Author Topic: Religion Dying in the US  (Read 405 times)

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Offline eyeball

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Re: Religion Dying in the US
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2020, 10:53:40 am »
We need a codified moral sphere, or a new shared morality embodied in a group of people or a movement.

What we really need are agreed upon facts embodied by reality.  The explosion of 'beliefs' populating the vacuum following the rise of atheism these days remind me of the explosions of diversity that mark the boundary between epochs. Hopefully they'll be short-lived but the capacity for self-delusion never mind the apparent willingness to be deluded by others seems ridiculously strong.
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Offline MH

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Re: Religion Dying in the US
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2020, 12:08:31 pm »
1. What we really need are agreed upon facts embodied by reality. 
2. The explosion of 'beliefs' populating the vacuum following the rise of atheism these days remind me of the explosions of diversity that mark the boundary between epochs.
3. Hopefully they'll be short-lived but the capacity for self-delusion never mind the apparent willingness to be deluded by others seems ridiculously strong.
1. That too.  But to agree on something it means to put yourself in a relationship of respect with others, and with authority also.
2. Covered here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OisdFRGlK-Y
3. Religion ostensibly had sky gods above... looking down on us... but the idiots actually never used to lie because they were ascared.

Offline Montgomery

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Re: Religion Dying in the US
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2020, 12:09:09 pm »
What we really need are agreed upon facts embodied by reality.  The explosion of 'beliefs' populating the vacuum following the rise of atheism these days remind me of the explosions of diversity that mark the boundary between epochs. Hopefully they'll be short-lived but the capacity for self-delusion never mind the apparent willingness to be deluded by others seems ridiculously strong.

Highly intelligent people aren't being deluded by others of less intelligence. They're already indoctrinated into being believers as children who didn't have the mental capacity to avoid it. They are imprinted with religious beliefs for life, just as a baby duckling will be imprinted with the belief that the Fox is it's mother if the duckling see the fox before seeing it's real mother.

When parents stop the child abuse of brainwashing children, religious beliefs will come much closer to dying out.

Christianity can't save itself by rewriting their bibles to suit modern day understanding. An attempt at doing that would blow their cover.
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline wilber

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Re: Religion Dying in the US
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2020, 12:17:37 pm »
Some people come to religion later in life. If it makes someone's life better I don't have a problem with it, as long as it doesn't try and dictate how I live.
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Offline MH

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Re: Religion Dying in the US
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2020, 12:29:12 pm »
Some people come to religion later in life. If it makes someone's life better I don't have a problem with it, as long as it doesn't try and dictate how I live.

I don't think it makes you good or bad, but it's an auto-pilot form of morality for the gullible, IMO.  So there's some utility in it.

Offline wilber

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Re: Religion Dying in the US
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2020, 12:38:36 pm »
I don't think it makes you good or bad, but it's an auto-pilot form of morality for the gullible, IMO.  So there's some utility in it.

I guess it can be but generalizations rarely really explain anything.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline MH

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Re: Religion Dying in the US
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2020, 12:40:29 pm »
I guess it can be but generalizations rarely really explain anything.

Generally true.

Offline Montgomery

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Re: Religion Dying in the US
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2020, 12:54:15 pm »
I don't think it makes you good or bad, but it's an auto-pilot form of morality for the gullible, IMO.  So there's some utility in it.

If you think religious people are gullible, you're not understanding religious indoctrination at childhood. Believe me, there are nuclear physicists who are deeply religious.

It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline MH

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Re: Religion Dying in the US
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2020, 01:08:16 pm »
1. If you think religious people are gullible   
2. Believe me, there are nuclear physicists who are deeply religious.
1. I didn't say that and I don't think that
2. I know - I just shot one in Tehran last week.
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Offline eyeball

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Re: Religion Dying in the US
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2020, 01:21:33 pm »
3. Religion ostensibly had sky gods above... looking down on us... but the idiots actually never used to lie because they were ascared.

Its interesting that the main impetus for becoming a "none" in the article you linked points to; One of the biggest demographic stories of the last few decades, the rise of the “nones” has been interpreted as a threat and as an inevitable reckoning for corrupt and scandal-ridden institutions driving millions of people out of churches across the country.

Seems clear to me the very same threat exists to the institution of government for the very same reason.
 
Speaking of 'looking down on people' and how beliefs shape our politics your observation is the fundamental basis for my belief that politicians and government should be under our constant sousveillance (the opposite of surveillance - viewing from below instead of above).  People are afraid of lying when they think they're being observed and I doubt the direction from which they're being observed would matter if they knew there'd be real consequences. That should be a pretty big take away from the demographic and political story the data and conclusions you've posted tell.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 01:25:29 pm by eyeball »

Offline MH

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Re: Religion Dying in the US
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2020, 01:42:48 pm »
 
Speaking of 'looking down on people' and how beliefs shape our politics your observation is the fundamental basis for my belief that politicians and government should be under our constant sousveillance (the opposite of surveillance - viewing from below instead of above).   

I remember this idea.  How about we just make everyone's bank account public when we introduce the new money system ?

Offline Montgomery

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Re: Religion Dying in the US
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2020, 01:51:32 pm »
1. I didn't say that and I don't think that
2. I know - I just shot one in Tehran last week.

Are you suggesting that you approve of political assassinations by the apartheid regime?

Quote
...............,]but it's an auto-pilot form of morality for the gullible, IMO.

It's just that it sounded so much like you were suggesting that religion is an auto-pilot form of morality for the gullible. But I guess it's possible that you didn't mean it that way?

Or maybe you didn't understand my point that religious people aren't necessarily gullible people. Some are highly intelligent and I feel safe in suggesting that most are as smart as you and some as smart or smarter than me.

It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline Omni

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Re: Religion Dying in the US
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2020, 01:57:17 pm »
Are you suggesting that you approve of political assassinations by the apartheid regime?

It's just that it sounded so much like you were suggesting that religion is an auto-pilot form of morality for the gullible. But I guess it's possible that you didn't mean it that way?

Or maybe you didn't understand my point that religious people aren't necessarily gullible people. Some are highly intelligent and I feel safe in suggesting that most are as smart as you and some as smart or smarter than me.

I suggest that most religious people, gullible as they are, will easily fulfill the tail end of your comments.

Offline MH

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Re: Religion Dying in the US
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2020, 02:03:11 pm »
1. Are you suggesting that you approve of political assassinations by the apartheid regime?

2. It's just that it sounded so much like you were suggesting that religion is an auto-pilot form of morality for the gullible. But I guess it's possible that you didn't mean it that way?

3. Or maybe you didn't understand my point that religious people aren't necessarily gullible people.

4. Some are highly intelligent and I feel safe in suggesting that most are as smart as you and some as smart or smarter than me.
1. I'm suggesting that I actually committed the act.
2. There are thinking people who are religious and they consider their morality and their acts carefully and heed the philosophy of the golden rule.  And there are people who don't steal because they are afraid satan will sodomize them in hell for eternity.
3. If religious meant gullible I wouldn't have to guess which one you are.
4. I TOLD you I shot one in cold blood in Tehran.    I don't know how smart I am but I'm good at close range with a Webley Bulldog Revolver.
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Offline Montgomery

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Re: Religion Dying in the US
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2020, 03:04:41 pm »
1. I'm suggesting that I actually committed the act.
2. There are thinking people who are religious and they consider their morality and their acts carefully and heed the philosophy of the golden rule.  And there are people who don't steal because they are afraid satan will sodomize them in hell for eternity.
3. If religious meant gullible I wouldn't have to guess which one you are.
4. I TOLD you I shot one in cold blood in Tehran.    I don't know how smart I am but I'm good at close range with a Webley Bulldog Revolver.

Having to correct your ignorance has hurt your feelings and the same with Omni. **** off and play in the traffic.
I have better things to do then play your childish games.
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.
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