Author Topic: Post US Election Transition Culture  (Read 18378 times)

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Offline eyeball

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Re: Post US Election Transition Culture
« Reply #360 on: January 07, 2021, 12:34:39 am »
Now we're up to four people killed in the Capitol today. Imagine laying down your life in service of a fat old huckster. How humiliating.
Yep, the Tree of Liberty really only needed to be dipped in **** this time. Its too bad people had to die as well.

Offline waldo

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Re: Post US Election Transition Culture
« Reply #361 on: January 07, 2021, 01:30:17 am »
As a "Conservative" I really enjoy following the Lincoln Project. A group of former Republicans who don't want to be associated with the Party of Trump. They're quite effective. Some have even become Democrats.
Counterpoint: they are useless grifters who did nothing but suck money away from actual Democrats. The Lincoln Project raised $67 million. 93% of Republicans voted for Trump in 2020, up from 90% in 2016.

across an assortment of threads, I've previously linked to several Lincoln Project vids; even if their only Trump skewering impact was to create a waldo warm-fuzzy... seeing their direct impact on Trump and watching him twitter implode was priceless!

the grifter tag seems to have originated from Glenn Greenwald... that preening self-proclaimed progressive (who isn't). Of course that's been propagated many times over by anti-anti-Trump types. And yes, they've raised a shyte-load of money - and spent a ton mostly on Presidential focused ad buys (although, as I read, they did take significant plays into Senate runs across 5 States). And then there's the 'speculation' over Lincoln Media and where that may go - even though several of the LP members walked away from the Republican Trump Party, if they, overall, retain their underlying conservative bent, they may end up as a major future irritant to Democrats.

as for the influence of the Lincoln Project, the following opinion piece (from Max Boot) may just be a smattering of factual data with a twist of self-promotion: Never Trumpers played a critical role in beating him. The numbers prove it.

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But both the Lincoln Project and Republican Voters Against Trump (RVAT), the other major Never Trump organization, shared with me preliminary data to show that their work actually played a critical role in Biden’s victory. Their numbers are in line with publicly available exit polls showing that nationally 7 percent of 2016 Trump voters and 8 percent of Republican or Republican-leaning voters backed Biden. The share of independent and moderate voters supporting the Democratic nominee also increased from 42 percent of independents and 52 percent of moderates in 2016 to 54 percent of independents and 64 percent of moderates in 2020. Currently, Biden is leading in the popular vote by 3.4 percentage points.

The Lincoln Project contends that 85 percent of the counties it targeted in 10 states moved away from Trump — and that doesn’t even include Arizona, where ballots are still being counted and endorsements from Republicans such as Cindy McCain undoubtedly contributed to Biden’s lead. The Lincoln Project concludes that, across the top battleground states, Biden flipped an average of 6.8 percent of voters who cast a Trump ballot in 2016. Nationally, it believes, 5 percent of voters who voted for a Republican congressional candidate voted for Biden.

In the battleground states, Lincoln Project asserts that 7 percent of 2016 Trump voters switched to Biden in Pennsylvania, 6 percent in Michigan, 7 percent in Wisconsin and 6 percent in Georgia. The swings among independent voters, moderate voters and college-educated White voters away from Trump were even bigger in some cases. Given the narrowness of the outcome in these battleground states (Biden’s biggest margin so far is a 2.6-point win in Michigan), those numbers, if accurate, suggest that Republican and Republican-leaning voters helped deliver the election to Biden.

today's Lincoln Project vid:

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Post US Election Transition Culture
« Reply #362 on: January 07, 2021, 01:41:39 am »
For all the enablers that said "well, he's crass and I don't like him but I like his policies"... now you see why character is pretty f*cking important.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Post US Election Transition Culture
« Reply #363 on: January 07, 2021, 10:16:39 am »
across an assortment of threads, I've previously linked to several Lincoln Project vids; even if their only Trump skewering impact was to create a waldo warm-fuzzy... seeing their direct impact on Trump and watching him twitter implode was priceless!

the grifter tag seems to have originated from Glenn Greenwald... that preening self-proclaimed progressive (who isn't). Of course that's been propagated many times over by anti-anti-Trump types. And yes, they've raised a shyte-load of money - and spent a ton mostly on Presidential focused ad buys (although, as I read, they did take significant plays into Senate runs across 5 States). And then there's the 'speculation' over Lincoln Media and where that may go - even though several of the LP members walked away from the Republican Trump Party, if they, overall, retain their underlying conservative bent, they may end up as a major future irritant to Democrats.

A big part of the LP grift was to launder the reputations of the people who helped pave the way for Trump but who don't want to take responsibility for that.

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as for the influence of the Lincoln Project, the following opinion piece (from Max Boot) may just be a smattering of factual data with a twist of self-promotion.

Counterpoint

Couple of other things: there's a big difference between "never Trump Republicans tilted the election for biden" and "the Lincoln Project was effective at tilting never Trump Republicans to Biden".

However both claims run into the cold hard numbers in an election where Trump (a historically unpopular president) increased both his total votes and his share of Republican voters.


Offline Boges

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Re: Post US Election Transition Culture
« Reply #364 on: January 07, 2021, 10:39:02 am »
However both claims run into the cold hard numbers in an election where Trump (a historically unpopular president) increased both his total votes and his share of Republican voters.

Do you not want to entertain the fact that Republicans left the party and that gives the illusion that Trump has an iron-clad control of Conservatives.

We also have entertain the idea that some people just vote for their "team".

As an example, I don't like DoFo all that much. But I wasn't going to go out there and vote for Kathleen Wynne. 


Offline Black Dog

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Re: Post US Election Transition Culture
« Reply #365 on: January 07, 2021, 10:49:52 am »
Do you not want to entertain the fact that Republicans left the party and that gives the illusion that Trump has an iron-clad control of Conservatives.

That's not a fact, that's a claim you're making without evidence of that being a factor of any significance.

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We also have entertain the idea that some people just vote for their "team".

As an example, I don't like DoFo all that much. But I wasn't going to go out there and vote for Kathleen Wynne.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here: "Sure they voted for trump, but they didn't actually like him?" Who cares! They still ticked that box!

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Offline Boges

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Re: Post US Election Transition Culture
« Reply #366 on: January 07, 2021, 11:01:17 am »
That's not a fact, that's a claim you're making without evidence of that being a factor of any significance.

Member waldo did provide some evidence that the LP did have an effect. Note that their campaign was very targeted. Their goal was to get Trump defeated, not wholesale changing of hearts and minds.

I'm sure you don't want to give them a Gold Star for their efforts, but just recognize that Trumpism isn't immediately analogous to Conservatism.

Conservatives can work to defeat Trump without partnering with Democrats.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 11:03:25 am by Boges »

Offline eyeball

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Re: Post US Election Transition Culture
« Reply #367 on: January 07, 2021, 11:25:15 am »
Trumpism isn't immediately analogous to Conservatism.
It's the other way around, Trump is an effect of conservatism.  This spectacle has been building for decades.
 
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Conservatives can work to defeat Trump without partnering with Democrats.
Not without wrecking the GOP too hopefully.  America is plenty right-wing enough under the Democrats, Republicans are overkill.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Post US Election Transition Culture
« Reply #368 on: January 07, 2021, 11:29:16 am »
Member waldo did provide some evidence that the LP did have an effect. Note that their campaign was very targeted. Their goal was to get Trump defeated, not wholesale changing of hearts and minds.

I'm sure you don't want to give them a Gold Star for their efforts, but just recognize that Trumpism isn't immediately analogous to Conservatism.

Conservatives can work to defeat Trump without partnering with Democrats.

I would argue that Trump is the logical endpoint of where conservatism has been heading for the last 20 years (some would say longer). One could even argue that you can find historical antecedents for Trump on the right throughout US history from Goldwater and the Birchers back to the Reconstruction south. Trumpism is simply conservatism saying the quiet parts out loud.
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guest78

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Re: Post US Election Transition Culture
« Reply #369 on: January 07, 2021, 12:27:28 pm »
Remember when leftists stormed the capital during the Kavanaugh hearings?  And nobody said anything.

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guest78

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Re: Post US Election Transition Culture
« Reply #370 on: January 07, 2021, 12:27:54 pm »
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guest78

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Re: Post US Election Transition Culture
« Reply #371 on: January 07, 2021, 12:28:20 pm »
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guest78

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Re: Post US Election Transition Culture
« Reply #372 on: January 07, 2021, 12:29:56 pm »
You reap what you sow.  If you’re going to support political violence and/or contesting election results in the past, don’t be surprised when people learn from your example and build on it.  You’re all flaming bags of hypocrisy.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Post US Election Transition Culture
« Reply #373 on: January 07, 2021, 12:30:13 pm »
Remember when leftists stormed the capital during the Kavanaugh hearings?  And nobody said anything.


Did they break any windows, trash any offices and **** in any trashcans?


Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Post US Election Transition Culture
« Reply #374 on: January 07, 2021, 12:30:25 pm »
The system is also broken....   

When shithole states like Wyoming get the same representation as the 35 million people in California, it skews the Senate towards the group from the low-population, conservative, extremely religious backwaters.  They get an amount of political power and influence that is disproportionate to their actual place in the country. 

This allows them to also get president selected with less than the popular vote, and they can be propped up by the senate. 

There goes the “checks and balances”.
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