Author Topic: Modern-day lynching  (Read 224 times)

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Offline Omni

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Re: Modern-day lynching
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2020, 01:32:36 pm »
The black guy may or may not have been up to no good.  Apparently he had peeked into another house before peeked into the one caught on video.  Maybe he did nothing wrong. Maybe he was jogging, maybe he was running away (joggers usually don't wear khaki shorts...but maybe this guy does who knows).  The older white guy, ex-cop, had been on an investigation of this same guy back when he was still a cop.

The main moral here is this is why you don't don't take the law into your own hands.  If you suspect law-breaking, you call the cops, you don't chase the guy with a gun and confront them.  The ex-cop should have known this.  Same thing happened in the Trayvon Martin case.

The mix of gun loving and race hating makes America a dangerous place. And there's nothing much new in that scenario.

Offline the_squid

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Re: Modern-day lynching
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2020, 01:32:56 pm »
The black guy may or may not have been up to no good.  Apparently he had peeked into another house before peeked into the one caught on video. 

No evidence that he was “peaking into houses”. 

He looked in a construction site. 

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Maybe he did nothing wrong. Maybe he was jogging, maybe he was running away (joggers usually don't wear khaki shorts...but maybe this guy does who knows). 

Running away from what exactly?  There’s no evidence that he did anything....

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The older white guy, ex-cop, had been on an investigation of this same guy back when he was still a cop.

Cite.

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The main moral here is this is why you don't don't take the law into your own hands.  If you suspect law-breaking, you call the cops, you don't chase the guy with a gun and confront them.  The ex-cop should have known this.  Same thing happened in the Trayvon Martin case.

Why would an ex-cop know this?  What if the ex-cop thought this was exactly what he should do....  what he was trained to do...  and what he did during his whole career.  Maybe he was just a really sh!tty person and a cop.

Offline Shady

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Re: Modern-day lynching
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2020, 02:56:13 pm »
The mix of gun loving and race hating makes America a dangerous place. And there's nothing much new in that scenario.
Complete nonsense.  If you want real danger, go live in Mexico.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Modern-day lynching
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2020, 03:34:28 pm »
No evidence that he was “peaking into houses”. 

He looked in a construction site.

Well, he's seen going onto someone's private property and going inside a house under construction and looking around.  But nothing illegal with that.

https://youtu.be/NAVzFTnUmNo?t=45

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Cite.

"When Mr Arbery was in high school, he received five years probation for a first-time weapons charge and in 2018, was convicted of probation violation for shop lifting according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution newspaper.  Mr McMichael was reportedly involved in that 2018 case."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52623151

"In his letter of recusal to Georgia Attorney General Chris Carr, Waycross Judicial Circuit District Attorney George Barnhill wrote that his son, a prosecutor in the Brunswick DA’s office, and McMichael, then an investigator in that same office, “both helped with the previous prosecution of (Ahmaud) Arbery.”

McMichael, a former Glynn County cop, told Glynn police he recognized Arbery, 25, from surveillance video that captured a recent burglary in his mostly white neighborhood. He said he planned to make a citizen’s arrest.

When he was in high school, Arbery was sentenced to five years probation as a first offender on charges of carrying a weapon on campus and several counts of obstructing a law enforcement officer. He was convicted of probation violation in 2018 after he was charged with shoplifting, court documents show."


https://www.ajc.com/news/local/brunswick-attorney-released-the-video-arbery-shooting/JkpbvTuJt9wfl3tkcLTTvO/

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Why would an ex-cop know this?  What if the ex-cop thought this was exactly what he should do....  what he was trained to do...  and what he did during his whole career.  Maybe he was just a really sh!tty person and a cop.

Well, making a citizens arrest is legal in that state.  But I don't think they were out to arrest the guy, I think they were out to confront and question/investigate him because they thought he was involved in suspicious activity, especially since the white shooter was an ex-cop who apparently knew the victim as a previously convicted thief and of illegally carrying a gun, which is probably why they brought guns themselves.

Maybe the victim is innocent and did no wrong that day before the confrontation, but he also wasn't an angel.  This case isn't as cut-and-dry and you make it seem, and it wasn't a "lynching".  It also looks like shots weren't fired until the victim started running towards the shooter, and then more shots fired when there was a struggle for the gun and the victim clearly punching the shooter in the head.  They didn't just chase him down and then gun him down in cold blood like you make out.

If you saw a young man with a criminal history of shoplifting & gun charges snooping on a neighbours property you'd be very suspicious too.  Doesn't mean it's smart to go pursue him with guns.  He should have called the cops, instead he stupidly thought he still was one.  Also, if you're a young black dude, don't run at white guy who has a gun pointed at you.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline Omni

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Re: Modern-day lynching
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2020, 03:44:12 pm »
Complete nonsense.  If you want real danger, go live in Mexico.

Your comment once again is complete nonsense. If you want real danger go to Chicago. It has over double the gun murder rate than Mexico City.

Offline Shady

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Re: Modern-day lynching
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2020, 04:00:54 pm »
Your comment once again is complete nonsense. If you want real danger go to Chicago. It has over double the gun murder rate than Mexico City.
As usual, you don't know what you're talking about.  In 2019. Mexico registered 35,000 homicides.  In 2019, the United States registered 17,000 homicides.  The United States has more than twice the population of Mexico.  Do you want me to calculate the homicide rate for you?  Or can you manage that yourself?
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Offline wilber

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Re: Modern-day lynching
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2020, 04:07:57 pm »
Another one.

https://www.insider.com/breonna-taylor-shot-dead-louisville-house-police-narcotics-bust-2020-5

Neither Taylor or her boyfriend had any criminal history and apparently the guy the cops were after was already in custody.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Modern-day lynching
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2020, 04:17:26 pm »
Another one.

https://www.insider.com/breonna-taylor-shot-dead-louisville-house-police-narcotics-bust-2020-5

Neither Taylor or her boyfriend had any criminal history and apparently the guy the cops were after was already in custody.

"The police said they returned fire after someone in the apartment shot at them, injuring an officer, The Associated Press reported."

There's always two sides to every story.  Which is why we have trials.   Which is why the court of public opinion is often BS.  Which is why "hands up, down don't shoot" was a lie and never actually happened as it turned out in court, and the Ferguson protests were BS based on a lie.  Doesn't mean police brutality and abuse doesn't happen, they happen a lot, but facts are facts, and some people don't like facts if it hurts their narrative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline wilber

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Re: Modern-day lynching
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2020, 04:24:40 pm »
"The police said they returned fire after someone in the apartment shot at them, injuring an officer, The Associated Press reported."

There's always two sides to every story.  Which is why we have trials.   Which is why the court of public opinion is often BS.  Which is why "hands up, down don't shoot" was a lie and never actually happened as it turned out in court, and the Ferguson protests were BS based on a lie.  Doesn't mean police brutality and abuse doesn't happen, they happen a lot, but facts are facts, and some people don't like facts if it hurts their narrative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown


Is there a record of that officer's injuries? The woman was shot eight times while she was lying in bed and one shot went through a 5 year old's bedroom in another home. I'm very pro police but these guys were out of control.
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Offline the_squid

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Re: Modern-day lynching
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2020, 04:42:20 pm »
Well, he's seen going onto someone's private property and going inside a house under construction and looking around.  But nothing illegal with that.

Just the other day I walked onto a lot to check out the view of a home that is under construction.   Should I have been shot??  That’s sheer idiocy that this was even a thing.  The homeowner said that the guy did nothing wrong (and now he’s getting threats made against him....)
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Maybe the victim is innocent and did no wrong that day before the confrontation, but he also wasn't an angel.  This case isn't as cut-and-dry and you make it seem, and it wasn't a "lynching". 


So please tell us...  what did he do wrong that would lead to needing to be shot?   Let’s not bring up the high school stupidity.  No one deserves to be shot because they did bad things as a teenager.  And try not to say stupid things like “he has a criminal history”.  He was caught for shoplifting as a teen.  And if a murderer says he investigated him years ago for something more serious, you may want to back it up with something other than the murderer’s say-so.

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It also looks like shots weren't fired until the victim started running towards the shooter, and then more shots fired when there was a struggle for the gun and the victim clearly punching the shooter in the head.  They didn't just chase him down and then gun him down in cold blood like you make out.

They chased him down in a truck with their guns out.  Should he not try and fight back if thinks he has a chance to live? 

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Also, if you're a young black dude, don't run at white guy who has a gun pointed at you.

Get on your knees and beg?  Maybe he saw the chance to actually live if he fought back.

You need to stop victim-blaming...  and ask yourself why you’re doing that.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Modern-day lynching
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2020, 04:49:54 pm »

Is there a record of that officer's injuries? The woman was shot eight times while she was lying in bed and one shot went through a 5 year old's bedroom in another home. I'm very pro police but these guys were out of control.

Well again, that's why we have trials.  There's always a ton of evidence and witnesses and different sides to sift through.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline the_squid

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Re: Modern-day lynching
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2020, 04:57:23 pm »
Well again, that's why we have trials.  There's always a ton of evidence and witnesses and different sides to sift through.

So you know of nothing that the black guy did wrong...   and yet you say that it’s not cut and dry.... 

So could any shooting of a black person be “cut and dry” to you?  Is there always some justification?  “Maybe he was a bad teenager”....   “Maybe he peeped into a house earlier”....   “Maybe he trespassed earlier”....  “Maybe the black guy ran at the guy holding a gun on him”....

Do you really not see how these are astonishingly stupid reasons for someone to shoot that person?

Offline wilber

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Re: Modern-day lynching
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2020, 05:04:26 pm »
Well again, that's why we have trials.  There's always a ton of evidence and witnesses and different sides to sift through.

The woman who got shot didn't get a trial. The link I posted was a month after the incident, this was going to be hushed up if it wasn't for people making a stink. Now maybe there will be a trial. These two had no criminal history, it's not like they had a reason think police might be breaking down their door in the middle of the night. The guy the cops were after was already in a cell. What a royal fuck up.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Modern-day lynching
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2020, 05:18:40 pm »
Just the other day I walked onto a lot to check out the view of a home that is under construction.   Should I have been shot??  That’s sheer idiocy that this was even a thing.  The homeowner said that the guy did nothing wrong (and now he’s getting threats made against him....)

I already said no he shouldn't have been shot, the shooter and his son were stupid, and yes it is sheer idiocy that this confrontation even happened.

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So please tell us...  what did he do wrong that would lead to needing to be shot?   Let’s not bring up the high school stupidity.  No one deserves to be shot because they did bad things as a teenager.  And try not to say stupid things like “he has a criminal history”.  He was caught for shoplifting as a teen.  And if a murderer says he investigated him years ago for something more serious, you may want to back it up with something other than the murderer’s say-so.

I never said he needed to be shot.  That's a strawman.  What i'm saying is there are some bad decisions made here that led to him being shot.  The worst decision by far was private citizens confronting him with guns.  Another bad decision was the victim charging the guy with the gun, even after shooter allegedly said "stop".  This wasn't a cold-blooded murder, it was a few very bad decisions with guns involved leading to a homicide.  Obviously the guys with the guns are much more to blame here.

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They chased him down in a truck with their guns out.  Should he not try and fight back if thinks he has a chance to live?

Get on your knees and beg?  Maybe he saw the chance to actually live if he fought back.

He probably had a gun pointed right at him.  He didn't know these guys, he didn't know that guy was an ex-cop.  He made a split-second decision.  It was the wrong decision.  If he had just put his hands up he almost certainly wouldn't have been shot.  Maybe you and I would have made the same decision he did.

I'm not saying he's at fault, i'm saying his actions contributed to his death.  You have a right to defend yourself, yes.  He had every right to charge the guy with the gun who was pointing it at him for apparently no good reason.  On the other hand, the shooter did say "stop" when being charged (allegedly) and then shot him.  So in a way he was defending himself too, especially after getting punched in the head by the victim.  As I said, this isn't such a cut-and-dry case.  The key is the confrontation shouldn't have happened in the first place.

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You need to stop victim-blaming...  and ask yourself why you’re doing that.

I'm not blaming the victim, I've said repeatedly that the shooters are certainly at the most at fault here. I'm trying to point out to you the other side of the story and what was likely going through the head of the guys with the guns.  I don't think they're evil, I think they made some dumb and aggressive decisions.  Pull a gun on a guy and don't be surprised if he charges you.  Charge a guy with a gun, don't be surprised if he shoots you.  The key again, don't make this a situation in the first place, that's on the shooter.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019
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Offline the_squid

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Re: Modern-day lynching
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2020, 05:25:14 pm »
So in a way he was defending himself too, especially after getting punched in the head by the victim.  As I said, this isn't such a cut-and-dry case.  The key is the confrontation shouldn't have happened in the first place.

Then, in the next sentence:
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I'm not blaming the victim, ...

Wow...   just wow.  If you try and defend yourself, that means the guy with the gun was also defending himself.   That has to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. 

“Well...   she WAS wearing a really short skirt...”.