Author Topic: Inheritance  (Read 1602 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: Inheritance
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2019, 02:29:58 pm »
The buy expensive artwork and destroy it. By gold and dump it in the ocean. No one has to destroy physical money to get rid of it.

Destroying rare artwork should be a crime, dumping gold in the ocean will attract treasure hunters which might actually redistribute wealth to someone who worked for it.
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Offline TimG

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Re: Inheritance
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2019, 02:38:51 pm »
Destroying rare artwork should be a crime, dumping gold in the ocean will attract treasure hunters which might actually redistribute wealth to someone who worked for it.
But destroying personal property it isn't a crime unless an insurance claim is made and gold can be dumped in places that it would never be economic to recover. I am sure there are other ways to destroy wealth if someone was motivated. Most people won't but if taxes get too high I could see some people doing it to spite the government.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Inheritance
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2019, 03:40:44 pm »
The buy expensive artwork and destroy it. By gold and dump it in the ocean. No one has to destroy physical money to get rid of it.

The money is still in circulation then.

Offline TimG

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Re: Inheritance
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2019, 04:06:52 pm »
The money is still in circulation then.
Is someone destroys an asset that would be taxed when it is given to heir then the government is denied the opportunity to tax that asset and value is destroyed. If someone simply wasted the money so they were left with no assets then you could argue that the tax accomplished its objective by 'spreading the wealth'.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Inheritance
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2019, 06:30:57 pm »
Laws that favour wealth being passed down will eventually lead to your country being another aristocracy and not a meritocracy.

Aristocracy is government run by a small elite (incl. wealthy) ruling class.  I don't think many wants this.  That's why we need extremely tough rules on political donations, campaigning, lobbying etc.
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Inheritance
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2019, 06:37:21 pm »
Aristocracy is government run by a small elite (incl. wealthy) ruling class.  I don't think many wants this.  That's why we need extremely tough rules on political donations, campaigning, lobbying etc.

A country is not just its government.  Having its economy commanded by descendents of smart people may not be the best idea either.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Inheritance
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2019, 06:50:58 pm »
You don't think that a well funded, comprehensive social safety net will help anyone?

I think people do want that.  I also think people generally think it's a good idea to have rich people pay more of the share, and the super rich pay even more, while the poor pay the least.

The problem is that once you start taking too much money from ie: the super rich, these people will see other countries/jurisdictions that aren't taking their money and they will move there, or park their money there.

One of the reasons communist countries ban people from leaving is because many people with money or the ability to make money want to leave.  Communist countries build walls to keep desireabale people in, capitalist countries build walls to keep undesireable people out.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Inheritance
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2019, 07:08:00 pm »
Giving extra billions to people who have no clue isn't a good allocation of resources.  Instead of the money being used to improve roads, communication, education or health it's used to fund extinct animal safaris and sending billionaires on tourist space trips.  When it's all done there's nothing to show for it.

That's not accurate.  First off, we're not talking about "giving extra billions to people", we're talking about either letting them keep what they already have or taking it (stealing it) from them.

Also, people with billions can only consume so much.  I doubt the lifestyles of someone with 50 million is much different than someone with 50 billion.  You can only live in so many houses, drive so many cars, eat so much food, go on so many animal safaris and space trips.  Most of their money is invested in their company and/or the stock market, funding companies to invest in productivity & innovation etc.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Inheritance
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2019, 07:21:05 pm »
A country is not just its government.  Having its economy commanded by descendents of smart people may not be the best idea either.

Ok if we're really talking meritocracy, then the obvious conclusion is if Jeff Bezos died tomorrow, instead of giving his billions to his kids we'd give it to the smartest people. That's not the government, and it's not poor people.  His billions should go to ie: Warren Buffet, because he's the greatest allocator of resources to ever live.

You and I are squabbling over who should get the resources, but who are we and what are our qualifications to decide this?  We've accomplished jack ****.  Who are politicians to decide this?  If we want a meritocracy, shouldn't we be making a system to have the best decision-makers and resource allocators (ie: the very wealthy) in charge of how government should spend its money?  Or would that just make them richer?
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Inheritance
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2019, 07:56:07 pm »
That's not accurate.  First off, we're not talking about "giving extra billions to people", we're talking about either letting them keep what they already have or taking it (stealing it) from them.

Taxation is theft right ?  Let's leave the morality for now and talk about it in terms of utility.   After all, when people talk about what's wrong with Communism the first thing they say is "it doesn't work".

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Also, people with billions can only consume so much.  I doubt the lifestyles of someone with 50 million is much different than someone with 50 billion.  You can only live in so many houses, drive so many cars, eat so much food, go on so many animal safaris and space trips.  Most of their money is invested in their company and/or the stock market, funding companies to invest in productivity & innovation etc.

Sure but they are still defacto leaders and allocators of resources.  It makes sense for people to keep what they have earned as it creates a meritocracy and offers incentives.

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Ok if we're really talking meritocracy, then the obvious conclusion is if Jeff Bezos died tomorrow, instead of giving his billions to his kids we'd give it to the smartest people. That's not the government, and it's not poor people.  His billions should go to ie: Warren Buffet, because he's the greatest allocator of resources to ever live.

But bugget has his billions.  We could best use it to create a better environment for current & future entrepreneurs.

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You and I are squabbling over who should get the resources, but who are we and what are our qualifications to decide this?

We talk about everything on here.  If it was about what we're qualified to talk about, I would have: acting, math, project management and improv.

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  We've accomplished jack ****.  Who are politicians to decide this?  If we want a meritocracy, shouldn't we be making a system to have the best decision-makers and resource allocators (ie: the very wealthy) in charge of how government should spend its money?  Or would that just make them richer?

Government just sets the rules for the gaem.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Inheritance
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2019, 08:30:26 pm »
But bugget has his billions.  We could best use it to create a better environment for current & future entrepreneurs.

The best way to do that is for smart people to invest money in smart entrepreneurs.  Government and poor people with no business sense can't do that remotely as well.

Anyways, what do you think would happen if there was a massive inheritance tax? I think the super rich would just start giving it away before they die, or moving the money to other jurisdictions.  I could see billionaires giving the money away to people in the poorest countries.  Government wouldn't want that capital flight either.
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Offline TimG

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Re: Inheritance
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2019, 10:46:30 pm »
Aristocracy is government run by a small elite (incl. wealthy) ruling class.  I don't think many wants this.  That's why we need extremely tough rules on political donations, campaigning, lobbying etc.
Except this always ends up happening no matter what the system: communism, theocracy, fascism, whatever: you always see the government influenced by a relatively small group of elites. The problem that needs to be addressed is social mobility because with social mobility you can have fairness with a system that can never ensure equality.

Now there are good arguments that a large concentration of wealth in a few hands hinders social mobility but that does not mean simply redistributing the money will fix the real issue. If policies are to be changed the changes must emphasis dealing with the social mobility and helping those that are willing to help themselves.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Inheritance
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2019, 05:52:13 am »
How about making the rules of the game such that rewards the wealthy for investing in innovation rather than just sitting on their wealth ? 

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Inheritance
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2019, 09:16:05 am »
Correct. At least not in Canada.
That's not actually true.

Say someone is on disability and they inherit $100,000. It counts as income and if they receive a lump sum, their disability benefit will be stopped until they exhaust the inheritance.

It counts as income.

Also, if part of the inheritance is an RRSP, it's not transferred to the beneficiary. It's withdrawn and the deceased pays taxes on it before it goes to the beneficiary. You also need to claim it on your income tax at the end of the year. Now whether there's a direct tax on the inheritance or what, I'm not entirely sure yet, but the government does withhold a portion of it.

Offline Rue

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Re: Inheritance
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2019, 09:57:13 am »
Inheritance kills meritocracy and establishes a new kind of aristocracy. Discuss.

https://www.salon.com/2014/03/24/death_of_meritocracy_how_inheritance_is_poisoning_the_american_economy/

No I will not. What people inherit from their loved ones is not my business or yours.
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