Author Topic: Ghost Guns  (Read 382 times)

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Offline Omni

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Ghost Guns
« on: July 31, 2018, 12:49:16 pm »
As if guns weren't prolific enough in the US already. This is scary ****.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/31/us/3d-printed-plastic-guns/index.html

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Offline Omni

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2018, 08:58:52 pm »
Just listened to an interview on CNN with Allan Gottlieb. Holy cow what a freaks show. I hope he is the first to get shot with one of his 3d downloadable guns. I'm gonna pop some corn and wait 'till the gun nuttz get another 9-11 happening.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2018, 05:59:24 am »
Trump called the NRA first to ask for advice.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2018, 11:19:13 am »
Well at first I was shocked.  Then some news source explained the guns need some metal parts to work and these plastic guns are poor quality that often disintegrate/break after a single use because they're, well, plastic.  The machines to print them are also insanely expensive, so at this moment this isn't really an issue because few people would realistically bother with this process.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2018, 12:30:35 pm »
Well at first I was shocked.  Then some news source explained the guns need some metal parts to work and these plastic guns are poor quality that often disintegrate/break after a single use because they're, well, plastic.  The machines to print them are also insanely expensive, so at this moment this isn't really an issue because few people would realistically bother with this process.

It was also explained that the metal part can easily be removed so it becomes invisible to a metal detector and then reinstalled later. And, I thought the first lap top computer I bought was insanely expensive, not nowadays. And I don't think it's much of a stretch to imagine some gang guy getting the funding together and starting up a little 3D gun biz in his basement. The obvious point here is this system of availability  could pretty much gut any system of background checking/restrictions.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2018, 12:40:24 pm »
Quote
he machines to print them are also insanely expensive...

Not at all.

$1000 - $5000

Offline Omni

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2018, 12:46:22 pm »
Not at all.

$1000 - $5000

Alright then, I have some spare room in my basement.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2018, 12:27:08 pm »
Some random thoughts...

 -3d printers can be purchased for $500 or less.

 -building improvised firearms isn't new, and it isn't complicated. "zip guns" have been around for ages. 

 -this latest thing isn't even the first 3d printed firearm design to go around.  5 years ago a design called "Liberator" was circulated around the world on Bit Torrent.  It didn't lead to a rash of shootings. The "Liberator", in practice, was found to suck pretty bad.  Unreliable, inaccurate, and prone to break. 

 -gun-geeks, NRA types, mall-ninjas, and so on, have no interest in 3d printed guns.  Picture how Harley riders and custom motorcycle enthusiasts feel about motor-scooters, and that's about the way these guys guys would feel about 3d printed guns.

 -the NRA receives a lot of its cash from manufacturers, who would prefer that you buy their product than print your own.
 
 -regular street criminals would be unlikely to use a 3d printed gun. First off, they'd need something reliable. Second, they're not exactly known for their 3d printing skills. Third, they seem to have no trouble getting real actual firearms anyway.

 -even somebody who couldn't get their hands on a real gun would still be better off building a trusty "zip gun" than using a 3d printed gun.

 -so who would actually use a 3d printed gun? I think two distinct groups of people.  One, people who are really curious and interested in experimenting. 3d printing geeks, hobbiests, inventors, experimenters, this sort of thing. Somebody who has no interest in actually committing crimes, but is interested in the idea of trying to make this work.  The second group is people who would want a gun that is invisible to security measures.  Hijackers or somebody who wants to commit a murder inside a secured venue. This isn't going to be a "rampage" weapon... the shooter is likely to get one shot or less.

To summarize, I don't think this is actually anything to panic about.  Designs for more conventional improvised firearms are already available on the internet. Designs for bombs are available on the internet. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.  The availability of the information hasn't actually caused violence.    Like sales of dealcoholized beer or NDP memberships, widespread availability hasn't resulted in widespread demand.   People seeking a security-invisible gun may have a new option, but that's already an incredibly tiny market.

 -k
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2018, 01:00:30 pm »
I don't think this is actually anything to panic about.

I agree about today, or the near future. The real issue is technology is constantly improving, and when will it become viable to manufacture an untraceable and reliable weapon by someone with little knowledge. Gun smiths could manufacture them for decades, but they required a machine shop and skill.

The secondary, and more concerning issue is making weapons that can evade detection. By replacing metal with plastics, ceramic, or other materials they will be able to get through metal detectors easily. Additionally by disassembling the gun into component sub-assemblies they may be able to pass through x-ray machines without being recognized. The holy grail would be to completely eliminate all metal, but more practical would be to minimize it.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2018, 02:15:58 pm »
I agree about today, or the near future. The real issue is technology is constantly improving, and when will it become viable to manufacture an untraceable and reliable weapon by someone with little knowledge. Gun smiths could manufacture them for decades, but they required a machine shop and skill.

The possibility that unqualified people, especially criminals, will be able to obtain firearms has existed for a long time.  It's a concern, of course, but the resulting problems-- in this country at least-- have not been particularly severe.

The secondary, and more concerning issue is making weapons that can evade detection. By replacing metal with plastics, ceramic, or other materials they will be able to get through metal detectors easily. Additionally by disassembling the gun into component sub-assemblies they may be able to pass through x-ray machines without being recognized. The holy grail would be to completely eliminate all metal, but more practical would be to minimize it.

Even if somebody invents the "ghost gun", it's not much use without "ghost bullets".  Even if one supposes that something other than metal could be used for the bullet, the idea of a non-metallic casing is pretty far fetched.

 -k
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Offline Omni

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2018, 02:23:26 pm »
The possibility that unqualified people, especially criminals, will be able to obtain firearms has existed for a long time.  It's a concern, of course, but the resulting problems-- in this country at least-- have not been particularly severe.

Even if somebody invents the "ghost gun", it's not much use without "ghost bullets".  Even if one supposes that something other than metal could be used for the bullet, the idea of a non-metallic casing is pretty far fetched.

 -k

Ah, except you don't need "ghost bullets". An actual metal .357 works just fine.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2018, 02:28:04 pm »
Ah, except you don't need "ghost bullets". An actual metal .357 works just fine.

But hardly "detection proof."

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline Omni

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2018, 02:38:20 pm »
But hardly "detection proof."

 -k

Not "Detection proof" hopefully will keep them off planes. But it won't keep them out of nig nogs basements and therefore off the streets. You seem to be trying to make a case for plastic bullets as if these 3d's are just kids popguns. Sorry, that's not the reality.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2018, 02:44:36 pm »
Not "Detection proof" hopefully will keep them off planes. But it won't keep them out of nig nogs basements and therefore off the streets. You seem to be trying to make a case for plastic bullets as if these 3d's are just kids popguns. Sorry, that's not the reality.


Follow the thread.  Impact was proposing that the real danger is the possibility of a gun that can go through metal detectors easily.   Without non-metal bullets, that isn't really going to matter.

 -k
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Offline Omni

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2018, 02:58:46 pm »

Follow the thread.  Impact was proposing that the real danger is the possibility of a gun that can go through metal detectors easily.   Without non-metal bullets, that isn't really going to matter.

 -k

And bingo, right on time the TSA proposes stopping screening at 150 small or medium sized airports. ISIS buys a 3d printer....boom.