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Author Topic: Freedom of Speech  (Read 140 times)

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Offline Michael Hardner

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Freedom of Speech
« on: September 18, 2017, 05:38:54 pm »
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The man, approached the neo-Nazi and yelled at him to "get the **** out of our city." The neo-Nazi then called the man an "ape and threw a banana at him," Duff recalled. Within moments, another man ran from across the street and punched the neo-Nazi in the jaw, knocking him out.

Feel-good story+video+violence
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Freedom of Speech
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2017, 07:56:03 pm »
Quote from: MH on September 18, 2017, 05:38:54 pm
Feel-good story+video+violence


To paraphrase a gentleman in another video I recently posted "Discussion is why we don't resort to violence". Or to quote another "your freedom to express yourself ends at my nose".

Now I don't have much time for Nazis, but whatever moron titled this a 'feel good' story is clearly someone who doesn't understand or care about the implication of applauding a person getting punched out because  someone considers their words outrageous. I hope police find the guy who sucker punched him and I hope he goes to jail for a long time.
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guest7

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Re: Freedom of Speech
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2017, 08:12:46 pm »
If he threw a banana he could be said to have instigated the move from discussion to violence.  It might have been an over reaction, of course.

That said, as I read that I was applauding the decision of the courts in the UK not to charge a man with murder after he killed a burglar with his shotgun.
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guest7

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Re: Freedom of Speech
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2017, 08:13:46 pm »
Buthat's thread drift, of course.

What question is the OP asking, exactly?
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Freedom of Speech
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2017, 10:24:51 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on September 18, 2017, 07:56:03 pm
...doesn't understand or care about the implication of applauding a person getting punched out because  someone considers their words outrageous. I hope police find the guy who sucker punched him and I hope he goes to jail for a long time.

Funny you missed the part about this guy throwing things and intimidating people.  If this was a left wing nut instigating violence and getting punched out, i am guessing you would certainly be applauding the story. 
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Freedom of Speech
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2017, 05:36:49 am »
He threw a banana, thereby putting a toe over the line an invalidating the 'freedom of speech' point.  The 'feel good' tag is meant to be provocative, as I don't think this is a feel good story.  He was stupid, the response was out of scale, and how do we feel about what happened ?

Good ?

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Offline kimmy

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Re: Freedom of Speech
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2017, 09:10:53 am »
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United States

The fighting words doctrine, in United States constitutional law, is a limitation to freedom of speech as protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.

In 1942, the U.S. Supreme Court established the doctrine by a 9–0 decision in Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire. It held that "insulting or 'fighting words', those that by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace" are among the "well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech the prevention and punishment of [which] … have never been thought to raise any constitutional problem."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words

There are two key points here.

"...by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace"

There's a way to present controversial ideas for discussion.  Hucking a banana at a black man isn't it.  Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

"well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech the prevention and punishment of [which] … have never been thought to raise any constitutional problem"

Kid Nazi wasn't going to be reciting any Rimbaud here. Nothing of value is being suppressed when somebody gets punched in the face for calling someone of African ancestry a monkey.

 -k
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Freedom of Speech
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2017, 09:31:33 am »
Quote from: the_squid on September 18, 2017, 10:24:51 pm
Funny you missed the part about this guy throwing things and intimidating people.  If this was a left wing nut instigating violence and getting punched out, i am guessing you would certainly be applauding the story.

Your guesses, like most of your opinions and beliefs, are wrong. And I can only go by what I saw in the video, which is some uninvolved guy coming over while the Nazi was talking and punching him in the face.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Freedom of Speech
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2017, 09:36:38 am »
Quote from: kimmy on September 19, 2017, 09:10:53 am
There's a way to present controversial ideas for discussion.  Hucking a banana at a black man isn't it.  Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

And if he chucked a banana at a Black guy and the Black guy punched him out I would feel the Black guy had that right. But the guy he threw the banana at was White and had just told him to 'get the **** out of our city'.

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Kid Nazi wasn't going to be reciting any Rimbaud here. Nothing of value is being suppressed

In this case I agree. However, the problem lies in the inability of many, many people to make that distinction. Who gets to decide what speech is valuable? Berkeley had to spend $600,000 and rescind a decades old prohibition on the police using pepper spray in order to allow Ben Shapiro to have a discussion in an auditorium on the weekend. Shapiro is, as you might guess from the name, Jewish, and while he's conservative is not a fan of Trump or the alt-right (nor vice versa). He's still often called a fascist for his views by people who mostly don't know what the word even means.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 09:38:17 am by SirJohn »
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"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Super Colin Blow

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Re: Freedom of Speech
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2017, 06:12:34 pm »
The fighting words doctrine is no longer operative in American constitutional law.
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WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
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