Author Topic: Does America Still Believe in the Right to be Wrong ?  (Read 229 times)

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Offline MH

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Does America Still Believe in the Right to be Wrong ?
« on: September 27, 2017, 06:13:15 pm »
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/451825/free-speech-america-right-to-be-wrong-endangered

Interesting parallels between culture wars and wars of religion.  But how to solve them ?  Politics is decimated, broken beyond repair.  What can be done to rebuild trust ?

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to be Wrong ?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2017, 06:25:16 pm »
Never shut-up.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to be Wrong ?
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2017, 12:26:30 pm »
The US Supreme court broke politics when it opened the floodgates to money. Now candidates don't have to care if the party is against them since they have ready sources of cash from every lunatic group out there. The Supreme Court is also responsible for ignoring blatant gerrymandering of congressional districts, which ensures candidates don't really have to worry about elections any more.

And unlike our parties there is no veto by the party leader over prospective candidates down there. Which is why you get moronic candidates like that cowboy in Alabama.

They need to get the money out of politics. When you need $15 million to run a campaign you have to sell yourself to the big money interests or just not bother to run. They need to stop the gerrymandering so congressmen are more wary about what their district might feel about an issue. And the Republicans in particular, need to stop loonies from running under their party banner.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Super Colin Blow

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to be Wrong ?
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 07:41:41 am »
And unlike our parties there is no veto by the party leader over prospective candidates down there. Which is why you get moronic candidates like that cowboy in Alabama.

They need to get the money out of politics. When you need $15 million to run a campaign you have to sell yourself to the big money interests or just not bother to run. They need to stop the gerrymandering so congressmen are more wary about what their district might feel about an issue. And the Republicans in particular, need to stop loonies from running under their party banner.

I cannot IMAGINE the party leader having so much power that he or she could boot people off the ballot.  That to me is a ridiculous feature in the Canadian system of government which, otherwise, isn't all that bad.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to be Wrong ?
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 11:20:49 am »
I cannot IMAGINE the party leader having so much power that he or she could boot people off the ballot.  That to me is a ridiculous feature in the Canadian system of government which, otherwise, isn't all that bad.

The Republican party is becoming ridiculous because of all the cranks and lunatics which are are crowding in through those open doors, unconstrained by any ability of the party to keep them out. Roy Moore in Alabama being just the latest crank to join the ranks.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Blueblood

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to be Wrong ?
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2017, 01:47:59 am »
Donít worry the DNCís has their gems too

Offline MH

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to be Wrong ?
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2017, 08:28:20 am »
Donít worry the DNCís has their gems too

Yes, but you couldn't get an Al Sharpton nominated to run for Senate...

On the other hand, a far-left socialist WOULD have won the nomination if not for the emergency brake mechanisms that put Hillary in the drivers seat.

Offline Blueblood

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to be Wrong ?
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2017, 09:01:22 am »
Yes, but you couldn't get an Al Sharpton nominated to run for Senate...

On the other hand, a far-left socialist WOULD have won the nomination if not for the emergency brake mechanisms that put Hillary in the drivers seat.

I would say not only does that far left socialist have a shot at winning the 2020 nomination, he has a shot at the whitehouse in 2020 if he can stay alive and with it and the republicans continue being stalled with not getting legislation passed.

Offline MH

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to be Wrong ?
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2017, 09:06:09 am »
I would say not only does that far left socialist have a shot at winning the 2020 nomination, he has a shot at the whitehouse in 2020 if he can stay alive and with it and the republicans continue being stalled with not getting legislation passed.

You know... all of us left of centres would probably be happy to see Bernie win but it wouldn't be much more successful than a Trump presidency in terms of major legislation passed.  Congress is owned and there isn't a way to eliminate the link between government and the super-wealthy. 

He wouldn't get anything passed. 

Hillary Clinton at least could have brokered deals and third ways.  Cynical times require cynical politicians, maybe.

Offline Blueblood

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to be Wrong ?
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2017, 09:55:14 am »
You know... all of us left of centres would probably be happy to see Bernie win but it wouldn't be much more successful than a Trump presidency in terms of major legislation passed.  Congress is owned and there isn't a way to eliminate the link between government and the super-wealthy. 

He wouldn't get anything passed. 

Hillary Clinton at least could have brokered deals and third ways.  Cynical times require cynical politicians, maybe.

Iíd say congress is more self serving and each representative focusing on surviving than willing to rock the boat to pass legislation.  Remember that their government was designed so that itís very difficult to get things done.

Hillary Clinton lost because people did not want her for president.  I mean if Mitt Romney won note votes than trump  in Wisconsin and still lost the state to Obama shows that democrats stayed home.

Offline JMT

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to be Wrong ?
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2017, 09:58:11 am »
To be clear, based on the popular vote, the people in fact did want Hillary Clinton as President.

Offline MH

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to be Wrong ?
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2017, 10:15:19 am »


Hillary Clinton lost because people did not want her for president.   

Maybe, but thread drift.

I was arguing about cynical proxies as the political norm being EFFECTIVE deal brokers.  Without the right-to-be-wrong there is only disunity.  Complaining about centrists is one thing but electing crazy uncompromising people will lead to stasis, a seized-up political machine, and eventually violence.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to be Wrong ?
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2017, 10:46:20 am »
You know... all of us left of centres would probably be happy to see Bernie win but it wouldn't be much more successful than a Trump presidency in terms of major legislation passed.  Congress is owned and there isn't a way to eliminate the link between government and the super-wealthy. 

Sure there is. Appoint democrats to the supreme court. The law is whatever they say it is. It was a pair of SC rulings by a Republican court which opened the floodgates to corporate buyouts of politicians across the country. A Democratic court could reverse those rulings. That was the one reason (aside from Trump being a lying, ignorant ****) why I was hoping Clinton would win.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline MH

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to be Wrong ?
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2017, 11:06:17 am »
Sure there is. Appoint democrats to the supreme court. The law is whatever they say it is. It was a pair of SC rulings by a Republican court which opened the floodgates to corporate buyouts of politicians across the country. A Democratic court could reverse those rulings. That was the one reason (aside from Trump being a lying, ignorant ****) why I was hoping Clinton would win.

You are more of a Democrat than I realized.  But I guess so...

I'm concurring too much today.

Offline Blueblood

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to be Wrong ?
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2017, 03:50:29 pm »
To be clear, based on the popular vote, the people in fact did want Hillary Clinton as President.

Except in pa, mi, and wi.  They stayed home there.  Thereís a reason why thereís an electoral college and itís not based solely on the popular vote as their country is large and the population isnít spread out uniformily.