Author Topic: Democratic Socialists  (Read 984 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: Democratic Socialists
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2018, 03:15:57 pm »


I guess not all of us feel like thanking people for insulting and condescending responses.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

guest18

  • Guest
Re: Democratic Socialists
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2018, 03:49:14 pm »
Really? Please tell me what was funny that I called smarmy. Since you're such a neutral, unbiased fellow I'm sure your judgement is quite reliable.
I'm not sure. I lost track after half the conversation got deleted. Wasn't it something about getting a room?

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: Democratic Socialists
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2018, 03:59:47 pm »
I'm not sure. I lost track after half the conversation got deleted. Wasn't it something about getting a room?

I didn't call that smarmy. I just said it wasn't exactly new or creative.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline kimmy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5033
  • Location: Kim City BC
Re: Democratic Socialists
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2018, 12:13:36 pm »
"Socialism" might not be popular in the US, but socialist ideas are... just as long as you don't call them socialist.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/403248-poll-seventy-percent-of-americans-support-medicare-for-all

Increasing support for people like Bernie Sanders and Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez seems like the inevitable response to the trends of the past 10 years. Wages are stagnant, housing and education costs are out of control, the only people making economic progress are people who are already at the top of the ladder.  The government says it can't afford to help make healthcare or education more affordable, but they can afford a trillion-dollar tax cut for the richest Americans.  People like Dick Fuld and Angelo Mozilo made hundreds of millions of dollars while driving America's financial system into chaos, and not a single person ever saw a day in jail over it. Trump wants to pardon his friend Manafort because tax fraud isn't a "real" crime... illustrating that there's one set of rules for the ultra-rich and another for everybody else.  The question isn't why there's a backlash building, it's why has it taken so long.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline cybercoma

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2956
Re: Democratic Socialists
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2018, 03:03:31 pm »
I think I read the other day that Sanders is putting forward legislation to tax companies dollar-for-dollar the cost of social services that are used on their employees, e.g., food stamps. A brilliant strategy of implementing a living wage (why pay it in taxes when you can pay it to employees directly), while appealing to libertarian conservative ideals.

Offline Michael Hardner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12477
Re: Democratic Socialists
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2018, 04:18:00 pm »
I have been saying that this populist backlash goes against corporations too and has a leftist undertone.

Offline kimmy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5033
  • Location: Kim City BC
Re: Democratic Socialists
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2018, 12:10:31 pm »
I think I read the other day that Sanders is putting forward legislation to tax companies dollar-for-dollar the cost of social services that are used on their employees, e.g., food stamps. A brilliant strategy of implementing a living wage (why pay it in taxes when you can pay it to employees directly), while appealing to libertarian conservative ideals.

I understand the logic behind it... but it seems like the net effect would be to discourage companies from hiring people.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline cybercoma

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2956
Re: Democratic Socialists
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2018, 05:21:22 pm »
I understand the logic behind it... but it seems like the net effect would be to discourage companies from hiring people.

 -k
Companies only ever have as many expenses as absolutely necessary, including labour. They can’t function with less people. If they could, they would do it and make more profit. What this does is force these companies to pay people an appropriate wage that doesn’t rely on government subsidies to pad their profits.

Offline Michael Hardner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12477
Re: Democratic Socialists
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2018, 06:03:09 pm »
Wait - so this will force them to pay food stamp recipients more ?  Why not just increase the minimum wage ?  This seems like an indirect approach.

Better yet - across the board tax increases.

Offline TimG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
Re: Democratic Socialists
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2018, 06:48:57 pm »
Wait - so this will force them to pay food stamp recipients more ?  Why not just increase the minimum wage ?  This seems like an indirect approach.
It is a ridiculous idea that will inevitably result in fewer jobs for the people that need these services.

Offline cybercoma

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2956
Re: Democratic Socialists
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2018, 07:25:35 pm »
Wait - so this will force them to pay food stamp recipients more ?  Why not just increase the minimum wage ?  This seems like an indirect approach.

Better yet - across the board tax increases.
Because Republicans and so-called Libertarians won't vote for increased minimum wages nor tax increases.

Offline cybercoma

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2956
Re: Democratic Socialists
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2018, 07:25:59 pm »
It is a ridiculous idea that will inevitably result in fewer jobs for the people that need these services.
I never took you for one to support corporate welfare, but here we are.

Offline Michael Hardner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12477
Re: Democratic Socialists
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2018, 08:21:42 pm »
Because Republicans and so-called Libertarians won't vote for increased minimum wages nor tax increases.
Yeah, so... they are going to vote for this ?  Why ?

Offline Michael Hardner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12477
Re: Democratic Socialists
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2018, 08:33:28 pm »
It is a ridiculous idea that will inevitably result in fewer jobs for the people that need these services.

They could tax these people at twice the rate and the business would still happen.  Even the wealthy don't preach "trickle down" any more...

Offline TimG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
Re: Democratic Socialists
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2018, 08:36:33 pm »
I never took you for one to support corporate welfare, but here we are.
The only people who thinks social programs are "corporate welfare" are people with no understanding of economics. Social programs are funded whether people have jobs or not. If companies simply close up shop and fire everyone those programs will cost even more. Suggesting they are "subsides" is irrational nonsense.