Author Topic: Democrat 2020 presidential nominee?  (Read 2227 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: Democrat 2020 presidential nominee?
« Reply #60 on: January 24, 2019, 01:06:05 pm »
Of course, nobody got a majority of votes. By definition that's >50% of the votes, not just the most votes (which is a PLURality).


Offline Super Colin Blow

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Re: Democrat 2020 presidential nominee?
« Reply #61 on: January 25, 2019, 09:13:34 am »
Yeah, exactly. In the case of Trump and Hillary, more people voted against each of them than voted for them.
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Democrat 2020 presidential nominee?
« Reply #62 on: January 25, 2019, 09:26:19 am »
Elizabeth Warren is proposing a wealth tax.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/24/18196275/elizabeth-warren-wealth-tax

An idea whose time has come. Why tax income rather than wealth?  Why tax the ladder while people are when trying to climb?

The down side, of course, is that the wealthy are good at hiding wealth.

Some folks are born silver spoon in hand
Lord, don't they help themselves, oh
But when the taxman comes to the door
Lawd, the house look like a rummage sale, yeah.


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Offline TimG

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Re: Democrat 2020 presidential nominee?
« Reply #63 on: January 25, 2019, 09:40:59 am »
An idea whose time has come. Why tax income rather than wealth?  Why tax the ladder while people are when trying to climb?
Wealth taxes are the most regressive of taxes and worse than any other because they end up forcing successful business people to sell the businesses they built because the nominal book value of a successful business can far exceed the income someone earns from it. IOW, these kind of a taxes not only creates a disincentive to create businesses it actively undermines businesses that do succeed. I would rathers see the special treatment of capital gains eliminated first. This would have an effect similar to a wealth tax but would only impact people when they actually have cash to pay the tax bill.

Furthermore, even if such a tax was instituted the effect on revenues would be a rounding error because the total number of "super wealthy" is very small and they can afford to arrange their affairs to minimize the impact of such taxes.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 10:45:16 am by TimG »

Offline Omni

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Re: Democrat 2020 presidential nominee?
« Reply #64 on: January 25, 2019, 11:36:46 am »
Wealth taxes are the most regressive of taxes and worse than any other because they end up forcing successful business people to sell the businesses they built because the nominal book value of a successful business can far exceed the income someone earns from it. IOW, these kind of a taxes not only creates a disincentive to create businesses it actively undermines businesses that do succeed. I would rathers see the special treatment of capital gains eliminated first. This would have an effect similar to a wealth tax but would only impact people when they actually have cash to pay the tax bill.

Furthermore, even if such a tax was instituted the effect on revenues would be a rounding error because the total number of "super wealthy" is very small and they can afford to arrange their affairs to minimize the impact of such taxes.

A lot of those people who have the cash to pay the tax bill have that cash hidden in the BVI or elsewhere so the bill goes away. The imbalance in the US between haves and have nots is extreme and will continue to get worse with Trump at the controls, doing things such as rolling corp. tax back 14% ratcheting up the national debt which  the have nots end up paying.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Democrat 2020 presidential nominee?
« Reply #65 on: January 25, 2019, 02:13:03 pm »
Wealth taxes are the most regressive of taxes and worse than any other because they end up forcing successful business people to sell the businesses they built because the nominal book value of a successful business can far exceed the income someone earns from it. IOW, these kind of a taxes not only creates a disincentive to create businesses it actively undermines businesses that do succeed. I would rathers see the special treatment of capital gains eliminated first. This would have an effect similar to a wealth tax but would only impact people when they actually have cash to pay the tax bill.

Furthermore, even if such a tax was instituted the effect on revenues would be a rounding error because the total number of "super wealthy" is very small and they can afford to arrange their affairs to minimize the impact of such taxes.

You think a business worth $50 million isn't generating much income?   You're arguing as if this applies to small business and people who are house-rich but cash poor.  It wouldn't.

Is $2.75 trillion over 10 years a "rounding error" TimG?

Quote
...a proposal to levy a wealth tax on Americans with fortunes worth over $50 million.
-------------------------
 According to the post, Saez estimates this tax would hit approximately 75,000 families and raise $2.75 trillion over a 10-year period.

Seems completely reasonable to me. 

Offline TimG

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Re: Democrat 2020 presidential nominee?
« Reply #66 on: January 25, 2019, 06:01:15 pm »
You think a business worth $50 million isn't generating much income?
Lots of businesses have sky high valuations and but no profits. The founders will take a good income from the business and pay tax on that income but it is insane to suggest they should have give up control of their business just to pay a regressive and abusive tax. As I said, if the government wants to tax these people they should do it when assets are sold and actual profits made by getting rid of the special treatment for capital gains. Taxes should never be assessed on the yearly book value of an asset.

Is $2.75 trillion over 10 years a "rounding error" TimG?
US government spending over 10 years is 75 trillion so 3.6% is close to a rounding error. But there is no way that the tax would actually collect that much because people would change behavior. In the worst case, you see the wealthy leave the country for a place with less abusive tax policies. This is exactly what happened in France when they tried to increase marginal rates to 70%.

Seems completely reasonable to me.
Only because you don't really understand how businesses are built and value is created.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 06:37:20 pm by TimG »
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Offline wilber

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Re: Democrat 2020 presidential nominee?
« Reply #67 on: January 26, 2019, 01:51:02 pm »
You think a business worth $50 million isn't generating much income?   

Tesla. A ton of companies worth billions now made no profits for years, nor did they pay dividends. Apple has only paid dividends for five years or so, because all the capital went back into growing the company. Capital gains and profits, fine but a tax on their value is just regressive and will prevent companies from growing.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 01:53:52 pm by wilber »
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guest78

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Re: Democrat 2020 presidential nominee?
« Reply #68 on: April 28, 2020, 12:58:42 pm »
It’s gotten so bad with Biden that they’re having his wife speak in place of him.  He just stands there and smiles.



Offline waldo

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Re: Democrat 2020 presidential nominee?
« Reply #69 on: April 28, 2020, 02:48:58 pm »
It’s gotten so bad with Biden that they’re having his wife speak in place of him.  He just stands there and smiles.

even by your standards, this is so lame! A 35+ second clip where VP Biden is being talked of/introduced... apparently, you expect the guy to interrupt that!  ;D

Offline Omni

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Re: Democrat 2020 presidential nominee?
« Reply #70 on: April 28, 2020, 03:06:46 pm »
It’s gotten so bad with Biden that they’re having his wife speak in place of him.  He just stands there and smiles.



Grasping at straws again I see.

guest78

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Re: Democrat 2020 presidential nominee?
« Reply #71 on: April 28, 2020, 03:51:38 pm »
even by your standards, this is so lame! A 35+ second clip where VP Biden is being talked of/introduced... apparently, you expect the guy to interrupt that!  ;D
It’s even worse when he speaks!  Even you have to admit it.  Admitting to the truth doesn’t mean Trump is great you know.  It’s not an either or.



Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Democrat 2020 presidential nominee?
« Reply #72 on: April 28, 2020, 04:14:26 pm »
It’s even worse when he speaks!  Even you have to admit it.  Admitting to the truth doesn’t mean Trump is great you know.  It’s not an either or.

So tell us again why you overlook Trump’s much worse record on these things?  I don’t think you’ve come up with any intelligible answer....

Offline Omni

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Re: Democrat 2020 presidential nominee?
« Reply #73 on: April 28, 2020, 04:42:54 pm »
So tell us again why you overlook Trump’s much worse record on these things?  I don’t think you’ve come up with any intelligible answer....

I find I currently don't really need that great Canadian fact checker Daniel Dale to keep me up to speed on Trumps lies/contradictions. I just tune into his daily briefings and I quickly run out of fingers/toes counting them up since the last one.

guest78

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Re: Democrat 2020 presidential nominee?
« Reply #74 on: April 28, 2020, 09:05:19 pm »
So tell us again why you overlook Trump’s much worse record on these things?  I don’t think you’ve come up with any intelligible answer....
I support Trump based on policy.  Much the same way Biden supporters will over look his mental decline, his sexual assault, his nepotism.  Kinda the da,es way Democrats looked the other way via Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy.  Heck, the even had a prominent senator who was a former Klan member.
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