Author Topic: Boycott Israel ? No Hurricane Relief for You  (Read 633 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: Boycott Israel ? No Hurricane Relief for You
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2017, 11:56:01 am »
If someone BELIEVES in conspiracies, how is it an insult to say that they are conspiracy minded??

I'm confused too unless they believe the conspiracies are reality and calling them conspiracy theories is insulting?
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline gh0sthacked

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Boycott Israel ? No Hurricane Relief for You
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2017, 01:25:17 pm »
I don't think this was meant to apply to individuals. As for free markets - don't make me laugh. In a free market there would not be any grants to people whose houses had been flooded out. It would be up to them to repair them. Too many people build in flood zones and then when they get flooded expect other people to pick up the tab. Sorry, but no.

But it does apply to individuals. And it should not apply to businesses either. If I don't want to do business with a certain nation, it's in my rights not to do so. Now if this goes into law where I cannot refuse to do business with Israel, what does that really mean? And why does this need to exist?

Quote
It's a small municipality in Texas. TEXAS doesn't know how to govern.

This is not just Texas it seem. Which would blow the notion of it being a simply mistake.

Quote
Yup. And it's the government as a client which can then choose to boycott you.

I have no problem with being boycotted as a business/individual if I am dealing with terrorists or nations on the US's **** list. But I never have seen it where you are FORCED to support another nation and you could be at risk if you refuse to do business with Israeli firms.

https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/anti-israel-policies-are-anti-texas-policies

Texas Governor

Quote
Governor Greg Abbott today signed into law House Bill 89 (HB 89), known as the Anti-BDS (Boycott, Divestments, and Sanctions) bill, which prohibits all state agencies from contracting with, and certain public funds from investing in, companies that boycott Israel. The Governor hosted the bill signing at the Jewish Community Center in Austin. Today also marks Israel’s Independence Day.


Quote
As Israel's number one trading partner in the United States, Texas is proud to reaffirm its support for the people of Israel and we will continue to build on our historic partnership. Anti-Israel policies are anti-Texas policies, and we will not tolerate such actions against an important ally.

Supporting Israel by choice is one thing. Supporting Israel by way of law, making it illegal for you to boycott any Israeli firm is a slap in the face.

Again, this was no mistake. This was deliberate and coordinated.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-hogan-israel-20171023-story.html

Quote
Gov. Larry Hogan signed an executive order Monday that requires all firms with state contracts to promise they will not boycott Israel.

Hogan, surrounded by local and national Jewish leaders, said he wants to send a message that Maryland supports the Jewish state and the economic ties between the two regions.

The executive order is meant to thwart the international, Palestinian-led Boycott, ,Divestment and Sanctions movement, which urges companies to refuse to do business in Israel. The effort has gained only modest support in the United States.

Pro-Israel groups across the country have been pushing states to enact such anti-BDS measures, though the legality of some have been challenged on free-speech grounds.

Hogan said all future state contracts would require companies to certify they will not economically discriminate against Israel, and that if any current state contractors refuse to agree, “they would be terminated.”

How much do you need to see before you realize this is is a huge problem for the USA. Seems like Israel comes first, the US second.

https://unitedwithisrael.org/nevada-becomes-20th-us-state-to-sign-anti-bds-legislation-into-law/

Apparently this is not just the USA either,  similar things are being passed in Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/opinion-the-bds-motion-and-canada-s-relationship-with-israel-1.3488151

I understand this in an opinion piece.

Quote
The House of Commons voted overwhelmingly last month to condemn any BDS effort in Canada, as the pro-Palestinian tactic has become increasingly prevalent on Western campuses in the past decade or so. Israel's occupation of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank has consistently degraded Israel's recent standing in the world, though Tel Aviv shows no sign of letting go of what it sees as its own rightful territory, occupation or no occupation.

The BDS movement seeks to change Israel's mind by convincing the world to use economic pressure to force Israel to comply with international law. Israel and its supporters have rallied against this movement with attack dog-like enthusiasm.

It seems that it comes down to this where this legislation is in place to not complain about Israel in any way whatsoever. We all know the occupied territories are a contested and heated issue. And all of this going on is to prevent anyone from having the constitutional choice of not doing business with certain nations for whatever reason.

Again, no problem with legislation that prevents me from doing business with let's say North Korea. But there should be no legislation FORCING one to do business with Israel.

My analogy would be like ,  I would be in trouble if I boycotted Walmart because of their terrible environmental practices and slave labour like practices that have devastated entire communities.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 01:41:22 pm by JMT »

Offline gh0sthacked

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Boycott Israel ? No Hurricane Relief for You
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2017, 01:27:15 pm »
I'm confused too unless they believe the conspiracies are reality and calling them conspiracy theories is insulting?

We all know that using the term 'conspiracy minded' is to marginalize and insult the person putting the information forth. It's to distract from the issue and focus on the poster's mental state. That shows an issue with that poster more than it would show about my 'conspiracy' mind.

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: Boycott Israel ? No Hurricane Relief for You
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2017, 02:49:23 pm »
We all know that using the term 'conspiracy minded' is to marginalize and insult the person putting the information forth. It's to distract from the issue and focus on the poster's mental state. That shows an issue with that poster more than it would show about my 'conspiracy' mind.

Okay, but what do you call someone who talks about conspiracy theories like truthers or birthers or 911 people or those who think Hillary Clinton runs a paedophile ring from the basement of a Pizza shop, or people who think the Illuminati or the worldwide Jewish collective or the like runs the planet?
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Michael Hardner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12463
Re: Boycott Israel ? No Hurricane Relief for You
« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2017, 03:40:45 pm »
'Conspiracy minded' isn't pejorative.

Truthers, birther, and even conspiracy theorist are more so.

Offline gh0sthacked

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Boycott Israel ? No Hurricane Relief for You
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2017, 12:05:51 pm »
'Conspiracy minded' isn't pejorative.

Truthers, birther, and even conspiracy theorist are more so.

Well it seems you really want to use the term 'conspiracy theorist' but something is stopping you short of that. What is it?

I provided a few links that show this BDS movement is going not just national in the USA, but also here in Canada. I wonder why you don't see the problem here?


Offline Michael Hardner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12463
Re: Boycott Israel ? No Hurricane Relief for You
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2017, 12:42:54 pm »
Well it seems you really want to use the term 'conspiracy theorist' but something is stopping you short of that. What is it?

Because I was trying not to insult you.

Quote
I provided a few links that show this BDS movement is going not just national in the USA, but also here in Canada. I wonder why you don't see the problem here?

?  BDS has been controversial for awhile in Canada and I believe Rue posted about it on MLW.  I don't know how I feel about it.  I think criticism of Israel sometimes goes over into anti-Semitism but I don't think countries should be exempt from criticism either. 

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: Boycott Israel ? No Hurricane Relief for You
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2017, 02:57:26 pm »
?  BDS has been controversial for awhile in Canada and I believe Rue posted about it on MLW.  I don't know how I feel about it.  I think criticism of Israel sometimes goes over into anti-Semitism but I don't think countries should be exempt from criticism either.

Most of those involved in the BDS movement appear to be fairly obvious anti-Semites. Why Israel? Why not target Russia over its support of Syria or China over its support of Sudan? Far, far, far more misery and bloodshed and human rights abuses coming out of that but there is no interest among the Left in Canada or the US or Europe who care so very, very deeply about human rights abuses in Palestine.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Michael Hardner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12463
Re: Boycott Israel ? No Hurricane Relief for You
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2017, 03:28:05 pm »
Most of those involved in the BDS movement appear to be fairly obvious anti-Semites. Why Israel? Why not target Russia over its support of Syria or China over its support of Sudan? Far, far, far more misery and bloodshed and human rights abuses coming out of that but there is no interest among the Left in Canada or the US or Europe who care so very, very deeply about human rights abuses in Palestine.

I don't think you have to be precisely equal when you criticize countries.  Russia, China and Syria are not anything like the allies Israel is, but as I say I am open on this one.

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: Boycott Israel ? No Hurricane Relief for You
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2017, 04:12:43 pm »
I don't think you have to be precisely equal when you criticize countries.  Russia, China and Syria are not anything like the allies Israel is, but as I say I am open on this one.

Israel isn't in the crosshairs of progressives because they're allies. We have lots of 'allies' of convenience with disreputable reputations. How about Saudi Arabia? It's an apartheid state, except the apartheid is between males and females. Do we see feminist groups demanding boycotts? Hell no. We've just joined an international bank headed by China and are going to pour hundreds of millions into it. The government is pushing free trade with China. China has slave labour, and treats its Muslims probably worse than Israel does.  Trudeau fawns over them at every opportunity. Does this distress the Left? Nope. It's always all about Israel.

"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Michael Hardner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12463
Re: Boycott Israel ? No Hurricane Relief for You
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2017, 04:40:20 pm »
Israel isn't in the crosshairs of progressives because they're allies. We have lots of 'allies' of convenience with disreputable reputations. How about Saudi Arabia? It's an apartheid state, except the apartheid is between males and females.

No, but we are more likely to protest closer allies.  I don't know why people don't protest Saudi more.  We're starting to see more discussion of them though.

Quote
Does this distress the Left? Nope. It's always all about Israel.

Meh.  Hyperbole.  It's not "all about Israel" and you're trying to understand something that's multifaceted.

Offline gh0sthacked

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Boycott Israel ? No Hurricane Relief for You
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2017, 09:06:20 am »
BDS has been controversial for awhile in Canada and I believe Rue posted about it on MLW.  I don't know how I feel about it.  I think criticism of Israel sometimes goes over into anti-Semitism but I don't think countries should be exempt from criticism either.

Rue has, got a stick up his ass, where every criticism is treated as antisemitism to stifle talking about the real issue. I would rather talk about the issue than get called a **** jew hater every **** reply. But rarely can I ever get to that stage and it's not like I have not tried.

I understand Israel is a US ally, but does this mean this kind of legislation is needed? I don't see this kind of thing in the US for any other nation.

What if the notion was to not boycott Russia? You bet there would be problems.  This kind of thing puts the US second and Israel first.

This forces you to do business with certain companies even if you disagree with them.