Author Topic: American Public Education Culture  (Read 411 times)

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Offline MH

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American Public Education Culture
« on: June 16, 2019, 07:12:01 am »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVNC_R260pA

A retired teacher talks about Public Education in Patterson NJ.  Granted, this is an anti-union group that wants to blame unions for everything that is wrong in education but the fact is that problems are being ignored.  This is an American phenomenon, increasingly.

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Offline MH

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Offline waldo

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Re: American Public Education Culture
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2019, 11:13:50 am »
latest PISA rankings (to be officially released Dec, 2019) - U.S. positioned @ 31st - oh my!




by design intent, focused on 15-year olds... (some time back now as I recall), when this came up on the 'other board', the principal U.S. apologist immediately deflected to world-wide university rankings - cause!
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Offline SuperColinBlow

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Re: American Public Education Culture
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2019, 03:08:01 pm »
What exactly do you think would fix this?
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Offline Omni

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Re: American Public Education Culture
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2019, 03:19:43 pm »
What exactly do you think would fix this?

One possibility that comes to mind would be to amend laws to steer more tax dollars into the education systems that are failing instead of into the pockets of the already filthy rich.

Offline Poonlight Graham

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Re: American Public Education Culture
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2019, 04:50:24 pm »
What exactly do you think would fix this?

Besides the education system itself, there's also a lot of poverty areas in the US, like in the south or rural areas, tons of poor black communities, and many illegal immigrants many of whom aren't well educated nor are their kids before they came to the US.  Poor parents are most often poor because they aren't well educated and therefore can't support their kids with their homework etc as effectively, nor are those parents typically as focused on their education as opposed to more well-off parents. 

Poor communities also have a lot more single parents who don't have as much time to help their kids with homework, can't keep up as much with what's going on in the classroom/school etd. Poor children also may not be fed as well, especially breakfast, among many other various factors.

One thing they need to do is to give much better incentives, even big pay increases, for the best teachers to teach in the schools with the worst education results.  Or they should even require these teachers to teach in these areas.
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Offline TimG

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Re: American Public Education Culture
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2019, 05:35:39 pm »
One thing they need to do is to give much better incentives, even big pay increases, for the best teachers to teach in the schools with the worst education results.  Or they should even require these teachers to teach in these areas.
Won't do any good unless the system is fixed to reward teachers based on merit rather than seniority. I have heard from multiple people working in the system that while there are many dedicated teachers doing a great job their work is often undone by crappy teachers who are only there to collect a pension. The system will never get better as long as crappy teachers face no consequences for their incompetence.
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Offline MH

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Re: American Public Education Culture
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2019, 06:42:06 pm »
What exactly do you think would fix this?

Nothing quick.  More money, more attention, better attitudes.

It's culture change.  Very expensive and slow to fix.

Offline Poonlight Graham

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Re: American Public Education Culture
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2019, 09:39:47 pm »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTYtfRXgop0

Hmmm.

Where's the parents of these kids?  Is the school telling the parents?  Where's the school in this?  Are they even cutting class or is this a Saturday? lol
"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"  - African proverb

Offline cybercoma

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Re: American Public Education Culture
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2019, 07:19:14 am »
One possibility that comes to mind would be to amend laws to steer more tax dollars into the education systems that are failing instead of into the pockets of the already filthy rich.
This won't actually help. You notice how the socially progressive nations (China's numbers are cooked, but Switzerland, Norway, Finland, Australia, Canada, New Zealand) are the ones doing better? The take away is that people's home environments need to be improved. We need to do more to address socioeconomic inequalities because it is those contexts that inhibit learning.

Offline TimG

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Re: American Public Education Culture
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2019, 08:32:05 am »
This won't actually help. You notice how the socially progressive nations
Then why did Sweden do so badly? Or Spain or Italy? The US numbers are also deceptive. The schools in middle class and upper class neighborhoods are very good but the average is brought down by the abysmal inner city schools. Likely their healthcare, US is a combination of the best in the world and the worst.

Moreover, your inequality bugbear is not much of an explaination. Making everyone equally poor will not improve educational outcomes as long as the underlying cultural attitude towards learning does not change.  Changing the culture is harder and not something that the education system can do much about.

Offline MH

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Re: American Public Education Culture
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2019, 09:11:32 am »
This won't actually help. You notice how the socially progressive nations (China's numbers are cooked, but Switzerland, Norway, Finland, Australia, Canada, New Zealand) are the ones doing better? The take away is that people's home environments need to be improved. We need to do more to address socioeconomic inequalities because it is those contexts that inhibit learning.

I don't know - I think that an education system would be an "easier" (still difficult) place to start than the home though.

Offline MH

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Re: American Public Education Culture
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2019, 09:17:40 am »
Moreover, your inequality bugbear is not much of an explaination. Making everyone equally poor will not improve educational outcomes as long as the underlying cultural attitude towards learning does not change.   

Bugbear ?  Isn't 'making everyone equally poor' a bugbear too ?

Offline TimG

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Re: American Public Education Culture
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2019, 09:32:05 am »
Bugbear ?  Isn't 'making everyone equally poor' a bugbear too ?
Not really. It is a reference to the fact that cyber seems to blame every social ill on "income inequality". My response is a thought exercise that illustrates the why it makes no sense to place so much importance on the "income inequality" factor.

Offline SuperColinBlow

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Re: American Public Education Culture
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2019, 10:56:17 am »
One possibility that comes to mind would be to amend laws to steer more tax dollars into the education systems that are failing instead of into the pockets of the already filthy rich.

Actually, the failing schools in some cases get a lot more money per student than the ones which are doing much better. In my state, the City of Baltimore gets 3x as much money per student as Carroll County, for example, the latter is one of if not the best school district in the State. Baltimore public schools are among the worst in the nation. The problem is not how much money they are getting, it's the fact that their schools are GROSSLY mismanaged, and practically unaccountable (money-wise).

It's so bad that at one point, the General Assembly (state legislature) tried to take over Baltimore city public schools and run it directly by the state board of education. But the senators and delegates from the City charged it was racist, and the effort fell apart. It was more likely that it was embarrassing to the city's leaders.

In Baltimore, there are warehouses full of computers intended for use in the city. All locked up. Why? Because the students in the past have vandalized/destroyed them. You do get more money for teaching in Baltimore than in Carroll County, but many would prefer the latter, since the former is basically danger (and higher stress) money.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 11:11:09 am by SuperColinBlow »
War is Peace
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Ignorance is Strength