Author Topic: America's Epistemic Crisis  (Read 2727 times)

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Offline SirJohn

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Re: America's Epistemic Crisis
« Reply #105 on: February 28, 2018, 12:10:58 pm »
Further to my statement about immigration being responsible for much of the unrest among nativists...

In the Italian election, migration issues have wrestled their way to the forefront, boosting the popularity of the right-wing parties. Anti-immigrant slogans and rhetoric and attacks on migrants are grabbing the headlines.

Italy is not alone, of course. September's German election saw the rise of Alternative for Germany, the rabidly anti-immigrant party that won almost 13 per cent of the vote, depriving chancellor Angela Merkel and her conservative allies of a parliamentary majority. With Italy, and much of the rest of the European Union, obsessed with migration issues, centre-left parties are finding themselves in retreat; the polls say that Italy's ruling Democratic Party has little chance of forming a government.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/italy-lurches-to-the-xenophobic-right-in-election-centred-on-immigration/article38144969/
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: America's Epistemic Crisis
« Reply #106 on: February 28, 2018, 05:48:10 pm »
I don't know if the European comparison is apt, frankly.  They have much worse problems and they haven't exactly had a populist uprising as America did.  This is more about the entire face of politics changing, and I don't see that in Europe but I may be wrong.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: America's Epistemic Crisis
« Reply #107 on: February 28, 2018, 06:10:11 pm »
I don't know if the European comparison is apt, frankly.  They have much worse problems and they haven't exactly had a populist uprising as America did.  This is more about the entire face of politics changing, and I don't see that in Europe but I may be wrong.

Politics is changing faster in Europe than here because they have proportionate rep there. Here it takes overwhelming pressure to shift the mainstream parties, but you can certainly see that south of the border. I mean, you have people adamant that they want a wall built to keep out illegals, then you have immigration supporters, even illegal immigration supporters, like the mayor of Oakland, brazenly warning the illegal immigrant community that the federal immigration authorities are about to launch a crackdown so they can hide. We have the same thing in Canada, where local left wing mayors and councils in places like Montreal, London and Toronto have defiantly said they will grant all social welfare benefits to illegal migrants and not report them. This is one of those areas where I side with Trump, and think such local authorities should be hammered with a total loss of all federal money.


« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 06:11:49 pm by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: America's Epistemic Crisis
« Reply #108 on: February 28, 2018, 06:16:41 pm »
Let's get specific.

Where in Europe is politics changing as fast as it is in America ?

Offline ?Impact

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Re: America's Epistemic Crisis
« Reply #109 on: February 28, 2018, 06:34:50 pm »
We have the same thing in Canada, where local left wing mayors and councils in places like Montreal, London and Toronto have defiantly said they will grant all social welfare benefits to illegal migrants and not report them. This is one of those areas where I side with Trump, and think such local authorities should be hammered with a total loss of all federal money.

It is in the large cities that all immigrants flock, and those cities are left to deal with the situation that the rest of the tsk tskers just rant about. Now those tsk tskers who contribute far less to the economy than the big cities want to steal more from the big cities.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: America's Epistemic Crisis
« Reply #110 on: February 28, 2018, 06:46:06 pm »
Let's get specific.

Where in Europe is politics changing as fast as it is in America ?

Seriously, where did you hear much about far right parties in government ten years ago? The National Front got something like 4% of the vote in 2007, and 33% last year.
New far right or anti-immigrant  parties have emerged all across the continent. Most of the ones in places like Italy, Germany and Greece didn't even exist ten years ago. The Danish People's party got 21% of the vote in the last election. Hungary's version got the same. Austria's version just took power. The ADF in Germany went from 0 seats in parliament the previous election to 97 last year. As David Frum said more than a year ago “When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders, then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won’t do.”

If Canada had a proportional rep system we would most definitely have an anti-immigration party, and that party would most definitely have sufficient support to get seats in parliament.

http://vancouversun.com/opinion/op-ed/opinion-nationalist-anti-immigrant-parties-thrive-in-europe-why-not-in-canada
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 06:51:37 pm by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: America's Epistemic Crisis
« Reply #111 on: February 28, 2018, 06:48:35 pm »
It is in the large cities that all immigrants flock, and those cities are left to deal with the situation that the rest of the tsk tskers just rant about. Now those tsk tskers who contribute far less to the economy than the big cities want to steal more from the big cities.

Those councils have no right to spend taxpayer money on illegal migrants from foreign countries. The situation needs to be remedied by arresting the migrants and deporting them, not by feeding, clothing and sheltering them.

Alternatively, social justice warriors could be required to pay a special tax, and that tax would go to supporting all the third world migrants, including their health care and the education of any children. Of course, that assumes social justice activists even pay taxes, which is a stretch.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline ?Impact

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Re: America's Epistemic Crisis
« Reply #112 on: February 28, 2018, 06:51:18 pm »
The situation needs to be remedied by arresting the migrants and deporting them

That is a federal responsibility. In the meantime the cities are left to deal with the mess.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: America's Epistemic Crisis
« Reply #113 on: February 28, 2018, 06:52:47 pm »
That is a federal responsibility. In the meantime the cities are left to deal with the mess.

You call announcing you're a 'sanctuary city' where illegal migrants are safe and can obtain full social welfare services 'dealing' with it? I call that advertising far and wide "Just come here! We've got free money for you! Come ahead! We won't turn you in! Want a free apartment!? It's here for you! The more the merrier!"

"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: America's Epistemic Crisis
« Reply #114 on: February 28, 2018, 06:55:51 pm »
I don't see any constitutional amendments coming from this.  The chances of compromise in today's rampant partisanship probably hasn't been so poor since the civil war.

Changes in gun laws maybe, all of which will be challenged in the courts. With a Republican dominated SCOTUS, I wouldn't bet on their chances.

Gun control laws are already in place in some states and don’t need changes to the constitution.  It’s political will that is lacking, not the legal ability to make laws. 

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Re: America's Epistemic Crisis
« Reply #115 on: March 01, 2018, 07:45:15 am »
American gun worshippers, literally.

Quote
Worshippers clutched rifles and donned crowns made of rounds of bullets, as they exchanged or renewed wedding vows at a church in the US state of Pennsylvania on Wednesday.

Brides wearing white and grooms in dark suits brought dozens of unloaded AR-15s for the commitment ceremony at the World Peace and Unification Sanctuary building in the town of Newfoundland, about 190 kilometers (120 miles) north of Philadelphia.

The church, which has a worldwide following, believes the AR-15 symbolizes the "rod of iron" in the book of Revelation, and encourages couples to bring the weapons.

http://www.dw.com/en/us-rifle-toting-worshippers-renew-wedding-vows-at-pennsylvania-church/a-42778174

Offline wilber

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Re: America's Epistemic Crisis
« Reply #116 on: March 01, 2018, 08:24:50 am »
Gun control laws are already in place in some states and don’t need changes to the constitution.  It’s political will that is lacking, not the legal ability to make laws.

I was referring to a post that had a comment about constitutional change. There does need to be national standards, states can only do so much. They can’t secure their borders with other states from guns any more than you can stop people taking booze across provincial borders.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline SirJohn

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Re: America's Epistemic Crisis
« Reply #117 on: March 09, 2018, 07:14:04 pm »
This is a talk by Roger Scruton, the British philosopher and academic. He is discussing the reason for Trump being elected, and the feeling by what he calls the 'overlooked and ignored indigenous working class people' of the United States, that anyone was better than the Liberal elites who made little effort to disguise how much they despised them. It would not take a lot to reach out to that alienated group, but unfortunately, I don't see any real signs the Democrats are much interested in it.

« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 03:26:32 pm by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Manob

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Re: America's Epistemic Crisis
« Reply #118 on: March 30, 2018, 11:55:20 pm »
Just read the article in the OP. An epistemic crisis about sums things up. Unfortunately, I think the crisis is even force than the article describes. It focuses on how the far right is descending into "tribal epistemology". Unfortunately, it seems quite clear that the far left is doing the same thing, and that the portion of each side that falls into the "far" category is increasing, due to the effects of social media echo chambers (as well as targetted psy ops as discussed in the other thread). The middle is increasingly being hollowed out and the fraction of people who care about understanding reality rather than defending their tribal beliefs is dwindling.
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: America's Epistemic Crisis
« Reply #119 on: March 31, 2018, 05:58:14 am »
So commit acts of random "middle-some".

I deleted a thread on my own facebook last night because people were being unkind to conservatives.