Author Topic: Israel's Settlement Policy  (Read 125 times)

Offline jmt18325

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Israel's Settlement Policy
« on: February 02, 2017, 08:17:16 pm »
I have always been a supporter of Israel.  I am not a supporter of Israel's settlement policy.  Today, the Trump Administration came out against the settlements (!).  I agree with this position (I hope I don't have to say that many times).  What are your feelings on Israel's settlement policy?

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Offline Blueblood

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Re: Israel's Settlement Policy
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2017, 09:58:53 pm »
The settlement policy is Israel thinking strategically to shore up their gains in the 1967 war which helped secure their country.  It is leverage in negotiations nothing more.

Offline jmt18325

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Re: Israel's Settlement Policy
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2017, 10:05:14 pm »
It's also, IMO, the irritant cause of some of the violence in the region today (though definitely not the only irritant.

Offline Blueblood

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Re: Israel's Settlement Policy
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2017, 10:29:05 pm »
I think the state of Israel being there is an irritant of itself.  The elites of the Muslim world don't like not being in charge of Israel and it drives them nuts. 

Offline SuperColinBlow

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Re: Israel's Settlement Policy
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2017, 12:34:03 pm »
I take the same position: I want Israel to survive, but I think the settlements are in the long run going to hurt them.

Offline Blueblood

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Re: Israel's Settlement Policy
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2017, 01:28:26 pm »
I take the same position: I want Israel to survive, but I think the settlements are in the long run going to hurt them.

They are playing the really long game with settlements.  The 1967 war showed weaknesses in israels defence and the expanded territory helps shore that up.  Given israels success on the battlefield they got themselves more chips at the poker table.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Israel's Settlement Policy
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2017, 11:33:51 am »
They are playing the really long game with settlements.  The 1967 war showed weaknesses in israels defence and the expanded territory helps shore that up.  Given israels success on the battlefield they got themselves more chips at the poker table.

I don't understand what this long game is all about. They've already got 600,000 people on the West Bank. The more people they have there the more unlikely there can ever be a two-state solution. Do they want to simply annex the West Bank and move hundreds of thousands or millions more there? Right now there are about 6.5 million Jews in Israel. They're already facing demographic threats from the growing Muslim/Arab population which is now at nearly 2 million and growing much faster than Israeli Jews. There are approximately six million Arabs in the West Bank. Absorbing them would put Jews in a minority, which would mean no more Jewish state.

That means they would either have to become a true apartheid state, and not let the Arabs vote or have representation in parliament, or expel them all. I don't see any way they can survive the former with any kind of international support, and I don't see how they could possibly succeed at the latter.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Israel's Settlement Policy
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2017, 01:14:06 pm »
They're already facing demographic threats from the growing Muslim/Arab population which is now at nearly 2 million and growing much faster than Israeli Jews. There are approximately six million Arabs in the West Bank. Absorbing them would put Jews in a minority, which would mean no more Jewish state.

Maybe they need a one child policy, like failed in China.

Offline wilber

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Re: Israel's Settlement Policy
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2017, 02:09:22 pm »
I don't see it as a long game either, just domestic politics that will make it much more difficult if not impossible to reach a lasting settlement and erodes public support in countries Israel relies on for support.

Offline crystalline

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Re: Israel's Settlement Policy
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2017, 02:41:58 pm »
Approximately 86% of the Arab population are not allowed in the Israel's borders which leaves 209,000 Arabs in peace. The Arab-perpetrated wars of annihilation has been against Israel over the past 70 years.

Offline Moonlight Graham

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Re: Israel's Settlement Policy
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2017, 12:01:38 am »
Maybe at one point the settlements were for leverage but I believe Netanyahu believes that the entirety of the West Bank, Jerusalem, even Gaza belongs historically to the Jews and he would like to annex all of it for Israel, but for now as much of the WB as he can.  He certainly doesn't care what the US or anyone else thinks.

I don't have much sympathy for any violence directed at Israel from the Arabs who live in the WB because of it.  It's basically an act of war.  IMO all foreign aid money by the US to Israel should cease until the building stops and is retracted to the legal limits of Israel. 
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Israel's Settlement Policy
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2017, 12:17:08 am »
I have always been a supporter of Israel.  I am not a supporter of Israel's settlement policy. 

I never understood this.  How can you support a country with an entrenched (and defining) policy that you don't agree with?

I can't support Israel any more than I can 'support' the US when they're invading other countries, or Russia or any other country that violates human rights through the use of military force.

If/when Israel stops building settlements I will support them.

Offline jmt18325

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Re: Israel's Settlement Policy
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2017, 06:19:47 am »
I support their right to exist and be free.  I also support them as a democratic country with a pretty good record in that regard.  Some of the things that they do....

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Israel's Settlement Policy
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2017, 11:04:36 am »
I support their right to exist and be free.  I also support them as a democratic country with a pretty good record in that regard.  Some of the things that they do....

A while ago I watched an interview with a Hamas leader and the interviewer asked him about his refusal to accept Israel's right to exist.  He answered that in order for him to do that, Israel has to first define what Israel is.

I hate to agree with him, but he's right.  Is he supposed to accept the Israel of today?  Of 1967?  Of 1948?

It's easy to say you accept Israel's right to exist, but if you support their right to exist as they are today, occupiers, then you are contradicting yourself when you say  you don't support their settlement expansion.

Either they need to annex the West Bank and grant its citizens rights (which will never happen), or they dismantle settlements and give back West Bank and East Jerusalem (which will equally never happen).

I can't' support' a country like that that knocks down homes and has keeps millions of people without human rights. 

How about you, which "Israel" do you support? 
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Offline jmt18325

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Re: Israel's Settlement Policy
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2017, 11:36:39 am »
That makes some sense.  I'd also say that I'm no more a fan of a Jewish state than I am of an Islamic state.