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Messages - Moonlight Graham

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General Discussion / Re: Sex Culture
« on: August 17, 2017, 10:55:30 pm »
Men are threatened by gay men.  It's just tough guy masculine BS, macho culture, whatever you want to call it.  It makes men uncomfortable, men are "supposed" to be tough, and "tough" men don't want to even accept the chance that they might enjoy a gay encounter...that's a threat to their whole identity, and for a hetero man to show approval of gay men (in hetero men's minds) there's a fear by many hetero men that this will make other people question their hetero-ness or masculinity.  I feel bad for gay men, they're made to feel like they're lesser men by other men or even women sometimes.

American Politics / Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« on: August 17, 2017, 10:39:18 pm »
I'm not saying I agree with them or that they raise a good point, I just wish nobody on the side of sanity had given them that out and only fought back instead of instigating.

That's the part that bothers me in all this.

I don't think that's much of an out.  There's no excuse for driving a car into innocent people.  The facts remains that the vast majority of people protesting the white supremacists were non-violent, & the supremacists came out looking like the morons.

American Politics / Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« on: August 17, 2017, 10:26:14 pm »
Not really - it's more moral equivalency garbage.

Trying to equate WWII to Charlottesville is garbage.

I'm not saying leftwing protesters are anywhere near as bad as KKK/Nazis, there's no moral equivalency there.  In fact most of those protesters are great citizens.  The Nazis caused most of that crap.  But when you start swinging punches & clubs because you're angry & you hate someone well I think that's bad behaviour no matter Nazi or whomever.

American Politics / Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« on: August 17, 2017, 10:22:28 pm »
My point - that wasn't always the case in WWII either - certainly not at every engagement.  Overall, the Nazis started it, both times.

So you support mobs of regular citizens lynching Nazis and KKK in America?  I'm sure that will work out well...MLK so proud!

American Politics / Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« on: August 17, 2017, 10:15:32 pm »
So when the KKK shows up in town armed and ready for a fight, people should be pacifists and take their shit?

No, they should protest the KKK and defend themselves if they're indeed physically attacked, and if the KKK does illegal crap then the police should arrest & charge them.  I believe this is how it works in a normally functioning civil democracy.

General Discussion / Re: Sex Culture
« on: August 17, 2017, 07:42:35 pm »
I want to have sex with thousands of hot women.  Not at the same time mind you. 

Now back to our regular scheduled programming.

American Politics / Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« on: August 17, 2017, 06:17:41 pm »
Oh the false equivalency going on by the Trump supporter here.

I'm not a Trump supporter, he's a terrible person & a racist.

As seen on twitter: Sure, the cancer was aggressive. But the chemotherapy was also aggressive. There was aggression on both sides.

Violence by vigilantes is not the proper cure for this cancer.  Go ask MLK or Gandhi.  We don't need to stoop to their level.  The chemo here is protest, condemnation, & political action.  We've seen a whole bunch of confederate monuments come down since the protest, that's what we need.

As seen on the facebook: We hate Trump as much as you hate Obama. The difference is we hate Trump because he is racist while you hate Obama because you are a racist.

True enough, but we need to stop hating people we strongly dislike.  It leads to people lashing out in violence.  We need to stop acting like children and act like civilized adults, which these alt-right morons aren't.  KKK & Nazis are human beings who think, say, and do terrible things, but they're still human beings.  Violent mob justice against them is just like they would do.  Public lynchings brings us to their level.

American Politics / Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« on: August 17, 2017, 05:59:54 pm »
Overall.  The same is true here.

If a left-wing protester was being violent in order to defend themselves against a violent attack by these alt-right idiots then yes you're right.  But that wasn't always the case in Charlottesville.  Here's footage of a pretty tame speech by the organizer of the "Unite the Right" protests being attacked/punched by a protester...who chases him down & punches him again before being arrested by the cops (go to 17:30 in the video):

Every single one of us either supports this violence or condemns it as per the law, there's no other option.  Nazis and anti-Nazi protesters should all be following the same basic rule of law, otherwise there will be chaos.  The cops failed to uphold the law on every side during the protests since they were ordered by the mayor to stand down.

American Politics / Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« on: August 16, 2017, 10:44:36 pm »
WWII was pretty violent.  Sometimes we hit the Nazis first.  Sometimes, you have to hit the Nazis first.

The Nazis hit first.  The Allies etc were defending themselves against Nazi attack.

American Politics / Re: Facebook Complicity and Harassment
« on: August 16, 2017, 08:50:12 pm »
I believe that Facebook does have privacy settings that let you restrict strangers from seeing your content or sending you messages. If harassment is a problem, maybe those tools are sufficient to deal with the issue.


On public groups or public posts from other people/celebrities etc. I think you'd be more vulnerable, in which case I would think anything illegal should be removed, which would include harassment or violent threats etc.  Better yet, report the death threats etc to police & make people learn they can't hide from committing crimes online.

And yeah I agree she may have been looking for this reaction, hard to say for sure.  Doesn't make it any less horrible though.

American Politics / Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« on: August 16, 2017, 08:34:33 pm »
That's about as flimsy an argument as Trump is trying to flog.

Anti-violence is not a good argument?  Do you condemn all of the people who initiated violence on that day?  For Pete's sake I try to do so and I'm labeled a Trump & Nazi defender on all this nonsense here & elsewhere.

Watch the videos and get back to us as to who you see coming to the party with Nazi flags, tiki torches, and AR 15's, screaming racist slogans. Quit trying to protect these assholes!

Show me where I've defended these horrible idiots?  I'm not pro-Nazi i'm anti-violent a$$hats!!  I'm not going to defend a bunch of idiots just because they're "on my side".  This isn't a baseball game, people are getting hurt out there.  Nazis getting clubbed & maced isn't the worst thing I've heard of but momma taught me better too.

American Politics / Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« on: August 16, 2017, 07:18:07 pm »
The problem with that argument...

If the racists/neo-nazis did not exist, then the antifa would not exist.
If the antifa people did not exist, the racists/neo-nazis would have continued doing what they were doing.

It may not necessarily be wrong to question the activities of some of the left-wing protestors. But because of the reasons that both groups exist (one side expressing hate, the other saying hate is wrong), then ALL of the blame should go to the racists.

Huh??  Obviously antifa is fighting for a more righteous cause, but everyone is responsible for their own actions.  I'm going to go with the law here, which says all violence against another person is wrong (unless it's in self-defense of violence being imminently forced upon you etc).  If I punch someone in the face I can't put ALL blame on the other person because they were spewing offensive or even hateful things at me (unless it's threatening me with violence), I'll still be charged with assault, so what you're saying wouldn't stand up in court.  The state has a monopoly on violence, this is how liberal democracies & civilized societies work.

I'm not trying to defend nazis or Trump, I'm trying to defend anti-violence, like MLK & Gandhi did.

But because of the reasons that both groups exist (one side expressing hate, the other saying hate is wrong), then ALL of the blame should go to the racists.]

Consider this: when an otherwise well-meaning protester dislikes hateful Nazis/KKK like we all do with so much resentment & anger that the protester violently attacks those KKK racists, isn't that also an expression of hate?  Shouldn't we be better than them? "Others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win, unless you hate them, and then you destroy yourself". - Richard Nixon at his farewell speech.

American Politics / Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« on: August 16, 2017, 09:26:58 am »
There's an established legal precedent in the United States, that certain speech in and of itself constitutes a breach of the peace, under the general heading "Fighting Words".

In layman's terms: Talk Shit, Get Hit.

If you threaten violence against someone then yeah I can see a self-defense claim on that (which as I said, I'm sure happened at the riots by the KKK/nazis).  But you shouldn't be allowed to attack someone because what they said makes you angry or offended.  Stooping to their level is just going to cause a further breakdown of civility & law and help fuel the riots we saw this week.  Martin Luther King didn't tell his supporters to start punching people.  MLK is possibly the greatest American ever, he should be the model here I think.

American Politics / Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« on: August 16, 2017, 09:15:55 am »
Standing up against racism and bigotry is hardly what anyone would/should call "self-righteousness". And no, your videos do not support your claim. Carrying nazi flags and screaming racist slogans and insults is what is mostly what is seen in those videos. And most of those people travelled in from out of state to be there to raise shit. And btw, the Lee statue wasn't about to be destroyed, it was about to be moved from a park to a museum.

I condemn every single act/utterance of racism and bigotry by those rightwing protestors as well.  But I also condemn every single act of people there who initiated violence, which was mostly done by the racists it seems but also done by certain leftwing protestors.  Violence in self-defense of physical violence being imminently committed against you or possibly in response to a violent threat against you can be justified, and I'm sure there was plenty of that happening here, but there was more than that happening here.  Everything else should be handled by the police in a civil society, & the cops seemed to fail to act to stop much of the violence so they're to blame too.  We've seen in the US what happens when the law is taken into the hands of citizens, it's created a situation where everyone feels they need to own a gun to protect themselves & gun violence rates are sky high.

Here's video of a leftwing protestor attacking and macing an Alex Jones reporter simply for being associated with dumb Alex Jones.  Police do nothing:

Oh and defending one thing Trump said doesn't mean I defend other things he says or support him general, because I don't, he's a terrible person.

American Politics / Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« on: August 15, 2017, 11:10:34 pm »
Trump has no values or principles of his own.   Even the white nationalists have values and principles they stand for, as wrong as they might be.  Not Trump.  Trump's only value or principle is doing what benefits Trump.  And as far as his short-sighted thinking is concerned, standing up for these Trump Voters is what he thinks suits his interests the best.

I think that's giving him too much credit, I think he's standing up for the alt-right Trump voters because he feels they're right to protest the statue coming down.

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