Canadian Politics Today

Beyond Canada => American Politics => Topic started by: JMT on February 01, 2017, 09:13:55 pm


Title: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 01, 2017, 09:13:55 pm
Did Donald Trump say something a bit off the wall today?  Probably.  This is the place.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 01, 2017, 09:14:36 pm
In all honesty though, I think Trump could have done far worse when it came to picking a supreme court nominee.  It was the most normal thing he's done thus far.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on February 01, 2017, 09:36:54 pm
He's put Iran on notice, and told the Mexican president that he'll send in the troops to take care of their 'bad hombres'.   What does being put on notice mean, anyway?   I can't imagine a leader saying "oh, Trump has put me on notice.  Guess I better go sit in the corner". 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 01, 2017, 09:38:19 pm
Iran isn't going to get a gold star on its report card.

In all honesty, that, combined with Bannon's place on the National Security Council should be very concerning.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 01, 2017, 09:48:50 pm
Today, Trump hung up on the Prime Minister of Australia.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on February 01, 2017, 09:50:04 pm
He's making friends around the world, has apparently ripped the Australian PM a new one.   http://globalnews.ca/news/3221634/donald-trump-phone-call-australia/?sf54054445=1
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 01, 2017, 09:50:59 pm
Off the wall today?

He threatened to send troops into Mexico to deal with the "bad hombres." So much for political sovereignty.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 01, 2017, 09:53:27 pm
I'm more worried about bad omelettes when I'm in Mexico.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 01, 2017, 10:09:16 pm
Did he actually hang up on Australia's PM today?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 01, 2017, 10:11:40 pm
Apparently so:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-02/donald-trump-shared-worst-call-with-malcolm-turnbull/8234904
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on February 01, 2017, 10:17:01 pm
Yep, Trump is unable to hold a civil conversation with a centre right PM from an ally nation.

12 days in and time to consider the 25th amendment. 

 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution  (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 01, 2017, 11:24:38 pm
For those keeping score, I just saw a tweet - Donald Trump has in 12 days threatened action against 2 countries - Iran and Mexico.

They don't have to threaten to invade Australia.  Lucky for them, Obama left them 1500 (and growing) troops there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 02, 2017, 01:52:34 am
Yep, Trump is unable to hold a civil conversation with a centre right PM from an ally nation.

12 days in and time to consider the 25th amendment. 

 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution  (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution)

We both know that there is more to the story than trump blowing up and hanging up the phone.  What provoked him, what was Aussie pm's tone, etc. 

Then again part of me thinks it's trump making an example out of the Aussie pm to show adversaries whoever they may be that trump plays hardball.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 02, 2017, 07:12:30 am
Apparently Trump was tired. 

That this got leaked from the White House (again) shows that Trump doesn't really engender a lot of loyalty.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on February 02, 2017, 08:41:43 am
When the aussie PM stood up to the American bully the bully acted like a child.

No surprise there.

The man is unfit to be President.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: poochy on February 02, 2017, 09:55:44 am
It's gonna be a long, hopefully less than 4 years.  I thought this guy was supposed to be less interested in playing world policeman, except in all of the same places they always have and now maybe in Mexico.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 02, 2017, 01:14:37 pm
Today, Donald Trump decided that he can't wait 90 days to start NAFTA negotiations, as required by US law.  He can't even wait, in fact, for the US Trade Representative to be confirmed:

Quote
"I would like to speed it up if possible. You're the folks who can do it," Trump said during a meeting in the White House with a bipartisan group of politicians from the U.S. Senate and the House of Representatives.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/trump-nafta-negotiations-1.3963544
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 02, 2017, 01:42:06 pm
Today, Donald Trump decided that he can't wait 90 days to start NAFTA negotiations, as required by US law.  He can't even wait, in fact, for the US Trade Representative to be confirmed:

Quote
"I would like to speed it up if possible. You're the folks who can do it," Trump said during a meeting in the White House with a bipartisan group of politicians from the U.S. Senate and the House of Representatives.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/trump-nafta-negotiations-1.3963544

Thank god I got rid of the cows years ago.  This is my issue with trump.  As much as I like his stance on pipelines, taxes, and saving money, I am not a fan of excessive micromanaging of an economy.  It has been proven that free trade makes societies richer and I'm happier that Mexico is richer as it's more customers with money for products.  What the American people fail to realize is that being anti trade is a bandaid solution as they are going to handcuff their economy by cutting out a lot of customers. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 02, 2017, 01:44:00 pm
Today, Donald Trump decided that he can't wait 90 days to start NAFTA negotiations, as required by US law.  He can't even wait, in fact, for the US Trade Representative to be confirmed:

Quote
"I would like to speed it up if possible. You're the folks who can do it," Trump said during a meeting in the White House with a bipartisan group of politicians from the U.S. Senate and the House of Representatives.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/trump-nafta-negotiations-1.3963544

Thank god I got rid of the cows years ago.  This is my issue with trump.  As much as I like his stance on pipelines, taxes, and saving money, I am not a fan of excessive micromanaging of an economy.  It has been proven that free trade makes societies richer and I'm happier that Mexico is richer as it's more customers with money for products.  What the American people fail to realize is that being anti trade is a bandaid solution as they are going to handcuff their economy by cutting out a lot of customers.

I was actually listening to the radio and the talk was about how much power Mexico actually has in these negotiations.  They can decided to make it so the capital and jobs can't just leave, just as easy as Trump can decide he wants them back.  They also have a lot of power over the fresh food supply moving north.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on February 02, 2017, 07:10:35 pm
Whether or not its particularly significant I am not sure, but there are an awful lot of memes making fun of Trump.   Haven't seen any other political figures so mocked on social media.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 02, 2017, 07:33:38 pm
Whether or not its particularly significant I am not sure, but there are an awful lot of memes making fun of Trump.   Haven't seen any other political figures so mocked on social media.

GW bush presidency ended as social media became mainstream or he would have been hammered more
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 02, 2017, 07:46:34 pm
There are a lot of Conservatives on my Facebook.  Trudeau gets it about as much as Trump on my feed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 02, 2017, 08:09:57 pm
BTW, when Trump was talking to the Prime Minister of Australia, he spent much of his time bragging about his electoral college margin....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 02, 2017, 10:18:33 pm
I give the Australian PM credit for his tact and diplomacy in answering questions about the call then.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 02, 2017, 10:34:30 pm
I give the Australian PM credit for his tact and diplomacy in answering questions about the call then.

The Australian PM has a bit more leverage than other countries in dealing with the USA as they have a very strategic location and two very large customers for their products a short boy ride away.  So turnbull can get away with it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 03, 2017, 05:16:51 am
I'm not sure what you mean "get away with it." What I meant was that he showed a lot of restraint in talking about the situation. He could have gone to the media and just trashed Trump, but he chose his words carefully. He gave Trump a lot more respect than he probably deserved after that phone call.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 03, 2017, 07:37:55 am
Don't forget, there are US troops in Darwin - he's probably sacred Trump will threaten to invade him next.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 03, 2017, 11:51:41 am
I'm not sure what you mean "get away with it." What I meant was that he showed a lot of restraint in talking about the situation. He could have gone to the media and just trashed Trump, but he chose his words carefully. He gave Trump a lot more respect than he probably deserved after that phone call.

Getting away with getting under trump's skin to cause trump to have a blow.  Trump has a lot of political capital right now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 03, 2017, 12:23:32 pm
Trump can't take a bit of criticism or contrary opinion without going off the rails. In less than two weeks since he jumped on his bully pulpit, he has managed to get two allies to give him the finger, together with a botched raid in Yemen that the former administration wouldn't approve and appointed an ambassador to the EU who has publicly declared he would like to see the EU to disappear. How long until Vlad is his only "friend" left. Trump may have political capital at home but he seems intent on alienating all those countries which have supported the US for decades.

Australia is the biggest western power in the region. It's military while not large compared to China and a few other countries in the region, is well equipped, capable and in the process of being made even more capable. Australia has just signed a defence agreement with Japan. Next to the US, Australia is the biggest contributor to the fight against ISIL and if the US goes head to head with China in the South China Sea, it will need Australia's support bigly.

Dumb ass Trump jeopardizes all that, for what?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 03, 2017, 01:38:23 pm
Well so far we have Kellyanne Conway with her "alternative facts", Trumps press secretary and some of his cabinet spouting outright lies, bans on immigration, and an Attorney General fired for for pointing out the illegality of an Exec. Order. What's next, 2+2 equals 5? Things look a little grim, unlesss of course you happen to own the copyright to 1984.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 03, 2017, 03:52:59 pm
Well so far we have Kellyanne Conway with her "alternative facts", Trumps press secretary and some of his cabinet spouting outright lies, bans on immigration, and an Attorney General fired for for pointing out the illegality of an Exec. Order. What's next, 2+2 equals 5? Things look a little grim, unlesss of course you happen to own the copyright to 1984.

The attorney general was fired for not enforcing the executive order.  There is consensus that she had to go.  Whether or not she was in the right is up for debate.

All press secretaries conjure up malarkey.  Trump is at war with the press and the press is dancing to his music.  If the press wants to beat trump, they have to pick their fights with him or they lose credibility.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 03, 2017, 04:04:31 pm
The attorney general was fired for not enforcing the executive order.  There is consensus that she had to go.  Whether or not she was in the right is up for debate.

I have to go with you here.  She should have just carried out the order, or resigned.  I was wrong when I said differently. 

It's also in fact true that her department was consulted before the EO was signed. 

Quote
All press secretaries conjure up malarkey.  Trump is at war with the press and the press is dancing to his music.  If the press wants to beat trump, they have to pick their fights with him or they lose credibility.

Not like the crowd thing.  He ruined any credibility there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 03, 2017, 05:21:56 pm
I have to go with you here.  She should have just carried out the order, or resigned.  I was wrong when I said differently. 

It's also in fact true that her department was consulted before the EO was signed. 

Not like the crowd thing.  He ruined any credibility there.

Everyone knows a lot of what comes out of trumps mouth is fluff and/or made up.  I think his game is to get the media to bite on his made up fluff and to big themselves down in it so he rams his policy thru.  He has had a very active first 14 days and by having the press be outraged at every little thing he does is take their credibility away.  The press should pick their fights.  Trump is at war with the media and his goal is to turn people off of them, part of that is to paint them as crying wolf.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 03, 2017, 10:23:23 pm
The attorney general was fired for not enforcing the executive order.  There is consensus that she had to go.  Whether or not she was in the right is up for debate.

All press secretaries conjure up malarkey.  Trump is at war with the press and the press is dancing to his music.  If the press wants to beat trump, they have to pick their fights with him or they lose credibility.

The AG was fired because she provided her learned opinion as to the lagality of the Muslim ban. That's her job. Wimpy boy just got his nose out of joint.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 04, 2017, 12:39:34 am
Except there was consensus that trump was fine to can her for not doing her job. 

She is free to act on her beliefs and trump is free to can her
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 04, 2017, 07:44:27 am
Except there was consensus that trump was fine to can her for not doing her job. 

She is free to act on her beliefs and trump is free to can her
She wasn't acting on her "beliefs" though. She was acting on her professional understanding of the law and upholding the constitution according to her oath of office.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 04, 2017, 09:30:24 am
CNN head warns Trump. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/19/cnns-president-has-fired-a-warning-shot-at-donald-trump/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_2_na&utm_term=.9e1f5b5eaa45 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/19/cnns-president-has-fired-a-warning-shot-at-donald-trump/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_2_na&utm_term=.9e1f5b5eaa45)

Wonder how this will play out. He has a point, when I was flying overseas the two networks you could always seem to count on in hotels were CNN and BBC World, not FOX. Neither are going to be intimidated by Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 04, 2017, 11:05:10 am
The Obama years were extremely good for Fox News.

And if CNN becomes known as the news network that's not going to be intimidated by Trump, the Trump years will be very good for CNN.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 04, 2017, 11:13:56 am
Trump administration had a draft of an executive order to overturn Obama's protection for LGBT federal workers...  Ivanka Trump and her husband campaigned against it, leading to last week's White House statement that the protections will remain in place.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-lgbt-order-234617

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 04, 2017, 01:31:00 pm
So heading into week 2  we have a fired AG and now a federal judge putting a restraining order against a Trump EO. (travel plan) So the fight with the judicial branch seems to be simmering away, so I wonder how things are going over in Congress. Is this the start of 4 years of turmoil?

 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-idUSKBN15I1CM
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 04, 2017, 01:33:12 pm
CNN head warns Trump. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/19/cnns-president-has-fired-a-warning-shot-at-donald-trump/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_2_na&utm_term=.9e1f5b5eaa45 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/19/cnns-president-has-fired-a-warning-shot-at-donald-trump/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_2_na&utm_term=.9e1f5b5eaa45)

Wonder how this will play out. He has a point, when I was flying overseas the two networks you could always seem to count on in hotels were CNN and BBC World, not FOX. Neither are going to be intimidated by Trump.

Nobody will be intimidated by anyone.  Trump has pulled a fast one by getting the head of CNN to admit that if trump doesn't play nice there is to be biased coverage.  Now trump can yell fake news till he's blue in the face.  Given what streaming video online is doing to the tv industry there is no monopoly on news which is good as there are many people holding the whitehouse accountable and a lot of competition holding the press corps accountable.

The problem with too many talking heads is that there will never be a "free to choose" series which was fantastic. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 04, 2017, 01:59:44 pm
I think you give trump far too much credit.  I don't get any sense of organization of knowledge from this White House.  All I can see is chaos.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 04, 2017, 03:58:54 pm
Nobody will be intimidated by anyone.  Trump has pulled a fast one by getting the head of CNN to admit that if trump doesn't play nice there is to be biased coverage.  Now trump can yell fake news till he's blue in the face.  Given what streaming video online is doing to the tv industry there is no monopoly on news which is good as there are many people holding the whitehouse accountable and a lot of competition holding the press corps accountable.

The problem with too many talking heads is that there will never be a "free to choose" series which was fantastic.

One problem with Trump as he keeps putting out fake news (such his inauguration attendance #'s etc.) until he is, well, orange in the face. And there are those that buy it simply because he said it. And then when he does get caught out, he just says he didn't say it, and conjures up another illegal EO.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on February 04, 2017, 04:35:54 pm
I think you give trump far too much credit.  I don't get any sense of organization of knowledge from this White House.  All I can see is chaos.

Yea, every time one of his supporters says "It's a plan", I just shake my head.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 04, 2017, 05:00:46 pm
Nobody will be intimidated by anyone.  Trump has pulled a fast one by getting the head of CNN to admit that if trump doesn't play nice there is to be biased coverage.  Now trump can yell fake news till he's blue in the face.  Given what streaming video online is doing to the tv industry there is no monopoly on news which is good as there are many people holding the whitehouse accountable and a lot of competition holding the press corps accountable.

The problem with too many talking heads is that there will never be a "free to choose" series which was fantastic.

Yay, quote function works.

CNN International and BBC World Service are different animals from their domestic kin. If people see their reporting and it is backed up by their own and other media sources, Trump can scream fake all he wants but the rest of the world won't be buying it. They don't have to be biased, all they need are facts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 04, 2017, 05:11:01 pm
Yay, quote function works.

CNN International and BBC World Service are different animals from their domestic kin. If people see their reporting and it is backed up by their own and other media sources, Trump can scream fake all he wants but the rest of the world won't be buying it. They don't have to be biased, all they need are facts.

The problem being that trump simply doesn't care what foreigners have to say or think.  The USA has been playing nice for quite some time and a lot of people are in for a rude awakening.

Trump doesn't care if the things he puts out are fake.  If he keeps getting the media and the left to keep taking the bait, he makes the media and left look like people who aren't to be taken seriously. 

It's too bad that trump is such a meddler in the free market as otherwise it's nice to have the media and extreme leftisits start eating crow.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 04, 2017, 05:21:13 pm
The problem being that trump simply doesn't care what foreigners have to say or think.  The USA has been playing nice for quite some time and a lot of people are in for a rude awakening.

Trump doesn't care if the things he puts out are fake.  If he keeps getting the media and the left to keep taking the bait, he makes the media and left look like people who aren't to be taken seriously. 

It's too bad that trump is such a meddler in the free market as otherwise it's nice to have the media and extreme leftisits start eating crow.

If you live in a bubble and only watch FOX news, you would be quite correct. Trump may not care what the rest of the world thinks but the US is continually asking for support to legitimize its foreign adventures. Expect that support to dry up. His insulting the Australian PM is a good example. Australia has supported the US in every conflict since WW2, it had boots on the ground in Viet Nam and both Gulf wars. It still has troops in Afghanistan and is the US's biggest supporter against ISIL in the Middle East. What do they get but their head of government being trashed by Trump over a deal a US government made. "Make America Great" will become, "Make America Alone". All because of one single narcissist.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 04, 2017, 05:50:35 pm
If you live in a bubble and only watch FOX news, you would be quite correct. Trump may not care what the rest of the world thinks but the US is continually asking for support to legitimize its foreign adventures. Expect that support to dry up. His insulting the Australian PM is a good example. Australia has supported the US in every conflict since WW2, it had boots on the ground in Viet Nam and both Gulf wars. It still has troops in Afghanistan and is the US's biggest supporter against ISIL in the Middle East. What do they get but their head of government being trashed by Trump over a deal a US government made. "Make America Great" will become, "Make America Alone". All because of one single narcissist.

The last president was a narcissist too which makes trump replacing him all the more ironic.

Obama was also quite successful at pissing off his allies as well.  Obama didn't care and trump doesn't either.  Trump is wanting to show the American voters he is acting in their interests and not of foreign leaders.

The Americans wanted trump and they decided that they are willing to put up with his schtick if he gets their economy going.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 04, 2017, 07:38:30 pm
The last president was a narcissist too which makes trump replacing him all the more ironic.

Obama was also quite successful at pissing off his allies as well.  Obama didn't care and trump doesn't either.  Trump is wanting to show the American voters he is acting in their interests and not of foreign leaders.

The Americans wanted trump and they decided that they are willing to put up with his schtick if he gets their economy going.

A certain degree of narcissism is probably present in most leaders but comparing Obama to Trump as a narcissist is ridiculous. Name one box that Trump doesn't tick. The only thing I would question is bragging. There is nothing subtle about Trump's bragging.

Traits and signs of narcissism.


An obvious self-focus in interpersonal exchanges
Problems in sustaining satisfying relationships
A lack of psychological awareness (see insight in psychology and psychiatry, egosyntonic)
Difficulty with empathy
Problems distinguishing the self from others (see narcissism and boundaries)
Hypersensitivity to any insults or imagined insults (see criticism and narcissists, narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury)
Vulnerability to shame rather than guilt
Haughty body language
Flattery towards people who admire and affirm them (narcissistic supply)
Detesting those who do not admire them (narcissistic abuse)
Using other people without considering the cost of doing so
Pretending to be more important than they actually are
Bragging (subtly but persistently) and exaggerating their achievements
Claiming to be an "expert" at many things
Inability to view the world from the perspective of other people
Denial of remorse and gratitude
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 04, 2017, 07:40:23 pm
It's all part of Trump's plan. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 04, 2017, 09:15:07 pm
The last president was a narcissist too which makes trump replacing him all the more ironic.

Obama was also quite successful at pissing off his allies as well.  Obama didn't care and trump doesn't either. 
That's like a terrible regurgitation of the "two equally terrible candidates" meme of the election. It was BS then too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 04, 2017, 10:14:50 pm
That's like a terrible regurgitation of the "two equally terrible candidates" meme of the election. It was BS then too.

Lol that's not my problem the Americans are having trouble nominating candidates for president.  I was a walker and Rubio guy.

At least bill Clinton knew enough to work with congress.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 05, 2017, 10:56:44 am
Lol that's not my problem the Americans are having trouble nominating candidates for president.  I was a walker and Rubio guy.

At least bill Clinton knew enough to work with congress.
I wouldn't say they're having trouble. The people with the money and power are giving the peons a "choice" between their lapdogs. So they're not having trouble at all; it's the rest of America that's in trouble.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on February 05, 2017, 01:35:38 pm
David Axelrod wondering if the Churchill bust in the Oval office has demanded to be removed upon learning of Trump's likening US practices to Russian practices, has to be the tweet of the morning.

Nevermind this bizarro world where even the VP is unwilling to clearly state that the US is morally superior to Russia: https://twitter.com/ryanlizza/status/828293834253688832

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2017, 10:34:13 pm
The last president was a narcissist too which makes trump replacing him all the more ironic.

Obama was also quite successful at pissing off his allies as well.  Obama didn't care and trump doesn't either.  Trump is wanting to show the American voters he is acting in their interests and not of foreign leaders.

The Americans wanted trump and they decided that they are willing to put up with his schtick if he gets their economy going.

Obama couldn't hold a candle to Trump in terms of narcissism. Just ake a quick look back at the debates and you will see what I mean. And cozying up to Putin tends to counter your comment on foreign leaders. And tax cuts to the wealthy combined with huge spending plans, well, we'll see what effect that has on the economy. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 06, 2017, 02:16:10 pm
Any bad polls are fake news.  Any good polls are obviously not fake news.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 06, 2017, 02:34:38 pm
Obama couldn't hold a candle to Trump in terms of narcissism. Just ake a quick look back at the debates and you will see what I mean. And cozying up to Putin tends to counter your comment on foreign leaders. And tax cuts to the wealthy combined with huge spending plans, well, we'll see what effect that has on the economy.

Obama is narcissistic as is trump.  Full stop.

Trump is promising tax cuts across the board and looking at Ireland tax cuts seem to be working.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 06, 2017, 02:45:07 pm
Some of you have probably seen this Mencken quote from 1920, so has the land finally reached its hearts desire?

Quote
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on February 06, 2017, 03:05:49 pm
Now the media are not reporting terrorist attacks for "their own reasons."

Yes, it has come to this: if they are not fortunate enough to have a terrorist attack occur so they can justify policy then they will lie about them (Bowling Green Massacre) or tell lies about the media suppressing them.

Wilber is right that the morons have won.

Maybe we should hope so because the next step would be to have a black ops terrorist attack since the real terrorists and media are not cooperating with the state thus far (well, Fox and Breitbart are playing ball).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Peter F on February 06, 2017, 03:57:04 pm
Now the media are not reporting terrorist attacks for "their own reasons."

Yes, it has come to this: if they are not fortunate enough to have a terrorist attack occur so they can justify policy then they will lie about them (Bowling Green Massacre) or tell lies about the media suppressing them.

'''

It's awful convenient for the 'We're in great danger!' people.  Even if you never hear about terrorist attacks know that they are happening all the time anyways!   Apparently it is unconstitutional or something for the state mention all these terror attacks once the MSM decree's they shall not be reported.  Even courts can't mention them it seems. Why the terrorists are running rampant and the poor helpless President can't do a thing about all that terrorist-stuff happening right now.  He tried the feeble ExOrder that would stop terrorists from flowing in for 90/120 days - which did nothing for all the terroristing that we don't hear about anymore - and a mere judge pulled the rug out from under that! Powerful man, that Prez.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on February 06, 2017, 03:58:40 pm
Now the media are not reporting terrorist attacks for "their own reasons."

Did he actually say terrorist attacks, or is he referring to the behavior of certain European media, police and governments to downplay Muslim crime, esp sexual attacks on non-Muslims, lest it be seen as racist, or cause people to think less highly of multiculturalism?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on February 06, 2017, 04:09:39 pm
Let me google that for you: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/02/06/president-trump-is-now-speculating-that-the-media-is-covering-up-terrorist-attacks/?utm_term=.8a069277da0b

There is even a video for all to see his lips move.

I would like to know which terrorist attacks have not been reported but it is far easier to claim some have not been reported than to demonstrate whoch have occurred and have been reported.

Perhaps that Bowling Green Massacre one Anne Conway keeps talking about to Cosmo Magazine and to TMZ?

You know that one, right? It's the one that never happened.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 06, 2017, 04:22:04 pm
Quote
Obama is narcissistic as is trump.

Really?  LOL

That comment actually made me laugh at my computer screen!   Your cognitive dissonance when it comes to Trump (or Obama) is hilarious!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 06, 2017, 09:29:16 pm
I'm saying they are both narcissistic. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 06, 2017, 09:41:10 pm
I'm saying they are both narcissistic.

I'd say one is a lot more so though, wouldn't you?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Peter F on February 06, 2017, 11:12:37 pm
Now the media are not reporting terrorist attacks for "their own reasons."

Yes, it has come to this: if they are not fortunate enough to have a terrorist attack occur so they can justify policy then they will lie about them (Bowling Green Massacre) or tell lies about the media suppressing them.

Wilber is right that the morons have won.

Maybe we should hope so because the next step would be to have a black ops terrorist attack since the real terrorists and media are not cooperating with the state thus far (well, Fox and Breitbart are playing ball).

and Here's the list of Under-reported terrorist attacks. Kindly provided by the white-house to NPR (amongst others)Here's the entire unedited list of 78 attacks from September 2014 to December 2016 provided by the White House:
[url]http://www.npr.org/2017/02/06/513777052/trump-says-media-fail-to-report-terrorist-attacks-white-house-promises-list/[url]
also Washington Post here: [url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/02/06/here-are-the-78-terrorist-attacks-the-white-house-says-were-largely-under-reported/?utm_term=.76db65d70ec8/[url]

MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA
September, 2014
TARGET: Two police officers wounded in knife attack
ATTACKER: Abdul Numan Haider

TIZI OUZOU, ALGERIA
September, 2014
TARGET: One French citizen beheaded
ATTACKER: Jund al-Khilafah in Algeria

QUEBEC, CANADA
October, 2014
TARGET: One soldier killed and one wounded in vehicle attack
ATTACKER: Martin Couture-Rouleau

OTTAWA, CANADA
October, 2014
TARGET: One soldier killed at war memorial; two wounded in shootings at Parliament building
ATTACKER: Michael Zehaf-Bibeau

NEW YORK CITY, NY, USA
October, 2014
TARGET: Two police officers wounded in knife attack
ATTACKER: US person
RIYADH, SAUDI ARABIA
November, 2014
TARGET: One Danish citizen wounded in shooting
ATTACKERS: Three Saudi Arabia-based ISIL members

ABU DHABI, UAE
DATE: December 2014
TARGET: One American killed in knife attack
ATTACKER: Dalal al-Hashimi

SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA
December, 2014
TARGET: Two Australians killed in hostage taking and shooting
ATTACKER: Man Haron Monis

TOURS, FRANCE
December, 2014
TARGET: Three police officers wounded in knife attack
ATTACKER: Bertrand Nzohabonayo

PARIS, FRANCE
January, 2015
TARGET: One police officer and four hostages killed in shooting at a kosher supermarket
ATTACKER: Amedy Coulibaly

TRIPOLI, LIBYA
January, 2015
TARGET: Ten killed, including one US citizen, and five wounded in bombing and shooting at a hotel frequented by westerners
ATTACKERS: As many as five ISIL-Libya members

RIYADH, SAUDI ARABIA
January, 2015
TARGET: Two US citizens wounded in shooting
ATTACKER: Saudi Arabia-based ISIL supporter

NICE, FRANCE
February, 2015
TARGET: Two French soldiers wounded in knife attack outside a Jewish community center
ATTACKER: Moussa Coulibaly

COPENHAGEN, DENMARK
February, 2015
TARGET: One civilian killed in shooting at a free-speech rally and one security guard killed outside the city's main synagogue
ATTACKER: Omar Abdel Hamid el-Hussein

TUNIS, TUNISIA
March, 2015
TARGET: 21 tourists killed, including 16 westerners, and 55 wounded in shooting at the Bardo Museum
ATTACKERS: Two ISIL-aligned extremists

KARACHI, PAKISTAN
April, 2015
TARGET: One US citizen wounded in knife attack
ATTACKERS: Pakistan-based ISIL supporters

PARIS, FRANCE
April, 2015
TARGET: Catholic churches targeted; one civilian killed in shooting, possibly during an attempted carjacking
ATTACKER: Sid Ahmed Ghlam

ZVORNIK, BOSNIA
April, 2015
TARGET: One police officer killed and two wounded in shooting
ATTACKER: Nerdin Ibric

GARLAND, TX, USA
May, 2015
TARGET: One security guard wounded in shooting at the Prophet Muhammad cartoon event
ATTACKERS: Two US persons

BOSTON, MA, USA
June, 2015
TARGET: No casualties; one police officer attacked with knife
ATTACKER: US person

EL GORA (AL JURAH), EGYPT
June, 2015
TARGET: No casualties; camp used by Multinational Force and Observers (MFO) troops attacked in shooting and bombing attack
ATTACKERS: Unknown number of ISIL-Sinai members

LUXOR, EGYPT
June, 2015
TARGET: One police officer killed by suicide bomb near the Temple of Karnak
ATTACKER: Unidentified

SOUSSE, TUNISIA
June, 2015
TARGET: 38 killed and 39 wounded in shooting at a beach frequented by westerners
ATTACKERS: Seifeddine Rezgui and another unidentified attacker

LYON, FRANCE
June, 2015
TARGET: One civilian killed in beheading and explosion at a chemical plant
ATTACKER: Yasin Salhi

CAIRO, EGYPT
July, 2015
TARGET: One killed and nine wounded in VBIED attack at Italian Consulate
ATTACKER: Unidentified ISIL operatives
CAIRO, EGYPT
July, 2015
TARGET: One Croatian national kidnapped; beheaded on August 12 at an unknown location
ATTACKER: Unidentified ISIL-Sinai operative

PARIS, FRANCE
August, 2015
TARGET: Two civilians and one US soldier wounded with firearms and knife on a passenger train
ATTACKER: Ayoub el-Khazzani

EL GORA, EGYPT
September, 2015
TARGET: Four US and two MFO troops wounded in IED attack
ATTACKER: Unidentified

DHAKA, BANGLADESH
September, 2015
TARGET: One Italian civilian killed in shooting
ATTACKER: Unidentified

COPENHAGEN, DENMARK
September, 2015
TARGET: One police officer wounded in knife attack
ATTAKER: Palestinian national

EL GORA, EGYPT
October, 2015
TARGET: No casualties; airfield used by MFO attacked with rockets
ATTAKER: Unidentified ISIL-Sinai operatives

PARRAMATTA, AUSTRALIA
October, 2015
TARGET: One police officer killed in shooting
ATTAKER: Farhad Jabar

RANGPUR, BANGLADESH
October, 2015
TARGET: One Japanese civilian killed in shooting
ATTAKER: Unidentified

HASANAH, EGYPT
October, 2015
TARGET: 224 killed in downing of a Russian airliner
ATTAKER: Unidentified ISIL-Sinai operatives
MERCED, CA, US
November, 2015
TARGET: Four wounded in knife attack on a college campus
ATTAKER: US person

PARIS, FRANCE
November, 2015
TARGET: At least 129 killed and approximately 400 wounded in series of shootings and IED attacks
ATTAKERS: Brahim Abdelslam, Saleh Abdeslam, Ismail Mostefai, Bilal Hadfi, Samy Amimour, Chakib Ahrouh, Foued Mohamed Aggad, and Abdelhamid Abaaoud

DINAJPUR, BANGLADESH
November, 2015
TARGET: One Italian citizen wounded in shooting
ATTAKER: Unidentified

RAJLOVAC, BOSNIA
December, 2015
TARGET: Two Bosnian soldiers killed in shooting
ATTAKER: Enes Omeragic

SAN BERNADINO, CA, US
December, 2015
TARGET: 14 killed and 21 wounded in coordinated firearms attack
ATTAKERS: Two US persons

LONDON, ENGLAND, UK
December, 2015
TARGET: Three wounded in knife attack at an underground rail station
ATTAKER: Muhyadin Mire

DERBENT, RUSSIA
December, 2015
TARGET: One killed and 11 wounded in shooting at UN World Heritage site
ATTAKER: Unidentified ISIL-Caucasus operative

CAIRO, EGYPT
January, 2016
TARGET: Two wounded in drive-by shooting outside a hotel frequented by tourists
ATTAKERS: Unidentified ISIL operatives

PARIS, FRANCE
January, 2016
TARGET: No casualties; attacker killed after attempted knife attack on Paris police station
ATTAKER: Tarek Belgacem

PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA
January, 2016
TARGET: One police officer wounded in shooting
ATTAKER: US person

HURGHADA, EGYPT
January, 2016
TARGET: One German and one Danish national wounded in knife attack at a tourist resort
ATTAKER: Unidentified

MARSEILLES, FRANCE
January, 2016
TARGET: One Jewish teacher wounded in machete attack
ATTAKER: 15 year-old Ethnic Kurd from Turkey

ISTANBUL, TURKEY
January, 2016
TARGET: 12 German tourists killed and 15 wounded in suicide bombing
ATTAKER: Nabil Fadli

JAKARTA, INDONESIA
January, 2016
TARGET: Four civilians killed and more than 20 wounded in coordinated bombing and firearms attacks near a police station and a Starbucks
ATTAKERS: Dian Joni Kurnaiadi, Muhammad Ali, Arif Sunakim, and Ahmad Muhazan bin Saron

COLUMBUS, OH, US
February, 2016
TARGET: Four civilians wounded in machete attack at a restaurant
ATTAKER: US person

HANOVER, GERMANY
February, 2016
TARGET: One police officer wounded in knife attack
ATTAKER: Safia Schmitter

ISTANBUL, TURKEY
March, 2016
TARGET: Four killed and 36 wounded in suicide bombing in the tourist district
ATTAKER: Mehmet Ozturk

BRUSSELS, BELGIUM
March, 2016
TARGET: At least 31 killed and 270 wounded in coordinated bombings at Zaventem Airport and on a subway train
ATTAKERS: Khalid el-Bakraoui, Ibrahim el-Bakraoui, Najim Laachraoui, Mohammed Abrini, and Osama Krayem

ESSEN, GERMANY
April, 2016
TARGET: Three wounded in bombing at Sikh temple
ATTAKERS: Three identified minors

ORLANDO, FL, US
June, 2016
TARGET: 49 killed and 53 wounded in shooting at a nightclub
ATTAKER: US person

MAGNANVILLE, FRANCE
June, 2016
TARGET: One police officer and one civilian killed in knife attack
ATTAKER: Larossi Abballa

KABUL, AFGHANISTAN
June, 2016
TARGET: 14 killed in suicide attack on a bus carrying Canadian Embassy guards
ATTAKER: ISIL-Khorasan operative

ISTANBUL, TURKEY
June, 2016
TARGET: 45 killed and approximately 240 wounded at Ataturk International Airport
ATTACKERS: Rakhim Bulgarov, Vadim Osmanov, and an unidentified ISIL operative

DHAKA, BANGLADESH
July, 2016
TARGET: 22 killed, including one American and 50 wounded after hours-long siege using machetes and firearms at holy Artisan Bakery
ATTACKERS: Nibras Islam, Rohan Imtiaz, Meer Saameh Mubasheer, Khairul Islam Paye, and Shafiqul Islam Uzzal

NICE, FRANCE
July, 2016
TARGET: 84 civilians killed and 308 wounded by an individual who drove a truck into a crowd
ATTACKER: Mohamed Bouhlel

WURZBURG, GERMANY
July, 2016
TARGET: Four civilians wounded in axe attack on a train
ATTACKER: Riaz Khan Ahmadzai

ANSBACH, GERMANY
July, 2016
TARGET: At least 15 wounded in suicide bombing at a music festival
ATTACKER: Mohammad Daleel

NORMANDY, FRANCE
July, 2016
TARGET: One priest killed in knife attack
ATTACKERS: Adel Kermiche and Abdel Malik Nabil Petitjean

CHALEROI, BELGIUM
August, 2016
TARGET: Two police officers wounded in machete attack
ATTACKER: Khaled Babouri

QUEENSLAND, AUSTRALIA
August, 2016
TARGET: Two killed and one wounded in knife attack at a hostel frequented by Westerners
ATTACKER: Smail Ayad

COPENHAGEN, DENMAKR
September, 2016
TARGET: Two police officers and a civilian wounded in shooting
ATTACKER: Mesa Hodzic

PARIS, FRANCE
September, 2016
TARGET: One police officer wounded in raid after VBIED failed to detonate at Notre Dame Cathedral
ATTACKERS: Sarah Hervouet, Ines Madani, and Amel Sakaou

SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA
September, 2016
TARGET: One civilian wounded in knife attack
ATTACKER: Ihsas Khan

CLOUD, MN, US
September, 2016
TARGET: 10 wounded in knife attack in a mall
ATTACKER: Dahir Ahmed Adan

NEW YORK, NY; SEASIDE PARK AND ELIZABETH, NJ, US
September, 2016
TARGET: 31 wounded in bombing in New York City; several explosive devices found in New York and New Jersey; one exploded without casualty at race in New Jersey; one police officer wounded in shootout
ATTACKER: Ahmad Khan Rahami

BRUSSELS, BELGIUM
October, 2016
TARGET: Two police officers wounded in stabbing
ATTACKER: Belgian national

KUWAIT CITY, KUWAIT
TARGET: No casualties; vehicle carrying three US soldiers hit by a truck
ATTACKER: Ibrahim Sulayman

MALMO, SWEDEN
October, 2016
TARGET: No casualties; mosque and community center attacked with Molotov cocktail
ATTACKER: Syrian national

HAMBURG, GERMANY
October, 2016
TARGET: One killed in knife attack
ATTACKER: Unknown

MANILA, PHILIPPINES
November, 2016
TARGET: No casualties; failed IED attempt near US Embassy
ATTACKERS: Philippine nationals aligned with the Maute group

COLUMBUS, OH, US
November, 2016
TARGET: 14 wounded by individuals who drove a vehicle into a group of pedestrians and attacked them with a knife
ATTACKER: US person

N'DJAMENA, CHAD
November, 2016
TARGET: No casualties; attacker arrested after opening fire at entrance of US Embassy
ATTACKER: Chadian national

KARAK, JORDAN
December, 2016
TARGET: 10 killed and 28 wounded in shooting at a tourist site
ATTACKERS: Several gunmen

BERLIN, GERMANY
December, 2016
TARGET: 12 killed and 48 wounded by individual who drove truck into a crowded market
ATTACKER: Anis Amri
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Peter F on February 06, 2017, 11:13:59 pm
Holy Moly! These guys in the Whitehouse are absolutely Loopy!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 07, 2017, 12:23:54 am
I'm saying they are both narcissistic.

Obama was the first black dude to hold the highest office in the US, and he was far from narcissistic as one can get. Trump is probably the most narcissistic I can recall. Who but a narcissist would plant a raccoon on top of their head and then paint their skin orange, before talking about how cool it is to grab womens genitals? But there are dolts who buy this shyte.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 07, 2017, 12:41:27 am
Obama was the first black dude to hold the highest office in the US, and he was far from narcissistic as one can get. Trump is probably the most narcissistic I can recall. Who but a narcissist would plant a raccoon on top of their head and then paint their skin orange, before talking about how cool it is to grab womens genitals? But there are dolts who buy this shyte.

So because obama is black he gets a pass on narcissm?  Nobody is saying trump is not narcissistic.  I agree trump is narcissistic, however so is obama which makes it poetic justice that he got replaced by someone like Donald trump even though Rubio/walker would have been better.

You can google obama is narcissistic and find multiple articles.  If there's smoke there's fire...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 07, 2017, 08:07:49 am
You can google obama is narcissistic and find multiple articles.  If there's smoke there's fire...
I can Google "Elvis Lives" or "Sasquatch Sighted" and get a bunch of articles too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 07, 2017, 12:32:29 pm

PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA
January, 2016
TARGET: One police officer wounded in shooting
ATTAKER: US person

HURGHADA, EGYPT
January, 2016
TARGET: One German and one Danish national wounded in knife attack at a tourist resort
ATTAKER: Unidentified

MARSEILLES, FRANCE
January, 2016
TARGET: One Jewish teacher wounded in machete attack
ATTAKER: 15 year-old Ethnic Kurd from Turkey

ISTANBUL, TURKEY
January, 2016
TARGET: 12 German tourists killed and 15 wounded in suicide bombing
ATTAKER: Nabil Fadli

JAKARTA, INDONESIA
January, 2016
TARGET: Four civilians killed and more than 20 wounded in coordinated bombing and firearms attacks near a police station and a Starbucks
ATTAKERS: Dian Joni Kurnaiadi, Muhammad Ali, Arif Sunakim, and Ahmad Muhazan bin Saron
That's not how you spell attacker.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 07, 2017, 04:27:45 pm
and Here's the list of Under-reported terrorist attacks. Kindly provided by the white-house to NPR (amongst others)Here's the entire unedited list of 78 attacks from September 2014 to December 2016 provided by the White House:
[url]http://www.npr.org/2017/02/06/513777052/trump-says-media-fail-to-report-terrorist-attacks-white-house-promises-list/[url]
also Washington Post here: [url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/02/06/here-are-the-78-terrorist-attacks-the-white-house-says-were-largely-under-reported/?utm_term=.76db65d70ec8/[url]

MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA
September, 2014
TARGET: Two police officers wounded in knife attack
ATTACKER: Abdul Numan Haider

TIZI OUZOU, ALGERIA
September, 2014
TARGET: One French citizen beheaded
ATTACKER: Jund al-Khilafah in Algeria

QUEBEC, CANADA
October, 2014
TARGET: One soldier killed and one wounded in vehicle attack
ATTACKER: Martin Couture-Rouleau

OTTAWA, CANADA
October, 2014
TARGET: One soldier killed at war memorial; two wounded in shootings at Parliament building
ATTACKER: Michael Zehaf-Bibeau

NEW YORK CITY, NY, USA
October, 2014
TARGET: Two police officers wounded in knife attack
ATTACKER: US person
RIYADH, SAUDI ARABIA
November, 2014
TARGET: One Danish citizen wounded in shooting
ATTACKERS: Three Saudi Arabia-based ISIL members

ABU DHABI, UAE
DATE: December 2014
TARGET: One American killed in knife attack
ATTACKER: Dalal al-Hashimi

SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA
December, 2014
TARGET: Two Australians killed in hostage taking and shooting
ATTACKER: Man Haron Monis

TOURS, FRANCE
December, 2014
TARGET: Three police officers wounded in knife attack
ATTACKER: Bertrand Nzohabonayo

PARIS, FRANCE
January, 2015
TARGET: One police officer and four hostages killed in shooting at a kosher supermarket
ATTACKER: Amedy Coulibaly

TRIPOLI, LIBYA
January, 2015
TARGET: Ten killed, including one US citizen, and five wounded in bombing and shooting at a hotel frequented by westerners
ATTACKERS: As many as five ISIL-Libya members

RIYADH, SAUDI ARABIA
January, 2015
TARGET: Two US citizens wounded in shooting
ATTACKER: Saudi Arabia-based ISIL supporter

NICE, FRANCE
February, 2015
TARGET: Two French soldiers wounded in knife attack outside a Jewish community center
ATTACKER: Moussa Coulibaly

COPENHAGEN, DENMARK
February, 2015
TARGET: One civilian killed in shooting at a free-speech rally and one security guard killed outside the city's main synagogue
ATTACKER: Omar Abdel Hamid el-Hussein

TUNIS, TUNISIA
March, 2015
TARGET: 21 tourists killed, including 16 westerners, and 55 wounded in shooting at the Bardo Museum
ATTACKERS: Two ISIL-aligned extremists

KARACHI, PAKISTAN
April, 2015
TARGET: One US citizen wounded in knife attack
ATTACKERS: Pakistan-based ISIL supporters

PARIS, FRANCE
April, 2015
TARGET: Catholic churches targeted; one civilian killed in shooting, possibly during an attempted carjacking
ATTACKER: Sid Ahmed Ghlam

ZVORNIK, BOSNIA
April, 2015
TARGET: One police officer killed and two wounded in shooting
ATTACKER: Nerdin Ibric

GARLAND, TX, USA
May, 2015
TARGET: One security guard wounded in shooting at the Prophet Muhammad cartoon event
ATTACKERS: Two US persons

BOSTON, MA, USA
June, 2015
TARGET: No casualties; one police officer attacked with knife
ATTACKER: US person

EL GORA (AL JURAH), EGYPT
June, 2015
TARGET: No casualties; camp used by Multinational Force and Observers (MFO) troops attacked in shooting and bombing attack
ATTACKERS: Unknown number of ISIL-Sinai members

LUXOR, EGYPT
June, 2015
TARGET: One police officer killed by suicide bomb near the Temple of Karnak
ATTACKER: Unidentified

SOUSSE, TUNISIA
June, 2015
TARGET: 38 killed and 39 wounded in shooting at a beach frequented by westerners
ATTACKERS: Seifeddine Rezgui and another unidentified attacker

LYON, FRANCE
June, 2015
TARGET: One civilian killed in beheading and explosion at a chemical plant
ATTACKER: Yasin Salhi

CAIRO, EGYPT
July, 2015
TARGET: One killed and nine wounded in VBIED attack at Italian Consulate
ATTACKER: Unidentified ISIL operatives
CAIRO, EGYPT
July, 2015
TARGET: One Croatian national kidnapped; beheaded on August 12 at an unknown location
ATTACKER: Unidentified ISIL-Sinai operative

PARIS, FRANCE
August, 2015
TARGET: Two civilians and one US soldier wounded with firearms and knife on a passenger train
ATTACKER: Ayoub el-Khazzani

EL GORA, EGYPT
September, 2015
TARGET: Four US and two MFO troops wounded in IED attack
ATTACKER: Unidentified

DHAKA, BANGLADESH
September, 2015
TARGET: One Italian civilian killed in shooting
ATTACKER: Unidentified

COPENHAGEN, DENMARK
September, 2015
TARGET: One police officer wounded in knife attack
ATTAKER: Palestinian national

EL GORA, EGYPT
October, 2015
TARGET: No casualties; airfield used by MFO attacked with rockets
ATTAKER: Unidentified ISIL-Sinai operatives

PARRAMATTA, AUSTRALIA
October, 2015
TARGET: One police officer killed in shooting
ATTAKER: Farhad Jabar

RANGPUR, BANGLADESH
October, 2015
TARGET: One Japanese civilian killed in shooting
ATTAKER: Unidentified

HASANAH, EGYPT
October, 2015
TARGET: 224 killed in downing of a Russian airliner
ATTAKER: Unidentified ISIL-Sinai operatives
MERCED, CA, US
November, 2015
TARGET: Four wounded in knife attack on a college campus
ATTAKER: US person

PARIS, FRANCE
November, 2015
TARGET: At least 129 killed and approximately 400 wounded in series of shootings and IED attacks
ATTAKERS: Brahim Abdelslam, Saleh Abdeslam, Ismail Mostefai, Bilal Hadfi, Samy Amimour, Chakib Ahrouh, Foued Mohamed Aggad, and Abdelhamid Abaaoud

DINAJPUR, BANGLADESH
November, 2015
TARGET: One Italian citizen wounded in shooting
ATTAKER: Unidentified

RAJLOVAC, BOSNIA
December, 2015
TARGET: Two Bosnian soldiers killed in shooting
ATTAKER: Enes Omeragic

SAN BERNADINO, CA, US
December, 2015
TARGET: 14 killed and 21 wounded in coordinated firearms attack
ATTAKERS: Two US persons

LONDON, ENGLAND, UK
December, 2015
TARGET: Three wounded in knife attack at an underground rail station
ATTAKER: Muhyadin Mire

DERBENT, RUSSIA
December, 2015
TARGET: One killed and 11 wounded in shooting at UN World Heritage site
ATTAKER: Unidentified ISIL-Caucasus operative

CAIRO, EGYPT
January, 2016
TARGET: Two wounded in drive-by shooting outside a hotel frequented by tourists
ATTAKERS: Unidentified ISIL operatives

PARIS, FRANCE
January, 2016
TARGET: No casualties; attacker killed after attempted knife attack on Paris police station
ATTAKER: Tarek Belgacem

PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA
January, 2016
TARGET: One police officer wounded in shooting
ATTAKER: US person

HURGHADA, EGYPT
January, 2016
TARGET: One German and one Danish national wounded in knife attack at a tourist resort
ATTAKER: Unidentified

MARSEILLES, FRANCE
January, 2016
TARGET: One Jewish teacher wounded in machete attack
ATTAKER: 15 year-old Ethnic Kurd from Turkey

ISTANBUL, TURKEY
January, 2016
TARGET: 12 German tourists killed and 15 wounded in suicide bombing
ATTAKER: Nabil Fadli

JAKARTA, INDONESIA
January, 2016
TARGET: Four civilians killed and more than 20 wounded in coordinated bombing and firearms attacks near a police station and a Starbucks
ATTAKERS: Dian Joni Kurnaiadi, Muhammad Ali, Arif Sunakim, and Ahmad Muhazan bin Saron

COLUMBUS, OH, US
February, 2016
TARGET: Four civilians wounded in machete attack at a restaurant
ATTAKER: US person

HANOVER, GERMANY
February, 2016
TARGET: One police officer wounded in knife attack
ATTAKER: Safia Schmitter

ISTANBUL, TURKEY
March, 2016
TARGET: Four killed and 36 wounded in suicide bombing in the tourist district
ATTAKER: Mehmet Ozturk

BRUSSELS, BELGIUM
March, 2016
TARGET: At least 31 killed and 270 wounded in coordinated bombings at Zaventem Airport and on a subway train
ATTAKERS: Khalid el-Bakraoui, Ibrahim el-Bakraoui, Najim Laachraoui, Mohammed Abrini, and Osama Krayem

ESSEN, GERMANY
April, 2016
TARGET: Three wounded in bombing at Sikh temple
ATTAKERS: Three identified minors

ORLANDO, FL, US
June, 2016
TARGET: 49 killed and 53 wounded in shooting at a nightclub
ATTAKER: US person

MAGNANVILLE, FRANCE
June, 2016
TARGET: One police officer and one civilian killed in knife attack
ATTAKER: Larossi Abballa

KABUL, AFGHANISTAN
June, 2016
TARGET: 14 killed in suicide attack on a bus carrying Canadian Embassy guards
ATTAKER: ISIL-Khorasan operative

ISTANBUL, TURKEY
June, 2016
TARGET: 45 killed and approximately 240 wounded at Ataturk International Airport
ATTACKERS: Rakhim Bulgarov, Vadim Osmanov, and an unidentified ISIL operative

DHAKA, BANGLADESH
July, 2016
TARGET: 22 killed, including one American and 50 wounded after hours-long siege using machetes and firearms at holy Artisan Bakery
ATTACKERS: Nibras Islam, Rohan Imtiaz, Meer Saameh Mubasheer, Khairul Islam Paye, and Shafiqul Islam Uzzal

NICE, FRANCE
July, 2016
TARGET: 84 civilians killed and 308 wounded by an individual who drove a truck into a crowd
ATTACKER: Mohamed Bouhlel

WURZBURG, GERMANY
July, 2016
TARGET: Four civilians wounded in axe attack on a train
ATTACKER: Riaz Khan Ahmadzai

ANSBACH, GERMANY
July, 2016
TARGET: At least 15 wounded in suicide bombing at a music festival
ATTACKER: Mohammad Daleel

NORMANDY, FRANCE
July, 2016
TARGET: One priest killed in knife attack
ATTACKERS: Adel Kermiche and Abdel Malik Nabil Petitjean

CHALEROI, BELGIUM
August, 2016
TARGET: Two police officers wounded in machete attack
ATTACKER: Khaled Babouri

QUEENSLAND, AUSTRALIA
August, 2016
TARGET: Two killed and one wounded in knife attack at a hostel frequented by Westerners
ATTACKER: Smail Ayad

COPENHAGEN, DENMAKR
September, 2016
TARGET: Two police officers and a civilian wounded in shooting
ATTACKER: Mesa Hodzic

PARIS, FRANCE
September, 2016
TARGET: One police officer wounded in raid after VBIED failed to detonate at Notre Dame Cathedral
ATTACKERS: Sarah Hervouet, Ines Madani, and Amel Sakaou

SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA
September, 2016
TARGET: One civilian wounded in knife attack
ATTACKER: Ihsas Khan

CLOUD, MN, US
September, 2016
TARGET: 10 wounded in knife attack in a mall
ATTACKER: Dahir Ahmed Adan

NEW YORK, NY; SEASIDE PARK AND ELIZABETH, NJ, US
September, 2016
TARGET: 31 wounded in bombing in New York City; several explosive devices found in New York and New Jersey; one exploded without casualty at race in New Jersey; one police officer wounded in shootout
ATTACKER: Ahmad Khan Rahami

BRUSSELS, BELGIUM
October, 2016
TARGET: Two police officers wounded in stabbing
ATTACKER: Belgian national

KUWAIT CITY, KUWAIT
TARGET: No casualties; vehicle carrying three US soldiers hit by a truck
ATTACKER: Ibrahim Sulayman

MALMO, SWEDEN
October, 2016
TARGET: No casualties; mosque and community center attacked with Molotov cocktail
ATTACKER: Syrian national

HAMBURG, GERMANY
October, 2016
TARGET: One killed in knife attack
ATTACKER: Unknown

MANILA, PHILIPPINES
November, 2016
TARGET: No casualties; failed IED attempt near US Embassy
ATTACKERS: Philippine nationals aligned with the Maute group

COLUMBUS, OH, US
November, 2016
TARGET: 14 wounded by individuals who drove a vehicle into a group of pedestrians and attacked them with a knife
ATTACKER: US person

N'DJAMENA, CHAD
November, 2016
TARGET: No casualties; attacker arrested after opening fire at entrance of US Embassy
ATTACKER: Chadian national

KARAK, JORDAN
December, 2016
TARGET: 10 killed and 28 wounded in shooting at a tourist site
ATTACKERS: Several gunmen

BERLIN, GERMANY
December, 2016
TARGET: 12 killed and 48 wounded by individual who drove truck into a crowded market
ATTACKER: Anis Amri

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/02/07/usa-today-white-house-donald-trump-terrorist-attacks/97584176/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on February 07, 2017, 06:18:35 pm
The media have been covering up that murder is at a 47 year high in the United States!

Damn MSM! They can't be trusted!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on February 07, 2017, 07:13:13 pm
Damn MSM! They can't be trusted!

FBI neither, since that is based on their UCR data.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on February 07, 2017, 11:02:47 pm
Trump complains about the media not talking about terrorist attacks...

Meanwhile, no mention from the WH about the terrorist attack at a mosque in Quebec. 

Guess Trump doesn't want to gloat and take credit for inspiring the attack?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on February 07, 2017, 11:40:43 pm
So because obama is black he gets a pass on narcissm?  Nobody is saying trump is not narcissistic.  I agree trump is narcissistic, however so is obama which makes it poetic justice that he got replaced by someone like Donald trump even though Rubio/walker would have been better.

You can google obama is narcissistic and find multiple articles.  If there's smoke there's fire...

You make a claim and 'google it' is your argument?  How about you explain it to us.

Here's an example - Trump is a narcissist because...

He creates one monstrosity after another and immortalizes them with his name.  He has created his palace in the sky with everything gold plated and in the style of a dead gluttonous french King.  He believes the rules don't apply to him, and he doesn't have to release taxes or pay attention to other branches of government.  He is obsessed with his image and agonizes over what SNL says about him.  He has referred to himself in the third person. 

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on February 08, 2017, 12:27:20 am
Meanwhile, no mention from the WH about the terrorist attack at a mosque in Quebec. 

Guess Trump doesn't want to gloat and take credit for inspiring the attack?

Sorry BC_cheque but the above is proof that Trump is not a narcissist.  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 08, 2017, 09:35:29 am
The media have been covering up that murder is at a 47 year high in the United States!

Damn MSM! They can't be trusted!

This goes back to Newt Gingrich's "feelings vs facts" thing.  The irony is Trump claiming that the media is trying to cover up violent crime, when the primary reason that people feel less safe is heavy media coverage of violent crime.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnhJWusyj4I

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 08, 2017, 03:33:42 pm
If Donald Trump tweets in the woods, and no one listens, does it really matter?

Investors didn't have much of a reaction to the U.S. president's latest Twitter tirade on Wednesday, as shares in retailer Nordstrom, which Donald Trump accused of treating his daughter unfairly, barely budged.

"My daughter Ivanka has been treated so unfairly by @Nordstrom. She is a great person — always pushing me to do the right thing! Terrible," Trump said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nordstrom-trump-tweet-1.3972337
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on February 08, 2017, 03:39:25 pm
If Donald Trump tweets in the woods, and no one listens, does it really matter?

Investors didn't have much of a reaction to the U.S. president's latest Twitter tirade on Wednesday, as shares in retailer Nordstrom, which Donald Trump accused of treating his daughter unfairly, barely budged.

"My daughter Ivanka has been treated so unfairly by @Nordstrom. She is a great person — always pushing me to do the right thing! Terrible," Trump said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nordstrom-trump-tweet-1.3972337

Nordstrom is a  high end retailer. I would wager most of Trump's ardent followers have barely heard of the place, and certainly don't shop there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 08, 2017, 03:51:41 pm
A tweet like that would heave really unsettled the markets two weeks ago.  Today, no one really cares.  We've already come to that point.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on February 08, 2017, 05:19:37 pm
Nordstrom is a  high end retailer. I would wager most of Trump's ardent followers have barely heard of the place, and certainly don't shop there.

Nordstorm? Isn`t that the French Canadian company that makes a sou'wester?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 08, 2017, 05:23:31 pm
Today Donald Trump's pick for the SCOTUS spoke out against his attack on the 9th circuit judge that ruled against his ban:

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/318573-trump-scotus-pick-called-the-presidents-attack-on-judiciary
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 08, 2017, 05:26:17 pm
Trump bashes Nordstrom on Twitter, stock jumps 2%.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 09, 2017, 12:19:11 pm
Trump's surrogates continue to make up fake terrorist attacks to justify their twisted ideology.

http://www.newsy.com/stories/spicer-cites-attack-by-foreign-nationals-that-didn-t-happen/?utm_content=inf_11_3490_2&utm_source=whm_fb&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=influencers&tse_id=INF_0c866b80eeeb11e6a03c354c456e1db2
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 09, 2017, 01:19:31 pm
No longer good enough to just ignore attacks by white supremacists, now they are blaming them on someone else.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 09, 2017, 05:35:31 pm
You make a claim and 'google it' is your argument?  How about you explain it to us.

Here's an example - Trump is a narcissist because...

He creates one monstrosity after another and immortalizes them with his name.  He has created his palace in the sky with everything gold plated and in the style of a dead gluttonous french King.  He believes the rules don't apply to him, and he doesn't have to release taxes or pay attention to other branches of government.  He is obsessed with his image and agonizes over what SNL says about him.  He has referred to himself in the third person.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/12724/press-concerned-trump-insecure-narcissist-here-are-aaron-bandler

A case for narcissism
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on February 10, 2017, 03:51:53 pm
A link is no better than 'google it'.

Can't you form your own arguments?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 10, 2017, 03:59:15 pm
A link is no better than 'google it'.

Can't you form your own arguments?

I was saying that a google search showed multiple hits of how obama can be a narcissist, then I showed a link with a page with points showing how they think obama is a narcissist.  Like I said if there's smoke there's fire. I also said trump is a narcissist as well.  With a number of articles articulating why obama is a narcissist I can reasonably suggest that obama is in fact a narcissist as is trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on February 10, 2017, 08:32:02 pm
Now Putin is offering up Snowden to distract from the fact that Flynn is as traitorous as Trump: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/official-flynn-sanctions-talk-russia-45400179

And : https://www.engadget.com/2017/02/10/nbc-russia-considers-sending-snowden-back-to-us/

But, um, yeah, keep discussing who the bigger narcissist is....  ;D  ::)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 10, 2017, 10:34:05 pm
Now Putin is offering up Snowden to distract from the fact that Flynn is as traitorous as Trump: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/official-flynn-sanctions-talk-russia-45400179

And : https://www.engadget.com/2017/02/10/nbc-russia-considers-sending-snowden-back-to-us/

But, um, yeah, keep discussing who the bigger narcissist is....  ;D  ::)

The more the left keeps crying wolf, the less voters take them seriously...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on February 11, 2017, 12:32:04 am
 A majority of Americans are smart (smrt!) enough to know that the world is laughing at them:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/203834/americans-world-standing-worst-decade.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_content=morelink&utm_campaign=syndication

29% of Americans think world leaders respect Trump. ( Hint: no, world leaders think he is a jack ass).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on February 11, 2017, 01:18:17 am
Tonight Imwas reminded that Trump would like to put an American company (Nordstrom) out of business because they won't peddle his daughters clothes which are made in China. 

No wonder the world is laughing. Whatta Joke!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 11, 2017, 03:17:26 am
https://www.google.ca/amp/thehill.com/homenews/media/318514-trump-admin-seen-as-more-truthful-than-news-media-poll%3Famp?client=safari

😬  You know it's bad when trump is more trusted than the media...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 11, 2017, 03:20:32 am
A majority of Americans are smart (smrt!) enough to know that the world is laughing at them:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/203834/americans-world-standing-worst-decade.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_content=morelink&utm_campaign=syndication

29% of Americans think world leaders respect Trump. ( Hint: no, world leaders think he is a jack ass).

Yet Shinzo Abe has been to the USA twice to cement relations with trump.  Doesn't seem like Abe is wanting to get on his bad side.  America doesn't have to be liked, obama tried that and it was a disaster.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 11, 2017, 05:02:24 am
Trump thinks he knows more about everything than everybody and keeps presenting flat-out false information to support his claims of greatness.  But, Obama said "I" a lot in his speeches. So, they're both narcissists... one's the same as the other.

This is a textbook example of false equivalency.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on February 11, 2017, 08:52:17 am
Yet Shinzo Abe has been to the USA twice to cement relations with trump.  Doesn't seem like Abe is wanting to get on his bad side.  America doesn't have to be liked, obama tried that and it was a disaster.

It is not about being liked. It is about being respected. One can be loved and respected or feared and respected.

Trump is mocked and not respected because he is a joke.

Lets hope that he doesn't turn people's views of the US into assuming: joke Prez, joke country.

Because when that happens is when you will see wars and other significant challenges to American hegemony and I would prefer that to not happen in my lifetime.

At least Trump was wise enough to come back to the "one China" policy after his earlier gaffe with Taiwan.

Xi put him in his place, probably gently like Sun Tzu would have taught him to.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on February 11, 2017, 08:55:04 am
Trump thinks he knows more about everything than everybody...
 -k

This is known as the Dunning-Kruger effect: The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which low-ability individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability as much higher than it really is.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 11, 2017, 09:18:07 am
The more the left keeps crying wolf, the less voters take them seriously...
You just said that where there's smoke there's fire. How about where there is a corroborated dossier?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on February 11, 2017, 09:21:42 am
Think this sums up Trump so far:

 
https://mobile.twitter.com/IvanTheK/status/830406704923869184/photo/1


Except one could exchange Trump's quote with so many others: Grab women by the ****....


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 11, 2017, 10:44:16 am
This is known as the Dunning-Kruger effect: The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which low-ability individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability as much higher than it really is.
This effect has a lot more to it than that. You don't have to be low ability in general, it just means not having the necessary skills for a particular task or position. The added problem with DKE is that these individuals don't seek out new knowledge or ways to improve because they think to themselves, "I've got this" when really they don't. Confirmation bias then comes into play; they'll only look at things that confirm their ability and dismiss anything that suggests they're struggling or incapable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 11, 2017, 12:53:01 pm
You just said that where there's smoke there's fire. How about where there is a corroborated dossier?

There's a difference between smoke and crying wolf all the time.  The media has a 39% believability vs 49% for trump. 

Are people talking about the dossier now?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 11, 2017, 12:56:44 pm
There's a difference between smoke and crying wolf all the time.  The media has a 39% believability vs 49% for trump. 

Are people talking about the dossier now?
That says more about the survey respondents themselves than the media.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on February 11, 2017, 05:29:51 pm
I have stated on another forum that if Trump was elected then I would enjoy certain things about his election.

The SNL comedy, for example.

Watching people freak out as they discover "Obama care" is really ACA is another.  And, no, I don't feel bad for people losing healthcare to the extent that if they voted for Trump then too bad, so very very sad.

Abortion rights and planned parenthood - same thing. I support a woman's right to choose (up to 9 months for all I care) but, again, if you're a woman who couldn't understand that Trump and Clinton were not morally equivalent then too bad, so sad.

Here we see rural areas that may get screwed over from Trump: http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/10/news/economy/visa-ban-rural-doctor-shortage/index.html

Again, too bad, so sad, go forth and multipy with yourself.

Don't like it? Then vote next time or vote for a better candidate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on February 11, 2017, 07:42:28 pm
Trying to add a picture, did not go as expected

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on February 13, 2017, 09:55:45 pm
I will add to my list of "too bad, so sad, go forth and multiply with yourself" this:

Allegedly some guy in Texas building a $1.5 million boathouse has hit a dely because some of his workers have been deported.

Awww, poor guy.

When I was in Cambodia in December, our tour leader mentioned how Thailand kicked out tens of thousands of Cambodians.

A year later they were all back and thankfully so: the Thai economy required their cheap labour.

Trump's America will figure this out too. But how long?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 13, 2017, 10:19:39 pm
I will add to my list of "too bad, so sad, go forth and multiply with yourself" this:

Allegedly some guy in Texas building a $1.5 million boathouse has hit a dely because some of his workers have been deported.

Awww, poor guy.

When I was in Cambodia in December, our tour leader mentioned how Thailand kicked out tens of thousands of Cambodians.

A year later they were all back and thankfully so: the Thai economy required their cheap labour.

Trump's America will figure this out too. But how long?

When the prices for stuff rise.

It's a delicate balancing act as we have now seen what happens when an economy indebts itself so much that it is needing to put caps on foreigners and foreign made goods as a matter of national security as being indebted like they have been has been troublesome.  They are literally trying any solution to get their economy churning again. Protectionism is their latest experiment.

It's a curious experiment to balance the national security of making products while balancing investing in other countries to expand markets and get a return on capital.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 13, 2017, 10:22:44 pm
Russian spy Michael Flynn has resigned.  Maybe some sanity is taking over?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on February 13, 2017, 10:23:00 pm
Putin has accepted Flynn's resignation....

Man, what a gong show.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 13, 2017, 10:25:50 pm
Americans didn't care about Trudeau.  Probably best for them not to as they have to compare competence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 14, 2017, 02:16:39 am
Americans didn't care about Trudeau.  Probably best for them not to as they have to compare competence.

As foolish as Trudeau is, he knew enough to not poke the bear and will just let trump do his thing and worry about Canada which will net him another election win.

The media can actually take a lesson from Trudeau as much as that pains me to say.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on February 14, 2017, 11:09:13 pm
Tonight I wonder two things:

1) Why did the FBI not warn about this Russian crap like they did with "the letter?"

2) Does Putin have buyers remorse?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 15, 2017, 06:40:17 am
1) Why did the FBI not warn about this Russian crap like they did with "the letter?"
Probably because Comey is in their pockets too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 15, 2017, 09:52:16 am
Something I read regarding Comey's handling of the Weiner situation (lol!) is that Rudy Giuliani gave Comey an ultimatum that either Comey goes public with it, or Rudy's friends in the New York office of the FBI would leak it.  That information was getting out there... Rudy gave Comey the choice of how. I think that was sourced from "anonymous sources", so take it with a grain of salt, obviously.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 16, 2017, 05:15:30 am
Here's a recap of Trump's first month courtesy of a Reddit user.

* Declared the “court system” a threat to national security.

* Insisted that his Supreme Court pick had no problem with attacks on the judiciary, in the face of blatant evidence to the contrary.

* Trashed New START during a call with Putin — after putting the phone aside to ask his advisers what that (nuclear-arms treaty) was.

* Publicly condemned a private company for dropping his daughter’s (increasingly unpopular) fashion line.

* Suggested that publicly criticizing his military decisions is tantamount to aiding “the enemy.”

* Got angry at his press secretary for being impersonated by a woman.

* Used the executive branch’s immense authority over border control to inflict arbitrary cruelty on thousands of Muslim immigrants, create chaos at airports all across America, and sour diplomatic relations with the rest of the world.

* Violated court orders against his travel ban.

* Created a diplomatic crisis with Australia — and threatened to invade Mexico.

* Allowed his press secretary to falsely claim that Iran had committed an act of war against the United States.

* Retained the author of a reactionary screed that likened the 2016 election to Flight 93 as a national-security staffer.

* Suggested that Frederick Douglass is still alive in speech on Black History Month.

* Told a demonstrable lie about the size of the crowd at his inauguration — and predicted that the media would “pay a big price” for refusing to repeat it.

* Told congressional leaders at a private meeting that he only lost the popular vote because undocumented immigrants cast millions of ballots against him.

* Suggested America might once again have the opportunity to confiscate Iraq’s oil.

* Allowed his company to leverage the cachet of his election into a massive expansion of its hotel empire.

* Ordered the Department of Homeland Security to issue a weekly list of crimes (allegedly) committed by undocumented immigrants in sanctuary cities.

* Prepared to radically reduce American funding to the United Nations.

* Signed a bevy of executive orders that were drafted by the White House’s Breitbart wing — and no one else.

* Declared that his election had restored American democracy, in an angry, authoritarian inaugural address.

* Replaced the White House website’s page on climate change with a vow to drill for oil on federal lands.

* Defamed a hero of the civil-rights movement in a series of racist tweets.

* llowed his secretary of State nominee to pledge that America would block China’s access to its disputed islands in the South China Sea — a promise that, if kept, would almost certainly mean war.

* Named his son-in-law a senior White House adviser, in defiance of norms (and, very likely, laws) against nepotism.

* Called NATO obsolete.

* Repeatedly denigrated America’s intelligence agencies, then leaked plans to downsize them.

* Declared his openness to reviving a nuclear arms race.

* Disparaged the sitting American president, while praising a hostile foreign autocrat.

* Continued to use Twitter as a tool for souring diplomatic relations with the world’s second-greatest power.

* Named a billionaire investor — with an enormous, personal financial interest in deregulating certain sectors of the economy — as his special adviser on regulatory reform.

* Declared the American intelligence community to be inherently untrustworthy, after it produced information that he did not like.

* Said he would continue skipping daily intelligence briefings when he becomes president because he’s smart enough to get by without them.

* Said he doesn’t know why he should be bound by the One China Policy.

* Invited his adult sons — who are slated to run the Trump Organization next year — to a policy meeting with the leading lights of Silicon Valley.

* Picked a man who once tried to call for the abolition of the Energy Department — but couldn’t remember the department’s name — as secretary of Energy.

* Named his bankruptcy lawyer — who thinks liberal Jews are “worse” than Nazi collaborators — as his pick for ambassador to Israel.

* Provoked heightened diplomatic tensions with two nuclear-armed states.

* Handed the Environmental Protection Agency to a climate denialist.

* Handed the Labor Department to a serial violator of labor law. Although he quit like a loser today.

* Requested security clearance for a conspiracy theorist who claims that the Clintons operate a Satanic child-sex ring out of a popular D.C. pizzeria.

* Questioned the legitimacy of the election he just won.

* Appointed Ben Carson secretary of Housing and Urban Development — despite the fact that Carson has no relevant experience and recently declared himself unqualified for any cabinet position.

* Allowed his D.C. hotel to actively court the patronage of foreign diplomats.

* Invited the manager of his blind trust onto a phone call with the president of Argentina.

* Met with Indian business partners who have publicly declared their intention to capitalize on his status as president-elect.

* Tried to coerce Britain into appointing a right-wing extremist as its ambassador to the United States.

* Berated the media at a closed-door meeting for publishing unflattering photos of his double chin.

* Admitted that his charity was guilty of self-dealing.

* Derided protestors as paid professionals whose acts of free speech are fundamentally “unfair.”

* Invited the manager of his “blind trust” to a meeting with the prime minister of Japan.

* Assembled a team of racists to lead his White House.

* Took credit for the fact that Ford will not be relocating a plant to Mexico (which they never had any intention of relocating to Mexico).

* Declared America’s leading newspaper a “failing” institution.

* Took calls from foreign leaders on unsecured phone lines, without consulting the State Department.

* Referred to his White House transition as though it were the next season of The Apprentice.

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/5ubnzs/admit_it_trump_is_unfit_to_serve/ddt81h7
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 16, 2017, 05:20:35 am
And let's not forget the raid in Yemen

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/5ubnzs/admit_it_trump_is_unfit_to_serve/ddt43oi

It's noteworthy that, while making the case that Trump is unfit to serve, they didn't even mention Trump's fiasco in Yemen.  Let's go over that one again.

The Obama administration had been contemplating a raid in Yemen.  To gather intel?  To capture or kill an ISIS leader?  Who knows.  They never committed to executing the raid because they determined it was too dangerous.

Trump becomes the (p)Resident and some knucklehead in his administration convinces him to go for it.  Aaaaaaaaaaaand it proved to be too dangerous.

* A U.S. Navy Seal was killed during the raid.

* 23 civilians were killed, including women and children.

* U.S. servicemen were injured during the raid.

* A 75 Million Dollar U.S. aircraft was destroyed.  In fact, it had to be destroyed by the U.S. military, meaning, we paid for the missile used to destroy our own $75 million aircraft.  *Awesome!?*  ...oh, hell no.

Shortly after the raid, a press conference was scheduled to show off a key piece of intel gathered during the raid.  A video.  It was quickly debunked as being at least 10 years old and already available on the goddamn mother **** internet.

For me, the most amazing aspect of the raid in Yemen is that Trump didn't even go to the situation room to be briefed before approving the raid.  What was Trumple Thinskin so busy doing that he couldn't be thoroughly briefed in order to make the best possible decision?

**...He was eating.**

And here's a question nobody seems to have asked about the Yemen raid: Who actually WAS in the Situation Room for the Yemen raid?  Was it Skeletor himself, Steve Bannon?

There's a lot of talk about Trump being a Russian Puppet, but there's more than one hand up that clown's ass making his fish faced mouth move.  Trump is just as much Bannon's puppet, and lives have already been lost because of it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on February 16, 2017, 08:21:13 am
It has surprised me that the raid in Yemen has had so little coverage, especially given that a US soldier was killed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 16, 2017, 08:42:09 am
Meanwhile, Benghazi.....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on February 16, 2017, 09:17:18 pm
2017 - "I have nothing to do with Russia"
1998 - "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"
1972 - "I am not a crook"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 16, 2017, 10:39:07 pm
I thought he'd do fine.  I'm now convinced he won't make it through his first term.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 17, 2017, 05:30:40 am
Just some comments from Trump supporters to give you an idea of what some people think:

"We Trumpsters know-President Trump is the best thing since Abe Lincoln!🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸"

"Yes indeed he is "crazy like a fox" & cannot be contained by the usual methods.
Remember when the media and the GOP laughed and said he's a joke? People underestimate this man - our President all the time and he uses it to his advantage. Who's laughing now? God bless President Trump! 👍🇺🇸"

"I fully agree , the man is a genius!! Sit back and watch him in action , The media won't control or define him , FANTASTIC! I knew what I was doing when I placed my ballot 👏👏👏❣💥"

"I agree with you how sick America is right now, [NAME], for the exact opposite reason you would think. The far left liberals have not only destroyed our freedoms, society, and culture, they are trying to destroy any chance we may have to make things so much better for all people. Too many people have been told on what to think, and not how to have a mind and ideas of their own. It is frowned upon to be an individual and have your own thoughts and ideas. The far left is trying to destroy our country, because they are not into individual freedoms. They are into a herd mentality."

All of these are in response to this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFcbQFHLptQ

They actually think Trump is playing 4D chess.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 17, 2017, 08:52:55 am
I thought he'd do fine.  I'm now convinced he won't make it through his first term.
What made you think he'd do fine? Your crazymeter sometimes doesn't work?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 17, 2017, 09:04:34 am
What's with Trump and Deutsche Bank? Why do they keep lending him and the other Trumps money after he refused to repay a 300M loan?

No wonder he doesn't want to release his tax returns.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/feb/16/how-donald-trump-became-deutsche-bank-biggest-headache
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 17, 2017, 09:38:07 am
I find it pretty interesting that one of the comments up above I posted said:

"It is frowned upon to be an individual and have your own thoughts and ideas. The far left is trying to destroy our country, because they are not into individual freedoms. They are into a herd mentality."

I find myself becoming less judgmental of religious identities as I study them, so i want to address this point and why it's so strange; however, in order to do so I need to lead up to it. First I will need to describe some of the history of Protestantism in the United States.

Protestantism in the US had two ideological strands throughout most of the 20th century: mainline and evangelical. Mainline Protestant churches were more liberal; they believed the believe in the social welfare message of Christ and sought to go out and aid others, as Jesus preached to do in the sermon on the mount. Evangelical Protestant churches were the conservative strand of Protestantism, which offered a strict guidelines for a healthy and moral life. They strictly controlled their congregations lifestyles and sought to have others join them, so that they too may be saved. As opposed to going out, allowing others to be what they are and simply providing assistance and care, evangelism sought to spread the word of God under the notion that people who accept him will join their fold.

The key difference between these two strands of Protestantism is that one values individualism and looks to synthesize its teachings and beliefs with an increasingly pluralistic society, whilst the other looked out for themselves. Conservative religions held traditionalist values. Politically, they are intent on creating an evangelical Protestant America. Traditionalism values subdues the individual in favour of the group. In fact, straying from the program is very much considered a threat, not to just the religion but society as a whole. You see, the prescribed life of conservative religion is a response to the fractured identities we suffer from the radical individualism associated with modernity. Modernity might be seen as nihilistic in the sense that if we can be anything, then we are nothing. The modern condition is one of having no place, role, or position in society or time. Anything goes.

Evangelical conservative Christianity is a response to this modern condition. Throughout the 60s and 70s as society became more liberal, attendance in the Mainline Protestant churches (read: liberal Protestant churches) rapidly declined. People could be spiritual or faithful without church. Religious identities were becoming fragmented just as our social identities were. People began observing religions like they were in a cafeteria picking and choosing their dishes, keeping and discarding the parts that had the most meaning for them. Attending weekly services is one of the things that suffered, even though many continued to have a personal devotion. Paradoxically, while all of this was happening, conservative evangelical churches were holding onto their membership. These "stricter" churches that prescribed guidelines for their members lifestyles and enforced them may seem anachronistic but they serve a very important purpose. They give people a sense of purpose and identity. They prescribe for them a role in society that allows them to understand their place in space and time. Individualism led to the rise of many mental health issues, such as depression and anxiety, precisely because it has become harder to find your place and role in this world. So many turned to or stayed with evangelical or more traditionalist religions as a way of finding meaning, purpose, and simply a place in an increasingly fragmented society.

What this commenter above characterized as an assault on society by liberals is not correct. "Liberalism" is the idea of individual freedoms and liberties, so it makes absolutely no sense to characterize liberal ideology as the subjugation of the individual. Liberal ideology is literally the exact opposite. It is conservative ideology that wants everyone to join their fold because they think the path to social well-being is a prescriptive program of faith that provides lifestyle guidelines to give everyone a place and sense of purpose in society. If it seems that Evangelical Christians are trying to take over the government and make everyone follow their beliefs, it is because that is exactly what they are doing and they strongly believe it is not just the right thing to do, but it is the moral thing to do. This doesn't just go for Christians, this is any traditionalist religion. The welfare of society and people's entire sense of purpose are bound up in the prescription of a conservative religious life that strictly values the group over the individual. Any deviation from the group is such a problem that there have been times where the group calls for the death of the person who doesn't subjugate their individuality before their faith. This is what happened to Salman Rushdie after publishing The Satanic Verses. This is what happened when conservative Christians justify the murder of abortion doctors.

So to put it simply, it is not liberals who are denying individual liberties and freedoms. It is very much a Christian conservative ideology that looks to subjugate the individual in favour of the group, one very specific group that all are invited to join and those who don't are seen as a threat to the group's very existence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 17, 2017, 09:56:10 am
Oh and another thing, Western society set out on the liberal project back during the Enlightenment when it was no longer acceptable to cite tradition, but rather we embarked on a journey where reason was the path to truth. The Reformation was just a milestone on that journey, where individuals could now interpret the Bible and the word of God. However, this project reaches into all aspect of people's lives. Conservative ideology is one that seeks to "conserve" the old traditions, deny reason, and thereby deny individuality and individual liberty. Conservatism is about tradition and society as the body organic, where everyone has a role and a function as part of the group. Those who do not want to fulfill their role are to be exiled or are otherwise a threat to society.

Long story short, people on Facebook haven't got a **** clue what they're talking about.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 17, 2017, 10:11:17 am
What made you think he'd do fine? Your crazymeter sometimes doesn't work?

I thought he'd have smart people around him to make up for his nonsense.  I was wrong.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 17, 2017, 03:44:50 pm
Just some comments from Trump supporters to give you an idea of what some people think:

"We Trumpsters know-President Trump is the best thing since Abe Lincoln!🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸"

"Yes indeed he is "crazy like a fox" & cannot be contained by the usual methods.
Remember when the media and the GOP laughed and said he's a joke? People underestimate this man - our President all the time and he uses it to his advantage. Who's laughing now? God bless President Trump! 👍🇺🇸"

"I fully agree , the man is a genius!! Sit back and watch him in action , The media won't control or define him , FANTASTIC! I knew what I was doing when I placed my ballot 👏👏👏❣💥"

"I agree with you how sick America is right now, [NAME], for the exact opposite reason you would think. The far left liberals have not only destroyed our freedoms, society, and culture, they are trying to destroy any chance we may have to make things so much better for all people. Too many people have been told on what to think, and not how to have a mind and ideas of their own. It is frowned upon to be an individual and have your own thoughts and ideas. The far left is trying to destroy our country, because they are not into individual freedoms. They are into a herd mentality."

All of these are in response to this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFcbQFHLptQ

They actually think Trump is playing 4D chess.

He did win an election, and his attack on the press is proving effective in the eyes of a large portion of Americans, they believe him more than the press...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 17, 2017, 03:53:54 pm
This says more about those people than it does the press. It tells me they're ignorant and impressionable combined with being opinionated. When people buy into Trump's bullying of the media, what are they left with? Only the government message with zero accountability to the public. These ignorant fools would be beside themselves with rage if a democrat treated the media like this. A free press is the keystone of democracy. Without it you're left with nothing but government propaganda.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on February 17, 2017, 04:35:08 pm
Yes, but they're victims!  Victims of a vast left-wing media!  Of affirmative action and immigrants stealing their jobs.  Now Heil Trump is finally going to have their backs.

Funny how these knuckle draggers love throwing around phrases like snowflake, triggered... yet they're the biggest bunch of whiny victims I ever saw.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on February 18, 2017, 11:22:45 am
I thought he'd have smart people around him to make up for his nonsense.  I was wrong.

It is hard to guess which way things like this go.

In Canada we continue to see conservatives underestimate Trudeau's intelligence, charm, and judgement.

He has, generally, surrounded himself with people who are doing a good job.

Trump, in light of this Flynn incident, is demonstrating just how little respect he is getting: Harward has declined the NSC job on the basis of Trump's meltdown news conference from the other day.

Now, that is a loss. He probably would have been a good fit for the job but now a lesser candidate who is willing to work with a lunatic boss will get the job instead.

It's a self-reinforcing downward spiral into an incompetent abyss.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 18, 2017, 01:44:41 pm
This says more about those people than it does the press. It tells me they're ignorant and impressionable combined with being opinionated. When people buy into Trump's bullying of the media, what are they left with? Only the government message with zero accountability to the public. These ignorant fools would be beside themselves with rage if a democrat treated the media like this. A free press is the keystone of democracy. Without it you're left with nothing but government propaganda.

Trump is as free to make his crude remarks about the press as the press is just as free to make their jabs at trump.  They are quite allowed to bully each other and let the public decide who they believe based on both sides arguements.  Unless trump explicitly starts passing laws hindering the press and their ability to cover the news and express an opinion; the press is just being sore losers.

The press is just as capable of spreading propaganda as politicians and what keeps everyone accountable is multitude of avenues of getting information, determining if the reports corroborate, and not paying attention to the source of information one doesn't agree with.

its far easier to hold the president and his party accountable at election time than it is to hold the editor of a media outlet.

Don't worry obama slammed Fox News on the regular.  The press is having a hard time understanding that freedom is a two way street and that they are allowed to be criticized.  Donald trump criticizing the media is not oppressing them.  Unless trump passes a law hindering there rights, they can't complain if he doesn't take their questions or calls them out.

Unless you show a law where the press is having their rights trampled, they still have their rights in tact
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on February 18, 2017, 02:19:34 pm
the press is just being sore losers.

It is funny you would say that, and not acknowledge that Trump is also being a sore loser because he doesn't have the press eating out of his hands.

I agree he is free to say what he wants, but so is the press and the fact is they are far more accountable than he has ever been. The press do hold themselves, and each other to account. Trump has been given a free ride, and by deluging the airwaves with continual alternative facts he is trying to bury his worst ones among the others. The press should hold him to account.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 18, 2017, 02:45:16 pm
It is funny you would say that, and not acknowledge that Trump is also being a sore loser because he doesn't have the press eating out of his hands.

I agree he is free to say what he wants, but so is the press and the fact is they are far more accountable than he has ever been. The press do hold themselves, and each other to account. Trump has been given a free ride, and by deluging the airwaves with continual alternative facts he is trying to bury his worst ones among the others. The press should hold him to account.

Trump has not been given a free ride and at the same time he hasn't given the press a free ride either.  The difference with trump and the press is that trump is making no small bones that he's upset at the press and giving it back to them.  Please explain how the press is far more accountable than trump.  Voters can end trumps presidency, but they can't silent some guy writing a blog in his parents basement.

What trump is doing with his "alternative facts" is essentially trolling the media.  By then howling about everything and saying that everything he does is the worst scandal than watergate is really cutting into their credibility.

As for trump going at it with the media, he has to.  All he has to look at is how the media has reported on bush jr., McCain, and Romney.  None of those people pushed back and it hurt the republicans with voters.  Every editor is a human and they have their preferences and a lot of the news is reporting facts and they express their opinions, tone, and delivery based on their preferences which is fine as it's human nature.  Trump is just calling them on it. 

The media is used to having republicans twist in pretzels to try and get their message out whereas trump is now driving the media nuts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on February 18, 2017, 03:23:02 pm
Trump has not been given a free ride and at the same time he hasn't given the press a free ride either.  The difference with trump and the press is that trump is making no small bones that he's upset at the press and giving it back to them.  Please explain how the press is far more accountable than trump.  Voters can end trumps presidency, but they can't silent some guy writing a blog in his parents basement.

Trump was a no-name reality show hollywood type that was given months and months of free coverage. Trump has to be accountable once in 4 years, the press has to be accountable nightly. This is not about some guy in his basement with a readership of 3 and a mommy to support him, this is about the main stream press that must make payroll every two weeks and if they are not accountable then their financial supporters (advertisers) will walk away.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 18, 2017, 04:18:31 pm
Trump is as free to make his crude remarks about the press as the press is just as free to make their jabs at trump.

Unless you show a law where the press is having their rights trampled, they still have their rights in tact
No one suggested that Trump isn't allowed to be an idiot and nobody said the press was having their rights trampled. I certainly never said that, so I don't know why you're even quoting me at all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 18, 2017, 04:44:55 pm
Yes, but they're victims!  Victims of a vast left-wing media!  Of affirmative action and immigrants stealing their jobs.  Now Heil Trump is finally going to have their backs.

Funny how these knuckle draggers love throwing around phrases like snowflake, triggered... yet they're the biggest bunch of whiny victims I ever saw.

Trumplethinskin is snowflake in chief.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 18, 2017, 09:00:36 pm
I get a kick out of this "Winter White House" thing. Must drive the ranks of the CIA and Secret Service nuts. Sitting around chatting with unauthorized people, no knowledge whether the place could be bugged, talking about North Korea and other important security issues. Wow!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 18, 2017, 10:41:20 pm
Trump was a no-name reality show hollywood type that was given months and months of free coverage. Trump has to be accountable once in 4 years, the press has to be accountable nightly. This is not about some guy in his basement with a readership of 3 and a mommy to support him, this is about the main stream press that must make payroll every two weeks and if they are not accountable then their financial supporters (advertisers) will walk away.

Trump's party is accountable every two years and he knows if he rocks the boot too much it's he bye House and senate. 

The mainstream should probably find a new strategy of reporting the news as their ratings are dropping and more people believe trump than the press.  I don't think their shareholders would like that.

Trump has trolled the press for over 30 yrs and they keep taking the bait.

The press should wait until a real quantifiable scandal comes about, unfortunately since they keep crying wolf, he may be able to squeeze one through which would not be good for anybody.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 18, 2017, 11:30:34 pm
The mainstream should probably find a new strategy of reporting the news as their ratings are dropping and more people believe trump than the press.  I don't think their shareholders would like that.

Saturday Night Live is doing their best ratings in decades thanks to Trump. I'm sure the news media are taking note.

The Obama presidency was extremely beneficial to Fox News, and I fully expect the Trump presidency will be the same for CNN.  People don't want to watch news media shill for the president. They know that when Trump takes a ****, Fox News and Breitpravda are going to call it ice-cream. That's not what people watch the news for.  The press is a check on the power of government. They know that Fox and Breitpravda aren't going to provide that check.  CNN, the New York Times, and the Washington Post are doing gold star work.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 18, 2017, 11:44:01 pm
I get a kick out of this "Winter White House" thing. Must drive the ranks of the CIA and Secret Service nuts. Sitting around chatting with unauthorized people, no knowledge whether the place could be bugged, talking about North Korea and other important security issues. Wow!

It's hilarious... Trump and many conservatives criticized Obama for going golfing too often. Trump goes golfing at his private club every weekend. Conservative reaction: *crickets*

Many conservatives criticized Obama for spending too much taxpayer money on his vacations. Obama's travel cost the US taxpayer on average $12 million per year-- just under $100 million during his 8 years as president.  Trump's trips to Mar-a-Lago have cost the US taxpayer $11 million over the past 3 WEEKS.  Conservative reaction: *crickets*

It's costing approximately $300,000 per DAY that Melania Trump and Barron Trump live in Trump Tower.  The security cost of having separate residences for Mr Trump and Mrs Trump will come to over $30 million by the time Barron's school year is up.  Conservative reaction: *crickets*

Republicans were all over this stuff when Obama was in charge. Now? They have nothing to say.  Hypocrites.  SAD! LOW ENERGY!  PATHETIC!

Also, what's with calling his golf club the "Winter White House"?  Does he think he's Tsar Nicholas or something?

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 19, 2017, 12:15:04 am
It's hilarious... Trump and many conservatives criticized Obama for going golfing too often. Trump goes golfing at his private club every weekend. Conservative reaction: *crickets*

Many conservatives criticized Obama for spending too much taxpayer money on his vacations. Obama's travel cost the US taxpayer on average $12 million per year-- just under $100 million during his 8 years as president.  Trump's trips to Mar-a-Lago have cost the US taxpayer $11 million over the past 3 WEEKS.  Conservative reaction: *crickets*

It's costing approximately $300,000 per DAY that Melania Trump and Barron Trump live in Trump Tower.  The security cost of having separate residences for Mr Trump and Mrs Trump will come to over $30 million by the time Barron's school year is up.  Conservative reaction: *crickets*

Republicans were all over this stuff when Obama was in charge. Now? They have nothing to say.  Hypocrites.  SAD! LOW ENERGY!  PATHETIC!

Also, what's with calling his golf club the "Winter White House"?  Does he think he's Tsar Nicholas or something?

 -k

It was actually deemed "the winter white house" by the heiress to the post cereal fortune who donated it to the government to fulfill what the title referred to. However it was given back to her and then put up for sale. Trump's first low bid offer was turned down but was later accepted because he was able to slither into the beach property in front of the place and threatened to put up condos to destroy the view. But his use of it will as you say cost a shitload on extra security. You'll probably see Putin at the table there before long.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 19, 2017, 12:24:48 am
Anyway on a humorous note, let me tell ya a really really old pilot joke that might just be applicable to the current US government situation. Pardon me if you already know it.

So the captain comes on the intercom and says "ladies and gentlemen I have good news and bad news. The good news is we are making really good time today. The bad news is, we are lost"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 19, 2017, 12:36:05 am
Saturday Night Live is doing their best ratings in decades thanks to Trump. I'm sure the news media are taking note.

The Obama presidency was extremely beneficial to Fox News, and I fully expect the Trump presidency will be the same for CNN.  People don't want to watch news media shill for the president. They know that when Trump takes a ****, Fox News and Breitpravda are going to call it ice-cream. That's not what people watch the news for.  The press is a check on the power of government. They know that Fox and Breitpravda aren't going to provide that check.  CNN, the New York Times, and the Washington Post are doing gold star work.

 -k

I remember in 08 CNN wanted to brand themselves as no bias nO bull and that somehow disappeared.  I wouldn't say cnn's ratings will benefit as will msnbc's but only by so much as the mainstream media as a whole is dying a slow death due to multiple online sources like vox, daily wire, etc.

Fox News is still doing good shilling for trump.  The press is a check on government but they keep crying wolf which is making them look biased and feeding trumps narrative.

I'm wondering what the ratings would have been if McCain won due to Tina fay doing a good palin like Alec Baldwin does trump (which is hilarious)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 19, 2017, 12:51:44 am
I remember in 08 CNN wanted to brand themselves as no bias nO bull and that somehow disappeared.  I wouldn't say cnn's ratings will benefit as will msnbc's but only by so much as the mainstream media as a whole is dying a slow death due to multiple online sources like vox, daily wire, etc.

Fox News is still doing good shilling for trump.  The press is a check on government but they keep crying wolf which is making them look biased and feeding trumps narrative.

I'm wondering what the ratings would have been if McCain won due to Tina fay doing a good palin like Alec Baldwin does trump (which is hilarious)

CNN is a news media, SNL is an entertainment/comedy media. They do tend to mesh and overlap, but you must keep them separate in your mind. Trump's foibles do tend to create a scenario where it sometimes is hard to keep them straight.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 19, 2017, 08:53:55 am
Trump's party is accountable every two years
You think Trump gives a **** about "his" party?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 19, 2017, 10:10:26 am
You think Trump gives a **** about "his" party?

He will have to if he doesn't want to repeat the obama experience.  As we have seen executive orders don't have much staying power.  Bill Clinton was wise to get along with congress.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 19, 2017, 02:18:11 pm
He will have to if he doesn't want to repeat the obama experience.  As we have seen executive orders don't have much staying power.  Bill Clinton was wise to get along with congress.

Executive orders must be legal and respective of the constitution if they are to have staying power. Do you think Trump wouldn't want to repeat Obama's success's.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 19, 2017, 02:43:41 pm
Executive orders must be legal and respective of the constitution if they are to have staying power. Do you think Trump wouldn't want to repeat Obama's success's.

Trump is repealing obamas executive orders.  Not very successful when the next president can rip them up.  There's a reason I'll Clinton got along with congress and why obama suggested to get things done through congress.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 19, 2017, 03:23:54 pm
I see Trump is now making up stories about terrorist attacks that didn't happen, apparently to bolster his immigration ban. The last terrorist attack in Sweden wasn't last Friday night, it was in 2010 when a local blew only himself up with his bomb. So for those who like to try and blame what they call "fake news" that hurts Trump, maybe he should stop making up actual fake news.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-sweden-terror-lie_us_58a8f397e4b045cd34c263d3
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 19, 2017, 03:53:05 pm
I see Trump is now making up stories about terrorist attacks that didn't happen, apparently to bolster his immigration ban. The last terrorist attack in Sweden wasn't last Friday night, it was in 2010 when a local blew only himself up with his bomb. So for those who like to try and blame what they call "fake news" that hurts Trump, maybe he should stop making up actual fake news.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-sweden-terror-lie_us_58a8f397e4b045cd34c263d3

I have a secret:

He's trolling his opponents.  Shhh!!!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 19, 2017, 04:05:44 pm
You are right, he is a Troll. America elected a Troll for President. Well done. The media needs to stop feeding him and get on with news.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 19, 2017, 04:15:40 pm
I have a secret:

He's trolling his opponents.  Shhh!!!

It's certainly no secret he just continues to make an ass of himself. It's pretty telling when he whinges incessantly about "fake news" and then tells an outright lie (one of many) in a televised campaign speech. even his supporters are probably smart enough to catch on to that. Shhhh!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 19, 2017, 04:34:47 pm
Trump is trolling the media and it is feeding him. They need to stop feeding him, ignore his shots and just stick with the facts. Dig up all the dirt they can but make sure they are factual. The opposite of Trump.

Or they can do what Ana Navarro, a Republican did when Trump's snowflake in law went whining to CNN brass about unfair treatment and her in particular. Make it short an brutal.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/320044-ana-navarro-hits-kushner-for-complaining-about-cnn-oh-baby-boy
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 19, 2017, 05:16:11 pm
I have a secret:

He's trolling his opponents.  Shhh!!!

that would require some kind of thought, or coherent plan.  There's no evidence of that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 19, 2017, 06:51:59 pm
that would require some kind of thought, or coherent plan.  There's no evidence of that.

He has done this for 30 yrs.  he knows how to manipulate the media and is doing same.  The problem is that they are using the same tactics that they used on Romney, McCain, and bush jr. however they don't work on trump. 

They need to stick to reporting facts good and bad and stop their obsession with him.  There will be a time when trump messes up and they need their credibility to make it stick.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on February 19, 2017, 07:10:41 pm
Trump's supporters are dedicated, that's for sure.

Quote
Trump appeared in Florida Saturday where 9,000 followers gathered to hear him speak, including one man who said he salutes and prays to a six-foot cardboard cut-out of Pres. Trump every day.



http://www.rawstory.com/2017/02/trump-admits-false-last-night-in-sweden-claim-was-something-he-heard-broadcast-on-fox-news/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 19, 2017, 07:46:28 pm



Trump's ego is like a tire with a slow leak, it needs to be pumped up regularly.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 19, 2017, 08:32:24 pm
He has done this for 30 yrs.  he knows how to manipulate the media and is doing same.  The problem is that they are using the same tactics that they used on Romney, McCain, and bush jr. however they don't work on trump. 

They need to stick to reporting facts good and bad and stop their obsession with him.  There will be a time when trump messes up and they need their credibility to make it stick.

Not sure what you mean by "they don't work on Trump". They are simply reporting on Trump. What is working on Trump is his continuous outpouring of lies and stupidity. He should try sticking to his teleprompter because when he goes off script he just digs that hole a little deeper.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 19, 2017, 09:20:16 pm
Trump is now trying to back peddle on his "fake news" statement about a terrorist attack in Sweden which didn't occur by saying he was referring to a Fox news story to do with immigrants. How can one man generate so much bullshit on a daily basis and expect anyone not to shake their heads? Of course he does have his supporters such as the likes of KellyAnne Conway who makes up her own stories about the "Bowling Green" massacre and then the Atlanta one of course. Where does it end I wonder?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 19, 2017, 09:23:38 pm
Not sure what you mean by "they don't work on Trump". They are simply reporting on Trump. What is working on Trump is his continuous outpouring of lies and stupidity. He should try sticking to his teleprompter because when he goes off script he just digs that hole a little deeper.

Except that the American people believe trump more than the media.  The only ones digging holes are the media.  Trump wants the media flailing about trying to dig crap on them so he can show his supporters the fix is in on him.  All the media needs to do is bide their time, but they refuse to.  Barring a recession, if the media keeps doing what they are doing, trump will win again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 19, 2017, 09:38:44 pm
Except that the American people believe trump more than the media.  The only ones digging holes are the media.  Trump wants the media flailing about trying to dig crap on them so he can show his supporters the fix is in on him.  All the media needs to do is bide their time, but they refuse to.  Barring a recession, if the media keeps doing what they are doing, trump will win again.

You now speak for the American people do you? I don't think so. The media simply reports the blunders and lies Trump tries to flog. And it seems Trump supplies all that on a more or less daily basis. Or do you think there was a terrorist attack in Sweden Friday night, because Trump said so? American's are waking up and I doubt Trump will make it beyond the mid terms, if the courts don't nail him first with regard to his constitutional failings.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 19, 2017, 09:48:38 pm
You now speak for the American people do you? I don't think so. The media simply reports the blunders and lies Trump tries to flog. And it seems Trump supplies all that on a more or less daily basis. Or do you think there was a terrorist attack in Sweden Friday night, because Trump said so? American's are waking up and I doubt Trump will make it beyond the mid terms, if the courts don't nail him first with regard to his constitutional failings.

Do you speak for the American people?

It's simple communication and gamesmanship.  You guys and the media took the bait hook line and sinker.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 19, 2017, 10:18:37 pm
Do you speak for the American people?

It's simple communication and gamesmanship.  You guys and the media took the bait hook line and sinker.

I'm sorry but if you buy Trump's garbage it's you who have the hook embedded. And do you actually believe there was a terrorist attack in Sweden Friday night? And would you prefer the press not report his, or Spicers, or Kellyannes, etc., etc., lise?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 19, 2017, 11:40:52 pm
I'm sorry but if you buy Trump's garbage it's you who have the hook embedded. And do you actually believe there was a terrorist attack in Sweden Friday night? And would you prefer the press not report his, or Spicers, or Kellyannes, etc., etc., lise?

I'm just an observer.  I don't believe half the stuff trump says, however I know that it puts the left into a tizzy which I find glorious. 

The thing is the only people who care about his Sweden remark is democrats and the press.  His supporters are not caring about his bombast and are looking at his results which are executive orders checking off campaign promises.  Keystone xl check, Dakota access check, offensive immigration ban check, process started on the wall check, confidence in stock markets check, working with companies to invest in USA check.

His supporters are seeing things are getting done in spite of the left freaking out over a Sweden comment.  You guys are getting trolled and it's poetic justice.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 20, 2017, 08:22:24 am
I'm just an observer.  I don't believe half the stuff trump says, however I know that it puts the left into a tizzy which I find glorious.
That you don't find the lies, coverups, and propaganda a problem says a lot about you. It's not a flaw of "the left" that they find Trump's behaviour abhorrent.

By the way, "the left" also includes notable Republicans like John McCain and Lindsay Graham....but whatever, right?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 20, 2017, 09:13:05 am
I have a secret:

He's trolling his opponents.  Shhh!!!

This isn't "trolling", this is propaganda. Pure and simple. They're making up lies to support this agenda of security and anti-Muslim prejudice. "The Bowling Green massacre!"  "The highest murder rate in 47 years!" "The incident in Sweden yesterday!"

This isn't "trolling", this is deliberate deceit.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 20, 2017, 09:25:49 am
I think what is important is the media doesn't let Trump make it about them, meaning stop complaining about being called fake news because they won't get a lot of sympathy.  Ignore it and just keep doing their job of reporting the real verifiable facts and calling Trump on his BS. This can't keep up forever, eventually he will be buried under his own pile of dung.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on February 20, 2017, 09:48:35 am
His supporters are seeing things are getting done in spite of the left freaking out over a Sweden comment.

If his supporters looked for real results, they would be sadly disappointed. Being told he is getting things done from the liar in chief is not evidence of any accomplishment, it is only evidence of the gullibility of his supporters - and that is not news.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 20, 2017, 09:50:12 am
This isn't "trolling", this is propaganda. Pure and simple. They're making up lies to support this agenda of security and anti-Muslim prejudice. "The Bowling Green massacre!"  "The highest murder rate in 47 years!" "The incident in Sweden yesterday!"

This isn't "trolling", this is deliberate deceit.

 -k

Which is why over 50% don't believe what trump says.  He's still trolling by trying to get a reaction out of the press to show his supporters the media bias.

This isn't the first time he's trolled the press with nonsense.  This is the guy who used to call the press in the 1980s with a fake name to make up stories about him to get his name out.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 20, 2017, 09:52:23 am
If his supporters looked for real results, they would be sadly disappointed. Being told he is getting things done from the liar in chief is not evidence of any accomplishment, it is only evidence of the gullibility of his supporters - and that is not news.

His supporters were looking for something quantifiable.  There's a reason there were those photo ops with him signing the executive orders which shows action being taken.  Typically stuff like that takes time to yield true results.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on February 20, 2017, 09:52:32 am
Except that the American people believe trump more than the media. 

incorrect. SOME Americans believe Trump more than the media. Most likely those with psychological issues, learning problems, no education and low IQs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on February 20, 2017, 09:56:25 am
This is the guy who used to call the press in the 1980s with a fake name to make up stories about him to get his name out.

Kind of reminds me of Dave from Scarborough. The similarities between the two buffoons are uncanny.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 20, 2017, 09:58:12 am
incorrect. SOME Americans believe Trump more than the media. Most likely those with psychological issues, learning problems, no education and low IQs.

https://www.google.ca/amp/thehill.com/homenews/administration/320205-fox-poll-voters-split-on-whether-to-trust-trump-or-media%3Famp?client=safari

And

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2017-02-09/trump-administration-more-trusted-than-the-media-poll-finds%3Fcontext%3Damp?client=safari

This tells me Americans are typically skeptical about things being told to them and think critically
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on February 20, 2017, 10:08:31 am

This tells me Americans are typically skeptical about things being told to them and think critically

Funny. What this tells me is a lot of Americans are incapable of thinking critically.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 20, 2017, 10:15:59 am
Funny. What this tells me is a lot of Americans are incapable of thinking critically.

Neither of them have over 50% believability.  If they didn't think critical, one would have sky high believeable ratings
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 20, 2017, 10:51:52 am
https://www.google.ca/amp/thehill.com/homenews/administration/320205-fox-poll-voters-split-on-whether-to-trust-trump-or-media%3Famp?client=safari

And

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2017-02-09/trump-administration-more-trusted-than-the-media-poll-finds%3Fcontext%3Damp?client=safari

This tells me Americans are typically skeptical about things being told to them and think critically

Believing Trump's nonsense and BS is critical thinking? Please.

The media"s problem is "I was told" or "I've heard" or "People say" doesn't cut it for mainstream media credibility, nor should it, but coming from Trump, his supporters lap it up as gospel.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 20, 2017, 11:21:10 am
Trump is the President now. What's the problem with demanding the same standard of truthfulness from a president and his administration, as from the media? That would be critical thinking.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on February 20, 2017, 11:58:26 am

This isn't "trolling", this is deliberate deceit.

Never ascribe conspiracy to what you can explain through ignorance. Trump saw a story on FOX news about huge crime rates among migrants to Sweden from the Middle East and North Africa. That simply reinforced in his head how horrible it is to get overrun by migrants from the Middle East and North Africa, and he blurted that out.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on February 20, 2017, 11:58:57 am
Trump is the President now. What's the problem with demanding the same standard of truthfulness from a president and his administration, as from the media? That would be critical thinking.

The people who put him in office clearly didn't care about his dishonesty, and they don't care about it now either.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 20, 2017, 11:59:52 am
Believing Trump's nonsense and BS is critical thinking? Please.

The media"s problem is "I was told" or "I've heard" or "People say" doesn't cut it for mainstream media credibility, nor should it, but coming from Trump, his supporters lap it up as gospel.
These are also convenient weasel words so he can claim that he wasn't lying....he was just misinformed. Except he's not misinformed. He continues to spread bullshit even after he's been corrected.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 20, 2017, 12:11:36 pm
His supporters were looking for something quantifiable.  There's a reason there were those photo ops with him signing the executive orders which shows action being taken.  Typically stuff like that takes time to yield true results.

Looks like he will get even more photo ops if he has to keep re writing his EO's to get them past the courts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 20, 2017, 12:29:40 pm
Trump is the President now. What's the problem with demanding the same standard of truthfulness from a president and his administration, as from the media? That would be critical thinking.

As would not believing any of them.  The media has a ratings problem and media these days has been discussed as "choose your own adventure" media
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 20, 2017, 12:49:13 pm
As would not believing any of them. 

No, that would be willful ignorance of everything, the opposite of critical thinking.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 20, 2017, 01:02:46 pm
As would not believing any of them.  The media has a ratings problem and media these days has been discussed as "choose your own adventure" media

Trump seems to be constantly outraged at snl for underscore his gaffes and outright lies and their ratings are sky high.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 20, 2017, 01:49:17 pm
Trump seems to be constantly outraged at snl for underscore his gaffes and outright lies and their ratings are sky high.

He is a godsend to every political satirist and late show host. They don't have to search for topics any more because he provides new material daily. When he is gone, writers will actually have to start working for a living again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 20, 2017, 02:51:46 pm
Trump is now saying he based his Sweden terror remarks on a TV report, so I guess  we can now conclude that the Donald is getting his international intel. reports via Fox news, rather than those danged leaky intelligence agencies like CIA, NSA etc. And now apparently a lot of Trump supporters are convinced the terror attack actually did happen but the media is covering it up. It seems the slippery slope to conspiracy theories gets slipperier by the day.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on February 20, 2017, 03:12:24 pm
the Donald is getting his international intel. reports via Fox news, rather than those danged leaky intelligence agencies

Maybe there is more in depth reporting at Fox news. You know those intelligence agencies only give him a few bullet points on page, along with a graph or two.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 22, 2017, 07:35:31 pm
Trump owes $600M to the Bank of China (Chinese government)....  makes you go "hmmmm...."


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 23, 2017, 09:50:07 am
Maybe there is more in depth reporting at Fox news. You know those intelligence agencies only give him a few bullet points on page, along with a graph or two.

Why waste all that time actually reading stuff when Trump knows that if anything serious happens, somebody will tell him. Ezra or Limbaugh or somebody. Don't worry.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 24, 2017, 10:07:23 am
Just watching Trump babble on at CPAC. Could anybody do a more effective job of making an **** of themselves? I think I have heard him completely contradict himself at least 3 times now. What w jerk!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 24, 2017, 03:46:12 pm
Just watching Trump babble on at CPAC. Could anybody do a more effective job of making an **** of themselves? I think I have heard him completely contradict himself at least 3 times now. What w jerk!

Obama did and his legacy is in tatters.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 24, 2017, 03:52:36 pm
Obama did and his legacy is in tatters.
Tatters? One of the best departing approval ratings of any two term president in the history of the US. Maybe do a little research before you post your bias feelings. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 24, 2017, 05:01:01 pm
Tatters? One of the best departing approval ratings of any two term president in the history of the US. Maybe do a little research before you post your bias feelings.

Approval ratings won't matter when the republicans take an axe to everything obama did.  It's why he suggested to trump to get things done through congress.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 24, 2017, 06:23:46 pm
Approval ratings won't matter when the republicans take an axe to everything obama did.  It's why he suggested to trump to get things done through congress.
Like Obama care which a majority of Americans approve of. We'll see how the ratings go for dufus.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 24, 2017, 09:29:09 pm
Like Obama care which a majority of Americans approve of. We'll see how the ratings go for dufus.

He doesn't care about ratings, only seats.  The midterms will be his report card
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 24, 2017, 11:05:14 pm
He doesn't care about ratings, only seats.  The midterms will be his report card


I still don't get how you see him caring about the Republican Party.  He has no interest in them.  He cares only for his own interests and ego.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 24, 2017, 11:13:40 pm
He doesn't care about ratings, only seats.  The midterms will be his report card
If he makes it that far before his own party dumps him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 25, 2017, 05:31:49 am
Approval ratings won't matter when the republicans take an axe to everything obama did.
I mentioned this before. It's bad faith governance. They take an axe to everything Obama did then the nxt time a Democrat gets into office they take an axe to everything the Republicans are doing. It's an unworkable and nihilistic approach to governing. It also ignores the fact that the executive is supposed to represent everyone, not just a narrow segment of the population.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 25, 2017, 10:45:50 am

I still don't get how you see him caring about the Republican Party.  He has no interest in them.  He cares only for his own interests and ego.

He has to care otherwise all he has are executive orders which are very easy to overturn
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 25, 2017, 10:51:30 am
I mentioned this before. It's bad faith governance. They take an axe to everything Obama did then the nxt time a Democrat gets into office they take an axe to everything the Republicans are doing. It's an unworkable and nihilistic approach to governing. It also ignores the fact that the executive is supposed to represent everyone, not just a narrow segment of the population.

Bill Clinton and the republicans worked together and the result was a very strong economy and a stable government.  Things started becoming incredibly divisive when Iraq was invaded and only got worse from there.  Obama was also starting to take an axe to things republicans were doing and he had to as he was elected on it.  The president has to work with congress to pass laws that don't get overturned.  The USA has been very divided for more than a decade and if there is a recession the republican experiment is over.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 25, 2017, 11:19:22 am
Quote
Obama was also starting to take an axe to things republicans were doing

Like what?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 25, 2017, 01:13:46 pm
Like what?

Iraq war, passing Dodd frank, passing obama care for starters.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 25, 2017, 01:15:14 pm
Iraq war,

Was winding down anyway.  Obama simply followed what Bush planned.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 25, 2017, 02:02:36 pm
Iraq war, passing Dodd frank, passing obama care for starters.

So you think wars should last  forever?

I would have said Guantanamo....  but removing a military prison that is ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court isn't exactly "taking an axe" to any Republican policies.

But on the other two things you said, what Republican policies did Obama take an axe to?  Passing legislation is not taking an axe to anything...   Your analogy is poor.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 25, 2017, 10:23:37 pm
So you think wars should last  forever?

I would have said Guantanamo....  but removing a military prison that is ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court isn't exactly "taking an axe" to any Republican policies.

But on the other two things you said, what Republican policies did Obama take an axe to?  Passing legislation is not taking an axe to anything...   Your analogy is poor.

They last till they are won.  Either win or don't start then.  Bushs legacy was supposed to be the war on terror.  Obama pulled a page out of the 1970s democrat playbook.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 25, 2017, 10:56:46 pm
They last till they are won.  Either win or don't start then.  Bushs legacy was supposed to be the war on terror.  Obama pulled a page out of the 1970s democrat playbook.

I don't recall you being worrie about Canada pulling out of Afghanistan before we won...   why the difference?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 26, 2017, 12:26:30 am
They last till they are won.  Either win or don't start then.  Bushs legacy was supposed to be the war on terror.  Obama pulled a page out of the 1970s democrat playbook.
[/quote
Do you have any VALID ideas as to why Bush went into either Iraq of Afghanistan? And I wonder how you would suggest either one of those could have been ...WON . Your response ought to be interesting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 26, 2017, 05:05:31 am
I don't recall you being worrie about Canada pulling out of Afghanistan before we won...   why the difference?

Was Afghanistan won?  In my opinion the intentions of turning those countries into future Japan, Germany, and South Korea was a bit too naive.  A lesson the west is learning the hard way.  Those wars cost trillions of dollars and the way they were fought hadn't shown much of a return on investment in my opinion, however for someone else they may have as wars fought over there are better than being fought here.  Hard to say as none of us have a seat that close to power to know what's going on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 26, 2017, 05:13:27 am
They last till they are won.  Either win or don't start then.  Bushs legacy was supposed to be the war on terror.  Obama pulled a page out of the 1970s democrat playbook.
[/quote
Do you have any VALID ideas as to why Bush went into either Iraq of Afghanistan? And I wonder how you would suggest either one of those could have been ...WON . Your response ought to be interesting.

Afghanistan was started over harbouring terrorists over 9/11 and bush had the political capital to start that one.  Iraq was said to have been started over chemical weapons, but I think was seen as an opportunity to pick off saddam and seen as the easiest opportunity to try and pop up a state like a Germany, Japan, or South Korea. 

The problem that the Americans had was I don't think they expected to see insurgency on an order of magnitude like it was.  Unfortunately to win a war in the Middle East which is one of the most fought over pieces of land in history one has to look at history of how it was taken over time and let's just say it was not pretty.  There isn't political will to fight a war there and winning by getting your hands dirty.  Expect future involvements over there to be precision drone strikes taking out leaders and further destabilizing the place as attempting to build a western style nation there has utterly failed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 26, 2017, 04:26:03 pm
Was Afghanistan won?  In my opinion the intentions of turning those countries into future Japan, Germany, and South Korea was a bit too naive.  A lesson the west is learning the hard way.  Those wars cost trillions of dollars and the way they were fought hadn't shown much of a return on investment in my opinion, however for someone else they may have as wars fought over there are better than being fought here.  Hard to say as none of us have a seat that close to power to know what's going on.

You seem to be contradicting yourself.

You say Obama was wrong to leave...   why was Canada right to leave Afghanistan before we won the war?


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 26, 2017, 08:03:19 pm
You seem to be contradicting yourself.

You say Obama was wrong to leave...   why was Canada right to leave Afghanistan before we won the war?

Based on the parameters of how the war was going to be fought, they shouldn't have used ground troops in the first place.  The problem with using ground troops and then immediately retreating when some losses happen is that it takes the perception of strength away and emboldens enemies such as what happened in Somalia. 

The problem with nation building in that part of the world is that they weren't as far along as Germany South Korea and Japan.  There's fighting a war to sack the government and quickly getting out which is what should have been done and then there is waiting around doing the nation building which puts soldiers not on initiative and leaves them liable to insurgency.  Had the goal have been just sacking the government in Iraq and Afghanistan and saying if we get messed with the next government gets sacked - that would have been far better than trying to install a puppet government.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 26, 2017, 08:41:21 pm
Based on the parameters of how the war was going to be fought, they shouldn't have used ground troops in the first place.  The problem with using ground troops and then immediately retreating when some losses happen is that it takes the perception of strength away and emboldens enemies such as what happened in Somalia. 

The problem with nation building in that part of the world is that they weren't as far along as Germany South Korea and Japan.  There's fighting a war to sack the government and quickly getting out which is what should have been done and then there is waiting around doing the nation building which puts soldiers not on initiative and leaves them liable to insurgency.  Had the goal have been just sacking the government in Iraq and Afghanistan and saying if we get messed with the next government gets sacked - that would have been far better than trying to install a puppet government.
Could you repeat all that in English?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 26, 2017, 09:11:10 pm
Obama was also starting to take an axe to things republicans were doing

Like what?

Iraq war, passing Dodd frank, passing obama care for starters.

I don't get how passing Dodd Frank or ObamaCare were "taking an axe to things Republicans were doing".

Dodd Frank and ObamaCare were both responses to things that Republicans weren't doing.

Regarding ObamaCare, the Republicans steadfastly refused any sort of changes to the healthcare system. They knew that many people wanted it, but didn't care. They only cared when they realized the issue had a lot of traction with voters. They decided that promising to take everyone back to "law of the jungle" insurance policies wasn't a winning election platform, so in 2012 Mitt Romney promised a plan that would somehow keep parts of Obamacare that people liked, without the parts people didn't like, like the "individual mandate" which is vital in funding the whole thing.  In 2016 Trump campaigned promising a "beautiful" plan that would be "so much better" than Obamacare and "much less expensive".  And the Republicans clearly don't actually have a plan, and the plan is apparently to return to the law of the jungle, which was probably the plan all along. Somewhere around 20 million people are going to lose their insurance, and that's going to come home to roost.

Regarding Dodd Frank,  Dodd Frank was actually a response to Wall Street deregulation, which was actually a bipartisan effort, with the Glass-Stegall act being near the end of Bill Clinton's second term.  Clinton, under the advice of Alan Greenspan, also steadfastly opposed placing any regulation on "derivatives", which was one of the main causes of the financial collapse of 2007-8.

The Glass-Stegall act was enacted in response to the stock market collapse of 1929, and when it was repealed in 1999, it was just 8 years before the biggest financial collapse since 1929. Coincidence? Maybe? Who can say?  The consensus among economists seem to be that the repeal of Glass Stegall was a minor contributor while the lack of regulation on derivatives was the major factor.


Republicans seem to believe that financial institutions can be trusted to regulate themselves, but clearly they can't.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 26, 2017, 11:10:16 pm
Like what?


Iraq war, passing Dodd frank, passing obama care for starters.


I don't get how passing Dodd Frank or ObamaCare were "taking an axe to things Republicans were doing".

Dodd Frank and ObamaCare were both responses to things that Republicans weren't doing.

Regarding ObamaCare, the Republicans steadfastly refused any sort of changes to the healthcare system. They knew that many people wanted it, but didn't care. They only cared when they realized the issue had a lot of traction with voters. They decided that promising to take everyone back to "law of the jungle" insurance policies wasn't a winning election platform, so in 2012 Mitt Romney promised a plan that would somehow keep parts of Obamacare that people liked, without the parts people didn't like, like the "individual mandate" which is vital in funding the whole thing.  In 2016 Trump campaigned promising a "beautiful" plan that would be "so much better" than Obamacare and "much less expensive".  And the Republicans clearly don't actually have a plan, and the plan is apparently to return to the law of the jungle, which was probably the plan all along. Somewhere around 20 million people are going to lose their insurance, and that's going to come home to roost.

Regarding Dodd Frank,  Dodd Frank was actually a response to Wall Street deregulation, which was actually a bipartisan effort, with the Glass-Stegall act being near the end of Bill Clinton's second term.  Clinton, under the advice of Alan Greenspan, also steadfastly opposed placing any regulation on "derivatives", which was one of the main causes of the financial collapse of 2007-8.

The Glass-Stegall act was enacted in response to the stock market collapse of 1929, and when it was repealed in 1999, it was just 8 years before the biggest financial collapse since 1929. Coincidence? Maybe? Who can say?  The consensus among economists seem to be that the repeal of Glass Stegall was a minor contributor while the lack of regulation on derivatives was the major factor.


Republicans seem to believe that financial institutions can be trusted to regulate themselves, but clearly they can't.


 -k

For obamacare, I think yes Cruz articulated what was the issue, which was business owners having a gun to their heads to provide insurance when they hit 50 employees.  They hold at 49 and stop growing.  Sometimes profit margins are too small to afford it.  Speaking of affording it, premiums have shot up.  The problem is that since healthcare is so heavily regulated it makes it expensive vs laser eye surgery which keeps coming down yet has more doctors entering that field among other cosmetic surgery.  The USA is slowly running out of money to fund entitlements which includes healthcare.  And then government funded healthcare isn't much better as taxes increase and rationing occurs.  Pick your poison.  Perhaps people will need to start becoming more and more healthy.

As for Dodd frank, a knee jerk reaction which has yielded the USA not achieving 3% growth for more than 8 yrs.  how has Dodd frank helped, it just let a lot of people sit on a lot of bailout money as the corporate community is going to sit on their money when the government unpredictably passes regulations that stifle growth.  Another example of government over regulating which means they will bailout companies for making bad decisions when said companies should fail.  Fear checks greed and if government is trying to keep fear in check, greed runs rampant.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 26, 2017, 11:18:36 pm
For obamacare, I think yes Cruz articulated what was the issue, which was business owners having a gun to their heads to provide insurance when they hit 50 employees.  They hold at 49 and stop growing.

Now back that up with actual facts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on February 26, 2017, 11:44:50 pm
Now back that up with actual facts.

https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/individuals-and-families/find-out-how-aca-affects-employers-with-fewer-than-fifty-employees

For some companies that would be a big expense and decisions have o be made on expansion.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 27, 2017, 12:31:27 am
For obamacare, I think yes Cruz articulated what was the issue, which was business owners having a gun to their heads to provide insurance when they hit 50 employees.  They hold at 49 and stop growing.  Sometimes profit margins are too small to afford it.  Speaking of affording it, premiums have shot up.  The problem is that since healthcare is so heavily regulated it makes it expensive vs laser eye surgery which keeps coming down yet has more doctors entering that field among other cosmetic surgery.  The USA is slowly running out of money to fund entitlements which includes healthcare.  And then government funded healthcare isn't much better as taxes increase and rationing occurs.  Pick your poison.  Perhaps people will need to start becoming more and more healthy.

Why is the richest nation on earth having such trouble funding healthcare for so many of its citizens when other western nations seem able to handle the issue without leaving millions without healthcare?


As for Dodd frank, a knee jerk reaction which has yielded the USA not achieving 3% growth for more than 8 yrs.  how has Dodd frank helped, it just let a lot of people sit on a lot of bailout money as the corporate community is going to sit on their money when the government unpredictably passes regulations that stifle growth.  Another example of government over regulating which means they will bailout companies for making bad decisions when said companies should fail.  Fear checks greed and if government is trying to keep fear in check, greed runs rampant.

Alan Greenspan's theory was that danger of financial losses would keep financial institutions from taking excessive risks.

Dick Fuld pocketed in the neighborhood of $400 million in salary and bonuses in the years leading up to the collapse of Lehman Brothers, the 150 year old investment bank he was CEO of.  Do you think he gives a **** that he ran Lehman Brothers into the ground? Why would he? He made $400 million in salary and bonuses by putting Lehman Brothers on the risky path that sent it slamming face-first into the ground. He didn't have to give that money back.   Did Dick Fuld act the way he did based on the belief that the government would bail out Lehman Brothers? No. Dick Fuld acted the way he did based on the belief that Dick Fuld would walk away with $400 million in his bank account.

The insurance writers at American International Group didn't get paid based on the long-term health of AIG. They got paid based on how many policies they sold.  Did the policy writers at AIG issue so many insurance policies for credit default swaps and other shady "derivative"  products based on the belief that the government would bail out AIG if the insurance payouts killed the company?  No. They wrote all those risky insurance policies based on the premised that they would pocket a bunch of money.

Angelo Mozilo made Countrywide the most aggressive issuer of subprime mortgages in America. Do you think Angelo feels bad that Countrywide corkscrewed into the ground just as hard as Lehman brothers? Angelo Mozilo made $470 million dollars by slamming Countrywide into the ground. Do you think he cares whether the government bailed them out afterward?

These guys invented a system-- derivatives, credit default swaps, mortgage-based securities-- that let them issue as many bogus mortgages as possible (google the phrase "anybody who can fog a mirror" for details) and pass the risk along to suckers.  Simple process.:
 1) Issue mortgages to literally anybody who applies.
 2) Bundle shitty mortgages into securities called "mortgage based securities".
 3) Strong-arm bond rating agencies like Standard & Poors and Moody's into giving A+ ratings to your shitty MBSs.
 4) Sell MBSs to suckers, so that when the mortgages tank, somebody else is on the hook.
Easy.

So they had invented a machine that turns straw into gold, and they needed a whole lot of straw to feed the machine. So they knowingly issued mortgages to people they knew full well were deadbeats, put them in pools, bundled them into securities that they could sell, and sold them to suckers.

(Suckers-- anybody who bought mortgage-based securities as an investment-- suckers like me and probably you as well, who had RRSPs that included mortgage-based securities as a component.) 

The system worked great... up until 2007 when investment fund managers started noticing that mortgage-based securities were tanking (which is what happens when you issue mortgages to "anybody who can fog a mirror".)  Suddenly people weren't buying Mortgage Based Securities anymore. Suddenly companies like Countrywide and Lehman Brothers had a problem.  Mortgage originators (like Countrywide) had all these mortgages they couldn't sell to mortgage securitizers (like Lehman Brothers.) Mortgage securitizers (like Lehman Brothers) had all these mortgage-based securities that they couldn't sell to suckers anymore.  Countrywide and Lehman Brothers and all the other companies in the industry had spent all this money buying straw to turn into gold, and then found themselves in serious trouble when the machine wouldn't turn straw into gold anymore.


You say that fear is supposed to keep greed in check.  Ok.  But what caused these financial institutions to lose their fear and let greed run while wasn't the idea that the government would bail them out if they messed up.  What caused them to lose their fear was their belief that they had invented a scheme that let them gamble as much as possible and pass the risk along to suckers. And that should never have been allowed to happen.  That's why there needs to be regulation.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 27, 2017, 12:51:12 am
https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/individuals-and-families/find-out-how-aca-affects-employers-with-fewer-than-fifty-employees

For some companies that would be a big expense and decisions have o be made on expansion.

Right, so I'm asking for proof that companies that could have expanded beyond 50 employees didn't because of the ACA.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 27, 2017, 03:00:44 am
You say that fear is supposed to keep greed in check.  Ok.  But what caused these financial institutions to lose their fear and let greed run while wasn't the idea that the government would bail them out if they messed up.  What caused them to lose their fear was their belief that they had invented a scheme that let them gamble as much as possible and pass the risk along to suckers. And that should never have been allowed to happen.  That's why there needs to be regulation.
The trouble with regulation is you can have dumb regulation which can be more harmful than the problem that you are trying to prevent.

A part of the meltdown story which never gets reported because it illustrates how bad regulation was really the problem - not NO regulation.

Under the the international Basel capital requirements, banks had an incentive to buy mortgage  backed securities because mortgage  backed securities allowed them to reduce the amount of reserve capital they needed to maintain. When these securities went bad the banks lost their *reserve capital* which is why we had an international banking crisis on our hands. There would have been no crisis if the stupid regulation allowing mortgage backed securities to be used as bank reserves did not exist.

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-banks-bought-so-many-toxic-mortgage-bonds-2009-8

You should also note that that the Basel regulations are NOT solely under the control of the US government so you can't simply blame the republicans for these short comings. Nor does a removal of the Frank Dodd necessarily mean a repeat since the updated Basel regulations are still in effect.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Peter F on February 27, 2017, 06:50:08 am
Quote
Under the the international Basel capital requirements, banks had an incentive to buy mortgage  backed securities because mortgage  backed securities allowed them to reduce the amount of reserve capital they needed to maintain. When these securities went bad the banks lost their *reserve capital* which is why we had an international banking crisis on our hands. There would have been no crisis if the stupid regulation allowing mortgage backed securities to be used as bank reserves did not exist.

Mortgage backed securities are fine ... unless the ratings don't reflect the actual make-up of the MBS. When those banks subject to Basel capital requirements don't even bother to do any homework for the sole reason that if they did then they wouldn't be able to lend as much and it turns out that the MBS's were really **** and they go broke, well the Basel Capital requirements don't really mean much for regulation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 27, 2017, 08:47:59 am
Mortgage backed securities are junk if the only requirement to get a mortgage is a pulse.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 01, 2017, 09:54:49 pm
The real problem with the government bail-outs, aside from the cost to taxpayers, is that most of the institutions which engaged in risky and even illegal activities should have been pushed into bankruptcy and their owners, including shareholders, where they were public institutions, should have lost everything. This would have incentivized the shareholders of other companies to make damned sure that the people running the companies followed rules meant to protect the company, and didn't simply go for maximum short term profit to maximize their bonsuses.

The second problem, of course, was that those guys who made millions or even hundreds of millions walked away Scot free. They should have been shot, or at the very least forfeited every last dime they owned. That didn't happen. There was no punishment at all. There is therefore no reason why executives of the major US banks won't engage in precisely the same sorts of activities if the financial regulations are withdrawn. As Kimmy said, why shouldn't they? And as we've seen recently from Wells Fargo, the bonus systems still in place incentivize people at those banks to do whatever makes their numbers look good.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on March 04, 2017, 10:25:05 am
3 days ago Trump was getting accolades for being able to read a speech.

Now he is tweeting about Obama putting the wiretaps on him.

Either:

1) Obama, or someone else, broke the law or

2) An agency had a warrant to tap Trump for a good reason (good enough to convince a judge for the tap).

I think #2 is more likely but #1 is possible.



Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 04, 2017, 10:30:33 am
I see no evidence for it, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised. You've got to remember that it was already established that his campaign was involved with Russia and that Russia hacked the DNC. If Obama did wiretap Trump Tower, it was almost certainly under the advice of the intelligence community for the security of the state and the safety of the American people. Donald Trump and his entire team are enemies of the state and frankly should be up on treason charges.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 04, 2017, 01:21:14 pm
Trump should either put up or shut up. He has so far failed to produce a shred of evidence for what is a very serious charge. Personally, I hope he shuts to F up because I am getting tired of his BS, although it is a tad entertaining.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 04, 2017, 08:00:13 pm
Trump should either put up or shut up. He has so far failed to produce a shred of evidence for what is a very serious charge. Personally, I hope he shuts to F up because I am getting tired of his BS, although it is a tad entertaining.

The Trump MO, he gets to say anything he wants and you have to prove him wrong. He doesn't have to provide evidence for anything.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 04, 2017, 08:59:29 pm
The Trump MO, he gets to say anything he wants and you have to prove him wrong. He doesn't have to provide evidence for anything.
That certainly seems to be how it's going. I have to scratch my head wondering how such a dufus gets such a free ride.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on March 05, 2017, 08:54:59 am
I'm not sure which is nuttier - the American President or the French election.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on March 05, 2017, 09:00:16 am
Or Edrogen - he could be just as nutty too.

Angela Merkel is a Nazi.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on March 05, 2017, 12:54:03 pm
Trump advisor Roger Stone was up late last night doing a drunk Twitter rampage (perhaps he learned it from Donald!) in which he seems to indicate collaborating with WikiLeaks regarding "the goods" on #CrookedHillary.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170305042412/https:/twitter.com/RogerJStoneJr/status/838239138834853888

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on March 05, 2017, 01:13:32 pm
One name I had heard mentioned a while back in regard to Trump's Russia connections was Carter Page.  I heard the name Carter Page connected with a conspiracy theory, which holds that a large Russian oil company-- Rosneft-- gave a big stake in the company to an unknown recipient in December.  The catch is, Rosneft has been struggling mightily since the US imposed sanctions on Russia in regard to the annexation of Crimea. The new owner of that stake in Rosneft will find themselves extremely wealthy if the sanctions against Russia get lifted.  That's the conspiracy theory, anyway... along with the innuendo that the new owner of that stake in Rosneft might happen to be "some individual" who happens to have the power to lift US sanctions against Russia.

I didn't put much stock in it at the time, but Carter Page has been in the news in the last couple of days.  So perhaps the names "Carter Page" and "Rosneft" are worth keeping in mind as this Russia business moves forward.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on March 05, 2017, 01:22:06 pm
That certainly seems to be how it's going. I have to scratch my head wondering how such a dufus gets such a free ride.
Simple: the left/media has spent the last 20+ years vilifying anyone that did not dutifully parrot the progressive view as morally defective, if not evil. This has created an environment where many people who do not share the progressive political opinions simply don't care what the media says anymore.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on March 05, 2017, 02:07:49 pm
Seems like Trump is taking the wiretap allegations very seriously.

He is not leaving any stone, sand trap, water hazard, rough, fairway, or putting green unturned this weekend.    ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 05, 2017, 02:11:20 pm
He's the president. He has access to all of the executive files from his government and every government before him. He wants Congress to investigate, when he has all the files himself already. Every day he looks dumber.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 05, 2017, 02:21:27 pm
These are words he actually spoke.

Quote
Look, having nuclear—my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart—you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world—it’s true!—but when you're a conservative Republican they try—oh, do they do a number—that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune—you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged—but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me—it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are (nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right—who would have thought?), but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners—now it used to be three, now it’s four—but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years—but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us.

Video clip here (http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2015/07/31/donald_trump_this_run_on_sentence_from_a_speech_in_sun_city_south_carolina.html), if you don't believe me. The guy is an imbecile.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 05, 2017, 03:26:30 pm
Simple: the left/media has spent the last 20+ years vilifying anyone that did not dutifully parrot the progressive view as morally defective, if not evil. This has created an environment where many people who do not share the progressive political opinions simply don't care what the media says anymore.
So you are happy then with Trump's rapid advancement of the fake news system. Sorry, I'll stick with the old style fact checked style thanks.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on March 05, 2017, 03:28:21 pm
I read that in his voice cyber, so I don't need to see it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 05, 2017, 04:36:16 pm
Trump should either put up or shut up. He has so far failed to produce a shred of evidence for what is a very serious charge. Personally, I hope he shuts to F up because I am getting tired of his BS, although it is a tad entertaining.

What, only NOW are you getting tired of his BS?!

He'll produce his evidence soon, I'm sure. He's keeping it with the evidence of those millions of illegal voters and his tax returns.

Where it'll be safe.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on March 05, 2017, 06:29:36 pm
Seems like Trump is taking the wiretap allegations very seriously.

He is not leaving any stone, sand trap, water hazard, rough, fairway, or putting green unturned this weekend.    ;D

It sounds more like OJ's quest to find the real killers every day. 

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 05, 2017, 09:37:27 pm
What, only NOW are you getting tired of his BS?!

He'll produce his evidence soon, I'm sure. He's keeping it with the evidence of those millions of illegal voters and his tax returns.

Where it'll be safe.
Nah, I think most of us got tired of his BS long ago. But yeah let's see this evidence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 06, 2017, 10:08:52 am
It sounds more like OJ's quest to find the real killers every day. 

 -k
Hah! That's a good comparison and all I'll be able to imagine every time he opens his mouth now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 06, 2017, 10:30:38 am
FBI says nope, so is Donald saying they were running a Watergate plumbers operation? That would be a crime. So would withholding evidence of a crime. So Donald has given his evidence to the FBI. Right?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on March 06, 2017, 10:36:41 am
So you are happy then with Trump's rapid advancement of the fake news system. Sorry, I'll stick with the old style fact checked style thanks.
Hell no. I just happen to have some perspective on why Trump won. The left has spent too many years demonizing moderates who do not happen to agree with many of the progressive policy positions. This created an environment where a Trump could win because the left had cried wolf too many times and no one was listening any more. The way back from this mess starts with the left acknowledging that they cannot reasonably expect everyone to agree with their progressive policies and to start engaging with moderates instead of screaming racists/fascist/denier whenever they hear an opinion they don't like.
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on March 06, 2017, 11:10:58 am
The left has spent too many years demonizing moderates

Tea party moderates?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 06, 2017, 11:51:51 am
Hell no. I just happen to have some perspective on why Trump won. The left has spent too many years demonizing moderates who do not happen to agree with many of the progressive policy positions. This created an environment where a Trump could win because the left had cried wolf too many times and no one was listening any more. The way back from this mess starts with the left acknowledging that they cannot reasonably expect everyone to agree with their progressive policies and to start engaging with moderates instead of screaming racists/fascist/denier whenever they hear an opinion they don't like.
Your "perspective" seems to be simply a fairly flimsy swipe at people who think differently than you. My perspective is more based on facts. Trump picked up his EC votes im largely "rust belt" states after he promised to deliver jobs so they held their noses and voted for him. If he fails to provide those jobs he'll be sent kicking horse turds down the road in 2020, if he isn't impeached first.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on March 06, 2017, 07:47:36 pm
Hell no. I just happen to have some perspective on why Trump won. The left has spent too many years demonizing moderates who do not happen to agree with many of the progressive policy positions. This created an environment where a Trump could win because the left had cried wolf too many times and no one was listening any more. The way back from this mess starts with the left acknowledging that they cannot reasonably expect everyone to agree with their progressive policies and to start engaging with moderates instead of screaming racists/fascist/denier whenever they hear an opinion they don't like.

Of *course* it's the left's fault, eh?   Some day I'm going to run across a post or blog or something from a conservative which says "We screwed up".   Heck,even saying "yeah, "the left" did ______, but we conservatives also ____".   I won't hold my breath, though.   

I've recently asked two conservatives to condemn the right-wing nutjobs who sent death threats and other threats to Khalid; neither would.   Will you?  Or will you continue to pretend that only 'the left' screams abuse?
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on March 06, 2017, 10:21:40 pm
I read that James Comey is like 6'9.  If Trump keeps calling him a liar, maybe he'll reach down and squish Trump's orange head like an over-ripe peach.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on March 07, 2017, 11:27:51 pm
Nigeria is advising its citizens to avoid non-essential travel to the US.

I wonder: why doesn't Trump want to make tourism great again?


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on March 08, 2017, 02:14:34 am
Nigeria is advising its citizens to avoid non-essential travel to the US.

I wonder: why doesn't Trump want to make tourism great again?

For the sake of argument, I have a hunch that Nigerian tourism isn't exactly a huge contributor to the US economy to start with.


However, I've heard that Trump has already had a significant negative effect on US tourism.  (except to Mar-A-Lago, of course.)  I have a hunch there's also an up-tick in visits to New York by Muscovites.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on March 08, 2017, 08:20:39 am
It doesn't stop at Nigeria though.

Brown skinned Canadian born citizens are allegedly being harrassed at the border: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/canadian-denied-entry-us-immigrant-visa-1.4011202

I was reading a tourist publication somewhere indicating that flights to the US were up 3% in January and then were flat in February. 

Could be seasonal variation or could be the start of a reactionary trend to find alternative destinations. The coming months will show one way or the other.

The one country that did not see any decline in people to the US in February was Germany: cue the nazi jokes, I guess. 

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on March 17, 2017, 09:47:45 am
Remember two months ago and all the "embarrassment" about a Churchill bust being returned to England?

Yeah, that looks quaint now, no?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/us-makes-formal-apology-britain-white-house-accuses-gchq-wiretapping/

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on March 17, 2017, 06:29:41 pm
Hell no. I just happen to have some perspective on why Trump won. The left has spent too many years demonizing moderates who do not happen to agree with many of the progressive policy positions. This created an environment where a Trump could win because the left had cried wolf too many times and no one was listening any more. The way back from this mess starts with the left acknowledging that they cannot reasonably expect everyone to agree with their progressive policies and to start engaging with moderates instead of screaming racists/fascist/denier whenever they hear an opinion they don't like.

I'm just so sick and tired of being called a racist by the left that gosh darn it, I'm gonna vote for the most racist candidate there ever was just to show them how unracist I am!

 ::)

Is that what you're saying?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 17, 2017, 06:36:50 pm
Hell no. I just happen to have some perspective on why Trump won. The left has spent too many years demonizing moderates who do not happen to agree with many of the progressive policy positions.

snowflake... might you be a demonized moderate?  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on March 22, 2017, 07:17:12 pm
On top of Monday's bombshells:

https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/844702108125401088

This is grounds for impeachment, IMO. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 22, 2017, 08:19:06 pm
On top of Monday's bombshells:

https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/844702108125401088

This is grounds for impeachment, IMO.

And not just in your opinion.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/324948-dem-lawmaker-get-ready-for-impeachment
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 22, 2017, 08:42:22 pm
If the evidence is found but don't expect things to happen in a hurry if it is.  Watergate took one night, impeaching Nixon took another two years.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 23, 2017, 06:12:25 pm
I'm just so sick and tired of being called a racist by the left that gosh darn it, I'm gonna vote for the most racist candidate there ever was just to show them how unracist I am!

 ::)

Is that what you're saying?

I think what's he's saying is that the mainstream media has kind of lessened their credibility with a big chunk of the population through repeated politicizing of their news coverage which makes their progressive agenda all too obvious. Their expressed cultural values are often condescending when not being contemptuous towards the values of a broad section of the population. Which, as you might expect, tends to turn people off. So when the same media tells them Trump is such a bad guy because he doesn't share their values, well, a lot of people are prepared to say "GOOD! Then he's my boy!"

And btw, I'm one of those people who hates Trump and rolls his eyes when people say you can't trust the "MSM".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 29, 2017, 10:16:25 pm
So Trump's travel ban gets shut down yet again by the courts. Can this orange haired cretin who now sits in the WH not comprehend what the Constitution he is duty bound to uphold actually says?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 30, 2017, 07:33:06 am
I'm pretty sure Donald Trump doesn't even understand the purpose of the Constitution.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on March 30, 2017, 11:30:43 am
Donald Trump is musing on Twitter about changing libel laws to hold the failing New York Times accountable for their two years of false attacks on him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 30, 2017, 11:57:32 am
It seems he simply will not take the good advice from others to lay off the Twitter account I guess if you're nothing but a twit it's what you do.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on March 30, 2017, 01:59:15 pm
Bombshell (again)

https://twitter.com/KevinNewmanCTV/status/847520970374086657
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 31, 2017, 07:41:07 am
I'm surprised no one has brought up the fact that Michael Flynn is asking for immunity now.

My thoughts on the matter is that there's too much heat on the administration now and they're going to try to pull an Oliver North.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on March 31, 2017, 09:23:46 am
Adam Schiff says we should learn why Flynn wants immunity when Sally Yates testifies.  The White House has been trying to prevent Yates from testifying by claiming that things she is going to speak about are protected under "Presidential privilege". This sounds interesting.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on March 31, 2017, 09:25:32 am
"Where there's smoke, there's fire!!!"   -Trump supporters on Hillary Clinton.

"Where there's smoke--   WHO INSTALLED ALL THESE **** SMOKE DETECTORS?!"  -Trump supporters on Russia probe.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 31, 2017, 04:48:23 pm
Don't think Flynn will ever get immunity whilst he is under an FBI criminal investigation. Talk about government departments working at odds with each other!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 31, 2017, 05:47:41 pm
And the Senate Intelligence Committee has already rejected his request for immunity.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 01, 2017, 12:08:11 am
Apparently according to Trump and Flynn when you seek immunity you must be guilty. There are a bunch of **** idiots in the WH. Not even worth discussing beyond that realization I reckon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on April 01, 2017, 09:21:57 am
I am finding the gaining and use of political capital interesting.

Trump effectively has none and seems incable of even knowing how to gain any other than in the short run. All reactionary tactics and no strategy.

Trudeau still has lots, knows how to use it, and knows how to gain some.

It is an interesting contrast between a "successful" business man bringing "business experience" and a large ego to the job vs someone who doesn't bring any of that baggage.

Of course, I would also trust Trudeau to look after the interests of Canada, or even the US, before Russia so there's that too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on April 01, 2017, 09:32:10 am
Today, Justin Trudeau was playing April Fool's jokes.

Donald Trump was lashing out at journalists....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 01, 2017, 12:48:38 pm
It's still early days but the future isn't looking good for The Donald. So far all he has been able to do is sign executive actions. Unless he can actually get some legislation of his own through a Congress that has shown no inclination to do anything but destroy existing legislation, his reputation as a deal maker will be shot. Business will know it can just ignore him and his threats.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 01, 2017, 01:58:39 pm
Oh but he may well get a few dozen coal miners back down underground and on their way to full time employment, at least until black lung kills them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on April 01, 2017, 04:07:20 pm
Today, Justin Trudeau was playing April Fool's jokes.

Donald Trump was lashing out at journalists....

Maybe he was just kidding...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on April 01, 2017, 06:45:04 pm
Maybe....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on April 01, 2017, 09:07:00 pm
Oh but he may well get a few dozen coal miners back down underground and on their way to full time employment, at least until black lung kills them.

Next he will bring back Blockbuster and all those video store rental jobs!

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 01, 2017, 09:47:06 pm
Good, so folks like you can get off welfare and go back to work.
I'm sure you are looking forward to it. You'll need to educate yourself a bit about movies. I'm sure you'll be fine.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 01, 2017, 10:55:18 pm
I'm sure you've never had a real job, and spend your days in mommas basement.
I only wish I could have stayed in the basement. Instead of all those many long hours flying all over the world. But the practical education I received along the way seems to be something you wish you had had.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on April 02, 2017, 09:38:57 am
It's poor form for a new member (there are 27, btw - this forum is only 2 months old) to to have 2 of their first five posts be personal attacks.  Those posts are gone. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on April 02, 2017, 10:45:22 am
Trump's polling after only two-ish months: 

https://mobile.twitter.com/PollsAndVotes/status/848345576722898945/photo/1

Sad!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on April 02, 2017, 11:57:55 am
It's poor form for a new member (there are 27, btw - this forum is only 2 months old) to to have 2 of their first five posts be personal attacks.  Those posts are gone.

I can still say ****, though, right?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on April 02, 2017, 04:35:11 pm
I can still say ****, though, right?

You most certainly can - a little **** never hurt anyone.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on April 02, 2017, 04:36:23 pm
I see... but it's fine for others though. Enjoy your echo chamber.

I'm sorry you feel that way.  Contributions are valued here, as (as you pointed out) there aren't that many regular contributors.  That's mostly because this forum exists as a relief valve for another.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on April 03, 2017, 10:10:06 pm
No point dwelling on generation snowflake so lets move on...

Came across the story of Max Planck and his chauffeur tonight:

Quote
I frequently tell the apocryphal story about how Max Planck, after he won the Nobel Prize, went around Germany giving the same standard lecture on the new quantum mechanics.

Over time, his chauffeur memorized the lecture and said, “Would you mind, Professor Planck, because it's so boring to stay in our routine, if I gave the lecture in Munich and you just sat in front wearing my chauffeur's hat?” Planck said, “Why not?” And the chauffeur got up and gave this long lecture on quantum mechanics. After which a physics professor stood up and asked a perfectly ghastly question. The speaker said, “Well I'm surprised that in an advanced city like Munich I get such an elementary question. I'm going to ask my chauffeur to reply.”

The point of the story is to distinguish between real knowledge and facile knowledge. 

As explained in the link, politicians, con men, and the like (i.e. Donald Trump) have chauffeur knowledge rather than true knowledge.

Donald Trump, being a con man politican, is perhaps the greatest current example of this.

What I find amazing is how people fall for this?

Link:  https://www.farnamstreetblog.com/2015/09/two-types-of-knowledge/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 06, 2017, 02:34:33 pm
Well Trump now says he is going to do "something" about Assad. Only a few days ago he was saying there was no reason to do anything about him. Tillerson made a comment that whether Assad should stay or go must be left up to the Syrian people. Ha ha ha. Now after seeing some of the horrible pics from the latest attack he has had some of his "lines crossed". I guess the stupid twit wasn't aware that this war has been going on for 6 or so years. The question is what will he actually do that won't upset his overseer Putin?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 06, 2017, 03:15:40 pm
However, I've heard that Trump has already had a significant negative effect on US tourism.  (except to Mar-A-Lago, of course.)
Actually, the area around Mar-A-Lago is suffering as well.... Trump's frequent visits there have disrupted several of the businesses in the area.

From: https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/02/17/trump-florida-visits-put-small-airport-tailspin/NnGgAPQa4wd2Ecpy4wspbO/story.html
President Donald Trump wants small businesses to thrive, but his frequent Mar-a-Lago visits have flight schools and other companies at a nearby airport in a financial nosedive. The Secret Service closed Lantana Airport on Friday for the third straight weekend because of the president’s return to his Palm Beach resort, meaning its maintenance companies, a banner-flying business and another two dozen businesses are also shuttered, costing them thousands of dollars at the year’s busiest time..
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 06, 2017, 03:25:25 pm
Well Trump now says he is going to do "something" about Assad. Only a few days ago he was saying there was no reason to do anything about him. Tillerson made a comment that whether Assad should stay or go must be left up to the Syrian people. Ha ha ha. Now after seeing some of the horrible pics from the latest attack he has had some of his "lines crossed". I guess the stupid twit wasn't aware that this war has been going on for 6 or so years. The question is what will he actually do that won't upset his overseer Putin?
Yup, Trump certainly stuck is foot in it.

Syria is a mess.. a real dumpster fire with no easy answers. Everyone who wasn't a Trump supporter knew he had no idea what he was talking about during the election when he said he had plans to fix the problem. And Trump's praise of Russia and Putin will come back to haunt him; despite both the U.S. and Russia fighting ISIS, they are not allies, with Russia trying to prop up Assad, while the U.S. (at least under Obama) favored various non-ISIS rebel groups.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 06, 2017, 04:21:14 pm
Yup, Trump certainly stuck is foot in it.

Syria is a mess.. a real dumpster fire with no easy answers. Everyone who wasn't a Trump supporter knew he had no idea what he was talking about during the election when he said he had plans to fix the problem. And Trump's praise of Russia and Putin will come back to haunt him; despite both the U.S. and Russia fighting ISIS, they are not allies, with Russia trying to prop up Assad, while the U.S. (at least under Obama) favored various non-ISIS rebel groups.

I was not the biggest fan of Hillary Clinton's (although I certainly preferred her to Trump) and at least on this issue she had a plan that she spelled out that included various things including establishing a no-fly zone over Syria to prevent the types of attacks we just saw. Trump simply made another hollow comment something along the lines of "Oh yeah, we have a plan, but of course no details. Whether Hillary would have been successful with her plan I guess we'll never know. Now Trump is actually meeting with his military adviser so as to actually come up with a plan. What I have heard so far is there is speculation he may be planning to bomb some of the airfields that launched the aircraft the latest attack came from. Of course Assad will laugh at that, he can simply launch the next one with rockets. I got to travel through Syria years ago and found for instance that Damascus was a lovely city with very friendly people. I can't imagine what kind of horror show it's been turned into now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 06, 2017, 05:43:48 pm
Trump simply made another hollow comment something along the lines of "Oh yeah, we have a plan, but of course no details.
But Trump did have a plan.. first he said he'd fire all then generals. Then he'd ask all the generals to sit down and write up a plan to defeat ISIS. Then he said it didn't matter because he was smarter than the Generals.

For better or worse, I think ISIS will be defeated (at least militarily in Syria/Iraq), and probably during Trump's tenure. Not that I think he'll be responsible (although he may claim credit)... but ISIS was going to run into problems anyways. (They're running out of stuff to sell or steal in order to pay their troops, and opposition in the area is better organized.)

Quote
Now Trump is actually meeting with his military adviser so as to actually come up with a plan. What I have heard so far is there is speculation he may be planning to bomb some of the airfields that launched the aircraft the latest attack came from. Of course Assad will laugh at that, he can simply launch the next one with rockets.
Of course, any plan runs the risk of being opposed by Donald's friends, the Russians.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 07, 2017, 10:33:14 pm
I can't escape the feeling the Syria bombing was a ploy to hide the puppet strings. It seems very House of Cards, but the fact that they warned Russia means Putin warned Assad, which makes one wonder what the point of it was. If they have time to get everyone important out of the way and then just leave a few sacrificial Syrian civilians to make Donald look like a war President, they have all to gain and nothing to lose.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 07, 2017, 11:17:18 pm
Knocking out 20 or so aircraft is like a "fly in an elephants ass" when you consider just how quickly the Russians could and will replace them many times over. You might think if you wanted to F up an airbase you might just blow a hole or two in the runway. Reports say planes have already continued operations. I suspect Trump knew/knows very well he has legal problems with any kind of further escalation of attacks on Syria, so he will simply try and tell everyone how he acted "bigly" (while enjoying dinner at his gold course), and that's all for now folks. And then Russia's boy toy will continue murdering his people.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on April 07, 2017, 11:58:32 pm
I think he did the right thing with the symbolic slap on the wrist.  I think that it's the first time I've actually agreed with anything he did.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 08, 2017, 02:48:22 pm
So Trump gives us all, as one reporter put it, whiplash with his about face on Syria, launches an attack which at the end of the day will only help ISIL, then he pisses away another $3 million to run down to Mara Laga for yet another round of golf, and when he's between holes he's tweeting about the latest missile attack. And of course he says the pictures of chemically burned children moved him to do so while at the same time he has locked the door to them from escaping those attacks by coming to the States. How the hell could anyone take this twit seriously!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 08, 2017, 08:24:57 pm
And if Russia was aware an hour in advance and they're now really upset with Trump for doing this, why did they not even attempt to shoot the missiles down?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on April 08, 2017, 10:59:04 pm
Someone on Twitter said it best - you can tell Russia doesn't care because they sent out Medvedev to say that they care.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on April 09, 2017, 04:55:55 pm
And if Russia was aware an hour in advance and they're now really upset with Trump for doing this, why did they not even attempt to shoot the missiles down?

Maybe because Russia has no real ability to shoot down 60 cruise missiles.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 09, 2017, 05:30:59 pm
Well they do actually but the S 300/400 systems are only in place at the Russian airbases, and they have a limited range. I suspect they didn't want to waste resources fighting off a pre programmed attack. Much easier to just lay low for a few hours and then continue operations the next day.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on April 09, 2017, 06:45:58 pm
Russia is actually a lot weaker than they seem/many think.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 09, 2017, 06:55:57 pm
Russia is actually a lot weaker than they seem/many think.

Yes indeed, their economy is currently the size of Italy's. And then they spend so much of it on military hardware. But of course they do have nukes so we ought not push them too far.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on April 09, 2017, 10:50:26 pm
Well they do actually but the S 300/400 systems are only in place at the Russian airbases, and they have a limited range.

Yes very limited  ;D :

https://youtu.be/FoM5a6v6410
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 09, 2017, 11:05:33 pm
Yes very limited  ;D :

https://youtu.be/FoM5a6v6410

Somebody forget to fill up the gas tank? Off to the Gulag!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on April 09, 2017, 11:44:45 pm
Saw on twitter tonight:

Trump could have done more damage to that airfield if he bought it and ran it as a business. 

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 10, 2017, 12:39:41 am
Saw on twitter tonight:

Trump could have done more damage to that airfield if he bought it and ran it as a business.
Problem is, these days, the only way Trump can afford to buy a business is to take out a loan from a Russian bank.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on April 10, 2017, 11:41:49 am
Yes indeed, their economy is currently the size of Italy's. And then they spend so much of it on military hardware. But of course they do have nukes so we ought not push them too far.

They have four times our population but a smaller GDP than Canada. Think about what spending enough of our GDP on the military to have a Russian sized military would do to us. On to of that, of course, is the extreme corruption whereby so much of what the country does have is stolen by a small cadre of oligarchs around Putin.

Most Russians live in what Canadians would consider to be extreme poverty.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 10, 2017, 10:29:42 pm
So Trump disparaged Obama for his golf games and he's going to "stay at the WH and work my ass off". Boy did that turn out to be yet another lie. So far he has been to Mara Laga 17 times and pissed more money away riding fruitlessly around in Air Force One than Obama did in eight years. He's a joke to us Canucks I guess but if I was an American I'd be looking for a way impeach the **** toute suite.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on April 11, 2017, 04:11:52 pm
So Trump disparaged Obama for his golf games and he's going to "stay at the WH and work my ass off". Boy did that turn out to be yet another lie. So far he has been to Mara Laga 17 times and pissed more money away riding fruitlessly around in Air Force One than Obama did in eight years. He's a joke to us Canucks I guess but if I was an American I'd be looking for a way impeach the **** toute suite.

The problem with posting something like that HERE is that you're not going to find anyone to argue with you.  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 11, 2017, 04:15:41 pm
The problem with posting something like that HERE is that you're not going to find anyone to argue with you.  ;D

Not sure why you would see that as a problem. It's good to have people agree with you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 11, 2017, 05:13:49 pm
I guess since Putin is not even planning to visit with Tillerson during his latest visit, the likelihood of another Order of Friendship Award is rather slim.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on April 12, 2017, 08:39:08 am
It's pretty bad when the official White House spokesperson is so dense that Alex Jones even thinks he's an idiot. Sean Spicer said the Nazis didn't use chemical weapons then went on to try to explain what he meant five different ways and it's still no less stupid than when he first said it. These people aren't qualified to pack bags at a grocery story, let alone run a country.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 12, 2017, 04:27:51 pm
According to Trump not so long ago, NATO was "obsolete", today it's a great institution. Does Trump ever say the same thing two days in a row? The media that are forced to follow him are getting whiplash from the constant flip flops.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 12, 2017, 07:44:37 pm
He just figured out he needs NATO as much as it needs him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 13, 2017, 11:15:00 am
According to Trump not so long ago, NATO was "obsolete", today it's a great institution. Does Trump ever say the same thing two days in a row? The media that are forced to follow him are getting whiplash from the constant flip flops.
Yes, its amazing how much Trump has "learned", that should have been obvious to someone with even a thimbleful of intelligence/political insight...

Such as:

"Nobody Knew health care could be so complicated".
- Donald Drumph.
(See: http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/27/politics/trump-health-care-complicated/)

Well, Donald, most people actually did know that.

Or how about Trump, North Korea and China:
"After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy."
- Donald Drumph
http://www.vox.com/2017/4/12/15279654/trump-north-korea-xi-10-minutes

The U.S. could have voted for a candidate like Hillary, an imperfect candidate but at least one who actually had political experience and a set of realistic policies. Instead, they elected a racist orangutan with no political experience who's campaign mostly involved spouting half-baked (and often contradictory) ideas.  So instead of getting a president who knows what they're doing right from day 1, they get a president who needs training wheels.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 16, 2017, 01:00:15 am
The so called Cuban Missile Crisis was a scary time as I've learned, but at least we had two leaders at the helms who had some brains, and avoided WWIII. Today we have Kim and "The Hair". Is anybody else a little edgy on this current edition? Maybe Trump has a fortified bunker under Mar A Laga so he stays close.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on April 16, 2017, 03:14:00 am
The problem with posting something like that HERE is that you're not going to find anyone to argue with you.  ;D

On that subject, you can't get Trump supporters at the other place to argue with you either. They won't even acknowledge the point.   "yeah well benghazi or something."

Trump decides to go all interventionist in the middle east after campaigning against exactly that?  "yeah well Obama wiretaps or something."

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 16, 2017, 09:02:50 am
The so called Cuban Missile Crisis was a scary time as I've learned, but at least we had two leaders at the helms who had some brains, and avoided WWIII. Today we have Kim and "The Hair". Is anybody else a little edgy on this current edition? Maybe Trump has a fortified bunker under Mar A Laga so he stays close.

Under Mar a Lago he would probably need a submarine.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 19, 2017, 11:06:05 am
So it seems the Commander in Chief can't keep track of what his navy is up to. That is "reassuring".

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/18/uss-carl-vinson-wasnt-headed-for-north-korea-when-defense-officials-said-it-was.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 20, 2017, 11:19:18 am
On that subject, you can't get Trump supporters at the other place to argue with you either. They won't even acknowledge the point.   "yeah well benghazi or something."
Its a problem when discussing American politics right now...

If everyone agrees, there's not much to discuss and things get boring. But Trump is so indefensible that nobody can really build any arguments in support of him without resorting to such petty tactics.

Quote
Trump decides to go all interventionist in the middle east after campaigning against exactly that?
Well, that's not exactly fair to trump.. after all, he was actually all for bombing Libya and invading Iraq at one point.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 20, 2017, 04:33:12 pm
So Trumps" AG doesn't seem to think Hawaiians are valid Americans, including their judges. Maybe that's why even after Obama proved he was born there Trump still saw him as unqualified to be POTUS. Not hard to see how Jeff Sessions became part of the Trump "team".

  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/04/20/jeff-sessions-doesnt-think-a-judge-in-hawaii-a-k-a-an-island-in-the-pacific-should-overrule-trump/?utm_term=.c4cdd0dda98c
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 20, 2017, 08:53:07 pm
Posted this on the dark side as well.  Does anyone think Team Trump or the RNC knew or cared about this?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/19/venezuela-donation-donald-trump-inauguration (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/19/venezuela-donation-donald-trump-inauguration)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 20, 2017, 11:49:39 pm
So Donald Trump got "hired", and now Bill O'Reilly got fired and yet they both seem to be equally guilty of sexual assault. How do Trump supporters square that circle I wonder?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 26, 2017, 02:35:04 pm
So Trump has now laid out his new tax plan where he has readjusted tax rates. So now, for instance a fire fighter who is married will pay 24%, and Trump will pay 15%. His corporate rate reduction will amount to $4 trillion. He better hope against hope that Mexico changes their mind about paying for that wall.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 26, 2017, 03:29:58 pm
Crank up the presses, Papa needs another 4 trillion.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 26, 2017, 04:44:02 pm
He also wants to remove estate tax so the kids will get Trump Towers tax free. "Thanks daddy"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 27, 2017, 10:02:09 am
He also wants to remove estate tax so the kids will get Trump Towers tax free. "Thanks daddy"
But how could Trump have known that? After all, he put all his holdings in a blind trust!

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/09/30/donald-trump-blind-trust-foreign-business-deals-500398.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 27, 2017, 12:10:12 pm
But how could Trump have known that? After all, he put all his holdings in a blind trust!

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/09/30/donald-trump-blind-trust-foreign-business-deals-500398.html

That was about keeping everyone else blind.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on April 27, 2017, 02:31:08 pm
Seems like Trudeau has more pull than people give him credit for:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trump-trudeau-nafta-renegotiation-1.4088545
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on April 28, 2017, 12:43:24 am
Do you really think Trudeau could change Trump's mind on anything? 

I think Trump was just posturing with the whole ripping up NAFTA rhetoric.  He's a business man, he was starting at his end game and negotiating down.  Threaten to rip it all up, slap on a tariff and once we see where things could be headed, he has all the leverage for a favourable negotiation.

Now he looks like he threw us a bone when he played us like a chump. 

I don't buy it for a sec that Trudeau would change Trump's mind if Trump was actually serious about pulling out of NAFTA.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on April 28, 2017, 08:32:19 am
That's just it - Trump isn't serious about anything.  He's simply most greatly influenced by the latest/most popular person to talk to him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 28, 2017, 11:24:41 am
Do you really think Trudeau could change Trump's mind on anything? 

I think Trump was just posturing with the whole ripping up NAFTA rhetoric.  He's a business man, he was starting at his end game and negotiating down.  Threaten to rip it all up, slap on a tariff and once we see where things could be headed, he has all the leverage for a favourable negotiation.

Now he looks like he threw us a bone when he played us like a chump. 

I don't buy it for a sec that Trudeau would change Trump's mind if Trump was actually serious about pulling out of NAFTA.

I think you give Trump too much credit. He just postures for his base. Trudeau was probably partly responsible and I think he is doing the right thing by sticking to the facts and not descending to Trump's level. Trump also probably had a talk from the thirty odd state governors who's states depend on Canadian trade. This isn't a real estate deal or stiffing your creditors and contractors.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on April 28, 2017, 04:37:58 pm
Wilber, aren't you contradicting yourself if you think Trump was posturing for his base AND you think Trudeau influenced him? 

Do you or do you not believe that Trump had no intention of ripping up NAFTA?  If you think he was just posturing for his base, that means he had no intention.

Hence, Trudeau made no difference.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 28, 2017, 07:17:13 pm
Wilber, aren't you contradicting yourself if you think Trump was posturing for his base AND you think Trudeau influenced him? 

Do you or do you not believe that Trump had no intention of ripping up NAFTA?  If you think he was just posturing for his base, that means he had no intention.

Hence, Trudeau made no difference.

I believe Trump has said a lot of things to his base that he intended to do but can't. Why? He is always in campaign mode because he doesn't know what he is doing. He has to be told so after he has shot is mouth off and then make out like it was his idea all the time. It works great with his base but falls apart under serious scrutiny.

Just look at his travel ban and sanctuary city decrees. All it took to get them both shot down was to show the court his own tweets.

The reason most of the world is afraid of Trump is because it believes he is incompetent. Making him POTUS is like handing a six year old a running chainsaw.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 28, 2017, 09:17:49 pm


The reason most of the world is afraid of Trump is because it believes he is incompetent. Making him POTUS is like handing a six year old a running chainsaw.

And even worse, a running chainsaw can't vaporize people on the other side of the globe. Such as what might happen in a "major, major conflict".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on April 30, 2017, 11:39:48 am
Do you really think Trudeau could change Trump's mind on anything? 

I think Trump was just posturing with the whole ripping up NAFTA rhetoric.  He's a business man, he was starting at his end game and negotiating down.  Threaten to rip it all up, slap on a tariff and once we see where things could be headed, he has all the leverage for a favourable negotiation.

Now he looks like he threw us a bone when he played us like a chump. 

I don't buy it for a sec that Trudeau would change Trump's mind if Trump was actually serious about pulling out of NAFTA.

This is exactly it. These are his SMRT negotiating tactics. He is the deal guy. He is the art of the deal. He makes bigly bigly deals. He is a SMRT negotiator, the best negotiator. High energy negotiations. He is the greatest negotiator, probably the greatest of all time, nobody does bigly bigly deals like Donald, believe me folks.

No doubt when the negotiators meet, the American negotator is going to be "good cop" to Donald's "bad cop".  He will say stuff like "guys, you gotta give me something here that I can take back to Donald. Donny's crazy, he's ready to blow this whole thing up. If you can move on the dairy issue, I might be able to go back to Donald and convince him this is a good deal. You have to give me something I can take back to Donald or he's going to blow the whole thing up."

This was just more crap from his handbook of alpha-male gamesmanship. Like his handshake trick, or when he went on Larry King and told King he had terrible bad breath. "That's how you get the edge," King realizes.  Years later, King had Trump on the show again, and they talked about that incident, and Trump said this:

Quote
TRUMP: [...] but I took such heat because you were saying, "How do you put people off guard? What do you do to put people off guard?" And I said, "Well, Larry, your breath is absolutely terrible." And you even were offended by it, and you forgot the first part of your question.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCnTGhZD4ds

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 30, 2017, 02:36:57 pm
After having skipped out of the White House Correspondents dinner, but after having had a chance to listen to the jokes, Trump is thinking about taking a look at the 1st amendment. Could there be a coincidence?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 30, 2017, 05:35:42 pm
After having skipped out of the White House Correspondents dinner, but after having had a chance to listen to the jokes, Trump is thinking about taking a look at the 1st amendment. Could there be a coincidence?

I absolutely think he should take a look at the 1st Amendment. Then he might understand it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 30, 2017, 05:57:08 pm
I absolutely think he should take a look at the 1st Amendment. Then he might understand it.

That's a pretty lengthy bit of reading for a guy like Trump, but maybe if he took a weekend from golf and let the 747 cool down a bit, he could at least get a start at it. Of course that would make the damn job even harder: "so forget it, Mara Laga here I come"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 01, 2017, 12:02:11 pm
Quote
After having skipped out of the White House Correspondents dinner, but after having had a chance to listen to the jokes, Trump is thinking about taking a look at the 1st amendment. Could there be a coincidence?
I absolutely think he should take a look at the 1st Amendment. Then he might understand it.
I absolutely hope he actually changes it to make it easier to sue people for libel.

Why? Because the one that will get sued the most is probably Trump himself. Imagine Trump getting dragged through the courts every time he tweets something foolish, or makes some sort of unsubstantiated claim at one of his rallies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 01, 2017, 02:13:24 pm
Yes I guess I don't know enough about US law but I recall being a bit stunned while suffering through the US Presidential debates at how Trump could slink around scoffing at Hillary and calling her a liar, liar, liar, and all that lock her up stuff and not get sued for defamation or something.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 01, 2017, 04:14:06 pm
I absolutely think he should take a look at the 1st Amendment. Then he might understand it.
Hey wait a second... there's actually a first amendment? I thought the U.S. bill of rights started with the 2nd amendment. And stopped there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 09, 2017, 09:44:33 am
Latest Trump news...  He may have actually just committed a felony.

Right before Sally Yates was to testify, Trump wrote a tweet: Ask Sally Yates, under oath, if she knows how classified information got into the newspapers soon after she explained it to W.H. Counsel. Some are taking that to be a veiled threat (as in "we are going to pin security leaks on you"). The problem is, it is against the law to threaten someone with the goal of changing their testimony:

“Whoever knowingly uses intimidation, threatens, or corruptly persuades another person, or attempts to do so, or engages in misleading conduct toward another person, with intent to influence, delay, or prevent the testimony of any person in an official proceeding … shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.”

http://www.salon.com/2017/05/09/did-donald-trump-try-to-threaten-sally-yates-on-twitter-if-so-he-committed-a-felony/

Meanwhile, during Yates' testimony, 2 main things stood out:

- Yates confirmed that she warned the white house about Flynn long before Flynn was fired, yet the white house continued to keep him in cabinet

- Republicans in congress seem to be very.... apathetic to investigating the Russian-Trump connections. In fact, Ted Cruz actually tried to use Yates' testimony to bring up Hillary's emails.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2017/05/09/gop-shoots-messenger-sally-yates-testimony/7pFlDZKB6SRct2xiJWYMSN/story.html

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on May 09, 2017, 06:16:13 pm
- Republicans in congress seem to be very.... apathetic to investigating the Russian-Trump connections. In fact, Ted Cruz actually tried to use Yates' testimony to bring up Hillary's emails.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2017/05/09/gop-shoots-messenger-sally-yates-testimony/7pFlDZKB6SRct2xiJWYMSN/story.html

There have been so many conflicts of interest with his businesses and nobody seems to care, I have little faith that anything will come of the Russian connection even if they find a smoking gun.  Exactly as you say, Republicans don't seem to care and they control Congress and the Senate.

As Trump said himself during the primaries, he could go out on the street and shoot someone and his supporters wouldn't care.  Sad but true.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on May 09, 2017, 10:01:47 pm
FBI: Fired By Idiot
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 11, 2017, 02:17:10 pm
FBI: Fired By Idiot
Yes, Comey has been fired by Trump.

Democrats are calling it suspicious (based largely on the timing). Trump supporters are trying to label the Democrats as "hypocrites" since they were calling for Comey to be fired a long time ago. (Trump supporters are ignoring the fact that most people aren't concerned about him being fired, but that he was fired now, after being praised repeatedly by Trump both before and after the election, and at a time when possible ties between Russia and the Trump campaign are being investigated.

I think the big winner in all this: The President Nixon presidential library, which used Twitter to publish: "FUN FACT: President Nixon never fired the Director of the FBI."

Think about it... when comparing Nixon to Trump, Nixon may end up being the less corrupt one.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on May 12, 2017, 01:01:44 pm
Not only was Comey fired by Trump, but he's now saying he would have fired him with or without the recommendation from the Justice Department. To make matters worse for Trump, he also threatened Comey this morning, saying "I hope there's no tape of our conversations."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 12, 2017, 01:38:56 pm
Not only was Comey fired by Trump, but he's now saying he would have fired him with or without the recommendation from the Justice Department. To make matters worse for Trump, he also threatened Comey this morning, saying "I hope there's no tape of our conversations."
And even worser (or since that's not a word, how about "Huugely worse" in trump speak):

- Deputy A.G. Rod Rosenstein (who wrote a memo pointing to some of the flaws with Comey but didn't recommend actually firing him) is actually upset that he has been linked to the firing, to the point where he was thinking of resigning

- The other person Trump supposedly got Trump to fire Comey was Sessions; yet Sessions had previously recused himself from the Russia/Trump investigation.

http://www.businessinsider.com/rod-rosenstein-james-comey-firing-2017-5

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 12, 2017, 03:38:04 pm
Poor old Sean Spicer of course got hammered again today at the briefing, and on his first day back from a break as well. If anyone is suffering from whiplash due to Trump's endless  conflicting stories it has to be him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 15, 2017, 11:48:41 am
Poor old Sean Spicer of course got hammered again today at the briefing, and on his first day back from a break as well. If anyone is suffering from whiplash due to Trump's endless  conflicting stories it has to be him.
Given the fact that he took the job voluntarily, and knew before hand that Trump was more than a little... unbalanced, its hard for me to find sympathy for someone who supported (and continues to support) the racist-orangutan-in-chief.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 15, 2017, 06:05:31 pm
Given the fact that he took the job voluntarily, and knew before hand that Trump was more than a little... unbalanced, its hard for me to find sympathy for someone who supported (and continues to support) the racist-orangutan-in-chief.

Oh I totally agree with you, he made his bed he so he has to (lie/lye) in it. It's just you can almost see his blood pressure rising as he has to try and cover yet another Trump contradiction. It is rumored he may be on the way out of that post. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 15, 2017, 07:46:55 pm
I think he has probably done as well as most people could in his position. I don't see Huckabee Sanders being an improvement.

Might as go whole hog and give it to Kellyanne.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 15, 2017, 08:39:21 pm
I think he has probably done as well as most people could in his position. I don't see Huckabee Sanders being an improvement.

Might as go whole hog and give it to Kellyanne.

Boy if they do that, I'm sure as hell tuning out. Listening to her makes my BP go up. Remember those Xmas gifts little girls used to get were they pulled a string and the doll talked?.....Hmmm, I think just  got a marketing idea. Arkansas here I go.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 16, 2017, 12:29:34 pm
Boy if they do that, I'm sure as hell tuning out. Listening to her makes my BP go up. Remember those Xmas gifts little girls used to get were they pulled a string and the doll talked?.....Hmmm, I think just  got a marketing idea. Arkansas here I go.

I'm wondering how many reporters wouldn't show up. If they did, i would be for entertainment, not information.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 16, 2017, 12:45:28 pm
So now, Trump may have given away classified information (regarding ISIS terrorist activities) to the Russians.

First a few half-hearted denials from Trump surrogates that "it didn't happen", then statements (from Drumph himself) that he had a "right" to do so and that it was good thing because "Russia is fighting ISIS too".

So many problems:
- It is true... the president has the right to declassify documents, but generally that is only done after careful consideration and consultation with staff.. Trump just (more or less) blurted it out.

- Even if Trump had the legal authority to declassify information, that information came from a 3rd party, that trusted the U.S. to keep it safe. Now that they've found that they can't trust Trump, they may be less forthcoming with information that may help the U.S.  (Yet Trump supporters somehow think Trump will be effective against the terrorsts.)

- Despite what Trump might think/claim, Russia is not our ally. They are more likely to bomb civilians in Syria than they are ISIS.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/05/15/report_president_trump_leaked_highly_classified_information_to_russian_officials.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on May 17, 2017, 12:37:04 pm
Even better is Trump's pretty much definitive obstruction of justice.  This can't last too much longer.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 17, 2017, 02:08:52 pm
Even better is Trump's pretty much definitive obstruction of justice.
Are you referring to the memo that Comey wrote, saying that Trump asked him to stop the investigation into Flynn?

Or are you referring to Trump's statement about "releasing tapes" (that some see as a veiled threat to Comey)?
Quote
This can't last too much longer.
Actually yes it can.

While the occasional republican have made the occasional "Bad Trump" comment, overall the republicans have shown an almost complete lack of morality as of late, and are only interested in maintaining power. (Just look at Devin Nunes, who is supposedly someone responsible for investigating Trump wrong-doing, but seemed to be more interested in providing political interference, and investigating the bogus wiretap claim.) So while you may get a few republican congressmen complaining about some of Trump's actions, they won't make any effort to actually stop him (through impeachment or other means), because, well, he's a fellow Republican who can help ensure tax cuts to the wealthy.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on May 17, 2017, 02:51:43 pm
Are you referring to the memo that Comey wrote, saying that Trump asked him to stop the investigation into Flynn?

Or are you referring to Trump's statement about "releasing tapes" (that some see as a veiled threat to Comey)?

Take your pick.  I hadn't even thought of the second case. 

Quote
Actually yes it can.

I was actually thinking that we could yet see him facing some kind of criminal charges.  I'll change what I said from this can't go on much longer to this has gone on long enough.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 17, 2017, 07:41:13 pm

I was actually thinking that we could yet see him facing some kind of criminal charges. 

We could but only after he is impeached.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on May 17, 2017, 08:05:40 pm
We could but only after he is impeached.

Yeah, it's really stupid that the President is basically above the law in all matters.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 17, 2017, 09:04:17 pm
Yeah, it's really stupid that the President is basically above the law in all matters.

It must be difficult to be an American currently, whether you voted for Trump or not, to see your government essentially come to a halt due to nothing more than obvious incompetence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on May 18, 2017, 09:37:24 am
Comey to testify in public!

Special prosecutor appointed!

**** has gotten real.

It is getting to the point where Republicans in the senate and house of reps are going to have to decide whether continuing to support El Trumpo will kill their own careers.  Some-- those outside the Deep South, at least-- may decide to jump off the Trumptanic before it hits the iceberg.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on May 18, 2017, 07:00:55 pm
It was also revealed today that the investigation has turned into a criminal investigation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on May 18, 2017, 10:09:20 pm
And also that Michael Flynn does not intend to honor the subpoenas issued to him.

I can only imagine that we're going to see a white Ford Bronco low-speed chase on the DC Beltway before long.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on May 19, 2017, 02:36:09 pm
Apparently, the investigation has now turned to a very close current aide to Donald Trump.  it's also reported that Trump told the Russians that getting rid of the nut job FBI director eased a great pressure.  The White House does not dispute this account.  Things are moving very quickly.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on May 19, 2017, 05:19:25 pm
Does.the States have extradition agreement with Saudi Arabia?   

Just kidding, I don't think he can be arrested can he?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 23, 2017, 11:16:30 am
Apparently, the investigation has now turned to a very close current aide to Donald Trump. 
I think the 'person of interest' is Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner.

Kushner, who seems to be given every job possible in the white house (including redesigning government, arranging visits by foreign leaders, bringing peace to the middle east), despite the fact that:
- His education is suspect (he was a poor high school student and might have only gotten into Harvard thanks to bribes from his parents)
- His business qualifications may be just as bad as Trump's, with him paying millions more for a property on Fifth Ave. New York than it was worth. (Possibly resulting in Kushner talking to Russian banks to help keep the business afloat.)

However, he does make good Subway sandwiches. (Or is that the other Jared?)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/jared-kushner-russia-investigation-trump-song-in-law-probe-person-interest-a7745916.html

Quote
it's also reported that Trump told the Russians that getting rid of the nut job FBI director eased a great pressure.  The White House does not dispute this account.
He also asked other people in the intelligence committee to help end the investigation into the Trump-Russian ties.

http://www.npr.org/2017/05/22/529586885/report-trump-asked-intel-heads-to-push-back-on-fbi-russia-probe
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on May 23, 2017, 06:34:30 pm
But he visited the wall - that's something, right?  Right?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 23, 2017, 07:59:06 pm
But he visited the wall - that's something, right?  Right?

He did, and I have to wonder as to the contents of his prayer there. "Please don't let Comey agree to testify, especially in open court, please don't let Flynn take the fifth, and Puhlease don't let Brennan tell on me". I reckon that's all he had time for.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 24, 2017, 10:36:55 am
He did, and I have to wonder as to the contents of his prayer there. "Please don't let Comey agree to testify, especially in open court, please don't let Flynn take the fifth, and Puhlease don't let Brennan tell on me". I reckon that's all he had time for.
Flynn taking the fifth is an embarrassing (given previous comments by Trump about how "pleading the fifth means you're guilty"), but I think it would probably be worse for Trump if Flynn actually did talk. "Yeah, I colluded with the Russians. And told Trump about it. He said 'good work'."

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on May 24, 2017, 09:24:34 pm
It appears that Trump supporters honestly don't give a **** about anything their big orange hero does, and will say anything to make excuses for him, even if it directly contradicts the stuff he said during the campaign.

Hillary was a giant hypocrite for claiming to be a feminist while accepting charitable contributions from countries where women are treated like slaves. But now that Ivanka is accepting charitable contributions from countries where women are treated like slaves, she's a big hero who women should applaud.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on May 25, 2017, 08:23:38 am
The UK has stopped sharing police intelligence about the Manchester bombing with the US after leaks.  I'm not sure whose fault it is, but as they say, it stops at the top.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on May 25, 2017, 08:36:36 am
I don't see how you can blame that one on Trump...

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 25, 2017, 10:45:47 am
I don't see how you can blame that one on Trump...
"I love Wikileaks"
- Donald Trump

But, Trump has definitely run a very loose ship.... His own security breaches don't set a very good example for others in the government, and he has been very foolish in 1) firing many in the government who didn't need to be fired, 2) leaving many positions vacant, or filling them with people who are not competent, and 3) insulting many in the law enforcement/intelligence community. When you do those sorts of things, the chance of problems like this happening probably increases.

OK, its possible that the leak had nothing to do with Trump. Its possible that it might have happened even if Hillary had become president. However, if that is true, I certainly have some feelings of schadenfreude (a german word meaning "pleasure in the misfortune of others"). After years of Trump, other republicans and their supporters pinning anything and everything on Obama or Hillary (regardless of how untrue the accusations were), seeing Trump get blamed for things that may not be his fault seems like rather fair turnabout.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on May 25, 2017, 09:57:34 pm
I don't see how you can blame that one on Trump...

 -k

How about today, when he pushed the leader of NATOs newest country out of the way so he could be in the front row for the family photo?  Can I blame him for that?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on May 26, 2017, 09:21:03 am
Well, ok. I'll give you that one.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 26, 2017, 10:40:07 am
How about today, when he pushed the leader of NATOs newest country out of the way so he could be in the front row for the family photo?  Can I blame him for that?

Having been pushed around by a couple of school yard bully's in my day, the image you speak of made me shudder, and so completely confirmed my hunch about his true character. Recall his "candid" conversation about what you can do to women when you're "a star"? Pardon me while I go and spit!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on May 26, 2017, 01:54:05 pm
I was so mad when I saw that clip.  The way he stood there arrogantly fixing his coat after and pouting.  Grrr, he's so classless.

Did anyone catch the Macron swerve today?  He's walking toward Trump and near the end Trump puts both palms out to greet him and Macron swerves away toward Merkel and hugs her and shook a bunch of other hands before acknowledging Trump.  Then they got into hand shake wrestle number two.

I'm loving Macron's style.  He's the one who tweeted the video too, haha.  Loved it.

If Trudeau wasn't so scared of Trump, I bet he'd be similar.   

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 26, 2017, 08:38:59 pm
He is a little, graceless man.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on May 27, 2017, 10:27:20 am
I think it's hilarious that his supporters seem convinced that he's an "alpha".

An alpha man wouldn't need to try to impress Billy Bush by talking about what a big star he is.
An alpha man wouldn't need to try to impress Howard Stern by talking about how being the boss of the beauty pageant means he can walk in on the girls while he's changing.
An alpha man wouldn't need to try to impress Russian officials by showing them what cool intel he gets now that he's president.
An alpha man wouldn't need to try to tell Marco Rubio that his **** is very large.
An alpha man wouldn't worry himself with the claim that his hands are tiny.
An alpha man wouldn't explode with rage that people pointed out the size of his inauguration crowd.
 ...etc.

He's not an alpha man.  He's an insecure child.  He was never good enough for daddy, and has spent his whole life trying to make up for it. He craves adulation and respect and validation.  An alpha man wouldn't be so dependent on the opinion of others for validation.

My thoughts on the subject are expressed concisely by Tywin Lannister:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sJY7BTIuPY


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on May 27, 2017, 08:41:15 pm
If Trudeau wasn't so scared of Trump, I bet he'd be similar.

It's not fear, it's Trudeau's style.  He knows he has to work with him, so he's going to.  It's why he's managed to tame him in a way that none of the others in the group can (with the possible exception of Abe - Merkel doesn't have to tame him, so she doesn't even try).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on May 28, 2017, 05:29:59 pm
It's not fear, it's Trudeau's style.  He knows he has to work with him, so he's going to.  It's why he's managed to tame him in a way that none of the others in the group can (with the possible exception of Abe - Merkel doesn't have to tame him, so she doesn't even try).

"He knows he has to work" with him indeed, but with a trade deficit and Trump and his threats of ripping up NAFTA, the ball in in Trump's court and fear does play a role in the Trudeau's knowledge that he has to work with Trump.

In any case, I wasn't criticizing Trudeau.  All I meant, is that I wish he were in a better position to troll Trump the way Macron did (he is PET's son, after all).

But he can't.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 01, 2017, 01:26:23 pm
You know, maybe we've been too hard on Trump. We keep saying how incompetent he is and how he isn't getting anything done. But in reality, there are ways he is far exceeding the record of Obama...

From: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/white-house-staff-waivers-ethics_us_592f9f45e4b0540ffc8473c6?utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&utm_source=main_fb&utm_medium=facebook&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063
President Donald Trump has granted ethics waivers to at least 17 of his top White House aides...The 17 senior White House appointees were all granted waivers in the past four months. His predecessor, Barack Obama, granted that same number of waivers to his top staff over the course of his eight years in office.

See? Trump really is better than Obama!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on June 01, 2017, 02:25:27 pm
But shouldn't the measuring stick really be what Republicans (and their little helpers who stupidly thought Clinton was morally equivalent because, emails! or Bill is a rapist!) think Hillary would have done by now?

Surely she would have had even more ethics waivers and more emails! and more private servers! And Bill would have had more "sexual conquests" as First Man!

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 01, 2017, 07:22:11 pm
The irony is that Trump was going to assign a "special prosecutor" to look into Hillary. Reality is that the first special prosecutor under his administration is looking into him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 07, 2017, 03:37:15 pm
And today's Trump teaching is: How to **** off 2 allies at the same time.

So, several Gulf countries (lead by Saudi Arabia) have moved to isolate Qatar, under accusations that it has supported terrorist organizations. Trump later jumped into the fray and took credit for the move. (Lets ignore for a moment the strangeness of siding with Saudi Arabia, a country where until recently women couldn't drive, in a fight against Qatar over extremism.)

So what's wrong with that?

- It pisses off the Saudis, since now they look like puppets of the U.S.

- It pisses off Qatar, a country that is currently hosting a very important air base (useful in dealing with conflicts in Syria/Iraq and Afghanistan.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/06/donald-trump-qatar-tweets-us-diplomatic-damage
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on June 08, 2017, 02:00:26 pm
All eyes on Comey. 

I'm so pessimistic that Republicans will do the right thing I'm not very hopeful.  Paul Ryan's excuses today were a perfect example of how I think the rest of the Republicans will treat the matter.

Maybe but I'm just bitter but the fact that 34% of Americans even support Trump in spite of the shenanigans doesn't bode well with me.  Anyone here think anything will come of Comey's testimony?

I say tomorrow it'll be another crazy tweet and America's ADD will shift to something new.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 09, 2017, 12:24:17 pm
I want royalties for Comey re-iterating my thread title from months ago on MLW: "Trump is a lying liar who lies."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 17, 2017, 12:05:05 pm
So last week Trump met with Republican senators who are working on the Trumpcare bill.  According to sources, he told the senators that the version of the bill passed by Congress is "mean, mean, mean", "cold hearted", and "a son of a ****."  He encouraged them to make a bill that's "generous, kind, with heart".

...ummm... I feel kind of uncomfortable saying this, but yay Trump?

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/06/trump-throws-his-own-health-care-plan-under-the-bus

The Republicans in congress are not terribly happy.  They've taken a lot of heat over the bill that passed in the House of Representatives.  They did their best to sell it to their constituents.  And they feel like they've been stabbed in the back to have the President come out and excoriate their bill.

http://www.businessinsider.com/house-gop-trump-ahca-mean-health-care-2017-6

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 19, 2017, 12:23:04 pm
So last week Trump met with Republican senators who are working on the Trumpcare bill.  According to sources, he told the senators that the version of the bill passed by Congress is "mean, mean, mean", "cold hearted", and "a son of a ****."  He encouraged them to make a bill that's "generous, kind, with heart".

...ummm... I feel kind of uncomfortable saying this, but yay Trump?
I'm actually kind of disappointed.

What I want is for Trump and the republicans to follow through on each and every one of their campaign promises, including repealing and replacing Obamacare. Why? Because so many of their supporters bought into a load of bunk about Trump "fixing" health care (when in reality he had no idea what he was doing). And statistically Trump supporters are more reliant on Obamacare than Democrat supporters. Like the ex-coal miners who voted for Trump because he "promised to bring coal mining jobs back" (hint: he won't) but rely on Obamacare for insurance.

I want Trump supporters to hurt, and hurt bad. I want to see the coal miners with black-lung who can only get treatment thanks to Obamacare to see their insurance premiums spike, or get cancelled altogether as the republicans "fix" health care.

Maybe then, it will get through to them: Voting in a racist orangutan who lies constantly and makes promises that have no chance of being fulfilled is a bad idea.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/12/27/these-coal-country-voters-backed-trump-now-theyre-worried-about-losing-obamacare/?utm_term=.bcc651313b0f
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on June 27, 2017, 07:37:05 pm
So the guy who cries "Fake News!" has been found out: 

Fake Time magazine covers hanging at his golf courses:  https://t.co/GbabQP5hXQ

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 29, 2017, 12:07:59 pm
I'm actually kind of disappointed.

What I want is for Trump and the republicans to follow through on each and every one of their campaign promises, including repealing and replacing Obamacare. Why? Because so many of their supporters bought into a load of bunk about Trump "fixing" health care (when in reality he had no idea what he was doing).

Whatever happened to HIS plan for health care? He claimed he had one, and that it would somehow warp space and time by providing better health care coverage for less money. Still waiting for HIS plan to defeat ISIS, too, since he said he knew more than the generals.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 29, 2017, 01:19:54 pm
Whatever happened to HIS plan for health care? He claimed he had one, and that it would somehow warp space and time by providing better health care coverage for less money.
"Nobody knew health care could be so complicated"
- Donald Drumph, President of the U.S. and racist orangutan-in-chief

Quote
Still waiting for HIS plan to defeat ISIS, too, since he said he knew more than the generals.
He had a plan... fire all the generals, and ask them to come up with a plan to defeat ISIS within a month of his inauguration.

Or was that ask them for a plan, then fire them? I can never remember.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1375/develop-plan-defeat-isis-30-days/
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/donald-trump-plan-isis_us_57d0b462e4b06a74c9f28ecd
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 29, 2017, 01:33:37 pm
Every day I grow more disgusted with this man child, and feel more contemptuous of his ignorance, his pettiness and lack of class. His election and continued support from a large segment of the population makes me call into question the value of democracy itself. Maybe we need to restrict it through IQ tests, information quizzes that have to be passed, elementary knowledge of basic government structure, perhaps. Although, come to think of it these are all tests Trump would fail. So maybe we should make the candidates pass the tests instead of the voters. Would be cheaper to administer them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on June 29, 2017, 02:17:39 pm
It's so true isn't it.  This morning's tweets about Mika Brzezinski was so immature and perfect example of how a bully behaves.

As much as I dislike George Bush, he didn't disrespect the office of the POTUS like Trump is doing.  I just shake my head in disbelief day after day.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 29, 2017, 02:29:57 pm
Also with Bush, you could debate his policies with reasonably intelligent people. I can't bother to debate with Trump supporters because it's like shooting fish in a barrel and they're too stupid to realize they're getting shot.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 30, 2017, 10:10:13 pm
If Mitt Romney, or Paul Ryan, or Mike Pence were President right now, you could have reasonable discussions based on their policies and their ideologies.

With Trump, the Trumptards will defend his idiocy regardless of what pholosophical or ideological underpinnings it has. it's no longer a matter of political discourse, it's just a matter of team sports. TRUMP NAY-SHAWWWWN--- ya-yah-YAAAAAHH!!!

Trump is the idol of idiot-worshippers.   By their fruits you shall know them."  Matthew 7:16

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 01, 2017, 06:39:22 pm
Trump is the idol of idiot-worshippers.   By their fruits you shall know them."  Matthew 7:16

 -k

The irony is you've just come up with one more bible quote than Trump could manage, and I doubt you're a particularly observant Christian.
Bill Maher said that if the election proved one thing it proved the complete hypocrisy of the evangelical Christian movement in the US, and the so-called Christian right. They had no problem enthusiastically supporting a man who has lived in his life in opposition to everything Jesus Christ allegedly stands for, a serial adulterer who curses like a sailor in public, an avowed hedonist who knows nothing about the bible and doesn't belong to a church, and whose public behavior was and remains the antithesis of Christian.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on July 06, 2017, 10:30:13 am
Every day I grow more disgusted with this man child, and feel more contemptuous of his ignorance, his pettiness and lack of class. His election and continued support from a large segment of the population makes me call into question the value of democracy itself. Maybe we need to restrict it through IQ tests, information quizzes that have to be passed, elementary knowledge of basic government structure, perhaps. Although, come to think of it these are all tests Trump would fail. So maybe we should make the candidates pass the tests instead of the voters. Would be cheaper to administer them.
You would never have a conservative government again. Universities, after all, are just liberal training centres, aren't they? Judges, professors, teachers, college graduates of all sorts. Filthy communists.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 07, 2017, 04:52:23 pm
You would never have a conservative government again. Universities, after all, are just liberal training centres, aren't they? Judges, professors, teachers, college graduates of all sorts. Filthy communists.

People who pay taxes tend to like conservative governments which pay for what needs to be paid for, not everything under the sun, and try to keep the budget in check. Conservatives like dull, basic government which keeps the lights on and the roads cleared and the costs low. They're not so fond of liberal governments which believe any problem is a problem the government needs to address, and that anyone who is poor for whatever reason should be compensated by taking money from those who are not.

Why is it that anyone who is mildly to the right of centre is considered immoral but anyone far, far to the left, including Communists, is fine?

Note: Trump is not a conservative of any sort, nor are most of those in the Republican party leadership.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 07, 2017, 10:11:28 pm
I don't think conservatism is inherently anti-intellectual, it's just that current "conservative" parties seem to have adopted anti-intellectualism as a platform.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 08, 2017, 05:47:46 am
I don't think conservatism is inherently anti-intellectual, it's just that current "conservative" parties seem to have adopted anti-intellectualism as a platform.
 

Not in Canada, though.  They have flirted with it, and Harper and Leech patronize the brainless "I hate brown people" types as much as Trudeau patronizes the "I love brow people" types.

Our parties seem to compromise, or alternately steal from each other, more than the American ones.  Balanced budgets are a thing that Liberals try for and even the NDP was touting it last federal election, ie. lowered spending.

In the US, you have these ridiculous purity tests that are driven by media outlets who try to out-nutbar each other.  This used to happen on the far-left too, but I don't have any examples.

There is a golden path ahead to any party that figures out how to restructure the machine of democracy and government to lower overhead and pass the savings onto its citizens in the form of greater benefits for the poor, and lower taxes for middle and upper income earners.  This was ostensibly what Trump was supposed to do, but he has too many blockers to success.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 08, 2017, 10:41:20 am
I don't think conservatism is inherently anti-intellectual, it's just that current "conservative" parties seem to have adopted anti-intellectualism as a platform.

 -k

Well, exclude the Republicans since they're not conservative. I don't think the Canadian Conservatives support anti-intellectualism. But remember, much of today's university environment is profoundly tilted towards the Left and far Left. Left wing ideology infests academia. It's no small wonder so many conservatives roll their eyes towards the ranting of ivory tower academics with their unworkable theories which ignore human realities and motivations.

The belief the Tories under Harper were anti-intellectual largely came from them ignoring or suppressing activist scientists who were agitating for climate change resolutions. I understood their motivation in ignoring the climate-science types because, to my mind, no reasonable solutions had been proposed to the stated issue. And the Harper Conservatives were not exactly the types to go in for large, costly, complicated and uncertain programs, especially if they were controversial - which is why they never did much of anything about health care, among other topics.

And I don't think the Liberals actions on climate change is in any way a regard or respect for science so much as embracing whatever is fashionably on the Left and an absolute disinterest in how much it will all cost.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 08, 2017, 10:45:35 am
They have flirted with it, and Harper and Leech patronize the brainless "I hate brown people" types as much as Trudeau patronizes the "I love brow people" types.

I'm curious about the parsing of this sentence. If the "I hate brown people" are brainless why aren't the "I love brown people" also brainless?

I also, of course, disagree that either Harper or Leech ever patronized the "I hate brown people" types. It is entirely acceptable to believe in Canadian values and culture and be wary of flooding it with masses of people who embrace none of it (see the Khadrs as poster children) just as it is entirely acceptable to not care a whit about Canadian values and culture and revel in masses of newcomers with wildly different beliefs. Neither has a moral component, despite how much the Left tries to attach one.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 09, 2017, 02:27:00 pm
I'm curious about the parsing of this sentence. If the "I hate brown people" are brainless why aren't the "I love brown people" also brainless?

Why do you think they're not ?

The point is that it's reactionary and brainless politics, yes on both sides.
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on July 10, 2017, 08:50:36 am
Trump's son, Trump's son-in-law, and Trump's campaign manager met with a Russian lawyer in Trump Tower to talk about Trump's campaign...but Trump knew nothing about it? Riiiight.

The meeting (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/09/us/politics/trump-russia-kushner-manafort.html)

The denial (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-trump-whitehouse-idUSKBN19U0YU)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on July 10, 2017, 01:43:23 pm
I don't think the Canadian Conservatives support anti-intellectualism. But remember, much of today's university environment is profoundly tilted towards the Left and far Left. Left wing ideology infests academia. It's no small wonder so many conservatives roll their eyes towards the ranting of ivory tower academics with their unworkable theories which ignore human realities and motivations.


Got it. So Canadian Conservatives aren't anti-intellectualism, they just roll their eyes at anything academia has to say because the theories are rubbish. 

If that's not being anti-intellectual, I'm very curious what you think is.  Maybe you set the boundaries at burning books and throwing professors in jail?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 10, 2017, 07:28:29 pm
The trump campaign attempted to collude with Russia to win the election.   A serious no-no. 

Quote
Richard Painter, a former ethics lawyer for President George W. Bush and a frequent Trump critic, said doing so "borders on treason."
. http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/10/why-donald-trump-jr-s-meeting-with-a-russian-lawyer-matters.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 11, 2017, 03:00:01 pm
Got it. So Canadian Conservatives aren't anti-intellectualism, they just roll their eyes at anything academia has to say because the theories are rubbish. 

If that's not being anti-intellectual, I'm very curious what you think is.  Maybe you set the boundaries at burning books and throwing professors in jail?

You presume the people in academia are intellectuals. I don't. I've been there, met them, spoken to them. A lot of them are banal bureaucrats who got through classes by rote memorization and stay in university because they could never succeed in the outside world and because they can't be fired. You're also ignoring how ideological many are, and their own willingness to ignore logic, evidence and information in pursuit of their noble ideals. You think the Conservative leadership - all of whom are university graduates, btw, should bow before a bunch of tenured left wing professors and meekly accept their pronouncements?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 11, 2017, 03:01:22 pm
The trump campaign attempted to collude with Russia to win the election.   A serious no-no. 
. http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/10/why-donald-trump-jr-s-meeting-with-a-russian-lawyer-matters.html

You realize that even if there is incontrovertible evidence, freely admitted by Donald Trump himself, that he and his entire campaign colluded with the Russians, arranged for the hacking, took money from them, and promised Russia things if they got elected, 95% of Trump supporters would just shrug it off without a second thought, right?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 11, 2017, 03:16:02 pm
You presume the people in academia are intellectuals.

You seem to presume intellectual = intelligent.  I don't.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 11, 2017, 03:17:08 pm
  95% of Trump supporters would just shrug it off without a second thought, right?

At some point, the brutal refrain of negative news will chip away at their psyches, I firmly believe.  Especially, this will happen if the impact of the whole clown show makes it impossible to achieve his promises, which are impossible anyway. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 12, 2017, 11:17:17 am
At some point, the brutal refrain of negative news will chip away at their psyches, I firmly believe.  Especially, this will happen if the impact of the whole clown show makes it impossible to achieve his promises, which are impossible anyway.
Actually if anything his inability to achieve is promises are actually HELPING him.

Trump for example promised to replace Obamacare. But many Trump supporters depend on its coverage. So the longer he goes without replacing Obamacare the better off he'll be.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 15, 2017, 09:07:28 pm
Sigh

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4027315/donald-trump-begs-theresa-may-to-fix-a-warm-welcome-for-his-state-visit-and-says-he-wont-fix-a-date-for-it-until-he-knows-hes-going-to-get-a-better-reception/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on July 19, 2017, 07:43:29 pm
Trump is suddenly a fan of NAFTA:

http://globalnews.ca/news/3605878/trump-asked-canada-to-drop-duties-on-internet-imports-under-nafta-canadians-should-cheer-say-experts/?utm_source=Article&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 21, 2017, 09:19:57 am
Trump is suddenly a fan of NAFTA:

Well of course. He was never going to tear it up. All along this has been just a negotiating tactic. It's from Business For Dummies. "I'm gonna tear it up. It's a bad bad deal. I'm tearing it up. We got schlonged real bad on this deal. We gotta get rid of this. Such a bad deal. You wouldn't believe it, it's so bad.  ....   well, I might not tear it up, but we need changes or I'm tearing it up."


As for the contents of the link, though, I wholeheartedly agree.  The Canadian government thinks free trade is great for Canadian companies, but not for Canadian citizens.  The $20 "de minimis" threshold is the chintziest in the entire world.  This has been pointed out numerous times to the government, and the government has no interest in changing it, either because they like collecting taxes or because they're trying to protect Canadian brick-and-mortar retailers.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 21, 2017, 09:23:01 am
Meanwhile, as Robert Mueller requests information from Deutsche Bank, Trump is asking people about his powers of pardon. Can he pardon his family? Can he pardon himself? This is allegedly what he's asking.

Deutsche Bank is notorious for laundering money from Russia, coincidentally.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 21, 2017, 09:40:41 am
Don't like to comment so much on these clowns but the NYT interview seems to have been unplanned, and now another lead lawyer has quit.

I read that he described the WH as 'unbelievable' in how they run things.  I doubt whatever they did is as bad as the response, ie. Obstruction of Justice
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 21, 2017, 10:32:27 pm
Jeff Sessions has been found to have lied under oath about meeting with Russians....

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/07/21/mueller-expands-inquiry-into-trump-business-transactions/RunU3sCKgzkElhE7kL6iUP/story.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on July 22, 2017, 12:51:12 am
At this point, I think even Trump is surprised he's not impeached.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on July 22, 2017, 10:53:05 am
Trump announced today that he has absolute power to pardon anyone incriminated in Mueller's investigation, including himself.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 22, 2017, 03:36:53 pm
Trump announced today that he has absolute power to pardon anyone incriminated in Mueller's investigation, including himself.

Will the Republicans in Congress bend over and take a dictatorship, or will they do something about it?

Quote
But frankly, the history isn’t the point. The basic problem with self-pardon is that it would make a mockery of the very idea that the U.S. operates under the rule of law. A president who could self-pardon could violate literally any federal law with impunity, knowing that the only risk was removal from office by impeachment.

We have a name for an elected leader who is outside the law: dictator. And dictatorship is fundamentally inconsistent with the republic established by the Constitution. In fact, it’s a little difficult to think of any single idea that would more grossly violate the rule of law than a president free to break any and every law and then wave a get-out-of-jail-free card.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-07-21/trump-s-pardoning-himself-would-trash-constitution

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 22, 2017, 05:58:03 pm
Reading World Order by Kissenger now and it's making me think that Trump came around just in time for us to prevent another one later.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 23, 2017, 11:05:35 am
Will the Republicans in Congress bend over and take a dictatorship, or will they do something about it?

I tend to agree with the commentator on MSNBC the other night. Republican leaders have strapped themselves to the mast of the SS Trump, and they won't be doing anything until the water is over their heads. The vast majority of their base still worships him, so principles be damned. They are going wherever he takes the ship.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 23, 2017, 11:10:33 am
If firing Muller doesn't turn them then they are in trouble.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 24, 2017, 07:44:41 pm
Reading World Order by Kissenger now and it's making me think that Trump came around just in time for us to prevent another one later.

Prevent another what later?  Another "world order"?  Another covfefe?

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 24, 2017, 08:17:39 pm
Another covfefe
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 24, 2017, 08:25:24 pm
Make mine a double.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 26, 2017, 12:28:37 am
So the Boy Scouts of America invited the POTUS to speak at their once-per-four-years jamboree, as is their tradition.

And Trump showed up and turned it into a Trump Youth rally. 

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 26, 2017, 06:47:15 am
Last night's speech was also horrifying.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 26, 2017, 10:42:42 am
And now they've actually managed to get enough votes to open up debate on health care in the senate (although it required a return by John McCain post-cancer surgery and a tie-breaking vote by Pence in order to squeak through.) However, things are a mess for the republicans (as certain votes require a 60 vote majority to proceed, and its doubtful that they can muster that.)

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-sets-sights-skinny-repeal-obamacare-tuesday-s-voting-n786296

A few notes:

- this really illustrates how hypocritical the republicans many republicans are... some will complain about the way Trump and the republicans are acting (such as how the way the bill was crafted in secret), but when called upon, most will ignore their claimed principles and follow directions.

- Trump has really been pushing for this, even making threats to republican senators who might have voted against the bill

I really hope the republicans manage to actually repeal Obamacare. Yes, it will be horrible. Yes, millions will be left uninsured (and some may die). But, so many Republican supporters are sticking by Trump because they can't imagine him doing anything bad... having their health insurance disappear might just be a wake up call that "voting has consequences".

Oh, and speaking of insurance, there are hints that Trump doesn't even understand the difference between health insurance and life insurance, as he was making claims that young people could get insured for $12/year.

http://fortune.com/2017/07/20/donald-trump-health-insurance-comments/


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 26, 2017, 11:31:26 am
So the Boy Scouts of America invited the POTUS to speak at their once-per-four-years jamboree, as is their tradition.

And Trump showed up and turned it into a Trump Youth rally. 

 -k

The lack of judgement, maturity and class of this individual continues to surprise me, though nothing he does should surprise me. I can't imagine George Bush making anything like this sort of speech to boy scouts, and I thought he was an idiot!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 26, 2017, 11:34:04 am
Last night's speech was also horrifying.

What's scarier is the rumor he wants to replace Sessions with that lick-spittle sycophant Rudy Giuliani, so he can then fire Rosenstein and then Mueller.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on July 26, 2017, 12:19:09 pm
So the Boy Scouts of America invited the POTUS to speak at their once-per-four-years jamboree, as is their tradition.

And Trump showed up and turned it into a Trump Youth rally. 

 -k
I'm surprised he hasn't come up with a salute that people are supposed to give to him at these rallies yet.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 27, 2017, 01:37:38 pm
Jeff Sessions has been found to have lied under oath about meeting with Russians....
Ironically, Trump has been attacking Sessions for recusing himself from the Russian investigation, and for not prosecuting Hillary Clinton (which, should it be noted, Trump said after the election he had no interest in seeing her jailed.)

There are so many reasons why Sessions should not be attorney general... his past history of racism, his desire to crack down harder on drug laws, etc. Yet he was one of Trump's earliest big-name supporters. And now Trump is attacking him. Just goes to show how much loyalty is worth.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/26/politics/trump-sessions-tweet/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 27, 2017, 09:21:46 pm
and for not prosecuting Hillary Clinton (which, should it be noted, Trump said after the election he had no interest in seeing her jailed.)

you didn't have to be The Amazing Kreskin to anticipate that Trump would start ranting about Hillary again when he needed to distract people from his own troubles.  And the way things are headed, Trump's troubles are just getting worse.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 27, 2017, 09:33:02 pm
And then they hired this guy from Futurama as comms director:
 (https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/en.futurama/images/8/8b/ThatGuy.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090909220403)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 27, 2017, 09:33:38 pm
I did a quick google on Ken Starr regarding another thread, and saw that Starr penned a blistering op-ed about Trump's treatment of Jeff Sessions.  I assume this came about because Starr heard his name mentioned as a potential replacement for Sessions, and wanted to nip that **** in the bud.

Quote
The attorney general is not — and cannot be — the president’s “hockey goalie,” as new White House Communications Director Anthony Scaramucci described Sessions’s job. In fact, the president isn’t even his client. To the contrary, the attorney general’s client is ultimately “We the People,” and his fidelity has to be not to the president but to the Constitution and other laws of the United States. Indeed, the attorney general’s job, at times, is to tell the president “no” because of the supervening demands of the law. When it comes to dealing with the nation’s top legal officer, you will do well to check your Twitter weapons at the Oval Office door.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/kenneth-starr-mr-president-please-cut-it-out/2017/07/26/b9af0c78-723e-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html?utm_term=.3f7d04f79af1


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 27, 2017, 09:44:10 pm
No, this **** show is the worst.  The Senators now have to stay up all night debating a pack of stupidity so they can safe face about their devotion to a lie that breaks Trump's "better healthcare" promise.

This kind of thing leads to coups in other countries.  Merely dysfunctional would be an improvement.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 28, 2017, 07:52:48 am
Ok, skinny repeal has died now.  It seems that the Republican healthcare plans are now all dead and they are moving forward on tax reform.

Trump will not own this, of course, and it seems to me that McCain must have been somewhat happy to stick it to him, on some level.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 28, 2017, 09:35:57 am
"Who knew healthcare was so complicated?"


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 28, 2017, 09:37:09 am
Ok, skinny repeal has died now.  It seems that the Republican healthcare plans are now all dead and they are moving forward on tax reform.
But... but... during the election trump said he had a great health care plan! It must be true because Trump would never lie!

Maybe Trump is keeping it secret and will spring it on us later.
Quote
Trump will not own this, of course, and it seems to me that McCain must have been somewhat happy to stick it to him, on some level.
Well, as I said before... it is probably beneficial for Trump, since even many of his supporters rely on Obamacare.

And have to say, McCain came through. Question is whether he voted down the bill because it was a bad bill or just to stick it to Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 28, 2017, 09:40:51 am
Trump marketed himself as the Big Deal guy. The guy who makes deals. Bigly bigly deals. Yuge deals. High energy deals. He's the guy who makes deals! He says "deal" ten times every interview. Deals. Deals. He's all about deals. He (or his ghost writer, at least) wrote "The Art Of The Deal".  He's Mr Deal.

But once again he couldn't seal the deal.

SAD!

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 28, 2017, 09:41:37 am
I did a quick google on Ken Starr regarding another thread, and saw that Starr penned a blistering op-ed about Trump's treatment of Jeff Sessions.  I assume this came about because Starr heard his name mentioned as a potential replacement for Sessions, and wanted to nip that **** in the bud.
I can't understand why Starr wouldn't just jump at the chance to work for the Trump admin. Imagine how exciting it would be, working for a president that demands complete loyalty but will throw you under a bus when it suits him! Imagine the thrill of finding out that the president has made major policy decisions via twitter without consulting you!

It would be like riding a giant roller coaster, but instead of a nice gentle stop at the end you get thrown into a pile of cow dung!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 28, 2017, 09:42:52 am
Hard to say.  By the end, the bill they had would have had to go back to Congress anyway.

They bonked the process up so badly it's hard to believe that these are experiences legislators.

The Republicans are now a party torn up from within.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 28, 2017, 09:44:19 am
Trump marketed himself as the Big Deal guy. The guy who makes deals. Bigly bigly deals. Yuge deals. High energy deals. He's the guy who makes deals! He says "deal" ten times every interview. Deals. Deals. He's all about deals. He (or his ghost writer, at least) wrote "The Art Of The Deal".  He's Mr Deal.

But once again he couldn't seal the deal.
I guess its a little different making a deal when you don't have a team of lawyers who can effectively beat up other, less wealthy people.

Quote
SAD!
This is to inform you that the term 'sad' has been trademarked by Donald J. Drumph industries, and you now owe royalties.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 28, 2017, 09:46:24 am
My post was in response to the question on McCain's motivation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 28, 2017, 09:49:38 am
Hard to say.  By the end, the bill they had would have had to go back to Congress anyway.

They bonked the process up so badly it's hard to believe that these are experiences legislators.

The Republicans are now a party torn up from within.
Well, for the better part of the past 8 years, the only thing that the republicans had to run on was "Oppose Obama!". When you build your politics around obstructionism its hard to bring anything useful to the table. And now that Obama (their sole focus) is gone, the have nothing left to do but wander aimlessly.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 28, 2017, 10:29:06 am
538 has approval pegged at 38.5% which is down .5%

Doesn't sound like much, but it was at 39.5% for a little while, so this may signal erosion of base support.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 28, 2017, 11:30:01 am
538 has approval pegged at 38.5% which is down .5%
At least he's still popular in Russia. You know, the people who helped get him elected.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/26/u-s-image-suffers-as-publics-around-world-question-trumps-leadership/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 28, 2017, 12:11:54 pm
538 has approval pegged at 38.5% which is down .5%

Doesn't sound like much, but it was at 39.5% for a little while, so this may signal erosion of base support.

That's within the margin of error...  so no change.  Don't get excited over a single percent, unless it's a clear trend over time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on July 28, 2017, 02:08:37 pm
That's within the margin of error...  so no change.  Don't get excited over a single percent, unless it's a clear trend over time.

It's an agregator, so it doesn't really work the same way.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 28, 2017, 02:22:36 pm
Hard to say.  By the end, the bill they had would have had to go back to Congress anyway.

They bonked the process up so badly it's hard to believe that these are experiences legislators.

First, they were trying to do the impossible; live up to Trump's idiotic promise for way better health care at a fraction of the price. Second, the advent of the Tea Party put pressure on all Republicans to be as uncompromising as possible with the enemy (Democrats). Any senator/congressman who seemed likely to be congenial or moderate wound up facing well-funded primary challenges from the far right. Further, since most Republican congressmen are in gerrymandered districts a primary challenge is really their only fear of losing their seats. So they all began to embrace the 'hard line' attitude to protect themselves from the Tea party. Now everyone is afraid to compromise. Working with the Democrats is virtually unthinkable. It wouldn't be hard to craft a better national health care plan than Obamacare, but that would require compromise with the Democrats to fix some of the problems. That's now anathema to the Republicans. With such a small majority that means they have to have virtual unanimity on anything to get it through, and that's much harder to achieve in the senate since there isn't any gerrymandering to allow senators to ignore the will of the people with impunity.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 28, 2017, 02:44:24 pm
That's within the margin of error...  so no change.  Don't get excited over a single percent, unless it's a clear trend over time.

Two points:

It was only 1/2 of one percent.

I think that it's the third poll showing a drop.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 28, 2017, 04:07:27 pm
Priebus fired.  **** show goes on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 28, 2017, 06:12:08 pm
It's an agregator, so it doesn't really work the same way.

I realize that...   but its within the margin of error of any poll....  so seeing such a small change is, essentially, meaningless. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 31, 2017, 11:33:25 am
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo

Rasmussen now has trump under 40% so we're hitting Gerald Ford territory.  The full impact of last week's episode - the healthcare failure, firing Preibus, hiring The Mooch, the Trans ban - will only start to be felt now.

Paradoxically, the only Trump fans in my newsfeed seem to be most pissed off at the Trans ban. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 31, 2017, 02:06:51 pm
https://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/339751/after-10-days-the-mooch-is-out-at-white-house-comms-director/

And now.... The Mooch is gone...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 31, 2017, 06:58:54 pm


"I gotta be honest, I didn't know him that well when I hired him, I just had a gut feeling, you know? I mean, he wears nice suits, very nice suits. Good haircut, he has those dark aviator sunglasses, I like those a lot.  Fit, good looking, high-energy guy. I like guys like that. High energy, I worked with guys like that in the '80s, we got a lot done in the '80s, we did a lot of deals. Good looking wife, looks a bit like Ivanka, very attractive.  So I figured he'd be a good fit. Then he comes in and takes charge. Gets rid of Spicer, gets rid of Rince, I like that, very take charge, very high energy, lots of action.  And he did the interview with the New Yorker, talked about a lot of things, very candid, very good words, lots of good words. Very good interview. And he divorced his wife and missed the birth of his baby so that he could come be with me in Washington. That's the kind of dedication I need. That's my kind of guy.  But then I heard he gave an interview where he told people I sink 3 foot putts.  And I said what?  What is going on? And I called him up, and I said Tony! What is going on? And he said 3 foot putts. And I said No No No No No. 3 foot putts? Are you freaking kidding me, Tony? Anybody can sink 3 foot putts, Tony. You make it sound like I'm some average schmoe at the mini-golf course. I can't have you going around saying stuff like that about me. I can't have that. Tony... you're fired."

 -Trump comments on the firing of The Mooch. As I imagine it, at least. That's how it played out in my head.  I'm sure the official version is a little different, but I'm sure the truth is closer to what I wrote.




 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 01, 2017, 11:17:14 am
Well, for the better part of the past 8 years, the only thing that the republicans had to run on was "Oppose Obama!". When you build your politics around obstructionism its hard to bring anything useful to the table. And now that Obama (their sole focus) is gone, the have nothing left to do but wander aimlessly.
It looks like one republican senator might agree with me...


Jeff Flake (from: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/31/my-party-is-in-denial-about-donald-trump-215442)
...we conservatives mocked Barack Obama’s failure to deliver on his pledge to change the tone in Washington even as we worked to assist with that failure. It was we conservatives who, upon Obama’s election, stated that our No. 1 priority was not advancing a conservative policy agenda but making Obama a one-term president...It was we conservatives who were largely silent when the most egregious and sustained attacks on Obama’s legitimacy were leveled by marginal figures who would later be embraced and legitimized by far too many of us. It was we conservatives who rightly and robustly asserted our constitutional prerogatives as a co-equal branch of government when a Democrat was in the White House but who, despite solemn vows to do the same in the event of a Trump presidency, have maintained an unnerving silence as instability has ensued. To carry on in the spring of 2017 as if what was happening was anything approaching normalcy required a determined suspension of critical faculties.

It should be pointed out... right now, Flake's words just seem be be empty rhetoric. He is paying lip service when he criticizes Republican's obstructionism, but it should be pointed out that he has made little attempt to actually take action. He seemed to have no problem having Gorsuch confirmed as supreme court nominee (even though his nomination came about as a result of the republican tactics that he is condemning.) And more recently he voted for the Republican health care plan. (Had he truly been troubled by Republican tactics, he should have stood with McCain and voted it down, giving a message to Republican leadership "I cannot support partisan backroom deals".)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 02, 2017, 01:32:52 pm
I realize that...   but its within the margin of error of any poll....  so seeing such a small change is, essentially, meaningless.
That's not the way statistics work. If you have repeated independent samples from several pollsters showing the same thing, it's far more likely that's correct. Margin of error only pertains to any given poll by itself, not between polls in aggregate.

Essentially by aggregating the polls, you're putting together multiple independent samples to create a larger sample. The MoE for the aggregate would be on a much larger sample size and therefore be a lot smaller.

In other words, if a bunch of polls show the same thing, they're probably right.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 02, 2017, 01:34:04 pm
From my Uni days, there is an issue with averaging polls too.  But I think it's ok here.  538 weights them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 03, 2017, 06:47:46 am
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo

The 538 has Trump at 37% approval now, with the latest poll showing 35%.

My theory is that his rockbed supporters only listen to each other, and that as some of them defect they will convince others.  My target approval for rock bottom is 26%, which is the percentage of Americans who believe the sun orbits the earth.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 03, 2017, 09:06:23 am
Susan Huckabee-Sanders admitted that it was totally untrue that Trump received phone calls from the Boy Scouts president congratulating him on his speech or from the president of Mexico congratulating him for security of the border.

But she insists he wasn't lying.  I am not sure how she can square that circle, but she's Mike Huckabee's little girl so she has no doubt been raised from infancy to accept contradictions without complaint.

Yep.

Also, her eyes don't point the same direction. One eye points this way, the other one points that way.



Oh by the way it's also been confirmed by Huckabee that Trump did indeed dictate Trump Jr's statement regarding the discussions with the Russians.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 03, 2017, 12:34:03 pm
Just a reminder - Trump is not your boy or mine.  I'll let the boy scout President slide, because, well, it's technically correct.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 03, 2017, 02:28:37 pm
Susan Huckabee-Sanders admitted that it was totally untrue that Trump received phone calls from the Boy Scouts president congratulating him on his speech or from the president of Mexico congratulating him for security of the border.
Speaking of the border...

Another leaked phone conversation between Trump and the Mexican president features Trump begging the mexican president not to say "Mexico won't pay for the wall".

From: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-mexican-president-stop-pay-wall/story?id=49009884
Pena Nieto said. “My position has been and will continue to be very firm saying that Mexico cannot pay for that wall." Trump responded,  “But you cannot say that to the press. The press is going to go with that and I cannot live with that. You cannot say that to the press because I cannot negotiate under those circumstances.” He went on, “But the fact is we are both in a little bit of a political bind because I have to have Mexico pay for the wall – I have to.” He suggested that both he and Pena Nieto publicly say they're still determining who will pay for the wall. He then threatened, "If you are going to say that Mexico is not going to pay for the wall, then I do not want to meet with you guys anymore because I cannot live with that."

Trump, master deal negotiator.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 03, 2017, 03:32:54 pm
Just a reminder - Trump is not your boy or mine.  I'll let the boy scout President slide, because, well, it's technically correct.

I have no idea what this is about or means...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 03, 2017, 03:49:23 pm
I have no idea what this is about or means...

I already edited the post in question.  No harm, no foul - just a friendly warning.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 04, 2017, 05:48:27 pm
Susan Huckabee-Sanders
 -k
Sarah Huckabee-Sanders
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 04, 2017, 06:56:14 pm
Sarah Huckabee-Sanders

Susan, Sarah, whatever. Doesn't matter. In a few months she'll be polishing up her resume.  Perhaps she can go work for the "local milk people" that Trump was talking about.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 04, 2017, 09:17:51 pm
One of my few rules - don't insult the public figures by changing their names. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 04, 2017, 09:23:00 pm
Pena Nieto said. “My position has been and will continue to be very firm saying that Mexico cannot pay for that wall." Trump responded,  “But you cannot say that to the press. The press is going to go with that and I cannot live with that. You cannot say that to the press because I cannot negotiate under those circumstances.” He went on, “But the fact is we are both in a little bit of a political bind because I have to have Mexico pay for the wall – I have to.” He suggested that both he and Pena Nieto publicly say they're still determining who will pay for the wall. He then threatened, "If you are going to say that Mexico is not going to pay for the wall, then I do not want to meet with you guys anymore because I cannot live with that."

Translation: "Listen, Pedro, I said a lot of very stupid things during the campaign, but play along with me so that I don't look dumb."

The idea that Mr Pena-Nieto owes Trump any favors after all the crap Trump said about Mexicans during the past 2 years is laughable. So Trump-like.

Trump, master deal negotiator.


"I'm gonna tear up NAFTA! ...   ...  well, maybe I won't tear it up if you guys make bigly bigly concessions."

The Trumpcare negotiations were especially masterful. I liked the part where he said he'd punish Alaska if Lisa Murkowski voted against the bill in the senate.  Murkowski just won reelection for 6 more years.  The election before, the Tea Party Republicans "primaried" Murkowski and she still won the senate seat... as a write-in candidate. That's crazy!  Trump will be in jail before Murkowski has to run for election again. I doubt she's scared of him.  Trump mocked Obama for not being able to "make bigly bigly deals" to get bills through the House of Representatives and the Senate.  Trump has a majority in both and he can't get bigly bigly deals done either.  At least Obama got his healthcare bill through the House and the Senate when the Democrats had both.

And now these new transcripts... hanging up on the PM of Australia, pleading with the President of Mexico to play along... threatening to stop taking his calls if he doesn't play along... it's SAD and PATHETIC. And also hilarious.

I assume he also has other tremendous high-energy negotiating tools in his arsenal, like threatening to block people on Twitter or Unfriend them on Facebook.

The one negotiating tool he has that we know works is to threaten to declare bankruptcy to strong-arm contractors into accepting partial payment for work they did on his shitty projects. Except everybody knows the US isn't going to declare bankruptcy to welsh on its debts so that's not going to be a super-strong tactic in the international arena.

But the real comedy from the leaked transcripts was his comments to Malcolm Turnbull that the refugees are bad people and they're in prison and that they're not going to get jobs and work for the "local milk people".  Senile.

This guy is such a joke. 


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 05, 2017, 05:23:10 pm
I already edited the post in question.  No harm, no foul - just a friendly warning.

How can I be warned when I have no idea what you edited or what you didn't like?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 05, 2017, 05:25:44 pm
One of my few rules - don't insult the public figures by changing their names.

Why? I ask this because I believe that that other site started to go wrong when the moderation focused not so much on how members treated each other, but to a fanatical degree, how members referred to extraneous people like politicians, heads of the RCMP, tribal leaders, union leaders, Quebec, natives, foreigners, etc.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 05, 2017, 09:15:40 pm
How can I be warned when I have no idea what you edited or what you didn't like?

Warning is the wrong - word.  I should have said reminder.

There are 3 rules:

use proper names
don't insult eachother
don't do anything illegal. 

I wasn't meaning to bring down the hammer - I just want to keep it civil.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 08, 2017, 11:03:47 am
One of my few rules - don't insult the public figures by changing their names.
You have rules?

This is bullshit.  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 08, 2017, 12:52:02 pm
You have rules?

This is bullshit.  ;D

Sorry
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 08, 2017, 01:42:56 pm
One of my few rules - don't insult the public figures by changing their names.
Does that include using the president's historical name Drumph? After all, he himself said people should be proud of their heritage.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 08, 2017, 01:52:22 pm
Does that include using the president's historical name Drumph? After all, he himself said people should be proud of their heritage.

I'd prefer not, only because he doesn't call himself that.  Though, you are right, it is a historical family name. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 08, 2017, 02:02:24 pm
I already edited the post in question.  No harm, no foul - just a friendly warning.

I think this was me, but because the post is gone I have no idea what I said that was moderated.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 08, 2017, 04:45:39 pm
I think this was me, but because the post is gone I have no idea what I said that was moderated.

I didn't delete any posts from this thread - so I don't think it was you.  There were a few choice words replaced with the appropriate name of the person.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 09, 2017, 01:13:43 pm
Quote
Does that include using the president's historical name Drumph? After all, he himself said people should be proud of their heritage.
I'd prefer not, only because he doesn't call himself that.  Though, you are right, it is a historical family name.
Yeah but its not just that its a historical family name... its that Donald himself has actually attacked people for changing their names.

If Trump is criticizing people for not using their historical names, then isn't it morally right to expect some consistency and refer to Trump by his family's historical name?

If Jon Stewart is so above it all & legit, why did he change his name from Jonathan Leibowitz? He should be proud of his heritage!
- Donald J Trump, aka Drumph

http://www.thedailybeast.com/revisiting-donald-trumps-anti-semitic-attacks-against-jon-stewart
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 09, 2017, 01:39:55 pm
It's definitely a grey area.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 10, 2017, 03:22:10 pm
I kinda don't like the way Trump keeps playing tit for tat with Kim. It seems like he is simply falling into the nut bar blender like children in a sand box, although with much more dangerous tools in hand.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 10, 2017, 10:55:18 pm
I'd prefer not, only because he doesn't call himself that.  Though, you are right, it is a historical family name.
Yeah but its not just that its a historical family name... its that Donald himself has actually attacked people for changing their names.

If Trump is criticizing people for not using their historical names, then isn't it morally right to expect some consistency and refer to Trump by his family's historical name?

If Jon Stewart is so above it all & legit, why did he change his name from Jonathan Leibowitz? He should be proud of his heritage!
- Donald J Trump, aka Drumph

http://www.thedailybeast.com/revisiting-donald-trumps-anti-semitic-attacks-against-jon-stewart

This one always annoyed me. Trump was never named Drumpf, nor was his father or grandfather or great-grandfather... in fact the "Drumpf" surname was allegedly dropped sometime in the 1600s.  Suggesting that the guy ought to go by a surname his family dropped hundreds of years ago is asinine. Quite different from the show-biz practice of using a stage-name, as Jonathan Stuart Leibowitz (and many others) do.

The reason it annoys me is that many of us from non-English backgrounds have different surnames from what our ancestors did. Dad's Swedish grandparents adopted an Anglicized spelling of their name when they arrived in the New World. Mom's family name is 6 letters shorter than what her her Eastern European ancestors went by. I feel like if you're mocking Trump because his ancestors changed the family name in the 1600s, you're also mocking a lot of people whose families changed their names a lot more recently.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 10, 2017, 10:56:24 pm
One of my few rules - don't insult the public figures by changing their names.

In my defense, I honestly thought her name was Susan.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 10, 2017, 11:00:17 pm
Once upon a time Trump predicted that Obama would start dropping bombs in the Middle East to distract from falling poll numbers.

That's projection. That's Trump telling everybody how he thinks. He thought Obama would do that because that's what Trump would do.

And so it shouldn't be surprising that Trump has climbed into the sandbox to squabble with fellow fat-kid snowflake Kim Jong Un.

The senile motherfucker is going to start a nuclear war to distract everybody from the Russia probe.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 11, 2017, 12:11:46 am
This one always annoyed me. Trump was never named Drumpf, nor was his father or grandfather or great-grandfather... in fact the "Drumpf" surname was allegedly dropped sometime in the 1600s.  Suggesting that the guy ought to go by a surname his family dropped hundreds of years ago is asinine. Quite different from the show-biz practice of using a stage-name, as Jonathan Stuart Leibowitz (and many others) do.
First of all, while there are some reports that the Drumpf name was changed in the 1600s, there is fairly strong evidence that the change was much more recent... by his Grandfather, so while Trump may not have used the name 'Drumph', the name 'Trump' may not be that old.

http://www.snopes.com/donald-drumpf/

Secondly, the name 'Stewart' isn't just a stage name; Jon Stewart legally changed it, and while it may have benefited his career, it appears the main reason was due to a poor relationship with his father.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Stewart#Early_life

So, there are legal and moral reasons to refer to Jon as 'Stewart'. Yet Trump thought it was fair game to attempt to refer to him by a name that Stewart isn't known by legally, and who doesn't want to be referred to for personal reasons..
Quote
The reason it annoys me is that many of us from non-English backgrounds have different surnames from what our ancestors did. Dad's Swedish grandparents adopted an Anglicized spelling of their name when they arrived in the New World. Mom's family name is 6 letters shorter than what her her Eastern European ancestors went by. I feel like if you're mocking Trump because his ancestors changed the family name in the 1600s, you're also mocking a lot of people whose families changed their names a lot more recently.
No, I'm mocking Trump for being a hypocrite. If he had actually said "It made sense for Jon Stewart to change his name", I probably wouldn't be be talking about Drumph. Heck, even if he had remained silent about Stewart's name change I would have had less to criticize him for. Its the fact that he attacked others for changing their name (for reasons that were just as valid as his ancestors changing their name from Drumph to Trump) that I am criticizing him.
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 11, 2017, 01:13:27 pm
I think this was me, but because the post is gone I have no idea what I said that was moderated.
It was me for sure. I used a different word for Huckabee.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 11, 2017, 02:57:18 pm
Several people did things.  No harm no foul.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 13, 2017, 08:50:11 pm
Now we have a similar group of right wing knucklehead Trump supporters raoming the streets of Seattle creating a similar environment as they did in VA. I guess it's "Alt the Governments Men"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 14, 2017, 05:58:33 am
 Other stupidity from last week:

Exacerbating the NK nuclear threat
Military option for Venezuela
Fighting with the Senate Majority leader of his own party
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 14, 2017, 03:45:57 pm
Someone at the White House must have held Trump's feet to the fire to convince him to finally make a proper statement as to what occurred in Chancellorsville. Trump tried to redeem himself today by finally giving a statement where he did actually condemn racists, white supremacists, neo-nazis, and the like. Of course the statement fell flat, partly because he prefixed such an important issue with a ridiculous statement about the economy, but mostly because he took so long to address the real issues. A question in my mind is Trump really that ignorant and arrogant with regard to his original statement, or was there a method to his madness? I suspect the latter. He knows the people he finally identified and condemned today are a big chunk of his supporters. By not singling them out at the outset, he can deliver this totally scripted teleprompter chatter today with a "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" to them. Who the hell would need a teleprompter to deliver such statement if they were in any way sincere? I hope this disgrace drives his polls further into the ditch where they belong.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 14, 2017, 09:27:54 pm
He needed a teleprompter for it to be coherent English. Today's speech might actually save him more votes than he stands to keep by defending these morons.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 14, 2017, 11:51:52 pm
It seems to me there are a lot of moroms who voted for him who need to look up the word autocray. Or perhaps they already have and don't give a f**k because it suits their racist agenda. Maybe we should be thinking about a wall.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 15, 2017, 12:02:07 pm
Someone at the White House must have held Trump's feet to the fire to convince him to finally make a proper statement as to what occurred in Chancellorsville. Trump tried to redeem himself today by finally giving a statement where he did actually condemn racists, white supremacists, neo-nazis, and the like. Of course the statement fell flat, partly because he prefixed such an important issue with a ridiculous statement about the economy, but mostly because he took so long to address the real issues.
It should also be pointed out that, while Trump waited days before getting around to say "Nazis are bad, m'kay?"...

- When one of the members of his Manufacturing council resigned in protest of Trump's inaction, he launched a twitter attack within hours

- After his apology, he went on Twitter (again, after only a very short amount of time) to attack the media, calling them "truly bad people" because they criticized his handling of the events (i.e. he gave more condemnation of the media than he initially did over Nazis and KKK members.)

- Retweeted a post from a well-known alt-right racist (Jack Posobiec). Way to let the world know that you're opposed to Racism... by showing how you support people in the alt-right movement.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/346554-trump-attacks-fake-news-media-following-remarks-on-charlottesville
https://www.mediaite.com/online/twitter-goes-nuts-after-trump-retweets-pizzagate-conspiracist-jack-posobiec/

And I thought Kelly was supposed to get a handle on Trump's excesses.

Quote
A question in my mind is Trump really that ignorant and arrogant with regard to his original statement, or was there a method to his madness? I suspect the latter. He knows the people he finally identified and condemned today are a big chunk of his supporters. By not singling them out at the outset, he can deliver this totally scripted teleprompter chatter today with a "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" to them. Who the hell would need a teleprompter to deliver such statement if they were in any way sincere? I hope this disgrace drives his polls further into the ditch where they belong.
I'm sure he recognizes that the neo-nazis and racists are among his strongest supporters (and will probably be the only ones left by the time the next election comes around.) But, its also possible that Trump's inability to condemn racism is because he himself is racist and doesn't see anything wrong with it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 15, 2017, 12:05:11 pm
Military option for Venezuela
Yup. After years of a corrupt Venezuelan government trying to blame problems on the evil United States, Trump gives them exactly what they need... real concrete proof that the U.S. wants to interfere.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 15, 2017, 03:28:36 pm
Trump just issued a statement introducing a proposed infrastructure bill and then took questions from the press. Of course there were next to no questions on the bill, mostly on Charlottesville, and he of course once again succeeded to make a complete and utter ass of himself. He went right back to reiterating his initial remarks of "all sides" which he was so roundly criticized for. He continues to indicate that he is a supporter of White Supremacy, the alt. right, and the neo-nazis. I guess America deserves the idiot they elected.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 15, 2017, 04:01:19 pm
Trump just issued a statement introducing a proposed infrastructure bill and then took questions from the press. Of course there were next to no questions on the bill, mostly on Charlottesville, and he of course once again succeeded to make a complete and utter ass of himself. He went right back to reiterating his initial remarks of "all sides" which he was so roundly criticized for. He continues to indicate that he is a supporter of White Supremacy, the alt. right, and the neo-nazis. I guess America deserves the idiot they elected.
He's gone further than that... he has also made references comparing Robert E. Lee with George Washington.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-charlottesville-george-washington-a7895401.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 15, 2017, 04:51:42 pm
Yes he did and he also confirmed his support for Bannon, (who of course shares his bigotry which he displayed endlessly at Breitbart) and to top it off he re-tweeted an image of a train with his name on it running over a CNN reporter. How sleazy and unpresidential would that be at any time, but especially in the wake of Charottesville!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 15, 2017, 09:49:42 pm
He's gone further than that... he has also made references comparing Robert E. Lee with George Washington.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-charlottesville-george-washington-a7895401.html

He was comparing them because they both owned slaves.  He's saying if Lee statues are taken down now, will Washington & Jefferson statues be taken down in the future because they owned slaves?  Trump is a complete racist idiot but rarely have I seen such BS media spin as this story.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 15, 2017, 10:03:57 pm
Trump just issued a statement introducing a proposed infrastructure bill and then took questions from the press. Of course there were next to no questions on the bill, mostly on Charlottesville, and he of course once again succeeded to make a complete and utter ass of himself. He went right back to reiterating his initial remarks of "all sides" which he was so roundly criticized for.

It's disturbing that Trump's default at the last press conference was to defend some of the non-violent right-wingers at the protest while going after the violent lefties...BUT his facts are correct:  there were many people among both sides that initiated violence in Charlottesville, so both sides are to blame.  That doesn't make antifa as bad as neo-nazis and KKK as a whole obviously, and antifa didn't kill anyone with a car, but violence based on hate was started by both sides, footage is all over Youtube.  Hatred of racist nazi supporters doesn't give other regular citizens like you and I the right to physically attack them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 15, 2017, 10:25:15 pm
It's disturbing that Trump's default at the last press conference was to defend some of the non-violent right-wingers at the protest while going after the violent lefties...BUT his facts are correct:  there were many people among both sides that initiated violence in Charlottesville, so both sides are to blame.  That doesn't make antifa as bad as neo-nazis and KKK as a whole obviously, and antifa didn't kill anyone with a car, but violence based on hate was started by both sides, footage is all over Youtube.  Hatred of racist nazi supporters doesn't give other regular citizens like you and I the right to physically attack them.

Oh FFS, it's hard to believe there are those so blind/ignorant as to try and defend what Trump tries to flog when of course the videos clearly show the neo nazi **** showing up with tiki torches in one hand and AR 15's in the other and then trying to suggest "there was trouble from both sides" Al the knuckledraggers are showing up it seems. Heil Trump!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 15, 2017, 10:46:04 pm
Trump has no values or principles of his own.   Even the white nationalists have values and principles they stand for, as wrong as they might be.  Not Trump.  Trump's only value or principle is doing what benefits Trump.  And as far as his short-sighted thinking is concerned, standing up for these Trump Voters is what he thinks suits his interests the best.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 15, 2017, 11:07:21 pm
Oh FFS, it's hard to believe there are those so blind/ignorant as to try and defend what Trump tries to flog when of course the videos clearly show the neo nazi **** showing up with tiki torches in one hand and AR 15's in the other and then trying to suggest "there was trouble from both sides" Al the knuckledraggers are showing up it seems. Heil Trump!

Are you going to insult me in your self-righteousness, or are you going to actually debate me?  Insults are the same childish tactic Trump uses, so are you no better?

I'm not saying violent members of ANTIFA etc. were as bad as the violent KKK/nazis, I'm saying there were members of both sides that showed up with weapons prepared for or even looking for a fight.  The protest footage on youtube proves my point.  But please be just like Trump even more and don't let facts ruin a good narrative.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 15, 2017, 11:10:34 pm
Trump has no values or principles of his own.   Even the white nationalists have values and principles they stand for, as wrong as they might be.  Not Trump.  Trump's only value or principle is doing what benefits Trump.  And as far as his short-sighted thinking is concerned, standing up for these Trump Voters is what he thinks suits his interests the best.

I think that's giving him too much credit, I think he's standing up for the alt-right Trump voters because he feels they're right to protest the statue coming down.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 15, 2017, 11:23:16 pm
I do think there's an argument that the AntiFa people went there looking for a fight.

On the other hand, I also think that there's an argument that maybe if you go around with torches and white power flags and chant Nazi slogans, you should be expecting a fight.

There's an established legal precedent in the United States, that certain speech in and of itself constitutes a breach of the peace, under the general heading "Fighting Words".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words

In layman's terms: Talk ****, Get Hit.

(https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FTqIEnYB.gif&hash=9d7f1f00278d6d516a1194546cc7876f957dba1a)

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 15, 2017, 11:42:59 pm
Are you going to insult me in your self-righteousness,

Standing up against racism and bigotry is hardly what anyone would/should call "self-righteousness". And no, your videos do not support your claim. Carrying nazi flags and screaming racist slogans and insults is what is mostly what is seen in those videos. And most of those people travelled in from out of state to be there to raise ****. And btw, the Lee statue wasn't about to be destroyed, it was about to be moved from a park to a museum.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 16, 2017, 09:15:55 am
Standing up against racism and bigotry is hardly what anyone would/should call "self-righteousness". And no, your videos do not support your claim. Carrying nazi flags and screaming racist slogans and insults is what is mostly what is seen in those videos. And most of those people travelled in from out of state to be there to raise ****. And btw, the Lee statue wasn't about to be destroyed, it was about to be moved from a park to a museum.

I condemn every single act/utterance of racism and bigotry by those rightwing protestors as well.  But I also condemn every single act of people there who initiated violence, which was mostly done by the racists it seems but also done by certain leftwing protestors.  Violence in self-defense of physical violence being imminently committed against you or possibly in response to a violent threat against you can be justified, and I'm sure there was plenty of that happening here, but there was more than that happening here.  Everything else should be handled by the police in a civil society, & the cops seemed to fail to act to stop much of the violence so they're to blame too.  We've seen in the US what happens when the law is taken into the hands of citizens, it's created a situation where everyone feels they need to own a gun to protect themselves & gun violence rates are sky high.

Here's video of a leftwing protestor attacking and macing an Alex Jones reporter simply for being associated with dumb Alex Jones.  Police do nothing: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=FLPq6Ggv7fU3S1RVffe6p64Q

Oh and defending one thing Trump said doesn't mean I defend other things he says or support him general, because I don't, he's a terrible person.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 16, 2017, 09:26:58 am
There's an established legal precedent in the United States, that certain speech in and of itself constitutes a breach of the peace, under the general heading "Fighting Words".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words

In layman's terms: Talk ****, Get Hit.

If you threaten violence against someone then yeah I can see a self-defense claim on that (which as I said, I'm sure happened at the riots by the KKK/nazis).  But you shouldn't be allowed to attack someone because what they said makes you angry or offended.  Stooping to their level is just going to cause a further breakdown of civility & law and help fuel the riots we saw this week.  Martin Luther King didn't tell his supporters to start punching people.  MLK is possibly the greatest American ever, he should be the model here I think.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on August 16, 2017, 10:03:22 am
I agree with MG.  White Supremacists, Nazis etc and their supporters are scum, but if an anti-fa hit first at any individual, that is on them. Non-violent confrontation is more effective at getting one's point across, imo.  Unfortunately people seem to be inherently violent, regardless of their political leanings.

Trump is still wrong for not coming down unequivocally on the alt-right.  If he had ever indicated a balanced viewpoint, then blame on both sides might possibly fly,  but his record reveals his actual intent in this instance. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 16, 2017, 10:36:12 am
Quote
He's gone further than that... he has also made references comparing Robert E. Lee with George Washington.
He was comparing them because they both owned slaves.  He's saying if Lee statues are taken down now, will Washington & Jefferson statues be taken down in the future because they owned slaves?  Trump is a complete racist idiot but rarely have I seen such BS media spin as this story.
That is a flawed argument.

It is true... Washington was not perfect (especially by today's moral standards). The difference is, Washington acted to improve freedom (even if not everyone benefitted equally). Robert E Lee fought for the confederacy, a group that wanted to continue the enslavement of millions.

The monuments to Washingon were not built to honor his actions regarding slavery, but to honor his actions in establishing the U.S. Monuments to confederate solders were built to honor their actions in a war to continue slavery.

Trump should have understood the difference, instead of invoking some sort of 'slippery slope' argument.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 16, 2017, 10:53:56 am
It's disturbing that Trump's default at the last press conference was to defend some of the non-violent right-wingers at the protest while going after the violent lefties...BUT his facts are correct:  there were many people among both sides that initiated violence in Charlottesville, so both sides are to blame.
The problem with that argument...

If the racists/neo-nazis did not exist, then the antifa would not exist.
If the antifa people did not exist, the racists/neo-nazis would have continued doing what they were doing.

It may not necessarily be wrong to question the activities of some of the left-wing protestors. But because of the reasons that both groups exist (one side expressing hate, the other saying hate is wrong), then ALL of the blame should go to the racists.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 16, 2017, 10:55:26 am
Which I would have come up with it, but still a funny quote:

Good to see Trump is finally acting presidential, in a Jefferson Davis sort of way.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 16, 2017, 07:18:07 pm
The problem with that argument...

If the racists/neo-nazis did not exist, then the antifa would not exist.
If the antifa people did not exist, the racists/neo-nazis would have continued doing what they were doing.

It may not necessarily be wrong to question the activities of some of the left-wing protestors. But because of the reasons that both groups exist (one side expressing hate, the other saying hate is wrong), then ALL of the blame should go to the racists.

Huh??  Obviously antifa is fighting for a more righteous cause, but everyone is responsible for their own actions.  I'm going to go with the law here, which says all violence against another person is wrong (unless it's in self-defense of violence being imminently forced upon you etc).  If I punch someone in the face I can't put ALL blame on the other person because they were spewing offensive or even hateful things at me (unless it's threatening me with violence), I'll still be charged with assault, so what you're saying wouldn't stand up in court.  The state has a monopoly on violence, this is how liberal democracies & civilized societies work.

I'm not trying to defend nazis or Trump, I'm trying to defend anti-violence, like MLK & Gandhi did.

Quote
But because of the reasons that both groups exist (one side expressing hate, the other saying hate is wrong), then ALL of the blame should go to the racists.]

Consider this: when an otherwise well-meaning protester dislikes hateful Nazis/KKK like we all do with so much resentment & anger that the protester violently attacks those KKK racists, isn't that also an expression of hate?  Shouldn't we be better than them? "Others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win, unless you hate them, and then you destroy yourself". - Richard Nixon at his farewell speech.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 16, 2017, 08:07:55 pm


I'm not trying to defend nazis or Trump, I'm trying to defend anti-violence, like MLK & Gandhi did.

That's about as flimsy an argument as Trump is trying to flog. Watch the videos and get back to us as to who you see coming to the party with Nazi flags, tiki torches, and AR 15's, screaming racist slogans. Quit trying to protect these ****!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 16, 2017, 08:34:33 pm
That's about as flimsy an argument as Trump is trying to flog.

Anti-violence is not a good argument?  Do you condemn all of the people who initiated violence on that day?  For Pete's sake I try to do so and I'm labeled a Trump & Nazi defender on all this nonsense here & elsewhere.

Quote
Watch the videos and get back to us as to who you see coming to the party with Nazi flags, tiki torches, and AR 15's, screaming racist slogans. Quit trying to protect these ****!

Show me where I've defended these horrible idiots?  I'm not pro-Nazi i'm anti-violent a$$hats!!  I'm not going to defend a bunch of idiots just because they're "on my side".  This isn't a baseball game, people are getting hurt out there.  Nazis getting clubbed & maced isn't the worst thing I've heard of but momma taught me better too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 16, 2017, 09:51:29 pm
WWII was pretty violent.  Sometimes we hit the Nazis first.  Sometimes, you have to hit the Nazis first.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 16, 2017, 10:44:36 pm
WWII was pretty violent.  Sometimes we hit the Nazis first.  Sometimes, you have to hit the Nazis first.

The Nazis hit first.  The Allies etc were defending themselves against Nazi attack.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 17, 2017, 12:21:25 am
The Nazis hit first.  The Allies etc were defending themselves against Nazi attack.

Overall.  The same is true here.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on August 17, 2017, 12:31:31 am
Oh the false equivalency going on by the Trump supporter here.

As seen on twitter: Sure, the cancer was aggressive. But the chemotherapy was also aggressive. There was aggression on both sides.

As seen on the facebook: We hate Trump as much as you hate Obama. The difference is we hate Trump because he is racist while you hate Obama because you are a racist. 



Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 17, 2017, 05:59:54 pm
Overall.  The same is true here.

If a left-wing protester was being violent in order to defend themselves against a violent attack by these alt-right idiots then yes you're right.  But that wasn't always the case in Charlottesville.  Here's footage of a pretty tame speech by the organizer of the "Unite the Right" protests being attacked/punched by a protester...who chases him down & punches him again before being arrested by the cops (go to 17:30 in the video): 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P54sP0Nlngg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P54sP0Nlngg)

Every single one of us either supports this violence or condemns it as per the law, there's no other option.  Nazis and anti-Nazi protesters should all be following the same basic rule of law, otherwise there will be chaos.  The cops failed to uphold the law on every side during the protests since they were ordered by the mayor to stand down.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 17, 2017, 06:17:41 pm
Oh the false equivalency going on by the Trump supporter here.

I'm not a Trump supporter, he's a terrible person & a racist.

Quote
As seen on twitter: Sure, the cancer was aggressive. But the chemotherapy was also aggressive. There was aggression on both sides.

Violence by vigilantes is not the proper cure for this cancer.  Go ask MLK or Gandhi.  We don't need to stoop to their level.  The chemo here is protest, condemnation, & political action.  We've seen a whole bunch of confederate monuments come down since the protest, that's what we need.

Quote
As seen on the facebook: We hate Trump as much as you hate Obama. The difference is we hate Trump because he is racist while you hate Obama because you are a racist.

True enough, but we need to stop hating people we strongly dislike.  It leads to people lashing out in violence.  We need to stop acting like children and act like civilized adults, which these alt-right morons aren't.  KKK & Nazis are human beings who think, say, and do terrible things, but they're still human beings.  Violent mob justice against them is just like they would do.  Public lynchings brings us to their level.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 17, 2017, 06:21:32 pm
MG has some good thoughts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 17, 2017, 08:47:55 pm
He does.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 17, 2017, 09:03:02 pm
So when the KKK shows up in town armed and ready for a fight, people should be pacifists and take their ****?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 17, 2017, 09:11:49 pm
If a left-wing protester was being violent in order to defend themselves against a violent attack by these alt-right idiots then yes you're right.  But that wasn't always the case in Charlottesville.

My point - that wasn't always the case in WWII either - certainly not at every engagement.  Overall, the Nazis started it, both times.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 17, 2017, 09:13:21 pm
MG has some good thoughts.

Not really - it's more moral equivalency garbage.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on August 17, 2017, 09:45:36 pm
He does.

I think so too.  Even if the nazis are abhorrent, I don't think instigating violence was right.

Fighting back is one thing, but when I started seeing the unprovoked 'punch a nazi' memes I was floored.  Next thing you know the fights escalate and a inevitably someone got killed.

They counter-protesters did their cause a lot of disservice in my opinion and it pisses me off because it gives the nazis justification which they should not have. 

Just listening to Trump make the moral equivalence, for example, makes me sick.  He wouldn't have a leg to stand on otherwise. 

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 17, 2017, 09:51:50 pm
He still didn't have a leg to stand on.  There is no equivalency when there's nazis involved.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 17, 2017, 10:15:32 pm
So when the KKK shows up in town armed and ready for a fight, people should be pacifists and take their ****?

No, they should protest the KKK and defend themselves if they're indeed physically attacked, and if the KKK does illegal crap then the police should arrest & charge them.  I believe this is how it works in a normally functioning civil democracy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 17, 2017, 10:22:28 pm
My point - that wasn't always the case in WWII either - certainly not at every engagement.  Overall, the Nazis started it, both times.

So you support mobs of regular citizens lynching Nazis and KKK in America?  I'm sure that will work out well...MLK so proud!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 17, 2017, 10:26:14 pm
Not really - it's more moral equivalency garbage.

Trying to equate WWII to Charlottesville is garbage.

I'm not saying leftwing protesters are anywhere near as bad as KKK/Nazis, there's no moral equivalency there.  In fact most of those protesters are great citizens.  The Nazis caused most of that crap.  But when you start swinging punches & clubs because you're angry & you hate someone well I think that's bad behaviour no matter Nazi or whomever.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on August 17, 2017, 10:32:04 pm
He still didn't have a leg to stand on.  There is no equivalency when there's nazis involved.

I'm not talking ideology, of course there is no equivalency.

I'm talking in their deluded heads.  I don't know if you spend any time actually reading what the other side has to say, but in their minds, the nazis were reacting, not acting, when one of them murdered an innocent woman.

I'm not saying I agree with them or that they raise a good point, I just wish nobody on the side of sanity had given them that out and only fought back instead of instigating.

That's the part that bothers me in all this. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 17, 2017, 10:39:18 pm
I'm not saying I agree with them or that they raise a good point, I just wish nobody on the side of sanity had given them that out and only fought back instead of instigating.

That's the part that bothers me in all this.

I don't think that's much of an out.  There's no excuse for driving a car into innocent people.  The facts remains that the vast majority of people protesting the white supremacists were non-violent, & the supremacists came out looking like the morons.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 17, 2017, 10:43:42 pm
So you support mobs of regular citizens lynching Nazis and KKK in America?  I'm sure that will work out well...MLK so proud!

Since that's not what happened, I don't feel the need to make a response.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 17, 2017, 10:44:48 pm
But when you start swinging punches & clubs because you're angry & you hate someone well I think that's bad behaviour no matter Nazi or whomever.

I haven't seen much evidence that happened in any kind of a big way.  The hate was exclusively coming from the Nazis.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 17, 2017, 10:47:18 pm
I'm not talking ideology, of course there is no equivalency.

I'm talking in their deluded heads.  I don't know if you spend any time actually reading what the other side has to say, but in their minds, the nazis were reacting, not acting, when one of them murdered an innocent woman.

To be frank, I don't care much for what goes on the mind of white supremacists.  Their thought process is obviously corrupted - otherwise they couldn't hate other human beings for such superficial reasons.

Look, the reality is, there would have been no BLM protest if their hadn't been an armed white supremacist march.  One side started everything.  One side came heavily armed.  One side murdered.  That a few people on the other side may have thrown a few unprovoked punched bothers me less than not at all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on August 17, 2017, 11:07:57 pm
To be frank, I don't care much for what goes on the mind of white supremacists.  Their thought process is obviously corrupted - otherwise they couldn't hate other human beings for such superficial reasons.

Look, the reality is, there would have been no BLM protest if their hadn't been an armed white supremacist march.  One side started everything.  One side came heavily armed.  One side murdered.  That a few people on the other side may have thrown a few unprovoked punched bothers me less than not at all.

I do care how they present their argument because their movement is gaining traction to the point they have a representative in the White House along with a number of his staff.

Their minds may be corrupted, but we have good normal people who see their point (like the few of us on this thread) and that's unfortunate.  To this day the Black Panthers and Malcolm X are maligned where MLK isn't.  Think of the reason why.

When fighting an oppressor it's important to not resort to their tactics.  Think of the Palestine/Israel conflict for example, if the Palestinians would resist using a peaceful solution, they would get a lot further because almost everyone is against Israeli demolishing of Palestinian homes... but the minute they strap a bomb to themselves, no matter how justified their anger at being displaced, people don't want to side with them.

I don't think punching nazis and fighting them on their own level does anything but allow them to justify their distorted sense of reality.  I think real change comes when you're better than that which you claim to hate.

Think Ghandi, Nelson Mandela, MLK.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 17, 2017, 11:41:17 pm
I personally feel that we tried the better way for a long time now - it doesn't seem to have helped to end white supremacist thinking.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 18, 2017, 06:34:36 am
Chomsky has now stated that antifa helps the alt right agenda.

I think that I agree.  If we make this into a fight, we will increase the visibility of the alt right and give them an opportunity to increase their support.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 18, 2017, 07:58:20 am
Are you going to insult me in your self-righteousness, or are you going to actually debate me? 
Debate you about what? Whether it's right to fight violent neo-nazis and white nationalists with violence? Where's the debate to be had?

Think about this, neo-nazis would exist even if antifa didn't. Antifa ONLY exists to fight neo-nazis and skinheads. Period. They wouldn't otherwise exist.

There's no god damned equivalence here. Unless you also sit around condemning the violence "perpetrated" by the Allies stopping Nazi Germany.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 18, 2017, 08:03:23 am
I condemn every single act/utterance of racism and bigotry by those rightwing protestors as well.  But I also condemn every single act of people there who initiated violence, which was mostly done by the racists it seems but also done by certain leftwing protestors. 

So you're like a Mennonite, condemning ALL violence? You're appalled at our troops shooting at ISIS? You're appalled at the death penalty? You're appalled at cops roughing people up when they arrest them? Are you sticking with that all sides narrative for everything? I don't think you are. You're just using it for white supremacists. Time to reflect on your life.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 18, 2017, 08:09:35 am
I think so too.  Even if the nazis are abhorrent, I don't think instigating violence was right.
Antifa exists to fight white supremacist fascists. They're not instigators, they're a reaction to violence. You know, the groups chanting kill the Jews and Nazi slogans. Yet you call Antifa the instigators? You might want to reflect on that a little more.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 18, 2017, 08:14:32 am
For the record, MLK was only successful because the alternative was the Black Panthers. The state had a choice of listening to MLK or pushing people to the more violent option. Further still, Ghandi and MLK were able to passively push back against laws written to enslave them. There is no passive option for fighting white supremacists trying to take power, unless you're so foolish as to actually think they should be given what they want as the oppressed just sit back and "peacefully" do nothing. Bullshit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 18, 2017, 09:47:33 am
Why does Trump support Confederates anyway?   Didn't Robert E Lee lose? I thought Trump only liked winners. War heroes that weren't captured, generals that didn't lose, etc.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 18, 2017, 11:44:08 am
To be frank, I don't care much for what goes on the mind of white supremacists.  Their thought process is obviously corrupted - otherwise they couldn't hate other human beings for such superficial reasons.

Look, the reality is, there would have been no BLM protest if their hadn't been an armed white supremacist march.  One side started everything.  One side came heavily armed.  One side murdered.  That a few people on the other side may have thrown a few unprovoked punched bothers me less than not at all.

I get that, I know you're a good person, we're on the same team but just disagree on some points.  A Nazi or 2 getting decked...I don't lose sleep over that either, but this also isn't a struggle that's going away any time soon & I'm 100% certain it's going to get worse over the next few decades as caucasian populations in the West dwindle due to low birth-rates, baby boomers dying, & immigration to replace them which will be seen as a threat to white nationalists more & more.  So we need to decide the tactics on how we're going to deal with these extremists.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 18, 2017, 11:54:44 am
I personally feel that we tried the better way for a long time now - it doesn't seem to have helped to end white supremacist thinking.

Then you support left-wing extremist terrorism then, that's basically what you're saying.  Civilians causing violence against other civilians for political ends is terrorism.  Every terrorist thinks their cause is righteous.

You don't think white supremicism has shrunk significantly over the last 50-00 years?  It's not gone no, but Barack Obama was elected POTUS twice.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 18, 2017, 12:06:39 pm
Debate you about what? Whether it's right to fight violent neo-nazis and white nationalists with violence? Where's the debate to be had?

Think about this, neo-nazis would exist even if antifa didn't. Antifa ONLY exists to fight neo-nazis and skinheads. Period. They wouldn't otherwise exist.

Think about this, America would exist even if al-Qaeda didn't.  Al-Qaeda ONLY exists to fight America and Israel and sinful Muslim apostates.  Period.  They wouldn't otherwise exist.

Quote
There's no god damned equivalence here. Unless you also sit around condemning the violence "perpetrated" by the Allies stopping Nazi Germany.

Nazis would have invaded & minced up all of Europe if they weren't stopped at gunpoint by the Allies.  There was no non-violence alternative.  I believe there is here, as there was in the 50's/60's with MLK and in British India with Gandhi.  Now if KKK started physically attacking leftwing protesters, I certainly believe in the right for those protesters to defend themselves with violence if necessary.  I'm not a pacifist, I believe in violence only when absolutely necessary where there's no viable alternative.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 18, 2017, 12:11:51 pm
So you're like a Mennonite, condemning ALL violence?

No, I never said that.

Quote
You're appalled at our troops shooting at ISIS? You're appalled at the death penalty? You're appalled at cops roughing people up when they arrest them?

No.  Yes.  No (in a healthy & functioning liberal democracy, the police have the monopoly of violence.  This prevents vigilante justice & anarchy. The most extreme elements of ANTIFA are anarchists).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 18, 2017, 12:17:26 pm
I personally feel that we tried the better way for a long time now - it doesn't seem to have helped to end white supremacist thinking.

People like this will always exist so it is futile to think you will "end" it by any means, including using violence. We must continually work at discrediting it, not validating them by lowering themselves to their level.

Demand to know how they intend to achieve their agenda. Forced expulsions?  Putting people in camps? Forced sterilization to keep non whites from reproducing? Passing discriminatory laws that a SC will trash in a heartbeat? How?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 18, 2017, 12:31:39 pm
Bannon Out...

Looks like Steve Bannon is no longer a part of Trump's team.

There are conflicting stories... There are some claims that he actually resigned a week ago, but then Trump and others were acting as if Bannon was still working for Trump as of earlier this week.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-has-decided-to-remove-steve-bannon-from-white-house/

There are some reports (not yet confirmed) stating that the split was not friendly, and Bannon is planning on going "to war" against the white house.

https://twitter.com/gabrielsherman/status/898594013409882112
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: poochy on August 18, 2017, 12:42:13 pm
This whole 'there's no moral equivalency' thing is hard to understand.  These NAZI's are not the NAZI's of the 1930's and 40's, they haven't actually done much of anything when looked at in context, certainly not as much as ISIS for example, are these modern NAZI's more of a threat than ISIS?  Have they done more damage?  So what exactly does no moral equivalency mean?  Are these NAZI's already as bad as Hitler's NAZI's for wanting to be like them, or thinking they do, or because they could become them when we already have others behaving in much worse ways elsewhere?  It's not normal to compare the behavior of one group to the behaviors of others to say who was worse?   We measure most things against others.  It sounds like a cop out designed to prevent even debating the subject, and maybe that's the way it needs to be, idk.

So this group that i hadnt heard of before this week, antifa, are these the new heroes of equality and democracy?  Are these the vigilantes we need now, enough that we will cheer them on and give them license to fight for us in the future?  Here's a question, how many of them are they same sort of people who will shout down anyone they disagree with at a university?  Or cheer when someone blows up a bus in Israel, or cheer when a cop gets ambushed and murdered?  How many of them are Marxists or Communists?  Or when they carry a certain flag, should we not take them as seriously as the NAZI's carrying their own flags?  Maybe when they do it it's just cute, i mean, what harm could come of that?  Are these really the good people you want to empower with defending your principles?  Are we not allowed to ask those questions simply because the NAZI's were, maybe are and could be so terrible again?  Was it wrong to criticize Stalin for the deaths of millions because he lead Russia while it fought off the NAZI's while they killed millions more?  As I learned this week antifa isn't really new, its as old as the NAZI's, but then they were actually fighting a widespread political movement, not a few morons under sheets or carrying NAZI flags.

At least some of the people from the 'good' side are as extreme as those on the 'bad' side, the problem may end up being that we already give those 'good' people too much leeway to decide where we are supposed going as a society, we may realize at some point that their idea of a perfect world may not be ours. After all the right statues come down what will they target next, and are you going to then tell them that they are going to far, will you have the courage?  If they label you as the next racist or bigot, or even NAZI, what then?  There will not be a level of acceptable progression to them, there will just be the next target.  I dont much care about statues either, knock em all down, lee was a slave owner, he was also a patriot of the wrong 'country', fighting for the wrong things, even by those standards.  So do away with all of it, but im not sure im allowed to mention this as it's in the vein of "moral equivalency", but even the people who fought against slavery, and campaigned against it, were mostly still racists.  So how not racist enough did you have to be to keep your statue?  Idk, but I suppose antifa or some other good folks, like those at BLM will tell us, when they arent cheering on cop killers.

Anyway, NAZI's horrible, KKK horrible, much less horrible people may still not be good people, and they may not be the sort you want to empower to either protect or limit yours or anyone else's freedoms.  I dont have any answers, at least not as sure of them as some of you seem to be of yours, maybe considering the president, this is the only option, but lets not pretend the people who showed up to fight off the NAZI's were just local residents who saw them and reacted, just good people doing a good deed, no, antifa is a far left political organization that sees itself as outside the law, support that if you think you must.

"Antifa believes it is pursuing the opposite of authoritarianism. Many of its activists oppose the very notion of a centralized state. But in the name of protecting the vulnerable, antifascists have granted themselves the authority to decide which Americans may publicly assemble and which may not."

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/the-rise-of-the-violent-left/534192/

But i dont think i can.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: poochy on August 18, 2017, 01:18:52 pm
O, and is this now ok too?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/missouri-senator-trump-assassination-posts-1.4252610

Trump is the enemy, he's the fascist in chief, if she self identifies as a member of antifa will that make it more ok? Or is that not required?  I mean, it's no more legal to accidentally or purposefully murder a NAZI during a protest melee that it is the president so why is she being asked to resign?  Maybe we have to ask antifa what their opinion is since they seem to be making the rules now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 18, 2017, 01:34:00 pm
You equivocating is idiotic. It's real easy.

**** nazis and their supporters and enablers, including Trump.

It's that simple.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 18, 2017, 02:07:23 pm
You equivocating is idiotic. It's real easy.

**** nazis and their supporters and enablers, including Trump.

It's that simple.

Amen
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on August 18, 2017, 03:09:07 pm
I'm not a Trump supporter, he's a terrible person & a racist.


Keep telling yourself that if you care to believe it.

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Violence by vigilantes is not the proper cure for this cancer.  Go ask MLK or Gandhi.  We don't need to stoop to their level.  The chemo here is protest, condemnation, & political action.  We've seen a whole bunch of confederate monuments come down since the protest, that's what we need.


Agreed. Never said vigilantes are the cure.  Just saying it is BS to continue with this false equivalency crap.

Yes, one can make a claim in 1920's Germany that the commies and fascists were just as bad as each other prior to the rise of Hitler.  They probably were roughly equivalent (and look at the results of Stalin and Hitler - clearly equivalent).

But this is 2017. In America. 

The neo-Nazis should be condemned and we all know Hilary would have gotten it right the first time. 

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True enough, but we need to stop hating people we strongly dislike.  It leads to people lashing out in violence.  We need to stop acting like children and act like civilized adults, which these alt-right morons aren't.  KKK & Nazis are human beings who think, say, and do terrible things, but they're still human beings.  Violent mob justice against them is just like they would do.  Public lynchings brings us to their level.


If you put Obama in a room with a random sample of those neo-Nazis I'm pretty sure what the outcome would have been - he'd be hanging from a tree.  Just for being black.

Trump in a room with a random sample of the counter protesters?  He'd get yelled at. They would promise to get more democrats to vote next time.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 18, 2017, 03:52:50 pm
You equivocating is idiotic. It's real easy.

**** nazis and their supporters and enablers, including Trump.

I agree 100%, I don't think anyone disagrees here with that.

Quote
It's that simple.

Obviously it isn't.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 18, 2017, 04:09:30 pm
Agreed. Never said vigilantes are the cure.  Just saying it is BS to continue with this false equivalency crap. 

If you put Obama in a room with a random sample of those neo-Nazis I'm pretty sure what the outcome would have been - he'd be hanging from a tree.  Just for being black.

Trump in a room with a random sample of the counter protesters?  He'd get yelled at. They would promise to get more democrats to vote next time.

I never argued they were equivalent, in fact I've specifically said the opposite & exactly what you're saying.  Again: KKK are WAAAAYYYYYY worse than ANTIFA radicals.  If I were forced to choose a violent KKK member or a violence ANTIFA, well duh yes I'd choose ANTIFA.  That's not the debate here.  The debate is whether initiating violence against white supremacists is a valid tactic we should support or condemn.  I'm saying I'm against any civilian initiating violence against another civilian unless their or another's life or physical safety is in immediate danger.  That's essentially how the law currently works. I'm for the rule of law, & nobody is above that no matter how righteous their cause, unless ie: there's a severe breakdown in rule of law/democracy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 18, 2017, 05:48:13 pm
This whole 'there's no moral equivalency' thing is hard to understand.  These NAZI's are not the NAZI's of the 1930's and 40's, they haven't actually done much of anything when looked at in context, certainly not as much as ISIS for example, are these modern NAZI's more of a threat than ISIS?  Have they done more damage?
Well, lets see...

In the past 10 years, there have been at least 372 people killed by extremists. Of those,
- 74% were killed by right wing extremists
- 24% were killed by Islamic terrorists
- 2% were killed by left wing extremists
(ETA: This is for the United States.)

Now, granted, not all of those 74% were Nazis... some were members of the KKK, or other extremist groups. Still, some might consider that a racist is a racist, whether they are waving a swastika or the confederate flag.

https://www.adl.org/education/resources/reports/murder-and-extremism-in-the-united-states-in-2016

Oh, and by the way... did you know that Trump cut funding to programs to combat right-wing extremists? So while the Racist-in-Chief is trying to stop immigration to protect us from the evil people who pray in a funny way, he is giving free reign to those who cause roughly 3 times the number of deaths. (But at least there are some "fine people" among them.)

http://www.metro.us/president-trump/trump-federal-funding-hate-group-violence
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 18, 2017, 06:54:40 pm
Well, lets see...

In the past 10 years, there have been at least 372 people killed by extremists. Of those,
- 74% were killed by right wing extremists
- 24% were killed by Islamic terrorists
- 2% were killed by left wing extremists

You're right, the stats I've also seen indicate that right-wing extremists are much more violent in terms of causing deaths than left-wing extremists in the US.  Makes sense since a US rightwinger is much more likely to be armed to the teeth with firearms etc.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on August 18, 2017, 11:02:31 pm
Antifa exists to fight white supremacist fascists. They're not instigators, they're a reaction to violence. You know, the groups chanting kill the Jews and Nazi slogans. Yet you call Antifa the instigators? You might want to reflect on that a little more.



I'm talking about throwing the first punch, not self-defense, when I say it's wrong. 

I don't think punching people for doing nazi salute is a measured response. 

http://www.distractify.com/politics/2017/08/16/Z2vFsHr/man-makes-nazi-salute-on-camer


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on August 18, 2017, 11:05:22 pm
I never argued they were equivalent, in fact I've specifically said the opposite & exactly what you're saying.  Again: KKK are WAAAAYYYYYY worse than ANTIFA radicals.  If I were forced to choose a violent KKK member or a violence ANTIFA, well duh yes I'd choose ANTIFA.  That's not the debate here.  The debate is whether initiating violence against white supremacists is a valid tactic we should support or condemn.  I'm saying I'm against any civilian initiating violence against another civilian unless their or another's life or physical safety is in immediate danger.  That's essentially how the law currently works. I'm for the rule of law, & nobody is above that no matter how righteous their cause, unless ie: there's a severe breakdown in rule of law/democracy.

I get what you're saying, it's not difficult to understand. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 19, 2017, 08:00:10 am
Obviously it isn't.
No. It really is.

A white supremacist neo-nazi murdered an innocent woman and attempted to murder several others by driving a car into a crowd. It's pretty easy to unequivocally denounce a terrorist murderer without pointing fingers at the victims at all. Bringing up ANTIFA or any other nonsense is meant to equivocate and justify his actions. Absolutely nothing else. It is literally used to diminish the gravity of what had happened. It also changes the conversation from denouncing an appalling murder to whining about liberals.

Look, you keep saying how abhorrent neo-nazis are and that there's no justification for their action. That entire rally was about white supremacy and those who weren't white supremacists stayed there and supported people chanting Nazi slogans and death to the Jews. What would you do if you went to a rally that you thought was about preserving historical monuments only to find yourself surrounded by a crowd full of hate-mongers? A normal, reasonable, and rational person would leave. That's not a crowd you want to be associated with or supporting. So that ENTIRE side were shitbags. Full stop.

On the left, you had professors, students, citizens, denouncing hate-mongering and white supremacy. That's what the vast majority of that crowd was. Were there radicals there. Absolutely. ANTIFA is a radical group, organized to fight white supremacy. But that was not the entire crowd on the other side. Not even close. That's not who was murdered by that maniac. That's not who those 19 others were that were seriously injured by him either. These were innocent civilians.

Seriously. Denouncing what had happened is a total softball. There is absolutely no room to play politics and during a time of crisis, during a literal radical rightwing terrorist attack, to turn around and start attacking the left and saying there's violence on "all sides" as if there is ANY comparison here. There is none. Nobody on the left opened fire on the crowd of white supremacists. Nobody on the left tried to drive a car into the crowd or murder anyone there. None.

In short, there is a time and a place to denounce the radicalism of ANTIFA. That absolutely has it's place and would be necessary if they drove a car into a crowd of white supremacists. Doing it when you're on national television supposedly consoling the nation after a white supremacist tried to murder a couple dozen people.....there's nothing else to call that than **** stupid. That's seriously not the time for mental **** about tallying up the sins of both sides to see which is worse.

(Besides, even if you did that, it's not even damn near close which radicals have shed more blood. Timothy McVeigh, Anders Breivik, etc., have spilled FAR more blood than any radical leftwing group that wasn't some authoritarian despot government ever has. There's a reason the intelligence agencies have said rightwing radical lone wolves are the single biggest terrorist threat to America. It's not leftwing radicals blowing up government buildings, building up militias, shooting up or burning down black churches, or driving cars into crowds of protesters. It wasn't leftwing protesters throwing black babies to alligators, dragging black men from their homes and hanging them from trees, or dragging black people from the bumpers of pickup trucks.)

Have some damn perspective, man.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 19, 2017, 10:48:13 am
I think amongst all this bullshit it's also really important to note that there is absolutely zero documented evidence of the left attacking anyone at all. Trump completely fabricated the story about them "charging in with clubs." It never happened. Not a single photo or video of it happening has emerged. Meanwhile, aside from the murder that took place, we do have videos and photos of white supremacists shoving and attacking counter-protesters, including clergy who had linked arms. More importantly, look at the stated purpose of the groups. The anarchists and anti-fascists were there to protest against white supremacy. White supremacists were there to literally promote genocide and violence.

I just can't for the life of me understand how anyone can even remotely equivocate on this matter. It's like the cops breaking up a streetfight and someone saying "There was a lot of violent on both sides. The drunks fighting in the street and the cops breaking them up. Lots of bad violence everywhere." It's sheer stupidity.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 19, 2017, 12:26:14 pm
There are multiple different issues here, and the white supremacy thing has overshadowed everything else, as it should.

Leaving that aside, we have:

 -people bringing weapons to public spaces in anticipation of confrontation.  -not cool.

 -does the US really need monuments to the Confederacy?  -I personally don't get it.

 -what's the best way to oppose speech we strongly disagree with?  -I am not sure.

 -what other ways are there to combat hate groups other than actual combat?


We've probably all seen the video of Richard Spencer getting punched in the head during an interview, and we probably all laughed because Richard Spencer probably deserves to get punched in the head.  But the reality is that we can't go around punching people in the head.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 19, 2017, 12:42:11 pm
-does the US really need monuments to the Confederacy?  -I personally don't get it.

 -k
Let me explain it as briefly as possible, since this one really interests me because I have a material history background.

Confederate monuments were erected for the sole purpose of intimidating black people in public spaces during the Jim Crow era. They weren't put up just after the wars to memorialize the fallen. They were put up 50-75 years. You know what's another fine example of this kind of white supremacy? Schools. When black people were finally allowed to go to the same public schools as white people, guess what happened? They started renaming schools after Confederates, as a subversive "**** you" to black people.

Here's a fantastic graphic showing the timeline. The blue dots are "monuments" built at courthouses. The green dots are schoolhouse "monuments." It's not a coincidence that there was an explosion of schoolhouse monuments after Brown v Board of Education.

https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/whoseheritage-timeline150_years_of_iconography.jpg

For reference:

Plessy v Ferguson 1896--Separate but equal doctrine. The kickoff of Jim Crow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plessy_v._Ferguson

Brown v Board of Education 1954--Overturned Plessy v Ferguson. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Board_of_Education

Those monuments aren't even remotely close to memorializing history. They were meant for one sole purpose and that was the intimidation of black people in public spaces.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 19, 2017, 01:05:58 pm
That's extremely interesting!

That sharp rise at around 1900-- 35 years after the war ended-- suggests that maybe the people who remembered the war were dying off and the people who were children or not even born at the time of the war were coming to power... so maybe their notion of the Confederacy was based on romanticized ideas they learned as kids.

I was reading last week about a group called "The Daughters of the Confederacy", the group that put up the Jefferson Davis plaque in Montreal that was removed last week.  The Daughters, founded at about the same time-- 1894-- set out to promote a revisionist, romanticized view of the Confederacy. I think the 30 year gap is interesting.  It seems to indicate that conditions had to change before they could go ahead with. Maybe romanticizing the South couldn't proceed until people who actually remembered the Civil War died off... maybe romanticizing the South couldn't begin in earnest until kids raised on tales of Southern glory became adults.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 19, 2017, 02:59:08 pm
-people bringing weapons to public spaces in anticipation of confrontation.  -not cool.

Not cool? It's idiotic. It's idiotic to even let them wear masks and carry shields. And the whole concept of 'open carry' is ludicrous.

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-does the US really need monuments to the Confederacy?  -I personally don't get it.

I'm not a southerner. But the south has developed, perhaps because they were crushed in their war, a need to believe that their history was something greater, more noble. It's become a part of their culture now, of how they see themselves. A poll taken by National Public Radio showed Americans think the monuments should remain, by more than a two to one margin. The margin was even higher among Republicans as just 6% felt they should be removed.

Quote
-what's the best way to oppose speech we strongly disagree with?  -I am not sure.

Imagine if you gave a rally and made speeches and nobody paid any attention to it because it was stupid?

Quote
We've probably all seen the video of Richard Spencer getting punched in the head during an interview, and we probably all laughed because Richard Spencer probably deserves to get punched in the head.  But the reality is that we can't go around punching people in the head.

And a lot of people took a fierce joy in him getting punched and run off. Today in Boston thousands of protestors swamped a couple of hundred right wingers trying to hold a demo in the park. From what I've read, this was not a white supremacist or Nazi thing. They were libertarians, trump supporters, etc. As far as the demonstrators were concerned they were all Nazis and racists, though. The activist Left does not make fine distinctions in this regard. There is supposed to be a rally in Vancouver over immigration. No doubt some of the people who would/will attend are unsavoury, but many will simply be opposing our current immigration system. But again, the Left is already describing it as a white nationalist rally.

I really don't give a **** about Nazis and klukkers. There really aren't that many of them, especially in Canada. I do really care about freedom of speech, though, and the tendency of the Left to try to shut down any and all conservative demos, meetings or speeches with all-purpose labels and pejoratives.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 19, 2017, 03:19:58 pm
You're right, the stats I've also seen indicate that right-wing extremists are much more violent in terms of causing deaths than left-wing extremists in the US.  Makes sense since a US rightwinger is much more likely to be armed to the teeth with firearms etc.

But even the author of the study which the numbers are derived from makes the point that these are not, for the most part, terrorist incidents. These people are often deranged in their anti-government views, and their violence is often unplanned, or lacks a political motive, or, if it has a political motive, lacks the intent to affect or impact the political or social climate. These are resentful losers with guns, and yes, they're violent, and yes, there's a lot more of them than there are of Muslim terrorists. But the people don't fear them very much because their attacks are usually narrow, aimed at police or government figures. They generally aren't out there hijacking airliners or frenziedly stabbing women to death on the streets, or blowing up bombs in markets or machinegunning crowds of people in malls and restaurants. So they are not, in other words, sowing 'terror' among the general populace. We don't have to show up three hours early to the airport for fear of right wingers putting bombs on the planes, and we don't have cops with automatic weapons at bus and train stations for fear of crazed right wingers. This is why there is a disparity in the coverage and alarm.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on August 19, 2017, 05:05:30 pm
As far as the demonstrators were concerned they were all Nazis and racists, though. The activist Left does not make fine distinctions in this regard.

Kind of like the right-wingers who fail to make any distinction between 'extremists' and Muslims.


Quote
There is supposed to be a rally in Vancouver over immigration. No doubt some of the people who would/will attend are unsavoury, but many will simply be opposing our current immigration system. But again, the Left is already describing it as a white nationalist rally.

This rally is co-organized by WCAI - Worldwide Coalition Against Islam - leader Joey DeLuca.   

[Coalition president Joey De Luca, a Calgary resident travelling to Vancouver for the rally, said Friday he was unable to explain why his vice-president promoted such messages online, a day after De Luca had insisted his group wasn’t racist and had nothing to do with white supremacy.

Earlier this week, Wielenga posted “14 WORDS” on his public Facebook profile, to which another Facebook user responded “1488” and “Hail victory brother,” prompting Wielenga to publicly endorse both comments by clicking “Like.”

These are coded terms commonly used by white supremacists and neo-Nazis, referring to the 14-word slogan “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children,” and “88,” which stands for “Heil Hitler” (using the number “8” to represent “H,” the eighth letter of the alphabet). “Hail victory” is the English translation of “Sieg heil,” a salute used in Nazi Germany.

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/no-apologies-from-vancouver-rally-organizer-who-posted-white-supremacist-codes-racist-images-online

The co-organizers are the Cultural Action Party, right up your political alley --
a registered B.C. Political Party, represent Canadian citizens who value and wish to retain Canada's traditional identity, heritage and official languages by way of the following:

Preserve and promote English, French and First Nations cultural heritage throughout society.
Ensure British Columbian residents receive priority regarding affordable housing, employment, education and medical services.
Legislate Canada’s official language of English as the official language of the province of British Columbia.
Restrict, regulate and tax foreign investment in residential, commercial and agricultural real estate.
Revise provincial immigration nominee programs to maximize economic benefit.
Maintain the separation of religion and state at all levels of government, judiciary, legal and educational institutions.
Reduce child poverty and address child abuse within province of British Columbia.
Commercial public signage to be inclusive of Canada’s official language of English.
Repeal carbon emissions taxation within province of British Columbia.
Support funding of Canada’s military and veteran services within their communities.

http://capforcanada.com/platform/



Quote
I really don't give a **** about Nazis and klukkers. There really aren't that many of them, especially in Canada. I do really care about freedom of speech, though, and the tendency of the Left to try to shut down any and all conservative demos, meetings or speeches with all-purpose labels and pejoratives.

Yet, you are very concerned about Muslim extremists in Canada, of which there are even less.  Why the double standard?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 19, 2017, 06:29:24 pm
Kind of like the right-wingers who fail to make any distinction between 'extremists' and Muslims.

In surveys taken of world Muslims, the majority give opinions on issues like Jews, gays, religious freedom  and gender equality which are, by our standards, extremist.

Quote
This rally is co-organized by WCAI - Worldwide Coalition Against Islam - leader Joey DeLuca.   

[Coalition president Joey De Luca, a Calgary resident travelling to Vancouver for the rally, said Friday he was unable to explain why his vice-president promoted such messages online, a day after De Luca had insisted his group wasn’t racist and had nothing to do with white supremacy.

So his deputy is a moron? So? I imagine they'll wind up parting ways with him from the sound of it.

Quote
The co-organizers are the Cultural Action Party, right up your political alley --
a registered B.C. Political Party, represent Canadian citizens who value and wish to retain Canada's traditional identity, heritage and official languages by way of the following:

Preserve and promote English, French and First Nations cultural heritage throughout society.
Ensure British Columbian residents receive priority regarding affordable housing, employment, education and medical services.
Legislate Canada’s official language of English as the official language of the province of British Columbia.
Restrict, regulate and tax foreign investment in residential, commercial and agricultural real estate.
Revise provincial immigration nominee programs to maximize economic benefit.
Maintain the separation of religion and state at all levels of government, judiciary, legal and educational institutions.
Reduce child poverty and address child abuse within province of British Columbia.
Commercial public signage to be inclusive of Canada’s official language of English.
Repeal carbon emissions taxation within province of British Columbia.
Support funding of Canada’s military and veteran services within their communities.

http://capforcanada.com/platform/

What about any of that is extreme?

Quote
Yet, you are very concerned about Muslim extremists in Canada, of which there are even less.  Why the double standard?

Again, the cultural attitudes and beliefs of world Muslims tend to be extremist by our standards. And there are a whole hell of a lot more of them than there are Nazis.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 20, 2017, 06:57:14 am
In surveys taken of world Muslims, the majority give opinions on issues like Jews, gays, religious freedom  and gender equality which are, by our standards, extremist.
 

I think the breakdown of what constitutes a 'group' is informative here.

You are born into a culture, and you don't choose it.  An alt-right group is a new thing, an organized group with stated principles that somebody seeks out and joins because they agree with those. 

Groups and demographics can be useful analytical tools, but humans tend to select groupings that support our in-born "us vs them" tribalism.  If you select groups based on that, you're already on the path to separating and dividing people. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 20, 2017, 09:59:25 am
I think the breakdown of what constitutes a 'group' is informative here.

You are born into a culture, and you don't choose it.  An alt-right group is a new thing, an organized group with stated principles that somebody seeks out and joins because they agree with those. 

The end result is the same. You have views which, by our cultural standards, are extreme. And in some cases, few, to be sure, those views lead some to perform acts of brutal violence against people they don't even know. Thus some moronic Nazi outraged that they disagree with him drives his car into people in Charlottesville. Thus some moronic Moroccan outraged that women aren't behaving in the meek, modest, obedient fashion he believes they should takes a knife to them in Finland.

Quote
Groups and demographics can be useful analytical tools, but humans tend to select groupings that support our in-born "us vs them" tribalism.  If you select groups based on that, you're already on the path to separating and dividing people.

Yes, we do tend to prefer groupings which are 'like us'. That's no surprise to any social psychologist. And that can mean resentment and disapproval towards groups which are not like us. But it usually means we just don't want to have much to do with them. Of course, the more closely you mix these groups and the wider the variance between deeply held beliefs the greater the likelihood of outrage and thus violence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 20, 2017, 10:27:06 am
I've never felt the need to mix with groups of people that were 'like me' at all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 20, 2017, 10:33:07 am
I've never felt the need to mix with groups of people that were 'like me' at all.

Well, you're just special.

It is a common complaint that every place is starting to look the same. But in the information age, the late writer James Chapin once told me, every place becomes more like itself. People are less often tied down to factories and mills, and they can search for places to live on the basis of cultural affinity. Once they find a town in which people share their values, they flock there, and reinforce whatever was distinctive about the town in the first place.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/09/people-like-us/302774/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/09/people-like-us/302774/)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on August 20, 2017, 10:45:33 am
I've never felt the need to mix with groups of people that were 'like me' at all.

Yeah, I've always found it interesting and rewarding to mix with all kinds of people.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 20, 2017, 10:50:02 am
Yeah, I've always found it interesting and rewarding to mix with all kinds of people.

Of course. You're special too.

The science behind the adage that birds of a feather flock together has been unravelled at last. It is all down to a brain region which categorises people as being like us, even if all we know about them is that they have one thing in common..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/3336375/We-prefer-people-we-think-are-similar-to-ourselves.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/3336375/We-prefer-people-we-think-are-similar-to-ourselves.html)

If you’ve been under the impression that only opposites attract, then it's time to re-think everything. According to a new study by various research institutions in Germany, we are attracted to people who are similar to us, as opposed to someone who is our opposite. We inherently want someone so much like us, that we’re even attracted to people who look like us or family members. Yes, your partner actually might look just like your mom, but you also might just be in severe denial about it.


https://www.bustle.com/articles/153908-why-were-attracted-to-people-who-are-just-like-us-according-to-science (https://www.bustle.com/articles/153908-why-were-attracted-to-people-who-are-just-like-us-according-to-science)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on August 20, 2017, 11:17:49 am
Of course. You're special too.

The science behind the adage that birds of a feather flock together has been unravelled at last. It is all down to a brain region which categorises people as being like us, even if all we know about them is that they have one thing in common..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/3336375/We-prefer-people-we-think-are-similar-to-ourselves.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/3336375/We-prefer-people-we-think-are-similar-to-ourselves.html)

I suppose it's not news that most people prefer to stay inside their little self-limiting boxes, and avoid reaching out or experiencing different things.   


If you’ve been under the impression that only opposites attract, then it's time to re-think everything. According to a new study by various research institutions in Germany, we are attracted to people who are similar to us, as opposed to someone who is our opposite. We inherently want someone so much like us, that we’re even attracted to people who look like us or family members. Yes, your partner actually might look just like your mom, but you also might just be in severe denial about it.


https://www.bustle.com/articles/153908-why-were-attracted-to-people-who-are-just-like-us-according-to-science (https://www.bustle.com/articles/153908-why-were-attracted-to-people-who-are-just-like-us-according-to-science)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on August 20, 2017, 08:21:13 pm
On the left, you had professors, students, citizens, denouncing hate-mongering and white supremacy. That's what the vast majority of that crowd was. Were there radicals there. Absolutely. ANTIFA is a radical group, organized to fight white supremacy. But that was not the entire crowd on the other side. Not even close. That's not who was murdered by that maniac. That's not who those 19 others were that were seriously injured by him either. These were innocent civilians.

Seriously. Denouncing what had happened is a total softball. There is absolutely no room to play politics and during a time of crisis, during a literal radical rightwing terrorist attack, to turn around and start attacking the left and saying there's violence on "all sides" as if there is ANY comparison here. There is none. Nobody on the left opened fire on the crowd of white supremacists. Nobody on the left tried to drive a car into the crowd or murder anyone there. None.

In short, there is a time and a place to denounce the radicalism of ANTIFA. That absolutely has it's place and would be necessary if they drove a car into a crowd of white supremacists. Doing it when you're on national television supposedly consoling the nation after a white supremacist tried to murder a couple dozen people.....there's nothing else to call that than **** stupid. That's seriously not the time for mental **** about tallying up the sins of both sides to see which is worse.



You are totally obfuscating, it's been explained again and again that the nazis are way worse and there is no comparison between the two sides.  Donald Trump is an idiot and equally idiotic are his statements on the topic.

For the 20th time - yes, the nazis are way worse.  They are despicable.  They ganged up and beat people and one of them committed murder and attempted murder.

Nobody (at least on this board) is refuting that.  But that doesn't mean that going around and throwing the first punch against the idiots is a righteous thing to do and if you think nobody is doing that then your head is very much in the sand because a TONNE of people are excusing it and applauding it on social media and since you deny anyone did anything of the sort, please see my last post where I left a link earlier where a man was punched for doing a nazi salute.

That's the issue here... nobody on this board is defending Trump's moral equivalence as though the two are equal.  Nobody.

Only that it's not complete evil against complete innocence, we have idiots on our side too who are not doing our cause any good.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on August 20, 2017, 08:33:53 pm
Of course. You're special too.

The science behind the adage that birds of a feather flock together has been unravelled at last. It is all down to a brain region which categorises people as being like us, even if all we know about them is that they have one thing in common..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/3336375/We-prefer-people-we-think-are-similar-to-ourselves.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/3336375/We-prefer-people-we-think-are-similar-to-ourselves.html)

If you’ve been under the impression that only opposites attract, then it's time to re-think everything. According to a new study by various research institutions in Germany, we are attracted to people who are similar to us, as opposed to someone who is our opposite. We inherently want someone so much like us, that we’re even attracted to people who look like us or family members. Yes, your partner actually might look just like your mom, but you also might just be in severe denial about it.


https://www.bustle.com/articles/153908-why-were-attracted-to-people-who-are-just-like-us-according-to-science (https://www.bustle.com/articles/153908-why-were-attracted-to-people-who-are-just-like-us-according-to-science)

Well, I agree that I like to be friends who are like me but that has nothing to do with their outward appearances.  Generally it comes down to values and lifestyle. 

I must be special too.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 20, 2017, 10:34:43 pm
In Montreal, the "anti-fascist" protesters made fools of themselves by attacking the police and media while the anti-immigration group "La Meute" waited in an underground parkade for police to disperse the rioters.


This was from the Seattle "counter-protest" to the "Patriot Prayer" event there:

https://streamable.com/yzmw6

It's hard to get behind a group who are prepared to beat a guy's head in because he looks "alt-right" to them.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 21, 2017, 07:50:58 am
Well, I agree that I like to be friends who are like me but that has nothing to do with their outward appearances.  Generally it comes down to values and lifestyle. 

I must be special too.

But if you start out with zero friends who are non-white, how long will it take to get to a place where your friend list is proportional to your local area, or Canada ?  I have, like, four black friends in Toronto and it's not for not liking black folks.  I just don't meet them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on August 21, 2017, 08:41:11 am
It's hard to get behind a group who are prepared to beat a guy's head in because he looks "alt-right" to them.


 -k
Agreed.  Also the masks, thats weird, is it to intimidate the "other side" or to avoid cameras?   I am reminded of Surreu Creep Catchers, and some cops, who think their goal justifies their means. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 21, 2017, 09:07:38 am
In Montreal

Quebec City
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on August 21, 2017, 09:33:41 am
Now that Trump has bankrupted the Secret Service in only 7 months we will see:

Will it be the Antifa's who get him?

Or will it be the KKK since he "allowed his white daughter to marry a jew?"

I wonder what the odds are?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 21, 2017, 10:25:13 am
No. It really is.

This followed by 7 paragraphs explaining to me why it's so simple, including several strawmans aka arguments of things I never even said.

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A white supremacist neo-nazi murdered an innocent woman and attempted to murder several others by driving a car into a crowd. It's pretty easy to unequivocally denounce a terrorist murderer without pointing fingers at the victims at all.

It wasn't the victims' fault they got hit by a damned car by an a$$!  I'm not saying that!

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Bringing up ANTIFA or any other nonsense is meant to equivocate and justify his actions. Absolutely nothing else.

Uhh no, it's meant to say it wasn't just the neo-nazis who started violence and to make the point that fighting neo-nazis with their own tactics is the wrong way to do this.  I've said several times now THE WHITE SUPREMACISTS AND ANTIFA ARE NOT MORALLY EQUIVALENT  And stop telling ME the intentions of what I'M saying, multiple people in here making boogey-mens up in their own minds and then accusing me of being this imaginary enemy aka strawman.

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It is literally used to diminish the gravity of what had happened. It also changes the conversation from denouncing an appalling murder to whining about liberals.

It may be by Trump, but not I.  I'm not whining about liberals.  My political views mostly lean liberal.  I'm whining about a$$hats who commit violence.  I don't give a crap what side you're on, if you started violence during those protests you're an a$$.  If you support mob violence whether on left or right, you're an a$$.  White supremecists who started violence are bigger a$$es, that doesn't make the leftwing a$$ses not a$$ses.

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On the left, you had professors, students, citizens, denouncing hate-mongering and white supremacy. That's what the vast majority of that crowd was. Were there radicals there. Absolutely. ANTIFA is a radical group, organized to fight white supremacy. But that was not the entire crowd on the other side. Not even close.

I'm aware of that and never said otherwise, yet another strawman.

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In short, there is a time and a place to denounce the radicalism of ANTIFA. That absolutely has it's place and would be necessary if they drove a car into a crowd of white supremacists. Doing it when you're on national television supposedly consoling the nation after a white supremacist tried to murder a couple dozen people.....there's nothing else to call that than **** stupid. That's seriously not the time for mental **** about tallying up the sins of both sides to see which is worse.

What Trump did and did not say was wrong, he handled that very poorly, because he's a damned racist, so I agree with you there for sure.  I'm not the POTUS though and I don't speak for America, so I can say whatever I want.  And I say anyone who started violence there is an a$$.  Here I'll edit that so people don't misinterpret my intentions yet again:   Anyone who started violence there is an a$$, and white supremacists who started violence are even bigger a$$es.  Doesn't that go without saying???

Not only did you not denounce the ANTIFA violence (& btw there were more than ANTIFA there on the left creating violence, like the guy who attacked the organizer), you're on record here as supporting it as are others.  IMO that's wrong.  Racist-filled hate & rageful violence fought with justice-filled hate & rageful violence is still hate & rageful violence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 21, 2017, 10:36:35 am
I think amongst all this bullshit it's also really important to note that there is absolutely zero documented evidence of the left attacking anyone at all.

Wrong.  Go to 17:30 (not even ANTIFA that I can tell)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P54sP0Nlngg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P54sP0Nlngg)

or go to 55 seconds, police do nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxECY1PXjiM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxECY1PXjiM)

I think amongst all this bullshit it's also really important to note that there is absolutely zero documented evidence of the left attacking anyone at all. Trump completely fabricated the story about them "charging in with clubs." It never happened. Not a single photo or video of it happening has emerged.

Wrong, go to 2:45 ((not even ANTIFA that I can tell)

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3orIUX2CAmQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3orIUX2CAmQ)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 21, 2017, 11:23:31 am
Poor Nazis. My heart bleeds for how much violence they have to suffer while advocating GENOCIDE.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 21, 2017, 11:34:40 am
But the south has developed, perhaps because they were crushed in their war, a need to believe that their history was something greater, more noble. It's become a part of their culture now, of how they see themselves.
The problem is, its a false perspective, and one that should be dropped. There was nothing 'noble' in the attempt to keep a race of people as slaves, and revisionist history on behalf of southerners (such as "it was about freedom/states rights") is all bunk that should be challenged.

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A poll taken by National Public Radio showed Americans think the monuments should remain, by more than a two to one margin. The margin was even higher among Republicans as just 6% felt they should be removed.
I hadn't heard about that poll, so I was skeptical. (I thought it might have been an online poll or something similarly non-scientific.) But its correct.. most Americans are fine with confederate monuments.

Personally though, I suspect that some people really aren't sure of exactly what the issues mean. They've fallen for the false "southern pride" narrative, and if people received more information at least some people might change their minds.

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I really don't give a **** about Nazis and klukkers. There really aren't that many of them, especially in Canada.
Keep in mind that even though there may be very few people on the fringes (i.e. who care enough to march with the nazis/KKK), we also have to consider those with milder racism... those who (for example) voted for trump because "OMG the immigrants are going to break into our homes and eat our children". By challenging the more extreme forms of racism, we will hopefully have an influence on the less extremist (but still racist) people in society.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 21, 2017, 11:36:33 am
You are totally obfuscating, it's been explained again and again that the nazis are way worse and there is no comparison between the two sides.  Donald Trump is an idiot and equally idiotic are his statements on the topic.

There has been so much self-righteousness by the media on this topic. It really is getting hard to take. First, we all agree Trump is an idiot, a bundle of emotions with the self-control of a two year old. He's also ignorant and simple minded. Those who have said he's a media savvy guy know nothing about him. He's always been an idiot. This is the guy who said his daughter had great boobs and he'd love to boff her if she wasn't his daughter - on live radio. This is the guy who called up a radio station pretending to be someone else to brag about his sexual prowess with his mistress - like no one was going to recognize his voice. Trump is NOT media savvy. He's a less mature, more mean spirited version of Archie Bunker with inherited money. Everything he did and said on his TV show was scripted by someone else.

He DID unconditionally condemn racists, bigots and Nazis. His hangup seems to be the same as mine, which is that yes, they need to be condemned, but violence in the streets needs to be condemned no matter who is doing it. Note. Two issues here. A hateful mentality and belief system is one. No argument there that the Nazis are worse. Street brawls and riots, though, seem to involve two sides, both of them filled with hatred for the other side.

Were there 'good people' at the rally? It's hard to find, but my understanding is that not everyone who went was a Nazi or White Supremacist. I did catch an interview with one guy who went who said he was kind of disgusted with these people, but was in favor of free speech for everyone, and was really concerned about southern heritage.

What is Trump being so continuously denounced for? For saying there were some bad people on the other side? But there were. This is self-evident. A savvy media guy would know not to bring that up, but Trump isn't savvy about anything except higher end New York real estate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 21, 2017, 11:46:35 am
Well, I agree that I like to be friends who are like me but that has nothing to do with their outward appearances.  Generally it comes down to values and lifestyle. 

I must be special too.

I'm afraid not. If you read the cite it made it clear, as did the other two, that we choose people, and even places to live, based on how culturally compatible they are with our own values. Every city has those areas where people congregate because they're much alike. Ottawa has the Glebe, for example, where the precious progressives congregate. Boulder Colorado has the same reputation, as the cite points out. We wind up being friends with people who are the same economic class and have mostly the same levels of education and whose likes and dislikes tend to mirror our own. If you're a jock, who are your friends? Mostly jocks. You all love sports and go to games and watch them on TV. If you're a nerd, do you have a lot of jock friends? Probably not. If you're a progressive type, very progressive, your friends likely will be mostly of the same mentality. You probably aren't going to have a lot of devoted evangelical Christian pals. If you're gay, a lot of your friends will be gay and you'll like to live in a gay friendly area (thus gay villages in a number of cities).  If you love country music and rural life and drive a pickup truck you probably aren't going to be a progressive and won't want to live in places like the Glebe. You won't like the same music or TV shows either, won't read the same books and magazines, won't be into social media as much, if at all.

All of this is just within one society. Now when you bring in people from another society, one as vastly different as, say, Muslims, you're going to find them wanting to hang out together, too, and live in the same areas, consuming different media, going to different clubs and enjoying different things. And you're going to find a lot of Canadians not being happy living in their midst and moving out. Not because they're brown but because their whole culture is different.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 21, 2017, 11:52:53 am
Poor Nazis. My heart bleeds for how much violence they have to suffer while advocating GENOCIDE.

You don't understand. We, as a society, let the Nazis have their dumb views and speak about their dumb ideas without violence so that we can have our dumb views and speak about our dumb ideas without violence.

And if you think there aren't a lot of people who think your ideas are dumb and offended by them to the point they'd like you to stop making them you're kidding yourself.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 21, 2017, 11:59:53 am
Were there 'good people' at the rally? It's hard to find, but my understanding is that not everyone who went was a Nazi or White Supremacist.
I'm sorry, but the rally was well publicized as a right wing "unite the right" white spremacist thing. And even if someone did show up at the rally expecting it to be about free speech, the minute they started chanting racist slogans and waving the swastika around was the minute they should have left (i.e. right away).
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I did catch an interview with one guy who went who said he was kind of disgusted with these people, but was in favor of free speech for everyone, and was really concerned about southern heritage.
Then this guy is an idiot. Probably a racist who is trying to justify his racist activities. "Oh no, I'm not a racist. I just think the statues are pretty. And ignore this nazi flag I'm carrying. And this white hood and robe I'm wearing? I'm going to a costume party after."

First of all, this has nothing to do with "free speech". Free speech is something between the government and the individual. It has nothing to do between individuals.  It is not an issue of free speech if you should say something I don't like and I decide to challenge you.

Secondly, as I have stated before, if he were really concerned about southern heritage, he'd become more knowledgable and realize that those statues are not 'historic' in any way, and were really put up to white-wash southern racism while at the same time giving the finger to black people.
Quote
What is Trump being so continuously denounced for? For saying there were some bad people on the other side? But there were. This is self-evident. A savvy media guy would know not to bring that up, but Trump isn't savvy about anything except higher end New York real estate.
I cannot speak to every person, but I suspect the vast majority of the anti-racist crowd was peaceful, with the rather decent message "racism is wrong". On the other hand every one of the people on the nazi/KKK/racist side was a a douche bag. Every single one of them. And they all had the same repugnant message "Racism is good".

Trying to complain about "bad guys on both sides" is like Charles Manson claiming everyone is bad because hey they may have got a parking ticket! Sometimes the scale of douchebaggery is so great on one side compared to another that even mentioning problems on the other side is a sign of moral failure.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 21, 2017, 12:07:06 pm
The problem is, its a false perspective, and one that should be dropped.

Maybe, but how many cultures have a false narrative about their past?
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Keep in mind that even though there may be very few people on the fringes (i.e. who care enough to march with the nazis/KKK), we also have to consider those with milder racism... those who (for example) voted for trump because "OMG the immigrants are going to break into our homes and eat our children".

And why is being against immigration a racist thing? Why are you even equating the two and linking anti-immigration to being a Nazi? Isn't that akin to calling those who believe in public health care a Communist? In other words, dumb?

There are many reasons to be against immigration as it stands, both cultural and economic. Our brainless prime minister doesn't understand that, but he's as ignorant, in his own way, as Trump, wrapped within his bubble all his life, seeing and befriending only those like him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 21, 2017, 12:15:45 pm
I'm sorry, but the rally was well publicized as a right wing "unite the right" white spremacist thing.

And how often do people behave like idiots? Anyway, I'm just saying there might have been and probably someone told Trump that.

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First of all, this has nothing to do with "free speech". Free speech is something between the government and the individual. It has nothing to do between individuals.  It is not an issue of free speech if you should say something I don't like and I decide to challenge you.

If you try to hold a rally or meeting to promote or discuss your views and masses of people shut you down that's an issue of free speech.


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Trying to complain about "bad guys on both sides" is like Charles Manson claiming everyone is bad because hey they may have got a parking ticket! Sometimes the scale of douchebaggery is so great on one side compared to another that even mentioning problems on the other side is a sign of moral failure.

I disagree. You are again trying to establish that if ones views are repugnant one has no right to hold or state or promote those views. I deeply disagree. You, and the media are focusing in on how distasteful the message is when the truth is it doesn't matter how distasteful the message is. It doesn't matter how distasteful or hateful the messengers are either. The equating is not between the morality of their message and the morality of the message of those opposed to them. The equating is between their street violence and the street violence of those who sought to shut them down.

I know everyone wishes we could simply say that we can ban them from speaking their views aloud and then stop there, but that's not reality. If they are silenced, then the focus will shift to those who are on the far right but much less extreme. And after THEY are silenced, the focus will shift further to the left. The people shutting down the weekend rallies made no distinction between the people trying to hold them and Nazis, despite both groups proclaiming they wanted nothing to do with Nazis or White Supremacists. If we allow AN opinion to be silenced then ALL opinions are subject to the popularity test, and any that aren't popular will be shut down.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 21, 2017, 12:17:54 pm
You don't understand. We, as a society, let the Nazis have their dumb views and speak about their dumb ideas without violence so that we can have our dumb views and speak about our dumb ideas without violence.

And if you think there aren't a lot of people who think your ideas are dumb and offended by them to the point they'd like you to stop making them you're kidding yourself.
You're incredibly dim witted if you think my views are even remotely akin to advocating genocide. White supremacy is violence. Period. Violence is an appropriate response to genocidal maniacs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 21, 2017, 12:36:25 pm
You're incredibly dim witted if you think my views are even remotely akin to advocating genocide. White supremacy is violence. Period. Violence is an appropriate response to genocidal maniacs.

Yeah, I don't get this opposite view at all.  These people would literally kill brown people and Jews if they were allowed to do so without and repercussions.  It's not only about their 'stupid views'.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 21, 2017, 12:49:09 pm
Anyway, I'm just saying there might have been...
Might have been what? A good person at the racist rally? Do you honestly think a good person would show up, see a bunch of swastikas, and still decide "this is where I should be"?
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...and probably someone told Trump that.
Even if someone told trump "there were good people on both sides", he should have rejected that notion as silly.
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If you try to hold a rally or meeting to promote or discuss your views and masses of people shut you down that's an issue of free speech.
No, its only an issue of free speech if the government tries to shut you down.

The racists held their rally in a public park. They took actions (chanting racist slogans) that were likely to get noticed. If they really wanted to JUST meet and discuss issues of how to be the bestest racist ever, they they could have selected a more private venue.
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I disagree. You are again trying to establish that if ones views are repugnant one has no right to hold or state or promote those views.
No, I'm not. I think people should be able to hold whatever disgusting views they want... whether its that one race is better than another, or that pepsi is better than coke, or that the leafs are better than the Senators. But that doesn't mean those views (and those holding them) shouldn't be soundly criticized and condemned at every opportunity.

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I deeply disagree. You, and the media are focusing in on how distasteful the message is when the truth is it doesn't matter how distasteful the message is. It doesn't matter how distasteful or hateful the messengers are either.
Yes it does. The distastefulness of the message may not be the ONLY factor, but it should be considered.

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The equating is not between the morality of their message and the morality of the message of those opposed to them. The equating is between their street violence and the street violence of those who sought to shut them down.
Well, as others have pointed out, the violence by the "left" appeared to be non-existent or at least extremely limited. The violence on the right ended up with a woman run down with a car. So even ignoring the message itself, how exactly are those to situations analogous?


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 21, 2017, 02:19:44 pm
Poor Nazis. My heart bleeds for how much violence they have to suffer while advocating GENOCIDE.

If there were KKK/Nazis there advocating genocide or violence they should have been arrested and charged, because threatening violence is & should be illegal.  That's how civilized civil society works:  the rule of law.  Too bad the police were next to useless, which is shameful.  Could have arrested a bunch of Nazis that day & thrown the book at them instead of firecrackers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 21, 2017, 02:22:39 pm
Re: The "false narrative" of southern heratige///
Maybe, but how many cultures have a false narrative about their past?
Irrelevant. A dumb thing is dumb whether one person does it or a billion, and we should be prepared to call people out on it if their views are wrong.
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And why is being against immigration a racist thing? Why are you even equating the two and linking anti-immigration to being a Nazi?
While being against immigration may not necessarily make a person a racist, it depends on their reasoning behind wanting to limit immigration. Trump certainly used the racist 'dog whistle' of immigration during the election campaign, with his "mexican rapist" comments and his proposed muslim ban.
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Isn't that akin to calling those who believe in public health care a Communist?
The fact that there are dozens of countries in the world who have implemented public health care (in some fashion) but still maintain a capitalist economy in most other areas suggest that you do not have to be a communist to accept a public health care system.
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There are many reasons to be against immigration as it stands, both cultural...
Given the number of natural-born Canadians/Americans compared to the number of immigrants let in in a single year, I think our basic culture is safe.

Now if you had a specific issue with how people are assimilated into our country, then there might be a valid topic for discussion.
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...and economic.
Canada (and the U.S.) have a fairly low birth rate. We need immigration to help provide the population base to maintain our society.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 21, 2017, 02:28:04 pm
If there were KKK/Nazis there advocating genocide or violence they should have been arrested and charged, because threatening violence is & should be illegal.
I assume it all depends on context.

The courts probably look at it differently if someone says "There is a jewish person... go and attack him" than if someone says "german concentration camps were a good thing". In some countries, the first one would be considered an incitement to violence pretty much everwhere (since the person would be advocating for an immediate use of violence), while the second one (depending on the state of the country's hate speech laws) might be considered protected speech.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 21, 2017, 06:12:47 pm
You're incredibly dim witted if you think my views are even remotely akin to advocating genocide. White supremacy is violence. Period. Violence is an appropriate response to genocidal maniacs.

I don't know how much more obvious I can be. If someone gets to stop the Nazis from speaking their offensive views, then they get to stop you too. Maybe it's because you aren't capable of seeing the forest for the trees. You zero in on Nazis and ignore the broader importance of freedom of speech. Or maybe you just don't have a problem with repressing other people's freedom of speech because you're convinced yours will never be repressed. But there is no way to write a law to repress the Nazis which will not leave you open to being repressed too if different people get into power. I'm not willing to take the chance just because of a small bunch of loonies and a somewhat larger group of offended snowflakes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 21, 2017, 06:17:27 pm
Yeah, I don't get this opposite view at all.  These people would literally kill brown people and Jews if they were allowed to do so without and repercussions.  It's not only about their 'stupid views'.

The Nazis are a pretty easy group to focus on. Their murderous beliefs are right there on the surface and aimed at particular groups. The Communists and Marxists, on the other hand, have always proclaimed a universal brotherhood. That hasn't stopped them from wantonly slaughtering millions who get in their way, or from instituting some of the world's most vile and repressive states. Their intolerance of opposing viewpoints is legendary and almost always  leads to concentration camps, re-education camps, and mass murder when they get into power.

So how's about this? You get to kill all the Nazis if we also kill all Communists and Marxists. That will include a significant portion of the NDP caucus, I'm afraid, along with a lot of the 'anti racist' bunch,  but hey, their views, if implemented, would literally kill unknowable numbers of people. So it's dangerous to allow them to go on expressing them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 21, 2017, 06:31:01 pm
No, its only an issue of free speech if the government tries to shut you down.

Really? If a mob of fascists attacks an anti-racist gathering and shuts it down while the police do nothing that's okay with you?

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The racists held their rally in a public park. They took actions (chanting racist slogans) that were likely to get noticed.

So what? They have a right to express their opinions and beliefs.

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No, I'm not. I think people should be able to hold whatever disgusting views they want... whether its that one race is better than another, or that pepsi is better than coke, or that the leafs are better than the Senators. But that doesn't mean those views (and those holding them) shouldn't be soundly criticized and condemned at every opportunity.

Sure. But criticizing is one thing, shutting them down through violence is another. Anyone who supports free speech would be opposed to that.

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Yes it does. The distastefulness of the message may not be the ONLY factor, but it should be considered.

We don't need free speech laws to protect speech which is popular. Or as Oliver Wendell Holmes said "If there is any principle of the Constitution that more imperatively calls for attachment than any other it is the principle of free thought — not free thought for those who agree with us but freedom for the thought that we hate.”
 
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Well, as others have pointed out, the violence by the "left" appeared to be non-existent or at least extremely limited. The violence on the right ended up with a woman run down with a car. So even ignoring the message itself, how exactly are those to situations analogous?

The violence from the Nazis was just as limited, except for one individual who went looney. If it hadn't of been we'd have heard of a lot of people hospitalized from being attacked by them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 21, 2017, 06:34:18 pm
Irrelevant. A dumb thing is dumb whether one person does it or a billion, and we should be prepared to call people out on it if their views are wrong.

I invite you, then, to tell native Canadians how stupid their cultural issues are and their continued desperate attempts to cling to a way of life from centuries past.

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Now if you had a specific issue with how people are assimilated into our country, then there might be a valid topic for discussion.Canada (and the U.S.) have a fairly low birth rate. We need immigration to help provide the population base to maintain our society.

There is no economic or logical argument in favour of our present immigration system (which will do little or nothing to redress our low birth rates), but this is not the topic to discuss it under.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 21, 2017, 07:29:27 pm
I don't see a moral equivalence here but a thug is a thug regardless of what side they are on. With the exception of the KKK, most of the white supremacist thugs were honest (or stupid) enough to show their faces. The mask wearing ANTIFA thugs are not. They don't really stand for anything except violence and are an anchor around the neck of peaceful protesters which actually helps the alt right.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 21, 2017, 08:20:53 pm
I really had to give this some thought, because we haven't had to face these kinds of people before.  I also had a lot of division in my friend circles as to how to handle it.  Peaceful response won out.  No antifa.  Not yet, anyway.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 21, 2017, 09:13:02 pm
I should have made my position on the Charlottesville thing more clear maybe.  Here it goes, & it's really simple:  obey the law.

Everyone who broke the law, you're a criminal & a jerk, I don't care your political leanings.  If you hit a bunch of people with your car, you're a really really lowlife criminal. If you protested "without a permit", who cares?? It's your legal constitutional right to protest these racist scumbags.  If you incited racist hate but not violence through speech, you're within your free speech limits legally but you're still a scumbag.  If you're Trump & you didn't condemn these racists outright from the very beginning that's your legal right but you're still scumbag.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 22, 2017, 10:55:05 am
I really had to give this some thought, because we haven't had to face these kinds of people before.  I also had a lot of division in my friend circles as to how to handle it.  Peaceful response won out.  No antifa.  Not yet, anyway.

Not yet? Kluckers and Nazis have been marching around since before you were born. Nothing has changed. There aren't more of them. They don't have more power. They're not causing more damage. Their beliefs aren't spreading. Just because the national media has suddenly discovered their existence and is breathlessly pumping out story after story about them does not mean they're any more of a factor in anyone's daily life or any more of a threat to peace and security than they were twenty or thirty or fifty years ago. Less, in fact. I can't even remember when there was a march by these people in Canada. The only thing growing on the right wing of Canada is anti-immigration groups, spawned by growing immigration  which is perceived by many to be out of control.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 22, 2017, 01:28:37 pm
If there were KKK/Nazis there advocating genocide or violence
You do know what Nazis and the KKK are, yeah? If so, what do you mean "if"?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 22, 2017, 01:33:05 pm
I don't know how much more obvious I can be. If someone gets to stop the Nazis from speaking their offensive views, then they get to stop you too. Maybe it's because you aren't capable of seeing the forest for the trees. You zero in on Nazis and ignore the broader importance of freedom of speech. Or maybe you just don't have a problem with repressing other people's freedom of speech because you're convinced yours will never be repressed. But there is no way to write a law to repress the Nazis which will not leave you open to being repressed too if different people get into power. I'm not willing to take the chance just because of a small bunch of loonies and a somewhat larger group of offended snowflakes.
I don't see it because it doesn't work that way. We bombed and killed Nazis in WWII, does that mean the government is going to bomb my neighbourhood next? You're pushing a slippery slope fallacy and expecting me to find it insightful. I don't because I don't think political views are the same as genocidal ones, neither should you or anyone else if you're the legal definition of a "reasonable" person.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 22, 2017, 01:37:28 pm
The Nazis are a pretty easy group to focus on. Their murderous beliefs are right there on the surface and aimed at particular groups. The Communists and Marxists, on the other hand, have always proclaimed a universal brotherhood. That hasn't stopped them from wantonly slaughtering millions who get in their way, or from instituting some of the world's most vile and repressive states.
Show me any writing from Marx or even Engels that advocates genocide. You're confusing authoritarian despotism for Communism. The difference is that the stated aims if Nazis and white supremacists are violent and genocidal. It takes a bastardization if Marx or complete ignorance of his historical observations to even remotely proclaim that the purpose of Communism is to "slaughter millions."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 22, 2017, 03:43:24 pm
Not yet? Kluckers and Nazis have been marching around since before you were born.

You don't know how old I am.  I could be 100.

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Nothing has changed. There aren't more of them. They don't have more power. They're not causing more damage. Their beliefs aren't spreading.

Which is why I said 'not yet'.

 Just because the national media has suddenly discovered their existence and is breathlessly pumping out story after story about them does not mean they're any more of a factor in anyone's daily life or any more of a threat to peace and security than they were twenty or thirty or fifty years ago. Less, in fact. I can't even remember when there was a march by these people in Canada. The only thing growing on the right wing of Canada is anti-immigration groups, spawned by growing immigration  which is perceived by many to be out of control.
[/quote]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 22, 2017, 04:12:59 pm
I don't see it because it doesn't work that way. We bombed and killed Nazis in WWII, does that mean the government is going to bomb my neighbourhood next? You're pushing a slippery slope fallacy and expecting me to find it insightful. I don't because I don't think political views are the same as genocidal ones, neither should you or anyone else if you're the legal definition of a "reasonable" person.

You're ignoring the fact that advocating genocide is illegal in both the US and Canada. That's why they don't do that. You might think (reasonably) that that's what they want, but they're not about to stand on a stage and call for the extermination of Jews or Blacks. Can you find such views on the internet? Sure, just as you can find lots of jihadi views on the internet. They pop up and disappear as they're taken down every day, put in place by antonymous hidden people who scurry away like roaches whenever you shine a light towards them.

The people in Charlottesville did not openly advocate genocide, any more than the mafia and hells angels, who, lets' face it are ALL criminals, openly  commit crimes, any more than Muslim extremists in the West openly call for the deaths of Jews (although some of them have been caught doing so in arabic in mosques). As long as they don't, they're allowed to get together and talk about "white pride" and the superiority of the white race and how Jews control the world under the direction of George Soros till the cows come home.

If you ban that because you 'say' they're genocidal then you can ban anyone's speech on the unproven presumption they have bad motives. And I'm certainly not going to accept the Left making decisions about what motives are unacceptable given how flexible they have always been in the use of terms like racist and hate-monger. When a left wing group can call a professor who won't use made-up gender nouns a fascist I'm not going to accept any of their accusations as legitimate without solid proof.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 22, 2017, 04:20:37 pm
Show me any writing from Marx or even Engels that advocates genocide. You're confusing authoritarian despotism for Communism.

Gee, how could I do that? It wouldn't be because every Communist government in history has been run by an authoritarian despot, would it? And I can see that same angry attitude among leftists in the Canada. They're so damned certain that what they want is for the betterment of mankind, especially the downtrodden, that they are infuriated at anyone who opposes their policies. After all, if you want to do something which will be a wonderful thing and help the downtrodden, and someone opposes that, why they must want to hurt the downtrodden! That makes them evil! Enemies of the people! And what happens to enemies of the people when the revolution comes?

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It takes a bastardization if Marx or complete ignorance of his historical observations to even remotely proclaim that the purpose of Communism is to "slaughter millions."

But the Nazis will tell you their policies are for the betterment of mankind, that getting rid of defective elements will improve the quality of the species and society will be more enlightened and more peaceful, with less crime and everyone working together. Wouldn't that be nice!?

The purpose of Communism is not to slaughter millions. That's just the way it always seems to work out. Enemies of the people can't be allowed to stand in the way of forming a more perfect society, after all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 22, 2017, 08:31:06 pm
You don't know how old I am.  I could be 100.

They were holding marches 100 years ago. Well, not the Nazis, but the klan.

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Which is why I said 'not yet'.



According to the Southern Poverty Law Center there were once 4 million KKK members in the US. Their estimate now is about 5000-8000. There are several nazi(ish) groups in America, the largest, the national socialists, has 400 members. In Canada, the Heritage Front had 18 members but disbanded. The media and progressives are going batshit crazy over groups who couldn't fill a moderate sized arena in the US and couldn't fill a restaurant in Canada, most of whom are all mouth.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on August 22, 2017, 08:52:14 pm
I'm afraid not. If you read the cite it made it clear, as did the other two, that we choose people, and even places to live, based on how culturally compatible they are with our own values. Every city has those areas where people congregate because they're much alike. Ottawa has the Glebe, for example, where the precious progressives congregate. Boulder Colorado has the same reputation, as the cite points out. We wind up being friends with people who are the same economic class and have mostly the same levels of education and whose likes and dislikes tend to mirror our own. If you're a jock, who are your friends? Mostly jocks. You all love sports and go to games and watch them on TV. If you're a nerd, do you have a lot of jock friends? Probably not. If you're a progressive type, very progressive, your friends likely will be mostly of the same mentality. You probably aren't going to have a lot of devoted evangelical Christian pals. If you're gay, a lot of your friends will be gay and you'll like to live in a gay friendly area (thus gay villages in a number of cities).  If you love country music and rural life and drive a pickup truck you probably aren't going to be a progressive and won't want to live in places like the Glebe. You won't like the same music or TV shows either, won't read the same books and magazines, won't be into social media as much, if at all.

All of this is just within one society. Now when you bring in people from another society, one as vastly different as, say, Muslims, you're going to find them wanting to hang out together, too, and live in the same areas, consuming different media, going to different clubs and enjoying different things. And you're going to find a lot of Canadians not being happy living in their midst and moving out. Not because they're brown but because their whole culture is different.

See this is where you and I have had very different experiences with immigrants and integration and see what we want to see.  I know you have the Muslim neighbour who loves 'going back home' and all around you what you see is people unwilling to assimilate but my friends are from all around the world, including myself, and we're all pretty Canadianized.

I would have as much of a difficult time befriending a newly arrived immigrant from my own ethnic background as I would a newly arrived Russian or Chinese or African.  Their kids and my kids will be just fine though from what I see in my kid's classroom where they aren't at all concerned about each other's race/ethnicity.

This is why I don't agree with a Canadian values test.  I could not befriend an oil-loving immigrant-hating Albertan (sorry for the strereotype) or a Trump loving conservative American but I have friends who are franco Quebecois who believe in the same fiscal and environmental policies as myself.  Language and geography don't mean all that much.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 22, 2017, 10:03:28 pm
Back on topic - that is some rally tonight. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 22, 2017, 10:21:22 pm
Among all the other madness - Trump basically says there won't be a NAFTA deal.  Canada should just walk away now.  Lets see if he can even get rid of NAFTA - I doubt it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on August 22, 2017, 10:24:12 pm
Has he actually done anything he said he's gonna do in order for us to be worried about NAFTA?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on August 22, 2017, 10:37:26 pm
Someone will show him a picture of Trudeau in a miniskirt tomorrow and he'll forget all about tearing up NAFTA.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 22, 2017, 10:51:40 pm
Hey, guys! Let's split the AntiFa topic into a new thread.  I want to talk about what a **** senile imbecile the POTUS is.

He's having a big rally in Phoenix, and there are rampant rumours that he might pardon America's Toughest Sheriff, Joe Arpaio.  And as one of Trump's biggest supporters, I wouldn't be surprised if America's Biggest **** did indeed get a pardon.

America's Dumbest Shitbag is due to face jail time for willfully defying court rulings regarding racial profiling. This is pretty much like convicting Al Capone of tax evasion, or convicting Charles Manson of loitering.  Arpaio is a human **** stain. I think prison violence and prison **** are reprehensible and I normally wouldn't wish them on anyone. But given the humiliation and cruelty deliberately inflicted on prisoners by Arpaio, and given the deaths of individuals in Maricopa County custody due to deliberate denial of medical care, Joe deserves anything happens to him in prison.  Which won't be anything, because he'll no doubt be serving his time in a powder-puff prison, not a real prison.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on August 23, 2017, 12:06:22 am
Every single day there is something with his administration, and not something small, major things.  Some days more than one.

I was just watching CNN and Don Lemon paused for a moment when thinking of the word to describe Trump's speech and his guest said 'rant' which was very fitting. 

I was talking to my mom earlier saying what a ****-show this administration is and how I've never seen anything like it.  She said she's 70 and she's never seen anything like it either.  Even Nixon she said was one issue and long-standing, it wasn't the way this administration is crumbling every day.

Firing everyone around him, bringing in all his kids, ranting about starting nuclear wars, praising the 'good' nazis, personally profiting off playing golf and blowing through the secret service budget by August, wanting to see himself depicted in good light as a briefing while not caring about actual intelligence briefings... it's all so surreal.

It makes George Bush and his Iraqi genocide seem so tame.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 23, 2017, 06:41:20 am
Most of it is bullshit though.  He can't seem to actually do anything.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 23, 2017, 11:36:54 am
Trump is a narcissist, and the reporter who got it best on MSNBC said that really, all Trump cares about is the applause. He'll say and do whatever that Trump base will cheer for. Being president is no fun. Locked in a boring building without a view and surrounded by boring people trying to get him to work? Who needs that when he can be out in front of cheering crowds. He likes running for president. He doesn't like being president. I would not be surprised if he decided not to even run for re-election. His base would probably still show up to cheer him afterward anyway He'll be 75 by then. does he want to spend another boring four years in a building which is practically a slum dwelling? The toilet fixtures aren't even gold, for Christ's sakes!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 23, 2017, 11:43:15 am
Most of it is bullshit though.  He can't seem to actually do anything.

And since he and MCConnell aren't on speaking terms he won't get much done without senate support.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 23, 2017, 11:56:53 am
Has he actually done anything he said he's gonna do in order for us to be worried about NAFTA?
Well, he did withdraw the U.S. from the TPP. Granted the history was a bit different... NAFTA is a long-established trade agreement and TPP hadn't been implemented yet, but it shows a willingness to walk away from trade agreements.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 23, 2017, 01:44:26 pm
Well Donald stuck pretty close to his teleprompter during today's speech. I would imagine he was strongly advised not to go all wonky in front of a room full of veterans.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on August 23, 2017, 04:35:35 pm
Did the "blacks for Trump" guy catch your eye yesterday?  He totally did mine and I wondered what's wrong with him.  It turns out, plenty.  He's a nutjob.

http://www.salon.com/2016/10/27/that-blacks-for-trump-guy-at-donald-trumps-rallies-is-even-weirder-than-you-think/

ETA, it's funny, as a minority I've had politicians want to use images with me in marketing (while sidelining my white husband), so I know they all do it, but seriously?  This is the best they could come up with for the directly-behind-the-president angle?  Just sad.

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 23, 2017, 04:47:16 pm
Did the "blacks for Trump" guy catch your eye yesterday?  He totally did mine and I wondered what's wrong with him.  It turns out, plenty.  He's a nutjob.

http://www.salon.com/2016/10/27/that-blacks-for-trump-guy-at-donald-trumps-rallies-is-even-weirder-than-you-think/

ETA, it's funny, as a minority I've had politicians want to use images with me in marketing (while sidelining my white husband), so I know they all do it, but seriously?  This is the best they could come up with for the directly-behind-the-president angle?  Just sad.

Interesting. I had a feeling it had to be a put up job. Who the hell in their right mind, (especially a Black man) would stand upand hold a sign in support of a man who has demonstrated his racism multiple times.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on August 23, 2017, 05:11:04 pm
It's probable that the reason they're so desperate to put a black person in a visible position is to mend his racist image, but I can't believe his handlers haven't done their proper homework into the guy.

Having a sea of white faces (a la Paul Ryan) is honestly better than exploiting a mentally-disturbed individual as your token black guy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 23, 2017, 06:08:53 pm
It makes George Bush and his Iraqi genocide seem so tame.

Trump is a walking disaster, but to compare his failures with W. Bush is absolutely ridiculous.  Bush killed hundreds of thousands of people & destroyed nations based on lies.  It's an absolute joke that Bush & admin were never seriously investigated.

Where was the mainstream media when Bush & his cronies were doing such obviously horrible things?  Some of them hammered on Bush, like MSNBC and others, but nothing like how virtually every outlet not obviously rightwing piles on Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 23, 2017, 06:09:56 pm
Hey, guys! Let's split the AntiFa topic into a new thread.  I want to talk about what a **** senile imbecile the POTUS is.

Good idea.  Your idea so you get to start up the new thread cuz I'm lazy  :P
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 23, 2017, 06:46:37 pm
And since he and MCConnell aren't on speaking terms he won't get much done without senate support.
I read that today.  What an ass.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 24, 2017, 12:10:35 pm
Did the "blacks for Trump" guy catch your eye yesterday?  He totally did mine and I wondered what's wrong with him.  It turns out, plenty.  He's a nutjob.
They should have gotten him the same place they got their Asian trump supporters...

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/margaret-cho-arizona-republicans_us_599606fce4b0a2608a6b0a66
The Arizona Republican Party was caught in an eye roll-inducing gaffe this week when it mistakenly used a photo of outspoken comedian Margaret Cho to represent Asian Americans on its website.... The error is particularly laughable given Cho’s brand. The 48-year-old actress-comedian, who identifies as queer, has been an outspoken critic of President Donald Trump and the Republican party as a whole
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 24, 2017, 12:16:34 pm
Trump is a walking disaster, but to compare his failures with W. Bush is absolutely ridiculous.  Bush killed hundreds of thousands of people & destroyed nations based on lies.  It's an absolute joke that Bush & admin were never seriously investigated.
I say this as someone who initially supported the Iraq invasion. (I felt that, even without Bush's lies, there was enough justification to support an invasion. Remember, the alternative to the war would have been Saddam continuing in power, a person who also racked up a pretty substantial body count over the years.)...

Give it time. Bush may have made mistakes in Iraq, but at least there was some justification to the actions. Trump is basically stumbling around blindly. If Trump doesn't start any wars, it won't be because of any talent or ability on his part, it will either be due to dumb luck, or others stepping in to prevent him from doing something foolish.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 24, 2017, 12:25:29 pm
(https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/silver-approval-08241.png?w=575&h=495&quality=90&strip=info)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 24, 2017, 12:32:53 pm
I say this as someone who initially supported the Iraq invasion. (I felt that, even without Bush's lies, there was enough justification to support an invasion. Remember, the alternative to the war would have been Saddam continuing in power, a person who also racked up a pretty substantial body count over the years.)...

Give it time. Bush may have made mistakes in Iraq, but at least there was some justification to the actions. Trump is basically stumbling around blindly. If Trump doesn't start any wars, it won't be because of any talent or ability on his part, it will either be due to dumb luck, or others stepping in to prevent him from doing something foolish.

I would disagree somewhat on Iraq, Bush's justification for the invasion was WMD, and the UN personnel knew damn he had none, and none of course were found hence the ICC declaring the invasion criminal. As one experienced American weapons inspector associated with the UN put it, "we know he used to have them because we have the receipts, but he gave them all up during the previous inspection"
I totally agree on Trump. James Clapper's recent comments about Trump's wild gyrations were especially chilling when he focused on his access to the nuclear codes. I'm old enough to vaguely remember that doomsday clock thing and I hate the idea of going back there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 24, 2017, 01:10:56 pm
I would disagree somewhat on Iraq, Bush's justification for the invasion was WMD, and the UN personnel knew damn he had none, and none of course were found hence the ICC declaring the invasion criminal. As one experienced American weapons inspector associated with the UN put it, "we know he used to have them because we have the receipts, but he gave them all up during the previous inspection"
At the risk of derailing the thread... I never said the invasion was justified due to what Bush said. There were other issues going on... Saddam's continued support of terrorism (e.g. payments to the families of suicide bombers), continued suppression of his own people (the latest was his actions against the Marsh Arabs, which continued right up until the invasion, so it wasn't some long-past event.)

As for the WMD, keep in mind that at the time the argument by those involved usually was not "We know he doesn't have them". The argument was "Give us more time". (And Saddam wasn't fully complying with the demands of the weapons inspectors. Basically he was bluffing, and ended up getting caught on it.)

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I totally agree on Trump. James Clapper's recent comments about Trump's wild gyrations were especially chilling when he focused on his access to the nuclear codes. I'm old enough to vaguely remember that doomsday clock thing and I hate the idea of going back there.
Someone suggested increasing the length of the nuclear launch codes to over 140 characters so Trump couldn't accidentally tweet them out.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 24, 2017, 01:35:29 pm
At the risk of derailing the thread... I never said the invasion was justified due to what Bush said. There were other issues going on... Saddam's continued support of terrorism (e.g. payments to the families of suicide bombers), continued suppression of his own people (the latest was his actions against the Marsh Arabs, which continued right up until the invasion, so it wasn't some long-past event.)

As for the WMD, keep in mind that at the time the argument by those involved usually was not "We know he doesn't have them". The argument was "Give us more time". (And Saddam wasn't fully complying with the demands of the weapons inspectors. Basically he was bluffing, and ended up getting caught on it.)

Not according to what some highly experienced UN weapons inspectors told me over dinner one evening in Basrah.

Someone suggested increasing the length of the nuclear launch codes to over 140 characters so Trump couldn't accidentally tweet them out.
I never thought of that, but what the hell, it might just work.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 24, 2017, 10:18:03 pm
And if he shuts down the government over not getting funding for his stupid **** wall, and the Dow craters and I lose money in my measly portfolio, I'm going to go to Washington and kick doofus right in the arse.

I''l probably have to stand in line.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 25, 2017, 09:58:56 am
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/25/politics/donald-trump-hurricane-harvey-natural-disaster-response-test/index.html

Here it comes.  The test of both the presidency and the moral character of the country, which are both heavily favoured to fail.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 25, 2017, 02:05:13 pm
And if he shuts down the government over not getting funding for his stupid **** wall, and the Dow craters and I lose money in my measly portfolio, I'm going to go to Washington and kick doofus right in the arse.
I don't know how to tell you this, but the Dow is probably going to fall anyways.

While Trump likes to take credit for the recent rise in stock prices, the fact is the economy had already been improving under Obama (which is probably the main reason for the increase in the Dow.)

But between Trump's protectionist policies, and his inability to pass any legislation, you're probably going to see the economy falter. Plus, elimination of financial regulations will give us a bubble similar to the one pre-2008.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 25, 2017, 02:15:09 pm
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/25/politics/donald-trump-hurricane-harvey-natural-disaster-response-test/index.html

Here it comes.  The test of both the presidency and the moral character of the country, which are both heavily favoured to fail.
Don't worry... the hurricane is being reported on by CNN, so I'm sure Trump will be sure to label it "Fake News".

"Its a chinese hoax! Besides, its all Obama's fault!"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 25, 2017, 02:41:59 pm
As Nero fiddled while Rome burned, so Trump will likely be swinging a golf club at Camp David while Texas floods.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 25, 2017, 10:56:18 pm
Trump pardons Arpaio, who is nothing more than a racist redneck **** who should be in jail, because the current focus is on the the storm coming ashore in Texas. Can you scumbag approving scumbag?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 25, 2017, 11:36:40 pm
He's having a big rally in Phoenix, and there are rampant rumours that he might pardon America's Toughest Sheriff, Joe Arpaio.  And as one of Trump's biggest supporters, I wouldn't be surprised if America's Biggest **** did indeed get a pardon.

America's Dumbest Shitbag is due to face jail time for willfully defying court rulings regarding racial profiling. This is pretty much like convicting Al Capone of tax evasion, or convicting Charles Manson of loitering.  Arpaio is a human **** stain. I think prison violence and prison **** are reprehensible and I normally wouldn't wish them on anyone. But given the humiliation and cruelty deliberately inflicted on prisoners by Arpaio, and given the deaths of individuals in Maricopa County custody due to deliberate denial of medical care, Joe deserves anything happens to him in prison.  Which won't be anything, because he'll no doubt be serving his time in a powder-puff prison, not a real prison.

Well he actually did it.

Arpaio is a piece of dog ****.

Maricopa County had hundreds of **** kits that never got tested because Sheriff Joe blew too much money chasing Obama birth certificate conspiracy idiocy.  Maricopa County had prisoners who died in custody because Sheriff Joe didn't want to provide medical care to prisoners because "jail is supposed to be tough."

Sheriff Joe is an authoritarian thug, and I guess given Trump's hard-on for other authoritarian thugs like Putin and Dutarte, I guess it was obvious that Trump would pardon a piece of crap like that.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 25, 2017, 11:49:38 pm
Meanwhile, Actual Nazi Sebastian Gorka has resigned from the Trump administration.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/08/25/breaking-sebastian-gorka-resigns-from-trump-administration/

Actual Nazi Sebastian Gorka wrote:

Quote
“[G]iven recent events, it is clear to me that forces that do not support the MAGA promise are – for now – ascendant within the White House,” Gorka wrote. “As a result, the best and most effective way I can support you, Mr. President, is from outside the People’s House.”

“Regrettably, outside of yourself, the individuals who most embodied and represented the policies that will ‘Make America Great Again,’ have been internally countered, systematically removed, or undermined in recent months. This was made patently obvious as I read the text of your speech on Afghanistan this week…

“The fact that those who drafted and approved the speech removed any mention of Radical Islam or radical Islamic terrorism proves that a crucial element of your presidential campaign has been lost…

“Just as worrying, when discussing our future actions in the region, the speech listed operational objectives without ever defining the strategic victory conditions we are fighting for. This omission should seriously disturb any national security professional, and any American who is unsatisfied with the last 16 years of disastrous policy decisions which have led to thousands of Americans killed and trillions of taxpayer dollars spent in ways that have not brought security or victory.”

Reading between the lines, it seems likely that Actual Nazi Sebastian Gorka is disappointed that alt-rightists and Trumptards like Steve Bannon, The Mooch, and similar have been kicked out of the administration by John Kelly and the Republican establishment (or "globalist cucks", as the alt-right refers to them.)

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 26, 2017, 06:46:32 am
Well he actually did it.

Arpaio is a piece of dog ****.

Maricopa County had hundreds of **** kits that never got tested because Sheriff Joe blew too much money chasing Obama birth certificate conspiracy idiocy.  Maricopa County had prisoners who died in custody because Sheriff Joe didn't want to provide medical care to prisoners because "jail is supposed to be tough."

Sheriff Joe is an authoritarian thug, and I guess given Trump's hard-on for other authoritarian thugs like Putin and Dutarte, I guess it was obvious that Trump would pardon a piece of crap like that.


 -k
This fucker literally set up a tent city in the middle of the desert for Latinos and bragged that it was a concentration camp.

There's also at least 32 documented cases of child molestation that he didn't pursue because the kids were Latino.

Trump just set the precedent that cops can violate the constitution with impunity. I hope Arpaio realizes that a pardon results in a guilty verdict that cannot be overturned and in America that opens him up to civil lawsuits.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 26, 2017, 12:20:20 pm
Reading between the lines, it seems likely that Actual Nazi Sebastian Gorka is disappointed that alt-rightists and Trumptards like Steve Bannon, The Mooch, and similar have been kicked out of the administration by John Kelly and the Republican establishment (or "globalist cucks", as the alt-right refers to them.)

So it turns out that Actual Nazi Sebastian Gorka was fired before his so-called "resignation".

Gorka: "You can't fire me! I quit!"

Kelly: "You can't quit, you don't work here."

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 26, 2017, 01:57:33 pm
So while all eyes were focused on the storm raging into Texas, Trump uses the opportunity to kick out his blowhard buddy Gorka, pardon his convicted felon/racist buddy Arpaio, and sign off on a ban on transgender military recruits. But I'm sure he enjoyed his golf outing up at Camp David.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on August 26, 2017, 02:38:54 pm
This fucker literally set up a tent city in the middle of the desert for Latinos and bragged that it was a concentration camp.

There's also at least 32 documented cases of child molestation that he didn't pursue because the kids were Latino.

Trump just set the precedent that cops can violate the constitution with impunity. I hope Arpaio realizes that a pardon results in a guilty verdict that cannot be overturned and in America that opens him up to civil lawsuits.

On Bill Maher last night they were saying that it's not really about Arpaio but he's sending a message to everyone in the Russian collusion that he'll bail them out even if they get convicted of anything.  It kinda makes sense.

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 27, 2017, 11:55:43 am
On Bill Maher last night they were saying that it's not really about Arpaio but he's sending a message to everyone in the Russian collusion that he'll bail them out even if they get convicted of anything.  It kinda makes sense.

Yeah. The liberal media is rubbing its hands with glee thinking Mueuller will be able to rid them of Trump, but I'm not at all confident. One of the primary ways the feds investigate complicated financial crimes is by getting enough evidence to convict one guy, then getting him to rat on the rest. That's not going to work when the head rat can simply wave his finger and grant them all immunity. Which means, since nobody is likely to talk, that Mueller has to find actual, direct evidence of things which are rarely written down.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 27, 2017, 11:58:56 am
I doubt the Republicans would do anything if he fired "Mueuller".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 27, 2017, 12:07:28 pm
I doubt the Republicans would do anything if he fired "Mueuller".

Except he can't fire mueller, that's the job of the AG, and the current one has recused himself. so Trump would have to fire him, and the next in line has also said he wouldn't fire mueller. So Trump would have to do a lot of firing to get to meuller. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 27, 2017, 01:11:50 pm
On Bill Maher last night they were saying that it's not really about Arpaio but he's sending a message to everyone in the Russian collusion that he'll bail them out even if they get convicted of anything.  It kinda makes sense.

I disagree. If you're looking at it that way, you're not thinking like Trump.  For Trump, it's definitely about Arpaio.

First off, Arpaio is his buddy. They've been personal friends for years. Second, Arpaio is the personification of Trump's "build the wall" rhetoric. As far as Trump and the Trumptard base are concerned, Arpaio is a hero, a patriot fighting back against the brown horde that's taking over the country. They think that Arpaio was, as Trump put it last week, "convicted for doing his job."  It's disgusting, but that's what they think.

Trump has felt strongly about this all along.  Trump wanted Jeff Sessions to get the case thrown out of court.  This matters to Trump personally, and it matters to the core Trump voter. This pardon is wildly popular with the Trumptard voter base.

Paul Manafort or Michael Flynn, on the other hand?  They don't matter to the Trumptards.  The only people who'd really support a pardon for Manafort or Flynn are Trump himself and the immediate families of Flynn and Manafort.  Pardoning Russian double-agents would be a lot harder to sell to the voting public than pardoning an 85 year old "patriot".  The core Trump voter might accept it, but I don't think anybody else would. And the Trumptards on their own don't have enough votes to win elections.  They need the support of the undecideds and the never-Hillary voters and the non-votes of the apathetic.

The pardon of Arpaio might hand seats in the House of Represenatives and an Arizona Senate seat to the Democrats, as latino voters will come out en-masse against the Republicans in the 2018 mid-terms elections.  Pardoning Russian conspirators would only worsen the situation for Republicans.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 28, 2017, 01:39:25 am
Trump hugging racist, convicted felon, so called lawman Arpaio. Could it get much sleazier?
Birds of a feather is about all you can deduce.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 28, 2017, 01:51:21 pm
I wonder if Trump will follow through with his threat to shut down the government if he doesn't get the funding for his stupid wall. That will be very "helpful" for the people in Texas who's homes have washed away due to Harvey, and the federal government closes up shop.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 28, 2017, 04:12:53 pm
Trump displays his ineptitude yet again just now. Why could he not display empathy for the people suffering from the storm in Texas without reading from a page with his finger going word by word, and sounding like a grade school public speaking event? Of course he dodged the very first question regarding if he still intnds to shut down the government while a lot of people are needing help.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 28, 2017, 05:56:27 pm
I don't appreciate dragging the US presidential shitshow into the Texas disaster, personally.  As with 9/11, and Katrina, the president has little to do with operations.  Ultimately he IS responsible for successes and failures but blaming him for most of it is just opportunism IMO.

Now if he does something stupid like shut down the government over the wall, and stops disaster relief well that would be easily attributable to him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 28, 2017, 06:30:56 pm
I don't appreciate dragging the US presidential shitshow into the Texas disaster, personally.  As with 9/11, and Katrina, the president has little to do with operations.  Ultimately he IS responsible for successes and failures but blaming him for most of it is just opportunism IMO.

Now if he does something stupid like shut down the government over the wall, and stops disaster relief well that would be easily attributable to him.
How about plans to cut FEMA funding in the upcoming budget? Granted, it is only a budget proposal and the effect wouldn't happen for another few years (so it wouldn't impact the current hurricane relief work.) Still, its setting the table for big problems later on.

http://time.com/money/4918458/trump-budget-targest-disaster-response/
When President Trump released his proposed budget earlier this year, it included cuts across the board — including hundreds of millions from programs that help Americans cope with disasters like Hurricane Harvey.

Or how about his roll-back of regulations regarding infrastructure (which again won't impact things immediately but will have a long term impact)?

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-revoked-obama-flood-protections-hurricane-harvey-texas-656050
As parts of Texas and Louisiana experience historic flooding related to Hurricane Harvey, the White House is defending President Donald Trump’s recent decision to revoke Obama-era flood risk regulations...The 2015 order established a federal flood risk management standard and said that for projects using federal funds, developers must take certain measures to assess the flood risk.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 28, 2017, 06:52:27 pm
How about plans to cut FEMA funding in the upcoming budget? Granted, it is only a budget proposal and the effect wouldn't happen for another few years (so it wouldn't impact the current hurricane relief work.) Still, its setting the table for big problems later on.

I read somewhere that FEMA doesn't do the actual relief.  And they make extra budget requests for disasters.  And it has nothing to do with today as you have acknowledged.

There is nothing from this president on the current state of affairs that I can see, and politicizing it won't win any points either.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 28, 2017, 07:34:38 pm
https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/902323654033371136
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 29, 2017, 12:02:35 pm
I read somewhere that FEMA doesn't do the actual relief.
Some of the things FEMA does:

- Helps train responders prior to any disasters
- Helps coordinate responses once the disasters hit
- Provides funding for areas to help rebuild

All of which require money (which Trump is cutting back on).

Quote
And they make extra budget requests for disasters.
Some of the functionality that FEMA is involved with (such as training) is an on-going thing. You need to do it BEFORE any disaster hits.

Quote
And it has nothing to do with today as you have acknowledged.
True. But I don't think its too out of line to remind people "You know that great way FEMA handled this disaster? Well, if Trump has his way it won't happen again".

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 30, 2017, 05:02:50 pm
I notice Trump stuck to his teleprompter today. I guess the grown ups with him reminded him he is not on a campaign tour, and they possibly he should mention at least a few words about the victims who have lost so much to this wicked storm. "USA and POTUS" hats along with Melania's super high heels gives further confirmation of his character.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 30, 2017, 05:23:29 pm
I wonder if he spoke to ANYBODY in congress about his tax plan yet...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 30, 2017, 07:13:48 pm
I wonder if he spoke to ANYBODY in congress about his tax plan yet...

I think he's simply waiting for congress to give it to him. He doesn't seem to have any actual plans, just likes to make comments to appease his base, and then hopes like hell someone will come up with an idea. So far not much to show.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 31, 2017, 09:44:10 am
I think he's simply waiting for congress to give it to him. He doesn't seem to have any actual plans, just likes to make comments to appease his base, and then hopes like hell someone will come up with an idea. So far not much to show.
I remember reading how Trump's budget plans are put together....His advisors go through his previous speeches, tweets and interviews for any comments the president may have made. They then put together actual numbers based on his (more or less) random comments. I suspect his tax plans will be similar.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 31, 2017, 10:27:53 am
I remember reading how Trump's budget plans are put together....His advisors go through his previous speeches, tweets and interviews for any comments the president may have made. They then put together actual numbers based on his (more or less) random comments. I suspect his tax plans will be similar.

They must be working day and night to get through all those tweets.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 02, 2017, 10:34:33 am
Trump orders 3 Russian posts closed in the US and the one in San Francisco has smoke coming out of the chimney for the first time, and on the hottest day of the year so far. What's being burned I wonder.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-russia-consulate-20170901-story.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 02, 2017, 11:00:30 am
Trump orders 3 Russian posts closed in the US and the one in San Francisco has smoke coming out of the chimney for the first time, and on the hottest day of the year so far. What's being burned I wonder.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-russia-consulate-20170901-story.html

The FBI has been pushing for the San Francisco consulate to be closed for decades. It's basically a center for espionage against US high technology and defense contractors.

It's worth noting that according to Bloomberg news the Trump administration made a back channel offer to Russia to give them back those seized properties in exchange for a few restrictions on their activities. The Russians responded by tossing out hundreds of US diplomats.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 02, 2017, 09:27:44 pm
Trump caught in yet another lie over his claim that Obama tapped his phones at Trump Tower. How far down the rabbit hole does his credibility have to descend before the wing nut right wingers who voted for him sit up and take notice?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/02/politics/justice-department-trump-tower-wiretap/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 04, 2017, 08:25:46 am
Trump wants to end DACA but it's not a done deal.  It would be good to see this fail, as healthcare has. 

It does feel, though, that the unhinged element of Trump has been somewhat dampered by Kelly's running of the office.  We haven't had attacks on Morning Joe or random bullshit.  Then again, that may mean we're due.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 04, 2017, 08:44:52 am
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-daca/trump-to-scrap-protection-for-dreamers-give-congress-six-months-to-fix-idUSKCN1BF02F

More details - he's given it to congress to 'fix', but with most top Republicans against scrapping DACA, and Trump's general hands-off policy/animosity towards congressional Republicans it may be watered down or come to nothing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 04, 2017, 11:56:51 am
Trump wants to end DACA but it's not a done deal.  It would be good to see this fail, as healthcare has. 

It does feel, though, that the unhinged element of Trump has been somewhat dampered by Kelly's running of the office.  We haven't had attacks on Morning Joe or random bullshit.  Then again, that may mean we're due.

I would put my money on "we're due". Trump seems to be able to control his anger so long when he's criticized or snubbed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 04, 2017, 02:03:25 pm
Speaking of money, here's yet another "brilliant " idea from Trump, he tweets this am that he is threatening to cut off all trade with anyone who does business with NK. Well there goes not only China, the US' largest trading partner, but also South Korea, India, Russia, and a number of others. Australia would also be hard hit. Trump brags about being an astute businessman and yet he seems bent on creating a global recession.
C'mon Mueller, get that obstruction case going so rhe US etal can be rid of this jerk.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/03/north-korea-bomb-trumps-trade-threat-to-china-not-seen-as-credible
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 04, 2017, 03:28:31 pm
Speaking of money, here's yet another "brilliant " idea from Trump, he tweets this am that he is threatening to cut off all trade with anyone who does business with NK. Well there goes not only China, the US' largest trading partner, but also South Korea, India, Russia, and a number of others. Australia would also be hard hit. Trump brags about being an astute businessman and yet he seems bent on creating a global recession.
C'mon Mueller, get that obstruction case going so rhe US etal can be rid of this jerk.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/03/north-korea-bomb-trumps-trade-threat-to-china-not-seen-as-credible

If we're not going to militarily attack North Korea, and I don't think the odds are good of doing so, the only way of reigning them in is to deprive them of the money needed to pay for Kim's fancy flying toys. China stands in the way of that. It has been paying lip service to western demands on North Korea for decades while secretly keeping fat boy in business. They're more worried about a unified Korea on their border, or lots of North Korean refugees if Kim goes down than anything he does in terms of nuclear capability.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 04, 2017, 04:44:14 pm
If we're not going to militarily attack North Korea, and I don't think the odds are good of doing so, the only way of reigning them in is to deprive them of the money needed to pay for Kim's fancy flying toys. China stands in the way of that. It has been paying lip service to western demands on North Korea for decades while secretly keeping fat boy in business. They're more worried about a unified Korea on their border, or lots of North Korean refugees if Kim goes down than anything he does in terms of nuclear capability.

Umm, Trump stopping trade with China won't stop China from doing business with NK. Pissing off China, South Korea and the others would only serve to isolate the US financially in the same way Trump has done politically. Another type of "wall" I suppose?

I wish I had your confidence that Trump won't try to rain down some of his "fire and fury" on Kim.

Perhaps cooler heads will keep the "nuclear football" out of Trump's reach as they did with Nixon in his final days in office. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on September 04, 2017, 06:07:52 pm
Just a reminder - proper names for world leaders.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 05, 2017, 12:11:57 pm
Just a reminder - proper names for world leaders.
Is calling the U.S. president the "racist orangtan" considered a proper name? Sounds pretty proper to me.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on September 05, 2017, 12:12:42 pm
Is calling the U.S. president the "racist orangtan" considered a proper name? Sounds pretty proper to me.

It may fit, but I don't think it's proper.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 05, 2017, 02:43:09 pm
Umm, Trump stopping trade with China won't stop China from doing business with NK. Pissing off China, South Korea and the others would only serve to isolate the US financially in the same way Trump has done politically. Another type of "wall" I suppose?

It's a matter of making it too unprofitable for China. They're not going to isolate North Korea if you don't pressure them. North Korea, as an example, pumps billions in laundered cash through Chinese banks. The US is talking about banning the four big ones from operating in the US. That's not stopping Chinese exports, that's specifically harming those doing business with North Korea. And let's face it, China has been violating every trade treaty and law for decades. The US can quite reasonably pick and choose the ones they want to start enforcing until China finally decides to arrange for the fat boy to fall off a cliff or something, and replaces him with someone more stable.

Quote
I wish I had your confidence that Trump won't try to rain down some of his "fire and fury" on Kim.

I wish I had the confidence you seem to think I had in that.

He needs to be given options which seems like they can achieve something useful (even if they don't). Cracking down on Chinese banks, as an example, combined with a renewed effort towards a missile defense shield, might do for that.

I already owned Raytheon and Harris stock. I bought Lockheed Martin today - and more gold.
I foresee much more money going into anti-missile systems.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 06, 2017, 03:05:48 pm
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/06/politics/trump-deal-democrats-republicans/index.html

Trump deals with Democrats !  Debt ceiling raised for 3 months ?  Interesting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 06, 2017, 08:00:07 pm
Although I still dislike him intensely, this shows the potential he has... as an outsider.  Without knowing much of the details, looks good.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 06, 2017, 08:42:39 pm
He flails around in random directions and happens to hit the target, and this is success? 

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 06, 2017, 08:44:31 pm
He flails around in random directions and happens to hit the target, and this is success?
Yup.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 07, 2017, 10:40:28 am
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/06/politics/trump-deal-democrats-republicans/index.html

Trump deals with Democrats !  Debt ceiling raised for 3 months ?  Interesting.
Although I still dislike him intensely, this shows the potential he has... as an outsider.  Without knowing much of the details, looks good.
At this point, we don't know what exactly that deal means. In the long run, it may harm the republicans... GOP leaders wanted the debt ceiling raised for a longer period of time (6-18 months). The shorter time period will mean that they will have to revisit the issue by the end of the year, and it may potentially cause problems when midterm elections come around.

The options are:

- It was a genuine attempt by Trump to build bridges with the Democrats, realizing that he may need at least a few of their votes to pass legislation later on

- It is a sign of incompetence on the part of Trump, giving the Democrats something of value, not realizing it could harm the republicans in the future

- Trump was attempting to torment the republicans in Congress whom he often sees as disloyal... the message being "do what I say or I will destroy the party"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 07, 2017, 12:48:11 pm
He had no choice but to make a deal with one side or the other in order to get disaster money. He liked the Democrat conditions better than the Republican conditions. Plus he hates McConnell and Ryan, which can't make him all bad.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on September 07, 2017, 01:28:30 pm
He had no choice but to make a deal with one side or the other in order to get disaster money. He liked the Democrat conditions better than the Republican conditions. Plus he hates McConnell and Ryan, which can't make him all bad.

Au contraire, IMO.  These days McConnell and Ryan are looking more and more sane which does make him bad.

You know things are rough when Paul Ryan thinks your DACA stance is cruel and goes too far.

I hate him even more for making me find a tiny bit of respect for Paul Ryan.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 07, 2017, 01:43:03 pm
Ryan is pissed because Trump has forced Congress to deal with the DACA mess. I have no respect for either of them.

The Freedom Caucus of the GOP threatened to oppose any disaster relief that was coupled to a debt ceiling hike. Right now the united Democrats are more effective than the fractured Republicans when it comes to dealing with a President who really has no loyalty to anyone.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 07, 2017, 02:13:33 pm
Au contraire, IMO.  These days McConnell and Ryan are looking more and more sane which does make him bad.
More and more sane compared to what?

Remember, McConnell was the one who masterminded the creation of a Senate health care plan without any sort of input, then got shocked when it didn't pass. And Ryan also had the house pass it's health care bill despite the fact it didn't really stand a chance of getting through the senate.

Both of them are more than willing to pay lip service on some issues (e.g. racism), but when rubber meets road, they will resort to their little political games.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on September 07, 2017, 03:15:11 pm
More and more sane compared to what?

Remember, McConnell was the one who masterminded the creation of a Senate health care plan without any sort of input, then got shocked when it didn't pass. And Ryan also had the house pass it's health care bill despite the fact it didn't really stand a chance of getting through the senate.

Both of them are more than willing to pay lip service on some issues (e.g. racism), but when rubber meets road, they will resort to their little political games.

Oh I don't disagree.  They're both incredibly vile, that's why when they come out sounding compassionate I can't help but lose even *more* respect for Trump. 

And yes, compared to Trump they're worse.  It takes a special kind of maggot to make Paul Ryan look human.  Wouldn't you agree?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 07, 2017, 05:41:29 pm
Oh I don't disagree.  They're both incredibly vile, that's why when they come out sounding compassionate I can't help but lose even *more* respect for Trump. 



The GOP has always whined that what Obama did regarding DACA wasn't constitutional. Now they will have to do something constructive rather than just ****. Poor Paul, poor Mitch, my heart bleed for them. Donald? He is just kicking the issue to someone else which is what he does.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 12, 2017, 03:37:22 pm
Trump continues to display not only his bad judgement by welcoming with open arms to the white house, the president of Malaysia, who is quite clearly a thief, but also his disregard for the US constitution, specifically the emoluments clause by having Najib Razak stay at Trump hotel during his visit.

Ignoring the emoluments clause is impeachment material. C'mon congress!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4877072/Trump-meeting-Malaysian-prime-minister-scrutiny.html
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 12, 2017, 10:25:39 pm
Hajib Razmak?  Sounds like a Muslim.  Is Trump connected to the Muslim Brotherhood?  Maybe Someone will conjure up another fake cheque as evidence!

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 12, 2017, 10:39:15 pm
So Steve Bannon did an interview with Charlie Rose last weekend. It was a remarkable interview for at least 3 reasons.

First reason: despite TV makeup and wardrobe, Bannon still managed to look like a bleary-eyed drunk who woke up in a pool of his own sweat.

Second reason: Bannon declared firing James Comey to be "the biggest political mistake in modern history."

Third reason: Bannon explicitly stated that his mission now that he's back at Breitbart is to fight on Trump's behalf.  Has any media outlet ever come out and said so explicitly that they're propaganda?  Has Pravda?  Has Iran's Press.TV, or whatever it's called? Has Russia Today? Pyongyang Today? Anything?

Will the fact that Bannon has explicitly said that they're propaganda dissuade Trumptards from mistaking Breitpravda for real news?  Don't bet on it!   duurrrrrrr, librul bias!

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 12, 2017, 11:15:08 pm
Trump espouses that he and his family are proud to be non drinkers, then he hires a scummy **** tank like Bannon to be his chief advisor, then they have a fight and Bannon gets fired, then he goes on TV to criticize Trump, then he changes his tune to say he will support Trump with his fake news site Breitbart. How the hell does any sane person make heads or tails out of this ricocheting at rather high levels?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 13, 2017, 09:13:01 am
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/10/is-trump-ending-the-american-era/537888/?utm_source=atlfb

A piece on the wilful decline in American influence.

Quote
In short, foreign leaders may consider Trump alarming, but they do not consider him serious. They may think they can use him, but they know they cannot rely on him. They look at his plans to slash the State Department’s ranks and its budget—the latter by about 30 percent—and draw conclusions about his interest in traditional diplomacy. And so, already, they have begun to reshape alliances and reconfigure the networks that make up the global economy, bypassing the United States and diminishing its standing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 13, 2017, 11:34:53 am
Quite the read. Depressing but hard to dispute.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 13, 2017, 09:39:55 pm
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/10/is-trump-ending-the-american-era/537888/?utm_source=atlfb

A piece on the wilful decline in American influence.
And that's exactly what Putin wants.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 15, 2017, 12:28:46 pm
We didn't even cover the DACA flip-flop.  Things that would have been shocking week 1 are now just passing clownisms...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 15, 2017, 06:31:23 pm
We didn't even cover the DACA flip-flop.  Things that would have been shocking week 1 are now just passing clownisms...

I'm not sure that's a big flip flop. He's been making noises about how he 'loves' the dreamers for some time. He reversed Obama's decree under pressure from many in the party who said it was unconstitutional. I think something like 11 states were going to sue the federal government if they didn't, and Jeff Sessions was saying it was clearly unconstitutional.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 16, 2017, 07:37:31 am
Trump shoves his head up his arse yet again with a couple of ill advised tweets. Will he ever get it?

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/parsons-green-terror-attack-donald-trump-hypocritical-underground-theresa-may-twitter-self-serving-a7949831.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 16, 2017, 07:56:53 am
I'm not sure that's a big flip flop. He's been making noises about how he 'loves' the dreamers for some time. He reversed Obama's decree under pressure from many in the party who said it was unconstitutional. I think something like 11 states were going to sue the federal government if they didn't, and Jeff Sessions was saying it was clearly unconstitutional.

not a flip flop? Apparently you weren't listening during his campaign.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 18, 2017, 01:39:07 pm
So Trump is on the verge of giving what will be the most important speech of his tenure, namely addressing the UNGA so how does he precede that event? Well he tweets out a fake video of him hitting a golf ball which knocks Hillary over as she's boarding her plane, nick names the NK leader "rocketman", and uses his initial meeting with a few of the seated UN leaders to brag about his hotel which is nearby.

The next potential for disaster is of course will he stay focused on the teleprompter during his speech or will he wander off into lala land and start complaining that the only reason Hillary won the popular vote is because of "millions" of illegal voters, or how many "millions" of people attended his inauguration, etc., etc.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 18, 2017, 05:18:35 pm
...Well he tweets out a fake video of him hitting a golf ball which knocks Hillary...
There were 2 major problems with that tweet (well, apart from the pettiness):

- The tweet is seen by many to be mocking the problem of violence against women. (And consider how much Trump and his supporters complained when Kathy Griffin posed with a severed head which looked like Trump's.) So, encouraging violence is wrong... unless its Trump himself doing it.

- The tweet was actually a retweet posted in the account of an account noted for bigotry. You would think that after the Trump campaign was accused of being anti-semetic when they posted a picture of Clinton with a star of david (again something taken from the account known for bigotry) that they would check the source a little bit more carefully.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/aliciamelvillesmith/trump-golf-ball-rt
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 18, 2017, 08:40:20 pm
There were 2 major problems with that tweet (well, apart from the pettiness):

- The tweet is seen by many to be mocking the problem of violence against women. (And consider how much Trump and his supporters complained when Kathy Griffin posed with a severed head which looked like Trump's.) So, encouraging violence is wrong... unless its Trump himself doing it.

- The tweet was actually a retweet posted in the account of an account noted for bigotry. You would think that after the Trump campaign was accused of being anti-semetic when they posted a picture of Clinton with a star of david (again something taken from the account known for bigotry) that they would check the source a little bit more carefully.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/aliciamelvillesmith/trump-golf-ball-rt

Yes you're right, the pettiness of such a stupid tweet is the least amount of concern one should have about this. There are knuckleheads who support Trump who will giggle at this bullshit and not understand that it is promoting violence, and they are very likely the people who engage in such violence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 18, 2017, 08:54:39 pm
And now Sean Spicer appears on SNL and makes a joke of himself about how he lied at the behest of his boss. Is integrity in American politics gone forever?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 19, 2017, 09:46:03 am
And now Sean Spicer appears on SNL and makes a joke of himself about how he lied at the behest of his boss. Is integrity in American politics gone forever?
He was on the Emmy's.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 19, 2017, 08:47:29 pm
Nice to see Trump trying to deescalate things at the UN by vowing to "totally destroy" N. Korea in order to protect US or allies.

On the other hand Obama wouldn't and didn't really do anything to stop N Korea getting these nukes. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on September 19, 2017, 09:29:08 pm
Nice to see Trump trying to deescalate things at the UN by vowing to "totally destroy" N. Korea in order to protect US or allies.
I read recently how NK can still import as much oil as it needs thanks to China and Russia. It is clear that that China a Russia don't really care that NK has nukes and are deliberately exacerbating the situation for political purposes. If this escalates a big part of the blame has to go to China and Russia.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 19, 2017, 11:00:01 pm
I read recently how NK can still import as much oil as it needs thanks to China and Russia. It is clear that that China a Russia don't really care that NK has nukes and are deliberately exacerbating the situation for political purposes. If this escalates a big part of the blame has to go to China and Russia.

Trump standing up at the UNGA and saying he would blow away NK and it's 25 million people puts the load on Donny. Sorry, but your buddy just made a complete ass of himself in front of the world.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on September 20, 2017, 12:04:46 am
I read recently how NK can still import as much oil as it needs thanks to China and Russia. It is clear that that China a Russia don't really care that NK has nukes and are deliberately exacerbating the situation for political purposes. If this escalates a big part of the blame has to go to China and Russia.
Because there is some requirement that Russia and China should also put America first?   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 20, 2017, 05:46:48 am
Because there is some requirement that Russia and China should also put America first?

No- because the risk of nuclear war is the highest it's been in over 50 years, as evidenced in China and Russa's UN votes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on September 20, 2017, 09:00:59 am
No- because the risk of nuclear war is the highest it's been in over 50 years, as evidenced in China and Russa's UN votes.

Yes, they voted for the toughest sanctions ever against a country, but didn't go as far as the States wanted, right?   They had some concern that what the States wanted could result in rash behavior by N Korea, but probably even more concerning - from their point of view - is the risk that N Korea could collapse completely and they"d end up with a bunch of refugees and more American military in the area.   So they are not putting America first, and possibly for good reason. 

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 20, 2017, 09:25:25 am
Has Trump climbed a tree he can't get down. The US military policy regarding Korea and it's other Asian allies hasn't changed since 1950, all he has done is change the rhetoric to the fat boy's sand box level. He will be on his own with Israel when it comes to Iran because none of his other allies support his policy on the nuclear agreement. George Shultz once said, if you have no policy, the temptation is to make a speech. Trump makes lots of speeches.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 20, 2017, 01:20:31 pm
Interesting juxtaposition just this am were Obama spoke in New York at the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation Goalkeepers on global health where he roundly criticized the Trump administration for their failures on healthcare, and a very few minutes later, Trump took to the podium in NY at the UN and spoke about Africa. It was day and night.

Obama spoke eloquently with barely an occasional glance at his notes, and he held your interest because he had something to say. Trump couldn't string two coherent sentences together without following his finger along the page as he read in a grade three primary school fashion, and it was boring as it was nothing but hyperbole.

A breath of fresh air and then a roomful of stagnant air. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on September 20, 2017, 03:45:18 pm
So they are not putting America first, and possibly for good reason.
The question is whether they really want to stop NK from getting ICBMs. By their actions the answer is clearly no - they are happy to see a crazy state get nuclear armed ICBMs as long as that crazy state is obsessed with the US. Their posturing in support of sanctions while blocking those sanctions that would really change the facts on the ground is pathetic and if this escalates they deserve a big part of the blame for sitting on the sidelines when they had the power to do more.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 20, 2017, 03:58:09 pm
Interesting juxtaposition just this am were Obama spoke in New York at the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation Goalkeepers on global health where he roundly criticized the Trump administration for their failures on healthcare, and a very few minutes later, Trump took to the podium in NY at the UN and spoke about Africa. It was day and night.

Obama spoke eloquently with barely an occasional glance at his notes, and he held your interest because he had something to say. Trump couldn't string two coherent sentences together without following his finger along the page as he read in a grade three primary school fashion, and it was boring as it was nothing but hyperbole.

A breath of fresh air and then a roomful of stagnant air.

And yet, despite his eloquence, Obama was a fumble-fingered incompetent in foreign policy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 20, 2017, 04:16:51 pm
And yet, despite his eloquence, Obama was a fumble-fingered incompetent in foreign policy.

Yeah, incompetent enough he managed a deal with Iran on Nukes, which now Trump will likely rip up so Iran can go back to making whatever they want without any prying eyes. Now that goes beyond incompetent and all the way to stupid.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 20, 2017, 09:04:55 pm
Trump couldn't even get it together enough while he was addressing African leaders, to pronounce the name of an African country called Namibia. He referred to it as Nambia a number of times during his silly speech. Now can any of you Trump supporters point out to the rest of us where Nambia is?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 21, 2017, 04:19:10 pm
A good description of Trump's speech to the UN, and yet his approval ratings have gone up apparently due to his handling of the NK situation. There must be some knuckleheads down there that like this "fire and fury" idea.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/trumps-un-speech-a-throwback-to-a-darker-world/article36308078/

Trump’s UN speech a throwback to a darker world
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 22, 2017, 11:57:05 am
A good description of Trump's speech to the UN, and yet his approval ratings have gone up apparently due to his handling of the NK situation. There must be some knuckleheads down there that like this "fire and fury" idea.


His approval rating has gone up because he reached across the aisle and started cutting deal with Democrats. Americans are heartily sick of the intransigence of the two political parties in failing to work together.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 22, 2017, 01:15:52 pm
His approval rating has gone up because he reached across the aisle and started cutting deal with Democrats. Americans are heartily sick of the intransigence of the two political parties in failing to work together.

His ratings actually went up because a lot of his followers like the "fire and fury" rhetoric, and because he got a few brownie points over how he dealt with the hurricane mess.
If you had heard John MCcain speaking today on his approach to the current healthcare proposal from the GOP you would not think there is much in the way of deal making going on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on September 22, 2017, 06:18:51 pm
And yet, despite his eloquence, Obama was a fumble-fingered incompetent in foreign policy.

Compared to Trump, Obama's foreign policy is nothing short of spectacular.  Faults and all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 22, 2017, 07:25:57 pm
And yet, despite his eloquence, Obama was a fumble-fingered incompetent in foreign policy.

One has to simply laugh at your comment. Obama's foreign policy brought a lot of soldiers out of Afghanistan and Iraq, he dealt with issues such as poverty, gun laws, unemployment, immigration, the criminal justice system, and even won a Nobel Prize. All the while he was snubbed by the right wingers in congress who didn't want to see any progress in case it might be attributed to the other side of the aisle.

Now let's look at what Trump has done.....you tell us.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 22, 2017, 09:34:25 pm
Compared to Trump, Obama's foreign policy is nothing short of spectacular.  Faults and all.

Wasn't Obama's foreign policy really just the same US interventionism that has been practiced pretty much non-stop since the 2nd world war? I mean, he framed it in more positive terms, but is there any substantive difference between Obama's policy towards Syria or other Middle East nations as compared with previous US administrations' meddling in the Middle East or Central America?   I mean, I like Obama, and I was skeptical at first but I think that overall he was pretty good... but are his Middle East policies *substantively* different from previous administrations?

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 22, 2017, 10:23:43 pm
Wasn't Obama's foreign policy really just the same US interventionism that has been practiced pretty much non-stop since the 2nd world war? I mean, he framed it in more positive terms, but is there any substantive difference between Obama's policy towards Syria or other Middle East nations as compared with previous US administrations' meddling in the Middle East or Central America?   I mean, I like Obama, and I was skeptical at first but I think that overall he was pretty good... but are his Middle East policies *substantively* different from previous administrations?

 -k

Well here's one glaring difference: the previous administration declared and illegal war (Iraq), and Obama retreated from the war. He may have done it too fast but that's a matter of opinion. The facts are the facts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 23, 2017, 10:17:25 am
One has to simply laugh at your comment. Obama's foreign policy brought a lot of soldiers out of Afghanistan and Iraq, he dealt with issues such as poverty, gun laws, unemployment, immigration, the criminal justice system, and even won a Nobel Prize. All the while he was snubbed by the right wingers in congress who didn't want to see any progress in case it might be attributed to the other side of the aisle.

Now let's look at what Trump has done.....you tell us.

What has the criminal justice system, unemployment, poverty or gun laws got to do with Obama's foreign policy? Yeah, he won a Nobel Prize, for being Black. He got it less than a year into his presidency and hadn't actually done ANYTHING of note other than being elected.

Obama took office with endless good will and delight from all America's allies. But they all quickly tired of his academic lecturing and indecisiveness. I won't say they mocked and held him in contempt as they do Trump, but they sure didn't like him much. America's closest allies felt much more distant by the time he left office, including Canada. For all that Obama was worshiped by the Canadian Left he basically **** slapped us whenever the opportunity arose. He wasn't any more friendly with the British, French, Germans, Israelis or third world allies.
Russian and Chinese influence thrived under Obama, and Islamic militarism expanded and spread.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 23, 2017, 11:35:46 am
What has the criminal justice system, unemployment, poverty or gun laws got to do with Obama's foreign policy? Yeah, he won a Nobel Prize, for being Black. He got it less than a year into his presidency and hadn't actually done ANYTHING of note other than being elected.

Obama took office with endless good will and delight from all America's allies. But they all quickly tired of his academic lecturing and indecisiveness. I won't say they mocked and held him in contempt as they do Trump, but they sure didn't like him much. America's closest allies felt much more distant by the time he left office, including Canada. For all that Obama was worshiped by the Canadian Left he basically **** slapped us whenever the opportunity arose. He wasn't any more friendly with the British, French, Germans, Israelis or third world allies.
Russian and Chinese influence thrived under Obama, and Islamic militarism expanded and spread.

Manning down wars in foreign countries has a fair bit to do with foreign policy in case you hadn't heard. The other issues he made gains in show he wasn't quite as incompetent as you might think. You did suggest though that he got his Nobel Prize simply because he was Black so I think we get where you're coming from. Again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on September 23, 2017, 12:27:37 pm
Wasn't Obama's foreign policy really just the same US interventionism that has been practiced pretty much non-stop since the 2nd world war? I mean, he framed it in more positive terms, but is there any substantive difference between Obama's policy towards Syria or other Middle East nations as compared with previous US administrations' meddling in the Middle East or Central America?   I mean, I like Obama, and I was skeptical at first but I think that overall he was pretty good... but are his Middle East policies *substantively* different from previous administrations?

 -k

When I compared Trump's foreign policy to Obama, I was talking about the all encompassing attitude towards the world, which is what to me foreign policy means (not just middle-east). 

Trump espouses the notion of American exceptionalism and not in a dignified way, but in a bellicose aggressive way.  His approach has been like a bully, like the way he's handled North Korea, Mexico, Iran deal, even allies and trade agreements. 

Obama, on the other hand, always considered the USA a part of the world;  maybe a leader, but just another player.  He was often criticized for NOT believing in American exceptionalism and although I don't know what he thinks, he certainly didn't lead the country as though he did.

Yes, there has always been an element of interference in the middle-east for the last 60 years.  Yes, he loved his drones and bombed the crap out of Syria but even on that he did not escalate or make up lies to invade countries, all he did was work with the mess that he inherited.

But again, that's a different topic.  As far as his overall foreign policy went, he was spectacular compared to Trump.  He was very much a diplomat, a word that is completely foreign to Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 23, 2017, 04:11:30 pm
As far as his overall foreign policy went, he was spectacular compared to Trump.

You realize what a low bar that is, right? I mean, which president could you NOT say the same of?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 23, 2017, 04:14:48 pm
Manning down wars in foreign countries has a fair bit to do with foreign policy in case you hadn't heard.

By following George Bush's withdrawal timeline in Iraq and keeping troops in Afghanistan?

Quote
The other issues he made gains in

Were what?

Quote
You did suggest though that he got his Nobel Prize simply because he was Black so I think we get where you're coming from. Again.

Reality. That's where I'm always coming from. You should visit sometime.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 24, 2017, 09:24:06 am
Donald Trump agrees with me, not the other way around. Just like to make that point up front.

The morning news shows are ababble with Trump's claim that NFL players who won't stand for the national anthem should be fired. All sorts of sports figures are indignantly protesting about that, but I'm gonna take a guess that when a poll comes out in the next couple of days it's going to show widespread agreement with Trump.

Which is a shame. Because what players and a few owners have done by castigating Trump on this issue is set up two sides. On the one side, is patriotism, the national anthem, the flag, and Donald Trump, and on the other side is them. That might be bullshit but that's how it's going to look. You're going to see more players kneeling during the national anthem now, and more anger from the fans, who were already angry enough to begin with.

Let me point out something these overpaid players don't seem to get. Their job is not to score touchdowns or throw passes, or catch the ball. Their job is to entertain the fans who pay big money to escape the day to day crap they endure, and forget about the real world to immerse themselves in cheering for their football team.

The players are there to entertain them. If they fail to do so it doesn't matter how many touchdowns they score or how many games they win. They are entertainers, in someone else's costume, on someone else's stage in someone else's theater. If the fans are booing them they are utterly failing in their job and they need to go. And fast. Any player who pulls a stunt like that needs to be removed from the team and escorted from the stadium by security.

And if you think people don't care, think again. It isn't just the boos raining down which indicate the impact of these protests.

The Sporting News article says "Nearly one-third (32 percent) of adults say they're less likely to watch NFL game telecasts because of the Kaepernick-led player protests against racial injustice, according to Rasmussen's telephone/online survey of 1,000 American adults conducted Oct. 2-3. Only 13 percent said they were more likely to watch an NFL game because of continuing protests by Kaepernick and supporters such as Antonio Cromartie of the Colts (who was cut only two days after raising a fist during the playing of "The Star-Spangled Banner" in London on Sunday)."


https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2016/10/05/confirmed-nfl-losing-millions-of-tv-viewers-because-of-national-anthem-protests/#5e043dca226c (https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2016/10/05/confirmed-nfl-losing-millions-of-tv-viewers-because-of-national-anthem-protests/#5e043dca226c)

It turns out those blaming Colin Kaepernick for last season’s decline in NFL viewership have a point: A study has found that the national anthem protests were the main reason disenchanted sports fans tuned out.
The J.D. Power Fan Experience Survey, which polled 9,200 sports buffs, showed that of those who watched less coverage, 26 percent cited players who took a knee instead of standing for the anthem, a protest spurred by then-San Francisco 49ers quarterback Kaepernick
.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/28/national-anthem-protests-top-list-of-reasons-nfl-f/ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/28/national-anthem-protests-top-list-of-reasons-nfl-f/)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 24, 2017, 10:17:27 am
Makes me wonder why people have a problem with entertainers protesting racial injustice and a President who encourages white nationalists.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 24, 2017, 10:20:12 am
Makes me wonder why people have a problem with entertainers protesting racial injustice and a President who encourages white nationalists.

Why would it make you wonder? Americans are very patriotic, especially w/r to the visible props of patriotism like the flag and anthem. And most white Americans don't think cops shooting Black criminals who resist arrest is something worth spurning the anthem and flag for.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 24, 2017, 03:46:17 pm
Maybe they should de-couple football, and sports generally, with patriotism ?  If 100+ players defy the show of patriotic fervour that accompanies these games, then now the divisiveness infects them too.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 24, 2017, 04:34:00 pm
Maybe they should de-couple football, and sports generally, with patriotism ?  If 100+ players defy the show of patriotic fervour that accompanies these games, then now the divisiveness infects them too.

Maybe the players should decouple their politics from their jobs. Who else thinks they could go to work and make some kind of divisive protest every day and not be fired?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 24, 2017, 04:37:49 pm
Maybe the players should decouple their politics from their jobs. Who else thinks they could go to work and make some kind of divisive protest every day and not be fired?

Well, they are taking a moral stance at great risk to their income.  Whether or not you agree with their plaint, wouldn't you say that it's a selfless thing to do ?  They're sure not helping their careers any.

Now, the NFL can take action against 1 guy but not 100.  Time for some politics... to fix the politics.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on September 24, 2017, 05:27:02 pm
College and high school football kids players going to have considerable influence on their peers and families.   Are they mpre likely or less likely to support coaches and players they may see as heroes and role models?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 24, 2017, 05:40:16 pm
Maybe the players should decouple their politics from their jobs. Who else thinks they could go to work and make some kind of divisive protest every day and not be fired?

Love to see those patriotic fans when the NFL and NBA fired every black player. Like that’s going to happen. The players hold the hammer here. Typical Trump bullshit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 24, 2017, 06:03:28 pm
https://twitter.com/NASCARONFOX/status/912083239682039808

Now NASCAR is out-patrioting the NFL.  Ridiculous.

There are huge issues happening with NK, Healthcare, and the economy.  People would rather fight over identity issues.  Let them protest, I say, but if you disagree or not, let's move the issue of racial injustice to the stakeholder who can do something about it.... this is so far removed and is now about other things completely.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 24, 2017, 06:16:06 pm
(https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snopes.com%2Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F10%2Fnflmeme.jpg&hash=ce87cc82e4da4fd05553f2bf25dc6161f1b132d2)

I have NOT checked this one for accuracy but it seems like it plays in.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 24, 2017, 06:21:49 pm
Nice to see the owners backing their players on this.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 24, 2017, 06:28:01 pm
Democracy is dying.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 24, 2017, 06:43:58 pm
Maybe the players should decouple their politics from their jobs. Who else thinks they could go to work and make some kind of divisive protest every day and not be fired?

Listening to the national anthem is not part of their job, and so demonstrating their foirst amendment rites during that time is up to them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 24, 2017, 06:46:46 pm
Why would it make you wonder? Americans are very patriotic, especially w/r to the visible props of patriotism like the flag and anthem. And most white Americans don't think cops shooting Black criminals who resist arrest is something worth spurning the anthem and flag for.

What about Black "suspects" who are unarmed and get shot in the back, or reaching for their drivers license when a cop asks them for it?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 24, 2017, 06:52:19 pm
Nice to see the owners backing their players on this.

Certainly is. And it once again points out who should actually get fired.

Interesting how a certain poster on here who previously claimed not to be a fan of Trump's appears to have changed direction now that the race card is front and center.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 25, 2017, 10:18:36 am
Well, they are taking a moral stance at great risk to their income.  Whether or not you agree with their plaint, wouldn't you say that it's a selfless thing to do ?  They're sure not helping their careers any.

Now, the NFL can take action against 1 guy but not 100.  Time for some politics... to fix the politics.

Risking your job when you live hand to mouth and jobs are scarce is brave. Risking your job when you're a multi-millionaire on a multi-year contract - not so much. Plus there's this aggressive culture of machismo among Black males, particularly athletes. They don't care about threats. And as pampered pets since they started showing promise on the football field, I don't think they're all that worried about real repercussions.
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 25, 2017, 10:22:54 am
What about Black "suspects" who are unarmed and get shot in the back, or reaching for their drivers license when a cop asks them for it?

Even if you agree, as many do, that some police shootings were unjustified, if the victim was a criminal - self identified by running from police - they're not going to have a lot of sympathy in most cases. The worse cases of unjustified shooting I've seen have been against Whites. All the ones involving blacks have involved people resisting arrest - with the exception of that guy who said he had a gun and reached for something, alarming the trigger happy cop.

Do I feel sorry for that guy shot in the back? He refused to stop for police, racing away in his car, when he crashed he ran for it. When the cop caught him he fought him and knocked the tazer out of his hands, then ran for it again. Did he deserve death for that? No. And the cop should be fired and punished. Do I feel particularly sorry for him? Nope. Nor do most White Americans.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 25, 2017, 10:26:04 am
Risking your job when you live hand to mouth and jobs are scarce is brave. Risking your job when you're a multi-millionaire on a multi-year contract - not so much. Plus there's this aggressive culture of machismo among Black males, particularly athletes. They don't care about threats. And as pampered pets since they started showing promise on the football field, I don't think they're all that worried about real repercussions.

I agree that there is less risk, but also it's different: any time, even one game off, during your prime years reduces your potential for fame, achievement and money.  Also, I have yet to see a correlation between NFL earnings and willingness to kneel.  In fact, I'd bet that high-visibility QBs are less willing to make waves, especially white ones, than linemen. 

Your idea that they don't 'care about threats' really says they're not too bright.  But you're opening up a door to discounting bravery in anyone based on group demographics really.  The implication is that they're not to be admired as much, correct ?  IF you follow that idea, though, it takes you to weird places.  Take race out of it and you can say something like "soldiers aren't really brave, they're just dumb young guys".

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 25, 2017, 10:26:28 am
Certainly is. And it once again points out who should actually get fired.

Interesting how a certain poster on here who previously claimed not to be a fan of Trump's appears to have changed direction now that the race card is front and center.

I made MY opinion known on this issue long before Trump did. Based on intelligence and logical facts presented. The use of intelligence and facts differentiates me from certain other posters.

Anyone is free to look it up on that other site. And I would say my criticism of Trump has been pretty consistent, knowledgeable and intelligent - as opposed to the bleating whines of certain other posters.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 25, 2017, 10:35:40 am
I agree that there is less risk, but also it's different: any time, even one game off, during your prime years reduces your potential for fame, achievement and money.  Also, I have yet to see a correlation between NFL earnings and willingness to kneel.  In fact, I'd bet that high-visibility QBs are less willing to make waves, especially white ones, than linemen. 

The individual risk, as you point out, is pretty minimal when you're part of 200 guys who kneel. The risk is generalized. NFL will be less popular, and have fewer fans, and ultimately, they might have to settle for a little less money next contract negotiation if it continues, but that's all ephemeral stuff.

Quote
Your idea that they don't 'care about threats' really says they're not too bright.

Football players, not too bright? Perish the thought!

Quote
But you're opening up a door to discounting bravery in anyone based on group demographics really.  The implication is that they're not to be admired as much, correct ?  IF you follow that idea, though, it takes you to weird places.  Take race out of it and you can say something like "soldiers aren't really brave, they're just dumb young guys".

First, it's your contention they're brave and mine that they see little likelihood of serious punishment. Further, I don't think they have the foresight or intelligence to imagine being seriously punished for anything. Have you ever read up on these guys? Not just football but other pro athletes? Once you're the star of team in high school you're practically teflon. You can do just about anything and the school will forgive it and help you out. Everyone admires you. You're going somewhere. It gets worse in college. You're gonna be a millionaire if you're a star, and everyone wants to be your friend. They live in a life where they never have to apologize to anyone, at least, not off the field. I can't remember the paper I read this in but this kind of sums it up.   http://globalsportsdevelopment.org/m/2015/03/03/the-culture-of-preferential-treatment-among-athletes/ (http://globalsportsdevelopment.org/m/2015/03/03/the-culture-of-preferential-treatment-among-athletes/)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 25, 2017, 10:47:59 am
I made MY opinion known on this issue long before Trump did. Based on intelligence and logical facts presented. The use of intelligence and facts differentiates me from certain other posters.

Anyone is free to look it up on that other site. And I would say my criticism of Trump has been pretty consistent, knowledgeable and intelligent - as opposed to the bleating whines of certain other posters.

Yeah, you have changed direction on your Trump posts, and yeah, it certainly seems to be race based more so than knowledge or intelligence I'm afraid.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 25, 2017, 10:57:17 am
Yeah, you have changed direction on your Trump posts, and yeah, it certainly seems to be race based more so than knowledge or intelligence I'm afraid.

No, it's intelligence. I'm not going to curse someone for having a dog because Hitler liked dogs. I'm not going to think an idea is stupid just because Donald Trump does. If Trudeau comes up with a good idea I'll applaud it. An idea is good or bad on its surface without regard to who advocates it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 25, 2017, 01:51:03 pm
They live in a life where they never have to apologize to anyone, at least, not off the field. I can't remember the paper I read this in but this kind of sums it up.   http://globalsportsdevelopment.org/m/2015/03/03/the-culture-of-preferential-treatment-among-athletes/ (http://globalsportsdevelopment.org/m/2015/03/03/the-culture-of-preferential-treatment-among-athletes/)

Ok, what about my example ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 25, 2017, 01:57:37 pm
Trump keeps prattling on about his support for "the flag" but he forgets that he used his phony "bone spurs" to become draft dodger so as to avoid going to defend it.

That's capitol H Hypocritical.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 25, 2017, 02:24:43 pm
Even if you agree, as many do, that some police shootings were unjustified, if the victim was a criminal - self identified by running from police - they're not going to have a lot of sympathy in most cases. The worse cases of unjustified shooting I've seen have been against Whites. All the ones involving blacks have involved people resisting arrest - with the exception of that guy who said he had a gun and reached for something, alarming the trigger happy cop.

Do I feel sorry for that guy shot in the back? He refused to stop for police, racing away in his car, when he crashed he ran for it. When the cop caught him he fought him and knocked the tazer out of his hands, then ran for it again. Did he deserve death for that? No. And the cop should be fired and punished. Do I feel particularly sorry for him? Nope. Nor do most White Americans.

Apparently you either haven't read or choose to ignore the actual stats as to how many unarmed Blacks get killed by white cops in the US. Did you happen to see for instance the kid shot and killed in the park for instance. No justification whatsoever. Here are some stats for your edification.

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 25, 2017, 02:55:48 pm
Ok, what about my example ?

What example? Soldiers? They actually ARE taking risks. And their motive is somewhat more patriotic than that of millionaire football players.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 25, 2017, 03:07:44 pm
Apparently you either haven't read or choose to ignore the actual stats as to how many unarmed Blacks get killed by white cops in the US. Did you happen to see for instance the kid shot and killed in the park for instance. No justification whatsoever. Here are some stats for your edification.

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

Spare me. The stats aren't out of line with the stats on Black violence which causes a lot more interaction between police and, in particular, young black males. In New York city 56% of murder suspects are Black, as are 50% of ****, 66% of robberies, 70% of shootings, 53% of assaults, 57% of grand larcenies, etc. etc. The suspect stats exactly match the victim description stats so it's not like the cops are making stuff up. OF COURSE there's going to be a lot more violent interaction between police and the Black population on a statistical basis. BLM never talks about the Black crime stats but that's basically the reason.

Some years back Chris Rock did a funny video, an instructoinal video for Black men titled "How not to get your ass kicked by the POlice." Number one was "Obey the law".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 25, 2017, 03:23:52 pm
What example? Soldiers? They actually ARE taking risks. And their motive is somewhat more patriotic than that of millionaire football players.

Yes, but they're stupid too right ?  "more patriotic" ?  How far backward will you bend to allow generalizations to be used to insult groups you don't like ?

Football players = stupid = protests of conscience aren't valorous
Soldiers = more patriotic = ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 25, 2017, 03:28:45 pm
Spare me. The stats aren't out of line with the stats on Black violence which causes a lot more interaction between police and, in particular, young black males. In New York city 56% of murder suspects are Black, as are 50% of ****, 66% of robberies, 70% of shootings, 53% of assaults, 57% of grand larcenies, etc. etc. The suspect stats exactly match the victim description stats so it's not like the cops are making stuff up. OF COURSE there's going to be a lot more violent interaction between police and the Black population on a statistical basis. BLM never talks about the Black crime stats but that's basically the reason.

Some years back Chris Rock did a funny video, an instructoinal video for Black men titled "How not to get your ass kicked by the POlice." Number one was "Obey the law".

Your obvious attempt to deflect does not change the facts that you are a lot more likely to get shot by a cop if you are Black in America. And the cop will likely get away with it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 25, 2017, 05:37:40 pm
The individual risk, as you point out, is pretty minimal when you're part of 200 guys who kneel. The risk is generalized. NFL will be less popular, and have fewer fans, and ultimately, they might have to settle for a little less money next contract negotiation if it continues, but that's all ephemeral stuff.

Football players, not too bright? Perish the thought!



As opposed to the mob Trump feeds with his rabble rousing. Black athletes should suck it up and take their medicine as individuals. What a bunch of wimps showing support for each other. Even worse are the their white team mates who show them support. I doubt the leagues will suffer at all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 25, 2017, 06:01:44 pm
Yes, but they're stupid too right ?  "more patriotic" ?  How far backward will you bend to allow generalizations to be used to insult groups you don't like ?

Football players = stupid = protests of conscience aren't valorous
Soldiers = more patriotic = ?

Your comparison is inane. You're trying to say multimillionaire football players should be admired for their bravery in kneeling or else we shouldn't admire men who risk their lives for their countries for theirs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 25, 2017, 06:02:57 pm
Your obvious attempt to deflect does not change the facts that you are a lot more likely to get shot by a cop if you are Black in America. And the cop will likely get away with it.

You are six times more likely to murder someone in America if you're Black too.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 25, 2017, 06:12:09 pm
As opposed to the mob Trump feeds with his rabble rousing. Black athletes should suck it up and take their medicine as individuals. What a bunch of wimps showing support for each other. Even worse are the their white team mates who show them support. I doubt the leagues will suffer at all.

You doubt, based on what? Viewership was down last year and is down more this year. You doubt that offending a substantial portion of your customers every week will cost you anything? Seriously? You taken a look at what NFL stadiums look like in LA and San Francisco lately?

You're falling into the trap of thinking that because Trump is opposed to something every decent individual has to support it. That's illogical. If Trump comes out and demands everyone brush their teeth before bedtime are you going to indignantly throw your toothbrush away?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 26, 2017, 12:35:29 am
Your comparison is inane. You're trying to say multimillionaire football players should be admired for their bravery in kneeling or else we shouldn't admire men who risk their lives for their countries for theirs.

What's actually inane is your attempt to conflate people showing their disdain for the ongoing racism that to this day permeates the US by twisting it to try and say it is a show of disrespect for soldiers. Sounds what we'd expect to hear from the likes of faux news.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 26, 2017, 05:41:45 am
Your comparison is inane. You're trying to say multimillionaire football players should be admired for their bravery in kneeling or else we shouldn't admire men who risk their lives for their countries for theirs.

I didn't say that - I'm playing your judgement matrix back to you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 26, 2017, 08:15:47 am
https://twitter.com/NASCARONFOX/status/912083239682039808

Now NASCAR is out-patrioting the NFL.  Ridiculous.

There are huge issues happening with NK, Healthcare, and the economy.  People would rather fight over identity issues.  Let them protest, I say, but if you disagree or not, let's move the issue of racial injustice to the stakeholder who can do something about it.... this is so far removed and is now about other things completely.
Hard to believe a sports organization with virtually no visible minorities, whose head offices are in North Carolina, would condemn protests against racial oppression. /s
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 26, 2017, 08:20:07 am
Even if you agree, as many do, that some police shootings were unjustified, if the victim was a criminal - self identified by running from police - they're not going to have a lot of sympathy in most cases.
Those "many" people are **** morons. Criminal justice is based on the premise of innocent until proven guilty. People who support the police murdering in the streets those who are not an immediate threat to the lives of those around them are a real threat to society. This goes against our fundamental human rights. It goes against the idea of a fair and just judicial system. And quite frankly, the conversation most of the time is racist as **** because it's almost never about white people.

Everyone is entitled to a court date. Everyone. And if you think it's just that cops get to play judge, jury, and executioner in the streets against unarmed people, you disgust me.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 26, 2017, 11:19:40 am
I didn't say that - I'm playing your judgement matrix back to you.

Suitably altered into a straw man that doesn't fit his clothes...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 26, 2017, 11:25:07 am
Those "many" people are **** morons. Criminal justice is based on the premise of innocent until proven guilty.

Yes, yes, and everyone understands that. No one thinks cops should shoot people in the back, well, almost no one. But in a case where a criminal dies during a physical struggle with police most people aren't going to get too upset. The original case being one of those. Almost none of the people shot by police were law-abiding citizens, and the public generally has little sympathy for criminals. More to the point, they can't see this ever happening to them, since they would obey the law and obey a cop's orders, especially a cop pointing a gun at them. The Chicago case, for example, where a cop shot a black guy walking down the road with a knife - unjustified in my opinion. Nevertheless, most people would never see themselves walking down a street carrying a knife while twenty cops pointed guns at them and shouted at them to drop the knife. Most people would say if your response to that is to scream curses at the police, well, society is probably not much harmed by your early exit from it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 26, 2017, 01:12:35 pm
Trump seems to once again have gotten his tweet fingers working before his brain was engaged. He says there was  medium range ballistic missile fired in Iran which could have threatened Israel. Only trouble is, there was no missile fired. He was a little confused by a months old video he happened to see. We all know Trump's credibility has been in the crapper for some time, but he should be a little more careful about those kinds of dangerous mistakes.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/politics/us-iranian-missile-launch-fake/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 26, 2017, 08:39:31 pm
(https://www.imgur.com/zi9rxGM.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 27, 2017, 05:06:52 am
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/27/politics/roy-moore-alabama-republican-establishment/index.html

"How Roy Moore won the first battle of the anti-McConnell war"

So as I understand it, the crazies still LIKE Trump but they want to elect somebody even CRAZIER than him to help the cause ?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 27, 2017, 09:03:04 am
I have NOT checked this one for accuracy but it seems like it plays in.

I can't find evidence to support the claim that the players didn't participate in the anthem before 2009. But the US military has definitely paid the NFL a lot of money over the past several years to promote military service.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/04/news/companies/team-paid-military-tributes/index.html

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/15611052/nfl-returning-723000-taxpayers-paid-military-tributes

In short, football was politicized well before Colin Kaepernick started kneeling during the anthem.  If the players are going to be used for political purposes, I don't see why they shouldn't make their own feelings felt.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 27, 2017, 09:18:54 am
Ok, it is a fact that the players weren't required to be on the field during the anthem prior to 2009.

It's covered in this article from September 2016, before Trump was president, in response to the then-new controversy regarding Colin Kaepernick.

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/yp89dj/stephen-a-smith-points-out-nfls-paid-patriotism-problem

Quote
It's a tribute to the NFL's ability to drape itself in the flag that nobody even realizes that – prior to 2009 – players being on the field for the national anthem wasn't even standard practice.

...

NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy confirmed this morning the practice began in 2009, adding, 'As you know, the NFL has a long tradition of patriotism. Players are encouraged but not required to stand for the anthem.'

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/nzx95m/us-citizens-paid-68-million-to-pro-sports-teams-for-military-ads

Quote
In total, the DOD spent $53 million in advertising contracts with sports teams over the time studied, the majority of which was legitimate, according to the report. Some $10.4 million of that figure was for the "paid patriotism" variety, and $6.8 million of that came directly from taxpayers.

Among the big winners in these contracts were the Falcons, Giants, Bills, and (naturally) Patriots. Atlanta received $879,000 from the Georgia Army National Guard, while the Giants, Bills, and Patriots received "at least" $500,000 each for similar shows of pride.

Lest you think this is just a professional scam, college programs also got in on the act. Indiana, Purdue, and Wisconsin were all mentioned by name as having received over half a million dollars during the same time period.

The rationale for these contracts, as put forth by the NFL and DOD, is that they were recruiting tools. The report notes that this is not only a preposterous argument, but that it is not one that should be made on the taxpayer's dime.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 27, 2017, 10:37:43 am
Suitably altered into a straw man that doesn't fit his clothes...

There's no straw man here.

There is a group of people acting according to their conscience.

You have added a dimension that allows you to discount the valour of one group, but not another.

Really, you should stop moralizing so much, that would fix it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 27, 2017, 11:53:23 am
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/27/politics/roy-moore-alabama-republican-establishment/index.html

"How Roy Moore won the first battle of the anti-McConnell war"

So as I understand it, the crazies still LIKE Trump but they want to elect somebody even CRAZIER than him to help the cause ?

I would love to run against this guy. First I'd call him Mr and not Judge, and I'd point out that we grant ex high ranking military people their title as a kind of honorary thing, as in General this or Colonel that, but not if they'd been court martialled. This loony was booted out of his job twice for refusing to obey the supreme court. A judge who says he doesn't have to follow the Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court!

Second I'd point out that I respect the constitution, unlike my opponent, and stand for law and order, unlike my opponent.  You don't stand for law and order while spurning the orders of the court and ignoring the law.

Third I'd point out I'm a Christian, unlike my opponent. Men like this tend to focus on the Old Testament, which has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. In fact, it's mostly stolen from the Jewish bible. The New Testament is the story of Jesus, and the primary focus of Jesus' teachings, if you could say it had one, was to love one another, be kind, and to take care of each other, especially the poor and sick. What exactly about this guy, his statements, or the Republican Party with is hedonistic, adulterous fornicator-and-groper-in chief has anything in common with that?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 27, 2017, 11:56:47 am
There's no straw man here.

There is a group of people acting according to their conscience.

You have added a dimension that allows you to discount the valour of one group, but not another.

Okay, well, those white supremacists in Charlottesville were acting according to their consciences too. So that's all good too, right? The Nazis in Germany were acting according to their consciences too. So were Stalin's people and the Chinese Red Guards. They were all doing what they thought was right.

Is that your standard for admiration? Do you admire Adolph Hitler?

If not perhaps you might concede things aren't as simplistic as you make them out to be.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 27, 2017, 12:01:55 pm
Ok, it is a fact that the players weren't required to be on the field during the anthem prior to 2009.

Fascinating how culture changes, huh?
Wasn't all that long ago the Chretien Liberals had to change their Marriage Act bill because of opposition within their own caucus. Liberal MPs were afraid that the wording didn't make it clear enough that marriage was strictly for a man and a woman.

When I was younger Dominion Day was a nice, sleepy holiday, and we looked down on those gauche Americans and all their patriotic fofoorah on July 4th. Painting faces and draping yourself in flags? Seriously!?

But after years of energetic federal government propaganda Canadians now take that sort of thing for granted. You see them every July 1st, painting their faces, draping themselves in the flag and shouting their love of Canada - very much like Americans.

Now everyone is used to the anthem and used to players standing for it. Deliberately not doing so as an act of defiance is seen as extremely unpatriotic.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 27, 2017, 01:26:15 pm
The problem facing these NFL players is not that they are peacefully protesting, it's how and when they are doing it.  They are protesting the national anthem and the flag - even though some are trying to say otherwise.  Taking a knee during the anthem wasn't a coincidence, it was a statement from Kaepernick (and now many others) expressing that he didn't respect the anthem or flag (in essence - the country).  Fair enough, I think he looks foolish and hypocritical but he has a right.
Anyway, many americans, fans and veterans love America, love the flag and anthem and have a deeper understanding of the symbolism that those things represent and a protest like this puts those people squarely in the middle of choosing to side with the players and their protest or the national anthem (representing the country).  This decision becomes more complicated when the NFL owners, clearly terrified of being labelled racist and clearly hoping to not **** off 65% of their team and the black community, cave in and hope for the best. 

This means that the NFL fan is effectively supposed to choose between the protestors/NFL teams and their flag (representing their country).  For many people, and especially veterans this is a nearly impossible decision, but they are painfully siding with the flag and staying away from the NFL.  The problem with the manner of protest, is that it's driven away many people (millions) who otherwise might side with it.  IOW, the protest itself is more of a factor than the issue.

In closing, it doesn't help that anyone who sides with the anthem/flag is now labelled a racist.  The Pittsburgh penguins are already being labelled as such for accepting a visit to the Whitehouse.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 27, 2017, 02:22:11 pm
The problem facing Rosa Parks was she was clearly protesting public transportation, even though she may have said otherwise. She may have indicated it was a protest against segregation, but those of us who love buses know otherwise.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 27, 2017, 02:47:19 pm
Why few White Americans are all that supportive of BLM

The Alton Sterling and Philando Castile shootings have caused an uproar among leftists because they fuel their narrative that racist white police officers are hunting down innocent black men. But the statistics – brought to light by the superb work of Heather Mac Donald – tell a different story.


http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler (http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 27, 2017, 02:54:58 pm
I would love to run against this guy.

They are trying to figure out how to defeat these types.  It seems that the very rational arguments you put forward might not work against an electorate who wants to put forward the most outrageous candidates they can.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 27, 2017, 02:57:03 pm
"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media

You see, it's not coincidental that he chose to protest the national anthem.  He knew what he was/is protesting and that is "pride in the flag" (and he gave reasons for this).  Sure, he has his right, and no matter how you people want to disconnect the issues and claim something that he has not even claimed - to make it okay, is not gonna pass with too many people.  He has taken a stand against the flag and against the anthem and no matter how much you want to claim otherwise, about 70% of Americans know that to be the truth.

Essentially, the term "shitting in your own back yard" comes to mind.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 27, 2017, 03:00:34 pm
Is that your standard for admiration? Do you admire Adolph Hitler?

If not perhaps you might concede things aren't as simplistic as you make them out to be.

Ok.  Well... do you think calling attention to police brutality is the same kind of thing as marching for... I don't know what they were marching for... bringing Hitler back ?

Adding more attributes to the equation doesn't seem to help.  Here we are:
                Group:      Charlottesville Nazis             NFL Protesters               Soldiers

Attribute
Qualities of Group            Hateful                            Not worldly                      ?
Nobility of goal                Non existent                        ?                          Generally accepted
Bravery                          Questionable                    Depends                   Unquestionable

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2017, 05:14:20 pm
"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media

You see, it's not coincidental that he chose to protest the national anthem.  He knew what he was/is protesting and that is "pride in the flag" (and he gave reasons for this).  Sure, he has his right, and no matter how you people want to disconnect the issues and claim something that he has not even claimed - to make it okay, is not gonna pass with too many people.  He has taken a stand against the flag and against the anthem and no matter how much you want to claim otherwise, about 70% of Americans know that to be the truth.

Essentially, the term "shitting in your own back yard" comes to mind.

He has taken a stand against the ongoing racism that exists in the US. Why can't you right wingers seem to comprehend that?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 27, 2017, 05:49:45 pm
He has taken a stand against the ongoing racism that exists in the US. Why can't you right wingers seem to comprehend that?

....by doing what?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 27, 2017, 06:16:33 pm
They are trying to figure out how to defeat these types.  It seems that the very rational arguments you put forward might not work against an electorate who wants to put forward the most outrageous candidates they can.

These are the kind of arguments that Clinton should have been making in the election. He was calling her every name in the book while she was 'taking the high road'. Well where did the high road wind up? In a forest in Main wondering how she lost.

I'm not a high road kind of guy when dealing with someone like Trump. I'd have been buying radio time all across the country to play recordings of him calling up a radio station pretending to be his publicist and bragging about his sexual prowess with his mistress of the time. I'd have been putting his mug shot on TV ads with a big red ADULTERER slapped across his forehead, next to similar pictures of his supporters like Rudy Gilliunai,  Steve Bannon and Roger Ailes. I'd have found some of those teenage girls from the Miss Teen USA pageant to talk about how they were half naked when Trump barged into their dressing room to gawk at them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 27, 2017, 06:18:30 pm
He has taken a stand against the ongoing racism that exists in the US. Why can't you right wingers seem to comprehend that?

He's a wack job, just to begin with. And his 'stand' is specifically about police killing Black criminals, which most of us right wingers aren't all that sympathetic to.

"if you see the red light in your rear view mirror, STOP IMMEDIATELY! Because everyone knows, if the police have to come get you, they're bringing an ass whooping with them."  - Chris Rock
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 27, 2017, 06:20:06 pm
Ok.  Well... do you think calling attention to police brutality is the same kind of thing as marching for... I don't know what they were marching for... bringing Hitler back ?

Do you think getting shot at and bombed in Afghanistan is on the same 'bravery' level as kneeling at a football game? Because that was your suggestion.


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 27, 2017, 06:27:56 pm
Do you think getting shot at and bombed in Afghanistan is on the same 'bravery' level as kneeling at a football game? Because that was your suggestion.

I didn't make any comment about 'levels' of bravery.  You dismissed the bravery and risk of protesting by saying they're headstrong and naive.  And I pointed out that such comments aren't usually made about soldiers.  It seems to me you're looking for ways to discount the protest that aren't necessary to the discussion.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 27, 2017, 10:36:16 pm
Fascinating how culture changes, huh?

Well, as the articles I posted indicate, in regards to the NFL it's not that culture changed, it's that the NFL decided to promote fake patriotism because the Department of Defense paid them to.

When I was younger Dominion Day was a nice, sleepy holiday, and we looked down on those gauche Americans and all their patriotic fofoorah on July 4th. Painting faces and draping yourself in flags? Seriously!?

But after years of energetic federal government propaganda Canadians now take that sort of thing for granted. You see them every July 1st, painting their faces, draping themselves in the flag and shouting their love of Canada - very much like Americans.

When my family moved to Ottawa from the west, sometime around 1998, I was quite taken aback at the degree of overt nationalism on display. I hadn't seen anything like that when I lived in Edmonton or Vancouver or Victoria.  I don't see such nationalism in Kim City, or when I visit Edmonton or Vancouver. Except briefly during the Vancouver Olympics, when everybody was all amped up about all the gold medals. I can't speak for the rest of Ontario, but I definitely think Ottawa is different from the west in terms of nationalism.

Of course, we also know that the Chretien regime's reasons for playing with patriotism and nationalism, were, like the NFL's, rooted in dollars and not in sincerity. Chretien and friends were funneling money to connected advertising agencies to put a Maple Leaf on anything that wasn't nailed down, and in return the lucky agencies were funneling kickbacks right back to the Liberal party coffers.  I'm sure there's probably an H.L. Mencken adage that would apply, but I haven't got it handy right now.

Now everyone is used to the anthem and used to players standing for it. Deliberately not doing so as an act of defiance is seen as extremely unpatriotic.

Since playing on the patriotism and nationalism of the gullible is what got Trump elected, it's no surprise that he's adopted this as his new cause.

This is the same kind of simplistic emotionalism that has been used to lead dullards around by the nose for ages. "If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists."  "If you don't support the Iraq war, you don't support our troops!" "Support our heroes in blue!"  "America! Love it or leave it!" "If you god damn hippies don't support the Vietnam War, why don't you go live in China you god damn commies!"

People who view the world in such simple terms are the people who put Trump in office, so no wonder he's once again appealing to their nuance-free sensibilities at a time when he desperately needs distractions.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 27, 2017, 11:21:13 pm
....by doing what?

By using his public platform to make a peaceful statement about his beliefs.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 27, 2017, 11:29:10 pm
He's a wack job, just to begin with. And his 'stand' is specifically about police killing Black criminals, which most of us right wingers aren't all that sympathetic to.

"if you see the red light in your rear view mirror, STOP IMMEDIATELY! Because everyone knows, if the police have to come get you, they're bringing an ass whooping with them."  - Chris Rock

The notion that the cops should be able to act as an extrajudicial execution squad is pretty opposite to the kind of conservatism I thought you stood for.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2017, 11:39:57 pm
The notion that the cops should be able to act as an extrajudicial execution squad is pretty opposite to the kind of conservatism I thought you stood for.

 -k

Argus has expressed that kind of "conservatism" since day one. Where ya been?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 28, 2017, 12:23:52 am
By using his public platform to make a peaceful statement about his beliefs.

 -k

Wrong!  He could've done a thousand things that would've been better and less destructive.  As it is, he turned off many people who otherwise would support his cause.  Now, it's the NFL's problem.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 28, 2017, 12:49:22 am
Wrong!  He could've done a thousand things that would've been better and less destructive.  As it is, he turned off many people who otherwise would support his cause.  Now, it's the NFL's problem.

Exactly how is "taking a knee" destructive? Being statistically 5 times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're Black is destructive. And you may have noticed a number of NFL owners have linked arms with the players who are peacefully making a statement. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 28, 2017, 01:20:23 am
Exactly how is "taking a knee" destructive? Being statistically 5 times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're Black is destructive. And you may have noticed a number of NFL owners have linked arms with the players who are peacefully making a statement.

You people believe in nothing and expect others to feel the same way, sorry!  As i said earlier , the manner in which people protest matters as much as the protest itself.  Kaepernick has stated his protest and yet you pull the same crap as you do with muslims "well, it's not about Islam, it's about...", "it's not about the flag, it's about...",  even though the person in question has stated as much.  Use you brain for once man!  There is not a single owner who agrees with this, and lack of employment for Kaepernick is solid proof of that, the owners are in a real bind just as Trump says.  You don't think half-full stadiums and a 11% decrease in TV viewership is destructive, I bet the NFL disagrees. 

We'll see where it goes this weekend, but i'd wager anything that the numbers continue their decline...or the owners suggest to the players that enough is enough.  There is no other way out.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 28, 2017, 01:31:40 am
You people believe in nothing and expect others to feel the same way, sorry!  As i said earlier , the manner in which people protest matters as much as the protest itself.  Kaepernick has stated his protest and yet idiots like you pull the same crap as you do with muslims "well, it's not about Islam, it's about...", "it's not about the flag, it's about...",  even though the person in question has stated as much.  Use you brain for once man!  There is not a single owner who agrees with this, and lack of employment for Kaepernick is solid proof of that, the owners are in a real bind just as Trump says.  You don't think half-full stadiums and a 11% decrease in TV viewership is destructive, I bet the NFL disagrees. 

We'll see where it goes this weekend, but i'd wager anything that the numbers continue their decline...or the owners suggest to the players that enough is enough.  There is no other way out.

We people believe in freedom of speech. It's actually one of the things that soldiers fought for.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 28, 2017, 01:49:42 am
We people believe in freedom of speech. It's actually one of the things that soldiers fought for.

Sure, he has a right to do and say what he is doing, it doesn't make it the right thing to do and say though.  No one, including Trump has said he shouldn't demonstrate - that's not the question and that's not the issue.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 28, 2017, 01:53:34 am
Sure, he has a right to do and say what he is doing, it doesn't make it the right thing to do and say though.  No one, including Trump has said he shouldn't demonstrate - that's not the question and that's not the issue.

Trump said they should "fire the sons of ****. Give your head a shake.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 28, 2017, 02:05:32 am
Trump said they should "fire the sons of ****. Give your head a shake.

For demonstrating?  No!  For the way the demonstrated against the flag.  That's the difference.  Just because you have a right to do something, doesn't make it consequence free.  I can call my boss a motherf****r, I can spit on a picture of his family - I have that right.  What do you think will happen?  I believe there is a problem with police brutaliy - but I cant support this protest.  None of you lefties have any concept of cause and effect - notta one! 
Jerry Jones joined his team in a demonstration, what did Trump say about that?  He said JJ get's it, that he's a winner.  Now, stop and think a minute....Why?  Whats the difference?  I can't stand that you miss so much!  If you had an ounce of self awareness, you'd be embarrassed.

You can bet you sweet bibbies that the NFL is trying to quietly get rid of this asap. 

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 28, 2017, 02:13:24 am
For demonstrating?  No!  For the way the demonstrated against the flag.  That's the difference.  Just because you have a right to do something, doesn't make it consequence free.  I can call my boss a motherf****r, I can spit on a picture of his family - I have that right.  What do you think will happen?  I believe there is a problem with police brutaliy - but I cant support this protest.  None of you lefties have any concept of cause and effect - notta one! 
Jerry Jones joined his team in a demonstration, what did Trump say about that?  He said JJ get's it, that he's a winner.  Now, stop and think a minute....Why?  Whats the difference?  I can't stand that you miss so much!  If you had an ounce of self awareness, you'd be embarrassed.

You can bet you sweet bibbies that the NFL is trying to quietly get rid of this asap.

You're right li'l buddy, you shouldn't call your boss a mofo. What the issue is about here is racial discrimination. Bit of a difference you apparently don't get.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 28, 2017, 04:38:46 am
He's a wack job, just to begin with. And his 'stand' is specifically about police killing Black criminals, which most of us right wingers aren't all that sympathetic to.
Cops don't decide who criminals are. The courts do. It's sickening that you continue to justify the murder of unarmed people at the hands of cops. You're not at all sympathetic because they're black and your posting history clearly illustrates you as a racist.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 28, 2017, 04:40:48 am
The notion that the cops should be able to act as an extrajudicial execution squad is pretty opposite to the kind of conservatism I thought you stood for.

 -k
That five year old kid in Chicago had it coming. He was clearly a criminal.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 28, 2017, 04:42:17 am
Wrong!  He could've done a thousand things that would've been better and less destructive.  As it is, he turned off many people who otherwise would support his cause.  Now, it's the NFL's problem.
If they not those uppity black people would protest in a less visible way. MLK should have marched across a bridge in his backyard and Rosa Parks should have sat down in her living room.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on September 28, 2017, 08:07:27 am
Lets refrain from calling eachother idiots.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 28, 2017, 09:10:45 am
At the end of the anthem in Kansas City, the fans sing "land of the free and home of the Chiefs". But many of those same fans say taking a knee is disrespectful to the anthem. Right.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 28, 2017, 09:13:02 am
Wrong! 

What's wrong about what I said?

He could've done a thousand things that would've been better and less destructive. 

Ok, offer a few examples.

As it is, he turned off many people who otherwise would support his cause. 

If we were talking about blocking intersections, or taking over libraries so that people can't study, or halting somebody else's parade, or taking over the stage at the Jazz Festival, then I'd agree with you 100%. I think that stuff alienates people who would be inclined to listened.

But kneeling during the anthem?  I think that people who are mad about that are mad about his message.

Now, it's the NFL's problem.

The NFL helped create this problem in the first place by agreeing to promote phony patriotism in exchange for cash from the Department of Defense.  If you're going to politicize your product, you have only yourself to blame when others don't agree with the politics your product has aligned with.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 28, 2017, 09:18:06 am
....by doing what?

By getting people to pay attention to the issue they are addressing. By the number of people who have their knickers in a knot over this, it's working quite well.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 28, 2017, 09:24:04 am
You doubt, based on what? Viewership was down last year and is down more this year. You doubt that offending a substantial portion of your customers every week will cost you anything? Seriously? You taken a look at what NFL stadiums look like in LA and San Francisco lately?

You're falling into the trap of thinking that because Trump is opposed to something every decent individual has to support it. That's illogical. If Trump comes out and demands everyone brush their teeth before bedtime are you going to indignantly throw your toothbrush away?
d

NASCAR which Trump likes to point to for its patriotism was down 17% last year. There is more going on here. America is addicted to football and basketball. Football and basketball are addicted to black players. So it's a matter of entertain me but keep your black mouth shut.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 28, 2017, 09:35:08 am
NASCAR which Trump likes to point to for its patriotism was down 17% last year.

so much for that narrative.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 28, 2017, 11:04:45 am
What's wrong about what I said?

Ok, offer a few examples.

If we were talking about blocking intersections, or taking over libraries so that people can't study, or halting somebody else's parade, or taking over the stage at the Jazz Festival, then I'd agree with you 100%. I think that stuff alienates people who would be inclined to listened.

But kneeling during the anthem?  I think that people who are mad about that are mad about his message.

The NFL helped create this problem in the first place by agreeing to promote phony patriotism in exchange for cash from the Department of Defense.  If you're going to politicize your product, you have only yourself to blame when others don't agree with the politics your product has aligned with.

 -k

All this proves is that you can't look beyond your own nose.  You want everyone to care about what you care about, yet you look these people in the face and call them stupid, fools, uneducated rubes...deplorable.  Patriotism may be a joke to you, I know it's phoney and a joke to lefties who take freedom and the western way of life for granted, but for many people it's deadly serious.  Many of the causes that the left want to promote get lost when you/they start burning, stomping on, spitting on...or otherwise disrespecting the flag.  If you refuse to understand why veterans and families of veterans are patriotic, how can you expect them to see your point of view?  If you/they want to a serious discussion, showing contempt for the flag is not really a good starting point.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 28, 2017, 11:21:40 am
NASCAR which Trump likes to point to for its patriotism was down 17% last year.

Pssst.  All sports are losing audience...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 28, 2017, 11:22:51 am
All this proves is that you can't look beyond your own nose.  You want everyone to care about what you care about, yet you look these people in the face and call them stupid, fools, uneducated rubes...deplorable.  Patriotism may be a joke to you, I know it's phoney and a joke to lefties who take freedom and the western way of life for granted, but for many people it's deadly serious.  Many of the causes that the left want to promote get lost when you/they start burning, stomping on, spitting on...or otherwise disrespecting the flag.  If you refuse to understand why veterans and families of veterans are patriotic, how can you expect them to see your point of view?  If you/they want to a serious discussion, showing contempt for the flag is not really a good starting point.   

Racism against non white Americas is a deterioration of the very freedom you speak of. And the first amendment provides a way to point that out.  Sounds like you want to add to the problem.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 28, 2017, 11:38:57 am
The notion that the cops should be able to act as an extrajudicial execution squad is pretty opposite to the kind of conservatism I thought you stood for.

 -k

It's a recognition of human nature. I've seen countless videos of violent police interaction with people - especially blacks, but not only them. There are damned few where the civilian was polite and cooperative and was subjected to violence.

And calling Chris Rock's statement support of an 'extrajudicial execution' is kind of an exaggeration, don't you think?

My point about BLM is the same as in the cite in post #780, which pointed out that the only reason more Blacks are shot - percentage wise - than Whites is more Blacks are involved in violent crime - percentage wise - than whites.

There IS a problem with police training in the US and in Canada. They are taught to 'take command' and they are far more militaristic than they need to be or used to be. They are often far quicker to grab people instead of talking to them. They feel threatened much more easily, and when threatened go for their guns too quickly. But this is a universal issue, not a Black rights issue. Some shootings are definitely unjustified, and I say it when I see it. The Walter Scott shooting is probably the most famous involving Black Americans, but the shooting of Justine Damond was even more outrageous and indefensible, and didn't cause any riots because she was white.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 28, 2017, 11:42:53 am
I didn't make any comment about 'levels' of bravery.  You dismissed the bravery and risk of protesting by saying they're headstrong and naive.  And I pointed out that such comments aren't usually made about soldiers.  It seems to me you're looking for ways to discount the protest that aren't necessary to the discussion.

I don't even know what your point is. My point is that the protest is illegitimate, but that even if it was legitimate doing it at work is something that would get you fired anywhere else. As someone else pointed out, if one of the peanut vendors in the stands wore a Trump hat he'd be ordered to take it off, and fired if he refused. Businesses are not in the business of offending their customers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 28, 2017, 11:44:44 am
We people believe in freedom of speech. It's actually one of the things that soldiers fought for.

Everyone has the right to freedom of speech. That does not imply you can spout off at work. No employer anywhere allows that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 28, 2017, 11:45:10 am
We're clearly talking about 2 different issues here; one I have some amount of support for and the other I don't support at all.  I don't think I'm all that different from millions of other people.  You people want full support of both issues, for what logical reason, no one can answer.  Sorry, but how one approaches a situation directly correlates with how much success you'll have. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 28, 2017, 11:47:49 am
When my family moved to Ottawa from the west, sometime around 1998, I was quite taken aback at the degree of overt nationalism on display. I hadn't seen anything like that when I lived in Edmonton or Vancouver or Victoria.  I don't see such nationalism in Kim City, or when I visit Edmonton or Vancouver. Except briefly during the Vancouver Olympics, when everybody was all amped up about all the gold medals. I can't speak for the rest of Ontario, but I definitely think Ottawa is different from the west in terms of nationalism.

Chretien's Liberals didn't give a **** about western Canada. The patriotism propaganda was aimed at Quebec, and the Ottawa area got a pile of it simply because we have a lot of French, are the capital, and are on the borders of Quebec. Actually, if you listen to the government the capital is called Ottawa-Gatineau, and they do their best to ship a lot of jobs and money into Gatineau.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 28, 2017, 11:50:43 am
I don't even know what your point is. My point is that the protest is illegitimate, but that even if it was legitimate doing it at work is something that would get you fired anywhere else. As someone else pointed out, if one of the peanut vendors in the stands wore a Trump hat he'd be ordered to take it off, and fired if he refused. Businesses are not in the business of offending their customers.

Apparently they do allow free speech at the nfl since a number of owners have locked arms with their players during the anthem.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 28, 2017, 11:50:51 am
It's a recognition of human nature. I've seen countless videos of violent police interaction with people - especially blacks, but not only them. There are damned few where the civilian was polite and cooperative and was subjected to violence.

And calling Chris Rock's statement support of an 'extrajudicial execution' is kind of an exaggeration, don't you think?

My point about BLM is the same as in the cite in post #780, which pointed out that the only reason more Blacks are shot - percentage wise - than Whites is more Blacks are involved in violent crime - percentage wise - than whites.

There IS a problem with police training in the US and in Canada. They are taught to 'take command' and they are far more militaristic than they need to be or used to be. They are often far quicker to grab people instead of talking to them. They feel threatened much more easily, and when threatened go for their guns too quickly. But this is a universal issue, not a Black rights issue. Some shootings are definitely unjustified, and I say it when I see it. The Walter Scott shooting is probably the most famous involving Black Americans, but the shooting of Justine Damond was even more outrageous and indefensible, and didn't cause any riots because she was white.

Was she the woman shot by the "pet project" black immigrant cop?  Not much coverage, I don't know why!  I seem to remember a blurb on the TV about her though!  Was her family ever invited to the UN, Whitehouse or DNC? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 28, 2017, 11:51:01 am
d

NASCAR which Trump likes to point to for its patriotism was down 17% last year. There is more going on here. America is addicted to football and basketball. Football and basketball are addicted to black players. So it's a matter of entertain me but keep your black mouth shut.

What makes you think the response would be any different if some white players were doing the same damn thing?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 28, 2017, 11:54:01 am
Apparently they do allow free speech at the nfl since a number of owners have locked arms with their players during the anthem.

The owners are between a rock and a hard place. Many of their highly skilled players are Black, and the mass media is wholly on whatever side Trump is not on. At the same time, when boos are raining down from the stands in your own stadium you'd be wise to stop bringing politics into your business.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 28, 2017, 12:02:23 pm
What makes you think the response would be any different if some white players were doing the same damn thing?

Except some white players are doing the same thing. I guess you don't have to be black to understand the issue.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 28, 2017, 12:03:56 pm
We're clearly talking about 2 different issues here; one I have some amount of support for and the other I don't support at all.  I don't think I'm all that different from millions of other people.  You people want full support of both issues, for what logical reason, no one can answer.  Sorry, but how one approaches a situation directly correlates with how much success you'll have.
There aren't two issues. There's one issue that black football players were bringing attention to. That's it. This other "issue" you're talking about is bullshit made up by racists to dismiss black activism, just like "all lives matter," and you've bought it hook, line, and sinker.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 28, 2017, 12:04:09 pm
Except some white players are doing the same thing. I guess you don't have to be black to understand the issue.

I suppose to you football players would seem like towering intellectuals who should guide us in our public morality and ethics...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 28, 2017, 12:05:03 pm
There aren't two issues. There's one issue that black football players were bringing attention to.

Shooting black criminals who resist arrest, you mean?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 28, 2017, 12:06:46 pm
It's funny that all those NFL owners were being called racist by everybody with a platform.  It's was the "rich white guy club", it was the "white owners with their black monkeys", now they lock arms with a few of them and they're praised for "standing against Trump's racism".  Do you people not even see this?   Really?  Look, the owners and the NFL are trying to find a way out as quickly as possible. 

You can say that all sports are suffering, but this is the NFL and 10-11% decline represents 100's of $millions, maybe $billions of dollars.  If NHL players did this, I'd stop watching immediately. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 28, 2017, 12:08:12 pm
Shooting black criminals who resist arrest, you mean?
Criminals before trial? 5 year old child criminals? Criminals who obey a cop's orders and get shot sitting in their car anyway?

You're either incredibly ignorant of what's been happening or just a racist who thinks being black is criminal.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 28, 2017, 12:10:18 pm
There are clearly 2 issues here.  How do I know?  Because society and NFL fans say so.  If you think otherwise, then you're simply disregarding the thoughts of millions of people - as I said, it's not a good starting point.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 28, 2017, 12:21:01 pm
Criminals before trial? 5 year old child criminals? Criminals who obey a cop's orders and get shot sitting in their car anyway?

I don't recall a five year old deliberately shot by police. You'll have to cite the case. The guy in he car **** up. He said he had a gun, then reached for something. The cop shouted at him to not move. Apparently he moved. It's too bad but when you have cops who are in a heightened state of fear they're liable to be trigger happy, as the Justine Damond case illustrates.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 28, 2017, 04:31:21 pm
The owners are between a rock and a hard place. Many of their highly skilled players are Black, and the mass media is wholly on whatever side Trump is not on. At the same time, when boos are raining down from the stands in your own stadium you'd be wise to stop bringing politics into your business.

Or on the other hand they just think Trump is FoS as usual. Much easier to make stuff up than listen to what they are actually saying.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 28, 2017, 05:05:34 pm
Or on the other hand they just think Trump is FoS as usual. Much easier to make stuff up than listen to what they are actually saying.

Please!  You're embarrassing yourself.  These owners don't support this movement, but they can't be seen strong arming black players - for obvious reasons.  They're trying to find a way, as Jerry Jones has of walking the fence until this blows over.  Look at what will happen tonight and this weekend, it will be interesting to see how the owners stop the players from kneeling (during the anthem) and find another outlet.  Trump has brought this to a head, will be the winner, and you guy's will convince each other that he somehow lost.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 28, 2017, 05:19:19 pm
Please!  You're embarrassing yourself.  These owners don't support this movement, but they can't be seen strong arming black players - for obvious reasons.  They're trying to find a way, as Jerry Jones has of walking the fence until this blows over.  Look at what will happen tonight and this weekend, it will be interesting to see how the owners stop the players from kneeling (during the anthem) and find another outlet.  Trump has brought this to a head, will be the winner, and you guy's will convince each other that he somehow lost.

There is a bit of a difference between owners strong arming black and white players and going on the field to join arms with them. Trump has simply once again made an **** of himself by displaying his racism while ignoring Americans in trouble on Puerto Rico.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 28, 2017, 05:43:07 pm
There is a bit of a difference between owners strong arming black and white players and going on the field to join arms with them. Trump has simply once again made an **** of himself by displaying his racism while ignoring Americans in trouble on Puerto Rico.

Exactly!  I mean, don't the owners look supportive!  It's almost as if they're different from the owners of last year who were all called racist because none were black or when they were racist for supporting Trump.  Man, what a well timed photo-op can do!

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 28, 2017, 06:40:57 pm
I don't recall a five year old deliberately shot by police. You'll have to cite the case. The guy in he car **** up. He said he had a gun, then reached for something. The cop shouted at him to not move. Apparently he moved. It's too bad but when you have cops who are in a heightened state of fear they're liable to be trigger happy, as the Justine Damond case illustrates.
Still not a "criminal"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 28, 2017, 06:49:08 pm
Please!  You're embarrassing yourself.  These owners don't support this movement, but they can't be seen strong arming black players - for obvious reasons.  They're trying to find a way, as Jerry Jones has of walking the fence until this blows over.  Look at what will happen tonight and this weekend, it will be interesting to see how the owners stop the players from kneeling (during the anthem) and find another outlet.  Trump has brought this to a head, will be the winner, and you guy's will convince each other that he somehow lost.

Please, stop making crap up and presuming to speak for the owners. Trump is just a dick head trying to deflect from all his failed attempts to get legislation passed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 28, 2017, 07:01:12 pm
Just because some of the owners may have supported Trump for his business policies doesn’t make them racist bigots like him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 28, 2017, 07:08:43 pm
Please, stop making crap up and presuming to speak for the owners. Trump is just a dick head trying to deflect from all his failed attempts to get legislation passed.

Call me skeptical, but I gotta think that NFL owners care more about the $millions of dollars they've lost than the political beliefs of a guy who grew up in a ghetto, was dragged through a college degree and now makes $millions of dollars because he can run or catch a football.  Maybe they care out keeping their No.1 QB, RB or WR happy, but the rest are pretty much replaceable.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 28, 2017, 07:12:00 pm
Just because some of the owners may have supported Trump for his business policies doesn’t make them racist bigots like him.

I don't see any racism from any side.  You know, there are many blacks in the military.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 28, 2017, 07:16:32 pm
Call me skeptical, but I gotta think that NFL owners care more about the $millions of dollars they've lost than the political beliefs of a guy who grew up in a ghetto, was dragged through a college degree and now makes $millions of dollars because he can run or catch a football.  Maybe they care out keeping their No.1 QB, RB or WR happy, but the rest are pretty much replaceable.   

NFL owners haven’t “lost” anything. So having money disqualifies you from having ethics. Well it sure has in Trump’s case.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 28, 2017, 08:28:32 pm
So, the first domino goes by the name of "Denver Broncos".  Not that Trump or the fans had anything to do with, it's just what the players thought was the right thing.



http://www.dailycamera.com/broncos-nfl/ci_31339327/denver-broncos-plan-stand-together-national-anthem?source=rss

As an edit, I just want to point this comment out to Omni and cyber:  Joseph said the "platform was not working" and the original intent and message behind the silent protests were lost amid the mass demonstrations through the NFL.

"It was making this whole issue confusing to the fans, to the military, to the players, to the coaches. No one had clarity," he said. "So I think changing the platform in the future — I'm not sure what it is now — but changing it in the future will help us make positive change."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 28, 2017, 09:03:25 pm
Still not a "criminal"

No more than Justine Damond, but **** happens when you've got scared cops with guns. At least one can say the cop feared for his life there, even if I don't think he should have shot so fast, but there's no excuse at all for her shooting.

You won't find many protests over it, though. She was the wrong colour to fit the leftist theme.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 28, 2017, 10:10:21 pm
All this proves is that you can't look beyond your own nose.  You want everyone to care about what you care about, yet you look these people in the face and call them stupid, fools, uneducated rubes...deplorable.

The people who are stupid, fools, rubes, and deplorable are the ones who have allowed themselves to get riled up over a complete non-issue.  They're being played for suckers by a politician who specializes in playing suckers.


Patriotism may be a joke to you, I know it's phoney and a joke to lefties who take freedom and the western way of life for granted, but for many people it's deadly serious. 

I don't think patriotism is phony, but the NFL's on-field displays sure are. As already discussed, the Department of Defense and branches of the US Armed Forces have paid the NFL millions of dollars to put on patriotic displays and showcase members of the military in ceremonies at games.  To boost recruitment.   How is that not phony?


 "We're honoring our military today, because our military paid us to."  YAAAAY! Doesn't that make you feel all patriotic inside?


Many of the causes that the left want to promote get lost when you/they start burning, stomping on, spitting on...or otherwise disrespecting the flag. 

Oh. Ok. Which football players are burning, stomping on, or spitting on the flag? Because those guys are definitely jerks!  Have you got pictures of this happening?

On the other hand, if you're going to tell me that kneeling during the anthem is the same as burning, stomping on, or spitting on the flag, then no. You're wrong. That's silly.

I read a news article last week about a young kid in school who got roughed up by his teacher by not standing and saluting during the Pledge of Allegiance.  So what was the kid's problem. Was he a Muslim? A commie? Some kind of America-hating leftist?  As it turns out the kid was a fundamentalist Christian, whose religious beliefs dictate that he can't pledge allegiance to the flag because his religious beliefs only allow him to pledge allegiance to God.

Declining to participate in a ceremony honoring the flag is not the same as destroying or defacing the flag.   

Consider: every year at our office Christmas party, my boss leads a prayer and saying grace before dinner. And I don't pray along because I'm not religious, so I bow my head and sit quietly.

Now, if my boss were to react like Donald Trump has reacted to this anthem topic, he'd say something like "GOD DAMN YOU WHY ARE YOU DISRESPECTING JESUS WHY DO YOU HATE JESUS GOD DAMN YOU ARE GOD DAMNED FIRED!!!"

But because my boss is a normal person, he's capable of accepting that I don't share his beliefs and accepts that I sit quietly during the prayer without taking it as an offense to either himself or his religion. Because that's how normal people react in situations like that.

If you refuse to understand why veterans and families of veterans are patriotic, how can you expect them to see your point of view?  If you/they want to a serious discussion, showing contempt for the flag is not really a good starting point.   

I understand that veterans and non-veterans and all kinds of other people are patriotic. I don't have any issue with it.

The issue here isn't that people are intolerant of patriotism. The issue here is that some self-styled patriots are intolerant of those who don't share their patriotism.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 28, 2017, 10:46:31 pm
The people who are stupid, fools, rubes, and deplorable are the ones who have allowed themselves to get riled up over a complete non-issue.  They're being played for suckers by a politician who specializes in playing suckers.


I don't think patriotism is phony, but the NFL's on-field displays sure are. As already discussed, the Department of Defense and branches of the US Armed Forces have paid the NFL millions of dollars to put on patriotic displays and showcase members of the military in ceremonies at games.  To boost recruitment.   How is that not phony?


 "We're honoring our military today, because our military paid us to."  YAAAAY! Doesn't that make you feel all patriotic inside?


Oh. Ok. Which football players are burning, stomping on, or spitting on the flag? Because those guys are definitely jerks!  Have you got pictures of this happening?

On the other hand, if you're going to tell me that kneeling during the anthem is the same as burning, stomping on, or spitting on the flag, then no. You're wrong. That's silly.

I read a news article last week about a young kid in school who got roughed up by his teacher by not standing and saluting during the Pledge of Allegiance.  So what was the kid's problem. Was he a Muslim? A commie? Some kind of America-hating leftist?  As it turns out the kid was a fundamentalist Christian, whose religious beliefs dictate that he can't pledge allegiance to the flag because his religious beliefs only allow him to pledge allegiance to God.

Declining to participate in a ceremony honoring the flag is not the same as destroying or defacing the flag.   

Consider: every year at our office Christmas party, my boss leads a prayer and saying grace before dinner. And I don't pray along because I'm not religious, so I bow my head and sit quietly.

Now, if my boss were to react like Donald Trump has reacted to this anthem topic, he'd say something like "GOD DAMN YOU WHY ARE YOU DISRESPECTING JESUS WHY DO YOU HATE JESUS GOD DAMN YOU ARE GOD DAMNED FIRED!!!"

But because my boss is a normal person, he's capable of accepting that I don't share his beliefs and accepts that I sit quietly during the prayer without taking it as an offense to either himself or his religion. Because that's how normal people react in situations like that.

I understand that veterans and non-veterans and all kinds of other people are patriotic. I don't have any issue with it.

The issue here isn't that people are intolerant of patriotism. The issue here is that some self-styled patriots are intolerant of those who don't share their patriotism.

 -k


What you have to understand is that we as Canadians usually couldn't give a **** about our flag or anything remotely close to patriotism, that's Canada, and most of hate pride.  However, I can understand that many, in fact most Americans do see any and all desecration of their flag/anthem ...whatever to be a strict nono.  So yes, for many Americans, kneeling before the anthem is equal to spitting on or burning the flag - you may not agree, but the majority of Americans do agree. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 28, 2017, 11:03:50 pm
I honestly think that's a load of crap.

If Colin Kaepernick had told the media that he was kneeling during the anthem to pray to Jesus, people would not be offended, and many of them would be calling it a great thing. He'd have been the new Tim Tebow.

It's not the act of kneeling that people are mad at, it's his reason for kneeling.  People are mad at the message, not at how he delivered it.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 28, 2017, 11:20:49 pm
I honestly think that's a load of crap.

If Colin Kaepernick had told the media that he was kneeling during the anthem to pray to Jesus, people would not be offended, and many of them would be calling it a great thing. He'd have been the new Tim Tebow.

It's not the act of kneeling that people are mad at, it's his reason for kneeling.  People are mad at the message, not at how he delivered it.

 -k

Wrong again!  There is a college coach who was fired for kneeling in prayer and as far as Tebow, he was made the laughing stock of the NFL (some say blacklisted) for "tebowing".  Atheletes have protested many times in many ways, just look at the NBA.  This protest was lost in the "perceived" disrespect of the flag - plain and simple.

Green Bay and Chicago stood for the anthem tonight
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 28, 2017, 11:40:11 pm
Wrong again!  There is a college coach who was fired for kneeling in prayer and as far as Tebow, he was made the laughing stock of the NFL (some say blacklisted) for "tebowing". 
Tebow got "blacklisted" because he isn't very good. He was only a laughing-stock because the amount of hype put upon him was so out of proportion to his actual accomplishments... sort of a religious answer to Anna Kournikova.  Christian demogogues would have you believe he was run out of the league because the liberal media hates Christian, but lots of Christian players pray on the field during games.  Tebow isn't half the player that Kaepernick is, and Kaepernick isn't in the NFL anymore either.

Atheletes have protested many times in many ways, just look at the NBA.  This protest was lost in the "perceived" disrespect of the flag - plain and simple.

Ultimately the right to not salute the flag during the anthem is right at the top of the list of freedoms that real actual patriots fought and died for. 

Green Bay and Chicago stood for the anthem tonight

Good for them.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 29, 2017, 12:29:37 am
Tebow got "blacklisted" because he isn't very good. He was only a laughing-stock because the amount of hype put upon him was so out of proportion to his actual accomplishments... sort of a religious answer to Anna Kournikova.  Christian demogogues would have you believe he was run out of the league because the liberal media hates Christian, but lots of Christian players pray on the field during games.  Tebow isn't half the player that Kaepernick is, and Kaepernick isn't in the NFL anymore either.

Ultimately the right to not salute the flag during the anthem is right at the top of the list of freedoms that real actual patriots fought and died for. 

Good for them.

 -k

Well, as I said, you're not able to look any further than your own nose. 

Until you realize that the delivery or venue is just as important as the issue itself, you people will remain ignorant to the way society works.  This was a simple case of "wrong place, wrong time".  And, that is why it failed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 29, 2017, 01:13:46 am
Well, as I said, you're not able to look any further than your own nose. 

Until you realize that the delivery or venue is just as important as the issue itself, you people will remain ignorant to the way society works.  This was a simple case of "wrong place, wrong time".  And, that is why it failed.

It seems more like you would rather be led by the nose. Your narrow minded idea of patriotism seems to be simply putting your hand over your heart and singing along with everybody else, no matter what. Racism clearly exists in the US to this day, perhaps if you had walked a mile in a black mans shoes you might be a little more aware of that fact.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 29, 2017, 11:22:00 am
I hate it when prissy leftist progressives make me side with the Trumps but they keep doing it.

As part of a program to send books to school libararies the White House picked out one high-achieving school in each state and they got a little package of books, in this case Dr. Seuss books, chosen by Melania Trump because she loved reading them to her kids. The school ibrarian rejected the books as racist, and sent a letter, which she duly made public, telling Trump she should send them to poor schools harmed by her husband's racist policies.

I know Trump is being a sometimes deliberately divisive figure, but the Left in the US is eagerly doing its share to add to that environment.

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/school-librarian-rejects-melania-trumps-gift-of-racist-dr-seuss-books (http://nationalpost.com/news/world/school-librarian-rejects-melania-trumps-gift-of-racist-dr-seuss-books)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on September 29, 2017, 01:37:19 pm
That's not siding with Trump - that's siding against idiots.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 29, 2017, 02:20:05 pm
The librarian is an idiot...  Not everything is "taking sides"....  unless of course, taking a partisan viewpoint is what you do with most of your decisions/opinions.... 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 30, 2017, 01:13:50 pm
Well, as I said, you're not able to look any further than your own nose. 

Until you realize that the delivery or venue is just as important as the issue itself, you people will remain ignorant to the way society works.  This was a simple case of "wrong place, wrong time".  And, that is why it failed.

If people were really that offended about the flag, Kid Rock would have been shot by now for wearing the flag as a wife-beater t-shirt. Turning the flag into bikini-bottoms and Speedos is more insulting to the flag than refusing to salute during the anthem.

Some people are mad at the players who did this because they feel the players are attacking America itself.  The people who have booed the players for this are the same kind of people who shouted "Love it or leave it!" at people protesting the Vietnam war or the Iraq war. These are the shallow thinkers who believe that speaking out against a policy or a problem in America is the same as denouncing America itself.


You make it sound like these folks would be willing to talk about this issue if only those darned football players would stop insulting the flag. The truth is that those people aren't booing because they want to have that conversation in some other venue at some other time, they are booing because they don't want to have that conversation, period.   People have been trying to have this conversation for years, and the only time it ever actually comes to the fore is when somebody creates a controversy too big to ignore.  Riots in Ferguson? Ok, let's talk... just please stop destroying the city.  Riots in Baltimore? Ok, let's talk... just please stop destroying the city.  Athletes protesting at football games? Ok, let's talk... just please stop destroying -- wait, what were they destroying? Nevermind, just please stop doing that, and then we can talk. The truth is they don't want to talk, they just want to go back to ignoring the problem.  The supposed indignation over the flag is just an effort to rationalize opposition to these protests. "We can't say we oppose their right to express themselves, because that would be unAmerican. We can't say that race isn't an issue in America, because that would be stupid. We need an excuse to explain why we're so mad about this."

You think these protests have alienated people who might otherwise be willing to listen to the issue.

I think these protests have angered people who would otherwise completely ignore the issue.



 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on September 30, 2017, 01:24:13 pm

The truth is they don't want to talk, they just want to go back to ignoring the problem. 


Very good post.

Re the quote above, I would say the issue is deeper than ignoring it, they outright deny it and blame black people for getting themselves killed.

I don't even participate in this debate anymore because it infuriates me so much when I read that it's ok to kill innocent black people because some other black people commit crimes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 30, 2017, 01:45:21 pm
It's a recognition of human nature. I've seen countless videos of violent police interaction with people - especially blacks, but not only them. There are damned few where the civilian was polite and cooperative and was subjected to violence.

And calling Chris Rock's statement support of an 'extrajudicial execution' is kind of an exaggeration, don't you think?

Here's the message I was reacting to... and I have bolded the portion I was addressing:
He's a wack job, just to begin with. And his 'stand' is specifically about police killing Black criminals, which most of us right wingers aren't all that sympathetic to.

"if you see the red light in your rear view mirror, STOP IMMEDIATELY! Because everyone knows, if the police have to come get you, they're bringing an ass whooping with them."  - Chris Rock

When you say that, I imagine you're probably picturing somebody getting shot while fleeing a robbery with a gun in his hand. And I get that.  There are situations when force is fully justified.

The problem I have with your comment is that it equally describes situations like the death of Freddie Gray-- a guy  who was a criminal, but also a guy who was shackled hand and foot and locked inside the back of a police van at the time the fatal injuries were inflicted upon him. Or the death of Robert Dziekanski, or any number of other situations where police got away with killing somebody with the most minimal of justifications.


My point about BLM is the same as in the cite in post #780, which pointed out that the only reason more Blacks are shot - percentage wise - than Whites is more Blacks are involved in violent crime - percentage wise - than whites.

There IS a problem with police training in the US and in Canada. They are taught to 'take command' and they are far more militaristic than they need to be or used to be. They are often far quicker to grab people instead of talking to them. They feel threatened much more easily, and when threatened go for their guns too quickly. But this is a universal issue, not a Black rights issue. Some shootings are definitely unjustified, and I say it when I see it. The Walter Scott shooting is probably the most famous involving Black Americans, but the shooting of Justine Damond was even more outrageous and indefensible, and didn't cause any riots because she was white.

For the most part I actually agree with what you're saying here.  I don't think police kill people because they're racists, I think they do it because they're not good at their job.  I don't think they get away with killing people because the system is racist, I think they get away with killing people because they cover up for each other, destroy evidence whenever possible, and do their level best to make sure that their buddies are never held responsible for anything, and they have a powerful union that will go to the wall to protect them as well.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 30, 2017, 02:09:07 pm
If people were really that offended about the flag, Kid Rock would have been shot by now for wearing the flag as a wife-beater t-shirt. Turning the flag into bikini-bottoms and Speedos is more insulting to the flag than refusing to salute during the anthem.

Some people are mad at the players who did this because they feel the players are attacking America itself.  The people who have booed the players for this are the same kind of people who shouted "Love it or leave it!" at people protesting the Vietnam war or the Iraq war. These are the shallow thinkers who believe that speaking out against a policy or a problem in America is the same as denouncing America itself.


You make it sound like these folks would be willing to talk about this issue if only those darned football players would stop insulting the flag. The truth is that those people aren't booing because they want to have that conversation in some other venue at some other time, they are booing because they don't want to have that conversation, period.   People have been trying to have this conversation for years, and the only time it ever actually comes to the fore is when somebody creates a controversy too big to ignore.  Riots in Ferguson? Ok, let's talk... just please stop destroying the city.  Riots in Baltimore? Ok, let's talk... just please stop destroying the city.  Athletes protesting at football games? Ok, let's talk... just please stop destroying -- wait, what were they destroying? Nevermind, just please stop doing that, and then we can talk. The truth is they don't want to talk, they just want to go back to ignoring the problem.  The supposed indignation over the flag is just an effort to rationalize opposition to these protests. "We can't say we oppose their right to express themselves, because that would be unAmerican. We can't say that race isn't an issue in America, because that would be stupid. We need an excuse to explain why we're so mad about this."

You think these protests have alienated people who might otherwise be willing to listen to the issue.

I think these protests have angered people who would otherwise completely ignore the issue.



 -k

As I said, it's all about the the "how", not necessarily the "what".  NFL fans believe, and you clearly disagree, that it is the game that brings Americans together.  They refuse to let it be held hostage to politics - that is what they're saying. 

"You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You'd better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow"

 - John Lennon


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 30, 2017, 02:37:29 pm
As I said, it's all about the the "how", not necessarily the "what".  NFL fans believe, and you clearly disagree, that it is the game that brings Americans together. 

I don't think NFL fans are a monolith. But I agree... those who are mad about this just want the players to shut up.

They refuse to let it be held hostage to politics - that is what they're saying. 

But they didn't seem to mind it being politicized when the US armed forces paid the league and the teams to hold "support the troops!" ceremonies during games.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 30, 2017, 02:48:12 pm
Very good post.

Re the quote above, I would say the issue is deeper than ignoring it, they outright deny it and blame black people for getting themselves killed.

I don't even participate in this debate anymore because it infuriates me so much when I read that it's ok to kill innocent black people because some other black people commit crimes.

Maybe you should learn to read less of your own ideological views into what people write. No one has said its okay to kill 'innocent' black people. I pointed out that people at large are a lot less concerned about what happens to criminals than to other people. If you disagree with this say so. I pointed out that of all the cases I've seen video on or heard about virtually every single one involved, not innocent black people but people telling armed cops to go **** themselves, and fighting to not be arrested. Do you deny this? If so say so. I'm sure you must have a lot of examples of innocent Black people just calmly walking along when some slavering bastard of a cop walks up and shoots them in the head.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 30, 2017, 03:08:30 pm
The problem I have with your comment is that it equally describes situations like the death of Freddie Gray-- a guy  who was a criminal, but also a guy who was shackled hand and foot and locked inside the back of a police van at the time the fatal injuries were inflicted upon him. Or the death of Robert Dziekanski, or any number of other situations where police got away with killing somebody with the most minimal of justifications.

Let me make it clearer then. There are gross violations of people's human rights all over the world every day, many of them absolutely horrific and against entirely innocent men, women and children. In the context of that, as a TV viewer not exposed personally to any of it, am I supposed to get upset that a lifelong criminal got bounced around in the back of a police van and died after resisting arrest? Do I think that's the way police should act? **** no. If you want to google Robert  Dzeikanzski on that other site I think I made my opinion of those cops very clear on multiple occasions. Admittedly, I had more sympathy for a bewildered polish guy than a criminal who ran from police, but in neither case did I or would I defend the cops involved. I don't think they intended to kill these two guys, mind you, but their behaviour was still unprofessional and led to death. In a more obvious case, the Sammy Yatim shooting in Toronto, I had more interest/indignation because it was here in Ontario, and I made my opinion clear of the idiot cop who shot him too. He was not an innocent, but probably had severe mental issues, and the shooting was entirely unnecessary.


Quote
For the most part I actually agree with what you're saying here.  I don't think police kill people because they're racists, I think they do it because they're not good at their job.

I think it usually happens because of the way they're trained. For example, police training is very, very firm on the concept that if anyone with a weapon of any kind, such as a knife, a bat, a pipe, a pair of scissors, anything that can kill or seriously injure gets within 20 feet, you shoot them. Furthermore, police use of force training focuses on noting the telltale signs of violence in a person, threatening gestures and movements, face, tone, on controlling the situation, and on firearms use. There is some training in unarmed combat, but very little. There is NO training in how to deal with an assailant armed with any sort of weapon because you're supposed to shoot them.

And police are constantly taught and trained to be on edge, to be alert for imminent attack. They are, in other words, taught to be paranoid, and then given a gun. And we're surprised when they occasionally shoot someone we'd rather they not have shot?

Quote
I don't think they get away with killing people because the system is racist, I think they get away with killing people because they cover up for each other, destroy evidence whenever possible, and do their level best to make sure that their buddies are never held responsible for anything, and they have a powerful union that will go to the wall to protect them as well.

There is some of that. But it's also that when it comes to a jury of middle class people who consider police their protectors its very easy to put themselves into the police situation - in most cases - and wonder if they'd shoot too. And if they wonder, then they're likely to not convict. That's especially true if the person shot was clearly some sort of criminal or resisting arrest.

Remember, nobody in any job fails to make mistakes. Cops are in jobs where they're going to make mistakes. And that's particularly so when violence is involved. So a lot of people are willing to cut them some slack in most situations. Neither the Sammy Yatim case, nor the Robert Dziekanski case such situations for me. Nor is the Justine Damond case.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 30, 2017, 03:15:06 pm
I don't think NFL fans are a monolith. But I agree... those who are mad about this just want the players to shut up.

But they didn't seem to mind it being politicized when the US armed forces paid the league and the teams to hold "support the troops!" ceremonies during games.

 -k

Wrong again!  That's exactly what they are.  That's what fans are in every sport.  It's especially true in terms of football, NFL and College.  Look at soccer in England or Scotland.  Cities like Manchester and Glasgow (among others) have 2 teams and the fans absolutely hate each other, but when they are playing for their country, they become "monolithic" England fans.  You can say the same thing about hockey in Canada. 

NFL is the top dog in the USA, maybe North America.  Fans of one team when at a game, don't care about politics, religion, race or anything else about the person next to them except that they're cheering the same team.  They bond over the common enemy - that being the other team (and their fans).  Fans for the most part want the players to hate each other too - until at least the end of the game, then everybody can rejoin "life".  That's the way it is; and if that changes, it ruins the NFL system.  When the players try to force this change, they're messing with they system.  Players shouldn't divide fans into race, they shouldn't preach they're disgust with the police or the current president. 

Now, one could say "they're doing this for unity", but is it?  Is it unity when players try to turn fans against police?  Is it unity to claim that NOT supporting the players is an act of racism?  Is it unity to protest the anthem/flag that so many fans believe strongly about, that they have suffered for or had family die for?  I know the cynic in you thinks it's a joke or manipulation, and being Canadian, I can see why.  However, to dismiss this as a bunch of brainwashed rubes is wrong, there is much more going on here that speaks to the social side of Americans - sports gives them unity already, It's Monday to Friday that needs changing - not Sunday!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 30, 2017, 03:21:48 pm
Maybe you should learn to read less of your own ideological views into what people write. No one has said its okay to kill 'innocent' black people. I pointed out that people at large are a lot less concerned about what happens to criminals than to other people. If you disagree with this say so. I pointed out that of all the cases I've seen video on or heard about virtually every single one involved, not innocent black people but people telling armed cops to go **** themselves, and fighting to not be arrested. Do you deny this? If so say so. I'm sure you must have a lot of examples of innocent Black people just calmly walking along when some slavering bastard of a cop walks up and shoots them in the head.

The fact you put quotes around innocent when referring to Black people pretty well sums up your position. As has been pointed out to you numerous times, let's let the courts decide who are criminals before they are penalized.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 30, 2017, 03:29:23 pm
The fact you put quotes around innocent when referring to Black people pretty well sums up your position. As has been pointed out to you numerous times, let's let the courts decide who are criminals before they are penalized.

When a person resists arrest and/or starts fighting a cop for possession of his gun, they stop being considered innocent.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 30, 2017, 03:52:24 pm
When a person resists arrest and/or starts fighting a cop for possession of his gun, they stop being considered innocent.

Agreed. As I've said before several times, very, very few people are shot while NOT resisting arrest. And if you're resisting arrest you're automatically a criminal.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 30, 2017, 04:22:36 pm
When a person resists arrest and/or starts fighting a cop for possession of his gun, they stop being considered innocent.

And when a cop shoots a 12 year old Black child playing in the park who happens to have a toy, or a Black man reaches for his DL when asked to present it to a cop while he's parked at a gas pump and gets shot, or when an unarmed Black man is arrested, shackled, and then thrown into the back of a paddy wagon with no seat belt and is then driven around wikdly until he sustains enough injury to kill him, who the **** stops being innocent then? Or is it just your view that if it's a Black man and a white cop it must be the Black's fault? No wonder NFL players take a knee.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 30, 2017, 04:50:48 pm
And when a cop shoots a 12 year old Black child playing in the park who happens to have a toy, or a Black man reaches for his DL when asked to present it to a cop while he's parked at a gas pump and gets shot, or when an unarmed Black man is arrested, shackled, and then thrown into the back of a paddy wagon with no seat belt and is then driven around wikdly until he sustains enough injury to kill him, who the **** stops being innocent then? Or is it just your view that if it's a Black man and a white cop it must be the Black's fault? No wonder NFL players take a knee.

All of which happens without regard to race. It's not a racial issue. The only people who want to make it a racial issue are Black activists and the Russians.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 30, 2017, 06:14:58 pm
And when a cop shoots a 12 year old Black child playing in the park who happens to have a toy, or a Black man reaches for his DL when asked to present it to a cop while he's parked at a gas pump and gets shot, or when an unarmed Black man is arrested, shackled, and then thrown into the back of a paddy wagon with no seat belt and is then driven around wikdly until he sustains enough injury to kill him, who the **** stops being innocent then? Or is it just your view that if it's a Black man and a white cop it must be the Black's fault? No wonder NFL players take a knee.

Dzikanski (sorry for the misspell) was white, I know of a few FN's as well as whites who have been shot and killed in Canada - most of which I disagree with.  Also, If twice as many whites are shot as blacks, it would stand to reason that the same proportion of inadvertent or wrongful shootings happen to white people - as in the Aussie woman from Minnesota.  I certainly don't want to excuse wrongful deaths at the hands of the police, and believe me, I know first hand of police brutality.  The point I'm making is that it's a circumstance thing, and by proportion, police are called to situations involving blacks at a higher proportion than whites, meaning that the offhand chance of a unfortunate police encounter is higher among blacks than whites. 

I'll also add that when we talk of this issue, we're generally talking "nation wide", where if you break it down by regions (urban/suburban) the picture becomes even more clear.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 30, 2017, 07:12:26 pm
Dzikanski (sorry for the misspell) was white, I know of a few FN's as well as whites who have been shot and killed in Canada - most of which I disagree with.  Also, If twice as many whites are shot as blacks, it would stand to reason that the same proportion of inadvertent or wrongful shootings happen to white people - as in the Aussie woman from Minnesota.  I certainly don't want to excuse wrongful deaths at the hands of the police, and believe me, I know first hand of police brutality.  The point I'm making is that it's a circumstance thing, and by proportion, police are called to situations involving blacks at a higher proportion than whites, meaning that the offhand chance of a unfortunate police encounter is higher among blacks than whites. 

I'll also add that when we talk of this issue, we're generally talking "nation wide", where if you break it down by regions (urban/suburban) the picture becomes even more clear.

Police, especially in the US have demonstrated many times they do not seem to have an ability to de-escalate a situation. Dash cams have often demonstrated the opposite. That seems to me to go to their lack of training. Isuspect also that there are a lot of cops who shouldn't be cops. To quite Plato, "those who seek power are often unsuited to wield it"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on September 30, 2017, 07:37:53 pm
All of which happens without regard to race. It's not a racial issue. The only people who want to make it a racial issue are Black activists and the Russians.

Of course it's a racial issue.  These things don't happen to white people.  They aren't things we have to worry about.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 30, 2017, 07:43:42 pm
Of course it's a racial issue.  These things don't happen to white people.  They aren't things we have to worry about.

Your certitude indicates you've spent a lot of time thinking about this...so, maybe you can answer a couple questions.

How do you explain the discrepancy of male:female police shooting victims?
How do you explain the discrepancy of below poverty:above poverty police shooting victims?
How do you explain the discrepancy of inner city:suburban police shooting victims?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on September 30, 2017, 08:18:41 pm
There are always other factors.  It doesn't make it any less of a racial issue.  It doesn't make the dismissal of it any less of a racial issue, either.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 30, 2017, 08:23:12 pm
There are always other factors.  It doesn't make it any less of a racial issue.  It doesn't make the dismissal of it any less of a racial issue, either.

3 questions, that's all i'm asking.  Should be simple for a smart guy like you!

How do you explain the discrepancy of male:female police shooting victims?
How do you explain the discrepancy of below poverty:above poverty police shooting victims?
How do you explain the discrepancy of inner city:suburban police shooting victims?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on September 30, 2017, 08:31:09 pm
I'll say it again - dismissing it as not a racial issue doesn't make it any less of a racial issue.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 30, 2017, 08:34:49 pm
I'll say it again - dismissing it as not a racial issue doesn't make it any less of a racial issue.

Ok, maybe you're not as smart as I thought, I'll simplify; why do more men get killed from police than women?  If you want it to be about race, then answer this; why do more black men get killed from police than black women?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 30, 2017, 09:06:50 pm
Of course it's a racial issue.  These things don't happen to white people.  They aren't things we have to worry about.

They don't happen to white people? Are you trying to be ironic or are you putting trolling posts in the wrong topic?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on September 30, 2017, 09:09:53 pm
They don't happen to white people? Are you trying to be ironic or are you putting trolling posts in the wrong topic?

Of course they happen to some white people.  Just not many, or often.

There are a lot of racist people in the world even today.  Some of them happen to be police officers.  Sometimes, it's not such an accident that they're police officers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on September 30, 2017, 09:19:21 pm
Of course they happen to some white people.  Just not many, or often.

There are a lot of racist people in the world even today.  Some of them happen to be police officers.  Sometimes, it's not such an accident that they're police officers.

Sorry, didn't mean to embarrass you, I really thought you had something (you know, facts..or at least an hypothesis) other than the same tired cliche.

Anyway, that's an open question to anyone here, we'll see what theories are out there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 01, 2017, 01:54:14 pm
Wrong again!  That's exactly what they are.  That's what fans are in every sport.  It's especially true in terms of football, NFL and College.  (...)  They bond over the common enemy - that being the other team (and their fans).  Fans for the most part want the players to hate each other too - until at least the end of the game, then everybody can rejoin "life".  That's the way it is; and if that changes, it ruins the NFL system.  When the players try to force this change, they're messing with they system.

Yes, the feeling of common cause with other fans of your sports team is part of the excitement of the whole experience. I've written about this before... I believe that we're hard-wired to form "tribes" around "causes", and that in our modern world where we don't have real tribes anymore, we form fake tribes-- around things like sports teams, or religions, or political and social causes, or even conspiracy theories.

But it's certainly not the case that Falcons fans all feel the same about this issue, and it's also probably not the case that this issue is viewed the same way in Atlanta as it is seen in Baltimore or in Seattle.

Players shouldn't divide fans into race,

Why would this issue divide fans by race?  Is there some race out there that's in favor of police brutality? I'm not aware of such a race.

they shouldn't preach they're disgust with the police or the current president. 

I don't think anybody said anything about the President until the President inserted himself quite loudly into this debate by calling players "sons of ****" and telling NFL owners that they should fire players who don't stand during the anthem.

As for being disgusted with police... should NFL players refrain from addressing that when they're on the playing field? Or should they refrain from addressing it at any time, 24/7/365?


And this notion that players shouldn't use their position to express personal views... does that apply to any personal views, or does it only apply to personal views that you don't agree with?  I ask because, once again, many of the people saying the players should just shut up and play football thought it was great when Tim Tebow was using his platform to promote his faith.

"It's great that Tim Tebow is using this opportunity to start a conversation about Jesus!" 
"It's terrible that Colin Kaepernick is using the NFL as a platform for his own personal views."

And I'll grant you that some of the people who thought Tim Tebow was being ridiculous are probably saying the opposite about the players protesting during the anthem, and they're hypocrites as well.

And, I again have to ask: how come all these people who are saying "keep politics out of football!" didn't have anything to say when the US Armed Forces were paying the league millions of dollars to turn games into recruitment advertising?

Now, one could say "they're doing this for unity", but is it?  Is it unity when players try to turn fans against police? 

I'm not sure who's saying "they're doing this for unity".  I think everybody understands that there is some controversy here... if there wasn't, they wouldn't need to do this in the first place.

And the notion that they're "trying to turn fans against police" is a complete misrepresentation of the message here.

Is it unity to claim that NOT supporting the players is an act of racism?  Is it unity to protest the anthem/flag that so many fans believe strongly about, that they have suffered for or had family die for?  I know the cynic in you thinks it's a joke or manipulation, and being Canadian, I can see why. 

To be clear: I think the manipulator here is the President.  The guy who fanned what had been a relatively low-key issue into a national controversy by calling the players "sons of ****" during his angry rant. People who got all fired up about this because Trump turned it into a big deal are the ones being manipulated.

However, to dismiss this as a bunch of brainwashed rubes is wrong, there is much more going on here that speaks to the social side of Americans - sports gives them unity already, It's Monday to Friday that needs changing - not Sunday!

If people gave a **** about this Monday-to-Friday, this wouldn't be an issue on Sunday. People want the players to shut up about it so that they can ignore the issue seven days a week instead of just six.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 01, 2017, 02:01:57 pm
"They are shooting black people, but don't show somebody kneeling during the national anthem..."

No wonder they have to protest.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on October 01, 2017, 02:12:02 pm
"They are shooting black people, but don't show somebody kneeling during the national anthem..."

No wonder they have to protest.

No, the police are shooting men.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 01, 2017, 02:14:04 pm
Of course they happen to some white people.  Just not many, or often.

In fact, they shoot White people a lot more often than Black people. If you read the cite I provided you would know that.

Quote
There are a lot of racist people in the world even today.  Some of them happen to be police officers.  Sometimes, it's not such an accident that they're police officers.

Pretty irrelevant when you have thus far completely failed to show racism involved in the shootings.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on October 01, 2017, 02:16:05 pm
In fact, they shoot White people a lot more often than Black people. If you read the cite I provided you would know that.

Pretty irrelevant when you have thus far completely failed to show racism involved in the shootings.

Of course, we know that police shoot blacks in disproportionate numbers.  Don't let that stop your denial.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on October 01, 2017, 02:19:03 pm
Yes, the feeling of common cause with other fans of your sports team is part of the excitement of the whole experience. I've written about this before... I believe that we're hard-wired to form "tribes" around "causes", and that in our modern world where we don't have real tribes anymore, we form fake tribes-- around things like sports teams, or religions, or political and social causes, or even conspiracy theories.

But it's certainly not the case that Falcons fans all feel the same about this issue, and it's also probably not the case that this issue is viewed the same way in Atlanta as it is seen in Baltimore or in Seattle.

Why would this issue divide fans by race?  Is there some race out there that's in favor of police brutality? I'm not aware of such a race.

I don't think anybody said anything about the President until the President inserted himself quite loudly into this debate by calling players "sons of ****" and telling NFL owners that they should fire players who don't stand during the anthem.

As for being disgusted with police... should NFL players refrain from addressing that when they're on the playing field? Or should they refrain from addressing it at any time, 24/7/365?


And this notion that players shouldn't use their position to express personal views... does that apply to any personal views, or does it only apply to personal views that you don't agree with?  I ask because, once again, many of the people saying the players should just shut up and play football thought it was great when Tim Tebow was using his platform to promote his faith.

"It's great that Tim Tebow is using this opportunity to start a conversation about Jesus!" 
"It's terrible that Colin Kaepernick is using the NFL as a platform for his own personal views."

And I'll grant you that some of the people who thought Tim Tebow was being ridiculous are probably saying the opposite about the players protesting during the anthem, and they're hypocrites as well.

And, I again have to ask: how come all these people who are saying "keep politics out of football!" didn't have anything to say when the US Armed Forces were paying the league millions of dollars to turn games into recruitment advertising?

I'm not sure who's saying "they're doing this for unity".  I think everybody understands that there is some controversy here... if there wasn't, they wouldn't need to do this in the first place.

And the notion that they're "trying to turn fans against police" is a complete misrepresentation of the message here.

To be clear: I think the manipulator here is the President.  The guy who fanned what had been a relatively low-key issue into a national controversy by calling the players "sons of ****" during his angry rant. People who got all fired up about this because Trump turned it into a big deal are the ones being manipulated.

If people gave a **** about this Monday-to-Friday, this wouldn't be an issue on Sunday. People want the players to shut up about it so that they can ignore the issue seven days a week instead of just six.

 -k

I know you're arguing me here, but i'm just trying to help you understand what the American fans are saying - you don't believe it, but the evidence proves the point.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 01, 2017, 02:20:28 pm
"They are shooting black people, but don't show somebody kneeling during the national anthem..."

No wonder they have to protest.

To be more specific, the police are shooting black criminals, mostly who resist arrest. Meanwhile, twenty seven people were shot in Chicago this weekend, several killed, almost all of them Black, almost all by Blacks. Some of them were criminals, and some weren't. But nobody seems to have much care about that. It was almost an improvement over last weekend, when 36 mostly Black people were shot by mostly Black people. Blacks commit violent crimes at 7-10 times the statistical rate as Whtes. White police killed 258 Blacks last year, most of them armed, while 6,000 Blacks were murdered by other Blacks.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler (http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on October 01, 2017, 02:20:45 pm
Of course, we know that police shoot blacks in disproportionate numbers.  Don't let that stop your denial.

They also shoot men in disproportionate numbers - the real question, one that you avoid is why?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 01, 2017, 02:21:52 pm
Of course, we know that police shoot blacks in disproportionate numbers.  Don't let that stop your denial.

Of course we know that Blacks commit violent crimes in disproportionate numbers, especially shootings, which means that they're going to be interacting violently with police in disproportionate numbers, but don't let that stop your denial.

From the cite in post 780

"The black violent crime rate would actually predict that more than 26 percent of police victims would be black," MacDonald said. "Officer use of force will occur where the police interact most often with violent criminals, armed suspects, and those resisting arrest, and that is in black neighborhoods."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 01, 2017, 02:31:08 pm
Of course we know that Blacks commit violent crimes in disproportionate numbers, especially shootings, which means that they're going to be interacting violently with police in disproportionate numbers, but don't let that stop your denial.

From the cite in post 780

"The black violent crime rate would actually predict that more than 26 percent of police victims would be black," MacDonald said. "Officer use of force will occur where the police interact most often with violent criminals, armed suspects, and those resisting arrest, and that is in black neighborhoods."

I guess when you look at race issues with such a jaundiced eye you believe that all Blacks who have any inter action with a White cop must be at a "criminal" and at fault, even if they are 12 years old playing in a park. Sad.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 01, 2017, 02:32:53 pm
They also shoot men in disproportionate numbers - the real question, one that you avoid is why?

Do they ?  I haven't seen that submitted.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on October 01, 2017, 02:39:21 pm
To be more specific, the police are shooting black criminals, mostly who resist arrest.
The penalty for resisting arrest isn’t death, especially when these PEOPLE are unarmed and no immediate threat to those around them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on October 01, 2017, 02:58:52 pm
Do they ?  I haven't seen that submitted.

You really need a cite to tell you that more men get killed by police than women?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on October 01, 2017, 03:00:19 pm
The penalty for resisting arrest isn’t death, especially when these PEOPLE are unarmed and no immediate threat to those around them.

It is if the person resisting is fighting for a cops gun. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 01, 2017, 04:12:34 pm
You really need a cite to tell you that more men get killed by police than women?

Hal... do I really need to tell you that 'more' and 'disproportionate' don't mean the same **** thing ?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 01, 2017, 04:20:31 pm
Hal... do I really need to tell you that 'more' and 'disproportionate' don't mean the same **** thing ?

Disproportionate to what?

"The black violent crime rate would actually predict that more than 26 percent of police victims would be black," MacDonald said. "Officer use of force will occur where the police interact most often with violent criminals, armed suspects, and those resisting arrest, and that is in black neighborhoods."

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 01, 2017, 04:22:28 pm
The penalty for resisting arrest isn’t death, especially when these PEOPLE are unarmed and no immediate threat to those around them.

Sometimes the penalty is death when you're dealing with emotionally charged situations with hyped up young men and women armed with firearms and who don't have a lot of training. So if some cop (or anyone else) is pointing a gun at you and screaming at you to put your hands in the air, or drop that knife or whatever... maybe you ought to consider doing that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 01, 2017, 04:28:52 pm
Disproportionate to what?

I would pick 'rate of incarceration' so as to isolate variables but tell me if you disagree.
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 01, 2017, 04:36:45 pm
I would pick 'rate of incarceration' so as to isolate variables but tell me if you disagree.

I would compare the rate to the rate of Black violence, especially gun violence. Seems to stand to reason that if Blacks are involved in gun violence a lot more then they'll be involved in shootings with police a lot more.

But I think the quote I posted sums up my belief on this subject best.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 01, 2017, 05:24:14 pm
Let me make it clearer then. There are gross violations of people's human rights all over the world every day, many of them absolutely horrific and against entirely innocent men, women and children. In the context of that, as a TV viewer not exposed personally to any of it, am I supposed to get upset that a lifelong criminal got bounced around in the back of a police van and died after resisting arrest? Do I think that's the way police should act? **** no. If you want to google Robert  Dzeikanzski on that other site I think I made my opinion of those cops very clear on multiple occasions.

Yeah, I know you've denounced specific incidents. But there's a bigger issue here, and I'm not sure if you're seeing it.

The reason I lost faith in the RCMP after the Dziekanski incident isn't that one cop accidentally killed one suspect. The reason I lost faith in the RCMP after the Dziekanski incident is all the stuff that happened afterward.

People are content to say "well, it's just one bad apple..."  but how many bad apples were really involved in turning it into the national disgrace it became?  There was Konstable Kwesi, obviously, the Tazer-enthusiast who directly caused Dziekanski's death.  There's the 4 other officers who cooked up a false account of the incident that they presented to investigators who cleared Konstable Kwesi of wrongdoing. There's the investigators themselves, who whitewashed the incident, even though they were in possession of the now-famous video which proved that the account Konstable Kwesi and his colleagues gave was false. There's RCMP media spokesmen like Pierre Lamaitre and Tim Shields who went in front of the media and willfully distributed false information about the information, and distributed information defamatory to the victim in an attempt to justify the killing.  There's the RCMP lawyers who went to court try to keep that now-famous video from being made public, and there's the leadership who decided that trying to prevent that video from being released was the right thing to do.

That isn't one bad apple! That's a whole heck of a lot of bad apples!

And then we got the Braidwood Inquiry, and got even more bad apples, as the RCMP got caught withholding damning emails from Judge Braidwood.

And the eventual result of all this is that Konstable Kwesi got a slap on the wrist sentence for perjury, and one RCMP lawyer lost her job. One of Kwesi's colleagues, Monty Robinson, lost his job later when he ran over a motorcyclist then ran home to drink a bottle of vodka "to calm his nerves" then returned to the scene of the crime, take his breathalyzer test (which revealed that he'd just drunk a bottle of vodka, but could no longer yield any information about how drunk Robinson was while driving, so Robinson got off with a stern finger-wagging from the judge for obstruction of justice). Propaganda officer Tim Shields is currently being investigated for sexually assaulting female officers working under his supervision. And Pierre Lemaitre committed suicide. His widow is suing the RCMP, claiming his death was a result of him being made the scapegoat for the RCMP's lying to the press over the Dziekanski affair.

On the surface, the Dziekanski incident looks like a story about an over-enthusiastic cop who accidentally killed a guy.

But it's actually about a culture with widespread rot and corruption from the root to the highest levels, and they would have got away with all of it if it hadn't been for one guy who went to court to get his cell phone back from the police.

And they still got away with almost all of it.  Konstable Kwesi paid with a few months of jailtime for perjury, a lawyer lost her job. And Pierre Lemaitre paid with his conscience and ultimately his life.  And I'm sure several others involved also suffered terrible punishments like Paid Administrative Leave and Mandatory Sensitivity Training.

And that's appalling.   That's not "a few bad apples", that's a whole culture of sickness.

The phrase "one bad apple" isn't supposed to justify the good apples. It doesn't mean "ok, Kwesi's a bad apple, but they're mostly good," as people tend to use it. The phrase is "don't let one bad apple spoil the whole bunch", and it means that you're supposed to go through your crate and find the rotten apple and get rid of it before the rot spreads to the rest. And I think we learned from the Dziekanski incident that the rot has spread throughout the RCMP.



As for Baltimore, I am sure that many people are content to look at it as just a story of one dumb thug who died during an arrest. But that's not the whole story.

He didn't die during the arrest, or while resisting arrest. He was arrested and secured and posed no threat to anyone. The injuries weren't inflicted during a struggle of any sort, they were inflicted after the struggle. To "teach him a lesson".   And maybe it's tempting to think it's still not that big a deal because the cops involved didn't mean to kill him, they just wanted to rough him up a little so that he'd be smarter next time.

But it's not the first time Baltimore PD have done something like that. The Baltimore PD "rough ride" or "nickel ride" is a tradition that goes back decades.  It's not even the first time the Baltimore PD has killed people during a "rough ride".  Baltimore taxpayers have shelled out tens of millions of dollars over the years settling lawsuits. You might not sympathize much with criminals who get roughed up by cops, but I know you sympathize with taxpayers who get nothing for their civic tax dollars except paying the bill for police shenanigans while the police themselves escape any and all accountability.  The Baltimore PD was ordered to install video cameras inside their vans to deter this kind of thing... somehow they never got around to installing them.

None of the police involved in the death of Freddie Gray received any jail time or punishment. I believe they received a stern finger-wagging for failing to observe the Baltimore PD seat-belt policy for prisoners. Perhaps some of them received the dreaded Paid Administrative Duty or Sensitivity Training.  But they're all still patrolling the streets of Baltimore.

The prosecutor could not prove that any of them deliberately inflicted injuries on Gray. They could only find a few snippets of video evidence of the van, nothing that proved it was being driven recklessly... the didn't have any conclusive proof that Gray was denied medical care when his injuries became apparent. There were specific requirements for the prosecutors to meet to obtain convictions for each of the officers involved, and none of them could be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

But the city knew that when it came to the civil lawsuit, they didn't have a chance. Gray entered the van in one piece, he exited the van with a snapped spine and a smashed up head, and everybody knows what happened in between. There might not have been enough proof to convict "beyond a reasonable doubt", but when you get to civil court and the burden changes, "there's no other plausible explanation" for what happened to Gray is easily enough to win a civil suit, and the city didn't even try to pretend otherwise, they just wrote Gray's family a cheque for $6 million dollars, knowing full well that they'd probably have to pay more if it went to court.

One think I think is very interesting about the case is that a few days after the controversy became well known and people were protesting in the streets, the police department announced there was a witness, who they said had been in the van at the same time as Gray, and who claimed he had heard Gray deliberately banging his head against the walls of the van.  This was trumpeted among people on "the right" as being proof that the police were innocent and that Gray's injuries were self inflicted.

Reporters found that a 2nd passenger had indeed been put into the van, in a 2nd compartment separate from Gray, in the final few minutes of Gray's long ride. They tracked down this supposed witness and the man said that he had never heard any such thing while in the van. And this angle was quickly lost in all the other hub-bub surrounding the story.

But during the trial of the officers, we discovered that by the time this supposed witness had been put in the van, Gray's medical condition had become so severe that there was no possibility that he had done what the police said the supposed witness told them.  By the time the 2nd witness was put in the van, it was medically impossible for Gray to have been banging his head against the wall. So what's up with the police saying this supposed witness told them something that couldn't have actually happened, and that he himself denies having said?   This made me think, once again, of the RCMP and the lies they told during the aftermath of the Dziekanski slaying.

Is the death of Freddie Gray just an isolated incident, or is it the result of long-standing problems in a police department that actually has a long history of officers inflicting injuries on people just for laughs? I suggest that if you think it's just an isolated boo-boo you're terribly naive.

I'm sure that the officers involved in killing Gray were drinking beers and laughing about it after the last of them was acquitted. None of the $6 million came out of their pockets. And you know that when they go on the camera and wipe away tears and talk about how sad they are that Freddie died, what they mean is that they're really sad that they've been charged with his death.

However, I bet that the Baltimore PD did eventually get around to installing those cameras in their vans this time.  It did take national media attention and half the city getting burned down, but I bet they finally got those cameras installed.

Remember, nobody in any job fails to make mistakes. Cops are in jobs where they're going to make mistakes. And that's particularly so when violence is involved. So a lot of people are willing to cut them some slack in most situations. Neither the Sammy Yatim case, nor the Robert Dziekanski case such situations for me. Nor is the Justine Damond case.

I understand those mistakes, during struggle or in the heat of the moment.  But that's not what upsets me.  What upsets me is the coverup and lies and and "blue shield" code and all of that stuff. Kwesi Millington's actions on the night Robert Dziekanski died didn't have to turn into a national disgrace. It didn't even have to be the end of Millington's career. It was the decisions made afterward that turned it into what it became.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on October 01, 2017, 05:57:10 pm
Hal... do I really need to tell you that 'more' and 'disproportionate' don't mean the same **** thing ?

But, it's clearly disproportionate as well?  You're just another one who can't answer the question!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 01, 2017, 06:14:47 pm
Yeah, I know you've denounced specific incidents. But there's a bigger issue here, and I'm not sure if you're seeing it.

Seen it, commented on it before. I said at the time that not only should all four of them be fired but so should the RCMP officers who defended them, including the 'use of force' sergeant who testified at the inquest that they followed procedure. I was also bloody mad at all the mess at the G20, not just the cops who arrested people or assaulted people for no justifiable reason, but all the others who testified afterward that the didn't see anything, or didn't see what happened.

Why does this happen? Because it's the nature of a paramilitary organization which cherishes esprit de corps and machismo to see itself as elite, and to see itself as a brotherhood (and sisterhood), as us against 'them' whoever the them is. I have heard that nobody really understands police like police, and because of that they tend to gravitate towards each other even outside of work, as friends. As such, we see numerous instances where cops cover up for what other cops are doing, or even lie on their behalf. I don't know what to do about that other than equipping them all with cameras they can't turn off, and firing anyone whose official report conflicts with his camera.

West Point has an honor code which says that you'll be kicked out not simply for lying, cheating or stealing, but if you fail to report another cadet for violating the honor code  in some way. I don't know if the police are taught something similar when they're in training and don't know if it works, but we should certainly hold police to at least the same code. And we don't. For example, when a police officer is being investigated for shooting someone by an external agency (in Ontario it's the SIU) they usually refuse to cooperate and often refuse to be interviewed. The cop in Minneapolis who shot Justine Damon has, to this day, refused to give any statement as to what happened, and he's still employed, even if on suspension.

This is not just a matter of low ranking officers either. In Ontario, the SIU has complained about a lack of cooperation from Ontario police forces on a variety of investigations. As far as I'm concerned this should absolutely be a legal requirement.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2011/02/22/star_exclusive_police_ignore_sius_probes.html (https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2011/02/22/star_exclusive_police_ignore_sius_probes.html)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 01, 2017, 06:41:11 pm
So since this thread was supposed to having something to do with Trump does anybody care to project on how he will be rec'd in San Juan Tuesday after his ridiculously stupid/offensive tweets he has sent out about the issues there of late? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 01, 2017, 06:58:46 pm
I would compare the rate to the rate of Black violence, especially gun violence. Seems to stand to reason that if Blacks are involved in gun violence a lot more then they'll be involved in shootings with police a lot more.

I don't think I agree.  While it would explain police bias towards a black subject, it wouldn't give you a clear indicator of how often the core event happens.  You could measure both, though.

The main problem here is political.  If you're thinking that finding a stat that satisfies you, or me, as to the 'reason' will help move this to resolution then you're wrong.
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 01, 2017, 09:56:41 pm
I'm going to respond to the police stuff in another thread, because I think it's an interesting topic and not much to do with Trump, other than that he brought himself into it as a matter of political expediency to deflect from his many, many problems and shortcomings.

Regarding Puerto Rico, this is just more typical Trump in action.
 Step 1. Trump does a crap job.
 Step 2. Someone complains that Trump is doing a crap job.
 Step 3. Trump can't deal with criticism so he has a meltdown and goes on a Twitter rampage.
 Step 4. Trumptards and Trump-friendly media freak out and go on the attack to destroy the enemies of Dear Leader.

You can be sure that right now the propagandists at Breitpravda and Sean Hannity Patriot Hour are going all-out to dig up any possible angle they can use for character-assassination of the mayor of San Juan.  "She got busted for underage drinking when she was in college! Get her!" "She drove 60 in a 55 zone! She's a fraud!" 

I haven't checked Breitpravda yet, but I know that they're going to find some reason to explain why she is actually a terrible person. Why? Because she criticized the Orange Overlord. Unthinkable! How dare she!

"It's literally an island, surrounded by big water! Ocean water!"   What can you even say about that? It's toddler-like.  Is he senile?

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on October 01, 2017, 10:07:07 pm
A little off topic question for you, kimmy.

When you write posts like you did on the last page, full of details and names, are you going by memory or do you dig up old articles and put together your post?

That was a pretty impressive little dissertation!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 01, 2017, 10:48:45 pm
A little off topic question for you, kimmy.

When you write posts like you did on the last page, full of details and names, are you going by memory or do you dig up old articles and put together your post?

That was a pretty impressive little dissertation!
Thanks!  That was mostly from memory... I've written about the Dziekanski incident several times before, so I remembered a lot of it. I was reading about the Freddie Gray incident recently and have written about that a few times before as well. I did fact check a couple of things. I had to look up Monty Robinson because I couldn't remember off the top of my head which of Kwesi's buddies ran over the motorcycle driver and drank a bottle of vodka afterward.  And I can't actually remember what Kwesi ultimately got sentenced to. I think in the past I said he got a $50 fine for loitering, which I know isn't true, but it might actually have been more severe than the penalty he actually received.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 02, 2017, 05:56:50 am
Agree with the props for Kim ~~~

Also agree with another thread for policing.  Will start it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on October 02, 2017, 09:53:49 am
It is if the person resisting is fighting for a cops gun.

https://youtu.be/B3RJUMm-hd0
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on October 02, 2017, 11:09:59 pm
https://youtu.be/B3RJUMm-hd0

Yeah, that's a good clip.  However, I was talking about the cases like Michael Brown and such where the criminal deserved to be shot even though he actually had no gun.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 02, 2017, 11:40:28 pm
Yeah, that's a good clip.  However, I was talking about the cases like Michael Brown and such where the criminal deserved to be shot even though he actually had no gun.

I suggest staying away from any role in real politics and stick to  enjoying your cartoons. Yeah.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on October 03, 2017, 08:08:26 am
Yeah, that's a good clip.  However, I was talking about the cases like Michael Brown and such where the criminal deserved to be shot even though he actually had no gun.
"Criminals" are not criminals until they're convicted by a court and even then the court makes mistakes on a not insignificant number of cases. Extrajudicial executions are not something to be lauded.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 03, 2017, 12:09:57 pm
So since this thread was supposed to having something to do with Trump does anybody care to project on how he will be rec'd in San Juan Tuesday after his ridiculously stupid/offensive tweets he has sent out about the issues there of late?

Hung up naked by his ankles would be nice, like the bloated walrus he is.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 03, 2017, 12:18:55 pm
I'm going to respond to the police stuff in another thread, because I think it's an interesting topic and not much to do with Trump, other than that he brought himself into it as a matter of political expediency to deflect from his many, many problems and shortcomings.

Regarding Puerto Rico, this is just more typical Trump in action.
 Step 1. Trump does a crap job.
 Step 2. Someone complains that Trump is doing a crap job.

She didn't even complain about Trump. She complained that his deputy homeland security chick said that it was a 'good news story', which was eye poppingly stupid and deserved to be ridiculed.

Quote
Step 3. Trump can't deal with criticism so he has a meltdown and goes on a Twitter rampage.

Trump can't deal with any criticism of him or his government by a woman.

Quote
Step 4. Trumptards and Trump-friendly media freak out and go on the attack to destroy the enemies of Dear Leader.

I swear that on Fox on the weekend one of the Fox news bimbos said that the real problem was that unionized truck drivers were on strike in puerto rico, and that they were refusing to deliver any relief supplies unless they were paid $50 an hour. I was like "wwhha?" I googled it and the best I could come up with was some mention of a strike on some kooky alt right site. No legitimate reporter or agency has reported anything.

She is sleeping on a cot and helping deliver supplies herself while fat boy is slurping champagne at a golf club and talking about her poor leadership. There just doesn't seem to be any depth he can't push past on his way down.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 03, 2017, 12:19:54 pm
"Criminals" are not criminals until they're convicted by a court and even then the court makes mistakes on a not insignificant number of cases. Extrajudicial executions are not something to be lauded.

If some giant thug is attacking me and I have a gun I'm going to shoot him in the face without regard to whether he has been properly convicted by a jury of his peers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 03, 2017, 12:25:59 pm
If some giant thug is attacking me and I have a gun I'm going to shoot him in the face without regard to whether he has been properly convicted by a jury of his peers.

Agani, if that were the case in all police shootings, nobody would be complaining. Unfortunately it often isn't the case.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 03, 2017, 12:29:19 pm
Agani, if that were the case in all police shootings, nobody would be complaining. Unfortunately it often isn't the case.

Nobody? This was the one which started the whole BLM thing with hands up don't shoot and all that crap.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 03, 2017, 01:02:15 pm
Nobody? This was the one which started the whole BLM thing with hands up don't shoot and all that crap.

You don't think a 12 year old being shot while playing in the park, or a man being cuffed and shackled and then thrown into a paddy wagon and driven wildly around town until he suffered deadly injuries has anything to do with it? I'd say you're being hopelessly selective.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 03, 2017, 01:24:21 pm
So Trump finally goes to Puerto Rico and sits in a meeting with the governor, the mayor of SJ and other officials and uses it as a platform for a little self congratulating, and then later remarks something to the tune of "PR you have thrown our budget a little out of whack". I wonder will he make just as much an ass of himself when he carries on the Vegas tomorrow? Odds are... 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 03, 2017, 04:27:21 pm
You don't think a 12 year old being shot while playing in the park, or a man being cuffed and shackled and then thrown into a paddy wagon and driven wildly around town until he suffered deadly injuries has anything to do with it? I'd say you're being hopelessly selective.

I said that STARTED it. The 12 year old was shot because police are on a hair-trigger whenever they see anyone with a gun, and they drove too close to him, got freaked out, and reacted instantly. As for the paddy wagon, it wouldn't surprise me if that sort of thing has been going on across north America for a hundred years. Not saying it should. But not seeing it as racial either. The driver, who was probably laughing up front while he jerked the wheel from side to side, was Black.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on October 03, 2017, 05:18:44 pm
I said that STARTED it. The 12 year old was shot because police are on a hair-trigger whenever they see anyone with a gun, and they drove too close to him, got freaked out, and reacted instantly. As for the paddy wagon, it wouldn't surprise me if that sort of thing has been going on across north America for a hundred years. Not saying it should. But not seeing it as racial either.

Shouldn't properly- trained police be able to not get freaked out and react instantly?   Even as a civilian adult, I know an 'instant reaction' based on being freaked out is not usually the best choice.

Quote
The driver, who was probably laughing up front while he jerked the wheel from side to side, was Black.

Its not unusual for people to support their own oppression.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 03, 2017, 06:30:04 pm
Shouldn't properly- trained police be able to not get freaked out and react instantly?   Even as a civilian adult, I know an 'instant reaction' based on being freaked out is not usually the best choice.

Police are trained to shoot instantly when they believe someone has just pulled a gun on them.

Quote
Its not unusual for people to support their own oppression.

As far as the cop driving was concerned, the man in back wasn't Black like him, but a criminal, a mug, a perp, a skell. His skin color was irrelevent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 03, 2017, 07:47:02 pm
Police are trained to shoot instantly when they believe someone has just pulled a gun on them.

No they're not actually. But many of them apparently need further and more more effective training on how to deescalate a situation.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 04, 2017, 11:59:47 am
No they're not actually. But many of them apparently need further and more more effective training on how to deescalate a situation.

I don't believe there is any police force which trains its people to 'deescalate' when someone has a gun in their hands. They pull their guns, they point them and they might if they think they have time/distance/cover yell to drop the gun. But they ain't going to wait long for a response before opening up.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 04, 2017, 12:53:26 pm
I don't believe there is any police force which trains its people to 'deescalate' when someone has a gun in their hands. They pull their guns, they point them and they might if they think they have time/distance/cover yell to drop the gun. But they ain't going to wait long for a response before opening up.

How about the shootings that occur, and there are a buch which is what this discussion is about, where the only guns are those wielded by the cop?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on October 04, 2017, 02:22:22 pm
I don't believe there is any police force which trains its people to 'deescalate' when someone has a gun in their hands. They pull their guns, they point them and they might if they think they have time/distance/cover yell to drop the gun. But they ain't going to wait long for a response before opening up.
How about when someone, sitting in a car, informs an officer that he legally has a gun with him, but doesn't pull it out or point it at anyone and he gets murdered by the cop anyway?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 04, 2017, 03:42:53 pm
How about the shootings that occur, and there are a buch which is what this discussion is about, where the only guns are those wielded by the cop?

As per my cite, a lot of those 'unarmed' people are shot while struggling with cops for their gun, or are innocent bystanders killed by accident. It would be nice to see some honest statistics, but just going by the ones which have gotten the most coverage in the news there's like two guys I think I feel sorry for. The one who got shot when he reached into his car for his drivers license at gas station (cop immediately fired) and the idiot who says he has a gun, then reaches for something. The rest are, as they say, Darwin in action.

Did I wish that welsh footballer who reached through the bars to pet the lion harm? Nope. Am I happy he got bit? Nope. Do I feel particularly sorry for him? Nope.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 04, 2017, 03:44:18 pm
How about when someone, sitting in a car, informs an officer that he legally has a gun with him, but doesn't pull it out or point it at anyone and he gets murdered by the cop anyway?

It's funny how you guys keep bringing things like that up. But the one you never mention and never respond to is the most outrageous of them all, which is Justine Damond. I can only imagine how much her name would be being brandished about by the SJW set if she was Black instead of Blonde. Did you notice in that cite I posted that Black cops were more than 3 times more likely to shoot someone than White cops?

If you tell a cop you have a gun in the car it's best to have your hands on the wheel when you do it, and not to move them till he tells you to. No matter what your skin color.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 04, 2017, 03:49:12 pm
Count how long it takes between 'Drop the gun!" and BANG! BANG! BANG!

Suspect is a white guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_oWjvXWtko (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_oWjvXWtko)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 04, 2017, 04:44:19 pm
It's funny how you guys keep bringing things like that up. But the one you never mention and never respond to is the most outrageous of them all, which is Justine Damond. I can only imagine how much her name would be being brandished about by the SJW set if she was Black instead of Blonde. Did you notice in that cite I posted that Black cops were more than 3 times more likely to shoot someone than White cops?

If you tell a cop you have a gun in the car it's best to have your hands on the wheel when you do it, and not to move them till he tells you to. No matter what your skin color.

It's sort of funny how you always side with a white cop and not a black victim.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 11, 2017, 11:31:25 am
Today he tweeted an implicit threat to NBC that their license could be taken away because he deems them 'fake news'.

So far, we have acknowledgement from Senator Corker that there are 3 individuals keeping the administration from going off the rails:
Quote
Sen. Bob Corker (R-TN), who hasn’t been afraid to speak his mind about Trump or his administration lately, told reporters Wednesday that Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, Secretary of Defense James Mattis, and Chief of Staff Gen. John Kelly are “those people that help separate our country from chaos,” whereas others in the administration act without considering national security.

...and a general acknowledgment that the political establishment doesn't respect him.  That means that democracy itself is now at risk, and that we're depending on the civil service to keep it from falling apart.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 11, 2017, 12:00:23 pm
It's sort of funny how you always side with a white cop and not a black victim.

It's sort of funny how you always side with criminals and not with cops.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on October 11, 2017, 01:57:22 pm
It's sort of funny how you always side with criminals and not with cops.

Sometimes, there's no difference.  Police are human, after all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on October 11, 2017, 02:30:50 pm
As per my cite, a lot of those 'unarmed' people are shot while struggling with cops for their gun, or are innocent bystanders killed by accident. It would be nice to see some honest statistics, but just going by the ones which have gotten the most coverage in the news there's like two guys I think I feel sorry for. The one who got shot when he reached into his car for his drivers license at gas station (cop immediately fired) and the idiot who says he has a gun, then reaches for something. The rest are, as they say, Darwin in action.

Did I wish that welsh footballer who reached through the bars to pet the lion harm? Nope. Am I happy he got bit? Nope. Do I feel particularly sorry for him? Nope.

There was the incident where the police were searching for Chris Dorner and shot up a truck with two women in it? Yeah it was not even the same vehicle or the same colour. So what was their excuses?  Oh, I guess more training!  I'd have fired those cops and possible criminal charges.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/02/police-officers-who-shot-two-innocent-women-103-times-wont-be-fired/357771/

Quote
Yesterday, a commission found that the officers violated department policy when they thought the sound of a newspaper hitting the pavement was a gunshot and opened fire on two women who were, again, doing absolutely nothing wrong except driving a truck that didn't even look like the one they believed their suspect to be in.

That's some fine policing. Hopefully now they can tell the difference between blue and charcoal gray.

Looks like it happened twice, a different officer.

Quote
Shortly after the women were mistaken for Dorner, another police officer shot at another pickup truck. This one was black Honda Ridgeline. Brian McGee drove his cruiser into the truck and opened fire three times. The man inside the truck was not hit, but he sustained back and head injuries. The city of Torrance, where the incident took place, gave him $20,000 to replace his truck which was, again, a black Honda Ridgeline and not a gray Nissan Titan.

And this was not under Trump, but Obama.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 11, 2017, 02:43:44 pm
It's sort of funny how you always side with criminals and not with cops.

I tend to side with what dash cams/body cams show actually occurred.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 11, 2017, 04:18:16 pm
There was the incident where the police were searching for Chris Dorner and shot up a truck with two women in it? Yeah it was not even the same vehicle or the same colour. So what was their excuses?  Oh, I guess more training!  I'd have fired those cops and possible criminal charges.

I don't disagree with this. They should all be fired. As for training, I've been saying for some time now that police are woefully ill-trained, and that too much of their training almost resembles conditioning - teaching them to be constantly alert and afraid and that every threat should be met with a gun.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 11, 2017, 05:24:48 pm
I don't disagree with this. They should all be fired. As for training, I've been saying for some time now that police are woefully ill-trained, and that too much of their training almost resembles conditioning - teaching them to be constantly alert and afraid and that every threat should be met with a gun.

Well that certainly sounds like an increase in awareness. Congrats.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 11, 2017, 06:07:10 pm
Well that certainly sounds like an increase in awareness. Congrats.

I don't know how unaware you are but I've said it from the beginning. There's no change in my position.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on October 11, 2017, 07:00:12 pm
I don't disagree with this. They should all be fired. As for training, I've been saying for some time now that police are woefully ill-trained, and that too much of their training almost resembles conditioning - teaching them to be constantly alert and afraid and that every threat should be met with a gun.

I guess deescalation is no longer an option. It's a very snap reaction. You mentioned the guy at the gas station actually complying with the officer 'get your license', and then shoots him as he reached in his truck. I mean that's complying with the officer and still, that man got shot. To me, these snappy officers are not stable and not in control of themselves, let alone the situation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on October 12, 2017, 08:18:01 am
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41598616

Quote
But he added: "We cannot keep FEMA, the Military & the First Responders, who have been amazing (under the most difficult circumstances) in P.R. forever!"

Can't keep Puerto Ricans as 3rd class US citizens forever either.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on October 17, 2017, 04:25:53 pm
The Donald Trump subreddit forum has now led to murder.

https://www.reddit.com/r/esist/comments/76z1hx/t_d_has_officially_led_to_murder_links_inside/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 18, 2017, 06:38:05 am
https://amp.local10.com/news/politics/trump-speaks-to-widow-of-sgt-la-david-johnson

Trump is saying he has proof that this was a lie.

Niger is his own Behgazi ... let's see if FOX gives a ****.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 18, 2017, 06:51:13 am
https://twitter.com/NeverTrumpTexan/status/919413754407936000


When the remains of 4 soldiers ambushed in Benghazi returned home, both Obama and Clinton were there.

When the remains of 4 soldiers ambushed in Niger returned, Trump was golfing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on October 18, 2017, 10:40:36 am
https://twitter.com/NeverTrumpTexan/status/919413754407936000


When the remains of 4 soldiers ambushed in Benghazi returned home, both Obama and Clinton were there.

When the remains of 4 soldiers ambushed in Niger returned, Trump was golfing.


Clinton also had the chance to SAVE those soldiers. They could have come home alive along with Chris Stevens.  Their deaths took place on Sept 11, 2012.  Remember when she blamed it on a video? Then rectracted? What difference does it make!

Trump is an idiot. No doubt about that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 18, 2017, 10:51:13 am
Clinton also had the chance to SAVE those soldiers. They could have come home alive along with Chris Stevens.  Their deaths took place on Sept 11, 2012.  Remember when she blamed it on a video? Then rectracted? What difference does it make!

Trump is an idiot. No doubt about that.

The details are starting to come out about Niger.  It may also be a ****-up.  Do you think FOX will hold him to task ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on October 18, 2017, 12:10:30 pm
Ooh yeah. I'm sure there'll be several dozen congressional hearings, just like Benghazi. /s
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 18, 2017, 02:47:15 pm
Clinton also had the chance to SAVE those soldiers.

How? I believe the Republicans held something like 17 separate investigations into Benghazi and weren't able to find a way to blame Clinton for ANYTHING.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 18, 2017, 02:56:40 pm
McCain is really gunning for Trump...
Quote
John McCain: Trump administration is not being up front about Niger ambush
From CNN's Ashley Killough

Sen. John McCain says the Senate Armed Services Committee is asking for information about the Niger attack — but it isn't getting the answers it needs. He was not specific about what exactly he's asking for.

Asked if the Trump administration is being up front about what happened. McCain replied, "No."

Then, he was asked if he wanted to see a congressional investigation into the ambush.

"Investigations? I want the information that the senate armed services committee deserves and needs to start with," he said. "Then you decide whether a quote investigation is needed or not."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/18/politics/trump-latest/?lf-content=220598135:lb-post-a04bc44b6087333220cdce194fdd431b@livefyre.com&hubRefSrc=permalink

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on October 18, 2017, 06:25:05 pm
The details are starting to come out about Niger.  It may also be a ****-up.  Do you think FOX will hold him to task ?

Nope. Foxnews is the RNC mouthpiece, just like CNN is a DNC mouthpiece.  I don't hold a lot of faith in mainstream media to really get to the needed details.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 18, 2017, 07:19:51 pm
Nope. Foxnews is the RNC mouthpiece, just like CNN is a DNC mouthpiece.  I don't hold a lot of faith in mainstream media to really get to the needed details.

Have you actually compared the reportage? CNN may make errors but they are far more balanced than the game show that Fox is.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 19, 2017, 07:03:59 am
Nope. Foxnews is the RNC mouthpiece, just like CNN is a DNC mouthpiece.  I don't hold a lot of faith in mainstream media to really get to the needed details.
You choose not to answer the question how Clinton could have saved them? I don't hold a lot of faith that you have any real-world facts to back up your accusations.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 19, 2017, 11:20:42 am
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/19/politics/donald-trump-conspiracy-dossier/index.html

The FBI is against him now...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on October 19, 2017, 04:37:54 pm
Have you actually compared the reportage? CNN may make errors but they are far more balanced than the game show that Fox is.

CNN is no more balanced than Foxnews.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on October 19, 2017, 04:41:53 pm
You choose not to answer the question how Clinton could have saved them? I don't hold a lot of faith that you have any real-world facts to back up your accusations.

Here, hope this satisfies that request.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/documents-back-up-claims-of-requests-for-greater-security-in-benghazi/
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/congress/hillary-clinton-testimony-at-house-benghazi-panel/the-hearing-concludes
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2223747/CIA-agents-Benghazi-twice-asked-permission-help-Ambassador-Chris-Stevens-bullets-flying-twice-told-stand-down.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/10/19/ambassador-sought-security-staffing-before-benghazi-attack-email-shows.html
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/12/politics/fact-check-benghazi-security/index.html

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 19, 2017, 04:43:07 pm
CNN is no more balanced than Foxnews.

Fox might be a little bit better than Breitbart some days, but quite often they fall into the same "game show" screeds.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on October 19, 2017, 04:44:09 pm
Fox might be a little bit better than Breitbart some days, but quite often they fall into the same "game show" screeds.

That's the way I look at them. Mind you I do watch a bit from many of them which tends to give me a better picture of what really is going on. One site will omit something while another would put that in.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 19, 2017, 04:46:39 pm
Here, hope this satisfies that request. 

I like that most of the sources are not tabloid journalism.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on October 19, 2017, 04:51:24 pm
I like that most of the sources are not tabloid journalism.

I don't need the tabloids to prove my point.. Most people have a problem with a source instead of the information which may be completely factual.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 19, 2017, 04:54:40 pm
I don't need the tabloids to prove my point.. Most people have a problem with a source instead of the information which may be completely factual.

Well, you had at least one in your set of links but I'm letting that go as most were legitimate or quasi-legitimate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on October 19, 2017, 04:58:26 pm
Well, you had at least one in your set of links but I'm letting that go as most were legitimate or quasi-legitimate.

Agreed,  I should not have put CNN there.

However, between all of the sources the information is essentially the same. Your notion of quasi-legitimate is rendered moot.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 19, 2017, 04:59:58 pm
Agreed,  I should not have put CNN there.

No, FOX is less objective than CNN.  That's why they had to add 'Fair and Balanced' to their name, ie. they are neither.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on October 19, 2017, 05:41:11 pm
No, FOX is less objective than CNN.  That's why they had to add 'Fair and Balanced' to their name, ie. they are neither.

There is no way you can seriously say that CNN is any better than Fox.

Here is a nice clip of people being cut off for telling the truth.... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdYRN8Clddw
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on October 19, 2017, 06:12:44 pm
But I'll stop with Hillary and will agree with you that Trump is a train wreck.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 19, 2017, 06:46:09 pm
There is no way you can seriously say that CNN is any better than Fox.

I'll have to look at this later.  I'll grant you that they are now the "We hate Trump" network, but it wasn't always so.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on October 19, 2017, 06:50:14 pm
I'll have to look at this later.  I'll grant you that they are now the "We hate Trump" network, but it wasn't always so.

OH you are correct CNN does have it in for Trump.

I got a few more vids for you if your can handle the foul taste.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 19, 2017, 07:04:32 pm
OH you are correct CNN does have it in for Trump.

I got a few more vids for you if your can handle the foul taste.

I haven't seen the first one yet.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 19, 2017, 08:57:34 pm
OH you are correct CNN does have it in for Trump.

I got a few more vids for you if your can handle the foul taste.

Trump seems to have it in for himself, otherwise he wouldn't flip flop almost daily. All any network has to do is sit back with an open mic.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 19, 2017, 09:49:37 pm
I swear the #1 reason i want Trump to lose re-election is so everyone on my social media stops complaining about him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 20, 2017, 06:51:15 am
I swear the #1 reason i want Trump to lose re-election is so everyone on my social media stops complaining about him.

Watching the Vietnam War series on PBS, it's reminding me of the similar culture wars that happened when Nixon was in office. 

Some thoughts:

- These wars are a separate issue from actual policy, although they do proceed from politics and policy
- I am a deranged anti-Trumper, even though I realize that I AM deranged, and simultaneously that Trump himself could have been the saviour from partisan politics that many of us were waiting for
- Democracy needs rabble to work, but also can't excel because of rabble
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 20, 2017, 10:46:09 am
https://www.alternet.org/media/more-half-republicans-admit-they-have-been-fooled-fake-news#.WeoUd9dPUf0.facebook

Biggest Fake News Providers? Study Says: Limbaugh, Breitbart and Fox News
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on October 20, 2017, 01:46:17 pm
Watching the Vietnam War series on PBS, it's reminding me of the similar culture wars that happened when Nixon was in office. 
Similar? It's the same Culture War. That's when it started.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 20, 2017, 02:17:34 pm
Similar? It's the same Culture War. That's when it started.

Did it?  I guess so.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on October 21, 2017, 12:25:28 am
Did it?  I guess so.
It’s all a reaction to the same things: the sexual revolution, civil rights movement, and women’s lib. The knuckle-dragging Neanderthals from the alt-right would have been frothing at the mouth about what an SJW cuck MLK was if they were around then. There’s people on the far right who think there’s a secret Jewish Cabal looking to undermine American “values” and “culture.” That’s what this “cultural Marxism” nonsense is about.

Some lengthy reading but you can learn about the origins of the phrase  “cultural Marxism” on the far right and its adopti9n by more mainstream commentators here:  https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2003/cultural-marxism-catching
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 21, 2017, 08:16:40 am
It’s all a reaction to the same things: the sexual revolution, civil rights movement, and women’s lib. The knuckle-dragging Neanderthals from the alt-right would have been frothing at the mouth about what an SJW cuck MLK was if they were around then. There’s people on the far right who think there’s a secret Jewish Cabal looking to undermine American “values” and “culture.” That’s what this “cultural Marxism” nonsense is about.

Well, it took a generation after WW2, for unity to gradually come apart.  And it was helped by arrival of a new medium also.  ( Can't let go of the McLuhan side of this.)  Yes, I think this started here.  At least, it's tough to find a connection to previous leftist culture.

You can.  Woody Guthrie and Bob Dylan were friends.

Quote
Some lengthy reading but you can learn about the origins of the phrase  “cultural Marxism” on the far right and its adopti9n by more mainstream commentators here:  https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2003/cultural-marxism-catching

Maybe.  I'm already on the right side of history here.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 21, 2017, 10:33:28 am
CNN is no more balanced than Foxnews.

It certainly IS. I watch both and FOX is almost at par with RT in its one-sidedness, it's slanted coverage, and giving platforms to crazy people from the far right. This morning that lunatic alt-right clown Gorka, who was booted out of the White House when Kelley arrived was being obsequiously interviewed on FOX.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 21, 2017, 10:35:03 am
Hard to tell, though, because it's all Trump crazy all the time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 21, 2017, 10:37:22 am
Here, hope this satisfies that request.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/documents-back-up-claims-of-requests-for-greater-security-in-benghazi/
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/congress/hillary-clinton-testimony-at-house-benghazi-panel/the-hearing-concludes
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2223747/CIA-agents-Benghazi-twice-asked-permission-help-Ambassador-Chris-Stevens-bullets-flying-twice-told-stand-down.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/10/19/ambassador-sought-security-staffing-before-benghazi-attack-email-shows.html
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/12/politics/fact-check-benghazi-security/index.html

No. Not one of them has anything whatsoever that suggests Clinton was responsible. The embassy requested more security, but that request never got to Clinton. Furthermore, the Republican party shot down a request by the State department for more money for security. When there's only so much to go around you make do with what you've got.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 21, 2017, 12:25:23 pm
I pressured people at the old forum regarding Benghazi, and the one reasonable response I got was from Sharkman, who pointed out that many requests had been made for improved security for the Benghazi facility.

I don't think that's what is actually going through the minds of the people who think there is a massive conspiracy or cover-up regarding Benghazi.  These people seem to be under the impression that there was a military rescue underway and Hillary ordered them to turn back because she didn't want to save the people there.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 21, 2017, 12:38:27 pm
I pressured people at the old forum regarding Benghazi, and the one reasonable response I got was from Sharkman, who pointed out that many requests had been made for improved security for the Benghazi facility.

Sure, I can accept that.

Quote
I don't think that's what is actually going through the minds of the people who think there is a massive conspiracy or cover-up regarding Benghazi.  These people seem to be under the impression that there was a military rescue underway and Hillary ordered them to turn back because she didn't want to save the people there.

 -k

God, no.  At one end of the spectrum they think she and George Soros planned a way to kill US servicemen and watch it during an ****.  At the other end, they want to hold her to a higher level of responsibility due to her visibility as a Democratic Party icon.

Surely there is a level of incompetence at play here.  How could anybody hope to guess what it is with so many layers between those of us trying to form an opinion, and the public servants who work on our behalf ?  (our, ie. Americans in this case.  S'ok BC isn't here.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 21, 2017, 02:02:37 pm
I pressured people at the old forum regarding Benghazi, and the one reasonable response I got was from Sharkman, who pointed out that many requests had been made for improved security for the Benghazi facility.

I don't think that's what is actually going through the minds of the people who think there is a massive conspiracy or cover-up regarding Benghazi.  These people seem to be under the impression that there was a military rescue underway and Hillary ordered them to turn back because she didn't want to save the people there.

 -k

These people seem willing to believe virtually anything bad about the Clintons. I wouldn't call the Clintons exactly honest, but looking into their past doesn't show me any deeper a degree of dishonesty than your average politician. There's lots and lots -- and lots of allegations, but no actual evidence. And what gets me is the same people who are so vituperative towards the Clintons tend to dismiss all criticism of Trump. Last year, for example, Clinton having used a private email server was just about the same as her pledging her soul to Satan and deliberately sending all state secrets directly to the Ruskies. Now that it emerges numerous members of the Trump White House were using private email it's really no big deal. For that matter, any news about Russian espionage is 'fake news' and to be ignored.

And I say that as someone who really loathed Clinton's identity politics and her sanctimonious prattling.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on October 21, 2017, 02:04:03 pm
No. Not one of them has anything whatsoever that suggests Clinton was responsible. The embassy requested more security, but that request never got to Clinton. Furthermore, the Republican party shot down a request by the State department for more money for security. When there's only so much to go around you make do with what you've got.

She was Secretary of State at the time. This was her jurisdiction. Ultimately it lies with her, or one of her direct subordinates. This is why Clinton was dragged into hearings.  Regardless, requests for ramping up security there was ignored leading to the deaths.  Don't forget at first she said it was due to a video that was the cause, and now we know she was not telling the truth at the time. As she said in the hearings  'At this point what difference does it make?'.  It makes a big difference.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on October 21, 2017, 02:07:14 pm
It certainly IS. I watch both and FOX is almost at par with RT in its one-sidedness, it's slanted coverage, and giving platforms to crazy people from the far right. This morning that lunatic alt-right clown Gorka, who was booted out of the White House when Kelley arrived was being obsequiously interviewed on FOX.

I'll let you live that fantasy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 21, 2017, 02:13:54 pm
She was Secretary of State at the time. This was her jurisdiction. Ultimately it lies with her, or one of her direct subordinates. This is why Clinton was dragged into hearings.  Regardless, requests for ramping up security there was ignored leading to the deaths.  Don't forget at first she said it was due to a video that was the cause, and now we know she was not telling the truth at the time. As she said in the hearings  'At this point what difference does it make?'.  It makes a big difference.

You've ignored the point, that there was only so much money to go around, and that the Republicans refused more. You do understand that congress is the place where budgets are set, right?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 21, 2017, 02:15:05 pm
I'll let you live that fantasy.

I'm about the most conservative here, and I'm saying that FOX is about as honest as RT news. I don't doubt that individual CNN programs will sometimes slant news. But they give far, far more opportunity for Republicans to debate and disagree than FOX does to democrats.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on October 22, 2017, 01:07:10 pm
You've ignored the point, that there was only so much money to go around, and that the Republicans refused more. You do understand that congress is the place where budgets are set, right?

Billions perhaps trillions of dollars and thousands of lives wasted on the war on terror (Libya being a part of that war) but sorry we can't rescue you because we simply don't have the budget.  That makes no sense at all.  Terrible argument point, it sounds ridiculous.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 22, 2017, 01:44:24 pm
Billions perhaps trillions of dollars and thousands of lives wasted on the war on terror (Libya being a part of that war) but sorry we can't rescue you because we simply don't have the budget.  That makes no sense at all.  Terrible argument point, it sounds ridiculous.

Ridiculous or not, that was the reality. Congress cut the State Department's budget, so the Benghazi facility (and probably every other State Department facility as well) had less security than they would have liked.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 22, 2017, 04:37:44 pm
Billions perhaps trillions of dollars and thousands of lives wasted on the war on terror (Libya being a part of that war) but sorry we can't rescue you because we simply don't have the budget.  That makes no sense at all.  Terrible argument point, it sounds ridiculous.

That is not the argument I made. I pointed out that the request the Obama administration made to congress for security was cut by about $300 million. This impacted the number of assets available. In addition, the budget for the military had been cut, affecting their available assets. There was nothing available to come to their rescue in time. There were four special forces guys who wanted to go, but they almost certainly could not have gotten there in time, and the army didn't want to throw good money after bad in a losing attempt. Four was not enough. There were no air assets available either. The closest fighters were in Aveano Italy, but it was the middle of the might and they were not prepared to simply take off. It would have taken hours to get pilots, get them fueled and armed and take off for Benghazi, and there were no air tankers close enough to fuel them once they got there (3600 km away).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on October 23, 2017, 10:37:29 am
Ridiculous or not, that was the reality. Congress cut the State Department's budget, so the Benghazi facility (and probably every other State Department facility as well) had less security than they would have liked.

 -k

That seems to be the case, but interesting they would cut budgets there. And when the military wants money for war, they sure as hell gets it.

I still don't buy the budgets directly contributing to this when several requests went unanswered. They had plenty of time to get there and save them.

What would be the reason of leaving them under staffed for security in a war zone?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 23, 2017, 02:55:02 pm
I'm about the most conservative here, and I'm saying that FOX is about as honest as RT news. I don't doubt that individual CNN programs will sometimes slant news. But they give far, far more opportunity for Republicans to debate and disagree than FOX does to democrats.

You and I often disagree but I agree with this.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 23, 2017, 03:19:50 pm
I mean, I know it is Trump but really?

http://www.news1130.com/2017/10/20/nafta-u-s-hasnt-done-analysis-on-what-happens-if-free-trade-treaty-ends/ (http://www.news1130.com/2017/10/20/nafta-u-s-hasnt-done-analysis-on-what-happens-if-free-trade-treaty-ends/)

What a bunch of loose cannons this bunch is. Frightening.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 23, 2017, 03:34:29 pm
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/10/19/donald-trump-fake-renoir-moos-ebof.cnn

He buys fake paintings, he ends multi-hundred-billion-dollar trade deals on intuition... and was democratically elected.

Time for China to boss us around for awhile.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 24, 2017, 08:55:35 am
Trump vs Corker continues:

http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/the-latest-corker-says-congress-should-decide-tax-cuts

Quote
After Corker went on NBC’s “Today” Tuesday and said Trump’s White House should let Congress decide how to pay for his tax cuts, Trump fired back.

Trump tweeted that Corker, who is retiring, “couldn’t get elected dog catcher in Tennessee.”

Corker took to his own Twitter account to respond, saying “same untruths from an utterly untruthful president. #AlertTheDaycareStaff.”

Slight escalation happening...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 24, 2017, 11:24:54 am
I mean, I know it is Trump but really?

http://www.news1130.com/2017/10/20/nafta-u-s-hasnt-done-analysis-on-what-happens-if-free-trade-treaty-ends/ (http://www.news1130.com/2017/10/20/nafta-u-s-hasnt-done-analysis-on-what-happens-if-free-trade-treaty-ends/)

What a bunch of loose cannons this bunch is. Frightening.

The problem of Trump is exacerbated by the betrayal of their duty by the US Supreme Court. They have allowed (mainly the Republican nominees) gerrymandering to become the norm, to the point where the majority of congressional seats are almost completely safe for the incumbent party. This means the only real threat to their re-election is being outflanked on his right (for Republicans) or the left (for Democrats). That's led to the death of moderates, and the two parties moving further and further apart. In addition, the Supreme Court has basically mandated total freedom for election spending by anyone who wants to influence politicians. The combination means many senators, congressmen, governors and state reps are now mainly beholden to a small group of elites and lobbyists with the money to fund their massively expensive campaigns.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 24, 2017, 07:15:03 pm
http://www.npr.org/2017/10/24/559865339/arizona-sen-jeff-flake-a-trump-critic-will-not-seek-reelection?sc=tw

Flake torches Trump in his speech, but Americans in my feed are unimpressed, saying he has voted with Trump 90% of the time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 25, 2017, 09:42:28 pm
I read a transcript of Flake's speech. It's outstanding.

Flake and Corker and McCain have all been blasting Trump.  All three of them have one thing in common: they're not seeking re-election.  McCain's crack at Trump's "bone spurs" draft deferment was particularly vicious.

Senators Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski have likewise been unafraid to oppose Trump and the Trumptards on key votes on healthcare. (but they don't have to run for reelection until 2022...) 

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 26, 2017, 06:38:01 am
Still seeing people decrying these guys who say:

"YOU SENATORS NEED TO DEAL WITH TRUMP... oh, btw, I'm out ... bye !"

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 26, 2017, 09:29:07 am
I read a transcript of Flake's speech. It's outstanding.

Yes, but let's not make him into any kind of heroic figure. He cut and ran. More to the point, neither you nor I would even remotely consider voting for Flake given his voting record and the kinds of things he stands for. He is in no way, shape or form, a moderate conservative. Remember that he had no problem voting in favour of every one of the Republicans attempts at repealing Obamacare, even simply repealing it and replacing it with nothing.

http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Jeff_Flake.htm
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 26, 2017, 10:58:04 am
Hang on tight... Still 3+ years to go.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 29, 2017, 07:07:09 pm
Anybody else waitinbg with bated breath to see who gets indicted tomorrow? (I mean more bated than Trump boy)? It's fun to watch him flailing around trying to deflect the focus back to Hillary or Obama. He may not need any powder to slap on his face to tint it tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 29, 2017, 07:22:29 pm
Mannafort ?

Seems to be what Drudge (http://drudgereport.com/) is hinting at
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 29, 2017, 07:31:05 pm
Mannafort ?

Seems to be what Drudge (http://drudgereport.com/) is hinting at

Mannafort seems to be in the lead, but Flynn is not far behind. I bet Trump is gathering his legal councilors to ponder how to fire Mueller. The West Wing must be like a lit firecracker just now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on October 29, 2017, 07:47:56 pm
I didn't think Trump had a hope in hell of winning the primaries till he was in the lead.  I didn't think he had a hope in hell of winning the WH and last November 8th I watched everything cool as a cucumber.  Then he won the WH.

Since then we've had admissions of lying, attempts to start a nuclear war, complete ineptness in getting anything done, stacking his cabinet with one joke after another and then having them play musical chairs.  We've had Russia, moral equivalence for white-supremacists and blatant nepotism and profiting from the office.  Not to mention picking fights with his own cabinet, the leaders of the the House and Senate, other GOP lawmakers, tweeting one absurdity after another, bankrupting the secret service and being obsessed with his predecessors.

Let's face it, the man is teflon.  I hope I'm wrong but I'm honestly starting to think Dems need to write off 2020 and start thinking 2024. 

If none of this has sank him yet, I don't see what possibly could. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 29, 2017, 07:54:16 pm
I didn't think Trump had a hope in hell of winning the primaries till he was in the lead.  I didn't think he had a hope in hell of winning the WH and last November 8th I watched everything cool as a cucumber.  Then he won the WH.

Since then we've had admissions of lying, attempts to start a nuclear war, complete ineptness in getting anything done, stacking his cabinet with one joke after another and then having them play musical chairs.  We've had Russia, moral equivalence for white-supremacists and blatant nepotism and profiting from the office.  Not to mention picking fights with his own cabinet, the leaders of the the House and Senate, other GOP lawmakers, tweeting one absurdity after another, bankrupting the secret service and being obsessed with his predecessors.

Let's face it, the man is teflon.  I hope I'm wrong but I'm honestly starting to think Dems need to write off 2020 and start thinking 2024. 

If none of this has sank him yet, I don't see what possibly could.

Wait 'till Nancy Pellosi takes control of the house!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on October 29, 2017, 08:01:18 pm
Trust me, I hope I'm wrong too. 

But seeing his support stay strong in spite of everything I stated earlier, I'm getting disillusioned with the possibility of anything possibly changing for him.

The ones who like him seem unshakable in their support.  It helps that he's done such a great job of telling him everything unpleasant about him is 'fake news'.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 30, 2017, 06:05:40 am
The 'system' such as it is, has entrenched Republican/Democrats with a small number of swing voters in the middle. 

The unknown is what will happen if a true crisis happens.  Will Trump persist or will he be removed ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 30, 2017, 11:26:24 am
Let's face it, the man is teflon.
I don't think he's quite as 'teflon' as you might think. His popularity is cratering (unlike for example Bill Clinton, who actually seemed to get MORE popular after the Lewinski scandal), and he has pretty much no political capital available to push his agenda. All he has is his **** base left, with no potential for growth (or to 'make up' for a drop in support), and even the **** vote might waver when they see him gutting Obamacare (many voted for Trump with the expectation he would leave Obamacare alone), or that coal jobs really aren't coming back.

He may be 'safe' in office, but that's because there's no quick and simple way to eject a sitting president, regardless of the scandals and what has 'stuck' to them.
Quote
I hope I'm wrong but I'm honestly starting to think Dems need to write off 2020 and start thinking 2024.
You may be right, but not because Trump is some sort of 'teflon' man, able to deflect criticism. The democrats are at a disadvantage for a couple of reasons:

- More of the senate seats up for election in 2020 are currently held by democrats. This gives them less opportunity for political gains

- A combination of gerrymandering, voter suppression, and commonly low turnout during the mid-terms gives an advantage to the republicans

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 30, 2017, 11:54:07 am
I didn't think Trump had a hope in hell of winning the primaries till he was in the lead.  I didn't think he had a hope in hell of winning the WH and last November 8th I watched everything cool as a cucumber.  Then he won the WH.

I started getting worried because she didn't have a 20 point lead. She didn't even have a 10 point lead. Over a clown like Trump! She ran a boring campaign, was a boring speaker, and never really fought back. That 'when they go low, we go high' thing was bullshit. You have a repeat adulterer making your husband's former adultery as one of the key points of his attacks and you never once point out he's an adulterer? Are you kidding me!?

Michael Moore predicted Trump would win, and for the same reason I started to worry. No one was very excited about Clinton. But masses of people were thrilled to jam into huge arenas to see Trump. Those people were sure as hell going to get out to vote for their guy. Clinton's people were, Meh, it's too cold out. Meh, I don't feel like it.

I bought gold stocks, and defense stocks, just in case.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 30, 2017, 12:00:07 pm
He may be 'safe' in office, but that's because there's no quick and simple way to eject a sitting president, regardless of the scandals and what has 'stuck' to them.You may be right, but not because Trump is some sort of 'teflon' man, able to deflect criticism. The democrats are at a disadvantage for a couple of reasons:

- More of the senate seats up for election in 2020 are currently held by democrats. This gives them less opportunity for political gains

- A combination of gerrymandering, voter suppression, and commonly low turnout during the mid-terms gives an advantage to the republicans

Yep. Not all seats come up for re-election at the same time. And in 2018 it's mostly the Democratic seats at risk. They will probably make some gains - at least I hope so, but it isn't going to be a landslide. The Democrats still have not managed to come out and say "we stand for THIS". They're opposed to Trump but what are they in favour of What are THEIR plans? What are THEIR policies?

Also, much like Trudeau, the Demos have been angling their party towards identity groups for some time. Those identity groups, particularly blacks and hispanics, are less likely to vote in mid-terms. So are younger voters.

The Democrats need to find a way to appeal to regular white people. Unfortunately, the only way to do that is to stop the identity politics bullshit which turns off so many whites and makes them think the Democrats are the party of minorities, gays and Muslims, over them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 30, 2017, 10:01:29 pm
The news reports "Donald Trump is seething". I wonder if he's not simply quivering as the cases close in as his cohorts are indicted. Do you think Americans will wake up?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 31, 2017, 10:49:25 am
The news reports "Donald Trump is seething". I wonder if he's not simply quivering as the cases close in as his cohorts are indicted. Do you think Americans will wake up?
I think MOST Americans will, but there will always be the **** Trump base (maybe 30% of the population) who are so tuned in to Fox News and 'alternative facts' that they will be willing to give Trump the benefit of the doubt, even if they uncover the video of Trump giving Putin oral sex while Putin personally hacks into the democrat email servers.

(Ha! Get that image out of your mind!)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 31, 2017, 12:35:24 pm
I think MOST Americans will, but there will always be the **** Trump base (maybe 30% of the population) who are so tuned in to Fox News and 'alternative facts' that they will be willing to give Trump the benefit of the doubt, even if they uncover the video of Trump giving Putin oral sex while Putin personally hacks into the democrat email servers.

(Ha! Get that image out of your mind!)

Oh hell! And I was just getting clear of the image of the hooker pissing on him. I'll have to go do some yard work or something.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on October 31, 2017, 12:36:53 pm
Oh hell! And I was just getting clear of the image of the hooker pissing on him. I'll have to go do some yard work or something.

Wanna borrow my brain bleach?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 31, 2017, 12:39:36 pm
Wanna borrow my brain bleach?

If the yard work doesn't help I'll take you up on that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 31, 2017, 12:45:39 pm
Trump and Kelly are trying like hell to throw Papawho? under the bus, but the bus seems to keep getting ahead of them. They have kept his guilty plea secret for a month for a reason. And with the possible jail time Manafort and Gates could be facing, wait 'till they flip! I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the WH today.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 01, 2017, 05:38:10 am
This still could be nothing but a drain on energy, a distraction and a factor in midterms.... maybe.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/31/politics/manafort-3-passports/index.html

Manafort has 3 passports and a fake phone. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 01, 2017, 01:12:27 pm
Trump and Kelly are trying like hell to throw Papawho? under the bus...
And then there's this:

From: https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/31/trump-robert-mueller-indictments-response-244361
The White House on Tuesday sought to take credit for the arrest of a former Trump campaign aide who had repeated contacts with Russia-linked officials...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 01, 2017, 01:59:40 pm
I'm just waiting to see how Sarah dances around the issues when the press briefing gets going. I would so hate to have to do her job. My mom made a serious impression on me it was wrong to tell lies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 01, 2017, 02:44:55 pm
How do you tell if Sarah Sanders is lying?
Her lips are moving. Old joke but so totally applicable in this case.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 01, 2017, 08:36:46 pm
Trump claims the American justice system is "a laughing stock" and he wants it to be "tough and strong". Maybe he should just **** off to Saudi Arabia, they have that type of justice system there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 02, 2017, 06:45:54 am
Springsteen's ATLANTIC CITY sung on Twitter, using the Trump administration:

https://mobile.twitter.com/g_bluestone/status/925542875462553601
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 02, 2017, 10:30:28 am
So, after the recent terrorist attack in NYC (where a Muslim male crashed a truck into some bystanders) Trump has done the expected and started making statements and posting on Twitter (for example, calling for the death penalty, saying he'd like to send him to Gitmo, and calling for tighter immigration restrictions.

He has also come under fire for a few reasons:

- The defense in the terrorism case can now point to Trump's death penalty comments and say their client isn't getting a fair trial. http://www.newser.com/story/251021/trumps-death-penalty-demand-could-haunt-prosecutors.html

- Trump's response in this case is being compared (quite unfavorably) to Trump's responses to the Charleston and Vegas attacks. In those cases, Trump was either slower to respond, said a lot less, or made statements about how they needed more information before responding, or didn't want to "go the political route". Compare that to this case, where within a few hours Trump has jumped in almost immediately with suggestions for changes. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/01/trump-criticizes-democrats-after-reports-visa-program-admitted-alleged-attacker

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 04, 2017, 09:28:01 pm
Just watching Trump giving his first speech in Japan on his first stop of his Asian tour. He hasn't taken his eyes off his teleprompter for a second. He's boring as usual of course but I guess his handlers have convinced him not to **** up by going off script.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 05, 2017, 03:48:44 am
"I come here on the 45th anniversary of Pearl Harbor to speak to you, the people of Japan, to say we Americans love Japan. The Japanese people, you know, they are very smart, they can turn a microwave into a wrist watch. Very smart, very smart people. Hard workers, very good people. I have a Sony TV in my office in Trump Tower.  I love the Japanese food. You know, the best Kung-Pao Chicken in the whole world comes from the kitchen at the Trump Tower.  I was going to bring my chef over here to teach you guys how to make it, it is so good, you wouldn't even believe it.  I love the Japanese food, and Japanese culture, like Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee.  America loves Japan.  Now we got this guy, Ding Dong Un, he is one bad hombre.  He says he has nookyooler weapons now. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but very smart people are saying he does. But I'm telling you, if Ding Dong threatens Japan with nookyooler weapons, America will be there for you. We will be shoulder to shoulder with our Japanese friends just like 45 years ago on the beaches of Pearl Harbor."

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 05, 2017, 05:39:13 am
That is too bad, because it means that the team of retarded monkeys writing for him is also incompetent:

Kung Po, is a spicy stir-fry Chinese dish

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Pao_chicken
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on November 05, 2017, 12:26:58 pm
That is too bad, because it means that the team of retarded monkeys writing for him is also incompetent:

Kung Po, is a spicy stir-fry Chinese dish

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Pao_chicken

I'm not sure that's the worst thing about that speech. Where the hell did that come from, anyway?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 05, 2017, 01:45:26 pm
I'm not sure that's the worst thing about that speech. Where the hell did that come from, anyway?

Kimmy's imagination. You didn't get that?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on November 05, 2017, 02:10:03 pm
Kimmy's imagination. You didn't get that?

No.  Now I'm all embarrassed....

Edit>  I did think it might be SNL...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 05, 2017, 02:19:45 pm
No.  Now I'm all embarrassed....

Edit>  I did think it might be SNL...

Well so far Trump seems to be paying attention to his handlers and sticking to his teleprompter, but it's only the first days of his trip. He usually can't help going  off script at some point so we could get something that will "trump" even Kimmy's rendition. I now know what I want for dinner though. Stay tuned. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 06, 2017, 12:32:15 am
Well Trump, as expected just made an **** of himself with a comment at the current press briefing in Japan with a completely innapropriate comment regarding the size of budgets between the two countries. His comments combined with his mop on his head and his dripping orange powder as he sweats under the lights and being completely inept would make me embarrassed were I an American. And what is he, 2 days in? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 06, 2017, 12:53:46 am
Trump weighed in on the NY City truck driving attack saying that the perp ought to be put to death or at least sent to Gitmo. Then today he says the gunmen in Texas who shot over 50 parishioners, 26 to death, is simply a victim of mental illness. only real difference----skin color. What the **** depth of moron could not see the hypocrisy? I'm sure that BC from MLW will be thinking up some ridiculous retort though.  I'm not an artist but can anyone come up with an image of Donald Trump kissing Wayne LaPierre's arse?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 06, 2017, 01:36:59 am
It is mental health problem. The mental health of people who allow crazy people to buy guns.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 06, 2017, 07:26:07 am
I'm not an artist but can anyone come up with an image of Donald Trump kissing Wayne LaPierre's arse?

ya, ya... to Trump, labeling the gunner mentally defective is always his favourite go-to in the absence of a brown/black/islamic terrorist angle.

not a literal image, but representative of it - one of the very first things Trump did: Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses --- https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 06, 2017, 11:42:55 am
ya, ya... to Trump, labeling the gunner mentally defective is always his favourite go-to in the absence of a brown/black/islamic terrorist angle.

Most people make distinctions between violence committed for a 'cause' and violence for the sake of demented vengeance or just outright craziness. So far as I'm aware we have no motive yet, and no membership in any groups or causes, but also no information about known mental illness.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 06, 2017, 02:06:31 pm
Trump (again) hastily assigns blame for the recent shootings in TX. as mental illness. That of course because it was it was a home grown, white skinned American pulling the trigger. Same conclusion for the Vegas shooter. The NY guy was naturalized American but with brown skin, so we better stop immigration.  I think we all now have an understanding of Trump's racism/bigotry. To add fuel to the fire though, he also says there is no reason to think about amending any gun laws, and, his proposals to repeal/replace the health care act (ACA) would have gutted funding for treatment for those with mental health issues, whom there are many of in the US by Trump's own admission. So, I guess the conclusion to Trump's approach to these issues is basically, **** those people who need mental health treatment, but let's make sure they can get guns.

Might be a good time to open a funeral home business in the US.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on November 06, 2017, 03:23:39 pm
Trump (again) hastily assigns blame for the recent shootings in TX. as mental illness.

Because the typical go to is 'radical islam'. And the MSM wastes no time applying that to individuals as much as they can. Even when there is no connection to ISIS.  Remember that the Vegas shooter was thought to be part of ISIS after ISIS made the claim they were responsible.

But this man was denied from purchasing a rifle, so he got the firearm illegally. He did seem to have some anger/mental issues.  He was in the Air Force and was dishonorably discharged.  That will help explain it a lot.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 06, 2017, 03:32:12 pm
Because the typical go to is 'radical islam'. And the MSM wastes no time applying that to individuals as much as they can. Even when there is no connection to ISIS.  Remember that the Vegas shooter was thought to be part of ISIS after ISIS made the claim they were responsible.

But this man was denied from purchasing a rifle, so he got the firearm illegally. He did seem to have some anger/mental issues.  He was in the Air Force and was dishonorably discharged.  That will help explain it a lot.

Actually he didn't obtain his firearms illegally, he did so fraudulently. That maybe sounds like splitting hairs but he was simply able to put a tick mark beside "NO" on a number of questions on the purchase application that, had he have ticked "YES", would have disallowed the purchase. The NO ticks were lies, but I guess the seller didn't really care. Point being if you have this type of troubled history, and that's all you have to do to thwart the so called gun laws, then these incidents will continue unabated.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on November 06, 2017, 08:00:19 pm
The reason this guy went on a shooting spree is because he was mentally unstable.  He was released from the military (something we should wonder about), he was accused of beating his wife, child, animals and threatened his mother-in law and who know what else.   It seems clear that Trump was dead right in his assessment. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 06, 2017, 08:29:28 pm
The reason this guy went on a shooting spree is because he was mentally unstable.  He was released from the military (something we should wonder about), he was accused of beating his wife, child, animals and threatened his mother-in law and who know what else.   It seems clear that Trump was dead right in his assessment.

So do you also think he is "dead" right to gut mental health care funding but also make sure guns are readily available? That attitude will ensure we see more of the same as we saw in Texas and elsewhere. If Americans continue to be so densly stupid about gun laws, then their blood will continue to flow down the streets. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 06, 2017, 10:21:23 pm
The reason this guy went on a shooting spree is because he was mentally unstable.  He was released from the military (something we should wonder about), he was accused of beating his wife, child, animals and threatened his mother-in law and who know what else.   It seems clear that Trump was dead right in his assessment.

Too bad he won't support basic checks that could prevent such people from legally buying guns, including semi automatic rifles. People who oppose such measures are the ones with the really dangerous mental deficiency.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on November 06, 2017, 10:25:43 pm
Too bad he won't support basic checks that could prevent such people from legally buying guns, including semi automatic rifles. People who oppose such measures are the ones with the really dangerous mental deficiency.
The basic checks are apparently in place. The screw up here was the navy that forget to update the civilian DB when he was dishonorably discharged.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 06, 2017, 10:47:23 pm
The basic checks are apparently in place. The screw up here was the navy that forget to update the civilian DB when he was dishonorably discharged.

It was actually a "bad conduct discharge", which is different than a "dishonorable discharge" and it was from the Air Force, not the Navy. But in any case gun laws in the US ought to be discussed, but with Trump in the WH and the GOP controlling congress, nothing will happen on this issue. But who really gives a ****? Americans don't seem to. Fire away!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 06, 2017, 10:53:05 pm
According to the Texas Governor, he was refused a permit to buy and own a firearm in Texas, so how did he manage to purchase them legally?

Doesn't matter. When it comes to Americans and their mass shootings, my initial reaction now is Meh, they don't give a **** beyond lip service to the victims, so why should I as long as we can keep the insanity from spreading north.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 06, 2017, 11:14:21 pm
According to the Texas Governor, he was refused a permit to buy and own a firearm in Texas, so how did he manage to purchase them legally?

Doesn't matter. When it comes to Americans and their mass shootings, my initial reaction now is Meh, they don't give a **** beyond lip service to the victims, so why should I as long as we can keep the insanity from spreading north.

Build our own wall? And make Trump pay for it. That's my idea.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 07, 2017, 09:27:38 am
The reason this guy went on a shooting spree is because he was mentally unstable.  He was released from the military (something we should wonder about), he was accused of beating his wife, child, animals and threatened his mother-in law and who know what else.   It seems clear that Trump was dead right in his assessment.

And yet Republicans are steadfastly opposed to background checks that would keep mentally unstable people from buying guns.

Why is it that even common-sense ideas are denounced as "the liberals are trying to take our guns!" by the bulk of the Republicans in the House and the Senate?

The standard line, for many years, has been "if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns!"   But most mentally ill people aren't criminals in the usual sense. They don't have the underworld contacts that gang members and career criminals use to obtain firearms. The people who have gone on these mass shooting sprees would probably typically not know how to access underground contacts to obtain these weapons.  These people are more likely to get busted by undercover agents while trying to get guns illegally than to actually obtain them.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 07, 2017, 02:09:00 pm
Talking sense again kimmy. You need to watch that. The odd thing is a large majority of Americans favour comprehensive background checks.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 07, 2017, 02:27:58 pm
The more that is revealed about this latest (Texas) shooter, the more it seems evident that even a cursory background check on this guy should have disallowed him from buying a gun. There seems to be a lot of loopholes in the system at least in certain gun totin' states.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 07, 2017, 08:24:05 pm
Any bets as to whether or not Trump goes off the teleprompter as he delivers his speech in SK momentarily?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 07, 2017, 08:32:53 pm
Oh, now Trump says F 35's are "magnificent" There's the first flip flop.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 08, 2017, 12:21:22 am
Well Trump stayed on script from start to finish of his latest speech in SK. I imagine his handlers are wiping the sweat from their brows. For the moment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 08, 2017, 05:58:58 am
Republican losses in elections last night.

https://twitter.com/LEBassett/status/928066321958490113

Trans woman wins over 'bathroom bill' guy.  Win some, lose some ...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on November 08, 2017, 09:54:43 am
Build our own wall? And make Trump pay for it. That's my idea.

That was a good bit on South Park.  Canada built the wall first.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 08, 2017, 01:11:49 pm
Donald must not be too happy with the outcomes of yesterdays votes. VA. and NJ. turned very blue. Nancy Pelosi must be looking forward to the mid terms. Bring on the tweets Donny.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 08, 2017, 02:29:46 pm
Donald must not be too happy with the outcomes of yesterdays votes. VA. and NJ. turned very blue. Nancy Pelosi must be looking forward to the mid terms. Bring on the tweets Donny.

If the Democrats can win the Virginia legislature - which depends on recounts in tight elections - it could impact the House. Both Virginia senators are Democrats, but House elections are based on gerrymandered districts drawn by the current Republican controlled legislature. That's why there are 7 Republicans and 4 Democrats. If the Dems quickly redraw those districts to be less Republican friendly that will cost the Republicans in next year's election.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 08, 2017, 02:58:57 pm
If the Democrats can win the Virginia legislature - which depends on recounts in tight elections - it could impact the House. Both Virginia senators are Democrats, but House elections are based on gerrymandered districts drawn by the current Republican controlled legislature. That's why there are 7 Republicans and 4 Democrats. If the Dems quickly redraw those districts to be less Republican friendly that will cost the Republicans in next year's election.

If you look at how huge the swing was towards the Dems it indicates that even gerrymandered riding's may not help the GOP in the mid terms. The question is, is this a pro dem movement or simply an anti Trump one.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 09, 2017, 08:49:01 am
If the Democrats can win the Virginia legislature - which depends on recounts in tight elections - it could impact the House. Both Virginia senators are Democrats, but House elections are based on gerrymandered districts drawn by the current Republican controlled legislature. That's why there are 7 Republicans and 4 Democrats. If the Dems quickly redraw those districts to be less Republican friendly that will cost the Republicans in next year's election.
Yes, Gerrymandering has given the republicans an unfair advantage.

But from what I understand, the next time the district lines are expected to be redrawn is (I think) 2020. Not sure if the Dems have the ability to redraw districts at a whim.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 09, 2017, 01:08:25 pm
So Trump now says he doesn't blame China for "raping" the US as he claimed they had nomerous times did during his campaign. Of course he says that now while he's actually in China. Of course given his history and his comments regarding sexual assault, he apparently doesn't find **** all that blameable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 10, 2017, 11:29:39 am
Trump's position on China was one of the few areas where I agreed with him. It's disappointing to see him so easily duped. I doubt those blue collar unions who supported him in the election will be very happy either.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 10, 2017, 11:42:15 am
Wait a minute, that was yesterday.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/10/trump-attacks-countries-cheating-america-at-apec-summit (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/10/trump-attacks-countries-cheating-america-at-apec-summit)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 10, 2017, 01:48:15 pm
Wait a minute, that was yesterday.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/10/trump-attacks-countries-cheating-america-at-apec-summit (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/10/trump-attacks-countries-cheating-america-at-apec-summit)

Wow it's hard to keep up with his ricochets. I imagine those comments will have President Xi rolling his eyes. The latest odds I hear are that Trump/Putin meeting won't happen, neither formally or else, and next he is off to have a chat with the murderer Duterte. So what exactly will he have accomplished with this great Asia trip other than pissing off one of his countries biggest trading partners? And of course the Roy Moore story is taking the spotlight away from Trump at the moment. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 10, 2017, 08:28:04 pm
Bannon now says he is "standing with Roy Moore". He is doing nothing more than trying to run interference for Moore so he can get a senate seat. Didn't I hear something a few months ago about Trump "draining the swamp"? All I see so far is more stinky scum in that swamp. And it looks like the tax reform will end up in the same ditch as repeal and replace. So it's not only a stinky swamp, but an ineffectual one as well.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on November 11, 2017, 01:27:21 am
So Trump now says he doesn't blame China for "raping" the US as he claimed they had nomerous times did during his campaign. Of course he says that now while he's actually in China. Of course given his history and his comments regarding sexual assault, he apparently doesn't find **** all that blameable.

Neither does Hillary!!!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 12, 2017, 12:16:44 am
Trump now says there was Russian meddling in the election. This guy's hilarious, or would be if not for the office some idiots handed him the keys to.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on November 12, 2017, 12:28:01 am
Neither does Hillary!!!
I realize it may have escaped your notice, but Hillary is not in office.  Nor did she ever state in so many words "Guys grab women's pussies, no big deal".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 12, 2017, 12:47:48 am
Neither does Hillary!!!

Are you a pizzagate fan or something?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on November 12, 2017, 12:53:14 am
Are you a pizzagate fan or something?

Nope just commenting on her actions throughout Bill Clinton’s shenanigans.  She will pay whatever price for power including being married to a sleaze ball
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 12, 2017, 01:03:01 am
Nope just commenting on her actions throughout Bill Clinton’s shenanigans.  She will pay whatever price for power including being married to a sleaze ball

She has no price to pay, the FBI has determined that some time ago. Now about sleaze ball's, are you aware of the sex assault suits await Trump when he leaves, or more likely is forced out of office? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on November 12, 2017, 01:29:23 am
She has no price to pay, the FBI has determined that some time ago. Now about sleaze ball's, are you aware of the sex assault suits await Trump when he leaves, or more likely is forced out of office?

That’s right they settled those old sex allegations out of court.  I think the dnc brass has now assured the Clintons won’t be anywhere near the levers of power again. 

It’s still early to see if Hillary gets away Scott free.

I could care less if trump has to deal with sex assault suits when he’s done from office, if the allegations are true he can answer to them
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 12, 2017, 01:41:09 am
That’s right they settled those old sex allegations out of court.  I think the dnc brass has now assured the Clintons won’t be anywhere near the levers of power again. 

It’s still early to see if Hillary gets away Scott free.

I could care less if trump has to deal with sex assault suits when he’s done from office, if the allegations are true he can answer to them
You seem a bit behind the times. The Clintons have already held the highest levels of power. Trump stumbled into power through the archaic EC system, ad has made a fool of himself ever since. When he loses the congress  his impeachable activities will come back to haunt him I suspect.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 12, 2017, 07:07:40 am
That’s right they settled those old sex allegations out of court.  I think the dnc brass has now assured the Clintons won’t be anywhere near the levers of power again. 

It’s still early to see if Hillary gets away Scott free.

I could care less if trump has to deal with sex assault suits when he’s done from office, if the allegations are true he can answer to them
You couldn't care less about Republican men who have already confessed to sexual assault; you only care about attacking Democrat women whose husbands have been accused of sexual assault. Wow. That's some impressive cognitive dissonance.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on November 12, 2017, 12:01:02 pm
You couldn't care less about Republican men who have already confessed to sexual assault; you only care about attacking Democrat women whose husbands have been accused of sexual assault. Wow. That's some impressive cognitive dissonance.

Putting words in my mouth are we?  Trump has to DEAL with his potential suits, I could care less about the consequences of his actions because he did them.

Cognitive dissonance indeed...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 12, 2017, 12:12:35 pm
It’s still early to see if Hillary gets away Scott free.

Scott free from what, exactly?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on November 12, 2017, 12:24:58 pm
Scott free from what, exactly?

The continuing scandals associated to her.  Uranium one, funding the trump dossier, and fixing the dnc primary.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 12, 2017, 12:26:27 pm
The continuing scandals associated to her.  Uranium one, funding the trump dossier, and fixing the dnc primary.

The 'uranium scandal' is a made-up bit of nonsense. There's no THERE there. Her funding opposition research is also completely routine. Nor did it say SHE fixed the DNC, but that the DCN didn't want comrade Bernie as their leader. Unsurprising given he wasn't even a Democrat.

What else ya got?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on November 12, 2017, 12:29:33 pm
The 'uranium scandal' is a made-up bit of nonsense. There's no THERE there. Her funding opposition research is also completely routine. Nor did it say SHE fixed the DNC, but that the DCN didn't want comrade Bernie as their leader. Unsurprising given he wasn't even a Democrat.

What else ya got?

There is still smoke there that needs to be looked at and it shows a pattern of shadiness that Americans saw fit to elect Donald Trump over her. 

Imagine being that garbage of a candidate that mitt Romney gets more votes in Wisconsin than trump and Romney still lost the state. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 12, 2017, 12:37:42 pm
There is still smoke there that needs to be looked at and it shows a pattern of shadiness that Americans saw fit to elect Donald Trump over her. 

Circular argument there.  Trump brings up a fake scandal, and people believe it and this is validated by them electing Trump ?

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on November 12, 2017, 12:49:15 pm
Circular argument there.  Trump brings up a fake scandal, and people believe it and this is validated by them electing Trump ?

No, Donna Brazile validated trumps claim the dnc primary was rigged.

There was enough of a crook reputation for Hillary that she lost the election and not only that the media lost credibility by their hit job on trump.  Trump may be full of it a lot of the time, now we are seeing the media bias in their reporting left and right.  No wonder so many people are cutting their cable!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 12, 2017, 12:57:21 pm
No, Donna Brazile validated trumps claim the dnc primary was rigged.

Possibly.  SJ has pointed out reasons that they didn't want him, though.  And the Foundation and  Uranium One are just noise.

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 12, 2017, 01:01:44 pm
No, Donna Brazile validated trumps claim the dnc primary was rigged.

There was enough of a crook reputation for Hillary that she lost the election and not only that the media lost credibility by their hit job on trump.  Trump may be full of it a lot of the time, now we are seeing the media bias in their reporting left and right.  No wonder so many people are cutting their cable!

You seem to forget/ignore the fact 3 million more voters cast ballots for Hillary. The EC elected him and we know that's rigged. I think people should cut the part of their cable that carries Breitbart and the like.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on November 12, 2017, 01:26:37 pm
Possibly.  SJ has pointed out reasons that they didn't want him, though.  And the Foundation and  Uranium One are just noise.

Noise that is slowly getting louder
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on November 12, 2017, 01:29:46 pm
You seem to forget/ignore the fact 3 million more voters cast ballots for Hillary. The EC elected him and we know that's rigged. I think people should cut the part of their cable that carries Breitbart and the like.

The electoral college was set up so that the eastern seaboard doesn’t dictate what happens for the country.  Barack Obama won with the same electoral college.

Breitbart has as much right to broadcast their opinions as msnbc, Vox, or salon
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 12, 2017, 02:22:40 pm
The electoral college was set up so that the eastern seaboard doesn’t dictate what happens for the country.  Barack Obama won with the same electoral college.
t regularly  as much right to broadcast their opinions as msnbc, Vox, or salon

Ah there were other reasons for the EC which are totally outdated now. In any case, Obama was voted in by the people as well. Breitbart gets caught regularly espousing actual fake news. If you want to ignore facts that's your right.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on November 12, 2017, 03:06:18 pm
Ah there were other reasons for the EC which are totally outdated now. In any case, Obama was voted in by the people as well. Breitbart gets caught regularly espousing actual fake news. If you want to ignore facts that's your right.

The ec isn’t outdated as it helps balance power among the regions which keeps the union in tact.  As much as breitbart is a blind supporter of trump without much objectivity, we are seeing other outlets caught with fake news and the like.  It’s a sign of the times when everyone is skeptical of all media which is in my opinion a good thing as people use more sources and filter out the biases to get information.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 12, 2017, 03:15:46 pm
Noise that is slowly getting louder

I am not surprised that they need to get louder as the Russian investigation nears its logical conclusion.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 12, 2017, 03:31:07 pm
Noise that is slowly getting louder

There isn't even a hint of illegality here. Clinton did not make the decision about the uranium sale, which, btw, was no big deal anyway, or Harper would have halted it. And whatever the DNC chooses to do is their business, not the government's.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 12, 2017, 04:51:26 pm
The ec isn’t outdated as it helps balance power among the regions which keeps the union in tact.  As much as breitbart is a blind supporter of trump without much objectivity, we are seeing other outlets caught with fake news and the like.  It’s a sign of the times when everyone is skeptical of all media which is in my opinion a good thing as people use more sources and filter out the biases to get information.

Unfortunately, more and more they are using sources that enforce their biases. Sources that are not held accountable for what they issue. When millions look to Facebook and Twitter as credible news sources, there is a problem.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on November 12, 2017, 07:30:23 pm
Unfortunately, more and more they are using sources that enforce their biases. Sources that are not held accountable for what they issue. When millions look to Facebook and Twitter as credible news sources, there is a problem.

That can be said about all sides of the spectrum.  Daily wire vs box or salon
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 12, 2017, 07:56:04 pm
That can be said about all sides of the spectrum.  Daily wire vs box or salon

I prefer sources that actually do a little fact checking. fox ain't one of 'em.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on November 12, 2017, 08:51:46 pm
I prefer sources that actually do a little fact checking. fox ain't one of 'em.

That’s subjective
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 12, 2017, 09:35:03 pm
That’s subjective

Take a look at how breitbart tried to comment about what happened with Roy Moore. They made a claim through their local affiliate that "nobody in Alabama believed the allegations. Turns out the interview involved FOUR people. If you're looking for subjectivity, there ya go.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Blueblood on November 12, 2017, 10:01:04 pm
Take a look at how breitbart tried to comment about what happened with Roy Moore. They made a claim through their local affiliate that "nobody in Alabama believed the allegations. Turns out the interview involved FOUR people. If you're looking for subjectivity, there ya go.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/12/senate-gop-has-constitutional-option-on-moore-last-senator-ousted-in-1862.html

This is Fox News and it’s giving a pretty reasonable story on the pickle the republicans are in.  Breitbart isn’t very objective as they are too much trump cheerleaders.  Daily wire which is right slanted which they acknowledge calls balls and strikes on trump.  Vox and salon are left leaning and get their share of views.  Like I said people are picking and choosing where they get their info and are aware of the various biases each source has.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 13, 2017, 01:07:52 am
So Trump is now sitting down in the Philippines and praising Duterte who is a self described murderer who brags about killing drug users/sellers by his own hand. Could he get any scummier?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 13, 2017, 06:00:20 am
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/12/senate-gop-has-constitutional-option-on-moore-last-senator-ousted-in-1862.html

This is Fox News and it’s giving a pretty reasonable story on the pickle the republicans are in

It was long but what I read seemed pretty even-keel.  I am heartened.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 13, 2017, 03:34:34 pm
No, Donna Brazile validated trumps claim the dnc primary was rigged.
Actually no, she didn't.

From: http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/05/politics/donna-brazile-primary-rigged/index.html
...the former interim chair of the DNC says she found "no evidence" the Democratic primary was rigged. "I found no evidence, none whatsoever," she told ABC's "This Week."

So not even Brazile said what you claim she said.

Now, was Hillary influential in the party? Yes., she had been a member for decades. Did many of the executive prefer her to win? Again yes... understandable that they would prefer a long-time democrat to win over someone who had only just joined the party.

But that does not mean that the primary was rigged. In the U.S. system, the primaries are controlled at the state level. The federal Democratic party has little or no control over the voting during the primaries (instead they concern themselves with the election itself.) Sanders had every chance to win, and if he failed, the reason has less to do with the fact that the voting was 'rigged' than the fact that he was a newcomer to the party with little name recognition.

Quote
There was enough of a crook reputation for Hillary that she lost the election...
Yes there was. The question is whether that reputation was deserved.

The fact that she kept getting investigated by the very partisan republicans in congress (who kept coming up with... nothing) suggests that the reputation was undeserved.

Quote
...and not only that the media lost credibility by their hit job on trump.
Actually if there's anything the media lost credibility on its in that they treated trump with kid gloves.

Trump really is a reprehensible human being (a bigot and a con artist). For every possible scandal hillary had, you can easily point to 2 that trump had. If the media treated both candidates equally, it would have been much worse for Trump. (And not because they were targeting Trump, but because he lies more and has more scandals.) But, since they want to appear unbiased, they spent less time proportionally on Trump's scandals than they deserved.

Quote
Trump may be full of it a lot of the time, now we are seeing the media bias in their reporting left and right.  No wonder so many people are cutting their cable!
Here's the thing.

I have no doubt that most of the media is biased. But, when it comes to the 'left wing', much of the bias appear to be restricted to (for example) op-eds and the like. When it comes to the right wing, you have people like Fox News who tend to build stories out of misinformation, and sites like infowars and Brietbart, that are well known for things like racism and conspiracy theory nonsense.

Not every attack on Trump is a sign of 'bias'. Given all of the scandals and Trump's general incompetence, even a non-biased source will end up making Trump look bad.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on November 14, 2017, 07:43:08 am
There isn't even a hint of illegality here. Clinton did not make the decision about the uranium sale, which, btw, was no big deal anyway, or Harper would have halted it. And whatever the DNC chooses to do is their business, not the government's.

If Trump did that now, many would rake him over the burning coals.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 14, 2017, 12:46:43 pm
If Trump did that now, many would rake him over the burning coals.

But Clinton DIDN'T do that. Period.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on November 14, 2017, 04:52:30 pm
But Clinton DIDN'T do that. Period.

Riiiiiight.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 14, 2017, 05:35:37 pm
Riiiiiight.

The FBI have been up one side of Hillary and down the other. Nothing found. Time to move on don't you think?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 14, 2017, 06:38:20 pm
Riiiiiight.

There is no evidence Clinton had anything to do with the decision, and even if she did the decision was originally made by Canada, and was simply not considered very important as the company being sold did not have many assets in the US. The Russians mostly bought it for its assets in Kazhakstan. There is no illegality here.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 14, 2017, 08:03:20 pm
The world is too complicated now.  We're back in the age where warlocks made up stories and people believed them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 14, 2017, 08:32:31 pm
Riiiiiight.

Trump is so full of crap on this latest Clinton theory that even Fox News has called him out on it:

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/360371-fox-news-shepard-smith-hits-trump-for-inaccurate-claims-on-uranium-one-deal

All based on a false claim from Breitpravda.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 14, 2017, 08:47:45 pm
If this is where democracy is going we have to resist it as much as possible.  The enemy is chaos, not each other.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 15, 2017, 05:11:00 am
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/930655291569524736

Unbelievable. 

President cuts/pastes condolences from the last mass shooting, forgets to change the city name. 

Rather than taking collective action against a preventable social horror, it's now treated like an empty social ritual where you scotch tape up the cardboard 'condolences... thoughts & prayers' decorations once a year... or once a week....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 15, 2017, 05:12:34 am
I just saw a suggestion that his phone was offline and the original tweet went through when he got back from Asia.  Possible ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 15, 2017, 11:01:56 am
The world is too complicated now.  We're back in the age where warlocks made up stories and people believed them.

Funny you should mention warlocks. Trump has just appointed a ghost hunter who was unanimously deemed "not qualified" by the American Bar Association, to a lifetime appointment as a federal judge.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42001038
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 15, 2017, 12:40:31 pm
Incompetent President, incompetent appointees. Surprise?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 15, 2017, 12:43:39 pm
Funny you should mention warlocks. Trump has just appointed a ghost hunter who was unanimously deemed "not qualified" by the American Bar Association, to a lifetime appointment as a federal judge.
And even more scary, he was approved by Republicans in the senate committee that evaluates judicial appointments. (He may still get voted down by the entire senate, but given the type of people republican senators have already approved, the chance of that is small.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 15, 2017, 12:51:15 pm
I see there is an open discussion going on on The Hill as to whether Trump's instability should require a change to the rules as to who can launch a nuclear strike. I had a brief moment of recalling that anxious feeling i had as a kid when there was talk of moving the hands on the nuclear clock closer to 12 and such things. The last time I recall this type of concern was under Nixon when they kept "the football" out of his reach as he was nearing impeachment and hitting the bottle pretty hard. It will be interesting to see how Trump reacts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 15, 2017, 01:08:43 pm
I just saw a suggestion that his phone was offline and the original tweet went through when he got back from Asia.  Possible ?
I saw both tweets... there are several differences (he uses 'with' in one, and 'w/' in the other, one where he says law enforcement "have arrived", the other says they are "on the scene".

So, its not just the original tweet rebroadcast somehow.

MAYBE he had started writing it earlier, didn't send it at the time, wrote the second one, and the first one hung around in a buffer somewhere.

But if that's true (and it was just some old tweet that got sent out), there is another problem: Trump still hasn't said anything about the recent shootings in California. In the past few hours he has tweeted about the "failing NY times", how horrible CNN was to watch, and boasts about how well he's doing at his job. About the shootings? Nothing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 16, 2017, 10:19:28 pm
So baby Trump likes to go to Africa and shoot elephants, and then take hero red neck pics beside the dead animal, and selfies with him wielding the severed tail of his latest "conquest". That must be pretty tough shooting something the size of a house trailer that walks along about 3 mph. and now daddy Trump is going to open the border to allow ivory carvings back across the US border. Can these pricks get any scummier? I hope baby boy gets trampled to death by one of the remaining herds of pachyderms.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 17, 2017, 12:09:57 am
cause the douche doesn't fall far from the bag! Cheeto defers to Uday & Qusay:

(https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi66.tinypic.com%2F2moqgeb.jpg&hash=ebdea68f9f40fd943387633e42a5eae2bde8d865)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 17, 2017, 06:08:51 am
Kharma will come fast and swift, but we must push for unity after this scourge is gone or we are all done.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 17, 2017, 09:46:50 am
Kharma will come fast and swift, but we must push for unity after this scourge is gone or we are all done.

Unfortunately, Trump is not the disease. He is the symptom. The Republicans have been veering off towards an almost anarchic state of hatred for government and all government regulations and 'entitlements' for more than a decade now, and also getting progressively less interested in any sort of compromise or cooperation with anyone who thinks differently. They respond only to their owners/fund raisers and the baying howls of the likes of FOX and Brietbart. Their consistent demands to cut taxes has nothing to do with helping the middle class, and everything to do with robbing government of what it needs to operate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 18, 2017, 08:01:42 am
I agree, but I would add that the Republicans are the symptom too.

The fact that you, a conservative, are adamantly against what is happening with them is a call-out for unity.  I also believe that a giant swing to the left is coming, economically, but I don't know how that will impact us...

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 18, 2017, 10:29:58 am
I agree, but I would add that the Republicans are the symptom too.

The fact that you, a conservative, are adamantly against what is happening with them is a call-out for unity.  I also believe that a giant swing to the left is coming, economically, but I don't know how that will impact us...

The Republicans aren't conservative any more. Read some of the stuff David Frum has been writing about them for the last some years. I was watching a US network panel the other day talking about the budget, and someone mentioned that while it passed through the house easily enough there are still a few fiscal conservatives among the Republicans in the senate.

A few. In the senate. Among Republicans.
Fiscal conservatives would look at record corporate profits a booming economy and a 4% unemployment rate, and raise taxes in order to balance the budget, not cut them in order to have an even larger deficit. Where is the money for the massive infrastructure program America needs and which all parties, including Trump, say it has to have? An even larger deficit?

Being Republican now is about gays, guns, God, abortion and cutting taxes. That's pretty much it. Screw everything else. The only reason they can survive and win is because of the backing of wealthy elites who don't care about anything but having low taxes because they don't need any government help with anything, and because of gerrymandered electoral districts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 18, 2017, 10:45:47 am
Well said but ... still worrying.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 18, 2017, 03:09:58 pm
I just listened to back to back segments of interview with Kelly Annd Conway and Sarah Sanders, both flailing around trying to support their boss of course. I now think I know what it would be like to get trapped in a paddock full of peacocks.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 20, 2017, 07:01:36 am
And now a fight with high schools students + parent.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/18/politics/lavar-ball-donald-trump/index.html

I really am barely following him anymore.  I think I will tune in next when the tax bill fails in the senate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 21, 2017, 10:11:17 pm
So Trump, Kelly Anne Conway etal reckon it's better to have an accused child molester in the senate than a democrat. Wasn't Trump blabbing some **** about draining the swamp once upon a time?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on November 21, 2017, 10:56:37 pm
FYI - the President of the United States doesn't go by hairball. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 21, 2017, 11:32:49 pm
FYI - the President of the United States doesn't go by hairball.

Oh. Is it becoming apparent that I have lost any respect for him I never had?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on November 22, 2017, 10:51:52 am
Oh. Is it becoming apparent that I have lost any respect for him I never had?

People actually had respect for Trump?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 22, 2017, 11:24:24 am
Quote
FYI - the President of the United States doesn't go by hairball.
Oh. Is it becoming apparent that I have lost any respect for him I never had?
There was a request on the forum a few months back from the moderators that we only use proper names to refer to people.

I kind of understand... I'd prefer to refer to Trump as a racist orangutan, but then if we start using various nick names then in theory a Trump supporter could start referring to Hillary Clinton as 'Killary'. From there, the discussion becomes just a little more juvenile.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 22, 2017, 11:35:56 am
FYI - the President of the United States doesn't go by hairball.

What does it matter what we call the idiot?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 22, 2017, 11:36:53 am
Oh. Is it becoming apparent that I have lost any respect for him I never had?
There was a request on the forum a few months back from the moderators that we only use proper names to refer to people.

I kind of understand... I'd prefer to refer to Trump as a racist orangutan, but then if we start using various nick names then in theory a Trump supporter could start referring to Hillary Clinton as 'Killary'. From there, the discussion becomes just a little more juvenile.

Can we refer to him as "The guy whose own secretary of state calls a moron."? Would that be safe?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 22, 2017, 11:42:33 am
Can we refer to him as "The guy whose own secretary of state calls a moron."? Would that be safe?
How about we refer to him as "the guy who's own staff fakes bad phone connections so they don't have to talk to him".

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/22/tom-carper-says-gary-cohn-faked-bad-connection-to-get-off-trump-call.html
Top White House economic advisor Gary Cohn pretended to have a bad connection to get off a call with President Donald Trump...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 22, 2017, 11:44:58 am
I shall defer to forum rules and refrain from using other than Donald's proper name...although I may spit whilst I type. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on November 22, 2017, 11:57:15 am
What does it matter what we call the idiot?

One of my few rules.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on November 22, 2017, 12:50:44 pm
For my two cents, it has become clear to me Trump is not a conservative. There are ultra conservatives and moderate conservatives in the Republican party. Moderate conservatives like John McCain other than on economic policies were quite progressive. Ultra conservatives were more likely to be fundamental Christians an the fundamental Christian vote was essential, in fact absolutely essential for the Republicans to win elections. They were and remain the most elaborate political network of civilians.

However even within the ultra conservatives, they have distanced from Trump. I think the people today supporting Trump are a fragmented segment of Americans that are ANGRY, period. Trump's entire premises, his entire basis of support is to incite anger and use that anger as his justification for existing. There is no inherent political ideology in what he stands for other than if you hate something, want to belittle something or insult something, he's the man for you. His entire act is predicated on insulting and belittling.

The problem is we don't know who has him controlled. He is the proverbial naked Emperor. He's made to feel he is in control. Allowing him to keep his favourite look at me narcissist toy the tweet, he's pacified but who really is calling the shots while keeping him thinking he is omnipotent and in charge? None of us know who is manipulating the decisions within the chaos of his office.  Do you and I know who is making money in the midst of the chaos that Capital Hill has become? Who benefits from an unstable America?  Has Russia really infiltrated US politics and used Trump to weaken America?

Allow me to opine I suspect China. Mega-nationals favour free trade by the US. The only country negatively impacted by US free trade is China. A US trading in free markets is  direct competition to China's dumping of goods to create trade deficits in its favour so it can continue to sell inferior products world wise. A healthy free trading US especially working along side European, Japanese-Pacific markets, would be a direct threat to Chinese exports.

I see China as the only one benefitting from the current chaos and Trump isolationist policies removing the US as a Chinese competitor on world markets,  not Russia.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 22, 2017, 01:03:30 pm
Liberalism is an urban elitist phenomena in the U. It can win elections when Republicans are divided but if Republicans are not divided, they continually are able to win the electoral vote by bringing in the rural vote which in the long run with the electoral system surpasses concentrated liberal votes in cities like New York, Boston, Chicago, Miami, Los Angeles, Atlanta.

it's called gerrymandering - and the Republicans are a force that's worked to redistrict GOP state level and, effectively, Congressional numbers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-power-that-gerrymandering-has-brought-to-republicans/2016/06/17/045264ae-2903-11e6-ae4a-3cdd5fe74204_story.html?utm_term=.fcafde052707 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-power-that-gerrymandering-has-brought-to-republicans/2016/06/17/045264ae-2903-11e6-ae4a-3cdd5fe74204_story.html?utm_term=.fcafde052707)

for all the faults of our electoral process, at least provinces have independent bodies to ensure, supposedly, new/changed ridings are properly designed to reflect population increases/shifts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on November 22, 2017, 01:11:12 pm
it's called gerrymandering - and the Republicans are a force that's worked to redistrict GOP state level and, effectively, Congressional numbers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-power-that-gerrymandering-has-brought-to-republicans/2016/06/17/045264ae-2903-11e6-ae4a-3cdd5fe74204_story.html?utm_term=.fcafde052707 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-power-that-gerrymandering-has-brought-to-republicans/2016/06/17/045264ae-2903-11e6-ae4a-3cdd5fe74204_story.html?utm_term=.fcafde052707)

for all the faults of our electoral process, at least provinces have independent bodies to ensure, supposedly, new/changed ridings are properly designed to reflect population increases/shifts.

I edited and shortened down my previous comments while you responded taking out the sentence you responded to. Sorry. I like your response to it by the way.

Just to add to what you said, I think Trump has divided and fractured the Republican party and as long as he is in office, the Republicans will self destruct. Their attempt to co-exist with him can not work. Its destroying them. If he lasts in office, they run he real risk of being run out of both chambers of the Congress let alone the White House. If they can't find a healing figure to unite the Republicans and replace him my bet at this point is President Joe Biden in a few years unless he dies. The Republicans need an outside unifying force real fast.

I am tempted to say Duane the Rock Johnson and Jesse Ventura as his Veep running mate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 22, 2017, 01:18:28 pm
Trump can pardon a couple of turkeys, but he can't seem to leave Lavar Ball alone, and meanwhile he seems to ignore 3 missing soldiers after a US navy plane crashes after leaving a carriers off the coast of Japan. Could his priorities be much more F'ed up I wonder?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 22, 2017, 01:47:56 pm
For my two cents, it has become clear to me Trump is not a conservative. There are ultra conservatives and moderate conservatives in the Republican party. Moderate conservatives like John McCain other than on economic policies were quite progressive. Ultra conservatives were more likely to be fundamental Christians an the fundamental Christian vote was essential, in fact absolutely essential for the Republicans to win elections. They were and remain the most elaborate political network of civilians.
Since he has gained power, Trump has:
- pushed to relax environmental regulations in order to benefit businesses
- Pushed for tax reductions
- Called for an increase in military spending
- Appointed hard-line social conservatives to the supreme court, with the goal of overturning Roe v. Wade
- Has invoked various right wing 'dog whistle' policies, such as scaling back transgender rights, tougher immigration rules, etc.
About the only non-conservative thing he's done was to kill trade deals

So, given his policies and actions, Trump is a conservative.
Quote
However even within the ultra conservatives, they have distanced from Trump.
The fact that many conservatives are distancing themselves from Trump doesn't mean that Trump is not a conservative. It means that other conservatives recognize that Trump is a flawed person. Remember, while many conservatives have commented on Trump's negative aspects (such as his racism), the majority still fell into line to confirm his nominations, or to vote for his tax plans or health care changes. (Well, technically they weren't Trump's changes but he supported them.)
Quote
I think the people today supporting Trump are a fragmented segment of Americans that are ANGRY, period.
I think its a combination of anger and stupidity.

Much of the anger is directed at things that are simply not a problem, and their solution (vote for a racist Orangutan who will "drain the swamp") is counterproductive. But many of his supporters are not smart enough to recognize that.
Quote
Who benefits from an unstable America? Russia? China? Iran?  North Korea?
Russia and North Korea do mostly.

China is a major trading partner for the U.S.. Making America unstable would likely have a major impact to their economy. And while Iran may be adversarial to the U.S., they have been attempting to end sanctions/improve their economy/etc. Support from a stable U.S. would benefit them most.
Quote
Has Russia really infiltrated US politics and used Trump to weaken America? Is it China or is it simply internal faighting between Americans?
All evidence points to Russia. All. Of. It.
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I have to suspect China and I will explain why. Mega-nationals favour free trade by the US. The only country negatively impacted by US free trade is China. Its a direct competition to China's dumping of goods to create tarde deficits in its favour so it can continue to sell inferior products world wise. A healthy free trading US especially working along side European, Japanese-Pacific markets, would be a direct threat to Chinese exports.
Free trade typically improves the economic performance of all countries. It would be foolish of China to destabilize the U.S. because it would impact their ability to trade with the U.S. as well. A crashed U.S. economy can't buy anything from China.
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I see China as the one benefitting from the current chaos not Russia. Russia could have sold all its oil to Europe through US networks and made far more money than being trapped into a long term deal with China similar to the ones that have captured Iran, Sudan, Mozambique, Angola. and reduced the price of gas and oil to way below free  market prices.
The destabilizing of the U.S. (and the appointment of a pro-Russian stooge like Trump) benefits Russia in several ways:
- It can weaken western response to Russian efforts to expand control in eastern Europe
- It gives Russia more freedom to support Assad in Syria
- It deflects from their own abuses (since they can always point out to conflicts in the U.S.... "See? Look how racist they are. Now excuse me while we go lock up these homosexuals.")

In addition, you also have the personal spite from Putin himself. He definitely has autocratic tendencies, and doing something that harms the main geopolitical rival is something I can see him doing just out of spite.
Quote
China's the one that replaced the US as Israel's principal military ally to guarantee Iran and Syria would stay clear of it via their influence on Iran and Russia, the proxy controller of Syria.
Uhhh... what? Last time I checked, Israel was flying American-built planes, and using American-built munitions.

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Liberalism is an urban elitist phenomena in the U.
Wouldn't say its "elitist", since many of the people that it attempts to benefit are the lower classes. Yes, there are some relatively well-off people who classify themselves as liberals, but that doesn't mean that they ignore (for example) the unemployed.
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It can win elections when Republicans are divided but if Republicans are not divided, they continually are able to win the electoral vote by bringing in the rural vote which in the long run with the electoral system surpasses concentrated liberal votes in cities like New York, Boston, Chicago, Miami, Los Angeles, Atlanta.
The republicans do benefit by appealing to rural voters.

They also win elections by cheating: voter suppression and gerrymandering. However, as demographics shift (and minorities make up a larger part of the electorate), their ability to win by such methods will decrease. Once that happens, minority voters will look at the republicans and say "why would I vote for the people who tried to keep me from voting before?"

Republican senator Jeff Flake was caught on tape saying that: "If we become the party of Roy Moore and Donald Trump, we are toast".
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/jeff-flake-live-mic-republican-party-toast-under-donald-trump-a8064231.html

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 22, 2017, 01:57:42 pm
it's called gerrymandering - and the Republicans are a force that's worked to redistrict GOP state level and, effectively, Congressional numbers.
Gerrymandering is a major problem, and one that needs to be fixed.

But, ultimately it affects only congressional districts. In the senate, each state gets 2 seats, and the president is selected by the electoral college (which, again, deals with states as a whole rather than congressional districts.)

Still, it does mean that a voter in a state like Wyoming gets more influence in deciding who the president is and how the country should be run than a voter from New York.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 22, 2017, 03:29:11 pm
Since he has gained power, Trump has:
- pushed to relax environmental regulations in order to benefit businesses
- Pushed for tax reductions
- Called for an increase in military spending
- Appointed hard-line social conservatives to the supreme court, with the goal of overturning Roe v. Wade
- Has invoked various right wing 'dog whistle' policies, such as scaling back transgender rights, tougher immigration rules, etc.
About the only non-conservative thing he's done was to kill trade deals

So, given his policies and actions, Trump is a conservative.

All of the above are what Americans call conservative issues. But they're really something of a gross caricature of conservative issues. As a conservative, I want tax cuts - but only after the budget is not only balanced, but we've paid down the debt, and after everything which needs to be done is done properly. That includes no highways in need of repair. No bridges about to fall down. Etc. As a conservative I want the best legal minds appointed to the supreme court, not some social conservative who agrees with me on one single policy issue. As a conservative I want tougher immigration, it's true, but a lot of liberals aren't happy about immigrants flooding in and changing our culture and values either. As far as environmental rules, I want enough to ensure the environment is protected, but I don't want ten years of traipsing through a myriad of studies, hearings, and consultations to get to the decision. I think what I've heard of Trump's cutting of environmental rules is stupid and counter productive.

Besides, I don't think Trump really gives a **** about many if any of these policies. He's just acting like a good sales guy, telling people what he thinks will make the sale. He's 71 years old, and he's never acted like a conservative, either politically or personality-wise, in his life.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 22, 2017, 03:49:21 pm

Since he has gained power, Trump has:
- pushed to relax environmental regulations in order to benefit businesses
- Pushed for tax reductions
- Called for an increase in military spending
- Appointed hard-line social conservatives to the supreme court, with the goal of overturning Roe v. Wade
- Has invoked various right wing 'dog whistle' policies, such as scaling back transgender rights, tougher immigration rules, etc.
About the only non-conservative thing he's done was to kill trade deals

So, given his policies and actions, Trump is a conservative.




Pretty much a conservative agenda. What makes him a bit more of a phony is he paraded as a Democrat when he thought that might be good for sales.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 22, 2017, 04:03:18 pm
Quote
Since he has gained power, Trump has:
- pushed to relax environmental regulations in order to benefit businesses
- Pushed for tax reductions
- Called for an increase in military spending
- Appointed hard-line social conservatives to the supreme court, with the goal of overturning Roe v. Wade
- Has invoked various right wing 'dog whistle' policies, such as scaling back transgender rights, tougher immigration rules, etc.
About the only non-conservative thing he's done was to kill trade deals

So, given his policies and actions, Trump is a conservative.
All of the above are what Americans call conservative issues. But they're really something of a gross caricature of conservative issues.
I wouldn't necessarily call them a "caricature" of conservative values. As with any political philosophy (conservatism, Liberalism, social democracy, etc.) there can be a significant amount of leeway over some of the issues (including priority). But the list of issues I presented above are ones that are typical of conservatives. In general they are more concerned with business than the environment. In general they favor stronger military spending. In general they prefer lower taxes. You can of course find exceptions (such as a pro-environment conservative), but I don't think a person can consider themselves a conservative and not believe in at least some of the list that I posted.

Quote
As a conservative, I want tax cuts - but only after the budget is not only balanced...
Well, technically Trump claims his tax cuts will stimulate the economy enough that it will compensate for the lower rates.

It is B.S., but he is paying lip service to it.
Quote
...but we've paid down the debt, and after everything which needs to be done is done properly. That includes no highways in need of repair. No bridges about to fall down. Etc.
There is nothing that says a person can't be a conservative and still favor debt reduction over tax cuts. But that's just an issue of priorities. Both a "tax cut before balanced budget" and a "balanced budget then tax cut" could be considered conservative positions.

Now, if Trump had said "Lets increase taxes so we can increase social spending", that would suggest he's not a conservative.
Quote
As a conservative I want the best legal minds appointed to the supreme court, not some social conservative who agrees with me on one single policy issue.
Wanting the "best minds" on the supreme court doesn't make a person a conservative or Liberal. What makes a person a conservative is if their idea of "best mind" is one that comes to a conclusion that you happen to agree with.

Quote
Besides, I don't think Trump really gives a **** about many if any of these policies.
Maybe, maybe not. But even if he is just role playing, I think there comes a point where if you pretend to be something (like a conservative) with enough conviction, we can assume that you are actually that thing you pretend to be.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 27, 2017, 05:03:13 pm
Trump makes a complete and utter **** of himself yet again today by inviting native Navajo's to the WH who served the country in WWII as code talkers, and then trots out his "Pocahantas" racial slur while addressing a roomful of them. What a friggin' dolt. They served,while he wimped out with his "bone spur" bullshit. I'd hang my head in shame were I an American.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on November 27, 2017, 08:52:53 pm
Trump makes a complete and utter **** of himself yet again today by inviting native Navajo's to the WH who served the country in WWII as code talkers, and then trots out his "Pocahantas" racial slur while addressing a roomful of them. What a friggin' dolt. They served,while he wimped out with his "bone spur" bullshit. I'd hang my head in shame were I an American.

The Navajo are American.  I'd hang my head in shame if I was Trump, or if I was anyone that thought he was a good idea. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on November 27, 2017, 08:56:14 pm
Trump makes a complete and utter **** of himself yet again today by inviting native Navajo's to the WH who served the country in WWII as code talkers, and then trots out his "Pocahantas" racial slur while addressing a roomful of them. What a friggin' dolt. They served,while he wimped out with his "bone spur" bullshit. I'd hang my head in shame were I an American.
The bigger insult was doing it in front of a picture of Jackson.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 27, 2017, 09:29:26 pm
The bigger insult was doing it in front of a picture of Jackson.

I didn't catch that at the time, I was focused on the face of that man to his right who's shoulder he put his hand on while he proceeded to insult him. When that was pointed out later, I had to wonder if that was intentional. How low can this **** go?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on November 28, 2017, 06:54:57 am
Well, since it was only insulting to indigenous people, even lower presumably since his base probably takes pride in being **** to indigenous people.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 28, 2017, 07:04:44 am
Christ almighty, I find myself actively wishing harm on this person... :(
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 28, 2017, 09:22:19 am
Well, since it was only insulting to indigenous people, even lower presumably since his base probably takes pride in being **** to indigenous people.

His base takes pride in being ****, period. "We're tired of political correctness! We're telling it like it is!"

I haven't checked the Breitpravda spin on this incident yet, but I am picturing "Trump honors Native American heroine at Native American event-- and liberals go insane!"

Picturing Steve Doocey and Brian Kilmeade on Fox Friends saying "Why are people so mad? I mean, Pocahontas is a Native American. He was at an event honoring Native Americans.  Why are people so mad at him?"

Next week, watch Trump wear blackface to the NAACP Awards.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 28, 2017, 11:53:27 am
I haven't checked the Breitpravda spin on this incident yet, but I am picturing "Trump honors Native American heroine at Native American event-- and liberals go insane!"

Picturing Steve Doocey and Brian Kilmeade on Fox Friends saying "Why are people so mad? I mean, Pocahontas is a Native American. He was at an event honoring Native Americans.  Why are people so mad at him?"
I was curious about how the right-wing media would handle it.

Fox news (at least their web site) seems to be trying to shift the discussion to Elizabeth Warren (the one Trump was targeting with the Pocahontas comment).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 28, 2017, 12:11:51 pm
I was curious about how the right-wing media would handle it.

Fox news (at least their web site) seems to be trying to shift the discussion to Elizabeth Warren (the one Trump was targeting with the Pocahontas comment).

That's certainly how Silly Sarah had been coached to handle it at the latest press briefing. I began to feel a little motion sickness watching her pivot attempts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 29, 2017, 07:20:40 am
Trump retweets Britain First videos...

https://twitter.com/EsotericCD/status/935840179222347776

Alex Jones' team thinking he went too far.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on November 29, 2017, 07:38:54 am
You know it's a bad move when he loses Alex Jones for chrissake.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 29, 2017, 09:32:54 am
Well, he didn't lose Alex Jones... it's Paul Joseph Watson, who I believe plays "Chester" to Jones's "Spike."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVNHcob3oJg

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 29, 2017, 02:51:50 pm
I see the state visit invitation is still open. Will he have the guts (or stupidity) to accept? It will be interesting to see how they spin the PR disaster that will be.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 30, 2017, 12:47:07 pm
So Rex Tillerson calls Trump a "moron". Now it looks like Tillerson will be fired soon.

Conclusion: telling the truth in the current white house can get you fired.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 30, 2017, 03:00:20 pm
So Rex Tillerson calls Trump a "moron". Now it looks like Tillerson will be fired soon.
Conclusion: telling the truth in the current white house can get you fired.
Kind of mixed feelings about this.

Yes, Tillerson was willing to challenge Trump by having different policy ideals (plus he called him a moron). On the other hand, Tillerson shouldn't have been appointed in the first place (he had no experience as a diplomat or in politics); plus, supposedly he had been planning on making major changes, which would have involved firing many long-time career diplomats (a change many democrats and republicans were wary of.)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 30, 2017, 03:04:37 pm
Kind of mixed feelings about this.

Yes, Tillerson was willing to challenge Trump by having different policy ideals (plus he called him a moron). On the other hand, Tillerson shouldn't have been appointed in the first place (he had no experience as a diplomat or in politics); plus, supposedly he had been planning on making major changes, which would have involved firing many long-time career diplomats (a change many democrats and republicans were wary of.)

I used to work for Exxon/Mobil, and believe me, it was a hell of a lot better run operation than the WH seems to be today these days. I'm quite sure I can understand why Tillerson called Trump a moron, and why he'll be happy to get out of there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 30, 2017, 03:58:16 pm
Kind of mixed feelings about this.

Yes, Tillerson was willing to challenge Trump by having different policy ideals (plus he called him a moron). On the other hand, Tillerson shouldn't have been appointed in the first place (he had no experience as a diplomat or in politics); plus, supposedly he had been planning on making major changes, which would have involved firing many long-time career diplomats (a change many democrats and republicans were wary of.)

Tillerson is a crappy secretary of state - not that he's had any help from Trump. The only problem with dumping him would be if the guy who replaces him is worse - or a Trump lapdog.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 30, 2017, 04:01:17 pm
Tillerson is a crappy secretary of state - not that he's had any help from Trump. The only problem with dumping him would be if the guy who replaces him is worse - or a Trump lapdog.

Why is he crappy to you, because he is smarter than Trump or what?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 30, 2017, 04:02:03 pm
I used to work for Exxon/Mobil, and believe me, it was a hell of a lot better run operation than the WH seems to be today these days.
I'm not doubting that Exxon/Mobile was a well-run company when Tillerson was there. I think the issue was whether the skills related to being a CEO are directly transferable to being Secretary of State. Both jobs have different reporting protocols, and the Secretary of State has to deal with a much broader range of issues than the CEO of an oil company.

Anyone remember when Tillerson was first appointed by Trump? There were concerns that he got the job because he was friendly with Russia (was even awarded the Order of Friendship by Putin) suggesting Trump was getting too close in his relationship with Russia.


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 30, 2017, 04:05:15 pm
Why is he crappy to you, because he is smarter than Trump or what?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/08/31/why-secretary-of-state-rex-tillerson-should-resign/?utm_term=.f7c345a91e60
https://www.vox.com/world/2017/9/20/16330028/rex-tillerson-secretary-state-trump-failure
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 30, 2017, 04:13:48 pm
Re Tillerson...
Why is he crappy to you...
Not sure about SirJohn, but I mentioned one thing earlier... his plan to reorganize the department and fire many long-term diplomats.

I think its really hard to say how good Tillerson actually is. Trump continually undermines him (suggesting Diplomacy with China over North Korea is a waste of time while Tillerson was in the middle of negotiations, calling for sanctions against Iran when Tillerson said they were complying with the recent nuclear deal, etc.) I suspect even the best secretary of state would have troubles functioning under those conditions.
Quote
because he is smarter than Trump or what?
That's a pretty low bar to set.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 30, 2017, 10:42:39 pm
Tillerson was allegedly planning to quit months ago, and rumor was that John Kelly and  James Mattis urged him to stay on.  I subscribe to the theory that Mattis and Kelly are the only thing standing in the way of letting alt-right pandemonium overrun the White House, and I think that they believe that Tillerson is on their side (in terms of preferring stability to Trump-style chaos).

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 01, 2017, 05:51:29 am
Mike Pompeo... the replacement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pompeo#Education,_and_early_career

His background is... uh... intriguing ??
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 01, 2017, 11:33:54 am
Mike Pompeo... the replacement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pompeo#Education,_and_early_career

His background is... uh... intriguing ??

He's a hard liner America first, holy roller type. Trump's kind of guy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 01, 2017, 11:49:53 am
Climbing the ladder rung by rung.
Michael Flynn pleads guilty and cuts a deal with the FBI.

As part of a plea deal, former national security adviser Michael Flynn has admitted that a senior member of the Trump transition team directed him to make contact with Russian officials in December 2016.

So who was higher than him? Trump's son or his son in law?

http://ottawacitizen.com/pmn/news-pmn/newsalert-flynn-pleads-guilty-to-making-false-statements-to-the-fbi/wcm/eb61949a-82fe-431b-b993-dae7c19ae3f4
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on December 01, 2017, 01:39:01 pm
Climbing the ladder rung by rung.
Michael Flynn pleads guilty and cuts a deal with the FBI.

As part of a plea deal, former national security adviser Michael Flynn has admitted that a senior member of the Trump transition team directed him to make contact with Russian officials in December 2016.

So who was higher than him? Trump's son or his son in law?

http://ottawacitizen.com/pmn/news-pmn/newsalert-flynn-pleads-guilty-to-making-false-statements-to-the-fbi/wcm/eb61949a-82fe-431b-b993-dae7c19ae3f4

I think his son in law Kushner has a lot of power. He seems to have his hands in a lot of things. Including very cozy relationship with Israel. When anyone in the Trump admin goes down, Kushner seems to be part of the mix.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 01, 2017, 02:09:11 pm
It looks like whatever power Kushner may have had, it is noticeably waning nowadays.  He's kinda like "nowhere man" lately. The Flynn flip must be making Trump's "bone spurs" paining him bigly.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: gh0sthacked on December 01, 2017, 02:21:41 pm
It looks like whatever power Kushner may have had, it is noticeably waning nowadays.  He's kinda like "nowhere man" lately. The Flynn flip must be making Trump's "bone spurs" paining him bigly.

Maybe I did not pay attention to Obama and Bush and how many people left their admins due to scandals. It would be interesting to compare the numbers and the reasons for each administration.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 01, 2017, 02:59:32 pm
It looks like whatever power Kushner may have had, it is noticeably waning nowadays.  He's kinda like "nowhere man" lately. The Flynn flip must be making Trump's "bone spurs" paining him bigly.

The US media is saying its Kushner. Kushner's interview with the FBI was the other day, before it was announced Flynn flipped. Does anyone not think the FBI asked him about this to see if they could get him to lie about it? So the question will wind up being whether it's Flynn's word against Kushner, or if Flynn has something to back it up, like emails or texts or something. So if they get Kushner will he be willing to go to prison like his dad did, or will he try to find something to keep him out - by ratting on his father in law.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-01/kushner-is-said-to-have-ordered-flynn-to-contact-russia
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 01, 2017, 03:17:02 pm
I suspect Flynn must have solid enough evidence that Mueller wants, hence the deal.  Flynn might get a few months, instead of years, and the path to the WH will be further cleared.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 01, 2017, 05:29:33 pm
Maybe I did not pay attention to Obama and Bush and how many people left their admins due to scandals. It would be interesting to compare the numbers and the reasons for each administration.

(https://pics.me.me/executive-branch-criminal-activities-by-presidentialadministration-years-in-criminal-criminal-23162512.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 01, 2017, 06:46:05 pm
Where did you find that?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 01, 2017, 06:58:20 pm
Where did you find that?

many locations... but is originally sourced from Daily Kos:

Comparing presidential administrations by arrests and convictions --- https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/1/11/1619079/-Comparing-Presidential-Administrations-by-Arrests-and-Convictions-A-Warning-for-Trump-Appointees (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/1/11/1619079/-Comparing-Presidential-Administrations-by-Arrests-and-Convictions-A-Warning-for-Trump-Appointees)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 02, 2017, 11:34:42 am
I checked in on Fox and Breitpravda yesterday to see their reactions.

From Fox the spin seemed to be, basically: Of course Flynn pleaded guilty. After all, Trump did fire him for a reason! He is guilty of the things Trump fired him for.  Trump is not in any danger from this!  OH BY THE WAY if Flynn pleaded guilty to lesser charges in exchange for ratting on others in the Trump team, don't forget that Flynn is a bigly bigly liar. Remember that he lied to the FBI! He could lie again! Do not trust what Flynn says about Trump-Russia! Flynn lies, bigly!

From Breitpravda, the spin was more like:  Kushner did this. Kushner killed Flynn. Kushner is a kike Jew globecuck globalist and he is destroying the MAGA agenda from the inside!  He needs to be sent to the gas chambers incinerated hung fired before he ruins America from inside the White House! Never trust a Jew globalist!

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 02, 2017, 11:41:07 am
Yeah I checked FOX while I was spinning through the news stations yesterday. They put much less time into it than everyone else, and the attitude was that this was no big deal. I saw part of an interview with two alleged lawyers, who basically said Flynn did nothing wrong here, except lie about some of the stuff he did. Real strange he lied, but oh well. He's an Obama guy anyway. Nothing to do with Trump. One literally called it a 'nothingburger'.

There was no mention that the reason he pled to one single charge of lying was to avoid a bunch of other more serious charges his very highly paid lawyer knew they couldn't beat. There was also no mention of the fact the FBI knows very well that Flynn saying one thing and Kushner or Trump saying another was not going to result in a guilty plea against the latter. No suggestion he might have actual evidence and information the FBI thought worth letting him off the hook easily. It was all presented as a big yawn.

People wonder why Trump's base stays loyal. This is why. They get their 'news' from Trump TV. Everything else, all that "MSM" stuff is just liberal fake news. Which means if Trump ever actually is charged and convicted they'll be enraged because FOX will continue to pretend it's all nonsense right up until he gets led off in cuffs and they'll want blood - not from FOX, but from those evil Liberals and the 'swamp' that are attacking their president.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 02, 2017, 11:46:55 am
Meanwhile, while everybody else was focused on Flynn, the Senate approved the tax "reforms" by a 51-49 vote.

When Obama was president, the Republicans couldn't stop talking about the deficit.  Now that they've approved a tax bill that will increase the deficit by over a trillion dollars, Bob Corker is the only Republican senator who still seems to care about the deficit.

Republicans will no doubt be trying to promote the trickle-down theory, that the massive tax cuts for the rich and for large corporations will result in a "revved up economy" that will generate bigly bigly revenue for the government and deliver jobs jobs jobs for all the unemployed rust-belt workers who Trump promised would be back to high-paying careers doing things that machines can do better, faster, and cheaper. 


There has been some amount of speculation that once this tax deal gets done, the Republicans don't actually need Trump anymore and might not care much about preventing him from getting impeached.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 02, 2017, 11:59:41 am
I believe that they have taken the wrong path.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 02, 2017, 12:28:24 pm
I believe that they have taken the wrong path.

On Flynn, or on "tax reform"?

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 02, 2017, 01:02:38 pm
Bottom line here is it looks like Trump just tweeted himself into obstruction of justice. His lawyers must be totally frustrated with their client.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 02, 2017, 01:35:29 pm
Funny. It will be interesting to see how Sarah squirms around this one.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 02, 2017, 03:04:04 pm
I assume this is what you guys are referring to.

Quote
"I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies," Trump tweeted while traveling in New York City for fundraising events.

...

If Trump knew that Flynn had lied to the FBI and then asked Comey to drop the investigation, it could amount to obstruction of justice, according to some legal experts.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/362938-in-apparent-shift-trump-tweets-he-fired-flynn-for-lying-to-fbi

So, Comey had said that Trump pressured him to drop the investigation on Flynn.  If Trump is now saying he knew Flynn lied to the FBI in February, then firing Comey in May for refusing to drop his investigation into Flynn clearly appears to be an attempt to help cover up Flynn's crime.


But this isn't what we're looking for.   Trump has already broken numerous laws while president and could probably already be impeached for some reason or another, but so far none of this stuff is the kind of thing you bring down the president over.   It's like... they set out to investigate Clinton for the Whitewater real estate deal, and the best they could come up with is that he lied under oath about getting a hummer from an intern.   Even if it's true that he committed perjury about getting a hummer, that's just not satisfactory reason to try to bring down a government.  I feel it's the same with Trump.  Impeaching him for firing Comey (or for breaking the emoluments clause, or other stuff like that) might be technically possible, but I don't think it's satisfactory.


I think we all suspect that Trump fired Comey because he was afraid of what Comey might find while looking into Flynn's business.   He was worried that Comey would eventually find the real goods.   Mueller will eventually get to the real goods, and Trump's attempts to block the investigation will be considered an aggravating factor once the cards are all on the table.    But we have to wait for the real goods to be exposed before impeachment begins.  It might not be far off.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 02, 2017, 03:45:52 pm
On Flynn, or on "tax reform"?

 -k

This whole year has a feeling of finality to it.  I think that the worst weaknesses of democracy have been exploited.  I don't know if they will recover.

Canada has to go a different way and strive for centrism and compromise.  But also excellence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 02, 2017, 03:56:16 pm
Donny T is so toast.  The FBI wolves are circling the wagon and a wheel just fell apart.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 02, 2017, 07:17:55 pm
Tweets mean nothing....    Trump can simply say someone else wrote it, couldn’t he?   “So-and-so uses my account and tweeted that, not me”.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 02, 2017, 08:09:55 pm
I think it has already been stated by the White House that his tweets are the POTUS speaking but I'm sure they would have no qualms about selectively backtracking on that. How many times have they said that he really didn't say something that he clearly did and is on video.

How the courts might handle it would be interesting, particularly since he has gone out of his way to insult and demean them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 03, 2017, 11:08:05 am
His lawyer has already claimed responsibility for the tweet and says he was mistaken. Apparently Donald doesn't actually write or read his own tweets and his lawyer doesn't know the past tense of "plead" is "pleaded", not "pled".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 03, 2017, 11:39:35 am
His lawyer has already claimed responsibility for the tweet and says he was mistaken.

And this lawyer wrote "I" fired Flynn while using the President's twitter account.  This seems totally credible.


Apparently Donald doesn't actually write or read his own tweets and his lawyer doesn't know the past tense of "plead" is "pleaded", not "pled".

That lawyer is probably a graduate of the same university as the doctor who wrote that Trump is the healthiest candidate in history and tests positive for everything.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 03, 2017, 01:26:26 pm
Ha!   :o  I called it....   “my lawyer wrote that”.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 03, 2017, 03:48:30 pm
I find it weird how so many in the media are taking the lawyer's claim that he wrote the tweet at face value. I think even if I were a Trump supporter, I can't imagine thinking there's even a possibility Trump didn't write that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 03, 2017, 05:44:02 pm
I find it weird how so many in the media are taking the lawyer's claim that he wrote the tweet at face value. I think even if I were a Trump supporter, I can't imagine thinking there's even a possibility Trump didn't write that.

When a tweet from the Trump twitter account starts off their tweet saying "I fired Flynn because..." you have every reason to expect it's Trump speaking, and no reason at all to expect it's anybody other than Trump.  Trump's lawyer didn't fire Flynn. Trump's lawyer isn't the "I" in @realDonaldJTrump  ...and anybody who buys this line of bullshit is just trying to do the mental gymnastics required to believe that this lying sack of crap didn't just incriminate himself.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 04, 2017, 06:24:59 am
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-lawyer-says-president-knew-flynn-had-given-fbi-the-same-account-he-gave-to-vice-president/2017/12/03/5c59a620-d849-11e7-a841-2066faf731ef_story.html?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.239516054305

Now Dowd says the Tweet from Trump is inaccurate ?

One of the best reasons not to lie is that it's hard to keep everything straight when you get caught.  I am firmly convinced that it doesn't matter though.  The effective royalty of American society has found a way to use patriotism, fear, and pride to keep the masses down through manipulation of the system (democracy and the courts).  If I were American, I would start making plans to move to Canada.

It's still an ok place to visit (although I'll be visiting less) but the future is bleak. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on December 04, 2017, 10:28:54 am
If I were American, I would start making plans to move to Canada.

Could you not do that until after I've bought my retirement home?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 04, 2017, 11:50:05 am
Meanwhile, while everybody else was focused on Flynn, the Senate approved the tax "reforms" by a 51-49 vote.

When Obama was president, the Republicans couldn't stop talking about the deficit.  Now that they've approved a tax bill that will increase the deficit by over a trillion dollars, Bob Corker is the only Republican senator who still seems to care about the deficit.

This is nothing but a wholesale transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class to the rich. Remember how Trump was going to be the big friend of the middle class and the big enemy of Wall Street? Well, Wall Street is popping champagne corks. The big banks have never had such a great year as they have under Trump. Nothing makes it clearer to those with open eyes who the Republicans owe their allegiance to. It's not the rural white rednecks o the religious right, and it's not the middle class. It's the wealthy who pour hundreds of millions into their campaign coffers along with (wink wink nudge nudge) assurances that when they leave political office they'll get their real rewards. This is going to be extremely damaging to a whole host of people - all of them poor and middle class - and great for the filthy rich like Trump. This is an anti-conservative and anti-Christian budget, and no one who voted for it can claim to be either of those things.

Quote
Republicans will no doubt be trying to promote the trickle-down theory, that the massive tax cuts for the rich and for large corporations will result in a "revved up economy" that will generate bigly bigly revenue for the government and deliver jobs jobs jobs for all the unemployed rust-belt workers who Trump promised would be back to high-paying careers doing things that machines can do better, faster, and cheaper. 

Trickle down didn't work when Reagan tried it and it won't work now. Almost no economists think this will have much, if any impact on the economy. The corporations, already awash in record profits, will not use their lowered taxation to hire more people. Why should they? They'll use it for stock buybacks and increased dividends. And that primarily helps the wealthy, who own most stock.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 04, 2017, 12:01:20 pm
John Ibbitson puts it quite well.

As an act of political vandalism, nothing that Donald Trump has said or tweeted matches what Republican senators achieved on the weekend.

In the dead of night, with no real debate, with most senators not knowing what, exactly, they were voting on, with amendments so rushed that they existed only as illegible handwritten scrawls on the margins of the text, the Republican caucus pushed through massive tax reforms that slash taxes on the wealthiest Americans. This at the cost of more than a trillion dollars added to the national debt, along with cuts to funding for health care and education.

Why did the senators do this thing? Because they were being blackmailed by a few powerful oligarchs, the very people who will benefit most from the tax cuts. Between kowtowing to those oligarchs and the President's brow-beating of the press, it's getting harder and harder to tell the difference between the United States and Russia.



https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/us-tax-reforms-expose-a-republican-party-held-hostage-by-a-few-oligarchs/article37174384/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 04, 2017, 12:34:05 pm
John Ibbitson puts it quite well.

In the dead of night, with no real debate, with most senators not knowing what, exactly, they were voting on, with amendments so rushed that they existed only as illegible handwritten scrawls on the margins of the text, the Republican caucus pushed through massive tax reforms that slash taxes on the wealthiest Americans. This at the cost of more than a trillion dollars added to the national debt, along with cuts to funding for health care and education.

Why did the senators do this thing? Because they were being blackmailed by a few powerful oligarchs, the very people who will benefit most from the tax cuts.
I have a different theory.

The tax bill is a huge mess. In the short term some lower/middle class people will see a small tax cut, but in the long term:
- The deficit increases and will have to be dealt with
- Many of the tax cuts are scheduled to expire so even those with a tax cut now will see it eventually go away
- This may eventually trigger cuts to things like social security and medicare

I think what's happening is that the republicans see themselves going down to defeat in the next few years...Between having a very unpopular republican president hanging around like a millstone around their necks, and changing demographics (i.e. more minority voters), Republican prospects were starting to look dim. So, what do they do? Pass a horrible tax bill that will temporarily look good, but will cause massive problems for the Democrats the next time they're expected to gain power. Then, they can start claiming "See? we gave Tax cuts, Democrats gave tax increases".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 04, 2017, 12:45:04 pm


It's still an ok place to visit (although I'll be visiting less) but the future is bleak.

You aren't the only one. From FOX News even.

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2017/09/08/u-s-tourism-declining-as-new-report-confirms-predicted-trump-slump.html (http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2017/09/08/u-s-tourism-declining-as-new-report-confirms-predicted-trump-slump.html)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 05, 2017, 05:50:39 am
https://www.google.ca/search?q=%22trump+slump%22+tourism&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6ten45vLXAhWC5IMKHR4-Di44FBD8BQgKKAE&biw=1155&bih=665

I have heard this debated, but a search of news says tourism down 4 percent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 06, 2017, 10:45:35 am
OOps...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-05/trump-s-stock-forecast-fails-after-senate-tax-bill-s-bombshell
Under current law, the corporate AMT (alternative minimum tax) serves as a kind of insurance policy designed to prevent companies from using various breaks to pay too little tax. But because the Senate bill would also cut the regular corporate income tax rate to the same 20 percent level, the AMT would hit virtually every U.S. company, according to experts.
...
As a consequence, planned tax breaks in the Senate bill related to intellectual property and to spending on new equipment -- along with the existing research and development tax credit -- would lose their effect.


So, Republicans put together a tax bill (with Trump on the sidelines as a cheerleader), rushed it through the Senate so quickly that the actual documents featured illegible hand-written notes in the margin so that the senators didn't even know what they were voting on, and in their haste left a major flaw in place. (Well, one of many I'm sure.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 06, 2017, 09:04:42 pm
Too bad Donald, a Groper in Chief doesn't make the cover. It's the Groper Outers instead.

http://time.com/time-person-of-the-year-2017-silence-breakers/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 07, 2017, 09:25:40 am
Too bad Donald, a Groper in Chief doesn't make the cover. It's the Groper Outers instead.

http://time.com/time-person-of-the-year-2017-silence-breakers/

You people are annoying me. Just like Time did.
Time has stressed over and over again through the years that this is NOT intended as an honor of any kind. It is supposed to be a reflection of who or what was most newsworthy for good or ill during the year. Instead they've turned it into virtue signalling.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 07, 2017, 11:52:47 am
You people are annoying me. Just like Time did.
Time has stressed over and over again through the years that this is NOT intended as an honor of any kind. It is supposed to be a reflection of who or what was most newsworthy for good or ill during the year. Instead they've turned it into virtue signalling.

You and I know it but that's not the way Donald looks at it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 07, 2017, 06:40:24 pm
You and I know it but that's not the way Donald looks at it.

Trump is a moron. The point is that Time is ignoring journalistic integrity by putting this ridiculous thing up and trying to claim it was the most newsworthy and influential in the year.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on December 07, 2017, 07:11:08 pm
Trump is a moron. The point is that Time is ignoring journalistic integrity by putting this ridiculous thing up and trying to claim it was the most newsworthy and influential in the year.
Actually, I would agree with time that the mass outing of serial predators in the media is extremely newsworthy even if some of the accusations are ridiculously absurd. I am not sure what else you think is more worthy. Trump? North Korea? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 07, 2017, 07:41:55 pm
Trump is a moron. The point is that Time is ignoring journalistic integrity by putting this ridiculous thing up and trying to claim it was the most newsworthy and influential in the year.

Considering the number this has and continues to affect, I'm not sure I would agree with that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 07, 2017, 07:46:20 pm
Trump is a moron. The point is that Time is ignoring journalistic integrity by putting this ridiculous thing up and trying to claim it was the most newsworthy and influential in the year.

Trump being a moron has actually gotten kind of boring. Outing of sexual abusers is relatively new, and just as newsworthy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 08, 2017, 05:47:01 am
Trump being a moron has actually gotten kind of boring. Outing of sexual abusers is relatively new, and just as newsworthy.

It's changing my attitude towards democracy again, somehow.  I think that there are lots of forces that naturally work against democracy, one being the framing of the democratic narrative to ensure that the 'little people' know their place.  The death of intelligent discourse in the face of:

- Healthcare being removed from the poorest Americans
- The failed 'trickle down' theory being pushed to its extreme
- Incompetence and evil by Republicans

...shows that the end state of democracy is anti-democracy, or some kind of corrupt tribalism and cronyism. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 08, 2017, 09:21:34 am
Yay, quote function works.

CNN International and BBC World Service are different animals from their domestic kin. If people see their reporting and it is backed up by their own and other media sources, Trump can scream fake all he wants but the rest of the world won't be buying it. They don't have to be biased, all they need are facts.

Very true about them being different animals from their domestic kin. While I don't travel for a living anymore, those two were my go to's for news when I was in other parts of the world. FOX does not have an equivalent to either of them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on December 08, 2017, 10:23:43 am
There was a pretty interesting passage from a book posted on Reddit. The book came out following WWII and the passage attempts to describe why there was so little resistance to the Nazis. With the atrocities that they were committing, you would think there would be mass protests or some kind of organized resistance to what they were doing. This passage explains how insidious Hitler's rise to power was and why resistance never happened, despite the very clear atrocities being committed. I think it's worth reflecting upon this lesson of the past:

"...Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don't want to act, or even talk, alone; you don't want to 'go out of your way to make trouble.' Why not?-Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty. Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, 'everyone' is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there would be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, 'It's not so bad' or 'You're seeing things' or 'You're an alarmist.'

And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can't prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don't know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have....
But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That's the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked-if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in '43 had come immediately after the 'German Firm' stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in '33. But of course this isn't the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.

And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying 'Jewish swine,' collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in-your nation, your people-is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way."

-Milton Mayer, They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-1945 (1955)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on December 08, 2017, 10:55:12 am
There was a pretty interesting passage from a book posted on Reddit. The book came out following WWII and the passage attempts to describe why there was so little resistance to the Nazis. With the atrocities that they were committing, you would think there would be mass protests or some kind of organized resistance to what they were doing. This passage explains how insidious Hitler's rise to power was and why resistance never happened, despite the very clear atrocities being committed. I think it's worth reflecting upon this lesson of the past:

"...Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don't want to act, or even talk, alone; you don't want to 'go out of your way to make trouble.' Why not?-Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty. Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, 'everyone' is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there would be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, 'It's not so bad' or 'You're seeing things' or 'You're an alarmist.'

And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can't prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don't know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have....
But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That's the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked-if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in '43 had come immediately after the 'German Firm' stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in '33. But of course this isn't the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.

And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying 'Jewish swine,' collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in-your nation, your people-is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way."

-Milton Mayer, They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-1945 (1955)

I think the fact that Hitler was willing to ship anyone who disagreed with him off to Dachau, or just have the Gestapo bump them off helped stifle opposition.  And then, as is often the case when one is talking about an identifiable group whose views are not all in agreement, the actual numbers come into question.  I would be willing to bet that there were a lot of Germans who knew and deliberately turned a blind eye. 

I would have to go with "alarmist" too, with regards to anyone who sees Auschwitz in Alabama, regardless of the Roy Moore debacle.

When they change the rules so they can't vote Trump out, I'll worry.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 08, 2017, 11:46:29 am

I would have to go with "alarmist" too, with regards to anyone who sees Auschwitz in Alabama, regardless of the Roy Moore debacle.



I tend to agree but you can't deny that a reactionary, intolerant element is controlling much of government in the US.



Quote
When they change the rules so they can't vote Trump out, I'll worry.

At that point it could be too late to worry.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on December 08, 2017, 11:51:26 am
I tend to agree but you can't deny that a reactionary, intolerant element is controlling much of government in the US.

At that point it could be too late to worry.

I don't deny it.  The current state of US politics is astonishing, as well as extremely entertaining.  But any notion that we are heading to the ovens will still have to come a little more clearly into focus before I start printing leaflets.

The point to worry would be the initial tendering of the idea.  I don't see that yet.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 08, 2017, 11:59:26 am
Actually, I would agree with time that the mass outing of serial predators in the media is extremely newsworthy even if some of the accusations are ridiculously absurd. I am not sure what else you think is more worthy. Trump? North Korea?

Obviously Trump has been the center of the news for the entirety of the year. Do you not watch the news? Do you not read newspapers? Do you simply have no exposure to the major news organizations at all?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 08, 2017, 12:00:07 pm
Considering the number this has and continues to affect, I'm not sure I would agree with that.

Yeah, like, dozens and dozens of people! Thats HUUUUGe influence!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 08, 2017, 12:34:45 pm
Yeah, like, dozens and dozens of people! Thats HUUUUGe influence!

Not just people, famous and powerful people>
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on December 08, 2017, 12:40:55 pm
Not just people, famous and powerful people>

Yeah, but none of them moved us closer to nuclear war than we have been since the Cuban Missile crisis.

Let's face it.  Time was both afraid that making Trump person of the year would be seen as an endorsement by some, and hoping that not doing so would be seen as a snub by some.

It's an Oscar now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on December 08, 2017, 12:47:20 pm
I think the fact that Hitler was willing to ship anyone who disagreed with him off to Dachau, or just have the Gestapo bump them off helped stifle opposition.  And then, as is often the case when one is talking about an identifiable group whose views are not all in agreement, the actual numbers come into question.  I would be willing to bet that there were a lot of Germans who knew and deliberately turned a blind eye. 

I would have to go with "alarmist" too, with regards to anyone who sees Auschwitz in Alabama, regardless of the Roy Moore debacle.

When they change the rules so they can't vote Trump out, I'll worry.

Why do you think the small steps you are now disregarding aren't leading to that ultimate end?  But what if its the party, led by a very right-wing Conservative Christian that can't be voted out, and not Trump in particular?  What if Trump is just part of the set-up for that end.  He alienates many US allies, demonizes Muslims, supports alt-righr, creates war in the Middle East and Asia, and is then dumped in some way ... Only to have Pence take over.  By this time, so much chaos has been endured, but Pence seems a calmer and safer guy so why rock the boat by electing someone different when we need consistency to get us through both domestic and international unrest and conflict?

This was the rational used by many in Egypt during the last election campaign and people bought into it.  They were tired of revolution and chaos, and Sisi seemed a steady hand in comparison to the alternatives.  So they effectively elected another, younger Mubarek with a slightly progressive face.

And the attainment of a fundamental Christian United States is the goal of some groups.  Will they succeed?  I doubt it, because I think there are still many people who will stand against it, but ..... Pence IS VP and Trump IS a trainwreck and he's done very well in providing a common enemy in Muslims and Mexicans, as well as sowing discord around the world, perhaps making America look 'safe' by comparison.

https://theintercept.com/2016/11/15/mike-pence-will-be-the-most-powerful-christian-supremacist-in-us-history?menu=1

https://www.salon.com/2015/07/31/secrets_of_the_extreme_religious_right_inside_the_frightening_world_of_christian_reconstructionism/

https://www.autostraddle.com/i-was-trained-for-the-culture-wars-in-home-school-awaiting-someone-like-mike-pence-as-a-messiah-367057/



 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 08, 2017, 12:51:25 pm
Trump is on his way to campaign for Moore tonight and his tweets this am included "VOTE FOR ROY MOORE" so I guess that removes any doubt about his support. Think of the fun they'll have at a WH dinner telling "girly" stories.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on December 08, 2017, 12:58:18 pm
Why do you think the small steps you are now disregarding aren't leading to that ultimate end? 

Why does anyone think anything?  Why do you think they are?

I'm not unfamiliar with what happened in Europe between the wars, having grown up with an amateur historian of the Third Reich for a father and having inherited his fascination for the era.  (The first picture book I remember seeing as a kid was "The Yellow Star")

I would never say that what is happening in the US politically right now is normal, but I would have to see a lot more before I started worrying about another Hitler.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 08, 2017, 01:03:19 pm

Let's face it.  Time was both afraid that making Trump person of the year would be seen as an endorsement by some...
Why did they give it to him in 2016 then?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on December 08, 2017, 01:06:39 pm
Why did they give it to him in 2016 then?

Because he deserved it?  Why didn't they give it to him in 2017?  He certainly deserved it. 

Is there some rule that says two years in a row is not allowed?  That would explain it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on December 08, 2017, 01:45:47 pm
Not just people, famous and powerful people>
Not just famous and powerful people, but rich, white women!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on December 08, 2017, 01:47:03 pm
the attainment of a fundamental Christian United States is the goal of some groups.
We call them YeeHawdists.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on December 08, 2017, 01:48:47 pm
Not just famous and powerful people, but rich, white women!

Some would certainly consider that more newsworthy.  I'm not keen on the idea myself.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 08, 2017, 04:27:59 pm
Because he deserved it?  Why didn't they give it to him in 2017?  He certainly deserved it. 

Is there some rule that says two years in a row is not allowed?  That would explain it.
But was it an endorsement in 2016 when he got it? I don't see why they would give it to him last year, but not this year because this year it would seem like an endorsement.
I think they gave it to the silence breakers because that story most represents 2017 and it also has everything to do with Trump, so it's not like they're ignoring him with that choice.
They could have also given it to the resistance, but I think they made the right choice.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 08, 2017, 04:32:44 pm
I think they gave it to the silence breakers because that story most represents 2017 and it also has everything to do with Trump, so it's not like they're ignoring him with that choice.

Oh come on! This is a story which broke in October, and even then it's been overshadowed by Trump's ongoing fights with North Korea, his efforts at repealing Obamacare and his tax 'reform', not to mention the Russia investigation, the ongoing revelations about how many of his staff are as honest as him and all the stupid things he tweets out. And that's just in the last couple of months! Have you forgotten that he was sworn in in January? Before "the largest crowd in history"? Even though there was HUGE illegal voting by Mexican illegals? Forgotten he fired the FBI director? Forgotten all the other musical chairs in the white house?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 09, 2017, 05:35:35 pm
Actually it started with Gretchen Carlson and Roger Ailes in 2016 but hit warp speed this year.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on December 09, 2017, 07:48:24 pm
I think it's great.  Maybe next time a 16-year-old is assaulted by her peer, her teacher, her uncle, her boss - she'll know it's ok to say something.   That is important, very important.  More important than Trump and demented behavior.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 10, 2017, 08:32:28 am
It's the biggest story because 1/2 of the population has had to deal with this without due acknowledgment in popular forums.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on December 10, 2017, 10:03:24 am
It's the biggest story because 1/2 of the population has had to deal with this without due acknowledgment in popular forums.

Popular?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 10, 2017, 11:10:45 am
Popular?

(explanation)  Women in those situations weren't acknowledged.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 10, 2017, 11:20:56 am
We call them YeeHawdists.

Y'all Qaeda!

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on December 10, 2017, 11:22:01 am
(explanation)  Women in those situations weren't acknowledged.

Popular forums?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 10, 2017, 11:33:07 am
Popular forums?

Yep. There was a forum before this one came along.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on December 10, 2017, 11:36:29 am
Yep. There was a forum before this one came along.

Yeah, but I wouldn't call either of them popular...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 10, 2017, 11:45:55 am
Yeah, but I wouldn't call either of them popular...

Well then perhaps you were a tad out of touch.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on December 10, 2017, 11:48:09 am
Well then perhaps you were a tad out of touch.

Nah.  The Beatles, now they were popular. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 10, 2017, 01:23:46 pm
This is nothing but a wholesale transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class to the rich. Remember how Trump was going to be the big friend of the middle class and the big enemy of Wall Street? Well, Wall Street is popping champagne corks. The big banks have never had such a great year as they have under Trump. Nothing makes it clearer to those with open eyes who the Republicans owe their allegiance to. It's not the rural white rednecks o the religious right, and it's not the middle class. It's the wealthy who pour hundreds of millions into their campaign coffers along with (wink wink nudge nudge) assurances that when they leave political office they'll get their real rewards. This is going to be extremely damaging to a whole host of people - all of them poor and middle class - and great for the filthy rich like Trump. This is an anti-conservative and anti-Christian budget, and no one who voted for it can claim to be either of those things.

The sheer elitism was summed up by Chuck Grassley who defended axing the estate tax by saying:
Quote
“I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing,” Grassley told reporters last week. “As opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies.”
http://prospect.org/article/booze-women-and-movies-chuck-grassley-couldn%E2%80%99t-be-more-wrong-about-taxpayers

For Canadians that should evoke memories of an election about 11 years ago when someone ridiculed the idea of reducing the GST because it would just save people a few bucks and "people would waste it on beer and popcorn".

Senator Grassley seems to think that the rich deserve tax breaks because they're wise with money and will invest it to create jobs, while people who aren't wealthy could be wealthy if they just saved their money.

In an age when a large portion of working people are surviving paycheck to paycheck, the notion that the working poor are just wasting their money on frivolous things smacks of Marie Antoinette "then let them eat cake" elitism.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 17, 2017, 08:46:23 am
Merry Crisis.  Happy New Fear.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 17, 2017, 11:50:09 am
Merry Crisis.  Happy New Fear.

What'd he do this time?  Is this in reference to the rumors that he's going to shut down the Mueller probe?


I believe that several Republican senators and some Republican congressmen have publicly stated that the Russia investigation must not and can not be shut down. If there were 24 brave souls in the House of Representatives and 2 in the Senate willing to defy party lines, could they prevent Trump from doing this?

I think the process for stopping the Russia probe is that Deputy Attorney General Ross Rosenthal (who is in charge of the Russia probe because Jeff Sessions recused himself) would have to be the one to fire Mueller. And if he refused, Trump would have Sessions fire Rosenthal and appoint a new Deputy AG. But since Sessions recused himself from the Russia probe, I'm not sure he can fire Rosenthal for refusing to fire Mueller. So maybe Trump would have to remove Sessions from the post of Attorney General and then appoint somebody who would then fire Mueller.  But I think a new Attorney General would have to be confirmed by the Senate, and if a few of Trump's Republican critics, like Jeff Flake and Bob Corker (and maybe McCain, Graham, Collins, and Murkowski) weren't willing to support a puppet as the new AG... would the Mueller probe just continue apace?  It's all rather complicated...


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 17, 2017, 11:51:35 am
What'd he do this time?  Is this in reference to the rumors that he's going to shut down the Mueller probe?

No.  Just wishes for the season.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 18, 2017, 10:46:43 pm
One thing he's done "this time" is his original tweet this AM regarding today's Washington  essentially ignoring the victims in favor of trying to flog his infrastructure spending bill. I guess somebody caught this and told him to get his little fingers going and send out condolences in a later tweet. He's such a doofus.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 19, 2017, 01:40:10 am
One of Trump's nominees for a judge position got absolutely crushed in a hearing that went viral when the video clip was posted.  One of the senators, John Kennedy (Republican, Louisiana) asked one of the nominees, Matthew Petersen, a number of legal questions, all of which left Petersen speechless. Petersen is an experienced lawyer, but isn't a trial lawyer and has no courtroom experience, as Kennedy illustrated.  Petersen has now withdrawn.

If you watch the video, Kennedy wasn't mean about it but he definitely made his point. I actually felt badly for poor Mr Petersen, sitting there completely helpless as he struggled to find any answers with everybody just watching silently.  It was quite painful to watch.  Imagine you're back in highschool and the teacher is calling on you in front of the whole class and you have no idea what the answer is, and everybody is snickering... multiply that feeling by a million, and that's probably how Matthew Petersen felt.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 19, 2017, 01:53:30 am
One of Trump's nominees for a judge position got absolutely crushed in a hearing that went viral when the video clip was posted.  One of the senators, John Kennedy (Republican, Louisiana) asked one of the nominees, Matthew Petersen, a number of legal questions, all of which left Petersen speechless. Petersen is an experienced lawyer, but isn't a trial lawyer and has no courtroom experience, as Kennedy illustrated.  Petersen has now withdrawn.

If you watch the video, Kennedy wasn't mean about it but he definitely made his point. I actually felt badly for poor Mr Petersen, sitting there completely helpless as he struggled to find any answers with everybody just watching silently.  It was quite painful to watch.  Imagine you're back in highschool and the teacher is calling on you in front of the whole class and you have no idea what the answer is, and everybody is snickering... multiply that feeling by a million, and that's probably how Matthew Petersen felt.


 -k

Talk about getting the rug pulled out from under you, I certainly felt a pang of pity for Mr. Petersen. I haven't bothered to try and track down just what was the purpose of his being selected as a possible appointee, I just wrote it off as yet another bizarre episode in the Trump story. I'm sure there will be more.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 19, 2017, 05:42:44 am
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo

Weirdly, the Trump fell almost one point in approval then recovered in the last week.  Still showing low numbers though.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 19, 2017, 09:20:08 am
Talk about getting the rug pulled out from under you, I certainly felt a pang of pity for Mr. Petersen. I haven't bothered to try and track down just what was the purpose of his being selected as a possible appointee, I just wrote it off as yet another bizarre episode in the Trump story. I'm sure there will be more.

I don’t have any sympathy for him, he was just an opportunist looking for a cushy lifetime position. What on earth made him think he was qualified to be a trial judge? His incompetence could have caused a lot of injustice and suffering if he had succeeded.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 19, 2017, 10:02:28 am
One of Trump's nominees for a judge position got absolutely crushed in a hearing that went viral when the video clip was posted.  One of the senators, John Kennedy (Republican, Louisiana) asked one of the nominees, Matthew Petersen, a number of legal questions, all of which left Petersen speechless. Petersen is an experienced lawyer, but isn't a trial lawyer and has no courtroom experience, as Kennedy illustrated.  Petersen has now withdrawn.

At the risk of giving credit to a troll but for the purposes of context it was pointed out on that other site that our recently departed chief of the supreme court had little courtroom experience to speak of when she was first named a judge either. She practiced law for all of five years, then went on to academia for seven years before becoming a judge.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on December 19, 2017, 10:16:47 am
Are you saying that she couldn't have answered those same basic questions?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 19, 2017, 10:34:20 am
At the risk of giving credit to a troll but for the purposes of context it was pointed out on that other site that our recently departed chief of the supreme court had little courtroom experience to speak of when she was first named a judge either. She practiced law for all of five years, then went on to academia for seven years before becoming a judge.

Ummmm.....    you missed the part where McLachlin was a judge for 9 years before being appointed to the Supreme Court. 

But don’t let facts get in the way of your cool story......    ::)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on December 19, 2017, 10:43:41 am
He also doesn’t seem to realize that even most trial lawyers don’t have the qualifications to teach law in academia. You need a doctorate, as opposed to a bachelors in law. The vast majority of lawyers don’t possess that kind of law degree or education.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 19, 2017, 10:48:08 am
Ummmm.....    you missed the part where McLachlin was a judge for 9 years before being appointed to the Supreme Court. 

But don’t let facts get in the way of your cool story......    ::)

Uhm, you missed the part where I was talking about her first appointment as a judge - just as this would have been this guy's first appointment as a judge. He wasn't nominated to the supreme court after all.

But don't let thought get in the way of your sneering.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 19, 2017, 10:49:20 am
Are you saying that she couldn't have answered those same basic questions?

The questions I saw put to this guy centered around whether he had tried cases in various types of courts. He said no to each of them.
I don't know how much if ANY courtroom experience McLachlin had in her five years as a lawyer.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 19, 2017, 10:50:52 am
He also doesn’t seem to realize that even most trial lawyers don’t have the qualifications to teach law in academia. You need a doctorate, as opposed to a bachelors in law. The vast majority of lawyers don’t possess that kind of law degree or education.

Yeah, her primary education was in philosophy.

Now I'm not saying philosophy is a worthless subject, but let's say it's rarely described as practical, and I think practicality would be a much sought after trait in a judge.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on December 19, 2017, 10:52:46 am
 The LSAT is basically a philosophy exam, ie, logic test.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 19, 2017, 11:01:19 am
The LSAT is basically a philosophy exam, ie, logic test.

So presumably all lawyers having passed, qualify as philosophers, huh?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 19, 2017, 11:51:15 am
So presumably all lawyers having passed, qualify as philosophers, huh?

please apply your profound insights to other disciplines/majors

(https://i.imgur.com/X62cDD0.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 19, 2017, 02:29:34 pm
please apply your profound insights to other disciplines/majors


You seem to have a fondness for pretty graphics which are essentially meaningless.

Please illustrate for us why philosophers doing well on the law school test matters to the discussion of how much courtroom experience a lawyer ought to have before becoming a judge.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 19, 2017, 03:05:30 pm
Comparing a Trump nominee who couldn’t even answer basic questions of law with a law professor who taught law is completely asinine.  If anyone thinks McLachlin’s resume when she was nominated a judge is similar to this guy’s, they’re a simpleton, or a partisan hack.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 19, 2017, 03:22:26 pm
She practiced law for 6 years and taught it for 7. I think that pretty much trump's Trump's appointee.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 19, 2017, 04:41:32 pm
Comparing a Trump nominee who couldn’t even answer basic questions of law with a law professor who taught law is completely asinine.  If anyone thinks McLachlin’s resume when she was nominated a judge is similar to this guy’s, they’re a simpleton, or a partisan hack.

I was just providing some context. As to Peterson, his education and background seem remarkably similar to hers. He practiced direct law for a few years, then moved into an appointment where he was working in a specialized capacity. He never went before a court but I don't know that she ever did either.

Petersen graduated magna cum laude with a B.A. in philosophy from Brigham Young University in 1996. He also received an associate degree with high honors from Utah Valley State College in 1993. Petersen received his Juris Doctor in 1999 from the University of Virginia School of Law, where he was a member of the Virginia Law Review. From 1999 to 2002, he practiced election and campaign finance law at Wiley Rein LLP in Washington, D.C.
From 2002 to 2005, Petersen served as counsel to the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on House Administration. During his tenure, he was involved in the crafting of the Help America Vote Act of 2002 (HAVA) and the House–Senate negotiations that culminated in HAVA's passage. From 2005 to 2008, he served as Republican chief counsel to the United States Senate Committee on Rules and Administration.
Petersen was nominated to the Federal Election Commission by President George W. Bush on June 12, 2008, and unanimously confirmed by the United States Senate on June 24, 2008. He served as Chairman in 2010 and 2016.[3][4]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_S._Petersen
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on December 19, 2017, 05:57:19 pm
You seem to have a fondness for pretty graphics which are essentially meaningless.

Please illustrate for us why philosophers doing well on the law school test matters to the discussion of how much courtroom experience a lawyer ought to have before becoming a judge.
Youre the one who derisively mentioned her philosophy degree.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 19, 2017, 06:20:23 pm
Youre the one who derisively mentioned her philosophy degree.

In response to you or someone talking about her marvelous education.

You realize the general word we use for people with a masters of philosophy is barrista, right?

Anyway, don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting this guy would have made a great judge.
Then again, hard to imagine he'd do worse than McLachlan.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 19, 2017, 08:05:53 pm
In response to you or someone talking about her marvelous education.

You realize the general word we use for people with a masters of philosophy is barrista, right?

Anyway, don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting this guy would have made a great judge.
Then again, hard to imagine he'd do worse than McLachlan.

Hard to imagine? Apparently you didn't listen to the interview very closely. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on December 19, 2017, 08:22:39 pm
In response to you or someone talking about her marvelous education.

You realize the general word we use for people with a masters of philosophy is barrista, right?

Anyway, don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting this guy would have made a great judge.
Then again, hard to imagine he'd do worse than McLachlan.
You realize that some of the most successful LSAT scores come from philosophy majors, right? I mean Waldo just posted it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 20, 2017, 05:10:46 am
Thread drift.

https://twitter.com/outline/status/942912957587050496

Trump in the Hall of Presidents
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 20, 2017, 09:25:18 am
The questions I saw put to this guy centered around whether he had tried cases in various types of courts. He said no to each of them.
I don't know how much if ANY courtroom experience McLachlin had in her five years as a lawyer.

He was asked questions pertaining to courtroom procedures and admissibility of evidence.  This wasn't a case of a guy being ambushed with "gotcha" type questions, this was a guy demonstrating that he didn't have basic knowledge expected for the position.

He was, in all likelihood, a buddy or friend or former classmate of a guy in the Justice Department who put him on the list. 


Yeah, her primary education was in philosophy.

Now I'm not saying philosophy is a worthless subject, but let's say it's rarely described as practical, and I think practicality would be a much sought after trait in a judge.

So instead of people who study ideas like abstract concepts like logic, you'd prefer judges who have practical backgrounds, like taxi drivers and auto mechanics?

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 20, 2017, 12:20:51 pm
So instead of people who study ideas like abstract concepts like logic, you'd prefer judges who have practical backgrounds, like taxi drivers and auto mechanics?

No, I'd prefer they be really smart and know the law really well.

I know that's an archaic belief, but I guess I'm just old fashioned. I think McLachlan was a disaster as a judge all through her career. She advocated strongly for judicial activism, for judges to overrule parliament any time they thought they knew better, and without regard to what the law actually said. I guess if you're a philosopher you can stretch the meaning and intent of words to cover just about anything you want.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 20, 2017, 12:53:25 pm
No, I'd prefer they be really smart and know the law really well.

I know that's an archaic belief, but I guess I'm just old fashioned. I think McLachlan was a disaster as a judge all through her career. She advocated strongly for judicial activism, for judges to overrule parliament any time they thought they knew better, and without regard to what the law actually said. I guess if you're a philosopher you can stretch the meaning and intent of words to cover just about anything you want.

I suspect that having practiced and taught law that McLaughlin probably knows a bit more about law than your auto mechanic. You should also know that the SCC has the right strike down or amend a law when it violates the charter, and that has to be agreed to by a majority, not just the chief justice.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 20, 2017, 02:32:35 pm
I suspect that having practiced and taught law that McLaughlin probably knows a bit more about law than your auto mechanic. You should also know that the SCC has the right strike down or amend a law when it violates the charter, and that has to be agreed to by a majority, not just the chief justice.

I never mentioned any auto mechanics so you can stuff your straw man.
The problem with the SCC is when you get activist judges who are also ideologues, they can strike down or amend any law they want because if they 'say' it violates the Charter there is no appeal possible. If the SCC says it's 'unconstitutional' to put people in prison for committing crimes then that's it. That's the law of the land.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 20, 2017, 02:52:43 pm
I never mentioned any auto mechanics so you can stuff your straw man.
The problem with the SCC is when you get activist judges who are also ideologues, they can strike down or amend any law they want because if they 'say' it violates the Charter there is no appeal possible. If the SCC says it's 'unconstitutional' to put people in prison for committing crimes then that's it. That's the law of the land.

Ah,no. That would require an amendment to the constitution and there is a formula for that (sect. 38) or the 7+50 and then there is section 33, the notwithstanding.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 20, 2017, 04:43:21 pm
I never mentioned any auto mechanics so you can stuff your straw man.

Auto mechanics are an example of practical skills one might attend school to attain. What did you mean by practical education if auto mechanics is a stuffable strawman?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 21, 2017, 02:01:37 am
No, I'd prefer they be really smart and know the law really well.

A minute ago you said you prefer practical people.

I know that's an archaic belief, but I guess I'm just old fashioned. I think McLachlan was a disaster as a judge all through her career. She advocated strongly for judicial activism, for judges to overrule parliament any time they thought they knew better, and without regard to what the law actually said. I guess if you're a philosopher you can stretch the meaning and intent of words to cover just about anything you want.

In my recollection, it seems like in 97% of cases where people are complaining about "judicial activism", it's social conservatives bitching about the courts confirming that gay people have the same rights as everybody else. Perhaps that biases me into rolling my eyes every time I hear the phrase "judicial activism".

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 21, 2017, 05:03:04 am
Thread drift.

Will TRUdeau support TRUmp in the UN Jerusalem vote, or save face and abstain ?  Or will he be brave and stupid and humiliate his boss and get NAFTA "deaump"D ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 21, 2017, 12:11:06 pm
A minute ago you said you prefer practical people.

You can't be both?

Quote
In my recollection, it seems like in 97% of cases where people are complaining about "judicial activism", it's social conservatives bitching about the courts confirming that gay people have the same rights as everybody else. Perhaps that biases me into rolling my eyes every time I hear the phrase "judicial activism".


How many cases do you think there have been about gay rights anyway!?
The ones I best remember are the courts striking down various criminal law provisions, letting people out of jail because of changes THEY MADE to evidence laws, and various decisions which favored natives on just about everything they want. Including letting them use 'oral histories' as evidence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 22, 2017, 05:23:09 pm
In my recollection, it seems like in 97% of cases where people are complaining about "judicial activism", it's social conservatives bitching about the courts confirming that gay people have the same rights as everybody else. Perhaps that biases me into rolling my eyes every time I hear the phrase "judicial activism".

I wouldn't say that's true at all.

In Canada, judges limit our constitutional rights.  We have the right to ie: free speech?  Well, us judges recognize your charter right to free speech, but that because of reason X it is reasonable to limit your right to free speech in a free and democratic society.  This means that essentially any of our rights in the Charter of Rights can be overridden based on the subjective opinion of a handful of lifetime appointee judges.  This is extended to the nonsense that can occur in provincial human rights commissions that haul people in front of them to infringe on things like free speech and cases can even be decided by "quasi-judicial" tribunals.

These are limits to our rights not decided by Parliament, but by judges and "adjudicators" in courts and "quasi-judicial tribunals" (aka, not in courts) which aren't real courts and aren't bound by precedent in common law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-judicial_body

https://www.albertahumanrights.ab.ca/tribunal_process/Pages/tribunal_process.aspx
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 22, 2017, 05:36:32 pm
I suspect that having practiced and taught law that McLaughlin probably knows a bit more about law than your auto mechanic. You should also know that the SCC has the right strike down or amend a law when it violates the charter, and that has to be agreed to by a majority, not just the chief justice.

They can also limit our rights in the charter.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 02, 2018, 11:05:56 am
I thought this was a good read and a good reminder and also a good summation of the problems of Trump.

t's also a significant problem how, and how often, Trump strays from the truth. Trump doesn't lie like a politician; he lies like the proverbial used-car dealer. Most politicians don't flat-out lie very often. The good ones spin -- that is, they present their case in as favorable a way as possible, perhaps doing acrobatics around the truth or leaving impressions far from the truth, but without straying to saying something that's outright false. Trump dispenses with all that and simply makes up his own facts. Constantly. Blatantly. He did it from Day 1, where he insisted despite all evidence that the crowd for his inauguration was larger than that of Barack Obama. And he's gone on from there.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-01-02/just-a-reminder-this-isn-t-normal
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on January 02, 2018, 12:03:44 pm
(https://i.redd.it/mywwu71d5o701.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 03, 2018, 02:16:47 pm
Today is going well, if you like world ending nuclear events, and presidential meltdowns.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 03, 2018, 02:22:38 pm
Today is going well, if you like world ending nuclear events, and presidential meltdowns.

I thought his tweet was rather clever, actually.

The news coming out about Bannon's soon-to-be-released book is quite interesting, though.
I'm wondering how the alt-right who worship both him and Bannon are going to react to Bannon calling the meeting between Don Jr, Manafort and Kushner treasonous, and saying he had zero doubt that Don jr would have then taken the Russians to meet with Trump Senior.

http://www.newsweek.com/bannon-says-trump-tower-meeting-russians-treasonous-and-investigators-will-769225
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 03, 2018, 07:21:27 pm
Alex Jones' take on the latest act in the shitshow:

https://www.infowars.com/alex-jones-challenges-bannon-to-confirm-or-deny-anti-trump-comments/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 03, 2018, 08:29:51 pm
I actually like how Trump has handled the North Korean idiot thus far.  Trump's basically telling the a-hole to eff off and call his bluff.  N. Korea has almost no means to attack the USA, minus launching a a poorly made rocket halfway across the Pacific before it gets destroyed by some kind of US jet/counter-measure or crashes into the ocean.  Meanwhile the USA can bomb the country 40x over into oblivion.  Who owns who?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 03, 2018, 08:55:13 pm
While millions of South Korean and Japanese lives hang in the balance.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 03, 2018, 09:31:19 pm
While millions of South Korean and Japanese lives hang in the balance.

Kim Jung Un is an odd ball, but i haven't seen any signs he's suicidal.  He's a bully.  You don't let a cocky little first grader run the schoolyard and push everyone around.  The principal goes into the schoolyard and shows the little punk who's really in charge.  Bush & Obama, how did they fare?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 03, 2018, 09:50:29 pm
Bush & Obama, how did they fare?

We're all still here.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 03, 2018, 10:08:57 pm
Here's the upcoming book:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/michael-wolff-fire-and-fury-book-donald-trump.html

At the beginning of the year we wondered what it would be like, and now we know.  If you read it, I suspect you won't be too surprised but it is ridiculous.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on January 03, 2018, 10:11:57 pm
Actually reading the book would involve spending even more time thinking about these people and that's something I've been actively trying to reduce.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 03, 2018, 11:40:14 pm
I hear that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 04, 2018, 01:04:32 am
I actually like how Trump has handled the North Korean idiot thus far.  Trump's basically telling the a-hole to eff off and call his bluff.  N. Korea has almost no means to attack the USA, minus launching a a poorly made rocket halfway across the Pacific before it gets destroyed by some kind of US jet/counter-measure or crashes into the ocean.  Meanwhile the USA can bomb the country 40x over into oblivion.  Who owns who?

Sounds as though you think Kim is the only idiot involved here. That in itself is equally idiotic I'm afraid.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on January 04, 2018, 08:21:56 am
You don't let a cocky little first grader run the schoolyard and push everyone around. 
Yet you seem perfectly content that the US has done just that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 04, 2018, 08:59:46 am
Sounds as though you think Kim is the only idiot involved here. That in itself is equally idiotic I'm afraid.

Kim is not an idiot! >:(


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 04, 2018, 09:15:16 am
Kim is not an idiot! >:(


 -k

Are you Korean though?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 04, 2018, 09:29:12 am
Dear leader has now got his lawyers to write a cease and desist letter to the PUBLISHER of Wolff's book.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-attorney-sends-letter-author-book-demanding-cease/story?id=52134956

It's #1 on Amazon.  Maybe Trump will ban it.  :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 04, 2018, 09:30:46 am
So this Michael Wolff book sounds very interesting.  It sounds as if it raises troubling questions about his basic mental capacity. And not just in the "man, this guy is a **** idiot" sense, but in the "is he suffering from early onset Alzheimer's?" sense.

The White House is trying to get an injunction to silence the book. They're also trying to get a gag order to silence Bannon.  Maybe there will be a clash between the Second Amendment people and the First Amendment people, I don't know.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 04, 2018, 09:32:57 am
Actually reading the book would involve spending even more time thinking about these people and that's something I've been actively trying to reduce.

I am reminded of a commentator on MSNBC. A former Republican White House staffer, she met a new staffer last year and offered a book on ISIS which she suggested they have Trump read. The new staffer burst out laughing and gave it back, saying 'He doesn't read anything except press clippings about himself."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 04, 2018, 09:35:18 am
So this Michael Wolff book sounds very interesting.  It sounds as if it raises troubling questions about his basic mental capacity. And not just in the "man, this guy is a **** idiot" sense, but in the "is he suffering from early onset Alzheimer's?" sense.

Uhmm...

More than a dozen lawmakers last month met with a Yale University psychiatry professor for two days to discuss President Trump’s fitness for office, Politico reported Wednesday.

Dr. Bandy X. Lee reportedly met with the group of lawmakers on Dec. 5 and Dec. 6 and warned them the president is “going to unravel.” All of the lawmakers in attendance were Democrats, except for one Republican senator.

“We feel that the rush of tweeting is an indication of his falling apart under stress. Trump is going to get worse and will become uncontainable with the pressures of the presidency,” Lee told Politico.


http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/367362-lawmakers-briefed-by-yale-psychiatrist-on-trumps-mental-health-report

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 04, 2018, 09:37:50 am


Quote
In the second excerpt published from Michael Wolff’s new book, the journalist paints a portrait of a President Trump who is increasingly repeating stories, cannot recognize old friends, and is viewed by his closest allies as “incapable of functioning in his job.” The bombshell book, Fire and Fury: Inside the Trump White House, describes a scene where, at Mar-a-Lago, just before the new year, “a heavily made-up Trump failed to recognize a succession of old friends.” Wolff writes, “It used to be inside of 30 minutes he’d repeat, word-for-word and expression-for-expression, the same three stories—now it was within 10 minutes.” He added, “Indeed, many of his tweets were the product of his repetitions—he just couldn’t stop saying something.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/wolff-book-trump-is-incapable-of-functioning-in-his-job-cant-recognize-pals-incapable-of-functioning

 -k

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 04, 2018, 09:43:32 am

At the beginning of the year we wondered what it would be like, and now we know.  If you read it, I suspect you won't be too surprised but it is ridiculous.

Here's a good summation of the highlights. 11 'explosive claims' from the new book.

4. Trump loved 'pursuing' friends' wives - would go a long way to explain why, at 71, he has no real friends.
10. Murdoch calls Trump 'idiot' shows what a scumbag Rupert Murdoch is, because Murdoch's FOX news pulled hard to get Trump elected and is continuing to work hard to enhance his popularity. The story of Bannon and his book is #1 on every network, for example, except FOX.

5. Is just pathetic

"Trump, in fact, found the White House to be vexing and even a little scary. He retreated to his own bedroom - the first time since the Kennedy White House that a presidential couple had maintained separate rooms. In the first days, he ordered two television screens in addition to the one already there, and a lock on the door, precipitating a brief standoff with the Secret Service, who insisted they have access to the room."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42559436
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on January 04, 2018, 09:45:36 am
Quote
Inside the Trump White House, describes a scene where, at Mar-a-Lago, just before the new year, “a heavily made-up Trump failed to recognize a succession of old friends.” Wolff writes, “It used to be inside of 30 minutes he’d repeat, word-for-word and expression-for-expression, the same three stories—now it was within 10 minutes

If that is true, I feel sorry for the man and disgusted by those who continue to support his stay in office. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 04, 2018, 09:48:37 am
I really hope Trump's generals, particularly the ones in the White House (McMaster and Kelly), and his defense secretary Mattis have made sure that Trump has ZERO say in anything related to nuclear weapons.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 04, 2018, 10:50:20 am
Here's a good summation of the highlights. 11 'explosive claims' from the new book.

4. Trump loved 'pursuing' friends' wives - would go a long way to explain why, at 71, he has no real friends.
10. Murdoch calls Trump 'idiot' shows what a scumbag Rupert Murdoch is, because Murdoch's FOX news pulled hard to get Trump elected and is continuing to work hard to enhance his popularity. The story of Bannon and his book is #1 on every network, for example, except FOX.

Fox is a business.  The success of America is not part of their business plan.  This point is an essential flaw in democracy, which depends on a free press that reports truth - in its own AND the public interest.

Quote
5. Is just pathetic

"Trump, in fact, found the White House to be vexing and even a little scary. He retreated to his own bedroom - the first time since the Kennedy White House that a presidential couple had maintained separate rooms. In the first days, he ordered two television screens in addition to the one already there, and a lock on the door, precipitating a brief standoff with the Secret Service, who insisted they have access to the room."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42559436

So the people have elected an unfit president, it seems.  That problem can be absorbed by the democratic system in terms of its checks and balances, however one of those is the free press which as I said above is now not functioning.

The USA is now left with two safety valves: the judiciary, and the legislature.  The former is the best hope in preventing the US from descending into utter chaos, passing unconstitutional laws, banning books etc.  The latter is not functioning, and can't be monitored by a partisan press that doesn't look after the nation's best interests.

The biggest risk, to me, is that the nuclear option has a murky, at best, system of checks and balances.  Millions of lives are directly at risk, and billions of lives indirectly at risk. 

Republican and Democrat leaders, as well as the bureaucracy, need to wake up to what is happening, and join forces behind the scenes to mitigate the chaos. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 04, 2018, 04:14:00 pm
The latest news flash I see is that the publisher of "the book" has received, and has chosen to ignore, the cease and desist order from Trump's lawyer. The book will be available tomorrow at 9am est. Should provide good winter time reading md thinks.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 04, 2018, 05:15:06 pm
We're all still here.

Kim Jung Phat can't do ****.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 04, 2018, 05:19:02 pm
Sounds as though you think Kim is the only idiot involved here.

Well, no, I don't.  Though I don't think Trump is suicidal either, despite being dolt.  It's all saber-rattling, I find it pretty funny. I'm not worried.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 04, 2018, 05:22:01 pm
Yet you seem perfectly content that the US has done just that.

How so?  Give examples.

*crickets*
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 04, 2018, 06:12:10 pm
Got to give Kim the edge. It only took him 33 years to become the 6 year old he is, Trump has been working on it for 71 to reach the same level.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 04, 2018, 08:13:45 pm
Well, no, I don't.  Though I don't think Trump is suicidal either, despite being dolt.  It's all saber-rattling, I find it pretty funny. I'm not worried.

I doubt either one of them is suicidal, it's just they have bothbeen given access to toys that are well beyond their capabilities to be in charge of. Kinda like giving your 5 year old the keys to your car.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 05, 2018, 09:14:15 am
I just heard an audio clip on the news where some host asked Michael Wolff if he would release the audio tapes because his credibility is being challenged.

Wolff replied "my credibility is being challenged by the least credible person who has ever walked this earth."

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 05, 2018, 10:41:33 am
Sad. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 06, 2018, 02:09:30 pm
Trump now says he is a "stable genius". I wonder who exactly he is trying to convince. He may be buying it but it ain't working on me.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 06, 2018, 02:16:38 pm
I really don't understand how his 'base' sticks by him. They can't all be retarded idiots. Are there really that many people willing to suspend any semblance of reality and pretend everyone but FOX news is 'fake news'?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 06, 2018, 02:45:42 pm
Fox and Breitbart but the "children in the sandbox" tumult that now seems to be going on with Bannon may put a bit of a kibosh on support from the latter. It is of course good entertainment to those of us lucky enough to be able to watch from the sidelines but frankly it's getting a bit redundant.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 06, 2018, 02:54:11 pm
I really don't understand how his 'base' sticks by him. They can't all be retarded idiots. Are there really that many people willing to suspend any semblance of reality and pretend everyone but FOX news is 'fake news'?

I would guess 7/10 people are disengaged, and don't have the focus to follow politics.  When that base becomes more disengaged, and bolder in their ignorance then they start blaming politics for their lack of interest.  They believe that answers are simple, that conspiracies are preventing solutions and so on. 

Politicians have played a dangerous game in allowing this group to ferment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 06, 2018, 04:48:57 pm
I would guess 7/10 people are disengaged, and don't have the focus to follow politics.  When that base becomes more disengaged, and bolder in their ignorance then they start blaming politics for their lack of interest.  They believe that answers are simple, that conspiracies are preventing solutions and so on. 

Politicians have played a dangerous game in allowing this group to ferment.

Republican politicians certainly have. Remember a few years back when the army was going to hold some fairly routine exercises in Texas and a bunch of tards started worrying it was Obama invading to seize their guns? Did their representatives call them a bunch of wackos and suggest psychiatric exams? Nope. They pandered to them. The Texas governor promised to have the Texas state guard monitor the exercise. Ted Cruz and Louie Gohmert, among other Republican politicians, both pandered to them as well.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 07, 2018, 02:13:20 pm
Another day, another whiplash effect from Trump and Co. It looks like Bannon is now kissing his old bosses ass, whilst Trump is drawing his line in the sand saying you either support me or you support Bannon. Then there was this interview today with this idiot Stephen Miller who used to have his nose a long way Bannon's but now has it up Trump's. Then of course we have the idiot in chief tweeting out how he is a "stable genius". I have seen little kids getting into a snit in a sandbox but they seemed much more intelligent than what we see of a similar nature emanating from Washington on an almost daily basis these days. Sheesh!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 07, 2018, 03:50:01 pm
This is **** up
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on January 07, 2018, 07:15:34 pm
This is **** up
Perfectly normal for those who are “tired of politically correct snowflake politicians.” This is what they asked for. This is what they get.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on January 07, 2018, 07:20:11 pm
Perfectly normal for those who are “tired of politically correct snowflake politicians.” This is what they asked for. This is what they get.

I'm tired of both.  Except Trump is more entertaining.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on January 07, 2018, 07:20:56 pm
Entertainment culture is destroying civil society; people would rather be entertained than informed or enlightened.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 07, 2018, 07:33:34 pm
Dumb book and the fallout is just a distraction from real issues and policies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on January 07, 2018, 08:11:45 pm
Entertainment culture is destroying civil society; people would rather be entertained than informed or enlightened.

Yeah, I can't disagree with that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 08, 2018, 12:35:20 am
Dumb book and the fallout is just a distraction from real issues and policies.

And just what real issues and policies have enraptured you with the current administration. I'll get the popcorn.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 08, 2018, 08:23:39 am
And just what real issues and policies have enraptured you with the current administration. I'll get the popcorn.

You're right, there are no real issues or gov policies that affect the American people or the world.  Let's just talk about whatever dumb tweet the POTUS made because that's what's really matters.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 08, 2018, 11:46:19 am
You're right, there are no real issues or gov policies that affect the American people or the world.  Let's just talk about whatever dumb tweet the POTUS made because that's what's really matters.

Yes with this "stable genius" bit he has outdone himself yet again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 08, 2018, 01:51:09 pm
I see Trump now wants to block off from 8am to 11am so he can be alone for "executive time". What cartoons are on in Washington during those hours?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 09, 2018, 01:48:30 am
This is **** up

Yeah, a gong show of epic proportions. 

I think in Trump's senile mind he thinks he's still hosting The Apprentice. 

Pit all the participants against each other and fire someone for ratings every week. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 09, 2018, 02:01:05 am
The 25th seems applicable but it's obviously a long shot. Perhaps the best way is to convince Oprah to escort Donald out of the WH in 2020. And of course he will lose control of congress next November.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 09, 2018, 02:13:34 am
Oprah is considering a run too??  And The Rock too from what I've read.

What a sad pathetic joke a once great nation has become.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 09, 2018, 05:18:30 am
  They pandered to them. The Texas governor promised to have the Texas state guard monitor the exercise. Ted Cruz and Louie Gohmert, among other Republican politicians, both pandered to them as well.

...and the cultural gulf widens...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 09, 2018, 05:19:36 am
Oprah is considering a run too??  ...

What a sad pathetic joke a once great nation has become.

Liberals in my news feed are actually stating that Oprah might make a good president.  This is what happens when you eat too much TV...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on January 09, 2018, 05:22:29 am
People no longer know how or no longer care to be informed, only entertained. If you want to know the relative value of each, just look how much teachers make versus celebrities.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 09, 2018, 09:07:37 am
Liberals in my news feed are actually stating that Oprah might make a good president.  This is what happens when you eat too much TV...

Well, she'd be better than Trump. But that's a pretty damned low bar. What the US does NOT need now is its third amateur president in a row. What the US does not need now is another minority to trigger the far right. What the Democrats should be putting up is a solid, respectable, career politician who will not only get all the left and centrist voters, but will even draw off some of the right fed up with Trump and cause others on the right to simply stay home, as they did during the Alabama senate race. They don't need someone from the progressive wing calculated to drive the right to the barricades and not incidentally, reinforce for a lot of White Americans that the Democrats are the part of minorities so they damned well better support the Republicans come hell or high water.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 09, 2018, 02:09:50 pm
Trump today sits in the Oval Office flanked by two high ranking democrats as well as a group of bi partisans and allows the media to remain for nearly an hour. Another whiplash from this WH and he's obviously kissing ass as he looks at his current numbers and how they will likely affect the mid terms. My advice would be don't buy the bullshit, we've all seen how easily he flip flops.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 09, 2018, 08:52:40 pm
Too funny.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russians-flock-to-trump-properties-to-give-birth-to-us-citizens
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 09, 2018, 09:06:01 pm
Too funny.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russians-flock-to-trump-properties-to-give-birth-to-us-citizens

Hah, have you presented this one to the main American troll on that other forum? I'd love to see how he skates around that one.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 09, 2018, 09:43:19 pm
Haven’t posted there for months but feel free.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 09, 2018, 09:59:27 pm
Haven’t posted there for months but feel free.

Oh I got sent to the woodshed . CA doesn't like my stance it seems.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 09, 2018, 11:09:16 pm
Oh well.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 10, 2018, 04:53:32 am
There's a new troll over there who is doing quite well.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 10, 2018, 05:02:49 am
Hey, remember Steve Bannon?  Former "Chief Strategist" or whatever his official title was?

He's been fired at Breitpravda.  And he's been "cut off" by Rebekah Mercer, his sugar-momma.


"Sloppy Steve", as Trump has taken to calling him, has always looked like a guy you'd find laying on the sidewalk begging for change.  Soon he may actually be a guy you'll find laying on the sidewalk begging for change!

This is small and petty, but I couldn't stop laughing.  30 things Steve Bannon looks like:

https://www.inverse.com/article/27285-steve-bannon-looks-like-memes

"Steve Bannon looks like a Greyhound bus smells."

"Steve Bannon looks like the only dude at a party who remains calm when the hooker dies."

"Steve Bannon looks like somebody you'd see screaming at a kids football game despite not being a coach or knowing any of the kids."


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 10, 2018, 05:32:09 am
Fired at Sirius XM too.  That means less far-right influence in the Trump WH, possible drop in support from the nutty fringe, maybe some more bipartisanship like we saw yesterday but really who knows.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 10, 2018, 08:23:03 am
The sassy trump on YouTube is golden.  Every time he speaks this should be done.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on January 10, 2018, 08:27:28 am
What the US does not need now is another minority to trigger the far right.
So there shouldn't be a black, female, or any other minority as president or even running for president, so we don't offend the tender sensibilities of **** ****? Excuse me, but minorities shouldn't be apologetic for their existence and shame on you for suggesting they should be disqualified for office because racists and bigots will be upset.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 10, 2018, 09:40:09 am
The sassy trump on YouTube is golden.  Every time he speaks this should be done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY6Tvso1eyg

These are great! :D

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 10, 2018, 10:41:49 am
I think it's an improvement on him generally.  You can totally imagine him speaking like that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 10, 2018, 02:40:17 pm
Fired at Sirius XM too.  That means less far-right influence in the Trump WH, possible drop in support from the nutty fringe, maybe some more bipartisanship like we saw yesterday but really who knows.

Thank God he can still rely on Alex Jones.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 10, 2018, 02:42:32 pm
So there shouldn't be a black, female, or any other minority as president or even running for president, so we don't offend the tender sensibilities of **** ****? Excuse me, but minorities shouldn't be apologetic for their existence and shame on you for suggesting they should be disqualified for office because racists and bigots will be upset.

I'm being realistic, which I know is anathema to progressives.
The goal is to replace Trump with someone capable. The best way to do that is to put in place the kind of person I described.

Obama was supposed to be the progressive force which cast of racism and united America. Turned out America wasn't ready for him and he was extraordinarily divisive, pushing more and more people further and further to the right.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 10, 2018, 03:16:51 pm
I'm being realistic, which I know is anathema to progressives.
The goal is to replace Trump with someone capable. The best way to do that is to put in place the kind of person I described.

Obama was supposed to be the progressive force which cast of racism and united America. Turned out America wasn't ready for him and he was extraordinarily divisive, pushing more and more people further and further to the right.

I don't think so. The GOP may be doing well politically just now but of course we all know how gerrymandered that is in favor of the right, and the the mid terms loom and things look to be a changin", but if you look at the man in the street level, things like same sex marriage, now legal country wide, marijuana, states signing on to legalization one after the other, more people want stricter gun controls, and a recent poll concluded that 42% of young Americans favored socialism over capitalism. If Oprah runs Trump is done.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 10, 2018, 06:09:34 pm
I don't think so. The GOP may be doing well politically just now but of course we all know how gerrymandered that is in favor of the right, and the the mid terms loom and things look to be a changin", but if you look at the man in the street level, things like same sex marriage, now legal country wide, marijuana, states signing on to legalization one after the other, more people want stricter gun controls, and a recent poll concluded that 42% of young Americans favored socialism over capitalism. If Oprah runs Trump is done.

Sure. I would bet she would win. I'd vote for her over Trump.

Then what? You've got another TV show host in office, one who knows little to nothing about the problems facing America, little to nothing about the intricacies of political negotiation and getting bills passed, little to nothing about dealing with huge budget deficits and debt, little to nothing about dealing with the likes of Russia and China. On top of that you've enraged a sizeable portion of the US. It's not just a few rednecks in the klan. Tens of millions of Americans will be infuriated, not just because she's a Black woman but because she's so far to the Left (A goddam Hollywood liberal!), and they will push the Republicans to fight her tooth and nail at every turn.

How is that preferable to having a moderate candidate with political experience  who is reasonably acceptable to all and who stands a chance of healing the divisions down there?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 10, 2018, 06:19:55 pm
I'm starting to think that a tech or business visionary with some depth of character would be a good choice.

Wasn't there a Republican lady who was a tech president ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 10, 2018, 07:52:07 pm
Sure. I would bet she would win. I'd vote for her over Trump.

Then what? You've got another TV show host in office, one who knows little to nothing about the problems facing America, little to nothing about the intricacies of political negotiation and getting bills passed, little to nothing about dealing with huge budget deficits and debt, little to nothing about dealing with the likes of Russia and China. On top of that you've enraged a sizeable portion of the US. It's not just a few rednecks in the klan. Tens of millions of Americans will be infuriated, not just because she's a Black woman but because she's so far to the Left (A goddam Hollywood liberal!), and they will push the Republicans to fight her tooth and nail at every turn.

How is that preferable to having a moderate candidate with political experience  who is reasonably acceptable to all and who stands a chance of healing the divisions down there?

I never said I wanted her to win, just that she likely would, and I doubt she will ever run anyway. What they need is a career politician who can bring at least a little harmony so that something can get done down there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 10, 2018, 08:07:56 pm
Trump now is tweeting out that "the Republicans should take over the Russian collusion investigation". He seemed yet again to not bother checking the facts first, the Repubs. are completely in control of all facets of that investigation. How does he get away with such ignorance/stupidity? Gad zukes!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 10, 2018, 08:20:18 pm
I really wish Jake Tapper would stop interviewing Kellyanne. He's doing one just now and my BP is rising. She is such a stunned **** all she can do is keep flapping her gums speaking over any attempt to ask her a question that she can't answer so as to muddy the waters and run out the clock. A total waste of air time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 10, 2018, 08:47:04 pm
I never said I wanted her to win, just that she likely would, and I doubt she will ever run anyway. What they need is a career politician who can bring at least a little harmony so that something can get done down there.

Isn't that what _I_ said?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 10, 2018, 08:56:49 pm
Isn't that what _I_ said?

Somewhat I guess, but then of course you went off speaking for tens of millions of Americans and assuming Oprah knows nothing because she is a lefty. That's where you lost me.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 10, 2018, 11:26:00 pm
I'm being realistic, which I know is anathema to progressives.
The goal is to replace Trump with someone capable. The best way to do that is to put in place the kind of person I described.

The best way is to choose a candidate that will get your own supporters excited enough to vote. That's not necessarily a white dude.

Obama was supposed to be the progressive force which cast of racism and united America.

Obama was seen, as some, as a sign that America was "post racial"-- that if a black man could win the majority of votes in a Presidential election, it was a sign that racism was no longer a decisive factor in America.  Perhaps that was overly optimistic.  But I don't recall anybody ever saying that racism was gone, or that Obama would convince the remaining racists to change their minds.


Turned out America wasn't ready for him

I call bullshit on this.  He received more votes than anybody else who has ever run for President. The only POTUS candidate who has ever received more votes than Obama did in 2012 is Obama in 2008. He won both elections very comfortably. If that's not a sign that America was "ready", what is?

And of those who didn't vote for Obama in those elections, I strongly suspect that for most it's not they "weren't ready" for a black man to be president, but rather that they thought John McCain was more qualified or that Mitt Romney could do more to improve the economy or that they didn't like some of Obama's policy positions.  I think many of the people who voted for McCain or Romney in those elections did so for reasons that have nothing to do with Obama's skin color.

Those who were truly "not ready" for a non-white President, I believe, are actually a fringe minority of racists, rednecks, and conspiracy kooks. The likes of Joe Arpaio, Orly Taitz, and Klansmen.


and he was extraordinarily divisive,

Every US President is extraordinarily divisive.  Trump is monumentally divisive. Obama was divisive. George W. Bush was divisive-- don't tell me you've forgotten the immense mad-on "the left" had for Dubya.  Bill Clinton was extremely divisive. Recall Ann Coulter fantasizing that somebody would assassinate him?

I'm not old enough to remember whether George H. W. Bush was as divisive as everybody who has come after. Maybe it began during the Bill Clinton years,  I really don't know.  I do know that every POTUS since G.H.W. Bush has been thoroughly demonized by the opposition.

pushing more and more people further and further to the right.

I don't think anybody became far-right because of Obama.  He might have gotten people who were already far-right riled up. Trump also got people who were already far-right riled up. Tapped into that anger and resentment, got them fired up enough to get out and vote.  These people weren't ever going to vote Democrat.  They're people who didn't bother voting for Romney in 2012 because Romney didn't pander to their feeling of white aggrievement the way Trump did. 


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on January 11, 2018, 11:45:43 am
“Those who were truly "not ready" for a non-white President, I believe, are actually a fringe minority of racists, rednecks, and conspiracy kooks. The likes of Joe Arpaio, Orly Taitz, and Klansmen. “

Minority yes....but a large one. Probably about 1:5 voters.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 11, 2018, 04:40:15 pm
Somewhat I guess, but then of course you went off speaking for tens of millions of Americans and assuming Oprah knows nothing because she is a lefty. That's where you lost me.

I assume she knows nothing about running government because she has zero government experience or education in how government works, not because she's a lefty.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 11, 2018, 05:31:57 pm
I assume she knows nothing about running government because she has zero government experience or education in how government works, not because she's a lefty.

Seriously, we either need to make a fake branch of government that people can pay attention to .... that actually does nothing but argue about identity politics ... or we elect real visionaries.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 11, 2018, 06:01:54 pm
The best way is to choose a candidate that will get your own supporters excited enough to vote. That's not necessarily a white dude.

That's not necessary when the alternative is Donald Trump.

Quote
Obama was seen, as some, as a sign that America was "post racial"-- that if a black man could win the majority of votes in a Presidential election, it was a sign that racism was no longer a decisive factor in America.  Perhaps that was overly optimistic.  But I don't recall anybody ever saying that racism was gone, or that Obama would convince the remaining racists to change their minds.

What he seems to have done is to energize the far right and get them more support.

Quote
I call bullshit on this.  He received more votes than anybody else who has ever run for President.

Obama's margin of victory in his first election was 7.3%. Roosevelt's was 24.3% in 1936. Calvin Coolidge's was 25.2%, and Warren Harding 26.2%. Reagan's was about 9.5% in his first election, 18% in his second.

There were a lot of Americans who loved the idea of post race, as you say, and eagerly voted for him. But there were a lot of others who were more dubious, and as his presidency continued they began to get more and more sullen. I don't think that was all because he was Black, by any means. It had more to do with economic circumstances and the rise of right wing media giving them a distorted image of the world,  but his being Black played a part in focusing their discontent. A lot of middle America saw this Black, arrogant, educated, elite, urban guy they saw as talking down to them, not caring about them, and doing things that hurt them. They will see in Oprah another Obama.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 11, 2018, 11:05:00 pm
I assume she knows nothing about running government because she has zero government experience or education in how government works, not because she's a lefty.

How do you know her views on economics and such?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 11, 2018, 11:16:34 pm
I wonder if Trump is by now wishing he hadn't made the "shithole country's" comments?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 12, 2018, 03:47:41 am
I wonder if Trump is by now wishing he hadn't made the "shithole country's" comments?

By now I doubt Trump even remembers he made "shithole countries" comments.  That was hours ago.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 12, 2018, 06:19:49 am
His approval ratings are up, by the way.  Not as a result of the comments, but post-tax hike. 

Who knows why.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on January 12, 2018, 08:04:26 am
By now I doubt Trump even remembers he made "shithole countries" comments.  That was hours ago.


 -k

Is it wrong to call these places shithole countries?   It certainly isn't an uncommon sentiment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on January 12, 2018, 08:52:16 am
But he said that they don't want people from those shithole countries. Can you see the difference between saying "Winnipeg is a shithole" and "We don't want people from that shithole Winnipeg"?
Regardless, having a president that says such things makes the U.S. look like, well, a shithole.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 12, 2018, 09:19:25 am
Trump asked why they don't get more immigrants from Norway.  Now he has his answer.

"Nobody here wants to go to your ****-hole country."   -Norwegians on Twitter.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 12, 2018, 09:29:36 am
How do you know her views on economics and such?

All I know is she's progressive and her degree is in communications. Communications degrees don't generally contain much economics training.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 12, 2018, 09:32:26 am
Is it wrong to call these places shithole countries?   It certainly isn't an uncommon sentiment.

The question Trump raised "Why are we bringing in all these people from shithole countries?" is a common one in middle America, and Canada, as well. Certainly Haiti qualifies. Its immigrants are less educated and less skilled than the norm, and tend to be on the bottom in terms of economic success in Canada. I assume it's even worse in the US since nobody down there speaks French.

But while it's something a lot of people say it's not something that's meant to be made public by world leaders. They all put on a veneer of respect for each others countries and maintain it despite the fact everyone knows its nonsense.

The comparison to Norway, btw, is likely because he just had the Norwegian prime minister there and probably got some mini brief describing how rich, educated and stable Norway is, so it came to mind.

She was there because the US is selling them F-52 fighters.... ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on January 12, 2018, 09:35:22 am
Trump asked why they don't get more immigrants from Norway.  Now he has his answer.

"Nobody here wants to go to your ****-hole country."   -Norwegians on Twitter.

 -k

Not surprised.  The assumption that Western countries can just order up immigrants from their "preferred" (aka predominantly White/Christian) countries is mind-boggling arrogant, imo. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on January 12, 2018, 09:41:10 am
The question Trump raised "Why are we bringing in all these people from shithole countries?" is a common one in middle America, and Canada, as well.

I would say that people who don't think world leaders should be saying it should also be objecting to personal acquaintances saying it.  On the other hand, its another example of him saying what (some? many? most?) people are thinking.  Given that is what seems to have got him elected, why is he denying it now?   

But then who knows, perhaps he'll embrace it again tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on January 12, 2018, 09:58:13 am
I don't think it's as common a sentiment as you think.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on January 12, 2018, 10:20:38 am
But he said that they don't want people from those shithole countries.
Exactly.

Here's a good explanation of the difference from reddit:

. . . Calling some of these countries shitholes isn't really racist in and of itself. You can refer to a country as a shithole because of how it is run and not because of the normal people that live there. Often it is not the people's fault their country is in the state that it is in.

What's racist is when Trump talks about not wanting people from these countries. This IS directly implying these places are shitholes because of who live there. And that all the nationalities he deems unwelcome are brown folks.

So yes, Trump is a racist piece of ****. But not because of saying a country is a shithole. It's because he thinks the people there are inferior and not welcome in the US.


https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7pvz1t/un_calls_donald_trumps_shole_immigrants_comments/dskguk6/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 12, 2018, 10:52:24 am
So yes, Trump is a racist piece of ****. But not because of saying a country is a shithole. It's because he thinks the people there are inferior and not welcome in the US.[/i]

By what metric are we judging inferiority or equality?

Overall, as immigrants, people from these areas ARE inferior in their economic performance here.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on January 12, 2018, 11:02:16 am
To which study are you referring, professor?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 12, 2018, 11:26:49 am
To which study are you referring, professor?

https://www.thestar.com/news/immigration/2015/03/20/government-studies-immigrant-incomes-by-where-they-come-from.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 12, 2018, 11:28:05 am
David Frum's judgement of Trump from his new book Trumpocracy.

He portrays Mr. Trump as an amateur, a charlatan, a con artist, a manipulator, a poseur, a serial fibber if not outright liar, a vulgarian, a swindler, a skimmer and a trimmer, a man-child lacking character, intelligence, integrity, judgment, clarity of thought, a coherent philosophy or a worldview and management and organizational skills.

Duh.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on January 12, 2018, 11:37:01 am
I don't think it's as common a sentiment as you think.

I think even "middle of the road" people who may not use the term shithole are of the belief that non-Western countries are seriously lacking modern progressive standards and amenities. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 12, 2018, 12:04:06 pm
https://www.thestar.com/news/immigration/2015/03/20/government-studies-immigrant-incomes-by-where-they-come-from.html

wait, what? Why... that's from that there HarperConservative 'surveySays'... the voluntary "NHS replacement" for that nasty and so intrusive mandatory long-form census!

The mandatory long-form census is back in time for 2016, new minister vows ‘accurate and reliable data’ --- http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/the-mandatory-long-form-census-is-back-new-ministers-announce-vowing-reliable-good-quality-data

Quote
The Tories replaced the long-form census in 2010 with a voluntary National Household Survey (NHS), which critics felt had significant shortcomings.

They said data in the NHS didn’t accurately reflect smaller geographic areas as well as certain groups, such as lower-income Canadians and immigrants, who tend not to respond to surveys. As well, the NHS was voluntary; the long-form census will not be.

Munir Sheikh, the chief statistician of Canada at the time of the Tory change, resigned in protest, insisting a voluntary survey couldn’t be a substitute for a mandatory census.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 12, 2018, 12:22:29 pm
wait, what? Why... that's from that there HarperConservative 'surveySays'... the voluntary "NHS replacement" for that nasty and so intrusive mandatory long-form census!

The mandatory long-form census is back in time for 2016, new minister vows ‘accurate and reliable data’ --- http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/the-mandatory-long-form-census-is-back-new-ministers-announce-vowing-reliable-good-quality-data

Psst, that data doesn't support the "shithole" theory so ssshhh.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on January 12, 2018, 12:24:27 pm
I think even "middle of the road" people who may not use the term shithole are of the belief that non-Western countries are seriously lacking modern progressive standards and amenities.
Again, it's not the use of the term "shithole" that has gotten people's dander up (despite it being a classless thing for a president to say). It's the reference to the people who live there. "Middle of the road" people may believe some non-Western countries lack modern amenities, but they don't demonize the people who live there because of it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 12, 2018, 12:37:32 pm
What cracks me up is Trump actually thinks Norwegians are falling all over themselves trying to immigrate to the US.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 12, 2018, 12:39:20 pm
I can well imagine Rex Tillerson must be seething and pulling his hair out over trump's shithole ****. This type of childish nonsense must make the jobs of diplomats scattered about the globe not only more difficult but I can imagine in some situations dangerous.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on January 12, 2018, 02:24:57 pm
https://www.thestar.com/news/immigration/2015/03/20/government-studies-immigrant-incomes-by-where-they-come-from.html
Did you read your link? Who is it comparing the immigrants to? Does it say all immigrants from certain areas are struggling or only ones with specific differences? Did you see the part about the reliability of the NHS for immigrant respondents? You need to think about what you're reading.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 12, 2018, 02:38:43 pm
wait, what? Why... that's from that there HarperConservative 'surveySays'... the voluntary "NHS replacement" for that nasty and so intrusive mandatory long-form census!

Are you under the illusion this was a study done by or for the politicians? Because there's zero evidence to support that but I'm certainly willing to listen to any evidence you imagine you have.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 12, 2018, 02:40:52 pm
Did you read your link? Who is it comparing the immigrants to?

Each other.

Quote
Does it say all immigrants from certain areas are struggling or only ones with specific differences?

It is a statistical breakdown comparing immigrants to Canadians and sub-dividing them to see which performed better against each other and against the native born.

Quote
Did you see the part about the reliability of the NHS for immigrant respondents? You need to think about what you're reading.

Can you posit why this would influence one group of immigrants vs another group of immigrants to a great degree? The facts seem fairly clear, and I went to the trouble of asking for a copy of the study from Immigration Canada, some of which I posted on that other site. It also pretty clearly echoes a similar study done over a decade earlier which I also posted several times on that other site.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 12, 2018, 03:20:57 pm
Are you under the illusion this was a study done by or for the politicians?

the only illusion here is yours in considering the HarperConservative introduced voluntary NHS survey data is legitimate/representative... but don't fret; I'm sure you can rustle something out of your closed-shop, non-peer reviewed Fraser Institute reserves!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 12, 2018, 07:04:06 pm
So yes, Trump is a racist piece of ****. But not because of saying a country is a shithole. It's because he thinks the people there are inferior and not welcome in the US.

He's a piece of **** if he generalizes that ALL people from these countries are **** because in general terms the people from these countries have bad outcomes. He may kinda have done that with his alleged comments about Haitians.  If you think Haitians in general are ****, well you're not wrong.  If you think ALL Haitians are **** that's obviously wrong, but not necessarily racist.  All immigrants should be judged on their own merits and not generalized by their identified group.

If the UN told Canada they had a choice to take in either 10 million refugees from Norway or 10 million refugees from Haiti and Africa, statistically speaking you'd be insane not to choose Norway, and that has nothing to do with race.  I think that's what Trump's getting at, but he might be over-generalizing so being a complete prick about it.  Still doesn't mean it's discriminating by race, it's discriminating by country of origin.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 12, 2018, 08:51:04 pm
http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/12/politics/****-star-trump-lawyer/index.html

Trump paid a pornstar $130,000 to keep silent.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 12, 2018, 09:10:26 pm

If the UN told Canada they had a choice to take in either 10 million refugees from Norway or 10 million refugees from Haiti and Africa, statistically speaking you'd be insane not to choose Norway, and that has nothing to do with race.  I think that's what Trump's getting at, but he might be over-generalizing so being a complete prick about it.  Still doesn't mean it's discriminating by race, it's discriminating by country of origin.

I think he mentioned Norway because the last furiner he talked to was the Norwegian prime minister. :)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 12, 2018, 10:46:47 pm
http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/12/politics/****-star-trump-lawyer/index.html

Trump paid a pornstar $130,000 to keep silent.

Yawn.  He is a reprobate but this latest garbage won't matter.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 12, 2018, 11:14:03 pm
Yawn.  He is a reprobate but this latest garbage won't matter.

Wont matter? but I thought all the right wing religious nignogs bowed down to the 10 commandment horseshit which doesn't allow screwing hookers, especially after you take the vows of marriage.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 12, 2018, 11:49:08 pm
Stuff

you're the one who stated, "Overall, as immigrants, people from these areas ARE inferior in their economic performance here". Member Bubber asked your professorial self for a study reference... whereupon you choked forward with a link to a NHS voluntary survey data based reference. As I said when you asked what illusion I was under:
 
the only illusion here is yours in considering the HarperConservative introduced voluntary NHS survey data is legitimate/representative...

odd that you would attempt to support Trump's shytehole labeling with a reference relying upon illegitimate/unrepresentative data
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 13, 2018, 02:45:28 am
Wont matter? but I thought all the right wing religious nignogs bowed down to the 10 commandment horseshit which doesn't allow screwing hookers, especially after you take the vows of marriage.

**** Star...  hookers are paid for sex....   **** stars are ummm....   well they have sex and get paid for their acting. 

One of those things is illegal....   the other is a business.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 13, 2018, 04:08:12 am
**** Star...  hookers are paid for sex....   **** stars are ummm....   well they have sex and get paid for their acting. 

One of those things is illegal....   the other is a business.
Maybe Donny should try and line himself up with a post impeachment job as a salesman with that  "My Pillow" TV guy. He could promote the two fer one promo (1 for home, 1 for the hooker) price deal.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 13, 2018, 08:30:16 am
Wont matter? but I thought all the right wing religious nignogs bowed down to the 10 commandment horseshit which doesn't allow screwing hookers, especially after you take the vows of marriage.

They are crazy.  They won't care.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 13, 2018, 10:06:41 am
Wont matter? but I thought all the right wing religious nignogs bowed down to the 10 commandment horseshit which doesn't allow screwing hookers, especially after you take the vows of marriage.

Why would you think that?
The so-called Christian right only has one page in its bible. That page has two commandments.
Though shalt not be a ****
Though shalt not have an abortion

That's the entirety of their religious beliefs. All that **** about helping the sick and poor and being kind and adultery being bad and it being easier for a camel to pass through he eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven - out the window. Not interesting. Practically Communist.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 13, 2018, 10:11:08 am
you're the one who stated, "Overall, as immigrants, people from these areas ARE inferior in their economic performance here". Member Bubber asked your professorial self for a study reference... whereupon you choked forward with a link to a NHS voluntary survey data based reference. As I said when you asked what illusion I was under:

odd that you would attempt to support Trump's shytehole labeling with a reference relying upon illegitimate/unrepresentative data

Your belief that the entire census is invalid is laughable. You sound like a Trump devotee decrying 'fake news' because it doesn't agree with you. I also pointed out the results almost entirely agree with the results of an earlier study done more than a decade before. Take your act elsewhere.

Edit by moderator - I did not put stuff in the body of the quote as an insult.  I simply left it as a placeholder for a deleted post.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 13, 2018, 12:10:38 pm
Your belief that the entire census is invalid is laughable. You sound like a Trump devotee decrying 'fake news' because it doesn't agree with you. I also pointed out the results almost entirely agree with the results of an earlier study done more than a decade before. Take your act elsewhere.

how odd - I didn't read you qualifying your immigrant bashing statements to reflect the inadequacy and bias within the voluntary (HarperConservative introduced) NHSurvey data... data said, "not to accurately reflect smaller geographic areas as well as certain groups, such as lower-income Canadians and immigrants, who tend not to respond to surveys". Considering StatsCan issued caveats on its NHS based reports; as in, "The NHS estimates are derived from a voluntary survey and are therefore subject to potentially higher non-response error than those derived from the 2006 census long form"... considering glaring discrepancies showed through in comparing results of NHS based analysis to actual reporting from government agencies (e.g. NHS data versus administrative data from the Department of Citizenship and Immigration Canada).....

you speak of laughable beliefs; clearly you have the laughable belief foundation to do so!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 13, 2018, 02:36:43 pm
how odd - I didn't read you qualifying your immigrant bashing statements to reflect the inadequacy and bias within the voluntary (HarperConservative introduced) NHSurvey data... data said, "not to accurately reflect smaller geographic areas as well as certain groups, such as lower-income Canadians and immigrants, who tend not to respond to surveys". Considering StatsCan issued caveats on its NHS based reports; as in, "The NHS estimates are derived from a voluntary survey and are therefore subject to potentially higher non-response error than those derived from the 2006 census long form"... considering glaring discrepancies showed through in comparing results of NHS based analysis to actual reporting from government agencies (e.g. NHS data versus administrative data from the Department of Citizenship and Immigration Canada).....

you speak of laughable beliefs; clearly you have the laughable belief foundation to do so!

You're BORING ME AGAIN!
What the hell difference does this  make? If anything, the immigrants who don't respond would be the more ignorant ones with the lower literacy rates and the poorer jobs (or lack of jobs) which means that the census likely OVER estimated their income. But carry on with your desperate quibbling in an attempt to say something of relevance.

I mean, are you suggesting Haitians have a really great economic success rate as compared to say British or French... or Nowegians? It's not like what the study came up with is out of line with what everyone sees every day anyway. You're just being snotty for the sake of being snotty.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 14, 2018, 12:54:56 am
You're BORING ME AGAIN!

What the hell difference does this  make? If anything, the immigrants who don't respond would be the more ignorant ones with the lower literacy rates and the poorer jobs (or lack of jobs) which means that the census likely OVER estimated their income. But carry on with your desperate quibbling in an attempt to say something of relevance.

I mean, are you suggesting Haitians have a really great economic success rate as compared to say British or French... or Nowegians? It's not like what the study came up with is out of line with what everyone sees every day anyway. You're just being snotty for the sake of being snotty.

clearly you have no regard for data integrity... you showed as much recently with yet another of your bigly fails with Fraser Institute data. Given how you've forever touted your government "insight" based on your CRA jobs, I'm surprised you haven't heard of one of the bigger ****-ups with NHS data... you know, the one that allowed Harper Conservatives to (falsely) claim their government/policies were responsible for shrinking Canadian income inequality. Eventually, of course, the pee-poor NHS data/results were compared to actual income data collected by CRA and highlighted just how NHS data misrepresented economic, ethnicity and cultural related analysis at a localized geographic level. You know, like I've stated now a few times: "NHS data was shown not to accurately reflect smaller geographic areas as well as certain groups, such as lower-income Canadians and immigrants, who tend not to respond to surveys". What's that you say? You can intuitively smell-out the distinction between the non-response of an immigrant versus the non-response of that of a lower-income non-immigrant Canadian... you can do that? HotDamn, you're good!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 14, 2018, 09:16:16 am
clearly you have no regard for data integrity...

Er, no, I simply have no regard for YOU and your constant preening and trolling.

Quote
you showed as much recently with yet another of your bigly fails with Fraser Institute data.

And once again you troll with the Fraser Institute, which is not even a part of this topic, and  inwhich, btw, you lost the argument anyway.

Quote
Given how you've forever touted your government "insight" based on your CRA jobs, I'm surprised you haven't heard of one of the bigger ****-ups with NHS data... you know, the one that allowed Harper Conservatives to (falsely) claim their government/policies were responsible for shrinking Canadian income inequality.

The Harper government, as far as I'm aware, never made such a claim. The claim was made by the Parliamentary Budget Office led by a man who the Harper government rather clearly despised. But you go ahead with your attempts at trolling and shifting the subject.

Quote
"NHS data was shown not to accurately reflect smaller geographic areas as well as certain groups, such as lower-income Canadians and immigrants, who tend not to respond to surveys". W

And as I've already pointed out, even if we accept the validity of that claim it's IRRELEVANT, because, if accurate, it would likely mean the report overstated the income level of immigrants, rather than understating it. In other words, the income level of Haitians is even worse than the report suggests.

But you know that. You're simply trolling. No one is going to make the case that immigrants from the likes of Haiti are going to be as economically successful, as a group, as immigrants from Europe.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 14, 2018, 09:27:35 am
Can you guys just challenge your sources please without deploying a Niagara-Falls-scale urinating match ?

1. Get a better study.
2. Some areas of the world will provide the lowest level economic performers to Canada.
3. It's valid to ask why they are underperforming.
4. It's valid to ask if we should be bringing them to Canada.
5. If the reasons for bringing immigrants to Canada in the first place (humanitarianism, economic self-interest etc.) are to be debated anyway, then why not establish those points before you get into the details of the argument ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 14, 2018, 09:51:27 am
Can you guys just challenge your sources please without deploying a Niagara-Falls-scale urinating match ?

1. Get a better study.

Not possible. If immigration proponents won't even accept the validity of a study conducted by the immigration department itself, even where it pretty much lines up with common sense and observed reality, what makes you think they'd accept any other study which contradicts their sacred values of wide open immigration and he equality of all peoples everywhere? They certainly wouldn't accept a study from any 'right wing' group, and the only other group which might launch such a study would likely be composed of immigration lawyers and other advocates.

Quote
2. Some areas of the world will provide the lowest level economic performers to Canada.
3. It's valid to ask why they are underperforming.

Because in general they lack the educational, communication, cultural and skill requirements. There isn't even much in the way of public education in Haiti, for example. Almost all schools are privately run by various foreign charities.

Quote
5. If the reasons for bringing immigrants to Canada in the first place (humanitarianism, economic self-interest etc.) are to be debated anyway, then why not establish those points before you get into the details of the argument ?

You know that's been tried. But government has been making mouth noises for so long about how immigration helps the economy most people have never paused to consider why the government has never demonstrated any evidence of this. It grows the economy, of course, in that more people means a bigger economy. But that doesn't mean it improves things for people here. The real reason for immigration is political advantage to the party in power, with an added bonus for business that it provides cheap, malleable labour and helps suppress wages.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 14, 2018, 10:58:26 am
5. If the reasons for bringing immigrants to Canada in the first place (humanitarianism, economic self-interest etc.) are to be debated anyway, then why not establish those points before you get into the details of the argument ?

quite naturally member Argus reveled in pumping-up Trump's racist shytehole narrative - you know, the one that speaks to the inferiority of 'brown/black folks' originating from his declared shyteholes. The broad-based Argus targeting presumes to mask his own long-established year-upon-year immigrant bashing that has no fundamental regard for humanitarianism and/or family reunification and couches his own racism in economic posture... in this particular case latching on to yet another of his reliances upon a failed data source. The replacement voluntary based NHS data resulting from the Harper Conservative scuttling of the long-form census has no legitimacy - for the reasons already spoken to. Clearly, highlighting the pattern of this Argus reliance on shytehole data sources is relevant... a pattern observed many times over on 'the other board' and most recently on display here with healthcare related Fraser Institute data/analysis. Calling out these failed data sources is most troubling for someone so ensconced in narratives that simply can't be legitimately derived from shytehole data.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 14, 2018, 10:59:59 am
Fine.  Can't we find another source ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 14, 2018, 11:07:48 am
Fine.  Can't we find another source ?

uhhh... another source to support the pumping up of the Trumpian shytehole narrative? Why that requires the pumper to accept that narrative for its inherent racist bent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 14, 2018, 11:48:28 am
Because in general they lack the educational, communication, cultural and skill requirements. There isn't even much in the way of public education in Haiti, for example. Almost all schools are privately run by various foreign charities.

...

You know that's been tried. But government has been making mouth noises for so long about how immigration helps the economy most people have never paused to consider why the government has never demonstrated any evidence of this. It grows the economy, of course, in that more people means a bigger economy. But that doesn't mean it improves things for people here. The real reason for immigration is political advantage to the party in power, with an added bonus for business that it provides cheap, malleable labour and helps suppress wages.

I don't think immigrants are brought here to be "economically successful", I think that for the most part immigration is being used primarily to provide cheap low-skilled workers for a variety of industries.  I think the industries that need low-skilled laborers would be very disappointed if the average immigrant came here and started earning as much as the average Canadian.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 14, 2018, 03:12:59 pm
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-house-struggles-with-muting-function-on-iran-conference-call-with-reporters/

I don't really believe the story but it's funny.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 14, 2018, 09:50:52 pm
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-house-struggles-with-muting-function-on-iran-conference-call-with-reporters/

I don't really believe the story but it's funny.

If it was any other adminstration I would agree but with this one, it is entirely plausible.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 15, 2018, 11:15:46 am
quite naturally member Argus reveled in pumping-up Trump's racist shytehole narrative -

I just pointed our reality, which clearly offends you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 15, 2018, 11:22:17 am
I don't think immigrants are brought here to be "economically successful", I think that for the most part immigration is being used primarily to provide cheap low-skilled workers for a variety of industries.  I think the industries that need low-skilled laborers would be very disappointed if the average immigrant came here and started earning as much as the average Canadian.

 -k

It's twofold. Yes, business supports big immigration in order to provide a vast pool of desperate, malleable workers at low wages. The Left, meanwhile, supports immigration because immigrants are mostly brown, and much of the Left is paternalistically racist. Meanwhile, all the politicians can see is that a large proportion of immigrants, especially those from places without much cultural background in democracy, vote for whatever party is in power which 'let them in'.

It's much like the ongoing problems of the southern US border. The fact illegal migrants have been flooding across that border for decades has angered ordinary Americans for a very long time. But the Republicans, responding to business, kept finding excuses not to do anything while the Democrats, delighted at bringing in more minorities, who, they presume, will vote Democrat, also made excuses. Along comes a goof like Trump who says he's going to build a wall and people are thrilled.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 15, 2018, 11:54:37 am
Most of the Europeans (including Norwegians) who immigrated during the 19th and 20th centuries came from the least skilled and poorest segments of society. Even the most talented Irish went to England and other European countries to advance themselves, not North America. Nothing has really changed except their colour.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/01/12/577673191/trump-wishes-we-had-more-immigrants-from-norway-turns-out-we-once-did
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 15, 2018, 02:13:13 pm
Most of the Europeans (including Norwegians) who immigrated during the 19th and 20th centuries came from the least skilled and poorest segments of society. Even the most talented Irish went to England and other European countries to advance themselves, not North America. Nothing has really changed except their colour.

And at the time we had a great need for strong backs, for people to farm, fish and lumber. No language skills required, no particular skills of any kind required, just the ability and willingness to work hard.

What's that? You don't want to work hard? Starve. There are no social services here.

Things are not quite like that any more. MUCH has changed. We do not need labourers. And even farming, fishing and lumbering is high tech now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 15, 2018, 02:14:22 pm
Things are not quite like that any more. MUCH has changed.

Has it?  We don't need cheap labour to fill service positions?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 15, 2018, 02:15:29 pm
Has it?  We don't need cheap labour to fill service positions?

No, we don't. Have you completely missed the discussion about the fact government imports of unskilled workers, including the TFWs artificially suppresses market mechanism for making those jobs more attractive to workers by raising the wages?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 15, 2018, 02:16:52 pm
No, we don't. Have you completely missed the discussion about the fact government imports of unskilled workers, including the TFWs artificially suppresses market mechanism for making those jobs more attractive to workers by raising the wages?

Aren't you one of those people against raising the lowest wages to a living wage?  Do you deny that Canada has near full employment and a shortage of (willing, anyway) labour of all kinds?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 15, 2018, 02:18:28 pm
Aren't you one of those people against raising the lowest wages to a living wage?  Do you deny that Canada has near full employment and a shortage of (willing, anyway) labour of all kinds?

Do you want me to cut and paste the answer I gave about this on the tim Horton's thread?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 15, 2018, 04:40:18 pm
Try getting reliable full time farm workers at twice the minimum wage.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 15, 2018, 05:10:12 pm
Do you want me to cut and paste the answer I gave about this on the tim Horton's thread?

Go ahead - then I can pick it apart here.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 16, 2018, 09:40:16 am
Try getting reliable full time farm workers at twice the minimum wage.

I think hosting migrant farm workers for a couple of months a year is considerably different from bringing in workers on a semi-permanent basis to address cronic structural problems in the labor market.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 16, 2018, 09:51:31 am
Go ahead - then I can pick it apart here.

Why don't you pick it apart there?

Basically, I believe Capitalism produces a very good way to ration workers among various jobs and industries. Leave it the **** alone and you don't see a lot of jobs going empty. Can't find new workers for your fast food restaurant/bar/helicopter service? Well then, raise wages to attract more workers. Your competitors will have to do the same, after all. So it's all good. And if those raises require you all to raise prices - which means fewer customers, that's okay too. The better of you will survive until demand and supply are in balance.

On the one hand, government depresses the value of labour by importing masses of unneeded immigrants and allowing in masses of TFWs, and then on the other raises minimum wages beyond all economic necessity, which distorts the entire system. Raising the minimum wage drastically (I have never opposed minor raises in keeping with inflation) will force not only all those who pay minimum wages to increase their wages by 20% or more but all those who have workers who heretofore had more skilled workers earning $15hr to raise THEIR wages by 20% or so, too, and so on. This makes our labour more costly as compared to our world competition and also causes price inflation which eats up most of the increases anyway. It is also, at heart, nothing more than socialist wealth redistribution, which I oppose for a variety of reasons, and which interferes with Capitalist systems which encourage workers to obtain new and better and more marketable skills in order to gain higher pay.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 16, 2018, 10:03:37 am
Try getting reliable full time farm workers at twice the minimum wage.

If the jobs were permanent then in an ideal society a government bureaucrat would tell a healthy young person applying for welfare or pogey "Hey, there are farm labour jobs paying $30 hr out in the country. Here's a bus ticket and an address." But they're not permanent, which means most of the unemployed who are urban, can't just decide to go live in the countryside to take them. And they certainly can't commute. So I don't mind temp agricultural workers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 16, 2018, 11:09:12 am
If the jobs were permanent then in an ideal society a government bureaucrat would tell a healthy young person applying for welfare or pogey "Hey, there are farm labour jobs paying $30 hr out in the country. Here's a bus ticket and an address." But they're not permanent, which means most of the unemployed who are urban, can't just decide to go live in the countryside to take them. And they certainly can't commute. So I don't mind temp agricultural workers.

Quite a few agricultural jobs are permanent. Things like dairy farming and other farming involving animals as well as green houses are 365 operations. Trouble is, a lot of them involve hard physical work.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 16, 2018, 01:50:42 pm
Trump just lied through his **** teeth....again! Addressing some women's issues thing (I wasn't paying attention until Trump came to speak) anyway he completely abandoned the topic of the moment and went off to say he had never gone bankrupt and had always paid his loans back to the banks. How does he get away with this horseshit?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 16, 2018, 06:06:05 pm
Michael Che on SNL: "The 4th biggest news story of the week is '**** Star Blackmails President'.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/16/media/fox-news-stormy-daniels-trump/index.html

CNN says Fox killed the story.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 16, 2018, 08:33:05 pm
Trump just lied through his **** teeth....again! Addressing some women's issues thing (I wasn't paying attention until Trump came to speak) anyway he completely abandoned the topic of the moment and went off to say he had never gone bankrupt and had always paid his loans back to the banks. How does he get away with this horseshit?

He might be technically correct. I don't think he's gone bankrupt personally. His companies have gone bankrupt a number of times, but not him personally.
Of course, he's still lying in spirit, and if he always paid his loans to the bank he wouldn't have to go overseas for loans.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 17, 2018, 09:35:27 am
A new conspiracy theory is sweeping the land!    Obama had the Birthers, and now Trump has ... the Girthers!

The results of Trump's physical have been released, and the item that has caught many people's eye is his listed height and weight-- 6'3 and 239 pounds. People have noted that he's previously been listed at 6'2, and that he looks way too wide to be 239 pounds.  The height question is raised by a photograph in which Trump stands side-by-side with 6'1 Barack Obama, who appears to be equally tall, not 2 inches shorter.  The extra inch of height moves Trump's body mass index from "obese" to just really fat. And others are posting pictures of Trump's marshmellowy physique in contrast to others who are roughly the same height and weight, like Colin Kaepernick.  In fairness, muscle is much denser than fat, so Kaepernick's chiseled physique is a poor comparison to Trump's lardy form.

This conspiracy theory is at least as fascinating as last year's "Fake Melania" conspiracy. Perhaps the Pizzagaters will be motivated to grab their AR-15s and do some "independent investigation".

http://theweek.com/speedreads/749127/girthers-arent-buying-trumps-official-weight-height

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 17, 2018, 09:39:32 am
Here's the cognitive assessment that Trump aced.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/1/16/16899150/trump-montreal-cognitive-assement-ronny-jackson


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 18, 2018, 06:07:58 am
The fat thing is WAY low on the list, even below the **** star blackmail.

He is settling into the pattern we will likely see: 4 years of do-nothing blowhardism, supported by a base and a party machine trying to get something out of it.  Truly the last season of this once-great series.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on January 19, 2018, 12:27:45 pm
As  I have tried to advise Donald Trump died and was replaced with a shapeshifting Draco hybrid as was his whole family. So what you see is a projected hologram. Dracos or Virdis depending on what you would like to call them are usually around 8 feet and 250 pounds at maturity and can leave quite some time.

http://brobible.com/life/article/donald-trump-killed-illuminati-clone-family/

https://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/316523/youtube-conspiracy-theory-trump-dead-we-elected-clone/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7vnaXsxgik

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61nqGH0_pbE
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on January 19, 2018, 12:36:25 pm
I think I appreciated the 10,000 word expositions better than this.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 20, 2018, 12:23:20 am
Trump whines that the US government shutdown means that he might miss his party.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-whines-shutdown-fight-could-make-me-miss-my-party
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on January 20, 2018, 12:10:10 pm
I think I appreciated the 10,000 word expositions better than this.

You need to make up our mind.I  thought given what you said, pictures would be  easier for you to understand.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on January 20, 2018, 12:38:57 pm
Explain this:

(1) The Trumps own 666 Fifth Avenue.
(2) The Trumps paid $1.8 billion for the 666 tower. 18 = 3*6 = 666.
(3) The Trumps BUILT A $666 million tower at One Journal Square with a  height will be 666 feet.
(4) The famous Trump Tower is 203 meters tall according to multiple reports. And 203 meters = 666 feet. The Trumps live on the 66th floor.
(5) Donald Trump inherited his grandmother's real estate empire when she died on June 6, 1966 = 6-6-6. Her name was Elizabeth Christ Trump.
(6) In the first year of Trump's presidency, fiscal year 2017, the budget deficit went up to 666 billion dollars.
(7) Donald Trump's name equates to 666 in Jewish gematria, English gematria, and ASCII computer code. There are details below.
(8) Trump was at the top of the popularity  polls on June 6, 2015 = 6+6+(1+5) = 666.
(9) Trump announced his candidacy for president on June 16, 2015 = 6+(1*6)+(1+5) = 666.
(10)On the Ides of March, he had 666 delegates.
(11)There was a total lunar eclipse (blood mooon) on the day Donald Trump was born (June 14, 1946).
(12)Trump's first fentry into politics was announced in a 1986 New York Times article dated 6-6-6.
(13)According to Trump himself, the critical first political meeting with New York City officials took place on 6-6-6 in his office.
(14)The Trump SoHo Hotel Condominium, was announced on The Apprentice on June 6, 2016 = 6-6-6.
(15) The oly t.v. station supporting Donald Trump's candidacy was the Fox networkand the letters in "Fox" (6+15+24) add up to 666.
(16) In a Heidi Klum video in which she responds to Trump's sexist remark that she is no longer a ten, Klum was wearing a t-shirt with the number 9.99.
(17)The Sex and the City pilot  aired 6-6-1998 (1998=666+666+666), Mr. Big is based on Donald Trump, and Samantha callrd Mr. Big a "young Donald Trump" on that pilot.




Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on January 20, 2018, 12:39:14 pm
You need to make up our mind.I  thought given what you said, pictures would be  easier for you to understand.
Just because I find your posts tedious, doesn't mean I don't understand what you're saying.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 21, 2018, 02:15:36 am
Explain this:

(1) The Trumps own 666 Fifth Avenue.
(2) The Trumps paid $1.8 billion for the 666 tower. 18 = 3*6 = 666.
(3) The Trumps BUILT A $666 million tower at One Journal Square with a  height will be 666 feet.
(4) The famous Trump Tower is 203 meters tall according to multiple reports. And 203 meters = 666 feet. The Trumps live on the 66th floor.
(5) Donald Trump inherited his grandmother's real estate empire when she died on June 6, 1966 = 6-6-6. Her name was Elizabeth Christ Trump.
(6) In the first year of Trump's presidency, fiscal year 2017, the budget deficit went up to 666 billion dollars.
(7) Donald Trump's name equates to 666 in Jewish gematria, English gematria, and ASCII computer code. There are details below.
(8) Trump was at the top of the popularity  polls on June 6, 2015 = 6+6+(1+5) = 666.
(9) Trump announced his candidacy for president on June 16, 2015 = 6+(1*6)+(1+5) = 666.
(10)On the Ides of March, he had 666 delegates.
(11)There was a total lunar eclipse (blood mooon) on the day Donald Trump was born (June 14, 1946).
(12)Trump's first fentry into politics was announced in a 1986 New York Times article dated 6-6-6.
(13)According to Trump himself, the critical first political meeting with New York City officials took place on 6-6-6 in his office.
(14)The Trump SoHo Hotel Condominium, was announced on The Apprentice on June 6, 2016 = 6-6-6.
(15) The oly t.v. station supporting Donald Trump's candidacy was the Fox networkand the letters in "Fox" (6+15+24) add up to 666.
(16) In a Heidi Klum video in which she responds to Trump's sexist remark that she is no longer a ten, Klum was wearing a t-shirt with the number 9.99.
(17)The Sex and the City pilot  aired 6-6-1998 (1998=666+666+666), Mr. Big is based on Donald Trump, and Samantha callrd Mr. Big a "young Donald Trump" on that pilot.

Oh god I bet you thinkg the twin towers was an inside job too eh?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2018, 09:23:07 am
Someone had far to much idle time on their hands.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 22, 2018, 08:25:23 pm
Has there ever been a more irritating, gum flapping, stunned **** employed as a government spokesperson than Kelly Anne Conway? I realize Sarah Sanders is close, but at least in her position she has to at least listen to questions before she trots out whatever horse **** her boss has ordered her to spew for the day, so therefore can't simply endlessly gum flap so no one can hear anything until the clock runs out. I assume they are paid well to seel their souls.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 23, 2018, 02:11:20 am
Explain this:

(1) The Trumps own 666 Fifth Avenue.
(2) The Trumps paid $1.8 billion for the 666 tower. 18 = 3*6 = 666.
(3) The Trumps BUILT A $666 million tower at One Journal Square with a  height will be 666 feet.
(4) The famous Trump Tower is 203 meters tall according to multiple reports. And 203 meters = 666 feet. The Trumps live on the 66th floor.
(5) Donald Trump inherited his grandmother's real estate empire when she died on June 6, 1966 = 6-6-6. Her name was Elizabeth Christ Trump.
(6) In the first year of Trump's presidency, fiscal year 2017, the budget deficit went up to 666 billion dollars.
(7) Donald Trump's name equates to 666 in Jewish gematria, English gematria, and ASCII computer code. There are details below.
(8) Trump was at the top of the popularity  polls on June 6, 2015 = 6+6+(1+5) = 666.
(9) Trump announced his candidacy for president on June 16, 2015 = 6+(1*6)+(1+5) = 666.
(10)On the Ides of March, he had 666 delegates.
(11)There was a total lunar eclipse (blood mooon) on the day Donald Trump was born (June 14, 1946).
(12)Trump's first fentry into politics was announced in a 1986 New York Times article dated 6-6-6.
(13)According to Trump himself, the critical first political meeting with New York City officials took place on 6-6-6 in his office.
(14)The Trump SoHo Hotel Condominium, was announced on The Apprentice on June 6, 2016 = 6-6-6.
(15) The oly t.v. station supporting Donald Trump's candidacy was the Fox networkand the letters in "Fox" (6+15+24) add up to 666.
(16) In a Heidi Klum video in which she responds to Trump's sexist remark that she is no longer a ten, Klum was wearing a t-shirt with the number 9.99.
(17)The Sex and the City pilot  aired 6-6-1998 (1998=666+666+666), Mr. Big is based on Donald Trump, and Samantha callrd Mr. Big a "young Donald Trump" on that pilot.

This is obviously someone else’s original material - please supply a citation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 23, 2018, 05:19:01 am
"I am the very model of a modish model moderator...."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 25, 2018, 08:20:00 pm
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/us/politics/trump-mueller-special-counsel-russia.html
He tried to fire Mueller in June.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 29, 2018, 06:06:33 pm
If ever there was a story of what a ****-stain Trump is it would be with regard to a story I heard tonight on the news regarding former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe. McCabe's wife had run for a state office as a Democrat at one time, and was given money by a PAC controlled by a friend of Hillary Clinton. Anyway, after Trump fired Comey while he was on an official visit to LA, he became enraged when he saw a shot of Comey getting back into his FBI plane to fly back home. He felt he shouldn't have been allowed to use any government services from that point on, and called McCabe, who had become acting director to demand why. McCabe told him he hadn't been asked to authorize it, but if he had been he would have. Trump then asked him to ask his wife what it's like to be a loser before hanging up.

Encapsulated in that is the fact Trump didn't have the balls to fire the director or the FBI to his face, but had an underling bring notice to the FBI while he knew he was on the other side of the country. Then that's he's such a petty, vindictive man he got angry because his hope of, I guess having Comey have to hitchhike home didn't come to fruition, he calls McCabe to harangue him, then insults his wife, which shows what a low class punk he is.

Long noted about Trump is his willingness to insult people from a distance. In person he tends to then become servile to those same people, ie, the president of Mexico or China or the Saudi King. Trump wouldn't dare fire Comey face to face because he's a chickenshit coward. Just like he'd insult an underling's wife over the phone but never in person for fear of winding up on his fat ass.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on January 29, 2018, 07:55:07 pm
This is obviously someone else’s original material - please supply a citation.
But the data has no basis in reality and the contributor is prone to typing. I would disagree on the "obviously."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 29, 2018, 09:20:09 pm
If ever there was a story of what a ****-stain Trump is it would be with regard to a story I heard tonight on the news regarding former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe. McCabe's wife had run for a state office as a Democrat at one time, and was given money by a PAC controlled by a friend of Hillary Clinton. Anyway, after Trump fired Mueller while he was on an official visit to LA, he became enraged when he saw a shot of Mueller getting back into his FBI plane to fly back home. He felt he shouldn't have been allowed to use any government services from that point on, and called McCabe, who had become acting director to demand why. McCabe told him he hadn't been asked to authorize it, but if he had been he would have. Trump then asked him to ask his wife what it's like to be a loser before hanging up.

Encapsulated in that is the fact Trump didn't have the balls to fire the director or the FBI to his face, but had an underling bring notice to the FBi while he knew he was on the other side of the country. Then that's he's such a petty, vindictive man he got angry because his hope of, I guess having Comey have to hitchike home didn't come to fruition, he calls McCabe to harrangue him, then insults his wife, which shows what a low class punk he is.

Long noted about Trump is his willingness to insult people from a distance. In person he tends to then become servile to those same people, ie, the president of Mexico or China or the Saudi King. Trump wouldn't dare fire Comey face to face because he's a chickenshit coward. Just like he'd insult an underling's wife over the phone but never in person for fear of winding up on his fat ass.

I think perhaps you are confused as to who Trump fired while they were in LA. Comey, not Mueller.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 30, 2018, 08:39:45 pm
Sooooo ... can this senile old fool read a teleprompter for an hour without making a complete fool himself?

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 30, 2018, 08:44:22 pm
He is such an annoying little **** ant in so many ways, but especially whilst he claps for himself after each little teleprompter statement.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 30, 2018, 08:55:50 pm
If ever there was a story of what a ****-stain Trump is it would be with regard to a story I heard tonight on the news regarding former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe.

I'm not even surprised. At some point he himself said that he's still the same person he was when he was in first grade.

During the election I read a story from Ivanna (his first wife, mother of Ivanka) about a time when the went skiing in Aspen. They had a race down a run, and she won, and Donald took off his skis and went back to the lodge and wouldn't speak to her for the rest of the day.

He is just an overgrown toddler.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 31, 2018, 05:17:37 am
I'm still trying to figure out why or maybe whether political dialogue is declining.  Sometimes I will mention in a post that it just is, forgetting that I haven't solved this in my mind.  Other times I ask if it is.   I feel like post-WW2 politics was compartmentalized and a stellar economy and relative peace quieted things. 

This is related to the post because I don't know if the Donald is another Andrew Jackson, or something that needs to be mitigated against... a precursor to a Pinochet or maybe a Pinochet himself.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on January 31, 2018, 09:12:43 am
Trump is not an Andrew Jackson because Trump has no principles other than enriching himself and gratifying his ego.

I am not convinced that dialog was less polarized in the past. The only difference is mass communication has turned the volume up to 11.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 31, 2018, 09:38:27 am
... a precursor to a Pinochet or maybe a Pinochet himself.

or... il duce!
(https://i.imgur.com/7ShUnRN.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 31, 2018, 10:57:13 am
I had to roll my eyes a few times during his SOTU speech, especially when he got into immigration issues. His misrepresentations of "chain migration" and the migration "lottery" were quite glaring. I guess he is trying to drum up as much support as he can for his friggin wall. I imagine the 35-40% of his base supporters will buy the BS, and the wall.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on January 31, 2018, 10:57:35 am
When Paul Ryan says the FBI needs to be “cleansed” and Trump asks Congress for sweeping powers to purge government departments, including and especially  the DOJ, you’ve got to look at this as the fork in the road. Some of the worst tyrants in history were democratically elected then proceeded to erode institutions over time. They didn’t seize power overnight. These moves should be alarming to anyone who gives a crap about the rule of law.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on January 31, 2018, 11:04:30 am
When Paul Ryan says the FBI needs to be “cleansed” and Trump asks Congress for sweeping powers to purge government departments, including and especially  the DOJ, you’ve got to look at this as the fork in the road. Some of the worst tyrants in history were democratically elected then proceeded to erode institutions over time. They didn’t seize power overnight. These moves should be alarming to anyone who gives a crap about the rule of law.

I never heard the Ryan comment, but I do remember doing a double take at the government departments comment from Trump.  It was startling, to be sure.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 31, 2018, 11:11:44 am
1. Trump is not an Andrew Jackson because Trump has no principles other than enriching himself and gratifying his ego.

2. I am not convinced that dialog was less polarized in the past. The only difference is mass communication has turned the volume up to 11.

1. Wow.  Reveals knowledge of history.  LIKES.

2. We are in a transition from mass communication back to point to point.  Stand by.



Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 31, 2018, 11:13:27 am
Trump seems to have been fairly successful at creating a very serious divide between the two main governing party's in the US. That makes room for him and his form of "government" to come right up through the center so his base can keep him in power while he works toward gutting all of the checks and balances procedures that are currently in place. Scary ain't it! 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on January 31, 2018, 11:22:11 am
I never heard the Ryan comment, but I do remember doing a double take at the government departments comment from Trump.  It was startling, to be sure.
The trouble is some individuals in the FBI have been outed for "going easy" on Clinton over the emails. This has given ammunition to Trumpettes who want to allege widespread collusion in order to undermine the current Russia investigation. It is dangerous move that needs to be stopped.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 31, 2018, 01:30:18 pm
The trouble is some individuals in the FBI have been outed for "going easy" on Clinton over the emails.

lots of related accusations by Trump/Trumpkins... beyond that care to cite the outees and your "some individuals"? There's an ongoing IG investigation but, as I'm aware, no leaks from the related report have come forward...

in any case, Clinton emails and the FBI investigation of, has nothing to do with the active profiled 'kerfuffle' over the Nunes memo. Oh wait, there is one commonality: for all the claims of Clinton mishandling classified info in regards "her emails", there now is Nunes choosing to (according to the U.S. Justice dept & FBI) make false/misleading allegations while putting classified info/detail into public purview. The most telling point is that Nunes has not been privy to the actual related classified info he's basing his allegations on... and that's because he's lost that level of clearance to allow him to do so - lost in relation to his earlier failed effort to carry water for Trump/White House.

and, of course, Trump is eager to release the Nunes memo - simply to add to his ongoing attacks against the U.S. Intelligence community.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 31, 2018, 01:46:26 pm
One has to wonder what the end game will be when politicians deliberately undermine the nation's law enforcement agencies for political reasons. Do they know what they are about and have a plan or are they just plain idiots. I used to be an admirer of the US system and its necessity for compromise but every day it is looking more like one with feet of clay. Hope I'm wrong.

Wow, post #666. Could that be an omen?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on January 31, 2018, 01:46:35 pm
I don't think they'll release the memo because apparently if they do there would be a sudden burst of leaks from within the DOJ in order to get the whole story out, not just the cherry-picked parts of the memo. They're better off not releasing it and letting people imagine for themselves what it says.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on January 31, 2018, 01:57:42 pm
One has to wonder what the end game will be when politicians deliberately undermine the nation's law enforcement agencies for political reasons. Do they know what they are about and have a plan or are they just plain idiots. I used to be an admirer of the US system and its necessity for compromise but every day it is looking more like one with feet of clay. Hope I'm wrong.

Wow, post #666. Could that be an omen?
I'm pretty sure Trump hasn't thought that deeply about it (or anything else in his life). Think of him like an animal. He feels attacked by the judiciary and so he thinks he's defending himself by fighting back. He's literally that simple: "They're attacking me, so I should attack them." It's the same with the media. Meanwhile, back on planet reality, the judiciary's job is to be a balance of power. They're supposed to oppose the executive when they do things that are unconstitutional or illegal. They're supposed to investigate when there's indication that illegal and unethical things may be happening. It's called accountability and Trump has never had to be accountable for anything ever. His multiple divorces show that he has absolutely zero sense of accountability, even to an intimate partner he promised to honour for life.

So when you wonder what they're thinking when they don't account for the ramifications of what they're doing, the answer is, in Trump's case, that he's not thinking about the ramifications. They don't matter to him. All that matters to Trump is the basest emotions and instincts. He feels attacked and reacts. That's it. He doesn't think.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 31, 2018, 02:13:39 pm
I'm pretty sure Trump hasn't thought that deeply about it (or anything else in his life). Think of him like an animal. He feels attacked by the judiciary and so he thinks he's defending himself by fighting back. He's literally that simple: "They're attacking me, so I should attack them." It's the same with the media. Meanwhile, back on planet reality, the judiciary's job is to be a balance of power. They're supposed to oppose the executive when they do things that are unconstitutional or illegal. They're supposed to investigate when there's indication that illegal and unethical things may be happening. It's called accountability and Trump has never had to be accountable for anything ever. His multiple divorces show that he has absolutely zero sense of accountability, even to an intimate partner he promised to honour for life.

So when you wonder what they're thinking when they don't account for the ramifications of what they're doing, the answer is, in Trump's case, that he's not thinking about the ramifications. They don't matter to him. All that matters to Trump is the basest emotions and instincts. He feels attacked and reacts. That's it. He doesn't think.

I wasn't thinking about Trump, he is a lost cause. I was thinking more of the likes of Ryan, McConnell and many other Republicans.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 31, 2018, 02:19:25 pm
The trouble is some individuals in the FBI have been outed for "going easy" on Clinton over the emails. This has given ammunition to Trumpettes who want to allege widespread collusion in order to undermine the current Russia investigation. It is dangerous move that needs to be stopped.

Going easy in what way? My understanding is that something like .01% of those emails were classified in some way and so shouldn't have been on a non-secure server. But it's extremely rare that anyone is ever prosecuted for inadvertently doing something, for carelessness. Excluding the military. I don't believe anyone has ever been prosecuted for inadvertently sending out a classified email on a non-secure server - presuming you can say the State Department's servers are secure, which you can't since they were hacked a few years back.

There's also the famous "text messages" which the Trumpites have seized upon as if the very idea that public servants would mock a political candidate or a president was horrifying. Trump was undoubtedly sneered at, mocked and insulted by tens of thousands of public servants all over the federal government before, during and after the election, just as Obama was, just as Bush was, just as Clinton was, just a Lincoln was. So what?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 31, 2018, 02:20:42 pm
I don't think they'll release the memo because apparently if they do there would be a sudden burst of leaks from within the DOJ in order to get the whole story out, not just the cherry-picked parts of the memo. They're better off not releasing it and letting people imagine for themselves what it says.

Trump has already said he'll release it, and I don't think he has a mind capable of considering things like that. Certainly for all his sniveling about the possible release of mildly classified emails he shows zero concern about releasing information the Justice Department said is classified.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 31, 2018, 02:22:57 pm
One has to wonder what the end game will be when politicians deliberately undermine the nation's law enforcement agencies for political reasons. Do they know what they are about and have a plan or are they just plain idiots.

Their world moves in 4 and 6 year increments. Nothing going past their next election date exists nor matters.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 31, 2018, 02:24:30 pm
I wasn't thinking about Trump, he is a lost cause. I was thinking more of the likes of Ryan, McConnell and many other Republicans.

Nunes has his head jammed so deep up between Trump's buttocks every time he opens his mouth Trump's farts come out.
McConnell and Ryan care about nothing but winning, and to them that means not defying their 'base' which is still in love with Trump because FOX tells them he's an amazing businessman and Christian, and busy 'draining the swamp'.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on January 31, 2018, 03:00:26 pm
I wasn't thinking about Trump, he is a lost cause. I was thinking more of the likes of Ryan, McConnell and many other Republicans.
Again, they don’t think. It’s about maintaining power at all costs. It’s reactionary, not something they think through.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on January 31, 2018, 03:57:58 pm
There's also the famous "text messages" which the Trumpites have seized upon as if the very idea that public servants would mock a political candidate or a president was horrifying. Trump was undoubtedly sneered at, mocked and insulted by tens of thousands of public servants all over the federal government before, during and after the election, just as Obama was, just as Bush was, just as Clinton was, just a Lincoln was. So what?
You make a good point. I frequent trumpette blogs to try to under their POV and when I thought the emails showed concerning bias but on second thought it really does not make sense to expect people to be bias free in what they believed were private conversations. Everyone has bias - what is important is being able to set it aside when one's job requires neutrality.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on January 31, 2018, 04:05:05 pm
Trump is not an Andrew Jackson because Trump has no principles other than enriching himself and gratifying his ego.

I am not convinced that dialog was less polarized in the past. The only difference is mass communication has turned the volume up to 11.

100% agree. There you were do for a thumbs up. All yer righteous crap on Pat Brown was getting to my gonads. Stick to Trump. Any way one slices it, he comes up rotten.

It  is one ego trip for sure and that is maybe typical of all politicians but with him it seems to overwhelm his every moment.

However I wonder if when the doors are closed and no one is watching him he is different. Maybe his wife has him reduced to a quivering jello boy in diapers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 31, 2018, 06:54:06 pm
Has it?  We don't need cheap labour to fill service positions?

Why do we need this????  There's a ton of high school and university students out there who would like to pay their way through school. There's older folks who lost their job & aren't very employable, single moms & divorced former housewives who need to now feed their kids, and there's your group of generally less-educated adults with no useful post-secondary degrees looking for any job they can live off of.

The market is based on supply & demand. If there's a demand for low-skill jobs, and supply isn't large, then wages rise to a level that will attract them.  Increasing the supply of low-skilled workers will lower wages, this is economics 101. If McDonald's wages rose to $20 because nobody wanted to do it, then they'd start finding workers at that wage.  Prices for a Big Mac might rise too, but only to a level that could be competitively sustained vs other burger joints.

The only reason we (Canada) should NEED the large amount of immigrants we bring in is to sustain our population.  If we don't, consumption will decrease, production will decrease, & overall GDP will too. Not good for the TSX & overall investment in Canada.  The way stock markets work under capitalism now, unfortunately, needs continual growth to attract & maintain investors.  The invisible hand will largely take care of skill shortages, & rising wages will convince young people to enter fields with shortages.  As long as we need immigrants, it only makes sense to take in the most educated/skilled & that's how our system works now in most cases, though certainly not all & there are humanitarian reasons to bring in some if they're fit to live here.

If there's a CRITICAL need for certain labour that can't be trained quickly enough to properly address the problem, then TFW is fine.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 31, 2018, 07:28:31 pm
Trump has a silly ego, he's so stubborn & spoiled & indignant that a lot of things he's says & does look childish, but I generally believe he's doing what HE thinks is best for the USA.  His mindset of what is "good" is very 1980's.  I don't agree with the way he does things or often says things, he's a liar & a crook, & his admin is a joke, but there's policies of his that are very different than most of the politicians before him & that I think some are a step in the right direction, flawed they may be. 

Things like trade and immigration policy largely should be for the interests of Americans & the country first, with humanitarian considerations in matters of life & death.  I don't agree with how he's handled immigration, but the borders do need to be secured by whatever means are most effective & law & order established.  With illegal immigrants, it's a serious matter.  These people jumped the cue, and (unless children at the time) knowingly broke the law by entering/staying illegally.  They're criminals, & they're criminals again when they work illegally & again if don't file the proper taxes, as are the businesses that pay them illegally & don't pay the proper taxes. If you want a better life, send in your immigration application & get in line like all the people who do it the honest & legal way, & allow these illegals to do so too.

With DACA, many of these kids would be great assets to the US, it's not their fault they're in the US, & it only makes sense to give them citizenship if they meet the criteria.  If they don't, the US government shouldn't be seen as the bad guy if they need to deport to Mexico etc, their parents should be blamed for breaking the law in the first place & not immigrating legally.  If their kids' lives are ruined, it's 100% their parents fault.  If a kid as brought in illegally, & he's unfit to stay (criminality, very poor education prospects etc) then they should be deported, sad as it is. Why should a country pay the price of keeping an undesirable immigrant who is a net drain on society simply to spare feelings in a situation which is entirely the parents' fault?

And if law & order is attained, you'll see a decrease in attempts at illegal immigration because the same payoff won't exist.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 31, 2018, 07:30:41 pm
As per the State of the Union, I don't see the need for another nuclear arms buildup, US seems to have a very capable military apparatus for defense.  Giving credit to himself for the economy is ridiculous.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on January 31, 2018, 08:48:44 pm
Trump has a silly ego, he's so stubborn & spoiled & indignant that a lot of things he's says & does look childish, but I generally believe he's doing what HE thinks is best for the USA.

I have no such confidence. I think Trump does what he thinks is best for Trump, first last and always. He wants applause and adulation. His base gives him that so he will do whatever he thinks will please them without regard to what harm or damage it does anyone else or his country.

Quote
Things like trade and immigration policy largely should be for the interests of Americans & the country first,

Trump's bleating about how the US always makes terrible trade deals is so much ignorant bullshit. The only people abusing their trade are the Chinese, and Trump isn't doing thing one about that.

Further, the NAFTA deal was partly political. Part of its aim was to build up Mexico's middle class to make the place more stable, and to decrease illegal immigration. It has succeeded in both of those goals. The last couple of years, more Mexicans have crossed the border heading south than north. Getting rid of Nafta would actually dramatically increase illegal immigration.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 31, 2018, 09:29:41 pm
I have no such confidence. I think Trump does what he thinks is best for Trump, first last and always. He wants applause and adulation. His base gives him that so he will do whatever he thinks will please them without regard to what harm or damage it does anyone else or his country.

So you don't think he cares at all about America?  Personally I don't think he cares much what anyone thinks about what he says or does, even his "base".  When he started yapping when he first entered the race it was pretty clear he wasn't trying to impress or please anyone & just said what he thought, & what is now "his base" happened to like the straight shooting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 31, 2018, 11:43:02 pm
Considering he has been called out on in excess of 2000 lies, and since he flip flops continuously in his statements, I would be hard pressed to find any evidence of "straight shooting" or anything even close.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 01, 2018, 05:35:37 am
I want to be clear on one thing:

The person who would save us from gridlock LOOKS a lot like Trump, but would be able to see trade-offs, move past politics, communicate and unify people.  And she or he would have an actual vision.

I was holding out hope that Trump would actually put in people who could make change to entrenched institutions, to cause positive disruption but it turns out that he was as clueless as he appeared to be. 

My ideal leader would lock in the social and economic progressive ideas of the 20th century and would find ways to inspire and unleash economic growth while taking care of the most vulnerable.  It is possible.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 01, 2018, 07:26:21 am
Getting rid of Nafta would actually dramatically increase illegal immigration.
Good excuse for that wall.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 01, 2018, 09:25:22 am
Again, they don’t think. It’s about maintaining power at all costs. It’s reactionary, not something they think through.

I suspect Ryan and McConnell envision purging the government agencies and installing friendly, pliable puppets in key positions.  I doubt they envision this as part of a larger authoritarian agenda or consolidation of absolute power. I think they just want this because they're scared of what independent agencies are going to do to Trump and his accomplices. And as GOP members of the House and the Senate continue to make themselves accomplices, they're worried about their own hide.

So in short, yes. Protecting their own hides.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 01, 2018, 09:42:31 am
I suspect Ryan and McConnell envision purging the government agencies and installing friendly, pliable puppets in key positions.  I doubt they envision this as part of a larger authoritarian agenda or consolidation of absolute power. I think they just want this because they're scared of what independent agencies are going to do to Trump and his accomplices. And as GOP members of the House and the Senate continue to make themselves accomplices, they're worried about their own hide.

So in short, yes. Protecting their own hides.

 -k

Could they really be that stupid. If they can render the agencies that are there to ensure governments and politicians operate within the law, then anyone can. It’s been the route to many a dictatorship.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 01, 2018, 10:38:12 am
Could they really be that stupid.
Yes. How many examples do you need of their hypocrisy? If they do it, it's not a problem. If the Democrats do it, then it's wrong.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 01, 2018, 10:54:26 am
Yes. How many examples do you need of their hypocrisy? If they do it, it's not a problem. If the Democrats do it, then it's wrong.

By doing this they aren't reinforcing their own power, they are handing even more to Trump. They will make him unassailable because law enforcement will be incapable or unwilling to provide Congress with grounds to act against him. Idiots.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 01, 2018, 11:38:02 am
It’s not a problem for them because they’re not going to act against him. The probably had them bend the knee and they willing would because they’re sycophants.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on February 01, 2018, 11:42:39 am
So you don't think he cares at all about America?

Peripherally.

Quote
Personally I don't think he cares much what anyone thinks about what he says or does, even his "base".  When he started yapping when he first entered the race it was pretty clear he wasn't trying to impress or please anyone & just said what he thought, & what is now "his base" happened to like the straight shooting.

Uh no. Trump has been a  self-promoting huckster and salesman for decades, and a good one. He doesn't just 'say what he thinks' when he's trying to make a sale. He was asked, for example, whether that 'Mexicans are rapists and criminals so we're gonna build a wall' speech he gave right at the start of his candidacy was off the cuff and he admitted that no, he knew exactly what he was going to say before he got out on stage. That was PLANNED. It wasn't off the top of his head. He knew very well that huge numbers of Americans have been fed up over their porous southern border for decades and that demanding a wall would have a lot of appeal, especially among blue collar conservatives.

When he talks about how it's wrong to build stuff overseas or use illegals you think that's what he really thinks? We know he built all his stuff overseas and we knew he used illegals, so clearly not. When he talks about how much he cares about ordinary blue collar workers you think that's true? He's over 70 and never at any point in his life has he said a single thing about any care or concern with the poor or middle class. Suddenly you believe he's discovered their existence and really wants to help?

He's a snake oil salesman with a lot of experience in duping the naive.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 01, 2018, 12:55:30 pm
Luckily so far it seems he has only been able to dupe around 1/3 of the american voters. Hopefully much of his power will disintegrate come the mid terms.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 01, 2018, 02:08:43 pm
Uh no. Trump has been a  self-promoting huckster and salesman for decades, and a good one. He doesn't just 'say what he thinks' when he's trying to make a sale.

Have you considered the possibility that he's arguing mostly for policies & views he wants to occur, but uses constant lies instead of facts in order to convince people of their merit?  When he has a fight with someone on twitter, it's the same thing, he wants to humiliate & destroy them, & will exaggerate the claims.  It's still dirty salesman tactics, which I obviously agree he is.

Quote
He was asked, for example, whether that 'Mexicans are rapists and criminals so we're gonna build a wall' speech he gave right at the start of his candidacy was off the cuff and he admitted that no, he knew exactly what he was going to say before he got out on stage. That was PLANNED. It wasn't off the top of his head. He knew very well that huge numbers of Americans have been fed up over their porous southern border for decades and that demanding a wall would have a lot of appeal, especially among blue collar conservatives.

And you believe him when he said that?  "Oh yeah it was planned all along, see I'm so smart". 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 01, 2018, 02:17:59 pm
Trump has already said he'll release it, and I don't think he has a mind capable of considering things like that. Certainly for all his sniveling about the possible release of mildly classified emails he shows zero concern about releasing information the Justice Department said is classified.
Trump also said he would be happy to testify under oath. I may be wrong, but I think the memo is serving its purpose by never being released. I think releasing a few select tidbits to make the FBI/DOJ look bad would surely lead to a dam burst of leaks that set the record straight and destroy the Republican party.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on February 01, 2018, 03:00:32 pm
Have you considered the possibility that he's arguing mostly for policies & views he wants to occur,

I don't think Trump knows anything about policies, nor cares. From all accounts he won't listen to long briefings and won't read anything but press clippings about himself. One of the bankers during his bankruptcy negotiations said he'd never met a CEO who understood less about the figures being discussed, about how much he owed or made or what various alternatives were.

Similarly, I don't think he knows a thing about any of the policies except what someone tells him. He didn't understand the Health care repeal and pushed it until it failed, then he said it was mean, but of course, he got behind the next one, which he also didn't understand. I don't think he understands anything but that Obama made it so he wants to destroy it out of spite. Evidently Mitch McConnell said he'll sign anything they put in front of him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 01, 2018, 03:12:19 pm
Trump actually (at one point) said he would sign anything they put in front of him. But then he now wants an FBI memo released that he has, in his day, labelled the release of similar documents treasonous. He's like a duck in a shootin' gallery. The scary part is he seems intent on undermining the rule of law.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 02, 2018, 11:45:33 am
I can't even keep up anymore. I go to work and come home and there's easily a half dozen new things that would have buried literally any other presidency. This sideshow has gone on long enough.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 02, 2018, 12:14:28 pm
Well he has now released the "memo" to try and gut the Russia probe. Next he'll be after Rod Rosenstein so he can gut Mueller's investigation as well. Putin must be very happy with how his boy is running the presidency.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 02, 2018, 02:59:12 pm
So people are supposed to be outraged that they used the Steele dossier as part of the evidence towards getting a FISA warrant against Carter Page, who had already been under surveillance since 2013 when some Russian spies were recorded saying he was a paid Russian operative? And the Steele dossier is bad not because it has been proven to be inaccurate, but because after Republicans initiated it some Democrats helped fund it?
I guess technically you could say it helps prove that the FBI under the Obama administration used political research to justify surveillance of a political rival. But if there's a lot of credible evidence that the political rival is a Russian operative, I think most reasonable people would consider that surveillance to be justifiable.
It comes across as a last-ditch, O.J. Simpson-like, desperate attempt to discredit the police because they know they're going down and they have nothing to lose.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 02, 2018, 04:50:57 pm
I don't think Trump knows anything about policies, nor cares. From all accounts he won't listen to long briefings and won't read anything but press clippings about himself. One of the bankers during his bankruptcy negotiations said he'd never met a CEO who understood less about the figures being discussed, about how much he owed or made or what various alternatives were.

Similarly, I don't think he knows a thing about any of the policies except what someone tells him. He didn't understand the Health care repeal and pushed it until it failed, then he said it was mean, but of course, he got behind the next one, which he also didn't understand. I don't think he understands anything but that Obama made it so he wants to destroy it out of spite. Evidently Mitch McConnell said he'll sign anything they put in front of him.

Well I agree his understanding and attention span for policies is very, very limited, but I think he still believes they're the right course, which is of course the scary part.  For instance, he sees illegal immigration as a problem and his solution is "a wall" to keep them out.  Nothing more specific or nuanced, no research, no consultations, just "a wall".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 02, 2018, 05:09:53 pm
Well I agree his understanding and attention span for policies is very, very limited, but I think he still believes they're the right course, which is of course the scary part.  For instance, he sees illegal immigration as a problem and his solution is "a wall" to keep them out.  Nothing more specific or nuanced, no research, no consultations, just "a wall".

Yeah but it's going to be a "big beautiful wall". What more do you need to know?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 02, 2018, 07:11:06 pm
Well he has now released the "memo" to try and gut the Russia probe.

Seems like a big nothing.  We already knew most of this.  And Hannity is saying it's the biggest scandal in American history.

They can have their politics, I seem to be less interested the worse it gets.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 02, 2018, 08:09:13 pm
And the Steele dossier is bad not because it has been proven to be inaccurate, but because after Republicans initiated it some Democrats helped fund it?
Gee, this is the argument that Democrat types always use when they don't like the claims made by a source (i.e. the paper is garbage because the scientist who wrote it spoke at an oil industry event 10 years ago).
This is called 'getting hoisted on your our petard'...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 02, 2018, 08:22:29 pm
Trump is so desperate to get the Russia investigation stopped he is willing to try his luck taking out both Rosenstein and Mueller. We may actually find out if a sitting president can be indicted. The election was hacked so why doesn't Trump just sit back and allow that to be investigated, unless there are some stones he doesn't want to be turned. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 02, 2018, 09:08:25 pm
Trump OK's and Republicans release memo, Dow drops 666 points. Coincidence?  :o  :)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 02, 2018, 10:33:58 pm
Now I hear rumors the current FBI director Chris Wray may resign after the release of the memo. A lot of revolving doors down that way these days it seems.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on February 03, 2018, 02:39:19 am
Seems like a big nothing.  We already knew most of this.  And Hannity is saying it's the biggest scandal in American history.

They can have their politics, I seem to be less interested the worse it gets.
 

The government knowingly used false evidence to spy on a the potential president of the US and proceeded to ramp it up in an attempt to impeach and overthrow that president and you call it a big nothing?  Just because people hate Trump they're willing to throw away their freedom, and the press is quite willing to throw away any semblance of integrity that they have left.  WTF is wrong with you people.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 03, 2018, 07:12:38 am
The government knowingly used false evidence to spy on a the potential president of the US and proceeded to ramp it up in an attempt to impeach and overthrow that president and you call it a big nothing?  Just because people hate Trump they're willing to throw away their freedom, and the press is quite willing to throw away any semblance of integrity that they have left.  WTF is wrong with you people.

nonsense! Mr. Page was being surveilled long before the Trumpdumpster fire started... the iterative granting of successive warrants went through the judicial approval process involving 4 different federal judges; the granting of successive warrants reflects upon successful surveillance returns. If Mr. Trump was 'captured' in any related surveillance, what you seem to call "spying on a potential president", is a result of the (latter) Page warrants..... notwithstanding, no one/nothing in the manufactured Republican "memo", states anything about Trump being included in any related monitoring - quit making shyte up!

what's most telling is Trump/WH for months-on-end repeatedly referred to Page as 'insignificant' to the campaign... as a relevant unknown. Now, as a part of manufactured (memo) outrage, Trump/WH/Republicans are all 'hot&bothered' about the supposed infringement on Mr. Pages rights/freedoms as an American! Heelarious. The only loss of press integrity you're referring to reflects on TrumpTV (aka Fox News) and its shills for Trump. For someone so claiming to be transparent, cooperating and with nothing to hide, Trump sure is working overtime to show just how guilty he is.

your conspiracy theory would include the fact that many senior people involved in the investigation, including current FBI Director Christopher Wray, former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, current Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, current Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats and former FBI Director Jim Comey, are all longtime Republicans... some of whom Trump appointed to their positions himself... notwithstanding, as I said, 4 separate federal judges within the FISA court processing.

now... you refer to "false evidence" - what "false evidence"? If you're referring to the "dossier", please advise what has been proven to be false within it. More pointedly, show it was used/used as the determining factor, in the granting of a latter warrant against Mr. Page (notwithstanding the granting of prior warrants, pre-dossier, against Mr. Page).

as you say, WTF is wrong... with you? Are you a Russian/Puti bot?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 03, 2018, 07:50:22 am
The government knowingly used false evidence to spy
Except that is not true. The source of the evidence was biased and that was not disclosed when they applied for the warrant but to say it was 'knowingly false' is untenable given the information we have now.

You must remember that the Trump has deliberately released only the part of the story that supports his narrative and kept any details that might refute his view classified. This, in itself, is a gross abuse of the authority of the office.

I personally doubt there was any real collaboration with Russia and the entire investigation will likely turn up nothing (remember in the 90s the republicans wasted a lot of time trying to bring Clinton down over whitewater and came up with nothing). But what the president has done so far is a clearly gross obstruction of justice and grounds for impeachment. These kinds of tactics to intimidate law enforcement are what we expect to see from "sh**hole" countries.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 03, 2018, 08:12:53 am
The source of the evidence was biased and that was not disclosed when they applied for the warrant

what evidence/what bias? If you're referring to the 'dossier', it was initially paid for by "Republicans against Trump"... when Trump won the candidacy, its further development was paid for by Democrats. Your premise is that the information within was biased - information gathered as "oppo research" against Trump is not biased; by definition the information met its target intent... the intent wasn't to bring forward favourable Trump aspects.

your premise also assumes the 'dossier' had warrant determining significance by the FISA court, to the exclusion of any/all other determiners. Further, as I'm aware/read, before the FISA hearing, the 'dossier' was referred to as 'politically motivated'... its funding origin wasn't explicitly elaborated upon. But more pointedly, what bearing would that have had on a FISA judge reviewing a warrant application, and in what context would that review have been undertaken? Notwithstanding, again, this was but a renewal application... another renewal on prior warrants against the same Mr. Page (warrants granted pre-dossier).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 03, 2018, 08:18:55 am
Gee, this is the argument that Democrat types always use when they don't like the claims made by a source (i.e. the paper is garbage because the scientist who wrote it spoke at an oil industry event 10 years ago).

wait, what? Citation request!!!  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 03, 2018, 09:01:02 am
 

The government knowingly used false evidence to spy on a the potential president of the US and proceeded to ramp it up in an attempt to impeach and overthrow that president and you call it a big nothing?  Just because people hate Trump they're willing to throw away their freedom, and the press is quite willing to throw away any semblance of integrity that they have left.  WTF is wrong with you people.
There is no evidence it was false evidence and they spied on Carter Page not Trump. Get your facts straight.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 03, 2018, 09:03:07 am
Except that is not true. The source of the evidence was biased and that was not disclosed when they applied for the warrant but to say it was 'knowingly false' is untenable given the information we have now.

  It was disclosed, as reported by the Post, NYT and WSJ yesterday.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 03, 2018, 09:09:17 am
Try to keep up. It was disclosed, as reported by the Post, NYT and WSJ yesterday. So your whole premise is based on a lie. What say now?
No idea what you are talking about. What was disclosed establishes a source was biased. It is does not establish that it was knowingly false. There is a difference. There seem to be indications that parts of the dossier were not corroborated which means they "don't know it is true" which is also different from saying it is "knowingly false". Finally no details have been provided on the complete warrant application so we don't have any idea how essential this dossier was or what parts of the dossier were considered to be the most significant. Those details matter before one can level the accusations being made. The one thing that stands out is the FBI did not disclose the bias of the source when the warrant was filed - that was deceptive so the FBI is far from innocent here but that also does not supply enough to make the "knowingly false" claim.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 03, 2018, 09:21:49 am
A somewhat related story about the general incompetence/bad incentives/"the law does not apply to us" attitude at the US DOJ:

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1483588386/amazon0156-20/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 03, 2018, 09:31:43 am
If you're referring to the "dossier", please advise what has been proven to be false within it. More pointedly, show it was used/used as the determining factor, in the granting of a latter warrant against Mr. Page (notwithstanding the granting of prior warrants, pre-dossier, against Mr. Page).
Your premise is that the information within was biased - information gathered as "oppo research" against Trump is not biased; by definition the information met its target intent... the intent wasn't to bring forward favourable Trump aspects.

your premise also assumes the 'dossier' had warrant determining significance by the FISA court, to the exclusion of any/all other determiners. Further, as I'm aware/read, before the FISA hearing, the 'dossier' was referred to as 'politically motivated'... its funding origin wasn't explicitly elaborated upon.
Finally no details have been provided on the complete warrant application so we don't have any idea how essential this dossier was or what parts of the dossier were considered to be the most significant.

say what? You say "no details have been provided on the warrant application"... and you openly admit that (at least after my prior posts enlightening you), as you say, "we don't have any idea how essential this dossier was", yet you're so insistent to play up a claimed 'bias' attachment. Again, the 'dossier' was provided with a 'political motivation' attachment to it; again, opposition research is not biased research... it is, by design, targeted research.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 03, 2018, 09:42:29 am
No idea what you are talking about. What was disclosed establishes a source was biased. It is does not establish that it was knowingly false.
There were reports early yesterday in the WSJ that the FISA court was not informed that Steele may be biased, but that was later reported to be false in the Post, NYT and the WSJ.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 03, 2018, 09:43:28 am
A somewhat related story about the general incompetence/bad incentives/"the law does not apply to us" attitude at the US DOJ:

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1483588386/amazon0156-20/

its not related in any way whatsoever. But its quite telling that you'd rush to cherry-pick a legitimate legal undertaking intended to check the validity of the 'factual off-label promotion' of a particular health related device; one subject to U.S. FDA authority.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 03, 2018, 09:46:37 am
There were reports early yesterday in the WSJ that the FISA court was not informed that Steele may be biased, but that was later reported to be false in the Post, NYT and the WSJ.
OK. That is good to know. Not disclosing it was the part of the story which struck me as underhanded. If the source was disclosed as biased to the judge and the warrant was still granted then there must be more to the warrant application than the released memo suggests.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 03, 2018, 09:50:38 am
OK. That is good to know.

 ;D c'mon... the waldo told you as much! And you were so sure, so adamant - carry on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 03, 2018, 09:54:04 am
a legitimate legal undertaking intended to check the validity of the 'factual off-label promotion' of a particular health related device; one subject to U.S. FDA authority.
There was nothing legitimate about the unhanded tactics used during the investigation. One bureaucrat ended up going to jail for for the abuse of process but unfortunately most of the abuses the DOJ got away with are not crimes (even though they should be). Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 03, 2018, 10:05:13 am
There was nothing legitimate about the unhanded tactics used during the investigation. One bureaucrat ended up going to jail for for the abuse of process but unfortunately most of the abuses the DOJ got away with are not crimes (even though they should be). Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

not my reading of the proceeding; but hey now... with your continued emphasis on the U.S. DOJ and your initial claim of "somewhat related", given your backpedal, shouldn't this also apply to your claim of "somewhat related"? Quis custodiet in sui certa adamanta terit?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 03, 2018, 11:09:47 am
The government knowingly used false evidence to spy on a the potential president of the US and proceeded to ramp it up in an attempt to impeach and overthrow that president and you call it a big nothing?  Just because people hate Trump they're willing to throw away their freedom, and the press is quite willing to throw away any semblance of integrity that they have left.  WTF is wrong with you people.

Here's a couple of articles from the "Red State" explaining why Devin Nunes' memo is actually just a PR stunt.  (and I picked Red State as a source because they're as right-wing on the media spectrum as you can get without being alt-right. So that people don't come back at me with "blah blah liberal media blah blah.")

First article:

https://www.redstate.com/patterico/2018/02/02/significant-inaccuracy-thememo-calls-credibility-question/

Summary:  Nunes claims Comey said the dossier was "salacious and unverified".  In fact, Comey actually said that portions of it were "salacious and unverified".  Nunes' claim that the whole dossier is "salacious and unverified" is false and dishonest.


Second article:

https://www.redstate.com/sweetie15/2018/02/03/busted-key-allegation-nunes-weaponized-memo-drop-kicked/

Nunes claims that the FBI and DOJ improperly obtained surveillance on Carter Page, and presented the Steele dossier without disclosing that it had been been paid for as "oppo research" by the Clinton campaign.

The first claim is BS because Carter Page had been a person of interest since 2013 due to his extensive connections with shady Russians.

The second claim is BS because it was disclosed to FISA that the Steele dossier was gathered as "oppo research" and the court found the information to be credible anyway.


The question I have, which Trump supporters never answer, is why was Trump surrounded by all these shady Russian-connected people in the first place?  Paul Manafort and Rick Gates. Michael Flynn. Carter Page.  Is that just a coincidence?   What about all these meetings between people like Kushner and Donny Jr with Russians?  Also coincidence?

When it came to Hillary Clinton's emails, you guys were "Where there's smoke, there's fire!"

But now when it comes to all these weird connections of Trump's team to Russia, you guys are "Where there's smoke,  who put up all these smoke detectors?!?"


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 03, 2018, 12:32:59 pm
The government knowingly used false evidence to spy on a the potential president of the US and proceeded to ramp it up in an attempt to impeach and overthrow that president and you call it a big nothing?  Just because people hate Trump they're willing to throw away their freedom, and the press is quite willing to throw away any semblance of integrity that they have left.  WTF is wrong with you people.

But wait, there's more!

The right-wing, non-liberal, National Review points out another problem with the memo: it confirms that the investigation was already underway in July 2016, which is before the agency took the Steele dossier to FISA in October 2016.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/456063/nunes-memo-big-flaw-confirms-new-york-times-story

Trying to complain that the investigation is unfair because it was caused by the Steele dossier falls apart, because Nunes himself just confirmed for us that the investigation was already underway.

Nunes shot his own argument in the foot.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 03, 2018, 12:41:09 pm
Still, this could all work out fine.  They could discredit the FBI and maybe even trigger a dismantling of it. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 03, 2018, 12:54:05 pm
Still, this could all work out fine.  They could discredit the FBI and maybe even trigger a dismantling of it.

Wait, are you suggesting dismantling the FBI would be fine? Trump and co., seem to be trying to discredit both the FBI and the DoJ to protect the boss from something he could very well not need protection from, unless of course he knows he does need that protection. There is apparently another memo that has yet to be released but, if not so heavily redacted as this current one, would refute the accusations Trump has attempted to generate against the rule of law.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 03, 2018, 01:01:44 pm
Still, this could all work out fine.  They could discredit the FBI and maybe even trigger a dismantling of it.

Yes, I’m sure any new Trumpian law enforcement agency would be great for democracy of the USofA.  ::)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 03, 2018, 01:05:38 pm
Still, this could all work out fine.  They could discredit the FBI and maybe even trigger a dismantling of it.

Fine for who? Dismantle the agencies that are entrusted to make sure a government operates within the law, coupled with a Congress which thinks that is a good idea.

When Putin came to power, Russian presidential elections every four years with a two term limit. Then they went to every six years with a two term limit. Now Putin is running for a 3rd term. Next it will be president for life. How do you think these things happen?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 03, 2018, 01:59:51 pm
Fine for who?

Fine for Trumpistan.

Quote
Dismantle the agencies that are entrusted to make sure a government operates within the law, coupled with a Congress which thinks that is a good idea.

When Putin came to power, Russian presidential elections every four years with a two term limit. Then they went to every six years with a two term limit. Now Putin is running for a 3rd term. Next it will be president for life. How do you think these things happen?

Exactly this way.  American democracy was not designed for mass communication and therefore it is exactly that which is challenging to bring it down. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 03, 2018, 03:07:33 pm
Fine for Trumpistan.

Exactly this way.  American democracy was not designed for mass communication and therefore it is exactly that which is challenging to bring it down.

I am optimistic that it could in fact bolster democracy since it will become evident that things can't be swept under the rug so easily anymore, therefore those involved will be inclined to keep their noses clean(er). It may well bring Trump's version of democracy down though, all those tweets are starting to add up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 03, 2018, 03:34:17 pm
American democracy was not designed for mass communication and therefore it is exactly that which is challenging to bring it down.

last year the Economist's 'Intelligence Unit' punted the U.S. into its "Flawed Democracy" categorization... continuing this year as shown within the recent release of 2017 rankings; the U.S. is ranked in a tie for 21st position (Canada sits in a tie for the 6th ranked spot):

These are the best democracies in the world — and the US barely makes the list --- http://uk.businessinsider.com/economist-intelligence-unit-2017-democracy-index-best-countries-2018-1/#1-norway-98710-1

(https://i.imgur.com/vHuBbQm.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 03, 2018, 06:31:00 pm
the more 'official' Democratic Party response to the Nunes memo (from the same Intelligence Committee) is yet to be released. However, Rep. Nadler (ranking member of the House committee on the Judiciary) who has seen the Carter Page FISA warrant, earlier this afternoon sent a rebuttal to the Nunes memo to all his Democratic colleagues in the House:

https://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/sites/democrats.judiciary.house.gov/files/documents/Nadler%20to%20Democratic%20Colleauges%20re.%20Nunes%20Memo%202.3.18.pdf

I. The FISA court found probable cause to believe that Carter Page is an agent of a foreign power. Nothing in the Nunes memo rules out the possibility that considerable evidence beyond the Steele dossier helped the court reach that conclusion.

II. Christopher Steele is a recognized expert on Russia and organized crime.

III. The Nunes memo provides no credible basis whatsoever for removing Rod Rosenstein as Deputy Attorney General.

IV. The Nunes memo shows that House Republicans are now part and parcel to an organized effort to obstruct the Special Counsel’s investigation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 03, 2018, 06:57:54 pm
I would thus imagine that Trump's lawyers, at least his personal ones who haven't been fired) are spending time trying to keep his attention span focused long enough to get a handle on what taking the the fifth is and how it's done in case he ever has to sit face to face with Mueller.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 03, 2018, 08:01:57 pm
Fine for Trumpistan.

Exactly this way.  American democracy was not designed for mass communication and therefore it is exactly that which is challenging to bring it down.
I beg to differ. Mass communication isn’t the problem; a culture that mistakes being entertained for being informed is the problem.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 03, 2018, 08:17:29 pm
I beg to differ. Mass communication isn’t the problem; a culture that mistakes being entertained for being informed is the problem.

A quick perusal of Fox, Breitbart, or Limbaugh will bear that out. Apparently Hannity gets his prompts directly from Trump by phone on a daily basis.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 04, 2018, 10:20:50 am
I beg to differ. Mass communication isn’t the problem; a culture that mistakes being entertained for being informed is the problem.

But now we're in a chicken-and-egg discussion.  Unless you believe in blaming cultures, which I don't, then blaming culture feels suspiciously like an 'othering' argument. If you don't believe in blaming an entire people, if you believe that groups of humans are largely similar in how they respond to circumstances, then how can you parse and then dissect the culture-communication issue ?

I don't happen to think that American culture is a long-term characteristic of people like race, or religion may be. Even if they are,  these things are still not immutable.  Granted that the search for root-causes can result in a magnificent pageant of staring at ones' shoes.  And also granted that so few people are able to engage in such a discussion objectively that it's not worth trying. 

Still - I feel that the communication modes of a society are more about topology than blaming a 'failed' people, and therefore a better way to look at how national character finds itself directing the nation.  How can the same peoples who gave us the New Deal give us McCarthyism ?  What aspects of American tribalism changed, or otherwise how did America change ?  The answer is unknowable, I think, but also largely undiscussable.

We can try, since it's a great interest for me, but also best suited to another thread.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 04, 2018, 12:02:18 pm
Yes, I’m sure any new Trumpian law enforcement agency would be great for democracy of the USofA.  ::)

I hope they give it an ironic, dystopian name like Patriot Patrol.  David Clarke could be the obermarschall.

I'm picturing large video billboards of Sean Hannity saying "Is your friend or family member not as patriotic as they should be? Give Uncle Sean a call. We'll help them out."

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 04, 2018, 12:35:33 pm
But now we're in a chicken-and-egg discussion.  Unless you believe in blaming cultures, which I don't, then blaming culture feels suspiciously like an 'othering' argument. If you don't believe in blaming an entire people, if you believe that groups of humans are largely similar in how they respond to circumstances, then how can you parse and then dissect the culture-communication issue ?

I don't happen to think that American culture is a long-term characteristic of people like race, or religion may be. Even if they are,  these things are still not immutable.  Granted that the search for root-causes can result in a magnificent pageant of staring at ones' shoes.  And also granted that so few people are able to engage in such a discussion objectively that it's not worth trying. 

Still - I feel that the communication modes of a society are more about topology than blaming a 'failed' people, and therefore a better way to look at how national character finds itself directing the nation.  How can the same peoples who gave us the New Deal give us McCarthyism ?  What aspects of American tribalism changed, or otherwise how did America change ?  The answer is unknowable, I think, but also largely undiscussable.

We can try, since it's a great interest for me, but also best suited to another thread.
Do you not think entertainment is valued far more highly than information?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 04, 2018, 12:37:06 pm
Do you not think entertainment is valued far more highly than information?

I'll just say 'yes', provisionally to read where you're going with it.  My 'yes' is more emphatic if we're talking about contemporary western/N. American/USian culture.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 04, 2018, 02:55:24 pm
I hope they give it an ironic, dystopian name like Patriot Patrol.  David Clarke could be the obermarschall.

I'm picturing large video billboards of Sean Hannity saying "Is your friend or family member not as patriotic as they should be? Give Uncle Sean a call. We'll help them out."

 -k

Well, they already have The USA Patriot Act.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 04, 2018, 04:02:10 pm
American democracy was not designed for mass communication and therefore it is exactly that which is challenging to bring it down.

The problem isn't with mass communication (which has been around for a very long time and is an essential part of democracy). The problem is with our new breed of personalized communication, which literally gives you the news you want to hear.

People can now choose media sources based on their political preferences. If you think Trump is a shining knight fighting for truth and justice, you can opt for media outlets that will give you stories that support that notion for you, and downplay any news to the contrary.  If you think Trump is a crook or a Russian puppet, you can do the same.  People can now choose their own reality, and the existence of an objective reality outside their preconceptions doesn't matter.  This goes beyond politics... anti-vaxxers and other conspiritards of many varieties do the same.

And it's gone beyond just people choosing to only follow media that supports their preconceptions.  Artificial intelligence is now fueling this as well.   When I open my web-browser now, it offers me a list of trending topics from around the web, but also topics that it knows I'm interested in.  Based on my previous searches and sites I visit, it knows that (for example) I was very interested in the Harvey Weinstein scandal. And when there's new information about Harvey Weinstein, it shows up on my list of suggested reads.   It also knows what websites I like, so it recommends articles from CBC rather than Fox News for example.  The artificial intelligence algorithms at work here are based around finding stories it thinks I will like, not around stories it thinks are the best or most objective source of information. Its goal is to make me happy, and its algorithm to try to do so is based on my existing prejudices.  The net effect here is that my web browser is guiding me toward content that confirms my preconceptions, as opposed to presenting an objective reality.

So once maybe mass communication provided you with a window to the world, but increasingly that window is turning into a mirror.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 04, 2018, 04:22:25 pm
I'll just say 'yes', provisionally to read where you're going with it.  My 'yes' is more emphatic if we're talking about contemporary western/N. American/USian culture.
My point is just that you’re leaning in the mode of communication, which indeed has blurred the lines between entertainment and information. However, I’m suggesting that little has been done to push back against that cultural shift and politically it has benefitted the power-hungry to the detriment of society as a whole. These politicians don’t care if they “**** where they sleep” as long as they have the deed to the house. The Tea Party has countless examples of stoking that anti-intellectual fire, if you want an example, but they’re certainly not the only ones. He attack on expertise over the years might make the uneducated feel better, but it is a disastrous approach to politics that opens the door to tyranny. Trump is just a stepping-stone along the way. Someone like that only gets elected by people rejecting expertise and being informed. Trump gets elected only in a time where people would rather be entertained than informed. They distrust expertise so much that the most qualified people for the White House (not just Hillary, but even staff and advisors) are rejected for sycophants who confuse blind loyalty and unthinking partisanship for informed policy.

You’re pointing to mass communication as the problem, maybe you’re right. Maybe that’s the catalyst that makes everyone think they can be an expert, since they have access to more information than ever before in human history. However, there needs to come a time where people realize that access to information is not the same as being able to effectively use that information or even understand it. You could give me a box full of car parts, but I would never be able to put an engine together. Why people don’t realize that the same principle applies to public policy is beyond me.

The idea of a democracy was that people would look up to and promote the most intelligent and well-informed amongst us to lead our nations. There was a value placed on these qualities that no longer exists. Frankly, it’s post-modernism completely misunderstood. The irony that Peterson claims this too is not lost on me. What I mean, however, is that pomo is misconstrued as all positions are equally valid and informed. That’s not true. Post-modernists’ epistemological perspective is more accurately about accounting for subjectivity and what that means for analysis, rather than arguing for a nihilistic “everything is subjective” approach that discounts learning, education, and expertise.

Mass communication may be the mode through which the democratization of expertise has flourished, but it was not an inevitable path. It’s only through the sustained exploitation of ignorance for political gain, the abandonment of values (by both conservatives, but especially libertarians, and liberals) that put community and society at their core, that brought about this anti-intellectual era. It is completely unsustainable.

Make no mistake about it, this at its foundation is about intellectual laziness. People pick their politics like they pick their favourite sports team, literally rallying around their team and treating them as bough they can do no wrong. This is entertainment over information. This allows others to make decisions for you. Just pick your party and follow unwaveringly with the utmost loyalty. When the majority of the populace becomes too lazy to think for themselves, tyranny is inevitable. Trump, who flings **** at anyone who holds him accountable (e.g., the media, the department of justice, even other Republicans), is simply a step along the way.

You say it’s mass communication and maybe it is. Maybe people are incapable of wading through the mountains of information, so they don their political colours and let party lines make the decisions for them. However, I’m arguing that there needs to be accountability somewhere for fostering a culture that sees intelligence as a defect, that meets expertise with reckless distrust, no matter how advanced that expertise is. Politicians who exploit this, should be harshly and swiftly criticized. And the media has a responsibility to contextualize and present information in a way that educates rather than entertains. Mass communication is not the problem. It’s what’s being done with it that’s the problem.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 04, 2018, 04:57:42 pm
However, I’m arguing that there needs to be accountability somewhere for fostering a culture that sees intelligence as a defect, that meets expertise with reckless distrust, no matter how advanced that expertise is.
Part of the blame for this rests with politicians and advocates who try to use "expertise" as an excuse to ignore opinions on policies which they disagree with. There is nothing that will destroy the credibility of an expert faster than a politician saying "my values are  the only ones that count because these experts, who share my values, agree with me".  Such arguments leave people with no choice but to destroy the weapon (i.e. experts). If you don't like that then stop conflating value based policy judgements with what the science actually says. For example, the science may say that CO2 is causing the planet to warm but it says nothing about how to make the complicated political and economic trades offs between competing priorities. The latter are "value judgments" and everyone is entitled to express their opinion on "value judgements". If you insist on dismissing the values of people that don't share the values of a privileged academic then you should not be surprised that those people start to dismiss the opinions of privileged academics.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 04, 2018, 05:48:53 pm
No one, other than Waldo, gives a **** about your crusade against global warming policy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 04, 2018, 06:00:48 pm
No one, other than Waldo, gives a **** about your crusade against global warming policy.
If you had actually read my point you would see that broad comment on the use of "expertise" in political debates. It applies whether you are talking about   minimum wages, pipelines, GMOs or immigration. What makes the the climate change debate unique is the widespread abuse of "expertise" as an excuse to silence people with different values that inform their policy choices.

When it comes to the abuse of "experts" you are a case study of a hypocrite who talks a fine game about accepting expert advice when it supports your desired policies but immediately dismiss experts if they say something different. The minimum wage discussion is an excellent example. I provided a link to someone that could be described as an expert expressing the opinion that the literature clearly showed that minimum wages hurt the poor. You dismissed his opinion and made no attempt to address the specific claims he made (which included a statement explaining why the studies you prefer are inadequate).

So spare me the crocodile tears for the plight of expertise. You are no different from the people you criticize.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on February 04, 2018, 06:21:29 pm
Part of the blame for this rests with politicians and advocates who try to use "expertise" as an excuse to ignore opinions on policies which they disagree with. There is nothing that will destroy the credibility of an expert faster than a politician saying "my values are  the only ones that count because these experts, who share my values, agree with me".  Such arguments leave people with no choice but to destroy the weapon (i.e. experts). If you don't like that then stop conflating value based policy judgements with what the science actually says. For example, the science may say that CO2 is causing the planet to warm but it says nothing about how to make the complicated political and economic trades offs between competing priorities. The latter are "value judgments" and everyone is entitled to express their opinion on "value judgements". If you insist on dismissing the values of people that don't share the values of a privileged academic then you should not be surprised that those people start to dismiss the opinions of privileged academics.

On the other hand, those who would dismiss 'expertise' because it doesn't align with their values or because they've made a subjective decision that politicians are 'virtue signalling' or 'in the pocket' or 'some other agenda' and should thus be ignored/dismissed aren't doing us any favors, either.   I'd even go so far to say that it's those who dismiss expertise, for any reason, that do the greater harm.   Consider that great stand-by, anti-vaccers.  They choose to believe a minority of experts rather than the combined expertise of dozens of people around the world, not to mention the empirical evidence of decades of research and evidence; as a result, more kids and adults get sick, and more die.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 04, 2018, 06:23:46 pm
Tim, I’m talking about things well beyond your obnoxious obsession with climate. I’m talking about things like this:

https://forward.com/fast-forward/393595/holocaust-denier-will-be-gop-nominee-in-illinois-congressional-race/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 04, 2018, 06:32:45 pm
No one, other than Waldo, gives a **** about your crusade against global warming policy.

yabut it's a discerning shyte giving; one intended to highlight and/or counter member TimG's perpetual need to trot-out his off-topic/out-of-the-blue references to his denier/fake-skeptic/bigOil shilling agenda!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 04, 2018, 06:36:43 pm
On the other hand, those who would dismiss 'expertise' because it doesn't align with their values or because they've made a subjective decision that politicians are 'virtue signalling' or 'in the pocket' or 'some other agenda' and should thus be ignored/dismissed aren't doing us any favors, either.
I don't disagree - but there is a middle ground that I wish more people would look for:

1) Separate the science based analyses from the political decision making which must incorporate values and economics;
2) Acknowledge the uncertainties implicit in many fields of knowledge and that deciding what to do about risks is a values based decision.

For example, the pipeline to the west coast is about nothing but values at this point. On one side you have people that few that jobs for people they don't know means nothing if they must accept even a small risk. On the other you have people who feel that well being of the economy is more important and the risks can be managed with proper oversight.

No amount of science will change the opinion of either side and one side it going to see its values stomped on because the anti-pipeline crowd refuses to compromise (the pro-pipeline side has already compromised a fair amount with carbon taxes and numerous other concessions). I don't know which will end up losing at this point.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 04, 2018, 07:20:38 pm
God damnit.  How many threads do you two pinheads have to ruin with climate bullshit?   This is the second one today. **** off.  Get a room.  Get a therapist. Get help.  God damnit.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 04, 2018, 07:23:24 pm
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a2/PinheadComic1.jpg/150px-PinheadComic1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 04, 2018, 07:41:46 pm
God damnit.  How many threads do you two pinheads have to ruin with climate bullshit?   This is the second one today. **** off.  Get a room.  Get a therapist. Get help.  God damnit.
My comments were relevant directly addressed the points being made. Cyber was the one that flipped out because my example was climate related (it is not as if one could have a conversation about the loss of respect for experts without discussing the climate issue since that is one of the bigger examples where experts are held in contempt by a significant portion of the population).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 04, 2018, 08:32:06 pm
On the other hand, those who would dismiss 'expertise' because it doesn't align with their values or because they've made a subjective decision that politicians are 'virtue signalling' or 'in the pocket' or 'some other agenda' and should thus be ignored/dismissed aren't doing us any favors, either.   I'd even go so far to say that it's those who dismiss expertise, for any reason, that do the greater harm.   Consider that great stand-by, anti-vaccers.  They choose to believe a minority of experts rather than the combined expertise of dozens of people around the world, not to mention the empirical evidence of decades of research and evidence; as a result, more kids and adults get sick, and more die.

Similar conclusions can be arrived at regarding those who dismiss such things as global warming. For instance Trump says there's nothing to worry about, it's all fake news, and that so called "clean" coal is a beautiful thing. Of course he probably paid as much attention to grade school science as he does to the US Constitution that he is tasked with upholding. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 04, 2018, 09:52:06 pm
My comments were relevant directly addressed the points being made.

And DogOnPorch thinks Muslim invaders are relevant to every single thread. And the conspiritard guy thinks 9/11 or US internationalism is relevant to every single thread. Those aboriginal activists used to think native rights were relevant to every single thread. We had others who think Israeli settlements are relevant to every single thread. And as soon as you say "climate" then the waldo shows up and pretty soon everything is covered in sea-lion **** and whatever anybody else was talking about is completely lost.

People who need to make every thread about their own favorite issue are incredibly tedious.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 04, 2018, 10:11:45 pm
Similar conclusions can be arrived at regarding those who dismiss such things as global warming. For instance Trump says there's nothing to worry about, it's all fake news, and that so called "clean" coal is a beautiful thing. Of course he probably paid as much attention to grade school science as he does to the US Constitution that he is tasked with upholding.
Please. Stop. ****.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 04, 2018, 10:14:15 pm
the waldo shows up and pretty soon everything is covered in sea-lion **** and whatever anybody else was talking about is completely lost.
I generally ignore waldo for that reason (responding to him is like shaking a bottle of pop and then opening it). But point taken. Will make more an effort to find non-climate change examples when I want to make a point.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 04, 2018, 10:24:39 pm
And DogOnPorch thinks Muslim invaders are relevant to every single thread. And the conspiritard guy thinks 9/11 or US internationalism is relevant to every single thread. Those aboriginal activists used to think native rights were relevant to every single thread. We had others who think Israeli settlements are relevant to every single thread. And as soon as you say "climate" then the waldo shows up and pretty soon everything is covered in sea-lion **** and whatever anybody else was talking about is completely lost.

People who need to make every thread about their own favorite issue are incredibly tedious.

 -k

Threads do get derailed, and I will admit to being guilty from time to time of getting on that bandwagon. I do try to either ignore when that happens, or maybe throw one out about "WTF does that have to do with the price of tea in China"? At least over here you don't have to worry about the fuhrer roaming around handing out arbitrary sentences. That in itself is a feature that I think improves individual desire to respect focus.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 04, 2018, 11:51:05 pm
God damnit.  How many threads do you two pinheads have to ruin with climate bullshit?   This is the second one today. **** off.  Get a room.  Get a therapist. Get help.  God damnit.
And as soon as you say "climate" then the waldo shows up and pretty soon everything is covered in sea-lion **** and whatever anybody else was talking about is completely lost.

hey now Ms. kimmy, I never... never... initiate. Most certainly I respond, and will continue to respond whenever member TimG plies his denier/fake-skeptic bullshyte. If that bothers you and will continue to bother you, I suggest you direct your fake outrage towards the initiator, one member TimG, who can't resist dropping his off-topic and unrelated thread references to his ever present denier/fake-skeptic hobby-horse. Thank you for your consideration - carry on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 05, 2018, 01:03:40 am
will continue to respond whenever member TimG plies his denier/fake-skeptic bullshyte.
Yawn. You vomit BS over any thread whenever any dares to violate the precepts of your cult. Most people can simply accept that not everyone shares the same opinion - but not you. Any heresy can never be left unanswered and you mess up the forum for everyone else.  You wallow in the illusion that people are unable to respond to your nonsense but what is really happening is others have the maturity to back off to avoid adding to the chaos.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 05, 2018, 05:40:00 am
Yawn. You vomit BS over any thread whenever any dares to violate the precepts of your cult. Most people can simply accept that not everyone shares the same opinion - but not you. Any heresy can never be left unanswered and you mess up the forum for everyone else.  You wallow in the illusion that people are unable to respond to your nonsense but what is really happening is others have the maturity to back off to avoid adding to the chaos.

yawn - says you, the grandInitiator! It's your as you say, "messing up the forum", off-topic and unrelated thread denier/fake-skeptic BS I'm responding to. Are you exercising your declared maturity when you continue, ad nauseum, dropping your off-topic/unrelated thread BS? Is it your declared maturity you're showing when you, in kind, respond to these replies to your very initiations? Punting your (typically unsubstantiated opinion) off-topic and unrelated BS with actual citations, with actual facts, is most inconvenient to/for you!

nothing is sweeter, nothing is more telling than reading you lashing out by declaring anyone who calls out your denier/fake-skeptic BS as being ideologically driven and following the "religion/cult" of legitimate science and knowledge provided by a world-wide network of hundreds upon hundreds of organizations/groups/institutions/etc., of thousands upon thousands of active working and reputable scientists. The wallowing illusion you speak of, an illusion of grandTrumpiness - that's you believing your unsubstantiated opinions trump actual facts, actual science!

(note: did you see what I did there with that prior sentence... thread relevance!)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 05, 2018, 05:50:36 am
Trumpian economics: ignore all those clamoring with annoying questions about lost revenue and spiraling deficits associated with tax cuts for the rich - just borrow mo' money!

"The U.S. government is set to borrow nearly $1 trillion this year, an 84 percent jump from last year" --- https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/02/03/the-u-s-government-is-set-to-borrow-nearly-1-trillion-this-year/?utm_term=.e45efc423839
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 05, 2018, 06:00:33 am
too much of a good Trump thing? ... largest number of departures in the shortest time frame! At least 38 House Republicans have announced they are retiring, running for another office or resigning outright - the latest to announce is "renowned" Benghazi investigator, Trey Gowdy:

"There is a wave of Republicans leaving Congress" --- https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/10/politics/house-retirement-tracker/index.html

(https://i.imgur.com/ZXNozy5.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 05, 2018, 09:22:32 am
Trumpian economics: ignore all those clamoring with annoying questions about lost revenue and spiraling deficits associated with tax cuts for the rich - just borrow mo' money!

"The U.S. government is set to borrow nearly $1 trillion this year, an 84 percent jump from last year" --- https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/02/03/the-u-s-government-is-set-to-borrow-nearly-1-trillion-this-year/?utm_term=.e45efc423839

Yes. The deficit was one of the Republicans favorite complaints, up until they were in position to do something about it. Now they're the 3 monkeys when it comes to the deficit. See no deficit, hear no deficit, and certainly don't say anything about the deficit.   The "Tax Reform" heist will aggravate the deficit to even greater levels.

On the same theme, Republicans used to love to talk about "labor market participate rate".  As in "the unemployment rate only looks good because it doesn't include people who aren't even looking for jobs anymore! The Labor Market Participation Rate is lower than it has been in decades!"   Now Republicans love talking about the unemployment rate, and ignore the Labor Market Participation Rate. Because it has continued to inch downward and is now even lower than it was under Obama.

And when the stock market indexes were going up up up under Obama, Republicans always said "this isn't an indicator of a healthy economy! This is just evidence that Wall Street is getting rich while ordinary Americans struggle!"  Now Republicans have decided that stock market indexes are a great indicator of a healthy economy.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on February 05, 2018, 11:42:34 am
Tim, I’m talking about things well beyond your obnoxious obsession with climate. I’m talking about things like this:

https://forward.com/fast-forward/393595/holocaust-denier-will-be-gop-nominee-in-illinois-congressional-race/

The American parties need to have some sort of approval process like our parties do, to keep wack jobs like this and that idiot in Georgia out of the party entirely.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on February 05, 2018, 11:45:02 am
And as soon as you say "climate" then the waldo shows up and pretty soon everything is covered in sea-lion ****

I vote we ban the word climate from all discussions, then, given the unpleasant outcome of its use.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2018, 11:57:55 am
I vote we ban the word climate from all discussions, then, given the unpleasant outcome of its use.

It seems it would only be unpleasant for you because your views are regularly refuted.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2018, 01:30:11 pm
I guess Donald will have to ease up on bragging about what he's done for the stock market. Looks like we are in for about a $1200 drop in two days.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 05, 2018, 01:57:15 pm
Plus this.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/05/treasury-set-to-borrow-nearly-a-trillion-in-2018-and-more-beyond.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2018, 02:09:13 pm
Trump is speaking, the dow is dropping...over 1k just now. Yikes, shut him up!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 05, 2018, 11:12:08 pm
So is it fair to say at this point that the Nunes memo was considerably less of a bombshell than El Trumpo anticipated it to be?   Despite the best efforts of Fox & Friends it seems like it's already fallen out of the news cycle.

Bubber was right:  it was serving its purpose better by not being released.

Before it was released, the pro-Trump media talked it up like it was a silver bullet that would blow the lid off the Mueller investigation... something that the Democrats and the FBI were terrified of.  "They're shaking in their boots! They're fighting the release of the memo because they're afraid they're all going to be in jail!"   Now that it's out, it's clearly a dud.

It's like in a horror movie when the suspense is building towards the big moment, and then when the monster finally arrives you think "man... that thing's actually pretty lame. Kinda sad, actually."

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 05, 2018, 11:34:15 pm
Now that it's out, it's clearly a dud.
It has served its purpose of ensuring that any charges that eventually come from Muller will be dismissed by Republican base and likely ensured that Republicans won't feel the need to impeach Trump for obstruction of justice no matter how much he deserves it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 05, 2018, 11:44:03 pm
It has served its purpose of ensuring that any charges that eventually come from Muller will be dismissed by Republican base and likely ensured that Republicans won't feel the need to impeach Trump for obstruction of justice no matter how much he deserves it.

Wasn't that already the case, though? These guys have been claiming there's a "deep state" conspiracy to "get" Trump since before he was even elected. They didn't need Devin Nunes for that.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 06, 2018, 12:04:30 am
Wasn't that already the case, though? These guys have been claiming there's a "deep state" conspiracy to "get" Trump since before he was even elected. They didn't need Devin Nunes for that.
Conspiracies have more strength if people can constantly add more fuel to fire. You can argue that some segments of trumpland would have had the opinion no matter what but the Nunes memo has likely expanded the number of people willing to accept that premise which, in turn, reduces pressure on republican lawmakers to deal with Trump's law breaking.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 06, 2018, 01:15:31 am
It has served its purpose of ensuring that any charges that eventually come from Muller will be dismissed by Republican base and likely ensured that Republicans won't feel the need to impeach Trump for obstruction of justice no matter how much he deserves it.

Except that after the mid terms it may not matter what the Republicans want to do with Trump since they are likely to lose control of both houses.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 06, 2018, 09:37:01 am
Pennsylvania judges have thrown out that state's gerrymandered districts, and Republicans have decided that the appropriate course of action is to find new judges that will support gerrymandering.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/pa-lawmaker-hopes-to-impeach-justices-who-nixed-gerrymander.html

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 06, 2018, 09:54:15 am
The GOP are terrorists.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 06, 2018, 11:03:30 am
Pennsylvania judges have thrown out that state's gerrymandered districts, and Republicans have decided that the appropriate course of action is to find new judges that will support gerrymandering.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/pa-lawmaker-hopes-to-impeach-justices-who-nixed-gerrymander.html

 -k

Wonder where they got that idea.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 06, 2018, 10:32:46 pm
Things got real quiet in Trumpistan after the stock-market plunge.  Anybody check twitter? Maybe twitter's broken.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 06, 2018, 11:03:44 pm
Apparently Trump's lawyers are telling him to be "real quiet" if he happens to be called to sit in front of Mueller. They seem to think he may get himself in trouble with his proclivity for uttering statements less that truthful. He can be subpoenaed, csn hre be indicted? We may never see because he may take the advice to simply remain silent. That ought to drive his BP up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 06, 2018, 11:19:25 pm
Apparently Trump's lawyers are telling him to be "real quiet" if he happens to be called to sit in front of Mueller. They seem to think he may get himself in trouble with his proclivity for uttering statements less that truthful. He can be subpoenaed, csn hre be indicted? We may never see because he may take the advice to simply remain silent. That ought to drive his BP up.

Fat chance of that.  The fat orange **** always thinks he is the smartest guy in the room.  He thinks that he will go in to the interview and dazzle Mueller with his genius.

I don't believe that el Trumpo is smart enough to be scared of Mueller.  And I don't believe that even if he were, that his ego would let him keep his mouth shut. No way on earth can a guy with such a bad case of small-dick syndrome sit there and say "yes sir, no sir" while he's getting questioned by a guy he thinks is his inferior.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on February 13, 2018, 07:50:29 am
Does this thread have any blind supporting Trumpites like the other board?

It's the most popular thread there because there are so many crazies that will carry water for Trump no matter what. It's actually entertaining.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 13, 2018, 09:25:11 am
Yay! You're here!    ;D

Hal9000 dropped by briefly to talk about how awesome the Devin Nunes memo is, but he vanished pretty quickly afterward.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on February 13, 2018, 11:22:35 am
Fat chance of that.  The fat orange **** always thinks he is the smartest guy in the room.  He thinks that he will go in to the interview and dazzle Mueller with his genius.

Just thought I'd throw this out there.

"Can I just say this? As bad as y'all think Trump is, you would be worried about Pence," Manigault-Newman told her housemates seated around her. She continued, "We would be begging for days of Trump back if Pence became President, that's all I'm saying. He's extreme."
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/13/politics/omarosa-manigault-mike-pence-celebrity-big-brother/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on February 13, 2018, 12:07:04 pm
"We would be begging for days of Trump back if Pence became President,"

Yes, Pence was a good choice for Trump to make - Job security
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 13, 2018, 12:28:57 pm
when the Russia investigation, corruption, money laundering, et al, dominoes ultimately fall through the line of succession (Pence, Ryan, Tillerson, Mnuchin), it will be President Mattis standing... (Hatch has already announced he won't seek reelection)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on February 13, 2018, 12:37:32 pm
How is Pence or Ryan implicated in the Russia Investigation?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 13, 2018, 12:46:27 pm
How is Pence or Ryan implicated in the Russia Investigation?

bloody hell Boges... I thought the bar was raised when I came on board... but now that you're here!!!  ;D

Pence was key to transition actions/activities... he won't remain the teflonMan; Ryan "is said" to be legally intercepted in regards Russian money laundering into the RNC and GOP super-Pacs. C'mon, your conspiracy chops need some work here!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on February 13, 2018, 12:49:44 pm
You'll have to cite some MSM evidence of this.

Pence was brought in well after any of the "collusion" took place.

Implicating them sounds just as conspiratorial as people who say the Nunes Memo vindicates Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on February 13, 2018, 12:50:31 pm
It feels weird defending the GOP on this board when I'm Trump's biggest critic on the other board. Shows how down the middle I am.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 13, 2018, 12:54:51 pm
It feels weird defending Trump on this board when I'm his biggest critic on the other board. Shows how down the middle I am.

Oh I'd say there are a few who would give you a good run for your money on nailing Trump at the "other place".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 13, 2018, 01:02:18 pm
You'll have to cite some MSM evidence of this.

at this stage... is "evidence" the right word?

http://www.newsweek.com/will-mike-pence-be-impeached-or-resign-amid-russia-probe-trump-740623

https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/05/politics/mike-pence-russia-flynn-mueller/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on February 13, 2018, 01:04:35 pm
Crazy that many doubt Trump could even be Impeached while waldo has a GOP controlled congress get rid of the succession plan by 4 or 5 levels.

 :D

I guess if come next year around this time the Democrats have full Fillibuster-Proof control of both levels of congress, anything is possible.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 13, 2018, 01:28:54 pm
Crazy that many doubt Trump could even be Impeached while waldo has a GOP controlled congress get rid of the succession plan by 4 or 5 levels.

 :D

I guess if come next year around this time the Democrats have full Fillibuster-Proof control of both levels of congress, anything is possible.

now that's the Boges I recall!!! Not sure how fast you think things will move forward... notwithstanding the prevailing view that Mueller will not want to be viewed as influencing the November election, nor does he want to see the investigation results sullied by the current Republican led House/Senate. So, stay tuned for early next year - yes?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on February 13, 2018, 01:33:43 pm
now that's the Boges I recall!!! Not sure how fast you think things will move forward... notwithstanding the prevailing view that Mueller will not want to be viewed as influencing the November election, nor does he want to see the investigation results sullied by the current Republican led House/Senate. So, stay tuned for early next year - yes?

And the GOP want this thing over and done with before the 2018 elections. The longer this goes without anyone else from the inner circle not facing any consequences, the more the Fox News/Breibart will claim that there's no smoke and/or fire.

And if the DNC do take control of congress, who cares if Trump is president? His agenda (not that he has one beyond a Wall) will completely vanish.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 14, 2018, 03:38:00 am
Just thought I'd throw this out there.

"Can I just say this? As bad as y'all think Trump is, you would be worried about Pence," Manigault-Newman told her housemates seated around her. She continued, "We would be begging for days of Trump back if Pence became President, that's all I'm saying. He's extreme."
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/13/politics/omarosa-manigault-mike-pence-celebrity-big-brother/index.html

Pence is a very polished guy in a traditional politician sense. He's very good at seeming classy and dignified. But yes, he's extreme.

If Pence was in charge, I think people would be talking about his views. With Trump in charge, we're talking about whichever off-the-wall thing Trump did or said this week, we're talking about whether he's senile or suffering from dementia, and we're talking about Russia.   Trump's views, whatever they actually are, is so far down the list of his problems that it's not even worth worrying about. I don't think Trump even has any ideology, he just likes parades and golf and being a big-shot.  None of that would be the case if Pence was in charge... we wouldn't be talking about golfing and senility and parades and bizarre **** on Twitter... we'd be talking about Pence being a religious zealot.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 14, 2018, 09:35:18 am
It feels weird defending the GOP on this board when I'm Trump's biggest critic on the other board. Shows how down the middle I am.
Or it shows you're a conservative with conservative tendencies and the other board is full of crazy people.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on February 16, 2018, 02:50:56 pm
The man with the funny name has spoken out. In a new book, Reince Priebus talks about the chaos in the White House.

Reports of chaos and disorganization inside the White House through the first months of President Donald Trump’s administration are accurate, former chief of staff Reince Priebus said. In fact, Priebus said, those reports understated the truth of the Trump administration’s beginnings.
“Take everything you’ve heard and multiply it by 50,” Priebus told author Chris Whipple, whose book on White House chiefs of staff, “The Gatekeepers,” will be released in paperback next month with a new chapter on the Trump administration.


Certainly reassures me that we have nothing to fear.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/15/reince-priebus-white-house-chaos-411689
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 16, 2018, 05:00:37 pm
Hell, that Omarosa woman is apparently on Big Brother, where she told another “celebrity” that the White House is far worse than anyone could imagine. Priebus isn’t the only one who’s made that claim; he’s just another corroborater.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 17, 2018, 12:58:18 pm
Well now that Trump apparently broke the non disclosure agreement due to his lawyer speaking publicly about it, Stormy Daniels can now tell the story of their tryst. Between that and the latest indictments from Mueller, I imagine the west wing will be noisier than ever when Trump gets back from the golf course again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 17, 2018, 01:10:55 pm
Well now that Trump apparently broke the non disclosure agreement due to his lawyer speaking publicly about it she can now tell the story of their tryst.

That's frikin hilarious.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 17, 2018, 02:19:33 pm
I second that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 17, 2018, 05:59:35 pm
This is all a distraction from the fact that Congress and the Senate were nearly unanimous passing Russian sanctions and Trump still hasn’t signed them
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 17, 2018, 06:02:21 pm
Imagine the Governor General not giving assent to legislation passed almost unanimously by both chambers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on February 17, 2018, 06:06:18 pm
This is all a distraction from the fact that Congress and the Senate were nearly unanimous passing Russian sanctions and Trump still hasn’t signed them

You wouldn't sign it either if they had video of you doing something awful...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 17, 2018, 07:44:11 pm
You wouldn't sign it either if they had video of you doing something awful...

Naw it's Stormy Daniels who will have that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 18, 2018, 11:19:02 am
Trump is apparently on a Twitter rampage this morning.

One gathers that his biggest objection to these Russian indictments is that the idea that Russians helped elect him takes focus away from what a great candidate he was.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 18, 2018, 12:38:44 pm
Trump just doesn’t care if the Russians are subverting the system. As usual, it is all about him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 18, 2018, 01:07:35 pm
Trump is apparently on a Twitter rampage this morning.

One gathers that his biggest objection to these Russian indictments is that the idea that Russians helped elect him takes focus away from what a great candidate he was.

 -k

He is also trying to say that the FBI focus on the Russians is what allowed the latest school shooting in Florida to occur.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on February 18, 2018, 01:14:53 pm
He is also trying to say that the FBI focus on the Russians is what allowed the latest school shooting in Florida to occur.

I was expecting him to blame the FBI.  He's also blaming Obama and Democrats for the Russian hacking.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 18, 2018, 01:24:56 pm
I was expecting him to blame the FBI.  He's also blaming Obama and Democrats for the Russian hacking.

And as I understood it, this weekend in Florida was supposed to be focused on trying to console the loved ones of the school shooting victims. BUT, surprise surprise, he has succeeded in making it mostly all about him. And if you listened to his speech he made after 17 people got gunned down in a high school, he mentioned the word "gun" onetime during the whole time he spoke. He did spend a lot of the time trying to assign the blame solely to mental health. I wouldn't be surprised if his speech wasn't written for him by Wayne LaPierre.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 18, 2018, 04:06:23 pm
Trump decided not to gold today out of "respect" for the Florida victims. How terribly compassionate of him!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 18, 2018, 04:16:06 pm
Wow, Gates is now expected to plead guilty and testify against Manafort. They are falling like flies. What's that now, around 40 people who have either quit or been shown the door in the first year?

I would love to be a fly on the wall during Muellers interrogations.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on February 21, 2018, 09:09:13 am
Without the likes of BC2004 and taxme, this thread sucks. SYHTFOTW.  :P
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 21, 2018, 09:32:23 am
Without the likes of BC2004 and taxme, this thread sucks. SYHTFOTW.  :P

Trump is doing great! The economy is revved up! He is draining the swamp!  Why isn't anybody talking about how awesome the economy is doing??   Companies are coming back to America!  They are literally breaking down the wall we're building trying to relocated their factories back to America!


He should pardon Michael Flynn! Flynn is being railroaded by Mueller! It's malicious prosecution, Trump should pardon him. Trump should also pardon Rick Gates.


No collusion!  FAKE NEWS!

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on February 21, 2018, 09:41:30 am
Trump is doing great! The economy is revved up! He is draining the swamp!  Why isn't anybody talking about how awesome the economy is doing??   Companies are coming back to America!  They are literally breaking down the wall we're building trying to relocated their factories back to America!


He should pardon Michael Flynn! Flynn is being railroaded by Mueller! It's malicious prosecution, Trump should pardon him. Trump should also pardon Rick Gates.


No collusion!  FAKE NEWS!

 -k

You bring up good points Kimmy, but you forgot that he brought back Merry Christmas.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on February 21, 2018, 09:43:08 am
but you forgot that he brought back Merry Christmas.

Brought it back in a bigly way! :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 21, 2018, 07:50:07 pm
Got this off another board - said to be taken by an AP photog.

Trump's notes for talking to the students today - last point on the paper "I Hear You"   :o

(https://i.imgur.com/JSfW2aR.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on February 21, 2018, 07:57:09 pm
Trump's notes for talking to the students today - last point on the paper "I Hear You"   :o

That's ok, my mommy always reminded me to say thank you to my friend's parents when I go over to their house. Donald obviously has a good mommy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 21, 2018, 08:08:38 pm
He needs a note to tell him how to act like a human being.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 21, 2018, 08:46:58 pm
You'd think Trump supporters would at least have the self-awareness to feel stupid about criticizing Obama for using a teleprompter. This guy needs notes to say three simple words.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on February 21, 2018, 09:06:18 pm
You liberal snowflakes are just being bitchy. It couldn't have been easy for him to read so words many in a row that didn't even mention him, and some of them had multiple syllables! So lighten up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 21, 2018, 09:23:49 pm
You'd think Trump supporters would at least have the self-awareness to feel stupid about criticizing Obama for using a teleprompter. This guy needs notes to say three simple words.

It seems that his speech writers have a vocabulary that extends well above that of his, and I somehow doubt he spends a lot of time preparing. Hence he tends to sound sort of like a grade 2 student with a finger on the page reciting "see Spot run"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 21, 2018, 10:14:40 pm
Got this off another board - said to be taken by an AP photog.

Trump's notes for talking to the students today - last point on the paper "I Hear You"   :o

(https://i.imgur.com/JSfW2aR.jpg)

Not TRUMP! HANDS TOO LARGE! FAKE NEWS!!!

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 22, 2018, 01:14:55 pm
Trump said "I hear you" yesterday. Today he is further pledging his support for the NRA while he blathers on blaming gun violence on video games, movies, mental illness, anything but GUNS! I guess we know who he really hears.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 22, 2018, 02:15:30 pm
Just listened to the WH press briefing and apparently Trump is now promoting the idea of arming school teachers, (which apparently would be somewhere around 700,000), and providing them with them with a bonus once they are qualified to carry. So there is probably a billion bucks spent to put nearly a million more guns in circulation. I'm not sure a teacher walking around the classroom with a pistol on their hip would be the best thing for the teacher student relationship, and I doubt a lot of teachers would want that responsibility.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on February 22, 2018, 02:17:55 pm
Just listened to the WH press briefing and apparently Trump is now promoting the idea of arming school teachers, (which apparently would be somewhere around 700,000), and providing them with them with a bonus once they are qualified to carry. So there is probably a billion bucks spent to put nearly a million more guns in circulation. I'm not sure a teacher walking around the classroom with a pistol on their hip would be the best thing for the teacher student relationship, and I doubt a lot of teachers would want that responsibility.

This is just a distraction. There's no feasible way to ensure that every school had a teacher that is trained to use firearms. Just throwing this out there so people stop talking about the fact 18-year-olds can buy assault rifles.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on February 22, 2018, 02:19:23 pm
Quote
I doubt a lot of teachers would want that responsibility.

No kidding.  Because they're teachers.  Not armed guards.  Not cops.  Not military trained.  And subject to prosecution if they shoot somebody wrongly in the chaos of the moment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on February 22, 2018, 02:20:46 pm
Imagine the liability a school would have to carry if they're paying people to be armed guards?

It would show that America spares no expense when it comes to violence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on February 22, 2018, 02:21:48 pm
This is just a distraction. There's no feasible way to ensure that every school had a trained teacher that is trained. Just throwing this out there so people stop talking about the fact 18-year-olds can buy assault rifles.

Lots of people in the US are suggesting using retired and/or disabled vets to act as guards in schools.  I think that's a great suggestion - creates jobs, and you have trained people patrolling schools.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on February 22, 2018, 02:23:40 pm
No kidding.  Because they're teachers.  Not armed guards.  Not cops.  Not military trained.  And subject to prosecution if they shoot somebody wrongly in the chaos of the moment.

Not to mention a special target of the shooter and the cops who are looking for individuals who match the description of "somebody with a gun" when they show up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 22, 2018, 02:25:27 pm
No kidding.  Because they're teachers.  Not armed guards.  Not cops.  Not military trained.  And subject to prosecution if they shoot somebody wrongly in the chaos of the moment.

There was an interview just after the QP with a teacher who claimed to be a gun owner but who also said he wanted nothing to do with the idea of having one in his classroom. And he touched on your point as to being faced with the possibility of having to decide correctly whether or not to shoot one of his students.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 22, 2018, 03:28:32 pm
Lots of people in the US are suggesting using retired and/or disabled vets to act as guards in schools.  I think that's a great suggestion - creates jobs, and you have trained people patrolling schools.
There was already an armed guard at that school in Florida. It didn't work. But I can see how someone would think that putting a bunch of heavily armed PTSD-crazed vets in schools would surely make them a safe place for everyone. Brilliant idea.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 22, 2018, 03:40:21 pm
I felt like taking an AR 15 to my TV set after listening to this crazy **** NRA rep.   

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/dana-loesch-nra-media-love-mass-shootings-parkland-florida-cnn-townhall-a8223851.html


“Many in legacy media love mass shootings. You guys love it,” NRA representative Dana Loesch said during a speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC).

“I’m not saying you guys love the tragedy but I am saying you love the ratings,” she added. “Crying white mothers are ratings gold”.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 22, 2018, 03:54:12 pm
So how much Russian money have they gotten in the past few years? It seems to be doing its job.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 22, 2018, 04:33:04 pm
The fact a country has to arm its teachers to keep kids safe in their schools is an epic fail for its society. Never mind other developed countries, very few **** hole countries have to go that far.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on February 22, 2018, 05:10:01 pm
The fact a country has to arm its teachers to keep kids safe in their schools is an epic fail for its society. Never mind other developed countries, very few **** hole countries have to go that far.

No one is going to arm teachers. Talking about that, means you aren't talking about reasonable gun control.

It's like when Trump, or one of his surrogates (Sup Laura Ingraham) picks a fight with a black person. It distracts from more relevant news.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 22, 2018, 05:39:39 pm
No one is going to arm teachers. Talking about that, means you aren't talking about reasonable gun control.

It's like when Trump, or one of his surrogates (Sup Laura Ingraham) picks a fight with a black person. It distracts from more relevant news.


We'll see. I hope these kids don't back off on this issue and make it gun control's me too or civil rights movement.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 22, 2018, 09:27:20 pm
No one is going to arm teachers. Talking about that, means you aren't talking about reasonable gun control.

It's like when Trump, or one of his surrogates (Sup Laura Ingraham) picks a fight with a black person. It distracts from more relevant news.

Teachers are already armed in at least two state, Texas and Utah, and Alabama is close to joining the club. Brain dead idiots like Newt Gingrich are totally on board to expand the idea. Yep, a billion bucks and nearly a million more guns in circulation. Maybe we should askTrump to build a wall between Canada and the US so we don't get hit with stray bullets or shrapnel.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 22, 2018, 09:28:31 pm
No one is going to arm teachers. Talking about that, means you aren't talking about reasonable gun control.

It's like when Trump, or one of his surrogates (Sup Laura Ingraham) picks a fight with a black person. It distracts from more relevant news.

This is a good point.  Every time Trump says some crazy ****, people freak out and forget about the real issue.  If people are talking about armed teachers, they're not talking about gun control. If people are talking about Stormy Daniels, they're not talking about Russia.

-k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 22, 2018, 09:36:04 pm
I don't think anybody has forgotten about the issue, especially teachers who have responded so far unanimously saying no way they want to pack guns in their classrooms. I hold out hope that movements started by high school students such as "never again" will continue to gain momentum. Most of the students I have heard interviewed seem to have very strong commitments, and are very noticeably more articulate than Trump will ever be.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 22, 2018, 09:53:02 pm
It has been reported that the First National Bank of Omaha has cut ties with the NRA and will no longer be producing credit cards with the "Official Card of the NRA" stamped on them. So it would seem that one of the first dents these high school students have been able to make in the gun nut culture has **** all to do with anything moral, just dollars and cents. Somehow I am not surprised.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 23, 2018, 01:11:31 am
Mueller is kicking ass, Gates and Manafort will flip to try not to be sentenced to prison for the rest of their lives. The gong show continues while some people up here get their nickers in a knot over Trudeau's wardrobe. We should be counting our lucky stars, relatively speaking. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on February 23, 2018, 09:33:52 am
Anyone who thinks there is going to be any serious improvement in gun control under this president, with a Republican controlled house and senate are out of their minds. It doesn't matter if 17000 kids are gunned down, these Republicans will resist gun control while the money flows into their campaign coffers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on February 23, 2018, 09:38:29 am
Mueller is kicking ass, Gates and Manafort will flip to try not to be sentenced to prison for the rest of their lives. The gong show continues while some people up here get their nickers in a knot over Trudeau's wardrobe. We should be counting our lucky stars, relatively speaking.

We can't do both?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 26, 2018, 02:02:35 pm
The guy is unbelievable https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/trump-signs-report-rejecting-own-views-on-trade-canada-1.3819431

The spin FOX and his other devotees pup on this will be interesting. Or will they just ignore it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 27, 2018, 12:54:28 am
Trump claims he is brave enough to enter a school with a shooter at large even if he had no gun, but he won't brave the rain without hogging the umbrella from his wife and son.

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-protects-his-hair-giant-umbrella-leaving-melania-and-barron-bad-weather-782689
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on February 27, 2018, 01:40:30 am
Trump ... won't brave the rain without hogging the umbrella from his wife and son.

Give him a break, he has a hairpiece to protect.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 27, 2018, 10:20:51 am
Trump claims he is brave enough to enter a school with a shooter at large even if he had no gun, but he won't brave the rain without hogging the umbrella from his wife and son.

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-protects-his-hair-giant-umbrella-leaving-melania-and-barron-bad-weather-782689

Yes.  Cadet Bone-spurs, the 5-deferment draft-dodger, talking about what hero he is has to be one of the most hilariously absurd things ever. 

 "...and let me tell you, folks, it's a terrible thing for America that these darned bone spurs kept me out of Vietnam, because if I had been there I would have killed so many Charlies you wouldn't even believe it. If I had been there we would have won that war, folks, I guarantee it."


"...and let me tell you folks, I fought Vince McMahon at Wrestlemania 23, I hit him so hard you wouldn't believe it. I crushed him.  He has all those muscles from all those steroids he smokes but let me tell you folks I took him out, bigly. Watch the video, it's tremendous.  Later Hulk Hogan called me up and told, me, he said this, he said Mr Trump it's a good thing those bone spurs kept you out of WWF because we would have all been running scared, he said, and I believe him, it's true."


 "...believe me, folks, if I had been at the Battle of the Pelenor Fields, that thing would have gone down a lot differently. I would have been out there punching out Mumakil with my bare hands. I'd kill so many orcs and Haradrim you wouldn't even believe it. I would have been a tremendous Ring-bearer, folks. I would have told those midgets, shut up and give me that thing, I'm taking this to Mount Doom. I'd just march up there and say you know what, Sauron, I think I'm gonna keep this ring and drop you in the volcano instead. And that's what I'd have done. I'd throw Sauron in the volcano, and keep the Ring and use it to be a tremendous, very very great ruler. That's what I'd have done. That's because I'm smart, smarter than Gandalf and wiser than Elrond. That's how I'd have done it. I'd build a very tall tower in Minas Tirith, a Trump Tower that serve the most excellent taco bowl in middle earth from the Trump Grill, and I'd build a big beautiful wall to keep the orcs from coming over the border from Mordor and stealing our jobs. I would make Saruman the head of the EPA, we would fire all the ovens in Middle Earth with beautiful clean coal mined right here in Gondor, it would create so many jobs. I would renegotiate the trade agreement with Rohan, because they are killing us on trade, folks, our trade deal with Rohan is the worst trade deal in history, you wouldn't believe how bad it is. ..."


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on February 27, 2018, 11:13:35 am
Kimmy, don't you know that girls aren't supposed to be LoTR geeks?  :P
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 27, 2018, 12:21:18 pm
Yes.  Cadet Bone-spurs, the 5-deferment draft-dodger, talking about what hero he is has to be one of the most hilariously absurd things ever. 

 "...and let me tell you, folks, it's a terrible thing for America that these darned bone spurs kept me out of Vietnam, because if I had been there I would have killed so many Charlies you wouldn't even believe it. If I had been there we would have won that war, folks, I guarantee it."


"...and let me tell you folks, I fought Vince McMahon at Wrestlemania 23, I hit him so hard you wouldn't believe it. I crushed him.  He has all those muscles from all those steroids he smokes but let me tell you folks I took him out, bigly. Watch the video, it's tremendous.  Later Hulk Hogan called me up and told, me, he said this, he said Mr Trump it's a good thing those bone spurs kept you out of WWF because we would have all been running scared, he said, and I believe him, it's true."


 "...believe me, folks, if I had been at the Battle of the Pelenor Fields, that thing would have gone down a lot differently. I would have been out there punching out Mumakil with my bare hands. I'd kill so many orcs and Haradrim you wouldn't even believe it. I would have been a tremendous Ring-bearer, folks. I would have told those midgets, shut up and give me that thing, I'm taking this to Mount Doom. I'd just march up there and say you know what, Sauron, I think I'm gonna keep this ring and drop you in the volcano instead. And that's what I'd have done. I'd throw Sauron in the volcano, and keep the Ring and use it to be a tremendous, very very great ruler. That's what I'd have done. That's because I'm smart, smarter than Gandalf and wiser than Elrond. That's how I'd have done it. I'd build a very tall tower in Minas Tirith, a Trump Tower that serve the most excellent taco bowl in middle earth from the Trump Grill, and I'd build a big beautiful wall to keep the orcs from coming over the border from Mordor and stealing our jobs. I would make Saruman the head of the EPA, we would fire all the ovens in Middle Earth with beautiful clean coal mined right here in Gondor, it would create so many jobs. I would renegotiate the trade agreement with Rohan, because they are killing us on trade, folks, our trade deal with Rohan is the worst trade deal in history, you wouldn't believe how bad it is. ..."


 -k

And his ~37% of knuckle dragging conservative supporters still cling to him like **** to a Hudson's Bay blanket.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on February 27, 2018, 12:31:04 pm
And his ~37% of knuckle dragging conservative supporters still cling to him like **** to a Hudson's Bay blanket.

I think you mean, "like smallpox to a Hudson's Bay blanket."   :-\
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 27, 2018, 12:41:44 pm
I think you mean, "like smallpox to a Hudson's Bay blanket."

Quote
Indians allied with the French ignored the terms of a surrender worked out between the British and the French, broke into the garrison hospital and killed and scalped a number of patients, some of them suffering from smallpox. The blankets and clothing the Indians looted from the patients in the hospital and corpses in the cemetery, carried back to their villages, reportedly touched off a smallpox epidemic
...
Whether any individual in the real West ever tried to spread smallpox in blankets is unsubstantiated and debatable. Nevertheless, the practice has made it way onto film as recently as 2006. In a memorable scene from the Emmy-winning TV miniseries Broken Trail, Robert Duvall’s character effectively deals with “Smallpox Bob,” a despicable white trader who sells infected blankets to the Plains Indians.
http://www.historynet.com/smallpox-in-the-blankets.htm
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 27, 2018, 12:48:45 pm
And his ~37% of knuckle dragging conservative supporters still cling to him like **** to a Hudson's Bay blanket.
They aren't conservatives. At all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 27, 2018, 12:55:14 pm
I think you mean, "like smallpox to a Hudson's Bay blanket."   :-\

We used the former to relate something to what happened if a baby wrapped in a Hudson's Bay had a diaper blow out. I imagine there are many variations of derogatory comments aimed at Trump once you get outside the 37%. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 27, 2018, 01:43:44 pm
kimmy, do you do any writing? You should.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on February 27, 2018, 01:48:27 pm
kimmy, do you do any writing? You should.

She only does Game of Thrones Fan Fiction.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on February 27, 2018, 02:15:26 pm
She only does Game of Thrones Fan Fiction.

She should do social and political commentary. She's better at it than most of those I read in media, who are frankly boring most of the time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 27, 2018, 11:14:34 pm
Kimmy, don't you know that girls aren't supposed to be LoTR geeks?  :P

On the list of things that I do that girls aren't supposed to do, I'm not sure that's even in the top 10, SJ.

kimmy, do you do any writing? You should.

I dabble in a few different things...

She only does Game of Thrones Fan Fiction.

I'm flattered that you remembered the short-lived saga of Yara Greyjoy, Saucy Pirate Wench! But wait, there's more!

I'm also working on a TV script based on Michael's adventures in the corporate world, called "The Facilitator". Check it out in this thread:  https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/general-discussion/unemployment-culture/?message=14062

I'm going to pitch this to Netflix and CraveTV.

She should do social and political commentary. She's better at it than most of those I read in media, who are frankly boring most of the time.

Well, I'm cute, blonde, and vapid, so maybe there's a spot for me at Fox News!

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on March 02, 2018, 03:11:07 am
Something quite remarkable happened on Wednesday: Trump made sense.

There was a televised meeting on gun control, and Trump was enthusiastically in support of ideas like raising the age to own firearms, strengthening background checks, and taking guns away from crazy-people.  These are ideas that are considered blasphemous by the NRA and the bulk of the Republican congress.  And Trump apparently mocked politicians at the meeting for being too scared of the NRA to do anything on gun control.

The NRA was livid and the conservative media bubble called Trump "the gun-grabber in chief." 

It's possible that Trump genuinely feels upset by these events and genuinely feels like he ought to do something. It's possible that Trump just said this stuff because he knows the cameras were rolling and wanted to look good.   Perhaps Trump has (as Ralph Klein once put it) figured out where the parade is heading and decided to get there first.

Whichever the case, I thought it should be recorded here that just for once, Trump took the right side of an issue.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on March 02, 2018, 05:23:23 am
Whichever the case, I thought it should be recorded here that just for once, Trump took the right side of an issue.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Will

1) The republican base support Trump and leave the NRA in the cold? If so the GOP will be the party owned by Trump;
2) The republican base rejects Trump and Trump backs down? If so it would confirm Trump as a puppet;
3) The republican base rejects Trump and Trump cuts a deal with the Democrats? If so Trump days are numbered;

1) is the worse for the US and the world because it will cement Trump's grip on power and likely ensure his re-election and the rapid descent into a global trade war.
2) Is status quo;
3) Would be most interesting and could mean impeachment sooner than later;
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on March 02, 2018, 08:19:56 am
Haha, guess put me down for hoping the GOP is owned by the NRA since, as a Canadian, I don’t give a flying f^ck about their gun deaths1 and would very much appreciate a less facist, corrupt, unstable ... POTUS. 




1 Not really true. The more the merrier since that is the kind of results idiotic voters deserve for voting for idiotic policy makers. And also what idiotic non-voters deserve for not voting.  Reap what you sow f^ckers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on March 02, 2018, 09:28:54 am
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Will

1) The republican base support Trump and leave the NRA in the cold? If so the GOP will be the party owned by Trump;
2) The republican base rejects Trump and Trump backs down? If so it would confirm Trump as a puppet;
3) The republican base rejects Trump and Trump cuts a deal with the Democrats? If so Trump days are numbered;

4) maybe Trump will forget he ever said anything about gun control. "Gun control? I didn't say nothing about that. Fake news!"  The NRA is claiming he's already backing down. Sarah Suckerbee saying he didn't make any specific promises but still in favor of gun control. Trump's a salesman, and he seems to give people whatever pitch they want to hear.
5) maybe it's an ingenious plot to strengthen the midterm election chances of House Republicans (ie, "we need more Republicans in congress to protect your gun rights!!")

It seems like his instinct is to tell people what he thinks they want to hear, as opposed to people like Ted Cruz who will try to convince you of the merits of their view. His instinct is that people want to hear reassuring words in regard to gun control, and so that is what he is providing. 

The Republican base isn't a monolith... and there's a growing portion of it that supports common-sense gun-control measures, (and environmental measures, and gay rights...)  There might be more support for moderate gun-control measures among the Republican base than most people think. Maybe Trump has a sense that he can bypass the NRA and the congressmen and speak directly to individual Republicans who support moderate gun-control.

I think the Republican extremism on gun-control is a byproduct of being beholden to the NRA to deliver dollars to congressional campaigns. (similar, oil and coal vs environmental issues, evangelical leaders vs gay rights issues.) These positions aren't a function of everybody in the party supporting them, they're a product of being beholden to these major tent-poles who could cause serious damage if they withdrew support, and I think a lot of Republicans kind of hold their nose and put up with those positions because on the whole they still support the party.  Maybe the NRA's value as one of those tent-poles is starting to decrease.

1) is the worse for the US and the world because it will cement Trump's grip on power and likely ensure his re-election and the rapid descent into a global trade war.
2) Is status quo;
3) Would be most interesting and could mean impeachment sooner than later;

This will be an interesting issue to follow.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on March 02, 2018, 11:17:42 am
Something quite remarkable happened on Wednesday: Trump made sense.

There was a televised meeting on gun control, and Trump was enthusiastically in support of ideas like raising the age to own firearms, strengthening background checks, and taking guns away from crazy-people.  These are ideas that are considered blasphemous by the NRA and the bulk of the Republican congress.  And Trump apparently mocked politicians at the meeting for being too scared of the NRA to do anything on gun control.

The NRA was livid and the conservative media bubble called Trump "the gun-grabber in chief." 

It's possible that Trump genuinely feels upset by these events and genuinely feels like he ought to do something. It's possible that Trump just said this stuff because he knows the cameras were rolling and wanted to look good.   Perhaps Trump has (as Ralph Klein once put it) figured out where the parade is heading and decided to get there first.

Whichever the case, I thought it should be recorded here that just for once, Trump took the right side of an issue.

 -k

He did the same thing a few weeks ago regarding DACA and two days later called countries shitholes.

He has the attention span of a knat. He probably thought panting the Republicans would get heat of Kush and his daughter.

And because that didn't work, now he's tanking the stock market starting a trade war.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on March 02, 2018, 04:03:22 pm
Whichever the case, I thought it should be recorded here that just for once, Trump took the right side of an issue.

Not to worry, he will walk it back soon.

Why looky here, the White House said today that he didn't really mean universal background checks. I guess he is afraid of the NRA.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 02, 2018, 07:28:29 pm
Not to worry, he will walk it back soon.

Why looky here, the White House said today that he didn't really mean universal background checks. I guess he is afraid of the NRA.

They also no longer think pushing back the age of purchase is a good idea either.

Meanwhile, Trump is determined to impose heavy tariffs on imports of steel and aluminum, threatening the jobs of 6.5 million Americans who work in manufacturing products which use a lot of metal on behalf of the 100,000 people who work in the steel industry - which is currently enjoying multi-year high prices and big profits from Trump's tax cuts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on March 04, 2018, 01:27:42 pm
He did the same thing a few weeks ago regarding DACA and two days later called countries shitholes.

He has the attention span of a knat. He probably thought panting the Republicans would get heat of Kush and his daughter.

And because that didn't work, now he's tanking the stock market starting a trade war.

Maybe so, but I didn't want to be the person that won't acknowledge the time when he actually says the right thing.

Who knows, maybe his  ego will get pumped up by people making note of his position and he will be inspired to do more.

Also, making note of what he said this time will make people remember what he said when he changes his mind later.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on March 05, 2018, 01:18:12 pm
I think right now today I have to question Trump's sanity. I mean more so than usual. Clearly his comments on steel are going to harm the US as much as they do Canada. Also his comments about Canadian farming and His classic lack of impulse control and untreated attention deficit hyperactivity disorder which he clearly manifests along with other features of some kind of personality disorder are causing panic with his own Commerce Dept. caUGHT FLAT FOOT BY HIM this week. I think the last President with such pronounced adhd was in fact Theodore Roosevelt, and in his day he got away with it, because he had no twitter where the impulsive statements would be broadcast. Instead he was known for bombastic speeches that roamed all over the place unfocused but were full of brilliant analysis and comments that
people loved. Theodore Roosevelt had a mind that saw into the future and he predicted strikes with labour unions, stock market crashes, banking problems, long before they happened. He was actually quite brilliant in his ability to predict the future unlike Trump. Trump reacts. He's a classic reactionary and takes all comments as personal attacks to his ego. He is out of control. He is triggering an unnecessary trade war with his closest allies while threatening to trigger a war in the Korean Peninsula. Something has to give. He is a nut case thinking his US first policy will not hurt the US.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 05, 2018, 03:05:31 pm
Sam Nunberg, another dickhead Trump follower. If he wants to tear up a subpoena on camera, let him do so and then throw his stupid ass in jail
fo evah! What a stupid prick and yet another indication of how ludicrous this "administration" has become.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 05, 2018, 06:54:19 pm
Sam Nunberg, another dickhead Trump follower. If he wants to tear up a subpoena on camera, let him do so and then throw his stupid ass in jail
fo evah! What a stupid prick and yet another indication of how ludicrous this "administration" has become.

I love how he said it would be funny if the feds arrested him. Yeah! A lot of people will be laughing at the sight of him doing the perp walk in handcuffs.

He's got a life, you know, he can't be spending eighty hours sorting through emails!

Let's see 'sort by name' click. Now everything Bannon sent him between this date and this date. Cut and paste. Done
He won't have a life after Friday unless it's doing laundry in a federal prison.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on March 05, 2018, 11:16:53 pm
He has apparently been on TV all day destroying his life for anybody who'll interview him. It sounds like he's completely off his rocker. He also called Sarah Suckerbee Sanders a "fat slob", then added that her appearance is irrelevant because she's working for a guy with a 30% approval rating. Sanders has been trying to downplay Nunberg's role in the campaign, and he says doesn't know anything about it. He suggested she shut up, then said "in fact I'm warning her to shut up."

More importantly, Nunberg says Trump knew about the meeting with Donny Jr and the Russians:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/what-the-fck-former-trump-aide-sam-nunbergs-mueller-meltdown-leaves-friends-petrified?ref=home

Nunberg also said "yeah, I'll probably end up cooperating" with Mueller.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/ex-trump-aide-sam-nunberg-ill-end-up-cooperating-with-mueller


Here's Erin Burnett asking him whether he's drunk or high:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q2pE1YWg-g

A meltdown like this is actually a little worrying. This guy could end up dead by his own hands, or somebody else's, before he gets a chance to tell Mueller anything.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 05, 2018, 11:28:14 pm
And apparently he was more or less pissed drunk. "How to win friends and influence people". I wonder how this is ricocheting around the west wing?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on March 06, 2018, 12:47:26 am
Who here thinks the steel tariff bullshit is just a distraction and will go the way of the ripping up NAFTA?  Remember, how he all of a sudden remembered how much he likes Trudeau and decided not to rip up NAFTA but for a quick minute he managed to get everyone talking about something other than his chaos presidency?

I could be wrong, but something tells me he's not going through with this either.  Or if he does, he'll make exemptions and Canada will be one.

What do you guys think?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 06, 2018, 01:05:58 am
Who here thinks the steel tariff bullshit is just a distraction and will go the way of the ripping up NAFTA?  Remember, how he all of a sudden remembered how much he likes Trudeau and decided not to rip up NAFTA but for a quick minute he managed to get everyone talking about something other than his chaos presidency?

I could be wrong, but something tells me he's not going through with this either.  Or if he does, he'll make exemptions and Canada will be one.

What do you guys think?

I would tend to agree the tarrif crap is simply a typically Trumpian transparent attempt to up the ante on nafta. We also hear he was foaming at the mouth in anger over some damn thing or other when he put the idea forward. If he actually sticks to the idea what it will achieve is putting the cost of Boeing airplane up just as his softwood lumber tariff increased the cost of building a house in the US. Way to go Donny boy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on March 06, 2018, 09:12:23 am
Of course it's a negotiating tactic. They basically said as much yesterday. Canada can avoid the tariffs by giving the US what they want.  It's the updated version of "I'm gonna rip it up!  ... well, maybe not, if we get a good deal." It has nothing to do with protecting US producers from unfair Canadian practices.

From what I was hearing yesterday, the US barely even has an aluminum industry to protect, and imports massive amounts of aluminum from Canada primarily because they can't produce their own.  These tariffs will be a tax on American companies that need Canadian aluminum. They'll keep buying our aluminum, but they'll pay more.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 06, 2018, 10:28:58 am
Nothing to do with national security which is the pretence he is using to impose them. Unless of course in Trumpland, national security can be bargained away as part of a trade negotiation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 06, 2018, 11:38:30 am
Canada's position with NAFTA should be hic Rhodus, hic salta. In fact, this should be everyone's position with everything Trump and his White House says.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 06, 2018, 12:33:50 pm
Canada's position with NAFTA should be hic Rhodus, hic salta. In fact, this should be everyone's position with everything Trump and his White House says.

You might have to simple that down a bit for Trump to get it. Maybe "put up or shut up" might work?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 06, 2018, 04:47:34 pm
And another one bites the dust. Trump's chief financial adviser Gary Cohn has announced his resignation. Apparently he isn't happy with the latest tariffs on steel/aluminum. and then Kelly Anne Conway has been accused of violating the Hatch Act on two occasions over her comments regarding Alabama elections. The maintenance people at the WH must be kept fairly busy lubing up those revolving doors.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 07, 2018, 04:27:49 pm
Of course it's a negotiating tactic. They basically said as much yesterday. Canada can avoid the tariffs by giving the US what they want.  I

Remember that all Trump wants is to be able to claim a victory - real or not, tiny or not. Doesn't matter.
From reading/watching the US news and business shows/sites, this is mostly about China. There is concern China is evading existing US tariffs and rules by funneling steel through Canada and Mexico, mostly Mexico. In that event, it seems to me what we need to do is to tighten our control of Chinese steel imports a bit to make sure none gets to the US, let the US know it, and then Trump can exempt us by waving that aloft as the great victory his tough talking brings.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 07, 2018, 04:34:41 pm
Nothing to do with national security which is the pretence he is using to impose them. Unless of course in Trumpland, national security can be bargained away as part of a trade negotiation.

Sounds like Trump is going after the practice of trans-shipping these materials, especially steel from China, and if that issue is addressed Canada and Mexico will be exempted.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 08, 2018, 04:34:55 pm
"Trump has become convinced in his discussions with Canadian prime minister Trudeau that he can squeeze Canada and Mexico, well, primarily Canada."

Heard on CNBC during a discussion of Trump's steel tarrifs and NAFTA negotiations.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on March 08, 2018, 04:43:13 pm
I guess Trump makes a good point that our Supply Management system hurts their farmers and their access to our market. What's good for the goose? I'd like to get cheaper dairy in Canada.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 08, 2018, 04:53:12 pm
Trump's tariffs are a rather transparent attempt to to try and leverage the NAFTA talks. There are to be negotiations on that for the next 4-6 weeks. 4-6 weeks in that administration is a hell of a long time. There are so many other issues at Trump's doorstep, and given his attention span, he will likely have forgotten all about it long before then. More people leaving the WH, Mueller getting closer every day, and of course Stormy ain't going anywhere either.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on March 08, 2018, 06:24:13 pm
Trump has already forgotten, he is now onto a social with a fellow tinpot dictator.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on March 08, 2018, 08:10:24 pm
Trump's tariffs are a rather transparent attempt to to try and leverage the NAFTA talks.

It's like the guy read a Negotiating For Dummies book and thinks he's the smartest guy in the room. 

Republican senator Jeff Flake is already talking about creating a bill to reverse the Trump tariffs.  US industry doesn't want NAFTA ripped up, and they'll certainly be talking to their house reps and senators.  I think everybody, including Trudeau, knows that Trump's tough-guy act is going to get cut at the ankles by his own congress and senate.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 08, 2018, 08:30:30 pm
It's like the guy read a Negotiating For Dummies book and thinks he's the smartest guy in the room. 

Republican senator Jeff Flake is already talking about creating a bill to reverse the Trump tariffs.  US industry doesn't want NAFTA ripped up, and they'll certainly be talking to their house reps and senators.  I think everybody, including Trudeau, knows that Trump's tough-guy act is going to get cut at the ankles by his own congress and senate.

 -k

as the old adage goes, "money talks and bullshit walks". He will probably only succeed in pissing off his allies, especially in the EU and further isolate the US.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on March 08, 2018, 10:14:33 pm
"Trump has become convinced in his discussions with Canadian prime minister Trudeau that he can squeeze Canada and Mexico, well, primarily Canada."

Heard on CNBC during a discussion of Trump's steel tarrifs and NAFTA negotiations.

OK...   or Trudeau made Trump back down on tariffs.  I don’t think either scenario is true....   but you can spin it whichever way you want. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on March 09, 2018, 11:40:57 am
Trump has already forgotten, he is now onto a social with a fellow tinpot dictator.

Nobel Peace Prize Winner Donald Trump. . .  :-[
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 09, 2018, 11:23:09 pm
After nearly 200 days of nonsensical bafflegab, wouldn't it be refreshing to hear some intelligent discussion from a POTUS? Well maybe we will with this.

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/politics/news/a9694/what-barack-obama-is-doing-now/

Trump must be worried his ratings could actually decline further.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 10, 2018, 07:17:31 am
And if you, like me, thought there was some kind of breakthrough on NK, you are wrong.  Trump didn't understand the mechanics or optics around meeting Kim Jun Un:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/03/never-mind-the-north-korea-meeting-trump-was-just-babbling.html?utm_campaign=nym&utm_source=fb&utm_medium=s1

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2018/03/09/damage-control-at-white-house-to-reverse-trumps-stunning-blunder/?utm_term=.9bd257af9d67

Quote
In other words, because Trump has both a massive ego and virtually no understanding of foreign policy, he foolishly leaped at the bait dangled by the South and North Koreans. Putting Kim Jong Un, a human rights criminal whose regime effectively murdered Otto Warmbier and who is in violation of multiple United Nations declarations, on the stage with the American president would have been a gift of immense proportions to Kim. It would cast him as a normal leader on the international stage, who — if Trump had his way — achieved a publicity coup without giving up anything.

Even worse — until saner heads prevailed — it  would have been letting Trump in the room with Kim without North Korea doing much of anything. North Korea’s aim aside from regime preservation (which it believes requires nukes) is to use nuclear blackmail to force U.S. troops from South Korea, the first step in its long-stated goal of reunifying the peninsula under its rule of terror.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on March 10, 2018, 10:13:32 am
And if you, like me, thought there was some kind of breakthrough on NK, you are wrong.  Trump didn't understand the mechanics or optics around meeting Kim Jun Un:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/03/never-mind-the-north-korea-meeting-trump-was-just-babbling.html?utm_campaign=nym&utm_source=fb&utm_medium=s1

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2018/03/09/damage-control-at-white-house-to-reverse-trumps-stunning-blunder/?utm_term=.9bd257af9d67

Better just to nuke him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 10, 2018, 11:16:53 am
Best headline:

White House: Never Mind the North Korea Meeting, Trump Was Just Babbling

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/white-house-never-mind-the-north-korea-meeting-trump-was-just-babbling/ar-BBK3Xpi?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 11, 2018, 09:01:18 am
That's why I posted it two above yours...

I won't like, I'm a little hurt that you didn't read my post.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 11, 2018, 10:50:27 am
It's OK Micheal, I liked yours.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 12, 2018, 12:23:57 pm
So Trump prattles on denigrating/mocking what he refers to "blue ribbon panels" on Saturday. So the next day he has to finally try to deflect the focus away from gun control so what does he do, he appoints a "blue ribbon panel" of course. The American people (other than the obvious knuckle draggers) must be getting god damn tired of his bullshit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 12, 2018, 02:14:02 pm
I guess Trump makes a good point that our Supply Management system hurts their farmers and their access to our market. What's good for the goose? I'd like to get cheaper dairy in Canada.

As usual, Trump is full of it.  We already buy five times as much dairy from the US as we export to them.

http://aimis-simia-cdic-ccil.agr.gc.ca/rp/index-eng.cfm?report_format_type_code=31&action=gR&signature=94721CB4C88C07C64E45A6036D3E3F33&pdctc=&r=136&pTpl=1&btnDownload=View

http://aimis-simia-cdic-ccil.agr.gc.ca/rp/index-eng.cfm?report_format_type_code=31&action=gR&signature=0AFB80043F01F8898915D575B3AE3903&pdctc=&r=139&pTpl=1&btnDownload=View
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 12, 2018, 04:05:27 pm
Trump just imposed steel and aluminum tariffs on everyone but Canada Mexico and Australia which will drive up US prices. Canada will now get paid more for its steel and aluminum because of it. Go Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 12, 2018, 06:35:48 pm
Trump just imposed steel and aluminum tariffs on everyone but Canada Mexico and Australia which will drive up US prices. Canada will now get paid more for its steel and aluminum because of it. Go Trump.

Doesn't work that way. It could, however, drive more business our way if other imports to the US become more expensive than ours.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 12, 2018, 06:42:11 pm
Doesn't work that way. It could, however, drive more business our way if other imports to the US become more expensive than ours.

Why not? Fewer competitors usually means higher prices. If EU steel is taxed at 25%, we could raise prices 15 % and still be more competitive.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 12, 2018, 06:53:03 pm
Why not? Fewer competitors usually means higher prices. If EU steel is taxed at 25%, we could raise prices 15 % and still be more competitive.

And Americans would continue to get screwed by their "leader". Ala softwood lumber.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 13, 2018, 11:21:56 am
So the WH revolving door lurches into action yet again and out goes Tillerson. I guess as accurate as it was, calling the boss a moron isn't good for job longevity. I imagine Rex will survive.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 13, 2018, 12:02:01 pm
Not many adults left in the swamp.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 13, 2018, 12:09:55 pm
As is usual, Trump fired him in a tweet. It's ironic that Trump is most known for the catch-phrase "You're Fired" said in a stern voice from behind a desk. But that was a character he played, with the lines written for him. In the real world Trump is a spineless weasel, without the courage to fire anyone face to face. Instead he sends someone else to do it. He's the same with insulting people over twitter and behind their backs, but never daring to do so in person. He says all sorts of nasty things about Mexico - until he goes to Mexico, then he turns into a wimp. He calls out China, but sucks up to them in person. He says bad things about Muslims, but when he goes to Saudi Arabia he folds like an umbrella. He calls various politicians, Democrats and Republicans names in his speeches and in twitter, but never dares do so in person.

Gutless and no class.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 13, 2018, 12:19:33 pm
Not many adults left in the swamp.
[he swamp./quote]

Trump doesn't like adults it seems. "Yes Men" on the other hand are welcome in the swamp. Pompeo certainly fills the bill.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on March 13, 2018, 05:59:58 pm
Trump signals support for torture in his choice to lead the CIA. Gina Haspel was directly involved in the secret prison in Thailand.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 13, 2018, 06:09:48 pm
Just heard this line on the tv news, "trump has now had a longer affair with a **** star than he has with his secretary of state". I'm waiting for him to take his turn saying "I did not have sexual relations with that woman".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 13, 2018, 06:11:23 pm
Trump signals support for torture in his choice to lead the CIA. Gina Haspel was directly involved in the secret prison in Thailand.

Oh yeah but it's not called torture any more. It's now "enhanced interrogation". The difference apparently is "bigly"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 13, 2018, 06:43:33 pm
Trump signals support for torture in his choice to lead the CIA. Gina Haspel was directly involved in the secret prison in Thailand.

I think what he signals is his preference for a career bureaucrat who will follow orders and not question them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 13, 2018, 06:51:11 pm
I think what he signals is his preference for a career bureaucrat who will follow orders and not question them.

That of course goes without saying but the torture issue is going to be big fodder for the dems.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 13, 2018, 08:03:49 pm
Trump signals support for torture in his choice to lead the CIA. Gina Haspel was directly involved in the secret prison in Thailand.

Back then the whole country including most of Congress was baying for this kind of action. From what I have heard, she is extremely qualified and well respected within the agency. Maybe one of Trump's better appointments.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 14, 2018, 12:21:27 am
Well it appears PA. has elected a Democrat to congress. It will be interesting to see how Trump tries to 'splain that since he stumped for the historically favored GOP candidate. Maybe Saccone wasn't handsome enough contrary to Trumps evaluation. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on March 14, 2018, 12:29:42 am
Well it appears PA. has elected a Democrat to congress.

I thought absentee ballots were till pending, and theoretically could tip the scales even if unlikely. The results are close enough that I am sure we will be hearing screams for recounts.

Regardless, this is still 20 points lower for the Republicans than in 2016 so obviously they will be in trouble in the mid-terms.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 14, 2018, 12:48:44 am
I thought absentee ballots were till pending, and theoretically could tip the scales even if unlikely. The results are close enough that I am sure we will be hearing screams for recounts.

Regardless, this is still 20 points lower for the Republicans than in 2016 so obviously they will be in trouble in the mid-terms.

Yes from what I understand absentee ballots could tip it but unlikely to do so due to the districts involved tend to be Lamb supporters. Although I've currently had a couple of beers and all the maps and stats are more complicated than I want to folow just now. Lamb has made a speech were he claims victory so he seems confident. I guess whichever the final count goes Trump is hoping it might take "Stormy" off the headlines. You know, in case firing Tillerson doesn't.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 14, 2018, 09:58:11 am
Well it appears PA. has elected a Democrat to congress. It will be interesting to see how Trump tries to 'splain that since he stumped for the historically favored GOP candidate.

Did he? He went over there and gave a speech but he only talked about himself. Trump stumps for Trump. Nobody else matters.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on March 14, 2018, 05:24:39 pm
Latest rumour is that the Donald is going to replace the secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs with....
...
wait for it ....
...
Pete Hegseth of Fox & Friends

It hasn't happened yet, so maybe it is a bad joke, but I wouldn't put it past him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on March 14, 2018, 05:29:31 pm
Sean Hannity

2008: "willingness to meet with North Korea is one of the most disturbing displays of Obama’s lack of foreign policy experience."

2018: "willingness to meet with North Korea is a huge foreign policy win."

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 14, 2018, 06:31:56 pm
Latest rumour is that the Donald is going to replace the secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs with....
...
wait for it ....
...
Pete Hegseth of Fox & Friends

It hasn't happened yet, so maybe it is a bad joke, but I wouldn't put it past him.

Nobody cares about that. The important rumor is replacing HR McMcaster with that idiot John Bolger as his national security advisor.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 14, 2018, 07:01:02 pm
Nobody cares about that. The important rumor is replacing HR McMcaster with that idiot John Bolger as his national security advisor.

Nobody cares about that. Replacing Tillerson with the idiot Pompeo is what's really scary and then it looks like Sessions might be next. Not that I'm a big fan of Sessions, but Trump calling him "Mr. Magoo" because he sensibly chose to recuse himself points out what a dolt Trump is.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 15, 2018, 11:20:05 am
Nobody cares about that. Replacing Tillerson with the idiot Pompeo is what's really scary and then it looks like Sessions might be next. Not that I'm a big fan of Sessions, but Trump calling him "Mr. Magoo" because he sensibly chose to recuse himself points out what a dolt Trump is.

Replacing Tillerson with Pompeo is important as it signals a more hard line approach to dealing with foreign states. Replacing McMaster with Bolger doubles down on that, and if Kelly goes too, as rumors suggest, that will basically mean everyone who acts as a brake on Trump's imbecilic foreign policy beliefs and desires will be gone.

But the clown in Veterans Affairs just doesn't matter any more than that idiot in Education.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 15, 2018, 11:28:59 am
Nobody cares about that. The important rumor is replacing HR McMcaster with that idiot John Bolger as his national security advisor.

waldo correction: Bolton, not Bolger... Bolton; aka pornstache!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on March 16, 2018, 01:26:03 am
waldo correction: Bolton, not Bolger... Bolton; aka pornstache!

It's not even a ****-stache. It's a Wilford Brimley.  John Bolton looks like Wilfred Brimley's brother from back in Bumblefuck Missourah.



There are some who believe that McMaster, Kelly, and Mattis have been working as a tag-team to baby-sit Trump and keep him from blowing up the world or something equally stupid. This has been dubbed the "Three Generals And A Baby" theory.  Now McMaster is gone, and Kelly may soon be out as well. 

Losing this behind-the-scenes stability may bode well for people who want to see Trump implode quickly... but I am worried about what might happen without anybody there to keep the big orange toddler in line.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on March 17, 2018, 11:00:43 am
Nobody cares about that. Replacing Tillerson with the idiot Pompeo is what's really scary and then it looks like Sessions might be next. Not that I'm a big fan of Sessions, but Trump calling him "Mr. Magoo" because he sensibly chose to recuse himself points out what a dolt Trump is.

Hang on. Bolger is as dangerous as Pompeo for the very same reasons. They both belief in first strike and in taking out North Korea. That's what is worrisome if for no other reason he's probably appointing both days before an alleged meeting with the fat boy in Sweden?

You see how many National Security advisors Trump has fired, like 5. Tillerson now? Before that his economic advisor?  Trump is a  lunatic. He is truly a national security risk. You don't turn over that many advisors unless you have serious behavioural disorders.

What is wierd is Putin is out of control. He brazenly shoots off his missiles posturing for his fixed election at home. He brazenly for the second time poisons someone in Britain. He announces to the world the US no longer matters and is no longer a world power....and Trump? Have you heard Trump say one word about Putin? Clearly Putin has dirt on Trump. Lol Melania was always rumoured to be a KGB operative who used her access to industrial secrets as a high class escort to big fat business boys before she landed Donald Duck.   Nothing would surprise me. She probably has photos spanking Donald in a diaper.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on March 17, 2018, 12:10:58 pm
I saw a fascinating, well-researched post on Reddit the other day, and I am going to repost it here in its entirety because it is too good not to share. Hopefully this doesn't earn me a ban-hammer for cross-posting... I think all of this is worthy of discussion.  The opinion of a random guy on a message board is something you can take or leave, but something this well-researched and well-sourced deserves some discussion. All credit to "PoppinKREAM", whoever he or she might be:

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/84ofao/mueller_subpoenas_trump_organization_demanding/dvr510x/

President Trump said the red line would be drawn at Special Counsel Mueller looking into the Trump Empire's finances. Why you may ask? The entire family is involved in laundering money. Christopher Steele has stated that Trump's hotel and land deals with Russians need to be examined.[1] Steve Bannon's comments all but confirmed our suspicions that Trump is being investigated for laundering money.[2]

    [Bannon] “You realise where this is going,” he is quoted as saying. “This is all about money laundering. Mueller chose [senior prosecutor Andrew] Weissmann first and he is a money-laundering guy.

We recently found out that Trump's first international venture in Panama City is a hub for laundering money.[3] He handed the business dealings over to Ivanka Trump and although many properties were bought the entire area is almost a ghost town.[4] The tower stands dark as very few people live in the properties. Turns out the owners hail from colourful backgrounds including Russian gangsters, drug cartels, and people smugglers.[5]

Rachel Maddow did a piece about a Trump Tower project in Azerbaijan.[6]

In it Ivanka Trump takes a video promoting her family's building, but it turns out she wasn't filming at the Trump property as it was built in a rundown location.

The Trump organization has been laundering money for a long time. Here are a few examples The New Yorker touches upon including his Taj Mahal Casino, projects in India, Uruguay, Georgia, Indonesia, the Philipines, and China.[7] Listen to this short NPR podcast interview where Adam Davidson explains what he uncovered while investigating Baku.[8]

Today we found out that the President of the United States did business with a sanctioned Russian bank during the 2016 campaign.[9]

In 2017 President Trump tweeted that "I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA - NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!"[10]

He lied. Read what Felix Sater, a Russian bussiness associate of the President, offered President Trump's personal lawyer Michael Cohen in 2015. Felix Sater wanted to work with the Russians to help get Trump elected by showcasing Trump's negotiation skills. To do this he wanted to build a Trump Tower in Moscow. The New York Times[11] story is corroborated by the Washington Post.[12] President Trump signed a letter of intent to build the Moscow Trump Tower during the campaign.[13]

    The associate, Felix Sater, wrote a series of emails to Mr. Trump’s lawyer, Michael Cohen, in which he boasted about his ties to Mr. Putin. He predicted that building a Trump Tower in Moscow would highlight Mr. Trump’s savvy negotiating skills and be a political boon to his candidacy.

    “Our boy can become president of the USA and we can engineer it,” Mr. Sater wrote in an email. “I will get all of Putins team to buy in on this, I will manage this process.”

    “I will get Putin on this program and we will get Donald elected,” Mr. Sater wrote.

New information on the relationship between Felix Sater and Trump has come to light recently, including much more money laundering. Rachel Maddow explains how billionaires from Kazakhstan, who are embroiled in court cases involving money laundering, had their money laundered through Trump properties via Felix Sater.[14] There is video/photographic evidence of President Trump promoting a new project in Georgia to build a Trump Tower, but they never did end up building the Trump tower. The project was used to launder money. Felix Sater attended Trump's invite-only victory party to celebrate his presidential victory.[15] In July of 2016 we know he attended a secret meeting at Trump Tower.[16]

Months ago it was reported that Felix Sater was ready and willing to cooperate with Special Counsel Mueller.[17] Paul Wood, World Affairs correspondent for the BBC, wrote the original article for The Spectator.[18] Back in the 90's Felix Sater was caught up in a massive stock scam and flipped on mob families in New York. Guess who flipped him? He's on Special Counsel Mueller's team - Andrew Weissmann.[19]

1) Business Insider - 'Dossier' author Christopher Steele: Trump's hotel and land deals with Russians need to be examined
http://www.businessinsider.com/christopher-steele-trump-hotel-land-deals-russia-dossier-2017-11

2) The Guardian - Trump Tower meeting with Russians 'treasonous', Bannon says in explosive book
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/03/donald-trump-russia-steve-bannon-michael-wolff

3) NBC - A Panama tower carries Trump’s name and ties to organized crime
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/panama-tower-carries-trump-s-name-ties-organized-crime-n821706

4) Global Witness - Narco-A-Lago: Money Laundering At The Trump Ocean Club Panama
https://www.globalwitness.org/en-gb/campaigns/corruption-and-money-laundering/narco-a-lago-panama/#chapter-0/section-0

5) The Guardian - Trump's Panama tower used for money laundering by condo owners, reports say
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/17/trump-ocean-club-panama-money-laundering-reports

6) Sketchy Donald Trump Deal Eyed For Ties To Iran | Rachel Maddow | MSNBC
Code: [Select]
https://youtu.be/dy9Qtf3P6Nw
7) The New Yorker - Donald Trump’s Worst Deal: The President helped build a hotel in Azerbaijan that appears to be a corrupt operation engineered by oligarchs tied to Iran’s Revolutionary Guard
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/13/donald-trumps-worst-deal

8) NPR - 'The New Yorker' Uncovers Trump Hotel's Ties To Corrupt Oligarch Family
https://www.npr.org/2017/03/07/519063946/the-new-yorker-uncovers-trump-hotels-ties-to-corrupt-oligarch-family

9) The Guardian - Trump Organization 'negotiated with sanctioned Russian bank in 2016'
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/15/trump-organization-negotiated-with-sanctioned-russian-bank-in-2016

10) Trump January 2017 Tweet
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/819159806489591809?lang=en

11) New York Times - Trump Associate Boasted That Moscow Business Deal ‘Will Get Donald Elected’
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/28/us/politics/trump-tower-putin-felix-sater.html?_r=0

12) The Washington Post - Trump’s company had more contact with Russia during campaign, according to documents turned over to investigators
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-company-had-more-contact-with-russia-during-campaign-according-to-documents-turned-over-to-investigators/2017/10/02/2091fe5e-a6c0-11e7-850e-2bdd1236be5d_story.html?utm_term=.f61662df4652

13) ABC News - Trump signed letter of intent for Russian tower during campaign, lawyer says
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-knew-moscow-tower-proposal-campaign-lawyer/story?id=49472342

14) MSNBC Rachel Maddow - Sketchy money finds its way into Trump deals
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/sketchy-kazakh-money-finds-its-way-into-trump-dealings-1137745475847?playlist=associated

15) GQ - Inside Donald Trump's Election Night War Room
https://www.gq.com/story/inside-donald-trumps-election-night-war-room

16) Politico - Trump’s mob-linked ex-associate gives $5,400 to campaign
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/donald-trump-russia-felix-sater-227434

17) Raw Story - Longtime Trump business partner ‘told family he knows he and POTUS are going to prison’: report
https://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/longtime-trump-business-partner-told-family-he-knows-he-and-potus-are-going-to-prison-report/

18) The Spectator - Forget Charlottesville - Russia Is Still The True Trump's True Scandal
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/08/forget-charlottesville-russia-is-still-the-true-trump-scandal/

19) Slate - An Intriguing Link Between the Mueller Investigation, Trump, and Alleged Money Laundering
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/06/21/felix_sater_donald_trump_robert_mueller_and_andrew_weissmann.html


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on March 17, 2018, 12:23:54 pm
And Andrew McCabe has been fired. This is clearly another attempt to halt the Mueller probe.

Trump wanted them to make sure McCabe didn't get to keep his pension either. McCabe was fired 26 hours before his retirement.  Remember when Trump had Comey fired, he wanted Comey to have to buy his own plane ticket home. He called up McCabe and demanded to know why the government was flying Comey home.  McCabe said it wasn't his decision, but if it had been his decision, he'd have done the same. Trump said "ask your wife how it feels to be a loser!" and hung up the phone. The guy is just a lowlife.  A playground bully who just never grew up.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on March 17, 2018, 12:29:30 pm
I saw a fascinating, well-researched post on Reddit the other day, and I am going to repost it here in its entirety because it is too good not to share.

Is that all you have? Nothing Burger.

my tweets on how you are such a loser will be posted tomorrow morning at 5:30am.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on March 17, 2018, 12:38:22 pm
Why does the fact he fired this guy less than two days before gets his pension **** me off more than anything else he's done?

He'll probably get his pension anyway, right?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 17, 2018, 12:56:42 pm
Why does the fact he fired this guy less than two days before gets his pension **** me off more than anything else he's done?

He'll probably get his pension anyway, right?

Ah nope, but he wont starve I can assure you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 17, 2018, 01:25:36 pm
Why does the fact he fired this guy less than two days before gets his pension **** me off more than anything else he's done?

He'll probably get his pension anyway, right?

My guess is he will sue and get it because the timing of the fireing was to ensure he wouldn’t.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on March 17, 2018, 01:44:36 pm
My guess is he will sue and get it because the timing of the fireing was to ensure he wouldn’t.

I'm thinking book deal!

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 17, 2018, 02:13:35 pm
Why does the fact he fired this guy less than two days before gets his pension **** me off more than anything else he's done?

He'll probably get his pension anyway, right?

Because it's so profoundly unfair and mean spirited? Because it strikes a chord in all of us who have ever worked in a company or organization that has a pension plan? Because the thought that a rich boy, a born rich boy, gleefully trumpets that he had a guy fired to deny him the pension that working people everywhere work so hard to obtain - the economic security fat assed scumbags like Trump take for granted, makes everyone want to punch him in his fat **** face?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 17, 2018, 02:24:14 pm
I'm thinking book deal!

 -k

Probably

Does the US have an official secrets act. There must be some things retired intelligence people aren't allowed to disclose.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on March 17, 2018, 02:34:04 pm
Because it's so profoundly unfair and mean spirited? Because it strikes a chord in all of us who have ever worked in a company or organization that has a pension plan? Because the thought that a rich boy, a born rich boy, gleefully trumpets that he had a guy fired to deny him the pension that working people everywhere work so hard to obtain - the economic security fat assed scumbags like Trump take for granted, makes everyone want to punch him in his fat **** face?

Yeah, that might be it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 19, 2018, 01:52:02 pm
So just listening to Trump babble and he has made it official that he wants to expand the death penalty to include druggies. So I wonder if he will eventually hope to be able to brag about being a murderer like his buddy Duterte seems to enjoy doing?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on March 20, 2018, 08:08:14 pm
I have to admit to being against the death penalty as an option for society, because we keep executing innocent people, or at least, finding them guilty when they are not.

That said, if we are going to kill people, I'm more than happy if they are drug dealers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 20, 2018, 08:27:31 pm
I have to admit to being against the death penalty as an option for society, because we keep executing innocent people, or at least, finding them guilty when they are not.

That said, if we are going to kill people, I'm more than happy if they are drug dealers.

Well on the one hand, then on the other. What gibberish. Are you against the death penalty or not?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on March 20, 2018, 08:28:40 pm
Well on the one hand, then on the other. What gibberish. Are you against the death penalty or not?

Maybe, wait, no!  Yes!!

Read it again, ffs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 20, 2018, 08:41:00 pm
Maybe, wait, no!  Yes!!

Read it again, ffs.

So we'll mark you down as "can't decide" about the death penalty.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on March 20, 2018, 08:42:07 pm
So we'll mark you down as "can't decide" about the death penalty.

How about that kid that the security guard shot in the school today?  Okay with that?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 20, 2018, 08:50:34 pm
How about that kid that the security guard shot in the school today?  Okay with that?

You don't see the difference between someone who walks into a school and shoots students and gets himself shot in the process and a jury deciding in a courtroom to take someones life, even if they are a criminal?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on March 20, 2018, 08:54:25 pm
You don't see the difference between someone who walks into a school and shoots students and gets himself shot in the process and a jury deciding in a courtroom to take someones life, even if they are a criminal?

Sure I do, but at least we agree it's okay to kill bad people.

My view on the death penalty is based on the idea that it's better for a bad person to live than it is for a good person to die.  I'm paraphrasing someone there, I know.

That said though, if you absolutely have to kill someone, I'm okay with it being a drug dealer.  I mean, why not, right?

That's always assuming they are guilty of course.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 20, 2018, 09:00:37 pm
 ;D
You don't see the difference between someone who walks into a school and shoots students and gets himself shot in the process and a jury deciding in a courtroom to take someones life, even if they are a criminal?

I'm not a proponent of the death penalty but considering the lethality of fentanyl and some of its derivatives the distinction between dealing and attempted murder is getting a lot more hazy. People who deal in this **** know there is a good chance they are going to kill someone and they just don't care.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 20, 2018, 09:02:29 pm
Sure I do, but at least we agree it's okay to kill bad people.

My view on the death penalty is based on the idea that it's better for a bad person to live than it is for a good person to die.  I'm paraphrasing someone there, I know.

That said though, if you absolutely have to kill someone, I'm okay with it being a drug dealer.  I mean, why not, right?

That's always assuming they are guilty of course.

Ah, no we don't agree. As I pointed out, if your life is threatened you have every right to protect yourself. Sending a drug dealer to the gallows is a whole different idea. I'm surprised you can't understand that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 20, 2018, 09:04:47 pm
Ah, no we don't agree. As I pointed out, if your life is threatened you have every right to protect yourself. Sending a drug dealer to the gallows is a whole different idea. I'm surprised you can't understand that.

Are addicts not entitled to the same protections from people who are trying to kill them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 20, 2018, 09:05:48 pm
;D
I'm not a proponent of the death penalty but considering the lethality of fentanyl and some of its derivatives the distinction between dealing and attempted murder is getting a lot more hazy. People who deal in this **** know there is a good chance they are going to kill someone and they just don't care.

And all I am saying is I'm also not a proponent of the death penalty. (Ineffective,extremely costly, and in my opinion immoral) I am not therefore saying I  support drug dealers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 20, 2018, 09:11:45 pm
And all I am saying is I'm also not a proponent of the death penalty. (Ineffective,extremely costly, and in my opinion immoral) I am not therefore saying I  support drug dealers.

Do we agree that our penalties for people who sell this stuff aren't nearly severe enough, or do we just keep letting our first responders take the psychological hit for dealing with their victims shift after shift?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on March 20, 2018, 09:19:28 pm
Ah, no we don't agree. As I pointed out, if your life is threatened you have every right to protect yourself. Sending a drug dealer to the gallows is a whole different idea. I'm surprised you can't understand that.

I understand.  Like I said, I'm okay with it if they are guilty.  I'm sure it will save someone's life.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 20, 2018, 09:22:22 pm
Do we agree that our penalties for people who sell this stuff aren't nearly severe enough, or do we just keep letting our first responders take the psychological hit for dealing with their victims shift after shift?

I'm quite happy with throwing drug dealers in jail to get them off the street. We just don't need to start killing them. Better off to put the money/effort into rehab programs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 20, 2018, 09:27:00 pm
I understand.  Like I said, I'm okay with it if they are guilty.  I'm sure it will save someone's life.

We gave up the death penalty in this country a long time ago, and it isn't likely to be re instituted any time soon, especially for drug dealers. Sorry l'il buddy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on March 20, 2018, 09:28:25 pm
We gave up the death penalty in this country a long time ago, and it isn't likely to be re instituted any time soon, especially for drug dealers. Sorry l'il buddy.

Why sorry?  That's what I would have as a policy.  You really have trouble reading, don't you?  Glasses maybe?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 20, 2018, 09:31:47 pm
I'm quite happy with throwing drug dealers in jail to get them off the street. We just don't need to start killing them. Better off to put the money/effort into rehab programs.

I agree. That said, I don't put more value on a dealer's life than I do on an addict's. Right now, our legal system does.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 20, 2018, 09:32:53 pm
Why sorry?  That's what I would have as a policy.  You really have trouble reading, don't you?  Glasses maybe?

You don't like the death penalty but you're happy to kill drug dealers. I don't need glasses to see the contradiction in your posts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on March 20, 2018, 09:35:02 pm
You don't like the death penalty but you're happy to kill drug dealers. I don't need glasses to see the contradiction in your posts.

I'd be happy to kill more than just drug dealers.   

Like I said, I think it's simply a reading thing.  Here:

Quote
I have to admit to being against the death penalty as an option for society, because we keep executing innocent people, or at least, finding them guilty when they are not.

It's not really that difficult.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 20, 2018, 09:37:18 pm
I agree. That said, I don't put more value on a dealer's life than I do on an addict's. Right now, our legal system does.

I wouldn't say not putting a dealer to death is valuing their life more than the addicts. Did the dealer force the addict to become one? as I say, my priorities would be jail the dealer, offer rehad to the addict.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 20, 2018, 09:40:49 pm
I'd be happy to kill more than just drug dealers.   

Like I said, I think it's simply a reading thing.  Here:

It's not really that difficult.

You keep contradicting yourself. so carry on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on March 20, 2018, 09:43:33 pm
You keep contradicting yourself. so carry on.

Glasses...  Or is it a logic thing?

Here, how about this:

I have no moral objection to killing people who deserve to die.  I'm against the death penalty because we would quite often be killing those who don't.

I'm talking about the government here, of course.  Not me.  Unless they ask.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 20, 2018, 09:49:57 pm
Glasses...  Or is it a logic thing?

Here, how about this:

I have no moral objection to killing people who deserve to die.  I'm against the death penalty because we would quite often be killing those who don't.

I'm talking about the government here, of course.  Not me.  Unless they ask.

And who was it that gave you the right to decide who should die?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on March 20, 2018, 09:52:47 pm
And who was it that gave you the right to decide who should die?

Denis Compton.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 20, 2018, 09:54:46 pm
Denis Compton.

So just more crickets.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on March 20, 2018, 09:57:10 pm
So just more crickets.

Cricketers.  It was glasses after all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 20, 2018, 09:59:16 pm
Cricketers.  It was glasses after all.

I was referring to your posts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on March 20, 2018, 10:00:03 pm
I was referring to your posts.

I know.  I gave you a like.  It was quick.  Credit where it's due.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 20, 2018, 10:07:06 pm
As if Trump wasn't showing his stupidity enough already, he calls Putin to congratulate him on his electoral success, meanwhile there are videos of people jamming ballot boxes in Russia and Sarah "stupid ****" Sanders trying to gloss over the whole deal by saying the US system works pretty good. An "OMG" moment for sure.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on March 20, 2018, 10:08:16 pm
I don't know, is Trump calling Putin any worse than Putin calling Trump to congratulate him on November 9, 2016?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 20, 2018, 10:11:42 pm
I don't know, is Trump calling Putin any worse than Putin calling Trump to congratulate him on November 9, 2016?

I suspect the groundwork had already been laid. Trump owes too much money to Putin to dare **** him off.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on March 21, 2018, 09:30:14 am
Why sorry?  That's what I would have as a policy.  You really have trouble reading, don't you?  Glasses maybe?

Some of the biggest pushers are drug companies and docs.  Do you think the pharma companies don't know their drugs are deadly when they mislead doca about its uses, or reward them for prescribing the drugs with good and gifts?  Do you think docs never have a suspicion about a patient's abuse!

I don't know what criteria one would use to decide to kill any individual drug dealer, especially given that it is possible that a drug delaer has never sold drugs that killed anyone.   

If it can be proven that drugs someone died on came from X, then maybe X can be charged with some kind of murder.  But what if X does happen to be a doc, who ought tp have known the dead guy was abusing their prescription?

Sorry, death to drug dealers is another simplistic solution to a complex problem.  Killing people off because they are "bad" is a pretty vague definition which can too easily be expanded to a lot of people
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 21, 2018, 10:30:24 am
I don't know, is Trump calling Putin any worse than Putin calling Trump to congratulate him on November 9, 2016?

Considering what the POTUS is supposed to stand for, absolutely.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 21, 2018, 10:32:51 am
I wouldn't say not putting a dealer to death is valuing their life more than the addicts. Did the dealer force the addict to become one? as I say, my priorities would be jail the dealer, offer rehad to the addict.

Death penalty aside, the penalties no longer fit the crime.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on March 21, 2018, 10:44:38 am
If it can be proven that drugs someone died on came from X, then maybe X can be charged with some kind of murder.  But what if X does happen to be a doc, who ought to have known the dead guy was abusing their prescription?
The law can't make others responsible for the choices of addicts. Addicts obfuscate, lie and cheat in order to access their drug of choice. That said, Doctors should be alert for the signs of addiction but there is only so much they can do other than recommend treatment. If the person also has a condition that is improved by medication can they really deny that medication because of concerns that it might be abused? I have heard numerous horror stories of non-addicts denied access to meds needed to manage pain because of the fear of opioid addiction. Any regime that places too much of a onus on doctors to stop addicts would only increase the number of those stories as doctors act to protect themselves.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 21, 2018, 12:07:22 pm
You keep contradicting yourself. so carry on.

He's not contradicting himself.
He wouldn't mind killing lots of people who deserved it, like drug dealers and murderers, but our system is too mistaken-riddled for him to want it to make that decision. I agree.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 21, 2018, 03:23:59 pm
Don't forget to tune into 60 Minutes this Sunday and hear what Stormy Daniels has to say about her Trump affair. She will be the first of three who will now be able to speak publicly after a judge rules in their favor. 'No one is above the law" was apparently one of the judges comments.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/donald-trump-sexual-assault-summer-zervos-sue-apprentice-judge-ruling-a8266376.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on March 21, 2018, 04:30:58 pm
Some of the biggest pushers are drug companies and docs.  Do you think the pharma companies don't know their drugs are deadly when they mislead doca about its uses, or reward them for prescribing the drugs with good and gifts?  Do you think docs never have a suspicion about a patient's abuse!

I don't know what criteria one would use to decide to kill any individual drug dealer, especially given that it is possible that a drug delaer has never sold drugs that killed anyone.   

If it can be proven that drugs someone died on came from X, then maybe X can be charged with some kind of murder.  But what if X does happen to be a doc, who ought tp have known the dead guy was abusing their prescription?

Sorry, death to drug dealers is another simplistic solution to a complex problem.  Killing people off because they are "bad" is a pretty vague definition which can too easily be expanded to a lot of people

I'm not talking about solutions to problems.  The only way to solve that problem is to allow people to put whatever the hell they want into their bodies.

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: westcoastrunner on March 21, 2018, 06:27:36 pm
The law can't make others responsible for the choices of addicts. Addicts obfuscate, lie and cheat in order to access their drug of choice. That said, Doctors should be alert for the signs of addiction but there is only so much they can do other than recommend treatment. If the person also has a condition that is improved by medication can they really deny that medication because of concerns that it might be abused? I have heard numerous horror stories of non-addicts denied access to meds needed to manage pain because of the fear of opioid addiction. Any regime that places too much of a onus on doctors to stop addicts would only increase the number of those stories as doctors act to protect themselves.

Doctors are supposed to check a patient's medical records for prescriptions prescribed.  Here in BC, they rarely do and they need to expedite their patients as quickly as possible.  Here in BC, patients are capped at 50 (for 100% billing), after that it goes down to 50%.  After 65 patients they get no billing.  When a clinic is busy with hours long waits, they rush through their patients as fast as they can.  No time for compassionate care, especially for addicts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: westcoastrunner on March 21, 2018, 06:46:49 pm
What's up with Alan Dershowitz?  Is he a Trump supporter?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on March 21, 2018, 06:52:38 pm
Doctors are supposed to check a patient's medical records for prescriptions prescribed.
AFIK Pharmacare does this quite well now. Potential drug abusers are flagged by the system when they fill their prescriptions which should reduce the burden on doctors. I also see this issue as a trade off with no perfect solution. I think people who have a legitimate medical need for opioid drugs should be able to access them even if this means the system can't stop all drug abusers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 21, 2018, 07:12:07 pm
Doctors are supposed to check a patient's medical records for prescriptions prescribed.  Here in BC, they rarely do and they need to expedite their patients as quickly as possible.  Here in BC, patients are capped at 50 (for 100% billing), after that it goes down to 50%.  After 65 patients they get no billing.  When a clinic is busy with hours long waits, they rush through their patients as fast as they can.  No time for compassionate care, especially for addicts.

My doc is pretty picky about what he prescribes and likes to try alternate therapies before he resorts to drugs. Every time I see him he has something new and interesting to try. He says his object is to get all his patients to 90 without meds but he is realistic about it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 21, 2018, 07:14:27 pm
What's up with Alan Dershowitz?  Is he a Trump supporter?

Is the pope catholic? He's one of FOXs go-to legal talking heads whenever they want someone to explain to the public how horrible, evil, corrupt, satanic and clearly criminal Hillary Clinton is and how pure, saintly, and free of all traces of guilt Donald Trump is.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on March 21, 2018, 08:54:36 pm
My doc is pretty picky about what he prescribes and likes to try alternate therapies before he resorts to drugs. Every time I see him he has something new and interesting to try. He says his object is to get all his patients to 90 without meds but he is realistic about it.

I had a doc like that for 15 years.  Then he gave up his practice and now I wander in the wilderness, from walk-in clinic to walk-in clinic and chasing elusive rumours of GPs in family practice taking new patients.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 21, 2018, 09:07:27 pm
I had a doc like that for 15 years.  Then he gave up his practice and now I wander in the wilderness, from walk-in clinic to walk-in clinic and chasing elusive rumours of GPs in family practice taking new patients.

We have been lucky, the practice has changed hands twice but we went with it. Hopefully the latest guy is young enough and hangs around long enough to outlast us.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on March 21, 2018, 09:14:11 pm
Is the pope catholic? He's one of FOXs go-to legal talking heads whenever they want someone to explain to the public how horrible, evil, corrupt, satanic and clearly criminal Hillary Clinton is and how pure, saintly, and free of all traces of guilt Donald Trump is.
Huh? He is someone with a long history of defending people who are unpopular. Just because someone points out that some of the Democratic talking points are on weak legal grounds does not make him a Trump supporter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Dershowitz
Quote
Dershowitz is an avowed supporter of the Democratic Party. In 2016, he stated that he would cancel his party membership if Keith Ellison was appointed party chair;[32] Tom Perez was appointed instead. Dershowitz endorsed Hillary Clinton in the 2008 presidential election, and later endorsed the party nominee, Barack Obama.[33]

Despite his admitted liberal tendencies, Dershowitz has been a defender for President Trump in some cases. In January 2018 he said that Democrats attacking the president's 'mental fitness' was a "very dangerous" line of attack.[34] He has also been adamant that there is "no case" for obstruction of justice against President Trump regarding the firing of former FBI Director James Comey.[35] Dershowitz also has said that "collusion" as it is defined by Democrats and the media in reference to Russian meddling in the 2016 election is not a crime.[36]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 21, 2018, 09:37:54 pm
Huh? He is someone with a long history of defending people who are unpopular. Just because someone points out that some of the Democratic talking points are on weak legal grounds does not make him a Trump supporter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Dershowitz

He does a pretty good job of destroying his credibility with his support of Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 22, 2018, 06:14:58 am
The White House makes workers sign an unenforceable NDA:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/21/us/politics/trump-nondisclosure-agreement.html

Quote
White House counsel, drew up a broad document barring White House officials from publicly disclosing what they heard and saw at work. But he privately told senior aides that it was mainly meant to placate an agitated president, who was convinced that the people around him had to be pressured into keeping his secrets. Mr. McGahn made it clear the agreement could not ultimately be enforced, according to several people who signed.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 22, 2018, 08:29:21 am
NDA’s are really working well for him so far.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 22, 2018, 10:51:58 am
NDA’s are really working well for him so far.

*SNORT*
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on March 22, 2018, 11:10:39 am
Huh? He is someone with a long history of defending people who are unpopular. Just because someone points out that some of the Democratic talking points are on weak legal grounds does not make him a Trump supporter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Dershowitz

He's about as much a democrat as a certain bankruptcy lawyer on this forum:  only in the figment of his own imagination.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on March 22, 2018, 11:32:23 am
He's about as much a democrat as a certain bankruptcy lawyer on this forum:  only in the figment of his own imagination.
Of course. I forgot that modern left does not tolerate any dissent from the party line and anyone who expresses any disagreement with the "approved line" is exiled.  This kind of crap is why authoritarians on the left are such a huge threat to our freedoms.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on March 22, 2018, 11:33:05 am
I imagine for many people admitting that they agree with Republicans is a bit like admitting they like Justin Bieber's music.

They scoff at the idea even if their toes start to tap when his music comes on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 22, 2018, 11:48:15 am
Huh? He is someone with a long history of defending people who are unpopular. Just because someone points out that some of the Democratic talking points are on weak legal grounds does not make him a Trump supporter.

His points that I've seen are silly and based on his nearly complete lack of knowledge about the ongoing investigations. He makes presumptions about what information Mueller does and does not have, and what provoked the FBI's initial investigations, and then gives legal opinions based on his presumptions without actually pointing out his own lack of knowledge. He's a hack desperate to get on TV.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on March 22, 2018, 11:56:41 am
His points that I've seen are silly and based on his nearly complete lack of knowledge about the ongoing investigations. He makes presumptions about what information Mueller does and does not have, and what provoked the FBI's initial investigations, and then gives legal opinions based on his presumptions without actually pointing out his own lack of knowledge. He's a hack desperate to get on TV.
Don't watch TV so I have never see him there. I remember him from the 80s as the lawyer who would defend the unpopular out of principle.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 22, 2018, 12:10:24 pm
Don't watch TV so I have never see him there. I remember him from the 80s as the lawyer who would defend the unpopular out of principle.

If had have watched TV yesterday you'd have seen him get his head handed to him by Jeffrey Toobin, a former student who is now a legal anallist for CNN. He got a little miffed at Dersowitz  comment that Mueller was put in place simply to "find" illegalities rather than to do a proper investigation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 22, 2018, 12:37:58 pm
Well another "productive" day for Trump: he has pissed off John Dowd, his lead council on the Russia investigation, to the point were he walked off the job and then he announced a round of tariffs against China and the Dow takes another nose dive. Dare we wonder what's next?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on March 22, 2018, 01:54:33 pm
The House just passed the largest spending package ever ($1.3 trillion), and it is on to the Senate. Over half of that spending was in the department of war alone (what they call defense). Great going Mr. President. You cut taxes, and increase spending, so much for fiscal conservatism.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 22, 2018, 01:55:04 pm
How many people are protecting us from the abyss now ?

John Kelly ?  Anyone else ?

Normal people are unlikely to jump in to right this sinking ship, which means that there will be fewer people to tell baby Donny to stop mashing buttons.

If he kills the economy with a trade war, he will be a lame duck by the fall. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 22, 2018, 02:05:51 pm
Trump's head lawyer responsible for his Mueller defence just resigned today. Timing is interesting, considering they just received the question from Mueller a few days ago.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 22, 2018, 02:13:29 pm
The House just passed the largest spending package ever ($1.3 trillion), and it is on to the Senate. Over half of that spending was in the department of war alone (what they call defense). Great going Mr. President. You cut taxes, and increase spending, so much for fiscal conservatism.

So much for the GOP's fiscal conservatism.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 22, 2018, 02:23:00 pm
Apparently Dowd wasn't happy with the addition of DiGenova to sit as his co-council. And also it is said that Dowd and Mueller were communicating, so I wonder where this leaves the investigation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on March 22, 2018, 03:28:15 pm
Trump's head lawyer responsible for his Mueller defence just resigned today. Timing is interesting, considering they just received the question from Mueller a few days ago.

I read that according to ‘sources’ Trump wasn’t listening to his lawyers that’s why Dowd resigned. The new lawyer is taking an aggressive approach that the investigation is all a setup to frame Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on March 22, 2018, 05:54:11 pm
Another one bites the dust

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 22, 2018, 06:02:03 pm
Bolton in. Start digging your shelter.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 22, 2018, 07:40:02 pm
Bolton in. Start digging your shelter.

Bolton never met a war he didn't like - so long as he didn't have to be in it. Like Trump he did his best to avoid serving in Vietnam.
He certainly won't be doing anything to reign Trump in. On the other hand, Like Pompeo, he's never been fond of Russia.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 22, 2018, 11:44:40 pm
Just watching the interview with Karen Macdougal. What a sleezebag she has demonstrated herself and what a scum sucking **** Trump shows up to be, yet again. This is the POTUS we are talking about. Malania must be beside herself with rage. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 23, 2018, 06:19:56 am
Just watching the interview with Karen Macdougal. What a sleezebag she has demonstrated herself and what a scum sucking **** Trump shows up to be, yet again. This is the POTUS we are talking about. Malania must be beside herself with rage.

Just wondering about the odds of divorce...

http://nationalpost.com/news/donald-trumps-marriage-to-melania-ends-before-his-presidency-odds-are-51-in-europes-top-10-bets

Quote
Donald Trump’s marriage ends before his administration.
Odds: 5/1 (Win $60 on a $10 bet)
Unfortunately for newspaper sales, the betting markets are clearly favouring an outcome in which Melania remains First Lady until her husband is no longer Commander-in-Chief. The odds on the marriage remaining intact until a successor is inaugurated is 1/10. However, the bet is based on whether the couple finalizes divorce proceedings, which means estrangement is still in the cards.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on March 23, 2018, 09:29:30 am
Stormy Daniels' lawyer tweeted a picture of a CD, with the caption "If a picture is worth a thousand words, how many words is this worth?????"

WHAT'S ON THE DISC???

Find out on the season finale of... THE APPRENTICE!

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 23, 2018, 10:14:35 am
A disc in a vault..... LOL.

Clearly this info campaign is aimed at people too old to have heard of the Cloud...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 23, 2018, 10:21:18 am
On the other hand, a disc in a vault can't be hacked.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 23, 2018, 12:29:27 pm
So Bolton has apparently been giving speeches demanding the US not only tear up the nuke deal with Iran, but invade Iran to change the regime to one friendly to America. He's also been a strong advocate of bombing North Korea and changing the regime there.

Note, Bolton avoided service in the Vietnam war by joining the National Guard, which didn't serve overseas.

Taken in tandem with Trump's new Secretary of State it seems clear to me that Trump is looking for voices which will support his desire to attack... someone, ANYONE.

I already owned some defense industry stocks but I doubled my holdings this morning. I wasn't the only one, either. Raytheon, General Dynamics, Harris, and Northrup Grumman all up heavily on a down day.

I bought gold too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on March 23, 2018, 12:38:10 pm
Just wondering about the odds of divorce...

http://nationalpost.com/news/donald-trumps-marriage-to-melania-ends-before-his-presidency-odds-are-51-in-europes-top-10-bets

I'm sure they had an 'understanding' and she wasn't really that stupid to think he's faithful, but to have it aired that he was sleeping around with multiple women without using protection would be pretty gross. 

I would still be surprised though if they broke up.  She's barely been seen with him but she's sticking to her part of it.  Reminds me a bit of Hillary Clinton's idea of marriage.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on March 23, 2018, 12:40:28 pm
Quote
I already owned some defense industry stocks but I doubled my holdings this morning. I wasn't the only one, either. Raytheon, General Dynamics, Harris, and Northrup Grumman all up heavily on a down day.

It makes me so sad that people are so pleased to make money out of the misery and death of others. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 23, 2018, 12:42:25 pm
It makes me so sad that people are so pleased to make money out of the misery and death of others.

I'm not pleased. I'm taking out insurance to help insulate my portfolio from the inevitable market upheaval when these idiots attack someone.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on March 23, 2018, 12:45:30 pm
It makes me so sad that people are so pleased to make money out of the misery and death of others.

Yeah but look at the source.  Sad?  Shocking?  Not really.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on March 23, 2018, 12:49:54 pm
I'm not pleased. I'm taking out insurance to help insulate my portfolio from the inevitable market upheaval when these idiots attack someone.

I am honestly interested in how this would "insulate" your portfolio.  Are there any other options that wouldn't so directly support the military?  I am really interested, not critical. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 23, 2018, 12:56:27 pm
I am honestly interested in how this would "insulate" your portfolio.  Are there any other options that wouldn't so directly support the military?  I am really interested, not critical.

There are complicated market instruments you can use, but that's kind of beyond my interest. You can also get out of the market but then you risk losing out on market rises. So what you do if you fear an event, like war, is to buy stocks which will rise if that happens. This helps to offset the rest of your stocks which will fall. It's much like fear of interest rate rises. That harms the market, but certain types of companies, like banks and insurance companies, do better as rates rise. So if you fear interest rate rises you buy those to offset those who will go down.

It's a fairly common tactic. I track a couple of hundred ETFs, and the four on top today, by a wide margin, are Gold, and three aerospace and defense ETFs.

The day of the US election I was not sanguine that Trump would lose, so just in case he won, I bought a lot of gold and us defense stocks. When he won the market tanked. But gold and defense stocks soared. So I didn't really lose much (on paper) and then when the market started to recover I sold the gold and some of the defense stocks and wound up ahead.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 23, 2018, 12:57:20 pm
Yeah but look at the source.  Sad?  Shocking?  Not really.

It's sad that I would take steps to insulate my portfolio - which will be my pension - from market upheaval?

Let me guess. All your money comes from a government cheque, and always has.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 23, 2018, 01:07:46 pm
So Trump signs a 1.3 trillion dollar bill which he admits to knowing little about, and he has kicked corporate tax back 14%. I wonder if the Chinese will pick up any more of what will likely be a further spiraling debt, especially after he has just slapped tariffs on imports from China.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on March 23, 2018, 01:12:39 pm
So Bolton has apparently been giving speeches demanding the US not only tear up the nuke deal with Iran, but invade Iran to change the regime to one friendly to America. He's also been a strong advocate of bombing North Korea and changing the regime there.

Note, Bolton avoided service in the Vietnam war by joining the National Guard, which didn't serve overseas.

Taken in tandem with Trump's new Secretary of State it seems clear to me that Trump is looking for voices which will support his desire to attack... someone, ANYONE.

I already owned some defense industry stocks but I doubled my holdings this morning. I wasn't the only one, either. Raytheon, General Dynamics, Harris, and Northrup Grumman all up heavily on a down day.

I bought gold too.

Hang on. Its true he has fired people en masse. This is the symptom of a narcissist who feels weak. The firing gives him the illusion he is in control in a world where he is not.


Y'all ask me he is loud but his latest snit of the day  with China is prior to the North Korea summit. Its muscle flexing telling China to not try defend North Korea too strongly.

China, Russia and the US all have huge egos- leaders with the same insecurities.  We have a three way poker match of bluff and posture.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on March 23, 2018, 01:17:05 pm
It's sad that I would take steps to insulate my portfolio - which will be my pension - from market upheaval?

Insulate your portfolio?  LOL
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 23, 2018, 01:29:26 pm
I am honestly interested in how this would "insulate" your portfolio.  Are there any other options that wouldn't so directly support the military?  I am really interested, not critical.

You can only do so much. I have been reducing my market exposure as I age. It's too bad fixed income investments pay so little and good corporate bonds are commanding a premium but there are times when you have to make preservation of capital a priority. Between Trump's escalating turmoil and Congress ditching most of Dodd Frank, I think it is inevitable that we will see another 2008 or worse and am wondering if I should be in the market at all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on March 23, 2018, 01:34:48 pm
I already owned some defense industry stocks but I doubled my holdings this morning. I wasn't the only one, either. Raytheon, General Dynamics, Harris, and Northrup Grumman all up heavily on a down day.

I think the $700 billion (over have of the $1.3 trillion total) spending plan on the department of war that the House passed earlier this week and is sitting in the Senate has something to do with it as well.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 23, 2018, 03:54:36 pm
I think the $700 billion (over have of the $1.3 trillion total) spending plan on the department of war that the House passed earlier this week and is sitting in the Senate has something to do with it as well.

Bolton has said before he'd like to obliterate NK, so maybe an extra few hundred billion in the war machine will cover that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 23, 2018, 05:30:29 pm
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/03/23/john-yoo-at-last-trump-finally-assembles-top-legal-team-to-deal-with-mueller-probe.html

FOX seems to be making lemonade out of the lemons that were Trump's lawyer resigning. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on March 23, 2018, 05:58:15 pm
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/03/23/john-yoo-at-last-trump-finally-assembles-top-legal-team-to-deal-with-mueller-probe.html

FOX seems to be making lemonade out of the lemons that were Trump's lawyer resigning.

I don't watch Fox but I keep wondering how they're spinning Bolton as NSA given that Trump kept saying Iraq was one of the nation's biggest blunders and Bolton was one of the main architects of that war. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 23, 2018, 06:00:53 pm
They smoke their own weed over there.  Trump hires their idiot commenters because they're so fickin' smart and so it validates them.

Up next...

How FOX will show the economic meltdown from the trade war, the actual war with Iran and the constitutional crisis as signs of Trump's greatness
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 27, 2018, 01:17:58 pm
So now Trump it seems is being held back from uttering a word/tweet about the "Stormy" deal, he now is pursuing another of his frustrations, the fact that congress didn't give him the dough for his stupid border wall. So now he wants the Pentagon to pay for it. Maybe he had a hidden agenda in signing that $1.3 trillion spending bill after all.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/trump-wants-military-pay-us-mexico-border-wall-2018-3

"Congress didn't give Trump the money he wants for his border wall, so now he reportedly wants the military to build it"

Trump — upset about potential disappointment among his supporters and invoking "national security" — is now reportedly eyeing the $700 billion allotted for the Pentagon, a sum he touted as "historic," to provide funding for the wall.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 27, 2018, 03:44:49 pm
I don't watch Fox but I keep wondering how they're spinning Bolton as NSA given that Trump kept saying Iraq was one of the nation's biggest blunders and Bolton was one of the main architects of that war.

They simply don't mention it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 29, 2018, 10:43:02 pm
So today Trump tells blatant lies about the progress of his wall and also provides phony photos to boot. I reckon his coal belt supporters will buy the latest round of BS like they have the previous ones.

 https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a19630341/trump-border-wall-tweet/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on March 30, 2018, 12:17:51 pm
Wow, that's incredibly laughable.  That Fox And Friends immediately jump on the case to boost his big lie is appalling... but not surprising.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on March 30, 2018, 02:53:36 pm
Wow, that's incredibly laughable.  That Fox And Friends immediately jump on the case to boost his big lie is appalling... but not surprising.

 -k

He also complained the CEO of TransCanada Pipelines never called to thank him when he okayed Keystone. And said he'd remember that next time.

The CEO of TransCanada Pipelines was in his office standing next to him when he signed the thing, and thanked him twice, on TV.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on March 30, 2018, 03:11:58 pm
The CEO of TransCanada Pipelines was in his office standing next to him when he signed the thing, and thanked him twice, on TV.

Too funny, I hadn't heard that one before but I can't say I am surprised.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on March 30, 2018, 06:01:09 pm
Hope Hicks is truly special, she got a handshake and a kiss on the cheek during her departure from the White House. Most just get a tweet.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on April 01, 2018, 12:16:54 pm
@realDonaldJTrump - “Twitter was fun once – BIG fun. But I’m getting tired of the TROLLS (many of whom are ****). Got a big job to do putting America first. God bless Twitter & the almighty USA. Peace OUT!

For more on this, see the article in the Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-deletes-twitter-tweeting-white-house-social-media-a8282956.html).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on April 01, 2018, 12:37:01 pm
@realDonaldJTrump - “Twitter was fun once – BIG fun. But I’m getting tired of the TROLLS (many of whom are ****). Got a big job to do putting America first. God bless Twitter & the almighty USA. Peace OUT!

For more on this, see the article in the Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-deletes-twitter-tweeting-white-house-social-media-a8282956.html).
NOT TODAY, MY FRIEND
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 03, 2018, 12:58:10 am
So Trump spends his Easter long weekend at Mara Lago with the likes of Anne Coulter and Sean Hannity as his honored guests, so I guess we can expect some really bat **** crazy right wing nonsense to come out of his twitter feed coming up. I get a "kick" out of him jawing on that he's pulling out of Syria "very soon" while the military higher ups (you know, people that actually know where Syria is on a map) have been hinting at adding troops to Syria. And of course now there is this script that some well over a hundred news channels are being forced to read and endorse slamming anything that basically doesn't agree with the type of crap Fox news puts out as being "fake news". Call it whatever syndrome you want, the comparisons between the Nazi realm and the Trump administration are getting more ominous as we go forward. Happy Easter.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 06, 2018, 02:29:30 pm
Trump threatens China with another 100 billion more tariffs and the dow drops another ~700 points. I wonder if the soybean and pork farmers (who voted him in in the first place) will show up at the polls in November to try to correct that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 09, 2018, 03:34:38 pm
In the wake of the current chemical attack al **** has unleashed on innocent men women and children, Trump yet again contradicts himself trying to blame it on Obama's lack of intervention on Syria with regard to his so called "red line" while Trump at the time was criticizing Obama saying it was not the business of Obama and the US should leave well enough alone. Who the hell voted this dickhead in anyway?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on April 09, 2018, 03:38:22 pm
Feds just raided Michael Cohen’s office.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 09, 2018, 03:45:25 pm
Yep, that's going to be interesting. Will this nudge Trump any closer to trying to fire Mueller I wonder?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on April 09, 2018, 04:28:03 pm
Yep, that's going to be interesting. Will this nudge Trump any closer to trying to fire Mueller I wonder?

Wasn't Mueller that did it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 09, 2018, 04:31:23 pm
Wasn't Mueller that did it.

It was the FBI that did it. Are you not aware of the connection?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on April 09, 2018, 05:38:49 pm
It was the FBI that did it. Are you not aware of the connection?

It was Trump that did it, are you not aware of the connection?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 09, 2018, 07:36:42 pm
Trump is pretty angry about this one.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 09, 2018, 10:35:54 pm
Wasn't Mueller that did it.

It actually was Mueller that did it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 10, 2018, 12:29:20 am
And it's significant that the FBI got permission to bust through Cohen's door which in effect usurps the attorney client privilege so they (Mueller etal) must have some serious evidence of crimes committed by Cohen.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on April 10, 2018, 10:55:38 am
It actually was Mueller that did it.

Mueller simply discovered the information and referred it back to the FBI. The deputy director said it had nothing to do with Mueller's investigation so passed it on to the FBI office in New York for investigation. They were the ones who decided to raid the office.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on April 10, 2018, 12:49:32 pm
You can sort of see an avenue where Trump tries to go full tinpot dictator.

Fire Mueller, Sessions and Rosenstein and appoint someone from Fox News that will immediately end the Russia Investigation. Also pardon Manafort, Gates and Flynn.

He seems so unhinged that, it's not impossible that it'll happen. Fox News is portraying this issue as the FBI being the corrupt influence on the US and they're the "actual" enemy even though everyone involved were appointed by Republics and/or are Republicans.

Only a spineless Republican congress stands in the way of that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 10, 2018, 12:56:49 pm
You can sort of see an avenue where Trump tries to go full tinpot dictator.

Fire Mueller, Sessions and Rosenstein and appoint someone from Fox News that will immediately end the Russia Investigation. Also pardon Manafort, Gates and Flynn.

He seems so unhinged that, it's not impossible that it'll happen. Fox News is portraying this issue as the FBI being the corrupt influence on the US and they're the "actual" enemy even though everyone involved were appointed by Republics and/or are Republicans.

Only a spineless Republican congress stands in the way of that.

One problem he has is he czn't fire Mueller. Rosenstein can but he has no reason to and has said so. So Trump would have to figure out a reason to fire Rosenstein and replace him with someone who he could convince to fire Mueller. Plus it seems the opinions of those who are supposedly "in the know" suggest that even if Trump gets rid of Mueller that won't stop the investigation. Now can you please pass the popcorn.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 10, 2018, 01:01:37 pm
Mueller simply discovered the information and referred it back to the FBI. The deputy director said it had nothing to do with Mueller's investigation so passed it on to the FBI office in New York for investigation. They were the ones who decided to raid the office.

Mueller didn't physically raid the office, but he uncovered the info that led to it, so in essence he did it. It appears not to have been related to the Russia investigation but must have been some juicy stuff relative to campaign financing and pretty girls. And that's quite an issue when the FBI is allowed to raid the personal lawyer of the POTUS. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 10, 2018, 01:05:21 pm
And of course Trump refers to the FBI search of Cohen's files as a "break in". Is he hoping his not too bright base will buy that horseshit or does he simply not understand what a search warrant is issued for?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on April 10, 2018, 01:05:49 pm
Wonder if Mueller found the Golden Shower videos.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on April 10, 2018, 01:07:06 pm
And of course Trump refers to the FBI search of Cohen's files as a "break in". Is he hoping his not too bright base will buy that horseshit or does he simply not understand what a search warrant is issued for?

But then the Judge that signed the warrant is part of the Fake News conspiracy. The built in excuses have already been created.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 10, 2018, 01:20:15 pm
But then the Judge that signed the warrant is part of the Fake News conspiracy. The built in excuses have already been created.

I bet she's damn noisy around the west wing today. Apparently Trump is "seathing with anger".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on April 10, 2018, 01:21:59 pm
Wonder if Mueller found the Golden Shower videos.

Mueller is pursuing the law, I don't think such videos would have any bearing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 10, 2018, 01:26:16 pm
Mueller is pursuing the law, I don't think such videos would have any bearing.

They would have a bearing on me to the point I would pull the plug on the TV if they announced they were about to show excerpts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on April 10, 2018, 03:34:05 pm
You can sort of see an avenue where Trump tries to go full tinpot dictator.

Fire Mueller, Sessions and Rosenstein and appoint someone from Fox News that will immediately end the Russia Investigation. Also pardon Manafort, Gates and Flynn.

He seems so unhinged that, it's not impossible that it'll happen. Fox News is portraying this issue as the FBI being the corrupt influence on the US and they're the "actual" enemy even though everyone involved were appointed by Republics and/or are Republicans.

Only a spineless Republican congress stands in the way of that.

Not quite. Many of the charges are duplicated in New York statutes, particularly money laundering. If Trump pardoned everyone the state of New York - run by Democrats, would quickly press charges at the state level. And Trump has no ability to pardon state charges. Only the (Democratic) governor could do that. Not to mention such a move would almost certainly lead to a Democratic congress in the fall, which would re-launch the Russia collusion investigation, starting with all the information Mueller has already gathered, and then start subpoenaing members of the Trump administration.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 10, 2018, 03:46:21 pm
Not quite. Many of the charges are duplicated in New York statutes, particularly money laundering. If Trump pardoned everyone the state of New York - run by Democrats, would quickly press charges at the state level. And Trump has no ability to pardon state charges. Only the (Democratic) governor could do that. Not to mention such a move would almost certainly lead to a Democratic congress in the fall, which would re-launch the Russia collusion investigation, starting with all the information Mueller has already gathered, and then start subpoenaing members of the Trump administration.

Not quite that simple: if you are pardoned you are still compelled to testify it's just your testimony can't be used to convict you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on April 10, 2018, 04:05:11 pm
Not quite that simple: if you are pardoned you are still compelled to testify it's just your testimony can't be used to convict you.

You can't compell Paul Manafort to testify unless you give him immunity. And there's no reason for the others like Gates and Flynn not to simply refuse to testify, or to lie in their testimony if Trump will just pardon them for it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 10, 2018, 04:13:20 pm
And of course Trump refers to the FBI search of Cohen's files as a "break in". Is he hoping his not too bright base will buy that horseshit or does he simply not understand what a search warrant is issued for?

Of course they didn't, anything they took without a warrant wouldn't be admissible in court.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 10, 2018, 04:29:42 pm
You can't compell Paul Manafort to testify unless you give him immunity. And there's no reason for the others like Gates and Flynn not to simply refuse to testify, or to lie in their testimony if Trump will just pardon them for it.

If you receive a pardon you must testify. If you fail to do so, or lie, you can still be held in contempt. However your honest testimony cannot be held against you even if it implicates you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 11, 2018, 06:58:02 am
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/11/politics/trump-missiles-tweet/index.html

President tweets "Get Ready Russia"

His base got used to saying Russia wasn't a threat, got used to saying the Dems were warmongers, got used to saying that the US shouldn't communicate their plans as happened in Iraq with ISIS.

Now, this.

This impulsive person should lose supporters from this but will it happen ?  Will he trigger a greater conflict now ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 11, 2018, 12:46:50 pm
Yes here goes Trump contradicting himself yet again. After criticizing the Dems and Hillary during his campaign with regard to the telegraphing of planned military activity, he tweets about sending "nice, and new and smart missiles" into Syria after the alleged chemical attack by Assad. Perhaps after he mouthed off on his twitter account as he always seems to do, he found out he doesn't have the authority to launch those missiles so now he has to sit on his hands and look like a dufus yet again. Maybe somebody should fire a missile into the WH.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on April 11, 2018, 12:47:34 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/11/politics/trump-missiles-tweet/index.html

President tweets "Get Ready Russia"

His base got used to saying Russia wasn't a threat, got used to saying the Dems were warmongers, got used to saying that the US shouldn't communicate their plans as happened in Iraq with ISIS.

Now, this.

This impulsive person should lose supporters from this but will it happen ?  Will he trigger a greater conflict now ?

Just when you think he can't sound any more ridiculous or unstable this latest childish comment. If it wasn't so rank stupid you would think its a deliberate coded message with something underneath the stupid immature wording. However the scary thing is, it appears just pure stupid. Any way you slice it for him to have written what he did is insane, literally. Why would you telecast such a move  unless its a smokescreen? Is it deliberate disinformation? Who the phack knows but it reads like some child with a serious **** size issue.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on April 11, 2018, 12:49:59 pm
Yes here goes Trump contradicting himself yet again. After criticizing the Dems and Hillary during his campaign with regard to the telegraphing of planned military activity, he tweets about sending "nice, and new and smart missiles" into Syria after the alleged chemical attack by Assad. Perhaps after he mouthed off on his twitter account as he always seems to do, he found out he doesn't have the authority to launch those missiles so now he has to sit on his hands and look like a dufus yet again. Maybe somebody should fire a missile into the WH.

Is he that stupid and out of control or is he being used as a smokescreen...a classic disinformation tool to keep us away from the actual crap going down? Maybe its my refusing
to believe anyone can be as stupid as he sounds. Maybe he is that stupid and out of control.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 11, 2018, 01:07:59 pm
Is he that stupid and out of control or is he being used as a smokescreen...a classic disinformation tool to keep us away from the actual crap going down? Maybe its my refusing
to believe anyone can be as stupid as he sounds. Maybe he is that stupid and out of control.

I suppose it depends on your definition of stupid. I tend to think in Trump's case he probably has the mental capability to not come off sounding so stupid if he would simply seek advice from people around him who have more experience with regard to the issues the job he now finds himself in. But it seems his personality won't allow him to do so. I guess an abundance of ego can cause stupidity.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on April 11, 2018, 05:13:17 pm
I just turned on CNN and as I tuned in I heard "the president then declared war on Syria via twitter".

This is really becoming the new normal?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on April 11, 2018, 05:23:31 pm
This impulsive person should lose supporters from this but will it happen ? 

I follow him on twitter and I can say emphatically: no.  They were spinning Paul Ryan's resignation, the once golden boy of the republican party, as draining the swamp. 

They have given up any glimmer of sanity and turned their back on anyone within the party that doesn't kowtow to Trump.

They are like demented cult members of the Church of Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 11, 2018, 07:47:42 pm
I suppose it depends on your definition of stupid. I tend to think in Trump's case he probably has the mental capability to not come off sounding so stupid if he would simply seek advice from people around him who have more experience with regard to the issues the job he now finds himself in. But it seems his personality won't allow him to do so. I guess an abundance of ego can cause stupidity.


Teddy Rosevelt said walk softly and carry a big stick. Trump carries a big mouth an leaves other people to deal with it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 11, 2018, 09:16:32 pm

Teddy Rosevelt said walk softly and carry a big stick. Trump carries a big mouth an leaves other people to deal with it.

Which must be dang difficult if you are one of those "other people" who have to deal with serious stuff like military strategies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 11, 2018, 09:45:59 pm
Which must be dang difficult if you are one of those "other people" who have to deal with serious stuff like military strategies.

Probably has something to do with the record turnover in staff.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 11, 2018, 09:58:37 pm
Probably has something to do with the record turnover in staff.

How's BC doing over on the other forum I wonder. I can imagine him stepping up to protect Trump in his mindless USA, USA, USA, fashion no matter how stupid Trump continues with his comments/tweets.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on April 11, 2018, 10:49:53 pm
I just turned on CNN and as I tuned in I heard "the president then declared war on Syria via twitter".

This is really becoming the new normal?

Trump, on Twitter: "Get ready, Russia!!!"

Russia:  "STFU. smh."

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on April 11, 2018, 11:02:03 pm
Trump, on Twitter: "Get ready, Russia!!!"

Russia:  "STFU. smh."

 -k

Hey look, we totally hate each other.  See, no collusion at all.  Can we fire Mueller now?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on April 12, 2018, 12:05:39 am
"I am totally tough on Russia! See? NO COLLUSION!!!"



 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on April 12, 2018, 07:43:18 am
The last threat was North Korea and nothing happened except a few days later the Fat Boy was suddenly making overtures to South Korea, suddenly there's a joint Korean team at the Olympics and a summit was being arranged between the fat boy and the fat man. How soon people forgot that. Now we have the same sort of gas emissions coming from Trump's mouth/twitter yet again. Clearly someone cleans up every time he farts and then quits. I mean just when it appears there is no one else to quit, someone resigns. Now its Ryan in a long list of people distancing from him and his Secretary of Defense the day after he sends his latest methane twitter emission tells the press and congress no set plan is in place while not just Trump but Prime Minister May makes some loud noises.

Posturing. He postures. Most politicians do in light of such things. The problem is when Trump does it, he does it in such a rank amateur way people at this point have stopped looking at his twitters as anything but a sign of his mental illness. Its like Trudeau. Trudeau's Mr. Dress Up and Dance routine has destroyed his credibility as he now runs to Peru to avoid his own gas problems.

Once a politician loses their credibility anything they say  now takes on an added dimension of stupidity which with Donald is just a constant by the hour thing.

The fact he is now telecasting his moves and drawing lines in the sand and macho posturing  is misleading. Usually something that daft, that blatant, that clumsy is disinformation. In this case it may be. It may be something else going on and this is all just disinformation. Who would know?

If a missile strike comes, why warn your enemy? Why give them time to hide all their chemicals, unless of course its just that, a pathetic cover game-pathetic meaningless posturing followed by perhaps some loud banging noises that blow up nothing but sand followed by fake cover stories?

I mean has anyone given any thought to why Syria is even occupied by Russia? On paper it has little oil and no natural resources. So why put your naval base there? Russia feels the need for a naval base in Syria and made it clear it will not leave. So just what strategically does Russia need in Syria? Some say its proximity to  this very large oil deposit found half-way between Israel and Cyprus that Israel, Greece and Cyprus have started to arrange to extract. It seems Turkey and Russia both feel left out of that equation. Is that the reason? There's also another huge deposit off the coast of Gaza City that British Petroleum tried to develop and Hamas will not allow. Is that Iran trying to preserve its own oil prices? Is it Russia concerned about the impact of oil prices if the oil find off Cyprus and Israel is extracted?

That is one theory. The other is Syria is a gateway to export heroin and hashhish to Europe and the Russian mob needs that  guaranteed. Who knows but at this point the  shrill posturing of Trump and Putin are remarkably the same. Two ego driven men with clear insecurities about their manhood. They both need to visit Justin and get lessons on getting dealing with their savage tendencies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 12, 2018, 01:21:37 pm
And now... the dunderhead is reversing himself on TPP... for... some.... reason.... ???

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/international-business/us-business/article-trump-orders-advisers-to-study-re-entering-tpp/

Quote
UPDATED APRIL 12, 2018
President Donald Trump has deputized two top economic advisers to explore re-entering the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade accord he withdrew from after taking office, Senator Ben Sasse told reporters.

“He multiple times reaffirmed the point that TPP might be easier to join now,” Sasse said Thursday.

Two White House officials who spoke on condition of anonymity confirmed that the president directed economic adviser Larry Kudlow and U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer to explore the feasibility of re-entering the TPP. White House spokesmen didn’t immediately respond to requests for comment.

“That’s really good news for America and frankly it’s really good news for the rule of law and economic security in the Pacific,” said Sasse, a Nebraska Republican.

Maybe they built an institution so powerful, so impervious to attack and so high up the food chain that he actually doesn't need to do anything.  Like cranking the wheel on the Titanic, it takes a long time for it to turn.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 12, 2018, 02:14:41 pm
And now... the dunderhead is reversing himself on TPP... for... some.... reason.... ???

some 20 or so provisions the U.S. pushed for in the original TPP (that many of the other signatory countries had concerns over) were suspended in the revamped CPTPP... the presumption being the U.S. would regain its senses when Trump was punted and negotiations might renew on those (now) suspended provisions should the U.S. want back in - otherwise CPTPP is effectively the same treaty as the original TPP
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 12, 2018, 02:19:57 pm
I guess if I were doing a treaty I would have done that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 12, 2018, 03:08:37 pm
Trump is certainly the master of "whiplash" I will give him that. Currently of course it's "I'm going to attack Syria soon, or well maybe not so soon, then again maybe I'm not going attack at all". Meanwhile I'm sure the Russians and Assad have moved all their hardware out of the way in case Humpty Dumpty does actually make a decision.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on April 12, 2018, 05:37:47 pm
More Are Getting Arrested

#MAGA
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 12, 2018, 11:18:50 pm
I bet a lot of us are enjoying quotes from Comey's book a lot more than Trump is!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 13, 2018, 03:52:26 pm
Yet another interesting day in Trump land: his lawyer Cohen is under criminal investigation, the gloves are off between Comey and Trump over excerpts from Comey's book which offer some harch comments about Trump, and Trump blew up his attorney/client privilege by saying he knew nothing about the 130k payment to Stormy. More whiplash! 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on April 14, 2018, 12:16:45 am
I will not discuss Syria tonight because it's nothing but a distraction from Comey's book so mum about that.  Maybe tomorrow. 

For now... I've heard people say Comey's book was 'salacious' and petty but I think it was brilliantly calculated.  In his dealing with Trump it was obvious this pee-dossier was a huge deal for Trump.  Comey could've said many things about Trump but he hit him where it hurt most. 

It was petty, without a doubt, but it was a bulls-eye.

Like many others I wasn't sure what to make of the pee-gate dossier but now without a doubt I think it happened.  I think it's brilliant that Comey chose to completely humiliate Trump instead of just arguing his own reasoning for why he was fired.

I don't particularly like Comey because I think he's shoe scum for publicizing the Clinton investigation while he was investigating Trump at the same time but for bringing pee-gate to the forefront and giving it complete credibility, I give him a high five. 

I’m a Peeliever and You Should Be, Too
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/04/im-a-peeliever-and-you-should-be-too.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 14, 2018, 06:42:10 am
I don't buy that Trump "did this" to distract.  England and France are behind it also, and the US did this in the past as well.

3 airstrikes, though, strikes me (  ;) ) as symbolic, as a way to say "we are still here if you do things we don't like".  In the end, without NATO or whatever is left of it, you wouldn't have a core of somewhat-moralistic-world-policing. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on April 14, 2018, 09:42:37 am
I don't buy that Trump "did this" to distract.  England and France are behind it also, and the US did this in the past as well.

3 airstrikes, though, strikes me (  ;) ) as symbolic, as a way to say "we are still here if you do things we don't like".  In the end, without NATO or whatever is left of it, you wouldn't have a core of somewhat-moralistic-world-policing.

The only problem is the Russians government, which is only slightly more stable than Trump's and led by another insecure, narcissistic sociopath - without the brake of opposing leaders, a free press or democracy to hold him back.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 14, 2018, 11:48:40 am
Wouldn't be surprised of the French and Brits pushed him into it. How would Mr. "Look how tough I am on the Russians" look if the other two went in alone.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on April 14, 2018, 12:42:35 pm
I will not discuss Syria tonight because it's nothing but a distraction from Comey's book so mum about that.  Maybe tomorrow. 

It's a sad comment on the present state of affairs that missile strikes are a distraction from the President's foibles.



The Comey book itself is just the latest distraction from the previous distractions. This week we're not talking about Stormy Daniels anymore. When Stormy Daniels had her week in the sun there was some other scandal that we forgot about.  It's all an ongoing circus of one scandal after another.  Maybe the theory is that if you keep everyone baffled with continual series of scandals, no one scandal will ever gain enough traction to bring down the President.   A new version of the "shock and awe" strategy, except that instead of shock and awe at American military power we are in shock and awe at the depths of corruption and depravity that this turd will sink to.

I suspect that probably everything in the Steele dossier happened.  No reason to doubt it. It's not like we're talking about a normal person where it's hard to imagine they'd be involved in something that gross. We're talking about a guy who no matter what you said happened, you could picture him being involved.  Russian hookers peeing on a bed? For Trump, that sounds almost tame at this point.



But does it matter?

At this point I can't see Trump getting brought down over moral or ethical causes.  His supporters have demonstrated that they will either refuse to believe anything happened, or find a way to rationalize it.  I am thinking the only thing that will sink Trump is proof of criminal activity.  Even then his true believers won't accept it, they'll believe he was framed by "Deep State".   But the **** Trumptard voter isn't enough to keep him in power. If he's proven to be involved in criminality-- I am personally thinking money laundering is the best bet here-- he'll be impeached.   Mueller, not prostitutes or ****-stars, is the way this clown ultimately gets removed from office.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 14, 2018, 01:54:06 pm
Trump tweets out "mission accomplished" this am after the missile attacks on Syria, but I imagine al Assad is laughing his ass off. The military pundits seem to agree that what they "accomplished" is a very minor setback to the production of chemical weapons and of course the vast majority of Syrians killed by Assad was done with conventional weapons. Putin will top Assad up with whatever he needs anyway. The Russians know they need to maintain their access to the Syrian port of Tartus on the Med.

But of course it gets Comey, Cohen, Stormy, Mueller, etc., etc., out of the headlines for a few days.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on April 15, 2018, 12:28:47 pm
Well, SOMEBODY cares about the Syria missile strikes.   The King of Conspiritards, Alex Jones, has declared Trump a fraud.

Jones was so upset over this supposed betrayal that he literally cried during his broadcast.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/04/infowars-alex-jones-cries-on-air-over-syria-strikes-trump-is-crapping-all-over-us.html

Jones and his delusional audience have been avid Trump supporters until now.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on April 16, 2018, 07:43:13 pm
Well this just keeps getting better. It turns out that Michael Cohen's unnamed third client is non other than Sean Hannity. Comey probably has an excellent case for a defamation suit, as Hannity never disclosed that fact before slandering him on Fox spews. Anyone Hannity defamed over Cohen also has a good case. He better get a better lawyer.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 16, 2018, 08:12:11 pm
Well this just keeps getting better. It turns out that Michael Cohen's unnamed third client is non other than Sean Hannity. Comey probably has an excellent case for a defamation suit, as Hannity never disclosed that fact before slandering him on Fox spews. Anyone Hannity defamed over Cohen also has a good case. He better get a better lawyer.

Hannity says he discussed things with Cohen but never engaged him as an attorney, which begs the question. If Cohen wasn't his attorney, can he claim attorney client privilege on anything they found that involved him and Cohen?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on April 17, 2018, 02:18:55 am
Hannity says he discussed things with Cohen but never engaged him as an attorney, which begs the question. If Cohen wasn't his attorney, can he claim attorney client privilege on anything they found that involved him and Cohen?

Now he says "hey, maybe I slipped him ten bucks to get attorney-client privilege"  (I don't think that actually works that way...) but also makes me very curious as to what conversations he had that needed privilege in the first place.

Well this just keeps getting better. It turns out that Michael Cohen's unnamed third client is non other than Sean Hannity. Comey probably has an excellent case for a defamation suit, as Hannity never disclosed that fact before slandering him on Fox spews. Anyone Hannity defamed over Cohen also has a good case. He better get a better lawyer.

I'm not getting the connection to Comey, but it seems like Stormy Daniels and her lawyer might have a bone to pick with Hannity.

And Hannity raging over the FBI raid on Cohen without mentioning his own connection to Cohen is obviously a breach of professional ethics, but since Hannity has no professional ethics (and since his real profession is actually propagandist or imbecile anyway) that doesn't matter much.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 17, 2018, 10:11:57 am
Now he says "hey, maybe I slipped him ten bucks to get attorney-client privilege"  (I don't think that actually works that way...) but also makes me very curious as to what conversations he had that needed privilege in the first place.



Wonder if he has a receipt to prove it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 17, 2018, 01:03:09 pm
Just watched Stormy on the View. It's impressive how articulate she is. If I didn't know anything about either of them and you asked me which one went to college, her or Trump, I wouldn't have answered Trump..
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on April 17, 2018, 07:58:30 pm
Just watched Stormy on the View. It's impressive how articulate she is. If I didn't know anything about either of them and you asked me which one went to college, her or Trump, I wouldn't have answered Trump..

She was dumb enough to shag him though...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 17, 2018, 08:58:07 pm
She was dumb enough to shag him though...

I think it will turn out the other way around.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on April 18, 2018, 10:09:55 am
We were watching the evening news a couple nights ago and there was quite a lot of Trump tweets and Trump nonsense being reported.  I said to the BF, "It's so surreal how these things are reported like it's normal".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 18, 2018, 01:46:57 pm
Trump's mad at the SC again. Deciding vote was cast by his nominee.  ;D

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/17/603160263/supreme-court-strikes-down-part-of-immigration-law
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 18, 2018, 02:28:19 pm
So I just heard Donald speaking about the chance of a meeting with "Fat Kim". He says "quite clearly", "we might have a very good meeting, or we may have a bad meeting, or we might have no meeting at all, we'll let you know soon". It's always good to have "decisiveness" from a POTUS! The mans an utter joke.

Hey how's BC04 doing supporting Trump over on that other thread?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on April 18, 2018, 02:39:41 pm
Quote
Hey how's BC04 doing supporting Trump over on that other thread?

who cares???

Go over there and find out....    ::)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 18, 2018, 02:45:14 pm
who cares???

Go over there and find out....    ::)

Come to think of it, who really cares. Quite predictable in any case. Nuf said.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on April 19, 2018, 04:41:21 pm
Michael Cohen drops his defamation suit against Buzzfeed & Fusion GPS, I guess the pee-pee tapes are real.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 19, 2018, 05:07:06 pm
I hear just now that Rudy Giulliani is now joining the Trump legal team. I thought he was supposed to be draining the swamp, not filling it up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on April 19, 2018, 08:41:48 pm
I feel like the **** stars are simply digging for more money....   Like they were when they were banging the rich old orangutan, when they were taking money to keep quiet and now that they are looking to make some more money by capitalizing on banging Trump.  They seem like **** to me....   

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on April 19, 2018, 09:53:54 pm
The Comey memos on his meetings with Trump have just been released, good bedtime reading. Not too heavily redacted, but apparently there are another 4 pages that are classified.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on April 19, 2018, 10:51:40 pm
One item in the Comey notes is that Trump wanted to jail reporters to find leaks in his own White House
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 19, 2018, 10:55:52 pm
The Cohen connection and what rolls out of the info the FBI acquired with their "no knock warrant" collection must be freaking him out as well.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 20, 2018, 08:06:12 pm
Trump continues to "fill the swamp" by bringing Giuliani on board who won't likely be able to get a security clearance due to an ongoing investigation, so he will only be able to walk around the West Wing with his thumb up his arse, while Trump plays golf yet again today and after all his ranting about Obama's golfing which falls far behind Trump's in regularity. I'd like to wrap a 9 iron around his **** neck so we didn't have to listen to his stupidity any more.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: fedup on April 21, 2018, 05:46:54 pm
Trump continues to "fill the swamp" by bringing Giuliani on board who won't likely be able to get a security clearance due to an ongoing investigation, so he will only be able to walk around the West Wing with his thumb up his arse, while Trump plays golf yet again today and after all his ranting about Obama's golfing which falls far behind Trump's in regularity. I'd like to wrap a 9 iron around his **** neck so we didn't have to listen to his stupidity any more.


Are you still ranting and raving on about Trump here also? Trump has been exonerated from the Russian collusion lie. Trump has not been impeached. Boy, you do enjoy banging your head against walls don't you? It has to be starting to hurt?  ;D

So, why knock Trump for all the golfing he does. Obamarama pretty much golfed as much if not more as Trump does. Hey, politics is not for real it's all just there for fun and games for those who get to join that club. Do you think that most politicians really care about you? Trump cannot drain the swamp anyway because nobody wants to help him to do it. So why bother let's just go play golf and let the country go to hell. At least that is what the liberal/democrats want to happen. Give it to them. They want swamps everywhere. At least Trump tried to make the effort to drain the swamp. Your ilk wants to keep the swamp filled up and overflowing. So, give Trump a break because your ilk that you support will always win in the end because nobody really cares that much anymore. It's just all about me-me-me and that is it. Patriotism and nationalism are just foreign words to all North Americans today.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 21, 2018, 06:00:22 pm

Are you still ranting and raving on about Trump here also? Trump has been exonerated from the Russian collusion lie. Trump has not been impeached. Boy, you do enjoy banging your head against walls don't you? It has to be starting to hurt?  ;D

So, why knock Trump for all the golfing he does. Obamarama pretty much golfed as much if not more as Trump does. Hey, politics is not for real it's all just there for fun and games for those who get to join that club. Do you think that most politicians really care about you? Trump cannot drain the swamp anyway because nobody wants to help him to do it. So why bother let's just go play golf and let the country go to hell. At least that is what the liberal/democrats want to happen. Give it to them. They want swamps everywhere. At least Trump tried to make the effort to drain the swamp. Your ilk wants to keep the swamp filled up and overflowing. So, give Trump a break because your ilk that you support will always win in the end because nobody really cares that much anymore. It's just all about me-me-me and that is it. Patriotism and nationalism are just foreign words to all North Americans today.

Hard to know where to start with your nonsense but I'll try. No Trump has not been exonerated. You'll find that out when Mueller files his final report. Trump may very well be impeached boy, when he loses the house in November. Trump so far has run away to Mara Laga to play gold at a rate 10 times higher than Obama. Look at all the people Trump has in his swamp who have been, or are about to be indicted or under investigation. Even his personal lawyer is crooked. I suspect you are of the ilk who get their news from Faux news or some other bullshit outfit like Breitbart. Your uninformed comments would suggest so.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on April 21, 2018, 07:48:10 pm
Hard to know where to start with your nonsense but I'll try.
You can start by not responding. Like it really needs to be pointed out that Trump hasn’t been exonerated. Low hanging fruit here.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 21, 2018, 07:51:29 pm
You can start by not responding. Like it really needs to be pointed out that Trump hasn’t been exonerated. Low hanging fruit here.

Just thought I'd try to chase you who back to you know where.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on April 21, 2018, 07:55:53 pm
Paying attention to it is counter-productive then
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 21, 2018, 08:04:54 pm
Paying attention to it is counter-productive then

True enough. I was feeling feisty I guess. Ignoring nonsense is the best approach of course.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 21, 2018, 10:14:40 pm
Kudos to Malania Trump for attending the funeral service for Barbara Bush today. It must have been a little difficult for her to hear all the accolades paid to Mrs. Bush and her long and loving relationship with her husband whilst the headlines are full of revelations currently of her husband having discussions with the likes of Vladimir Putin about how beautiful Russian hookers are. Sad.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on April 21, 2018, 11:01:41 pm
Kudos to Malania Trump for attending the funeral service for Barbara Bush today. It must have been a little difficult for her to hear all the accolades paid to Mrs. Bush and her long and loving relationship with her husband whilst the headlines are full of revelations currently of her husband having discussions with the likes of Vladimir Putin about how beautiful Russian hookers are. Sad.

You think Melania is with Trump for his winning personality and handsome features?   She’s no different than Stormy Daniels when it comes to her reasons for being with Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 21, 2018, 11:09:53 pm
You think Melania is with Trump for his winning personality and handsome features?   She’s no different than Stormy Daniels when it comes to her reasons for being with Trump.

I don't doubt that. The difference is Stormy is a **** star, a classification she readily accepts. Malania is the first lady. Bit of a difference supposedly.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 24, 2018, 02:07:49 pm
Trump contradicts himself yet another time. He's planning a very fancy state dinner for Macron tonight yet when he was campaigning he bitched about the waste of tax dollars on such dinners and remarked "we should be eating a hamburger in a boardroom" Macron is able to play Trump like a cheap guitar.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on April 25, 2018, 01:08:50 pm
A certain member is on a two week ban - final warning.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on April 25, 2018, 06:49:36 pm
A certain member is on a two week ban - final warning.

What did the certain member do, just as a lesson for the rest of us?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on April 25, 2018, 10:10:36 pm
By any chance did involve conspiracy theories involving a certain religious group that may or may not be known for wearing yarmulkes and avoiding shellfish?

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 25, 2018, 11:00:03 pm
I bet it was another noisy day in the west wing; Cohen takes the fifth and in all likelihood he will flip rather than serve a lengthy sentence. His 3rd attempt at a Muslim travel ban seems it might fail at the SC level, and then of course there are the current Comey interviews regarding his book.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 26, 2018, 05:47:03 am
By any chance did involve conspiracy theories involving a certain religious group that may or may not be known for wearing yarmulkes and avoiding shellfish?

 -k

Oh, for f*** sakes.  Conservatives, take care of your people...  :D

I promise to take care of all antifa people in my purview.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 26, 2018, 05:48:57 am
I bet it was another noisy day in the west wing; Cohen takes the fifth and in all likelihood he will flip rather than serve a lengthy sentence. His 3rd attempt at a Muslim travel ban seems it might fail at the SC level, and then of course there are the current Comey interviews regarding his book.

From U of Alabama law prof:

https://twitter.com/JoyceWhiteVance/status/989334435010105344

Quote
Cohen says he can’t answer any questions in the Stormy Daniels case without incriminating himself. That means any files regarding his clients in that matter, including Trump, are likely not protected by the attorney-client privilege because of the crime fraud exception.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on April 26, 2018, 06:56:05 am
From U of Alabama law prof:

https://twitter.com/JoyceWhiteVance/status/989334435010105344
Pleading the 5th doesn't mean you can't answer questions without incriminating yourself. It means you won't answer questions in case it may incriminate you. For a law professor to imply that someone pleading the 5th does so because they are guilty is pretty unethical. The rest of us can make assumptions; as a professional, she should not. Unless Cohen came right out and said "I won't answer questions because it will incriminate me," she's being extremely careless with her commentary.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 26, 2018, 09:52:47 am
Quote
"The mob takes the Fifth. If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?"

Donald Trump
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 26, 2018, 10:59:30 am
Pleading the 5th doesn't mean you can't answer questions without incriminating yourself. It means you won't answer questions in case it may incriminate you. For a law professor to imply that someone pleading the 5th does so because they are guilty is pretty unethical. The rest of us can make assumptions; as a professional, she should not. Unless Cohen came right out and said "I won't answer questions because it will incriminate me," she's being extremely careless with her commentary.

with a 25 year career as a U.S. federal prosecutor... see her regularly as an analyst/contributor to MSNBC programs. As I interpret: if evidence of crime/fraud can be shown separately, the 'crime fraud exception' removes the privilege between lawyer-client and, per the (now) professor, "any files regarding his {lawyer Cohen's} clients in that matter, including Trump, are likely not protected".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on April 26, 2018, 11:18:23 am
waldo, that literally has nothing to do with what I said. I'm talking about her stating that pleading the fifth indicates some sort of guilt. It does not. There is likely evidence of crimes in his files because otherwise the feds would not have been granted the raid on his office. Despite appearances, it's irresponsible for her, as a legal professional and only as a legal professional, to claim that he's pleading the fifth because he's guilty.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 26, 2018, 11:37:29 am
waldo, that literally has nothing to do with what I said. I'm talking about her stating that pleading the fifth indicates some sort of guilt. It does not. There is likely evidence of crimes in his files because otherwise the feds would not have been granted the raid on his office. Despite appearances, it's irresponsible for her, as a legal professional and only as a legal professional, to claim that he's pleading the fifth because he's guilty.

uhhh... where does she state that - I guess I missed it! Wait... I didn't miss anything - she doesn't speak to the lawyer Cohen's innocence or quilt.

what I stated (as I interpret): "if evidence of crime/fraud can be shown separately, the 'crime fraud exception' removes the privilege between lawyer-client and, per the (now) professor, "any files regarding his {lawyer Cohen's} clients in that matter, including Trump, are likely not protected"

... crime/fraud with respect to either client... or lawyer
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on April 26, 2018, 11:51:20 am
uhhh... where does she state that - I guess I missed it! Wait... I didn't miss anything - she doesn't speak to the lawyer Cohen's innocence or quilt.

what I stated (as I interpret): "if evidence of crime/fraud can be shown separately, the 'crime fraud exception' removes the privilege between lawyer-client and, per the (now) professor, "any files regarding his {lawyer Cohen's} clients in that matter, including Trump, are likely not protected"

... crime/fraud with respect to either client... or lawyer
She speaks to Cohen pleading the fifth when she says, "Cohen says he can't answer any questions without incriminating himself." Cohen said no such thing. She's referring to him taking the fifth. She's implying that taking the fifth amendment means he can't answer questions because he's guilty. As a lawyer, she's being incredibly irresponsible with her statement here. I'm not speaking to the legality of them seizing documents. I'm speaking to her professionalism in calling the fifth amendment a way to cover up criminality.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 26, 2018, 12:28:43 pm
She speaks to Cohen pleading the fifth when she says, "Cohen says he can't answer any questions without incriminating himself." Cohen said no such thing. She's referring to him taking the fifth. She's implying that taking the fifth amendment means he can't answer questions because he's guilty. As a lawyer, she's being incredibly irresponsible with her statement here. I'm not speaking to the legality of them seizing documents. I'm speaking to her professionalism in calling the fifth amendment a way to cover up criminality.

the U.S. 5th amendment is a right against self-incrimination... done on a question-by-question basis. Cohen made a blanket assertion, through signed affidavit filed in U.S. Federal court, to take the 5th amendment in the {effectively complete} case questioning. And, again, she makes no assertion in regards to the lawyers quilt. But again, because the lawyer has chosen to do so, there is an adjunct exception to the lawyer-client privilege... one I've already stated twice now in preceding posts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on April 26, 2018, 12:32:18 pm
waldo, don't be obtuse. She said he can't answer questions because he will incriminate himself.

That's an assertion, you knob.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 26, 2018, 01:13:36 pm
waldo, don't be obtuse. She said he can't answer questions because he will incriminate himself.

That's an assertion, you knob.

that's 'Mr. knob' to you, please! Can't play anymore right now... perhaps later tonight. In the meantime I'm truly impressed with your legal chops in interpreting U.S. amendment/privilege/law... and going up against a career U.S. federal prosecutor/now Law Professor.  :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on April 26, 2018, 02:01:22 pm
waldo, you're being intentionally dense. I'm not interpreting any law whatsoever. I'm criticizing her choice of words. I've made no claim whatsoever to the legality of seizing Cohen's documents or anything else before the court. I'm criticizing her characterization of the fifth amendment as an admission of guilt. I'm sure you understand that, but keep dancing around the point because you know that its a highly unethical thing for a lawyer to do. She should be criticized for it.

You and I and anyone else who is not publicly presenting themselves as a legal scholar can make claims to Cohen's guilt all we want with our arbitrary knowledge of the situation. When a lawyer does it, it's shameful.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 27, 2018, 05:41:00 am
  Unless Cohen came right out and said "I won't answer questions because it will incriminate me," she's being extremely careless with her commentary.

I get your point.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 27, 2018, 08:38:00 am
I get your point.

In the US, testifying before a Grand Jury is not an option nor do Miranda rights apply. The idea of he 5th is to prevent you from having to testify against yourself.

In normal court trials, as in Canada, defendants are not obliged to testify.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on April 27, 2018, 09:11:23 am
So I gather El Trumpo did a phone interview with Fox And Friends yesterday and was so unhinged that even the hosts were startled.

Quote
“I think he was awake and had a lot to say,” Steve Doocy said.

“He is a morning person,” Brian Kilmeade replied.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/04/trump-fox-and-friends/558992/

Interestingly, less than 2 hours afterward, some of Trump's remarks regarding his relationship with Michael Cohen ended up being cited in a court hearing.  Trump also acknowledged that Cohen represented him in the deal with Stormy Daniels, which contradicts his earlier claim that he was unaware of any deal with her.

He also hinted that he might get involved with the DoJ to make them stop investigating him.  And then the hosts cut him off, possibly to keep him from making any more problems for himself.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on April 27, 2018, 10:39:24 am
Natalia Veselnitskaya admits she worked closely with the Russian government, and Trump is triggered - tweeting the investigation MUST END NOW.

I wonder.....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 27, 2018, 11:47:04 am
And Manafort loses suit trying to rein in Mueller's investigation. When will the tumult ever end I wonder.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia/judge-skewers-manaforts-civil-case-challenging-muellers-powers-idUSKCN1HB0E7
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 27, 2018, 01:52:54 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/GfBGrdx.png)

waldo, you're being intentionally dense. I'm not interpreting any law whatsoever. I'm criticizing her choice of words. I've made no claim whatsoever to the legality of seizing Cohen's documents or anything else before the court. I'm criticizing her characterization of the fifth amendment as an admission of guilt. I'm sure you understand that, but keep dancing around the point because you know that its a highly unethical thing for a lawyer to do. She should be criticized for it.

You and I and anyone else who is not publicly presenting themselves as a legal scholar can make claims to Cohen's guilt all we want with our arbitrary knowledge of the situation. When a lawyer does it, it's shameful.

no - again, no matter your name calling me, "obtuse; dense; a knob", your premise is the career U.S. Federal prosecutor/ (now) law professor, doesn't know what incriminate/self-incrimination means/implies... that she doesn't know that it's not, as you say, "an admission of guilt"... that she doesn't know that invoking doesn't imply guilt.

coupled with your premise... I'll state your false premise... you also want to dickAround with the words can't versus won't. Notwithstanding, the very legal definition of self-incrimination doesn't even mean/imply attached guilt.

just to be absolutely clear on what Trump's personal lawyer Cohen did, it was in the Stormy civil case that Cohen asserted in relation to an ongoing criminal investigation (which, incidentally, is stated not to principally focus on the Stormy concern vis-a-vis suggestions toward a possible illegal/improper campaign associated payment as so-called 'hush-money' to Stormy. Perhaps you could offer your own postured legal expertise to state what Cohen is saying in clause 4 below; specifically, where he states, "he realized {in relation to the criminal investigation} his 5th amendment rights would be implicated in the civil Stormy case"

(https://i.imgur.com/ZlpfRsn.png)

my reference to your 'interpretation of law' was in regards the other part of her tweet that speaks to the adjunct, 'crime fraud exception', and the affect on, 'attorney-client privilege'. That exception attaches at the client level - to clients of lawyer Cohen. As I stated, "if evidence of crime/fraud can be shown separately, the 'crime fraud exception' removes the privilege between lawyer-client and, per the (now) professor, "any files regarding his {lawyer Cohen's} clients in that matter, including Trump, are likely not protected"."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on April 27, 2018, 04:47:40 pm
At this point I have to assume that you have literally no idea what I’m talking about and I really see no need to correct you because you are clearly unwilling to even try to understand.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on April 27, 2018, 07:17:23 pm
At this point I have to assume that you have literally no idea what I’m talking about

Since there was no reference, I assume the you is plural. Perhaps a conversation with a therapist would help you understand why you are not understood; then perhaps not.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 27, 2018, 07:20:11 pm
At this point I have to assume that you have literally no idea what I’m talking about and I really see no need to correct you because you are clearly unwilling to even try to understand.

what, no name calling this time? Nice bit of pomposity you're adding here as well!  ;D

again, self-incrimination doesn't mean/imply attached guilt... yet you keep nattering on about, "I'm criticizing her characterization of the fifth amendment as an admission of guilt." Notwithstanding the very amendment itself doesn't rise to the level of associated guilt; rather, as initially crafted with intent toward criminal case application, it simply states, "no person shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself"... more recent US Supreme Court decisions extended the amendment right to other types of judicial proceeding beyond just criminal..... as in this 'Stormy' civil case regard.

I kept wanting to give you the benefit of the doubt... to presume you were taking your inference concerning guilt from the latter part of her tweet. And in that vein, I'll take the liberty and repeat what I stated earlier; once again:
Quote
my reference to your 'interpretation of law' was in regards the other part of her tweet that speaks to the adjunct, 'crime fraud exception', and the affect on, 'attorney-client privilege'. That exception attaches at the client level - to clients of lawyer Cohen. As I stated, "if evidence of crime/fraud can be shown separately, the 'crime fraud exception' removes the privilege between lawyer-client and, per the (now) professor, "any files regarding his {lawyer Cohen's} clients in that matter, including Trump, are likely not protected"."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on April 28, 2018, 05:49:30 am
Just stop, Waldo. You’re embarrassing yourself.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 28, 2018, 08:25:02 am
Speaking of embarrassing oneself:

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-43933586

Kanye defends Trump in new song.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 28, 2018, 08:44:07 am
Just stop, Waldo. You’re embarrassing yourself.

says the guy, you, who literally attached guilt... specifically, an admission of guilt, to your interpretation of what you're declaring a 5th amendment privilege characterization; a privilege which holds no attachments of guilt. No where in the career federal prosecutor/U.S. Attorney/law professor's tweet, is there any such attachment of guilt made to the assertion of privilege. Talk about embarrassing yourself!
I'm criticizing her characterization of the fifth amendment as an admission of guilt.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 28, 2018, 08:48:17 am
Speaking of embarrassing oneself:

 ;D saw your initial write that didn't include the speaking reference... how embarrassing for you!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on April 28, 2018, 11:15:36 am
Speaking of embarrassing oneself:

I don't think either Kanye or Waldo are capable of feeling embarrassment.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on April 28, 2018, 11:28:06 am
Kanye is an attention ****. Chance the Rapper, religious zealot that he is, supported Kanye saying, “black people don’t have to be Democrats.” Twitter promptly set him straight when a NY writer responded to him saying:

No one is upset Kanye’s not a Democrat. They’re upset that he’s enabling and fanboying over a racist wannabe authoritarian who has made it his mission to separate families, discriminate against POC and LGBT people, and remove himself from criminal accountability.

Chance then apologized, saying his statement was made in the context of Democratic politicians not helping Chicago over the years despite paying lip-service to the problems. He never meant to support Trump.

The bigger problem here is that the US has a polarized political landscape where if you’re not Republican, you’re Democrat. The problem is that neither party will address the broader economic injustices that are the real problem in the US. They both reproduce a system of oppression that can find billions of dollars in a pinch to fund their murderous imperial ambitions, yet both parties have done sweet **** all for health care or education because they are not profitable. So people are pigeon-holed into a two-party system that gives the illusion of choice but is really choosing between the white wolves or grey wolves, neither of whom have the interests of the lambs in mind.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 28, 2018, 06:13:19 pm
Well we see Trump puts his (little) tail between his legs and runs away from the correspondents dinner for the second time.  guess his IQ level doesn't provide for any sort of sense of humor.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 29, 2018, 12:14:54 pm
I don't think either Kanye or Waldo are capable of feeling embarrassment.

 ;D please - I thought you were ignoring me! Speaking of being incapable of feeling embarrassment, see your very long list of transgressions.

I've certainly nothing to be embarrassed over concerning the recent cyber BS... where the guy claims applied guilt to something that has no guilt attachments.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on April 29, 2018, 06:00:54 pm
I'm fairly sure Trump's popularity is about to grow. This 'caravan' of south Americans wanting to cross the border is going to infuriate a lot of people, and not just the 'alt right'. And when they're all allowed in, as the idiotic border laws would require, and Trump rails against this, a lot more people are going to say "Maybe he's an **** but at least he's fighting for the security of our borders".

In fact, if someone wanted to solidify Trump's base in their determination for a wall they couldn't have found much better than this.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 29, 2018, 08:44:09 pm
I'm fairly sure Trump's popularity is about to grow. This 'caravan' of south Americans wanting to cross the border is going to infuriate a lot of people, and not just the 'alt right'. And when they're all allowed in, as the idiotic border laws would require, and Trump rails against this, a lot more people are going to say "Maybe he's an **** but at least he's fighting for the security of our borders".

In fact, if someone wanted to solidify Trump's base in their determination for a wall they couldn't have found much better than this.

The US constitution recognizes and  allows for asylum seekers, which is what these people seem to be. We know you don't like brown people but luckily the people who wrote that document weren't idiotic.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on April 30, 2018, 09:08:22 am
Well we see Trump puts his (little) tail between his legs and runs away from the correspondents dinner for the second time.  guess his IQ level doesn't provide for any sort of sense of humor.

Apparently a lot of feelings were hurt by Michelle Wolf's mean jokes.

Anna Navarro discusses:
Quote
Seems some ppl usually offended at lies & attacks on the media by Trump WH, today are offended a comedienne publicly calling out Trump WH on their lies & attacks on the media. But hey, fortunately in the Trump era, only politically-correct “snowflakes” should care about feelings.
(https://i.imgur.com/nFRv1Ok.jpg)

https://twitter.com/ananavarro/status/990574849692139520?s=19


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on April 30, 2018, 10:56:34 am
The US constitution recognizes and  allows for asylum seekers, which is what these people seem to be. We know you don't like brown people but luckily the people who wrote that document weren't idiotic.

These people are economic migrants. They've traveled through country after country, bypassing them, not trying to claim asylum, so they can get to the US, which is a rich country.

We've seen how this sort of thing resonates with anger among Americans, Europeans and Canadians (excluding far left morons like you).

Trump's popularity is going to increase.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 30, 2018, 02:30:20 pm
Yet another suit against Trump. Can't find a site yet but apparently Stormy is suing him this time for defamation after his tweet claimed that the threat she claimed happened to stop her from revealing the relationship she and Trump had was totally phony including the sketch that she has posted of the guy who supposedly made the threat. It's an uphill battle for this type of suit to go anywhere but it would be interesting if someone was apprehended on evidence of having made the threat and who matches the sketch.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 30, 2018, 03:54:35 pm
These people are economic migrants. They've traveled through country after country, bypassing them, not trying to claim asylum, so they can get to the US, which is a rich country.

We've seen how this sort of thing resonates with anger among Americans, Europeans and Canadians (excluding far left morons like you).

Trump's popularity is going to increase.



so I guess you figure if someone left El Salvador and crossed the border into Guatemala they would think, "Oh yeah, we've reached the promised land, let's stay here". Not likely, they'd keep going. Perhaps far right morons don't care/know about anything going on outside their own backyards.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on April 30, 2018, 04:37:29 pm
so I guess you figure if someone left El Salvador and crossed the border into Guatemala they would think, "Oh yeah, we've reached the promised land, let's stay here". Not likely, they'd keep going. Perhaps far right morons don't care/know about anything going on outside their own backyards.

The countries they come from are all democracies, including El Salvador. Is life cheery and wonderful there? No. Nor is it in most of the world. El Salvador has a 'freedom rating' of 70/100. That's higher than Mexico's 62. Just south of them is Panama, with an 83, and Costa Rica, with a 94. They're not fleeing persecution, but poverty.

Now I understand feeling sympathy for them. But let's be realistic. If we let them in, then thousands more will come, then tens of thousands, then hundreds of thousands. See Europe, for the example.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 30, 2018, 04:46:44 pm
These people are economic migrants. You can't blame people for wanting a better life but every country has the right to say who gets to enter.

I think Argus is right, they will help Trump's popularity.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 30, 2018, 08:28:06 pm
These people are economic migrants. You can't blame people for wanting a better life but every country has the right to say who gets to enter.

I think Argus is right, they will help Trump's popularity.

What may not help his popularity is this leaked list of 4 dozen questions Mueller wants to ask Trump. He can take the fifth to avoid some of them and invoke executive privilege to avoid others, but the ones pertaining to his financial activities could give him trouble. I'm sure it's noisy in the west wing just now as he fumes over who leaked.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on May 01, 2018, 09:06:47 am
What may not help his popularity is this leaked list of 4 dozen questions Mueller wants to ask Trump. He can take the fifth to avoid some of them and invoke executive privilege to avoid others, but the ones pertaining to his financial activities could give him trouble. I'm sure it's noisy in the west wing just now as he fumes over who leaked.

Current theory is that Trump may have created and "leaked" the list himself. The questions are written in a way that a lawyer wouldn't write them, and contain grammatical errors that may point to Trump himself:

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/385602-muellers-former-assistant-says-grammatical-errors-prove-leaked-questions-came

They may have also been tipped off by repeated use of the word "bigly" and questions like "how do you satisfy women in bed so effectively?" and "don't you ever get tired of winning?"

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 01, 2018, 09:59:16 am
What a circus, it's insane.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 01, 2018, 10:49:03 am
What a circus, it's insane.

Hamfisted circus.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 01, 2018, 11:39:55 am
Current theory is that Trump may have created and "leaked" the list himself. The questions are written in a way that a lawyer wouldn't write them, and contain grammatical errors that may point to Trump himself:

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/385602-muellers-former-assistant-says-grammatical-errors-prove-leaked-questions-came

They may have also been tipped off by repeated use of the word "bigly" and questions like "how do you satisfy women in bed so effectively?" and "don't you ever get tired of winning?"

 -k

Well now that's a "bigly" interesting theory, I wonder what his thinking would be there; to make it look like Mueller is unduly hounding him? I wonder if we'll hear from Mueller on that. Trump does at times display a unique approach to grammar. I doubt very much there is any validity to this theory though.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 01, 2018, 01:54:13 pm
Apparently Sarah Sanders has a problem with grammar also. She seems not to know the difference between "has" and "had", or at least when it comes to discussing Iran's nuclear capability.

http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/385595-white-house-adjusts-statement-that-said-iran-has-secret-nuclear-weapons
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 01, 2018, 04:05:04 pm
Apparently Sarah Sanders has a problem with grammar also. She seems not to know the difference between "has" and "had", or at least when it comes to discussing Iran's nuclear capability.

http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/385595-white-house-adjusts-statement-that-said-iran-has-secret-nuclear-weapons

Sounds like someone has a very short memory and it's 2002 again. Wonder how they will screw this one up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 01, 2018, 05:06:20 pm
This just in: Mueller asks courts for a 2 month delay before sentencing Flynn. He must have a lengthy story to tell. We'ss be seeing some WH tweets shortly I imagine.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on May 01, 2018, 05:25:20 pm
Mueller asks courts for a 2 month delay before sentencing Flynn.

Maybe he figures the Pardoner in Chief will be behind bars shortly.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 01, 2018, 11:46:08 pm
Maybe he figures the Pardoner in Chief will be behind bars shortly.

Ha ha, now that's a bit of strategy I bet Donald didn't think of.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on May 02, 2018, 01:39:41 am
I wonder what his thinking would be there; to make it look like Mueller is unduly hounding him? 

Leaks fake list one day, blasts Mueller for not being able to control leaks from his team the next day-- attempt to make Mueller look unprofessional or not in control of his operation.   Also, he claims the list of questions proves he's not being questioned about collusion. 

They may have also been tipped off by repeated use of the word "bigly" and questions like "how do you satisfy women in bed so effectively?" and "don't you ever get tired of winning?"

And on a semi-related note, the least surprising Trump revelation of the past two years.  Dr Harold Bornstein states that the health examination bearing his name and presented to the public was written by Trump.  This of course is the letter that said Trump "tested positive for everything" and would be "the healthiest president in history" while also noting his extraordinary physical strength and stamina. I am sure that the phrase "enormous genitals" must have appeared in that letter as well.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 02, 2018, 05:54:05 am
Still mashing buttons, hoping to make something happen.  I don't believe they colluded except maybe to get damning info on Clinton.  If Trump knew about that then we're in for some constitution-busting drama I guess....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on May 02, 2018, 06:33:28 am
You have to have a direct connection between Trump and someone from Russia. Indirect via handlers, children, managers, etc., gives him sufficient distance to use the plausible denial shtick, i.e., no one told me. That believe it or not is sufficient in American law. That plausible defence is sufficient because presumption of innocence must be applied.

People think if the son-in-law or what of his sycophants or lackies did something for him, its enough to impeach Trump.No its not. Not legally. You can't impeach on direct evidence. You must create a direct link which is why they want to question him. Trump shoots off the mouth on twitter but so far he has no direct link to speaking to any Russian and he can plead the 5th amendment in the US.

Now people think if he looks indirectly involved through others, that's enough to turf him. No its not. It has political implications in that it looks bad, but this is 2018. Since when does anything that makes Trump look bad do a damn thing?

He uses his twitter and every time dirt is thrown at him he does what narcissists do, he  blasts back portraying himself as the victim.

The media which hates him does not get it. They play into his game. Everytime they try show what a sleeze he is, it makes him an underdog victim and plays into his bad boy anti establishment shtick. He's using a script right out of the World Wrestling Entertainment World. He is simply playing heal and the audience loves a heal. He's actually playing Stone Cold Steve Austin's script. It works. All we have now is a bad boy wrestler. He's another Andy Kaufman wrestling with women and people buy into it.

This is why I think he's getting relected. I mean yesterday was the best. His former doctor with the belly fat just like me (I identify) and weird hair shares a story he uses Rogaine because he doesn't want to go bald? Hah. Did you see that doctor? He is right out of a WWE script. As for the theatre with North Korea, come on man, does anyone believe three weeks ago the world is about to blow up, and three weeks later, that weird fat boy is playing nice and sweet and Donald is taking credit for that and the Olympic?

Theatre of Dadaism. Theatre of the absurd. This is going on. Its all created by Kanye West. Its Satan Illuminati Lizard shapeshifting Aliens from outerspace crap.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 02, 2018, 08:20:54 am

Theatre of Dadaism. Theatre of the absurd. This is going on. Its all created by Kanye West. Its Satan Illuminati Lizard shapeshifting Aliens from outerspace crap.

It's a strong case against democracy, in a configuration where there is no strong public connecting government to people.

You have these huge organizations, lobbyists, and an ignorant public with no access to relevant information.  Then again, they are well fed and starved for entertainment so maybe this is the natural evolution of 'by the people for the people'
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on May 02, 2018, 09:06:43 am
As for the theatre with North Korea, come on man, does anyone believe three weeks ago the world is about to blow up, and three weeks later, that weird fat boy is playing nice and sweet and Donald is taking credit for that and the Olympic?

I think Donald Trump is, ironically, a factor in bringing North Korea to seek peace with the south.   It's kind of like good-cop bad-cop, with Moon Jae In as the good cop and instead of the bad cop, Trump is more like a deranged hobo wandering the neighborhood.  And Kim Jong Un starts getting worried that the hobo is getting more violent and dangerous. He goes and knocks on his neighbor's door and says "hey, I'm really worried about that fat deranged hobo" and Moon says "sure, come inside."

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 02, 2018, 09:18:34 am
It's kind of like good-cop bad-cop, with Moon Jae In as the good cop and instead of the bad cop, Trump is more like a deranged hobo wandering the neighborhood.   

Actually more like "rational irrational actor"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on May 02, 2018, 09:26:06 am
I think Donald Trump is, ironically, a factor in bringing North Korea to seek peace with the south.   It's kind of like good-cop bad-cop, with Moon Jae In as the good cop and instead of the bad cop, Trump is more like a deranged hobo wandering the neighborhood.  And Kim Jong Un starts getting worried that the hobo is getting more violent and dangerous. He goes and knocks on his neighbor's door and says "hey, I'm really worried about that fat deranged hobo" and Moon says "sure, come inside."

 -k
I think collapsing their nuclear testing site had more to do with it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 02, 2018, 12:12:16 pm
Trump goes through yet another lawyer as Ty Cobb announces his departure. At least Trump has been able to keep Emmett Flood who does have previous impeachment experience which may soon come in handy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on May 02, 2018, 12:18:11 pm
Has anyone ever listened to Pink Floyd's Motherl in the context of Donald Trump?

Mother do you think they'll drop the bomb?
Mother do you think they'll like this song?
Mother do you think they'll try to break my balls?
Mother should I build the wall?
Mother should I run for president?
Mother should I trust the government?
Mother will they put me in the firing line?
Mother am I really dying?

Mother do you think she's good enough -- to me?
Mother do you think she's dangerous -- to me?
Mother will she tear your little boy apart?
Mother will she break my heart?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 02, 2018, 12:24:34 pm
I think collapsing their nuclear testing site had more to do with it.

Of course that may not even be true...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 02, 2018, 12:33:11 pm
I think collapsing their nuclear testing site had more to do with it.

From what I hear that site was already essentially out of service due to previous explosions and potential leaks, so one wonders as to Kim's sincerity as to his promises to denuclearize.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/26/north-korea-nuclear-test-site-collapse-may-be-out-of-action-china
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on May 02, 2018, 01:32:29 pm

Mother will they put me in the firing line?
Mother am I really dying?
It's "Is it just a waste of time?", not "am I really dying?", which I guess makes it even more applicable to Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 03, 2018, 11:38:49 am
I wonder if Giulliani is being called on the carpet after his Fox interview where he states that Donald did in fact pay the $130k back to Cohen for the Stormy NDA deal. Wait, didn't we all hear him on AF One state he knows nothing about the $130k? Well at the least it seems Trump has been caught yet again in a blatant lie to add to his already sizable list, and at worst it does little to remove doubt as to whether the payment fits the parameters of an illegal campaign contribution. Another noisy day in the West Wing? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 03, 2018, 09:07:57 pm
This just keeps getting better and better. Now that Giulliani is loose, together with Trump's ramblings those poor folks at FOX don't know what the hell to expect.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 03, 2018, 09:12:57 pm
oh to be a fly on the wall in Mueller's office.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on May 04, 2018, 09:09:10 am
Nice one, Rudy.

  :D

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 04, 2018, 10:56:29 am
Trump said this morning on his way to Marine 1 to go speak to the NRA that Rudy is a great guy, he just needs to "get his facts straight". That may be a bit difficult when those "facts" seem to change day to day. A news reporter made the comment as to "which Donald Trump" will be speaking to the NRA.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 04, 2018, 02:06:34 pm
Just listening to Trump (addressing) no, kissing NRA arse because he knows he's facing trouble with the upcoming mid terms and he needs them on board so we know there is no chance in hell of any sort of changes to gun laws. The streets and the schoolyards of America will continue to be bloodied  while their president **** off to Mara Lago to hit some golf balls.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 05, 2018, 06:14:15 am
Trump said this morning on his way to Marine 1 to go speak to the NRA that Rudy is a great guy, he just needs to "get his facts straight". That may be a bit difficult when those "facts" seem to change day to day. A news reporter made the comment as to "which Donald Trump" will be speaking to the NRA.

The 538 podcast cleared some of this up for me because Rudy G seemed to think the controversy was about Cohen being paid out of campaign funds, which was never being questioned.  He didn't have a clue that this was about an 'in kind' piece of work Cohen did for the campaign that was not declared.  So he futzed it up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 07, 2018, 02:04:37 pm
The 538 podcast cleared some of this up for me because Rudy G seemed to think the controversy was about Cohen being paid out of campaign funds, which was never being questioned.  He didn't have a clue that this was about an 'in kind' piece of work Cohen did for the campaign that was not declared.  So he futzed it up.

He's certainly not acting in the way of a proper lawyer, more like a PR operative and he is certainly screwing that function up as well. I don't imagine a lot of high profile lawyers are lining up to be dragged through the unpredictable nonsense of dealing with Donny boy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 07, 2018, 02:06:55 pm
I found it interesting when one reporter questioned Sarah Sanders today on rumors the Malania doesn't live in the WH but downtown somewhere with relatives. Sarak denied that of course but here credibility is equally as defunct as her boss's. Waiting for her speech from the rose garden.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on May 07, 2018, 02:12:14 pm
I found it interesting when one reporter questioned Sarah Sanders today on rumors the Malania doesn't live in the WH but downtown somewhere with relatives. Sarak denied that of course but here credibility is equally as defunct as her boss's. Waiting for her speech from the rose garden.

Didn't Trump call the White House a dump? Perhaps it is not up to her standards.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 07, 2018, 02:19:17 pm
Didn't Trump call the White House a dump? Perhaps it is not up to her standards.

That could be it. Or the golf course there isn't so good, or, it's too damn noisy in the west wing every morning after Donny sees himself slammed yet again on the early news.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on May 07, 2018, 03:11:37 pm
What did the certain member do, just as a lesson for the rest of us?

White supremacy isn't something that I can allow for legal reasons.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 07, 2018, 09:54:58 pm
White supremacy isn't something that I can allow for legal reasons.

Or for a productive forum. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 08, 2018, 12:07:27 am
I wonder if Trump is having a congratulatory chat with his buddy Putin now that the latter has won yet another "election" which will put him in power for another 6 years after he changed it from the traditional 4. And I wonder if Trump has been given a few pointers on how to ensure success as the midterms approach. I'm sure the NRA would be happy to help out and those Nazi supporters from Charlottesville would be happy to get another gig. Between them they could keep the democrats away from the polls I expect.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on May 08, 2018, 03:12:39 am
Who gets him first?

Mueller has of course got a big stack of indictments against Trump's inner circle, and has been building his case for months.  But Stormy Daniels and Michael Avenatti have burst onto the scene with great aplomb, and Trump and his allies have done such an inept job responding to her that they might actually get the President in big legal trouble.

Quote
I love Stormy Daniels. I wouldn’t necessarily recommend her career path, but the woman’s gumption is awe-inspiring, her tenacity is magnificent, and she seems to have an innate understanding of what scares the bejesus out of the President.
http://nationalpost.com/opinion/kelly-mcparland-stormy-daniels-is-exactly-the-kind-of-person-to-take-on-donald-trump

I wonder if Stormy is helping Mueller, in the sense that she has grabbed such a share of the attention that Mueller is able to go about his work without interference from the Trump administration for the time being.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 08, 2018, 10:17:39 am
Or for a productive forum.

Hear hear.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 08, 2018, 10:48:23 am
Anybody placing bets on what he does with the Iran deal? You have a little over 2 hours.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 08, 2018, 11:02:18 am
Anybody placing bets on what he does with the Iran deal? You have a little over 2 hours.

My guess, he will can it for no other reason than Obama signed it. He has a hate on for anything Obama that defies logic.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 08, 2018, 11:41:06 am
My guess, he will can it for no other reason than Obama signed it. He has a hate on for anything Obama that defies logic.

That's pretty much where I would put my money, although, he does have a habit of huffing and puffing and then pulling back, probably because he gets some advice from those who actually know something about the issue. For instance he made lots of noise about ripping up NAFTA as it was such a stinky deal etc., etc., and I just heard this am that things are going well at the meetings to simply update the agreement. I wonder if he might have had some reigning in on this rather important issue as well. I would say we are better off with the IAEA eyes on the ball than not.  We shall find out shortly. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 08, 2018, 01:33:14 pm
Well there we go, Trump has decided to thumb his nose at Iran who do not have a nuclear missile that will reach the US, and he announces his meeting to go kiss fat Kim's ass, who does have such a missile. Attaboy Trump. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 08, 2018, 02:09:08 pm
Consensus on the FiveThirtyEight podcast is that Trump deserves some credit for the NK breakthrough.

I am inclined to agree that his approach has been significant to fomenting change however I would never 'credit' him with anything that implies forethought.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 08, 2018, 02:31:57 pm
We shall see what actual change occurs however I tend to be hesitant as to the effectiveness of such things as "Fat Kim, Fire and Fury, My button is bigger than your button" . Fingers crossed I guess.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 08, 2018, 02:38:57 pm
  I tend to be hesitant as to the effectiveness of such things as "Fat Kim, Fire and Fury, My button is bigger than your button" . 

I think it's called something like 'rational irrational actor'. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 08, 2018, 02:39:26 pm
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/11/world/asia/north-korea-nuclear-missile-programs-rational.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on May 10, 2018, 11:34:36 am
Well there we go, Trump has decided to thumb his nose at Iran who do not have a nuclear missile that will reach the US, and he announces his meeting to go kiss fat Kim's ass, who does have such a missile. Attaboy Trump.

Plays to his base. Will probably cause oil prices to go up though.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 10, 2018, 11:48:36 am
Plays to his base. Will probably cause oil prices to go up though.

And to a more serious point, a day after his announcement Israel and Iran are firing missiles into Syria. Like as if they needed more of that!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 10, 2018, 09:24:50 pm
I thought Trump said he was going to "drain the swamp, meanwhile he has an aide who is such a scumbag **** as to make a joke about a man who is fighting and dying of cancer who has served his country honorably both in war and in peace. I have worked in a number of those countries Trump referred to as shitholes" and I'll bet you none of them stink anywhere near as bad as the office Trump now presides over.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 11, 2018, 02:47:18 pm
Just finished listening to a WH press briefing. Sarah Sanders continues to reduce her credibility too that less than a **** toad. The ugly part today was her dodging the question as to Kelly Saddler's remark about John McCain that his opinion doesn't matter because he is dying. Even Saddler apologized for that remark. Sarah wouldn't and one can only expect that comes from direction from her boss. The swamp stinks more every day.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on May 12, 2018, 11:02:33 am
Just finished listening to a WH press briefing. Sarah Sanders continues to reduce her credibility too that less than a **** toad. The ugly part today was her dodging the question as to Kelly Saddler's remark about John McCain that his opinion doesn't matter because he is dying. Even Saddler apologized for that remark. Sarah wouldn't and one can only expect that comes from direction from her boss. The swamp stinks more every day.

The more important news, lost in the outrage over Sadler's remark, is that Trump's little minion Michael Cohen took a big wad of cash from AT&T in exchange for "political advice".  The CEO of AT&T described hiring Cohen as "a big mistake" and fired VP Bob Quinn, who apparently led their government/regulatory-focused efforts.

Michael Cohen also received lobbying money from "Novartis", whatever that is, and offered his services to Ford Motor Co, who said "uhhhh, no."

Huckabee-Sanders and Rudy Giuliani have been trying to spin this in a positive light-- saying that even though AT&T hired Cohen, the AT&T/Warner merger was still denied by the administration, which proves that the President wasn't influenced by Cohen.  "this proves we're actually draining the swamp!" she says... even though Trump is the one who brought Cohen to the swamp in the first place.


http://www.businessinsider.com/rudy-giuliani-walks-back-trump-time-warner-att-merger-admission-2018-5

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 12, 2018, 07:33:30 pm
Damn I wish Giuliani hadn't chickened out in the face of the challenge Avenetti put forward as to a debate between the two of them on live TV. Of course that was predictable as he likely knows he'd get smeared. I'd have made fresh popcorn for that one.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/11/giuliani-no-debate-michael-avenatti-583905
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 14, 2018, 11:17:30 am
Well quite the "celebration" in Jerusalem as Trump's new embassy is opened. He once commented in a speech that he would bring peace to the area. So far there are 52 Palestinians shot and killed and ~2400 wounded. Yeah that sounds like peace! Of course Jared and Ivanka are strutting around babbling away trying to sound all kumbaya, but looking like idiots as usual. I wonder if Donald is shaking any of the predictable blood from his tiny hands.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 14, 2018, 03:21:17 pm
Hard to believe but the **** show in Jerusalem under Trump's guidance gets ever shittier: he has two pastors go there to get up and make speeches for his "Grand Opening" of his new American Embassy. Robert Jeffries who once declared that "you can't be saved by being a Jew" and the real "winner, John Hagee who declared at one time that "Hitler was an instrument of God". Meanwhile Israeli soldiers are killing and wounding Palestinian protesters by the hundreds at the Gaza border. As time goes on it seems to become less of a stretch to compare Trump to Hitler.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/13/politics/hagee-jeffress-us-embassy-jerusalem/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on May 14, 2018, 05:21:03 pm
Well quite the "celebration" in Jerusalem as Trump's new embassy is opened. He once commented in a speech that he would bring peace to the area. So far there are 52 Palestinians shot and killed and ~2400 wounded. Yeah that sounds like peace! Of course Jared and Ivanka are strutting around babbling away trying to sound all kumbaya, but looking like idiots as usual. I wonder if Donald is shaking any of the predictable blood from his tiny hands.

I'm not a Trump supporter by any means, but I wonder if anybody in the world would be able to bring peace to the ME without bloodshed?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 14, 2018, 05:30:06 pm
I'm not a Trump supporter by any means, but I wonder if anybody in the world would be able to bring peace to the ME without bloodshed?

That's a difficult question but I would say that if anything sounds likely to succeed in bringing peace to the ME, especially there, would be the "two state solution". That possibility just became far less likely as of today, and for what reason? Netanyahu is a prick IMO, and Trump sucks up to him so he can get the votes in NY.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 14, 2018, 05:54:59 pm
Trump now wants to help out a company in China because they are "losing too many jobs". Of course one of his companies does business with ZTE so he needs them to flourish. As a Canadian I grew up next to the border hearing that American's held their Constitution near and dear. Hey you **** BOZOS, have you ever read the damn thing and came across the "EMOLUMENTS CLAUSE"? It's impeachment material and it's obviously occuring and has been since inauguration.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 15, 2018, 06:20:34 am
I have a ZTE phone !  :D


Also read THIS on leaking in this WH:

https://www.axios.com/trump-white-house-leakers-leak-about-leaking-dae05b8e-e792-41a7-bb74-c2756b542cd0.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=twsocialshare&utm_campaign=organic
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 15, 2018, 08:53:42 am
I have a ZTE phone !  :D


Also read THIS on leaking in this WH:

https://www.axios.com/trump-white-house-leakers-leak-about-leaking-dae05b8e-e792-41a7-bb74-c2756b542cd0.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=twsocialshare&utm_campaign=organic

Doesn't sound like a place where I'd like to work

.“Bad managers almost always breed an unhappy workplace,

And it appears the WH currently has a pretty bad manager. I heard a tV reporter recently who had toted up that since Trump took office there has been a member of his inner circle leave the job on average every 2.5 days. That doesn't sound like a stable environment from which to run a country.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 15, 2018, 09:02:30 am
All signs point to a ridiculous leader who is disengaged from reality.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 15, 2018, 09:06:04 am
All signs point to a ridiculous leader who is disengaged from reality.

Perhaps his "bone spurs" are interfering with his decision making.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 15, 2018, 06:21:12 pm
Well it looks like "fat Kim" may be trying to mess with the proposed meeting next month by complaining about already planned military exercises in the area. It will be interesting to see if Trump has the brains to simply ignore this little bump in the road or will he fall for Kim's bait. We'll see what shows up on his tweet account early am tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 16, 2018, 06:01:25 am
  We'll see what shows up on his tweet account early am tomorrow.

Trump is way too invested in this thing working as it is ostensibly the one breakthrough he could claim some form of credit for.  As such, he will have to eat **** on this deal and every single one that he is renegotiating to be more in the US's "favour".  His fan base won't care or know the difference between success or failure.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 16, 2018, 12:22:08 pm
Trump is way too invested in this thing working as it is ostensibly the one breakthrough he could claim some form of credit for.  As such, he will have to eat **** on this deal and every single one that he is renegotiating to be more in the US's "favour".  His fan base won't care or know the difference between success or failure.

He appeared to be "eating ****" when questioned on the issue by reporters this am. All he would say in response was "we'll have to wait and see". Trump as we know is uually way more noisy than that when he thinks he might not be getting his way. However he has another issue as the Senate intel committee has concluded that evidence shows Putin and the Rusky's did in fact interfere in in the 2016 election to specifically help Trump and hurt Hillary. Haven't heard his official reply to that one yet, but I bet if you were anywhere near the West Wing you would hear a very loud version of it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 17, 2018, 08:11:03 pm
Have a listen/look at this pair of redneck **** running for governor of Georgia. Kemp in his little bullshit video actually points a shotgun at his son. I suspect even these "good ole boys" are not quite as ignorant and stupid as they look, but they know **** well their base is. Trump is in full support of course. It must be a truly embarrassing time for Americans who have more than two brain cells to rub together.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/15/politics/georgia-governor-candidates-deportation-bus-trnd/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 18, 2018, 11:02:05 am
Well today it's Sante Fe Texas' turn to have a school shooting. I'm hearing between 8-10 dead but it's early stages so they haven't yet been through the whole of the school. One person in custody who was of course a student. If I was going to speculate it will be some guy who other students knew had some sort of anger/mental problems who probably walked over to the corner store and legally purchased a rifle and headed on to school. And this will prompt Trump to try and increase spending for training so school teachers can tote guns around the classroom.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 18, 2018, 11:13:27 am
Meh. Next.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 18, 2018, 11:43:56 am
Meh. Next.

It's getting to seem that way alright.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 18, 2018, 12:18:12 pm
It's getting to seem that way alright.

It is the same way. Same old meaningless platitudes from the same old actors and on to the next one.

We'll see if the March for Our Lives movement has any legs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on May 18, 2018, 12:21:42 pm
It is the same way. Same old meaningless platitudes from the same old actors and on to the next one.

We'll see if the March for Our Lives movement has any legs.

Thoughts and Prayers......
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 18, 2018, 12:30:52 pm
It is the same way. Same old meaningless platitudes from the same old actors and on to the next one.

We'll see if the March for Our Lives movement has any legs.

Well the latest count is 10 dead. As tragic as that is, it should keep the marchers motivated.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 18, 2018, 01:36:14 pm
I did the math, that's a school shooting every ~6 days so far this year in the US. I suppose Wayne LaPierre will be clapping his hands anticipating gun sales will go up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 18, 2018, 02:59:12 pm
A scary stat that has now emerged is that a high school student in the US is more likely to be killed at school by gun violence than an American military service member in a foreign war.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 20, 2018, 01:29:00 pm
Trump's bat **** crazy tweets have stepped over a new line this am. He now "demands" that the DOJ investigate Obama with regard to any possibility of informants who may have been associated during the 2016 election. I guess he hasn't heard about "separation of powers" and wants to engage the DOJ as his personal police force.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 21, 2018, 03:13:32 pm
Yes that was just ridiculous.  The Republican Party is now culpable if they don't disown and discredit this statement.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 22, 2018, 02:45:12 pm
I hope they are paying Sarah Sanders well, (and I'm sure they are) because it must be somewhat soul destroying to have to get up at press conferences and, at the very least obfuscate, or more often simply lie through her teeth to protect an idiot boss who seems to revel in lying. I guess she's of the same ilk. After all she is a southern gal which seems to be where most of Trump's knuckle dragger base seem to hale from. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 22, 2018, 04:27:40 pm
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/22/nyregion/michael-cohen-trump-taxi-cooperation.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

Cohen's business partner takes a plea...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 22, 2018, 04:42:40 pm
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/22/nyregion/michael-cohen-trump-taxi-cooperation.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

Cohen's business partner takes a plea...

I've been just hearing about that on the TV news. I allowed myself to get sidetracked, (I'm supposed to be mowing the lawn).  Mueller may have a hard time wrapping up his investigation if the rats keep jumping from the sinking ship.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 22, 2018, 05:27:14 pm
By Sept 1 you mean ?

Nah -Rudy made it up (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/21/giuliani-made-up-robert-mueller-deadline-for-trump-probe-report.html)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 22, 2018, 07:42:52 pm
By Sept 1 you mean ?

Nah -Rudy made it up (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/21/giuliani-made-up-robert-mueller-deadline-for-trump-probe-report.html)

Mueller probably wishes he could wrap it up by then, but the hits just keep on comin'.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 22, 2018, 08:25:13 pm
And I think the latest suggestions about putting guns into the hands of school students as well as teachers. Thar way, when the bad guy with the gun shows up, the good guys with guns will be able to significantly increase the death toll. Before you know it, we Canadians won't have to bother clearing customs to head to Florida when it gets cold up here.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on May 23, 2018, 02:58:38 am
Did Ollie North come up with that idea?

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 23, 2018, 08:54:57 am
Quote
Broidy’s account raises a lot of questions — and I believe a more plausible explanation of all the facts at hand is that he agreed to pay Bechard seven figures as a favor to Donald Trump, who actually impregnated Bechard, and then needed to hush her up about their affair and her subsequent abortion.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/05/more-evidence-that-broidy-was-covering-for-trump-in-affair.html

NY Mag article will likely test Christian hypocrisy even more...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 23, 2018, 11:13:25 am
Did Ollie North come up with that idea?

 -k

Probably Ollie with inspiration from Wayne LaPierre. In any case it seems to sit well with Trump. Hey that NRA money comes in damn handy at re-election time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on May 23, 2018, 11:24:33 am
And I think the latest suggestions about putting guns into the hands of school students as well as teachers. Thar way, when the bad guy with the gun shows up, the good guys with guns will be able to significantly increase the death toll. Before you know it, we Canadians won't have to bother clearing customs to head to Florida when it gets cold up here.

There's a much easier way to avoid school shootings. Don't live in places like Texas or Georgia. Move to New York or New Jersey, where this sort of thing does not happen.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 23, 2018, 11:40:41 am
There's a much easier way to avoid school shootings. Don't live in places like Texas or Georgia. Move to New York or New Jersey, where this sort of thing does not happen.

Um, actually you may have heard of the Sandy Hook school shooting, which happens to be  the deadliest in US history to date. It's in Newtown Connecticut which borders New York state. Granted there are certainly more in the south, which is not surprising given that the strong right leaning people who live there seem to cherish their 2nd amendment more than life itself. My point though was that adding more guns to schools wherever they may be isn't a very smart solution to the problem IMO.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on May 23, 2018, 12:03:38 pm
Um, actually you may have heard of the Sandy Hook school shooting, which happens to be  the deadliest in US history to date. It's in Newtown Connecticut which borders New York state. Granted there are certainly more in the south, which is not surprising given that the strong right leaning people who live there seem to cherish their 2nd amendment more than life itself. My point though was that adding more guns to schools wherever they may be isn't a very smart solution to the problem IMO.

There have been 16 school spree shootings in Texas. The same in Georgia. And I think it's 17 in Florida.
There have been none in New York or New Jersey.

I might point out that Texas, Georgia and Florida have some of the weakest gun laws in America while New York and New Jersey and, since Sandy Hook, when they brought in sweeping new gun control legislation, Connecticut, have some of the strongest gun control laws in America.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 23, 2018, 12:44:26 pm
There have been 16 school spree shootings in Texas. The same in Georgia. And I think it's 17 in Florida.
There have been none in New York or New Jersey.

I might point out that Texas, Georgia and Florida have some of the weakest gun laws in America while New York and New Jersey and, since Sandy Hook, when they brought in sweeping new gun control legislation, Connecticut, have some of the strongest gun control laws in America.

That's great but what about the people who don't have the opportunity to move to Connecticut? I doubt Trump will have any kind of enough backbone to back up any of his statements on gun control lest he **** off the NRA. So they'll need to keep the ambulances gassed up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 23, 2018, 01:38:14 pm
Posting to read later:

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/why-i-left-team-maga/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 23, 2018, 08:57:54 pm
I just listened to a segment of Hannity on Fox (Faux), you know because I like to hear all sides of a story. What a hoot it was to listen to him interviewing Sean Spicer, who was caught in a number of lies especially the numbers of Trump supporters at the inauguration, and Newt Gingrich (need I say more?) and watching them trying build this case to oppose the Mueller investigation into election meddling by saying they want an investigation into the investigation and of course it comes off sounding like schoolyard IQ level "I know you are, but what am I?" It's scary to think people are actually swayed by this nonsense. I'll tell you I was raised on a farm until I was in my teens and I recall it took us the better part of a day to load a manure spreader and spread a load of horse **** over a field. Hannity and Co. can do it in 20 minutes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on May 23, 2018, 09:08:56 pm
That's great but what about the people who don't have the opportunity to move to Connecticut? I doubt Trump will have any kind of enough backbone to back up any of his statements on gun control lest he **** off the NRA. So they'll need to keep the ambulances gassed up.

Well the answer is simple. People who love their kids more than their guns need to vote for politicians at the state level who will implement reasonable gun control laws.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 23, 2018, 09:18:31 pm
Well the answer is simple. People who love their kids more than their guns need to vote for politicians at the state level who will implement reasonable gun control laws.

Well hopefully efforts such as "March for our lives" stay strong and have an effect. It's about time I would say.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 23, 2018, 09:29:51 pm
Nothing will have any effect.   another week and this will blow over.  Republican politicians don’t even try and give pat answers anymore.   They just blame too many doors in schools, video games and rock’n’roll for the mass shootings.  And their supporters agree...   kids lives aren’t worth having to lock up your gun, background checks or limiting magazine capacities.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 23, 2018, 10:10:45 pm
Nothing will have any effect.   another week and this will blow over.  Republican politicians don’t even try and give pat answers anymore.   They just blame too many doors in schools, video games and rock’n’roll for the mass shootings.  And their supporters agree...   kids lives aren’t worth having to lock up your gun, background checks or limiting magazine capacities.

I suspect you are right, as sad as that is. The NRA has a lot more money/influence than any group of high school students will likely ever have. I'm sure Colt, Remington etc. will contribute handsomely to Trumps re- election.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 23, 2018, 10:53:45 pm
I suspect you are right, as sad as that is. The NRA has a lot more money/influence than any group of high school students will likely ever have. I'm sure Colt, Remington etc. will contribute handsomely to Trumps re- election.

Even a “progressive” state like Washington is an open-carry state where the gun nuts and NRA have already won.   Cat’s out of the bag....   all we can do is increase our security at the border to try and keep the nonsense south of us.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 24, 2018, 12:24:02 am
Even a “progressive” state like Washington is an open-carry state where the gun nuts and NRA have already won.   Cat’s out of the bag....   all we can do is increase our security at the border to try and keep the nonsense south of us.

The first two people I happened to be unlucky enough to have seen get shot (outside of war zones) were in Florida, near Ft. Lauderdale where I used to have a small sailboat for a winter escape when I was on time off. Both at different times but both within a stones throw of each other and both the result over fights over girlfriends that got out of hand. Neither of those ended up in death (luckily) but I was shaken for sure. After the second one and once I recouped I decided to just see how easy it would be to get a gun. I went to a nearby gun shop and looked around. The stuff hanging on the wall was amazing. I went to the clerk and said I was thinking about something for protection on my sailboat. He suggested a sawed off choked shot gun since in that situation I wouldn't need long range. I advised him I was a Canadian citizen and so was I eligible to purchase a firearm. He asked if I had a valid drivers license, which I did, but in those days BC drivers licenses didn't have a photo so that was a show stopper. But what I could do was go down the street to the state office and for 35 bucks have a Florida state DL issued with my pic on it and come back and he could sell me anything in the store. Had I have followed up I could have walked back to my boat with a semi automatic weapon.
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 24, 2018, 09:04:11 am
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-north-korea-demolishes-nuke-test-site-with-series-of-blasts/

Trump cancels NK summit... recaps nuclear superiority...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on May 24, 2018, 09:41:27 am
Trump says NFL players who kneel during the anthem don't belong in America.  (America is for "very fine people".)

I hope people resist the temptation to get mad about this and keep their attention focused where it belongs, because Trump is obviously just talking about protesting NFL players to deflect attention from more pressing concerns.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 24, 2018, 11:04:01 am
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-north-korea-demolishes-nuke-test-site-with-series-of-blasts/

Trump cancels NK summit... recaps nuclear superiority...

And then the dumb ass, in typical Trump style schoolyard bully fashion releases his letter, which when you read it, could only have been written by Trump himself. He is currently making a statement at the WH and as usual he can barely read from his cue cards and string two sentences together without reminding me of the days in grade one when learning how to read "see Spot run. See Spot chase the ball"...Sheesh!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on May 24, 2018, 11:25:51 am
Trump says NFL players who kneel during the anthem don't belong in America.  (America is for "very fine people".)

I hope people resist the temptation to get mad about this and keep their attention focused where it belongs, because Trump is obviously just talking about protesting NFL players to deflect attention from more pressing concerns.

 -k

It was inevitable Trump would comment on the NFL decision to ban kneeling during the playing of the national anthem. And if by some miracle he didn't, someone would have asked for a comment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 24, 2018, 02:48:14 pm
Just heard a comment on CNN that Trump didtated every single word of his letter to "Fat Kim". Somehow I'm not surprised when you read it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 25, 2018, 12:52:54 pm
They do the same things, but while Harvey Weinstein gets led into court in handcuffs, Trump gets to fly around in Air Force One. Luck o' the draw I guess.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/26/16526922/harvey-weinstein-donald-trump-sexual-harassment

The allegations against Weinstein and Trump are strikingly similar. Why have the outcomes been so different?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on May 25, 2018, 01:46:36 pm
Why have the outcomes been so different?

It has to do with the self righteous being anything but.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on May 26, 2018, 02:16:30 pm
They do the same things, but while Harvey Weinstein gets led into court in handcuffs, Trump gets to fly around in Air Force One. Luck o' the draw I guess.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/26/16526922/harvey-weinstein-donald-trump-sexual-harassment

The allegations against Weinstein and Trump are strikingly similar. Why have the outcomes been so different?

Trump has not been accused of ****, so far as I'm aware.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 26, 2018, 02:25:18 pm
Trump has not been accused of ****, so far as I'm aware.

He's already admitted to assault. Just give it time. And in case you missed it, Ivana accused him of **** but was constrained by yet another NDA after their divorce.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on May 27, 2018, 12:17:30 pm
Donald Trump decides to lift sanctions against Chinese cell-phone maker ZTE, and BY AMAZING COINCIDENCE China has approved more trademarks for Ivanka's business.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/ivanka-gets-5-china-trademarks-as-president-works-zte-deal_us_5b0a07eee4b0568a880c0a0d

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 27, 2018, 12:45:39 pm
Donald Trump decides to lift sanctions against Chinese cell-phone maker ZTE, and BY AMAZING COINCIDENCE China has approved more trademarks for Ivanka's business.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/ivanka-gets-5-china-trademarks-as-president-works-zte-deal_us_5b0a07eee4b0568a880c0a0d

 -k

Could it be I smell something a little SWAMPY here? It seems we should soon be able to float an ocean liner on this swamp that was supposed to be drained.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on May 27, 2018, 05:45:22 pm
Donald Trump decides to lift sanctions against Chinese cell-phone maker ZTE, and BY AMAZING COINCIDENCE China has approved more trademarks for Ivanka's business.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/ivanka-gets-5-china-trademarks-as-president-works-zte-deal_us_5b0a07eee4b0568a880c0a0d

 -k
If the people who support Trump had principles, this would be a deal breaker for their "America First" mentality.

But they don't, so.....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 28, 2018, 12:24:40 pm
Trump really stepped in it today with another of his sick tweets, this time on Memorial Day. He starts out honoring the fallen and then goes completely over the cliff discussing how they would enjoy America today as he blabs on about the economy and employment rates and on and on. Perhaps someone should have pointed out to him that the day is to honor people who are DEAD, and don't give a rats ass about what he's done in office so far. What a tone deaf ****. I wonder if this will be enough to catch the ear of even his base
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on May 28, 2018, 12:33:13 pm
Perhaps someone should have pointed out to him that the day is to honor people who are DEAD, and don't give a rats ass about what he's done in office so far.

With Trump, everything is about himself. Even the sacrifice of fallen soldiers is about Trump.

What a friggen jerk.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 28, 2018, 01:00:31 pm
And what timing, now Ivanka steps up to demonstrate she truly is cut from the same cloth as her old man by posting a picture of herself cuddling her baby at the same time as Donald tweets about the fact that the administration has lost track of ~1500 immigrant children who were takenfrom their parents and apparently placed in foster care. It seems the Trump's think about the Trumps and everybody else can go **** up a rope.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on May 28, 2018, 03:04:15 pm
Okay, I don't get that last complaint.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 28, 2018, 03:15:28 pm
Okay, I don't get that last complaint.

As the media reverberated with stories about the 1,500 missing immigrant children rounded up by the federal government, Ivanka Trump decided to tweet a photo of herself Sunday cuddling her young son.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/ivanka-cuddle-pic-missing-migrant-kids_us_5b0b34afe4b0fdb2aa54c215
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 28, 2018, 03:26:17 pm
They took an 18-month old away from their mother ?

 ???
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on May 28, 2018, 06:26:55 pm
As the media reverberated with stories about the 1,500 missing immigrant children rounded up by the federal government, Ivanka Trump decided to tweet a photo of herself Sunday cuddling her young son.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/ivanka-cuddle-pic-missing-migrant-kids_us_5b0b34afe4b0fdb2aa54c215

Sure, but she's not the President and has nothing to do with it.  I consider this to be petty and small politics.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on May 28, 2018, 07:30:55 pm
Sure, but she's not the President and has nothing to do with it.

She is not just the President's daughter, she works in the White House and has weighed in on immigration issues before.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 28, 2018, 07:41:32 pm
Sure, but she's not the President and has nothing to do with it.  I consider this to be petty and small politics.

"Petty and small" is about all that emanates from the current White House.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 28, 2018, 10:22:45 pm
I get a kick out of watching the look on the faces of these Fox people during Trump's crazy rant. Especially since they are usually Trump ass kissers. Even they seem to be getting the message.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/26/media/trump-call-to-fox-and-friends/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on May 29, 2018, 11:21:40 am
I get a kick out of watching the look on the faces of these Fox people during Trump's crazy rant. Especially since they are usually Trump ass kissers. Even they seem to be getting the message.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/26/media/trump-call-to-fox-and-friends/index.html

I think there's an element of trolling on both sides. Trump says stuff to make people on the left go insane.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 29, 2018, 11:36:19 am
I think there's an element of trolling on both sides. Trump says stuff to make people on the left go insane.

That's because he says a lot of "stuff" that indicate HE is insane.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on May 29, 2018, 11:41:16 am
That's because he says a lot of "stuff" that indicate HE is insane.

I don't doubt that. But his whole Twitter persona is meant to make people who disagree with him angry. I'm kind of numb to it at this point, and I guess that's the goal. Be so outrageous that people tire of it an ignore the small stuff that could turn into big stuff.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 29, 2018, 12:07:06 pm
I don't doubt that. But his whole Twitter persona is meant to make people who disagree with him angry. I'm kind of numb to it at this point, and I guess that's the goal. Be so outrageous that people tire of it an ignore the small stuff that could turn into big stuff.

I would venture a guess it will all come back to haunt him at the mid terms. That word impeachment seems to be on a lot of peoples lips who expect him to lose control of Congress in November.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 29, 2018, 01:03:43 pm
ABC cancels Roseanne over Barr's racist tweets. Too bad the same can't be done to her mentor's show.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 29, 2018, 01:20:28 pm
Kudos to ABC for finally having the good sense to kick that racist **** to the curb. I never saw what made the show so popular anyway. I guess I don't quite get middle America either.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 29, 2018, 06:38:36 pm
Problem is, some good people will have lost their jobs because of her.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on May 30, 2018, 08:59:59 am
Yes, no sympathy at all for Roseanne herself, but I do feel bad for the crew that worked on the show, and for other cast members who need the work a lot more than Roseanne or John Goodman.  Maybe they could continue it as "Dan", a working-class American family trying to carry on after mom has a sudden off-camera heart-attack.


When I read about the show getting axed, I decided to go check out Breitbart because I figured they'd be portraying it as a "conservative voice silenced by political correctness and liberal media elites."   Nope.  Not even they were willing to defend her. The editorial I read basically said "sorry, guys, but this isn't triggered snowflakes, this is appalling racism, and ABC has a business to run and so of course they had to dump her."  When you've gone so far that not even Breitbart will defend you, you've  screwed up, bigly.


Alex Jones, on the other hand, is angry that a fellow conspiritard has been silenced for speaking the truth and of course wants to get her back on his show as soon as possible.  Maybe Roseanne can join up with Rob Schneider and Tila Tequila and Jenny McCarthy and Charlie Sheen and other Hollywood nutjobs and do a "Hollywood Can't Handle The Truth" tour.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 30, 2018, 12:53:20 pm
Barr blames Ambien now. Sanofi says racism isn't a known side effect of any of their drugs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 30, 2018, 08:26:31 pm
So Trump once again demonstrates his lack of cajones by responding to Barr's racist crap by sending his little hand puppet Sarah Sanders out to whine about people who made previous comments against Trump. He's managed to become the schoolyard bully and the schoolyard crybaby at the same time. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 30, 2018, 09:45:35 pm
And now in the midst of the current turmoil over racist comments Donald claims that African Americans pretty well always vote Democrat and have done  so for over a century. So which is t, is he simply ignorant of the history of the country he now presides over, or is he simply ignorant of mathematics. Let's see now, 1965 to 2018 is not really close to 100 years. Or does he just not know that's when African Americans were given the right to vote?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on May 31, 2018, 12:09:54 am
Maybe Sarah Huckabee Sanders can play the part of Roseanne in a future reboot.  She's certainly got the face and the figure for it.


As for Trump, how typical for him to turn this into something about himself. "Why no apology for Trump?"  Why does Trump talk about Trump in the third person?  And if Trump feels there ought to be apologies for personal remarks, he ought to start.  He's got thousands to issue. 

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on May 31, 2018, 10:29:37 am
So they're finally doing the Tariff thing because NAFTA talks aren't going so well.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 31, 2018, 10:31:17 am
So they're finally doing the Tariff thing because NAFTA talks aren't going so well.

This idiot is going to set off an intercontinental trade-war that will be difficult to descale....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 31, 2018, 10:45:29 am
This idiot is going to set off an intercontinental trade-war that will be difficult to descale....

It's actual international as the EU is included. They have already suggested a list of products they plan to tax in retaliation. As has been pointed out by a GOP congressman, "trade wars don't Make America Great, they're part of what caused the great depression of 1929."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 31, 2018, 12:03:47 pm
This idiot is going to set off an intercontinental trade-war that will be difficult to descale....

Not sure about that. This trade war is between the US and the rest of the world. Bad enough in itself but this is Trump's war, not a world war.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on May 31, 2018, 12:34:56 pm
So they're finally doing the Tariff thing because NAFTA talks aren't going so well.

How about we put a tariff on stupidity imported from the US. If you vote for Doug Ford, your taxes are automatically doubled.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 31, 2018, 02:24:43 pm
Not sure about that. This trade war is between the US and the rest of the world. Bad enough in itself but this is Trump's war, not a world war.

World Wars are usually between one or two countries and the rest of the world....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on May 31, 2018, 02:26:32 pm
When I read about the show getting axed, I decided to go check out Breitbart because I figured they'd be portraying it as a "conservative voice silenced by political correctness and liberal media elites."   Nope.  Not even they were willing to defend her. The editorial I read basically said "sorry, guys, but this isn't triggered snowflakes, this is appalling racism, and ABC has a business to run and so of course they had to dump her."  When you've gone so far that not even Breitbart will defend you, you've  screwed up, bigly.

Don't worry. FOX news is still on her side.

Every one of Fox News’ primetime shows on Wednesday night did segments on Roseanne Barr and ABC’s cancellation of Roseanne. And every one of them — Tucker Carlson Tonight, Hannity, and The Ingraham Angle — tried to build a pro-Roseanne case. Sure, each of the hosts paid cursory lip service to condemning Roseanne’s racist tweets, but did so with such swiftness, you may have missed it. What they all dwelled on, at length, was the party line you can see now taking root on Fox News and in conservative media, which boils down to this: What about Bill Clinton/Hillary Clinton/Obama/Jimmy Kimmel/Keith Olbermann/Joy Behar/Alec Baldwin/pick-your-least-favorite-liberal? Sean Hannity even attacked Wanda Sykes, a consulting producer for Roseanne and one of the first people to quit the show after Barr’s tweets.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/fox-news-now-leading-resurrect-roseanne-campaign-134050317.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 31, 2018, 03:28:52 pm
Trump now seems poised to sign off on pardons as fast as his little hands can. And those pardons seem they will be focused on cases that Comey had anything to do with. I guess Cohen must be feeling buoyed as well as anyone else who might have a run in with Mueller. So I guess the take away is as long as you're a buddy of Donald's you can get away with anything, he'll just write you up a pardon. And the question comes to mind once again, can Trump pardon himself?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 31, 2018, 04:45:45 pm
World Wars are usually between one or two countries and the rest of the world....

Except the rest of the world can work around the US in a trade war. No mistake, the size of the US economy makes it very serious but this isn't the fifties and sixties when Europe and Asia were still recovering from WW2 and the US had no real competition. This is something Trumpers fail to understand in their rush to turn back the clock.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on May 31, 2018, 07:01:32 pm
And Doug Ford says his support for Trump is unwavering, in spite of the massive tariffs Canada now faces. No policy platform and he's swinging from Trump's balls. Only a complete imbecile would vote for the PCs in Ontario.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 31, 2018, 07:18:09 pm
And Doug Ford says his support for Trump is unwavering, in spite of the massive tariffs Canada now faces. No policy platform and he's swinging from Trump's balls. Only a complete imbecile would vote for the PCs in Ontario.

He SUPPORTS the guy who is imposing tariffs on us ???

Gawd he is waay stupider than I thought.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 31, 2018, 07:20:32 pm
How about we put a tariff on stupidity imported from the US. If you vote for Doug Ford, your taxes are automatically doubled.

Or we could put a mortgage on every NDP or Liberal voter.  Vote for either and your personal debt get's tripled just like real life!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 31, 2018, 07:28:03 pm
And what timing, now Ivanka steps up to demonstrate she truly is cut from the same cloth as her old man by posting a picture of herself cuddling her baby at the same time as Donald tweets about the fact that the administration has lost track of ~1500 immigrant children who were takenfrom their parents and apparently placed in foster care. It seems the Trump's think about the Trumps and everybody else can go **** up a rope.

The kids, usually unaccompanied minors, were put in the care of usually parents or family etc. living in the US who were themselves vetted.  Many of them came to the US illegally and don't have status themselves, so the gov made phone calls to these families to check on the kids and the guardians of 1500 kids worth of families of them didn't pick up the phone, likely because they fear for their own immigration status.

There's no indication to say these kids have fled or been kidnapped or are being trafficked.  This is media and social media sensationalism.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2018/may/29/sorting-out-facts-about-nearly-1500-lost-children-/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 31, 2018, 08:49:21 pm
The kids, usually unaccompanied minors, were put in the care of usually parents or family etc. living in the US who were themselves vetted.  Many of them came to the US illegally and don't have status themselves, so the gov made phone calls to these families to check on the kids and the guardians of 1500 kids worth of families of them didn't pick up the phone, likely because they fear for their own immigration status.

There's no indication to say these kids have fled or been kidnapped or are being trafficked.  This is media and social media sensationalism.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2018/may/29/sorting-out-facts-about-nearly-1500-lost-children-/

There's no indication of just where they bloody well are so how do you know what is happening to them? More ineptitude in the Trump administration.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 31, 2018, 08:58:49 pm
Or we could put a mortgage on every NDP or Liberal voter.  Vote for either and your personal debt get's tripled just like real life!

If you bone up a bit on actual economic records of the major parties you'll find out that your debt was increased the most under the guidance of the PC's.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 31, 2018, 11:34:37 pm
Conservatives also had the misfortune of being in power during the period of greatest inflation and highest interest rates in the 20th century as well as the biggest world economic meltdown since the Great Depression. Probably had something to do with deficits.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 01, 2018, 01:18:34 am
Conservatives also had the misfortune of being in power during the period of greatest inflation and highest interest rates in the 20th century as well as the biggest world economic meltdown since the Great Depression. Probably had something to do with deficits.

Harper inherited a surplus of 13.8 billion surplus and turned it into a 5.8 billion deficit in two years. What more need said?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 01, 2018, 07:34:37 am
That's a good thing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 01, 2018, 09:29:28 am
Harper inherited a surplus of 13.8 billion surplus and turned it into a 5.8 billion deficit in two years. What more need said?

In 2009 every western government was running massive deficits for the same reason, trying to stimulate their economies. The Liberals were calling for massive increases in EI benefits at the same time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 01, 2018, 11:58:06 am
He SUPPORTS the guy who is imposing tariffs on us ???

Gawd he is waay stupider than I thought.

If you google that 'unwavering support' quote you'll find it came in 2016, before Trump was elected. Which is probably why he didn't include any kind of link or citation.

Still stupid. I'd long soured on Trump by then, but not as stupid as saying it today.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 01, 2018, 12:00:02 pm
In 2009 every western government was running massive deficits for the same reason, trying to stimulate their economies. The Liberals were calling for massive increases in EI benefits at the same time.

Liberals keep thinking we're going to forget that joint news conference they held with the NDP and BQ to say they were going to vote no confidence in the tories and take over together because of the urgency of implementing a massive incentive spending program the tories weren't interested in.

We haven't.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 01, 2018, 12:02:07 pm
Conservatives also had the misfortune of being in power during the period of greatest inflation and highest interest rates in the 20th century as well as the biggest world economic meltdown since the Great Depression. Probably had something to do with deficits.

Any sane person recognizes that the Liberals started the debt. They blew it up big time, and then Mulroney inherited it, along with stagflation and double digit interest rates that exploded the debt due to no fault of theirs.

Likewise any honest person would admit that the big spending and deficits during the last recession would have happened regardless of which party was in power.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 01, 2018, 12:04:42 pm
In 2009 every western government was running massive deficits for the same reason, trying to stimulate their economies. The Liberals were calling for massive increases in EI benefits at the same time.

And Harper continued on to leave in his wake the worst  fiscal record of any post war government. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 01, 2018, 12:04:50 pm
If you google that 'unwavering support' quote you'll find it came in 2016, before Trump was elected. Which is probably why he didn't include any kind of link or citation.

Still stupid. I'd long soured on Trump by then, but not as stupid as saying it today.

I have to redouble my efforts to look at these things more closely.  I have been taken by at least 2 of these in the past 2 weeks.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 01, 2018, 12:30:36 pm
Well at the moment one of Fat Kim's top aides is delivering his bosses to Trump in the Oval Office. I'll be interested to see what shakes out of that. I bet Trump's aides (such as Bolton for one) will be looking over his shoulder and gnashing their teeth concerned that their boss will bumble into something he is not prepared for because he likes the PR image he is hoping for. I wonder what the odds are in Vegas as to whether the meeting happens or not.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 01, 2018, 12:45:17 pm
And Harper continued on to leave in his wake the worst  fiscal record of any post war government.

Whatever.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 01, 2018, 01:03:02 pm
and so Trump tries to justify his tariffs on Canada due to a trade surplus we have with the US, when in actual fact it's the other way around. You would think a business man such as he claims to be would understand the numbers better. So is he not really as astute as he says, or just plain lying to try once again to appeal to his base?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on June 01, 2018, 01:57:24 pm
Conservatives also had the misfortune of being in power during the period of greatest inflation and highest interest rates in the 20th century as well as the biggest world economic meltdown since the Great Depression. Probably had something to do with deficits.

Harper, the second worst of Conservative governments concerning deficits (Mulroney has #1 spot) had the lowest interest rates ever and fairly average inflation for the past 30 years, so don't give my cry baby stories. By the way, the Liberal Trudeau Sr. was in power during the period of greatest inflation and highest interest rates, significant higher than Mulroney, and only managed to be in the #3 spot concerning deficits.

Face it, Conservatives talk a good story, but they are fiscally incompetent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 01, 2018, 02:19:13 pm
So it seems the meeting is back on for June 12. Of course that still allows ~10 days for some other tweet skirmish to arise. I would in a way like to be in Pyongyang just now to hear and see how that info is being rolled out to the people.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 01, 2018, 03:07:39 pm
So Trump says to reporters at one point "Oh it was a lovely letter, boy would you like to know what was in that letter" A few minutes later he then says "I haven't seen the letter, I didn't read the letter yet". Duh, could you make up my mind Mr. President?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 01, 2018, 03:30:57 pm
Harper, the second worst of Conservative governments concerning deficits (Mulroney has #1 spot) had the lowest interest rates ever and fairly average inflation for the past 30 years, so don't give my cry baby stories. By the way, the Liberal Trudeau Sr. was in power during the period of greatest inflation and highest interest rates, significant higher than Mulroney, and only managed to be in the #3 spot concerning deficits.

I'm sorry you don't understand how interest rates and compounding work. Perhaps that is why you are so completely lost in trying to figure out economic and budgeting issues. Pierre Trudeau doubled spending in his first term. Then he doubled it again in his second term. This begat the debt. Then we got tremendous inflation. Since he was running enormous deficits each year, he had to borrow at exorbitant rates, and the debt mounted quickly. Then Mulroney took over - being handed the steaming load of **** which was Trudeau's forty billion dollar deficit (at a time of much smaller budgets). With high inflation and high unemployment, his ability to immediately end deficits was... non-existent. He gradually cut program spending over the years, but was still forced to borrow forty billion or so a year under high interest rates until the recession began to abate. If he hadn't had to pay almost that much in interest charges on Trudeau's debt every year he wouldn't have run up much new debt at all.

As to Harper, he did what you wanted him to do. Now you're doing the "What me? Nooo!" routine, as if every leftist party hadn't been screaming for heavy economic incentive spending.

That you refuse to pay ANY attention to the facts of the time simply indicates that you aren't honestly assessing their performance but simply want to blindly demonize conservatives while excusing Liberals. Which is what party hacks tend to do.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 01, 2018, 03:40:20 pm
Harper, the second worst of Conservative governments concerning deficits (Mulroney has #1 spot) had the lowest interest rates ever and fairly average inflation for the past 30 years, so don't give my cry baby stories. By the way, the Liberal Trudeau Sr. was in power during the period of greatest inflation and highest interest rates, significant higher than Mulroney, and only managed to be in the #3 spot concerning deficits.

Face it, Conservatives talk a good story, but they are fiscally incompetent.

http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/canada-cant-kick-its-stimulus-habit-as-trump-fuels-trade-risks
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 01, 2018, 03:44:29 pm
I'm sorry you don't understand how interest rates and compounding work. Perhaps that is why you are so completely lost in trying to figure out economic and budgeting issues. Pierre Trudeau doubled spending in his first term. Then he doubled it again in his second term. This begat the debt. Then we got tremendous inflation. Since he was running enormous deficits each year, he had to borrow at exorbitant rates, and the debt mounted quickly. Then Mulroney took over - being handed the steaming load of **** which was Trudeau's forty billion dollar deficit (at a time of much smaller budgets). With high inflation and high unemployment, his ability to immediately end deficits was... non-existent. He gradually cut program spending over the years, but was still forced to borrow forty billion or so a year under high interest rates until the recession began to abate. If he hadn't had to pay almost that much in interest charges on Trudeau's debt every year he wouldn't have run up much new debt at all.

As to Harper, he did what you wanted him to do. Now you're doing the "What me? Nooo!" routine, as if every leftist party hadn't been screaming for heavy economic incentive spending.

That you refuse to pay ANY attention to the facts of the time simply indicates that you aren't honestly assessing their performance but simply want to blindly demonize conservatives while excusing Liberals. Which is what party hacks tend to do.

And what Trudeau added to the public debt in 20 years only took Mulroney 9 years to equal.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 01, 2018, 03:47:58 pm
Quote
Under Trudeau the debt grew tenfold, while federal spending ballooned from $13 billion to $109 billion. His 1984 deficit, measured as a percentage of gross domestic product, would equal $133 billion in current terms.


National Post.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on June 01, 2018, 03:58:41 pm
I'm sorry you don't understand how interest rates and compounding work.

I sorry but you don't know how to accept reality. The spending increase occurred largely because of the massive inflation the world economies had during the 70s. You seem to want to magic away all the Conservative fiscal blunders. I don't ignore the many mistakes Trudeau Sr. did, but put things into proper perspective.

#1 worst fiscal government in Canadian post WW2 history - Mulroney
#2 worst fiscal government in Canadian post WW2 history - Harper
#3 worst fiscal government in Canadian post WW2 history - Trudeau Sr.

The problem with Conservatives is they create massive deficits by lowering taxes to benefit the wealthy, and Liberals tend to increase spending to benefit the masses. A reasonable compromise needs to be made, but at least understand the problems. Don't vote for the incompetent Doug Ford, because he will be worse than all of them put together and his deficits will be falling on 14 million Ontario taxpayers instead of 20+ million Canadians taxpayers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 01, 2018, 04:06:37 pm
Lowering taxes and government spending are both ways of stimulating the economy. One looks to the private sector to provide growth, the other to government.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 01, 2018, 04:13:39 pm
So Kim gets what he wanted, to stand on the world stage next to the POTUS. I wonder what Trump will get in return. I think he's being played.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 01, 2018, 05:23:48 pm
There's no indication of just where they bloody well are so how do you know what is happening to them? More ineptitude in the Trump administration.

We don't know, but they aren't "missing".  Nobody has done anything except give the households a phone call, as far as I know.  I think someone from the gov should go to the house to check on them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 01, 2018, 05:33:14 pm
If you bone up a bit on actual economic records of the major parties you'll find out that your debt was increased the most under the guidance of the PC's.

In Ontario (which is where we're talking about), the NDP and Liberals well surpass the PC's in debt increases/deficit spending.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_government_debt

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 01, 2018, 09:22:24 pm
I wonder if Kim is having a bit of a giggle tonight looking at Trump displaying this letter he sent that is quite "bigly"


http://thehill.com/sites/default/files/styles/thumb_small_article/public/trumpkimletter_060118wh.jpg?itok=x-kzkU9A
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 02, 2018, 09:17:18 am
If you google that 'unwavering support' quote you'll find it came in 2016, before Trump was elected. Which is probably why he didn't include any kind of link or citation.

Still stupid. I'd long soured on Trump by then, but not as stupid as saying it today.
And when asked this week if he "still supports" Trump, referring back to when he said his support was "unwavering," he confirmed that he still does despite the tariffs. So while you want to pretend that there's no connection, the question posed to him was about whether he STILL feels that way and he confirmed that he does.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 02, 2018, 11:45:34 am
So Kim gets what he wanted, to stand on the world stage next to the POTUS. I wonder what Trump will get in return.

Trump gets to stand next to the only world leader who makes him look fit and athletic by comparison.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 02, 2018, 11:55:01 am
Trump gets to stand next to the only world leader who makes him look fit and athletic by comparison.

 -k

I wondered if that might be his strategy. He'll need that if he decides to stumble through the G-7 summit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 02, 2018, 02:34:30 pm
And what Trudeau added to the public debt in 20 years only took Mulroney 9 years to equal.

Trudeau wasn't in power fro 20 years. And when you START with a huge debt which is acculating lots of interest during double digit inflation  and $40 billion deficit as Mulroney did, the amount goes up rather quickly as opposed to Trudeau, who started with nearly no debt and nearly no deficit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 02, 2018, 02:36:49 pm
I sorry but you don't know how to accept reality. The spending increase occurred largely because of the massive inflation the world economies had during the 70s.

Yeah, that's total bullshit. Inflation was low during Trudeau's first term of office. It certainly didn't force him to double spending. Nor did inflation cause him to double spending in his second term. You're simply making excuses.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 02, 2018, 02:38:03 pm
And when asked this week if he "still supports" Trump, referring back to when he said his support was "unwavering," he confirmed that he still does despite the tariffs.

Funny you didn't accompany this with a citation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 02, 2018, 03:12:05 pm
Yeah, that's total bullshit. Inflation was low during Trudeau's first term of office. It certainly didn't force him to double spending. Nor did inflation cause him to double spending in his second term. You're simply making excuses.

Speaking of bullshit, actually inflation was quite high during the 70's and of course you will recall his first term was 68-79.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on June 02, 2018, 05:57:15 pm
In Ontario (which is where we're talking about)

I am confused, must be the thread title
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 04, 2018, 11:57:33 am
So I'm sure by now we've all heard of Giuliani's statement that Trump could shoot Comey and not be indicted for it. What is the purpose of such outrageous statements I wonder? Is this simply a fun way to keep the pot boiling, or does Trump actually think he could get away with murder, literally? Maybe Trump should try and shoot Comey-he'd probably get mixed up and end up shooting himself and the US could look around for a sensible man to put in the WH.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 04, 2018, 02:27:31 pm
Great headline in a NYTimes op-ed:   Trump Thinks He is a King
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 04, 2018, 02:33:32 pm
Simply worth repeating due to its awful truth.

This is a point that bears repeating. The sheer enormity of Trump, the impossible combination of every conceivable malignant quality in one man — comprehensive ignorance, pathological dishonesty, thoroughgoing corruption, and a seeming determination to use his time in office to cause as much damage in as many ways as he possibly can — is a constant invitation to denial. The mind does not want to believe what the eyes and ears are telling it, that an emotionally disturbed man-child has control of the White House. But it’s true. The nightmare is real.
- Andrew Coyne

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 04, 2018, 02:41:09 pm
Trump has probably never heard of the Magna Carta much less ever read it. But seriously his blather is edging beyond stupid to scary. One strategy that was suggested that supposedly was suggested to Trump is that he could step down as president for a day whereupon Pence would become POTUS, would therefore have the power to pardon Trump, who would return to work the next day. Ya vull Herr Comandant.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 04, 2018, 02:48:15 pm
Simply worth repeating due to its awful truth.

This is a point that bears repeating. The sheer enormity of Trump, the impossible combination of every conceivable malignant quality in one man — comprehensive ignorance, pathological dishonesty, thoroughgoing corruption, and a seeming determination to use his time in office to cause as much damage in as many ways as he possibly can — is a constant invitation to denial. The mind does not want to believe what the eyes and ears are telling it, that an emotionally disturbed man-child has control of the White House. But it’s true. The nightmare is real.
- Andrew Coyne


While that is disturbing, what I find even more disturbing is that he has supporters in the other houses of US government to do what he’s doing.

How many batshit crazy people like Trump got elected?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 04, 2018, 02:52:57 pm
Or got hired like Giuliani.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 04, 2018, 02:53:15 pm
Batshit is in down south.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 04, 2018, 03:13:10 pm
I suspect things may get interesting when Mueller concludes his investigation and the results are made public.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 04, 2018, 08:01:42 pm
So here goes Trump again, he disinvites the Philadelphea Eagles from the WH ceremony because some of them took a knee during the national anthem. So, I guess the conclusion is that Trump's parfticular version of patriotism trumps the first amendment rights. "Kick the sons o **** off the field"...most of them are Black anyways right Donny?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 05, 2018, 12:57:06 am
Rudolph Giuliani was going around talking about how Trump could pardon himself, if he felt like it.  Rudy is completely wrong, as a 1974 court case ruled exactly the opposite.   More concerning is this notion that El Presidente Trumpo is above the law.  The US Constitution was designed expressly to prevent self-styled monarchs or tin-pot dictators from being above the law.  That whole "tea party" business and everything that followed was a result of people being thoroughly fed up with monarchs and dictators who fancied themselves above the law.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 05, 2018, 07:52:09 am
This is all about the genie being out of the bottle and establishment folks chasing each other through the smoke to get it in.

Rudy is an idiot.  He could have said simply 'the president's powers are absolute and require impeachment before prosecution'.  Instead he made an aggressive statement about Trump shooting somebody, which made it sound work.  An idiot.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 05, 2018, 08:15:09 am
"The president's powers are absolute"

ehhh....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 05, 2018, 08:16:32 am
"The president's powers are absolute"

ehhh....

Or something.  The fact is that their position is that the president is king.  There are better ways to say it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 05, 2018, 09:17:41 am
Or something.  The fact is that their position is that the president is king.  There are better ways to say it.
America is a Republic. Its system is in direct opposition to the absolute power of monarchs. It was designed so that the branches of government balance each others' powers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 05, 2018, 09:19:40 am
America is a Republic. Its system is in direct opposition to the absolute power of monarchs. It was designed so that the branches of government balance each others' powers.

Wait.  Are you saying Trump and Rudy are WRONG ?!?!?  :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 05, 2018, 09:26:44 am
I think the Trumpets would bin the whole constitution as long as they could keep the 2nd amendment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 05, 2018, 09:39:05 am
They really made Sarah H Sanders look like a chump.  She should quit NOW.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 05, 2018, 11:31:03 am
So here goes Trump again, he disinvites the Philadelphea Eagles from the WH ceremony because some of them took a knee during the national anthem. So, I guess the conclusion is that Trump's parfticular version of patriotism trumps the first amendment rights. "Kick the sons o **** off the field"...most of them are Black anyways right Donny?

Actually, from what I've read, none of them took a knee during the anthem playing during the entire year. But the Eagles left it up to the players who wanted to go and only 10 committed to doing so. That would have been something of an embarrassment so the WH cancelled it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 05, 2018, 11:47:23 am
Actually, from what I've read, none of them took a knee during the anthem playing during the entire year. But the Eagles left it up to the players who wanted to go and only 10 committed to doing so. That would have been something of an embarrassment so the WH cancelled it.

Yes that's what they say now, that only a few of the Eagles shook fists during the anthem but didn't kneel. Trump figures staying in the locker room during the anthem is equally disrespectful, including to the troops, so the feud seems far from over.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 05, 2018, 01:14:10 pm
And FOX, Faux news **** up again in their support of their buddy Trump by publishing a picture of the Eagles kneeling, trying to say it was during the anthem, when in fact it was during a prayer. Faux has since apologized but I'll bet it wasn't a mistake but rather an attempt to appeal to Trump's base who seem to easily led by the nose.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 05, 2018, 02:39:32 pm
Nothing demonstrates the raw hypocrisy and dishonesty of FOX news better than their bizarrely contradictory coverage of Trump's plan to meet with North Korea vs their reaction when Barrack Obama said he would be willing to meet with North Korea. Warning, may cause you to gag.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB0ftYjOuLM
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 05, 2018, 02:43:10 pm
Holy crow that makes FOX look bad...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on June 05, 2018, 02:52:40 pm
Nothing demonstrates the raw hypocrisy and dishonesty of

... you should do the same comparison of Brian Lilly on the current Ontario Election
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 05, 2018, 03:03:14 pm
Holy crow that makes FOX look bad...
You see the same partisan hypocrisy in almost media outlet. Compare CBC coverage of Harper to Trudeau. You will see the same nonsense.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 05, 2018, 03:17:22 pm
You see the same partisan hypocrisy in almost media outlet. Compare CBC coverage of Harper to Trudeau. You will see the same nonsense.

No you won't. CBC you might think is left leaning but they do invite those with various opinions to discuss the issues, and they actually let them speak, as opposed to simply screaming over each other. And show me where there is a similar session of nonsensical bullshit on CBC that would come even close to Hannity.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 05, 2018, 03:23:05 pm
You see the same partisan hypocrisy in almost media outlet. Compare CBC coverage of Harper to Trudeau. You will see the same nonsense.

Ahhhh... sure...

But no.  Not like that.  It's a specific one-issue question being spun 180 degrees.  The CBC has their sins but I would be surprised if it was something so clear as this.  Usually it's about two *similar* situations that are equated, with excuses by one side why they are different.

Prove me wrong.  I would like to be.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 05, 2018, 03:49:57 pm
I hope (in a way) that Sarah Sanders doesn't get added to Trump's "bigly" list of WH firee's because I'm sure if you put all of her credibility in your pocket you'd still need to find a quarter to make a phone call. How many times has she been caught lying now?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 05, 2018, 04:17:24 pm
The CBC has their sins but I would be surprised if it was something so clear as this.  Usually it's about two *similar* situations that are equated, with excuses by one side why they are different.
Except the FOX video montage leaves out the context and makes it look like the two different situations are the same. The omitted context in this case is where Trump used his various bully/name calling tactics to cow the NK leader into talking. You can argue about the significant of the difference but the difference does exist. Any example of biased coverage from CBC that I could provide would have differences of the same order of magnitude so I don't see how you could say the FOX example are particularly unique.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on June 05, 2018, 04:19:52 pm
Iyou'd still need to find a quarter to make a phone call

You realize that pay phones have been 50¢ for many years.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 05, 2018, 04:21:59 pm
Except the FOX video montage leaves out the context and makes it look like the two different situations are the same. The omitted context in this case is where Trump used his various bully/name calling tactics to cow the NK leader into talking. You can argue about the significant of the difference but the difference does exist. Any example of biased coverage from CBC that I could provide would have differences of the same order of magnitude so I don't see how you could say the FOX example are particularly unique.

I have a feeling you are probably a Faux news fan.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 05, 2018, 04:23:27 pm
You realize that pay phones have been 50¢ for many years.

I didn't know if we even had them anymore.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 05, 2018, 05:15:39 pm
Except the FOX video montage leaves out the context and makes it look like the two different situations are the same. The omitted context in this case is where Trump used his various bully/name calling tactics to cow the NK leader into talking. You can argue about the significant of the difference but the difference does exist. Any example of biased coverage from CBC that I could provide would have differences of the same order of magnitude so I don't see how you could say the FOX example are particularly unique.

You may have noticed that Trump and his cronies never veer far from Fox news when it comes to TV interviews. They know they won't have to answer anything too challenging, such as to their seemingly endless stream of lies, but of course we know that Roger Ailles has has formally admitted his channel is "for entertainment purposes only".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 06, 2018, 10:29:26 am
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/paul-ryan-breaks-with-trump-says-spygate-claim-is-bogus-fbi-did-exactly-what-it-was-supposed-to/

Paul Ryan says Spygate is bogus.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/06/06/house-speaker-paul-ryan-says-donald-trump-should-not-pardon-himself/676659002/

Says Trump "shouldn't" pardon himself

Quote
“He shouldn’t, and no one is above the law,” the GOP leader said

Will Trump go after Ryan ?  Will this cause more GOP folks to speak up against this circus ? 

*Will ANY of this help avoiding the massive constitutional crisis that awaits the USA ?*
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on June 06, 2018, 10:35:43 am
It is a pretty sad day when Ryan doesn't support a Republican.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 06, 2018, 10:38:05 am
It is a pretty sad day when Ryan doesn't support a Republican.

Trump + FOX is infecting the Republican party, there is no doubt.  Let's see how both parties weather the fringe populist challenge, I guess.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 06, 2018, 11:35:02 am
Now Trump seems to have figured out how his pardon authority works and he is cozying right up to it. Pretty soon he'll be handing them out like lollipops at a child's birthday party.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 06, 2018, 12:07:46 pm
And now Trump thinks Canadians burned down the white house back in the war of 1812. I guess that's why he considers us a "security threat" in order to justify his tariffs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 06, 2018, 12:35:42 pm
Things are kinda topsy turvy when you consider that Trump will in all likelihood receive a warmer welcome at his meeting in Singapore with the leader of North Korea than he will in La Malbaie Quebec at the G7 meeting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 06, 2018, 02:37:54 pm
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/paul-ryan-breaks-with-trump-says-spygate-claim-is-bogus-fbi-did-exactly-what-it-was-supposed-to/

Paul Ryan says Spygate is bogus.


Amazing how brave Republican politicians get after announcing their retirement.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 06, 2018, 02:53:34 pm
Amazing how brave Republican politicians get after announcing their retirement.

Being lying dirtbags that pander to the worst of society was what got them elected...   now they don’t need to do that anymore.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 06, 2018, 04:08:12 pm
And the plot thickens, or is it sickens! Just heard that Dennis Rodman may accompany Trump to Singapore to meet with "Fat Kim". What comes to mind with this is a vision of the 3 stooges going multi cultural.  :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on June 06, 2018, 04:27:07 pm
Maybe Rudy should tag along as well.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 06, 2018, 08:07:30 pm
Maybe Rudy should tag along as well.

I'm sure legal council might be a good idea. So if we could only find a fit lawyer to tag along.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 06, 2018, 08:11:59 pm
And on the topic of Trump lawyers, I wonder why Scott Pruitt wants to purchase a used mattress from a Trump hotel. Does he have a similar sicko approach to sex as his boss does who hires hookers and pays them to **** on him? Yuk!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 06, 2018, 08:23:36 pm
Just watched Cuomo interview Sarah Sanders on CNN. He was actually pretty gentle with her I thought but he still pinged her around like a stupid duck in a shooting gallery. I could almost see Trump's finger reaching out to pull the string on the back of her Chatty Cathy neck.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 07, 2018, 06:32:35 am
Just watched Cuomo interview Sarah Sanders on CNN. He was actually pretty gentle with her I thought but he still pinged her around like a stupid duck in a shooting gallery. I could almost see Trump's finger reaching out to pull the string on the back of her Chatty Cathy neck.

I saw that too.  She is in some kind of legal bind and instructed to say nothing.

Doesn't matter, though.  It's coming clear now that Trump will pardon all of his buddies which will make it difficult for Mueller to flip people. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 07, 2018, 07:06:25 am
That's why he's working with the State of New York. Trump can't pardon it if it isn't federal.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 07, 2018, 09:01:44 am
finally... Canada is called out for it's most egregious 1814 act in "burnin' down the (White) house"!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on June 07, 2018, 09:07:36 am
finally... Canada is called out for it's most egregious 1814 act in "burnin' down the (White) house"!

He can use that same line on Theresa May as well.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 07, 2018, 09:28:17 am
That's why he's working with the State of New York. Trump can't pardon it if it isn't federal.

?

Really ?  That makes sense, but do you have a basis for this assessment ?  I would love it to be true of course.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 07, 2018, 09:39:46 am
?

Really ?  That makes sense, but do you have a basis for this assessment ?  I would love it to be true of course.

I don't have a cite, but I have read it several times.  The beauty of it is that since many of these crimes were committed in New York, it makes perfect sense for the New York State prosecutors to be involved.  I believe that the investigations into money laundering and financial crimes have been carried out with the assistance of New York State prosecutors.


Also, pardons are a last resort in any case... El Trumpo pardoning his criminal buddies left and right is a terrible look that would make for devastating campaign ads in future elections. 

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 07, 2018, 09:50:35 am
I don't have a cite, but I have read it several times.  The beauty of it is that since many of these crimes were committed in New York, it makes perfect sense for the New York State prosecutors to be involved.  I believe that the investigations into money laundering and financial crimes have been carried out with the assistance of New York State prosecutors.


Also, pardons are a last resort in any case... El Trumpo pardoning his criminal buddies left and right is a terrible look that would make for devastating campaign ads in future elections. 

 -k

He is trying to change public opinion on that though.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 07, 2018, 09:53:53 am
http://observer.com/2018/06/new-york-trump-pardon-double-jeopardy-loophole/

LOOPHOLE !  :o
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 07, 2018, 10:18:48 am
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1004743621587894272

Quote
The Obama Administration is now accused of trying to give Iran secret access to the financial system of the United States. This is totally illegal.

What NOW ???
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 07, 2018, 11:34:50 am
I couldn't find a source for that.

Found one.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 07, 2018, 11:50:32 am
Just listened to Trump being questioned by reporters as to what preparations he has made with regard to the upcoming meeting in Singapore with Kim. He replied that he didn't really see the need for a lot of preparation, "we'll see what happens". Makes me think I should have gone to Trump College. I'm sure I could have got my degree from there without having to do any homework. Just go everyday and see what happens.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 07, 2018, 01:06:36 pm
Rudy now shows he may be even a dumber **** than his boss. Close to the eve of the scheduled meeting with Kim he states that when Trump announced (tweeted) he was cancelling the meeting, that Kim got on his hands and knees and begged Trump to re-schedule the meeting. Even if that were true, and who can believe a buffoon like Giuliani, it would be pretty stupid to blabber about it on TV. I'm no fan of Kim's by any means but I could see him sticking his middle finger in the air and there goes the meeting. I wonder if Trump will have a word with Mr. Giuliani?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 07, 2018, 08:29:14 pm
Trump apparently is considering firing Sessions and replacing him with a whack job Fox news host by the name of Jeanine Pirro. She's a crazy ****. Should fit in well.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 08, 2018, 07:54:18 am
Trump apparently is considering firing Sessions and replacing him with a whack job Fox news host by the name of Jeanine Pirro. She's a crazy ****. Should fit in well.

That could be what finally tells the GOP to stop him. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 08, 2018, 09:42:37 am
Make a TV personality the next AG?  Of course.  Trump only respects people he's seen on TV.  I'm surprised he isn't going after Judge Wopner or Judge Judy.

(https://i.imgur.com/6vi4VPd.jpg)

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 08, 2018, 11:32:19 am
That could be what finally tells the GOP to stop him.

Or maybe it's just a smoke screen to divert attention from the other smoke flying from his pen as he signs off on pardons. He was even going to sign one for Mohammad Ali even though his conviction was long ago turned over.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on June 08, 2018, 02:21:12 pm
I understand the reason he is flying to Singapore early, even though he said he will just wing it, is because he wants to duck out of the climate change session.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on June 08, 2018, 03:28:48 pm
That could be what finally tells the GOP to stop him.

I don't think so. He's gone this long. He's alienated all the US allies. He's basically told 30 US governors highly inter-connected with Canada on free trade to phack themselves. Clearly he does what he wants with no consequences and the GOP is fractured and fearful of turning on him with elections coming up for Republicans.

Hell if I did not know any better I would say Putin has him by his petunias with dirty photos of him being spanked by KGB prostitutes and so he is deliberately causing turmoil with NATO allies and fracturing NATO while Putin sits back and laughs at his puppet doing his dirty work.

Did you see how Putin had the nerve to say the US tarrifs on Canadian aluminum and steel were sanctions, blah, blah, blah, like Putin cares about our economy? Putin, someone whose very existence is dictated by Russian mob economic interests? Putin care about free markets? Good God.

Trump is nuts and I am afraid no one will stop him. I also think he is going to be relected.

The only thing that stops Trump and I say it without wanting it to happen,is an  assassination which God help us happens and triggers a war.,
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 08, 2018, 03:38:34 pm
I don't think so. He's gone this long. He's alienated all the US allies. He's basically told 30 US governors highly inter-connected with Canada on free trade to phack themselves. Clearly he does what he wants with no consequences and the GOP is fractured and fearful of turning on him with elections coming up for Republicans.

Hell if I did not know any better I would say Putin has him by his petunias with dirty photos of him being spanked by KGB prostitutes and so he is deliberately causing turmoil with NATO allies and fracturing NATO while Putin sits back and laughs at his puppet doing his dirty work.

Did you see how Putin had the nerve to say the US tarrifs on Canadian aluminum and steel were sanctions, blah, blah, blah, like Putin cares about our economy? Putin, someone whose very existence is dictated by Russian mob economic interests? Putin care about free markets? Good God.

Trump is nuts and I am afraid no one will stop him. I also think he is going to be relected.

The only thing that stops Trump and I say it without wanting it to happen,is an  assassination which God help us happens and triggers a war.,

What may well stop him is the midterms in November. The "blue wave" could well take away GOP power in congress. And of course there is no shortage of impeachment material.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 08, 2018, 04:05:06 pm


1) Trump is nuts and I am afraid no one will stop him. I also think he is going to be relected.

2) The only thing that stops Trump and I say it without wanting it to happen,is an  assassination which God help us happens and triggers a war.,
1) They can still mobilize the house and senate against him if they wan t to.
2) War ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 08, 2018, 04:31:04 pm
I assume Trump is waiting to issue a pardon for Paul Manafort until the complete litany of indictments against him are tabled. Yet another one today.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 08, 2018, 06:24:57 pm
What may well stop him is the midterms in November. The "blue wave" could well take away GOP power in congress. And of course there is no shortage of impeachment material.

Don't look now, but the blue waves is fading away in the face of those wonderful (temporary) tax cuts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 08, 2018, 07:15:41 pm
Don't look now, but the blue waves is fading away in the face of those wonderful (temporary) tax cuts.

November is a ways away, especially with respect to "Trump Days". He seems to tell a lie or make a further stupid tweet comment before the sun even comes up. His right wing knuckle dragger base couldn't give a **** if he got caught F...ing a goat it seems but I suspect clearer minded people note his stupidity. What was it today, he was going to grant Mohammed Ali a pardon but it seems was unaware the SC overturned that conviction decades ago. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 09, 2018, 01:08:32 pm
Let's bring Russia to the G7!  No puppet, no puppet, you're the puppet.

Also, it's totally Barack Obama's fault that Russia annexed Crimea.  Not Putin's. Not Russia's.  Obama's.  Why punish Russia for something that's Obama's fault?



Yep.  The idiocy on display is utterly mind-numbing.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 09, 2018, 06:41:56 pm
Today was mind-crushing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 09, 2018, 08:12:34 pm
Now Trump is reneging on the G7 communique because he didn't like JT's comments on NAFTA. He's slowing down, it took a whole day.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 09, 2018, 08:32:27 pm
Now Trump is reneging on the G7 communique because he didn't like JT's comments on NAFTA. He's slowing down, it took a whole day.
What is so bizarre is Trump seems to be unable to understand that Canada has no incentive to make concessions for a deal that expires in 5 years. Calling Trump an imbecile is an insult to imbeciles.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 10, 2018, 01:36:41 pm
During the Harper days, some Canadian lefties were thrilled at the idea that Barack Obama would "teach Harper a lesson".  That never happened... both of them were professional enough to maintain a constructive relationship.

From the time Trump was elected, some of Canada's right have been similarly fantasizing that Trump would come smack "the shiny pony" down.  I imagine those people-- Pastor McFuckface from the old board, I'm sure-- are absolutely moist at this weekend's turn of events.


I doubt anybody on the Trump team knew beforehand that he was going to advocate for Russia to be brought back into the G7.

And I am sure that everything else he did this weekend was from his sophomoric bag of business-guy negotiating tactics.  I also suspect some of it was to make himself look like a big man in advance of his meeting with Li'l Kim.


For now, I think the thing to do is cooperate with the rest of the G7 countries, as well as Mexico, and take coordinated action targeted at industries in US swing-states that have a high chance of turning against Trump if his antics backfire.

I also think that they should work with other countries to find ways to target Trump Organization businesses directly.  And if any evidence of money-laundering or other criminal behavior turned up during that process, that would be interesting as well.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 10, 2018, 02:29:37 pm
Update:  so now he's threatening to stop US trade with everybody. "It's a very profitable answer," he says.

I am sure that Fox News is working overtime to come up with graphics to explain to their audience of senile idiots and dumb-ass hillbillies that this is actually a very smart idea.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 10, 2018, 02:46:34 pm
Libruhl tears!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 10, 2018, 03:12:29 pm
JT has been doing pretty good dealing with Trumpster.  The thing is Trump makes threats and often follows through with them.  He makes bold promises and often follows through with them.  Sometime he just says dumb **** to threaten, but Trump is bold enough and cocky enough to not back down on the trade war, plus he has the might of the American economy on his side.

I think our best bet is to stall until his 4 years are up and hope he gets booted next election.  Whatever deal we end up with in the new NAFTA it's going to be worse for us than the last one, whatever it is.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 10, 2018, 03:51:38 pm
What is so bizarre is Trump seems to be unable to understand that Canada has no incentive to make concessions for a deal that expires in 5 years. Calling Trump an imbecile is an insult to imbeciles.

Trump neither knows nor cares about anything related to trade or economics or business. Everything he does has only one goal and that is to make himself look and feel  good, which to him means to make him look big and tough and successful and dominant. What harm that does to anyone else, including his own country, is irrelevant.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 10, 2018, 05:36:25 pm
The Washington Post was scathing about Trump’s idiotic performance at the G7.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2018/06/10/the-fallout-from-trumps-international-temper-tantrum/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.fb24528729fc

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 10, 2018, 06:30:56 pm
I agree with these posts.  Trudeau has to hold his own and get help - from the G7, from US governors, from business leaders and sane Republicans.  We may have to get a new deal and it may be worse for us...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 10, 2018, 07:23:28 pm
I think I see the what was going on Trump's head. In private conversations he thought he made all kinds of conciliatory gestures because he wanted to be be seen as a "deal maker" before the Kim meeting and he wanted to Trudeau to play along (which is Trump's mind means Canada had to act like it had "compromised" on Trump's demands). I suspect that 1) Trump is too egotistical to realize that such an agreement was never actually secured and 2) Trudeau realized that pretending to "compromise" on things like counter tariffs or the sunset clause would blow up in his face domestically (i.e. the outcry would be so bad that he would be forced to say there was no compromise within 24 hours which would negate any goodwill he hoped to get from Trump). An impossible situation for any politician.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 10, 2018, 07:52:03 pm
So what's next ?  Just enrage him until he's discredited everywhere ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 10, 2018, 08:14:35 pm
So what's next ?  Just enrage him until he's discredited everywhere ?

He already is. His antics are getting old.

Rob Ford is no longer a fan.

As one EU diplomat said. Aren't we getting used to it? The dog barks, the caravan moves on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 11, 2018, 12:03:29 am
If it was me, I think I'd summon the US ambassador to my office Monday morning and demand an explanation.  Then I'd yell at her for an hour, just to blow off steam.

Then I'd be on the horn with Shinzo Abe and Angela Merkel and Theresa May and Macron but probably not the chump from Italy, and get to work planning a strategic, unified approach to economic retaliation and mitigating economic damage to the rest of the G7.

Then I'd have my people contact relevant members of Congress and inform them that key industries in their states were on the list of targets for retaliatory action and suggest that if they don't want their constituents to get caught in the crossfire they should urge their friends in Congress to talk some sense into the administration.

And I'd award the block that Trump Tower Vancouver is built on to a local Indian tribe as a land claim resolution.  They could turn it into a giant casino. It'd be hilarious.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 11, 2018, 12:12:34 am
I think I see the what was going on Trump's head. In private conversations he thought he made all kinds of conciliatory gestures because he wanted to be be seen as a "deal maker" before the Kim meeting and he wanted to Trudeau to play along (which is Trump's mind means Canada had to act like it had "compromised" on Trump's demands). I suspect that 1) Trump is too egotistical to realize that such an agreement was never actually secured and 2) Trudeau realized that pretending to "compromise" on things like counter tariffs or the sunset clause would blow up in his face domestically (i.e. the outcry would be so bad that he would be forced to say there was no compromise within 24 hours which would negate any goodwill he hoped to get from Trump). An impossible situation for any politician.
This article (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/06/10/what-led-to-trumps-outburst-against-trudeau-behind-the-scenes-at-the-g7.html) cites Larry Kudlow-- the White House chief economic advisor-- as saying Trump felt like he'd been made to look weak:
Quote
One called Trump’s actions rude, another said the U.S. president had personally insulted the prime minister and he would not engage on that level, adding that Trudeau was mindful of Trump’s concern — stated through Kudlow — that Trump was angry he’d been made to look weak in advance of the North Korea summit.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 11, 2018, 06:24:08 am
Trump does not have the resources to fight Germany, NK, Canada, France, Mexico, and China in a PR war simultaneously.  Unite and conquer... ie. get him to shut up and do NOTHING in return for a promise to not fight him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 11, 2018, 08:31:24 am
Trump does not have the resources to fight Germany, NK, Canada, France, Mexico, and China in a PR war simultaneously.  Unite and conquer... ie. get him to shut up and do NOTHING in return for a promise to not fight him.
****. That. His word means less than nothing. You can't get him to agree to do nothing because he won't abide by it. The United States is no longer a faithful negotiator. They've reneged on their agreements, so you would be a fool to expect they would honour this. The only thing Trump will understand is blunt force.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 11, 2018, 08:54:58 am
****. That. His word means less than nothing. You can't get him to agree to do nothing because he won't abide by it. The United States is no longer a faithful negotiator. They've reneged on their agreements, so you would be a fool to expect they would honour this. The only thing Trump will understand is blunt force.

There is no cutting ties here.  You don't want to escalate with an idiot.  The best case may be to move the conflict - and ceasefire territory - to the realm of rhetoric.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 11, 2018, 10:23:07 am
JT has been doing pretty good dealing with Trumpster.  The thing is Trump makes threats and often follows through with them.  He makes bold promises and often follows through with them.  Sometime he just says dumb **** to threaten, but Trump is bold enough and cocky enough to not back down on the trade war, plus he has the might of the American economy on his side.

I think our best bet is to stall until his 4 years are up and hope he gets booted next election.  Whatever deal we end up with in the new NAFTA it's going to be worse for us than the last one, whatever it is.

Maybe better that there is no NAFTA then, at least while Trump is still around. I have the feeling that Trump insisting on a sunset clause is to induce enough uncertainty in NAFTA that companies will move to the US to avoid it. Why be part of an agreement that induces companies to set up in only one of the countries in the agreement? Canada and Canadian companies really need to get serious about looking elsewhere for trading partners. The relationship with the US can no longer be relied upon.

Build that friggin pipeline so we aren't completely at the mercy of the Yanks for our energy exports.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 11, 2018, 10:28:18 am
Maybe better that there is no NAFTA then, at least while Trump is still around.

How about drug patents go back on the table ?  Pfizer closed their Montreal office and now we are just importers of their garbage. 

Does North Korea honour patents ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 11, 2018, 10:49:01 am
So a day afte3r Trump opines that Russia should be invited back to the G8, Russia imposes sanctions against the country for hacking into undersea data cables. It just keeps getting crazier!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on June 11, 2018, 10:50:42 am
Freeland should immediately impose 270% tariff on all US imported dairy products. We wouldn't want Trump to be called "fake news", so lets make him 100% correct for a change.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 11, 2018, 10:57:52 am
How about drug patents go back on the table ?  Pfizer closed their Montreal office and now we are just importers of their garbage. 

Does North Korea honour patents ?

That's my point, why be part of an agreement that pressures companies to set up in another country, then gives them free access to your country.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 11, 2018, 11:54:12 am
I think I see the what was going on Trump's head. In private conversations he thought he made all kinds of conciliatory gestures because he wanted to be be seen as a "deal maker" before the Kim meeting and he wanted to Trudeau to play along (which is Trump's mind means Canada had to act like it had "compromised" on Trump's demands).

Makes as much sense as anything when dealing with a petulant child like Trump. The only other possible explanation I can come up with is someone or other convinced the Americans Trudeau had agreed to now shut up about trade issues, or at least would shut up until after Trump's summit with little fat boy, and then Trudeau went right out and had an interview with a US network.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 11, 2018, 12:30:37 pm
Makes as much sense as anything when dealing with a petulant child like Trump. The only other possible explanation I can come up with is someone or other convinced the Americans Trudeau had agreed to now shut up about trade issues, or at least would shut up until after Trump's summit with little fat boy, and then Trudeau went right out and had an interview with a US network.

Then Trump shouldn't make statements about the outcome of NAFTA negotiations if he doesn't want people to react. Canada and Mexico have made it clear they will not accept a sunset clause. It was stupid of him say there would be at the G7. Trudeau couldn't really give that a pass.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 11, 2018, 12:51:34 pm
And now this: can you imagine having to follow Trump around the office and pick up the scraps of paper left behind when Donny received a document he didn't like!? Thar former staffer was saving Trump's ass because the law states any such document must be kept on file.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 11, 2018, 09:44:33 pm
Trump does not have the resources to fight Germany, NK, Canada, France, Mexico, and China in a PR war simultaneously. 

Trump has a propaganda network stumping for him 24/7.  Maybe Fox and allied media are enough to deliver Republicans victories in the midterms or maybe they aren't, but a PR war against Trump and his audience isn't a viable strategy because his supporters live inside an impenetrable bubble.

Unite and conquer... ie. get him to shut up and do NOTHING in return for a promise to not fight him.

There is a good chance that grown-ups in the US political system will be able to "manage" the toddler, but to motivate the grown-ups to intervene there has to be real threats on the table. 

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 11, 2018, 10:00:24 pm
Trump has given Justin Trudeau an immense political gift. A few weeks ago Canadians were getting Trudeau fatigue... tired of selfies and ethnic costumes and so on.  Now, Canadians of all stripes have rallied around him like a national champion.   Trump has awakened Canadian nationalism in a manner similar to how 9/11 awakened American nationalism, and Trudeau will be the beneficiary just as G.W. Bush was the beneficiary of post-9/11 American nationalism.

A week ago, I don't think Canadians cared much about negotiating on dairy supply management.  I think it would have been viable to make some concessions to Americans on dairy supply management.  As of right now, that is absolutely impossible.  It's a completely untenable political position.  It would be political suicide for any Canadian political party to propose giving the Americans even a millimeter on dairy-- or anything else-- at this point.  Canadian voters could have contemplated changes to dairy supply management.  Canadian voters will not and should not tolerate any leader who is willing to bend the knee to the ****-mango.

If Trump's goal was to get concessions on the dairy issue, he has irreparably sabotaged that goal with this weekend's activities. He's an incompetent idiot. This is just one more example of how Trump's self-proclaimed reputation as the big-deal guy, the guy that makes the deals, is a bunch of bullshit.

If Trump's goal all along was to scuttle NAFTA, he may well have succeeded.  In which case he's actually a mastermind.

Which theory do you believe? I know where I'd put my money.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 11, 2018, 10:07:34 pm
Maybe this will move Trudeau to pay attention to the economy now....

Speaking of Trump, this summit is a f***cking circus sideshow/shitshow.  It is going to be agonizing listening to all the blowhards tell us what a success it was when nothing zero zilch will come out of it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 11, 2018, 10:11:11 pm
If Trump's goal all along was to scuttle NAFTA, he may well have succeeded.  In which case he's actually a mastermind.
Except NAFTA can't really go unless congress agrees and Trump also succeeded is reminding the normally protectionist democrats that trade is not all bad. The fact that Trump can't unilaterally get rid of NAFTA is why he is pushing so hard for a sunset clause so in the next negotiation he does not have to deal with congress. The dumbest thing that Canada could do now is agree to any deal with Trump. We would be better off letting him fight with congress over NAFTA and then the WTO which is Canada's fallback.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 11, 2018, 10:14:51 pm
Maybe this will move Trudeau to pay attention to the economy now....
We will see if he is willing to back off on his legislation designed to permanently kill off the resource industry though regulatory strangulation. We will need those jobs if manufacturing gets hammered.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on June 11, 2018, 10:32:36 pm
We will see if he is willing to back off on his legislation designed to permanently kill off the resource industry though regulatory strangulation.

Yes, Liberals stay awake at night dreaming up new and wonderful ways to strangulate industry because it gives them the jollies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 12, 2018, 01:45:45 am
Except NAFTA can't really go unless congress agrees and Trump also succeeded is reminding the normally protectionist democrats that trade is not all bad. The fact that Trump can't unilaterally get rid of NAFTA is why he is pushing so hard for a sunset clause so in the next negotiation he does not have to deal with congress. The dumbest thing that Canada could do now is agree to any deal with Trump. We would be better off letting him fight with congress over NAFTA and then the WTO which is Canada's fallback.

Well then.  I guess he really is styooopid.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 12, 2018, 09:24:43 am
So I heard a funny joke just now. It goes like this:

The US Congress is a check and balance to Trump's power.

hahahahahahahaha What a knee-slapper!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 13, 2018, 06:09:18 am
https://twitter.com/AmoneyResists/status/1006740989132918784

Wow.  THIS guy:

Quote
In case it wasn’t already abundantly clear, @realDonaldTrump is compromised by Russia (and possibly China). This is the most anti-American President in United States history. He will go down in history as the most notorious traitor to ever con his way into the Oval Office.

https://twitter.com/AmoneyResists/status/1006644004837044224

And THIS:

Quote
It’s never been clearer that you did not write and have no concept of “The art of the deal.” You gave Kim everything he wanted—legitimacy, reduced sanctions, the end to military exercises in SK—and got nothing but an empty promise and flattery in return. You are fail incarnate.

Let's remember that Trump has torn up the Iran deal, where the US got tangible and verifiable checks on Iran's program, as the "worst deal ever".

....

One problem that Democracies have never dealt with is the fallibility of the people, and the general idea that they may eventually get to a point where they are unable to make a wise choice.  Maybe after all these centuries we are at that point that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 13, 2018, 09:59:59 am
https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-lawyer-michael-cohen-cooperate-attorneys-leave-case/story?id=55861988

Cohen will co-operate ?  If true this could be big.

Quote
Cohen, now with no legal representation, is likely to cooperate with federal prosecutors in New York, sources said. This development, which is believed to be imminent, will likely hit the White House, family members, staffers and counsels hard.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 13, 2018, 10:44:00 am
Well a day or so after Trump's little private chat with Kim he now claims we can all relax that Kim is now no longer a nuclear threat. and as if that wasn't "TrumpDumb" enough, he added that the biggest threat to the US now is the media, or fake news as he likes to call it. I have an image that immediately formed in my mind when I heard that one of Trump tweeting furiously in AF one heading eastbound as the smoke trail from an ICBM sails past his window, also eastbound.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 13, 2018, 01:18:57 pm
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-13/north-korea-says-trump-agreed-to-lift-sanctions-after-meeting

North Korea says Trump pledged to lift sanctions ?  Doesn't seem to align... if not, that took 1 day to unravel. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 13, 2018, 04:36:09 pm
The plot thickens.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 13, 2018, 04:39:23 pm
I just did a little visit back to the old "shyteshow" site; I was interested to see how old buddy USA, USA was dealing with the endless controversy surrounding his old buddy Donald. It took me back to the time as a young guy at summer camp I took the Red Cross rescue course as to how to identify a swimmer in trouble. Old habits die hard as they say.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 14, 2018, 02:44:44 am
For someone who came into office promising to "drain the swamp" Trump seems to be attracting more swamp scum on a regular basis.
Here's yet another.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-world/2018/06/14/brothel-owner-who-won-nevada-primary-shunned-by-gop-brass/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 14, 2018, 12:00:02 pm
Well if the GOP picking all these loons doesn't make it easier for the Democrats in the fall, they might as well put the crown on Trump. Interesting times.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 14, 2018, 12:59:14 pm

Quote
The Donald J. Trump Foundation “has operated in persistent violation of state and federal law governing New York State charities” for more than a decade by, among other things, paying off legal bills with charitable funds, the New York Attorney General’s Office said in a lawsuit it filed Thursday.

The lawsuit accused President Trump -- along with his children Donald Jr., Eric and Ivanka -- of conflating charity with politics, repeated and willful self-dealing and failure to follow basic fiduciary obligations.

Filed in state Supreme Court by the attorney general's Charities Bureau, the suit seeks to dissolve the private New York-based foundation and prevent the Trumps from serving as directors of any nonprofits in the future.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/donald-trump-charity-money-pay-legal-bills-promote/story?id=55892887


Taking money from a charitable foundation for personal and political expenses.   Not exactly shocking....   good that someone is finally doing something about it.  I'm sure it has happened in other states too....   where are the lawsuits from those states?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 14, 2018, 01:14:30 pm
https://abcnews.go.com/US/donald-trump-charity-money-pay-legal-bills-promote/story?id=55892887


Taking money from a charitable foundation for personal and political expenses.   Not exactly shocking....   good that someone is finally doing something about it.  I'm sure it has happened in other states too....   where are the lawsuits from those states?

Perhaps we will see a domino effect. Of course the southern states won't dare. They luvs der Donald down there don't y'all know?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 14, 2018, 03:03:07 pm
I have to stop tuning into the WH press briefing. I think it's bad for my blood pressure. Today Sarah, (I lie through my teeth for the boss) Sanders tried to justify the act of ripping babies from the arms of their mothers who have crossed the border seeking asylum with something she claims came from the bible. You could clearly see the temperature in the briefiong room rising just like my BP. She, like many others in this so called "administration" are performing for an audience of one.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 14, 2018, 08:09:01 pm
I have to stop tuning into the WH press briefing. I think it's bad for my blood pressure. Today Sarah, (I lie through my teeth for the boss) Sanders tried to justify the act of ripping babies from the arms of their mothers who have crossed the border seeking asylum with something she claims came from the bible.

Trump admin is simply enforcing current immigration law.  Currently law is that children can't be held for more than i think 20 days in detention (prison essentially), which is why they split them from the parents, and as far as i know they put the child with another parent or relatives living in the US already if at all possible.  No idea what they do if the child has no family here already.  I think it should be changed to allow the parent/child to choose to either stay together or let the child go with family.

The thing is, is it ethical to have a child in detention for long periods?  Is it more ethical to have them stay with family or to have them stay in detention?  I'd suggest having family-friendly detention facilities.  Then there's issues about schooling.

Maybe detention should be avoided in most cases for the parent too and have them fitted with tracking ankle bracelets. But then the parents can run to sanctuary cities where local govs won't cooperate with federal officials, which sounds illegal to me.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 15, 2018, 10:51:28 am
Well lt's see, so far today Manafort is sent to jail, Comey seems on the verge of flipping on his boss, and the Dow is down ~250 points as Trump launches a trade war with China. Just another day in Trumpland.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 15, 2018, 11:56:52 am
Not to mentipn while Trump stands on the WH lawn Trump-etting the idea of having Russia back in the G*, James Mattis is giving a speech calling out Putin for his anti-democratic ideals and actions. So... the POTUS and the defense secretary are on opposite sides of the fence and apparently don't bother tpo compare notes. Putin must be laughing his dictator ass off.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 15, 2018, 02:07:36 pm
Trump admin is simply enforcing current immigration law.  Currently law is that children can't be held for more than i think 20 days in detention (prison essentially), which is why they split them from the parents, and as far as i know they put the child with another parent or relatives living in the US already if at all possible.  No idea what they do if the child has no family here already.  I think it should be changed to allow the parent/child to choose to either stay together or let the child go with family.

The thing is, is it ethical to have a child in detention for long periods?  Is it more ethical to have them stay with family or to have them stay in detention?  I'd suggest having family-friendly detention facilities.  Then there's issues about schooling.

Maybe detention should be avoided in most cases for the parent too and have them fitted with tracking ankle bracelets. But then the parents can run to sanctuary cities where local govs won't cooperate with federal officials, which sounds illegal to me.

Actually there is no "current immigration law" whioch requires kids to be separated from parents seeking asylum. The current administration chooses to prosecute these people which is what leads to the seperation. Subtle difference you might say.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 17, 2018, 11:06:51 am
I happened to have been watching the WH press briefing the other day when one of the regular reporters, Brian Karem tackled Sarah Sanders with regard to the current practice of separating children from their mothers by pointing out that she is also a mother of young children and how must tghat feel for those mothers. She tried quickly to deflect but he kept on and she really did look like a deer in the headlights. I notice now that a number of the the conservitards at faux news have tried to twist that whole issue into an attempt by the "fake news" outlets to make the Trump government fail. Hannity for one does look like a bit of a lap dog who does talk to his master on a daily basis and I suspect is like the rest of fox who take their lead from their "boss" who likes the fact that Fat Kim's people sit up and eat the pablum whenever he speaks, regardless of how it lacks truth.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 17, 2018, 09:14:15 pm
Trump and his administration remain insistent that it's the Democrats' fault, even though it's not. It's actually the brainchild of Trump's peon Stephen Miller.  (https://www.gq.com/story/stephen-miller-wants-credit-families-border)

Trump could end this with a single phone call if he wanted to, but he won't, because they are actually very pleased with this idea. They like it for two reasons. First off they think it will deter people from attempting to claim asylum. And second because they think they can use this to force Democrats to come negotiate and give concessions on funding for "the Wall" and DACA and so-on.

These people are utterly vile.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 17, 2018, 09:31:43 pm

These people are utterly vile.

 -k

Yes they are. They are using children as a weapon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 17, 2018, 09:57:08 pm
Yes they are. They are using children as a weapon.
A little perspective would helpful here. We are talking about parents who already put their kids in danger by attempting to enter the US illegally if this was not a partisan political issue there would be an automatic investigation into their fitness as parents. This does not justify a policy of automatically separating kids from their parents nor should kids be held in 'detention centers' but these parent are hardly paragons of good parenting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 17, 2018, 10:34:05 pm
A little perspective would helpful here. We are talking about parents who already put their kids in danger by attempting to enter the US illegally if this was not a partisan political issue there would be an automatic investigation into their fitness as parents. This does not justify a policy of automatically separating kids from their parents nor should kids be held in 'detention centers' but these parent are hardly paragons of good parenting.

Obviously you have no perspective here. I get the impression you live not far from mama's basement. Go to San Salvador and see why a mother might try to move to safer ground and then get back to us. You've obviously never travelled. Or if you did you were on a bus full of idiots.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 17, 2018, 10:56:34 pm
A little perspective would helpful here. We are talking about parents who already put their kids in danger by attempting to enter the US illegally if this was not a partisan political issue there would be an automatic investigation into their fitness as parents. This does not justify a policy of automatically separating kids from their parents nor should kids be held in 'detention centers' but these parent are hardly paragons of good parenting.

I realize the US has a big problem with illegal immigrants so I am reluctant to be critical,  but this is wrong. I grew up with some kids who escaped through the Iron Curtain during the Hungarian revolution. Would you question their parent's fitness? Their kids were in a lot more danger.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 17, 2018, 11:11:18 pm
Would you question their parent's fitness? Their kids were in a lot more danger.
1) Immigrants from Mexico are economic migrants. They are looking for jobs - not fleeing persecution. 2) The individual circumstances will vary but parents who paid a coyote for transport or crossed a desert on foot would have put their kids in a lot of danger. To reiterate - automatic removals are wrong but it is not hard to imagine circumstances where the parents took unacceptable risks with their kids so the assumption that removal is always wrong is also unreasonable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 17, 2018, 11:23:18 pm
Pretty judgemental, you don't really know why they are leaving and how dare a parent try and give their kid a better life. This has nothing to do with the parents fitness and you know it. It's simply using the threat of losing their kids to discourage people from crossing the border. Nothing more.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 17, 2018, 11:41:06 pm
Pretty judgemental, you don't really know why they are leaving and how dare a parent try and give their kid a better life.
You don't know either so I guess it is pretty judgmental for you to assume that governments have no obligation to ensure the safety of kids showing up illegally. The real issue is whether the people making the decisions can be trusted to make decisions that are in the best interest of the children and we would probably agree that this is not happening now. But objecting to the way these decisions are made is different from asserting that people breaking the law should never be separated from their children. The latter is not a claim that makes any sense.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 18, 2018, 12:33:53 am
1) Immigrants from Mexico are economic migrants. They are looking for jobs - not fleeing persecution. 2) The individual circumstances will vary but parents who paid a coyote for transport or crossed a desert on foot would have put their kids in a lot of danger. To reiterate - automatic removals are wrong but it is not hard to imagine circumstances where the parents took unacceptable risks with their kids so the assumption that removal is always wrong is also unreasonable.

no - as I understand/interpret the situation relative to the most recent profiled 2000+ children being separated from their mothers/families, the majority of persons presenting themselves at the border are not Mexicans... they originate from countries south of Mexico. Note I said, 'presenting' - these are persons that presume to seek/request asylum; they're not illegally crossing into the U.S.. It appears the U.S. is breaking international law by denying these persons an asylum review/consult. Of course the **** "deal-maker Trump" is attempting to leverage the international & U.S. outrage/concern to force the U.S. Congress to pony-up money for "the wall"!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 18, 2018, 06:21:37 am
A little perspective would helpful here. We are talking about parents who already put their kids in danger by attempting to enter the US illegally if this was not a partisan political issue there would be an automatic investigation into their fitness as parents. This does not justify a policy of automatically separating kids from their parents nor should kids be held in 'detention centers' but these parent are hardly paragons of good parenting.
Refugees are resp9nsible for putting their kids in danger? You're disgusting and should be ashamed of yourself. These people are fleeing situation hey had no hand in creating.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 18, 2018, 06:23:26 am
Whitewashing child concentration camps by blaming the parents. I guess  the Jews had it coming too because they refused to be exiled.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 18, 2018, 07:13:32 am
Refugees are resp9nsible for putting their kids in danger? You're disgusting and should be ashamed of yourself. These people are fleeing situation hey had no hand in creating.
Mexican illegals entering the US are NOT refugees. They are economic migrants. You should be ashamed of yourself for denigrating the experiences of real refugees by suggesting they are no different from economic migrants.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 18, 2018, 07:17:57 am
Note I said, 'presenting' - these are persons that presume to seek/request asylum; they're not illegally crossing into the U.S.
I have not been able to separate the fact from fiction in the media reports. I agree with the distinction between someone showing up at a border crossing an asking for asylum is different from someone hiding in a back of truck trying to sneak in. I am not convinced we are talking exclusively about either group, however, people trying to cross a border without declaring themselves to border guards are illegals and do put their children at risk. Whether that risk is large enough to justify removal of their children would depend on the specific of the case.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 18, 2018, 09:04:41 am
Mexican illegals entering the US are NOT refugees. They are economic migrants. You should be ashamed of yourself for denigrating the experiences of real refugees by suggesting they are no different from economic migrants.

There are many reasons to leave Mexico including gang violence and economic reasons.

Your sweeping and general condemnation of these people as parents is a corrupt defence of a corrupt and disgusting system.

We were planning a trip stateside, and I am asking my wife to boycott and stay home.  These people need to be starved out or it will get worse.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 18, 2018, 09:31:23 am
Your sweeping and general condemnation of these people as parents is a corrupt defence of a corrupt and disgusting system.
Except I  made no such sweeping condemnation (i said "depends on circumstances" multiple times). I am objecting to the sweeping condemnation of the practice and pointing out that it wrong to assume that keeping kids with parents who try to cross the border illegally is always in the best interest of the children.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 18, 2018, 09:37:09 am
Ok, so your mitigating language has exits and caveats that step back from sweeping statements.

But let's be practical for a second:

Do you really expect a system that puts kids in chain-link-fence boxes is taking the care to look at the child's welfare, or has the capacity to ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 18, 2018, 09:39:33 am
We have been spending 3 months in Southern California every winter. Not this year. Our furnace is getting on so I think we will get a new one instead, a Canadian made Napoleon. We have a big South Pacific cruise booked on an American cruise line for our 50th anniversary but will be cancelling that. That's a good 35K in US spending that won't be happening.  Planning a BC road trip instead, doing the full length of Vancouver Island, inside passage to Prince Rupert and a nature cruise of Haida Gwaii, then working our way back home with some time at Whistler. We have been thinking of doing this for a few years and can't think of a better time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 18, 2018, 09:40:41 am
Except I  made no such sweeping condemnation (i said "depends on circumstances" multiple times). I am objecting to the sweeping condemnation of the practice and pointing out that it wrong to assume that keeping kids with parents who try to cross the border illegally is always in the best interest of the children.

Separating families at a time when they have nothing but each other isn't in the best interest of anyone.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 18, 2018, 10:08:14 am
Separating families at a time when they have nothing but each other isn't in the best interest of anyone.
It is in the best interest of the US who needs to send a message to deter would be migrants. But I am not arguing for that best interest. I am arguing for the best interest of the children and that does not automatically mean they should be left with their parents.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 18, 2018, 10:12:26 am
Do you really expect a system that puts kids in chain-link-fence boxes is taking the care to look at the child's welfare, or has the capacity to ?
Of course not. OTOH, the migrants have no right to expect comfortable accommodations paid for by US taxpayers so no matter where they are housed it will likely be inadequate for children. If they don't like they can be asked to be immediately returned to where they came from. As long as people have that option then they are only prisoners by choice.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 18, 2018, 10:18:53 am
It is in the best interest of the US who needs to send a message to deter would be migrants. But I am not arguing for that best interest. I am arguing for the best interest of the children and that does not automatically mean they should be left with their parents.

Do you seriously think the kids interests are being considered here? Do you think there are any social workers involved determining who should be separated and who shouldn't. Please. It has everything to do with sending a message and absolutely nothing to do with those kids welfare.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 18, 2018, 10:31:19 am
Do you seriously think the kids interests are being considered here? Do you think there are any social workers involved determining who should be separated and who shouldn't.
Of course it is not happening. But there is a difference between objecting to the way these assessments are done (or not being done) and claiming that kids should *never* be separated from their parents.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 18, 2018, 10:58:03 am
Of course it is not happening. But there is a difference between objecting to the way these assessments are done (or not being done) and claiming that kids should *never* be separated from their parents.

The current administration readily admits they are ripping families apart solely as a deterrent to seeking asylum across the border. It's simply a form of punishment that, regardless of the validity of the reason that family is fleeing their own country, impacts directly the innocent members of that family.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 18, 2018, 11:19:27 am
And as was just released on CNN news for one, after having gotten into some of those detention centers you see film of young children having to change the diapers of babies they that don't even know because there is not sufficient staff available to do so while **** heads like Saraah Sanders and Jeff Sessions flit around trying to use the Bible as justification for the actions of thier boss while he flits around erroneously trying to blame the Democtats for a law....THAT DOESN'T EVEN EXIST! And we have people on this board who it seems are in support. Even some of Trump's own people are speaking out against this duffus.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 18, 2018, 11:28:29 am
And I just listened to Trump speaking live about immigration and of course he lied through his effing teeth and of course bum boy Pence stood close by and clapped on cue. Of course we know these two idiots are basically joined at the hip, as is demonstrated here:

 https://metro.co.uk/video/bizarre-moment-pence-copies-trump-moves-water-bottle-1703862/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 18, 2018, 11:33:18 am
We have been spending 3 months in Southern California every winter. Not this year. 

I feel that boycotts are a tricky thing.  But if I feel bad about something at a gut level, I know it's gone too far so I am pulling back from visiting there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 18, 2018, 11:44:43 am
If they don't like they can be asked to be immediately returned to where they came from. As long as people have that option then they are only prisoners by choice.
[/quote

So ... that might be something to discuss after we stop them from doing this.  By talking about such options you enable the distraction.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 18, 2018, 12:33:46 pm
So ... that might be something to discuss after we stop them from doing this.  By talking about such options you enable the distraction.
I highly doubt anything we say will impact policy. This discussion is about working out how we think of the issues.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 18, 2018, 12:38:35 pm
I feel that boycotts are a tricky thing.  But if I feel bad about something at a gut level, I know it's gone too far so I am pulling back from visiting there.

It's very sad and completely unnecessary but I'm not spending money in a country that is trying to damage mine and considers me a risk to their national security.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 18, 2018, 02:22:33 pm
Refugees are resp9nsible for putting their kids in danger? You're disgusting and should be ashamed of yourself. These people are fleeing situation hey had no hand in creating.

They are not refugees. They are economic migrants. Many are south/central Americans. They could just as readily settle in Mexico but they want to go north where the money is.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 18, 2018, 02:26:53 pm
Do you really expect a system that puts kids in chain-link-fence boxes is taking the care to look at the child's welfare, or has the capacity to ?

This is clearly unacceptable. But I think of it as a byproduct of a poorly thought-out, poorly planned sudden policy change to arrest and charge anyone entering the country illegally. I honestly doubt that when Sessions came up with it he even gave a thought to how many kids would wind up with both parents in jail, and what to do with them then. Now they're being warehoused while the US border administration scrambles to figure out what the hell to do with them. They don't have the staff or facilities to look after all these small kids, but admitting they screwed up is not in the DNA of this Republican administration.

I suspect they are gong to have to shift the imprisoned parents from federal prisons to some sort of guarded camp where they can stay with their kids.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 18, 2018, 02:27:57 pm
Well the FBI director and the Inspector General are confirming that Trump is once again lying as he claims the Clinton report exonerates him. Stupid tweet storm to follow. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 18, 2018, 02:50:16 pm
They are not refugees. They are economic migrants. Many are south/central Americans. They could just as readily settle in Mexico but they want to go north where the money is.

And many are refugees fleeing the so called Northern Triangle which is one of the most dangerous places in South America. And of course Trump and his conservative followers talk about out of control illegal border crossings when in fact 2017 marked a 46 year low if you look at the actual numbers. Trumpites seem to like to froth at the mouth regardless of facts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 18, 2018, 03:07:44 pm
You're not a refugee claimant if you try to sneak into the country illegally.  You're a refugee claimant if you come to a legal port of entry and claim legal refugee status.

I've tried to research the laws/rules or non-rules being followed behind this whole Trump prosecuting parents/separating children issue. It's nearly impossible because media either doesn't know wtf is legally happening, or they're so biased with their own side on the issue that they just want to smear Trump and don't present all the facts.  Post-truth world!

I've never seen such a propaganda campaign against a POTUS, it's really amazing.  CNN has gone from being a Cable News Network to a Trump News Network.  It's been 23/7 Trump since the 2016 primaries.  The New York Times has become a leftist trash rag.  There's very little objective reporting anymore.  The right then counters their own biased media to provide "balance", so all you're getting is either 1 side or the other and rarely objective news just covering the facts or all sides, it's all spin.  We're getting op-eds disguised as news articles now.  Frightening.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 18, 2018, 03:18:01 pm
You're not a refugee claimant if you try to sneak into the country illegally.  You're a refugee claimant if you come to a legal port of entry and claim legal refugee status.

I've tried to research the laws/rules or non-rules being followed behind this whole Trump prosecuting parents/separating children issue. It's nearly impossible because media either doesn't know wtf is legally happening, or they're so biased with their own side on the issue that they just want to smear Trump and don't present all the facts.  Post-truth world!

I've never seen such a propaganda campaign against a POTUS, it's really amazing.  CNN has gone from being a Cable News Network to a Trump News Network.  It's been 23/7 Trump since the 2016 primaries.  The New York Times has become a leftist trash rag.  There's very little objective reporting anymore.  The right then counters their own biased media to provide "balance", so all you're getting is either 1 side or the other and rarely objective news just covering the facts or all sides, it's all spin.  We're getting op-eds disguised as news articles now.  Frightening.

Pointing out that Trump continues to tell blatant lies such as blaming the Democrats for a law regarding immigrants that doesn't actually exist is in your mind a "biased" approach by the media? Maybe try convincing your buddy to quit telling lies and they might leave him alone.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 18, 2018, 03:33:37 pm
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/immigration/reports/2018/06/01/451474/still-refugees-people-continue-flee-violence-latin-american-countries/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 18, 2018, 03:38:32 pm
And many are refugees fleeing the so called Northern Triangle which is one of the most dangerous places in South America.

Wrong.  If you're a refugee desperately fleeing persecution, you go to the legal port of entry and claim refugee status.  That's the process.  If you sneak into a country illegally you're just a criminal piece of **** akin to spitting on that country's laws and democracy.

Growing up I always imagined hypothetically what would happen if i ran from Canada across the border into the US, and I assumed the border guards or some military sniper would shoot me dead.  Guess that ain't so.

We need to capture people entering illegally, try to establish their identity if possible, take their mugshot and fingerprints so we can run those biometrics against a database against all future immigrant claimants.  If you're caught entering illegally you should booted & barred from ever legally immigrating to US or Canada.  This database should be shared with our international allies.  That's called a deterrent.

 I don't give a flying f*ck about your sob story, we have legal processes to project legit asylum seekers so please use them.  This is a sovereign country, you obey the laws or get lost.  A country that can't protect its own borders from foreign invasion isn't a sovereign country.

We have do-gooders on the left crying tears for criminal border crossers, then we have butt-heads like Trump on the right wanting to go to opposite extreme of separating kids as deterrent.  We need rational policy makers to make tough but fair decisions to defend our sovereignty.  We don't need a-holes like Trump being inhumane or spineless PC losers afraid of offending some leftwing bleeding hearts suffering from a guilt-complex that want to turn our country into a 3rd world ****-stain because they want to save all 6 billion poor people on the planet without considering the consequences.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 18, 2018, 03:52:20 pm
Pointing out that Trump continues to tell blatant lies such as blaming the Democrats for a law regarding immigrants that doesn't actually exist is in your mind a "biased" approach by the media?

Did i say that?  The media points out the truth then they go on biased smear rants.  The president lies, the media lies (or at least omits facts or takes things out of context). So how is a reader supposed to know what's true?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 18, 2018, 03:52:30 pm
Wrong.  If you're a refugee desperately fleeing persecution, you go to the legal port of entry and claim refugee status.  That's the process.  If you sneak into a country illegally you're just a criminal piece of **** akin to spitting on that country's laws and democracy.

Growing up I always imagined hypothetically what would happen if i ran from Canada across the border into the US, and I assumed the border guards or some military sniper would shoot me dead.  Guess that ain't so.

We need to capture people entering illegally, try to establish their identity if possible, take their mugshot and fingerprints so we can run those biometrics against a database against all future immigrant claimants.  If you're caught entering illegally you should booted & barred from ever legally immigrating to US or Canada.  This database should be shared with our international allies.  That's called a deterrent.

 I don't give a flying f*ck about your sob story, we have legal processes to project legit asylum seekers so please use them.  This is a sovereign country, you obey the laws or get lost.  A country that can't protect its own borders from foreign invasion isn't a sovereign country.

We have do-gooders on the left crying tears for criminal border crossers, then we have butt-heads like Trump on the right wanting to go to opposite extreme of separating kids as deterrent.  We need rational policy makers to make tough but fair decisions to defend our sovereignty.  We don't need a-holes like Trump being inhumane or spineless PC losers afraid of offending some leftwing bleeding hearts suffering from a guilt-complex that want to turn our country into a 3rd world ****-stain because they want to save all 6 billion poor people on the planet without considering the consequences.

Boy when you decided to turn tight wing you really went all the way eh. Crossing the US border is a misdemeanor under US law and there is a process to deal with the people committing them which does not involve separating children from their parents, but rather does allow for them to be deported if they do not meet asylum seeker status. That can be done without throwing kids into chicken coups.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 18, 2018, 03:55:57 pm
Did i say that?  The media points out the truth then they go on biased smear rants.  The president lies, the media lies (or at least omits facts or takes things out of context). So how is a reader supposed to know what's true?

Fact checking. For instance that is how I found there is no law requiring children to be separated from their parents who may have crossed the border illegally, and so it would also follow that it's yet another Trump lie that the Dems created said law, that doesn't exist.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 18, 2018, 04:13:03 pm
I see even Sarah Sanders is hiding away from having to answer questions on the immigration issue and has delayed the press briefing for a number of hours while she clambers for a recruit to join her. Perhaps being queried recently by a reporter about how she could, as a mother herself, support her bosses policy of holding young children as hostage finally got through to her. Somehow I doubt that but more likely she does know the **** storm she will have to face from the press over this issue. even from the GOP.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 18, 2018, 04:15:59 pm
Fact checking. For instance that is how I found there is no law requiring children to be separated from their parents who may have crossed the border illegally, and so it would also follow that it's yet another Trump lie that the Dems created said law, that doesn't exist.

This is the best I can find so far from both a right wing (Ben Shapiro) and leftwing source (NYT), and the AP:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/31980/media-are-lying-about-trump-separating-illegal-ben-shapiro

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/14/us/politics/fact-check-republicans-family-separations-border.html

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/06/14/us/politics/ap-us-immigration-fact-check.html

and Snopes Fact check, which seems vague to me:  https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/was-law-separate-families-passed-1997/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 18, 2018, 04:25:45 pm
So what I see is if Trump wants to refer illegal immigrants to criminal prosecution, he is forced by legal precedents it seems to separate children from them, because children can't stay in jail for more than 20 days if there's better alternatives available (like staying with family already in the US).  Illegal immigrant parents have the choice to be deported with their children, or they can claim asylum after entering illegally, in which case they would be separated.

The choice by Trump is that he's choosing to prosecute parents who break the law, thus triggering children to be separated.  Trump didn't create the policy itself to separate the children.  Trump has blamed democrats for the law to separate children (false) and blames democrats for stalling on any legislation to make a new law to fix this issue (probably true, since all of this is really bad PR for Trump and helps the dems).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 18, 2018, 04:44:34 pm
So what I see is if Trump wants to refer illegal immigrants to criminal prosecution, he is forced by legal precedents it seems to separate children from them, because children can't stay in jail for more than 20 days if there's better alternatives available (like staying with family already in the US).  Illegal immigrant parents have the choice to be deported with their children, or they can claim asylum after entering illegally, in which case they would be separated.

The choice by Trump is that he's choosing to prosecute parents who break the law, thus triggering children to be separated.  Trump didn't create the policy itself to separate the children.  Trump has blamed democrats for the law to separate children (false) and blames democrats for stalling on any legislation to make a new law to fix this issue (probably true, since all of this is really bad PR for Trump and helps the dems).

There is no precedent and no law that requires Trump to prosecute people who have crossed the border illegally which is what has led to the family separations. That is his choice and one I suspect he's taken to pander to his base, who will believe almost anything he says it seems. Those families could be processed, without prosecution, found to have no valid argument for asylum and then deported, but kept together as a family during that process. It's simply a cruel way of trying to scare people from jumping the border, even those who may have very valid reasons.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 18, 2018, 04:48:16 pm

I've never seen such a propaganda campaign against a POTUS, it's really amazing. 


Pfft.  How about when Fox painted Obama as a Muslim Socialist for 8 years and Trump kept up an attack on his birth certificate ?  No, this war is iterative and when a Democrat wins again it will be worse in a different way.  When Republicans didn't hold Trump back for outright lying, and still don't then all bets are off.

You can't rely on process to bring a dictator like this down. 

All signs point to this idiot destroying trade treaties that have taken decades to put together, as well as bringing the US into constitutional crisis.  They can fix democracy later, they should just get him out of there now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 18, 2018, 04:48:42 pm
Boy when you decided to turn tight wing you really went all the way eh.

Is enforcing border law tough but fairly a right-wing viewpoint?

Why are immigration laws the only laws that people can break and people feel sorry for criminals?  I feel bad for kids whose parents brought them here illegally and now they're stuck in a bind without legal status through no fault of their own.  I feel bad for people who live in crappy conditions and/or fleeing crappy situations.  I don't feel bad for people who break our laws.  They know what they're doing, they're taking the risk to obtain a reward, and they need to be punished if caught to maintain a deterrent. I also feel bad for honest asylum seekers who follow the law while they see people jumping the cue and being rewarded.

Laws are deterrents if enforced. Laws not enforced and rewarding illegal activity creates incentive to break the law and disincentive to follow the law (which is usually the less convenient process).

I work at a job in a sensitive security situation.  Members of the public lie to my face every day, committing fraud and breaking the law, because they're selfish and lazy and want to cheat the system.  Some people are darned good liars too, you can't trip them up.  Unfortunately there's too many of these scumbags to even bother enforcing the law according to my employer.  But I don't feel sorry for them, virtually all of them know what they're doing.  Fortunately I sometimes get the pleasure of calling them out on their criminal activity and scaring the sh*t out of them so they hopefully won't do it again.  But most probably will somewhere else.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 18, 2018, 04:55:40 pm
Is enforcing border law tough but fairly a right-wing viewpoint?

Why are immigration laws the only laws that people can break and people feel sorry for criminals?  I feel bad for kids whose parents brought them here illegally and now they're stuck in a bind without legal status through no fault of their own.  I feel bad for people who live in crappy conditions and/or fleeing crappy situations.  I don't feel bad for people who break our laws.  They know what they're doing, they're taking the risk to obtain a reward, and they need to be punished if caught to maintain a deterrent. I also feel bad for honest asylum seekers who follow the law while they see people jumping the cue and being rewarded.

Laws are deterrents if enforced. Laws not enforced and rewarding illegal activity creates incentive to break the law and disincentive to follow the law (which is usually the less convenient process).

\

I work at a job in a sensitive security situation.  Members of the public lie to my face every day, committing fraud and breaking the law, because they're selfish and lazy and want to cheat the system.  Some people are darned good liars too, you can't trip them up.  Unfortunately there's too many of these scumbags to even bother enforcing the law according to my employer.  But I don't feel sorry for them, virtually all of them know what they're doing.  Fortunately I sometimes get the pleasure of calling them out on their criminal activity and scaring the sh*t out of them so they hopefully won't do it again.  But most probably will somewhere else.

And you miss the point yet again. However you deal with immigrants whether they be legal or not, you don't need to tear the kids away from their mothers while you do so. 
Trump could stop all this with phone call.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 18, 2018, 07:50:55 pm
And many are refugees fleeing the so called Northern Triangle which is one of the most dangerous places in South America.

Then why not flee to Costa Rica, which is so much closer? Why not stop in Mexico?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 18, 2018, 07:54:10 pm
Then why not flee to Costa Rica, which is so much closer? Why not stop in Mexico?

Well think about it, if you're casting your fate to the wind and escaping your birthplace wouldn't you perhaps head for the best place you've heard about?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 18, 2018, 07:59:58 pm
Is enforcing border law tough but fairly a right-wing viewpoint?

Apparently. It's certainly not something good liberals or progressives do...
Which reminds me again of the quote from last year from David Frum.

 “When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders, then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won’t do.”

We see this happening in Germany, in Austria, in Italy and Greece, and to a lesser extent, in the US with Trump. His 'build the wall' promise was one of the biggest vote getters of anything he offered up, and is still extremely popular.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 18, 2018, 08:01:58 pm
Well think about it, if you're casting your fate to the wind and escaping your birthplace wouldn't you perhaps head for the best place you've heard about?

Costa Rica is a nice place, far closer, a far less dangerous journey, full of people who speak the same language. Mexico, or at least parts of Mexico, are similar. The long journey through Mexico in hopes of some coyote sneaking you and your kids over the wall and through a desert would seem to be an unnecessary danger.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 18, 2018, 08:03:21 pm
Apparently. It's certainly not something good liberals or progressives do...
Which reminds me again of the quote from last year from David Frum.

 “When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders, then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won’t do.”

We see this happening in Germany, in Austria, in Italy and Greece, and to a lesser extent, in the US with Trump. His 'build the wall' promise was one of the biggest vote getters of anything he offered up, and is still extremely popular.

You call 40% "extremely popular"? You seem to have a similar ability as does Tim to jiggle figures to suit your wishes. Nobody really wants the wall and that's why congress will never give him the money.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 18, 2018, 08:17:08 pm
You call 40% "extremely popular"? You seem to have a similar ability as does Tim to jiggle figures to suit your wishes. Nobody really wants the wall and that's why congress will never give him the money.

You are presuming that only those who voted for Trump want a wall or at least, a huge improvement in border security and immigration control. And btw, only Mulroney ever got more than 50% of the vote. Trump got 46%.

If I were an American, I would not want a 'wall'. That would be too expensive, and is unnecessary. But I would certainly favour heavily reinforcing the border. I would not have favoured it enough to vote for Trump, of course, but many did. And the election was close. If he hadn't been able to beat the drum on this issue he would probably not be president.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 18, 2018, 08:26:19 pm
I don't know if anybody else just suffered through the current chat between Chris Cuomo and Kelly Anne but I came away why wondering he even offers that stunned **** a seat at his table. She's nothing but a stupid wind up doll who has her nose so far up Trumps ass it's pathetic. She really outdid herself this time though, with her comments about immigrant children. Any other views?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 18, 2018, 09:06:11 pm
Apparently Trump would like to carve new words into that statue on an island in New York harbor to read "Beware before you dare to come here"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on June 19, 2018, 12:03:54 am
Is enforcing border law tough but fairly a right-wing viewpoint?

Why are immigration laws the only laws that people can break and people feel sorry for criminals?  I feel bad for kids whose parents brought them here illegally and now they're stuck in a bind without legal status through no fault of their own.  I feel bad for people who live in crappy conditions and/or fleeing crappy situations.  I don't feel bad for people who break our laws.  They know what they're doing, they're taking the risk to obtain a reward, and they need to be punished if caught to maintain a deterrent. I also feel bad for honest asylum seekers who follow the law while they see people jumping the cue and being rewarded.

Laws are deterrents if enforced. Laws not enforced and rewarding illegal activity creates incentive to break the law and disincentive to follow the law (which is usually the less convenient process).

I work at a job in a sensitive security situation.  Members of the public lie to my face every day, committing fraud and breaking the law, because they're selfish and lazy and want to cheat the system.  Some people are darned good liars too, you can't trip them up.  Unfortunately there's too many of these scumbags to even bother enforcing the law according to my employer.  But I don't feel sorry for them, virtually all of them know what they're doing.  Fortunately I sometimes get the pleasure of calling them out on their criminal activity and scaring the sh*t out of them so they hopefully won't do it again.  But most probably will somewhere else.

This is a really ridiculous argument.

By the same logic, we should kill terrorists' families as a deterrent, as some have proposed.  Sure, it may deter some criminals, but ultimately you're punishing innocent people who've never committed a crime just because they are related to a criminal. 

In this case, they're minors FFS who will forever be scarred by this depraved and brutal policy.

There is no 'explanation' for it, it's just victim blaming for a policy that has no place in a civilized society.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 12:14:24 am
One question I have is why does Chris Cuomo interview a stunned idiot airhead like Kelly Anne Conway on his show. She's just a blond Barbie doll who will say whatever Trump tells her to say and so all she is is just aggrevating to anyone with half a brain in their head. Leave that **** to the likes of faux news who actually believe her **** would be my advice to CNN.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 12:43:43 am
It's a sort of sick fun to watch these right wing nig nogs like rick Santorum and Steve Cortes who are apparently in support of the party who take credit for the words scribed into the statue of liberty and then support the idea of sending the children of immigrants into detention centers. Could anyone possibly demonstrate a more extreme version of hypocrisy?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 19, 2018, 05:00:27 am
---
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 19, 2018, 05:05:11 am
This is a really ridiculous argument.
So you argument the US should allow the ~6 billion people in economic distress to immigrant to the country because enforcing border laws is wrong? If you don't like the current approach then suggest alternatives which would reduce the number of people trying immigrate illegally.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 19, 2018, 08:11:29 am
I agree with the idea that not everybody who wants to come to the US, or Canada, should be let in.

But there has to be a line that we don't cross, because we aren't animals.  We could hang the corpses of asylum-seekers from posts along the border as a deterrent, but we don't do that, because we are human beings with consciences. What's going right now should be upsetting to human beings with consciences regardless of how they feel about preventing illegal border crossing.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 19, 2018, 08:13:03 am
This is a really ridiculous argument.

By the same logic, we should kill terrorists' families as a deterrent, as some have proposed.  Sure, it may deter some criminals, but ultimately you're punishing innocent people who've never committed a crime just because they are related to a criminal. 

In this case, they're minors FFS who will forever be scarred by this depraved and brutal policy.

There is no 'explanation' for it, it's just victim blaming for a policy that has no place in a civilized society.
The problem with your analogy is that it is not illegal to apply for asylum. Even staying past an expired visa is a simple misdemeanor in US law. It is not by the same logic that we would kill terrorists families. It is by the same logic that someone who runs a red light should have their child ripped from their car seat and put into a cage somewhere, without telling the parent where they are and having no documentation to even be able to return the child at a later date. And that's if they've already been denied asylum and stay. The US government is arresting and detaining people who have not broken any laws. Again, it is not illegal to ask for asylum. Civilized countries put these people up and treat them humanely while they process their claims. If they're rejected then they're sent back. People need to really start to pay attention to these narratives. Asylum seekers are not criminals. They are literally applicants.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 19, 2018, 08:17:02 am
So you argument the US should allow the ~6 billion people in economic distress to immigrant to the country because enforcing border laws is wrong? If you don't like the current approach then suggest alternatives which would reduce the number of people trying immigrate illegally.
What an utterly stupid false dichotomy. There's a world of options between putting the children of asylum applicants into concentration camps, beating and raping them while they're there (https://www.colorlines.com/articles/immigrant-children-allegedly-subjected-physical-sexual-abuse-border-patrol-agents), and completely opening the borders with no security.

If you don't understand why people should be treated humanely, then there's no getting through to you. That's basic decency that shouldn't need to be articulated in any conversation, let alone one where the United States is literally acting like Nazi Germany.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 19, 2018, 08:17:46 am
We could hang the corpses of asylum-seekers from posts along the border as a deterrent

 -k
Don't give them any ideas.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 19, 2018, 08:25:22 am

But there has to be a line that we don't cross, because we aren't animals. 

... we don't do that, because we are human beings with consciences.

What is your limit ?  They are edging into violence now and inhumanity.  We could boycott and passively resist but that's going to take lots of time, maybe 6 1/2 years.  And after that, now that it's understood that checks and balances are subordinate to human behaviour, it could well get worse.

At what point do you start making plans to actively resist ?  I don't know.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 19, 2018, 08:54:19 am
There's a world of options between putting the children of asylum applicants into concentration camps.
Of course there are, however, if one is going to enforce the law at borders there will be many times when enforcing the law causes hardship for people that may be sympathetic but don't qualify as immigrants. If one is not willing to accept this hardship as a necessary evil then one cannot claim to be willing to enforce border laws.

The trouble is many of the voices opposing child separation have previously suggested that they don't want to enforce any border laws if they cause hardship to sympathetic individuals. This undermines their arguments about child separation. That is why it not enough to simply rant about the child separation - it is also necessary to advocate a realistic policy to enforce the law without exploding costs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 19, 2018, 10:12:25 am
Quote
The trouble is many of the voices opposing child separation have previously suggested that they don't want to enforce any border laws if they cause hardship to sympathetic individuals.

Like who?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 19, 2018, 10:14:52 am
Of course there are, however, if one is going to enforce the law at borders there will be many times when enforcing the law causes hardship for people that may be sympathetic but don't qualify as immigrants.
There is no law! This is a procedural policy on the part of the administration for processing claims. No one has broken any god damned law. The laws that do exist, in regards to overstaying a visa, or entering the country illegally are misdemeanors. They are literally on par with running a red light or speeding.

Your dismissal of the absolutely appalling conditions, combined with your clear ignorance of the legal situation, is ridiculous. It's people like you that these **** rely upon to spread their lies and propaganda, hoping to suck others into their disinformation campaign to sow social chaos. You're literally an ignorant tool for fascist propaganda and you're too god damned stubborn to see it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 19, 2018, 10:16:10 am
Like who?
Good luck. I'm sure Tim will post a link to any politician saying border laws shouldn't be enforced. This is more bullshit propaganda that he's more than happy to spread for Trump's fascist state.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 10:28:02 am
There is no law! This is a procedural policy on the part of the administration for processing claims. No one has broken any god damned law. The laws that do exist, in regards to overstaying a visa, or entering the country illegally are misdemeanors. They are literally on par with running a red light or speeding.

Your dismissal of the absolutely appalling conditions, combined with your clear ignorance of the legal situation, is ridiculous. It's people like you that these **** rely upon to spread their lies and propaganda, hoping to suck others into their disinformation campaign to sow social chaos. You're literally an ignorant tool for fascist propaganda and you're too god damned stubborn to see it.

And last I heard Trump is still blathering on not only about their being "a law" but that it is the Dems. who to blame for it. And I'm sure the knuckle draggers who support him will eat that pablum until the next bowlful is put in front of them. You would think eating that much bull **** would make you sick eventually. Sheesh!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 10:57:05 am
Would I be correct in assuming that Trump may be using his approach to prosecuting asylum seekers and taking their kids from them as a way to put pressure on congress to pass his immigration bills including funding for his wall? It sounds sort of Trump like.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 19, 2018, 11:19:16 am
At what point do you start making plans to actively resist ?  I don't know.

You get people like Trump, like the current new leaders in Austria and Greece and Italy, and the ADF people in Germany who are threatening to unseat Angela Merkel, by ignoring the will of the people for too long on an emotional issue. People in the US have been demanding a crackdown on illegal immigration for decades. But a combination of Democrats who love brown people (who vote Democrat) and Republicans beholden to wealthy corporations who love brown people (who work cheap) has meant their wishes have been ignored. Trump is the result.

You want stuff like this to not happen? Do not provide a situation where people like Trump get elected.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 19, 2018, 11:23:19 am
There is no law!

Of course there's a law. And the government in the US has decided to begin applying it to all those who sneak across the border.

Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325#
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 11:23:32 am
Yet another reason to do away with the Electoral College.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 11:27:16 am
Of course there's a law. And the government in the US has decided to begin applying it to all those who sneak across the border.

Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325#

The issue here is that there is no law requiring children to be separated from their parents, even though Trump keeps babbling on that there is and that it is the Dems. who created it. Sheer nonsense but Trumpists seem to be easily led by the nose.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: chilipeppers on June 19, 2018, 11:43:15 am
I think you got that wrong, it's the left who are too easily fooled into blaming the other side. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 11:45:08 am
I think you got that wrong, it's the left who are too easily fooled into blaming the other side.

Perhaps study up the facts of the issue a bit before commenting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on June 19, 2018, 11:55:03 am
I'm absolutely against tearing families apart and I don't agree with all of her points here but it was interesting to me that this has been going on for years and no one cared until now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXNC9t6KlnQ
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 11:59:06 am
Trump at the moment is prattling on on tv trying to conflate people who may seek asylum by illegally crossing the border with being MS13 members. What a sick puppy he is but his followers with eat up that **** as fast as he puts it out.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 19, 2018, 12:04:43 pm
Of course there's a law. And the government in the US has decided to begin applying it to all those who sneak across the border.

Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325#
Show me the trials! These people haven't broken any laws whatsoever, until due process has been done.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: chilipeppers on June 19, 2018, 12:09:04 pm
10,000 of 12,000 Detained Kids came without their Parents - think about that.

If American citizens sent their American/citizen children alone on a dangerous journey with various vicious gangs and drug/people/sex traffickers with full intentions of breaking the law, most people including liberals, would demand that child services take the children from parents. 

So, should parents who actually do this horrendous act of risking their kids lives to commit a crime -  even be admitted as citizens ?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 12:11:16 pm
I'm absolutely against tearing families apart and I don't agree with all of her points here but it was interesting to me that this has been going on for years and no one cared until now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXNC9t6KlnQ

I'm afraid your little right wing mrc girl has got her facts wrong. There are many current pictures of children whose parents have been prosecuted and so the children are separated and housed in basically cages.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 19, 2018, 12:19:11 pm
Of course there's a law. And the government in the US has decided to begin applying it to all those who sneak across the border.

Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325#

horseshyte SirArgus - horseshyte!

Cheeto took some real heat cause of: Despite vow to end ‘catch and release,’ Trump has freed 100,000 who illegally crossed the border --- https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/immigration/despite-vow-to-end-catch-and-release-trump-has-freed-100000-who-illegally-crossed-the-border/2018/04/13/839c778e-3754-11e8-acd5-35eac230e514_story.html?utm_term=.381023c3a299

Quote
Homeland Security officials say they had to release the migrants — more than 37,500 unaccompanied minors and more than 61,000 family members — because of judges’ rulings and federal laws banning prolonged detentions for children, as well as a lack of detention beds.

which brought about the NaziStephenMiller inspired 'zero tolerance' policy:
(https://i.imgur.com/uTx8E4B.png)

the interpretations of which brought forward the Trump/U.S. "Child Separation" policy... policy, not law
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 19, 2018, 12:19:54 pm
There is no law! This is a procedural policy on the part of the administration for processing claims. No one has broken any god damned law. The laws that do exist, in regards to overstaying a visa, or entering the country illegally are misdemeanors. They are literally on par with running a red light or speeding.
WTF? I was talking about illegal immigration in general. In any case, misdemeanors are laws.

More importantly, no one has a right to enter the US. If someone does enter illegally an refuses to leave then US government is entitled to use whatever force is necessary to get them to leave. Almost every country with an influx of migrants creates camps where there refugees are kept as prisoners.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 19, 2018, 12:23:35 pm
I'm absolutely against tearing families apart and I don't agree with all of her points here but it was interesting to me that this has been going on for years and no one cared until now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXNC9t6KlnQ

horseshyte! By the by, about that "Media Research Center" behind your favoured vid; stated mission: "to "expose and neutralize the propaganda arm of the Left: the national news media." --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Research_Center
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: chilipeppers on June 19, 2018, 12:24:54 pm
I'm absolutely against tearing families apart and I don't agree with all of her points here but it was interesting to me that this has been going on for years and no one cared until now.
This is true but it's an issue now because the left is using these children as political pawns, they didn't care when it was done under the Obama administration.

Illegal Immigrants are by definition are law breakers, so in every State children do not go to jail with the parents, they go into social services.

Congress can change the legislation to include a provision stating that children should be kept with their parents in detention or given an option but it's not likely the Dems would co-operate with any GOP legislation if it would make things better for Trump, even tho it would help children.

Remember when Hillary said the US should deport thousands of unaccompanied minors who have flooded the American border
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2660756/Send-Hillary-says-wave-illegal-immigrant-children-reunited-families.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 19, 2018, 12:28:50 pm
If someone does enter illegally an refuses to leave then US government is entitled to use whatever force is necessary to get them to leave. Almost every country with an influx of migrants creates camps where there refugees are kept as prisoners.

separating children from mothers/families... like that force you imply is, as you say, "necessary to get them to leave"?

of course what is happening/has happened... is that mothers/parents are deported first (without their children)... with situations, as I read, where children continue to be "housed" (for as long as 4 months... as uncovered, so far) before they can be sent back/reunited with their families - care to challenge that statement?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 19, 2018, 12:30:37 pm
This is true but it's an issue now because the left is using these children as political pawns, they didn't care when it was done under the Obama administration.

'child separation' under the Obama admin... who knew? Citation request:
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 19, 2018, 12:33:44 pm
Congress can change the legislation to include a provision stating that children should be kept with their parents in detention or given an option but it's not likely the Dems would co-operate with any GOP legislation if it would make things better for Trump, even tho it would help children.

Cheeto, the world's best "deal maker", presumes to hold these separated children as a negotiating ploy... to have Congress release monies for "the wall". Clearly, Cheeto is your boy!

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 19, 2018, 12:37:58 pm
The issue here is that there is no law requiring children to be separated from their parents, even though Trump keeps babbling on that there is and that it is the Dems. who created it. Sheer nonsense but Trumpists seem to be easily led by the nose.

That is not the issue. The issue is that the government put in this 'zero tolerance' policy without any plans for dealing with an influx of children.

Children are separated from their parents all the time when the latter are arrested/imprisoned. Most are looked after by various relatives but a significant number of them have to be taken care of by the state. In this case there are no relatives in the US and the state made no plans for dealing with them. Their current housing is clearly unacceptable on any level.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 12:40:00 pm
This is true but it's an issue now because the left is using these children as political pawns, they didn't care when it was done under the Obama administration.

Illegal Immigrants are by definition are law breakers, so in every State children do not go to jail with the parents, they go into social services.

Congress can change the legislation to include a provision stating that children should be kept with their parents in detention or given an option but it's not likely the Dems would co-operate with any GOP legislation if it would make things better for Trump, even tho it would help children.

Remember when Hillary said the US should deport thousands of unaccompanied minors who have flooded the American border
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2660756/Send-Hillary-says-wave-illegal-immigrant-children-reunited-families.html

All Trump has to do is make one phone call and the policy of separating kids will stop.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 12:42:17 pm
That is not the issue. The issue is that the government put in this 'zero tolerance' policy without any plans for dealing with an influx of children.

Children are separated from their parents all the time when the latter are arrested/imprisoned. Most are looked after by various relatives but a significant number of them have to be taken care of by the state. In this case there are no relatives in the US and the state made no plans for dealing with them. Their current housing is clearly unacceptable on any level.

The issue is they don't have to be jailed in the first place. There is no law that says so, regardless of how many times Trump tries to say there is.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 19, 2018, 12:44:30 pm
I'm absolutely against tearing families apart and I don't agree with all of her points here but it was interesting to me that this has been going on for years and no one cared until now.

To me, the pertinent details are that most of those families under the 'catch and release' plan never showed up for a hearing, and that it's illegal to keep illegal immigrant's kids in detention for more than 20 days, which would seem to make it impossible to lock them up together. So as she says, this leaves little alternative but to go back to catch and release or do as they're doing...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 19, 2018, 12:45:41 pm
The issue is they don't have to be jailed in the first place. There is no law that says so, regardless of how many times Trump tries to say there is.

It is the parents being jailed. Because they broke the law.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 12:50:15 pm
It is the parents being jailed. Because they broke the law.

And that policy is entirely Trump's choice. Not required by a law that doesn't exist, as much as he drones on that it does.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 01:07:04 pm
The comparison of what Trump is up to and Nazism was inevitable and boy did Sessions ever **** up when that concept was suggested to him. And lo and behold it was even on FOX faux news as well.

 https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/6/19/17478218/family-separations-border-nazi
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 19, 2018, 01:21:37 pm
More importantly, no one has a right to enter the US. If someone does enter illegally an refuses to leave then US government is entitled to use whatever force is necessary to get them to leave.
No they most certainly are not "entitled to use whatever force is necessary." Are you insane? Seriously. I need to know because you're speaking like a crazy person. You're literally on here trying to justify child concentration camps where there have been reports of them being beaten and **** (as if I need to make it any worse than they're simply ripped from their parents). These are innocent children who are being abused by state actors because their parents maybe committed a simple misdemeanor.

Once again, it's not a **** crime to seek asylum, even if you don't qualify. You don't beat and **** asylum seekers for applying and you sure as **** don't abuse their children to send them a message. Seriously, wtf is wrong with you?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 19, 2018, 01:22:59 pm
separating children from mothers/families... like that force you imply is, as you say, "necessary to get them to leave"?
I guess if Tim was travelling and his kid got ripped from his arms at the border and he wasn't told where they were being taken, he would just pack his bags and leave that country without his child....because "oops...I should have known better. It's my fault this country is abusing my child."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 19, 2018, 01:24:41 pm
Children are separated from their parents all the time when the latter are arrested/imprisoned.
You don't arrest and imprison people for seeking asylum. It's really not that difficult to understand. Every civilized country on the planet manages to process asylum seekers and migrants without building concentration camps for their children. Give your head a shake.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 19, 2018, 01:25:47 pm
most of those families under the 'catch and release' plan never showed up for a hearing
MOST of those families never showed up for hearings? Stop making up lies to support fascist bullshit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on June 19, 2018, 01:26:54 pm
I guess if Tim was travelling and his kid got ripped from his arms at the border and he wasn't told where they were being taken, he would just pack his bags and leave that country without his child....because "oops...I should have known better. It's my fault this country is abusing my child."
Please provide a cite where parents are told they can't take their children with them if they choose to leave. The problem exists because the parents don't want to leave.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 19, 2018, 01:28:45 pm
Please provide a cite where parents are told they can't take their children with them if they choose to leave. The problem exists because the parents don't want to leave.
More lies and bullshit, supporting Trump's fascist agenda implemented by a self-avowed white supremacist. Perfect bedfellows for you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 01:30:14 pm
Please provide a cite where parents are told they can't take their children with them if they choose to leave. The problem exists because the parents don't want to leave.

The parents wouldn't have likely traveled as far and through as much difficulty as they did just to say OK, we'll just leave now. What a stupid comment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 19, 2018, 01:32:05 pm
And that policy is entirely Trump's choice. Not required by a law that doesn't exist, as much as he drones on that it does.

I just explained that the law does exist.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 19, 2018, 01:33:40 pm
You don't arrest and imprison people for seeking asylum. It's really not that difficult to understand. Every civilized country on the planet manages to process asylum seekers and migrants without building concentration camps for their children. Give your head a shake.

They're not being arrested for seeking asylum. They're being arrested for crossing the border illegally. There is a very clear distinction.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 01:35:54 pm
I just explained that the law does exist.

Well you failed because the law does not require the current actions being taken by the Trump administration. That's simply a policy issue but perhaps that is too nuanced for you to comprehend.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 19, 2018, 01:36:02 pm
Trump literally just said immigrants "infest" America. Familiar language. We're a hop, skip, and jump away from exterminating the infestation, aren't we? And you guys are just delighted that we have a modern day Nazi administration on our border.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 01:44:06 pm
Trump literally just said immigrants "infest" America. Familiar language. We're a hop, skip, and jump away from exterminating the infestation, aren't we? And you guys are just delighted that we have a modern day Nazi administration on our border.

I initially thought the suggested correlation between Trump and Hitler was a bit of a reach but as I have looked back through the history of the initial phases of Nazism and what continues to occur the other side of our southern border I have to say it's a little frightening. Hopefully at the mid terms people will come to their senses and gut a lot of Trump's power and then maybe fire up the impeachment process.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 19, 2018, 01:49:41 pm
Well you failed because the law does not require the current actions being taken by the Trump administration. That's simply a policy issue but perhaps that is too nuanced for you to comprehend.

The law was simply not being enforced before. Now it is. That's the basic difference in policy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 01:53:13 pm
The law was simply not being enforced before. Now it is. That's the basic difference in policy.

And that is Trump's choice, not a legal requirement.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on June 19, 2018, 01:56:09 pm
Trump literally just said immigrants "infest" America. Familiar language. We're a hop, skip, and jump away from exterminating the infestation, aren't we? And you guys are just delighted that we have a modern day Nazi administration on our border.

I don't think most people here are  "delighted" with children being kept in detention.  It's not that black & white.  I think we all agree there is a better way of handling this.

Why can't we be against keeping children in detention AND also be against illegal immigration?


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 19, 2018, 01:58:06 pm
Why can't we be against keeping children in detention AND also be against illegal immigration?

who/what is in favour of illegal immigration? Name the names - sure you can!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on June 19, 2018, 02:01:08 pm
who/what is in favour of illegal immigration? Name the names - sure you can!

Try to follow along - I'm countering the assumption that those who are against illegal immigration agree with children being kept indefinitely in detention.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on June 19, 2018, 02:02:01 pm
Instead of spending millions of dollars putting asylum seekers in concentration camps and prisons enabling the private prison system to make money off tax dollars, what if:

 1. When they arrive at the border, give them a tax id#
 2. They then get a job, pay taxes like they always have but pay an additional residency tax for 7-10 years.
 3. At the end of the 7-10 years of proven employment, all taxes paid, no criminal record, they become a citizen.

 This would take the burden of supporting them off the tax payers, this would generate another source of tax monies and create a legitimate pathway to citizenship.

I haven't worked out the details yet  :)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 02:05:10 pm
I don't think most people here are  "delighted" with children being kept in detention.  It's not that black & white.  I think we all agree there is a better way of handling this.

Why can't we be against keeping children in detention AND also be against illegal immigration?

You can process people seeking asylum, determine those who do not have a valid argument for doing so and then deport them. Separating the children is simply what Trump wants to use as a blanket deterrent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 19, 2018, 02:53:50 pm
Instead of spending millions of dollars putting asylum seekers in concentration camps and prisons enabling the private prison system to make money off tax dollars, what if:

 1. When they arrive at the border, give them a tax id#
 2. They then get a job, pay taxes like they always have but pay an additional residency tax for 7-10 years.
 3. At the end of the 7-10 years of proven employment, all taxes paid, no criminal record, they become a citizen.

 This would take the burden of supporting them off the tax payers, this would generate another source of tax monies and create a legitimate pathway to citizenship.

I haven't worked out the details yet  :)

One of those details should be figuring out how to handle five hundred million people immigrating to the US...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 03:07:53 pm
One of those details should be figuring out how to handle five hundred million people immigrating to the US...

Five hundred million, where did you pull that number from? I could guess but I won't.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on June 19, 2018, 03:48:52 pm
One of those details should be figuring out how to handle five hundred million people immigrating to the US...

Is that the number of illegal immigrants?  Or all immigrants together - legal and illegal?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 19, 2018, 03:55:11 pm
Five hundred million, where did you pull that number from? I could guess but I won't.

If you simply permit anyone who crosses the border to legally stay and work n the US then a freaking ton of people, including half the population of central america and mexico, will come across the border. Why wouldn't they? You'd see a flood of people moving up from South America, not to mention people coming across from Africa, Asia and the middle east.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 19, 2018, 03:56:38 pm
Is that the number of illegal immigrants?  Or all immigrants together - legal and illegal?

Well, according to your suggestions there would be no illegals, so anyone who crossed the border would get to stay and work there, right? I'm guessing a massive number of people throughout the Americas, Africa, the Middle East, and Asia would head there as fast as they could travel.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 19, 2018, 04:00:28 pm
It has been brought up by several experts on this, some of them former immigration officials, that there will inevitably be several hundred of these kids who will never be reunited with their kids. Adults and children are treated differently under the law, the adults can be sent back to their country of origin quite quickly whereas children have a lot more protections (trafficking etc) and the process can take a couple of years. Many of the adults will be sent back quickly while there kids are sent of to foster homes all over the country as they go through the process. There is no single agency that is responsible for both looking after the kids and keeping track of the parent's whereabouts and it is a certainty that dozens if not hundreds will get lost in the system.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on June 19, 2018, 04:03:51 pm
Is that the number of illegal immigrants?  Or all immigrants together - legal and illegal?

Argus doesn't know, he's just pulling numbers out of hi .. the air. The US only has a population of 325 million and it's estimated there are about 11-12 million illegal immigrants.  Annual immigration from all sources is about 1.3 to 1.5 million per year.

Here's a site with all kinds of interesting information about immigration in the US.
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states#Numbers
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 04:05:24 pm
If you simply permit anyone who crosses the border to legally stay and work n the US then a freaking ton of people, including half the population of central america and mexico, will come across the border. Why wouldn't they? You'd see a flood of people moving up from South America, not to mention people coming across from Africa, Asia and the middle east.

At the current average rate of immigration into the US your 500 million mark will only take a little over 8000 years to happen.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 04:07:19 pm
It has been brought up by several experts on this, some of them former immigration officials, that there will inevitably be several hundred of these kids who will never be reunited with their kids. Adults and children are treated differently under the law, the adults can be sent back to their country of origin quite quickly whereas children have a lot more protections (trafficking etc) and the process can take a couple of years. Many of the adults will be sent back quickly while there kids are sent of to foster homes all over the country as they go through the process. There is no single agency that is responsible for both looking after the kids and keeping track of the parent's whereabouts and it is a certainty that dozens if not hundreds will get lost in the system.

And in all likelihood many of those children will never see their parents again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 19, 2018, 04:27:57 pm
Trump literally just said immigrants "infest" America. Familiar language. We're a hop, skip, and jump away from exterminating the infestation, aren't we? And you guys are just delighted that we have a modern day Nazi administration on our border.

I don't say Trump is another Hitler but his game plan to get power is right out of the NAZI playbook.  The way he manipulates his followers and their slavish devotion is all too familiar. He would make Joseph Goebbels proud.

Time will tell if the Constitution and much ballyhooed US system of checks and balances can reign him in, or will he just drive right over them. America used to hold it self up as something special and in many ways it was. Not any more, under Trump it's just a big and powerful bully throwing its weight around.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 19, 2018, 04:32:09 pm
At the current average rate of immigration into the US your 500 million mark will only take a little over 8000 years to happen.

You realize the current rate is based on having to apply or pay someone to sneak you over the fence and across the desert and then work illegally for whatever you can get, right? If you could simply walk across the border and work legally what would your reason be for living in Mexico? Haiti? Guatemala? Venezuela? or for that matter, Iraq or Egypt or Nigeria?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 19, 2018, 04:34:06 pm
I don't say Trump is another Hitler but his game plan to get power is right out of the NAZI playbook.  The way he manipulates his followers and their slavish devotion is all too familiar. He would make Joseph Goebbels proud.

How does that make him different from Putin, or Erdogan, or Duterte? Is every loud mouthed demagogue taking after Hitler? He wasn't exactly the first, you know.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 19, 2018, 04:41:24 pm
How does that make him different from Putin, or Erdogan, or Duterte? Is every loud mouthed demagogue taking after Hitler? He wasn't exactly the first, you know.

Where did that come from? Do you have a point or are you just trying to help me make mine?

This is the "shining city on the hill" remember, the great experiment in democracy and all that rubbish.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 19, 2018, 05:52:10 pm
I don't think most people here are  "delighted" with children being kept in detention.  It's not that black & white.  I think we all agree there is a better way of handling this.

Why can't we be against keeping children in detention AND also be against illegal immigration?
Nobody is arguing FOR illegal immigration. People are arguing against concentration camps for migrants and especially children. It is only you, Argus, and Tim who are having some one-sided nonsensical conversation about illegal immigration. No one has advocated for it, no one condones it. People are criticizing the disgusting and inhumane treatment of migrants in the United States. Once again, there is no other civilized advanced industrial nation on the planet that abuses migrants as they process them. It's not only unnecessary, it's completely barbaric and has no justification whatsoever. Once again, even if they had overstayed their visas or crossed into the United States illegally, the offence is a simple misdemeanor and not something that justifies literal concentration camps and the characterization of these people as an "infestation." Least of all, absolutely nothing justifies robbing children from their parents with no process in place to document and reunite them at any point in the future.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 19, 2018, 05:54:38 pm
Try to follow along - I'm countering the assumption that those who are against illegal immigration agree with children being kept indefinitely in detention.
Those who are against illegal immigration are trying to turn the conversation about that. Tim went so far as to say it's the parents' fault that the children are in concentration camps, as if crossing the border illegally is justification for abusing children. If you were really so disgusted by child concentration camps, you wouldn't be finding excuses to blame the parents for the US government engaging in human rights violations.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 19, 2018, 05:56:22 pm
If you simply permit anyone who crosses the border to legally stay and work n the US then a freaking ton of people, including half the population of central america and mexico, will come across the border. Why wouldn't they? You'd see a flood of people moving up from South America, not to mention people coming across from Africa, Asia and the middle east.
Not a single person called for open borders and even if they had, you're still pulling numbers out of your ass, like most of your ideas.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 19, 2018, 06:00:16 pm
You realize the current rate is based on having to apply or pay someone to sneak you over the fence and across the desert and then work illegally for whatever you can get, right? If you could simply walk across the border and work legally what would your reason be for living in Mexico? Haiti? Guatemala? Venezuela? or for that matter, Iraq or Egypt or Nigeria?
And if farts smelled like roses, we wouldn't be greeting each other with handshakes. Once again, you radical conservatives like to make up fake scenarios and bullshit to justify actual real abuse and human rights violations happening right before your eyes. If you were half as principled as you say you are, you wouldn't be harshly criticizing child concentration camps. But you're not. You're nothing more than a sniveling coward afraid of people who speak different languages, have different religions, and especially have different skin colours.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 19, 2018, 06:01:13 pm
Where did that come from? Do you have a point or are you just trying to help me make mine?

This is the "shining city on the hill" remember, the great experiment in democracy and all that rubbish.
Nah. He doesn't remember because he gets off on migrants being abused, unless they're white and speak English. Then and only then are they human beings to Argus.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 19, 2018, 06:12:04 pm
However you deal with immigrants whether they be legal or not, you don't need to tear the kids away from their mothers while you do so. 
Trump could stop all this with phone call.

Taking kids from parents isn't very humane.  They need to pass a new law or something to deal with this.  But if the US wishes to prosecute illegal migrants who willfully break the law and enter the country illegally, they currently don't have a choice as far as I see in the legal precedents but to separate them.  So it needs to change, and IMO the Trump admin should delay separations in most cases unless the child can stay with family or another parents in the US.  But if Trump stopped this right now, he couldn't prosecute.

What needs to be clear though is that these people are also breaking the law, and doing so willfully.  They aren't victims in that sense, but the kids are paying for the parents' lawbreaking and Trump admin very strictly enforcing the law.  Remember, when police arrest any US citizen in the US, including single parents, the children don't go into jail and stay with the parent either, the children are separated from the parent and stay with other family or guardians.  Is it any more cruel in those cases?  At the very least in most cases I'd hope they get lots of visitation rights with their kids.

At this point every migrant in latin america should have heard about this story and policy by now.  At this point the parent is at least equally to blame if their child is separated from them because they chose to break the law knowing full well the policies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 19, 2018, 06:20:56 pm
This is a really ridiculous argument.

By the same logic, we should kill terrorists' families as a deterrent, as some have proposed.  Sure, it may deter some criminals, but ultimately you're punishing innocent people who've never committed a crime just because they are related to a criminal. 

In this case, they're minors FFS who will forever be scarred by this depraved and brutal policy.

There is no 'explanation' for it, it's just victim blaming for a policy that has no place in a civilized society.

You missed the context of our conversation.  I wasn't arguing for enforcing these specific laws that Trump is doing and separating kids.  I was arguing that immigration laws and border sovereignty in general needs to be enforced.

I'm not against prosecuting people who break our laws, depending on circumstance.  I'm not for separating kids from parents if the children don't have other family to stay with.  I certainly wouldn't hold any kids in a chained cage without any family.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 19, 2018, 06:42:04 pm
I agree with the idea that not everybody who wants to come to the US, or Canada, should be let in.

But there has to be a line that we don't cross, because we aren't animals.  We could hang the corpses of asylum-seekers from posts along the border as a deterrent, but we don't do that, because we are human beings with consciences. What's going right now should be upsetting to human beings with consciences regardless of how they feel about preventing illegal border crossing.

If the child separation specifically is being used purposefully as a deterrent then yes that's very immoral.  But what if strictly enforcing the law is being used as the deterrent?  That would be legitimate since enforcing laws & arresting people for crimes is used as a deterrent for every other crime.

Do you think it's inhumane to separate a parent from their child any other time a parent is arrested & charged because they willfully committed a crime?  It happens all the time in Canada.  Because it's also inhumane to have a child sitting in a jail cell, not going to school and in a not-so-nice environment etc.

I think it comes down to how the child is treated in all cases.  Does the child have other loved ones they can stay with?  Or are they sitting with strangers in a cage without any family/loved ones?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 06:51:03 pm
Taking kids from parents isn't very humane.  They need to pass a new law or something to deal with this.  But if the US wishes to prosecute illegal migrants who willfully break the law and enter the country illegally, they currently don't have a choice as far as I see in the legal precedents but to separate them.  So it needs to change, and IMO the Trump admin should delay separations in most cases unless the child can stay with family or another parents in the US.  But if Trump stopped this right now, he couldn't prosecute.

What needs to be clear though is that these people are also breaking the law, and doing so willfully.  They aren't victims in that sense, but the kids are paying for the parents' lawbreaking and Trump admin very strictly enforcing the law.  Remember, when police arrest any US citizen in the US, including single parents, the children don't go into jail and stay with the parent either, the children are separated from the parent and stay with other family or guardians.  Is it any more cruel in those cases?  At the very least in most cases I'd hope they get lots of visitation rights with their kids.

At this point every migrant in latin america should have heard about this story and policy by now.  At this point the parent is at least equally to blame if their child is separated from them because they chose to break the law knowing full well the policies.

Except they certainly do have a choice. There is no law, contrary to the clap trap you hear from Trump, that requires children to be separated from their parents while they are being processed. Even if that process ends with their deportation. I don't know how many **** times that has to be explained for people to understand it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 19, 2018, 07:00:21 pm
The US government is arresting and detaining people who have not broken any laws. Again, it is not illegal to ask for asylum. Civilized countries put these people up and treat them humanely while they process their claims. If they're rejected then they're sent back. People need to really start to pay attention to these narratives. Asylum seekers are not criminals. They are literally applicants.

Asylum seekers with legit cases who want to claim/apply for asylum go to legal ports of entry to claim asylum.  That's how it's done.  Mexicans et al. who don't have any legit case and simply are coming for economic reasons etc. know they'll be denied entry so they obviously won't go to an enforced legal port of entry, they try to sneak into the country illegally in order to stay and will never claim asylum.  Similarly, people drive or fly in and stay on visitor visas, then they simply don't catch their flight back and disappear inside the US.  These people are all criminals.

Half a million apprehensions of unauthorized immigrants happened in 2016, about 400,000 happening at the southwest border.  They're often caught, deported, and can try again because there's no punishment/deterrent (taking your kids away isn't an ethical deterrent).  You think these are refugees?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 07:09:20 pm
Trump caught in more lies: he says ~3% of immigrants processed and ordered to return within a certain time frame actually return. Actual #'s show it's around 75% Trump says we now have "thousands and thousands if border judges. Actual #'s, just over 300. How the **** does he get away with this **** continuously I have to wonder?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 19, 2018, 07:10:38 pm
The laws that do exist, in regards to overstaying a visa, or entering the country illegally are misdemeanors.

This true, but doing so more than once becomes punishable as a felony.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 07:20:01 pm
This true, but doing so more than once becomes punishable as a felony.

They're actually all MS13 members right. But you already knew that because Trump told you and you believe whatever he tells you right?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 19, 2018, 08:27:57 pm
They're actually all MS13 members right. But you already knew that because Trump told you and you believe whatever he tells you right?

I always believe politicians.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 08:33:24 pm
Even a right winger like Alan Dershowitz is coming down hard against Trump.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/392749-dershowitz-to-trump-end-policy-separating-immigrant-families-at
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 19, 2018, 09:03:36 pm
If this is really happening it's almost unconscionable.  Babies and toddlers in state care while they try to find other family members to take care of them?

https://apnews.com/dc0c9a5134d14862ba7c7ad9a811160e

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 19, 2018, 09:20:23 pm
It’s incredible the lengths people will go to in order to justify ripping children from their parents and locking them in cages.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 19, 2018, 09:42:11 pm
It’s incredible the lengths people will go to in order to justify ripping children from their parents and locking them in cages.

True, in the end everyone is responsible for what they do. Even if people are entering illegally, it is Trump and his minions who are separating kids from their families and putting them in camps. They can try an blame it on whomever they want but it is they who are doing it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 19, 2018, 09:42:58 pm
This has turned into a battle between Trump/GOP and Democrats on who can turn out looking like the "bad guy".  Trump keeps separating kids while trying to get a bill passed to not separate them, well he's the bad guy.  Democrats refuse to vote for any bill to stop separation, oh well now they're the bad guy. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 19, 2018, 09:45:27 pm
This has turned into a battle between Trump/GOP and Democrats on who can turn out looking like the "bad guy".  Trump keeps separating kids while trying to get a bill passed to not separate them, well he's the bad guy.  Democrats refuse to vote for any bill to stop separation, oh well now they're the bad guy.

Trump doesn't need a bill to stop it, he needs a bill to build his wall.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 09:46:59 pm
This has turned into a battle between Trump/GOP and Democrats on who can turn out looking like the "bad guy".  Trump keeps separating kids while trying to get a bill passed to not separate them, well he's the bad guy.  Democrats refuse to vote for any bill to stop separation, oh well now they're the bad guy.

Once again...there is no new bill required to stop the separation. Trump can do it right now, with a phone call.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 19, 2018, 10:04:19 pm
Once again...there is no new bill required to stop the separation. Trump can do it right now, with a phone call.

Well it can happen either way, and neither side wants to blink.

Do they never punish anyone trying to sneak in illegally?  What about 1 in every 10,000 cases of kids with parents?  What happens in that 1 case, with someone who has tried to enter illegally for the 5th time?  Let them go again to break the law again?

Do they just keep deporting them and then they just keep trying to sneak in again and again until they get in, like a big revolving door of catch and deport?  400,000 apprehensions of illegal border crossers at the southwest border every year, how do they stop that?  That's the big question.  Trump wants a physical barrier extension and prosecutions, what's the right answer?

I wonder if Trump will just keep separating them so they force the Democrats to pass something amid the pressure.  Meanwhile kids are being used by both sides as chess pieces. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2018, 10:09:31 pm
Well it can happen either way, and neither side wants to blink.

Do they never punish anyone trying to sneak in illegally?  What about 1 in every 10,000 cases of kids with parents?  What happens in that 1 case, with someone who has tried to enter illegally for the 5th time?  Let them go again to break the law again?

Do they just keep deporting them and then they just keep trying to sneak in again and again until they get in, like a big revolving door of catch and deport?  400,000 apprehensions of illegal border crossers at the southwest border every year, how do they stop that?  That's the big question.  Trump wants a physical barrier extension and prosecutions, what's the right answer?

I wonder if Trump will just keep separating them so they force the Democrats to pass something amid the pressure.  Meanwhile kids are being used by both sides as chess pieces.

No, kids are being used by Trump's side as chess pieces. He's the one responsible for the kids being put in concentration camps.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2018, 12:37:38 am
Just watched a segment of fox news. Hannity and Giuliani. If I couldn't see the Fox news logo thingy up in the corner I could have as easily thought I was watching a segment of SNL. They made jokes of themselves as good as any comedy crew could have.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 20, 2018, 06:44:40 am
  What happens in that 1 case, with someone who has tried to enter illegally for the 5th time?  Let them go again to break the law again?

Yes, why not ?  Is that problem worth tearing the country apart and making it an international pariah ? 

People 100% definitely DO pile-on to the Trump administration but he invites it.  I can't wait until he's gone.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 20, 2018, 08:58:04 am
True, in the end everyone is responsible for what they do. Even if people are entering illegally, it is Trump and his minions who are separating kids from their families and putting them in camps cages. They can try an blame it on whomever they want but it is they who are doing it.
FTFY
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 20, 2018, 08:59:41 am
Well it can happen either way, and neither side wants to blink.
How is it about sides if it can happen with a phone call?

The logic you're employing here is this:

"I don't want to beat the children, but you make me beat them with how you're acting."

This is what an abusive husband says to his wife.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 20, 2018, 09:04:11 am
What happens in that 1 case, with someone who has tried to enter illegally for the 5th time?  Let them go again to break the law again?
I don't know how close to the border you live, but decades ago people would cross back and forth all the time on the ice that formed on the Detroit River.

Remember when those Americans illegally floated into Canada (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/24/drunk-americans-illegally-float-into-canada/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ef5306ddfd83)?

Perhaps we should have taken their children from them and incarcerated them without a trial or due process until we eventually "figure out" what their situation is, if and when we get to it. Especially considering how insanely violent America is. They were certainly a threat to national security. We couldn't be sure whether or not they would go shoot up one of our schools.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 20, 2018, 09:08:47 am
Further still, the Republicans are grooming more terrorism against the United States:

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/8sgybr/arnold_schwarzenegger_says_politicians_not_kids/e0ze0ha/

"Imagine some of your earliest memories being held in a cage by people who refused to tell you where your parents were or when you would see them again. Imagine being later sent back to where your family came from, but now penniless. Or worse, you get sent back but you never find your parents because the people who took them didn't have any plan to reunite families before deportation. Or they do make it back and then fall victim to the violence they were fleeing in the first place. Imagine that when you get older you ask what had happened when you were young and all your family can tell you is "we thought that country was a free country. We thought those people would help us. But we were wrong." Imagine you get older still and now you start to understand the violence in your home country. You start to understand the drugs and who is buying them, and the guns and who is selling them. Imagine still hearing white foreigners call you an animal or a criminal, then call themselves the greatest, most free country on earth, but you remember what they did to you.

Republicans have bought 100 years of hatred for America. It's almost like they said that there were terrorists and criminals coming over our southern border and then set out to make it true"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 20, 2018, 10:11:33 am
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-is-really-behind-trumps-controversial-immigration-policies/

FiveThirtyEight believes that Trump is trying to counter growth in Democrat-friendly populations.

Quote
If you think of stopping the growth in the foreign-born population as the unifying goal — rather than strengthening national security or promoting law enforcement — then Trump’s immigration agenda hangs together more clearly. The steps taken or proposed by the administration, such as ending DACA and sharply curtailing refugee admissions, are likely to result in: some foreign-born people currently in the U.S. being forced to return to their home countries, including highly skilled tech workers; those who remain here having a harder time helping relatives come to the country; fewer refugees ever entering in the first place; and some immigrants who got citizenship having it revoked.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2018, 11:05:53 am
I guess the backlash is getting to Trump who now is tweeting that he may be about to sign something to end his family separation policy. Of course for the last few days Trump has been saying he couldn't do anything about it. Catching him in his lies is becoming so blatantly easy I fear people will simply shrug and let him continue to get away with it. The parallels to 30's Germany continue to appear.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 20, 2018, 11:41:10 am
Look.  I don't think you can/should compare things to Nazis constantly as it doesn't resonate with people.

That said, this shows that humans can be conditioned into a state where they will allow things to get worse.  We should all work towards having demarkation of significant events along the slippery slope.

Clearly GW and Laura Bush warning against the current presidency isn't enough to make people wake up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 20, 2018, 11:47:35 am
Apathy is at least as responsible as populism when it comes to people like Trump expanding their powers. The people who didn't vote are just as responsible for him being in office as those who voted for him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 20, 2018, 11:51:20 am
I guess it's just about turning up the noise to get to them...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 20, 2018, 12:04:22 pm
No, kids are being used by Trump's side as chess pieces. He's the one responsible for the kids being put in concentration camps.

Is world just black and white to you?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2018, 12:10:30 pm
Is world just black and white to you?

Is that an indication that you are unaware of Trump's authority with regard to this issue?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on June 20, 2018, 12:18:22 pm
Is world just black and white to you?

The choice to simply engage in wholesale separation of kids from their parents was the Republican's because they are in charge.  Other adminstrations, facing the same issue, used other methods specifically to avoid separating kids from parents while they processed the parents.  When other, more humane options are available then attempts to justify this choice because the "parents are illegalls" or to claim its "someone else's fault" or to falsely claim that "someone else did exactly the same thing", then it becomes clearer that yes, it is a black and white choice between morality and immorality.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2018, 12:26:41 pm
Especially when he uses child separation in a way so convoluted as only the likes of Trump could come up with to attempt to leverage congress to come up with funding for his wall along with other immigration bills.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 20, 2018, 12:28:30 pm
...attempts to justify this choice because the "parents are illegalls" or to claim its "someone else's fault" or to falsely claim that "someone else did exactly the same thing", then it becomes clearer that yes, it is a black and white choice between morality and immorality.

There is no one to call out lies, either in the media or within parties.  The Democrats now must follow game theory and start lying ABSOLUTELY, with CNN supporting them in lockstep.  That is how it works.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2018, 12:35:14 pm
There is no one to call out lies, either in the media or within parties.  The Democrats now must follow game theory and start lying ABSOLUTELY, with CNN supporting them in lockstep.  That is how it works.

Why would the Dems. need to come out lying on this issue when Trump has already completely boxed himself into a corner?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 20, 2018, 12:45:04 pm
Why would the Dems. need to come out lying on this issue when Trump has already completely boxed himself into a corner?

I am not saying on this issue.  I'm saying as a general tactic they will now need to add straight out lies to their toolbox.  It's the Prisoners Dilemma.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2018, 01:05:52 pm
I am not saying on this issue.  I'm saying as a general tactic they will now need to add straight out lies to their toolbox.  It's the Prisoners Dilemma.

I wouldn't say that applies at all. The Dems. have the high road here and they would be much smarter to try and stay on it rather than following Trump's lead.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 20, 2018, 01:23:36 pm
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2018/06/20/us-homeland-security-drafting-plan-to-end-family-separation-but-unclear-if-trump-will-support.html

Wonder how he will spin the fact he was full of it when he said he couldn't do anything.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 20, 2018, 01:23:45 pm
I wouldn't say that applies at all. The Dems. have the high road here and they would be much smarter to try and stay on it rather than following Trump's lead.

Why is it that people DON'T lie ?  Not because they are honest, although that is a secondary reason.  It's because there are consequences if you get caught.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 20, 2018, 01:28:58 pm
Yes, why not ?  Is that problem worth tearing the country apart and making it an international pariah ? 

People 100% definitely DO pile-on to the Trump administration but he invites it.  I can't wait until he's gone.

Trump is the result of a "democratic" system that is rotten and corrupt to its core, and people don't know how to fix it, so they feel they have to elect someone who will turn the system on its head.  Voters don't like the rules of the game being played so they elect to push the entire card table over.  People are desperate for change.  Obama was elected on change, so was Trump.  People hated Wynne, they chose Doug Ford rather than more of the same with Horwath, even though most know Doug Ford is a tool, but a tool who will put the system in reverse because the present course isn't an option they want.

Populism gets a bad rap because of Trump, but Trump isn't "populism" because many people still don't like what he's doing because he acts like an ass and his approval ratings quickly dove after the election.  Populism is democracy, populism is doing what the people want rather than what elites think is best for the people or what's best for corporations & lobbies that fund these elites.

I think most people want a leader who is competent, not too ideological (either too rightwing or leftwing), and ethical.  That's why John Tory is popular, he just gets good sh!t done and isn't too controversial.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 20, 2018, 01:36:57 pm
Trump is the result of a "democratic" system that is rotten and corrupt to its core, and people don't know how to fix it, so they feel they have to elect someone who will turn the system on its head.

The big problem I have with that sentence is you seem to say that the people who elected trump realize that democracy itself has problems.  I don't think so.  I think they have a vague idea of turning back the clock, at best.

Quote
  Voters don't like the rules of the game being played so they elect to push the entire card table over.  People are desperate for change.  Obama was elected on change, so was Trump.  People hated Wynne, they chose Doug Ford rather than more of the same with Horwath, even though most know Doug Ford is a tool, but a tool who will put the system in reverse because the present course isn't an option they want.

Change for what ?  They simply want more money, more vacation time, more... What do they want ?  I can only come up with:

- more wealth
- more unity and cohesion, ie. less fighting, fewer identity politics etc.

And of course no election will really solve those problems, at least enough to satisfy the gaping puss of populism.

Quote
Populism gets a bad rap because of Trump, but Trump isn't "populism" because many people still don't like what he's doing because he acts like an ass and his approval ratings quickly dove after the election.  Populism is democracy, populism is doing what the people want rather than what elites think is best for the people or what's best for corporations & lobbies that fund these elites.

Well, is he at least RELATED to populism ?  Certainly a career non-politician/pitchman who says unsavory things is a populist.

Quote
I think most people want a leader who is competent, not too ideological (either too rightwing or leftwing), and ethical.  That's why John Tory is popular, he just gets good sh!t done and isn't too controversial.

I think so, but I also think that you can get a leg-up at the start by being an unsavory ****.  People don't realize that a firebrand socialist along the lines of Sanders is just around the corner.  This is why the 'left' was successful in mid-20th century America - they articulated a clear vision to GIVE PEOPLE THINGS.

In fact, that is what Trump did also with Healthcare but he lied through his teeth. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 20, 2018, 01:40:34 pm
This post came up in my newsfeed:

Quote
Have you heard that children were separated from their parents under Obama & Clinton? Then, you need a little Facts vs Myths lesson. Michelle Martin, PhD Cal State Fullerton summed up the most important FACTS:

There is so much misinformation out there about the Trump administration's new "zero tolerance" policy that requires criminal prosecution, which then warrants the separating of parents and children at the border. Before responding to a post defending this policy, please do your research...As a professor at a local Cal State, I research and write about these issues, so here, I'll make it easier for you:

Myth: This is not a new policy and was practiced under Obama and Clinton - FALSE. The policy to separate parents and children is new and was instituted on 4/6/2018. It was the brainchild of John Kelly and Stephen Miller to serve as a deterrent for undocumented immigration, approved by Trump, and adopted by Sessions. Prior administrations detained migrant families, but didn’t have a practice of forcibly separating parents from their children unless the adults were deemed unfit. https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1049751/download?utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery

Myth: This is the only way to deter undocumented immigration - FALSE. Annual trends show that arrests for undocumented entry are at a 46 year low, and undocumented crossings dropped in 2007, with a net loss (more people leaving than arriving). Deportations have increased steadily though (spiking in 1996 and more recently), because several laws that were passed since 1996 have made it legally more difficult to gain legal status for people already here, and thus increased their deportations (I address this later under the myth that it's the Democrats' fault). What we mostly have now are people crossing the border illegally because they've already been hired by a US company, or because they are seeking political asylum. Economic migrants come to this country because our country has kept the demand going. But again, many of these people impacted by Trump's "zero tolerance" policy appear to be political asylum-seekers. https://www.npr.org/2017/12/05/568546381/arrests-for-illegal-border-crossings-hit-46-year-low

Myth: Most of the people coming across the border are just trying to take advantage of our country by taking our jobs - FALSE. Most of the parents who have been impacted by Trump's "zero tolerance" policy have presented themselves as political asylum-seekers at a U.S. port-of-entry, from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. Rather than processing their claims, they have been taken into custody on the spot and had their children ripped from their arms. The ACLU alleges that this practice violates the Asylum Act, and the UN asserts that it violates the UN Treaty on the State of Refugees, one of the few treaties the US has ratified.  This is an illegal act on the part of the United States government, not to mention morally and ethically reprehensible. https://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/21/us/meatpackers-profits-hinge-on-pool-of-immigrant-labor.html

Myth: We're a country that respects the Rule of Law, and if people break the law, this is what they get - FALSE. We are a country that has an above-ground system of immigration and an underground system. Our government (under both parties) has always been aware that US companies recruit workers in the poorest parts of Mexico for cheap labor, and ICE (and its predecessor INS) has looked the other way because this underground economy benefits our country to the tune of billions of dollars annually. Thus, even though the majority of people crossing the border now are asylum-seekers, those who are economic migrants (migrant workers) likely have been recruited here to do jobs Americans will not do. https://www.upi.com/Top_News/Opinion/2016/10/26/Donald-Trumps-wall-ignores-the-economic-logic-of-undocumented-immigrant-labor/2621477498203/

Myth: The children have to be separated from their parents because there parents must be arrested and it would be cruel to put children in jail with their parents - FALSE. First, in the case of economic migrants crossing the border illegally, criminal prosecution has not been the legal norm, and families have been kept together at all cost. Also, crossing the border without documentation is a typically a misdemeanor not requiring arrest, but rather a civil proceeding.  Additionally, parents who have been detained have historically been detained with their children in ICE "family residential centers," again, for civil processing. The Trump administration's shift in policy is for political purposes only, not legal ones. See p. 18: https://www.aclu.org/legal-document/ms-l-v-ice-plaintiffs-opposition-defendants-motion-dismiss-doc-56

Myth: We have rampant fraud in our asylum process the proof of which is the significant increase we have in the number of people applying for asylum. FALSE. The increase in asylum seekers is a direct result of the increase in civil conflict and violence across the globe. While some people may believe that we shouldn't allow any refugees into our country because "it's not our problem," neither our current asylum law, nor our ideological foundation as a country support such an isolationist approach.  There is very little evidence to support Sessions' claim that abuse of our asylum-seeking policies is rampant. Also, what Sessions failed to mention is that the majority of asylum seekers are from China, not South of the border. Here is a very fair and balanced assessment of his statements: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/oct/19/jeff-sessions/jeff-sessions-claim-about-asylum-system-fraudulent/

Myth: The Democrats caused this, "it's their law." FALSE. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats caused this, the Trump administration did (although the Republicans could fix this today, and have refused). I believe what this myth refers to is the passage of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, which were both passed under Clinton in 1996. These laws essentially made unauthorized entry into the US a crime (typically a misdemeanor for first-time offenders), but under both Republicans and Democrats, these cases were handled through civil deportation proceedings, not a criminal proceeding, which did not require separation. And again, even in cases where detainment was required, families were always kept together in family residential centers, unless the parents were deemed unfit (as mentioned above). Thus, Trump's assertion that he hates this policy but has no choice but to separate the parents from their children, because the Democrats "gave us this law" is false and nothing more than propaganda designed to compel negotiation on bad policy. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-democrats-us-border-migrant-families-children-parents-mexico-separate-a8401521.html

Myth: The parents and children will be reunited shortly, once the parents' court cases are finalized. FALSE. Criminal court is a vastly different beast than civil court proceedings. Also, the children are being processed as unaccompanied minors ("unaccompanied alien children"), which typically means they are sent into the custody of the Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR), which is part of the Department of Health and Human Services (DHS). Under normal circumstances when a child enters the country without his or her parent, ORR attempts to locate a family member within a few weeks, and the child is then released to a family member, or if a family member cannot be located, the child is placed in a residential center (anywhere in the country), or in some cases, foster care. Prior to Trump's new policy, ORR was operating at 95% capacity, and they simply cannot effectively manage the influx of 2000+ children, some as young as 4 months. Also, keep in mind, these are not unaccompanied minor children, they have parents. There is great legal ambiguity on how and even whether the parents will get their children back because we are in uncharted territory right now. According to the ACLU lawsuit (see below), there is currently no easy vehicle for reuniting parents with their children. Additionally, according to a May 2018 report, numerous cases of verbal, physical and sexual abuse were found to have occurred in these residential centers. https://www.aclu.org/news/aclu-obtains-documents-showing-widespread-abuse-child-immigrants-us-custody

Myth: This policy is legal. LIKELY FALSE. The ACLU filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration on 5/6/18, and a recent court ruling denied the government's motion to dismiss the suit. The judge deciding the case stated that the Trump Administration policy is "brutal, offensive, and fails to comport with traditional notions of fair play and decency." The case is moving forward because it was deemed to have legal merit. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-07/aclu-suit-over-child-separations-at-border-may-proceed-judge
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 20, 2018, 02:31:28 pm
This post came up in my newsfeed:

Thanks cyber.  I think what you and I and others most want is to get to bottom of the facts in all this, because it's a pretty complex issue.  Now, just because this person is a Phd doesn't mean her facts are facts, instead of an "appeal to authority" (i'm a Phd therefore I'm correct), I want facts with links.  She provided some links, but we need links for every claim she made.

Quote
Most of the parents who have been impacted by Trump's "zero tolerance" policy have presented themselves as political asylum-seekers at a U.S. port-of-entry, from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. Rather than processing their claims, they have been taken into custody on the spot and had their children ripped from their arms

Can we find a link to show these people have presented themselves at legal ports of entry?  Why would you prosecute someone who didn't break a law?

Besides this, what I've found is that from the NYT "fact-check" which seems correct based on other sources I've read:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/14/us/politics/fact-check-republicans-family-separations-border.html

Quote
Ms. Sanders, Mr. Ryan and Mr. Grassley are referring to a class-action lawsuit that was initially brought against the Reagan administration, as Flores v. Meese, and settled under the Clinton administration in 1997, as Flores v. Reno.

The Flores settlement required immigration officials to “place each detained minor in the least restrictive setting appropriate” — for example, providing food, water and toilets. The government also agreed to release immigrant children “without unnecessary delay” under an established preference ranking for custody.

After a surge of families from Central America began arriving at the United States’ southwestern border in 2014, the Obama administration opened family detention centers. That prompted more lawsuits, which argued that doing so had breached the Flores settlement by not releasing children swiftly.

In 2016, the Ninth Circuit of Appeals ruled that the Flores settlement “unambiguously applies both to minors who are accompanied and unaccompanied by their parents.” It also overturned a Federal District Court’s decision that the government must also release the parents.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced a “zero tolerance” policy in April, stating that “our goal is to prosecute every case that is brought to us” — thus leading to the detention of migrant parents.
...
Under Flores, the government has three options: releasing families together, passing a law that would allow for family detention or breaking up the families. The Trump administration has so far chosen the third option.

This supported by the AP (probably where they got their info): https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/06/14/us/politics/ap-us-immigration-fact-check.html

And conservative Ben Shapiro at Daily Wire agrees: https://www.dailywire.com/news/31980/media-are-lying-about-trump-separating-illegal-ben-shapiro
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 20, 2018, 02:41:07 pm
An executive order by Trump to not separate kids from family would go against Flores and the other precedents.  What seems to be needed is either: 1. release the parents and the kids as before, or 2. make a new law through congress to overturn the old precedents.

Quote
"After a surge of families from Central America began arriving at the United States’ southwestern border in 2014, the Obama administration opened family detention centers. That prompted more lawsuits, which argued that doing so had breached the Flores settlement by not releasing children swiftly.

In 2016 [during Obama admin], the Ninth Circuit of Appeals ruled that the Flores settlement “unambiguously applies both to minors who are accompanied and unaccompanied by their parents.” It also overturned a Federal District Court’s decision that the government must also release the parents."
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/14/us/politics/fact-check-republicans-family-separations-border.html

So there's groups in 2016 that have said detaining children with their families is unjust because kids shouldn't be detained since they didn't do anything wrong and it's against Flores, and now people are saying that kids shouldn't be separated with their families because it's unjust.  So what's the solution?  If parents are released into the US they may disappear and not appear for their hearing, which happens all the time in US and Canada.  Maybe the solution is to release the parents & kids but put tracking anklets on all of them?  I dunno.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2018, 02:43:58 pm
well Trump has signed something, we don't really know just what the details are yet, but apparently it is supposed to stop the horror show currently under way. Of course his little speech he preceded the signing with was so rife with his usual hypocrisy as he spoke of how he hated to see families torn apart, even though he was the one responsible for doing it. I wonder what if anything is in there for those already in the detention camps.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2018, 02:55:00 pm
An executive order by Trump to not separate kids from family would go against Flores and the other precedents.  What seems to be needed is either: 1. release the parents and the kids as before, or 2. make a new law through congress to overturn the old precedents.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/14/us/politics/fact-check-republicans-family-separations-border.html

So there's groups in 2016 that have said detaining children with their families is unjust because kids shouldn't be detained since they didn't do anything wrong and it's against Flores, and now people are saying that kids shouldn't be separated with their families because it's unjust.  So what's the solution?  If parents are released into the US they may disappear and not appear for their hearing, which happens all the time in US and Canada.  Maybe the solution is to release the parents & kids but put tracking anklets on all of them?  I dunno.

It only goes against Flores if he continues his policy of criminally prosecuting all asylum seekers. and the numbers show that ~75% of the people required to show up for hearings do so.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 20, 2018, 06:32:16 pm
Where did that come from? Do you have a point or are you just trying to help me make mine?

It comes from my being irritated that every time there's some **** out there who shows an autocratic bent people compare him to Hitler and the Nazis. Trump is an **** but he's not Hitler. The Republicans are a bunch of spineless, hypocritical weasels who **** after the donor base but they're not the Nazi party.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 20, 2018, 06:37:55 pm
And if farts smelled like roses, we wouldn't be greeting each other with handshakes. Once again, you radical conservatives like to make up fake scenarios and bullshit to

I was responding to Goddess' suggestion about giving everyone who crossed the border permission to stay and work.

Quote
If you were half as principled as you say you are, you wouldn't be harshly criticizing child concentration camps.

You mean if I was half as intelligent as I am - in other words, if I was you.
Happily, I'm me, and not given to brainless emotionalism that equates an institution ill-prepared to deal with the children of people arrested for crimes with 'concentration camps'.

Or perhaps you could tell me how many children have been gassed thus far, you pathetic weeping moron?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 20, 2018, 06:40:27 pm
Taking kids from parents isn't very humane. 

And yet its been done for decades, in Canada as well as the US. Whenever parents are sent to jail, and there's no one else to take care of the kid, the kid goes into state custody. Given the rising number of single parent families, the number of kids taken into state custody in Canada, the US and other nations because of the imprisonment of parents is in the many tens of thousands.

The real issue here is how no one was prepared for the sudden change in policy which produced an influx of children.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 20, 2018, 06:42:16 pm
If this is really happening it's almost unconscionable.  Babies and toddlers in state care while they try to find other family members to take care of them?

https://apnews.com/dc0c9a5134d14862ba7c7ad9a811160e

Honestly, what do you people think happens every single day when criminals with kids are arrested?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 20, 2018, 06:47:09 pm
Yes, why not ?  Is that problem worth tearing the country apart and making it an international pariah ? 

People 100% definitely DO pile-on to the Trump administration but he invites it.  I can't wait until he's gone.

Maybe we could bring Obama back. Oh wait!

Several former Obama administration officials took to social media and news outlets last month to explain a gallery of years-old photos that showed immigrant children sleeping in shoddy conditions at a government-run holding facility in Arizona.

The images, which the Associated Press first published in 2014, resurfaced recently for reasons that remain unclear, and quickly prompted viral outrage on Twitter. One particularly disturbing image showed two children sleeping on mattresses on the floor inside what appeared to be a cage.


http://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 20, 2018, 06:53:44 pm
It only goes against Flores if he continues his policy of criminally prosecuting all asylum seekers.

That is NOT the policy. The policy is to prosecute those who sneak across the border illegally.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2018, 07:14:46 pm
That is NOT the policy. The policy is to prosecute those who sneak across the border illegally.

That IS (or was) the policy however it seems Trump changed his tune/policy today. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 20, 2018, 07:19:21 pm
That IS (or was) the policy however it seems Trump changed his tune/policy today.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/border-issues/2018/06/06/united-states-mexico-border-arrests-exceed-50000-may-illegal-crossings/679473002/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2018, 07:22:50 pm
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/border-issues/2018/06/06/united-states-mexico-border-arrests-exceed-50000-may-illegal-crossings/679473002/

And that's supposed to tell us what about Trump's executive order?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 20, 2018, 07:38:29 pm
And that's supposed to tell us what about Trump's executive order?

No, it's supposed to tell you that illegal border crossers are being arrested.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2018, 07:49:04 pm
No, it's supposed to tell you that illegal border crossers are being arrested.

I think we all knew that. Trump has sigend an exec. order to stop them criminally prosecuted, which is not required. Try and keep up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2018, 08:07:46 pm
No, it's supposed to tell you that illegal border crossers are being arrested.

I know that certain people have a paranoia as pertains to immigration. If you do a little research you'll find that immigration, especially into the US ebbs and flows over time and right now happens to be a flow time, probably because of the gang violence in the Northern Triangle area of Central America, so xenophobes are nervous. But again if you do some research you'll fing overall immigration has benefited the US, and Canada over time. Things will settle down and we will see an ebb time as usual. In the meantime there is no reason to prosecute everyone who steps over the border illegally so as to take their children from them and wreck a family when you can simply deport them if they have no valid claim to seek asylum. The frothing at the mouth should stop. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 20, 2018, 09:01:29 pm
I think we all knew that.

You didn't. You thought it was asylum seekers being arrested.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 20, 2018, 09:03:11 pm
I know that certain people have a paranoia as pertains to immigration. If you do a little research you'll find that immigration, especially into the US ebbs and flows over time and right now happens to be a flow time, probably because of the gang violence in the Northern Triangle area of Central America, so xenophobes are nervous. But again if you do some research you'll fing overall immigration has benefited the US, and Canada over time. Things will settle down and we will see an ebb time as usual. In the meantime there is no reason to prosecute everyone who steps over the border illegally so as to take their children from them and wreck a family when you can simply deport them if they have no valid claim to seek asylum. The frothing at the mouth should stop.

How many times do you people have to see the examples before you of what refusing to bar illegal immigrants brings you in the way of political parties before you get the **** message and decide that instituting proper immigration controls is somewhat better than having fascists or their dumber cousins, as in the US, taking over the country?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2018, 09:06:00 pm
You didn't. You thought it was asylum seekers being arrested.

You don't think asylum seekers are being arrested? You're further out of touch than usual.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2018, 09:24:08 pm


Here's a little reading

https://www.thenation.com/article/ice-is-sending-a-message-to-the-worlds-asylum-seekers-the-us-is-no-place-of-refuge/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 20, 2018, 09:56:46 pm
It comes from my being irritated that every time there's some **** out there who shows an autocratic bent people compare him to Hitler and the Nazis. Trump is an **** but he's not Hitler. The Republicans are a bunch of spineless, hypocritical weasels who **** after the donor base but they're not the Nazi party.

I don't think people are saying he is Hitler, just that his methods for gaining and expanding his powers are very similar and I don't think he figured them out all by himself. He is wily but not that smart.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2018, 10:14:10 pm
I don't think people are saying he is Hitler, just that his methods for gaining and expanding his powers are very similar and I don't think he figured them out all by himself. He is wily but not that smart.

I think that is correct. It seems if you mention Hitler everybody jumps to visions of the ovens in Auschwitz, and nobody is really suggesting that will happen. It's the similarities between what Hitler did on his rise to power in the early days and things Trump is doing now. Some will call that alarmist, but when you dig into the nitty gritty the propaganda machine Trump is driving is similar.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 20, 2018, 10:26:36 pm
@sirjohn @omni

Ad hominem bullshit needs to stop
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2018, 10:32:38 pm
@sirjohn @omni

Ad hominem bullshit needs to stop

Who died and made you the boss?
We know you had some sway over at the other but we have seen what kind of shythole that place is.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 20, 2018, 10:44:12 pm
Yes and you want the same thing to happen here, clearly.

Why don't you go put a hat on feet first ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2018, 10:54:31 pm
Yes and you want the same thing to happen here, clearly.

Why don't you go put a hat on feet first ?

Nope on both.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 20, 2018, 10:55:18 pm
Nope on both.

Why don't you go make love to a tennis shoe ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2018, 11:00:37 pm
Why don't you go make love to a tennis shoe ?

Are we now seeing the real MH?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 20, 2018, 11:02:56 pm
Are we now seeing the real MH?

How many raspberries you own ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2018, 11:09:30 pm
How many raspberries you own ?

Not a one I'm afraid.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on June 21, 2018, 08:22:46 am
Cool it
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 21, 2018, 11:22:22 am
This ought to be interesting, Malania Trump has gone down to the border in Texas to visit a child detention center there. Apparently she was one source of pressure on the Donald to convince him to end his policy. I await her comments after her visit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 21, 2018, 12:02:28 pm
Apparently your xenophobia has overcome any good sense yet again.

What's my alleged xenophobia got to do with anything? You've been saying that asylum seekers are the ones being arrested. I pointed out it was illegal border jumpers being arrested and you said "well everyone knows that" then went right back to arguing it was asylum seekers being arrested.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 21, 2018, 12:03:48 pm
I don't think people are saying he is Hitler, just that his methods for gaining and expanding his powers are very similar and I don't think he figured them out all by himself. He is wily but not that smart.

He is neither wily nor smart. He is just a greasy, dishonest sales guy who will tell you whatever he thinks will make his sale. That's all he's EVER been and all he's ever done.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 21, 2018, 12:05:46 pm
This ought to be interesting, Malania Trump has gone down to the border in Texas to visit a child detention center there. Apparently she was one source of pressure on the Donald to convince him to end his policy. I await her comments after her visit.

I wonder why Michelle Obama never went down to visit child detention centres? Gee, maybe because it didn't become a 'thing' for progressives back then?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 21, 2018, 12:15:00 pm
What's my alleged xenophobia got to do with anything? You've been saying that asylum seekers are the ones being arrested. I pointed out it was illegal border jumpers being arrested and you said "well everyone knows that" then went right back to arguing it was asylum seekers being arrested.

That's because many are asylum seekers, even if they cross the border illegally. The separation policy is that of Trump's. Sessions put in place in April. Got it?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 21, 2018, 12:18:33 pm
I wonder why Michelle Obama never went down to visit child detention centres? Gee, maybe because it didn't become a 'thing' for progressives back then?

Naw, it's obviously an attempt to try and gloss over the real hardships the zero tolerance policy has created by choosing the center she did to visit. All those children she is seeing are unaccompanied minors who crossed the border alone, not people ripped from their parents arms.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 21, 2018, 12:20:52 pm
That's because many are asylum seekers, even if they cross the border illegally. The separation policy is that of Trump's. Sessions put in place in April. Got it?

Why would legitimate asylum seekers pay coyotes to sneak them over fences when they can apply at any border crossing?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 21, 2018, 12:33:29 pm
Why would legitimate asylum seekers pay coyotes to sneak them over fences when they can apply at any border crossing?

Because many legitimate asylum seekers are either refused at a port of entry or are being physically prevented from setting foot on US soil so they can legitimately seek asylum. Perhaps if you'd ever been to Honduras or El Salvador you'd understand why people are willing to take the chance.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 21, 2018, 12:42:40 pm
Because many legitimate asylum seekers are either refused at a port of entry or are being physically prevented from setting foot on US soil so they can legitimately seek asylum. Perhaps if you'd ever been to Honduras or El Salvador you'd understand why people are willing to take the chance.

Do I have to once again post the UN definition of a refugee to point out that poverty and crime do not a refugee make? If you're not a real refugee then naturally you try to skip past the border. But that makes you a migrant, not a refugee.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 21, 2018, 12:49:26 pm
Do I have to once again post the UN definition of a refugee to point out that poverty and crime do not a refugee make? If you're not a real refugee then naturally you try to skip past the border. But that makes you a migrant, not a refugee.

Need I point out once again that valid fear of crime does an asylum seeker make.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 21, 2018, 01:26:55 pm
Need I point out once again that valid fear of crime does an asylum seeker make.

Cite? Fear of crime is not in either Canada's or the UN's definition of a refugee.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 21, 2018, 01:34:51 pm
Cite? Fear of crime is not in either Canada's or the UN's definition of a refugee.

Then I would suggest you look up "asylum seeker" since that's what we were talking about.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on June 21, 2018, 01:38:18 pm
Cite? Fear of crime is not in either Canada's or the UN's definition of a refugee.

UN definition of refugee:
Quote
A refugee is someone who has been forced to flee his or her country because of persecution, war, or violence.

Both "persecution" and "violence" implies crime,  and especially the term "violence".  Violence between individuals is considered a crime in most countries.  So if a person fears that they will be subject to persecution or violence, then it follows that they fear being a victim in a crime. 

I suppose you are thinking that if an individual is complicit in violence in their home country, then of course they are not a 'refugee' in the sense of an innocent person under threat from criminal violence or persecution.   I'd probably agree with you, but unlike you I do not assume that the mere fact of someone coming from a crime-rich area is consequently merely running from crime and not under direct threat.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 21, 2018, 01:48:32 pm
Cite? Fear of crime is not in either Canada's or the UN's definition of a refugee.

OK, correct. It's "fear of persecution". And that in many of the countries from which asylum/refugee seekers are fleeing is caused by the influx of criminal activity. Got it now?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 21, 2018, 01:55:18 pm
I expect there will be another tweet storm from Trump when he sees the current Time cover photo.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/21/us/time-immigration-cover-june-magazine-trnd/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on June 21, 2018, 02:04:24 pm
Who died and made you the boss?

No one died, but he's right in this case.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 21, 2018, 02:10:08 pm
UN definition of refugee:

You mean 'partial definition', don't you? The actual definition is this:

"A person who owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it."

Fear of crime is NOT in there.

You cannot expand the definition to encompass everyone who is living in a shitty country without throwing the doors wide to much of the world.  It doesn't even apply to people from war-torn countries unless they're members of a particular ethnic or social group that is being singled out for that reason, ie, Christians in Iraq or Syria.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 21, 2018, 02:13:43 pm
You mean 'partial definition', don't you? The actual definition is this:

"A person who owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it."

Fear of crime is NOT in there.

You cannot expand the definition to encompass everyone who is living in a shitty country without throwing the doors wide to much of the world.  It doesn't even apply to people from war-torn countries unless they're members of a particular ethnic or social group that is being singled out for that reason, ie, Christians in Iraq or Syria.

Fear of persecution certainly is in there, and if applies to both immigrant and asylum seekers except the former apply from outside the country, the latter must be on, in this case, US soil.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 21, 2018, 04:28:24 pm
And ideas on why Malania wore the jacket she did on this visit to the border detention center? In case you haven't heard yet on the back of the jacket in big letters it said "I really don't care, do you?"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on June 21, 2018, 04:59:22 pm
And ideas on why Malania wore the jacket she did on this visit to the border detention center? In case you haven't heard yet on the back of the jacket in big letters it said "I really don't care, do you?"

Whaaaa????
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on June 21, 2018, 05:02:16 pm
Wow.  You're right.  She did.

Who is her dresser?  I can't believe they let her do that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on June 21, 2018, 05:07:35 pm
Wow.  You're right.  She did.

Who is her dresser?  I can't believe they let her do that.

It looks like it was spray-painted on.  Maybe it's a cry for help?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on June 21, 2018, 05:13:22 pm
It looks like it was spray-painted on.  Maybe it's a cry for help?

It's apparently sold at Zara for $39.

Thrifty shopping is not really her style......which is why I wonder if it was done on purpose.....

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/melania-trump-wear-jacket-visiting-children-separated-families/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on June 21, 2018, 05:17:52 pm
It's apparently sold at Zara for $39.

Thrifty shopping is not really her style......which is why I wonder if it was done on purpose.....

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/melania-trump-wear-jacket-visiting-children-separated-families/

Looking forward till the day she can write a tell-all book. 

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on June 21, 2018, 05:27:09 pm
Looking forward till the day she can write a tell-all book.

I'm guessing that was covered in the pre-nup..... :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on June 21, 2018, 05:42:06 pm
She probably passed by 100 staffers and not one of them said, "Maybe a different coat today?"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on June 21, 2018, 05:48:15 pm
I'm guessing that was covered in the pre-nup..... :D

I'm guessing she'll outlive him by a considerable margin.   :)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on June 21, 2018, 05:50:03 pm
She probably passed by 100 staffers and not one of them said, "Maybe a different coat today?"

Maybe she's as unwilling as Trump to hear any sort of criticism?  Or maybe she and all her staffers are 'deep state'?  Or maybe it was just a big joke by Trump that she's going along with.  We'll probably never know.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on June 21, 2018, 05:55:10 pm
Whatever it is, it was an odd choice.   :-\
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 21, 2018, 06:06:39 pm
And ideas on why Malania wore the jacket she did on this visit to the border detention center? In case you haven't heard yet on the back of the jacket in big letters it said "I really don't care, do you?"

I'm curious where you came to the conclusion that she wore this jacket to a refugee detention center...?  Are you exaggerating the situation to make a point, or just regurgitating what some faux outrage lefty blogger wrote? 

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 21, 2018, 06:20:05 pm
I'm curious where you came to the conclusion that she wore this jacket to a refugee detention center...?  Are you exaggerating the situation to make a point, or just regurgitating what some faux outrage lefty blogger wrote?

She didn't, she wore it onto the aircraft but changed before she went to visit the centre. Still, an odd choice for wardrobe considering what's going on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 21, 2018, 07:48:58 pm
I'm curious where you came to the conclusion that she wore this jacket to a refugee detention center...?  Are you exaggerating the situation to make a point, or just regurgitating what some faux outrage lefty blogger wrote?

Surely you've seen the pictures by now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 21, 2018, 08:24:49 pm
Fear of persecution certainly is in there, and if applies to both immigrant and asylum seekers except the former apply from outside the country, the latter must be on, in this case, US soil.

You are behaving EXACTLY like those 2nd amendment loons who recite one part of the amendment and then ignore the other.

Fear of persecution... and then you leave out the list "DUE TO..."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 21, 2018, 08:34:56 pm
You are behaving EXACTLY like those 2nd amendment loons who recite one part of the amendment and then ignore the other.

Fear of persecution... and then you leave out the list "DUE TO..."

You are behaving like those loons who don't either read well or comprehend well. So let's take a look at the first word in the list after DUE TO:
That word is RACE. So therefore , if you were being persecuted due to the color of your skin, you would/could qualify for refugee/asylum status, depending on where you are when you apply for it. It's been explained a number of times but you still don't seem to get it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 21, 2018, 08:44:53 pm
You are behaving like those loons who don't either read well or comprehend well. So let's take a look at the first word in the list after DUE TO:
That word is RACE. So therefore , if you were being persecuted due to the color of your skin, you would/could qualify for refugee/asylum status, depending on where you are when you apply for it.

Yes. But the Syrians were not persecuted because of their race, nor the Haitians, nor people from the DM, nor Mexicans.
So I'm kind of confused why you would point out the obvious and then ignore where it leads.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 21, 2018, 08:46:22 pm
She didn't, she wore it onto the aircraft but changed before she went to visit the centre. Still, an odd choice for wardrobe considering what's going on.

Yes she did change jackets before she went to the center but of course I'm sure it was not a huge intellectual decision to know to do that. We don't really know what the purpose of that jacket was, and who knows, maybe we who really cares. I do give her kudos for going down there, but it was a glossy picture and let's see if it does have any effect. Apparently Trump's little exec. order may not have much more effect than simply to give him a photo op trying to convince people anything will change.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 21, 2018, 08:50:57 pm
Yes. But the Syrians were not persecuted because of their race, nor the Haitians, nor people from the DM, nor Mexicans.
So I'm kind of confused why you would point out the obvious and then ignore where it leads.

OK, so then I will take you down to the bottom of the page which reads: Political Opinion
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 21, 2018, 11:13:41 pm
So Donald now says that his wife's 'I Don't Care Do U" coat was somehow a comment pointed toward what he calls the "fake media". Does anybody not yet get what a moron this **** is?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 22, 2018, 10:53:48 am
OK, so then I will take you down to the bottom of the page which reads: Political Opinion

So it is your OPINION that anyone who comes from a  bad place should be given refugee status, vs the reality and facts which are that they don't qualify under UN or Canadian or US definitions.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 22, 2018, 10:55:07 am
I expect there will be another tweet storm from Trump when he sees the current Time cover photo.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/21/us/time-immigration-cover-june-magazine-trnd/index.html

Given the kid actually was NOT separated from her mother, I suppose so. And its pretty odd her mother left her husband and three other kids back at home.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44578339
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 22, 2018, 11:16:28 am
So it is your OPINION that anyone who comes from a  bad place should be given refugee status, vs the reality and facts which are that they don't qualify under UN or Canadian or US definitions.

My opinion is that people should be allowed to go through the established process to determine the validity of their refugee/asylum claim without taking their children from them. If their claim is determined to not be valid, then they are sent home. Not so hard to understand is it?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 22, 2018, 11:21:39 am
Given the kid actually was NOT separated from her mother, I suppose so. And its pretty odd her mother left her husband and three other kids back at home.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44578339

The cover photo is symbolic of the ~2300 kids who HAVE been separated from their parents. Is that a bit too nuanced for you?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/21/politics/migrant-family-separation-what-next/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 22, 2018, 12:22:44 pm
My opinion is that people should be allowed to go through the established process to determine the validity of their refugee/asylum claim without taking their children from them. If their claim is determined to not be valid, then they are sent home. Not so hard to understand is it?

Most people believe that a person who jumps the border and runs for it likely has no legitimate claim, and that people breaking the law ought to be prosecuted regardless of whether they have children. The actual solution here is, I suppose, the one Trump wants; to build a wall to keep these people - and their kids - from ever getting across the border.

Btw, should other criminals also not be separated from their children? Should children be sent to live in prison with their mothers and fathers?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 22, 2018, 12:23:52 pm
The cover photo is symbolic of the ~2300 kids who HAVE been separated from their parents. Is that a bit too nuanced for you?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/21/politics/migrant-family-separation-what-next/index.html

Interesting symbolism given the kid was never separated, and that her mother left 3 other kids behind in Honduras without even telling them she was leaving. I wonder if the TV cameras will go to Honduras to show them crying because their mother is gone.

I wonder why she left older kids and brought the little one? To gain sympathy, perhaps? Prior to to Session's change in policies people like her, mothers with children, would not have been charged. And now, after Trump backed down, people with kids are again not being charged, or having the charges dropped against them.

So the new policy for illegals is grab a kid and take it with you so that if you get caught you don't get charged.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 22, 2018, 12:45:21 pm
Most people believe that a person who jumps the border and runs for it likely has no legitimate claim, and that people breaking the law ought to be prosecuted regardless of whether they have children. The actual solution here is, I suppose, the one Trump wants; to build a wall to keep these people - and their kids - from ever getting across the border.

Btw, should other criminals also not be separated from their children? Should children be sent to live in prison with their mothers and fathers?

First of all, tell us once again who gave you the authority to speak for "most people" on this issue, or any other for that matter which you assume to do so often. But back to this issue, if you have a legitimate reason to be fleeing into the US there is a process in place to deal with you which does not require throwing you in jail and taking your child from you. (2300 so far). And you like to throw the word "criminal" around so let me advise you, under your definition, if you have ever jumped a stop sign or exceeded the speed limit while driving, you yourself are a criminal.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 22, 2018, 12:52:46 pm
Interesting symbolism given the kid was never separated, and that her mother left 3 other kids behind in Honduras without even telling them she was leaving. I wonder if the TV cameras will go to Honduras to show them crying because their mother is gone.

I wonder why she left older kids and brought the little one? To gain sympathy, perhaps? Prior to to Session's change in policies people like her, mothers with children, would not have been charged. And now, after Trump backed down, people with kids are again not being charged, or having the charges dropped against them.

So the new policy for illegals is grab a kid and take it with you so that if you get caught you don't get charged.

Perhaps you don't understand symbolism but that picture relates to the roughly 2300 children that were taken from their parents and are alone in detention centers. And you seem to be a little out of phase regarding Sessions and the US admin. Sessions initially announced the zero tolerance policy which said you WOULD be locked up and your children taken from you and then after the backlash became so strong he completely reversed (lied actually) about the policy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 22, 2018, 12:59:35 pm
First of all, tell us once again who gave you the authority to speak for "most people" on this issue, or any other for that matter which you assume to do so often.

I'm part of the normal, mainstream culture, as opposed to progressives wrapped up in desperately politically correct views of things. We want illegal border crossers, including kids, deported ASAP.

Quote
But back to this issue, if you have a legitimate reason to be fleeing into the US there is a process in place to deal with you which does not require throwing you in jail and taking your child from you. (2300 so far).

Indeed, there is. But none of those arrested followed it. Thus the 2300 children taken from parents charged with illegally crossing the border.

Quote
And you like to throw the word "criminal" around so let me advise you, under your definition, if you have ever jumped a stop sign or exceeded the speed limit while driving, you yourself are a criminal.

Drivel. We're talking about people incarcerated. You aren't incarcerated for jumping a stop sign.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 22, 2018, 01:00:30 pm
Perhaps you don't understand symbolism but that picture relates to the roughly 2300 children that were taken from their parents and are alone in detention centers.

So what should have been done with them when their parents were arrested for breaking the law?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 22, 2018, 01:02:25 pm
Interesting symbolism given the kid was never separated, and that her mother left 3 other kids behind in Honduras without even telling them she was leaving. I wonder if the TV cameras will go to Honduras to show them crying because their mother is gone.

I wonder why she left older kids and brought the little one? To gain sympathy, perhaps? Prior to to Session's change in policies people like her, mothers with children, would not have been charged. And now, after Trump backed down, people with kids are again not being charged, or having the charges dropped against them.

So the new policy for illegals is grab a kid and take it with you so that if you get caught you don't get charged.

So those 2300 must be crisis actors. Right?

Did it occur to you that she might have had no way of getting her whole family there and hoped to bring them along later if her asylum request was accepted? This is stuff you need to find out before you condemn them. These people aren't exactly arriving in business class.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 22, 2018, 01:08:29 pm
I'm part of the normal, mainstream culture, as opposed to progressives wrapped up in desperately politically correct views of things. We want illegal border crossers, including kids, deported ASAP.

Indeed, there is. But none of those arrested followed it. Thus the 2300 children taken from parents charged with illegally crossing the border.

Drivel. We're talking about people incarcerated. You aren't incarcerated for jumping a stop sign.

And you're usually not incarcerated for committing a misdemeanor which is what illegally putting a foot on US soil is under US law. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 22, 2018, 01:13:21 pm
I'm part of the normal, mainstream culture, as opposed to progressives wrapped up in desperately politically correct views of things. We want illegal border crossers, including kids, deported ASAP.

Indeed, there is. But none of those arrested followed it. Thus the 2300 children taken from parents charged with illegally crossing the border.

Drivel. We're talking about people incarcerated. You aren't incarcerated for jumping a stop sign.

You are quite clearly part of the xenophobic culture that wants anybody who doesn't have the same skin color as you to be deported ASAP. Your posts demonstrate that clearly and regularly. And of course that's your right to do so.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 22, 2018, 01:23:34 pm
So those 2300 must be crisis actors. Right?

Did it occur to you that she might have had no way of getting her whole family there and hoped to bring them along later if her asylum request was accepted? This is stuff you need to find out before you condemn them. These people aren't exactly arriving in business class.

Yes it's a fair ways from Honduras to Texas, and as you say they were not in business class, so travelling with one babe in arms would be enough of a burden. If the asylum request was approved than family reunification could follow.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 22, 2018, 01:54:31 pm
So those 2300 must be crisis actors. Right?

Did it occur to you that she might have had no way of getting her whole family there and hoped to bring them along later if her asylum request was accepted? This is stuff you need to find out before you condemn them. These people aren't exactly arriving in business class.

She left without even telling them she was going or saying goodbye! And why go all the way to Texas when Costa Rica and Belize are far closer?

And her 'asylum' request will most certainly not be accepted. Nor did she present one. She was arrested after being smuggled across the border. She's from Honduras. There is no claim to be made from Honduras unless you can put forth a case that she is being persecuted due to her race, ethnicity, religion or political views.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 22, 2018, 01:56:43 pm
You are quite clearly part of the xenophobic culture that wants anybody who doesn't have the same skin color as you to be deported ASAP. Your posts demonstrate that clearly and regularly. And of course that's your right to do so.

You are such a tried, cliched little leftist drip.
But you're right that I'm part of our culture, and if you disdain it so much, perhaps you'll find yourself happier living somewhere else? Like Honduras, for example. Nice weather down there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 22, 2018, 02:06:24 pm
You are such a tried, cliched little leftist drip.
But you're right that I'm part of our culture, and if you disdain it so much, perhaps you'll find yourself happier living somewhere else? Like Honduras, for example. Nice weather down there.

How would you know the weather anywhere other than the tiny little block you must live on. But speaking of tired drips, it's always fun to watch you resort to insults when you are refuted.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 22, 2018, 02:33:36 pm
Trumps sinks to a new low in his swamp by inviting people who have had family members killed by immigrants to tell their stories. Now I hasten to add that I sympathize with anyone losing a family member, especially unexpectedly through violence. Where it gets ugly once again with Trump's spin is that he is trying to caste a shadow on immigrants as being criminals while the actual facts simply do not support his claims. He knows he is under fire for being a racist bigot so he struggles with this kind of crap to try and counter. He I'm sure knows that his brain dead knuckle dragger conservative follower base will eat whatever shyte Trump tells them to. Hopefully we don't see a rise in violence against non white skinned people in the aftermath of his sick, feeble attempt to justify his position.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/30/upshot/crime-immigration-myth.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 22, 2018, 05:06:41 pm
Quote
Drivel. We're talking about people incarcerated. You aren't incarcerated for jumping a stop sign.

Did you know that jumping the border is classified a a misdemeanor crime....   just like running a stop sign? 

No...  I guess you didn't know that....

Quote
Illegal entry is a misdemeanor for first-time offenders and a conviction is grounds for deportation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/06/19/the-facts-about-trumps-policy-of-separating-families-at-the-border/?utm_term=.23df205c60cc
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 22, 2018, 05:59:35 pm
Did you know that jumping the border is classified a a misdemeanor crime....   just like running a stop sign? 

No...  I guess you didn't know that....

With a six month sentence, and up to two years for repeating. You're equating that with jumping a stop sign?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 22, 2018, 10:15:51 pm
Trumps sinks to a new low in his swamp by inviting people who have had family members killed by immigrants to tell their stories. Now I hasten to add that I sympathize with anyone losing a family member, especially unexpectedly through violence. Where it gets ugly once again with Trump's spin is that he is trying to caste a shadow on immigrants as being criminals while the actual facts simply do not support his claims. He knows he is under fire for being a racist bigot so he struggles with this kind of crap to try and counter. He I'm sure knows that his brain dead knuckle dragger conservative follower base will eat whatever shyte Trump tells them to. Hopefully we don't see a rise in violence against non white skinned people in the aftermath of his sick, feeble attempt to justify his position.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/30/upshot/crime-immigration-myth.html

Most immigrants are good citizens.  What about illegal immigrants?  They commit crime by entering & staying in the country illegally, then to work many have to commit fraud to get a social security number to give to employers, or work under the table (illegal), or be complicit in fraud if the criminal businesses they work for look the other way.  Then many either don't file taxes (tax evasion), or only file if they'll get a rebate or other benefits. Upstanding citizens!

That's not even counting the small minority who are drug traffickers, human traffickers, sex trade operators etc. that Trump likes to go on about.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 22, 2018, 10:35:44 pm
Most immigrants are good citizens.  What about illegal immigrants?  They commit crime by entering & staying in the country illegally, then to work many have to commit fraud to get a social security number to give to employers, or work under the table (illegal), or be complicit in fraud if the criminal businesses they work for look the other way.  Then many either don't file taxes (tax evasion), or only file if they'll get a rebate or other benefits. Upstanding citizens!

That's not even counting the small minority who are drug traffickers, human traffickers, sex trade operators etc. that Trump likes to go on about.

Go ask US farmers along the Mexican border how many of them invite immigrants to work for them doing jobs Americans don't want to do. Like picking crops. They certainly don't want Trump's stupid **** wall. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 24, 2018, 12:14:32 pm
The latest thing going around is that Sarah Huckabee Sanders and her family were asked to leave a restaurant last week. She's butt-hurt, her dad Mike is butt-hurt, and lots of other Republicans are offended as well.  They're talking about "the intolerance of the left".

(Personally, I do think it was rude for them to ask her to leave. I probably wouldn't have done that if it was my restaurant. I would have probably just spit in her food.)

She made a Twitter post complaining about the restaurant (which is a violation of the Hatch Act) and made a holier-than-thou remark about how she treats people with respect, even when she disagrees with.  That's hilarious, considering who she works for.  Trump and his staff have made it a policy to insult and ridicule anybody they disagree with.

Dad Mike and other Republican supporters are calling the incident "bigotry".  Mike Huckabee knows a thing or two about bigotry, given all the work he's done championing anti-LGBT causes over the years.  Sarah Huckabee Sanders herself was the manager of an anti-LGBT religious-right Super-PAC before going to work for Trump.  She publicly applauded the Supreme Court ruling in favor of the guy who wouldn't bake a cake for a gay wedding. She's an opponent of gay marriage and she supports businesses being able to refuse service to gay people.   Maybe experiencing the other side of that this week will give her some fresh insight into her views. But I doubt it.

One distinction worth noting: she wasn't asked to leave for her skin color or her sexual orientation or any other intrinsic quality.  She was asked to leave because of what she does, which is spread propaganda on behalf of a morally bankrupt regime.   Political views aren't protected from discrimination.  You're not obliged to serve a neo-fascist or a communist or an alt-right dipshit. 


But the funniest thing about all this is the irony of all these Trump supporters who care about Sarah Huckabee Sanders' hurt feelings.  These people built their whole movement around the idea of insulting and attacking their opponents. These people say things like "Suck it up, Snowflake!"  These are the people that last week made the "womp-womp" mocking sad-trombone sound in response to the story of the disabled girl taken from her parents at the border.   These people take gleeful, childish delight in causing anger and hurt feelings to others.  But they want us to feel sorry for Sarah?  They got all upset when Michelle Wolf said mean things about SHS at the correspondents' dinner, and now they're upset that SHS was asked to leave a restaurant.  I think the only response to that is "Suck it up, Snowflake."

(https://i.imgur.com/DzTzUw6.jpg)

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 24, 2018, 12:28:30 pm
That "womp-womp" thing made my blood boil too. If anybody deserves that type of reaction it would be Sarah as she spouts her absolute bs during her press briefings. Kicking her and her family out of the restaurant I agree was wrong. I suspect your picture, including the T shirt, gives a pretty good insight into who Trump's supporters are. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 24, 2018, 01:08:45 pm
Go ask US farmers along the Mexican border how many of them invite immigrants to work for them doing jobs Americans don't want to do. Like picking crops. They certainly don't want Trump's stupid **** wall.

Why should anyone give two **** about US farmers complicit in illegal border crossings and illegal employment, tax fraud and all the rest?  Americans don't want to do jobs at the low wages these employers give to the Mexican migrants.  These people are exploited by businesses.  The whole "working jobs Americans don't want to do" thing is horseshit.  Americans don't want to be garbage men, so you know what the employers do?  They raise wages until they do want to do it.

If they raise wages and employers still can't find temporary farm workers, then have a program like they do in Canada where they legally bring in temporary foreign workers and everything is legal and on the books. Every single excuse for allowing illegal immigration is nonsense that's easily refuted.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 24, 2018, 01:14:12 pm
Why should anyone give two **** about US farmers complicit in illegal border crossings and illegal employment, tax fraud and all the rest?  Americans don't want to do jobs at the low wages these employers give to the Mexican migrants.  These people are exploited by businesses.  The whole "working jobs Americans don't want to do" thing is horseshit.  Americans don't want to be garbage men, so you know what the employers do?  They raise wages until they do want to do it.

If they raise prices and employers still can't find temporary farm workers, then have a program like they do in Canada where they legally bring in temporary foreign workers and everything is legal and on the books. Every single excuse for allowing illegal immigration is nonsense that's easily refuted.

So, blame the American's not the migrants. The real issue here currently is not tomato pickers but children thrown into detention camps.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 24, 2018, 01:27:04 pm
So, blame the American's not the migrants. The real issue here currently is not tomato pickers but children thrown into detention camps.

They aren't being thrown into 'detention camps'. They are taken into government care because they have no parents to look after them. There were a bunch of demonstrators outside once such institution on the news demanding they 'let the children go!" in shrill, emotional shouts.

And I wonder what those demonstrators would have done if the place had complied. Then they'd be like "Hey! You have to take care of these kids!"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 24, 2018, 06:53:23 pm
So, blame the American's not the migrants. The real issue here currently is not tomato pickers but children thrown into detention camps.

Both are to blame.  Anyone who breaks the law should be held accountable.  Do the crime, do the time or pay the fine.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 24, 2018, 07:16:31 pm
They aren't being thrown into 'detention camps'. They are taken into government care because they have no parents to look after them. There were a bunch of demonstrators outside once such institution on the news demanding they 'let the children go!" in shrill, emotional shouts.

And I wonder what those demonstrators would have done if the place had complied. Then they'd be like "Hey! You have to take care of these kids!"

Well yes they are actually. Apparently about 2300 of them until Trump had to hide from the backlash and rescind hid zero tolerance policy. Latest stats I hear is that about 500 have been reunited. If you feel better deflecting by calling detention camps government care then fill your boots. But most people aren't buying it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 24, 2018, 07:21:36 pm
Both are to blame.  Anyone who breaks the law should be held accountable.  Do the crime, do the time or pay the fine.

OK, so charge them a fine commensurate with other misdemeanors, such as speeding or running a red light. Then refer them to an immigration judge to determine if they have a valid reason for having committed said "crime". If not send them home. But don't take their children from their parents in the meantime.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 24, 2018, 08:01:44 pm
So now Trump is stamping out commemorative coins with pictures of Mara Lago and him and Fat Kim on them and has removed E pluribus unum and replaced it with MAGA. And guess who's paying for it. For a guy who promised to "drain the swamp" he has sunk lower than a snakes belly.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/06/trump-challenge-coins-mar-a-lago
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 25, 2018, 11:27:39 am
HD moving more production out of the US due to tariff war.
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/harley-davidson-moves-some-production-out-of-u-s-after-tariffs-1.1098094

 Also, markets tanking on Trump's threats. Trade wars are good and easy to win, remember.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 25, 2018, 11:37:02 am
Also US farmers, many of whom supported Trump, who produce such items as apples, soybeans and corn are seeing markets shrink and prices drop over the same issues. The problem for farmers of course is it's a little harder to move production than it is for say, Harley.
I don't think one would need to be a market guru to have seen this coming either.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-agriculture/trumps-tariff-war-threatens-to-erode-support-of-farmers-idUSKBN1JE2X2
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 25, 2018, 12:02:17 pm
Well yes they are actually.

Well no they're not actually.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 25, 2018, 12:11:23 pm
Well no they're not actually.

Well yes they are actually. Perhaps you like to listen to Breitbart or some such and so perhaps not well informed. Here is a picture of one of those detention centers for your edification.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/6/18/17474986/family-separation-border-video
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 25, 2018, 01:19:26 pm
Well no they're not actually.

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/11558263/42831734412_0a71cde699_k.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 25, 2018, 04:32:30 pm

There are a lot of identical pictures from serious news organizations depicting the same sorts of things when Obama was president.
That is because they got a sudden surge of unaccompanied minors and had to put them up in warehouses until they could find guardians or foster families.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 25, 2018, 04:35:31 pm
Well yes they are actually. Perhaps you like to listen to Breitbart or some such and so perhaps not well informed. Here is a picture of one of those detention centers for your edification.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/6/18/17474986/family-separation-border-video

Maybe you missed this the last time I posted it.

http://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 25, 2018, 04:52:01 pm
Maybe you missed this the last time I posted it.

http://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5

Well at least you seem to have stopped trying to deny what Trump is doing. And if you look at the influx of UM's during Obama's time compared to Trump's you'll see the former had a lot more to deal with. Also, as the term implies, an unaccompanied minor means they were already without parents when they got here, not taken from their parents as Trump wants to continue doing. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 26, 2018, 12:12:05 pm
So what is Trump going to do, come up with some special Harley Davidson tax?

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/trump-harley-davidson-will-be-taxed-like-never-before-if-it-moves-1.1098794

Harley sales were down 12% in the US last year and up by 7% in Europe and Latin America. Taxing them in the US won't change that other than decreasing US sales even more.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 26, 2018, 12:22:15 pm
Maybe someone should remind Trump that most of his **** gets made in China, Mexico, Bangladesh, etc., etc. Of course his hypocrisy precedes him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 26, 2018, 12:37:03 pm
Well at least you seem to have stopped trying to deny what Trump is doing. And if you look at the influx of UM's during Obama's time compared to Trump's you'll see the former had a lot more to deal with. Also, as the term implies, an unaccompanied minor means they were already without parents when they got here, not taken from their parents as Trump wants to continue doing.

And a lot of unaccompanied minors are in these shelters now too. And the only reason Obama wasn't separating kids from their parents was that he put a moratorium on prosecuting the parents, basically letting them go even once caught. That is not something that makes most Americans happy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 26, 2018, 12:51:52 pm
And a lot of unaccompanied minors are in these shelters now too. And the only reason Obama wasn't separating kids from their parents was that he put a moratorium on prosecuting the parents, basically letting them go even once caught. That is not something that makes most Americans happy.

Ah no. Actually Obama holds the record for the most deportations of illegals than any other president. He just didn't tear families apart while processing them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 26, 2018, 01:23:25 pm
I guess Trump will have to forget inviting his "Rocket Man" buddy to the WH since the SCOTUS has now approved his travel ban after North Korea was added to try and make it look like it wasn't actually a Muslim ban.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on June 26, 2018, 02:00:23 pm
Any semblance of trying to defend Trump for me long since past. The constant lies throwing false numbers out, the sucking up to North Korea and Russia, the level of personal insults he spits out daily
all are beyond any reason to defend. I also find his Vice President a disgusting excuse of a human not to mention the Republican Senators afraid to call him out. It is a disgrace to see such a country run by such a pathetic excuse of a human.`I have always been pro American in many things but since Trump was elected its just not possible to defend. He lost me actually after he insulted and ridiculed Senator McCain.

I think its crucial the rest of the world hangs in until the next US election and hope the Republicans and Democrats form a coalition to get him out. Its unheard of but possible. Trump has alienated so many Republicans they should toss him out of the party and let him remain as an independent.   I just don't see any strong candidates down the road at this time in either party. Ultimately its an American decision and I hope they do not re-elect him but I fear they will.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on June 26, 2018, 03:44:19 pm
I guess Trump will have to forget inviting his "Rocket Man" buddy to the WH since the SCOTUS has now approved his travel ban after North Korea was added to try and make it look like it wasn't actually a Muslim ban.

Really?  He makes nice with N Korea, then bans them from the US?  I suppose they weren't going to be coming anyway, but that just seems so odd.  Will KJU get it, or will he be insulted?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 26, 2018, 03:53:37 pm
Really?  He makes nice with N Korea, then bans them from the US?  I suppose they weren't going to be coming anyway, but that just seems so odd.  Will KJU get it, or will he be insulted?

Hard to say. KJU enjoys abusing his own people so he might just get a woodie from having Trump doing it too. I assume if he wanted to visit Donald would whip out his jolly great pen and sign some exec. order. that would give Kim diplomatic immunity and over he would come. Well assuming China would loan him a plane that was filled up with gas.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 26, 2018, 10:31:45 pm
So a federal judge in the US has just laid down an order to reunify children with their parents within `4 days if the child is under 5 years old, and within 30 days for those older. I wonder if Trump and Co. even know where the hell a lot of those kids are. And of course there's the groundwork for tweet storm tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 26, 2018, 11:29:57 pm
Trump people are boycotting the Red Hen, apparently.

Which is hilarious, because Trump people only eat at restaurants with a Value Menu and a drive-through window anyway. If a restaurant doesn't an industrial-size deep fat fryer, Trump people don't eat there. The last time Trump people boycotted a restaurant, it was because the "Biggie-Size It for $1.99" option was removed from the menu.  Watching Trump people pretend like they'd be spending money at the Red Hen if not for this incident is almost as funny as watching them pretend like they care about "mutual respect" and "civil discourse". 

Trump people boycotting an artisan restaurant is like me boycotting Trump golf resorts. I've never been golfing in my life, and I never will, so it's not a huge threat to el Trumpo for me to take my golf dollars elsewhere. Ditto the MAGA people threatening to boycott the Red Hen.

"I was very offended by the way you treated Mrs Huckabee-Sanders.  Next time I am in the mood for a charkoo carchoo archocary carcharkery cutchark fancy salami tray, I will take my business elsewhere!"


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 26, 2018, 11:51:42 pm
I used to play a little golf. Wasn't all that good at it but I had fun and I didn't cheat. I'd love the opportunity to give Donald a close up view of my #1 driver.

A really quick view.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 27, 2018, 05:46:48 am

Which is hilarious, because Trump people only eat at restaurants with a Value Menu and a drive-through window anyway.

On my last trip to the US [maybe my last for awhile] there was a lady on the highway with a Trump sticker on her car.  Shitty driver and she looked like an idiot, but - hey - sample size of one so I'm sure they are all fine people.

Quote
I've never been golfing in my life, and I never will

There goes another stereotype.

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 27, 2018, 11:30:26 am
While on the one hand we have Trump prattling on about thousands of immigration judges and needing 5000 more judges to handle the backlog and "where are we gonna get 5000 more judges", on the other hand, I just listened to an interview with a recently (2016) retired actual immigration judge who sets us straight that there are currently 334 sitting immigration judges and that while there are backlogs in certain areas, that the current is quite capable of handling the work and basically just shook his head at Trump's phony claims. He also claimed that the majority of people coming across the border are not economic migrants but people who are fleeing their home countries due to fear of violence and therefore have a right to a hearing (which he claims takes on average 3-4 hours) in an immigration court pursuant to the US Constitution. I think I'm more inclined to listen to a judge who actually worked professionally for 8 years within the immigration courts system than a duffus who doesn't even know how many judges that system employs.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 27, 2018, 01:31:17 pm
This is the kind of thing which, if it spreads, could lose the Democrats the election, and even keep Trump in power after 2020. A far left progressive won a New York congressional primary, unseating a long-term, senior Democrat.

The winning candidate identifies herself as a Socialist Democrat, worked on the Bernie Sanders campaign, and wants to abolish the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency. I've said before the Democrats are a shoe-in if they stick to the center. They'll get all the votes on the Left, most of those in the center, and even some on the center left. If they start running their own version of the Tea Party, though, the centrists will see an extreme Left Democratic party and an Extreme Right Republican party and will split, with a lot just staying home.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/primary-elections-new-york-colorado-oklahoma-maryland-utah/2018/06/25/05bbbc5a-78a2-11e8-80be-6d32e182a3bc_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.60b2292056ac
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 27, 2018, 01:33:52 pm
Trump people are boycotting the Red Hen, apparently.

Which is hilarious, because Trump people only eat at restaurants with a Value Menu and a drive-through window anyway. If a restaurant doesn't an industrial-size deep fat fryer, Trump people don't eat there. The last time Trump people boycotted a restaurant, it was because the "Biggie-Size It for $1.99" option was removed from the menu.  Watching Trump people pretend like they'd be spending money at the Red Hen if not for this incident is almost as funny as watching them pretend like they care about "mutual respect" and "civil discourse". 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/us-politics/the-average-trump-supporter-is-not-an-economic-loser/article32746323/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 27, 2018, 01:51:53 pm
The scary bit today now is that Tony Kennedy has announced his retirement from the USSC and so of course Trump will now get to appoint another alt. right similar to Neil Gorsuch to the bench who will in all likelihood continue to help Trump further isolate the US.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 27, 2018, 02:37:02 pm
This is the kind of thing which, if it spreads, could lose the Democrats the election, and even keep Trump in power after 2020. A far left progressive won a New York congressional primary, unseating a long-term, senior Democrat.

The winning candidate identifies herself as a Socialist Democrat, worked on the Bernie Sanders campaign, and wants to abolish the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency. I've said before the Democrats are a shoe-in if they stick to the center. They'll get all the votes on the Left, most of those in the center, and even some on the center left. If they start running their own version of the Tea Party, though, the centrists will see an extreme Left Democratic party and an Extreme Right Republican party and will split, with a lot just staying home.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/primary-elections-new-york-colorado-oklahoma-maryland-utah/2018/06/25/05bbbc5a-78a2-11e8-80be-6d32e182a3bc_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.60b2292056ac

She sounds like a Canadian centrist....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 27, 2018, 03:00:19 pm
She sounds like a Canadian centrist....

Not her demand to abolish the immigration control and customs service.
And Canadian centrists are far left to the US. I actually agree with her desire for universal health care, but I remember how the Republicans and corporations played the Hillary Clinton task force report and turned Americans against it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 27, 2018, 08:07:25 pm
And now Trump is hiring Bill Shine to join his inner circle, so now FOX, faux news will speak for the WH instead of Breitbart. Shine had to leave fox due to his handling of sexual assault claims within the organization, but then we've all heard Trump's discussion about how he gets away with grabbing women because he thinks he's "a star". They should get along very well I expect.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 27, 2018, 09:07:15 pm
She sounds like a Canadian centrist....

Yeah kinda, though she ran on wanting tuition-free public college education.  She's basically a Bernie Sanders clone from the sounds of it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 28, 2018, 10:08:12 am
Yeah kinda, though she ran on wanting tuition-free public college education.  She's basically a Bernie Sanders clone from the sounds of it.

Good.   They need more people like that and less people like the usual numbers that run the government down there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 28, 2018, 11:23:14 am
This is the kind of thing which, if it spreads, could lose the Democrats the election, and even keep Trump in power after 2020. A far left progressive won a New York congressional primary, unseating a long-term, senior Democrat.
So far to the left, with such radical socialist ideas as universal health care, which is provided in every god damned economically advanced nation on the planet.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 28, 2018, 01:00:01 pm
So far to the left, with such radical socialist ideas as universal health care, which is provided in every god damned economically advanced nation on the planet.

Actually, the US has spoken on that.  They decided that they did not want Healthcare and have rejected social programs, separation of church and state and global alliances.  We should just leave them to their workers' paradise now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 28, 2018, 01:13:00 pm
So far to the left, with such radical socialist ideas as universal health care, which is provided in every god damned economically advanced nation on the planet.

So far to the left with radical ideas like abolishing the immigration control and enforcement department.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on June 28, 2018, 01:15:06 pm
Good.   They need more people like that and less people like the usual numbers that run the government down there.

They don't need a Democratic party moving further and further to the Left as the Republicans move further and further to the Right. That becomes increasingly dangerous for the stability of the country as both parties will appeal to radically different groups, and do their best to stoke the emotions and feelings of those people on 'their side'. If the Democrats stay in the middle they can attract far more votes and take over congress and the presidency.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 28, 2018, 01:19:24 pm
So far to the left with radical ideas like abolishing the immigration control and enforcement department.
She doesn't want to "abolish immigration control and enforcement" as you're implying. She wants to abolish the unaccountable agency that is allowed to operate extra-judicial concentration camps, putting children into cages, at times beating and raping them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 28, 2018, 02:09:31 pm
So far to the left with radical ideas like abolishing the immigration control and enforcement department.

ummm...  this is supposed to be radical?

Quote
“We need to remember is that ICE was just established in 2003,” the Democratic nominee added. “We had an immigration system before then. ICE was established with the Patriot Act, with the Iraq war, with AUMF, with DHS. And we look at all that legislation now as a mistake.”
- Ocasio-Cortez


If you add some actual context to her position, then you can fairly critique it.  You are using it like a whacko right wing slogan.

Abolishing ICE and going back to how it was before the neo-cons took over is hardly a radical idea.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 28, 2018, 04:17:07 pm
Well the US is keeping up the pace with regard to shootings with the tragedy in Annapolis MD. today. 5 dead and apparently many more wounded. I imagine Wayne La Pierre is on the phone with Trump right now telling him to keep the faith and don't **** around with any gun laws.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 28, 2018, 05:13:11 pm
Just another day in Murica.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 28, 2018, 06:06:12 pm
I can remember when Colombine was shocking.  I just realized I totally forgot about that Las Vegas shooting last year where 58 were gunned down.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 28, 2018, 10:51:20 pm
So here's my suggestion: let's pool our resources and buy an old rocket with a capsule on top, and we put Trump, Fat Kim, Putin, and Sean Hannity while we're at it, ( he  now claims the shooting today in Annapolis is the fault of Maxine Waters) throw in a few double cheeseburgers and milkshakes, and then light the fuse and launch that baby into orbit. Then if you were giving your kids a lesson on astrology, you could point out the "Orbit of Morbid". Any other suggestions as to the passenger list?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 29, 2018, 06:25:16 am
I can remember when Colombine was shocking.  I just realized I totally forgot about that Las Vegas shooting last year where 58 were gunned down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

Sutherland Springs ?  The 5th largest ever and I don't remember it at all, from last year.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 29, 2018, 01:13:51 pm
Trump says his government "will not rest until they can protect citizens from the violence such as has just occurred in Annapolis". At the same time however he won't seem to lift a finger to do a thing toward tightening up gun laws. Can you imagine the increase in carnage this guy could have created had he been carrying a legally purchased AR15 rather than a pump action shotgun! I guess Wayne La Pierre has as much control over Trump as does Putin. Oh well, at least it wasn't at a school....this time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 29, 2018, 01:24:16 pm
Trump says his government "will not rest until they can protect citizens from the violence such as has just occurred in Annapolis". At the same time however he won't seem to lift a finger to do a thing toward tightening up gun laws. Can you imagine the increase in carnage this guy could have created had he been carrying a legally purchased AR15 rather than a pump action shotgun! I guess Wayne La Pierre has as much control over Trump as does Putin. Oh well, at least it wasn't at a school....this time.

Trump can't do much...   Congress passes laws.  Just like Obama did nothing to restrict guns in the USA. 

Of course, there's a big difference is that Trump's (and Republican's in general) solution is to arm more people and have more guns out there.  This has proven to have the opposite effect, but never let facts get in the way of political donations...

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 29, 2018, 01:38:09 pm
Trump can't do much...   Congress passes laws.  Just like Obama did nothing to restrict guns in the USA. 

Of course, there's a big difference is that Trump's (and Republican's in general) solution is to arm more people and have more guns out there.  This has proven to have the opposite effect, but never let facts get in the way of political donations...

Yes we know how much Americans love their "right to bear arms" thing regardless of the seemingly never ending gun violence. What really irked me was Trump's hypocrisy he displayed with regard to his meeting with students and parents at the WH after the Parkland school shooting, and how he confirmed no new gun laws as he spoke to a conservative group only a couple of days later. I'm sure he is well aware of what percentage from the sale of firearms end up supporting his campaign fund.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 30, 2018, 11:40:45 am
So when the report of the newspaper shooting broke I figured "finally one of the Trumptards has gone and done it."

But later I read that he was just a guy with a personal grievance against the newspaper.

But now it turns out he was an alt-right Trumptard after all.

https://www.salon.com/2018/06/30/exclusive-accused-annapolis-shooter-had-deep-dark-links-to-the-alt-right/

The past few days we've seen alt-right figure Milo Yiannopoulos saying "I was just joking" in regard to his recent comments that "I can't wait for the vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight."
http://uk.businessinsider.com/milo-yiannopoulos-journalists-gunned-down-before-capital-gazette-attack-2018-6

A 2016 interview of NRA spokesmoron Dana Loesch saying journalists were "the rat bastards of the earth" and need to be "curb-stomped"... she says she was referring to the stories, not the journalists themselves.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/maryland-shooting-latest-nra-dana-loesch-journalists-gazette-gun-control-a8422566.html

Quote
The NRA released a video containing a threatening message to journalists warning them "your time is running out" in March. In a video posted on Twitter by NRATV, Ms Loesch tells “every lying member of the media” that they have “had enough”.

Set to a backing track of ominous-sounding guitar music, she appears on screen dressed in black with an hourglass by her side.

“We have had enough of the lies, the sanctimony, the arrogance, the hatred, the pettiness, the fake news. We are done with your agenda to undermine voters' will and individual liberty in America.”

“So to every lying member of the media, to every Hollywood phoney, to the role model athletes who use their free speech to alter and undermine what our flag represents.

"To the politicians who would rather watch America burn than lose one ounce of their own personal power, to the late night posts that think their opinion is the only opinions that matter.

“To the Joy-Ann Reids, the Morning Joes, the Mikas. To those who stain honest reporting with partisanship. To those who bring bias and propaganda to CNN, The Washington Post and The New York Times… your time is running out. The clock starts now."

And of course President Dump has been telling people that journalists are "the enemies of the people" for ages.  But now he says he respects them very very much.

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/394955-cnn-plays-montage-of-trump-attacking-media-after-he-praised-reporters

When Jim Acosta asked if he'd stop calling journalists "the enemy of the people" yesterday, Trump ignored the question.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 30, 2018, 12:55:01 pm
When Trump gave his "condolence" speech regarding the victims of the shooting in Annapolis, I can tell you there were a number of rather harsh expletives hurled across my living room at the TV screen. Humpty Trumpty will likely be doing the same if he happens to be watching the coverage of the coast to coast protests against his immigration policy today. And just to underscore what a flailing idiot he is, he sent out a tweet this morning once again trying to blame the Democrats for HIS family separation policy. Pffft!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on June 30, 2018, 08:14:26 pm
So what should have been done with them when their parents were arrested for breaking the law?

Another persons who hasn't read the UN HCR Convention/Protocol on Refugees - I suggest you start at article 31: The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their  illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence.

Crossing the border by itself is not a crime, it depends on how long they evade authorities.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 01, 2018, 12:36:18 pm
Another persons who hasn't read the UN HCR Convention/Protocol on Refugees - I suggest you start at article 31: The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their  illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence.

Crossing the border by itself is not a crime, it depends on how long they evade authorities.

None of these people are refugees under the UN definition. I have posted it multiple times but no doubt you remain in ignorance of its terms since they conflict with yours.

And btw, none of them presented themselves without delay. They could have done that at the border. Instead they paid smugglers to sneak them across.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 01, 2018, 01:21:40 pm
None of these people are refugees under the UN definition. I have posted it multiple times but no doubt you remain in ignorance of its terms since they conflict with yours.

I see, you are with Donald Trump. We don't need immigration judges and due process, you can make up your own mind based on their skin color.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 01, 2018, 01:34:43 pm
Refugees are refugees until a court says they aren't. That's the way rule of law works.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 01, 2018, 01:38:40 pm
None of these people are refugees under the UN definition. I have posted it multiple times but no doubt you remain in ignorance of its terms since they conflict with yours.

And btw, none of them presented themselves without delay. They could have done that at the border. Instead they paid smugglers to sneak them across.

Maybe take your blinders off and see what a refugee is under the UN definition.

https://www.unrefugees.org/refugee-facts/what-is-a-refugee/

Who is a refugee?

A refugee is someone who has been forced to flee his or her country because of persecution, war, or violence. A refugee has a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group. Most likely, they cannot return home or are afraid to do so. War and ethnic, tribal and religious violence are leading causes of refugees fleeing their countries.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 01, 2018, 02:11:21 pm
A refugee is someone who has been forced to flee his or her country because of persecution, war, or violence. A refugee has a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group. Most likely, they cannot return home or are afraid to do so. War and ethnic, tribal and religious violence are leading causes of refugees fleeing their countries.

And that definition really doesn't apply to most of Central America.

Refugees are refugees until a court says they aren't. That's the way rule of law works.

I agree, but I understand why people are becoming extremely frustrated with this. Not just in the US, but in Canada and other places as well.  We talked about this in regard to Germany in the "Muslims" thread. Large numbers of young men from northwestern African countries continue to claim asylum in Germany... the portion of these asylum claims accepted is vanishingly close to zero, but they have to go through the process, which takes years, during which time the applicants live on the public dime. And when the process is finally done and the rejected applicants are told to go home, their home countries won't take them back so they get to stay in Germany anyway and continue to live on the public dime.

The refugee system is being abused by economic migrants who aren't fleeing persecution.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 01, 2018, 02:33:23 pm
And that definition really doesn't apply to most of Central America.

I agree, but I understand why people are becoming extremely frustrated with this. Not just in the US, but in Canada and other places as well.  We talked about this in regard to Germany in the "Muslims" thread. Large numbers of young men from northwestern African countries continue to claim asylum in Germany... the portion of these asylum claims accepted is vanishingly close to zero, but they have to go through the process, which takes years, during which time the applicants live on the public dime. And when the process is finally done and the rejected applicants are told to go home, their home countries won't take them back so they get to stay in Germany anyway and continue to live on the public dime.

The refugee system is being abused by economic migrants who aren't fleeing persecution.

 -k

That may have been true in the 70's 80's but not so much these days. Just look at who are coming, not so much yound men trying to get a job so they can send a few bucks back home each month, but but mothers, children, families fleeing the rise in gang violence in their countries.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 01, 2018, 02:44:33 pm
And that definition really doesn't apply to most of Central America.

I agree, but I understand why people are becoming extremely frustrated with this. Not just in the US, but in Canada and other places as well.  We talked about this in regard to Germany in the "Muslims" thread. Large numbers of young men from northwestern African countries continue to claim asylum in Germany... the portion of these asylum claims accepted is vanishingly close to zero, but they have to go through the process, which takes years, during which time the applicants live on the public dime. And when the process is finally done and the rejected applicants are told to go home, their home countries won't take them back so they get to stay in Germany anyway and continue to live on the public dime.

The refugee system is being abused by economic migrants who aren't fleeing persecution.

 -k

This.

This is the heart of it all, both here, in the US and in Europe. "They just have to go through the process" the Left says, but the process is broken. It was never intended or designed to deal with huge masses of people flooding across borders in their tens and hundreds of thousands. It CAN'T deal with them.

Tut tut, says the Left. It's really not a concern.

And all across Europe the mainstream parties say the same, and all across Europe people are turning away from the mainstream to more and more radical parties, just as they did in the US with Trump. A recent Europe wide poll found 78% of the people in all countries thought the migration problem was a major issue and wanted the borders tightened. But the politicians just dither. They demand the eastern European nations take in some of these refugees.

To which the Eastern Europeans say "We can go to football matches without surrounding the stadium with bomb sniffing dogs, police with automatic weapons, and metal detectors at every entrance for fear of suicide bombers. We can have outdoor festivals without blocking all the roads with cement mixers and dump trucks for fear someone will drive a truck through them. Our police don't have to worry about being stabbed in the back by suicidal religious fanatics. No one is driving cars along the sidewalks. And there are no **** gangs abusing thousands of our underage girls.  And you want us to be like you?

I've been reading Douglas Murray, and he talks about how the BBC won't even report on the latest mass child ****, despite it being front page news elsewhere. He says in Germany they report most crimes without giving the names now, and that Germans now know that's because the criminal is a migrant and the media don't want to let people know.

https://usa.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/why-cant-we-speak-plainly-about-migrant-crime/




Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 01, 2018, 02:49:32 pm
That may have been true in the 70's 80's but not so much these days. Just look at who are coming, not so much yound men trying to get a job so they can send a few bucks back home each month, but but mothers, children, families fleeing the rise in gang violence in their countries.

Who will sponsor those men as soon as they are accepted.
Lots of unaccompanied minors, who will do the same. Same thing in Europe.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 01, 2018, 03:04:08 pm
And that definition really doesn't apply to most of Central America.

It certainly does for Honduras, El Salvador and even to some extent Guatemala which are the major source countries for refugees.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 01, 2018, 03:06:33 pm
It certainly does for Honduras, El Salvador and even to some extent Guatemala which are the major source countries for refugees.

Who in these countries is being persecuted because of their race, nationality, or religion? Or even their political views?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 01, 2018, 03:11:01 pm
Who in these countries is being persecuted because of their race, nationality, or religion? Or even their political views?

Did you even bother to read the definition?

A refugee is someone who has been forced to flee his or her country because of persecution, war, or violence. A refugee has a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group. Most likely, they cannot return home or are afraid to do so. War and ethnic, tribal and religious violence are leading causes of refugees fleeing their countries.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 01, 2018, 03:17:03 pm
Did you even bother to read the definition?

A refugee is someone who has been forced to flee his or her country because of persecution, war, or violence. A refugee has a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group. Most likely, they cannot return home or are afraid to do so. War and ethnic, tribal and religious violence are leading causes of refugees fleeing their countries.

More than that. I actually understand English. Is it your second language?

There's no point in your highlighting anything else because this first part has to be satisfied.
A refugee has a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group.

So tell me how Haitians or Hondurans or El Salvadorans or Guatemalans qualify. Hint: crime does not satisfy this definition.


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 01, 2018, 03:23:11 pm
Not sure if this is available or behind a pay wall. It's a good read on how Angela Merkel is fighting for her political life as politics across Europe shifts rightward on migration and immigration. I post it to point out - again - that those who refuse to accept that there needs to be strong border controls are playing with fire. They might wind up with someone worse than Trump. And more effective. Because these kinds of sentiments are world-wide and not unique to Europe.

‘This is not about whether Mrs Merkel stays as chancellor next week or not,’ said Xavier Bettel, the Prime Minister of Luxembourg, as he came out of an emergency summit on immigration last weekend. He was joking. That was exactly what the meeting had been about, and everybody there knew it. The summit was Operation Save Mutti. Their mission: to stop Merkel’s government collapsing by thrashing out a tough stance on immigration to assuage her critics. It’s quite a turnaround. Once, Merkel was queen of Europe, now she’s a beggar. Suddenly, European politics has changed beyond recognition.



https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/06/angelas-ashes-merkels-grand-project-is-crumbling/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 01, 2018, 03:24:53 pm
There's no point in your highlighting anything else because this first part has to be satisfied.

I used the highlighting because I understand you don't get English.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 01, 2018, 03:29:28 pm
And that definition really doesn't apply to most of Central America.

I agree, but I understand why people are becoming extremely frustrated with this. Not just in the US, but in Canada and other places as well.  We talked about this in regard to Germany in the "Muslims" thread. Large numbers of young men from northwestern African countries continue to claim asylum in Germany... the portion of these asylum claims accepted is vanishingly close to zero, but they have to go through the process, which takes years, during which time the applicants live on the public dime. And when the process is finally done and the rejected applicants are told to go home, their home countries won't take them back so they get to stay in Germany anyway and continue to live on the public dime.

The refugee system is being abused by economic migrants who aren't fleeing persecution.

 -k

I'm in favour of speeding up the process, not denying people due process. Other than imposing sanctions on those countries, I don't know what you can do with ones who won't accept their own people back. Only problem with that is if sanctions make conditions worse in those countries, you will just have more people fleeing them. People insist on thinking there is some kind of domestic solution to this problem. That is really simplistic and doesn't make any sense to me, it is a global problem.

That's what populism is all about right, simplistic solutions to complicated problems that people either can't or don't want to get their heads around.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 01, 2018, 03:34:01 pm
I'm in favour of speeding up the process, not denying people due process. Other than imposing sanctions on those countries, I don't know what you can do with ones who won't accept their own people back. Only problem with that is if sanctions make conditions worse in those countries, you will just have more people fleeing them. People insist on thinking there is some kind of domestic solution to this problem. That is really simplistic and doesn't make any sense to me, it is a global problem.

That's what populism is all about right, simplistic solutions to complicated problems that people either can't or don't want to get their heads around.

Some of the proposals being pushed forward in Europe include relocating them to refugee camps outside Europe's borders, but maintained by Europe, and denying application to anyone who has no papers (many tear up paperwork and use false names so that they can't be sent back if their claim fails). You can talk about speeding things up all you want but our judicial system does not work. It takes years to go through even the simplest of cases. And then what? How do you get rid of them if the system finally says no? Especially with our largest cities declaring themselves 'sanctuary' cities for illegal immigrants?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 01, 2018, 03:34:41 pm
I used the highlighting because I understand you don't get English.

I asked a question and you failed to answer it. Clearly because you know the answer.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 01, 2018, 03:43:43 pm
I asked a question and you failed to answer it. Clearly because you know the answer.

See wilbur's post above, it does an excellent job of explaining your lack of understanding of the issues.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 01, 2018, 03:49:51 pm
See wilbur's post above, it does an excellent job of explaining your lack of understanding of the issues.

Wilber is hoping magic makes it all go away. That doesn't cut it for me.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 01, 2018, 03:59:40 pm
Wilber is hoping magic makes it all go away. That doesn't cut it for me.

Actually you are 180° off there. He is pointing out that your search for simple solutions to complex problems is trying to magic it away.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 01, 2018, 04:31:13 pm
Some of the proposals being pushed forward in Europe include relocating them to refugee camps outside Europe's borders, but maintained by Europe, and denying application to anyone who has no papers (many tear up paperwork and use false names so that they can't be sent back if their claim fails). You can talk about speeding things up all you want but our judicial system does not work. It takes years to go through even the simplest of cases. And then what? How do you get rid of them if the system finally says no? Especially with our largest cities declaring themselves 'sanctuary' cities for illegal immigrants?

So what non European countries are going to accept these camps? Maybe Canada should volunteer, we have lots of spare land but what happens if Europe decides they will no longer maintain them? We would be stuck with them so why should any other  country take that chance?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 01, 2018, 04:46:14 pm
In other news, I'm just hearing about this item were Sean Hannity has convinced Trump to hire ex Fox exec. Bill Shine. I can imagine that becoming a further shyte show. If Trump's comments about the media weren't already incendiary enough!.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 01, 2018, 05:57:10 pm
So what non European countries are going to accept these camps? Maybe Canada should volunteer, we have lots of spare land but what happens if Europe decides they will no longer maintain them? We would be stuck with them so why should any other  country take that chance?

They will be in Africa and the middle east. And they will be accepted because Europe will pay those governments to take them.
Most Europeans believe, in a recent poll, that these asylum seekers could be much better looked after (and much more cheaply looked after) in the areas of the world they are from.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 01, 2018, 05:58:32 pm
Actually you are 180° off there. He is pointing out that your search for simple solutions to complex problems is trying to magic it away.

Saying 'process them faster' is asking for magic, or divine intervention. We'd need a massive reformation of the judicial system first and LOTs more money for it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 01, 2018, 06:41:56 pm
Saying 'process them faster' is asking for magic, or divine intervention. We'd need a massive reformation of the judicial system first and LOTs more money for it.

1. Agreed the judicial system has plenty of problems that need to be addressed. Is the solution to address them, or to ignore due process like Trump wants?

2. A big part of the problem is in the home countries, and the US meddling in them. Most of those problems can be traced back to the massive failed US war on drugs. While it goes back to Reagan and even earlier, in these cases the link is strongest with Clinton policies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 01, 2018, 07:47:43 pm
Saying 'process them faster' is asking for magic, or divine intervention. We'd need a massive reformation of the judicial system first and LOTs more money for it.

Yeah "we'd need 5000 more immigration judges. Where the hell will we ever get them". You seem to be getting sucked into Trump's bullshit more and more.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 01, 2018, 10:04:00 pm
It certainly does for Honduras, El Salvador and even to some extent Guatemala which are the major source countries for refugees.

In days gone by I could buy this, but this is a time of relative political stability in those countries. We don't have civil wars raging, or Reagan sponsoring "regime change" or any of that going on.

Did you even bother to read the definition?

A refugee is someone who has been forced to flee his or her country because of persecution, war, or violence. A refugee has a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group. Most likely, they cannot return home or are afraid to do so. War and ethnic, tribal and religious violence are leading causes of refugees fleeing their countries.

If fear of crime or violence was sufficient cause for a refugee claim, then there could be any number of refugee claims. The whole city of Detroit could swim across the river and apply for refugee status in Canada.

When white South Africans have applied for refugee status in Canada, the bar wasn't set at fear of crime and violence. The bar was set at fear of being targets for violence because of their skin color, and most of these claims have been rejected.  **** is rampant in South Africa, but there's no evidence that whites are in particular targets for it.  Crime and murder targeting Boers is rampant in South Africa, but there's no evidence that the Boers are targeted because they're white, as opposed to being targets of opportunity-- black farmers might be equally targeted, we don't really know.  But despite the high levels of **** and murder in South Africa, these refugee claims have been generally rejected by Canada because the persecution element has not been established and therefore they don't meet the definition.

https://mg.co.za/article/2018-03-15-hotel-canada-the-white-south-africans-who-have-sought-asylum

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 01, 2018, 10:43:04 pm
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/08/01/the-asylum-seeker

Quote
Caroline had come to the United States the previous summer for a family wedding. When her parents left, she stayed, even after her tourist visa expired.

Now she was working on a story—a four-page document, in French, that she would give to a lawyer she had hired, and to immigration officials—saying that she was beaten and **** more than once by government soldiers in her country. “I have never been ****,” she admitted, giggling with embarrassment.

A clerk in Caroline’s lawyer’s office had suggested, “Why don’t you say you were circumcised?” Caroline told her that female circumcision wasn’t practiced in her country. So she had learned how to play a **** victim. She had pangs about lying: “Telling that story makes me sad, because I know it’s true for someone.”

A friend of mine, a former lawyer who has represented people in asylum cases, had recently told me about the difficulty of making a persuasive asylum plea these days. “The immigration people know the stories. There’s one for each country. There’s the Colombian **** story—they all say they were **** by the FARC. There’s the Rwandan **** story, the Tibetan refugee story. The details for each are the same.”

It is not enough for asylum applicants to say that they were threatened, or even beaten. They have to furnish horror stories. It’s not enough to say that they were ****. The officials require details. Inevitably, these atrocity stories are inflated, as new applicants for asylum get more inventive about what was done to them, competing with the lore that has already been established, with applicants whose stories, both real and fake, are so much more dramatic, whose plight is so much more perilous, than theirs.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 01, 2018, 11:24:25 pm
In days gone by I could buy this, but this is a time of relative political stability in those countries.

Gang violence is extremely high, and the government does absolutely nothing about it because they are in the pocket of the drug gangs. This is a mess of the US making. I don't see how you consider that political stability.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 02, 2018, 10:34:51 am
So Trump is now drafting up a bill that would remove the US from the WTO. So let's sum up: so far that's WTO. NAFTA, NATO, he want's the EU to break up, (that's one his bum buddy Putin will love) and he wants a trade war with everybody. And then he wants to buddy up with the likes of Fat Kim. And with each new step backwards, so goes the DOW. If he keeps it up maybe a new generation of hobos will have to learn how to ride the rods once again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 02, 2018, 10:53:26 am
1. Agreed the judicial system has plenty of problems that need to be addressed. Is the solution to address them, or to ignore due process like Trump wants?

Trump's statement wasn't anything but an appeal to the 'common man' who feels the same. Still, the only way I see to keep masses of people from crossing a border and staying indefinitely is to stop them crossing, or to move them into a camp, which would be less pleasant, and thus cause the follow-on migrants to reconsider. Australia has gone this route. Europe is actively considering it.

Quote
2. A big part of the problem is in the home countries, and the US meddling in them. Most of those problems can be traced back to the massive failed US war on drugs. While it goes back to Reagan and even earlier, in these cases the link is strongest with Clinton policies.

And yet, human rights in south/central American are way, way improved over what they were in Clinton's day.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 02, 2018, 10:54:00 am
So Trump is now drafting up a bill that would remove the US from the WTO.

Good for him. It can go into the folder with his spaceforce plans. But he'll never get it through congress.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 02, 2018, 11:17:26 am
Trump's statement wasn't anything but an appeal to the 'common man' who feels the same. Still, the only way I see to keep masses of people from crossing a border and staying indefinitely is to stop them crossing, or to move them into a camp, which would be less pleasant, and thus cause the follow-on migrants to reconsider. Australia has gone this route. Europe is actively considering it.

And yet, human rights in south/central American are way, way improved over what they were in Clinton's day.

Not sure where you are getting the idea that human rights are so "improved" in Central America but for most part any HR's exist only on paper or on some organizations "to do" list. Especially when you have violations being carried out not only by drug gangs but also by the police and the military.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 02, 2018, 12:00:09 pm
http://money.cnn.com/2018/07/02/news/economy/car-tariffs-europe-warning/index.html

HD was the beginning. 40% of Harleys are sold outside of the US. They sell 40,000 bikes a year in Europe, how many US built bikes would they sell now that the tariff has gone from 6% to 31%.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 02, 2018, 12:10:44 pm
http://money.cnn.com/2018/07/02/news/economy/car-tariffs-europe-warning/index.html

HD was the beginning. 40% of Harleys are sold outside of the US. They sell 40,000 bikes a year in Europe, how many US built bikes would they sell now that the tariff has gone from 6% to 31%.

As they say, nobody wins a trade war. And to respond to a post your post over on the Harper thread, I imagine there are a number of the sane world leaders (Not Kim) who see a loose cannon that has the firepower of a POTUS rattling so loosely around the decks, any trust will be gone as long as Trump is in the WH. Very damaging I expect.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 02, 2018, 12:16:05 pm
He probably figures that everything is going to be back to business as usual as soon as the trade fighting is done, but I doubt that's the case.   He's building ill will that's going to last.   When people think of proudly American products like Harley Davidson and Kentucky bourbon and Tennessee whisky, they're going to picture his ugly orange face and buy a competing brand instead.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 02, 2018, 12:16:45 pm
sane world leaders (Not Kim)

 >:(
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 02, 2018, 12:20:05 pm
>:(

The other Kim.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 02, 2018, 12:25:47 pm
Tariffs with the EU are all over the map but generally quite low. The EU charges 10% on cars compared to the US 2.5% but the US charges 14% on rail carriages compared to the EU's 1.7%. The US also charges 350% on raw tobacco and 130% on peanuts.

Trump's claim of wanting 100% free trade is just BS, something he could never deliver and knows it. The people he is dealing with also know it and don't take it seriously.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 02, 2018, 12:39:29 pm
Sounds like Cohen may be getting ready to flip. He's apparently not so ready to "take a bullet" for his past client, and I bet he has some stories to tell. Aside from some interesting headlines it seems that this administration has been nothing more than a soap opera since Trump got to the WH.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 02, 2018, 12:54:59 pm
Not sure where you are getting the idea that human rights are so "improved" in Central America but for most part any HR's exist only on paper or on some organizations "to do" list. Especially when you have violations being carried out not only by drug gangs but also by the police and the military.

True, there are some really authoritarian and crappy countries with wonderful sounding constitutions. You can start with Russia and I am actually starting to wonder where the US might be headed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 02, 2018, 01:23:46 pm
On my last trip to the US [maybe my last for awhile] there was a lady on the highway with a Trump sticker on her car.  Shitty driver and she looked like an idiot, but - hey - sample size of one so I'm sure they are all fine people.
...
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/us-politics/the-average-trump-supporter-is-not-an-economic-loser/article32746323/

Broke or not, the whole red-hat movement, and the Tea Party movement it came from, is based on a hatred of anything they perceive as "elite" or "elitist".

They talk about "the liberal elite," "the media elite," "the Democrat elitists," "the Hollywood elite," "the college elite," "the coastal elite" meaning "New York elitists" and "West Coast elitists", "the Washington elite", and on and on, with pure contempt. It's why Fox News is always so intent on contrasting themselves from "the mainstream media". They want their elite-hating viewers to understand that they're different from the other networks.

They hate academia and fancy-book-learning. They hate science and scientists and anybody else educated. They hate "experts" of any kind. They believe "common sense" and the Bible are all you need to understand anything.

They hate anything they perceive as snob culture, whether it be classical music or live theater or museums. And you can be sure they hate farm-to-table restaurants that serve artisan-crafted charcuterie and hand-crafted cheeses. 

And this doesn't describe all Republican voters, of course, but this describes the red-hat people who are Trump's most ardent supporters, the ones who'll be out there with their red hats and signs.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 02, 2018, 02:09:48 pm
Any bets as to whether Cohen has gone fishing in the Trump pardon pond?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 02, 2018, 02:11:40 pm
Tariffs with the EU are all over the map but generally quite low. The EU charges 10% on cars compared to the US 2.5% but the US charges 14% on rail carriages compared to the EU's 1.7%. The US also charges 350% on raw tobacco and 130% on peanuts.

Don't forget 292.21% on Bombardier C Series
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 02, 2018, 02:40:04 pm
And over 20% on lumber.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 02, 2018, 02:48:16 pm
And over 20% on lumber.

I guess that might be part of the reason Trump wants out of the WTO: every time the softwood lumber issue hits there the US loses. And mostly all that tariff ever did was drive up the cost of a stick built house in the US. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 02, 2018, 02:54:30 pm
I guess that might be part of the reason Trump wants out of the WTO: every time the softwood lumber issue hits there the US loses. And mostly all that tariff ever did was drive up the cost of a stick built house in the US.

If a country isn't in the WTO there is no point having a trade agreement with it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 02, 2018, 03:39:01 pm
...
Broke or not, the whole red-hat movement, and the Tea Party movement it came from, is based on a hatred of anything they perceive as "elite" or "elitist".

They talk about "the liberal elite," "the media elite," "the Democrat elitists," "the Hollywood elite," "the college elite," "the coastal elite" meaning "New York elitists" and "West Coast elitists", "the Washington elite", and on and on, with pure contempt. It's why Fox News is always so intent on contrasting themselves from "the mainstream media". They want their elite-hating viewers to understand that they're different from the other networks.

They hate academia and fancy-book-learning. They hate science and scientists and anybody else educated. They hate "experts" of any kind. They believe "common sense" and the Bible are all you need to understand anything.

They hate anything they perceive as snob culture, whether it be classical music or live theater or museums. And you can be sure they hate farm-to-table restaurants that serve artisan-crafted charcuterie and hand-crafted cheeses. 

And this doesn't describe all Republican voters, of course, but this describes the red-hat people who are Trump's most ardent supporters, the ones who'll be out there with their red hats and signs.

 -k

I'm picturing - if I knew your address - secretly ordering you a red MAGA hat from amazon. Then your face when you opened the box and saw it.  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on July 03, 2018, 02:45:09 pm
Sounds like Cohen may be getting ready to flip. He's apparently not so ready to "take a bullet" for his past client, and I bet he has some stories to tell. Aside from some interesting headlines it seems that this administration has been nothing more than a soap opera since Trump got to the WH.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 04, 2018, 12:40:09 am
I'm picturing - if I knew your address - secretly ordering you a red MAGA hat from amazon. Then your face when you opened the box and saw it.  ;D

In all seriousness, anti-intellectualism is a defining characteristic of the Tea Party/red-hat/Trumptard movement.  Suggesting it's an unfair stereotype to apply to those people is like suggesting that it's unfair to stereotype Luddites as being afraid of automation.

 -k

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 04, 2018, 03:37:08 am
It's unclear to me where this kind of politics can go, since they will never achieve the promises that they have made.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 04, 2018, 09:40:55 am

Do a lot of damage is where it can go.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 04, 2018, 09:44:11 am
Interesting perspective from the Mexican side.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trump-trade-gomez-baruah-1.4732736
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 04, 2018, 09:44:44 am
It's unclear to me where this kind of politics can go, since they will never achieve the promises that they have made.

They can just redefine the definition of success as they go along, so that they are always succeeding.

If you define success to be angering your enemies, they are succeeding bigly.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 04, 2018, 09:57:18 am
Interesting perspective from the Mexican side.

I am not sure how he thinks Canada/Trudeau is trying to appease Trump. Certainly we are not getting dragged down to Trump's level of childish rants, but responding in kind with tariffs is not what I would call appeasing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 04, 2018, 10:19:06 am
They can just redefine the definition of success as they go along, so that they are always succeeding.

If you define success to be angering your enemies, they are succeeding bigly.

 -k

How do you define angering your friends and making more enemies?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 04, 2018, 03:13:50 pm
How do you define angering your friends and making more enemies?

What enemies? North Korea has been placated for all time. Russia loves them. China is a big friend and throws nice parties for Trump. Who's left?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 04, 2018, 04:21:51 pm
What enemies? North Korea has been placated for all time. Russia loves them. China is a big friend and throws nice parties for Trump. Who's left?

All the countries that used to be friends and allies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 04, 2018, 06:08:33 pm
All the countries that used to be friends and allies.

We're not enemies. We just don't care for the current occupant of the white house.

I saw on some yankee TV show a few weeks back that when asked to articulate US foreign policy, some anonymous thingee at the White House described it as "No allies, and no enemies".

I think they're actually working better at eliminating the first group than the second but hey, what to I know..
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 04, 2018, 06:18:11 pm
We're not enemies. We just don't care for the current occupant of the white house.

I saw on some yankee TV show a few weeks back that when asked to articulate US foreign policy, some anonymous thingee at the White House described it as "No allies, and no enemies".

I think they're actually working better at eliminating the first group than the second but hey, what to I know..

Could be. Of course that also equals “no friends”. Everyone acts in their own self interest. Just because the US doesn’t want allies doesn’t mean others won’t form alliances that could care less about US interests.


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 04, 2018, 06:21:06 pm
Alliances come and go....   France and Britain were enemies...  The USA and Canada may drift apart and new alliances will be made.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 04, 2018, 06:59:47 pm
Alliances come and go....   France and Britain were enemies...  The USA and Canada may drift apart and new alliances will be made.

Exactly
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 04, 2018, 11:09:35 pm
Trump really doesn't need to spend billions of taxpayer s money building a wall around the US. He is building it all by himself with his blatant lies he keeps getting caught on, his trade wars against his best allies, his insults against those allied world leaders, and his cozying up murderous dictators such as Kim and Putin. I suspect the wall is well under way and Trump doesn't even have a clue about it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 05, 2018, 12:33:52 am
How do you define angering your friends and making more enemies?

As far as the red-hat people are concerned, the enemy can be whoever they're mad at this week.  If Big Daddy says that Canada is the enemy this week because we are "very unfair on trade", or because "bad faith Justin stabbed him in the back", then the red-hat people will rally around and cheer him on, because it's just tribalism.  They just want to cheer on their big orange hero, and he doesn't really give a crap about consequences as long as he keeps his voting base happy.  Maybe things will change once he crosses the wrong moneyed interests, or once the economic consequences of his actions impact enough people. Until then, not likely.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 05, 2018, 12:20:52 pm
So it's official, Trump has hired Bill Shine. Oh well that's just some more scum in the the swamp. Oh, you thought you heard Trump say he was going to "drain the swamp"?

https://www.buzzfeed.com/stevenperlberg/trump-fox-news-bill-shine-white-house-communications?utm_term=.lbAWXWVwLg#.gxyzxz37m5
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 05, 2018, 02:50:39 pm
Scott Pruitt finally resigns from the EPA. Even though Pruitt has an arms length list of scandals involving him, Trump tweets that he did such a stunning job. Maybe Donny will forward him a used mattress from Trump Hotel as a parting gift. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 05, 2018, 06:30:33 pm
Hopefully everyone read yesterday's editorial letter to Sarah Huckabee Sanders (https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2018/07/04/dear-ms-sanders-dont-talk-to-us-about-nice.html) in the Toronto Star.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 05, 2018, 10:23:16 pm
The statue of liberty's version of immigration:

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Donald Trump's version:

"Get off my lawn"

Take your pick. I think I can guess Argus' pick.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 06, 2018, 01:29:02 pm
Trump continues to demean and degrade the office he, for some reason now holds yet again with his speech yesterday in Montana as he babbles on about "Pocohantis" and mocks the "MeToo" movement. And the people in the room laughed. Trump seems bound and bent to turn the US into one of those "shithole" countries he talks about. He seems to enjoy life in the swamp and apparently his supporters do as well.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/05/politics/trump-montana-rally-pruitt-resigns/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 06, 2018, 04:01:56 pm
The statue of liberty's version of immigration:

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Donald Trump's version:

"Get off my lawn"

Take your pick. I think I can guess Argus' pick.

When the statue of liberty was erected immigrants got nothing from the government. They succeeded or failed and went home, or died, and nobody much cared which.
If you want to go back to that attitude towards immigrants I might change my mind some. But as long as they get full and complete government services they're not paying for, then no.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 06, 2018, 04:12:51 pm
When the statue of liberty was erected immigrants got nothing from the government. They succeeded or failed and went home, or died, and nobody much cared which.
If you want to go back to that attitude towards immigrants I might change my mind some. But as long as they get full and complete government services they're not paying for, then no.

What I certainly don't/won't degrade to is your attitude towards immigrants. You seem to think they are of no value which most of us know is completely stupid.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on July 06, 2018, 04:24:17 pm
"....yearning to breathe free...."

I think this is the part ^^^

Are they yearning to breathe free?  I'm sure most are.  But not all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 06, 2018, 04:32:33 pm
What I certainly don't/won't degrade to is your attitude towards immigrants. You seem to think they are of no value which most of us know is completely stupid.

Never said that. However, I also attach a cost, or try to. The government does its level best to not tell us how much these things cost, of course.
You can only assess them on an individual basis, when someone in media does a little check for some reason.

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/mandel-the-taxpayer-bill-keeps-rising-for-bogus-refugee-rapist-and-killer
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 06, 2018, 04:35:27 pm
It sure as hell isn't only immigrants who are criminals. Look at the current POTUS for an example. White as snow, ugly as ****. Loves to grab "women by the **** because I'm a star"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 06, 2018, 04:40:26 pm
Never said that. However, I also attach a cost, or try to. The government does its level best to not tell us how much these things cost, of course.
You can only assess them on an individual basis, when someone in media does a little check for some reason.

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/mandel-the-taxpayer-bill-keeps-rising-for-bogus-refugee-rapist-and-killer

You found a bad Black guy/immigrant story. Good for you now let's get out a huge paint brush and label them all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 06, 2018, 04:42:53 pm
You found a bad Black guy/immigrant story. Good for you now let's get out a huge paint brush and label them all.

Pointing out the pitfalls in letting any old trash come in and not doing our utmost to boot them fast when we should.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 06, 2018, 04:50:49 pm
Pointing out the pitfalls in letting any old trash come in and not doing our utmost to boot them fast when we should.

Yep this particular guy should have been chucked sooner. So should I base my approach to immigration based on this one case?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on July 06, 2018, 05:09:29 pm
It sure as hell isn't only immigrants who are criminals.

True.
But why import more of them?  I think we can and should be choosier and I think people like the  guy in that article should get the boot immediately.  We owe him nothing.  Was he "yearning to breathe free"?  Obviously not. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on July 06, 2018, 07:34:59 pm
Never said that. However, I also attach a cost, or try to. The government does its level best to not tell us how much these things cost, of course.
You can only assess them on an individual basis, when someone in media does a little check for some reason.

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/mandel-the-taxpayer-bill-keeps-rising-for-bogus-refugee-rapist-and-killer

Your complaints about immigrants are repeated every generation, about immigrants from every corner of the world.  "They don't fit, they won't work, they are criminals, they will drag Canada down."  They were wrong 150 years ago and they're wrong now. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 06, 2018, 08:00:46 pm
True.
But why import more of them?  I think we can and should be choosier and I think people like the  guy in that article should get the boot immediately.  We owe him nothing.  Was he "yearning to breathe free"?  Obviously not.

They didn't let Charles Manson in, he was borned and raised in "merica. Do we blame all Americans for what this one man did?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on July 06, 2018, 08:08:11 pm
They didn't let Charles Manson in, he was borned and raised in "merica. Do we blame all Americans for what this one man did?
He's not Muslim, so of course not!

I bet not a single immigrant from Australia, New Zealand, the UK, anywhere in Europe, Russia or Asia has ever committed a crime in Canada or the US. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 06, 2018, 08:16:29 pm
He's not Muslim, so of course not!

I bet not a single immigrant from Australia, New Zealand, the UK, anywhere in Europe, Russia or Asia has ever committed a crime in Canada or the US.

W.A.S.P.S don't commit crime no matter where they're from don't ya know?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 06, 2018, 10:34:46 pm
Even though I am the product of UK immigrants (Scottish) I am not a great fan of the Queen, however I do sympathize with her at having agreed to sit down with Trump on his upcoming visit to Europe. I'm sure she'll be able to have a small chat and then send him on his way to his real buddy/boss Putin.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 07, 2018, 11:48:53 am
It sure as hell isn't only immigrants who are criminals. Look at the current POTUS for an example. White as snow, ugly as ****. Loves to grab "women by the **** because I'm a star"

The point of the article isn't that an immigrant did a bad thing.  This case illustrates how ineffective the system is at dealing with people who abuse it.

Here's a guy who was caught being in Canada illegally but immediately claimed refugee status.  He gets to stay for a year collecting disability benefits while his claim is evaluated, then he's ordered deported. But he isn't deported. He appeals the ruling so that he can continue to stay in the country even longer and collect even more benefits. It would have been an irritating example of abuse of the system even if he hadn't committed 3 **** and a murder during the time he was abusing our refugee claim system.

Surely this can't sit well with anyone. At the very least, the legal and medical resources wasted on this awful person could have been spent helping real refugees who actually deserve our assistance.  And such flagrant abuse of our generosity will sooner or later make the system less kind to everyone who seeks asylum here, even legitimately so.

  -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 07, 2018, 12:06:19 pm
Your complaints about immigrants are repeated every generation, about immigrants from every corner of the world.  "They don't fit, they won't work, they are criminals, they will drag Canada down."  They were wrong 150 years ago and they're wrong now.

I hear this a lot from people who are terrified of actually thinking things through. 150 years ago if you were here illegally you were arrested, and almost immediately deported. 150 years ago we didn't spend YEARS in the courts while you stayed free to do as you wished. 150 years ago we didn't pay for your health care, your home, your clothing, your food or anything else about you. If this guy had come here 150 years ago he would have had to either work or die.  150 years ago Canada was a land of mostly unskilled labour. You could come here and as long as you worked hard there was work for you. This is not that Canada. This is a Canada of technology and communications. It is a Canada where people without education and skills find little success.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 07, 2018, 12:07:36 pm
They didn't let Charles Manson in, he was borned and raised in "merica. Do we blame all Americans for what this one man did?

So because we have child molesters, that's no reason to discriminate against child molesters who want to come and live here. That seems to be your attitude.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 07, 2018, 12:51:32 pm
The point of the article isn't that an immigrant did a bad thing.  This case illustrates how ineffective the system is at dealing with people who abuse it.

Agreed. the system is the problem, not the millions of good migrants that come here seeking a better home.

What fixes are needed to the system?

If an illegal immigrant commits a crime, do we immediately deport them in all cases? Wouldn't that make deportation a "get out of jail card" exclusively for illegal immigrants?

The real issue in this particular case seems to be legal aid. He was cut off from legal aid, but then provided with other legal services. I am not sure what rules drove that, but I would say that needs to be fixed. The other issue is the initial legal aid, should he have been provided any and/or should he have been cut off sooner.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 07, 2018, 12:54:20 pm
So because we have child molesters, that's no reason to discriminate against child molesters who want to come and live here. That seems to be your attitude.

No that's certainly not my attitude. But it seems to be your attitude to try and associate criminality with people who simply don't look like you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 07, 2018, 04:06:30 pm
Agreed. the system is the problem, not the millions of good migrants that come here seeking a better home.

What fixes are needed to the system?

The only way I can see is to tear down the current legal system and rebuild it so it doesn't take years for these things to make their torturous path through it, or pass new immigration law requiring limited appeals under the notwithstanding clause so the judges can't do or say a damned thing about it.

Btw, he wasn't an immigrant.

Quote
The real issue in this particular case seems to be legal aid. He was cut off from legal aid, but then provided with other legal services. I am not sure what rules drove that, but I would say that needs to be fixed. The other issue is the initial legal aid, should he have been provided any and/or should he have been cut off sooner.

You didn't read the cite, did you? He was provided with a lawyer, then another, then four more. He dismissed all of them, evidently in hopes of stringing things out longer.
And how in hell is that 'the real issue' anyway? You know before Trudeau's Charter these people weren't even provided with lawyers. They told their stories and provided their evidence, and then were accepted or rejected based on the merits.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 07, 2018, 04:43:04 pm
The only way I can see is to tear down the current legal system and rebuild it so it doesn't take years for these things to make their torturous path through it.
...
Btw, he wasn't an immigrant.
...
You didn't read the cite, did you?

I guess the question is how. Regardless if it is change to the current system, or a complete rebuild as you suggest, there are a lot of details that need to be filled in.
...
Sorry if I called him an immigrant, not quite sure where I did that but I will take your word for it. I tried to use the terms "migrant", and "illegal immigrant", but if you have better terminology then I will try to comply.
...
Yes, I did read the cite. Not sure where you get the idea I didn't. I asked the question should we have provided legal aid at all, or should he have been cut off sooner. I know it is easier to attack me than provide constructive answers, but its never too late to turn over a new leaf.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 07, 2018, 05:25:46 pm
[ I know it is easier to attack me than provide constructive answers, but its never too late to turn over a new leaf.
[/quote]

Much easier to retire to MLW where rednecks reign.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 07, 2018, 05:42:59 pm
You know before Trudeau's Charter these people weren't even provided with lawyers. They told their stories and provided their evidence, and then were accepted or rejected based on the merits.

I will ignore your use of "these people", and I know that Trudeau is the downfall of civilization for you, but I thought I would do some research on legal aid in Canada. I will focus specifically on Ontario, since the crimes took place in Etobicoke, and the legal system is mostly provincial.

In the 1950's, lawyers provided legal assistance in criminal cases on a voluntary basis. This voluntary service was not able to keep up with the demand, and the workload on the lawyers who volunteered became way to much. In 1967 the Ontario Legal Aid Plan was created, funded by the Ontario government and managed by the Law Society of Upper Canada. In the 1970's, legal clinics were established to provide legal services and advice beyond just criminal cases. Representation in court beyond criminal cases (e.g. family law) started in the 1980's. The 1990s saw many constraints on the system, and in the late 1990's they were addressed with the creation of Legal Aid Ontario.

From what I can see, the federal government got involved in legal aid in the 1990's. It provides some funding, but to the best of my knowledge the implementation is all provincial/territorial.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 07, 2018, 06:29:47 pm
I guess the question is how. Regardless if it is change to the current system, or a complete rebuild as you suggest, there are a lot of details that need to be filled in.


Accept all asylum claimants into custody, a refugee camp, as it were. They will not be allowed out into Canada unless accepted.
Give them an initial hearing within a week. There they can put their case.
If rejected, deport them immediately unless they appeal.
If they appeal, require the appeal be held within one week. If rejected, deport them immediately.
No access to our legal system. No free lawyer.
This would all have to be under a law passed using the Notwithstanding clause.

Do this, and instead of Nigerians and Haitians calling home from their comfy hotel room to tell their friends and relatives "Come on over! It's great here!' they'll be calling them and saying "Don't come. I'm in a guarded camp and I don't think they're gonna let me in anyway."

...
Quote
Yes, I did read the cite. Not sure where you get the idea I didn't. I asked the question should we have provided legal aid at all, or should he have been cut off sooner. I know it is easier to attack me than provide constructive answers, but its never too late to turn over a new leaf.

Your question made no sense in any context but the one I answered. Why was he given free legal aid? Because under the Singh decision anyone who steps a foot across the border has the full Charter protections of Canadians, including the right to full, paid legal representation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 07, 2018, 06:36:17 pm
I will ignore your use of "these people", and I know that Trudeau is the downfall of civilization for you, but I thought I would do some research on legal aid in Canada. I will focus specifically on Ontario, since the crimes took place in Etobicoke, and the legal system is mostly provincial.

In the 1950's, lawyers provided legal assistance in criminal cases on a voluntary basis. This voluntary service was not able to keep up with the demand, and the workload on the lawyers who volunteered became way to much. In 1967 the Ontario Legal Aid Plan was created, funded by the Ontario government and managed by the Law Society of Upper Canada. In the 1970's, legal clinics were established to provide legal services and advice beyond just criminal cases. Representation in court beyond criminal cases (e.g. family law) started in the 1980's. The 1990s saw many constraints on the system, and in the late 1990's they were addressed with the creation of Legal Aid Ontario.

From what I can see, the federal government got involved in legal aid in the 1990's. It provides some funding, but to the best of my knowledge the implementation is all provincial/territorial.

Very good. But none of that is actually relevant to refugees. It was the Singh decision, authored by Bertha Wilson, which extended full Canadian Charter protection, including the right to legal representation, to refugees and anyone else temporarily in Canada.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 07, 2018, 07:57:56 pm
So if Scott Pruitt wasn't the most ridiculous man to reun the EPA, Trump has now replaced him with Andrew (coal company ass kisser) Wheeler. I luv's that fuckin' coal smoke man, it's so good it brings tears to my eyes" i'd like to treat Trump to a whole White House full of it, ya know, since we Canucks burned it down once before according to him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 07, 2018, 09:18:32 pm
My vision of the upcoming Trump Putin meeting: Donald helping Vlady remove his shirt while Putin is on his phone arranging for the murder of the next guy who has spoken out against him while Donny gets down on his knees.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 08, 2018, 12:19:40 pm
The real issue in this particular case seems to be legal aid. He was cut off from legal aid, but then provided with other legal services. I am not sure what rules drove that, but I would say that needs to be fixed. The other issue is the initial legal aid, should he have been provided any and/or should he have been cut off sooner.

I think the the real problem is that an illegal alien caught red-handed can just avoid deportation by filing a bogus refugee claim and spend years fighting and appealing the results. Certainly the refugee system was never intended to provide people here illegally a way of fighting deportation for years.

I will ignore your use of "these people",

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1iV24hL8Rk

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on July 08, 2018, 04:01:42 pm
Trump continues to show how he is crappiest deal maker that ever lived as the promises made my NK to denuclearize went up in smoke 2 weeks later.

Of course, now that Trump has decided to go after China with trade sanctions you can bet any cooperation on NK is off the table.

The net result is Trump's "success" will be the unofficial recognition of NK as nuclear armed stated followed by Iran (The South Koreans, Japanese and Israelis will not be happy).

The f** everyone approach to negotiation will ultimately leave the US much much worse off but good luck convincing the Trumpettes of that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 08, 2018, 04:03:46 pm
Trump continues to show how he is crappiest deal maker that ever lived as the promises made my NK to denuclearize went up in smoke 2 weeks later.

Of course, now that Trump has decided to go after China with trade sanctions you can bet any cooperation on NK is off the table.

The net result is Trump's "success" will be the unofficial recognition of NK as nuclear armed stated followed by Iran.

The F** everyone approach to negotiation will ultimately level the US much much worse off but good luck convincing the Trumpettes if that.

Ah, but since he decided it was a huge success, even though he had no actual written agreement from them to do a damn thing,  he then felt free to go after China since he didn't need them any more. And now that he's committed to "peace in our time' he doesn't dare say anything else, at least until after the mid-term elections.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 08, 2018, 04:44:39 pm
Trump continues to show how he is crappiest deal maker that ever lived as the promises made my NK to denuclearize went up in smoke 2 weeks later.

Of course, now that Trump has decided to go after China with trade sanctions you can bet any cooperation on NK is off the table.

The net result is Trump's "success" will be the unofficial recognition of NK as nuclear armed stated followed by Iran (The South Koreans, Japanese and Israelis will not be happy).

The f** everyone approach to negotiation will ultimately leave the US much much worse off but good luck convincing the Trumpettes of that.

We have no idea what NK promised since it was a one on one meeting except for translators and they ain't gonna divulge a word, or they die.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 09, 2018, 12:09:17 pm
Trump lies with his numbers yet again saying the US pays 90% of the NATO budget when in fact it's actually about 22%, What kind of knuckle dragger must one be to support an idiot like this!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 09, 2018, 12:27:16 pm
Trump lies with his numbers yet again saying the US pays 90% of the NATO budget when in fact it's actually about 22%, What kind of knuckle dragger must one be to support an idiot like this!

All you have to be is someone who sees the claim on the news - un-contradicted. Very, very few have the time or interest in politics to look it up and find out whether it's right or not. You could say that to almost any Canadian and they'd just shrug, not knowing or caring.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 09, 2018, 12:34:44 pm
All you have to be is someone who sees the claim on the news - un-contradicted. Very, very few have the time or interest in politics to look it up and find out whether it's right or not. You could say that to almost any Canadian and they'd just shrug, not knowing or caring.

Well now I will take a turn at being assumptive and suggest that most Canadians have come to know that most of what comes out of Donald's mouth is bullshit. But in this particular case I think most Canadians know a little more about NATO budgets than you would give them credit for.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 09, 2018, 02:49:55 pm
Well now I will take a turn at being assumptive and suggest that most Canadians have come to know that most of what comes out of Donald's mouth is bullshit. But in this particular case I think most Canadians know a little more about NATO budgets than you would give them credit for.

Ever met any Canadians? They don't know a damn thing about a damn thing.
There was an item I read the other day which was a memo from a senior bureaucrat in the immigration department. It quoted a recent survey they took which showed strong support for current immigration levels. Then it warned the government should not talk about the numbers, because the majority of those who supported current levels, upon further questioning, thought those levels were under 150,000 per year. When informed of the actual number, acceptance dropped drastically.

Most Canadians spend very little time acquainting themselves with the facts. Even about their own government's behaviour.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 09, 2018, 04:00:41 pm
Ever met any Canadians? They don't know a damn thing about a damn thing.
There was an item I read the other day which was a memo from a senior bureaucrat in the immigration department. It quoted a recent survey they took which showed strong support for current immigration levels. Then it warned the government should not talk about the numbers, because the majority of those who supported current levels, upon further questioning, thought those levels were under 150,000 per year. When informed of the actual number, acceptance dropped drastically.

Most Canadians spend very little time acquainting themselves with the facts. Even about their own government's behaviour.

Yeah I've met a few Canadians, since I was born and raised in the country. Used to have lunch with John Crosbie once in a while. He seemed to know what was going on. Also met a lot of Americans. The Canucks had by far the better handle on the knowing a few damn things. You should get out more.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 09, 2018, 04:10:16 pm
So Trump has now stated quite clearly that he thinks "Putin is fine, he's fine, we're all fine". And of course he thinks Fat Kim Rocket Man is fine too. So so far he has pissed off many of the strongest allies the US has around the world, and taken two murderers under his arm and into his tent. I wonder if the rednecks in Alabama who support him will ever clue into those issues. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on July 09, 2018, 04:21:20 pm
I don't know how they legit reverse Roe v Wade.

100% Criminalization of Abortion has very low popularity in the US. Any democrat can point to any Senator that confirms this Justice and says, he's the guy who criminalized woman trying to abort fetuses after **** or Incest. The Campaign ads wright themselves.

I'd say they'd be cutting their nose to spite their face. States already do a good job restricting abortions if that's their political bent and reversing Roe V Wade won't make it illegal in states where it's not their political bent.

That being said the fact that Trump gets to name this Justice is a travesty and I hope the Republicans spends some serious time in the Political wilderness because of it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 09, 2018, 04:27:09 pm
Yeah I've met a few Canadians, since I was born and raised in the country. Used to have lunch with John Crosbie once in a while. He seemed to know what was going on. Also met a lot of Americans. The Canucks had by far the better handle on the knowing a few damn things. You should get out more.

So when the federal government bureaucracy says most Canadians don't even know how many immigrants are coming in that's my 'not getting out more'?
You go right ahead and ask anyone you know what they think the NATO budget is and report back on all the blank looks you get.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 09, 2018, 04:39:48 pm
So when the federal government bureaucracy says most Canadians don't even know how many immigrants are coming in that's my 'not getting out more'?
You go right ahead and ask anyone you know what they think the NATO budget is and report back on all the blank looks you get.

I don't imagine most Canadians wake up every morning thinking I must check where we're at with the NATO budget and how many immigrants came in yesterday. That's not their job. But to say "they don't know a damn thing about a damn thing" is ignorance at best and arrogance at worst.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 09, 2018, 09:03:05 pm
I don't imagine most Canadians wake up every morning thinking I must check where we're at with the NATO budget and how many immigrants came in yesterday. That's not their job. But to say "they don't know a damn thing about a damn thing" is ignorance at best and arrogance at worst.

You see, there's the difference between us. I never claimed to not be arrogant, whereas you continue to pretend against all evidence to the contrary not to be ignorant.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 09, 2018, 09:06:02 pm
You see, there's the difference between us. I never claimed to not be arrogant, whereas you continue to pretend against all evidence to the contrary not to be ignorant.

And all thaqt comment does is once again underscore your arrogance, and the other thing too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 09, 2018, 09:08:17 pm
So Trump has appointed a judge (Brett Kavanaugh) to the SCOTUS who has confirmed his intent to overturn Roe v Wade. So much for women's health care rights.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 09, 2018, 10:32:08 pm
I don't know how they legit reverse Roe v Wade.

100% Criminalization of Abortion has very low popularity in the US. Any democrat can point to any Senator that confirms this Justice and says, he's the guy who criminalized woman trying to abort fetuses after **** or Incest. The Campaign ads wright themselves.

If they don't overturn it outright, they'll just rubber stamp states' anti-abortion measures. In red states the right to get an abortion will be purely theoretical.

Blue state people who are mad about it can't do much about the red state senators that vote to approve Trump's new nominee.

Republicans got what they wanted, and even if the voters do punish them for it later, so what? Kavanaugh is 53. Gorsuch is 50.   Ruth Bader Ginsburg is 85, there's a chance Trump might get to appoint her replacement as well.   The US Supreme Court is going to have a conservative majority for potentially a long time to come.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 10, 2018, 12:15:48 pm
There is a campaign to make Green Day's American Idiot #1 in the UK this week. Looks like it might succeed.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/american-idiot-trump-uk-visit-green-day-protest-campaign-a8439871.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9NFs7qPwuk
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 10, 2018, 12:37:34 pm
Ah if we could only convince Her Majesty to have "American Idiot" playing in the background at Windsor Castle upon the American Idiot's arrival.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 10, 2018, 01:25:32 pm
Other than helicoptering in and out of the US embassy, Windsor is the closest he will get to London or any other city. More like a visiting fugitive than a head of state.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 10, 2018, 02:09:29 pm
Other than helicoptering in and out of the US embassy, Windsor is the closest he will get to London or any other city. More like a visiting fugitive than a head of state.

And how many of the crowds which will come out to scream anger at Trump would show up if the bloody murderous Putin showed up, or the dictator for life Xi?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 10, 2018, 02:22:28 pm
There is a campaign to make Green Day's American Idiot #1 in the UK this week. Looks like it might succeed.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/american-idiot-trump-uk-visit-green-day-protest-campaign-a8439871.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9NFs7qPwuk

You have to shake your head when you read the part in the article where Trump tells May he won't visit unless she banned protests. I'm sure Putin wouldn't have a problem doing that though.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 10, 2018, 02:32:54 pm
And how many of the crowds which will come out to scream anger at Trump would show up if the bloody murderous Putin showed up, or the dictator for life Xi?

Same amount.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 10, 2018, 02:36:09 pm
And how many of the crowds which will come out to scream anger at Trump would show up if the bloody murderous Putin showed up, or the dictator for life Xi?

Is it bad to expect more from our own western leaders? 

Also, when was the last time Putin went for a visit to Britain?   I’m pretty sure they’re not even allowing him into the country given his record of state sanctioned assassinations.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 10, 2018, 02:44:04 pm
Poor old Theresa May has enough problems currently with high level cabinet resignations, such as Boris Johnson for one, without having to deal with a childish brat like Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 10, 2018, 03:26:19 pm
Is it bad to expect more from our own western leaders? 

Also, when was the last time Putin went for a visit to Britain?   I’m pretty sure they’re not even allowing him into the country given his record of state sanctioned assassinations.

It's not bad to expect better. But it seems that brutal, repressive, murderous dictators never arouse much interest or condemnation from the same cadre of people who are always on hand to demonstrate furiously against any American politician they don't like, which is almost all of them. Putin comes next week, incidentally. I expect resident Russians expats, as well as eastern Europeans like Urkainians and Poles to be pretty much the only people in the streets protesting against him. Just as it was mostly Tibetans and expat Chinese who protested when Xi visited the Queen a couple of years ago.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 10, 2018, 11:24:24 pm
So now I'm getting to know a little bit about this Alex Azar prick. "We are showing acts of kindness" by ripping kids away from their parents. Where did Trump find these Nazi's and where did he find the brain dead mofo's that support them? Frightening! I'm starting to build a wall tomorrow!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 11, 2018, 11:42:06 am
Trump has kicked off the NATO meetings with his usual bull in a china shop antics. I'm sure Putin is enjoying the news hoping the cracks in the alliance continue to widen.

https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-nato-summit-rips-into-germany/

U.S. President Donald Trump laced into Germany ahead of a high-stakes NATO leaders’ summit in Brussels, declaring at a breakfast meeting Wednesday morning that Germany is “totally controlled by Russia” and lashing out at the controversial Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline project.

Trump’s remarks appeared to stun NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg, who has been working hard to convince Trump that NATO allies are responding to the president’s repeated demands for increased military spending.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 11, 2018, 12:10:28 pm
The US gets most of its oil and gas imports from Canada and without Canadian electricity, a good part of the US grid would go black. So what does that make the US?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 11, 2018, 12:51:14 pm
Well at least Trump was able to get into position for the "class photo" this time without pushing and elbowing people out of his way so he could get out in front.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 11, 2018, 12:55:58 pm
Good idea brits, go low to play to Trump's level.

Man we live in strange times.  It's like the media has become the Jerry Springer show and the paternity tests results are in!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 11, 2018, 01:11:55 pm
The newsmedia has become a joke, it's become a lot of partisan smearing, some disguised as "legit news" more than others.  The news has become like US Congress.  Wherever we get our news seems more and more to have either a right slant or a left slant, some worse than others of course.  What's the point in even caring about world events anymore when trying to get the unslanted facts about is so hard.

Trump has literally turned politics into a bad reality TV show.  Elections are like watching The Bachelor, who will get voted off this week? 

Establishment politicians are so bad, so elitist, so paid off by special interests that hurts regular voters, with BS shoved so far up their butts and so much insincere PC spindoctor vomit spewing out of their mouths that people feel they have to turn to utter morons like Doug Ford & Trump because they're the only ones willing to say how they actually feel and get the things done a lot of people want.

Then all this happens and the outrage arms race of the left and right just keeps amping up because everyone is so damned stupid & resentful.  Trump & Ford are so dumb but so are people like Trudeau & Wynne, and hopefully this all implodes soon and we realize that we need reasonable, informed people to lead us.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 11, 2018, 01:20:11 pm
I'll be interested to see what Trump and Ford get done that a lot of people want. I guess there are those who are googly eyed over the buck a beer idea, but I wonder how many of them understand the importance of NATO that Trump is screwing around with just now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 11, 2018, 01:59:40 pm
The US gets most of its oil and gas imports from Canada and without Canadian electricity, a good part of the US grid would go black. So what does that make the US?

Canada is not a hostile power run by a brutal dictatorship in the habit of attacking its neighbours.
Trump is absolutely correct in his complaints.

Do you know that a short time back it was revealed that Germany had exactly four fighter aircraft in full operational combat order? Their troops had to use broomsticks for a NATO exercise. Most of the strength of NATO comes from the US because the other NATO allies have let their military funding dwindle so they could spend the money on more palatable and politically popular social welfare programs.

And the Germans already get 20% of their gas from Russia. The new pipeline could double that, and make them extremely vulnerable to Moscow's demands.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 11, 2018, 02:01:32 pm
I'll be interested to see what Trump and Ford get done that a lot of people want. I guess there are those who are googly eyed over the buck a beer idea, but I wonder how many of them understand the importance of NATO that Trump is screwing around with just now.

If NATO is important its members ought to fund it properly.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 11, 2018, 02:01:46 pm
I'll be interested to see what Trump and Ford get done that a lot of people want. I guess there are those who are googly eyed over the buck a beer idea, but I wonder how many of them understand the importance of NATO that Trump is screwing around with just now.

Trump isn't dismantling NATO, he wants other countries to spend more to actually strengthen it and live up to their NATO obligations.  That fact he talks and acts like a complete ass while expressing this and every issue doesn't remove the fact that a lot of Americans don't want to be the world's police anymore, spending so much $$ and lives to protect every other NATO member's security.  Let's face it, Canada relies heavily on US's military for our own security. 

A lot of people want immigration fixed, they're sick of their jobs moving overseas, they're sick of Wynne/NDP spending gazillions on government debt for programs we can't afford, they're sick of paying crazy taxes to reduce carbon when the major emitters don't do sh!t.  Unfortunately only the complete a-hole blow-hards like Trump & Ford seem to be willing to do anything about these things.  I don't like these human beings and a lot of people don't them either but i understand why they get votes.  I think a lot of people would rather something be done by idiots who will do it rudely and harshly & stupidly than nothing be done at all and the problems just getting worse.

Voters just want change because the status quo always seems to suck & get worse.  A lot of people disliked Harper so they vote JT and now people are souring on Trudeau, it's like going from one extreme to another.  They disliked Bush so they vote for change in his opposite (Obama).  Then they're still disillusioned so vote for change in Trump.  They dislike Wynne's policies so vote for change in Ford rather than more of the same in Horwath.  The swing voters are the least ideological/partisan and they're the ones who decide elections, and they seem the most reasonable but rarely get that in our politics.  They're less about supporting Dems or GOP at all costs and just hate congress altogether cuz they suck.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 11, 2018, 02:10:37 pm
Canada is not a hostile power run by a brutal dictatorship in the habit of attacking its neighbours.
Trump is absolutely correct in his complaints.

Do you know that a short time back it was revealed that Germany had exactly four fighter aircraft in full operational combat order? Their troops had to use broomsticks for a NATO exercise. Most of the strength of NATO comes from the US because the other NATO allies have let their military funding dwindle so they could spend the money on more palatable and politically popular social welfare programs.

And the Germans already get 20% of their gas from Russia. The new pipeline could double that, and make them extremely vulnerable to Moscow's demands.

You think Trump is absolutely correct with regard to his comments on NATO? OMG, he said in a speech the other day that the US paid 90% of NATO, when of course it's actually 22%. Try again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 11, 2018, 02:29:31 pm
You think Trump is absolutely correct with regard to his comments on NATO? OMG, he said in a speech the other day that the US paid 90% of NATO, when of course it's actually 22%. Try again.

But we're not talking about that claim. We're talking about his demand other nations live up to their commitments to spend sufficient on their militaries that, combined, they prove a deterrent to foreign aggression. Canada, of course, is one of the key shirkers, spending as little as we can get away with. Instead, Trudeau is offering up the bodies of Canadian soldiers to appease the US, sending them to Iraq and Latvia so we can claim we're doing 'our share'. But the main point of the alliance is that when a potential foreign aggressor adds up the tanks, troops, planes and ships he is deterred. And there isn't a lot to add from most of NATO.

Canada, in fact, is spending less this year than last. And Trudeau seems to be almost bragging about Canada having absolutely no intention of living up to the 2% commitment. While most other nations are set to reach that level by 2024, Canada doesn't even plan to get to 1.5% by 2026.

The combined defence budget of NATO nations has grown by $14.4 billion since 2016, with all but one of the countries increasing their spending and 26 contributing troops to NATO missions. “Sixteen — but not Canada — are on track to spend the NATO target of 2 per cent of their gross domestic product on defence by 2024,” notes a primer for the summit released by the Canadian Global Affairs Institute.
Canada, sturdy participant in combat and security operations, including a 12-year boots on the ground campaign in Afghanistan and a Canadian lieutenant-general who directed the air campaign that toppled the Gadhafi regime in 2011, is in the middling middle of defence spending, currently at 1.29 per cent of GDP, with a projected target of 1.4 per cent by 2026.


https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2018/07/10/i-hate-to-say-it-but-trump-is-right-about-canadas-military-spending.html

A new report released by NATO ahead of the summit predicted Canada would spend 1.23 per cent of its GDP on defence this year — less, it turns out, than last year’s level of 1.36 per cent, leaving Canada ranked 18th out of the alliance’s 29 members.


https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/newsalert-canada-extending-mission-in-latvia-adding-more-troops
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 11, 2018, 02:46:31 pm
Can reasonable informed people get elected anymore? One hopes so, but also wonders.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 11, 2018, 02:57:21 pm
Can reasonable informed people get elected anymore? One hopes so, but also wonders.

Check out the British backbench MP I posted a video of...

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 11, 2018, 03:14:03 pm
Check out the British backbench MP I posted a video of...

What post was that, there are over 2000 of them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 11, 2018, 03:14:22 pm
Can reasonable informed people get elected anymore? One hopes so, but also wonders.

I don't really understand why they don't.  I think a lot of them stay out of politics altogether because with 24hr news & social media it makes a huge toll on you & your family, everything is blown out of proportion & everyone is in outrage mode.  A reasonable person might tend to stay out of politics, while ideological activists or narcissists seeking power & fame on left & right dive in.

But we also see more & more extremes in ideological thinking these days so centrists are becoming rarer, so would a centrist even get many votes these days?  I mean Rob Ford beat out Christine Elliot, she seemed more reasonable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 11, 2018, 03:21:50 pm
And hey once Trump gets done pissing off his actual allies in NATO, he can move on the "easiest part" of his overseas trip when he gets to sit down one on one with his boss Putin. God only knows what kind of shyte will emerge from that. Maybe he'll get Putin to denuclearize just like he did Rocket Man. Yay.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 11, 2018, 04:11:45 pm
Trump also keeps spouting off that NATO members own the US money. Obviously he doesn't have much of an understanding of how the system works in the first place. But of course he also said the US was paying 90% of NATO budget which is also totally wrong. Can this man read?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 11, 2018, 08:42:57 pm
What post was that, there are over 2000 of them.

https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/general-discussion/interesting-videos/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 11, 2018, 08:58:23 pm
I don't really understand why they don't. 

There are several reasons. First, for a man of considerable abilities, the job of an MP in Canada is pretty damned pathetically unimportant and unchallenging. You are totally in the grip of the party. You can't say what you want. You can't do what you want. Your job in parliament is to sit there and then vote as you're told. If you're appointed to a committee of some sort, well, that's more work, but you still don't get to make the decisions there. You're a nobody gopher, and the salary isn't all that impressive for men of ability and means. If you're any sort of executive you probably make as much or more, with fewer restraints on your behavior, and less need to put up with bullshit from morons.

I could give you something similar for the US. You have more individual power from the party, but only at the expense of being the **** of your campaign donors. Think a big corporation shouldn't be getting public subsidies? Tough. You have to vote for it because they donated money to you. Think your party's position is unreasonable and extreme? Tough, because if you're seen as a moderate willing to compromise you'll get outlflanked on the Left/right at the next primary. And you have to spend more time begging rich people for money than you spend trying to govern and read legislation. Why take a job where you're going cap in hand to people every single freaking week when you can make more at your regular job?

Just not worth it. Which leaves the field clear for, well, some very ambitious, self-serving people of no great accomplishment. To them the salary is pretty good, and they're willing to put up with it and kiss a lot of ass in hopes of becoming a cabinet minister or something else with a semblance of real power. Oh, not everyone falls into that category. You still get some people who are genuinely interested in politics and government and hope to make a real positive change. But most of these people are not exactly towering intellects of amazing accomplishments. They're just very ordinary men and women into politics in a big way.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 11, 2018, 09:03:58 pm
I got a kick out of the responses of Pompeo, and especially John Kelly, when Trump started out the NATO meetings by insulting Angela Merkel at breakfast. But what was really hilarious, (in a warped humor sort of way) was how chief spokeswoman/lier Sarah Sanders tried to cover it up saying Kelly was simply responding to the breakfast menu.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 12, 2018, 02:29:40 pm
Not surprising that Trump would emerge from the NATO meetings misrepresenting what actually was agreed to in those meetings, according to a number of the other attendees. Oh well now he is getting his ego stroked in the UK, although I wonder if he has caught on to why he is being kept so far away from London. I wish they could fly the Trump baby balloon over Oxfordshire just now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 12, 2018, 09:09:59 pm
Hey if anybody out there suffered through even portions of what went on for ~ 10 hours on Capital Hill today you would have to conclude that Putin has been very successful in stirring discord within the US government, and on the eve of Trump's one on one with Putin. Scary!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 13, 2018, 11:18:34 am
Hey I wonder if Trump will ask Putin if any of the 12 GRU members Mueller has just indicted for hacking the 2016 election are any of his close buddies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 13, 2018, 12:26:25 pm
Of course Trump knew these indictments were coming down well before today so I wonder if that led to his wish for a one on one meting with Putin. Oh to be a fly on the wall for that one.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 13, 2018, 01:14:03 pm
Imagine just how dumb Trump would look if Putin did a last minute cancellation of the meeting in Helsinki in retaliation over the indictments made public today. Wow.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 13, 2018, 02:45:12 pm
For writing 6 posts in a row when 1 (or none) would do, I gave you a series of “dumbs”.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on July 13, 2018, 02:52:49 pm
For writing 6 posts in a row when 1 (or none) would do, I gave you a series of “dumbs”.

For saying something funny, I gave you a "funny".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 13, 2018, 03:08:17 pm
For writing 6 posts in a row when 1 (or none) would do, I gave you a series of “dumbs”.

Speaking of "dumb" do I detect a Trump fan?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 13, 2018, 09:54:05 pm
Speaking of "dumb" do I detect a Trump fan?

Just as I thought.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 13, 2018, 09:55:19 pm
Giuliani makes a fool of himself yet again. I hope Trump's not paying him much.

The indictments Rod Rosenstein announced are good news for all Americans. The Russians are nailed. No Americans are involved. Time for Mueller to end this pursuit of the President  and say President Trump is completely innocent.
9:53 AM - Jul 13, 2018
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 14, 2018, 02:25:11 pm
Trump continues to underscore his hypocrisy by trying to blame Obama for Russian hacking as he prepares to cozy up to Putin.

On Saturday, from Scotland, the US president tweeted: “The stories you heard about the 12 Russians yesterday took place during the Obama Administration, not the Trump Administration. Why didn’t they do something about it, especially when it was reported that President Obama was informed by the FBI in September, before the Election?”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/14/donald-trump-robert-mueller-indictments-barack-obama-russia
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 14, 2018, 08:22:31 pm
Trump is now saying he wants to repaint Air Force One. Apparently he is leaning toward a similar scheme as he has on his own plane, and therefore of course try to ignore the history that goes with this plane. Could this little **** ants ego become any more inflated without exploding? Perhaps he could save wasting a lot of taxpayer money and simply have the crew trail the Baby Trump blimp behind the plane whenever he taxis in somewhere. Psst, don't tell him the blimp is meant as a joke.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on July 15, 2018, 02:40:21 am
oh the humanity! Sean Hannity!

(https://i.imgur.com/WS5ePWo.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 15, 2018, 09:12:00 am
Trump is now saying he wants to repaint Air Force One. Apparently he is leaning toward a similar scheme as he has on his own plane, and therefore of course try to ignore the history that goes with this plane.

Nothing new there, just another page he tore from Stephen Harper's playbook; rebranding. Canada leads the way.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 15, 2018, 11:46:30 am
Nothing new there, just another page he tore from Stephen Harper's playbook; rebranding. Canada leads the way.

Uh, you actually think Trump read a book?
You actually think he knew anything about Stephen Harper?

This is just another way to get a shot at Harper. You seem to be as obsessed with him as the Tea Party types are about Hillary Clinton and Barrack Obama.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on July 15, 2018, 11:58:02 am
Nothing new there, just another page he tore from Stephen Harper's playbook; rebranding. Canada leads the way.

clearly! Somehow, under Harper, (Conservative) BLUE became an official colour for Canada!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 15, 2018, 12:02:33 pm
Nothing new there, just another page he tore from Stephen Harper's playbook; rebranding. Canada leads the way.

I don't imagine Harper used party funds to put the Airbus in party colors. So I imagine the US taxpayer will also get the bill for Trump's paint job
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 15, 2018, 03:32:14 pm
This is proposed for the new Airforce 1,  The present paint job is far too classy for that mook. Anything he picks will be far more appropriate. Problem is, when he goes, they will have to change it back to something classy again. Around $150,000 for the paint alone and 2 crews working two shifts for about 2 weeks to paint a B747. That's for regular aircraft paint, AF1 probably uses some super expensive anti something or other paint. And of course there are 2 aircraft, not just one.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 15, 2018, 05:08:45 pm
I could see him doing something similar as with his own plane by having his name plastered down both sides of the gd thing in as big o' letters as you can fit on a 747 save for enough room for his orange visage next to it and with a night light so you can see it in the dark hours as well. Whatever he does I would expect to be yet another embarrassment for the people who'll pay for it. (Base excluded of course) Hey maybe he will put Putin on one side.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 15, 2018, 07:36:47 pm
This is proposed for the new Airforce 1,  The present paint job is far too classy for that mook. Anything he picks will be far more appropriate. Problem is, when he goes, they will have to change it back to something classy again. Around $150,000 for the paint alone and 2 crews working two shifts for about 2 weeks to paint a B747. That's for regular aircraft paint, AF1 probably uses some super expensive anti something or other paint. And of course there are 2 aircraft, not just one.

$150,000 is like about 2 hours of money that Trump wastes on his trips to Mar-a-Lago most weekends. It's peanuts.   Let him paint it solid gold like his toilet, and put his name on the sides in big shiny letters. Let him pick out a paint job that will let everybody know what an insecure, overcompensating loser he is.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 15, 2018, 07:37:57 pm
Hudson Bay Company pulls failing, low-selling Ivanka fashion products from their shelves! They can't even give away Ivanka products!  SAD!

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 15, 2018, 07:40:23 pm
Theresa May revealed the super-secret Brexit advice Donald Trump gave her at their private meeting:  "don't negotiate, just sue them!" She all but laughed at Trump as she dismissed it.

Stable genius at work!

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 15, 2018, 09:10:46 pm
After trying to talk Macron into leaving the EU, Trump tells the Sun that Britain getting a favourable soft Brexit with the EU will kill any chance of a trade agreement with the US. The Brits are now learning that they are just a tool for Trump to get at his real objective, dismantling the EU.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 16, 2018, 09:21:27 am
The Trumptard In Chief is apparently now behind closed doors with Putin, without a nanny.

Even disregarding the possibility that Trump is completely compromised by the Russians, it remains a fact that Trump is simply too dumb to be trusted with Putin without a supervisor.  Remember the time he shared top-secret Israeli intel with Sergei Lavrov?   Why did he do that?  Either he's a Russian puppet, or he's just too dumb to be trusted.  But there he is, behind closed doors with a criminal mastermind.

Trump and Putin apparently played a game of trying to see who could arrive latest to the meeting today. Both guys like to make other people wait for them to arrive. It shows dominance, apparently.  Putin's plane didn't even land until after the meeting was supposed to start, but Trump didn't leave his hotel until Putin was already at the venue. Trump won, apparently.   Winning bigly!

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 16, 2018, 09:44:23 am
Each competing to see who has the worst manners. Surprise, Trump won.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 16, 2018, 10:31:17 am
Just listening to Trump at the news conference. I truly think I could read better when I was in grade 3. Putin said in his remarks that there was no intrusion by Russia into the 2016 election and that seems to be about it. As we figured would happen.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 16, 2018, 11:21:12 am
Trump just made a complete and utter disgrace of himself, (yet again) and this time he did it on the world stage. Bad day to be an American.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 16, 2018, 04:40:39 pm
People's expectations were so low, and he still failed them.

It's weird for me to read so many Left of Centres defending the nationalism/military status quo, but it seems to me that we have never had a threat like this.  I don't think it's hypocrisy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 16, 2018, 07:18:43 pm

You know Donnie, after all your denying, claiming fake news, attacking your own security agencies, Congress and media, all I would have to say is, yup, we did all that stuff and it wouldn't even need to be true. You would look like a proper weenie, the worlds laughing stock. You did all by yourself so be a good boy, go out there and tell them what your buddy Vlad says.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 16, 2018, 07:48:42 pm
Pretty bad when even FOX news and Newt Gingrich are condemning him.

https://www.politicususa.com/2018/07/16/fox-news-turns-on-trump-after-putin-press-conference-disaster.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 16, 2018, 07:55:35 pm
I haven't tuned into fox for a few hours but I bet Hannity will figure a way to put lipstick on his favorite pig.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 16, 2018, 08:02:23 pm
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1018977548330569729

Trump Republican Trouble Scale:

Quote
10.0 Hannity
9.9 Pence
9.2 Fox & Friends
8.8 Tucker Carlson
7.5 McConnell
7.0 Laura Ingram
6.8 Gingrich
6.7 Coulter
6.1 Joe Walsh
5.5 DRUDGE
5.0 Paul Ryan
4.8 WSJ Edit Page
4.4 Ben Shapiro
3.6 Graham
2.6 McCain
1.4 Jeff Flake
0.1 Bret Stephens
0.0 Kasich

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 16, 2018, 08:48:19 pm
I haven't tuned into fox for a few hours but I bet Hannity will figure a way to put lipstick on his favorite pig.

 -Hillary's emails
 -remember in 2012 when Obama told Dmitri Medvedev "blah blah blah" well how is this any worse than that, the left are such hypocrites.
 -more about crooked Hillary
 -why is peace with Russia a bad thing? the left are acting like better relations with Russia is a bad thing. Why does the left want war?
 -Hillary did this, Hillary did that. emails. Emails everywhere.
 -Mueller probe is terrible, a terrible terrible thing that is a total witch hunt and trying to make our friends the Russians into some kinds of villains.
 -Trump is a great great man, it's pathetic that the partisan hacks can't see it.
 -ps, Hillary Hillary Hillary.

 -k
 {Hillary.}
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 16, 2018, 08:53:55 pm
Thanks for the update. Not surprised of course. At least hearing it here keeps me from screaming obscenities at the TV screen. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 16, 2018, 09:01:33 pm
Part of Trump's appeal to the low-brow right and alt-right was his tough-guy image, the idea that he's a big alpha-male who tells it like it is and doesn't care who he offends.  They were tired of soft-spoken polite people like Barack Obama or Mitt Romney. They wanted a real man, a big alpha-male in charge.

After today, it's abundantly clear that Trump isn't that guy.  Despite his fawning admiration of guys like Putin and Ergogan and Dutarde and even Li'l Kim, Trump isn't one of those guys... he's just a wanna-be.  A poseur.  A guy who puts on a tough-guy act, but when the chips are down is as spineless as they come.  It was already pretty obvious, but at this point it's obvious even to Trump's biggest cheerleaders.  He is, to put it in terms the alt-right would understand, a "beta cuck".

But even after seeing their big orange hero give Putin a rim-job in front of the whole world today, the alt-right are still ecstatic.  Why? Because "the left" are furious.  That's literally the only priority the alt-right have at this point. If it makes "the left" mad, that's a win as far as the alt-right are concerned.  Putin could have given Trump a bare-bottom spanking and dressed him in a diaper in front of the whole world and the alt-right would still think it's the greatest thing ever.   

 -k

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 16, 2018, 09:02:29 pm
Thanks for the update. Not surprised of course. At least hearing it here keeps me from screaming obscenities at the TV screen.

I didn't watch Hannity... that was just my prediction of what his show was going to be about tonight.

 -k
 {"Hey look. Here's a car chase." -Hannity.}
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 16, 2018, 09:15:35 pm
Sounds like Hannity.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 16, 2018, 09:22:47 pm
Quote
After that display, Special Counsel Robert Mueller is safer in his job than the guy selling aloe vera at the **** beach.

Sheppard Smith, FOX News
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 16, 2018, 09:35:25 pm
Did we all notice how Putin danced around the question as to if he had any damaging information about Trump's visit to Russia before becoming POTUS? Miss Universe pageant for instance. I wonder if the goods he's got pn Yrump there is why Trump is such a lap dog.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 17, 2018, 01:50:03 am
Those of you who don't watch Game of Thrones won't get this reference...   those who do will cringe at how spot-on it is.

(https://i.imgur.com/i8hgwVr.jpg)

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on July 17, 2018, 08:04:55 am
Why? Because "the left" are furious.  That's literally the only priority the alt-right have at this point. If it makes "the left" mad, that's a win as far as the alt-right are concerned.
I tried making the case on a right wing forum that Trump had done some good and deserves credit but that is not a reason to ignore his grotesque ethical failings, endless lies, and appalling ignorance of economics. I got called a "liberal/marxist/socialist moron" and was treated to a long explanation on how the FBI is on a witch hunt trying to take down a democratically elected leader.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 17, 2018, 09:54:23 am
I tried making the case on a right wing forum that Trump had done some good and deserves credit but that is not a reason to ignore his grotesque ethical failings, endless lies, and appalling ignorance of economics. I got called a "liberal/marxist/socialist moron" and was treated to a long explanation on how the FBI is on a witch hunt trying to take down a democratically elected leader.

Mueller's "witch hunt" keeps turning up witches. Trump and his followers seem to believe that Mueller's investigation is about Trump.  It's actually about Russian meddling, and the 12 indictments Friday and the arrest of Maria Butina on Monday show that he's doing his job.   Trump seems to be psychologically incapable of separating the issue of Russian meddling from the accusation of collusion... maybe that's the sign of a guilty conscience, or maybe he's just so dumb that he doesn't understand the difference. 

Some have said that Trump's supporters have the characteristics of a cult.  It seems like there's little chance of trying to reason with them.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on July 17, 2018, 10:02:58 am
Quote
Some have said that Trump's supporters have the characteristics of a cult.  It seems like there's little chance of trying to reason with them.

I see more and more cult-like thinking in his supporters, too.

It's bizarre/frustrating/mind-boggling how the ultra-religious jump through mental hoops to give him a pass on everything - the adultery, the lying, the ****, the shady business dealings - while at the same time demanding their fellow citizens adhere to and accept their religious views.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 17, 2018, 10:44:07 am
Apparently Trump got a little testy when he turned on the TV in AF 1 on the way home from Helsinki and heard the latest/ seriously bad press (even from his buddies at the Real Fake News Fox) so he got his tweeter account fired up and made a feeble attempt at backtracking. Then poor little Sarah Sanders had to hand carry that nonsense to the press cabin on the plane because there was no WiFi there. I can imagine the frowns on people's faces she had to endure on that little mission.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/trump-tweets-printed-for-reporters-air-force-one-2018-7
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 17, 2018, 11:10:00 am
Mueller's "witch hunt" keeps turning up witches. Trump and his followers seem to believe that Mueller's investigation is about Trump.  It's actually about Russian meddling, and the 12 indictments Friday and the arrest of Maria Butina on Monday show that he's doing his job.   
 -k

It would not surprise me if, by now, given the Republican meddling with Mueller, the FBI has not launched a second, quieter investigation, in conjunction with the CIA and NSA, of Trump himself, all those currently around him, and any and all possible contacts they might have with Russia. If I was in charge of US intelligence agencies I would have everyone who comes into any contact with Trump under surveillance, their houses, phones and internet bugged. Hell, I'd bug the oval office and the white house residence, including his bathroom. Warrant? **** warrants. This is too important to worry about that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 17, 2018, 11:18:44 am
Yeah, let's just hope the US recreates Russia right on our doorstep.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 17, 2018, 11:44:39 am
Even Rupert Murdoch's Sun.

Some of these are priceless.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6798039/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-summit-meeting-memes/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on July 17, 2018, 01:19:13 pm
Sheppard Smith, FOX News

Yeah, but he's one of the sane ones.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 17, 2018, 01:28:16 pm
Yeah, but he's one of the sane ones.

Wasn't just him though. Cavuto, Huntsman, Varney and others who were just tongue tied. Of course the usual Trump mouth pieces, Carlson, Hannity etc won't change.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 17, 2018, 01:34:15 pm
For Abby Huntsman to say Trump threw the American people and country under the bus is a pretty damning statement from a Fox and Friends host. Her dad is ambassador to Russia. Wonder how he is feeling today.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 17, 2018, 01:59:51 pm
Still, it's not like they haven't willfully closed their eyes to obvious collusion before. At first I thought that press conference went too far for even the most liberal-hating Republicans to ignore, but then I realized who we're dealing with. Putin was good enough to throw them a Hillary bone to chew on while he was humiliating them by showing Trump to be the puppet that everybody knew he was. Even though if you look at the background behind the Hillary bone Putin was kind of trolling them, it still gave them something to "what about" about.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on July 17, 2018, 02:03:49 pm
Yesterday's spectacle in Helsinki proves Donald Trump'd engaging in oral sex on Putin in public was hard for many people to swallow not just him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 17, 2018, 02:18:17 pm
Even Rupert Murdoch's Sun.

Some of these are priceless.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6798039/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-summit-meeting-memes/

Rupert Murdoch can suck my dick. He's the one who created and owns FOX news. He could reposition them as a conservative news outlet, not a populist network that slobbers on Trump's feet, any time he wanted. He has not chosen to do so.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 17, 2018, 02:24:54 pm
For Abby Huntsman to say Trump threw the American people and country under the bus is a pretty damning statement from a Fox and Friends host. Her dad is ambassador to Russia. Wonder how he is feeling today.

Possibly like the rug has been pulled out from under him? Unless he has become a Putin fan too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 17, 2018, 02:43:23 pm
Just hearing that some of the "big boys" from national security, Bolton etc., are in the situation room trying to conjure up some sort of a response to try and paper over the now infamous press conference. So far ir seems all they can come up with is to try to convince us that just a few words were misspoken by Trump. They have my sympathy, sort of.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 17, 2018, 04:16:05 pm
Rupert Murdoch can suck my dick. He's the one who created and owns FOX news. He could reposition them as a conservative news outlet, not a populist network that slobbers on Trump's feet, any time he wanted. He has not chosen to do so.

I completely agree about Murdoch, he’s a scumbag but do you think this might be Trump’s, Chamberlain Munich moment?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on July 17, 2018, 06:40:11 pm
I completely agree about Murdoch, he’s a scumbag but do you think this might be Trump’s, Chamberlain Munich moment?
Was the folly of Chamberlain's Munich moment immediately known or was it only apparent in hindsight?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 17, 2018, 07:45:20 pm
Was the folly of Chamberlain's Munich moment immediately known or was it only apparent in hindsight?

It had immediate reaction, 15,000 demonstrated against it at Trafalgar Square, 3 times as many who greeted him at #10. Labour spokesman Hugh Dalton said the piece of paper was ripped right out of Mein Kampf and Isaac Asimov forecast a war in 1940. He later said "I was too conservative".

On edit

Of course there was Churchill who had been had been warning about Hitler from the beginning but he was in the political wilderness at the time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 17, 2018, 09:00:38 pm
I MEANT TO SAY WOULDN'T !
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 17, 2018, 09:15:14 pm
Yep, that clears the whole mess up. Putin must have sent him a message.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 17, 2018, 09:23:29 pm
It's fun watching the conservitards, especially the size 9 neck, size 4 hat ones trying to mop up the mess Trump most recently left behind. So far they haven't come close.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 18, 2018, 12:22:37 am
I MEANT TO SAY WOULDN'T !

He also crossed out a line about bringing electing election hackers to justice:

https://twitter.com/tom__brenner/status/1019313023893327874/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1019313023893327874&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fwp%2F2018%2F07%2F17%2Fin-his-prepared-remarks-trump-removed-a-line-about-bringing-election-hackers-to-justice%2F

Also, he spelled collusion "COLUSION".


He does his thing at the press conference about how Putin promised him there was no election interference, and he believes Vlad.  Then he does his interview on the Sean Hannity Patriot Hour and doubles down on that.  He's happy, he's confident, he's all smiles, he's convinced he's hit it out of the park.  Then he gets on Failforce One and start watching TV and begins to realize he's made an enormous error.   Sends Sarah Suckerbee Sanders to deliver a Tweet on a piece of paper, since the reporters in Failforce One don't have access to WiFi.  (I wonder if Sarah was dressed as WiFi when she delivered the paper to the reporters... perhaps wearing a sweater with a WiFi logo on it? That would be cute. I digress.)   Adopts new position that he has "GREAT confidence in MY intelligence people." (Unclear whether he only means ones that he appointed, ones that are loyal to him, or all of them (as President, they are all "his" people in a sense, right?) 

Now he meant to say "wouldn't" instead of "would".  This is the stupidest possible excuse he could have invented. 

He also said "I accept our intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia’s meddling in the 2016 election took place."  Then, off the cuff, adds: "Could be other people also. A lot of people out there. "

If he accepts the intelligence community's conclusion, he accepts Russia meddled in the election.  Full stop. But he doesn't.

In his Tucker Carlson interview, which was recorded yesterday, before Trump was aware how badly the **** hit the fan, Trump doubled down yet again. Talked about the intelligence community as evil people trying to sow discord between Russia and the US, trying to "drive a wedge" between them., talks about how him and Putin were trying to "tear down that wedge" or some mixed-metaphor **** like that. And talked about how strongly Putin denied meddling, just as he did in the Hannity interview.

Carlson noted the discrepancy between his comments in yesterday's interview and Trump's "correction" today: 
Quote
“As the rage-storm swirled, the president bowed to the inevitable, genuflecting before U.S. Intelligence agencies whose judgment must never be questioned and recited the oath of loyalty to the spy bureaucrats in charge of the country,” Carlson said, referring to the correction as a “hostage tape.”
https://thinkprogress.org/trump-tucker-carlson-no-correction-on-russia-536c58a440b3/


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 18, 2018, 06:39:48 am
So Tucker is giving him hell from the OTHER side ?

We are almost at the point where the news-entertainment-outrage complex that is FOX is going to realize that ratings points aren't worth destroying the west, NATO, etc.  Maybe the stockmarket crashing will do that.

Also - I am very much resenting being forced to defend the status quo with regards to nationalism, military pacts and so on.  This is a very un-liberal thing to do but unfortunately it is absolutely necessary: we still have countries at this point in history, and as such we and our allies have to defend them.

The hard left, though, is very much laughing at liberals who are defending the CIA and so on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 18, 2018, 12:39:28 pm
I completely agree about Murdoch, he’s a scumbag but do you think this might be Trump’s, Chamberlain Munich moment?

Nope. I think Kimmy properly explained the thinking and priorities of Trump's core supporters when she said as long as liberals are angry they're happy. And as long as 90% of Republicans approve of him Republican congressmen and senators are going to do nothing to upset them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 18, 2018, 05:38:12 pm
Nope. I think Kimmy properly explained the thinking and priorities of Trump's core supporters when she said as long as liberals are angry they're happy. And as long as 90% of Republicans approve of him Republican congressmen and senators are going to do nothing to upset them.

I guess so but I’m thinking of his place in history. Pretty soon, just making someone mad won’t be enough,particularly if it comes with a price.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 18, 2018, 06:05:05 pm
I do think think that this has brought us to the point where democracy needs an update.

Although I 100% disagree with Argus' approach, I think he has nailed the problem.  We don't need a technocracy or tests of voters IMO, but instead should simply discourage morons from participating.  The problem is that there is a deep well of people with no idea, more than before, and politicians are now courting them.

Oddly, the SAME THING happened in the 20th century and the Democrats rallied those same people to FIVE TERMS in a row.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on July 18, 2018, 07:13:11 pm
We don't need a technocracy or tests of voters IMO, but instead should simply discourage morons from participating.
Except one person's "moron" is another person's "well informed voter". You can't design a system based on extreme examples. You also have to remember that a vote is a complicated trade off since no one party or politician can possible represent a person's views 100%. To vote means to support politicians that promise to do some things with are objectionable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 18, 2018, 08:42:34 pm
Except one person's "moron" is another person's "well informed voter". You can't design a system based on extreme examples. You also have to remember that a vote is a complicated trade off since no one party or politician can possible represent a person's views 100%. To vote means to support politicians that promise to do some things with are objectionable.

Yeah, if you make the system boring then only people who have patience and the capacity for thought will give it attention.

There is no separating left from right in this, it's those who are willing to put up with boredom, who see voting as a duty for informed people that we need to select.  Taking the 'zip' out of politics, removing the entertainment, would be helpful too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on July 18, 2018, 08:50:45 pm
Yeah, if you make the system boring then only people who have patience and the capacity for thought will give it attention.
Lower turnout gives disproportionate power to highly motivated people with minority view points (often extreme).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 18, 2018, 08:55:53 pm
I guess so but I’m thinking of his place in history. Pretty soon, just making someone mad won’t be enough,particularly if it comes with a price.

What price has he had to pay for anything he's said or done? Ever?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 18, 2018, 08:58:40 pm
Yeah, if you make the system boring then only people who have patience and the capacity for thought will give it attention.

There is no separating left from right in this, it's those who are willing to put up with boredom, who see voting as a duty for informed people that we need to select.  Taking the 'zip' out of politics, removing the entertainment, would be helpful too.

The only way I see this is to forbid anything about elections from being on television or in video form anywhere else. All information would have to be carried in writing. Speeches could be reprinted on candidates web sites. People could, if they chose, attend speeches, or read about them in the newspaper. But there would be no television or video coverage or mention of elections or candidates.

I think this would actually work. But it's not doable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 18, 2018, 09:00:21 pm
What price has he had to pay for anything he's said or done? Ever?

I meant the price his supporters will eventually have to pay. History will judge what he has said and done, maybe the courts as well.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 18, 2018, 09:23:52 pm
Lower turnout gives disproportionate power to highly motivated people with minority view points (often extreme).

I don't know how you could prove such a thing.  It sounds counterintuitive to me.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 18, 2018, 09:24:47 pm
The only way I see this is to forbid anything about elections from being on television or in video form anywhere else.
All information would have to be carried in writing. Speeches could be reprinted on candidates web sites. People could, if they chose, attend speeches, or read about them in the newspaper. But there would be no television or video coverage or mention of elections or candidates.

I think this would actually work. But it's not doable.

That's a great idea, and exactly the kind of thing I was thinking about.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on July 18, 2018, 10:24:46 pm
I don't know how you could prove such a thing.  It sounds counter-intuitive to me.
Why? People who are passionate about a small set of issues are more motivated to vote. If participation is low their issues will matter more to politicians.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 19, 2018, 02:57:25 am
So Tucker is giving him hell from the OTHER side ?

I think Tucker was basically telling Trump supporters that Trump was just pretending to agree with the intelligence community to appease the critics; he still believes the Mueller investigation is a witch-hunt.

He was back out there today saying that Russia is no longer attacking the US, and an hour later Sarah Huckabee Sanders was back in front of reporters again trying to walk it back. "He wasn't saying no in answer to the question, he was saying no, he won't answer the question," she said.

Think back to the campaign, the one day when he scheduled a press conference to address the Obama birther conspiracy stuff once and for all.  He spent 20 minutes talking about his great new hotel that he was opening, and then added "I believe Obama was born in America, end of story."    And not even a day later he was back playing footsie with the Obama birther types, more or less telling them that he just lied to the mainstream press so that they would talk about something else and he still believes the Obama birther conspiracy stuff.

I believe Tucker Carlson was just reassuring the Fox true-believer audience that don't worry, Trump hasn't changed, he just said that to get the Deep State and the Fake News Media off his back.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 19, 2018, 03:24:34 am
So this Maria Butina thing is pretty wild.  Basically right out of "Red Sparrow" or "The Americans".   

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/alleged-spy-butina-tied-to-christian-right-gun-groups.html

She used sex to get conservative "political operative" Paul Erickson in her pocket, and used Erickson's contacts to try to gain access to the NRA and "religious-right" political figures.  There's something oddly hilarious about a professional seductress using sex to infiltrate the "National Prayer Breakfast" crowd.

 -k

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 19, 2018, 05:39:54 am
Espionage is a real thing, and Putin being a spy believes in it and invests in it. 

There was a rumour that Gorbachev was compromised, and now we have Trump.  I won't find out the truth in my lifetime (pee tape) that much I know.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on July 19, 2018, 08:30:19 am
So this Maria Butina thing is pretty wild.  Basically right out of "Red Sparrow" or "The Americans".   

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/alleged-spy-butina-tied-to-christian-right-gun-groups.html

She used sex to get conservative "political operative" Paul Erickson in her pocket, and used Erickson's contacts to try to gain access to the NRA and "religious-right" political figures.  There's something oddly hilarious about a professional seductress using sex to infiltrate the "National Prayer Breakfast" crowd.

 -k

Pretending to be an NRA Nut probably only sealed the deal. Say what you will about Russia, they know what appeals to Americans.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 19, 2018, 10:21:17 am
That was brilliant of Putin to make the totally out-of-the-blue, unfounded accusation that Browder gave $400 million to Clinton. It gives the Trump nuts a Hillary bone to chew on, which is all they need. And it is always a good idea to try and make everybody think the guy who is fighting your corruption is, himself, corrupt.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 19, 2018, 11:56:39 am
Putin is backtracking on that now saying that it was Browder's business associates. Does that mean Russians?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 19, 2018, 04:16:38 pm
So this Maria Butina thing is pretty wild.  Basically right out of "Red Sparrow" or "The Americans".   

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/alleged-spy-butina-tied-to-christian-right-gun-groups.html

She used sex to get conservative "political operative" Paul Erickson in her pocket, and used Erickson's contacts to try to gain access to the NRA and "religious-right" political figures.  There's something oddly hilarious about a professional seductress using sex to infiltrate the "National Prayer Breakfast" crowd.

 -k

Here's what hasn't been getting enough play. The NRA really upped its donations for the last election. By millions. The previous election they spent $12 million on Romney. This time around, they were by far his biggest donor, putting $30 million to get Trump elected, and tens of millions more to help senators in key ridings. And the NRA has admitted it accepts foreign donations. So where did that foreign money come from and how much of it was there?

https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/02/16/did-kremlin-give-money-to-nra/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 20, 2018, 01:26:10 pm
Google "idiot"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 20, 2018, 04:26:53 pm
Espionage is a real thing, and Putin being a spy believes in it and invests in it. 

There was a rumour that Gorbachev was compromised, and now we have Trump.  I won't find out the truth in my lifetime (pee tape) that much I know.

Trump is too arrogant to care about a pee tape being released enough to have someone like Putin blackmail him.  I don't think Trump would ever let anyone have any power over him like that, he bows to nobody.  I think his admin and the Russians are buddies still because of their mutual hatred of Clinton & Obama and Russia's willingness to help Trump win over the Democrats.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 20, 2018, 04:39:18 pm
he bows to nobody

He showed us in Singapore and Helsinki that he does bow to some.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 20, 2018, 04:58:22 pm
Trump is too arrogant to care about a pee tape being released enough to have someone like Putin blackmail him.

Does he care about going to prison? It was Steve Bannon, I think, who said it would be money laundering that brought Trump down.
Trump hasn't been able to get any financing in the US for years, because he pays late or not at all. He's been getting a lot of his financing from Russian oligarchs. Given Trump is a man of literally zero integrity and honesty, I find it fairly likely he's been money laundering for them, and probably helping them evade previous sanctions, too. If so, Putin would have the evidence of that. He might well be able to put both Trump and his son in prison if he were to release it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on July 20, 2018, 05:45:19 pm
Does he care about going to prison? It was Steve Bannon, I think, who said it would be money laundering that brought Trump down.
Trump hasn't been able to get any financing in the US for years, because he pays late or not at all. He's been getting a lot of his financing from Russian oligarchs. Given Trump is a man of literally zero integrity and honesty, I find it fairly likely he's been money laundering for them, and probably helping them evade previous sanctions, too. If so, Putin would have the evidence of that. He might well be able to put both Trump and his son in prison if he were to release it.

He built that big hotel in Vegas and the Gaming Commission has consistently refused to give him a casino license, so it still has no casino - much less of an attraction, and the rooms there usually go for super cheap.

I figured there was a reason why they don't want to deal with him and that reason is likely his business practices.  How bad do you have to be for Sin City to reject you?  :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on July 20, 2018, 06:13:47 pm
I figured there was a reason why they don't want to deal with him and that reason is likely his business practices.  How bad do you have to be for Sin City to reject you?
Nice sound bite. Does not seem true: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/nevada-gaming-denied-trump/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 21, 2018, 08:16:23 am
Does he care about going to prison? It was Steve Bannon, I think, who said it would be money laundering that brought Trump down.
Trump hasn't been able to get any financing in the US for years, because he pays late or not at all. He's been getting a lot of his financing from Russian oligarchs. Given Trump is a man of literally zero integrity and honesty, I find it fairly likely he's been money laundering for them, and probably helping them evade previous sanctions, too. If so, Putin would have the evidence of that. He might well be able to put both Trump and his son in prison if he were to release it.

Putin could have something else on him that would make Trump very nervous yes, but a pee tape I don't think would be enough
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 21, 2018, 11:33:51 am
People are speculating that it's underaged girls.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 21, 2018, 11:37:50 am
People are speculating that it's underaged girls.

Would one of them be named Ivanka?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 21, 2018, 11:57:46 am
Does he care about going to prison? It was Steve Bannon, I think, who said it would be money laundering that brought Trump down.
Trump hasn't been able to get any financing in the US for years, because he pays late or not at all. He's been getting a lot of his financing from Russian oligarchs. Given Trump is a man of literally zero integrity and honesty, I find it fairly likely he's been money laundering for them, and probably helping them evade previous sanctions, too. If so, Putin would have the evidence of that. He might well be able to put both Trump and his son in prison if he were to release it.

I recall reading speculation that Trump properties may be one method of money laundering.  Someone had done some investigation and found that one of Trump's properties had a suspiciously high number of Russian owners, who had purchased properties at far above market prices, on properties that in some cases the owners had never even been to.


edit to add:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-fusion/sales-of-trump-properties-suggestive-of-money-laundering-researcher-idUSKBN1F727X

https://www.globalwitness.org/en/campaigns/corruption-and-money-laundering/narco-a-lago-panama/#chapter-0/section-1

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 21, 2018, 12:29:26 pm
Maria Butina, the story so far:

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/19/17581354/maria-butina-russia-nra-trump

Describing her 2015 conversations with Paul Erickson to influence American politics:

Quote
So what we appear to have here is a plan to influence the Republican Party to be friendlier to Russia, based on the perceptive (and accurate) insight that the Republican Party is extremely beholden to the NRA. Keep in mind, too, that this was months before Donald Trump entered the race, and when most believed the GOP would choose a more traditional (and hawkish) nominee.

The long game: she was working to connect with Republican politicians as early as 2013.

Quote
Even before Butina wrote this plan, she had made some inroads in conservative activist circles. For instance, in 2013, she got Trump’s future National Security Adviser John Bolton to record a video message on gun rights for her group. In 2014, the conservative website TownHall ran an interview with her under the headline “Meet the woman working with the NRA and fighting for gun rights in Russia.”

But when Republican presidential candidates started to travel the country to campaign in 2015, Butina, too, increasingly started to pop up at events — posing for photographs with candidates like Scott Walker, Rick Santorum, and Bobby Jindal.

Butina jumps on the Trumpwagon:

Quote
Soon after Trump entered the race and skyrocketed to the top of polls, Butina attended an event with him too — at the FreedomFest conference in Las Vegas in July 2015. Trump, in fact, called on her to ask a question.

Saying she was from Russia, Butina asked, “If you would be elected as the president, what would be your foreign politics, especially in the relationships with my country? And do you want to continue the policy of sanctions that are damaging to both economies, or do you have other ideas?”

Trump answered by talking about how “the whole world hates us” under Obama, and then said, “I know Putin, and I’ll tell you what, we get along with Putin.” He continued: “I don’t think you’d need the sanctions. I think that we would get along very, very well. I really believe that.”

In their book Russian Roulette, Michael Isikoff and David Corn reported that Trump’s own advisers would later look back on the exchange and find it strange.

   
Quote
Steve Bannon raised it with RNC chair Reince Priebus. How was it that this Russian woman happened to be in Las Vegas for that event? And how was it that Trump happened to call on her? And Trump’s response? It was odd, Bannon thought, that Trump had a fully developed answer.

    Priebus agreed there was something strange about Butina. Whenever there were events held by conservative groups, she was always around, he told Bannon.

Bannon's observation seems to be that it's odd that Trump, who never has anything thought through, had already thought through an answer to this question, which seems far outside Trump's usual wheelhouse.   This invites the conclusion that this exchange had been planned.


Paul Erickson was clearly aware that he was dealing with a Russian agent with access to the Kremlin itself:
Quote
It was around March 2016, though, that references about a communication channel between the Russian government and the GOP began to pop up. (The first round of primaries had already happened and Trump was the clear favorite to win the nomination at this point.)

That month, Butina emailed an American person that “Putin’s side” had given them a “yes.” She wrote that a “representative of the Russian Presidential administration” had given approval for “building this communication channel,” according to the FBI agent’s affidavit.

Then in May 2016, Erickson sent an email to Trump campaign (and Jeff Sessions) staffer Rick Dearborn, with the subject: “Kremlin connection”. He wrote: “Happenstance and the (sometimes) international reach of the NRA placed me in a position a couple of years ago to slowly begin cultivating a back-channel to President Putin’s Kremlin.”

And later, a meeting with Donald Trump Jr (a couple of weeks before Don Jr was offered Russian intel on Hillary.)  After the election, Butina served as the connection between Paul Erickson and Alexander Torshin, a Putin ally.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 22, 2018, 12:21:26 pm
Maria Butina wrote this piece that was published 4 days before Trump announced his candidacy.

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-bear-the-elephant-13098

Given all that has transpired since, the content of the article and its timing are foreboding. "The National Interest" is the publication of "the Center for the National Interest", a think tank once upon a time founded by Richard Nixon but currently run by a guy named Dmitri Simes, a Russian.

In addition to publishing Butina's article, the CNI also arranged for Butina and Alexander Torshin to meet with individuals from the US Treasury and Federal Reserve:
Quote
Butina traveled to the United States in April 2015 with Alexander Torshin, then the Russian Central Bank deputy governor, and they took part in separate meetings with Fischer and Sheets to discuss U.S.-Russian economic relations during Democratic former President Barack Obama’s administration.

The two meetings, which have not been previously reported, reveal a wider circle of high-powered connections that Butina sought to cultivate with American political leaders and special interest groups.

Butina’s lawyer, Robert Driscoll, did not have any details about her participation in meetings with Treasury and Federal Reserve officials when asked about them on Friday.

The meetings with Fischer and Sheets were arranged by the Center for the National Interest, a Washington foreign policy think tank that often advocates pro-Russia views.

The meetings were documented in a Center for the National Interest report seen by Reuters that outlined its Russia-related activities from 2013 to 2015. The report described the meetings as helping bring together “leading figures from the financial institutions of the United States and Russia.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-butina-exclusive/exclusive-accused-russian-agent-butina-met-with-u-s-treasury-fed-officials-idUSKBN1KC0DC?__twitter_impression=true


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 22, 2018, 01:08:05 pm
Saying she was from Russia, Butina asked, “If you would be elected as the president, what would be your foreign politics, especially in the relationships with my country? And do you want to continue the policy of sanctions that are damaging to both economies, or do you have other ideas?”

Trump answered by talking about how “the whole world hates us” under Obama, and then said, “I know Putin, and I’ll tell you what, we get along with Putin.” He continued: “I don’t think you’d need the sanctions. I think that we would get along very, very well. I really believe that.”

I don't think that sounds like a pre-planned fully developed answer.  There's no nuance there.  Sounds typical Trump.  Doesn't mean she couldn't have been a plant.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 22, 2018, 06:08:51 pm
A pre planned fully developed answer. From Trump? When did that happen?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 23, 2018, 07:11:47 am
So now the idiot wants to start a war with Iran!. I know he had a tough week after making a complete **** of himself in Helsinki but this is a bit of a dangerous way to try and deflect. Will somebody pull this morons tiny fingers from his phone and close his stupid tweeter account before he does some real damage. I'm heading over to the "other" site to see how the Canada Troll comes to Trump's aid on this issue. B C'n ya later.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 23, 2018, 08:40:41 am
So now the idiot wants to start a war with Iran!. I know he had a tough week after making a complete **** of himself in Helsinki but this is a bit of a dangerous way to try and deflect. Will somebody pull this morons tiny fingers from his phone and close his stupid tweeter account before he does some real damage. I'm heading over to the "other" site to see how the Canada Troll comes to Trump's aid on this issue. B C'n ya later.

Trump was responding to a threat of war from the Iranian President.  A little bit much I think, but Trump basically told him to eff himself and show who's boss.  Seems to have worked with North Korea.  People killed from tweets: zero.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 23, 2018, 08:51:28 am
Trump was responding to a threat of war from the Iranian President.  A little bit much I think, but Trump basically told him to eff himself and show who's boss.  Seems to have worked with North Korea.  People killed from tweets: zero.

Trump wqs "responding" to the **** he caused by pulling out of the Iran deal for no valid reason and then imposing sanctions, again for no valid reason. You can try and give him a pass if you want. Good luck with that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 23, 2018, 11:44:29 am
If Trump decides to attack Iran, he will be on his own. There will be no Coalition of the Willing this time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 23, 2018, 12:34:14 pm
Trump was responding to a threat of war from the Iranian President.  A little bit much I think, but Trump basically told him to eff himself and show who's boss.  Seems to have worked with North Korea.  People killed from tweets: zero.

National Post headline on this story was "Trump unleashes his caps lock on Iran". Does Trump know how much unintentional hilarity he causes?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 23, 2018, 01:51:23 pm
If Trump decides to attack Iran, he will be on his own. There will be no Coalition of the Willing this time.

I don't think Trump's intention has ever been to attack Iran, but rather sign a "better" denuclearization deal, in his mind.  Trump thinks he can negotiate better deals in the US interest than any politician, hence ripping up NAFTA and telling China to stick it.

I think this rhetoric is all a part of negotiation.  It's a poker game, and in rhetoric Trump will never blink first, because he knows he (the US) has the better hand.  It would take quite the pair of balls for a leader to call Trump's bluff.  He did the same with North Korea and never launched any physical attacks and somehow managed to get the regime to the table, farther than any previous POTUS had gotten.  I think leaders are rightfully frightened of Trump, something we can't say about Obama.

I think a POTUS needs to be both respected as a peacemaker/ally and feared.  Respect through only one or the other is no good.  Carter was a peacemaker too, but too soft, as was Obama arguably.  Trump arguably isn't a reliable ally/peacemaker so too far the other way.  Diplomacy is carrots and sticks, foreign leaders need to know both options are on the table to get the best outcomes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 23, 2018, 02:14:20 pm
I don't think Trump's intention has ever been to attack Iran, but rather sign a "better" denuclearization deal, in his mind.  Trump thinks he can negotiate better deals in the US interest than any politician, hence ripping up NAFTA and telling China to stick it.

I think this rhetoric is all a part of negotiation.  It's a poker game, and in rhetoric Trump will never blink first, because he knows he (the US) has the better hand.  It would take quite the pair of balls for a leader to call Trump's bluff.  He did the same with North Korea and never launched any physical attacks and somehow managed to get the regime to the table, farther than any previous POTUS had gotten.  I think leaders are rightfully frightened of Trump, something we can't say about Obama.

I think a POTUS needs to be both respected as a peacemaker/ally and feared.  Respect through only one or the other is no good.  Carter was a peacemaker too, but too soft, as was Obama arguably.  Trump arguably isn't a reliable ally/peacemaker so too far the other way.  Diplomacy is carrots and sticks, foreign leaders need to know both options are on the table to get the best outcomes.

All this potus did by getting Kim to "the table" is to make a fool of himself, and later of Pompeo when he showed up for an ongoing meeting and Kim chose to inspect a potato farm instead. Wow, he must really be fearful to do that! Trump continues to demean and respect for the office he somehow holds and in all likelihood will continue to do so until the US continues to be isolated. If he wqs trying to be strong in negotiating, he should at least keep his stories straight from one day to the other. He simply lets his small hands ego get in his own way constantly.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 23, 2018, 03:41:39 pm
Actually I think Kim got Trump to the table and in doing so managed to get international credibility no NK leader has ever had. Since then he has basically been stonewalling on getting rid of his nukes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on July 23, 2018, 03:57:04 pm
Actually I think Kim got Trump to the table and in doing so managed to get international credibility no NK leader has ever had. Since then he has basically been stonewalling on getting rid of his nukes.
Don't forget that the "master negotiator" has succeeded in ensuring that China will do nothing to help with NK now and Kim knows it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 23, 2018, 04:01:53 pm
He did the same with North Korea and never launched any physical attacks and somehow managed to get the regime to the table, farther than any previous POTUS had gotten.  I think leaders are rightfully frightened of Trump, something we can't say about Obama.

Wow, even die hardened Trumpists no longer push that failure.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 23, 2018, 04:36:36 pm
Don't forget that the "master negotiator" has succeeded in ensuring that China will do nothing to help with NK now and Kim knows it.

He declares economic war on the one ally he really needs to pressure Kim. The guy’s brilliant I tell ya.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 23, 2018, 06:10:21 pm
Wow, even die hardened Trumpists no longer push that failure.

In fact, North Korea has been demanding direct negotiations with the US for decades. The US has always refused without NK being willing to offer something substantial up.

Mr. Master Negotiator just gave in without the NKs giving up anything, and and then made consessions immediately afterward while getting nothing in return.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 24, 2018, 04:01:19 am
At this point it seems like piling on, but...

Trump was responding to a threat of war from the Iranian President.  A little bit much I think, but Trump basically told him to eff himself and show who's boss.  Seems to have worked with North Korea.  People killed from tweets: zero.

 ...what Trump accomplished North Korea is pretty much the exact opposite of "working".

Even President Dump himself is starting to realize he got played:
Quote
Unfortunately, those pesky politicians in Pyongyang, who no one but Trump trusted, may be ruining the president’s high. Per the Washington Post, Trump seems to be learning, the hard way, that epic peace deals with foreign leaders work a lot better when those deals actually exist before celebrating or trying to implement them. North Korea has been blowing the U.S. off since the summit, leaving denuclearization negotiations at a standstill, and the impatient Trump has been fuming at aides about it.

U.S. negotiators’ attempts to hammer out an actual agreement have met significant resistance from North Korean officials, just as every North Korea expert in the world predicted they would. Despite rumors that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo might give Kim Jong-un a CD of Elton John’s “Rocket Man,” the North Koreans haven’t destroyed the missile testing facility Trump said they would, and have “canceled follow-up meetings, demanded more money, and failed to maintain basic communications, even as the once-isolated regime’s engagements with China and South Korea flourish,” according to U.S. diplomats who spoke with the Post.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/trump-realizing-its-north-koreas-reality-show-not-his.html


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 24, 2018, 06:12:57 am
Just thinking this morning about my TDS self-diagnosis. 

Yes, he's a scourge but CNN covers almost nothing else all day.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 24, 2018, 07:34:31 am
It's rather unprecedented to have a compromised Russian agent in the Oval Office though. How can CNN not talk about it all the time? But as for your TDS, I've always found the "derangement syndrome" expression to be used exclusively by people who know little about the subject, have no counter-argument to the points that have been made, and have to resort to name-calling because they aren't smart enough to reply in any other way. So I'm kind of surprised that was your self-diagnosis.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 24, 2018, 09:46:30 am
Just thinking this morning about my TDS self-diagnosis. 

Yes, he's a scourge but CNN covers almost nothing else all day.

Last week I checked in at the other place to see how the Trumptards were coping with seeing their big orange icon exposed for the simpering cuck he is.

I noticed Grumpy Old Lady #1 complain "why is everybody talking about Trump so much?  There are important issues being ignored, like how much Trudeau sucks." (or words to that effect.)  Grumpy Old Lady #2 chimed in to agree. SirJohn said something like "well, I do agree, but when the President of the United States abases himself to a dictator with the whole world watching, you can't not talk about it."


It's like the old saying "it's not paranoia if they really are out to get you."  At this point, "derangement" is the only rational response to the Trump Presidency.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on July 24, 2018, 10:13:03 am
This morning he wants to revoke security clearances of past officials who have criticized him.  This would mean any expertise these individuals have would be unavailable to current individuals in those roles.  CNN says its unprecedented and an abuse of power.   
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/23/politics/security-clearance-what-trump-can-do/index.html

Fox News doesn't seem to disagee.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/07/23/trump-considering-revoking-6-ex-obama-officials-clearance.html

One wonders how long till he thinks about jailing those who criticize him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 24, 2018, 11:29:12 am
So now that Trump's "great" tariffs have kicked in, he's now planning to spend 12 Billion to bail out affected farmers. Who's next? I thought this **** was supposed to be a businessman

https://nypost.com/2018/07/24/trump-administration-plans-12-billion-bailout-for-us-farmers-hurt-by-tariffs/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 24, 2018, 12:27:25 pm
So now that Trump's "great" tariffs have kicked in, he's now planning to spend 12 Billion to bail out affected farmers. Who's next? I thought this **** was supposed to be a businessman

https://nypost.com/2018/07/24/trump-administration-plans-12-billion-bailout-for-us-farmers-hurt-by-tariffs/

Hmmm...

https://www.ksat.com/money/whirlpool-loved-trumps-tariffs-now-its-struggling
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on July 24, 2018, 12:31:49 pm
Trump was responding to a threat of war from the Iranian President.  A little bit much I think, but Trump basically told him to eff himself and show who's boss.  Seems to have worked with North Korea.  People killed from tweets: zero.
Did you actually read what the president of Iran said? He wasn’t threatening war. He had he “audacity” to say Iran would protect itself from Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 24, 2018, 01:28:40 pm
So now that Trump's "great" tariffs have kicked in, he's now planning to spend 12 Billion to bail out affected farmers.

Do farmers on welfare have to undergo mandatory drug testing?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 24, 2018, 01:30:32 pm
Hmmm...

https://www.ksat.com/money/whirlpool-loved-trumps-tariffs-now-its-struggling

Older news but Indian too?

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2018/06/26/polaris-motorcycles-may-follow-harley-davidson-out.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 25, 2018, 02:08:00 am
Trump sees via the current polls that the mid terms are turning to **** for him so he is dolling out $12 billion to try and buy back a few farm votes his stupid trade war has **** over. Hopefully those farmers will be smart wnough to see where the goose **** in the buckwheat.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 25, 2018, 07:04:38 am
Here's the tape:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/24/politics/michael-cohen-donald-trump-tape/index.html

Which will have zero impact, politically, IMO.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 25, 2018, 10:32:30 am
Never mind mid-terms. Trump has already announced his bid for re-election in 2020, come up with a campaign slogan, and started buying signs, posters and flags.

So where is Mr "BUY AMERICA!" getting these things made?

Guess.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-china-flags/made-in-china-trump-re-election-flags-may-get-burned-by-his-tariffs-idUSKBN1KF1D6
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 25, 2018, 03:21:47 pm
Which will have zero impact, politically, IMO.

True, because the Trumpkins don't care and everyone else is already against him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 25, 2018, 09:22:51 pm
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mexico-canada-nafta-trade-deal-1.4762009

Quote
Canadian and Mexican officials insisted on Wednesday that the North American Free Trade Agreement remain a trilateral pact  and reiterated their opposition to U.S. calls for a so-called "sunset clause" that could end the deal after five years.

After a meeting in Mexico City, Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland and Mexican Economy Minister Ildefonso Guajardo said they remained optimistic about negotiations to revamp the 24-year-old trade pact.

What's this ?  Defiance ?  Are they smelling blood in the water now ? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 26, 2018, 12:22:49 am
President Dump's peons in congress have moved to have Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein impeached. This move has zero chance of success.  Even if it passed the House of Congress, it would require a 2/3 vote in the Senate to succeed, and there was no chance of that happening.

Meadows and Jordan could have taken steps to make sure their motion saw a vote before the 5-week congress recess, but apparently they didn't even bother to do that.  So this won't even see a vote before September, and even if it passes a vote in congress there is no chance it receives the required votes in the senate. 

So this seems like just a shot across the bow.  Another desperate attempt to undermine Mueller before the Manafort trial begins.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 26, 2018, 12:29:19 am
I suggest more likely an attempt to replace Rosenstein with someone who has the power to, and will follow Trump's wishes to fire Mueller.But yes it will never get through the senate. Trump is running scared.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on July 26, 2018, 12:38:25 am
I had a fun time explaining to trumpettes on right wing blog that the Trump gave the EU everything they wanted (immediate end to steel tariffs and indefinite negotiations on an FTA) in return for a promise to do what they planned to do anyways (build LNG terminals and buy soybeans).

They are still convinced Trump is a masterful negotiator who got huuuuge concessions from the EU.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 26, 2018, 05:07:35 am
I suggest more likely an attempt to replace Rosenstein with someone who has the power to, and will follow Trump's wishes to fire Mueller.But yes it will never get through the senate. Trump is running scared.

Obviously they'd like to get rid of Rosenstein so that they can fire Mueller.  But this ploy is futile, so I am unsure what the point of it is.  Just posturing, as far as I can tell. 

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 26, 2018, 05:42:30 am
Stormy Daniels was arrested, then released without being charged, when she performed in Columbus Ohio earlier this month.

Now a whistleblower has released emails showing that Detective Shana Keckley planned the arrest, before Daniels even arrived in town, and bragged about it afterward.

http://thefayetteadvocate.com/2018/07/25/whistleblower-provides-emails-that-show-stormy-daniels-arrest-was-pre-planned/

Quote
Keckley sends a series of messages from her personal email account to her work account. Inside are pictures of Daniels with President Trump, pictures of Daniels in lingerie, and a map to the club where she would be performing.

After Daniels’ arrest that Wednesday night, the emails continue into the early morning hours of Thursday, but the contents are disturbing.

“I got the elements….we arrested Stormy this morning, she is in jail.” “Elements” are the burden police officers must meet in order to make an arrest.

In another email dated on July 12 at 3:50 a.m., Keckley writes to another police officer bragging about Daniel’s arrest — without mentioning her by name — saying, “You’re Welcome!!!!!….Thank me in person later.”

This has the appearance of being malicious misuse of police authority for politically motivated purposes.  Benito Mussolini had his Blackshirts...  perhaps Mango Mussolini will have a Redhat brigade before too long.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 26, 2018, 06:58:44 am
Now a whistleblower has released emails showing that Detective Shana Keckley planned the arrest, before Daniels even arrived in town, and bragged about it afterward.

http://thefayetteadvocate.com/2018/07/25/whistleblower-provides-emails-that-show-stormy-daniels-arrest-was-pre-planned/

This has the appearance of being malicious misuse of police authority for politically motivated purposes.  Benito Mussolini had his Blackshirts...  perhaps Mango Mussolini will have a Redhat brigade before too long.


 -k

Great, but we're going after the wrong official here...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 28, 2018, 12:14:25 pm
Great, but we're going after the wrong official here...

At this point the only official I think should be gone after is the detective from the Columbus PD who misused her authority for political purposes. She ought to be picking up garbage in an orange jumpsuit for the next decade.

In a bigger sense, though, it's troubling.  The big orange idiot publicly mused about how great it would be if some hackers turned up dirt on his opponents, and such dirt magically appears in his inbox, and when he publicly mused about how great it would be if somebody would beat up protestors, and such protestors get beat up.  It doesn't seem like a stretch to suggest that his supporters know he'd welcome them acting like this.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 28, 2018, 12:36:13 pm
Meadows and Jordan could have taken steps to make sure their motion saw a vote before the 5-week congress recess, but apparently they didn't even bother to do that.  So this won't even see a vote before September, and even if it passes a vote in congress there is no chance it receives the required votes in the senate. 

"I was cleaning it and it went off."

Meadows and Jordan back off from Rosenstein impeachment, saying they now prefer the idea of using contempt of congress complaints to push Rosenstein for the accountability they say is lacking rather than the "nuclear" impeachment option. Presumably they got "told".

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 28, 2018, 12:45:46 pm
The most interesting development lately is Michael Cohen and his lawyer claiming that Donald Dump knew beforehand about the infamous "Trump Tower" meeting between Donald Dump Jr, Paul Manafort, and the Russians. (Manafort was campaign manager at the time.)

Two days before the meeting, Trump promised a "very interesting speech" full of dirt on the Clintons.  The Russians didn't deliver the goods and Trump's "very interesting" speech full of Clinton dirt never happened.

Cohen is not the first to make the claim that Trump knew.  Former Trump campaign aide Sam Nunberg said Trump Sr was talking about it a week beforehand.  Steve Bannon, who wasn't on the campaign at the time, said that there's "zero chance" that Jr didn't take the Russians to meet pops.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 28, 2018, 01:07:13 pm
I defies logic that he didn't know but hopefully they can prove it.

On edit. That he did know I mean.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 28, 2018, 01:38:19 pm
  there's "zero chance" that Jr didn't take the Russians to meet pops.
 

...of course.  At this point, it will take forever to get out though...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 29, 2018, 12:54:58 pm
It looks like others besides CEO's are benefiting as a result of the Trump era.

 http://fortune.com/2018/07/05/aclu-membership-growth/

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has seen a spike in membership in the Trump era. ACLU membership grew from 400,000 to 1.84 million in the 15 months following President Donald Trump’s election, according to the New York Times. The group’s online donations used to run between $3 to $5 million annually, but in the year after Trump took office, it raised $120 million online.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 30, 2018, 08:59:56 am
Stable genius President Trump on trade:

Quote
"Our trade deficit ballooned to $817 billion," Donald Trump said during a speech to steelworkers in Granite City, Illinois, yesterday. "Think of that. We lost $817 billion a year over the last number of years in trade. In other words, if we didn't trade, we'd save a hell of a lot of money."

Rep Justin Amash brilliant reply:
Quote
"I'm way down on trade with restaurants, grocery stores, malls, and movie theaters," Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) replied. "I keep buying from them, but they never buy from me. I must be getting ripped off, right?"

http://reason.com/blog/2018/07/27/if-we-didnt-trade-trump-argues-wed-save

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 30, 2018, 09:30:43 am
Sweat-shop Ivanka shuts down failing, low-selling IVANKA fashion line! They can't give it away! SAD!



Ivanka says she's doing it to concentrate on politics.  The truth is, her brand was focused on young professional women, and young professional women hate everything Trump with an enormous passion. While Ivanka had initially promoted herself as a moderate, compassionate advocate's voice at the White House, everybody now knows that's a load of ****.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Why-Ivanka-Trump-really-shut-down-her-line-of-13110960.php


I believe she is making a strategic error.  Rather than close her brand, she should shift focus to selling her crap to the fat, dumb, 45+ women who think her dad is a hero.  She'd make a killing.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 30, 2018, 06:40:50 pm
Any of you seen this? A friend sent it today.

https://youtu.be/k-LTRwZb35A
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 30, 2018, 06:57:15 pm
The no longer a nuclear threat is building new missiles.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 30, 2018, 08:58:34 pm
The no longer a nuclear threat is building new missiles.

Of course.  The deal with Iran was "the worst deal in history", whereas his handshake agreement with Li'l Kim was a great moment in the history of world peace, because Li'l Kim is a very trustworthy individual who will no doubt be so smitten with Das OranjeFuhrer that he will be tripping over himself to denuclearize.

The arrogance and sheer buffoonery of the man would be utterly hilarious if the stakes weren't so high.  He is so god damned **** dumb.

He reportedly talked with Li'l Kim about what great ocean-front condos and hotels they could build on the shores of the Yellow Sea once they had de-escalated nuclear tensions.  Like the whole world is so enchanted with the notion of having its own "Trump Taj Mahal" or "Trump Tower" that they'd be cease hostilities immediately and start serving Trump Vodka and Trump Steaks. What a **** retard.

I am skeptical as to whether any satirical fictional depiction of a politician is as stupid and pathetic as the real life Donald Trump.  If you asked me whether Donald Trump or Mayor Joe Quimby would be a better POTUS, I would have to go with Joe Quimby, and I'm not even kidding.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on July 31, 2018, 08:02:13 am
I'm not sure what's worse, a thread where everyone is anti-Trump so there's no real debate or on the other site where any critique about Trump is met with whataboutisms about JT, Hilary and Obama.

I do think Rudy moving the goalposts about how Collusion is even a crime, is telling on where the GOP reaction to the Russia probe is going. It'll be interesting to see how the Trump lackeys who had to insist there was NO COLLUSION!!! have to now pivot on that COLLUSION ISN'T EVEN A CRIME!!!!

Great popcorn moments.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 31, 2018, 09:03:10 am
I think the problem is there is no coherent pro-Trump argument. It's fun demonstrating to Trump supporters how they are total idiots, but they're always too stupid to understand. Then they think they've really got you when their counter-argument is you have Trump Derangement Syndrome. That's all they've got and they're too dumb to realize that isn't anything. It gets tiresome after a while.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on July 31, 2018, 09:05:49 am
I think the problem is there is no coherent pro-Trump argument. It's fun demonstrating to Trump supporters how they are total idiots, but they're always too stupid to understand. Then they think they've really got you when their counter-argument is you have Trump Derangement Syndrome. That's all they've got and they're too dumb to realize that isn't anything. It gets tiresome after a while.

Which means they win, when you give up.

That's where Internet debate is going. Whoever gets the last post in wins.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on July 31, 2018, 09:38:57 am
I think the problem is there is no coherent pro-Trump argument.
The reasonably coherent pro-trump argument is:

1) The economy is is growing rapidly; his policies (tax cuts, deregulation, tariffs are working!);
2) He says truths which need to be said (NATO allies do not have a functional fighting force, Germany should not be depending on Russia for gas);
3) The FBI investigation is biased because some FBI agents were caught expressing anti-Trump attitudes in emails.

Of course these arguments only make sense if you ignore how he acts around Putin, if complete ignorance of trade how trade works, his childish temper tantrums, the massive deficit, et. al.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on July 31, 2018, 09:44:36 am

3) The FBI investigation is biased because some FBI agents were caught expressing anti-Trump attitudes in emails.


So even though that FBI Agent isn't on the case anymore, all revelations found since aren't credible?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 31, 2018, 09:56:01 am
The reasonably coherent pro-trump argument is:

1) The economy is is growing rapidly; his policies (tax cuts, deregulation, tariffs are working!);
2) He says truths which need to be said (NATO allies do not have a functional fighting force, Germany should not be depending on Russia for gas);
3) The FBI investigation is biased because some FBI agents were caught expressing anti-Trump attitudes in emails.

Of course these arguments only make sense if you ignore how he acts around Putin, if complete ignorance of trade how trade works, his childish temper tantrums, the massive deficit, et. al.

Economically, this stuff was happening under Obama as well.  The complaints at the time were:

"the unemployment rate is fake, because it ignores people who have quit looking for work! Look at the labor market participation rate! It's as low is it has ever been!"  Nowadays we don't hear about the labor market participation rate anymore, we only hear about the low unemployment numbers.

"record stock market indexes don't matter! that only benefits Wall Street. For American workers, wages are completely stagnant."    Wages are still stagnant, but everybody is talking about stock market indexes instead.

When Obama ran deficits, it was "reckless spending! selling out our children!"   Now that the all-Republican federal government is running stratospheric deficits and boosting the debt to an unheard of level, nobody even mentions it. 

Trump supporters and Republican supporters have dramatically changed the talking points compared to where they were from 2008-2016.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on July 31, 2018, 10:13:48 am
I was not saying the arguments are bullet proof - just that they are based on reality rather than conspiracy delusions...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on July 31, 2018, 10:21:12 am
I was not saying the arguments are bullet proof - just that they are based on reality rather than conspiracy delusions...

They're based on hypocritically moving the goal posts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 31, 2018, 11:21:19 am
The reasonably coherent pro-trump argument is:

1) The economy is is growing rapidly; his policies (tax cuts, deregulation, tariffs are working!);
2) He says truths which need to be said (NATO allies do not have a functional fighting force, Germany should not be depending on Russia for gas);
3) The FBI investigation is biased because some FBI agents were caught expressing anti-Trump attitudes in emails.

Of course these arguments only make sense if you ignore how he acts around Putin, if complete ignorance of trade how trade works, his childish temper tantrums, the massive deficit, et. al.

1. One quarter of positive growth does not an economy make. Many economists I hear weighing in expect this is merely a blip. We shall see. And of course have you seen what Donny is doing to the deficit and debt? I'm sure the Koch bros. etal will have **** loads more money they can squirrel away in Tortola.

2. Trump seems, at least on certain days to want to gut NATO. He says it's "as bad as NAFTA" and that he's like to ignore article 5. Of course he only says that when he is in the embraces of the actual fake news, Fox.

3. Strzok, the FBI agent you refer to, was removed from the investigation by Mueller. You know, the Republican who was appointed by a Republican to investigate what actually happened with the 2016 election etc. Let's see what he comes up with before we jump to conclusions.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on July 31, 2018, 11:24:34 am
I think the problem is there is no coherent pro-Trump argument. It's fun demonstrating to Trump supporters how they are total idiots, but they're always too stupid to understand

Don't mistake internet idiots for all Trump supporters. Lots of the latter know he is deeply flawed and disapprove of a lot of stuff he says. His main area of support appears to be coming from the belief he will finally tighten up their border controls, something Americans have wanted for literally decade, and address the economic realities of middle America. Now I kind of agree with the former, and don't think Trump or his administration give a damn about the latter nor are doing anything about it. But the Democrats have not addressed either issue except to oppose real tightening of the border. That's why the Republicans are going to use it against them in the upcoming election. Border security is a highly emotional issue to many Americans. Not to mention Canadians. The politicians have largely ignored it until Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 31, 2018, 11:38:16 pm
So what used to be known as "daily White House Press briefings" has declined continually to where there were three this month. Not that I like listening to Sarah (lie my ass off) Sanders anyway, but it's a bit of a scary indicator. Of course Trump doesn't like questions from what he calls "fake news who are the enemy of the people" whilst he kisses the likes of Sean Hannity's arse on Fox. Controlling the press, let's see where have I heard of that before, oh yeah. Anybody need a historical primer on how that fella Hitler handled the press as he came to power?

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007655

When Adolf Hitler took power in 1933, the Nazis controlled less than three percent of Germany’s 4,700 papers.

The elimination of the German multi-party political system not only brought about the demise of hundreds of newspapers produced by outlawed political parties; it also allowed the state to seize the printing plants and equipment of the Communist and Social Democratic Parties, which were often turned over directly to the Nazi Party. In the following months, the Nazis established control or exerted influence over independent press organs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 01, 2018, 05:58:39 am
It's not a serious threat, ie. there is no coup in the works here.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 01, 2018, 01:13:12 pm
So did Trump step over the line into Obstruction with his tweet this am? Sounds like he woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/trumps-latest-tweet-may-have-made-muellers-obstruction-case-for-him/

Tweets like this one directing the Attorney General to stop the investigation of Trump and his friends are among the many reasons why Mueller will conclude Trump obstructed justice.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 01, 2018, 07:17:28 pm
Somebody is getting nervous I think.  It's going to be his kids/son-in-law that get locked up for life though.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 01, 2018, 07:51:51 pm
Sure seems to be running scared. It will be interesting to see how far the GOP lets him go to cover is ass, or whether they will finally find the courage to act in the country's interest.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 01, 2018, 08:02:16 pm
And if the morons who follow Trump weren't scary enough already, now there's this group of shitheads.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/30/qanon-4chan-rightwing-conspiracy-theory-explained-trump
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on August 01, 2018, 08:06:03 pm
Somebody is getting nervous I think.  It's going to be his kids/son-in-law that get locked up for life though.
He will pardon anyone other than him and no one can stop him as long as the charges are federal. His only real concern is impeachment but he probably believes he controls the 1/3 of the senate needed to block that.
I think his main concern is the humiliation he will face if Muller starts looking at his personal finances.

I don't believe Trump will be impeached even if Muller charges Trump with laundering Russian mob money because the GOP is filled with sniveling cowards with no moral backbone.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 01, 2018, 08:12:12 pm
And if the morons who follow Trump weren't scary enough already, now there's this group of shitheads.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/30/qanon-4chan-rightwing-conspiracy-theory-explained-trump

Yes I read about this stuff last Christmas.  Around the time Bannon got fired everybody flipped out and they needed to explain it all because... well they are children.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 01, 2018, 08:24:42 pm
He will pardon anyone other than him and no one can stop him as long as the charges are federal. His only real concern is impeachment but he probably believes he controls the 1/3 of the senate needed to block that.
I think his main concern is the humiliation he will face if Muller starts looking at his personal finances.

I don't believe Trump will be impeached even if Muller charges Trump with laundering Russian mob money because the GOP is filled with sniveling cowards with no moral backbone.

Mueller long ago subpoenaed Trump's financial records from Deutschabank and there spokesman said they planned to cooperate. I suspect he has records of the millions he was loaned and pissed away after US banks turned their backs on him. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 02, 2018, 01:50:37 am
It's not a serious threat, ie. there is no coup in the works here.

Not sure what you are trying to say here, but I do get the impression that you have a lot more confidence in the situation than I do. I think the coup has already happened.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 02, 2018, 03:29:45 am
Yes I read about this stuff last Christmas.  Around the time Bannon got fired everybody flipped out and they needed to explain it all because... well they are children.

The subhuman trolls of 4chan have discovered that gullible older people will believe any bullshit they get sent on social media.

Remember the gullible old lady at MLW posting the video about Barack Obama's Muslim Brotherhood membership cheque?  "QAnon" is the same thing, on a massive scale.  It's weaponized stupidity.

A while back, cybercoma posted about the "Brandolini Bullshit Principle".  That's in play here as well. 

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 02, 2018, 07:09:24 am
Not sure what you are trying to say here, but I do get the impression that you have a lot more confidence in the situation than I do. I think the coup has already happened.

Suspension of democracy hasn't happened and doesn't appear imminent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 02, 2018, 07:10:46 am
1. Remember the gullible old lady at MLW posting the video about Barack Obama's Muslim Brotherhood membership cheque?  "QAnon" is the same thing, on a massive scale.  It's weaponized stupidity.

2. A while back, cybercoma posted about the "Brandolini Bullshit Principle".  That's in play here as well. 

 -k

1. The sad thing is that she was a complacent centrist who started reading that garbage and got duped.  How many more are out there.
2. ?  Cyber is a conspiracy guy ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 02, 2018, 11:27:17 am
Don't know she was that much of a centrist. She was quite willing to believe that crap on the basis of Obama being black and having Hussein for a middle name.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 02, 2018, 11:54:07 am
Suspension of democracy hasn't happened and doesn't appear imminent.

I am not suggesting Trump is planning to build ovens to start burning people he doesn't like in, hopefully we have evolved beyond to where that is not possible anymore. But Hitler didn't start there either. He started out by chipping away at all forms of media of the day, shutting down newspapers, burning books. Shutting down free speech with gangs of thugs who supported him, and spreading lies about anyone who opposed him. Trump has groups of thugs who support him screaming at reporters so loudly that they can't ask questions of Trump in public, banning a reporter from a Rose Garden event because he didn't like the questions she would ask, referring to the MSM other than his lapdog Fox, "fake news" and "the enemy of the people". And now he has QAnon doing his bidding. Remember Nero?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 02, 2018, 01:59:40 pm
1. The sad thing is that she was a complacent centrist who started reading that garbage and got duped.  How many more are out there.
2. ?  Cyber is a conspiracy guy ?
”The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.”
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 02, 2018, 04:36:08 pm
I think his main concern is the humiliation he will face if Muller starts looking at his personal finances.

I've long suspected Trump isn't even a billionaire. We have no idea how much money he owes, particularly to all the Russians and other third world oligarches who have been funding his company since the banks stopped lending to him.

Quote
I don't believe Trump will be impeached even if Muller charges Trump with laundering Russian mob money because the GOP is filled with sniveling cowards with no moral backbone.

Agreed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 03, 2018, 12:09:43 am
Donald: "the main stream media is the enemy of the people"
Ivanka: "I don't believe the msm is the enemy of the people"
Donald (pissy pants) Jr': The democratic party policy is close Nazism"

How much weirder can this get I wonder?


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 03, 2018, 09:44:16 am
The Paul Manafort is just 3 days old and Trump is allegedly on the brink of a meltdown.  Behind closed doors he is badgering everybody about firing Mueller or firing Rosenstein.


Former White House  ... person (nobody actually knows what she did...) Omarosa Manigault says that she sees undeniable signs of mental decline in Trump.  While most of us probably agree with her, her observation is more pertinent because she has known Trump personally since she was on his reality show and was also behind the scenes at the White House.  Skeptics will say she's just saying outrageous stuff to boost sales of her new book.


...and in his latest Redhats rally, his slurred speech is really evident.  Remember during the election campaign you had all those internet physicians talking about the completely obvious signs of Hillary's mental deterioration?  Maybe those internet doctors can weigh in on a guy who rambles incoherently and slurs his speech.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 03, 2018, 11:22:25 am
Maybe he's heading down  Nixon's path and taken up the booze to ease the pain as he awaits impeachment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 03, 2018, 11:44:45 am
Supposedly Trump is teetotal.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 03, 2018, 11:58:30 am
I know that's what they say, but if you look at some of the "highlights" from his latest speech in Pa. you have to think he might be on something. For instance he refers to election meddling as "the Russian Hoax" a few days after his intel leaders all confirmed that it weren't no hoax.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 03, 2018, 12:10:42 pm
I know that's what they say, but if you look at some of the "highlights" from his latest speech in Pa. you have to think he might be on something. For instance he refers to election meddling as "the Russian Hoax" a few days after his intel leaders all confirmed that it weren't no hoax.

Up to now the impression was that he is just a dishonest snake oil salesman. Lately, his grasp on reality is more and more in question.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 03, 2018, 12:24:12 pm
Up to now the impression was that he is just a dishonest snake oil salesman. Lately, his grasp on reality is more and more in question.

I must correct my previous post were I said "a few days" when I meant a few hours. And yes, dismissing his entire top level security teams findings as to what happened with Russia meddling in the election and call it all a hoax, does make one wonder about his mental stability.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 03, 2018, 12:46:08 pm
And further to basic reality checks, Trump's twit of a son has stated publicly that the Democratic policy is similar to Nazism, while daddy said the Neo-Nazis who marched through Charlottesville were "good people".  What kind of a can of worms has the white house turned into!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 03, 2018, 01:04:45 pm
You people need to be a little more skeptical about your sources....    some unknown reality TV broad trying to hock a book might not be a very reliable source...  this is how "the left" gets accused (rightly) of being just as bad as those other guys...  when you use a person like that as a source of information, prepare to lose the argument.

You start to sound like TMZ... 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 03, 2018, 04:14:56 pm
But she was a senior figure in his administration. The Left loses credibility when it listens to former members of Trump's administration because Trump surrounds himself with reality TV hucksters who can't be trusted? Ok.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 03, 2018, 04:23:59 pm
some unknown reality TV broad

Yes, just why did President Trump hire some unknown reality TV broad to begin with?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 03, 2018, 04:33:50 pm
But she was a senior figure in his administration. The Left loses credibility when it listens to former members of Trump's administration because Trump surrounds himself with reality TV hucksters who can't be trusted? Ok.

I doubt she has any capacity to assess anyone's mental fitness.   And she's trying to sell a shitty "tell-all" book.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 03, 2018, 06:40:46 pm
I can often tell if someone is batshit crazy within 10 seconds of meeting them. I'm sure Omarosa has at least the same capacity that I have.
You can criticize her for waiting until it's profitable before telling her story, but it's not like any thinking person can't listen to him speak and not get the same impression.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 04, 2018, 12:10:35 pm
I doubt she has any capacity to assess anyone's mental fitness.   And she's trying to sell a shitty "tell-all" book.

She was on his TV show in 2004, and again in 2013, and she worked in his administration in 2017.  I think she's actually in a pretty unique position to be able to say that he's not as sharp as he used to be.  Although, I don't think you need to know him personally to make that conclusion. If you watch his old interviews compared to what he is now, the decline is painfully obvious.  He has deteriorated from a narcissistic creep to a senile narcissistic creep.

Meanwhile, Dump has been on Twitter again, insulting LeBron James.  LeBron James has been in the news for opening a school for at-risk youth in his home town of Akron, Ohio.  James is using some small portion of his personal fortune to pay for everything for the students.  Trump doesn't like it when people who aren't him receive positive press, so he went on Twitter to insult James.

Trump himself is of course no stranger to starting schools himself!  While LeBron's school will provide education for Akron kids who are at risk of falling through the cracks, "Trump University" existed for the sole purpose of conning people into giving him money.
https://qz.com/1348624/compare-donald-trumps-university-to-lebron-james-school/

Trump and LeBron both have charitable foundations!  The LeBron James Family Foundation focuses on education for underprivileged kids, with programs ranging from providing transportation to school to scholarships to even band camp, in addition to the new school.   The Trump Foundation initiatives include buying paintings of Donald Trump and bribing Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi to drop the state's fraud case against Trump University.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 04, 2018, 12:37:03 pm
He has deteriorated from a narcissistic creep to a senile narcissistic creep.

Reagan is another example of a President where there was a clear sign of his mental deterioration. Of course he was nothing like Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 04, 2018, 01:29:50 pm
Poor old Donny, now his buddy Kim is thumbing his nose at Trump by becoming an even more well endowed "rocket man" than he has been by building more nukes, and doing illegal trading, and Putin is thumbing his nose as well by not endorsing more sanctions for those trades, and China as well, and saying OK if you want trade wars we're ready to play. I hope he's enjoying his gold game.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 04, 2018, 07:34:17 pm
I bet it's noisy now at the Trump household after Malania sided with Lebron.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 04, 2018, 10:32:33 pm
So Trump wants the ACLU to take over returning children to their parents that he separated. Could the word HYPOCRISY be any more obvious?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 05, 2018, 11:35:20 am
I bet it's noisy now at the Trump household after Malania sided with Lebron.

I assume she'll be out of public view for a month, again.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 05, 2018, 11:37:17 am
Trump on Twitter today:
Quote
The Fake News hates me saying that they are the Enemy of the People only because they know it’s TRUE. I am providing a great service by explaining this to the American People. They purposely cause great division & distrust. They can also cause War! They are very dangerous & sick!

The guy is intent on inciting Redhats to commit violence against the press.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 05, 2018, 11:56:58 am
It's scary but I can imagine the Charlottesville crew is frothing at the mouth, ironing their swastika T-shirts and standing at the ready for a signal from their boss.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 05, 2018, 02:10:11 pm
It's hard to believe someone would try to claim Omarosa was unqualified to state the obvious after years of interacting with Trump. I can tell the fucker is batshit insane from that one tweet.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 05, 2018, 02:29:54 pm
One theory I heard from a political pundit was that while Donny makes ridiculous comments or tweets that appeal to his knuckle dragger base, and then backs off a day or two later, or has Malania do it, that that is meant to appeal to those who may have voted for him but have an IQ somewhat above room temperature, and so they are appeased that the wife and daughter will keep him from going too crazy and that's his plan to maintain enough of a following to stay in power. I think I hear fiddle music and also smell smoke.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 05, 2018, 08:19:27 pm
an IQ somewhat above room temperature

I would debate that this week, unless of course you are Canadian and measuring in Celsius.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 05, 2018, 08:25:38 pm
I would debate that this week, unless of course you are Canadian and measuring in Celsius.

I'm sure there are a lot of people with IQ above room temperature who voted for Trump.

Probably many of them are well-off people who thought "I don't really give a **** about most of this crap, but I sure could use a tax cut."

Probably many are people who thought "he can't really be that bad, right? He's on TV, he made lots of money, he can't be as bad as people say he is. This stuff they're saying about him, it's just hyperbole."

Probably there are many who thought "I don't like him, but I don't trust Hillary."

Probably many thought "I don't like him, but I am pro-life and I want the next Supreme Court judge to be a pro-life conservative."

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 05, 2018, 08:34:13 pm
I would debate that this week, unless of course you are Canadian and measuring in Celsius.

Ah pardon me for not specifying. Yes I meant C not F.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on August 05, 2018, 09:04:14 pm
Probably there are many who thought "I don't like him, but I don't trust Hillary."
Probably many thought "I don't like him, but I am pro-life and I want the next Supreme Court judge to be a pro-life conservative."
I think it is mistake to underestimate how much the Democrats and their signature policies are reviled by large segments of Americans. Cognitive dissonance will ensure that this group of people will rationalize away any problems with Trump as long as the only other alternative is voting for a Democrat. If there was another Ross Perot or if the dems choose a centrist that will be hated by their own radicals then this math could change. In the meantime, Trump could be could in bed with a dead body and his base would still support him because they will convince themselves it was a frame job by the "deep state".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 05, 2018, 09:17:39 pm
I think it is mistake to underestimate how much the Democrats and their signature policies are reviled by large segments of Americans. Cognitive dissonance will ensure that this group of people will rationalize away any problems with Trump as long as the only other alternative is voting for a Democrat. If there was another Ross Perot or if the dems choose a centrist that will be hated by their own radicals then this math could change. In the meantime, Trump could be could in bed with a dead body and his base would still support him because they will convince themselves it was a frame job by the "deep state".

Which democratic policies are you referring to?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 05, 2018, 09:24:06 pm
Which democratic policies are you referring to?

The signature ones, you know: inviting millions of terrorists to immigrate and be given free healthcare.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 05, 2018, 09:41:38 pm
The signature ones, you know: inviting millions of terrorists to immigrate and be given free healthcare.

Oh, I thought maybe it was creating all that "fake news"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on August 05, 2018, 09:57:18 pm
The signature ones, you know: inviting millions of terrorists to immigrate and be given free healthcare.
Informed people can understand arguments from multiple perspectives. Zealots can only see their view as the absolute truth. Which are you?

FWIW. Free healthcare has to be paid for by someone and requires the population accept the sacrifices in service quality that come with it.
Refusing to enforce immigration laws that protect the borders is also a recipe for all kinds of social problems.

These are both points where reasonable people can disagree. Failure to understand this is why the democrats have alienated a large segments of the US population.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 05, 2018, 10:27:39 pm
Informed people can understand arguments from multiple perspectives. Zealots can only see their view as the absolute truth. Which are you?

FWIW. Free healthcare has to be paid for by someone and requires the population accept the sacrifices in service quality that come with it.
Refusing to enforce immigration laws that protect the borders is also a recipe for all kinds of social problems.

These are both points where reasonable people can disagree. Failure to understand this is why the democrats have alienated a large segments of the US population.

I think we all understand that there is no such thing as free healthcare and that it has to be paid for by the taxpayer. Socialized health, which is what we have is much more preferable to the US system. A doctor needs to be well paid of course, but the firm he/she works for doesn't need to make huge profits from his/her work. And I'm still waiting for you to explain this democrat alienation. Trump has about 40% in the polls. That maybe a large segment in your mind but it's nowhere near a majority.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 06, 2018, 09:22:11 am
I'm sure there are a lot of people with IQ above room temperature who voted for Trump.

Probably many of them are well-off people who thought "I don't really give a **** about most of this crap, but I sure could use a tax cut."

Probably many are people who thought "he can't really be that bad, right? He's on TV, he made lots of money, he can't be as bad as people say he is. This stuff they're saying about him, it's just hyperbole."

Probably there are many who thought "I don't like him, but I don't trust Hillary."

Probably many thought "I don't like him, but I am pro-life and I want the next Supreme Court judge to be a pro-life conservative."

 -k

Was watching CNN this morning. They were at some immense biker convention somewhere. Masses and masses of tents and trailers and motorcycles. Lots and lots of hairy men and tattooed women. They all watch FOX and they all adore Trump and think he's doing a great job.

Underlying this is a column in the Spectator today, which says 'Who cares if Trump is presidential as long as he's getting things done?'

Now I would point out that thus far Trump has gotten virtually nothing done. Even the tax cut was done by the Republican party, not him. His only involvement was to persuade them to include special tax breaks for real estate developers. So far on trade he's accomplished nothing. In terms of international diplomacy, less than nothing. And he's had nothing to do with running the economy. In fact, almost all day to day decisions at the White House are made by Mike Pence, while Trump is tweeting and sleeping and watching TV and playing golf.

But if you're a FOX viewer you won't know that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 06, 2018, 09:24:23 am
Which democratic policies are you referring to?

Identity politics.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on August 06, 2018, 09:53:58 am
And I'm still waiting for you to explain this democrat alienation. Trump has about 40% in the polls.
The electoral college is what matters. 90% of the people in California and NY can tell pollsters they hate Trump but it will not change the outcome of a presidential election.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 06, 2018, 11:41:12 am
The electoral college is what matters. 90% of the people in California and NY can tell pollsters they hate Trump but it will not change the outcome of a presidential election.

Trump's electoral college victory was predicated on razor-thin wins in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.  The combined margin of victory in all 3 states was less than the population of Kim City.

And a lot of those voters who thought "meh, how bad could be be" or "I don't care how bad he is, I'm not voting for Clinton" won't make the same choice in the future.   He's unlikely to win those 3 states again.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 06, 2018, 12:06:59 pm
Was watching CNN this morning. They were at some immense biker convention somewhere. Masses and masses of tents and trailers and motorcycles. Lots and lots of hairy men and tattooed women. They all watch FOX and they all adore Trump and think he's doing a great job.

Of course. Dumb-ass redneck voters aren't a new phenomenon, and they'll vote Republican regardless, just as a similar but opposite dumb-ass demographic will vote Democrat regardless. Dumb-ass low-information voters exist at both ends of the political spectrum, and the possibility of flipping them or messaging to them is virtually non-existent.

Further,  I think that for some portion of the dumb-ass redneck demographic, Trump's belligerent tone is very appealing.  They think it's awesome when he insults people, they loved the "womp-womp" thing.   They think belligerence demonstrates strength and that sympathy and compassion are for weaklings.

Underlying this is a column in the Spectator today, which says 'Who cares if Trump is presidential as long as he's getting things done?'

And this is basically the same kind of rationalization we get from the evangelicals who continue to support Trump in spite of everything.  "Well, he's an abominable human being, but at least we get 2 conservative Supreme Court judges!"

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 06, 2018, 12:53:56 pm
The electoral college is what matters. 90% of the people in California and NY can tell pollsters they hate Trump but it will not change the outcome of a presidential election.

Which is why the EC is outdated and should be dismantled. As I suspect you are aware, Trump did not win the pop. vote and as a matter of fact he is still stewing about that trying to blame illegal voters or whatever his latest BS is on that issue.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 06, 2018, 01:15:39 pm
So now Trump does admit ( via tweet of course) that there was a meeting at Trump tower to get dirt on Hillary prior to the election. PING and the duck turns the other direction. Again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 06, 2018, 01:21:04 pm
Which is why the EC is outdated and should be dismantled. As I suspect you are aware, Trump did not win the pop. vote and as a matter of fact he is still stewing about that trying to blame illegal voters or whatever his latest BS is on that issue.

Illegal voters can have the same effect on electoral college results.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 06, 2018, 01:31:51 pm
Illegal voters can have the same effect on electoral college results.

One problem I would have with the EC is they are not required to vote the pop. vote.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 06, 2018, 01:51:52 pm
Just caught Don Lemon's response to Trump's tweet as to Don and Lebron being dumb after the piece that was done on the school Lebron is funding. "So who is dumber, someone who puts kids in classrooms, or someone who puts kids in cages"?

Take that Donny! 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on August 06, 2018, 02:57:58 pm
He's unlikely to win those 3 states again.
Unless the dems let their own radicals choose the candidate. If that happens Trump could easily increase his vote over last time. Do not underestimate how much left wing politics is despised in red states nor the power of rationalization brought on by cognitive dissonance.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 06, 2018, 03:42:44 pm
Kudos to Malania for standing up to her bone head hubby. I bet when he's impeached you won't see her for the dust as she leaves him behind.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 06, 2018, 07:27:58 pm
Dumb-ass low-information voters exist at both ends of the political spectrum

I keep saying that the idea of a two ended political spectrum is dumb-ass.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 06, 2018, 07:46:12 pm
so now that we know there was a Trump tower meeting (I think most of us knew anyway) who gets to face the perjury charge? Will Donald take the heat or will he throw his son under the bus? Any bets?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 07, 2018, 09:11:45 am
I keep saying that the idea of a two ended political spectrum is dumb-ass.

What I meant is that in the US there's going to be a bunch of dumb-ass voters who support party A unconditionally, and a bunch of dumb-ass voters who support party B unconditionally.   Trying to describe peoples' politics using a 2-ended political spectrum might be dumb, but in the US describing their voting preferences on a 2-ended spectrum is reasonable.

-k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 07, 2018, 09:23:34 am
so now that we know there was a Trump tower meeting (I think most of us knew anyway) who gets to face the perjury charge? Will Donald take the heat or will he throw his son under the bus? Any bets?

We've known there was a Trump Tower meeting for a long time.

Donny Jr and The Kush were upset that Natalya Veselnitskaya or whatever her name was kept wanting to talk about "adoptions".    (They were apparently not smart enough to figure out that when she taps her nose and says "adoptions" she means "sanctions".)

The only new development here is Trump acknowledging for the first time that yes, the meeting was supposed to give them dirt on Clinton.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 07, 2018, 10:03:07 am
Unless the dems let their own radicals choose the candidate. If that happens Trump could easily increase his vote over last time. Do not underestimate how much left wing politics is despised in red states nor the power of rationalization brought on by cognitive dissonance.

What radical left winger is currently elected?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 07, 2018, 11:07:31 am
We've known there was a Trump Tower meeting for a long time.

Donny Jr and The Kush were upset that Natalya Veselnitskaya or whatever her name was kept wanting to talk about "adoptions".    (They were apparently not smart enough to figure out that when she taps her nose and says "adoptions" she means "sanctions".)

The only new development here is Trump acknowledging for the first time that yes, the meeting was supposed to give them dirt on Clinton.

 -k

Yes, we've known for a long time but Trump has denied it for almost as long. His admission now, such as it is, could leave Jr. in hot water as in lying under oath.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 07, 2018, 03:20:59 pm
Spike Lee has a new movie coming out which he claims will help deny Trump a second term in the WHITE House.  It apparently shows various real world videos and concludes with footage of the march in Charlottesville. I'll be giving this a watch.

https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/movies/2018/07/27/spike-lee-sounds-his-alarm-with-new-film-blackkklansman.html


In watching the Charlottesville riots at the end of Lee’s film, Stallworth said, “None of that surprised me. The Klan naturally recruits those disgruntled people who today we would call Donald Trump supporters. That’s the natural base for groups like the Klan.

“Donald Trump is the physical embodiment of what David Duke wanted to accomplish 40 years earlier.”

Lee disputed that his film was targeting Trump, whom he calls Agent Orange — “I can’t say his name.”
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 07, 2018, 06:15:29 pm
What radical left winger is currently elected?

None with any power anywhere....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 07, 2018, 06:40:46 pm
What radical left winger is currently elected?

I think that was the point.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 07, 2018, 07:31:25 pm
I just flipped the TV on and I see O'connor is well ahead of Balderson at the moment. If that holds then so much for having Trump come and campaign for you, even in a staunchly Republican district.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 07, 2018, 09:57:36 pm
I just flipped the TV on and I see O'connor is well ahead of Balderson at the moment.

Didn't last, Balderson squeaked with a 0.9% margin. That might trigger a recount, not sure.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 07, 2018, 10:02:28 pm
Didn't last, Balderson squeaked with a 0.9% margin. That might trigger a recount, not sure.

Has to be 0.5% or less for the recount so I hear. However, that close a call in such a ruby red state will have the Repubs concerned I expect.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 08, 2018, 12:02:27 pm
Has to be 0.5% or less for the recount so I hear. However, that close a call in such a ruby red state will have the Repubs concerned I expect.

Doesn't matter a damned. As long as almost 90% of Republican voters approve of Trump their politicians are going to have to suck it up and smile. No matter what he does.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 08, 2018, 12:08:45 pm
Doesn't matter a damned. As long as almost 90% of Republican voters approve of Trump their politicians are going to have to suck it up and smile. No matter what he does.

When you come that close to losing in such a traditionally ruby red state it tells you something. I'll hold off jumping the gun until the midterms. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 08, 2018, 01:58:32 pm
I guess we have yet another indicator of what Trump's actual influence on "the swamp" amounts to with the arrest of Rep. Chris Collins, the first congressman to endorse Trump's bid for the presidency.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/08/politics/chris-collins-indicted-insider-trading/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 08, 2018, 02:35:04 pm
I guess we have yet another indicator of what Trump's actual influence on "the swamp" amounts to with the arrest of Rep. Chris Collins, the first congressman to endorse Trump's bid for the presidency.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/08/politics/chris-collins-indicted-insider-trading/index.html

I have suspected for some time that Trump and his family are engaging in inside trading. All they have to do is short certain companies like Boeing or Amazon before Trump attacks them, or short the market before he issues another demand for high tariffs. They could make a fortune.

And here's the thing. It's not even illegal.
Insider trading laws only apply to those who have personal knowledge of a company, as in this case, a guy who sat on the board of directors, or people they communicate inside information too. They can't be applied to politicians even if they know the government is going to do something which will have a huge impact on the market, or even on individual companies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 08, 2018, 08:25:03 pm
And here's the thing. It's not even illegal.

No, the system has a basic assumption that those who lead will look out for the goodwill of their countrymen.  What rubes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 08, 2018, 10:52:23 pm
I just flipped the TV on and I see O'connor is well ahead of Balderson at the moment.

Just found out that 190 votes for the Democrat were magically "lost" by the Republican state run election apparatus. There are also 8500 uncounted votes (mail in, etc.). This could still change, and that is before a recount.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 08, 2018, 11:05:34 pm
I have suspected for some time that Trump and his family are engaging in inside trading. All they have to do is short certain companies like Boeing or Amazon before Trump attacks them, or short the market before he issues another demand for high tariffs. They could make a fortune.

And here's the thing. It's not even illegal.
Insider trading laws only apply to those who have personal knowledge of a company, as in this case, a guy who sat on the board of directors, or people they communicate inside information too. They can't be applied to politicians even if they know the government is going to do something which will have a huge impact on the market, or even on individual companies.

You just contradicted yourself.  fyou had information that daddy was going to attack a company and then acted on that information to adjust stocks you have committed a crime.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 08, 2018, 11:10:43 pm
Just found out that 190 votes for the Democrat were magically "lost" by the Republican state run election apparatus. There are also 8500 uncounted votes (mail in, etc.). This could still change, and that is before a recount.

Oh what fun if the absentee votes etc. turned the table in favor of O'Connor after Trump declared a victory for Balderson! More noiser in the west wing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 09, 2018, 12:01:39 pm
You just contradicted yourself.  fyou had information that daddy was going to attack a company and then acted on that information to adjust stocks you have committed a crime.

No, you have not. The only people who can have insider information, according to the law, are people who get it from the companies involved.

Steve Kroft: What do you mean honest graft?


Schweizer: For example insider trading on the stock market. If you are a member of Congress, those laws are deemed not to apply.

Kroft: So congressman get a pass on insider trading?

Schweizer: They do. The fact is, if you sit on a healthcare committee and you know that Medicare, for example, is-- is considering not reimbursing for a certain drug that's market moving information. And if you can trade stock on-- off of that information and do so legally, that's a great profit making opportunity. And that sort of behavior goes on.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/congress-trading-stock-on-inside-information/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 09, 2018, 12:09:29 pm
No, you have not. The only people who can have insider information, according to the law, are people who get it from the companies involved.

Steve Kroft: What do you mean honest graft?


Schweizer: For example insider trading on the stock market. If you are a member of Congress, those laws are deemed not to apply.

Kroft: So congressman get a pass on insider trading?

Schweizer: They do. The fact is, if you sit on a healthcare committee and you know that Medicare, for example, is-- is considering not reimbursing for a certain drug that's market moving information. And if you can trade stock on-- off of that information and do so legally, that's a great profit making opportunity. And that sort of behavior goes on.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/congress-trading-stock-on-inside-information/

It depends how you get the information and how you act on that information. Give ya a hint though, if you get info keep it to yourself.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 09, 2018, 12:12:23 pm
No, you have not. The only people who can have insider information, according to the law, are people who get it from the companies involved.

Steve Kroft: What do you mean honest graft?


Schweizer: For example insider trading on the stock market. If you are a member of Congress, those laws are deemed not to apply.

Kroft: So congressman get a pass on insider trading?

Schweizer: They do. The fact is, if you sit on a healthcare committee and you know that Medicare, for example, is-- is considering not reimbursing for a certain drug that's market moving information. And if you can trade stock on-- off of that information and do so legally, that's a great profit making opportunity. And that sort of behavior goes on.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/congress-trading-stock-on-inside-information/

I don't know if I should be surprised or not. I guess not, the Trump administration has shown us all how toothless the American system is when it comes to conflicts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 09, 2018, 05:09:28 pm
A little more hypocrisy from Trump and maybe a little more turmoil in the white house: After Trump's harangues about so called "chain migration" Malania does just that by sponsoring her parents to become US citizens. Will the gongshow ever end?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 10, 2018, 11:53:41 am
I'm seeing just now that Michael Avenatti, (lawyer for Stormy Daniels) is running around Iowa shaking hands and says he is thinking about running against Trump in 2020. That could be an interesting event. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 10, 2018, 01:43:56 pm
I'm seeing just now that Michael Avenatti, (lawyer for Stormy Daniels) is running around Iowa shaking hands and says he is thinking about running against Trump in 2020. That could be an interesting event.

Publicity **** lawyer for a presidential candidate....   just what America needs. ::)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 10, 2018, 02:05:01 pm
Publicity **** lawyer for a presidential candidate....   just what America needs. ::)

Yeah I don't see the swamp being drained any time soon. But the debates might be interesting. Donny wouldn't have his "crooked Hillary" meme to prattle on about, and Avenatti could bring up the "Mom and apple pie" credo and point out Donny's a ****. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 10, 2018, 02:27:54 pm
We all know Trump is a fan of Fox Faux news, which I assume he concludes is the only network that is not fake news, and now he has David Duke as an endorsing partner. Now we're gettin' really swampy!

https://www.thewrap.com/david-duke-laura-ingraham-ku-klux-klan-immigration-monologue/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 12, 2018, 08:25:35 pm
Avenatti is hilarious. I'm sure he's just doing whatever he thinks will cause Trump the most annoyance.  He's a master troll.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 12, 2018, 08:33:27 pm
Avenatti is hilarious. I'm sure he's just doing whatever he thinks will cause Trump the most annoyance.  He's a master troll.

 -k

Whew I'm sure it's bugging the shyte out of Trump. But hey ya never know, nobody thought Trump was likely to win. I have this image of Stormy sitting in the front row winking at Donald during the debates.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 14, 2018, 12:13:20 pm
Manafort's defense rests without making a case...WOW!. He's only facing 300 + years in prison if convicted. Does this mean he is flipping on Trump bigly?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 14, 2018, 01:36:44 pm
Manafort's defense rests without making a case...WOW!. He's only facing 300 + years in prison if convicted. Does this mean he is flipping on Trump bigly?

Or has he been promised a pardon if he shuts up and is convicted?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 14, 2018, 01:39:55 pm
Or has he been promised a pardon if he shuts up and is convicted?

That could well be too. Trumpty dumbty loves signing ****.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 14, 2018, 03:20:38 pm
Or has he been promised a pardon if he shuts up and is convicted?

If that happens he should be arrested on the court stairs on a warrant from New York to be held until his state trial on the same charges.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 14, 2018, 05:26:19 pm
Or has he been promised a pardon if he shuts up and is convicted?

Pardoning a co-conspirator could be impeachable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 14, 2018, 05:53:04 pm
Trump, Manafort, Amarosa etc.  They're all a bunch of lowlifes. Get out the popcorn and enjoy the entertainment as they go about tearing each other apart. Hopefully.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 14, 2018, 09:28:28 pm
I hear that Omarosa has been interviewed by Mueller today. That may be good for another round of popcorn.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 14, 2018, 09:39:44 pm
I hear that Omarosa has been interviewed by Mueller today. That may be good for another round of popcorn.

She said she was interviewed by his team, but was evasive on when. My suspicion is that it was very superficial, perhaps a phone call with a couple of questions. She certainly seems to be opening the door to have an interview.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 14, 2018, 09:45:59 pm
She said she was interviewed by his team, but was evasive on when. My suspicion is that it was very superficial, perhaps a phone call with a couple of questions. She certainly seems to be opening the door to have an interview.

Mueller and his team will emerge from this as experts on swamp creatures. It seems to be a lengthy course though.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 15, 2018, 11:11:23 am
Pardoning a co-conspirator could be impeachable.

Trump could shoot people in the street and this congress wouldn't impeach him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 15, 2018, 11:13:23 am
So for those waiting for 2020 so Trump gets his ass kicked at the polls, well... that's looking less and less likely. His popularity is rising. The popularity of the Democrats is falling, and they're being seen more and more as wildly out of touch with the American mainstream - because they ARE.

There’s more. As Thomas Edsall writes in The New York Times, other data show the concerns of the Democratic elite and ordinary voters are badly mismatched. The elite care far more about gay rights, gender equality and racial equality. Voters care far more about terrorism, crime, taxes, deficits, religious liberty and immigration. “To put it bluntly,” Mr. Edsall writes, “there is a huge gulf between the priorities of the Democratic elite, which exercises significant influence over party policy making, and the general public.”

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-democrats-are-self-destructing-again/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 15, 2018, 11:16:07 am
Well..

Yes but maybe no.  They are electing more people from marginalized groups but the senior leadership doesn't like it.

Also they look and sound more like real people so they may strike a chord with the electorate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 15, 2018, 11:20:05 am
Trump could shoot people in the street and this congress wouldn't impeach him.

This congress might just look a bit different come November.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 15, 2018, 11:44:42 am
Well..

Yes but maybe no.  They are electing more people from marginalized groups but the senior leadership doesn't like it.

Also they look and sound more like real people so they may strike a chord with the electorate.

The path to certain victory lies in moving right, to draw in all the voters the Republicans have abandoned by moving too far to their right. The Democrats appear set to move left instead. And while many commentators said the major cause of their loss last time was ignoring the concerns of middle America this time they seem intent on actually deliberately giving the finger to middle America. It's sanctimonious stupidity if it gives Trump a path to re-election.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 15, 2018, 11:46:41 am
This congress might just look a bit different come November.

You need a 2/3rds vote in the Senate to impeach. There are only 35 seats at stake and 26 of them are already held by the Democrats. So there's zero chance of impeachment without Republican votes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on August 15, 2018, 11:55:31 am
You don't need to impeach him. If he knows his entire agenda (which he really doesn't have one) will be checked by Congress, he might end up quitting. If not it'll just be another two years of a Do-Nothing congress. Not much different than the Obama years.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 15, 2018, 11:56:55 am
You need a 2/3rds vote in the Senate to impeach.

There was 2/3rds for a lot of things, until recently. Yes, I am well aware that it is in Article 1, section 3, and would be difficult/impossible to change; just pointing out the stupidity that Dotard has been able to get away with.

Note that convincing Republicans to stay away is a viable alternative to voting. There have to be a few honest ones in their midst.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 15, 2018, 12:07:01 pm
You need a 2/3rds vote in the Senate to impeach. There are only 35 seats at stake and 26 of them are already held by the Democrats. So there's zero chance of impeachment without Republican votes.

And there are repubs. drifting that way, especially since this family separation debacle. And it looks likely the gop loses the house come November and they can vote for impeachment even though it may not result in removal from office when it hits the senate. However the possibility of indictment looms large over a number of issues.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 15, 2018, 12:30:17 pm
You don't need to impeach him. If he knows his entire agenda (which he really doesn't have one) will be checked by Congress, he might end up quitting. If not it'll just be another two years of a Do-Nothing congress. Not much different than the Obama years.

Well now there are a number of ways Trump has done much more in half a term than Obama ever did, for instance: Trump has managed "bigly" achieving the highest number of high level staff turnover in history, he so far has 5 federal investigations into his activities underway, (Obama had zero), and I don't recall the word impeachment being discussed on damn near every American news channel every other day (other than Faux of course). So, I'd say we have to conclude Trump has been busier than Obama, on certain fronts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 15, 2018, 02:01:48 pm
So now Trump revokes security clearances for those who had them but who criticized him publicly. Once again he proves himself nothing but a narcissistic twit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 15, 2018, 02:04:24 pm
revokes security clearances

My mommy used to be the lunch lady at school, and when Joey called me names she short changed him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 15, 2018, 02:07:34 pm
My mommy used to be the lunch lady at school, and when Joey called me names she short changed him.

Joey had it coming.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 15, 2018, 02:12:04 pm
And of course the reason he did that was to move the media along from the Omarosa issue, especially when you consider a number of the people on Trump's security clearance list already didn't have them anymore.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 15, 2018, 04:01:33 pm
Deport all the squirrels, they are up to something. (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/huppke/ct-met-trump-omarosa-dog-racist-huppke-20180815-story.html#)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 15, 2018, 04:10:59 pm
Deport all the squirrels, they are up to something. (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/huppke/ct-met-trump-omarosa-dog-racist-huppke-20180815-story.html#)

Since when did they have peanut flavored milk bones? I haven't had a dog in a while.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 15, 2018, 06:26:01 pm
You don't need to impeach him. If he knows his entire agenda (which he really doesn't have one) will be checked by Congress, he might end up quitting. If not it'll just be another two years of a Do-Nothing congress. Not much different than the Obama years.

Did Obama quit? Nope. Trump isn't going to quit. He has to be fired. And self-serving political bullshit that gets in the way of that is frustrating. The moronic Democrats just decided their nominee to run against the Republican governor of Vermont is going to be a transgendered man. Way to absolutely solidify every right of center and religious vote for the Republicans, you **** geniuses.

Maybe they can find a black Muslim woman in a burka to run for President so they can high five each other and stick out their chests proudly as they congratulate each other on their inclusiveness. Then they can cry bitter tears while they watch Trump sworn in for his second term.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 15, 2018, 07:32:16 pm
Did Obama quit? Nope. Trump isn't going to quit. He has to be fired. And self-serving political bullshit that gets in the way of that is frustrating. The moronic Democrats just decided their nominee to run against the Republican governor of Vermont is going to be a transgendered man. Way to absolutely solidify every right of center and religious vote for the Republicans, you **** geniuses.

Maybe they can find a black Muslim woman in a burka to run for President so they can high five each other and stick out their chests proudly as they congratulate each other on their inclusiveness. Then they can cry bitter tears while they watch Trump sworn in for his second term.

I imagine words spewing around the oval office quite similar to your little screed here. I bet in your heart of hearts you'd be happy to see Trump re-elected.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 15, 2018, 07:38:14 pm
Trump is now in essence trying to quash free speech by revoking these security clearances. And from people who have knowledge which could be very helpful in a time of crisis. (9-11 comes to mind) I originally thought the comparison between Trump and Hitler was a tad over the top however I am rapidly seeing the validity of it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 15, 2018, 08:57:07 pm
I imagine words spewing around the oval office quite similar to your little screed here. I bet in your heart of hearts you'd be happy to see Trump re-elected.

I think I've written far more coherently and intelligently on the many character flaws of Donald Trump than a sniveling prog snowflake like you could ever manage.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 15, 2018, 09:22:26 pm
I wonder if Trump has spent any time watching clips of Nixon's resignation speech. He'll need to practice the body language a fair bit. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 15, 2018, 09:24:16 pm
He'll need to practice the body language a fair bit.

I don't know if he can raise his hands that high.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 15, 2018, 09:41:52 pm
I don't know if he can raise his hands that high.

Well he may have to do a little exercise and maybe lay off the Cokes and burgers a bit, but his hands are rather small so not that heavy to lift I would think.

Although I could be wrong: I just heard Trump referred to as a homonculus. I wasn't familiar with that word so I looked it up. Here's an image of one

Rear_of_Sensory_Homunculus
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 16, 2018, 07:19:44 am
I'm just an observer.  I don't believe half the stuff trump says, however I know that it puts the left into a tizzy which I find glorious. 

The thing is the only people who care about his Sweden remark is democrats and the press.  His supporters are not caring about his bombast and are looking at his results which are executive orders checking off campaign promises.  Keystone xl check...

Not so fast, a federal judge has just put Keystone XL on hold pending a full environmental review of the new route.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 16, 2018, 02:56:27 pm
Not so fast, a federal judge has just put Keystone XL on hold pending a full environmental review of the new route.

Better get digging the new Trans Mountain. The Americans are no longer reliable for anything.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 16, 2018, 03:17:59 pm
Quite a comment from the retired Navy Admiral who oversaw the capture of Osama in response to Trump's holus bolus revoking security clearances of people he doesn't happen to like.

“I would consider it an honor if you would revoke my security clearance as well, so I can add my name to the list of men and women who have spoken up against your presidency,” McRaven wrote.

The decorated military leader, who was integral in the 2011 killing of bin Laden in Pakistan, stressed that a good leader “always puts the welfare of others before himself or herself,” but said that’s not the case for Trump.

“Your leadership, however, has shown little of those qualities,” McRaven wrote. “Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage, and, worst of all, divided us as a nation.”


https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/commander-bin-laden-raid-security-clearance_us_5b75ccf7e4b05906b4117dc5
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 16, 2018, 05:14:10 pm
Trump seems to be losing his marbles in similar fashion as Nixon, and Donald can't even blame it on booze. I wonder if the Secret Service is keeping "the football" out of his reach as they did with Nixon toward the end. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 16, 2018, 05:22:00 pm
I wonder if the Secret Service is keeping "the football" out of his reach as they did with Nixon toward the end.

They probably did that since day 1. They have someone following him around with a NFL football and tell him that is the magic thing he can't touch unless he is ready to declare nuclear war; that is why he is so uptight about the NFL.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 16, 2018, 07:11:43 pm
They probably did that since day 1. They have someone following him around with a NFL football and tell him that is the magic thing he can't touch unless he is ready to declare nuclear war; that is why he is so uptight about the NFL.

Those son's o ****!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 17, 2018, 02:11:09 pm
After a bit of a quiet period from Trump today as he stumbled his way to Marine 1 he blathered on to reporters about what a "wonderful man" Manafort is, while the **** jury is deliberating his court case. That's way off base and I think Trump should be held in contempt.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 17, 2018, 11:15:19 pm
After a bit of a quiet period from Trump today as he stumbled his way to Marine 1 he blathered on to reporters about what a "wonderful man" Manafort is, while the **** jury is deliberating his court case. That's way off base and I think Trump should be held in contempt.

Free speech doesn’t dissapear for the rest of the world just because a jury is deliberating a verdict.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 17, 2018, 11:20:57 pm
Free speech doesn’t dissapear for the rest of the world just because a jury is deliberating a verdict.

That's technically true of course, however when you are the POTUS, and the outcome of the case could directly affect you, you should keep your mouth shut until the verdict is delivered.
Trump of course is a deer caught in the headlights and he'll do anything he can to try and deflect. Omarosa is his latest issue that scares the **** out of him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 18, 2018, 12:04:36 am
That's technically true of course, however when you are the POTUS, and the outcome of the case could directly affect you, you should keep your mouth shut until the verdict is delivered.

If you are POTUS you should STFU regardless. If the case is about you, you should be impeached and sent to break rocks in Leavenworth.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 18, 2018, 12:15:07 am
If you are POTUS you should STFU regardless. If the case is about you, you should be impeached and sent to break rocks in Leavenworth.

KellyAnne could bring him sips of water and dab the sweat from his brow when she wasn't busy swinging around a brass pole at the local bar.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 18, 2018, 08:19:56 am
Now he is firing and censoring senior civil servants because of their political views. I watched the FOX coverage of this and it was just shameful.  The impact of doing this is a sea change in how government runs, and if Democrats did it they would call to arms.  The FOX coverage just shrugged it off.

Without balanced media, there is no true public forum.  I think that Canadian media, especially CBC, is "conservative" in that it backs the status quo too much so in a sense it's a mirror-image of the American problem, but it can be reformed.  Also, many Canadians are already at odds with their media whereas FOX is wholeheartedly supported by the sheeple.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 18, 2018, 11:55:17 am
Now he is blaming Canada for the California fires. What a supremely ignorant, patently dishonest man.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 18, 2018, 12:13:58 pm
Now he is blaming Canada for the California fires. What a supremely ignorant, patently dishonest man.

Sat. photos from NASA show we are exporting a lot of smoke across the US border. We should charge for it so Donny can slap a tariff on it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 18, 2018, 12:14:27 pm
Now he is blaming Canada for the California fires. What a supremely ignorant, patently dishonest man.

The US is responsible for obesity in Canadians, we need to implement a 200% tariff on all American fast food.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 18, 2018, 12:28:26 pm
Damn, up goes the price of my Timmy's.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 18, 2018, 12:50:34 pm
It turns out that it was a Lock-Mart built, US government supplied guided missile that the Saudi's used to target a school bus in Yemen killing at least 40 children. This is of course after the current US government lifted the ban on such weapons being sold to Saudis that had been imposed by Obama. That's just out of the first $110 billion package, there's another $240 billion on the way.
Yay, another notch in Trump's "make america great again" sales pitch.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 18, 2018, 03:11:11 pm
Can't wait to hear what Don McGahn had to say to Mueller during 3 separate interviews and how Trump responds. It'll throw him off his golf game I imagine. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 19, 2018, 04:32:34 pm
Hard to decide day by day who is the looniest, Trump or his counsel Giulliani. Rudy made the comment in a TV interview that "truth isn't truth", and both he and Trump claim that Trump "allowed" Don McGahn to testify for over 30 hours in front of the Mueller probe. Their attempts to spin the ball in their favor become ever more ridiculous, however I'm sure the conservative knuckle draggers who support him are dumb enough to be sucked in by it. I've always felt lucky to be a Canadian, but never more than these days.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 19, 2018, 07:33:47 pm
I guess any Trump supporters have left here for the "other" site or are hiding under their beds.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 19, 2018, 09:44:56 pm
can't think of any trump supporters on this site off hand.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 19, 2018, 10:58:47 pm
There doesn't seem to be many left anywhere, but maybe I just run in the right circles. But there seems to be fewer and fewer people willing to defend him. Those who used to defend him don't like talking about him much at all anymore.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 19, 2018, 11:14:48 pm
And yet the polls I've seen seem to show his base is still there, and perhaps even increasing slightly. Go figure.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on August 19, 2018, 11:34:46 pm
There doesn't seem to be many left anywhere, but maybe I just run in the right circles.
Trump has made the echo chambers worse. His fans stick to forums with other fans and vise versa. It is not as if there can be a rational debate about his merits. You either blindly support him and rationalize away any problems or you think he is a crook unfit for office.

What is most pathetic to me are  people claiming to be anti-government and pro-economy but defending Trump's absurd tariffs wars because he is 'just negotiating' and is really a free trader despite the evidence that he wants the tariffs to be permanent (e.g. NAFTA talks with Mexico are stalled because Trump wants a 25% tariff on non-NAFTA cars).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 20, 2018, 09:02:36 am
I heard an economics podcast that estimated the benefits of winning some of these disputes at half of .1 percent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 20, 2018, 11:19:34 am
I heard an economics podcast that estimated the benefits of winning some of these disputes at half of .1 percent.

Populist demagogues aren't interested in economics. Turkey's president won't let his finance ministry raise interest rates because he believes that CAUSES inflation, rather than fights it. He appointed his son in law as finance minister. You can guess the results. Then we have Venezuala's loonie fist pumping idiot Maduro, who's policy for companies raising prices was to take over the companies (which promptly went out of business). The IMF estimates the inflation rate in Venezuela this year will hit one MILLION percent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 20, 2018, 11:57:26 am
Whew I can see another battle brewing in the WH. Today the first lady remarked in a speech that was critical of cyber bullying. Of course her husband does basically nothing but, probably because he hasn't got the brains to rise much above the "I know you are but what am I" level. I somehow doubt he'll send any nasty tweets out about her. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 20, 2018, 04:19:41 pm
I think these more recent and more extreme "populist" politicians wouldn't be needed if politicians were more populist in the first place, and actually did what their constituents wanted instead of doing what politicians think were best for them and society as a whole.  Politicians are afraid to do what people actually want because of the PC culture led by the MSM will slander them a xenophobe, racist etc even though it's not necessarily true.  So it takes a complete jackarse like Trump who is the only POTUS candidate I remember who literally didn't give two craps what any pundit/journalist thought of him (which obviously comes with its own problems) to be anti-PC and do what many people want

I think there's a healthy medium between a Trudeau and a Trump, between ultra-PC and "FU I don't give an eff".  I like people who will call a spade a spade and won't be bullied, but that's rare and takes a huge amount of guts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on August 20, 2018, 04:51:42 pm
This kind of crap is why Trump was elected:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-trudeau-defends-his-reaction-to-heckler-pledges-to-call-out-hate/

Quote
During a campaign-style rally Thursday southeast of Montreal, the woman shouted questions in French at Trudeau, asking him when the federal government would repay Quebec for costs it has incurred as a result of an influx of “illegal immigrants” coming over the Canada-U.S. border.
...
The prime minister responded to the woman by accusing her of intolerance and racism and saying her sentiments were not welcome
Calling a legitimate complaint about the costs of securing the border "intolerance and racism" debases the meaning of the words and makes extremists seem reasonable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 20, 2018, 05:39:27 pm
 ???  I don't understand how this could work in the current environment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 20, 2018, 06:00:11 pm
This kind of crap is why Trump was elected:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-trudeau-defends-his-reaction-to-heckler-pledges-to-call-out-hate/
Calling a legitimate complaint about the costs of securing the border "intolerance and racism" debases the meaning of the words and makes extremists seem reasonable.

Actually Trump was elected for doing exactly the opposite.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 21, 2018, 01:29:01 pm
Anybody care to take a guess as to where the jury is going with Manafort? It looks like they are getting close and I'm thinking he's off to jail. And then of course Cohen has got a gig in a couple of hours where he may be indicted or perhaps he is about to flip on the guy he said he "take a bullet for". Trump must be biting his nails right now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 21, 2018, 02:14:44 pm
Sounds like the judge isn't being very responsive when it comes to their requests for options. Basically he is telling them to figure it out because that is their job and if there are any hold outs, it's time they should start listening to the majority of their piers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 21, 2018, 02:27:31 pm
What I'm wondering is have the jury come to an agreement on 17 of the charges and are simply stuck on some issue with one, and if so what is the verdict of the 17? I'm sticking my neck out and saying guilty, but we shall see soon apparently.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 21, 2018, 03:43:13 pm
So Manafort guilty on 8, mistrial on 10. That could see him off to jail for the rest of his days unless Trumpy boy signs a pardon for him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 21, 2018, 04:07:27 pm
So Manafort guilty on 8, mistrial on 10. That could see him off to jail for the rest of his days unless Trumpy boy signs a pardon for him.

He'll absolutely pardon him.  His defense called no witnesses, but why bother when you'll get off anyways?  POTUS pardons are stupid, it only protects themselves and their party & associates in case they get caught breaking the law.  Essentially, nobody in any admin can serve much time.  That means the system is fundamentally corrupt with ultimately no legal accountability for crimes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 21, 2018, 04:17:58 pm
Cohen pleads guilty to 8 felony charges, and says he did so at the direction of the 'candidate'.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 21, 2018, 04:48:08 pm
Cohen pleads guilty to 8 felony charges, and says he did so at the direction of the 'candidate'.

And some of those charges/pleads could well implicate Trump in a number of felonies. I think this is about to get real interesting.
He might start getting some coaching as to how to get himself pardoned, such as resigning and then getting Pence to step up and pardon him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 21, 2018, 04:49:31 pm
Quote
So Manafort guilty on 8, mistrial on 10. That could see him off to jail for the rest of his days unless Trumpy boy signs a pardon for him.
He'll absolutely pardon him.
The trouble with pardoning him is that it means that Manafort can now be compelled to testify against Trump (whereas before he could always "plead the 5th".)

Quote
His defense called no witnesses, but why bother when you'll get off anyways?
From what I've read, that's not that unusual... There are some reasons why a defense might not call any witnesses:
- They may want to portray an air of "we're so assured of our innocence that we won't even bother calling rebuttal witnesses"
- Any witnesses that the defense calls might be cross examined, and end up damaging Manafort more than helping

Quote
POTUS pardons are stupid, it only protects themselves and their party & associates in case they get caught breaking the law.  Essentially, nobody in any admin can serve much time.  That means the system is fundamentally corrupt with ultimately no legal accountability for crimes.
Actually I do think there is value in pardons (well, assuming the president himself is not corrupt). The idea of pardons is that it can serve as a mechanism in cases where the "justice system" has made mistakes, or the particulars of someone's incarceration outweigh the severity of the crime.

Trump is misusing pardons, but he is misusing many of the trappings of his office. The problem is not the pardons, its the man.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 21, 2018, 05:34:36 pm
Blaming Trudeau for the election of Trump is an interesting take...    :P
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 21, 2018, 05:48:15 pm
Today is Trump's Trifecta Tuesday

Manafort convicted on 8 counts
Cohen pleads guilty to 8 counts
Duncan and wife (GOPers) convicted of stealing a quarter million in campaign contributions
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 21, 2018, 06:02:19 pm
Yep and of course he promised to "drain the swamp", and "bring in the best people". The courts will likely be busy for some time to come actually draining that swamp.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 21, 2018, 06:11:48 pm
Omorosa is supposed to release a tape tonight...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 21, 2018, 09:25:42 pm
Omorosa is supposed to release a tape tonight...

She should save it for a slow news day.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 21, 2018, 09:30:34 pm
Current mood:

(https://i.imgur.com/Zjwo4.gif)

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 21, 2018, 09:34:11 pm
She should save it for a slow news day.

 -k

Maybe she thinks piling on will make him blow a gasket. Also depends on what it is and how much more she has. So far she has been matching Trump at his own game, maybe more than matching. The next month or so is going to be very entertaining.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 21, 2018, 09:40:08 pm
I haven't visited the old place to see how the Trumptards there are dealing with today's events, but here is how I imagine they are reacting:

 Crabby old lady #1:  "why is everybody talking about Trump so much? This is Canada. We should focus on Trudeau."

 Crabby old lady #2: "yes, we should talk about Trump less and Trudeau more. Trudeau is quite bad. Why aren't we talking about him instead of Trump?"

 Pastor McFuckface: "Trump NOT CONVICTED of ANYTHING!  TEN counts of MISTRIAL!!! Economy is GOOD!"

Tard-on-Porch: "At least it's not Hillary! The ISLAMS!  Muslim Brotherhood!"

USA-USA: "Associates of Canadian Prime Ministers have been convicted of crimes before. Where is Chuck Guite now?"

Jewish Lawyer: "An American Woman was murdered by an immigrant."

Am I close?

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 21, 2018, 09:41:09 pm
Maybe she thinks piling on will make him blow a gasket. Also depends on what it is and how much more she has. So far she has been matching Trump at his own game, maybe more than matching. The next month or so is going to be very entertaining.

"Maybe it wasn't a good idea to hire a reality-TV villain for a job inside the White House."  -some conservative commentator.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 21, 2018, 09:46:17 pm
He'll absolutely pardon him.
The trouble with pardoning him is that it means that Manafort can now be compelled to testify against Trump (whereas before he could always "plead the 5th".)

Welcome back!  Great to see you again!

I think the bigger problem with pardoning Manafort is the optics.  I am sure that no matter how much Trump might want to pardon Manafort, people around him will be pleading for him not to, because it would be political cancer.

The other thing is that Manafort is probably safer in prison than out on the street.  I suspect that's why he didn't take a plea deal in the first place.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 21, 2018, 09:47:31 pm
Yep and of course he promised to "drain the swamp", and "bring in the best people". The courts will likely be busy for some time to come actually draining that swamp.

I can only imagine how excited conservatives and Trump voters were to see all the swamp-draining that happened today!   ;D

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 21, 2018, 10:02:30 pm
I haven't visited the old place to see how the Trumptards there are dealing with today's events, but here is how I imagine they are reacting:

 Crabby old lady #1:  "why is everybody talking about Trump so much? This is Canada. We should focus on Trudeau."

 Crabby old lady #2: "yes, we should talk about Trump less and Trudeau more. Trudeau is quite bad. Why aren't we talking about him instead of Trump?"

 Pastor McFuckface: "Trump NOT CONVICTED of ANYTHING!  TEN counts of MISTRIAL!!! Economy is GOOD!"

Tard-on-Porch: "At least it's not Hillary! The ISLAMS!  Muslim Brotherhood!"

USA-USA: "Associates of Canadian Prime Ministers have been convicted of crimes before. Where is Chuck Guite now?"

Jewish Lawyer: "An American Woman was murdered by an immigrant."

Am I close?

 -k

I haven't visited there in a while either but I'd say you could be pretty close. Especially with USA, I can imagine he is stick handling like crazy these days with his buddy making such a fool of himself.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 21, 2018, 10:22:01 pm
The idea of pardons is that it can serve as a mechanism in cases where the "justice system" has made mistakes, or the particulars of someone's incarceration outweigh the severity of the crime.

Trump is misusing pardons, but he is misusing many of the trappings of his office. The problem is not the pardons, its the man.

Most modern POTUS' have misused pardons then, they pardon hundreds and commute sentences for thousands.  Bill Clinton pardoned his own brother for pete's sake.  No single person who didn't sit in on the trial or weigh all the evidence should be able to overturn a jury/judgement.  That's what appeals should be for, or some kind of judicial review by people trained in law.  It would be better if the POTUS had the power to force a review/appeal if all options are otherwise exhausted.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 22, 2018, 06:14:44 am
The question is whether the republicans would move to do anything... and after November, only the Republican Senate.

Fox News was busy covering puppies yesterday...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 22, 2018, 08:46:47 am
If Manafort gets jail time and Trump pardons him, the protests will be on a scale we've not seen in a generation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 22, 2018, 09:58:15 am
The question is whether the republicans would move to do anything... and after November, only the Republican Senate.

Fox News was busy covering puppies yesterday...

I read that it was wall-to-wall coverage of murdered white college girl Molly Tibbets, with only Bret Baier bothering to actually talk about Manafort and Cohen. Of course that was before the rally and the Carlson/Hannity clown-show. I can only imagine how much wackier things got.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 22, 2018, 10:33:59 am
I read that it was wall-to-wall coverage of murdered white college girl Molly Tibbets...
I never realized the fetishization of murdered white girls was so widespread until I watched Foxnews.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on August 22, 2018, 10:56:54 am
I never realized the fetishization of murdered white girls was so widespread until I watched Foxnews.

I recently came across a book called "Dead Girls: Essays on Surviving America's Obsession" that talks about that particular fetish.  The author made some interesting points, although I didn't finish the book because her writing style did not appeal to me.
https://www.harpercollins.com/9780062657145/dead-girls/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on August 22, 2018, 11:56:47 am
Back to the thread not withstanding Dia's reference to white girls, the issue is Trump and everyone has been predicting this man's fall from the moment he ran for office.

Watching him right now is like watching a slow self destruct. In my life of 62 years I have witnessed the US spend most of its time meticulously manufacturing mythical saviours then crucifying them. Its like a collective mental illness based on the Christian passion play complete with references to God, Satan, etc.

Trump posed himself as Jesus and now has set about to it appears crucify himself in the name of his self proclaimed martyrdom.

He's a narcissist, pathological liar, and clearly has a borderline personality disorder with delusional tendencies, issues with authority, sexuality and this pronounced **** size anxiety to the point he can't go a sentence without mentioning how big (huge) he is. Its not just his ego out of control its his fear of **** size.

It is that simple an analysis. He is on a not so slow self destruct routine which appears to be speeding up as each week the number of people he hates multiplies. It started off 1 oor 2, then 5, then 10 now its  getting larger and larger multiplying like cancer.

It's sad to watch the greatest and most important office in the world lowered to such scatological levels by him.

It is a sad spectacle indeed to watch him melt before everyone's eyes.

Another dethroned God, another Wizard of Oz exposed by the Toto of life.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 22, 2018, 01:02:24 pm
I heard an interview this am on CBC radio with a woman who is a part of the Trump 20/20 program which is of course designed to help him win re election. The interviewer of course enumerated all yesterdays convictions of Manafort and confessions by Cohen. The woman countered with what were rather obvious attempts to deflect, but they were well spoken and I imagine easy to believe if you happen to be a Trump supporter and don't want to see walls come tumbling down. I imagine that the people who would buy that are the same types who would say oh well it snowed somewhere yesterday so therefore global warming can't be happening. All in all a bit unnerving.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 22, 2018, 01:17:15 pm
I heard an interview this am on CBC radio with a woman who is a part of the Trump 20/20 program which is of course designed to help him win re election. The interviewer of course enumerated all yesterdays convictions of Manafort and confessions by Cohen. The woman countered with what were rather obvious attempts to deflect, but they were well spoken and I imagine easy to believe if you happen to be a Trump supporter and don't want to see walls come tumbling down.
Yes, Trump supporters are a lost cause, religiously sticking by their guy regardless of the broken promises, lies, an scandals. They are lost in their racism and "alternative facts".

Fortunately, Trump's core vote probably isn't enough for him to win again, and its likely many/most independents are less likely to be suckered in by Trump's promises a second time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 22, 2018, 01:30:35 pm
Yes, Trump supporters are a lost cause, religiously sticking by their guy regardless of the broken promises, lies, an scandals. They are lost in their racism and "alternative facts".

Fortunately, Trump's core vote probably isn't enough for him to win again, and its likely many/most independents are less likely to be suckered in by Trump's promises a second time.

You can tell Trump is running scared as he now admits he made the payments to silence his **** stars as to their relationships in order to counter the comments from Cohen that he was directed by Trump to make the payments and that the money didn't come from campaign funds. I'm wondering if as evidence is revealed Trump may go down the road of stepping down with a deal between he and Pence for him to provide a pardon for Trump. Kinky shyte eh!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 22, 2018, 02:06:38 pm
I just listened to the WH press briefing and I wonder why they even bother having it. When Sarah Sanders can't duck or dodge a question, she simply lies through her teeth, which is most of the time. I wonder if she understands how she has destroyed her credibility, if she ever had any.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on August 22, 2018, 02:50:10 pm
Fortunately, Trump's core vote probably isn't enough for him to win again, and its likely many/most independents are less likely to be suckered in by Trump's promises a second time.
It really depends on what the alternatives are. A hard left candidate that abandons the center in order to placate the extremist idiots on the left will leave many with the choice of staying home or voting for Trump. We need the center back. Unfortunately, moderate does not sell in our brave new world.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 22, 2018, 03:00:50 pm
It really depends on what the alternatives are. A hard left candidate that abandons the center in order to placate the extremist idiots on the left will leave many with the choice of staying home or voting for Trump. We need the center back. Unfortunately, moderate does not sell in our brave new world.

"Extremist idiots on the left" what a feeble attempt at obfuscation. Or do you think perhaps that Obama was an extremist idiot? Donald Trump is the extremist idiot the US needs to deal with, but many his supporters try endlessly to paper over it, such as you seem to be trying.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 22, 2018, 06:54:47 pm
After what came down yesterday from the courts, and if the GOP loses the house in November, Trump could well find himself heading down the same path to impeachment as did Clinton. And then Trump has to worry about indictments after he leaves office. I wonder if Malania has her divorce file ready to go.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on August 22, 2018, 07:53:33 pm
After what came down yesterday from the courts, and if the GOP loses the house in November, Trump could well find himself heading down the same path to impeachment as did Clinton.
And like Clinton his base will ignore his malfeasance and the 2/3 vote in the senate will never happen. We are most likely stuck with Trump until 2024 because the left is still in denial about why Trump was elected in the first place. A little hint: calling anyone who does not vote for you a racist is not likely to convince them to vote for you. I think that if Clinton had not made the "deplorables" comment she would likely be president today.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 22, 2018, 08:07:50 pm
And like Clinton his base will ignore his malfeasance and the 2/3 vote in the senate will never happen. We are most likely stuck with Trump until 2024 because the left is still in denial about why Trump was elected in the first place. A little hint: calling anyone who does not vote for you a racist is not likely to convince them to vote for you. I think that if Clinton had not made the "deplorables" comment she would likely be president today.

What Clinton did to get impeached was not an indictable offense. What Trump is accused of is, and the court is still out on whether or not a sitting POTUS can be indicted.  And yes while the 2/3 vote in the senate is unlikely, he may want to avoid indictment when he does leave office by stepping aside so Pence can pardon him. He must be nervous after what came out yesterday re: Cohen and Manafort.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 22, 2018, 08:10:00 pm
It really depends on what the alternatives are. A hard left candidate that abandons the center in order to placate the extremist idiots on the left will leave many with the choice of staying home or voting for Trump. We need the center back. Unfortunately, moderate does not sell in our brave new world.

Why do we think that voters who picked Trump would reject a hard left candidate ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on August 22, 2018, 08:17:19 pm
Why do we think that voters who picked Trump would reject a hard left candidate?
Identity politics. Immigration. Politicians who seek to scapegoat a large segment of the population will find that population is not keen to vote for them. In US presidential elections targeting blocks of voters that live in large urban areas at the expense of votes in less urbanized areas is a recipe for failure. The democrats lost in 2016 because of this and will likely lose in 2020 because of it. Democrats need a message that is more than "ignore that we hate you (white rural and religious voters), vote for us because Trump is bad".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 22, 2018, 08:26:21 pm
Identity politics. Immigration. Politicians who seek to scapegoat a large segment of the population will find that population is not keen to vote for them. In US presidential elections targeting blocks of voters that live in large urban areas at the expense of votes in less urbanized areas is a recipe for failure. The democrats lost in 2016 because of this and will likely lose in 2020 because of it. Democrats need a message that is more than "ignore that we hate you (white rural and religious voters), vote for us because Trump is bad".

Actually it was the "country bumpkins" who elected Trump. Is that any surprise?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 22, 2018, 08:54:40 pm
Identity politics. Immigration. Politicians who seek to scapegoat a large segment of the population will find that population is not keen to vote for them. In US presidential elections targeting blocks of voters that live in large urban areas at the expense of votes in less urbanized areas is a recipe for failure. The democrats lost in 2016 because of this and will likely lose in 2020 because of it. Democrats need a message that is more than "ignore that we hate you (white rural and religious voters), vote for us because Trump is bad".
The anti-globalist sentiment is an anti-capitalist one.  People on the other board who like Trump are articulating a hard-left economic ethos.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on August 22, 2018, 10:02:36 pm
The anti-globalist sentiment is an anti-capitalist one.  People on the other board who like Trump are articulating a hard-left economic ethos.
Anti-globalist is not the same as anti-capitalist. Trump's supporters believe capitalism is the way to go. They just think the US is being screwed by the current international trade rules (i.e. the ones design to prevent big powers from bullying smaller power in to accepting unfair trade relationships). You won't find any Trump supporters getting behind government nationalization of any industry. OTOH, government nationalization is often seen a solution to many on the left.




Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 22, 2018, 10:04:12 pm
If the democrats and authorities have a good case ready to go, the only thing stopping Trump from impeachment proceedings is the GOP-controlled Congress and this fall's election.  Could be the most important midterm elections in a long time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 22, 2018, 10:15:38 pm
If the democrats and authorities have a good case ready to go, the only thing stopping Trump from impeachment proceedings is the GOP-controlled Congress and this fall's election.  Could be the most important midterm elections in a long time.

Cohen handed them a good case yesterday.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 23, 2018, 05:45:15 am
1. Anti-globalist is not the same as anti-capitalist.
2. Trump's supporters believe capitalism is the way to go. They just think the US is being screwed by the current international trade rules (i.e. the ones design to prevent big powers from bullying smaller power in to accepting unfair trade relationships).
3. You won't find any Trump supporters getting behind government nationalization of any industry. OTOH, government nationalization is often seen a solution to many on the left.
1. They are pretty close.
2. They believe in small business but are suspicious of big corporations especially the giant tech companies that are dominating.
3. Yeah but... that is far left.  Even the NDP doesn't really suggest it except in the case of auto insurance sometimes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on August 23, 2018, 07:30:21 am
3. Yeah but... that is far left.  Even the NDP doesn't really suggest it except in the case of auto insurance sometimes.
Ask an NDP supporter if it the world be better if the government nationalized the oil industry. Now ask a Trump supporter. Do you really think they would give the same answer on average? That is why anti-globalist has nothing to do with anti-capitalist.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 23, 2018, 10:13:29 am
And like Clinton his base will ignore his malfeasance and the 2/3 vote in the senate will never happen. We are most likely stuck with Trump until 2024 because the left is still in denial about why Trump was elected in the first place. A little hint: calling anyone who does not vote for you a racist is not likely to convince them to vote for you. I think that if Clinton had not made the "deplorables" comment she would likely be president today.
Like Clinton? Really? Bloody hell, man. You're really going to compare what Clinton did to what Trump did, as if people's reactions to those things can be compared?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 23, 2018, 11:50:34 am
Just caught a quick bit from CNN that the WH is denying it has a plan to use federal money to purchase guns for schools. No details given but it twigged my memory about previous discussions about the idea of teachers packing guns but also that I recall hearing the NRA was in financial trouble. Trump being a good buddy of Wayne LaPierre and supporter of the NRA, do I see yet another scandal brewing? We shall see if this has any legs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 23, 2018, 12:01:06 pm
SPOILERS: It doesn't.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 23, 2018, 12:19:01 pm
Congress did pass a bill not long ago providing $50 million to local school districts to enhance school safety but it specifically did not allow for firearms. Lets hope congress "sticks to it's guns" so to speak.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 23, 2018, 12:42:47 pm
Now Sessions is fighting back against Trump and David Pecker has been granted immunity so he is about to flip so we'll get more info on the **** star payments for one thing. The soap opera carries on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on August 23, 2018, 02:06:57 pm
You're really going to compare what Clinton did to what Trump did, as if people's reactions to those things can be compared?
Clinton was accused of sexually assaulting one woman and abusing his position with another. Democratic partisans twisted themselves into knots trying convince themselves that the offenses were no big deal. Trump is accused of paying women he had affairs with for silence during a campaign and violating campaign finance laws. There is no way republicans would impeach for that. Their base would not stand for it. The same logic applies for any, inevitably complex and convoluted, charges that might appear related to being a Russian puppet.

Remember that in the states politicians are first accountable to their donors , then to their base which could dump them in a primary fight and finally to the actual voters. In places with extreme gerrymandering the actual voters are irrelevant. So it really makes no difference how many people are disgusted with Trump. He will not be impeached unless he pisses off the GOP base (i.e. the evangelicals might decide that since they got the SCOTUS they don't need the scumbag any more and would be happier with President Pence).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 23, 2018, 02:12:26 pm
Clinton was accused of sexually assault one woman and abusing his position with another. Democratic partisans twisted themselves into knots trying convince themselves that the offenses were no big deal. Trump is accused of paying women he had affairs with for silence during a campaign and violating campaign finance laws. There is no way republicans would impeach for that. Their base would not stand for it. The same logic applies for any, inevitably complex and convoluted, charges that might appear related to being a Russian puppet.

Remember that in the states politicians are first accountable to their donors , then to their base which could dump them in a primary fight and finally to the actual voters. In places with extreme gerrymandering the actual voters are irrelevant. So it really makes no difference how many people are disgusted with Trump. He will not be impeached unless he pisses off the GOP base (i.e. the evangelicals might decide that since they got the SCOTUS they don't need the scumbag any more and would be happier with President Pence).

Perhaps you don't understand how impeachment works. If the Dems. take control of the house in November in all likelihood he will be impeached. After that it is up to the senate to convict, which is unlikely because the not enough GOP senators will challenge their base by voting to convict, regardless of the overwhelming evidence of Trump's misdoings.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 23, 2018, 08:21:17 pm
Why yhr **** did Chris Cuomo bring Kelly Anne on his show? A complete and utter waste of time because, as expected flappy **** can't stop telling her screed so filled with bull **** long enough to actually answer a question. A complete joke and waste of time. Why waste your time Mario?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 23, 2018, 11:23:33 pm
Ask an NDP supporter if it the world be better if the government nationalized the oil industry. Now ask a Trump supporter. Do you really think they would give the same answer on average? That is why anti-globalist has nothing to do with anti-capitalist.

On average I suspect both would say no.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 24, 2018, 06:48:56 am
Clinton was accused of sexually assaulting one woman and abusing his position with another.
Clinton was not convicted of sexually assaulting Paula Jones because her stories were full of lies that were exposed by witnesses at trial. Secondly, he didn't "abuse his position" with Monica Lewinski. He had a consensual affair with her. She has repeatedly said in the media that she consented to their relationship.

Clinton was impeached for trying to hide his affair with Lewinski during questioning about Jones, thereby lying under oath. He wasn't even impeached for the affair or "abusing his position" as you claim.

All of this pales in comparison to the criminal enterprise of the Trump campaign being aided by an enemy of the United States.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 24, 2018, 07:30:17 am
Clinton was not convicted of sexually assaulting Paula Jones because her stories were full of lies that were exposed by witnesses at trial. Secondly, he didn't "abuse his position" with Monica Lewinski. He had a consensual affair with her. She has repeatedly said in the media that she consented to their relationship.

Things have changed though and boss/subordinate affairs are no longer acceptable nor should they have been at that time.  It's too susceptible to abuse due to the power imbalance.

Quote
Clinton was impeached for trying to hide his affair with Lewinski during questioning about Jones, thereby lying under oath. He wasn't even impeached for the affair or "abusing his position" as you claim.

All of this pales in comparison to the criminal enterprise of the Trump campaign being aided by an enemy of the United States.

Yes, assuming it's found to be true.  He could be a dupe.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 24, 2018, 09:55:13 am


All of this pales in comparison to the criminal enterprise of the Trump campaign being aided by an enemy of the United States.
Not to mention that Trump also has dozens of accusers in a wide range of sexual assaults and was even caught on tape bragging about them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 24, 2018, 11:13:06 am
It's no wonder Trump says that "flippers" should be outlawed. It seems lately just about every day there's another flipper. Today it's his former CFO Weissellberg getting immunity and I imagine he has some stories to tell.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 24, 2018, 12:45:34 pm
And the latest: Trump has told Pompeo not to go to North Korea as had been scheduled because the denuke plan is not proceeding quite as well as hoped. Now who the hell could have seen that coming?!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 24, 2018, 05:32:04 pm
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/the-end-of-trumps-reign/568480/

Quote
How This Will End

The normal course of events is sudden, epic desertion, in which an all-powerful political figure who loomed over everything is suddenly left shrunken and pitiful, a wretched little figure in gaudy robes absurdly too big for him, a figure of ridicule as much as, and even more than, hatred.

This is going to happen to Trump at some point.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 24, 2018, 08:28:39 pm
Trump goes to Ohio to give a campaign speech which lived up to room temperature IQ caliber blather we are all accustomed to, blabs out his "Pocohantis" reference once again, but doesn't bother to say one word about John McCann who has announced he has given up treatment. So not only does he once again display a lack of intellect, but also a lack of human decency.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 25, 2018, 08:14:35 am
https://nypost.com/2018/08/24/qanon-conspiracy-theorist-meets-trump-at-white-house/

He had another Alex Jones-type conspiracy guy, a radio host, to the white house.  This one promotes QAnon which means Trump is furthering the Pizzagate idea even more.  Now let me check his tweets.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 25, 2018, 11:06:28 am
Things have changed though and boss/subordinate affairs are no longer acceptable nor should they have been at that time.  It's too susceptible to abuse due to the power imbalance.

Yes, assuming it's found to be true.  He could be a dupe.
It was consensual. The key to all of the problems today is consent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on August 25, 2018, 11:07:38 am
Not to mention that Trump also has dozens of accusers in a wide range of sexual assaults and was even caught on tape bragging about them.
It's unbelievable that we're even talking about Clinton. Trump paid off a god damned **** star....quite possibly the only person he hired who was qualified for their job.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 25, 2018, 04:26:48 pm
It was consensual. The key to all of the problems today is consent.

Not true.  Patrick Brown's problems were entirely tied to STAFFERS.  Consent was never questioned as far as I remember.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 26, 2018, 10:54:53 am
Trump invited one of the reps from the conspiracy retard group Qanon to the oval office. To see how **** up that is look at the video I posted under the 'fun video' section.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/25/politics/donald-trump-qanon-white-house/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 26, 2018, 12:04:43 pm
Not true.  Patrick Brown's problems were entirely tied to STAFFERS.  Consent was never questioned as far as I remember.


I think the narrative regarding Monica Lewinsky would be a lot different if today's standards existed 20 years ago.

Today it would be seen as a powerful man sexually exploiting an underling, where as 20 years ago the overwhelmingly popular reaction was to mock Monica for not being thin.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 26, 2018, 12:28:01 pm
Kelli Ward, a **** Trumptard and one of 3 contenders to replace Jeff Flake as Arizona's Republican senate nominee, believes that John McCain died to damage her campaign.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/08/kelli-ward-suggested-mccain-tried-to-hurt-her-campaign-with-health-announcement.html

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 26, 2018, 12:29:33 pm

I think the narrative regarding Monica Lewinsky would be a lot different if today's standards existed 20 years ago.

Today it would be seen as a powerful man sexually exploiting an underling, where as 20 years ago the overwhelmingly popular reaction was to mock Monica for not being thin.

 -k

The so called "narrative" would not (and should not) likely have affected the vote to impeach. Lying under oath was pretty much the same then as it is now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 26, 2018, 12:43:26 pm
I wonder if, and I certainly hope that, Donald will be able to dredge up at least enough good grace not to have another temper tantrum and tweet out a bunch of rage over MCCain expressing he didn't want Donald Trump at his funeral. Ya never know with this creep. Maybe Malania will pry his fingers away from his keyboard for a few days.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 27, 2018, 01:15:01 pm
Well I guess that answers my question, Trump has the flag at both the WH and the Capitol back at full staff, and has remained totally silent as to any words of tribute for McCain. A complete and utter narcissistic ****.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 27, 2018, 02:35:44 pm
Well I guess that answers my question, Trump has the flag at both the WH and the Capitol back at full staff, and has remained totally silent as to any words of tribute for McCain. A complete and utter narcissistic ****.

This is supposed to be new?

And pardon me if I don't jump on the weeping and wailing over the death of McCain. As far as I'm concerned he trashed his legacy when he invited that brainless airhead Sarah Palin onto the ticket and opened up the Republican party 'mainstream' to the idea brainless ideological loonies like her should be respected.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 27, 2018, 03:06:10 pm
Well I guess that answers my question, Trump has the flag at both the WH and the Capitol back at full staff, and has remained totally silent as to any words of tribute for McCain. A complete and utter narcissistic ****.

Ivanka writes nice comments about McCain, and flag is back at half mast. Trump of course looks like a bigger ahole.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 27, 2018, 03:08:42 pm
This is supposed to be new?

And pardon me if I don't jump on the weeping and wailing over the death of McCain. As far as I'm concerned he trashed his legacy when he invited that brainless airhead Sarah Palin onto the ticket and opened up the Republican party 'mainstream' to the idea brainless ideological loonies like her should be respected.

Even though her character seems to fits well in the Republican party? I suspect you're too busy weeping and wailing over what's happening to the Conservative party here.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 27, 2018, 03:19:46 pm
Ivanka writes nice comments about McCain, and flag is back at half mast. Trump of course looks like a bigger ahole.

Talk about making himself look ever more like a bull in a china shop! Who do you suppose twisted his arm?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 27, 2018, 11:38:35 pm
This is supposed to be new?

And pardon me if I don't jump on the weeping and wailing over the death of McCain. As far as I'm concerned he trashed his legacy when he invited that brainless airhead Sarah Palin onto the ticket and opened up the Republican party 'mainstream' to the idea brainless ideological loonies like her should be respected.

I'm not convinced that putting Palin on the ticket in 2008 was what caused the Republican descent into madness. She appealed to an element that already existed.  Following the 2008 election, the rise of the Tea Party movement was fueled by to some degree a grassroots disdain for "the establishment", which was seized upon by people like the Koch brothers and others who cynically exploited it to reshape the party.  Palin was one of those who jumped on the bandwagon, along with others like Ted Cruz, along with media people like Glenn Beck and Douche Dimbaugh.

Palin wasn't even McCain's idea... he was talked into it by strategists like Steve Schmidt who were convinced that McCain needed some "pizzazz" to counter Obama's charisma.  Choosing Palin was a cynical attempt to appeal to disenchanted Hillary supporters.  McCain has said that choosing Palin was the biggest mistake of his career.  (I've said it before, but will mention it again... watch the HBO movie "Game Change", with Julianne Moore as Palin, Ed Harris as McCain, and Woody Harrelson as Schmidt. Really an outstanding movie.)

I think it speaks volumes that McCain's former opponents, Obama and George W. Bush, will be speaking at his funeral.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 28, 2018, 06:34:59 am
This is supposed to be new?

And pardon me if I don't jump on the weeping and wailing over the death of McCain. 

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/08/mccain

A non-fawning overview of his life.  Liberals are gushing about him because, apparently, he defended Obama once from someone who name-called him and he scuttled one of Trump's healthcare votes.  Pretty low bar IMO.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 28, 2018, 06:38:28 am
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-28/trump-accuses-google-of-rigging-search-results-against-him

Now he is Tweeting that Google is rigging news results against him.  I really doubt that, although it's technically possible.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on August 28, 2018, 11:10:30 am
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/08/mccain

A non-fawning overview of his life.  Liberals are gushing about him because, apparently, he defended Obama once from someone who name-called him and he scuttled one of Trump's healthcare votes.  Pretty low bar IMO.

They apparently quickly forgot that in the run-up to the election, not only did McCain support not giving a hearing to the Democratic nominee for the supreme court vacancy, but suggested that if Hillary Clinton were to win the Republicans would block all hearings for the entirety of her term in office.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 28, 2018, 11:27:18 am
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-28/trump-accuses-google-of-rigging-search-results-against-him

Now he is Tweeting that Google is rigging news results against him.  I really doubt that, although it's technically possible.

Trump will be whinging about his so called "fake news" as long as he has been over having lost the popular vote to Hillary in 2016. You'd think he has enough issues to deal with without creating new ones. This one is probably an attempt to get the discussion away from McCain.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 28, 2018, 01:35:32 pm
Interesting how Trump remarked about Black football players who took an knee during the national anthem to protest racial inequality, by calling them "sons o' ****" that should be removed from the field, in part because that was disrespectful of soldiers who fought for the flag.  And then he takes a knee by his handling of the flags on the WH and Capitol to disrespect John McCain who actually did fight for the flag, instead of faking "bone spur" bullshit as Trump did to remain at home. Funk and Wagnalls should post a picture of Trump under the word hypocrite. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 28, 2018, 04:33:10 pm
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-28/trump-accuses-google-of-rigging-search-results-against-him

Now he is Tweeting that Google is rigging news results against him.  I really doubt that, although it's technically possible.
Rather notable that Trump and the republicans (who seemed to have made deregulation and "freedom" a central focus of their politics) all of a sudden want the government (as directed by the Trump administration) to step in and regulate what Google does.

(Not that there wasn't plenty of evidence of the republicans being hypocrites before...)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 29, 2018, 12:12:37 am
Kelli Ward, a **** Trumptard and one of 3 contenders to replace Jeff Flake as Arizona's Republican senate nominee, believes that John McCain died to damage her campaign.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/08/kelli-ward-suggested-mccain-tried-to-hurt-her-campaign-with-health-announcement.html

Kelli Ward is a "chem-trail" true-believer and **** Trump booster and Tea Partyist who campaigned with alt-right troll and **** conspiritard Michael Cernovich.

Joe Arpaio is a vaguely human-shaped sack of dog-**** who should still be in jail.

Martha McSally is a retired Air Force Colonel, a 22 year military veteran, the first woman to fly a fighter plane in combat, the first woman to command a fighter squadron. She flew an A-10 "Warthog" in the Kuwait war and commanded an A-10 squadron in Afghanistan, and is currently in the House of Representatives. In November she will have a chance to become the first female senator from Arizona, after handily beating both Ward and Arpaio for the Republican senate nomination to replace retiring senator Jeff Flake.


On the bright side, this seems like a victory of common sense over far-right extremism.  On the down side, I was kind of hoping Kelli Ward or Scumbag Joe would win because it would have given Democrat candidate Kyrsten Sinema a stronger chance of victory.  Like McSally, Sinema is currently representing Arizona in the House of Representatives, and is considered to have a strong chance of winning the seat.  Republican strategists believed that if Ward or Arpaio won the nomination, Sinema would win easily. They believed that McSally is the only candidate who can beat Sinema in the general election.  Some believe that Arpaio was conned into running as a way of splitting the **** right-wing votes away from Ward to ensure McSally's victory.  As it turned out, McSally won 51% of the vote, so she could have done it without Scumbag Joe's help.

If the Democrats want to retake the Senate, Jeff Flake's seat is probably their best chance of flipping a seat, so Sinema vs McSally will probably be one of the most crucial elections in November.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 29, 2018, 06:26:15 am
Snopes on Arpaio:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/joe-arpaio-misdeeds/

I post this because I saw some memes with awful things on them,  which are mostly not true.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 29, 2018, 02:43:27 pm
Snopes on Arpaio:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/joe-arpaio-misdeeds/

I post this because I saw some memes with awful things on them,  which are mostly not true.

I think Kimmy's description of Arpaio is fairly accurate but of course is only exceeded by his buddy Trump. I just heard Trump taking questions from reporters at the WH. "We have GREAT relations with China, we have GREAT relations with kim, we also have to go after fake news people like twitter and google that spread bad things about me" and on and on. I haven't seen or smelled such a stinky load of **** since I suffered amoebic dysentery in Iraq. And he still holds onto support from his "base".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 30, 2018, 10:14:59 am
"Watched some of sad, low-energy @SenJohnMcCain funeral. Had to change channel because it was very boring.  Ratings would have been much higher if very great POTUS45 had been invited!!!"


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 30, 2018, 11:20:16 am
Yes I'm sure he would have managed to stumble around in a daze and cut in front of Mrs. McCain as he did to the queen. And of course pull her off her feet with one of his crazy handshakes. Funerals need more slapstick.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 30, 2018, 11:29:58 am
"Watched some of sad, low-energy @SenJohnMcCain funeral. Had to change channel because it was very boring.  Ratings would have been much higher if very great POTUS45 had been invited!!!"

 -k
I think it says so much about the quality of Trump when I see a post like that and actually think "Should I check to see if its actually true?" rather than just assume its a humorous post.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 30, 2018, 01:03:46 pm
Kelli Ward is a "chem-trail" true-believer and **** Trump booster and Tea Partyist who campaigned with alt-right troll and **** conspiritard Michael Cernovich.

Joe Arpaio is a vaguely human-shaped sack of dog-**** who should still be in jail.

Martha McSally is a retired Air Force Colonel, a 22 year military veteran, the first woman to fly a fighter plane in combat, the first woman to command a fighter squadron. She flew an A-10 "Warthog" in the Kuwait war and commanded an A-10 squadron in Afghanistan, and is currently in the House of Representatives. In November she will have a chance to become the first female senator from Arizona, after handily beating both Ward and Arpaio for the Republican senate nomination to replace retiring senator Jeff Flake.


On the bright side, this seems like a victory of common sense over far-right extremism.  On the down side, I was kind of hoping Kelli Ward or Scumbag Joe would win because it would have given Democrat candidate Kyrsten Sinema a stronger chance of victory.  Like McSally, Sinema is currently representing Arizona in the House of Representatives, and is considered to have a strong chance of winning the seat.  Republican strategists believed that if Ward or Arpaio won the nomination, Sinema would win easily. They believed that McSally is the only candidate who can beat Sinema in the general election.  Some believe that Arpaio was conned into running as a way of splitting the **** right-wing votes away from Ward to ensure McSally's victory.  As it turned out, McSally won 51% of the vote, so she could have done it without Scumbag Joe's help.

If the Democrats want to retake the Senate, Jeff Flake's seat is probably their best chance of flipping a seat, so Sinema vs McSally will probably be one of the most crucial elections in November.

 -k

On a more optimistic side, if she does win, hopefully McSally's background give's her a view of the world more in line with McCain than Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on August 30, 2018, 02:04:25 pm
I think it says so much about the quality of Trump when I see a post like that and actually think "Should I check to see if its actually true?" rather than just assume its a humorous post.

Me too!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 30, 2018, 02:10:32 pm
You wonder how much of McCain's desire not to have Trump at his funeral was based on his animosity towards Trump and how much was his knowledge that Trump would make it all about himself.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 30, 2018, 05:53:39 pm
Trump's continuing attacks against the msm "the enemy of the people" etc., are starting to have the effect I'm sure he was hoping for.

 https://www.pressherald.com/2018/08/30/man-charged-with-threatening-to-kill-boston-globe-journalists/

A California man upset about The Boston Globe’s coordinated editorial response to President Trump’s attacks on the news media was arrested Thursday on a charge of threatening to travel to the newspaper’s offices and kill journalists, whom he called the “enemy of the people,” federal prosecutors said.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 30, 2018, 09:34:53 pm
You wonder how much of McCain's desire not to have Trump at his funeral was based on his animosity towards Trump and how much was his knowledge that Trump would make it all about himself.

I think a high degree of both.  I read earlier this week that Trump's demand that the White House flag be raised again was because he was mad that McCain's death was getting so much coverage. His super-fragile ego requires he be the center of attention all the time.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 30, 2018, 09:37:46 pm
Heaven forbid Donald finds Melania watching the funeral coverage on CNN!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 01, 2018, 12:37:33 pm
Hard not to notice that both Obama and Bush as well as McCains daughter couldn't totally avoid taking swipes at Trump during their eulogy's. Some subtle, some not so much. Obama saying words to the effect that "we are not American's because of who are parents are or what our last name is" with regard to Trump's birther crap. Meanwhile Trump was on the golf course tweeting crap about NAFTA and the Russian "witch hunt". He has a lot of class, all third of course.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 01, 2018, 02:21:33 pm
Hard not to notice that both Obama and Bush as well as McCains daughter couldn't totally avoid taking swipes at Trump during their eulogy's.

They took swipes at the low life rhetoric that others spread, none of them mentioned Trump. Just because Trump fits that mold is not their fault.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 01, 2018, 02:27:25 pm
They took swipes at the low life rhetoric that others spread, none of them mentioned Trump. Just because Trump fits that mold is not their fault.

I wasn't suggesting it was their "fault". And it's quite simple to figure out why they didn't need to mention what's his name.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 03, 2018, 07:55:57 pm
I have to doff my hat to the father of Mollie Tibbet's father who even through his suffering the loss of his daughter, asked politicians (Trump's name comes to mind) not to use the fact the alleged killer was an undocumented immigrant, which emphasized his daughters stance against racism. Trump, and of course those with similar racist, xenophobic thoughts will of course flog this for everything they think they can get out of it, regardless of the fathers wishes to show respect.

The father of Mollie Tibbetts, an Iowa college student whose body was found last month, has called on others to not “callously distort and corrupt” her death to promote a political agenda, a day after President Trump’s eldest son blamed Democrats for her death.

he Register on Friday published a column by the president’s eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., in which he blamed Democrats for Ms. Tibbetts’s death and said claims that conservatives and Republicans were politicizing her death were “absurd.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/02/us/mollie-tibbetts-father-trump.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 04, 2018, 11:33:44 am
Looking forward, (in a way) to getting my hands on Bob Woodward's new book about "crazy town" in the Trump White House. I say "in a way" because some of what I'm hearing is in there could be damned scary.

 President Donald Trump's closest aides have taken extraordinary measures in the White House to try to stop what they saw as his most dangerous impulses, going so far as to swipe and hide papers from his desk so he wouldn't sign them, according to a new book from legendary journalist Bob Woodward.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/04/politics/bob-woodward-book-donald-trump-fear/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on September 04, 2018, 12:46:08 pm
https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1037009182015336448

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1037006180374245377

Jesus **** Christ

And Conservatives have the audacity to blame Trudeau for the current state of NAFTA negotiations?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 04, 2018, 05:02:22 pm
https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1037009182015336448

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1037006180374245377

Jesus **** Christ

And Conservatives have the audacity to blame Trudeau for the current state of NAFTA negotiations?

If this book is even close to being true I can see were trying to deal with the Donald must be like trying to get along with the brain dead bully in the sandbox. One issue I found interesting/disturbing is that Trump's legal team at one point sat down with Mueller and claimed they weren't going to let their client sit down for an interview because they didn't feel he would be unable not to perjure himself, and he didn't want the political fallout with having to take the fifth. So much for the rule of law under this POTUS I guess.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 04, 2018, 05:19:24 pm
The system was not built in anticipation of media "personalities"... capturing the imaginations of the masses and using name recognition to get elected.  It didn't anticipate our world.

So now, it's being challenged.  It needs to adapt or die.  The thing is... there is something to the populism, as revolting as their morality and their leader is.  There's a void out there that can't be denied.  Even if it is a constructed lie... that America isn't "great"... or whatever the system can't absorb this situation.

Adapt or die.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 04, 2018, 05:57:41 pm
https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1037009182015336448

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1037006180374245377

Jesus **** Christ

And Conservatives have the audacity to blame Trudeau for the current state of NAFTA negotiations?

Conservatives, such as myself, wanted to cut a fast deal with the Americans early on and not bring in **** about climate change and gender equality because we feared becoming the target of the ignorant, incoherent rage of this moron.

Now we don't yet know if the failure to get an early signing was due to things like this, or the Liberals' determination not to abandon Mexico (which seems to have abandoned us) or what. Eventually it will come out.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 04, 2018, 06:02:55 pm
So now, it's being challenged.  It needs to adapt or die.  The thing is... there is something to the populism, as revolting as their morality and their leader is.  There's a void out there that can't be denied.  Even if it is a constructed lie... that America isn't "great"... or whatever the system can't absorb this situation.

I was watching a group discussing populism in Europe last night. And one of the people involved made the point that populism was not the reason for the problems. It was the problems which are the reason for the success of populism.

Absent the total inability of the political elites to address the growing public perception and problem with immigration, legal and otherwise, Trump would not have won (nor would most of these far right groups be so popular and increasing their popularity in Europe).
Absent the corruption of the political system by money, leading so many to believe they were all on the take (because they are) an 'outsider' would not have been seen as so attractive to so many, and Trump would not have won.
Absent the Democrats identity politics alienating so many white voters, Trump could not have won.

If you don't want populists to succeed, ensure that views are properly represented, aired and responded to, and that those in charge are seen as responsive to the needs and desires of the electorate. If you don't, then the people are going to get restless and start looking around for someone else.



Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 04, 2018, 06:16:51 pm
I was watching a group discussing populism in Europe last night. And one of the people involved made the point that populism was not the reason for the problems. It was the problems which are the reason for the success of populism.

Absent the total inability of the political elites to address the growing public perception and problem with immigration, legal and otherwise, Trump would not have won (nor would most of these far right groups be so popular and increasing their popularity in Europe).
Absent the corruption of the political system by money, leading so many to believe they were all on the take (because they are) an 'outsider' would not have been seen as so attractive to so many, and Trump would not have won.
Absent the Democrats identity politics alienating so many white voters, Trump could not have won.

If you don't want populists to succeed, ensure that views are properly represented, aired and responded to, and that those in charge are seen as responsive to the needs and desires of the electorate. If you don't, then the people are going to get restless and start looking around for someone else.

Trump was able to appease those folks who were whinging over immigration by blathering away about throwing all the Muslim's out of the country, and building a wall and all his other bullshit and so he got 70k votes in 3 states and got elected. After further details of Woodwards book become available I'll bet there will be a lot of people who want to build a wall around Trump. Maybe he will get one of those orange jump suits.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 04, 2018, 06:29:58 pm
Trump was able to appease those folks who were whinging over immigration by blathering away about throwing all the Muslim's out of the country, and building a wall and all his other bullshit and so he got 70k votes in 3 states and got elected. After further details of Woodwards book become available I'll bet there will be a lot of people who want to build a wall around Trump. Maybe he will get one of those orange jump suits.

Given the incredible number of character flaws and the past history of Trump that election should have been a blowout for the Democrats. They should have swept all fifty states. Instead, they lost.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 04, 2018, 06:32:21 pm
Given the incredible number of character flaws and the past history of Trump that election should have been a blowout for the Democrats. They should have swept all fifty states. Instead, they lost.

The dems. did win the popular vote, but Trump is in the WH thanks to the electoral college. They need to dump that nonsense.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 04, 2018, 06:36:51 pm
New media changes how problems are seen and solved.  It also brings the world together through immigration and investment. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 04, 2018, 08:01:20 pm
New media changes how problems are seen and solved.  It also brings the world together through immigration and investment.

The top news story on CNN and most other mainstream media now is the Woodward book.
On FOX it's Nike's deal with Colin Kaepernick, followed by the senate confirmation hearings, tropical storm gordon, and a woman killed by a pit bill.
Over on the side panel there's a video of Newt Gingrich dismissing the Woodward book as 'sad'.

News media no longer brings us together. Instead it gives us completely different information which drive us apart.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 04, 2018, 08:02:40 pm
The dems. did win the popular vote, but Trump is in the WH thanks to the electoral college. They need to dump that nonsense.

Don't give me any crap about winning the popular vote. They should have won by 90%. Trump is by far the worst candidate for president any party has ever fielded in the history of the United States.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 04, 2018, 08:14:47 pm
Don't give me any crap about winning the popular vote. They should have won by 90%. Trump is by far the worst candidate for president any party has ever fielded in the history of the United States.

It's not "crap" actually, it's the truth. But I wonder, have americans gone so far right and become xenophobic they like the anti-immigrant meme, or shall we wait and see what Meuller has to say?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 04, 2018, 09:49:24 pm
The dems. did win the popular vote, but Trump is in the WH thanks to the electoral college. They need to dump that nonsense.

it's a bit weird system, but they vote state by state because that's what the entire country is founded and based on.  The hint is in the name of the country itself.

It's very possible Clinton could have won if it was based on popular vote, but no guarantee.  Trump wouldn't have completely ignored California (a large pop state) and spent all that time in Ohio and Michigan, for instance.  His campaign would have drastically changed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 04, 2018, 09:57:00 pm
it's a bit weird system, but they vote state by state because that's what the entire country is founded and based on.  The hint is in the name of the country itself.

It's very possible Clinton could have won if it was based on popular vote, but no guarantee.  Trump wouldn't have completely ignored California (a large pop state) and spent all that time in Ohio and Michigan, for instance.  His campaign would have drastically changed.

They have states, we have provinces. So what? Hillary did win the pop vote by about 3.5 million which is a fact that still gets Trump's knickers in a knot. I just think the EC was a valid concept when it was created, but the conditions that prompted it no longer exist, and the republicans have very successfully gerrymandered it. Time for an overhaul.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 05, 2018, 07:06:01 am
Conservatives, such as myself, wanted to cut a fast deal with the Americans early on and not bring in **** about climate change and gender equality because we feared becoming the target of the ignorant, incoherent rage of this moron.

Now we don't yet know if the failure to get an early signing was due to things like this, or the Liberals' determination not to abandon Mexico (which seems to have abandoned us) or what. Eventually it will come out.
Conservatives are on the negotiating team. In fact, they were Conservatives that were involved in drafting NAFTA the first time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 05, 2018, 08:17:43 am
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4810059?__twitter_impression=true

Neil McDonald makes a compelling case for IGNORING the president in this editorial.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 05, 2018, 08:29:48 am
He should be ignored. He's a petulant child, who lies and throws tantrums constantly, and NAFTA will require Congress's approval anyway.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 05, 2018, 11:05:47 am
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4810059?__twitter_impression=true

Neil McDonald makes a compelling case for IGNORING the president in this editorial.

Right, and then he throws a temper tantrum and decides to block our oil shipments. What then? Are people not understanding just how stupid and unstable this guy is?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 05, 2018, 11:09:14 am
It's not "crap" actually, it's the truth. But I wonder, have americans gone so far right and become xenophobic they like the anti-immigrant meme, or shall we wait and see what Meuller has to say?

Most Americans remain centrist. But the flow of illegal immigrants has been a constant irritant across party lines for decades. The progressive mantra that anyone who questions immigration is a xenophobe has also proven to be more than slightly off-putting to them.

The Democrats can easily grab back the White house if they try, but it doesn't look like that's on their agenda. Instead of fielding centrist candidates who will grab all the center votes plus the Left they appear determined to march sharply Left and abandon the center.

The next election will be on the Republicans terms. It will be about immigration, where they enjoy the support of huge numbers of centrists, and where they can portray the Democrats shrill identity politics as anti-American, unpatriotic and bordering on anti-white.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 05, 2018, 11:20:31 am
Right, and then he throws a temper tantrum and decides to block our oil shipments. What then? Are people not understanding just how stupid and unstable this guy is?

You are a good thinker but sometimes add Fringe risks to the discussion.  Why not just highlight something realistic like auto tarrifs? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 05, 2018, 11:34:17 am
Most Americans remain centrist. But the flow of illegal immigrants has been a constant irritant across party lines for decades. The progressive mantra that anyone who questions immigration is a xenophobe has also proven to be more than slightly off-putting to them.

The Democrats can easily grab back the White house if they try, but it doesn't look like that's on their agenda. Instead of fielding centrist candidates who will grab all the center votes plus the Left they appear determined to march sharply Left and abandon the center.

The next election will be on the Republicans terms. It will be about immigration, where they enjoy the support of huge numbers of centrists, and where they can portray the Democrats shrill identity politics as anti-American, unpatriotic and bordering on anti-white.

I would hardly call the people who provide their unfailing support for Trump centrists. They are hard core right wing and support "the wall" and anti immigration policies like "throw all the Muslims out" etc. However polls show a majority still favor immigration as strongly as ever.

“Americans’ strong belief that immigration is a good thing for the country and that immigration levels shouldn’t be decreased present the president and Congress with some tough decisions as the midterm elections loom,” Gallup said in a news release Thursday.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/23/us/immigration-polls-donald-trump.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 05, 2018, 11:45:47 am
You are a good thinker but sometimes add Fringe risks to the discussion.  Why not just highlight something realistic like auto tarrifs?

Because Trump is a big hammer thinker. His responses are crude and absolutist. If the Woodward excerpts tell us anything it's that Trump doesn't think about anything but winning, and doesn't care who that hurts. The US is self-sufficient in oil and natural gas now. It doesn't need our oil. Threatening us with an oil shutoff should be fairly obvious to him, or would be the instant someone suggests it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 05, 2018, 11:57:02 am
I would hardly call the people who provide their unfailing support for Trump centrists.

Nor would I, but that's not what I said. The center votes over a variety of factors. Had the Democrats had a more attractive candidate and more attractive policies they'd have taken all the center. They didn't. Nor does it appear they have learned a single thing from their mistake last time around.

Quote
However polls show a majority still favor immigration as strongly as ever.

That depends on what kind of immigration, and even on the questions asked. Americans remain very concerned with illegal immigration, and aren't thrilled with family immigration either. Further, this is a more emotional issue to a lot of people who want to 'protect the borders' than it is to the majority of those who are more pro immigration. Which means it's more likely to influence their votes. As David Frum said "If Liberals say only fascists will protect the borders, the voters will hire fascists to protect the borders."

https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/580037717/what-the-latest-immigration-polls-do-and-dont-say
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 05, 2018, 04:23:54 pm
Trump blows a gasket in the east room after reading the anonymous op-ed published in the NYT today. He more or less did exactly what the page and the Woodward book accuse him of. Can't wait to hear who actually wrote this since it is apparently in insider.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 05, 2018, 04:38:22 pm
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4810059?__twitter_impression=true

Neil McDonald makes a compelling case for IGNORING the president in this editorial.

You can ignore his promises/lies and rhetoric, but you can't ignore him, he's the POTUS.  It's like negotiating with a slimy car salesman, you can't believe anything he's says, only what's in the contract.  If I were Trudeau I wouldn't sign any deal that went beyond the end of his first term, maybe with a clause that if he's reelected the deal will continue until the end of his 2nd term.  Just get the best deal you possibly can and wait for the next POTUS so we can get a better deal.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 05, 2018, 04:46:43 pm
I would hardly call the people who provide their unfailing support for Trump centrists. They are hard core right wing and support "the wall" and anti immigration policies like "throw all the Muslims out" etc. However polls show a majority still favor immigration as strongly as ever.

But most Americans don't support Trump.

Quote
“Americans’ strong belief that immigration is a good thing for the country and that immigration levels shouldn’t be decreased present the president and Congress with some tough decisions as the midterm elections loom,” Gallup said in a news release Thursday.

Being "anti-immigrant" is a pretty broad, imprecise term, it means you disagree with any immigration, and so can often be used as a strawman.  Virtually everyone is somewhere between "i dislike all immigration" and "i support open borders".  You can be for decreasing illegal immigration and for maintaining legal immigration at the same time, which i think is where most Americans and most sane people are at.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 05, 2018, 06:54:12 pm
But most Americans don't support Trump.

Being "anti-immigrant" is a pretty broad, imprecise term, it means you disagree with any immigration, and so can often be used as a strawman.  Virtually everyone is somewhere between "i dislike all immigration" and "i support open borders".  You can be for decreasing illegal immigration and for maintaining legal immigration at the same time, which i think is where most Americans and most sane people are at.

You're correct, most Americans don't support Trump, as I was pointing out.

And yes, I suspect most people do support maintaining legal immigration since it's pretty what built their country, and ours.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 05, 2018, 07:13:48 pm
Because Trump is a big hammer thinker. His responses are crude and absolutist. If the Woodward excerpts tell us anything it's that Trump doesn't think about anything but winning, and doesn't care who that hurts. The US is self-sufficient in oil and natural gas now. It doesn't need our oil. Threatening us with an oil shutoff should be fairly obvious to him, or would be the instant someone suggests it.

Right but that would generate a huge backlash.  Auto tariffs also generate a backlash but yet they are still on the table.

I mean he could threaten military action too.  He's not crazy enough to invoke impeachment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 05, 2018, 07:38:15 pm
Right but that would generate a huge backlash.  Auto tariffs also generate a backlash but yet they are still on the table.

I mean he could threaten military action too.  He's not crazy enough to invoke impeachment.

He wouldn't "invoke" it but he certainly seems crazy enough to induce it. Mostly among his own party as well, or so it seems currently. they are possibly afraid to face the electorate in 2020 with this nitwit at the helm.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 05, 2018, 08:47:38 pm
He wouldn't "invoke" it but he certainly seems crazy enough to induce it. Mostly among his own party as well, or so it seems currently. they are possibly afraid to face the electorate in 2020 with this nitwit at the helm.

Ok, well you agree with Argus then.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 05, 2018, 08:47:52 pm
I mean Sir Johnnie...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 05, 2018, 09:24:08 pm
Ok, well you agree with Argus then.

He agrees with me.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 05, 2018, 11:32:47 pm
And yes, I suspect most people do support maintaining legal immigration since it's pretty what built their country, and ours.

Yeah.  What I meant by that is maintaining roughly the levels we're at now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 06, 2018, 11:10:32 am
Right but that would generate a huge backlash.  Auto tariffs also generate a backlash but yet they are still on the table.

Like he would care about a backlash! They only have a trade agreement with south Korea because his economic adviser stole the paper off his desk so he couldn't cancel it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 06, 2018, 11:10:59 am
Yeah.  What I meant by that is maintaining roughly the levels we're at now.

Why?

Why the levels we have now instead of 100k more or 100k less?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 06, 2018, 11:11:12 am
Anybody want to speculate as to who wrote the op-ed on Trump the NYT published just recently? I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and suggest it was none other than VP Pence. His apparent religious fanaticism has him thinking of himself as a sort of savior, appointed by a higher power to take over the country post Trump, and now he feels that time has come. The op-ed also uses the words "load star" which is an expression he uses. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 06, 2018, 12:50:40 pm
I have to doff my hat to the father of Mollie Tibbet's father who even through his suffering the loss of his daughter, asked politicians (Trump's name comes to mind) not to use the fact the alleged killer was an undocumented immigrant, which emphasized his daughters stance against racism. Trump, and of course those with similar racist, xenophobic thoughts will of course flog this for everything they think they can get out of it, regardless of the fathers wishes to show respect.

The father of Mollie Tibbetts, an Iowa college student whose body was found last month, has called on others to not “callously distort and corrupt” her death to promote a political agenda, a day after President Trump’s eldest son blamed Democrats for her death.

"We are offended by people using a tragedy to promote a political agenda, except when it's an agenda we agree with!"
  -the left, and also the right.


A dead white girl is just too precious to waste, and we see that with both Mollie Tibbetts and Reese Fallon.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 06, 2018, 01:17:07 pm
suggest it was none other than VP Pence

I considered that as well, but so far he has done nothing that would jeopardize his pending windfall. He has been waiting since day one for Trump to fumble, but is he willing to risk getting booted by taking action?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 06, 2018, 03:24:33 pm
Hopefully if Pence does end up taking over he will limit himself to screwing up his own country and not the rest of the world as well.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 06, 2018, 05:04:11 pm
It’s not going to be someone important...  it’ll be a 2nd teir advisor with occasional access to the president.   All his people are Trumpites.  They’ll go down with the ship.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 06, 2018, 05:12:32 pm
I considered that as well, but so far he has done nothing that would jeopardize his pending windfall. He has been waiting since day one for Trump to fumble, but is he willing to risk getting booted by taking action?

He has gone on record as saying the op-ed was none of his doings so where would that leave him if he did take the helm from Trump and that statement turned out to be a lie? Perhaps whoever the culprit is hopes his/her identity will never be revealed. And if Pence was outed in that scenario he could claim he was just protecting the country from the "orange devil" or some such.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 06, 2018, 05:30:27 pm
It’s not going to be someone important...  it’ll be a 2nd teir advisor with occasional access to the president.   All his people are Trumpites.  They’ll go down with the ship.

From the NYT op-ed:

"The Times is taking the rare step of publishing an anonymous Op-Ed essay. We have done so at the request of the author, a senior official in the Trump administration whose identity is known to us and whose job would be jeopardized by its disclosure."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 06, 2018, 05:45:05 pm
From the NYT op-ed:

"The Times is taking the rare step of publishing an anonymous Op-Ed essay. We have done so at the request of the author, a senior official in the Trump administration whose identity is known to us and whose job would be jeopardized by its disclosure."

It could mean just about anyone.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senior_administration_official
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 06, 2018, 06:22:27 pm
Like he would care about a backlash! They only have a trade agreement with south Korea because his economic adviser stole the paper off his desk so he couldn't cancel it.

Welllll.... this makes some sense but an oil embargo is something that came out of your imagination not his.

Then again - since we started this sub-discussion things have got worse, much worse.  People are laughing about it but they shouldn't.  They really shouldn't.

There could be a disaster, with millions of people impacted - including Canada.  I don't feel comfortable laughing about this.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 06, 2018, 07:17:47 pm
So there's an unelected shadow government running the White House because the actual, accountable and elected president is unfit to serve the constitution and incapable of keeping his staff in check. Yeah....that's not at all alarming. /s
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 06, 2018, 07:25:07 pm
So there's an unelected shadow government running the White House because the actual, accountable and elected president is unfit to serve the constitution and incapable of keeping his staff in check. Yeah....that's not at all alarming. /s

A country went from world superpower to unstable in 1 1/2 years....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 07, 2018, 12:08:52 pm
A country went from world superpower to unstable in 1 1/2 years....

When people lose respect for the government they're not as careful about who they put in charge of it. The US government has been going downhill in terms of public respect for years. This is mostly because of the massive flow of uncontrolled money into election coffers. When you figure politicians are pretty much a bunch of pimps and **** who don't give a **** about you - because they ARE - why care much about who you vote for?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 07, 2018, 12:17:21 pm
What a treat it was to spend an hour listening to a (former) POTUS give a speech, especially without them having to read along with a finger on the page following each word like a grade school student. Obama slammed Trump in many ways and of course the timing will hopefully affect the mid terms. I imagine there will be some tweets after Trump has a look/listen.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 07, 2018, 12:18:10 pm
Money equals free speech in the US of A. The Supreme Court says so.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 07, 2018, 12:50:38 pm
Trump now wants Sessions to find out who the person was who wrote the NYT op-ed and potentially try him for treason. (That is of course before he plans to fire the AG) He seems to want the DOJ to investigate anyone who speaks out against him. Trump obviously doesn't understand what the **** he is talking about. I wonder if/when the right wing idiots who voted this **** in will come to their senses.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 07, 2018, 02:13:54 pm
Trump just claimed he fell asleep during Obama's speech. I would almost guarantee you that's just more BS and he was as awake as he has been in a while.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 07, 2018, 09:50:43 pm
Ha ha, now this was funny to me. I was downtown yesterday and I bought a plaid shirt. Now this occured. I bet the sales of palid shirts will skyrocket.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/we-found-tyler-linfesty-plaid-shirt-guy-who-trolled-trumps-rally-with-hilarious-faces
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 07, 2018, 10:25:15 pm
When people lose respect for the government they're not as careful about who they put in charge of it.

There is a dude on the other board who has never heard of Bob Woodward.  He doesn't care.  It's MSM so it's all lies.  He tries to point out that Woodward used ANONYMOUS sources !

The news is like video games to these people.

And... it doesn't matter.  Demanding respect for proven traditions such as the constitution and the press is like demanding your grandkids listen to Jazz.  It ain't gonna happen.

They didn't teach why democracy worked, so soon it won't.  And there will be violence ... I'm starting to think...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 07, 2018, 10:33:49 pm
There is a dude on the other board who has never heard of Bob Woodward.  He doesn't care.  It's MSM so it's all lies.  He tries to point out that Woodward used ANONYMOUS sources !

The news is like video games to these people.

And... it doesn't matter.  Demanding respect for proven traditions such as the constitution and the press is like demanding your grandkids listen to Jazz.  It ain't gonna happen.

They didn't teach why democracy worked, so soon it won't.  And there will be violence ... I'm starting to think...

Let me take a guess, taxme?
I don't expect an answer.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 08, 2018, 06:41:32 am
Let me take a guess, taxme?
I don't expect an answer.

Nah.  Charles told me I'm not supposed to talk to him.  I started poking at him in the free speech zone and he flamed out, but because it's "tit for tat" the only way to stop it is to ask the sane one to leave it alone.

There's a few more Trumpian types who showed up but they are fascinating because they are true believers.  They haven't learned to lie like taxme yet. 

(Yes taxme lies including - get this - Angela Merkel is a secret JEW !!! :D :D :D )
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 08, 2018, 12:25:02 pm
Nah.  Charles told me I'm not supposed to talk to him.  I started poking at him in the free speech zone and he flamed out, but because it's "tit for tat" the only way to stop it is to ask the sane one to leave it alone.

There's a few more Trumpian types who showed up but they are fascinating because they are true believers.  They haven't learned to lie like taxme yet. 

(Yes taxme lies including - get this - Angela Merkel is a secret JEW !!! :D :D :D )

taxme and poochy, we need to build a wall!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 08, 2018, 01:46:42 pm
Ha ha, now this was funny to me. I was downtown yesterday and I bought a plaid shirt. Now this occured. I bet the sales of palid shirts will skyrocket.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/we-found-tyler-linfesty-plaid-shirt-guy-who-trolled-trumps-rally-with-hilarious-faces

Plaid Shirt Guy...  not the hero we deserve, but the one we need right now.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 08, 2018, 02:50:21 pm
There is a dude on the other board who has never heard of Bob Woodward.  He doesn't care.  It's MSM so it's all lies.  He tries to point out that Woodward used ANONYMOUS sources !

This is not a normal person. Most people, even Trump supporters, are not like that. They're just getting their news from biased sources like FOX.

Quote
They didn't teach why democracy worked, so soon it won't.  And there will be violence ... I'm starting to think...

Did the people fail or did the political parties fail? Because it seems to me the people have every right to be cynical about corrupt, self-serving politicians who have shown time and time again they don't give a **** about the people or the country as compared to about themselves and their well-heeled paymasters.

Although I don't think it's outside money fueling the current Democratic Tea party (the coffee party? The cocoa party?). It's indignation and outrage at Donald Trump, and by extension, everyone and everything associated with him. And to a certain extent, that includes white people.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 08, 2018, 04:03:55 pm
This is not a normal person. Most people, even Trump supporters, are not like that. They're just getting their news from biased sources like FOX.

Can you convince me that these people, who are waking up after never having been part of politics, are NOT the ones keeping Trump in power ?

Quote
Did the people fail or did the political parties fail? Because it seems to me the people have every right to be cynical about corrupt, self-serving politicians who have shown time and time again they don't give a **** about the people or the country as compared to about themselves and their well-heeled paymasters.

To the degree that they vote for their own interests I agree with you.

Bob Rae, Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan were elected on waves of dissatisfaction - mostly with the economy - and all represented a new approach.  Maybe Clinton less than others, but his was still an upset.

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 08, 2018, 05:20:50 pm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6144837/Trump-says-use-MILITARY-build-wall-Congress-wont-fund-DHS.html

Trump wants to use the military to build the wall.  But does that count as Mexico ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 08, 2018, 05:27:35 pm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6144837/Trump-says-use-MILITARY-build-wall-Congress-wont-fund-DHS.html

Trump wants to use the military to build the wall.  But does that count as Mexico ?

One can easily answere that question with a question, who pays the US military?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 08, 2018, 05:52:53 pm
One can easily answere that question with a question, who pays the US military?

Please go ahead and answere then...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 08, 2018, 06:44:52 pm
Can you convince me that these people, who are waking up after never having been part of politics, are NOT the ones keeping Trump in power ?

Sure. Because there aren't enough of them. Trump got elected because

Clinton was a very unpopular candidate the Republicans had spent years slinging mud on (succesfully)
The identity politics of the Democrats frustrated and insulted a lot of blue collar whites
A lot of people in the middle American has become convinced the Democrats only catered to special interest identity groups and especially hated people who didn't live in the big cities.
Some people felt that a billionaire (alleged) like Trump would be honest and not cave in to the moneyed interests that control the rest of congress.
Some people felt that Trump as an outsider would resist the 'washington crowd' doing things the way they'd always done them
Some people felt he was a great businessman(!?) and so would do a better job than a 'washington insider' like Clinton
Clinton ran a shitty campaign and is not a good speaker and has no charisma
Trump got masses of free publicity from the press, who devoted breathless live coverage to every speech he gave.
The FBI investigations and associated years of hearings and condemnation convinced a lot of people Clinton was somehow or other guilty of something or other that was bad.
Bernie Sanders energized the Left wing of the Democrats and they were infuriated when she won, especially when it looked like she got help, and so they turned their backs on her and did nothing to help her win the election.

Btw, it's ironic that the Left wing of the Democrats arguably cost them the election last time, and now they are trying to purge long-serving Democrats in order to confront Trump more energetically. Trump would not be president without Bernie Sanders and his supporters.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 08, 2018, 08:21:37 pm
Please go ahead and answere then...

Perhaps the American taxpayer maybe?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 09, 2018, 09:48:53 am
Sure. Because there aren't enough of them. Trump got elected because

Clinton was a very unpopular candidate the Republicans had spent years slinging mud on (succesfully)
The identity politics of the Democrats frustrated and insulted a lot of blue collar whites
A lot of people in the middle American has become convinced the Democrats only catered to special interest identity groups and especially hated people who didn't live in the big cities.
Some people felt that a billionaire (alleged) like Trump would be honest and not cave in to the moneyed interests that control the rest of congress.
Some people felt that Trump as an outsider would resist the 'washington crowd' doing things the way they'd always done them
Some people felt he was a great businessman(!?) and so would do a better job than a 'washington insider' like Clinton
Clinton ran a shitty campaign and is not a good speaker and has no charisma
Trump got masses of free publicity from the press, who devoted breathless live coverage to every speech he gave.
The FBI investigations and associated years of hearings and condemnation convinced a lot of people Clinton was somehow or other guilty of something or other that was bad.
Bernie Sanders energized the Left wing of the Democrats and they were infuriated when she won, especially when it looked like she got help, and so they turned their backs on her and did nothing to help her win the election.

Btw, it's ironic that the Left wing of the Democrats arguably cost them the election last time, and now they are trying to purge long-serving Democrats in order to confront Trump more energetically. Trump would not be president without Bernie Sanders and his supporters.

Ok, well I am feeling slightly better but this feeling would have to be supported by a Trump rebuke in the November vote.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 09, 2018, 01:18:19 pm
Btw, it's ironic that the Left wing of the Democrats arguably cost them the election last time, and now they are trying to purge long-serving Democrats in order to confront Trump more energetically. Trump would not be president without Bernie Sanders and his supporters.

You are right, how about that left wing, thinking they are entitled to representation. They should know that they are unimportant and need to be seen and not heard.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 10, 2018, 02:29:37 pm
You are right, how about that left wing, thinking they are entitled to representation. They should know that they are unimportant and need to be seen and not heard.
I don't think people are saying the left wing isn't entitled to representation. I think the problem is the perception that they made demands and, since they were unwilling to compromise, decided to "take their ball and go home".

So, Sanders proposed free tuition and single payer health care. Clinton, not so much. But instead of doing the logical thing and saying "I'm not getting everything, but by supporting Clnton I can get at least get more than the republicans were offering" they turned on the Democrats. So, at least some BernieBros and assorted far-left types decided to vote Green, or just stayed home, which ultimately benefited Trump (the guy that they should have been horrified by).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 11, 2018, 01:45:59 am
More from the Bob Woodward book, this time an excerpt about Gary Cohn.
Quote
[Cohn,] the Goldman Sachs president turned National Economic Council director came away from his very first meeting with Donald Trump “astounded” by just how dumb the guy was. During a chat about various economic issues, Cohn told Trump that the Federal Reserve would likely increase rates during his first term in office, to which President Buy High, Sell Low reportedly responded, “We should just go borrow a lot of money, hold it, and then sell it to make money.” This suggestion, and “lack of basic understanding” about how federal debt works apparently sent chills up the spine of Cohn, who explained that borrowing more money would in fact increase the deficit and add to the debt, something that would, in theory, be counterproductive for a delusional president who had pledged to completely eliminate the federal debt. But President “I’m, like, really smart” wasn’t finished:

Quote
The president-elect offered a solution.

    “Just run the presses—print money,” Trump said, according to Woodward.

    Cohn suggested that would be detrimental to the fiscal and economic health of the U.S., since printing vast amounts of money is thought to lead to inflation. . . . Cohn also pointed to the federal debt ceiling, a statutory limit to the amount of debt the federal government can have outstanding. Even approaching the debt ceiling can be harmful to the stock market and U.S. economic growth.

    But according to Woodward, Cohn’s message did not seem to connect.

    “It was clear that Trump did not understand the way the U.S. government debt cycle balance sheet worked,” Woodward wrote.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/09/trump-has-the-iq-of-an-inbred-tanning-bed-says-gary-cohn


It seems like even the typical MLWtard has a better grasp of basic economics than Mr Stable Genius.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 11, 2018, 06:37:43 am
And when the economy crashes, his dull-eyed fans will blame the Jooz, Muslims, or Mexicans for what went down.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 11, 2018, 06:42:57 am
http://www.openculture.com/2018/09/download-bob-woodwards-fear-trump-white-house-free-audiobook.html

You can get Fear for free by signing up for Audible's free trial.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 11, 2018, 07:48:24 am
For a second there, I thought this site had its first spam account.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 11, 2018, 03:17:06 pm
More from the Bob Woodward book, this time an excerpt about Gary Cohn.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/09/trump-has-the-iq-of-an-inbred-tanning-bed-says-gary-cohn

It seems like even the typical MLWtard has a better grasp of basic economics than Mr Stable Genius.


Woodword was on Colbert the other night, and he talks about how Trump has these really dumb ideas. He doesn't know where they come from, but he's always had them, and he can't be convinced they're dumb. Probably because he's an idiot.

I recall reading a story on his bankruptcy from one of the bankers who gathered in a meeting room to discuss what to do about all the money he owed. He said he'd never in his career come across a CEO who knew and understood so little about his company's finances. They decided to leave him in nominal charge (but in reality answering to them) because he was a good promotor and the business was worth more with him promoting it.

It was around this time in the book Trump never wrote, that he allegedly was walking past a beggar with Ivanka and said "You see that guy? He's worth two hundred million bucks more than me."

All that saved him was reality television, where he said what he was told to say, and got a big rep as a stern, intelligent businessman, which he was able to translate into name recognition and selling his name. I highly doubt he's worth billions, or even A billion. After he lost the ability to get financing from regular sources he wound up getting it from 'irregular' sources, like Russian oligarchs. No one really knows how much he owes to these oligarchs. But the fact he won't release any verifiable information about his net worth is telling.



Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 12, 2018, 02:49:16 pm
Just had a little visit over at what's up with the MLWtards. I see likes of and especially taxme are still blathering on in support of Trump in the most ridiculous ways. The fact he is still there tells me something of the extreme bias of the admin. CA must likewise be  a huge supporter of the likes of Donald. It's fun to fly over every once in awhile.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on September 12, 2018, 03:00:31 pm
I have been trying to give Trudeau and his team a lot of benefit of the doubt over their handling of the NAFTA file but stuff like this makes by blood boil:
https://womenintheworld.com/2018/09/11/a-look-at-the-psychology-behind-the-appeal-of-authoritarian-leaders/

WTF is Chrystia Freeland doing sitting on this panel while she is in the middle of extremely tense negotiations over NAFTA?

Is she an idiot? Even a reasonable person mind find this insulting but we are talking about Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 12, 2018, 03:15:55 pm
I have been trying to give Trudeau and his team a lot of benefit of the doubt over their handling of the NAFTA file but stuff like this makes by blood boil:
https://womenintheworld.com/2018/09/11/a-look-at-the-psychology-behind-the-appeal-of-authoritarian-leaders/

WTF is Chrystia Freeland doing sitting on this panel while she is in the middle of extremely tense negotiations over NAFTA?

Is she an idiot? Even a reasonable person mind find this insulting but we are talking about Trump.

Um, maybe she is helping underscore the damage the likes of Trump are bringing to democracy. Or maybe you are puzzling over whether it's a noun or a verb.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on September 12, 2018, 03:47:58 pm
Um, maybe she is helping underscore the damage the likes of Trump are bringing to democracy. Or maybe you are puzzling over whether it's a noun or a verb.
I assumed it would be obvious that you don't trash talk the guy you need to make a deal with while you are in middle of negotiating a deal no matter how little you think of the person in question. The obliviousness of people like probably explains why Freyland was so dumb
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 12, 2018, 03:56:37 pm
I assumed it would be obvious that you don't trash talk the guy you need to make a deal with while you are in middle of negotiating a deal no matter how little you think of the person in question. The obliviousness of people like probably explains why Freyland was so dumb

Speaking truth does not make you dumb. Sucking up to an idiot like Trump would not only make you look dumb, but also inconsequential.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 12, 2018, 05:17:09 pm
I assumed it would be obvious that you don't trash talk the guy you need to make a deal with while you are in middle of negotiating a deal no matter how little you think of the person in question. The obliviousness of people like probably explains why Freyland was so dumb

Please quote exactly what Freeland said that has you upset.  I watched the clips...   I couldn't find anything that Freeland said that is anti-Trump.   Maybe some general statements about leaders using fear and racism in the politics.   I tend to agree with her.   We can't be afraid to say anything that might somehow be construed as bad by some despot leader, or even our neighbours to the south.  What will they do?  Tweet bad things about us?  Cut off their nose to spite their face trying to harm us?   You don't prevent bullying by cowering in fear.   You confront it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on September 12, 2018, 06:42:58 pm
Please quote exactly what Freeland said that has you upset.
She attended the conference and sat on a panel which was set up to bash Trump. The optics matter - not what she specifically said. She is in a unique position and a unique time and she had no business being there. Lot of others could have taken her spot and said the same things.

The place for standing up to Trump is in the negotiating room while seeking allies in congress. Attending that conference was noticed by right wing media and it undermines Canada's position when it comes to getting Republican law makers to take on Trump and their pro-Trump voter base.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on September 12, 2018, 06:46:27 pm
She attended the conference and sat on a panel which was set up to bash Trump. The optics matter - not what she specifically said. She is in a unique position and a unique time and she had no business being there. Lot of others could have taken her spot and said the same things.

I'm sorry, but Canada, and the Government of Canada, are not beholden to Donald J Trump.  It's not our job to appease him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on September 12, 2018, 06:48:37 pm
I'm sorry, but Canada, and the Government of Canada, are not beholden to Donald J Trump.  It's not our job to appease him.
Sorry, the job of the Canadian government is to ensure the trade relationship with the US is not disrupted. That can't be done without appeasing Trump at some level. IOW - appeasing Trump *is* Freeland's job whether you like or not and attending this conference could only harm the most important file on Freeland's desk.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on September 12, 2018, 06:52:07 pm
Sorry, the job of the Canadian government is to ensure the trade relationship with the US is not disrupted. That can't be done without appeasing Trump at some level. IOW - appeasing Trump *is* Freeland's job whether you like or not and attending this conference could only harm the most important file on Freeland's desk.
Nope.  Only cowards want to appease bullies. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 12, 2018, 06:54:05 pm
not what she specifically said.

So...  she didn't say anything...   just attended a "Women in the World" conference in Toronto.

You're being a partisan hack.   ::)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 13, 2018, 12:00:42 am
I listened to an interesting interview on CBC radio the current with Bob Woodward regarding his latest book "Fear" It was a sensible intelligent discussion. Then I switched to TV and heard Donald telling us about the wonderful job he did a year ago in Puerto Rico. The contrast was pretty much stunning. It seems maybe even the dumbest of the conservatives in the states are getting the picture since his support has dropped to something like 36%. Hopefully the Secret Service has arranged to make sure he has no access to "the football" in the same fashion as they did with Nixon when he was unraveling.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 13, 2018, 06:25:56 am
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo

I use the weighted poll of the fivethirtyeight group.  Trump is down about 2% but that is happening in a very impactful area.  It's not his worse as he was around 37% last January.  He's been up around 42% all year.

A few notes:

At 35% the Republicans start to lose - and not only Congress but the Senate as well.  That's a significant benchmark.

Also - they still don't know why he is going down again.  I find it odd that they're unable to figure that out.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 13, 2018, 10:04:29 am
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo

I use the weighted poll of the fivethirtyeight group.  Trump is down about 2% but that is happening in a very impactful area.  It's not his worse as he was around 37% last January.  He's been up around 42% all year.

A few notes:

At 35% the Republicans start to lose - and not only Congress but the Senate as well.  That's a significant benchmark.

Also - they still don't know why he is going down again.  I find it odd that they're unable to figure that out.
Because social media platforms are working on rooting out the Russian propaganda squads. They've made large hits lately.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 13, 2018, 10:56:56 am
And his current tweetments won't likely help his #'s either. While Florence is bearing down on a wide swath of his eastern coastline, he is still whinging away with his "fake news" attacks on the press as to their reporting on his poor handling of the storm that hit Puerto Rico a year ago, going so far as to say that if someone died of old age in PR, the "fake news" would add their names to the list simply to make him look bad. He doesn't seem to get he doesn't need the media to make himself look bad. He does a fine job of that all on his own. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 13, 2018, 12:42:01 pm
Also - they still don't know why he is going down again.  I find it odd that they're unable to figure that out.
I can think of a few possibilities...

- Some of Trump's horrible policies are starting to actually have an effect. (I'm thinking people like farmers who now receive government assistance due to Trump's trade wars, or the people who had been on Obamacare who now have trouble getting decent health care insurance thanks to Republican efforts.) A year ago, all those problems were hypothetical; now for some people they're real.

- Someone on another forum suggested it could just be a seasonal thing. Trump had been doing some really dumb things yet his support remained high over the summer because, well, people had other things to occupy themselves (BBQs, vacations, etc.) Now that summer is over people are starting to concentrate on the real world, they are now thinking "Oh yea, locking kids in cages is bad now that I think about it".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 13, 2018, 12:55:22 pm
Speaking truth does not make you dumb. Sucking up to an idiot like Trump would not only make you look dumb, but also inconsequential.

Some might think that there is a difference between "sucking up to Trump" and actually going out of your way to antagonize him.

For the most part I think the Liberals have done about as well as they can over dealing with the U.S. Trump is a bully and an idiot, and its put the Canadian government in an almost unwinnable situation. I do think its fair game for a private citizen to point out that Trump is a fool, but a diplomat must be more... diplomatic. This doesn't mean she has to give in to America's demands, nor does it mean she can't use every tool at her disposal to get the best trade deal.

But appearing at an event which was designed to bash Trump seems unnecessarily antagonistic. It doesn't improve Canada's trade position, and it gives the people we are dealing with yet another excuse and/or distraction for the failure to reach a deal.

"We could have had a free trade deal with the U.S. but Canada sent someone who wasn't willing to cut a deal because she hates me".
- A potential Trump excuse
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 13, 2018, 01:35:38 pm
Some might think that there is a difference between "sucking up to Trump" and actually going out of your way to antagonize him.

For the most part I think the Liberals have done about as well as they can over dealing with the U.S. Trump is a bully and an idiot, and its put the Canadian government in an almost unwinnable situation. I do think its fair game for a private citizen to point out that Trump is a fool, but a diplomat must be more... diplomatic. This doesn't mean she has to give in to America's demands, nor does it mean she can't use every tool at her disposal to get the best trade deal.

But appearing at an event which was designed to bash Trump seems unnecessarily antagonistic. It doesn't improve Canada's trade position, and it gives the people we are dealing with yet another excuse and/or distraction for the failure to reach a deal.

"We could have had a free trade deal with the U.S. but Canada sent someone who wasn't willing to cut a deal because she hates me".
- A potential Trump excuse

I would agree there is merit to the idea of simply maneuvering around Trump as opposed to meeting him head on, however he is the type who will conjure up whatever excuse comes to mind when he thinks he is not getting his way. Hopefully the people who are actually doing the dealing behind closed doors are more rational.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 13, 2018, 04:13:47 pm
I would agree there is merit to the idea of simply maneuvering around Trump as opposed to meeting him head on, however he is the type who will conjure up whatever excuse comes to mind when he thinks he is not getting his way.
Trump might conjure up excuses, and many of his cult members would believe him. But for the few republicans who haven't gone off the deep end, why give them even the tiniest reason to doubt that Canada was negotiating in good faith?

Quote
Hopefully the people who are actually doing the dealing behind closed doors are more rational.
Trouble is, they still have to follow the orders of Trump.  In the past, some in the administration have hidden stuff/manipulated Trump, but after the NY Times oped/letter, Trump will probably be more paranoid and careful about what goes on around him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 13, 2018, 04:26:15 pm
Trump might conjure up excuses, and many of his cult members would believe him. But for the few republicans who haven't gone off the deep end, why give them even the tiniest reason to doubt that Canada was negotiating in good faith?
Trouble is, they still have to follow the orders of Trump.  In the past, some in the administration have hidden stuff/manipulated Trump, but after the NY Times oped/letter, Trump will probably be more paranoid and careful about what goes on around him.

I suspect his focus will change come November when he loses at least the house, perhaps even the senate and then the big "I" word starts being bandied about. Especially when it will be on the lips of his own party as they look to 2020.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 13, 2018, 04:49:34 pm
Because social media platforms are working on rooting out the Russian propaganda squads. They've made large hits lately.
Interesting theory for sure.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 13, 2018, 07:00:22 pm
Nope.  Only cowards want to appease bullies.

There speaks someone with no skin in the game. it's not YOUR job at risk so you're free to be all brave and noble.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 13, 2018, 07:02:36 pm
So...  she didn't say anything...   just attended a "Women in the World" conference in Toronto.

There was an interview on BNN the other night with a higher up US trade guy and he said that Freeland's criticism of Trump - even though she never named him - made them very angry, and as a result she isn't allowed anywhere near the white house.

I don't get where people think it's useful to criticize Trump as if that's going to help any and as if he isn't already being far more heavily criticized in his own country anyway. Trump ALWAYS reacts to criticism with open hostility. So what exactly is the up-side of criticizing him?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 13, 2018, 07:06:43 pm
That the deal is hung up over a dairy board that protects a thousand or so farmers is ridiculous. Someone was on BNN the other day pointing out that when this thing was set up there were about 120,000 such farmers, and there was chaos in the marketplace. It no longer has any reason to exist, and it might actually have hurt us since it makes it almost impossible to export. The US, meanwhile, has quadrupled their exports of dairy products.

Then there's this from the CBC, which basically says that the big red line chapter nineteen things is pointless, as well.

 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wednesday-nafta-chapter19-1.4803246
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 13, 2018, 07:37:40 pm
There was an interview on BNN the other night with a higher up US trade guy and he said that Freeland's criticism of Trump - even though she never named him - made them very angry, and as a result she isn't allowed anywhere near the white house.

I don't get where people think it's useful to criticize Trump as if that's going to help any and as if he isn't already being far more heavily criticized in his own country anyway. Trump ALWAYS reacts to criticism with open hostility. So what exactly is the up-side of criticizing him?

What exactly is the upside of letting him run around like a bull in a china shop w/o calling him on it? He'll simply assume he must be doing a great job and get even goofier.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 13, 2018, 07:48:45 pm
That the deal is hung up over a dairy board that protects a thousand or so farmers is ridiculous. 


Quote from: SirJohn
There speaks someone with no skin in the game. it's not YOUR job at risk so you're free to be all brave and noble.

So....  ???

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on September 13, 2018, 08:24:18 pm
There speaks someone with no skin in the game. it's not YOUR job at risk so you're free to be all brave and noble.

I learned in grade 5 that trying to 'appease' bullies doesn't work.   

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 14, 2018, 10:30:45 am
What exactly is the upside of letting him run around like a bull in a china shop w/o calling him on it? He'll simply assume he must be doing a great job and get even goofier.

This presupposes that a minor foreign politician criticizing him without even naming him is going to in some way limit his rampaging when open and violent denunciations from half of America impacts him not at all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 14, 2018, 10:34:52 am
I learned in grade 5 that trying to 'appease' bullies doesn't work.

And yelling insults from several blocks away is going to help?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 14, 2018, 10:38:25 am
Well I imagine the next flood of tweets from Trump won't be about the floods on the east coast now it comes out the Manafort has flipped.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on September 14, 2018, 11:27:40 am
And yelling insults from several blocks away is going to help?

Bullies should prevent people from going places where the bullies aren't, too?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 14, 2018, 12:01:07 pm
This presupposes that a minor foreign politician criticizing him without even naming him is going to in some way limit his rampaging when open and violent denunciations from half of America impacts him not at all.

I like how you try to throw crap around like "minor foreign politician" obviously for the sole reason that she is Liberal. Let me remind you that she is Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs and also a Rhodes Scholar.
Now lets get back to the actual thread anf go start your own thread about "minor foreign politicians". I suggest Andrew Scheer would be a good start.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 14, 2018, 12:23:23 pm
She speaks English too. Apparently Trump's schools didn't teach it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 14, 2018, 03:20:56 pm
She speaks English too. Apparently Trump's schools didn't teach it.

Judging how he sounds when speaking from notes, reading skills weren't high on the list either.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 14, 2018, 03:59:46 pm
I like how you try to throw crap around like "minor foreign politician" obviously for the sole reason that she is Liberal. Let me remind you that she is Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs and also a Rhodes Scholar.
Now lets get back to the actual thread anf go start your own thread about "minor foreign politicians". I suggest Andrew Scheer would be a good start.

Uhm… she IS a minor foreign politician to them. Hell, he's been criticized by Angela Merkel, Theresa May and Emmanual Macron with zero results. You think the foreign minister of Canada is going to shift his behavior?  ???
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 14, 2018, 04:07:42 pm
Uhm… she IS a minor foreign politician to them. Hell, he's been criticized by Angela Merkel, Theresa May and Emmanual Macron with zero results. You think the foreign minister of Canada is going to shift his behavior?  ???

Who's "them"? You mean Trump. I do agree his behavior will not likely improve but that doesn't making calling a spade a spade wrong. Other "monor foreign politicians" seem to agree.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 14, 2018, 04:31:57 pm
Who's "them"? You mean Trump. I do agree his behavior will not likely improve but that doesn't making calling a spade a spade wrong. Other "monor foreign politicians" seem to agree.

Really? Then let's hear some criticism of China and their human rights record. You want to stand up to China on behalf of Taiwan?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 14, 2018, 04:45:58 pm
Then let's hear some criticism of China and their human rights record.

You only need to listen (https://www.macleans.ca/news/world/trudeau-uses-shanghai-stage-to-publicly-critique-china-on-human-rights/), and don't forget about Saudi Arabia and our stance there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 14, 2018, 04:49:35 pm
Really? Then let's hear some criticism of China and their human rights record. You want to stand up to China on behalf of Taiwan?

I'll refer you to Impacts post. Once again, a spade a spade.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 14, 2018, 09:02:28 pm
Haven't heard much from Donald, I guess he just hopes the flood waters don't mess up his golf course.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 15, 2018, 12:18:37 am
I don't think the hurricane was at the top of his mind today. I think he was preoccupied with other things.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 15, 2018, 02:12:06 pm
Current mood:

(https://i.imgur.com/Rh7Wtdu.gif)

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 16, 2018, 10:41:17 am
Well, good... but what's it got to do with 45 ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 16, 2018, 11:56:05 am
Well, good... but what's it got to do with 45 ?

Well, Michael, as Bubber mentions Dolt 45 has a lot on his mind right now.  Specifically in regards to just how much Paul Manafort is telling Robert Mueller's team.

Interesting aside: Republicans have been complaining that the Mueller probe is an expensive waste of money, but the Mueller probe is now operating in the black! The $46 million of forfeitures recovered from Manafort as part of his plea deal exceeds the cost of the whole Mueller probe to this point.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 16, 2018, 12:48:05 pm
That oughta roil Trump's toupee to find out his former campaign chair is not only flipping, (which Trump figured he would never do) but he's funding the investigation at the same time. More noisy times in the west wing coming up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 16, 2018, 04:18:42 pm
You only need to listen (https://www.macleans.ca/news/world/trudeau-uses-shanghai-stage-to-publicly-critique-china-on-human-rights/), and don't forget about Saudi Arabia and our stance there.

Broad generalities aren't the same as specific demands.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 17, 2018, 07:19:20 am
https://www.axios.com/brett-kavanaugh-sexual-assault-christine-blasey-ford-testify-387fac73-6291-46fe-861b-9e27134c6fd2.html

So the person accusing the Supreme Court Nominee is willing to testify.  End game here may be simply to delay the proceedings...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 17, 2018, 08:36:16 am
I think the end game is to let people know what kind of person they're electing to the Supreme Court.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 17, 2018, 09:24:46 am
They are going to lie to say that it's a conspiracy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 17, 2018, 10:03:03 am
I think the end game is to let people know what kind of person they're electing to the Supreme Court.
Appointing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 17, 2018, 11:44:44 am
https://www.axios.com/brett-kavanaugh-sexual-assault-christine-blasey-ford-testify-387fac73-6291-46fe-861b-9e27134c6fd2.html

So the person accusing the Supreme Court Nominee is willing to testify.  End game here may be simply to delay the proceedings...

I don't think so. I think the end game is making the Republicans look bad to female voters, a group that has been tilting more and more strongly Democratic.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 17, 2018, 12:09:00 pm
https://www.axios.com/brett-kavanaugh-sexual-assault-christine-blasey-ford-testify-387fac73-6291-46fe-861b-9e27134c6fd2.html

So the person accusing the Supreme Court Nominee is willing to testify.  End game here may be simply to delay the proceedings...

Oh I suspect the proceedings will be delayed and the vote won't happen at least Thursday. Even Kelly Anne Conway thinks she should testify but more importantly so do all 10 members of the judiciary committee.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 17, 2018, 03:06:41 pm
Nominating someone to the USSC is one of the most important things a POTUS does and now if there is a delay in that process to hear testimony of sexual assault allegations against the appointee, this will back things up ever closer to the mid terms and Trump's poll numbers are already quite low. More chaos in the west wing I expect.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 17, 2018, 05:07:33 pm
More chaos in the west wing I expect.

That would be KAOS, and Siegfried is behind the Resolute desk.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 19, 2018, 03:21:41 am
(https://i.imgur.com/3uiMDhf.jpg)

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 19, 2018, 10:41:20 am
(https://i.imgur.com/3uiMDhf.jpg)

 -k
I think that image needs a little context.

In Stormy Daniel's new book, she describes Donald Trump's Genitals. Her description: Small (but not freakishly tiny), shaped like one of the toad stools from Mario Kart. (There was also talk about 'yeti hair'.) So there you go... everything you wanted to know about Trump's Junk. Or didn't want to know. Or whatever.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/18/stormy-daniels-tell-all-book-on-trump-salacious-detail-and-claims-of-cheating

You know, of all the scandals involving Trump, this one may be the one that actually defeats him.

Election fraud involving Russia, or illegal financial dealings? Most of that would require Trump to be impeached, and the Republicans in congress will protect Trump even if they find the video of Trump performing oral sex on Putin while he personally hacks into the democratic servers (while Julian Assange looks on lovingly). What about Trump's base? Despite Trump locking children in cages, calling Neonazis "fine people", driving up the debt in order to give tax breaks to millionaires and starting a trade war, his support STILL hovers around 40%. (After all, they like them some racism, and trump gives it to them.)

But if people learn he's poorly endowed? Instead of his supporters seeing the "dominant businessman who wins against the odds" they will see the poor sad guy with tiny genitals. And THAT will probably hurt him with the electorate more than any financial or election scandal.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 19, 2018, 11:05:57 am
Yes, I think that having Li'l Donny described as being smaller than average and resembling the little mushroom guy from Mario Kart probably burns him in a way the rest of this stuff never could.  Everything about his personal brand is designed to convey the image of virility. It's why he insists on maintaining that ridiculous thing on his head, even when everybody can tell he's nearly bald, it's why he keeps going with what he imagines to be a healthy tan, even though everybody knows it's fake and weird looking.   If I recall, during the Republican primaries there was an exchange at the debates which resulted in him asserting the size of his equipment to be substantially large.  He tries to project this image of himself as a big alpha-male, and probably he tries so hard because he's very insecure.   He wants people to assume that he's YUUUUUGE, the happy little mushroom-guy from Mario Kart is the last thing he'd want people to imagine.


I can imagine the Mario Kart mushroom guy becoming a popular logo on signs at protests.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on September 19, 2018, 11:42:12 am
Segno that was one of the best rants in a while. Made my day. Totally agree. I pushed agree and it says disagree. I totally agree.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on September 19, 2018, 11:48:54 am
Yes, I think that having Li'l Donny described as being smaller than average and resembling the little mushroom guy from Mario Kart probably burns him in a way the rest of this stuff never could.  Everything about his personal brand is designed to convey the image of virility. It's why he insists on maintaining that ridiculous thing on his head, even when everybody can tell he's nearly bald, it's why he keeps going with what he imagines to be a healthy tan, even though everybody knows it's fake and weird looking.   If I recall, during the Republican primaries there was an exchange at the debates which resulted in him asserting the size of his equipment to be substantially large.  He tries to project this image of himself as a big alpha-male, and probably he tries so hard because he's very insecure.   He wants people to assume that he's YUUUUUGE, the happy little mushroom-guy from Mario Kart is the last thing he'd want people to imagine.


I can imagine the Mario Kart mushroom guy becoming a popular logo on signs at protests.

 -k

Kimmy you must be aware by now that men with small penises:

1. Run for office
2. Drive Corvettes
3. Wear Speedos
4. Think Ron Jeremy should be arrested and Shaq O'Neil is Satan.

Please do not ask how I know that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 19, 2018, 12:07:00 pm
Yes, I think that having Li'l Donny described as being smaller than average and resembling the little mushroom guy from Mario Kart probably burns him in a way the rest of this stuff never could.  Everything about his personal brand is designed to convey the image of virility. It's why he insists on maintaining that ridiculous thing on his head, even when everybody can tell he's nearly bald, it's why he keeps going with what he imagines to be a healthy tan, even though everybody knows it's fake and weird looking.   If I recall, during the Republican primaries there was an exchange at the debates which resulted in him asserting the size of his equipment to be substantially large.  He tries to project this image of himself as a big alpha-male, and probably he tries so hard because he's very insecure.   He wants people to assume that he's YUUUUUGE, the happy little mushroom-guy from Mario Kart is the last thing he'd want people to imagine.


I can imagine the Mario Kart mushroom guy becoming a popular logo on signs at protests.














 -k
I got a giggle. Trump won't be happy!

Replying to @nintendolife
We apologize for this unfortunate tweet from our social media intern. He'll be collecting the covfefe for the rest of the week!

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-45573951
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 19, 2018, 12:51:55 pm
Yes, I think that having Li'l Donny described as being smaller than average and resembling the little mushroom guy from Mario Kart probably burns him in a way the rest of this stuff never could.
I wonder if he could get a prescription for some antibiotics for that. Could be a sign of STD.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 19, 2018, 12:54:00 pm
Kimmy you must be aware by now that men with small penises:

1. Run for office
2. Drive Corvettes
Shouldn't that be "Drive Coffefes"?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 19, 2018, 01:55:09 pm
I'm willing to bet that Juli Briskman, the woman who gave the finger to Trump from her bicycle as his motorcade drove by in Va., and is now running for public office gets elected. If for no other reason than to underscore the number of people who agree with the gesture.


 https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj7-rSd3sfdAhWhKX0KHYIHD9wQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cosmopolitan.com%2Fsex-love%2Fa19692937%2Fjuli-briskman-cyclist-flipped-off-trump-lawsuit%2F&psig=AOvVaw1-6h85Q2jp5fS91lCt78F3&ust=1537469423799178
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 19, 2018, 02:28:32 pm
Breaking news: Trump makes astounding observation about the wetness of water.   Hydrologists are astounded!

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/donald-trump-wettest-water-hurricane_us_5ba1a88de4b046313fc056c1

Quote
Franklin Roosevelt: The only thing to fear is, fear itself

Abraham Lincoln: Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it

Donald Trump: One of the wettest we've ever seen from the standpoint of water


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 19, 2018, 02:33:32 pm
Breaking news: Trump makes astounding observation about the wetness of water.   Hydrologists are astounded!

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/donald-trump-wettest-water-hurricane_us_5ba1a88de4b046313fc056c1


 -k

Hey have you posted that for the benefit of the MLWtards? I'd like to see the Because_Canada trolls reaction for one.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 19, 2018, 02:40:04 pm
No, you go ahead if you wish. I don't want to deal with those people.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 19, 2018, 02:51:08 pm
No, you go ahead if you wish. I don't want to deal with those people.

 -k

I hear ya.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 19, 2018, 03:06:29 pm
I don't put much stock into what pornstars say about politics...   especially ones who like to get into the salacious details about Trump's dick.  It's on par with the nonsense from Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 19, 2018, 03:47:15 pm
https://www.thecut.com/2016/03/donald-trump-best-****-moments.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 19, 2018, 03:56:11 pm
Breaking news: Trump makes astounding observation about the wetness of water.   Hydrologists are astounded!

 -k
Doesn't it just make other things wet? Wet means it has water on it, not that it is water.

Sorry.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 19, 2018, 04:15:42 pm
https://www.redlineoil.com/waterwetter
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 19, 2018, 04:21:20 pm
I don't put much stock into what pornstars say about politics...   especially ones who like to get into the salacious details about Trump's dick.  It's on par with the nonsense from Trump.
Well, technically I don't think she was talking about politics. She was talking about Trump's junk.

However, events have made Trump's genitals a political issue.

If the republicans hadn't made such a big issue with Clinton's impeachment. If the republicans hadn't gotten themselves involved with the evangelical christians who keep trying to impose their moral code on people. If Trump had not engaged in the type of bigoted (including sexist) rhetoric that he has.

THEN maybe it wouldn't really matter. "Trump has a ****? So does half the population. Lets talk about the issues". But I think that ship has sailed a long long time ago.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 19, 2018, 05:26:47 pm
I hear ya.

Most of my posts over there are to Argus... which makes no sense...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 19, 2018, 05:36:08 pm

However, events have made Trump's genitals a political issue.


If Democrats attempt to capitalize on a pornstar's salacious nonsense, even in a passive way, then they will lose again.  And deservedly so.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 19, 2018, 08:03:19 pm
If Democrats attempt to capitalize on a pornstar's salacious nonsense, even in a passive way, then they will lose again.  And deservedly so.

I don't think they will but who knows. Let's face it, Trump's own history is what makes her story believable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 19, 2018, 09:12:58 pm
If Democrats attempt to capitalize on a pornstar's salacious nonsense, even in a passive way, then they will lose again.  And deservedly so.

So you would prefer to ignore Trump's own salacious comments about how he loves to grab women by their genitals? tsk tsk
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 19, 2018, 10:59:11 pm
If Democrats attempt to capitalize on a pornstar's salacious nonsense, even in a passive way, then they will lose again.  And deservedly so.
Why "deservedly so"? Why the double standard?

Why are Democrats to be condemned and deserve to lose for engaging in low-brow rhetoric, while the Republicans (you know, the one lead by someone who considers neo-nazis to be "fine people", and who lies and slanders constantly) don't deserve to lose, even though republican actions are far far more dispicable than just a joking reference to Trump as Stubby McBonespurs.

Shouldn't we consider the totality of the actions on both sides, and recognize that even though comments on Trump's genitals are "salacious nonsense", for every negative comment made about Trump you can probably find the equivalent AND PROBABLY MORE coming from the right wing?
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 20, 2018, 12:59:56 am
So you would prefer to ignore Trump's own salacious comments about how he loves to grab women by their genitals? tsk tsk

So you support Trump in this issue do you?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 20, 2018, 06:29:07 am
So you support Trump in this issue do you?

You are really pushing yourself for an answer on this !  Good on you.  Don't let you off the hook.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 20, 2018, 06:29:48 am
So you would prefer to ignore Trump's own salacious comments about how he loves to grab women by their genitals? tsk tsk

I think the reference is to her comments on his ****.  Then again, he bragged about his **** on the campaign so this would count as a lie...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 20, 2018, 07:12:10 am
I don't put much stock into what pornstars say about politics...   especially ones who like to get into the salacious details about Trump's dick.  It's on par with the nonsense from Trump.
Trump himself talked about Trump's dick during the primaries.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 20, 2018, 07:23:36 am
Trump himself talked about Trump's dick during the primaries.

I just SAID that !  Wait a second did you BLOCK ME ???
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 20, 2018, 08:17:51 am
I just SAID that !  Wait a second did you BLOCK ME ???
Yes. I'm not even seeing this now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 20, 2018, 11:23:41 am
If Democrats attempt to capitalize on a pornstar's salacious nonsense, even in a passive way, then they will lose again.  And deservedly so.

That idiot Clinton and her "if they go low, we go high" bullshit lost the election. I would have sat Daniels and the other one, the Playmate, there at the debates, along with the women who complained about Trump groping them. I would have raised his adulterous past at every opportunity. I would have raised his bankruptcy and his adultery and thrown it in his face at the debates.

The Republicans like to portray themselves as the party of 'family values' and all the religious right and their sanctimonious lecturing about moral behaviour should have Trump's lack of morality shoved up their asses. Yet Clinton let him constantly bring up her husband's infidelity, as if she were responsible for it by not divorcing him, and never once brought up his repeated serial adultery and all the nasty things he bragged about doing, like trying to seduce the wives of friends (not that he has many of those).

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 20, 2018, 11:25:19 am
So you support Trump in this issue do you?

Why the hell are you replying to yourself, and being stupidly snotty to yourself, too?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 20, 2018, 12:11:07 pm
That idiot Clinton and her "if they go low, we go high" bullshit lost the election. I would have sat Daniels and the other one, the Playmate, there at the debates, along with the women who complained about Trump groping them. I would have raised his adulterous past at every opportunity. I would have raised his bankruptcy and his adultery and thrown it in his face at the debates.

The Republicans like to portray themselves as the party of 'family values' and all the religious right and their sanctimonious lecturing about moral behaviour should have Trump's lack of morality shoved up their asses. Yet Clinton let him constantly bring up her husband's infidelity, as if she were responsible for it by not divorcing him, and never once brought up his repeated serial adultery and all the nasty things he bragged about doing, like trying to seduce the wives of friends (not that he has many of those).

I don't disagree...   for the most part.  But lines shouldn't be crossed....  it just depends where you draw them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 20, 2018, 12:22:41 pm
I think that there are 3 important factors that contributed to Trump winning the Republican primaries and the general election.

1) people are dissatisfied with establishment politicians, and establishment politics. Ted Cruz once said something along the lines of "the Democrats are Lisa Simpson, and we're Bart Simpson", by way of explaining why the regular guy relates to Republicans and not Democrats.   The truth is more that establishment politicians are Lisa Simpson, and Donald Trump is Homer Simpson.  There seems to be a segment of the population that doesn't want nuanced policy or measured responses or anything like that. They want action, and they want it now, and they don't care how dumb it is!  Trump appeals to these people in a way that politicians who are constrained by things like "the law" or "common sense" or "reality" just can't.

"Enough of your Borax, Poindexter! We need action! Take that, you lousy dimension!"
[img height =240]https://i.imgur.com/ucDNSXh.png[/img]


2) anxiety.  Despite all evidence that people are safer than ever, people don't feel safer than ever.  Despite evidence that the economy was doing very well, people continued to have economic anxiety. People see the country changing in ways they don't understand or don't agree with, and they fear for the future.  Trump's message was an appeal directly to those people. Afraid of foreigners? We'll build a wall. Afraid for America's economy? We'll fight the countries that are taking our jobs! Afraid about how society is changing? We'll make things the way they used to be! We'll Make America Great Again.   The phrase "make America great again" is, most of all, an appeal to nostalgic voters who pine for simpler times. (Perhaps the 1980s, when Reagan was president and Donald Trump was at his peak. But Donald Trump can't bring back the 1980s, any more than he can bring back the 1980s version of himself, and voters who hoped otherwise are stuck with 2018 Trump, not 1985 Trump.) 


3) his alpha-man image. (and this is the part where his li'l mushroom becomes relevant.)   There's some segment of the populace that admires strong-man types.  They like Vladimir Putin, or Rodrigo Dutarde, or Recip Ergogan, or maybe even Li'l Kim, and that kind of thing.  Trump himself is a big admirer of these strongman-types, obviously.   How often did we hear American conservatives speak longingly of Vladimir Putin's ability to "get things done" during the Obama years?   "Wouldn't it be great if we had a REAL leader who can get things done, instead of this dainty fancy-pants wimp?"   Some people seem to see Obama's politeness and respectfulness and nuance as weakness, and Trump's aggressiveness and bluntness and rudeness as strength.  Some people seem to have been sold on this idea that Trump is a real alpha-man and that this is how a leader should act.

So I think it's pertinent to point out that Trump's alpha-man image is all fake. It's a mirage. In Helsinki we saw how weak and cowardly Trump looked in the presence of a real alpha-man. We saw that Trump was too chicken to fire Comey in person. We've seen him talk about his very YUUUGE member and his sexual magnetism, but he actually has a little mushroom dick, and his only sexual magnetism is his bank account. Women only get with him to get rich. And I think that dispelling this alpha-man illusion that some of his supporters still buy into is a part of defeating him.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 20, 2018, 02:46:04 pm
Trump reveals yet again just what a stupid **** a-hole he is by suggesting to the Spanish foreign minister that they should build a wall across the Sahara to stop migration, similar to what he wants to do in the US. Believe it or not he suggested that such a wall would be about the same size as what he proposes. OMG! First of all apparently this bozo has never looked at a map. This wall would have to be about a thousand miles longer, and across a number of different countries none of which don't even border on Spain. This twit becomes more of a joke every day. I'm gonna head over to MLWtards and see how the likes of BC defend him on this one.   

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/19/donald-trump-urged-spain-to-build-the-wall-across-the-sahara
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 20, 2018, 05:08:26 pm
Build a wall across the Sahara? Of course!  It's exactly what Trump would think up.

This is, after all, the same guy who told the CIA that they need to make silent bombs, and the same guy who told Gary Cohn that they should solve the national debt by printing money.

"The border with the Sahara cannot be bigger than our border with Mexico." -Donald J. Trump

"Can they hear the bombs coming? We should make the bombs silent so they can’t get away."  -Donald J. Trump.

"Just run the presses — print money."  -Donald J. Trump

"I'm, like, really smart."  -Donald J. Trump


https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a23333592/president-trump-wall-sahara-desert-silent-bombs-print-money/


The man is literally an idiot.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 20, 2018, 05:33:55 pm
He slaps sanctions on Iran and is now ranting at OPEC because the price of oil has gone up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 20, 2018, 06:25:40 pm
Build a wall across the Sahara? Of course!  It's exactly what Trump would think up.

Trump IS an idiot. Still and all, what exactly ARE we going to do if the predictions of global warming come true and it makes life even worse for those in the equatorial or sub-equatorial regions? Apparently fences aren't won't cut it - even today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFZ6k9r2gt8
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 20, 2018, 07:14:05 pm
Trump himself talked about Trump's dick during the primaries.

Now I can't get Biggus Dickus out of my head.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 21, 2018, 10:16:36 am
He slaps sanctions on Iran and is now ranting at OPEC because the price of oil has gone up.
Now that's not fair....

Trump also:
- plans to roll back automobile mileage standards
- ignores global warning, thus curtailing the development of alternatives to fossil fuel.
Both of which will end up increasing demand for oil.

So no, its not just Trump's stupidity over Iran which is driving up the price. Its also Trump's stupidity with regards to environmental issues which is driving up prices.

Frankly, I think this is one of the big failures that politicians (mostly republicans) make... they dislike "green energy" policies, which increases demand for fossil fuels. Who does that help? Helps fund countries like Iran, Venezuela and Saudi Arabia (countries that either don't like the U.S., or have individuals who engage in acts that are "questionable". If the U.S. really wanted to end Islamic terrorism, they don't need to send the military to the middle east to bomb ISIS targets, they need to make nuclear fusion, solar, wind, and other green fuels viable and watch as funding for various terrorist groups dries up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 21, 2018, 10:24:57 am
Driving up demand while restricting supply then bitching because prices go up is just another demonstration of Trump's inability to connect more than two dots at a time. By this time next year, the fallout from all the unintended consequences will have come home to roost.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 21, 2018, 10:33:02 am
Driving up demand while restricting supply then bitching because prices go up is just another demonstration of Trump's inability to connect more than two dots at a time. By this time next year, the fallout from all the unintended consequences will have come home to roost.
I just hope that whatever 'fallout' happens, that it happens sooner than later. I figure a recession is coming (its cyclical, and the economy has been growing for over a decade so its likely to happen soon.) Trump's policies will make any recession worse. (His energy policies, his deregulation, his fiscal policies, his trade policies, all lead to instability and adversely affect the ability of the government to respond to problems.)

In the best case scenario, the 'fallout' comes right before the midterms, when the republicans control both congress and the white house. In the worst case scenario, the economy keeps going until after the 2020 elections (hopefully after Trump has been voted out of office and/or impeached and/or in jail) and a democrat is in office when things finally come crashing down, giving the political right wing more ammunition about how bad democrats are at running the economy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 21, 2018, 02:35:43 pm
Trumpty dumbty must be a little fired up today as he finds out his DAG Rod Rosenstein once discussed engaging cabinet members to invoke the 25th amendment to remove his boss from office because he was unfit. It's never been used yet but I'd say if there was ever a time it would be now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 21, 2018, 03:07:13 pm
Rosenstein denies it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 21, 2018, 03:10:29 pm
Rosenstein denies it.

He does now, but if you notice a nuance, he does so in the present tense which allows the previous comment stand, possibly.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 21, 2018, 03:43:32 pm
He does now, but if you notice a nuance, he does so in the present tense which allows the previous comment stand, possibly.

It doesn't make any difference. After the November election Rosenstein and Sessions are gone. The only question is if Trump or whoever he appoints will then fire Mueller too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 21, 2018, 03:49:37 pm
It doesn't make any difference. After the November election Rosenstein and Sessions are gone. The only question is if Trump or whoever he appoints will then fire Mueller too.

Yes he can go that route to get to Mueller, however he has a file he can release any time he wants and I bet the file, even if not completed, will be fairly thick.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 23, 2018, 09:49:30 am
Trumpty dumbty must be a little fired up today as he finds out his DAG Rod Rosenstein once discussed engaging cabinet members to invoke the 25th amendment to remove his boss from office because he was unfit. It's never been used yet but I'd say if there was ever a time it would be now.

When this story initially broke, I saw a lot of speculation that it was something Giuliani (or another Trump ally) had put into the press to invent a pretext to fire Rosenstein and appoint their own hand-picked replacement who could then end the Mueller probe.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 23, 2018, 11:39:49 am
It doesn't make any difference. After the November election Rosenstein and Sessions are gone. The only question is if Trump or whoever he appoints will then fire Muell

If Democrats get control of the House, it will be even harder to get rid of them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 23, 2018, 11:45:34 am
If Democrats get control of the House, it will be even harder to get rid of them.

No it won't. He can fire them any time he chooses. The house has no say in such things.
What the Democrats having control of the House means is they can block any legislation, and they'd have control of House committees, which means they can launch multiple investigations (backed by subpoenas) of Trump and his government. They can even hire Mueller to continue his investigations, backed by their subpoena power. And they can subpoena Trump to appear before them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 23, 2018, 12:05:30 pm
When this story initially broke, I saw a lot of speculation that it was something Giuliani (or another Trump ally) had put into the press to invent a pretext to fire Rosenstein and appoint their own hand-picked replacement who could then end the Mueller probe.

 -k

I found it a bit odd if I recall correctly that Rosenstein initially said the story was "factually incorrect" or some such whereas recently he has totally denied it. Not sure what to make of that but in any case, Trump has the power to fire Sessions and Rosenstein then he simply has to find a replacement who will fir Mueller. Technically it's possible but politically it might not look so good. Plus simply firing mueller wouldn't cause his file to go away with whatever it has to say to date.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 23, 2018, 01:11:53 pm
When this story initially broke, I saw a lot of speculation that it was something Giuliani (or another Trump ally) had put into the press...

I heard it came from John Barron
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 23, 2018, 01:50:26 pm
No it won't. He can fire them any time he chooses. The house has no say in such things.
What the Democrats having control of the House means is they can block any legislation, and they'd have control of House committees, which means they can launch multiple investigations (backed by subpoenas) of Trump and his government. They can even hire Mueller to continue his investigations, backed by their subpoena power. And they can subpoena Trump to appear before them.

He could have done that any time with fewer consequences. A Democrat controlled House will go a long way toward pulling his teeth. If they get the Senate, even more.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 23, 2018, 02:33:34 pm
Something I do find disturbing (although not particularly surprising) just now as we await to hear testimony from Dr. Ford and Brett Kavanaugh over sexual assault allegations, is that she is having to deal with death threats against her, is considering hiring a security detail to protect her kids on their way to/from school, had her email hacked, etc., etc. Whether her testimony is valid or not, whether the whole issue is just a tempest in a teapot or not, she should be able to go and have her say without having to deal with all that fear from threats. Hopefully they emanate from the typical group of nitwit's who would support a man like Trump and have no potential to carry them out.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 23, 2018, 05:32:02 pm
Something I do find disturbing (although not particularly surprising) just now as we await to hear testimony from Dr. Ford and Brett Kavanaugh over sexual assault allegations, is that she is having to deal with death threats against her, is considering hiring a security detail to protect her kids on their way to/from school, had her email hacked, etc., etc. Whether her testimony is valid or not, whether the whole issue is just a tempest in a teapot or not, she should be able to go and have her say without having to deal with all that fear from threats. Hopefully they emanate from the typical group of nitwit's who would support a man like Trump and have no potential to carry them out.

Certainly it's disturbing.  The home of one of Roy Moore's accusers "mysteriously" burned down.  The house where the victim of the Steubenville football team rapists was also burned down.   People only support victims coming forward if they're accusing nobodies or immigrants. If you're accusing an upstanding Christian man or a football hero you're going to get your house burned down.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 23, 2018, 05:33:31 pm
The Party of Small Government is now studying a plan to have federal agencies monitor social media for "bias".

https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/22/white-house-says-a-draft-executive-order-reviewing-social-media-companies-is-not-official/

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 23, 2018, 05:46:29 pm
The Party of Small Government is now studying a plan to have federal agencies monitor social media for "bias".

https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/22/white-house-says-a-draft-executive-order-reviewing-social-media-companies-is-not-official/

This is going to be a long 4 yrs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 23, 2018, 06:15:38 pm
This is going to be a long 4 yrs.
2 yrs 3 months.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 23, 2018, 06:35:25 pm
2 yrs 3 months.

It has already felt like 4 years, so another 2 years 3 months will feel like another 5 years (or more).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 23, 2018, 06:54:44 pm
It has already felt like 4 years, so another 2 years 3 months will feel like another 5 years (or more).

Yup
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 24, 2018, 09:19:09 am
Build a wall across the Sahara? Of course!  It's exactly what Trump would think up.

This is, after all, the same guy who told the CIA that they need to make silent bombs, and the same guy who told Gary Cohn that they should solve the national debt by printing money.

"The border with the Sahara cannot be bigger than our border with Mexico." -Donald J. Trump

"Can they hear the bombs coming? We should make the bombs silent so they can’t get away."  -Donald J. Trump.

"Just run the presses — print money."  -Donald J. Trump

"I'm, like, really smart."  -Donald J. Trump


https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a23333592/president-trump-wall-sahara-desert-silent-bombs-print-money/


The man is literally an idiot.


 -k
Simple plans from a simpleton president for a simple public. This is not how you address complex problems, but is increasingly what people support. We have more information at our fingertips now than any other age, but less time and motivation to learn. People know just enough to be a danger to themselves and others, but not enough to understand and create effective and reasonable solutions to complex problems. People don't recognize their own limitations and want to believe that anybody can be anything because that's what's been preached to kids for two generations.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 24, 2018, 11:51:10 am
Well apparently Rosenstein was summoned to the WH today for a meeting with the chief of staff. One wonders if this is the start of the process to silence Mueller.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 24, 2018, 12:12:28 pm
Simple plans from a simpleton president for a simple public. This is not how you address complex problems, but is increasingly what people support. We have more information at our fingertips now than any other age, but less time and motivation to learn. People know just enough to be a danger to themselves and others, but not enough to understand and create effective and reasonable solutions to complex problems. People don't recognize their own limitations and want to believe that anybody can be anything because that's what's been preached to kids for two generations.

"For every complex problem there is a solution that is clear, simple and wrong."  HL Mencken.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 24, 2018, 04:47:15 pm
"For every complex problem there is a solution that is clear, simple and wrong."  HL Mencken.

And yet... if the climate changer alarmists are right, we could be facing a massive flood of destitute people headed for our borders in years to come. Maybe a wall might be a good idea.

And for the sanctimonious - Canada has major issues with tens of thousands of migrants crossing our border. What do you think the reaction would be to hundreds of thousands?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 24, 2018, 05:06:15 pm
And yet... if the climate changer alarmists are right, we could be facing a massive flood of destitute people headed for our borders in years to come. Maybe a wall might be a good idea.

And for the sanctimonious - Canada has major issues with tens of thousands of migrants crossing our border. What do you think the reaction would be to hundreds of thousands?

I always suspected you were a Trump supporter. And yes, climate change is happening. And btw, they're scientists not alarmists.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on September 24, 2018, 05:07:00 pm
2 yrs 3 months.
My money is on 6 yrs 2 mos. I don't think the dems will put anyone up that can attract enough centrist support away in the key battle ground states. Especially if the coming stock market crash does not happen before 2020.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 24, 2018, 05:11:37 pm
My money is on 6 yrs 2 mos. I don't think the dems will put anyone up that can attract enough centrist support away in the key battle ground states. Especially if the coming stock market crash does not happen before 2020.

3 states and 70k votes. The GOP is already talking about impeachment after the mid terms so they might have a chance in 2020.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 24, 2018, 05:33:24 pm
And yet... if the climate changer alarmists are right, we could be facing a massive flood of destitute people headed for our borders in years to come. Maybe a wall might be a good idea.

And for the sanctimonious - Canada has major issues with tens of thousands of migrants crossing our border. What do you think the reaction would be to hundreds of thousands?

I don't think climate would qualify you as convention refugee, like how economics isn't a valid reason either.  Climate change happens pretty gradually, I don't see too many people running for their lives in panic because of climate change, and most would be able to move to another part of their country, which would make them "internally displaced persons" not refugees.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 24, 2018, 05:36:08 pm
3 states and 70k votes. The GOP is already talking about impeachment after the mid terms so they might have a chance in 2020.

Do you think the GOP would risk impeaching a GOP?  Could hurt them in 2020.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on September 24, 2018, 05:41:15 pm
I don't think climate would qualify you as convention refugee, like how economics isn't a valid reason either.
When has having a 'valid reason' mattered to the bleeding hearts who believe we should roll out the welcome mat for anyone who shows up with a sob story?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on September 24, 2018, 05:42:57 pm
Do you think the GOP would risk impeaching a GOP?  Could hurt them in 2020.
The GOP base loves Trump. Makes no difference if individual GOP congresscritters have standards their choices are either suck up to Trump, retire or be ousted in a primary.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 24, 2018, 07:36:25 pm
Do you think the GOP would risk impeaching a GOP?  Could hurt them in 2020.

The theory is that impeaching him would actually help them in 2020. He's down to something like 36% support so even the knuckle draggers are getting fed up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 24, 2018, 07:38:45 pm
The GOP base loves Trump. Makes no difference if individual GOP congresscritters have standards their choices are either suck up to Trump, retire or be ousted in a primary.

Actually sucking up to Trump is what could well get them ousted in the primaries.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 24, 2018, 07:39:49 pm
I don't think climate would qualify you as convention refugee,

Oh, well then. We can just say that and they won't come.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 24, 2018, 07:41:05 pm
The theory is that impeaching him would actually help them in 2020. He's down to something like 36% support so even the knuckle draggers are getting fed up.

But that 36% is 70% of the Republican base.  Turn against Trump and they'll turn against you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 24, 2018, 07:48:58 pm
But that 36% is 70% of the Republican base.  Turn against Trump and they'll turn against you.

The constant drop in polls indicates that even Trump's base are losing faith in their icon. The ones with a few brain cells to rub together are looking ahead to 2020
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 24, 2018, 07:58:44 pm
The theory is that impeaching him would actually help them in 2020. He's down to something like 36% support so even the knuckle draggers are getting fed up.

He's at around 41% in an average of polls.  He's recovered a bit from his low of 36% last Dec.  Not very good.  For reference though, Obama was at 45% at this exact time in his first term, and Trump is polling the same as Clinton, Reagan, and Carter at the same point:  https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo

It will be interesting to see what plays out after midterms.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 24, 2018, 08:03:20 pm
He's at around 41% in an average of polls.  He's recovered a bit from his low of 36% last Dec.  Not very good.  For reference though, Obama was at 45% at this exact time in his first term, and Trump is polling the same as Clinton, Reagan, and Carter at the same point:  https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo

It will be interesting to see what plays out after midterms.

Ah no, he dropped to 36% just this month, and among independents he is even lower, around 31%
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 24, 2018, 08:08:47 pm
Ah no, he dropped to 36% just this month, and among independents he is even lower, around 31%

According to what source?  I just provided a link to a non-partisan source that averages and statistically weights pretty much all major polls current as of today.  And none of those polls are as low as 36%.  Or do you mean among the GOP?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 24, 2018, 08:15:36 pm
According to what source?  I just provided a link to a non-partisan source that averages and statistically weights pretty much all major polls current as of today.  And none of those polls are as low as 36%.  Or do you mean among the GOP?

There's a list.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/11/politics/trump-approval-rating-dropped/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 24, 2018, 08:18:59 pm
The 538 is kind of the standard for polls right ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 24, 2018, 08:27:58 pm
The 538 is kind of the standard for polls right ?

Are you looking to start a poll of polls? Choose the one that suits you best.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 24, 2018, 08:31:23 pm
The 538 is kind of the standard for polls right ?

It's the best I know of.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 24, 2018, 08:37:03 pm
Are you looking to start a poll of polls? Choose the one that suits you best.

538 does it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 24, 2018, 08:37:11 pm
There's a list.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/11/politics/trump-approval-rating-dropped/index.html

The 36% is from CNN's single poll, which is a couple weeks old, and is lower than the average of the polls they looked at.  FiveThirtyEight had that poll in its averages when it came out.

Either way, he isn't polling great,
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 24, 2018, 08:48:08 pm
The 36% is from CNN's single poll, which is a couple weeks old, and is lower than the average of the polls they looked at.  FiveThirtyEight had that poll in its averages when it came out.

Either way, he isn't polling great,

I anticipate the "blue wave" materializes and there goes the house and possibly the senate but even with that he will not be impeached so he can be voted out with no pardon from Pence and then indicted.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 24, 2018, 08:59:01 pm
The 36% is from CNN's single poll, which is a couple weeks old, and is lower than the average of the polls they looked at.  FiveThirtyEight had that poll in its averages when it came out.

Either way, he isn't polling great,

He dipped down then bounced back.  The real story is: NOBODY KNOWS WHY.  What did he do to bother his base ?  Was it that he called Jeff Sessions a dumb southerner ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 24, 2018, 09:09:23 pm
He dipped down then bounced back.  The real story is: NOBODY KNOWS WHY.  What did he do to bother his base ?  Was it that he called Jeff Sessions a dumb southerner ?

That could certainly be a part of it. I also note that in the wake of Trump saying to "throw the son's o' **** off the field" with reference to Kaepernack taking a knee, and then he being hired by Nike, the company value rose 6 billion bucks. I wish I saw that coming and bought a bunch of shares.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 25, 2018, 11:38:36 am
I had to laugh at Trump as he was spouting off to the UN in NY about his "huuuge" list of "accomplishments" during his time in office so far. What was interesting is that the whole general assembly laughed along with me. :D

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-un-speech-laugh-video-us-president-history-achieve-administration-general-assembly-a8554506.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 25, 2018, 09:13:02 pm
Trump now says he meant what he said at the UNGA was meant to be funny. How much more embarrasment will this man heap on himself and his country before they throw the SOB in the garbage can where he belongs?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 25, 2018, 09:41:04 pm
The good news is that this person is in charge of redesigning all of their economy and trade deals, fully supported by the salt of the earth themselves. 

So they will soon be diving downwards at a high rate of speed, with no one to blame but themselves.  And immigrants.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 25, 2018, 09:58:06 pm
The good news is that this person is in charge of redesigning all of their economy and trade deals, fully supported by the salt of the earth themselves. 

So they will soon be diving downwards at a high rate of speed, with no one to blame but themselves.  And immigrants.

SALT of the earth, OK that gives me an idea for a little contest here. I'll start with this quickie...Silly Ass Loves Tweets.
Any takers?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 25, 2018, 10:02:50 pm
So Ashamed of Little Thumbs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 25, 2018, 10:48:14 pm
I had to laugh at Trump as he was spouting off to the UN in NY about his "huuuge" list of "accomplishments" during his time in office so far. What was interesting is that the whole general assembly laughed along with me. :D

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-un-speech-laugh-video-us-president-history-achieve-administration-general-assembly-a8554506.html

(https://i.imgur.com/sKCnSnt.gif)

Trump now says he meant what he said at the UNGA was meant to be funny.


(https://i.imgur.com/rgKWNaj.gif)

 -k

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 25, 2018, 11:02:07 pm
"We need a President who isn't a laughing stock to the entire World. We need a truly great leader, a genius at strategy and winning. Respect!"

 -Donald J Trump, August 9 2014.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/498008486551506945


Meanwhile...

Trump meets with Rosenstein on Thursday.   If Trump is going to fire Rosenstein, this might be when it happens. 

Also on Thursday is the senate committee hearing with Kavanaugh and his (first) accuser.  Who knows what really happened... but I do have to say, Kavanaugh sounds like one more privileged kid who did whatever he wanted because he knew he'd never face any consequences.

It can't be hard to find a conservative pro-life judge. I wonder why they're so hung up on getting this particular one onto the Supreme Court.  He refused to answer pointed questions regarding whether he'd met with Trump's lawyers to discuss the Mueller probe...



 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 25, 2018, 11:19:35 pm
"We need a President who isn't a laughing stock to the entire World. We need a truly great leader, a genius at strategy and winning. Respect!"

 -Donald J Trump, August 9 2014.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/498008486551506945


Meanwhile...

Trump meets with Rosenstein on Thursday.   If Trump is going to fire Rosenstein, this might be when it happens. 

Also on Thursday is the senate committee hearing with Kavanaugh and his (first) accuser.  Who knows what really happened... but I do have to say, Kavanaugh sounds like one more privileged kid who did whatever he wanted because he knew he'd never face any consequences.

It can't be hard to find a conservative pro-life judge. I wonder why they're so hung up on getting this particular one onto the Supreme Court.  He refused to answer pointed questions regarding whether he'd met with Trump's lawyers to discuss the Mueller probe...



 -k

Yep I don't recall Obama ever invoking laughter at himself whenever he spoke to crowds wherever, unless he invited it. He actually did have a sense of humor. Trump certainly achieved it though as we have seen.
Trump wants Kavanaugh to turn the SC a hard right and to get Mueller gone. Good for Ford to have the strength to step up.We shall see soon.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 25, 2018, 11:31:27 pm
Lisa Murkowski might vote no-- she doesn't seem pleased with how this thing is being handled, and suggests that maybe an investigation is the way to go.

Susan Collins talks a good game but doesn't have any spine.

Jeff Flake and Bob Corker are potentially wildcards.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 26, 2018, 01:03:47 am
Anybody seen how the late night shows have had fun playing with Trump's laughing crowd at the UN?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 26, 2018, 05:56:28 am
Anybody seen how the late night shows have had fun playing with Trump's laughing crowd at the UN?

I'd be happy enough if you just described it here.

Although the US president being laughed at in derision by world leaders makes sense to me, it doesn't make me happy.  I'm on my longest streak of "sick of US news, not reading it" since 2016.  I still know the daily headlines but I'm not currently following it closely.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 26, 2018, 10:36:08 am
I had to laugh at Trump as he was spouting off to the UN in NY about his "huuuge" list of "accomplishments" during his time in office so far. What was interesting is that the whole general assembly laughed along with me. :D
Now that's not fair.

Maybe the general assembly was laughing at thought of Trump's small mushroom-shaped **** instead.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 26, 2018, 10:50:00 am
He's at around 41% in an average of polls.  He's recovered a bit from his low of 36% last Dec.  Not very good.  For reference though, Obama was at 45% at this exact time in his first term, and Trump is polling the same as Clinton, Reagan, and Carter at the same point:  https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo
It may be True that, Obama and Reagan both had approval ratings below 50% at this time. But it should be noted that both those presidents had recessions that they had to deal with early in their term which may have contributed to the lower approval ratings.

On the other hand, Trump's approval rating has never broken 50%, at a time when the economy is relatively strong (not necessarily due to anything Trump did, since the economy was already growing under Obama, but most voters don't really notice things like that.) If and when the economy DOES start to falter, Trump won't have any accomplishments to fall back on.


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 26, 2018, 11:01:37 am
Also on Thursday is the senate committee hearing with Kavanaugh and his (first) accuser.
...
 I wonder why they're so hung up on getting this particular one onto the Supreme Court.
I can think of a few reasons:

- They (and their supporters) have invested a lot of time and effort in defending Kavanaugh and/or apologize for his actions. For them to turn around and replace him with someone less rapey might make some supporters question "why did we waste time supporting Kavanaugh if the politicians won't follow through". This might make them more likely to sit out in future elections. They have to keep their voter base energized.

- They may realize that the whole supreme court issue is toxic to potential moderate voters (who don't want Roe v. Wade overturned). Replacing Kavanaugh with someone else would mean the nomination process would have more of an impact on the midterms. (Even if Kavanaugh's replacement didn't have the whole rapey thing going, voters would still be reminded every time the confirmation hearings were mentioned on TV.) So, they may be thinking "cram through his appointment, and we'll have a few extra weeks to try to divert people's attention prior to the midterms".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 26, 2018, 11:07:25 am
 If and when the economy DOES start to falter, Trump won't have any accomplishments to fall back on.
[/quote]


Which may explain the laughter at the UNGA. And I'm just hearing there is now a third woman accusing Kavanaugh of sexual misconduct.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 26, 2018, 11:23:05 am
If they lose control of Congress in the mid terms, their ability to ram through appointments will go up in smoke. The Republicans have turned SCOTUS appointments into a complete partisan process and they will be hung by their own petard. It's panic as much as anything and you wonder how they can be so cavalier about a lifetime appointment. Thankfully, we had the good sense to make them retire at 75.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 26, 2018, 03:44:56 pm
If they lose control of Congress in the mid terms, their ability to ram through appointments will go up in smoke.
Depends on whether they win both the senate and the house, or just the house of representatives.

In the U.S., only the senate votes to confirm judicial nominees and cabinet ministers.

While the democrats do have a good chance to with the house (thanks to favorable polling numbers), taking the Senate is a long shot. (Senators server for 6 years, and right now there are more seats held by the Democrats that might change hands than seats held by Republicans.

If the democrats do take the house, they can still cause a lot of problems for Trump, by:
- Blocking unfavorable legislation (e.g. the tax bill might never have passed if democrats held the house)
- Actually allowing investigations (such as the one into Russian election interference) to proceed. (Rather than have the Nunes-lead farce that we've seen so far.)


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 26, 2018, 03:52:47 pm
I think the house is going Dem for sure and there are enough seats in the senate that are statistically tied so that they could take that side of the aile as well as long as dem voters get out to the polls. At least in mid terms the EC can't thwart the popular vote.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 26, 2018, 04:20:03 pm
Trump is yet again making a complete and utter **** **** of himself yet again in this press briefing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 26, 2018, 05:50:57 pm
Anybody seen how the late night shows have had fun playing with Trump's laughing crowd at the UN?

I'm actually getting tired of Colbert. Half his damn routine is now video of Trump speaking. I turn the channel whenever that moron speaks. I don't need to see him on the late night talk shows.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 26, 2018, 05:57:55 pm
I'm actually getting tired of Colbert. Half his damn routine is now video of Trump speaking.

I guess when you are offered a treasure trove of material, it is hard to pass it by. Colbert still has some excellent guests that have nothing to do with Washington.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 26, 2018, 06:16:40 pm
And I'm just hearing there is now a third woman accusing Kavanaugh of sexual misconduct.

Make that four. Apparently there was an anonymous complaint sent to Republican Sen. Cory Gardner of Colorado. In 1998, Brett Kavanaugh allegedly shoved her friend up against the wall when exiting a bar very aggressively and sexually. There are supposedly 4 witnesses to the attack.

The other 3 are:

Christine Blasey Ford
Deborah Ramirez
and
Julie Swetnick (Kavanaugh was claimed to be present for a gang ****, but not named as an assailant).

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 26, 2018, 09:00:23 pm
I guess when you are offered a treasure trove of material, it is hard to pass it by. Colbert still has some excellent guests that have nothing to do with Washington.

argus doesn't like humor that belittles conservatives I'd guess. Most of us get a giggle though.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 26, 2018, 09:02:17 pm
Make that four. Apparently there was an anonymous complaint sent to Republican Sen. Cory Gardner of Colorado. In 1998, Brett Kavanaugh allegedly shoved her friend up against the wall when exiting a bar very aggressively and sexually. There are supposedly 4 witnesses to the attack.

The other 3 are:

Christine Blasey Ford
Deborah Ramirez
and
Julie Swetnick (Kavanaugh was claimed to be present for a gang ****, but not named as an assailant).

I'm planning to get up in time to listen to the hearings tomorrow. Should be interesting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 26, 2018, 09:06:39 pm
Make that four. Apparently there was an anonymous complaint sent to Republican Sen. Cory Gardner of Colorado. In 1998, Brett Kavanaugh allegedly shoved her friend up against the wall when exiting a bar very aggressively and sexually. There are supposedly 4 witnesses to the attack.

The other 3 are:

Christine Blasey Ford
Deborah Ramirez
and
Julie Swetnick (Kavanaugh was claimed to be present for a gang ****, but not named as an assailant).

I'll see your four and raise ya one. I am just hearing there is yet another anonymous accuser.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 26, 2018, 09:23:55 pm
Didn't hear about the fifth, but Swetnick's ex-boyfriend filed a restraining order against her in 2001. According to Avanetti, he was using her resume to find jobs and the case was dismissed. No shortage of drama here.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 26, 2018, 09:35:18 pm
Didn't hear about the fifth, but Swetnick's ex-boyfriend filed a restraining order against her in 2001. According to Avanetti, he was using her resume to find jobs and the case was dismissed. No shortage of drama here.

Yes indeed, no shortage of drama. I venture a guess there are those who would like to see less drama and maybe at least a little progress. Call me a wishful thinker.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 26, 2018, 10:22:35 pm
Ok, just heard the fifth was another anonymous allegation about an assault that happened on a boat in 1985 in Rhode Island. This one also involved both the caped Kavanagh and his partner in crime Mark. Apparently some guy wrote a letter to a Senator friend about his friend that this happened to, so I would say that is quasi anonymous.

Sounds like FBI investigation should be launched, too many leads to drop.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 26, 2018, 10:29:32 pm
Ok, just heard the fifth was another anonymous allegation about an assault that happened on a boat in 1985 in Rhode Island. This one also involved both the caped Kavanagh and his partner in crime Mark. Apparently some guy wrote a letter to a Senator friend about his friend that this happened to, so I would say that is quasi anonymous.

Sounds like FBI investigation should be launched, too many leads to drop.

I have my coffee pot filled and programmed to beep and get me ready for the hearings tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 26, 2018, 11:18:23 pm
Mark Judge's former girlfriend Elisabeth Rasor has informed the judiciary committee that Judge confessed to her that he'd been part of a group having sex with a drunk girl at one of these parties.  While Kavanaugh is not directly accused of anything by Rasor, it does give some insight into the kind of parties these bros attended and casts further doubt on Kavanaugh's choir-boy act.  If your high-school was like the ones I went to, you heard whispers about which parties you should avoid... and it sounds like Judge and Kavanaugh were the guys who hosted the kind of parties that people whispered about.


Kavanaugh's earlier testimony, under oath, shows that he has a habit of forgetting information that might be inconvenient to his career aspirations.  I think there's already plenty of reason to be skeptical about his testimony regarding these parties he attended in high school and college. 

He doesn't seem to have the kind of character you'd hope for in a guy who'll be expected to sit on the Supreme Court for the next 30 years.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 27, 2018, 08:21:41 am
Avenatti released an affidavit from one of the accusers. The **** she says happened is inconceivably vile.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 27, 2018, 08:30:09 am
I hope this hasn’t brought out any crazies with fake stories. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 27, 2018, 09:04:35 am
Dr. Ford is in the hearing room, ready to speak.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 27, 2018, 09:10:45 am
Grasley is blaming the Democrats, and proclaiming he is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 27, 2018, 09:14:12 am
Grasley is almost a big scumbag as Trump, he is beginning the entire process by saying that she is a liar. Who elects these lowlifes. Let her testify and stop it with the partisan bullshit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 27, 2018, 11:43:23 am
This afternoon will be interesting, but I doubt Kavanaugh nomination will be confirmed. Everything this morning was about Republicans trying to shift blame to Democrats, even the goal of the hired prosecutor (Rachael Mitchell) was working towards that. Several of the Democrats however were focused on their own partisan agenda as well, so they don't get a pass.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 27, 2018, 12:04:44 pm
I guess when you are offered a treasure trove of material, it is hard to pass it by. Colbert still has some excellent guests that have nothing to do with Washington.

I don't have a problem with him mocking Trump. I have a problem with having to view Trump speaking again and again and again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 27, 2018, 12:08:47 pm
He doesn't seem to have the kind of character you'd hope for in a guy who'll be expected to sit on the Supreme Court for the next 30 years.

I don't think you understand the requirements for the job.
Think of him in terms of the Republicans' respect for the bible. They basically ignore everything in it and reduce it to one page on which is written "Thou shalt not allow abortions" and 'thou shalt not be a queer". This is the extent of Republican religious beliefs and also the entirety of the purpose of supreme court judges in their eyes - to ban abortion and keep weirdos out of the ladies rooms. If the judge likes to grope women from time to time without their consent, well hey, so does the President. So no big deal.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 27, 2018, 01:51:29 pm
I don't get Lindsay Graham's point. Is he trying to convince us that the Republicans should put a sex offender on the bench because the Democrats have been political games? Regardless if they have or not, is that reason to go ahead.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2018, 01:57:47 pm
We shall soon get to hear from Kavanaugh and assess his credibility. I'd say he is facing an uphill battle.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 27, 2018, 02:16:26 pm
Kavanagh is on the war path.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 27, 2018, 03:16:53 pm
That was a long opening statement. He attacked the Democrats for the situation, sounding like he is playing to the conspiracy theorists.

He did however shut down Dianne Feinstein quite effectively. So far she is the only Democrat to ask him any questions.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 27, 2018, 03:45:31 pm
Senator Durbin is the bad cop. Kavanaugh is looking to Grassley for cover.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 27, 2018, 05:03:34 pm
I honestly don't understand how anyone sane would be interested in watching this.

And it pisses me off that when I turn on the TV and flick through the all-news channels the CANADIAN stations are covering this wall-to-wall with breathless excitement. Has no one told them the US supreme court is in another country? Who gives a **** anyway? I'd love to sit on the CRTC panel where the heads of these networks have to go to renew their license and demand to know why they're of any value given most of what they broadcast is American sourced anyway.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2018, 05:13:18 pm
I honestly don't understand how anyone sane would be interested in watching this.

And it pisses me off that when I turn on the TV and flick through the all-news channels the CANADIAN stations are covering this wall-to-wall with breathless excitement. Has no one told them the US supreme court is in another country? Who gives a **** anyway? I'd love to sit on the CRTC panel where the heads of these networks have to go to renew their license and demand to know why they're of any value given most of what they broadcast is American sourced anyway.

So if you sat on the CRTC I guess we'd get to watch wall to wall "Duck Dynasty"?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 27, 2018, 05:13:52 pm
You look at US politics and politicians and it is some kind of insane miracle the founding fathers created such incredibly wonderful institutions (minus slavery), the Declaration of Independence etc.  It wouldn't happen today.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 27, 2018, 05:21:05 pm
And it pisses me off that when I turn on the TV and flick through the all-news channels the CANADIAN stations are covering this wall-to-wall with breathless excitement.

That is capitalism for you. In the Marxist world we would not have a 500 channel cable with multiple repeats of the same 12 channels of content, but only 12 channels.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 27, 2018, 05:47:18 pm
Kavanagh certainly gave a compelling testimony as well. His biggest problem was his failure to demand a proper investigation, looking for cover from the Republicans (Grassley).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 27, 2018, 06:10:22 pm
That is capitalism for you. In the Marxist world we would not have a 500 channel cable with multiple repeats of the same 12 channels of content, but only 12 channels.

Capitalism would allow individuals to start their own stations to compete with these ones, but since everything is tightly controlled by the government that's not possible. We have a non-competitive oligarchy which satisfies none of their customers. I had to watch RT and Al Jazeera instead.

btw, Al Jazeera is eons ahead of RT in terms of quality and believability.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2018, 08:49:36 pm
I'm wondering if Kavanaugh's testimony will help or hinder beer sales.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 27, 2018, 10:53:43 pm
I was watching the testimony, and not paying attention to what else happened in the world. Found out about Elon Musk being charged by the SEC, and getting back to American politics: apparently Senator Orrin Hatch was interviewed over the lunch break. He was asked if he found Dr. Ford credible, to which he replied: “I don’t think she’s uncredible. I think she an attractive, good witness” he said. Asked to clarify on “attractive,” he responded “In other words, she’s pleasing.

Where do they dig up these guys?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2018, 11:07:22 pm
I was watching the testimony, and not paying attention to what else happened in the world. Found out about Elon Musk being charged by the SEC, and getting back to American politics: apparently Senator Orrin Hatch was interviewed over the lunch break. He was asked if he found Dr. Ford credible, to which he replied: “I don’t think she’s uncredible. I think she an attractive, good witness” he said. Asked to clarify on “attractive,” he responded “In other words, she’s pleasing.

Where do they dig up these guys?

The swamp?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 28, 2018, 02:16:04 am
Quote
**** is having sex with a woman while she screams for help. No scream, no **** according to Deuteronomy 22:23-24. [Christine Blasey] Ford says Kavanaugh held his hand over her mouth so did she scream for help when his hand was elsewhere? After all, it was in a bedroom of a house; surely, one of the other 4 teens could have heard him scream when she bit his hand.

    Did she bite his hand? Poke him in the eye? Women know instinctively how to protect their honor: screaming, shouting, slapping, spitting, slugging, and stabbing with a finger, pencil, or hat pin. Since she did not cry out or stab him, I will not believe her without a film of the event.

-Christian commentator Don Boys

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2018/09/christian-leader-uses-bible-to-defend-kavanaugh-no-scream-no-****/


These people are vermin. Jesus sounds like a cool guy, but I can't stand his **** fan-club.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on September 28, 2018, 03:49:46 am
These people are vermin. Jesus sounds like a cool guy, but I can't stand his **** fan-club.
To be fair, inventing absurd rationalizations to allow one to believe what one wants to believe is not unique to the Jesus fan club (remember Whoopi's its 'not **** ****'?).

It is also worth noting that human memory is fallible and people's recollections of a long ago events are often altered by their life experience. This means we could be facing a situation where Ford is telling the absolute truth as she remembers it except her "truth" is a fiction. The same statement is true for Kavanaugh's denials. Without corroborating evidence we will never know what actually happened on that day.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 28, 2018, 06:15:23 am
I resent the dominant role that narrative has in governance these days, and especially the American style of controversy of every sort that forces its way into our public dialogue.  I would feel better if I felt that we learned something from these engagements but I don't see that.

Can't wait for this all to stop, and for the overarching trend of reality TV in politics to stop.  I do think it will.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 28, 2018, 08:14:07 am
Well, I caught snippets of him on TV, quite against my will, and often on the Late shows. I wasn't impressed. Without any regard to accusations against him I thought he demonstrated a lack of self control, was overly emotional, bitter, angry, partisan and evasive. Such a person should not be on the supreme court.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on September 28, 2018, 10:24:37 am
Well, I caught snippets of him on TV, quite against my will, and often on the Late shows. I wasn't impressed. Without any regard to accusations against him I thought he demonstrated a lack of self control, was overly emotional, bitter, angry, partisan and evasive. Such a person should not be on the supreme court.

Maybe men are just too emotional to be in the Supreme Court?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 28, 2018, 11:19:48 am
Quote from: TimG link=topic=7.msg32914#msg32914 Without corroborating evidence we will never know what actually happened on that day.
[/quote

Which is why there needs to be a proper investigation. There was a lot of new information yesterday that could help, like her description of the house. Get her to elaborate more, and it might help others recognize the house and then put together the pieces of the story. Question the other witnesses, especially but not exclusively Mark Judge. Bring in those dingbats that say they were the ones that attacked her and question them. If they are not the ones, then charge them with hampering the investigation. Perhaps they assaulted someone else in the 80's, find out who and charge them with that crime. Put in some effort, and stop deflecting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 28, 2018, 11:59:29 am
Maybe men are just too emotional to be in the Supreme Court?


After listening to both of them, there isn't much question in my mind who was emotionally better suited to be a judge, and it wasn't Kavanaugh.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 28, 2018, 04:32:19 pm
I honestly don't understand how anyone sane would be interested in watching this.
Its newsworthy. In 20 years people will be talking about what it was like watching the Kavanaugh hearings, much the same way they watch watergate unfold
Quote
And it pisses me off that when I turn on the TV and flick through the all-news channels the CANADIAN stations are covering this wall-to-wall with breathless excitement. Has no one told them the US supreme court is in another country?
What happens in the U.S. can have an impact on what happens in Canada.

News people broadcast what people are interested in (and thus what might bring in ratings.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 28, 2018, 04:39:30 pm
So, the committee voted 11-10 (along party lines) to send the confirmation to the Senate.

Republican senator Jeff Flake has demanded that before he votes he wants an FBI investigation, and it looks like Trump has agreed. So there will be a 1 week delay before the full senate vote to give time for the FBI to investigate any current "credible allegations".

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/28/politics/kavanaugh-senate-judiciary-vote/index.html

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 28, 2018, 06:44:30 pm
Its newsworthy. In 20 years people will be talking about what it was like watching the Kavanaugh hearings, much the same way they watch watergate unfoldWhat happens in the U.S. can have an impact on what happens in Canada.

Bullshit. Does anyone talk about their experience watching the Clarence Thomas hearings? Nope. As for it impacting Canada - this does not. In any way.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 28, 2018, 07:42:07 pm
Bullshit. Does anyone talk about their experience watching the Clarence Thomas hearings? Nope. As for it impacting Canada - this does not. In any way.

Not surprising that misogyny would go hand in hand with xenophobia.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on September 28, 2018, 09:05:56 pm
Bullshit. Does anyone talk about their experience watching the Clarence Thomas hearings? Nope. As for it impacting Canada - this does not. In any way.
It is interesting because Canadians have an stake in congressional power dynamics.
Seeing Trump and the GOP being forced to backed down is a reason to be optimistic about the the future. Seeing them succeed is reason to be be pessimistic.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 28, 2018, 11:13:28 pm
Senator Harris destroyed Kavanaugh in her questions yet again.  Got him to show he will not volunteer to be a part of an FBI investigation against the accusations.  He continually dodge the questions.

Kavanaugh is a disgusting and dangerous piece of human ****.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 29, 2018, 06:46:24 am
Is he ?

Do we really know these people ?

The issues behind this story are real but is the story itself real ?  Or just a staged re-enactment to activate on current societal triggers ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 29, 2018, 09:11:45 am
If Kavanaugh is in fact being victimized, you would think a thorough FBI investigation would be in his best interest.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 29, 2018, 09:21:56 am
Not surprising that misogyny would go hand in hand with xenophobia.

You really are pathetic,
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 29, 2018, 09:25:46 am
It is interesting because Canadians have an stake in congressional power dynamics.
Seeing Trump and the GOP being forced to backed down is a reason to be optimistic about the the future. Seeing them succeed is reason to be be pessimistic.

Oh get serious. First, if Mr. Angryman doesn't get on the SC they'll simply appoint another very conservative judge. It's not going to make any difference in that regard to Canada.

As for backing down - again, get serious. To properly investigate all this, with multiple stories going back decades, they'd need months. They have a week. This is not a real investigation. All they're going to come back with is that he said this and she said that. It will make no difference, and produce no new information, but it will give some cover to a few Republican senators. Then the parties will vote along partisan lines.

Trying to flip through the news this AM over coffee. Nothing but Kavanaugh on the CBC and CTV. Basically their entire newscasts devoted to this. Had to watch BBC, Al Jazeera, Euronews and DT instead. Too bad we don't have any all-news channels devoted to Canadian news.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 29, 2018, 09:29:00 am
Is he ?

Do we really know these people ?

I think we know this guy should not be a judge, much less on the SC. And that doesn't come from her testimony but his. I don't think we've ever seen a supreme court nominee as flippant, sarcastic, insulting and nasty towards opposition senators in living memory. He evoked conspiracy theories without evidence, interrupted senators, and cried. This is the temperament of a supreme court judge!? Is there anyone who believes this guy will be even the least bit neutral in any sort of case where Democrats or Democratic interests are pitted against Republicans?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 29, 2018, 09:35:09 am
I haven't been paying much attention to this matter but from your words, it sounds like he's probably unfit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 29, 2018, 11:26:43 am
You really are  pathetic,

Naw, but I do call a spade a spade when I see it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 29, 2018, 11:29:25 am
Naw, but I do call a spade a spade when I see it.

That's a trait I embrace.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 29, 2018, 11:35:37 am
That's a trait I embrace. Which is why I don't hesitate to point out what a moron I think you are.

I'll leave ya to stew.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 29, 2018, 12:30:03 pm
Is he ?

Do we really know these people ?

The issues behind this story are real but is the story itself real ?  Or just a staged re-enactment to activate on current societal triggers ?

This is all we need to know about the man.  He won't say if we he's discussed the Mueller investigation with anyone at Trump's lawyer's law firm.  He also keeps dodging the question on if he's willing to have the FBI do an investigation on the sexual assault accusations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bX8dcZqOPM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIxhGh8Y6Fc
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 29, 2018, 12:50:39 pm
Perhaps if they vote him in, which I suspect they will, and then the dems take over the house in November, there could be more than one impeachment proceeding under consideration.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 29, 2018, 01:14:07 pm
I think we know this guy should not be a judge, much less on the SC. And that doesn't come from her testimony but his. I don't think we've ever seen a supreme court nominee as flippant, sarcastic, insulting and nasty towards opposition senators in living memory. He evoked conspiracy theories without evidence, interrupted senators, and cried. This is the temperament of a supreme court judge!? Is there anyone who believes this guy will be even the least bit neutral in any sort of case where Democrats or Democratic interests are pitted against Republicans?

I didn't watch any of the testimony-- purposefully avoided it, in fact--  but in addition to what you mention, much of his testimony in the past little while has been demonstrably not honest.

This article focuses on work that Kavanaugh did during the G.W. Bush Administration in trying to get a judge with a questionable civil rights record confirmed.  Kavanaugh had denied doing any work in getting this particular judge confirmed, but the email trail shows that's not true.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/12/kavanaugh-emails-controversial-nomination-817798

This article talks about another confirmation that Kavanaugh denied having worked on but was actually involved with.
https://www.vox.com/2018/9/6/17828378/brett-kavanaugh-confirmation-perjury-pryor

These articles focus on Kavanaugh's time working for Judge Alex Kozinski, a judge who was notorious for sexual harrassment.  Kavanaugh was repeatedly asked about his time working for Kozinski, and replied with the same "I can't recall" response to all the questions.  As these articles explain, it would be almost impossible for Kavanaugh to have not witnessed the behavior he was asked about, and extremely unlikely that he didn't received the raunchy jokes that Kozinski emailed to all the other clerks.
https://theintercept.com/2018/09/20/alex-kozinski-brett-kavanaugh-judge-9th-circuit/
https://thinkprogress.org/brett-kavanaugh-has-a-pattern-of-implausible-claims-about-sexual-misconduct-7613d60b8ab7/
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/09/kavanaugh-kozinski-gag-list-emails-senate-hearings.html


Kavanaugh was also involved in a scam in which a senate staffer stole private Democrat documents and gave them to Republicans on an ongoing basis. This article talks about Kavanaugh's implausable response to that scandal:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/09/20/brett-kavanaughs-unlikely-story-about-democrats-stolen-documents/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ade0fb66f1d7

Numerous people who went to school with Kavanaugh at Yale have come forward to call the interview he gave Fox last week dishonest.  Several people who knew him at the time say that his denial of heavy drinking during college is simply not true. I of all people can not condemn someone for drinking heavily when they were younger.  But lying about it is highly problematic.
https://www.businessinsider.com/brett-kavanaugh-fox-news-interview-yale-classmate-2018-9
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2018/09/26/kavanaughs-choir-boy-image-on-fox-interview-rankles-former-yale-classmates.html


It's a recurring pattern that has turned up again and again in response to questioning in the past month.  Every time he's confronted with questions that are inconvenient, he either "can't recall" or gives an excuse that defies credibility or an answer that's not actually true.  That alone ought to be enough to disqualify him from the Supreme Court.  He's simply not an honest man.  Being a dishonest person should in itself be disqualifying, regardless of whether he did or didn't actually harass or assault these women.

(And given his pattern of dishonesty, how credible are his denials on that matter?)


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 29, 2018, 01:25:17 pm
Quite a move by Jeff Flake yesterday.   I saw people were furious when he'd voted yes in the judiciary committee to bring Kavanaugh to a vote in the Senate.  But once it was out of committee and in front of the Senate, that gave Flake and Murkowski all the leverage to force Trump and McConnell to call an FBI investigation. Their two votes are all it would take to sink Kavanaugh, so saying that they couldn't vote yes without an investigation gave Trump no choice.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 29, 2018, 01:30:37 pm
I wouldn't doubt the elevator confrontation had an effect on Flake. How could it not?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 29, 2018, 02:27:05 pm
I'm sure that was very uncomfortable for him, but I believe he had already made up his mind before then.  He'd been having close discussions with Lisa Murkowski before the committee vote.

Thumbs up to Flake and Murkowski... thumbs down to Susan Collins, who is now saying positive things about the idea of an FBI investigation, even though she did nothing to actually help make it happen.   Collins likes to pretend that she stands up for women, but she didn't. She supports the investigation now that it's already happening, but until Murkowski and Flake made it happen, she was quiet as a mouse.  Once it gets to the senate vote, you can be sure that Collins will be hoping that there are enough "yes" votes on Kavanaugh so that she can vote "no" without blocking the confirmation.   She won't go against the will of the party, but you know she'd love to have the chance to vote No so that she doesn't lose street-cred with the gullible blue-state women who still think she's got their back.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 29, 2018, 08:42:49 pm
Trump succeeds in making a complete **** of himself yet again during this latest rally in Wheeling WVA. I could only stand to listen to so much but of his richer comments was to refer to the democratic party as "the party of crime". Now that's a little rich coming from the jowls of an admitted sex offender with how many other similar charges pending! Of course in that forum he was surrounded by knuckle dragging rednecks who either don't get it, or just don't care.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 30, 2018, 08:17:16 am
I didn't watch any of the testimony-- purposefully avoided it, in fact-- 

Yep.  Me too and I'm proud of that also.

This is all we need to know about the man.  He won't say if we he's discussed the Mueller investigation with anyone at Trump's lawyer's law firm.  He also keeps dodging the question on if he's willing to have the FBI do an investigation on the sexual assault accusations.

 

So because I like you PG, I watched 1 minute.  Seems like he's been set up specifically to get Trump out of his Russia jam. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 30, 2018, 08:19:20 am
The more this administration and their friends push, the less they look like ordinary Americans.  A Democratic Trump could swing the US pretty far left in a short time, I'm convinced.  They would have to leave identity politics behind though.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 30, 2018, 08:55:18 am
The more this administration and their friends push, the less they look like ordinary Americans.  A Democratic Trump could swing the US pretty far left in a short time, I'm convinced.  They would have to leave identity politics behind though.

Unfortunately, that's not likely. I think the backlash against Trump would allow for a lot further leftward movement if its in sensible directions, like more gun control and national health care. But if it instead pushes for identity politics and mass immigration, which is what looks to be happening based on a number of early nomination fights, there'll likely be a reverse backlash four years later.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 30, 2018, 09:03:19 am
Unfortunately, that's not likely. I think the backlash against Trump would allow for a lot further leftward movement if its in sensible directions, like more gun control and national health care. But if it instead pushes for identity politics and mass immigration, which is what looks to be happening based on a number of early nomination fights, there'll likely be a reverse backlash four years later.

Yes but nothing succeeds like success. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 30, 2018, 09:19:13 am
Yes but nothing succeeds like success.

If you look at the situation in the US right now, it's economy, for example, full employment, lack of wars, that IS success. None of that has stopped people hating Trump. And I assure you they would hate Elizabeth Warren's constant lecturing and browbeating just as bad just as quickly.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/us_politics/2018/09/time_s_up_elizabeth_warren_eyeing_white_house
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 30, 2018, 09:51:45 am
If you look at the situation in the US right now, it's economy, for example, full employment, lack of wars, that IS success. None of that has stopped people hating Trump. And I assure you they would hate Elizabeth Warren's constant lecturing and browbeating just as bad just as quickly.
 

Deficit, overspending on military is the underside of that.  I would also say disparity and you seem to agree with that to a degree.  It's telling that a conservative actually things the US is going too far in their... well... I don't even want to call it conservatism.

But I also agree that identity politics doesn't need to be front & centre and is not a winner nor a unifier. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on September 30, 2018, 11:19:33 am
If you look at the situation in the US right now, it's economy, for example, full employment, lack of wars, that IS success. None of that has stopped people hating Trump.

Mostly because it isn't his doing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 30, 2018, 11:32:00 am
Mostly because it isn't his doing.

True. Trump was handed an economy which was a hell of a lot healthier after two terms of Obama than the latter was handed when he took office. So far where I see Trump heading economically is down the road to trade wars and huge deficit/debt. But of course don't forget that he has also accomplished more in a year and a half than any other administration in history.  :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 30, 2018, 01:09:30 pm
Deficit, overspending on military is the underside of that.

In fact, to show you how far the Republicans have deviated from what was traditional conservatism in the US they show little care or interest in the deficit, and they refused to compromise with the Democrats a few years back to avoid a huge cut to military spending. All they seem to really care about is cutting taxes for their paymasters and using abortion to garner favourable views from the religious right.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on September 30, 2018, 01:10:06 pm
Mostly because it isn't his doing.

Doesn't stop him from benefiting from it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 30, 2018, 02:53:39 pm
Isn't it reassuring to now know that Trump has told the world that he and his buddy Fat Kim have "fallen in love", and wrote each other "beautiful letters". Don't worry about those sill NASA sat. photos of Rocket Man continuing to build nukes. That's all just the Dems and the fake news. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on October 01, 2018, 06:29:24 am
Speaking about "fake" news:

1-Did anyone really believe NAFTA would not be agreed to given the mid term elections coming up and the back-lash in the US states doing business in Canada had it not been signed prior to the mid-terms?

2-Did anyone really believe Canada would not allow more dairy to come in as long as our existing supply chain system was left alone? (Canada gave the US exactly what it gave the EU and everyone else in trade agreements re. dairy)

3-This Dispute Resolution clause where the US wanted its own courts to rule on trade disputes not independent tribunal members was that a genuine issue or just a smoke screen?

I think Trudeau walks looking like he protected culture, dairy (he offered an additional 3.5% access) and the dispute resolution mechanism and Trump can now say how he bullied his way to a better deal and bullying and ugly America me first you second is a great way to do business while in reality both sides who really understood the issues in spite of him and Trudeau, got their deal done because of hard work on other issues the press has no clue about and does not cover.

What disturbs me and I don't know if it can specifically be aimed at Trudeau but is an inherent result of our allowing ourselves to be too dependent on US trade is the way Trump could go on t.v. and sling dairy about as a major abuse issue when it was in fact a very minor trade issue as a smoke screen to detract from the punitive abusive anti free trade tarrifs the US has slapped on Canada for aluminium and streel defining us as a security risk. That and his engaging in punitive abusie anti free trade retaliatory tarrifs on Bombardier to prevent free trade on passenger jets.

In the long run we are an economic captive colony of the US and we need to diversify. The current President shows just how vulnerable we are to the whims of any one President and a US protectionist congress.

I think looking to the Trans Pacific, the United Kingdom and the EU are now a pressing need. We have entered into trade agreements with Europe and the Transpacific, soon we will engage in a free trade deal with the UK once it removes itself from the EU, and I believe more free trade agreements with South and Central American states will come.

Its the only solution. Trading with the US (80%) and China (10%) of the time is not good business for us.

This is not specific to partisan politics.  The fact we are so dependent on the US and they could screw us on Bombardier, aluminum is a result of this dependence.

I don't see the Conservatives who I support federally over Trudeau having been able to do anything different.

I think on this issue the current government did their best with the cards they have and its up to all Canadians of all partisan views to understand we now can not depend on any one nation ever again.

In regards to Donald Trump he may very well have done us a favour showing just how dependent we are and what negative consequences that can bring.

That said the US Canada relationship is far bigger than Trump and will prevail long after Trump and his hateful, ugly style of politics passes into the sunset. I doubt he is influencing and inspiring any future Trumpets. His legacy is just plain ugly.

All that said Trump is now turning to China to **** on as he did Canada and Iran. His motus operandi is to have a scapegoat at all times. Mexicans, Canadians, North Korea whoever it is at any given week, its now China.

We will have the usual drama now of a trade war and military threats with China no different than North Korea followed by weeks of how tough Donald is. Then we will get the sudden about face and calling the same gangster Chinese good people within minutes of declaring war on them.

Its the way Trump does it and whether Americans continue to buy into his pathetic gangster posing style of loud mouthed bigotry and ignorance of any thing substantial in content, remains to be seen.

I personally believe Trump is a compromised puppet of Putin and is being played to sabotage the Western alliance via Putin's extortion.

Years from now we will find Trump just reacted spur of the moment fearing release of compromising photos of him in diapers being peed on by some Russian escorts when he was in Moscow.

Its worked so far. He has alienated every Western ally of the US, turned his back on the Ukraine, North Korea,  and Russian interference in Syria and former Soviet states.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 01, 2018, 06:39:16 am
There is only so much you can do to mitigate the cultural and geographical closeness in trade.  Look at it this way: this is probably the least friendly US president since the 19th century and so this is as bad as it can get.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 01, 2018, 07:45:43 am
Or it's just the beginning of the era of the reality TV president and it will only get worse.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 01, 2018, 10:14:28 am
Quite a move by Jeff Flake yesterday.   I saw people were furious when he'd voted yes in the judiciary committee to bring Kavanaugh to a vote in the Senate.  But once it was out of committee and in front of the Senate, that gave Flake and Murkowski all the leverage to force Trump and McConnell to call an FBI investigation. Their two votes are all it would take to sink Kavanaugh, so saying that they couldn't vote yes without an investigation gave Trump no choice.
Sadly, things may not be going as well as we had hoped in the investigation.

Right now, there are conflicting stories: Trump is claiming he's allowing the FBI "free reign" in the investigation, but there are various sources claiming that the FBI is being limited: not being able to investigate one of the claims (Swetnick), and being limited in the witnesses it is allowed to call in regards to the other claims.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/01/politics/white-house-kavanaugh-confirmation-postponement/index.html

So, this will be the real test of character for people like Flake and Murkowski.... will they accept an investigation that was micromanaged by the whitehouse to prevent them from uncovering any problems with the nominee and say "we demanded an investigation and got one. We can vote yes". Or will he stare down the white house and GOP leaders and say "I wanted an investigation, what I got was a scam/whitewash. I vote no".

(I am assuming of course that this investigation doesn't turn up anything new, because its been so limited in scope. There's always the chance that one of the few witnesses that are talked to will say "Yup, I saw it happen and Ford was telling the truth.")
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 01, 2018, 12:54:31 pm
Speaking of "witch hunt's" as a term Trump likes to use so often, I wonder who the democratic senator is who he spoke of today in his somewhat flimsy attempt to deflect from the Kavanaugh issue by suggesting that this also had significant trouble with booze, but didn't have a name.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 01, 2018, 06:58:05 pm
Or it's just the beginning of the era of the reality TV president and it will only get worse.

I have thought of that.  President Oprah, President Duck Dynasty, President Hanks.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on October 01, 2018, 07:11:53 pm
There is only so much you can do to mitigate the cultural and geographical closeness in trade.  Look at it this way: this is probably the least friendly US president since the 19th century and so this is as bad as it can get.

Precisely and given that, as much as I despise Trudeau, I think we came out of this as good as expected. The opening of the market to skim milk in the entire scheme of things with supply chain untouched was an evil necessity to protect the industry. Our dairy farmers have to get used to both Euro and American competition if we expect quid pro quo in other areas.

I think from what I am reading our car parts sector is now better off in this deal.

I think when you pursue free trade you have to expect certain sectors to be exposed to more competition from foreign exporters.

All that said the two faced double standards of Trump where he whines about dairy while destroying Bombardier contracts and slamming punitive tariffs on us for steel and aluminum is repulsive. The problem is we made ourselves too dependent and this is a warning to diversify. The cynic in me does not see that happening. We  have to diversify who we trade with.

Ironically dairy farmers are just as subsidized  in the US as they are in Canada. They do it through protective tariffs not supply chain management.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 01, 2018, 07:55:31 pm
Trudeau is no genius, but he's just a run of the mill mediocre politician.  There's no reason to get excited over any of these chumps.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 01, 2018, 09:42:41 pm
One thing I will agree on with Trump is what he said today as to how he imagines what a mess he would be if he had ever drank. Although by saying that he can't use alcohol abuse as an excuse for the sexual assault he has already admitted as he seems to have allowed Kavanaugh to do.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 02, 2018, 06:00:28 am
There's something "off" about that.  Ever hear the expression "I don't trust a man who doesn't drink" ?

Something about it... a person so weak in his morals and so susceptible to vice.  Does he do coke ?  Did he drink once and do something really terrible ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 02, 2018, 09:51:21 am
He was a big Nooo Yawk business player in the 1980s-- of course he did **** at the time.  Does he still do ****?  (sniff)  Maybe just before speeches and debates and rallies (sniff) to give him (sniff) a little extra energy (sniff, sniff) but that's just a guess. Or maybe he just has a cold or allergies (sniff) whenever he has to talk in front of people (sniff) that make his nose run (sniff) and cause him to (sniff) sniffle during these appearances. It's just speculation.

My little brother went "straight edge" after a night of drinking. He didn't do anything terrible, he just felt physically awful afterwards and didn't like who he was when he was drunk and felt ashamed of the way he acted and of all the money he wasted.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 02, 2018, 10:43:34 am
Apparently Trump's brother was quite a "**** tank". This conjures up a couple of questions in my mind. First, is that what kept Donny off the bottle, and also, was having a brother like Donny what drove his brother to it?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 02, 2018, 12:17:09 pm
I have thought of that.  President Oprah, President Duck Dynasty, President Hanks.
President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho. Former pro-wrestler and **** star.

Who ever thought that movie would be so predictive?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 02, 2018, 04:07:43 pm
So the NYT now implicates Trump as a fraud. Is anyone surprised?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-tax-schemes-fred-trump.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 02, 2018, 04:22:01 pm
So the NYT now implicates Trump as a fraud. Is anyone surprised?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-tax-schemes-fred-trump.html

I would be more surprised if you told me Donald Trump has bad hair.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 02, 2018, 04:38:12 pm

My little brother went "straight edge" after a night of drinking. He didn't do anything terrible, he just felt physically awful afterwards and didn't like who he was when he was drunk and felt ashamed of the way he acted and of all the money he wasted.
 

Hmmm.  Well, ok.  I had a beer last week and will have two drinks tonight, as I have a show.  No coke for me.

Why would someone do **** and not alcohol ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 02, 2018, 05:12:06 pm
"Trump was born on third base, then says he hit a triple" - Jeff Tubin.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 02, 2018, 10:14:51 pm
And he wants to send a "delusional drinker and a prolific puker" to the SCOTUS. And here I thought Donald didn't like booze people.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 02, 2018, 10:55:51 pm
Hmmm.  Well, ok.  I had a beer last week and will have two drinks tonight, as I have a show.  No coke for me.

Why would someone do **** and not alcohol ?

****, very high-energy, very successful drug, all the most successful people did **** back in the '80s, that's why everybody got so much work done. Real estate people, Wall Street people, all the best people. Tremendous drug, all the winners used ****.  Marijuana, alcohol, that stuff is low energy. That stuff is for losers. Low-energy.  You want to get things done you get **** people. Back in the '80s, so much productivity, very very productive. So many deals, you wouldn't believe it.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 03, 2018, 06:55:25 am
Anything in moderation, my grandfather used to say.  But coke... nooooo.  I have seen people get addicted to that stuff easily.

I'm soon going to be 4 months without a smoke.  Ducked out to chat with people outside at intermission yesterday and Joanie assumed I had broken down.  I didn't even think of it !
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 03, 2018, 11:11:15 am
Once again Trump displays his hypocrisy on the one hand stating that Ford's testimony was credible and then a day later mocking her in an insulting fashion. Even republicans have cringed at this latest behavior and it could well backfire in various ways including the Kavanaugh nomination vote. I'm sure one republican in particular is wishing Donny boy would keep his god damned mouth shut. That would be Kavanaugh himself of course.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on October 03, 2018, 11:32:18 am
Anything in moderation, my grandfather used to say.  But coke... nooooo.  I have seen people get addicted to that stuff easily.

I'm soon going to be 4 months without a smoke.  Ducked out to chat with people outside at intermission yesterday and Joanie assumed I had broken down.  I didn't even think of it !
The only thing coke is good for is making you want more coke.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 03, 2018, 11:53:01 am
The only thing coke is good for is making you want more coke.
I tried snorting coke once but the bubbles made me sneeze.

What?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 03, 2018, 11:59:40 am
I tried snorting coke once but the bubbles made me sneeze.

What?

If you let it settle awhile the bubbles die down. Go smoke a doobie and then come back to it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 04, 2018, 12:13:30 am
Once again Trump displays his hypocrisy on the one hand stating that Ford's testimony was credible and then a day later mocking her in an insulting fashion.

I thought that mocking the disabled reporter was a low he'd never be able to exceed, but he might have managed it in Mississippi last night.  He's a piece of dog ****.

The people cheering him on are dog **** too.  Trumptards are disgusting.

Even republicans have cringed at this latest behavior and it could well backfire in various ways including the Kavanaugh nomination vote. I'm sure one republican in particular is wishing Donny boy would keep his god damned mouth shut. That would be Kavanaugh himself of course.

Susan Collins would be a second-- she's in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position.  If she votes no on Kavanaugh, she's going to get "primaried".  If she votes yes, she's going to face a backlash from her blue-state constituents, especially women who feel betrayed. And each time Trump opens his pie-hole on the subject, it adds to the backlash.

Martha McSally would be a third.  She's the one fighting to win the seat Jeff Flake currently holds, and while she'd love to play up her accomplishments as an Air Force captain to appeal to female voters, the **** coming out of Trump's mouth is going to cut into that.  That race is essentially a dead heat right now, some polls show McSally leading, others show her trailing, all are within the statistical margin of error.  McSally said today that she'd vote to confirm Kavanaugh if she were in Flake's shoes.



 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 04, 2018, 06:32:06 am
I tried snorting coke once but the bubbles made me sneeze.

What?

You gave me the idea for the drug thread.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 04, 2018, 09:28:11 am
The only thing coke is good for is making you want more coke.

The only way I like coke is with rum in it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 04, 2018, 11:02:54 am
I thought that mocking the disabled reporter was a low he'd never be able to exceed, but he might have managed it in Mississippi last night.  He's a piece of dog ****.

The people cheering him on are dog **** too.  Trumptards are disgusting.

Susan Collins would be a second-- she's in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position.  If she votes no on Kavanaugh, she's going to get "primaried".  If she votes yes, she's going to face a backlash from her blue-state constituents, especially women who feel betrayed. And each time Trump opens his pie-hole on the subject, it adds to the backlash.

Martha McSally would be a third.  She's the one fighting to win the seat Jeff Flake currently holds, and while she'd love to play up her accomplishments as an Air Force captain to appeal to female voters, the **** coming out of Trump's mouth is going to cut into that.  That race is essentially a dead heat right now, some polls show McSally leading, others show her trailing, all are within the statistical margin of error.  McSally said today that she'd vote to confirm Kavanaugh if she were in Flake's shoes.



 -k

And from what I'm hearing this FBI investigation was nothing more than a charade. (surprise, surprise!) Neither of the principals were interviewed for instance, probably due to limits placed by the WH. I concur with your Trumptard comments.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 04, 2018, 02:02:24 pm
Just listening to these scummy old white haired GOP honkies trying to support their faked, confined FBI investigation into the Ford Kavanaugh case and what a joke. Chuck Grassly seems about ready to have a heart attack.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 04, 2018, 02:57:42 pm
And from what I'm hearing this FBI investigation was nothing more than a charade. (surprise, surprise!) Neither of the principals were interviewed for instance, probably due to limits placed by the WH. I concur with your Trumptard comments.

Speaking of Trumptards, I notice over yonder they have Betsyeee, BCeee, Taxmeee, and all their nonsenseee. I may have to change my moniker lest I suffer some sort of guilt by association. :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on October 05, 2018, 02:26:18 pm
Collins is promoting Kavanaugh now, so it looks like all is settled.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 05, 2018, 02:34:23 pm
Collins is promoting Kavanaugh now, so it looks like all is settled.

Yep, she's a yes I'd say.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 05, 2018, 02:41:14 pm
Is she going to blather on for **** ever?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 05, 2018, 08:52:06 pm
I knew from the start that Collins was only paying lip-service to the idea of listening to Dr Blasey-Ford, the FBI investigation, or to giving thoughtful consideration to this process.  She was in the tank all along.


Today will probably be remembered as the day that abortion access for US women died.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 05, 2018, 08:56:08 pm
I knew from the start that Collins was only paying lip-service to the idea of listening to Dr Blasey-Ford, the FBI investigation, or to giving thoughtful consideration to this process.  She was in the tank all along.


Today will probably be remembered as the day that abortion access for US women died.

 -k

Are you suggesting Kavanaugh might have lied  to get his seat? Surely no Trump butt buddy would do that!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 05, 2018, 08:57:48 pm
Tomorrow probably also marks the beginning of a Republican-controlled Supreme Court for at least the next 30 years or so.  We can no doubt expect to see Republican-style rulings on womens' rights and gay rights cases for a generation.  **** glad I don't live there.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 05, 2018, 08:58:24 pm
Are you suggesting Kavanaugh might have lied  to get his seat? Surely no Trump butt buddy would do that!

We already know he lied. Which lie in particular are you referring to?

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 05, 2018, 09:40:56 pm
  **** glad I don't live there.
 

Yes, **** that place in its entirety.  I won't travel there until this all stops.

And the news is part of the problem.  I'm not even listening to that stuff anymore.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 06, 2018, 11:26:05 am
Yes, **** that place in its entirety.  I won't travel there until this all stops.

And the news is part of the problem.  I'm not even listening to that stuff anymore.

I again find myself having to channel surf to Al Jazeera, Euronews, DT and the BBC since the Canadian networks, the CBC in particular, have become "All Kavanaugh, All the time!"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 06, 2018, 01:01:03 pm
I find CBCs attention to it baffling.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 07, 2018, 12:54:46 pm
I find CBCs attention to it baffling.

The Neil Gorsuch confirmation certainly did not generate nearly as much interest in Canada, which seems to suggest that the main draw of the Kavanaugh affair has been the sex assault allegations.  The Kavanaugh hearings received little interest this side of the border until Dr Blasey-Ford's allegations were made public.

It has become something of a proxy-war against #MeToo.   While some of the "yes" senators like Susan Collins and Ben Sasse took great pains to explain that the Kavanaugh vote was not a referendum on #MeToo, many people (on both sides) want it to be exactly that. For Democrats, they tried to leverage #MeToo for political purposes. For Mitch McConnell and President Dump, turning it into a fight against #MeToo seems to be an issue that gets their knuckle-dragging base fired up for the mid-terms.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 07, 2018, 12:56:12 pm

It has become something of a proxy-war against #MeToo.   

Do you think women are following it more than men ?  Joanie says she hasn't been following it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on October 07, 2018, 01:53:31 pm
It has become something of a proxy-war against #MeToo.
The contrast between my personal reactions to the Brown allegations and  the Kavanaugh allegations has been something I have had to think about. With Brown I thought it was ridiculous that a politician could have his career destroyed based on unsubstantiated allegations of dubious behavior from years ago. With Kavanaugh it was easy to join the lynch mob since I have come to hate Trump so much and really wanted to see him fail. Now that it is over I can see why people support Kavanaugh because there is no evidence of other than Ford's testimony which could easily be honest memories of events that did not occur because our mind edits memories over time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on October 07, 2018, 01:59:28 pm
could easily be honest memories of events that did not occur because our mind edits memories over time.

We lose a lot of memories, but our mind doesn't edit them (at least mine doesn't, maybe you have different experiences).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on October 07, 2018, 02:17:03 pm
We lose a lot of memories, but our mind doesn't edit them (at least mine doesn't, maybe you have different experiences).
Your mind edits them all of the time. You are just not aware of it.

https://www.themarysue.com/memory-distortion-in-brain/

Quote
According to a recent study, just as you can’t step in the same river twice, your memories are changed by the act of recalling them, meaning that every memory we have is colored by the times we’ve recollected it before.The research, conducted by Northwestern Medicine and published this week in the Journal of Neuroscience, shows that recalling a memory more often makes that memory less accurate, and that every time you take a memory off the shelf in your brain, you put it back just a tiny bit different
What this implies is people recalling traumatic events are less likely to remember them accurately since it is those events that they keep going back to.

Here is a link to the paper: http://www.jneurosci.org/content/32/35/12144
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on October 07, 2018, 02:53:10 pm
Your mind edits them all of the time. You are just not aware of it.

What this implies is people recalling traumatic events are less likely to remember them accurately since it is those events that they keep going back to.

From the paper you cited: Reactivation of recently acquired information can strengthen memory storage and likely contributes to memory consolidation. Retrieval (generating information about prior events) may improve memory storage because it entails reactivation. Alternatively, retrieval may promote storage of retrieved information, and, if retrieval is inaccurate, subsequent recall could be distorted by the retrieved information.

What this implies is you remember a list, recall it and change apples to oranges, and then when you recall it the next time you might remember oranges - or not. Certain vital information however is seared into our memories. My earliest memory is a window falling on my fingers when I was 3 and visiting Port Burwell. I can clearly remember the cottage we rented had an outside hand pumped well. I have vague recollection of a beach we visited. I can't tell you how long we stayed there, I can guess it was several weeks as we usually did during the summers (my dad worked on dredges in the seaway and ports, so most summers we spent several weeks wherever he was working) but I can't say with any level of confidence. I can say with confidence it was a hung window but not if it was single or double hung. I can't say why it fell, perhaps I knocked a stick that held it up or perhaps it just slipped at the wrong moment. I can guess that I was holding onto the bottom to look out, I think it was in a stairway looking into the front but that I am not as confident about. If I retell that or any other story, I might add information as any story teller would for entertainment purposes but I am completely confident in what I know and what I am adding.

Dr. Ford is 100% certain her attacker was Brett Kavanaugh, she also recalls certain information about the house in which she was attacked. She is also well aware that many associated details she has no confidence in and honestly says so. Of course she was attacked for not having 100% recall of every single fact.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on October 07, 2018, 03:30:09 pm
Dr. Ford is 100% certain her attacker was Brett Kavanaugh, she also recalls certain information about the house in which she was attacked. She is also well aware that many associated details she has no confidence in and honestly says so. Of course she was attacked for not having 100% recall of every single fact.
The only thing Ford can be 100% certain of is she suffered trauma on that night. Who inflicted it, the details of what happened prior or after the traumatic event are all subject to the memory editing effect. She likely honestly believes it was Kavanaugh but she could have substituted Kavanaugh for her attacker if other life events caused her to fixate on Kavanaugh for some reason. Research on eye witnesses supports how face recognition may not be accurate even for victims of trauma and that eye witnesses memories can be manipulated by investigators (how many times has an innocent person been convicted because an eyewitness is "100% certain" that they saw the accused?).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on October 07, 2018, 03:50:46 pm
how many times has an innocent person been convicted because an eyewitness is "100% certain" that they saw the accused?

That I couldn't tell you. Yes eyewitnesses have misidentified people, but have they been 100% certain, and are they people they know or people they only saw once. How long were they exposed to that person, was it just a glimpse or were they being held down and attacked. Was it someone in the place they were already attending? What about voices, etc. Note that she didn't only identify Kavanaugh, she identified Judge and at least two others that were at the gathering.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on October 07, 2018, 06:26:29 pm
Note that she didn't only identify Kavanaugh, she identified Judge and at least two others that were at the gathering.
Neither of which corroborated her claim. There is nothing in the paper I linked that suggests that specific details of memories are impervious to the memory editing effect. It only says that memory editing does not always occur. So if we are assessing evidence from memories we need other information that can independently collaborate details of the recollections. That is where Ford's lack of specifics on other details makes it hard to evaluate her claims. The point is, as a society, we can't allow a person's career and reputation to be destroyed based on the recalled memories no matter how convincing the witness. There needs to be more evidence. It does not have to reach 'proof beyond reasonable doubt' but there has to be something. In this case there was nothing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 07, 2018, 10:38:49 pm
With Kavanaugh it was easy to join the lynch mob since I have come to hate Trump so much and really wanted to see him fail. Now that it is over I can see why people support Kavanaugh because there is no evidence of other than Ford's testimony which could easily be honest memories of events that did not occur because our mind edits memories over time.

I feel the same.  I was already inclined to oppose Kavanaugh because now that he is confirmed the US Supreme Court is tilted to the right for probably 20-30 years to come.  I think this is terrible news for a large number of Americans.

But that isn't Kavanaugh's fault. That result became inevitable when Trump won the election. It was a done deal.  But my dislike for this outcome might have biased me against him.

What I do think is that Kavanaugh's lying under oath during his testimony-- he conveniently forgot working on a Judge Pickering confirmation that he was questioned about, conveniently forgot working on a Judge Pryor confirmation that he was questioned about, conveniently could recall anything about his mentor's notoriously sexist and toxic courtroom, came up with a completely implausible explanation on the Manuel Miranda issue-- in which he was receiving documents stolen from senate Democrats by Mr Miranda.

This stuff should have already been disqualifying.  Even before the sex assault allegations. 

If it was just the sex assault allegations, I wouldn't know what to decide.  But aside from the sex assault allegations we also know that he has lied under oath and that he's a partisan hack.

I liked Senator Murkowski's statement on why she decided to vote no.  She said, basically, that confirming Kavanaugh would undermine peoples' trust in the Supreme Court.  She's right. 



 -k



Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 07, 2018, 10:45:57 pm
Right-wing actor James Woods on Twitter:
Quote
Now what #Republicans MUST do is support those still marginalized by a history of oppression and neglect. As we assume the leadership of America, let’s work harder than ever to ensure minority opportunity and women’s rights. Let’s show that Republicans are good for ALL Americans.

It's a lovely sentiment, but if he thinks that the Republicans have been stacking the courts so that they can protect women and minority rights, he's obviously an idiot of some kind.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 07, 2018, 10:47:29 pm
Do you think women are following it more than men ?  Joanie says she hasn't been following it.

I really don't know.  I read quite a few articles as the situation unfolded, but I avoided watching any of the hearings because I had a hunch that it would be rage inducing.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on October 07, 2018, 10:58:15 pm
If it was just the sex assault allegations, I wouldn't know what to decide.  But aside from the sex assault allegations we also know that he has lied under oath and that he's a partisan hack.
I agree with that too. Kavanaugh's handling of the accusations exposed him as someone who should not be on the court even if the accusations themselves are not true.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on October 07, 2018, 11:12:42 pm
I agree with that too. Kavanaugh's handling of the accusations exposed him as someone who should not be on the court even if the accusations themselves are not true.

And that's the thing for me too - it's beyond any allegations.  He shouldn't be a judge of any kind.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 09, 2018, 01:34:26 pm
The only thing Ford can be 100% certain of is she suffered trauma on that night. ... She likely honestly believes it was Kavanaugh but she could have substituted Kavanaugh for her attacker if other life events caused her to fixate on Kavanaugh for some reason. Research on eye witnesses supports how face recognition may not be accurate even for victims of trauma...
Keep in mind that the issue of facial recognition is not an issue here. Ford knew Kavanaugh before the attack, which certainly lessens (if not eliminates) the possibility that it was a case of "Not sure who my attacker was but this is what he looked like. Oh, it matches this guy so he must be the one".

All that she would have had to remember is the guy's name... Kavanaugh... even if she couldn't remember anything about what he looked like on that night.

And it should be noted that while Kavanaugh was claiming he "only partied on weekends", the Calendar that he was waving around had a gathering (on a week night) that just happened to have several people that would have been at the party.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/28/17914174/brett-kavanaugh-calendar-christine-blasey-ford
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 09, 2018, 01:40:36 pm
I knew from the start that Collins was only paying lip-service to the idea of listening to Dr Blasey-Ford, the FBI investigation, or to giving thoughtful consideration to this process.  She was in the tank all along.
Yup, she's certainly done her best to appear as a moderate while at the same time being a complete boot-licker for Trump.

Its not the first time either... Remember, while she voted against the Republican health care act (which almost made her look like she was independent), then she turned around and voted for the Republican tax cut bill (which gutted parts of Obamacare), and never held the republicans accountable for their broken promise of future health care funding.

I guess the take-away from this is: There is no such thing as a moderate republican, and every one of them should be considered a supporter of a Russian-backed president.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on October 10, 2018, 11:23:35 am
I read this article this morning and it made me kind of sad.  I see some of the pro-Trump people at the other site and the gloating, laughing, mocking of anyone who disagrees with them, and trashing of Democrats ("Drive that knife into those Dems!!"  :o) is startling and scary.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/the-cruelty-is-the-point/572104/

Quote
The Museum of African-American History and Culture is in part a catalog of cruelty. Amid all the stories of perseverance, tragedy, and unlikely triumph are the artifacts of inhumanity and barbarism: the child-size slave shackles, the bright red robes of the wizards of the Ku Klux Klan, the recordings of civil-rights protesters being brutalized by police.

The artifacts that persist in my memory, the way a bright flash does when you close your eyes, are the photographs of lynchings. But it’s not the burned, mutilated bodies that stick with me. It’s the faces of the white men in the crowd. There’s the photo of the lynching of Thomas Shipp and Abram Smith in Indiana in 1930, in which a white man can be seen grinning at the camera as he tenderly holds the hand of his wife or girlfriend. There’s the undated photo from Duluth, Minnesota, in which grinning white men stand next to the mutilated, half-naked bodies of two men lashed to a post in the street—one of the white men is straining to get into the picture, his smile cutting from ear to ear. There’s the photo of a crowd of white men huddled behind the smoldering corpse of a man burned to death; one of them is wearing a smart suit, a fedora hat, and a bright smile.


They were human beings, people who took immense pleasure in the utter cruelty of torturing others to death—and were so proud of doing so that they posed for photographs with their handiwork, jostling to ensure they caught the eye of the lens, so that the world would know they’d been there. Their cruelty made them feel good, it made them feel proud, it made them feel happy. And it made them feel closer to one another.

The Trump era is such a whirlwind of cruelty that it can be hard to keep track. This week alone, the news broke that the Trump administration was seeking to ethnically cleanse more than 193,000 American children of immigrants whose temporary protected status had been revoked by the administration, that the Department of Homeland Security had lied about creating a database of children that would make it possible to unite them with the families the Trump administration had arbitrarily destroyed, that the White House was considering a blanket ban on visas for Chinese students, and that it would deny visas to the same-sex partners of foreign officials. At a rally in Mississippi, a crowd of Trump supporters cheered as the president mocked Christine Blasey Ford, the psychology professor who has said that Brett Kavanaugh, whom Trump has nominated to a lifetime appointment on the Supreme Court, attempted to **** her when she was a teenager. “Lock her up!” they shouted.

Ford testified to the Senate, utilizing her professional expertise to describe the encounter, that one of the parts of the incident she remembered most was Kavanaugh and his friend Mark Judge laughing at her as Kavanaugh fumbled at her clothing. “Indelible in the hippocampus is the laughter,” Ford said, referring to the part of the brain that processes emotion and memory, “the uproarious laughter between the two, and their having fun at my expense.” And then at Tuesday’s rally, the president made his supporters laugh at her.

This isn’t incoherent. It reflects a clear principle: Only the president and his allies, his supporters, and their anointed are entitled to the rights and protections of the law, and if necessary, immunity from it. The rest of us are entitled only to cruelty, by their whim. This is how the powerful have ever kept the powerless divided and in their place, and enriched themselves in the process.

Quote
Trump’s only true skill is the con; his only fundamental belief is that the United States is the birthright of straight, white, Christian men, and his only real, authentic pleasure is in cruelty. It is that cruelty, and the delight it brings them, that binds his most ardent supporters to him, in shared scorn for those they hate and fear: immigrants, black voters, feminists, and treasonous white men who empathize with any of those who would steal their birthright. The president’s ability to execute that cruelty through word and deed makes them euphoric. It makes them feel good, it makes them feel proud, it makes them feel happy, it makes them feel united. And as long as he makes them feel that way, they will let him get away with anything, no matter what it costs them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 10, 2018, 11:46:44 am
You still read that ****? I got tired of it when they banned everyone who didn't subscribe wholeheartedly to the alt-right.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 10, 2018, 06:41:41 pm
You still read that ****? I got tired of it when they banned everyone who didn't subscribe wholeheartedly to the alt-right.

The Atlantic ?

So... as per the article I expect the alt-right to be angry because they are based in that emotion.  When the response starts getting angry then I get worried because those are normal people who are turning angry...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 10, 2018, 08:14:49 pm
The Atlantic ?

So... as per the article I expect the alt-right to be angry because they are based in that emotion.  When the response starts getting angry then I get worried because those are normal people who are turning angry...

I think they were already angry people.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 10, 2018, 09:51:15 pm
The Atlantic ?

I suspect Bubber was referring to "the other site".

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 10, 2018, 10:13:58 pm
I read this article this morning and it made me kind of sad.  I see some of the pro-Trump people at the other site and the gloating, laughing, mocking of anyone who disagrees with them, and trashing of Democrats ("Drive that knife into those Dems!!"  :o) is startling and scary.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/the-cruelty-is-the-point/572104/

Indeed.   For some of these people, "librul tears" is the only policy or principle they care about. If liberals hate it, they think it's great.

And though they delight in seeing others hurt, they take great offense when one of their own is targeted with incivility. Remember how they bawled when Sarah Huckerbee Sanders was refused service at a restaurant.  At the same time they were cheering on Cory Lewandowski for mocking the children taken from their parents ("womp-womp") they're howling with indignation that the lying **** was told to leave a restaurant.  I took a visit to the old place at that time, and was delighted to see Pastor McFuckface and Crabby Old Lady crying about how rude and unfair it was that Sanders was treated so rudely.    Like a typical playground bully, they love to dish it out, but they can't take it.

I am anticipating that over the next several years, the pendulum will swing back the other direction. As Brett Kavanaugh put it, "what goes around, comes around".  I am looking forward to that.

(https://i.imgur.com/DzTzUw6.jpg)

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 10, 2018, 10:28:57 pm
I am anticipating that over the next several years, the pendulum will swing back the other direction. As Brett Kavanaugh put it, "what goes around, comes around".  I am looking forward to that.

I think the problem is the pendulum itself. 

The next swing could be Bernie Sanders or the like.  So we're going from some weird alt-right Trump to the the most leftwing politicians to get close to the white house?  Neither will satisfy the country.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 11, 2018, 06:09:35 am
I suspect Bubber was referring to "the other site".

 -k

Oh.  All right then. 

My new thing is to go on facebook with my alt-identity and super-troll ignoramuses with dry humour.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 11, 2018, 06:11:26 am
Indeed.   For some of these people, "librul tears" is the only policy or principle they care about. If liberals hate it, they think it's great.

And though they delight in seeing others hurt, they take great offense when one of their own is targeted with incivility. Remember how they bawled when Sarah Huckerbee Sanders was refused service at a restaurant.  At the same time they were cheering on Cory Lewandowski for mocking the children taken from their parents ("womp-womp") they're howling with indignation that the lying **** was told to leave a restaurant.  I took a visit to the old place at that time, and was delighted to see Pastor McFuckface and Crabby Old Lady crying about how rude and unfair it was that Sanders was treated so rudely.    Like a typical playground bully, they love to dish it out, but they can't take it.

I am anticipating that over the next several years, the pendulum will swing back the other direction. As Brett Kavanaugh put it, "what goes around, comes around".  I am looking forward to that.

(https://i.imgur.com/DzTzUw6.jpg)

 -k

That's dehumanization and it's a precursor to war.  Over what ?  Why is the wealthiest and most prosperous nation in history tearing itself apart ?  My guess is that they're bored.. and they're doing the same kind of fall Rome did.  I think there's a Chinese proverb about big countries only failing from within.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 11, 2018, 06:13:36 am
I think the problem is the pendulum itself. 

The next swing could be Bernie Sanders or the like.  So we're going from some weird alt-right Trump to the the most leftwing politicians to get close to the white house?  Neither will satisfy the country.

If the left people can improve peoples' lives then the country will be satisfied.  The current regime is only about spite and revenge so there's no vision and no real benefit to people.  It's not clear which way it will go.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 11, 2018, 07:23:48 am
Oh.  All right then. 

My new thing is to go on facebook with my alt-identity and super-troll ignoramuses with dry humour.
It's not as much fun as it sounds.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 11, 2018, 07:28:41 am
I dunno.  I have never trolled before.

FWIW I try to edify, to be positive and not insult.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 11, 2018, 08:50:58 am
I think by some people's definitions of "trolling", "trolling" is all you've ever done.
But I agree that that definition is ridiculous.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on October 11, 2018, 09:17:26 am
If the left people can improve peoples' lives then the country will be satisfied.
I don't think you understand how "identity politics" has poisoned the political environment. As long as the left portrays men/white/straight people as the enemy the left has no chance of satisfying the people they vilify. What the US needs is leadership that is going to unite people instead of exploiting tribal differences. There is no sign of that happening.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 11, 2018, 11:13:20 am
I don't think you understand how "identity politics" has poisoned the political environment. As long as the left portrays men/white/straight people as the enemy the left has no chance of satisfying the people they vilify. What the US needs is leadership that is going to unite people instead of exploiting tribal differences. There is no sign of that happening.
In some cases, its not a generic "left hates straight white men"... its more of a case of "left hates straight white men who are doing things to harm homosexuals/minorities/women". If those straight white men didn't support anti-gay laws, or didn't want to ignore issues with sexual harassment, then there would be less conflict.

If you have a group of people who want to punch people in the face, and another group who says "we think punching people in the face is wrong", then it becomes extremely difficult to
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 11, 2018, 11:24:54 am
Strange, we haven't heard Trump brag about how well the stock market is doing lately. I wonder why.

Oh, that's why...

From: https://www.vox.com/world/2018/10/11/17963714/global-stock-market-crash-dow-china-europe
Wall Street just had its worst one-day drop in months, causing a global market downturn... That led to slides in the Asian and European markets, mostly because they traditionally react to what’s happening on Wall Street.

Looks like there are several probable reasons for the drop:
- Trump's trade and foreign policies... starting a trade war with China, putting sanctions on Iran, etc.
- The Federal reserve raising its interest rate (which it does to cool down an overheated economy and stop inflation. Given Trump's actions may have overstimulated the economy, inflation should be a concern.)
- Recent problems at tech companies (e.g. data stolen from FaceBook, and the possibility of new government regulations.)

Frankly I welcome the downturn. It was bound to happen some time, and Trump has been bragging about his economic "success" (which he probably isn't responsible for, since he inherited a growing economy from Obama.) If a downturn is to happen, I'd much rather it happen when the republicans are in power (since they seem to be causing so many of the problems), instead of in a few years (If/when the democrats manage to take over the white house or senate, and have to deal with an economy that the Republicans have brought to the brink of collapse.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 11, 2018, 12:09:58 pm
If the left people can improve peoples' lives then the country will be satisfied.  The current regime is only about spite and revenge so there's no vision and no real benefit to people.  It's not clear which way it will go.

You think the Left can't be spiteful and eager for revenge?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 11, 2018, 12:12:01 pm
In some cases, its not a generic "left hates straight white men"...

When it comes to policies, regulations and laws developed by the Left it usually makes little difference.

I see Bloomberg has filed to run as a Democrat. I doubt the Democrats will be smart enough to nominate him, but if they did he'd probably sweep the country.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 11, 2018, 12:24:43 pm
When it comes to policies, regulations and laws developed by the Left it usually makes little difference.

I see Bloomberg has filed to run as a Democrat. I doubt the Democrats will be smart enough to nominate him, but if they did he'd probably sweep the country.

Well we see how bright the repubs are
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 11, 2018, 12:41:14 pm
Quote
If the left people can improve peoples' lives then the country will be satisfied.  The current regime is only about spite and revenge so there's no vision and no real benefit to people.  It's not clear which way it will go.
You think the Left can't be spiteful and eager for revenge?
I am sure people on the left CAN be spiteful and eager for revenge.

I think the difference right now is that the for the most part the Democrats seem to be keeping their baser instincts in check. Look at Obama when he was president... he didn't "lash out" at the republicans who claimed he was a kenyan-born marxist muslim. And when they brought in Obamacare, they made every effort to get Republican input into the process.

On the other hand, the current version of the republican party has driven itself to crazytown. To them, revenge and spite are not instincts to be marginalized. Instead they are front and center, guiding the party and its members.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 11, 2018, 12:59:24 pm
Quote
In some cases, its not a generic "left hates straight white men"...
When it comes to policies, regulations and laws developed by the Left it usually makes little difference.
Just out of curiosity, what policies or laws have the 'left' worked to enact that directly targeted straight white men that wasn't meant to deal with (for example) anti-gay bigotry or minority disenfranchisement?

Quote
I see Bloomberg has filed to run as a Democrat. I doubt the Democrats will be smart enough to nominate him, but if they did he'd probably sweep the country.
From what I know about him, he'd probably be a pretty decent leader, exactly the type I'd vote for (if I were American)... pro-business, but not to the point of hamstringing government functions, and solidly progressive on issues like climate change, gay marriage, abortion, etc. And unlike Trump, he seems to be 1) a self-made man (i.e. he didn't inherit his wealth), and 2) generous.

I could see a few small issues... For example, no experience at the federal or state level (not that it stopped Trump, but I'd hope the democrats would be a bit more responsible than the republicans)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 11, 2018, 02:19:54 pm
You think the Left can't be spiteful and eager for revenge?

Please give some examples.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 11, 2018, 02:25:11 pm
While areas of Florida are flat and digging out, the potus twiddles his thunbs listening to Kanye West blather on like only a **** retard like he can. Does it get any stupider? I hope lightening strikes the WH and blows Donny's hairball off his retarded head.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on October 11, 2018, 04:09:39 pm
Please give some examples.

The above comment. All your responses. Was that atrick question?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 11, 2018, 04:23:28 pm
The above comment. All your responses. Was that atrick question?

I take it you enjoyed Kanye's rant?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 11, 2018, 04:28:27 pm
The current regime is only about spite and revenge so there's no vision and no real benefit to people.

It's sometimes about that but not only about that, that's an oversimplification.  There is a vision, actually a very ambitious one very different than previous POTUS' which is why he was elected, it's just flawed, and the way he goes about things and says things is so flawed and causes resentment and exclusion.  It benefits some people but not others.

Imagine a POTUS that governed for the great majority, not just red team or blue team or this or that sub-group within red team or blue team.  What's the point of electing someone if their policies are going to be dismantled and replaced with the opposite every 8 yrs?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 11, 2018, 04:36:59 pm
It's sometimes about that but not only about that, that's an oversimplification.  There is a vision, actually a very ambitious one very different than previous POTUS' which is why he was elected, it's just flawed, and the way he goes about things and says things is so flawed and causes resentment and exclusion.  It benefits some people but not others.

Imagine a POTUS that governed for the great majority, not just red team or blue team or this or that sub-group within red team or blue team.  What's the point of electing someone if their policies are going to be dismantled and replaced with the opposite every 8 yrs?

Can't wait to her your description of this "vision" You'r talking about the current potus just to b clear?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 11, 2018, 04:40:43 pm
Please give some examples.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dxkhPOzRl1c/hqdefault.jpg)

(https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fallnewspipeline.com%2Fimages%2FBerkeleyRiots000.jpg&hash=cdf0b8f1545840a62aad58779e0eb9d54fb0d21e)

Right or left doesn't exclude the angry or the nutters.  I don't think it's ultimately a left or right thing, just a civility thing.  Right vs left, more like Yanks vs Red Sox, my side is better your side sucks you're all stupid booo!!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 11, 2018, 04:46:05 pm
Can't wait to her your description of this "vision" You'r talking about the current potus just to b clear?

Yes.  His vision is MAGA and all his election promises.  I'm not saying it's this wonderful vision, I'm just saying its a vision. Hitler and Lenin also had grand visions, having a vision doesn't mean it's any good.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 11, 2018, 04:55:52 pm
Yes.  His vision is MAGA and all his election promises.  I'm not saying it's this wonderful vision, I'm just saying its a vision. Hitler and Lenin also had grand visions, having a vision doesn't mean it's any good.

His vision was written years ago. It was called "the emperors  new clothes".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 11, 2018, 04:57:06 pm
(pictures showing problems of 'left wingers' being uncivil... Kathy Griffin holding fake head, Berkley riots)

Right or left doesn't exclude the angry or the nutters.  I don't think it's ultimately a left or right thing, just a civility thing.  Right vs left, more like Yanks vs Red Sox, my side is better your side sucks you're all stupid booo!!
And once again... the difference between what you see on the left hand side and what you see from the conservative side is different because of the way those in charge actually deal with it.

Take for example the Kathy Griffin head-photo. Griffin was not a member of the white house staff. She had never (to my knowledge) visited the white house, nor did she hang out with Obama or Hillary Clinton. She was a minor celeberty (at best) with no real influence.

Compare that to (for example) Ted Nugent... a guy who suggested Obama and Clinton 'suck on his machine gun', and made a statement about how Obama was a 'mongrel'. Just as spiteful (if not more) as the picture of Griffin. Yet Nugent 1) actually helped Donald Trump campaign, and 2) actually had his photo taken with Trump in the oval office. The person making the deplorable activities is not shunned for being a grade-A asshat, but celebrated and rewarded.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 11, 2018, 04:57:49 pm
I take it you enjoyed Kanye's rant?

https://twitter.com/amandashires
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on October 11, 2018, 05:29:23 pm
If those straight white men didn't support anti-gay laws, or didn't want to ignore issues with sexual harassment, then there would be less conflict.
Identity politics goes way beyond the issue of gay rights and  sexual harassment. The odious notion that white people should feel guilty because of the 'privileged' or the notion that woman never lie about sexual assault for personal gain or the people should be compelled by the state to say things they do not believe. On so many issues people on the left have started from a reasonable premise put pushed to absurd extremes. You can wallow in denial if you like but that is not going do anything other than exacerbate the tribal divide. Fixing the tribal divide requires that both sides stop seeing the other as evil.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 11, 2018, 08:38:04 pm
And once again... the difference between what you see on the left hand side and what you see from the conservative side is different because of the way those in charge actually deal with it.

Take for example the Kathy Griffin head-photo. Griffin was not a member of the white house staff. She had never (to my knowledge) visited the white house, nor did she hang out with Obama or Hillary Clinton. She was a minor celeberty (at best) with no real influence.

Compare that to (for example) Ted Nugent...

I'm not trying to get into left vs right debate on "who is worse" again, we've discussed that a lot here, and i'm not even saying they're equally bad.  That's not my point.  My point is, spite and revenge and these kinds of unhelpful negative (and even dangerous) feelings are temptations for all of us.  We have to rise above, it's really easy to hate.  A lot of people hate Trump, he makes it easy.

I'll let Richard Nixon and his farewell address ironically make the point for me:  "Always remember, others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them, and then you destroy yourself.”
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 11, 2018, 08:54:41 pm
I'm not trying to get into left vs right debate on "who is worse" again, we've discussed that a lot here, and i'm not even saying they're equally bad.  That's not my point.  My point is, spite and revenge and these kinds of unhelpful negative (and even dangerous) feelings are temptations for all of us.  We have to rise above, it's really easy to hate.  A lot of people hate Trump, he makes it easy.

I'll let Richard Nixon and his farewell address ironically make the point for me:  "Always remember, others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them, and then you destroy yourself.”

How do you think Trump makes it so easy to hate him? And I suggest quoting nixon does not aide your argument
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 11, 2018, 09:13:30 pm
The "crazy motherfucker" at the wh today wasn't just kanye
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 11, 2018, 09:26:31 pm
Kanye says he suffers from bipolar disorder (and an inflated sense of self-importance).  Trump seems to have narcissistic personality disorder.  They make quite the pair.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 11, 2018, 10:29:59 pm
Kanye says he suffers from bipolar disorder (and an inflated sense of self-importance).  Trump seems to have narcissistic personality disorder.  They make quite the pair.

YEAH! And that gets me nervous while not even being Anerican
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 12, 2018, 05:37:52 am
I pay less and less attention to the failure of civilization in America now but this is another new low:

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/10/11/17964494/washington-post-journalist-jamal-khashoggi-trump-saudi-arabia

Quote
If you thought Trump was serious about punishing Saudi Arabia, think again.

...

In brief comments to reporters in the Oval Office on Thursday, Trump insinuated that he was unhappy Khashoggi may have been killed in Istanbul’s Saudi consulate on October 2 — an operation possibly ordered by Riyadh’s powerful de facto leader, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

But Trump made sure to note that he doesn’t want to punish the Kingdom too hard — instead, he’d rather cash Saudi Arabia’s checks.

“This took place in Turkey and to the best of our knowledge, Khashoggi is not a United States citizen,” he told reporters in the Oval Office on Thursday. “I don’t like stopping massive amounts of money that’s being poured into our country,” referring to his desire to sell $110 billion worth of weapons to Saudi Arabia, adding that “it would not be acceptable to me.”

Trump’s comments just made one thing extremely clear: He cares much more about getting American companies paid than defending human rights. What’s more, he doesn’t care that much about Khashoggi — who heavily criticized the crown prince in the Washington Post — because he is merely a US resident, not citizen.

They murdered their own citizen for criticizing them ?  "Terrible situation" It could cost us money to say something ? "Not a US citizen"

Morality is a nebulous thing and we would all do more to help those close to us than far away.  And we do, in fact, consider selfish considerations like security and well-being when deciding when to help.  But expressing your ethics as blankly having a price tag is another kind of low mark.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 12, 2018, 12:44:42 pm
I pay less and less attention to the failure of civilization in America now but this is another new low:

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/10/11/17964494/washington-post-journalist-jamal-khashoggi-trump-saudi-arabia

They murdered their own citizen for criticizing them ?  "Terrible situation" It could cost us money to say something ? "Not a US citizen"

Morality is a nebulous thing and we would all do more to help those close to us than far away.  And we do, in fact, consider selfish considerations like security and well-being when deciding when to help.  But expressing your ethics as blankly having a price tag is another kind of low mark.


Not that I support the Trump position, but what has Canada done about Saudi Arabia? 

Quote
https://globalnews.ca/news/4541383/justin-trudeau-armoured-vehicles-saudi-arabia-missing-journalist/
Canada still selling armoured vehicles to Saudis despite ‘concern’ of missing journalist: Trudeau


If this is "a new low" for America, then maybe it's doubly so for Canada.  Our governments pretend to take the high ground, and people like yourself seem to believe them.  At least the American position isn't hypocritical like Canada's. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 12, 2018, 01:01:52 pm

Not that I support the Trump position, but what has Canada done about Saudi Arabia? 


If this is "a new low" for America, then maybe it's doubly so for Canada.  Our governments pretend to take the high ground, and people like yourself seem to believe them.  At least the American position isn't hypocritical like Canada's.

If you are trying to say trump isn't hypocritical with regard to his approach to the saudi's then you should open up your dictionary.
You'll likely see a picture of donald.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 12, 2018, 01:09:59 pm
If you are trying to say trump isn't hypocritical with regard to his approach to the saudi's then you should open up your dictionary.
You'll likely see a picture of donald.

And of Trudeau...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 12, 2018, 01:35:39 pm
And of Trudeau...

At least trudeau had the balls to criticize the Saudi's on the Badawi case. All trump cares about is selling arms.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 12, 2018, 02:12:12 pm
Just out of curiosity, what policies or laws have the 'left' worked to enact that directly targeted straight white men that wasn't meant to deal with (for example) anti-gay bigotry or minority disenfranchisement?

All affirmative action laws and policies are prejudiced towards white people, particularly white men, as women tend to benefit from them.
There is no attempt to determine if there is actual prejudice. It is assumed, wherever numbers of non-whites or females are lower than someone thinks they ought to be. Thus the lack of females in the STEM professions is presumed to be national crisis, and schools are required to discriminate against men, to hire less able women, and to allow less able women to enroll. Merit is simply not considered important.

Of course, where there are far more women than men in a profession, that's no reason to be concerned or to take any remedial action.

You talk about addressing disenfranchisement with minorities. Yet according to the stats 70% of them are immigrants. Just how are affirmative action programs needed to make up for generations of discrimination when almost no visible minorities were even here to be discriminated against?

The Obama school discipline demand threatening school boards with the loss of federal funding if they didn't stop expelling/suspending Black students more often than whites would be another example. The Title Nine rules around gender balance in sports would be still another, leading to gross inequities in the name of equality.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on October 12, 2018, 02:16:28 pm
At least the American position isn't hypocritical like Canada's.

Bullcrap, our ambassador was expelled from Saudi Arabia a short while ago for taking a stand on human rights. We continue to do so.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 12, 2018, 02:19:50 pm
And once again... the difference between what you see on the left hand side and what you see from the conservative side is different because of the way those in charge actually deal with it.

Take for example the Kathy Griffin head-photo. Griffin was not a member of the white house staff. She had never (to my knowledge) visited the white house, nor did she hang out with Obama or Hillary Clinton. She was a minor celeberty (at best) with no real influence.

Compare that to (for example) Ted Nugent... a guy who suggested Obama and Clinton 'suck on his machine gun', and made a statement about how Obama was a 'mongrel'. Just as spiteful (if not more) as the picture of Griffin. Yet Nugent 1) actually helped Donald Trump campaign, and 2) actually had his photo taken with Trump in the oval office. The person making the deplorable activities is not shunned for being a grade-A asshat, but celebrated and rewarded.

Ted Nugent is even more of a nobody than Kathy Griffin was. That he 'helped' Trump is simply because Trump is such a desperately needy narcissist that  anyone remotely famous who says he approves of him gets invited to the white house. But Trump is not a conservative in any way, shape or form. He never has been. He's a low IQ guy who inherited his wealth and is clearly entering senility.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 12, 2018, 02:20:32 pm
Bullcrap, our ambassador was expelled from Saudi Arabia a short while ago for taking a stand on human rights. We continue to do so.

Taking a stand would be halting the sale of APCs to the Saudis. They could instead give them to our own military, who are starved for equipment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on October 12, 2018, 02:24:00 pm
Taking a stand would be halting the sale of APCs to the Saudis. They could instead give them to our own military, who are starved for equipment.

Agreed, we need to do more. To compare us to the Americans, and specifically the Trump administration, however is bullcrap.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 12, 2018, 02:34:27 pm
I'm confident trump is much more well informed now after his briefing from Kanye.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 12, 2018, 04:52:33 pm
YEAH! And that gets me nervous while not even being Anerican

Well Kanye did want to run in 2020.  If Pence leaves do I smell a ticket? lol.   Could get the young and minority vote.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 12, 2018, 05:14:07 pm
Morality is a nebulous thing and we would all do more to help those close to us than far away.  And we do, in fact, consider selfish considerations like security and well-being when deciding when to help.  But expressing your ethics as blankly having a price tag is another kind of low mark.

Well give Trump credit for actually flat-out honestly stating what every other president would never say but mean anyways in all their actions.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on October 12, 2018, 07:32:14 pm
I'm confident trump is much more well informed now after his briefing from Kanye.

President West and the first lady Kim to you buddy. Kaitlyn Jenner will be the Secretary of the Interior. She has a lot of experience implementing changes in regards to that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 12, 2018, 09:26:37 pm
Taking a stand would be halting the sale of APCs to the Saudis. They could instead give them to our own military, who are starved for equipment.

I like the sentiment but are we maintaining the ones we already have. Not sure that we are.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 13, 2018, 07:59:51 am

Not that I support the Trump position, but what has Canada done about Saudi Arabia? 

If this is "a new low" for America, then maybe it's doubly so for Canada.  Our governments pretend to take the high ground, and people like yourself seem to believe them.  At least the American position isn't hypocritical like Canada's.

Definitely. 

Uh - why "people like myself" ?  Have you ever seen me say I support Trudeau ?  I think I have barely said anything good about him.

The American position is indeed hypocritical, and the article shows Trump's own hypocrisy saying the situation is terrible, then switching it up when his handlers explain that ethical stances have a dollar price.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 13, 2018, 08:02:10 am
Also - I think when the dustup between Canada and Saudi Arabia happened, it was mostly due to their overreaction on a mild statement by us ?

Their regime is unstable.... how many world leaders can we count on currently to make a considered choice ?

Germany's ? 

That seems to be my list...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 13, 2018, 08:29:15 am
Also - I think when the dustup between Canada and Saudi Arabia happened, it was mostly due to their overreaction on a mild statement by us ?

Their regime is unstable....

The new "hip modern" Saudi royal leader is still an absolute monarch and a tyrant, a system we got rid of centuries ago.  Yay for a bit of women's reform but he crushes all dissent anyways, kills them, throws them in jail etc.  When Canada voices its dissent his reaction is to crush it too. That's the very reason we have due process rights and things like habeas corpus, because people in Britain centuries ago used to just be locked up without trial on the king's whim. 

Unfortunately we have a conflict of interest with SA between human rights principles, regional security, our own energy security, trade etc and we can't have all of them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 13, 2018, 08:45:39 am
Quote
human rights principles, regional security, our own energy security, trade etc

I don't understand 'regional security' or 'energy security'

Opposing SA shouldn't have any impact on those two should it ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 13, 2018, 11:35:33 am
Of course it doesn't. Is SA going to attack us because we oppose them on their human rights record? Doubt it. And we export oil so we don't need theirs. And even Trump is now waking up ( I assume his handlers gave him a cue card) and he is now saying SA will be "punished" if it turns out they did murder Kashogi. Yay for Donald.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 13, 2018, 02:07:29 pm
Of course it doesn't. Is SA going to attack us because we oppose them on their human rights record? Doubt it. And we export oil so we don't need theirs.

Do you know why the Canadian economy has taken a hit in the last few years?  Why the price of oil dropped significantly?  Why Alberta got its butt kicked?  Why this happened:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis

There's a very good reason the west kisses their ass and has been extremely active in the region increasingly since the fall of the Ottoman empire after WWI.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 13, 2018, 02:21:01 pm
Do you know why the Canadian economy has taken a hit in the last few years?  Why the price of oil dropped significantly?  Why Alberta got its butt kicked?  Why this happened:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis

There's a very good reason the west kisses their ass and has been extremely active in the region increasingly since the fall of the Ottoman empire after WWI.

Oil prices dropped due to over supply, an over inflated US dollar and a decline in usage as we head toward renewables. What's your point?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 13, 2018, 05:29:02 pm
Oil prices dropped due to over supply, an over inflated US dollar and a decline in usage as we head toward renewables. What's your point?

One of the main reasons is as you say, over supply.  Some OPEC nations, including the Saudis who are a traditional leader as their reserves are massive and their production is twice that of any other OPEC country, ramped up oil production to glut the market in part to undermine the rising market share of much more costly-per-barrel oil producers like US (shale etc) and Canada.  Iran I believe followed suit, as sanctions started to be lifted also with the nuke deal.

And it has worked, Canada's oil economy has been quite damaged, as have many others all over the world.  Saudis and other ME oil producers have seemingly limitless supply and can extract/produce cheaply.  If the Saudis/OPEC can weaponize oil like that, just like they did in 1973 (in a different way, by driving oil prices up), and purposely damage our economy like they have, they can do it again.  They just have to turn up the taps.  This isn't my theory it's a google search away.

Pissing off the Saudis for human rights tweets that will change virtually nothing inside that country isn't worth bad relations.  It's a cost/benefit thing. Leave that stuff to Amnesty International etc.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 13, 2018, 08:50:11 pm
One of the main reasons is as you say, over supply.  Some OPEC nations, including the Saudis who are a traditional leader as their reserves are massive and their production is twice that of any other OPEC country, ramped up oil production to glut the market in part to undermine the rising market share of much more costly-per-barrel oil producers like US (shale etc) and Canada.  Iran I believe followed suit, as sanctions started to be lifted also with the nuke deal.

And it has worked, Canada's oil economy has been quite damaged, as have many others all over the world.  Saudis and other ME oil producers have seemingly limitless supply and can extract/produce cheaply.  If the Saudis/OPEC can weaponize oil like that, just like they did in 1973 (in a different way, by driving oil prices up), and purposely damage our economy like they have, they can do it again.  They just have to turn up the taps.  This isn't my theory it's a google search away.

Pissing off the Saudis for human rights tweets that will change virtually nothing inside that country isn't worth bad relations.  It's a cost/benefit thing. Leave that stuff to Amnesty International etc.

And I'm sure you and Trump are pn exactly the same page. Who really gives a **** about human rights when oil is involved?!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 14, 2018, 12:26:54 am
And I'm sure you and Trump are pn exactly the same page. Who really gives a **** about human rights when oil is involved?!

It's not about oil, it's about our economies.  Even if Canada didn't have any oil, the 1973 embargo crisis taught the west a tough lesson not to **** off OPEC, especially its leader.  SA has the power to drive oil prices through the roof, as seen in 1973, which would make the cost of everything we buy and sell more expensive.

Even if we wanted to stand up for human rights in SA, what is Canada going to do about it?  Or the US, are they going to attack or put sanctions?  Didn't do sh!t for Iraq or Libya.  If the west got tough with every regime with horrible human rights records we'd have crappy relations with the vast majority of countries and trading partners in the world.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 14, 2018, 12:37:06 am
It's not about oil, it's about our economies.  Even if Canada didn't have any oil, the 1973 embargo crisis taught the west a tough lesson not to **** off OPEC, especially its leader.  SA has the power to drive oil prices through the roof, as seen in 1973, which would make the cost of everything we buy and sell more expensive.

Even if we wanted to stand up for human rights in SA, what is Canada going to do about it?  Or the US, are they going to attack or put sanctions?  Didn't do sh!t for Iraq or Libya.  If the west got tough with every regime with horrible human rights records we'd have crappy relations with the vast majority of countries and trading partners in the world.

Obviously you've never been to Iraq or Libya. I have and sanctions certainly did "do ****"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 14, 2018, 10:48:50 am
Obviously you've never been to Iraq or Libya. I have and sanctions certainly did "do ****"

Yes made human rights worse, not better.  You want Canada and the US to stand up for human rights within deplorable regimes.  In the last 50 years how often has western intervention made it better vs worse for countries? 

How often has verbal condemnation made any meaningful difference?  Meanwhile, trading with undemocratic regimes has been a factor in lifting billions of people within them out of extreme poverty. https://qz.com/798481/over-a-billion-people-have-been-lifted-out-of-poverty-since-1990-but-the-next-billion-will-be-harder/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 14, 2018, 12:21:44 pm
Yes made human rights worse, not better.  You want Canada and the US to stand up for human rights within deplorable regimes.  In the last 50 years how often has western intervention made it better vs worse for countries? 

How often has verbal condemnation made any meaningful difference?  Meanwhile, trading with undemocratic regimes has been a factor in lifting billions of people within them out of extreme poverty. https://qz.com/798481/over-a-billion-people-have-been-lifted-out-of-poverty-since-1990-but-the-next-billion-will-be-harder/

It's a very complex issue for sure. For instance while I certainly didn't approve of the US led invasion of Iraq, (Bush targeted the wrong country to retaliate against after 9-11, but of course he wouldn't dare have the balls to invade Saudi Arabia) and even though it's still no glowing example of a western style democracy, the economy and human rights have improved after the fact. And I doubt any more or less people will starve or suffer abuses in Saudi Arabia even if we choose not to ignore the act of taking a journalist who speaks out against the regime and murders and dismembers their body in their embassy.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on October 14, 2018, 12:46:50 pm
Taking a stand would be halting the sale of APCs to the Saudis. They could instead give them to our own military, who are starved for equipment.

Yes, lets buy them equipment they don't want or need - that will help.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 14, 2018, 01:20:20 pm
Let's build Energy East.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 14, 2018, 02:18:03 pm
It's a very complex issue for sure.

Yes I agree.  Article today says Trump has threatened the Saudis already with "severe consequences", and UK, France, and Germany are calling for an investigation.  This just caused a significant drop in the Saudi stock market, causing Saudi to threaten US/west by weaponizing its oil, exactly like I was taking about:

Quote
Saudi Arabia has said it will retaliate against any sanctions imposed over the disappearance of Jamal Khashoggi, as the Riyadh stock market had its biggest fall in years.  Donald Trump has threatened the US ally with “severe punishment” if Khashoggi, who has been critical of Bin Salman, has been killed.

The French, German and UK foreign secretaries ratcheted up the pressure by releasing a joint statement calling on the Saudi government to give a complete and detailed account of Khashoggi’s disappearance, adding that those found to be responsible must be held to account.

Riyadh vowed to hit back against any action. “The kingdom affirms its total rejection of any threats and attempts to undermine it, whether through economic sanctions, political pressure or repeating false accusations,” it said.

“The kingdom also affirms that if it is [targeted by] any action, it will respond with greater action.” The statement also pointed out that the oil-rich kingdom “plays an effective and vital role in the world economy”.

The Saudi response came after the Tadawul exchange in Riyadh dropped by 7% at one point on Sunday, the week’s first day of trading in Saudi Arabia.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/14/jamal-khashoggi-turkey-looks-to-uk-to-persuade-saudi-arabia-to-cooperate?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 14, 2018, 02:30:00 pm
Yes I agree.  Article today says Trump has threatened the Saudis already with "severe consequences", and UK, France, and Germany are calling for an investigation.  This just caused a significant drop in the Saudi stock market, causing Saudi to threaten US/west by weaponizing its oil, exactly like I was taking about:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/14/jamal-khashoggi-turkey-looks-to-uk-to-persuade-saudi-arabia-to-cooperate?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Ah well they are going to let women drive soon so they will need some extra oil to fuel that initiative.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on October 14, 2018, 02:43:18 pm
Let's build Energy East.

Let's build Energy Self Sufficiency. Energy East was not about that, lets make our #1 priority energy self sufficiency. Canadian oil to Canadian markets is part of that, as is development of fossil free alternatives.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 14, 2018, 02:43:57 pm
Yes, lets buy them equipment they don't want or need - that will help.

Be honest. You would oppose purchasing ANY equipment of any kind for the Canadian military.
As far as you're concerned they don't need ANYTHING.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 14, 2018, 02:44:48 pm
Let's build Energy Self Sufficiency. Energy East was not about that, lets make our #1 priority energy self sufficiency. Canadian oil to Canadian markets is part of that, as is development of fossil free alternatives.

Energy self sufficiency without pipelines. Wealth without working. Income without selling anything.

Let's have our cake and eat it too!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 14, 2018, 02:46:14 pm
Yes I agree.  Article today says Trump has threatened the Saudis already with "severe consequences", and UK, France, and Germany are calling for an investigation.  This just caused a significant drop in the Saudi stock market, causing Saudi to threaten US/west by weaponizing its oil, exactly like I was taking about:


It will pass. Nobody really gives a **** about this guy anyway. The Turks probably do as bad. They're known for hunting down anyone who criticizes Sultan Erdogan. And Trump could care less.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 14, 2018, 02:54:21 pm
Let's build Energy Self Sufficiency. Energy East was not about that, lets make our #1 priority energy self sufficiency. Canadian oil to Canadian markets is part of that, as is development of fossil free alternatives.

Exactly! Why, as we sit on a huge pool of our own oil, spend billions buying the junk from a country who murders people for being homosexual? To hell with the Saudi's and let's continue towards renewables.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 14, 2018, 02:55:42 pm
It will pass. Nobody really gives a **** about this guy anyway. The Turks probably do as bad. They're known for hunting down anyone who criticizes Sultan Erdogan. And Trump could care less.

We have a new crown prince who will be in power until he's senile or dead.  He not only harshly punishes criticism of him & his regime within his own country (nothing new), but also from us and our allies and exiled permanent residents within our countries.  He's caused this mess & either he's going to back down, or we are.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 14, 2018, 03:51:18 pm
We have a new crown prince who will be in power until he's senile or dead.  He not only harshly punishes criticism of him & his regime within his own country (nothing new), but also from us and our allies and exiled permanent residents within our countries.  He's caused this mess & either he's going to back down, or we are.

I'm confused here. Are you talking about bin Salman or Erdogan?
If you think bin Salmon is worse than Erdogan you're mistaken. He's just dumber. This was a dumb move, killing a guy in your own damn consulate with his freaking girlfriend waiting outside, when you know CC cameras are watching the door? Whoever organized this is a moron.

The Turks usually content themselves with kidnapping people, taking them back to Turkey, and slapping them in prison on trumped up charges.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 14, 2018, 04:00:01 pm
I'm confused here. Are you talking about bin Salman or Erdogan?
If you think bin Salmon is worse than Erdogan you're mistaken. He's just dumber. This was a dumb move, killing a guy in your own damn consulate with his freaking girlfriend waiting outside, when you know CC cameras are watching the door? Whoever organized this is a moron.

The Turks usually content themselves with kidnapping people, taking them back to Turkey, and slapping them in prison on trumped up charges.

How did his fiance become his "freaking girlfriend"? Oh right, it's sir argus talking about non white people.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 14, 2018, 05:36:53 pm
How did his fiance become his "freaking girlfriend"? Oh right, it's sir argus talking about non white people.

Does it make any difference, you sanctimonious little shitheel?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 14, 2018, 05:38:47 pm
Trump will be giggling like a little girl about this. If Mueller wants to look into foreign collusion, he should see if the Republicans arranged this, just in time for the mid-terms. I can't think of anything likelier to get Republicans out to the polls.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-caravan/honduran-migrant-group-treks-north-as-us-calls-for-tighter-borders-idUSKCN1MN0RA
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 14, 2018, 07:15:15 pm
Does it make any difference, you sanctimonious little shitheel?

Perhaps you shouid look up the meaning of that big word there and you might just see your own picture given the amount of times you have presumed to speak for "all Canadians" etc.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 14, 2018, 08:25:59 pm
I'm confused here. Are you talking about bin Salman or Erdogan?
If you think bin Salmon is worse than Erdogan you're mistaken. He's just dumber. This was a dumb move, killing a guy in your own damn consulate with his freaking girlfriend waiting outside, when you know CC cameras are watching the door? Whoever organized this is a moron.

The Turks usually content themselves with kidnapping people, taking them back to Turkey, and slapping them in prison on trumped up charges.

Talking about MBS.  I wasn't comparing them, they're both dangerous tyrants.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 15, 2018, 12:26:43 pm
 Talk about a waste of American taxpayer dollars, Trump has now sent Pompeo to Saudi Arabia. WTF for? What will he possibly achieve? Trump obviously hates journalists (or at least all the ones who don't work for faux news) so he simply shrugs his shoulders at one being murdered by his buddies at their embassy in Turkey. Do the American people not realize the fact their current POTUS is mentally deranged? Scary ****!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 15, 2018, 02:18:11 pm
And the plot sickens. Apparently the Saudi's are preparing to admit that Khashoggi was in fact murdered during an interrogation that "went wrong", whatever that means. And Trump comes up looking like a **** idiot yet again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 15, 2018, 03:23:28 pm
And the plot sickens. Apparently the Saudi's are preparing to admit that Khashoggi was in fact murdered during an interrogation that "went wrong", whatever that means. And Trump comes up looking like a **** idiot yet again.
What, you mean it wasn't some "rogue killers" like Trump was claiming?

I thought it might have been the Zodiac killer. Any idea where Ted Cruz was at the time?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 15, 2018, 03:27:59 pm
What, you mean it wasn't some "rogue killers" like Trump was claiming?

I thought it might have been the Zodiac killer. Any idea where Ted Cruz was at the time?

I'd like to know where Jarod Kushner was.
He is the MBS' bum boy after all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 15, 2018, 03:48:15 pm
Quote
What, you mean it wasn't some "rogue killers" like Trump was claiming?

I thought it might have been the Zodiac killer. Any idea where Ted Cruz was at the time?
I'd like to know where Jarod Kushner was.
He is the MBS' bum boy after all.
They may also look at Donald Jr. and Eric.... after all, don't they like to go to far off places and shoot things?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 15, 2018, 04:13:30 pm
I'd like to know where Jarod Kushner was.
He is the MBS' bum boy after all.
They may also look at Donald Jr. and Eric.... after all, don't they like to go to far off places and shoot things?

Yes and I bet they are getting their rocks off over this one.

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/15/657485097/idaho-game-commissioner-criticized-for-killing-family-of-baboons-in-africa
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on October 15, 2018, 05:20:17 pm
Be honest. You would oppose purchasing ANY equipment of any kind for the Canadian military.
As far as you're concerned they don't need ANYTHING.

When I get home I’ll give you my list.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 15, 2018, 05:47:58 pm
Yes and I bet they are getting their rocks off over this one.

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/15/657485097/idaho-game-commissioner-criticized-for-killing-family-of-baboons-in-africa

Sick puppy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on October 16, 2018, 12:44:20 am
When I get home I’ll give you my list.

I think that 15 surface combatants isn't enough - we need 24.  That's what we thought we needed before, after all.  Similarly, 4 subs isn't enough - we need 6 at the minimum.  I'd also say we could do with keeping 12 patrol vessels.  We also could do with 4 AORs, and not 2.

On the airforce side, we need to stand up another squadron of fighters for forward deployment to places like Comox, Goose Bay, Halifax, and Iqaluit, meaning we need not 88, but 120. 

I won't go into details of the other smaller changes.   I'd also shrink the army even further.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 16, 2018, 06:29:22 am
JMT has some detailed thoughts on this.  Very cool, but back on topic...

The election focusses on IMPORTANT ISSUES:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAvKZAPhOUU

That said, I have been engaging with deeply committed (insane cough cough) Trump devotees and there is actually no hope, I'm convinced.  I found a forum, or nest, and these are 'normal' people who have been plugged into bullshit news and are beyond saving.  It's hard to say if the US is actually f*cked but it seems so.

Your information systems are your country's central nervous system.  If you subvert those, it's like the human brain being damaged.  There's no way to get the right information on how to preserve the body, as delusions will take your attention away from what's important and damage your body going after hallucinations.

And the bad news is, to fix it in a positive way you need sanity.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 16, 2018, 08:48:20 am
I think that 15 surface combatants isn't enough - we need 24.  That's what we thought we needed before, after all.  Similarly, 4 subs isn't enough - we need 6 at the minimum.  I'd also say we could do with keeping 12 patrol vessels.  We also could do with 4 AORs, and not 2.

None of our subs work. And the patrol vessels we're building are slow and poorly armed.

Quote
On the airforce side, we need to stand up another squadron of fighters for forward deployment to places like Comox, Goose Bay, Halifax, and Iqaluit, meaning we need not 88, but 120. 

The only fighters available that won't be obsolete within a decade are the F-35s

Quote
I won't go into details of the other smaller changes.   I'd also shrink the army even further.

The army is the one we actually use, you know, that we keep sending on missions abroad, that we'd use if we ever had some kind of national crisis, be it an earthquake or violent uprisings, riots, etc. It's also the cheapest to buy equipment for.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 16, 2018, 11:21:02 am
Yep let's get a bunch of those F 35's We should be able to get a good deal now that they are grounded, worldwide, again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 16, 2018, 11:30:54 am
We need to order about 35 million AK-47s and lock them away in armories in every major city across the country for the day Trumpina wakes up unusually cranky.  Baha!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 16, 2018, 11:32:24 am
Yep let's get a bunch of those F 35's We should be able to get a good deal now that they are grounded, worldwide, again.


It was precautionary, all except the B's are back flying. Problem with a fuel line apparently.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 16, 2018, 11:44:43 am
None of our subs work. And the patrol vessels we're building are slow and poorly armed.

The only fighters available that won't be obsolete within a decade are the F-35s

The army is the one we actually use, you know, that we keep sending on missions abroad, that we'd use if we ever had some kind of national crisis, be it an earthquake or violent uprisings, riots, etc. It's also the cheapest to buy equipment for.

Our subs work but we need something that can operate for extended periods under ice.

Our new patrol vessels would get blown out of the water by the Dane's new patrol ships which are smaller. Really, a Bushmaster as the main armament for a warship. Good for policing, fisheries patrol and chasing drug runners but that's about it.

Like it or not, the F-35 is the only new design that will be available for decades.

We had a hard time maintaining a brigade in Afghanistan. That's about the minimum you need for a meaningful combat capability that can be semi independent. Could we even do that now? I don't know.


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on October 16, 2018, 01:27:39 pm
None of our subs work. And the patrol vessels we're building are slow and poorly armed.

All of our subs work.  The patrol vessels are constabulary in nature - you told me I was unwilling to spend money.  What I'm talking about would require an extra ~$10B a year.

Quote
The only fighters available that won't be obsolete within a decade are the F-35s

That's actually not true.  There are several options in the future, as well as today, including the Rafale and Growler with active stealth tech.

Quote
The army is the one we actually use, you know, that we keep sending on missions abroad, that we'd use if we ever had some kind of national crisis, be it an earthquake or violent uprisings, riots, etc. It's also the cheapest to buy equipment for.

I care less about trying to 'stabilize' Africa and the middle east than actually defending Canada from the few credible threats that exist.  Give disaster response to someone else, and leave the rest to the police.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 16, 2018, 01:46:59 pm
What worries me most about the F 35 is it's being touted as a one size fits all fighter and if we follow that approach we end up with all our eggs in one basket. (pardon my mixing of metaphors) and it seems it's not all that good a basket. I read recently that there is yet another multi million dollar contract out to try and fix yet another software problem where sensitive data, including mission details can be hacked, and that it's vulnerability to a well placed cyber attack grounding the whole fleet. Add to that the continuous sked delays and enormous cost overruns and I would conclude we need to shop around.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 16, 2018, 02:13:35 pm
Trump now has his scummy little fat boy Pompeo over in Riyadh kissing the Crown Princes ring, but not the one usually referred to. The ring he and his boss are now kissing is a little further south. How many more murderous dictators does this POTUS plan to "fall in love" with I wonder?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on October 16, 2018, 02:51:48 pm
None of our subs work.

The subs work fine. Do they spend a lot of time in dock being refitted, yes but so do all subs from all navies. They have a rotational schedule where one is in dock and the rest are in service. They are not the most capable subs in the world, but then they don't cost $US 18 billion a pop like the Virginia class, or $US 128 billion each like the Columbia class.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 16, 2018, 02:54:07 pm
All of our subs work.

We bought them as used a decade ago and they've spent most of that time in the dockyard.

Quote
The patrol vessels are constabulary in nature

Then they should be given to the RCMP or the coast guard.

Quote
- you told me I was unwilling to spend money.

You have not shown support for any military purchase of any kind, and support for the government postponing military procurement until at least the next decade.

Quote
That's actually not true.  There are several options in the future, as well as today, including the Rafale and Growler with active stealth tech.

The growler is the electronic warfare version of the F-18. The Rafale was developed in the 1970s. You think these will be flying for the next fifty years?

Quote
I care less about trying to 'stabilize' Africa and the middle east than actually defending Canada from the few credible threats that exist.  Give disaster response to someone else, and leave the rest to the police.

The police are not set up for disaster response and don't have the numbers. The police don't have the equipment or organization for any substantial organized civil resistance. That's why we had to fly them in from all over the country just to provide security for the G20 summit in Toronto. We needed the army for the FLQ crisis and the Mohawk mess. And whether you like it or not our government, particularly the Liberals, seem determined to send them abroad to dangerous parts of the world again and again. It's pretty despicable not to give them the proper equipment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 16, 2018, 02:57:21 pm
The subs work fine. Do they spend a lot of time in dock being refitted, yes but so do all subs from all navies. They have a rotational schedule where one is in dock and the rest are in service. They are not the most capable subs in the world, but then they don't cost $US 18 billion a pop like the Virginia class, or $US 128 billion each like the Columbia class.

The Virginia class cost is $3.2 billion per unit, about what we're going to pay for each of our frigates, from the looks of things.
The Columbia's are nuclear missile ships.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 16, 2018, 02:58:03 pm
What worries me most about the F 35 is it's being touted as a one size fits all fighter and if we follow that approach we end up with all our eggs in one basket.

You mean like we have with the F18?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 16, 2018, 03:02:15 pm
You mean like we have with the F18?

So you want us to spend billions to downgrade?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 16, 2018, 04:21:47 pm
All of our subs work.  The patrol vessels are constabulary in nature - you told me I was unwilling to spend money.  What I'm talking about would require an extra ~$10B a year.



Why do we need constabulary ships in the Arctic? Any foreign warships they meet will not be constabulary. The Danish ships carry a 76MM gun which with the 57 MM Bofors are the standard naval guns used by most navies. Our new ships have a 25MM pop gun.

Quote
That's actually not true.  There are several options in the future, as well as today, including the Rafale and Growler with active stealth tech.

Active stealth is just electronic countermeasures. The Rafale is a good aircraft but it first flew 32 years ago and needs ECM upgrades to try and keep it relevant. By the time we got around to replacing it, the design would be 70 years old. The Growler is an electronic countermeasures version of the Hornet. It has some strike capability and a couple of Sidewinders for self defence. It carries no gun and is the replacement for the EA6B Prowler. It is not intended as a fighter.

I am for a head to head competition though and may the best aircraft win.


Quote
I care less about trying to 'stabilize' Africa and the middle east than actually defending Canada from the few credible threats that exist.  Give disaster response to someone else, and leave the rest to the police.

You aren't going to defend Canada using Arctic patrol ships with Bushmasters as their main armament.

Who would someone else be? So give the DeWolfs to the RCMP and build some real Arctic naval vessels.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 16, 2018, 04:47:17 pm
Re: The F18, F35, and "putting our eggs in one basket"...
Quote
You mean like we have with the F18?
So you want us to spend billions to downgrade?
First of all, I think the point was that Canada has used single-type multi-role fighters before (which includes the F18) so using the F35 in the same sort of situation isn't a big change from the way things work now.

Secondly, our current fleet of planes are getting close to the end of their lifespans, and will need to be replaced, so the 'billions' will have to be spent regardless. Despite its problems, the F35 has considerably more capabilities than the F18, so we're not 'downgrading'. Furthermore, the cost of the F35 has dropped significantly since the project began, and at this point a fleet of F35s would likely be cheaper in the long run than a comparable fleet of F18s.

Of course, this is getting WAYYY off topic.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on October 16, 2018, 05:10:53 pm
Ahh, threads ebb and flow.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 16, 2018, 06:02:59 pm
Ahh, threads ebb and flow.

We could always ask the moderator to move the Canadian military discussion to the thread on the Canadian military. :-P
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on October 16, 2018, 06:11:24 pm
We could always ask the moderator to move the Canadian military discussion to the thread on the Canadian military. :-P

That sounds like work - I can split it and create a new thread, but I can't merge (stupid limitations of this system).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 16, 2018, 11:45:41 pm
MBS

Mohammad Bone Saw
attempts to

Mask a Blatant Scene
Trump buys in so he can

Make a Billion in Saudi
and so we see more of his version of

'Murican Bull ****

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 17, 2018, 05:51:49 am
Looked it up.

MBS=Mohammad Bin Salman Al Saud

Watch the TLAs please.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 17, 2018, 09:08:54 am
Watch the TLAs please.

STFU, MH.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on October 17, 2018, 09:31:49 am
STFU, MH.

 -k

LMFAO
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 17, 2018, 11:12:50 am
It seems the attempt to use the "horseface" insult to shift the discussion away from the murder in Turkey by the Saudi hasn't worked very well. You might say Trump's horseshit wasn't trumped by horseface.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on October 17, 2018, 12:33:51 pm
What worries me most about the F 35 is it's being touted as a one size fits all fighter and if we follow that approach we end up with all our eggs in one basket. (pardon my mixing of metaphors) and it seems it's not all that good a basket. I read recently that there is yet another multi million dollar contract out to try and fix yet another software problem where sensitive data, including mission details can be hacked, and that it's vulnerability to a well placed cyber attack grounding the whole fleet. Add to that the continuous sked delays and enormous cost overruns and I would conclude we need to shop around.
What should worry you about the F-35s is that they Republicans are bought and paid for by the Russians. The technology is the F-35s has almost certainly been created with backdoors, which were likely sold to the Russians by the GOP. The F-35s are a security risk.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on October 17, 2018, 12:54:22 pm
So Turkey drugged, killed, and dismembered an American journalist.  Can we even imagine the response of a REAL American government anymore? Now that the United States is headed by a Russian Governor, sweet **** all will happen. So much for that Second Amendment. RIP America.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 17, 2018, 01:02:43 pm
So Turkey drugged, killed, and dismembered an American journalist.  Can we even imagine the response of a REAL American government anymore? Now that the United States is headed by a Russian Governor, sweet **** all will happen. So much for that Second Amendment. RIP America.

I think it was actually the Saudi's that did the killing since it was in their embassy on Turkish soil. And while the jounalist was employed by the WAPO he was not a US citizen. That said I concur that so far FA has happened and with Trump at the helm you can not hold out much hope anything will. Just look at the video of Pompeo visiting with the crown prince in riyadh and it's clear all he is there to do is kiss saudi ass and run home and continue to support that the saudi's have no idea what happened.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 17, 2018, 02:10:00 pm
It seems the attempt to use the "horseface" insult to shift the discussion away from the murder in Turkey by the Saudi hasn't worked very well. You might say Trump's horseshit wasn't trumped by horseface.
I was watching the WWE last night (Yes, I watch professional wrestling... deal with it). The WWE is holding a special show in Saudi Arabia in the next month or 2. When it was mentioned, there were quite a few 'boos' from the audience.

Now, wrestling fans are not always the most liberal thinking people. (I suspect the demographics of their fandom skew slightly to the right. Remember, Trump is a member of the WWE wrestling hall of fame.) But if wrestling fans are vocal about Saudi Arabia, that should be a sign that perhaps the republicans should address the issue.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 17, 2018, 03:03:56 pm
Now, wrestling fans are not always the most liberal thinking people. (I suspect the demographics of their fandom skew slightly to the right. Remember, Trump is a member of the WWE wrestling hall of fame.) But if wrestling fans are vocal about Saudi Arabia, that should be a sign that perhaps the republicans should address the issue.

The great majority of Americans want more gun control and national health care. You think that's gonna influence the Republicans?
For that matter, two thirds of Republican voters want a border wall. That doesn't seem to be having any influence on the Republican party either.

They don't work for the public. They work for their political doners.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 17, 2018, 03:51:08 pm
I was watching the WWE last night (Yes, I watch professional wrestling... deal with it). The WWE is holding a special show in Saudi Arabia in the next month or 2. When it was mentioned, there were quite a few 'boos' from the audience.

Now, wrestling fans are not always the most liberal thinking people. (I suspect the demographics of their fandom skew slightly to the right. Remember, Trump is a member of the WWE wrestling hall of fame.) But if wrestling fans are vocal about Saudi Arabia, that should be a sign that perhaps the republicans should address the issue.

Lindsay Graham and Bob Corker are at least two prominent repubs who are speaking out strongly against the Saudi's and their involvement in the murder in Turkey, while Trump tweedles his thumbs and adjusts his hairpiece. He is of course speaking a lot about this arms sale to the Saudi's and of course he is lying through his teeth on that issue. What he isn't talking about at all is how much the Saudi's are spending supporting Trump's hotel business. Can you say "emoluments". 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 17, 2018, 09:06:44 pm
Lindsay Graham talks a good line but when it comes to showing up, you can't find him. That goes for a lot of Republicans who are critical of Trump but AWOL when it comes to acting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 17, 2018, 09:22:25 pm
Boring old white men who only want to keep their seats so they can continue to suck on the taxpayer'a tit and then go home to mommy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 17, 2018, 10:54:20 pm
So Turkey drugged, killed, and dismembered an American journalist.  Can we even imagine the response of a REAL American government anymore? Now that the United States is headed by a Russian Governor, sweet **** all will happen. So much for that Second Amendment. RIP America.

American resident, not citizen, from Saudi Arabia.  A bit different.

This would kinda be like Snowden, now living in Russia, walking into a US consulate in Turkey and the US kills him.  How mad should Russia be?  I dunno i'm just asking.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 17, 2018, 11:03:01 pm
American resident, not citizen, from Saudi Arabia.  A bit different.

This would kinda be like Snowden, now living in Russia, walking into a US consulate in Turkey and the US kills him.  How mad should Russia be?  I dunno i'm just asking.

Ha ha, send that one to Trump. he loves deflections.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 18, 2018, 11:00:21 am
Just hearing a report that Mnuchin will be staying home so no US representation at Davos in the Desert. I guess the audio that seems to indicate that Kashoggi may have been chopped up before he was killed may have had an effect.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 18, 2018, 01:07:44 pm
Lindsay Graham talks a good line but when it comes to showing up, you can't find him. That goes for a lot of Republicans Pretty much every republican who are critical of Trump but AWOL when it comes to acting.
I correct your post.

The fact is, while republicans may issue all sorts of complains about Trump about everything from his racism to his poor economic policy (tariffs), at the end of the day republican congress-critters will pretty much all line up to vote for what Trump wants... vote for the people Trump nominates for the supreme court or cabinet, vote for an Obamacare repeal. Even Flake and Collins are the same... they spout a lot of rhetoric about how bad trump is, but they do almost everything they can to help Trump enact his policies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 18, 2018, 01:49:06 pm
I pretty much agree but please don't "correct" my posts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 18, 2018, 02:25:38 pm
I'm sure Trump will be buoyed by the fact that Pat Robertson has now weighed in with his support for Donny's lack of any condemnation over the Saudi issue suggesting that the arms sale is more important than whatever may have happened in Turkey. Of course this is from the churchgoing scumbag idiot who suggests that earthquakes are caused by God showing his hatred for gay people. The "Birds of a feather"  concept comes to mind. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 18, 2018, 06:03:26 pm

The fact is, while republicans may issue all sorts of complains about Trump about everything from his racism to his poor economic policy (tariffs), at the end of the day republican congress-critters will pretty much all line up to vote for what Trump wants... vote for the people Trump nominates for the supreme court or cabinet, vote for an Obamacare repeal. Even Flake and Collins are the same... they spout a lot of rhetoric about how bad trump is, but they do almost everything they can to help Trump enact his policies.

They're afraid of the base.
Still and all, they won't give him his wall. Which is kind of weird since the base wants it too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 18, 2018, 08:08:33 pm
They're afraid of the base.
Still and all, they won't give him his wall. Which is kind of weird since the base wants it too.

Flake isn't running again so what is he afraid of?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 18, 2018, 08:47:29 pm
Anybody else listening to Hannity hosting Limbaugh on faux? They're chasing Hillary again. Their discussion would be hilarious except we know there are a nubber of knuckle draggers buying it hook line and sinker.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 18, 2018, 10:08:13 pm
I'm not at all curious
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 18, 2018, 10:31:27 pm
Don't blame ya. I tune in there every once in awhile just to round out the "news" landscape. I'll give Rush credit, he was not quite as fanatical as he seems to be when I see snippets from his own show.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 19, 2018, 05:32:15 am
Don't blame ya. I tune in there every once in awhile just to round out the "news" landscape. I'll give Rush credit, he was not quite as fanatical as he seems to be when I see snippets from his own show.

Well, as time goes on he seems more like a real journalist compared to what is happening today.  What will the next wave after Alex Jones look like ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 19, 2018, 01:56:48 pm
Flake isn't running again so what is he afraid of?

Alienating Republicans too badly. None of these people retire into private life. They retire into jobs for their financial backers, often involving lobbying.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 19, 2018, 03:07:39 pm
Looks like Trump can stop worrying about his collusion thing with regard to his election, and start dealing with the current Russian connection to the mid terms. Seems his buddy Putin is doing his job.

U.S. prosecutors have charged a Russian woman who works for an oligarch close to Russian President Vladimir Putin with attempting to meddle in the 2018 midterm elections, NBC News reported.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/politics/Russian-Woman-Charged-Interfering-2018-Election-498044321.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 19, 2018, 04:38:13 pm
Looks like Trump can stop worrying about his collusion thing with regard to his election, and start dealing with the current Russian connection to the mid terms. Seems his buddy Putin is doing his job.

U.S. prosecutors have charged a Russian woman who works for an oligarch close to Russian President Vladimir Putin with attempting to meddle in the 2018 midterm elections, NBC News reported.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/politics/Russian-Woman-Charged-Interfering-2018-Election-498044321.html

If you think Trump has any problem with Russian interference in the US election - for his benefit - then you really don't know much about the man.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 19, 2018, 04:47:42 pm
If you think Trump has any problem with Russian interference in the US election - for his benefit - then you really don't know much about the man.

If you haven't noticed his continuous ranting and raving trying to deny said interference then you really don't know much about the man.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on October 19, 2018, 08:08:19 pm
Trump has denied Russian collusion..
He has accused China of collusion in these mid term elections.
He has accused Democrats of colluding with China and a hoard of Latin migrants he claims are preparing to invade the US.
Trump engages in scape-goating no different than Hitler.
The only difference is he has not placed anyone in camps yet or set up the gas and ovens.
History is repeating itself. He is a recycled fascist. No more, no less.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 19, 2018, 10:15:35 pm
Trump is now apparently sucking up the latest horse **** the Saudis are putting out that Kashoggi died as the result of a fist fight that broke out in the embassy in Turkey. And of course he will abide by the investigation that MBS will head up. You'd have to be BC04  kinda dumb/bias to buy that crap. Where the hell is Lee Harvey Oswald when he's needed?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 20, 2018, 06:14:23 am
it's going to be a great comfort, when some kind of principled guidance returns to the American government.  Even if it's a democrat, though, there will be a loss of standing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 21, 2018, 10:34:56 am
The best thing which could have happened for the Republicans.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-central-american-migrant-caravan-swells-to-5000-people-resumes/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 21, 2018, 11:10:13 am
You know what?  I don't think there's going to be any "Blue Wave" next month.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on October 21, 2018, 11:13:44 am
You know what?  I don't think there's going to be any "Blue Wave" next month.

 -k

There won't be. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 21, 2018, 12:03:52 pm
You know what?  I don't think there's going to be any "Blue Wave" next month.

 -k

I despise Trump, and my feelings for the Republican party aren't much better. But I see no one and nothing from the Democrats that excites me in the least. The only one who seems likable is Biden but he's even older than Trump. Do the Democrats even have any policy ideas? I flip through the US network news shows every night at 6:30 and I couldn't tell you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 21, 2018, 01:03:41 pm
Hard to say how much local politics will play into this. Right now, who knows with the Senate but I wouldn't bet on the Republicans keeping the House. I also wouldn't bet against Trump in 2020.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 21, 2018, 01:19:32 pm
As much as I for one would be happy to see him impeached, I heard a political insider say once that there is thinking among Dems it would be better to let him finish his term and then vote him out else Pence would assume office and hand Trump a pardon which would halt prosecutions of the many charges he faces. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 21, 2018, 03:27:46 pm
The Democrats have to get past identity politics.  They clearly own the issue anyway, but they can't win based on just that. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 21, 2018, 03:42:26 pm
The Dems need to get their act together and select a good leader to head for 2020. Biden seems to be the best bet so far but then there is the age issue. O'Rourke might be a good choice. Too bad Obama couldn't get back in the game.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on October 21, 2018, 03:48:55 pm
There are a lot of other possibilities, including Michael Bloomberg and Eric Holder
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 21, 2018, 04:06:17 pm
There are a lot of other possibilities, including Michael Bloomberg and Eric Holder

Yes both of those guys certainly have the backgrounds to make them valid candidates. Certainly more background than O'Rourke, who in my opinion went off the rails a bit during his townhall with Ted Cruz. (Lying Ted) But in any case, and at this point, anybody who could make a policy that isn't contradicted from one day to the next would be at least a start. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 21, 2018, 04:45:02 pm
There are a lot of other possibilities, including Michael Bloomberg and Eric Holder

I like Bloomberg, but like Biden, he's getting up there. The Democrat leadership seems to be mostly composed of very old people. And none is very inspiring. Holder has baggage from his time as AG, which the Republicans would certainly capitalize on.  Plus he's Black. The Democrats need to persuade someone like Bill McRaven or Jim Webb to run..


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 21, 2018, 05:00:03 pm
Being Black didn't seem to hurt Obama, even though we all know there are those types who's votes are affected by skin color.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 21, 2018, 05:45:33 pm
Being Black didn't seem to hurt Obama, even though we all know there are those types who's votes are affected by skin color.

The idea of the first black president energized Democrats. Thats done. Eric Holder would energize the Republican base. Not a smart move.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 21, 2018, 06:35:06 pm
Biden is three and a half years older than Trump but looks like he is in a lot better shape. He is two years younger than Sanders. Bloomberg may be 76 but he also looks better than Trump and is a hell of a lot richer than Trump, so Agent Orange wouldn't be able to brag about that. They are all getting up there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 21, 2018, 08:45:17 pm
There's a year and a half for the Democrats to figure out  who's running for President in 2020.   The midterm elections are next month, and it's not going to go well.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 21, 2018, 08:49:07 pm
They need the younger generation to get off their f'ing stupid phones for a few minutes and go vote.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 21, 2018, 10:55:12 pm
The midterm elections are next month, and it's not going to go well.

go well for who?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 22, 2018, 01:27:01 am
go well for who?

It's not going to go well for people who want to earn $90/hr working from home, that's for damn sure.


Also, I think it will be a very disappointing night for people expecting a "Blue Wave".  I just have a strong hunch that Elephant Team will retain both the House and the Senate.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 22, 2018, 03:10:38 am
Can you make $90/hour working from home these days. I used to make a bit better than that but I had to trvel to the other side of the world to do so.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 22, 2018, 06:14:24 am
Can you make $90/hour working from home these days. I used to make a bit better than that but I had to trvel to the other side of the world to do so.

I haven't heard of that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 22, 2018, 09:23:22 am
Can you make $90/hour working from home these days. I used to make a bit better than that but I had to trvel to the other side of the world to do so.

If you had to go to the other side of the world then I'd have to say you were not really working from home...

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 22, 2018, 09:41:25 am
Also, I think it will be a very disappointing night for people expecting a "Blue Wave".  I just have a strong hunch that Elephant Team will retain both the House and the Senate.

One of the ongoing stories of this election cycle (and every one, really) is massive voter suppression. 

Gerrymandering is an ongoing issue. Republican-controlled states are purging names from voter lists for arbitrary reasons that for some reason always seem to disproportionately affect minorities and poor people and young people. Didn't vote last election?  Don't live in the same place you did a year ago?  Your name might get removed from the registered voter list without your knowledge.

Closing poll locations in areas with high minority population. Putting polls at locations that are difficult for people who don't have cars to get to.

It's a joke that the self-styled home of democracy allows such transparently obvious voter suppression tactics to go on.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 22, 2018, 11:41:47 am
It's a joke that the self-styled home of democracy allows such transparently obvious voter suppression tactics to go on.
If it means anything, the U.S. is no longer considered a "full democracy". Instead, its ranked as a 'flawed democracy'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 22, 2018, 11:58:30 am
The Dems need to get their act together and select a good leader to head for 2020. Biden seems to be the best bet so far but then there is the age issue. O'Rourke might be a good choice. Too bad Obama couldn't get back in the game.
Cory Booker might be an option...He's relatively young, has had a fairly high-profile from his appearances on the judiciary committee, and is seen by many as a moderate.

The main complaint against him might be the fact that he's unmarried, which will give the far-right to attack him as being gay, or a pervert, or whatever. (Not that the attacks would be fair, just that they might be effective given a certain portion of the electorate.)
 

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 22, 2018, 12:18:32 pm
Cory Booker might be an option...He's relatively young, has had a fairly high-profile from his appearances on the judiciary committee, and is seen by many as a moderate.

The main complaint against him might be the fact that he's unmarried, which will give the far-right to attack him as being gay, or a pervert, or whatever. (Not that the attacks would be fair, just that they might be effective given a certain portion of the electorate.)

And we can be quite sure there is a portion of that electorate that will eat whatever pablum is put before them. To wit: yon current POTUS.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 22, 2018, 02:28:36 pm
Just listening to Trump and "lyin' Ted" has now become "beautiful Ted" What the **** has made Americans so retarded as to support this scummy little twit?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 22, 2018, 03:11:03 pm
Cory Booker might be an option...He's relatively young, has had a fairly high-profile from his appearances on the judiciary committee, and is seen by many as a moderate.

The main complaint against him might be the fact that he's unmarried, which will give the far-right to attack him as being gay, or a pervert, or whatever. (Not that the attacks would be fair, just that they might be effective given a certain portion of the electorate.)


And he's not very experienced. I think that was a big part of Obama's problem. He ought to have waited another decade before running. Booker might be a good VP candidate, but if the Democrats want to ensure they get rid of Trump they need a centrist white guy - preferably ex-military.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 22, 2018, 03:21:35 pm


And he's not very experienced. I think that was a big part of Obama's problem. He ought to have waited another decade before running. Booker might be a good VP candidate, but if the Democrats want to ensure they get rid of Trump they need a centrist white guy - preferably ex-military.

Why must the candidate be White, or are you simply confirming that Americans are equally as bigoted as SOME Canadians?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 22, 2018, 03:42:24 pm
Trump now claims to know the group fleeing north from Central America are riddled with MS 13 and ,OMG, people from the middle east. That makes geographical sense right? And they must all be murderers right? But wait, some of those ME murderers, such as the crown prince of Saudi, now they are acceptable, as long as they provide the bucks to bail Trump's failing hotels out of bankruptcy. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 22, 2018, 06:26:13 pm
Why must the candidate be White, or are you simply confirming that Americans are equally as bigoted as SOME Canadians?

The Right down south are obsessed with Obama, and the big knock on the Democrats is their own obsession with race and identity politics. Part of politics is getting your own base excited but another part is not exciting the other guy's base. Putting out a candidate who is going to be seen as another Obama will definitely help Trump. On the other hand, a white, moderate male will cut the legs out from under the right wing outrage machine.

If I was Trump, and wanted to select a dream team to run against, I'd have it as Warren with Booker, or something similar. A capable white guy with a military background that the center and center left could be assured wouldn't go crazy with the identity politics stuff would pretty much guarantee he'd lose.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 22, 2018, 08:54:21 pm
The Right down south are obsessed with Obama, and the big knock on the Democrats is their own obsession with race and identity politics. Part of politics is getting your own base excited but another part is not exciting the other guy's base. Putting out a candidate who is going to be seen as another Obama will definitely help Trump. On the other hand, a white, moderate male will cut the legs out from under the right wing outrage machine.

If I was Trump, and wanted to select a dream team to run against, I'd have it as Warren with Booker, or something similar. A capable white guy with a military background that the center and center left could be assured wouldn't go crazy with the identity politics stuff would pretty much guarantee he'd lose.

And that's the sad part of politics, especially in the US were everything is just a game show. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 22, 2018, 08:58:36 pm
The Jerry Spinger-ization of America.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 22, 2018, 11:44:05 pm
The Right down south are obsessed with Obama, and the big knock on the Democrats is their own obsession with race and identity politics. Part of politics is getting your own base excited but another part is not exciting the other guy's base. Putting out a candidate who is going to be seen as another Obama will definitely help Trump. On the other hand, a white, moderate male will cut the legs out from under the right wing outrage machine.

If I was Trump, and wanted to select a dream team to run against, I'd have it as Warren with Booker, or something similar. A capable white guy with a military background that the center and center left could be assured wouldn't go crazy with the identity politics stuff would pretty much guarantee he'd lose.

You might be right.  It disgusts me, but you might be right.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 23, 2018, 05:58:13 am
https://www.amazon.com/Life-Movie-Entertainment-Conquered-Reality/dp/0375706534

This book captured it.  Published in 2000, at the dawn of the internet, it basically laid out current day.  The stories we tell reflect the world, but also how we want the world to be.  We then change the world to reflect our stories.

Think about two tribes who encounter each other accidentally, and engage in skirmish.  The story would be told to suit the narrative, within each tribe, so that the next time they were met the other tribe were fully demonized in the minds of all who heard the stories.

I have more thoughts on this, with regards to narrative and science, for another thread maybe...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 23, 2018, 10:58:34 am
Quote
Cory Booker might be an option...He's relatively young, has had a fairly high-profile from his appearances on the judiciary committee, and is seen by many as a moderate.

The main complaint against him might be the fact that he's unmarried, which will give the far-right to attack him as being gay, or a pervert, or whatever. (Not that the attacks would be fair, just that they might be effective given a certain portion of the electorate.)
And he's not very experienced. I think that was a big part of Obama's problem. He ought to have waited another decade before running.
Booker first got into the senate in 2013. If he runs for president in 2020, he will have served as a senator for  ~7 years. At least to me that sounds like a pretty decent length of time to figure out how the federal government runs. (And in that time he served on both the foreign relations and judiciary committees, both high profile and rather important.) Plus, he has experience as a mayor in New Jersey (sort of a semi-Executive position.)  I certainly feel he has enough experience, and don't really know how much more benefit he would get from hanging around Washington for another decade or so.

Plus, there are drawbacks of waiting. The longer you are around, the more chance that you will either be associated with scandals (deservedly or not), and/or will be seen as a Washington flack.

Quote
if the Democrats want to ensure they get rid of Trump they need a centrist white guy - preferably ex-military.
You may be right in that the Democrats may need to return to a more 'traditional' candidate to secure victory. But, elections are rather hard to predict. Another minority running for the democrats might energize the republican racists, but it may also entice black voters (who voted for Obama but often sat out the Clinton election) to return to the polls.

That's the thing about racism... Trump managed to use bigotry to his advantage, even though his opponent wasn't a minority herself. He doesn't have to run against a minority to whip up racist sentiment, he just has to use the appropriate dog whistle. "They won't protect our children from the evil foreigners".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 23, 2018, 12:15:30 pm
Booker first got into the senate in 2013. If he runs for president in 2020, he will have served as a senator for  ~7 years. At least to me that sounds like a pretty decent length of time to figure out how the federal government runs. (And in that time he served on both the foreign relations and judiciary committees, both high profile and rather important.) Plus, he has experience as a mayor in New Jersey (sort of a semi-Executive position.)  I certainly feel he has enough experience, and don't really know how much more benefit he would get from hanging around Washington for another decade or so.

He's on the edge. He has more than Obama had. I'd just like him to have a bit more, and show a bit more restraint. I wasn't that impressed with him on the Kavanaugh file, even though I think Kavanaugh should not be a judge at all, much lesson the SC. Mind you, I was a lot less impressed with the Republicans on that file.

Quote
That's the thing about racism... Trump managed to use bigotry to his advantage, even though his opponent wasn't a minority herself. He doesn't have to run against a minority to whip up racist sentiment, he just has to use the appropriate dog whistle. "They won't protect our children from the evil foreigners".

It's not racism. It's a belief that Clinton and her identity politics comrades don't give a **** about the white working class, that they're entirely focused on bettering the lot of various identity groups, and often at the expense of white working class males. Clinton was seen as entirely a creature of identity politics, and any female or minority person the Dems put up as a candidate this time around will be seen the same way. I agree that this is, to an extent, bullshit. The Republicans certainly don't give a damn about working class people of ANY race, for one thing. On the other hand, if all you ever seem to talk about is how to help this or that identity group which is being oppressed/discriminated against (and we know by WHOM) then it's fairly understandable that white people would believe your election will not be in their interest.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 23, 2018, 12:50:31 pm
 

That's the thing about racism... Trump managed to use bigotry to his advantage, even though his opponent wasn't a minority herself. He doesn't have to run against a minority to whip up racist sentiment, he just has to use the appropriate dog whistle. "They won't protect our children from the evil foreigners".
[/quote]

And he is throttling up that similar racism/bigotry on the eve of the mid terms by making unsubstantiated claims  that the so called "caravan" of migrants contains ME people, MS13 members etc. And he's also throwing out even more out and out lies saying his arms sale contract with the Saudis (which doesn't actually exist) will generate "a million jobs" while the industry actually provides around 300k jobs.  And it goes on and on however I'm convinced he knows what he is doing and that his base will buy whatever horse shyte comes out of his mouth, regardless of any facts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 23, 2018, 07:19:43 pm
The timing of this migrant caravan reaching the US border is going to be fascinating.  Nov. 6, they have lots of time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 23, 2018, 07:41:58 pm
The timing of this migrant caravan reaching the US border is going to be fascinating.  Nov. 6, they have lots of time.

Yeah, that idiot Trump claiming the Democrats are funding it when it's the best thing that could have happened for the Republicans.
Now if they can only persuade a Muslim to blow something up before election day...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on October 24, 2018, 10:12:49 am
Yeah, that idiot Trump claiming the Democrats are funding it when it's the best thing that could have happened for the Republicans.
Now if they can only persuade a Muslim to blow something up before election day...

Seems like they are persuading SOMEBODY to blow something up before election day......

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/explosive-devices-found-in-mail-sent-to-hillary-clinton-and-obama/ar-BBOPmDd?ocid=spartandhp

And CNN was being evacuated as I was driving to work this morning.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on October 24, 2018, 10:17:19 am
Seems like they are persuading SOMEBODY to blow something up before election day......

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/explosive-devices-found-in-mail-sent-to-hillary-clinton-and-obama/ar-BBOPmDd?ocid=spartandhp

And CNN was being evacuated as I was driving to work this morning.

This just makes me so sad. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on October 24, 2018, 10:23:48 am
This just makes me so sad.

There was one in George Soros' mailbox too.  Like George brings in his own mail..... ::)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 24, 2018, 10:25:31 am
Components of a bomb was also found outside George Soros' house the other day.  Police say likely connected to Obama/Clinton incident.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 27, 2018, 04:27:50 pm
I can't believe what I just heard Donald Trump say: asked if he might re visit gun laws in the wake of this latest shooting today in a synagogue, he points a finger at perhaps if they had a better screening process at the entrance this might no have happened. This ridiculous **** just passed the blame to the victims.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 27, 2018, 09:17:54 pm
And he goes on to say that he would prefer that there be armed guards posted at schools, churches, synagogues etc., rather than tightening up any gun laws. So, if you want to shoot a few Jews, Christians, school kids or whatever, just just wait 'till they leave the building, and you can ping away with that AR 15 you bought down at the local five and dime.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on October 28, 2018, 10:44:00 am
And he goes on to say that he would prefer that there be armed guards posted at schools, churches, synagogues etc., rather than tightening up any gun laws.

Now, now, he is just trying to provide a job market for low wage workers. 

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 29, 2018, 01:57:35 pm
Trump has made a congratulatory phone call to the new president elect Boisonaro of Brazil. This is a man who says he would never pay women equal rates of pay and that he feels bad that out of his five kids he has he must have been weak when he fathered one girl. He's also planning to send military support to Brazil quash any reaction from non supporters. So, now we have "Trump of the Tropics". The swamp gets even fuller!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/29/brazil-braced-mass-protests-jair-bolsonaro-trump-pledges-military/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 29, 2018, 02:38:41 pm
Trump has made a congratulatory phone call to the new president elect Boisonaro of Brazil. This is a man who says he would never pay women equal rates of pay and that he feels bad that out of his five kids he has he must have been weak when he fathered one girl. He's also planning to send military support to Brazil quash any reaction from non supporters. So, now we have "Trump of the Tropics". The swamp gets even fuller!

And what caused Brazilians to turn to this guy? Hmm? Years of incompetence and corruption and massive crime from leftist politicians. When the mainstream fails, that is when people turn to the extremes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 29, 2018, 02:58:44 pm
And what caused Brazilians to turn to this guy? Hmm? Years of incompetence and corruption and massive crime from leftist politicians. When the mainstream fails, that is when people turn to the extremes.

I wasn't referring to how he got elected, just pointing out that a guy who loves guns, hates gays, is racist,degrades women, has a criminal record, and is essentially a brutal dictator isn't someone the current POTUS should really cozy up to. But you seem to be fine with it?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on October 29, 2018, 03:43:16 pm
And what caused Brazilians to turn to this guy? Hmm? Years of incompetence and corruption and massive crime from leftist politicians. When the mainstream fails, that is when people turn to the extremes.

The mainstream in the US and  Canada and the UK is failing on both the right and the left as far as I can tell.  I don't see any solution at the moment and think war is coming.  But perhaps I am too pessimistic today.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 29, 2018, 04:14:53 pm
The mainstream in the US and  Canada and the UK is failing on both the right and the left as far as I can tell.  I don't see any solution at the moment and think war is coming.  But perhaps I am too pessimistic today.

Extremism seems to be rearing it's ugly head on many fronts these days, and unfortunately the man who has the potential to quell it is actually fueling it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 29, 2018, 07:23:48 pm
Extremism seems to be rearing it's ugly head on many fronts these days, and unfortunately the man who has the potential to quell it is actually fueling it.

Trump is not the cause, he's the effect.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 29, 2018, 07:28:50 pm
Trump is not the cause, he's the effect.

Nah, he is definitely part of the cause. Inviting people to commit violence by promising to pay their legal bills is a fairly obvious reason why.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 29, 2018, 07:37:33 pm
Trump is not the cause, he's the effect.

Trump is an enabler. His rhetoric serves to validate these people's actions in their own minds.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 29, 2018, 07:50:12 pm
The way he flip flops from saying one thing while sitting at his desk condemning these mail bombs, some of which were sent to CNN, and then standing up at a rally and continuing his rhetoric about "the enemy of the people" is just one more example of what a hypocrite he is.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 30, 2018, 10:23:13 am
The mainstream in the US and  Canada and the UK is failing on both the right and the left as far as I can tell.
How exactly do you mean 'failing'? Failing to get political power? Failing to come up with reasonable ideas? Failing to convince people?

Here in Canada, I did not vote for Trudeau. But, I still consider him (as well as all the other parties) "mainstream". And while I might differ with various parties over policy, I don't consider any of them to be "failures".

The U.S. is becoming a failure. (They are already ranked as a 'flawed democracy' instead of a 'full democracy'.) In my opinion that is largely due to the rise of the religious right and their takeover of the republican party. The 'mainstream' (represented by the Democrats) does have decent ideas. They are failing to gain political power though (although in their defense the Democratic candidate did win the popular vote last time.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on October 30, 2018, 11:18:53 am
How exactly do you mean 'failing'? Failing to get political power? Failing to come up with reasonable ideas? Failing to convince people?

I would say "persuade", not convince.  It doesn't matter if an idea is reasonable or not, there is no way to persuade people either way.  It's the "vaccine causes autism/no it doesn't" argument, over and over and over, about everything.  If the Liberals say one thing, the Conservatives and NDP say something else, a knee-jerk reaction - and vice-versa, of course.  There's no thought, no discussion about it.  It looks a lot like the interaction between a parent a two-year-old: the parent (Government in power) says X, and the two-year-old (political opponents) say "NO!"  This is amplified by media, and repeated endlessly on social media.

Quote
Here in Canada, I did not vote for Trudeau. But, I still consider him (as well as all the other parties) "mainstream". And while I might differ with various parties over policy, I don't consider any of them to be "failures".
Prior to coming to these political forums and prior to Trump's ascendancy next door, I voted for the party that made the most sense to me at the time.  Now, I am afraid to vote Conservative because I find the mindset of so many of the Conservatives who've posted on this forum and MLW so ugly - it's all about money and conforming; the people who suffer because they do not conform, and the destruction of our environment is of secondary importance. Too many simply ignore or dismiss science and experts in favor of their own opinion.  I understand that many Conservatives would disavow Trump, but he's in power over there and he's is progressing the alt-right agenda as quickly as he can.  Admittedly, this is good (or at least not harmful) for white, heterosexual men/women overall and if I were an American, I'd fit into that privileged class.  But I am not interested in benefiting at the expense of others who are different from me. 

I am terribly disappointed in Trudeau, I think the criticisms leveled at him are valid and I don't want to vote for him again.  But I don't want to vote for any right-wing party, not even such a moderate as Scheer in Canada.  Social conservatism is simply too much of a risk for me, personally, even if it comes wrapped in a promise of 'fiscal responsibility'.  Especially since the events of the world at large influence our economy at least as much as anything the current government does or doesn't do. 

Quote
The U.S. is becoming a failure. (They are already ranked as a 'flawed democracy' instead of a 'full democracy'.) In my opinion that is largely due to the rise of the religious right and their takeover of the republican party. The 'mainstream' (represented by the Democrats) does have decent ideas. They are failing to gain political power though (although in their defense the Democratic candidate did win the popular vote last time.)

Canada often follows the States by a few years and Doug Ford was recently elected in Ontario.  This is not to say that he is as off-the-wall as Trump, but he is following a similar, if less extreme track.  That worries me.   

Religiously based social conservatism is, in my opinion, one of the worst governing methods humans indulge in and leads to all kinds of oppression against women and minorities.   Scheer isn't likely to make drastic changes to our country even if he were elected.  But I don't want to give conservative religious types even that much power, so I probably will end up voting Liberal again even though I don't want to support Trudeau again.  (I have similar misgivings about Singh, but I doubt he's a contender anyway.)

It just seems to me that enmity keeps building between social conservatives and progressives, and that the ultimate outcome will be violence.   But as I said, perhaps I am being unnecessarily pessimistic.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 30, 2018, 11:49:20 am
Nah, he is definitely part of the cause. Inviting people to commit violence by promising to pay their legal bills is a fairly obvious reason why.

Twenty year ago Trump would have been laughed off the stage by Republicans. He won overwhelmingly, and then went on to become president. Why? Why, when he wouldn't have carried a single state 20 years ago? Trump and his ilk are popping up as a result of the failure of the political system to deal with the concerns of ordinary citizens. Or in some cases to even consult with them. If the US had secured its southern border 10 years ago Trump would not be President. If the parties in Washington had not become so completely enamored of their own short-term political interests and fights they let the government become gridlocked Trump would not be president. When the mainstream parties and politicians fail you election after election, more and more people will be willing to turn to a radical outsider. And that is what has happened in the US, in Brazil, in the Philippines, and in many parts of Europe. And the only thing keeping it from happening here is the right kind of rabble rouser hasn't shown up yet.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on October 30, 2018, 12:19:02 pm
I'd say they're popping up because people are being willfully ignorant.  When your concerns are based on ignorance or a lack of understanding, they don't deserve to be addressed, especially when you have a closed mind to the facts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 30, 2018, 12:38:48 pm
Twenty year ago Trump would have been laughed off the stage by Republicans. He won overwhelmingly, and then went on to become president. Why? Why, when he wouldn't have carried a single state 20 years ago? Trump and his ilk are popping up as a result of the failure of the political system to deal with the concerns of ordinary citizens. Or in some cases to even consult with them. If the US had secured its southern border 10 years ago Trump would not be President. If the parties in Washington had not become so completely enamored of their own short-term political interests and fights they let the government become gridlocked Trump would not be president. When the mainstream parties and politicians fail you election after election, more and more people will be willing to turn to a radical outsider. And that is what has happened in the US, in Brazil, in the Philippines, and in many parts of Europe. And the only thing keeping it from happening here is the right kind of rabble rouser hasn't shown up yet.

While I'm not convinced "the wall" is that much of a factor, (polls suggest less than half of all Americans support it, although it splits dramatically along party lines,) but I do agree the idea that those inside the beltway not seeming to give a rats ass about those outside is a big part of the reason Trump is now in there. When the political parties become so divided, especially in a two party system, it opens up a passage for someone like a Trump to bypass the turmoil, even though he has done not much more than add to it. And of course he wasn't elected by the people but by their outdated EC system. I suspect a lot of the more educated Americans are shaking their heads wondering what the hell have we done. I think they need to find some people other than the crowd of stodgy old honky's that have been stumbling around inside that Beltway for years now, and who know a bit more about what goes on outside it to put on the ballot next time. Or they can continue on being a laughing stock and isolated from allies other than the likes of Fat Kim, Putin, Dutarte and the like.     
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 30, 2018, 02:30:15 pm
Even though Trump tries to present himself as a friend of Jews, (he buddies up to Netanyahu, he moves the embassy to Jerusalem,) I suspect his endless racist rhetoric inspires people who hate other people, regardless of race, religion, color, to act on that hate and we now have a shooting and eleven dead in a synagogue. And he's about to barge into Pittsburgh shortly even though the Jewish community has asked him not to come. Hopefully his staff have written him some appropriate words and he stays on his teleprompter and not yet again make a fool of himself in such an emotional environment. He has recently upped the ante by declaring himself a "white nationalist" so there may well be many future opportunity's for him to jump on Air Force One show up in the aftermath of mass killings.     
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 30, 2018, 02:33:56 pm
I'd say they're popping up because people are being willfully ignorant.  When your concerns are based on ignorance or a lack of understanding, they don't deserve to be addressed, especially when you have a closed mind to the facts.

Yes, that has been the thinking of the elites since day one. They turn up their noses at the common types and their ignorance, and determinedly ignore them. And so the extremist groups rise and begin to take over.

As per my sig.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 30, 2018, 02:40:19 pm
While I'm not convinced "the wall" is that much of a factor, (polls suggest less than half of all Americans support it, although it splits dramatically along party lines,)

Don't mistake the polls. I don't support a wall myself. And I wouldn't if I was an American. Not as Trump envisages it. It would be too expensive, and impractical and ugly along major sections of the southern border. However, I DO support a wall or very strong fence along many parts of the southern border. As I said in an earlier post, this caravan is just the beginning.

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but I do agree the idea that those inside the beltway not seeming to give a rats ass about those outside is a big part of the reason Trump is now in there.

The Democrats had an unattractive candidate, and people are tired of their bought and paid politicians. They had the idea that a 'self made billionaire' like Trump would be immune to such concerns. The degree of Trump's greed and physical and intellectual laziness, as well as his utter ignorance took me by surprise, and I certainly knew of his many character faults before the election. So I can see where it would surprise many in the electorate.

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I suspect a lot of the more educated Americans are shaking their heads wondering what the hell have we done. I think they need to find some people other than the crowd of stodgy old honky's that have been stumbling around inside that Beltway for years now, and who know a bit more about what goes on outside it to put on the ballot next time. Or they can continue on being a laughing stock and isolated from allies other than the likes of Fat Kim, Putin, Dutarte and the like.   

That is a recipe for continued disaster. "stodgy old honkeys" have run the world quite well for generations. I'm not saying that you have to be white to be a leader, but they need to stop pushing people up and forward just because they aren't white and male. That just pisses off all the white people. Name a couple of black guys as Democratic candidates and Trump is likely to get re-elected.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on October 30, 2018, 02:41:11 pm
Yes, that has been the thinking of the elites since day one. They turn up their noses at the common types and their ignorance, and determinedly ignore them. And so the extremist groups rise and begin to take over.

As per my sig.

How should one respond to wilful ignorance?  I've seen you, more than once, claim that (what you perceive as) wilful ignorance by other posters deserve nothing but contempt.  Why is that ok for you, but not for 'liberals'?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 30, 2018, 02:46:11 pm
I just heard Trump state on a Fox interview (where the **** else would he go for an interview and be questioned by people smarter than him) and he tells us that the US is the only country that allows birthright citizenship. Sorry idiot, there are over 30 countrys, including your next door neighbors, that have the same provisions. Of course his followers won't be aware of that and want that god damn wall built.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 30, 2018, 02:50:18 pm
How should one respond to wilful ignorance?  I've seen you, more than once, claim that (what you perceive as) wilful ignorance by other posters deserve nothing but contempt.  Why is that ok for you, but not for 'liberals'?

Because I'm right and they're wrong.

And because, in a democracy, you don't simply sneer at the beliefs of half the country, or two thirds of the country, and dismiss them as ignorant and unimportant and not to be taken into consideration. The people believe as the people believe. We've had almost nothing but pro-immigration propaganda from two generations of government, media and academia and people still want a country that is filled largely with people like themselves. Telling them they're ignorant isn't going to do anything but produce resentment. And when it's mainstream politicians and mainstream media telling them they're ignorant and their opinions are invalid they'll seek other media sources and other politicians.

But the Left has such incredible intransigence over issues like culture and immigration. I think that the bulk of progressive, if faced with the choice of reforming immigration to slow it down and change source countries to less problematic ones, or having a fascist government take over, would still refuse, and accept the fascist government. Because they would feel more noble that way.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 30, 2018, 02:50:39 pm
Don't mistake the polls. I don't support a wall myself. And I wouldn't if I was an American. Not as Trump envisages it. It would be too expensive, and impractical and ugly along major sections of the southern border. However, I DO support a wall or very strong fence along many parts of the southern border. As I said in an earlier post, this caravan is just the beginning.

The Democrats had an unattractive candidate, and people are tired of their bought and paid politicians. They had the idea that a 'self made billionaire' like Trump would be immune to such concerns. The degree of Trump's greed and physical and intellectual laziness, as well as his utter ignorance took me by surprise, and I certainly knew of his many character faults before the election. So I can see where it would surprise many in the electorate.

That is a recipe for continued disaster. "stodgy old honkeys" have run the world quite well for generations. I'm not saying that you have to be white to be a leader, but they need to stop pushing people up and forward just because they aren't white and male. That just pisses off all the white people. Name a couple of black guys as Democratic candidates and Trump is likely to get re-elected.

If Obama could run again he would kick the **** out of that stodgy old honky before Donny got his hairpiece in place.

And in case you forgot, Obama is BLACK.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on October 30, 2018, 03:48:03 pm
Yes, that has been the thinking of the elites since day one. They turn up their noses at the common types and their ignorance, and determinedly ignore them. And so the extremist groups rise and begin to take over.

As per my sig.

But that's just it - no one actually thinks the things in your signature - that's an example of what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 30, 2018, 03:54:41 pm
Trump has just arrived at the synagogue in Squirrel Hill. There are a large crowd of protesters heading there as well. This could get interesting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on October 30, 2018, 04:13:49 pm
Because I'm right and they're wrong.
Debatable.

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And because, in a democracy, you don't simply sneer at the beliefs of half the country, or two thirds of the country, and dismiss them as ignorant and unimportant and not to be taken into consideration.

When a large segment of the population chooses to believe something that isn't true - for example - that vaccinations cause autism, what is the proper response, exactly?  Evidence can be provided that the original study was wrong, that the author of the original study has admitted he is wrong, that it's been demonstrated through many more studies that vaccines do not cause autism, and yet people will still believe. What do you do after that?  They will not accept facts or evidence; they are convinced by charlatans and liars and when that's pointed out to them, they claim that these charlatans and liars are the only ones that have the truth, that everyone else is in the pay of "big Pharma".  What do you do then?   

And if a large contingent of the population decides to ignore evidence and experts in favor of their own pet theories about climate change, immigration, sexual orientation and gender experience, why should the rest of us be held back by their rejection of that evidence and expertise? 

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We've had almost nothing but pro-immigration propaganda from two generations of government, media and academia and people still want a country that is filled largely with people like themselves.
Do they really?  Or is this just an idea that's been fed to them?  Because up until now, most people have embraced the idea that people can live peacefully together, even if they look differently, have different religious beliefs or even different cultures.  What's new in the mainstream is the White Supremacist idea that such a society is unworkable.  Instead of Canada and the States being able to pride themselves on their acceptance of differences, whether they called it 'assimilation' or 'multiculturalism', the WS have introduced the notion that 'it's not working' or 'has never worked', that we've all been misled by politicians with white guilt and that immigrants are ruining our great White Culture.  Yet, nothing has changed in terms of our way of life, our culture or our standard of living.  It makes no sense.

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Telling them they're ignorant isn't going to do anything but produce resentment. And when it's mainstream politicians and mainstream media telling them they're ignorant and their opinions are invalid they'll seek other media sources and other politicians.
Is it better to tell them lies and stoke fear about 'the other', then?   

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But the Left has such incredible intransigence over issues like culture and immigration. I think that the bulk of progressive, if faced with the choice of reforming immigration to slow it down
I personally don't much care if immigration is 'slowed down' as the evidence posted has persuaded me somewhat that it's no longer as important to the economy of Canada.   On the other hand, I don't much care if it stays the same or even increases, since there's no evidence of harm to Canada and our 'points' system seems to be working well in providing us with immigrants who can succeed both culturally and financially.   

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and change source countries to less problematic ones,
However, this strikes me as simply White Supremacy code for "no brown people".  Our history is replete with claims about immigrants who are assumed to be less loyal, less culturally appropriate, a 'danger' to Canada because they are just too 'different'.  Those accusations are almost invariably directed toward people who "look" different, and they have been invariably wrong.  In fact, every single group of immigrants has become culturally 'acclimated' to Canada's cultural norms, even those from 'problematic' countries - whether the country is last century's Japan or this century's Pakistan.  Today's immigrants show every sign of doing the same thing.  To say otherwise is simply a lie, as false as saying that vaccinations cause autism.    Why should such lies not be challenged and rejected?  Why shouldn't 'tribal' people be expected to look at and understand the evidence, and history, to work on their own assumptions and false beliefs, instead of demanding that their  'discomfort' with people who are different in appearance be catered to?   

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or having a fascist government take over, would still refuse, and accept the fascist government. Because they would feel more noble that way.
What?  That makes absolutely no sense.  The politics of "us and them" is YOUR politics:  you and those who agree with you are drawing lines in the sand about who 'belongs' and who 'does not', who is acceptable and who is not.  Doesn't fascism rely on fear to manipulate people:  fear that Muslims will implement Sharia law in Canada, kill gays, ****, beat and oppress women, that Blacks are criminals preying on those who work, that Liberals will destroy the country with progressive politics.   Isn't that what you do, every day on these forums - expound upon the dangers of Islam, Muslims, Blacks and progressives?   Should I subscribe to lies and myths in order to avoid people like Trump taking power?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 30, 2018, 05:00:26 pm
When pilots take their seats in the cockpit, one of them sits on the left, and the other on the right. And perhaps they have political views that are equally divided, but they manage to work together to complete a successful,safe journey. Why can't we get politicians to follow a similar protocol?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on October 30, 2018, 05:23:39 pm
And if a large contingent of the population decides to ignore evidence and experts in favor of their own pet theories about climate change, immigration, sexual orientation and gender experience, why should the rest of us be held back by their rejection of that evidence and expertise?
Your bias is showing. You blindly assume anyone with the label 'expert' is to be believed and not questioned. It is not that different from people who believe in a religion. Not all scientific knowledge is equally well founded and it is simply ignorant to conflate knowledge gained from well founded double blind medical studies with purely subjective opinions on things like "gender fluidity". If an expert says something they have an obligation to explain how they know and *and* acknowledge the limitations of the methods available to them. In many cases, an honest expert would admit they don't really know anything. Unfortunately, many so called expert expound their theories as if they are absolute truth and it should come as no surprise that people are skeptical of their faux certainty and suspect they are full of crap.
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 30, 2018, 05:33:20 pm
Your bias is showing. You blindly assume anyone with the label 'expert' is to be believed and not questioned. It is not that different from people who believe in a religion. Not all scientific knowledge is equally well founded and it is simply ignorant to conflate knowledge gained from well founded double blind medical studies with purely subjective opinions on things like "gender fluidity". If an expert says something they have an obligation to explain how they know and *and* acknowledge the limitations of the methods available to them. In many cases, an honest expert would admit they don't really know anything. Unfortunately, many so called expert expound their theories as if they are absolute truth and it should come as no surprise that people are skeptical of their faux certainty and suspect they are full of crap.

Are you trying to head this down to a discussion toward your global warming naysayer position? :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 30, 2018, 05:54:08 pm
But that's just it - no one actually thinks the things in your signature - that's an example of what I'm talking about.

They don't? Seen what's been happening in Europe the last few years?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on October 30, 2018, 06:14:12 pm
Yes, that has been the thinking of the elites since day one.
"The elites" aka, the educated.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 30, 2018, 06:39:42 pm
When a large segment of the population chooses to believe something that isn't true - for example - that vaccinations cause autism, what is the proper response, exactly?

You bring out scientists who inform them of all the studies which have been done which conclusively prove that vaccinations are safe and that they prevent millions of deaths.

But we're not talking about something you can prove one way or another. If people feel like they're being overwhelmed by foreigners in their own country, foreigners with strange and hostile beliefs, cultures, values and languages, then people are going to get upset, and if their feelings aren't paid attention to they're going to get angry. You can't bring any sort of scientist out to prove to them that their feelings are of no consequence. You cannot prove people's feelings, especially feelings which are derived from instincts, are wrong.

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And if a large contingent of the population decides to ignore evidence and experts in favor

There has been little expert evidence presented with regard to the various issues which come from immigration. We have opinions, and comforting words and stories, but little in the way of empirical evidence put together by neutral parties. In the last cite I posted, from the Citizen, I believe, you had a previous head of Immigration Canada quoting various studies done by government agencies and mostly neutral think tanks which strongly suggest there is little economic value or necessity for mass immigration, and that it will do little to address an aging population.

But again, that is economics, and while you can argue the economics of immigration the government has done a ****-poor job of it. And remember, it's not just economics which is tweaking emotions. It's feelings based on instincts. We are instinctively tribal, and we seek to be a part of a group which is much like us. Foreigners, with strange customs, dress, languages, beliefs and values, are 'other', and make many people uncomfortable if in large numbers.

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Do they really?  Or is this just an idea that's been fed to them?

By whom? All mainstream media is pro-immigration. You can't tell me two thirds of Canadians are complaining that immigrants aren't doing enough to fit in because they saw it on the Rebel.

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Because up until now, most people have embraced the idea that people can live peacefully together, even if they look differently, have different religious beliefs or even different cultures.

An easy belief to ascribe to when foreigners make up 2% of the population. Harder, but doable when they're 10%. But it gets progressively more difficult as they pass 20%. According to stats Canada the foreign born population will rise to between 25%-30% in the next fifteen years. In some cities the foreign born make up the majority. That is what is causing the rising anxiety among Canadians.
 
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However, this strikes me as simply White Supremacy code for "no brown people".  Our history is replete with claims about immigrants who are assumed to be less loyal, less culturally appropriate, a 'danger' to Canada because they are just too 'different'.

This is true. But you leave out a few pertinent facts about our history. First, we were a far, far more homogeneous, insular, and unsophisticated people in the past. And the foreigners in question were not all that different from us. They had largely the same values, religions and customs, with some tinkering around the edges. And there was less to resent them for because you knew they had to, one way or another, support themselves. They certainly weren't taking money from you or your children. Society was much less accommodating, persuading people to assimilate as quickly as they could.

Today's immigrants are from vastly different cultures from those of the past, and are also in constant touch with their homelands, slowing down assimilation. Their 'otherness' is also heavily reinforced, at least on the part of Muslims, by their religion, a religion hostile to most of the people here. In addition, we have a welfare state, which pays massive amounts of money to low skilled immigrants, whether they work or not. For many people, the support for a welfare state and it's income redistribution is dependent on it helping people who are part of 'our tribe', and many do not see foreigners that way.

Saying it's about skin is far too simplistic. The Lebanese guy who cuts my hairs is whiter than I am.

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Those accusations are almost invariably directed toward people who "look" different, and they have been invariably wrong.

The past is not a guide to the present or future given how wildly different it was for immigrants in the past. No government assistance, largely people of the roughly same religious and culture beliefs, no easy communication or travel between here and their homelands, etc.

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The politics of "us and them" is YOUR politics:

No, it's human nature. It's normal around the world. Granted, some people seem to have no problem being surrounded by foreigners. But many do.

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you and those who agree with you are drawing lines in the sand about who 'belongs' and who 'does not',

Yes, a humans have done during their entire history. It's instinctive by now.

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Doesn't fascism rely on fear to manipulate people: 

Hitler certainly made use of this instinct to focus people on the 'other' and suggest they were responsible for all life's ills. But that instinct was there long before Hitler. It's an instinct Trump is appealing to, as well. It's an instinct rising in Europe. It's an instinct rising in Canada. You can't, as I said before, tell people that they're wrong because your feelings aren't the same as their feelings. What you can instead do is compromise. But I see no interest in compromise on this subject from among the Left. I mean, Bernier's mere suggestion that even though he loved diversity, there could be too much, was enough to make the mainstream media set its collective hair aflame. A suggestion at the conservative convention that the government should consider doing away with birthright citizenship for foreigners who have babies here (but have no intention of living here) was greeted with horror and cries of racism. A suggestion we vet the values of potential immigrants drew shrieks of condemnation from every corner of the mainstream media for months. These are little things are emotional and angering but to people suspicious and doubtful about foreigners which would have virtually no impact on people here but the Left clearly is willing to fight to the death on their behalf.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 30, 2018, 06:43:52 pm
"The elites" aka, the educated.

There is nothing whatsoever that I've seen in my life to suggest politicians and members of the media are more educated than anyone else.  The number of morons in politics, who, despite having degrees, do and say incredibly stupid, venal things is amazing.

But you go ahead and portray them as the special people of insight and nobility and everyone else as rubes if it makes you feel better.

But if fascism or at least, extremist politics spreads and grows in Europe and the US and then into Canada, you'll be able to comfort yourself that you fought tooth and nail to make sure Canada never subjected potential immigrants to any sort of screening to ensure they weren't anti-Semites or misogynists or religious extremists, and to make sure nothing whatsoever was done to encourage them to assimilate.

After all, Canada has no culture anyway, so who cares?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on October 30, 2018, 06:44:50 pm
When pilots take their seats in the cockpit, one of them sits on the left, and the other on the right. And perhaps they have political views that are equally divided, but they manage to work together to complete a successful,safe journey. Why can't we get politicians to follow a similar protocol?

They do. The problem is that substantial numbers of their passengers don't want to go where the pilots are taking them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest4 on October 30, 2018, 06:47:38 pm
You blindly assume anyone with the label 'expert' is to be believed and not questioned.

What?  I should subscribe to conspiracy theories about how the government imposes a carbon tax for **** and giggles, and that the IPCC and scientists are screaming warnings about climate change because they want grants from government?

Your problem is that you have made it all about money for yourself, and then you assume it's all about money for everyone else too.  So of course the government wants to "take your money" through a carbon tax, and of course "scientists want to take your money through grants from the government" so they're in cahoots with the government to spread misinformation about climate change and about the effectiveness of the carbon tax. 

I don't think the carbon tax is going to fix sweet **** all either, not because it wouldn't work - it's been proven that it does - but because there are too many people like yourself who simply put roadblocks in the way of any kind of solution that they think might cost them a few extra dollars in a year and there are too many politicians who are willing to play to that concern. 

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on October 30, 2018, 07:25:36 pm
What?  I should subscribe to conspiracy theories about how the government imposes a carbon tax for **** and giggles, and that the IPCC and scientists are screaming warnings about climate change because they want grants from government?
It is fairly easy to layout the economic case that the government's carbon tax is a waste of money that accomplishes nothing of significance. We can speculate til the cows come home on the reasons why Trudeau is so keen on pissing away resources on futile gestures but you are living in a delusional fantasy if you think the tax will make any difference.

I don't think the carbon tax is going to fix sweet **** all either, not because it wouldn't work - it's been proven that it does - but because there are too many people like yourself who simply put roadblocks in the way of any kind of solution that they think might cost them a few extra dollars in a year and there are too many politicians who are willing to play to that concern.
Echo chamber thinking: you are asserting carbon taxes must work and if they don't it is not because you are wrong but because of the people who say you are wrong.

The fact is there are a few policies that would actually help reduce Canada's emissions such as stopping population growth by limiting immigration. But I suspect you will insist, like carbon tax opponents, that such a policy would be an economic disaster which raises the question: why should anyone support your pet CO2 mitigation policy if you are quick to reject CO2 mitigation policies that offend your ideological prejudices?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 30, 2018, 08:21:42 pm
They do. The problem is that substantial numbers of their passengers don't want to go where the pilots are taking them.

The pilots do, the politicians not so much. Maybe politicians should be required to take flying lessons before they run for office.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on October 30, 2018, 08:28:04 pm
I don't think the carbon tax is going to fix sweet **** all either, not because it wouldn't work - it's been proven that it does - but because there are too many people like yourself who simply put roadblocks in the way of any kind of solution that they think might cost them a few extra dollars in a year and there are too many politicians who are willing to play to that concern.

The kind of carbon tax that would work simply will not even be contemplated by any politician who wants to keep his/her job.  And there would be no chance whatsoever of getting enough cooperation, worldwide, to enable it to work if a figure could be agreed upon.

That seems so obvious to me I really can't understand the thinking of those who can't see that.

It's not that I mind paying it.  Charge it, and pay down the debt with it.  I wouldn't mind that at all.  Just don't imagine for a minute that the kind of carbon tax that you or I, specifically, will pay, will do anything to mitigate climate change.  It won't even change behaviour in any noticable way, according to some talking heads I heard on the Beeb.

And while people are arguing it will, climate change gets worse, and even more is required to fix it. 

What was that figure I saw today? Humanity has wiped out 60% of animal populations since 1970.  That's what our population is doing.  This is the same population that's affecting the climate. 

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 30, 2018, 08:49:36 pm
The kind of carbon tax that would work simply will not even be contemplated by any politician who wants to keep his/her job.  And there would be no chance whatsoever of getting enough cooperation, worldwide, to enable it to work if a figure could be agreed upon.

That seems so obvious to me I really can't understand the thinking of those who can't see that.

It's not that I mind paying it.  Charge it, and pay down the debt with it.  I wouldn't mind that at all.  Just don't imagine for a minute that the kind of carbon tax that you or I, specifically, will pay, will do anything to mitigate climate change.  It won't even change behaviour in any noticable way, according to some talking heads I heard on the Beeb.

And while people are arguing it will, climate change gets worse, and even more is required to fix it. 

What was that figure I saw today? Humanity has wiped out 60% of animal populations since 1970.  That's what our population is doing.  This is the same population that's affecting the climate.  So how much was that carbon tax again?

I guess if you made a reasoned argument you wouldn't get the "dumb" icons. Here's one hint, there is an agreement between China and India which are two of the worlds largest ghg emitters and they are ahead of their plans for reduction. Saying it's just impossible and throwing your hands in the air sounds very much loke a Donald Trumpish approach.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on October 30, 2018, 09:05:16 pm
I guess if you made a reasoned argument you wouldn't get the "dumb" icons. Here's one hint, there is an agreement between China and India which are two of the worlds largest ghg emitters and they are ahead of their plans for reduction. Saying it's just impossible and throwing your hands in the air sounds very much loke a Donald Trumpish approach.

Okay, when do you think greenhouse gas emissions are going to peak and start dropping?  Shouldn't be too long, if China and India are making such sacrifices, right?

(China can't even control its own provinces, according to the BBC: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45640706)  I didn't bother looking up India, but I'm sure their plans are as fragile)

You could always invoke Donald Trump to avoid answering.  It's the same as a dumb icon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 30, 2018, 09:10:56 pm
Okay, when do you think greenhouse gas emissions are going to peak and start dropping?  Shouldn't be too long, if China and India are making such sacrifices, right?

(China can't even control its own provinces, according to the BBC: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45640706)  I didn't bother looking up India, but I'm sure their plans are as fragile)

You could always invoke Donald Trump to avoid answering.  It's the same as a dumb icon.

I'll leave you to invoke Trump. More your style.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/22/opinion/paris-agreement-climate-china-india.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on October 30, 2018, 09:20:49 pm
I'll leave you to invoke Trump. More your style.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/22/opinion/paris-agreement-climate-china-india.html

Well Don, you believe your links, I'll believe mine, and we'll see.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 30, 2018, 10:01:21 pm
Well Don, you believe your links, I'll believe mine, and we'll see.

Hey are the folks over at MLW still praising Donald and ignoring science?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on October 30, 2018, 10:22:38 pm
Hey are the folks over at MLW still praising Donald and ignoring science?

Is my link wrong then?  Junk science?  Bunch of antivaxxers over at the BBC?

You can't trust anyone these days!

You really need me to like Donald Trump, don't you?  Unfortunately, I think he's a XXXX.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 31, 2018, 10:43:58 pm
Anybody seen Trumps latest TV ad where he has a death penalty murderer, who happens to be an immigrant, with the implication that this guy is representative of all immigrants? I can't find a link to it just yet but all the news (except maybe fox) is playing it. Of course Trump forgets to include in his ad that he is the son of immigrants. Of course the morons who support him will eat this **** like it was popcorn at a porno movie. I really do hope this backfires on him as it should, but his base will be invigorated by it. Scary ****! 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 01, 2018, 06:53:32 am
Popcorn at a porno movie? Mmmmm
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 01, 2018, 10:39:23 am
Mueller may have already subpoenaed Trump. A case being argued in secret is about whether a witness has to testify, and it involves Mueller and ... someone secret.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/world/how-a-careful-reading-of-court-documents-suggests-robert-mueller-has-already-subpoenaed-donald-trump/wcm/38d06731-d97a-4fb2-b44c-d7a5f28ffcc7
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 02, 2018, 02:35:49 pm
Just listened to Trump trying to lie his way out of what he said about telling the military they should shoot migrants who throw stones. Oh wait a minute, Trump telling lies, no news there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 02, 2018, 05:33:49 pm
Popcorn at a porno movie? Mmmmm

**** and Corn rhyme !
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 02, 2018, 10:23:32 pm
**** and Corn rhyme !

I saw a Welcome Back Kotter episode where Arnold has somehow got the key to the AV equipment room and the sweat-hogs are going to use the projector to watch a porno.  Washington is chanting "**** flicks for lunch! **** flicks for lunch!" but when the principal walks in Washington immediately changes it to "corn flakes for lunch! corn flakes for lunch!"

I'm not sure if they ever did get to watch their **** flick.  I think Mr Kotter caught them and gave them an important life lesson instead.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 02, 2018, 10:28:28 pm
Trump might not have literally killed anybody, but he and other Republicans willfully stoking panic and anger over this caravan for political gain.  He's saying the same stuff that Robert Bowers said before he went shooting at the synogogue.

Trump might not have started the fire, but he's wandering around with a gas can and he's handing out matches. 

 -k

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 02, 2018, 11:21:45 pm
Trump might not have literally killed anybody, but he and other Republicans willfully stoking panic and anger over this caravan for political gain.  He's saying the same stuff that Robert Bowers said before he went shooting at the synogogue.

Trump might not have started the fire, but he's wandering around with a gas can and he's handing out matches. 

 -k

I'm glad the Pentagon reacted to trump's suggestion that US troops should shoot stone throwers, if there are any among the caravan. Of course as per usual he backed away today from what he said yesterday. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 03, 2018, 12:40:38 am
I'm glad the Pentagon reacted to trump's suggestion that US troops should shoot stone throwers, if there are any among the caravan. Of course as per usual he backed away today from what he said yesterday.

It's pretty crazy that the US went from a beautifully & very carefully scripted guy like Obama who would deliver these masterful speeches, to a guy who just shoots BS off the cuff and doesn't really remember what he said an hour ago.

US might have well elected a random 4chan troll.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 03, 2018, 12:45:22 am
When pilots take their seats in the cockpit, one of them sits on the left, and the other on the right. And perhaps they have political views that are equally divided, but they manage to work together to complete a successful,safe journey. Why can't we get politicians to follow a similar protocol?

Politics and religious debates cause very deep emotions in people.  When they disagree it gets heated.  It's not like when ppl disagree on what to have for dinner.   I'm sure 2 pilots pretty much agree on how they want to get from point A to point B.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 03, 2018, 12:47:09 am
It's pretty crazy that the US went from a beautifully & very carefully scripted guy like Obama who would deliver these masterful speeches, to a guy who just shoots BS off the cuff and doesn't really remember what he said an hour ago.

US might have well elected a random 4chan troll.

I don't think Obama was always all that scripted. I think he was intelligent enough to speak on his feet. Trump? not so much. Either he reads rather adolescently from his teleprompter, or he goes off script and makes a complete and utter **** of himself. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 03, 2018, 12:49:17 am
Politics and religious debates cause very deep emotions in people.  When they disagree it gets heated.  It's not like when ppl disagree on what to have for dinner.   I'm sure 2 pilots pretty much agree on how they want to get from point A to point B.

My comment has **** all to do with what to have for dinner.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 03, 2018, 09:38:35 am
Trump might not have literally killed anybody, but he and other Republicans willfully stoking panic and anger over this caravan for political gain.  He's saying the same stuff that Robert Bowers said before he went shooting at the synogogue.

Trump might not have started the fire, but he's wandering around with a gas can and he's handing out matches. 

 -k

That's what he does. He finds out what people are angry about and then he stokes that anger. He encourages it and claims people need to support him because all the regular politicians will ignore the problem. And he gets away with it because... all the regular politicians ignore the problem.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 03, 2018, 09:46:47 am
A mass shooting in a Florida hot yoga studio has left 2 dead and multiple wounded.

I eagerly wait the learned pronouncements from Le Grande Orange that if only the hot yoga studio had an armed guard this would not have happened. Clearly all hot yoga studios need armed guards.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46082316
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 03, 2018, 11:23:08 am
The biggest difference is Obama’s rhetoric tries to inspire people, Trump tries to feed their anger.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 03, 2018, 11:50:29 am
My comment has **** all to do with what to have for dinner.

Neither did mine.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 03, 2018, 11:54:21 am
I don't think Obama was always all that scripted. I think he was intelligent enough to speak on his feet. Trump? not so much. Either he reads rather adolescently from his teleprompter, or he goes off script and makes a complete and utter **** of himself.

Agreed.  Obama was good on his feet.  But it was always well-calculated.  He never spoke before he thought, he was always thinking about how his comments would be perceived.  He was a politician.  I'm not saying that's a bad thing.  Trump has no filter between his brain and his mouth.  He sounds like a ranting racist uncle at thanksgiving.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 03, 2018, 02:13:13 pm
Boy, some people's Thanksgiving dinners are a lot more interesting than ours.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 03, 2018, 03:11:32 pm
Just heard a snippet of Trump campaigning in Montana where he continued to focus on immigration and talked about "just how beautiful barbed wire is". If he loves it that much I suggest they put a bunch of it around the WH and keep the moron penned in.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 05, 2018, 12:12:07 pm
I just heard that Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh will be taking to the stage with Trump at a rally tonight. Now that ought to be good for a hefty pile of steamy right wing horse ****. How many more lies will they help tack onto Trump's already record, record. I'm planning the popcorn right now. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 05, 2018, 03:18:28 pm
Believe it or not, even the fox pulled this Trump ad. Of course they did play it a few times so the morons who support trump could jack off a little bit.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVxUCnHck6g
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on November 06, 2018, 10:37:42 am
Just heard a snippet of Trump campaigning in Montana where he continued to focus on immigration and talked about "just how beautiful barbed wire is". If he loves it that much I suggest they put a bunch of it around the WH and keep the moron penned in.

Just reading this thread. Yah that comment was truly frightening.  He qualified it when said  at the end of the above, "when used properly". Which is even more bizarre. Hey cynide is a wonderful thing when used properly. Ask the rats.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on November 06, 2018, 10:38:50 am
Baron Trump, POTUS 2040 anybody?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/822952841639706624/zTV350F0_400x400.jpg)

Off limits to me. The kid did not have a choice who his father was.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 06, 2018, 03:23:16 pm
Exit polls soon. If the voter turnout in Georgia is any indication, I bet Trump is getting ready to hide under his bed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 06, 2018, 06:17:46 pm
Baron Trump, POTUS 2040 anybody?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/822952841639706624/zTV350F0_400x400.jpg)
Although suggesting he may run for POTUS when he's grown up isn't exactly an unconscionable attack. It's not like Rush Limbaugh going off about how he found Chelsea Clinton unattractive while she was still a young teenager. Or the monkey memes about Obama's daughters that were popular among Republicans like my crazy cousin in California.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 06, 2018, 06:24:21 pm
Hmm i now see the error in my ways and have removed the post.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 06, 2018, 10:49:53 pm
I bet Trump is throwing half eaten burgers and coke cans at his TV right now. Even Fox has to report the vote accurately.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 06, 2018, 10:54:43 pm
No TRump is reporting great success!  This guy i tells ya...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1060022696703070208
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 07, 2018, 02:53:37 pm
So Jeff Sessions has been fired and as we type Rod Rosenstein is en route to the WH and that will be the end of his job. Trump is obviously going after Mueller. Of course unlike Trump,  Mueller has an IQ that rises above the room temperature so I'm sure he saw this coming and has prepared. Can't wait to see his file. I can imagine BC over at MLW is ducking and dodging with his usual bullshit. I'll check there later.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 07, 2018, 02:57:45 pm
So Jeff Sessions has been fired and as we type Rod Rosenstein is en route to the WH and that will be the end of his job. Trump is obviously going after Mueller. Of course unlike Trump,  Mueller has an IQ that rises above the room temperature so I'm sure he saw this coming and has prepared. Can't wait to see his file. I can imagine BC over at MLW is ducking and dodging with his usual bullshit. I'll check there later.

And as usual, Trump, who is Mr "You're fired!" didn't have the balls to fire the man himself.
In fact, I doubt Rosenstein is going. Why would Trump call him to the White House to fire him? Trump doesn't have the courage to do that.
If he's fired at the WH it will be by Kellie, not Trump. Trump will be hiding somewhere until Rosenstein is gone.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 07, 2018, 03:10:10 pm
And as usual, Trump, who is Mr "You're fired!" didn't have the balls to fire the man himself.
In fact, I doubt Rosenstein is going. Why would Trump call him to the White House to fire him? Trump doesn't have the courage to do that.
If he's fired at the WH it will be by Kellie, not Trump. Trump will be hiding somewhere until Rosenstein is gone.

Oh yeah, Rosenstein is going. That's how he gets to Mueller.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 07, 2018, 03:38:47 pm
Rosenstein is irrelevant now. He will have nothing to do with the Mueller investigation. The only reason he did before is because Sessions recused himself.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 07, 2018, 03:53:33 pm
Rosenstein is irrelevant now. He will have nothing to do with the Mueller investigation. The only reason he did before is because Sessions recused himself.

Oh he's relevant alright because he's the only guy who can fire Mueller at the moment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 07, 2018, 04:29:45 pm
Oh he's relevant alright because he's the only guy who can fire Mueller at the moment.

Not any more, the new guy hasn't recused himself.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 07, 2018, 06:00:25 pm
Oh he's relevant alright because he's the only guy who can fire Mueller at the moment.

Firing Mueller at this point would do nothing for Trump. The Democratic House would subpoena all his findings, bring him in to testify on live TV, and then continue the investigation where he left off. Hell, they might even hire Mueller to lead their investigation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 07, 2018, 09:55:53 pm
Firing Mueller at this point would do nothing for Trump. The Democratic House would subpoena all his findings, bring him in to testify on live TV, and then continue the investigation where he left off. Hell, they might even hire Mueller to lead their investigation.

I'm not well enough informed as to the US judicial system to try and project outcomes but I would suggest the reason for getting rid of Sessions is to get to Mueller, and hide that file away for ever and ever amen. Sessions firing was no surprise to me, and Rosenstein is next. No surprise there either. I'm not a huge fan od Nancy Pelosi but listening to her press conference after fuckwad mcdufus heads gave me some hope for that country looking forward.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 08, 2018, 12:04:18 am
Jim Acosta's press pass revoked for no apparent reason other than asking too probing questions. Reflections of early 40's Germany?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on November 08, 2018, 12:27:23 am
Jim Acosta's press pass revoked for no apparent reason other than asking too probing questions. Reflections of early 40's Germany?

They used a doctored video from Inforwars as their justification.  Like someone on Twitter said - it's really too bad Acosta murdered that girl for a microphone.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 08, 2018, 02:22:52 am
They used a doctored video from Inforwars as their justification.  Like someone on Twitter said - it's really too bad Acosta murdered that girl for a microphone.

There really is some scary **** going on down there in my opinion. Hopefully congress will now be more able to focus on, and somewhat tether Trump's activities. Can you imagine being ruled by Kelly Anne Conway? I shudder every time I hear her.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 08, 2018, 03:37:41 am
Oops, another day, another shooting in the US. This time in Cal. so far 11 shot. Tighten gun laws? No fuckin' way, we right wing morons want everybody to have guns. Tune in tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 08, 2018, 11:06:48 am
Oops, another day, another shooting in the US. This time in Cal. so far 11 shot. Tighten gun laws? No fuckin' way, we right wing morons want everybody to have guns. Tune in tomorrow.

If we just gave more guns to bar patrons this wouldn't have happened. 😐
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 08, 2018, 01:26:07 pm
If we just gave more guns to bar patrons this wouldn't have happened. 😐

That's right. And I want my kids grade school teachers to be packin' while they read Dr. Seuss.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 08, 2018, 02:24:25 pm
One strategy I hadn't though of but am just hearing as to how Trump can try to thwart Mueller's investigation is to simply drain the budget down to were everybody just walks away. I suspect Mueller is smart enough to see that coming as well so hopefully he concludes soonly.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 08, 2018, 07:47:29 pm
So Trump has now hired anew attorney general who is a scam artist and thinks all judges should be devout Christians. Now we all know a lot of lawyers are scum suckers, and trump has added one more to his swamp.

Whitaker sat on the board of World Patent Marketing, Inc., an invention marketing company the FTC has called “a scam that has bilked thousands of consumers out of millions of dollars”, from 2014 until 2017, when a federal court in Miami temporarily halted the company’s operations and froze its assets. According to court filings, the FTC alleged that the company lured in customers by publishing fraudulent “success stories,” failed to deliver on promises, and took drastic measures to suppress negative reviews.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/acting-attorney-general-matthew-whitaker-ties-company-federal/story?id=59067838
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 08, 2018, 08:07:15 pm
So Trump has now hired anew attorney general who is a scam artist and thinks all judges should be devout Christians. Now we all know a lot of lawyers are scum suckers, and trump has added one more to his swamp.

I'm sure FOX has a different slant on things.

Oh look! They do!

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/11/08/judge-napolitano-matthew-whitaker-does-not-qualify-under-law-be-acting-attorney-general
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 09, 2018, 03:50:55 am
If the Democrats want to retake the Senate, Jeff Flake's seat is probably their best chance of flipping a seat, so Sinema vs McSally will probably be one of the most crucial elections in November.

On Tuesday night it had appeared McSally had won this race, but it was considered too close to be called.  But Thursday night, as mail-in ballots were being counted, Kyrsten Sinema edged ahead.  At last report she was ahead by about 2000 votes.  A Green Party candidate has picked up over 2% of the popular vote in Arizona... she dropped out at the last minute to endorse Sinema, but a lot of people had already voted by that point.  If she'd dropped out sooner, Sinema would probably have won comfortably.  Republicans had launched a lawsuit to stop the votes from being counted, but changed their mind when they heard that Sinema was winning.  Now they want to keep counting... at least until McSally is back in front.


And more excitement in Florida!  Most of us heard of Broward County for the first time in 2000, alongside phrases like "Hanging Chads" and "Punched Out Chads". (I've punched out a couple Chads myself...) and that tradition continues.  This time, it is Florida Governor "Red Tide" Rick Scott trying to win a seat in the US Senate against Democrat Bill Nelson.  People had called this a win for Scott on Tuesday, but Nelson didn't concede, and with good reason. The margin right now is 34,000 votes and there are a lot of votes still to be counted in Broward County.

The Republicans are launching a lawsuit to end the count. Marco Rubio is melting down on Twitter, Trump is declaring that "lawyers are trying to change the result", and conspiritards are calling for "patriots" to arm up and take to the streets to keep the Democrats from "stealing" the election.  This will be an interesting situation to watch.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/republicans-freak-out-as-new-ballots-threaten-florida-senate-win


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 09, 2018, 01:36:04 pm
I wonder if Trump is cursing at the tv on AF 1 today and feeling a bit of a crunch. There is apparently new evidence that ties Trump much closer to the **** star payoffs which shows he was aware of what went on and that puts him in violation of campaign finance laws. Also, a former Watergate investigator claims that Mueller can take his evidence straight to congress and completely bypass Trump. Never a dull moment around the WH these days it seems.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 09, 2018, 02:39:51 pm
Fox is talking about it.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/report-trump-played-central-role-in-hush-payoffs-to-stormy-daniels-and-karen-mcdougal
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 09, 2018, 02:40:41 pm
If you thought the American medical outcomes and environmental regulations were pro-industry and too lax for a 1st world country, you ain't seen nothing yet...

Quote
The Pruitt proposal “applies retroactively,” Wagner told me, meaning it would force the EPA to revise—and possibly weaken—nearly every rule protecting human health from air, water, or chemical pollution issued in the agency’s 48-year history.

That proposal has been condemned by nearly 70 scientific and public-health professional organizations, as well as by Harvard, the Association of Public and Land-Grant Universities, and the editors of Science, Nature, and Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

The experts also criticize an EPA directive issued by Pruitt in 2017 that remains in effect. That memo barred any university scientist who has received a research grant from the EPA from serving on an EPA scientific-advisory board or acting as a peer reviewer of EPA regulatory analysis. Notably, it did not put industry scientists under the same restrictions, even if they are employed by a company that could be financially hurt by EPA regulation.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/11/experts-warn-trump-epa-meddling-scientific-method/575377/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 10, 2018, 09:49:23 am
The migrant caravan got a lot of publicity but it's really not the focus of the problem. This is from one place along the border.

Julio Cesar Reyes, his wife and two-year-old daughter have been camping on the bridge in Juarez for three days. The family, fleeing gang violence in southern Mexico, first tried to cross at a bridge in New Mexico, but were told the border station was at capacity. “We’ll just wait here and if it’s not tonight, we’ll be here tomorrow,” he says. “If it’s not tomorrow, we’ll be here the next day.”
...
Now, migrants are being dropped off at the downtown bus station – thousands a week – so many that Annunciation House’s volunteers are having trouble getting enough Greyhound bus tickets.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-central-american-migrant-crisis-forcing-buildup-on-both-sides-of-us/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on November 11, 2018, 06:53:11 pm
If any of you Trump supporters doubt what a low life Trump is try defend how he did not attend war services because he did not want to get wet in the rain.

Without a doubt he is a disgrace to all American veterans for what he did Its past contemptable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 11, 2018, 07:58:01 pm
If any of you Trump supporters doubt what a low life Trump is try defend how he did not attend war services because he did not want to get wet in the rain.

Without a doubt he is a disgrace to all American veterans for what he did Its past contemptable.

Uh... there are no Trump supporters on this site...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 11, 2018, 08:30:12 pm
Uh... there are no Trump supporters on this site...

Uh, are you sure? I seem to recall someone here who seems to be quite supportive of his racist immigration policies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 11, 2018, 09:32:31 pm
Uh, are you sure? I seem to recall someone here who seems to be quite supportive of his racist immigration policies.

SJ has time and again shown disdain for Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 11, 2018, 10:02:32 pm
SJ has time and again shown disdain for Trump.
[/quote

For the man perhaps, especially in this environment as I pointed out, but not so much for the policies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 11, 2018, 11:48:01 pm


For the man perhaps, especially in this environment as I pointed out, but not so much for the policies.

There is a difference, if you pay attention.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 12, 2018, 11:02:11 am
For the man perhaps, especially in this environment as I pointed out, but not so much for the policies.

There are really only two policies I sort of generally agree on, and I don't think he's doing either of them right.

I agree that China has been cheating on trade issues for many years and they need to be brought to heel. I think he's doing it in a stupid, broad based way which won't work, however because it does not allow them to do anything while saving face.

I agree that their southern border needs to be properly guarded and that having tens of thousands of people crossing it illegally every week is unacceptable. I do not agree to putting a big bloody 'wall' along the entire length.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 12, 2018, 11:07:36 am
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/clinton-aide-2020-run-983684

Not to worry - the Dems have the answer in 2020 !  HILLARY CLINTON WILL RUN AGAIN - DO NOT WORRY !
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on November 12, 2018, 11:27:42 am
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/clinton-aide-2020-run-983684

Not to worry - the Dems have the answer in 2020 !  HILLARY CLINTON WILL RUN AGAIN - DO NOT WORRY !

She'll be fine, as long as the deplorables don't vote.  Could they arrange a Nascar race for that day perhaps?  Or a professional wrestling match?  That ought to do it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 12, 2018, 11:54:40 am
She'll be fine, as long as the deplorables don't vote.  Could they arrange a Nascar race for that day perhaps?  Or a professional wrestling match?  That ought to do it.

I like NASCAR.  Shut up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on November 12, 2018, 12:08:47 pm
I like NASCAR.  Shut up.
I haven't watched NASCAR in years. I lost interest when they pushed that "car of tomorrow" nonsense, many years ago. Has it improved? Or are they still pressing towards standardizing the equipment and putting strict limits on the teams?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 12, 2018, 12:11:19 pm
I haven't watched NASCAR in years. I lost interest when they pushed that "car of tomorrow" nonsense, many years ago. Has it improved? Or are they still pressing towards standardizing the equipment and putting strict limits on the teams?

Yeah, me too.  The Car of Tomorrow and 'the playoffs' as well as the endless tweaking actually did what no sport had managed until now: REDUCED interest and LOST FANS.

I 'like' NASCAR still but I barely watch it.  Maybe 2 races a year now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 12, 2018, 01:53:58 pm
They lost me with all the tinkering. Playoffs, competition cautions, stages etc. NASCAR became formula racing as soon as they stopped using modified production vehicles but I think there is too little opportunity for innovation even for a formula format. I'm also not a big fan of oval racing. I enjoyed the road courses, Watkins Glen and Sonoma because they reminded me a bit of the old Trans Am series.

I'll take F1.

I also really enjoy the SCCA runoffs when I can find them on TV.
Lemans also interested me until Audi and Porsche dropped out and it became a Toyota parade this year. Maybe someone else will jump in to give them some competition.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 12, 2018, 04:11:48 pm
The "tweet twit" is slamming Florida's vote recount process while ignoring that it is required by law. I'm sure Europe is glad to be rid of the idiot.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 13, 2018, 10:32:43 am
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/13/media/cnn-sues-trump/index.html

CNN suing Trump administration claiming restriction of constitutional rights.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 13, 2018, 12:56:40 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/13/media/cnn-sues-trump/index.html

CNN suing Trump administration claiming restriction of constitutional rights.
I noticed that Acosta was along with the press crew that accompanied Trump to France. I wonder if there was a little friction o AF1. I hope the suit is successful. He has quite a few to face.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 14, 2018, 10:36:47 am
I noticed that Acosta was along with the press crew that accompanied Trump to France. I wonder if there was a little friction o AF1. I hope the suit is successful. He has quite a few to face.
Don't worry... I'm sure he won't have any problem finding lawyers to represent him.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/28/politics/donald-trump-lawyer/index.html
Five large law firms are passing on the opportunity to represent the President...

Oops maybe not.

So lets see... what potential legal and civil trouble is he facing currently?

- Lawsuit by CNN
- 2 Emoluments case lawsuits
- First Amendment case involving twitter (currently in appeal after Trump lost)
- Lawsuit regarding Transgender rights in the military
- Trump foundation (brought by the state of NY)

And of course Mueller may have some surprises around the corner.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 14, 2018, 11:20:54 am
Don't worry... I'm sure he won't have any problem finding lawyers to represent him.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/28/politics/donald-trump-lawyer/index.html
Five large law firms are passing on the opportunity to represent the President...

Oops maybe not.

So lets see... what potential legal and civil trouble is he facing currently?

- Lawsuit by CNN
- 2 Emoluments case lawsuits
- First Amendment case involving twitter (currently in appeal after Trump lost)
- Lawsuit regarding Transgender rights in the military
- Trump foundation (brought by the state of NY)

And of course Mueller may have some surprises around the corner.
I imagine he has pondered the idea of whether or not he can grant himself a pardon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 14, 2018, 11:32:59 am
I imagine he has pondered the idea of whether or not he can grant himself a pardon.
To be honest I'm not sure how relevant that question is. Regardless of whatever crimes he is charged with, even if he can't pardon himself I'm sure Pence will be quite happy to do the deed should Trump get impeached.

The big question is... is there any way he can avoid state charges. I'm sure the D.A. from New York would be quite eager to bring his own set of charges against Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 14, 2018, 12:01:41 pm
To be honest I'm not sure how relevant that question is. Regardless of whatever crimes he is charged with, even if he can't pardon himself I'm sure Pence will be quite happy to do the deed should Trump get impeached.

The big question is... is there any way he can avoid state charges. I'm sure the D.A. from New York would be quite eager to bring his own set of charges against Trump.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I heard rumors o the news at one point saying the Dems didn't want to impeach Trump because if he simply gets voted out it removes the chance of a pardon ad the various charges could be brought.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 14, 2018, 02:39:56 pm
I heard rumors o the news at one point saying the Dems didn't want to impeach Trump because if he simply gets voted out it removes the chance of a pardon ad the various charges could be brought.
I figured the reason is that regardless of what crimes Stubby McBonespurs has committed (and whatever evidence they have against him), the Republicans in the senate will never ever vote to impeach. So, even if the house convicts him he won't be removed from office. And if the house votes to impeach but the senate does not, it may seem like the Democrats are just wasting time.

Better for the Democrats to concentrate on implementing useful policies (and going after trump in the background to challenge his credibility without actually impeaching.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 14, 2018, 02:52:47 pm
I figured the reason is that regardless of what crimes Stubby McBonespurs has committed (and whatever evidence they have against him), the Republicans in the senate will never ever vote to impeach. So, even if the house convicts him he won't be removed from office. And if the house votes to impeach but the senate does not, it may seem like the Democrats are just wasting time.

Better for the Democrats to concentrate on implementing useful policies (and going after trump in the background to challenge his credibility without actually impeaching.)
     I agree the house should use it's new powers to keep a tight rein on old Stubby and hope the voters do the right thing in 2020. Then let the courts do the indictments. They could carry a lot more punch than a simple impeachment that would in all likelihood still leave him in office.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 14, 2018, 08:09:28 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/13/media/cnn-sues-trump/index.html

CNN suing Trump administration claiming restriction of constitutional rights.

Interesting.  Not sure it will go through.  I don't know if freedom of the press means all journalists have access to politicians.  I think it means more like the gov can't stop the press from reporting certain stories.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 14, 2018, 08:11:21 pm
She'll be fine, as long as the deplorables don't vote.  Could they arrange a Nascar race for that day perhaps?  Or a professional wrestling match?  That ought to do it.

You mean, as long as 50% of the public doesn't vote.

She failed twice, she isn't a good candidate, people don't like her, they need to move on and find somebody better.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 14, 2018, 08:20:02 pm
Interesting.  Not sure it will go through.  I don't know if freedom of the press means all journalists have access to politicians.  I think it means more like the gov can't stop the press from reporting certain stories.

Oh I think it will go through. The reason the WH tried to give as to why they pulled his pass has been debunked by the video, so now it becomes a matter of Trump pulling a freedom from a professional journalist simply because he didn't like a question. Although I won't be surprised if the cooler heads in the WH won't work come up with some bullshit excuse and reinstate Acosta. Trump doesn't need any more bad PR.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 14, 2018, 09:58:28 pm
Well i hope cnn wins, but it might not be on the basis of a constitutional argument, but who knows.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 14, 2018, 10:01:44 pm
Well i hope cnn wins, but it might not be on the basis of a constitutional argument, but who knows.

I'm not sure what else they could argue it on. Perhaps he could say he was assaulted when the aide tried to rip the mic from his hands.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 14, 2018, 10:19:27 pm
There's a pretty intensive process to get white house credentials, they could claim the revoking simply wasn't fair.  The White House is saying he assaulted the woman, probably because they know they can't just say "he was rude".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 14, 2018, 10:26:59 pm
There's a pretty intensive process to get white house credentials, they could claim the revoking simply wasn't fair.  The White House is saying he assaulted the woman, probably because they know they can't just say "he was rude".

No Trump has now shelved the attempts to accuse Acosta of assault. The video is too clear that it was no such thing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 14, 2018, 11:17:18 pm
The president is super low-key of late.  I wonder if he's finally losing energy, and the will to fight.

Hope so.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 14, 2018, 11:36:56 pm
The president is super low-key of late.  I wonder if he's finally losing energy, and the will to fight.

Hope so.

Perhaps he's come around to realizing that being "high key" is what keeps getting him into trouble. His recent visit to Europe was a disaster, he was shunned by all the other leaders, (except his good buddy and murderous dictator Putin) and he failed to go to honor fallen US soldiers because it was raining. How much lower can he go?

And I can honestly say that I did not have to produce ID the last time I bought cornflakes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 15, 2018, 01:00:18 am
Wildfires rage through California, and Trump sends 5900 troops down to sit and twiddle their thumbs 90 miles north of the southern border to supposedly keep an eye on "the caravan". What a ridiculously retarded waste of resources. Trump has blood on his hands.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 15, 2018, 06:19:27 am


And I can honestly say that I did not have to produce ID the last time I bought cornflakes.

Don't know what this refers to.

My new theory, though, is that the Mueller investigation is moving forward behind the scenes and he is occupied with that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 15, 2018, 11:19:56 am
Don't know what this refers to.

My new theory, though, is that the Mueller investigation is moving forward behind the scenes and he is occupied with that.

Trump was babbling on about voter fraud with relation to the Florida recounts saying he thinks people were casting a ballot, then going home and changing their clothes and going back to vote again. This led him to comment about voter ID and he said you need ID to buy a box of breakfast cereal in the US. And nope I'm not makin' this up, I saw/heard him on camera.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 15, 2018, 12:20:32 pm
I doubt Trump has ever bought a box of breakfast cereal or any other groceries.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 15, 2018, 12:22:44 pm
I doubt Trump has ever bought a box of breakfast cereal or any other groceries.

Way too healthy for Trump. He prefers burgers, fries and cokes every meal.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 15, 2018, 12:56:00 pm
Way too healthy for Trump. He prefers burgers, fries and cokes every meal.
That's DIET coke. He has to watch his figure you know.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/11/health/diet-coke-trump-health-effects/index.html

There are some people who think that Trump's drinking Diet Coke is actually bad for the brand image (since they want to attract younger consumers). But hey, at least they dominate the aging racist demographic!

https://adage.com/article/cmo-strategy/diet-coke-a-trump-problem/315055/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 15, 2018, 01:11:20 pm
That's DIET coke. He has to watch his figure you know.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/11/health/diet-coke-trump-health-effects/index.html

There are some people who think that Trump's drinking Diet Coke is actually bad for the brand image (since they want to attract younger consumers). But hey, at least they dominate the aging racist demographic!

https://adage.com/article/cmo-strategy/diet-coke-a-trump-problem/315055/

12 cans a day, wow! I think I'd trust the man a little more if he took a sip of single malt every now and then. All that aspartame is maybe what's clogging up his brain cells.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 15, 2018, 04:11:21 pm
Way too healthy for Trump. He prefers burgers, fries and cokes every meal.

I doubt he ever bought those either. That’s what flunkies are for.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 15, 2018, 04:19:21 pm
I doubt he ever bought those either. That’s what flunkies are for.

I would assume he has issued his flunkies the proper ID's so they can shop Macdonalds.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 15, 2018, 04:44:56 pm
Trump was probably being facetious about the cereal thing.  But Trump gets clicks so media will jump on anything apparently.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 15, 2018, 04:47:34 pm
Maybe he did mean it i dunno.  Maybe he is that out of touch.

Quote
Photo ID is required when purchasing alcohol, cigarettes, some medicines, and occasionally when verifying purchases made with a credit card or, decreasingly, with a check. In a small number of states, identification photos are included on food stamp cards for low income families, and several chains, such as Costco, may require identification when applying for membership.

The President said in August: "You know, if you go out and you want to buy groceries, you need a picture on a card, you need ID. You go out and you want to buy anything, you need ID and you need your picture."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/15/politics/cereal-voter-id-donald-trump/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on November 15, 2018, 04:48:34 pm
In his defence, a lot of stores make you use ID with a credit card - that COULD be what he means.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 15, 2018, 04:54:14 pm
Trump was probably being facetious about the cereal thing.  But Trump gets clicks so media will jump on anything apparently.

He was just being his typical crybaby self over the fact the blue wave is perhaps a little stronger as the recounts occur.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 15, 2018, 04:55:43 pm
In his defence, a lot of stores make you use ID with a credit card - that COULD be what he means.
Maybe that's what he meant. But that's not what he said.

He presented it as "you NEED ID to buy cereal". No, you need money to buy cereal. If its paper currency you have, then you don't need ID.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 15, 2018, 05:08:05 pm
I think you should need photo ID to vote, at least in Canada.  99.999% of the adult citizen population has a health card or drivers license or provincial photo ID or passport & virtually everyone has at least 1 of the former 3 on them at most times.  I know this because I worked a job where you needed to show ID, and lots of poor people came too.

In the US it might be a bit different because they don't have health cards (that I'm aware) and not everyone drives so less people would have photo ID, so i get their argument.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 15, 2018, 05:08:42 pm
I've never had a problem buying anything in the US using cash and no ID.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 15, 2018, 05:16:00 pm
I think you should need photo ID to vote, at least in Canada.  99.999% of the adult citizen population has a health card or drivers license or provincial photo ID or passport & virtually everyone has at least 1 of the former 3 on them at most times.  I know this because I worked a job where you needed to show ID, and lots of poor people came too.

In the US it might be a bit different because they don't have health cards (that I'm aware) and not everyone drives so less people would have photo ID, so i get their argument.

Trump's "argument" of late is that people are voting, changing their clothes, and then returning to vote again. It's laughable but not unprecedented, he still has his knickers in a knot over the fact Hillary whooped him in the popular vote by trying to say that was due to undocumented citizens voting, totally dis proven.voting. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 15, 2018, 05:29:38 pm
I think you should need photo ID to vote, at least in Canada.  99.999% of the adult citizen population has a health card or drivers license or provincial photo ID or passport & virtually everyone has at least 1 of the former 3 on them at most times.  I know this because I worked a job where you needed to show ID, and lots of poor people came too.

In the US it might be a bit different because they don't have health cards (that I'm aware) and not everyone drives so less people would have photo ID, so i get their argument.

Each state has it's own laws but you do have to be a citizen, 18 years or older, and provide some form of ID, but not always picture, especially if you are already registered.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on November 15, 2018, 05:30:56 pm
99.999% of the adult citizen population has a health card or drivers license or provincial photo ID or passport

First the math part, you are saying there are only 371 people without any of the above. I suggest it is much higher than that.

None of the above are proof of citizenship (eligibility to vote), not even a passport.
I expect the number of valid passport holders is fairly low, significantly lower than drivers licenses.
The health card does not include you address, so it really doesn't indicate if you are at the right polling place.
Many people do not have a drivers license, my estimate* is 4-5 million adults of voting age
Some provinces don't have provincial ID cards

*How I came up with the 4-5 million

36 million population total (2016)
8 million under 20 (2016)
25 million license holders (2016)

Note I couldn't find recent numbers for all categories so I settled on 2016. The age divisions from StatsCan are 15-19, so don't match with voting age. I assume about 40% of those aged 15-19 are eligible to vote. I also assume a larger percentage of those 15-17 drive than older Canadians. Yes, a little black magic here because I am working with imperfect statistics but I think the range is reasonable.




Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 15, 2018, 05:37:49 pm
I've never had a problem buying anything in the US using cash and no ID.

Yep, I bought a sailboat down there one time, sailed it from Marblehead Mass. to Key West and never was asked for ID once. I think I even bought some corn flakes in Chesapeake Bay. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 15, 2018, 07:06:39 pm
First the math part, you are saying there are only 371 people without any of the above. I suggest it is much higher than that.

Yes very likely. I was being facetious.  It was rather rare when I ever encountered anyone without a form of valid photo ID.

Quote
None of the above are proof of citizenship (eligibility to vote), not even a passport.

You shouldn't need proof of citizenship if you're already on the voting register.  IRCC et al. should inform Elections Canada etc if anyone ever loses their citizenship or right to vote, that should all be figured out before the register is made & voting cards sent out.  The point of the ID would be to confirm you are the person on your voting card & voting register.

Quote
I expect the number of valid passport holders is fairly low, significantly lower than drivers licenses.

Hard to say, but there's some people walking around without valid drivers licenses and expired/missing health cards, so a passport can be an additional option.

Quote
The health card does not include you address, so it really doesn't indicate if you are at the right polling place.

Your address isn't needed if it's on the register & you received your voting card in the mail.  You don't need any proof you live where you say you do to get it written on your drivers license.  If we needed proof of address, the best proof would be to bring a piece of mail with your name & address on it...like your voting card.  But that's not definitive proof either.

Quote
Some provinces don't have provincial ID cards

Go get a health card, you'll probably need it anyways.  50% of people don't even vote, & I imagine the people who walk around with expired health cards/licenses also often don't vote, because they either don't have the time/energy, don't have their **** together and/or are dumb, or just don't give a ****, or all of the above.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 15, 2018, 07:08:25 pm
I've never had a problem buying anything in the US using cash and no ID.

I once couldn't get cigarettes in Maine because they wouldn't take my Canadian passport as proof of age.  I think I was 38.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on November 15, 2018, 07:27:25 pm
You shouldn't need proof of citizenship if you're already on the voting register.

How is the voting register vetted? When I first voted back in the late 70's, there was a polling station in my high-rise apartment building. I don't remember if enumerators came to the door prior to the election, but I assume so. At that time the only ID I had was a student ID, and maybe a bus pass, although I doubt it was asked for by the enumerators. I remember the building superintendent was working the polling station, and didn't ask me who I was because he knew. It is only in maybe the last couple of elections I can remember ever being asked for an ID at the polling station, and before that they usually asked for the card I got in the mail but maybe 15+ years ago or so they were not even fussy about that. Whenever I moved the enumerators might have asked for my old address but nothing else. I assume I was grandfathered in somehow.

This last election in Ontario however things got difficult. I moved, and couldn't change my address no matter what I tried. I first tried online, and it wouldn't work. I emailed, but never got a response. I was in the local city shopping and the regional office opened up in a mall so I stopped by. They couldn't get my address changed. They ended up giving me a certificate, signed by the returning officer. One day before the election, I finally received the voter postcard in the mail. When I showed up at the polling station and gave them the postcard, they couldn't find me on the list. Luckily I had the certificate from the returning officer, so they allowed me to vote. Seems Kemp has nothing on Ontario for voter suppression.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 15, 2018, 08:10:29 pm
How much do sailboats cost? One you could sail like that. That sounds scary but fun.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 15, 2018, 08:16:05 pm
I once couldn't get cigarettes in Maine because they wouldn't take my Canadian passport as proof of age.  I think I was 38.

I was between flights at O'hare one time with a couple hours to kill so I grabbed a slice of pizza and then a few steps away I pulled up a stool at a little bar and asked the gal if I could have a glass of wine while I ate the pizza. I was older than you were. She said "sure, can I see some ID"? I asked her how old you have to be to drink in Chicago, as I pulled out my wallet. She informed me that under state law, since she didn't know me she couldn't assume I was over 18 as that would be considered 'personal profiling". That Chicago pizza is pretty good though.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 16, 2018, 01:58:48 am
Trump disrespects US troops once again by not showing up on Veterans Day just as he failed to do so in France. Because it was raining a little bit and his **** stupid phony hair piece might have got wet. I'm a Canadian and have never served in either Canadian or US military,  but I have worked in support positions  with both of them in various war zones around the world, and I have the utmost respect. And if I ever get close to mr. gutless bonespurs, I will kick his ass around the block until the stupid hairpiece falls off and spit on him whilst I do it. And I hope bc04 is listening in at the moment to hear what I have to say about his buddy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 16, 2018, 03:44:24 am
It's hard keeping track of how low these people have gone, but in what might be a new all-time low, the Trump administration has been trying to convince Turkey to drop the investigation into the Khashoggi murder (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/white-house-weighs-booting-erdogan-foe-u-s-appease-turkey-n933996) in exchange for sending a US resident back to Turkey.

Now, I don't know anything about Fethullah Gulen.  He might be a bad guy, maybe he deserves to go back to Turkey to face justice.  Maybe he's a dissident avoiding persecution from a totalitarian regime.  I really don't know. It could be either, it could be both, it could be any number of other things.  All I really know is that he's living in the US as a legal resident and that Uberfuhrer Ergogan wants him sent to Turkey to get executed.

But what leaves me stunned is the idea that they're offering this guy to Turkey as a bargaining chip to get Turkey to back off the investigation into the Khashoggi murder. That's completely abhorrent regardless of the circumstances of Gulen's extradition.  They're trying to cut a deal to help Saudi Arabia literally get away with murder.


There's a joke that a true friend is somebody who'll help you bury a body and not ask any questions.  When it comes to Prince MBS and Jared Kushner...  I guess Jared is a true friend.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on November 16, 2018, 09:28:38 am
I agree with you Kimmy but I will say this. As dirty as that Saudi Arabian Prince looks in this matter, Erdogan exposing it to pose himself as some good guy concerned about human rights is a joke. Erdogan is a fascist. He has jailed thousands of journalists and multiple thousands of political opponents. He carries on a genocide against Kurds, and has ordered the killing of opponents. The US sucks up to him because he created what turned into Isis with the former Obama regime and because of the geographic positioning of NATO bases in Turkey. Erdogan is as soaked in blood as Iran and Saudi Arabia.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on November 16, 2018, 09:33:48 am
It's hard keeping track of how low these people have gone, but in what might be a new all-time low, the Trump administration has been trying to convince Turkey to drop the investigation into the Khashoggi murder (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/white-house-weighs-booting-erdogan-foe-u-s-appease-turkey-n933996) in exchange for sending a US resident back to Turkey.

Now, I don't know anything about Fethullah Gulen.  He might be a bad guy, maybe he deserves to go back to Turkey to face justice.  Maybe he's a dissident avoiding persecution from a totalitarian regime.  I really don't know. It could be either, it could be both, it could be any number of other things.  All I really know is that he's living in the US as a legal resident and that Uberfuhrer Ergogan wants him sent to Turkey to get executed.

But what leaves me stunned is the idea that they're offering this guy to Turkey as a bargaining chip to get Turkey to back off the investigation into the Khashoggi murder. That's completely abhorrent regardless of the circumstances of Gulen's extradition.  They're trying to cut a deal to help Saudi Arabia literally get away with murder.


There's a joke that a true friend is somebody who'll help you bury a body and not ask any questions.  When it comes to Prince MBS and Jared Kushner...  I guess Jared is a true friend.


 -k

Jared sucks up to the Prince, Trump to Kim and Putin, Obama to the Muslim Brotherhood, they all have their uses when one us in power. Satan comes in all kinds of forms to politicians if I may use that quaint analogy. They All dance with the devil for state interests of course. Bush and Bush had their Princes, so did Fo
FDR, Nixon, the list is long.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 16, 2018, 11:19:56 am
It's hard keeping track of how low these people have gone, but in what might be a new all-time low, the Trump administration has been trying to convince Turkey to drop the investigation into the Khashoggi murder (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/white-house-weighs-booting-erdogan-foe-u-s-appease-turkey-n933996) in exchange for sending a US resident back to Turkey.

Now, I don't know anything about Fethullah Gulen.  He might be a bad guy, maybe he deserves to go back to Turkey to face justice.  Maybe he's a dissident avoiding persecution from a totalitarian regime.  I really don't know. It could be either, it could be both, it could be any number of other things.  All I really know is that he's living in the US as a legal resident and that Uberfuhrer Ergogan wants him sent to Turkey to get executed.

But what leaves me stunned is the idea that they're offering this guy to Turkey as a bargaining chip to get Turkey to back off the investigation into the Khashoggi murder. That's completely abhorrent regardless of the circumstances of Gulen's extradition.  They're trying to cut a deal to help Saudi Arabia literally get away with murder.


There's a joke that a true friend is somebody who'll help you bury a body and not ask any questions.  When it comes to Prince MBS and Jared Kushner...  I guess Jared is a true friend.


 -k

Luckily Canada has the decency to have a section 7 in it's charter which in part says in essence "no extradition for execution". The US hasn't evolved that far and certainly it won't with "Mr. Phony Bonespurs" at the helm. And especially when he makes deals to put $billions worth of war material into the hands of murderers who use it to blow up school bus loads of kids.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 16, 2018, 01:26:34 pm
I hadn't thought of this description of Trump's admin. but George Conway came up with one I think is apropos " A shitshow in a dumpster fire". Kelly Anne must be pulling her hair out. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on November 16, 2018, 02:03:55 pm
How much do sailboats cost?

$1 - $300,000,000

Yes, there is a very wide range. The low cost ones are obviously fixer-uppers that the owners just want to get rid of to save storage costs. There are some very good bargains out there however, and if you are willing to put in a lot of work yourself then you could do so for say $30k (cost of boat, plus cost of materials to fix it up for something that is suitable for a couple to go inter coastal cruising with). Of course once you own it, the money flow doesn't stop.

If you do go for a fixer upper, then there are some important safety items that most likely you will need that are not cheap and may not be obvious at first. Never go out without a proper, in date, life raft; and that will set you back a few thousand or more (costs more if you want to do true blue water sailing). Aside from the superficial things that make the boat look nice and comfortable, there are a lot of items that are essential to proper operation you need to evaluate when buying used - if you don't have extensive experience, then get a professional survey. While you don't need fancy electronics, they have become very common to use in the past couple of decades and could set you back a small fortune.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 16, 2018, 02:05:32 pm
So ~5900 US troops, on Trump's order, get to live in tents on the southern US border instead of sitting down to dinner with their families at Thanksgiving, and do essentially nothing. US military is not allowed to engage in law enforcement on US soil. Oh but they get to string out some of what Trump refers to as "beautiful concertina wire". I'd be interested to hear some of the conversations going on within those tents just now. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 16, 2018, 02:13:37 pm
How much do sailboats cost? One you could sail like that. That sounds scary but fun.

When I bought mine the sort of rule of thumb was a thousand a foot, but of course that varied based on what equipment came with it: sail inventory, rigging, anchors, and on and on. One place you could get a good deal was Hawaii for the simple reason people would buy a boat on the west coast, head off to the islands without really knowing what they were doing, scare the shyte out of themselves, and then throw a for sale sign on it and fly home.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on November 16, 2018, 02:21:50 pm
One place you could get a good deal was Hawaii for the simple reason people would buy a boat on the west coast, head off to the islands without really knowing what they were doing, scare the shyte out of themselves, and then throw a for sale sign on it and fly home.

2500+ miles of blue water sailing is not the right place to start. Do a lot of coastal, or great lake sailing first. Even better would be crew on someone else's boat for your first blue water adventure.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 16, 2018, 02:30:44 pm
It's hard keeping track of how low these people have gone, but in what might be a new all-time low, the Trump administration has been trying to convince Turkey to drop the investigation into the Khashoggi murder (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/white-house-weighs-booting-erdogan-foe-u-s-appease-turkey-n933996) in exchange for sending a US resident back to Turkey.

Now, I don't know anything about Fethullah Gulen.

Gulen is a religious leader who was extremely influential in Turkey and once a partner with Erdogan. He soured on Erdogan when it became obvious Erdogan wanted to be an autocratic sultan and repudiate Turkey's secular system of government. Since then, Erdogan has blamed everything that goes wrong, and all the violence, including that halfassed coup attempt last year, on Gulen - with, as far as I can tell, zero evidence, and arrested and imprisoned anyone who was ever a part of Gulen's religious movement.

He has been demanding Gulen be returned. The problem for him - and Trump - is that the US courts require evidence Turkey is unable to supply. Perhaps, since Turkey no longer has any semblance of free courts Erdogan doesn't understand and thinks Trump can simply wave his hand and order the judges to make whatever finding he wants. That's not the case, however. And I doubt judges can be convinced to send anyone to stand trial in Turkey given the state of its legal system.
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 16, 2018, 02:33:47 pm
2500+ miles of blue water sailing is not the right place to start. Do a lot of coastal, or great lake sailing first. Even better would be crew on someone else's boat for your first blue water adventure.

That's for sure and that's why I started out heading south on the east coast. Lot's of places to run and hide if you need to. We did take a whoopin' crossing the Gulf Stream from Florida to the Bahamas, but we knew a fair bit more about what we were doing by then.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 16, 2018, 02:47:54 pm
Gulen is a religious leader who was extremely influential in Turkey and once a partner with Erdogan. He soured on Erdogan when it became obvious Erdogan wanted to be an autocratic sultan and repudiate Turkey's secular system of government. Since then, Erdogan has blamed everything that goes wrong, and all the violence, including that halfassed coup attempt last year, on Gulen - with, as far as I can tell, zero evidence, and arrested and imprisoned anyone who was ever a part of Gulen's religious movement.

He has been demanding Gulen be returned. The problem for him - and Trump - is that the US courts require evidence Turkey is unable to supply. Perhaps, since Turkey no longer has any semblance of free courts Erdogan doesn't understand and thinks Trump can simply wave his hand and order the judges to make whatever finding he wants. That's not the case, however. And I doubt judges can be convinced to send anyone to stand trial in Turkey given the state of its legal system.

In the US the SOS can order extradition.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 16, 2018, 02:56:57 pm
That's for sure and that's why I started out heading south on the east coast. Lot's of places to run and hide if you need to. We did take a whoopin' crossing the Gulf Stream from Florida to the Bahamas, but we knew a fair bit more about what we were doing by then.

I'm thinking maybe we need a "sail boat story" thread. I'm sure there are lots of stories to mine from that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 16, 2018, 09:48:07 pm
I suppose little "pissy pants" will be even more angry today after the courts order against him and reinstate Jim Acosta's hard pass.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 17, 2018, 11:56:49 am
In the US the SOS can order extradition.

Nope.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 17, 2018, 12:13:05 pm
Nope.

Um, yep.

Submissions

    The Secretary of State is the U.S. official responsible for determining whether to surrender a fugitive to a requesting state. Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. §§ 3186 and 3188, the Secretary or his designee makes this determination after a U.S. magistrate or district court judge transmits to the Department a certification of extradition finding that the fugitive’s extradition would be lawful under the pertinent extradition treaty and applicable U.S. law.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on November 17, 2018, 01:34:52 pm
I once couldn't get cigarettes in Maine because they wouldn't take my Canadian passport as proof of age.  I think I was 38.
It's Maine. They probably don't even recognize an American passport either.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 17, 2018, 02:20:50 pm
Um, yep.

Submissions

    The Secretary of State is the U.S. official responsible for determining whether to surrender a fugitive to a requesting state. Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. §§ 3186 and 3188, the Secretary or his designee makes this determination after a U.S. magistrate or district court judge transmits to the Department a certification of extradition finding that the fugitive’s extradition would be lawful under the pertinent extradition treaty and applicable U.S. law.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 17, 2018, 03:36:38 pm
Anybody making any bets as to whether Trump answered all of Mueller's questions "all by myself"? I'm betting BS. His lawyers wouldn't dare let him do that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 17, 2018, 04:06:18 pm
Trump now says the fires in Cal. were caused mostly by a "lack of raking". I'm going into the hardware biz. and sell a billion rakes down there. I'll be rich and there'll be no more fires.
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 17, 2018, 05:53:50 pm
Donald Duck now says he supports Nancy Pelosi. Where the hell did that come from I wonder?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 18, 2018, 01:44:23 pm
Trump apparently hasn't got the balls to listen to the tape that has emerged of Kashoggi's murder. I guess he doesn't want to be left with a bad impression of his Saudi bum boy by hearing what he's actually capable of.

But of course he's heading down to Mississippi later to hold two rallies in support of Cindy Hyde-Smith during the runoff vote for senate. You know her she's the gal that thinks those liberal kids in schools maybe shouln't be allowed to vote, and of course she'd enjoy attending a public hanging. She'd be in the front row she says.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 19, 2018, 11:40:00 am
Trump apparently hasn't got the balls to listen to the tape that has emerged of Kashoggi's murder. I guess he doesn't want to be left with a bad impression of his Saudi bum boy by hearing what he's actually capable of.
If it were any other president, I would not be bothered by the fact that he didn't want to listen to the tape. After all, it would be disturbing to hear, and a president could make an informed decision based on descriptions and analysis provided by the CIA and other security agencies.

The problem is not that Trump isn't listening to the tape, the problem is that he's not paying any attention to those who HAVE listened to the tape, and provided a full analysis of what it means in geopolitical terms. His incompetence and/or corruption is leading him to make questionable decisions in the matter.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 19, 2018, 11:52:32 am
If it were any other president, I would not be bothered by the fact that he didn't want to listen to the tape. After all, it would be disturbing to hear, and a president could make an informed decision based on descriptions and analysis provided by the CIA and other security agencies.

The problem is not that Trump isn't listening to the tape, the problem is that he's not paying any attention to those who HAVE listened to the tape, and provided a full analysis of what it means in geopolitical terms. His incompetence and/or corruption is leading him to make questionable decisions in the matter.

Yes I would agree that there is no real need for him to actually listen to the tape, he claims to have had a vivid description. The bigger problem here is that he seems to be dancing around the CIA's conclusion that they have "high confidence" that the Saudi Crown prince was responsible. So in similar fashion as when he sided with Putin over evidence of election interference over virtually all of his intelligence sources, he now sides with MBS over the CIA, and basically because Trump asked him and he says he didn't have anything to do with it. Who needs the CIA anyway?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 19, 2018, 04:10:11 pm
Well here we go again with another mass shooting in the US occurring right now, this time at a Chicago hospital. Apparently they have dispatched 10 ambulances to the hospital. Any bets on an AR15?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 19, 2018, 09:21:45 pm
Trump sends out a number of tweets where he refers to Adam Scfiff as "Adam Schitt" How much more low and childish can he go I wonder? I'm sure he can get even "swampier".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 20, 2018, 10:14:51 am
Trump administration literally trying to help the Saudi regime get away with murder:

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/saudis-using-pompeos-plan-shield-leadership-khashoggi-fallout-says-source-1684431379

I'm a little skeptical about this source, but the author seems to be a well established journalist:
https://www.middleeasteye.net/users/david-hearst


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on November 20, 2018, 10:47:32 am
Well here we go again with another mass shooting in the US occurring right now, this time at a Chicago hospital. Apparently they have dispatched 10 ambulances to the hospital. Any bets on an AR15?

You know as well as I do this obsessive compulsion/addiction  to assault rifles or weapons with high capacity rapid fire magazines will never end and so the US will continue to commit collective suicide because of this addiction. It doesn't seem the US will ever have its hallelujah come to Jesus epiphany type moment over guns. Didn't happen after JFK, MLK, RFK, the shooting of Reagan, or any or  all these non stop school killings, etc.The US is in deep collective denial over its gun problem and the majority feel they have no problem with their gun habit.

The only thing to ask, is who is next to be shot down.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 20, 2018, 11:05:05 am
You know as well as I do this obsessive compulsion/addiction  to assault rifles or weapons with high capacity rapid fire magazines will never end and so the US will continue to commit collective suicide because of this addiction. It doesn't seem the US will ever have its hallelujah come to Jesus epiphany type moment over guns.
U.S. attitudes towards gun politics are rather bizarre.

Most americans are actually in favor of stricter gun control laws, including bans on high-capacity magazines, increased age limits, background checks, etc. You would figure that would benefit the democrats. Yet when it comes to the idea of actually voting, many Americans will either ignore the issue completely, or fall in line with the republicans and NRA. "We want gun control! But the government might take away our guns."

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/28/gun-control-polling-parkland-430099
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 20, 2018, 11:38:49 am
U.S. attitudes towards gun politics are rather bizarre.

Most americans are actually in favor of stricter gun control laws, including bans on high-capacity magazines, increased age limits, background checks, etc. You would figure that would benefit the democrats. Yet when it comes to the idea of actually voting, many Americans will either ignore the issue completely, or fall in line with the republicans and NRA. "We want gun control! But the government might take away our guns."

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/28/gun-control-polling-parkland-430099

Bizarre indeed. For kicks I walked into a gun shop in Florida one time and looked around as if I was shopping. I went to the counter and explained that I was a Canadian visiting for a winter break and was wondering if it was possible for me to buy a gun. The only thing stopping me it turned out was that  BC drivers licenses those days didn't have a picture on it. The clerk told me all I had to do though was go down the street a ways to a motor vehicles office and they would accept my valid DL and issue me a Fla. one with my pic. and he could then sell me anything he had in the store. I didn't actually want a gun so I thanked him for the info and carried on. And as you say,whenever there is more thought to tightening gun laws, perhaps after another couple dozen high school kids get shot, and the government gets around to trying to draft a bill, "Oh no, you can't mess with our second amendment rights".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 20, 2018, 12:05:36 pm
Trump has given Saudi/MBS a pass on the Kashoggi murder by saying about MBS involvement "maybe he did, maybe he didn't" He hasn't even received the CIA official report yet, but he seems to have already dismissed it. Why let a little murder get in the way of a few gun sales?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 20, 2018, 02:46:33 pm
So I held my nose and listened to trump pardon a turkey so it wouldn't be killed. And not long before that listened to him pardon a murderer who arranged the killing of a human in Turkey. So all in all we have 3 turkeys involved, and the sleazy one just headed for Florida to play golf.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 20, 2018, 04:21:57 pm
Trump has given Saudi/MBS a pass on the Kashoggi murder by saying about MBS involvement "maybe he did, maybe he didn't" He hasn't even received the CIA official report yet, but he seems to have already dismissed it. Why let a little murder get in the way of a few gun sales?

I think the US should take what MBS did seriously, Trump shouldn't be brushing it off completely.  But to be fare there's a lot more to defense sales at stake.  They're a very important strategic regional ally, with deep economic links in energy.  We don't want to have a relationship like Iran with them over a slain Saudi ex-pat.  We need to pick our battles.  But again Trump shouldn't just do nothing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 20, 2018, 07:47:15 pm
How you get to be acting attorney general of the United States, just a few short years off the prairie as a small time lawyer.
Hint: if you think it might involve shady deals and ethics, well yeah.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/conservative-nonprofit-with-obscure-roots-and-undisclosed-funders-paid-matthew-whitaker-12-million/2018/11/20/25ff987e-e9db-11e8-bd89-eecf3b178206_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_source=reddit.com&utm_term=.c6db969f3892
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 21, 2018, 09:45:43 am
After spending years howling about Hilary Clinton's emails, Republicans have decided that Ivanka's email issues are not a concern.  It's almost as if they never really cared about emails to begin with. Whoodathunkit?

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 21, 2018, 10:05:25 am
After spending years howling about Hilary Clinton's emails, Republicans have decided that Ivanka's email issues are not a concern.  It's almost as if they never really cared about emails to begin with. Whoodathunkit?
I am shocked! Shocked I tell you!

Who would have thought that the party that endlessly complained about the moral failings of Clinton yet gave a free pass to Stubby McBonespurs and his **** grabbing ways would actually be hypocritical about the use of private email servers?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 21, 2018, 01:31:58 pm
I'll standby to see how the "Saudi ****" reacts to this!


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/rep-tulsi-gabbard-eviscerates-trump-saudi-arabia-s-****-n939011
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 21, 2018, 04:57:06 pm
Trump has now stumbled/fumbled his way into a fight with the chief justice of the SCOTUS. The gong show continues.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 22, 2018, 02:17:07 pm
Trump makes an ass of himself yet again while making a Thanksgiving  phone call to foreign based US troops and tries to turn it political. I was hoping one of those soldiers would have taken the risk to ask him about his **** bone spurs. He is such a twat, no, correctly he is a twit.

"This was, sadly, predictable and avoidable," said retired Rear Adm. John Kirby, a CNN military and diplomatic analyst. "The President's conduct on that call, the manner in which he politicized it, demonstrated an utter and complete disregard for what military service means."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/22/politics/trump-troops-border-thanksgiving-teleconference/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 25, 2018, 07:06:02 am
I'll standby to see how the "Saudi ****" reacts to this!

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/rep-tulsi-gabbard-eviscerates-trump-saudi-arabia-s-****-n939011

When even Donald Trump is kissing the Saudi's ass, one realizes how much the US is dependent on them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 25, 2018, 10:10:14 am
When even Donald Trump is kissing the Saudi's ass, one realizes how much the US is dependent on them.

The US is NOT dependent on them. They don't need their oil. And as for their so-called assistance against terrorism, well, their own religious beliefs and the hundreds of billions they've spent proselytizing the are what is CAUSING that terrorism.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 25, 2018, 11:27:11 am
The US is NOT dependent on them. They don't need their oil. And as for their so-called assistance against terrorism, well, their own religious beliefs and the hundreds of billions they've spent proselytizing the are what is CAUSING that terrorism.

OPEC has a massive influence on the global price of oil.  The Saudis themselves can turn on and off the production taps to influence the price of oil.  They did it a few years ago with Iran in part to undermine competition like Canada.  They've hollowed out our own oil industry by increasing production.

If you don't believe any of this, it's a google search away.  Start with 1973 oil crisis.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 25, 2018, 11:40:07 am
When even Donald Trump is kissing the Saudi's ass, one realizes how much the US is dependent on them.

Except the US is NOT dependent on them. In fact it's the other way around. For instance trump blathers on as to how the US needs the arms sales to the Saudis and the  hundreds of billions that amounts to. That's simply more trump horse ****: the sales have amounted to around 14 billion. Then he says the Saudis could go elsewhere for those arms sales. More horse ****: the arms they do have, especially their aircraft are US products to begin with and so you can't go to China and get parts or replacements for them. Unfortunately the Saudis are using US arms to kill kids in school buses in Yemen. Trump simply seems to have an infatuation with, and likes to kiss the asses of murderous dictators around the world. He also seems to be bristling at the idea that there is a system of checks and balances over his powers, such as congress. All this does not bode well for democracy. I hope US voters are taking heed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 25, 2018, 05:48:54 pm
Trump now tweets out that the protests in Paris are somehow connected to his idea that the US is being mistreated by the EU on trade, military commitments, etc. Perhaps his bone spurs are acting up and keeping him from staying in tune with reality, yet again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 25, 2018, 06:12:36 pm
Well, I'll be... the migrants actually rushed the border.  I wonder if this will start a big crackdown of some kind.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 25, 2018, 06:18:08 pm
Except the US is NOT dependent on them. In fact it's the other way around.

They have a mutually beneficial relationship actually, going back many decades.  The Saudis have been a strategic ally against Iran for the US, as well as against Saddam's Iraq when his regime was around.  The US sells Saudis weapons to protect against Iran, the US also provides some security protection against Iran.  The US, Israel, and the Saudis have an alliance of not messing with each while keeping Iran (supported by Russia and China) at bay, as well as Syria/Assad historically.

The US also has oil business interests with SA.  The Bush's were good business friends with the royals.

The US doesn't give a **** about rebels in Yemen if it will endanger more vital matters.  All these pundits claiming the killing of a single Saudi journalist crosses a red line is a joke, given what's been happening in Yemen and inside SA.  Iran, Syria, Russia, and China gaining more power in the region is far more important to US (and Canadian) interests than dying Houthi children, as sad as it is.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 25, 2018, 06:35:26 pm
Well, I'll be... the migrants actually rushed the border.  I wonder if this will start a big crackdown of some kind.

I watched the footage.  Interesting development.  The Tijuana mayor is PO'd at these migrants & the Mexico feds because the US shut the port of entry there, which the mayor says legit workers in Tijuana depend on for work and whatnot.  The Mexican federal gov needs to do something

Quote
The mayor of Tijuana said on Sunday that he would not let the migrants' actions damage the city's relationship with its neighbors across the border. Residents of Tijuana work, study and visit the United States each day, and the border closures affect them, too, Juan Manuel Gastélum Buenrostro said on Twitter on Sunday.

The mayor previously said he will not commit city resources to the migrants, including money or public services. He called on the Mexican government -- specifically, President Enrique Peña Nieto and his secretary of domestic affairs -- to provide assistance.

"The people of Tijuana will not pay for the stay of these migrants. I will not send Tijuana into debt, just like I have been able to avoid the last two years," he said in a November 22 Facebook post.
"We are dealing with a humanitarian crisis and the federal government must step up to its responsibility!!!"
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/25/us/san-ysidro-port-of-entry-closed/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 25, 2018, 06:41:42 pm
They have a mutually beneficial relationship actually, going back many decades.  The Saudis have been a strategic ally against Iran for the US, as well as against Saddam's Iraq when his regime was around.  The US sells Saudis weapons to protect against Iran, the US also provides some security protection against Iran.  The US, Israel, and the Saudis have an alliance of not messing with each while keeping Iran (supported by Russia and China) at bay, as well as Syria/Assad historically.

The US also has oil business interests with SA.  The Bush's were good business friends with the royals.

The US doesn't give a **** about rebels in Yemen if it will endanger more vital matters.  All these pundits claiming the killing of a single Saudi journalist crosses a red line is a joke, given what's been happening in Yemen and inside SA.  Iran, Syria, Russia, and China gaining more power in the region is far more important to US (and Canadian) interests than dying Houthi children, as sad as it is.

Right so, "mutually beneficial" is not "dependent". Trump simply tries, and probably succeeds to some point, at convincing his base types of the latter. If he had two tactical brain cells to rub together he could chastise the Saudis for various things they have done and still maintain trade with them. After all, they need the US more than the US needs them. Instead, Mr. Bonespurs chooses to kiss the ass of the likes of MBS while ignoring his own CIA. I will venture a guess that there are a lot of discussions behind closed doors that seek to simply sideline Trump from doing anything really stupid until the people come to their senses and vote him out.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 26, 2018, 10:27:26 pm
Glad to see that a number of major corporations are pulling their support for Donald's good buddy Hyde-Smith for re-election to the senate in Mississippi. My question is why the **** were they supporting this racist, scummy **** in the first place? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 27, 2018, 10:51:51 am
Glad to see that a number of major corporations are pulling their support for Donald's good buddy Hyde-Smith for re-election to the senate in Mississippi. My question is why the **** were they supporting this racist, scummy **** in the first place?

Such vitriol ,and anger towards someone you have never met and never heard about until the last few days.
What exactly did she say that was so horrendous? That she'd be glad to come to watch a public hanging? So what? We used to hold public hangings all over North America, and for a Republican from the south to say she'd support that is hardly surprising.

I know that people have imputed a relationship between her statement and the lynchings of blacks back in the day, but that seems kind of a stretch to me.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 27, 2018, 11:03:29 am
What exactly did she say that was so horrendous? That she'd be glad to come to watch a public hanging? So what? We used to hold public hangings all over North America, and for a Republican from the south to say she'd support that is hardly surprising.

I know that people have imputed a relationship between her statement and the lynchings of blacks back in the day, but that seems kind of a stretch to me.

so... why did she apologize... why did your boy Trump acknowledge the apology she provided? She said that if she was invited to a public hanging, she would be in the front row... which row for you, hey lil' buddy?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 27, 2018, 11:55:19 am
Such vitriol ,and anger towards someone you have never met and never heard about until the last few days.
What exactly did she say that was so horrendous? That she'd be glad to come to watch a public hanging? So what? We used to hold public hangings all over North America, and for a Republican from the south to say she'd support that is hardly surprising.

I know that people have imputed a relationship between her statement and the lynchings of blacks back in the day, but that seems kind of a stretch to me.

It may be a stretch for you but not so much for most people. She also went on to attempt to suppress liberal thinking students voting rights. And she shows pictures of herself with her gun and hat supporting the confederacy. I think most people, even some in Miss. find her an embarrassment. But hey Donny loves her. That should tell even you something.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 27, 2018, 12:04:56 pm
Quote
Glad to see that a number of major corporations are pulling their support for Donald's good buddy Hyde-Smith for re-election to the senate in Mississippi. My question is why the **** were they supporting this racist, scummy **** in the first place?

Such vitriol ,and anger towards someone you have never met and never heard about until the last few days.
Why is that relevant?

There are over 6 billion people in the world, and hundreds of thousands of politicians. You can't know everyone but I think its acceptable to dislike someone you have only recently heard of if their actions are bad enough.
Quote
What exactly did she say that was so horrendous? That she'd be glad to come to watch a public hanging? So what? We used to hold public hangings all over North America...
Yes we did, But that was decades ago, and I'd like to think our society has progressed a little bit. (We also had slavery in many parts of the world, but if she said "I want to put people in chains and force them to work" it would also be considered wrong.)
Quote
I know that people have imputed a relationship between her statement and the lynchings of blacks back in the day, but that seems kind of a stretch to me.
Well, I assume that people (especially minorities) who live in the area would probably look at the issue slightly differently than you do.

And keep in mind that that is not the only reason she has been accused of racism. She has also:
- promoted revisionist views of the civil war (trying to promote confederate soldiers as "defending their homeland", minimizing the case of slavery as a cause of the civil war.)
- posted photos on line with various confederate artifacts (you know, from the side that wanted slavery to continue) from the civil war, with the note "history at its best"
- Went to a private school that was set up to avoid mandatory integration. Now, it wasn't her choice at the time (being a child and all) to go to that school, but she did send her daughter to a similar private school. (When questioned about it, she attacked the "liberal media".)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/27/politics/mississippi-senate-runoff-election/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 27, 2018, 12:35:08 pm
Such vitriol ,and anger towards someone you have never met and never heard about until the last few days.
What exactly did she say that was so horrendous? That she'd be glad to come to watch a public hanging? So what? We used to hold public hangings all over North America, and for a Republican from the south to say she'd support that is hardly surprising.

I know that people have imputed a relationship between her statement and the lynchings of blacks back in the day, but that seems kind of a stretch to me.

Mississippi had 581 lynchings between 1862 and 1968, the highest number of any state. 73% of the people lynched in the US were black. I suspect the percentage was even higher in states like Mississippi. The US hasn't had a public execution since 1936 but it seems she would like to bring them back. Maybe that has something to do with it.

They were banned in Britain in 1868 and the last in Canada was in 1869.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 27, 2018, 01:19:52 pm
Just listening to the rare showing up of lying Sarah taking questions from the press. I have long since run out of fingers counting up the latest lies. She really is dancing the funky chicken with regard to questions why Trump discounts the advice of his own appointed scientists as to their findings on climate change. She says he wants to have the "cleanest air, water etc.," as he proposes to re open coal mines. I guess I'll have to take my shoes off and use my toes too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 27, 2018, 03:24:57 pm
so... why did she apologize... why did your boy Trump acknowledge the apology she provided? She said that if she was invited to a public hanging, she would be in the front row... which row for you, hey lil' buddy?

Because, it offended a number of people who took it to mean black people, and she's in an election campaign.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 27, 2018, 03:25:53 pm
It may be a stretch for you but not so much for most people. She also went on to attempt to suppress liberal thinking students voting rights. And she shows pictures of herself with her gun and hat supporting the confederacy. I think most people, even some in Miss. find her an embarrassment. But hey Donny loves her. That should tell even you something.

I'm sure they do, but I'm equally sure she's almost entirely representative of Republicans in Mississippi. And those people you speak of have no intention of voting for her anyway.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 27, 2018, 03:27:24 pm
Mississippi had 581 lynchings between 1862 and 1968, the highest number of any state. 73% of the people lynched in the US were black. I suspect the percentage was even higher in states like Mississippi. The US hasn't had a public execution since 1936 but it seems she would like to bring them back. Maybe that has something to do with it.

They were banned in Britain in 1868 and the last in Canada was in 1869.

Oh I'm sure it does. But unlike Omni I don't flatter myself that I can state with absolute certainty what a person meant even when she or he says otherwise. I lack his sense of God-like infallibility about my own brilliance.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 27, 2018, 03:36:44 pm
Oh I'm sure it does. But unlike Omni I don't flatter myself that I can state with absolute certainty what a person meant even when she or he says otherwise. I lack his sense of God-like infallibility about my own brilliance.

You think I'm "flattering" myself by pointing out a statement about someone being "happy to have a ring side seat to a public hanging" in a state that likely holds the record for racist public lynchings in the US? What's wrong with you?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 27, 2018, 03:46:23 pm
I'm sure they do, but I'm equally sure she's almost entirely representative of Republicans in Mississippi. And those people you speak of have no intention of voting for her anyway.

Your never ending assumptions aside lets see how the vote turns out. I think it will be close after she shoots herself in the foot, even if her opponent is one of those....dare I say Black folks.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 27, 2018, 08:38:19 pm
Looks like Hyde-Smith will win in Mississippi. I think I'll plan for a trip down there to get a front row when the public hangings begin. I want a front row seat too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 27, 2018, 09:37:55 pm
Oh I'm sure it does. But unlike Omni I don't flatter myself that I can state with absolute certainty what a person meant even when she or he says otherwise. I lack his sense of God-like infallibility about my own brilliance.

If you want absolute certainty about anything a politician says, you will be forever disappointed. A good rule of thumb though is to believe what they said the first time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 27, 2018, 10:27:54 pm
And then John Bolton made a complete ass of himself today by saying why should he listen to the tape of the killing of Kashoggi simply because he doesn't speak Arabic. I guess he is only interested in intelligence from English speaking countries. The Taliban must be giggling!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 28, 2018, 10:21:28 am
Quote
It may be a stretch for you but not so much for most people. She also went on to attempt to suppress liberal thinking students voting rights. And she shows pictures of herself with her gun and hat supporting the confederacy. I think most people, even some in Miss. find her an embarrassment. But hey Donny loves her. That should tell even you something.
I'm sure they do, but I'm equally sure she's almost entirely representative of Republicans in Mississippi.
Possibly. Heck, with all the racism that seems to be endemic to the republicans in the entire country, she may even be representative of ALL republicans.

But the country has more than just Republicans.. It has Democrats, independents, swing voters, etc. It would be nice that as a politician she re recognize that "Hey, not all of the taxpayers in the state think the days of Slavery were a good thing".

Plus, representing a state which loves them some racism hurts not only the minorities that are directly affected, but even many in the majority, as some businesses will avoid going to states where racism is an issue.


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 28, 2018, 11:17:41 am
Think this says it all (in a rather humorous way)

From: https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/cindy-hyde-smith-says-she-never-lost-faith-in-mississippis-racists/amp

Celebrating her election victory on Tuesday night, U.S. Senator Cindy Hyde-Smith said that, despite predictions that her state was ready to turn the page on its shameful past, “I never lost faith in Mississippi’s racists.”
...
Exit polls showed that Hyde-Smith performed extremely well with voters who described themselves as bigots, and dominated among those who could not correctly spell “Mississippi.”


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 28, 2018, 11:34:58 am
Think this says it all (in a rather humorous way)

From: https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/cindy-hyde-smith-says-she-never-lost-faith-in-mississippis-racists/amp

Celebrating her election victory on Tuesday night, U.S. Senator Cindy Hyde-Smith said that, despite predictions that her state was ready to turn the page on its shameful past, “I never lost faith in Mississippi’s racists.”
...
Exit polls showed that Hyde-Smith performed extremely well with voters who described themselves as bigots, and dominated among those who could not correctly spell “Mississippi.”


I found this a little lower down on the cite you posted. What it points out almost sounds humorous as well, if it weren't apparently quoted from the POTUS. Of course with Trump you can never know what to expect.

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Calling for an “immediate end” to the recount in Florida, Donald J. Trump warned on Monday that it could set a dangerous precedent of the person with the most votes winning.

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/trump-warns-that-florida-recount-could-set-dangerous-precedent-of-person-with-most-votes-winning?intcid=inline_amp

"Speaking to reporters at the White House, Trump said that those in favor of the recount had a “sick obsession with finding out which candidate got the most votes.”
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 28, 2018, 12:13:31 pm
You think I'm "flattering" myself by pointing out a statement about someone being "happy to have a ring side seat to a public hanging" in a state that likely holds the record for racist public lynchings in the US? What's wrong with you?

Not a darn thing. I'm just not as certain as you that I can read people's minds.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 28, 2018, 12:15:14 pm
If you want absolute certainty about anything a politician says, you will be forever disappointed. A good rule of thumb though is to believe what they said the first time.

Which is that she believes in capital punishment - no surprise, and is given to hyperbole "Let's have public hangings!"

Now if she says something like "I think we should be lynching black people like the good old days!" that would suggest an entirely different level of stupid.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 28, 2018, 12:16:14 pm
I'm sure they do, but I'm equally sure she's almost entirely representative of Republicans in Mississippi.
Possibly. Heck, with all the racism that seems to be endemic to the republicans in the entire country, she may even be representative of ALL republicans.

But the country has more than just Republicans.. It has Democrats, independents, swing voters, etc. It would be nice that as a politician she re recognize that "Hey, not all of the taxpayers in the state think the days of Slavery were a good thing".

Plus, representing a state which loves them some racism hurts not only the minorities that are directly affected, but even many in the majority, as some businesses will avoid going to states where racism is an issue.

None of that is relevant. Mississippi might well be a state that 'loves them some racism' but I do not see overwhelming evidence that her support of capital punishment is evidence of it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 28, 2018, 12:17:26 pm
Not a darn thing. I'm just not as certain as you that I can read people's minds.

You certainly don't have to try to read her mind, just listening to her words tells ya all you need to know. But then it seems you don't have anything against people who admit they are racist.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 28, 2018, 12:19:00 pm
You certainly don't have to try to read her mind, just listening to her words tells ya all you need to know. But then it seems you don't have anything against people who admit they are racist.

If he admits she is racist then I suppose you'd be right. She has not done so, so far as I'm aware, and the passages you quote with such vitriol and rage do not indicate racism.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 28, 2018, 12:25:40 pm
If he admits she is racist then I suppose you'd be right. She has not done so, so far as I'm aware, and the passages you quote with such vitriol and rage do not indicate racism.

Then I guess you are just not aware, again.

JACKSON, MISSISSIPPI (The Borowitz Report)—Celebrating her election victory on Tuesday night, U.S. Senator Cindy Hyde-Smith said that, despite predictions that her state was ready to turn the page on its shameful past, “I never lost faith in Mississippi’s racists.”
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 28, 2018, 12:27:17 pm
Then I guess you are just not aware, again.

JACKSON, MISSISSIPPI (The Borowitz Report)—Celebrating her election victory on Tuesday night, U.S. Senator Cindy Hyde-Smith said that, despite predictions that her state was ready to turn the page on its shameful past, “I never lost faith in Mississippi’s racists.”

You do realize that was a humour column and not an actual news report, right?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 28, 2018, 12:30:48 pm
Which is that she believes in capital punishment - no surprise, and is given to hyperbole "Let's have public hangings!"

Now if she says something like "I think we should be lynching black people like the good old days!" that would suggest an entirely different level of stupid.

Which means "Let's have public hangings". You choose to believe half of what she says and write the other half off as hyperbole. What do you base that on other than your own prejudices?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 28, 2018, 12:35:30 pm
Which means "Let's have public hangings". You choose to believe half of what she says and write the other half off as hyperbole. What do you base that on other than your own prejudices?

I speak da good Heengleesh.

You are perfectly free to let your own prejudices put whatever slant on what people say and write as you choose. Your 'slant' is that anyone talking about public hanging hates Black people. I see no actual evidence or logic to back that up, but I'm not as prejudiced as you are. When someone says 'hang em in public' I simply take that to mean they're a strong supporter of capital punishment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 28, 2018, 12:48:20 pm
When someone says 'hang em in public' I simply take that to mean they're a strong supporter of capital punishment.

geezaz! Not even die-hard Trumpians tried to use that lil' ditty as cover for Ms. Hyde-Smith!

(https://i.redd.it/pwf4kkd3blfz.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 28, 2018, 12:57:13 pm
I speak da good Heengleesh.

You are perfectly free to let your own prejudices put whatever slant on what people say and write as you choose. Your 'slant' is that anyone talking about public hanging hates Black people. I see no actual evidence or logic to back that up, but I'm not as prejudiced as you are. When someone says 'hang em in public' I simply take that to mean they're a strong supporter of capital punishment.

You do realize we are talking about the state of Mississippi right? Read up a bit on their history a bit. Hint: google "lynchings in the US"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 28, 2018, 02:52:50 pm
You do realize we are talking about the state of Mississippi right? Read up a bit on their history a bit. Hint: google "lynchings in the US"

Yes, I realize it. But public hangings were ubiquitous throughout the US and Canada, and those who are strongly supportive of the death penalty have expressed support for public executions many, many times in the past. The notion has been discussed and debated widely, including in liberal media like the New York Times and Huffington Post, though of course, their belief is public executions would result in an end to executions. Others are far from sure.

In any event, anyone running for the Republicans in a rural area or state is going to declare their devotion to the death penalty.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 28, 2018, 03:01:16 pm
Yes, I realize it. But public hangings were ubiquitous throughout the US and Canada, and those who are strongly supportive of the death penalty have expressed support for public executions many, many times in the past. The notion has been discussed and debated widely, including in liberal media like the New York Times and Huffington Post, though of course, their belief is public executions would result in an end to executions. Others are far from sure.

In any event, anyone running for the Republicans in a rural area or state is going to declare their devotion to the death penalty.

Thankfully Canada was smart enough to get rid of the death penalty and rise above the idea of selling popcorn to the sick individuals who would like to come out to get a seat on the front row to "enjoy" such an event.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 28, 2018, 03:02:01 pm
None of that is relevant. Mississippi might well be a state that 'loves them some racism' but I do not see overwhelming evidence that her support of capital punishment is evidence of it.
First of all, if her statement was simply a "show of support for capital punishment", she could have talked about execution using other methods. (e.g. "I'd personally throw the switch on ol' sparky"). At the very least talking about hangings is incredibly tone-deaf. (Kind of like using a swastika and then claiming "Its an old pagan symbol. I didn't realize it was associated with nazis".) Its her job as a politician to understand that stuff.

Secondly (and most importantly) even if you chose to ignore the link that some people make between capital punishment via hanging and lynching, there are still the other aspects of her life (her attempts to whitewash the confederacy, the posing with Confederate artifacts in publically posted photos, with statements that praise that period of history) which are more than enough to establish her as a racist.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 28, 2018, 03:09:56 pm
Surely we've all seen this picture by now. It's worth at least a thousand words to me.

https://scontent.fyvr4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10370802_687776747970305_657521756024408879_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=13bfdb677597809947a3c255e1315bb8&oe=5C6DB98D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 28, 2018, 03:39:50 pm
I see the bill to protect Muellers investigation failed to pass today. I hope he gets done soon and gets the file completed and opened before Trump can throw it in a garbage can.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 28, 2018, 03:48:27 pm
Secondly (and most importantly) even if you chose to ignore the link that some people make between capital punishment via hanging and lynching, there are still the other aspects of her life (her attempts to whitewash the confederacy, the posing with Confederate artifacts in publically posted photos, with statements that praise that period of history) which are more than enough to establish her as a racist.

If you want to accept that all Republicans are racists, then by all means, do so. I certainly agree that as a group, the individual members are more likely to be, and as a group, southerners are probably more likely to be. But not all.

Any Republican candidate in the south is going to praise the confederacy, and none would mind posing with confederate artifacts. She's true to form. But while I might be agreeable to the concept that "southern republicans are racists" as a group, we're dealing with an individual. You can't judge the individual with a degree of certainty based on group beliefs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 28, 2018, 03:56:51 pm
Which is that she believes in capital punishment - no surprise, and is given to hyperbole "Let's have public hangings!"

yowzer Argus - you're going to such grandiose lengths... to provide cover for just, "an exaggerated expression of regard"!  ;D


(https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi65.tinypic.com%2Fx38i92.jpg&hash=ada94a514890fbffbca3e7c8b5a0dfe417c71cfc)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 28, 2018, 04:02:57 pm
If you want to accept that all Republicans are racists, then by all means, do so. I certainly agree that as a group, the individual members are more likely to be, and as a group, southerners are probably more likely to be. But not all.

Any Republican candidate in the south is going to praise the confederacy, and none would mind posing with confederate artifacts. She's true to form. But while I might be agreeable to the concept that "southern republicans are racists" as a group, we're dealing with an individual. You can't judge the individual with a degree of certainty based on group beliefs.

What a feeble attempt at subterfuge. Nothing to do with "group beliefs". Just listen to the words coming out of her mouth. "Voter suppression is a good idea"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 28, 2018, 04:08:35 pm
If you want to accept that all Republicans are racists, then by all means, do so. I certainly agree that as a group, the individual members are more likely to be, and as a group, southerners are probably more likely to be. But not all.
Yes, its possible that there are some non-racist republicans.

But, Trump himself is a racist. And since racism is a large part of his platform, anyone who supports him should be considered a racist by association. (Even if their reason for supporting Trump has nothing to do with his racism, you simply can't overlook his racist policies.). If there are republicans who are not racist, they wouldn't be considered among Trump supporters. Sadly, such principled republicans seem to be few and far between.
Quote
Any Republican candidate in the south is going to praise the confederacy, and none would mind posing with confederate artifacts. She's true to form. But while I might be agreeable to the concept that "southern republicans are racists" as a group, we're dealing with an individual. You can't judge the individual with a degree of certainty based on group beliefs.
If, as an individual, a southern republican poses with confederate artifacts and refers to the confederacy in positive terms, they should be considered racist. Why? Because they had a choice. They could have not posed with the confederate artifacts. That they chose to do so makes them a racist, not the part of the country they live in.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 28, 2018, 04:17:08 pm
I assume we've all seen this picture Trump tweeted out. The mans brain seems to be about as addled as you can get, yet he sits in the WH.

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/trump-tweets-democrats-jail/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on November 28, 2018, 05:17:06 pm
anyone who supports him should be considered a racist by association.
What a ridiculous notion. Racism (a.k.a. identity politics) is the core of the Democratic platform therefore anyone who supports Democrats is a racist even if they support Democrats for other reasons (i.e. voting against Trump). IOW, by your logic everyone is racist so the word no longer has any meaning.


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 28, 2018, 05:20:15 pm
What a ridiculous notion. Racism (a.k.a. identity politics) is the core of Democratic platform therefore anyone who supports Democrats is a racist even if they support Democrats for other reasons (i.e. voting against Trump). IOW, by your logic everyone is racist so the word no longer has any meaning.

Apparently you need grammar lessons.
Anyway Hyde-Smith has Trump's full sup[port so, "birds of a feather" concept proven once again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 28, 2018, 05:47:43 pm
yowzer Argus - you're going to such grandiose lengths... to provide cover for just, "an exaggerated expression of regard"!  ;D


(https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi65.tinypic.com%2Fx38i92.jpg&hash=ada94a514890fbffbca3e7c8b5a0dfe417c71cfc)

It's common knowledge that accepting an invitation to a public hanging is a common expression of high regard.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 28, 2018, 08:18:27 pm
yowzer Argus - you're going to such grandiose lengths... to provide cover for just, "an exaggerated expression of regard"!  ;D


(https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi65.tinypic.com%2Fx38i92.jpg&hash=ada94a514890fbffbca3e7c8b5a0dfe417c71cfc)

Poor Mr. ****. You continue to try to push out colorful pictures and quotes to hide your desperately inferior communication skills. Haven't you learned yet that I'm totally interested in them? If you can't make a point on your own then you should really stop posting and let the adults discuss things.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 28, 2018, 08:27:04 pm
Yes, its possible that there are some non-racist republicans.

But, Trump himself is a racist

More of a bigot, I'd say.

Quote
And since racism is a large part of his platform,

No, I would say nativism is a large part of his platform, and making use of long-held grievances against identity activists and politicians whose policies are all about enhancing and respecting everyone who isn't white and male. I grant there's a certain amount of xenophobia in his policies too, esp with regard to immigration and illegal migration. He's hardly subtle.

Quote
anyone who supports him should be considered a racist by association.

Wouldn't that mean anyone who votes for him, or Republicans, is a racist?

Quote
(Even if their reason for supporting Trump has nothing to do with his racism, you simply can't overlook his racist policies.).

Oh sure you can. When he says he's going to keep illegal migrants from crossing the border, the majority of Americans agree with him. They might not all agree with the hyperbole he uses, or his description of Mexicans, but the majority of Americans would nod in agreement at his determination to finally seal the open border to the south and stop millions of illegals from crossing.

Quote
.If, as an individual, a southern republican poses with confederate artifacts and refers to the confederacy in positive terms, they should be considered racist. Why? Because they had a choice. They could have not posed with the confederate artifacts. That they chose to do so makes them a racist, not the part of the country they live in.

Why is it it's like a common mantra that we must respect the culture of everyone in the world, except if they're white? Southerners do indeed have a distinct culture, and they grow up with stories about the glories of the confederacy. Now I grant you they're wrong but if you grow up with a culture which saw the confederacy as standing up to an overbearing federal government (and all American culture seems to have a healthy dollop of hating government) then it's not surprising you'd embrace the artifacts of the confederacy. It does not make you a racist, just a victim of a school system which downplayed the bad things and played up the good things about their history.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 28, 2018, 09:00:52 pm
Trump now predicts he won't likely win a Nobel Peace Prize, even though he thinks he got North Korea to denuke. News reporters have been laughing their heads off as I suspect Fat Kim is also as he prepares to fire more missiles. Every day he seems to get more ridiculous. But hey, the right wingers will eat it up and probably try to figure out how to complain to Nobel. hahahah

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/418788-trump-predicts-hell-never-get-the-nobel-peace-prize

Some recent reports have said that the president has grown frustrated with the lack of progress toward Pyongyang's denuclearization since their first summit in June.

North Korean Foreign Minister Ri Yong Ho said near the end of September that the country will not give up its nuclear capabilities until it has "trust in the U.S."

Two weeks ago, Kim made an appearance to oversee North Korea's test of a new unspecified weapon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 28, 2018, 11:06:16 pm
I can hardly wait until we get an actual picture of Trump behind bars. If anybody deserves to be there it would be him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 29, 2018, 06:02:55 am
I can hardly wait until we get an actual picture of Trump behind bars. If anybody deserves to be there it would be him.
'

Not going to happen.  I don't think he will even be impeached.  Best you can hope for is constitutional crisis and then a decision to not run in 2020.  Then - hopefully - some kind of change in the party to both acknowledge populism and mitigate its excesses.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 29, 2018, 10:32:10 am
'

Not going to happen.  I don't think he will even be impeached.  Best you can hope for is constitutional crisis and then a decision to not run in 2020.  Then - hopefully - some kind of change in the party to both acknowledge populism and mitigate its excesses.
I agree that he won't be impeached. The Republicans in congress have no real principles left and will not impeach Trump even if they find the video of Trump giving oral sex to Putin while Putin personally hacks into the Democrats servers (while Assange lovingly  looks on).

To me, the best would be for Trump to actually run in 2020, then lose badly, including losses in the senate and house. Give the democrats complete control for a while. (THAT might be the best way to get the message through to the Republicans... a message from the voters that if you abandon principles for short term gain it can cause repercussions. If Trump resigns or doesn't run again, there is a chance Republicans may try the same shtick again.... populist incompetent leader who tries to divide the electorate using racist dog whistles.)

Then, the federal government would bring charges against Trump and member of his family, either for ties to Russia, or various frauds they have engaged in. Or, if he tries pardoning himself (and it sticks), or the next president thinks "We should put this behind us" and decides not to press charges, one of the state governments (such as New York) brings state-level charges.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 29, 2018, 10:50:35 am
Quote
anyone who supports him should be considered a racist by association.
What a ridiculous notion. Racism (a.k.a. identity politics) is the core of the Democratic platform therefore anyone who supports Democrats is a racist even if they support Democrats for other reasons (i.e. voting against Trump). IOW, by your logic everyone is racist so the word no longer has any meaning.
In my opinion, associating with a group ("Identity politics") does not make a person a racist. Suggesting members of a group that has traditionally been repressed be given equal status to a non-repressed group does not make a person racist.

What makes a person racist is either the assumption that the racial group you are associating with is somehow superior based on nothing more than the criteria that makes them members of the group (e.g. White people are better than black), or a desire to maintain a difference in power or wealth.

I'm white, with a family name associated with an Irish background. Wearing green on St. Patty's day does not make me a racist.. but if I said "Irish people are better than (insert minority group X)", that does make me racist.

(Granted, I'm not sure how to characterize a member of a repressed minority who thinks members of that minority group are somehow superior... after all, its racism in a sense, but the group was denied equality in the first place.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 29, 2018, 11:08:20 am
In my opinion, associating with a group ("Identity politics") does not make a person a racist. Suggesting members of a group that has traditionally been repressed be given equal status to a non-repressed group does not make a person racist.

Identity politics has never been about giving equal representation. It has always been about promoting one group over another based solely on race. Or, on gender, which I suppose is merely extremely sexist and discriminatory, as opposed to racist.

Quote
(Granted, I'm not sure how to characterize a member of a repressed minority who thinks members of that minority group are somehow superior...

I'll help you out. It's racism.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 29, 2018, 11:37:34 am
Quote
Yes, its possible that there are some non-racist republicans.

But, Trump himself is a racist
More of a bigot, I'd say.
Well, he's actually both. He has engaged in actions that specifically denigrate black people for example. And since racism is a subset of bigotry, that means that the (racist) Trump is automatically a bigot.

Now, he's also exhibited bigotry in ways that have nothing to do with Race... his sexism for example.

The grey area is how to characterize his rhetoric against muslims and/or Mexicans... since neither is considered a 'race' (one is a religion, one is a country/culture). Some might broaden the definition of 'racism' to include anti-Muslim and anti-mexican rhetoric, others might prefer to narrow the definition of 'racism' to include only bigotry aimed at certain skin colors, and use another label for his other types of bigotry.

Quote
Quote
And since racism is a large part of his platform,
No, I would say nativism is a large part of his platform, and making use of long-held grievances against identity activists and politicians whose policies are all about enhancing and respecting everyone who isn't white and male. I grant there's a certain amount of xenophobia in his policies too, esp with regard to immigration and illegal migration. He's hardly subtle.
There is no need to (for example) associate Mexicans with "rapists", to push for the use of stop-and-frisk laws (which affect Black Americans disproportionately), or to take away resources aimed at stopping terrorism caused by far-right groups  (the greatest source of terror attacks in the past decade) and reallocate them to areas where there is less need.

Those are not about ending "disrespect for white men". Its racist policy and rhetoric. And it has been front and center, both during the election and since Trump took power.

Quote
Quote
anyone who supports him should be considered a racist by association.
Wouldn't that mean anyone who votes for him, or Republicans, is a racist?
Pretty much, yeah. They took a look at Trump and his racism/bigotry, and either said "I like that", or at least said "I'm A-Ok with that". Such voters may never dream of saying/doing such racist stuff themselves, but they have no problem having the country represented by someone who does those things.

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(Even if their reason for supporting Trump has nothing to do with his racism, you simply can't overlook his racist policies.).
Oh sure you can. When he says he's going to keep illegal migrants from crossing the border, the majority of Americans agree with him. They might not all agree with the hyperbole he uses, or his description of Mexicans, but the majority of Americans would nod in agreement at his determination to finally seal the open border to the south and stop millions of illegals from crossing.
Despite what Trump says, the Democrats in general were never in favor of an 'open border'. (There may be a few people on the fringe who feel that way, but most wanted at least some border enforcement.) Of course, the democrats didn't make any attempt at trying to associate Mexicans with rapists and gang members.

Oh, and do you really think the president's immigration policies are really that popular?

From: https://www.vox.com/2018/7/6/17540418/trump-immigration-policy-separating-families
Nearly 70 percent of those surveyed said they oppose the administration’s implementation of a “zero tolerance” policy that forced the separation of parents and children, according to a Washington Post-Schar School survey. Fifty-five percent of those polled are against building a wall along the US border to Mexico. And more than 60 percent of the individuals surveyed disagreed with limitations that would make it tougher for US citizens to bring parents and siblings to the States.

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.If, as an individual, a southern republican poses with confederate artifacts and refers to the confederacy in positive terms, they should be considered racist. Why? Because they had a choice. They could have not posed with the confederate artifacts. That they chose to do so makes them a racist, not the part of the country they live in.
Why is it it's like a common mantra that we must respect the culture of everyone in the world, except if they're white?
There are elements of "white culture" that can be respected and celebrated, and there are elements of white culture that should be condemned.

For example, if I were german, it would not be considered racist to (for example) wear a pair of lederhosen and get drunk on Octoberfest. Its a long-standng part of German culture. But if they become fixated on late-30s/early-40s germany and start putting up a swastika, most people would recognize that they were not simply  "respecting the culture" but engaging in racism.

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Southerners do indeed have a distinct culture...
Yes they do. And if Hyde-Smith had (for example) talked about being in the front row of a bluegrass concert (instead of a hanging), or posted photos of her with a banjo rather than confederate artifacts, people would not have cared. (Even though bluegrass music is predominately associated with white culture, it does not have the racist association that the confederacy does.)

There is more to southern culture than just the confederacy. The fact that she takes such a keen interest in promoting what should be seen as a black mark in southern history suggests that she is more than happy with racism.

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...and they grow up with stories about the glories of the confederacy. Now I grant you they're wrong but if you grow up with a culture which saw the confederacy as standing up to an overbearing federal government (and all American culture seems to have a healthy dollop of hating government) then it's not surprising you'd embrace the artifacts of the confederacy. It does not make you a racist, just a victim of a school system which downplayed the bad things and played up the good things about their history.
It doesn't matter WHERE a person's racist attitudes come from. What only matters is whether they actually old them. It doesn't matter if you were born in a culture where racist attitudes predominated and the confederacy was seen as the 'glory days', or you were a recent convert to racism, the only thing that is important are the actual attitudes that you currently have.

Plus, she's a politician and as such should be mindful of ALL voters (even the ones who didn't vote for her), and I don't think that many black voters would like their elected representative having such a positive view of a racist political movement like the confederacy. Plus she's supposedly been educated. Most people grow and expand their outlook when they go to University, and as such she should have a bigger outlook than "I was told the confederacy was good when younger so I continue to hold that view".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on November 29, 2018, 11:56:34 am
In my opinion, associating with a group ("Identity politics") does not make a person a racist.
The association with the identity group is not the racism. The racism is the denigration of people because of the skin colour/gender (e.g. white men) in order to advance the interest of one's preferred identity group. Demands that every possible job category reflect the mix of society as a whole is pure racism because race is put of ahead of any other criteria when it comes to judging whether a work place is fair.

I'm white, with a family name associated with an Irish background. Wearing green on St. Patty's day does not make me a racist.. but if I said "Irish people are better than (insert minority group X)", that does make me racist.
Except identity politics is filled with such rhetoric (many Natives in Canada are as racist as any white in apartheid South Africa with the ridiculous assertions that "settlers" do not belong here).

Granted, I'm not sure how to characterize a member of a repressed minority who thinks members of that minority group are somehow superior... after all, its racism in a sense, but the group was denied equality in the first place.)
You are assume the minority is actually "repressed" today. In many cases, the statistical differences are a reflection of cultural differences rather than oppression.

In any case, racism is racism and many Democratic policies are racist. You can resort to special pleading but this kind of BS is why many *non-racists* support Trump because they see his racism as less odious than the racism of the democrats. At least everyone agrees that Trump is a racist. Democrats are more dangerous  because people like you try to pretend they aren't.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 29, 2018, 12:07:47 pm
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In my opinion, associating with a group ("Identity politics") does not make a person a racist. Suggesting members of a group that has traditionally been repressed be given equal status to a non-repressed group does not make a person racist.
Identity politics has never been about giving equal representation. It has always been about promoting one group over another based solely on race. Or, on gender, which I suppose is merely extremely sexist and discriminatory, as opposed to racist.
By all means, give me an example of "identity politics" that you think unfairly promotes one group over another. (Keeping in mind that to do that you probably have to find the identity group/minority group that hasn't been subject to discrimination on some level within recent history.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 29, 2018, 12:52:49 pm
We see today that Cohen has now flipped on Trump and plead guilty to lying to the congress as to what the Donald knew about the Russian meeting. I assume one can expect he has lots of beans to spill in a trade for reduced jail time. I guess he's not actually going to take that bullet for his former boss after all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 29, 2018, 02:53:12 pm
By all means, give me an example of "identity politics" that you think unfairly promotes one group over another. (Keeping in mind that to do that you probably have to find the identity group/minority group that hasn't been subject to discrimination on some level within recent history.

https://www.algonquincollege.com/news/2018/11/23/algonquin-college-launches-innovative-new-program-that-will-save-a-seat-for-women-in-technology-fields/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 29, 2018, 03:05:44 pm
Quote
By all means, give me an example of "identity politics" that you think unfairly promotes one group over another. (Keeping in mind that to do that you probably have to find the identity group/minority group that hasn't been subject to discrimination on some level within recent history.
https://www.algonquincollege.com/news/2018/11/23/algonquin-college-launches-innovative-new-program-that-will-save-a-seat-for-women-in-technology-fields/
So, you are complaining about a program that plans to give additional representation to women in technological fields (a field where they are underrepresented as a portion of the population).

Women, the group that, when employed in science and technology fields, on average:
- Have reported more incidences of sexual harassment than males in the same fields
- Report discrimination more often than men (or even more discrimination than women in other fields, suggesting the problem in science & technology is worse than in other areas)
- Female technology teachers are often viewed more negatively than their male counterparts

https://qz.com/work/1177879/all-the-ways-women-are-still-discriminated-against-in-stem/

So basically what you're saying is that it is "identity politics" (and somehow a bad thing) for women to want to  have some sort of equality at work. There is nothing in there that says they want more women than men in technology, nor anything that says women are more capable in the field than men.

(Note: I am not always in favor of hiring quotas and the like, I think each case needs to be addressed on an individual basis.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 29, 2018, 03:10:48 pm
There is no need to (for example) associate Mexicans with "rapists", to push for the use of stop-and-frisk laws (which affect Black Americans disproportionately), or to take away resources aimed at stopping terrorism caused by far-right groups  (the greatest source of terror attacks in the past decade) and reallocate them to areas where there is less need.

Sure there is. Saying outrageous things gets him attention and gets him votes. And there is a significant number people who delight in someone saying something outrageous because it's seen as rebelling against the ever tightening speech codes the left is subjecting people to.

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Pretty much, yeah. They took a look at Trump and his racism/bigotry, and either said "I like that", or at least said "I'm A-Ok with that". Such voters may never dream of saying/doing such racist stuff themselves, but they have no problem having the country represented by someone who does those things.

I completely disagree. First, your definition of racism is extremely wide, and many don't share it. Second, it's very rare you ever agree with everything a politician says or proposes. You try to find one whose policies you like more than dislike. I doubt there are a lot of Trump voters who think much of his personal behavior and morality, and probably don't event think a lot of his hyperbole. Many probably would even acknowledge he's kind of a doofus and doesn't know a lot. But they weight this against voting for a party they see as despising them, and trying to elevate various identity groups above them. For example, long before Trump came on the scene, I said I would never vote for the NDP, because I'm white, straight, male and middle class. They don't care a fig about me, and only see me as a wallet to loot to throw money to their preferred identity groups. I'm pretty sure most Trump supporters see the Democrats in the same light (though I disagree they're nearly that bad).

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Despite what Trump says, the Democrats in general were never in favor of an 'open border'.

Maybe not, but they've done nothing to slow the flow of illegals, nor have the Republicans, though for different reasons. That's one of the reasons people like Trump.

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Oh, and do you really think the president's immigration policies are really that popular?

Among his supporters, very much.
Note that the polls you're referencing are cherry picking their questions. I think a 'wall' is dumb too. That doesn't mean I wouldn't support strong measures to block illegals from crossing the border. You don't need a 'wall' along every mile of territory. You might put it in a few places with high traffic, and use fencing, and other measures in other areas. Ask Americans if they want strong and secure measures taken to block illegal immigration and you'll get near unanimity.

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Yes they do. And if Hyde-Smith had (for example) talked about being in the front row of a bluegrass concert (instead of a hanging), or posted photos of her with a banjo rather than confederate artifacts, people would not have cared. (Even though bluegrass music is predominately associated with white culture, it does not have the racist association that the confederacy does.)

You don't get to define what constitutes southern culture, and thus what is acceptable to celebrate about it.

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It doesn't matter WHERE a person's racist attitudes come from. What only matters is whether they actually old them. It doesn't matter if you were born in a culture where racist attitudes predominated and the confederacy was seen as the 'glory days', or you were a recent convert to racism, the only thing that is important are the actual attitudes that you currently have.

That, of course, only applies to white people, right?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 29, 2018, 03:33:35 pm
'

Not going to happen.  I don't think he will even be impeached.  Best you can hope for is constitutional crisis and then a decision to not run in 2020.  Then - hopefully - some kind of change in the party to both acknowledge populism and mitigate its excesses.

There is talk that even though the dems have control of the house, or soon will have, that they won't try to impeach, even though it likely wouldn't get through the senate, because if he simply gets voted out of office he can then be indicted. No pardons for Donny.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on November 29, 2018, 03:33:56 pm
So, you are complaining about a program that plans to give additional representation to women in technological fields (a field where they are underrepresented as a portion of the population).

No one is proposing such programs to provide additional 'representation' to men in fields where they are underrepresented. Why not? The same college has nursing and dental hygienist programs, among others which are probably 90+% female, and is taking no actions to remedy that. Many courses of study in college and university have far more women than men in them. Why is that not a concern? In fact, women overall are up to 75% of students in health related fields. Where is the raging national concern over this?

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Women, the group that, when employed in science and technology fields, on average:

And other women and other studies, have shown no such discrimination. In fact, a recent study with blind applications to universities in STEM fields found females twice as likely to be hired and or taken on as males with exactly the same qualifications. The thing progressives refuse to acknowledge is that, overall, women are much less interested in the STEM fields than men. Far fewer apply. Far more drop out. STEM fields which involve 'things' as opposed to 'people' are simply not that attractive to women. So universities and colleges are practically reduced to throwing ropes around unwilling girls and dragging them kicking and screaming into STEM studies, offering them all manner of assistance not available to boys anywhere.

A new study explores a strange paradox: In countries that empower women, they are less likely to choose math and science professions.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more-gender-equality-the-fewer-women-in-stem/553592/

Things versus people.  Su et al (2009) performed a meta-analysis of studies including a total of over 500,000 people examining gender differences in interests.  Despite claims that gender differences are typically “small” (Hyde, 2005), Su et al found a gigantic gender difference in interests.  Women preferred working with people, whereas men preferred working with things, a preference that is detectable within the first two days of birth and among our close species relatives, rhesus monkeys!  To be sure, these differences were not absolute.  Not every man prefers working with things, and not every woman prefers working with people.  But the effect size was d= .93, and even if you are not familiar with effect sizes, this would make it one of the largest effects in social psychology; it is gigantic.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/rabble-rouser/201707/why-brilliant-girls-tend-favor-non-stem-careers

Last spring they published a blockbuster article in the Proceeding of the National Academy of Sciences, “National hiring experiments reveal 2:1 faculty preference for women on STEM tenure track.” Williams and Ceci constructed elaborate, detailed resumes for three fictional applicants for an assistant professorship in biology, engineering, psychology, and engineering: an extremely highly qualified woman, an equally extremely highly qualified man, and a slightly less qualified man. They then wrote a job application for each, including extensive quotes from recommendations, search committee evaluations, publications, and biographical information. These “applications” were submitted to 873 tenure-track faculty members (including a roughly equal number of men and women) from 371 universities around the country.

“The results,” Science magazine reports, “run counter to widely held perceptions and suggest that this is a good time for women to be pursuing academic careers….  A woman applying for a tenure-track faculty position in STEM … at a U.S. university is twice as likely to be hired as an equally qualified man, if both candidates are highly qualified, according to a new study.”


https://www.mindingthecampus.org/2015/11/04/women-favored-2-to-1-in-stem-hiring/

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So basically what you're saying is that it is "identity politics" (and somehow a bad thing) for women to want to  have some sort of equality at work

This has pretty much ZERO to do with equality at work or equality at all. This is giving girls preferential treatment when they apply for a seat in a course, allowing girls with lower marks and abilities into certain classes and pushing aside more capable boys in the interest of some sort of vaguely defined 'need' to have more equality in just about the only area of study where men dominate. And again, I note, women dominate in many areas of university AND NO ONE GIVES A DAMN.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 29, 2018, 04:26:44 pm
I bet the folks down in Argentina for the G-20 are having a bit of a giggle and wondering exactly how to deal with Trump after the Cohen revelation.

"All during those months, candidate Trump was telling the American public that he had no business interests in Russia. President Trump’s response Thursday was that “even if he [Cohen] was right, it doesn’t matter because I was allowed to do whatever I wanted during the campaign.” U.S. investigators may disagree."


https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/11/29/why-g20-leaders-are-gloating-behind-trumps-back-argentina-russia/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 30, 2018, 03:42:55 am
(https://i.imgur.com/NnoGhN1.gif)

(https://i.imgur.com/kp8te.gif)

(https://i.imgur.com/4RGnHUk.gif)

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 30, 2018, 12:32:19 pm
Just watching a bit of the goings on down at the G20 and I see the 3 stooges have hooked up. Murderer BS and murderer Vladi Putin shared a very lively handshake and Trump with Steve Mnuchin and daughter Ivanka in tow (where the hell does she fit into this menagerie?) also have a warm exchange with MBS. And here I thought Trump hated Muslims. "Kick 'em all" out I heard him say one time. I guess he's OK with the ones who can arrange murders. What a creepy gongshow the whole thing is. I imagine the European leaders there are keeping their distance. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 01, 2018, 04:23:17 pm
Grandpa Cranky... must have heard the lunch bell!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M5E0tqLtxU
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on December 03, 2018, 08:58:28 am
I commend Sega and Sir J on excellent debate. Both make salient points on their opposing views. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on December 03, 2018, 09:02:29 am
I bet the folks down in Argentina for the G-20 are having a bit of a giggle and wondering exactly how to deal with Trump after the Cohen revelation.

"All during those months, candidate Trump was telling the American public that he had no business interests in Russia. President Trump’s response Thursday was that “even if he [Cohen] was right, it doesn’t matter because I was allowed to do whatever I wanted during the campaign.” U.S. investigators may disagree."


https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/11/29/why-g20-leaders-are-gloating-behind-trumps-back-argentina-russia/

I bet those folks have more pressing internal domestic issues to worry about. Last time I looked Paris was on fire and Britain has a major issue with the EU. I don't doubt Justin giggles but its probably about his pipeline fiasco and how he has not by  spending our future away prevented economic downturn in Canada. Tee hee.  His spending has not helped. Tee hee.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 03, 2018, 11:07:54 am
I bet those folks have more pressing internal domestic issues to worry about. Last time I looked Paris was on fire and Britain has a major issue with the EU. I don't doubt Justin giggles but its probably about his pipeline fiasco and how he has not by  spending our future away prevented economic downturn in Canada. Tee hee.  His spending has not helped. Tee hee.

no shortage of reports/vids highlighting collective G20 laughter at the buffoon Trump... don't let your obsession with Monsieur Trudeau get in the way, hey!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 03, 2018, 03:30:02 pm
I wonder if when 45's time comes if he will get anything like the accolades 41 is getting today.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 03, 2018, 04:14:14 pm
I wonder if when 45's time comes if he will get anything like the accolades 41 is getting today.

What ?  Jeebus what do YOU think ?  The only good that will come out of it will be that he explored how things break.  And someone can build something useful with that knowledge.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 03, 2018, 04:20:43 pm
What ?  Jeebus what do YOU think ?  The only good that will come out of it will be that he explored how things break.  And someone can build something useful with that knowledge.

I think if you look up "tongue in cheek" you'll find a reference to my comment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 03, 2018, 05:08:35 pm
Been flipping through the channels a bit following the ceremony for GHW Bush and I'm surprised at how often references have been made to the contrasts between the his administration and the current one. Trump I'm sure won't be happy but I suspect his handlers will try to control his little tweety fingers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 03, 2018, 05:40:02 pm
I think if you look up "tongue in cheek" you'll find a reference to my comment.

Wow.  Pretty dry.    :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on December 04, 2018, 11:42:55 am
May I remind you some refer to GH Bush as the man who shot JFK ...The man with the umbrella.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 04, 2018, 12:07:29 pm
Wow, just hearing a press briefing with Lindsay Graham who just emerged from a CIA briefing. He is now totally convinced of the collusion of MBS in the Kashoggi murder. I wonder how this will square with Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 04, 2018, 12:39:51 pm
Yup, says MBS is "crazy". Wonder where this will lead. Graham has shown a history of talking big but doing nothing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 04, 2018, 12:54:34 pm
Yup, says MBS is "crazy". Wonder where this will lead. Graham has shown a history of talking big but doing nothing.

Well he was talking pretty big just then saying he wanted to quash arms sales to the Saudi's and that if MBS were in a proper court of law he would be convicted of murder within 30 minutes. Of course Trump trusts MBS more than he does the CIA, so I see the potential for some friction.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 04, 2018, 02:04:35 pm
Trump lies again, and now the DJ is down close to 700 points. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 04, 2018, 02:48:58 pm
Trump lies again, and now the DJ is down close to 700 points.

It's been a long time since the markets went up on anything he has said. Do you think they take him seriously? Only on his ability to do damage I'm thinking.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 04, 2018, 03:07:32 pm
It's been a long time since the markets went up on anything he has said. Do you think they take him seriously? Only on his ability to do damage I'm thinking.

I think he received a strongly rebounding economy from Obama and so far has mostly f'ed it up. All his tax cuts have done so far is make the wealthy wealthier, and the debt/deficit go through the roof. And to answer your question I suspect they don't take him seriously, and will be even less likely to do so after this event with China.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 04, 2018, 11:54:06 pm
Mueller recommends no jail time for Flynn because he provided such substantial information. Wonder how Donald is taking that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 05, 2018, 12:07:15 am
Mueller recommends no jail time for Flynn because he provided such substantial information. Wonder how Donald is taking that.

Not well I imagine. Especially since it looks like the info from Flynn will extend Mueller's probe. There will be tweets I'm sure.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 05, 2018, 03:20:27 pm
I watched a portion of the ceremony today for GHW Bush. Did anyone else notice the awkward moments when Trump stood up to shake hands with his predecessors and their wives? Beyond that it was a rather lovely scene.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 05, 2018, 04:52:25 pm
I have been pessimistic about the Mueller probe but it seems to be headed somewhere.  Still, the best I hope for is deadlock until 2020.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 05, 2018, 07:37:16 pm
I watched a portion of the ceremony today for GHW Bush. Did anyone else notice the awkward moments when Trump stood up to shake hands with his predecessors and their wives? Beyond that it was a rather lovely scene.

Pretty clear what they think of him. Considering what he has said about the Obama', Bushes and Clintons, the reception was pretty civil. The Obamas grudgingly shook hands and the Clintons, Bushes and Carters just ignored him. He got off easy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 05, 2018, 09:27:06 pm
Pretty clear what they think of him. Considering what he has said about the Obama', Bushes and Clintons, the reception was pretty civil. The Obamas grudgingly shook hands and the Clintons, Bushes and Carters just ignored him. He got off easy.

Yes he did get off easy, in a way, but of course this was in the midst of a dignified ceremony, and the grown ups in the room were focused. Outside of that hallowed hall it looks like he may not get off so easy. Talk of lawsuits, indictments, even impeachment abound. And it's only Wednesday. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on December 06, 2018, 05:46:08 pm
Required reading for anyone who wants to venture outside the echo chamber:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/12/a-trump-haters-guide-to-mueller-skepticism

IS THIS IT?: A TRUMP-HATER’S GUIDE TO MUELLER SKEPTICISM
Quote
Certainly, Trump’s ethical standards are low, but if sleaziness were a crime then many more people from our ruling class would be in jail. It is sleazy, but not criminal, to try to find out in advance what WikiLeaks has on Hillary Clinton. It is sleazy, but not criminal, to take a meeting in Trump Tower with a Russian lawyer promising a dossier of dirt on Clinton. (Just as, it should be mentioned, it is sleazy, but not criminal, to pay a guy to go to Russia to put together a dossier of dirt on Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 06, 2018, 07:00:19 pm
Required reading for anyone who wants to venture outside the echo chamber:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/12/a-trump-haters-guide-to-mueller-skepticism

IS THIS IT?: A TRUMP-HATER’S GUIDE TO MUELLER SKEPTICISM

People still deserve to know what the hell went on, don't you think? They will decide no later than 2020.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on December 06, 2018, 07:07:29 pm
People still deserve to know what the hell went on, don't you think? They will decide no later than 2020.
Sure. But expectations that the investigation will lead to legal trouble for Trump are not likely to be met. Nor will the report change any minds.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 06, 2018, 08:39:28 pm
Sure. But expectations that the investigation will lead to legal trouble for Trump are not likely to be met. Nor will the report change any minds.

Of course it won't change the minds of the nitwits who continue to support him, but the emoluments clause, for one thing, could certainly get him impeached. When he leaves office he faces a LOT of legal trouble.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 06, 2018, 10:50:20 pm
CNN has to evacuate their NY studios due to bomb threats. Who hates CNN more than Trump! Possible connection? Probably not anything direct of course but I'm interested to see how this plays out. I hope to hell the bombs don't actually exist.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 07, 2018, 06:49:29 am
CNN has to evacuate their NY studios due to bomb threats. Who hates CNN more than Trump! Possible connection? Probably not anything direct of course but I'm interested to see how this plays out. I hope to hell the bombs don't actually exist.

Kind of a dilemma for the politician.  Either make friends with the opposition and you end up with corruption...

(Callback to Toronto corruption: Spiros Papathanasakis and the fact that Liberals and Conservatives seem to work together to enable this guy https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/investigations/video-it-began-with-the-big-fish-behind-the-scenes-of-connected-a/ )

...or demonize them and end up with civil war.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 07, 2018, 06:52:28 am
https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/07/politics/john-kelly-chief-of-staff-donald-trump/index.html

Chief of Staff John Kelly expected to resign soon ?

This is pretty big.  He's one of the grown-ups keeping us from chaos.   >:(
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 07, 2018, 11:21:15 am
https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/07/politics/john-kelly-chief-of-staff-donald-trump/index.html

Chief of Staff John Kelly expected to resign soon ?

This is pretty big.  He's one of the grown-ups keeping us from chaos.   >:(
Somehow it doesn't surprise me as just the body language and seating arrangements etc. that were evident whenever Trump had a gathering that included John Kelly and others. I wonder what all Mueller has gotten out of him?

And it looks like Manafort may have co0ntravened the foreign corrupt practices act over that 50 million dollar offer of a penthouse to get a Trump tower deal going in Russia. And Cohen is about to hear his sentence.

It seems that as Trump's swamp gets drained, the prisons fill up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 07, 2018, 12:31:51 pm
Just heard a snippet of an interview with Rex Tillerson where he claims that one of the things that caused friction between he and Trump was that he kept having to tell the Donald things he proposed to do were illegal. After years of running Exxon-Mobil I don't see a lengthy list of lawsuits against Rex such as there is that Trump is facing. Donny maybe ought to listen up a little better.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 07, 2018, 01:26:28 pm
Kind of a dilemma for the politician.  Either make friends with the opposition and you end up with corruption...

...or demonize them and end up with civil war.
Not sure I agree with your premise.

There is no reason to think that being "friends with the opposition" is a necessary condition for corruption. Trump, for example, is an extremely divisive person (i.e. he has no friends in the opposition), but he the most corrupt president in living history (even outdoing Nixon, in my opinion).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 07, 2018, 01:39:53 pm
Assuming the actions of a POTUS affect the markets, (as Trump continuously bragged about when they were going up) he now has to face the fact his current actions seem to be on the way to whittling down the DJIA toward what it was when he took office.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 07, 2018, 02:20:44 pm
Have you heard the latest?!! Donald says Rex Tillerson was "dumb as a rock" and "lazy as hell". Rex ran the largest corporation on the face of the planet at the time for a number of years, while dufus pissed away millions going bankrupt a number of times running his. American's must be **** embarrassed, daily.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 07, 2018, 02:45:10 pm
Assuming the actions of a POTUS affect the markets, (as Trump continuously bragged about when they were going up) he now has to face the fact his current actions seem to be on the way to whittling down the DJIA toward what it was when he took office.

You can't blame all of it on Trump. Most of it is because the people who manage money are morons. An all-out, full throated trade war with China would have almost no impact on the great majority of companies in the US. For most companies it might impact profits/revenue by a couple of percentage points. Yet a lot of stocks are down 10-20-30%, even ones like Amazon and Google and Netflix which don't even operate in China.

The money managers are like nervous guys in those old spaghetti westerns, all sweating and eyeing each other, knowing someone is going to draw, and they want to be the first. They're selling because they think the others will sell, so they want to sell first before the others drive the price down. Long term doesn't matter. Only what the stock is going to do today and this week. Their bonuses demand immediate profits. Their jobs demand they not look bad and not lose much because it will impact their yearly trading record. If things are going down they have to get out fast, and the fact that drives things down is irrelevant.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 07, 2018, 03:02:19 pm
You can't blame all of it on Trump. Most of it is because the people who manage money are morons. An all-out, full throated trade war with China would have almost no impact on the great majority of companies in the US. For most companies it might impact profits/revenue by a couple of percentage points. Yet a lot of stocks are down 10-20-30%, even ones like Amazon and Google and Netflix which don't even operate in China.

The money managers are like nervous guys in those old spaghetti westerns, all sweating and eyeing each other, knowing someone is going to draw, and they want to be the first. They're selling because they think the others will sell, so they want to sell first before the others drive the price down. Long term doesn't matter. Only what the stock is going to do today and this week. Their bonuses demand immediate profits. Their jobs demand they not look bad and not lose much because it will impact their yearly trading record. If things are going down they have to get out fast, and the fact that drives things down is irrelevant.

You actually believe a trade war between the two largest economies on the planet would have no impact? Just have a look at the impact it has had so far. What you can blame on Trump is that he lied about agreements he claimed to have made with the Chinese. That does effect a lot of ccompanies in the US. Checked the DJIA lately?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 07, 2018, 03:26:39 pm
This clip of Manafort reminded me of someone whenever I saw it. I figured out who that was. How about Christopher Lloyd when he was playing dumb on "Taxi"?

https://www.popsugar.com/news/Old-Clip-Paul-Manafort-Unable-Answer-Russia-Question-43340296
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on December 07, 2018, 03:37:06 pm
For most companies it might impact profits/revenue by a couple of percentage points.

Yes, for most companies that is probably true. The fact is however most medium and large companies, and many small companies are deeply invested in China.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 07, 2018, 08:17:16 pm
Have you heard the latest?!! Donald says Rex Tillerson was "dumb as a rock" and "lazy as hell". Rex ran the largest corporation on the face of the planet at the time for a number of years, while dufus pissed away millions going bankrupt a number of times running his. American's must be **** embarrassed, daily.

No.  Trump's approval rating is pretty consistent.  It's a monument to stubbornness.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 07, 2018, 09:20:51 pm
Yes, for most companies that is probably true. The fact is however most medium and large companies, and many small companies are deeply invested in China.

As far as I'm aware only a very small fraction of medium and almost no small companies are invested in China AT ALL. Their only interest in China is importing things from it, and most of that can be replaced elsewhere.

Perhaps you have a cite to the contary?

Here is a list of about 300 corporations which have factories or major interests in China - though not all are American.
http://www.jiesworld.com/international_corporations_in_china.htm

By way of reference, about 4,000 companies are actively traded on the NYSE and Nasdaq with another 15,000 smaller, over the counter traded stocks.
But the vast majority of US companies are privately held. There are an estimated 30 million registered businesses in the US.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: SirJohn on December 07, 2018, 09:21:34 pm
No.  Trump's approval rating is pretty consistent.  It's a monument to stubbornness.

And bad information.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 07, 2018, 09:23:31 pm
After today's filings, Trump tweets out now he has been "all cleared" He must be on some sort of drugs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 07, 2018, 11:53:45 pm
And hey, stop being concerned about global warming. Trump knows much more than 300 of professional scientists that actually work for him.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/26/trump-climate-change-report-1016494

“I’ve seen it. I’ve read some of it, and it’s fine,” Trump responded.

The report predicted that economic losses due to climate change in some sectors could reach hundreds of billions of dollars a year by the end of the century. Trump rejected that claim.

“I don’t believe it,” he said, when a reporter asked about the grim projected economic effects. “No, no, I don’t believe it.”

I bet he got his science degree from Trump college.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 08, 2018, 03:32:04 pm
Trump calls John Kelly a "wonderful, great, wonderful, good, wonderful, lovely...." man, while he is firing him from his position as chief of staff. Kelly actually served as a marine while donny boy stayed away by lying about his bone spur bullshit at least five times. His hypocrisy is only exceeded by his stupidity. I wonder what kind of swamp dweller will be selected to replace him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 08, 2018, 10:19:24 pm
Check THIS out !   :D

https://starwarsintrocreator.kassellabs.io/#!/BLTGAVnw9HTY25vMQriF

I got the idea on another board.... the opening paragraph to the Washington Post article on last week's political doings in the US.

https://starwarsintrocreator.kassellabs.io/#!/BLTGAVnw9HTY25vMQriF
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 09, 2018, 02:05:26 pm
I was surprised and a bit shocked this am when I heard a radio report that in 2018 there have be 94 school shootings so far, and the year is not quite over! That is the highest since 2006 (59) and has more than doubled since Trump took office (45) And of course Trump still has his head far up Wayne LaPierre's and the NRA's asses, there be no kind of effective gun laws put in place for some time to come. Come on Donny, lets get the record up to at least 100 as you prepare to celebrate Xmas. 

https://www.chds.us/ssdb/incidents-by-year/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 10, 2018, 12:55:32 pm
You can't blame all of it on Trump. Most of it is because the people who manage money are morons. An all-out, full throated trade war with China would have almost no impact on the great majority of companies in the US. For most companies it might impact profits/revenue by a couple of percentage points. Yet a lot of stocks are down 10-20-30%, even ones like Amazon and Google and Netflix which don't even operate in China.
A few notes:

- Keep in mind that China is not the only country Trump has started a trade war with... he's raised trade barriers against Canada Mexico, and Europe.

- Even if a country does not directly use or produce products affected by the trade war, they can still be affected in other ways. Tariffs on computer components might affect companies like Google that maintains a significant amount of infrastructure. And if consumers have less free cash due to tariffs, they will be less able to pay for various luxuries.

- The mistakes Trump has made far exceed just his trade wars... the tax cuts artificially boosted the economy, but much of the money was spent on stock buy-backs, which artificially stimulated the stock market but did little to increase real productivity (while it also drove up the deficit). At least some of the stock drops have been due to the effects of the tax cuts wearing off.
Quote
The money managers are like nervous guys in those old spaghetti westerns, all sweating and eyeing each other, knowing someone is going to draw, and they want to be the first. They're selling because they think the others will sell, so they want to sell first before the others drive the price down. Long term doesn't matter. Only what the stock is going to do today and this week. Their bonuses demand immediate profits. Their jobs demand they not look bad and not lose much because it will impact their yearly trading record. If things are going down they have to get out fast, and the fact that drives things down is irrelevant.
On the other hand, it can also mean that money managers buy stocks (and increase their value) not because of any fundamental improvement in the economy but because they see others doing so. In fact, we saw it when Trump first announced a 'trade truce' against china... stocks increased. Then, after a day or 2, people realized that the 'trade truce' was just hot air, and the stock markets went back down.

The economy is cyclical... boom-times happen, recessions happen. And it can't be stopped by left-wing or right-wing politicians. The best they can do is to lessen the swings; keep the recessions short and not very deep, and keep the economy from getting too overheated. I'm not saying exactly when the next recession will happen, but given the deficit-happy, trade-war starting, regulation-cutting occupant of the white house, its likely that the next recession will be especially bad. Stock traders SHOULD be cautious. They don't want to be caught in another 2008 situation. "The good times will never end! Cheap houses for everyone! Wait, people can't afford the mortgages? Well, who cares if it crashes the economy. We got our commissions!"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 10, 2018, 01:04:59 pm
Chief of Staff John Kelly expected to resign soon ?
Yup, Kelly is gone by the end of the year, and Trump is in search of a replacement.

There were rumors he was trying to recruit the Chief-of-staff for Pence (Nick Ayers), but Ayers doesn't seem to be interested. He may have trouble finding someone competent to fill the position.

Gee... I wonder why he'd find it hard to find a replacement for kelly... who wouldn't want to take on a difficult job (at the best of times), working for Trump (a man who regularly belittles those around him, and doesn't follow advice.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 10, 2018, 01:52:58 pm
Yup, Kelly is gone by the end of the year, and Trump is in search of a replacement.

There were rumors he was trying to recruit the Chief-of-staff for Pence (Nick Ayers), but Ayers doesn't seem to be interested. He may have trouble finding someone competent to fill the position.

Gee... I wonder why he'd find it hard to find a replacement for kelly... who wouldn't want to take on a difficult job (at the best of times), working for Trump (a man who regularly belittles those around him, and doesn't follow advice.)

I'd happily take the job just so's I could get close enough to him punch him so hard his little fake pony tail would fly off into the wind, and he'd starve to death bouncing!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 10, 2018, 04:15:06 pm
One need only watch/listen to Jared Kushner to realize he's a twit, and so you flip the channel. However finding out now he is also a good buddy of a Saudi murderer (MBS) tells you just a bit more of what kind of a **** show currently exists in the White House. Scary!

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/jared-kushner-saudi-crown-prince-khashoggi_us_5c0cff3ae4b035a7bf5bf7ab
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 11, 2018, 02:30:37 am
Trump: "Hey, Nick, I want you to be my new Chief of Staff."

Nick Ayers: 
(https://i.imgur.com/4RGnHUk.gif)

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 11, 2018, 12:41:41 pm
Meanwhile, executives from Google are trying to explain to congress why, if you do an image search based on the word 'idiot', the majority of top-ranked images involve Trump and/or his sons.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/12/11/idiot-google-search-trump-result/2276429002/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 11, 2018, 12:56:13 pm
Meanwhile, executives from Google are trying to explain to congress why, if you do an image search based on the word 'idiot', the majority of top-ranked images involve Trump and/or his sons.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/12/11/idiot-google-search-trump-result/2276429002/

It does too. That's hilarious.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 11, 2018, 01:00:52 pm
Meanwhile, executives from Google are trying to explain to congress why, if you do an image search based on the word 'idiot', the majority of top-ranked images involve Trump and/or his sons.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/12/11/idiot-google-search-trump-result/2276429002/

I just tried that and sure enough, up popped pics of Trump and the "idiot son". And that was just after watching the little tussle Trump aired between him, Schumer and Pelosi in the oval office. I may need a strong beverage shortly!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on December 11, 2018, 03:19:35 pm
Junior George Bush pops up just as often for idiot son.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 12, 2018, 12:06:35 am
I would venture a guess that Trump is not looking forward to having to deal with Nancy Pelosi after she put him in his place today. His "big, beautiful wall" project might be reduced to a few miles of picket fence. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 12, 2018, 12:11:21 am
That was bizarre. Trump seemed to think the Republicans still controlled the House.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 12, 2018, 12:18:30 am
He may be wishing he hadn't brought the cameras into the Oval Office for this meeting. They beat him at his own game.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 12, 2018, 04:42:55 am
That was bizarre. Trump seemed to think the Republicans still controlled the House.

I think he does until January.  Pelosi was challenging him (I think) to do a vote TODAY with control of both houses, knowing he can't get that even.

Two years of deadlock coming up...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 12, 2018, 10:20:58 am
I think he does until January.  Pelosi was challenging him (I think) to do a vote TODAY with control of both houses, knowing he can't get that even.

Two years of deadlock coming up...
Given the fact that under complete republican control we have seen 1) a near-total repeal of Obamacare, 2) a tax bill that drove up the deficit (and removed many of the provisions of Obamacare), perhaps a little deadlock might not be such a bad thing.

I do think that even if the senate and house are controlled by different parties, there will be some basic legislation that gets through simply because even if the republicans are being complete idiots, they'll recognized that its in their best interest.

And hopefully the Democrats will use their control of the house to pass some decent bills. Let the Senate vote them down all they want. But one of the complaints that we here is "The Democrats don't have policies. All they want to do is oppose Trump". Well, this is their chance to show they have decent ideas, even if the Senate and/or Trump reject them. If I were in control of the house, the very first bill I would pass would be one that both cuts taxes on the lower/middle class and increases taxes on the wealthy, with a little extra left over to reduce the deficit slightly. Not enough to cause any big economic shocks, but enough to say "WE support the middle class, unlike the republicans".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 12, 2018, 11:13:49 am
Cohen has just been sentenced to 3 years in prison. I wonder if his former client will visit him often.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 12, 2018, 01:14:07 pm
Cohen has just been sentenced to 3 years in prison. I wonder if his former client will visit him often.
You can bet Cohen would be wearing a wire if Trump did visit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 12, 2018, 11:51:48 pm
Trump: "Hey, Rick, I want you to be my new Chief of Staff."

Rick Santorum: 
(https://i.imgur.com/4RGnHUk.gif)

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 13, 2018, 08:13:58 pm
Just watching some CNN news, why the **** would anybody interview Kelly Anne Conway? Shame on you Cuome, leave her in the ditch where she belongs. Her ridiculous prattle is irritating as hell.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 14, 2018, 12:36:21 pm
Cohen is really spilling the beans today. I guess he wants to try and get that 3 year sentence reduced even more. Looks like the walls are closing in on Trump. Should make for some heated tweets yet again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEgi8C989uQ
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 15, 2018, 09:34:50 pm
Just listening to an interview with Bob Woodward. Interesting correlation between what he wrote about in his book "The Final Days" regarding the final days of the Nixon administration, and what he writes about now in "Fear", and what could be now heading to Trump's final days.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 16, 2018, 05:22:49 pm
I found this video interesting.  Mexicans in Tijuana and elsewhere with a "Mexico First" ideology who are upset of all the Honduran and other central American migrants coming into their country on their way to the US (yet unable to get into the US, so they stay in Mexico).  Very similar thinking to MAGA Trump supporters and people in Canada upset about the US/Canada border.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wX5iYdz8k4
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 17, 2018, 02:47:56 pm
We all recall Trump bleating out his endless and childish comments about a "wonderful, booming, never seen before, amazing, stupendpous, (no that's a bit too big a word for him) blah, blah, blah " economy. So let's look at the real #s. Under the 8 years of Obama the Dow rose ~250% . As of today the Dow under 2 years of Trump, ~20%. And if you look at job/wage growth so far, Obama did slightly BETTER than Trump has done so far. And Trump was promising to pay down national debt. Cough, cough, he is well on his way to exceed Obama who added $8.5 trillion during 2 terms while Trump is set to add $8.3 in just one term.

Trump seems to be fairly quiet on such issues these days. Maybe he'll go "grab someone by the ****" to take the economic numbers away from our TV screens.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 17, 2018, 05:37:11 pm
We all recall Trump bleating out his endless and childish comments about a "wonderful, booming, never seen before, amazing, stupendpous, (no that's a bit too big a word for him) blah, blah, blah " economy. So let's look at the real #s. Under the 8 years of Obama the Dow rose ~250% . As of today the Dow under 2 years of Trump, ~20%. And if you look at job/wage growth so far, Obama did slightly BETTER than Trump has done so far. And Trump was promising to pay down national debt. Cough, cough, he is well on his way to exceed Obama who added $8.5 trillion during 2 terms while Trump is set to add $8.3 in just one term.

Trump seems to be fairly quiet on such issues these days. Maybe he'll go "grab someone by the ****" to take the economic numbers away from our TV screens.

Nope, he's blaming it on the Fed for raising rates. Not quiet at all, it's just someone else fault.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 18, 2018, 11:18:29 am
Trump: "Hey, Nick, I want you to be my new Chief of Staff."

Nick Ayers: 
Trump: "Hey, Rick, I want you to be my new Chief of Staff."

Rick Santorum:
Trump: "Hey, Mick, I want you to be my new Chief of Staff.

Mick Mulvaney: Ok, but make sure people know its only temporary. And that you're a terrible human being.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/video-emerges-trumps-chief-staff-pick-calling-terrible-human/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 18, 2018, 12:31:37 pm
This should be interesting, Sarah (lie through my teeth) Sanders is about to give a press briefing in the wake of a judge delaying sentencing on the Mike Flynn case. I'm sure the press corps will have their guns loaded.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 18, 2018, 12:50:31 pm
https://amp.businessinsider.com/trump-dissolves-trump-foundation-charity-amid-new-york-lawsuit-2018-12

Quote
President Donald Trump and his children Ivanka, Eric, and Donald Jr. have agreed to dissolve the Trump Foundation, their charitable organization.

A lawsuit from the New York Attorney General's Office has accused the Trump family of using the foundation to illegally coordinate with Trump's 2016 presidential campaign and engage in self-dealing transactions.

The suit - which the incoming New York attorney general, Letitia James, will continue to pursue - is also seeking $2.8 million in damages and a temporary ban on Trump family members serving on the boards of charitable organizations.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 18, 2018, 01:30:40 pm
Sarah Sanders should get away from the WH (and her scumbag boss), and lace up a pair of skates and try her hand at hockey. She might make a good defense (person) because she can stick handle well. However she can't ever seem to get out of her own end zone so doubtful she will ever score a goal.

Her just completed, and rare press briefing was pathetic as usual.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 19, 2018, 03:21:02 pm
I wonder what type of bug crawled up Trump's arse and made him wake up today ansd decide to pull all the US troops out of Syria? So now let's see Trump's accomplishments to date: the military is pissed off with him, the stock markets are in free fall back toward where they were when he came to office, his "welfare" is being ordered dissolved since it was more a welfare for him and his kids, and what, 17 or so potential criminal investigations focused on him under way. I see the BC Canada troll in chief is still supporting Trump over at the "shytehole" site. Oh yeah, and then there's "the wall". It's entertaining as long as you're lucky enough to be on this side of the border.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 19, 2018, 06:10:15 pm
Vlad called.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 20, 2018, 10:45:00 am
I wonder what type of bug crawled up Trump's arse and made him wake up today ansd decide to pull all the US troops out of Syria? So now let's see Trump's accomplishments to date: the military is pissed off with him...
That's ok, he still has the support of other Republicans...

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/major-blunder-donald-trumps-allies-blast-decision-to-withdraw-from-syria/news-story/45b4d9ba11b9feea8dec8036b1670c54
“This is a terrible mistake,” Republican Senator Marco Rubio said. “It will have grave consequences for the US and Israel, and great benefit for ISIS, Iran and Hezbollah....Another Republican, Congressman Adam Kinzinger, told Fox News he was “blown away” by Mr Trump’s decision and it would be a “devastating blow” in the war against Islamic State....Senator Lindsey Graham was equally scathing. He said he had been “blindsided” by the withdrawal, and called it a “huge Obama-like mistake”.

But, as wilber alluded to, at least Trump's boss is happy.

From: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/12/20/russia-president-vladimir-putin-annual-news-conference/2373305002/
President Donald Trump is “right” to withdraw U.S. troops from Syria, Russia’s leader said Thursday.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 20, 2018, 10:51:11 am
So now let's see Trump's accomplishments to date:
Things aren't all bad for President Stubby McBonespurs.

After all, he did get a newly discovered Amphibian named after him.

From: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/blind-amphibian-that-buries-it-head-in-the-sand-named-after-donald-trump-a4021011.html
A newly-discovered blind amphibian will be officially named after Donald Trump in recognition of the president’s climate change denial. The name ‘Dermophis donaldtrumpi’ was chosen by the boss of a sustainable building materials firm which paid thousands at an auction for the right. The small creature is blind and has an ability to bury its head in the ground. These features EnviroBuild’s Aidan Bell said match the US leader’s opinion on climate change.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 20, 2018, 12:28:41 pm
Things aren't all bad for President Stubby McBonespurs.

After all, he did get a newly discovered Amphibian named after him.

From: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/blind-amphibian-that-buries-it-head-in-the-sand-named-after-donald-trump-a4021011.html
A newly-discovered blind amphibian will be officially named after Donald Trump in recognition of the president’s climate change denial. The name ‘Dermophis donaldtrumpi’ was chosen by the boss of a sustainable building materials firm which paid thousands at an auction for the right. The small creature is blind and has an ability to bury its head in the ground. These features EnviroBuild’s Aidan Bell said match the US leader’s opinion on climate change.

Haha, can't help get a giggle out of that one. And it's apropos as well.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 20, 2018, 12:33:40 pm
And of course he has more accomplishments today. Let's see, he he seems to be walking back his agreement not to shut down the government for Xmas because he didn't get his billions for the wall, he has upped the trade war with China and so the Dow is currently down another ~400 points, he figures he has beaten ISIS, and it looks like they'll need to put up another "WANTED" poster up in the post office, namely Roger Stone. Just another day in the WH. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 20, 2018, 04:26:44 pm
News flash. Mattis leaving now. Donald didn't even tell him the were pulling out of Syria.
Anyone surprised?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 20, 2018, 04:29:58 pm
Nothing surprises me from this stupid prick anymore.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 20, 2018, 05:02:00 pm
News flash. Mattis leaving now. Donald didn't even tell him the were pulling out of Syria.
Anyone surprised?
Not surprised at all, given the number of times that Trump has gone and done stuff that Mattis has disagreed with, including:
- Ending the deal with Iran
- Disallowing transgendered people in the military
- Moving the U.S. embassy in Israel

I guess the big surprise is that he lasted as long as he did.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 20, 2018, 05:03:50 pm
Nothing surprises me from this stupid prick anymore.

Nope, it will be open season on brown people if that happens. Rather see him behind bars.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 20, 2018, 05:08:35 pm
Trump is doing more damage being in office, no good reason for ISIS to get rid of him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 20, 2018, 05:18:25 pm
Nope, it will be open season on brown people if that happens. Rather see him behind bars.

Oh well you can't indict a sitting POTUS and I imagine Googlianni, even though he seems about as incompetent as Trump, has figured out a way to get him a pardon from Pence if he gets impeached.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 20, 2018, 05:53:35 pm
The US is at its weakest point since before ww2 now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on December 20, 2018, 05:57:08 pm
The US is at its weakest point since before ww2 now.

What instrument are you measuring that on?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 20, 2018, 06:02:21 pm
The US is at its weakest point since before ww2 now.
Since the Cold War ended anyway.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 20, 2018, 08:05:38 pm
Has everybody seen the latest **** show tweet from you know who? What a dismal time it must be to be an American.

https://www.vulture.com/2018/12/megan-mullally-trump-tweet-green-acres-emmys-video.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 20, 2018, 10:54:59 pm
The US is at its weakest point since before ww2 now.

I don't know if i agree with that.  It is still the lone super power.

But it will continue to lose power in comparison to China for decades to come and there's not much it can do about it without re-organizing the global economy.  China will overtake US fairly soon in GDP, its fast increase in GDP is unheard of in modern times, it already dominates in terms of population, & China is a main source of migrants to the US and all western countries.  China and India will rule the world & subsume the West in less than a century barring drastic systemic changes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 20, 2018, 11:11:34 pm
I don't know if i agree with that.  It is still the lone super power.

But it will continue to lose power in comparison to China for decades to come and there's not much it can do about it without re-organizing the global economy.  China will overtake US fairly soon in GDP, its fast increase in GDP is unheard of in modern times, it already dominates in terms of population, & China is a main source of migrants to the US and all western countries.  China and India will rule the world & subsume the West in less than a century barring drastic systemic changes.

One thing it could do about it is get rid of donald stupid **** trump. He's pissed off every virtually every valid ally that trhe US has acquired for decades in an extremely short period, started a trade war with China, cozied up to some of the most hated, murderous dictators that exist. He's turning the place into a "lone super embarrassment". 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 21, 2018, 02:02:07 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/vgY9Pcg.png)

We The People Will Fund The Wall (https://ca.gofundme.com/TheTrumpWall)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 22, 2018, 04:16:28 pm
Trump's decision to pull out of Syria looks so bad that even the clowns on his favorite show, "Couch Buddies", were having none of it.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/422426-fox-friends-co-host-trump-just-refounded-isis-by-pulling-troops-out

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 23, 2018, 09:02:17 am
What instrument are you measuring that on?

It's entirely my opinion, based on my observation.  Militarily they are still dominant, obviously, but culturally they could fold if a crisis required American political unity.  And their interests could be and arguably have been compromised as a result of that disunity.

Now with gaps in the leadership - unfilled positions, under-filled positions and weak people in positions - there is weakness there.

Of course this is arguable, and only my observations.  And maybe I'm overstating it.  But I'm hoping you can see my point.  This isn't good for Canada either.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 24, 2018, 11:34:40 am
Captain Chaos and his crew at it again.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/dollar-markets-oil-monday-1.4958332
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 24, 2018, 04:43:19 pm
Trump's decision to pull out of Syria looks so bad that even the clowns on his favorite show, "Couch Buddies", were having none of it.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/422426-fox-friends-co-host-trump-just-refounded-isis-by-pulling-troops-out

War hawks cry about everything.

I have no idea what's even happening in Syria.  It seems to have quieted down, we don't hear anything about ISIS anymore amazingly.  I'm not saying the US should pull out or not, I have no idea, I only read what's in the headlines on this.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 30, 2018, 11:37:54 am
So **** this Xmas spirit crap for now, does anybody else get a migraine when sleazebag Kelly Anne Conway babbles on incessantly trying to protect her sleazebag boss? I had stayed away from politics for a few days but tuned back in today and sure as hell found myself screaming at the screen when she came on. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 30, 2018, 04:45:24 pm
I literally can't remember when listening to anyone from the US executive branch wasn't a complete waste of time and energy.  Going back to time I first started paying attention to politics.

Maybe Obama was an exception sometimes, but he clearly traded in his moral convictions for the ability to govern.  Maybe he made the right call, and did what he thought was best in the end, but people like Bernie Sanders and Trump have shown you can actually throw away the PC double-speak & say & do how you feel and be even more politically popular for it.

That makes me hopeful for the future.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 30, 2018, 04:49:19 pm
So **** this Xmas spirit crap for now, does anybody else get a migraine when sleazebag Kelly Anne Conway babbles on incessantly trying to protect her sleazebag boss? I had stayed away from politics for a few days but tuned back in today and sure as hell found myself screaming at the screen when she came on.

Spent 8 years of my life similarly outraged at my TV at the W. Bush admin. I have refused to do the same with this admin, I don't follow the day to day BS, I don't watch white house press sessions, i rarely watch Trump coverage on US TV news networks. It's not worth it man, it accomplishes nothing.  It's a complete waste of your time & energy better spent on things that can actually help the world and/or make you happier.

You've been consumed by rage & hate for this man & his admin.  How has this helped or changed any of his policy?  Literally nobody gives a ****, it's white noise.  My rage didn't prevent Gitmo torture, it didn't stop the Iraq War.  I have a friend, very intelligent, has an impressive post-grad degree & is very success in their career...they vote but they don't pay close attention to politics like I do.  They tell me it's all depressing horseshit & lies & doesn't have time for that in their lives.  Wiser than I am. No practical person should pay attention to any of this ****.  Following politics doesn't mean **** unless you have the power to change it.  What's the cost/benefit analysis?

I have other friends, they're American, they live in a strong blue state so their vote doesn't mean **** either way.  These people, great wonderful people, but kinda dumb, don't pay much attention to politics and when they do don't have the education to understand it properly.  But they live happy wonderful lives, have built a loving happy family, are usually cheerful, not critical and pessimistic like i am.  Guess they're smarter than me in the end.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 03, 2019, 03:52:00 pm
so Trump just tries to pull another fast one by having the WH announce there would be a press briefing and then what actually happens is lying Sarah comes out to the podium is the briefing room and does nothing more than introduce mr. bullshit bonespurs who makes his first appearance and does nothing close to a press briefing, but rather jacks off into the mic over his **** border wall, has a couple of his bald headed red neck goons make a few statements, and then walks out, taking no one question. I suspect a lot of the reporters who were there to ask questions will be rightfully pissed off and tell the Trump WH to shove your "press briefings" up your ass the big end first, which is probably exactly what Trump/Sarah want so they can hide out in the west wing, and never face any questions. I initially thought the comparisons between Trump and Hitler were a bit over the top, not so much anymore.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 04, 2019, 10:35:49 am
And in a wonderful spot of irony....

Trump has shut down parts the government because the democrats refuse to give in to his temper tantrum and fund his expensive and useless wall.

Because of the shutdown, the government has suspended a computer system called 'eVerify', which is used by employers to track who may be in the country illegally when making hiring decisions.

So its official... Trump has officially made the border LESS secure.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 04, 2019, 11:22:18 am
And in a wonderful spot of irony....

Trump has shut down parts the government because the democrats refuse to give in to his temper tantrum and fund his expensive and useless wall.

Because of the shutdown, the government has suspended a computer system called 'eVerify', which is used by employers to track who may be in the country illegally when making hiring decisions.

So its official... Trump has officially made the border LESS secure.

He'll probably write off the irony of it as "fake news" and then go use the reality of it to hire a few more undocumented Mexicans to keep the grass well mowed at Mara Laga.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 04, 2019, 12:45:22 pm
According to Dems who just came out of a meeting at the WH regarding his "wall", he apparently says he is ready to keep the gov. shut down for "months, or even years" if he doesn't get his way on the wall. With comments like that, I'm beginning to think he actually wants to be impeached.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 04, 2019, 01:43:50 pm
and Trump just personally confirmed having made that statement in the meeting, and once AGAIN proved himself the blathering idiot he is. He completely deflected every question asked of him by jerking himself off about his "beautiful wall".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 05, 2019, 02:23:44 pm
One of the strange things going on with Trump in the past few days is his explanation of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1980.

Trump was basically arguing that the amount of money the Soviets wasted in Afghanistan led to the collapse of the USSR and broke it up into all of these little states. That's pretty dubious, but that's not the interesting part.

The interesting part is that in making that argument, Trump presented a history of the Afghanistan invasion that seems to be entirely based on Russian talking points.

Trump doesn't actually know very much on his own, and it seems unlikely that among the few things he did learn was a Russian version of the history of the Afghan invasion.  Most of the "knowledge" Trump presents when he speaks is just some half-remembered half-true factoids he got from the last person he talked to.  So considering those two things, doesn't it seem likely that he's been talking to Russians regarding US withdrawals from Syria and Afghanistan?

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 05, 2019, 02:43:09 pm
Well we likely all heard Trump standing beside Putin in a public forum not so long ago in Helsinki, where Trump chose to ignore 14 of US based intelligence institutions, and rather favored his buddy's opinion with regard to any attempts at election meddling by the Ruskies in 2016. He seems to side with autocratic dictators like Putin, Fat Kim, MBS. etc., etc. Apparently Trump hasn't the intellect to do a lot of reading, but I have to wonder if his library doesn't perhaps have at least one book on the shelf he has managed to muddle his way through titled Mein Kampf.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 06, 2019, 01:42:27 pm
Trump doesn't actually know very much on his own, and it seems unlikely that among the few things he did learn was a Russian version of the history of the Afghan invasion.  Most of the "knowledge" Trump presents when he speaks is just some half-remembered half-true factoids he got from the last person he talked to.  So considering those two things, doesn't it seem likely that he's been talking to Russians regarding US withdrawals from Syria and Afghanistan?

More on this point.  This Daily Beast article (https://www.thedailybeast.com/we-need-to-know-what-happened-when-trump-was-left-alone-with-putin?source=articles&via=rss) references something Rachel Maddow talked about her show last week: in addition to the Russian revisionist version of the Afghanistan invasion, she pointed out two other times when President Trump strangely started talking about stuff straight from the Kremlin's talking points:

Quote
The first came just weeks after Trump’s inauguration. The Associated Press reported that Trump national security aides were concerned that Poland was preparing to invade Belarus. The only people spreading this bizarre notion were Putin’s propagandists. (At that time General Mike Flynn was the national security adviser, an obvious stovepipe for the Putin line.)

The second, in the summer of 2018, was when—out of nowhere—Trump, talking on Fox News, blurted out that the people of the small Balkan state of Montenegro were “very aggressive” and could start World War III. As Maddow pointed out, that was the Putin line at the time of elections in Montenegro in 2017 when a Russian intelligence plot to take power in Montenegro was exposed and foiled.

The third example just happened—during the course of the so-called meeting of the Trump cabinet when cameras were allowed to cover the whole 90 minutes. It was not so much a meeting as a monologue in which Trump combined salutes to his own towering genius with strange assertions, the strangest being that the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 had been justified because “terrorists from there were going into Russia.”

Trump, having been alone for 2 hours with Vladimir Putin, gets on the TV with Tucker Carlson and starts talking about how "aggressive" Montenegro is and how they might start World War Three.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on January 06, 2019, 02:57:45 pm
Trump, having been alone for 2 hours with Vladimir Putin, gets on the TV with Tucker Carlson and starts talking about how "aggressive" Montenegro is and how they might start World War Three.

Putin is much better than me, I couldn't stand to sit in a room with Trump for 2 hours and butter him up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 06, 2019, 03:05:29 pm
Putin is much better than me, I couldn't stand to sit in a room with Trump for 2 hours and butter him up.

Putin was a colonel in the KGB, manipulation is his stock and trade.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 08, 2019, 01:46:10 pm
Trump continues with his fuckups- now he wants to yank the troops out of Syria and completely abandon the Kurds, who have been their ally since day one fighting against ISIS, who he now somehow stupidly has determined are beaten. Erdogan of course will be free then to turn on and kill as many Kurds he can. So since Mr. Bonespurs, didn't have the balls to serve his country in a military uniform, I suggest he stop meddling with it now lest he end up with blood on his hands along with whatever is left there from grabbing women.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 08, 2019, 08:21:54 pm
Trump just proved himself once again the worst creature in the swamp. The first sentence out of his mouth was laced with lies. I guess nobody expected anything more.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 09, 2019, 12:27:00 pm
Trump just proved himself once again the worst creature in the swamp. The first sentence out of his mouth was laced with lies. I guess nobody expected anything more.
I assume you were referring to the recent network broadcast statement Trump made.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 09, 2019, 12:34:11 pm
I assume you were referring to the recent network broadcast statement Trump made.

Correct, the one from just last night. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 09, 2019, 03:28:43 pm
Pence just demonstrated he is equally as culpable of lying incessantly to the public as is his boss. "the hordes of murderous immigrants storming the southern border carrying tonnes of illicit drugs" and on and on and **** on. So how do they get away with this when fact checking refutes most of it? The US government seems to be shut down figuratively as well as, in part literally, with no let up in sight. Trump has the audacity to suggest he can relate to the 800k workers who will see no paycheck for awhile because of him, while we all know daddy Trump was peeling off hundreds of thousands while the punk was still sucking on a tit. Excuse me while I go spit!   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 10, 2019, 02:14:31 pm
So now it seems the discussion at the highest levels of the US government centers around Trump's temper tantrum as he walked out of a meeting, so all in all he has been able to reduce his current position back to hosting a ridiculous game show, except he can't scream "you're fired" at just anybody anymore.     
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on January 10, 2019, 06:04:17 pm
"the hordes of murderous immigrants storming the southern border carrying tonnes of illicit drugs" and on and on and **** on.. Excuse me while I go spit!

I believe the US and all countries have the right to safe borders and control of illegal migration. I do not agree with phrases such as the above. Its scapegoating. It ius Hitlerian and it detracts from legitimate security concerns.

It is words used to divide, incite hatred and to stereotype to detract from his failed regime record.


For me it makes Trump a despicable coward.

Here is the irony. If  he really wants Mexicans to say in Mexico, then the factories and manufacturers will head to Mexico to be with them. Trump wants it both ways.

He wants cheap immigrant labour to do the stinking jobs in the US at low wages but not the same stinking jobs in Mexico taking the jobs out of the US.

So which one is it?

He lives in denial if he thinks the entire Southern US economy was not enabled by cheap Mexican and South American seasonal labour and if he shuts them out his businesses will move down to them in Mexico.

His idiot brain can't fathom that.

As for security he likes to talk about the walls in Israel. What he of course does not talk about are the tunnels that go under the walls in Israel.

Walls are not a panacea. They can work in some parts but not as long unending barriers. That is stupid. People build tunnels under walls when they get too long. a High wall means nothing to a digger.

Today you need surveillance drones, regular horse mounted patrols, jeeps, helicopters, sattelites, sensors, undercover operations. Walls are not a panacea.

Isn't it ironic Reagan told Gorbachev to take down the wall, and how many years later Trump demands the walls go up.

Steel, cement, it means sweet phack all to diggers. I have seen the tunnels that can be made. They use cement, wood, wire, scrap metal, rubber, to build them, anything that can hold back sand, mud.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on January 10, 2019, 07:26:13 pm
It looks like Cohen will be testifying before Congress next month, this is going to be entertaining.

I also heard that Trump has hired 17 (SEVENTEEN) new lawyers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 10, 2019, 08:17:30 pm
It looks like Cohen will be testifying before Congress next month, this is going to be entertaining.

I also heard that Trump has hired 17 (SEVENTEEN) new lawyers.

17 lawyers and apparently the "help wanted" sign is still out. Cohen has agreed to, and has been granted permission by Mueller to testify in public. It will be interesting for sure since he will be doing his best to reduce his 3 year sentence if he can before he heads to jail in March. And then he has Manafort's flip to worry about. I would say we will have some serious "entertainment" in the next while as all that unfolds.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 11, 2019, 05:13:59 am
It looks like Cohen will be testifying before Congress next month, this is going to be entertaining.

I also heard that Trump has hired 17 (SEVENTEEN) new lawyers.

Those are white house lawyers, I think, not his.

And the Cohen testimony is unlikely to be revelatory, I understand.  After all they are still admonishing him for not cooperating.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 11, 2019, 11:26:24 am
Those are white house lawyers, I think, not his.

And the Cohen testimony is unlikely to be revelatory, I understand.  After all they are still admonishing him for not cooperating.

They are white house lawyers but they are there to fight his battles such as his government shutdown, his idea of declaring an emergency of course all revolving around his big beautiful wall. And I suspect hat will be revealing from Cohen is that he may spill his guts over what he knows about the Russia connection, although some of that may not be revealed to the public when he testifies to congress Feb 7.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 11, 2019, 11:51:13 am
They are white house lawyers but they are there to fight his battles such as his government shutdown, his idea of declaring an emergency of course all revolving around his big beautiful wall.

17 'new hires' to principally deal with, as I read/interpret, intentions to exert 'executive privilege' over respective conversations Trump held with Trump admin personnel/Cabinet members... something Nixon tried before being ruled against by the U.S. Supreme Court.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 11, 2019, 12:16:25 pm
17 'new hires' to principally deal with, as I read/interpret, intentions to exert 'executive privilege' over respective conversations Trump held with Trump admin personnel/Cabinet members... something Nixon tried before being ruled against by the U.S. Supreme Court.

I can see Trump following a similar path ending in resignation as did Nixon. But at least along with Nixon's transgressions, he also left some very positive effects in his wake (Title 9, the EPA, an ambitious healthcare initiative, and a little bit more success with China than Trump is having with Fat Kim). Trump's wake? the longest shuttered government in history,....and oh yeah, coal dust. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 12, 2019, 07:14:22 am
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/11/politics/nyt-russia-trump-investigation/index.html

The FBI investigated Trump as a Russian plant. 

This is a result of the Russians seeing opportunities in winning information war via social media and doing what they could to influence the 2016 election.  Brilliant, actually.  But we're stupid if we don't do something about it as it will only get worse.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 12, 2019, 01:56:17 pm
We've long known that Russia worked to help Trump get elected.

The announcement that Mueller has proof that Manafort interacted with Russian intelligence also settles the question of collusion.

The only question left is to what extent Mr Trump is under Putin's control.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 12, 2019, 04:19:00 pm
Trump's reputation continues to plummet. Will we eventually see him being led from the Oval Office in cuffs?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 13, 2019, 08:12:54 am
Trump's reputation continues to plummet. Will we eventually see him being led from the Oval Office in cuffs?

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo

Slight tick down...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 13, 2019, 12:00:31 pm
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo

Slight tick down...

That's true, it seems according to the polls his base don't care what he does. At the same time I've heard various stories from reporters who've spoken with people who did vote for Trump, but now say they wouldn't do so again.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 13, 2019, 01:33:18 pm
It's still TBD.  Is this the new normal, or are the deplorables going to skitter away soon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on January 13, 2019, 02:05:19 pm
It's still TBD.  Is this the new normal, or are the deplorables going to skitter away soon.
It all depends on whether the dems decide to go all in on identity politics. If they do that they will be telling the majority of electorate to FOD and we should not be surprised to find that Trump wins again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on January 13, 2019, 02:14:47 pm
It all depends on whether the dems decide to go all in on identity politics.

You must be listening to too much Tucker Crapson. Identity Politics is just another dog whistle of the extremists.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 13, 2019, 02:25:07 pm
They should just get rid of the ridiculously outdated/gerrymandered electoral college and Trump wouldn't have a chance in hell of "winning" again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on January 13, 2019, 02:30:11 pm
They should just get rid of the ridiculously outdated/gerrymandered electoral college and Trump wouldn't have a chance in hell of "winning" again.

The other problem is the Senate. It was created when there were 13 colonies, and bears zero resemblance to the country today.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on January 13, 2019, 02:51:19 pm
Identity Politics is just another dog whistle of the extremists.
You need to get outside of your bubble. A lot of people have no patience for politicians that regularly denigrate whites/Europeans. The same dynamics that pushes Latinos away from Trump will push many voters away from a democratic candidate. It is a mystery why you think it would be any different.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 13, 2019, 02:59:01 pm
You need to get outside of your bubble. A lot of people have no patience for politicians that regularly denigrate whites/Europeans. The same dynamics that pushes Latinos away from Trump will push many voters away from a democratic candidate. It is a mystery why you think it would be any different.

What politicians do you suggest are denigrating whites/Europeans?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 13, 2019, 03:08:00 pm
You must be listening to too much Tucker Crapson. Identity Politics is just another dog whistle of the extremists.

Or the likes of Wayne Root. Here is some of the faux news nonsense some buy into.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/why-2016-is-the-year-of-the-angry-white-male
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on January 13, 2019, 03:17:36 pm
You need to get outside of your bubble. A lot of people have no patience for politicians that regularly denigrate whites/Europeans. The same dynamics that pushes Latinos away from Trump will push many voters away from a democratic candidate. It is a mystery why you think it would be any different.

Could you name them, and give quotes? The problem is the right wing extremist nutcases say that is happening, and their little lemmings follow them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on January 13, 2019, 03:28:01 pm
Could you name them, and give quotes? The problem is the right wing extremist nutcases say that is happening, and their little lemmings follow them.
Any politician that talks about "white privilege" as if it is a real thing is engaging in race baiting and denigrating people happen to be "white". It is blatant prejudice.

BTW: I have no idea who the commentators referenced about are and could not care less.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on January 13, 2019, 03:29:49 pm
Any politician that talks about "white privilege" as if it is a real thing is engaging in race baiting and denigrating people happen to be "white" (whatever that means).

Did you grow up non-white in America?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on January 13, 2019, 03:32:35 pm
Did you grow up non-white in America?
You mean did I grow up in a region with endemic poverty and all of the social ills that come with it? If someone wants to talk about how poverty puts people at a disadvantage then they can talk about that and it would be a useful contribution to the political discussion. But left wing politicians don't. They choose to be racist pricks instead of actually talking about the real issue which is endemic poverty.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 13, 2019, 03:39:28 pm
You mean did I grow up in a region with endemic poverty and all of the social ills that come with it? If someone wants to talk about how poverty puts people at a disadvantage then they can talk about that and it would be a useful contribution to the political discussion. But left wing politicians don't. They choose to be racist pricks instead actually talking about the real issue which is poverty.

And you don't get that Trump is a racist prick?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on January 13, 2019, 03:51:23 pm
And you don't get that Trump is a racist prick?
My point is if Americans are forced to choose between two racist pricks then they will likely go with prick that is not attacking them personally. It is human nature to avoid people who insult you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 13, 2019, 04:01:49 pm
My point is if Americans are forced to choose between two racist pricks then they will likely go with prick that is not attacking them personally. It is human nature to avoid people who insult you.

So no actual ideas as to who the "racist pricks" are other than Trump. Who other than honkies like him hasn't he insulted?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on January 13, 2019, 04:29:20 pm
So no actual ideas as to who the "racist pricks" are other than Trump. Who other than honkies like him hasn't he insulted?
Any politican who delivers lectures on "white privilege" is a racist prick that is engaging in the same tactics that Trump uses because they are dividing people into "good" and "bad" groups based on race. This includes most democratic politicians such as Hillary Clinton.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 13, 2019, 04:33:20 pm
Any politicans who delivers lectures on "white privilege" is a racist prick that is engaging in the same tactics that Trump uses. This includes most democratic politicians.

Anyone in particular or just a general sort of accusation against anyone who doesn't support your particular political stance?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 13, 2019, 08:48:39 pm
The good news is that now we know, courtesy of Trump, that wheels were invented before walls. Was anyone else out there unaware of that?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 14, 2019, 01:16:25 am
Trump has concealed details of his face-to-face encounters with Putin from senior officials in administration (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-has-concealed-details-of-his-face-to-face-encounters-with-putin-from-senior-officials-in-administration/2019/01/12/65f6686c-1434-11e9-b6ad-9cfd62dbb0a8_story.html)

Trump’s Russia Cover-Up By the Numbers – 101 contacts with Russia-linked operatives --- updated to Jan 9, 2019 (https://themoscowproject.org/explainers/trumps-russia-cover-up-by-the-numbers-70-contacts-with-russia-linked-operatives/)

(https://i.imgur.com/cmL2NCB.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 14, 2019, 01:28:19 am
Any politician that talks about "white privilege" as if it is a real thing is engaging in race baiting and denigrating people happen to be "white". It is blatant prejudice.

I can't recall ever hearing politicians talk about "white privilege".   University academics and activists, maybe, but what politicians?  Is this just some general impression you have, that if left-wing activists are talking about "white privilege" then the Democrats must be talking about it as well?

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on January 14, 2019, 04:52:19 am
I can't recall ever hearing politicians talk about "white privilege".   University academics and activists, maybe, but what politicians?  Is this just some general impression you have, that if left-wing activists are talking about "white privilege" then the Democrats must be talking about it as well?
It shows up in the details of speeches but it does not get front line media attention - usually in speeches to groups that look favourably on that kind of prejudice. It is also possible that the democratic candidate will be smart enough to avoid that minefield and my concerns will be moot. All I am saying is if the dems pick an 'anti-trump' that engages in the same kind of hateful rhetoric that Trump does but directed at whites/males then they will only help Trump get elected because people are not going to vote for someone that denigrates them.  For example, Trump probably would have lost if Clinton had not made the "deplorables" comment. In a close race alienating a small number of voters in the wrong places makes a difference.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on January 14, 2019, 09:14:34 am
And you don't get that Trump is a racist prick?

Too simple to call him a bigot. We all are. Personally I think he could care less how big your lips are or how dark your skin is or how big your nose is. I think he defines people in one of two categories- for or against him I don't think he goes much further then that. Of he has any other criteria its whether you can lend him money or not.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 14, 2019, 11:38:40 am
Too simple to call him a bigot. We all are. Personally I think he could care less how big your lips are or how dark your skin is or how big your nose is. I think he defines people in one of two categories- for or against him I don't think he goes much further then that. Of he has any other criteria its whether you can lend him money or not.

I'll go along with you to the point that I think Trump would dance the funky chicken in front of anyone, regardless of color, so long as they were eligible to vote hopefully for him. But once you've cast that ballot, don't bother going to him to try renting living space if you're not white.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 14, 2019, 12:28:25 pm
It shows up in the details of speeches but it does not get front line media attention - usually in speeches to groups that look favourably on that kind of prejudice. It is also possible that the democratic candidate will be smart enough to avoid that minefield and my concerns will be moot. All I am saying is if the dems pick an 'anti-trump' that engages in the same kind of hateful rhetoric that Trump does but directed at whites/males then they will only help Trump get elected because people are not going to vote for someone that denigrates them.  For example, Trump probably would have lost if Clinton had not made the "deplorables" comment. In a close race alienating a small number of voters in the wrong places makes a difference.
I have to disagree with that particular statement.

Yes, Trump supporters have been quite eager in complaining and/or embracing the 'deplorables' label. But I figure anyone who would have been affected was probably already a Trump supporter. Anyone who was inclined to support Clinton probably recognized that the statement was largely one of accuracy.... that many/most/all Trump supporters ARE deplorable (assuming like me that you find racism deplorable).
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on January 14, 2019, 01:04:45 pm
Anyone who was inclined to support Clinton probably recognized that the statement was largely one of accuracy.... that many/most/all Trump supporters ARE deplorable (assuming like me that you find racism deplorable).
And many supporters of Clinton are racist bigots that constantly judge people only by the skin colour/gender. What is your point? The fact is a lot of very reasonable people voted for Trump because he was the lesser evil (many I work with). The fact that you can't understand this and choose to double down on the insults kind of proves my point. Insulting potential voters that make of the majority in key states is rarely a good strategy and if a lot of dems think like you then Trump will win again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 14, 2019, 01:32:07 pm
And many supporters of Clinton are racist bigots that constantly judge people only by the skin colour/gender. What is your point? The fact is a lot of very reasonable people voted for Trump because he was the lesser evil (many I work with). The fact that you can't understand this and choose to double down on the insults kind of proves my point. Insulting potential voters that make of the majority in key states is rarely a good strategy and if a lot of dems think like you then Trump will win again.

I think the point is that Trump proved himself a racist, (among many other shortfalls including the criminality of sexual assault) well before he entered the presidential race. I would be interested to hear how you have determined him the "lesser evil". If you work with a bunch of people who think that then you have my sympathy. And I would remind you that the majority of voters across the country did NOT vote for him. Add to that that a number of polls have shown that younger, college educated peop0le in the US admit they were lazy and did not head to the polls and so feel a responsibility for the downgrading Trump has brought to the country, and therefore will get off their ass and go mark an X next time. If they do, bye, bye Donny.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on January 14, 2019, 02:33:32 pm
I think the point is that Trump proved himself a racist, (among many other shortfalls including the criminality of sexual assault) well before he entered the presidential race. I would be interested to hear how you have determined him the "lesser evil". If you work with a bunch of people who think that then you have my sympathy. And I would remind you that the majority of voters across the country did NOT vote for him. Add to that that a number of polls have shown that younger, college educated peop0le in the US admit they were lazy and did not head to the polls and so feel a responsibility for the downgrading Trump has brought to the country, and therefore will get off their ass and go mark an X next time. If they do, bye, bye Donny.
In the same vein, do you think the Republicans will lose if they call people racist when they refer to white privilege?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 14, 2019, 03:07:29 pm
In the same vein, do you think the Republicans will lose if they call people racist when they refer to white privilege?

I think the racism that exists between the elite and non elite whites will be a factor that will be used by Trump, (or at least by his advisers who understand same), but I doubt it will be enough to offset such things as economic nationalism, ethnic racism, Russian collusion, etc. that continue to emerge as Trump goes on. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 15, 2019, 11:17:16 pm
New AG William Barr, chosen by Trump, says he "will not be bullied" and that "Mueller is not on a witch hunt" and will not fire him and suggests his report should be made public. DOH, Donald must be throwing **** around the west wing tonight!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 16, 2019, 03:51:06 am
New AG William Barr, chosen by Trump, says he "will not be bullied" and that "Mueller is not on a witch hunt" and will not fire him and suggests his report should be made public. DOH, Donald must be throwing **** around the west wing tonight!

I heard that but not sure if I believe it.  Also, he can hamper the investigation in many other ways as I understand.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 16, 2019, 10:31:27 am
Quote
Anyone who was inclined to support Clinton probably recognized that the statement was largely one of accuracy.... that many/most/all Trump supporters ARE deplorable (assuming like me that you find racism deplorable).
And many supporters of Clinton are racist bigots that constantly judge people only by the skin colour/gender. What is your point?
I was referring specifically to the use of the phrase 'deplorable' as used by Clinton during the election campaign. As I said, it may have been a label that many Trump supporters wear proudly, but I just can't picture it being a factor in changing Clinton's support.

"Hey Clinton insulted this group of people... that makes me want to join their ranks" just doesn't work as a narrative for me. Anyone who felt that way was probably going to vote for Trump regardless.

Quote
The fact is a lot of very reasonable people voted for Trump because he was the lesser evil (many I work with).
Actually no, I don't think a "reasonable person" would have considered Trump the "lesser evil". An ignorant voter might say Trump is the lesser evil. A racist voter who is able to hide their racism might say Trump is the lesser evil. But not an informed, non-racist voter. There is just so much evidence that Trump was worse in every way.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on January 16, 2019, 10:59:01 am
Actually no, I don't think a "reasonable person" would have considered Trump the "lesser evil". An ignorant voter might say Trump is the lesser evil. A racist voter who is able to hide their racism might say Trump is the lesser evil. But not an informed, non-racist voter. There is just so much evidence that Trump was worse in every way.
You are blinded by your own prejudice and arrogance. As I said, I know many Trump voters personally and some do fit the caricature that you presume. Others are reasonable, thoughtful and informed voters that were forced to choose between an individual which they disliked and policies which they despised. Now you can wallow in your bubble an pretend that the reasonable Trump voter does not exist but that does not mean they don't exist. It is these voters that the dems will lose if a left wing extremist is put forward as a candidate and given the geographical distribution of voters in the US.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 16, 2019, 12:09:59 pm
Quote
Actually no, I don't think a "reasonable person" would have considered Trump the "lesser evil". An ignorant voter might say Trump is the lesser evil. A racist voter who is able to hide their racism might say Trump is the lesser evil. But not an informed, non-racist voter. There is just so much evidence that Trump was worse in every way.
You are blinded by your own prejudice and arrogance. As I said, I know many Trump voters personally and some do fit the caricature that you presume. Others are reasonable, thoughtful and informed voters that were forced to choose between an individual which they disliked
Are you talking about Trump or clinton here?

After all, while some have suggested Clinton is somehow "not a likeable person/not charismatic", Trump is a racist. If someone says "I don't like Clinton's personality yet they find Trump acceptable, it does rather say that that person is either a racist, or at least A-Ok with racism.

Being an open bigot should kind of be a non-starter in the whole 'likeability' area.

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...and policies which they despised.
Again, who's policies are you suggesting people despised?

If you're suggesting that they voted for Trump because they liked his policies, then you have to wonder: what policies are those?

Trump's policies fall into one of 4 categories:

- Racist (e.g. muslim ban, support for stop and frisk)

- Inconsistent/contradictory (e.g. his wall, where the price jumped around from $4 billion to $12 billion, his "solve the middle east by letting the generals do what they want vs. firing the generals, he was against the Iraq invasion but actually supported it)

- Basically foolish or lacking in logical or scientific merit. (e.g. Global warming is a hoax)

- Incomplete (e.g. his health care plan which will cover everyone, but he didn't give any details because he didn't actually have a health care plan.)

So anyone who voted for Trump because of his policies needs to be asked "what policy?"

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Now you can wallow in your bubble an pretend that the reasonable Trump voter does not exist but that does not mean they don't exist.
Same could be said for bigfoot. Of course, the difference is we have more evidence that bigfoot exists than a "reasonable Trump supporter" exists.
Quote
It is these voters that the dems will lose if a left wing extremist is put forward as a candidate and given the geographical distribution of voters in the US.
I agree... nominating a left-wing extremist could cost the democrats the election. I hope they avoid a Bernie Sanders type.

But the fact that nominating an extreme-left candidate is a bad idea for the Dems doesn't mean that any Trump supporters are somehow reasonable and knowledgable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 16, 2019, 12:28:38 pm
You are blinded by your own prejudice and arrogance. As I said, I know many Trump voters personally and some do fit the caricature that you presume. Others are reasonable, thoughtful and informed voters that were forced to choose between an individual which they disliked and policies which they despised. Now you can wallow in your bubble an pretend that the reasonable Trump voter does not exist but that does not mean they don't exist. It is these voters that the dems will lose if a left wing extremist is put forward as a candidate and given the geographical distribution of voters in the US.

I wonder how many fit the caricature and how many are actually "informed". There seems to be a swath of voters who now admit they held their noses while they voted for Trump, but would not do so again now that they have become informed that about all he has "accomplished" is the longest government shutdown in US history. And I don't think it's the geographical distribution of voters so much as it is the completely gerrymandered EC system that favors the GOP. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on January 16, 2019, 12:48:39 pm
After all, while some have suggested Clinton is somehow "not a likeable person/not charismatic", Trump is a racist. If someone says "I don't like Clinton's personality yet they find Trump acceptable, it does rather say that that person is either a racist, or at least A-Ok with racism.
Your opinions on racism are not that much different than a devout Catholic's opinion on abortion. i.e. it is a core values issue for you which difficult for you to support a candidate that repudiates those values. However, many devout Catholics recognize that there are other issues at stake and choose to vote against their values on abortion because they look at the bigger picture. That is what many Trump voters do when it comes to his blatant racism. It is quite ridiculous for you to assume that anyone that does not make the racism issue a 'core value' issue like you must be racist. Your argument is like saying that any pro-life candidate that supports a pro-choice politician is condoning murder. The big picture matters and trade offs are required.

If you're suggesting that they voted for Trump because they liked his policies, then you have to wonder: what policies are those?
Trump was willing to actually do something about immigration. His approach is nonsensical at times but for people you care about the issue doing something is better than the dems who want to eliminate the barriers that currently exist. The dems have a horrible track record when it comes to excessive regulation (i.e. regulation that far exceeds what is necessary to protect health and safety). Trump has been cutting back on this red tape. The obsession with identity politics/political correctness that many dem politicians have is a huge problem for the people who are being scapegoated (i.e. the majority of voters). Trump pushes back.

You need to remember that equally well informed people can look at the same information and come to different conclusions simply because the prioritize things differently. Your desire to call anyone who does not share your priorities "uninformed" is quite arrogant.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 16, 2019, 01:49:53 pm
Your opinions on racism are not that much different than a devout Catholic's opinion on abortion. i.e. it is a core values issue for you which difficult for you to support a candidate that repudiates those values. However, many devout Catholics recognize that there are other issues at stake and choose to vote against their values on abortion because they look at the bigger picture. That is what many Trump voters do when it comes to his blatant racism. It is quite ridiculous for you to assume that anyone that does not make the racism issue a 'core value' issue like you must be racist. Your argument is like saying that any pro-life candidate that supports a pro-choice politician is condoning murder. The big picture matters and trade offs are required.
Trump was willing to actually do something about immigration. His approach is nonsensical at times but for people you care about the issue doing something is better than the dems who want to eliminate the barriers that currently exist. The dems have a horrible track record when it comes to excessive regulation (i.e. regulation that far exceeds what is necessary to protect health and safety). Trump has been cutting back on this red tape. The obsession with identity politics/political correctness that many dem politicians have is a huge problem for the people who are being scapegoated (i.e. the majority of voters). Trump pushes back.

You need to remember that equally well informed people can look at the same information and come to different conclusions simply because the prioritize things differently. Your desire to call anyone who does not share your priorities "uninformed" is quite arrogant.

So on the one hand you sugest, (erroneously) that the dems want to eliminate current barriers to immigration, and in the next breath accuse them of excessive regulations. Sounds like you once again contradicted yourself.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 16, 2019, 02:56:55 pm
Quote
After all, while some have suggested Clinton is somehow "not a likeable person/not charismatic", Trump is a racist. If someone says "I don't like Clinton's personality yet they find Trump acceptable, it does rather say that that person is either a racist, or at least A-Ok with racism.
Your opinions on racism are not that much different than a devout Catholic's opinion on abortion. i.e. it is a core values issue for you which difficult for you to support a candidate that repudiates those values. However, many devout Catholics recognize that there are other issues at stake and choose to vote against their values on abortion because they look at the bigger picture. That is what many Trump voters do when it comes to his blatant racism. It is quite ridiculous for you to assume that anyone that does not make the racism issue a 'core value' issue like you must be racist. Your argument is like saying that any pro-life candidate that supports a pro-choice politician is condoning murder. The big picture matters and trade offs are required.
You're right.... I am very firm on the whole "racism should be a reason to automatically reject a candidate".

There are several reasons for that: if you're racist, you can't adequately represent all member of the population; it is a sign of ignorance and faulty thinking; it leads to the government making decisions which are harmful to the country as a whole (including people who aren't members of the affected minority).

There is however a couple of difference between my 'racism is wrong' stance and the pro-life 'abortion is wrong' stance... 1) in general those holding pro-choice stances are also in favor of improved sex ed, which probably has a bigger effect at lowering the abortion rates than anything the pro-life people have done, 2) Those holding pro-life stances tend to base their opinions on selective interpretations bible, a work of fiction that is extremely contradictory (both with itself and with science/facts)

Compare that with an anti-racism stance, which is based on a simple idea that probably everyone would agree with: equality. No invisible sky daddy involved.
Quote
Quote
If you're suggesting that they voted for Trump because they liked his policies, then you have to wonder: what policies are those?
Trump was willing to actually do something about immigration.

Remember when I mentioned the different categories of Trump's election promises/policies? His immigration policies tended to fall into the "racist" category. (e.g. his "muslim ban"). It should also be pointed out that many of his immigration policy was based on false or misleading information.

If your choices are: 1) do nothing, or 2) do something racist, I think the best option would be to do nothing.
Quote
His approach is nonsensical at times but for people you care about the issue doing something is better than the dems who want to eliminate the barriers that currently exist.
Except of course that's not the position that the Democrats actually hold. Although there may be a few "open borders/let them all in" type, the vast majority of Democrats have no problem with border enforcement (including increased funding for electronic surveilance along the border), removal of illegal immigrants who commit crimes, etc. A Trump supporter suggesting that the "dems want to eliminate barriers" is expressing a lack of knowledge.

Anyone who says they like Trump's policies better is either 1) racist (can't let those smelly brown people in the country), or 2) basing their opinions from a position of ignorance (e.g. assuming immigrants "bring crime" when the actual crime rate by illegal immigrants is really low)
Quote
The dems have a horrible track record when it comes to excessive regulation (i.e. regulation that far exceeds what is necessary to protect health and safety). Trump has been cutting back on this red tape.
Great... his removal of financial regulations will bring us back to the glory days of 2007, when banks had free rein and we had a nice economic bubble that never would end. After all, what could go wrong?

Quote
You need to remember that equally well informed people can look at the same information and come to different conclusions simply because the prioritize things differently.
Here's the thing...

If we were talking about Canadian politics, I'd say its true: People can vote for a different party and still be considered a decent person because they just have different priorities in forming their political beliefs. If we were talking about American politics a decade ago I would say the same thing. (Heck, I wouldn't think less of someone if they voted for Romney instead of Obama. Heck, I've even defended Bush Jr. a few times on other forums.)

But Trump and the current political environment are different in soooo many ways. Trump is and individual with so many negatives (racism, incompetence, lying) and absolutely no positives. Simply being a "difference in priority" does not explain or justify why someone would actually support him.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 16, 2019, 03:05:43 pm
So Pelosi wants to delay the "state of the union" speech due to the fact that there is a shortage of security personnel available to cover such an event due to the current government shutdown. I bet Trump didn't see that one coming. Mind you he never seems to see far beyond his nose.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 16, 2019, 03:12:03 pm
So Pelosi wants to delay the "state of the union" speech due to the fact that there is a shortage of security personnel available to cover such an event due to the current government shutdown. I bet Trump didn't see that one coming. Mind you he never seems to see far beyond his nose.
Maybe Trump could just tweet the state of the union instead.

By the way, the U.S. coast guard has stopped receiving pay checks this week.

https://abc7chicago.com/politics/us-coast-guard-misses-paychecks-due-to-government-shutdown-trump-fails-to-bypass-pelosi/5082737/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 16, 2019, 03:23:31 pm
Maybe Trump could just tweet the state of the union instead.

By the way, the U.S. coast guard has stopped receiving pay checks this week.

https://abc7chicago.com/politics/us-coast-guard-misses-paychecks-due-to-government-shutdown-trump-fails-to-bypass-pelosi/5082737/

Yep, he's the king of tweets. Apparently Pelosi suggested he could send a written version of the address that could be read. And I don't imagine fishermen, yachtsmen or freighter traffic will slow down due to concerns about possible lack of coast guard preparedness. And of course "boat people" might just see an advantage there. So much for that "border security" plan.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on January 16, 2019, 04:50:11 pm
There is however a couple of difference between my 'racism is wrong' stance and the pro-life 'abortion is wrong' stance...
Special pleading. You are not against racism since I assume you are fine with affirmative action, diversity quotas and other such discrimination. You are only against racism when it harms the wrong type of people. The only people who can truly argue they are against racism are people who think that race is never a relevant criteria to be discussed or used.

It is not unlike an anti-abortion advocate arguing that abortion is murder while having no issue with capital punishment.

Except of course that's not the position that the Democrats actually hold. Although there may be a few "open borders/let them all in" type, the vast majority of Democrats have no problem with border enforcement
Dems at the municipal and state levels regularly frustrate efforts to reduce the incentives for illegal immigration with "sanctuary cities" and other regulations. Not to mention their desire for a second amnesty. These actions undermine any claims of wishing to stop illegal immigration and make the perception of many Trump voters accurate.

It is also hysterical that you say that if someone represents policies of a political party in a way the party does not like then they are "uninformed". If that criteria is used then virtually every left wing voter is  hopelessly uninformed because they always misrepresent right wing policies. Given that context why are are "uninformed" Trump voters a problem?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 16, 2019, 06:59:29 pm
TimG has a brand new definition of racism that no one else uses....    ::)

TimG thinks affirmative action is racist akin to what the KKK believe....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on January 16, 2019, 07:04:41 pm
TimG has a brand new definition of racism that no one else uses....
I am using the dictionary definition of racism. People like you think racism is great as long as the "oppressor" races are targets. What is really frightening is you are such a zealot that you cannot understand that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on January 16, 2019, 07:57:51 pm
Your opinions on racism are not that much different than a devout Catholic's opinion on abortion. i.e. it is a core values issue for you which difficult for you to support a candidate that repudiates those values. However, many devout Catholics recognize that there are other issues at stake and choose to vote against their values on abortion because they look at the bigger picture. That is what many Trump voters do when it comes to his blatant racism. It is quite ridiculous for you to assume that anyone that does not make the racism issue a 'core value' issue like you must be racist. Your argument is like saying that any pro-life candidate that supports a pro-choice politician is condoning murder. The big picture matters and trade offs are required.
Trump was willing to actually do something about immigration. His approach is nonsensical at times but for people you care about the issue doing something is better than the dems who want to eliminate the barriers that currently exist. The dems have a horrible track record when it comes to excessive regulation (i.e. regulation that far exceeds what is necessary to protect health and safety). Trump has been cutting back on this red tape. The obsession with identity politics/political correctness that many dem politicians have is a huge problem for the people who are being scapegoated (i.e. the majority of voters). Trump pushes back.

You need to remember that equally well informed people can look at the same information and come to different conclusions simply because the prioritize things differently. Your desire to call anyone who does not share your priorities "uninformed" is quite arrogant.

I can't stand Trump. I totally agree with your analysis.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 17, 2019, 09:34:53 am
New AG William Barr, chosen by Trump, says he "will not be bullied" and that "Mueller is not on a witch hunt" and will not fire him and suggests his report should be made public. DOH, Donald must be throwing **** around the west wing tonight!

Talk is cheap. Barr said the right things to Democrat senators during some hearings? Big deal.  Wait to see what Barr actually does.  I doubt that they picked him because they think he's a paragon of integrity.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 17, 2019, 09:42:19 am
We've officially gone from "No collusion, no collusion", to "The President himself didn't directly collude, and whatever happened between the campaign and the Russians took place a long time ago."

https://www.axios.com/giuliani-never-said-no-collusion-campaign-russia-investigation-879981f9-8b22-4e5d-9fed-3419958cc010.html

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 17, 2019, 11:13:41 am
there's a few parody twitter accounts worth following; this one is a gem!

(https://i.imgur.com/QCaLhjM.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 17, 2019, 11:23:47 am
And this is lead council to an equally unhinged client who happens to be the POTUS. It might be a workable theme for a soap opera series, but it shouldn't he happening in the "real world".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 17, 2019, 11:25:53 am
Why would Rudy Guliani even become Trump's attorney?  Is he insane?  Does he want to sit around for years and publicly defend high profile corruption?  Why would he want to go down with a sinking ship?  Why would any sane person want to be connected to this admin right now when any wrong move could land them in prison?

Maybe Trump has dirt on Rudy, who knows.  The loyalty is odd.  I've never seen anyone repeatedly, over long periods of time, ruin their own once-legendary reputation like Rudy has.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 17, 2019, 12:32:06 pm
Why would Rudy Guliani even become Trump's attorney?  Is he insane?  Does he want to sit around for years and publicly defend high profile corruption?  Why would he want to go down with a sinking ship?  Why would any sane person want to be connected to this admin right now when any wrong move could land them in prison?

Maybe Trump has dirt on Rudy, who knows.  The loyalty is odd.  I've never seen anyone repeatedly, over long periods of time, ruin their own once-legendary reputation like Rudy has.

Who knows, maybe Trump does have some dirt on Rudy. I for one though don't think he is totally "sane". He's nearly 75 years old and I suspect we are seeing signs of dementia setting in. The way he meanders all over the place as he speaks and constantly contradicts himself are the signs I'm suggesting. Between the two of them they make quite a pair. If we could just get Andrew Scheer to sigh on we'd have "The New Three Stooges", daily weekdays.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 17, 2019, 01:37:20 pm
And the **** show continues: Trump of course has his knickers in a knot because Pelosi has refused to invite him to congress to deliver his State of the Union address, suggesting that is due to the fact that security won't be sufficient for such an event because of his government shutdown. So in his typical childish type reaction he has now tried to refuse her access to government air transport on her planned trip over seas. He tells her she can fly commercial if she wants to go. But he also announces that one of her destinations is Afghanistan which is a breach of security protocol since it is a war zone. Pelosi of course has an IQ that far exceeds Trumps which seems to hover around room temperature, and now she has the power to tweek him, but in the meantime the whole place looks like a bunch of kids fighting in a sandbox. When does this nightmare end I wonder?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 17, 2019, 02:31:57 pm
Why would Rudy Guliani even become Trump's attorney?  Is he insane?  Does he want to sit around for years and publicly defend high profile corruption?  Why would he want to go down with a sinking ship?  Why would any sane person want to be connected to this admin right now when any wrong move could land them in prison?

Maybe Trump has dirt on Rudy, who knows.  The loyalty is odd.  I've never seen anyone repeatedly, over long periods of time, ruin their own once-legendary reputation like Rudy has.

Sad legacy for "America's Mayor".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 18, 2019, 01:28:23 pm
Trump moves ever closer to impeachment, and possible criminal charges. Cohen really flipped.

President Donald Trump directed his longtime attorney Michael Cohen to lie to Congress about negotiations to build a Trump Tower in Moscow, according to two federal law enforcement officials involved in an investigation of the matter.
... after the election, the President personally instructed him to lie — by claiming that negotiations ended months earlier than they actually did — in order to obscure Trump's involvement.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/18/politics/cohen-trump-buzzfeed-court-filings/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 18, 2019, 07:55:15 pm
Or not....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 18, 2019, 08:02:23 pm
Buzzfeed and Mueller are at a standoff. We'll see how it evolves.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 19, 2019, 11:08:09 am
FiveThirtyEight had an 'emergency' podcast on this on Friday.  They thought this was heavy smoke and/or fire however a real publication needs to verify it to keep this one going.  And this is subordinate, in terms of triggering impeachment, to clear evidence of collusion with Russia.

But yeah.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 19, 2019, 12:22:34 pm
Buzzfeed and Mueller are at a standoff. We'll see how it evolves.

The statement from Mueller's team doesn't say that the whole thing is wrong, just certain portions and didn't go into detail on what they dispute.


Ronan Farrow also spoke on this:
Quote
I can’t speak to Buzzfeed’s sourcing, but, for what it’s worth, I declined to run with parts of the narrative they conveyed based on a source central to the story repeatedly disputing the idea that Trump directly issued orders of that kind.

I am thinking that the word "directly" may be key here.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 19, 2019, 12:38:09 pm
The statement from Mueller's team doesn't say that the whole thing is wrong, just certain portions and didn't go into detail on what they dispute.


Ronan Farrow also spoke on this:
I am thinking that the word "directly" may be key here.

 -k

Well make sure to have the popcorn ready for Feb. 7 when Cohen is set to testify to congress on camera. Even though he has admitted to lying previously, I doubt he will this time, especially since I suspect he is smart enough to realize that Mueller in all likelihood, knows everything Cohen does. More lies would not be helpful to trying to get a reduction in his sentence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 19, 2019, 01:10:28 pm
Buzzfeed and Mueller are at a standoff. We'll see how it evolves.

'word on the street' has it that buzzfeed's claimed '2 law enforcement personnel' sources set-up the buzzfeed journalist (he with the already sketchy background - Jason Leopold)... plays into DefenserRudy's ties with the heavily biased NY FBI office (biased towards Trump/against Comey) - perhaps with dirty trickster Roger Stone in the mix. So, to be expected, plays right into Trump & surrogates charges against the "fake news media":

(https://i.imgur.com/ryDLEy1.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on January 19, 2019, 01:57:19 pm
Mueller has been great at playing his cards close to the chest, and I suspect that will continue.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 19, 2019, 03:31:13 pm
Well if you are one of the 800,000 US government workers not being paid due to Trump's shutdown nonsense, and you just listened to his latest screed on the issue, you will be advised that nothing is about to change any time soon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 19, 2019, 04:01:23 pm
Well if you are one of the 800,000 US government workers not being paid due to Trump's shutdown nonsense, and you just listened to his latest screed on the issue, you will be advised that nothing is about to change any time soon.

Actually, technically both Trump and Congress are equally responsible for the shutdown.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 19, 2019, 04:09:01 pm
Actually, technically both Trump and Congress are equally responsible for the shutdown.

Technically yes. Realistically in this case, no. Congress has agreed to negotiate but they want the government re-opened first. Trump won't agree unless he gets his own way, without negotiation. The onus is clearly on him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 19, 2019, 04:29:20 pm
Technically yes. Realistically in this case, no. Congress has agreed to negotiate but they want the government re-opened first. Trump won't agree unless he gets his own way, without negotiation. The onus is clearly on him.

I suppose that may be true.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 19, 2019, 04:33:58 pm
I find extremely hypocritical and morally disgusting that Congress has the gumption to refuse to fund a border wall but has found it perfectly acceptable on so many occasions to fund the POTUS' more ridiculous wars and other military engagements that have killed hundreds of thousands over the decades.  Great job!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 19, 2019, 04:34:51 pm
I suppose that may be true.

The dems reportedly have tried 9 times now to reopen government, with an agreement to negotiate the border issue, but McConnell won't send those proposals up for a vote because he claims Trump won't sign off, so it would be a waste of time. Meanwhile I'm glad I'm not flying in or out of an American airport just now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 19, 2019, 04:41:01 pm
I find extremely hypocritical and morally disgusting that Congress has the gumption to refuse to fund a border wall but has found it perfectly acceptable on so many occasions to fund the POTUS' more ridiculous wars and other military engagements that have killed hundreds of thousands over the decades.  Great job!

The US economy would be nowhere near what it is today without the military industrial complex.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 19, 2019, 06:18:26 pm
The dems reportedly have tried 9 times now to reopen government, with an agreement to negotiate the border issue, but McConnell won't send those proposals up for a vote because he claims Trump won't sign off, so it would be a waste of time. Meanwhile I'm glad I'm not flying in or out of an American airport just now.

The shutdown is Trump's main poker chip as a negotiating tactic, I guess he's using it.  He's a ruthless negotiator.  He's pretty successful at making everyone his ****.

Kudos to Pelosi for pulling out the State of the Union as a negotiating chip.  High stakes poker baby!  Problem is Trump is fearless, he literally doesn't give a ****, that's a scary opponent to have.  I don't see Trump blinking 1st, but will be interesting to see how this ends. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 19, 2019, 06:31:34 pm
Trump now using DACA as a poker chip.  Pelosi declines.

I don't see the Dems agreeing on the wall, and I don't see Trump backing down.  How will this end?  WHO.  WILL.  BLINK!??!?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on January 19, 2019, 07:21:01 pm
I don't see the Dems agreeing on the wall, and I don't see Trump backing down.  How will this end?  WHO.  WILL.  BLINK!??!?
The weak leak is the senate. Get enough GOP senators to override a veto and the matter is settled.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 19, 2019, 07:25:54 pm
The shutdown is Trump's main poker chip as a negotiating tactic, I guess he's using it.  He's a ruthless negotiator.  He's pretty successful at making everyone his ****.

Kudos to Pelosi for pulling out the State of the Union as a negotiating chip.  High stakes poker baby!  Problem is Trump is fearless, he literally doesn't give a ****, that's a scary opponent to have.  I don't see Trump blinking 1st, but will be interesting to see how this ends.
  Not sure what you mean by "making everyone his ****". If it's what I think you mean than it's certainly backfiring with Pelosi. Trump blinked in his speech today, but Nancy ain't buying it. I bet he really blinks when he gets impeached.

I suspect that the Mueller report backing up what Cohen says Feb 7 will be ample evidence to get at least that going, if not indictment as well.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 21, 2019, 07:15:51 am
Pence says Trump 'has a (wall) dream'... ala MLK, no less! (https://twitter.com/i/videos/1087115690069446656)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on January 21, 2019, 09:00:50 am
The weak leak is the senate. Get enough GOP senators to override a veto and the matter is settled.
The weak link are the Republicans. Full stop. It's not Trump. The Republican Party is every bit as complicit in his treason as his kids are. Especially that **** Mitch.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 21, 2019, 10:00:55 am
Pence says Trump 'has a (wall) dream'... ala MLK, no less! (https://twitter.com/i/videos/1087115690069446656)

Gawd.  Pence is a terrific wordsmith, I'll give him that.  He's got such a silver tongue that a lot of people who listen to him talk might not realize how moronic what he said is.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 21, 2019, 04:39:40 pm
I wonder if, since both Giuliani and Trump both contradict each other on a day to day basis, and have been caught in a myriad of lies, and seem equally incompetent, will Mueller finally decide he won't accept written answers from Donny anymore and attempt to make him actually sit down to answer questions. If so I would suggest Trump hire another (competent) lawyer before sitting down. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 21, 2019, 05:47:23 pm
The weak link are the Republicans. Full stop. It's not Trump. The Republican Party is every bit as complicit in his treason as his kids are. Especially that **** Mitch.

What treason?  Trump was elected partly on a promise to build a wall.  This is democracy at work.  In the US, democracy means gridlock, and this is the most nastiest kind.

The Republicans, the Democrats, and Trump are equally complicit in this shutdown.  At least the Democrats (allegedly) say they're willing to negotiate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on January 21, 2019, 05:49:06 pm
What treason?  Trump was elected partly on a promise to build a wall.

No, he was elected on a promise that Mexico would pay for a wall to be built. This shutdown is about him stealing money from taxpayers to pay for his broken promise. The shutdown is 100% on Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 21, 2019, 05:53:06 pm
No, he was elected on a promise that Mexico would pay for a wall to be built. This shutdown is about him stealing money from taxpayers to pay for his broken promise. The shutdown is 100% on Trump.

Oh yeah forgot about that.  You're right. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 22, 2019, 11:56:27 am
a twist on standard photo-shop thinning... to also include hand/finger size:
(https://gizmodo.com/president-trump-posts-altered-photos-to-facebook-and-in-1831909849/amp)
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--KSHsuVu7--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/k2fxizm4jpy9bzctcsrw.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 22, 2019, 02:30:02 pm
I wonder if Giuliani is as dim witted as he seems, (and as is his client), or is he trying to work some sort of elaborate bait and switch thingy to take focus away from two years of Trump's time in the White House that has produced basically nothing but same.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 22, 2019, 09:34:43 pm
Poor old Donny seems to now be having a little problem with his personal lawyer. Rudy claims he "has a good knowledge of the facts so I can spin them different ways"
WHAT?
Even Trump, possibly with a little advice from other, perhaps more sane staff, has come out to scold Rudy for his comments of late. And the gongshow carries on.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/22/trump-rudy-giuliani-relationship-1120008

They do make quite a pair.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 23, 2019, 12:13:53 pm
I hope Nancy Pelosi sticks to her guns and keeps the door locked at the capitol to keep Trump out for his state of the union speech. He's such a boring speaker anyway.

A more important reason for her to stick to it is that if Trump gets her to give in, then with his childish bullying attitude, he will use this process any time he doesn't get his way, regardless of people starving and reduced border security.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 23, 2019, 01:04:10 pm
And the plot sickens: Cohen now wants to postpone testifying Feb 7 because he claims threats to his family from Trump
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 23, 2019, 01:46:52 pm
Kudos to Nancy, she stuck to her guns. "Open the government or find another place for you S of the U speech. I can see another Trump Tantrum on the near horizon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 23, 2019, 04:24:25 pm
I hasten to add though that I am interested to see just how Trump will describe the current "state" of the union. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on January 24, 2019, 09:45:58 am
Kudos to Nancy, she stuck to her guns. "Open the government or find another place for you S of the U speech. I can see another Trump Tantrum on the near horizon.

Stephen Colbert had a skit last night where an older couple offered their Banquet Hall for the speech.  It was quite funny.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 24, 2019, 11:52:30 am
Stephen Colbert had a skit last night where an older couple offered their Banquet Hall for the speech.  It was quite funny.

I didn't see that but I can imagine it being funny. Colbert runs a good show IMO. One of my favs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 24, 2019, 12:43:31 pm
so Trump blinked over the SOTU... with a 34% (overall) approval rating in latest AP polling - how long before his shutdown blink?

(https://i.imgur.com/y9KsxvV.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 24, 2019, 01:21:26 pm
I would imagine that as more and more stories emerge, such as flight safety being threatened due to controllers having to drive for Uber or wait tables between shifts in the control towers, Trump will have his handlers scrambling to concoct some sort of strategy to let him re open the gov., while of course trying to make him look like a hero for having done so. Let's hope it doesn't take a mid air collision to hasten that process. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on January 24, 2019, 03:14:03 pm
Defeated by modern technology, who could have predicted this?

modern technology (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd5Xy8T0xK4)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 24, 2019, 09:16:02 pm
Wilbur Ross, he's even a worse, scum sucking, elitist piece of SHUT than his boss. Hard to believe but he demonstrated that today. and of course guess who supported him. That swamo is getting fuller by the day. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 24, 2019, 09:44:29 pm
You're allowed to say ****....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 24, 2019, 09:51:31 pm
You're allowed to say ****....

****

Sometimes when my anger level goes up, my typing skills go down.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 24, 2019, 10:48:13 pm
Defeated by modern technology, who could have predicted this?

modern technology (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd5Xy8T0xK4)

They were apprehended.  Looks like modern technology helped the US too in this case.

This is the kind of system they need on the border, not a wall.  There's already walls on the long stretches of the border where most people try to cross, like near the rio grande. and Tijuana/san diego.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 25, 2019, 09:18:52 am
Big news from the Russia probe today as Mueller has arrested Roger Stone.  Charges include witness tampering, lying to Congress, and obstruction. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-idUSKCN1PJ16M

The charges accuse Stone of acting as the go-between between the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks.

More on this: https://www.vox.com/2019/1/25/17314972/roger-stone-indicted-mueller



 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 25, 2019, 09:38:37 am
They were apprehended.  Looks like modern technology helped the US too in this case.

This is the kind of system they need on the border, not a wall.  There's already walls on the long stretches of the border where most people try to cross, like near the rio grande. and Tijuana/san diego.

I read a while back that Roger Stone and Sam Nunberg knew that Trump wouldn't be able to stay on-message on the topic of border security, so they came up with "the Wall" as a simple concept that his little brain could grasp and articulate to similarly small brains. It wasn't intended to be a literal physical wall, it was supposed to be a metaphor for strong border security.  But because his little brain only understands actual physical walls, that's what he's fixated on.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 25, 2019, 11:26:26 am
I read a while back that Roger Stone and Sam Nunberg knew that Trump wouldn't be able to stay on-message on the topic of border security, so they came up with "the Wall" as a simple concept that his little brain could grasp and articulate to similarly small brains. It wasn't intended to be a literal physical wall, it was supposed to be a metaphor for strong border security.  But because his little brain only understands actual physical walls, that's what he's fixated on.


 -k

As bizarre  as that concept sounds, in this case, and with these characters, I have no trouble believing it. Stone is facing some serious charges and I haven't heard a response so far from Trump. I can imagine Stone will be trying to read the tea leaves as to whether he keeps his trap shut and hope the Trumpster will hand him a pardon, or does he spill his guts in hopes of a reduced sentence. If justice were to actually be served they should both end up sharing a cell.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 25, 2019, 01:35:01 pm
How do you tell when Donald Trump is lying? We all know the answer to that old one, and he is doing one hell of a good job of it right now. I can see he is trying to save face because he has had to capitulate and re open the government with no funds for his "big, beautiful , lovely, beautiful, blah, blah, blah" wall. Sorry Donny, now go comb your hair.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 26, 2019, 05:20:34 am
In the last 2 months, the 538 has his approval sliding from an aggregate of 43% to 39.3%.

It could take a giant hit now as his base is said to be pissed off that he caved on this.

Zero strategy here: start out by announcing that he will OWN THE SHUTDOWN then take a no-compromise stance on the shutdown, with no idea what the government does.  Today New York's airport got shutdown.  DUH.

What a **** moron.  He's actually a testimonial to how great America *was* in that they elected a malignant monkey to lead it and it's not a smoking ruin yet.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 26, 2019, 12:09:26 pm
Zero strategy here: start out by announcing that he will OWN THE SHUTDOWN then take a no-compromise stance on the shutdown, with no idea what the government does.  Today New York's airport got shutdown.  DUH.

The whole thing was incredibly dumb.

First of all he had 2 years with a Republican Senate and Republican House to get his agenda passed, and all he got done was his big tax cut.  Critics liked to say that Obama had 2 years with a majority in both houses and all he got done was the ACA. Well, what did Trump get done in his 2 years with a majority in both houses?


So, two years of a Republican House of Reps and funding for the wall isn't an emergency. The Democrats win the House of Reps, and all of a sudden funding for the wall is an emergency and he won't reopen government until he gets it.  Coincidence? No. Not a coincidence. This was an attempt to "big-man" Nancy Pelosi. He was trying to turn this into a Shart Of The Deal moment, and it failed spectacularly.  She's older than dirt, she was there when dirt was invented, and she has seen all this before. She wasn't going to get buffaloed by an imbecile with a transparent and amateurish playbook.


He seems to have imagined that "government" was people sitting at desks shuffling stacks of paper around, and had no idea that a shut-down would have effects that people would actually notice.  He was happy to "own the shutdown" when he (and probably many of his dumber followers) didn't think "government" actually did anything, but that stance quickly changed to "no shutdown! no shutdown! You're the shutdown!"


They manufactured a fake crisis.  Then they manufactured a stand-off to address their fake crisis. Then they lost the stand-off that they invented.  Mr Trump campaigned on this notion that he's a master negotiator, a master deal-maker. Many times he criticized his predecessor for not being able to make deals.   But in two years on the job, we haven't seen Mr Big Deals make one single deal happen, and it's clear that his masterful negotiating skills are total fiction.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 26, 2019, 12:13:04 pm
I suspect Trump is bluffing at the moment and at the same time hoping like hell the adults that surround him will come up with a plan to create a metaphoric wall, rather than his concrete, er steel slats,,er, er whatever wall, and make it look like he won, and everyone can roll their eyes and move on. I think if he shut the government down again, the **** would really hit the fan. Metaphorically of course.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on January 26, 2019, 12:31:43 pm
Mr Trump campaigned on this notion that he's a master negotiator, a master deal-maker.
ROTFL. Trump's negotiating strategy is to make grotesquely unethical and abusive demands of a partner who is in weaker position and wait for them to cave. Trump has no idea how to deal with people who are his equal and cannot be bullied into submission. Trump is the exact opposite of what I would call a 'master negotiator'.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 26, 2019, 12:40:30 pm
And we all saw who caved this time. A little old lady from Baltimore whooped his ass.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 26, 2019, 12:40:58 pm
He's a walking advertising for the pathetic state of the American ruling class.  The people who built the corporations of the 19th and 20th century, were savvy and cunning.  They worked hard and sometimes even started in poverty.  The current leaders aren't up to snuff. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 26, 2019, 12:51:21 pm
Trump managed to achieve the exact opposite a few times: he started in the lap of luxury and took daddy's money and blew it going bankrupt various times. To the point were US banks wouldn't touch him hence, he had to cozy up to a Russian dictator. I feel a little sympathy for the majority of American's who didn't vote for him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 26, 2019, 01:46:42 pm
The consequence of listening to clowns like Coulter and Limbaugh.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on January 26, 2019, 01:50:36 pm
The current leaders aren't up to snuff.


Judy Faulkner
Elizabeth Holmes
Elon Musk
Even Spiegel
Mark Zuckerberg
Dustin Moskovitz
Nathan Blecharczyk
Joe Gebbia
Diane Hendricks
Marian Ilitch
Bobby Murphy
Eren Ozmen
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 26, 2019, 02:05:11 pm
ROTFL. Trump's negotiating strategy is make grotesquely unethical and abusive demands of a partner who is in weaker position and wait for them to cave.

That seems to be about the only play in his playbook. Whether it's "we're going to renegotiate the contract or I'll declare bankruptcy and you might not get paid at all" from his construction days, or "NAFTA is terrible! I'm going to tear it up. It's finished. ... wellll, I might not tear it up if you guys give me a really good deal", it seems like the only thing he knows is how to try to intimidate people he thinks he has leverage over.  If it was poker, he'd be the guy who goes "all-in" every hand because he thinks he's got the biggest stack and thinks everybody's scared of him.  If this was poker, he'd have drastically underestimated Nancy's willingness to call, and underestimated the size of her stack.

But if this was cards, Nancy was playing poker while Trump was playing the game where you have a card face-out on your forehead and try and guess whether it's bigger than the other guy's card.

Trump has no idea how to deal with people who are his equal and cannot be bullied into submission. Trump is the exact opposite of what I would call a 'master negotiator'.

A lot of people mistook him for the guy he plays on his TV show. I think maybe even Trump himself imagines he's the guy he plays on his TV show.  That's the image he sold to the electorate... and enough of them bought it to get him elected.

I still don't get why it took him 23 months to decide to fight Congress to get funding for his wall.  Did he think Pelosi was weak and he could walk over her?  Was he afraid to fight a Republican controlled House of Reps because he didn't want to fight his own party?  They had the White House, the Senate, and the House of Reps... why wait until after they've lost the House of Reps to turn this into a fight?  The only thing I can think of is that he wanted to fight Nancy and show her who's boss.



 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 26, 2019, 02:06:54 pm

Judy Faulkner
Elizabeth Holmes
Elon Musk
Even Spiegel
Mark Zuckerberg
Dustin Moskovitz
Nathan Blecharczyk
Joe Gebbia
Diane Hendricks
Marian Ilitch
Bobby Murphy
Eren Ozmen

Elizabeth Holmes?  Is this a list of people who are soon to be in jail?

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on January 26, 2019, 02:47:23 pm
But if this was cards, Nancy was playing poker while Trump was playing the game where you have a card face-out on your forehead and try and guess whether it's bigger than the other guy's card.
;D

I still don't get why it took him 23 months to decide to fight Congress to get funding for his wall.  Did he think Pelosi was weak and he could walk over her?  Was he afraid to fight a Republican controlled House of Reps because he didn't want to fight his own party?  They had the White House, the Senate, and the House of Reps... why wait until after they've lost the House of Reps to turn this into a fight?  The only thing I can think of is that he wanted to fight Nancy and show her who's boss.
The GOP was not interested in funding the wall either and the political optics of shutting down government to force his own party to cave were so bad that even someone like Trump could understand (well, after it was explained 6 or so times with crayon pictures).  I suspect Trump figured it was a no lose scenario where he gets cheered on for trying to keep his promise while Pelosi takes the heat.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 26, 2019, 03:02:13 pm
Steve King just had a town hall where he claims, now that he has been stripped of committee appointments due to his racist comments, he is now going to work more closely with Trump. Now there's a "birds of a feather" relationship if ever there was one. I guess Trump could use a buddy to console him after Pelosi knocked him down a notch.

GOP Rep. Steve King questioned how terms like “white nationalist” and “white supremacist” have become racist – comments that prompted stinging rebukes from his fellow Republicans and even a primary challenger.

Republicans blasted King, who has retweeted a message from a “Nazi sympathizer” and once said about immigration: “We can’t restore out civilization with somebody else’s babies.”

https://nypost.com/2019/01/10/steve-king-questions-why-terms-like-white-supremacist-are-racist/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 26, 2019, 07:01:33 pm
Roger Stone oughta think about shutting his gob before he digs himself even deeper in the shyte. His lawyers must be pulling their hair out. He says he won't implicate his buddy Trump in his testimony, but we'll see about that when he finds out what they have on him. He could find himself pounding rocks in the hot sun with the other Trumpsters.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 28, 2019, 12:11:30 pm
Didn't take Stone long to flip, he's already saying he will tell the truth about his communications with Trump and won't rule out cooperating with Mueller. I wonder if his lawyers told him not to put so much faith in getting a pardon.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/27/politics/roger-stone-cooperation-robert-mueller/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 28, 2019, 01:29:51 pm
Stone now says the FBI raided his house with the similar force as they used to take down Bib Laden.  I didn't see a bunch of attack helicopters in Ft. Lauderdale as I did in Afghanistan.   What hallucinogenic drugs is this guy on I wonder? They simply knocked on Stones door.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 28, 2019, 04:28:23 pm
The acting US attorney general Mathew Whitaker goes public suggesting that Mueller is close to completing his report. That action of course is somewhat inappropriate, but of course he works for Trump so what else would we expect. On the other hand I hope he is correct as I expect there will be some interesting things in that report. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 28, 2019, 07:21:21 pm
Stone now says the FBI raided his house with the similar force as they used to take down Bib Laden.  I didn't see a bunch of attack helicopters in Ft. Lauderdale as I did in Afghanistan.   What hallucinogenic drugs is this guy on I wonder? They simply knocked on Stones door.

Then why is he still alive and not dumped into the Atlantic from a helicopter?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 28, 2019, 08:37:05 pm
Then why is he still alive and not dumped into the Atlantic from a helicopter?

Anti pollution laws?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 29, 2019, 12:24:37 pm
Various intel and military leaders are rebuking Trump on his ideas on troop withdrawals from NK claiming Fat Kim is in no way moving toward de-nuking.  And then there's Mitch McConnell speaking publicly in the senate warning Trump not to pull troops from Syria and/or Afghanistan. It must be getting a little lonely in Trump world.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/01/u-s-intel-chief-disputes-trump-on-north-korea-and-isis.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on January 29, 2019, 02:19:36 pm
Various intel and military leaders are rebuking Trump on his ideas on troop withdrawals from NK

I didn't know he had any [acknowledged] troops in NK
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 29, 2019, 02:25:19 pm
I didn't know he had any [acknowledged] troops in NK

Oops, a typo on my part. Troops out of SK because Trump thinks he has such an influence over NK/Fat Kim
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 29, 2019, 04:54:05 pm
Troops out of SK 

Saskatchewan.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 29, 2019, 05:08:56 pm
Saskatchewan.

I doubt Trump could find Saskatchewan on a map so I think we're OK.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 29, 2019, 09:48:25 pm
Anybody following the Kushner?Christie battle?
More swamp stuff.

The elder Kushner hired a sex worker to seduce his brother-in-law Bill Schulder, then filmed them having sex in a motel and sent the tape to his own sister, Esther. The bizarre plot was an attempt to blackmail the Schulders into keeping their silence about Bill’s knowledge of Charles’s fraudulent activities.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/15/chris-christie-book-jared-kushner-accusations-hit-job
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 30, 2019, 05:39:55 am
Anybody following the Kushner?Christie battle?
More swamp stuff.

Sorry... I think the scandal drawer is too full for this.  Now if it was the Obama family...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 30, 2019, 01:31:06 pm
So perhaps we now have insight into where Trump gets his source of inspiration for suggesting illegal immigrants have their mouths taped shu and the women **** and on and on with his bs.
He watched a fictional movie and has tried to adapt it to reality.

A suicide bombing in a Kansas City grocery store kills fifteen people. The United States government responds by authorizing CIA agent Matt Graver to apply extreme measures to combat Mexican drug cartels who are suspected of having smuggled the terrorists across the border. Graver and the Department of Defense decide the best option is to instigate a war between the major cartels, and Graver recruits black operative Alejandro Gillick for the mission. Gillick assassinates a high-profile lawyer of the Matamoros cartel in Mexico City while Graver and his team kidnap Isabel Reyes, the daughter of the kingpin of the Matamoros' rival, in a false flag operation.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5052474/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 30, 2019, 05:22:44 pm
Trump suggests his intelligence people should go "back to school" because they suggest his idea to pull troops from areas where they actually have a clue as to what's going on within them is premature.
I suggest the words "Trump" and "intelligence" do not belong together in the same sentence.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 30, 2019, 05:58:05 pm
I guess Putin will have to set Donny straight on who to support in Venezuela.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 30, 2019, 08:48:04 pm
Well now we can end the debate as to Trump's qualifications to be POTUS. Sarah Sanders has explained how it is all gods will.

YIKES!

"I think God calls all of us to fill different roles at different times and I think that he wanted Donald Trump to become president, and that's why he's there," Sanders told CBN's David Brody and Jennifer Wishon, according to a transcript of the interview provided by CBN.
"I think he has done a tremendous job in supporting a lot of the things that people of faith really care about," Sanders added.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/30/politics/sarah-sanders-god-trump/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 31, 2019, 12:13:50 pm
Well Trump finally crawled out of his hole after hiding away for some time and gave a press briefing. Lies, lies, lies, and nothing more, once again. All in all he's just a' nuther prick in the wall.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 31, 2019, 02:36:16 pm
Well now we can end the debate as to Trump's qualifications to be POTUS. Sarah Sanders has explained how it is all gods will.

YIKES!

"I think God calls all of us to fill different roles at different times and I think that he wanted Donald Trump to become president, and that's why he's there," Sanders told CBN's David Brody and Jennifer Wishon, according to a transcript of the interview provided by CBN.
"I think he has done a tremendous job in supporting a lot of the things that people of faith really care about," Sanders added.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/30/politics/sarah-sanders-god-trump/index.html

This confirms that God certainly hates the USA.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 31, 2019, 02:50:51 pm
This confirms that God certainly hates the USA.

Which makes me a bit nervous as I live close to the border.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 31, 2019, 06:10:46 pm
Which makes me a bit nervous as I live close to the border.

Don't worry...  His lightning strikes are very precise...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 01, 2019, 09:47:46 am
Better be, I look at the border from my front window.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 01, 2019, 12:30:13 pm
Just listened to another session of oval office baffle gab.Out of one side of his mouth trump claims he is already building a "beautiful, wonderful, beautiful wall, and out the other he's planning on declaring a "national emergency" because the dems aren't co-operating with him on his wall. WTF is this guy smoking?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on February 01, 2019, 03:24:30 pm
It is troubling that technology has allowed such deepfake videos of President Trump:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws5O9WASoHg&t=6s
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on February 01, 2019, 11:07:03 pm
Whatever you think about Trump, he has two things going for him:

1. He is not politically correct.  This is an excellent trait in a leader. It has gotten to the point where we are building transgender washrooms, creating "safe spaces" for University students, and tolerating ridiculous movements like "Black Lives Matter' and listening to this garbage that the media feeds us about people like Colten Bushie being some kind of victim of "racism."

2. He is unapologetic about being White. I'm sick and tired of White Europeans being viewed as the "bad guys" of society.  Why should I feel guilty for the color of my skin? I'm not denying European colonialists have done questionable things in history, but why should we feel like bad people for being proud of our Northern European heritage? 

Additionally, I find it funny that the media and all these special interest groups are eating humble pie, for portraying Trump's supporters as a bunch of redneck hillbillies. I'm not afraid to admit that I personally enjoy going on YouTube, and viewing the meltdown of some of these bleeding heart Liberals, when Trump beat Hillary for the Presidency.  Like him or hate him, I would rather have Trump as a leader, than some flake like Justin Trudeau.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 01, 2019, 11:12:09 pm
Whatever you think about Trump, he has two things going for him:

1. He is not politically correct.  This is an excellent trait in a leader. It has gotten to the point where we are building transgender washrooms, creating "safe spaces" for University students, and tolerating ridiculous movements like "Black Lives Matter' and listening to this garbage that the media feeds us about people like Colten Bushie being some kind of victim of "racism."

2. He is unapologetic about being White. I'm sick and tired of White Europeans being viewed as the "bad guys" of society.  Why should I feel guilty for the color of my skin? I'm not denying European colonialists have done questionable things in history, but why should we feel like bad people for being proud of our Northern European heritage? 

Additionally, I find it funny that the media and all these special interest groups are eating humble pie, for portraying Trump's supporters as a bunch of redneck hillbillies. I'm not afraid to admit that I personally enjoy going on YouTube, and viewing the meltdown of some of these bleeding heart Liberals, when Trump beat Hillary for the Presidency.  Like him or hate him, I would rather have Trump as a leader, than some flake like Justin Trudeau.

So you prefer men who brag about sexually assaulting women. Donny's your man.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on February 01, 2019, 11:42:42 pm
So you prefer men who brag about sexually assaulting women.

Trump and Trudeau are both sexual predators.  Trudeau has a history of sexually assaulting women. #KokaneeGrope
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 01, 2019, 11:46:49 pm
Trump and Trudeau are both sexual predators.  Trudeau has a history of sexually assaulting women. #KokaneeGrope

Oh, so does that mean you are reconsidering your support for Trump?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on February 02, 2019, 12:41:12 am
Oh, so does that mean you are reconsidering your support for Trump?

Oh, so does that mean you are reconsidering your support for Trudeau?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 02, 2019, 12:51:37 am
Trump and Trudeau are both sexual predators.  Trudeau has a history of sexually assaulting women. #KokaneeGrope

A "history"? You must be referring to one unsubstantiated report from ~20 years ago that went nowhere. Now, have you counted up the lawsuits stacked up against Trump for sexual assault that will greet him when he gets kicked out of office. There you will find a history.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on February 02, 2019, 12:59:29 am
A "history"? You must be referring to one unsubstantiated report from ~20 years ago that went nowhere. Now, have you counted up the lawsuits stacked up against Trump for sexual assault that will greet him when he gets kicked out of office. There you will find a history.

You just cannot admit that Justin Trudeau has a history of groping women.  He hides behind his manufactured image of being some sort of "champion" of Women. Jian Ghomeshi got away with it for nearly 25 years. Why would Trudeau, who happens to be richer and more powerful than Ghomeshi be any different.. 

At least Trump is not a hypocrite.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 02, 2019, 03:42:17 am
1. He is not politically correct.
Yes this is refreshing but Trump is such a vile person that he poisons any opinion associated with him.

2. He is unapologetic about being White. I'm sick and tired of White Europeans being viewed as the "bad guys" of society.
Except Trump is clearly and unequivocally a "bad guy" which means he re-enforces the stereotype rather than tearing it down.

I originally was hopeful that Trump would expand the Overton window and put an end to the monopoly that rabid SJWs had on public discourse but the flaws in the man have completely negated any good he might have done.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 02, 2019, 05:18:00 am
... a history of groping women.

waldo acknowledges: your Trumpian deflection attempt... to attempt to distract away from the substantiated cases of Trump's sexual "dalliances"!

uhhh... is your history based on anything other than a multi-decades old unsubstantiated allegation?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 02, 2019, 06:06:01 am
Oh, so does that mean you are reconsidering your support for Trudeau?

Yes.  Now, you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on February 02, 2019, 06:56:16 am
waldo acknowledges: your Trumpian deflection attempt... to attempt to distract away from the substantiated cases of Trump's sexual "dalliances"!

uhhh... is your history based on anything other than a multi-decades old unsubstantiated allegation?
This incident has so many parallels to the Jian Ghomeshi affair, it is deeply concerning.  Both cases involve respected media figures, credible victims, and a public broadcaster who was all but more than happy to look the other way, since reporting on their case would hurt their bottom line (Q was a top rated show and the Trudeau Government wants to increase funding for the CBC).

https://globalnews.ca/news/4309277/justin-trudeau-reporter-grope/

https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/justin-trudeaus-reported-kokanee-grope-matters-but-not-for-the-obvious-reason/

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/why-an-18-year-old-groping-allegation-against-justin-trudeau-is-not-a-metoo-moment

None of this behavior excuses Trump for his misogamy. However, considering only one in ten women report sexual assault, I wonder how many other victims of Trudeau have not come forward.  Trudeau has the Canadian media in his back pocket, so the CBC will never make a big deal out of it, except one minor article. This is of concern for all Canadians.  If Trudeau "can't remember" something he admitted to nearly 20 years ago, one wonder what else Trudeau has done in his past, that he "cannot remember."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on February 02, 2019, 07:04:26 am
Yes this is refreshing but Trump is such a vile person that he poisons any opinion associated with him.
Except Trump is clearly and unequivocally a "bad guy" which means he re-enforces the stereotype rather than tearing it down.

I originally was hopeful that Trump would expand the Overton window and put an end to the monopoly that rabid SJWs had on public discourse but the flaws in the man have completely negated any good he might have done.

Sorry, perhaps I should have been more clear.  I was referencing what occurred at the time of the 2016 US Election, and how politically correct SJW's are partially responsible for the backlash that saw Trump upset Clinton to become President.  I'm no fan of Trump, but at least he took a stand, and fought for the forgotten man- working class White Americans, especially when the media was portraying his supporters as being a bunch of uneducated rednecks.

Trump's election win is a warning in the harm of pushing the agenda of special interest groups too far.  In Canada, there is no reason to believe we will not see the same political backlash in the future. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 02, 2019, 12:08:11 pm
Sorry, perhaps I should have been more clear.  I was referencing what occurred at the time of the 2016 US Election, and how politically correct SJW's are partially responsible for the backlash that saw Trump upset Clinton to become President.  I'm no fan of Trump, but at least he took a stand, and fought for the forgotten man- working class White Americans, especially when the media was portraying his supporters as being a bunch of uneducated rednecks.

Trump's election win is a warning in the harm of pushing the agenda of special interest groups too far.  In Canada, there is no reason to believe we will not see the same political backlash in the future.

Your so called "forgotten man working class White Americans" aren't making a nickel more under Trump's "guidance", but he has certainly made CEO's a hello f a lot richer with his corp. tax cuts, not to mention adding a couple trillion to the debt that's on the backs of those working class.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on February 02, 2019, 12:29:55 pm
Your so called "forgotten man working class White Americans" aren't making a nickel more under Trump's "guidance", but he has certainly made CEO's a hello f a lot richer with his corp. tax cuts, not to mention adding a couple trillion to the debt that's on the backs of those working class.

I agree with you. However, Trump ran his campaign this way, while Hillary spent all her time appealing to special interests groups. This is precisely the treason Trump is president.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 02, 2019, 12:46:51 pm
I agree with you. However, Trump ran his campaign this way, while Hillary spent all her time appealing to special interests groups. This is precisely the treason Trump is president.

no - Trump is U.S. President because of Russian (targeted) influences. Trump lost the popular vote to Clinton by ~3 million votes... but secured (antiquated) electoral college numbers as a result of, wait for it..... just 70,000 votes across 3 states.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 02, 2019, 12:51:38 pm
... one wonder what else Trudeau has done in his past

whaaa! Good to read you clarify your "history" remains at one... one... unsubstantiated allegation.  ;D

waldo tip: your personal wonderment is not a replacement/substitute for historical substantiated evidence/fact
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 04, 2019, 02:52:03 pm
Just came across this one. Trump remakes the map and announces Nepal and Bhutan are now part of India. And just to top things of, he pronounces these place names as "Nipple and Button" I imagine a lot of his base don't own an atlas so he's still OK with them.

Early last year, President Donald Trump claimed that one of his two greatest assets is "being, like, really smart." Despite Trump's claim, some intelligence officials have reportedly said the president actually displays a "willful ignorance" during intelligence briefings. In fact, intelligence and congressional officials have told Time magazine that Trump thought Nepal and Bhutan were part of India.

https://www.bustle.com/p/trump-reportedly-thought-nepal-bhutan-were-part-of-india-during-intelligence-briefing-15921219
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 04, 2019, 11:50:00 pm
So Trump decided he had to fire 18 or so of his undocumented workers I guess in case someone might yell "hypocrite" at him. Ah no matter Donny, you can hire new ones when the next "caravan" hits the border, and the news headlines have moved on.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/04/politics/trump-organization-undocumented-worker-purge/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 05, 2019, 06:11:00 am
  two greatest assets is "being, like, really smart." 

Ignorance is separate from intelligence, but also related.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on February 05, 2019, 09:25:25 am
no - Trump is U.S. President because of Russian (targeted) influences. Trump lost the popular vote to Clinton by ~3 million votes... but secured (antiquated) electoral college numbers as a result of, wait for it..... just 70,000 votes across 3 states.

I do not doubt Russia had some influence but I think the manipulation of working class Americans (not just white working class Americans) using Hitlerian-Goebels fear mongering and scapegoating was the key. The key phrase "America first" was classic jingoism, chauvinism, divisionism, national-socialism (I am for the working man). It made people insecure about themselves and being unemployed suddenly feel mighty. Its classic Goebels propaganda. Remember Obama spent 8 years sending out a message of apologizing for America being strong. Trump simply  picked up on the collective psyche of the US rejecting that message and reversed it and tapped back into the American collective psyche that wants to be strong  and BRAG about being strong. The American collective psyche is based on military might and pride. Reject that psyche as Obama did, you will create a backlash and jingoist to react to and replace the Obama message of self loathing for having macho American tendencies.

Interestingly though for a guy who tries so hard to role play being John Wayne, like John Wayne, Trump is actually quite effeminate reflecting the confusion in American identity these days. Its not just in  the US. Across the Western world male politicians now manifest highly effeminate traits and the woman politicians reflect highly masculine traits. Merkel is the most masculine of Western leaders at this point. Quite frankly Trump, and the Chinese President, look like aging lesbians. As for Putin he walks like a drag queen on parade. His macho walk is so affected he looks like Rue Paul. Excuse my Freudian analysis

However I am not sure  Russian interference had that much affect. I think what you saw were two phenomena, a rejection of the Obama  and  Hilary Clinton message. Clinton came across as what she was, a cold, uncaring, sterile, crooked, insincere, unhealthy, sexual pervert. No image maker could fix that. Trump is in office thanks to Clinton and Obama. He literally was an accidental candidate because of Democrats choosing the worst candidate possible and Republics unable to find a leader. The candidates the Republicans ran like the Democrats reflect a shortage or absence of any meaningful leadership in the US. Since Nixon, no one with any strong sense of moral vision wants to be President. They see the office as necessarily a form of ****. No one wants what it brings, i.e., political herpes.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 05, 2019, 09:36:00 am
Ignorance is separate from intelligence, but also related.

Seems Ignoramce and Intelligence don’t get along on Pennsylvania Ave these days.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2019, 11:20:02 am
I do not doubt Russia had some influence but I think the manipulation of working class Americans (not just white working class Americans) using Hitlerian-Goebels fear mongering and scapegoating was the key. The key phrase "America first" was classic jingoism, chauvinism, divisionism, national-socialism (I am for the working man). It made people insecure about themselves and being unemployed suddenly feel mighty. Its classic Goebels propaganda. Remember Obama spent 8 years sending out a message of apologizing for America being strong. Trump simply  picked up on the collective psyche of the US rejecting that message and reversed it and tapped back into the American collective psyche that wants to be strong  and BRAG about being strong. The American collective psyche is based on military might and pride. Reject that psyche as Obama did, you will create a backlash and jingoist to react to and replace the Obama message of self loathing for having macho American tendencies.

Interestingly though for a guy who tries so hard to role play being John Wayne, like John Wayne, Trump is actually quite effeminate reflecting the confusion in American identity these days. Its not just in  the US. Across the Western world male politicians now manifest highly effeminate traits and the woman politicians reflect highly masculine traits. Merkel is the most masculine of Western leaders at this point. Quite frankly Trump, and the Chinese President, look like aging lesbians. As for Putin he walks like a drag queen on parade. His macho walk is so affected he looks like Rue Paul. Excuse my Freudian analysis

However I am not sure  Russian interference had that much affect. I think what you saw were two phenomena, a rejection of the Obama  and  Hilary Clinton message. Clinton came across as what she was, a cold, uncaring, sterile, crooked, insincere, unhealthy, sexual pervert. No image maker could fix that. Trump is in office thanks to Clinton and Obama. He literally was an accidental candidate because of Democrats choosing the worst candidate possible and Republics unable to find a leader. The candidates the Republicans ran like the Democrats reflect a shortage or absence of any meaningful leadership in the US. Since Nixon, no one with any strong sense of moral vision wants to be President. They see the office as necessarily a form of ****. No one wants what it brings, i.e., political herpes.

Trump is in office because of the biased, gerrymandered and totally outdated EC system, not because of the will of the people.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2019, 11:55:23 am
Seems Ignoramce and Intelligence don’t get along on Pennsylvania Ave these days.

I'm wondering which of those characteristics leads to incessant, blatant lying. Nixon was much more intelligent than the current POTUS, but he lied enough to get shown the exit door from the WH. Trump sits at the same desk and drones on and if you are counting the lies you run out of fingers and toes in about 10 minutes. (let's see, that's an average of 2/minute if my math is right) and still seems to have full support from his base. Perhaps that where ignorance can support fallacies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2019, 02:48:28 pm
Got your popcorn ready for the SOTU later on today? I wonder if he'll go off script to try to fend off the latest requests from federal prosecutors to question execs. associated with Trump.org. I suspect his handlers will have warned him, but you never know.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on February 05, 2019, 02:50:27 pm
Got your popcorn ready for the SOTU later on today?

Make sure to eat it before things start, so you will have an empty bucket available.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2019, 02:58:55 pm
Make sure to eat it before things start, so you will have an empty bucket available.

The guest list looks interesting.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/05/politics/2020-democrats-state-of-the-union-guests/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 05, 2019, 03:32:02 pm
Quote
California Sen. Kamala Harris is bringing a woman who lost her home in a wildfire.

Did Trump light the fire?  Did she have house insurance?  Why not? 

I'm not a fan of the staged political faux outrage nonsense.  It should be beneath the office of these senators, and president.  Cheap political stunts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2019, 03:38:47 pm
Did Trump light the fire?  Did she have house insurance?  Why not? 

I'm not a fan of the staged political faux outrage nonsense.  It should be beneath the office of these senators, and president.  Cheap political stunts.

It's a reference to the fact that Trump ignores science, in this case specifically the evidence of global warming.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on February 05, 2019, 03:48:30 pm
Did Trump light the fire?  Did she have house insurance?  Why not? 

Trump cut funding to the forest service, and threatened to cut funding for wildfire relief, etc. Yes, she should be there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 05, 2019, 04:24:35 pm
It's a reference to the fact that Trump ignores science, in this case specifically the evidence of global warming.
Except someone's house burning down has little to do with global warming. The endless attempts by alarmists to link every bad event to climate change *is* nonsense scientifically and better described as astrology. People who use such nonsense have no business claiming they care about science. They are dishonest propagandists who are no better than Trump
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2019, 04:29:43 pm
Except someone's house burning down has little to do with global warming. The endless attempts by alarmists to link every bad event to climate change *is* nonsense scientifically and better described as astrology. People who use such nonsense have no business claiming they care about science. They are dishonest propagandists who are no better than Trump

Maybe go study a bit at what ~97% of actual environmental scientists have to say on the issue. And oh BTW, astrology doesn't start wildfires, but one lightning strike into a forest that hasn't seen much rain in years will.

PS: be careful about believing what Donald Trump tries to convince you of.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 05, 2019, 04:41:54 pm
Except someone's house burning down has little to do with global warming. The endless attempts by alarmists to link every bad event to climate change *is* nonsense scientifically and better described as astrology. People who use such nonsense have no business claiming they care about science. They are dishonest propagandists who are no better than Trump

No TimG...   you don't get to challenge the actual science and call it astrology without a shred of evidence. 

Quote
Research shows that changes in climate, especially earlier snowmelt due to warming in the spring and summer, have led to hot, dry conditions that boost this increase in fire activity in some areas. For much of the U.S. West, projections show that an average annual 1 degree Celsius temperature increase would increase the median burned area per year as much as 600 percent in some types of forests.

https://www.c2es.org/content/wildfires-and-climate-change/

You claim to believe science...   but when it doesn't suit your preconceived narrative, then suddenly science = astrology.   It's a dishonest tactic. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 05, 2019, 04:43:57 pm
Trump cut funding to the forest service, and threatened to cut funding for wildfire relief, etc. Yes, she should be there.
It's a reference to the fact that Trump ignores science, in this case specifically the evidence of global warming.

I know both of these things...  it's still a cheap political stunt. 

No different than the the president bringing a victim of crime by an illegal immigrant.   All the same crap.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 05, 2019, 05:35:45 pm
You claim to believe science...   but when it doesn't suit your preconceived narrative, then suddenly science = astrology.   It's a dishonest tactic.
No it isn't. Because I am willing to dive into the details of statistics and correlation and explain exactly why some so-called "science" is junk and other science is reliable. All you do is lecture people who are not willing to mindlessly accept every claim that supports your ideology.

More importantly: my opinions are derived from my understanding of the science and its *limitations*. If the science was actually as certain as you claim I would change my opinions accordingly. But it isn't. You should try looking in a mirror when you point fingers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 05, 2019, 06:30:01 pm
However I am not sure Russian interference had that much affect.

outside the complement of Americans that don't just automatically vote Republican, certainly, as you state, Clinton was least preferred by many so-called independents... notwithstanding she still carried the popular vote by almost 3 million over Trump. What's clear in latest polling is Trump has retained (most of) his Republican base but lost significant numbers of declared independents. The 2016 Russian influence was aimed at: enhancing division outright, targeted anti-Clinton messaging, targeted pro-3rd party alternative messaging. The Mueller investigation has been building towards outlining the Russian messaging conspiracy and which Americans/what companies had involvement in helping provide data/voter lists/etc., to help Russians more pointedly target.

this following vote summary graphic shows the ~77K vote disparity across the 3 U.S. states that allowed Trump to carry the electoral college votes required... the basis of Trump's typical bombastic "huuuge win... all time hugeeeest win"!

The "Others" category reflects principally upon votes for either Libertarian Gary Johnson or Green Party leader Jill Stein... vote tally numbers for the 3rd party candidates significantly greater than the ultimate margins of difference between Trump & Clinton. The other graphic is the now infamous dinner party where Stein sat (with Mike Flynn) and Putin's table. Of course, the many times Stein appeared on the Kremlin backed RT media/outlet is equally telling.

(https://i.imgur.com/TfsSPPG.png) (https://i.imgur.com/R7r6Y3N.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 05, 2019, 06:36:44 pm
Because I am willing to dive into the details of statistics and correlation and explain exactly why some so-called "science" is junk and other science is reliable.

does global warming exacerbate impacting conditions and raise the risk of wildfires - yes or no?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 05, 2019, 07:09:17 pm
Did Trump light the fire?  Did she have house insurance?  Why not? 

I'm not a fan of the staged political faux outrage nonsense.  It should be beneath the office of these senators, and president.  Cheap political stunts.

I don't know about the political stuff but the fires were a huge tragedy in California. When we were coming down the I5 near Shasta, huge areas were burnt both sides of the highway. When we were staying in Redding, we were next to a couple with a brand new 5th wheel and truck. They lost everything in the Paradise fire except the clothes on their backs and their dog, the insurance company gave them a bunch of money so they bought a RV and truck and had no idea where they were going or were going to live. Their first RV and they were clueless so they had all kinds of questions.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 05, 2019, 07:38:17 pm
does global warming exacerbate impacting conditions and raise the risk of wildfires - yes or no?
Red herring. The answer to your question means nothing and is an attempt at propaganda. A meaningful question is "Does the *human component* of global warming have a *significant* effect on the risk of wildfires when compared to all of the other factors that also affect the risk of wildfires?"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 05, 2019, 08:36:40 pm
does global warming exacerbate impacting conditions and raise the risk of wildfires - yes or no?
Red herring. The answer to your question means nothing and is an attempt at propaganda. A meaningful question is "Does the *human component* of global warming have a *significant* effect on the risk of wildfires when compared to all of the other factors that also affect the risk of wildfires?"

no - I provided you a straight-forward question; one you, apparently, refuse to answer... opting instead to drop a weasel-worded alternate question where you don't qualify/quantify:
- human component,
- significant
- other factors

since you refuse to accept anthropogenic sourced CO2 is the principal causal tie to GW/CC, as before, as always, please provide your understood/interpreted alternate principal causal tie to GW/CC... alternate other than anthropogenic sourced CO2. As before, as always... waiting, waiting, waiting............
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 05, 2019, 08:59:03 pm
no - I provided you a straight-forward question;
You asked an irrelevant question. I could ask you what colour is the carpet in your room is and it would be as relevant as the question you asked.

to drop a weasel-worded alternate question where you don't qualify/quantify:
That is the point. The problem *is* very complicated and any attempt to make it seem simple is a deliberate deception. It certainly is not science.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2019, 09:13:38 pm
You asked an irrelevant question. I could ask you what colour is the carpet in your room is and it would be as relevant as the question you asked.
That is the point. The problem *is* very complicated and any attempt to make it seem simple is a deliberate deception. It certainly is not science.

Unfortunately for you the science disagrees with your whim.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2019, 09:41:43 pm
Trump's SOTU speech seemed to be not much more than 90 minutes of a contradicting hodge podge. And oops, his hair piece is out of place showing he is bald. Poor Donny.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 05, 2019, 09:48:34 pm
Unfortunately for you the science disagrees with your whim.
You are not remotely qualified to make such as statement. Every peer reviewed paper is full of the limitations and caveats similar to what I stated. Oversimplifying complex problems to create a political narrative is called propaganda. That is what all alarmists like you engage in. It has nothing to do with science.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2019, 09:58:05 pm
You are not remotely qualified to make such as statement. Every peer reviewed paper is full of the limitations and caveats similar to what I stated. Oversimplifying complex problems to create a political narrative is called propaganda. That is what all alarmists like you engage in. It has nothing to do with science.

Your attempt to deny the majority of scientific results on this issue to try and make it political falls face first. Scientists are paid to be scientists, not to try and come up with "results" that favor Exxon. Otherwise they could probably get paiid much better.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 05, 2019, 10:39:11 pm
Well in his speech Donny managed to unite the country for all of 5 minutes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 05, 2019, 11:20:53 pm
You asked an irrelevant question. I could ask you what colour is the carpet in your room is and it would be as relevant as the question you asked.

That is the point. The problem *is* very complicated and any attempt to make it seem simple is a deliberate deception. It certainly is not science.

you were asked: "does global warming exacerbate impacting conditions and raise the risk of wildfires - yes or no?"... a most innocuous question requiring a simple requested yes or no answer. The question didn't even speak to warming causation or qualify a degree of exacerbate/risk, yet your denying-self won't even allow you to accept and respond that warming has an impact upon the risk and spread of wildfires. 

I expect you align with Trump's astute scientific analysis, hey: blame the victims/forest management!

(https://i.imgur.com/PATkNAK.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 05, 2019, 11:48:56 pm
Didn't watch, not a big enough masochist to inflict 90 minutes of Trump on myself.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on February 06, 2019, 01:04:49 am
In reply to Waldo (I, JMT, **** this post by accident)

As I said before, your question is an attempt at propaganda that has nothing to do with science. If you want to talk science you have to ask a question like what I asked which takes into account the complexities of the real world. Any peer reviewed paper will be full of discussions the caveats and limitations that affect the claims which cannot be ignored if you want to make a claim about what the science says. If you don't understand this then you know nothing about how science works and you have no business lecturing others about science.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 06, 2019, 08:17:16 am
As I said before, your question is an attempt at propaganda that has nothing to do with science.

does your preferred science recognize correlation between fuel (vegetation) aridity and the significant most recent decadal increases in the areas of wildfires? Do you subscribe to the Trumpian solution that calls for an army of "forest rakers" to quash the extent/risk of forest fires?

(https://i.imgur.com/aZhD6Ko.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 06, 2019, 11:22:47 am
does your preferred science recognize correlation between fuel (vegetation) aridity and the significant most recent decadal increases in the areas of wildfires? Do you subscribe to the Trumpian solution that calls for an army of "forest rakers" to quash the extent/risk of forest fires?

(https://i.imgur.com/aZhD6Ko.jpg)

Perhaps "science degrees" from Trump U?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 07, 2019, 04:36:45 pm
So Trumps acting AG Whittaker plans to ignore a subpoena if one is issued with regard to his appearance in front of a committee hearing tomorrow. This could get interesting. And of course Trump is fuming once again over the myriad of investigations that are being prepared into his background. Must be noisy in the West Wing once more.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 07, 2019, 08:06:31 pm
So this Bezos thing is big... But is it a Trump story?

AMI voided their non prosecution deal with Mueller by engaging in a felony. 

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 07, 2019, 09:16:27 pm
So this Bezos thing is big... But is it a Trump story?

AMI voided their non prosecution deal with Mueller by engaging in a felony.

It is the National Inquirer after all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 07, 2019, 09:34:40 pm
And of course his Pecker connection to the murderer Saudi Crown Prince.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 08, 2019, 01:47:50 pm
Well as I listen to the current house judiciary committee discussion I would say that Matt Whittaker seems as adept at delivering loquacious claptrap as is his boss, but I wouldn't hire him to handle a parking ticket.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 10, 2019, 03:04:45 pm
Anybody laying odds on whethe or not Trump shuts the government down again next Friday?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on February 10, 2019, 03:41:44 pm
Anybody laying odds on whethe or not Trump shuts the government down again next Friday?

Trump couldn't be that stupid...

...So yes, the government will be shut down.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 10, 2019, 03:43:42 pm
Trump couldn't be that stupid...

...So yes, the government will be shut down.

Troubling as it is, I follow your logic.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 11, 2019, 02:54:57 pm
So now Trump in his little tweety world has taken to moicking what was essentially a genocide of native Americans. "The Trail of Tears" And of course his **** son is joining right in. When did Americans become so fat and stupid as to put these type of scumbags in their highest office?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on February 11, 2019, 03:01:00 pm
So now Trump in his little tweety world has taken to moicking what was essentially a genocide of native Americans. "The Trail of Tears" And of course his **** son is joining right in. When did Americans become so fat and stupid as to put these type of scumbags in their highest office?

After social media was a thing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 11, 2019, 03:03:12 pm
After social media was a thing.

Scary concept but you might be right.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 11, 2019, 04:21:50 pm
I wonder if Trump will continue to lie about crime rates vs wall construction in El Paso when he is actually in El Paso soon. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 11, 2019, 09:18:18 pm
Well as I expected, Trump is being his normal stupid buffoon, lying virtually every time he opens his mouth, and again making a complete and utter **** of himself. Where is Lee Harvey Oswald when you really need him?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 12, 2019, 05:36:12 am
I hear no shutdown.  So will Trump somehow try to declare this a victory or refuse to sign ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 12, 2019, 02:03:28 pm
I hear no shutdown.  So will Trump somehow try to declare this a victory or refuse to sign ?

Good question, but any answer to it you get from Trump I wouldn't take to the bank, as it will likely change in a couple of hours or so. He won't be at all happy about the fact the current offer from congress is even less than the previous one, and a long way off what he wants. I just heard him speaking saying he is already building a "big, beautiful, lovely, great, etc., etc. etc., wall". And then in the next breath says he could declare a national emergency to try and get his way. If you look up "loose cannon" in your Funk and Wagnells you should see a picture of Trump. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 12, 2019, 02:54:37 pm
Trump got 1.4 billion for his wall, instead of the 5.7 billion he wanted.  So now, if he signs the bill, he can build about 50 miles of the wall to add onto the other already existing barriers, instead of finishing it.

Trump is a savage negotiator.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 12, 2019, 03:09:20 pm
Trump got 1.4 billion for his wall, instead of the 5.7 billion he wanted.  So now, if he signs the bill, he can build about 50 miles of the wall to add onto the other already existing barriers, instead of finishing it.

Trump is a savage negotiator.

Congress decided to punish him for his shut down.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 12, 2019, 05:04:14 pm
Congress decided to punish him for his shut down.

They didn't want to give him any money for his wall.  Looks like a compromise to me, looks like his tantrum worked at least partially.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 12, 2019, 05:11:03 pm
They didn't want to give him any money for his wall.  Looks like a compromise to me, looks like his tantrum worked at least partially.

Except they had previously offered him more "wall" money than what they have offered this time around. His tantrum cost him money as well as poll numbers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 12, 2019, 05:15:35 pm
Ya his popularity has dropped a bit the last few months:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 12, 2019, 05:27:01 pm
outside the complement of Americans that don't just automatically vote Republican, certainly, as you state, Clinton was least preferred by many so-called independents... notwithstanding she still carried the popular vote by almost 3 million over Trump. What's clear in latest polling is Trump has retained (most of) his Republican base but lost significant numbers of declared independents. The 2016 Russian influence was aimed at: enhancing division outright, targeted anti-Clinton messaging, targeted pro-3rd party alternative messaging. The Mueller investigation has been building towards outlining the Russian messaging conspiracy and which Americans/what companies had involvement in helping provide data/voter lists/etc., to help Russians more pointedly target.

this following vote summary graphic shows the ~77K vote disparity across the 3 U.S. states that allowed Trump to carry the electoral college votes required... the basis of Trump's typical bombastic "huuuge win... all time hugeeeest win"!

The "Others" category reflects principally upon votes for either Libertarian Gary Johnson or Green Party leader Jill Stein... vote tally numbers for the 3rd party candidates significantly greater than the ultimate margins of difference between Trump & Clinton. The other graphic is the now infamous dinner party where Stein sat (with Mike Flynn) and Putin's table. Of course, the many times Stein appeared on the Kremlin backed RT media/outlet is equally telling.

(https://i.imgur.com/TfsSPPG.png) (https://i.imgur.com/R7r6Y3N.jpg)

further to the earlier discussion on the 'how Trump won' theme, can't forget the mega-media influence... all the free media that Trump received!

(https://i.imgur.com/EsBxk99.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 12, 2019, 05:27:51 pm
Ya his popularity has dropped a bit the last few months:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

He seems to be hinting there won't be another shut down which I'm sure is good news for most Americans. He probably has been told another one would wollup his ratings even more.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 13, 2019, 07:57:47 am
(https://i.imgur.com/uSJ8fR2.png)

outreaching waldo
: member Pinus, as much as the waldo relishes your automatic 'dumb' tag assignments, the waldo thinks you have more to offer and encourages you to extend yourself. How is it you feel the mega free-lunch coverage media gave to Trump isn't a consideration in, 'how Trump won'? Why is that, as you designate, "dumb"?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on February 13, 2019, 10:34:55 am
How Trump won?

Dems that came out for Obama, especially in states that Hillary took for granted, stayed home.

The "Free" Media Trump got was rarely a compelling reason to vote for him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 13, 2019, 11:57:03 am
How Trump won?

Dems that came out for Obama, especially in states that Hillary took for granted, stayed home.

The "Free" Media Trump got was rarely a compelling reason to vote for him.

~3 million more voters for Hillary didn't stay home. Can you say "gerrymandered electoral college\'?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on February 13, 2019, 02:02:08 pm
~3 million more voters for Hillary didn't stay home. Can you say "gerrymandered electoral college\'?

I'd have to see the breakdown. But I'm sure a lot came from overwhelmingly blue states.

If Romney got more votes than Trump and Trump won then it says something about Hillary's performance.

Gerrymandering doesn't help in a Presidential election. Either the state goes for a candidate or it doesn't, the districts are irrelevant. Trump won because he took home 3 or 4 critical midwest states that the Dems assumed they had in the bag.

A presidential election has the same FPTP problem we have in Canada. Individual races decide the overall result and not the popular vote. And I'm not even exactly sure that's a problem. Hillary was a bad candidate for large swaths of the country. Dems have to concede that or they're doomed to repeat it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 13, 2019, 02:09:13 pm
Ted Cruz is now suggesting that El Chapo resources should be used to erect Trumps wall. I wonder if that was tongue in cheek and if Donny will buy into it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 13, 2019, 02:14:07 pm
I'd have to see the breakdown. But I'm sure a lot came from overwhelmingly blue states.

If Romney got more votes than Trump and Trump won then it says something about Hillary's performance.

Gerrymandering doesn't help in a Presidential election. Either the state goes for a candidate or it doesn't, the districts are irrelevant. Trump won because he took home 3 or 4 critical midwest states that the Dems assumed they had in the bag.

A presidential election has the same FPTP problem we have in Canada. Individual races decide the overall result and not the popular vote. And I'm not even exactly sure that's a problem. Hillary was a bad candidate for large swaths of the country. Dems have to concede that or they're doomed to repeat it.

Gerrymandering certainly does affect elections. When you can redraw the lines around electoral districts, such as the republicans were able to do back in 2010, for one example, you can thwart the will of the people as Trump did clearly in 2016.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on February 13, 2019, 02:24:08 pm
Gerrymandering certainly does affect elections. When you can redraw the lines around electoral districts, such as the republicans were able to do back in 2010, for one example, you can thwart the will of the people as Trump did clearly in 2016.

Sure in election where the districts are constantly changing. But in a Presidential Election you get Electoral Votes in a Winner Take all format based on how many seats a state has, not how its districts are drawn.

Now if the President was elected based on the way the district that represents each EC Vote voted then yeah Gerrymandering would effect that, but it's currently winner take all for each state.

The Dems luckily won the house in 2018 inspite of gerrymandering. Also they put more emphasis in winning more seats and governors at the state level.

The US has an awful system where state governments can draw the districts. Canada has a much better system where an arms length organization draws the districts as best as they can.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 13, 2019, 02:30:50 pm
Sure in election where the districts are constantly changing. But in a Presidential Election you get Electoral Votes in a Winner Take all format based on how many seats a state has, not how its districts are drawn.

Now if the President was elected based on the way the district that represents each EC Vote voted then yeah Gerrymandering would effect that, but it's currently winner take all for each state.

The Dems luckily won the house in 2018 inspite of gerrymandering. Also they put more emphasis in winning more seats and governors at the state level.

The US has an awful system where state governments can draw the districts. Canada has a much better system where an arms length organization draws the districts as best as they can.

How districts are "drawn" is exactly what gerrymandering is all about.

In fact, in a week in which the supreme court said it would examine whether gerrrymandering violates the constitution, a new analysis of boundary lines drawn before the race shows the Republicans had a real advantage in state and national contests.

The AP scrutinized the outcomes of all 435 US House races and about 4,700 state House and Assembly seats up for election last year, using a new statistical method of calculating partisan advantage designed to detect cases in which one party may have won, widened or retained its grip on power through political gerrymandering.

The analysis found four times as many states with Republican-skewed state House or Assembly districts than Democratic ones. Among the two dozen most-populated states that determine the vast majority of Congress, there were nearly three times as many with Republican-tilted US House districts.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/25/partisan-gerrymandering-republicans-2016-report
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on February 13, 2019, 03:19:55 pm
You're not getting what I'm saying. It's irrelevant how the districts are drawn in a Presidential Election. You win the state, you win all the EC votes from that state.

And EC votes are purely based on the population of that state. Alaska can't equal California like it does in the US Senate. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 13, 2019, 03:23:03 pm
You're not getting what I'm saying. It's irrelevant how the districts are drawn in a Presidential Election. You win the state, you win all the EC votes from that state.

And EC votes are purely based on the population of that state. Alaska can't equal California like it does in the US Senate.

Think about population density and data that shows how to draw district borders so you win the state. The GOP are experts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on February 13, 2019, 04:20:31 pm
You're not getting what I'm saying. It's irrelevant how the districts are drawn in a Presidential Election. You win the state, you win all the EC votes from that state.

Ever been to Nebraska or Maine?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 13, 2019, 05:51:07 pm
Think about population density and data that shows how to draw district borders so you win the state. The GOP are experts.

Boges is right. Most states are winner take all, the candidate who gets the most votes in that state gets all of its electoral votes. The only borders that count are the state borders.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 13, 2019, 06:45:58 pm
outside the complement of Americans that don't just automatically vote Republican, certainly, as you state, Clinton was least preferred by many so-called independents... notwithstanding she still carried the popular vote by almost 3 million over Trump. What's clear in latest polling is Trump has retained (most of) his Republican base but lost significant numbers of declared independents. The 2016 Russian influence was aimed at: enhancing division outright, targeted anti-Clinton messaging, targeted pro-3rd party alternative messaging. The Mueller investigation has been building towards outlining the Russian messaging conspiracy and which Americans/what companies had involvement in helping provide data/voter lists/etc., to help Russians more pointedly target.

this following vote summary graphic shows the ~77K vote disparity across the 3 U.S. states that allowed Trump to carry the electoral college votes required... the basis of Trump's typical bombastic "huuuge win... all time hugeeeest win"!
....
(https://i.imgur.com/TfsSPPG.png) (https://i.imgur.com/R7r6Y3N.jpg)

Fair enough.  But even if Clinton won any 2 of those 3 states, Trump still would have won.  It's really hard to say how much influence Russia had.  It's a grand claim for anyone to say she would have won all 3 of those states without Russian influence.

As for the free media coverage Trump had, that's to his own credit.  He's a brilliant self-marketer and has been since day 1 decades ago.  The corporate MSM news covered him so much because he purposely said outrageous and controversial things, which the corporate news gladly wanted to cover because it gave them ratings, and ad-dollars by extension.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 14, 2019, 12:53:14 am
Just when it seemed Trump was getting pretty much nothing accomplished, it turns out he has actually set a record. Most golfballs ever hit by a POTUS in history. So you see he actually has been busy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 14, 2019, 11:14:14 am
The "Free" Media Trump got was rarely a compelling reason to vote for him.

duh! That free exposure/advertising helped to slice&dice the Republican candidate pool down to elTrumpo..... then... the media fixated on Trump's campaign hysteria, covering each and every one of his idiotic rally's. And, of course, refusing to actually discuss and engage over actual policy; instead, focusing to the nth-degree on, "the emails, the emails"! You know, in the name of so-called "balance"!

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 14, 2019, 11:27:45 am
Fair enough.  But even if Clinton won any 2 of those 3 states, Trump still would have won.  It's really hard to say how much influence Russia had.  It's a grand claim for anyone to say she would have won all 3 of those states without Russian influence.

~77 thousand votes across those 3 states was the difference. Note the 'Others' category was principally votes for either Green Stein or Libertarian Johnson - both are said to have received significant positive messaging from the 'Russian influence'. The voting numbers within those 3 states 'Others' category significantly outweigh the final vote margins.

the Mueller investigation has included specifics that speak to the 'Trump campaign' delivery of voting data to 'Russian intermediaries'. Tightening the screws on just who/what was involved is in the Mueller-mix. The best has yet to be revealed!

As for the free media coverage Trump had, that's to his own credit.  He's a brilliant self-marketer and has been since day 1 decades ago.  The corporate MSM news covered him so much because he purposely said outrageous and controversial things, which the corporate news gladly wanted to cover because it gave them ratings, and ad-dollars by extension.

of course - ratings/ad monies; of course! Are you suggesting this had no influence in American minds, particularly the easily molded/swayed - those who can't be bothered to actually look at policy? Notwithstanding the purposeful target messaging directed by 'Russian influence'...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 14, 2019, 11:44:20 pm
I'm waiting to see what happens if and when Faux news turns on Trump. There seems to be evidence of that happening leading up to him signing the deal without the wall.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 15, 2019, 05:29:12 am
I'm afraid of what that would lead to.  Invading Venezuela ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 15, 2019, 12:19:59 pm
I see Trump has as expected, waded even deeper into the **** by declaring a national "emergency" to steal money for his **** wall. There is doubt as to the legality of what he is doing and even he expects to get his ass sued off for his actions. Congress is supposed to control the purse and now Trump's plan is to steal appropriated funds from such entities as the US military. There is no "emergency" and I can image the imagery is not lost on those who actually are, or have served in the military as "Mr. Bonespurs" robs their bank, over essentially what amounts to nothing more than another childish temper tantrum by the so called Commander in Chief.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on February 15, 2019, 02:06:42 pm
If the other place wasn't shut down temporarily I'd sends thoughts and prayers to BC2004 for being in a country living through such an emergency.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 15, 2019, 02:19:35 pm
If the other place wasn't shut down temporarily I'd sends thoughts and prayers to BC2004 for being in a country living through such an emergency.

'Regina Girl'! Saskatchewanians... er... Saskerites... won't take kindly to your misguided send
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 15, 2019, 02:25:00 pm
If the other place wasn't shut down temporarily I'd sends thoughts and prayers to BC2004 for being in a country living through such an emergency.

He'd simply ignore the issue, or offer some flatulent attempt to try to dance around it, or simply throw out yet another Canada troll. He seems so very envious of his northern neighbor. He should feel even more so today. BTW, it is back up and "running".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 15, 2019, 02:48:29 pm
Well surprise, surprise: another day, another shooting situation in the states, this time near Chicago. Will Trump do anything, yes, he will do exactly what the NRA has told him to do, keep your mouth shut, jump in AF one, and go play golf.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on February 15, 2019, 04:23:20 pm
Well surprise, surprise: another day, another shooting situation in the states, this time near Chicago. Will Trump do anything, yes, he will do exactly what the NRA has told him to do, keep your mouth shut, jump in AF one, and go play golf.
Well its not like mass shootings are a national emergency or anything.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 15, 2019, 04:32:00 pm
Well its not like mass shootings are a national emergency or anything.

Oh yeah, you get used to them after awhile. I just turn up the volume to hide the gunshot noise as I listen to Rush Limbaugh's guidance.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 15, 2019, 07:05:17 pm
Read elsewhere.

"Trump has rarely faced a crisis he didn't create"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 15, 2019, 08:57:46 pm
Just tuned back in to find the latest shooting in US ( Chicago) has left 5 dead and 5 police wounded. Trump posts this:


"Great job by law enforcement in Aurora, Illinois. Heartfelt condolences to all of the victims and their families. America is with you!"

 as he **** off to play golf.

I'm gonna ask betsy from over at shythole to help me select the appropriate sized/colored letters to enhance the term HYPOCRITE!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 16, 2019, 02:25:31 am
~77 thousand votes across those 3 states was the difference. Note the 'Others' category was principally votes for either Green Stein or Libertarian Johnson - both are said to have received significant positive messaging from the 'Russian influence'. The voting numbers within those 3 states 'Others' category significantly outweigh the final vote margins.

the Mueller investigation has included specifics that speak to the 'Trump campaign' delivery of voting data to 'Russian intermediaries'. Tightening the screws on just who/what was involved is in the Mueller-mix. The best has yet to be revealed!

Oh I have virtually no doubt about about Russian meddling in the election and the Trump campaign being involvement.  I'm just saying it's hard to know what the actual effect was.  It's very plausible they were involved in turning those states red, it's just hard to quantify it.  I'm saying one can't say for fact "without Russian meddling, Clinton would have won".

Quote
of course - ratings/ad monies; of course! Are you suggesting this had no influence in American minds, particularly the easily molded/swayed - those who can't be bothered to actually look at policy? Notwithstanding the purposeful target messaging directed by 'Russian influence'...

Of course it had influence in American minds.  But it's not Trump's fault that American's are stupid enough to watch all the absolutely terrible trash that is the US cable TV news channels.  He took advantage of it because he has many decades of experience knowing how to say things that will get him lots of media attention.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 16, 2019, 02:37:18 am
Oh I have virtually no doubt about about Russian meddling in the election and the Trump campaign being involvement.  I'm just saying it's hard to know what the actual effect was.  It's very plausible they were involved in turning those states red, it's just hard to quantify it.  I'm saying one can't say for fact "without Russian meddling, Clinton would have won".

Of course it had influence in American minds.  But it's not Trump's fault that American's are stupid enough to watch all the absolutely terrible trash that is the US cable TV news channels.  He took advantage of it because he has many decades of experience knowing how to say things that will get him lots of media attention.

My god what a flimsy attempt to try and divert attention from Trump. He's a criminal, he brags about grabbing women by the **** because he's "a star' Hello? Are ypo supporting this **** creep?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 16, 2019, 09:57:14 pm
Even an idiot like Ann Coulter now calls Trump an idiot. Is that some sort of double negative or does it mean that Trump is about as "idiot" as you can get? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 16, 2019, 10:39:32 pm
My god what a flimsy attempt to try and divert attention from Trump. He's a criminal, he brags about grabbing women by the **** because he's "a star' Hello? Are ypo supporting this **** creep?

I don't understand.

It seems extremely likely that yes he is a criminal, yes he's a megalomaniac narcissist womanizer sex-creep.  I am also saying his manipulation of the mainstream media is goddamned brilliant and he's always been extremely effective at self-marketing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 16, 2019, 10:44:55 pm
Even an idiot like Ann Coulter now calls Trump an idiot. Is that some sort of double negative or does it mean that Trump is about as "idiot" as you can get?

Pretty amazing when even Coulter is turning on him.  What's scary is that even though many Republican supporters dislike Trump, do they dislike him more than whoever the Democrats nominate in 2020 for traditional GOP voters to vote against Trump?  Doubtful.  So again it will come down to the wing voters, though Trump might have a harder time getting out the GOP base to vote.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 16, 2019, 10:52:14 pm

I don't understand.

It seems extremely likely that yes he is a criminal, yes he's a megalomaniac narcissist womanizer sex-creep.  I am also saying his manipulation of the mainstream media is goddamned brilliant and he's always been extremely effective at self-marketing.


"goddammed brilliant" if you are stupid/gullible enough to rely on fox/faux news, which is what his ~40% supporters seem to do. His problem is that people witha bit of education, who sat on their arses last election, are now saying they won't let that slip past us again. If they do Trumpy pumpy is ****.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 16, 2019, 11:05:46 pm
"goddammed brilliant" if you are stupid/gullible enough to rely on fox/faux news, which is what his ~40% supporters seem to do.

In 2016 CNN ran free Trump coverage almost 24/7 for the the year running up to the election, based mostly on the campaign messaging he was mouthing off about.  It didn't cost him a penny.  9/11 didn't get that much coverage on CNN the year following it.  That's extraordinarily brilliant, regardless of the content of that messaging.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 16, 2019, 11:10:52 pm
In 2016 CNN ran free Trump coverage almost 24/7 for the the year running up to the election, based mostly on the campaign messaging he was mouthing off about.  It didn't cost him a penny.  9/11 didn't get that much coverage on CNN the year following it.  That's extraordinarily brilliant, regardless of the content of that messaging.

Um, most national news networks cover election lead ups. That's part of what they are in business to do.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 16, 2019, 11:15:14 pm
Any bets on whether Roger Stone abides by the gag order, or makes a few more Nixon "V" signs and babbles himself into jail? I'd say he seems dumb enough to do so.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 17, 2019, 02:19:24 am
"goddammed brilliant" if you are stupid/gullible enough to rely on fox/faux news

speaking of Fox 'entities', something that has really not risen beyond the blogosphere level, the respective twitter accounts of these 6 Fox outlets went quiet back in Nov, 2018... and remain so today. Some, certainly not the waldo, have reported that Fox News/Sean Hannity has been under a FBI Counterintelligence Investigation for the past year+

(https://i.imgur.com/aejEcPt.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 17, 2019, 02:07:52 pm
Apparently we misheard Trump when he said Mexico was going to pay for his wall. what he actually said was the "military" was going to pay for his wall. I'm sure they are quite happy about that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 18, 2019, 02:16:53 pm
And the turmoil in the White House continues. If I'm getting this straight, Trump's "I didn't have to do it" declaration of a national "emergency" will go through congress which could very well vote it down, even among Repubs, especially those facing re election, in which case it goes back to the WH where Trump will likely veto it. Then the courts will get involved (apparently there are a number of suits already filed) and overall a **** load of taxpayer dollars will be pissed away with nothing getting done, all the while with Trump lying his ass off about already having built his wall. All the while El Chapo's buddies will be tunneling away to keep the drug demand in the US properly supplied.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 18, 2019, 04:25:03 pm
So Trump's little bum buddy Roger Stone posts on instagram a picture of the judge who is hearing his criminal case and recently issued a gag order on him. The pic even included a crosshairs in one corner. He has now taken it down, but one must wonder is he even stupider than Donny! I hope that judge issues an arrest order and he'll have a hard time mocking Nixon's "V" salute once they have the cuffs on him.

https://www.dailyrepublic.com/all-dr-news/wires/state-nation-world/roger-stone-posts-photo-of-judge-in-his-case-featuring-crosshairs-symbol-despite-gag-order/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on February 18, 2019, 07:19:34 pm
She thinks he's a wimp and an idiot because he's not a big enough fascist for her liking.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 18, 2019, 11:10:04 pm
Yep, I'm declaring a "national emergency" and now I'm going to **** off and play golf. Should trumpo supporters be kept on a little string like pre schoolers I wonder?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 19, 2019, 01:40:09 pm
Trump moves ever closer to impeachment. He has now asked his acting AG, Matt Whittaker, to put his buddy Geoff Berman, US attorney for the SDNY, who has already recused himself, to un recuse himself and be put in charge of the investigation into the Comey case regarding payments to Trump's **** star playmates. The plot sickens.

  https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/19/us/politics/trump-investigations.html

 As federal prosecutors in Manhattan gathered evidence late last year about President Trump’s role in silencing women with hush payments during the 2016 campaign, Mr. Trump called Matthew G. Whitaker, his newly installed attorney general, with a question. He asked whether Geoffrey S. Berman, the United States attorney for the Southern District of New York and a Trump ally, could be put in charge of the widening investigation, according to several American officials with direct knowledge of the call.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on February 19, 2019, 02:32:09 pm
Trump does his corruption out in the wide open. And it hasn't seemed to hurt him yet.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 19, 2019, 02:51:09 pm
Trump does his corruption out in the wide open. And it hasn't seemed to hurt him yet.

Ah no, Trump tries to do his corruption behind closed doors but it seems he is too stupid to achieve that. If you don't think it's hurt him look at his approval ratings. Of course the knuckle draggers that make up his base won't change but others have. And of course his latest activity, which has leaked out from behind those closed doors about thwarting the investigation as to his paying off his floozies to shut up, brings him closer to impeachment under obstruction of justice. He should hire an actual lawyer, not the nitwit Giuliani.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 19, 2019, 05:27:08 pm
Trump does his corruption out in the wide open. And it hasn't seemed to hurt him yet.

He is causing many disparate and weighty legal processes to lumber towards him... I don't think the system works if he gets elected in the first place and less so if they can't get rid of him quickly but I think he will be limited in his power soon.  He already has, with the midterms, and with the realization from Republicans that they could only use him for a few things.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 19, 2019, 08:27:37 pm
He is causing many disparate and weighty legal processes to lumber towards him... I don't think the system works if he gets elected in the first place and less so if they can't get rid of him quickly but I think he will be limited in his power soon.  He already has, with the midterms, and with the realization from Republicans that they could only use him for a few things.

Just listened to a bit of CNN...why would Cuomo, or any serious network (fox excluded of course) bring on a floozy like Kelly Anne Conway on for an interview. All she does is flasp her bums incessantly as she kisses her bosses arse, and the interviewer can barely get a word in edgewise. We all know she is nothing more than a wind up doll, so why bother?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on February 19, 2019, 11:03:45 pm
Just listened to a bit of CNN...why would Cuomo, or any serious network (fox excluded of course) bring on a floozy like Kelly Anne Conway on for an interview. All she does is flasp her bums incessantly as she kisses her bosses arse, and the interviewer can barely get a word in edgewise. We all know she is nothing more than a wind up doll, so why bother?

That's gums, not bums.

If she flapped her butt cheeks, I would not want to miss that....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 19, 2019, 11:14:00 pm
That's gums, not bums.

If she flapped her butt cheeks, I would not want to miss that....

Oops, typo error. And yeah I might tune in to see her bum flapping as long as she promised to keep her gums shut. I wonder if she lets Donny grab her by the **** since he is her star.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on February 20, 2019, 09:41:29 am
He is causing many disparate and weighty legal processes to lumber towards him...

That's just his buttocks Michael. Its attached to him and that gait, well his head is caught up there.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on February 20, 2019, 09:46:20 am
Oops, typo error. And yeah I might tune in to see her bum flapping as long as she promised to keep her gums shut. I wonder if she lets Donny grab her by the **** since he is her star.

I find your sexist banter oh so offensive.  I am telling Mr. Graham. I am sure he will find it offensive too.

I thought so much better of you Omni.

While we are at it with all this bum talk, Mr. Trump's medical report came back saying he was obese. Imagine that. This
coming from a man who called Rosie O'Donell a fat pig.

I always sensed Donald had big man breasts. Now I know. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Yokazuna the former
Champion of the WWE and Kamala the headhunter had man breasts and they were able to perform before the public.

I would like to see Donald take off his short and go swimming with Vlad side by side. Also why not do it with Kim Korea as well.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on February 20, 2019, 09:57:20 am
That's gums, not bums.

If she flapped her butt cheeks, I would not want to miss that....

For the Challenge. And let the other side have their say.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 20, 2019, 01:06:28 pm
Well the word from Washington now is the Mueller is done and his report could be delivered to the new AG as soon as next week. It will be interesting to see how much of the report is released to the public. I can imagine Trump leaning as heavy as he can on Bill Barr to keep quiet. We shall see.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 20, 2019, 05:03:28 pm
Apparently Fat Kim has whacked a few of his government people so as to "clean house" of people who aren't Trump fans in preparation for a visit from his bum boy Trump next week. Maybe Donny will get some guidance as to how to set up a firing squad and get rid of Comey etc.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 20, 2019, 11:32:12 pm
Cohen is set to testify next week, Mueller's report is set to be tabled next week, Trump will be with his buddy in North Korea next week. I wonder if there was any pre planning there. there
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 20, 2019, 11:58:05 pm
Apparently Fat Kim has whacked a few of his government people so as to "clean house" of people who aren't Trump fans in preparation for a visit from his bum boy Trump next week. Maybe Donny will get some guidance as to how to set up a firing squad and get rid of Comey etc.

not to be confused... BLOTUS is Fat Man & Kim is Little Boy!

(https://images.financialexpress.com/2017/08/DHBWZjYXcAEpWfo.jpg)  (https://i.imgur.com/fmjgSX8.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 21, 2019, 12:03:37 am
Ah but Donny claims he has the bigger "button".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on February 21, 2019, 12:07:02 am
Apparently Fat Kim has whacked a few of his government people so as to "clean house" of people who aren't Trump fans in preparation for a visit from his bum boy Trump next week. Maybe Donny will get some guidance as to how to set up a firing squad and get rid of Comey etc.

Expect the unexpected.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 21, 2019, 12:09:39 am
Expect the unexpected.

I'm running out of popcorn.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on February 21, 2019, 08:30:07 am
Well the word from Washington now is the Mueller is done and his report could be delivered to the new AG as soon as next week. It will be interesting to see how much of the report is released to the public. I can imagine Trump leaning as heavy as he can on Bill Barr to keep quiet. We shall see.

I'm not hopeful that it'll incriminate Trump. Bill Barr has made it clear that he won't publicize any names not under indictment or pending criminal charges.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 21, 2019, 01:57:34 pm
I'm not hopeful that it'll incriminate Trump. Bill Barr has made it clear that he won't publicize any names not under indictment or pending criminal charges.

I suspect congress will subpoena the file if Barr tries that.

Busy day in US courts. I kinda hope the judge throws Stone in jail. He'll have a spot of bother trying to mimic his buddy Nixon's V sign in handcuffs.
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 21, 2019, 02:42:49 pm
Busy day in US courts, so let's consider some of the most covered:

Smollett: hire's two guys to stage phony attack to try and improve his popularity.....Also likes to wear Trump's MAGA Hats

Hassan: Coast Guard lieutenant who stacked up a serious arsenal of weapons and wanted to "kill every person on earth" and launch a civil war if Trump was impeached.

Stone: Indicted on charges of election tampering to get his long time buddy Trump elected.

So it continues to appear that Donald Trump has some very "notable" supporters.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on February 21, 2019, 04:10:52 pm
Ah but Donny claims he has the bigger "button".

A mushroom [cloud].
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 22, 2019, 01:30:44 pm
Looks like Paul Manafort is about to be charged in New York State. Oops, so much for that pardon from Trump he was relying on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 22, 2019, 02:41:27 pm
Damn! just hearing the Mueller report won't be tabled next week after all. He apparently decided to hold off since Donny will be over visiting his buddy Fat Kim then. That could throw a wrench into Trump's plan who I wouldn't be surprised wanted to be out of the country to try and dodge what might be in the report. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 23, 2019, 12:25:02 pm
a week or so ago, Trump's 1st nominee for UN Ambassador, (former Fox News') Heather Nauert succumbed to the intense scrutiny over her (lack of) qualifications... and withdrew her nomination.

(https://www.tvovermind.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/heather_neuart_14-640x472.jpg)

it seems Trump's just announced replacement nominee Kelly Craft, the wife of a billionaire coal magnate & the U.S. Ambassador to Canada, has honed her diplomacy skills following (the perceived) climate change "debate"... claiming to recognize/respect both sides of the science! 2-sided science!!! (https://house-fastly-signed-eu-west-1-prod.brightcovecdn.com/media/v1/pmp4/static/clear/624246174001/a40b97e5-50d8-4cb2-9c3f-108c0302a138/9bbd15f6-49fb-4e13-a3dd-3651b14e94c6/main.mp4?fastly_token=NWU1MjU1OTVfNWNhZWM5NmY0MmM1Nzc5ODI3MzY4OWIzYmIwOGI3YTExMGJmNjUzOWNlYjFlY2ViM2Q3MDBjZWU1ZGNkZmY2Yl8vL2hvdXNlLWZhc3RseS1zaWduZWQtZXUtd2VzdC0xLXByb2QuYnJpZ2h0Y292ZWNkbi5jb20vbWVkaWEvdjEvcG1wNC9zdGF0aWMvY2xlYXIvNjI0MjQ2MTc0MDAxL2E0MGI5N2U1LTUwZDgtNGNiMi05YzNmLTEwOGMwMzAyYTEzOC85YmJkMTVmNi00OWZiLTRlMTMtYTNkZC0zNjUxYjE0ZTk0YzYvbWFpbi5tcDQ%3D)  ;D

Trump'sBimboBrand runs strong, runs deep!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 23, 2019, 12:49:28 pm
a week or so ago, Trump's 1st nominee for UN Ambassador, (former Fox News') Heather Nauert succumbed to the intense scrutiny over her (lack of) qualifications... and withdrew her nomination.

(https://www.tvovermind.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/heather_neuart_14-640x472.jpg)

it seems Trump's just announced replacement nominee Kelly Craft, the wife of a billionaire coal magnate & the U.S. Ambassador to Canada, has honed her diplomacy skills following (the perceived) climate change "debate"... claiming to recognize/respect both sides of the science! 2-sided science!!! (https://house-fastly-signed-eu-west-1-prod.brightcovecdn.com/media/v1/pmp4/static/clear/624246174001/a40b97e5-50d8-4cb2-9c3f-108c0302a138/9bbd15f6-49fb-4e13-a3dd-3651b14e94c6/main.mp4?fastly_token=NWU1MjU1OTVfNWNhZWM5NmY0MmM1Nzc5ODI3MzY4OWIzYmIwOGI3YTExMGJmNjUzOWNlYjFlY2ViM2Q3MDBjZWU1ZGNkZmY2Yl8vL2hvdXNlLWZhc3RseS1zaWduZWQtZXUtd2VzdC0xLXByb2QuYnJpZ2h0Y292ZWNkbi5jb20vbWVkaWEvdjEvcG1wNC9zdGF0aWMvY2xlYXIvNjI0MjQ2MTc0MDAxL2E0MGI5N2U1LTUwZDgtNGNiMi05YzNmLTEwOGMwMzAyYTEzOC85YmJkMTVmNi00OWZiLTRlMTMtYTNkZC0zNjUxYjE0ZTk0YzYvbWFpbi5tcDQ%3D)  ;D

Trump'sBimboBrand runs strong, runs deep!

I have used that "2 sided science" to my benefit from time to time. For instance walking down a street during a visit with relatives in Scotland while a thermal inversion layer keeps the coal smoke at street level. You simply summon up that other side and convince yourself breathing this stuff can't possibly be hurting me, after all it is a natural material dug from the earth. That black phlegm you honk up and spit out a little later is nothing to fret over. It is simply a second side of science symptom.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 25, 2019, 12:12:37 pm
Should be an interesting week in US politics, Trump is off to visit his buddy Fat Kim, congress is set to vote to block his "national emergency" and Michael Cohen testifies on the hill as well. I imagine he is being strongly advised to tell the truth, so we may get to hear the details of what his boss was really up to in Russia etc.

More popcorn.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 26, 2019, 04:40:58 pm
I've always considered Matt Gaetz a totally sick **** (of course he's one of Trump's bum boys so no surprise) but here is a recent tweet he sent to Mike Cohen the day before he faces public testimony in congress. If that's not a threat and witness tampering than my ass is a star. He should be arrested and he could sweep the cell floor to receive his boss after he gets done kissing Kimmy's arse.

Hey @MichaelCohen212 - Do your wife & father-in-law know about your girlfriends? Maybe tonight would be a good time for that chat. I wonder if she’ll remain faithful when you’re in prison.  She’s about to learn a lot...
4,349
1:12 PM - Feb 26, 2019
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 26, 2019, 08:47:53 pm
Hey here's an image for ya, Trump and Fat Kim sitting together in the middle of the night watching Cohen's testimony tomorrow. Kim will be able to console Trump since they have "fallen in love"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 27, 2019, 02:29:00 am
CadetBoneSpurs Solemnly Lays Wreath At Site Where He Would Have Died During Vietnam War If He Weren’t Rich (per the Onion)

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--LyNK5tpa--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/blhhogw2ykcxs50i427a.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 27, 2019, 02:38:04 am
(https://i.imgur.com/9jjOFVi.png)

(another fine parody twitter account)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 27, 2019, 12:14:05 pm
Been listening to a bit of the Cohen interrogation this am and just got a bit of a giggle from it. One Dem. congressman started out his question period by saying "Mr. Cohen the "other" members of the committee here today are not so much angry at you for lying to congress, but because you have stopped.

He is certainly getting grilled. I can well imagine Trump screaming at his TV while Kim eats the popcorn.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 27, 2019, 01:54:29 pm
Now that there is a recess, anybody wanna weigh in on the validity of Cohen's testimony and/or the damage it could do to Trump?
I personally think the comments he made with regard to payoff's to **** stars and playmates is a "bigly"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 27, 2019, 02:29:43 pm
Cohen also, in his opening remarks, made the connection between Trumps phony "bone spurs diagnosis" to keep him out of Viet Nam, and his current presence there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 27, 2019, 04:28:28 pm
Well Cohen is done and it's just coming up to 5:30 am in Hanoi. The tweet storm should be imminent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 27, 2019, 04:46:59 pm
I'm no fan of Cohen's but I do fear in a way for his family. Trump called him "a rat" and there could well be some sicko alt.right wing Trump supporter who can walk into his local gun store and then go and blow away Cohen's wife/kids on the way to school one day. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 27, 2019, 06:53:39 pm
I saw again today why Trumpland is so frightened of Ocasio-Cortez. She knows how to get to the point and ask direct questions about specific crimes and lay the groundwork for subpoenas. I don't think Trump's taxes are staying secret for long.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 27, 2019, 08:54:12 pm
It's weird that with all the Republican attacks about what a piece of **** Cohen is, more Democrats don't mention that he was the deputy chair of finance for the Republican National Committee when he committed all those crimes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 27, 2019, 09:49:37 pm
A lot of **** backfired on the repubs. today at the Cohen hearing, but I'd say none worse than Mark Meadows using a Black girl as a prop to show why his boss isn't a racist. Why are so many red necks so stupid?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 28, 2019, 05:49:16 am

"Sometimes you have to walk," Trump said during a news conference following the conclusion of the summit, which broke up earlier than planned. "This was just one of those times."

 ??? 

Given that the president was able to fritz up the first conference as a big achievement, why couldn't he do the same here ?  He kind of needed something big to go home to. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 28, 2019, 06:32:53 am
Given that the president was able to fritz up the first conference as a big achievement, why couldn't he do the same here ?  He kind of needed something big to go home to.

in recent weeks Trump had begun another round of self-lobbying for the Nobel Peace Prize... even to the point of stating his claimed close pal, Japan's Abe, nominated him (http://fortune.com/2019/02/15/donald-trump-nobel-peace-prize/). And now, lil' Kim shoots down his aspirations (for the second time)!

(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/180502195138-trump-nobel-prize-split-large-169.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 28, 2019, 01:00:26 pm
"Sometimes you have to walk," Trump said during a news conference following the conclusion of the summit, which broke up earlier than planned. "This was just one of those times."

 ??? 

Given that the president was able to fritz up the first conference as a big achievement, why couldn't he do the same here ?  He kind of needed something big to go home to.

Yes his recent trip to Hanoi achieved what I reckoned it would, SFA.

 Except, he managed to make yet another complete and utter **** of himself by contradicting his own earlier comments he made about what happened to Korean/American Otto Warmbier who was tortured during a visit to NK for taking down a propaganda sign. After once being "bigly" critical of Fat Kim as to what happened to Warmbier, he now says "Oh Kimmy didn't know anything about it". How sleazy will he get before Americans wake up?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on February 28, 2019, 01:01:40 pm
BREAKING: Trump claiming that he is finally a war hero - shot down in Vietnam.

-Disqus user marylamb
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 28, 2019, 01:21:16 pm
BREAKING: Trump claiming that he is finally a war hero - shot down in Vietnam.

-Disqus user marylamb

You beat me to it. I was just reading Waldo's latest after I got done posting one myself. Maybe instead of the Nobel Peace Prize he so wants, they could pin a silver star on him and then keep him in Hanoi for five and a half years.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 28, 2019, 03:58:02 pm
It looks like the focus should be taken off nitwit Trump and his visit to his murderer buddy Kim and send some adults to have a chat with India and Pakistan.

https://www.thenational.ae/world/asia/india-and-pakistan-face-off-over-kashmir-latest-news-1.831276

"The Indian Air Force on Thursday presented evidence of a Pakistani F-16 jet shot down on Wednesday.

The air force displayed fragments of an Amraan air-to-air missile, which can only be loaded onto an F-16 aircraft, at a joint press briefing with the army and navy.

India said they had downed one Pakistani jet on Wednesday, but little has been reported since.

They also said there continue to be violations of the Line of Control, which they say is met with a proportional response.

There was no damage caused to India's military installations by Pakistan's attack, the air force spokesperson said.

The Indian Navy also said they are in a state of combat readiness."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 01, 2019, 01:53:29 pm
When you combine the facts that the Dems. have now taken control of the House and oversight committees, and with the allegations from the recent Cohen testimony, the mailman could be kept quite busy delivering subpoenas to the Trump household. Trump Jr., Ivanka, Kishner for starters. Sean Hannitty could find one in his mailbox as well after a comment he made while interviewing Trump claiming he had info. to refute some of Cohen's claims. The gong-show continues.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 02, 2019, 02:10:37 pm
Anybody else listen to any of Trump's latest speech at CPAC? I guess he's in a childish snit after getting his ass kicked in Hanoi by his little buddy Fat Kim. He made a complete ass of himself over 2 hours. A lot of it sounded like it could well have been written by Putin. Who knows, maybe it was. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 03, 2019, 02:51:21 pm
Now that Rand Paul has weighed in against Trump's "national emergency" nonsense, the senate has made up the majority of votes against the declaration. Unfortunately not quite enough to override Trump's veto power, which he has vowed to use, but he will further isolate himself by doing so. Now that his buddy fat kim gave him the finger, where will he seek solace next? Avisit to Vladi maybe?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/03/politics/rand-paul-trump-national-emergency-declaration/index.html 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 04, 2019, 02:42:44 pm
This will likely get Trumps knickers in an even tighter knot.

The House Judiciary Committee on Monday launched a large-scale investigation into alleged abuses of power by President Donald Trump, sending requests for documents to 81 individuals and entities, including the president's sons.

The probe will focus on three main topics: alleged obstruction of justice by Trump and others and the "alleged cover-up of violations of the law"; alleged corruption in areas including violations of the Constitution's emoluments clause "and other criminal misuses of official positions for personal gain"; and alleged abuses of power, such as attacking the press and misusing the presidential pardon power.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/04/white-house-receives-nadlers-request-for-documents-in-corruption-probe.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 04, 2019, 08:38:19 pm
Trump wrapping his arms around and hugging the flag was simply the first and most obvious demonstration of "Bullshit" during his latest speech.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 05, 2019, 01:36:34 pm
Just listened to Trump babbling on again at a meeting with veterans about how "his administration has done more in the first two years than any other previous administration." So let's have a look and see if he's lying yet again.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38663043

Yep, lying again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Super Colin Blow on March 05, 2019, 01:47:31 pm
The problem with going after Donald Trump is that his supporters will always believe he can walk on water. If you impeach him it's "a witch hunt". He has to be defeated at the polls definitely and definitely.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 05, 2019, 01:52:38 pm
The problem with going after Donald Trump is that his supporters will always believe he can walk on water. If you impeach him it's "a witch hunt". He has to be defeated at the polls definitely and definitely.

I hope for the sake of Americans they will heed your advice next time at the polls. From what I've heard younger voters, who have tended to be a bit lazy on voting day, are planning to get of the couch next time around. Bad news for Bonespurs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on March 05, 2019, 02:04:09 pm
The problem with going after Donald Trump is that his supporters will always believe he can walk on water. If you impeach him it's "a witch hunt". He has to be defeated at the polls definitely and definitely.
It he is defeated at the polls it is because the polls are "rigged". There is no scenario where Trumpettes would accept that Trump has to go.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 05, 2019, 03:28:28 pm
It he is defeated at the polls it is because the polls are "rigged". There is no scenario where Trumpettes would accept that Trump has to go.

And of course what is actually "rigged" is the EC system, otherwise Trump wouldn't have been elected.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on March 05, 2019, 09:15:57 pm
If they get some Republicans onboard with impeachment, then it wouldn’t be rigged or a witch-hunt...   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 05, 2019, 09:20:11 pm
Impeachment would be a waste of time and effort. Wouldn't get through the senate. The ballot box is the best way. Hopefully that youth vote will overwhelm the EC.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 06, 2019, 10:00:15 am
Impeachment would be a waste of time and effort. Wouldn't get through the senate. The ballot box is the best way. Hopefully that youth vote will overwhelm the EC.
Well, the youth vote, combined with the minority vote (many former Obama voters sat out the 2016 election; hopefully they learned their lesson that sitting out is a good way to get a racist elected.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 06, 2019, 12:10:03 pm
If they get some Republicans onboard with impeachment, then it wouldn’t be rigged or a witch-hunt...

Best case scenario for impeachment is they have the goods on Trump, he resigns or is convicted of whatever, Pence is now POTUS and pardons Trump.  Tadow nothing accomplished besides Trump getting the boot.

Election is next year, just vote the bum out.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 06, 2019, 02:03:14 pm
And of course what is actually "rigged" is the EC system, otherwise Trump wouldn't have been elected.

It isn't rigged, everyone knows how it works. Trump just played that game better. Hillary took a few states for granted and it backfired.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 06, 2019, 02:10:51 pm
It isn't rigged, everyone knows how it works. Trump just played that game better. Hillary took a few states for granted and it backfired.

It's gerrymandered in favor of the GOP. One need only look back to the 2016 election when ~3 million more people cast ballots for Hillary, but guess who won. Thank you EC.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 06, 2019, 02:53:30 pm
It's gerrymandered in favor of the GOP. One need only look back to the 2016 election when ~3 million more people cast ballots for Hillary, but guess who won. Thank you EC.
If you want to get picky...

Technically its not 'gerrymandered'. Gerrymandering refer to the process of specifically redrawing electoral boundaries in order to favor one candidate over another. Since the republicans didn't redraw state lines to help Trump win, it doesn't count as 'gerrymandering'.

That doesn't mean that the Electoral college isn't flawed. (Between the 'winner take all' format for most states, and the fact that the less-populated states with a large rural population get a disproportionate amount of representation, Democrats do have a reason to question the fairness of the system.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 06, 2019, 03:04:05 pm
If you want to get picky...

Technically its not 'gerrymandered'. Gerrymandering refer to the process of specifically redrawing electoral boundaries in order to favor one candidate over another. Since the republicans didn't redraw state lines to help Trump win, it doesn't count as 'gerrymandering'.

That doesn't mean that the Electoral college isn't flawed. (Between the 'winner take all' format for most states, and the fact that the less-populated states with a large rural population get a disproportionate amount of representation, Democrats do have a reason to question the fairness of the system.)

The gerrymandering, (or call it redistricting if you like) was in place long before 2016 election.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/partisan-gerrymandering-has-benefited-gop-analysis-shows-n776436
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 07, 2019, 07:49:28 am
It's gerrymandered in favor of the GOP. One need only look back to the 2016 election when ~3 million more people cast ballots for Hillary, but guess who won. Thank you EC.
You're confused. Congressional districts are gerrymandered in favour of the Republicans.

The problem with the presidential election is the Electoral College. In the last 25  years, Republicans have consistently lost the presidential election by popular vote. Democratic popular vote winners have been screwed over by the electoral college over and over again.

The fact is that Americans don't want Republican presidents but they continue to end up with them and it emboldens the anti-immigrant, anti-lgbt, anti-women, anti-worker regressives to think that their views are more accepted than they really are.

Gerrymandering in Congress gives them further undue influence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on March 07, 2019, 08:36:16 am
The problem with the presidential election is the Electoral College. In the last 25  years, Republicans have consistently lost the presidential election by popular vote. Democratic popular vote winners have been screwed over by the electoral college over and over again.
The american electoral system is set up on the based on the premise that rep by pop needs to be balanced against rep for states because they did not want a few large states completely dominating the government. This rational was sound then as it is now. The system has not 'screwed' the dems. The dems have screwed themselves by developing policy platforms that don't appeal to people living outside of major urban centers. The dems need to learn that the US is more than NY or LA.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 07, 2019, 11:49:10 am
The american electoral system is set up on the based on the premise that rep by pop needs to be balanced against rep for states because they did not want a few large states completely dominating the government. This rational was sound then as it is now.
Two comments:

- The U.S. senate (where each state gets 2 senators regardless of population) already provided the balance to prevent a few large states from dominating politics. Throwing in the electoral collage as well seems like a bit of overkill.

- The rules may have made sense 2 centuries ago when the U.S. was first founded, but things have changes slightly. The size difference between the biggest and smallest states (in terms of population) is greater now than it was in the 1700s (California is roughly 67 times the size of Wyoming, whereas in the 1700s, Virginia was only ~50 times the size of Tennessee). Plus, with advances in transportation and technology, the rule has become less relevant.

- While the goal of preventing the domination of politics by larger states may have some merit, the Electoral college does directly go against the concept of equality, in that it grants more political power to certain individuals based only on where they live.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 07, 2019, 12:24:36 pm
The american electoral system is set up on the based on the premise that rep by pop needs to be balanced against rep for states because they did not want a few large states completely dominating the government. This rational was sound then as it is now. The system has not 'screwed' the dems. The dems have screwed themselves by developing policy platforms that don't appeal to people living outside of major urban centers. The dems need to learn that the US is more than NY or LA.

It's not so much "the system" that screwed the dems, it's more the repubs who have more often been able to use the system to re draw borders in EC districts in such a way as to "screw the dems".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on March 07, 2019, 12:59:56 pm
- The U.S. senate (where each state gets 2 senators regardless of population) already provided the balance to prevent a few large states from dominating politics. Throwing in the electoral collage as well seems like a bit of overkill.
That's your opinion. Never the less, it is not an unreasonable mechanism. That said the 2 extra seats per state are not the issue. The issue is the all or nothing mechanisms for assign EC votes. States do this because it is means small swings in votes make a larger difference in the presidential election which, in turn,  means the concerns of people living in different states has to be considered by the presidential candidates. IOW, it is accomplishing its intended objective and that fact that Dems find it inconvenient is not an argument against it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 07, 2019, 01:07:21 pm
That's your opinion. Never the less, it is not an unreasonable mechanism. That said the 2 extra seats per state are not the issue. The issue is the all or nothing mechanisms for assign EC votes. States do this because it is means small swings in votes make a larger difference in the presidential election which, in turn,  means the concerns of people living in different states has to be considered by the presidential candidates. IOW, it is accomplishing its intended objective and that fact that Dems find it inconvenient is not an argument against it.

It's a system that is completely outdated and highly biased in favor of the GOP. How's that for a couple of arguments against it. I suspect you are a GOP type so it suits you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: TimG on March 07, 2019, 01:16:31 pm
It's not so much "the system" that screwed the dems, it's more the repubs who have more often been able to use the system to re draw borders in EC districts in such a way as to "screw the dems".
Yeesh. Please go learn about how the US system works. You will know you have learned enough when you realized that what you just said is complete nonsense.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 07, 2019, 01:26:39 pm
Yeesh. Please go learn about how the US system works. You will know you have learned enough when you realized that what you just said is complete nonsense.

Yeeesh. Here's a little reading for you on how it actually works and why its biased.

As Americans await the quadrennial running of the presidential obstacle course now known as the Electoral College, it’s worth remembering why we have this odd political contraption in the first place. After all, state governors in all 50 states are elected by popular vote; why not do the same for the governor of all states, a.k.a. the president? The quirks of the Electoral College system were exposed this week when Donald Trump secured the presidency with an Electoral College majority, even as Hillary Clinton took a narrow lead in the popular vote.


http://time.com/4558510/electoral-college-history-slavery/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 07, 2019, 01:35:22 pm
Manafort to be sentenced soon. Anybody willing to guess on how many years gets? I suspect he'll get some leniency do to his failing health/age. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on March 07, 2019, 02:23:37 pm
The american electoral system is set up on the based on the premise that rep by pop needs to be balanced against rep for states because they did not want a few large states completely dominating the government. This rational was sound then as it is now

The system was set up where there were 13 states, and total population was under 4 million. That is nothing like the situation today.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 07, 2019, 02:31:33 pm
The system was set up where there were 13 states, and total population was under 4 million. That is nothing like the situation today.

And also when, if you happened to be a farmer in ND for instance, you likely had no way of knowing what the hell was going on in DC. so the EC was a bit of a backstop.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 07, 2019, 02:59:06 pm
Manafort to be sentenced soon. Anybody willing to guess on how many years gets? I suspect he'll get some leniency do to his failing health/age.
I sure the heck hope not....

Manafort's crimes have been going on for a rather lengthy period of time. He's a habitual criminal. And when he was given the option of assisting with the Mueller case, he instead decided to break his plea deal. He should be in jail for rest of his natural life and die in prison. His 'leniency' should be that they aren't going to turn him into a zombie so that he can actually serve out the rest of his assigned sentence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 07, 2019, 03:15:46 pm
I sure the heck hope not....

Manafort's crimes have been going on for a rather lengthy period of time. He's a habitual criminal. And when he was given the option of assisting with the Mueller case, he instead decided to break his plea deal. He should be in jail for rest of his natural life and die in prison. His 'leniency' should be that they aren't going to turn him into a zombie so that he can actually serve out the rest of his assigned sentence.

I would agree. I'm hearing his lawyers are asking for leniency because they say he is less likely to commit further crimes after he serves his term. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought sentencing was based on crimes already committed. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on March 07, 2019, 04:10:59 pm
The system was set up where there were 13 states, and total population was under 4 million. That is nothing like the situation today.

Not that different than Canada. Ontario, BC, and Alberta are under represented in the HOC, relative to population, while all four Atlantic provinces, and the Territories are over represented.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on March 07, 2019, 04:22:27 pm
Not that different than Canada. Ontario, BC, and Alberta are under represented in the HOC, relative to population, while all four Atlantic provinces, and the Territories are over represented.

I have complained many times before about the unfair representation in Canada. By province it is bad, but by riding it is terrible. I used to live in a riding that had nine time the population of other ridings.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on March 07, 2019, 04:25:09 pm
You live somewhere in the GTA?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on March 07, 2019, 04:34:27 pm
You live somewhere in the GTA?

I used to live in Oak Ridges—Markham riding, population 229,000
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 07, 2019, 06:34:12 pm
I have complained many times before about the unfair representation in Canada. By province it is bad, but by riding it is terrible. I used to live in a riding that had nine time the population of other ridings.

I believe in the 80s North York had 1 MP for 500,000 people. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_of_Canadian_federal_ridings

Do a sort by population and see how great Ontario - and particularly Toronto and the GTA - are treated here.  Almost all the top 40 by population are in Ontario except maybe 3 in BC and 1 in Alberta.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 07, 2019, 08:16:23 pm
Just flipped the tv back on. Manafort gets less than 4 years. I'm shocked!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 08, 2019, 12:19:53 am
Justice in the US isn't blind, it's bought.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 08, 2019, 09:56:29 am
That's your opinion. Never the less, it is not an unreasonable mechanism.
It is unreasonable, for all of the reasons that he stated.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 08, 2019, 11:20:57 am
Just flipped the tv back on. Manafort gets less than 4 years. I'm shocked!
True, he got a sentence far less than the prosecutors were seeking, and far less than what the sentencing guidelines recommended.

The judge in the case (T.S Ellis) was a Reagan appointee, and was known for being a conservative. During the sentencing, he suggested that Manafort deserved a shorter sentence because he lead an otherwise blameless life, a rather idiotic statement given how many crimes he's been accused of over the course of decades. (And keep in mind that this is the same judge who actually gave a black Democratic congressman, William J. Jefferson, 13 years.)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/charlestiefer/2019/03/07/the-judge-who-let-manafort-off-easy-with-47-months-is-an-arch-conservative/#24ee5bd25256

But, there may still be hope... Yesterday's sentencing was for only one of his Trials. He will have a second round of sentencing next week from Judge Amy Berman-Jackson over charges of making false statements, witness tampering and conspiracy against the U.S. The sentencing guidelines suggest an ~10 year sentence, and she could make the sentence run consecutively with his existing sentences. (Given the fact that she was the one who revoked his bail earlier, there's a chance that she will be less lenient.)

A couple of other things of note:

- 4 years in jail (less than that actually, what with time already served, parole, etc.) may not seem like a lot, but Manafort is not a young person... he will be serving his sentence at a part of his life when he doesn't have many years left and probably isn't in the best of health.

- Manafort did end up giving up a lot of his assets as part of his earlier deal with Mueller. And, its possible that at least some of the money he 'gave up' wasn't actually his, but belonged to foreign entities, who may actually want to be paid back.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 08, 2019, 11:38:56 am
True, he got a sentence far less than the prosecutors were seeking, and far less than what the sentencing guidelines recommended.

The judge in the case (T.S Ellis) was a Reagan appointee, and was known for being a conservative. During the sentencing, he suggested that Manafort deserved a shorter sentence because he lead an otherwise blameless life, a rather idiotic statement given how many crimes he's been accused of over the course of decades. (And keep in mind that this is the same judge who actually gave a black Democratic congressman, William J. Jefferson, 13 years.)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/charlestiefer/2019/03/07/the-judge-who-let-manafort-off-easy-with-47-months-is-an-arch-conservative/#24ee5bd25256

But, there may still be hope... Yesterday's sentencing was for only one of his Trials. He will have a second round of sentencing next week from Judge Amy Berman-Jackson over charges of making false statements, witness tampering and conspiracy against the U.S. The sentencing guidelines suggest an ~10 year sentence, and she could make the sentence run consecutively with his existing sentences. (Given the fact that she was the one who revoked his bail earlier, there's a chance that she will be less lenient.)

A couple of other things of note:

- 4 years in jail (less than that actually, what with time already served, parole, etc.) may not seem like a lot, but Manafort is not a young person... he will be serving his sentence at a part of his life when he doesn't have many years left and probably isn't in the best of health.

- Manafort did end up giving up a lot of his assets as part of his earlier deal with Mueller. And, its possible that at least some of the money he 'gave up' wasn't actually his, but belonged to foreign entities, who may actually want to be paid back.

Yes I suspect you're correct that he likely won't be treated so gently at his next sentencing hearing, and he is no longer a "spring chicken" and his health seems to be failing. Looking at Manafort's history I would have to take exception with Judge Ellis' comment as to a "blameless life". Given the amounts of restitution he has had to pay I suspect he might be a little low on funds so being in a place where he gets three free squares a day along with medical help if needed may be the best place for him. Apparently he doesn't like the food so much but it has kept him alive for the past ~9 months.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 08, 2019, 12:16:08 pm
So Trump lies yet again today. This time suggesting the judge in the Manafort case said that his findings included that there was no Russian collusion. No in fact Mr. Bonespurs, the trial was actually about tax/bank fraud, and was in no way conclusive as to collusion with the Ruskies. What's he up to now, well over 8000 lies I think in the latest tally.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 09, 2019, 03:12:25 pm
Turns out Trump is good friends with the owner of the **** house/spa? where Robert Kraft, another long time Trump buddy was charged with soliciting. Trump even invited her to his Superbowl party. Of course she and her husband had donated close to 100k to Trumps election campaign, so why not offer a little payback. And of course he needs to keep the swamp full.


A photo published Friday in the Miami Herald shows the founder and one-time owner of a spa implicated in a human-trafficking ring attended President Donald Trump’s Super Bowl watch party at his West Palm Beach country club in February.

While the New England Patriots played the Los Angeles Rams In Atlanta, Li Yang snapped a blurry selfie with a smiling Trump, who turned in his chair to look over his right shoulder for the photo. He was seated at a round table decorated with paper-cutout footballs.


https://globalnews.ca/news/5038169/donald-trump-watched-super-bowl-with-ex-owner-of-spa-linked-to-robert-kraft-arrest/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 10, 2019, 01:45:00 pm
And now an update: turns out that the **** house owner , Li Yang, has moved on from that business and now, with her close ties to Trump, is making money by providing access to Trump and family Chinese nationals/investors. I guess after the Russians got their chance to **** with the 2016 election to get Trump to the White House, it's now China's turn to keep him there come 2020.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/donald-trump-robert-kraft-li-yang-massage-parlor-pay-for-access_n_5c8442dbe4b08d5b78624c31
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 11, 2019, 01:59:30 pm
Just listened to the daily White House briefing, (you know, the ones that happen every, oh, 42 days or so), and Sarah Sanders was consistent with making a complete ass of herself as she pushes Trump lies. Now apparently the dems. hate jews, and Trumps comments clearly endorsing nazi supporters in Charlottesville was somehow "misunderstood". I guess it's not hard to see why she doesn't take the podium very often.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 13, 2019, 12:10:48 pm
Re: Manafort sentencing

Yes I suspect you're correct that he likely won't be treated so gently at his next sentencing hearing, and he is no longer a "spring chicken" and his health seems to be failing.
So, Manafort has been sentenced to an additional ~3.5 years in the Washington case. (He actually got 73 months, but part of his sentence will run concurrently with his previous conviction.

From: https://globalnews.ca/news/5050817/paul-manafort-prison-sentencing-russia-probe/
The sentence of 73 months in prison imposed by U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson in Washington came six days after a different judge gave Manafort a lenient term of 47 months... Jackson said 30 months of her sentence will run at the same time as the sentence in the Virginia case. That means the combined sentence will be six years and nine months.

But, it gets better... Just minutes after Manafort's sentencing, this happened:

From: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/13/paul-manafort-indicted-by-ny-prosecutors-after-federal-sentencing.html
New York prosecutors announced the indictment of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort on Wednesday, only minutes after his sentencing in a federal case. The 16 charges unveiled by Manhattan District Attorney Cy Vance relate to mortgage fraud, conspiracy and falsifying business records.

There are 2 good things about his:
- If the charges are successful, it will mean Manafort spends longer in jail, something he deserves
- Trump can't pardon Manafort for state crimes
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 13, 2019, 12:13:50 pm
Womp. Womp.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 13, 2019, 12:17:47 pm
So, Manafort has been sentenced to an additional ~3.5 years in the Washington case. (He actually got 73 months, but part of his sentence will run concurrently with his previous conviction.

From: https://globalnews.ca/news/5050817/paul-manafort-prison-sentencing-russia-probe/
The sentence of 73 months in prison imposed by U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson in Washington came six days after a different judge gave Manafort a lenient term of 47 months... Jackson said 30 months of her sentence will run at the same time as the sentence in the Virginia case. That means the combined sentence will be six years and nine months.

But, it gets better... Just minutes after Manafort's sentencing, this happened:

From: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/13/paul-manafort-indicted-by-ny-prosecutors-after-federal-sentencing.html
New York prosecutors announced the indictment of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort on Wednesday, only minutes after his sentencing in a federal case. The 16 charges unveiled by Manhattan District Attorney Cy Vance relate to mortgage fraud, conspiracy and falsifying business records.

There are 2 good things about his:
- If the charges are successful, it will mean Manafort spends longer in jail, something he deserves
- Trump can't pardon Manafort for state crimes

I imagine he'll try and go the "double jeopardy" route but I suspect that will fail so he would be well advised to get used to that prison cell.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 13, 2019, 12:20:19 pm
The United States doesn't have double jeopardy in that way. You can be tried again in a different jurisdiction or between criminal and civil proceedings for the same fact.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 13, 2019, 12:44:31 pm
I imagine he'll try and go the "double jeopardy" route but I suspect that will fail so he would be well advised to get used to that prison cell.
The United States doesn't have double jeopardy in that way. You can be tried again in a different jurisdiction or between criminal and civil proceedings for the same fact.
Actually double jeopardy is a concern, as New York has a law that prevents a person being tried for state crimes when they have already been tried federally (assuming the charges are roughly analogous.)

There are 2 ways around it:

- Some of the state charges could be for cases that are similar to the ones Manafort was charged with, but deal with different incidences. (For example, filing a false state tax return is a different crime than filing a false federal tax return.

- The state of New york is currently in the process of debating (and hopefully passing) a bill that will allow state charges to be filed even if federal charges existed

https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2019/02/22/double-jeopardy-worries-loom-over-ny-state-charges-against-manafort/?slreturn=20190213133142

https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2019/03/12/ny-lawmakers-expected-to-pass-bill-closing-double-jeopardy-loophole/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 14, 2019, 08:16:29 pm
I just watched a segment of CNN. Why the **** does Mario Cuomo invite Kelly Anne Conway on his show. She's just a creep and he's just as creepy for inviting her. Complete and utter waste of time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on March 15, 2019, 12:12:35 am
I just watched a segment of CNN. Why the **** does Mario Cuomo invite Kelly Anne Conway on his show. She's just a creep and he's just as creepy for inviting her. Complete and utter waste of time.

Ratings.

I would do the same if I owned a large American media outlet.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 15, 2019, 07:27:34 am
Kelly Anne Conway is good for ratings? Really?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 15, 2019, 11:54:24 am
Kelly Anne Conway is good for ratings? Really?
I suspect she is, in a train-wreck "can't help but look" sort of way.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 15, 2019, 12:07:46 pm
I just watched a segment of CNN. Why the **** does Mario Cuomo invite Kelly Anne Conway on his show. She's just a creep and he's just as creepy for inviting her. Complete and utter waste of time.

they shifted him from his morning gig in an attempt to lessen the beating they were taking in that time-slot going up against Rachel Maddow. The premise they follow is standard CNN; either bring in known advocates from both sides to directly engage, or have the host go up against a Trumpist directly. It's all weak sauce for any viewer with even a modicum of political acumen...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 15, 2019, 12:57:37 pm
I suspect she is, in a train-wreck "can't help but look" sort of way.

Yes I suppose that theory works to a certain extent (I assume CNN must think so or why bother) but it backfires elsewhere. I usually hit the mute button and head out to the kitchen to top up my coffee as soon as I see/hear her. I listened for a bit yesterday just to see if anything had changed. It actually had, for the worse. For one thing, you can't tell what the hell anybody is saying because everyone is babbling at the same time. Her MO has always been to just babble endlessly while the cameras are switched on and she has her nose so far up Trumps arse the lies and propaganda are equally as endless. I wish she would be kept over at Fox    faux news where she belongs and that Cuomo would go work for them if he enjoys those type childish interviews.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 15, 2019, 01:22:50 pm
So an Australian national leaves home and hops across to New Zealand to arm up and go shoot Muslims in a mosque. Why? probably because of the slack gun laws in NZ as opposed to those in his home country. He could have come to the US to carry out his deed, lots of guns, lots of mosques, maybe he just didn't have the money for a ticket that far. Am I trying to blame this incident somehow on Trump, no of course not. Is there any type of connection, well, Trump has clearly stated he doesn't like gun laws and he doesn't like Muslims, and he gets "honorably" mentioned in the 87 page manifesto published on line by the shooter. NZ apparently has such slack gun laws simply because they haven't needed them. Things may change now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 15, 2019, 01:47:54 pm
So an Australian national leaves home and hops across to New Zealand to arm up and go shoot Muslims in a mosque. Why? probably because of the slack gun laws in NZ...
Not sure if I'd call the gun laws in NZ "slack". Granted, they are less stringent than Australia's, but owners do require a license (which I think needs a background check, is only for a limited time and can be revoked by the police), and has strict rules on storage and use.

So, somewhere between Australia's exceptionally stringent laws and the U.S.'s overly-lax laws.
Quote
Am I trying to blame this incident somehow on Trump, no of course not. Is there any type of connection, well, Trump has clearly stated he doesn't like gun laws and he doesn't like Muslims, and he gets "honorably" mentioned in the 87 page manifesto published on line by the shooter.
Even if Trump wasn't directly responsible for this particular incident, I do think its fair to criticize him for using the rhetoric that could inspire people in the U.S. to commit similar crimes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 15, 2019, 02:09:54 pm
Not sure if I'd call the gun laws in NZ "slack". Granted, they are less stringent than Australia's, but owners do require a license (which I think needs a background check, is only for a limited time and can be revoked by the police), and has strict rules on storage and use.

So, somewhere between Australia's exceptionally stringent laws and the U.S.'s overly-lax laws. Even if Trump wasn't directly responsible for this particular incident, I do think its fair to criticize him for using the rhetoric that could inspire people in the U.S. to commit similar crimes.

"Slack" may not be the exactly correct word but the NZ laws are far less stringent than those in Australia. Probably because they haven't had to deal with these mass shooting events for decades. Unfortunately they now may have to reconsider.



https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/15/asia/new-zealand-gun-control-intl/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 15, 2019, 02:20:44 pm
"Slack" may not be the exactly correct word but the NZ laws are far less stringent than those in Australia. Probably because they haven't had to deal with these mass shooting events for decades. Unfortunately they now may have to reconsider.



https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/15/asia/new-zealand-gun-control-intl/index.html

Either that or require visas for visitors from Australia. :)
Most cops still don't carry guns in NZ, it would be a shame for that to change.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 15, 2019, 02:23:31 pm
As far as Tump goes, the usual nothingburger "thoughts and prayers" from the usual actors.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 15, 2019, 03:20:23 pm
And now Trump is remarking on his signing of the veto, going against the wishes of the actual government, talks about all the hordes of terrorists crossing the southern border, and once again confirms that the way you tell Trumpty Dumbty is lying is because his lips are moving.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 15, 2019, 03:39:57 pm
As far as Tump goes, the usual nothingburger "thoughts and prayers" from the usual actors.
I wouldn't say "nothingburger"... After all, he did tweet about how if you don't support him, his followers (including police, military, and biker gangs) would get violent. That's not exactly nothing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 15, 2019, 03:59:32 pm
I wouldn't say "nothingburger"... After all, he did tweet about how if you don't support him, his followers (including police, military, and biker gangs) would get violent. That's not exactly nothing.

Yes yet another  stupider and even scarier comment by Trump. Hopefully the police will throw that tweet in the garbage can but I wonder about some of the rednecks in biker gangs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 18, 2019, 01:40:01 pm
The Trump gong show continues: over the weekend he punches out somewhere around 50 tweets, laced with lies including with regard to the Steele dossier and unwarranted slams against now deceased Sen. John McCain. I liked the way McCain's daughter replied with her own tweet. "No one will ever love you the way they loved my father,". Then he takes an hour away from tweeting to attend church where the minister makes the point to mention the growing numbers of hate crimes. Then back to his tweetstorm offering to take action against SNL through the FEC/FCC because he didn't like the fact they mocked him, and at the same time wants Fox to re-instate "Judge Jeanine" who was sent home for making racist comments on air.
Thgen to top things off George Conway, Kelly Anne's hubby tweets out that he thinks Trump is mentally ill. I would totally agree with that but I wonder if when got home for supper all he got was hot tongue and cold shoulder.
I may wander over to shythole and see how BC is trying to throw his support behind his mentor.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on March 18, 2019, 02:56:10 pm
Donald Trump is someone we should strive not to be like. Having hate in your heart destroys Men. I hope America elects a leader like Obama next election.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 18, 2019, 04:00:46 pm
Donald Trump is someone we should strive not to be like. Having hate in your heart destroys Men. I hope America elects a leader like Obama next election.

I certainly don't/didn't have to strive not to like Trump. I quite easily went down that road back in the day when I heard him bragging to a reporter about being guilty of sexual assault.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 19, 2019, 10:33:53 am
Then he takes an hour away from tweeting to attend church where the minister makes the point to mention the growing numbers of hate crimes.
Wait a second... he went into a church and it didn't collapse on him, or he wasn't struck by lighting when he entered?

See, proof that god does not exist!

I wonder if he was asked to do a reading from Two-Corinthians.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 19, 2019, 11:24:14 am
Wait a second... he went into a church and it didn't collapse on him, or he wasn't struck by lighting when he entered?

See, proof that god does not exist!

I wonder if he was asked to do a reading from Two-Corinthians.

See? Trump is willing to study. At first he knew nothing. Then he boned up and kinda sorta named one verse that kinda sorta exists—but not really. Finally he boned up some more and named an actual Bible verse which he quoted accurately.

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/01/two-corinthians-walk-bar/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 19, 2019, 12:54:58 pm
Trump and his buddy the "Trump of The Tropics" are about to have a Rose Garden news conference. I wonder if he will use the opportunity to take yet another shot at McCain. He has his lies on the Steele dossier well rehearsed after all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 20, 2019, 10:11:35 pm
Trump is now pissing into his pants because he didn't get a thank you for allowing John McCain a state funeral. Poor Donny!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 20, 2019, 11:50:22 pm
I wonder if Kelly Anne lets Donny grab her by the p***y because she thinks  he's "a star" just as much as he does. The stench of the scum on the trump swamp is getting ever more stinky even here north of the border.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 21, 2019, 12:23:18 pm
Trump gets his feet in his mouth yet again during his speech in Ohio yesterday when he tried to slam John McCain, yet again, in front of a room containing a number of veterans. Apparently the room remained silent. George Conway seems to be correct, he is "Nuts".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 21, 2019, 05:49:20 pm
Trump gets his feet in his mouth yet again during his speech in Ohio yesterday when he tried to slam John McCain, yet again, in front of a room containing a number of veterans. Apparently the room remained silent. George Conway seems to be correct, he is "Nuts".

Is it me or is he making continual missteps in ways that he didn't in the past ?  He seems more desperate to me but I'm no arbiter of anything, I have TDS.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 21, 2019, 06:07:36 pm
Is it me or is he making continual missteps in ways that he didn't in the past ?  He seems more desperate to me but I'm no arbiter of anything, I have TDS.

I think he is slipping ever further as he goes. I think I posted about this but I listened in a bit to his speech in Ohio and he seemed like a "drunken sailor" throwing crap at John McCain once again, not only in an inappropriate way since there were veterans in the room, but in a general sense as if he were somehow intoxicated, even though they say he doesn't drink. I think the looming pressure of the Mueller report and the backlash from people who respected McCain is causing him to lose his temper ever more. His tolerance for any criticism doesn't seem to rise above childish sandbox level.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on March 21, 2019, 07:06:31 pm
I personally thought something was wrong with Donald Trump around 2007.  After Rosie O'Donnell bad-mouthed him on "The View," he came back at her, with a vindictive zeal that even surprised me. In fact, he continued to trashed O'Donnell for years afterward. I was convinced something was wrong with Trump at that point.

Fast forward to 2011, at a White House dinner, when Obama humiliated him, after Trump openly tweeted about questioning if Obama was even a US citizen.  You could tell Trump was livid, and I am convinced from that day on, he wanted to become President of the USA, not to better the country, or for any honorable intentions, but to stick it to Obama.  He succeeded. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 21, 2019, 07:09:44 pm
I personally thought something was wrong with Donald Trump around 2007.  After Rosie O'Donnell bad-mouthed him on "The View," he came back at her, with a vindictive zeal that even surprised me. In fact, he continued to trashed O'Donnell for years afterward. I was convinced something was wrong with Trump at that point.

Fast forward to 2011, at a White House dinner, when Obama humiliated him, after Trump openly tweeted about questioning if Obama was even a US citizen.  You could tell Trump was livid, and I am convinced from that day on, he wanted to become President of the USA, not to better the country, or for any honorable intentions, but to stick it to Obama.  He succeeded.

How did he "stick it to Obama"? Two terms and you're done under the constitution. Trump has only stuck it to himself by revealing how stupid he is, especially compared to Obama.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 22, 2019, 11:11:44 am
How did he "stick it to Obama"? Two terms and you're done under the constitution. Trump has only stuck it to himself by revealing how stupid he is, especially compared to Obama.
He is 'sticking it to Obama' by undoing (or trying to undo) many of the things Obama accomplished.

He's dismantaling Obamacare (he didn't get the full repeal he wanted, but he's attacked things like the Individual mandate, which could possibly kill it in the long run.) He's working on repealing some of the financial regulations that were brought in under Obama. And he's attacked DACA.

This is of course in addition to his attacks on Obama's reputation... taking credit for an economic boom that had started under Obama, claims of an ISIS victory, etc.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 22, 2019, 11:21:31 am
Fast forward to 2011, at a White House dinner, when Obama humiliated him, after Trump openly tweeted about questioning if Obama was even a US citizen.  You could tell Trump was livid, and I am convinced from that day on, he wanted to become President of the USA, not to better the country, or for any honorable intentions, but to stick it to Obama.  He succeeded.
Minor nitpick....

The White House Correspondents dinner (where Obama roasted Trump) was in April 2011. However, Trump had been openly questioning Obama's citizenship since at least March of 2011 (and may have been working behind the scenes to promote birtherism long before that.)

So, it was not a case of 'Obama insults Trump at dinner... Trump tries to get revenge". It was a case of "Trump insults Obama... Obama responds... Trump gets mad that Obama responded". Which of course makes Trump look even more petty.

https://www.politico.com/story/2011/03/donald-trump-birther-051473
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 22, 2019, 11:30:37 am
He is 'sticking it to Obama' by undoing (or trying to undo) many of the things Obama accomplished.

He's dismantaling Obamacare (he didn't get the full repeal he wanted, but he's attacked things like the Individual mandate, which could possibly kill it in the long run.) He's working on repealing some of the financial regulations that were brought in under Obama. And he's attacked DACA.

This is of course in addition to his attacks on Obama's reputation... taking credit for an economic boom that had started under Obama, claims of an ISIS victory, etc.

Yes he still can't leave McCain alone over that thumbs down he did on "repeal and replace", and I guess we all saw his little map he had in hand and was showing off to reporters about how he had accomplished with ISIS. He would likely be better off if he got past all that and instead highlighted the current economy, as long as he avoided the skyrocketing debt incurred under his tax breaks. He can't seem to get chips off his shoulders. Hell, he's even still trying to stick it to Hillary.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 22, 2019, 11:48:37 am
And as regards this McCain thing, we all know who is having the last laugh there. :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 22, 2019, 12:11:48 pm
He would likely be better off if he got past all that and instead highlighted the current economy, as long as he avoided the skyrocketing debt incurred under his tax breaks.
Well, the skyrocketing debt. And the increasing trade deficit. And a stock market that, after a long run-up lasting around a decade, is currently stick in a holding pattern, with the Dow bouncing around the  25000 point range for the past year.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenroberts/2019/03/06/for-u-s-trade-2018-was-a-record-setter-new-data-shows-but-china-trade-war-prevented-one/#668b67bb15ea

But at least GDP growth is strong! Well, except for the fact that the Fed in the U.S. has been lowering forecasts for GDP growth.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/20/fed-leaves-rates-unchanged.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 22, 2019, 12:35:14 pm
Well, the skyrocketing debt. And the increasing trade deficit. And a stock market that, after a long run-up lasting around a decade, is currently stick in a holding pattern, with the Dow bouncing around the  25000 point range for the past year.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenroberts/2019/03/06/for-u-s-trade-2018-was-a-record-setter-new-data-shows-but-china-trade-war-prevented-one/#668b67bb15ea

But at least GDP growth is strong! Well, except for the fact that the Fed in the U.S. has been lowering forecasts for GDP growth.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/20/fed-leaves-rates-unchanged.html

And as the old saying goes, "everybody loses in a trade war".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 22, 2019, 01:16:09 pm
And hey we can all relax and turn the heat up. Andrew Wheeler, the current head of the EPA who was appointed by Trump, has said we don't have to worry about global warming for at least 50 years. Don't be concerned by the fact he was previously a lobbyist for a coal company, and that Murray Coal who he worked for wrote a "healthy" check to Trumps election campaign fund. So I don't see any evidence for conflict of interest, and we're assured there insignificant evidence of global warming. I'm sure the folks in Mozambique will be glad to hear that. Now I have to go to the basement and install another sump pump.


Mr Wheeler peviously lobbied for Murray Energy, a coal company that donated $300,000 to the president's inauguration fund

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/andrew-wheeler-trump-epa-coal-climate-change-senate-murray-energy-global-warming-a8731781.html

Here's more:

“On the climate change issue, it is an important issue that we have to be addressing and we are addressing it,” Wheeler said. “But most of the threats from climate change are 50 to 75 years out.” Instead of climate change, Wheeler argued that the EPA’s efforts would be better spent focusing on cleaning up water in other countries. “We have 1,000 children die every day worldwide because they don’t have safe drinking water,” he said. “That’s a crisis I think we can solve.”

https://newrepublic.com/article/153359/seductive-stupidity-andrew-wheeler


 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 22, 2019, 04:05:42 pm
Breaking News:

The Mueller report is out. Let's see where this goes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 22, 2019, 04:08:15 pm
Breaking News:

The Mueller report is out. Let's see where this goes.

You better not be lying.  I just peed a little.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 22, 2019, 04:08:46 pm
Looks like you're not.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 22, 2019, 04:09:54 pm
Looks like you're not.

I guess it's up to Bill Barr what the public gets to see of it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 22, 2019, 11:33:41 pm
Mueller was a marine in Vietnam.  Won a medal for heroism.  Then he became a lawyer, and worked his way up.  People who are smart, tough, and ethical are awesome.

Eager to hear the findings.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 23, 2019, 05:59:14 am
Mueller was a marine in Vietnam.  Won a medal for heroism.  Then he became a lawyer, and worked his way up.  People who are smart, tough, and ethical are awesome.

Eager to hear the findings.

I have a feeling it won't be satisfying.  The Trump progeny are outside executive privilege and nothing came of them... and they are in the heart of anything that would have happened.  I suspect the evidence is lacking.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 23, 2019, 11:40:47 am
I hope at least the AG allows the full report to be made public, or if not, that Mueller is subpoenaed to testify before congress, and in the open. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 23, 2019, 12:38:26 pm
Sure but at this point can anything damage him politically?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 23, 2019, 12:46:40 pm
It could well provide grounds for impeachment. And then of course there are the SDNY issues that he has to deal with next.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 23, 2019, 01:16:33 pm
It could well provide grounds for impeachment. And then of course there are the SDNY issues that he has to deal with next.

Impeachment would be after 2020 at this point which means the Dems need to win the house back.  A tepid report, or non-published Mueller report could push the Republicans up in 2020.  The country that was stupid enough to elect him is definitely stupid enough to re-elect him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 23, 2019, 01:35:31 pm
The Trump progeny are outside executive privilege and nothing came of them... and they are in the heart of anything that would have happened.  I suspect the evidence is lacking.

stay tuned... other districts in the mix. The Mueller office was "smallish", particularly in relation to main Justice... of note, key prosecutors that Mueller brought in have simply gone back to their prior jobs - with expectations of accompanying hand-off's of particular cases to the districts. Some of those jurisdictions aren't federal - and Trump has no pardon option over state-level convictions.

what's key is the Mueller investigation was most successful... most indictments/guilty pleas in the shortest of time-frames. What's hilarious is reading Trumpkins "spiking the ball" (before the report is actually released/read) - and - somehow they ignore the breadcrumbs... like just last week there was a move to push Gates sentencing forward... cause he's still cooperating in other cases!

(https://foreignpolicymag.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/1_mueller_graphic_final-1.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 23, 2019, 01:39:51 pm
Impeachment would be after 2020 at this point which means the Dems need to win the house back.  A tepid report, or non-published Mueller report could push the Republicans up in 2020.  The country that was stupid enough to elect him is definitely stupid enough to re-elect him.

They could start hearings on impeachment any time but the dems pretty much know they won't get it through the senate, so I think a lot of them would prefer using their power in the house to use subpoenas to drag appropriate people before congress to give testimony under oath. I'm sure they have some vacant jail cells available for other Trumpsters who are not yet behind bars. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 23, 2019, 02:26:27 pm
The family not being in cuffs at this point... not being brought in for anything... I dunno.  I have a bad feeling.

Hey - we all want it to happen.  Even Conservatives think he's bad for politics, if they don't want jim jailed ....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 23, 2019, 03:07:51 pm
I have a feeling it won't be satisfying.  The Trump progeny are outside executive privilege and nothing came of them... and they are in the heart of anything that would have happened.  I suspect the evidence is lacking.

I agree it will be underwhelming.  We won't and can't even hear the whole report, but we'll get a sense of it, there's too much pressure on the AG to not give us the gist.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 23, 2019, 03:48:59 pm
I agree it will be underwhelming.  We won't and can't even hear the whole report, but we'll get a sense of it, there's too much pressure on the AG to not give us the gist.

Yes there are likely sections of it that will need to be redacted due to security concerns, but beyond that I'm betting it will deliver more than just the gist. Polls indicate ~90% of Americans want the full report made public. There will likely be some serious blowback if people feel they are being hoodwinked, and Mueller could well find himself under oath in front of congress. Apparently there is a bit of a delay as the AG continues to go over the report. I can wait until tomorrow I guess. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 23, 2019, 04:46:27 pm
I have to wonder why, if Trump is so sure that the Mueller report is nothing but a "witch hunt" and there is not "there there", why is he all of a sudden so silent now he knows the report is complete. That's very uncharacteristic of Trump. Perhaps his handlers down in Florida ripped the phone from his hands and gave him a golf club to play with and advised him that an endless string of tweets might not be a good idea right now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 23, 2019, 07:54:07 pm
Stole his phone and changed the password.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 24, 2019, 01:39:40 pm
I wish somebody would lite a fire under Bill Barr's arse and get his summary conclusion laid out. I'm tired of watching shots of Trump roaming around with a golf club. If Barr decideds to hide shyte for his boss, then lets get the subpoenas in the works.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 24, 2019, 03:18:29 pm
So far what I'm hearing is that Mueller, in his report, has said I won't indict and I won't exonerate, so he's handed the mantle to the DOJ. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 24, 2019, 03:18:54 pm
NO COLLUSION
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on March 24, 2019, 03:24:25 pm
NO COLLUSION

No direct evidence of collusion between Trump and Russia.
Very high probability of obstruction of justice.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 24, 2019, 04:05:09 pm
No direct evidence of collusion between Trump and Russia.
Very high probability of obstruction of justice.

And I wanna hear what Mueller actually wrote, not how Barr represented it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 24, 2019, 05:34:54 pm
WOW. Gazillions of witnesses and warrants.  Nothing showing collusion.  I'm pretty surprised.  All the campaign's connections with Russia are still really odd and suspicious.

The beat will drum on, investigations will keep going until most are satisfied the truth has come to light.  Democrats must be like...da fuq??!

There's never been such a massive attempt by so many to take down a POTUS.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 24, 2019, 05:35:55 pm
This begs the question:  was Trump right, was this a witch-hunt?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 24, 2019, 05:45:23 pm
WOW. Gazillions of witnesses and warrants.  Nothing showing collusion.  I'm pretty surprised.  All the campaign's connections with Russia are still really odd and suspicious.

The beat will drum on, investigations will keep going until most are satisfied the truth has come to light.  Democrats must be like...da fuq??!

There's never been such a massive attempt by so many to take down a POTUS.

Not sure what you are trying to say there but let me remind you, the Trump special investigation is one of the shortest since they have had them. Heard of Bill Clinton have you?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 24, 2019, 05:47:40 pm
So there should be no problem with making the report public. Right?
Mueller didn't recommend more indictments, that doesn't mean he didn't find evidence, just not enough press charges.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 24, 2019, 08:29:57 pm
No direct evidence of collusion between Trump and Russia.
Very high probability of obstruction of justice.

such fine word parsing... by Mueller himself... if you accept the AG Barr statement summation, which reads:
Quote
As the report states: "The investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities"
... I guess the formal acknowledgement that Manafort passed off polling data to that 'Russian dude'... that isn't the Russian government, proper!


Trump's man Barr! --- Pelosi & Schumer issue statement that includes phrasing pointing out Barr's, "history of bias against the Mueller investigation... not a neutral observer"
(https://i.imgur.com/nSECaOK.png)

and this didn't stop Barr from being confirmed (by the Senate Republican majority) - go figure: Barr authored memo last year ruling out obstruction of justice (https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/24/politics/barr-memo-mueller/index.html?no-st=1553464930)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 24, 2019, 10:30:43 pm
Now it looks like Trump might have just have been a useful idiot to the Russians.  They had something in common, a hatred of Obama and Clinton, and Putin maybe could have simply used Trump to their favour, especially to prevent Hillary from being elected and have a Russia-friendly POTUS.

I saw pundits on TV saying Trump may also have still been compromised and blackmailed by Russia, which could explain why Trump defended Russia/Putin over the intel of the CIA/FBI.

Who knows really.  It's all speculation fodder.  Hopefully some kind of truthful narrative is able to be constructed when this is all done.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on March 25, 2019, 08:31:19 am
Liberal Media needs to STFU about this now. They have egg on their face.

I would like to see the full report. But if Jared and Don Jr. didn't getting snared in the investigation like the rest of the indictments we already had, I doubt it contains a gotcha moment.

The Dems can investigate this all they want but the only way they win in Trump created narrative is beating him in 2020. They need to put their heads down and make THAT happen. Impeaching Trump is a pipe dream, Pelosi knows that already.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 25, 2019, 09:10:34 am
Here is an excellent Twitter thread discussing Barr and the Mueller report. There’s a lot of misinformation floating  around so I encourage everyone to read it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1109913558333210629
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on March 25, 2019, 09:29:09 am
God I love Twitter.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 25, 2019, 10:20:00 am
God I love Twitter.
Sarcasm?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 25, 2019, 10:49:54 am
I agree it will be underwhelming.  We won't and can't even hear the whole report, but we'll get a sense of it, there's too much pressure on the AG to not give us the gist.
Pressure from who?

Trump and the rest of the GOP are catering to the republican base only. They do not care what Democratic voters or independents think. And the republican base is willing to accept pretty much anything that Trump says.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 25, 2019, 10:59:55 am
The family not being in cuffs at this point... not being brought in for anything... I dunno.  I have a bad feeling.
I do too.

Even if Trump is protected (on account of the DOJ having a policy not to indict a sitting president), you would figure that others in the Trump administration (such as Trump Jr.) would might have been subject to more attention from Mueller.

I guess we'll need to see what the report says (or, if its not released, what the house democrats are able to learn if they talk to Mueller). I am assuming Mueller actually ran his investigation in a fair and unbiased manner. But,  I would like to learn:

- Why the Trump tower meeting (including Trump Jr.s comment about how he "loves" what the Russians might provide), and the lies/cover-ups about it, don't rise to the level of conspiracy, perjury, or obstruction.

- Why the suspicious timing of some of Trump's announcements (he claimed there was something "big" coming right before a Wikileaks dump) doesn't count as collusion

- Why his firing of Comey (that he admits was politically motivated) isn't considered "obstruction"

Perhaps Mueller found that all those things have innocent explanations. Or perhaps he feels they were crimes but would not likely result in a successful prosecution
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 25, 2019, 11:20:41 am
I know everyone is probably engrossed in the aftermath of the Mueller report... but I think it should be noted that the Trump administration has just broken a record:

From: https://www.axios.com/federal-budget-monthly-deficit-record-ecaf2f50-89a8-4124-bb9a-103b078a8933.html
The U.S. posted its largest monthly budget deficit on record in February with a gap of $234 billion, breaking the previous $231.7 billion mark set in February 2012, Bloomberg reports.

I think all Trump supporters can give themselves a pat on the back. Without their tireless work, the U.S. deficit would not be anywhere near the level it is.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 25, 2019, 11:26:18 am
All we have so far if Barr's hastily scripted 4 page summation of Mueller's report. And there is very good reason to believe Barr is heavily biased given previous comments he has made re Trump and others. The one phrase that he did include from Mueller is "this does not exonerate (Trump)" with regard to obstruction. I expect the pressure will remain for the complete report be made available to the public, of course minus any necessary security redactions. Trump babbled on before getting on the plane to fly back from a round of golf that the report was "complete exoneration" and of course he tried to also claim "absolutely no collusion" with regard to the the Russians in the 2016 election. It may have been determined that he personally did not collude, it is already well known that there was Russian interference with that election and in Trumps favor. So once again, "how do we know when Trump is lying".....you know the rest.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 25, 2019, 12:17:51 pm
So Trump used to rant and rave calling Mueller's investigation nothing but a "witch hunt" and that Mueller, and others, would try and take him out with "bullshit". Now that he reads the report (or more likely has it read/explained to him) and hears he personally did not collude he now changes his tune to say Mueller has "acted honorably". So at least Trump is consistent with one thing, his hypocrisy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 25, 2019, 12:33:23 pm
Read the Twitter thread I posted.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on March 25, 2019, 12:36:12 pm
Sarcasm?

Serious - if you follow the right people, it's a great place for info and breaking news.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 25, 2019, 01:11:58 pm
So Trump used to rant and rave calling Mueller's investigation nothing but a "witch hunt" and that Mueller, and others, would try and take him out with "bullshit". Now that he reads the report (or more likely has it read/explained to him) and hears he personally did not collude he now changes his tune to say Mueller has "acted honorably". So at least Trump is consistent with one thing, his hypocrisy.
Well, technically we don't know what exactly it says about collusion and/or what trump may have heard.

The report could say "no evidence of collusion... the Trump campaign was just filled with incompetent dupes".

It could say "There was probably collusion but the evidence is not strong enough to guarantee a successful conviction".

Or it could say "Trump colluded. But since he's a sitting president and the DoJ has a policy of not charging a sitting president we won't do anything".

Trump of course could lie about what the report says ("No collusion!") and then take every possible step to suppress its findings.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 25, 2019, 01:43:33 pm
Well, technically we don't know what exactly it says about collusion and/or what trump may have heard.

The report could say "no evidence of collusion... the Trump campaign was just filled with incompetent dupes".

It could say "There was probably collusion but the evidence is not strong enough to guarantee a successful conviction".

Or it could say "Trump colluded. But since he's a sitting president and the DoJ has a policy of not charging a sitting president we won't do anything".

Trump of course could lie about what the report says ("No collusion!") and then take every possible step to suppress its findings.

As you say the DOJ operates under the precept that a sitting POTUS can't be indicted so let's leave that alone, even though some very close Trump contacts have already pleaded guilty to lying to FBI about their Russian connections related to the election. Trump's comments about "looking at the other side" could well signal he is going to try to fight back to at least keep the full report under wraps. Continued waste of time and taxpayer dollars.
I doubt this case is anywhere near over. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 25, 2019, 05:07:45 pm
Here is an excellent Twitter thread discussing Barr and the Mueller report. There’s a lot of misinformation floating  around so I encourage everyone to read it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1109913558333210629

So we've been fed fake news?  ;)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 27, 2019, 01:15:19 pm
Trump is now expressing his support for a Saudi proposal to have an armed air marshall program on its national airline, including international flights. Let me think about that, armed Saudis on big planes flying into New York city. Why does that seem to tweak my memory?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 27, 2019, 04:02:00 pm
Trump got all pissy pants over John McCain going thumbs down on repeal and replace with regard to the ACA, but now he has come up with his own plan. Except he is only addressing the "repeal" part, but he has no "replace" plan. I guess they will start wheeling patients out into the streets soon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 28, 2019, 08:47:04 am
Trump got all pissy pants over John McCain going thumbs down on repeal and replace with regard to the ACA, but now he has come up with his own plan. Except he is only addressing the "repeal" part, but he has no "replace" plan. I guess they will start wheeling patients out into the streets soon.
But in the 2016 election, Trump promised that he had a 'great' health care plan! That it would be cheaper and better than Obamacare! He wouldn't have lied to us, would he?

"Nobody knew health care could be so complicated."
- Donald J. Trump
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 28, 2019, 08:51:26 am
At least someone in the Trump administration has their priorities right...

From: https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/27/politics/betsy-devos-special-olympics-cuts/index.html
Education Secretary Betsy DeVos stood firm on her proposal to cut funds for the Special Olympics...

I mean... if someone is born disabled, its their own fault, and they should be willing to pick themselves up by their own bootstraps!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 28, 2019, 02:25:00 pm
The governor of Puerto Rico is now so PO'ed with Trump over his assistance in dealing with the hurricane Maria devastation he has gone public in an interview saying he "would punch the bully in the mouth". Trump lied about hos much money has been spent on reparations saying it was $20 billion when apparently it's actually about $1.2 billion. I'm not for violence but I think I could handle seeing Trump get a good poke. He bettr glue that hair piece on tight if he goes down there to throw some paper towels around to victims.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/28/politics/ricardo-rossell-donald-trump-puerto-rico-funding/index.html

In an exclusive interview with CNN, Puerto Rico Gov. Ricardo Rosselló said he would not sit back and allow his officials to be bullied by the White House.
"If the bully gets close, I'll punch the bully in the mouth," Rosselló said. "It would be a mistake to confuse courtesy with courage."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 29, 2019, 11:24:10 am
The governor of Puerto Rico is now so PO'ed with Trump over his assistance in dealing with the hurricane Maria devastation he has gone public in an interview saying he "would punch the bully in the mouth". Trump lied about hos much money has been spent on reparations saying it was $20 billion when apparently it's actually about $1.2 billion.
Apparently they have paper towels... what more do they want?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 29, 2019, 11:35:24 am
Apparently they have paper towels... what more do they want?

Yeah and I bet 1.2 billion buys a lot of paper towels.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 29, 2019, 02:41:44 pm
News just announcing that the DOJ will release the Mueller report Mid April. Should be interesting unless of course it is so heavily redacted it leaves us no further informed than Barr's 4 pager. We shall see.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 29, 2019, 03:30:28 pm
AG Barr letter to Nadler/Graham:

(https://i.imgur.com/9k4oVsF.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 01, 2019, 02:07:35 pm
Just hearing that Melania Trump spends most of her time hunkered down with her son and her parents at Mara Lago and not with Donald at the WH. Can you blame her?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 02, 2019, 11:43:12 am
Trump got all pissy pants over John McCain going thumbs down on repeal and replace with regard to the ACA, but now he has come up with his own plan. Except he is only addressing the "repeal" part, but he has no "replace" plan. I guess they will start wheeling patients out into the streets soon.
Not to worry... he has a plan to replace Obamacare. He's deferred it to Republican senators (who have claimed that there is no group working on a health care alternative. But don't worry... they will have something in place for after the 2020 elections.

From: https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/02/politics/trump-health-care-2020-election/index.html
President Donald Trump on Monday night backed away from his push for a vote on an Obamacare replacement until after the 2020 elections...Trump said Thursday he's asked Republican senators to work on a replacement to the Affordable Care Act, but no such group appears to exist. Multiple Republican senators who Trump name-checked said they were not a part of a working group...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 02, 2019, 12:02:26 pm
Not to worry... he has a plan to replace Obamacare. He's deferred it to Republican senators (who have claimed that there is no group working on a health care alternative. But don't worry... they will have something in place for after the 2020 elections.

From: https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/02/politics/trump-health-care-2020-election/index.html
President Donald Trump on Monday night backed away from his push for a vote on an Obamacare replacement until after the 2020 elections...Trump said Thursday he's asked Republican senators to work on a replacement to the Affordable Care Act, but no such group appears to exist. Multiple Republican senators who Trump name-checked said they were not a part of a working group...

I guess by now we have all gotten used to Trump's "bull in a china shop" buffoonery, but having him play shell games with health care must be very troubling for many people. The GOP becoming "the party of healthcare" is just another lie to add to Trumps burgeoning record of such.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 02, 2019, 01:11:03 pm
that only lasted one news-cycle... apparently McConnell et al took Trump to the woodshed!

Trump punts on health care until after the 2020 election (https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/02/politics/trump-health-care-2020-election/index.html)

on edit: whoops... already mentioned - the waldo apologizes profusely... mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 02, 2019, 01:32:04 pm
Hey I'm gonna take your healthcare away from you for now, but even if you get sick or injured, hang in there and make sure you stumble to a voting booth in 2020. And if you reelect me, I may think about something or other to get you some band-aids. And if you need to mortgage your house in the meantime to cover those medical costs, Trump Lending Corp. will get you a few bucks and hopefully we won't decide to foreclose before I get my plan together to replace that Obama thingy that kept you alive until now. Now I have to get in AF1 and go play golf. Bye.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 03, 2019, 11:51:13 am
Hey I'm gonna take your healthcare away from you for now, but even if you get sick or injured, hang in there and make sure you stumble to a voting booth in 2020. And if you reelect me, I may think about something or other to get you some band-aids.
Not only re-elect Trump, but the U.S. electorate also has to give solid majorities in the Senate and House in order to get the wonderful Trump-care.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 03, 2019, 12:00:30 pm
Not only re-elect Trump, but the U.S. electorate also has to give solid majorities in the Senate and House in order to get the wonderful Trump-care.

Well yes, if he gets back full control of congress he can achieve as much in the first two years of his next term as he has in the first two of the current one. Maybe another truck load of paper towels he can toss around again in Puerto Rico. They'll still likely be needing them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 04, 2019, 03:31:30 pm
Trump was going to close the Mexican border "next week", oh but now it's not until next year. "Ping" and the duck turns a 180, "Ping" and the duck turns a 180 back. Reminds me of fun I used to have as a kid at the CNE in Toronto.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on April 05, 2019, 03:41:10 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3ZmVRhW0AIm-8z.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 06, 2019, 04:54:29 pm
Apparently Trump called asylum seekers 'animals'.

Dan Rather

Quote
The President likening human beings to animals is despicable. I've seen this playbook before, words weaponized into bloodshed. His sneering rhetoric must be denounced. All who remain silent stand on the side of an insidious and dangerous scapegoating of our fellow human beings.

https://twitter.com/DanRather/status/1114368182330974208

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 06, 2019, 05:17:07 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3ZmVRhW0AIm-8z.jpg)

Hey you forgot, Trump has recently announced that wind turbines also cause cancer.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on April 07, 2019, 12:08:02 pm
Apparently Trump called asylum seekers 'animals'.

Dan Rather

https://twitter.com/DanRather/status/1114368182330974208
We had a member on our forum who regularly used pejoratives to describe asylum seekers. This is why you don't debate with the alt-right. There's nothing to debate with them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 09, 2019, 06:09:54 am
We had a member on our forum who regularly used pejoratives to describe asylum seekers. This is why you don't debate with the alt-right. There's nothing to debate with them.

Since I have got 'up close' with them on Facebook, I have witnessed first-hand that the best of the people making these arguments are simply naive dupes.  So now I cut them off, call them out, show how wrong they are and sometimes ridicule their ideas.  It's a small effort but it's my part and everyone should be doing this - otherwise their numbers will look bigger than they are.

Now it turns out Trump is telling border guards to break the law.  We are indeed at the edge of true fascism.. not the hyperbolic kind but random arrests, cancelling of elections, hard censorship of news.  The institutions are all that is holding America back.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 09, 2019, 10:26:55 am
Now it turns out Trump is telling border guards to break the law. 
On a related not, Director of Homeland Security Kirstjen Nielsen has resigned.

Rumors are that she was pressured out by some of the more hard-line racists (like Miller), because she objected to some of the proposals that were being made (some of which were illegal).

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kirstjen-nielsen-resigning-dhs-secretary-expected-to-offer-resignation-today-live-updates-2019-04-07/

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/08/politics/trump-family-separation-el-paso-kirstjen-nielsen/index.html

I think that says a lot about the Trump administration... a woman who defended the policy of locking children in cages was seen as "too soft".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 09, 2019, 04:00:39 pm
Laws are a PITA.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on April 12, 2019, 04:39:57 am
I heard Ex-Democratic Vice President Joe Biden may want to run against Trump in the 2020 Election.

Or, as children know him as: "Creepy Uncle Joe"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ-YjGmpO4Q&t=249s

So, in 2020, we may have a pervert running against a right-wing lunatic.  Ain't America Great.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 12, 2019, 12:43:08 pm
So, in 2020, we may have a pervert running against a right-wing lunatic.  Ain't America Great.
Correction, you will have a pervert running against a right-wing lunatic who is also a pervert.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 12, 2019, 12:51:54 pm
Correction, you will have a pervert running against a right-wing lunatic who is also a pervert.

Yes and I would say an uninvited kiss on the back of the head is somewhat less offensive than "grabbing women by the p***y because I'm a star".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on April 12, 2019, 01:10:53 pm
Yes and I would say an uninvited kiss on the back of the head is somewhat less offensive than "grabbing women by the p***y because I'm a star".

I completely disagree. Talking about something is one thing.

It's much worse, since these are small children.  You neglected to mention the fondling of the girls.

As bad as Trump is, I have never heard of him grope children. Biden on the other hand does it in public on national TV.  I read that he routinely gropes women and young girls in private, and a secret security member was suspended for shoving Biden, after he groped his fiancee. 

Why can't Bernie Sanders run again? I'd vote for him. Biden gives me the creeps.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 12, 2019, 01:52:39 pm
I completely disagree. Talking about something is one thing.

It's much worse, since these are small children.  You neglected to mention the fondling of the girls.

As bad as Trump is, I have never heard of him grope children. Biden on the other hand does it in public on national TV.  I read that he routinely gropes women and young girls in private, and a secret security member was suspended for shoving Biden, after he groped his fiancee. 

Why can't Bernie Sanders run again? I'd vote for him. Biden gives me the creeps.

In any case, Biden is too old, Trump is too ridiculous, hopefully some new blood will be able to take the helm.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on April 12, 2019, 02:49:06 pm
I read ...

Was that in an AMI publication... or something less credible?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 12, 2019, 02:51:19 pm
Sanders is running again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 12, 2019, 03:44:26 pm
I'm rather surprised at how well Mayor Pete is doing in the polls. He's 37 and openly gay, which I would have previously thought would be issues that would completely derail his aspirations. He seems to speak very intelligently (certainly a breath of fresh air from Trump) and while I doubt he makes it to the WH this time around, his support may be indicative of some enlightenment south of the border.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 13, 2019, 05:52:12 pm
rendition travelocity!

(https://i.imgur.com/3ggvGWC.jpg)

Trump 2016 campaign => cheered on WikiLeaks more than 140 times - loudly, and at great length
Trump today =>  “I know nothing about WikiLeaks. It’s not my thing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 14, 2019, 02:55:55 pm
And as often happens on such issues, just as the GOP was trying to play down the comments from the WH as to busing immigrants/asylum seekers into cities to try and hit back at his political opponents, Trump gets on twitter and confirms that's exactly what he is thinking of. Sarah Sanders etal must have some of the worst cases of whiplash ever suffered.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 14, 2019, 06:03:13 pm
I just suffered through listening to an interview with Kelly Anne Conway. She of course did her inevitable "Chatty Cathy" wind up doll attempt to deflect  around just about every issue the interviewer queried her with actual quotes from her boss. Does anybody else feel their BP rising when ever she opens her yap?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 14, 2019, 09:23:49 pm
Not surprising the Trump is a big fan of "Tricky Dick" Nixon. I wonder if he will share the same fate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 15, 2019, 11:16:01 am
Just hearing that Barr is set to deliver his next version of the Mueller report on Thursday. I expect it will be another popcorn event, but at least we may get some insight as to Barr's color coding for redactions.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 15, 2019, 02:22:34 pm
I completely disagree. Talking about something is one thing.

It's much worse, since these are small children.  You neglected to mention the fondling of the girls.
Probably because there have been no credible reports that I am aware of that show that Biden acted inappropriately with children.
Quote
As bad as Trump is, I have never heard of him grope children.
What about him barging into the dressing rooms for the Miss Teen USA contests, when some of the candidates were naked/near naked?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-former-miss-arizona-tasha-dixon-naked-undressed-backstage-howard-stern-a7357866.html

Quote
Why can't Bernie Sanders run again? I'd vote for him. Biden gives me the creeps.
Ummm... he is running again (as another poster indicated.)

Seriously, you don't even know that Sanders (one of the most famous left-wing politicians in the U.S.) had already entered the race?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 15, 2019, 02:30:37 pm
Just hearing that Barr is set to deliver his next version of the Mueller report on Thursday. I expect it will be another popcorn event, but at least we may get some insight as to Barr's color coding for redactions.
I don't know why anyone would be suspicious at all about Barr. Not like he's done anything nefarious before.

https://www.justsecurity.org/63635/barrs-playbook-he-misled-congress-when-omitting-parts-of-justice-dept-memo-in-1989/
On Friday the thirteenth October 1989....news leaked of a legal memo authored by William Barr....This one did because it was issued in “unusual secrecy” and concluded that the FBI could forcibly abduct people in other countries without the consent of the foreign state....When the OLC opinion was finally made public long after Barr left office, it was clear that Barr’s summary had failed to fully disclose the opinion’s principal conclusions.

Oh.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 16, 2019, 10:06:47 pm
Quite a list of former and current members of the Trump team spoke with Mueller during his investigation. The suggestion now is that he may "go bonkers" on Thursday when the report comes out. I thought he already was bonkers but he may well outdo himself. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 17, 2019, 05:00:51 pm
Looks like Fat Kim is once again thumbing his nose at Trump as sat. photos show activity at one of his nuclear sites with missiles being shipped in by train. On top of that kim and putin are planning to meet as early as next week and of course putin would like to disrupt the "friendship" between donald and kim. Trump may find himself having to go hat in hand back to the usual US ally's. You know, countries that kind of at least try to practice democracy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 18, 2019, 11:59:41 am
Looks like Fat Kim is once again thumbing his nose at Trump as sat. photos show activity at one of his nuclear sites with missiles being shipped in by train.
Well, if it wasn't for the democrats being so mean and nasty, Trump wouldn't have been so distracted so he would have been able to make a deal.

At least that's how I predict Trump and the Republicans might spin it. Its B.S., but Trump supporters don't really engage in the type of critical thinking that would make them doubt the claim.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 18, 2019, 12:17:25 pm
Just listening to various "talking heads" trying to unravel the Mueller report. So far my head is spinning, but it seems to thoroughly quash Trump's comments that it "exonerates" him. Could be yet another noisy day at the WH I'm guessing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 18, 2019, 12:32:01 pm
Mueller report is out.

So far, it looks like there are a lot of "they might have done something illegal but we can't say for certain or prove it in a court of law".  Its certainly doesn't follow the "no collusion" narrative that Trump has been pushing.

From: https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/18/politics/mueller-report-release/index.html

On Collusion:
"Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in the election interference activities," the report said.

On the Trump tower meeting:
Mueller's team declined to prosecute Donald Trump, Jr., and members of the campaign for campaign finance violations for their participation in the June 2016 meeting at Trump Tower, in part, because they couldn't prove that they "willfully" violated the law.

On Sessions' perjury WRT Russian contacts:
They also didn't go after then-Sen. Jeff Sessions for making false statements or committing perjury to Congress...in part because of the inexact wording of the questions.

About obstruction:
In his evaluation of whether Trump obstructed justice, Mueller looked at a number of issues and areas involving the President and his aides focused on whether they were attempting to curtail the investigation....Mueller did not make a "traditional prosecutorial judgment" on the obstruction question, Barr said. Instead, Barr said he concluded the evidence was "not sufficient to establish that the President committed an obstruction-of-justice offense."... Mueller did not make a "traditional prosecutorial judgment" on the obstruction question, Barr said. Instead, Barr said he concluded the evidence was "not sufficient to establish that the President committed an obstruction-of-justice offense."

Why Trump was never interviewed:
The special counsel believed it had the authority to subpoena Trump, but decided against doing so because it would delay the investigation, according to the report.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 18, 2019, 12:45:47 pm
So far I'm seeing plenty of fuel for further criminal investigations, such as re: obstruction, as well as for impeachment should congress decided to go that route. Trump got away from being questioned by Mueller simply because of how long Trump could hnave delayed things by trying to fight the subpoena.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 18, 2019, 01:31:19 pm
One statement that stands out to me is " unable to conclude that no criminal conduct occurred". That combined with reports that many of Trump's close aides at the WH simply refused to carry out his orders because they believed it would be illegal to do so tells me this "witchhunt" as Trump likes to call it is far from over.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on April 18, 2019, 04:50:10 pm
The actual report makes Trump out to be more of a piece of sh*t than Barr's summary, that's for sure.

At least we found out it looks like he tried to collude, even if possibly not successful.  Congress may argue otherwise.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 18, 2019, 08:47:15 pm
He's a slimy piece of ****, quel surprise.

Sample:

Quote
According to the report, Trump asked McGahn why he told Mueller’s investigators about wanting the special counsel fired. McGahn said he was required to, and that conversation between himself and the president wasn’t protected by attorney-client privilege.

“What about these notes?” Trump demanded. “Why do you take notes? Lawyers don’t take notes. I never had a lawyer who took notes.”

McGahn said he takes notes because he is a “real lawyer” and that’s what lawyers do, to which Trump replied, “I’ve had a lot of great lawyers, like Roy Cohn. He did not take notes.”

https://qz.com/1599520/mueller-report-says-trump-called-his-lawyer-a-lying-bastard/

Cohn was such a reviled figure that he was written in as the villain in the play Angels in America.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 19, 2019, 01:12:14 pm
Trump must be seething to find out that people who were close to him in the WH refused to carry out his orders they deemed to be illegal. He should actually be grateful to them but he has certainly laid out some solid grounds for impeachment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 19, 2019, 02:04:09 pm
We see now that Trump kept his mouth shut while he ran to his chopper to get the hell out of town to go play a little golf with a like minded right wing idiot Rush Limbaugh. And now that Sarah Sanders has been caught red handed lying by the Mueller report, maybe she should go down and caddy for them. That way the US can keep track of the whereabouts of their biggest, high ranking liars.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 19, 2019, 05:04:37 pm
Could be an interesting evening at the Conway house. George has referred to Trump as "a cancer that congress must remove from office". Kelly Anne and her boss probably won't like that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on April 19, 2019, 07:07:22 pm
If Trump wasn't such a crooked lying arrogant insulting divisive racist misogynist bastard he could have made a good POTUS.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 19, 2019, 07:38:14 pm
If Trump wasn't such a crooked lying arrogant insulting divisive racist misogynist bastard he could have made a good POTUS.

You should log on to mlw and explain that to BC. You know, the Canada troll?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 19, 2019, 07:51:26 pm
If Trump wasn't such a crooked lying arrogant insulting divisive racist misogynist bastard he could have made a good POTUS.

Yabut, that's what he is so he couldn't make a good POTUS.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 21, 2019, 04:03:18 pm
Looks like Trump has a new group of buddies helping build a type of "wall" down at the border. Nothing wrong with a few vigilantes toting weapons here and there along the border eh? "United Constitutional Patriots"

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fbi-arrests-larry-mitchell-hopkins-leader-of-united-constitutional-patriots-border-militia

Recent video footage released by UCP shows two members holding what appear to be semi-automatic rifles near immigrants, many of them children.

The group also peddles conspiracy theories and produces a radio show where members spread information about QAnon, and accuse migrants of associating with ISIS. Hopkins has also claimed that president Trump has personally asked him about ‘Muslim immigration.’

UCP and Hopkins claim to work with Border Patrol, which has publicly denied doing so. Border Patrol agents sometimes appear in the periphery of the groups videos, which show camo-clad UCP members interacting with migrants at the southern border
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on April 22, 2019, 04:15:03 pm
#ImpeachDonaldTrump is trending.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 22, 2019, 04:22:34 pm
#ImpeachDonaldTrump is trending.

I suspect the dems. know very well impeachment wouldn't get through the senate, but keeping the issue in the headlines is a fun way of making Trump dance the funky chicken.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on April 22, 2019, 04:26:38 pm
I suspect the dems. know very well impeachment wouldn't get through the senate, but keeping the issue in the headlines is a fun way of making Trump dance the funky chicken.

How on earth can Bill Clinton be impeached but not Trump?

Trump also has Alzheimers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 22, 2019, 04:34:11 pm
How on earth can Bill Clinton be impeached but not Trump?

Trump also has Alzheimers.

Perhaps the dems are looking back at how Clinton's ratings soared after his impeachment and don't want that backfire to happen again with Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on April 22, 2019, 04:44:53 pm
Perhaps the dems are looking back at how Clinton's ratings soared after his impeachment and don't want that backfire to happen again with Trump.

Bill Clinton was an awesome President.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 22, 2019, 05:28:52 pm
Bill Clinton was an awesome President.

Who can forget about those fantastic scandals and the way he screwed over the poor.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on April 22, 2019, 05:50:50 pm
Who can forget about those fantastic scandals and the way he screwed over the poor.

How did he "screw over the poor?"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 23, 2019, 12:40:16 pm
How did he "screw over the poor?"

Trade Deals, cutting Welfare...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 23, 2019, 02:10:58 pm
I see Putin and Fat Kim have a meeting scheduled for next Thursday. I wonder if Trump's name will come up. Let's recap, Trump says he has fallen in love with Kim, and he also seems to trust Vlady over his own intelligence community. I suspect his name will indeed come up among giggles as they proceed with ideas to keep Trump where they want him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 24, 2019, 11:03:24 am
Re: Bill Clinton as president...
Quote
How did he "screw over the poor?"
Trade Deals,
What makes you think trade deals "screw over the poor"?  International trade generally is beneficial to all parties. It makes some products cheaper (which benefits poor people), and opens up new markets for some locally produced items.

Remember, the Smoot-Hawley tariff act from the 1930s was very protectionist, and its widely seen as making the great depression much worse than it could have been.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot%E2%80%93Hawley_Tariff_Act
Quote
cutting Welfare...
Yes, the welfare system was reformed during the Clinton years (with time limits placed on benefits, bringing in 'workfare', etc.) But, it should be noted that Clinton did have to work with a largely republican congress (and he had already vetoed other attempts to change welfare). 

One of Trump's many faults (in addition to his bigotry, criminality, inability to learn, etc.) is the fact that he is unable/unwilling to establish any sort of bipartisanship... to recognize that you need to compromise. Clinton signing a bill to limit welfare benefits may not have been very "progressive", but I see it more of an acknowlegment that he does sometimes need to compromise with people with opposing viewpoints.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 24, 2019, 11:34:08 am
Trade Deals,
What makes you think trade deals "screw over the poor"?  International trade generally is beneficial to all parties. It makes some products cheaper (which benefits poor people), and opens up new markets for some locally produced items.

Remember, the Smoot-Hawley tariff act from the 1930s was very protectionist, and its widely seen as making the great depression much worse than it could have been.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot%E2%80%93Hawley_Tariff_ActYes, the welfare system was reformed during the Clinton years (with time limits placed on benefits, bringing in 'workfare', etc.) But, it should be noted that Clinton did have to work with a largely republican congress (and he had already vetoed other attempts to change welfare). 

One of Trump's many faults (in addition to his bigotry, criminality, inability to learn, etc.) is the fact that he is unable/unwilling to establish any sort of bipartisanship... to recognize that you need to compromise. Clinton signing a bill to limit welfare benefits may not have been very "progressive", but I see it more of an acknowlegment that he does sometimes need to compromise with people with opposing viewpoints.

And it seems many of the activities that sprang from the faults you point out, especially the criminality, have gone somewhat unnoticed due to the focus on the Mueller investigation and collusion/obstruction. "Emoluments" is certainly one thing that seems to be hiding in plain sight.But there are many more.

Consider the following: The president promotes his corporate brands regularly and in plain sight, while a hotel he owns mere blocks from the White House rakes in profits from patrons, including foreign leaders, with business before the federal government. Cabinet secretaries reportedly violate ethical guidelines and conflict-of-interest rules left and right by spending lavishly on office furniture and official travel, or by failing to properly divest their business holdings. The president’s son-in-law obtains a security clearance over the objections of senior officials, and then—along with other top White House aides—conducts official government business using personal, unsecured devices and accounts. The president himself refuses to relinquish his personal cellphone, raising concerns that he is having conversations vulnerable to interception by hackers or foreign governments.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/03/mueller-non-russia-trump-scandals-congress/585643/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 24, 2019, 11:42:15 am
And it seems many of the activities that sprang from the faults you point out, especially the criminality, have gone somewhat unnoticed due to the focus on the Mueller investigation and collusion/obstruction.
Yes, it is a problem when the Trump administration is so corrupt and scandal-ridden than it becomes difficult to focus on everything that they are doing wrong.

At least some of those issues (such as Emoluments) are actually going through the courts (which might have more impact than investigations by Congress and/or the media.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 24, 2019, 11:54:34 am
Yes, it is a problem when the Trump administration is so corrupt and scandal-ridden than it becomes difficult to focus on everything that they are doing wrong.

At least some of those issues (such as Emoluments) are actually going through the courts (which might have more impact than investigations by Congress and/or the media.)

Lets hope the courts can bring focus back to these issues and apply the appropriate penalties for any convictions. I'm venturing a guess his base doesn't give a crap what the hell he does and will vote for him again regardless.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 24, 2019, 09:43:48 pm
Trump demonstrates his ignorance once again by tweeting that if impeachment is used to remove him from office, he will fight it all the way to the Supreme Court. He fails to understand that the SC has nothing to do with impeachment and that the power to proceed lies with congress. Giuliani apparently hasn't done a very good job of advising his client. Qu'elle surprise!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 25, 2019, 09:16:00 pm
Trump did go on the record as supporting the idea of reopening coal mines during his campaign. Now the question is, did he do that because the Russians told him to, or did they show their support because he asked them to. In any case, oops, that went off the rails.

https://thinkprogress.org/russia-coal-trump-campaign-mueller-report-ad5a583fd32e/

In October 2016, Pennsylvania social media accounts promoted “Miners for Trump” rallies around the state with a picture of a gritty coal miner. The rallies coincided with a series of presidential campaign rallies by then-candidate Donald Trump.

It turns out the social media promotions were not created by U.S. coal miners, however. Instead, they were the work of the Internet Research Agency (IRA), a Russian troll farm, according to special counsel Robert Mueller’s recently released report on his investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 26, 2019, 08:12:16 am

It turns out the social media promotions were not created by U.S. coal miners, however. Instead, they were the work of the Internet Research Agency (IRA), a Russian troll farm, according to special counsel Robert Mueller’s recently released report on his investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election.

A mentally ill person gets compound problems because on top of the mental illness, they don't have the capacity to assess and respond to other problems facing them.  This is what has happened to the USA. 

They will be ravaged by poverty and disease and increasingly will believe that conspiracies and immigrants are the cause.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 26, 2019, 11:56:26 am
I see Trump is over kissing ass once again at the NRA today. I guess he wants to make sure he gets another 30 million from them for his reelection campaign. Meanwhile high school students can study up the second amendment when they are not busy doing "active shooter" drills.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 26, 2019, 04:07:51 pm
Trump has now scaled up his description of the Mueller investigation from a "witch hunt" to now calling it an "attempted coup". He can get away with saying that in front of the NRA I guess.
Let's hope his dim witted supporters including the NRA gun nuts, don't take his ridiculous comments and do something even more stupid where people get hurt.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 27, 2019, 03:12:04 pm
Well there we go. Right in the immediate wake of Trump's ass kiss speech to the NRA promising to help ease gun reguations there is a shooting in a synagouge in California. I wonder if any of his supporters can put 2 and 2 together. Probably not.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 27, 2019, 03:44:05 pm
Synagogue?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 27, 2019, 03:47:50 pm
Synagogue?

Oops, my bad. Synagogue is right.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on April 27, 2019, 03:53:20 pm
Synagogue?

I believe synagouge was a reference to the membership dues.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 27, 2019, 04:25:05 pm
I believe synagouge was a reference to the membership dues.

What do you mean ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 27, 2019, 08:46:09 pm
I can certainly see why Trump arranged to be in Wisconsin and not anywhere near the WHCD toinight. He has provided them with SO much damning material. I wonder if he'll tune in?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on April 28, 2019, 01:57:55 pm
What do you mean ?

Unlike pass the collection plate, many (most) synagogues have mandatory membership dues. There has been some backlash against this, I believe in recent years a few have tried a "pay what you want" model. Some Christian churches used to have private pews, or even galleries for wealthier members of the congregation that contributed to building/upkeep.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 28, 2019, 03:02:14 pm
We see now that while many of us were tuned into the WH Correspondents Dinner, Trump was in Wisconsin spouting incendiary lies about abortion laws in that state.

"The baby is born," Trump said. "The mother meets with the doctor. They take care of the baby. They wrap the baby beautifully, and then the doctor and the mother determine whether or not they will execute the baby. I don't think so."

I can easily imagine there will be renewed attacks on abortion clinics and the women who need them by the knuckle dragging morons who support this this scumbag. Too bad his mother didn't have an abortion.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/28/politics/trump-rally-wisconsin-abortion/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 29, 2019, 11:36:15 am
Trump "achieves" a new milestone.

The Washington Post is out with an updated count of President Trump's false and misleading statements since Inauguration Day. And it shows that Trump has surpassed the 10,000 mark. It's a milestone, but not a cause for celebration. Whatever the opposite of popping champagne is, do that, I guess?
"The president continues to say false or misleading statements at an unbelievable pace," The Post's fact-checker-in-chief, Glenn Kessler, said on CNN's "New Day" Monday morning.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/29/media/reliable-sources-04-28-19/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 29, 2019, 12:52:44 pm
Well there we go. Right in the immediate wake of Trump's ass kiss speech to the NRA promising to help ease gun reguations
Keep in mind that one of the things Trump is supposedly doing is to get the U.S. to withdraw from the International Arms Control Treaty. The problem is, that treaty only deals with international arms sales, and doesn't affect the 2nd amendment at all.

Oh, and is this a good time to mention that about the time Trump was talking about how great the NRA is, Maria Butina was sentenced for her role in using the NRA to promote Russian influence?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/26/politics/maria-butina-sentencing/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 29, 2019, 01:06:52 pm
Keep in mind that one of the things Trump is supposedly doing is to get the U.S. to withdraw from the International Arms Control Treaty. The problem is, that treaty only deals with international arms sales, and doesn't affect the 2nd amendment at all.

Oh, and is this a good time to mention that about the time Trump was talking about how great the NRA is, Maria Butina was sentenced for her role in using the NRA to promote Russian influence?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/26/politics/maria-butina-sentencing/index.html

I get a kick out of her comment that her crime ironically arose from her attempts to improve relations between the two countries, when it's more likely her crime was based on her attempts to improve relations between two dictators, one established, the other aspiring.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 29, 2019, 04:44:45 pm
Rod Rosenstein has now formally announced his resignation date.
Hey another opportunity for Trump to "FILL the Swamp"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Goddess on April 30, 2019, 02:24:30 pm
We see now that while many of us were tuned into the WH Correspondents Dinner, Trump was in Wisconsin spouting incendiary lies about abortion laws in that state.

"The baby is born," Trump said. "The mother meets with the doctor. They take care of the baby. They wrap the baby beautifully, and then the doctor and the mother determine whether or not they will execute the baby. I don't think so."

I can easily imagine there will be renewed attacks on abortion clinics and the women who need them by the knuckle dragging morons who support this this scumbag. Too bad his mother didn't have an abortion.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/28/politics/trump-rally-wisconsin-abortion/index.html

I have difficulty believing Trump's claims about his sexual prowess when he's this clueless about female anatomy and OB/GYN issues.  :-\
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on May 02, 2019, 09:00:44 am
I have difficulty believing Trump's claims about his sexual prowess when he's this clueless about female anatomy and OB/GYN issues.  :-\

Trust me at his age he needs a surrogate stand in what with all the Kentucky fried chicken he eats clogging any blood flow he has. That said,  I think will win the next election. From the disarray now being witnessed in the Democratic Party, he can easily win enough votes in the electoral college at this point in time. If the Mueller report did not give them the opportunity to impeach him nothing will.

Say what you want but the  amount of Teflon on him is not an accident. Beneath all the chaos of American politics are interest groups. The best analysis one could guess is that Obama was a CIA creation candidate designed to woo over the Middle East traditional enemies for a specific business interests network. That agenda  failed miserably and that network's designated successor was dethroned by the  competitor network a mix of other businesses and US military intelligence which threw their support to Trump as the Republicans imploded. Hilary's ties to China and Benghazi forced the US military ontelligentsia to back an alternative business network  who feel China not Russia is the biggest security risk these days to US business interests. Also say what you want about Trump and I certainly will, the US economy is doing far better than under Obama.

So the Democrats now have gone back to Biden now in a  pale attempt to go back to the Obama network. Say what you want about Trump and I sure as hell do, his foreign policy and America first jingoism and chauvinism plays to middle America and that with his economic record is enough to get him re-elected. Even the flirtation with Putin  or Kim won't harm because  never has there been so much lead time and opportunity  to character assassinate and dispose of a US President than with Trump but he remains untouched and that  speaks loudly to the network that props him and rejected  Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush or Paul Ryan as Republican leader.

There does not appear to be any new  Democrat candidate at this point capable of taking him down or who wants to try become the new puppet.Biden is as senile and dithering as Trump and equally as sexually repugnant to women  which neutralizes either candidate in the women vote which helps Trump not Biden. Biden thinks blacks love him, bullshit. He is as stupid as Octopus-Cortez. They both went in front of black audiences imitating a black accent when speaking  and that gave a strong message to the black community about the phony blackface they play to pander to Democrat minorities. Also know one in the Bronx is fooled by the Cortez shtick she is a poor Latino from the Bronx. No one in the Bronx buys that bullshit on the streets. JLo she is not. Her parents were not poor, they were boring, hard working suburbanites who did NOT live in some poor Bronx inner city make believe world she has fabricated. As for Omar, she represents a constituency in Deerborn, Michigan of angry, radical Muslims who hate the US but demand all its privileges as rights while pissing on it. Those are not mainstream Democrats. In fact mainstream Democrats have always been  as a general rule very pro military which is why more Demo Presidents have gone to war than Republicans. Cortez and Omar  fan the flames of right wing extremism in blacks and whites. and clearly  do not understand there is a strong military history in the Latino and black communities who  are the most likely to turn out to vote and they will vote for Trump over Biden and support his wall as they feel no different about illegal immigrants than the whites do  who support Trump on that issue. The anti immigrant sentiment does not run across colour lines as the Demos think and never has. The polls constantly show that.





Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 02, 2019, 06:06:20 pm
Bill Barr is sucking on his boss's you know what, and also lying for him under oath. That's a criminal offense and he should be thrown in jail. He can make up a nice cozy cot for Trump when he gets there.

I've been getting a kick out of looking over at redneck shytehole web and giggling over the likes of BC and taxme stumbling around trying to protect the swamp scum.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on May 03, 2019, 08:55:23 am
Bill Barr appears to be a Trump shrill and apologist and to have misled the Congress but nothing positive  will come of it for Democrats at this point. Every  attack against  Trump seems to make him more popular.  Trump loves the angry responses. He is playing classic under-dog role. In politics when you are the under-dog, you win. Trump as role playing as victim not victimizer. On Camera the Demos  need to be a lot more calm and collected catching people lying or engaged in inconsistencies if they want to gain anything. I am not sure who advises them but their public image could not be worse these days. Take a look back at the Watergate sessions.  The work when it was on t.v. was measured. calm, focused. Today's politicians have bought into Trump's bellicose screaming and yelling. When you scream and yell no one listens to the message and people who have already made up their minds were never listening anyways. If you want to win over new followers their needs to be a level of calmness. Nader is far too emotional and so is Pelosi. They need to tone down the righteous tones of indignity and be clear and precise and not detract from the lies with their screaming and anger.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on May 03, 2019, 10:21:39 am
He is playing classic under-dog role. In politics when you are the under-dog, you win.

Trump is only the underdog in the pea brained minds of his followers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 03, 2019, 11:40:00 am
Trump is only the underdog in the pea brained minds of his followers.

Very true. I find it difficult to see how dense his followers must be not to catch onto the endless lies and just plain nonsense that he spouts. I can only guess what keeps that ~40% in line is that the rebounding economy (which he inherited btw) continues to show good numbers. Of course there are other numbers that don't seem to get the same fanfare such as what Trump's tax cuts to corporations has done to the national debt. Ah hell, we'll just leave that to the kids!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 03, 2019, 11:40:56 am
Also say what you want about Trump and I certainly will, the US economy is doing far better than under Obama.
That is.... debatable.

While things like unemployment may be lower under Trump than Obama and the stock market higher, keep in mind that Obama started with an economy that was in the middle of a deep recession that started under Bush, and it took time to dig the U.S. out of the hole. When Trump took over from Obama, he took over an economy that had already recovered, and had benefitted from years of economic expansion. (And while the debt did increase under Obama, much of that was related to the recession; near the end of his tenure he was greatly reducing the deficit. On the other hand, Trump has greatly expanded the deficit, and he has done so during a time of economic expansion, the exact time when the government should be trying to reduce the debt.

A few other notes:
- Obama had quarterly GDP growth that exceeded Trump's multiple times (for example in 2014 and 2011)
- Job growth actually slowed the first year Trump was in power compared to the last year of Obama's tenure. And while job growth has increased slightly in the past year (largely fueled by increased deficits) job growth under Obama exceeded that of Trump multiple times

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/ces0000000001?output_view=net_1mth

Now, it is true that Trump is polling fairly well on economic issues. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Trump is the actual reason for the current U.S. economic successes, he's just able to claim credit for it. But it should be noted that even with the economy doing (relatively) well, his approval rating is still below 50%.

Quote
There does not appear to be any new  Democrat candidate at this point capable of taking him down or who wants to try become the new puppet.
Well, lets see... in a recent set of opinion polls that deal with potential election matchups...
Beto O'Rourke leads Trump by 10 points
Sanders and Biden lead trump by 6 points each
Harris leads Trump by 4 points
Granted, it is still early in the election cycle... A lot can change between now and 2020, and once clear front-runners are established, the additional media attention can change these figures significantly (both for the better or worse). But, polling suggests Trump could be vulnerable.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/441950-orourke-holds-double-digit-lead-on-trump-in-head-to-head-matchup-cnn-poll

Quote
Biden is as senile and dithering as Trump and equally as sexually repugnant to women  which neutralizes either candidate in the women vote which helps Trump not Biden.
No, he's not. Biden may be old, and may make regular gaffs, but I don't see any evidence that he has significant mental deficiencies like Trump does.

And yes, the whole 'touchy-feely' biden does give some fodder for the republicans, but given the fact that Trump's record on womanizing is even worse, I can't see it being a major weapon in the republican's campaign. "Don't vote for the guy who rubbed a woman's shoulders... vote for the guy who slept with a **** star while his wife was at home with a newborn baby. He grabbed her **** good!"
Quote
Biden thinks blacks love him, bullshit.
Well, he is doing better with minorities than other Democratic candidates.

From: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll/minorities-older-adults-boost-biden-atop-2020-democratic-field-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKCN1S016T
According to the poll, 24 percent would vote for Biden over 19 other declared and potential candidates.... Thirty-two percent of adults who are 55 years old and older said they would vote for Biden over other candidates. And 30 percent of nonwhite adults, including about 4 in 10 African-Americans, said they would back Biden for the nomination.

So Biden is getting more support among black voters than he is from white voters.
Quote
Those are not mainstream Democrats. In fact mainstream Democrats have always been  as a general rule very pro military which is why more Demo Presidents have gone to war than Republicans.
I'm not really sure what conclusions anyone can make about "the military" based on the number of wars involved.

First of all, many conflicts that the U.S. has been involved in were not initiated by the U.S. (For example, Truman and FDR may have been democrats, but WW2 and Korea were going to happen regardless of who the president was.)

Secondly, starting a war doesn't necessarily make a person "pro-military" (especially if a war is seen as unnecessary), since any war risks the lives of American servicemen.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 03, 2019, 02:21:42 pm
Donald had a nice hour long chat with Putin today and it seems they're still great buddies. Never mind that Vlady fully supports Maduro while the US for the most part is not supposed to favor dictators. Oh well, I'm sure all Trump really wanted to accomplish today was to invite the same Russian meddling that got Donny elected in the first place.





 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on May 03, 2019, 04:25:18 pm
The bar association has been asked to investigate the Attorney General. Time to disbar consigliare Barr.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 03, 2019, 04:35:33 pm
The bar association has been asked to investigate the Attorney General. Time to disbar  consigliare Barr.

Agreed. Send Barr packing back to private practice so he and Giuliani can fart around trying to protect their client and Trump can pay the bills instead of the US taxpayer.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 03, 2019, 04:51:22 pm
The bar association has been asked to investigate the Attorney General. Time to disbar consigliare Barr.
I agree that Attorney General Barr is a dishonorable scumbag who shouldn't be anywhere near the white house.

But, the call to have him investigated is coming from Democrats in congress. At this point we don't know how the bar association will respond (if they even respond at all).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 03, 2019, 05:01:01 pm
I agree that Attorney General Barr is a dishonorable scumbag who shouldn't be anywhere near the white house.

But, the call to have him investigated is coming from Democrats in congress. At this point we don't know how the bar association will respond (if they even respond at all).

Hopefully they will. It's certainly an opportunity to actually help drain the swamp.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 03, 2019, 05:13:07 pm
Trump, Putin discussed Mueller report and agreed no collusion, White House says

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-putin-discussed-mueller-report-agreed-no-collusion-white-house-n1001706

Whew, that's A RELIEF.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 03, 2019, 05:27:48 pm
Trump, Putin discussed Mueller report and agreed no collusion, White House says

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-putin-discussed-mueller-report-agreed-no-collusion-white-house-n1001706

Whew, that's A RELIEF.

How can you tell Sarah Sanders is lying...yep, her lips are moving. Trump can't even get his **** together to agree with his own sec. of state as to what is happening with regard to who's doing what regarding Venezuela. I guess Putin told Trump what to say on that issue during their recent phone chat.



President Trump on Friday claimed Russian President Vladimir Putin is not "looking at all to get involved" in Venezuela, contradicting some of his top advisers who have condemned Moscow for bolstering embattled President Nicolás Maduro.

Trump spoke with Putin over the phone for more than an hour on Friday, and the two discussed North Korea, trade, the special counsel's investigation and the ongoing situation in Venezuela

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/442045-trump-contradicts-his-own-advisers-says-putin-not-looking-to-get
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 09, 2019, 12:21:17 am
Just listening to the speech Trump gave in Florida earlier today. I can't imagine anyone being so stupid, ignorant, gullible as to not cringe of th3e endless flow of complete and utter HORSESHIT that is coming from his mouth, yet again. But he does have a few idiots around him that are still shouting "lock 'er up" I assume on prompt. I am actually hoping his ever ass kissing of the NRA to relax US gun laws even more will result in a fitting, poetic end for him before he does even more damage to the world.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on May 12, 2019, 02:58:30 pm
I like following Ari Melber because he usually has a good legal view of current affairs. Occasionally however he also has political opinions, and this one is right on point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh1EWXqucwU
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 13, 2019, 04:00:08 pm
Trump now cozies up to yet another red necked, right wing dictator, this time the President of Hungary. So let's see, we can now add him to the group that so far includes Putin, MBS, Duterte, and of course Fat Kim who he is "in love" with. Let's get that swamp filled!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 13, 2019, 04:41:40 pm
Let's get that swamp filled!
How dare you accuse him of wanting to "fill the swamp!"

Why just look at all the people Trump has gotten rid of in his attempts to clean up government:

- Flynn... fired for lying
- Rob Porter... allegations of domestic abuse
- John McEntee... under investigation for financial crimes
- Scott Pruitt... Wasted taxpayers money on unnecessary trips and funnelled government money to family members

And now they are all gone! See, Trump is cleaning up government!

(Just ignore the fact that those were all people Trump hired in the first place.)


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 13, 2019, 06:06:07 pm
How dare you accuse him of wanting to "fill the swamp!"

Why just look at all the people Trump has gotten rid of in his attempts to clean up government:

- Flynn... fired for lying
- Rob Porter... allegations of domestic abuse
- John McEntee... under investigation for financial crimes
- Scott Pruitt... Wasted taxpayers money on unnecessary trips and funnelled government money to family members

And now they are all gone! See, Trump is cleaning up government!

(Just ignore the fact that those were all people Trump hired in the first place.)

And apparently no tweets respecting Melania on Mothers Day. No nookie for him I bet. tsk, tsk.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 15, 2019, 07:47:34 pm
And here goes Trump turning back the clock a few years to try and overturn Roe V Wade and make sure women have to go to back alleys if they need an abortion. I have 3 words for trump, and his supporters GO **** YOURSELVES. Pardon my angry vocabulary.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 16, 2019, 11:46:07 am
And here goes Trump turning back the clock a few years to try and overturn Roe V Wade and make sure women have to go to back alleys if they need an abortion. I have 3 words for trump, and his supporters GO **** YOURSELVES. Pardon my angry vocabulary.
Don't worry.... people with money will always be able to travel to another country to get an abortion.

Its only the poorer women who will have trouble getting an abortion. And for them its their own fault... should have spent their time earning money instead of having sex.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 16, 2019, 12:14:17 pm
Don't worry.... people with money will always be able to travel to another country to get an abortion.

Its only the poorer women who will have trouble getting an abortion. And for them its their own fault... should have spent their time earning money instead of having sex.

Well so far they can still travel just as far as another state, but now that the Republicans have been able to stack the deck at the SCOTUS, there is a bit of a spotlight on Roe vs Wade.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 16, 2019, 01:45:36 pm
Don't worry.... people with money will always be able to travel to another country to get an abortion.

Its only the poorer women who will have trouble getting an abortion. And for them its their own fault... should have spent their time earning money instead of having sex.

Or making sure they vote.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 16, 2019, 03:17:24 pm
Well so far they can still travel just as far as another state,

I read that there are penalties for doing that now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on May 16, 2019, 03:22:13 pm
Its only the poorer women who will have trouble getting an abortion. And for them its their own fault... should have spent their time earning money instead of having sex.

Wow.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 16, 2019, 03:47:58 pm
Wow.

Did you miss the sarcasm perhaps?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 16, 2019, 05:21:38 pm
Trump once suggested that Barack Obama was going to start a war with Iran in order to get reelected. Of course Obama got his second term without a war but guess what Donald is up to as he approaches election time.

The Pentagon recently presented a military plan to the president’s top national security aides that calls for up to 120,000 troops deploying to the Middle East and a potential crippling cyber-attack on Iran’s infrastructure should Iran speed up its nuclear program or attack U.S. forces.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/05/14/military-plans-to-counter-iran-include-possible-120000-troop-deployment-cyber-attack-nitro-zeus/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 16, 2019, 08:20:20 pm

The Pentagon recently presented a military plan to the president’s top national security aides that calls for up to 120,000 troops deploying to the Middle East and a potential crippling cyber-attack on Iran’s infrastructure should Iran speed up its nuclear program or attack U.S. forces.
 

You can bet he will push for the highest risk plan and eventually the generals will have to find a way to make it happen. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 16, 2019, 08:34:59 pm
You can bet he will push for the highest risk plan and eventually the generals will have to find a way to make it happen.

He'll probably just rip a (the) page from the Bush Iraq war plan and tweet that to the Pentagon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on May 16, 2019, 10:13:07 pm
Trump once suggested that Barack Obama was going to start a war with Iran in order to get reelected. Of course Obama got his second term without a war but guess what Donald is up to as he approaches election time.

The Pentagon recently presented a military plan to the president’s top national security aides that calls for up to 120,000 troops deploying to the Middle East and a potential crippling cyber-attack on Iran’s infrastructure should Iran speed up its nuclear program or attack U.S. forces.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/05/14/military-plans-to-counter-iran-include-possible-120000-troop-deployment-cyber-attack-nitro-zeus/

I would love to see this happen.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 16, 2019, 10:53:13 pm
I would love to see this happen.

Like war do ya?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on May 17, 2019, 08:21:26 am
Like war do ya?

Did you miss the sarcasm perhaps? (psst twice)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on May 17, 2019, 08:34:05 am
Is Trump still president? I've been living under a rock for a few months.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 17, 2019, 11:53:46 am
Quote
Quote
Its only the poorer women who will have trouble getting an abortion. And for them its their own fault... should have spent their time earning money instead of having sex.
Wow
Did you miss the sarcasm perhaps?
Yeah, should have included a tag at the end of it:

/sarcasm

or /trumpism
or /republicanism

Yes, anti-abortion laws do affect poor people more than the rich (since many poor people can't even travel out of the city to get an abortion, much less out of state/out of country). And yes, there is a tendency for republicans/evangelicals to "shame" women who get abortions. Hence my post (in which I thought the sarcasm was obvious.)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 17, 2019, 12:19:02 pm
Wow
Did you miss the sarcasm perhaps?

Yeah, should have included a tag at the end of it:

/sarcasm

or /trumpism
or /republicanism

Yes, anti-abortion laws do affect poor people more than the rich (since many poor people can't even travel out of the city to get an abortion, much less out of state/out of country). And yes, there is a tendency for republicans/evangelicals to "shame" women who get abortions. Hence my post (in which I thought the sarcasm was obvious.)

Further on this issue if I'm understanding what I've been hearing on the news regarding the new Alabama abortion law, it's the doctor who can get up to 99 years for performing the operation, but I don't hear what the woman gets for seeking it. Not that I think either one should face criminal charges, I prefer Canada's approach that this decision should be one made between a woman and her doctor. I understand the Alabama law allows for a legal abortion if the mothers life is threatened by continuing with the pregnancy. I somehow see the courts getting clogged up with the anti crowd trying to question every abortion case to support how the mother's life was in jeopardy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on May 17, 2019, 01:28:09 pm
Wow
Did you miss the sarcasm perhaps?

Yeah, should have included a tag at the end of it:

/sarcasm

or /trumpism
or /republicanism

Yes, anti-abortion laws do affect poor people more than the rich (since many poor people can't even travel out of the city to get an abortion, much less out of state/out of country). And yes, there is a tendency for republicans/evangelicals to "shame" women who get abortions. Hence my post (in which I thought the sarcasm was obvious.)

My apologies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 17, 2019, 01:52:49 pm
My apologies.
Yes you should apologize. My feelings were extremely hurt. I actually cried for 2 hours when I saw your post.

Or, maybe I'm just being sarcastic again.

Hey, these things happen. Not always easy to tell people's tone from just an internet post, and you may not be familiar with everyone's writing style.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on May 18, 2019, 08:11:17 am
Yes you should apologize. My feelings were extremely hurt. I actually cried for 2 hours when I saw your post.

Or, maybe I'm just being sarcastic again.

Hey, these things happen. Not always easy to tell people's tone from just an internet post, and you may not be familiar with everyone's writing style.


When I tell you to go phack yourself, I had no idea you'd get pregnant.









Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 21, 2019, 10:12:57 am
Some good news for the Democrats...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/21/politics/donald-trump-court-documents-release-democrats/index.html
...a federal judge ruled Monday that the President's longtime accounting firm Mazars must hand over his financial records...

On the other hand, Trump (and his Justice department) is preventing one of the former white house lawyers from testifying...

Trump ordered his former White House counsel Don McGahn not to honor a subpoena to testify about the Russia investigation -- escalating his show of defiance toward Congress. And McGahn confirmed that he would not show up for a hearing...

Trump will likely appeal the ruling regarding his financial records (although the judge in that case did not issue a 'stay', meaning the release supposedly has to be done in a few days, instead of waiting for any appeals.) McGhan may end up being arrested (congress has the authority to do that...), so that's probably going to be a bit messy.

In other news, both Trump and his son-in-law were flagged by Deutcsche bank for possible money laundering (but the case was never forwarded to the government.)

From: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-kushner-deutsche-bank-money-laundering-specialists-new-york-times-1.5142279
Anti-money laundering specialists at Deutsche Bank AG recommended in 2016 and 2017 that multiple transactions involving entities controlled by U.S. President Donald Trump and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, be reported to a federal financial crimes watchdog... five current and former Deutsche Bank employees, said executives at the German-based bank, which has lent billions of dollars to the Trump and Kushner companies, rejected their employees' advice.

That may be especially relevant because the same congressional committee that requested records from Trump's accounting firm (where they just won a legal case to have the records released) have also requested records from Deutsche bank.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on May 21, 2019, 11:16:59 am
If the House Democrats are never able to compel Trump and Co to do anything short of impeachment, and yet a Democrat wins the White House, a hilarious precedent has been set.

A Democrat Prez can say "Sod Off" to any attempt at Republican (assuming they control either Congressional chamber). I'm sure the hypocrisy will be palpable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 21, 2019, 11:23:22 am
Some good news for the Democrats...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/21/politics/donald-trump-court-documents-release-democrats/index.html
...a federal judge ruled Monday that the President's longtime accounting firm Mazars must hand over his financial records...

On the other hand, Trump (and his Justice department) is preventing one of the former white house lawyers from testifying...

Trump ordered his former White House counsel Don McGahn not to honor a subpoena to testify about the Russia investigation -- escalating his show of defiance toward Congress. And McGahn confirmed that he would not show up for a hearing...

Trump will likely appeal the ruling regarding his financial records (although the judge in that case did not issue a 'stay', meaning the release supposedly has to be done in a few days, instead of waiting for any appeals.) McGhan may end up being arrested (congress has the authority to do that...), so that's probably going to be a bit messy.

In other news, both Trump and his son-in-law were flagged by Deutcsche bank for possible money laundering (but the case was never forwarded to the government.)

From: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-kushner-deutsche-bank-money-laundering-specialists-new-york-times-1.5142279
Anti-money laundering specialists at Deutsche Bank AG recommended in 2016 and 2017 that multiple transactions involving entities controlled by U.S. President Donald Trump and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, be reported to a federal financial crimes watchdog... five current and former Deutsche Bank employees, said executives at the German-based bank, which has lent billions of dollars to the Trump and Kushner companies, rejected their employees' advice.

That may be especially relevant because the same congressional committee that requested records from Trump's accounting firm (where they just won a legal case to have the records released) have also requested records from Deutsche bank.

My understanding of this latest court order is in regard to a subpoena to hand over tax returns from years before he was in the WH so he cannot invoke "executive privilege" to block this order. The endless dog and pony show of Trump's term continues apace.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 21, 2019, 02:33:01 pm
I'm hearing now the DOJ is willing to offer up at least a portion of the Mueller report IF there is an agreement to back off from investigating further into Trumps' personal lawyer (who is currently referred to as the attorney general Barr). Sounds to me like a bit of a bidding war on criminal activity assets.
(Or should that be "****")?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 21, 2019, 04:27:27 pm
I'm hearing now the DOJ is willing to offer up at least a portion of the Mueller report IF there is an agreement to back off from investigating further into Trumps' personal lawyer (who is currently referred to as the attorney general Barr). Sounds to me like a bit of a bidding war on criminal activity assets.
(Or should that be "****")?
Not sure how good of a deal that would be for the Democrats.

Congressional committees may be entitled to see the report anyways (depending on how the courts rule), but parts will probably be classified (i.e. can't be released to public, because of issues related to privacy or ongoing investigations.)

So, they would be giving up something of value (the chance to cross-examine Barr) in order to get something that they should have access too anyways but can't even distribute to the public.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 21, 2019, 04:35:24 pm
Not sure how good of a deal that would be for the Democrats.

Congressional committees may be entitled to see the report anyways (depending on how the courts rule), but parts will probably be classified (i.e. can't be released to public, because of issues related to privacy or ongoing investigations.)

So, they would be giving up something of value (the chance to cross-examine Barr) in order to get something that they should have access too anyways but can't even distribute to the public.

That's kinda where I was going. I think the Dems. should stick to their guns, especially with this latest court ruling, and continue to chase Barr and hope to see the Mueller report as unredacted as it can be with regard to accepted privacy provisions pertaining to such documents.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on May 21, 2019, 05:08:46 pm
My understanding of this latest court order is in regard to a subpoena to hand over tax returns from years before he was in the WH so he cannot invoke "executive privilege" to block this order.

One would think that there is no executive privilege applicable to tax returns.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 21, 2019, 05:16:10 pm
One would think that there is no executive privilege applicable to tax returns.

Their system seems to be backfiring somewhat under the current system but I suspect the founding fathers hadn't anticipated such a wreck less, stupid **** ever being voted into power such as they have now. Hopefully Americans, and even the corrupt EC system will come to their senses and turf the jerk in 2020.
Please feel free to pass this on to bc04 in the redneck site as he loves to try to defend his protege. :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 21, 2019, 05:27:18 pm
One would think that there is no executive privilege applicable to tax returns.

Gerald Ford is the only one I see in recent history who did not release full returns but he did provide a summary of his tax returns. Donald of course doesn't want us all to see if it wasn't for his daddy he'd be kicking cans down the road.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on May 21, 2019, 11:56:37 pm
Gerald Ford is the only one I see in recent history who did not release full returns but he did provide a summary of his tax returns. Donald of course doesn't want us all to see if it wasn't for his daddy he'd be kicking cans down the road.

I tend to disagree. Sociopaths usually have a higher intelligence quotient, and are master manipulators. They feel no compassion for their fellow man.  Intelligent people with no scruples, advance higher in the corporate World than people with stronger moral values.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 22, 2019, 12:24:34 am
I tend to disagree. Sociopaths usually have a higher intelligence quotient, and are master manipulators. They feel no compassion for their fellow man.  Intelligent people with no scruples, advance higher in the corporate World than people with stronger moral values.

Are you trying to suggest Trump has a higher IQ than say, the room temperature? I think you'll get a lot of scathing blowback if you are. haha
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on May 22, 2019, 06:59:07 am
Are you trying to suggest Trump has a higher IQ than say, the room temperature? I think you'll get a lot of scathing blowback if you are. haha

Whatever you think of Trump, he definitely has a higher IQ than 90% of the population.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 22, 2019, 10:27:45 am
I tend to disagree. Sociopaths usually have a higher intelligence quotient, and are master manipulators. They feel no compassion for their fellow man.  Intelligent people with no scruples, advance higher in the corporate World than people with stronger moral values.
I'm not completely sure about that.

I do remember reading something that pointed out that on average, sociopaths aren't necessarily smarter than average. They may have a little more success, but that is more due to their lack of scruples than their actual abilities. The idea that all sociopaths are a sort of Hannibal Lector/Dextor evil genius may be a myth. (I'll try to dig up the reference if I can.)

Quote
Whatever you think of Trump, he definitely has a higher IQ than 90% of the population.
Again, something I doubt.

I consider Trump a sort of "forest gump" character... not particularly intelligent or competent at anything, but has managed to be successful due to luck/circumstance.

He appears wealthy because he was born into a rich family who financially supported him throughout many of his business failings. (Had he been born into a middle-class family, he would not be president or be seen as a "businessman"; instead, he would be working at a local McDonalds, asking people "Do you want a large fries with that? They're YUGE!")

He was able to maintain the appearance of wealth because of a combination of a failing of the legal system (financial crimes are not pursued as stringently has they should) and his inherited wealth (which allowed him to abuse the courts with various lawsuits.)

He became the republican nominee not because he was a particularly good politician but because of the republican clown-car primaries, which meant he could win some of the primaries despite having far less than 50% of the vote.

He became president due to a combination of the electoral college, russian interference, and a long-term republican (and Fox News) strategy to smear Hillary Clinton. Had any of those factors changed, he would have gone down to defeat.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 22, 2019, 10:55:10 am
Whatever you think of Trump, he definitely has a higher IQ than 90% of the population.

OMG, all one need do is listen to him speak. If it's any sort of involved speech he has to read it from a teleprompter and he reads like a ~grade 3 pupil. And then often when he goes off script he sounds like a bully in a school yard with his childish nick naming of his competitors etc. Compare that to the eloquence of say, Obama. You must think America is pretty dumb if you think he is smarter than 90% of them. Maybe what you meant was he is a more prolific liar than 90% of the population.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 22, 2019, 11:53:19 am
did anybody else catch Trump having a bit of a snit fit and walking out of a meeting in his office today and then proceeding to the Rose Garden to say basically "nothing more will happen on infrastructure until all investigations into him are stopped"? His nose is really out of joint it would seem. Pelosi said she "prayed for Trump and prayed for the US". It's so recent I can't see a link yet to post but there will be lots forthcoming I'm sure. Quite a moment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on May 22, 2019, 12:32:13 pm
OMG, all one need do is listen to him speak. If it's any sort of involved speech he has to read it from a teleprompter and he reads like a ~grade 3 pupil. And then often when he goes off script he sounds like a bully in a school yard with his childish nick naming of his competitors etc. Compare that to the eloquence of say, Obama. You must think America is pretty dumb if you think he is smarter than 90% of them. Maybe what you meant was he is a more prolific liar than 90% of the population.

I think your hatred of Trump blinds you from the fact that he gamed the system for decades, something most people would fail at.  Sociopaths typically have an IQ that is superior to the general population.  Trump would never have managed to manipulate the media, host a successful reality TV show, and become president of the United States, if he has a below normal IQ.  One would think that would be common sense.

There is evidence that Trump is suffering from early onslaught dementia.  That may account for some of his recent cognitive difficulties.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 22, 2019, 12:38:52 pm
I think your hatred of Trump blinds you from the fact that he gamed the system for decades, something most people would fail at.  Sociopaths typically have an IQ that is superior to the general population.  Trump would never have managed to manipulate the media, host a successful reality TV show, and become president of the United States, if he has a below normal IQ.  One would think that would be common sense.

There is evidence that Trump is suffering from early onslaught dementia.  That may account for some of his recent cognitive difficulties.

Trump has been not much more than a blowhard since day one and he'd have been **** up a number of times if daddy hadn't bailed him out. He became president not because of his IQ, but because of a gerrymandered EC. And look at his little cry baby antics of just this am.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on May 22, 2019, 01:16:04 pm

Trump has been not much more than a blowhard since day one and he'd have been **** up a number of times if daddy hadn't bailed him out
. He became president not because of his IQ, but because of a gerrymandered EC. And look at his little cry baby antics of just this am.

How would you explain Trump's success for the past 30 years?  Fred Trump passed away in 1999, and suffered from Alzheimer's Disease for the better part of the 90s. Daddy did not land him a hit reality TV series, or help him run for the US Presidency.  Besides, most US presidents come from privilege that 99% of the population would only dream of.  Why single out Trump?

I've noticed lately that many of Trump's detractors have become so obsessed with him, that they almost see the World in black and white. It has got to the point that if Trump eats bacon for lunch, people will smear him for it.  It is counter-productive.  It is further dividing America along party lines.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 22, 2019, 01:36:54 pm
How would you explain Trump's success for the past 30 years?  Fred Trump passed away in 1999, and suffered from Alzheimer's Disease for the better part of the 90s. Daddy did not land him a hit reality TV series, or help him run for the US Presidency.  Besides, most US presidents come from privilege that 99% of the population would only dream of.  Why single out Trump?

I've noticed lately that many of Trump's detractors have become so obsessed with him, that they almost see the World in black and white. It has got to the point that if Trump eats bacon for lunch, people will smear him for it.  It is counter-productive.  It is further dividing America along party lines.

If trump is so "successful" why is there not a US bank that will loan him a dime? I'll tell ya why, because he defaulted on so many loans due to failed businesses and now even Duetshabank is suffering. I suspect Americans have become "obsessed" with him because he somehow got elected to an office which he is far from capable of properly administering. And then of course there is that lingering business of the fact he thinks he should be "able to grab women by the **** when you're a star" 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on May 22, 2019, 02:09:51 pm
If trump is so "successful" why is there not a US bank that will loan him a dime? I'll tell ya why, because he defaulted on so many loans due to failed businesses and now even Duetshabank is suffering. I suspect Americans have become "obsessed" with him because he somehow got elected to an office which he is far from capable of properly administering. And then of course there is that lingering business of the fact he thinks he should be "able to grab women by the **** when you're a star"

Bill Clinton did much worse than Trump, in that regard.

While Trump has had shady business dealings, you cannot deny he is a winner. He has been a celebrity for 40 years, has a successful Hotel chain, reality TV show, and is the most powerful man in the USA.  I'm not saying he is good for democracy, but you cannot deny he has been very successful in life.

Trudeau, on the other hand, is not cut out to be PM, and is arguably worse to Canada than Trump is to America.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 22, 2019, 02:12:59 pm
How would you explain Trump's success for the past 30 years?  Fred Trump passed away in 1999, and suffered from Alzheimer's Disease for the better part of the 90s.
As mentioned earlier...

- He benefited significantly from being the son of Fred Trump (both financially and in getting contacts)
- Much of his later success was a combination of 1) having resources he inherited to help him out, and 2) a willingness to engage in illegal activities which are not well policed.

Neither of those factors requires a significant amount of intelligence to accomplish.
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Daddy did not land him a hit reality TV series...
Trump did not develop the series, he was merely a participant. A prop. The real brains behind the series is Mark Burnett.
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...or help him run for the US Presidency.
His daddy may not have helped him run for president, but the Russians and Fox News sure did.
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Besides, most US presidents come from privilege that 99% of the population would only dream of.  Why single out Trump?
Because when one of the other presidents who came from wealth/privilege speak, they don't 1) lie pretty much constantly, 2) ramble on incoherently at times (often spouting bigoted rhetoric), and 3) has policies that will ultimately cause great harm to the U.S. (and ultimately the world)

Oh, and by the way, keep in mind that while Trump came from wealth:
- Obama's mother had an academic background
- Bill Clinton's father was a travelling salesman. His mother went to nursing school, and his step-father owned a car dealership.
- Jimmy Carter's mother was a nurse, and his father was (at one time) a travelling salesman and a small business owner
All 3 of those presidents have what I would consider a middle-class upbringing.... they weren't exactly born into wealth and privilege, unlike Stubby McBonespurs.
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I've noticed lately that many of Trump's detractors have become so obsessed with him, that they almost see the World in black and white. It has got to the point that if Trump eats bacon for lunch, people will smear him for it.
Trump is... unique.

If someone had been (for example) a Bush voter, or a McCain voter, you could at least understand and respect their choices. As Obama put it:
“This is different than just having policy differences. I recognize that they profoundly disagree with myself or Hillary Clinton on tax policy or certain elements of foreign policy, but there have been Republican presidents with whom I disagreed with but I didn’t have a doubt that they could function as president. I think I was right and Mitt Romney and John McCain were wrong on certain policy issues, but I never thought that they couldn’t do the job.”

Trump is different... with him, it is not a case of "I have a difference in policy with you", its a case where pretty much everything about Trump is wrong... not only his actions and his policies, but his intelligence, his philosophy in governing. The reason we attack him constantly is because everything he does deserves to be attacked.

(And keep in mind that I am not some sort of hard-left liberal/socialist. In fact, I regularly vote for the conservative party here in Canada. And to me its obvious that Trump is a blight on the political right-wing.)
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It is counter-productive.  It is further dividing America along party lines.
Actually, the U.S. has already been divided along party lines. It started years ago, long before Trump ever decided to run for the Republican nomination. (Remember McConnell and his goal to oppose, oppose, oppose everything Obama did. And the Republicans went right along with it.)

So, what are the options... Try to compromise? Play nice? Why bother... the Republicans are in my opinion, scum. Even if you do compromise, you're probably not going to get anywhere (especially with Stubby McBonespurs in the white house.) So, might as well take a hard line stance.

I think this particular cartoon says everything you need to know about how the Republican party currently functions.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on May 22, 2019, 02:21:06 pm
As mentioned earlier...

- He benefited significantly from being the son of Fred Trump (both financially and in getting contacts)
- Much of his later success was a combination of 1) having resources he inherited to help him out, and 2) a willingness to engage in illegal activities which are not well policed.

Trump did not blow his fortune like the Eaton family or the Asper children did, when their successful father passed away.

Neither of those factors requires a significant amount of intelligence to accomplish.Trump did not develop the series, he was merely a participant. A prop. The real brains behind the series is Mark Burnett. His daddy may not have helped him run for president, but the Russians and Fox News sure did.Because when one of the other presidents who came from wealth/privilege speak, they don't 1) lie pretty much constantly, 2) ramble on incoherently at times (often spouting bigoted rhetoric), and 3) has policies that will ultimately cause great harm to the U.S. (and ultimately the world)
Trump may not be polite, but it requires quite a bit of intelligence to win the Republican nomination from a field of a dozen respected career politicians.

Oh, and by the way, keep in mind that while Trump came from wealth:
- Obama's mother had an academic background
- Bill Clinton's father was a travelling salesman. His mother went to nursing school, and his step-father owned a car dealership.
- Jimmy Carter's mother was a nurse, and his father was (at one time) a travelling salesman and a small business owner
All 3 of those presidents have what I would consider a middle-class upbringing.... they weren't exactly born into wealth and privilege, unlike Stubby McBonespurs. Trump is... unique.

I never say "all US Presidents" just the majority of them.


Trump is different... with him, it is not a case of "I have a difference in policy with you", its a case where pretty much everything about Trump is wrong... not only his actions and his policies, but his intelligence, his philosophy in governing. The reason we attack him constantly is because everything he does deserves to be attacked.

I agree that Trump was a poor choice for US President.  However, so was Hilary Clinton.

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So, what are the options... Try to compromise? Play nice? Why bother... the Republicans are in my opinion, scum. Even if you do compromise, you're probably not going to get anywhere (especially with Stubby McBonespurs in the white house.) So, might as well take a hard line stance.

Funny.  Trump reminds me of the Disney character "Scrooge McDuck."

(https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.356956416.6719/flat,550x550,075,f.u2.jpg)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on May 22, 2019, 02:36:41 pm
Whatever you think of Trump, he definitely has a higher IQ than 90% of the population.

Trump has always relied on others (lawyers) to keep him out of trouble. Is that a reflection of a high IQ, or just a big enough pocket book?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 22, 2019, 02:38:55 pm
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If trump is so "successful" why is there not a US bank that will loan him a dime? I'll tell ya why, because he defaulted on so many loans due to failed businesses and now even Duetshabank is suffering. I suspect Americans have become "obsessed" with him because he somehow got elected to an office which he is far from capable of properly administering. And then of course there is that lingering business of the fact he thinks he should be "able to grab women by the **** when you're a star"
Bill Clinton did much worse than Trump, in that regard.
Keep in mind that the whole "grab 'em" was not the only questionable thing Trump has done. There is also:

- Trump walking in on underage contestants at one of his beauty contests
- Multiple allegations of sexual assault
- Trump wants to bang his daughter

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations
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While Trump has had shady business dealings....
By that I assume you mean "Almost all of the wealth he appears to have is the result of illegal activity" then I'd say you're right.
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...you cannot deny he is a winner.
So was Bernie Maddoff... for a while. So was Manafort... So was Jim Bakker... for a while. Those people had great financial success, lasting years/decades. But for them it all came crashing down for all 3 of them.

The fact that in individual is willing to scam people (and even has some ability to do so) does not make them intelligent.
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He has been a celebrity for 40 years
Your original allegation was that he was "smarter" than 90% of people.

You don't need to be smart to be a celebrity. You can be dumb as dirt, an absolute train wreck, and still be famous.
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...has a successful Hotel chain
Actually we don't know how successful his hotel chain is, since he's doing his best to keep his financial details hidden. Its possible that his 'hotel chain' is a big money loser, but only appears successful because its being used to launder russian money.

Oh, and even if his hotel chain is successful, there is still: Trump Mortgage, Trump's casinos, Trump University, Trump's airline, Trump's magazine... shall I go on? Oh, please, let me...

Then there's this:

From: https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/07/politics/trump-tax-returns-losses/index.html
It appears Trump lost more money than nearly any other individual US taxpayer year after year, the Times reports, according to the 10 years of tax information the newspaper acquired.

(Trump will claim it was because "everyone was doing write offs/depreciation", but the fact that his loses were SO much larger than others suggests it was not just accounting tricks.)
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reality TV show
Which again, was created by Burnnet, not by Trump.
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and is the most powerful man in the USA.
Thanks to Russia/Fox News/The Electoral College.
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Trudeau, on the other hand, is not cut out to be PM, and is arguably worse to Canada than Trump is to America.
I voted conservative in the last election.... and I think that claim is bunk.

I can point to a dozen reasons why I dislike Trudeau... bad military policy, his "deficit will go away on its own", and his various goofs... and the record of Trudeau is nowhere near as bad as what Trump is doing to the U.S. The problems that Trump is causing (the massive deficits, the trade wars, appointing incompetent people to various positions, nominating Drunky McRapeface to the supreme court..) are problems that will take years if not decades to correct.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 22, 2019, 02:45:52 pm
Bill Clinton did much worse than Trump, in that regard.

While Trump has had shady business dealings, you cannot deny he is a winner. He has been a celebrity for 40 years, has a successful Hotel chain, reality TV show, and is the most powerful man in the USA.  I'm not saying he is good for democracy, but you cannot deny he has been very successful in life.

Trudeau, on the other hand, is not cut out to be PM, and is arguably worse to Canada than Trump is to America.

Care to explain why you think Clinton "did much worse on that regard"?
He is a winner because he is a cheater. And he is certainly not good for democracy and so it seems what you are saying is you will forfeit democracy for his type of winner. I will meet you at teh border with a **** axe. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 22, 2019, 02:52:57 pm
Trump has always relied on others (lawyers) to keep him out of trouble. Is that a reflection of a high IQ, or just a big enough pocket book?

The latter I'm sure and even that becomes questionable since he fights so hard not to open the books. Perhaps his balance is as low as his IQ.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 22, 2019, 03:18:57 pm
Trump did not blow his fortune like the Eaton family or the Asper children did, when their successful father passed away.
Actually he probably did.

There is a rather famous story where Trump (in the middle of one of his company's bankruptcies) pointed to a homeless person and told Ivanka that the homeless guy was actually richer than he was because of all the debt.

The fact that he appears wealthy now is likely because the Russians are using his businesses to launder money.

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Trump may not be polite, but it requires quite a bit of intelligence to win the Republican nomination from a field of a dozen respected career politicians.
Errr... not really. When you have a 'clown car' primary, you don't need to get anywhere near a majority of votes to secure the nomination.

Oh, and I should also question... what "respected career politicians" were you referring to? Ted Cruz (The guy who seemed to be hated by people on both sides of congress)? Jeb Bush (the brother of the guy who gave us Iraq)? Rick Perry (the guy who couldn't remember what government departments he wanted to cut)?
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I never say "all US Presidents" just the majority of them.
First of all, not really sure how relevant it is to look at presidents from before the time we were born. After all, I don't think anyone here is going to be discussing the policies of President Polk.

Secondly, I'm not seven sure you're right about the whole "the majority of presidents are born into wealth". In addition to Obama, Carter and Clinton, you also have:
- Reagan: Father was a salesman
- Ford: Father was a trader, but parents separated, and stepfather was a salesman
- Nixon: Parent's ranch had failed, eventually opened a small business
- Johnson: Born on a farm
- Eisenhower: Family originally had a store that failed. Father ended up working as a mechanic for a while
- Truman: Father was a farmer
- Hoover: Parents died when he was still a kid
- Coolidge: Father Worked variously as a shopkeeper, farmer and public servant. (he did eventually go into politics, but never above the state level)

So, at least if the 20th century tells us anything, the vast majority of presidents DON'T come from lives of wealth and privilege.

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I agree that Trump was a poor choice for US President.  However, so was Hilary Clinton.
No, she wasn't. The caricature of Clinton was thought by many to be a bad choice. But while she was not perfect, she appeared to be 1) level headed, 2) intelligent (real intelligence, not the "he has a gold toilet so he must be smart) intelligence, 3) not a bigot.

She went through hours of questioning at the hands of hostile republicans at the Benghazi hearings, and stayed calm and collected. Drunky McRapeface on the other hand broke down and cried when he was questioned.
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Quote
So, what are the options... Try to compromise? Play nice? Why bother... the Republicans are in my opinion, scum. Even if you do compromise, you're probably not going to get anywhere (especially with Stubby McBonespurs in the white house.) So, might as well take a hard line stance.
Funny.  Trump reminds me of the Disney character "Scrooge McDuck."
Why, did Scrooge McDuck also fake bone spurs in order to get out of serving in the military?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 22, 2019, 03:38:58 pm
Trump's daddy Fred was the landlord of a doctors office 50 years ago and so the doctor did daddy Trump a favor by "diagnosing" bone spurs so baby Trump wouldn't have to serve. How convenient!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 22, 2019, 07:27:03 pm
So basically, the Russians are laundering dirty money through the US ... through the president.

Sex enslavement... drugs... etc.

The president is a huge criminal.

--------

I'm thinking the antics today were about Pelosi trying to get Trump to have a tantrum, to budge the needle on polls favouring impeachment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 22, 2019, 07:39:08 pm
So basically, the Russians are laundering dirty money through the US ... through the president.

Sex enslavement... drugs... etc.

The president is a huge criminal.

--------

I'm thinking the antics today were about Pelosi trying to get Trump to have a tantrum, to budge the needle on polls favouring impeachment.

If it was about baiting Trump into a tantrum she sure as hell succeeded. She seems able to outsmart him so easily and it pisses him off. It will be interesting to see how todays events affect the impeachment issue.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on May 22, 2019, 08:09:30 pm
Drunky McRapeface on the other hand broke down and cried when he was questioned.Funny.  Trump reminds me of the Disney character "Scrooge McDuck."
Why, did Scrooge McDuck also fake bone spurs in order to get out of serving in the military?

Trump abstains from alcohol.  His brother Fred Jr. died of alcoholism in his 40s.

Scrooge McDuck deferred military service due to "wrinkled feather syndrome."  I do not have Scrooge McDucks military deferment on hand, so you will just have to take my word for it.

The relationship between McDuck and Trump is very complex.  Compromising picture of the two were leaked to the press months ago.  They say a picture is worth a thousand words. We can draw our own conclusions:

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQO1S5QOml_P8Dx3UA4yEK2HbuX2hMfYqCiz_wyhrkJb4PN4ByjWg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2_tFLqWgAAsSmV.jpg)

(https://y4i4r4s3.stackpathcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/IMG_0125.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 23, 2019, 10:20:14 am
Trump abstains from alcohol.  His brother Fred Jr. died of alcoholism in his 40s.
He main not drink, but there are suggestions that he might be abusing **** and/or adderall (given his habit of sniffing a lot, and the fact that he often tweets very early in the morning, suggesting he isn't getting much sleep.)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2016/10/09/donald-trumps-sniffling-continues-here-now-are-the-possible-causes/#388396ce5ccf
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-snorted-adderall-apprentice-tom-arnold-noel-casler-1257787
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 23, 2019, 12:15:19 pm
I hear now Trump is calling former Sec. of State Tillerson "as dumb as a rock" after Rex pointed out to the foreign affairs committee how ill prepared Trump was at a meeting with Putin in Germany.
"Dumb as a rock" eh, well lets see. Before Trump hired Tillerson he spent the previous 10 years as CEO of Exxon-Mobil corp. during which time it was the richest company on the planet. (Not that I'm a fan of fossil fuels but hey, "friends is friends and business is business") During the same time Trump was filing bankruptcies on his hotels, casinos, and various other businesses while at the same time screwing multiple contractors out of payments for work done. I think if I was trying to hire someone to run my business I'd go with the "dumb as a rock guy"and actually make money.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 23, 2019, 01:47:55 pm
I hear now Trump is calling former Sec. of State Tillerson "as dumb as a rock" after Rex pointed out to the foreign affairs committee how ill prepared Trump was at a meeting with Putin in Germany.
"Dumb as a rock" eh, well lets see. Before Trump hired Tillerson he spent the previous 10 years as CEO of Exxon-Mobil corp....
And even if Tillerson was "dumb as a rock", what exactly does that say about Trump? After all, Trump was the one who actually hired him as secretary of state, and he claims he "hires the best people".  Shouldn't Trump have realized that "this guy was dumb" before nominating him for his cabinet?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 23, 2019, 02:10:50 pm
And even if Tillerson was "dumb as a rock", what exactly does that say about Trump? After all, Trump was the one who actually hired him as secretary of state, and he claims he "hires the best people".  Shouldn't Trump have realized that "this guy was dumb" before nominating him for his cabinet?

Hard to know what exactly goes on in Trumps head but I suspect, in this case for an instance, he likes to hire people who are deemed to be smart, but then gets riled up when those smart people try to direct him since they are smarter than him, so he fires them. Apparently ego trumps IQ.

Ya, ya see what I did there? ;)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 23, 2019, 03:00:03 pm
Hey American taxpayer, get out your wallets and pay the farmers $16 BILLION so they don't go broke in the wake of Trump's trade war with China. While you are doing that, (keep counting it out) think about whether you want to vote him in again. No keep counting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on May 23, 2019, 03:08:28 pm
Hey American taxpayer, get out your wallets and pay the farmers $16 BILLION so they don't go broke in the wake of Trump's trade war with China.

Better still, Trump wants to give the farmers $16 billion and also reduce funding to the Agriculture department by $3.6 billion. Trumpomics are even more deluded than Reganomics.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on May 23, 2019, 03:27:53 pm
Words that begin with i

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVYYAXVD_YY
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 23, 2019, 04:01:40 pm
Words that begin with i

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVYYAXVD_YY

I might add, interminably, irritatingly, irrogant. Oops, spelling error. Oh well Donny won't notice.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 23, 2019, 05:07:35 pm
Yep, Donny has trumped up names such as "Crying Chuck, and Crazy Nancy" and then rolls out one for himself a " a stable genius". I hoped he didn't **** his pants while he came up with all that ****.

He's hillarious, at least as long as you're not an American.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 24, 2019, 03:22:25 pm
Trump and his aides have stooped to a new low publishing doctored videos of Nancy Pelosi speaking that make her sound like she is slurring her words. Hoe low will these scumbags go? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on May 25, 2019, 12:07:06 am
Trump and his aides have stooped to a new low publishing doctored videos of Nancy Pelosi speaking that make her sound like she is slurring her words. Hoe low will these scumbags go?

That actually sounds childish, but amusing. Do you have a link?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on May 25, 2019, 12:08:54 am
Hey American taxpayer, get out your wallets and pay the farmers $16 BILLION so they don't go broke in the wake of Trump's trade war with China. While you are doing that, (keep counting it out) think about whether you want to vote him in again. No keep counting.

Trump will find a way to blame Obama, and his voting base will believe him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 25, 2019, 12:56:08 am
That actually sounds childish, but amusing. Do you have a link?

It's allover the place now.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/24/us/politics/pelosi-doctored-video.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 25, 2019, 12:58:52 am
That actually sounds childish, but amusing. Do you have a link?

It's mot just childish but sick. Donald Trump is a sick child.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on May 25, 2019, 01:17:26 am
It's mot just childish but sick. Donald Trump is a sick child.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVxVDDYwNvU

Trump has based his entire persona in the last 20 years off of pro wrestling's Vince McMahon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 25, 2019, 01:34:38 pm
So the Japaneses will have to entertain Trump on Memorial Day. (Good plan Donny) Of course they know how to deal with him, pretend to suck up, keep him in the spotlight with a military parade, a dinner and round of golf (hopefully he won't cheat) with the Japanese PM, and then get the fucker out of town. And of course to ice the cake he is considering pardons for at least 3 US war criminals. The plot sickens.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 27, 2019, 01:20:18 am
Just listening to Trump reading his speech in Japan. Once again it appears he can't say anything intelligent that hasn't been written for him, and he does a really poor job of even reading that.







Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 27, 2019, 11:49:17 am
What happens when a country where manners are everything is visited by someone who doesn't know what they are.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 27, 2019, 02:17:33 pm
What happens when a country where manners are everything is visited by someone who doesn't know what they are.

Not only a lack of manners, but it goes a lot deeper when Trump is in Japan dismissing his "lover" Fat Kim for firing missiles that could very well reach Japan, even after Trump says he had a promise from buddy Kim not too. He's not only impolite, he's an easy dupe. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 27, 2019, 02:27:54 pm
Not only a lack of manners, but it goes a lot deeper when Trump is in Japan dismissing his "lover" Fat Kim for firing missiles that could very well reach Japan, even after Trump says he had a promise from buddy Kim not too. He's not only impolite, he's an easy dupe.
Its ok... Trump said it was just a small weapon. Nothing to worry about.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 27, 2019, 02:39:16 pm
Its ok... Trump said it was just a small weapon. Nothing to worry about.

I'm sure that put Shinzo Abe's concerns to rest.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 27, 2019, 07:15:25 pm
So Trump is now siding with his "lover" fat kim to deride Joe Biden. OK so he is now sucking up to a murderous dictator against a former US vice president. What a **** sicko!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on May 27, 2019, 09:39:47 pm
So Trump is now siding with his "lover" fat kim to deride Joe Biden. OK so he is now sucking up to a murderous dictator against a former US vice president. What a **** sicko!

I don not think that anything Trump does will surprise me.  It has not affected his approval ratings, and the American people have probaly tuned out by now.  It's just a big reality TV show.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 28, 2019, 02:44:58 pm
Trump once again snuggles up to his lover fat kim by backing the latter's comments about Biden. And once again the current potus sides with a murderous dictator over a former vice president. Sarah Sanders of course hastened to confirm this as she wagged her tail for her boss.

North Korea’s state-run news agency issued a biting attack last week on Biden, who has been critical of the communist state.

“I think they agree in their assessment of former Vice President Joe Biden,” Sanders said of Trump and Kim during an interview with NBC’s “Meet the Press.” She was speaking from Japan during a state visit by Trump.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-northkorea-trump-biden/trump-agrees-with-north-korean-leader-kim-on-biden-white-house-idUSKCN1SW0HQ

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 28, 2019, 06:20:37 pm
Hey I wonder if the next Trump tower will go up in Pyongyang. I'm sure kimmy can find him some cheap labor contractors who he can rip off after the bricks are in place.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 29, 2019, 10:49:50 am
It will be interesting to see Trump's response now that Mueller has now spoken publicly about his report, especially the part where he says "if we had sufficient reason to believe the president did not commit a crime, we would have said so". That sort of flies in the face of the "no collusion, full exoneration" blather that Trump has been repeating over and over and over.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 29, 2019, 12:27:23 pm
It will be interesting to see Trump's response now that Mueller has now spoken publicly about his report, especially the part where he says "if we had sufficient reason to believe the president did not commit a crime, we would have said so". That sort of flies in the face of the "no collusion, full exoneration" blather that Trump has been repeating over and over and over.
Trump already responded.

He tweeted a variation of "not enough evidence/innocent until proven guilty. Case closed."

Basically he's admitting he got off on a technicality.

Of course it is interesting that he said "not enough evidence" rather than "no evidence".

https://www.vox.com/2019/5/29/18644280/mueller-statement-trump-tweet
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 29, 2019, 12:32:04 pm
Trump already responded.

He tweeted a variation of "not enough evidence/innocent until proven guilty. Case closed."

Basically he's admitting he got off on a technicality.

Of course it is interesting that he said "not enough evidence" rather than "no evidence".

https://www.vox.com/2019/5/29/18644280/mueller-statement-trump-tweet

I heard that but I suspect his aides/council are keeping him at bay for the moment, but that may not last. His "no collusion, total exoneration" comments just took another hit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 29, 2019, 02:37:00 pm
Things might get really messy for the U.S. in its trade war...

From: https://www.ccn.com/dow-flails-beijing-bombshell-pummels-trump
An editorial in the China’s People’s Daily – the Communist Party’s official newspaper – called for Beijing to drastically reduce exports of rare earths, which are vital to key industrial sectors including defense, energy, and automobile manufacturing. Around 80% of all US rare earths imports come from China...

I hope china does it. The U.S. needs to be punished for letting Stubby McBonespurs anywhere near the white house.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 29, 2019, 07:58:42 pm
Things might get really messy for the U.S. in its trade war...

From: https://www.ccn.com/dow-flails-beijing-bombshell-pummels-trump
An editorial in the China’s People’s Daily – the Communist Party’s official newspaper – called for Beijing to drastically reduce exports of rare earths, which are vital to key industrial sectors including defense, energy, and automobile manufacturing. Around 80% of all US rare earths imports come from China...

I hope china does it. The U.S. needs to be punished for letting Stubby McBonespurs anywhere near the white house.

I see the "latest breaking" story is that the ole Stubby McBonespurs White House ordered that the name of navy ship USS John McCain be covered so Trump wouldn't have to see it while he was on his recent visit to Japan. Initially a tarp was placed over the name, but it fell off so they moved a barge into place as cover. How **** petty can this get! 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 29, 2019, 09:10:45 pm
Here you go:

White House Wanted USS John McCain ‘Out of Sight’ During Trump Japan Visit

https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-house-wanted-uss-john-mccain-out-of-sight-during-trump-japan-visit-11559173470
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 29, 2019, 09:24:25 pm
Here you go:

White House Wanted USS John McCain ‘Out of Sight’ During Trump Japan Visit

https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-house-wanted-uss-john-mccain-out-of-sight-during-trump-japan-visit-11559173470

I wonder how that makes the crew on that ship feel.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on May 30, 2019, 12:05:37 am
I wonder how that makes the crew on that ship feel.

Heartbroken.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 30, 2019, 05:57:16 am
Heartbroken.

So - he's still at 40% approval.

Why ?

Are people in America that immoral or do they think it's lies ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 30, 2019, 12:24:37 pm
As expected Trump only was able to follow aides advice for a day and then blew another gasket today over Mueller's public chat about his report. A tweet storm followed by a string of lies to reporters as he walked to the helicopter. Fact checkers are currently busy pulling all that apart. He even contradicted himself within a short time span over the Russian interference in his election. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 30, 2019, 05:12:02 pm
"I had nothing to do with Russia helping me get elected" A short time later, "Russia had nothing to do with helping me get elected."
Rather contradictory comments from the self described "stable genius".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 31, 2019, 02:39:13 pm
I see Trump has managed to get the markets cratering yet again (DOW below 25,000) with his newly announced tariff against Mexican goods coming into the US in an attempt to slow/stop immigration. So lets see, the extra costs will be passed onto the American consumer, the tariff/tax collected will  mostly have to be used to bail out American farmers who will be hardest hit, and it could also put people out of work in Mexico and therefore increase the numbers of those crossing the border. And this of course as the new NAFTA is in the process of being negotiated.

The "stable genius" ,as he tries to call himself, seems to be more **** up than ever with this latest knee jerk idea.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 31, 2019, 03:05:00 pm
He seems to disregard the incredible amount of coordination that goes into setting up NAFTA.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 31, 2019, 03:21:38 pm
He seems to disregard the incredible amount of coordination that goes into setting up NAFTA.

I wonder if the issue was touched on by JT and Pence during their recentvisit. I did hear the abortion issue was brought up by JT and of course they agreed to disagree.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 31, 2019, 09:06:00 pm
So now in Virginia Beach VA. there are 16 shot, 12 dead and 4 undergoing surgery. Hasn't been determined how the guns used were obtained but I'm thinking that regardless of that outcome, Trump will offer his condolences and then continue to romance the NRA in hopes they come up with financial support for his reelection campaign. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 01, 2019, 08:32:23 pm
Paul Manaforts forfeited property in Trump Tower is now owned by the US federal government and is expected to sell for well more than the cost of the Mueller investigation, so there goes Trump's argument that the investigation cost the taxpayers money and found "nothing".

The U.S. government now owns a Trump Tower condo compliments of Paul Manafort.

A federal judge on Thursday granted the Justice Department's request to seize the choice piece of New York City real estate that was formerly owned by Manafort, Trump's ex-campaign manage

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/feds-take-possession-paul-manafort-s-trump-tower-condo-n1012156
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on June 02, 2019, 01:50:46 pm
A federal judge on Thursday granted the Justice Department's request to seize the choice piece of New York City real estate that was formerly owned by Manafort, Trump's ex-campaign manage

Does that mean the federal government also inherits the foreign obligations that go with it?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 02, 2019, 02:04:17 pm
Does that mean the federal government also inherits the foreign obligations that go with it?

Perhaps. Maybe it will provide some insights into that Trump tower meeting after all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 02, 2019, 03:16:29 pm
As Trump gets ready to travel to London to visit with the Royal's he sends out a tweet stating he never said that Meghan Markle was "nasty" while he is on video clearly saying so in response to her comment that if he was elected she would move to Canada. Maybe after he was elected she decided Canada wasn't quite far enough away. Where does that bring his current lie total too I wonder.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/06/01/trump-says-duchess-meghan-was-nasty-about-him-fueling-debate-uk-ahead-his-state-visit/?utm_term=.9720a2035dab

President Trump sparked a new debate in Britain this past week, after calling past comments by Meghan, Duchess of Sussex, “nasty” in an interview with the Sun tabloid.

During the 2016 election campaign, the duchess — then Meghan Markle — called Trump “misogynistic” and “divisive.” The American actress also said she might move to Canada if Trump was elected president. Instead, two years on, she married Prince Harry and became part of Britain’s royal family.

I see they have the trump blimp flying in "honor" of his visit. Let's see if he has learned enough not to go stumbling out in front of the Queen this time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 03, 2019, 10:42:48 am
Trump's new (Biff Tannen) do... (sans cheeto spray-on tan)!

(https://i.imgur.com/tReTDqz.jpg)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on June 03, 2019, 11:00:05 am
Trump's presidency is the greatest reality show of all time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 03, 2019, 11:59:36 am
Trump's presidency is the greatest reality show of all time.

I think I would call it the "greatest" gong show ever. I see that just as he was landing in the UK he tweeted out that he wants the world to boycott ATT. I guess it pisses him off that CNN constantly catches him out on his lies, especially the current pertinent one where he lied as to his comment "nasty" when referring to Meghan Markle, who happens to now be a member of the royal family.  He also took the time to insult the mayor of London. I'm wondering if perhaps the queen invited him over simply to give him an opportunity to embarrass himself yet again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 03, 2019, 06:10:03 pm
Jarod Kushner cedrtainly made a complete and utter ass of himself in that Axios interview. Oh well, I guess like father like son (in law).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Super Colin Blow on June 04, 2019, 10:59:29 am
I think I would call it the "greatest" gong show ever. I see that just as he was landing in the UK he tweeted out that he wants the world to boycott ATT. I guess it pisses him off that CNN constantly catches him out on his lies, especially the current pertinent one where he lied as to his comment "nasty" when referring to Meghan Markle, who happens to now be a member of the royal family.  He also took the time to insult the mayor of London. I'm wondering if perhaps the queen invited him over simply to give him an opportunity to embarrass himself yet again.

Well, she might as well have Trump over for tea. She had lunch with Idi Amin after all. Poor woman.

What did he say (or how did he insult) the mayor of London?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 04, 2019, 11:22:30 am
insultin' the Mayor of London:   "stone cold loser"... how Trumpian Presidential!

(https://i.imgur.com/QpMV2NQ.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 04, 2019, 09:12:05 pm
The Queen trolls Trump by giving him a book by Churchill, May does it by giving him a copy of the Atlantic Charter. Well played, too bad he won't get it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 04, 2019, 09:27:45 pm
The Queen trolls Trump by giving him a book by Churchill, May does it by giving him a copy of the Atlantic Charter. Well played, too bad he won't get it.

Yes and I think the Queen played him like a fiddle during her toast to begin the palace dinner with her references to NATO while Donny sort of glanced around apparently unaware of what was actually going on, as usual. I'll wager she had a sip of gin later on and enjoyed a royal giggle.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on June 05, 2019, 08:43:39 am
As much as I and others have grown to dislike Trump, the POTUS the office he sits in is bigger than him. He only sits there a maximum 8 years. That POTUS preceded Trump and will proceed him. What  it stands for is bigger than him or any one person. Therefore maybe we should separate Trump from POTUS a bit on this visit  and understand he was there for a reason for bigger than himself and who he is should not detract from the D-Day issue and the sacrifice Yanks, Canadians Brits, et al made on D day. That event speaks to ordinary people forced to do extra ordinary things. Bless their memory.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 05, 2019, 10:02:29 am
leaders & veterans commemorating D-Day... front row of country leaders and Queen/Prince Charles... somehow... somehow... "country leader" Melania is front-n'-center! Such boorish, uncouth Trumpian behaviour!

(https://i.imgur.com/xHRBAxl.jpg)

and... American royalty was also there!  ;D

(https://www.all4women.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/05/trump-kids-750x458.jpg?)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 05, 2019, 12:15:07 pm
leaders & veterans commemorating D-Day... front row of country leaders and Queen/Prince Charles... somehow... somehow... "country leader" Melania is front-n'-center! Such boorish, uncouth Trumpian behaviour!

(https://i.imgur.com/xHRBAxl.jpg)

and... American royalty was also there!  ;D

(https://www.all4women.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/05/trump-kids-750x458.jpg?)

I wonder if he had to nudge the Queen out of the way to get Melania into position? He certainly has practice as to how to do that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 05, 2019, 01:25:06 pm
Just listened to segments from an interview Pierce Brosnan did with Trump were he questioned him about the bonespurs. Trump said he was glad to be able to use bonespurs as an excuse to avoid military duty because "I didn't like that war, and it was in a country far away". etc. etc. I am working hard just now to restrain my fingers from typing out my true emotions I have for this "stable genius" who brags about assaulting women because he's also "a star".
I need a swig of single malt.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 05, 2019, 03:51:32 pm
Just listened to segments from an interview Pierce Brosnan did with Trump were he questioned him about the bonespurs.
Minor nitpick, but did you mean Piers Morgan? Bronson is an actor (probably best known for playing Bond. James Bond.). Morgan is a journalist.
Quote
Trump said he was glad to be able to use bonespurs as an excuse to avoid military duty because "I didn't like that war, and it was in a country far away". etc. etc.
I guess my question is, was he actually against the war at the time.

We've seen this before... Trump claims he was "always" opposed to the Iraq invasion, even though he said he supported it back in 2002/2003. It wouldn't supprise me if, back in the mid-70s, he was in favor of the Vietnam war (as long as he didn't have to serve), and it wasn't until decades later that he decided he was "against the war".

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump/trump-says-he-was-against-iraq-war-despite-howard-stern-interview-idUSKCN11E2QM
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 05, 2019, 04:15:32 pm
Minor nitpick, but did you mean Piers Morgan? Bronson is an actor (probably best known for playing Bond. James Bond.). Morgan is a journalist.I guess my question is, was he actually against the war at the time.

We've seen this before... Trump claims he was "always" opposed to the Iraq invasion, even though he said he supported it back in 2002/2003. It wouldn't supprise me if, back in the mid-70s, he was in favor of the Vietnam war (as long as he didn't have to serve), and it wasn't until decades later that he decided he was "against the war".

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump/trump-says-he-was-against-iraq-war-despite-howard-stern-interview-idUSKCN11E2QM

You haven't heard of Pierce Brosnan? Never watched a movie or two?

And I don't really give a fiddley arse **** that Trump was able to fake his way out of military service, since I suspect he would have been a drag on the rest of the forces had he have shown up, but when he tries to berate the likes of John McCain, who actually did serve and who is now dead, I feel I would like to spit in his face.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 05, 2019, 07:28:54 pm
The interview was with Piers Morgan.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 06, 2019, 02:26:35 am
Trump has now applied for a permit to build a wall around his golf club in Ireland to prevent rising sea level from flooding it. But then of course he's a denier with regard to global warming. Denier bullshit rises to even higher offices.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 06, 2019, 05:52:53 am
Picking apart the words of liars... ok then...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 06, 2019, 02:01:43 pm
Pelosi now says she is pushing back against the idea of impeaching Trump because she would rather see him behind bars.
I have to agree. I suspect his crimes rise above the level of those that can be determined bu congress and should be heard in court. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on June 06, 2019, 03:28:01 pm
Pelosi now says she is pushing back against the idea of impeaching Trump because she would rather see him behind bars.
I have to agree. I suspect his crimes rise above the level of those that can be determined bu congress and should be heard in court.

I have said for some time, he is a lame duck so let him finish his term and then allow the justice department (under a real attorney general) do its job. No need for a bunch of Senate stooges to to vindicate him, or worse yet Pence to pardon him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 06, 2019, 03:44:37 pm
I have said for some time, he is a lame duck so let him finish his term and then allow the justice department (under a real attorney general) do its job. No need for a bunch of Senate stooges to to vindicate him, or worse yet Pence to pardon him.

I agree. Vote him out and let the law take it's course. Unfortunately the EC could once again override the voter as they did in 2016. A **** up system which needs updating.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 06, 2019, 04:18:00 pm
Trump goes to Normandy to apparently show respect for fallen soldiers, but can't resist going off on a rant about Mueller and Pelosi. He stoops to yet another low clASS!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on June 06, 2019, 11:58:20 pm
Trump goes to Normandy to apparently show respect for fallen soldiers, but can't resist going off on a rant about Mueller and Pelosi. He stoops to yet another low clASS!

You have a weird borderline sexual fixation on Donald Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 07, 2019, 06:25:47 am
I have a feeling you're going to be crying about being a stupid drunk that no one likes again soon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 07, 2019, 08:05:00 am
You have a weird borderline sexual fixation on Donald Trump.
   

Drunk again are ya?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 07, 2019, 10:10:07 am
I don't need alcohol for people not to like me.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 08, 2019, 02:18:10 pm
Luckily Trump had the good sense to back away from his threat to impose tariffs on Mexico. I'm sure Americans who are thinking of buying a new car for instance are happy not to be forced to pay an average of $1300 more. I suspect the threat was empty from the get go but now Donny can puff up his chest and claim another "accomplishment" by such a "stable genius" etc., etc.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 08, 2019, 03:24:05 pm
Donald Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 08, 2019, 03:52:15 pm
Donald Trump.

Heard of him have ya?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 11, 2019, 01:31:33 pm
Trump should maybe stop pausing on the south lawn to take questions as he seems to make a complete ass of himself every time he does. Today he spent a lot of time trying to trash Joe Biden calling him a "dummy" and other types of schoolyard trash talk. His hypocrisy emerged yet again as he switched gears to **** about Pelosis' statement she made while Trump was overseas about preferring to seeing him in jail rather than impeached. A statement she made in a caucus meeting and wasn't meant for the public. Trump meanwhile calls Pelosi "a nasty, vindictive, horrible person" while sitting beside graves of fallen American soldiers at Normandy. Maybe he and Biden can find a farm field in Iowa and duke it out since they are both campaigning there today.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 12, 2019, 11:49:05 am
Trump wants to impress the currently visiting Polish president by having the military do a fly by with 2 F-35's. I wonder if they will be able to get 2 of those $90 million "bomb trucks" running at the same time, and if so surely they will do a fly by, not a fly over lest an engine failure causes a pilot to eject and the airframe ends up on the south lawn perhaps smashing into Marine One.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 12, 2019, 01:03:35 pm
Well apparently they could only get one F-35 going for the fly by that lasted ~30 seconds or so. Ho hum. And I wonder how much disruption this caused for local airline traffic.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 12, 2019, 02:47:40 pm
Trump wants to impress the currently visiting Polish president by having the military do a fly by with 2 F-35's.
Trump things the planes are invisible... couldn't the military just SAY they sent up 2 planes, but keep them safely on the ground. "Of course we did a flyby. But they're stealth planes. You didn't expect to see them, did you? That defeats the purpose of stealth."

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 12, 2019, 02:56:17 pm
Trump things the planes are invisible... couldn't the military just SAY they sent up 2 planes, but keep them safely on the ground. "Of course we did a flyby. But they're stealth planes. You didn't expect to see them, did you? That defeats the purpose of stealth."

I don't doubt Trump could be that easily duped. After all Fat Kim has done it easily enough it seems. Maybe Trump U science class didn't bother to get all technical as to what radar is.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 12, 2019, 03:07:18 pm
And please keep in mind, "it's not what meant, it's what I said"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 12, 2019, 03:38:20 pm
Well apparently they could only get one F-35 going for the fly by that lasted ~30 seconds or so. Ho hum.
Not really sure why the length of the fly by matters. After all, it wasn't an air-show demo or dog-fight simulation. Its a jet plane. And it moves fast. You would expect it to be short.
Quote
And I wonder how much disruption this caused for local airline traffic.
I think the airspace over Washington has been closed to airline traffic since 9/11, so it shouldn't have really mattered.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on June 12, 2019, 03:46:18 pm
Its a jet plane. And it moves fast.

Depends, the F-35B variant should be able to move slow.

When Trump spoke of the planned flyby earlier he said two fighters would make two passes over the White House before going "straight up. The pilots obviously didn't get the message.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 12, 2019, 03:52:46 pm
Depends, the F-35B variant should be able to move slow.

When Trump spoke of the planned flyby earlier he said two fighters would make two passes over the White House before going "straight up. The pilots obviously didn't get the message.

Takes lots of power to go straight up. Those engines tend to blow up when you "go with throttle up".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 12, 2019, 06:40:50 pm
Trump just admitted on air he would accept "dirt" from a hostile foreign government on a political rival in an election campaign. So much for his "no collusion, no obstruction" bullshit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 13, 2019, 12:45:09 pm
Trump just admitted on air he would accept "dirt" from a hostile foreign government on a political rival in an election campaign. So much for his "no collusion, no obstruction" bullshit.

this morning - a megaRecoveryPush by Trump & minions... trying to claim Trump said no such thing while presumably deflecting towards "behaviour" by the Ranking Member of the House Intelligence Committee - Adam Schiff. Of course a compliant and ignorant media doesn't have the wherewithal to actually challenge the minion talking points. Schiff's tweet response:

(https://i.imgur.com/XuVa0a2.png)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 13, 2019, 12:54:29 pm
Well apparently they could only get one F-35 going for the fly by that lasted ~30 seconds or so. Ho hum. And I wonder how much disruption this caused for local airline traffic.

There wasn’t supposed to be two aircraft. The marines sent two aircraft up from a base in South Carolina, one to do the fly past and the other as a spare.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on June 13, 2019, 12:55:54 pm
one to do the fly past and the other as a spare.

Ah, the F-35. You need two of them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 13, 2019, 01:02:33 pm
Ah, the F-35. You need two of them.
There was a fly past scheduled for a foreign dignitary and the nearest base is hundreds of miles away, not to send a spare aircraft would be just dumb. The Snowbirds and other teams take a backup aircraft for their shows in case one goes unserviceable
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 13, 2019, 01:09:03 pm
There was a fly past scheduled for a foreign dignitary and the nearest base is hundreds of miles away, not to send a spare aircraft would be just dumb. The Snowbirds and other teams take a backup aircraft for their shows in case one goes unserviceable

Which the F-35 seems very prone to do. Small things ya know, such as the engine exploding/catching fire.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 13, 2019, 02:10:32 pm
It will be interesting to see how the US responds to the attacks on two oil tankers in the Gulf of Oman, apparently carried out by Iran.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 13, 2019, 03:16:08 pm
Hey here's one possibility: Iran called up Trump and told him they have dirt on Joe Biden, but they won't divulge it unless he turns a blind eye to attacks on a couple of foreign oil tankers on one of those gulfs a long way from Washington. Trump said OK, now gimme, gimme, gimme.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 13, 2019, 04:12:25 pm
It will be interesting to see how the US responds to the attacks on two oil tankers in the Gulf of Oman, apparently carried out by Iran.
Correction: claimed by Trump administration officials that it was carried out by Iran.

So far, we do not have any sort of verification or confirmation that Iran was involved. No other country stepping forward to say they agree with the assessment, no outside evidence, no evidence provided, no statements from the CIA or other US Intelligence agencies (at least not that I'm aware of).

All we have are statements from people like Pompeo and Bolton on behalf of the Trump administration, the same people who were involved in ending the Iranian nuclear deal, were involved in the invasion of Iraq, and seem to be pushing for a confrontation with Iran. (And lets face it, the Trump administration is not exactly known for its honesty. Given Stubby McBonespur's personal disapproval ratings, it t would not be surprising that he may view a war with Iran as a way to improve his re-election chances.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 13, 2019, 04:17:24 pm
Correction: claimed by Trump administration officials that it was carried out by Iran.

So far, we do not have any sort of verification or confirmation that Iran was involved. No other country stepping forward to say they agree with the assessment, no outside evidence, no evidence provided, no statements from the CIA or other US Intelligence agencies (at least not that I'm aware of).

All we have are statements from people like Pompeo and Bolton on behalf of the Trump administration, the same people who were involved in ending the Iranian nuclear deal, were involved in the invasion of Iraq, and seem to be pushing for a confrontation with Iran. (And lets face it, the Trump administration is not exactly known for its honesty. Given Stubby McBonespur's personal disapproval ratings, it t would not be surprising that he may view a war with Iran as a way to improve his re-election chances.)

The Saudi minister of foreign affairs has spoken out suggesting it was the Iranians. Things heating up in the desert again it would seem.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 13, 2019, 04:21:16 pm
Hey here's one possibility: Iran called up Trump and told him they have dirt on Joe Biden, but they won't divulge it unless he turns a blind eye to attacks on a couple of foreign oil tankers on one of those gulfs a long way from Washington. Trump said OK, now gimme, gimme, gimme.
I doubt it.

Not that Trump is above such shady tactics. But the tankers don't really have much strategic purpose, and they were tankers from Norway and Japan, so its not like there was any symbolism involved. So I can't see much purpose for Iran to attack them in the first place.

More likely is that it was some 3rd party (some militia/terrorist group or country in the area) that wants to either destabilize the region or start an all-out war between the U.S. and Iran.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 13, 2019, 04:23:09 pm
Which the F-35 seems very prone to do. Small things ya know, such as the engine exploding/catching fire.
At the end of January there were over 350 in service in ten different countries.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 13, 2019, 04:37:38 pm
At the end of January there were over 350 in service in ten different countries.

At the same time as the US continues to upgrade 4th generation F18 and 15's so they have something dependable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 13, 2019, 04:40:07 pm
Quote
Correction: claimed by Trump administration officials that it was carried out by Iran.

So far, we do not have any sort of verification or confirmation that Iran was involved. No other country stepping forward to say they agree with the assessment, no outside evidence, no evidence provided, no statements from the CIA or other US Intelligence agencies (at least not that I'm aware of).
The Saudi minister of foreign affairs has spoken out suggesting it was the Iranians. Things heating up in the desert again it would seem.
Errrr... not sure if that really adds any credibility to the claim.

The Saudis and Iran are long-running geopolitical rivals, and given their recent murder and cover-up of a U.S. based journalist, I wouldn't really trust them much on this issue.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 13, 2019, 04:45:19 pm
The Saudi minister of foreign affairs has spoken out suggesting it was the Iranians. Things heating up in the desert again it would seem.
Errrr... not sure if that really adds any credibility to the claim.

The Saudis and Iran are long-running geopolitical rivals, and given their recent murder and cover-up of a U.S. based journalist, I wouldn't really trust them much on this issue.

Agreed, I wouldn't trust any of them as far as I could throw 'em. Just hope things don't heat up to where missiles start flying and a lot of innocents suffer the cosequences.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 13, 2019, 05:06:00 pm
Sarah Sanders and maybe also Kelly Anne Conway may be about to leave the WH. I hope they have good pensions because who in their right mind would hire these ridiculous people?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 13, 2019, 07:15:51 pm
At the same time as the US continues to upgrade 4th generation F18 and 15's so they have something dependable.

They F-15 design is almost 50 years old. By the time we retired them it would be 90 years old. The F-18, not much younger.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 13, 2019, 08:42:29 pm
They F-15 design is almost 50 years old. By the time we retired them it would be 90 years old. The F-18, not much younger.

Not enough engines and too much heat out of the one it does have. And the "one size fits all" attempt was perhaps a worthwhile idea but it turned out to be a machine that can fulfill different roles, just not all that well. And at a huge cost.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 13, 2019, 09:11:37 pm
Not enough engines and too much heat out of the one it does have. And the "one size fits all" attempt was perhaps a worthwhile idea but it turned out to be a machine that can fulfill different roles, just not all that well. And at a huge cost.
Early 747's could barely make it across the Atlantic without shutting down an engine. The F-35 has another 30 years or more of development ahead of it. There is only so much you can do to improve a 40 year old design and once major operators start phasing out their legacy jets, all future development will to into newer designs like the F-35.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 14, 2019, 11:35:36 am
I think the whole F-35 discussion is interesting, but its a bit off topic.

So, I've created a thread under general topics so that we can talk about the plane in general (in ways that don't reference Trump.)

https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/general-discussion/the-f35/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on June 14, 2019, 12:22:16 pm
They F-15 design is almost 50 years old.

The wheel design is at least 8000 years old. Just like the wheel, the F-15 has evolved to incorporate new technology.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 14, 2019, 12:57:24 pm
Seems like about all Trump has accomplished, at least of late, is to make up nick names to any/all of his opponents. Let's see, we have " 1 percent Biden, Sleepy Joe Biden, Swampy Joe Biden, Little Michael Bloomberg, Boot Edge Edge, Heartless Hillary, Slimeball James Comey" and on and on. Is this what the American taxpayer/voter really want for their efforts?
Here's an extended list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nicknames_used_by_Donald_Trump#Domestic_political_figures
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 14, 2019, 09:09:15 pm
Just watched the CNN special on first lady Melania. I was expecting it to be set up as a "cake walk" for her but it did probe deeper than I expected. All said and done it seems she is as boring as he is stupid. Frivolity prevails in the highest office in the US.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 15, 2019, 12:25:51 pm
The wheel design is at least 8000 years old. Just like the wheel, the F-15 has evolved to incorporate new technology.

Try adapting a wooden spoke wheel with a metal rim to a modern formula one car. The only thing they have in common is that they are both wheels.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 17, 2019, 09:19:01 am
Seems like about all Trump has accomplished, at least of late, is to make up nick names to any/all of his opponents.

He fired his pollster who dared to tell the Orange One that he trailed behind any Democrat candidate above Harris.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on June 17, 2019, 09:27:45 am
He fired his pollster who dared to tell the Orange One that he trailed behind any Democrat candidate above Harris.

At least he didn't have them killed like his BFF in North Korea.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 17, 2019, 09:46:05 am
He fired his pollster who dared to tell the Orange One that he trailed behind any Democrat candidate above Harris.

actually 3 companies were 'fired': Polling Company, Baselice & Associates and National Research Inc.. By mere coincidence, Cheeto is keeping the pollster, Fabrizio, whose data was given to the Ruskies by Manafort!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 18, 2019, 06:48:20 pm
Just listened/watched to comments from a bunch of Trump supporters who are out in the street waving signs around for his visit to Florida to kick off his campaign tonight. What a bunch of brain dead morons it seems. Most seemed to be beyond retirement age so perhaps a little dementia showing. One old fart when asked about some of Trumps "conflicting statements" was he "didn't believe his president has ever lied".

I think I need a double shot of single malt! 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 18, 2019, 08:21:57 pm
I think I need a double shot of single malt!

Do yourself a favour and ignore this bullshit circus.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 18, 2019, 09:02:53 pm
Do yourself a favour and ignore this bullshit circus.

Hopefully this bullshit show ends in 2020. Or even sooner if they get this impeachment thing going.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2019, 05:17:20 pm
Trump now says that if he is re elected he will cure cancer and wipe out aids once and for all. I guess when he's not "grabbing women because he's a star", or playing golf at Mara Lago, he must be in a medical laboratory doing research.

And his base will likely buy that BS too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2019, 06:19:18 pm
Trump invites Sarah Sanders to run for governor of Arkansas. If she does, and wins, I'm building a fuckin' wall.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2019, 11:52:33 am
JT is suffering through a visit with Trump, I suppose to talk about the new trade deal, but just watched a press briefing at the WH while this whole drone shoot down issue looms large. The good news I heard was that Trump thinks the act may have been simply a mistake so maybe he won't be launching missiles just yet.
But here's the really big news, just as the briefing was concluding, Trudeau coughed while Trump was talking. We all know Trump doesn't tolerate anyone coughing and kicks those who do out of the room so maybe JT will get to go home early.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2019, 03:14:51 pm
I am confused as to why with all the current technology (GPS) there is confusion/disagreement as to where this drone was when Iran shot it down. A number of miles difference which makes the difference as to who's airspace it was in.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on June 20, 2019, 04:02:21 pm
If elected President, I will cure cancer, solve world peace, and put a chicken in every pot.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 20, 2019, 06:49:48 pm
I am confused as to why with all the current technology (GPS) there is confusion/disagreement as to where this drone was when Iran shot it down. A number of miles difference which makes the difference as to who's airspace it was in.

And nobody cares about a damn drone.  Trump doesn't even seem to.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 21, 2019, 11:41:58 am
Well it seems Trump had the good sense to order a last minute call off on an airstrike in Iran when he found out it would kill ~150 Iranians, but how long does this last. Two of his hand picked swamp dwellers, namely Bolton and Pompeo, are both warmongers and I'm sure they will continue nudging their boss. They obviously want regime change/destruction of the Islamic Republic. Maybe if the POTUS took a look at what their sanctions are doing unfairly to the Iranian economy they would see why they are a bit PO'ed. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 21, 2019, 12:49:56 pm
I find it a tad scary that Trump would wait until 10 minutes before a strike was to be launched, and only then shut it down after he asks the question and finds out 150 people will be killed. He waited until 10 **** minutes before launch to find this out, and then talks about it on air. Right there he shows his incompetency to be Commander in Chief.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 21, 2019, 06:15:37 pm
It now looks like Trump may have taken advice to cancel the attack on Iran from........Tucker Carlson? Now I'm happy the attack didn't happen, but the CIC taking advice from the likes of.....Tucker Carlson? Dim witted Faux news hosts influencing US foreign policy is a bit scary I would say. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on June 22, 2019, 01:44:04 pm
taking advice from the likes of.....Tucker Carlson?

I don't know, is that a step up or a step down from Ann Coulter?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 22, 2019, 01:51:54 pm
I don't know, is that a step up or a step down from Ann Coulter?

Hmm, now that's a tough question. I guess the love affair between Anne and Donny is over since he now calls her a "whacky nut job". I would say that description is applicable to both, so I am no closer to an answer.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 22, 2019, 03:01:41 pm
Well it seems Trump had the good sense to order a last minute call off on an airstrike in Iran when he found out it would kill ~150 Iranians, but how long does this last. Two of his hand picked swamp dwellers, namely Bolton and Pompeo, are both warmongers and I'm sure they will continue nudging their boss. They obviously want regime change/destruction of the Islamic Republic. Maybe if the POTUS took a look at what their sanctions are doing unfairly to the Iranian economy they would see why they are a bit PO'ed.

Trump has been quite reluctant to use military action during his presidency.  He was also a critic of the Iraq War.  He's been using harsh rhetoric of course, but in action hasn't been militarily aggressive.  Which means, thankfully, that he's not completely insane.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 22, 2019, 03:28:28 pm
Trump has been quite reluctant to use military action during his presidency.  He was also a critic of the Iraq War.  He's been using harsh rhetoric of course, but in action hasn't been militarily aggressive.  Which means, thankfully, that he's not completely insane.

Well he had a strike set up against Iran which he called off either 10 minutes before, or 30 minutes before depending on which of his versions he's telling at the time.He says he called it off last minute because he found out 150 people would be killed. His military higher ups of course point out he was briefed well before that. That may not make him  completely insane, but it tells me he is unbalanced and not perhaps the guy we want with the nuclear codes at this disposal. (which I suspect he doesn't anyway in similar fashion as to how the military kept them out of the reach of Nixon).
But now he is threatening to impose even more sanctions against Iran, which will only inflame the relationship further. He should now be encouraging a valid third party negotiator instead of continuing to be a bull in a china shop.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 22, 2019, 04:19:19 pm
Trump tweeted out that "millions" were going to be deported by ICE, then it turns out there were about 2k actually on  the list, and now the raids are shut down. Yet another gong show.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 22, 2019, 05:29:41 pm
The whole "30 minutes before bombing it was stopped" thing could all be a ruse by Trump for posturing. Iran doesn't know if it was a bluff or not, which works in Trump's favour.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 22, 2019, 05:42:40 pm
The whole "30 minutes before bombing it was stopped" thing could all be a ruse by Trump for posturing. Iran doesn't know if it was a bluff or not, which works in Trump's favour.

It makes Trump look like an idiot yet again by divulging reasons for military decisions, especially when he caught his own military people off guard. It is more likely to work in Iran's favor. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 22, 2019, 10:51:26 pm
Yet another gong show.

You said it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 22, 2019, 11:01:18 pm
You said it.

I'm really starting to see why the term "whiplash" is so prevalent these days. Maybe Sarah Sanders stepped down to go for treatment on her neck.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 24, 2019, 10:52:56 am
Quote
Well it seems Trump had the good sense to order a last minute call off on an airstrike in Iran
Trump has been quite reluctant to use military action during his presidency.  He was also a critic of the Iraq War.  He's been using harsh rhetoric of course, but in action hasn't been militarily aggressive.  Which means, thankfully, that he's not completely insane.
Well, technically he was actually in favor of the war in Iraq, and it wasn't until well after the invasion that he became opposed to it.

Now, I'm not sure what's happening here... maybe he was remembering "Oh the last middle east war became unpopular so better not try that again". Maybe he is saving the possibility of bombing Iran until closer to the election (to give himself a last-minute bump in popularity.) Or maybe he doesn't see any profit in it for himself.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 24, 2019, 11:38:22 am
Trump has been quite reluctant to use military action during his presidency.  He was also a critic of the Iraq War.  He's been using harsh rhetoric of course, but in action hasn't been militarily aggressive.  Which means, thankfully, that he's not completely insane.
Well, technically he was actually in favor of the war in Iraq, and it wasn't until well after the invasion that he became opposed to it.

Now, I'm not sure what's happening here... maybe he was remembering "Oh the last middle east war became unpopular so better not try that again". Maybe he is saving the possibility of bombing Iran until closer to the election (to give himself a last-minute bump in popularity.) Or maybe he doesn't see any profit in it for himself.

My thinking on this issue was that Trump didn't want to get caught up in yet another middle east war with an election looming, so he decided to use sanctions instead of bombs. I also wouldn't be surprised if calling off the air strike wasn't staged in an attempt to get Trump a few brownie points. I doubt like hell his story about calling it off 10 minutes early simply because he just found out 150 people would be killed is anything but complete BS. The higher ups in the US military must be rolling their eyes. If, heaven forbid, he gets reelected that's when you might see the "fire and fury".   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 25, 2019, 11:36:27 am
in the latest allegation, Trump's defense centered on him first stating... "she's not my type"... followed up by him stating, "it never happened"!

E. Jean Carroll joins at least 21 other women in publicly accusing Trump of sexual assault or misconduct (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/21/18701098/trump-accusers-sexual-assault-****-e-jean-carroll) --- The accusations range from **** to unwanted kissing and groping.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 25, 2019, 11:44:42 am
in the latest allegation, Trump's defense centered on him first stating... "she's not my type"... followed up by him stating, "it never happened"!

E. Jean Carroll joins at least 21 other women in publicly accusing Trump of sexual assault or misconduct (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/21/18701098/trump-accusers-sexual-assault-****-e-jean-carroll) --- The accusations range from **** to unwanted kissing and groping.

I guess Trump didn't think of the logical implication of his statement. He didn't **** her simply because she wasn't "my type", otherwise...
Typical Trump, mouth in motion before brain engaged.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 25, 2019, 08:28:58 pm
Just hearing that Mueller has agreed to testify regarding his report, and in public, July 17. Looking forward to that. I bet I can guess who isn't!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on June 26, 2019, 08:36:39 am
I guess Trump didn't think of the logical implication of his statement. He didn't **** her simply because she wasn't "my type", otherwise...
Typical Trump, mouth in motion before brain engaged.

Are we to assume he's just too incompetent to understand how bad his comments look, or that he's purposely provocative so the public at large grow numb to the reams of outrageous behaviour. I think the latter approach is certainly working. It's hard to keep up with things that 45 does that, had it been any other President, would be massive scandals. He really has achieved his goal of up-ending the system.

It'll be amusing when/if a Democrat re-gains power in the White House to see the Republican establishment resume their moral purity over a Democratic president regarding treatment of the military, religion and fiscal responsibility. Things this POTUS spits in the face of but has the party bending to his will so they have to make excuses for him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 26, 2019, 11:26:13 am
Are we to assume he's just too incompetent to understand how bad his comments look, or that he's purposely provocative so the public at large grow numb to the reams of outrageous behaviour. I think the latter approach is certainly working. It's hard to keep up with things that 45 does that, had it been any other President, would be massive scandals. He really has achieved his goal of up-ending the system.

It'll be amusing when/if a Democrat re-gains power in the White House to see the Republican establishment resume their moral purity over a Democratic president regarding treatment of the military, religion and fiscal responsibility. Things this POTUS spits in the face of but has the party bending to his will so they have to make excuses for him.

I would agree that whether it's intentional or just basic buffoonery, Trump has effected a numbness among the people, especially his base, that seems to allow him to get away with things no others would. How often have we heard comments such as "what would have happened if Hilary had won and then done this or that"? I suspect that numbness, outside of his base, exists because the rest of the people know he'll be there for his term, (impeachment would not survive the senate) so it's easier to just ignore him and get on with their days work. I think the GOP has some serious divisions currently and if/when a Democrat takes back the WH the former will need to do a lot of fence mending.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 26, 2019, 01:18:59 pm
Whew now that was a bit of an emotional roller coaster ride. Just saw a segment on CNN where a new born baby  was found which had been wrapped in a plastic bag and abandoned in the woods somewhere in Georgia. That baby was so new she still had her umbilical attached. Luckily some people who lived nearby heard noises and phoned the police. There was video of an officer opening the bag revealing the baby who seemed well despite what had happened. The very next screen was that stupid little sleazebag they currently call the POTUS traipsing out to Marine One still flailing around about "no collusion, no obstruction" and also essentially glossing over the picture of the father and 2 year old daughter lying face down on the shore of the Rio Grande. I went from not being able to hold back from shedding a few tears to hurling a few high decibel four letter words at the screen. It's early in the day where I am but I may need a swig of Scotch anyway.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 26, 2019, 03:09:24 pm
Three weeks today Mueller goes public. Trump seems "**** baked". The folks who are trying to ignore the report may just find out there may have been collusion, there may have been obstruction, no matter how many hundred times Trump tries to deflect by misquoting the report.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 27, 2019, 10:41:13 am
Three weeks today Mueller goes public. Trump seems "**** baked". The folks who are trying to ignore the report may just find out there may have been collusion, there may have been obstruction, no matter how many hundred times Trump tries to deflect by misquoting the report.
Don't get your hopes up.

Not that I think Trump is innocent (there is more than enough evidence both in and outside the Mueller report) to justify impeachment and/or jail time for Stubby McBonespurs. But Mueller has been extremely careful to stick to certain legalese and terminology that just doesn't register with the general population.

It would be great if he would come out and say "Trump is guilty", or even "If I were prosecutor I would feel justified in taking this case to trial". But I don't think you're going to get anything like that. Probably more along the lines of "There is no evidence to exonerate the president". (Not enough to be convincing to the congress critters who would be involved with his impeachment, or the electorate that they have to answer to.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 27, 2019, 11:20:02 am
Don't get your hopes up.

Not that I think Trump is innocent (there is more than enough evidence both in and outside the Mueller report) to justify impeachment and/or jail time for Stubby McBonespurs. But Mueller has been extremely careful to stick to certain legalese and terminology that just doesn't register with the general population.

It would be great if he would come out and say "Trump is guilty", or even "If I were prosecutor I would feel justified in taking this case to trial". But I don't think you're going to get anything like that. Probably more along the lines of "There is no evidence to exonerate the president". (Not enough to be convincing to the congress critters who would be involved with his impeachment, or the electorate that they have to answer to.)

Yes my understanding of Mueller so far is that he will adhere strictly to what he has written in his report when he testifies however I'm hoping that if the questions are put properly it could help people who haven't read the report (obviously most people) to understand it's impact better.

Another thing that doesn't do much for my hopes is that the SC has just upheld the ability of political partys to continue gerrymandering electoral districts.  The GOP invented the practice, have by far the most experience at using it, and it's what got McBonespurs where he is. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 27, 2019, 02:05:42 pm
Interesting to read some comments as to the difficulties Rex Tillerson encountered during his time as secretary of state, especially having to deal with Kushner who was running around trying to represent himself as a ghost sec. of state. From listening to Kushners babbles I get the impression he is as much a dufus as is his daddy in law. All in all I can imagine Tillerson was relieved when he was fired.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/27/politics/tillerson-kushner-frustrations/index.html

Just as Tillerson had to handle the challenge of working with Kushner, he also experienced a learning curve in his working relationship with Trump. Tillerson said that the information he gave to Trump had to be brief in order for the President to absorb it.
"I learned to be much more concise with what I wanted to bring in front of him. Early days I came in with way too much information," Tillerson said. "It caused me to have to get very, very focused on, you know, what's the most important thing I want him to remember about this discussion."

And nothing like having "close personal ties" with high ranking Saudi murderers.

Despite his lack of experience, Kushner was immediately thrust into the center of US foreign relations -- with responsiibility for many tough issues facing the administration.
His portfolio has expanded to include a globe-spanning collection of foreign assignments.
But it was Kushner's involvement in issues related to the Middle East policy presented particular problems for Tillerson, especially those involving Saudi Arabia, as the President's son-in-law has maintained close personal ties with the Kingdom's Crown Prince, Mohammad bin Salman.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 27, 2019, 02:40:13 pm
Another thing that doesn't do much for my hopes is that the SC has just upheld the ability of political partys to continue gerrymandering electoral districts.  The GOP invented the practice, have by far the most experience at using it,
Well, to nitpick...

Gerrymandering actually began before the U.S. declared independence (before the modern republican party existed). And it was used by the Democrats as well as the repubublicans at various times.

However, I do think that the current GOP has elevated the practice to unheard of levels, and it really needs to be stopped.
Quote
...and it's what got McBonespurs where he is.
Well, technically gerrymandering works at the congressional district level. The presidency on the other hand involves winning the electoral votes of entire state, and state borders are not subject to gerrymandering.

Now perhaps its possible that Gerrymandering gave Trump and the republicans certain advantages (more power in the house than they would otherwise have, more control of lower levels of politics) that didn't directly benefit Trump, but still helped him along the way.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 27, 2019, 03:13:08 pm
Well, to nitpick...

Gerrymandering actually began before the U.S. declared independence (before the modern republican party existed). And it was used by the Democrats as well as the repubublicans at various times.

However, I do think that the current GOP has elevated the practice to unheard of levels, and it really needs to be stopped.Well, technically gerrymandering works at the congressional district level. The presidency on the other hand involves winning the electoral votes of entire state, and state borders are not subject to gerrymandering.

Now perhaps its possible that Gerrymandering gave Trump and the republicans certain advantages (more power in the house than they would otherwise have, more control of lower levels of politics) that didn't directly benefit Trump, but still helped him along the way.

Elbridge Gerry, which is where the name of the process comes from, was a governor of Mass. and a member of what was then called the Democratic-Republican party. And congressional districts are gerrymandered and presidential electors cast their votes based on those gerrymandered outcomes, so it does in fact affect the election of a POTUS. And yep, they should get rid of the EC but as I see today, the SC has agreed to let the party in power continue the process of gerrymandering so the will of the people could once again be thwarted by such an antiquated system.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 27, 2019, 03:46:39 pm
Elbridge Gerry, which is where the name of the process comes from...
That's where the name came from, but the process of drawing district lines to benefit one party over another actually predated him.

Quote
was a governor of Mass. and a member of what was then called the Democratic-Republican party.
Yes but the Democratic-Republican party dissolved in 1825. The current GOP republican party didn't exist until the mid-1800s, and doesn't really have a line-of-succession from the Democratic Republicans.
Quote
And congressional districts are gerrymandered and presidential electors cast their votes based on those gerrymandered outcomes, so it does in fact affect the election of a POTUS.
Actually almost all states have a winner-take-all rule for all electorial votes. So it doesn't matter how district lines are drawn... the electors from a state automatically select the candidate who got the most votes in the state (regardless of how they did in their local district).
Quote
And yep, they should get rid of the EC but as I see today, the SC has agreed to let the party in power continue the process of gerrymandering so the will of the people could once again be thwarted by such an antiquated system.
Yes, an unfortunate ruling (and we have the Turtle to blame for that as much as Trump.)

The only hope is that the democrats eventually gain power (through republican unpopularity and demographic changes that even the most blatant gerrymandering and voter surpression can't overcome).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 27, 2019, 04:21:22 pm
That's where the name came from, but the process of drawing district lines to benefit one party over another actually predated him.
Yes but the Democratic-Republican party dissolved in 1825. The current GOP republican party didn't exist until the mid-1800s, and doesn't really have a line-of-succession from the Democratic Republicans.Actually almost all states have a winner-take-all rule for all electorial votes. So it doesn't matter how district lines are drawn... the electors from a state automatically select the candidate who got the most votes in the state (regardless of how they did in their local district).Yes, an unfortunate ruling (and we have the Turtle to blame for that as much as Trump.)

The only hope is that the democrats eventually gain power (through republican unpopularity and demographic changes that even the most blatant gerrymandering and voter surpression can't overcome).

Most EC votes nowadays do follow the results of the popular vote but there is no constitutional requirement for them to do so, the results of which we saw back in 2000 and again in 2016. Lets hope the democrats select the best candidate from their huge crowd of contenders. The debate this evening should be interesting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 27, 2019, 04:41:13 pm
Quote
Actually almost all states have a winner-take-all rule for all electorial votes. So it doesn't matter how district lines are drawn... the electors from a state automatically select the candidate who got the most votes in the state (regardless of how they did in their local district)
Most EC votes nowadays do follow the results of the popular vote but there is no constitutional requirement for them to do so, the results of which we saw back in 2000 and again in 2016.
Actually the electoral college votes don't go to the person that won the most votes in the country, but just to the person who got the most votes in that state.

Thus, in 2016 Trump got every electoral vote in Florida, despite the fact that Clinton got 47% of the vote and had a majority support in over half a dozen counties. And Clinton got every electoral vote in Florida, despite the fact that Trump got 36% of the vote (and had majorities in 9 congressional districts.)
Quote
Lets hope the democrats select the best candidate from their huge crowd of contenders. The debate this evening should be interesting.
I'm worried about 2 things:
- The clown-car nature of the primaries... with so many people to chose from, its possible for a less-qualified candidate to 'sneak in' (much like Trump did in 2016... he didn't win majorities in any of the early primaries, but his opposition was divided.)
- A 'race to the left' by many people. Many people seem to simply over-estimate the desire for the American electorate for change.... this gives you things like "single payer" health care plans that so many politicians claim will be wildly popular, but which would actually be rejected by the majority.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 28, 2019, 12:17:55 am
Hey did anybody else just catch that live moment from Japan with Trump sitting beside his other luv buddy Putin where he leans over and tries to make a joke saying "don't meddle with our election"? If I was an American I would be very **** embarrassed right now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 28, 2019, 06:30:15 am
Oh my goodness. I'm shocked. The closeted old man not really from River Heights posted pornography! And he did so with a fake avatar. How rude!  This shall upset us all now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 28, 2019, 02:31:17 pm
Trump makes a joke about Russian meddling in the US election, which is essentially an invite to do so again, of course as long as it helps him stay in power and then goes on to make an equally stupid comment about "getting rid of journalists". Since Trump apparently reads **** all he probably doesn't know that Putin quiets journalists by simply murdering them. Dufus McBonespurs makes an ass of himself on the world stage once again.

As they sat for photographs at the start of their first formal meeting in nearly a year, the US president lightheartedly sought common ground with Putin at the expense of the journalists around them in Osaka.

“Get rid of them. Fake news is a great term, isn’t it? You don’t have this problem in Russia but we do,” Trump said.

To which Putin responded, in English: “We also have. It’s the same.”

 As they sat alongside each other, a reporter asked whether he was going to tell Putin not to meddle in the 2020 election.

Trump said: “Yes, of course I will,” drawing a laugh from Putin. Then, without looking at Putin, Trump said briskly: “Don’t meddle in the election, please,” and then repeated the phrase with a mock finger wag as Putin and the US secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, smiled broadly.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/28/smirking-trump-jokes-to-putin-dont-meddle-in-us-election-g20
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 28, 2019, 11:36:49 pm
Trump is pining to meet his lover Kim before he returns from the G 20 meeting, after joking with his other lover Vladi about how he messed with the previous election. And he'll probably get away with it again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 29, 2019, 02:31:46 pm
Well Trump once again cozies up to Vladimir Putin and MBS on stage at the current G20 meeting. And is now off to the DMZ to do likewise with Fat Kim. That will apparently conclude his latest show of appreciation for his current favorite group of murderous dictators. Where was Duterte I wonder.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 30, 2019, 01:09:02 am
Just watching Trump at the DMZ with his hairdo blowing in the wind, while he waits, and waits, for his buddy Kim to show up. I bet he's not happy having to wait. Oh well, it was his idea.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 30, 2019, 06:56:34 am
So Trump is now openly grovelling to a low level dictator and thug.

America is great again I guess.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 30, 2019, 11:27:11 am
Fox News' Tucker Carlson is traveling with the WH contingent in Korea... actually with, not simply a part of the, "media scrum". Apparently, stateFoxNews, intends to have Carlson interview Trump at length for tee-vee. Nobel Prize! Nobel Prize! Nobel Prize!

Quote from: Fox News' Tucker Carlson
You've got to be honest about what it means to lead a country, it means killing people. A lot of countries commit atrocities, including our allies... it's silly and stupid to point out KJU {Kim Jong-un} is 'so mean'


Quote from: U.S. Presidential Candidate, Joe Biden
(https://i.imgur.com/PVYq25C.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 30, 2019, 12:40:15 pm
Fox News' Tucker Carlson is traveling with the WH contingent in Korea... actually with, not simply a part of the, "media scrum". Apparently, stateFoxNews, intends to have Carlson interview Trump at length for tee-vee. Nobel Prize! Nobel Prize! Nobel Prize!

Good Gawd, Tucker has driven himself even lower into the muck with that little ditty. I get the creeps just looking at the idiot before he even opens his mouth. But he works for a shytehole "entertainment" channel, pretending to be a "news channel", which of course welcomes such inflammatory  nonsense. Shifting gears though, I was trying to ponder if something positive could possible flow from this little handshake at the DMZ. I guess any lessening of tensions internationally is worthwhile, although I imagine KJU knows damn well if he ever fired a missile at the US it would probably the last thing he ever did. Beyond that I was wondering if this little love in, odd as it seems, could result in some increased trade which could put a little more food on the tables of so many under nourished people in NK. Maybe that is wishful thinking but as the old saying goes "hope springs eternal".   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 30, 2019, 01:45:45 pm
I see Trump geeunier truly is a chip off the old block. He sends out a tweet challenging Kamala Harris' nationality. I guess he simply couldn't stand to have a Black woman rising in the polls while his white honkie daddy drifts down. Maybe daddy put him up to it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 30, 2019, 04:16:42 pm
Trump is now flogging some bullshit that Obama had "begged" for meetings with Fat Kim but was turned down. How low can this scumbag go? Kim is a scumbag too but unfortunately he seems to have the POTUS right where he wants him. Scary. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 01, 2019, 05:02:40 am
It strikes me today that you can look at the latest events in the context of a string of points of decline since about 1945.

Trump just made it clear how bad things really are.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 01, 2019, 12:04:48 pm
And I'm sure we've all heard by now that Trump, during his historic visit to NK, didn't bother to take someone appropriate to accompany him, such as his national security advisor John Bolton, oh no, he took Tucker Carlson. Of course Tucker says it's necessary to kill ones citizens whilst one is in power, so I'm sure that attitude was quite welcomed in Kims regime. And now we hear a "nuclear freeze" might be acceptable in lieu of denuclearization. Could it possibly be that Fat Kim outsmarted the two game show hosts who just paid him an official visit?   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 01, 2019, 01:34:35 pm
Ivanka Trump once again tries to take center stage where she totally doesn't belong including getting in front of Mike Pompeo for a photo shoot. I think if you look up NEPOTISM in your Oxford dictionary you will see a picture of her and daddy, probable fighting for center stage yet again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 01, 2019, 07:43:48 pm
The only thing that changes in me with each new story is how disgusted I am with the so-called American public for not only enduring this clown but supporting him to a significant level.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 01, 2019, 08:43:35 pm
The only thing that changes in me with each new story is how disgusted I am with the so-called American public for not only enduring this clown but supporting him to a significant level.

Don't let BC over at redneckville hear you say that about his mentor.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 01, 2019, 08:46:58 pm
He's so patriotic that he would support the president even if he was a Russian mole!!!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 01, 2019, 08:57:10 pm
He's so patriotic that he would support the president even if he was a Russian mole!!!

I'd say there's evidence he is a Russian mole. Joking to Putin about not interfering with the nest election is the most recent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 02, 2019, 09:32:37 pm
Looks like Trump is set to turn the 4th of July parade into nothing more than a military show not unlike what his buddies Putin and Fat Kim would do. I would be impressed if people just chose not to show up so as to give mister Mcbonespurs who didn't have the guts to serve, the middle finger he deserves.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on July 02, 2019, 11:19:41 pm
Looks like Trump is set to turn the 4th of July parade into nothing more than a military show not unlike what his buddies Putin and Fat Kim would do. I would be impressed if people just chose not to show up so as to give mister Mcbonespurs who didn't have the guts to serve, the middle finger he deserves.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZEO1yqw.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 02, 2019, 11:50:59 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/ZEO1yqw.jpg)

How the hell did those doves get left in there?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 02, 2019, 11:55:52 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/ZEO1yqw.jpg)

That's a good un Waldo.
Thks
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 03, 2019, 07:53:04 am
Excellent graphic.

PLEASE SHARE the border posts on Facebook and elsewhere.   Bring shame to them. 

The border guards apparently are taunting prisoners and have an online group where they make **** jokes.  Their supervisors encourage this.  This needs attention.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on July 03, 2019, 09:53:50 am
How the hell did those doves get left in there?

those are tweets! Other worthy details, like... Russian bears (one with a Russian flag), elephant riders as KKK, sheep in viewing stands, child in cage, MAGA smiley balloons, the ginormous red tie, Trumps soother
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on July 03, 2019, 10:01:39 am
Mark my words on this:

Migrants in the concentration camps are going to start going missing. They’ll attribute this to clerical errors and the conservatives will run hard with that narrative. In ten years when we’re still investigating the scope of this disaster, mass graves will be discovered in the deserts. I guarantee you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 03, 2019, 12:15:19 pm
Looks like the higher ups in the military are holding their noses and rolling their eyes as they follow the orders of their commander in chief and prepare to turn the 4th of July into a political/military might gong show. Apparently a number of the chiefs have decided they won't attend claiming they have "prior commitments". A portion of the extra costs for this event is being diverted from maintenance to national parks, and then of course the taxpayer will be on the hook for repairs to streets after the tanks roll down them. Ah but Trump will get his weird kind of jollies so that makes it all worthwhile, right?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 03, 2019, 01:28:41 pm
I am glad to see a permit has been issued to fly the diapered Trump balloon near where he will be speaking on the 4th. Maybe he'll try to get one of the tanks hes got around him to try and shoot it down.

A progressive group received permission Monday for their round, diapered Donald Trump baby balloon to be present during a July 4 celebration near the location where Trump will deliver remarks celebrating the nation's birthday.
The group, Code Pink, got approval from the National Park Service to have the balloon present between 4 a.m. and 9 p.m. ET on July 4 on a section of the National Mall near the Washington Monument. 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/02/politics/baby-trump-balloon-dc/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 03, 2019, 01:57:29 pm
Donald Trump is my personal and political hero.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on July 03, 2019, 03:42:26 pm
Looks like Trump is set to turn the 4th of July parade into nothing more than a military show not unlike what his buddies Putin and Fat Kim would do. I would be impressed if people just chose not to show up so as to give mister Mcbonespurs who didn't have the guts to serve, the middle finger he deserves.

Even if that did happen, he would lie about it and his sycophants would believe him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 03, 2019, 03:47:05 pm
Even if that did happen, he would lie about it and his sycophants would believe him.

Yes we all witnessed the obvious lies regarding the turnout for his inauguration. Of course the pictures of the wide open spaces were "fake news".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 03, 2019, 10:18:00 pm
Sounds like Trump is worried about the crowd size being noticeably low at his 4th parade tomorrow, kinda like how it also was for his inauguration. But he currently doesn't have staff paid liars such as Sean Spicer or Sarah Sanders to try and tell us what we see is not actually true. So what will he do? I guess keep the cameras focused on the tanks and planes and not on the crowd.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest67 on July 04, 2019, 08:52:21 pm
Sounds like Trump is worried about the crowd size being noticeably low at his 4th parade tomorrow, kinda like how it also was for his inauguration. But he currently doesn't have staff paid liars such as Sean Spicer or Sarah Sanders to try and tell us what we see is not actually true. So what will he do? I guess keep the cameras focused on the tanks and planes and not on the crowd.

You dream of Trump ****
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 04, 2019, 09:08:15 pm
You can always tell the closet cases. They're always talking about ****.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 05, 2019, 01:46:12 am
“In June of 1775 the Continental Congress created a unified Army out of the Revolutionary Forces encamped around Boston and New York, and named after the great George Washington, commander-in-chief. The Continental Army suffered a bitter winter of Valley Forge, found glory across the waters of the Delaware and seized victory from Cornwallis of Yorktown. Our Army manned the air, it rammed the ramparts, it took over airports, it did everything it had to do. And at Fort McHenry, under the rockets’ red glare, had nothing but victory. When dawn came, the star-spangled banner waved defiant.”

 -Donald J Trump, historian.

So successful was George Washington in seizing airports that by the end of 1775 there was not a single airport in North America under British control!

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 05, 2019, 02:30:42 pm
“In June of 1775 the Continental Congress created a unified Army out of the Revolutionary Forces encamped around Boston and New York, and named after the great George Washington, commander-in-chief. The Continental Army suffered a bitter winter of Valley Forge, found glory across the waters of the Delaware and seized victory from Cornwallis of Yorktown. Our Army manned the air, it rammed the ramparts, it took over airports, it did everything it had to do. And at Fort McHenry, under the rockets’ red glare, had nothing but victory. When dawn came, the star-spangled banner waved defiant.”

 -Donald J Trump, historian.

So successful was George Washington in seizing airports that by the end of 1775 there was not a single airport in North America under British control!

 -k

Well now to be fair, Donalds teleprompter gave out on him at the last minute. And even though he claims he "knew the speech very well", I doubt his speech writers are dumb enough not to know there weren't airplanes in 1775, apparently he is. "Damn teleprompter" 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 05, 2019, 03:14:24 pm
Well now to be fair, Donalds teleprompter gave out on him at the last minute. And even though he claims he "knew the speech very well", I doubt his speech writers are dumb enough not to know there weren't airplanes in 1775, apparently he is. "Damn teleprompter"

Trump tweeted about how dumb Obama was because he used a teleprompter.... 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 05, 2019, 03:15:29 pm
Trump tweeted about how dumb Obama was because he used a teleprompter....

Yes, only people who can read use a teleprompter.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 05, 2019, 03:23:42 pm
Trump tweeted about how dumb Obama was because he used a teleprompter....

The difference is that Obama didn't sound like a grade 3 student when he read from his teleprompter. And I bet he also has a pretty good idea of when airplanes came into existence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 05, 2019, 03:37:03 pm
I bet he also has a pretty good idea of when airplanes came into existence.

It was a dangerous time to be a fighter pilot during the revolutionary war.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 05, 2019, 03:40:36 pm
It was a dangerous time to be a fighter pilot during the revolutionary war.

Damn right, airports were so few and far between! And it's hard to fill a plane up with enough fuel for a hundred years or so.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 05, 2019, 03:57:56 pm
Damn right, airports were so few and far between!

That's why they invented the carrier.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 05, 2019, 04:52:02 pm
Rockets red glare was also the War of 1812. The British didn't start using rockets until 1806.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 07, 2019, 03:23:29 pm
Trump now gets caught using phony Istock videos to use for his re-election campaign ads. Perhaps it's getting a bit too difficult for him to find anybody honestly endorse him.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/07/03/trump-2020-campaign-ads-use-fake-istock-models-portray-supporters/1638361001/

NEW YORK – A series of Facebook video ads for President Donald Trump’s re-election campaign shows what appears to be a young woman strolling on a beach in Florida, a Hispanic man on a city street in Texas and a bearded hipster in a coffee shop in Washington, D.C., all making glowing, voice-over endorsements of the president.

“I could not ask for a better president,” intones the voice during slow-motion footage of the smiling blonde called “Tracey from Florida.” A man labeled on another video as “AJ from Texas” stares into the camera as a voice says, “Although I am a lifelong Democrat, I sincerely believe that a nation must secure its borders.”

There’s just one problem: The people in the videos that ran in the past few months are all actually models in stock video footage produced far from the U.S. in France, Brazil and Turkey, and available to anyone online for a fee.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on July 07, 2019, 04:57:06 pm
A Chant Of '**** Trump' Broke Out Live On Fox News After The US Women's World Cup Win (https://twitter.com/i/videos/1147928668087443456)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on July 07, 2019, 05:10:19 pm
https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/stuff-you-need-to-know/news/?message=50612
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 07, 2019, 05:13:43 pm
Hmm. I wonder if that might prompt him to now label his fav. go to channel as "fake news" as well. Or, since this occurred in France, he could use the applicable French term I have used foevva, "Faux news". 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 07, 2019, 08:53:59 pm
He just tweeted that FOX is losing it...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 07, 2019, 09:11:26 pm
He just tweeted that FOX is losing it...

I saw that. He now says Fox is worse than MSNBC, NBC, CNN, The NY Times, the Boston Globe etc. How will he get his word out now I wonder? Oh maybe his buddy will let him use Pravda.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 07, 2019, 10:57:44 pm
“I could not ask for a better president,” intones the voice during slow-motion footage of the smiling blonde called “Tracey from Florida.”

"Hi, I'm Tracey! I'm actually three Russian bots in a trench coat!"

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 07, 2019, 11:07:07 pm
"Hi, I'm Tracey! I'm actually three Russian bots in a trench coat!"

 -k

I suspect his followers will think the ads are all quite chic.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 08, 2019, 10:47:23 am
Well now to be fair, Donalds teleprompter gave out on him at the last minute. And even though he claims he "knew the speech very well", I doubt his speech writers are dumb enough not to know there weren't airplanes in 1775, apparently he is. "Damn teleprompter"
Yeah such a weird way to address the 'airports in the revolutionary war' gaff. It would have made more sense to claim "The teleprompter worked but my speechwriters made the mistake". By saying "the teleprompter failed" he's placing the blame for the mistake at his own feet.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 10, 2019, 01:24:05 pm
Trump and his two boys who run the Trump Doral golf course in Miami have now invited a strip club from Hieleah to bring their girls over for a two day event they are trying to promote as a "charity event" but which actually looks more like a **** house event where the girls, called Caddy Girls for this event, will be auctioned off to the highest bidder.

I wonder, did Epstein influence Trump, or was it the other way around?

The “Shadow All Star Tournament” is organized by the Shadow Cabaret, a strip club in Hialeah, Fla. Emanuele Mancuso, Shadow Cabaret’s marketing director, said in a telephone interview that this was the first time the club had held a tournament at Trump Doral.

The Trump name and family crest are displayed prominently in the strip club’s advertising materials, which offer golfers the “caddy girl of your choice.”

Mancuso said the strip club did not intend to send a political statement by choosing Trump’s resort. Rather, he said, the choice was for luxury. These golfers are VIPs, Mancuso said. “They deserve a VIP environment.”

https://boingboing.net/2019/07/09/trump-doral-resort-to-host-gol.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 11, 2019, 10:24:42 am
Trump and his two boys who run the Trump Doral golf course in Miami have now invited a strip club from Hieleah to bring their girls over for a two day event they are trying to promote as a "charity event" but which actually looks more like a **** house event where the girls, called Caddy Girls for this event, will be auctioned off to the highest bidder.
Why would any businessman want to be associated with an organization that is that sleazy and full of scam artists?

The Strip club should reconsider.

(Sorry, can't take credit for that...)

It does look like its been canceled however, after the charity that was supposed to benefit from the tournament backed out.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-trump-golf-strip-club-tournament-20190710-2azcqadx55forefyz4rhhrki34-story.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 11, 2019, 11:26:32 am
Why would any businessman want to be associated with an organization that is that sleazy and full of scam artists?

The Strip club should reconsider.

(Sorry, can't take credit for that...)

It does look like its been canceled however, after the charity that was supposed to benefit from the tournament backed out.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-trump-golf-strip-club-tournament-20190710-2azcqadx55forefyz4rhhrki34-story.html

Yeah I had heard there were rumblings among the overseers of this charity as to the image of this connection. Good for them for having backed out.We all have heard how Trump's buddy Epstein "benefited" underprivileged children.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 11, 2019, 05:06:56 pm
Just listened to Trump and his bum buddy fat boy Billy Barr crying their crocodile tears over having to abide by law and remove their citizenship question on the latest census form. Poor babies! They had to abide by the law. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 12, 2019, 01:10:09 pm
So there goes Acosta. What's that now, 13 cabinet members gone from the Trump gongshow! I guess if Acosta is not in a position to get Epstein off this time around he is no longer needed by Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 12, 2019, 05:04:58 pm
Also Paul Ryan finally spilled about working with Trump.  That explains Trump's tweet attack yesterday.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 12, 2019, 11:00:18 pm
Ryan was such a wimp when he was speaker, I can't take him seriously.

He never stood up to Trump when it mattered and also think he is indulging in revisionist history.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 12, 2019, 11:30:48 pm
Sort of like what Trump indulges in on a daily basis.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 13, 2019, 12:02:13 am
Pence should have stayed home instead of visiting a border detention center today.  He remained blissfully ignorant of his surrounding and then went on to spew the nonsense that I'm sure the WH had prepared for him to say as to how well managed these centers are. Reminded me of those wind up Barbie dolls. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 13, 2019, 01:24:57 am
Sort of like what Trump indulges in on a daily basis.

Not really. Ryan talked a good line when it came to Trump but where the rubber hit the road he was MIA.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on July 14, 2019, 12:45:06 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/8Det06T.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 14, 2019, 02:18:46 pm
Trump goes on another of his tweeter tirades telling 4 non white congresswomen they should return to "their countries" even though 3 of the 4 are natural born Americans. Of course the stupid son of a **** thinks there were planes flying around in the US back in the late 1700's. Will he ever read enough to get at least a few facts straight? Not likely. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 15, 2019, 11:25:47 am
Trump continues with his racist tweets/comments aimed at 4 duly elected congresswomen of color, and the response from his fellow republicans? A din of silence of course. It appears his approach to the upcoming election will be to continue to appeal to his base which got him elected in the first place. And why wouldn't he, he knows the "birds of a feather" thing, and the EC will probably be even more gerrymandered by then so the popular vote won't mean shyte, again! 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 15, 2019, 12:38:08 pm
It feels to me that these events are going to kill the Republican party for young people.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 15, 2019, 01:26:06 pm
Another new low by Trump.

What also doesn't make sense is that Pelosi tweets against the immigration deportations and #familiesBelongTogether.  So we have Trump, who wants to enforce cruel laws/policy like child separations & shoddy detention facilities, but on the other extreme we have democrats and progressive mayors across the country who do not believe in deportations at all and actively undermine federal efforts to enforce the laws of the USA.

Both Democrats and GOP are irrational about border policy.  There is no happy medium where laws are enforced sensibly and humanely so that the system is fair for everyone.  Americans wanted fairness and laws enforced on immigration, the democrats wouldn't do it, most GOP wouldn't do it, so they elected Trump to do it, but he goes to the other extreme and Americans are again unhappy, and rightfully so.

America has gone completely nuts, sadly its best days may truly be over and watching its slow decline is a shame.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 15, 2019, 01:51:55 pm
Another new low by Trump.

What also doesn't make sense is that Pelosi tweets against the immigration deportations and #familiesBelongTogether.  So we have Trump, who wants to enforce cruel laws/policy like child separations & shoddy detention facilities, but on the other extreme we have democrats and progressive mayors across the country who do not believe in deportations at all and actively undermine federal efforts to enforce the laws of the USA.

Both Democrats and GOP are irrational about border policy.  There is no happy medium where laws are enforced sensibly and humanely so that the system is fair for everyone.  Americans wanted fairness and laws enforced on immigration, the democrats wouldn't do it, most GOP wouldn't do it, so they elected Trump to do it, but he goes to the other extreme and Americans are again unhappy, and rightfully so.

America has gone completely nuts, sadly its best days may truly be over and watching its slow decline is a shame.

Trump, in many cases doesn't "enforce" cruel immigration laws, he simply promotes breaking the actual ones. Lengthy detention times is one in particular. He very simply does this in his attempt to "Make America White again". His base seem to support him. But yes, I agree the place is on a down hill slide under Trump/GOP. Especially as he continues to run rough shod over relationships with the US' strongest, most important allies to woo such idiot dictator murdurers like Fat Kim, Putin, MBS, etc.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 15, 2019, 05:21:57 pm
One thing that does worry me about what could well roll out of Trump's continious racist tweet storm against these women is their safety. I'm sure there are plenty of brain dead nitwit Trump followers who have guns, some of whom are probably warped enough to think they need to do their hero a favor by loading up and heading for the Capitol.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 16, 2019, 02:07:57 pm
What also doesn't make sense is that Pelosi tweets against the immigration deportations and #familiesBelongTogether.  So we have Trump, who wants to enforce cruel laws/policy like child separations & shoddy detention facilities, but on the other extreme we have democrats and progressive mayors across the country who do not believe in deportations at all...
I don't think that's exactly true...

I'm pretty sure that there are cases where even 'progressive' democrats will call for deportations.
Quote
and actively undermine federal efforts to enforce the laws of the USA.
Its true that some politicians (some on the left, but also some that are more 'libertarian') don't want laws enforced. But, in some cases, its a resource issue... If some illegal alien has been living in the U.S. for a few years, has never been in legal problems, and is actually contributing to society, going through the trouble of tracking them down and deporting them is probably a waste of resources. (Save the policing for more serious crimes.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 16, 2019, 02:22:21 pm
Kelly Anne Conway (once again) shoves her head up Trumps racist ass by flailing around demanding the ethnicity of a reporter who questioned her with regard to her boss's recent racist tweets/comments. She really is **** up and finally starting to show signs of losing her marbles. The reporter happened to be Jewish as well so the boss might just have to take her to the woodpile since he sems to reckon Jews are faultless.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 16, 2019, 02:35:55 pm
I don't think that's exactly true...

I'm pretty sure that there are cases where even 'progressive' democrats will call for deportations. Its true that some politicians (some on the left, but also some that are more 'libertarian') don't want laws enforced. But, in some cases, its a resource issue... If some illegal alien has been living in the U.S. for a few years, has never been in legal problems, and is actually contributing to society, going through the trouble of tracking them down and deporting them is probably a waste of resources. (Save the policing for more serious crimes.)

And Trump's recent ICE raids amounted to not much more than a "fart in a windstorm". Police forces in a number of the targeted cities announced they would refuse to assist ICE agents, and of course Trump announcing it in advance gave those who may have been a focus lots of time to prepare. Simply another feeble attempt to appeal to his knuckle dragger base.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 16, 2019, 06:52:59 pm
Its true that some politicians (some on the left, but also some that are more 'libertarian') don't want laws enforced. But, in some cases, its a resource issue... If some illegal alien has been living in the U.S. for a few years, has never been in legal problems, and is actually contributing to society, going through the trouble of tracking them down and deporting them is probably a waste of resources. (Save the policing for more serious crimes.)

The people Donald wanted deported in the raids were largely recent undocumented immigrants who were ordered to court by a judge but never showed up, so they were sent deportation orders but never showed up.  So in these cases, just like happens every day in Canada by the CBSA, US officials are sent in to arrest and deport them for violating the law.

But the Democrats, including Pelosi, feel bad for these immigrants because it "breaks up families".  But I don't see US politicians feeling bad for countless US citizens who are sent to jail every day for committing crimes and being torn from the crying arms of their spouses and kids.  It doesn't seem like a resources issue to me for Democrats, it seems like a moral issue.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 16, 2019, 06:56:05 pm
The people Donald wanted deported in the raids

Dotard said there were millions of people.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 16, 2019, 07:01:30 pm
Police forces in a number of the targeted cities announced they would refuse to assist ICE agents,

I don't understand why local police won't help the federal government enforce federal laws against people who have committed crimes.

But of course I know why, because these borderline-treasonous mayors are ordering them to not cooperate in order to virtue signal to their local liberal-leaning electorate who "feel bad" for the illegal migrants.

It's insanity. And then Trump puts kids in cages, so more insanity.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 16, 2019, 07:02:39 pm
Dotard said there were millions of people.

Trillions!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 16, 2019, 08:50:11 pm
I don't understand why local police won't help the federal government enforce federal laws against people who have committed crimes.

But of course I know why, because these borderline-treasonous mayors are ordering them to not cooperate in order to virtue signal to their local liberal-leaning electorate who "feel bad" for the illegal migrants.

It's insanity. And then Trump puts kids in cages, so more insanity.

Those so called "borderline-treasonous mayors" know damn well the people that Trump has targeted are people who have lived, worked, raised kids and contributed to their communities. One in particular interviewed yesterday said if you kicked all the people out who may have not showed up for an immigration hearing, the town would simply die. They are NOT the same type of criminals you so spuriously try to equate them with who courts send to prison. Your red neck may be showing a little bit there. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 16, 2019, 09:46:53 pm
Those so called "borderline-treasonous mayors" know damn well the people that Trump has targeted are people who have lived, worked, raised kids and contributed to their communities. One in particular interviewed yesterday said if you kicked all the people out who may have not showed up for an immigration hearing, the town would simply die. They are NOT the same type of criminals you so spuriously try to equate them with who courts send to prison. Your red neck may be showing a little bit there.

They aren't targeting people who have been here for 20 years.  The raids were for recent illegal migrants.

In Canada, if you come and overstay your visa, you're breaking the law. Then if you work without a work visa (or study visa that allows you to work), you're breaking the law again.  Since they wouldn't have a valid SIN number, they're almost always getting paid cash under the table, and not paying proper taxes, which is tax fraud, so again breaking the law.  People go to jail all the time for tax fraud.  These people aren't victims. If they were, they could claim refugee/asylum status, but they can't so they don't.  If you're a hard worker that we need, apply legally.

The US has 10+ million illegal migrants because of people who think as you do on this.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 16, 2019, 09:53:13 pm
They aren't targeting people who have been here for 20 years.  The raids were for recent illegal migrants.

In Canada, if you come and overstay your visa, you're breaking the law. Then if you work without a work visa (or study visa that allows you to work), you're breaking the law again.  Since they wouldn't have a valid SIN number, they're almost always getting paid cash under the table, and not paying proper taxes, which is tax fraud, so again breaking the law.  People go to jail all the time for tax fraud.  These people aren't victims. If they were, they could claim refugee/asylum status, but they can't so they don't.  If you're a hard worker that we need, apply legally.

The US has 10+ million illegal migrants because of people who think as you do on this.

Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes. Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Granny on July 16, 2019, 11:24:36 pm
Trump Clarifies ‘Back Where They Came From’ Remark To Congresswomen By Insisting He Was Talking About The Kitchen

https://www.burrardstreetjournal.com/trump-clarifies-back-where-they-came-from-remark-to-congresswomen-insisting-he-was-talking-about-the-kitchen/

Hahahahahaha!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 16, 2019, 11:55:01 pm
Trump Clarifies ‘Back Where They Came From’ Remark To Congresswomen By Insisting He Was Talking About The Kitchen

https://www.burrardstreetjournal.com/trump-clarifies-back-where-they-came-from-remark-to-congresswomen-insisting-he-was-talking-about-the-kitchen/

Hahahahahaha!
I suspect only the likes of Trump could conjure up such a feeble attempt at deflection. The rest of his followers have demonstrated similar laughable tries all day today.
Hahaha is of course an appropriate response but a little scary when one considers the office to which it applies! 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 17, 2019, 10:04:00 am
Quote
Trump Clarifies ‘Back Where They Came From’ Remark To Congresswomen By Insisting He Was Talking About The Kitchen

https://www.burrardstreetjournal.com/trump-clarifies-back-where-they-came-from-remark-to-congresswomen-insisting-he-was-talking-about-the-kitchen/

Hahahahahaha!
I suspect only the likes of Trump could conjure up such a feeble attempt at deflection. The rest of his followers have demonstrated similar laughable tries all day today.
Hahaha is of course an appropriate response but a little scary when one considers the office to which it applies!
Umm... not sure if you realize this, but I think the "go back to the kitchen" thing was actually satire/a joke. (Whereas Trump's "go back to your original country" was a real racist statement.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 17, 2019, 10:07:28 am
I don't understand why local police won't help the federal government enforce federal laws against people who have committed crimes.
How about the fact that "helping the federal government" to enforce immigration laws would require local police resources, in order to enforce laws against victimless crimes. If I were a resident of such a city, I'd prefer the cops be involved in investigating robberies and murders (things where people get hurt) rather than trying to track down someone who make be an illegal immigrant, but who hasn't robbed, stolen, or done anything to harm anyone.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 17, 2019, 10:11:37 am
Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes. Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security.
It should also be noted that while many illegal immigrants pay into things like social security and medicare (through taxes), they tend not to use those services. The end result is that, instead of being a drain on the country's finances, they actually help.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 17, 2019, 11:20:53 am
I see just now that articles of impeachment against Trump have been introduced to the house by Rep. Al Green of Texas and that this must be dealt with later this week. It will be interesting to see how Dems. dispose of this one. He should have perhaps held off until after Mueller testifies next week. Could be some impeach worthy items in what he has to say.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 17, 2019, 02:27:57 pm
...they're almost always getting paid cash under the table, and not paying proper taxes, which is tax fraud, so again breaking the law.  People go to jail all the time for tax fraud.  These people aren't victims.

What about those paying them under the table, they are the real crooks.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 17, 2019, 02:30:34 pm
I see just now that articles of impeachment against Trump have been introduced to the house by Rep. Al Green of Texas and that this must be dealt with later this week. It will be interesting to see how Dems. dispose of this one. He should have perhaps held off until after Mueller testifies next week. Could be some impeach worthy items in what he has to say.

I don't think the articles of impeachment Al Green introduced today have anything to do with collusion and obstruction, those are completely different issues. That said, there will be a loss of political capital if he is impeached on these ones and then found not-guilty by the corrupt Republican Senate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 17, 2019, 02:47:27 pm
I don't think the articles of impeachment Al Green introduced today have anything to do with collusion and obstruction, those are completely different issues. That said, there will be a loss of political capital if he is impeached on these ones and then found not-guilty by the corrupt Republican Senate.

I think Trump is tweaking the system for just such an event where he gets impeached in the house and then "exonerated" in the senate. He would then puff up his chest and maybe fluff up his hairpiece and prance around saying "see I told ya so", which is why I expect the dems in the house will vote to dismiss the articles. Probably the best strategy since it puts at least a strong consideration of impeachment next to Trump. I personally would love to see him dragged from the WH and then have to face the criminal, civil charges against him and see if he still brags about "grabbing women by the **** because he (thinks) he's a star".

And you are correct, racism does not rise to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors whereas obstruction certainly does so if you want to be serious about pursuing impeachment thats the path to follow.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 17, 2019, 04:00:28 pm
Daniel Dale tells us that one sure way to know that Trump is about to tell a lie is when he says that someone told him something by referring to him as "sir". I thought it was just that his lips were moving.

CNN’s fact-checking reporter Daniel Dale has pointed out what he believes is a surefire way to know if President Donald Trump is about to tell a tall tale.

On Tuesday’s broadcast of “Newsroom,” Dale told host Brooke Baldwin that Trump is usually about to lie “if he tells a story in which someone calls him “sir.”

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/donald-trump-lie-telltale-sign_n_5d1c6fcbe4b07f6ca58653ee
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 17, 2019, 08:35:59 pm
What about those paying them under the table, they are the real crooks.

Both the workers who work without visas/status and the companies who employ them are crooks. I agree the companies are much more crooked, the level of fraud they're committing is much higher.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 17, 2019, 08:52:56 pm
Both the workers who work without visas/status and the companies who employ them are crooks. I agree the companies are much more crooked, the level of fraud they're committing is much higher.

Americans wont do the work so farmers have to survive somehow. Under Trump's xenophobic approach your tomatoes will get REAL expensive, if you can find some.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 17, 2019, 09:08:52 pm
How about the fact that "helping the federal government" to enforce immigration laws would require local police resources, in order to enforce laws against victimless crimes. If I were a resident of such a city, I'd prefer the cops be involved in investigating robberies and murders (things where people get hurt) rather than trying to track down someone who make be an illegal immigrant, but who hasn't robbed, stolen, or done anything to harm anyone.

1 - But they don't cooperate because of resources, it's because of moral reasons.  Even doing something like sharing police records with the feds wouldn't take up a lot of resources.  Most of the Democratic hopefuls support free medical care for undocumented migrants, how is that good for resources?

2 - "Victimless crimes"?  How is multiple types of fraud victimless crimes?  Some of the victims are also the good law-abiding immigrants who leave the country when their visitor/work/study visas expire and they have to go back home, or when their immigration/asylum claims are rejected, as per the law.  The law-abiders are just suckers while the crooks get to stay & are rewarded for breaking the law.  The laws exist for a reason, and Canada has the same ones, because you want immigrants in the country who deserve to be here (legit refugees) or will be the most benefit to the country (highly educated/skilled). The whole system is based on a country being able to choose which migrants should be able to live here, not the migrants being able to choose.

What about the human trafficking?  Sex trafficking? Child trafficking?  Do you realize how many parents take their kids illegally over the border without the other parent's consent (kidnapping) because of some kind of domestic dispute or custody situation in their home country?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 17, 2019, 09:22:08 pm
Americans wont do the work so farmers have to survive somehow. Under Trump's xenophobic approach your tomatoes will get REAL expensive, if you can find some.

If America needs farm workers, which they do, Americans should be able to choose which workers are able to come and work in the country and which ones do not.  This way, everything is on the books, criminal record checks and medical checks are done, everyone is paying proper taxes, abiding by labour laws (so workers aren't taken advantage of) etc.

In Canada every farming company (and any company of any kind for that matter) that wants a foreign worker(s) needs to pass a LMIA (Labour Market Impact Assessment), meaning they have to show they have advertised the job to Canadians for a certain period of time but can't find domestic candidates so foreign workers are needed and so won't negatively impact the domestic labour market.  Same things happens if ie: a French restaurant needs a French chef but none exist to be hired (skills shortage) and they need to bring in a chef from France.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/work-canada/hire-foreign-worker/temporary/temporary-foreign-worker-program.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 17, 2019, 09:29:20 pm
If America needs farm workers, which they do, Americans should be able to choose which workers are able to come and work in the country and which ones do not.  This way, everything is on the books, criminal record checks and medical checks are done, everyone is paying proper taxes, abiding by labour laws (so workers aren't taken advantage of) etc.

In Canada every farming company (and any company of any kind for that matter) that wants a foreign worker(s) needs to pass a LMIA (Labour Market Impact Assessment), meaning they have to show they have advertised the job to Canadians for a certain period of time but can't find domestic candidates so foreign workers are needed and so won't negatively impact the domestic labour market.  Same things happens if ie: a French restaurant needs a French chef but none exist to be hired (skills shortage) and they need to bring in a chef from France.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/work-canada/hire-foreign-worker/temporary/temporary-foreign-worker-program.html

The farm worker cross border activity has been going on for decades and those farmers will continue to support that activity regardless of Trump's or others xenophobia. Stepping up the documentation process of such workers is fine, building " a beautiful wall" is just plain stupid. But Trump demonstrates his stupidity almost daile these days.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 18, 2019, 11:22:23 am
I would rather pay more for tomatoes
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 18, 2019, 11:25:16 am
Quote
Americans wont do the work so farmers have to survive somehow. Under Trump's xenophobic approach your tomatoes will get REAL expensive, if you can find some.
If America needs farm workers, which they do, Americans should be able to choose which workers are able to come and work in the country and which ones do not.  This way, everything is on the books, criminal record checks and medical checks are done, everyone is paying proper taxes, abiding by labour laws (so workers aren't taken advantage of) etc.
Great idea.

Unfortunately, the work is very difficult, and the only people that would be interested in doing the work (at lower wages) are people from what Trump would label "*-hole countries", and with Stubby McBonespurs in charge, the U.S. is cutting back on immigration. They are setting up a no-win situation: Won't admit enough legal immigrants to do the work, trying to stop illegal immigrants from coming in to do the work.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 18, 2019, 11:28:01 am
I would rather pay more for tomatoes
You might. But remember, increases in farming costs due to higher wages will affect more than just you. It will also impact lower-wage individuals, those on fixed income (welfare and/or pensions). Are you willing to see your taxes go up to help pay more to senior citizens who have seen their food budgets increase?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 18, 2019, 11:34:25 am
Looks like Trump could have a few more bumps on his road as prosecutors have concluded their investigations into hush money payments made during Trump's campaign for POTUS to silence Stormy Daniels/Karen McDougal. Those documents conclude criminal activity occurred will now be unsealed and presented without redaction and Trump is specifically named. No more hiding as "individual one".

While Cohen had pleaded guilty, others involved in the payments remained uncharged, including Trump himself as well as executives at the Trump Organization.

Now, though, prosecutors have informed the court that they’ve concluded the investigation, clearing the way for the release of documents related to the case.

The judge rejected a request by prosecutors to black out portions of the documents to protect third-party privacy interests, saying the records involved a “matter of national importance.”

https://time.com/5628390/documents-stormy-daniels-cohen/

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 18, 2019, 11:43:09 am
Quote
How about the fact that "helping the federal government" to enforce immigration laws would require local police resources, in order to enforce laws against victimless crimes. If I were a resident of such a city, I'd prefer the cops be involved in investigating robberies and murders (things where people get hurt) rather than trying to track down someone who make be an illegal immigrant, but who hasn't robbed, stolen, or done anything to harm anyone.
1 - But they don't cooperate because of resources, it's because of moral reasons.  Even doing something like sharing police records with the feds wouldn't take up a lot of resources.
Keep in mind that "a lot" of resources doesn't mean "no" resources.
Quote
Most of the Democratic hopefuls support free medical care for undocumented migrants
Not sure if that's exactly correct.

Some of the Democrats have supported free health care; many (most) support allowing Immigrants to purchase insurance through 'obamacare', which isn't exactly free.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/07/2020-democrats-undocumented-health-care/593761/

Quote
how is that good for resources?
As has been pointed out before...

Many immigrants do pay into various social programs (through taxes at various levels of government). So they're paying into a system even when they aren't going to receive many of the benefits.

Quote
2 - "Victimless crimes"?  How is multiple types of fraud victimless crimes?
...
What about the human trafficking?  Sex trafficking? Child trafficking?
What about them?

Those things are illegal and that's the type of crime that the government should be investigating. But going after random illegal immigrants who have shown no evidence of engaging in those crimes seems like a waste of resources. I'm pretty sure even the most **** democrat would have no problem arresting illegal immigrants engaged in those crimes.

Overall, illegal immigrants engage in fewer violent crimes per-capita than natural-born Americans. If the U.S. really wants to cut down the rate of murder, assault, and robbery, they should let in as many illegal immigrants as they can! (Not that I'm suggesting they do, just the claim that "the immigrants are bringing crime" is false.)

Quote
Do you realize how many parents take their kids illegally over the border without the other parent's consent (kidnapping) because of some kind of domestic dispute or custody situation in their home country?
Yes, I'm sure it happens. It also happens where the victim of abuse has tried to escape by fleeing to another country, and if that country is the U.S.? Well, you're out of luck. Go back to your own country!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 18, 2019, 11:47:15 am
Are you willing to see your taxes go up to help pay more to senior citizens who have seen their food budgets increase?

Yes, we need everyone - repeat <b>every last single individual</b> to have a livable income or our economy can only be judged as a massive failure. The gross income disparity we have in our society is a reflection of extreme bad economic policies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 18, 2019, 11:47:53 am
Looks like Trump could have a few more bumps on his road as prosecutors have concluded their investigations into hush money payments made during Trump's campaign for POTUS to silence Stormy Daniels/Karen McDougal. Those documents conclude criminal activity occurred will now be unsealed and presented without redaction and Trump is specifically named. No more hiding as "individual one".

While Cohen had pleaded guilty, others involved in the payments remained uncharged, including Trump himself as well as executives at the Trump Organization.
To me this is both good and bad.

Good in the fact that more of the... questionable activities by Trump and his clan might become known to the public.

Bad in the fact that we aren't seeing people subject to legal charges in all of this.

Overall, I think it would be more effective to see a few Republicans and/or Trump executives in court; after all, if its just documents describing the crimes, its easier for Trump supporters to ignore.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 18, 2019, 12:02:04 pm
To me this is both good and bad.

Good in the fact that more of the... questionable activities by Trump and his clan might become known to the public.

Bad in the fact that we aren't seeing people subject to legal charges in all of this.

Overall, I think it would be more effective to see a few Republicans and/or Trump executives in court; after all, if its just documents describing the crimes, its easier for Trump supporters to ignore.

Well Cohen is already "pounding rocks in the hot sun" and now that the investigations are complete, these documents could lead to further prosecutions, including Trump, especially after he leaves office. Between issues like this and whatever Mueller comes up with next week perhaps it's time for the SCOTUS to deal with this "presidential immunity from prosecution" issue.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 18, 2019, 12:10:24 pm
Can't wait until this is over...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 18, 2019, 01:25:10 pm
Quote
To me this is both good and bad.

Good in the fact that more of the... questionable activities by Trump and his clan might become known to the public.

Bad in the fact that we aren't seeing people subject to legal charges in all of this.
Well Cohen is already "pounding rocks in the hot sun" and now that the investigations are complete, these documents could lead to further prosecutions,
Not sure how that is supposed to happen, since the people who would have been most likely to lay the charges have said "investigation done... no more charges".
Quote
...including Trump, especially after he leaves office.
Its possible Trump might be caught in this legally. But he needs to be removed from office first.

Seeing many of his former collaborators up on legal charges might have helped him lose the 2020 election. Sadly, we won't have that as an issue now.

Quote
Between issues like this and whatever Mueller comes up with next week perhaps it's time for the SCOTUS to deal with this "presidential immunity from prosecution" issue.
I suspect Mueller's testimony won't really be all that useful. He'll probably just say "my report is the evidence. I can't comment on guilt or innocence. Its protocol not to indict a sitting president."

What I would like to see is Mueller answer one question: If you were working as a prosecutor and Trump was no longer sitting president, would you have pursued charges against Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 18, 2019, 01:47:09 pm
Well Cohen is already "pounding rocks in the hot sun" and now that the investigations are complete, these documents could lead to further prosecutions,
Not sure how that is supposed to happen, since the people who would have been most likely to lay the charges have said "investigation done... no more charges".Its possible Trump might be caught in this legally. But he needs to be removed from office first.

Seeing many of his former collaborators up on legal charges might have helped him lose the 2020 election. Sadly, we won't have that as an issue now.
I suspect Mueller's testimony won't really be all that useful. He'll probably just say "my report is the evidence. I can't comment on guilt or innocence. Its protocol not to indict a sitting president."

What I would like to see is Mueller answer one question: If you were working as a prosecutor and Trump was no longer sitting president, would you have pursued charges against Trump.

Muellers report indicates at least 10 occurrences of obstruction by Trump. He of course goes the route of saying a sitting POTUS cannot be indicted because he abides by the Justice Dept. conclusion. However that could be updated by higher courts. I hope congress has the right people asking the right questions when Mueller testifies before them next week.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 18, 2019, 04:47:52 pm
Yes, I'm sure it happens. It also happens where the victim of abuse has tried to escape by fleeing to another country, and if that country is the U.S.? Well, you're out of luck. Go back to your own country!

Well let's remember i'm not defending Trump's policies in general.  If you have a legit asylum claim, you should be able to make one at the border.  My original argument in this thread was that on one hand a bunch of Trump's/GOP's immigration policies are inhumane and too heavy-handed, while on the other hand many Democrats are far too lenient on illegal immigration.

There needs to be a sensible immigration policy between these 2 extremes.  Human rights of migrants need to be respected, but migration also needs to be lawful and orderly, and everything on the books as much as possible so that the system is democratic, follows the rule of law, and is fair for everyone. 

US companies need farming workers, so there should be a system to bring them in legally.  I think you can clean up and fix the system without going to the extremes Trump has.  The border and migration system needs to be secured, then they can talk about what to do with undocumented migrants already in the US, like path to citizenship or whatever.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 19, 2019, 10:57:08 am
My original argument in this thread was that on one hand a bunch of Trump's/GOP's immigration policies are inhumane and too heavy-handed, while on the other hand many Democrats are far too lenient on illegal immigration.
How come, when you're talking about the Democrat's approach to illegal immigration, you're referring to what "many Democrats" think, rather than going with the party's policy as a whole? Very few democrats are in favor of full "open borders/everyone can come in".

Remember, when Obama and Clinton were president, people did get deported. (The Obama administration focused on people who had broken the law and/or were recent arrivals.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: queenmandy85 on July 19, 2019, 12:07:12 pm
I hesitate to criticize a legally elected leader of another country because I am one of those people who objects to foreigners telling Canada how we should run our country.
From a purely political measure, President Trump is a good politician. He got elected. I believe at this point in time he will be re-elected, not because of his qualities as a President or a person, but for his qualities as a politician. He is an impressive marketer. In 2016, in spite of everyone saying he could not get the nomination, he manipulated the media into framing the question as how can he be stopped. He made his nomination and election seem inevitable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 19, 2019, 12:36:49 pm
I hesitate to criticize a legally elected leader of another country because I am one of those people who objects to foreigners telling Canada how we should run our country.
From a purely political measure, President Trump is a good politician. He got elected. I believe at this point in time he will be re-elected, not because of his qualities as a President or a person, but for his qualities as a politician. He is an impressive marketer. In 2016, in spite of everyone saying he could not get the nomination, he manipulated the media into framing the question as how can he be stopped. He made his nomination and election seem inevitable.

Trump was "legally" elected by a heavily gerrymandered electoral college system and not "by the people". If he wins again in 2020 it will very likely be due to an even further "fixed" EC system which congress will get done after the current census is complete and they know where to draw the boundaries to ensure a Trump win.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: queenmandy85 on July 19, 2019, 12:58:12 pm
It is still legal.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 19, 2019, 01:02:50 pm
I hesitate to criticize a legally elected leader of another country because I am one of those people who objects to foreigners telling Canada how we should run our country.
"Legally elected" is questionable, given Russian interference in the electoral process (not to mention possible campaign finance violations)
Quote
From a purely political measure, President Trump is a good politician. He got elected.
That doesn't necessarily mean he is "good". He is a con artist who is capable of playing to his gullible base. But, his win in 2016 has as much to do with outside factors that have nothing to do with his abilities:
- The democrats picked a candidate that, while a capable politician, had been subject to decades of smear campaigns (to the result that if you say the word 'Benghazi', a republican will have an orgasm)
- Often the 2 main parties swap the presidency every 2 or 3 terms.... Clinton had 2 terms, then the republicans took the white house. The shrub had 2 terms, then the Democrats took the white house. After 2 Obama terms, its not surprising that the pendulum would swing the other way
- Voter suppression efforts by the Republicans
- As mentioned before, Russian interference
- The electoral college currently favors republicans, since rural states (where the republicans have most of their support) have more political weight than urban areas.

Yet despite all those advantages, he still barely won the election (his victory came down to a few thousand votes in 3 states, and he did lose the popular vote.) And since the election, his popularity has foundered around the 40% mark, never rising above 50% in over 2 years, despite having an extremely strong economy.

That's not the sign of a good politician... that's the sign of someone who just got lucky.
Quote
I believe at this point in time he will be re-elected, not because of his qualities as a President or a person, but for his qualities as a politician.
He may get re-elected, but it won't be because of his "qualities as a politician". It will be because of the extreme polarization of the American electorate (along with racism), and more electoral interference by the russians.

Personally, I think he will likely lose. He is good at playing to his base, but as I said his margin of victory in 2016 was extremely small. Republicans losing even a few voters who think "I gave Trump a chance, but he was a disappointment", or the democrats picking up a few voters who foolishly sat out 2016 but have learned their lesson, will tip the scales to the democrats. (Plus, there has been a slow, gradual demographic shift which favors the democrats.)

I'm not saying its a sure thing; I just think its the most likely scenario.

And if the economy starts to slow down any more? Well, he's toast.
Quote
He is an impressive marketer con artist.
Fixed it for you.

And keep in mind that at least some of his reputation as a 'marketer' is because of his luck in being born into a wealthy family. (Its easy to market yourself if you're rich...)
Quote
In 2016, in spite of everyone saying he could not get the nomination, he manipulated the media into framing the question as how can he be stopped. He made his nomination and election seem inevitable.
He took the media by surprise in 2016. Many news outlets admit they made a mistake in thinking "Trump=ratings", and not fact-checking his rantings appropriately.

I think reporters may be more on their toes this time.

Overall, I consider Trump to be a "forrest Gump" character... not particularly intelligent, and incompetent at many things. But, who manages to find success largely through luck. He was lucky he was born into a wealthy family. (Had he been born into a middle class family, he'd probably be working at McDonalds, asking people "Would you like a large fry with your order? They're YUGE!")  He didn't create The Apprentice.... that was Mark Burnett; Trump just benefited from the work done by others. He won the republican nomination, but the GOP had a 'clown car' primary, with so many candidates that they could easily win early contests even if they didn't have wide support. He won the election, but against an unpopular candidate and with Russian interference.

Change any of those details... make Trump the son of a blue collar worker, Have Burnett pick anyone else to be the host of The Apprentice, have the republican primaries include only 2 or 3 candidates, and you wouldn't have "President Stubby McBonespurs".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 19, 2019, 01:16:16 pm
Trump was "legally" elected by a heavily gerrymandered electoral college system and not "by the people". If he wins again in 2020 it will very likely be due to an even further "fixed" EC system which congress will get done after the current census is complete and they know where to draw the boundaries to ensure a Trump win.
Gerrymandering does not impact the presidential election, it impacts only congressional (house) elections. (In virtually all states, presidental electoral votes are allocated on a winner-take-all basis for the entire state.)

That doesn't necessarily mean that Trump's election was entirely legal... There was interference in the election by the Russians, and there were illegal campaign finance violations that helped Trump.

You also have voter suppression. (See: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/10/voter-suppression-wisconsin-election-2016/)

It is true that the Electoral college does currently favor the republicans (and doesn't necessarily reflect popular support), but that is legal.


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 19, 2019, 01:21:24 pm
Trump got a lot of backlash after allowing his Trumptards in North Carolina to chant away about "send her back", so he tried to recover the next day with his typical deflection bullshit by saying he "didn't like that chant". Today he is back supporting those chants. I swear this man is showing obvious signs of dementia. I hope the "football" (nuclear launch codes) that is anywhere near him is as phony as the one that used to accompany Nixon when he was losing his marbles.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 19, 2019, 01:25:00 pm
Gerrymandering does not impact the presidential election, it impacts only congressional (house) elections. (In virtually all states, presidental electoral votes are allocated on a winner-take-all basis for the entire state.)

That doesn't necessarily mean that Trump's election was entirely legal... There was interference in the election by the Russians, and there were illegal campaign finance violations that helped Trump.

You also have voter suppression. (See: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/10/voter-suppression-wisconsin-election-2016/)

It is true that the Electoral college does currently favor the republicans (and doesn't necessarily reflect popular support), but that is legal.

Sorry but yes it does.

When the US Supreme Court takes up the issue of partisan gerrymandering this year, they will decide not only the fate of popular control in the House of Representatives and many state legislatures, but quite possibly the Presidency as well. If four Republican controlled state governments (Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Florida) change the way they allocate Electoral College votes, President Trump could be re-elected in 2020, even if he loses the popular vote by 6 percentage points. All the states need do is to allocate Electoral College votes by congressional district (like Nebraska and Maine), instead of giving all of the state’s electors to the statewide winner.

Of course, this strategy only works to the benefit of the Republicans because the congressional districts in these states are heavily gerrymandered.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2017/02/08/gerrymandering-the-presidency-why-trump-could-lose-the-popular-vote-in-2020-by-6-percent-and-still-win-a-second-term/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 19, 2019, 01:49:01 pm
Sorry but yes it does.

When the US Supreme Court takes up the issue of partisan gerrymandering this year
I thought they already decided, 5-4, that the courts could not interfere with partisan Gerrymandering.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/06/supreme-court-gerrymandering-census/592819/

[quote\they will decide not only the fate of popular control in the House of Representatives and many state legislatures, but quite possibly the Presidency as well. If four Republican controlled state governments (Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Florida) change the way they allocate Electoral College votes, President Trump could be re-elected in 2020, even if he loses the popular vote by 6 percentage points. All the states need do is to allocate Electoral College votes by congressional district (like Nebraska and Maine), instead of giving all of the state’s electors to the statewide winner.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2017/02/08/gerrymandering-the-presidency-why-trump-could-lose-the-popular-vote-in-2020-by-6-percent-and-still-win-a-second-term/[/quote]
I didn't think a state could change its allocation of electoral college votes until after the 2020 census.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 19, 2019, 01:59:49 pm
The census is due in April, the election not until November.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 19, 2019, 02:10:02 pm
How come, when you're talking about the Democrat's approach to illegal immigration, you're referring to what "many Democrats" think, rather than going with the party's policy as a whole? Very few democrats are in favor of full "open borders/everyone can come in".

Remember, when Obama and Clinton were president, people did get deported. (The Obama administration focused on people who had broken the law and/or were recent arrivals.)

I'm not saying democrats believe in " full open borders/everyone can come in".  Yes Obama's policy seemed to be decently reasonable. 

I refer to "what many democrats think" because the Democrats are not a cohesive unit, they all have different views and unlike Canada they're all able to vote how they wish not as a party as a whole, plus i'm also talking about Democrat mayors, governors, and the dozen+ POTUS nominee candidates.

My post was as non-partisan and reasonable as i could possibly make it, yet you still found something partisan about it.  I give up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on July 19, 2019, 02:10:18 pm
The census is due in April, the election not until November.

When are the census results to be released? It is generally a very long process.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 19, 2019, 02:15:18 pm
The US doesn't need a Trump and they don't need a Bernie. They need a reasonable moderate able to unite the country instead of Trump bringing the GOP further to the right and Bernie/AOC etc bringing the Democrats further left.  The US has gone mad.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 19, 2019, 02:17:15 pm
The census is due in April, the election not until November.
The start date/reference date of the Census is in april. That does not mean that the results will be tabulated in April (or even by the end of the year.)

Maybe some states may try re-allocating their electoral college seats before then; I just didn't think they were allowed to.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 19, 2019, 03:23:30 pm
When are the census results to be released? It is generally a very long process.

I stand corrected, the census results won't be known until December so will not be used for re-redistricting until 2022. I guess Trump will have to try and get by with the currently rigged system. Hey it worked last time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 19, 2019, 03:30:13 pm
The US doesn't need a Trump and they don't need a Bernie. They need a reasonable moderate able to unite the country instead of Trump bringing the GOP further to the right and Bernie/AOC etc bringing the Democrats further left.  The US has gone mad.
You're right... there does seem to be a shift to the extremes of the political spectrum.

The problem is, when Obama was in charge, he acted like a moderate/centrist. The republicans meanwhile resorted to obstruction and extremism.

There is just no benefit to the democrats to be moderate any more, since any attempt at bipartisanship is going to be met with obstructionism.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 21, 2019, 02:13:06 pm
I can imagine anyone who has been following Trump at all must be suffering from serious whiplash, especially from his latest tack changes over his racist tweets toward the 4 congresswomen he NOW claims were all about patriotism. One can only conclude from what he has laid down is that his wife must now be sent back to Slovenia, especially since she apparently disagreed with Trump over his tweets. Hopefully he will have the good grace to accompany her, and we can remove our neck braces.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 21, 2019, 06:05:06 pm
You're right... there does seem to be a shift to the extremes of the political spectrum.

The problem is, when Obama was in charge, he acted like a moderate/centrist. The republicans meanwhile resorted to obstruction and extremism.

There is just no benefit to the democrats to be moderate any more, since any attempt at bipartisanship is going to be met with obstructionism.

The point of being more moderate would not be to appease the GOP in any way, it would be to heal this country and get it back on track and get as many voters on board.  The GOP base, somewhere around 30% of voters, won't vote Democrat no matter who the candidate is. Swing voters determine elections, every single time, and they are more moderate.  These are the voters that gave the Democrats 41 more seats in the House of Reps in the 2018 midterms compared to the 2016 House elections because they dislike what Trump & the GOP-controlled Congress they had elected were doing.

I'm tired of rightwing and leftwing idealogues in office. Common sense is dying.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 22, 2019, 12:42:30 am
I don't watch much news on tv,  Just saw the footage of Trump's crowd chanting "send her back" re: Omar, with Trump standing there breathing it all in.  One of the most disgusting things i've seen at a political rally.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 22, 2019, 06:15:44 am
That woman has been a citizen longer than his own wife.

You can see Trump talking himself into more extremism all the time.  And to win one election.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on July 22, 2019, 07:13:59 am
When are the census results to be released? It is generally a very long process.
In Canada it takes almost two years to clean the data and make it presentable. But preliminary results are usually reported in about 12 months.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 22, 2019, 11:36:02 am
Trump still carries on with his racist tweets toward the non white congresswomen. I think it's not only part of the actual bigotry within him, but also it's to appeal to the same characteristic which thrives within his base, and so it's also a part of his campaign strategy. The place is rearing it's ugly head as a far right racist **** hole (remind anyone of a nearby website?) and I think in large part it is backlash from the previous election of a Black man to the highest office in the land, namely Obama of course. Trump has managed to drive the national debt into the ozone and to isolate the country from its most important allies while becoming good buddies with some of the worst murderous dictators on the planet; Fat Kim, Duterte, Putin, MBS, and taking their word on issues over the word of his own intelligence community. Trump doesn't need bricks and mortar to build his wall, he is succeeding in isolating his country simply by opening his mouth and his tweeter account. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 22, 2019, 02:09:34 pm
Although, watching that rally, there were several people standing behind Trump who were clearly not impressed when that chanting was going on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 22, 2019, 02:10:04 pm
Trump now proposes to hold the next G7 meeting at his golf course in Florida. Does anybody else notice the stench from this ****? Does the emoluments clause mean **** ALL to this ****?

“The president knows that by visiting his properties, taxpayer dollars will flow directly into his own pockets. Then, unsurprisingly, the president visits his properties all the time,” Ryan Shapiro of the watchdog group Property for the People told the Post.

https://www.salon.com/2019/06/23/donald-trump-wants-to-hold-next-g7-summit-at-his-florida-golf-resort/

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 22, 2019, 02:11:48 pm
Although, watching that rally, there were several people standing behind Trump who were clearly not impressed when that chanting was going on.

Then WTF were they doing there in the first place?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 22, 2019, 05:12:18 pm
Trump now says he "may watch a little of Mueller's testimony". I suspect he'll be as riveted as such a dufus can be, especially to hear the obvious questions as to Trumps obstruction attempts which he has tried to say Mueller cleared him of. Trump will have to take some time out from watching cartoons but I suspect the word "impeachment" is ringing in his ears.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 22, 2019, 05:34:02 pm
Then WTF were they doing there in the first place?

They are probably people who put up with some of his antics because they like some of the other stuff he does. That doesn’t mean they are comfortable about it. Will it cost him their support? Who knows.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 22, 2019, 05:43:05 pm
They are probably people who put up with some of his antics because they like some of the other stuff he does. That doesn’t mean they are comfortable about it. Will it cost him their support? Who knows.

I suspect they are people who are just as racist as he is and they are simply rah, rah, rahing for him because they don't want no mo black men in the white house, or even in congress for that matter. The country is racists. End of story.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 22, 2019, 07:28:47 pm
I suspect they are people who are just as racist as he is and they are simply rah, rah, rahing for him because they don't want no mo black men in the white house, or even in congress for that matter. The country is racists. End of story.
I think it is a big mistake to assume all Trump supporters are racists. Some just see an economy that has been doing well and someone who is trying to do something about illegal immigrants and that is good enough for them. Just because they have low standards doesn’t make them all Nazis.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 22, 2019, 07:48:06 pm
I think it is a big mistake to assume all Trump supporters are racists. Some just see an economy that has been doing well and someone who is trying to do something about illegal immigrants and that is good enough for them. Just because they have low standards doesn’t make them all Nazis.

Yes I agree it's not fair to tar all with one brush. However I think a lot of his supporters are being duped. Yes there are some more jobs but many people, especially in the rust belt, find they have to work more than one job to make ends meet. And then look what Trump has done to the debt which those peoples kids will be left with. Reduced corporate taxes will make the Koch bros. happy and even richer though. I listened to his oval office press briefing this am and it took about two minutes before I ran out of fingers and toes counting his lies and that's only the ones I know of in my own mind. I couldn't give a fiddelly arse phuck what the US people do with Trump I'm just glad we here in Canada don't have to clean up all the shyte he will leave in his wake. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 22, 2019, 09:35:07 pm
I see Trump told his little buddie Bill Barr to write a letter to Mueller to try and intimidate him prior to his upcoming appearance before congress. I thought the AG was supposed to be non biased. Not under this regime apparently. I'm sure Mueller is off camera giving Barr the middle finger.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 22, 2019, 11:07:01 pm
As if Fox news bullshit wasn't enough we now have One News America Network paid for in part by none other than...the Kremlin. Go Donny Go and lets heat up some more of that pablum.

If the stories broadcast by the Trump-endorsed One America News Network sometimes look like outtakes from a Kremlin trolling operation, there may be a reason. One of the on-air reporters at the 24-hour network is a Russian national on the payroll of the Kremlin’s official propaganda outlet, Sputnik.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/oan-trumps-new-favorite-channel-employs-kremlin-paid-journalist
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on July 23, 2019, 12:39:17 am
in latest Abacus poll: yowzer - almost half of CPC supporters have positive/neutral view of Trump! 

(https://i.imgur.com/3fWxPIJ.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 23, 2019, 12:46:34 pm
I think it is a big mistake to assume all Trump supporters are racists. Some just see an economy that has been doing well and someone who is trying to do something about illegal immigrants and that is good enough for them. Just because they have low standards doesn’t make them all Nazis.
Well I guess we need to answer the philosophical question:

If someone is accepting of racism, can they still be "not a racist" if they think they're benefiting from it?

Trump is a racist. He uses racist rhetoric and implements racist policies. People who are his supporters are OK with that, even if they claim "Oh I'm not REALLY racist, I just want the wealthy to have their tax cuts". Somewhere along the line you have to draw a line, to say "I don't care if Trump makes the trains run on time, his racism has cost him my support". In my opinion, a true "not-racist" would have passed that point years ago, and anyone claiming "I'm not a racist" is lying (to either themselves or to others).

Its a little like if someone said "I like that hitler guy, but I'm not racist... I just really like the Volks Wagon Beetle." You would probably assume that they were not being honest.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 23, 2019, 12:53:21 pm
Trump is now being officially asked by Afghanistan what he meant by his comments as to "wiping the country off the map". I suspect we all know it's just another case of an idiot moving his mouth before his brain is engaged, but I guess if you happen to live in, or near, the country you might just want some clarification. I also suspect the grown ups in the US military are rolling their eyes yet again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 23, 2019, 02:43:47 pm
We see now that Trump's "yuuugely successful" ICE raids that would "round up millions" (actually targeted at ~2000) actually succeeded to find 35 people. Daniel Dale has a full time job just keeping abreast of Trumps endless bull ****. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on July 24, 2019, 08:38:37 am
If any of you are online right now, you should be watching this testimony live, rather than relying on the news to interpret it for you.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?462628-1/robert-mueller-testifies-house-judiciary-committee
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on July 24, 2019, 11:51:15 am
If any of you are online right now, you should be watching this testimony live, rather than relying on the news to interpret it for you.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?462628-1/robert-mueller-testifies-house-judiciary-committee

The narratives are going to be from your previous bias.

Clearly the report isn't an exoneration and the only thing that kept Trump from being Indicted were Justice Department rules.

But if you're a mindless Trump supporter, nothing Mueller says will convince you that this isn't a "Witch Hunt".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 24, 2019, 02:55:44 pm
I feel like I was back in law school all morning listening to Mueller. He certainly is showing his age but as he clearly said at the outset he was staying within the "four corners" of his report. Nadlers opening question session was the headline for sure, no exoneration, regardless how often Trump blurts it out hoping to convince someone beyond his herd of followers in his base.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 24, 2019, 11:56:33 pm
We see now that Trump's "yuuugely successful" ICE raids that would "round up millions" (actually targeted at ~2000) actually succeeded to find 35 people. Daniel Dale has a full time job just keeping abreast of Trumps endless bull ****.

Hahaha 35 people.  Good job Trump.  Sounds like everyone got the hell out of dodge.  As if anyone would stay at the address they gave the gov that weekend.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 25, 2019, 03:51:57 pm
Hahaha 35 people.  Good job Trump.  Sounds like everyone got the hell out of dodge.  As if anyone would stay at the address they gave the gov that weekend.

Actually they probably did stay at their regular address because once again, Trump's big mouth got in the way when he blabbed well in advance as to the upcoming ICE raids and then lawyers etc. went online/air to advise people they had no legal obligation to open their door for an ICE agent. And of course most local police forces refused to get involved.

Oh well, Trump has now moved on trying to convince "somebody" that Mueller's testimony once again exonerated him. I'm sure the base will buy it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 26, 2019, 12:59:23 pm
Looks like they should consider redesigning the presidential seal...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/26/politics/presidential-seal-trump-charles-leazott-trnd/index.html
Trump spoke on Tuesday at a summit for conservative students hosted by the group Turning Point USA, and for a brief moment, the President appeared before the doctored seal evoking imagery of the Russian coat of arms on stage.

The explanation given was that whomever was doing the video for the meeting did a quick image search for the presidential seal, and picked a parody one instead of the real one.

Differences between the real seal and the doctored seal:

- The eagle has 2 heads (which mimics the Russian seal)
- The phrase 'e purabus unum' (out of one, many) has been replaced by the spanish phrase '45 is a puppet'
- The talons are holding golf clubs and money, instead of arrows/an olive branch
- Stars have been replaced by hammer/sickle

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 26, 2019, 04:22:21 pm
Trump sends tweets to Sweden demanding the release of American musician ASAP Rocky, who has been charged with assault there, but does/says SFA while another American citizen/high school student, Franco Galicio, and who has been charged with nothing spends three weeks locked up in one of Trumps cages after ICE agents fail to verify his ID. Now if you ever had trouble understanding the concept of hypocrisy well there is about as clear an example as one can find.
He also says now he has always preferred American wine over French, even though he also claims he doesn't ever drink. I have never bothered to study the US articles of impeachment closely but isn't/shouldn't there something in there to do with mental stability?   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 27, 2019, 03:54:06 pm
I guess Trump won't be invited to Baltimore any time soon after his ridiculous/racist comments about the city. Oh well, Dickhead Mcbonespurs can always go visit his lover in Pyongyang. They can "look" at a bottle of lovely American wine (**** that French crap) while they watch Kim fire off a few new missiles.   

Baltimore Mayor Bernard "Jack" Young (D) blasted President Trump's comments about his city and Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-Md.) on Saturday, calling the president a "disappointment to the people of Baltimore."

“It’s completely unacceptable for the political leader of our country to denigrate a vibrant American City like Baltimore, and to viciously attack U.S. Representative Elijah Cummings a patriot and a hero,” Young said in a statement posted to Twitter.

“Mr. Trump, you are a disappointment to the people of Baltimore, our country, and to the world,” he added.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/455019-baltimore-mayor-slams-unacceptable-trump-comments-on-city
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 27, 2019, 04:13:44 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/03/politics/trump-new-hampshire-drugs/index.html

Trump argues he won New Hampshire because it is a 'drug-infested den'

He sure hates parts of the country he leads...  He is Balkanizing America.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 27, 2019, 09:05:11 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/03/politics/trump-new-hampshire-drugs/index.html

Trump argues he won New Hampshire because it is a 'drug-infested den'

He sure hates parts of the country he leads...  He is Balkanizing America.

Voting for Trump indicates a mental deficiency which could well stem from illegal drug use.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on July 27, 2019, 10:07:48 pm
Voting for Trump indicates a mental deficiency which could well stem from illegal drug use.
Hillbilly heroin is perfectly legal.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 27, 2019, 10:18:35 pm
Hillbilly heroin is perfectly legal.

Yeah I don't think we considered all the potential drawbacks from shipping all that Oxy south. Maybe the Canadian version is preferable in the same way US wine is to that from France.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 28, 2019, 11:41:51 am
Happy to see Baltimore is thumbing it's nose at Trump after his little tirade he went on the other day trying to degrade the city for who the hell knows why. His isolationist nonsense has not only alienated America's oldest and strongest allied countries, he's now doing the same thing on US soil. I guess if he has his way America will consist essentially of what's inside the beltway around Wa. DC and the sole source of authority will be the White House.

The Baltimore Sun's editorial board published a response, highlighting aspects of the city they felt the president left out: the beauty of Inner Harbor, the history of Fort McHenry, the prominence of Johns Hopkins Hospital, and the national dependency on the Social Security Administration, which is housed in the city.
"And it surely wasn't about the economic standing of a district where the median income is actually above the national average," the board wrote.


"Better to have some vermin living in your neighborhood than to be one."


https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/28/politics/baltimore-response-trump-tweets/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 28, 2019, 01:27:15 pm
Happy to see Baltimore is thumbing it's nose at Trump after his little tirade he went on the other day trying to degrade the city for who the hell knows why. 

Because he's an idiot baby.  In a way, he must be in hell trying to please people and be powerless over his own tirades...

Anyway, I'm sure the Maryland Republicans will get some quality candidates coming out after 45 has set this election up so nicely for them...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 28, 2019, 01:34:49 pm
Because he's an idiot baby.  In a way, he must be in hell trying to please people and be powerless over his own tirades...

Anyway, I'm sure the Maryland Republicans will get some quality candidates coming out after 45 has set this election up so nicely for them...

Are there any Black republican in that "rat infested shytehole", I wonder?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 28, 2019, 01:43:23 pm
Are there any Black republican in that "rat infested shytehole", I wonder?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election_in_New_York#New_York_City_results_2

New York, New York it's a helluva town... Where Donald's home district really voted him down (About 13% in NY for Trump)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 28, 2019, 02:14:12 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election_in_New_York#New_York_City_results_2

New York, New York it's a helluva town... Where Donald's home district really voted him down (About 13% in NY for Trump)

Trump also thinks he is popular in the UK, "they like me over there" he claims. Yep, about 21% by recent polls. Oh well he must be happy to have the likes of Boris Johnson in power over there now.

Here's what a lot of Britons think of him apparently.

https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/1500110/donald-trump-uk-support.jpg?w=737&f=11fdc26fe75ffe0b5211b846f62b270a
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 28, 2019, 10:07:55 pm
Hey too bad Trump wasn't attending the Gilroy Garlic Festival today. He could have witnessed the results of (the lack of) gun laws his good bum buddies at the NRA provide for. I suspect the death toll will amount to yet another mass shooting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 29, 2019, 01:06:34 am
It seems from what I see is the final tally stands at 3 dead, 15 wounded in, where was it today, oh yeah California. No big deal and I'm sure Humpdy Trumpdy has been receiving instructions all evening long from Wayne LaPierre about how to regurgitate that old shyte about "the best way to stop a bad man with a gun, etc., etc., etc." Stay tuned, the copy cat guy is probably at a late night gun store gearing up right now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 29, 2019, 03:58:35 pm
So it turns out that Jerod Kushner operates some of the worst rat infested **** hole apartment buildings in Baltimore while daddy in law condemns Baltimore as being a rat infested **** hole. Just when you thought the hypocrisy couldn't be any more blatant Donald and Co. outdo themselves yet again.

Jared Kushner owns Baltimore apartments ‘infested’ with rodents, mould and maggots

US president’s ‘slumlord’ son-in-law ‘deeply implicated’ in creating ‘race to the bottom’ in city


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/jared-kushner-trump-baltimore-apartments-rodents-mould-maggots-a9024826.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 29, 2019, 04:28:47 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/29/politics/donald-trump-9-11-first-responders/index.html

Trump: 9-1-1 first responder !
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 29, 2019, 04:35:04 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/29/politics/donald-trump-9-11-first-responders/index.html

Trump: 9-1-1 first responder !

This quote from your article is just another one the makes me wish all the mor eI could get close enough to him to punch his **** lights out. It would well be worth the jail time for the assault charge.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 29, 2019, 09:59:40 pm
Slumlords should all be arrested.  They're the scum of the earth.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 30, 2019, 09:49:07 am
Hey too bad Trump wasn't attending the Gilroy Garlic Festival today. He could have witnessed the results of (the lack of) gun laws his good bum buddies at the NRA provide for. I suspect the death toll will amount to yet another mass shooting.
Hey, I have it on good authority that if Trump were at such a shooting event, he would not hesitate to rush in to confront the shooter...

From: https://www.bbc.com/news/43202075
US President Donald Trump has said he would have run in to the Florida high school where 17 people were shot dead this month even if he was not armed. "I really believe I'd run in there even if I didn't have a weapon," Mr Trump told a group of state governors gathered at the White House.

Such a hero! Such a manly-man. Its a shame that bone spurs kept him from serving in Viet Nam... he could have won the war single handed!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 30, 2019, 11:26:31 am
Hey, I have it on good authority that if Trump were at such a shooting event, he would not hesitate to rush in to confront the shooter...

From: https://www.bbc.com/news/43202075
US President Donald Trump has said he would have run in to the Florida high school where 17 people were shot dead this month even if he was not armed. "I really believe I'd run in there even if I didn't have a weapon," Mr Trump told a group of state governors gathered at the White House.

Such a hero! Such a manly-man. Its a shame that bone spurs kept him from serving in Viet Nam... he could have won the war single handed!

Yes I saw a portion of that video recently and it damn near caused me to spat a swig of beer I was enjoying at the moment, just the sheer absurdity. Perhaps if he'd have gone to Nam or into that school the US wouldn't be in the chaos it is now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 30, 2019, 02:43:59 pm
Hey, I have it on good authority that if Trump were at such a shooting event, he would not hesitate to rush in to confront the shooter...

From: https://www.bbc.com/news/43202075
US President Donald Trump has said he would have run in to the Florida high school where 17 people were shot dead this month even if he was not armed. "I really believe I'd run in there even if I didn't have a weapon," Mr Trump told a group of state governors gathered at the White House.

Such a hero! Such a manly-man. Its a shame that bone spurs kept him from serving in Viet Nam... he could have won the war single handed!

I have it on similar authority that Trump is also the "least racist person you will ever encounter".  Don't let historical facts cause you to doubt that authority.

This is nothing new for Trump. In fact, the very first time that Trump appeared in the pages of the New York Times, back in the 1970s, was when the US Department of Justice sued him for racial discrimination. Since then, he has repeatedly appeared in newspaper pages across the world as he inspired more similar controversies.

This long history is important. It would be one thing if Trump simply misspoke one or two times. But when you take all of Trump’s actions and comments together, a clear pattern emerges — one that suggests that bigotry is not just political opportunism on Trump’s part but a real element of Trump’s personality, character, and career.

https://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/donald-trump-racist-racism-history
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 01, 2019, 05:46:11 am
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/nyc-official-no-evidence-trump-gave-10k-9-11-fund-n666631?fbclid=IwAR0TqmWJAQl2lz-TKrQyBHS_Nm7L4ZLcKZQQsNjS3RXOlZ72qXzTJze7a64

More lies.  He said he gave to the 9/11 fund but ... guess what he didn't. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 01, 2019, 10:40:56 am
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/nyc-official-no-evidence-trump-gave-10k-9-11-fund-n666631?fbclid=IwAR0TqmWJAQl2lz-TKrQyBHS_Nm7L4ZLcKZQQsNjS3RXOlZ72qXzTJze7a64

More lies.  He said he gave to the 9/11 fund but ... guess what he didn't.
Here's the other thing to remember....

He claimed he donated $10,000, but he also claims he is worth around $5 billion (give or take a few billion).

A $10,000 donation works out to 0.0002% of his supposed wealth at the time. it would be the equivalent of your or I giving $1. So even in his lies, Trump is a tightwad.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 01, 2019, 11:22:17 am
So Trump was going to build a "big beautiful" wall and have Mexico pay for it. Well Mexico thumbed it's nose at that silly notion. Now Trump wants to import cheap(er) prescription drugs from Canada and have Canada pay for it.  Well I think we should follow the lead de nuestros amigos Mexicanos.

On Wednesday, U.S. President Donald Trump's administration said it would create a system to allow Americans to import cheaper Canadian drugs legally. The policy change would reverse previous decisions by past administrations by allowing American states and pharmacies to buy more affordable medicines north of the border. Washington offered no estimate of when this new policy would start.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/us-drug-plan-canadian-shortage-1.5232360

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 01, 2019, 12:57:44 pm
What I don't get is that the pharma manufacturers are American in the first place, so they would be exporting drugs here to import back ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 01, 2019, 01:11:24 pm
What I don't get is that the pharma manufacturers are American in the first place, so they would be exporting drugs here to import back ?

That is one of the realities that Mr. Bonespurs failed to understand. Are you surprised? Americans are allowed to come to Canada and purchase prescription drugs (usually insulin) for up to 90 days worth at Canadian prices which are apparently one tenth of US prices, but mass cross border shipping ain't gonna happen. I suspect the whole thing is yet another deflection attempt. Since that one got shot down now he's off to increase tariffs on Chinese imports to the US. So, once again the markets go down and Americans will have to dig deeper in their wallets to cover those tariffs. And the band plays on!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 01, 2019, 02:08:12 pm
What I don't get is that the pharma manufacturers are American in the first place, so they would be exporting drugs here to import back ?

Canada has price controls on drugs they buy & sell.  Drugs have high R&D costs, those costs are paid via higher prices to Americans so that Canada and Europe can buy drugs cheaper.  Selling our drugs to the US that we negotiated the price on will hurt Canadians and Americans because US pharma co's will just have to bump up the price of US and/or Canadian drugs to make up for it.

This is a US political problem that needs to be solved by Americans.

Canada also has generic drug companies, like Apotex.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 01, 2019, 02:20:42 pm
Canada has price controls on drugs they buy & sell.  Drugs have high R&D costs, those costs are paid via higher prices to Americans so that Canada and Europe can buy drugs cheaper.  Selling our drugs to the US that we negotiated the price on will hurt Canadians and Americans because US pharma co's will just have to bump up the price of US and/or Canadian drugs to make up for it.

This is a US political problem that needs to be solved by Americans.

Canada also has generic drug companies, like Apotex.

Actually the higher prices paid by Americans are not for the benefit of Canada/Europe but rather to make sure US big pharma remains ridiculously wealthy. Now Donald tries to do a double jeopardy and he will lose again, hopefully.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 01, 2019, 09:21:16 pm
Canada has price controls on drugs they buy & sell.  Drugs have high R&D costs, those costs are paid via higher prices to Americans so that Canada and Europe can buy drugs cheaper.  Selling our drugs to the US that we negotiated the price on will hurt Canadians and Americans because US pharma co's will just have to bump up the price of US and/or Canadian drugs to make up for it.

This is a US political problem that needs to be solved by Americans.

Canada also has generic drug companies, like Apotex.

All good but my point is that we're selling drugs imported from elsewhere.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 02, 2019, 01:13:12 am
Donald has assured he is "the least racist person in the room". So, he admits he is in fact racist, just apparently less than the others in the room. Now just who was in that room, and how racist does that make him? I bet teh room was full of people shouting "send her back" so he could certainly be quite racist, just maybe less than the others.
I'm sure BC over at right wingnuthole will be able to twist that into something the followers will believe.  ;)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 02, 2019, 11:58:32 am
The US House now has a majority in favor of impeachment for Trump. Will it happen? Will Pelosi cede her opposition to it? I hope they don't blow it like they did with Clinton.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 02, 2019, 12:19:46 pm
The US House now has a majority in favor of impeachment for Trump. Will it happen? Will Pelosi cede her opposition to it? I hope they don't blow it like they did with Clinton.
Correction... a majority of house Democrats favor impeachment. Republicans by and large remain opposed.

I'm not really sure whether it is a good reason or not. There are no easy answers, and no way to predict what exactly will happen.

The impeachment proceedings could highlight some of Trump's more significant crimes, and cause him to lose support among voters. (After that, either republican congress critters would support the impeachment proceedings to prevent big losses in 2020, or they stick with Trump and lose big in the next election.)

Or, assuming the senate does not vote with the impeachment, Trump could use the situation to claim "they tried to stage a coup", and ends up solidifying his base.

The 2 most recent examples of impeachment involved Nixon and Clinton. Nixon resigned before he was impeached (although public demand for impeachment had been growing). In Clinton's case, the house voted to impeach but the senate didn't cooperate, and at the end, Clinton's popularity ended up going up. (Although Trump's transgressions are more numerous and more serious than anything Clinton ever did.)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 02, 2019, 12:36:57 pm
Correction... a majority of house Democrats favor impeachment. Republicans by and large remain opposed.

I'm not really sure whether it is a good reason or not. There are no easy answers, and no way to predict what exactly will happen.

The impeachment proceedings could highlight some of Trump's more significant crimes, and cause him to lose support among voters. (After that, either republican congress critters would support the impeachment proceedings to prevent big losses in 2020, or they stick with Trump and lose big in the next election.)

Or, assuming the senate does not vote with the impeachment, Trump could use the situation to claim "they tried to stage a coup", and ends up solidifying his base.

The 2 most recent examples of impeachment involved Nixon and Clinton. Nixon resigned before he was impeached (although public demand for impeachment had been growing). In Clinton's case, the house voted to impeach but the senate didn't cooperate, and at the end, Clinton's popularity ended up going up. (Although Trump's transgressions are more numerous and more serious than anything Clinton ever did.)

The concern I pointed out is that we can, in all likelihood, predict that the senate would not convict, and Trump could try to do a repeat of Clinton in terms of popularity. However, as you say, the proceedings would present for the public to hear, all his transgressions, some of which are clearly illegal, such as obstruction, and perhaps that might turn previous supporters the other way in 2020.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 02, 2019, 01:57:07 pm
Canada also has generic drug companies, like Apotex.

True, much of the manufacturing in Canada is generic drugs. We do however also have an active research and development industry as well, but yes far behind the Europeans and Americans. Much of the research is conducted by smaller companies. I had a neighbor in the 2000's that worked at one of them, although she moved to the US several years ago.

All good but my point is that we're selling drugs imported from elsewhere.

Lots of manufacturing in the Toronto area, I used to live a few blocks from one of them (no not the one where my neighbor worked). Some are branch plants of foreign companies, others are Canadian grown but most of those sold out to foreign interests. I believe Apotex is still Canadian. Montreal also has some drug manufacturing, and I believe that Parke-Davis (no Pfizer) still manufactures in Windsor.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 05, 2019, 09:33:09 am
Just listened to Trumpybumpstock McBonespurs giving a (very poorly read) speach in response to the recent mass murders in the US. He in part tried to blame it on video games, (which has been proven various times to have no correlation) and     he      read    his     teleprompter.....as    best     he could      sincere      condolences     to the      parents     of      the fallen. And whatever else the NRA told him to say. The HYPOCRISY made me want to puke in his **** face. I hope the last thing this **** sees is an AK 47 that just got bought at Walmart being pointed at him. Am I pissed off this am? You're **** right I am.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 06, 2019, 07:40:42 am
Just listened to Trumpybumpstock McBonespurs giving a (very poorly read) speach in response to the recent mass murders in the US. He in part tried to blame it on video games, (which has been proven various times to have no correlation) and     he      read    his     teleprompter.....as    best     he could      sincere      condolences     to the      parents     of      the fallen. And whatever else the NRA told him to say. The HYPOCRISY made me want to puke in his **** face. I hope the last thing this **** sees is an AK 47 that just got bought at Walmart being pointed at him. Am I pissed off this am? You're **** right I am.

I am immensely curious as to how he ends up in the situation where the real Trump is suppressed and forced to turn to teleprompter Trump.  Who convinces him to do that ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 06, 2019, 10:31:45 am
I trust the pilots on Air Force One know their geography well enough to know Dayton and Toledo are actually two different locations. Although I think if I was flying it I'd take Donald to the latter just for kicks since he said that's where the latest shooting occurred.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 07, 2019, 12:47:44 am
Anybody betting on how bad Trump may **** up in Dayton and/or El Paso tomorrow? I suggest spicy popcorn and a few sips for the show(s)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 07, 2019, 07:50:13 am
Anybody betting on how bad Trump may **** up in Dayton and/or El Paso tomorrow? I suggest spicy popcorn and a few sips for the show(s)

Well they convinced him to go 'teleprompter' already so I think that is what we will be seeing.  If not, we have seen his extemporaneous grief speeches before, and they're a spectacle of shame.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 07, 2019, 04:49:12 pm
Trump hasn't got the decency to stop playing "tweetotics" even as he travels to visit the families of mass murder victims. I'm sure he kissed both cheeks of Wayne PaPierre's ass before he left.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 07, 2019, 09:42:11 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/07/politics/trump-el-paso-visit-victim/index.html

So ... Jetting to the scene of a second massacre, Trump lashed out. Instead of imparting the sympathetic grief that his tour of killing zones was meant to illustrate, it was he who appeared aggrieved. And instead of highlighting his interactions with the shootings' victims, it was his own perceived victimhood — at the hands of Democrats and the media — that he thrust upon two stricken communities.

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 07, 2019, 10:01:02 pm
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-gop-on-the-road-to-oblivion/?fbclid=IwAR3k23ErHORhWypF85tdC9pKRyQyf6UcdJChxlhILGnxAAdPJ4pw_H1W6xY

G&M declares the GOP on the road to oblivion.  Is it really true ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 08, 2019, 11:06:40 am
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-gop-on-the-road-to-oblivion/?fbclid=IwAR3k23ErHORhWypF85tdC9pKRyQyf6UcdJChxlhILGnxAAdPJ4pw_H1W6xY

G&M declares the GOP on the road to oblivion.  Is it really true ?
Article is behind a paywall. Could you summarize the relevant points to the article?

I wish the GOP were on the road to oblivion. The party has become a travesty, and is probably far beyond redemption. There are a few things going against them (their current demographic voter base is shrinking, and they aren't appealing to Minorities.) However, I can't really see them disappearing in the near future:

- Despite their shrinking demographics, the fact that Trump continues to maintain ~40% at the polls (despite his incompetence) means that the party still has some ability to win elections
- They have managed to game the system to their advantage (voter suppression, gerrymandering) and there's no easy solution to that problem, which helps minimize problems due to demographic changes
- They still appeal to rural voters, which means they will continue to hold many rural states, both in the senate and electoral college

I think the best that we can hope for is multiple election losses (for the white house and congress), in the hopes that a decade or so in the political wilderness will make them decide to clean up their act (and give the Democrats a chance to reverse some of the anti-democratic changes that the Republicans have instituted.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 08, 2019, 11:34:06 am
Article is behind a paywall. Could you summarize the relevant points to the article?

I wish the GOP were on the road to oblivion. The party has become a travesty, and is probably far beyond redemption. There are a few things going against them (their current demographic voter base is shrinking, and they aren't appealing to Minorities.) However, I can't really see them disappearing in the near future:

- Despite their shrinking demographics, the fact that Trump continues to maintain ~40% at the polls (despite his incompetence) means that the party still has some ability to win elections
- They have managed to game the system to their advantage (voter suppression, gerrymandering) and there's no easy solution to that problem, which helps minimize problems due to demographic changes
- They still appeal to rural voters, which means they will continue to hold many rural states, both in the senate and electoral college

I think the best that we can hope for is multiple election losses (for the white house and congress), in the hopes that a decade or so in the political wilderness will make them decide to clean up their act (and give the Democrats a chance to reverse some of the anti-democratic changes that the Republicans have instituted.)

One issue I find troublesome is do the ~40% who support Trump do so because they believe, for instance, that the economy is doing well so they can just hold their noses while they cast a ballot, or do they fully support the type of White Nationalist/Supremacist racist ideas that Trump clearly demonstrates. I'm hoping it's not too much the latter and so when the GOP can select a sane(r) man to lead them, things could calm down a bit and the heavily divided country could return to some semblance of sanity.     
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 08, 2019, 11:54:48 am
One issue I find troublesome is do the ~40% who support Trump do so because they believe, for instance, that the economy is doing well so they can just hold their noses while they cast a ballot, or do they fully support the type of White Nationalist/Supremacist racist ideas that Trump clearly demonstrates. I'm hoping it's not too much the latter and so when the GOP can select a sane(r) man to lead them, things could calm down a bit and the heavily divided country could return to some semblance of sanity.
Well, the fact that Trump got roughly 46% of the popular vote in 2016 (close to his current approval rating), before he "took over" the economy (but his racism was on full display) suggests that "the economy" is not the main thing driving people to Trump.

A declining economy would hurt Trump, but probably just cause him to lose a few percentage points (enough to tip the election, but not enough to see the republicans decimated.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 08, 2019, 12:04:41 pm
Well, the fact that Trump got roughly 46% of the popular vote in 2016 (close to his current approval rating), before he "took over" the economy (but his racism was on full display) suggests that "the economy" is not the main thing driving people to Trump.

A declining economy would hurt Trump, but probably just cause him to lose a few percentage points (enough to tip the election, but not enough to see the republicans decimated.)

Well then maybe I'll head south of the border and take advantage of both current issues. Let's see, a gun shop would seem to make sense. (Pardon my feeble attempt at humor)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 08, 2019, 02:11:25 pm
Another **** idiot Trump supporter:   39 year old man assaults a 13 year old kid for disrespecting the POTUS by not taking off his hat during the national anthem. He  fractures the kids skull, gets charged with assault, and then gets let out on his own recognizance, regardless of the fact he has a criminal record. I suspect the judge is probably a Trumptard as well.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/curt-brockway-assault-teen-national-anthem_n_5d4aebb6e4b09e72973fb710
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 09, 2019, 11:44:28 am
Another **** idiot Trump supporter:   39 year old man assaults a 13 year old kid for disrespecting the POTUS by not taking off his hat during the national anthem. He  fractures the kids skull, gets charged with assault, and then gets let out on his own recognizance, regardless of the fact he has a criminal record. I suspect the judge is probably a Trumptard as well.
Some updates:

From: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/08/08/curt-brockway-montana-national-anthem-assaulter-trump-ordered/1958043001/
A Montana man charged with assaulting a 13-year-old boy who refused to remove his hat during the national anthem believed he was doing what President Donald Trump wanted him to do, his attorney said.
...
Brockway suffered a traumatic brain injury in a vehicle crash in 2000 that has affected his decision making, and Jasper said he plans to raise that in his client’s defense.


Looks like his lawyer is taking a shot-gun approach to his defense... "head injury... Trump...".


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 09, 2019, 12:00:21 pm
Some updates:

From: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/08/08/curt-brockway-montana-national-anthem-assaulter-trump-ordered/1958043001/
A Montana man charged with assaulting a 13-year-old boy who refused to remove his hat during the national anthem believed he was doing what President Donald Trump wanted him to do, his attorney said.
...
Brockway suffered a traumatic brain injury in a vehicle crash in 2000 that has affected his decision making, and Jasper said he plans to raise that in his client’s defense.


Looks like his lawyer is taking a shot-gun approach to his defense... "head injury... Trump...".

Seems to me like it could be a viable defense. For starters the head injury/treatment will be documented, and then support for Trump could well be indicative of the brain damage.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 09, 2019, 12:04:17 pm
Another **** idiot Trump supporter:   39 year old man assaults a 13 year old kid for disrespecting the POTUS by not taking off his hat during the national anthem. He  fractures the kids skull, gets charged with assault, and then gets let out on his own recognizance, regardless of the fact he has a criminal record. I suspect the judge is probably a Trumptard as well.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/curt-brockway-assault-teen-national-anthem_n_5d4aebb6e4b09e72973fb710

Hope he's got money because he's gona get sooood by the kid and his parents.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 09, 2019, 12:20:02 pm
Hope he's got money because he's gona get sooood by the kid and his parents.

And on that note, it's too bad the two month old baby (who Trump had brought back to the hospital in El Paso because no others still there after the shooting there wanted to be anywhere near Trump) couldn't sue Donny for everything he's got including his stupid looking fake hair piece. A two month old baby who's parents are now dead thanks to an idiot with an assault rifle, and who Trump uses to try and garner some sort of PR, while at the same time he's on the phone taking orders from La Pierre. What a sick **** Trump continues to demonstrate he is.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 09, 2019, 12:55:50 pm
Trump gives a 'thumbs up' in the picture... what a non-human he is...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 09, 2019, 01:14:57 pm
Trump gives a 'thumbs up' in the picture... what a non-human he is...

Trump must not only be as blind as a bat, but also a hell of a lot stupider than one not to understand how trying to use an orphaned baby as some kind of prop is about as sicko as it gets. He's taken narcissism to a whole new level.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 09, 2019, 01:53:15 pm
I see that wal-mart has decided to follow trump's notion that mass shootings are caused by video games and so they are pulling them from their shelves while continuing to be one of the nations largest seller of assault weapons. Of course the video game bs has been disproven but I imagine the store makes much better profit from guns than games. I guess then it will only be appropriate if the next round of mass shootings occur at wal-mart stores. I don't shop there anyway so I'll be OK.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 09, 2019, 02:55:01 pm
I see that wal-mart has decided to follow trump's notion that mass shootings are caused by video games and so they are pulling them from their shelves...

No...  they’re not pulling video games from their shelves.   ::)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 09, 2019, 02:57:39 pm
No...  they’re not pulling video games from their shelves.   ::)

Well THEY say they are. Try to keep up eh!

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/09/business/walmart-violent-video-games/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 09, 2019, 04:16:02 pm
Trump must not only be as blind as a bat, but also a hell of a lot stupider than one not to understand how trying to use an orphaned baby as some kind of prop is about as sicko as it gets. He's taken narcissism to a whole new level.

Did they bring an orphaned baby in for a photo op??
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 09, 2019, 04:21:12 pm
Did they bring an orphaned baby in for a photo op??

Yes, the 2 month old who's parents were shot and killed in El Paso.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tanyachen/trump-el-paso-orphan-baby-photo-smiling-thumbs-up
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 09, 2019, 04:55:42 pm
Is it me or did the bar just move for disgusting behaviour?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 09, 2019, 04:58:38 pm
Is it me or did the bar just move for disgusting behaviour?

I would certainly say it moved. However I bet the likes of BC,taxme etc., over yonder are somehow still in full support?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Granny on August 10, 2019, 08:59:02 am
Yes, the 2 month old who's parents were shot and killed in El Paso.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tanyachen/trump-el-paso-orphan-baby-photo-smiling-thumbs-up

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Leaving El Paso for the White House. What GREAT people I met there and in Dayton, Ohio. The Fake News worked overtime trying to disparage me and the two trips, but it just didn’t work. The love, respect & enthusiasm were there for all to see. They have been through so much. Sad!


Omigod ... it's all about his ego.
I don't read Trump news anymore,  have to stay out of this thread.
Sociopaths exist. Can't blame him, can't expect any different from a brain devoid of human empathy. But it is so so sickening to me that the minds and emotions of so many people are so easily manipulated to give a charlatan so much power ...who never treated an employee or contractor fairly in his life.

Almost makes one despair of humanity ... :(
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 10, 2019, 09:07:14 am
@Granny if it's any consolation I shared the story on the 'thumbs up' pic on my feed and there was much sharing of the story with others, and a giant wealth of negative comments.  It looks like that struck a chord with people.

Whether that helps is another question.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 10, 2019, 02:23:38 pm
So Jeffrey Epstein died in jail today; of "apparent suicide".  This will be nitro for conspiracy theories, and given the number of influential people who could have been named if he decided to squeal, it's hard not to wonder if this was more like an "assisted suicide".

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 10, 2019, 02:36:30 pm
"assisted suicide".

I scored a goal because the blade of my stick happened to be in the right place when the guy who got the "assist" shot the puck at my stick to deflect into the net.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 10, 2019, 02:45:51 pm
He had been moved back to the SHU where he shouldn't have been if he was on suicide watch so that will be a conspiracy theory issue for sure. On the other hand he knew he was going to be convicted and could be facing 45 years. I can see concluding to just get it over with becoming a serious option.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 10, 2019, 07:25:37 pm
So Jeffrey Epstein died in jail today; of "apparent suicide".  This will be nitro for conspiracy theories, and given the number of influential people who could have been named if he decided to squeal, it's hard not to wonder if this was more like an "assisted suicide".

He had some of the most powerful clients in the world, I could see a "hit" happening i guess.  They should make Godfather 4 about Epstein.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 10, 2019, 07:51:02 pm
He had some of the most powerful clients in the world, I could see a "hit" happening i guess.  They should make Godfather 4 about Epstein.

Making a movie about this scumbag would likely only appeal to the likes of the Trump base. Let's not encourage them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 10, 2019, 11:29:45 pm
Well THEY say they are. Try to keep up eh!

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/09/business/walmart-violent-video-games/index.html

And you can’t read....   I will highlight the part you’re missing...

Quote
Walmart pulls violent video game displays


Quote
Walmart is taking down displays of violent video games in its stores in the wake of recent shootings. But the company plans to still sell the controversial video games -- and guns.

Please read the articles you’re linking to.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 11, 2019, 12:19:54 pm
And you can’t read....   I will highlight the part you’re missing...


Please read the articles you’re linking to.

And you completely miss the point, curbing access to violent video games does not affect the occurrence of shootings. Curbing access to guns does. Yeah wal mart!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 11, 2019, 01:29:53 pm
It really does seem to be time that US powers that be should consider the 25th amendment in light of the never ending, and then this latest Trump horse puckey.

)President Donald Trump on Saturday promoted a conspiracy theory linking the Clinton family to the death of multimillionaire and accused sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein, the latest instance of Trump propagating baseless conspiracy theories and falsehoods.
Trump shared a tweet and video from conservative comedian Terrence Williams that claimed without evidence that former President Bill Clinton and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton -- Trump's 2016 presidential election rival -- were responsible for Epstein's death. The Federal Bureau of Prisons and Attorney General Bill Barr said Epstein died in an "apparent suicide" while in federal custody.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/11/politics/jeffrey-epstein-trump-conspiracy-theory-clintons/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 11, 2019, 04:28:36 pm
And you completely miss the point, curbing access to violent video games does not affect the occurrence of shootings. Curbing access to guns does. Yeah wal mart!

Guns don't kill people, violent video games displays kill people.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 11, 2019, 04:41:32 pm
Guns don't kill people, violent video games displays kill people.

So you think you can kill someone easier with a gsame controller than with an ar 15? How trumpian of you to say such a silly thing.

No evidence that violent video games are causing mass shootings, despite politicians’ claims

After shooting massacres last weekend killed 31 people and wounded dozens, some politicians are once again turning to a familiar scapegoat: video games.

It is a recurring mantra that dates back generations: “violent video games make people more violent.” Only, there’s no evidence to actually back up that claim, experts say.

“The research is not there to suggest that there is a link between violent video games and these horrific acts of violence,” Patrick Markey, director of The Interpersonal Research Laboratory and professor of psychology at Villanova University, said. “When we look at when people play video games, we actually see a dip in violent crimes ... and we don’t see an uptick later on.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/09/no-evidence-that-violent-video-games-are-causing-mass-shootings.html


Don't blame video games for El Paso, Dayton shootings. Leaders like Trump must face facts.
You won't find violent video game displays at Walmart anymore. Late last week the company announced it is removing them from stores.

This came after President Donald Trump, commenting on the Dayton and El Paso shootings, complained from the White House about “gruesome and grisly video games that are now commonplace” and surround troubled youth with a culture that celebrates violence. House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, meanwhile, told Fox News he has always felt violent games present “a problem for future generations and others.”

Would someone please point out to our leaders — neither of whom cited actual evidence — that they are more than a decade behind the scientific consensus? There is no solid evidence that video games, violent or otherwise, lead to actual, real-world violence by the people who play them. (For the record, Trump offered the same narrative after the shooting in Parkland, Florida last year.)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/08/11/el-paso-dayton-gilroy-scapegoat-calls-video-game-censorship-column/1936119001/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 11, 2019, 10:18:45 pm
So you think you can kill someone easier with a gsame controller than with an ar 15? How trumpian of you to say such a silly thing.

No evidence that violent video games are causing mass shootings, despite politicians’ claims

Was being sarcastic
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 11, 2019, 11:10:43 pm
Quote
I see that wal-mart has decided to follow trump's notion that mass shootings are caused by video games and so they are pulling them from their shelves while continuing to be one of the nations largest seller of assault weapons.
Quote
And you completely miss the point, curbing access to violent video games does not affect the occurrence of shootings. Curbing access to guns does. Yeah wal mart!
A couple of things:

- While Wal-mart does sell some firearms, they do not sell 'assault' rifles/semi-automatics like the AR15. (They stopped selling them in 2015). Furthermore, they require background checks, and have a rule against selling to people under 21. (As gun retailers go, Wal-mart appears to be among the more responsible.)

- I do not know exactly why Wal-mart removed the displays for violent video games. However, its possible that it was done not because they believed in a cause-and-effect (i.e. "video games lead to shootings") but for strictly public-relations reasons (i.e. people were shot in wal-mart... it might seem insensitive for customers in their stores to see displays reminding them of the shootings.)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-wal-mart-stores-rifles/wal-mart-to-stop-selling-ar-15-other-semi-automatic-rifles-idUSKCN0QV26520150827


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 11, 2019, 11:19:50 pm
He had been moved back to the SHU where he shouldn't have been if he was on suicide watch...
He wasn't on suicide watch. He had been, but had been taken off of it sometime between the earlier incident and when he was found dead.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/prison-experts-are-stunned-angry-jeffrey-epstein-was-taken-suicide-n1041121

Quote
so that will be a conspiracy theory issue for sure.
Don't worry, you have the president right on it to deal with such conspiracy theories...

From: https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/11/politics/jeffrey-epstein-trump-conspiracy-theory-clintons/index.html
Trump shared a tweet and video from conservative comedian Terrence Williams that claimed without evidence that former President Bill Clinton and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton -- Trump's 2016 presidential election rival -- were responsible for Epstein's death.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 11, 2019, 11:26:25 pm
@Granny if it's any consolation I shared the story on the 'thumbs up' pic on my feed and there was much sharing of the story with others, and a giant wealth of negative comments.  It looks like that struck a chord with people.
Even the Mooch things Trump might have really embarrassed himself over the way he handled the shootings.

From: https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/anthony-scaramucci-trump-el-paso-catastrophe_n_5d4e7bfae4b0820e0af5dd3e?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALrt_527idD4mk9Visr0CTBl6UF1leUld-HRiZDB0KgMo-SmKCFdse9EZ_FflKqps3vsrh6hMNJju-Bw30RVvTnSFesqOCol0lJd_fDq7dwZRk3tg_-6rDTd4inXXQeDPpGUD8cNxGR2OKRhbgyfjWTGXziPMoXubfFWX9xCgsBP
Anthony Scaramucci, who worked for his pal Donald Trump in the White House for all of 11 days, called the president’s visit to an El Paso, Texas, hospital a “catastrophe.”...“The facts are he did not do well on the trip, because if the trip is being made about him and not the demonstration of compassion and love and caring and empathy for those people, then it becomes a catastrophe for him, the administration, and it’s also a bad reflection on the country,” Scaramucci said.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 12, 2019, 12:29:29 am
A couple of things:

- While Wal-mart does sell some firearms, they do not sell 'assault' rifles/semi-automatics like the AR15. (They stopped selling them in 2015). Furthermore, they require background checks, and have a rule against selling to people under 21. (As gun retailers go, Wal-mart appears to be among the more responsible.)

- I do not know exactly why Wal-mart removed the displays for violent video games. However, its possible that it was done not because they believed in a cause-and-effect (i.e. "video games lead to shootings") but for strictly public-relations reasons (i.e. people were shot in wal-mart... it might seem insensitive for customers in their stores to see displays reminding them of the shootings.)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-wal-mart-stores-rifles/wal-mart-to-stop-selling-ar-15-other-semi-automatic-rifles-idUSKCN0QV26520150827

Bottom line, there's good money in selling guns. Who gives a **** what they do with them after they pay the bill and drive home!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 12, 2019, 01:57:52 am
Quote
A couple of things:

- While Wal-mart does sell some firearms, they do not sell 'assault' rifles/semi-automatics like the AR15. (They stopped selling them in 2015). Furthermore, they require background checks, and have a rule against selling to people under 21. (As gun retailers go, Wal-mart appears to be among the more responsible.)
Bottom line, there's good money in selling guns. Who gives a **** what they do with them after they pay the bill and drive home!
Actually, the money may not be quite as good as you think... At least not anymore.

From: https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/business/walmart-gun-sales/index.html
Quote
...ending the sale of guns could be a smart business decision for Walmart. "It's not a high-margin business," said Burt Flickinger III, managing director of retail consultant Strategic Resources Group... "Guns and ammo were important to Walmart in the 20th century, maybe the first decade of this one," he said. "But it's declining while other segments like toys and pets are growing.

I do think the U.S. has to make major changes to its gun control regulations. But, there will always be a use for some firearms (hunting, sports shooting, etc.) I think Wal-mart is doing things the right way... providing firearms that would be least likely to be used in mass shootings/most likely to be used for legitimate purposes, and restricting who they can be sold to.

If you want to complain about something, complain about the 'gun show loophole' and other similar problems in their regulations.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 12, 2019, 11:42:25 am
Bottom line, there's good money in selling guns. Who gives a **** what they do with them after they pay the bill and drive home!

Actually, the money may not be quite as good as you think... At least not anymore.

From: https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/business/walmart-gun-sales/index.html
I do think the U.S. has to make major changes to its gun control regulations. But, there will always be a use for some firearms (hunting, sports shooting, etc.) I think Wal-mart is doing things the right way... providing firearms that would be least likely to be used in mass shootings/most likely to be used for legitimate purposes, and restricting who they can be sold to.

If you want to complain about something, complain about the 'gun show loophole' and other similar problems in their regulations.

The point being that gun laws should be consistent and set out by government, not a retailer like wal mart etc., who sell guns. Both the El Paso and Dayton shooters used semi automatic rifles purchased legally. The guy in Dayton purchased his gun online and had it sent to a local gun dealer where he picked it up and stuck a 100 round magazine in it. Both the shooters in El Paso and Gilroy used what are essentially AK-47's both purchased legally, with the exception the guy from Gilmore had to go to Nevada to legally buy a gun holding more than 10 rounds. It all adds up to the reality that if you take a notion you are pissed off about whatever and just want to go mow down a bunch of people at a wal mart, it's not hard to get your hands on the firepower to do so. Trump mouths the words background checks, maybe even red flag checks, etc., and then buggers off for a week to play golf. You think anything meaningful will get done? I'm betting it won't.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 12, 2019, 02:11:37 pm
The point being that gun laws should be consistent and set out by government, not a retailer like wal mart etc., who sell guns.
I agree... gun laws should be consistent, be applied country wide, and be dictated by the government.

And if that were to happen, I suspect wal-mart (if it does stay in the firearms business instead of withdrawing to use the floor space for other activities) would probably meet any such regulations by default, since they already insist on background checks, don't well semi-automatics, and won't sell to people under 21.

(By the way, even if the government does have regulations, that doesn't necessarily mean that a retailer like wal-mart can't add additional restrictions. Like I said, they already pulled out of the semi-auto business, even though they could have legally sold those guns if they wanted.
Quote
Both the El Paso and Dayton shooters used semi automatic rifles purchased legally. The guy in Dayton purchased his gun online and had it sent to a local gun dealer where he picked it up and stuck a 100 round magazine in it. Both the shooters in El Paso and Gilroy used what are essentially AK-47's both purchased legally...
Yup... shooters can buy semi-auto guns and extended mags legally. That should change.

But, none of them got them from Wal-mart, and they couldn't, even if they wanted since Walmart doesn't sell that stuff.
Quote
Trump mouths the words background checks, maybe even red flag checks, etc., and then buggers off for a week to play golf. You think anything meaningful will get done? I'm betting it won't.
I agree... there probably won't be any meaningful gun control legislation.

For some reason, republican congress-critters are still afraid of the NRA, despite the fact that even most republicans favor additional firearms restrictions, and the NRA has been found to have a lot of scandals (infighting between its executive members, huge debts, Russian ties, and the strong chance that they might lose their tax-exempt status.)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/07/poll-most-voters-support-assault-weapons-ban-1452586
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/01/nra-russia-investigations-gun-lobby
https://www.vox.com/2019/4/30/18510946/nra-finances-lapierre-north-accusations-corruption

I think there is one solution that gun control activists could use: Encourage minority groups to purchase firearms. It will so freak out the republicans that they will probably enact gun control legislation overnight. (This actually happened in California in the 1960s. The Black Panthers held several rallies where they brought (legal) firearms; both Reagan (who was gov. of California at the time) and the NRA supported gun control legislation at that time.

https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on August 12, 2019, 03:01:33 pm
both Reagan (who was gov. of California at the time) and the NRA supported gun control legislation at that time.

Reagan as President supported the second amendment, mostly because he said control measures were unrealistic (and undoubtedly was directed by Republican puppet masters) . After leaving office however he supported both the 1993 Brady Bill and 1994 Assault Weapons Ban.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 12, 2019, 10:50:06 pm
And you completely miss the point, curbing access to violent video games does not affect the occurrence of shootings. Curbing access to guns does. Yeah wal mart!


The point was you claimed something that was completely wrong and I corrected it.  Own up to your silliness.  You didn’t bother to read your own link.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 12, 2019, 10:55:40 pm

The point was you claimed something that was completely wrong and I corrected it.  Own up to your silliness.  You didn’t bother to read your own link.

Again you miss the point. You can still head down to your local wal mart and buy a gun, you just won't see violent video games. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 13, 2019, 09:58:14 am
Again you miss the point. You can still head down to your local wal mart and buy a gun
Yes you can (at least in much of the U.S. you can. But the type of gun you can buy there are things like hunting rifles. Not exactly the weapon of choice for your average mass shooter.

Quote
you just won't see violent video games.
Ummm... yes you will. You just wont see DISPLAYS for violent video games. You can still buy Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, and a whole host of other violent video games there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 13, 2019, 11:25:03 am
Yes you can (at least in much of the U.S. you can. But the type of gun you can buy there are things like hunting rifles. Not exactly the weapon of choice for your average mass shooter.
Ummm... yes you will. You just wont see DISPLAYS for violent video games. You can still buy Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, and a whole host of other violent video games there.

I imagine if you are mentally deranged enough to want to walk into a wal mart and kill the first shoppers you see you will use whatever weapon the store can supply you. I doubt the lack of game displays will make much of a difference.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 13, 2019, 11:34:10 am
I imagine if you are mentally deranged enough to want to walk into a wal mart and kill the first shoppers you see you will use whatever weapon the store can supply you. I doubt the lack of game displays will make much of a difference.
And nobody claimed it would.

You claimed that you "couldn't find violent video games at Wal-mart". I corrected that.

As for the displays... as I mentioned before, you don't have to think the displays caused the violence to think they should be taken them down. I think it makes sense to remove them strictly from an image perspective... shoppers probably wouldn't want to be reminded about the shootings while they're in the store.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 13, 2019, 11:47:12 am
And nobody claimed it would.

You claimed that you "couldn't find violent video games at Wal-mart". I corrected that.

As for the displays... as I mentioned before, you don't have to think the displays caused the violence to think they should be taken them down. I think it makes sense to remove them strictly from an image perspective... shoppers probably wouldn't want to be reminded about the shootings while they're in the store.

And, once again, my point is the presence of video games/images makes no difference to shooters. The presence of guns does.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 13, 2019, 12:55:32 pm
And, once again, my point is the presence of video games/images makes no difference to shooters. The presence of guns does.

The presence of guns?   No.  Guns are in Canada too and we don’t have the issues that the USofA does.   It’s not the mere presence of guns.  That’s such a simplistic, naive take on it.

The controls on gun ownership make the difference.  Not where they are merely present in a store. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 13, 2019, 01:02:41 pm
The presence of guns?   No.  Guns are in Canada too and we don’t have the issues that the USofA does.   It’s not the mere presence of guns.  That’s such a simplistic, naive take on it.

The controls on gun ownership make the difference.  Not where they are merely present in a store.

You're finally getting the point it would seem.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 13, 2019, 01:08:26 pm
You're finally getting the point it would seem.

And maybe one day you’ll actually read your own links and form an opinion that doesn’t sound like a 5th grader came up with it.   But I won’t hold my breath.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 13, 2019, 01:23:24 pm
And maybe one day you’ll actually read your own links and form an opinion that doesn’t sound like a 5th grader came up with it.   But I won’t hold my breath.

I'll try to keep it simple for ya. People don't kill people because they play video games. People are able to kill people in the US because it's easy to get a gun. Comprendes?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 13, 2019, 01:30:58 pm
I'll try to keep it simple for ya. People don't kill people because they play video games. People are able to kill people in the US because it's easy to get a gun. Comprendes?

You’re arguing against something I never said.   Maybe go back read other’s posts and your own links.  You’re clueless.   Just stop Omni.   It’s embarrassing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 13, 2019, 01:36:55 pm
You’re arguing against something I never said.   Maybe go back read other’s posts and your own links.  You’re clueless.   Just stop Omni.   It’s embarrassing.

No need to be embarrassed, just try to say on point.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 13, 2019, 01:59:34 pm
It sounds now like Trump's boy Ken Cuccinelli may want to scrape some words off the Statue of Liberty in similar fashion as to how the NRA scraped the first phrase of the 2nd amendment off their office in Fairfax Virginia. So I guess they only want wealthy (and I would add white) immigrants to show up on their shores,  and to hell with "well regulated" militias, let anybody have a gun.

Washington (CNN)The acting director of US Citizenship and Immigration Services in a new interview revised the iconic poem on the Statue of Liberty's pedestal to suggest that only immigrants who can "stand on their own two feet" are welcome in the United States.
Ken Cuccinelli tweaked the famous poem from Emma Lazarus -- whose words, "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" are long associated with immigration to the US and the nation's history as a haven -- as part of a case for strict new measures pushed Monday by the Trump administration that could dramatically change the legal immigration system.
"Would you also agree that Emma Lazarus's words etched on the Statue of Liberty, 'Give me your tired, give me your poor,' are also a part of the American ethos?" NPR's Rachel Martin asked Cuccinelli on "Morning Edition" in an interview published Tuesday.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/politics/ken-cuccinelli-statue-of-liberty/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 13, 2019, 02:43:11 pm
No need to be embarrassed, just try to say on point.

Read your own links.  Stop making fallacious claims that sidetrack the topic.   ::)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 13, 2019, 02:44:53 pm
It sounds now like Trump's boy Ken Cuccinelli may want to scrape some words off the Statue of Liberty in similar fashion as to how the NRA scraped the first phrase of the 2nd amendment off their office in Fairfax Virginia. So I guess they only want wealthy (and I would add white) immigrants to show up on their shores,  and to hell with "well regulated" militias, let anybody have a gun.

The gun laws in America are in line with the 2nd Amendment according to Supreme Court cases.  You give the NRA too much credit.  Their own Supreme Court has essentially scrapped any need for a militia.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 13, 2019, 02:48:26 pm
The gun laws in America are in line with the 2nd Amendment according to Supreme Court cases.  You give the NRA too much credit.  Their own Supreme Court has essentially scrapped any need for a militia.

Gun laws in the US vary widely from state to state. And the militia the US now has is called the National Guard.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 13, 2019, 07:22:06 pm
Gun laws in the US vary widely from state to state. And the militia the US now has is called the National Guard.

Irrelevant to what the SCOTUS determined with respect to the 2nd amendment.
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 13, 2019, 08:06:58 pm
Irrelevant to what the SCOTUS determined with respect to the 2nd amendment.

The scotus went all wimp ass and did nothing on the second so once again, state laws control guns and so you can order an ak 47 online in some states. Trump will do whatever the NRA tells him and the next mass shooting will likely be soon. Keep your head down.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 13, 2019, 11:15:05 pm
Trump continues to demonstrate his mental incompetency, currently by quoting some failed comedian by retweeting his concept that the Clintons arranged the killing og Epstein in prison. I believe it truly is time the mental incapacity portion of the 25th amendment should be dusted off so this nut bar can be removed from office and perhaps receive the help he clearly needs.

During a brief question-and-answer session with reporters outside his golf resort in New Jersey on Tuesday, Trump was asked about a decision he made Saturday — hours after Epstein, a wealthy sex offender with prominent connections on both sides of the aisle who was awaiting trial on sex trafficking charges, was found dead by apparent suicide in his jail cell in Manhattan — to retweet a post from Terrence K. Williams suggesting that the “Clinton crime family” was somehow involved. In the same tweet, Williams falsely claimed Epstein was on suicide watch at the time of his death.

Referring to Williams, Trump described him as “a very highly respected conservative pundit. He’s a big Trump fan.”

https://www.vox.com/2019/8/13/20804322/trump-defends-epstein-clinton-conspiracy-retweet-terrence-k-williams
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 14, 2019, 11:37:43 am
Nothing like a good old multi billion dollar trade war with your biggest trading partner to stimulate your economy....into a nose dive. Trump doesn't seem to even comprehend who pays those tariffs (hint, hint,  it ain't the Chinese Donny). There could well be a recession on the horizon but at least the up side of that could be that maybe his base who stick with him because they thought he was good for the economy will kick his arse out the WH door in 2020. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 14, 2019, 04:22:28 pm
OK here we go again, another shooter(s), this time in Philly, a number of officers wounded. But WHO THE **** needs stronger gun laws? I would love to see La Pierre and his bum boy get their nuts blown off. (Assuming they actually have any)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 14, 2019, 05:12:11 pm
So the market is way down, mass shootings are way up. Now then donald just come over here and look down the barrel of this gun I just bought at wal mart and we'll start to clean up this mess shortly.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 14, 2019, 05:35:36 pm
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-cucinelli-statue-of-liberty-verse-europe-immigrants-1.5246852

My god who says things like this in front of a microphone.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 14, 2019, 10:39:02 pm
So here is a list of trump's conspiracy theories. Please vote for what you believe are the most outrageous and I will send the results to Kelly Anne Conway for her perusal.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/12/politics/trump-conspiracy-theories-jeffrey-epstein/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 15, 2019, 08:05:27 pm
Trump has asked aides if it's possible to buy Greenland, sources say

Not The Onion ...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 15, 2019, 10:38:14 pm
Why WOULDN'T the US want to buy Greenland?

It's going to be actually green by the end of the century.  Like this might actually be the first smart thing he's done.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 16, 2019, 05:31:03 am
Why WOULDN'T the US want to buy Greenland?

It's going to be actually green by the end of the century.  Like this might actually be the first smart thing he's done.

Do you think that he's done a lot of deep thought into costs/benefits ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 16, 2019, 11:08:32 am
Do you think that he's done a lot of deep thought into costs/benefits ?

I suggest that reference to Trump, and the concept of deep thought, do not belong in the same sentence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 17, 2019, 01:26:39 pm
Now Trump uses taxpayer money and turns what was meant to be a White House event into a reelection event for him, not funded by his campaign monies. Royal Dutch Shell went along for the ride telling employees if they did not attend they would have to take paid time off instead. I see a "slight conflict of interest" here.

The Tuesday Trump speech was an official White House event -- not a speech sponsored by the reelection campaign. Trump told the audience at the plant Tuesday that they should oust their union leaders if they declined to support him.
"I'm going to speak to some of your union leaders to say, 'I hope you're going to support Trump.'  Okay?" Trump said.  "And if they don't, vote them the hell out of office because they're not doing their job. It's true. It's true. Vote them out of office."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/17/politics/workers-trump-speech-attend-pto-no-pay/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 19, 2019, 04:17:25 pm
Trump still peeing in his pants about the fact that Hillary beat him at the polls in 2016. He's now blaming google. 

Full disclosure: I found this article on google.

The President this morning lashed out at Google on Twitter, accusing the company of manipulating millions of votes in the 2016 election to sway it towards Hillary Clinton. The authority on which he bases this serious accusation, however, is little more than supposition in an old paper reheated by months-old congressional testimony.

Trump’s tweet this morning cited no paper at all, in fact, though he did tag conservative watchdog group Judicial Watch, perhaps asking them to investigate. It’s also unclear who he thinks should sue the company.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/19/without-evidence-trump-accuses-google-of-manipulating-millions-of-votes/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 19, 2019, 04:41:58 pm
And after the most previous mass shootings in the US, and three thwarted mass shootings, Trump backs away from previous comments about increasing background checks. Get down on your knees Donald, kiss laPierres' ass, and let's see the video of who you actually are. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 20, 2019, 11:43:32 am
Trump still peeing in his pants about the fact that Hillary beat him at the polls in 2016. He's now blaming google. 
...
The President this morning lashed out at Google on Twitter, accusing the company of manipulating millions of votes in the 2016 election to sway it towards Hillary Clinton. The authority on which he bases this serious accusation, however, is little more than supposition in an old paper reheated by months-old congressional testimony.
Hillary Clinton had perhaps the best take on it:

"The debunked study you’re referring to was based on 21 undecided voters. For context that’s about half the number of people associated with your campaign who have been indicted."
- Hillary Clinton (via Twitter)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 20, 2019, 12:01:13 pm
Hillary Clinton had perhaps the best take on it:

"The debunked study you’re referring to was based on 21 undecided voters. For context that’s about half the number of people associated with your campaign who have been indicted."
- Hillary Clinton (via Twitter)

I hadn't heard that comment so thanks for the update. I'm sure Trump felt that poke in his ribs!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 20, 2019, 04:33:40 pm
Trump now says if you are an American Jew and you vote for a democrat you are guilty of disloyalty. Yet another hint that donald trump is the current adolph hitler. Read some history, you'll see what i mean.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 20, 2019, 09:27:09 pm
Trump cancels scheduled  trip to Denmark because they don't want to sell Greenland. How many long term allies has he alienated so far? Ah no worries, he's got Fat Kim right where he wants him. They're in love...well except for those missiles he's been firing lately. How **** retarded is this going to get I wonder?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 20, 2019, 11:07:43 pm
It really seems to be getting worse.  This Greenland thing was ridiculous. 

The real learning point is how easy it is to rally idiots and deniers of reality to one's side.  I never would have believed it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 20, 2019, 11:12:24 pm
It really seems to be getting worse.  This Greenland thing was ridiculous. 

The real learning point is how easy it is to rally idiots and deniers of reality to one's side.  I never would have believed it.

Please pass my best regards to bc04 over at redneck shyte forum.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 21, 2019, 12:01:39 am
It really seems to be getting worse.  This Greenland thing was ridiculous. 

Trump probably just wants to build some hotels & casinos there and then sell Greenland over to Russia for a profit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 21, 2019, 12:05:46 am
Trump now backs away from his earlier comment about having background checks. LaPierre told him what to do. Any bets on how many folks get shot in the next 30 days? Too bad Trump won't likely be one of them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 21, 2019, 12:18:04 am
Trump probably just wants to build some hotels & casinos there and then sell Greenland over to Russia for a profit.

Trump would likely follow suit and build a few hotels that eventually fail and then Putin will take over @ ten cents on the dollar and then replace the F-16's with the latest Mig's and take over Thule air base.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 21, 2019, 12:53:52 am
I wonder how many dipshits (especially some of them over you know where) don't get that the "buy Greenland" deal is simply a diversion attempt?

Poor Donny looks stupider every day.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 21, 2019, 11:15:06 am
WTF I just heard that the DEFICIT (THE DEFICIT NOT THE DEBT) in the US is set to pass $1T next year ?!?

That's 50 times Canada's projected deficit

https://time.com/5657676/us-budget-deficit-1-trillion-2020/
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fiscal-monitor-trudeau-surplus-1.5112639
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 21, 2019, 01:00:21 pm
WTF I just heard that the DEFICIT (THE DEFICIT NOT THE DEBT) in the US is set to pass $1T next year ?!?

That's 50 times Canada's projected deficit

https://time.com/5657676/us-budget-deficit-1-trillion-2020/
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fiscal-monitor-trudeau-surplus-1.5112639

Ah, a trillion here, a trillion there, eventually it adds up to big money. I forget who's line it is I am borrowing here.
In any case, Denmark doesn't have to tolerate a visit from Donny McBonespurs since they have pointed out to him that Greenland is not for sale. He's gonna stay home and throw another hissy fit. Yawn.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 21, 2019, 02:08:25 pm
The more Trump prattles on, even contradicting himself today in the same press briefing, the more the 25th amendment should be considered. How many more mass shooting will it take before somebody wakes up down there?

25th Amendment. The 25th Amendment, proposed by Congress and ratified by the states in the aftermath of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, provides the procedures for replacing the president or vice president in the event of death, removal, resignation, or incapacitation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 21, 2019, 04:11:16 pm
Hey if you haven't had a chance to listen to American news today may I suggest you apply a neck brace before doing so lest you suffer whiplash. He has contradicted himself or out and out lied more times than most of us can count. And oh yeah, he tops it off by suggesting he give himself a Medal of Honor. I ain't making this **** up!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 22, 2019, 05:07:59 pm
Trump heads off to the G7 meeting complaining as he does that his buddy Putin isn't invited. Any guesses on how he might embarrass himself, and the US this time, such as he did elbowing his way in front of Dusko Markovic at the 2017 NATO meeting? I have popcorn on my grocery list so I'll be ready.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 22, 2019, 08:17:19 pm
....and I just heard from a FOAB (friend on another board) that Trump just used the Amber Alert function to ping all the phones at a rally in Florida ?

Seems like egregious abuse... but I don't see anything on MSM about it....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 23, 2019, 11:15:42 am
....and I just heard from a FOAB (friend on another board) that Trump just used the Amber Alert function to ping all the phones at a rally in Florida ?

Seems like egregious abuse... but I don't see anything on MSM about it....

I am skeptical about that claim.

Everything that Trump does is analysed in great detail by the media. If Trump had actually misused the system I'm sure it would have been all over the news.

There are parts of the claim that just don't make sense: Trump doesn't have the ability to issue 'Amber Alerts'. There is a "presidental alert" system (they did a test of it back in 2018), but Trump doesn't have direct control of it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/10/femas-wireless-alert-test-testing-public-trust/571861/

Trump does enough stupid stuff without having to make stuff up. Unfortunately, when false rumors happen, it ends up being both a distraction from real mistakes Trump has made, and cover for his supporters who can claim "They got that wrong... so everything critics say must be wrong".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 23, 2019, 12:12:16 pm
China responds in kind to Trump's trade war by applying tariffs of their own and down goes the Dow (currently ~500 pts) again. Trump is supposed to respond later today but his current tweets are indicative of how stupid his reply will be. Can you say recession?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 23, 2019, 12:25:13 pm
Trump is supposed to respond later today but his current tweets are indicative of how stupid his reply will be. 

You mean when he ordered US companies out of China ?

I think he will drop an 'F bomb' on live TV soon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 23, 2019, 12:36:22 pm
You mean when he ordered US companies out of China ?

I think he will drop an 'F bomb' on live TV soon.

Yep that's certainly part of the stupidity. And now lets add to that, that as the markets drop, tensions between the US and Russia increase especially now Trump has pulled the US out of the INF. I don't hold a lot of faith that his comments later today will help either of those issues, and I'd like to be a fly on the wall to see how the rest of the G7 welcome him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 23, 2019, 03:52:16 pm
Response of the day. "You screwed up my 401K so bad I might as well call it Eric""
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 23, 2019, 10:48:16 pm
Well Trumpty Dumpty is off to France for the G7. Hopefully he will STFU for a few hours. I'm sure the other leaders there or en-route can't wait to hear from him!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 25, 2019, 04:09:33 pm
I'm not a big fan of Boris Johnson but I commend him for publicly rebuking Donny boy regarding his trade wars especially with China. At least Donny didn't seem to elbow anyone out of the way during the photo ops this time around.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 25, 2019, 07:54:18 pm
https://www.france24.com/en/20190826-trump-suggested-nuking-hurricanes-report

Quote
President Donald Trump suggested dropping nuclear bombs on hurricanes before they made landfall in the United States, Axios reported Sunday.

During a hurricane briefing, Trump asked if it were possible to disrupt hurricanes forming off the coast of Africa by dropping a nuclear bomb in the eye of the storm, Axios wrote.

So now I'm worried about getting through this administration without dying.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 25, 2019, 08:23:33 pm
https://www.france24.com/en/20190826-trump-suggested-nuking-hurricanes-report

So now I'm worried about getting through this administration without dying.

Read the article. That's some scary ****. Although it doesn't exactly surprise me coming from that moron. Have you posted that so bc04 could read it over at shythole?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 25, 2019, 08:36:12 pm
I don't see a good reason to do that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 25, 2019, 09:40:36 pm
https://www.france24.com/en/20190826-trump-suggested-nuking-hurricanes-report

So now I'm worried about getting through this administration without dying.

Luckily Trump's defense policy has been surprisingly sane.

The guy is all hot air.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 26, 2019, 12:16:29 pm
Trump now suggests it would be a good idea to drop a nuclear bomb onto hurricanes to quell them. Did he fall off the wagon and get into some of that lovely French wine at the G7 or what?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 26, 2019, 03:07:09 pm
Trump now suggests the next G7 meeting should be in the US and hosted by his failing golf course in Florida, and he want's his buddy Vladi Putin to attend, even though none of the other leaders want him. How many times can this crook break the emoluments clause and get away with it?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 28, 2019, 12:44:18 pm
Just when ya thought it couldn't get any weirder, Trump has now offered to grant pardons to anyone who breaks laws helping him get his border wall done, and not even because he thinks it will help with immigration, but he thinks he needs it to get reelected.

Donald Trump has reportedly told aides he will pardon them for any laws they might break to build a wall along the US-Mexico border as he rushes to get hundreds of miles of fencing erected before the 2020 election.
Trump claims he's 'best thing that's ever happened to Puerto Rico' as he lashes out at territory – live
Read more

The president has ordered officials to ignore environmental rules, fast-track construction contracts valued at billions of dollars and “take the land” needed by eminent domain, according to the Washington Post.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/28/trump-offers-pardon-aides-us-mexico-border-wall-please
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 29, 2019, 09:35:00 am
Just when ya thought it couldn't get any weirder, Trump has now offered to grant pardons to anyone who breaks laws helping him get his border wall done, and not even because he thinks it will help with immigration, but he thinks he needs it to get reelected.
Trump has claimed that the report of offering pardons was "made up/fake news".

On the other hand, one of Trump's minions stated that the president was "joking". (i.e. that Trump made the offer of Pardons but wasn't serious about it.)

So, who to believe?

I think it says a lot about the integrity of the Trump administration if they can't even be consistent in their denials.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-joking-pardons-laws-broken-pursuit-border-wall/story?id=65239809

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 29, 2019, 11:28:19 am
Trump has claimed that the report of offering pardons was "made up/fake news".

On the other hand, one of Trump's minions stated that the president was "joking". (i.e. that Trump made the offer of Pardons but wasn't serious about it.)

So, who to believe?

I think it says a lot about the integrity of the Trump administration if they can't even be consistent in their denials.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-joking-pardons-laws-broken-pursuit-border-wall/story?id=65239809

While on one hand I doubt the WAPO would make up such a story , I can also buy that Trump was "joking" with those comments, but what a sick way to try and make a joke. Enticing someone to break the law is itself a criminal offense, as well as an impeachable one. With the constant stream of lies that flow from him, such as most recently how much of his wall has actually been built, which is reportedly 0, and how much aid funds were sent to Puerto Rico the last time they were hit by a hurricane, reportedly $12b not the $92b he claims, it's pretty hard to take anything he says seriously anymore.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 30, 2019, 04:22:17 pm
Hey just thought of an idea as to how to get rid of two storms simultaneously. All we need is for Dorian to take a turn to the north, (which it probably wants to do since that's their usual path) and then head up the coast to Washington. Now since Trump has suggested that one way to disarm such a storm is to drop a nuclear bomb on it, I'd be happy to fly the "storm chaser" and monitor until the eye is directly over the White House and drop that bomb. I'd phone him just after "bombs away" and let him know the storm is about to end for him. ;) 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 31, 2019, 12:39:28 pm
Trump is doing his own version of Nero I see. He has decided to go play some golf while a cat. 4 storm bears down on the east coast. And before heading to the links he decided to send out yet another irrelevant tweet, this time sucking up to Faux News.

Has anyone noticed that the top shows on @foxnews and cable ratings are those that are Fair (or great) to your favorite President, me! Congratulations to @seanhannity for being the number one show on Cable Television!
32.2K
7:24 AM - Aug 31, 2019

https://www.politicususa.com/2019/08/31/trump-dorian-fox-news.html

I think the Oxford dictionary should revise it's definition of the word Narcissist to include a piture of Donny boy.

I doubt he has the intellect to play the fiddle so a round of golf will suffice.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 31, 2019, 09:21:54 pm
So five dead, 21 injured, 13 critical, in Odessa. Texas is about to relax it's gun laws tomorrow. What timing! Now y'all can git yer fuckin' guns out and go shoot the **** out of each other even more tomorrow. Yee haw!

 Too bad Trump isn't in town.

Oh and keep in mind y'all can tote your gunds into church tomorrow in Texas.
Praise the lord and pass the ammo.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 01, 2019, 01:42:39 am
I can't wait to see some more shootings in Texas. Especially in places of worship since the new laws will allow y'all to tote in church. Didn't agree with the sermon, blow the mo'fo's head off.
Oh yeah don't forget to leave something in the collection plate
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 01, 2019, 07:54:03 am
Now now.  You are hoping for the death of innocent people here.  Most of us want gun laws changed to help people, not to punish conservatives for their pernicious world view.

Hating the other side over all practical consideration is what defeated Hillary.

Also how can the cops hope to identify the assailant with open carry laws, and so-called good guys with guns everywhere?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 01, 2019, 12:21:44 pm
Now now.  You are hoping for the death of innocent people here.  Most of us want gun laws changed to help people, not to punish conservatives for their pernicious world view.

Hating the other side over all practical consideration is what defeated Hillary.

Also how can the cops hope to identify the assailant with open carry laws, and so-called good guys with guns everywhere?

No I'm certainly not hoping for any further innocent deaths, but simply pointing a little dark "humor" at the likelihood of such things continuing, and especially at the timing of the most recent one in Texas the very same day they are relaxing gun laws. I see from the news this morning they are up to 7 dead now. Also that Trump has said background checks wouldn't help the situation in any way. I guess maybe he along with his buds at the NRA may be hoping for further innocent deaths, or at least not caring as long as gun sales are good and we can walk around Walmart with them anytime we like.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 01, 2019, 03:56:01 pm
Latest news reveals the (latest) shooter in Texas, besides killing 7 people and attempting to kill 21 more, didn't do much else illegal, other than failing to put his blinker on to make a turn in his car. Having a loaded assault rifle on the seat beside him?...no big deal. I bet the next copy cat guy is buying his AR 15 as I type.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 01, 2019, 04:38:41 pm
Latest news reveals the (latest) shooter in Texas, besides killing 7 people and attempting to kill 21 more, didn't do much else illegal, other than failing to put his blinker on to make a turn in his car. Having a loaded assault rifle on the seat beside him?...no big deal. I bet the next copy cat guy is buying his AR 15 as I type.

Open Carry + Someone Having a Bad Day = Oh well... that's the price of freedom
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 01, 2019, 05:26:29 pm
Open Carry + Someone Having a Bad Day = Oh well... that's the price of freedom

And as long as we ignore the first part of the 2nd amendment, the NRA will be happy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 01, 2019, 10:00:00 pm
And as long as we ignore the first part of the 2nd amendment, the NRA will be happy.

Who is “we”?   Canadians??
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 01, 2019, 10:05:58 pm
Who is “we”?   Canadians??

The 2nd amendment is American. Part of their constitution.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 01, 2019, 11:50:11 pm
The 2nd amendment is American. Part of their constitution.

You said “we”.   Who are you talking about???
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 02, 2019, 12:03:59 am
You said “we”.   Who are you talking about???

Americans I guess since it is their constitution in case you didn't know.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 02, 2019, 12:16:27 am
Americans I guess since it is their constitution in case you didn't know.

I knew...   are you American?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 02, 2019, 12:34:48 am
I knew...   are you American?

Totally.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 02, 2019, 03:06:38 am
America is in decay, i hope they turn it around some day.  Trump hasn't made America great again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 02, 2019, 03:58:03 pm
Trump now admits he doesn't know what a Cat. 5 hurricane is, and he didn't even know there was such a category, even though there have been at least 4 since he took office. I wonder who advises him as to which golf club he should select for the next shot? I'm sure there are some MLW weirdos who would be happy to help out. ;)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 04, 2019, 02:58:00 pm
Hey Trump takes credit for just about everything else, so why not for Dorian as well, given he doesn't believe in global warming.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 04, 2019, 04:15:18 pm
Trump now admits he doesn't know what a Cat. 5 hurricane is, and he didn't even know there was such a category, even though there have been at least 4 since he took office. I wonder who advises him as to which golf club he should select for the next shot? I'm sure there are some MLW weirdos who would be happy to help out. ;)
I saw a news clip that showed Trump saying the same thing before previous Hurricanes... "I didn't know there was a Category 5".

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/vb5v3d/trump-keeps-saying-hes-never-heard-of-a-category-5-hurricane

And in other weather news, Trump was talking about how Alabama could be affected by the hurricane. The national weather service came out and said no, Alabama won't be affected. So Trump actually had a map showing the hurricane's path, with part of Alabama included with a sharpie.

https://earther.gizmodo.com/hurricane-dorian-didnt-threaten-alabama-you-say-clear-1837877127
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 04, 2019, 04:31:28 pm
I saw a news clip that showed Trump saying the same thing before previous Hurricanes... "I didn't know there was a Category 5".

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/vb5v3d/trump-keeps-saying-hes-never-heard-of-a-category-5-hurricane

And in other weather news, Trump was talking about how Alabama could be affected by the hurricane. The national weather service came out and said no, Alabama won't be affected. So Trump actually had a map showing the hurricane's path, with part of Alabama included with a sharpie.

https://earther.gizmodo.com/hurricane-dorian-didnt-threaten-alabama-you-say-clear-1837877127

He's seems more focused on his latest goof than he is about people in the Carolinas who actually are in the storms path. "What's next"? from him is about all I can think of to conclude with.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 04, 2019, 09:10:17 pm
Turns out what is next is that Trump actually broke the law by taking out his black pen and altering the projected storm track of Dorian to include Alabama, (for whatever reason) He could get fined and spend 90 days in the hoosegow for that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on September 05, 2019, 08:44:13 am
The National Weather Service is FAKE NEWS!!!!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on September 05, 2019, 09:59:01 am
The sad part of Sharpie-Gate is Trump wants this type of crap in the news-cycle and not real nefarious things he's trying to do.

Trump fans will claim that people with TDS are just trying to discredit Trump whenever they can. When in reality people just corrected the error and moved on, he's the one that didn't let it go because this divisive crap being discussed is much less benign than him telling Aids to Break the Law to get a Wall built or him moving money from FEMA during Hurricane season to fake build a wall.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 05, 2019, 12:34:45 pm
Dorian continues it's way up the coast, flooding towns and cities in the Carolina's, blowing off roofs, and spawning tornadoes, at least one of which they have news video of touching down. Meanwhile Trump is still focusing and fuming on trying to pave over his Sharpie Gate/Alabama f***k up. How very "presidential" of him! 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 05, 2019, 04:21:57 pm
This storm is like the 'rinse' portion of your dentist visit, with respect to the Trump presidency.  It's nice to have a narrow band of f***-ups from him this week.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 05, 2019, 04:41:06 pm
This storm is like the 'rinse' portion of your dentist visit, with respect to the Trump presidency.  It's nice to have a narrow band of f***-ups from him this week.

I'm drifting here a bit but I wonder how the owner of that red Jeep is enjoying watching his/her vehicle they left stuck on Myrtle Beach being tossed about by the storm. Does flood insurance still cover if you drove out onto a sand beach in a hurricane? Hope they have Geico!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 05, 2019, 05:20:59 pm
People are really into that JEEP
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 06, 2019, 07:21:40 am
The sad part of Sharpie-Gate is Trump wants this type of crap in the news-cycle and not real nefarious things he's trying to do.

Trump fans will claim that people with TDS are just trying to discredit Trump whenever they can.
To be honest, I'm not sure if 'sharpie-gate' is a good thing or bad thing for Trump opponents.

Trump's faults have been pointed out before in various ways... Point out the connections with Russia, his various financial scandals, abuses along the border, and his supporters stick by him (perhaps with a "but her emails..." as a response, or "It makes libruls cry so its a good thing".)

But Sharpie-gate is so silly on the face of it, and there is very little that can be done to defend Trump over it. It makes Trump look petty and foolish, and maybe that may have more of an effect on his supporters than anything else.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on September 10, 2019, 09:36:30 am
Sharpie-Gate has actually become somewhat chilling.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/09/09/sharpiegate-noaa-reportedly-investigate-effort-bolster-trump/2269586001/

Apparently the Birmingham Office was reprimanded for disputing 45 and on Friday NOAA released a statement agreeing with Trump.

If that's not the work of a wannabe Authoritarian dictator, I don't know what is.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 10, 2019, 09:57:34 am
There are now calls for Wilbur Ross' resignation because he apparently threatened to fire NOAA officials if anybody contradicted Trump's claims.

Not sure why the Commerce Secretary is in charge of the national weather observatory. Seems strange to me.  Anyway. Ordering the national weather observatory to not do their job because it would hurt El Trumpo's fragile ego is shameful.

Anthony Scaramucci has been back in the news lately.  "The Mooch" was explaining how this whole Alabama fiasco is just another example of how Trump has "the self-esteem of a small pigeon."  He also talked about Trump being intimidated by Trudeau.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on September 10, 2019, 10:24:47 am

Anthony Scaramucci has been back in the news lately.  "The Mooch" was explaining how this whole Alabama fiasco is just another example of how Trump has "the self-esteem of a small pigeon."  He also talked about Trump being intimidated by Trudeau.

 -k

Bill Maher joked about that last week.

There are photos where both Ivanka and Melania are swooning over JT. He opined which made Trump more jealous?. . . neither then he showed a pic of JT with Putin.  :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 10, 2019, 11:59:15 am
And Bolton is out...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-bolton-national-security-1.5277652
President Donald Trump said Tuesday via Twitter that he had fired national security adviser John Bolton and will name a replacement next week. "I disagreed strongly with many of his suggestions, as did others in the Administration," said Trump, without getting into specifics.

People were concerned when Bolton was first appointed (and with good reason... he was a war hawk who was one of the ones pushing for the Iraq war, and might have gotten the U.S. involved in Iran or Venezuela.) But, now Trump will be hiring his 4th national security adviser since he took office. That's more than 1 a year.

Of course, the resignation isn't without controversy:

From the above article:
Bolton, in his own tweet, said he offered to resign on Monday night, contradicting the Trump claim that he asked Bolton for his resignation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 10, 2019, 12:19:08 pm
And Bolton is out...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-bolton-national-security-1.5277652
President Donald Trump said Tuesday via Twitter that he had fired national security adviser John Bolton and will name a replacement next week. "I disagreed strongly with many of his suggestions, as did others in the Administration," said Trump, without getting into specifics.

People were concerned when Bolton was first appointed (and with good reason... he was a war hawk who was one of the ones pushing for the Iraq war, and might have gotten the U.S. involved in Iran or Venezuela.) But, now Trump will be hiring his 4th national security adviser since he took office. That's more than 1 a year.

Of course, the resignation isn't without controversy:

From the above article:
Bolton, in his own tweet, said he offered to resign on Monday night, contradicting the Trump claim that he asked Bolton for his resignation.

Bolton did dare to disagree with his boss once in a while (unlike Pompeo, a complete ass kisser) but I think it was mostly to do with that damn mustache Trump didn't like.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on September 10, 2019, 12:25:43 pm
Bolton didn't tow the line on Trump inviting Terrorists to Camp David the week of 911.

I wonder if Pence is next?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 10, 2019, 01:14:21 pm
Bolton didn't tow the line on Trump inviting Terrorists to Camp David the week of 911.

I wonder if Pence is next?

I was never much of a fan of Bolton's but I must say him suggesting it might be a bad idea to entertain the Taliban @ Camp David is one issue I would completely agree with. Obviously disagreeing with Trump is dangerous. Now let's see, that reminds me of a European leader from a few decades ago who had a similar attitude and ended up starting a rather large war. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on September 10, 2019, 01:29:29 pm
I was never much of a fan of Bolton's but I must say him suggesting it might be a bad idea to entertain the Taliban @ Camp David is one issue I would completely agree with. Obviously disagreeing with Trump is dangerous. Now let's see, that reminds me of a European leader from a few decades ago who had a similar attitude and ended up starting a rather large war.

Godwin. Just sayin.

I will say Trump is clearly come at this whole POTUS thing a a complete Authoritarian.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 10, 2019, 01:54:53 pm
Godwin. Just sayin.

I will say Trump is clearly come at this whole POTUS thing a a complete Authoritarian.

Both have demonstrated they are manipulative narcissists and it took the former some time to get around to dropping (actual) bombs. Maybe that's one good reason the US has a two term limit, although you may have noted the current wishes to change that and keep the keys to the WH regardless of the ballot boxes.

Call it Godwin but if the shoe fits....just sayin. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 10, 2019, 04:40:25 pm
I'm waiting to see how many more "You can't fire me, I quit" cartoons emerge in Bolton's wake.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 10, 2019, 07:28:18 pm
Apparently FOX doesn't know how to handle this because Bolton and Trump are saying different stories... ooops

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 11, 2019, 05:43:28 am
I was never much of a fan of Bolton's but I must say him suggesting it might be a bad idea to entertain the Taliban @ Camp David is one issue I would completely agree with. Obviously disagreeing with Trump is dangerous. Now let's see, that reminds me of a European leader from a few decades ago who had a similar attitude and ended up starting a rather large war.

And, while I'm no fan of Trump's, I read today that Bolton was pushing for air strikes against Iran and Trump had no interest in doing that at all.  "Trump felt that Bolton was far too eager to get the US involved in an unnecessary military conflict" is something I read today.

While Trump is naive for thinking he can make deals with Li'l Kim or the Taliban, Bolton is a classic chickenhawk and the world is probably a safer place with him being fired.  I don't really want to give Trump credit for doing something right, since Trump hired Bolton in the first place... but at least Trump fixed a mistake.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 11, 2019, 11:47:29 am
And, while I'm no fan of Trump's, I read today that Bolton was pushing for air strikes against Iran and Trump had no interest in doing that at all.  "Trump felt that Bolton was far too eager to get the US involved in an unnecessary military conflict" is something I read today.

While Trump is naive for thinking he can make deals with Li'l Kim or the Taliban, Bolton is a classic chickenhawk and the world is probably a safer place with him being fired.  I don't really want to give Trump credit for doing something right, since Trump hired Bolton in the first place... but at least Trump fixed a mistake.

 -k

I think I'll wait until I see who Trump picks to replace Bolton before I conclude anything has been "fixed".
He may have difficulty finding someone to head NSA who approves of cozying up to dictators Like Kim/Putin/MBS etc.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 11, 2019, 10:07:47 pm
MAGA hat to a knife in the back. Anybody want a job in the current White House? Pompeo will be next.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 11, 2019, 11:40:15 pm
So, four national security advisors in three years. Anyone for five by next November? How about six?
How come the guy responsible for hiring all these losers never gets fired?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 12, 2019, 12:34:29 am
So, four national security advisors in three years. Anyone for five by next November? How about six?
How come the guy responsible for hiring all these losers never gets fired?

Competent people with the experience/knowledge/background to be able to occupy this office would likely find themselves disagreeing with "the boss", and that would get them fired. I see a glitch in the system, a clink in the armor, a rising swamp. The potential for metaphoric examples is seemingly endless.     
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 12, 2019, 07:30:20 pm
Trillion dollar deficit

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/12/business/us-federal-deficit-august/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 12, 2019, 09:38:14 pm
Double what it was when Deficit Donny took office.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 13, 2019, 04:52:52 am
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy-budget/u-s-fiscal-year-budget-deficit-widens-to-587-billion-idUSKBN12E2B5

Well...  seems about right  :o
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 15, 2019, 03:07:14 pm
Looks like gun deaths will continue apace under the guidance of Trump and the GOP.

“Every day that Senator McConnell blocks our House-passed, life-saving bills, an average of 100 people — including 47 children and teenagers — die from senseless gun violence,” the Democrats said, estimating 20,000 Americans have died from gun violence since the House passed the bill 200 days ago.

Trump signaled he supported the reform following two back-to-back shootings in less than 48 hours in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, last month. He later backtracked his comments, and the bill has yet to be considered in the GOP-controlled Senate.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/461493-chumer-and-pelosi-push-trump-to-back-universal-background-check-bill


"Praise the lord and pass the ammo"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 16, 2019, 11:09:25 pm
I wonder if Trump will getting around to declaring that the attack on Saudi Arabia came from Alabama. That will take a lot of ink from his Sharpie. :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 17, 2019, 12:55:54 pm
I fully expected this testimony by Lewandowski would turn into a shitshow and it has completely exceeded those expectations right from the start. i'm sure Trump is enjoying it though.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 19, 2019, 04:35:21 pm
So the latest Trump security issue:

From: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-whistleblower-new-details-emerge-in-whistleblower-case-as-officials-battle-over-report/
A whistleblower's report that was submitted to the inspector general for the intelligence community centers on an interaction between President Trump and a foreign leader...the Post reported that the interaction between Mr. Trump and the foreign leader involved a "promise."

The details of who the foreign leader was and what was promised is unknown, but it was serious enough to cause someone handling intelligence to raise a warning.

And so far:
- The complaint was not forwarded to congress within a required 7 day window
- The current Director of National intelligence is refusing a subpoena from congress to obtain the full report

Trump of course is claiming there was nothing wrong, questioning why anyone would believe he'd say something wrong on the phone with so many people potentially listening in. (But then, its Trump... the guy who has already given classified intelligence information to Russia and Iran. So yes, we'd believe he'd be foolish enough to say something stupid in a phone call.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 19, 2019, 08:09:24 pm
I can hardly wait to find out more.  Holy ****.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 19, 2019, 08:25:27 pm
Why does Chris Cuomo invite **** ambulance chasers like Guilliano on his show? Must be because of the noise it creates. It has F all to do with intelligent conversation. Good f ing god.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 19, 2019, 08:31:14 pm
"A promise".  WTF that could mean anything!  Leaders make assurances all the time.  Need more deets.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 20, 2019, 10:19:58 am
"A promise".  WTF that could mean anything!  Leaders make assurances all the time.  Need more deets.
Yes, we do need more details. And since Trump and his administration are pretty corrupt, its doubtful that they will be forthcoming.

There are various rumors that it involves Ukraine... That Trump was promising military aid in exchange for them launching an investigation into Joe Biden's and his son (who had business ties there). If that's true, it means Trump was taking taxpayer's money in order to sabotage the campaign of a political rival.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/20/20875221/whistleblower-ukraine-trump-biden-military-aid

Even if those rumors turn out to be false, the issue still worried someone in the intelligence community to report it (thus risking their jobs and even their freedom), and it was considered credible enough by the inspector general to act on it. And we know that the Trump administration failed to forward the issue on to Congress within a certain time frame (which may be illegal in itself).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 20, 2019, 03:06:35 pm
Well, offering the nation's military assistance to another country in exchange for personal favors certainly sounds like possibly among the most corrupt abuses of the office imaginable. 

I don't know if that would be a firing squad type thing or more of a lifetime in Leavenworth type thing, but it sounds pretty serious.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 22, 2019, 03:39:19 pm
If true, it doesn't look like anything can be done.

I was with some younger people this weekend, and they asked me to explain Watergate.  I did, and they said "hasn't Trump done worse than that ?" and I said "maybe but they don't have him on tape saying it"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 22, 2019, 03:50:21 pm
If true, it doesn't look like anything can be done.

I was with some younger people this weekend, and they asked me to explain Watergate.  I did, and they said "hasn't Trump done worse than that ?" and I said "maybe but they don't have him on tape saying it"

Well I guess we can conclude from that that he has learned one thing from a predecessor.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 23, 2019, 11:27:46 am
Quote
I was with some younger people this weekend, and they asked me to explain Watergate.  I did, and they said "hasn't Trump done worse than that ?" and I said "maybe but they don't have him on tape saying it"
Well I guess we can conclude from that that he has learned one thing from a predecessor.
Correction... they don't have him saying it on any tape that's available to the public or congressional democrats. Who knows what Putin or the Saudis have on tape.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on September 23, 2019, 11:38:49 am
It's clear Trump's tactic is do whatever he wants. No matter how illegal. And just let the courts settle it.

If/When a Democrat gets back into the office, it'll be interesting to see how the Republicans can honestly try and get the Congress to provide any oversight when Trump acts with utter impunity.

At this point he's daring the Democrats to impeach him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 23, 2019, 01:38:27 pm
It's clear Trump's tactic is do whatever he wants. No matter how illegal. And just let the courts settle it.

If/When a Democrat gets back into the office, it'll be interesting to see how the Republicans can honestly try and get the Congress to provide any oversight when Trump acts with utter impunity.

At this point he's daring the Democrats to impeach him.

He can afford to dare the Dems. because he knows the Repubs. have control of the senate and so won't convict. Impeachment could therefore backfire similarly as it did with Clinton. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on September 23, 2019, 02:46:49 pm
He can afford to dare the Dems. because he knows the Repubs. have control of the senate and so won't convict. Impeachment could therefore backfire similarly as it did with Clinton.

It seems this latest incident is so glaringly illegal that if you don't impeach him for that, then what?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 23, 2019, 03:02:59 pm
It seems this latest incident is so glaringly illegal that if you don't impeach him for that, then what?

Hopefully Congress will get to see the transcripts and then perhaps impeachment will become imperative.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 23, 2019, 05:04:44 pm
It seems this latest incident is so glaringly illegal that if you don't impeach him for that, then what?
Sadly, it all comes down to public perception.

If the republicans can think they can fool the public and hide the results (as they did with the Mueller report) they will stand behind Trump. And without at least some republicans on board, an appeal and conviction won't go anywhere.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 23, 2019, 05:18:25 pm
He can afford to dare the Dems. because he knows the Repubs. have control of the senate and so won't convict. Impeachment could therefore backfire similarly as it did with Clinton.
Personally, I have no idea whether its a good idea or bad idea to impeach.

If they impeach and fail to actually remove Trump from office (as expected, with the Republicans in control), it might backfire (for example by increasing Republican participation in 2020). On the other hand, the impeachment process might help publicize Trump's crimes to current GOP supporters who have been living in a Trump-friendly media bubble, and cause a few of them to have second thoughts.

Of course, there's also the chance that Impeachment might actually succeed. Remember, when impeachment proceedings started against Nixon, it was an uphill battle. Public support for impeachment was fairly low, and he had enough support in congress to prevent being removed from office. It wasn't until more information got released that both public sentiment and the republican party started to turn against him. Maybe the same may happen to Trump.... if Trump starts to lose supporters (for example, if a recession hits) and he can no longer cause current congress critters to be 'primaried' then perhaps he will lose enough support in congress so that they can be free to convict.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 23, 2019, 05:23:56 pm
Personally, I have no idea whether its a good idea or bad idea to impeach.

If they impeach and fail to actually remove Trump from office (as expected, with the Republicans in control), it might backfire (for example by increasing Republican participation in 2020). On the other hand, the impeachment process might help publicize Trump's crimes to current GOP supporters who have been living in a Trump-friendly media bubble, and cause a few of them to have second thoughts.

Of course, there's also the chance that Impeachment might actually succeed. Remember, when impeachment proceedings started against Nixon, it was an uphill battle. Public support for impeachment was fairly low, and he had enough support in congress to prevent being removed from office. It wasn't until more information got released that both public sentiment and the republican party started to turn against him. Maybe the same may happen to Trump.... if Trump starts to lose supporters (for example, if a recession hits) and he can no longer cause current congress critters to be 'primaried' then perhaps he will lose enough support in congress so that they can be free to convict.

I'll be interested to see what impact this transcript of the Ukraine phone call will have, if it is produced, and if it's not heavily redacted.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 23, 2019, 07:11:01 pm
It seems this latest incident is so glaringly illegal that if you don't impeach him for that, then what?

This is what people are saying.  And the ones the scardiest are the Republicans.  They may not ever be able to stop him, and he is in a position where he could ruin the party.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 23, 2019, 07:12:09 pm
I'll be interested to see what impact this transcript of the Ukraine phone call will have, if it is produced, and if it's not heavily redacted.

CNN was pointing out that without the full complaint from the whistleblower we don't know if we have the full story.

-The phone call might not have an obvious tell of what happened
-Or it might and Trump is bluffing about releasing it
-Or Trump isn't even thinking 1 step ahead right now
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 23, 2019, 08:19:01 pm
CNN was pointing out that without the full complaint from the whistleblower we don't know if we have the full story.

-The phone call might not have an obvious tell of what happened
-Or it might and Trump is bluffing about releasing it
-Or Trump isn't even thinking 1 step ahead right now

Yes it would certainly put a further interesting spin on the ball if the whistleblower would come forward.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on September 24, 2019, 08:34:24 am
In Trump's America, using his office to force another country's leader to make up dirt on a political opponent is just how things are done.

It seems he's successfully numbed most people to an appalling level of corruption.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 24, 2019, 08:38:21 am
Well, offering the nation's military assistance to another country in exchange for personal favors certainly sounds like possibly among the most corrupt abuses of the office imaginable. 

I don't know if that would be a firing squad type thing or more of a lifetime in Leavenworth type thing, but it sounds pretty serious.

 -k
He appropriated Congressional funding for foreign aid to bribe a foreign country into digging up dirt on his political opponents. Watergate was absolutely nothing in comparison to this. Nixon didn't create a constitutional crisis digging up dirt on opponents.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 24, 2019, 12:19:45 pm
Something tells me that there is damage being done to the Republican brand here.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on September 24, 2019, 12:29:11 pm
He appropriated Congressional funding for foreign aid to bribe a foreign country into digging up dirt on his political opponents. Watergate was absolutely nothing in comparison to this. Nixon didn't create a constitutional crisis digging up dirt on opponents.

The excuse, which his base and GOP senators will believe, is that he withheld the money because other European countries weren't doing their share to support Ukraine.  ::)

That, of course, is why the funds were released the day after the Whistleblower story broke.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 24, 2019, 01:02:55 pm
The excuse, which his base and GOP senators will believe, is that he withheld the money because other European countries weren't doing their share to support Ukraine.  ::)

That, of course, is why the funds were released the day after the Whistleblower story broke.

Uh... what ?  ???

A man on the street asked me for money, but I didn't pay him because I was punishing Waldo for not doing his share ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 24, 2019, 04:09:59 pm
Well Nancy Pelosi has weighed in, impeachment inquiry it is. The tweetstorm from the WH should start any moment. Popcorn anyone?

Things should get pretty heated over at redneckville (mlw) when tax, bc04 etc. react.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 24, 2019, 07:01:44 pm
-Or Trump isn't even thinking 1 step ahead right now

Trump is a stable genius, he plays 3D chess (or is that 6G).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 24, 2019, 07:34:41 pm
Well Nancy Pelosi has weighed in, impeachment inquiry it is. The tweetstorm from the WH should start any moment. Popcorn anyone?
 

They know it's not going to happen so they should try to make it go as fast as possible.  The point is to get names on the record as supporting Drumpf.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on September 25, 2019, 09:07:37 am
They know it's not going to happen so they should try to make it go as fast as possible.  The point is to get names on the record as supporting Drumpf.

I disagree. This should be drawn out. Let Trump's crimes be laid to bare and in the public eye until the Democratic candidate is named.

I'm wondering if revelations from the Mueller report will be used as additional evidence in this Inquiry or can the scope only be to what was done here. The Clinton investigation turned into lying about a Blowjob when it's genesis was something very different.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 25, 2019, 11:48:04 am
I'm wondering if revelations from the Mueller report will be used as additional evidence in this Inquiry or can the scope only be to what was done here. The Clinton investigation turned into lying about a Blowjob when it's genesis was something very different.
I think they can include anything they want in the articles of impeachment, even of the items are not directly completed.

Some of the crimes they can include:
- Ukranian/whistleblower allegations
- Obstruction of Justice, such as attempting to fire Mueller (from the Mueller report)
- Perjury (re: Mueller's statements that Trump's written responses were not truthful)
- Sharpie-gate: Giving false weather information (warning Alabama it could be hit by hurricane Dorian) is technically a crime
- Campaign finance violations related to Stormy Daniels payments, as layed out by Cohen
- Emoluments related to foreign countries (e.g. when countries like Saudi Arabia rent his hotel rooms)
- Emoluments related to the United states (e.g. when U.S. military uses Trump resorts in Ireland)
- Promises to pardon people who break the law over construction of the border wall
- Violations of the Presidential Records Act, which requires documents that the president has handled to be stored (Trump has a habit of ripping up, and even eating documents he has handled.)
- Crimes related to his actions before he became president (there are suggestions: he was engaged in money laundering for the Russians, engaged in tax fraud such as lending money to himself to avoid taxes, used the Trump Foundation improperly, and engaged in insurance fraud)

The question now becomes: What to include? Try including too many charges, and they may be seen as being 'petty'. Include only one or 2 main charges, and people will accuse the Democrats of giving Trump a 'free ride' over many of his crimes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 25, 2019, 03:54:45 pm
Just listening to Trump's latest news conference. I quickly ran out of fingers and toes trying to keep track of his lies. The man is losing whatever marbles he had left.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on September 26, 2019, 12:03:36 pm
This is really bad for Trump.

The argument that the complaint isn't first-handed has been blown up. The complaint is backed up by the transcript.

So the only two defences Trump has is:

1) The part about the call is true but the allegations of the coverup is a lie:
2) What Trump did isn't a crime.

Both are pretty crappy excuses.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 26, 2019, 12:52:49 pm
This is really bad for Trump.

The argument that the complaint isn't first-handed has been blown up. The complaint is backed up by the transcript.

So the only two defences Trump has is:

1) The part about the call is true but the allegations of the coverup is a lie:
2) What Trump did isn't a crime.

Both are pretty crappy excuses.

Transferring that call to the "classified" area to hide it pretty much underscores the attempt of a coverup. And there may or may not have been a quid pro quo in the call which would bring it to the level of a crime, but there certainly is an impeachable offense there. And of course one does not need to look far to find criminal activity by Trump:

    Causing American Media Inc. (AMI) to make and/or accepting (or causing his then lawyer Michael Cohen to accept) an unlawful corporate contribution related to Karen McDougal.
    Two instances of causing Cohen to make and/or accepting an unlawful individual contributions related to Stephanie Clifford and February 2015 online polling.
    Two instances of causing Donald J. Trump for President LLC’s failure to report contributions from AMI and Cohen related to McDougal and Clifford.
    Causing Donald J. Trump for President LLC to file false reports with the Federal Election Commission (FEC).
    Making a false statement by failing to disclose liability to Cohen for the Clifford payment on his 2017 public financial disclosure form.
    Conspiracy to defraud the United States by undermining the lawful function of the FEC and/or violating federal campaign finance law related to “hush money” payments, false statements, and cover-ups of reimbursement payments to Cohen made by the Trump Organization.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 26, 2019, 12:57:02 pm
This is really bad for Trump.

The argument that the complaint isn't first-handed has been blown up. The complaint is backed up by the transcript.

So the only two defences Trump has is:

1) The part about the call is true but the allegations of the coverup is a lie:
2) What Trump did isn't a crime.
Well, the whistleblower complaint that lead to all this has been made public... and since one of the actions white house staff took after the phone call was to put the transcript on a special secured server meant for classified information, its kind of hard to claim "no coverup".

You forgot another tactic: Try to smear Biden as much as possible to claim a false equivalency.

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 26, 2019, 01:05:41 pm
Wait a second, what whistleblower are we talking about today?

From: https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/trump-tax-whistleblower-irs_n_5d8bafc6e4b08f48f4ae8978
...there’s another whistleblower ― one with possible evidence that Trump tried to corrupt an Internal Revenue Service audit of his personal tax returns ― who has received relatively little attention.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on September 26, 2019, 01:12:53 pm
Well, the whistleblower complaint that lead to all this has been made public... and since one of the actions white house staff took after the phone call was to put the transcript on a special secured server meant for classified information, its kind of hard to claim "no coverup".

This was touched on in the hearing. If not for the Whistleblower complaint, would the evidence of this call ever been made public?

The Whistleblower complaint was the remedy to the coverup.

Quote
You forgot another tactic: Try to smear Biden as much as possible to claim a false equivalency.

Yeah, that's kind of claiming no crime. How is it bad that Trump blackmailed Ukraine, Biden did it as Veep!!!!!

It'll be fun if all this effort is wasted on Biden and he ends up facing Sanders or Warren.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 26, 2019, 01:31:29 pm
This was touched on in the hearing. If not for the Whistleblower complaint, would the evidence of this call ever been made public?

The Whistleblower complaint was the remedy to the coverup.

Yeah, that's kind of claiming no crime. How is it bad that Trump blackmailed Ukraine, Biden did it as Veep!!!!!

It'll be fun if all this effort is wasted on Biden and he ends up facing Sanders or Warren.

Yeah Trump continues desperately to point fingers at the Biden's but with zero evidence that continues to fall flat and simply underscores the desperation he is now feeling.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 26, 2019, 02:29:12 pm
Trump now suggests the whistleblower should be considered a spy and carries on saying "we all know how we used to deal with spies". This of course would be laughable to most of us, but what is scary is that if the whistleblower identity is ever revealed, there could be some nutbar who supports Trump who might take his comments seriously and carry out what he suggests.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 26, 2019, 02:35:33 pm
This is really bad for Trump.

The argument that the complaint isn't first-handed has been blown up. The complaint is backed up by the transcript.

Just a correction...   the “transcript” is actually only a summary of notes released by the Whitehouse.  There is no actual transcript of the call that was released. 

So as bad as the summary is, I’m guessing the actual transcript verbatim is much worse. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on September 26, 2019, 02:51:44 pm
Trump now suggests the whistleblower should be considered a spy and carries on saying "we all know how we used to deal with spies". This of course would be laughable to most of us, but what is scary is that if the whistleblower identity is ever revealed, there could be some nutbar who supports Trump who might take his comments seriously and carry out what he suggests.

He actually was talking about those who told the Whistleblower about the call. The Whistleblower admits it wasn't a first-hand recounting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 26, 2019, 02:59:30 pm
He actually was talking about those who told the Whistleblower about the call. The Whistleblower admits it wasn't a first-hand recounting.

Correct. More people to target.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 26, 2019, 03:11:58 pm
He actually was talking about those who told the Whistleblower about the call. The Whistleblower admits it wasn't a first-hand recounting.

And apparently the whistleblower's account of the transcript that has been released is nearly verbatim. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 26, 2019, 03:52:26 pm
Giuliani now thinks he will be the "hero" when all this Ukraine scandal is over. Yikes, he seems to be losing his marbles perhaps even more so than his boss. Maybe we'll need to start a "Rudy thread". 

“It is impossible that the whistle-blower is a hero and I’m not. And I will be the hero! These morons—when this is over, I will be the hero,” Giuliani told me.

“I’m not acting as a lawyer. I’m acting as someone who has devoted most of his life to straightening out government,” he continued, sounding out of breath. “Anything I did should be praised.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/09/giuliani-ukraine-trump-biden/598879/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2019, 12:19:30 am
The House now has more than the number required in favor of impeaching Trump to proceed, so he may well earn a place in history, although not the one he was hoping for.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 27, 2019, 08:53:26 am
Also, and this is essential - a big jump in public support for impeachment.  I heard 13%.

This one may actually stick to him.

It's funny how many Republican Senators say they haven't read the report yet.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 27, 2019, 10:38:26 am
Giuliani now thinks he will be the "hero" when all this Ukraine scandal is over. Yikes, he seems to be losing his marbles perhaps even more so than his boss. Maybe we'll need to start a "Rudy thread". 

“It is impossible that the whistle-blower is a hero and I’m not. And I will be the hero! These morons—when this is over, I will be the hero,” Giuliani told me.

“I’m not acting as a lawyer. I’m acting as someone who has devoted most of his life to straightening out government,” he continued, sounding out of breath. “Anything I did should be praised.”
Of course he's not "acting as a lawyer". A lawyer would recognize that as a private citizen it is illegal to negotiate with foreign governments on behalf of the U.S. government.

Basically Giulliani was breaking the law.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on September 27, 2019, 10:49:53 am
Also, and this is essential - a big jump in public support for impeachment.  I heard 13%.

This one may actually stick to him.

It's funny how many Republican Senators say they haven't read the report yet.
13% want him impeached, a jump of 13%, or a jump of 13 points on the previous percentage?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2019, 03:54:20 pm
Of course he's not "acting as a lawyer". A lawyer would recognize that as a private citizen it is illegal to negotiate with foreign governments on behalf of the U.S. government.

Basically Giulliani was breaking the law.

We see Pompeo has now been subpoenaed and I'm wondering if Giulliani will be next. You never know what's coming out of his mouth next so I think it would be an interesting day in court with him. I imagine a good number of people in the WH would be happy to see him gone.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 27, 2019, 07:56:58 pm
13% want him impeached, a jump of 13%, or a jump of 13 points on the previous percentage?

A jump on the previous percentage.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2019, 08:14:24 pm
And the plot sickens:

President Trump said he was not concerned about Russia's 2016 election interference during a 2017 meeting with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak, the Washington Post reports.

    This was the same meeting in which Trump reportedly revealed highly classified information about an ISIS plot.

https://www.axios.com/trump-russians-2016-election-interference-0f508682-3bac-4861-8557-1cbc2ab28aab.html

If substantiated that should bring that dang "impeachment" word Trump so hates ringing ever louder in his ears.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 27, 2019, 08:26:53 pm
Yeah I just saw that story and came over to comment.

So, this is literally treasonous isn't it?  Telling the country that Russia didn't interfere, while telling them you don't care that they actually did?

Republican party is the swamp...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2019, 08:37:22 pm
Yeah I just saw that story and came over to comment.

So, this is literally treasonous isn't it?  Telling the country that Russia didn't interfere, while telling them you don't care that they actually did?

Republican party is the swamp...

Apparently he claimed what Russia did was OK because the US does the same thing in other countries elections. If he has evidence of that he should spell it out. I suspect/hope it's not true. That comment just hanging there simply adds to the current shyte show he has already created.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 27, 2019, 08:40:08 pm
The US did dirty things in Latin America and such during the cold war.

But allowing Russians to interfere is a strange kind of contrition.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2019, 08:59:22 pm
The US did dirty things in Latin America and such during the cold war.

But allowing Russians to interfere is a strange kind of contrition.

Trump suggests there is no kind of contrition.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 28, 2019, 01:23:44 am
Jagmeet Singh showing how incompetent he is once again and how utterly inexperienced he is in diplomacy and foreign relations, unnecessarily saying he hopes Trump is impeached.  Way to p!ss off the POTUS of our main ally & trading partner you dumbass.  Think it, don't say it. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jagmeet-singh-really-wants-trump-impeachment-1.5301329
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 28, 2019, 02:18:28 pm
Apparently he claimed what Russia did was OK because the US does the same thing in other countries elections.


It's ok to be a crook because everyone must be a crook. I am surrounded by crooks, so everything is fine.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on September 28, 2019, 07:41:10 pm
Trillion dollar deficit

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/12/business/us-federal-deficit-august/index.html
What happened to all that money tarrifs are bringing in?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on September 28, 2019, 07:49:15 pm
It seems this latest incident is so glaringly illegal that if you don't impeach him for that, then what?
How about making himself President for Life or would it be too late for impeachment in that case?  I guess we could hope the 2nd Amendment Folks would step up to the plate at that point except...you know.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 29, 2019, 01:09:29 pm
What happened to all that money tarrifs are bringing in?

It is transferred to billionaires through their tax cuts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 29, 2019, 08:27:54 pm
Jagmeet Singh showing how incompetent he is once again and how utterly inexperienced he is in diplomacy and foreign relations, unnecessarily saying he hopes Trump is impeached.  Way to p!ss off the POTUS of our main ally & trading partner you dumbass.  Think it, don't say it. 
 

Luckily, his profile is so low that it barely even registered in our election, let alone internationally.  I think I could say something that would generate more outrage.

Folks, these are challenging times.  Let's start electing visionaries, not just lawyers in different costumes.  It's great that we have a Sikh national leader but we need to get over ourselves and start paying attention to ideas...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 29, 2019, 08:28:50 pm
Trump is insisting he should get to confront the whistleblower.  That person is likely fearing for their safety today.

Way to go, USA.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 29, 2019, 08:48:12 pm
Trump is insisting he should get to confront the whistleblower.  That person is likely fearing for their safety today.

Way to go, USA.

How could he NOT be fearing for his safety when Trump suggests he should be executed as a traitor? I find it an interesting quirk that his lawyer(s) have to be examined for security clearance in order to be with him/her during their giving testimony in front of congress.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 29, 2019, 09:09:35 pm
JFC, I just heard on CTV that the Whistleblower is under protection now.   >:( 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 29, 2019, 09:16:30 pm
JFC, I just heard on CTV that the Whistleblower is under protection now.   >:(

I wonder if Trump is looking around for a Jack Ruby.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 29, 2019, 09:22:45 pm
I wonder if Trump is looking around for a Jack Ruby.

He's associated with oligarchs who are brutal organized criminals. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 29, 2019, 09:30:37 pm
He's associated with oligarchs who are brutal organized criminals.

MBS could help out I'm sure. He knows how to get rid of American journalists after all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 30, 2019, 01:17:49 pm
I see Trump is now demanding to meet with the whistleblower. Lets hope that doesn't happen or you might as well paint a target on his/her back.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 30, 2019, 03:06:09 pm
And Giulliani has just been subpoenaed and he has to obey it. No executive privilege for him.The way he seems to be losing his marbles of late, I'd be worried if I was Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 30, 2019, 04:37:57 pm
And Giulliani has just been subpoenaed and he has to obey it. No executive privilege for him

He will quote attorney/client privilege; but then he claimed the State department are the ones who sent him in as a special envoy so that should not apply.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 30, 2019, 07:26:37 pm
I see Trump is now demanding to meet with the whistleblower. Lets hope that doesn't happen or you might as well paint a target on his/her back.

True - but they have named enough individuals on the call and the other breadcrumbs.  They only have to verify what was said - or get the actual transcript or tape, then testimony from the other miscreants who were involved.  Somebody is going to break. 

And more and more today - Australia was pressured ?  They are not a 2nd world fledgling democracy - they are five eyes.  He may have leaned on Trudeau also.

And we almost forgot about the 2017 story that broke YESTERDAY - that would be the #1 story of the year for any other administration - that Trump told the Russians he didn't care about their incursion into American democracy.

He is flailing and it will be a slow and horrible burn for all of us.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 30, 2019, 08:31:37 pm
True - but they have named enough individuals on the call and the other breadcrumbs.  They only have to verify what was said - or get the actual transcript or tape, then testimony from the other miscreants who were involved.  Somebody is going to break. 

And more and more today - Australia was pressured ?  They are not a 2nd world fledgling democracy - they are five eyes.  He may have leaned on Trudeau also.

And we almost forgot about the 2017 story that broke YESTERDAY - that would be the #1 story of the year for any other administration - that Trump told the Russians he didn't care about their incursion into American democracy.

He is flailing and it will be a slow and horrible burn for all of us.

Yes I heard the Australia thing as well as a bunch of the rest going on today. I think the best conclusion I can think of at the moment is to simply quote m'lady who, as I returned from some kitchen duty and joined her on the couch simply shook her head and said "I can't keep up with this crazy ****"! Luckily I had poured a couple of glasses of red before I left the kitchen. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 30, 2019, 08:44:21 pm
https://twitter.com/ZaraRahim/status/1178822049327910912

Watch this.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 30, 2019, 09:20:03 pm
https://twitter.com/ZaraRahim/status/1178822049327910912

Watch this.

I would call that a reasonable summation currently.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 01, 2019, 02:09:00 pm
Rudy Giuliani has now hired himself a lawyer to help deal with the subpoena issued with regard to his connection to the Ukraine phone call thingy. Probably a good idea since I'm sure Rudy is well aware of the old adage that "any lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client". I can't think of a case were that statement could be more applicable. 

https://www.axios.com/rudy-giuliani-lawyer-ukraine-investigation-7b8fd109-d9da-45c4-a689-bfd9b1a50f2c.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 01, 2019, 09:51:57 pm
It has now been revealed that Trump suggested in a WH meeting that that not only did he want a wall, but also a mote filled with snakes and alligators to impede immigrant flow, and also to shoot them in the legs as an added impediment. If that is accurate then I think after impeachment I will head down to Washington, grab that piece of ****, haul him down to the Everglades, shoot him in the legs and throw him to the gators and snakes. Before he's completely gone, I would drag his ass out, show him a video of himself suggesting the same thing be done to immigrants fleeing violence, poverty, and then I would throw his sorry ass back in. When he was done I would chop up pices and mail them to the likes of BC etc. over at MLW who continue to support this prick.
Am I angry? Yeah a little bit.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7527135/Trump-demanded-border-wall-alligator-snake-moat-wanted-immigrants-shot-LEGS.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on October 02, 2019, 08:10:56 am
It has now been revealed that Trump suggested in a WH meeting that that not only did he want a wall, but also a mote filled with snakes and alligators to impede immigrant flow, and also to shoot them in the legs as an added impediment. If that is accurate then I think after impeachment I will head down to Washington, grab that piece of ****, haul him down to the Everglades, shoot him in the legs and throw him to the gators and snakes. Before he's completely gone, I would drag his ass out, show him a video of himself suggesting the same thing be done to immigrants fleeing violence, poverty, and then I would throw his sorry ass back in. When he was done I would chop up pices and mail them to the likes of BC etc. over at MLW who continue to support this prick.
Am I angry? Yeah a little bit.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7527135/Trump-demanded-border-wall-alligator-snake-moat-wanted-immigrants-shot-LEGS.html

He's obviously a crazy person.

But I think crap like this is part of his schtick. Constantly saying crazy stuff so no one really knows which are the important things to be outraged by.

We see it with this Impeachment. How can you impeach a guy for asking a foreign leader to look into a political rival when he does all this other crazy stuff?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 02, 2019, 02:08:01 pm
Wow Trump is certainly making an ass of himself currently at a press conference during a meeting with the Pres. of Finland. Dodging and ducking questions, hurling insults, false accusations and pissing his pants over the various scandals including the recent Ukraine thing. Nothing presidential do I see there.

Plenty of BS though.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 02, 2019, 07:14:10 pm
I kind of feel that they need to keep the pressure up daily to make him crack, now that the game is on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 02, 2019, 07:51:10 pm
I kind of feel that they need to keep the pressure up daily to make him crack, now that the game is on.

Bad strategy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 02, 2019, 08:00:36 pm
Bad strategy.

Sure.  I can take that.  I just came up with it on the spot


Why do you think it's bad ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 02, 2019, 09:52:43 pm
Trump got himself a ton of coverage on prime time news but I bet it's not the type he was hoping for. I'm sure his little fingers will be getting a serious workout on his follow up tweet storm.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on October 03, 2019, 12:48:56 pm
Why do you think it's bad ?

Cornering a rat with the nuclear launch codes in not a good idea.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on October 03, 2019, 01:16:01 pm
Trump realized he screwed up. He asked for Ukraine to investigate Biden in private. Big Mistake.

You can't commit crimes in private, you get impeached for doing that. But if you commit the crimes for everyone to see, s'all good.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 03, 2019, 01:24:41 pm
Trump realized he screwed up. He asked for Ukraine to investigate Biden in private. Big Mistake.

You can't commit crimes in private, you get impeached for doing that. But if you commit the crimes for everyone to see, s'all good.

Trump is losing his marbles again today with his rant on the WH lawn and publicly asking china to investigate the Bidens. At the same time Pence is showing what a lap dog he is by endorsing what Trump is doing. So maybe they both get impeached and can you imagine the tweets that will come out as Nancy Pelosi gets sworn in.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 03, 2019, 01:44:11 pm
They make it up as they go along.

The latest is that people will buy that ordering an investigation of your opponent is highly necessary if he's corrupt and engages in NEPOTISM !  ( IMAGINE ! )

It's quite the gambit and no strategic thinker would come up with that.

It's called button mashing.  Hit all the buttons and hope it pays off.

I have no idea if it will work.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on October 03, 2019, 01:54:44 pm
They make it up as they go along.

The latest is that people will buy that ordering an investigation of your opponent is highly necessary if he's corrupt and engages in NEPOTISM !  ( IMAGINE ! )

It's quite the gambit and no strategic thinker would come up with that.

It's called button mashing.  Hit all the buttons and hope it pays off.

I have no idea if it will work.

It's all a public opinion exercise. If enough people believe that what Trump did is fine, then he's fine.

He muddies the waters by lying about what was actually in the transcript, hoping people won't actually read the transcripts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 03, 2019, 02:30:38 pm
I find it interesting that on the one hand Trump is waging a trade war against China, and at the same time asking them to dig up dirt which will help him get reelected. Or is this a tit for tat where if they find the dirt he wants he'll take down the tariffs? If there's not something illegal in all that I'll eat my hat.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 04, 2019, 08:36:15 am
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-china-promise-hong-kong-silence-trade-progress-cnn-2019-10

Trump would stay quiet on Hong Kong if trade talks progressed...  :'(
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 05, 2019, 09:54:29 am
The avalanche of stories continues...

US Senator says Trump withheld Ukraine funding announcement pending 2016 election investigation...
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/republican-senator-says-u-s-diplomat-told-him-ukraine-aid-was-contingent-on-2016-election-investigation
(Fox news story !)

2nd whistleblower in the wings

Trump cuts National Security Funding

Pompeo misses deadline for subpoena

White House subpoena'd

McCarthy asks for Democrats to share impeachment strategy (?)

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on October 05, 2019, 12:52:11 pm
McCarthy asks for Democrats to share impeachment strategy (?)

Investigate, Prosecute, Convict, Jail
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 05, 2019, 03:13:54 pm
Jeez, even Tucker Carlson over at Faux news weighed in against Trump's phone call the the Ukraine. What is the world coming to?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 05, 2019, 05:08:53 pm
Jeez, even Tucker Carlson over at Faux news weighed in against Trump's phone call the the Ukraine. What is the world coming to?

Right, but I think he's saying impeachment is too far.  Still.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on October 05, 2019, 07:15:06 pm
Cornering a rat with the nuclear launch codes in not a good idea.
How the hell a rat got his hands on the codes to start with is the real issue.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 06, 2019, 10:17:37 am
-2nd whistle blower comes forward
-Susan Collins calls out Trump
-Trump goes after Romney
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 06, 2019, 02:41:52 pm
I think I'm now as I hear more from Pence I am convinced they should impeach the both of them. He is such a Trump ass kisser then send them both kickin' horse turds down the road. At least Pelosi has experience, intelligence, and she's not a pushover, demonstrated ironically by her reluctance to push for impeachment. What a gong show. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 06, 2019, 03:06:55 pm
I think I'm now as I hear more from Pence I am convinced they should impeach the both of them. He is such a Trump ass kisser then send them both kickin' horse turds down the road. At least Pelosi has experience, intelligence, and she's not a pushover, demonstrated ironically by her reluctance to push for impeachment. What a gong show.

Good luck with that....    they’ll be lucky just to impeach Trump.  In fact, it’s likely he’ll be exonerated by the senate. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 06, 2019, 03:15:28 pm
Good luck with that....    they’ll be lucky just to impeach Trump.  In fact, it’s likely he’ll be exonerated by the senate.

Impeachment is a rather quirky proposition which has never worked before so Trump may get away with his crap. But to say "exonerated" by senate is a bit of a stretch. Not convicted is about as far as it goes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 06, 2019, 03:59:08 pm
Impeachment is a rather quirky proposition which has never worked before so Trump may get away with his crap. But to say "exonerated" by senate is a bit of a stretch. Not convicted is about as far as it goes.

If the senate votes to not impeach, it will be seen as an exoneration. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 06, 2019, 04:11:31 pm
If the senate votes to not impeach, it will be seen as an exoneration.

By the 30 some % of the knuckle draggers who continue to support him perhaps. However I think the rest will not be dumb enough to conclude that a vote from the heavily Repub. weighted senate will be convincing as to a lack of any guilt on Trumps part.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 06, 2019, 06:28:16 pm
Impeachment is a complete waste of time and resources.  Donald could be found guilty of whatever charges but would be pardoned by his VP, just like Nixon.  The POTUS is immune to the law.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 06, 2019, 07:47:41 pm
Impeachment is a complete waste of time and resources.  Donald could be found guilty of whatever charges but would be pardoned by his VP, just like Nixon.  The POTUS is immune to the law.

Um, no he's not. Only while he sits in the WH. Once he's evicted he has no more immunity than you or I do.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 06, 2019, 07:51:02 pm
Um, no he's not. Only while he sits in the WH. Once he's evicted he has no more immunity than you or I do.

He can be pardoned by a member of his own party when they take over POTUS, like Nixon was. If Trump is booted, Pence becomes POTUS, and he'd pardon him in 2 seconds.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 06, 2019, 07:57:54 pm
He can be pardoned by a member of his own party when they take over POTUS, like Nixon was. If Trump is booted, Pence becomes POTUS, and he'd pardon him in 2 seconds.

Pardon power in the US rests solely with the POTUS, and it only applies to federal law, not state. And NY state has him in their sites.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on October 07, 2019, 10:29:42 am
I think there are crimes he may face from the SDNY that can't be pardoned by another POTUS.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 07, 2019, 01:51:02 pm
Even Republicans are rebuking Trumps choice to betray and abandon the Kurds. He obviously knows jack shyte about what goes on beyond the WH lawn.  He will end up with blood on his hands with this latest stupid move.
ISIS must be overjoyed.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/disaster-betrayal-mistake-republicans-slam-trump-s-syria-pull-out-n1063251
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 07, 2019, 05:48:49 pm
Even Republicans are rebuking Trumps choice to betray and abandon the Kurds. He obviously knows jack shyte about what goes on beyond the WH lawn.  He will end up with blood on his hands with this latest stupid move.
ISIS must be overjoyed.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/disaster-betrayal-mistake-republicans-slam-trump-s-syria-pull-out-n1063251

What's everyone worried about...  the President has got this...

Quote
“If Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey,” the president tweeted.

The only way it could have been stronger is if it was ALL CAPS!!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 07, 2019, 07:47:50 pm
I think capping the E in economy in that sentence is grounds for impeachment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 07, 2019, 11:44:12 pm
"My great and unmatched wisdom"
Yeah OK Donny.
I bet there a few folks over at mlw who are sucking this **** up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 08, 2019, 11:41:55 am
Impeachment is a complete waste of time and resources.  Donald could be found guilty of whatever charges but would be pardoned by his VP, just like Nixon.  The POTUS is immune to the law.
As others have said, even if he's pardoned by Pence, he'd still be liable for state charges.

But there are other benefits: Even if Trump is never actually removed from power, or is impeached and subsequently pardoned, the extra scrutiny that comes with the impeachment process will give a better indication to the voters about what type of person Stubby McBonespurs really is. It will also force Congressional republicans to justify their support for him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 08, 2019, 11:53:14 am
Here's something to think about...

Remember during the election campaign, when Trump sent out that picture of him celebrating Hispanic culture by eating a taco bowl? (Ok, at the time people thought it was just stupid and pandering.)

But, apparently there is another issue with the picture....

If you look to the right in the picture, you can see an open drawer with several boxes of Sudafed. (To be exact, its the British version of the drug.) Now, generally Sudafed is an over-the-counter medication, but generally you can't buy too much at once (since people often abuse it.) But there is Trump, with multiple boxes; and what's worse is that he has the UK version, which has components the U.S. version doesn't have.

Donald J. Trump... President, con-artist, racist.... drug addict.

And he has his hand on the nuclear button.

https://crooksandliars.com/2019/10/we-need-talk-about-picture-donald-trump
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 08, 2019, 12:21:24 pm
I think there are crimes he may face from the SDNY that can't be pardoned by another POTUS.
Minor nitpick... If I understand correctly, the SDNY is a federal court. So if Trump is pardoned by Pence, it wouldn't be the SDNY that would have the honor of putting him up on trial.

On the other hand, there are a variety of state-level courts (including district courts in New York) where Trump could be tried, regardless of whether he was pardoned. It just wouldn't be the SDNY.

And on that note:

Trump recently lost a lawsuit in New York to keep his tax returns private. Prosecutors were investigating Trump's (possibly illegal) campaign contributions during the 2016 elections. Trump claimed "You can't even investigate a president, much less charge him." The judge disagreed.

From: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/07/trump-tax-returns-subpoena-new-york-federal-judge
A judge ruled that the president’s claim to immunity while in office was “repugnant” and said Manhattan’s district attorney could subpoena eight years of Trump’s personal and corporate tax returns... An appeals court blocked any immediate handover of the records but the escalating court battle leaves Trump with less room for manoeuvre and adds to woes...Trump’s lawyers argue the president is immune from such an investigation while in office and the US constitution requires Vance to wait until after Trump has left the White House. On Monday, the US district judge Victor Marrero in Manhattan described the immunity argument as “extraordinary” and as “an overreach of executive power [that was] repugnant to the nation’s governmental structure and constitutional values”.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 08, 2019, 02:23:31 pm
Minor nitpick... If I understand correctly, the SDNY is a federal court. So if Trump is pardoned by Pence, it wouldn't be the SDNY that would have the honor of putting him up on trial.

On the other hand, there are a variety of state-level courts (including district courts in New York) where Trump could be tried, regardless of whether he was pardoned. It just wouldn't be the SDNY.

And on that note:

Trump recently lost a lawsuit in New York to keep his tax returns private. Prosecutors were investigating Trump's (possibly illegal) campaign contributions during the 2016 elections. Trump claimed "You can't even investigate a president, much less charge him." The judge disagreed.

From: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/07/trump-tax-returns-subpoena-new-york-federal-judge
A judge ruled that the president’s claim to immunity while in office was “repugnant” and said Manhattan’s district attorney could subpoena eight years of Trump’s personal and corporate tax returns... An appeals court blocked any immediate handover of the records but the escalating court battle leaves Trump with less room for manoeuvre and adds to woes...Trump’s lawyers argue the president is immune from such an investigation while in office and the US constitution requires Vance to wait until after Trump has left the White House. On Monday, the US district judge Victor Marrero in Manhattan described the immunity argument as “extraordinary” and as “an overreach of executive power [that was] repugnant to the nation’s governmental structure and constitutional values”.

The most talked about charges talked about from SDNY were brought be federal prosecutors to a federal judge in the SDNY with regard to hush payments to his **** star lady friends there. There are a number of other state investigations ongoing and he can not be pardoned from those charges if brought.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 08, 2019, 04:42:30 pm
I'm looking forward to reading this.

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/603692/a-very-stable-genius-by-carol-leonnig-and-philip-rucker/

Rucker and Leonnig have deep and unmatched sources throughout Washington, D.C., and for the past three years have chronicled in depth the ways President Donald Trump has reinvented the presidency in his own image, shaken foreign alliances and tested American institutions.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 08, 2019, 07:11:25 pm
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-deficit-debt-cbo-data-obama-1463802?fbclid=IwAR2lkG8djsdNJTBJA46HG5jzu1Wuml6dCDRcMQ8oZZfaEzuuuAvjWKd9OZw

DONALD TRUMP PROMISED TO ELIMINATE THE DEFICIT IN 8 YEARS. SO FAR, HE HAS INCREASED IT BY 68%
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 08, 2019, 10:20:00 pm
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-deficit-debt-cbo-data-obama-1463802?fbclid=IwAR2lkG8djsdNJTBJA46HG5jzu1Wuml6dCDRcMQ8oZZfaEzuuuAvjWKd9OZw

DONALD TRUMP PROMISED TO ELIMINATE THE DEFICIT IN 8 YEARS. SO FAR, HE HAS INCREASED IT BY 68%

Was there ever any doubt?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 09, 2019, 04:58:51 am
I am sensing that true Trump fatigue is setting in with us Trump-haters (yes, I have TDS) but let's not lose sight of his continuing missteps and misdeeds even as impeachment gains momentum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gek56BzypQ

As such, Pat Robertson has come out strong against him for abandoning the Kurds ("and Christians") in Syria.  What this means is not yet known.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 09, 2019, 12:17:10 pm
Yes and if you look at the news today you see the results of Trumps pulling the troops. Turkey has already begun attacking the Kurds. Attaboy Donny!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on October 09, 2019, 12:39:18 pm
DONALD TRUMP PROMISED TO ELIMINATE THE DEFICIT IN 8 YEARS. SO FAR, HE HAS INCREASED IT BY 68%

Yes, but on the bright side, billionaires are now paying a lower tax rate than working people.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/06/opinion/income-tax-rate-wealthy.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 09, 2019, 02:26:57 pm
Just when I thought I couldn't hate Trump any more strongly, it is revealed he knew exactly what Turkey was planning to do in Syria against the Kurds and gave Erdogan the nod to go ahead and do it. Women and children running for their lives. US allies being killed and the pentagon won't comment as it seems they were blind sided by Trumps latest. I took a look over at the gongshow and I see the regular conservitards (BC etc) are still in full support. Than gawd we have this site.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 09, 2019, 05:00:35 pm
Let's put our mutual revulsion for #45 aside for this question:

How can a NATO country bomb civilians ?  Is that not a war crime ?  Isn't that unprecedented ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 09, 2019, 05:09:04 pm
Let's put our mutual revulsion for #45 aside for this question:

How can a NATO country bomb civilians ?  Is that not a war crime ?  Isn't that unprecedented ?

You don't think the USA has bombed civilians in its latest wars?   There have been plenty of examples. 

Canada was involved in torturing prisoners.  No one was charged with war crimes.

War crimes are for the losers....   not the big powerful countries who are on the "right side".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on October 09, 2019, 05:10:49 pm
How can a NATO country bomb civilians ?  Is that not a war crime ?  Isn't that unprecedented ?

I remember bombs falling on Baghdad.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 09, 2019, 05:18:24 pm
I took a look over at the gongshow and I see the regular conservitards (BC etc) are still in full support. Than gawd we have this site.
Authoritarians will support absolutely anything. That's the nature of authoritarianism.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 09, 2019, 05:46:35 pm
I remember bombs falling on Baghdad.

I remember that fairly well myself since I was in Baghdad at the time. One thing that was rather ironic given the current situation is that we were advised the bombing would be delayed two weeks while attempts to negotiate would continue. In fact the delay was caused because the US aircraft carriers had to reposition to the Red Sea after Turkey denied US fighter aircraft access to their airspace.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 09, 2019, 06:37:59 pm
You don't think the USA has bombed civilians in its latest wars?   There have been plenty of examples. 

Canada was involved in torturing prisoners.  No one was charged with war crimes.

War crimes are for the losers....   not the big powerful countries who are on the "right side".

I feel like the targets mentioned today were non-military.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 09, 2019, 06:38:26 pm
I remember bombs falling on Baghdad.

Military targets.  The US doesn't target civilians.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 09, 2019, 06:40:05 pm
I feel like the targets mentioned today were non-military.

What little i read today said turkey targeted Kurdish militia.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 09, 2019, 08:00:32 pm
What little i read today said turkey targeted Kurdish militia.

I read a cotton processing plant and civilians but they made it sound like indiscriminate bombing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on October 10, 2019, 12:12:37 pm
Military targets.  The US doesn't target civilians.

3 October 2015, Kunduz Trauma Centre operated by Médecins Sans Frontières, 42 killed, 30 injured
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 10, 2019, 12:38:11 pm
3 October 2015, Kunduz Trauma Centre operated by Médecins Sans Frontières, 42 killed, 30 injured

And lets not forget Iran Air flight 655-290 killed.
Amiriyah shelter bombing, Amiriyah Iraq-408 killed.

There are others.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 10, 2019, 12:39:54 pm
I said targeted.  Did they target civilians?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 10, 2019, 12:51:17 pm
I said targeted.  Did they target civilians?

I think when you shoot down an Airbus 300 that is climbing out on what was a daily scheduled flight and it's transponder was transmitting on code III, which is purely civilian, then it's a little tough to say you didn't target civilians.

The United States was responsible for the decision to target the Amiriyah shelter. By its own admission, the U.S. Department of Defense "knew the Ameriyya facility had been used as a civil-defense shelter during the Iran–Iraq War".[3] Changes in the protected status of such a facility require warning, and Human Rights Watch notes that, "The United States' failure to give such a warning before proceeding with the disastrous attack on the Ameriyya shelter was a serious violation of the laws of war".[3]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 10, 2019, 01:33:51 pm
Military targets.  The US doesn't target civilians.

Maybe not intentionally but they certainly kill their share.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 10, 2019, 02:43:38 pm
Giuliani and Trump must be a little worried today after two crooks who had lunch with Rudy at Trump Tower just before heading to Dulles airport with one way tickets to Germany were arrested. Maybe they shouldn't have bothered with lunch and took an earlier flight.

Since Donald Trump kicked off his bid for the presidency in 2015, his personal lawyer and former campaign chairman have gone to prison, his former assistant campaign manager has pleaded guilty to conspiracy against the United States, and both his national security adviser and a campaign policy adviser have pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI. (His longtime pal Roger Stone was also charged with witness tampering and making false statements in connection with the Mueller probe, and has pleaded not guilty.) You might say that, protestations to the contrary, he doesn’t surround himself with “the best” people. So, the odds that the guys Rudy Giuliani worked with to dig up dirt on Joe Biden had sterling reputations were pretty low. And—surprise!—on Wednesday, they were arrested.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/10/rudy-giuliani-lev-parnas-igor-fruman
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 10, 2019, 05:35:49 pm
So, drifting away from the current aggression by Turkey to shade the American acts as intentional ... Just strikes me that the end result would be to diminish what Turkey is doing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 10, 2019, 05:51:49 pm
So, drifting away from the current aggression by Turkey to shade the American acts as intentional ... Just strikes me that the end result would be to diminish what Turkey is doing.

I think it's blatantly obvious that what both sides are doing are intentional.Trump gave Erdogan the nod and now the bombs are dropping.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 10, 2019, 07:40:25 pm
I think it's blatantly obvious that what both sides are doing are intentional.Trump gave Erdogan the nod and now the bombs are dropping.

Ok...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 11, 2019, 01:32:48 pm
Kudos to Marie Yovanovitch for having the strength to show up and testify in front of house committees even after having been told by her boss not to. Apparently she may have things to say that Trump and co. would prefer remained covered up.

Marie Yovanovitch, the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, told three House committees in a closed deposition that President Trump pressured the State Department to remove her from her post, according to prepared remarks reported by multiple outlets.

https://www.npr.org/2019/10/11/769049841/fired-u-s-ukraine-ambassador-arrives-on-capitol-hill-to-testify-in-impeachment-p
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 11, 2019, 02:10:32 pm
The volume of things going against Trump seems to be increasing.

Top Advisor to Pompeo quits
Several court rulings against Trump
Testimony says that State Dept was 'hollowed out'

Not surprising to most of us, but this stuff has clearly been going on behind closed doors for years now so there will be more and more of this.  Government will slow down to a crawl while this gets sorted out.

Russia's best ally has been successful in his mission.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 11, 2019, 02:26:59 pm
Trump is losing battles on a lot of legal fronts today, namely his limits as to immigrants rights, money for his wall, and his attempts to keep his tax returns secret. The tweets should be numerous. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 11, 2019, 06:38:42 pm
You can't fight everyone...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 12, 2019, 10:03:04 pm
Good for Shepard Smith for finally bailing from faux news. He must have been brow beaten for calling out trump's endless bs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 13, 2019, 03:26:13 pm
It may be a harsh thing to say but I am disgusted enough to go ahead and say it. Would it not be appropriately ironic if, instead of impeaching Trump and get him out of office,  an ISIS member who was now able to travel since Donny has betrayed the Kurds who were able to contain the terrorists, and proceed to the White House from Syria and simply blow the **** away. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 14, 2019, 01:24:46 pm
So the atrocities have begun as expected in Syria in the wake of Trump's pullout.

Kurdish journalists report that a Kurdish politician, a 35-year old woman, was **** & stoned to death by advancing Turkish forces. What’s happening in Syria is due to Trump taking an unstaffed call with Erdogan & caving to his Turkish business allies. https://twitter.com/just_whatever/status/1183230450879234048 …

https://news.yahoo.com/1-u-says-reports-killing-131321943.html

Oh well, I guess donny can now add murderous dictator Al-Assad to his buddy list.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 14, 2019, 01:34:15 pm
It may be a harsh thing to say but I am disgusted enough to go ahead and say it. Would it not be appropriately ironic if, instead of impeaching Trump and get him out of office,  an ISIS member who was now able to travel since Donny has betrayed the Kurds who were able to contain the terrorists, and proceed to the White House from Syria and simply blow the **** away.

Interesting you find this "dumb". I myself find support for trump to be well beyond dumb. Oh and btw, there are current reports that ~750 ISIS fighters have escaped and are on the run as the Kurds are forced to run for cover.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 15, 2019, 06:39:06 pm
I can't believe Trump would allow Turkey to invade over some hotels.  More likely, to me, is that he still owes Putin favours... bring our boys home etc.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 16, 2019, 12:12:47 am
Trump pulls troops from Syria creating an obvious situation for a war to break out. Now he is going to send poopy pants Pence to go there to seek a ceasefire. Add Pompeo into the scenario and you've got curly, larry and moe.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 16, 2019, 01:23:55 pm
Just listened to Trump taking questions alongside the Italian president who is visiting. And once again, how can you tell Trump is lying?...his lips are moving. Especially when the the issue of the Kurds/Turkey/Syria came up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 16, 2019, 07:44:22 pm
So it's going to be a gradual decline... continuing until the election.  He can't be enjoying this.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 16, 2019, 08:13:32 pm
So it's going to be a gradual decline... continuing until the election.  He can't be enjoying this.

I guess the reported rage he flew into today that caused Pelosi etal to walk out of a WH meeting is an indication of just how much he is not "enjoying" this. Especially after his own party voted heavily against what he has done in the mid east.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 17, 2019, 01:08:00 pm
Now that Trump's dumb ass decision in Syria has resulted in the war we all knew was inevitable there, he has sent Pence to Turkey to try and frame a 120 hour ceasefire that has been agreed to so the Kurds can be relocated, as some sort of "success". Trump completely F'ed the place up in the first place and now he is trying to wipe the blood from his hands. I'm sure certain folks over "yonder" will buy this latest BS, but I certainly don't.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 17, 2019, 03:59:21 pm
Losing support of house Republicans is significant.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 17, 2019, 04:20:54 pm
Losing support of house Republicans is significant.

I expect Mulvaney will be getting a noisy phone call after his press briefing today. "Quid pro so"?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 17, 2019, 07:54:12 pm
I expect Mulvaney will be getting a noisy phone call after his press briefing today. "Quid pro so"?

What in the actual F*** is going on over there ?

It seems that we can't imagine anything else that they people could do to keep Trumpin' and keep the red states happy... but something comes up...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: queenmandy85 on October 18, 2019, 01:19:52 pm
The opposition has their issue -the retreat from northern Syria is a true Benghazi. The Democrats have their campaign slogan, "Lock him up."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 18, 2019, 01:28:09 pm
The opposition has their issue -the retreat from northern Syria is a true Bengazi. The Democrats have their campaign slogan, "Lock him up."

And he could very well find himself locked up once the protection of his current office is removed.
Obstruction of justice comes to mind right off the top.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 18, 2019, 02:11:11 pm
I see now the next G7 meeting will be held at Trumps National Doral I mean Immoral.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 18, 2019, 03:13:58 pm
Trump denies any quid pro quos, then his right hand man Mulvaney clearly states there was, then Trump tries to once again deny, then Mulvaney tries to walk back what he stated. Just to make it even sleazier, the party is now selling "Quid Pro Quos" T shirts. I can smell the swamp clear across the border.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 18, 2019, 05:32:05 pm
Trump denies any quid pro quos, then his right hand man Mulvaney clearly states there was, then Trump tries to once again deny, then Mulvaney tries to walk back what he stated. Just to make it even sleazier, the party is now selling "Quid Pro Quos" T shirts. I can smell the swamp clear across the border.

I correct myself: the T shirts say "Get Over It" not quid pro quos.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 18, 2019, 09:22:24 pm
I see now the next G7 meeting will be held at Trumps National Doral I mean Immoral.
And they probably haven't even gotten rid of the bed bugs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 18, 2019, 09:31:37 pm
And they probably haven't even gotten rid of the bed bugs.

I'm sure it could use a good cleaning. And btw, who is rolfs? :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 18, 2019, 10:57:41 pm
He had to settle out of court on lawsuits after guests were swarmed and bitten.

And three guesses...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 18, 2019, 11:10:56 pm
He had to settle out of court on lawsuits after guests were swarmed and bitten.

And three guesses...

Well Trudeau for one is known as a bit of an outdoorsman. Perhaps he should roll up his sleeping bag.
After that I am scratching my head.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on October 19, 2019, 01:13:18 pm
Well Trudeau for one is known as a bit of an outdoorsman. Perhaps he should roll up his sleeping bag.
After that I am scratching my head.

Perhaps he and the other 5 leaders should decline the invitation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 19, 2019, 01:49:07 pm
Perhaps he and the other 5 leaders should decline the invitation.

Good idea. They just rename it the G6 and find an appropriate venue. Let Trump go play golf on his own, I hear he cheats at that too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 19, 2019, 11:05:27 pm
I see now the plans have changed as to using Doral for the G7. Someone must have sat with Trump and slowly explained the emoluments clause. I suspect that took awhile.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 21, 2019, 01:48:43 pm
Trump has now concluded that the emoluments clause is "phony, if you're rich". I wonder what other sections of the constitution he thinks should be allowed to be ignored by the wealthy. And I wonder if his refusal to provide his tax returns is due to a fear that those numbers might exclude him qualifying for such arrogance. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 22, 2019, 02:37:48 pm
Trump has now tried to call the process toward his impeachment "a lynching". The idiot obviously has never bothered to study what the word actually means. Lindsay Graham is just as **** retarded. I expect Blacks in the US who do know what the word means will recoil, as they should.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on October 22, 2019, 03:26:47 pm
Trump has now tried to call the process toward his impeachment "a lynching". The idiot obviously has never bothered to study what the word actually means. Lindsay Graham is just as **** retarded. I expect Blacks in the US who do know what the word means will recoil, as they should.

Troll is gonna Troll. Now the debate is about the term Lynching instead of his illegal acts. He just keeps upping the ante.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 22, 2019, 03:32:03 pm
Troll is gonna Troll. Now the debate is about the term Lynching instead of his illegal acts. He just keeps upping the ante.

He keeps trying to up the ante because he is pooping in his pants at how dumb he will look when they remove him from office.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 22, 2019, 04:10:09 pm
He keeps trying to up the ante because he is pooping in his pants at how dumb he will look when they remove him from office.

He keeps trying to be outrageous, while he loses supporters 1 by 1 all around him. McConnell is pushing him on Syria, his diplomats are testifying against him... and although the bulk of Republicans are being quiet, nobody is rallying to him either
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 22, 2019, 04:20:39 pm
He keeps trying to be outrageous, while he loses supporters 1 by 1 all around him. McConnell is pushing him on Syria, his diplomats are testifying against him... and although the bulk of Republicans are being quiet, nobody is rallying to him either

I've been hearing the Repubs., even though they don't support him, are keeping their mouths shut lest they lose the support of the Trumptards in their riding's. I find that worrying. At some point morals should trump Trump. Apparently not so much in the US these days.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 22, 2019, 04:50:53 pm
Wadaya mean, lynching is an old American tradition.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 22, 2019, 04:54:02 pm
Wadaya mean, lynching is an old American tradition.

So what's he bitching about?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 22, 2019, 10:31:45 pm
I would be more than happy to demonstrate what the term "lynching" consists of to donald trump. To the fullest extent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 23, 2019, 12:49:35 pm
Erogan, Putin, and also ISIS must all be happy with Trump's latest move in the ME. It seems he'll do anything, no matter how stupid, to try and deflect the discussion away from impeachment, regardless of the blood it leaves on his hands.

Donald Trump has announced that the US will lift sanctions on Turkey, taking credit for a ceasefire deal that should end Ankara’s attack on Kurdish-led forces – at the price of ending the Kurds’ dream of local autonomy.

The US president, who has come under withering criticism for abruptly withdrawing US troops – and paving the way for a deadly Turkish offensive against the Kurds – said on Wednesday that a “small number” of US troops would remain in Syria’s oilfields.

Wednesday’s announcement came as Russian troops expanded their presence across north-eastern Syria, the result of an agreement between Ankara and Moscow.

Just a week ago, Trump announced a series of financial punishments on Ankara – including the reimposition of 50% tariffs on Turkish steel – after Turkey launched its attack on Kurdish-led forces in north-eastern Syria.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/23/donald-trump-syria-ceasefire-permanent-lifts-sanctions-turkey

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 23, 2019, 03:08:01 pm
I post this on the off chance Trump might visit this site and he can learn what lynching actually looks like.


https://www.gettyimages.ca/detail/news-photo/onlookers-watching-the-corps-of-two-black-man-photograph-news-photo/82091555
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 23, 2019, 09:20:36 pm
Hey anybody hear the latest Trump **** up? He's going to build a border wall in Colorado. Apparently his knowledge of US geography is as abysmal as all else. What a hoot. I wonder how BC over at redneckville will try to obfuscate around that one. Ah I can't quit giggling.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 23, 2019, 09:25:15 pm
Have a look at this article and look at how the map has been altered. Can you say "sharpie" ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 24, 2019, 12:10:48 pm
The Republicans are getting ever more desperate to try and protect the clown they have as a leader, most recently barging into closed door meetings to try and interrupt depositions that get Trump ever closer to impeachment. Sorry boys, that ain't gonna work.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 25, 2019, 04:09:09 pm
Trump speaks at a historically Black college in SC and once again tries to flog his retarded concept that impeachment proceedings against him are tantamount to lynchings. How much more crass can this **** be I wonder!

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/25/trump-speaks-at-benedict-college-after-calling-impeachment-probe-a-lynching.html

President Donald Trump on Friday addresses Benedict College, a historically black college in South Carolina, three days after he posted a tweet comparing the House Democrats’ impeachment probe to “a lynching.”

“So some day, if a Democrat becomes President and the Republicans win the House, even by a tiny margin, they can impeach the President, all without due process of fairness or any legal rights,” he tweeted. “All Republicans must remember what they are witnessing here - a lynching. But we will WIN!”
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 25, 2019, 04:23:57 pm
I don't really blame people for slip-ups...   we're all human and it happens to everyone.  It's really petty to do so.  I'm sure there is already a video circulating of Obama mixing up states. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 25, 2019, 04:31:06 pm
I don't really blame people for slip-ups...   we're all human and it happens to everyone.  It's really petty to do so.  I'm sure there is already a video circulating of Obama mixing up states.

I will assume that comment was made tongue in cheek.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 25, 2019, 11:58:47 pm
I found it refreshing to listen to Obama speaking/eulogizing at the memorial for Elijah Cummings. 
It was nice if for no other reason to hark back when there was a POTUS who could complete a sentence and that was sensible/sensitive.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 27, 2019, 12:12:54 am
If in fact the world's most wanted man Al Baghdadi has in fact been taken out by a US raid, it will be interesting to watch Trumpdy Dumbty squirm around trying to take credit for it after he had in fact order the troops out of the area.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 27, 2019, 12:23:04 pm
Trump once again demonstrates what a crude lowlife A hole he is: after watching the video of the raid that killed Al Baghdadi you could see the froth forming at the froth forming at the corners of his mouth as he described what he saw as "a movie" and described various graphic details. Just what the kids needed to hear from their "leader". Why not something a little more befitting of the office he holds to simply say our troops have been successful in eliminating the terrorist leader of ISIS. And leave it at that.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 27, 2019, 02:22:29 pm
Trump now claims he thinks the video of Baghdadi killing himself and his three children should be made public. Maybe he will ask schools to give kids the afternoon off to make sure they can watch it too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 28, 2019, 02:45:15 pm
It seems Trump made the right choice not to throw out the opening pitch at the World Series game Sunday. The boos and chants of "lock him up" were loud enough just with him being in the building. Now will he blame that on the "deep state" or the "fake news", or invent some other fake excuse?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 28, 2019, 04:20:57 pm
I guess Trump is too dumb to not comprehend that his made up comments as to what happened during the raid leading up to the death of Al Baghdadi could in fact incite further violence from remaining iSIS members. Oh yeah I forgot, he thinks they are non-existent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 31, 2019, 02:06:30 pm
Can hardly wait for the tweet storm that should flow from Trump now that the impeachment inquiry has been green-lighted.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 01, 2019, 02:27:55 pm
American taxpayers should be happy Trump is moving to Florida. Think of the money they will save not having to constantly gas up Air Force One to fly him to his golf course. New Yorker's seem to be happy to be rid of him and Floridian's, well, they can always just go to the beach and ignore his nonsense.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 01, 2019, 03:06:12 pm
Can't wait for Trumps "fireside chat" were he will read the transcript of his Ukraine call. That's certainly worth topping up the popcorn supply in anticipation of. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 02, 2019, 05:14:49 pm
I applaud Nats pitcher Sean Doolittle's decision to turn down the invite to the WH in part because of how Trump once publicly mocked a reporter who suffers from autism. He apparently has a family member who suffers the same affliction. Other team members are considering following suit, so it looks Trump is not only getting boos from the fans.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 03, 2019, 09:19:42 am
...and... as this impeachment drags on... Trump's defenses become familiar, support for impeachment flags, and democracy is further undone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

I feel that once the Overton Window breaks, REAL leftism (not the over-emphasized politics of liberation that passes for it) will return.  Watching the SchoolOfLife summary of Marxism, his ideas seem less than radical in light of Drumpf
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on November 05, 2019, 04:35:36 pm
Sondland amends testimony: clear quid pro quo.

I guess the guy who bought an ambassadorship for $1 million doesn't want to go to jail for Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 05, 2019, 09:01:55 pm
apparently the Ruskies failed to deliver in Kentucky today. Trump must be PO'ed bigly.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 06, 2019, 12:46:38 am
Trump's spiritual adviser... and personal pastor - Paula White, now an actual White House staffer... and chair of the evangelical advisory board in the Trump Admin! (https://twitter.com/i/videos/1191600926731030528)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 06, 2019, 07:12:21 am
apparently the Ruskies failed to deliver in Kentucky today. Trump must be PO'ed bigly.

Can't wait to see the tweets...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 06, 2019, 11:40:25 am
Trump's spiritual adviser... and personal pastor - Paula White, now an actual White House staffer... and chair of the evangelical advisory board in the Trump Admin! (https://twitter.com/i/videos/1191600926731030528)

That's some scary shyte. I wonder if after impeachment she'll go back to swinging around a brass pole.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 06, 2019, 12:27:24 pm
Republicans just lost Kentucky governorship and Virginia State legislature. Donald's not happy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 06, 2019, 12:29:35 pm
And yet the numbers on Trump impeachment and approval aren't getting worse...  ???
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 06, 2019, 12:35:24 pm
Maybe those numbers might start to change when testimony's begin as the official inquiry begins next week. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 06, 2019, 12:47:21 pm
That's some scary shyte. I wonder if after impeachment she'll go back to swinging around a brass pole.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIo7qsUXUAAdVlh?format=png)

WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY LOOK HOW NORMAL THEY ARE PRAISE BE !
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 06, 2019, 01:12:05 pm
I don't think I've ever seen botox/collagen fillers that didn't make the person look like a burn victim who has gone off the deep end.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 06, 2019, 03:24:18 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIo7qsUXUAAdVlh?format=png)

WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY LOOK HOW NORMAL THEY ARE PRAISE BE !

Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammo.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 07, 2019, 12:31:02 pm
Now here's a good one: Lindsay Graham, who has long been a Trump butt kisser now continues to try and defend his boss claiming Trump is "too inept" to have committed a quid pro quo. Actually he could be right for once.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 09, 2019, 03:27:21 pm
Well I see they were able to hustle together enough honky's down in Tuscaloosa to give Trump a warm reception so I guess he can stop sucking his thumb over the boos and "lock him up" reception he received in his own home town. Enjoy the game Donny, oh but don't forget there's still that Bolton thing coming up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 09, 2019, 10:15:15 pm
So, I unexpectedly had to drive 2 hours tonight at night with Joan and Easy asleep in the car.

My go-to fuel is Monster Sugar-Free energy drink but even that made me wonder if it would be enough... I decided to turn on CNN but they had a piece on Glen Campbell.... zzzzz....

Over to MSNBC then and Rachel Maddow.  Never heard her whole show before and my God it's like heroin for anti-Trump info.  She went through the key exchanges between Fiona Hill (adminstration Ukraine expert) and the behind-door questioning from both sides - from the transcripts among other things.

I had no problem staying awake.

Revelations:

- Looks like the Republicans' game plan is to unveil the "Ukraine was really behind the election hack not Russia" conspiracy theory as behind all of this.
- Fiona Hill actually went after her questioner and kind of quieted him when he started asking this and she pointedly stated that the Russians are behind that theory too
- She was part of the whole set of conversations that resulted in Bolton calling the Ukraine exchange the Trump admin's "drug deal"
- Trump may be getting ready to throw Guliani, Bolton, and Sondland under the bus:
https://news.yahoo.com/house-republicans-appear-throwing-giuliani-055159905.html

None of this will work but Trump will still be allowed to stay by the senate.
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 09, 2019, 10:37:45 pm
So, I unexpectedly had to drive 2 hours tonight at night with Joan and Easy asleep in the car.

My go-to fuel is Monster Sugar-Free energy drink but even that made me wonder if it would be enough... I decided to turn on CNN but they had a piece on Glen Campbell.... zzzzz....

Over to MSNBC then and Rachel Maddow.  Never heard her whole show before and my God it's like heroin for anti-Trump info.  She went through the key exchanges between Fiona Hill (adminstration Ukraine expert) and the behind-door questioning from both sides - from the transcripts among other things.

I had no problem staying awake.

Revelations:

- Looks like the Republicans' game plan is to unveil the "Ukraine was really behind the election hack not Russia" conspiracy theory as behind all of this.
- Fiona Hill actually went after her questioner and kind of quieted him when he started asking this and she pointedly stated that the Russians are behind that theory too
- She was part of the whole set of conversations that resulted in Bolton calling the Ukraine exchange the Trump admin's "drug deal"
- Trump may be getting ready to throw Guliani, Bolton, and Sondland under the bus:
https://news.yahoo.com/house-republicans-appear-throwing-giuliani-055159905.html

None of this will work but Trump will still be allowed to stay by the senate.

I followed a similar path this evening, both opting out of Glenn Campbell and into Rachel Maddow. (Only I wasn't driving so I was sipping a cold beer).
I also listened to her a couple of night ago as she read a number of pages from the new book "Anonymous". One could argue that remaining anonymous detracts from the validity of the authors comments, but I'm waiting to hear more and I have a gut feeling the reason Trump is so freaked is because he knows it paints a realistic picture of the current WH.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 09, 2019, 10:55:51 pm
I would like to see a poll of members here to see who thinks Trump will be impeached...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 09, 2019, 11:37:31 pm
I would like to see a poll of members here to see who thinks Trump will be impeached...

Just impeached or convicted as well? I for one think he will be impeached.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 12, 2019, 01:26:21 pm
Well I have my alarm clock set for early Wednesday so I can get the coffee on and see/hear what the first two witnesses have to say regarding the impeachment inquiry. Bill Taylor and George Kent are the first two up and I especially want to hear from Taylor. He seems to be regarded as a straight shooter and certainly has a strong connection to the Ukraine. Then of course on Friday we hear from Yovanovitch. The tweet storms should be "interesting" as well. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 13, 2019, 03:07:12 pm
OK enough of the impeachment stuff for today. I want to hear about Trumps meeting today with Erdogan and how many Kurds he/they have manged to kill of late.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 13, 2019, 09:31:59 pm
I dunno.... not much magic in the hearings today.  The troglodites won't be swayed but I guess impeachment has to happen.  Hopefully quickly...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 14, 2019, 05:00:57 pm
Trump now seems to wish to thumb his nose at his abuses of the emoluments clause by listing his Int. Hotel for sale and focusing his sales pitch toward foreighn government personnel who have previously stayed there. Who knows, maybe he could get away with shooting someone on fifth avenue.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 14, 2019, 08:55:39 pm
So Trump on his way to Louisiana to address his fellow honkies down there posts a tweet about the latest school shooting:


"Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

We continue to monitor the terrible events at Saugus High School in Santa Clarita, California through our ongoing communications with Local, State, and Federal Authorities...."

and then in under an hour he is pledging his full support for the 2nd amendment. If you don't understand that to be about as hypocritical as you can get, then I suggest you **** off to MLW.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 15, 2019, 11:23:33 am
Trump launches a tweet storm against Yavonovitch in real time while she is giving testimony. If that's not witness intimidation I don't know what would be. I've heard that is against the law in the US. Maybe Trump will be able to bunk in with his buddy Roger Stone while they serve their sentences.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 16, 2019, 03:11:27 pm
Yet another aide breaks rank and confirms what they know about what happened between Trump and the pressure he put on Ukraine. Old Donny must be squirming a little more each day as this inquiry carries on. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 16, 2019, 09:04:29 pm
Ever wonder why Trump slaps that colored powder on his face every day?
He was simply getting prepared for the inevitable.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7502211/Impeach-PEACH-Twitter-explodes-memes-ImpeachTheMF-trends-Donald-Trump-inquiry.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 17, 2019, 10:48:37 am
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/17/politics/john-bel-edwards-louisiana-governor-republicans-election/index.html

Deep Red Louisiana goes Democrat.

Donny fakes a heart attack ?  Mysterious medical visit... don't mix speed and Russian Viagara says Dr...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 17, 2019, 02:23:33 pm
Oops, there goes Louisiana. Maybe visits from Trump aren't all the beneficial if you're a GOP running for GOV.

 The latest black eye came on Saturday, when Trump's favored candidate in Louisiana, multimillionaire businessman Eddie Rispone, went down to defeat. The president went all-in, visiting the state three times, most recently on Thursday. Earlier this month, Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin lost reelection after a similar presidential effort on his behalf. Of the candidates Trump backed, only Tate Reeves in Mississippi won.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/17/trump-suffers-louisiana-loss-071300
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 17, 2019, 02:24:37 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/17/politics/john-bel-edwards-louisiana-governor-republicans-election/index.html

Deep Red Louisiana goes Democrat.

Donny fakes a heart attack ?  Mysterious medical visit... don't mix speed and Russian Viagara says Dr...

Louisiana is still “deep red”.  Their new governor, despite being a Democrat, is a bible thumping anti-choice politician.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 17, 2019, 03:23:22 pm
Trump's latest visit to Walter Reed for a physical seemed not to follow protocol. Maybe those damn "bone spurs" were acting up again. Can they keep you out of impeachment like they can keep you out of Viet Nam?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 18, 2019, 11:46:17 am
Louisiana is still “deep red”.  Their new governor, despite being a Democrat, is a bible thumping anti-choice politician.
John Bel Edwards may be anti-choice, but he also has pushed for gay rights, medicaid expansion, and increases in minimum wages. He's not a 'far left' politician by any stretch of the imagination, but on the whole I'd say he falls on the left side of the political spectrum.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 18, 2019, 05:06:56 pm
Trump continues to kiss Fat Kim's ass while Kim gives him the finger, and suggests Biden should be beaten to death with a stick. It must be getting downright embarrassing to be an American these days.

On Sunday, President Donald Trump took a quick Twitter break from trying to intimidate those who’ve testified during the impeachment inquiry to once again say friendly things to his favorite pen pal, North Korean tyrant Kim Jong-un. Only this time, it was in response to Kim calling for the death of Joe Biden.

The president spotted a tweet from an anchor of the lesser-known Trump propaganda “news” network, One America News, who linked to an article that quoted Kim’s own mouthpiece, North Korean’s state news agency KCNA. The tweet called Joe Biden a “rabid dog” and said he should be “beaten to death with a stick.” But Trump ignored the threat and cheerily replied, “See you soon!”

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-kim-jong-un-biden-beaten-to-death-with-a-stick-913750/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 18, 2019, 05:15:53 pm
Right... like the China file there's no "see you soon" and no... anything...

I wouldn't read this into Trump wanting Biden dead, but just as an extremely unconventional and actually vulgar way for leaders to communicate publicly.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 19, 2019, 01:50:23 pm
Hearing from the "Junior" version of a creepy little scumbag who also goes by the name Donald Trump lash out to criticize a decorated soldier who wears a purple heart on his chest and shrapnel in his legs from his service in Iraq, made me want to throw up. I'd like to get him on a battlefield, or maybe just in a boxing ring.

 He called Vindman:
 a 'low level partisan bureaucrat'
He added later: “You only get total absolution if you are a leftist veteran. Not a veteran, just a leftist. If you’re on their side, you can do no wrong.”

Fox News host Brian Kilmeade cut in, reminding Trump Jr.: “But we don’t know if he’s a leftist."

“Oh yeah, of course. Sure," Trump Jr. responded.

Of course it was FOX Faux news, so what else to expect I guess.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 20, 2019, 12:47:20 pm
Trump digs out his Sharpie yet again to continue his buffoonery by scribbling, and then shouting, some notes on the WH lawn in response to Sondland's current/ongoing testimony. The fact he actually misquoted Sondland a number of times is of course to be expected. Trump is not happy with what he is hearing, especially that gal darn "quidy pro quoy" thingy again. I'm sure he'll be able to find a sports venue down south somewhere where he can show up at a game and not be booed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on November 20, 2019, 01:16:27 pm
Sondland just wrecked the Republicans today. Even Ken Starr said the GOP needs to take that walk to the Whitehouse like the did for Nixon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 20, 2019, 03:01:39 pm
Sondland just wrecked the Republicans today. Even Ken Starr said the GOP needs to take that walk to the Whitehouse like the did for Nixon.

Hmmmm.... I don't think so.  They are abject liars, don't forget.  So they can still create another level of lie...

So far it's.... Sondland didn't actually HEAR anything from Trump so he was just wrong, or didn't understand or maybe he heard it from Rudy G who hasn't flipped yet, and anyway the funds were being held because they were still investigating the Ukraine PM.

Of course all of these things will fall apart one by one, but by that time the corrupt American public will have been bored to death so will not see a need to impeach.  Rudy might still go to jail though.

Or I could be wrong too - hey I'm not trying to predict with certainty here
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 20, 2019, 03:32:20 pm
Trump digs out his Sharpie yet again to continue his buffoonery by scribbling, and then shouting, some notes on the WH lawn in response to Sondland's current/ongoing testimony.
Here's a reference that shows an actual image of the notes.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trumps-ukraine-talking-points-photo-sharpie-2019-11

Its so weird... Trump is often quite incoherent: messing up words, failing to actually put together complete sentences, etc. You would figure that it was partly a result of speaking "off the cuff", but here he has actually taken the time to actually write out stuff before hand, and he still sounds like a buffoon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 20, 2019, 04:22:02 pm
Here's a reference that shows an actual image of the notes.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trumps-ukraine-talking-points-photo-sharpie-2019-11

Its so weird... Trump is often quite incoherent: messing up words, failing to actually put together complete sentences, etc. You would figure that it was partly a result of speaking "off the cuff", but here he has actually taken the time to actually write out stuff before hand, and he still sounds like a buffoon.

I guess we should conclude that he who walks like a buffoon, talks like a buffoon, scribbles Sharpie notes like a buffoon must, ergo.......
Seriously though I have been wondering for some time now if he is not perhaps suffering some form of early onset dementia or some other similar malady that keeps the synapse's from firing properly. The surprise visit to Walter Reed Hospital just recently got me wondering more about that. Or is it simply that all this impeachment chatter pointed at him has fired up his narcissistic anger to a point of in-coherency. Stay tuned.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 22, 2019, 01:45:56 pm
Hey just a reminder of what could be an interesting documentary coming up: "All The Presidents Lies" CNN this Sunday, 9pm eastern. With the multitude of material available for such an expose, I'll be interested to see how they prioritize. I wonder if the far righter s over at "the swamp" will be tuning in. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 22, 2019, 10:49:46 pm
Oops, now it turns out another of Trump's right hand men is reported to have also held meetings with Ukraine officials to dig up dirt on Biden.
The plot sickens:

 Lev Parnas, the Soviet-born businessman whose involvement in helping the president's personal attorney seek out kompromat on Joe Biden in Ukraine is at the center of an impeachment inquiry, is reportedly prepared to testify to Congress about Rep. Devin Nunes meeting with a Ukrainian official as part of the same dirt-digging mission.

Nunes, the top ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, has been a staunch defender of President Trump throughout impeachment hearings.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/lev-parnas-ready-to-testify-about-devin-nunes-role-in-trumps-ukraine-dirt-digging-mission-cnn
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 22, 2019, 11:23:10 pm
I wonder if tomorrow mid morning, an aide walked into the Oval Office and found Trump slumped face first into his half eaten stack of burgers and half drunk dozen Cokes (RIP Donald) how long would it take his replacement (forget Pence) to bring this level of government back on track and actually get something accomplished beyond trying to deflect the latest scandal. One item I can imagine being high on the list would be shutting down the "love affairs" with such people as Fat Kim, Putin, MBS, Duterte, etc. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 23, 2019, 06:20:29 am
CNN is saying one of Rudy's gangsters told that Nunes was in the loop !  He's saying he's going to sue CNN.

And I noticed some clips online of FOX saying absolute falsehoods like "Sondland exonerates Trump".  FOX and CNN are now ideological vessels.   The last time the press was like this there was political violence.  Thanks Putin.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 23, 2019, 11:44:45 am
It absolutely boggles my mind that a POTUS can illegally drop bombs on other countries while murdering countless human beings with literally no legal consequences, but when they threaten to blackmail a foreign leader with foreign aid money or lie about having oral sex with an intern they can get forcefully removed from office and thrown in jail or at the very least bring an entire presidency to its knees.

Today I give a middle finger to Donald J Trump but also remember the millions that have been killed for cheap gas in my tank, Vietnamese "freedom", and other exciting ventures.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 23, 2019, 12:09:35 pm
I'm Trumped out. Wake me when he is gone or the civil war starts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 23, 2019, 12:14:25 pm
CNN is saying one of Rudy's gangsters told that Nunes was in the loop !  He's saying he's going to sue CNN.

And I noticed some clips online of FOX saying absolute falsehoods like "Sondland exonerates Trump".  FOX and CNN are now ideological vessels.   The last time the press was like this there was political violence.  Thanks Putin.

Lev Parnas' lawyer claims his client is willing to testify under oath that Rep. Devin Nunes met with a Ukranian official to dig up dirt on Bidens. There's that damn quid pro quo thing rearing it's ugly head again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 23, 2019, 02:02:23 pm
Two top navy officials, including the secretary, threaten to quit over Trump's meddling (pardoning) the criminal conviction against Edward Gallagher. Boy the walls seem to be closing in from a myriad of angles. Get that Sharpie going Donny.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 23, 2019, 04:48:28 pm
CNN is saying one of Rudy's gangsters told that Nunes was in the loop !  He's saying he's going to sue CNN.

And I noticed some clips online of FOX saying absolute falsehoods like "Sondland exonerates Trump".  FOX and CNN are now ideological vessels.   The last time the press was like this there was political violence.  Thanks Putin.
CNN is an ideological vessel like FoxNews. That sounds a lot like the Hillary is as bad as Trump lines people fell for during the election. Amazing they still work.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 23, 2019, 05:25:01 pm
CNN is an ideological vessel like FoxNews. That sounds a lot like the Hillary is as bad as Trump lines people fell for during the election. Amazing they still work.

Trump seems to have discovered this phenomena that if you repeat a story enough times (even if it's all BS) at least some people will eventually believe it. And that can get you elected in the under the US system.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 23, 2019, 08:28:32 pm
Trump seems to have discovered this phenomena that if you repeat a story enough times (even if it's all BS) at least some people will eventually believe it. And that can get you elected in the under the US system.

That was a Nazi technique - the "Big Lie".  LBJ also used it, in a nomination election in Texas against Coke Stevenson he accused his opponent of being a socialist, which was not true, and just kept repeating it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 23, 2019, 08:35:18 pm
That was a Nazi technique - the "Big Lie".  LBJ also used it, in a nomination election in Texas against Coke Stevenson he accused his opponent of being a socialist, which was not true, and just kept repeating it.

It's a scary concept, especially in this day and age of so much fake news. One need only to tune into Fox news and the flow is almost endless. Don'r forget to tune into "All The Presidents Lies" tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 24, 2019, 05:27:15 am
It's a scary concept, especially in this day and age of so much fake news. One need only to tune into Fox news and the flow is almost endless. Don'r forget to tune into "All The Presidents Lies" tomorrow.

Without objective information, you are going to go in the direction of the person who is making up your facts. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 24, 2019, 12:19:15 pm
Without objective information, you are going to go in the direction of the person who is making up your facts.

That approach seems to be very effective among Trump supporters. I suppose not everyone has the time or wants to make the effort to do any serious fact checking so they believe a wall is being built or there was no quid pro quo, etc., etc., etc.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 24, 2019, 02:43:10 pm
Trump makes another flip flop, this time on the Gallagher issue. Now he says he won't interfere with the revue of the Navy Seal. Maybe someone in the west wing got through to the dumbass that supporting a murderer/torturer who also likes to take pictures of himself with dead civilians on the battlefield, while he wears his US military uniform, is not such a good idea.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 24, 2019, 09:23:40 pm
I'll venture a guess that "All The Presidents Lies" documentary contained issues most of us have already heard, although we may have gained a little more insight, while of course it will go in one ear and out the other of the Trumpites.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 25, 2019, 01:36:29 pm
And when you though it couldn't get any weirder/sicker, Rick Perry now claims Trump was "ordained by God to be president". If that's the best we can expect from God then I'm glad I quit dropping coins into the collection plate so long ago.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 27, 2019, 05:03:56 pm
Is there still enough room under that bus to accommodate Giuliani now that he seems to be headed there? Or will he use his "insurance" to thwart that. And the band played on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 27, 2019, 08:38:27 pm
This sums things up pretty well.

https://facebook.com/fernuda.paul/videos/10157823312199923/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 28, 2019, 02:13:15 pm
Trump finally musters up enough cajones to take a trip into a war zone (Afghanistan) to hand out some turkey to the troops at Thanksgiving. I guess he needed to suck up to the military after recent events. I can imagine after what he has done with regard to abandoning the Kurds who served alongside US troops in Syria, the Afghan troops might be a tad uneasy, especially as he talks about making a "deal" with the Taliban. I know my way around the Bagram airbase pretty well. Glad I wasn't there now to have to listen to him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 28, 2019, 03:48:55 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/QugmSe2.jpg)

yes! Trump actually did tweet the shopped image of his head on an early vintage Stallone body... cause... he can!  ;D Of course, the interwebs have not been kind in response
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 29, 2019, 12:20:53 pm
Trump finally musters up enough cajones to take a trip into a war zone (Afghanistan) to hand out some turkey to the troops at Thanksgiving. I guess he needed to suck up to the military after recent events.
Why would he need to suck up to the military? His support among the troops is strong!

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2018/10/15/support-for-trump-is-fading-among-active-duty-troops-new-poll-shows/
President Donald Trump’s approval rating among active-duty military personnel has slipped over the last two years...About 44 percent of troops had a favorable view of Trump’s presidency, the poll showed, compared to 43 percent who disapproved....a gradual decline in troops’ support of Trump since he was elected in fall 2016, when a similar Military Times poll showed that 46 percent of troops approved of Trump compared to 37 percent who disapproved. That nine-point margin of support now appears gone.

Oh.

(And that poll was done last year, before the whole "Withdraw from Syria/protect the oil" policy was enacted. )
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 29, 2019, 12:37:14 pm
Why would he need to suck up to the military? His support among the troops is strong!

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2018/10/15/support-for-trump-is-fading-among-active-duty-troops-new-poll-shows/
President Donald Trump’s approval rating among active-duty military personnel has slipped over the last two years...About 44 percent of troops had a favorable view of Trump’s presidency, the poll showed, compared to 43 percent who disapproved....a gradual decline in troops’ support of Trump since he was elected in fall 2016, when a similar Military Times poll showed that 46 percent of troops approved of Trump compared to 37 percent who disapproved. That nine-point margin of support now appears gone.

Oh.

(And that poll was done last year, before the whole "Withdraw from Syria/protect the oil" policy was enacted. )

I suppose the rank and file approve because they have to. The higher ups though (secretary of the Navy for instance) not so much. Decisions such as deserting the Kurds in Syria, and now possibly the Afghans who fought alongside US troops while he tries to make "a deal" with the Taliban, have been heavily criticized.

And I'm just hearing that the Taliban have basically thumbed their nose at Trump saying that any negotiations must begin exactly where they broke down last time. I'd be getting nervous if I was an Afghan soldier.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 02, 2019, 11:48:43 am
Trump's nose is a little out of joint today as he heads for London/NATO meeting for at least a couple of reasons. Trump's good buddy Boris Johnson has essentially told Trump to keep his mouth shut regarding anything to do with Brexit, and he feels the impeachment hearings should be stopped while he is on the world stage. I hope they packed enough Cokes and burgers on AF1 to keep him occupied and not spend time hassling the crew. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 02, 2019, 01:31:48 pm
And to top it all off there is Trump's little fake orgasm he portrays on stage in front of a room full of the knuckle draggers who support him. Can he get any scummier I wonder?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/02/trump-lisa-page-fake-orgasm-fbi-russia-investigation
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 02, 2019, 07:40:29 pm
I get a kick out of Trump attacking Lisa Page for having had an affair as he fakes jacking off on a stage in front of a crowd MAGA hat wearing idiots. How many affairs has he had? And then of course he likes to tell people how he can grab women by the **** since he is a star. Am I the only guy on this site who gets pissed off about this crap?!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 02, 2019, 09:59:36 pm
No, but one of two things has happened:

1) Morality has disappeared in which case we were here to see the end of it, and it's up to us to hold our own morality and rise above
2) Morality hasn't disappeared, and there will be great shame on all of these people some day
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 02, 2019, 10:32:26 pm
No, but one of two things has happened:

1) Morality has disappeared in which case we were here to see the end of it, and it's up to us to hold our own morality and rise above
2) Morality hasn't disappeared, and there will be great shame on all of these people some day


Hopefully #2.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 02, 2019, 11:15:32 pm
No, but one of two things has happened:

1) Morality has disappeared in which case we were here to see the end of it, and it's up to us to hold our own morality and rise above
2) Morality hasn't disappeared, and there will be great shame on all of these people some day

I wonder how much #2 it will take to fix all the #1. Especially if he gets another term.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 03, 2019, 11:33:46 am
And now Trump goes to NATO, flaps his gums, pisses off their long term allies, (especially France) makes a stupid comment about trade with China, and the Dow takes a 400 point nose dive. Attaboy Donny. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 04, 2019, 10:52:33 am
Remember how Trump likes to brag about how America and the office of the presidency are now 'respected' throughout the world?

He got a reminder that that is not necessarily so.

From: https://theweek.com/speedreads/882138/watch-nato-leaders-british-princess-apparently-mock-trump-politely-palace-reception
Leaders at the NATO 70th anniversary summit in London gathered for a reception at Buckingham Palace on Tuesday....apparently discussing President Trump. No one mentions him by name, CBC's Power & Politics said, "but they seem to be discussing his lengthy impromptu press conferences from earlier in the day." And they are clearly laughing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on December 10, 2019, 11:07:58 am
Ok, here is a weird dream. I woke up early this morning, and since I had recorded the judicial hearing from yesterday I started to play that. After almost 2 hours (Goldman was giving his opening testimony) I fell asleep.

In my dream I was part of some preparatory meeting for a trial/hearing. There were a large group of us discussing the upcoming event and doing things like mock speeches, etc. My role was not a lawyer or witness, but rather I appeared to be taking notes. Then in my dream I fell asleep (I guess recursive dreaming), and when I woke up there were many more pages (2-3 dozen) in my notebook. I was puzzled, because the pages were all drawings. Most were like courtroom sketches, but more about recreation of what happened based on testimony rather than the actual trial. They were very good quality sketches, most pencil sketches but a couple were full colour. I was puzzled because both in real life, and I suppose in my dream life, I have zero artistic talent.

This meeting was being held in an outdoor setting, which jives with my real life (and assumed dream life) because I am often outside both when alone or in groups (canoeing, around a campfire, etc.). It of course doesn't seem realistic for a preparatory meeting for a trail/hearing, but then I have never been part of one so what do I know. The group started with maybe 8-10 of us, and grew over time to a couple of dozen or more. The leader of the group was in a military uniform (fatigues, not dress), and there might have been a couple of others in military wear but most were in civies.

As things started to wrap up I asked the leader what role he wanted me to play, perhaps because I was wondering if he noticed me doze off during the meeting. He began to answer me, but got diverted onto another discussion so I never found out. Most of us adjourned to another location, also outside but instead of being in the middle of the woods was near a building I couldn't make out. Several people were in a lineup near a corner of the building, and slowly going around out of sight. I joined that subset and as I got around the corner I noticed they were getting coffee at a drive through, although they were all walking and not in cars.

It was about then that I woke up for real. The hearing was still playing on my television, although we were now over 4 hours into the hearing. I rewound to the place I dozed off, which I soon found. I could clearly recall up to where Goldman was giving his deposition, and around when he started playing tape of Sondland things got fuzzy so I knew about where I fell asleep. It was now daylight, so I got up and don't know much more of the real judicial hearing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 10, 2019, 01:05:08 pm
Another day, another shooting in the US of A. This time in Jersey City. I wonder if Trump got winged in one of those if the gun laws might get looked at? Nah, LaPierre would never allow that, what was I thinking.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 10, 2019, 04:15:08 pm
And we see Donny kissing a little Russian ass again by inviting Lavrov into the Oval Office. I didn't see any high ranking Ukranian's there. I guess that's a pretty good hint as to who Trump is relying on to help him win a second term.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 11, 2019, 03:15:29 pm
Trump opines he fears impeachment lest he be remembered in some fashion similar to Bill Clinton. Rest assured Mr. Trump, you will likely only be remembered by the placement of your orange tinted face in the Oxford dictionary alongside the word "ignominy".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on December 13, 2019, 12:21:30 pm
The only purpose this whole exercise is to prove the Entire GOP is lock step behind Trump. They have to own his behaviour.

If the US voter (in the only 6 states that matter) is cool with that, then it is what it is.

But short of someone in Trump's inner circle in the past 6 month breaking ranks and testifying, this whole process is going to go as expected.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on December 13, 2019, 12:58:47 pm
Ok, it happened again. Another dream, similar circumstances. Woke up early, put on the recording of first night of judicial committee debates on articles of impeachment. I fell asleep* rather quickly, Nadler had just begun his opening remarks. I know I missed Collins remarks because he would have followed, but I don't know if they influenced my dreams. I only remember a little bit of the dream, and when I woke up Gohmert was just wrapping up about an hour into the proceedings.

In my dream, I was in my house and this guy in a suit was talking loudly. I knew the subject matter was impeachment, but the rest is fuzzy. He was going on about being a victim. I finally got fed up and tried to shout at him to "shut the frig up" (you little baby) but I couldn't speak very well because of a sore throat (no I don't have one at the moment).

I watched about another hour after waking up, and that included Gaetz and Jordan so I wonder if Gohmert was worse. Sometime I might go back and see what really influenced me just for a laugh.


*Congressional committees are a great alternative to drugs.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 13, 2019, 01:10:38 pm
Apparently Trump has set a new record: he broke his previous record for tweets in a day by sending out 124. His previous was just over a hundred. And of course the current flurry happened to have a little something to do with IMPEACHMENT! He's not happy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on December 13, 2019, 01:26:11 pm
Apparently Trump has set a new record: he broke his previous record for tweets in a day by sending out 124. His previous was just over a hundred. And of course the current flurry happened to have a little something to do with IMPEACHMENT! He's not happy.

Yet he calls the Democrats Do Nothing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on December 13, 2019, 01:43:23 pm
Yet he calls the Democrats Do Nothing.

We need a Democrat that can keep up that level of twitting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 13, 2019, 02:02:44 pm
We need a Democrat that can keep up that level of twitting.

Trump's little fingers I'm sure are helpful for all that keyboard activity. Oh but don't tell him I said that or he'll be tweeting me.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 14, 2019, 04:59:08 pm
Between Trump's support for the likes of Stephen Miller, who is a known white supremacist/racist, and Matt Bevin who recently pardoned over 400 criminals including child rapists and murderers as he left the Kentucky governors office, we can see what type of scumbags the current potus likes to have near him. Please send my "love" to the similar types over at "hillbillyville" who still support the likes of this guy. BC especially.

In all, the former governor signed off on 428 pardons and commutations since his loss to Democrat Andy Beshear, according to The Courier-Journal. The paper notes, "The beneficiaries include one offender convicted of raping a child, another who hired a hit man to kill his business partner and a third who killed his parents."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 17, 2019, 03:30:55 pm
Apparently Trump's nose is a little out of joint over the impeachment thing so he has sent a six page letter to Nancy Pelosi. It's not hard to tell it's his own composition as it sounds like a spoiled little kid who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, and is on the verge of breaking into tears trying to explain to mommy why he's innocent while he's also trying to pull his hand from the jar. He needs some hints as to spelling/capitalization, basic writing skills.

The full copy is available in the article if anyone needs a "laugh" or two.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/17/politics/donald-trump-letter-nancy-pelosi-impeachment/index.html

   "You are offending Americans of faith by continually saying 'I pray for the President,' when you know this statement is not true, unless it is meant in a negative sense," Trump writes in the letter. "It is a terrible thing you are doing, but you will have to live with it, not I!"

In another segment of the letter, Trump writes to the House speaker: "You do not know, nor do you care, the great damage and hurt you have inflicted upon wonderful and loving members of my family."
"You are the ones interfering in America's elections," Trump says, adding that Democrats are "(b)ringing pain and suffering to our republic for your own selfish personal, political and partisan gain."
The President was heavily critical of Democrats' pursuit of impeachment, defending himself by asserting that the Articles of Impeachment introduced "include no crimes, no misdemeanors, and no offenses whatsoever."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 17, 2019, 04:51:47 pm
Once again I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the Conway's dining room today.



George Conway on Trump: 'So dumb that he doesn’t know how to spell outrageous'

WASHINGTON – Conservative attorney George Conway questioned President Donald Trump's intelligence on Sunday night in a biting tweet after the president again misspelled the word outrageous as "outrages."

"It’s outrageous that the United States has a president who is so dumb that he doesn’t know how to spell 'outrageous," Conway tweeted. He pointed out that this "isn’t the first time he’s made this specific mistake, so you can’t chalk it up to the slip of a finger."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/12/16/george-conway-insults-trump-outrageous-misspelling/2665121001/

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on December 17, 2019, 05:11:00 pm
George Conway on Trump: 'So dumb that he doesn’t know how to spell outrageous'

The sign on the oval office says: The President is out, raging on Twitter.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 17, 2019, 07:27:56 pm
The sign on the oval office says: The President is out, raging on Twitter.

He can do at least 124/day apparently.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 17, 2019, 09:37:18 pm
I really wish Michelle Obama would run.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 18, 2019, 06:41:55 am
Oprah would make more sense.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 18, 2019, 02:17:09 pm
I wonder if Donny is scribbling up another multi page screed to send out after the vote count is revealed. He only has somewhere between 3-4 hours so he'll need to get after it. Hopefully someone will have turned on and explained the spellchecker mode for him this time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on December 18, 2019, 02:24:46 pm
I wonder if Donny is scribbling up another multi page screed to send out after the vote count is revealed.

I heard that he may be on stage at one of his therapy session this evening (rally in Battle Creek, Michigan) when the vote count is finally revealed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 18, 2019, 02:34:01 pm
I heard that he may be on stage at one of his therapy session this evening (rally in Battle Creek, Michigan) when the vote count is finally revealed.

I'll be tuning into that. I'm sure he will be able to eloquently follow up on one of his most recent related tweets.

"SUCH ATROCIOUS LIES BY THE RADICAL LEFT, DO NOTHING DEMOCRATS. THIS IS AN ASSAULT ON AMERICA, AND AN ASSAULT ON THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!!!!" the president tweeted Wednesday afternoon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 19, 2019, 12:44:17 pm
 Trump comments that he thinks John Dingell may be in hell. So I have wonder if actually serving your country in the military during a war gets you to hell, where does faking bone spurs so as to avoid such service get you. Thought about that Donny?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 20, 2019, 03:58:19 pm
It seems even Trump's religious right faction is now criticizing him. Good Lord!

The evangelical magazine founded by the late Rev. Billy Graham published a surprising editorial Thursday calling for President Trump’s removal and describing him as “a near perfect example of a human being who is morally lost and confused.”

“Whether Mr. Trump should be removed from office by the Senate or by popular vote next election—that is a matter of prudential judgment,” said the piece, written by editor in chief Mark Galli. “That he should be removed, we believe, is not a matter of partisan loyalties but loyalty to the Creator of the Ten Commandments.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2019/12/19/christianity-today-an-influential-evangelical-magazine-says-president-trump-should-be-removed-office/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 22, 2019, 08:10:50 am
Pelosi seems to be using the sheer volume of material that is reported on Donald against him.  He counts on the **** flurry of stuff to keep the voter off balance and effectively uninformed, but she has picked out something that came out earlier that even *I* forgot about:

There was a paper trail over the whitehouse asking the budget office to withhold aid. 

Still unclear if that will have any impact, ie. whether any swing voters still remain but even 2% is something in this environment.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/21/politics/emails-ukraine-aid-timeline/index.html

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 22, 2019, 12:26:46 pm
Pelosi seems to be using the sheer volume of material that is reported on Donald against him.  He counts on the **** flurry of stuff to keep the voter off balance and effectively uninformed, but she has picked out something that came out earlier that even *I* forgot about:

There was a paper trail over the whitehouse asking the budget office to withhold aid. 

Still unclear if that will have any impact, ie. whether any swing voters still remain but even 2% is something in this environment.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/21/politics/emails-ukraine-aid-timeline/index.html

I'm seeing this story hitting the TV news channels now but I wonder if the Trump drones will take the time to understand/apply the meaning of it. It seems the evangelicals are still following the path that Trump is "the chosen one" even after the Christianity Today article. Scary!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 31, 2019, 07:29:46 am
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/12/31/linda-ronstadt-trump-hitler-ac-sot-vpx.cnn

Linda Ronstadt compares Trump's America to Nazi Germany.

She shouldn't do that.  Hyperbole didn't help in 2016 and won't in 2020.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 31, 2019, 05:24:43 pm
Not a good plan. When people compare political figures with Hitler, I really question how much they know about Hitler. If some of his actions resemble any Nazi at all, it would be Goebbels.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 01, 2020, 08:27:34 pm
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/12/31/linda-ronstadt-trump-hitler-ac-sot-vpx.cnn

Linda Ronstadt compares Trump's America to Nazi Germany.

She shouldn't do that.  Hyperbole didn't help in 2016 and won't in 2020.

Hitler didn't start out by burning Jews. He started out long before that doing things comparable to what Trump is now doing. I dismissed the comparison when I first heard it...then I studied a little history.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 01, 2020, 08:33:23 pm
There's a vast space still between the current situation and the Nazis taking over.

But admittedly I know only the broad strokes.

Where are we, in relation in the Nazis timeline?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 01, 2020, 08:42:04 pm
There's a vast space still between the current situation and the Nazis taking over.

But admittedly I know only the broad strokes.

Where are we, in relation in the Nazis timeline?

Early days for sure. Trump though has already talked about doing away with term limits so as to be able to keep his grip on power. He also has ignored, or at least tried to, the concept of 3 co-equal government offices.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 02, 2020, 04:35:53 pm
Poor l'il Donny gets busted....again. Bring on the tweets.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7846065/Clear-direction-POTUS-hold-New-email-leak-hits-Donald-Trump-Ukraine-aid.html

'Clear direction from POTUS to hold': Bombshell email leak about Ukraine aid shows Trump directly ordered the cash freeze and Pentagon officials repeatedly warned it could be ILLEGAL

    Pentagon officials expressed concern that Donald Trump's directed military freeze of millions in aid to Ukraine was unlawful 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 02, 2020, 11:09:16 pm
Donny has now pissed off Iran. Good goin' buddy. You think they won't retaliate? I wouldn't head for the Baghdad airport any time soon. Or on second thought, please head there now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 03, 2020, 06:24:42 am
It's more like an initiation of war.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 03, 2020, 02:50:35 pm
I understand that this Iranian general Trump just took out was a bad boy with US blood on his hands and so maybe deserved what he got, but who the hell let Donny get access to the controls of killer drones? I dearly hope the adults in the room are keeping a close eye on him. Who knows, he may be thinking about targeting Biden next.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 04, 2020, 09:22:14 am
He has no plan but that might not matter at this point.  Even if he did countries are going their own way.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 04, 2020, 01:18:17 pm
Carrying out this assassination of Soleimani and 9 others at the Baghdad airport will prompt the ire of not only the Iranians, but also the Iraqis. Trump was going on previously about walking away from foreign wars, now he's sending 3500 troops to the Middle East.     
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 04, 2020, 09:48:41 pm
I wonder if Trump will tune in to watch Soleimeni's funeral tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 05, 2020, 09:48:51 am
I would go in person if they served those little sandwiches.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 05, 2020, 12:10:44 pm
I would go in person if they served those little sandwiches.

You mean those little 3 corner guys with the crust trimmed off and often stuffed with some sort of salmon mixture? Love those.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 05, 2020, 02:53:15 pm
You mean those little 3 corner guys with the crust trimmed off and often stuffed with some sort of salmon mixture? Love those.

Yeah.  They don't have the same ones every time.  Like at Bin Laden's they didn't have ham and Hussein's didn't have salmon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 05, 2020, 03:09:28 pm
Yeah.  They don't have the same ones every time.  Like at Bin Laden's they didn't have ham and Hussein's didn't have salmon.

I think, from what I've heard, the salmon had Bin Laden.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 05, 2020, 03:11:21 pm
I think, from what I've heard, the salmon had Bin Laden.

OMG

I JUST SET YOU UP FOR THE JOKE OF THE YEAR AND ITS ONLY JAN 5  :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 05, 2020, 04:31:28 pm
OMG

I JUST SET YOU UP FOR THE JOKE OF THE YEAR AND ITS ONLY JAN 5  :D

I couldn't help myself. Maybe we could get a gig in a coffee bar.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 05, 2020, 07:18:59 pm
I couldn't help myself. Maybe we could get a gig in a coffee bar.

Seriously, you have got talent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 05, 2020, 10:22:25 pm
Iraq government has now voted to expel all US troops out of the country. Well Trump wanted to get out of foreign wars, I guess he just picked a strange way to so. Oh but then there are those 3500 troops he just sent over there. I'm confused!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 06, 2020, 10:56:55 am
just when you thought the azzholeTrump couldn't get anymore unhinged, it seems the Iran based hacker group's posting of this image on a rather obscure U.S. government departmental web site set him off to yet another Tweet level!

in response to the TrumpTweet, the MSNBC reporter/journalist sarcastically (?) questions the security capability of the Twitter platform!  ;D

(https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/GXCTUI436VDJ5LGRL6LXZKX55Q.jpg)---(https://i.imgur.com/XMkOKyA.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 06, 2020, 01:37:04 pm
From the unexpected file, or maybe the "broken clock is right twice a day" file, here's Tucker "Motherf*cker" Carlson blasting neo-cons and chickenhawks for cheering on another US military misadventure in the Middle East.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlcsuJtXYkM

Carlson expresses an isolationist viewpoint ("how does this make America safer or richer?")  but also notes that one of the things Trump campaigned on in 2016 was to stay out of wars.  Remember all the people saying they were voting Trump because "Hillary is a warmonger" and "Hillary is going to start World War 3"?  Who's starting WW3 now, Trumptards?

Also, remember Trump predicting in 2012 that Obama would start a war with Iran to get re-elected?  Well, it's 2020, and guess who's up for re-election now, and guess who's starting a war with Iran?  Projection.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 06, 2020, 01:54:34 pm
Uh-oh, that could well lead Trump to throw another hissy fit against his fav. fake news outlet. I wonder if they will go as far as pointing out where Pompeo blatantly contradicts what his boss said twice, clearly, as to what he has now targeted in Iran (52 cultural targets) if they dare retaliate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 06, 2020, 03:33:30 pm
The US government is communicating with the president via Twitter.

Really Tucker doesn't matter.  The fact that the system can't discern good information means that we're going down.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 06, 2020, 03:45:22 pm
Just hearing that John Bolton has agreed to testify at Trump's impeachment trial if he is subpoenaed. Get that paperwork moving, this could be interesting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 06, 2020, 04:45:36 pm
Just hearing that John Bolton has agreed to testify at Trump's impeachment trial if he is subpoenaed. Get that paperwork moving, this could be interesting.

Will McConnell and Co agree to call witnesses?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 06, 2020, 05:11:06 pm
Will McConnell and Co agree to call witnesses?

McConnell has declared he will work 'hand in glove" or however he put it with the WH so I'm betting he's certainly going to do all he can to not hear from Bolton. The gongshow continues.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 06, 2020, 09:50:14 pm
Oprah would make more sense.

F**k Oprah and Michelle Obama.  We don't need any more celebs or political family dynasties.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 06, 2020, 10:14:38 pm
US needed to respond to all of the Iranian BS in Iraq and elsewhere.  Iran has initiated acts of war against the US either themselves or through proxies, including killing Americans, so Trump obviously said enough is enough.  Whether he went to far well I'm not sure, I don't know all the intel on this alleged planned attack against Americans in Iraq.  What I do know is Iran now knows who's boss.

Trumps end goal is to get Iran back to the table to negotiate a new nuclear deal.  US has used crushing sanctions to do it.  Iran has not much economic pressure to use so they've tried military pressure.  Looks like it failed.  I'm glad Trump has the balls to stand up to these types of jerks at the very least.  I'm not going to cry over the death of a brutal American-killing general who was the leader of what has been deemed a foreign terrorist organization for providing funding, training, and weapons to terrorist groups.

Interesting analysis by former US gov members and academics:  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50987753
"After the US invaded Iraq in 2003 he began directing militant groups to carry out attacks against US troops and bases, killing hundreds."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50980093

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 07, 2020, 12:31:29 am
US needed to respond to all of the Iranian BS in Iraq and elsewhere.  Iran has initiated acts of war against the US either themselves or through proxies, including killing Americans, so Trump obviously said enough is enough.  Whether he went to far well I'm not sure, I don't know all the intel on this alleged planned attack against Americans in Iraq.  What I do know is Iran now knows who's boss.

Trumps end goal is to get Iran back to the table to negotiate a new nuclear deal.  US has used crushing sanctions to do it.  Iran has not much economic pressure to use so they've tried military pressure.  Looks like it failed.  I'm glad Trump has the balls to stand up to these types of jerks at the very least.  I'm not going to cry over the death of a brutal American-killing general who was the leader of what has been deemed a foreign terrorist organization for providing funding, training, and weapons to terrorist groups.

Interesting analysis by former US gov members and academics:  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50987753
"After the US invaded Iraq in 2003 he began directing militant groups to carry out attacks against US troops and bases, killing hundreds."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50980093

Um no, Trump walked away from the existing nuclear deal with the US for no valid reasons and then imposed sanctions that hurt a lot of innocent people. Soelimani certainly was not a nice guy, whoever two previous US presidents, (who both had more brain cells by far than the current) decided an attack on the man would cause more problems than it would solve. Trumpty dumpty went ahead and now look what he has to deal with.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 07, 2020, 02:10:23 pm
Just watching/listening to the latest Trump interview with reporters as he entertains the Greek leader at the Oval Office. I feel my BP rising and I can't help hurling insulting cusses at teh screen as this retarded **** constantly lies through his teeth. All he wanted to do with his attack in Iran was to deflect the press from his impeachment situation. Were I an American I would publicly burn my birth certificate and head north.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on January 07, 2020, 03:34:19 pm
From the unexpected file, or maybe the "broken clock is right twice a day" file, here's Tucker "Motherf*cker" Carlson blasting neo-cons and chickenhawks for cheering on another US military misadventure in the Middle East.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlcsuJtXYkM

Carlson expresses an isolationist viewpoint ("how does this make America safer or richer?")  but also notes that one of the things Trump campaigned on in 2016 was to stay out of wars.  Remember all the people saying they were voting Trump because "Hillary is a warmonger" and "Hillary is going to start World War 3"?  Who's starting WW3 now, Trumptards?

Also, remember Trump predicting in 2012 that Obama would start a war with Iran to get re-elected?  Well, it's 2020, and guess who's up for re-election now, and guess who's starting a war with Iran?  Projection.


 -k

You're being silly.  There won't be any WW3.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on January 07, 2020, 03:35:32 pm
Um no, Trump walked away from the existing nuclear deal with the US for no valid reasons and then imposed sanctions that hurt a lot of innocent people. Soelimani certainly was not a nice guy, whoever two previous US presidents, (who both had more brain cells by far than the current) decided an attack on the man would cause more problems than it would solve. Trumpty dumpty went ahead and now look what he has to deal with.

Why do you suppose there was a nuclear deal in the first place?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 07, 2020, 03:39:13 pm
Why do you suppose there was a nuclear deal in the first place?

Uh, perhaps to allow a country to produce nuclear power without going far enough to produce nuclear warheads.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on January 07, 2020, 04:10:06 pm
Uh, perhaps to allow a country to produce nuclear power without going far enough to produce nuclear warheads.

Because anyone with an IQ over 65 knows that it's too dangerous to allow Iran a nuclear bomb...right?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 07, 2020, 04:19:24 pm
Because anyone with an IQ over 65 knows that it's too dangerous to allow Iran a nuclear bomb...right?

Speaking of low IQ's, I hope they are keeping the "football" well away from Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on January 07, 2020, 04:49:11 pm
Speaking of low IQ's, I hope they are keeping the "football" well away from Trump.

Why was there no consternation when Obama bombed Libya, Syria, Iraq, Yemen or Somalia?  Why were there cheers for killing Bin Laden, but not Soleimani?  It's kinda weird, no?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 07, 2020, 05:15:21 pm
Because anyone with an IQ over 65 knows that it's too dangerous to allow Iran a nuclear bomb...right?

So Trump gives them a ready made excuse to build one. The Stable Genius strikes again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on January 07, 2020, 05:25:09 pm
So Trump gives them a ready made excuse to build one. The Stable Genius strikes again.

Good grief man, they’re building a nuke, have been for several years.  This has nothing to do with Trump. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 07, 2020, 05:36:43 pm
Good grief man, they’re building a nuke, have been for several years.  This has nothing to do with Trump.

Perhaps you haven't heard of the Iran nuclear deal that came about under Obama. While it was not perfect, it did, and still does allow UN weapons inspectors into Iran to monitor. Luckily/hopefully they will be allowed to stay regardless of Trump's blather.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 07, 2020, 07:00:43 pm
Trump has to always lead with the lie about pallets of cash as a payoff.

The Democrat version of Trump will be elected in the next decade.  That will be fun.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 07, 2020, 07:48:12 pm
Good grief man, they’re building a nuke, have been for several years.  This has nothing to do with Trump.

So what has Trump done other than give them even more motivation? He just guaranteed Iran will have nukes by showing that any agreement made involving the US isn't worth the paper it is written on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 07, 2020, 08:37:43 pm
Trump decides he won't speak tonight. What should we make of that I wonder. New plan in the process after missile attacks from Iran-cooler heads reining Donny from killing all Muslims-he's busy with a 6 pack of coke and a few Burger Kings.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 07, 2020, 09:13:51 pm
Luckily we seem to be hearing there were no casualties arising from these missile attacks in Iraq. Hopefully that will allow this whole thing to calm down before somebody gets a black eye.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 07, 2020, 09:40:14 pm
War seals it for the American public....   Trump2020
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 07, 2020, 09:55:56 pm
War seals it for the American public....   Trump2020

Nothing more effective to divert from impeachment hearings than starting a foreign war. Will Americans be blind enough to buy that bullshit? I mean beyond those from Mississippi etc.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 07, 2020, 10:03:00 pm
Nothing more effective to divert from impeachment hearings than starting a foreign war. Will Americans be blind enough to buy that bullshit? I mean beyond those from Mississippi etc.

Absolutely!!   Nothing coalesces the American public behind the president like a BS war!   See:  Iraq.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 07, 2020, 10:09:59 pm
Absolutely!!   Nothing coalesces the American public behind the president like a BS war!   See:  Iraq.

So it seems. And yes I did see Iraq. I was there when the bombs alla Bush started falling. Oh well, I got to hoist a glass or two (more) in Damascus on the way out. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 08, 2020, 07:28:28 am
This remains to be confirmed.

The US has been in Afghanistan since 2001, at odds with Iraq since 1991, and Iran since 1979.

Trump campaigned to stay away from the endless wars.

Are they going to fall behind him?


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 08, 2020, 01:55:44 pm
I am somewhat optimistic (perhaps hopelessly) after hearing Trump's comments earlier today reacting to the Iran issue. I suspect the US military higher ups got with him and told Donny to calm down. That combined with the Iranian retort by way of firing missiles into two US bases, but that were obviously aimed to land without killing or damaging, amounts to a face saving move for the people of Iran, without prompting an escalation. That maybe a tad complex for Trump to comprehend, but his rhetoric seems to have calmed down so lets hope they can keep him in check.   

Unfortunately for Donny, it seems his attempt to move the focus away from his impeachment hearings hasn't been very effective. The senate trial is set to begin and John Bolton has agreed to testify.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 08, 2020, 02:48:14 pm
This remains to be confirmed.

The US has been in Afghanistan since 2001, at odds with Iraq since 1991, and Iran since 1979.

Trump campaigned to stay away from the endless wars.

Are they going to fall behind him?

Trump doesn't want a war, and certainly won't be invading Iran or doing regime change or any of that jazz.  His concerns are to protect Americans, get Iran back to the negotiating table to sign a "better" nuke deal, and say offensive things on twitter that get him attention. 

Iran doesn't want a war either.  They want the US to screw off and leave them alone and let them do what they want, which includes "wiping Israel from the pages of time", selling their oil freely, and heightening their position of power in the region vis-a-vis Israel & Saudis largely by trying to control the balance of power in Iraq.

If the US always sides with Israel and the Saudis, then Iran (and Syria) and the US will always be at odds.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 08, 2020, 03:03:20 pm
Trump is being pretty un Trump like, maybe because his numbers went down 1%.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 08, 2020, 03:22:09 pm
Trump doesn't want a war, and certainly won't be invading Iran or doing regime change or any of that jazz.  His concerns are to protect Americans, get Iran back to the negotiating table to sign a "better" nuke deal, and say offensive things on twitter that get him attention. 

Iran doesn't want a war either.  They want the US to screw off and leave them alone and let them do what they want, which includes "wiping Israel from the pages of time", selling their oil freely, and heightening their position of power in the region vis-a-vis Israel & Saudis largely by trying to control the balance of power in Iraq.

If the US always sides with Israel and the Saudis, then Iran (and Syria) and the US will always be at odds.

Wanting a "better" nuke deal is fine. Tearing up the existing nuke deal is stupid. The Irina's could now simply thumb their nose at the US and carry on with upgrading toward a nuke bomb. Luckily the EU who are part of the agreement have cooler heads and will continue to monitor.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 08, 2020, 04:47:17 pm
Trump doesn't want a war, and certainly won't be invading Iran or doing regime change or any of that jazz.  His concerns are to protect Americans, get Iran back to the negotiating table to sign a "better" nuke deal, and say offensive things on twitter that get him attention. 

Iran doesn't want a war either.  They want the US to screw off and leave them alone and let them do what they want, which includes "wiping Israel from the pages of time", selling their oil freely, and heightening their position of power in the region vis-a-vis Israel & Saudis largely by trying to control the balance of power in Iraq.

If the US always sides with Israel and the Saudis, then Iran (and Syria) and the US will always be at odds.

Seems like no deal is a better deal because that is all Trump is getting. Americans have a short and selective memory. The US and Britain overthrew a popular elected government in 1953 and installed the Shah with his secret police and the present regime is a response to that. The US supported Iraq in the Iraq Iran war because at the time they viewed Saddam as their proxy. Regardless of who is in power in Iran, Iranians will never see America as a friend of theirs because it never has been.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 08, 2020, 09:05:06 pm
Anybody got any ideas as to what brought down the airplane departing Tehran? Malfunction/missile/Trump was at the controls?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 08, 2020, 10:48:51 pm
Seems like no deal is a better deal because that is all Trump is getting. Americans have a short and selective memory. The US and Britain overthrew a popular elected government in 1953 and installed the Shah with his secret police and the present regime is a response to that. The US supported Iraq in the Iraq Iran war because at the time they viewed Saddam as their proxy. Regardless of who is in power in Iran, Iranians will never see America as a friend of theirs because it never has been.

True.  Their interests rarely align.  Iran has to defend itself against a US-backed Saudi Arabia and Israel in the region, and now against what had been and could be a US proxy regime in Iraq.  So they've aligned with Russia and China and N.Korea.

Unfortunately Iran also widely uses terrorism to achieve goals, and as Trump said in his speech has used the billions from oil money gained after Obama lifted the sanctions to sponsor and commit terrorism across the middle east.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 08, 2020, 11:25:04 pm
According to even GOP senators who spoke after the latest briefing from the WH as to what happened in Iran, it sounds like he completely overstepped his bounds. No evidence whatso ever as to an imminent threat that would allow Trump to order an attack without the support of congress. He's either stupider than I think, or more closely pursuing a similar approach as did Hitler. Scary eh!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 08, 2020, 11:33:05 pm
oMG he looked like **** today.  He won't live through two terms mark my words.  He could go any time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 08, 2020, 11:43:28 pm
He seems to have now alienated the senate as well as the congress long ago, so he's a bit of a loner without a lot of support left or right, and not having a clue what to do. All the orange powder can't hide that. The next few days will be interesting I expect.
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 08, 2020, 11:49:37 pm
I'm betting the plane in Tehran got hit by a missile. Could be why the black boxes are being withheld. So now perhaps the Ukraine gets back onto the headlines. I think I'll pour a drink.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 09, 2020, 12:32:23 pm
It appears after the latest top secret meeting with congress that if Trump had any intel which indicated the Soeilomani was about to carry out some sort of attack justifying Trump's order to have him killed, he has chosen not to reveal it. Or does it just not exist? I guess even after ~3 years as POTUS he hasn't yet learned what the constitution says with regard to who has the authority to declare war. So congress now has to waste even more time explaining it to him. Of course explaining limits of power will be difficult to a man who believes he can shoot someone on Fifth avenue and get away with it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 09, 2020, 02:47:00 pm
True.  Their interests rarely align.  Iran has to defend itself against a US-backed Saudi Arabia and Israel in the region, and now against what had been and could be a US proxy regime in Iraq.  So they've aligned with Russia and China and N.Korea.

Unfortunately Iran also widely uses terrorism to achieve goals, and as Trump said in his speech has used the billions from oil money gained after Obama lifted the sanctions to sponsor and commit terrorism across the middle east.

As they say, one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. The present Iranian regime is pretty nasty but in a big way, the West is responsible for its existence. By putting the Shah in power and propping him up for so long, many Iranians came to the conclusion that anything was better and at the time, the clerics were the strongest option. It's the same kind of mentality that put Trump in the Whitehouse.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Hal 9000 on January 10, 2020, 03:55:20 pm
It's all about nuclear weapons - that's all.  We can talk about sanctions and overthrows or anything else you want, it doesn't matter.  Iran has been actively seeking nuclear weapons for 40+ years and at every turn the USA has blocked them.  Diplomacy won't help, leaving them alone won't help, a change in US government wont help, nothing will help except allowing Iran to possess nukes - and nobody wants that, not even China and Russia.  I'm not saying anything new or provocative, that's the reality - the want a nukes and no amount of appeasement or diplomacy is going to change that.

And, if anyone thinks the "nuclear deal" was working - think again, they were at 20% enrichment when the deal was signed, now they're saying that they're inside of a year from developing nukes.  Yeah, they didn't skip a beat - probably ramped it up after securing the $150B.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 10, 2020, 04:09:21 pm
It's all about nuclear weapons - that's all.  We can talk about sanctions and overthrows or anything else you want, it doesn't matter.  Iran has been actively seeking nuclear weapons for 40+ years and at every turn the USA has blocked them.  Diplomacy won't help, leaving them alone won't help, a change in US government wont help, nothing will help except allowing Iran to possess nukes - and nobody wants that, not even China and Russia.  I'm not saying anything new or provocative, that's the reality - the want a nukes and no amount of appeasement or diplomacy is going to change that.

And, if anyone thinks the "nuclear deal" was working - think again, they were at 20% enrichment when the deal was signed, now they're saying that they're inside of a year from developing nukes.  Yeah, they didn't skip a beat - probably ramped it up after securing the $150B.

So go to war then but don't expect help. The US has made enough of a mess in the Middle East, others won't want any part of making it worse.

What with Meng, Canadians being held in China and our exports throttled and now PS752, Canada has been subjected to enough American collateral damage for awhile.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 10, 2020, 04:16:09 pm
It's all about nuclear weapons - that's all.  We can talk about sanctions and overthrows or anything else you want, it doesn't matter.  Iran has been actively seeking nuclear weapons for 40+ years and at every turn the USA has blocked them.  Diplomacy won't help, leaving them alone won't help, a change in US government wont help, nothing will help except allowing Iran to possess nukes - and nobody wants that, not even China and Russia.  I'm not saying anything new or provocative, that's the reality - the want a nukes and no amount of appeasement or diplomacy is going to change that.

And, if anyone thinks the "nuclear deal" was working - think again, they were at 20% enrichment when the deal was signed, now they're saying that they're inside of a year from developing nukes.  Yeah, they didn't skip a beat - probably ramped it up after securing the $150B.

The deal that Trump trashed was working, and in fact still is to a point since cooler heads from Europe who are part of the deal, have simply thumbed their noses at Trump and carried on being on site in Iran to monitor. Trump must be really pissed off again that his assassination of Soeilomani hasn't derailed the impeachment progress as he would have liked.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 10, 2020, 07:43:26 pm
I wonder how many more versions Trump will try flogging as to why he ordered the hit in Iran. In any case, it seems Pompeo will shout them out as fast as Donny can come up with them. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 12, 2020, 03:33:28 pm
https://mobile.twitter.com/phyll_indablank/status/1216044985063219200

Ellon Musk could handle this job and hey I bet this would hasten extraterrestrials to reveal themselves to us by expressing their concerns we might shoot Trump onto their planets.

Sounds like a win/win.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 13, 2020, 06:14:03 pm
What colossal ****-ups the Trump administration is:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/13/politics/pompeo-barr-soleimani-strike-iran-rationale/index.html

Rationale for the strike has now changed....  >:(
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 13, 2020, 09:21:01 pm
What colossal ****-ups the Trump administration is:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/13/politics/pompeo-barr-soleimani-strike-iran-rationale/index.html

Rationale for the strike has now changed....  >:(

Doesn't seem to matter. That's the scariest part.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 13, 2020, 10:06:42 pm
What colossal ****-ups the Trump administration is:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/13/politics/pompeo-barr-soleimani-strike-iran-rationale/index.html

Rationale for the strike has now changed....  >:(

It's just for PR.  Trump showed Iran who's boss, that's all that matters, besides the innocent people Iran stupidly killed by mistake.  Iran will think twice before trying to eff with the US like they have been the last year.  Soleimani has been killing Americans for decades.  That's over now.  Trump's job is to protect Americans.

Trump is amassing as much leverage as possible on Iran in order to get a "better" deal with Iran.  Probably won't happen before the election, Iran will wait it out, hope he's not re-elected.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 13, 2020, 10:19:56 pm
Trump continues to demonstrate what a retarded ****, racist he is by flogging this photo.

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/trump-slammed-for-islamophobic-speech-after-retweeting-fake-image-of-pelosi-wearing-hijab-1.8398579
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 14, 2020, 04:53:51 am
It's just for PR.  Trump showed Iran who's boss, that's all that matters, besides the innocent people Iran stupidly killed by mistake.  Iran will think twice before trying to eff with the US like they have been the last year.  Soleimani has been killing Americans for decades.  That's over now.  Trump's job is to protect Americans.

Trump is amassing as much leverage as possible on Iran in order to get a "better" deal with Iran.  Probably won't happen before the election, Iran will wait it out, hope he's not re-elected.

Trump didn't get a big bump in the polls though.  He had the right to hit back at Iran and even go after the target he chose but he did it in too Trumpian a way...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 14, 2020, 02:10:24 pm
It's just for PR.  Trump showed Iran who's boss, that's all that matters, besides the innocent people Iran stupidly killed by mistake.  Iran will think twice before trying to eff with the US like they have been the last year.  Soleimani has been killing Americans for decades.  That's over now.  Trump's job is to protect Americans.

Trump is amassing as much leverage as possible on Iran in order to get a "better" deal with Iran.  Probably won't happen before the election, Iran will wait it out, hope he's not re-elected.

Did he? Iran has survived a lot worse than Trump. USS Vincennes also stupidly killed 290 people by mistake in 1988.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 14, 2020, 02:27:07 pm
Trump didn't get a big bump in the polls though.  He had the right to hit back at Iran and even go after the target he chose but he did it in too Trumpian a way...

Indeed he did.
 Everyone who attended the closed door meeting were evidence of impending attacks by Iran to justify Trump's actions was supposed to be provided,  came out shaking their heads remarking what a waste of time it was. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 14, 2020, 02:35:32 pm
Trump didn't get a big bump in the polls though.  He had the right to hit back at Iran and even go after the target he chose but he did it in too Trumpian a way...

Thankfully the whole military stare-down has seemed to have stabilized for now.  We'll see how long that lasts.  I suspect Iran will lick its wounds for a bit and re-strategize.

I'm not a "Trump supporter".  The guy is a wingnut.  But he has shown a lot of restraint in the last year vs Iran, he did basically nothing until now, until an embassy was attacked and more attacks against Americans allegedly planned.  An embassy is US soil and any US soil needs to be defended from attack.  Trump has also shown to be the least willing POTUS to use US military force since Jimmy Carter.  Coincidentally, the Iranians have taken advantage of the leniency of both of these POTUS' to attack US embassies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 14, 2020, 02:46:54 pm
Thankfully the whole military stare-down has seemed to have stabilized for now.  We'll see how long that lasts.  I suspect Iran will lick its wounds for a bit and re-strategize.

I'm not a "Trump supporter".  The guy is a wingnut.  But he has shown a lot of restraint in the last year vs Iran, he did basically nothing until now, until an embassy was attacked and more attacks against Americans allegedly planned.  An embassy is US soil and any US soil needs to be defended from attack.  Trump has also shown to be the least willing POTUS to use US military force since Jimmy Carter.  Coincidentally, the Iranians have taken advantage of the leniency of both of these POTUS' to attack US embassies.

How many hostages taken from the US embassy in 1979 died?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 14, 2020, 02:49:32 pm
Thankfully the whole military stare-down has seemed to have stabilized for now.  We'll see how long that lasts.  I suspect Iran will lick its wounds for a bit and re-strategize.

I'm not a "Trump supporter".  The guy is a wingnut.  But he has shown a lot of restraint in the last year vs Iran, he did basically nothing until now, until an embassy was attacked and more attacks against Americans allegedly planned.  An embassy is US soil and any US soil needs to be defended from attack.  Trump has also shown to be the least willing POTUS to use US military force since Jimmy Carter.  Coincidentally, the Iranians have taken advantage of the leniency of both of these POTUS' to attack US embassies.

Trump blew this one ,once again by lying and failing to provide any evidence of your so called "allegedly planned attacks" and demonstrating he and his boys haven't looked up or understood the meaning of the word "Imminent". And it failed to derail the impeachment process for any more than a few days so it looks like a failed plan all round.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 14, 2020, 05:11:52 pm
How many hostages taken from the US embassy in 1979 died?

How many Americans did Soleimani kill? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 14, 2020, 05:16:56 pm
How many Americans did Soleimani kill?

How many Iraqi’s have died as a result of the 2003 invasion? If you want to compare body counts in the region, the US is very competitive.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 14, 2020, 05:22:42 pm
How many Americans did Soleimani kill?

A few hundred. Bush's war in Iraq is up to about 182000.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 14, 2020, 05:24:02 pm
Trump blew this one ,once again by lying and failing to provide any evidence of your so called "allegedly planned attacks" and demonstrating he and his boys haven't looked up or understood the meaning of the word "Imminent". And it failed to derail the impeachment process for any more than a few days so it looks like a failed plan all round.

You're right.  It looks like Trump either lied or mispoke, using the term "imminent".  The admin should provide evidence of what Soleimani was up to in order to justify the attack.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 14, 2020, 05:25:26 pm
A few hundred. Bush's war in Iraq is up to about 182000.

Bush is 10x the war criminal, agreed.  He and his gang should be in jail forever.  They are monsters.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 14, 2020, 05:48:48 pm
Soleimani may have been a real prick but isn’t assassinating someone on foreign soil a violation of  that country’s sovereignty? The US seems to look at all of Iraq as its territory, not just its embassy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 14, 2020, 05:59:00 pm
Their foreigners policy has been going downhill from a strategy viewpoint for years.

They got Qaddafi to the table, then killed him guaranteeing that NK and Iran would never come in from the cold.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 14, 2020, 06:00:35 pm
Bush is 10x the war criminal, agreed.  He and his gang should be in jail forever.  They are monsters.

Trump could find himself actually in jail, especially if he is impeached or not reelected.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 14, 2020, 06:04:14 pm
Their foreigners policy has been going downhill from a strategy viewpoint for years.

They got Qaddafi to the table, then killed him guaranteeing that NK and Iran would never come in from the cold.

Trump has already made us aware he loves Fat Kim.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 14, 2020, 06:57:58 pm
Soleimani may have been a real prick but isn’t assassinating someone on foreign soil a violation of  that country’s sovereignty? The US seems to look at all of Iraq as its territory, not just its embassy.

Maybe.  It might depend on if you consider Iraq still an active warzone or not.  Iran has been killing Americans on Iraqi soil too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 14, 2020, 07:00:07 pm
Trump could find himself actually in jail, especially if he is impeached or not reelected.

In the US a POTUS can kill hundreds of thousands of people in foreign countries based on lies but if you lie about sex you can go to jail.  But I do agree with the Trump impeachment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 14, 2020, 08:31:15 pm
In the US a POTUS can kill hundreds of thousands of people in foreign countries based on lies but if you lie about sex you can go to jail.  But I do agree with the Trump impeachment.

Lying about sex won't take you to jail, but criminal offenses such as assault involving sex can.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 14, 2020, 10:13:09 pm
Maybe.  It might depend on if you consider Iraq still an active warzone or not.  Iran has been killing Americans on Iraqi soil too.

Iraqi opinions obviously don't count in their own country, neither does their sovereignty. If the US decided to take out someone in Canada would that be OK? Is our sovereignty more sovereign than Iraq's?  High handed stuff like this is the reason the US will never have any friends in this region, only countries willing to tolerate them for a time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 14, 2020, 11:28:46 pm
Lying about sex won't take you to jail, but criminal offenses such as assault involving sex can.

Clinton was impeached for lying under oath about who he had sex with.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 15, 2020, 12:03:59 am
Clinton was impeached for lying under oath about who he had sex with.

That's slightly different that bragging about "I can grab women by the **** because I'm a star" don't ya think?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 15, 2020, 10:06:08 am
Guliani was having Yovanovitch followed by his henchmen.  That's what we're dealing with here.

https://www.businessinsider.com/texts-giuliani-ally-lev-parnas-discuss-stalking-yovanovitch-2020-1
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 15, 2020, 10:39:26 am
Clinton was impeached for lying under oath about who he had sex with.

True but at least he testified. Trump would convict himself within five minutes of opening his mouth .
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 15, 2020, 10:30:35 pm
A bit of a tough day for Trump between the impeachment process moving to the senate and the Rachel Maddow interview with Lev Parnas. Part two of that interview tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 16, 2020, 02:07:27 pm
US Intel. heads now want to stop the annual public briefing on potential security threats lest the anger Trump.

"The U.S. intelligence community is trying to persuade House and Senate lawmakers to drop the public portion of an annual briefing on the globe’s greatest security threats — a move compelled by last year’s session that provoked an angry outburst from President Donald Trump, multiple sources told POLITICO.

Officials from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, on behalf of the larger clandestine community, don’t want agency chiefs to be seen on-camera as disagreeing with the president on big issues such as Iran, Russia or North Korea, according to three people familiar with preliminary negotiations over what's known as the Worldwide Threats hearing."

Story Continued Below



Wait, wasn't this the same guy who used such Intel. to order an assassination in Iran just a bit ago?
Can you say "Hypocrite"


https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/15/intel-agencies-threats-hearing-trump-099494
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 20, 2020, 04:00:46 pm
One of Trump's main legal team members has certainly flip-flopped on what amounts to an impeachable offense. A lawyer lying to suit his client, imagine that!

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/20/politics/dershowitz-trump-legal-analysis/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 20, 2020, 07:21:14 pm
I really want Biden to win so that this presidency just f***ing ends...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 20, 2020, 08:20:58 pm
I really want Biden to win so that this presidency just f***ing ends...

I hope they at least go so far as to vote to allow witnesses into the hearings. How the hell would could there be hearings without them? I especially want to hear from Bolton, among others.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 20, 2020, 10:37:53 pm
I really want Biden to win so that this presidency just f***ing ends...

Biden or anyone else.  I just want to see him lose badly.  The way I see it is impeachment would've been goo 1 or 2 years in but not now.

A war with Iran and starting WW3 notwithstanding, is it really gonna make that much of a difference at this point to make a martyr out of the guy and possibly bring in a better Republican candidate for 2020?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 20, 2020, 11:22:11 pm
Biden or anyone else.  I just want to see him lose badly.  The way I see it is impeachment would've been goo 1 or 2 years in but not now.

A war with Iran and starting WW3 notwithstanding, is it really gonna make that much of a difference at this point to make a martyr out of the guy and possibly bring in a better Republican candidate for 2020?

Trump has acquired the notoriety of the first ever POTUS to be running for a second term after being impeached. I doubt the senate will turn on him so they'll have to depend on the voter come November to correct things. Hopefully young folks will get off their arses and go vote. That would likely send the boy on his way.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 21, 2020, 03:46:36 pm
Just taking in a bit of the impeachment process ongoing. As hum drum as it is, I'm wondering what all this process, along with all the time that has been wasted, while Trump played golf etc., is costing the average American taxpayer who didn't vote the idiot in in the first place. I'm thinking it's a big number. Imagine what a second term would look like!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on January 22, 2020, 07:55:14 am
Thankfully the whole military stare-down has seemed to have stabilized for now.  We'll see how long that lasts.  I suspect Iran will lick its wounds for a bit and re-strategize.

I'm not a "Trump supporter".  The guy is a wingnut.  But he has shown a lot of restraint in the last year vs Iran, he did basically nothing until now, until an embassy was attacked and more attacks against Americans allegedly planned.  An embassy is US soil and any US soil needs to be defended from attack.  Trump has also shown to be the least willing POTUS to use US military force since Jimmy Carter.  Coincidentally, the Iranians have taken advantage of the leniency of both of these POTUS' to attack US embassies.
Restraint!? The **** idiot set the fire and now you praise him for restraint! Give your head a shake.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on January 22, 2020, 07:56:12 am
I really want Biden to win so that this presidency just f***ing ends...
Biden is conservative garbage. If he gets the nomination, Trump will win again. Mark my words.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 22, 2020, 01:02:22 pm
Biden is conservative garbage. If he gets the nomination, Trump will win again. Mark my words.

Don't predict anything.  At your most forward say "I think this may happen..."

I think Biden may win... don't Mark My Words...  :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 22, 2020, 01:15:07 pm
Don't predict anything.  At your most forward say "I think this may happen..."

I think Biden may win... don't Mark My Words...  :D

Looking at the situation currently and the dozen contenders remaining on the Dem. list, I would agree that Biden may well win. And if he doesn't then Trump will win again. Now than after all that political contemplation, I think I need a donut. Big one.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Super Colin Blow on January 23, 2020, 02:07:21 pm
Looking at the situation currently and the dozen contenders remaining on the Dem. list, I would agree that Biden may well win. And if he doesn't then Trump will win again. Now than after all that political contemplation, I think I need a donut. Big one.

Why do you think Biden will win? He does not have much in the way of Democratic Party (currently lefty) credentials. Extremists win the primary. Moderates win the general election.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 23, 2020, 02:17:56 pm
Why do you think Biden will win? He does not have much in the way of Democratic Party (currently lefty) credentials. Extremists win the primary. Moderates win the general election.

For starters let me say I'm not a huge fan of Biden's, however I suspect he holds the upper hand among the polls because dems. simply want someone they think can beat Trump. Kamala Harris for instance may be equally competent and qualified, but a Black woman in the WH would be a  bit of a bridge too far currently.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 25, 2020, 04:29:20 pm
Mike Pompeo gets caught lying to and apparently cursing at a well respected NPR interview after she pressed him about Ukraine.
Well I guess if you're not a lying bully slob you're no longer in Trump's cabinet. All the decent people have left or been fired.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo berated and cursed at a National Public Radio reporter following a contentious exchange over Ukraine, the reporter said on Friday.

Pompeo was interviewed by NPR correspondent Mary Louise Kelly, who says he cut the interview short after she repeatedly pressed him on why he hasn't defended former Amb. Marie Yovanovitch. Yovanovitch was unceremoniously removed as the ambassador to Ukraine by President Donald Trump and has been a central figure in his impeachment.

Pompeo told her he was there to talk about Iran and that he has defended "every State Department official." When she asked him to specify when he has defended Yovanovitch specifically he said, "I've said all I'm going to say" and ended the interview.

She said that after the interview ended, Pompeo became unhappy, glared at her and left the room with his aides.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/01/25/pompeo-berated-cursed-npr-reporter-over-ukraine-questions-she-says-n1122566
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 25, 2020, 10:02:06 pm
Put a big "U" in front of this pic so Pompeo can find the country on a map without confusing it with Bangladesh.

https://www.google.com/search?q=photos+of+a+crane&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=sikgg0OHLWn9RM%253A%252CfP_e_yd0XibaUM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kRZYa9qBlg1x1at1ImyhVkzgfgCPA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj_9sH2rqDnAhXK7Z4KHWSEDY0Q9QEwAnoECAgQJg#imgrc=sikgg0OHLWn9RM:
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 27, 2020, 01:30:22 pm
I see Trump's legal team so far are sticking to their previously prepared manuscripts in an attempt to pave over the bombshell which came out of Bolton's book. Talk about "the elephant in the room" scenario!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 29, 2020, 10:26:11 pm
C'mon senators, convict Trump so they can throw the bonehead out of office, prime time TV can get back to being interesting, and BC over at MLW can continue peeing his pants. ;)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 30, 2020, 09:16:27 am
You know BC didn't vote for the Trump right.

He will continue to be entertained by Canadian distraction, don't hope for some phantom commuppance because your hopes will be dashed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 30, 2020, 07:18:07 pm
Biden is conservative garbage. If he gets the nomination, Trump will win again. Mark my words.

I don't think he's conservative (though he may be garbage lol), I think he's more of a 90's Clinton-era Democrat, which seems more conservative these days especially next to Warren or Sanders.

I think if you put a good moderate or centre-left candidate up there they'd have a good chance, but that doesn't seem to exist.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 30, 2020, 07:44:43 pm
Biden is the one to beat, Trump even if it's only through name recognition and of course background. I'm sure there are Dems who conclude he is not perfect and perhaps a bit old, but getting rid of Trump is the ultimate goal and if he's matched with the right running mate it could work. Here's hoping.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 30, 2020, 09:19:29 pm
People are so spooked by 2016 that they don't believe their own eyes. See those little green lines ?  Those are TRUMP'S approval ratings.  Only Carter and Truman dipped lower and then they soared above him again.

Yes, 2016 was a surprise... but are you really going to trust your intuition over these numbers ?  Biden polls well against him, but so does everyone.  Here's why: America hates Trump.

Ironically, his own bullshit is convincing even us -  the people who hate him !  ??? ??? ???

(https://i.imgur.com/t6b4CDQ.png)


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 30, 2020, 10:13:36 pm
Yes, 2016 was a surprise... but are you really going to trust your intuition over these numbers ?  Biden polls well against him, but so does everyone.  Here's why: America hates Trump.

I'm not going to trust my intuition over polls, i'm just not going to trust either.   You're basing all this on polls over Trump's approval rating, and I'm saying I don't trust Trump polls.  Don't underestimate the guy.

I'm not saying he's popular, I'm saying it's definitely possible he can beat Biden.  Also, go look at Obama's approval rating there.  It's also fascinating that Trump's approval rating hasn't been negatively affected at all by being impeached!...and in fact seems to keep slowly trending upward.  WTF lol.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 31, 2020, 05:09:31 am
1. I'm not going to trust my intuition over polls, i'm just not going to trust either.   

2. You're basing all this on polls over Trump's approval rating, and I'm saying I don't trust Trump polls.  Don't underestimate the guy.

3. I'm not saying he's popular, I'm saying it's definitely possible he can beat Biden.  Also, go look at Obama's approval rating there.  It's also fascinating that Trump's approval rating hasn't been negatively affected at all by being impeached!...and in fact seems to keep slowly trending upward.  WTF lol.

1. You said "I think if you put a good moderate or centre-left candidate up there they'd have a good chance".  That's the phrase I'm jumping on.  The one-to-one matchup polls have Trump losing to pretty much ANY Democrat. 

2. There it is the poll voodoo.  Why don't you trust "Trump polls" ?  Because of 2016 ?

3. Yes but it's very low also.  Obama pulled up in time for the election in 2012...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 31, 2020, 08:44:07 am
1. You said "I think if you put a good moderate or centre-left candidate up there they'd have a good chance".  That's the phrase I'm jumping on.  The one-to-one matchup polls have Trump losing to pretty much ANY Democrat.

The polls keep switching in favour of Trump beating everyone to any anyone beating Trump depending on who is doing the poll.  These polls suck:  https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/

And one person being more popular than another doesn't mean they'll win the Electoral College.

Quote
2. There it is the poll voodoo.  Why don't you trust "Trump polls" ?  Because of 2016 ?

Right.  Take them with a big grain of salt.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 31, 2020, 10:36:00 am
The polls keep switching in favour of Trump beating everyone to any anyone beating Trump depending on who is doing the poll.  These polls suck:  https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/

And one person being more popular than another doesn't mean they'll win the Electoral College.

 Take them with a big grain of salt.

Ok. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 31, 2020, 11:16:07 am
  https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/

And one person being more popular than another doesn't mean they'll win the Electoral College.



And that was clearly demonstrated most recently in 2016.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 31, 2020, 12:50:59 pm
His numbers were higher up to the election though, no ? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 31, 2020, 12:55:21 pm
His numbers were higher up to the election though, no ?

Huh?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 31, 2020, 01:03:27 pm
His numbers were higher up to the election though, no ?

My point was referring to the fact Hillary won the pop. vote by about 3 million, but Trump still got elected, courtesy of the EC.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 31, 2020, 07:21:10 pm
Huh?

Trump's poll numbers?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 31, 2020, 09:20:22 pm
No witnesses allowed so in effect there is no actual trial as to what actually happened with Ukraine. And then of course the senate will never convict their bum boy so I cringe to think how Trump will emerge from impeachment like a spoiled little brat with a new bag of shiny popgun toys. I am sooo happy I'm not an American, especially these days.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 01, 2020, 07:10:16 am
If Trump were impeached, Pence would have become president and he would probably be even worse. Trump would become a big crybaby martyr and the batshit crazy Trumpers would be energized and determined to get revenge. It would have very likely backfired on the Dems and four more years of Pence would not be inconceivable.
This way, the Republjcans look like corrupt garbage and have to run in the election explaining why they are such corrupt garbage. They also have to run Trump as their candidate, and his mental decline is already so apparent it is promising to be extremely sad to watch.
For them. I'll find it funny, but they'll find it sad.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 01, 2020, 07:54:25 am
Trump's poll numbers?

So I looked back at this.  Trump's poll numbers were definitely higher than now:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

BUT the fivethirtyeight put his victory chances at a very high (relatively) 28.6%.  What happened was that the polls didn't account for a high level of undecideds breaking for Trump in a big way in the Swing States.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-fivethirtyeight-gave-trump-a-better-chance-than-almost-anyone-else/

(https://i.imgur.com/ZgalgaM.png)

The 28.6% is kind of bullshit but also kind of real.  If I told you you had a 30% chance of winning $1M would you buy a ticket ?  Sure.

Now, when I look at the undecideds they are still pretty high - 7% to 10% .  The state polls are more of a toss up than I thought also.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 01, 2020, 08:11:22 am
https://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/trump-job-approval/edit#!minpct=0&maxpct=100&mindate=2020-01-01&maxdate=2020-02-01&smoothing=moderate&showpoints=yes&showsplines=yes&hiddenpollsters=&hiddensubpops=A%20-%20D,A%20-%20R,A%20-%20i,RV%20-%20D,RV%20-%20R,RV%20-%20i,LV%20-%20D,LV%20-%20R,LV%20-%20i&partisanship=S,P,N&parties=D,R,I,N&selected=approve,disapprove&fudge=1

And high disapproval here seems to correlate well with high undecideds.  That may mean the pollster is making the same mistakes as 2012.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: queenmandy85 on February 01, 2020, 08:53:16 am
Last night on the PBS Newshour, David Brooks pointed out that a large number of Sanders supporters would not support any Democratic nominee other than Sanders. In 2016 they voted for President Trump. Deja vous?
I still think Sanders would bring on the greatest defeat for the Democratic party since George McGovern was crushed by President Nixon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 01, 2020, 09:24:11 am
I still think Sanders would bring on the greatest defeat for the Democratic party since George McGovern was crushed by President Nixon.
I remember when everyone was certain Obama was also McGovern.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: queenmandy85 on February 01, 2020, 09:48:46 am
I remember when everyone was certain Obama was also McGovern.
The way I remember it, they thought Obama was Lincoln. We all see things differently, I guess.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 01, 2020, 03:51:06 pm
So Trump gets to be interviewed by his buddy Sean Hannity during the Superbowl pregame show, and then has to deliver the state of the union speech Tuesday before the senate votes Wednesday. I bet he hates the timing on all that. I wonder if the word "impeachment" will surface during either of those gigs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 01, 2020, 11:22:47 pm
Let's not forget it took someone like Trump to address the things many Americans wanted addressed.  That should tell us how broken US politics are, and how out of touch many politicians in both parties are.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 01, 2020, 11:26:21 pm
Let's not forget it took someone like Trump to address the things many Americans wanted addressed.  That should tell us how broken US politics are, and how out of touch many politicians in both parties are.

It more tells us how destructive the rise of populism can be.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 02, 2020, 12:07:04 am
It more tells us how destructive the rise of populism can be.

Populism is on the rise because the elitist establishment politicians, on the left and right, aren't doing what the voters want.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 02, 2020, 12:17:06 am
Populism is on the rise because the elitist establishment politicians, on the left and right, aren't doing what the voters want.

And if established politicians become involved in following the endless myriad of what emanates from populism we will be forever lost. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 02, 2020, 12:39:06 am
And if established politicians become involved in following the endless myriad of what emanates from populism we will be forever lost.

I don't think that's true.  Voters don't want kids in cages, they just want their borders properly enforced.  They don't want their POTUS involved with foreign corruption either.  But if the choice is between a corrupt narcissistic POTUS who will address some of the things they want vs someone who won't, some will be desperate enough to choose the former.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 02, 2020, 12:48:23 am
I don't think that's true.  Voters don't want kids in cages, they just want their borders properly enforced.  They don't want their POTUS involved with foreign corruption either.  But if the choice is between a corrupt narcissistic POTUS who will address some of the things they want vs someone who won't, some will be desperate enough to choose the former.

Thanks for proving my point. It was populism that got the idiot where he is, and which could keep him there.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 02, 2020, 01:21:43 pm
Just heard a snippet from the Trump interview with Sean Hannity to be aired pre game Super Bowl. Donny was ranting on to say that he is PO'ed because Bloomberg wants to have a box to stand on during upcoming debates because is not a tall man. How presidential of Donny! I'm sure it will be 8.5 minutes of his typical nonsense so I've got the popcorn ready.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 02, 2020, 03:40:29 pm
OMG why do that to yourself...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 02, 2020, 03:52:03 pm
OMG why do that to yourself...

Good question. I guess I want to see how far down the rabbit hole the interview will go, especially with Hannity conducting it. Believe me I will have the channel changer in hand.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 04, 2020, 08:51:52 pm
As the SOTU speech carries on, Trump is lying out of his **** as expected. I await the fact checkers to total up the sum.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 04, 2020, 08:52:58 pm
 >:( >:( >:(

Four more years of this...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 04, 2020, 09:06:09 pm
>:( >:( >:(

Four more years of this...

As trump says "sanctuary cities" read "concentration camps"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 04, 2020, 09:43:35 pm
One hour and 18 minutes of pretty much complete bullshit. The red neck honky's got to their feet in support as they were instructed. And I lost a dollar bet on whether he would bring up impeachment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 04, 2020, 09:54:05 pm
I certainly concurred with Pelosi's gesture to rip up Trump's speech after she, and the rest of us non red necks, heard it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 04, 2020, 10:12:21 pm
One hour and 18 minutes of pretty much complete bullshit. The red neck honky's got to their feet in support as they were instructed. And I lost a dollar bet on whether he would bring up impeachment.

What is wrong with you?  1:18????
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 04, 2020, 10:14:48 pm
The medal of honor on Rush Limbaugh?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 05, 2020, 06:21:18 am
https://images.app.goo.gl/ACXv5mykpdeJ6WyG6
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on February 05, 2020, 09:30:19 am
One hour and 18 minutes of pretty much complete bullshit.

Damn, I was out last night and missed it. I really need to get my priorities right.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2020, 12:19:14 pm
What is wrong with you?  1:18????

It was a difficult trek but with a bunch of cussing and swearing and a few beers I made it through.

Oh if only I'd have had a copy of the speech to rip up. I think Nancy was cussing under her breath too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 05, 2020, 12:41:52 pm
One hour and 18 minutes of pretty much complete bullshit. The red neck honky's got to their feet in support as they were instructed. And I lost a dollar bet on whether he would bring up impeachment.


You are now our official resident masochist.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2020, 12:58:25 pm

You are now our official resident masochist.

I feel a need to keep an eye on the SOB. I guess it's because I live near the border.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2020, 01:17:28 pm
I had to tip my hat to Mitt Romney for the speech he gave regarding his decision on how he will vote on Trump.


Mitt Romney didn’t want to go through with it.

“This has been the most difficult decision I have ever had to make in my life,” he told me yesterday afternoon in his Senate office. Roughly 24 hours later, Romney would deliver a speech announcing that he was voting to convict President Donald Trump on the first article of impeachment—abuse of power. For weeks, the senator from Utah had sat silently in the impeachment trial alongside his 99 colleagues, reviewing the evidence at night and praying for guidance. The gravity of the moment weighed on him, as did the pressure from members of his own party to acquit their leader. As his conscience tugged at him, he said, the exercise took on a spiritual dimension.


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/02/romney-impeach-trump/606127/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 05, 2020, 03:13:20 pm
Romney always has seemed like a nice man, a true Mormon of the non polygamous kind.

Brave of him to do that, good for him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 05, 2020, 03:15:10 pm
Watched a bit of Trump's State of the Union.  I saw Rush get the medal of freedom, but didn't hear the name and didn't recognize him, thought it was an army vet or something.  Saw in the news today it was Rush i'm like Whaaaa?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2020, 03:26:35 pm
Watched a bit of Trump's State of the Union.  I saw Rush get the medal of freedom, but didn't hear the name and didn't recognize him, thought it was an army vet or something.  Saw in the news today it was Rush i'm like Whaaaa?

Have a listen to a few of Limbaugh's racist, redneck, extremist right wing rants and it shouldn't take long to see why this medal was so wrongly placed. And the sick and sad way in which it was presented: Malania pulling it out of her bra or somewhere since she was obviously positioned beside him, and putting it around his neck as the **** idiots who support trump got to their feet once again. Pardon me while I puke, once again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2020, 04:02:33 pm
Now that he's been acquitted which was expected. Trump tweets out a picture of himself with years flipping by below suggesting what he has talked about before namely getting rid of the two term limit so he can reign foevvah. Let's see, who has done that before in history? First name Adolph ring any bells?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 05, 2020, 04:13:43 pm
This man is king of the trolls.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2020, 05:29:38 pm
This man is king of the trolls.

Please refrain from referring to Trump as your "king" of anything. He'll take it seriously.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 05, 2020, 09:52:46 pm
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dhs-global-entry-trusted-traveler-new-york-ice-sanctuary-law

Trump bans NY State residents from Nexus

Pretty soon there will be punitive laws against Democrat States.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 05, 2020, 10:16:02 pm
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dhs-global-entry-trusted-traveler-new-york-ice-sanctuary-law

Trump bans NY State residents from Nexus

Pretty soon there will be punitive laws against Democrat States.

"In New York alone, last year ICE arrested 149 child predators, identified or rescued 105 victims of exploitation and human trafficking, arrested 230 gang members, and seized 6,487 pounds of illegal narcotics, including fentanyl and opioids," Wolf wrote. "In the vast majority of these cases, ICE relied on New York DMV records to fulfill its mission."

These politicians who set up sanctuary cities where they refuse to cooperate with ICE are hiding your average illegal immigrant but also hiding these drug traffickers, gang members, child predators, and human traffickers (some who smuggle under-age boys and girls over the border and use them for ****).  Why would anyone want to protect these types of people and keep them in the country illegally?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 05, 2020, 10:19:21 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WNpRK1xSmA

The large majority of illegal immigrants are just regular people, but some are bad people.  If you don't control the border and immigration and don't have law and order the bad come in and stay just like the good ones do.  That's why countries need to have control over who comes in and who gets to stay.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2020, 10:29:19 pm
"In New York alone, last year ICE arrested 149 child predators, identified or rescued 105 victims of exploitation and human trafficking, arrested 230 gang members, and seized 6,487 pounds of illegal narcotics, including fentanyl and opioids," Wolf wrote. "In the vast majority of these cases, ICE relied on New York DMV records to fulfill its mission."

These politicians who set up sanctuary cities where they refuse to cooperate with ICE are hiding your average illegal immigrant but also hiding these drug traffickers, gang members, child predators, and human traffickers (some who smuggle under-age boys and girls over the border and use them for ****).  Why would anyone want to protect these types of people and keep them in the country illegally?

Are you still trying to flog the Trump bullshit that dark skinned immigrants are causing the crime rate to increase more than white skinned native born Americans?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 05, 2020, 11:48:13 pm
Are you still trying to flog the Trump bullshit that dark skinned immigrants are causing the crime rate to increase more than white skinned native born Americans?

Uhh no.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 06, 2020, 03:43:37 am
Good luck with that....    they’ll be lucky just to impeach Trump.  In fact, it’s likely he’ll be exonerated by the senate.

Just as I predicted....    exoneration for the orange guy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 06, 2020, 05:25:05 am
So punishment for NY residents is a rational response?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 06, 2020, 11:47:45 am
So a misogynistic bigot who makes fun of the disabled gets the Medal of Freedom because he chain smoked himself into lung cancer and a single Republican senator takes an oath seriously and voted according to their conscience. Be proud America.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 06, 2020, 12:01:31 pm
And as if trump hadn't already demonstrated what an **** he is, he can now add crybaby to the list. I guess he is now letting off the steam his handlers wouldn't allow him during the SOTU malarkey yesterday.

BTW Donny, the impeachment tag remains by your name forever, so "total exoneration" is out of your reach.  :'(
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on February 06, 2020, 12:11:04 pm
As much I hated George Bush Jr., I could see his appeal to middle-America with his war-mongering, cowboy wannabe oil-loving ways.

What middle America see in this fat, orange New Yorker with ill-fitting suits, bad hair and a golden toilet really escapes me.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 06, 2020, 12:24:35 pm
I have long since ran out of fingers/toes counting up the lies in this latest rant. Now I just feel like I may puke.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 06, 2020, 12:55:18 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/1142157725943652353/pu/img/uOhpk1p3CVqxtEJw?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Click on the link.

Didn't someone say Trump wouldn't ever try to stay on past 2024 ?  More hints there.  He's likely not trolling.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 06, 2020, 01:01:39 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/1142157725943652353/pu/img/uOhpk1p3CVqxtEJw?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Click on the link.

Didn't someone say Trump wouldn't ever try to stay on past 2024 ?  More hints there.  He's likely not trolling.

I suspect he who said that is in fact a Trump supporter. I don't think Trump is trolling and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him, if he gets reelected, use his next four years to fiddle with the constitution to suit his longing to extend his power beyond president to dictator.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 06, 2020, 01:14:04 pm
Good old fact checking Canadian Daniel Dale just did a thing on CNN pointing out a number of lies Donny told just now during his "exoneration" speech. He could go on all day I suspect.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 06, 2020, 09:42:32 pm
Trump speaks at a prayer breakfast and spews hatred against a few of his foes. This is the same guy who said:

-Grab 'em by the ****
-I moved on her like a ****
-blood coming out of here wherever
-I would bomb the **** out of them
-If she wasn't my daughter I'd hate her
-African countries are shithole nations

Republicans say:
-Speaker Pelosi is classless

I hope at least the bacon and eggs were edible. Or do religious freaks love this prick?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 09, 2020, 11:39:07 am
(https://i.imgur.com/m3Eq4id.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 12, 2020, 12:13:17 pm
What kind of an F'ed up country would have the department of "justice" be licking the ass of that country's leader and interfering with the sentencing of a convicted criminal? If you're thinking perhaps Russia, think again.  Trump tells the DOJ to reduce his buddy Stone's sentence, who you can tell is a criminal just by looking at him (them)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 12, 2020, 01:19:10 pm
What kind of an F'ed up country would have the department of "justice" be licking the ass of that country's leader and interfering with the sentencing of a convicted criminal? If you're thinking perhaps Russia, think again.  Trump tells the DOJ to reduce his buddy Stone's sentence, who you can tell is a criminal just by looking at him (them)

The DOJ can’t reduce anything other than its request.
The whole prosecution team quit. It will be interesting to see what the judge thinks of this.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 12, 2020, 01:27:51 pm
The DOJ can’t reduce anything other than its request.
The whole prosecution team quit. It will be interesting to see what the judge thinks of this.

He got away with abuse of power even after being impeached for it, so now he's going to abuse it even more.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 12, 2020, 01:56:35 pm
He got away with abuse of power even after being impeached for it, so now he's going to abuse it even more.

He will certainly try but judges do the sentencing, not Trump or the DOJ.

It would be funnier than hell if the judge upped the sentence because of Trump's meddling and Barr acting as his toady.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 12, 2020, 04:28:49 pm
ALL HAIL KING DONALD, OF THE KINGDOM OF DONALDIA!!!!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 12, 2020, 04:43:16 pm
ALL HAIL KING DONALD, OF THE KINGDOM OF DONALDIA!!!!

Perhaps it's time for Americans to reread and hopefully comprehend Mein Kempf.

Politically, the president has certainly taken actions which are in many ways parallel to those of the early Nazi movement. As Evans rightly notes, his propaganda machine would be immediately familiar to Joseph Goebbels’s Nazi office. The recent executive order making administrative law judges political appointees subject to executive power cannot be seen as anything less than an attempt to bring the courts in line with the administration’s political ideology. The Nazis called this “Gleichschaltung,” or coordination, as they sought to co-opt government and private organizations. Even his management style has similarities to Hitler. Like Trump, Hitler was reluctant to surrender too much authority to one subordinate, and so his Cabinet (which he never called) was a den of backbiting and maneuvering underlings seeking the support of Hitler, who was the only one who decided policy. There are similarities with Trump, even if he has not achieved this level of dominance. Let’s again be clear: Trump is not Hitler; Hitler was arguably a far more astute politician with deeply held convictions and the means to turn a fledgling democracy into a totalitarian state, something that should be much more difficult here. Nonetheless, these historical comparisons are not hyperbolic and should at least give us pause.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/07/16/its-not-wrong-to-compare-trumps-america-to-the-holocaust-heres-why/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 12, 2020, 05:09:45 pm
He will certainly try but judges do the sentencing, not Trump or the DOJ.

It would be funnier than hell if the judge upped the sentence because of Trump's meddling and Barr acting as his toady.

What is not so funny is the DOJ agreeing to intervene in the case. I seem to recall hearing this phrase pertaining to the US as having three coequal branches of government.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 12, 2020, 05:12:07 pm
TRUMPERICA!!!! WHOOOOO!!!!!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 12, 2020, 05:21:57 pm
He got away with abuse of power even after being impeached for it, so now he's going to abuse it even more.

I think you're right.  He feels even more invincible.

The truth is that even if he were voted guilty of a crime by congress and removed from office, he would be immediately pardoned by Pence, just like Nixon was pardoned by Gerald Ford.  Every POTUS is invincible.  Scary.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 12, 2020, 07:01:33 pm
What is not so funny is the DOJ agreeing to intervene in the case. I seem to recall hearing this phrase pertaining to the US as having three coequal branches of government.

Looks like it was all BS.

Colbert got it about right when he said last night the only difference between the US and a banana republic is Trump doesn't eat fruit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 13, 2020, 12:51:12 pm
Well I'm not surprised that the **** of radio that the **** in chief decided to award a Medal of Freedom to during his recent SOTU speech is now making public homophobic comments about the gay man who is currently running to become the democratic nominee for POTUS. I looked up just exactly what this medal is awarded for and I fail to see/hear anything even close emanating from either of the first two you know what's. Might as well go ahead and mail a few out from the WH. I'm sure fat Kim, Putin and such deserve one too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 13, 2020, 01:54:01 pm
Just waiting for Hannity to get the Medal of Honour.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 13, 2020, 02:11:32 pm
Just waiting for Hannity to get the Medal of Honour.

Carlson is out of the running. He dared criticize trump for ordering that assassination thing in Iran a while ago. After all, how could you honor freedom if you don't think Donny should be able to go blow up whoever in the world he doesn't like today? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 13, 2020, 02:25:56 pm
Limbaugh stomps all over a man simply because he is gay, (which is allowed in the US), but then supports a "man" who admits to grabbing women by the ****, (which is not allowed in the US). I hate to say it this way but perhaps in this case cancer will remove a cancer.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 13, 2020, 03:26:42 pm
And while I'm at it let's recall: Trump used his phony "bone spurs" to get him out of military service, Limbaugh used an ingrown hair on his butt to get him out of it (qu'elle surprise, he had a pain in his arse). How Apropos!. And then this gay guy took leave from his office as a city mayor to go do military service and spent 7 months in Afghanistan where there was/is a war on. And then Bill Barr wades in to reduce sentencing for Roger Stone. I say we dig a swamp and start it off by throwing in Trump, Stone, and Barr.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 13, 2020, 07:55:50 pm
Grahamerica.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 13, 2020, 08:12:50 pm
Kelly now turning against him... and Barr making noises like he wants to get fired...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 13, 2020, 08:20:45 pm
I may have to take back some of my comments about Barr now that he is showing he has some balls by essentially telling trump to FO, perhaps sending him a message that there are supposed to be 3 coequal forms of government in the US. Of course trump won't get it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 14, 2020, 06:09:08 am
With BOTH of these idiots it's too little too late.  The times when these comments would have more impact are in the past.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 14, 2020, 07:43:48 am
I may have to take back some of my comments about Barr now that he is showing he has some balls by essentially telling trump to FO, perhaps sending him a message that there are supposed to be 3 coequal forms of government in the US. Of course trump won't get it.
Don't take anything back. He just understood that it would be impossible to have any credibility in the DOJ whatsoever if he was clearly taking orders from Trump's tweets. So he gets permission to criticize them, Trump immediately forgives him for it, and they continue their Banana Republic antics as planned.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 14, 2020, 09:52:12 pm
Don't take anything back. He just understood that it would be impossible to have any credibility in the DOJ whatsoever if he was clearly taking orders from Trump's tweets. So he gets permission to criticize them, Trump immediately forgives him for it, and they continue their Banana Republic antics as planned.

Yes I'm seeing that now, and guess what, I'm not surprised.
Thanks for the feedback.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 14, 2020, 09:55:34 pm
And something else that is a bit worrisome is that it seems that Trump's racist bullshit has worked it's way all the way down to first year grade school. I guess if you wanna rebuild Nazi Germany then of course focus on the youth.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/local/school-bullying-trump-words/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 16, 2020, 01:07:26 pm
Anybody else tuned into watch the Daytona 500? Trump is attending and so far has had Air Force 1 do a low pass over the track before landing and he's going to get his driver take him and Malania for a spin around the track before the actual race starts. Yee haw!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 16, 2020, 03:58:05 pm
Yes but thankfully I fell asleep
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 17, 2020, 01:32:17 pm
Re: Rush Lymphnode...
Well I'm not surprised that the **** of radio that the **** in chief decided to award a Medal of Freedom to during his recent SOTU speech is now making public homophobic comments about the gay man who is currently running to become the democratic nominee for POTUS.
Here's another take-away from that... Some republicans (such as Lindsey Graham and Lamar Alexander) have criticized Limbaugh's remarks. Yet Limbaugh's bigotry is not new... he has been making those types of remarks for quite some time. So where was their criticism when he was first awarded the medal of freedom? They could have expressed their displeasure back then. Yet the republicans were all applauding along like trained seals.

https://apnews.com/117be4fd845592a09fe8bd16f0e8112f
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 17, 2020, 02:13:43 pm
Re: Rush Lymphnode...Here's another take-away from that... Some republicans (such as Lindsey Graham and Lamar Alexander) have criticized Limbaugh's remarks. Yet Limbaugh's bigotry is not new... he has been making those types of remarks for quite some time. So where was their criticism when he was first awarded the medal of freedom? They could have expressed their displeasure back then. Yet the republicans were all applauding along like trained seals.

https://apnews.com/117be4fd845592a09fe8bd16f0e8112f

And now we see he uses a photo of Air Force 1 landing at Daytona showing packed spectator seats in the foreground that is actually a picture taken back in 2004 when Bush landed there. The actual video of Trump's arrival shows a lot of empty seats in the bleachers. Kinda takes us back to the failed attempt to jack up the numbers at Trump's inauguration which actual photos disproved. I'd say if you look up the word 'narcissist" in the Oxford there should be a photo of Trump. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-parscale-deletes-tweet-photo-actually-crowds-bush-2020-2

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 17, 2020, 03:42:52 pm
NASCAR crowds have been down overall the last few years. NASCAR people are also for the most part, Trump people.

The 6700  re tweets won't get deleted.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 17, 2020, 05:27:55 pm
oH DAMN

FORGOT THE RACE IS ON NOW
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 17, 2020, 05:37:09 pm
NASCAR crowds have been down overall the last few years. NASCAR people are also for the most part, Trump people.

The 6700  re tweets won't get deleted.

Nascar is down, MLB attendance down.  Negative growth in Canada in every sport but soccer, basketball, cricket.  People not having kids, and white people going the way of the dodo.  Little league down, swimming down, tennis down etc.  Peace out whitey
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 17, 2020, 06:11:36 pm
Hockey still doing pretty well in Canada but a lot of these sports are just so damn expensive, both to play and to watch at a major league level.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 17, 2020, 07:13:04 pm
Nascar is down, MLB attendance down.  Negative growth in Canada in every sport but soccer, basketball, cricket.  People not having kids, and white people going the way of the dodo.  Little league down, swimming down, tennis down etc.  Peace out whitey

I tell people this and they just stare at me.  Rogers paid $4B for NHL rights... for a property with negative demographics.  I suppose it's not in the media's interest to report on the decline on one of their last cash cows.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 17, 2020, 07:13:58 pm
Ryan Newman is a driver I feel personally connected to.  Signs indicate that he was badly hurt in that final lap crash, or worse.  :(
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 17, 2020, 07:31:55 pm
Well they have Hockey Night in Punjabi now.  Dare an immigrant actually watch in english or french and try to learn the friggin language.

Hey but at least they're enjoying our hockey culture i guess.  It's a start.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 17, 2020, 07:33:31 pm
read in the news that single household's outnumber family households for the first time in Canada's history.  The family is dead, Canadians not having kids, young women adopting dogs as their children. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 17, 2020, 07:35:16 pm
Ryan Newman is a driver I feel personally connected to.  Signs indicate that he was badly hurt in that final lap crash, or worse.  :(

Didn't watch the race. Sorry to hear that. Auto racing is much safer than it used to be but not without risk.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 17, 2020, 07:39:36 pm
F1 attendance and viewership is up but like soccer it has a world audience with races in 24 countries on five continents.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 17, 2020, 10:45:06 pm
I was hoping to hear something of at least a little substance from John Bolton today but it turns out all he wants to do is just flog his book. Bill Barr of course will not resign regardless of the fact over 2000 DOJ employees have asked him to do so. Charges could soon be laid against Giuliani relating to the Ukraine scandal. Donny is doing a very good job of showing what a real "swamp" actually contains. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 18, 2020, 10:31:05 am
I was hoping to hear something of at least a little substance from John Bolton today but it turns out all he wants to do is just flog his book. Bill Barr of course will not resign regardless of the fact over 2000 DOJ employees have asked him to do so.
Technically I think that's a list of former DOJ employees, covering people who worked under both Democratic and Republican administrations. (Not that I blame current employees for not signing the petition, since that could destroy their career, and hinder some of tha actual valid work they are doing.)

Another group that seems to have some concerns... the "Federal Judges Association" is holding an emergency meeting over Trump's interference in the legal system.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/02/17/roger-stone-sentence-judges-worried-political-interference/4788155002/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 18, 2020, 01:44:45 pm
Trump commutes sentences or grants pardons to 11 criminals all in one day today. What, is his swamp not already full enough of scum?

In all, Trump granted some form of executive clemency to 11 individuals Tuesday.

Trump commuted the remainder of Blagojevich’s 14-year prison term. the Illinois Democrat had begun serving that sentence in 2013 after he was found guilty of attempting to trade the U.S. Senate seat vacated by Barack Obama for money or favors.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/18/trump-expected-to-grant-clemency-to-rod-blagojevich-bernard-kerik.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 18, 2020, 05:07:50 pm
Trump has now declared himself the chief cop. Good. Give him a proper uniform (including a hat to keep the hairpiece in place) and let him go out and write traffic tickets to get some experience in the job.  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 18, 2020, 06:58:38 pm
Trump commutes sentences or grants pardons to 11 criminals all in one day today. What, is his swamp not already full enough full enough of scum?

In all, Trump granted some form of executive clemency to 11 individuals Tuesday.

Trump commuted the remainder of Blagojevich’s 14-year prison term. the Illinois Democrat had begun serving that sentence in 2013 after he was found guilty of attempting to trade the U.S. Senate seat vacated by Barack Obama for money or favors.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/18/trump-expected-to-grant-clemency-to-rod-blagojevich-bernard-kerik.html
Trump needs him in his cabinet.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 18, 2020, 07:41:16 pm
Trump is on a pardoning blitz!!   Need more evidence that the USofA is more banana republic than democracy?   I’m sure you won’t have long to wait....

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5467699
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on February 18, 2020, 08:13:56 pm
Trump is on a pardoning blitz!!   Need more evidence that the USofA is more banana republic than democracy?   I’m sure you won’t have long to wait....

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5467699

Sure, but what kind of socks does he wear?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 18, 2020, 08:32:10 pm
Sure, but what kind of socks does he wear?

On his feet, or his head?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 18, 2020, 08:50:00 pm
POTUS pardons should be banned.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 18, 2020, 09:04:20 pm
POTUS pardons should be banned.

Certainly they should in the manner in which Trump is using them. Perhaps if they were used to offset the racial bias in their judicial system then perhaps they would be more valid.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 18, 2020, 09:15:57 pm
POTUS pardons should be banned.

It's a throwback to monarchy which constitutional monarchies no longer allow.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 18, 2020, 09:18:02 pm
Certainly they should in the manner in which Trump is using them. Perhaps if they were used to offset the racial bias in their judicial system then perhaps they would be more valid.

No, all of them.  Obama went on  a blitz too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 18, 2020, 09:41:33 pm
It's a throwback to monarchy which constitutional monarchies no longer allow.

Well Trump has now referred to himself a s a "king", so those pardons will keep on unabated I'm sure. Of course only for wealthy, white, honky criminals that rip off old ladies and such. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 20, 2020, 02:57:05 pm
Anybody else have the "pleasure" of listening to Trump babbling on today after Roger Stone's sentencing? He attacked the courts in general, the judge and a particular juror specifically, and and made a complete babbling **** of himself. He may not drink but I swear to god he must be on some mind warping drugs. Or is it simply dementia setting in? Another four years and he'll be naming the USAF the Luftwaffe. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 20, 2020, 05:46:25 pm
Why do that to yourself?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 20, 2020, 05:57:06 pm
Anybody else have the "pleasure" of listening to Trump babbling on today after Roger Stone's sentencing? He attacked the courts in general, the judge and a particular juror specifically, and and made a complete babbling **** of himself. He may not drink but I swear to god he must be on some mind warping drugs. Or is it simply dementia setting in? Another four years and he'll be naming the USAF the Luftwaffe.

Nope. It isn’t a pleasure and I’m surprised that you are still surprised or outraged at anything the man does. I’ve tuned him out, changed the channel, can’t be bothered with him anymore. Feels much better that way. Maybe Americans will come to their senses or maybe they won’t. Nothing I can do about it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 20, 2020, 08:33:26 pm
Nope. It isn’t a pleasure and I’m surprised that you are still surprised or outraged at anything the man does. I’ve tuned him out, changed the channel, can’t be bothered with him anymore. Feels much better that way. Maybe Americans will come to their senses or maybe they won’t. Nothing I can do about it.

Not much I can do about it either. I guess it's just that I find it difficult to ignore a man who leads our bordering neighbor country who has his finger on the button, is the commander in chief of the most powerful military on the planet, and is crazier than a shithouse mouse. Maybe there are some US citizens on this site we can convince not to vote for such a man next time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 20, 2020, 09:03:16 pm
Not much I can do about it either. I guess it's just that I find it difficult to ignore a man who leads our bordering neighbor country who has his finger on the button, is the commander in chief of the most powerful military on the planet, and is crazier than a shithouse mouse. Maybe there are some US citizens on this site we can convince not to vote for such a man next time.

I don't think it is healthy. My wife has a thing about Trump and is always bringing up his latest outrage. I just tell her I'm not interested, why is she shocked at anything he does anymore and it is bad for her blood pressure (which it is) and I'm not letting him raise mine.

Trump is an embarrassment as a president and a human being but only Americans can do anything about it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 21, 2020, 12:02:48 pm
However, if venting works for you, please carry on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 21, 2020, 12:22:07 pm
However, if venting works for you, please carry on.

I guess if the US news channels I flick around on ignored him more, I would happily ignore him more. Of course that's not likely, however I find a little venting after I see/hear his latest escapade does help restore my BP to normal levels. I hasten to add I avoid FOX faux news like the plague.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 21, 2020, 01:12:34 pm
MAGAmanGraham - such focused handiwork!

(https://i.imgur.com/3SlF4rU.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 21, 2020, 04:47:51 pm
Wonder how many bird brain jokes this will generate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 21, 2020, 10:43:11 pm
Trump speaks out today that he is upset that a movie made by a damn South Korean was awarded the Oscar for best movie. He prefers "Gone With The Wind". Rego, he prefers to be entertained by images of slavery. Qu'elle surprise.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/20/politics/trump-south-korea-best-picture-parasite/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 25, 2020, 02:35:49 pm
Well it seems the Russians are back on board to help their buddy Donny get reelected in November. He may well need them, even though he tries to deny their existence, since he may not have stock prices to brag about any time soon. And of course the heavily GOP rigged EC will also take care of him again.
Four more years boys!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 26, 2020, 03:02:00 pm
I've got the popcorn ready to go in a couple of hours when Trump is due to speak as to his plans as to how to deal with the Corona virus. He better have a good one or else his one previous claim to fame, the markets, will continue to nosedive.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 26, 2020, 04:47:38 pm
Another day, another shooting in the US, this time in Milwaukee. I wonder if Trump will include some words of support for the NRA today while he will likely tell people the way around the Corona virus will be to buy some more stocks since his one main bragging point has spun into the dirt.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 28, 2020, 09:22:20 pm
An outbreak of a serious virus wraps around the world, including the US, Trump lies out his ****, as per usual, as to the current impact on home turf he puts his VP Pence in charge of overseeing dealing with the issue, and what is he doing as we speak, he's off to Florida to fund raise, charging people tp have dinner/take pictures with him. I hope both of those scumbags get the virus, and die slow deaths. I would be happy to throw their bodies in a dumpster and slam the lid closed.
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JBG on March 01, 2020, 10:27:11 am
From the December 20, 1918 New York Times (link). 7,002 Influenza Cases In a Week. Boston, December 14 (1918).-
Quote from: New York Times
The present outbreak of influenza in Massachusetts is only one-seventh as severe as the previous one, three months ago, according to figures given out today by the State Department of Health. For the present week 7,002 new cases were reported In the State with 99 deaths.

Maybe a bit of hysteria today?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 01, 2020, 12:04:19 pm
From the December 20, 1918 New York Times (link). 7,002 Influenza Cases In a Week. Boston, December 14 (1918).-
Maybe a bit of hysteria today?

Not Covid 19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 01, 2020, 01:32:44 pm
Trump gets his timing a little F'ed up yet again as during his recent visit to India, he praises PM Narendra Modi for his work toward providing "religious freedom", while at the very same time some ten miles away Hindus and Muslims are fighting and killing each other. The tension was over Modi's new CAB law (Citizenship Amendment Bill) which essentially takes away the rights of ~200 million Muslim's from becoming citizens.
I guess no real surprise here since he admits he also loves Fat Kim.

India is home to 200 million Muslims. Under Prime Minister Narendra Modi, they have faced mounting threats to their status in the majority-Hindu country. And on Wednesday, they were walloped by a new worrisome development: The upper house of India’s Parliament passed the Citizenship Amendment Bill (CAB).

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/12/12/21010975/india-muslim-citizenship-bill-national-register

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/2/25/21152829/trump-india-modi-muslim-hindu-violence
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 04, 2020, 03:51:24 pm
The "Commander-in-Tweet" seems to be now pooping his pants since "Mini Mike" an actual billionaire, has thrown his support behind "Sleepy Joe", an actual experienced politician. His latest tweet storm shows his ire where he also takes a shot at Tim O'brien who worked for the 'Mini Mike" campaign. He was the guy if you recall who Trump tried to sue after he pointed out that Trump was worth nowhere near what he claimed, and of course the suit failed. I'm sure all this will keep Donny up nights concocting even more nicknames for his adversaries.

   " President Trump also singles out a Bloomberg campaign adviser, Tim O’Brien, whom Trump unsuccessfully sued for libel over a decade ago.
    But Trump’s taunts ignore the potential impact Bloomberg’s billions could have on the 2020 presidential race if he decides to help bankroll the Democratic nominee with an outside spending group"

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/04/trump-mocks-bloomberg-after-exit-from-the-2020-presidential-race.html. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 05, 2020, 07:53:13 pm
And of course we now see the nepotism emerging from the Trump swamp shithole. Is anybody surprised? Probably noone with a brain in their head.

Jared Kushner sells stake in real estate company after value skyrockets thanks to Trump tax cuts
The value of Kushner's stake in Cadre jumped by more than 500% after it benefited from the tax cuts he lobbied for

https://www.salon.com/2020/03/05/jared-kushner-sells-stake-in-real-estate-company-after-value-skyrockets-thanks-to-trump-tax-cuts/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 05, 2020, 07:56:50 pm
That country is, sadly, on a trajectory to becoming a shithole.  Their leaders are now fully invested in driving the country down... their poor choices will soon bring them doom - it's can't NOT have an effect.  They had excellent leaders for most of the 20th century, now clowns.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 06, 2020, 04:11:46 pm
Just watching clips of Donny during his current visit at the CDC. Of course he chose to wear one of his "gag me" hats. His total lack of focus indicated that either he is pissed off at not being the center of attention, he doesn't really give a fiddly arse ****, or his dementia is continuing to deepen. Probably more likely a combination of all three.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 06, 2020, 11:44:52 pm
Trump says today during his visit at the CDC that "perhaps I should have taken over this instead of running for POTUS" When did this idiot become an infectious disease doctor? He claims he's an expert. Can Americans not see that his head is completely ****?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 07, 2020, 05:16:03 am
I saw it too.

You really should stop watching him.  I cut back drastically on US news so when I check in, his decline is noticeable from Last Time I watched.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 07, 2020, 08:05:05 am
I decided to not pay attention until Bernie is president. So today I will spend listening to a lot of McCoy Tyner's (RIP) excellent block chords, particularly those from the JC4.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 07, 2020, 09:17:11 am
I decided to not pay attention until Bernie is president. So today I will spend listening to a lot of McCoy Tyner's (RIP) excellent block chords, particularly those from the JC4.

I am reluctant to make predictions, but it's starting to look like Trump beats Biden in November   :-\
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on March 07, 2020, 09:48:12 am
I decided to not pay attention until Bernie is president.

I think Bernie's chances of becoming President are fairly low, Joe will most likely get the nomination.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 07, 2020, 01:45:33 pm
I think Bernie's chances of becoming President are fairly low, Joe will most likely get the nomination.

Apparently Joe just racked up $22 mil. in the last 5 days so it seems his support is building. Bernie not so much, plus he seems to have gone into attack mode against Joe, while Joe is taking the high road of suggesting the campaign should not move toward tearing the party apart. Now, as I've said before , I hope he picks the right running mate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on March 16, 2020, 08:41:10 pm
Biden is a shittie candidate. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 16, 2020, 08:45:45 pm
Biden is a shittie candidate.

He has the best chance to dump trump. That makes him a great candidate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 18, 2020, 11:55:16 am
Biden is a shittie candidate.
Ummm.... why? And compared to whom?

(Assuming your goal is to see Trump defeated.)

Lets compare Biden with Sanders:

- Currently, in head-to-head matchups, Biden beats Trump by 6.4%... Sanders beats Trump by 5%. Both are polling better than Trump, but Biden has a slight advantage. (Even when the Democratic field was more crowded, Biden usually had the best polling numbers among Democratic candidates.)

- Biden appears to be polling very well among minorities (a group that heavily supported Obama, but sometimes sat out of the 2016 election.)

- On average, moderate candidates tend to do better during elections than more 'extreme' politicians (both because they can appeal to middle-of-the-road voters, and because they tend to depress people voting for the opposition.)

- He appeals well to older voters who, like it or not, are more reliable voters than younger ones.

Now, I admit, I do dislike Biden's age, and I'm sure the Republicans will certainly attack him on that. But then, the only other Candidate with any real support is Sanders, and he's got a ton of skeletons in his closet too.

Overall, I probably would have preferred someone like Booker, or Klobuchar, or even Warren... but Biden does appear to be well-positioned to take on Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on March 25, 2020, 11:41:44 am
I hate to pull an Omni here....   but the only way to avoid catastrophe in the USA is If Trump is pushed aside and ignored by those who are in charge of the safety aspects, or he’s “incapacitated” in some way.   He’s going to be the death of hundreds of thousands if his “plan” to get everyone acting as if nothing is wrong by Easter actually happens.

Canada needs to be buying its food from central/South America immediately, so we can shut the border and still have a food supply.  I wonder if Canada has any sort of contingencies that don’t involve the USA....?   Probably not.



I sound like a doomsdayer....   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 25, 2020, 12:16:31 pm
I hate to pull an Omni here....   but the only way to avoid catastrophe in the USA is If Trump is pushed aside and ignored by those who are in charge of the safety aspects, or he’s “incapacitated” in some way.   He’s going to be the death of hundreds of thousands if his “plan” to get everyone acting as if nothing is wrong by Easter actually happens.

Canada needs to be buying its food from central/South America immediately, so we can shut the border and still have a food supply.  I wonder if Canada has any sort of contingencies that don’t involve the USA....?   Probably not.

I sound like a doomsdayer....

I think a big risk is Americans themselves.  Many tend to be ignorant and uniformed. Trump is one of these types. I can see a lot of Americans not paying attention to the news or ignoring the social distancing and self-isolation.  Like all those people on the beaches in Florida.  I think no matter what the feds do Americans will screw this up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 25, 2020, 12:18:15 pm
I hate to pull an Omni here....   but the only way to avoid catastrophe in the USA is If Trump is pushed aside and ignored by those who are in charge of the safety aspects, or he’s “incapacitated” in some way.   He’s going to be the death of hundreds of thousands if his “plan” to get everyone acting as if nothing is wrong by Easter actually happens.

Canada needs to be buying its food from central/South America immediately, so we can shut the border and still have a food supply.  I wonder if Canada has any sort of contingencies that don’t involve the USA....?   Probably not.



I sound like a doomsdayer....

States and cities are already ignoring Trump and will continue to do so regardless of he says.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on March 25, 2020, 12:26:14 pm
States and cities are already ignoring Trump and will continue to do so regardless of he says.

As Graham says, people are dumb.    Graham is wrong when he says “whatever the feds do won’t matter though.  That’s idiotic.  Of course it matters.   They are going to listen to Trump.  That will be enough people to spread this like wildfire.

Trump’s own appointed expert (Fuci?) had to say it’s not his job to jump in front of the microphone whenever Trump speaks.  That comment was very telling.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 25, 2020, 12:26:34 pm
I hate to pull an Omni here....   but the only way to avoid catastrophe in the USA is If Trump is pushed aside and ignored by those who are in charge of the safety aspects, or he’s “incapacitated” in some way.   He’s going to be the death of hundreds of thousands if his “plan” to get everyone acting as if nothing is wrong by Easter actually happens.

Canada needs to be buying its food from central/South America immediately, so we can shut the border and still have a food supply.  I wonder if Canada has any sort of contingencies that don’t involve the USA....?   Probably not.



I sound like a doomsdayer....

The border is shut to non essential travel. Supply chains such as food etc. are not restricted so as long as the US is able to produce food, we will be able to buy it.
As to "pulling an Omni" please go ahead, fill your boots. My concern is that what will we ever do if Trump gets voted out and disappears? :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on March 25, 2020, 01:07:24 pm
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/03/24/if-trump-really-wants-to-reopen-the-economy-he-should-lead-the-way-146527

Quote
If Trump is as medically savvy as he claimed to be while touring the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta earlier this month—“I like this stuff. I really get it,” he said—and it’s as epidemiologically sound as he makes it out to be to abandon the current restrictions, Trump can show us the way. All we should request in return is his promise to refuse a ventilatior should he get sick enough to need one.


Politico editorial writer calls for the death of Trump, at least indirectly...   

We’re all going “full-Omni” now!!   ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 25, 2020, 04:29:05 pm
Graham is wrong when he says “whatever the feds do won’t matter though.  That’s idiotic.  Of course it matters.

I didn't say that, i said "I think no matter what the feds do Americans will screw this up".  In other words, the feds could do everything right (which will help), but many Americans aren't going to listen to certain warnings and are going to make the situation worse for the US, and that will be impossible to avoid.  You can't fix stupid.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on March 29, 2020, 08:05:35 pm
I always think the dirtbag can't possibly go any lower, but he never disappoints. 

He's sending aid to Florida and allowing New Yorkers die because of Gov. Cuomo.  Then he goes on about his ratings and Meghan Markle while body bags are filling up outside New York hospitals.

Yes, he's sadistic narcissist and it won't change.  I get that, but people still support this??  It makes me lose hope in humanity.

**** every single one of those MAGAts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 29, 2020, 08:19:40 pm
He's sending aid to Florida and allowing New Yorkers die because of Gov. Cuomo.  Then he goes on about his ratings and Meghan Markle while body bags are filling up outside New York hospitals.

I tried to find a story on this.  Link?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on March 29, 2020, 08:28:49 pm
Quote
Florida has been an exception in its dealings with the stockpile: The state submitted a request on March 11 for 430,000 surgical masks, 180,000 N95 respirators, 82,000 face shields and 238,000 gloves, among other supplies — and received a shipment with everything three days later, according to figures from the state’s Division of Emergency Management. It received an identical shipment on March 23, according to the division, and is awaiting a third.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/desperate-for-medical-equipment-states-encounter-a-beleaguered-national-stockpile/2020/03/28/1f4f9a0a-6f82-11ea-aa80-c2470c6b2034_story.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 01, 2020, 05:55:39 pm
Trump and co. handling of the corona issue has demonstrated a level of arrogance, narcissism, and ignorance previously unseen. The only appropriate outcome would be for Trump and his bum **** buddy Pence to contract the virus and die. When they are buried I will show my respect by taking a **** on their graves.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 01, 2020, 07:20:52 pm
You are letting them get to you.  Be patient...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 02, 2020, 04:10:21 pm
Trump and co. handling of the corona issue has demonstrated a level of arrogance, narcissism, and ignorance previously unseen. The only appropriate outcome would be for Trump and his bum **** buddy Pence to contract the virus and die. When they are buried I will show my respect by taking a **** on their graves.

If you think being critical of trump is dumb, then you must be really dumb.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 02, 2020, 04:12:51 pm
You are letting them get to you.  Be patient...

Hopefully his current childish approach to such a serious issue has sealed his fate come November.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 03, 2020, 11:00:28 am
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/03/politics/navy-hospital-ship-comfort-new-york-coronavirus/index.html

Trump's hospital ship has arrived !

Only 20 people there out of 1000 beds though... because THEY WON'T ALLOW CORONAVIRUS PATIENTS ABOARD.  So you have to be tested before you can go.

Yeah.

It's ok though - Don is commissioning new ships to be built... 3-5 years away
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 04, 2020, 05:01:12 pm
Well I watched almost 1/2 of the press conference.  None of this will stick to him, I'm convinced. 

"There will be a lot of death, unfortunately, but at lot less death than if this wasn't done."

So a complete incompetent, who is also politically astute can always convince his adherents that he did the right thing...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 07, 2020, 04:59:45 pm
Just listening to trumpty dumpty trotting out the same horse **** asd ususal. Still trying to flog the idea of how he has tested more people thaqn any country in the world when in fact S.Korea has tested ~double the numbers per capita and they did it a hell of a lot sooner. Yep, \i'm pissed off sat this lying sleeze bag once again!
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 07, 2020, 07:24:31 pm
Just listening to trumpty dumpty trotting out the same horse **** asd ususal. Still trying to flog the idea of how he has tested more people thaqn any country in the world when in fact S.Korea has tested ~double the numbers per capita and they did it a hell of a lot sooner. Yep, \i'm pissed off sat this lying sleeze bag once again!

They have tested more in total but way behind on tests per capita. Canada has tested 50% more per million population. Canada 9181. US 6271. S.Korea 9310. He isn't lying, he is just full of ****.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 08, 2020, 06:32:43 pm
Well at least Trumpy was much quieter today as he doled out his lies. Maybe he had a dose of Hydroxy before the QA period.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 08, 2020, 07:08:48 pm
Trump says he doesn't remember if he was briefed regarding the report issued by Peter Navarro regarding the Corona outbreak. Well I mean it only discussed the possibility of a world wide outbreak of a deadly disease, but who can remember all these trivial things! Especially when there is campaigning to deal with.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on April 10, 2020, 09:21:59 am
Just listening to trumpty dumpty trotting out the same horse **** asd ususal. Still trying to flog the idea of how he has tested more people thaqn any country in the world when in fact S.Korea has tested ~double the numbers per capita and they did it a hell of a lot sooner. Yep, \i'm pissed off sat this lying sleeze bag once again!
In terms of raw numbers, they have tested more people.  They also have tests that provide results in 15 minutes.  Not everything is about Trump.  Not everything is an outrage.  Is there a topic for Outrage Culture! 😀
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 10, 2020, 11:27:43 am
Is there a topic for Outrage Culture! 😀

Great idea.

https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/the-world/grrrrrr-!-outrage-culture-!/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 11, 2020, 12:09:19 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/tN1VsxF.png)

such a solemn day desire... for happiness!  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 11, 2020, 01:18:16 pm
In terms of raw numbers, they have tested more people.  They also have tests that provide results in 15 minutes.  Not everything is about Trump.  Not everything is an outrage.  Is there a topic for Outrage Culture! 😀

In per capita terms the US still lags behind S. Korea. In terms of reaction time the US still lags behind S. Korea. Trump ignored the warnings from his own people and assumed he had the medical/scientific knowledge on the subject to assume it would magically disappear by Easter when the weather warms up. How much more blatant example of stupid do you need for it ti sink in?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on April 11, 2020, 01:24:45 pm
In per capita terms the US still lags behind S. Korea. In terms of reaction time the US still lags behind S. Korea. Trump ignored the warnings from his own people and assumed he had the medical/scientific knowledge on the subject to assume it would magically disappear by Easter when the weather warms up. How much more blatant example of stupid do you need for it ti sink in?
You’re right they do lag.  The reason for that was initially the CDC wanted to handle all testing,  similar to they they have in previous events.  Thankfully testing was opened up to all labs including private labs.  If this would’ve been the case from the outset, testing would have been significantly better and faster.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 11, 2020, 02:13:28 pm
You’re right they do lag.  The reason for that was initially the CDC wanted to handle all testing,  similar to they they have in previous events.  Thankfully testing was opened up to all labs including private labs.  If this would’ve been the case from the outset, testing would have been significantly better and faster.

And also if Trump hadn't dismantled the NSC's health security directorate back in 2018.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on April 12, 2020, 09:28:00 am
And also if Trump hadn't dismantled the NSC's health security directorate back in 2018.
No, that’s fake news, which has been debunked thoroughly.  Nothing was dismantled, however offices were amalgamated.  It’s sad that these types of conspiracy theories still get spread.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 12, 2020, 09:31:33 am
Cite, Shady?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on April 12, 2020, 09:41:14 am
Cite, Shady?
Sure.

No, the White House didn’t ‘dissolve’ its pandemic response office.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 12, 2020, 02:14:44 pm
Sure.

No, the White House didn’t ‘dissolve’ its pandemic response office.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/

'Gross misjudgment': Experts say Trump's decision to disband pandemic team hindered coronavirus response

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/03/18/coronavirus-did-president-trumps-decision-disband-global-pandemic-office-hinder-response/5064881002/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 12, 2020, 03:20:15 pm
Throughout January, as Mr. Trump repeatedly played down the seriousness of the virus and focused on other issues, an array of figures inside his government — from top White House advisers to experts deep in the cabinet departments and intelligence agencies — identified the threat, sounded alarms and made clear the need for aggressive action.

A week after the first coronavirus case had been identified in the United States, and six long weeks before President Trump finally took aggressive action to confront the danger the nation was facing — a pandemic that is now forecast to take tens of thousands of American lives — Dr. Mecher was urging the upper ranks of the nation’s public health bureaucracy to wake up and prepare for the possibility of far more drastic action.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/us/politics/coronavirus-trump-response.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 12, 2020, 07:22:33 pm
That looks like an excellent read.  I am really interested right now in the shape of post-mortem examination of what went wrong, and how that examination will play out in the public sphere.

The video of the pandemic team announcement convinced me that it was broken up, but let me read that.  Unfortunately it's paywalled so I have to wait to read it :(
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Granny on April 13, 2020, 03:50:56 am
In per capita terms the US still lags behind S. Korea. In terms of reaction time the US still lags behind S. Korea. Trump ignored the warnings from his own people and assumed he had the medical/scientific knowledge on the subject to assume it would magically disappear by Easter when the weather warms up. How much more blatant example of stupid do you need for it ti sink in?

Trump isn't stupid.
He just lacks human feelings for other people, beyond what they can do for him. Some old people dying don't matter to him.
Case in point: Many undocumented workers, for whom Trump has shown great antipathy and callous disregard, are now deemed "essential service" workers - farm workers, cleaning staff, etc.
Oh, the irony!
It's all about what is expedient for him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 13, 2020, 12:48:40 pm
Trump isn't stupid.
He just lacks human feelings for other people, beyond what they can do for him. Some old people dying don't matter to him.
Case in point: Many undocumented workers, for whom Trump has shown great antipathy and callous disregard, are now deemed "essential service" workers - farm workers, cleaning staff, etc.
Oh, the irony!
It's all about what is expedient for him.

Well the latest news is announcing that at least Trump isn't stupid enough to fire Faucci, contradicting what he tweeted out yesterday.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 13, 2020, 05:19:44 pm
And so the latest WH briefing starts out with Faucci doing a little Trump ass kissing, perhaps to calm the waves over his comments that lives could have been saved had trump acted sooner, and then trump goes off on a wild political/campaign tangent, a lot of BS, a lot of attacks on Dems. Joe Biden, the press, and completely useless crap with regard to any moving forward on helping the current situation. What a creepshow. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on April 13, 2020, 05:34:17 pm
Trump plays back the words of the mainstream media from January and February downplaying the virus at today’s briefing.  He also played back Democrats own words from January, February and March downplaying the virus.  It was glorious!   :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on April 13, 2020, 05:36:22 pm
And so the latest WH briefing starts out with Faucci doing a little Trump ass kissing, perhaps to calm the waves over his comments that lives could have been saved had trump acted sooner, and then trump goes off on a wild political/campaign tangent, a lot of BS, a lot of attacks on Dems. Joe Biden, the press, and completely useless crap with regard to any moving forward on helping the current situation. What a creepshow.
Why can’t he attack Dems?  They attack him.  Fauci had to set the record straight and scolded the media for playing politics.  You know you’ve done wrong when Fauci gets pissed off.  Heckuva job mainstream media!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 13, 2020, 05:37:11 pm
Trump plays back the words of the mainstream media from January and February downplaying the virus at today’s briefing.  He also played back Democrats own words from January, February and March downplaying the virus.  It was glorious!   :D

Your buddy trump lied out his ****. It was enraging. Total propoganda session, as usual.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 13, 2020, 05:39:18 pm
Why can’t he attack Dems?  They attack him.  Fauci had to set the record straight and scolded the media for playing politics.  You know you’ve done wrong when Fauci gets pissed off.  Heckuva job mainstream media!

So you don't think had the US acted earlier lives could have been saved? That's just plain wrong.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on April 13, 2020, 05:39:39 pm
Your buddy trump lied out his ****. It was enraging. Total propoganda session, as usual.
Lied about what?  Regardless, notice how New York has more beds and ventilators then they know what to do with?  Looks like the mainstream media moved on from that fake news subject.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on April 13, 2020, 05:42:19 pm
So you don't think had the US acted earlier lives could have been saved? That's just plain wrong.
If any country had acted sooner, lives could’ve been saved.  There was no recommendation for such mitigation from health experts at that time.  Hell, if everyone would’ve shut down everything in December, the crisis may have been avoided almost completely.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 13, 2020, 05:44:36 pm
Lied about what?  Regardless, notice how New York has more beds and ventilators then they know what to do with?  Looks like the mainstream media moved on from that fake news subject.

Sorry, wrong again shady.

'Scotch tape and baling wire': How some hospitals and companies are responding to meet America's ventilator shortage

In New York City, doctors at Mount Sinai Health System have repurposed machines used to treat sleep apnea to help some COVID-19 patients when ventilators are in short supply.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/04/08/coronavirus-ventilator-shortage-hospitals-diy/2957847001/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 13, 2020, 05:54:11 pm
If any country had acted sooner, lives could’ve been saved.  There was no recommendation for such mitigation from health experts at that time.  Hell, if everyone would’ve shut down everything in December, the crisis may have been avoided almost completely.

Except trump continued to ignore warnings into January and February.

The group intended to present Trump with their plan after he returned from a trip to India—a February 14, 2020, memo prepared with the National Security Council went over guidelines like canceling sporting events and issuing stay-at-home directives nationwide—but on February 25, 2020, Dr. Nancy Messonnier, director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, put out a public warning that echoed the task force's plan but infuriated Trump as it impacted the stock market.
Instead of conducting a meeting with the task force about the need for social distancing, Trump instead had a briefing on February 26, 2020, where he replaced Dr. Alex Azar, the secretary of Health and Human Services, as the head of the coronavirus task force with Vice President Mike Pence, with a focus on controlling the message so as not to impact the economy.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/04/11/report-trump-ignored-pleas-to-put-social-distancing-practices-in-place-warnings-of-a-pandemic/#57cd3d19751f
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on April 13, 2020, 06:38:03 pm
Sorry, wrong again shady.

'Scotch tape and baling wire': How some hospitals and companies are responding to meet America's ventilator shortage

In New York City, doctors at Mount Sinai Health System have repurposed machines used to treat sleep apnea to help some COVID-19 patients when ventilators are in short supply.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/04/08/coronavirus-ventilator-shortage-hospitals-diy/2957847001/
But there is no shortage.  New York isn’t using anywhere close to the amount of ventilators.  States like Washington, Oregon and California are shipping ventilators to other states that might need them, because they don’t.  Just more fake news.  All because orange man bad.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 13, 2020, 06:39:58 pm
Trump plays back the words of the mainstream media from January and February downplaying the virus at today’s briefing.  He also played back Democrats own words from January, February and March downplaying the virus.  It was glorious!   :D
Why should people who are not receiving national security briefings treat it seriously if the guy receiving national security briefings is saying it's no big deal?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on April 13, 2020, 06:41:30 pm
Except trump continued to ignore warnings into January and February.

The group intended to present Trump with their plan after he returned from a trip to India—a February 14, 2020, memo prepared with the National Security Council went over guidelines like canceling sporting events and issuing stay-at-home directives nationwide—but on February 25, 2020, Dr. Nancy Messonnier, director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, put out a public warning that echoed the task force's plan but infuriated Trump as it impacted the stock market.
Instead of conducting a meeting with the task force about the need for social distancing, Trump instead had a briefing on February 26, 2020, where he replaced Dr. Alex Azar, the secretary of Health and Human Services, as the head of the coronavirus task force with Vice President Mike Pence, with a focus on controlling the message so as not to impact the economy.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/04/11/report-trump-ignored-pleas-to-put-social-distancing-practices-in-place-warnings-of-a-pandemic/#57cd3d19751f
Did they advise any of the governors?  Because if February there are no deaths and barely and cases.  And the federal experts like Fauci and Birx issued no such warnings.  So again, more fake news.  In fact, Trump did more sooner than Trudeau did.  He saw what was going on and did absolutely nothing until Trump acted.  What’s your excuse for his inaction?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on April 13, 2020, 06:43:18 pm
Why should people who are not receiving national security briefings treat it seriously if the guy receiving national security briefings is saying it's no big deal?
Today Dr. Fauci confirmed that the first time he and Dr. Birx recommenced a shut down, Trump agreed and  complied.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 13, 2020, 06:46:07 pm
But there is no shortage.  New York isn’t using anywhere close to the amount of ventilators.  States like Washington, Oregon and California are shipping ventilators to other states that might need them, because they don’t.  Just more fake news.  All because orange man bad.

Those 3 states are sending vents because they don't need them just now. They expect they will se a surge and need them back. Overall there is a shortage of vents. I think the fake news you speak of is what comes out of donny trump's yap. And we all know that's BS most of the time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on April 13, 2020, 06:50:27 pm
Those 3 states are sending vents because they don't need them just now. They expect they will se a surge and need them back. Overall there is a shortage of vents. I think the fake news you speak of is what comes out of donny trump's yap. And we all know that's BS most of the time.
No, there isn’t a shortage of ventilators right now.  They have tens of thousands more than they need.  The projections were wildly off, thankfully.  When did those 3 states suggest they’re expecting a surge?  Cite?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 13, 2020, 06:52:45 pm
No, there isn’t a shortage of ventilators right now.  They have tens of thousands more than they need.  The projections were wildly off, thankfully.  When did those 3 states suggest they’re expecting a surge?  Cite?

California will lend 500 ventilators to the US federal stockpile, to be used by states like New York, which are struggling with rising coronavirus caseloads.
Oregon and Washington have also committed to sending ventilators to states in need.
California is lending the ventilators even as it prepares for an expected surge in coronavirus cases as confirmed COVID-19 case count hits 15,824 in the state, with 372 deaths.

https://www.businessinsider.com/california-provide-ventilators-struggling-states-2020-4
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on April 13, 2020, 07:00:37 pm
California will lend 500 ventilators to the US federal stockpile, to be used by states like New York, which are struggling with rising coronavirus caseloads.
Oregon and Washington have also committed to sending ventilators to states in need.
California is lending the ventilators even as it prepares for an expected surge in coronavirus cases as confirmed COVID-19 case count hits 15,824 in the state, with 372 deaths.

https://www.businessinsider.com/california-provide-ventilators-struggling-states-2020-4
That was a week ago.  When’s the surge coming?  Regardless, do you think that New York is going to take people off the ventilators and send them back to California due to this supposed surge?  Of course not.  California and other states sent them to New York because they have deduced that even with a surge in cases, they’ll be ok for ventilators.  Especially when FEMA as ten thousand to send out to any state at a moments notice if the situation requires it.  Your dislike for Trump is getting in the way of logic and reason.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 13, 2020, 07:05:20 pm
That was a week ago.  When’s the surge coming?  Regardless, do you think that New York is going to take people off the ventilators and send them back to California due to this supposed surge?  Of course not.  California and other states sent them to New York because they have deduced that even with a surge in cases, they’ll be ok for ventilators.  Especially when FEMA as ten thousand to send out to any state at a moments notice if the situation requires it.  Your dislike for Trump is getting in the way of logic and reason.

That was one week ago. And if you could listen to trumps nonsense at his press briefing, such as today's which is meant to deal with the issue at hand and not his election campaign and not dislike it then I would suggest you should rethink your logic and reason.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 13, 2020, 07:42:23 pm
Fauci realizes if he gets fired, as Trump clearly threatened with his tweets, everybody is totally screwed. So I imagine he'll say anything to try to save the planet and keep Ivanka from taking his job.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 13, 2020, 08:09:02 pm
Fauci realizes if he gets fired, as Trump clearly threatened with his tweets, everybody is totally screwed. So I imagine he'll say anything to try to save the planet and keep Ivanka from taking his job.

Yeah you're probably right, we have seen nepotism like like never before with this bunch.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on April 14, 2020, 10:38:32 am
Fauci realizes if he gets fired, as Trump clearly threatened with his tweets, everybody is totally screwed. So I imagine he'll say anything to try to save the planet and keep Ivanka from taking his job.
Conspiracy theories abound!  If you have any info as to an earlier time health experts recommended a shut down, please share with the rest of us! 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on April 14, 2020, 10:39:06 am
Yeah you're probably right, we have seen nepotism like like never before with this bunch.
More conspiracy theories! 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on April 14, 2020, 10:40:01 am
That was one week ago. And if you could listen to trumps nonsense at his press briefing, such as today's which is meant to deal with the issue at hand and not his election campaign and not dislike it then I would suggest you should rethink your logic and reason.
You didn’t answer the question related to ventilators.  Please try again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on April 14, 2020, 11:45:02 am
More conspiracy theories!

Putting his useless daughter And even more useless son-in-law on a committee to “RE-OPEN AMERICAAAAA” is not a conspiracy theory...   it’s an actual fact.  And if this isn’t nepotism, then you likely don’t actually know the meaning of the word.  Use your Googles Shady!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 14, 2020, 12:25:58 pm
You didn’t answer the question related to ventilators.  Please try again.

Do you mean the question related to the SHORTAGE of ventilators? Yes I did.

As the extent of the spread of the new coronavirus in the United States became clear, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, revealed on March 15 that the stockpile had 12,700 ventilators ready to deploy. The government has since sped up maintenance to increase the number available to 16,660 — still fewer than a quarter of what officials years earlier had estimated would be required in a moderate flu pandemic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/business/coronavirus-us-ventilator-shortage.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on April 14, 2020, 12:29:52 pm
This reporter beats Trump up pretty bad....   With good questions.  “What did you do with the time you bought”?  No answers forthcoming.  He did call her “fake” though...   

LOL

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/13/reporter_takes_on_trump_for_virus_response_what_did_you_do_with_the_time_that_you_bought.html

they’re calling  Trump’s behaviour lately “the biggest meltdown by a president ever witnessed”.

Conservative talking head, Rick Wilson, laid it out bare:

Quote
Calling the president an “angry, needy man not looking outward to the needs of a nation in crisis,” the conservative strategist said Trump’s performance on Monday where he viciously attacked reporters and claimed he had “total authority” over the U.S. left no doubt that he is a now completely out of control.

Pointing out that the press conference was a “meltdown sh*tshow on the top of the dumpster fire at the peak of Burning-Tire Mountain,” Wilson wrote of the president, “It was a manic, gibbering, squint-eyed ragefest by America’s Worst President, a petty display by a failed man who long ago passed the limits of his competence and knowledge. It left little to cling to for even his most fervent lackeys but the grunting media animus that replaced conservatism as the motivating force of the Republican Party.”

“Trump just gave the nation a performance that was so manic, so furious, and so utterly unhinged that anyone watching it walked away thinking the 25th Amendment has been too long unexercised and the proof is behind the podium every damn day,” he wrote. “What you saw was the real Trump, unbound by facts, reason, logic, the law, or the Constitution, a petty **** picking petty fights with reporters, a bard of his own songs of grievance and anger.”

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/04/rick-wilson-trumps-press-conference-meltdown-was-a-manic-ragefest-by-americas-worst-president/amp/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 14, 2020, 12:40:41 pm
And of course he threw in his ridiculous propaganda video to make the thing a complete shyte show. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on April 14, 2020, 12:50:04 pm
Do you mean the question related to the SHORTAGE of ventilators? Yes I did.

As the extent of the spread of the new coronavirus in the United States became clear, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, revealed on March 15 that the stockpile had 12,700 ventilators ready to deploy. The government has since sped up maintenance to increase the number available to 16,660 — still fewer than a quarter of what officials years earlier had estimated would be required in a moderate flu pandemic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/business/coronavirus-us-ventilator-shortage.html
There is no ventilator shortage.  Every state has what they need, with extra to spare.  Nobody that needed a ventilator has been unable to get one.  Your cite is from almost a month ago.  The ventilator projections were wildly off.  That’s a good thing.  Furthermore, yes, the federal government failed to acquire significant quantities of ventilators.  That occurred before Trump was president. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on April 14, 2020, 12:52:42 pm
And of course he threw in his ridiculous propaganda video to make the thing a complete shyte show.
Yes, displaying the media’s own words is now considered propaganda.  That’s what Trump Derangement Syndrome has come to.  Don’t hold the media accountable for their previous actions, because now it’s propaganda!  Too funny.  Unless it’s Fox News!  Then totally hold media accountable!  You guys are turning yourselves into pretzels.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on April 14, 2020, 01:09:25 pm
There is no ventilator shortage.  Every state has what they need, with extra to spare.  Nobody that needed a ventilator has been unable to get one.  Your cite is from almost a month ago.  The ventilator projections were wildly off.  That’s a good thing.  Furthermore, yes, the federal government failed to acquire significant quantities of ventilators.  That occurred before Trump was president.

Where do you get your lies errr info?

Quote
Ventilators are in critically short supply nationwide, and are needed to keep patients alive in the most serious stage of COVID-19.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-ventilator-shortage-spurs-team-doctors-extreme-measures/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on April 14, 2020, 01:19:53 pm
Where do you get your lies errr info?
 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-ventilator-shortage-spurs-team-doctors-extreme-measures/
The governor of New York seems to disagree.  According to Cuomo, they have the capacity for several thousand more people on ventilators but they don’t need it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on April 14, 2020, 01:41:31 pm
The governor of New York seems to disagree.  According to Cuomo, they have the capacity for several thousand more people on ventilators but they don’t need it.

https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2020/04/13/hospitals-still-searching-for-equipment-despite-glimmers-of-hope-1275602

Quote
Hospitals across New York City are still scrambling for life-saving equipment and protective gear, even as the crushing impact of the deadly coronavirus hints at easing up.

Health care executives say they're not taking anything for granted despite Gov. Andrew Cuomo and Mayor Bill de Blasio saying the burden on hospitals has started to dissipate in recent days. Some are banking on getting more ventilators, while others have been employing do-it-yourself adjustments to beef up their stockpiles. Nurses continue to bemoan a shortage of protective gear like gowns, masks and other face shields. And doctors in one of the largest hospital systems in New York were recently given guidance on how to ration ventilators, should it be necessary.


“We still think we need another 200 ventilators to make it,” Steven Corwin, president and CEO of New York-Presbyterian, said in an interview.

Corwin said the 10 hospitals in his system have an adequate supply of the life-sparing machines for now — about 870, including a reserve stockpile and others converted from anesthesia machines. Those have to be “tweaked” for patients suffering from the most extreme respiratory symptoms, whose lungs expand as if they are “blowing into a concrete balloon,” he said
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on April 14, 2020, 01:55:10 pm
https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2020/04/13/hospitals-still-searching-for-equipment-despite-glimmers-of-hope-1275602
Yep, protective gear is still at a premium.  That’s one of the reasons Trump looked at banning the exports of all PPE.  Trudeau has a conniption fit, because he has no stockpile and has to rely on the United States for ordering supplies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on April 14, 2020, 01:56:08 pm
Yep, protective gear is still at a premium.  That’s one of the reasons Trump looked at banning the exports of all PPE.  Trudeau has a conniption fit, because he has no stockpile and has to rely on the United States for ordering supplies.

Nice try at deflecting ...  again.   Let’s stick with ventilators, which are in short supply. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 14, 2020, 05:04:42 pm
More conspiracy theories! 😂
Betsy-boy has no idea what "conspiracy" means.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on April 14, 2020, 05:07:08 pm
Betsy-boy has no idea what "conspiracy" means.


Or “nepotism”.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 14, 2020, 05:23:52 pm
Just listening to trump. Pure bull **** from his first statement. Chaos will likely ensue once more when reporters call him out.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 14, 2020, 06:33:24 pm
Trump is so f'ed up with all his lies that he once again couldn't take a question beyond the first half of the first sentence because he knew he was caught like a deer in the headlights yet again.  More flip flop on dealing with governors, trying to hide he does not have the constitutional power to override them on state issues. And on and on. He really seems to be losing his marbles. 25th amendment seems like the obvious remedy.

In the month since he declared the coronavirus pandemic a national emergency, President Donald Trump has repeatedly lied about this once-in-a-generation crisis.

Here, a collection of the biggest lies he’s told as the nation barrels toward a public-health and economic calamity. This post will be updated as needed.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/04/trumps-lies-about-coronavirus/608647/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on April 14, 2020, 06:44:55 pm
Trump found someone to blame for his pandemic response....

https://globalnews.ca/news/6818210/trump-halts-us-funding-who-coronavirus/amp/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 14, 2020, 06:50:15 pm
Trump found someone to blame for his pandemic response....

https://globalnews.ca/news/6818210/trump-halts-us-funding-who-coronavirus/amp/

Yes and his flip flop on that issue has been pointed out by simply reprinting/playing his own words. He was totally supportive of the WHO not so long ago.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on April 14, 2020, 06:56:17 pm
Yes and his flip flop on that issue has been pointed out by simply reprinting/playing his own words. He was totally supportive of the WHO not so long ago.

In theory, he could have found out they’re corrupt, etc since then....  that would be a justifiable “flip-flop”, so I don’t agree with your premise that a flip-flop is somehow inherently a bad thing.   But that’s not the case here...  he needs to blame someone for his complete ineptitude.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 14, 2020, 07:03:38 pm
In theory, he could have found out they’re corrupt, etc since then....  that would be a justifiable “flip-flop”, so I don’t agree with your premise that a flip-flop is somehow inherently a bad thing.   But that’s not the case here...  he needs to blame someone for his complete ineptitude.

One could argue that blaming others for ones own ineptitude is one of the worst types of flip-flops. Trump had his own professionals to advise him but the WHO misstep seemed to fit his own initially so he stuck with them, until the **** hit the fan.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 14, 2020, 07:21:01 pm
Captain Trump of the RMS Titanic:

There isn't any iceberg.
There was an iceberg but it's in a totally different ocean.
The iceberg is in this ocean but it will melt very soon.
There is an iceberg but we didn't hit the iceberg.
We hit the iceberg, but the damage will be repaired very shortly.
The iceberg is a Chinese iceberg.
We are taking on water but every passenger who wants a lifeboat can get a lifeboat, and they are beautiful lifeboats. Look, passengers need to ask nicely for the lifeboats if they want them.
We don't have any lifeboats, we're not lifeboat distributors.
Passengers should have planned for icebergs and brought their own lifeboats.
I really don't think we need that many lifeboats.
We have lifeboats and they're supposed to be our lifeboats, not the passengers' lifeboats.
The lifeboats were left on shore by the last captain of this ship.
Nobody could have foreseen the iceberg.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on April 14, 2020, 07:56:20 pm
Trump found someone to blame for his pandemic response....

https://globalnews.ca/news/6818210/trump-halts-us-funding-who-coronavirus/amp/

I agree with these actions.  They need to be held accountable.  But so does Trump.

I think he genuinely believes they've failed, but he may also be using them as a convenient scapegoat.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 14, 2020, 08:03:59 pm
I agree with these actions.  They need to be held accountable.  But so does Trump.

I think he genuinely believes they've failed, but he may also be using them as a convenient scapegoat.

I see you trying to gloss over the obvious implications of this article. "MAY" be using them?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on April 14, 2020, 08:14:41 pm
From squid's link:

Trump blamed the WHO for “all sorts of false information about transmission and mortality” that was circulated amid initial reports. But in February, he called COVID-19 a “new hoax” during a rally in Charleston, South Carolina.

“One of my people came up to me and said, ‘Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia.’ That did not work out too well.” Trump said.  “They could not do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. … They tried anything. … And this is their new hoax.”


I think Trump genuinely believes a lot of the Russia thing and impeachment were "hoaxes" or at least attempts to bring him down.  He's obviously been all sorts of shady, but he also isn't entirely wrong.  Much of the MSM has also been trying to bring him down and literally "out to get him".  I think he's become so paranoid that his initial reaction was to believe the virus was a hoax to bring him down so he didn't take it seriously.  Paranoia and a desperate response to it is what brought Tricky Dicky down too ultimately.

Trump is obviously not at all blameless in all this, but neither is the media or the Democrats in helping create the conditions for this to occur.  Most on the left will disagree with me because of their pure hatred of the man, and that's my whole point about one of the problems here.  Politics is so broken in America it's now costing lives.  Take an ignorant and arrogant man like Trump and make him paranoid too, it's not a good combo.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 14, 2020, 08:39:24 pm
Not so much hatred, but a recognition of the fact that he is totally unfit and of the horrible implications of that.

Also, cutting funding to WHO now can only make the pandemic worse.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on April 14, 2020, 08:52:40 pm
Not so much hatred, but a recognition of the fact that he is totally unfit and of the horrible implications of that.

Well either way, what are the implications when most of the MSM isn't just reporting the news and asking tough questions but explicitly trying to bring down the POTUS?  Imagine if Obama had to deal with most of the media behaving like FOX News towards him, or if most of his party hated him?  How would that get into his head and affect decision-making?

Trump isn't even capable of governing anymore, if he ever was.  He doesn't even know what facts to believe.  He needs to leave office.

Quote
Also, cutting funding to WHO now can only make the pandemic worse.

Maybe.  How can they be held accountable?  Asking for resignations?

Everything is so effed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 14, 2020, 08:59:43 pm
Well either way, what are the implications when most of the MSM isn't just reporting the news and asking tough questions but explicitly trying to bring down the POTUS?  Imagine if Obama had to deal with most of the media behaving like FOX News towards him, or if most of his party hated him?  How would that get into his head and affect decision-making?

Trump isn't even capable of governing anymore, if he ever was.  He doesn't even know what facts to believe.  He needs to leave office.

Maybe.  How can they be held accountable?  Asking for resignations?

Everything is so effed.

The current POTUS is on the way to bringing himself down by his never ending lies and silly comments. The MSM adds to that by simply reporting them. Fox of course is not a news network but simply an entertainment channel.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Granny on April 15, 2020, 12:42:01 pm
Interesting factoid:
Some US undocumented immigrants are now 'essential workers'.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/coronavirus-undocumented-immigrant-farmworkers-agriculture.html

Ms. Silva, who has spent much of her life in the United States evading law enforcement, now carries a letter from her employer in her wallet, declaring that the Department of Homeland Security considers her “critical to the food supply chain.”
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 15, 2020, 01:09:16 pm
From squid's link:

Trump blamed the WHO for “all sorts of false information about transmission and mortality” that was circulated amid initial reports. But in February, he called COVID-19 a “new hoax” during a rally in Charleston, South Carolina.

“One of my people came up to me and said, ‘Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia.’ That did not work out too well.” Trump said.  “They could not do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. … They tried anything. … And this is their new hoax.”


I think Trump genuinely believes a lot of the Russia thing and impeachment were "hoaxes" or at least attempts to bring him down.  He's obviously been all sorts of shady, but he also isn't entirely wrong.  Much of the MSM has also been trying to bring him down and literally "out to get him".  I think he's become so paranoid that his initial reaction was to believe the virus was a hoax to bring him down so he didn't take it seriously.  Paranoia and a desperate response to it is what brought Tricky Dicky down too ultimately.

Trump is obviously not at all blameless in all this, but neither is the media or the Democrats in helping create the conditions for this to occur.  Most on the left will disagree with me because of their pure hatred of the man, and that's my whole point about one of the problems here.  Politics is so broken in America it's now costing lives.  Take an ignorant and arrogant man like Trump and make him paranoid too, it's not a good combo.

There are some good points here but...

1) Because the Dems can't be blameless doesn't mean that they are equally culpable in this disaster
2) How can one measure if the press is out to 'get' Trump ?  He simply flouts the unstated rules of decorum on a daily basis, so should the press ignore that ?
3) Don't call the Dems "the left", as they aren't and it makes it seem like you are repeating a talking point.

The best point you make is that politics is broken and maybe - like Quebec - some new parties or new alignments can show up to clean the mess.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 15, 2020, 02:34:29 pm
Trump now wants his name printed on IRS stimulus checks before they are mailed which officials from the IRS say could slow the delivery of those checks when they are needed during the Covid crisis. Is there anything too sleazy for trump not to try and use as a campaign tactic?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 15, 2020, 09:21:39 pm
Just hearing that trump was thinking about hosting a daily 2 hour radio phone in show. He decided not to because he thought it might hurt his good buddy Rush Limbaugh's gig. Ya know, the guy who claimed the Corona virus was nothing more than a cold. It seems to never end with this idiot.

Donald Trump wanted to set up a two-hour talk radio phone-in show with him as the star to answer people's coronavirus questions and only dropped the idea because it would clash with Rush Limbaugh

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8222517/Trump-wanted-two-hour-radio-dropped-idea-clash-Rush-Limbaugh.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 17, 2020, 05:09:00 pm
how does trump get to be POTUS when he has no **** clue about what it says in a document known as the constitution?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 17, 2020, 06:07:53 pm
It seems trump has abandoned his post at the Corna virus update press briefing today. Maybe he realized just hos stupid he demonstrates he is when he does open his mouth.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 17, 2020, 07:04:02 pm
Oh I see Trump today has managed to corral a bunch or reporters into his press briefing who are basically a bunch of ass lickers. Perhaps he looked back and saw how well that seemed to work for Stephen Harper. Yavoull herr commandant. What a **** gong show. Lets build a wall and keep Canada safe again untill Corona takes the idiots all out. Faucci just caved as well. So sad.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 17, 2020, 09:10:29 pm
So at a moment of great crisis, the president tweets to 3 Democrat-led states telling them to revolt.

But... I have to remind myself that I have written these people off a long time ago.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 17, 2020, 09:16:47 pm
So at a moment of great crisis, the president tweets to 3 Democrat-led states telling them to revolt.

But... I have to remind myself that I have written these people off a long time ago.

He promotes insurrection. Apparently he is ignorant of the second as well as all the rest of the constitution he promised to uphold.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 17, 2020, 09:28:11 pm
He promotes insurrection. Apparently he is ignorant of the second as well as all the rest of the constitution he promised to uphold.

Anyway, yeah.

Moving on.  This could be a major nation building event, but not for that nation for ours.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 18, 2020, 05:08:55 pm
Just watching the latest press briefing and it makes me feel sorry for the Americans who were stupid enough to have voted for this stupid ****, and also for Americans who are smart enough to embarrassed just now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 19, 2020, 07:02:42 pm
Trump once again demonstrates he is a racist and a misogynist during todays press briefing when during question period he flails his hands around and tells a female and obviously of Asian descent to "keep your voice down" while she simply tried to ask an approptiate question that donny didn't want to have to answer. Where's Lee Harvey Oswald when you really need him?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 19, 2020, 08:59:00 pm
Stop watching...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 19, 2020, 09:04:39 pm
Stop watching...

Yeah my grass needs cutting anyway. Hey I'll envision Trump's head on each blade and I'll get it done in record time. Maybe I'll do the neighbors too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 19, 2020, 09:22:06 pm
People out of work in the US are trying to put food on the table and waiting for their $1200 dollar check while Trump puts his name on it. Perhaps someone should inform (the president) that that's not his money but taxpayer money shouldn't be held up for some feeble attempt at a campaign effort. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 20, 2020, 06:19:53 pm
Trump makes a complete and utter **** of himself yet again at the press briefing. The lies I lost count of in the first few minutes. Daniel Dale will probably have an up to date list when the bullshit stops. He's ranting like the lunatic he is trying to erase his failures as to responding to the Corona "hoax" in a timely fashion.

US governors have accused Donald Trump of making “delusional” and “dangerous” statements amid mounting tensions between the president and state leaders over coronavirus testing and pressure to roll back stay-at-home measures.

The United States has by far the world’s largest number of confirmed coronavirus cases, with more than 730,000 infections and over 39,600 deaths.

Many state leaders have said they cannot embark on Trump’s recommended three-phrase programme to ease stay-at-home restrictions without a robust and widespread system of testing in place.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/19/coronavirus-governors-trump-making-delusional-comments
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 20, 2020, 09:41:36 pm
I wonder if Trump will fly to North Korea to be by the bedside of his busy Fat Kim who is now seriously ill apparently. He's in love with him after all so he should fire up Air Force One and **** off.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 22, 2020, 12:10:03 am
I think Donald Trump should open a barber shop. He is one guy I can think of who's arms are long enough he could cut your hair while staying six feet away. That may be helpful also for him to keep his knuckles from dragging on the ground so much.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 22, 2020, 05:41:00 pm
Trumps little press conference ongoing just now demonstrates beyond his regular dumb mode and proceeded all the way to **** retarded. H eclaims to know more tha the doctors by his side.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on April 23, 2020, 10:49:04 pm
Trumps little press conference ongoing just now demonstrates beyond his regular dumb mode and proceeded all the way to **** retarded. H eclaims to know more tha the doctors by his side.

So, um, today's dumpster-fire was about injecting disinfectants. 

Even by Trump's standards that's pretty batsh!t crazy.
 

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 23, 2020, 10:57:10 pm
So, um, today's dumpster-fire was about injecting disinfectants. 

Even by Trump's standards that's pretty batsh!t crazy.
 

Yep and we can just shine a big strong light on ya and you'll be fine.
What next I wonder?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on April 23, 2020, 10:59:32 pm
So, um, today's dumpster-fire was about injecting disinfectants. 

Even by Trump's standards that's pretty batsh!t crazy.
 

Holy $hit.  Even for Trump this is fkn crazy.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-coronavirus-remedies-injecting-disinfectant-989263/amp/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on April 24, 2020, 11:19:37 pm
In case anyone thinks Trump didn't say that injecting disinfectants was something that would help (Shady).  He actually did say these bat-$hit crazy crap.

Here is a transcript.

Quote
"So I asked Bill a question some of you are thinking of if you're into that world, which I find to be pretty interesting. So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether its ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said, that hasn't been checked but you're gonna test it. And then I said, supposing it brought the light inside the body, which you can either do either through the skin or some other way, and I think you said you're gonna test that too, sounds interesting. And I then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute, and is there a way you can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs, and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it'd be interesting to check that. So you're going to have to use medical doctors, but it sounds interesting to me, so we'll see. But the whole concept of the light, the way it goes in one minute, that's pretty powerful."
. https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-suggests-infecting-disinfectant-video-transcript-2020-4
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 24, 2020, 11:30:32 pm
In case anyone thinks Trump didn't say that injecting disinfectants was something that would help (Shady).  He actually did say these bat-$hit crazy crap.

Here is a transcript.
. https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-suggests-infecting-disinfectant-video-transcript-2020-4

If Shady would provide his mailing address I would be happy to forward a bottle of Lysol to him he could sip while he sits under a big white light. I'll include a basic comic book so he has something to keep him entertained while he's there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on April 27, 2020, 12:47:12 pm
Quote
The fact that there are warnings like "Do not drink" on bottles of bleach makes me realise that Donald Trump can become president.

Ricky Gervais, March 2106
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 27, 2020, 01:27:05 pm
Ricky Gervais, March 2106

I wonder what nonsense we will hear today from Trump now that he has cancelled his Corona press briefing but will now hold a press conference. Apparently it will have something to do with how to avoid contracting the virus. Maybe he wants to try and walk back his previous nonsense as to drinking/injecting Lysol etc. Talk about a "rudderless ship" the current White House has become! 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 27, 2020, 08:01:03 pm
Trump claims he knows about his buddy Fat Kims health situation, but says he won't tell anybody. Then he goes around in circles as usual on the issue. What a silly little game. American's must becominf ever more embarrassed. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on April 28, 2020, 01:06:00 pm
Looks like some of Trump's supporters are even dumber than he is.

A Kansas man drank cleaning product over the weekend after President Donald Trump floated the idea of ingesting disinfectant as a treatment for coronavirus.

State health officer Dr Lee Norman mentioned the alarming case at a press briefing on Monday as he revealed that the Kansas Poison Control Center has seen a more than 40 percent increase in cleaning chemical cases. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8265665/Kansas-man-drank-cleaning-product-Trump-suggested-injecting-disinfectant-fight-coronavirus.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 29, 2020, 05:54:59 am
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo

Wow.  3.6% drop in support for #45 since the inexplicable peaking of support a few weeks back.  I am not getting my hopes up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 07, 2020, 12:25:25 pm
One of Trump’s “valets” has COVID-19. 

https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/coronavirus/2020/5/7/1_4929055.html

Quote
"We were recently notified by the White House Medical Unit that a member of the United States Military, who works on the White House campus, has tested positive for Coronavirus," deputy White House press secretary Hogan Gidley said in a statement. "The President and the Vice President have since tested negative for the virus and they remain in great health."
A White House source said the valet, a man who has not been identified, exhibited "symptoms" Wednesday morning, and said the news that someone close to Trump had tested positive for coronavirus was "hitting the fan" in the West Wing.
Trump, who is a self-described germophobe, has chastised aides before who coughed or sneezed in his presence. He has claimed to rarely get sick himself
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 08, 2020, 02:52:06 pm
One of Trump’s “valets” has COVID-19. 

https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/coronavirus/2020/5/7/1_4929055.html

One of Pence’s staffers has COVID-19 now.

Trump is being tested daily.  LOL  ::)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 08, 2020, 05:27:40 pm
Getting closer.  And they still refuse to wear masks. 

Who will be the one to die ?  I'm guessing Rudy.

Meanwhile:

Trump to states - "better if you get ventilators on your own"
Trump to Russia "here HAVE SOME VENTILATORS FRIEND"

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-is-giving-ventilators-to-russia-putin-for-coronavirus-response-2020-5?r=US&IR=T&fbclid=IwAR2Rm_iNtDx8a5SAFeQPzcTqzn85teS0Tq6RJ5nIAHnAJ3UvGAPv535_6M0
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on May 09, 2020, 12:39:04 pm
Getting closer.  And they still refuse to wear masks. 

Who will be the one to die ?  I'm guessing Rudy.

Meanwhile:

Trump to states - "better if you get ventilators on your own"
Trump to Russia "here HAVE SOME VENTILATORS FRIEND"

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-is-giving-ventilators-to-russia-putin-for-coronavirus-response-2020-5?r=US&IR=T&fbclid=IwAR2Rm_iNtDx8a5SAFeQPzcTqzn85teS0Tq6RJ5nIAHnAJ3UvGAPv535_6M0
There is no shortage of ventilators.  There’s a huge surplus.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 09, 2020, 12:55:10 pm
There is no shortage of ventilators.  There’s a huge surplus.

Apparently actual professionals in the business disagree with you.

 Current estimates of the number of ventilators in the United States range from 60,000 to 160,000, depending on whether those that have only partial functionality are included.2 The national strategic reserve of ventilators is small and far from sufficient for the projected gap.2 No matter which estimate we use, there are not enough ventilators for patients with Covid-19 in the upcoming months.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006141
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on May 09, 2020, 01:12:08 pm
no mas! no mas!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on May 09, 2020, 05:33:47 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/Mh0dQ7k.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 09, 2020, 07:40:48 pm
Fauci as well as CDC director, FDA commissioner are now in quarantine after being exposed in the White House.

What a **** show...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 09, 2020, 08:45:24 pm
Fauci as well as CDC director, FDA commissioner are now in quarantine after being exposed in the White House.

What a **** show...

Want to take out a regime?  If you can't bomb them or shoot them, why not infect them?

I'm not saying this was intentional by China, but imagine a country with a dictatorship force-vaccinating its populace then unleashing it.  Only problem is, no country is immune except those vaccinated.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 09, 2020, 09:01:04 pm
Trump must be seething after hearing Obama's comments today but I have yet to see his responses. I wondere if the grown ups in the room told him it wouldn't be a good time or did he drop his phone in the toilet?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 09, 2020, 10:09:38 pm
Want to take out a regime?  If you can't bomb them or shoot them, why not infect them?

I'm not saying this was intentional by China, but imagine a country with a dictatorship force-vaccinating its populace then unleashing it.  Only problem is, no country is immune except those vaccinated.

You have evidence China has a vaccine?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 09, 2020, 11:13:18 pm
You have evidence China has a vaccine?

LOL no, i'm not at all saying this is what happened.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 10, 2020, 11:27:58 pm
#ObamaGate has like 2 million mentions on twitter and is trending.  I really think twitter is a toxic environment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 11, 2020, 04:24:50 pm
Trump concluded todays press briefing by demonstrating quite clearly he is a racist, and a misogynist. I wonder if BC4 over at mlw was watching.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on May 11, 2020, 04:58:02 pm
Trump concluded todays press briefing by demonstrating quite clearly he is a racist, and a misogynist. I wonder if BC4 over at mlw was watching.

video of: https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1259956056542924800/vid/1280x720/iAEfSzeowU0zF3JB.mp4
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 11, 2020, 05:13:24 pm
video of: https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1259956056542924800/vid/1280x720/iAEfSzeowU0zF3JB.mp4

He truly is losing it. And perhaps I'm somewhat late with that comment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 11, 2020, 06:33:05 pm
I'm betting trump's handlers will reel him in from doing press briefings after the **** show todays ended up becoming. I however hope he continues on so even the nitwits that voted for him last time will not make the same mistake in November.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 11, 2020, 07:30:11 pm
Here's the thing - he hates reporter #2 apparently but called on her to get out of questions from reporter #2 and likely DIDN'T RECOGNIZE BECAUSE OF HER MASK  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on May 11, 2020, 07:31:45 pm
Trump concluded todays press briefing by demonstrating quite clearly he is a racist, and a misogynist. I wonder if BC4 over at mlw was watching.
Complete nonsense.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 11, 2020, 07:34:03 pm
Complete nonsense.

All you have to do is look up the replay and move toward the ending. It's quite clear.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 11, 2020, 07:44:10 pm
Here's the thing - he hates reporter #2 apparently but called on her to get out of questions from reporter #2 and likely DIDN'T RECOGNIZE BECAUSE OF HER MASK  ;D ;D ;D

He hates women who won't let him grab them by the **** because they don't think he's a star. Especially foreign women who are smarter than he is and ask him questions that point out his failings, especially during the current situation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 11, 2020, 09:19:49 pm
Does anybody know exactly WTF this Obamagate nonsense that trrumpty bumpty used on his way out of todays press briefing?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 11, 2020, 09:32:23 pm
That video with the asian reporter looks really bad.  But I want to know the context.  Has he had other run-ins with her?  Is she some defender of China?  Does she work for some Chinese publication?  If there's no other explanation then ya he looks like a racist here.  But I'm also not going to believe a 20 second clip without knowing the full details.

I've learned twitter and the MSM are good at cutting clips up to make Trump look as bad as possible and doubling-down on some narrative that isn't entirely true.  Like how people said Trump told people to drink bleach, which is a lie.

We live in an age of full-on propaganda warfare from all sides, everything is spin.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 11, 2020, 09:39:34 pm
That video with the asian reporter looks really bad.  But I want to know the context.  Has he had other run-ins with her?  Is she some defender of China?  Does she work for some Chinese publication?  If there's no other explanation then ya he looks like a racist here.  But I'm also not going to believe a 20 second clip without knowing the full details.

I've learned twitter and the MSM are good at cutting clips up to make Trump look as bad as possible and doubling-down on some narrative that isn't entirely true.  Like how people said Trump told people to drink bleach, which is a lie.

We live in an age of full-on propaganda warfare from all sides, everything is spin.

The details are right there in front of you. Her question was valid but it put him in a spot he wasn't capable of handling, so he simply headed for cover. I think he became aware that his angry response revealed once again the flaws of his character so ran away. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on May 12, 2020, 12:14:53 am
video of: https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1259956056542924800/vid/1280x720/iAEfSzeowU0zF3JB.mp4
That video with the asian reporter looks really bad.  But I want to know the context.  Has he had other run-ins with her?  Is she some defender of China?  Does she work for some Chinese publication?  If there's no other explanation then ya he looks like a racist here.  But I'm also not going to believe a 20 second clip without knowing the full details.

CBS journalist Weijia Jiang - Chinese born/American raised; brought to the U.S. as a toddler. And yes, she is one of the female reporters that Trump has chosen to berate previously - in a prior incident, she had a follow-up comment to a question of hers that Trump answered... a comment where she corrected a statement Trump made in his answer. To which Trump became rattled and belittled her by telling her to lower her voice; saying, “Nice and easy. Nice and easy, just relax". Of course she wasn't loud and was quite reserved and professional throughout. 

ConspiracyG, she was Chinese born... that should be enough for you to work with, right?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 14, 2020, 04:31:53 pm
Complete nonsense.

Hey Shady we know you're a trumpidiot can you tell what your boss means by Obamagate? He seems to deflect whenever directly asked. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 14, 2020, 04:36:27 pm
Hey Shady we know you're a trumpidiot can you tell what your boss means by Obamagate? He seems to deflect whenever directly asked. Thanks in advance.

It's a dog whistle that resonates with his flock.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 14, 2020, 04:44:56 pm
It's a dog whistle that resonates with his flock.

Very likely a waste of time but I'd like to see him try to come up with some sort of explanation for this comment. This will of course be one of his "embers" that will fizzle in the light of day.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on May 15, 2020, 01:21:25 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/qPGwrNf.png)

member Shady, were you one of the warriors needing Trump's explanation of what Madison Avenue implies? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on May 17, 2020, 12:43:13 am
oh my! The cameos are the best! And yes, Donald J. Trump actually tweeted this video (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1250125192606736385/pu/vid/1280x720/MSPgrXEuEAlZLUJQ.mp4)...

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 18, 2020, 11:08:46 pm
Well Donny announces he is taking HCL for Covid regardless of what the FDA advises. Maybe if takes a few shots of Lysol this could be the path to an earlier election.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 21, 2020, 04:32:53 am
@waldo why did you take it down?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on May 23, 2020, 06:26:57 pm
Trump playing golf today (https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1264230549218091009/vid/1280x720/f-0eqkk0lOCKPV5_.mp4) - of course, there's always a tweet!

(https://i.imgur.com/xaKqQhH.png)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on May 24, 2020, 01:56:58 pm
Trump’s superpower is making his opponents act completely insane in response to him.  They act in a way they would never normally act, but they can’t help themselves.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on May 24, 2020, 02:12:36 pm
Trump’s superpower is making his opponents act completely insane in response to him.  They act in a way they would never normally act, but they can’t help themselves.

"Expert Troll" might qualify him to be Supreme Leader of 4chan, but not POTUS.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 24, 2020, 02:22:30 pm
Trump’s superpower is making his opponents act completely insane in response to him.  They act in a way they would never normally act, but they can’t help themselves.

Yes, he has respect for the US at an all time low, to a point where people are asking themselves which is worse, the US or China.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 24, 2020, 03:14:35 pm
Yes, he has respect for the US at an all time low, to a point where people are asking themselves which is worse, the US or China.

And there is a cost to that. 

The US, post WW2, has been able to lead and get its objectives fulfilled by NATO AND G7 partners because of its power, and willingness to pay.  There are benefits to that, although it would take a policy specialist to explain them and their value.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 24, 2020, 04:22:03 pm
And there is a cost to that. 

The US, post WW2, has been able to lead and get its objectives fulfilled by NATO AND G7 partners because of its power, and willingness to pay.  There are benefits to that, although it would take a policy specialist to explain them and their value.
d

At his point I would still chose the US over China but mainly because Trump will no longer be president at some point.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on May 24, 2020, 04:28:00 pm
d

At his point I would still chose the US over China but mainly because Trump will no longer be president at some point.

That and the concentration camps.  And the fact that China is a disgusting autocracy and the US is a democracy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 24, 2020, 04:42:34 pm
That and the concentration camps.  And the fact that China is a disgusting autocracy and the US is a democracy.
That too, however the US does have the largest prison population and incarceration rate in the world.
Whether the US will remain a democracy is a bit questionable at the moment with the all the attempts at voter suppression.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on May 24, 2020, 04:52:59 pm
That too, however the US does have the largest prison population and incarceration rate in the world.
Whether the US will remain a democracy is a bit questionable at the moment with the all the attempts at voter suppression.

I might be an incorrigible optimist, but I think the current political situation in the US is just a distressing canker on its timeline.  Forgotten in a few years, as the main talking points on the merits of a president become who was the best ever, and who was the second worst ever.

I do hope religious nutjobs don't make a liar out of me.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 24, 2020, 07:53:13 pm
I might be an incorrigible optimist, but I think the current political situation in the US is just a distressing canker on its timeline.  Forgotten in a few years, as the main talking points on the merits of a president become who was the best ever, and who was the second worst ever.

I do hope religious nutjobs don't make a liar out of me.

I suspect you will be right but it's shocking we would be even thinking these things about a country with such a constitution and system of checks and balances.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 24, 2020, 11:45:26 pm
I suspect you will be right but it's shocking we would be even thinking these things about a country with such a constitution and system of checks and balances.

It’s too easy to get around these “checks and balances” in their system when you have judges that are appointed by the same dirtbags who’ve rigged the system in their favour. 

Plus, they don’t have any independent oversight on their elections, which makes them vulnerable to partisan tampering.

Put these together and you don’t have a system that is robust enough to withstand what is going on down there now...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 25, 2020, 09:09:03 pm
Ann Coulter calls Trump 'a retard'

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ann-coulter-turns-disloyal-actual-172315065.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on May 26, 2020, 10:24:27 am
A lot of people including many who think they are less retarded than Trump may be just as retarded or morec retarded. It's a subjective term and so necessarily unreliable based on thelack of objective  methodology used at arriving at the conclusion of retardation. You would have to be retarded not to understand that.

Sorry my response was retarded by events preventing me from
responding earlier.

However from the content on the board it seems retardation is not specific to me.

Have a wonderful day lacking in retardation.

Regards,

The Late Rue, R. I. P.
(rhetorical insane person)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on May 26, 2020, 06:48:37 pm
a start - babySteps! --- In a first, Twitter adds fact-check warnings to Trump tweets (https://apnews.com/700c52aab0869253625b80255a397f19?utm_medium=AP&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter)


image showing added fact-checking links... and linked "fact checking":

(https://i.imgur.com/QElK1jh.png)


baited breath awaiting the shitGibbon's response!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on May 26, 2020, 08:54:50 pm
baited breath awaiting the shitGibbon's response!

and it didn't take long!

(https://i.imgur.com/m8OZo2C.png)

of course, long-standing conjecture about Trump purchasing OANN (One America News Network) to form the basis for his own TrumpTV... even 'rumblings' about starting up his own social-network platform to compete with Twitter/Facebook et al. Make it so oh mighty badOrangeMan, make it so!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 26, 2020, 10:30:31 pm
and it didn't take long!

(https://i.imgur.com/m8OZo2C.png)

of course, long-standing conjecture about Trump purchasing OANN (One America News Network) to form the basis for his own TrumpTV... even 'rumblings' about starting up his own social-network platform to compete with Twitter/Facebook et al. Make it so oh mighty badOrangeMan, make it so!

Twitter is a private platform...  hence, they can stifle whatever BS speech they wish.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on May 27, 2020, 11:22:49 am
of course this is yet another home-grown Trump distraction --- and his base has taken up the charge against claimed twitter censorship of dearLeader!

one of the milder/est responses comes from Trump's 2020 campaign manager - in keeping with the lyin' theme, claiming they pulled advertising from twitter... even though twitter announced an intent to ban political advertising last fall!

(https://i.imgur.com/d9MWpgn.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Rue on May 27, 2020, 12:12:50 pm




First off many if laws in the U.S. are passed by states not he federal government and so using the prison incarceration rates in a discussion about Trump is off topic but hey why let that stop Waldo because hey let's infer Trump is responsible for crime in the US and the amount of people arrested in the US. Its his fault.

Next If one goes to the internet to get statistics to pose as an expert on criminology they will most certainly find numerous sites listing the US as having the highest prison rate per capita in the world per 100,000 people and a total of anywhere from 2.2 to 2.4 million prisoners.

The problem with such comparisons is that:

1-there is not a quantitative measure of how the United States ranks in incarceration rates compared to countries with comparable criminal justice systems
2-such comparisons do NOT look at  other indicators not measured in the Rule of Law index used to come up with these numbers, such as penal policies, prison conditions, and use of fines and other sanctions;
3-the comparisons won’t reflect number of persons arrested who are killed and show do not show up on the incarceration list;
4-the number won’t show the number who are not incarcerated because there are no prisons to put them in;
5-the numbers do not take into account prisoners detained for pre-trial detention or administrative detention which many countries use to keep people detained indefinitely;
6-the numbers do not account for deaths in the jails by torture and disease;
7-the statisics from countries like North Korea are unknown and can not be relied on to be accurate from countries like China, Russia, Iran and other totalitarian states who for political reasons hide their political prisoner numbers;
8-the people arriving at the statistics rely on evidence from the countries that therefore may be self-serving and inaccurate.

That said I would expose Waldo to go off topic and pose as criminology expert and use statistics to prop his political biases and in particular anti-US, anti-Trump beliefs..

Omni help! Omni come help me that bad man is back and he's supporting Shady! Help! Help!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 27, 2020, 01:21:33 pm
Banning all political ads from Twitter is the right move, especially during an election season.  Facebook should do it too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on May 27, 2020, 01:33:45 pm
...come help me that bad man is back and he's supporting Shady! Help! Help!

good on ya! You being the front-man for member Shady is, quite obviously to you, such a rewarding task!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on May 27, 2020, 01:44:12 pm
First off many if laws in the U.S. are passed by states not he federal government and so using the prison incarceration rates in a discussion about Trump is off topic but hey why let that stop Waldo because hey let's infer Trump is responsible for crime in the US and the amount of people arrested in the US. Its his fault.

poking the bear is one thing; however, if you want the bear to engage you need to add perspective... as in whatTheHey are you on about here? Was it something I said?  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 27, 2020, 04:34:16 pm



First off many if laws in the U.S. are passed by states not he federal government and so using the prison incarceration rates in a discussion about Trump is off topic but hey why let that stop Waldo because hey let's infer Trump is responsible for crime in the US and the amount of people arrested in the US. Its his fault.

Next If one goes to the internet to get statistics to pose as an expert on criminology they will most certainly find numerous sites listing the US as having the highest prison rate per capita in the world per 100,000 people and a total of anywhere from 2.2 to 2.4 million prisoners.

The problem with such comparisons is that:

1-there is not a quantitative measure of how the United States ranks in incarceration rates compared to countries with comparable criminal justice systems
2-such comparisons do NOT look at  other indicators not measured in the Rule of Law index used to come up with these numbers, such as penal policies, prison conditions, and use of fines and other sanctions;
3-the comparisons won’t reflect number of persons arrested who are killed and show do not show up on the incarceration list;
4-the number won’t show the number who are not incarcerated because there are no prisons to put them in;
5-the numbers do not take into account prisoners detained for pre-trial detention or administrative detention which many countries use to keep people detained indefinitely;
6-the numbers do not account for deaths in the jails by torture and disease;
7-the statisics from countries like North Korea are unknown and can not be relied on to be accurate from countries like China, Russia, Iran and other totalitarian states who for political reasons hide their political prisoner numbers;
8-the people arriving at the statistics rely on evidence from the countries that therefore may be self-serving and inaccurate.

That said I would expose Waldo to go off topic and pose as criminology expert and use statistics to prop his political biases and in particular anti-US, anti-Trump beliefs..

Omni help! Omni come help me that bad man is back and he's supporting Shady! Help! Help!

The crimes trump is most responsible for are the ones he commits. Apparently you do need some help.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 27, 2020, 05:46:12 pm
So trump has his little knickers in a knot because twitter dared expose some of the complete utter bullshit trump tweets regularly so he appears ready to sigh an order to shut them down.

 y'avoulle herr kommandant

Now GFY
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on May 28, 2020, 06:11:08 am
a start - babySteps! --- In a first, Twitter adds fact-check warnings to Trump tweets (https://apnews.com/700c52aab0869253625b80255a397f19?utm_medium=AP&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter)

image showing added fact-checking links... and linked "fact checking":

(https://i.imgur.com/QElK1jh.png)

and the latest has Trump supposedly issuing an executive order today... to supposedly place uppity social networks where they belong - under his "thumbscrews"!

of course a long-standing victim-play has right-wing/conservatives steadfastly claiming those wascally liberalSocialNetwork platforms are all heavily biased against conservative thought/positions - that they censor conservative speech. And in a most timely outcome, a ruling came forward yesterday in the 2018 lawsuit, "Loomer & Freedom Watch versus Apple/Google/Facebook/Twitter"; a lawsuit where the plantiffs alleged that those platforms worked together to “intentionally and willfully suppress politically conservative content.” The court ruling found that the plaintiffs “failed to tie [their] concerns to colorable legal claims” and dismissed the lawsuit.

from the US District Court for the District of Columbia ruling:

(https://i.imgur.com/I79j2RK.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on May 28, 2020, 11:26:29 am
and then there's that azzhole Zuckerberg weighing in... by the by, "many are saying" Zuckerberg's Facebook business model is nothing more than a commercialized distribution of lies, misinformation and propaganda.

of course, in a Fox News interview: Zuckerberg knocks Twitter for fact-checking Trump, says private companies shouldn't be 'the arbiter of truth' (https://www.foxnews.com/media/facebook-mark-zuckerberg-twitter-fact-checking-trump)

Quote from: Facebook CEO, Mark Zuckerberg
I just believe strongly that Facebook shouldn't be the arbiter of truth of everything that people say online," he added. "Private companies probably shouldn't be, especially these platform companies, shouldn't be in the position of doing that.

another interview/vid of Facebook CEO Zuckerberg (https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1265986121416216581/vid/1280x720/cfL2eaNESH4Io08u.mp4)


Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey responds to the 'arbiter of truth' tag Zuckerberg applied:

Quote from: Twitter CEO, Jack Dorsey
The labeling of two of President Donald Trump’s tweets with fact checks does not make Twitter an “arbiter of truth.” Our intention is to connect the dots of conflicting statements and show the information in dispute so people can judge for themselves. More transparency from us is critical so folks can clearly see the why behind our actions
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 28, 2020, 07:09:34 pm
and then there's that azzhole Zuckerberg weighing in... by the by, "many are saying" Zuckerberg's Facebook business model is nothing more than a commercialized distribution of lies, misinformation and propaganda.

of course, in a Fox News interview: Zuckerberg knocks Twitter for fact-checking Trump, says private companies shouldn't be 'the arbiter of truth' (https://www.foxnews.com/media/facebook-mark-zuckerberg-twitter-fact-checking-trump)

Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey responds to the 'arbiter of truth' tag Zuckerberg applied:

Twitter slapped a warning link below Trump's tweet pointing to a CNN article that refutes Trump's tweet with the headline "Trump makes unsubstantiated claim that mail-in ballots will lead to voter fraud".

Twitter is playing politics with Trump's tweet and injecting their politics and ideology into it.  That shouldn't be their job.  If you disagree you're a hypocrite because if they slapped a "Robert Fife" article link below Trudeau's tweet refuting JWR's claims you'd be trashing twitter.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on May 28, 2020, 11:09:40 pm
Twitter slapped a warning link below Trump's tweet pointing to a CNN article that refutes Trump's tweet with the headline "Trump makes unsubstantiated claim that mail-in ballots will lead to voter fraud".

quite obviously you haven't checked the actual link; accordingly, the waldo will allow you another gimme... another do-over!  ;D

lets see; the actual Twitter page linked to those 2 BS tweets from the badOrangeMan includes references to 'The Hill', 'WAPO', 'CNN', 'NBC News', 'RSI', 'ABC News', 'Forbes', 'Christian Science Monitor'... and another 10 or so individuals of varying expert worthy note! So ConspiracyG - not just CNN as you state!

try again, try harder!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 28, 2020, 11:32:53 pm
That shouldn't be their job.

What is Twitter’s “job”?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on May 28, 2020, 11:35:08 pm
from the authoritative 'Techdirt blog': The Two Things To Understand About Trump's Executive Order On Social Media: (1) It's A Distraction (2) It's Legally Meaningless (https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200528/01321044592/two-things-to-understand-about-trumps-executive-order-social-media-1-distraction-2-legally-meaningless.shtml)

Quote
To be clear: the executive order is nonsense. You can't overrule the law by executive order, nor can you ignore the Constitution. This executive order attempts to do both. It's also blatantly anti-free speech, anti-private property, pro-big government -- which is only mildly amusing, given that Trump and his sycophantic followers like to insist they're the opposite of all of those things. But also, because the executive order only has limited power, there's a lot of huffing and puffing in there for very little actual things that the administration can do. It's very much written in a way to make Trump's fans think he's done something to attack social media companies, but the deeper you dig, the more nothingness you find.
.
.
Anyway -- this is all a distraction. The polls currently don't look great for Trump and over 100,000 people are dead in large part due to Trump's own mismanagement of the COVID-19 pandemic. He doesn't want people talking about this, so he does something performative like this instead. It does get people talking about it, and he knows full well that his ignorant base of sycophantic followers will eat this up in the false belief that it actually means something and will somehow "take away" Section 230. It doesn't. It can't. It's nonsense.

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 28, 2020, 11:47:57 pm
It looks like even Republicans are strarting to realize what an idiot their current leader is and are abandoning him in hopes they can retain at least some power come November. Looking like they could lose not only the WH but the senate as well. Meanwhile donny is still trying to figure out how to stifle his favorite communications system twitter, who pointed out a few of his lies lately. Sort of a hilarious gongshow if it wasn't for the fact that the world could use some intelligent leaders at the moment, and he has struck out big time.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/25/us/politics/trump-election-briefings.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on May 29, 2020, 02:57:55 pm
from the authoritative 'Techdirt blog': The Two Things To Understand About Trump's Executive Order On Social Media: (1) It's A Distraction (2) It's Legally Meaningless (https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200528/01321044592/two-things-to-understand-about-trumps-executive-order-social-media-1-distraction-2-legally-meaningless.shtml)

Trumpy's EO was so bold, so threatening, so impacting... it resulted in Twitter ramping it up another notch by tagging a TrumpTweet as 'glorifying violence'! - while still allowing the tweet to be read via a flow-through "View" link:

(https://i.imgur.com/YoQ7SRW.png)


meanwhile... President Karen wants to speak to the manager!  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/JDgDhwA.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on May 30, 2020, 12:26:17 am
considering its most unapologetic emphasis that its reporting is informed by 'conservative principles', this account from The Dispatch presents a most interesting Section 230 explainer, one with added historical reference: Section 230: Donald Trump vs. Twitter --- Explaining the law that created the modern internet marketplace of ideas (https://thedispatch.com/p/section-230-donald-trump-vs-twitter)

Quote
Twitter didn’t censor the president, but it did single out his tweets, exercised editorial discretion to rebut his tweet, and did so in its corporate voice. Twitter’s action thus was almost perfectly constructed to reignite a raging legal argument that centered around two often-misunderstood terms—“publisher” and “platform.”

Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act has two key provisions. The first simply declares that “No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider.” In plain language this means that Facebook can’t be held liable for the content of my posts. Facebook is a platform for my speech, but I’m still the speaker. Facebook is not.

The second provision adds an important twist:

    (2)Civil liability No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be held liable on account of—

    (A)any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or availability of material that the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected

This is the provision that explicitly allows Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Yelp, and virtually any other online platform to moderate user content without being held liable for user content.

And it just so happens that this provision is the great engine of free speech online. It has created the modern internet marketplace of ideas.
.
.
Section 230 plainly permits companies to restrict access to content it deems “objectionable” without becoming a publisher. That’s the law. Trump’s executive order can’t override it—nor can his rules drafted by his executive agencies. He can, however, can create a tremendous legal mess and spawn an avalanche of lawsuits.

State interference with the speech policies of private corporations is a direct threat to civil liberties. Americans should be able to construct online communities that reflect the culture and ethos of the company’s founders and leaders. While I may argue for policies that better reflect my own values, ultimately I defer to the individuals who built the platform. Their culture and their rules are their decision.
.
.
Trump is massing the power of the executive branch of government in a direct attack on American liberty. American citizens who build and operate their own companies should draw the line in the sand. Twitter (and every other social media company) should not only challenge unconstitutional regulations, it should tell Trump his special privileges are over.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 30, 2020, 04:43:41 pm
Well now trump is inciting even more violence by suggesting his so called MAGA supporters should come to the WH and challenge the protesters. Good going donny. Now why don't you do the most appropriate thing, keep your mask off, get infected, and die before before you **** the country up more than you already have.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 31, 2020, 12:14:45 am
If trump hasn't already demonstrated what a useless piece of **** he is, he certainly has done so today by renaining totally absent under the current situation. He's probably **** his pants and crawled under his bed. And he'll go golfing tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 31, 2020, 07:26:50 am
Trump has suggested the G7 be moved to a G11... with India (ok) South Korea (ok) Australia (ok) and.... hmmm.... RUSSIA (BING BING BING BING!!!)

One of these things is not like the other - the non-democratic, organized crime run, UN flouting country that interferes in elections should be sanctioned not invited in, obviously.  But he will politicize this and his flock will support it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/trumps-businesses-are-full-of-dirty-russian-money-the-scandal-is-thats-legal/2019/03/29/11b812da-5171-11e9-88a1-ed346f0ec94f_story.html

The Russian mob is dirty and disgusting and they are keeping Trump in power.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 31, 2020, 08:21:33 pm
Trump truly is losing his marbles. I guess he sees election hopes fading and maybe his hairpiece isn't fitting quite right.

A day after claiming he didn’t mean to suggest that law enforcement officials should shoot people who were part of the unrest in Minnesota, President Trump said on Saturday that the Secret Service had been prepared to sic the “most vicious dogs” on protesters outside the White House gates on Friday night.

Those comments were the first of several Mr. Trump made throughout the day that veered wildly in tone and content — from threatening violence against the protesters outside the White House in the morning to sounding notes of sympathy for the pain caused by the “horror” of police brutality in the afternoon to a series of evening messages on Twitter, including one defending the police in New York City.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/30/us/politics/trump-threatens-protesters-dogs-weapons.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 31, 2020, 08:31:40 pm
This is where it was always going to end.

Gun nuts will attack peaceful protestors next, I predict.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 31, 2020, 09:22:58 pm
This is where it was always going to end.

Gun nuts will attack peaceful protestors next, I predict.

Why is the 2nd Amendment there if you can't use it???
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 03, 2020, 11:58:32 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w7kwtLJtVc
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 04, 2020, 12:47:11 pm
Now that James Mattis has denounced Trump calling him a "threat to the constitution", Trump tries to fire back that he fired Mattis, when in fact we all know that he resigned back in 2018. How does that old saying go, "how can you tell if Trump is lying? His lips are moving"

President Donald Trump's first secretary of defense, retired Marine Gen. James Mattis, said in a remarkable 650-word statement to The Atlantic on Wednesday that the President is actively trying to divide the country and urged Americans to unite without him

Mattis has avoided directly criticizing Trump since his ouster in December 2018, but that changed after the administration used strong-arm tactics and dispatched authorities in riot gear to clear peaceful protesters in front of the White House this week so Trump could hold a photo op. Mattis, once the loyal general, unloaded on Trump and his threat to use the military to patrol US streets, which Mattis said would create a dangerous tension between the nation's citizens and the troops who are meant to protect them.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/04/politics/mattis-trump-statement-annotated/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 04, 2020, 07:26:43 pm
Looks like Trump has refocused his desire to build a wall. Instead of it being on the border with Mexico he now wants it around the White House. I guess under his guidance it will no longer be "the peoples house"

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/06/trump-is-literally-building-a-wall-around-the-white-house
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 05, 2020, 12:28:54 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FvBtu3gB4
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on June 05, 2020, 09:04:13 am
Boom!  This is why Democrats wanted a continual lockdown.  Just wait until the job numbers come out for June now that California and New York are opening up.

May sees biggest jobs increase ever of 2.5 million jobs
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/05/jobs-report-may-2020.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on June 05, 2020, 10:51:03 am
Boom!  This is why Democrats wanted a continual lockdown.  Just wait until the job numbers come out for June now that California and New York are opening up.

From the article...
Quote
“It seems the damage from the nationwide lockdown was not as severe or as lasting as we feared a month ago,”

Good thing it was just a pandemic and not climate change action. So who are these fearful 'we' that the report mentions were so fearful of lockdowns?  In any case this feels like one of those signs you see on highway projects that proclaim "X number of new jobs created!" when it's really just a bunch of people who already had jobs working on a new project.

Meanwhile the company I work for just announced they're not opening until Mar 2021 at the earliest.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 05, 2020, 11:44:36 am
Boom!  This is why Democrats wanted a continual lockdown.  Just wait until the job numbers come out for June now that California and New York are opening up.

May sees biggest jobs increase ever of 2.5 million jobs
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/05/jobs-report-may-2020.html

Well, good news is good news...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 05, 2020, 01:18:46 pm
According to Stats Can, Canada added almost 290,000 jobs in May. Per capita, that would be about the same as the US.

Of course it could all go south in a hurry if there is a big second wave.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 05, 2020, 02:01:20 pm
Trump has the chairs for reporters pushed close together for his latest press briefing so he can suggest that social distancing is no longer needed. He's playing with fire, yet again. Too bad the press didn't grab those chairs and drag them back to a safe distance while Trump was blathering from his pulpit.

https://deadline.com/2020/06/donald-trump-coronavirus-jon-karl-jim-acosta-1202951988/

President Donald Trump made a last-minute appearance before the press in the Rose Garden to tout the latest unemployment figures, but viewers saw a difference from previous events: Reporters were placed closer together.

CNN’s Jim Acosta noted that chairs for the press originally were distanced apart as they have been for previous Rose Garden events during the coronavirus crisis. But they were moved just before Trump went on TV.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 05, 2020, 04:07:51 pm
And if you thought he couldn't get any more ridiculous, Trump goes into the Rose Garden and claims the he thinks George Floyd must be looking down from heaven and saying it's a great thing happening for the country since the current job report showed positive results. Did donny forget just how Floyd left this world? Jazuz!


"Hopefully George is looking down right now and saying this is a great thing that's happening for our country," Trump said.
"It's a great day for him. It's a great day for everybody," Trump said, adding that it "is a great, great day in terms of equality."

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-hopes-george-floyd-is-looking-down-and-admiring-us-economy-2020-6
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 05, 2020, 06:50:43 pm
U.S. jobs report represents 'a great day' for George Floyd, Trump says

ummm...  has he completely lost the plot?  I think he's fkn senile.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on June 05, 2020, 07:22:49 pm
U.S. jobs report represents 'a great day' for George Floyd, Trump says

ummm...  has he completely lost the plot?  I think he's fkn senile.
Except that’s not what he said.  You guys shouldn’t have to rely on fake news so much if Trump is so bad.

Washington Post Retracts Claim President Trump Called Jobs Report ‘Great’ for George Floyd
https://www.mediaite.com/news/washington-post-retracts-claim-president-called-jobs-report-great-for-george-floyd/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on June 05, 2020, 07:25:09 pm
Black and Hispanic unemployment rates were at record lows under Trump.  He’s right about equality.  The Dems wanted the lockdown to continue.  Unfortunately the economy will rebound bigly before November.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 05, 2020, 07:30:29 pm
Except that’s not what he said.  You guys shouldn’t have to rely on fake news so much if Trump is so bad.

Washington Post Retracts Claim President Trump Called Jobs Report ‘Great’ for George Floyd
https://www.mediaite.com/news/washington-post-retracts-claim-president-called-jobs-report-great-for-george-floyd/

Maybe take a look a thte video and get back to us. It's exactly what he says.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-floyd-economic-report-1.5600068
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 05, 2020, 07:40:05 pm
Black and Hispanic unemployment rates were at record lows under Trump.  He’s right about equality.  The Dems wanted the lockdown to continue.  Unfortunately the economy will rebound bigly before November.

Sorry but no, the latest jobs report was not so good for blacks or hispanics.

Black unemployment in May represented the highest rate in more than a decade, according to an analysis of BLS statistics by Bloomberg.

The report also showed a 17.6 percent unemployment rate for Hispanics in May, an improvement from the 18.9 percent rate a month prior, but still the highest among all racial and ethnic groups surveyed by the BLS.

https://thehill.com/latino/501325-black-unemployment-hits-highest-rate-in-more-than-a-decade
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 05, 2020, 08:56:57 pm
Trump was talking about the jobs report then said "Hopefully George is looking down right now and saying, 'This is a great thing that’s happening for our country.' This is a great day for him. It’s a great day for everybody."

Shady won't respond if you ask him for an alternative explanation as to what he meant by "this".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 05, 2020, 09:04:52 pm
Trump was talking about the jobs report then said "Hopefully George is looking down right now and saying, 'This is a great thing that’s happening for our country.' This is a great day for him. It’s a great day for everybody."

Shady won't respond if you ask him for an alternative explanation as to what he meant by "this".

Of course not. Once the video of trump's actual statements was presented for his listening pleasure, he hightailed it back to you know where.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 06, 2020, 06:24:55 am
Well it's digusting that he evoked Floyd's name...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnk0hCgmamQ

But I didn't understand what I meant, anyway.  Why is he hopefully smiling ?  Equality ?  The protests ?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 06, 2020, 01:46:17 pm
Trump's great day - a Fox News perspective!  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/fF4kOgQ.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 06, 2020, 03:24:39 pm
Looks like Donny jumped the gun a little when he headed off on his "victory lap" over the May unemployment report. Oops!

In its monthly jobs report released Friday, the BLS showed the US unemployment rate fell to 13.3% in May, as the economy gained 2.5 million jobs. Capitalizing on the good news, Trump took a victory lap Friday, touting the lower unemployment numbers as the nation deals with health and economic crises and major protests over racial injustice.
BLS, however, noted its data collectors — for the third month in a row — misclassified some workers as "employed not at work," when they should have been classified as "unemployed on temporary layoff."
Barring that issue, the unemployment rate could have been as high as 19.2% in April and 16.1% in May, not including seasonal adjustments, the BLS said.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/06/politics/seth-harris-may-jobs-report-misclassification-error-cnntv/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 06, 2020, 08:02:09 pm
no less than Twitter's CEO himself responds to one of Trump's latest lying whines:

(https://i.imgur.com/EJc0lHN.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 06, 2020, 09:21:11 pm
Well it's digusting that he evoked Floyd's name...

But I didn't understand what I meant, anyway.  Why is he hopefully smiling ?  Equality ?  The protests ?

(https://i.imgur.com/YI1Ryoq.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 07, 2020, 11:42:34 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VBevEYELQ0
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 07, 2020, 11:50:47 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VBevEYELQ0

Good one. You should post that over at mlw. That'll get a rise out of the trumpsters over there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 07, 2020, 12:12:30 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/KXxmRa1.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on June 08, 2020, 07:15:54 am
He's been pretty quiet since his walk in the park.  :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 08, 2020, 08:14:10 am
He's been pretty quiet since his walk in the park.  :D

To be honest, I have made the decision that I don't understand America.  In retrospect, it was crazy to think I could understand it through op-ed articles and network/cable news.

So, maybe sending troops in to quell peaceful protest was the straw that broke the camel's back for the 'silent majority'.  On the other hand, maybe it isn't.  Who knows and who cares really.   We trade with China and SA so we will continue to trade with them also...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on June 08, 2020, 08:31:34 am
To be honest, I have made the decision that I don't understand America.  In retrospect, it was crazy to think I could understand it through op-ed articles and network/cable news.

So, maybe sending troops in to quell peaceful protest was the straw that broke the camel's back for the 'silent majority'.  On the other hand, maybe it isn't.  Who knows and who cares really.   We trade with China and SA so we will continue to trade with them also...

JT had that moment where a he was being goaded into criticizing Trump. He stayed silent for 21 seconds then said some canned comment that didn't criticize Trump.

Jagmeet Singh said something on QP that is sort of true. Trump wouldn't damage the economy in States that rely on trade with Canada just because JT said something critical of him.

He certainly hasn't yet. In fact Trump has been more magnanimous about JT than any of his opponents here. Even JT had his little **** talking session at the G7, Trump really didn't get all that upset about it.

Trade with the US will happen regardless of who the leader of either country is. It's in both nation's interest.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on June 09, 2020, 02:57:12 pm
This is one of those Trump Tweets that you aren't sure is real when you first see it. Like is he that crazy?

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/trump-pushes-unfounded-conspiracy-theory-about-buffalo-protester-1.4976260

(https://i.cbc.ca/1.5604514.1591723842!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_1180/trump-buffalo.jpg)

Even if the old man was an ANTIFA plant, how would the cops that assaulted him know that?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on June 09, 2020, 03:18:47 pm
This is one of those Trump Tweets that you aren't sure is real when you first see it. Like is he that crazy?

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/trump-pushes-unfounded-conspiracy-theory-about-buffalo-protester-1.4976260

(https://i.cbc.ca/1.5604514.1591723842!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_1180/trump-buffalo.jpg)

Even if the old man was an ANTIFA plant, how would the cops that assaulted him know that?
I’m pretty sure everyone already knows Trump is an a-hole.  I think that was proven and evident 4 years ago.  Not sure if this is realky news anymore. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 09, 2020, 03:46:33 pm
Donald Trump is the 2nd coming of Christ.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 09, 2020, 03:54:48 pm
I’m pretty sure everyone already knows Trump is an a-hole.  I think that was proven and evident 4 years ago.  Not sure if this is realky news anymore.
That's not being just an ****. That's also being an unfit conspiracy theorist lunatic. I can see why you would want that information buried. It makes your support for him look pretty stupid.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on June 09, 2020, 05:21:32 pm
That's not being just an ****. That's also being an unfit conspiracy theorist lunatic. I can see why you would want that information buried. It makes your support for him look pretty stupid.
It’s no worse than Democrat conspiracy theories.  Regardless I support policy not personal behaviour.  Personal behaviour doesn’t impact people’s day to day lives.  Policy does.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 09, 2020, 05:27:50 pm
Regardless I support policy not personal behaviour.  Personal behaviour doesn’t impact people’s day to day lives.  Policy does.

wait, what? You're claiming Cheeto's personal bizarro behaviour doesn't impact upon American's day-to-day lives? Really? From your Canadian perspective, as impacting upon Canada (directly or indirectly), what Trump policies do you personally support? Just the high-points... no need to get into the weeds!  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 09, 2020, 05:29:50 pm
1. It’s no worse than Democrat conspiracy theories. 
2. Regardless I support policy not personal behaviour. 
3. Personal behaviour doesn’t impact people’s day to day lives.  Policy does.
1. Goalposts on the move.... 'Democrat' theories vs 'Batshit crazy stuff the president actually posted'
2. Sure.. right... and conservatives have never commented on personal behaviour, or the tan coloured suits of previous presidents
3. When you are the president your personal behaviour impacts millions, even when you are normal and sane.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 12, 2020, 11:48:53 am
Trump was just so done with those most inconvenient daily White House COVID-19 briefings - although he/admin treated them as a substitute for his coveted rallies, that question/answer component with media just messed with 'the message'.

so, of course, OPEN-UP became the mantra... must get back to mass rallies - and the first is scheduled for next week, Friday June 19th in Tulsa Oklahoma at the 19,000 seat BOK Center; but one with a COVID-19 liability waiver! Geezaz, will Trumpalos even see... even read... even care about registering for the event with an implied liability waiver?

(https://i.imgur.com/13sTw4E.png)

waldo wonder: will the honorable member from Oklaberta attend... will the BuffaloGal provide on-site coverage? (https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2020/04/28/conservative-mp-michelle-rempel-working-in-oklahoma-during-pandemic.html)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Granny on June 13, 2020, 07:15:08 pm
According to Trump campaign, 200-300k requests for tkts, 50k expected, 19k capacity of the indoor venue.

Sounds like a viral bash.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-rally-tulsa-indoor-arena-super-spreader-event-2020-6
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on June 15, 2020, 08:07:10 am
According to Trump campaign, 200-300k requests for tkts, 50k expected, 19k capacity of the indoor venue.

Sounds like a viral bash.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-rally-tulsa-indoor-arena-super-spreader-event-2020-6

Especially since mask wearing is for commies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 16, 2020, 11:25:06 pm
Trump proved himself to be nothing more than a blatherskype yet again today with his babble around his signing of his "police reform" bill. He said essentially nothing as to police reform, but rather wasted time trying to attack Obama, Biden, and other of his predecessors in what was a blatantly obvious attempt at a campaign speech. And he seems to be in bad enough shape physically as well as mentally since he has trouble stepping down steps, or raising a glass of water. I wonder if the same idiots that voted for him before will do so once again come November. I bet they will, and therefore deserve the continuation down the road to be the laughing stock of the world.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on June 20, 2020, 03:27:17 pm
Anybody else watching the rally tonight?  I think it’s gonna be super entertaining.  I stocked up on snacks n drinks.  It’s must see tv!  I can’t wait!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 20, 2020, 03:49:20 pm
Anybody else watching the rally tonight?  I think it’s gonna be super entertaining.  I stocked up on snacks n drinks.  It’s must see tv!  I can’t wait!

(https://i.imgur.com/VqKI5Pf.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on June 20, 2020, 04:11:11 pm
Hmmm cyanide is 99.9% fatal.  The Wuhan coronavirus is 0.3-0.5% fatal.  Yep, just like a death cult!  Now go out and protest ten of thousands packed in like sardines!
#FuckingHypocrites
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 20, 2020, 04:30:45 pm
Hmmm cyanide is 99.9% fatal.  The Wuhan coronavirus is 0.3-0.5% fatal.  Yep, just like a death cult!  Now go out and protest ten of thousands packed in like sardines!
#FuckingHypocrites

oh my! Does your post lose anything when you include an unrelated image... one that's from 2018 Washington DC's, 'The March for Our Lives - a student-led demonstration in support of legislation to prevent gun violence in the U.S.'?

(https://i.imgur.com/0MZMRor.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2020, 05:22:20 pm
Anybody else watching the rally tonight?  I think it’s gonna be super entertaining.  I stocked up on snacks n drinks.  It’s must see tv!  I can’t wait!

Hey why not head for Tulsa and show your support. I'm sure you're strong enough to survive covid-19 eh?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on June 20, 2020, 06:48:17 pm
Hey why not head for Tulsa and show your support. I'm sure you're strong enough to survive covid-19 eh?
Probably, since over 99% of people are.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 20, 2020, 06:48:25 pm
Hmmm cyanide is 99.9% fatal.  The Wuhan coronavirus is 0.3-0.5% fatal.  Yep, just like a death cult!  Now go out and protest ten of thousands packed in like sardines!
#FuckingHypocrites
(Attachment Link)
You don't think it's being a **** hypocrite to say that outdoor activities are safe and then whine about protesters being outside and posting fake news pictures of them, while cheering on Donald for helping turn his country into even more of a shithole than it already was by doing the most irresponsible thing he could possibly do?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 20, 2020, 06:49:41 pm
Probably, since over 99% of people are.
So now you're against preventative measures like not having unnecessary rallies? Whatever Trump says, I guess.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 20, 2020, 08:24:22 pm
Probably, since over 99% of people are.

People 65 and older represent almost 20% of the population. People younger than 65 with conditions that make them high risk probably represent at least another 15%. So no.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 20, 2020, 08:33:35 pm
Anybody else watching the rally tonight?  I think it’s gonna be super entertaining.  I stocked up on snacks n drinks.  It’s must see tv!  I can’t wait!
oh my! Does your post lose anything when you include an unrelated image... one that's from 2018 Washington DC's, 'The March for Our Lives - a student-led demonstration in support of legislation to prevent gun violence in the U.S.'?

member Shady, don't forget to comment back on your use of a 2-year dated image that has nothing to do with recent protests!

but c'mon, the Trump campaign has been hyping this Tulsa rally for the last couple of weeks - claiming to have had almost a million requests for tickets! So... after the rather anemic crowd number from tonight (just 12,000 in the 19,000 arena), the Trump campaign is blaming the lower number on "the media and protestors"! Imagine having to shut down the so-called "overflow area" outside the arena... cause no one showed up!  ;D

and what the hell! Neither CNN or MSNBC covered it! Not this round Trumpy - no free ride; no $millions of free publicity from the media this year, hey!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 20, 2020, 10:42:03 pm
Apparently bad people were preventing Trumpists from getting in...  oh and the media... 

Of course, nothing of the sort even happend...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 21, 2020, 07:00:36 am
What a failure. 

The crowd cheered his amazing virility for drinking a glass of water.  And he drank it with the right hand this time, presumably because he can't left a pint glass of water with his left hand.     

The Trumpists stayed away and there were folks in the audience with masks.  This, in the heart of Trump country. 

The party is o'er...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 21, 2020, 07:14:08 am
but c'mon, the Trump campaign has been hyping this Tulsa rally for the last couple of weeks - claiming to have had almost a million requests for tickets! So... after the rather anemic crowd number from tonight (just 12,000 in the 19,000 arena), the Trump campaign is blaming the lower number on "the media and protestors"! Imagine having to shut down the so-called "overflow area" outside the arena... cause no one showed up!  ;D

and what the hell! Neither CNN or MSNBC covered it! Not this round Trumpy - no free ride; no $millions of free publicity from the media this year, hey!

oh my - early number estimates were even inflated!

(https://i.imgur.com/9SEbyAC.png) (https://i.imgur.com/rSzJ1IV.jpg)

bonus numbers: 6 Trump campaign staffers tested COVID-19 positive
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 21, 2020, 07:27:28 am
"The Wiggles" sold out the Tulsa arena when they came.. (https://www.tulsatoday.com/2009/08/04/joomla-801/)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Granny on June 21, 2020, 07:39:02 am
Truth up!
A bunch of young people flooded the Trump rally website with (a million?) ticket requests.
They didn't show up, of course.

And neither did many Trump fans.

Trump was his usual muddled and incoherent blob. It's rather pathetic watching a sociopath implode into a whining hot mess.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 21, 2020, 07:43:56 am
Truth up!

A bunch of young people flooded the Trump rally website with (a million?) ticket requests. They didn't show up, of course.

Quote
One probable reason for the inflated ticket registration figure was a concerted effort by teenagers on the social media app TikTok to reserve seats at the rally in an effort to create empty seats. Numerous TikTokers posted videos encouraging their followers to register for tickets to deny spots from supporters of the president. They in turn recruited ‘Kpop stans,’ fans of Korean pop music, a massive and active community on social media, to do the same. While it is unlikely this effort denied people any seats, as the rally was first come first serve, it may have accounted for substantial chunk of the ticket registrations.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Granny on June 21, 2020, 07:53:24 am
Trump fans did not flock to Tilsa as Trump had hoped.  Lol
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on June 21, 2020, 11:48:25 am
It was still a great event, especially on tv.  Next time they’ll make sure to give out tickets directly to supporters.  It looks like foreign interference in the election took place and bought up block tickets.  It’s funny how leftists don’t mind foreign interference it’s in their favour.  Just more rank hypocrisy from these **** hypocrites.  Btw, Biden’s event was pretty successful too! 😂🤣

Bwaaahaaaa

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on June 21, 2020, 11:49:06 am
Trump fans did not flock to Tilsa as Trump had hoped.  Lol
Yeah, I guess foreign interference in an election is ok now right?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 21, 2020, 12:05:54 pm
Btw, Biden’s event was pretty successful too! 😂🤣

way to parrot your boy!  ;D --- of course that wasn't a Biden rally, wasn't open to the public. Geezaz member Shady, you're quite the purveyor of Fake News!

(https://i.imgur.com/gh3uISN.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on June 21, 2020, 12:12:44 pm
Btw, leftists specialty is infringing on people’s constitutional rights.  They brag about it now!  #Sad
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 21, 2020, 12:18:24 pm
Yeah, I guess foreign interference in an election is ok now right?

nice try! The Trump campaign did not put a cap ceiling on tickets... they were always available, first come, first served! Registrations meant nothing to actual available tickets.

but really member Shady - Trump's doofus campaign manager touted those registrations (over a million he said) as an indication of interest... of the pending overflow crowds - that never materialized! Apparently, the much touted 'Death Star' didn't have the wherewithal to realize the youngin's had active concentrated campaigns working to jack those registration numbers! Of course all those European registrations meant Europeans were intending to travel to Tulsa, Oklahoma!  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/IUcYYWH.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 21, 2020, 04:14:21 pm
Btw, leftists specialty is infringing on people’s constitutional rights.  They brag about it now!  #Sad

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/trump-rally-protest-tulsa-oklahoma-arrest-protester-a9577546.html

Trump campaign told police to remove peaceful protester arrested outside Tulsa rally
Woman wearing 'I Can't Breathe' T-shirt dragged from area at campaign staff's 'request'
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 21, 2020, 05:42:11 pm
Btw, leftists specialty is infringing on people’s constitutional rights.  They brag about it now!  #Sad

Sounds like you're buying more of Trump's bullshit, this time that it was protesters who stopped people from filling at least 2/3rds of the seats at his little racist rally. Do you also agree we should slow testing so we don't reveal more covid cases? Jayzuz krist sir! If you can't see what an idiot trump is from his latest speech than I guess there's no help for ya.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 21, 2020, 06:33:19 pm
a long running gag/meme (at Trump's expense) has been to ridicule Trump for the many, many times he's been captured in print/video drinking a glass/bottle of water with 2... with both hands! The most recent ridiculing meme is of Trump's exit from his speech given to this years West Point graduating class... with the most frail and decrepit looking Trump "walking" down a minimum incline ramp. Of course, Trump is bigly pissed at these jokes and repeatedly speaks of how unfair and wrong they are. He just can't ignore them - such a overly sensitive buffoon!

enjoy another play on the ramp meme... with excerpts from yesterday's Tulsa MAGA rally... where Trump apparently spent 12 minutes - 12 minutes talking about his ramp walk!  ;D (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1274560636987400192/pu/vid/1280x720/vIt19rODIWfTcRJP.mp4)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 22, 2020, 09:12:38 pm
On the bright side, fears that the Tulsa rally would become a super-spreader event appear to have been unwarranted.  Based on attendance figures, it sounds like it was more like a mini-spreader event, or perhaps a micro-spreader event.

"Unnamed sources" claim that Trump was livid when he looked out and saw rows and rows of empty seats in the arena, and was late going on stage because he was ranting and raving at his staffers for not giving him the full arena he expected. Ivanka and Jared are furious at campaign manager Brad Parscale.  Somebody asked Parscale if he was worried about being fired, and he said something like "I've been fired 85 weeks in a row."

Two explanations for the low turnout:
 -there are only 6200 people dumb enough to believe Trump's claims that coronavirus is over, or
 -there are only 6200 people who still care enough about dumbo to bother going to the rally.
Both factors come into play, of course, but neither is good news for Trump.

The Lincoln Project put out another ad yesterday, making fun of Trump's teeny tiny little rally. "It's so much smaller than we expected," a female voice says, among a bunch of other small-**** innuendo that's sure to make Trump even madder.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on June 22, 2020, 11:33:56 pm
Anybody else watching the rally tonight?  I think it’s gonna be super entertaining.  I stocked up on snacks n drinks.  It’s must see tv!  I can’t wait!

It really was entertaining.  Best thing I've seen all year.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 22, 2020, 11:37:50 pm
And what happens if his turnout is just as flacid at the next gig in Arizona? He'll really be pissed, again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Granny on June 22, 2020, 11:58:03 pm
Btw, leftists specialty is infringing on people’s constitutional rights.  They brag about it now!  #Sad

Well, Trump says that didn't affect attendance much. He says his supporters were afraid of the "protesters".
But there weren't many.
It seems people just didn't want to go to Donnie's rally.
#Sad
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 24, 2020, 11:44:51 pm
Well, Trump says that didn't affect attendance much. He says his supporters were afraid of the "protesters".
But there weren't many.
It seems people just didn't want to go to Donnie's rally.
#Sad

I would disagree to the extent it's not "sad". I think it's somewhat uplifting that people, even those who were supporters, have finally come to their senses and decided they would not go out and risk their health to simply listen to this paranoid schizo liar contradict himself once again and make more ridiculously stupid comments relateing especially to the current situation. Perhaps even trumptards are waking up at least a little.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 25, 2020, 04:00:24 pm
1. I think it's somewhat uplifting that people, even those who were supporters, have finally come to their senses and decided they would not go out and risk their health to simply listen to this paranoid schizo liar contradict himself once again and make more ridiculously stupid comments relateing especially to the current situation.

2. Perhaps even trumptards are waking up at least a little.

1. Agree.  Especially with "somewhat"... It's somewhat uplifting since: they fell for the bullshit in the first place; the system didn't prevent him f*cking with it; he's not at 0% in the polls; there's no indicating that anyone has learned ANYTHING.

2. To be determined.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on June 26, 2020, 01:46:41 am
People have been talking about Trump's sad, low-energy rally. And about Bolton's book, and Mary Trump's book.  That's all fine, but it's a distraction from Trump's firing of the New York prosecutor on the weekend.

The notion that the President is not above the law becomes rather comical if the President can simply fire prosecutors and auditors whenever he feels like it.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 26, 2020, 05:49:54 am
People have been talking about Trump's sad, low-energy rally. And about Bolton's book, and Mary Trump's book.  That's all fine, but it's a distraction from Trump's firing of the New York prosecutor on the weekend.

The notion that the President is not above the law becomes rather comical if the President can simply fire prosecutors and auditors whenever he feels like it.

 -k

Even worse, Trump says he didn't fire him and the AG says the same thing.  The guy just mysteriously was let go.  Nothing suspicious there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on June 26, 2020, 08:00:08 am
People have been talking about Trump's sad, low-energy rally. And about Bolton's book, and Mary Trump's book.  That's all fine, but it's a distraction from Trump's firing of the New York prosecutor on the weekend.

The notion that the President is not above the law becomes rather comical if the President can simply fire prosecutors and auditors whenever he feels like it.

 -k

It's quite possible that Trump considers his election defeat an inevitability. He's going to spend his last 6 months in office to fulfill all of Putin's To-Do's he can. See removing troops from Germany.

Also trying to strike down ObamaCare. . . yet again.  ::)
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/26/883819835/obamacare-must-fall-trump-administration-tells-supreme-court
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 26, 2020, 09:06:44 am
I also noticed FOX news' website doesn't give much attention to the fact that COVID CASES ARE BREAKING RECORDS AGAIN IN THE USA
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on June 26, 2020, 09:13:28 am
I also noticed FOX news' website doesn't give much attention to the fact that COVID CASES ARE BREAKING RECORDS AGAIN IN THE USA

Tearing down statues is much more important.

Jesus Christ statues will be taken down if Biden gets elected!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 26, 2020, 10:56:44 am
It's quite possible that Trump considers his election defeat an inevitability. He's going to spend his last 6 months in office to fulfill all of Putin's To-Do's he can. See removing troops from Germany.

Also trying to strike down ObamaCare. . . yet again.  ::)
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/26/883819835/obamacare-must-fall-trump-administration-tells-supreme-court

I suspect you are correct and Trump is wrestling with the idea that he will end up being a one trick pony and is bothering the hell out of his extremely over inflated ego. I think also he is showing signs of pre-senile dementia and when you add those two issues together you end up with the "strangeness" we see emanating from him daily. "If we slowed our testing we'd have less positive results" etc.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on June 26, 2020, 12:20:50 pm
Trump supporters take him seriously, but not literally.  Never Trumpers take him literally, but not seriously.  You guys keep getting sucked in by him constantly, hook, line and sinker.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on June 26, 2020, 12:26:03 pm
Trump supporters take him seriously, but not literally.  Never Trumpers take him literally, but not seriously.  You guys keep getting sucked in by him constantly, hook, line and sinker.

So like when he said "Slow Testing Down". Then said "I Don't Kid". Then closed federally funded testing site?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on June 26, 2020, 12:26:49 pm
So like when he said "Slow Testing Down". Then said "I Don't Kid".
Yes, exactly.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on June 26, 2020, 12:29:48 pm
Tearing down statues is much more important.

Jesus Christ statues will be taken down if Biden gets elected!
No, those have already been taken down by athiests.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on June 26, 2020, 12:32:14 pm
Yes, exactly.

He affirmed that he'd like testing to be slowed. It's making him look bad.

He Tweeted about it multiple times.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on June 26, 2020, 12:43:17 pm
He affirmed that he'd like testing to be slowed. It's making him look bad.

He Tweeted about it multiple times.
Again, you're taking him seriously.  He continues to be a mystery to you people.  Eventually you'll figure him out.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 26, 2020, 01:04:12 pm
If you're not deep in the clown cult, you can never really understand having a clown as your leader.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on June 26, 2020, 02:39:02 pm
If you're not deep in the clown cult, you can never really understand having a clown as your leader.
Really?  We have a blackface wearing ex-drama teacher as our leader.  We're pretty deep into the clown cult as well.  I like it when he shows other leaders his Superman socks!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 26, 2020, 02:47:30 pm
Really?  We have a blackface wearing ex-drama teacher as our leader.  We're pretty deep into the clown cult as well.  I like it when he shows other leaders his Superman socks!
No, I think if Trudeau had an indoor rally in the middle of a pandemic, you wouldn't find anyone defending him. And no one makes ridiculous teenage arguments like "you just don't understand clowns" to defend him. That would just be embarrassing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 27, 2020, 05:03:19 am
Our leaders are mediocre but still are equipped with basic values.

If we're saying that Trump likes to aggravate liberals well ok but what about his actual character?

Watch this unbelievable statement and the reaction from his trained seals:

https://youtu.be/XcKUtpROEC0
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 27, 2020, 08:34:08 am
Our leaders are mediocre but still are equipped with basic values.

If we're saying that Trump likes to aggravate liberals well ok but what about his actual character?

Watch this unbelievable statement and the reaction from his trained seals:

https://youtu.be/XcKUtpROEC0

It's amazing but I think most of us have come to understand how trump's ego completely demolishes his character, however it's the group of trained seals that buy his horseshit that is alarming.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 27, 2020, 08:46:25 am
Attaboy donny Robert E Lee would be proud of ya, ya honky.



U.S. President Donald Trump signed an executive order Friday to protect monuments, memorials and statues facing new scrutiny amid fresh debate over the nation's racist beginnings.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-monuments-executive-order-1.5629912
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 28, 2020, 11:32:22 am
Attaboy donny Robert E Lee would be proud of ya, ya honky.

U.S. President Donald Trump signed an executive order Friday to protect monuments, memorials and statues facing new scrutiny amid fresh debate over the nation's racist beginnings.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-monuments-executive-order-1.5629912

Governments are free to remove public statues if they so choose.  Nothing wrong with that.  Individuals are not free to illegally vandalize or tear them down statues that are public property on their whim, and they should be prosecuted appropriately.  Nothing is controversial or racist about that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 28, 2020, 12:25:03 pm
Governments are free to remove public statues if they so choose.  Nothing wrong with that.  Individuals are not free to illegally vandalize or tear them down statues that are public property on their whim, and they should be prosecuted appropriately.  Nothing is controversial or racist about that.

As I have already stated, I think one reason to keep those statues/monuments is not to celebrate, but to congtinue to reming america of it's racist history, and hopefully begin to curb it's current existence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 29, 2020, 01:11:55 am
Trump retweets supporter shouting “white power”. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 29, 2020, 10:25:36 am
Trump retweets supporter shouting “white power”.

He took it down shortly after and one excuse I heard put forward is that trump simply didn't listen to the whole content of the video and sent it out as soon as he heard support for himself. Call me paranoid but I wouldn't doubt he knew exactly what the whole content amounted to and aired it anyway as a quick reminder to his base, then removed it with a wink and a nod. I have no douibt he's a racist.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on June 29, 2020, 11:07:26 am
He took it down shortly after and one excuse I heard put forward is that trump simply didn't listen to the whole content of the video and sent it out as soon as he heard support for himself. Call me paranoid but I wouldn't doubt he knew exactly what the whole content amounted to and aired it anyway as a quick reminder to his base, then removed it with a wink and a nod. I have no douibt he's a racist.

It's totally believable that he didn't watch the video.

He usually doesn't take anything down. Had he posted a White Power video on purpose, I don't think he'd have taken it down.

Either way, it's either racism or incompetence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 29, 2020, 11:53:23 am
He retweeted the video of these ridiculous people.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/couple-draw-guns-crowd-heading-st-louis-mayors-71506657?cid=social_twitter_abcn

President Trump on Monday shared a video on Twitter of a white couple pointing firearms at a group of protesters in St. Louis who were marching to the mayor's residence to demand her resignation.

So they are peaceful protestors and Mr. Pink LaCoste and Whipped-Cream Khaki Pants and Gold-Plated Gun Karen will never be charged.

You have to be blind (IMO) to not see where this is going.  There is NOTHING in the way of open civil violence between groups down there.   

But I also know that it's not my country so I am focussing on events at home these days.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on June 29, 2020, 12:42:23 pm
He retweeted the video of these ridiculous people.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/couple-draw-guns-crowd-heading-st-louis-mayors-71506657?cid=social_twitter_abcn

President Trump on Monday shared a video on Twitter of a white couple pointing firearms at a group of protesters in St. Louis who were marching to the mayor's residence to demand her resignation.

So they are peaceful protestors and Mr. Pink LaCoste and Whipped-Cream Khaki Pants and Gold-Plated Gun Karen will never be charged.

You have to be blind (IMO) to not see where this is going.  There is NOTHING in the way of open civil violence between groups down there.   

But I also know that it's not my country so I am focussing on events at home these days.

Dude with an assault rifle along side his trophy wife with a tiny pistol is so funny to me.

I know it's not funny, this culture war in the US is a problem, but man that couple with their guns are SO FUNNY!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 29, 2020, 01:13:28 pm
Dude with an assault rifle along side his trophy wife with a tiny pistol is so funny to me.
You are very generous in your application of trophy wife status.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on June 29, 2020, 01:15:25 pm
You are very generous in your application of trophy wife status.

Point taken. But it's a very short man.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 29, 2020, 01:23:35 pm
It's totally believable that he didn't watch the video.

He usually doesn't take anything down. Had he posted a White Power video on purpose, I don't think he'd have taken it down.

Either way, it's either racism or incompetence.
I find it hard to believe he knew the white power thing was in there or that he watched the whole video.  He has the attention span of a squirrel.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 29, 2020, 01:26:09 pm
I find it hard to believe he knew the white power thing was in there or that he watched the whole video.  He has the attention span of a squirrel.

He wanted to let his base know he's supports "White Power" heading into election time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on June 29, 2020, 01:28:59 pm
He wanted to let his base know he's supports "White Power" heading into election time.

I think they're pretty confident in his support.

Note, Trump never said that the White Power thing was unacceptable. He just claimed he never saw it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 29, 2020, 03:12:27 pm
I think they're pretty confident in his support.

Note, Trump never said that the White Power thing was unacceptable. He just claimed he never saw it.

He also says he never heard there was a bounty on US troops serving abroad. Apparently he doesn't see how those issues underscore his ineptitude.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 29, 2020, 05:05:46 pm
I find it hard to believe he knew the white power thing was in there or that he watched the whole video.  He has the attention span of a squirrel.

It was 9 seconds into the video....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 29, 2020, 08:06:07 pm
It was 9 seconds into the video....

Yeah no excuse for that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 29, 2020, 10:33:28 pm
Here's where the **** is really gonna hit the fan for trump, he was advised that US troops were being targeted in Afghanistan for bounties, and did nothing about it. Putin has outsmarted donny numerous times and now putin can flick him off like a fly off a cows ass.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on June 30, 2020, 07:26:04 am
Here's where the **** is really gonna hit the fan for trump, he was advised that US troops were being targeted in Afghanistan for bounties, and did nothing about it. Putin has outsmarted donny numerous times and now putin can flick him off like a fly off a cows ass.

Trump will just deny the intelligence as a Deep State plot.

A "Hit Job" by the Dems.

The only way it will change is if GOP Senators denounce him en masse.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 30, 2020, 11:59:08 am
People 65 and older represent almost 20% of the population. People younger than 65 with conditions that make them high risk probably represent at least another 15%. So no.
People under 65 who are strong and healthy, but survive are also very likely to have long-term healthy consequences such as kidney failure (how does a lifetime of dialysis sound?) and diminished lung capacity. You know, but whatever....you probably won't die.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on June 30, 2020, 12:00:52 pm
Really?  We have a blackface wearing ex-drama teacher as our leader.  We're pretty deep into the clown cult as well.  I like it when he shows other leaders his Superman socks!
"Pay no attention to the sad orange clown behind the curtain!"

Classic Shady deflection.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 30, 2020, 12:58:42 pm
Trump will just deny the intelligence as a Deep State plot.

A "Hit Job" by the Dems.

The only way it will change is if GOP Senators denounce him en masse.

I'll be honest, I don't know what to believe anymore.  An anonymous source isn't evidence.  But I think NYT has said they have 2 anonymous sources on this story.

But it's interesting this story comes out when the US is finalizing a move to remove half the remaining troops left in Afghanistan.  The War Party doesn't like that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 26, 2020, 04:32:19 pm
Covid rages on in the US while trump pisses away yet another week end playing golf and then throwing out hats on his return, demonstrating yet again what a useless prick he really is. Biden must be looking at the latest polls and giggling. All he has to do is wear his mask responsibly and let donny drive the polls further in his favor and prepare to head to the WH in a hundred days.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 28, 2020, 01:11:54 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmdGRuWJ8dM

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 28, 2020, 01:14:03 am
(https://i.imgur.com/yK47vzh.png)

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 28, 2020, 01:38:14 am
...because he's COGNITIVELY THERE~~!

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on July 29, 2020, 10:28:51 pm
America has to be the most messed up 'first world' country on the planet. They had nearly 1500 COVID deaths today.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 29, 2020, 10:56:01 pm
...because he's COGNITIVELY THERE~~!

 -k

He took the test in 2018.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on July 30, 2020, 12:12:50 pm
Trump took one step towards dictator today.

Claiming that the election should be delayed. He's peddling this idea that vote by mail is fraudulent. Even though it's perfectly legal.

The irony is that his voters are way more likely to need to vote by mail.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 30, 2020, 12:29:19 pm
Trump took one step towards dictator today.

Claiming that the election should be delayed. He's peddling this idea that vote by mail is fraudulent. Even though it's perfectly legal.

The irony is that his voters are way more likely to need to vote by mail.

Apparently only Congress can delay an election. I'm sure Nancy will get right on it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on July 30, 2020, 12:49:35 pm
Apparently only Congress can delay an election. I'm sure Nancy will get right on it.

Oh it won't happen. Thankfully the HoR is under Democrat control. But he's obviously sowing the seeds of doubt should he be trounced in November.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on July 30, 2020, 12:52:56 pm
Oh it won't happen. Thankfully the HoR is under Democrat control. But he's obviously sowing the seeds of doubt should he be trounced in November.

Republicans are rejecting it as well. Even Moscow Mitch says it is a non starter.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 30, 2020, 05:15:40 pm
Oh it won't happen. Thankfully the HoR is under Democrat control. But he's obviously sowing the seeds of doubt should he be trounced in November.

Which current polling indicates will happen. I would so enjoy watching the secret service going into the Oval Office and pinning the cuffs on Donny and escorting him out if he tries to refuse to leave.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on July 30, 2020, 10:56:23 pm
Which current polling indicates will happen. I would so enjoy watching the secret service going into the Oval Office and pinning the cuffs on Donny and escorting him out if he tries to refuse to leave.

US Marshals.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 30, 2020, 11:18:56 pm
US Marshals.

Trying to quash mail in ballots in the midst of the current pandemic could/should backfire on him. I imagine the current polls have the little boy peeing in his pants.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on July 31, 2020, 07:51:02 am
Trying to quash mail in ballots in the midst of the current pandemic could/should backfire on him. I imagine the current polls have the little boy peeing in his pants.

I try to make the point to MAGAheads that it's the right of every registered voter to vote by mail. An absentee ballot is a vote by mail. And in a majority of the country you can ask for and absentee ballot without having to give a reason.

Trump's base would benefit from absentee voting as much as Biden's. But he has to try and suppress the vote somehow. The more people vote the bigger chances he loses.

Technically what he's raging against is Universal Mail-In voting. In mostly western Democratic states, you get the mail-in ballot sent to you automatically. You don't even have to ask for it. There's no indication that's happening in the states that matter. A voter who doesn't want to deal with election day during a pandemic still has to request a ballot.

And if I was an American in one of these Battleground states, I'd be asking for one last month. Because you know it'll get delayed somehow.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 31, 2020, 03:07:46 pm
I try to make the point to MAGAheads that it's the right of every registered voter to vote by mail. An absentee ballot is a vote by mail. And in a majority of the country you can ask for and absentee ballot without having to give a reason.

Trump's base would benefit from absentee voting as much as Biden's. But he has to try and suppress the vote somehow. The more people vote the bigger chances he loses.

Technically what he's raging against is Universal Mail-In voting. In mostly western Democratic states, you get the mail-in ballot sent to you automatically. You don't even have to ask for it. There's no indication that's happening in the states that matter. A voter who doesn't want to deal with election day during a pandemic still has to request a ballot.

And if I was an American in one of these Battleground states, I'd be asking for one last month. Because you know it'll get delayed somehow.

His own people are now stepping up to push back against his latest idea of delaying the vote date. I guess even they have come to realize how inappropriate that scheme is and how it's only some sort of last ditch hale Mary effort to hope the polls will shift in his favor. He's losing his marbles which is, I'd say, indicated in part by his ever increasing contradictions  of himself. i'm sure November can't come soon enough to sensible Americans.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on July 31, 2020, 05:09:01 pm
It's a distraction, he knows he can't delay anything. 

He didn't go to pay respects to John Lewis and he knew Obama would have all the attention yesterday so he made a spectacle again and made it all about him. 

Haven't we learned yet?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 04, 2020, 10:10:49 am
https://www.axios.com/full-axios-hbo-interview-donald-trump-cd5a67e1-6ba1-46c8-bb3d-8717ab9f3cc5.html

Whatever Johnathan Swan is getting paid, it's not enough.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 04, 2020, 10:17:18 am
Seriously - Donald Trump is a **** MORON.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 04, 2020, 10:41:55 am
Seriously - Donald Trump is a **** MORON.

I believe he's more of a deceiver.  He knows enough to constantly steer the conversation to positive aspects of the data, after all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 04, 2020, 11:35:21 am
I believe he's more of a deceiver.  He knows enough to constantly steer the conversation to positive aspects of the data, after all.

Nope - moron.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 04, 2020, 12:19:06 pm
 100% narcissist.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 04, 2020, 04:16:19 pm
Nope - moron.

If he were a moron he wouldn't be able to steer people to data that makes him ostensibly look better.  I don't think he's smart, but not a complete idiot.  Narcissist and stupid person sure.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 04, 2020, 04:58:48 pm
100% narcissist.

He demonstrated narcissism numerous times today as he has done often, but one that especially struck me was his dismissal of John LEWIS AND NOT ATTENDING HIS FUNERAL SERVICE BY SIMPLY COMPLAINING THAT lEWIS HAD NOT ATTENDED HIS INAUGURATION.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 04, 2020, 05:31:27 pm
If he were a moron he wouldn't be able to steer people to data that makes him ostensibly look better.  I don't think he's smart, but not a complete idiot.  Narcissist and stupid person sure.
He wasn't.  He had a bunch of graphs he was told showed favourable data but he could not in any way articulate what they said or why it was favourable. He just blathered on about how you can't compare total deaths with total population without explaining why.  I doubt he came up with the graphs himself, so Total Moron.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on August 04, 2020, 06:35:08 pm
I think y'all are setting different standards for what makes someone smart.

Yes, academically, he's a complete imbecile. 

But what he lacks in mental aptitude he makes up for it with his sociopathic, narcissistic tendencies wherein he uses everyone for his personal gain and gets away with it by conning people into thinking he's smart.

As a society we don't often value traits like deceit so we think he's a moron, but let's face it, he's the master con-man.  You have to give him credit for that, even if it's a terrible trait to have.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 04, 2020, 07:32:19 pm
As a society we don't often value traits like deceit so we think he's a moron, but let's face it, he's the master con-man.

Funny....he didn't fool me for a second.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on August 04, 2020, 07:57:45 pm
Well me neither, but 40% of the US still hangs on to his every word like he's the second coming.  Because of that, and some blackmailing, Republican politicians turn a blind eye as he pillages and does whatever he wants.

It's not intelligence... but it's a skill, useful to him and his goals, and no matter how heinous of a human being he may be, I have to give him credit for his ability to manipulate for his personal gain.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 05, 2020, 06:02:14 am
He wasn't.  He had a bunch of graphs he was told showed favourable data but he could not in any way articulate what they said or why it was favourable. He just blathered on about how you can't compare total deaths with total population without explaining why.  I doubt he came up with the graphs himself, so Total Moron.

Well, thinking about this more: obviously he didn't come up with the graphs, but it was a full set of reports.  Otherwise, the reporter wouldn't have been able to point out the negative reports within the set.  He was able to attempt to highlight the positive aspects.

A huckster, a narcissist, a numbskull but not a complete moron. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 05, 2020, 08:52:03 am
Well, thinking about this more: obviously he didn't come up with the graphs, but it was a full set of reports.  Otherwise, the reporter wouldn't have been able to point out the negative reports within the set.  He was able to attempt to highlight the positive aspects.

A huckster, a narcissist, a numbskull but not a complete moron.

BECAUSE SOMEONE TOLD HIM THEY DID THAT! He had no concept of it on his own. You can just tell.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 05, 2020, 09:48:56 am
BECAUSE SOMEONE TOLD HIM THEY DID THAT! He had no concept of it on his own. You can just tell.

In his world he still was trying to flog his idea that the increase in Covid cases is due to an increase in testing. Following his logic, then a pregnancy test can make you pregnant.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 05, 2020, 10:34:13 am
BECAUSE SOMEONE TOLD HIM THEY DID THAT! He had no concept of it on his own. You can just tell.

Even if they just hilighted it on the report, he would have to understand what he was pushing. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 05, 2020, 10:45:14 am
https://www.axios.com/full-axios-hbo-interview-donald-trump-cd5a67e1-6ba1-46c8-bb3d-8717ab9f3cc5.html

Whatever Johnathan Swan is getting paid, it's not enough.

Monty Python parrot sketch! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1290578418594131969/pu/vid/1280x720/R17kdDImLAOGJpia.mp4?tag=10)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 05, 2020, 07:38:15 pm
Trump Argues with Himself:

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1290867644263014400?s=20
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 07, 2020, 10:36:17 pm
I think y'all are setting different standards for what makes someone smart.

Yes, academically, he's a complete imbecile. 

But what he lacks in mental aptitude he makes up for it with his sociopathic, narcissistic tendencies wherein he uses everyone for his personal gain and gets away with it by conning people into thinking he's smart.

As a society we don't often value traits like deceit so we think he's a moron, but let's face it, he's the master con-man.  You have to give him credit for that, even if it's a terrible trait to have.

He's not a master con-man.  Argus said it best several years ago on this site: if he wasn't born into money, he'd be a used car salesman.

 -k

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 09, 2020, 02:33:36 pm
Just hearing a report from CNN that Trump is now interested in having his face added to Mount Rushmore. Can you imagine how embarrasing that would be! Hopefully cooler heads will prevail.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 09, 2020, 05:53:28 pm
Just hearing a report from CNN that Trump is now interested in having his face added to Mount Rushmore. Can you imagine how embarrasing that would be! Hopefully cooler heads will prevail.

Actually, it would be a kind of fitting statement about the US. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 13, 2020, 11:54:40 am
Interesting article from the Rolling Stone

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/covid-19-end-of-american-era-wade-davis-1038206/

A great quote about Trump

Quote
“there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid”.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 13, 2020, 01:19:58 pm
A great quote about Trump
Quote
“there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid”.

attributed to a British writer, 'Nate Smith'... in response to the question: "Why do many British people not like Donald Trump?" The full response is most noteworthy:

(https://i.imgur.com/eeIqPiA.png)


Trump endeared himself to many Britons when he forced the 90+ year old Queen to work around his lard azz!

(https://i.imgur.com/fxFAGRQ.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 13, 2020, 02:47:23 pm
Nate White I believe but great piece.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 14, 2020, 09:48:29 pm
To stop people from voting, Trump has ordered that the USPS be hampered so that ballots can’t be sent in on time.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/m7jkxq/trump-just-admitted-hes-sabotaging-the-usps-to-screw-up-the-election

Quote
President Donald Trump said the quiet part out loud, admitting he’s intentionally withholding money from the U.S. Postal Service to undermine its ability to handle mail-in voting in the 2020 election.

“They need that money in order to make the Post Office work so it can take all of these millions and millions of ballots,” Trump said on Fox Business Thursday morning of the states that are implementing universal mail-in voting ahead of the November election. “But if they don’t get those two items, that means you can’t have universal mail-in voting, because they’re not equipped to have it.”



https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/y3zejw/the-usps-just-admitted-mail-in-ballots-in-pennsylvania-wont-be-delivered-in-time   
Quote
The U.S. Postal Service has admitted that some mail-in ballots in one of November’s key battleground states, Pennsylvania, might not be delivered in time because the state’s deadlines are too tight for its “delivery standards.”

The bombshell revelation came in a letter written by Thomas Marshall, general counsel and executive vice president of the USPS, on July 29 to Pennsylvania Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 15, 2020, 01:46:24 am
notwithstanding the actual original Trump boast/promise was to bring about an all encompassing peace agreement between Israel and Palestinians... to have been brokered by his ministerOfEverything, son-in-law Jared Kushner:

Trump "announces" recent days "normalizing relations" agreement between Israel and... one country, UAE! In actuality, an intent to normalize relations as the agreement won't be officially realized until signed "in 3 weeks". Apparently Trump needed something right now to take the shine off Biden leading in polls and the Kamala Harris announcement as VP choice. And this is how his loyal cadre of azz-kissers lined up to... kiss azz over the announcement! (https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1294024642286493714/vid/1280x720/XUtx48qr4dDyprni.mp4?tag=13) (by the by, the Palestinian authority has denounced this intent to normalize relations between Israel and UAE - go figure!)

of course, Trump acolytes are now calling for a Nobel Peace prize for Trump... the most vocal/prominent call coming from Trump's National Security advisor, Robert O'Brien
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 19, 2020, 02:42:23 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/19/politics/trump-goodyear-cancel-culture/index.html

There's Democrat and Republican tires now FFS
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 19, 2020, 03:01:49 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/19/politics/trump-goodyear-cancel-culture/index.html

There's Democrat and Republican tires now FFS

So it seems and of course which type does Trumpride on? A further demonstration of his total hypocrisy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 22, 2020, 08:14:32 pm
So it seems and of course which type does Trumpride on? A further demonstration of his total hypocrisy.

I think Goodyear is the only American owned company that makes run flat tires which is what all his official vehicles would use.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 22, 2020, 10:23:29 pm
I think Goodyear is the only American owned company that makes run flat tires which is what all his official vehicles would use.

I don't think it's really about tires. Perhaps more about stupid **** making tires an issue. I'd shoot the hat off anyone wearing a MAGA into my workplace.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on August 24, 2020, 12:04:24 pm
I listened to Donny for awhile after he was officially nominated to run for POTUS and of course he was lying out his **** as per usual, mostly about mail in voting this time. He knows I guess that if more people get out and vote the more likely he will lose and this time around maybe by enough that even the BS EC won't be able to rescue his sorry ass. If he gets 4 more then I'm going to suggest we build our own wall. Let's hope the folks with a brain get out and send this jerk packin".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 25, 2020, 01:10:15 pm
So I hear Kimberly Guilfoyle's speech last night was pretty interesting...

(https://i.imgur.com/M0MMd5W.png)





...for some reason this reminds me of the scene in Sleeping Beauty where Malificent turns into a dragon.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 25, 2020, 01:21:08 pm
Wacky noo noo...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 25, 2020, 01:21:53 pm
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE AMERICAN DREAM...

https://twitter.com/DBF_NYC/status/1298099551820230660?s=09

People are challenging themselves to mimic her online...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 29, 2020, 02:24:57 pm
So, it seems like the Republican strategy right now is to convince white suburban Americans that if the Democrats win, there will be ongoing race riots in their cities and that they will only be protected from race riots if the Republicans win.

Are white suburban Americans dumb enough to fall for that?

I think we all know the answer to that question.

I am starting to get worried about how this is going to turn out.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 29, 2020, 07:45:37 pm
Four more years of Trump and we will need to build a wall.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on August 30, 2020, 12:17:44 am
Four more years of Trump and we will need to build a wall.

Who says it stops at 4?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 08, 2020, 11:32:43 am
Trump is like Jesus... sooooooo like Jesus! If you want the strengths of the bull - you just need to be willing to clean out the pen - Proverbs! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1303335108154449921/pu/vid/1280x720/fNjrFDk-zwdzP7n0.mp4?tag=10)  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 08, 2020, 11:44:40 am
Trump is like Jesus... sooooooo like Jesus! If you want the strengths of the bull - you just need to be willing to clean out the pen - Proverbs! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1303335108154449921/pu/vid/1280x720/fNjrFDk-zwdzP7n0.mp4?tag=10)  ;D

I’m sure these same lovely ladies thought Obama was the Muslim anti-Christ. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 09, 2020, 02:46:26 pm
Been away for awhile, hope all are well. Been glued listening this am to what is coming out of the Bob Woodward book especially as to the BS Trump spouted as to his handling of Covid, and not from reporters mouths but simply from hgistorical tape recordings. He's about to speak on the subject from the podium momentarily so I wait with baited breath. How much more garbage, crap bullshyte, nonsense, etc., etc., will his fans accept before they help the rest of us kick his sorry ass down the road? We shall see.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 09, 2020, 08:58:40 pm
Can't wait for the October surprise.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 09, 2020, 09:39:50 pm
Can't wait for the October surprise.
Could be a doozy :o
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 09, 2020, 11:47:51 pm
Can't wait for the October surprise.

I am the September surprise.

I'm back mothereffers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 10, 2020, 08:41:33 am
I am the September surprise.

I'm back mothereffers.

OH MY GOD i was wondering WHERE YOU were !!!!

Also... when did you leave ?  Why ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 10, 2020, 01:18:54 pm
OH MY GOD i was wondering WHERE YOU were !!!!

Also... when did you leave ?  Why ?

I'm glad you missed me sweetheart.

I apologize for my well-missed absence, I had an emergency **** reduction.  I'm now finally walking on 2 legs instead of 3.  Now it's only 15".  I'll post pics later.  Don't worry, I'm well-groomed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 10, 2020, 01:27:49 pm
I apologize for my well-missed absence, I had an emergency **** reduction.  I'm now finally walking on 2 legs instead of 3.  Now it's only 15".  I'll post pics later.  Don't worry, I'm well-groomed.

15"... I can't imagine what you are talking about.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 10, 2020, 01:42:30 pm
So Trump isn’t as stupid as he pretends, but he gladly plays to his really stupid supporters. 

He knew how deadly the virus was early on and purposely downplayed it.  Admitting so on recordings by Bob Woodward who was recording interviews for a book.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54094559

This brings up a some thoughts.....
1 - he’s not so stupid as to not know about the virus, but he is stupid enough to admit it to Woodward....  strange. 
2 - shouldn’t he be impeached for killing Americans by downplaying the virus?
3 - his supporters will ignore this. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 10, 2020, 01:51:02 pm
So Trump isn’t as stupid as he pretends, but he gladly plays to his really stupid supporters. 

He knew how deadly the virus was early on and purposely downplayed it.  Admitting so on recordings by Bob Woodward who was recording interviews for a book.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54094559

This brings up a some thoughts.....
1 - he’s not so stupid as to not know about the virus, but he is stupid enough to admit it to Woodward....  strange. 
2 - shouldn’t he be impeached for killing Americans by downplaying the virus?
3 - his supporters will ignore this.

One report I heard from an infectious disease expert who's name escapes me at the moment suggested that as many as 36,000 lives could have been saved if Trump had of reiterated what he had been told as to Covid 19 rather than hiding it as he did. And yes, I suspect you are correct presuming his supporters will sweep this under the rug too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 10, 2020, 01:57:25 pm
So Trump isn’t as stupid as he pretends, but he gladly plays to his really stupid supporters. 

He knew how deadly the virus was early on and purposely downplayed it.  Admitting so on recordings by Bob Woodward who was recording interviews for a book.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54094559

This brings up a some thoughts.....
1 - he’s not so stupid as to not know about the virus, but he is stupid enough to admit it to Woodward....  strange. 
2 - shouldn’t he be impeached for killing Americans by downplaying the virus?
3 - his supporters will ignore this.

He was very early in shutting down travel coming into the US.  He restricted flights from China in late January.  So obviously he was aware of the virus early.

But the not using masks etc set a very bad example for the rest of the country.  He probably didn't want to "look weak" on camera or some other nonsense.  I get the "not wanting people to panic" part, but playing it down as much as he did, especially the masks, was a bad idea.  He also lied to the public constantly.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 10, 2020, 02:07:58 pm
He was very early in shutting down travel coming into the US.  He restricted flights from China in late January.  So obviously he was aware of the virus early.

But the not using masks etc set a very bad example for the rest of the country.  He probably didn't want to "look weak" on camera or some other nonsense.  I get the "not wanting people to panic" part, but playing it down as much as he did, especially the masks, was a bad idea.  He also lied to the public constantly.

  Your bizarre justifications of what Trump does are hilarious.    He shut down flights from China while the USofA was getting the virus from Europe.  That’s useful!

https://nationalpost.com/news/covid-19-u-s-coronavirus-outbreak-came-from-europe-flights-not-china-say-researchers

It’s like you amputate your right leg when you have gangrene in your left arm because you don’t like what your right leg has been doing lately.  See?  The right leg couldn’t spread any disease after that!  So that’s a win in your book!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 10, 2020, 02:50:33 pm
It will be interesting to see how donny tries to wiggle out of this one. Lying to the public about potential danger because he didn't want to cause a panic. I spent a lot of my working life driving aircraft and it seems what he suggests is us warning passengers of impending turbulence was the wrong thing to do. I disagree. He's soo f'ed up!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 10, 2020, 03:18:17 pm
It will be interesting to see how donny tries to wiggle out of this one. Lying to the public about potential danger because he didn't want to cause a panic. I spent a lot of my working life driving aircraft and it seems what he suggests is us warning passengers of impending turbulence was the wrong thing to do. I disagree. He's soo f'ed up!

Its not that hard to figure out.  “I didn’t want people to panic”. 

Done. That will be their justification.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 10, 2020, 03:44:37 pm
Its not that hard to figure out.  “I didn’t want people to panic”. 

Done. That will be their justification.

Hard to justify 36,000 lives.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 10, 2020, 05:00:07 pm
Hard to justify 36,000 lives.

Yes, but if he didn’t do what he did, it would have been much worse.   They would have been up to a million dead now....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 10, 2020, 05:17:31 pm
Yes, but if he didn’t do what he did, it would have been much worse.   They would have been up to a million dead now....

Too bad he didn't have the f'ing brains to do it when he was made aware of the severity. It has been suggested a criminal case could be made against him and I would fully support such. He's clearly gotten away with too much for too long.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 10, 2020, 05:38:35 pm
  Your bizarre justifications of what Trump does are hilarious.    He shut down flights from China while the USofA was getting the virus from Europe.  That’s useful!

I also criticized other actions Trump made in the same post.  Your argument is that Trump is 100% wrong 100% of the time, which is obviously illogical.  People's hatred for the man get in the way of their common sense.  Policies are not to be judged based on how much you like or dislike the person enacting them, they should be judged on their own merit.

Trump shut down travel from China first because the outbreak was there first.  Trump publicly said he was considering travel bans from Italy and North Korea on Feb. 27.  Trump later shut down travel from all of Europe, starting with the Schengen countries because they have an open-travel agreement, a couple of days later the UK, Ireland etc.  He did all of this before Canada had ANY travel bans.

That doesn't mean I think his overall response has been good, because it's been pretty bad.  But credit where credit is due.  Trudeau performed worse than Trump in the beginning, but has acted far better since.  Credit where credit is due.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 10, 2020, 05:51:56 pm
So Trump isn’t as stupid as he pretends, but he gladly plays to his really stupid supporters. 

He knew how deadly the virus was early on and purposely downplayed it.  Admitting so on recordings by Bob Woodward who was recording interviews for a book.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54094559

This brings up a some thoughts.....
1 - he’s not so stupid as to not know about the virus, but he is stupid enough to admit it to Woodward....  strange. 
2 - shouldn’t he be impeached for killing Americans by downplaying the virus?
3 - his supporters will ignore this.

I like Bob Woodward, and this info is important.  My only complaint is that he sat on this info & kept it hidden so he could make money by releasing a book crapping on Trump two months before an election.  Maybe not the same level of patriot he was 45 years ago.

Trump is also an idiot for giving all these interviews to Woodward.  Woodward has made a career on bringing down Presidents and Trump sits down and tells him a bunch of secrets LOL nice job Trump!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 10, 2020, 06:00:44 pm
I like Bob Woodward, and this info is important.  My only complaint is that he sat on this info & kept it hidden so he could make money by releasing a book crapping on Trump two months before an election.  Maybe not the same level of patriot he was 45 years ago.

So you’re saying people didn’t know the virus was bad until Woodward released the tapes?  That they didn’t know Trump was either and idiot, or that he was lying about the virus?   

This has to be the most idiotic criticism and straight off of Trump’s twitter feed!  He’s a journalist and an author...   he was writing a book...   it takes time.  Who cares when he released it? 

It’s good timing, in my opinion. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 10, 2020, 07:12:02 pm
I also criticized other actions Trump made in the same post.  Your argument is that Trump is 100% wrong 100% of the time, which is obviously illogical.  People's hatred for the man get in the way of their common sense.  Policies are not to be judged based on how much you like or dislike the person enacting them, they should be judged on their own merit.

Trump shut down travel from China first because the outbreak was there first.  Trump publicly said he was considering travel bans from Italy and North Korea on Feb. 27.  Trump later shut down travel from all of Europe, starting with the Schengen countries because they have an open-travel agreement, a couple of days later the UK, Ireland etc.  He did all of this before Canada had ANY travel bans.

That doesn't mean I think his overall response has been good, because it's been pretty bad.  But credit where credit is due.  Trudeau performed worse than Trump in the beginning, but has acted far better since.  Credit where credit is due.

OMG! You seem to be forgiving trump for lying out his **** and causing many deaths in doing so. I don't think Trudeau did anything near to that. Are you that gullible to be sucked in by donny?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 11, 2020, 12:11:19 am
OMG! You seem to be forgiving trump for lying out his **** and causing many deaths in doing so. I don't think Trudeau did anything near to that. Are you that gullible to be sucked in by donny?

What are you talking about?  I'm not forgiving Trump for any of his lies and wrongdoing.  In fact, I clearly called Trump out on his lies:

But the not using masks etc set a very bad example for the rest of the country.  He probably didn't want to "look weak" on camera or some other nonsense.  I get the "not wanting people to panic" part, but playing it down as much as he did, especially the masks, was a bad idea.  He also lied to the public constantly.

Criticism where criticism is due, credit where credit is due.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on September 11, 2020, 01:28:53 am
I like Bob Woodward, and this info is important.  My only complaint is that he sat on this info & kept it hidden so he could make money by releasing a book crapping on Trump two months before an election.  Maybe not the same level of patriot he was 45 years ago.

Trump is also an idiot for giving all these interviews to Woodward.  Woodward has made a career on bringing down Presidents and Trump sits down and tells him a bunch of secrets LOL nice job Trump!

I hear ya in that it could've saved lives, but who are we kidding?  Trump's impeachment trial had only ended a few days before the the interview.  He was invincible.  He had successfully managed to escape scrutiny time after time. 

If there was ever a time his interview could have some repercussions, it would be now. 

Plus, we all knew the US is a sh!thole country, but seriously, did any of you foresee the farce that has ensued since the spring?  I admit, I didn't see them being THIS callous and indifferent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 12, 2020, 10:32:54 am
So you’re saying people didn’t know the virus was bad until Woodward released the tapes?  That they didn’t know Trump was either and idiot, or that he was lying about the virus?   

This has to be the most idiotic criticism and straight off of Trump’s twitter feed!  He’s a journalist and an author...   he was writing a book...   it takes time.  Who cares when he released it? 

It’s good timing, in my opinion.

It is good timing for an election and book sales but it was public safety information that was deliberately withheld. A lot of people do believe that idiot in the Whitehouse.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 12, 2020, 11:54:44 am
Interesting comments from Marcos Dos Santos the Whitecaps manager last night. The Caps have a three game US stint coming up and he said he was more concerned about the unstable political situation in the US than Covid as a threat to his team.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 12, 2020, 01:07:44 pm
It is good timing for an election and book sales but it was public safety information that was deliberately withheld. A lot of people do believe that idiot in the Whitehouse.
Blaming Woodward is just a FoxNews distraction. It's not like the truth makes any difference with the Trump cult anyway.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 12, 2020, 01:14:20 pm
I hear ya in that it could've saved lives, but who are we kidding?  Trump's impeachment trial had only ended a few days before the the interview.  He was invincible.  He had successfully managed to escape scrutiny time after time. 

If there was ever a time his interview could have some repercussions, it would be now. 

Plus, we all knew the US is a sh!thole country, but seriously, did any of you foresee the farce that has ensued since the spring?  I admit, I didn't see them being THIS callous and indifferent.

Bob Woodward literally became famous for being a whistleblower for POTUS lies, he was a hero.  Now he sits on important info that could have possibly saved lives in order to sell more books during an election campaign.  The old Bob Woodward is dead.  And people wonder why i've become so cynical.

But Trump is an a-hole so it's more important to smear him and defend his detractors (Woodward) and release a book during an election season in order to get him out of power than to possibly save lives.  This is BS.  You hear this crap, it should be in a news article pretty quickly.  You're a journalist Bob.  But ya I know, it doesn't quite pay like a book release 2 months before an election.

People will now paint me as a MAGA hat wearer or some other BS. I'm not, Trump clearly was in the WRONG and he LIED, and he KILLED PEOPLE.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 12, 2020, 01:28:09 pm
Bob Woodward literally became famous for being a whistleblower for POTUS lies, he was a hero.  Now he sits on important info that could have possibly saved lives in order to sell more books during an election campaign.  The old Bob Woodward is dead.  And people wonder why i've become so cynical.

But Trump is an a-hole so it's more important to smear him and defend his detractors (Woodward) and release a book during an election season in order to get him out of power than to possibly save lives.  This is BS.  You hear this crap, it should be in a news article pretty quickly.  You're a journalist Bob.  But ya I know, it doesn't quite pay like a book release 2 months before an election.

People will now paint me as a MAGA hat wearer or some other BS. I'm not, Trump clearly was in the WRONG and he LIED, and he KILLED PEOPLE.

You can try to point fingers at Woodward if you like to somehow ease the criticism of Trump, but clearly the importance of the issue is that Bob's tapes have outed Trump's lies about Covid and will hopefully save lives, even among the idiots who support Donny. Hopefully it will also get trump thrown out of power so the country can perhaps emerge from it's current laughing stock image.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 12, 2020, 01:56:27 pm
Everybody else in the world was saying Trump was lying about the severity of the virus. Everyone with half a brain could tell he was lying themselves. The only people who didn't know he was lying were the Trump cult, and they're still denying it even after hearing the tapes.

So Bob wouldn't have saved any lives. But the Senate had a chance to impeach him in February and didn't.  That might have helped.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 12, 2020, 02:00:38 pm
Blaming Woodward is just a FoxNews distraction. It's not like the truth makes any difference with the Trump cult anyway.


Trump said what he said and only he is responsible for that. Holding it back is on Woodward.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 12, 2020, 05:12:45 pm
Quote from: Bob Woodward
He tells me this, and I’m thinking, Wow, that’s interesting, but is it true? My mission was to determine, what did he know and when did he know it?

Only in May was I satisfied that Trump’s comments were based on reliable information and by then the virus had spread nationwide.

If I had done the story at that time about what he knew in February, that’s not telling us anything we didn’t know. At that point the issue was no longer one of public health but of politics. My priority became getting the story out before the election in November.

That was the demarcation line for me. Had I decided that my book was coming out on Christmas, the end of this year, that would have been unthinkable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 12, 2020, 11:33:32 pm


A true patriot!

Yes, the book was written to tell the truth about Trump.  He certainly didn't line up 18 interviews with the guy in order to have enough material for a controversial book to sell 2 months before the election and make some sweet cash.  This is just a patriot journalist doing his duty!

Let's take Woodward on his word, because as we know with Trump, people never lie for personal gain.  Bob if you only knew in May, show us the evidence of that.

It's pretty fun trying to Woodword Woodword.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 13, 2020, 07:55:23 am

Trump said what he said and only he is responsible for that. Holding it back is on Woodward.
No, the president's lies are on the president.  At this point, that's all that matters. Next year, when Trump is in jail, I will consider whether Bob Woodward was too slow or not. Right now that's just a distraction.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 13, 2020, 07:21:24 pm
No, the president's lies are on the president.  At this point, that's all that matters. Next year, when Trump is in jail, I will consider whether Bob Woodward was too slow or not. Right now that's just a distraction.


Letting him get away with a lie for months is on Woodward.
Don't you think part of journalism is keeping politicians honest?
Do you think reporters should make a practice of sitting on information until it suits their own purposes?
By waiting, Woodward was just playing his own political game.

I'm glad Woodard released the recordings but I don't think he is a hero for the way he went about it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 13, 2020, 09:00:48 pm

Letting him get away with a lie for months is on Woodward.
Don't you think part of journalism is keeping politicians honest?
Do you think reporters should make a practice of sitting on information until it suits their own purposes?
By waiting, Woodward was just playing his own political game.

I'm glad Woodard released the recordings but I don't think he is a hero for the way he went about it.

Who, other than Trumpists, thought it was like the flu? 

Would those Trumpists suddenly change their minds?  No...  they now just say “he didn’t want people to panic”. 

Nothing in Woodward’s recordings brought any new information to light.  All it did was confirm what was already known.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 14, 2020, 12:02:12 am

Letting him get away with a lie for months is on Woodward.
Don't you think part of journalism is keeping politicians honest?
Do you think reporters should make a practice of sitting on information until it suits their own purposes?
By waiting, Woodward was just playing his own political game.

I'm glad Woodard released the recordings but I don't think he is a hero for the way he went about it.
What a feeble attempt to pardon trump. Trump\s bs is not Woodwards fault regardless of how he chose to expose it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on September 14, 2020, 02:09:33 pm
Everybody else in the world was saying Trump was lying about the severity of the virus. Everyone with half a brain could tell he was lying themselves. The only people who didn't know he was lying were the Trump cult, and they're still denying it even after hearing the tapes.

I'm pretty sure they know on some level but there's also a deeper level on which they relish it.  There's an awful lot of spite in the world right now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 14, 2020, 02:57:05 pm
Also this was largely missed, I think:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/09/13/trump-says-he-will-negotiate-third-term-because-hes-entitled-to-it/#4510a601287c

During a rally in Minden, Nevada, Trump predicted he would win reelection and carry Nevada, a state he lost narrowly in 2016.

“After that,” Trump said, “we’ll negotiate,” asserting that he’s “probably entitled to another four after that” based on “the way we were treated.”
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on September 14, 2020, 03:25:42 pm
Also this was largely missed, I think:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/09/13/trump-says-he-will-negotiate-third-term-because-hes-entitled-to-it/#4510a601287c

From the article;

Quote
7.5%. That’s how much Biden leads Trump nationally in the RealClearPolitics average, meaning a second term for Trump may be even more unlikely than a third.

A 2nd term could probably be secured by fiat without much trouble simply according to the doubts sown over the integrity of an electoral system which is already a dysfunctional mess.  I doubt Trump's base will object given some of the other grounds bringing a visceral fear to the thought of losing - America has fallen so far to radical leftists in a struggle between capitalism and communism that's as epic as the final battle between good and evil.

It bears mentioning again that Trump is an effect not a cause.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 14, 2020, 06:11:39 pm
What a feeble attempt to pardon trump. Trump\s bs is not Woodwards fault regardless of how he chose to expose it.

In what universe could that be seen as an attempt to pardon Trump?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 14, 2020, 07:31:13 pm
In what universe could that be seen as an attempt to pardon Trump?

In what universe would anyone attempt to pardon Trump?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 14, 2020, 08:01:06 pm
In what universe would anyone attempt to pardon Trump?

I don't know. Maybe you should ask yourself why Woodward would keep this a secret for over seven months.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 14, 2020, 08:20:15 pm
I don't know. Maybe you should ask yourself why Woodward would keep this a secret for over seven months.

Maybe he was busy writing his book. In any case, these feeble attempts to protect trump are blatantly obvious.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 14, 2020, 08:34:38 pm
Maybe he was busy writing his book. In any case, these feeble attempts to protect trump are blatantly obvious.


 His holding it back protected Trump for seven months FFS.

It also kept Americans from knowing that Trump knew it was far more serious and was covering it up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 14, 2020, 08:37:56 pm

 His holding it back protected Trump for seven months FFS.

It also kept Americans from knowing that Trump knew it was far more serious and was covering it up.

Perhaps bringing it closer to election time was strategic. If it works to keep trump away from a second term then Mission Accomplished"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 14, 2020, 09:31:27 pm
Perhaps bringing it closer to election time was strategic. If it works to keep trump away from a second term then Mission Accomplished"

And how many lives do you think that might have cost? Do you think journalists should be making those kind of political decisions. You are justifying this only because it might affect an election result. What if some other journalist does it another day and it helps get a result you don't like? Will you be fine with that as well?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 14, 2020, 10:26:13 pm
And how many lives do you think that might have cost? Do you think journalists should be making those kind of political decisions. You are justifying this only because it might affect an election result. What if some other journalist does it another day and it helps get a result you don't like? Will you be fine with that as well?

Perhaps Woodward could/should have blown the whistle earlier. but clearly the culprit/criminal in this case is Trump, and I don't buy attempts to deflect that, although trump will be happy to hear from ya.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 14, 2020, 10:36:45 pm
Perhaps Woodward could/should have blown the whistle earlier. but clearly the culprit/criminal in this case is Trump, and I don't buy attempts to deflect that, although trump will be happy to hear from ya.

I'm not deflecting anything and I hope it does hurt Trump in the election.  I just don't think that's how journalists should be acting. Are they reporters or manipulators?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on September 14, 2020, 11:32:42 pm
And how many lives do you think that might have cost?

The fact that Trumpets are still calling it a hoax even now after hearing the tapes should answer that question.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 14, 2020, 11:59:19 pm
The fact that Trumpets are still calling it a hoax even now after hearing the tapes should answer that question.

Some always will but there are many degrees of Trump followers just as there are for anything else.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 15, 2020, 09:52:46 pm

Letting him get away with a lie for months is on Woodward.
Don't you think part of journalism is keeping politicians honest?
Do you think reporters should make a practice of sitting on information until it suits their own purposes?
By waiting, Woodward was just playing his own political game.

I'm glad Woodard released the recordings but I don't think he is a hero for the way he went about it.

Woodward is not without controversy over his career, but understand that he is now mostly a book writer and not a journalist. While he is technically still an editor with the Washington Post, I understand that is mostly honorific and he is not active on any regular basis.

The interviews with Trump were done under the understanding it was for a book, but Woodward admits there was no contract that forbade him from releasing information earlier. The usual problem with a Trump interview is assessing what is truth and not, and that is no different here. While he took the interviews early in the year he had no idea the source of Trump's statement, it was not until late spring that Woodward was able to verify that they came from high-level intelligence briefings. A big part of writing a book of this nature is putting together many disparate piece of information and corroborating them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 16, 2020, 12:43:10 am
just a portion of tonight's entire interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVAZDuEbQ5s
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on September 18, 2020, 08:38:13 pm
Evergreen tweet, but especially tonight - what a **** up country.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 22, 2020, 10:50:23 am
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/22/politics/scotus-nomination-congress-latest-mitt-romney/index.html

So it looks like the court will have enough Republicans to ban abortion in the USA, strike down ACA ... anything they want.

Are the Democrats going to play the same dirty game or act like a bunch of University professors ?  The strongest administration in recent memory for the Dems was the dirty... dirty... LBJ term. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 22, 2020, 12:21:42 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/22/politics/scotus-nomination-congress-latest-mitt-romney/index.html

So it looks like the court will have enough Republicans to ban abortion in the USA, strike down ACA ... anything they want.

Are the Democrats going to play the same dirty game or act like a bunch of University professors ?  The strongest administration in recent memory for the Dems was the dirty... dirty... LBJ term.

Obama nominated people for the Supreme Court when one died in his election year, the Senate was GOP so struck it down.  The Democrats have no "holier than thou" play here.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 22, 2020, 12:50:11 pm
Obama nominated people for the Supreme Court when one died in his election year, the Senate was GOP so struck it down.  The Democrats have no "holier than thou" play here.

Yeah, actually.  The GOP (famously Lindsay Graham) said that the president shouldn't get their nomination near the end of term.  9 months without a justice... and now they are putting one in in 6 weeks....

Democrats will stack the court and their old old leader will recover a buried memory of 1965 when the Dems were dirty...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on September 22, 2020, 01:15:24 pm
Yeah, actually.  The GOP (famously Lindsay Graham) said that the president shouldn't get their nomination near the end of term.  9 months without a justice... and now they are putting one in in 6 weeks....

Democrats will stack the court and their old old leader will recover a buried memory of 1965 when the Dems were dirty...

I don't think it's a good idea for Dems to wait and take revenge after the elections.  Trump has every intention of contesting the election and if it ends up in the hands of SCOTUS, who knows what Republicans will do with democracy with four more years.  Already gerrymandering and voter suppression has given them an advantage.  They can rig elections and stay in power for decades to come.

Maybe I'm overly pessimistic, but given the Republican handbook, I think it's more realism than pessimism.  Dems need to do something now.  Impeachment seems to be the only solution. 


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 22, 2020, 03:27:23 pm
Yeah, actually.  The GOP (famously Lindsay Graham) said that the president shouldn't get their nomination near the end of term.  9 months without a justice... and now they are putting one in in 6 weeks....

Yes the GOP lied.  What else is new.  They just didn't want a liberal judge.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 22, 2020, 03:32:08 pm
Yes the GOP lied.  What else is new.  They just didn't want a liberal judge.

So is all lying ok then ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 22, 2020, 03:46:38 pm
So is all lying ok then ?

One thing that is "OK" about trump's lying is that is so blatantly obvious only MAGA hat T-shirt wearers are ignorant enough to miss/dismiss it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 22, 2020, 03:47:32 pm
One thing that is "OK" about trump's lying is that is so blatantly obvious only MAGA hat T-shirt wearers are ignorant enough to miss/dismiss it.

I agree.  So why do they go high when they go low ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 22, 2020, 03:58:00 pm
I agree.  So why do they go high when they go low ?

Same question I ask myself on a regular basis as trump continues to speak out totally against what he said yesterday or day before. I guess a short attention span helps one be a trump supporter, along with a lack of understanding of their constitution. Do ya think donny doesn't understand or does he just not like the "equal rights" and such things listed within?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 22, 2020, 04:31:16 pm
So is all lying ok then ?

No.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 22, 2020, 04:37:10 pm
I don't think it's a good idea for Dems to wait and take revenge after the elections.  Trump has every intention of contesting the election and if it ends up in the hands of SCOTUS, who knows what Republicans will do with democracy with four more years.  Already gerrymandering and voter suppression has given them an advantage.  They can rig elections and stay in power for decades to come.

Maybe I'm overly pessimistic, but given the Republican handbook, I think it's more realism than pessimism.  Dems need to do something now.  Impeachment seems to be the only solution.

Impeach him for what though?

They also don't have control of the Senate.  They'd have to get control in Nov.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 22, 2020, 04:47:58 pm
Impeach him for what though?

They also don't have control of the Senate.  They'd have to get control in Nov.

You barely have enough fingers to count up the reasons/crimes for which donny trumpy could be impeached.
Using thr office for his own personal benifit is one. Lying is another. I can go on if you need more education.

https://soapboxie.com/us-politics/11-Crimes-For-Which-Donald-Trump-Should-be-Impeached
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on September 22, 2020, 05:55:57 pm
Impeach him for what though?

They also don't have control of the Senate.  They'd have to get control in Nov.

Impeach as a stall tactic, not to actually have him removed.  There's really no time to f*ck around anymore, Trump will take this to SCOTUS, if it's 6-3, there won't be another shot. Basically they need to play by the same rules Republicans play -- anything goes. 

And he has committed plenty of impeachable offenses.  Take your pick, the basket is full.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 22, 2020, 06:12:26 pm
Trump has graded himself on his handling of the Covid issue and gave himself a triple A. I wonder what the over two hundred thousand dead Americans would give him if they could. If you're wearing a MAGA hat, I hope you get Covid.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 24, 2020, 01:46:04 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/24/politics/donald-trump-supreme-court-boos/index.html


MMMMM hmmmm ....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 24, 2020, 05:14:52 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/24/politics/donald-trump-supreme-court-boos/index.html


MMMMM hmmmm ....

I am SO f'ing happy I don't live in the US, especially these days. And especially when Herr trump says he may decline to accept the will of the people come voting day if he doesn't win. I've never wanted to be a cop but I would love to be one of the guys sent to escort donny from the White House.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 24, 2020, 05:31:00 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/24/politics/donald-trump-supreme-court-boos/index.html


MMMMM hmmmm ....

Maybe RBG would have approved. Even Republicans don't want him at their funerals. McCain, Barbara Bush etc.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 25, 2020, 05:07:01 am
The president is a psychopath.

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-the-president-is-a-psychopath-20200924-i4yegtrvjvelzgrqniinn6pvue-story.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 25, 2020, 02:24:48 pm
The president is a psychopath.

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-the-president-is-a-psychopath-20200924-i4yegtrvjvelzgrqniinn6pvue-story.html

Amateur psychiatry from a distance doesn’t help. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 25, 2020, 03:21:33 pm
Amateur psychiatry from a distance doesn’t help.
But they're professionals.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 25, 2020, 03:24:51 pm
I noticed that FOX put out a poll that has Biden significantly ahead in Ohio...

If Ohio, North Carolina and Florida are in play... so are Georgia, Iowa and... Texas...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 25, 2020, 08:58:42 pm
Just read a good one.

What borders on insanity?

Canada and Mexico.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 26, 2020, 04:49:45 pm
Trump you magnificent bastard![attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 27, 2020, 01:43:15 am
Trump you magnificent bastard!

(https://i.imgur.com/NPzotZh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/azaEigF.jpg) (https://www.scc-csc.ca/about-apropos/images/official-court-photo-officielle-cour.jpg)

                                                                                               hey member Shady... name one - just one... you magnificent bastard!  ;D

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 27, 2020, 09:07:17 am
This is an easy solution - Democrats should just stack the court.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 27, 2020, 11:38:35 am
This is an easy solution - Democrats should just stack the court.

actually not so easy... but even if any party were to have "the numbers", the action could become the norm/practice - to the point of delegitimizing the court itself; moving it from an appearance of by-issue partisanship to outright overt partisanship.

the waldo would favour: term limits and/or a rotating bench (also applicable to Canada; albeit Canadian SCOC judges (may) only sit until reaching age 75... as compared to the "for life" term for U.S. justices). Of course, this isn't a concern in Canada since we're a civilized country of laws!  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2020, 04:55:29 pm
What is somewhat frighteningly interesting is that the people who stand behind donny trump demonstrate psychological shortcomings that will be unable to be treated as the ACA is gutted. I bet donny planned that too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 27, 2020, 05:01:17 pm
What is somewhat frighteningly interesting is that the people who stand behind donny trump demonstrate psychological shortcomings that will be unable to be treated as the ACA is gutted. I bet donny planned that too.
Projection is a terrible thing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 27, 2020, 05:02:55 pm
actually not so easy... but even if any party were to have "the numbers", the action could become the norm/practice - to the point of delegitimizing the court itself; moving it from an appearance of by-issue partisanship to outright overt partisanship.

the waldo would favour: term limits and/or a rotating bench (also applicable to Canada; albeit Canadian SCOC judges (may) only sit until reaching age 75... as compared to the "for life" term for U.S. justices). Of course, this isn't a concern in Canada since we're a civilized country of laws!  ;D
Term limits should be extended to members of Congress as well.  That’s even more important.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 27, 2020, 10:02:09 pm
Either Trump commits tax fraud, or he makes no money every year....   either way, unfit to run a lemonade stand.

Quote
U.S. President Donald Trump paid no federal income taxes in 10 of the past 15 years...
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5741186
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 27, 2020, 10:23:47 pm
Either Trump commits tax fraud, or he makes no money every year....   either way, unfit to run a lemonade stand.
 https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5741186
Complete nonsense.  He’s been audited every year for the past dozen years.  No tax fraud at all.  But he did get a healthy refund thanks to laws passed by Obama in 2009!

You guys are hilarious and demonstrate every time I’m on here that you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 27, 2020, 10:34:09 pm
Complete nonsense.  He’s been audited every year for the past dozen years.  No tax fraud at all.  But he did get a healthy refund thanks to laws passed by Obama in 2009!

You guys are hilarious and demonstrate every time I’m on here that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Bet he got an even bigger one with the laws he passed in 2017.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2020, 10:37:30 pm
Complete nonsense.  He’s been audited every year for the past dozen years.  No tax fraud at all.  But he did get a healthy refund thanks to laws passed by Obama in 2009!

You guys are hilarious and demonstrate every time I’m on here that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

He writes off 70k worth of haircuts over the years, but the fucker is bald! What other **** will his supporters be sucked into?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 27, 2020, 10:40:59 pm
Complete nonsense.  He’s been audited every year for the past dozen years.  No tax fraud at all.  But he did get a healthy refund thanks to laws passed by Obama in 2009!

You guys are hilarious and demonstrate every time I’m on here that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

So you don’t think the super rich should pay any taxes?  How fuckin’ stupid is that?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 27, 2020, 10:46:56 pm
Complete nonsense.  He’s been audited every year for the past dozen years.  No tax fraud at all.  But he did get a healthy refund thanks to laws passed by Obama in 2009!

You guys are hilarious and demonstrate every time I’m on here that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

He’s a great businessman....  maybe the greatest.

Quote
The New York Times reveals that President Donald Trump has not paid any federal income taxes in 10 of the past 15 years. It goes on to note that Trump paid only $750—yes that’s just $750—in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017; these are the years he ran for president and the first year of his presidency.

Trump declared $1.4 billion in losses from his core businesses for the years of 2008 and 2009. The reason he was able to avoid paying taxes is that he claims millions in business losses year after year.

Trump has accrued loans totaling $421 million, and most of these debts are due and payable within the next four years. Trump is personally responsible for most of these loans.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/terinaallen/2020/09/27/trump-pays-zero-taxes-most-years-here-are-8-times-he-attacks-others-on-taxes/amp/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2020, 11:01:15 pm
He’s a great businessman....  maybe the greatest.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/terinaallen/2020/09/27/trump-pays-zero-taxes-most-years-here-are-8-times-he-attacks-others-on-taxes/amp/

Good on you for pointing out some of the facts recently exposed regarding trump's shady background. Unfortunately they will quite likely be ignored by shady and the likes of which who support loony toons donny. Hopefully American voters will turn out and then when donny is thrown out of the White House he can then be ushered into court to answer a multitude of charges before the time limit runs out if he were to get a second term.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2020, 11:15:15 pm
Complete nonsense.  He’s been audited every year for the past dozen years.  No tax fraud at all.  But he did get a healthy refund thanks to laws passed by Obama in 2009!

You guys are hilarious and demonstrate every time I’m on here that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Let's see his tax returns. I bet even you will understand the bullshit provided by your buddy. I bet we'd see a huge addition to his already bulky list of lies.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/07/13/president-trump-has-made-more-than-20000-false-or-misleading-claims/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 28, 2020, 07:39:35 am
I like how the cultists are quick to declare no fraud. That suggests there must be mountains if evidence of fraud.
And given the discrepancy between what he told the Chinese and Russian oligarchs that own him about the value of his companies and what he told the IRS, there's plenty of evidence. Not to mention the funneling of money to Ivanka to generate a fake loss. You would have to be really, really stupid to not see what's going on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 28, 2020, 12:44:19 pm
Let's see his tax returns. I bet even you will understand the bullshit provided by your buddy. I bet we'd see a huge addition to his already bulky list of lies.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/07/13/president-trump-has-made-more-than-20000-false-or-misleading-claims/
The IRS gets his tax returns every year and audits him.  They're the tax law experts. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 28, 2020, 12:49:11 pm
I like how the cultists are quick to declare no fraud. That suggests there must be mountains if evidence of fraud.
And given the discrepancy between what he told the Chinese and Russian oligarchs that own him about the value of his companies and what he told the IRS, there's plenty of evidence. Not to mention the funneling of money to Ivanka to generate a fake loss. You would have to be really, really stupid to not see what's going on.
Hey why do you think Hunter Biden got a $3.5 million dollar wire transfer from the wife of a buddy of Putin?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 28, 2020, 01:12:34 pm
Hey why do you think Hunter Biden got a $3.5 million dollar wire transfer from the wife of a buddy of Putin?

Sounds like he was associating with a bad crowd. 

Still, he wasn't the VP and his influence seems to be marginal at best.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 28, 2020, 02:15:50 pm
The IRS gets his tax returns every year and audits him.  They're the tax law experts.

Pretty hard to audit tax returns that haven't been filed, such as in 10 out of the last 15 years in donny's case.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 28, 2020, 03:52:11 pm
Sounds like he was associating with a bad crowd. 

Still, he wasn't the VP and his influence seems to be marginal at best.
No, but his dad was the VP, at the time he gained access through his daddy's influence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 28, 2020, 03:52:44 pm
Pretty hard to audit tax returns that haven't been filed, such as in 10 out of the last 15 years in donny's case.
Simply not true.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 28, 2020, 04:29:13 pm
No, but his dad was the VP, at the time he gained access through his daddy's influence.

I have never heard of a single allegation, ie. an example of that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 28, 2020, 05:05:20 pm
Hey why do you think Hunter Biden got a $3.5 million dollar wire transfer from the wife of a buddy of Putin?

The wife of the Moscow mayor sent a transfer to an investment company that two Republican Senators said was linked to Hunter Biden. The report cited unspecified confidential documents and gave no evidence Biden personally accepted those funds.  At least be accurate with your BS.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 28, 2020, 05:34:01 pm
Breaking news!  Trump pays his legally required taxes as per a tax code he didn’t create.  But people like Biden did.  Your outrage is misplaced.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 28, 2020, 07:01:08 pm
Breaking news!  Trump pays his legally required taxes as per a tax code he didn’t create.  But people like Biden did.  Your outrage is misplaced.
He didn't pay any taxes. You have no idea what he is legally required to pay and if he paid it. You're clinging to uninformed faith because you drank the orange kool-aid and you desperately want to still be right, even though all evidence suggests you're stupidly wrong. The article also cited an ongoing investigation that has been mysteriously squashed the last four years. His abuse of his power doesn't exonerate him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 28, 2020, 07:08:39 pm
I've never seen such a sharp drop in his approval rating in one day on precious Rasmussen. Trumpers must be filling their pants.
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/trump_approval_index_history
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 28, 2020, 09:11:51 pm
In 2018 Trump disclosed in White House records that he made $435 million.  To the IRS, Trump says he lost $40 million. 

Hmmm....  that’s some bad math right there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 28, 2020, 11:41:43 pm
In 2018 Trump disclosed in White House records that he made $435 million.  To the IRS, Trump says he lost $40 million. 

Hmmm....  that’s some bad math right there.

He really needs to win that second term otherwise he likely goes to jail. Apparently shady and the likes don't understand/care about that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on September 29, 2020, 02:23:28 am
In 2018 Trump disclosed in White House records that he made $435 million.  To the IRS, Trump says he lost $40 million. 

Hmmm....  that’s some bad math right there.

I hadn't heard that one but I looked it up.  Apparently the $435 million was income, slightly down from $450 million the previous year.  It doesn't necessarily mean taxable income though so he could've shown a $40 mil loss on that much revenue...

if he was a really crappy businessperson or a corrupt tax-evader. 

Which one do you think, Shady?

ETA - link:  https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/16/politics/donald-trump-financial-disclosure/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 29, 2020, 11:38:41 am
Forbes Senior Editor, Dan Alexander (https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2020/09/28/yes-donald-trump-is-still-a-billionaire-that-makes-his-750-tax-payment-even-more-scandalous/#62e6182d2885): Trump is $1.13 billion in debt... has a net worth at $2.5 billion - his businesses are worth an estimated $3.66 billion before debt.

hey member Shady, is that $1.13 billion debt... is that... leverage?  ;D

(https://www.smdp.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Putins-puppet-part-2-e1537127188980.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 29, 2020, 12:22:04 pm
Forbes Senior Editor, Dan Alexander (https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2020/09/28/yes-donald-trump-is-still-a-billionaire-that-makes-his-750-tax-payment-even-more-scandalous/#62e6182d2885): Trump is $1.13 billion in debt... has a net worth at $2.5 billion - his businesses are worth an estimated $3.66 billion before debt.

hey member Shady, is that $1.13 billion debt... is that... leverage?  ;D

(https://www.smdp.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Putins-puppet-part-2-e1537127188980.png)
Lol, yes Putin owns all the major banks! Lol.
But if you think that’s leverage, wait till you find out how much your buddy PM now has us owing to China!  Yikes!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 29, 2020, 12:30:58 pm
Lol, yes Putin owns all the major banks! Lol.
But if you think that’s leverage, wait till you find out how much your buddy PM now has us owing to China!  Yikes!

How much of Canada’s debt is owned by China? 

What about the USA? 

I await some facts.  Which I know won’t be forthcoming.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 29, 2020, 12:45:41 pm
How much of Canada’s debt is owned by China? 

What about the USA? 

I await some facts.  Which I know won’t be forthcoming.
How much debt is owned by Putin?  I await some facts.  Which I know won't be forthcoming. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 29, 2020, 12:52:32 pm
How much debt is owned by Putin?  I await some facts.  Which I know won't be forthcoming.

Sorry Shady.  Your deflections won’t work.   You made a claim.  Back it up.

But I know you won’t.  Idiotic troll. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 29, 2020, 12:59:13 pm
Sorry Shady.  Your deflections won’t work.   You made a claim.  Back it up.

But I know you won’t.  Idiotic troll.
I’m just using Waldo tactics. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 29, 2020, 01:33:06 pm
Trump only hires the best - circa xyz199578 - Brad Parscale

Mr. Parscale, the vaunted "digital guru" behind the 2016 Trump win... re-upped as the official campaign manager for Trump2020. But Mr. Parscale made some big coin off his association with Trump; in particular, gaining much media notoriety over his recent yacht/vehicle/etc. purchases - and Trump doesn't like to share attention! (https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/29/politics/donald-trump-brad-parscale-campaign-coronavirus/index.html)  ;D So, of course, Parscale was demoted - ya, ya that's the word - demoted to "campaign adviser"! Oh how the mythical have fallen - I trust Trump's physical take-down will be similar; one that also includes an actual Trump frogmarch!

police video of the Parscale take-down:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjAqS35D8ZU   (https://i.redd.it/qq4k0r66ppe51.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 29, 2020, 03:53:34 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkU1ob_lHCw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlZg-dObruo
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 29, 2020, 07:34:43 pm
Term limits should be extended to members of Congress as well.  That’s even more important.

While there is certainly validity to the idea of term limits to Congress, I don't think it is anywhere near as important. Remember that members of the House need to be re-elected every 2 years, and Senate every 6 years (staggered). The problem is that incumbent members stand about 90% chance of being reelected, usually due to their inherent advantage in raising campaign funds. I would prefer to see limits on campaign spending.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 29, 2020, 08:55:28 pm
This debate is looney tunes. Trump seems to be agitated and desperate and struggling to remain coherent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 29, 2020, 09:49:56 pm
I guess if you’re running to try and mess up the election so bad that you try and stay in office even if you lose the election, then that was a great debate!  Haha
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 29, 2020, 10:28:40 pm
Apparently white supremacists and extreme right wing white nationalists are very happy with tonight’s debate.  Nice!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 29, 2020, 10:50:08 pm
well... as far as shyte-shows go!

Apparently white supremacists and extreme right wing white nationalists are very happy with tonight’s debate.  Nice!

Quote
debate moderator, FoxNews' Chris Wallace to Trump: "Are you willing, tonight, to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down..."

Trump: "Proud Boys, stand back and stand by! But I'll tell you what, somebody's got to do something about antifa and the left."

Proud Boys on Twitter... quick to adopt Trump words into logo:

(https://i.imgur.com/ceokyVu.png)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 29, 2020, 10:58:48 pm
What a **** show. I watched a bit then thought, I'm not an American, I don't have to watch this crap and switched to the football game.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on September 30, 2020, 12:25:47 am
I was hustling around the kitchen putting finishing touches on a turkey dinner with the trimmings when the debate started. By the time I'd said 'come and get it' my wife and our friends had made the decision to watch a football game instead.

Never saw heard or missed a thing :)

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 30, 2020, 03:09:54 am
What a **** show. I watched a bit then thought, I'm not an American, I don't have to watch this crap and switched to the football game.

The American football game?

You can thank Donald for that, apparently.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 30, 2020, 06:11:29 am
Take it from me - your peace of mind will flourish if you stay away from these entirely.  I am relying on text descriptions only, not watching clips.

Seriously people: guard your mental health.

Sample headline from the Drudge Report: NIGHT EXPOSES NATION IN DECLINE
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 30, 2020, 07:45:07 am
I imagine shady is a proud boy this morning after that performance.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 30, 2020, 11:04:14 am
I imagine shady is a proud boy this morning after that performance.

I see what you did there!  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 30, 2020, 11:05:54 am
debate prep - the architects! (https://nypost.com/2020/09/27/trump-says-giuliani-chris-christie-helping-him-with-debate-prep/) What could possibly go wrong?

(https://i.imgur.com/JpChMxy.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 30, 2020, 11:22:15 am
climate change got its typical cursory mentions... with Trump showcasing, once again, that his limited view/understanding has him speaking of climate change as simply clean air/clean water! And as done several times in the past, Trump once again railed on about forest management - in response to the most direct question the moderator posed: "FoxNews' Chris Wallace asked Trump if he believes that greenhouse gas emissions contribute to the warming of the planet"

Quote from: Donald J Trump, U.S. President
I think a lot of things do.

In Europe, they live, they have forest cities. They’re called forest cities. They maintain their forest, they manage their forest.

I was with the head of a major country, it’s a forest city. He said, ‘Sir, we have trees that are far more — they ignite much easier than California.’ There shouldn’t be that problem. I spoke with the governor about it — I’m getting along very well with the governor — but I said at some point, you can’t every year have hundreds of thousands of land just burned to the ground. That’s burning down because of a lack of management.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on September 30, 2020, 05:59:23 pm
Trump is taking a well deserved thumping over his performance last night. It will be interesting to what actions the moderators take to prevent a repeat. Switching mikes on and off sounds like one possible solution.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 01, 2020, 10:15:50 pm
So Hope Hicks proves positive for Covid and now Donny and the wife are quarantining. I thought he said they had "turned the corner". I wish no ill will but if anybody deserved a hit of covid it's donny.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on October 02, 2020, 01:21:51 am
Positive... or so he says.  I don't know if I believe anything that psychopath says.

:D :D :D :D :D

Omni, you're too nice, I could wish ill on that mofo.  He's setting the stage for a coup saying Democrats are cheating in the election.

If he Herman Cains, it would solve a lot of problems.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 02, 2020, 02:18:07 am
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/hope-hicks-trump-positive-covid-19-1.5747343

Quote
President Donald Trump said Friday that he and first lady Melania Trump have tested positive for the coronavirus, just a month before the presidential election and after having spent much of the last year largely downplaying the threat of the virus.

I actually do hope he croaks, if only to shut his covidiot supporters up.  And it will probably be the best lesson possible for the country and save a lot of lives.  Dying of COVID may be the best thing he could ever do!

Sometimes your life is just meant to be an example to others of how NOT to behave...   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 02, 2020, 06:41:41 am
He was shouting from across the stage at Biden for nearly 2 hours earlier this week. I would be surprised if Joe doesn't have it now too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 02, 2020, 06:50:25 am
They were distanced, but yes they were in the same space.

This isn't even karma, this is just direct and immediate response from stupidity.

Drink bleach, you idiot.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 02, 2020, 09:11:31 am
This isn't even karma, this is just direct and immediate response from stupidity.

speaking of: Trump Went Ahead With Golf Club Fundraiser After Hicks Tested Positive (https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-went-ahead-with-golf-club-fundraiser-after-hicks-tested-positive)

Quote
The event included personal photo ops, an intimate round-table meeting between Trump and dozens of supporters, and a droplet-spraying presidential speech to fundraisers.

Just hours before President Trump announced that he had tested positive for COVID-19, he was mingling with fundraisers at an event held at his New Jersey golf club—and even posed for personal photo-ops with supporters. The event went ahead after the White House learned that one of the president’s closest aides, Hope Hicks, had tested positive for the disease, according to multiple reports.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Dia on October 02, 2020, 09:20:31 am
Conspiracy theories already in play - he was deliberately infected by Biden or someone on Biden's staff. 

A "best outcome" noted on Reddit: he gets very  very ill, but doesn't die.  Supporters see a president ravaged by Covid, decide to take it seriously.

"Most likely" outcome - he gets mildly ill, recovers well and has extra ammunition to downplay the virus.

"Worst outcome" - he dies, is martyred, violence ensues as conspiracy theories abound.

Can't say I disagree with any of these.  Much as I dislike him, I can't wish him dead.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 02, 2020, 09:58:54 am
No system can move forward with leaders of this low calibre.  Whatever happens is part of the natural process.  :'(

Still terrible though....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on October 02, 2020, 11:58:30 am
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/hope-hicks-trump-positive-covid-19-1.5747343

Sometimes your life is just meant to be an example to others of how NOT to behave...
I've been saying go Trump go ever since his election because his presidency has been such a teachable one. And it bears mentioning again that Trump is merely an effect - a symptom of causes that have been piling up for decades.

Trump's presidency, like COVID, has underscored just how ill prepared America is for so many of the challenges it faces to the point where it has every appearance of becoming a failed state.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 02, 2020, 12:11:14 pm
And it bears mentioning again that Trump is merely an effect - a symptom of causes that have been piling up for decades.



That's a very important point! Have you followed Chris Hedges at all. That comment if smack on his message, but there's a lot more that I suspect you would agree with.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 02, 2020, 02:51:11 pm
MAGA masks next?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 02, 2020, 05:49:49 pm
Trump comorbidities: age 74; overweight; mild heart disease; high cholesterol level; compulsive liar; authoritarian despot

Trump symptoms: low-grade fever, cough, nasal congestion, fatigue

WH announced that he will shortly be hospitalized at Walter Reed medical center

although the U.S. FDA has yet to approve any Covid-19 treatments, Trump today received an experimental antibody cocktail being developed by the drug maker Regeneron (currently in clinical trials... usurping the lack of formal FDA approval of the experimental treatment, Trump received it on so-called compassionate grounds)

(https://i.imgur.com/YpUpfVV.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 02, 2020, 05:50:11 pm
I'm enjoying the self-awareness among the suddenly sombre Trumpers complaining about "the Left's" response to Trump getting the virus. Do they really think that everyone doesn't already know exactly how they would be reacting right now if Joe Biden were the one being carted off to the hospital?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 02, 2020, 05:50:59 pm
Trump comorbidities: age 74; overweight; mild heart disease; high cholesterol level; compulsive liar; authoritarian despot
Also low income.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on October 02, 2020, 06:11:08 pm
Also low income.

Also low reported income.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 02, 2020, 06:24:36 pm
It's hard to weep when arsonists burn themselves.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 02, 2020, 06:45:36 pm
It’s moments like these that leftists reveal themselves to be true degenerate losers and pieces of ****.  It’s fun to watch!!!  :D  :D  ;D
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 02, 2020, 06:55:52 pm
I'm enjoying the self-awareness among the suddenly sombre Trumpers complaining about "the Left's" response to Trump getting the virus. Do they really think that everyone doesn't already know exactly how they would be reacting right now if Joe Biden were the one being carted off to the hospital?
Trump supporters are the worst!  So I’m a act just like them!  It’s funny when you own yourself with your cluelessness.  I’d expect nothing less.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 02, 2020, 07:02:14 pm
Poor Shady.

Karma is a ****.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 02, 2020, 07:10:56 pm
It’s moments like these that leftists reveal themselves to be true degenerate losers and pieces of ****.  It’s fun to watch!!!  :D  :D  ;D
(Attachment Link)
I think all prominent Democrats have wished him good health. Four years ago today you and Trump were mocking Hillary because she had pneumonia.
I am happy to see you admit your behaviour makes you a piece of ****.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 02, 2020, 07:31:10 pm
It’s moments like these that leftists reveal themselves to be true degenerate losers and pieces of ****.  It’s fun to watch!!!  :D  :D  ;D
(Attachment Link)

I guess your buddy?idiot hasn't really turned the corner on Covid yet eh? At least not until he and his family get over it. Maybe you should mail donny a few masks.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 02, 2020, 07:37:19 pm
Trump supporters are the worst!  So I’m a act just like them!  It’s funny when you own yourself with your cluelessness.  I’d expect nothing less.

Is it true that you mocked Hillary Clinton when she had pneumonia? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 02, 2020, 09:08:39 pm
I think all prominent Democrats have wished him good health. Four years ago today you and Trump were mocking Hillary because she had pneumonia.
I am happy to see you admit your behaviour makes you a piece of ****.
I’m beginning to see why you were such a big fan of Michael Avenatti.  **** stains are attracted to **** stains.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 02, 2020, 09:17:27 pm
  **** stains are attracted to **** stains.
After watching this video of Trump mocking Hillary's pneumonia,  I have to agree.
https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/782673397952094208?s=09

https://www.businessinsider.com/trumpworld-delighted-cruelty-trump-positive-covid-test-demands-empathy-coronavirus-2020-10
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 02, 2020, 09:31:41 pm
But I thought it was just the sniffles anyway. Why get so upset about people making light of a case of the sniffles?  :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 02, 2020, 09:53:40 pm
It’s moments like these that leftists... 

Did you see the size of Trump’s mask as he shuffled to the helicopter???   It was HUGE!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: ?Impact on October 02, 2020, 10:24:46 pm
Did you see the size of Trump’s mask as he shuffled to the helicopter???   It was HUGE!

Every time you see him, he’s got a mask. He could be speaking 200 feet away from them, and he shows up with the biggest mask I’ve ever seen.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 02, 2020, 10:39:57 pm
Every time you see him, he’s got a mask. He could be speaking 200 feet away from them, and he shows up with the biggest mask I’ve ever seen.

I'm surprised trump was able to get a mask on his face now he has both feet so far in his mouth.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 02, 2020, 10:54:32 pm
October surprise:  Trump hospitalized for COVID.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on October 02, 2020, 11:05:48 pm
Did you see the size of Trump’s mask as he shuffled to the helicopter???   It was HUGE!

Oops, I was trying to click funny on this post, not disagree.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on October 02, 2020, 11:11:19 pm
October surprise:  Trump hospitalized for COVID.

I still can't help wondering why it took this long.  They've been acting like baboons all year.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 02, 2020, 11:17:04 pm
of those 150 guests attending the recent days White House super-spreader event (where Trump introduced his SCOTUS nominee), at least 6 have now tested positive for COVID-19... the latest being that of Kellyanne Conway - seen here close-talking to some guy at the event. Anyone recognize him?  ;D

(https://static.politico.com/dims4/default/4d8f198/2147483647/resize/2000x/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F3c%2F6e%2F45cded824efda592eda6e1f323a3%2Fgettyimages-1276872458-1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 02, 2020, 11:36:46 pm
Every time you see him, he’s got a mask. He could be speaking 200 feet away from them, and he shows up with the biggest mask I’ve ever seen.

Biden today... sending {Trump} a message!

(https://i.imgur.com/lKOEAmc.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 03, 2020, 12:05:09 am
another one bites the dust... er...

Trump campaign manager (Bill Stepien) tests positive for Covid-19... yesterday/today, Trumpsters have been calling for an election delay... or at least for 'Sleepy Joe' to suspend his campaign for 2 weeks!  ;D (of course, Trump's bellicose barking may have infected Biden at the debate - see incubation period).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 03, 2020, 08:58:16 am
I think the obvious moral to the story of the superspreader Supreme Court nomination event is that you don't **** with RBG's dying wishes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 03, 2020, 09:09:47 am
Three Republican senators now as well.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Dia on October 03, 2020, 10:58:41 am
Watched the live update, just now.  Doc says Trump is better than he was yesterday, won't give specifics on how ill he was or any tests.  Won't say he was never on oxygen, but specifies the times he wasn't  - all day Thursday, Friday at Walter Reed and today.  Implication is that he was on oxygen yesterday while still at White House.  He'll continue on Remesdivir.

So, if Trump was headed downhill fast and improved after taking Remesdivir, it'll be a huge boon for that company.  What better advertising could there be.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 03, 2020, 11:32:05 am
those testing positive: along with 3 reporters and 11 debate staff..... plus in the most recent announcements, former NJ Governor Chris Christie & current Republican Governor of Wisconsin Ron Johnson:

(https://i.imgur.com/Wrvy5AV.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 03, 2020, 11:40:13 am
I think the obvious moral to the story of the superspreader Supreme Court nomination event is that you don't **** with RBG's dying wishes.

Trump doubts Ruth Bader Ginsburg's dying wish, claiming Democrats wrote it (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/21/donald-trump-ruth-bader-ginsburg-dying-wish-democrats)

Quote
Donald Trump has attempted to cast doubt on Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s dying wish, baselessly claiming a statement released by the supreme court justice’s family was written by Adam Schiff, Nancy Pelosi or Chuck Schumer, prominent Democrats in Congress.

The move is likely to anger many who will see it as disrespectful to the millions of Americans mourning Ginsburg’s death, as well as a tasteless attack on the legacy of the pioneering woman justice.

Ginsburg died on Friday, from pancreatic cancer at the age of 87. NPR reported that she had dictated a statement to her granddaughter.

“My most fervent wish is that I will not be replaced until a new president is installed,” it said.

as an aside: 2 of Republican Senators testing positive (Lee & Tillis) are both on the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee - potentially jeopardizing the GOP's intent to swiftly confirm Judge Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court... if they were both to remain unable to vote in the full Senate through the end of the month.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 03, 2020, 11:42:41 am
those testing positive: along with 3 reporters and 11 debate staff..... plus in the most recent announcements, former NJ Governor Chris Christie & current Republican Governor of Wisconsin Ron Johnson:

(https://i.imgur.com/Wrvy5AV.png)

If Trump lives through his bout with the virus, can he change his position now and start supporting the taking of precautions? Would the lowlife half or three-quarters of his base be able to tolerate the 180 in the wind?

I think that if he doesn't swing 180 he will be in deep trouble if the predictions of a second wave come true!

On another subject, what can we do to get this forum rolling with high quality comments and decent people? Anything?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 03, 2020, 12:00:25 pm
Turns out he was diagnosed on Wednesday but continued to his rally maskless. The number of infected among his contacts keeps rising. Just when I thought the shitshow couldn't get any worse.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 03, 2020, 12:31:18 pm
Stay positive Donald.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 03, 2020, 12:47:56 pm
Stay positive Donald.

Thoughts and prayers for the virus.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 03, 2020, 12:56:11 pm
Breaking News: In case he needs to assume Trump's duties, Vice President Mike Pence has been moved to Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 03, 2020, 01:04:26 pm
his crypt remains closed... no word yet on the status of ColludyRudy:

(https://i.imgur.com/UEHeJab.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 03, 2020, 01:05:50 pm
Breaking News: In case he needs to assume Trump's duties, Vice President Mike Pence has been moved to Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey

Wishful thinking maybe but I get the idea that Trump is in some serious trouble with the virus. Obviously nobody is going to say until he's toast.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 03, 2020, 01:28:04 pm
bold move to bury that tax thingee!

(https://i.imgur.com/sO7i5m4.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 03, 2020, 03:06:57 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/WC1jfgV.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 03, 2020, 03:09:01 pm
From Russian state TV.

Quote
"Well, we hope Donald Trump gets well," said Olga Skabyeva, host of the talk show 60 minutes, before breaking into a grin and delivering the punchline.

"Donald, hold on. Melania, hold on, too! No matter how you spin it, you're still our candidate !" she said, playing up a common theme on state TV: that Russia "owns" Trump.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Dia on October 03, 2020, 04:27:38 pm
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Dia on October 03, 2020, 04:41:18 pm
Twitter says that after the live update by docs, Trump's Chief of Staff went OTR and told reporters that Trump's vitals were very concerning and the next 48 hours would be critical, and that a path to recovery was not clear at this time.

Options:
True - but why did docs lie, and why would CoS provide contradictory info?

False - but when Trump makes a "miraculous" recovery in a few days, his base will be energized and exultant.

Conclusion:  wait and see, then read a history book about it in 5 or 10 years.



Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 03, 2020, 11:52:15 pm
Quote
An hour and a half before the fundraiser, some senior staff and the president were informed Hope Hicks had tested positive for coronavirus, White House chief of staff Mark Meadows told reporters on Friday.
The decision was made to still hold the fundraiser despite Trump's exposure; attendees say they were not notified the president had been exposed to COVID-19.

Arriving at 2:33 p.m., the president then attended the indoor and outdoor events.
If donors gave, or raised, $50,000, they were invited to a photo opportunity with Trump.
The two attendees from Texas who participated in the photo opportunity said they had been tested for coronavirus before arriving at the VIP reception where they took their photo with the president.
They said each individually conversed with Trump for less than a minute while the photo was taken and maintained six feet of distance. The attendees at the VIP reception did not wear masks, they said...

https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/america-votes/2020/10/3/1_5131819.html

Knowingly putting people directly at risk by a possibly infected Trump and staff might be a new low for this Whitehouse....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 04, 2020, 01:41:23 am
https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/america-votes/2020/10/3/1_5131819.html

Knowingly putting people directly at risk by a possibly infected Trump and staff might be a new low for this Whitehouse....

Exactly.  T say trumps actions on this issue could be defined as criminal. The likes of shady will babble on. People will die unnecesarrilly.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on October 04, 2020, 01:56:26 am
Guys, I still don't know what to make of any of this.  He's lied so much that I could see this all playing out as anything from him faking it... to him already being dead.  And pretty much everything in between.

He's America's of Kim Jong-un.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 04, 2020, 02:15:49 am
Guys, I still don't know what to make of any of this.  He's lied so much that I could see this all playing out as anything from him faking it... to him already being dead.  And pretty much everything in between.

He's America's of Kim Jong-un.

Perhaps at least finally he will now sway away from using his mouthpiece to disregard this health issue now that he is affected by it. \but who knows with this idiot?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on October 04, 2020, 02:22:52 am
Perhaps at least finally he will now sway away from using his mouthpiece to disregard this health issue now that he is affected by it. \but who knows with this idiot?

I'll go with a hell no on that one.  Trump has never EVER been wrong on anything.  Narcissists never are.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 04, 2020, 12:05:21 pm
I'll go with a hell no on that one.  Trump has never EVER been wrong on anything.  Narcissists never are.
Trump is most likely going to make a speedy recovery and be back telling his followers that the virus in no big deal. Calling into question whether or not he actually did contact the virus.

So who knows what is the actual truth?

Then on the other hand he could die from the virus and they would have to find something to do with a 300 pound carcass?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 04, 2020, 02:48:05 pm
I'll go with a hell no on that one.  Trump has never EVER been wrong on anything.  Narcissists never are.

I suspect there will be a ton of names that will pop up as the WH contract tracing proceeds. Hopefully they will not play follow the leader and don their masks as they as they head for testing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 04, 2020, 04:41:55 pm
WHAT THE ****? Donny now leaves the hospital and takes a spin around with some sort of motorcade. In my opinion, that makes him a criminal. Lock the motherfucker up. Sorry if that offends nitwits like shady. But nitwits are....?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 04, 2020, 05:18:20 pm
Trump is now receiving a steroid treatment for Covid.  That's big news, because this is a treatment they only use for patients in serious cases:

Quote
Dexamethasone has shown to be beneficial in those with severe Covid-19 because it can stop the immune system from going into overdrive. When this happens, the immune system can do more harm than good, attacking the body in what’s called a cytokine storm.

    However, the drug is not recommended for more mild cases of the disease.

    “The fact that he got the steroid sets up a bit of a red flag that there’s something going on here,” NBC News senior medical correspondent Dr. John Torres told Kate Snow on Sunday. “I think they might be painting a little bit of a rosy picture for everyone.”

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 04, 2020, 10:57:12 pm
Now trump takes a little spin arounf the block kn owing full well he is carrying covid. How **** stupid is that? Shady?
People may get sick and die. I know who I hope one of them is.

I hasten to add not anyone on this board.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 04, 2020, 11:29:15 pm
Now trump takes a little spin arounf the block kn owing full well he is carrying covid. How **** stupid is that? Shady?
People may get sick and die. I know who I hope one of them is.

I hasten to add not anyone on this board.

I think this was a “Weekend at Bernie’s” movement...   I think they’re trotting around a corpse!!   :P
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 04, 2020, 11:40:08 pm
Trump is now receiving a steroid treatment for Covid.  That's big news, because this is a treatment they only use for patients in serious cases:

 -k

I got a cold in the winter and doc gave me an inhaler with steroids in it to help clear the airways of congestion and reduce inflammation in the lungs, basically just helping me breath easier.  It's probably not a big deal.  COVID attacks the lungs.

Trump took the motorcade stroll around Walter Reed to show everyone he wasn't on his deathbed.  I think this is all so sensationalized by the media.  He probably just feels cold/flu symptoms.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 04, 2020, 11:41:04 pm
I think this was a “Weekend at Bernie’s” movement...   I think they’re trotting around a corpse!!   :P

Had a mask on, could be a double, like Kim Jung and Saddam LOL.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 05, 2020, 12:03:40 am
I hope the "current" situation will have an effect on the actual current situation, and convince even the ding dongs who support trump to wake up. Wushfull thinking I suppose?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Dia on October 05, 2020, 12:32:51 am
I got a cold in the winter and doc gave me an inhaler with steroids in it to help clear the airways of congestion and reduce inflammation in the lungs, basically just helping me breath easier.  It's probably not a big deal.  COVID attacks the lungs.

Trump took the motorcade stroll around Walter Reed to show everyone he wasn't on his deathbed.  I think this is all so sensationalized by the media.  He probably just feels cold/flu symptoms.

Yeah.  All the treatments he's receiving have been given to patients with mild to moderate symptoms, even the experimental one.  Pretty sure Trump will be fine and his followers will have even more reason to think he's God incarnate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 05, 2020, 12:39:50 am
I think this is all so sensationalized by the media.  He probably just feels cold/flu symptoms.

no - there was genuine concern for Trump's well being... he had a fever and required supplemental oxygen on at least 2 occasions (his oxygen sat levels dropped into the low 90s (on at least 2 occasions) - talking head medical experts attempting to interpret what his doctor was saying, interpret his oxygen sat level might have dropped into the high 80s. Also of interest in terms of severity is just how Trump's fever was brought under control... or 'managed'. He initially was given the experimental (unapproved by the U.S. FDA) drug treatment Regeneron (described as a monoclonal antibody cocktail); shortly after he was put on a 5-day regimen of the drug Remdesivir. Most recently Trump was given the corticosteroid drug Dexamethasone (not recommended for mild/moderate cases of Covid-19)

(https://i.imgur.com/ldymPfF.png)

although the U.S. FDA has yet to approve any Covid-19 treatments, Trump today received an experimental antibody cocktail being developed by the drug maker Regeneron (currently in clinical trials... usurping the lack of formal FDA approval of the experimental treatment, Trump received it on so-called compassionate grounds)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 05, 2020, 01:50:38 am
U.S. Secret Service agents... take a bullet for the President, not from the President!

Quote from: U.S. President Donald J. Trump
I didn’t want to do it, but the secret service agents, big macho guys, came up to me and they were crying. ‘Sir, we’ve seen the fake news. It would be the honor of our lives to drive you. Please, sir, please do it.’ And these guys had never cried in their lives. So I did it.

(https://i.imgur.com/7onas30.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 05, 2020, 09:36:23 am
U.S. Secret Service agents... take a bullet for the President, not from the President!

(https://i.imgur.com/7onas30.png)

Apparently one symptom of Corona virus is to push the effects of narcissism to new levels.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 05, 2020, 10:48:50 am
Chris Cristi is in the hospital with COVID now after being on Trump’s debate prep team. 

Morbidly obese and a history of asthma... 

At least he gets the medical care that most Americans aren’t privileged enough to receive.  He gets to go to hospital with “mild symptoms” as a “precaution”. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 05, 2020, 11:30:06 am
NcEnany now.

And the beat goes on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 05, 2020, 11:31:20 am
it is what it is! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1246454590163300358/pu/vid/960x528/nuvsrlEjF4zXFcWr.mp4?tag=10)

(https://i.imgur.com/ULJTDrL.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 05, 2020, 11:41:51 am
most/many of Trump's Walter Reed doctors are also in the military - this non-military doctor is an attending doc at Walter Reed Hospital...

(https://i.imgur.com/WpNZwlr.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 05, 2020, 12:18:07 pm
it is what it is! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1246454590163300358/pu/vid/960x528/nuvsrlEjF4zXFcWr.mp4?tag=10)

(https://i.imgur.com/ULJTDrL.png)

All these new infections may not be consistent with what's happening with their infection rate overall.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

If Trump is released from the hospital in the next few days, it will be suspect of some hoaxing going on. Personally, i believe that Trump really is sick, but who knows?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 05, 2020, 01:37:19 pm
As if it couldn't get any more ridiculous/retarded, the trump team is now criticizing Biden for not having "first hand experience" regarding Covid. Maybe if stupid bugger donny had taken obvious precautions (i.e. a mask) he also wouldn't have the first hand experience he is now going through.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 05, 2020, 03:55:32 pm
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/national/

By the way - NBC/WSJ had a poll yesterday with Biden 14 points ahead.

Also... turns out old people aren't really into the 'let gramma and grampa die' message...  CNN just had 62% of seniors vote thumbs down on Trump handling the pandemic.  But the no-education-prepper vote is with Trump hands down.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 05, 2020, 09:09:28 pm
Quote
Trump is now receiving a steroid treatment for Covid.  That's big news, because this is a treatment they only use for patients in serious cases:
I got a cold in the winter and doc gave me an inhaler with steroids in it to help clear the airways of congestion and reduce inflammation in the lungs, basically just helping me breath easier.  It's probably not a big deal.  COVID attacks the lungs.
Most medications have side effects. The steroid that is given to Covid patients is probably different than the one you were taking.

From: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-trump-steroid/trump-steroid-treatment-for-covid-19-raises-potential-side-effect-risk-idUKKBN26Q2S4
Trump’s medical team on Sunday said the president was started on dexamethasone, a generic steroid long and widely used to reduce inflammation associated with other diseases. The steroid was begun after Trump experienced low oxygen levels....But dexamethasone has typically been reserved for more serious cases.
...
But studies show the drug may be harmful in people with milder COVID-19 because it can suppress their natural immune response. In addition, side effects can include physical problems such as blurred vision and irregular heartbeat, as well as personality changes and difficulty thinking...


Its the whole 'difficulty thinking' that should be of most concern to the average person concerned about what the president might do. (Well, maybe... given the fact that its Trump, it probably doesn't matter.)

In other words, probably not a medication you will want to give unless the patient has a need for it.
Quote
Trump took the motorcade stroll around Walter Reed to show everyone he wasn't on his deathbed.
There were other ways that Trump could have demonstrated that he "wasn't on his deathbed" without putting the lives of his security detail at risk... Something as simple as releasing a video would have done the same thing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: msj on October 05, 2020, 09:18:08 pm
Trump is trending on Twitter under #gasping because he is so short of breathe as he tries to do his Mussolini impersonation on the White House balcony.

I understand that Covid is more dangerous when it hits you in the second round which is usually 8+ days after getting it so a pity if it flares up again.



Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 05, 2020, 11:20:25 pm
Lets hope Covid takes donny where he deserves to go. Sadly it may well happen he will take others with him who don't deserve it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 05, 2020, 11:25:11 pm
Trump is trending on Twitter under #gasping because he is so short of breathe as he tries to do his Mussolini impersonation on the White House balcony.

Trump #gasping (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1313291122572095489/pu/vid/720x720/qMfSC73qtrd-XdGs.mp4?tag=10)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 05, 2020, 11:33:28 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/7aVFTY8.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 05, 2020, 11:43:03 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/7aVFTY8.png)

Hey that reminds me of days gone by when we had The Three Stooges to laugh at. Unfortunately you can't laugh at the current version.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 06, 2020, 12:09:32 am
Donny says don't be afraid of Covid. Over 210 thousand Americans have died from it. DUH!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 06, 2020, 07:14:55 am
I can't stand to see someone gasping.  Makes me very uncomfortable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 06, 2020, 11:54:36 am
Hey that reminds me of days gone by when we had The Three Stooges to laugh at. Unfortunately you can't laugh at the current version.

Great photoshopping!
But the reality in it is in his lack of ability to debate. Now all Biden needs to do is smile and laugh at his remarks in the next debate. If it happens?
Avoiding it could very well be the reason why Trump got sick. Or in other words, he faked it?

Ratcheting up sympathy for an ailing president who's apparently in distress with his laboured breathing, would be a powerful message to Americans.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 06, 2020, 12:34:37 pm
I don’t think it was faked.  Trump loves rallies and mocks people with illness as well as mocking any precautions against COVID19.  This hurts his brand immensely.  And I don’t think most Americans would want an ‘ailing president’, regardless of how sympathetic they may feel.   

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 06, 2020, 01:38:15 pm
I don’t think it was faked.  Trump loves rallies and mocks people with illness as well as mocking any precautions against COVID19.  This hurts his brand immensely.  And I don’t think most Americans would want an ‘ailing president’, regardless of how sympathetic they may feel.

I don't think the truth can be hidden on whether he's faking or really is sick. And frankly speaking there are several indications that the big news is being contemplated and prepared for if Trump's condition goes downhill.

The biggest question in my mind has to be on the many drug treatments he's receive are making the difference. Otherwise a man in his physical condition and his age, should keep him down for a couple of months. If in fact it doesn't kill him off?

What do you think? Are the drugs changing what should be happening in a few days?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 06, 2020, 03:06:25 pm
They have had him on steroids so my answer is yes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 06, 2020, 03:14:40 pm
Apparently, the Whitehouse physician, who took the lead on all the press conferences, is an osteopath.   Nothing to do with infectious disease and a bit of an “alternative” medical field.  Hmmmm....   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 06, 2020, 03:19:56 pm
Apparently, the Whitehouse physician, who took the lead on all the press conferences, is an osteopath.   Nothing to do with infectious disease and a bit of an “alternative” medical field.  Hmmmm....

Perfect explanation there squid. He's the closest the Trumpers could get to a doctor who would be willing to compromise his reputation.

Jeez, it never fkn ends does it!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Dia on October 06, 2020, 03:46:51 pm
Trump decided today there'd be no more "stimulus" spending till after he's re-elected.  Stock market dropped after the announcement. 

"I feel great, Covid is nothing to worry about, **** you all who've been impacted by this virus, vote for me or you'll be sorry."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 06, 2020, 05:33:49 pm
They have had him on steroids so my answer is yes.

This is how they would handle any president who is sick with  a life threatening disease, for security reasons. They need to make the move to Pence within minutes if it turns sour for the mad psychopath.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 06, 2020, 07:40:12 pm
This is how they would handle any president who is sick with  a life threatening disease, for security reasons. They need to make the move to Pence within minutes if it turns sour for the mad psychopath.

They had him on Dexamethasone.


The list of 19 common side effects include

Aggression
Agitation
Anxiety
Irritibility
Depression
Mood changes
Nervousness

Plus a list of less common side effects as long as your arm.


Ref: Mayo Clinic.

Just the thing for a guy with the launch codes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 07, 2020, 02:39:11 am
Trump's little goon Stephen Miller too.  Any news on Rudy? He was coughing badly during his interview on Fox yesterday, I hear.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 07, 2020, 10:25:57 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tZVnbDq9B4 --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C76XMCJCVs
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 07, 2020, 11:56:42 am
Little Stevie Miller. Made my day so far.

What an incompetent boob. Trump can't even protect his inner circle, let alone a country.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 07, 2020, 12:15:25 pm
They have had him on steroids so my answer is yes.

So wilbur, are you suggesting that steroids is a sure indication of trouble? Or even big trouble?
Would they even release information on steroids being used if it was a clear indication that he needs drastic measures?

I can see a reason why they would be trying to hide a sickness that's more than it appears so far, but it may be only for a few more days.

The wild card is how Trump will handle it and so even if he knows he's quite sick he would still be blowing smoke on having the next debate. This is all something to watch with curiosity!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 07, 2020, 12:25:40 pm
So wilbur, are you suggesting that steroids is a sure indication of trouble? Or even big trouble?
Would they even release information on steroids being used if it was a clear indication that he needs drastic measures?

I can see a reason why they would be trying to hide a sickness that's more than it appears so far, but it may be only for a few more days.

The wild card is how Trump will handle it and so even if he knows he's quite sick he would still be blowing smoke on having the next debate. This is all something to watch with curiosity!

I don't know. Trump has shown his love of magic cures and subservient doctors so it wouldn't surprise me if he was pressuring them for everything in the medicine cabinet. I was speculating on the effect of these drugs on his mental state rather than his actual physical condition.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 07, 2020, 12:46:47 pm
I don't know. Trump has shown his love of magic cures and subservient doctors so it wouldn't surprise me if he was pressuring them for everything in the medicine cabinet. I was speculating on the effect of these drugs on his mental state rather than his actual physical condition.

Yeah I know what you were doing. I think that Trump's love of magic cures can be attributed to his political needs and not something he would be pushing when his health is at question. He would more likely take the advice verbatim from the doctors. But that doesn't mean we're hearing any truth of what's going on.

A mystery for now but at least we can place some friendly bets!

I'll go with him being quite sick and there won't be a debate with Biden because of his condition. You?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 07, 2020, 12:52:46 pm
My guess is there won't be but it would be interesting with Trump hopped up on steroids. The last debate might seem pretty tame in comparison.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 07, 2020, 02:39:52 pm
My guess is there won't be but it would be interesting with Trump hopped up on steroids. The last debate might seem pretty tame in comparison.

I don't even want to see CLIPS of that one
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 07, 2020, 03:12:28 pm
I don't even want to see CLIPS of that one

I would pay for tickets to that one. Trump isn't capable of debating for a few reasons but mainly because anything outside his own head isn't believed to be possible.
He created the best sort of personal appearance in front of the public that he was capable of and that was yapping at his support base and having them cheer and clap their hands.
Now he's faced with an actual debate and he's shown the limit of his ability. That's the reason why the next debate can't happen.
But it will have to be charged against Biden pulling out of course.

The first debate hurt him big time and it would be insane to repeat it. No pun intended.

The hand of cards held by Trump now contains nothing but cheating.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 07, 2020, 03:17:37 pm
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/

Every few days the indicators tick over for Biden.  Less than 4 weeks to go there needs to be a bombshell to turn things around.  And even then, would it compare to:

-Getting covid after refusing to wear a mask
-Being $400 million in debt to the mafia
-Everything else

Maybe they'll find that Biden used his own email account to send GIFs to his grandkids...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 07, 2020, 03:24:48 pm
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/

Every few days the indicators tick over for Biden.  Less than 4 weeks to go there needs to be a bombshell to turn things around.  And even then, would it compare to:

-Getting covid after refusing to wear a mask
-Being $400 million in debt to the mafia
-Everything else

Maybe they'll find that Biden used his own email account to send GIFs to his grandkids...

Yeah, you nailed it MH! Is there a bombshell big enough to outtrump his illness and his put down of masks?

What could it possibly be? Something really fkn nasty about Biden? Something that Trump could never be found guilty of too?

or

Biden dead? Nothing will be off the table as to the means of making that so. Then they turn to Harris?

I'm also thinking Trump dead and the Repubs going forward with Pence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 07, 2020, 07:22:56 pm
If one of the candidates croak, they will stay on the ballot.  It’s too late to change the ballots.

I am speculating that the VP would then become the Pres.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on October 08, 2020, 12:19:17 am
Trump's little goon Stephen Miller too.  Any news on Rudy? He was coughing badly during his interview on Fox yesterday, I hear.

 -k
What about the poor fly that landed on Mike Pence's head?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 08, 2020, 06:53:02 am
Yes, poor fly has to quarantine now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 08, 2020, 09:11:16 am
as seen on the fly's new Twitter account: "I am Mike Pence's only black friend"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 08, 2020, 10:40:13 am
in keeping with Trump calling American military war dead... losers & suckers, in regards his Sept 27 meeting with Gold Star families:

(https://i.imgur.com/3UzMrUO.png)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 08, 2020, 10:47:38 am
Trumpy says he won't waste his time with the planned virtual debate - won't attend! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1314194820781477888/pu/vid/1280x720/IjP1-nRfo9JN_zFf.mp4?tag=10) Concerned that 'they can cut you off at any time'  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 08, 2020, 10:55:52 am
https://twitter.com/PeteButtigieg/status/1314212949255319556?s=20

Buttigieg on FOX paints Trump as 'afraid'...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 08, 2020, 12:47:11 pm
From another comments section.

"RBG sent the fly"

This guy gets my best of the day award.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 08, 2020, 01:04:23 pm
https://twitter.com/PeteButtigieg/status/1314212949255319556?s=20

Buttigieg on FOX paints Trump as 'afraid'...

Trump needed to get out of debating again because he wouldn't have been able to help his ratings. He showed the limit of his ability to debate in the first one. I suggest that his handlers are controlling his strategies now.

There will absolutely be an October surprise that will tear Biden up and it has to be soon because the voting is taking place ahead of time.

I would just suggest that sex related is out because of Trump's personal performance. And guesses? I'm stuck with death of one of them. Or mabye an outside chance of Trump feigning enough illness to pull out.

The big issue that makes some guesses invalid is the fact that a psychopath can never accept defeat, and so consequently can't be defeated.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 08, 2020, 02:06:13 pm
What about the poor fly that landed on Mike Pence's head?
Well, they are attracted to crap.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 08, 2020, 02:11:41 pm
Trump needed to get out of debating again because he wouldn't have been able to help his ratings.
The problem is, when you're running behind (as Trump is) you need debates in order to try to close the gap (in the hopes that your opponent happens to make some huge mistake or loses badly). Of course, the problem for Trump is that he is such an inept and unlikable person, the chance of him actually looking good in a debate is slim to none.
Quote
There will absolutely be an October surprise that will tear Biden up and it has to be soon because the voting is taking place ahead of time.

I would just suggest that sex related is out because of Trump's personal performance. And guesses? I'm stuck with death of one of them.
Well, usually an "october surprise" is not something that is orchestrated ahead of time, so if it does happen it may be something totally out of left field.

If its something Trump is involved in? My guess is some big action on the part of the DOJ (maybe legal action against Clinton or other Democrats on false charges).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 08, 2020, 02:25:21 pm
The problem is, when you're running behind (as Trump is) you need debates in order to try to close the gap (in the hopes that your opponent happens to make some huge mistake or loses badly). Of course, the problem for Trump is that he is such an inept and unlikable person, the chance of him actually looking good in a debate is slim to none.Well, usually an "october surprise" is not something that is orchestrated ahead of time, so if it does happen it may be something totally out of left field.

If its something Trump is involved in? My guess is some big action on the part of the DOJ (maybe legal action against Clinton or other Democrats on false charges).

I think that's a good guess!
But would it be effective enough to turn the tide?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 08, 2020, 02:30:39 pm
Quote
If its something Trump is involved in? My guess is some big action on the part of the DOJ (maybe legal action against Clinton or other Democrats on false charges).
I think that's a good guess!
But would it be effective enough to turn the tide?
Probably not.

In fact there is possibly a chance it might backfire, as people might see it as an abuse of power. (Kind of like how Trump thought "nominate a woman for the supreme court will help shore up support with women voters" seems to be backfiring on the Republicans, as most people still think it should be left to whomever wins the 2020 election to select the new judge.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 08, 2020, 02:39:45 pm
I think that's a good guess!
But would it be effective enough to turn the tide?

Probably not.

In fact there is possibly a chance it might backfire, as people might see it as an abuse of power. (Kind of like how Trump thought "nominate a woman for the supreme court will help shore up support with women voters" seems to be backfiring on the Republicans, as most people still think it should be left to whomever wins the 2020 election to select the new judge.)

I couldn't say for sure that Barrett hasn't gone down as a plus for Trump? There are too many other considerations to judge.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 08, 2020, 02:52:29 pm
trump claims his getting covid was a "blessing from God". Having trouble how he arrived at that conclusion. Drug therapy maybe?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 08, 2020, 03:01:02 pm
I couldn't say for sure that Barrett hasn't gone down as a plus for Trump? There are too many other considerations to judge.
Currently more people are opposed to her being confirmed than against... (Right now its 46% against, 42% for)

It also seems to have helped energize the Democrats, and increased their fundraising efforts.

See:
http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/10/07/rel12c.-.scotus,.aca.pdf
https://www.newsweek.com/amy-coney-barretts-nomination-energizes-democratic-womens-groups-boosts-fundraising-planned-1535081
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 08, 2020, 04:42:16 pm
I am so sick of donald trump and I hope the American voters will concur and throw the **** out of office, lest they continue to be the laughing stock around most of the world. Suggesting people not protect themselves from a proven deadly virus seems somehow criminal to me, and I would like to see a prosecution. Of course he has numerous others to face should he land on the street before statute of limitations run out on previous charges. Sorry to derail you Shady.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 08, 2020, 08:14:53 pm
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1314256068663480323

They're talking about the 25th amendment. Trump seems particularly unhinged these days.  He's on Hannity right now, apparently, after spending ONE HOUR on FOX this morning.

During a pandemic and a campaign.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 08, 2020, 09:09:35 pm
The Regeneron Trump was given was originally derived  from cells of an embryonic kidney from an elective abortion.

Hmm.

The CEO of Regeneron is a member of Trump's golf club. Trump calls him Lenny.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 08, 2020, 11:11:57 pm
Hey Shady, your buddy says covid is a gift from god. Are you hoping to receive a similar gift soon
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 09, 2020, 02:13:48 am
Speaking of unhinged, the news from Michigan today was pretty insane.   The FBI arrested a bunch of "militia" guys for a plot to kidnap Governor Whitmer, hold a "trial", and execute her for treason.  This is domestic terrorism.  These guys look like a bunch of cavemen in their mugshots.  When Trump tweeted "LIBERATE MICHIGAN", these are the people who were listening.

Which brings me to a nagging thought that has been bothering me.  We know that Trump isn't going to accept the results of the election. He's going to use every possible tactic to try to overturn or invalidate the results.   It's more than likely that he will declare the results a fraud and claim that the election was rigged or stolen.  And some number of people are going to listen. We could see a lot of chaos in America from November to January... and perhaps beyond.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 09, 2020, 08:17:13 am
Speaking of unhinged, the news from Michigan today was pretty insane.   The FBI arrested a bunch of "militia" guys for a plot to kidnap Governor Whitmer, hold a "trial", and execute her for treason.  This is domestic terrorism.  These guys look like a bunch of cavemen in their mugshots.  When Trump tweeted "LIBERATE MICHIGAN", these are the people who were listening.

Which brings me to a nagging thought that has been bothering me.  We know that Trump isn't going to accept the results of the election. He's going to use every possible tactic to try to overturn or invalidate the results.   It's more than likely that he will declare the results a fraud and claim that the election was rigged or stolen.  And some number of people are going to listen. We could see a lot of chaos in America from November to January... and perhaps beyond.


 -k

This problem isn't going to go away.  Facebook and Russia have too much invested for unity to take hold now...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 09, 2020, 09:41:44 am
Speaking of unhinged, the news from Michigan today was pretty insane.   The FBI arrested a bunch of "militia" guys for a plot to kidnap Governor Whitmer, hold a "trial", and execute her for treason.  This is domestic terrorism.  These guys look like a bunch of cavemen in their mugshots.  When Trump tweeted "LIBERATE MICHIGAN", these are the people who were listening.
Yup. Trump did everything he could to stir up dissent. Then, after the kidnapping attempt was foiled, complained that the governor wasn't grateful to him personally for stopping the plot.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 09, 2020, 10:50:17 am
Pelosi is trying to use their 25th. amendment to remove Trump from office because of him being umfit mentally. It's a ploy being used for the purpose of the election, even though it would be quite legitimate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Dia on October 09, 2020, 11:00:07 am
Pelosi is trying to use their 25th. amendment to remove Trump from office because of him being umfit mentally. It's a ploy being used for the purpose of the election, even though it would be quite legitimate.
Seems like a dumb move, imo.  Even if it were successful, all the republicans who've had enough of Trump would probably have no problem supporting Pence.  And if it doesn't work, just another reason for people who think Trump has had a raw deal from Democrats will just double down on their support, even if they were wavering.

Trump should get voted out, not 'removed' by some other means.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 09, 2020, 11:09:04 am
Seems like a dumb move, imo.  Even if it were successful, all the republicans who've had enough of Trump would probably have no problem supporting Pence.  And if it doesn't work, just another reason for people who think Trump has had a raw deal from Democrats will just double down on their support, even if they were wavering.

Trump should get voted out, not 'removed' by some other means.

Yes, it could be dumb but it also could be smart because of the message it sends on the fact that Trump can be considered a candidate for the 25th. amendment. And it's also strengthened with the visible move away from Trump by a few GOP senators already.

Big decisions such as this are never clear cut dumb or smart. It also provides a solution for a psychopath never accepting defeat. However unsatisfactory that is for Trump.

And the political instability in that country now is so shaky that it could result in violence on Trump's behalf. Larger numbers of extreme rightist would be able to gain the courage that the 13 lacked.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 09, 2020, 11:25:48 am
Is it dumber than a live televised medical exam of the president ?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-will-undergo-televised-medical-evaluation-on-friday-night-fox-news-announces

 ??? ??? ???

I'm thinking this is fake...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 09, 2020, 11:53:12 am
oh my! Fox News announced its resident medical expert, Dr. Marc Siegel, "will, tonight, conduct a televised medical evaluation and interview" of Trump! ... the same "expert" who has repeatedly pushed the unproven drug hydroxychloroquine as a COVID-19 cure in Fox News interviews, and in March falsely claimed the disease was no worse than the common flu.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 09, 2020, 11:55:22 am
oh my! Fox News announced its resident medical expert, Dr. Marc Siegel, "will, tonight, conduct a televised medical evaluation and interview" of Trump! ... the same "expert" who has repeatedly pushed the unproven drug hydroxychloroquine as a COVID-19 cure in Fox News interviews, and in March falsely claimed the disease was no worse than the common flu.

If the circus isn't working, then parade out the lead clowns...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 09, 2020, 11:58:58 am
oh my! Fox News announced its resident medical expert, Dr. Marc Siegel, "will, tonight, conduct a televised medical evaluation and interview" of Trump! ... the same "expert" who has repeatedly pushed the unproven drug hydroxychloroquine as a COVID-19 cure in Fox News interviews, and in March falsely claimed the disease was no worse than the common flu.

update from the waldo's crack research team: the exam/interview will be conducted remotely. Wait... so Trump will do this virtual promo, but won't do a virtual debate with Biden!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 09, 2020, 12:24:27 pm
Is it dumber than a live televised medical exam of the president ?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-will-undergo-televised-medical-evaluation-on-friday-night-fox-news-announces

 ??? ??? ???

I'm thinking this is fake...

It definitely should be fake. I'm with you on that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on October 09, 2020, 01:07:35 pm
I am so sick of donald trump and I hope the American voters will concur and throw the **** out of office, lest they continue to be the laughing stock around most of the world.
Trump as it seems to be so easily forgotten or overlooked is a symptom of a deeply rooted malaise, he is not the cause. It's probably unrealistic to assume America will just turn around with the removal of Donald Trump from office.  Inertia alone is enough to maintain America's headlong plunge down the same direction it's been heading for decades and the slope is so heavily loaded with other 8-balls they act like marbles under foot. 

There was a brief moment following the 2nd WW when the beacon burned as brightly as it ever has but then there seems to have been a backlash against a dilution of American exceptionalism and manifest destiny as evidenced by its reaction to civil rights, minority rights and democratic rights, especially those of people in other countries. Donald Trump is merely a reflection of the bullying self-absorbed narcissistic nation he leads and whose dysfunction is now so evident there is nowhere to turn.   Laughing at a cornered desperate narcissist that's nuclear armed seems a reckless course but maybe its like laughing in the face of danger when the time to change course has likely passed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on October 09, 2020, 01:20:02 pm
Seems like a dumb move, imo.  Even if it were successful, all the republicans who've had enough of Trump would probably have no problem supporting Pence.  And if it doesn't work, just another reason for people who think Trump has had a raw deal from Democrats will just double down on their support, even if they were wavering.

Trump should get voted out, not 'removed' by some other means.
Unfortunately that vote will need to be too obviously overwhelming to ignore.  Unless its Trump of course, winning by 49. whatever % of the vote just isn't going to cut it and I wonder if even a Dem victory by 60% would make a dent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 09, 2020, 01:49:35 pm
Trump as it seems to be so easily forgotten or overlooked is a symptom of a deeply rooted malaise, he is not the cause. It's probably unrealistic to assume America will just turn around with the removal of Donald Trump from office.  Inertia alone is enough to maintain America's headlong plunge down the same direction it's been heading for decades and the slope is so heavily loaded with other 8-balls they act like marbles under foot. 

There was a brief moment following the 2nd WW when the beacon burned as brightly as it ever has but then there seems to have been a backlash against a dilution of American exceptionalism and manifest destiny as evidenced by its reaction to civil rights, minority rights and democratic rights, especially those of people in other countries. Donald Trump is merely a reflection of the bullying self-absorbed narcissistic nation he leads and whose dysfunction is now so evident there is nowhere to turn.   Laughing at a cornered desperate narcissist that's nuclear armed seems a reckless course but maybe its like laughing in the face of danger when the time to change course has likely passed.

There was no such moment.  There was a moment for working class white people perhaps, but only for a generation or so.  The shining moment is coming.  When you think about how easy it would be: the younger generation have been ripped off by trickle down for 40 years.  Once the benefactors die off (over the next ten years) it would be easy as a dog shaking off excess water.

Hard left turn ahead...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 09, 2020, 03:12:47 pm
Trump plans a public event tomorrow at the WH, and he's going to ignore he's a health hazard. All I have to say is if you're stupid enough to attend, then you're probably stupid enough the world would be better off without you. So enjoy your dinner, and breath deep.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 09, 2020, 03:16:01 pm
Trump as it seems to be so easily forgotten or overlooked is a symptom of a deeply rooted malaise, he is not the cause. It's probably unrealistic to assume America will just turn around with the removal of Donald Trump from office. 

I think you've nailed it right on with that which I've quoted. But  I think there are two factors that have become important to consider becuae of Trump.

1. the malise has been deepened to the extreme with Trump and that will prompt a reaction to turn the other way. Not an equal and opposite reaction but significant nonetheless.

2. The American people are ready to stand up for their piece of the pie. They won't get that from Biden or the establishment Dem party to their liking and so thie efforts will continue, being backed by a faction within the Dem party that isn't establishment oriented. And then there's Bernie's promise of exactly that which the American people really and truly desire. Bernie has promised to make a big noise if Biden doesn't deliver. Bernie and his agenda of social reform could become more powerful than the president and his title. He could force Biden to become a socially responsible president.

Those are the reasons why America might be saved and a bright future is on the horizon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 09, 2020, 03:27:43 pm
I think you've nailed it right on with that which I've quoted. But  I think there are two factors that have become important to consider becuae of Trump.

1. the malise has been deepened to the extreme with Trump and that will prompt a reaction to turn the other way. Not an equal and opposite reaction but significant nonetheless.

2. The American people are ready to stand up for their piece of the pie. They won't get that from Biden or the establishment Dem party to their liking and so thie efforts will continue, being backed by a faction within the Dem party that isn't establishment oriented. And then there's Bernie's promise of exactly that which the American people really and truly desire. Bernie has promised to make a big noise if Biden doesn't deliver. Bernie and his agenda of social reform could become more powerful than the president and his title. He could force Biden to become a socially responsible president.

Those are the reasons why America might be saved and a bright future is on the horizon.

Biden has already demonstrated socisal responsibility. Trump has not. Next question?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 09, 2020, 07:13:22 pm
Is it dumber than a live televised medical exam of the president ?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-will-undergo-televised-medical-evaluation-on-friday-night-fox-news-announces

 ??? ??? ???

I'm thinking this is fake...

Not fake...  Trump thinks this is a great idea...

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-medical-test-fox-news-doctor-tucker-carlson-2020-10?amp

Should make for riveting TV!!

(https://studyprofpics.s3.amazonaws.com/rectal-exam-1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 10, 2020, 12:06:28 am
I wonder how many deaths will result from tomorrows get together. Of course I hope none. I wonder how many of the 2k will wear masks.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 10, 2020, 02:42:15 am
Quote
Pelosi is trying to use their 25th. amendment to remove Trump from office because of him being umfit mentally. It's a ploy being used for the purpose of the election, even though it would be quite legitimate.
Seems like a dumb move, imo.  Even if it were successful, all the republicans who've had enough of Trump would probably have no problem supporting Pence.
In my opinion, its hard to say whether it is a good or bad move.

(At this point, i don't think they are actually suggesting he be removed immediately, only that they set up a committee to examine whether Trump is incapacitated.)

There are a couple of good things that could result from this;

- If (after everything is said and done) a committee is set up, trump is deemed incompetent, and removed, and Pence becomes president: it removes an immediate threat to democracy and stability. (Even though Pence lacks integrity, he isn't as unhinged as Trump. Plus, he doesn't have the same con-artist/charisma that Trump does. And any republicans who went along with it would be targeted by the MAGAchuds, which would see the republican party divided and attacking itself. (I think the chance of this happening is extremely remote however, because of republican tribalism)

- If they fail to remove Trump (the most likely scenario), at least they have kept attention focused on Trump's rather unhinged behavior (instead of whatever attacks he is making against the democrats). Plus, it helps re-enforce to voters that the republican party is a bunch of Trump boot-lickers (at least the ones that would block the actions to have Trump removed, which would probably be all of them.)
Quote
And if it doesn't work, just another reason for people who think Trump has had a raw deal from Democrats will just double down on their support, even if they were wavering.
That is a possibility. But my assumption is that anyone who is dumb enough to think Trump has had a 'raw deal' is probably a MAGAchud who was going to vote for Trump anyways.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 10, 2020, 11:03:38 am
I wonder how many deaths will result from tomorrows get together. Of course I hope none. I wonder how many of the 2k will wear masks.

about that planned TrumpMAGA rally Monday in Florida:

(https://i.imgur.com/qQe1fLx.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 10, 2020, 11:06:14 am
Biden has already demonstrated socisal responsibility. Trump has not. Next question?

No doubt Biden is a better choice but he won't be the 'fix' that's needed for America. So even if Trump is defeated and eliminated, their country won't change much for the long-suffering people. And then why would anybody think that the rabid right element will stop their mission to kill black people.

Biden represents the establishment American way and anybody who listens to him should know. But the positive side of a Biden win is in Bernie working from within the party to change it to become a socially responsible party for the people.

Biden's popularity is not huge and if it was then Trump's support should be much lower than it still is.

Do we as Canadians really care? The negatives of Trump are mostly in their domestic policy. Trump could prove to be better for Canada because he won't honour any promises to his people when trade relations and profiting for the very wealthy class are his real priorities. He would be better for Canada than Biden and almost certainly better for China.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 10, 2020, 11:10:21 am
No doubt Biden is a better choice but he won't be the 'fix' that's needed for America. So even if Trump is defeated and eliminated, their country won't change much for the long-suffering people. And then why would anybody think that the rabid right element will stop their mission to kill black people.

Biden represents the establishment American way and anybody who listens to him should know. But the positive side of a Biden win is in Bernie working from within the party to change it to become a socially responsible party for the people.

Biden's popularity is not huge and if it was then Trump's support should be much lower than it still is.

Do we as Canadians really care? The negatives of Trump are mostly in their domestic policy. Trump could prove to be better for Canada because he won't honour any promises to his people when trade relations and profiting for the very wealthy class are his real priorities. He would be better for Canada than Biden and almost certainly better for China.

The disclaimer confirmation can work to protect him from being responsible in that event but it can't protect him for the infections he's already been responsible for. For that reason it can be seen as an admission of guilt as well as an acknowledgment of the danger.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 10, 2020, 11:06:59 pm
No doubt Biden is a better choice but he won't be the 'fix' that's needed for America.
while Biden isn't exactly a far left progressive candidate, he's not a "republican in democrat clothing" either. He does have plans o make the wealthy pay more in taxes. he does have plans to address climate change. He does have plans to provide health care to more Americans.
Quote
Biden represents the establishment American way and anybody who listens to him should know. But the positive side of a Biden win is in Bernie working from within the party to change it to become a socially responsible party for the people.
I guess the question is, will Sanders actually stick around the Democratic party this time. Remember, he's been sitting as an independent senator for years, and only becomes a Democrat when he wants to hijack the party for his own purposes. (Hmmmm... I wonder if he ever thought that if he actually, you know, BECAME a democrat, he might have had enough support within the party to win the primaries, rather than saying "boo! Hiss! You're evil! Now support me while I run for president".
Quote
Do we as Canadians really care? The negatives of Trump are mostly in their domestic policy. Trump could prove to be better for Canada because he won't honour any promises to his people when trade relations and profiting for the very wealthy class are his real priorities. He would be better for Canada than Biden and almost certainly better for China.
Ummm... no he wouldn't.

Trump has given us a trade war, with tariffs slapped on things like steel and aluminium (even after we signed our free trade deal). One of his closet advisors has made some pretty stupid comments that have affected Canada/US relations.

Then there are also the policies and actions that Trump has that aren't directly related to Canada, but will harm us regardless... his covid response will mean that the disease will continue to affect the world for much longer than it should (which affects Canada, since we share so much trade as well as a common border). His environmental policies (e.g. global warming denial) will impact all countries in the world, since carbon dioxide does not stop a the American borders. And his financial incompetence risks damaging the American economy, which will end up dragging the whole global economy down with it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 11, 2020, 11:38:34 am
while Biden isn't exactly a far left progressive candidate, he's not a "republican in democrat clothing" either. He does have plans o make the wealthy pay more in taxes. he does have plans to address climate change. He does have plans to provide health care to more Americans.I guess the question is, will Sanders actually stick around the Democratic party this time. Remember, he's been sitting as an independent senator for years, and only becomes a Democrat when he wants to hijack the party for his own purposes. (Hmmmm... I wonder if he ever thought that if he actually, you know, BECAME a democrat, he might have had enough support within the party to win the primaries, rather than saying "boo! Hiss! You're evil! Now support me while I run for president". Ummm... no he wouldn't.

On any and all issues Biden will do what he needs to do to stay popular. If addresing AGW is important to Americans then Biden will respons accordingly. If it doesn't become important then he won't.

A decent health care plan for all Americans is far off on the horizon because the popular demand overall is lacking.

Trump has given us a trade war, with tariffs slapped on things like steel and aluminium (even after we signed our free trade deal). One of his closet advisors has made some pretty stupid comments that have affected Canada/US relations. [/quote]

Everything Trump does on foreign relations are only for his own re-election interests. If he's elected he will be a different person altogether.

Quote
Then there are also the policies and actions that Trump has that aren't directly related to Canada, but will harm us regardless... his covid response will mean that the disease will continue to affect the world for much longer than it should (which affects Canada, since we share so much trade as well as a common border). His environmental policies (e.g. global warming denial) will impact all countries in the world, since carbon dioxide does not stop a the American borders. And his financial incompetence risks damaging the American economy, which will end up dragging the whole global economy down with it.

Trump knows he's lost the battle on Covid but he has to continue his stance until he's elected. After that he would come around to being mainstream sane on Covid. Trump wants to be on the right side of the debate on Covid.

As to Biden? You need to understand that bringing about social change for the people requires a break from the establishment American way. I see no indication that Biden could be the one to upset that apple cart. There's too much big money involved for him and more obviously the Democrat senators and House members. The only glimmer of hope for a breakout for America is in Bernie. But Bernie could do enough convincing of the people so that the Dems and the people come to demand Biden make the necessary changes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 11, 2020, 04:39:43 pm
Quote from: President Donald J. Trump
I passed the highest test, the highest standards, & I'm in great shape. And I have to tell you, I feel fantastically ... I even feel good by the fact that the word 'immunity' means something. Having really a protective glow means something. I think it's very important (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1315300925263818752/pu/vid/1280x720/qicRn9wZSm8ZKKir.mp4?tag=10)

(https://data.whicdn.com/images/126132680/original.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 12, 2020, 02:58:53 am
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while Biden isn't exactly a far left progressive candidate, he's not a "republican in democrat clothing" either. He does have plans o make the wealthy pay more in taxes. he does have plans to address climate change. He does have plans to provide health care to more Americans.I guess the question is, will Sanders actually stick around the Democratic party this time. Remember, he's been sitting as an independent senator for years, and only becomes a Democrat when he wants to hijack the party for his own purposes. (Hmmmm... I wonder if he ever thought that if he actually, you know, BECAME a democrat, he might have had enough support within the party to win the primaries, rather than saying "boo! Hiss! You're evil! Now support me while I run for president". Ummm... no he wouldn't.
On any and all issues Biden will do what he needs to do to stay popular.
Biden is a moderate democrat. That means he is on the political left, but not on the fringes. That doesn't necessarily mean he says things ONLY because they are popular. It could just mean he has selected policies that a lot of people believe in.

You don't have to be a radical to be committed to your policies.
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If addresing AGW is important to Americans then Biden will respons accordingly. If it doesn't become important then he won't.
Actually Biden has actually been fighting for action on global warming as far back as the 1980s, bringing in one of the first bills in congress to address climate changes. And this was done long before Global warming was considered a significant issue in the political landscape.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/may/08/joe-biden/was-joe-biden-climate-change-pioneer-congress-hist/
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Trump has given us a trade war, with tariffs slapped on things like steel and aluminium (even after we signed our free trade deal). One of his closet advisors has made some pretty stupid comments that have affected Canada/US relations.
Everything Trump does on foreign relations are only for his own re-election interests.
Why are you assuming that?

We know multiple things about Trump: That he is a narcissist (being unwilling to admit any sort of failure or mistake, even if doing so would benefit him), that is an incompetent moron who doesn't understand economics or foreign policy (the man has a string of business failures, including multiple casinos, where the business model is as simple as "customers come in, give money, and leave") and that in the rare occasions where he actually listens to the advice of others, the people he listens to are themselves either corrupt or incompetent. His decisions on trade or foreign policy are more likely to be due to those factors than they are by some sort of political calculation.

Slapping tariffs on aluminium from Canada did not benefit him politically. (I doubt many of his supporters were even aware of them.) In fact, they probably hurt his political situation (given retaliatory tariffs and the general economic harm of trade barriers.) 
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If he's elected he will be a different person altogether.
We heard exactly the same thing in 2016. "Sure Trump is crude/brash when campaigning, but once elected he will pivot and become presidential'. But instead of getting "Trump the statesman" the U.S. got "Trump the clown". Why expect that it will somehow be different if he is re-elected in 2020?

Rather than him saying "Now the pressure for re-election is over, I can adopt different policies (such as reversing tariffs), his narcissism will make it impossible for him to change his policies (since that would imply he did something wrong in the first place) and he is more likely to double down, leaving the tariffs in place (possibly even increasing them) because eliminating them would suggest he made a mistake in imposing them in the first place.
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Then there are also the policies and actions that Trump has that aren't directly related to Canada, but will harm us regardless... his covid response will mean that the disease will continue to affect the world for much longer than it should (which affects Canada, since we share so much trade as well as a common border). His environmental policies (e.g. global warming denial) will impact all countries in the world, since carbon dioxide does not stop a the American borders. And his financial incompetence risks damaging the American economy, which will end up dragging the whole global economy down with it.
Trump knows he's lost the battle on Covid but he has to continue his stance until he's elected. After that he would come around to being mainstream sane on Covid. Trump wants to be on the right side of the debate on Covid.
It was Trump's incompetence that has left America with such a high casualty rate in the first place. Why exactly do you assume that after re-election, he will magically become competent?

Time and time again, we have seen Trump do things which not only harm America's response to Covid-19, but also harm himself politically.
Frankly, the suggestion that Trump is doing what he does for political reasons is giving him far too much credit. He is just not that smart.
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As to Biden? You need to understand that bringing about social change for the people requires a break from the establishment American way. I see no indication that Biden could be the one to upset that apple cart.
The assumption of course is that the only way to bring about change is to "upset the apple cart". I personally think that's the wrong attitude to take. Positive change can also come about through gradual directed change. The U.S. didn't need riots in the streets to make people more accepting of gay marriage, or legalization of marijuana.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 12, 2020, 03:25:27 am
Trump has demonstrated so many times so far that he is nothing more than a lying, narcissist, racist with extremely poor business skills that he really ought not to be sitting in the WH. Will Americans wake up, or not? Currently I'm so glad not to be one.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 12, 2020, 12:55:28 pm

Biden is a moderate democrat. That means he is on the political left, but not on the fringes. That doesn't necessarily mean he says things ONLY because they are popular. It could just mean he has selected policies that a lot of people believe in.

We disagree on that to begin with. I maintain that Biden is totally US establishment and that is not leftist by definition in any country except the US. Please try to at least understand this as being my position, because it's important. And I'm not saying you have to agree.


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You don't have to be a radical to be committed to your policies.Actually Biden has actually been fighting for action on global warming as far back as the 1980s, bringing in one of the first bills in congress to address climate changes. And this was done long before Global warming was considered a significant issue in the political landscape.

I won't dispute that but I would suggest that the US is a renegade country with it's lack of support on climate change and the politics of the people will dictate to Biden. The US establishment status quo doesn't support sociallly responsible government.

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https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/may/08/joe-biden/was-joe-biden-climate-change-pioneer-congress-hist/Everything Trump does on foreign relations are only for his own re-election interests.
Why are you assuming that?

I assume that because I know of nothing that can't be categorized as being that. Refute with examples if you have an interest in the argument.

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We know multiple things about Trump: That he is a narcissist (being unwilling to admit any sort of failure or mistake, even if doing so would benefit him), that is an incompetent moron who doesn't understand economics or foreign policy (the man has a string of business failures, including multiple casinos, where the business model is as simple as "customers come in, give money, and leave") and that in the rare occasions where he actually listens to the advice of others, the people he listens to are themselves either corrupt or incompetent. His decisions on trade or foreign policy are more likely to be due to those factors than they are by some sort of political calculation.

I would agree that's correct. But I think you miss my point in that Trump is clever enough to tell lies for political gain during the run-up to the election, then do something different. Specifically, demonize China on the virus, trade relations, and other issues because his base is motivated by hating outsiders and now especially the Chinese. But that attitude and position is not in sync with the US overall agenda of big business that's only concerned with more profits. In fact, none of Trump's base of ordinary people are in sync with what must become Trump's priorities. He's simply a corporate psychopath who is lying to the ignorant little people.

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Slapping tariffs on aluminium from Canada did not benefit him politically. (I doubt many of his supporters were even aware of them.) In fact, they probably hurt his political situation (given retaliatory tariffs and the general economic harm of trade barriers.)  We heard exactly the same thing in 2016. "Sure Trump is crude/brash when campaigning, but once elected he will pivot and become presidential'. But instead of getting "Trump the statesman" the U.S. got "Trump the clown". Why expect that it will somehow be different if he is re-elected in 2020?

I would suggest that retaliatory tariffs were beyond the capability of Trump's base to comprehend. Trump gets benefit out of any move against any country, due to the kneejerk mentality of his base. You should watch an hour of one of his rallies to see just what he's doing!

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Rather than him saying "Now the pressure for re-election is over, I can adopt different policies (such as reversing tariffs), his narcissism will make it impossible for him to change his policies (since that would imply he did something wrong in the first place) and he is more likely to double down, leaving the tariffs in place (possibly even increasing them) because eliminating them would suggest he made a mistake in imposing them in the first place.

Consider that what you said there. Trump changing policies is not inconsistent with his narcissism. It's not admitting that he made mistakes. But you are right about a narcissist not  being able to admit to mistakes. And so Trump has reversed many of his stupid positions while never admitting to a mistake. His base happily allows him to do that and never bring those mistakes up to question. He's more than just a narcissist in that respect, but he's still consistent with being one.

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It was Trump's incompetence that has left America with such a high casualty rate in the first place. Why exactly do you assume that after re-election, he will magically become competent?

Yes, Trump is responsible for most of the deaths due to Covid! But you've wrongly accused me of saying that Trump will beome competent. What Trump will do is get himself on the side of being right without admitting to any mistakes. His position on downplaying Covid were strictly for his political purposes and those purposes won't demand anything of him after he's elected. And furtheromre, his base will justify everything he's done with some excuse that lets him off the hook. Something perhaps as simple as just claiming that everything he did was for the sake of not scaring or alarming the American people.

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Time and time again, we have seen Trump do things which not only harm America's response to Covid-19, but also harm himself politically.
Frankly, the suggestion that Trump is doing what he does for political reasons is giving him far too much credit. He is just not that smart.The assumption of course is that the only way to bring about change is to "upset the apple cart". I personally think that's the wrong attitude to take. Positive change can also come about through gradual directed change. The U.S. didn't need riots in the streets to make people more accepting of gay marriage, or legalization of marijuana.

We don't disagree on anything concerning Trump's criminal performance that really matters. When I talk about upsetting the apple cart I mean departing for the US establishment American way, status quo. And that's where Biden comes into this conversation.

Biden won't bring about meaningful 'social' change to the US. They were corrupt and broken before Trump and there's no reason to think Biden is a gift from heaven. I really doubt that he will even be able to bring about change in health care that would at least come close to that which is taken for a right by the world's leading capitalist first world countries.

America needs a Bernie but the Dem party rejected Bernie and hijacked his chances twice because that party is afraid that the phony commie, socialist label couldn't be a winner in their country. They may have been right on that but that doesn't mean that what they really do need is a 'Bernie' who is intent on bringing about the social change they lack so desperately.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 13, 2020, 12:39:46 pm
That which must now be of great interest to their FBI/CIA/etc. is how Trump will handle a loss? A psychopath can never accept defeat and so Trump will undoubtedly react in some ways that could compromise US security abroad. For that reason Trump will have to be monitored very closely to prevent him from spilling state secrets as a part of his revenge. How that could be accomplished is an interesting question to consider.

Regardless of all the politics there is no way that Trump isn't seen as a loose cannon in the ship of US state secrets, even taken into consideration that there will be much that has been kept secret from Trump for obvious reasons. Even Pompeo will be completely aware of this possibility of Trump betraying his country and so Pompeo's loyalty to Trump will end immediately with a Trump loss.

The consequences of Trump being monitored closely and how his supporters handle that situation are really quite unimaginable!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 13, 2020, 03:45:17 pm
I'm not an American but I don't hesitate to say that I'm concerned (maybe afraid) as to what happens if Trump loses the election as he continues to claim that if he does it will only be because of vote rigging, and therefore he won't give up the keys to the WH. While on the one hand I would enjoy seeing the Secret Service slap the cuffs on him if it comes to that, I wonder what powers he could try to invoke that might lead to some seriously scary events. His obvious narcissism will likely be the driver.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 13, 2020, 06:03:51 pm
I'm not an American but I don't hesitate to say that I'm concerned (maybe afraid) as to what happens if Trump loses the election as he continues to claim that if he does it will only be because of vote rigging, and therefore he won't give up the keys to the WH. While on the one hand I would enjoy seeing the Secret Service slap the cuffs on him if it comes to that, I wonder what powers he could try to invoke that might lead to some seriously scary events. His obvious narcissism will likely be the driver.

I think that if the police threaten to arrest him he will give up the keys. But the wild card now is on whether the police will move against Trump if he'd defeated.

Fascist states are born when the police and military take the side of a defeated candidate in an election. Or by revolution but we can probably safely say that the American people won't rise to that in the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 13, 2020, 09:50:28 pm
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Biden is a moderate democrat. That means he is on the political left, but not on the fringes. That doesn't necessarily mean he says things ONLY because they are popular. It could just mean he has selected policies that a lot of people believe in.
We disagree on that to begin with. I maintain that Biden is totally US establishment and that is not leftist by definition in any country except the US.
An irrelevant point. Where Biden compares to politicians in other countries does not matter, because he is a politician within the American political system.

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You don't have to be a radical to be committed to your policies.Actually Biden has actually been fighting for action on global warming as far back as the 1980s, bringing in one of the first bills in congress to address climate changes. And this was done long before Global warming was considered a significant issue in the political landscape.
I won't dispute that but I would suggest that the US is a renegade country with it's lack of support on climate change and the politics of the people will dictate to Biden.
And once again, AS I PROVIDED EVIDENCE FOR, Biden actually tried to get Congress to address climate change before it was a major political issue.
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Trump does on foreign relations are only for his own re-election interests.
Why are you assuming that?
I assume that because I know of nothing that can't be categorized as being that. Refute with examples if you have an interest in the argument.
I already gave an example... Trump's implication of tariffs that actually end up harming his election chances.

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We know multiple things about Trump: That he is a narcissist (being unwilling to admit any sort of failure or mistake, even if doing so would benefit him), that is an incompetent moron who doesn't understand economics or foreign policy (the man has a string of business failures, including multiple casinos, where the business model is as simple as "customers come in, give money, and leave") and that in the rare occasions where he actually listens to the advice of others, the people he listens to are themselves either corrupt or incompetent. His decisions on trade or foreign policy are more likely to be due to those factors than they are by some sort of political calculation.
I would agree that's correct. But I think you miss my point in that Trump is clever enough to tell lies for political gain during the run-up to the election, then do something different.
Trump is not clever in his lies at all. His lies are, more often than not, blatantly stupid.

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Specifically, demonize China on the virus, trade relations, and other issues because his base is motivated by hating outsiders and now especially the Chinese. But that attitude and position is not in sync with the US overall agenda of big business that's only concerned with more profits. In fact, none of Trump's base of ordinary people are in sync with what must become Trump's priorities. He's simply a corporate psychopath who is lying to the ignorant little people.
While Trump may want to suck up to big business, he is a moron and, frankly, is more likely to harm business than he is to help it.

There is a reason why Goldman Sachs has predicted that the economy will recover faster if the Democrats take both the white house and congress than if Trump wins.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/business/economy-election-blue-wave-goldman-sachs/index.html
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I would suggest that retaliatory tariffs were beyond the capability of Trump's base to comprehend.
It doesn't matter if his base is too stupid to understand the concept of retaliatory tariffs. But what they can comprehend is that, if you are a farmer or manufacturer who can no longer sell to Canada because of trade barriers enacted due to a Trump-inspired trade war, you will not be happy, and be less likely to support Trump.
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Trump gets benefit out of any move against any country, due to the kneejerk mentality of his base. You should watch an hour of one of his rallies to see just what he's doing!
That his base of MAGAchuds are a bunch of brain-damaged xenophobic morons who bask in stupidity is not in doubt. My point was his latest round of aluminium tariffs is not an election issue.... he's not using it to whip up his base... its just a dumb thing he did and probably forgot about.

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Yes, Trump is responsible for most of the deaths due to Covid! But you've wrongly accused me of saying that Trump will beome competent. What Trump will do is get himself on the side of being right without admitting to any mistakes.
Ummm.... not sure if you understand this... but if you think trump will "get himself on the side of being right", then that DOES suggest that you think he will become competent.

Trump is simply too dumb, too incompetent to know what the "right side" is.
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His position on downplaying Covid were strictly for his political purposes and those purposes won't demand anything of him after he's elected.
Uhhhh.... no.

Many of his screw-ups had nothing to do with his political position. Removing embedded CDC scientists from China (who could have helped provide a warning) did not provide political benefit. Disbanding the group that would have coordinated the pandemic response did not provide political benefit. Giving the task of obtaining necessary equipment to his son-in-law did not provide political benefit.

Yet he did all of them.
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And furtheromre, his base will justify everything he's done with some excuse that lets him off the hook. Something perhaps as simple as just claiming that everything he did was for the sake of not scaring or alarming the American people.
The fact that his base is gullible enough to accept his excuses does not mean that his initial actions were done strictly for political purposes. He is incompetent, he screws up, that will not change post-election.
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Biden won't bring about meaningful 'social' change to the US.
Under Obama (who certainly wasn't a "far left" radical) we saw liberalization of drug laws, expansion of gay rights, implementation of financial regulations to protect consumers, worked to increase solar and wind power usage, and the appointment of 2 judges to the supreme court. All positive changes in the right direction.

I see no reason to suspect Biden would not follow the same path.

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They were corrupt and broken before Trump and there's no reason to think Biden is a gift from heaven.
He doesn't have to be a "gift from heaven". He just has to be a decent politician who 1) has a good chance at defeating Trump (which he certainly seems to have) and 2) a set of policies that will have a positive impact (which he appears to have).

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I really doubt that he will even be able to bring about change in health care that would at least come close to that which is taken for a right by the world's leading capitalist first world countries.
And do you think Sanders would do any better?

For better or worse, the majority of Americans prefer a system that covers pretty much everyone, but provides private options. i.e. Sanders' plan is, simply, not popular (at least once people look at its details). Do you think any sort of radical health care reform would get through?

Better chance at a Biden plan being accepted than a Sanders' plan.
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America needs a Bernie
No, actually they don't.

What the U.S. needs is a good 2-3 terms where moderate left-of-center Democrats control the white house and congress. Enough time to make significant positive changes. And the fact is, moderation wins elections. A radical left wing politician like Sanders would likely 1) not be very effective (since even moderates would shy away from his reforms), and 2) probably not last long in office (since, as I pointed out, moderation wins elections).

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but the Dem party rejected Bernie and hijacked his chances twice because that party is afraid that the phony commie, socialist label couldn't be a winner in their country.
They didn't "Hijack" anything. Sanders had no expectation of electoral success. Far from it... he was an outsider who wasn't even a democrat until he decided to run for President. The 'Dems' simply said "this is not the politician and set of policies that we want to present".

If you are going to spend all your time sniping at the Democrats from the outside, don't be surprised if those same Democrats chose not to follow you into battle.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 14, 2020, 12:10:26 am
Let's just hope that the American voter will do what Covid so far has failed to do.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 14, 2020, 12:21:08 pm
We disagree on that to begin with. I maintain that Biden is totally US establishment and that is not leftist by definition in any country except the US.

An irrelevant point. Where Biden compares to politicians in other countries does not matter, because he is a politician within the American political system.


None of your points strike me as significant enough to debate further with you. But you should know that I'm a Canadian and I don't favour either of their candidates.

Overall, the point you seem to be missing is that the US has fallen far behind the world's leading Capitalist countries and Biden doesn't represent enough significant change to fix their problems. There system is irreparably corrupted by big money and Biden is far from immune from caving to that.

They need a new Bernie, unless Bernie can work from the inside to inspire the people to force Biden to do what's needed. It's a longshot but amazingly at least possible.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 14, 2020, 01:40:13 pm
danceOff! 1992 EpsteinTrump versus 2020 ImmuneTrump (https://i.imgur.com/wm8jkQA.mp4)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 14, 2020, 02:11:54 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/5tvwbXA.png)

Georgia.... Georgia...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 15, 2020, 01:52:48 pm
danceOff! 1992 EpsteinTrump versus 2020 ImmuneTrump (https://i.imgur.com/wm8jkQA.mp4)

How can any October surprise be used to hurt Biden's chances when compared to the fact that Trump was friends with a **** and likely was also guilty of pedophilia along with his friend?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 16, 2020, 12:09:55 am
Trump suggests Biden may be suffering from dementia, while he himself can't seem to remember his last Covid test. He was a deer in the headlights a time or two today when he stepped outside of FAX bullshit news for an interview. Bet he doesn't try that again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 16, 2020, 12:16:20 pm
Trump suggests Biden may be suffering from dementia, while he himself can't seem to remember his last Covid test. He was a deer in the headlights a time or two today when he stepped outside of FAX bullshit news for an interview. Bet he doesn't try that again.

I think Trump demonstrated his limited ability to debate in the first one. I'm surprised he wants to try again. Possibly against the advice of his handlers and motivated more by his vanity?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 16, 2020, 12:40:14 pm
I think Trump demonstrated his limited ability to debate in the first one. I'm surprised he wants to try again. Possibly against the advice of his handlers and motivated more by his vanity?

He is losing badly....   what else could he do, other than to try and score some sort of knockout blow in debates?  That’s why he would want to debate.  It’s his only chance.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 16, 2020, 02:53:08 pm
He is losing badly....   what else could he do, other than to try and score some sort of knockout blow in debates?  That’s why he would want to debate.  It’s his only chance.

Their entire election is a wild card. Just imagine what's being done in California with the GOP's illegal ballot boxes! I wonder if any of those boneheads understand what this is doing to the rule of law?

Will the Dems now build a bunch of their own Dem controlled ballot boxes and then why not stuff them full of thousands of ballots for their party?

I see a lot of this as a warning to Canada's government to start distancing ourselves from the US.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 16, 2020, 04:37:09 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/7ATVizm.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 16, 2020, 04:43:14 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/7ATVizm.jpg)

I expect the actual photo will appear sometime toward the end of the first week of November.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 18, 2020, 11:34:06 am
at the recent Trumpy town hall, moderator Savannah Guthrie pressed him over his tweeting of conspiracy 'theories'... citing in particular his recent crazy tweet concerning former U.S. President Barack Obama, VP Joe Biden, and Navy SEALs all conspiring to fake the death of Bin Laden. Trump responds: "I know nothing about it. That was a retweet. That was an opinion from somebody. I’ll put it out there — people can decide".

Quote from: town hall moderator Savannah Guthrie
I don’t get that. You’re the president. You’re not like someone’s crazy uncle who can just retweet whatever


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcTawZ6P8mY
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 18, 2020, 12:31:26 pm
at the recent Trumpy town hall, moderator Savannah Guthrie pressed him over his tweeting of conspiracy 'theories'... citing in particular his recent crazy tweet concerning former U.S. President Barack Obama, VP Joe Biden, and Navy SEALs all conspiring to fake the death of Bin Laden. Trump responds: "I know nothing about it. That was a retweet. That was an opinion from somebody. I’ll put it out there — people can decide".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcTawZ6P8mY

Waldo, what's your opinion on Trump remaining as president, as it will apply to Canada?  We know all his negatives and how he's destroying that country but is he necessarily bad for Canada? I tend to try to separate all the election rhetoric from the way he will actually play his part as president, bearing in mind that he will most likely be reduced to a loud mouth figurehead on the foreign policy scene.

Biden, the alternative strikes me as pretty weak kneed on determination and thus could pose a real danger on US foreign policy. Especiallly on Russia after all the hate rhetoric that's being spewed by the Dems and their media.

I see great danger ahead as the US has now come to a crossroads as it pertains to world power. The next 4 years will mean so much for China's attempt to overtake the US and the US isn't going to forfeit it's position as the world's economic leader easily.

There's little doubt that the antiwar faction in the US is siding with Trump, if that's any indication. I check out antiwar.com every day to see the current handling of US foreign policy threats, because it's useful information.

As to the US military threat to the world, I think we're still relatively safe because of the M.A.D. factor that is still respected by the US. There will be small skirmishes as usual but keeping those to a minimum may be more possible under a Trump regime?

As to my own opinion, I'm pretty close to neutral because of the damage Trump can do to US domestic policy. That has the ability to keep them involved trying to hold their country together while China is left less impeded by US foreign policy.

China's and Russia's rise is going to make for a very risky 4 or more years and so will the choice of a president be a major factor?

I should also just add that I believe Iran, Venezuela, Syria, and others are safe now from allout US invasion and war, due to Russia's and China's world interests the US must now respect.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 19, 2020, 12:42:34 am
I can't... won't give consideration to Trump actually winning another term; current electoral college projections suggest Trump just can't reach the magic number!

of course the key will be if the Democratic Party can gain control of the Senate (retaining the House seems a lock). Biden plays up his ability to work with Republicans but I can't see that country divide coming together until the Senate 'flips'. At that point Democrats can begin to undo much of the nonsense Trump "accomplished" - both domestic and international, particularly taking on global authoritarianism, re-joining the Paris Accord, joining CPTPP, smoothing relations with allies/NATO, etc.. Biden has already hinted at such moves but is being somewhat reserved... for now. As always, there's a continued/increased theme for more Canadian diversification away from such a heavy reliance on trade with the U.S. - but I see a Biden admin working to strengthen trade/military ties with Canada even further... which will be a part of the broader thrusts against China that should be seen through the influence of the U.S. back in the (CP)TPP fold. I can see one of the first actions Biden might take is to re-join the nuclear treaty with Europe/Iran. Speculation abounds and until we begin to see just where Biden goes, it's almost an exercise in 'wishful' thinking.

hey now! That antiwar.com site brought back some real memories... it's been many years since I've followed it; but I always relied upon it to provide status & death/injury counts for military and civilians in Iraq/Afghanistan.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on October 19, 2020, 09:09:49 am
I can't... won't give consideration to Trump actually winning another term; current electoral college projections suggest Trump just can't reach the magic number!

of course the key will be if the Democratic Party can gain control of the Senate (retaining the House seems a lock).

Based on polling, sure it looks like Biden has this locked up.

But what of voter suppression?

Biden should win Arizona, Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. That'll lock him up the the vote. He can lose one of those (maybe) and still get 270.

Then he's in play for Texas, Georgia, North Carolina, Florida, Iowa and Ohio. He steals any of those states from Trump then Trump needs to sweep the rest of the battleground states.

So the numbers are good. But you can't convince MAGAHeads that the polls aren't wrong. And what if any votes counted after Election Day are contested in the, soon-to-be, 6-3 SCOTUS?

Turnout is key, and with Voter Suppression tactics, who knows if all the votes even get counted on election day. I'm hopeful too, but nothing is certain.

As for the Senate. It's tough.  The Dems should steal Arizona, Colorado and Main from the GOP. But will the GOP steal Alabama back?

That leaves tight races in Montana, Iowa, North Carolina, Georgia for the Dems to try and win. Also, Lindsey Graham in South Carolina is in big trouble. Those are all "Red States" that the Dems have to break through. It's tough.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 19, 2020, 10:09:46 am
Based on polling, sure it looks like Biden has this locked up.

But what of voter suppression?

Biden should win Arizona, Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. That'll lock him up the the vote. He can lose one of those (maybe) and still get 270.

Then he's in play for Texas, Georgia, North Carolina, Florida, Iowa and Ohio. He steals any of those states from Trump then Trump needs to sweep the rest of the battleground states.

So the numbers are good. But you can't convince MAGAHeads that the polls aren't wrong. And what if any votes counted after Election Day are contested in the, soon-to-be, 6-3 SCOTUS?

Turnout is key, and with Voter Suppression tactics, who knows if all the votes even get counted on election day. I'm hopeful too, but nothing is certain.

As for the Senate. It's tough.  The Dems should steal Arizona, Colorado and Main from the GOP. But will the GOP steal Alabama back?

That leaves tight races in Montana, Iowa, North Carolina, Georgia for the Dems to try and win. Also, Lindsey Graham in South Carolina is in big trouble. Those are all "Red States" that the Dems have to break through. It's tough.

I agree with all of this.  But it does feel different from last time.  In 2016 at this point the Democrats were scheduling last-minute events in Michigan and Minnesota because they realized they had a problem. This time the Republicans have pulled their advertising buys out of battleground states to focus on trying to hang on to Florida and Georgia and Ohio.  Last time the October surprise was an FBI investigation, this time it's a dud.

Regarding the Senate... the latest data from 538 is showing Democrats with a strong chance to gain control of the Senate. Arizona, Maine, Colorado, North Carolina, and possibly Iowa may flip to the Democrats, while only Alabama will flip to the Republicans. So it appears most likely that the Democrats will have 50 or 51 senate seats, and with the Vice President having a tie-breaking vote, that would be enough.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 19, 2020, 12:08:24 pm
I can't... won't give consideration to Trump actually winning another term; current electoral college projections suggest Trump just can't reach the magic number!

of course the key will be if the Democratic Party can gain control of the Senate (retaining the House seems a lock). Biden plays up his ability to work with Republicans but I can't see that country divide coming together until the Senate 'flips'. At that point Democrats can begin to undo much of the nonsense Trump "accomplished" - both domestic and international, particularly taking on global authoritarianism, re-joining the Paris Accord, joining CPTPP, smoothing relations with allies/NATO, etc.. Biden has already hinted at such moves but is being somewhat reserved... for now. As always, there's a continued/increased theme for more Canadian diversification away from such a heavy reliance on trade with the U.S. - but I see a Biden admin working to strengthen trade/military ties with Canada even further... which will be a part of the broader thrusts against China that should be seen through the influence of the U.S. back in the (CP)TPP fold. I can see one of the first actions Biden might take is to re-join the nuclear treaty with Europe/Iran. Speculation abounds and until we begin to see just where Biden goes, it's almost an exercise in 'wishful' thinking.

hey now! That antiwar.com site brought back some real memories... it's been many years since I've followed it; but I always relied upon it to provide status & death/injury counts for military and civilians in Iraq/Afghanistan.

I just can't see how China would prefer Biden over Trump, if all the election  politics are discounted.

The nuclear treaty with Iran would definitely be a step forward for world peace but I sense it's been made so unpopular by US propagandists that Biden can't mention it. I also have to question whether he could possibly do it, against the prowar rhetoric in the US.

Yes, antiwar.com is telling in that they have always been more right leaning than antiwar and that hasn't changed with Trump. I find no antiwar value in that site now but still find it useful as a barometer of US foreign policy. Especially as that relates to Russia and China to a lesser extent.

On US domestic policy, I see no real change coming about with the election of Biden. Their lack of socially responsible capitalism is far deeper than just Trump. The US is hiding the truths  about the poverty of the ordinary people and the people are brainwashed into accepting being ripped off.

If that can change within the US then maybe there will be a chance of improved US foreign policy and less US led wars. About 40 US wars of aggression since WW2 speaks pretty loudly against the threat of Russia is coming, Russia is coming.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 19, 2020, 03:01:32 pm
Trump calls the media criminals

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1318267225745346562

"Good luck everybody, have a good time !"

 ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 19, 2020, 03:06:58 pm
Trump calls the media criminals

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1318267225745346562

"Good luck everybody, have a good time !"

 ;D

I think we mostly all know who is the criminal, which probably has something to do with trump planning to leave the country if he loses. Perhaps his legal staff advised him he cannot pardon himself.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 19, 2020, 03:19:25 pm
I think we mostly all know who is the criminal, which probably has something to do with trump planning to leave the country if he loses. Perhaps his legal staff advised him he cannot pardon himself.

Hmmm, not to promote a conspiracy theory but, A president in exile?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 19, 2020, 03:25:46 pm
Hmmm, not to promote a conspiracy theory but, A president in exile?

More like an X president in EXile. I'm sure Putin will be able to find a room for him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 19, 2020, 05:11:53 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/JwKbAQ6.png)

Hokum’s Razor: when given two potential explanations, the one that factors in the Trumps being shameless liars is the most likely one.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 19, 2020, 05:25:46 pm
reporter asks Trumpy about his calling Biden a criminal (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1318263475592957952/pu/vid/1280x720/FCom1-eVZNpsE6v7.mp4?tag=10)... replies to reporter: You're a criminal for not reporting it. You are a criminal for not reporting it {for not reporting on Hunter Biden's emails}
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 19, 2020, 05:42:38 pm
I think we mostly all know who is the criminal, which probably has something to do with trump planning to leave the country if he loses. Perhaps his legal staff advised him he cannot pardon himself.

Trumpy foreshadowing a move (https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1317548520761589763/vid/1280x720/M90GyV667UfGW22B.mp4?tag=13)  ;D


The legal reckoning awaiting Donald Trump if he loses the election (https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/17/politics/trump-election-legal-reckoning/index.html)

Quote
Without some of the protections afforded him by the presidency, Trump will become vulnerable to multiple investigations looking into possible fraud in his financial business dealings as a private citizen -- both as an individual and through his company. He faces defamation lawsuits sparked by his denials of accusations made by women who have alleged he assaulted them, including E. Jean Carroll, the former magazine columnist who has accused him of ****. And then there are claims he corrupted the presidency for his personal profits.

As President, Trump has been able to block and delay several of these investigations and lawsuits -- including a yearlong fight over a subpoena for his tax returns -- in part because of his official position. Many of those matters have wound through the courts and will come to a head whether he is reelected or not.

Quote
Some lawyers have speculated that it's possible Trump would attempt to pardon himself from federal crimes before he leaves office.

The decision of whether to revive those investigations would fall to a Biden administration and top law enforcement officials leading the Justice Department and Manhattan US attorney's office.

In testimony before Congress, Mueller was asked by Republican Rep. Ken Buck of Colorado, "Could you charge the President with a crime after he left office?"

"Yes," Mueller replied.

"You believe that he committed -- you could charge the President of the United States with obstruction of justice after he left office?" Buck asked.

Mueller answered: "Yes."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 19, 2020, 05:51:38 pm
reporter asks Trumpy about his calling Biden a criminal (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1318263475592957952/pu/vid/1280x720/FCom1-eVZNpsE6v7.mp4?tag=10)... replies to reporter: You're a criminal for not reporting it. You are a criminal for not reporting it {for not reporting on Hunter Biden's emails}

Already posted prev page but... wow.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 19, 2020, 07:14:04 pm
NBC: Say, you know who turned out to be right about forest fires?  Donald Trump.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/decades-mismanagement-led-choked-forests-now-it-s-time-clear-n1243599?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

Better late than never!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 19, 2020, 07:25:57 pm
NBC: Say, you know who turned out to be right about forest fires?  Donald Trump.

I won't click it, will just assume he won one today.  This will mean some votes in CA.  He could go from 33.6% to 34% or 35%.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 19, 2020, 07:33:05 pm
NBC: Say, you know who turned out to be right about forest fires?  Donald Trump.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/decades-mismanagement-led-choked-forests-now-it-s-time-clear-n1243599?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

Better late than never!

Shady now believes in climate change.  Progress of a sort.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 19, 2020, 07:35:32 pm
I won't click it, will just assume he won one today.  This will mean some votes in CA.  He could go from 33.6% to 34% or 35%.
I don’t think you need to worry about him winning California.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 19, 2020, 07:51:23 pm
I don’t think you need to worry about him winning California.

It seems it doesn't matter how often he makes an **** of himself there are those (such as you) who will continue to buy the BS. Let's see, today it was ridiculous criticism, in true trumpy boy fashion, of calling Dr. Faucci  an idiot and some other silly, unwarranted insult. Trump winning anything should worry any and all sane people.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 20, 2020, 05:01:25 am
https://twitter.com/zachheltzel/status/1318008249703038976?s=09
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 20, 2020, 11:30:41 am
(https://i.imgur.com/56FZi7m.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 20, 2020, 11:54:01 am
(https://i.imgur.com/Hdz5Q7R.jpg)


wait, what's this! Bannon is asking his judge for a delay in his scheduled Oct 26th 'status conference'... a delay until Nov 9. Some wags are speculating the requested delay is in lieu of the Trump pardon not having been announced yet!  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 20, 2020, 12:02:15 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/56FZi7m.png)

If we're finished on speculating who will win the presidency waldo, how about a little bet? I'll wager that the popular position will be to not charge Trump with any crimes. Americans consider their presidents to be gods and also the probability of violence by the extreme rightists if charges are pursued.

That doesn't count for civil suits that will inevitably be brought against Trump. Will you bet against my prediction?

Otherwise, the entertainment value of Trump has been so great that it's going to be hard to let it go. The media won't because it's been a source of great profits for more than 4 years and there's nothing to replace it, barring violence and murder by gun on the streets that wouldn't last more than a week or two.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 20, 2020, 12:10:04 pm
NBC: Say, you know who turned out to be right about forest fires?  Donald Trump.https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/decades-mismanagement-led-choked-forests-now-it-s-time-clear-n1243599?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

Better late than never!

notwithstanding Trump's limited view/understanding of so-called forest management is a narrow focus represented by the many times he's talked about gettin' rakes out to clean-up the forest floor!  ;D

wait member Shady, what's this... the federal government owns 57% of the forest land in the state of California. What's Trump been waiting on, hey!

Quote
“You’ve got to take care of the floors. You know the floors of the forests, it’s very important,” Trump said amid the charred ruins of Paradise — his first stop on the tour.

Trump went on to explain that the president of Finland, whom he met on an overseas trip a week earlier, told him about raking the forest floors. “He called it a forest nation,” Trump said, “and they spent a lot of time on raking and cleaning and doing things, and they don’t have any problem.”

Finnish President Sauli Niinisto later disputed this. He told a local newspaper that he had briefed Trump on Finland’s efforts to surveil and care for its forests, The Associated Press wrote, “but said he can’t recall anything being mentioned on raking.”

Raking for leaves and needles is not a normal feature of Finnish fire prevention, according to Rami Ruuska, a forest-fires expert at the Finnish Interior Ministry. Instead, Finns focus on removing dead trees from the forest floor — where possible.

c'mon member Shady, what about Trump threatening to withhold federal funds to California... until Cali buys more rakes! (ok, ok, I kid, I kid). But really, what about prescribed burns - AND the climate change Trump claims is a hoax perpetrated by China... causing the other apparent drought and bark-beetle infestation hoaxes!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 20, 2020, 12:12:32 pm
If we're finished on speculating who will win the presidency waldo, how about a little bet? I'll wager that the popular position will be to not charge Trump with any crimes. Americans consider their presidents to be gods and also the probability of violence by the extreme rightists if charges are pursued.

That doesn't count for civil suits that will inevitably be brought against Trump. Will you bet against my prediction?

moot point! There's a reason for the recent uptick in articles/mentions/speculations on whether or not a sitting president can pardon himself!  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 20, 2020, 12:16:49 pm
Urban Dictionary - Trumpkin: A bitter gourd. Orange on the outside, hollow on the inside, and tossed on the compost pile in early November.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 20, 2020, 12:18:24 pm
moot point! There's a reason for the recent uptick in articles/mentions/speculations on whether or not a sitting president can pardon himself!  ;D

I guess it's possible he could do that but I don't think it's going to be necessary. Don't forget, they're Americans and their outgoing presidents all deserve the flagwaving and the stars and stripes song until it becomes nauseating. All will be forgiven. Except some unpopular lawsuits.

Whatever will we do without the gongshow?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 20, 2020, 12:43:07 pm
moot point! There's a reason for the recent uptick in articles/mentions/speculations on whether or not a sitting president can pardon himself!  ;D

Presidents can only give pardons for federal crimes. If they can get him for violating state statutes, he will be toast.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 20, 2020, 12:49:04 pm
I guess it's possible he could do that but I don't think it's going to be necessary. Don't forget, they're Americans and their outgoing presidents all deserve the flagwaving and the stars and stripes song until it becomes nauseating. All will be forgiven. Except some unpopular lawsuits.

Whatever will we do without the gongshow?

I don't think all the flag waving is going to affect the SCOTUS. At least hopefully. Trump can be investigated/indicted even while still in office. I hope his lawyers have advised him against gunning someone down on 5th Avenue.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/07/10/supreme-court-vance-immunity/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 20, 2020, 12:49:32 pm
Presidents can only give pardons for federal crimes. If they can get him for violating state statutes, he will be toast.

Are there any examples of state crimes wilbur? You must have something in mind if you suggest it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 20, 2020, 12:57:32 pm
I don't think all the flag waving is going to affect the SCOTUS. At least hopefully. Trump can be investigated/indicted even while still in office. I hope his lawyers have advised him against gunning someone down on 5th Avenue.

Granted that Trump is an especially egregious case, but past practice has never varied from 'forgive and forget'. When Nixon dies in 93 it was a time for great sorrow, tears, and the flag flying at half mast. Not a mention of his crimes against humanity or other crimes against the state. I was there in California.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 20, 2020, 01:03:36 pm
Today he bumped up on the fivethirtyeight model, marking the first day he's turned it around since September at least.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 20, 2020, 01:05:50 pm
NBC: Say, you know who turned out to be right about forest fires?  Donald Trump.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/decades-mismanagement-led-choked-forests-now-it-s-time-clear-n1243599?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

Better late than never!
First of all, the idea that you have to have proper forest management is not some big revelation that nobody has ever thought of before.
The problem with Trump is that his only focus is on forest management, and he ignores all other aspects that are relevant in dealing with the California fires, including global warming. (Your article does not address the issue of global warming, and does not disprove that climate change is making the fire problem worse.)

Secondly, remember that Trump suggested "raking the forest floor".... the article you referred to refers to does not suggest that... instead, it suggests things like not putting out fires immediately... something I do not remember Trump ever suggesting doing.

Lastly, Trump has largely blamed California for the fires. But the fact is, the majority of the land that is currently burning in California is controlled by the Federal government. Trump is the incumbent. He has had almost 4 years to address the issue of forest management on federal lands, but has not made any significant efforts to do so.

The fact is, Obama tried to address the issue back when he was president, by trying to separate the issues of fire fighting and forest management, but he was blocked by Republicans in congress.

See: https://www.politico.com/news/agenda/2020/09/15/trump-fires-california-federal-land-415431

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 20, 2020, 01:27:46 pm
Re: Probability of Trump pardoning himself....
Quote
Presidents can only give pardons for federal crimes. If they can get him for violating state statutes, he will be toast.
Are there any examples of state crimes wilbur? You must have something in mind if you suggest it.
Much of Trump's businesses have been based in New York, so that means they would have jurisdiction over much of his criminal activity.

Currently, New York is investigating whether Trump engaged in bank/financial fraud by overstating the value of some of his properties when trying to obtain loans. Similarly he might be guilty of tax fraud by understating the value of those same properties.

From: https://twitter.com/thegregwalters/status/1308156285251092481 (Journalist Greg Walters)
The Manhattan DA just told a court there's grounds to investigate Trump and his business for fraud -- and got very specific about which statutes:
-Scheme to Defraud
-Falsification of Business Records
-Insurance Fraud
-Criminal Tax Fraud



Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 20, 2020, 01:28:25 pm
Are there any examples of state crimes wilbur? You must have something in mind if you suggest it.

I think New York amongst others are after him for several things. Unlike Canada, criminal codes are largely a state jurisdiction.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 20, 2020, 01:31:19 pm
He might drag anything out until he was dead or senile but the kids might not be so lucky.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 20, 2020, 01:42:14 pm
Presidents can only give pardons for federal crimes. If they can get him for violating state statutes, he will be toast.

Unless a governor pardons him.  But NY leans Democrat.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 20, 2020, 01:43:55 pm
If we're finished on speculating who will win the presidency waldo, how about a little bet? I'll wager that the popular position will be to not charge Trump with any crimes. Americans consider their presidents to be gods and also the probability of violence by the extreme rightists if charges are pursued.
It is certainly true that in the one case where charges were most warranted (i.e. Nixon), that no criminal charges were laid. It is certainly possible that the same thing could happen with Stubby McBonespurs. (I could certainly see Biden using the same excuses used with Nixon... "we must heal the nation", etc.) This could either take the form of an actual pardon, or just a desire not to prosecute him

There are a few differences however:
- Nixon's pardon was granted by Ford (a fellow Republican). However, even though Biden is a moderate, he is still a Democrat (as would whomever he nominates to be his AG).
- The political system is much more polarized now than it was in the 70s. Nixon was forced out of office in part by Republicans who said "its time to go". In the current environment, the republican party is falling lock-step behind Trump, regardless of what he does. Its harder for the Democrats to justify extending an olive branch to the republicans in that situation.
- Nixon was a flawed president who engaged in criminal activity. But, he at least did SOME good that even the Democrats might have supported... started the EPA, opened relations with China. And at least he kept his racism a bit more discrete. Trump? Not so much. With his leading chants of "lock her up", calls for racists to "stand by", etc. its hard to have the same sort of sympathy for him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 20, 2020, 02:43:38 pm
It seems it doesn't matter how often he makes an **** of himself there are those (such as you) who will continue to buy the BS. Let's see, today it was ridiculous criticism, in true trumpy boy fashion, of calling Dr. Faucci  an idiot and some other silly, unwarranted insult. Trump winning anything should worry any and all sane people.
Yeah I don’t like his behaviour much either.  Most of the time it’s childish and counter productive.  But Biden’s policies are terrible.  So unfortunately, it’s not much of a choice.  Policy trumps personality.  Pun intended.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 20, 2020, 02:47:36 pm
What about increasing the minimum wage ?  Surely a populists policy would there be one ever !
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 20, 2020, 02:51:02 pm
It is certainly true that in the one case where charges were most warranted (i.e. Nixon), that no criminal charges were laid. It is certainly possible that the same thing could happen with Stubby McBonespurs. (I could certainly see Biden using the same excuses used with Nixon... "we must heal the nation", etc.) This could either take the form of an actual pardon, or just a desire not to prosecute him

There are a few differences however:
- Nixon's pardon was granted by Ford (a fellow Republican). However, even though Biden is a moderate, he is still a Democrat (as would whomever he nominates to be his AG).
- The political system is much more polarized now than it was in the 70s. Nixon was forced out of office in part by Republicans who said "its time to go". In the current environment, the republican party is falling lock-step behind Trump, regardless of what he does. Its harder for the Democrats to justify extending an olive branch to the republicans in that situation.
- Nixon was a flawed president who engaged in criminal activity. But, he at least did SOME good that even the Democrats might have supported... started the EPA, opened relations with China. And at least he kept his racism a bit more discrete. Trump? Not so much. With his leading chants of "lock her up", calls for racists to "stand by", etc. its hard to have the same sort of sympathy for him.

You've made some good points! I'll still wager that Trump will only have to worry about civil suits and those will lack the positive sentiments of the people. It's America!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 20, 2020, 02:54:45 pm
What about increasing the minimum wage ?  Surely a populists policy would there be one ever !

No, it's not consistent with capitalist ideals. But too, disallowing unions with the power to negotiate and strike is not either. So the capitalist can't legitimately claim one without the other.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 20, 2020, 02:56:21 pm
Yeah I don’t like his behaviour much either.  Most of the time it’s childish and counter productive.  But Biden’s policies are terrible.  So unfortunately, it’s not much of a choice.  Policy trumps personality.  Pun intended.
Policy? Like Trump's policy that saw a huge spike in the deficit in order to give tax breaks to millionaires? (And that was before Covid-19 started causing problems.)

Like Trump's big health care plan... no, wait a second, he didn't actually have one. Now of course millions of people in the U.S. lack health care. Oh well, too bad, so sad.

But at least we have Trump's economic record. Except we don't.... because job and employment growth actually slowed under Trump (compared to the way things were going under Obama).

But at least Trump managed to keep the coal miners employed. Except he didn't. Ooops, too bad, so sad.

Yup, I'm convinced... if you want a stagnating economy where people are dying because they can't get health care, Trump is the way to go! At least the white supremacists are happy. That's the most important thing, isn't it?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 20, 2020, 03:05:48 pm
Trump's answer, if he was smart enough to just say so, is that he believes in supplyside economics. Or just trickle down economics if it was still a popular term to use.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 20, 2020, 03:47:40 pm
What about increasing the minimum wage ?  Surely a populists policy would there be one ever !
I'd be all in favour of indexing minimum wage to cost of living or something.  The problem is, that we need to get back to policies that make businesses compete for labour.  Biden wants big increases in immigration, to increase the pool of labour.  All that does is depress wages, for everyone.  Labour needs to be turned from a huge supply, to more of a demand.  You don't do that by flooding the market with low skilled labour.  It's counter productive.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 20, 2020, 03:52:07 pm
Policy? Like Trump's policy that saw a huge spike in the deficit in order to give tax breaks to millionaires? (And that was before Covid-19 started causing problems.)

Like Trump's big health care plan... no, wait a second, he didn't actually have one. Now of course millions of people in the U.S. lack health care. Oh well, too bad, so sad.

But at least we have Trump's economic record. Except we don't.... because job and employment growth actually slowed under Trump (compared to the way things were going under Obama).

But at least Trump managed to keep the coal miners employed. Except he didn't. Ooops, too bad, so sad.

Yup, I'm convinced... if you want a stagnating economy where people are dying because they can't get health care, Trump is the way to go! At least the white supremacists are happy. That's the most important thing, isn't it?
No.  Big deficits came from increases in spending, particularly mandatory spending like Medicare and Social Security.  Under Trump the economy saw record unemployment, particularly for blacks and hispanics.  Also record wage increases.  4 years straight of decreases in the poverty rate too, and a shrinking of income inequality.  Under Obama, income inequality grew.  At least he's not actively trying to put them out of jobs, like Democrats.  Now Biden wants to do that to frackers.  Nah, you're convinced by lack of facts.  The economy was anything but stagnating.  The economy was booming.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 20, 2020, 04:06:46 pm
I'd be all in favour of indexing minimum wage to cost of living or something.  The problem is, that we need to get back to policies that make businesses compete for labour.  Biden wants big increases in immigration, to increase the pool of labour.  All that does is depress wages, for everyone.  Labour needs to be turned from a huge supply, to more of a demand.  You don't do that by flooding the market with low skilled labour.  It's counter productive.

You wannabe capitalists have nearly zero understanding of the priorities of true capitalism. You're supposed to be in favour of unions and against a minimum wage. Do you at least understand the reasons why?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 20, 2020, 05:03:08 pm
But at least Trump managed to keep the coal miners employed. Except he didn't. Ooops, too bad, so sad.
You guys are absolutely clueless.  Too much echo chamber around here I suspect.

Mayors in the mining country, who once supported Democrats, say the party no longer advocates for the working class

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/16/minnesota-democrat-switch-trump-election

Democrats used to be the party of the middle class.  Now they’re the party of the wealthy and elites.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 20, 2020, 05:34:19 pm
It might have helped iron mining some but US coal production was up a bit in 2017 then declined each year since. 2019 was the worst year this century.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 20, 2020, 06:32:27 pm
Mayors in the mining country, who once supported Democrats, say the party no longer advocates for the working class

that letter was signed by 6 mayors... apparently there's a total of 20 mayors (20 towns) within the so-called Minnesota Iron Range area. What happened to the other 14 mayors, hey? Wait, what's this - a counter from the United Steelworkers Union (USW District 11):

Quote
Recently, Vice President Mike Pence visited Duluth, Minnesota for a Trump campaign rally. Pence claimed that President Trump stood for American jobs, workers and miners and has made America great again.

On August 28th a group of six mayors from the Iron Range wrote an endorsement of Trumps reelection. Our union believes those mayors are misguided and don’t fully understand the nature of the economics of the industry or the iron range. Just drive down the main streets of Virginia and Eveleth and count the shutdown businesses. It hardly seems like the “roaring back to life” that these mayors describe.

Unfortunately, nothing could be further from the truth.

Our nation is in the deepest crisis since the Great Depression and 74,257 people in Minnesota have tested positive for COVID-19; 1,814 have died. President Trump refused to acknowledge the threat posed by the coronavirus, mobilize resources or show leadership in the face of the global pandemic.

As a result of the pandemic, almost half of the workers at the Iron Range's mines were laid off. USS Keetac is still idle and its 260 employees on layoff. Yet somehow, the president and Republican- controlled Senate don’t care enough about Keetac workers or the other 16.3 million Americans who are unemployed to extend enhanced unemployment benefits through the end of the year.

The Trump administration did impose tariffs on imported steel. But for many workers, it was too little and too late. Since January 2017, 7,900 workers in the steel industry have lost their jobs due to shutdowns or cutbacks, including the shutdown of blast furnaces at USS Great Lakes Works.

So far this year, steel mills in the United States have operated at an average of 66% of capacity during 2020, steel production is down by 20% and steel prices are at their lowest point since President Trump took office.

President Trump has allied himself and his administration with the wealthy and powerful and against workers and the most vulnerable in our society.

He’s championed tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy, increasing the federal deficit to record levels, but he’s failed to deliver the infrastructure program to rebuild our nation’s crumbling bridges and roads. He has worked to undermine collective bargaining, workplace safety, environmental safeguards, the Affordable Care Act, government ethics, congressional oversight and voting rights.

Contract negotiations in the steel and iron ore industry were difficult in 2018 and are likely to be difficult again in 2022. The companies will seek to divide us and demand cuts and concessions. Our nation and our union need a leader in the White House that supports working people and labor unions.

Vice President Joe Biden has long been a friend of workers and our union. He will fight to raise the minimum wage, expand access to affordable health care, stabilize multiemployer pension plans, defend Medicare and Social Security and preserve and expand civil and labor rights.

The USW is proud to endorse Joe Biden for president, as he seeks to put our country back on a path toward shared prosperity through responsible leadership.

Democrats used to be the party of the middle class.  Now they’re the party of the wealthy and elites.

 ;D geezaz member Shady! Now do Republicans... the party of???
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 20, 2020, 06:36:31 pm
c'mon member Shady - if you're gonna drop these gems, you can't just do a drive-by... here, have another look/go at this post, hey!

NBC: Say, you know who turned out to be right about forest fires?  Donald Trump.https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/decades-mismanagement-led-choked-forests-now-it-s-time-clear-n1243599?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

Better late than never!

notwithstanding Trump's limited view/understanding of so-called forest management is a narrow focus represented by the many times he's talked about gettin' rakes out to clean-up the forest floor!  ;D

wait member Shady, what's this... the federal government owns 57% of the forest land in the state of California. What's Trump been waiting on, hey!

Quote
“You’ve got to take care of the floors. You know the floors of the forests, it’s very important,” Trump said amid the charred ruins of Paradise — his first stop on the tour.

Trump went on to explain that the president of Finland, whom he met on an overseas trip a week earlier, told him about raking the forest floors. “He called it a forest nation,” Trump said, “and they spent a lot of time on raking and cleaning and doing things, and they don’t have any problem.”

Finnish President Sauli Niinisto later disputed this. He told a local newspaper that he had briefed Trump on Finland’s efforts to surveil and care for its forests, The Associated Press wrote, “but said he can’t recall anything being mentioned on raking.”

Raking for leaves and needles is not a normal feature of Finnish fire prevention, according to Rami Ruuska, a forest-fires expert at the Finnish Interior Ministry. Instead, Finns focus on removing dead trees from the forest floor — where possible.

c'mon member Shady, what about Trump threatening to withhold federal funds to California... until Cali buys more rakes! (ok, ok, I kid, I kid). But really, what about prescribed burns - AND the climate change Trump claims is a hoax perpetrated by China... causing the other apparent drought and bark-beetle infestation hoaxes!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 20, 2020, 07:04:45 pm
moot point! There's a reason for the recent uptick in articles/mentions/speculations on whether or not a sitting president can pardon himself!  ;D

of course there's always the weasel-around where Trump claims he's unable to continue and the "25th amendment" shifts Pence into the Presidency... and pardons flow from there!

by the by:
(https://i.imgur.com/gshhDpr.png)

Here’s what 12 experts say about whether President Trump can pardon himself (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/04/here-is-what-9-experts-say-about-whether-president-trump-can-pardon-himself.html)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 20, 2020, 07:24:09 pm
Trump trashes Fauci and makes baseless coronavirus claims in campaign call (https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/19/politics/donald-trump-anthony-fauci-coronavirus/index.html)

Quote
A frustrated and at times foul-mouthed President Donald Trump claimed on a campaign call that people are tired of hearing about the deadly pandemic which has killed more than 215,000 Americans and trashed Dr. Anthony Fauci as a "disaster" who has been around for "500 years."

Referring to Fauci and other health officials as "idiots," Trump declared the country ready to move on from the health disaster, even as cases are again spiking and medical experts warn the worst may be yet to come.

Baselessly claiming that if Fauci was in charge more than half a million people would be dead in the United States, Trump portrayed the recommendations offered by his own administration to mitigate spread of the disease as a burdensome annoyance.

"People are tired of Covid. I have the biggest rallies I've ever had, and we have Covid," Trump said, phoning into a call with campaign staff from his namesake hotel in Las Vegas, where he spent two nights amid a western campaign swing. "People are saying whatever. Just leave us alone. They're tired of it. People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots."


wait, what? Oh my - awkward... National Academy of Medicine presents citation to Fauci!  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/rW2Ijgx.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on October 21, 2020, 08:10:34 am
I'd be all in favour of indexing minimum wage to cost of living or something.  The problem is, that we need to get back to policies that make businesses compete for labour.  Biden wants big increases in immigration, to increase the pool of labour.  All that does is depress wages, for everyone.  Labour needs to be turned from a huge supply, to more of a demand.  You don't do that by flooding the market with low skilled labour.  It's counter productive.

And how, pray tell, do you grow the economy to fuel these increased wages if not let people in?

The birth rate sure ain't doing it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 21, 2020, 11:48:52 am
Quote
Policy? Like Trump's policy that saw a huge spike in the deficit in order to give tax breaks to millionaires? (And that was before Covid-19 started causing problems.)

Like Trump's big health care plan... no, wait a second, he didn't actually have one. Now of course millions of people in the U.S. lack health care. Oh well, too bad, so sad.

But at least we have Trump's economic record. Except we don't.... because job and employment growth actually slowed under Trump (compared to the way things were going under Obama).

But at least Trump managed to keep the coal miners employed. Except he didn't. Ooops, too bad, so sad.

Yup, I'm convinced... if you want a stagnating economy where people are dying because they can't get health care, Trump is the way to go! At least the white supremacists are happy. That's the most important thing, isn't it?
No.  Big deficits came from increases in spending...
Governments need to spend money to provide certain fundamentals.... the military to defend the country, police and fire fighters, roads and bridges, etc. As such, taxes need to be collected in order to pay for those things.

The deficit was decreasing under Obama. It started increasing again right after the republicans passed the "give millionaires a lot more money", aka the Tax Cuts and Jobs act. Republicans claimed the tax cuts would pay for themselves. But they didn't. The deficit went up as a result, since there was less revenue (approximately a $275 billion shortfall in revenue in the year after the tax cuts came into effect). Claiming it was "spending" that was causing it is bunk. The U.S. is not an anarchist state.

See: https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/votervital/did-the-2017-tax-cut-the-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-pay-for-itself/
 
Quote
Under Trump the economy saw record unemployment, particularly for blacks and hispanics.
First of all, any such 'success' trump had in unemployment was largely continuing a trend that began under Obama... The Obama administration actually saw HIGHER growth in employment, in the stock market, and in GDP than Trump did.

Secondly... you seem to be fixated on what you think Trump did, rather than the way things are now. The unemployment rate in the U.S. right now is 7.9%, which is a lot higher than it was at the end of Obama's tenure. Now, I am sure you will claim "but... covid!" Yes, covid had an impact. But the reason why it had such a big impact is because Trump bungled the pandemic response.

Quote
Under Obama, income inequality grew.
You do realize that under Trump, income inequality actually hit record highs not seen in half a century, right?

From: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/09/26/income-inequality-highest-over-50-years-census-bureau-shows/3772919002/
The gap between the haves and have-nots in the United States grew last year to its highest level in more than 50 years of tracking income inequality, according to Census Bureau figures. Income inequality in the United States expanded from 2017 to 2018...
Quote
  At least he's not actively trying to put them out of jobs, like Democrats.
Actually the democrats are realists.

Back in 2016, Clinton told coal miners about retraining. It made sense.... industry had changed, and those coal mining jobs weren't coming back. Trump made a bunch of empty promises... he would "bring back coal", even though it was a dying technology.
Quote
Now Biden wants to do that to frackers.
Biden has been quite clear... he will not shut down existing fracking sites. His plan is to actually increase the use of alternative energy so that fracking is no longer necessary.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/biden-ban-fracking/

Given the fact that Fracking has known problems (water and air contamination among them), some think some caution about the use of the technology is warranted.

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Nah, you're convinced by lack of facts.
Actually you seem to be the one that comes into these threads, posts a bunch of bunk, then disappears.
Quote
The economy was anything but stagnating.  The economy was booming.
From: https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2019-10-09/despite-trump-vow-manufacturing-in-recession
During President Trump’s first two years in office, his standing with many voters was buoyed by a surge in manufacturing that helped create millions of jobs and undergirded the whole U.S. economy. But today, manufacturing has plunged into recession and is threatening to pull down other sectors

From: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2020/02/01/trumps-economic-growth-is-slower-than-obamas-last-3-years/#6899911c4fed
Under Trump business investment has turned negative the past three quarters and is negative or essentially flat when the impact of inventory changes are taken into account....Obama’s last three years had better growth than Trump’s three years...

Yup, certainly sounds like Trump has done a fantastic job of keeping the economy going.

Oh, and by the way, those articles were from BEFORE covid-19 became a problem. Since Trump's screw ups are a big part of the problem why the pandemic is hitting the U.S. so hard, Trump deserves much of the blame for the fact that employment and GDP growth has slowed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 21, 2020, 12:10:44 pm
I'd be all in favour of indexing minimum wage to cost of living or something.  The problem is, that we need to get back to policies that make businesses compete for labour.  Biden wants big increases in immigration, to increase the pool of labour.  All that does is depress wages, for everyone.
First of all, it is not universally accepted that immigration depresses wages. While there are some studies that show it does, there are also studies that show there is little or no effect.

For example, from: https://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/mariel-impact.pdf
...immigrants increased the Miami labor force by 7%, and the percentage increase in labor supply to less-skilled occupations and industries was even greater because most of the immigrants were relatively unskilled....influx appears to have had virtually no effect on the wages or unemployment rates of less-skilled workers

(Again, I recognize that its one study among many, some of which are contradictory, but it means the issue isn't quote as clear cut as you make it out to be.)

Even if there is a negative effect on wage growth, the effect of other factors (such as a destructive trade war that put people out work, a pandemic that was not properly handled, and a failure to address health care which has left people struggling to deal with medical issues) is a much more significant factor on people's actual standard of living.

Lastly, there are issues at play here other than wage growth... younger immigrants might provide skills that may be lacking in the United States. Even unskilled workers can provide a benefit... they are usually younger (so they have a longer period of time where they are productive, allowing them to support older generations), and the greater worker base can increase the GDP.

From: https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2016/1/27/the-effects-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy
Has the surge in immigration since 1970 led to slower wage growth for native-born workers? Academic research does not provide much support for this claim. The evidence suggests that when immigration increases the supply of labor, firms increase investment to offset any reduction in capital per worker, thereby keeping average wages from falling over the long term. Moreover, immigrants are often imperfect substitutes for native-born workers in U.S. labor markets. That means they do not compete for the same jobs and put minimal downward pressure on natives’ wages...Immigration generally also improves the government’s fiscal situation, as many immigrants pay more in taxes over a lifetime than they consume in government services.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 21, 2020, 12:16:09 pm
big dustUp at the Trump 60 minutes taping! Trump's feefees were all hurt to the point he walked out of the interview; apparently Trumpy did not take kindly to all the questions about Covid-19, his response/statements concerning the attempted kidnapping of the Michigan Governor, his attacks against Dr. Fauci, etc.! Since then Trump and surrogates have been attacking the 60 minutes reporter at length.

of course, back in 2018, the everSmartTrump openly stated his "strategy" (to the same 60 minutes reporter) in attacking reporters/media - such a braniac!  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/6kTVQ9b.png)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 21, 2020, 11:38:05 pm
member Shady, about your boy Trumpy who self-claims to be 'very smart... and a stable genius' (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1318519296549675009/pu/vid/1280x720/2OBE_UDYK-4MaLFc.mp4?tag=10):

- had a secret Chinese bank account; paid ~$200,000 taxes to China... yet only paid $750 taxes to the U.S. IRS

- owes an undisclosed source $421 million

- has over $900 million in loans coming due over the next 4 years

- has added $3,900,000,000,000 to the U.S. federal deficit

(https://images.newrepublic.com/4aa3c4e7c6c23682dff17fd422749bcd840a822b.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 21, 2020, 11:41:21 pm
big dustUp at the Trump 60 minutes taping! Trump's feefees were all hurt to the point he walked out of the interview; apparently Trumpy did not take kindly to all the questions about Covid-19, his response/statements concerning the attempted kidnapping of the Michigan Governor, his attacks against Dr. Fauci, etc.! Since then Trump and surrogates have been attacking the 60 minutes reporter at length.
The fact that Trump is threatening to post the entire 60 minutes interview himself might be the strangest part of this story, since its hard to think of any footage from the interview that might have made Trump look good.

Trump advisor: The interview has you crapping your pants
Trump: Post the entire interview
Trump advisor: But that shows you crapping your pants and then crying after.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 07:17:03 am
member Shady, about your boy Trumpy who self-claims to be 'very smart... and a stable genius' (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1318519296549675009/pu/vid/1280x720/2OBE_UDYK-4MaLFc.mp4?tag=10):

- had a secret Chinese bank account; paid ~$200,000 taxes to China... yet only paid $750 taxes to the U.S. IRS

- owes an undisclosed source $421 million

- has over $900 million in loans coming due over the next 4 years

- has added $3,900,000,000,000 to the U.S. federal deficit

(https://images.newrepublic.com/4aa3c4e7c6c23682dff17fd422749bcd840a822b.jpeg)
Omg, a global businessman has global bank accounts!  Stop the presses.  Btw, when did private information start to be characterized as secret?  Regardless, you still can’t accept the fact that Trump has better policies.  You Trump Derangementers operate completely on non policy levels.  Do you think his bank account erases secret Biden Ukraine and China shady business dealings?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 07:19:34 am
Apparently Trump was tired. 

That this got leaked from the White House (again) shows that Trump doesn't really engender a lot of loyalty.
Yep.  He’s an outsider.  The D.C. establishment has been at war with him for 4 years.  If only he’d go along with their globalist policy interests and their foreign wars.  He garner much more support from inside the beltway.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 22, 2020, 07:25:24 am
Yep.  He’s an outsider.  The D.C. establishment has been at war with him for 4 years.  If only he’d go along with their globalist policy interests and their foreign wars.  He garner much more support from inside the beltway.

how's that Swamp draining coming along?  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/7EoCrj0.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 22, 2020, 09:12:49 am
Omg, a global businessman has global bank accounts!  Stop the presses.  Btw, when did private information start to be characterized as secret?
It is thought that having a president that exhibits excessive secrecy (such as the way Trump is attempting to hide his tax records, or his hidden bank account) leaves the potential for him to be compromised..... they may change policy to benefit himself (or those he does business dealings with) rather than benefitting the electorate. Other presidents have been much more open about their financials.

Of course, much of this might have been less of an issue if the MAGAchuds weren't trying to make such a big deal over Biden's supposed friendliness with China. So, Trump supporter's hypocrisy possibly plays a big part of this.
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Regardless, you still can’t accept the fact that Trump has better policies.
Probably because he DOESN'T have better policies.

I have given evidence that economic growth had slowed down once Trump became President, with at least some of economy (manufacturing) going into recession. And this was all before Covid-19 (where Trump's policies have made things much worse... higher death rate, worse economic impact.)

By the way, notice that word I used.... "Evidence"? I have provided multiple links (from reputable sources) to back up my point. You, on the other hand, just engage in the whole "Throw bunk against the wall and run away when you are shown to be wrong" tactic.
Quote
Do you think his bank account erases secret Biden Ukraine and China shady business dealings?
It hasn't been established that any of the dealings (either with Joe or Hunter Biden) actually were shady.

Much less evidence that Biden's dealing were shady than evidence that Trump's dealings have been shady.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 22, 2020, 11:52:06 am
Yep.  He’s an outsider.  The D.C. establishment has been at war with him for 4 years.  If only he’d go along with their globalist policy interests and their foreign wars.  He garner much more support from inside the beltway.

I don't know if he would need to go along with them as much as understand the landscape and how we got here.  The 'globalists' were/are neoliberal capitalists who are pushing multinational corporate interests and economic interests.

For Donald to vilify them for political reasons is one thing, but it seems he actually THINKS his political farts smell like roses.  In other words, he actually believes that the people behind trade policy are stupid, that you can trade war your way into a trade surplus etc.

How's that going ?  It is not. 

You are correct that Donald is despised as an outsider but the globalists are, in the end, his backers and his party.  If it's not hypocrisy for him to deny that, then it's ignorance. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 22, 2020, 12:02:58 pm
Trump represented hope for a lot of very desperate Americans and that hope is still alive in the minds of his followers. But Trump is never going to deliver for the ordinary American who is being cheated out of a piece of the American pie.

But also in fairness to Trump's people, the brighter ones know that Biden isn't going to deliver anything meaningful either. So they will cling to Trump and regardless of who wins the election, they will spend another 4 years in personal economic misery.

There's little doubt that America has slid far down the list on 'quality of life' for the average citizen. There's nothing left for them to do but wave old glory and pretend they are doing o.k.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 22, 2020, 02:16:10 pm
https://www.mediaite.com/trump/watch-trump-releases-his-full-unedited-preview-of-the-vicious-attempted-takeout-60-minutes-interview/

60 minutes interview released by WH
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 22, 2020, 03:02:12 pm
I learned that Trump’s rallies are bigger now than they ever were.  Very important information. 

I also learned that pre-existing conditions will be protected.  How?  They will always be protected.  How?  Always. 

COVID?  Saved millions of people.  How?  By saving millions.

It was a perfect interview. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 22, 2020, 05:19:31 pm
There's very little doubt that Trump intends to seel the people out on healthcare. He really has no choice if he expects big money to be on his side.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 08:05:35 pm
He really needs to lay off the bronzer. The ****.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 22, 2020, 08:07:06 pm
He really needs to lay off the bronzer. The ****.

What are you talking about???   Only the healthiest of human specimens are that shade of orange...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 09:39:15 pm
lol, what an idiot....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 23, 2020, 12:43:18 pm
You can tell that Trump clearly won the debate.  Yes, yes, he's orange, etc.  Never heard that one before.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 23, 2020, 12:44:39 pm
Trump announces a new peace deal.  Sudan and Israel agree to normalize relations.  Why couldn't Hopey Changey get any of this done?  Weird.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 23, 2020, 12:49:19 pm
If Trump's lies are ignored then Trump most likely won that debate.
However it's really a question of how many Americans are uninformed enough to be fooled by lies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 23, 2020, 01:27:07 pm
You can tell that Trump clearly won the debate.
Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

From: https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/22/politics/cnn-poll-final-presidential-debate/index.html
Joe Biden did a better job in the final debate on Thursday, according to a CNN Instant Poll of debate watchers. Overall, 53% of voters who watched the debate said that Biden won the matchup, while 39% said that President Donald Trump did.

Looks like the reality is that Biden won the debate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 23, 2020, 01:41:51 pm
Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

From: https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/22/politics/cnn-poll-final-presidential-debate/index.html
Joe Biden did a better job in the final debate on Thursday, according to a CNN Instant Poll of debate watchers. Overall, 53% of voters who watched the debate said that Biden won the matchup, while 39% said that President Donald Trump did.

Looks like the reality is that Biden won the debate.

An opinion poll would be expected to say just that. It's close to matching the opinions of their respective % of followers.
But that's Americans and as Canadians we should be capable of being a bit more objective. Trump came across as strong and loud while Biden appeared to be hanging his head in shame or even about to go to sleep.

The only way to see it as Biden winning would necessitate attaching a whole new meaning to the question on who won.

I think it's at least true that hardly any sane person could lose a debate against Trump now, but that calls for a deeper analysis than Americans can provide. On the surface, without an examination of the truths and lies, Trump came out the winner.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 23, 2020, 01:57:10 pm
Quote
Looks like the reality is that Biden won the debate.
An opinion poll would be expected to say just that. It's close to matching the opinions of their respective % of followers.
While it may be true that some (maybe even most) voters will view their preferred candidate more favorably than the opposition, it is not universal.

After the first presidential debate, only roughly 33% of voters said Trump had done a good job, despite the fact that at the time Trump's polling numbers were in the low 40% range. That means that roughly a fifth of his own supporters said he did poorly.

The same thing happened in the 2016 election, with polls regularly showing people thought Clinton did better than Trump, even more than the popular vote polls were showing.

Trump is currently sitting at 42% in the polls. The CNN debate poll shows him at 39%. That suggests that a significant number of his supporters said he lost the debate too. (It might not change their mind and they may still vote for him anyways, since they may not see the debates as critical in forming their opinions.)
If Trump really had "won" the debate, you would expect the post-debate poll to show him at least equal or even higher than his general poll standings.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-biden-debate-poll/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_debates
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 23, 2020, 02:26:23 pm
An opinion poll would be expected to say just that. It's close to matching the opinions of their respective % of followers.

While it may be true that some (maybe even most) voters will view their preferred candidate more favorably than the opposition, it is not universal.

After the first presidential debate, only roughly 33% of voters said Trump had done a good job, despite the fact that at the time Trump's polling numbers were in the low 40% range. That means that roughly a fifth of his own supporters said he did poorly.

The same thing happened in the 2016 election, with polls regularly showing people thought Clinton did better than Trump, even more than the popular vote polls were showing.

Trump is currently sitting at 42% in the polls. The CNN debate poll shows him at 39%. That suggests that a significant number of his supporters said he lost the debate too. (It might not change their mind and they may still vote for him anyways, since they may not see the debates as critical in forming their opinions.)
If Trump really had "won" the debate, you would expect the post-debate poll to show him at least equal or even higher than his general poll standings.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-biden-debate-poll/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_debates

Trump was obviously the loser in the first debate.
We'll have to wait a few days to see if Trump's popularity is moved by this one. I lean towards him getting a slight gain. However, that could be for other influencing factors.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 23, 2020, 02:35:25 pm
If Trump's lies are ignored then Trump most likely won that debate.
However it's really a question of how many Americans are uninformed enough to be fooled by lies.

I thought they both lied a lot.  Trump lies more, but the debate was a pair of old geriatric dummies trying to sell me snake oil.  At least Biden is 20x more likeable than Hillary.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 23, 2020, 02:41:29 pm
I thought they both lied a lot.  Trump lies more, but the debate was a pair of old geriatric dummies trying to sell me snake oil.  At least Biden is 20x more likeable than Hillary.

I agree on Biden lying too but who would you say won it?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on October 23, 2020, 02:48:42 pm
I thought they both lied a lot. 

That's not the way fact checkers saw it:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/22/politics/fact-check-final-presidential-election-debate/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 23, 2020, 02:53:25 pm
I thought they both lied a lot.  Trump lies more, but the debate was a pair of old geriatric dummies trying to sell me snake oil.
Trump "lies more"? That is certainly an understatement. Trump lies a lot more, and trying to give them any sort of equivalence (like "both lied a lot") seems to be a major distortion.

CNN has provided a list of some of the various lies that both Biden and Trump made... Biden had roughly a dozen false statements, but many/most of them were of the "partly true but needs context" variety.

By comparison, Trump had over 2 dozen false statements (i.e. many more than Biden), and many more of them were of the "This is an outright falsehood that cannot be explained by context" type.

See: https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/22/politics/fact-check-final-presidential-election-debate/index.html

ETA: Darn, ninja'd.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 23, 2020, 03:00:18 pm
That's not the way fact checkers saw it:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/22/politics/fact-check-final-presidential-election-debate/index.html

Graham is not one to let facts get in the way of his preconceived notions.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 23, 2020, 03:01:36 pm
A solid indication that Trump won the debate.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/29/politics/donald-trump-joe-biden-debate-poll/index.html

If Biden had won it would have to be more like 7/3 or maybe 8/2.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 23, 2020, 04:49:33 pm
That's not the way fact checkers saw it:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/22/politics/fact-check-final-presidential-election-debate/index.html

CNN fact checker is like a FOX News fact-checker: utterly useless propaganda.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 23, 2020, 04:57:01 pm
Trump "lies more"? That is certainly an understatement. Trump lies a lot more, and trying to give them any sort of equivalence (like "both lied a lot") seems to be a major distortion.

CNN has provided a list of some of the various lies that both Biden and Trump made... Biden had roughly a dozen false statements, but many/most of them were of the "partly true but needs context" variety.

By comparison, Trump had over 2 dozen false statements (i.e. many more than Biden), and many more of them were of the "This is an outright falsehood that cannot be explained by context" type.

See: https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/22/politics/fact-check-final-presidential-election-debate/index.html

ETA: Darn, ninja'd.

"Fact-check" and "CNN' don't belong in the same sentence.

Also, yes obviously Trump lied more, I specifically said that.  I'm saying Biden lied too.  It's not an "equivalence" to say that when I specifically said Trump lied MORE.  Jesus.  I would vote for Biden btw.  Here's an example, and Biden denied this specific claim last night:  https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/biden-trump-xenophobic/

But go on, everyone give Biden a pass because you hate Trump more.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 23, 2020, 04:59:00 pm
That's not the way fact checkers saw it:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/22/politics/fact-check-final-presidential-election-debate/index.html

Did CNN say Biden never lied?  Because if they did, they're both liars.

I specifically said Trump lied more.  I don't know what point you're trying to make. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 23, 2020, 06:51:32 pm
"Fact-check" and "CNN' don't belong in the same sentence.

rise above Trumpian criticism of CNN! Over recent months, CNN fact-checking has been principally done by Canadian journalist Daniel Dale (formerly Toronto Star's Washington bureau chief). It was while still with TorStar that Dale began to gain wide media notice for his fact-checking Trump - eventually, CNN hired him.

Here's an example, and Biden denied this specific claim last night:  https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/biden-trump-xenophobic/

again, context! Trump's claim was in regards to China travel restrictions. Biden has labeled the zenophobic Trump a zenophobe several times - but never in regards to China travel restrictions.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 23, 2020, 07:21:50 pm
rise above Trumpian criticism of CNN! Over recent months, CNN fact-checking has been principally done by Canadian journalist Daniel Dale (formerly Toronto Star's Washington bureau chief). It was while still with TorStar that Dale began to gain wide media notice for his fact-checking Trump - eventually, CNN hired him.

Anyone who thinks CNN is any different in pushing propaganda and bias than FOX News is either low in intelligence or an azzhole.  Regardless of Trump's opinions of CNN.

You're a walking, talking wind-up propaganda machine.  I literally don't give 2 craps what you think about anything.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 23, 2020, 08:07:36 pm
Anyone who thinks CNN is any different in pushing propaganda and bias than FOX News is either low in intelligence or an azzhole.  Regardless of Trump's opinions of CNN.

You're a walking, talking wind-up propaganda machine.  I literally don't give 2 craps what you think about anything.

whatever bias you interpret CNN to have, "it" doesn't carry over into the referenced fact-checking - again, Daniel Dale brings the receipts!

I don't know how I'll ever recover from your slag! Thanks for replying and showcasing just how many craps you do give  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on October 23, 2020, 09:52:17 pm
Anyone who thinks CNN is any different in pushing propaganda and bias than FOX News is either low in intelligence or an azzhole.  Regardless of Trump's opinions of CNN.

You're a walking, talking wind-up propaganda machine.  I literally don't give 2 craps what you think about anything.

This is the both sides bs that got America into this mess. Daniel Dale is unimpeachable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on October 23, 2020, 09:53:37 pm
Did CNN say Biden never lied?  Because if they did, they're both liars.

I specifically said Trump lied more.  I don't know what point you're trying to make.

More? It’s not even in the same universe. All humans lie, but not like Trump. You probably believe he’s draining the swamp too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 23, 2020, 11:32:42 pm
More? It’s not even in the same universe. All humans lie, but not like Trump. You probably believe he’s draining the swamp too.

I'm talking about the debate.  They both lied.  Trump lied more.  He is the swamp.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 23, 2020, 11:33:22 pm
This is the both sides bs that got America into this mess. Daniel Dale is unimpeachable.

Both sides lie.  One lies a lot more than the other.  I don't like either of them.  I dislike Biden less.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 23, 2020, 11:50:53 pm
Did CNN say Biden never lied?
Actually if you go to my post, you can see an overview of the number (and type) of lies that both gave.  So no, CNN did not say "Biden never lied".
Quote
I specifically said Trump lied more.  I don't know what point you're trying to make.
I thought the point was rather clear... the number and type of lies used by Trump is so much more significant than calling Biden "a liar" ignores the magnitude of the difference between the 2.

Both Trump and Biden are liars, in the same way that a murderer and a jaywalker are both criminals.... yes, technically it is true, but its a distorted way to look at things.

Quote
Anyone who thinks CNN is any different in pushing propaganda and bias than FOX News is either low in intelligence or an azzhole.

You really don't understand what Fox news is, do you.

I have no problem with someone claiming that CNN has a bias. But, for the most part they function with a certain amount of journalistic ethics. Fox does not.... they will regularly manufacture scandals to attack Democrats where none exists, engage in pure hypocrisy and partisanship, and outright lie.

Consider for example a picture from Obama's tenure, where he was shown saluting with a coffee cup in his hand. This was a major scandal on Fox, and multiple commentators all held it up as some sort of moral failing. (OMG! He is disrespecting the troops). Yet only a few years earlier, Bush had been photographed saluting while holding a dog. There was absolutely no comment from Fox at the time. Furthermore, CNN did not similarly suggest that Bush's scandal was somehow "disrespecting the troops", even though if we follow your logic (that CNN is the same as Fox) then they would have had it splashed all over their news programs. But they did not.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on October 24, 2020, 12:02:40 am
Both sides lie.  One lies a lot more than the other.  I don't like either of them.  I dislike Biden less.

I just don’t think that’s a fair comparison. Yes, Biden lies. I lie. You lie. For Trump we need to invent a new word. Trump doesn’t lie. Trump spews untruth with a firehose. He’s a grenade of lies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on October 24, 2020, 11:21:22 am
I just don’t think that’s a fair comparison. Yes, Biden lies. I lie. You lie. For Trump we need to invent a new word. Trump doesn’t lie. Trump spews untruth with a firehose. He’s a grenade of lies.
Trump doesn't just lie....he completely makes **** up. Biden's "lies" are spin, iow, contextualizing things in the most positive light for him and his party. That's not the same as just making up wild-ass bullshit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 24, 2020, 11:31:53 am
oh my! --- https://trumpcovidplan.com/

(https://i.imgur.com/NQXmju9.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 24, 2020, 11:38:19 am
jarvanka are really, really, really ticked... at some group exercising its U.S. 1st amendment rights!  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/NCGx1TJ.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 24, 2020, 11:52:48 am
Quote from: U.S. President Donald J. Trump
"We are rounding the turn (on coronavirus). We are rounding the corner."

(https://i.imgur.com/87LtY0h.png)

U.S. record daily case count reached yesterday, Oct 23 --- 85,085 new cases of Covid-19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 24, 2020, 01:42:09 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/87LtY0h.png)

U.S. record daily case count reached yesterday, Oct 23 --- 85,085 new cases of Covid-19

This could all of a sudden turn from politics into something very scary for not just them. They're right at a thousand deaths a day average and the infection rate chart shows very bad news for the next couple of weeks.

Assuming that they haven't been able to manipulate the infection rate with a blitz on testing for political reasons.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 24, 2020, 03:09:46 pm
There's a lot of concern regarding what happens after the election if Trump loses, as appears very likely. People are worried about whether Trump will accept the outcome. People are wondering whether there are legal shenanigans that Trump could use to hang on to power. What about the Senate? What about the Supreme Court?

Trump will of course claim the election results have been rigged, but I don't think the Republican establishment is going to go to the wall to help him overturn the election.

If there is a chance that the election could swing on a few states that could be close enough for the outcome to be affected by recounts and court challenges (as we saw in the 2000 election) then the Republicans would of course fight those battles.  But if the results turn out as lopsided as polling indicates right now, Republicans will have to accept that the writing is on the wall, whether Trump likes it or not.  Unlike Trump, they have to think of the future.  And to attempt to overturn the results of an election would damage their future for a long time to come.

Mitch McConnell has already gotten what he wanted out of Donald Trump.  When Amy Coney Barrett is installed on the Supreme Court, McConnell's biggest dream will have come to fruition: conservative control of the courts for decades to come. He has already filled lower courts with conservative judges, and when Coney-Barrett is confirmed, that will be the conclusion of his ambitions. McConnell has already won, so what else does Trump have to offer to get McConnell to stick his neck out?  There's not much to gain by attempting to help Trump cling to power, but there is a lot to lose for Republicans by aligning with a naked power grab. They need to think about the 2022 election and the 2024 election and beyond. Mitch isn't a dumb guy, he knows that what he does between now and February will impact the Republican brand for a long time to come.  This is McConnell's chance to start building for the future, his chance to be the good-guy: "We are Americans, and we believe in democracy. The American people have spoken, and we accept their verdict."

And, even if McConnell himself did commit to helping Trump cling to power, there's the question of how many other Senators would be on board.   They have only the barest majority right now.  Mitt Romney will not support any attempted coup attempted by Trump.  Neither would Lisa Murkowski.  Several other senators are no fans of Trump. Several other senators are young enough to care about their futures, and know that participating in a coup attempt would doom their careers if they represent anything other than pure "red" states. And Martha McSally's Democratic opponent will almost certainly win the Arizona special election, and will be seated before the end of November. In short, Trump shouldn't count on support from the US Senate if he attempts to cling to power.  Indeed, if he loses the election there might be enough Republican senators willing to support his impeachment to make it happen.

What about the Supreme Court?  They don't have to worry about re-election. But, they also don't owe Trump anything. They have their reputations and credibility to think of. They have their legacy to think of.  After seeing the accolades bestowed on RBG after her death, none of these judges will want to be remembered best for having overturned an election.  Coney-Barrett and Kavanaugh will in particular be under extreme scrutiny during this time, and will be keenly aware of how they will be viewed if they aid in overturning the results of the election. While they might hope in private for a Republican victory, I can't imagine that they would make any novel or bold ruling in support of Trump.


Maybe I'm naive, maybe I am underestimating the amount of legal hijinks the Republicans might be willing to attempt, but I don't think they will.  Remember, they didn't want Trump in the first place, and this is their chance to be rid of him. I think that they are politically astute enough to recognize that the cost of fighting to keep Trump in power is too high and that they would be best to start planning for their post-Trump future.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 24, 2020, 03:24:31 pm
Actually if you go to my post, you can see an overview of the number (and type) of lies that both gave.  So no, CNN did not say "Biden never lied".I thought the point was rather clear... the number and type of lies used by Trump is so much more significant than calling Biden "a liar" ignores the magnitude of the difference between the 2.

Both Trump and Biden are liars, in the same way that a murderer and a jaywalker are both criminals.... yes, technically it is true, but its a distorted way to look at things.

You really don't understand what Fox news is, do you.

I have no problem with someone claiming that CNN has a bias. But, for the most part they function with a certain amount of journalistic ethics. Fox does not.... they will regularly manufacture scandals to attack Democrats where none exists, engage in pure hypocrisy and partisanship, and outright lie.

Consider for example a picture from Obama's tenure, where he was shown saluting with a coffee cup in his hand. This was a major scandal on Fox, and multiple commentators all held it up as some sort of moral failing. (OMG! He is disrespecting the troops). Yet only a few years earlier, Bush had been photographed saluting while holding a dog. There was absolutely no comment from Fox at the time. Furthermore, CNN did not similarly suggest that Bush's scandal was somehow "disrespecting the troops", even though if we follow your logic (that CNN is the same as Fox) then they would have had it splashed all over their news programs. But they did not.

CNN and FOX News are complete and utter tabloid trash.  CNN is 24/7 anti-Trump propaganda and it has no ethics beyond getting ratings.  It's been several years since its been anything approaching a respectable journalism outlet.  If you think FOX is worse, that's fine, it doesn't mean CNN isn't trash, doesn't lie, and can't be trusted.

Therefore, I'm not going to even open your CNN link because it can't be trusted to be objective reporting a Trump vs Biden debate.  Give me a break.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 24, 2020, 03:25:21 pm
whatever bias you interpret CNN to have, "it" doesn't carry over into the referenced fact-checking - again, Daniel Dale brings the receipts!

I don't know how I'll ever recover from your slag! Thanks for replying and showcasing just how many craps you do give  ;D

Take your propaganda shtick and shove it up your rear end.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 24, 2020, 03:42:35 pm
Trump doesn't just lie....he completely makes **** up. Biden's "lies" are spin, iow, contextualizing things in the most positive light for him and his party. That's not the same as just making up wild-ass bullshit.

"Biden lies are just spin".  LOL.  He outright lied numerous times during the debate.  He said he never called Trump "xenophobic" for his early COVID reponse.  A total lie

It's fine to like the guy more than Trump, Trump's a piece of crap, but it's not fine to make all sorts of excuses for Biden when he does wrong.  I like him more too, but a piece of crap politician is a piece of crap politician.

It doesn't matter, you guys will convince yourselves of whatever lies let you sleep at night.  The fact is no matter who wins the election the US is going to get screwed up the rump, it's pick your poison.  The Democrats have always been the kinder, gentler, less racist and less crazy a-holes who sell America out to the higher bidder just like the GOP.  I dislike them much less than the GOP, but I still dislike them.  So yes defend your chosen dirtbag.  Mirrors and pulleys for life.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: WakeYouUp on October 24, 2020, 04:20:28 pm
Breaking News! Hunter Biden’s Sex Tapes, The CCP’s “BGY” Infiltration in the U.S., Evil Alliance to Dominate the World


The video link:

https://gtv.org//?videoid=5f94837c7de25667c0fe0c5e

Thanks to Mr. Alvin Jiang (Mr. Jiang Zhicheng), Mr. Bruno Wu (Mr. Wu Zheng), Mr. Zhang Hongwei, Chairman of the Orient Group Inc., and many more people who will remain anonymous.

We apologize if the video from Hunter Biden has caused you any serious discomfort! But it is for the sake of justice that we, the New Federal State of China, have made this video public. Because the friends of the communist are our enemies.

We will not allow anyone to steal from the Chinese people!
We will not allow anyone to enslave the Chinese people!
We will not allow anyone to abuse our children!

This video shows only the tip of the iceberg of what is important in the Chinese Communist Party’s Blue-Gold-Yellow (BGY) program. They take advantage of all those Western politicians, celebrities, and their families who are greedy for Chinese wealth and threaten them by getting hold of and recording their sex and drug videos, forcing them to sell out their countries and people, and even their own national security in order to cooperate with the Chinese Communist Party’s world domination.

U.S. presidential candidate Joe Biden is 100% controlled by the Chinese Communist Party as one of the most successful political instances of the BGY program. He is also a target of the CCP’s 3F plan, which aims to “fall, fail, and fell,” to weaken, destroy and kill America!

The Chinese Communist Party’s use of this tactic to threaten Biden and his sons and to bribe them with large amounts of wealth is one of the major causes of the disputes over the South China Sea, US-China trade, intellectual property rights, and energy prices, etc., as well as Biden’s provision of large numbers of CIA intelligence agents in China to the Chinese Communist Party.

The Chinese Communist Party has such a BGY program in the United States and in several Western countries in Europe. We will have millions of videos and photos of government officials, corrupt people, traitors, and criminals colluding with the Communist Party to dominate the world.

It doesn’t matter what country you come from, what ethnicity or color you are, or what party you belong to. The next person to be abused maybe your daughter, your wife, your sister, so there are no party or ethnic borders when it comes to eliminating the Chinese Communist Party.

The next picture will be released in an hour, please stay tuned!

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 24, 2020, 05:13:37 pm
Breaking News! Hunter Biden’s Sex Tapes

so there it is!  ;D (and no I haven't followed your link) - as ColludyRudy said, the 'big one' would be released 10 days from the election.

but hey now, riddle me this. Even if yet another of your GNews gems purports to say something about the son, my early days nun/monk led teachings have me recalling that the, "sins of the fathers are visited upon the children". I do believe you have it turned around, yes?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 24, 2020, 05:30:35 pm
You're a walking, talking wind-up propaganda machine.  I literally don't give 2 craps what you think about anything.
Take your propaganda shtick and shove it up your rear end.

this is so unlike you! Clearly you're troubled - big time. Perhaps take a break, get some rest and come back refreshed. Take care of yourself, hey Gorgeous? ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: WakeYouUp on October 24, 2020, 07:33:38 pm
so there it is!  ;D (and no I haven't followed your link) - as ColludyRudy said, the 'big one' would be released 10 days from the election.

but hey now, riddle me this. Even if yet another of your GNews gems purports to say something about the son, my early days nun/monk led teachings have me recalling that the, "sins of the fathers are visited upon the children". I do believe you have it turned around, yes?

The reason why Gnews released this type of videotape is to let you naive North Americans know that the Biden family is compromised. This type of videotape was sent out from the insiders of the Chinese Communist Party. So think a bit of deeply. If they have the videotape of Hunter Biden, do they have the videotape of Joe? or even Obama? Imagine they do have, it would be a very powerful blackmail tool. That's the reason why the Biden family is controlled by the Chinese Communist Party.

Actually, it's not just Democrats, some Republicans are in trouble as well. To name one, Steven Mnuchin is compromised as well. Wait for the material in the future.

Also, my suggestion to you naive North Americans, don't try to guess people's motivation. Just focus on the material. Fact is a fact so if it's real or not is most important.

Joe Biden is a total liar to the degree that normal people won't dare to think. We have the proof and soon it will be released. For naive people like you guys, be prepared not to be devastated.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 24, 2020, 08:52:05 pm
This type of videotape was sent out from the insiders of the Chinese Communist Party.

wait, what? Since when are your boys RudyColludy, Bannon & Gui, as you say, "insiders of the CCP"? Pleeeease!

If they have the videotape of Hunter Biden, do they have the videotape of Joe? or even Obama?

or even Trump?  ;D With all of Trump's sexual pursuits, notwithstanding assaults (alleged) against the ~20+ or so women who have come forward over the years, how can they not have, as you say, "even Trump", hey! C'mon, is the peeTape for real, or not?

Joe Biden is a total liar to the degree that normal people won't dare to think. We have the proof and soon it will be released. For naive people like you guys, be prepared not to be devastated.

you say, "We have the proof"... who is "We"? My gawd man, just how connected are you? Yeesh!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: WakeYouUp on October 24, 2020, 09:39:50 pm
I really don't want to be offensive but what you said just shows how naive you are in terms of politics.

What's the definition of corruption? dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power particularly the people holding public office.

Biden has been in public office either as a senate or vice president. His betrayal is called corruption because he traded the interest of America for his personal gain

Trump was a successful businessman. Whether he's a womanizer or not before he took office can only be judged by a moral level. He might be a playboy but he's not corrupted. Check the definition above. It's not criminal activity. Can you raise any single case after he took office?

You can hate Trump but you need to have the gut to face the brutal fact that the guy carrying your hope actually is evil. 100 times worse than Trump. At least, Trump is a human being, might not be very likable to some people. But the Biden family was a bunch of monsters under a nice suite.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 24, 2020, 09:45:57 pm
Biden is 100X worse than Trump ?

I STRONGLY suspect that you're a troll or cult member, unfortunately.  Did you follow politics before 2016 ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: WakeYouUp on October 24, 2020, 10:22:33 pm
Biden is 100X worse than Trump ?

I STRONGLY suspect that you're a troll or cult member, unfortunately.  Did you follow politics before 2016 ?

How come your reply is like the Chinese Communist Party? Always ignore the truth, the fact, instead, focus on who the person is, what's the person's motivation.

It doesn't matter who I am. Even if I were a criminal, I still could be a tainted witness as long as I am telling the truth.

You don't need to trust my word but I encourage you to verify. By the way, have you ever verify anything from the fake mainstream media? or You just take whatever they say?

Here's a good example of the evil force behind all these medias' censorship:

When someone hacked Trump's tax report the mainstream media have no problem letting it circulate on the internet. You know it's illegal to publish personal documents without consent. But nobody cares.

Comes to Biden's scandal, even FBI admitted that they have had the hard drives since last December but they haven't done anything to it yet, it's the Whistleblower Movement that got the content of hard drives and released it to the public. However, Twitter and Facebook blocked the news and deleted people's accounts. How do they know if it's true or not?



Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 24, 2020, 11:32:16 pm
Biden has been in public office either as a senate or vice president. His betrayal is called corruption because he traded the interest of America for his personal gain

other than your repeated references to the most suspect 'GNews', you've put nothing forward that speaks of said "betrayal". Incredibly you expect members here to take you seriously!

Trump was a successful businessman. Whether he's a womanizer or not before he took office can only be judged by a moral level. He might be a playboy but he's not corrupted.

the farce that continues over a claimed IRS audit has stopped Trump from releasing his taxes... even though many tax experts have stated an actual audit of taxes shouldn't preclude anyone from releasing past years taxes. What's he hiding, hey! Trump is said to owe ~$420 million dollars to... to who? To who/what is Trump beholding to for that money? Trump is said to have $900 million in loans coming due in the upcoming years... loans from who? I suggest your claimed statement about a lack of Trump corruption is on par with your claimed statement that, as you said, "Trump was a successful businessman"!  ;D You should have stated Trump was a most successful ConMan!
(https://i.imgur.com/kdCApnu.png)

You can hate Trump but you need to have the gut to face the brutal fact that the guy carrying your hope actually is evil. 100 times worse than Trump. At least, Trump is a human being, might not be very likable to some people. But the Biden family was a bunch of monsters under a nice suite.

you have me confused with an American carrying hope... or a wannabe American like member Shady. I most certainly have a preference in terms of Canada-U.S. relations, in terms of how the U.S. impacts upon Canada, in terms of global stability, in terms of gaining a sense of lost normalcy, in terms of stopping the daily Trump shyte show, etc., etc., etc..
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 25, 2020, 07:23:32 am
How come your reply is like the Chinese Communist Party? Always ignore the truth, the fact, instead, focus on who the person is, what's the person's motivation.

Well.. when the person is a noted scam artist, bankruptcy king and liar then ... yes ... I focus on that.  It's rare to have such a clearly terrible person as president.

Quote

You don't need to trust my word but I encourage you to verify. By the way, have you ever verify anything from the fake mainstream media? or You just take whatever they say?

Trump's idiocy was firmly cemented in my wall of knowledge before he ever decided to dupe the American people and run for president.

Quote
Comes to Biden's scandal, even FBI admitted that they have had the hard drives since last December but they haven't done anything to it yet, it's the Whistleblower Movement that got the content of hard drives and released it to the public. However, Twitter and Facebook blocked the news and deleted people's accounts. How do they know if it's true or not?

The FBI hasn't charged anybody or even admitted there's anything there.  And it belongs to Biden's son right ?  Why do I care if he has a sex tape ?

Like I say - you are a troll - perhaps a paid one - or a cultish dupe.

Noted you didn't answer my question about being into politics before 2016.  I happen to know a Canadian MAGA personally.  He was one of the dumbest, most naive people I had ever known and barely knew what was going on in politics when I knew him.  Now he's an expert on China, the economy and the 'deep state'.

I now believe you types will disappear after this election, maybe surfacing every election to push a fringe candidate.  Hopefully the conservative parties will learn their lesson from all of this.  It may be too late for the Republicans.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 25, 2020, 12:34:12 pm
Well.. when the person is a noted scam artist, bankruptcy king and liar then ... yes ... I focus on that.  It's rare to have such a clearly terrible person as president.

Trump's idiocy was firmly cemented in my wall of knowledge before he ever decided to dupe the American people and run for president.

The FBI hasn't charged anybody or even admitted there's anything there.  And it belongs to Biden's son right ?  Why do I care if he has a sex tape ?

Like I say - you are a troll - perhaps a paid one - or a cultish dupe.

Noted you didn't answer my question about being into politics before 2016.  I happen to know a Canadian MAGA personally.  He was one of the dumbest, most naive people I had ever known and barely knew what was going on in politics when I knew him.  Now he's an expert on China, the economy and the 'deep state'.

I now believe you types will disappear after this election, maybe surfacing every election to push a fringe candidate.  Hopefully the conservative parties will learn their lesson from all of this.  It may be too late for the Republicans.
You should care because the “big guy” was getting kickbacks.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 25, 2020, 12:48:28 pm
Trump is taking positions which are popular with a people who are taught to hate communism, socialism, and even the hint of socially responsible capitalism. Not to even have to mention the racist hate that necessarily goes along with their hate for China.

That Trump platform for the sake of the election almost certainly won't continue after the election if he should be able to win. And there's still a good possibility of him winning because many different mechanisms have been created in his favour.

This would almost certainly lead to the US becoming a fascit regime.

Would this be a bad thing for Canada?

Maybe rather than Canadians pouring so much emotion into their election by taking sides, the implications of either of them winning could be taken into consideration?

My first question is, how will the extremely dangerous situation between the US, Russia, and China come to evolve under Democratic party control?

Russia and China are being pushed around unnecessarily by the US, while we can only depend on M.A.D. to keep us safe! Russia and China may not win with either of them but there's little doubt that both of them have the resolve to not lose the final big fight.

How do Biden and Trump compare to the real future we can look forward to when the US is also resolved to maintain world power?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 25, 2020, 08:47:59 pm
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/25/business/media/hunter-biden-wall-street-journal-trump.html

The Biden laptop story... crashing and burning...

The WSJ wouldn't run it...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 25, 2020, 10:29:32 pm
There's a lot of concern regarding what happens after the election if Trump loses, as appears very likely. People are worried about whether Trump will accept the outcome. People are wondering whether there are legal shenanigans that Trump could use to hang on to power.
I think what some people are worried about is that more Democrats voted by mail than republicans, and mail-in ballots take longer to process/count than ballots cast on election day (or in an advanced poll.)  So, you could have a situation where early results on election night favor Trump, but once all the ballots are counted Biden becomes the winner. What Trump might try to do is get the supreme court to interfere, and have them stop counting election night, with the argument that "we have to know who the winner is right away".

Quote
Trump will of course claim the election results have been rigged, but I don't think the Republican establishment is going to go to the wall to help him overturn the election.
Keep in mind that what benefits Trump may also benefit down-ballot republicans (such as congress-critters). If they help Trump, they may also be helping keep the Senate in republican hands. I think Moscow Mitch would approve.

If there is a chance that the election could swing on a few states that could be close enough for the outcome to be affected by recounts and court challenges (as we saw in the 2000 election) then the Republicans would of course fight those battles.  But if the results turn out as lopsided as polling indicates right now, Republicans will have to accept that the writing is on the wall, whether Trump likes it or not.[/quote]
Here is the thing though...in a poll, roughly 1/3rd of democrats said they planned to vote on election day, whereas roughly 2/3rds of republicans said they would. That is a substantially large disparity, and could dwarf even a large democratic victory.
Quote
Unlike Trump, they have to think of the future.  And to attempt to overturn the results of an election would damage their future for a long time to come.
First of all, keep in mind that congress critters tend to be quite interested in their own political fortunes. Staying in power NOW (even for a brief time) may be more important to them than some hypothetical Republican victory down the road (when the current crop of politicians have long retired.)

Secondly, in the past 2 decades we have seen Republicans get the courts to interfere with elections in the past, they had a president get them involved in a war that ended up very unpopular, and they have selected a racist con artist to be the nominee. And yet their current presidental candidate may get ~40% of the vote. Seems like they may think they are somehow bulletproof.
Quote
Mitch McConnell has already gotten what he wanted out of Donald Trump.  When Amy Coney Barrett is installed on the Supreme Court, McConnell's biggest dream will have come to fruition: conservative control of the courts for decades to come. He has already filled lower courts with conservative judges, and when Coney-Barrett is confirmed, that will be the conclusion of his ambitions. McConnell has already won, so what else does Trump have to offer to get McConnell to stick his neck out?
But the problem is, the Democrats do have tactics that can be used to undo so much of what the republicans have done, if they do win both the Senate and the White House. (Assuming of course they want to play hardball.)

Ending the fillibuster will allow them to cram through all sorts of legislation. Granting statehood to Puerto Rico and Washington DC will make it much harder for the Republicans to win the white house or senate (since those would likely be solid republican seats.) Expanding both the supreme court and lower courts will undo all of Moscow Mitch's dirty tricks in manipulating the judiciary. And they can pass a new version of the voting rights act, to prevent state-level republicans from gerrymandering and voter suppression.

I suspect they would want to maintain as much power as they can to try to block that.

Quote
And, even if McConnell himself did commit to helping Trump cling to power, there's the question of how many other Senators would be on board.   They have only the barest majority right now.  Mitt Romney will not support any attempted coup attempted by Trump.  Neither would Lisa Murkowski.  Several other senators are no fans of Trump.
Yet they all voted not to impeach him. Seems being 'no fans of Trump' doesn't mean they actually want to actually do anything to remove him.
Quote
What about the Supreme Court?  They don't have to worry about re-election. But, they also don't owe Trump anything. They have their reputations and credibility to think of. They have their legacy to think of.  After seeing the accolades bestowed on RBG after her death, none of these judges will want to be remembered best for having overturned an election.
You assume that the judges are thinking that 1) their decisions need to be popular, and 2) even if they think they want to do the 'popular' thing, they may still mistake what Trump wants as what "the nation" wants.
Quote
Maybe I'm naive, maybe I am underestimating the amount of legal hijinks the Republicans might be willing to attempt, but I don't think they will.
Well, so far in this election we have seen the republicans:
- Install a bunch of fake ballot boxes in California (they were told to remove them, they said 'nah')
- Eliminate a bunch of drop-off sites for mail in ballots on Texas
- Royally screw-up the postal office

Don't put anything past the republicans.

Quote
Remember, they didn't want Trump in the first place, and this is their chance to be rid of him.
They had a chance during the impeachment. Could have replaced Stubby McBonespurs with Racist Bannon (i.e. Mike Pence). Would have been like the Republicans standing up to Nixon. Sure, they might have lost some of the MAGAchuds who were hard-core Trump supporters (and it might have cost them the 2020 election), but they would have been in a better position to see a rebound.

Yet instead of attempting to remove Trump, they decided to tie themselves even more to him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 26, 2020, 12:19:05 am
on the campaign trail today, Trumpy signs a flesh-coloured pumpkin!

(https://i.imgur.com/j7ZEBNg.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on October 26, 2020, 07:28:03 am
I'd be wearing a mask if I was that Pumpkin.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on October 26, 2020, 08:27:56 am
(https://i.redd.it/5zb0g137bdv51.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 26, 2020, 10:07:49 am
the farce that continues over a claimed IRS audit has stopped Trump from releasing his taxes... even though many tax experts have stated an actual audit of taxes shouldn't preclude anyone from releasing past years taxes.
Side note: It is true... trump lied when he said he couldn't release taxes when under audit.

But, from what I understand, the audit may be very real. The problem is that there was a year where trump (thanks to his habit of losing money) claimed a very big rebate one year (over $70 million). When there are rebates of that size, congress gets involved, and the committee that does the auditing has let it lag.

https://www.accountingtoday.com/articles/trumps-73m-tax-refund-stuck-with-little-known-panel

Quote
What's he hiding, hey! Trump is said to owe ~$420 million dollars to... to who? To who/what is Trump beholding to for that money? Trump is said to have $900 million in loans coming due in the upcoming years... loans from who? I suggest your claimed statement about a lack of Trump corruption is on par with your claimed statement that, as you said, "Trump was a successful businessman"!  ;D You should have stated Trump was a most successful ConMan!
(List of Trump's Bankruptcies, business failures, and frauds snipped for length)[/img]
You are forgetting the most significant one: The Trump foundation.

The Trump foundation was supposedly a charity that had a reputation for using its funds in a less than ethical manner... buying paintings of Trump (which were displayed at his properties), using it to bribe politicians, and advancing Trump's business interests. As a result, the courts ended the Trump foundation, and Trump and his hell-spawn are restricted in their ability to participate in charities in the future. (It isn't  total ban, but there are some pretty strict limitations.)

So just think... the position of president (a position that in theory should have a goal of improving the lives of its citizens, and to a lesser extent the lives of people outside its borders) is currently held by an individual that the courts have decided cannot run an organization that is dedicated to helping people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_J._Trump_Foundation#Legal_and_ethical_controversies
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/oct/24/facebook-posts/trump-family-disallowed-operating-charities-new-yo/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 26, 2020, 11:57:07 pm
Trump attempts to appeal to his base, most of which I suspect are about kindergarten IQ level, by mocking Kamala's name during a rally. How low can these mo'fo's go i wonder? Next week will likely draw out the childishness as trump continues to fall in the polls and election day looms.

https://www.msnbc.com/11th-hour/watch/trump-mocks-kamala-harris-s-name-says-nobody-likes-her-91289669763#:~:text=Trump%20mocks%20Kamala%20Harris%27s%20name%2C%20says%20%27nobody%20likes,Alexi%20McCammond%20of%20Axios%20reacts.%20Sept.%208%2C%202020
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on October 27, 2020, 09:01:58 pm
Lesley Stahl is now under 24 hour guard:

https://www.tmz.com/2020/10/27/lesley-stahl-death-threat-trump-60-minutes-interview/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 28, 2020, 12:07:26 am
Lesley Stahl is now under 24 hour guard:

https://www.tmz.com/2020/10/27/lesley-stahl-death-threat-trump-60-minutes-interview/

Of course.  The Mango Mussolini has many Blackshirts who would purge the Fatherland of those who will not swear allegiance to Il Douche.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 28, 2020, 01:07:00 am
Trump campaign now pulling their advertising money out of Florida and spending their remaining money in Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio and Pennsylvania.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 28, 2020, 08:28:46 am
Well, at least on the bright side they didn't catch Covid...

From: https://www.newsweek.com/omaha-trump-rally-attendees-stranded-several-taken-hospital-suffering-hypothermia-1542741
Backers of President Donald Trump were left stranded overnight, with several taken to hospital for hypothermia after an Omaha campaign rally ended in chaos. Hundreds were bussed in to the Eppley Airfield site, leaving their cars in parking lots, but were left wandering up to four miles in the cold after coaches failed to pick them up.

Ah, I love the smell of schadenfreude in the morning.


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on October 28, 2020, 09:58:26 am
Someone better tell the Stock Markets that Trump beat the Coronavirus. They aren't listening.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 28, 2020, 10:24:12 am
Someone better tell the Stock Markets that Trump beat the Coronavirus. They aren't listening.

Really ?  I was just on the FOX News homepage and they weren't talking about it.  Strange...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 28, 2020, 11:48:30 am
(https://i.imgur.com/oVbkZtg.png)


buried the lede: the White House actually has a 'science office'!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 28, 2020, 11:58:53 am
It could be that Trump can gather large crowds because people are desperate to find entertainment and just simply something to do with their time when we're all so restricted by Covid.
I question that actually turning into votes  at the ballot box so I predict a big win for Biden.
A prediction that has no more chance of being right than any other. But what the hell, it doesn't cost anything other than being questioned on my ability to predict!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 28, 2020, 12:29:45 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/oVbkZtg.png)


buried the lede: the White House actually has a 'science office'!

Unfortunately I suspect the people who are naive, gullible, stupid enough to support this idiot will buy this latest blatant lie and then gang up in ever more celebrations and completely overflow the hospitals. It seems to me there should be some sort of criminal consequence for making such a clearly erroneous statement that could obviously have a detrimental effect on public health.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 28, 2020, 12:41:32 pm
Trump is just a symptom of a very corrupted society. If he's not elected and it's not him that brings their country down then it will be some other symptom, such as Biden or some other American.

America isn't going to change from their greedy form of capitalism. They still believe in it and they're enthusiastically waving their flags and their guns to celebrate it!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 28, 2020, 08:56:55 pm
Dirtbag Trumps threaten to sue over billboards. 

https://boingboing.net/2020/10/24/jared-and-ivanka-are-mad-about-these-billboard-ads-so-please-dont-share-these-photos-of-them.html/amp



(https://i0.wp.com/boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/JARED-AND-IVANKA.jpg?fit=930%2C523&ssl=1)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 28, 2020, 09:32:28 pm
I don't have a problem with those billboards.  I think it's a waste of money to put them in Times Square.  NYC isn't going to vote GOP billboard or no billboard.  They should put them in a swing state.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 28, 2020, 10:22:57 pm
Trump is just a symptom of a very corrupted society. If he's not elected and it's not him that brings their country down then it will be some other symptom, such as Biden or some other American.

America isn't going to change from their greedy form of capitalism. They still believe in it and they're enthusiastically waving their flags and their guns to celebrate it!

Trump is just an example of corrupted society. His old man made money selling ****. booze, drugs. He set his son up to be just as sleezy and he was happy to fall into the roll.That doesn't tell me the whole place is the same. I'm hopefully confident that the majority of Americans, regardless of political slant, want to turn the page next week and restore at least some of previous respect.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 29, 2020, 12:13:22 pm
Trump is just an example of corrupted society. His old man made money selling ****. booze, drugs. He set his son up to be just as sleezy and he was happy to fall into the roll.That doesn't tell me the whole place is the same. I'm hopefully confident that the majority of Americans, regardless of political slant, want to turn the page next week and restore at least some of previous respect.

You're missing nearly all the key points about what has happened in that country. If you're at all interested in the real story then just ask. There is no incnetive for me to just repeat it for deaf ears.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 30, 2020, 04:30:24 am
Re: Ivanka/Kushner negative campaign ad billboard...
I don't have a problem with those billboards.  I think it's a waste of money to put them in Times Square.  NYC isn't going to vote GOP billboard or no billboard.  They should put them in a swing state.
I agree that very few voters who might actually affect the election outcome will see it.

On the other hand, the reaction from the Trump administration as probably garnered more publicity (and as a result more people know of the ad) than if they had simply put it up in some swing state. Plus, they seem to have gotten inside Ivanka's/Kushner's head.  So maybe that was their plan.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on October 30, 2020, 10:22:28 am
Either the voter turnout is going to be extraordinary for this election or people just will mostly have voted before election day.

Early voting numbers are close to eclipsing total voting numbers for 2016.

We know Trump was elected due to a large level of voter apathy. He wasn't all that much more popular than GOP candidates that lost to Obama.

The more we see the turnout numbers the more I'm convinced that Biden is going to win this in a landslide. The GOP will concede that the more people vote, the more less they are likely to win.

But we're not allowed to think that way, because, you know 2016.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 30, 2020, 10:31:54 am
I'm less concerned about what people who voted have actually chosen, and more concerned about the impact of voter suppression efforts and how many ballots the GOP will succeed in having disqualified.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on October 30, 2020, 11:01:01 am
The fear is that Trump will find any excuse to get a challenge to the SCOTUS and because he's packed it, they'll do whatever he wants.

You'd have to think they'd have to have some compelling evidence of fraud for even diehard Conservative justices to throw out election results. But who knows? \

Trump consistently claims fraud but has never compellingly proven it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 30, 2020, 12:02:54 pm
I'm less concerned about what people who voted have actually chosen, and more concerned about the impact of voter suppression efforts and how many ballots the GOP will succeed in having disqualified.

 -k
There is no such thing as voter suppression.  As long as ballots follow the law.  They won’t be disqualified.  Laws matter.  Despite what Democrats think.  IDs are needed.  Signatures have to match.  You know, little things like that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 30, 2020, 12:03:42 pm
The fear is that Trump will find any excuse to get a challenge to the SCOTUS and because he's packed it, they'll do whatever he wants.

You'd have to think they'd have to have some compelling evidence of fraud for even diehard Conservative justices to throw out election results. But who knows? \

Trump consistently claims fraud but has never compellingly proven it.
Only a fear shared by TDSers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 30, 2020, 12:12:43 pm
Anyone who supports Trump or Biden is an absolute imbecile who is complicit in their support for destroying America.  Unfortunately, most Americans are imbeciles.  They're being outfoxed by corporations in service of profits at the expense of the USA.

What needs to happen is not to have politicians swear to defend the constitution, but swear an allegiance to the flag, and to the republic for which it stands.  And when a politician acts in interests that are against the republic, they are removed from office and put in jail as enemies of the people.  This would land virtually every single Democrat and Republican in jail for the exchange of money for political favours or the complicity thereof via witnessing but not acting.  This is constitutional as legal bribery.

This also exists in the Canadian government provincially, federally, and municipally.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on October 30, 2020, 12:38:36 pm
Only a fear shared by TDSers.

He's said as much.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 30, 2020, 01:24:16 pm
Anyone who supports Trump or Biden is an absolute imbecile who is complicit in their support for destroying America.  Unfortunately, most Americans are imbeciles.  They're being outfoxed by corporations in service of profits at the expense of the USA.

What needs to happen is not to have politicians swear to defend the constitution, but swear an allegiance to the flag, and to the republic for which it stands.  And when a politician acts in interests that are against the republic, they are removed from office and put in jail as enemies of the people.  This would land virtually every single Democrat and Republican in jail for the exchange of money for political favours or the complicity thereof via witnessing but not acting.  This is constitutional as legal bribery.

This also exists in the Canadian government provincially, federally, and municipally.

Good one! It's never tiring to hear it framed correctly.
I would just add that somehow the parliamentary system is working and their system can't work. Their president isn't their god!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on October 30, 2020, 01:41:37 pm
Anyone who supports Trump or Biden is an absolute imbecile who is complicit in their support for destroying America.  Unfortunately, most Americans are imbeciles.  They're being outfoxed by corporations in service of profits at the expense of the USA....


...This also exists in the Canadian government provincially, federally, and municipally.

Good one! It's never tiring to hear it framed correctly.
Actually it is tiresome because very few people seem to want to do anything about it. To be fair human beings have had little choice but to put up with this because the concept of placing flies on the walls was simply a wishful notion.

Now we have the audio and visual technology to turn this concept into reality - in fact it's been on the shelf for decades. How many more decades before we use it is anyone's guess but I'm not holding my breath.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 30, 2020, 02:04:12 pm
Actually it is tiresome because very few people seem to want to do anything about it. To be fair human beings have had little choice but to put up with this because the concept of placing flies on the walls was simply a wishful notion.

Now we have the audio and visual technology to turn this concept into reality - in fact it's been on the shelf for decades. How many more decades before we use it is anyone's guess but I'm not holding my breath.

I try to relate to your comments but I can't if you aren't going to acknowledge the difference in the US failed system against the progressive governments of the most successful democracies in the world. Perhaps you did but didn't make it clear?

Take Norway for instance and their prison system. It's just exactly the opposite of the world's gretest failulre!
And Canada is doing pretty good too because we've held at #1 on 'quality of life' for 4 years running!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on October 30, 2020, 03:35:42 pm
I try to relate to your comments but I can't if you aren't going to acknowledge the difference in the US failed system against the progressive governments of the most successful democracies in the world. Perhaps you did but didn't make it clear? Take Norway for instance and their prison system. It's just exactly the opposite of the world's gretest failulre!

And Canada is doing pretty good too because we've held at #1 on 'quality of life' for 4 years running!
There are certainly differences due to size and scale in the governance of different countries but the lack of transparency in human governance is universal - I have zero tolerance for any lack thereof and regard it with the same un-abiding loathing.  It's starkly black and white with zero shades of grey in between.

That's how to relate to my comments when it comes to governance.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 30, 2020, 04:59:40 pm
Interesting read!
People Are Going To Be Shocked’: Return of the ‘Shy’ Trump Voter?

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/29/2020-polls-trump-biden-prediction-accurate-2016-433619
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 30, 2020, 05:09:32 pm
It's true. It's extremely close. You are correct to say Dens can't be complacent. Thanks for the pep talk.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 30, 2020, 06:11:15 pm
There is no such thing as voter suppression.  As long as ballots follow the law.  They won’t be disqualified.  Laws matter.  Despite what Democrats think.  IDs are needed.  Signatures have to match.  You know, little things like that.

When jurisdictions go our of their way to make it difficult to even cast a vote, that is voter suppression.

The US seems unique among developed democracies in that they actually spend time dreaming up ways to make voting harder for certain communities.
America is about to show the world whether it is still capable of holding a legitimate election. There is a lot more on the line than just who wins.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 30, 2020, 08:49:12 pm
Trump says doctors are inflating COVID numbers because they get $2000 when someone dies.

Who is stupid enough (other than Shady) to believe such stupid ****?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 30, 2020, 09:21:27 pm
Good time to peak
(https://i.imgur.com/GhzDZ01.png)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 30, 2020, 10:52:58 pm
Trump says doctors are inflating COVID numbers because they get $2000 when someone dies.

Who is stupid enough (other than Shady) to believe such stupid ****?

There are a good number of his supporters who believe anything that comes out of his mouth.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 31, 2020, 09:04:50 am
Super Spreader USA --- Monster Covid Fest! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1322313619711746048/pu/vid/1280x720/rdalIfHChd_C8r2M.mp4?tag=10)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 31, 2020, 12:20:53 pm
Super Spreader USA --- Monster Covid Fest! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1322313619711746048/pu/vid/1280x720/rdalIfHChd_C8r2M.mp4?tag=10)

Turning it into a joke is as good as any strategy now that they're so close to their election.

And it looks like the death count is already heavy for today.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

The last week has to be considered satisfactory for their Biden supporters, even though there has to be disappointment that the 2000 count will be late.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 31, 2020, 12:44:16 pm
Turning it into a joke is as good as any strategy now that they're so close to their election.

And it looks like the death count is already heavy for today.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

The last week has to be considered satisfactory for their Biden supporters, even though there has to be disappointment that the 2000 count will be late.

Only an idiot would think that Democrats are happy about COVID deaths. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 31, 2020, 12:51:46 pm
Only an idiot would think that Democrats are happy about COVID deaths.

Are you taking into consideration that the Covid deaths are fairly insignificant squid? In fact, have you been one of those who argue that point?
If the Dems and their supporters are of similar mind then there's really no reason why their priorities before the election wouldn't be mostly politics.

If you're going to suggest that I'm an idiot, you're going to need to have the credibility to make it stick.

I would suggest that you have to get your head out of US political bias for a start. If you can do that then you gain a lot of freedom to understand more clearly.

We'll have to talk again after their election squid. Say about a couple of weeks after.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on October 31, 2020, 01:30:59 pm
Are you taking into consideration that the Covid deaths are fairly insignificant squid? In fact, have you been one of those who argue that point?
If the Dems and their supporters are of similar mind then there's really no reason why their priorities before the election wouldn't be mostly politics.

If you're going to suggest that I'm an idiot, you're going to need to have the credibility to make it stick.

I would suggest that you have to get your head out of US political bias for a start. If you can do that then you gain a lot of freedom to understand more clearly.

We'll have to talk again after their election squid. Say about a couple of weeks after.

Deaths are "insignificant"? How trumpian is that! A clear understanding is very likely what gives the Squid his anti trump "bias". I certainly believe it drives mine.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 31, 2020, 03:04:08 pm
Trump endorsed by two rich old white guys, Jack Nicklaus and Bobby Orr.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 31, 2020, 03:09:44 pm
I can't see their endorsement making anyone vote for Trump but I can see it making people think less of them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 31, 2020, 03:37:47 pm
I can't see their endorsement making anyone vote for Trump but I can see it making people think less of them.

Nicklaus endorsed Tump in 2016 as well. He hasn't learned anything since then.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 31, 2020, 04:30:23 pm
Are you taking into consideration that the Covid deaths are fairly insignificant squid? In fact, have you been one of those who argue that point?
If the Dems and their supporters are of similar mind then there's really no reason why their priorities before the election wouldn't be mostly politics.

No, COVID deaths are not "insignificant". 

No, I've never said that.

Quote
If you're going to suggest that I'm an idiot, you're going to need to have the credibility to make it stick.

I would suggest that you have to get your head out of US political bias for a start. If you can do that then you gain a lot of freedom to understand more clearly.

I am suggesting that anyone who thinks Democrats are happy with COVID death numbers is a complete **** idiot.  Is that you?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 31, 2020, 07:05:42 pm
Bobby Orr is a complete moron IMO.  He just tarnished his legacy for exactly nothing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 31, 2020, 07:33:04 pm
Trumpy's lament: 'I could have been a contender (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1322587212035223557/pu/vid/1280x720/nUlxsqhlVBn99Zc7.mp4?tag=10)'

so down, so forlorn! ... he must have just seen internal polling and realizes he's toast!  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 31, 2020, 11:18:00 pm
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/10/31/trump-train-swarms-biden-bus-texas-event-canceled/6110370002/


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Els24zzXgAAZKxV?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on November 01, 2020, 08:40:15 am
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/10/31/trump-train-swarms-biden-bus-texas-event-canceled/6110370002/


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Els24zzXgAAZKxV?format=jpg&name=large)
Now do destroying statues!  LOOOOL!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 01, 2020, 11:42:08 am
1000 deaths per day is only .0003% of their total population, in fairness to Trump.
And 250,000 deaths is only .076% of them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 01, 2020, 12:54:31 pm
1000 deaths per day is only .0003% of their total population, in fairness to Trump.
And 250,000 deaths is only .076% of them.

At that rate by May the US will have had more covid deaths than in all of WW2.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 01, 2020, 05:12:39 pm
So a group of your typical trump supporter nitwits tries to run a Biden campaign bus off the interstate in Texas. Donny of course tries to sluff it off by trying to make a joke saying how his people were "helping Sleepy Joe's bus" or some typical childish bullshit. The FBI is investigating and hopefully they will be able to file charges. Of course putting a busload of people lives at risk to try and swipe a few votes is certainly well within the trump regima.

https://www.wonkette.com/psychotic-armed-trump-supporters-thwart-biden-event-in-texas
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 01, 2020, 06:53:36 pm
Scumbag Republicans try some more voters suppression...   court denies it this time.   Another hearing on Monday by more scumbag Republicans.

https://www.statesman.com/news/20201101/texas-court-rejects-bid-to-toss-127000-harris-county-votes-but-fight-isnrsquot-over?template=ampart

Quote
The Texas Supreme Court on Sunday rejected, without comment, a bid by three Republican candidates and a GOP activist to toss out almost 127,000 votes cast in drive-thru lanes in the emerging Democratic stronghold of Harris County.

The votes, however, are not yet safe to count after polls close Tuesday night.

A federal judge will hold an emergency hearing Monday morning — less than 21 hours before polls open on Election Day — to hear arguments on a similar challenge filed by the same group of Republicans, who argue that state law prohibits drive-thru voting, so every vote cast from cars during the early voting period should be tossed out as illegal.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 01, 2020, 10:26:28 pm
You three sound like you have something invested in their election. What could that be that could play negatively for Canada if either of them lose?

Trump is probably the best bet for US foreign policy that effects the rest of the world. Undoubtedly the best prospect for peaceful relations with Russia and that's very important.

A Trump win will give him the incentive to flaunt his good relations with Putin/Russia. Also more positive on China because he's far more interested in successful trade relations than he's interested in keeping American jobs in the country.

It's just so comforting to not give a fk and just be able to watch Trump destroy his evil empire!

As opposed to Biden who will just allow it to continue to be destroyed by the establishment American way.

Relax and enjoy it while you can kids! They're still miles away from waking up and starting to demand decent government!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 01, 2020, 11:07:49 pm
You three sound like you have something invested in their election. What could that be that could play negatively for Canada if either of them lose?

Trump is probably the best bet for US foreign policy that effects the rest of the world. Undoubtedly the best prospect for peaceful relations with Russia and that's very important.

A Trump win will give him the incentive to flaunt his good relations with Putin/Russia. Also more positive on China because he's far more interested in successful trade relations than he's interested in keeping American jobs in the country.

It's just so comforting to not give a fk and just be able to watch Trump destroy his evil empire!

As opposed to Biden who will just allow it to continue to be destroyed by the establishment American way.

Relax and enjoy it while you can kids! They're still miles away from waking up and starting to demand decent government!

Um no, they're actually 2 days away. Let's hope they get it right.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 02, 2020, 10:14:22 am
Um no, they're actually 2 days away. Let's hope they get it right.

They got it wrong when they passed up Bernie and Elizabeth for fear of the redbaiting.
You still don't understand why they chose Trump the psychopath in the first place.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on November 02, 2020, 02:43:41 pm
Democrat officials voting for Trump in Pennsylvania!

https://twitter.com/byronyork/status/1323236848223899649?s=21
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 02, 2020, 02:56:27 pm
They got it wrong when they passed up Bernie and Elizabeth for fear of the redbaiting.
You still don't understand why they chose Trump the psychopath in the first place.

The "they" overall didn't choose Trump, he was ushered in by the EC. The "they" who did vote for him I think misinterpreted him as someone who was going to reshape the establishment more to their favor. Well, I'm sure even they see how poorly that turned out. Apparently he now has a plan to storm swing states with lawyers tomorrow night after polls close. I'm sure it willl be an interesting night.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 02, 2020, 03:31:48 pm
The "they" overall didn't choose Trump, he was ushered in by the EC. The "they" who did vote for him I think misinterpreted him as someone who was going to reshape the establishment more to their favor. Well, I'm sure even they see how poorly that turned out. Apparently he now has a plan to storm swing states with lawyers tomorrow night after polls close. I'm sure it willl be an interesting night.

Just interested to know what your EC means?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 02, 2020, 04:08:26 pm
Just interested to know what your EC means?

Stands for Electoral College. It's who actually elects the POTUS.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 02, 2020, 04:36:47 pm
Democrat officials voting for Trump in Pennsylvania!

https://twitter.com/byronyork/status/1323236848223899649?s=21

Ah yes...  the old anecdotal “I know lots of Trump-tards who are hiding under the beds and will come out in time to vote”. 

 ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on November 02, 2020, 05:23:39 pm
Ah yes...  the old anecdotal “I know lots of Trump-tards who are hiding under the beds and will come out in time to vote”. 

 ;D
I just figured you guys should hear at least a little differing information.  I know you’re really used to this echo chamber though.  Regardless, autoworkers are also choosing Trump,

https://youtu.be/Ylm_zAAKd2k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 02, 2020, 05:35:16 pm
uhhh... member Shady! LockHimUp!!!

it seems your boy is really worried... grieving even! (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/02/us/politics/trump-campaign.html)  ;D

Quote
Seldom far from Mr. Trump’s thoughts, however, is the possibility of defeat — and the potential consequences of being ejected from the White House.

In unguarded moments, Mr. Trump has for weeks told advisers that he expects to face intensifying scrutiny from prosecutors if he loses. He is concerned not only about existing investigations in New York, but the potential for new federal probes as well, according to people who have spoken with him.

While Mr. Trump has not aired those worries in the open, he has railed against the democratic process, raising baseless doubts about the integrity of the vote and suggesting ways of undermining an election that appeared to be going against him, including interference by the Supreme Court.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on November 02, 2020, 06:16:14 pm
uhhh... member Shady! LockHimUp!!!

it seems your boy is really worried... grieving even! (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/02/us/politics/trump-campaign.html)  ;D
Nice propaganda.  The New York Times has no idea what Trump is thinking.  However, Biden’s mind is probably a hamster on a wheel running!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 02, 2020, 06:46:56 pm
Stands for Electoral College. It's who actually elects the POTUS.

No wonder the EC didn't make any sense in that context.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 03, 2020, 04:34:12 pm
Trumpy, the Closer! (https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1323298431088107520/vid/1280x720/ko9kWFOoAhotnGb5.mp4?tag=13) ... jeejaz, an actual Trump-Pence ad!  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 04, 2020, 02:02:48 am
Trump once again comes out to demonstrate what a creepy little **** **** he is. This time a few moments ago by stepping from the WH to suggest all the ballot counting beyond this nights should be stopped, and that he has declared himself the winner, which is far from determined. What a useless prick he is!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on November 04, 2020, 07:45:06 am
I gotta hear the legal argument to have votes stop being counted.

Since voting is ongoing, they'd have to pick some arbitrary time that the votes that were being counted were fraudulent.

This has to be just to foment rage from the MAGA nation. There's no legal case to be made.

Now if votes in Pennsylvania keep streaming in on Friday, then maybe they have a vase.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 04, 2020, 10:47:34 am
Such emotion by Canadians?

Relax, it's turning into the long predicted questioned outcome that can only be decided with their guns. Trump declares victory and then it's snatched away from him by the cheating cheater commies.
Dog blus murica.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on November 04, 2020, 10:52:27 am
Such emotion by Canadians?

Relax, it's turning into the long predicted questioned outcome that can only be decided with their guns. Trump declares victory and then it's snatched away from him by the cheating cheater commies.
Dog blus murica.

Trump is a threat to the Developed World. How do you deal with a country that chooses such a man to lead them, TWICE!

His declaration of victory while votes were being counted is indicative of his authoritarian bent.

But, above all, it's entertaining.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 04, 2020, 11:06:57 am
Trump is a threat to the Developed World. How do you deal with a country that chooses such a man to lead them, TWICE!

 

Simply put - any country that engages in deals with the US will require more assurances, in the way of clauses, penalties, what have you before commiting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 04, 2020, 11:22:53 am
Simply put - any country that engages in deals with the US will require more assurances, in the way of clauses, penalties, what have you before committing.

Right, and that's a good thing as the large and powerful nations start the fight for the world's resources. Chiina by peaceful methods and the US by severely limited military action due to M.A.D.

Begin to accept that Trump is only a symptom of that evil empire.

A Biden win can result in Canadians gaining confidence that the worst is true about America. A Trump win will steal confidence from Canadians who are just beginning to understand that there's no 'better' candidate winning.

For that reason alone we can accept a Trump win as putting the fall of empire into high gear.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 04, 2020, 11:40:48 am
I gotta hear the legal argument to have votes stop being counted.

Since voting is ongoing, they'd have to pick some arbitrary time that the votes that were being counted were fraudulent.

This has to be just to foment rage from the MAGA nation. There's no legal case to be made.

Now if votes in Pennsylvania keep streaming in on Friday, then maybe they have a vase.

The only legal case would be for mail-in ballots that arrived late.

Trump said what he did because he knew he was effed when the mail-ins began to be counted.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 04, 2020, 12:03:30 pm
It's over for Trump by the looks of it now.
But there are at least 6 really entertaining stories posted at RT.com.

And anyone who has a look doesn't have to admit they did!

One the least interesting and entertaining is that Trump is demanding a recount for Wisconsin.

Recounting could become one of Trump's main methods of changing the results. Not by a legitimate recount awarding a state to him but by some other illegal actions by Trump's team. There's little doubt that Trump's team will have more than on trick up their sleeves.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 04, 2020, 12:13:37 pm
The only legal case would be for mail-in ballots that arrived late.

Trump said what he did because he knew he was effed when the mail-ins began to be counted.

Except that’s not what happened in Bush v Gore. It’s not about late ballots. It’s about ballots that were legally cast not being counted.  There is bizarre opinions from the judiciary that has stopped counting legal ballots.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 04, 2020, 12:24:18 pm
If Biden continues to hold Michigan, Wisconsin, Nevada and Arizona, he's in. Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 04, 2020, 12:31:27 pm
If Biden continues to hold Michigan, Wisconsin, Nevada and Arizona, he's in. Fingers crossed.

This is the good news, if it happens.

The bad news is that Shady had the best prediction...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on November 04, 2020, 12:33:46 pm
This is the good news, if it happens.

The bad news is that Shady had the best prediction...

Some good analysis I've heard about that is that some MAGAheads probably won't even talk to a pollster. It's less about the Shy Trump voter and more about the Trump Voter that doesn't even want to talk to a Pollster.

So his support will always be underestimated.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 04, 2020, 01:17:54 pm
Some good analysis I've heard about that is that some MAGAheads probably won't even talk to a pollster. It's less about the Shy Trump voter and more about the Trump Voter that doesn't even want to talk to a Pollster.

So his support will always be underestimated.

I was thinking about this possibility however they worked out the numbers in 2016 and accounted for the missing Trumpers.

This is like NASA in the 50s at this point.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on November 04, 2020, 07:17:05 pm
This is the good news, if it happens.

The bad news is that Shady had the best prediction...

Hey, whatever happened to that virus pandemic thingy?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 04, 2020, 07:21:18 pm
Hey, whatever happened to that virus pandemic thingy?

Trump said it would go away in the sunshine... I didn't realize he meant when he was gone...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 04, 2020, 07:46:10 pm
Hey, whatever happened to that virus pandemic thingy?

It's still there, 94,000 new cases and 1,187 deaths yesterday. 106,000 new cases and 1200 deaths yesterday.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Dia on November 04, 2020, 08:34:02 pm
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 04, 2020, 08:36:05 pm
Amurica, where politicians go out of their way to prevent you from voting and when that fails, they do their best to invalidate your ballot. What a horror show of a country.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 05, 2020, 11:51:45 am
They can't pretend they haven't arrived at some new numbers in the last 12 hours. This is beginning to look suspiciously as if they're afraid of what will happen when it's clear that one of them has won.
Especially so if Biden is the winner.

Emotions have been stoked to the boiling point, even more than when they are getting ready to go to war or bomb some small country.

Anything can happen now and we just have to hope that it doesn't spread to outside their borders!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 05, 2020, 11:56:02 am
They can't pretend they haven't arrived at some new numbers in the last 12 hours. This is beginning to look suspiciously as if they're afraid of what will happen when it's clear that one of them has won.
Especially so if Biden is the winner.

Emotions have been stoked to the boiling point, even more than when they are getting ready to go to war or bomb some small country.

Anything can happen now and we just have to hope that it doesn't spread to outside their borders!

You’re repeating the same thing across different posts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 05, 2020, 12:16:26 pm
You’re repeating the same thing across different posts.

Thanks for letting me know. What do you suggest we do about that?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 05, 2020, 01:25:44 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/BV2lDWw.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on November 05, 2020, 09:13:52 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/BV2lDWw.png)

One - ah, ah, ah
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 05, 2020, 09:55:51 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/BV2lDWw.png)

He truly is a human piece of ****.  His plan is to challenge things right up to the SCOTUS, which he thinks will vote in favour of him.  All part of his masterplan.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on November 05, 2020, 10:59:50 pm
They can't pretend they haven't arrived at some new numbers in the last 12 hours. This is beginning to look suspiciously as if they're afraid of what will happen when it's clear that one of them has won.

They're still counting in many states that have been called too.  The only difference is whether the counting can make a difference or not.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 05, 2020, 11:22:33 pm
These people are attempting to foment armed rebellion.  MAGA Brownshirts and Blackshirts are planning literal violence if the Mango Mussolini doesn't get his way, and he is egging them on.

Oh yeah. Remember Steve Bannon, former Breitbart head and Donald Trump's "Chief Strategist"?  Here's what he's been up to:
Quote
Twitter permanently suspended an account belonging to former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon after he suggested Thursday morning that Dr. Anthony Fauci and FBI Director Christopher Wray should be beheaded. His comments were made in a video posted to his Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter accounts.
Bannon falsely claimed President Trump had won reelection, despite several key states still being too close to call, and said that he should fire both Fauci and Wray.
He then said he would go further: "I'd put the heads on pikes. Right. I'd put them at the two corners of the White House as a warning to federal bureaucrats. You either get with the program or you are gone."

This is a fascist.  Not in the hyperbolic sense of the word that triggered snowflakes throw around, but in the literal sense of the word, the kind of people that our grandfathers went to Europe to kill with bullets and bayonets 80 years ago. And if somebody gets made an example of, I hope it's Bannon.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 05, 2020, 11:34:41 pm
These people are attempting to foment armed rebellion.  MAGA Brownshirts and Blackshirts are planning literal violence if the Mango Mussolini doesn't get his way, and he is egging them on.

Oh yeah. Remember Steve Bannon, former Breitbart head and Donald Trump's "Chief Strategist"?  Here's what he's been up to:

Quote
Twitter permanently suspended an account belonging to former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon after he suggested Thursday morning that Dr. Anthony Fauci and FBI Director Christopher Wray should be beheaded. His comments were made in a video posted to his Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter accounts.
Bannon falsely claimed President Trump had won reelection, despite several key states still being too close to call, and said that he should fire both Fauci and Wray.
He then said he would go further: "I'd put the heads on pikes. Right. I'd put them at the two corners of the White House as a warning to federal bureaucrats. You either get with the program or you are gone."

This is a fascist.  Not in the hyperbolic sense of the word that triggered snowflakes throw around, but in the literal sense of the word, the kind of people that our grandfathers went to Europe to kill with bullets and bayonets 80 years ago. And if somebody gets made an example of, I hope it's Bannon.

hobo Steve... Fauci/Wray heads on pikes! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1324471474896445442/pu/vid/1272x720/IkJnjTZ-3_ukq0rz.mp4?tag=10)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on November 06, 2020, 10:26:35 am
This is a fascist.  Not in the hyperbolic sense of the word that triggered snowflakes throw around, but in the literal sense of the word, the kind of people that our grandfathers went to Europe to kill with bullets and bayonets 80 years ago. And if somebody gets made an example of, I hope it's Bannon.

 -k
What about the common sense that even reasonable Republicans subscribe to that declares America is on the verge of falling to radical extreme socialists, how do you get around the need for bullets and bayonets to save it?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 06, 2020, 10:52:25 am
Still stuck with the same EC number they had on election day?

It looks like they're afraid to release the results that would make a Biden win.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 06, 2020, 11:29:09 am
(https://i.imgur.com/Td5qRlf.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 06, 2020, 11:30:44 am
Still stuck with the same EC number they had on election day?

It looks like they're afraid to release the results that would make a Biden win.

What’s more likely.... 

A grand conspiracy to keep the results from people for absolutely no purpose whatsoever (they will have to release the results at some point, right?  Or do you think they will keep them secret for the next 4 years or so?

OR;

Vote counting is slow for various reasons that have nothing to do with a conspiracy. 


Your conspiracy theory thinking is idiotic.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 06, 2020, 11:32:39 am
(https://i.imgur.com/Td5qRlf.png)

Trump will not need to run and hide.   He will be pardoned, if not by Biden, then Biden’s predecessor.  They don’t allow presidents to be in prison down there for whatever stupid reason.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 06, 2020, 11:41:52 am
Still stuck with the same EC number they had on election day?

It looks like they're afraid to release the results that would make a Biden win.

The EC numbers certainly have changed since election day and recently released results put Biden on the very verge of a win. He is now winning in PA for instance and if that single state holds Biden's in the WH.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 06, 2020, 11:51:16 am
Still stuck with the same EC number they had on election day?

It looks like they're afraid to release the results that would make a Biden win.

They don't want to call states that are close. They weren't calling them when Trump was leading.
Some states are so close, automatic recounts will be triggered. Stay tuned.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 06, 2020, 11:55:06 am
They don't want to call states that are close. They weren't calling them when Trump was leading.
Some states are so close, automatic recounts will be triggered. Stay tuned.

And other states that weren’t close are still counting ballots.  We just don’t hear about them because they’re not close.

California has only counted 77% of the votes cast so far.

I made that bigly font in the hope that the dummies who like to believe conspiracies will see it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on November 06, 2020, 12:00:40 pm
And other states that weren’t close are still counting ballots.  We just don’t hear about them because they’re not close.

California has only counted 77% of the votes cast so far.

I made that bigly font in the hope that the dummies who like to believe conspiracies will see it.

Election Day Projections are just for the News outlets. With the volume of Mail-In votes, there was no way all the ballots would be counted on November 3rd.

Alaska is still like 50% reported, but no one expects a majority of the remaining ballots to be for Biden.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 06, 2020, 12:04:37 pm
And other states that weren’t close are still counting ballots.  We just don’t hear about them because they’re not close.

California has only counted 77% of the votes cast so far.

I made that bigly font in the hope that the dummies who like to believe conspiracies will see it.

It takes a lot of faith in the US system to believe that they can't release results before the 6th. of November.  They do however have a unique excuse for each of the remaining states in contention. Good enough for the lemmings until the military's strategic positions are established.

When the number reaches 270, there are good reasons to believe that Trump will order his extremists into taking action.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on November 06, 2020, 12:09:53 pm
It takes a lot of faith in the US system to believe that they can't release results before the 6th. of November.  They do however have a unique excuse for each of the remaining states in contention. Good enough for the lemmings until the military's strategic positions are established.

When the number reaches 270, there are good reasons to believe that Trump will order his extremists into taking action.

What about states that have already projected a winner? We only take notice when race is closer.

Election Day Projections are exactly that, projections.

With the mail-in votes legislators didn't allow the votes to be counted as received. That explains these "ballot dumps". They weren't allowed to count them until after the November 3rd votes were counted.

It was predicted. There'd be a Red Mirage on November 3rd.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 06, 2020, 12:32:50 pm
Looks like they've just floated a trial balloon with Biden taking the lead in PA.
That could do it with the Trump billies!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 06, 2020, 12:35:00 pm
It takes a lot of faith in the US system to believe that they can't release results before the 6th. of November.  They do however have a unique excuse for each of the remaining states in contention. Good enough for the lemmings until the military's strategic positions are established.

When the number reaches 270, there are good reasons to believe that Trump will order his extremists into taking action.

In BC the mail in ballots aren't counted until 13 days after the election. No one is complaining or crying fraud.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 06, 2020, 12:35:34 pm
It takes a lot of faith in the US system to believe that they can't release results before the 6th. of November.  They do however have a unique excuse for each of the remaining states in contention. Good enough for the lemmings until the military's strategic positions are established.

When the number reaches 270, there are good reasons to believe that Trump will order his extremists into taking action.

Facts and logic really do not resonate with you, does it? 

You prefer to go with the conspiracy theory nonsense. 

Even when they do call a state, instead of convincing you that you’re wrong, you see it as a “trial balloon” that feeds into your conspiracy.
 ::)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 06, 2020, 12:36:32 pm
In BC the mail in ballots aren't counted until 13 days after the election. No one is complaining or crying fraud.

Whoah!!  Don’t tell him that!!  His head will explode!  A new conspiracy is born!!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 06, 2020, 12:43:09 pm
In BC the mail in ballots aren't counted until 13 days after the election. No one is complaining or crying fraud.

It's not B.C. wilbur and there was no holdup on the decision. What they're almost certainly doing is holding back conclusive numbers that clinch it for Biden. But that's beginning to happen right now with the PA trial balloon.

This is a very delicate situation in that country, with the possibility of many lives lost in a hail of lead.

We should be able to enjoy it together!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 06, 2020, 12:43:55 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/S7yxx94.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 06, 2020, 12:53:27 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/S7yxx94.png)

I would say that it's quite a bit deeper than just that Waldo. Putin will know that Trump is a psychopath and also know that a psychopath can never accept defeat.

It's the consequences of him not going down peaceably that promise such great potential.

Interesting situation in which Trump has already incited violence and will likely try again. What does that country do with a president that is about to cause such great harm. His militias will do what he suggests!

Arrest him? Is that possible?

A more permanent solution to the Trump problem by resorting to desperate measures to silence him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 06, 2020, 01:16:36 pm
Interesting situation in which Trump has already incited violence and will likely try again. What does that country do with a president that is about to cause such great harm. His militias will do what he suggests!

baby steps... but a few governing Republicans are beginning to show some snout! (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/getting-insane-republicans-push-back-against-trump-s-false-election-n1246700)

U.S. Secret Service will take charge to rein in Trump's (further) attempts to incite violence... clearly there are implications to the safety of Biden/Harris.

in any case, I'm struggling to remember the name of the son of a well known former U.S. military general... the son himself a former decorated combat veteran now holding strong liberal public positions --- advising right-wing militia-types to not confuse liberalism with pacifism!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 06, 2020, 01:24:50 pm
It's not B.C. wilbur and there was no holdup on the decision. What they're almost certainly doing is holding back conclusive numbers that clinch it for Biden. But that's beginning to happen right now with the PA trial balloon.

This is a very delicate situation in that country, with the possibility of many lives lost in a hail of lead.

We should be able to enjoy it together!

Results are coming out by the hour, they aren't holding up anything. Maybe they should hold them back until the counts are complete.

There was no hold up because the majority was clear but almost half a million votes were done by mail and they will make a difference in some close ridings. I live in one that separates the two leaders by 188 votes. The mail in ballot could easily change that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 06, 2020, 01:30:07 pm
Results are coming out by the hour, they aren't holding up anything. Maybe they should hold them back until the counts are complete.

There was no hold up because the majority was clear but almost half a million votes were done by mail and they will make a difference in some close ridings. I live in one that separates the two leaders by 188 votes. The mail in ballot could easily change that.

This has been explained to Montgomery multiple times in multiple threads.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 06, 2020, 01:33:40 pm
baby steps... but a few governing Republicans are beginning to show some snout! (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/getting-insane-republicans-push-back-against-trump-s-false-election-n1246700)

U.S. Secret Service will take charge to rein in Trump's (further) attempts to incite violence... clearly there are implications to the safety of Biden/Harris.

in any case, I'm struggling to remember the name of the son of a well known former U.S. military general... the son himself a former decorated combat veteran now holding strong liberal public positions --- advising right-wing militia-types to not confuse liberalism with pacifism!

They'll turn away from Trump pretty quickly now that they see he's finished. Mostly because they  will scurry like rats to begin to take a sensible way forward for the rightist agenda.

Can the Secret Service rein in Trump? What does that mean? A SS agent in Trump's office with a gun pointed at Trump's head? I know that's thinking of desperate measures but I can't envision any other way unless Trump buckles and finally accepts defeat?

But he's a psychopath and he can't do that!

Whatever? Our celebrations should include the possibilities of how Trump does down. We deserve the pleasure!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 06, 2020, 01:35:52 pm
Nevada propagandists have just released another trial balloon.

https://www.msnbc.com/craig-melvin/watch/latest-nevada-vote-count-shows-biden-doubling-state-lead-95452741869

Note how they have broke with their established performance of releasing 50,000 at a time to releasing 30,000.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 06, 2020, 01:37:30 pm
Nevada propagandists have just released another trial balloon.

https://www.msnbc.com/craig-melvin/watch/latest-nevada-vote-count-shows-biden-doubling-state-lead-95452741869

Note how they have broke with their established performance of releasing 50,000 at a time to releasing 30,000.

Who are these “propagandists”?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 06, 2020, 01:40:41 pm
Nevada propagandists have just released another trial balloon.

https://www.msnbc.com/craig-melvin/watch/latest-nevada-vote-count-shows-biden-doubling-state-lead-95452741869

Note how they have broke with their established performance of releasing 50,000 at a time to releasing 30,000.

What's your problem? The votes are the votes. Who cares as long as they are all counted.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 06, 2020, 01:58:52 pm
For my little audience i've been able to attract.

Widespread violence and murder hang in the balance. The slow release of the facts is the only way to possibly defuse all the pent up hate by the militias and the newly revitalized Klan covens.

Trump could call a news conference any minute now!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on November 06, 2020, 02:10:03 pm
It's the consequences of him not going down peaceably that promise such great potential.

A more permanent solution to the Trump problem by resorting to desperate measures to silence him.

I think one potential consequence will be to split the conservative vote. Republican politicians are not exactly coming out in enthusiastic droves to support Trump's resistance to losing - something Trump's son's are already blasting them for. I could see this resulting in the hardest core of Trump's base deciding the tide is rising again in the swamp and following a new and improved Trumpian populist in 2024 perhaps one of Trumps son's.  This split could even begin manifesting in 2022 US elections.

This could produce a more durable solution to the Republican problem.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 06, 2020, 02:18:19 pm
For my little audience i've been able to attract.

Widespread violence and murder hang in the balance. The slow release of the facts is the only way to possibly defuse all the pent up hate by the militias and the newly revitalized Klan covens.

Trump could call a news conference any minute now!

Sounds like you can't wait for it to start.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 06, 2020, 02:24:47 pm
I think one potential consequence will be to split the conservative vote. Republican politicians are not exactly coming out in enthusiastic droves to support Trump's resistance to losing - something Trump's son's are already blasting them for. I could see this resulting in the hardest core of Trump's base deciding the tide is rising again in the swamp and following a new and improved Trumpian populist in 2024 perhaps one of Trumps son's.  This split could even begin manifesting in 2022 US elections.

This could produce a more durable solution to the Republican problem.

It was always easily understood that Repub politicians would quickly abandon the Trump sinking ship. Many of them do posess a shred of decency and didn't want to be forced into declaring support for Trump. Now that the facts of life are imminent on Trump's defeat, they will abandon ship in droves, while still having to put up a brave front for the future of their elections.

However, there is a pretty big faction of extremists such as the teabaggers who will not accept defeat. That represents great hope that when they get out the guns, the state will be forced into eliminating large bands of them with the final solution.

I suggest that many of the harder core aren't going to drop their AR-15's when told to give up the fight.

As to Trump's sons keeping the fight alive? Not a chance in my opinion. They have no political appeal at all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on November 06, 2020, 02:25:29 pm
I think one potential consequence will be to split the conservative vote. Republican politicians are not exactly coming out in enthusiastic droves to support Trump's resistance to losing - something Trump's son's are already blasting them for. I could see this resulting in the hardest core of Trump's base deciding the tide is rising again in the swamp and following a new and improved Trumpian populist in 2024 perhaps one of Trumps son's.  This split could even begin manifesting in 2022 US elections.

This could produce a more durable solution to the Republican problem.

Team Lincoln Project!

Too be fair, the same divide happens with the more Progressive wing of the Democrats and the Moderates. You could argue that's what got Trump elected in the first place.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on November 06, 2020, 02:41:54 pm
Team Lincoln Project!

Too be fair, the same divide happens with the more Progressive wing of the Democrats and the Moderates. You could argue that's what got Trump elected in the first place.

Trump has the support of something like 93% of Republicans.  Bernie 2016 (and to a degree 'The Squad' today) are a much smaller faction of the Democrats.

IOW, sane Republicans are an anomaly and progressive democrats who have 'radical' ideas like Universal Healthcare are the fringe. 

The country is a hot mess.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on November 06, 2020, 02:43:19 pm
Too be fair, the same divide happens with the more Progressive wing of the Democrats and the Moderates.
Probably worth hoping for as well!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 06, 2020, 03:03:02 pm
Trump has the support of something like 93% of Republicans.  Bernie 2016 (and to a degree 'The Squad' today) are a much smaller faction of the Democrats.

IOW, sane Republicans are an anomaly and progressive democrats who have 'radical' ideas like Universal Healthcare are the fringe. 

The country is a hot mess.

Are you failing to consider that most of Trump's supporters are going to find it easy to accept healthcare reform? They've always had it as one of their priorities, believing that it would happen under Trump. They never did resign themselves to the fact that Trump could never deliver. That would have meant a complete defeat of big insurance companies being brought about by Trump. Not possible in the least!

Nearly all Repubs will now be forced into coming back to reality. Reality is that they need healthcare for their country.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on November 06, 2020, 05:18:59 pm
Are you failing to consider that most of Trump's supporters are going to find it easy to accept healthcare reform? They've always had it as one of their priorities, believing that it would happen under Trump. They never did resign themselves to the fact that Trump could never deliver. That would have meant a complete defeat of big insurance companies being brought about by Trump. Not possible in the least!

Nearly all Repubs will now be forced into coming back to reality. Reality is that they need healthcare for their country.

No Republican that I'm aware of is for single payer insurance (Medicaid for All).

Obviously they have differing opinions, but generally speaking, their constituents are against 'socialist' healthcare and prefer privatized universal coverage.

We could now debate the benefits of universal private insurance vs. government provided, but it's besides the point I'm making. 

Government funded healthcare is not a radical idea, yet only a small portion of Democrats are for it.  1/3 if we presume the support Bernie was getting during the primaries. 

Americans are just a right-wing nation.  Even their liberals are more fiscally right-wing that our CPC.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 07, 2020, 11:53:27 am
When does not conceding victory turn into an attempted coup?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 07, 2020, 12:21:26 pm
I wonder if learning he'd lost the election affected this am's golf game for Donny.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 07, 2020, 01:17:41 pm
I wonder if learning he'd lost the election affected this am's golf game for Donny.
You mean he might have to cheat even harder?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 07, 2020, 01:34:32 pm
When does not conceding victory turn into an attempted coup?

I don't think it matters if he concedes.  I think that Joe B is getting sworn in as President on Jan 20, whether Trump likes it or not. I don't think his refusal to acknowledge his defeat is an attempted coup, I think it's just more proof that he doesn't care about anything beyond himself, and doesn't care whether his unsubstantiated claims lead to division, strife, or violence.

If he (or Donny Jr, or Eric, or anybody else in their camp) actually encourages armed revolt, I would imagine they could be treading in dangerous territory (sedition?) and I would imagine that they will need to be a bit cautious when they talk about waging "total war" to contest the election results.

It's what happens after Team Trump runs out of court challenges that I'm more concerned with. 

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 07, 2020, 01:56:49 pm
Best wishes to White House Senior Advisor Ivanka Trump in her new career as spokesmodel for Goya Beans.

(https://i.imgur.com/eO2M0LO.png)

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 07, 2020, 01:58:53 pm

It's what happens after Team Trump runs out of court challenges that I'm more concerned with. 

 -k

Those ****-tards aren't going to do anything and they know it.  What are they going to do, try to get the military on their side?  Doubt that would go well, too many patriots in the military.

Inauguration day is going to be hilarious because Trump won't take part in any of the traditional passing the baton ceremonies, he'll be on the golf course or getting himself out of the country.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 07, 2020, 02:03:47 pm
Best wishes to White House Senior Advisor Ivanka Trump in her new career as spokesmodel for Goya Beans.

I want to have sex with Ivanka but I don't want her in the White House.  I hope she does well with the beans and maybe one day fondle my beans.

I feel bad for Baron, he must be bullied relentlessly at school among peers, he looks like a pretty shy and timid kid too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 07, 2020, 04:24:34 pm
Best wishes to White House Senior Advisor Ivanka Trump in her new career as spokesmodel for Goya Beans.

Until she becomes president in 4 years....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 07, 2020, 05:21:36 pm
Come January 20th they will have to wait till Trump goes golfing, then change the locks on the Whitehouse and throw his stuff out on the front lawn.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 10, 2020, 06:01:25 pm
Sorry about my source for this but the Pompeo speech is just too good to pass up!

https://www.breitbart.com/2020-election/2020/11/10/pompeo-there-will-be-smooth-transition-second-trump-administration/

Rather than those extreme right **** just trying irritate the left and cause heads to explode, it does look like they're quite serious. If not serious then they're squandering all their credibility for the sake of the psychopath.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 10, 2020, 06:59:54 pm
Sorry about my source for this but the Pompeo speech is just too good to pass up!

https://www.breitbart.com/2020-election/2020/11/10/pompeo-there-will-be-smooth-transition-second-trump-administration/

Rather than those extreme right **** just trying irritate the left and cause heads to explode, it does look like they're quite serious. If not serious then they're squandering all their credibility for the sake of the psychopath.

Why bother quoting idiots such as breitbart for your news, most other legit news channels are of course covering Barr's latest bullshyte. Or are you influenced by the likes of BB and possibly Fox? I'm hoping it comes down to the military escorting a whimpering Donny from the oval office to make way for Biden's reception.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 10, 2020, 10:46:14 pm
Just watched an expose by CNN displaying various recent news items from foxed up, sorry fox news from the likes of hannity and carlson. What utter horseshit. The really scary part is there are brain dead right wing nitwits who believe it. Oh Canada I stand on guard for thee.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 11, 2020, 09:37:12 am
1. I want to have sex with Ivanka but I don't want her in the White House. 
2. I hope she does well with the beans and maybe one day fondle my beans.
3. I feel bad for Baron, he must be bullied relentlessly at school among peers, he looks like a pretty shy and timid kid too.
1. Are you sure ?  Because taking her in the WH would be très hot
2. Not to bust your chops too much, pal, but your chances are so cosmically low that they are significantly lower than mine.
3. He could be amazing. He could be worse than his dad.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 11, 2020, 10:59:15 am
Why bother quoting idiots such as breitbart for your news, most other legit news channels are of course covering Barr's latest bullshyte. Or are you influenced by the likes of BB and possibly Fox? I'm hoping it comes down to the military escorting a whimpering Donny from the oval office to make way for Biden's reception.

If you have a serious question you would like me to answer, then please, no more of your childish spamming. However, to do my part to make this forum better, I'll overlook your childish spam this time and answer your question.

Yes, I'm influenced by all news media I read, whether it's your Fox News you've quoted or it's Breitbart, antiwar.com, RT.com, or even the NYT. There're all informative for those who are interested in world affairs more than just silly childish spamming. Now let's see if we can do a little better shall we?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 11, 2020, 11:04:34 am
1. Are you sure ?  Because taking her in the WH would be très hot
2. Not to bust your chops too much, pal, but your chances are so cosmically low that they are significantly lower than mine.
3. He could be amazing. He could be worse than his dad.

Everybody is completely aware that Fox News isn't reliable information much of the time, but it's good for you to see it too as it expands your horizons.

So you see, there's no reason to be spamming me for watching Breitbart ocassionally, is there now!
Perhaps your more grown up behaviour will help us to rebuild some bridges here. But please be aware that I won't tolerate anymore SPAMMING!

Cheers and have a lovely day!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 11, 2020, 11:14:45 am
Trump becomes a very real threat to US national security.

https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/former-cia-director-trump-could-reveal-state-secrets-after-leaving-office-95689285801

But upon a closer look, would this be a bad thing for the rest of the world? Is there any doubt that the US has become the evil empire that threatens our world with more and more wars of aggression? Is there any indication that Biden could be any different.

Trump's betrayall of secrets to China or Russia for instances, regardless of his motives, could be a great aid for defusing US future intentions of more aggression.

Trump had his negatives, and they were probably more than any positives, but on US foreign policy it's becoming clearer that Trump's fall from glory will energize him to make further attempts to find common ground between his country and Russia/Putin.
To gauge the potential for good Trump could have, just listen to US hawks when they start screaming bloody murder!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 11, 2020, 11:54:55 am
If you have a serious question you would like me to answer, then please, no more of your childish spamming. However, to do my part to make this forum better, I'll overlook your childish spam this time and answer your question.

Yes, I'm influenced by all news media I read, whether it's your Fox News you've quoted or it's Breitbart, antiwar.com, RT.com, or even the NYT. There're all informative for those who are interested in world affairs more than just silly childish spamming. Now let's see if we can do a little better shall we?

My serious question in case you missed it, is why do you bother to get your news from sources well known to be illegitimate? It does seem to negatively affect your statements/opinions.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 11, 2020, 12:26:44 pm
My serious question in case you missed it, is why do you bother to get your news from sources well known to be illegitimate? It does seem to negatively affect your statements/opinions.

Thank you for you grownup reply that doesn't contain more spamming. The simple answer that should be very easily understood by everybody is that all new sources provide some indication on how the 'other' side or the 'fringe' is thinking. And especially now that Breitbart likely has hundreds of thousands or even millions of followers who are sympathizing with the 'fringe' that has 70 million supporters.

Why is this so hard for you to accept. It seems to me that it can't be anything more than just contrariness.

Same goes for RT.com, and I could name a dozen more that don't speak the language you prefer to hear. Why not try to come to the understanding that every word they print is golden for the sake of being able to understand Russia's P's O V? Adults surely understand that they don't have to agree with any news outlet, but adults obviously understand that they're tying their hands and leaving themselves in the dark if they don't explore all opinions.

Please at least try to move along from your contrary attitude. It's not serving you well at all!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 11, 2020, 12:34:38 pm
Thank you for you grownup reply that doesn't contain more spamming. The simple answer that should be very easily understood by everybody is that all new sources provide some indication on how the 'other' side or the 'fringe' is thinking. And especially now that Breitbart likely has hundreds of thousands or even millions of followers who are sympathizing with the 'fringe' that has 70 million supporters.

Why is this so hard for you to accept. It seems to me that it can't be anything more than just contrariness.

Same goes for RT.com, and I could name a dozen more that don't speak the language you prefer to hear. Why not try to come to the understanding that every word they print is golden for the sake of being able to understand Russia's P's O V? Adults surely understand that they don't have to agree with any news outlet, but adults obviously understand that they're tying their hands and leaving themselves in the dark if they don't explore all opinions.

Please at least try to move along from your contrary attitude. It's not serving you well at all!

What serves me well with this issue is not relying on news (such as Faux. Breitbart)) that are demonstrably phony and driven by far right extremist views.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 11, 2020, 12:44:22 pm
What serves me well with this issue is not relying on news (such as Faux. Breitbart)) that are demonstrably phony and driven by far right extremist views.

I can't help people who refuse to help themselves. Just don't try throwing your spam at me and we'll do fine here.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 11, 2020, 08:24:13 pm
Trump becomes a very real threat to US national security.

https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/former-cia-director-trump-could-reveal-state-secrets-after-leaving-office-95689285801

But upon a closer look, would this be a bad thing for the rest of the world? Is there any doubt that the US has become the evil empire that threatens our world with more and more wars of aggression? Is there any indication that Biden could be any different.

Trump's betrayall of secrets to China or Russia for instances, regardless of his motives, could be a great aid for defusing US future intentions of more aggression.

Trump had his negatives, and they were probably more than any positives, but on US foreign policy it's becoming clearer that Trump's fall from glory will energize him to make further attempts to find common ground between his country and Russia/Putin.
To gauge the potential for good Trump could have, just listen to US hawks when they start screaming bloody murder!

The only positive that could come from Trump selling US national security secrets to Russia or China is that when he's caught they can execute him for treason.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 12, 2020, 11:39:09 am
The only positive that could come from Trump selling US national security secrets to Russia or China is that when he's caught they can execute him for treason.

 -k

It's going to be more secretive than that Kimmy. And besides, didn't everybody already know that Biden will pardon Trump? They always forgive and forget their presidents' criminality.

Anyway, there's probably nothing China and Russia don't know that they want to know. And vice versa maybe?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 12, 2020, 12:45:16 pm
It's going to be more secretive than that Kimmy. And besides, didn't everybody already know that Biden will pardon Trump? They always forgive and forget their presidents' criminality.

Anyway, there's probably nothing China and Russia don't know that they want to know. And vice versa maybe?

Apparently you didn't know that Biden has already said he won't pardon Trump saying instead he will let the justice system run it's course.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 12, 2020, 01:29:03 pm
Apparently you didn't know that Biden has already said he won't pardon Trump saying instead he will let the justice system run it's course.

I did know that Omni, and that told me immediately that he will. Or at least he will if it comes to needing that. Biden also babbled on about bringing that country together again.

I know pretty well everything that's going on politically in that country Omni, or at the very least, everything you'll ever know. You should keep that in mind if you intend to continue barking at me.

And fwiw, if you were thinking logically rather than pouting, the justice system needs to run it's course on any particular matter before the pardon process kicks in.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 12, 2020, 01:41:07 pm
... the justice system needs to run it's course on any particular matter before the pardon process kicks in.

apparently, 'it is said' by anonymous inside sources (ahem), Trump has designs on issuing pardons preemptively for things people could be charged with in the future. The legality of this is unclear... as is whether or not Trump can self-pardon himself.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 12, 2020, 02:04:08 pm
apparently, 'it is said' by anonymous inside sources (ahem), Trump has designs on issuing pardons preemptively for things people could be charged with in the future. The legality of this is unclear... as is whether or not Trump can self-pardon himself.

It's nothing better than a crapshoot waldo. That which is irrational can be made to be rational. And consider that if they can do that down there, there could be extreme rightists in Alberta that will try to introduce the same crap in Canada.

They're lost in a cesspool of corruption and now they're stuck with no solutions for at least another 4 years. Even if the D's win the senate, there's little chance of any success under Biden.

Both sides are still calling any sort of meaningful change as socialism or communism. And isn't it very obvious that Biden, their media, and their congress critters are deathly afraid of the term.

By now it should be scoffed at and laughed at! Fkng seriously!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 13, 2020, 11:52:44 am
A comment at the NP, not mine but worth reading.

Quote
What will happen is: as soon as the dust settles, Trump will say "I am done" and will resign. Pence will be sworn in as President for the remainder of Trump's term (December-January 21, 2021). During that time, Pence will pull a Gerald Ford and pardon Trump for any and all wrongdoing during his administration. People say, he can't be pardoned if he hasn't been charged. But, Nixon hadn't been formally charged with any crime when Ford pardoned him.

It could be possible but it requires Trump to accept defeat and that probably won't be possible. Or could he see escaping prosecution as winning?
Would suicide be a way of winning for Trump?
How can a psychopath get out of this situation he's in?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 15, 2020, 01:20:44 pm
as below (left), at his sole public appearance since election day, Trump showcased his new silver-fox 'do' ... as compared to his usual pissYellow colouring! Word on the street says Trump's trusted colorist was deported.

(https://i.imgur.com/fOmQIfL.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 15, 2020, 01:34:29 pm
Weird.  Looks so much better.

He represents the end of capitalism.  A hyperreal figure, a cartoon that became real.  They must never allow this to happen again.  Euthanize all who voted for him and OF COURSE I MEAN FIGURATIVELY.   I'm not that cruel.

Right ?

 ???
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 15, 2020, 01:52:30 pm
as below (left), at his sole public appearance since election day, Trump showcased his new silver-fox 'do' ... as compared to his usual pissYellow colouring! Word on the street says Trump's trusted colorist was deported.

(https://i.imgur.com/fOmQIfL.png)

You really think he changed the colour? Looks to me that it's a change of lighting, due to the grey shade on the flag's white between the blood stripes.
But if you think so, what could be the message in his head? Beleaguered? Looking for pity?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 15, 2020, 02:01:19 pm
Weird.  Looks so much better.

He represents the end of capitalism.  A hyperreal figure, a cartoon that became real.  They must never allow this to happen again.  Euthanize all who voted for him and OF COURSE I MEAN FIGURATIVELY.   I'm not that cruel.

Right ?

 ???

He represented hope for the millions of ordinary working people who had had enough of the ripoff that is the American way. We shouldn't be getting that wrong. And the other fact about him is that he lied with his promises to help the ordinary people.

He was still able to make them believe that he was trying to do just that but was prevented by the other side that was trying to turn their country into a socialist paradise.

I think that Canadians need to be able to rise above their hate for the psychopath and try to understand why he still has over 70 million fooled. That's not an insignificant number!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 15, 2020, 05:54:18 pm
You really think he changed the colour? Looks to me that it's a change of lighting, due to the grey shade on the flag's white between the blood stripes. But if you think so, what could be the message in his head? Beleaguered? Looking for pity?

I am not, as you say, "thinking he changed"... he changed his hair colour to the point it was noticed and became an interweb thingee... trending and all!

like I said, speculation survey said his colourist was deported; I'm leaning more to the possibility he's out of fake tanning agent orange, so he's thrown the towel in on his appearance. Watch to see if he starts appearing in a bathrobe or sweat pants!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 15, 2020, 06:01:33 pm
I think that Canadians need to be able to rise above their hate for the psychopath and try to understand why he still has over 70 million fooled. That's not an insignificant number!

wait for the postmortem analysis that attempts to delineate within that 73 million 'Trump popular vote' number... to estimate how many people just voted Republican party (over Trump... in spite of Trump) versus those die-hard MAGA supporters that actually chose Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on November 15, 2020, 07:12:16 pm
wait for the postmortem analysis that attempts to delineate within that 73 million 'Trump popular vote' number... to estimate how many people just voted Republican party (over Trump... in spite of Trump) versus those die-hard MAGA supporters that actually chose Trump.
From that we might guess at how many will follow the Next One and split the conservative vote. I recall reading that a lot of the Tea Partiers that became Trumpists have their origins in the Democrats that followed George Wallace when he ran as an independent candidate thereby splitting the progressive vote.  Republicans will hopefully rue the day for years to come that they ever let themselves get tangled up with these losers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 16, 2020, 10:34:13 am
He represented hope for the millions of ordinary working people who had had enough of the ripoff that is the American way. We shouldn't be getting that wrong. And the other fact about him is that he lied with his promises to help the ordinary people.

He was still able to make them believe that he was trying to do just that but was prevented by the other side that was trying to turn their country into a socialist paradise.

I think that Canadians need to be able to rise above their hate for the psychopath and try to understand why he still has over 70 million fooled. That's not an insignificant number!

This is an important question, and one that goes beyond the borders of the US.  Left wing parties in other modern nations are struggling too. The UK Labour Party was absolutely destroyed in their last election. Canada's NDP are just a blip on the radar now.  The Democrats, and the NDP, and the Labour Party have all lost touch with the people that used to be their base.  In the UK election, northern towns that used to be blue collar coal mining towns that had voted Labour for a century straight went to Boris Johnson. The "rust belt" states that were supposed to be a Democrat stronghold went to Trump in 2016 and just barely flipped back to the Democrats in 2020.  Why?

Why? One theory is that it's because left-wing parties have forgotten what they used to represent and gone all-in on identity politics and a "woke" agenda that ordinary people couldn't care less about. They're now seen as representing ivory tower academics and social justice ideas that don't have any relevance to the blue collar workers that used to vote for them.

Bill Maher made this rant after the election, arguing that these identity politics ideas are not just not inspiring to voters, but actively repellant.  Most people don't actually support "defund the police", or "52 genders", or that sort of thing.  Maher argues that the Democrats need to get away from championing fringe ideas in the name of identity politics or they will continue to turn away voters:   "If Crackerjacks were made of popcorn and dogshit, and half the people throw out the popcorn, popcorn ought to want to know why. This is worth a watch and deserves some thought:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgrZAPUvKyA

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 16, 2020, 12:01:16 pm
Good attempt at an analysis Kimmy!

This is an important question, and one that goes beyond the borders of the US.  Left wing parties in other modern nations are struggling too. The UK Labour Party was absolutely destroyed in their last election. Canada's NDP are just a blip on the radar now.  The Democrats, and the NDP, and the Labour Party have all lost touch with the people that used to be their base.  In the UK election, northern towns that used to be blue collar coal mining towns that had voted Labour for a century straight went to Boris Johnson. The "rust belt" states that were supposed to be a Democrat stronghold went to Trump in 2016 and just barely flipped back to the Democrats in 2020.  Why?

There's no left wing in the US and it's hard to even visualize a 'left'! They can't even visualize a socially responsible capitalist government like Canada's Liberal party, and that's not left on the world's political spectrum. So we're going to have to talk about their politics or other non-US ppolitics. We can't talk about both at the same time. I'll continue by talking about US politics.

Quote
Why? One theory is that it's because left-wing parties have forgotten what they used to represent and gone all-in on identity politics and a "woke" agenda that ordinary people couldn't care less about. They're now seen as representing ivory tower academics and social justice ideas that don't have any relevance to the blue collar workers that used to vote for them.

There is redbaiting and fear-mongering in the US if Bernie or Elizabeth are even mentioned. I would put that down to the fact that the very wealthy have done an excellent job influencing the people. Imagine a country that can't even provide good quality healthcare for all of their people at a cost that's affordable! Just imagine! The system is corrupt and the people of America have accepted it. That's why we can't talk about them and talk about other countries at the same time.

Quote
Bill Maher made this rant after the election, arguing that these identity politics ideas are not just not inspiring to voters, but actively repellant.  Most people don't actually support "defund the police", or "52 genders", or that sort of thing.  Maher argues that the Democrats need to get away from championing fringe ideas in the name of identity politics or they will continue to turn away voters:   "If Crackerjacks were made of popcorn and dogshit, and half the people throw out the popcorn, popcorn ought to want to know why. This is worth a watch and deserves some thought:

Bill Maher is very clever but he can't talk about America's problem from within. He's an American who can never get to the facts. First, because the truth is unpopular to all Americans. And second, because he's not understanding that extremism of one side begets an opposite reaction of extremism.

And third, his country is immersed in racism and it's not something that he can mention. Both sides politically own the problem, it's not an extreme right or extreme left issue.

ALL OF TRUMP'S EFFORTS CAN BE TRACED BACK TO BLAMING NON-WHITES FOR THE SYSTEM THAT'S DEPRIVING THE PEOPLE OF A PIECE OF THE AMERICAN PIE!

That attracted over 70 million voters because there's just no doubt that is the issue with Americans. It shouldn't be hard to understand because Hitler used the same tactic against the Jews.

So now that we should be able to understand that, is there a solution to America's problem? Yes there is! But it requires the acceptance of that which they visualize as socialism or communism.

That's the only way now because there's no chance of them dealing with their racism problem. That's unsolvable because their Constitution was built around a compromise of accepting racism as a price of union.

The rest of the world needs to be discussed separately because it's not a problem that's common to the US.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 16, 2020, 12:20:42 pm

Why? One theory is that it's because left-wing parties have forgotten what they used to represent and gone all-in on identity politics and a "woke" agenda that ordinary people couldn't care less about. They're now seen as representing ivory tower academics and social justice ideas that don't have any relevance to the blue collar workers that used to vote for them.
 

Yes. 

I have read a lot about the left's prevalence in the 20th century and they were also helped by:

- Demonizing the rich and ...
- Getting things for people ie. jobs, homes, electricity, money
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 16, 2020, 01:14:00 pm
Yes. 

I have read a lot about the left's prevalence in the 20th century and they were also helped by:

- Demonizing the rich and ...
- Getting things for people ie. jobs, homes, electricity, money

Demonizing the rich is called 'stealing money from the wealthy'. In their minds, that's what the left's agenda is all about.

And so for you, I'll provide a proper understanding of what is happening, just in case you don't know.

In America, when the huge corporations earn money from the labour of the people and the country that provides them the opportunity to earn wealth, THEY GET TO KEEP ALL OF WHAT THEY EARN!

So you see, it never was their money to begin with. That would be an oligarchy instead of a capitalist system in which a country's earned wealth is intended to lift all boats.

Pretty simple right? In a true capitalist democracy, the corporations are taxed and the people of the country benefit from the country's wealth that's being exploited by their corporations. And also small businesses.

The point is simple to understand. The people aren't stealing money from the wealthy. Not even with an inheritance tax, but that's getting into it deeper than we need to go.

A good person to ask about this would be Gorgeous who is a rational rightist that can be trusted! He wouldn't dare lie about any of that!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 16, 2020, 03:22:32 pm
Yes. 

I have read a lot about the left's prevalence in the 20th century and they were also helped by:

- Demonizing the rich and ...
- Getting things for people ie. jobs, homes, electricity, money

Maher makes some good points. Things like defund the police have nothing to do with any of those things.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 16, 2020, 03:38:54 pm
Maher makes some good points. Things like defund the police have nothing to do with any of those things.

'Defund the police' without context is just a slogan.

"Let's contract out parking ticket givers"
"No police at all"

What does it mean ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on November 16, 2020, 04:14:21 pm
Am I supposed to be holding my breath waiting for some big centrist backlash to clear the decks of the whack-jobs that have commanded so much attention?   I said I get it, Jessica Yaniv is an effing twathead.

BTW is there a right-wing equivalent to Maher? Please don't tell me it's Rush Limbaugh who we can clearly thank for leading conservatives to the path of idiocy they've taken. There's nothing like him on the progressive side.

Perhaps Maher should get off his ass, put his money where his influence is and run for office.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 16, 2020, 04:43:10 pm
'Defund the police' without context is just a slogan.

"Let's contract out parking ticket givers"
"No police at all"

What does it mean ?

It's whatever the Republicans can make it mean. That's Maher's point.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 16, 2020, 08:00:39 pm
Bill Maher made this rant after the election, arguing that these identity politics ideas are not just not inspiring to voters, but actively repellant.  Most people don't actually support "defund the police", or "52 genders", or that sort of thing.  Maher argues that the Democrats need to get away from championing fringe ideas in the name of identity politics or they will continue to turn away voters:   "If Crackerjacks were made of popcorn and dogshit, and half the people throw out the popcorn, popcorn ought to want to know why. This is worth a watch and deserves some thought:

Ya but twitter mobs of angry milleninals kimmy.  Apparently they control everything now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 17, 2020, 07:56:37 pm
Right now Trump reminds me of a little guy with a moustache hiding in a bunker in April 1945, directing non existent armies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 17, 2020, 08:11:03 pm
Right now Trump reminds me of a little guy with a moustache hiding in a bunker in April 1945, directing non existent armies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR5q0ajW8Ko
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 17, 2020, 09:45:09 pm
GOP Senator Chuck Grassley 87, tests positive for Covid. Might shake up the senate balance a bit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 17, 2020, 11:20:20 pm
GOP Senator Chuck Grassley 87, tests positive for Covid. Might shake up the senate balance a bit.

I think Iowa would get to pick another one if he croaks.  Iowa state gov't is all Republican.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 17, 2020, 11:54:23 pm
I think Iowa would get to pick another one if he croaks.  Iowa state gov't is all Republican.

Ya, you're right. Iowa is also being crushed by Covid. Republican governor and maskless Trump rally attender is now panicking.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 18, 2020, 01:04:38 am
Get down on your knees Rudy with your lipstick on while Donny approaches the bench with his fly undone for you.
Sorry if that's a little harsh but it's where they have come to.
Let's hope it gets better come January 3
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on November 18, 2020, 07:34:47 am
I think Grassly is one of the more moderate Republicans. That's not saying much.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 18, 2020, 09:26:20 am
Iowa is approaching 200K cases, has had over 2000 deaths and is averaging over 2O deaths a day, 31 on Monday. This with 2 million fewer people than BC. The Republicans are doing a fine job.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 19, 2020, 11:30:17 pm
Ha, ha between Trump's phony hairpiece blowing in the breeze and apparently now dyed another color, and Gulliani's black hair dye mixed with his greasy sweat and running down both sides of his face at his latest attempt at a speech,  on top of the complete ineptitude demonstrated by both these creeps, I once again feel so grateful to be able to live on the north side of the 49th. Vive le Canada.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 21, 2020, 09:31:18 pm
Apparently trump knows he's lost the election but is trying to mess with teh system as much as he can because there is some doubt  as to whether he was a legitimately elected POTUS in the first place, How much more time will this idiot be able to waste before the US and the rest of the world can move on?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/19/politics/trump-democrats-election/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on November 21, 2020, 11:00:50 pm
I created this with the idea that it would be the catch all Trump thread - just FYI.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 22, 2020, 12:15:13 am
Well if I recall correctly a game I used to play had a rule that three strikes at the ball and you were out. Now apparently in Trump's version of the game 30 strikes and he still says he's not out. Well if I was a pitcher in that game I would wind up one of my fastest fastballs, spit on it a little bit, and aim it at that phony hairpiece. Except I suspect after you heard a huge clunk with the ball impacting the forehead, the batter would still simply be waving the bat.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 22, 2020, 12:29:10 pm
I created this with the idea that it would be the catch all Trump thread - just FYI.

I hear you and I disagree on it being the right approach. Why must it be so when there are interesting derivations from the main topic coming up every day now? The Trump legal team's twisting and turning relates to Trump but it's a topic on it's own.

If you dictate that it must be so for this thread I have no choice but to follow your directions. It will be grudgingly and with regrets that it will only hamper any chances of this forum growing.

The forum is showing some moderate growth but I can't do it by myself. I need you on my side.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on November 22, 2020, 12:42:11 pm
I hear you and I disagree on it being the right approach.

I'm just relaying the feelings of the broader forum community. I'm not actually going to do anything about it. Post as you wish.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 22, 2020, 12:46:14 pm
I'm just relaying the feelings of the broader forum community. I'm not actually going to do anything about it. Post as you wish.

Thank you and I will.

But you're not relaying the feelings of the broader forum community, you're relaying their message of needing to oppose me because of their bad feelings. I can elaborate on the 'bad feelings' but I won't because it will just make them angrier and more contrary.
Let me know if you need some help moderating this forum. I have to at least offer so I can say I did.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 24, 2020, 06:49:31 pm
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/d9865f488d74d486f037b697c90d842b1e6d2c90/0_0_3298_2007/master/3298.jpg?width=1920&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=dd0467f68637f6548e82167e96486a4b)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 24, 2020, 07:08:15 pm
Thank you and I will.

But you're not relaying the feelings of the broader forum community, you're relaying their message of needing to oppose me because of their bad feelings. I can elaborate on the 'bad feelings' but I won't because it will just make them angrier and more contrary.
Let me know if you need some help moderating this forum. I have to at least offer so I can say I did.

The broader forum community is either giggling at you, or ignoring you. Please go ahead and start yet another Trump forum. We are getting hoots out of the various responses that activbity has generated.  :)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 24, 2020, 10:43:55 pm
The broader forum community is either giggling at you, or ignoring you. Please go ahead and start yet another Trump forum. We are getting hoots out of the various responses that activbity has generated.  :)

Would you feel any better if I delete all of your posts on my threads?

I really do care about your opinion and so I won't post anymore Trump threads.

Would that work better for you?  Just say the word.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 24, 2020, 11:04:13 pm
Would you feel any better if I delete all of your posts on my threads?

I really do care about your opinion and so I won't post anymore Trump threads.

Would that work better for you?  Just say the word.

Please feel free to generate as many redundant Trump threads as you feel compelled to. do keep in mind that donny is soon to fade into history as a one termer who was essentially a joke.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 25, 2020, 08:51:10 am
Please feel free to generate as many redundant Trump threads as you feel compelled to. do keep in mind that donny is soon to fade into history as a one termer who was essentially a joke.

A dangerous joke who was impeached and lost the popular vote twice.

I just looked up the "other" terrible president in history James Buchanan and did some reading.  Donald J. Trump is about 10% the president he was.  This was a diffident president who tried to quell conflict ineffectively.  Trump tried to instill distrust and divisiveness.

The fact that so many voted for him is damning for the concept of democracy. 

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 25, 2020, 10:58:16 am
Please feel free to generate as many redundant Trump threads as you feel compelled to. do keep in mind that donny is soon to fade into history as a one termer who was essentially a joke.

Thank you for your permission, and I will when I find something that needs posting. Now maybe that's the last word about it that I'll hear from you!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 25, 2020, 11:25:25 am
A dangerous joke who was impeached and lost the popular vote twice.

I just looked up the "other" terrible president in history James Buchanan and did some reading.  Donald J. Trump is about 10% the president he was.  This was a diffident president who tried to quell conflict ineffectively.  Trump tried to instill distrust and divisiveness.

The fact that so many voted for him is damning for the concept of democracy.

Consider someone like Trump as PM with a 39% majority and the power of political life and death over everyone in his caucus. Something for the opponents of electoral reform to chew on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 25, 2020, 11:47:29 am
Consider someone like Trump as PM with a 39% majority and the power of political life and death over everyone in his caucus. Something for the opponents of electoral reform to chew on.

I changed my mind on it somewhat myself.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 25, 2020, 12:00:31 pm


The fact that so many voted for him is damning for the concept of democracy.

Yes, that is true for some democracies. Do you know why that happened? Do you know why it happened to Germany's democracy when the Nazis took over? Do you know why it happened to other democracies?

There are variations from one to another but the same basic reason is true for all of them. The country's people were fed up with not getting a piece of the pie. In Germany, there was very little pie to go around and that was for their specifc reason. Do you know why Americans resorted to Trump.

It's no more obvious to Canadians that he was a sick psychopath than it was obvious to Americans.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 25, 2020, 12:10:33 pm
Yes, that is true for some democracies. Do you know why that happened? Do you know why it happened to Germany's democracy when the Nazis took over? Do you know why it happened to other democracies?

There are variations from one to another but the same basic reason is true for all of them. The country's people were fed up with not getting a piece of the pie. In Germany, there was very little pie to go around and that was for their specifc reason. Do you know why Americans resorted to Trump.

It's no more obvious to Canadians that he was a sick psychopath than it was obvious to Americans.

It has been obvious to this Canadian for some time even before he was elected. And now it is obvious to the majority of Americans.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 25, 2020, 12:25:11 pm
It has been obvious to this Canadian for some time even before he was elected. And now it is obvious to the majority of Americans.
Thanks for sharing that with us. Was the rest of it too complicated for you or did it rub you the wrong way for your politics?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 25, 2020, 12:26:13 pm
The fact that so many voted for him is damning for the concept of democracy.

take solace in the fact 'some percentage' of those Trump votes were party aligned. I'm still waiting for postmortem analysis to suggest how many voted Republican for president in spite of Trump. Equally of interest, how many Republicans voted for Biden, voted for a Democrat for the first time in their voting history... and did it make any difference, particularly in so-called battleground states?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 25, 2020, 12:29:53 pm
Thanks for sharing that with us. Was the rest of it too complicated for you or did it rub you the wrong way for your politics?

I made it as simple as I could for you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 25, 2020, 12:46:38 pm
take solace in the fact 'some percentage' of those Trump votes were party aligned. I'm still waiting for postmortem analysis to suggest how many voted Republican for president in spite of Trump. Equally of interest, how many Republicans voted for Biden, voted for a Democrat for the first time in their voting history... and did it make any difference, particularly in so-called battleground states?

Forget Trump. Take note that the Democrats didn't flip the Senate and lost two seats in the House. This election may have been a rejection of Trump but it was nowhere near an endorsement of the Democrats.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 25, 2020, 01:06:10 pm
Forget Trump. Take note that the Democrats didn't flip the Senate and lost two seats in the House. This election may have been a rejection of Trump but it was nowhere near an endorsement of the Democrats.

You get that right wilbur!
I hope that's because you are finally accepting that the Dem party is still just the establishment corrupt American way.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 26, 2020, 11:46:29 pm
Just listened to Trumps latest little question period he came out for since the election. Of course it was just a donny babble period rather than a question period. They should really wrap this little fat man up in some night clothes and escort him to a padded room where he belongs, and let the US and the rest of the world move toward a saner world without this imbecile with his hands on the levers of power he has in his current room.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 26, 2020, 11:55:47 pm
take solace in the fact 'some percentage' of those Trump votes were party aligned. I'm still waiting for postmortem analysis to suggest how many voted Republican for president in spite of Trump. Equally of interest, how many Republicans voted for Biden, voted for a Democrat for the first time in their voting history... and did it make any difference, particularly in so-called battleground states?

Forget Trump. Take note that the Democrats didn't flip the Senate and lost two seats in the House. This election may have been a rejection of Trump but it was nowhere near an endorsement of the Democrats.

didn't flip the Senate... yet! (https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/georgia-run-off-senate-election-races-1.5793789) That the state of Georgia is now blue after this election is clearly an endorsement of... sumthin - yes?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 27, 2020, 08:27:52 am
didn't flip the Senate... yet! (https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/georgia-run-off-senate-election-races-1.5793789) That the state of Georgia is now blue after this election is clearly an endorsement of... sumthin - yes?

Hold the phone, the waldo, the Donald is said to be ready to ACTIVELY ASSIST in the campaigns which would fill me with a peanut buttery/chocolate mix of dread and joy.

Dread because I have to listen to that f***
But also joy because I will know that his talons are so deep into the Republican party that they can never move forward with a message that is:

-positive
-clear & organized
-based in the real world we inhabit
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 27, 2020, 08:47:42 am
didn't flip the Senate... yet! (https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/georgia-run-off-senate-election-races-1.5793789) That the state of Georgia is now blue after this election is clearly an endorsement of... sumthin - yes?

It isn’t blue yet. There is a runoff in January for the two Senate seats.
The state senate, house and governor are all solidly Republican.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on November 27, 2020, 09:00:54 am
Hold the phone, the waldo, the Donald is said to be ready to ACTIVELY ASSIST in the campaigns which would fill me with a peanut buttery/chocolate mix of dread and joy.

Dread because I have to listen to that f***
But also joy because I will know that his talons are so deep into the Republican party that they can never move forward with a message that is:

-positive
-clear & organized
-based in the real world we inhabit

His mixed messaging of "Elections are Frauds!" and "Please vote Republican" will be met well, I'm sure.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 27, 2020, 11:33:41 am
For a clearer read on the situation in that country everybody needs to keep in mind that the people are propelled by their poverty. In their minds, Trump was going to be their saviour, but he lied.

So much faith built up in Trump can't be swept away overnight and so it will take some time. But there's no way it will take 4 years and be enough to bring Trump back in 2024 for another term.

He will be long forgotten as they go back to searching for another saviour who will rescue them from the establishment, failed American way.

More than half the people have been snowed into accepting Biden, but Biden is not going to fix anything. The establishment on both sides will make damn sure of that!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 27, 2020, 12:32:06 pm
But also joy because I will know that his talons are so deep into the Republican party that they can never move forward with a message that is:

-positive
-clear & organized
-based in the real world we inhabit

Why would they need to?   They won seats in Congress.  They didn’t lose any in the Senate yet.

Other than the presidency, they did very well this election.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 27, 2020, 12:39:29 pm
Trump is now saying at one moment he will leave the WH when the EC confirms/verifies the election results, the the next moment still raging on about how he thinks the election was rigged and fraudulent. Then he's going on telling us how he is behind the efforts to produce Covid 19 vaccines, you know for that illness that he claimed for months was a "hoax". Then he's saying there will be millions of vaccines available by "next week" again dead wrong BS. Then the DJIA breaks through 30k for the first time ever and he comes out of hiding to try and claim credit for that when it's more likely driven by optimism for the Biden presidency. The man seems to slide further into extreme mood swings, apparently driven by his intense narcissism, on a daily basis. I hope the Secret Service is keeping a close eye on him until they can drag him out and hand the keys to Joe. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 27, 2020, 01:35:21 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/FoaSzGl.png)


Trumpy, earlier today... so testy when reporters question fraud claims (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1332100126119178240/pu/vid/828x458/gYLsIA_YFCQnkJK7.mp4?tag=10)  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 27, 2020, 01:40:23 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/FoaSzGl.png)


Trumpy, earlier today... so testy when reporters question fraud claims (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1332100126119178240/pu/vid/828x458/gYLsIA_YFCQnkJK7.mp4?tag=10)  ;D

Have you seen the McLaughlin polls? Apparently 'the' John McLaughlin, who I thought was dead by now has put up some polls that show Trump with huge support on many issues. But only available as far as I know on OANN?

I have to look at RT.com still for today.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 27, 2020, 01:49:36 pm
Have you seen the McLaughlin polls? Apparently 'the' John McLaughlin, who I thought was dead by now has put up some polls that show Trump with huge support on many issues. But only available as far as I know on OANN?

I have to look at RT.com still for today.

OANN? RT.com? Boy it seems the far right spammers have all got hooks in your nose. It will be fun if the right wing rags keep nudging Trump's narcissism until the SS has to forcefully remove him from the WH.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 27, 2020, 01:50:11 pm
OANN

OANN is by the cult, for the cult (h/t atrupar)... positioning FoxNews as the voice of reason  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 27, 2020, 02:10:18 pm
OANN is by the cult, for the cult (h/t atrupar)... positioning FoxNews as the voice of reason  ;D

Right, and so is Newsmax, but sometimes now the normal media sources are declining to pick up on the stories such as this one. They are cautious of repeating the pro-Trump news for fear of legitimizing it more.

Some may want to cheat themselves out of the information by censoring those two out of being their sources of information. or at least pretend they do so?

Interesting though that Fox News decided to start clawing their way back to credibility so early in the fight! They may decide to turn turtle on that after we see the results of Trump's promotion rally in Georgia? Ya think?

Anyway, this is entertainment of the quality with which Hollywood can't compete!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 27, 2020, 02:17:53 pm
?

Anyway, this is entertainment of the quality with which Hollywood can't compete!

If you gullible enough to turn to OANN/RT etc.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 27, 2020, 06:35:29 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/FoaSzGl.png)


Trumpy, earlier today... so testy when reporters question fraud claims (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1332100126119178240/pu/vid/828x458/gYLsIA_YFCQnkJK7.mp4?tag=10)  ;D

LOL now Trump wants the burden of proof to fall on Biden.  That's not how this works.  This guy sure is tenacious lol.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 27, 2020, 07:10:17 pm
This is a hoot.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/25/trump-2024-president-reelection-bid-domain

https://donaldjtrump2024.com
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 27, 2020, 07:18:10 pm
Holy Crap! Someone put a lot of work into this one.

https://djtrumplibrary.com
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 28, 2020, 02:51:08 pm
Yet another example of Trump hypocrisy I just heard about. He was continuously playing golf, especially when H1N1 was affecting US citizens. Well let's compare: Obama played golf during his presidency just about half of the times Trump has during his first term. Obama did play when there were, wait for it, 11 cases of Ebola in the country, 2 of which were contracted in the country. Trump is out golfing as I type with over 13 million cases of Covid resulting in approx. 270k deaths. Yep if you look up the word hypocrisy/hypocrite in your funk and wagnells you should see a picture of Trump swinging a club.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 28, 2020, 04:25:30 pm
Anybody got an opinion on whether Trump might resign, hand the keys to Pence and then get a pardon from the new president? Can he do that and will he do it?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on November 28, 2020, 04:38:04 pm
Quote
Trump Supporters in Georgia Ask RNC Chair Why They Should Vote in Runoffs When System Is 'Rigged'

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-supporters-georgia-ask-rnc-chair-why-they-should-vote-runoffs-when-system-rigged-1550938

 :D

Fricken idiots can't even run circles around themselves without cocking it up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on November 28, 2020, 04:39:48 pm
Anybody got an opinion on whether Trump might resign, hand the keys to Pence and then get a pardon from the new president? Can he do that and will he do it?
I'd like to them try. Pence will probably **** it up and incriminate himself in the process.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 28, 2020, 05:07:23 pm
I'd like to them try. Pence will probably **** it up and incriminate himself in the process.

Let's throw Bill Barr into that sequence and we have a totally apropos new version of the Three Stooges.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 30, 2020, 11:43:57 pm

If this doesn't alert any of the idiots who support trump as to what kind of group they are in then I am really afraid for America.


Trump campaign lawyer Joseph diGenova said Monday that Christopher Krebs — a former federal cybersecurity official fired for doubting President Trump’s voter fraud myths — should be “taken out at dawn and shot,” a shocking insinuation by a member of the president’s legal team.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2020/11/30/trump-campaign-lawyer-suggested-executing-ex-dhs-staffer-chris-krebs/?sh=5c9d6958693d
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 01, 2020, 08:20:31 am
Every day that this nonsense continues, deeper damage to the Republicans occurs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on December 01, 2020, 10:41:55 am
Every day that this nonsense continues, deeper damage to the Republicans occurs.
Trump is also doing damage to America but there is reason to think Republicans will pay a greater price in Georgia. Between GOP'ers disgusted with Trump plus the tards who're convinced the vote is rigged enough will stay away from the polls to give Democrats total control.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 01, 2020, 11:30:15 am
Trump is also doing damage to America but there is reason to think Republicans will pay a greater price in Georgia. Between GOP'ers disgusted with Trump plus the tards who're convinced the vote is rigged enough will stay away from the polls to give Democrats total control.

I'll believe it when I see it. It's a nice thought though.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 01, 2020, 02:04:51 pm
So even Bill Barr has now come out and opposed his boss's claims of the election being rigged. Wowzee, I bet he gets summoned to the WH for a noist little get together.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 01, 2020, 02:07:42 pm
So even Bill Barr has now come out and opposed his boss's claims of the election being rigged. Wowzee, I bet he gets summoned to the WH for a noist little get together.

He is now busy trying to change the rules concerning inmates on federal death row so they can get the body count up before Jan 20.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 01, 2020, 02:14:14 pm
He is now busy trying to change the rules concerning inmates on federal death row so they can get the body count up before Jan 20.

To appease the pro-life Christians.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 01, 2020, 02:17:27 pm
To appease the pro-life Christians.

Funny but accurate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 01, 2020, 09:21:32 pm
Trump Whitehouse may have taken bribes for pardons....

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/justice-department-probes-bribery-for-trump-pardon-scheme.html

Quote
What investigators said they found was evidence of a criminal “secret lobbying scheme” on behalf of someone in the federal prison system. That person — whose identity is redacted — allegedly plotted to ask the White House for a pardon or clemency in exchange for “substantial campaign contributions.” Prosecutors made reference to people serving as “lobbyists to senior White House officials” to make the desired request and using a third party to execute the potential bribe in the form of campaign contributions.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 01, 2020, 09:24:13 pm
He is now busy trying to change the rules concerning inmates on federal death row so they can get the body count up before Jan 20.

That's odd.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 01, 2020, 09:33:27 pm
Trump Whitehouse may have taken bribes for pardons....

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/justice-department-probes-bribery-for-trump-pardon-scheme.html

Trump the moron politician:  Does illegal stuff out in the open without covering tracks, denegrates the media any chance he gets.

Other politicians:  Does illegal stuff behind closed doors & covers tracks, buys off the media.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 02, 2020, 06:26:36 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6Y4XwiLD0o
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 02, 2020, 09:31:09 am
Twisting the knife..
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 02, 2020, 11:33:32 am
Ouch
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 02, 2020, 01:32:24 pm
Melanie might not stick around???

LOL

Ok then....   
What a weird ad.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Montgomery on December 02, 2020, 01:46:24 pm
Melanie might not stick around???

LOL

Ok then....   
What a weird ad.

There's nothing I can do about your spamming here, other than just appeal to you to act like an adult and start doing what's good for our forum.
Others who are interested in grownup discussions aren't going to join in to a forum that is being spammed by petulant teens.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 02, 2020, 05:30:46 pm
There's nothing I can do about your spamming here, other than just appeal to you to act like an adult and start doing what's good for our forum.
Others who are interested in grownup discussions aren't going to join in to a forum that is being spammed by petulant teens.

Why don't you stop trying to boss people around. You aren't that **** hot.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on December 03, 2020, 08:48:44 am
It seems Trump and his lot are focusing their ire on Republicans who are just doing their job and certifying election results.

It would appear that they can't endorse Georgia's Election process, because it resulted in a Trump L. Therefore they can't endorse the Georgia Runoff candidates in the upcoming election or it would be a concession.

So they're actually telling Trump supporters to stay home.

I can't believe how dumb these people are.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 03, 2020, 08:53:50 am


I can't believe how dumb these people are.

At this point it should be obvious that there is a flaw in the culture that causes people to avoid improving themselves, thinking about things that make them look at their problems and empathize.

I would put it on consumer culture but that's my guess only.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 03, 2020, 01:23:28 pm


I would put it on consumer culture but that's my guess only.


 I think the internet will be the end of us all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on December 03, 2020, 01:30:13 pm

 I think the internet will be the end of us all.
We'll probably feel better once it assimilates us.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 03, 2020, 01:58:56 pm

 I think the internet will be the end of us all.

Clearly you don't watch pornography.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 03, 2020, 02:16:16 pm
We'll probably feel better once it assimilates us.

It has already assimilated many. I think it might be an even greater danger than climate change.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on December 03, 2020, 02:32:49 pm
It has already assimilated many. I think it might be an even greater danger than climate change.
If you think about what Michael just said imagine the day when people can jack-in as opposed to just...you know.  The greatest danger will be neglecting to unplug and starving to death.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 03, 2020, 04:05:16 pm
There's nothing I can do about your spamming here, other than just appeal to you to act like an adult and start doing what's good for our forum.
Others who are interested in grownup discussions aren't going to join in to a forum that is being spammed by petulant teens.

You're the Donald Trump of these forums.  Everything you stand for is a lie.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 03, 2020, 04:18:56 pm
At this point it should be obvious that there is a flaw in the culture that causes people to avoid improving themselves, thinking about things that make them look at their problems and empathize.

I would put it on consumer culture but that's my guess only.

It's caused by decadence.

Our society is so abundant in wealth and technology that life has become easier every generation.  We're becoming softer and softer.  We're at the point where parents are afraid to properly discipline their children for fear of "hurting feelings" and children are all told they're "special" and that everything they do is wonderful for fear of ever harming their confidence.  Parents and teachers are afraid to say "no".  Wealth is so abundant children don't have to move out of their parents house at 18 anymore, so childhood is being extended and adulthood (independence from parents) is being delayed longer and longer.

The result is generations of spoiled, coddled, narcissistic child-adults who think they're without flaw and have been raised to think the world owes them everything because they've barely had to work for anything.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 03, 2020, 07:08:20 pm
It's caused by decadence.

Our society is so abundant in wealth and technology that life has become easier every generation.  We're becoming softer and softer.  We're at the point where parents are afraid to properly discipline their children for fear of "hurting feelings" and children are all told they're "special" and that everything they do is wonderful for fear of ever harming their confidence.  Parents and teachers are afraid to say "no".  Wealth is so abundant children don't have to move out of their parents house at 18 anymore, so childhood is being extended and adulthood (independence from parents) is being delayed longer and longer.

The result is generations of spoiled, coddled, narcissistic child-adults who think they're without flaw and have been raised to think the world owes them everything because they've barely had to work for anything.

There's some truth here.  But I know who aren't spoiled... the kids I work with who lived with 5 siblings in a 3 bedroom in Weston and are making $100K now and saving it.  But they aren't grown either...

No answers just questions...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 03, 2020, 09:34:04 pm
There's some truth here.  But I know who aren't spoiled... the kids I work with who lived with 5 siblings in a 3 bedroom in Weston and are making $100K now and saving it.  But they aren't grown either...

No answers just questions...

They may not be spoiled financially, but were they coddled?  What was their upbringing?  What values were they conditioned to learn?

We are all products of our environment.  Mostly our parents, but also our material conditions, the media we're exposed to, our teachers, our peers etc.

As a culture we've never been financially and materially better off, and yet our psychology and spirit suffers like never before.  We're overfed, fat and bloated, and hide inside our homes sitting front of our computers and televisions.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 03, 2020, 11:42:40 pm
I heard yesterday that Rudy and the Trump kids are all clamoring for pre-emptive pardons.

I also heard yesterday that the Justice Department is investigating whether Trump was offering pardons in exchange for bribes.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/bribery-for-pardon-white-house-investigation-1.5824462

How sleazy can he get?

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 04, 2020, 12:25:18 am
I heard yesterday that Rudy and the Trump kids are all clamoring for pre-emptive pardons.

If that's allowed it's an attack on democracy, especially as Trump allegedly tries to pardon himself.

Presidential pardons should be removed from law.  It allows anyone in any admin or supporting any admin to break the law and get away with it.  A POTUS could nuke half the country, resign, and then be pardoned by his VP.

It's a get-out-of-jail-free card the politicians put in there for themselves.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 04, 2020, 08:04:43 am
Presidential pardons should be removed from law. 

It sounds absolutely medieval in its execution, like indulgences.

They should remove it.

However note that (I heard) a Politico poll puts Trump at a majority of support for a run in 2024, from Republicans.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 04, 2020, 08:57:41 am
It sounds absolutely medieval in its execution, like indulgences.

They should remove it.

However note that (I heard) a Politico poll puts Trump at a majority of support for a run in 2024, from Republicans.

That says all you need to know about the Republican Party.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 05, 2020, 11:17:42 pm
I just listened into hear donny babbling on in Georgia again trying to somehow salvage his presidency. Now if this was happening in Ouagadougou I wouldn't really care. However I am a Canadian and this is happening right on my relatively undefended border. I swear to gawd if I could get close enough to this ridiculous **** I'd punch his f'ing lights out. Hopefully those around him can keep him from doing anything really, really stupid before they walk him out of the WH. Such as idiots like Monty suggest as to attacking Iran.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 07, 2020, 05:36:41 pm
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5830603

Has anyone remarked that Giulianni has COVID? 

He is hospitalized now.

Hopefully his COVID experience, whether he lives or dies, is a lesson for others. 

Again, worst case scenario for the nation of USA is that, like in Trump’s case, it’s not very debilitating.   Best case scenario is probably that he croaks.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 07, 2020, 06:04:08 pm

Hopefully his COVID experience, whether he lives or dies, is a lesson for others. 

 

 ???  Oh yeah.  THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.   ???

Are you serious ?  These people proudly mocked safety precautions and as a result THEY ALL GOT COVID.  Trump, his wife, his kid, his secret service agents, several of his staff, several of the VP staff and now Guliani.

Pelosi, Harris, the Bidens are being careful and smart...

FFS what is wrong with these people.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 07, 2020, 06:05:15 pm
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5830603

Has anyone remarked that Giulianni has COVID? 

He is hospitalized now.

Hopefully his COVID experience, whether he lives or dies, is a lesson for others. 

Again, worst case scenario for the nation of USA is that, like in Trump’s case, it’s not very debilitating.   Best case scenario is probably that he croaks.

Ya, it's bad when someone croaking is a plus but you are probably right. If he does survive, I hope it kicks some of the stupidity out of him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 07, 2020, 07:30:40 pm
???  Oh yeah.  THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.   ???

Are you serious ?  These people proudly mocked safety precautions and as a result THEY ALL GOT COVID.  Trump, his wife, his kid, his secret service agents, several of his staff, several of the VP staff and now Guliani.

Pelosi, Harris, the Bidens are being careful and smart...

FFS what is wrong with these people.

They value personal liberties over health and lives.  Which is pretty dumb in this case.  These people aren't leaders.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 07, 2020, 08:07:36 pm
They value personal liberties over health and lives.  Which is pretty dumb in this case.  These people aren't leaders.

I wouldn't give them that much credit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 07, 2020, 10:08:35 pm
Melania struts around today bragging about the unveiling of a new White House tennis pavilion while the Covid pandemic kills thousands of American citizens daily. Does this sleazy **** have the slightest understanding of the word "Oligarchy" or is she completely aware of how pertinent it is to her lifestyle.? And that's more of a statement than a question.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 07, 2020, 10:33:44 pm
Melania struts around today bragging about the unveiling of a new White House tennis pavilion while the Covid pandemic kills thousands of American citizens daily. Does this sleazy **** have the slightest understanding of the word "Oligarchy" or is she completely aware of how pertinent it is to her lifestyle.? And that's more of a statement than a question.

A more useful endeavour might be a COVID victim charity?   But, then again they would probably just steal from it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 07, 2020, 10:45:11 pm
A more useful endeavour might be a COVID victim charity?   But, then again they would probably just steal from it.

I'm sure they would. Well at least we should all now have a very solid understanding of the word narcissism if we didn't already. I am hearing just now trump may try and overturn not only the popular vote for his office but also the vote of the EC if it goes against him, which it will, come Dec. 14 I think it is. I find it on one hand a tad scary, but on the other I suspect cooler (and more powerful) heads will prevail.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 07, 2020, 11:25:38 pm
I wouldn't give them that much credit.

They aren't evil, they're just stupid.  They also have different values than the other half of the country.  Values so rigid and illogical that's it's literally killing many of them, whether it be masks or gun control or government health insurance.  Many of them are hardly educated.  You can't fix stupid I guess.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 07, 2020, 11:31:35 pm
They aren't evil, they're just stupid.  They also have different values than the other half of the country.  Values so rigid and illogical that's it's literally killing many of them, whether it be masks or gun control or government health insurance.  Many of them are hardly educated.  You can't fix stupid I guess.

Of course you can fix stupid. It's done in classrooms daily. You just need someone at teh helm or at the blackboard who is not stupid. So kick donny's arse out the door and that's a good start.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 08, 2020, 07:06:49 am
They aren't evil, they're just stupid.  They also have different values than the other half of the country.  Values so rigid and illogical that's it's literally killing many of them, whether it be masks or gun control or government health insurance.  Many of them are hardly educated.  You can't fix stupid I guess.

It's not stupidity it's stubborn ignorance.  A refusal to accept that you are not the most important person in a discussion.  It's about looking at yourself as part of a greater whole, which is not recognized as a value anymore.

This is why I said that religion's downfall is related.  Religion isn't a wholesome or practical viewpoint in the modern age, but at least it didn't place the "self" as the most important thing, as our consumer society does.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on December 08, 2020, 09:35:39 am
This is why I said that religion's downfall is related.  Religion isn't a wholesome or practical viewpoint in the modern age, but at least it didn't place the "self" as the most important thing, as our consumer society does.
Makes sense, its a pretty short distance between "We're number one!" and "I'm number one"!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on December 08, 2020, 11:51:55 am
It's not stupidity it's stubborn ignorance.  A refusal to accept that you are not the most important person in a discussion.  It's about looking at yourself as part of a greater whole, which is not recognized as a value anymore.

This is why I said that religion's downfall is related. Religion isn't a wholesome or practical viewpoint in the modern age, but at least it didn't place the "self" as the most important thing, as our consumer society does.

A lot of evangelical Americans ascribe to a form of religion that does just that though. And beyond that I'd say that American exceptionalism is itself a form of religion with its own rituals and catechism.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 08, 2020, 11:22:24 pm
Perhaps God sent Donald Trump down here to earth to do a real time check on how democracy is working on this planet. And therefore when the clock ticks 00:01 Dec 15 and it's official that the Electoral College has confirmed the will of the people Donny will be put back on the shelf with a plug shoved in his mouth.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 09, 2020, 12:34:29 pm
Perhaps God sent Donald Trump down here to earth to do a real time check on how democracy is working on this planet. And therefore when the clock ticks 00:01 Dec 15 and it's official that the Electoral College has confirmed the will of the people Donny will be put back on the shelf with a plug shoved in his mouth.

Wishful thinking I'm afraid.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 09, 2020, 07:08:44 pm
Perhaps God sent Donald Trump down here to earth to do a real time check on how democracy is working on this planet. And therefore when the clock ticks 00:01 Dec 15 and it's official that the Electoral College has confirmed the will of the people Donny will be put back on the shelf with a plug shoved in his mouth.

Luckily US democracy has held up thus far.  My instincts tell me Donny won't need to leave by force come inauguration day.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 09, 2020, 07:21:22 pm
Luckily US democracy has held up thus far.  My instincts tell me Donny won't need to leave by force come inauguration day.

Well according to donny your instincts are wrong. He still thinks the vote was rigged and he plans to continue to challenge. And even if they have to force him out of the Oval Office come January he says he plans to run again in "04 and the morons who support him are filling his coffers. I'm so glad we have that wall.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 09, 2020, 08:34:02 pm
I predict that Trump is going to go to Mar-a-Lago for Christmas, and will not return to the White House afterward.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 09, 2020, 08:43:53 pm
Rudy G elite strike team has lost OVER 50 CASES! A total waste of money! Did they even go to law school? They don't know what they are doing! THEY LOSE EVERY CASE! PATHETIC!

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 09, 2020, 08:46:12 pm
Failing low-energy Rudy G looked like a total clown with hair dye running down his head! Laughed out of every court in America! Loses every case! SAD! WHAT HAPPENED TO AMERICA'S MAYOR???

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 09, 2020, 08:48:39 pm
Sidney Powell laughed out of court! CAN'T EVEN SPELL! The Kraken is a big embarrassment! WHAT A TOTAL JOKE!

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 09, 2020, 08:51:35 pm
Sad failing POTUS totally crushed in election by senile SLEEPY JOE!  Worst loss by an incumbent President since Jimmy Carter!  TRUMP should be very very ashamed! A TOTAL LOSER!

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 09, 2020, 08:55:46 pm
So I took a quick peek at MLW today and noticed that some of them are still convinced that lawsuits are going to overturn the election and give Trump a win.  The same people who were convinced that "the KRAKEN~~!" was going to turn the world on its head now believe that the Texas lawsuit is going to turn the world on its head.  It's either funny, or sad, or both, I'm not sure.

I admire people like Argus and Boges and BC Sapper for having the persistence to try to talk to those kooks.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 09, 2020, 09:03:46 pm
So I took a quick peek at MLW today and noticed that some of them are still convinced that lawsuits are going to overturn the election and give Trump a win.  The same people who were convinced that "the KRAKEN~~!" was going to turn the world on its head now believe that the Texas lawsuit is going to turn the world on its head.  It's either funny, or sad, or both, I'm not sure.

I admire people like Argus and Boges and BC Sapper for having the persistence to try to talk to those kooks.

 -k

BC Sapper loves mocking them but I'm not sure they always get it, which of course makes it even better.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 09, 2020, 09:19:35 pm
Well according to donny your instincts are wrong. He still thinks the vote was rigged and he plans to continue to challenge. And even if they have to force him out of the Oval Office come January he says he plans to run again in "04 and the morons who support him are filling his coffers. I'm so glad we have that wall.

He's broken no laws.  He's 100% entitled to file all the lawsuits he wants, it doesn't mean they'll go anywhere because most of the time his evidence is crap.  That's how the legal system works.  So yes democracy has works thus far.  But please keep frothing at the mouth.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 09, 2020, 09:23:47 pm
Rudy G elite strike team has lost OVER 50 CASES! A total waste of money! Did they even go to law school? They don't know what they are doing! THEY LOSE EVERY CASE! PATHETIC!

 -k

He's lost 30 cases and won 1 case, they've filed 50 cases total and 20 are still pending.  IMO they're just taking their supporters political donations and flushing them down the toilet because they have nothing else to spend it on and Donny doesn't want to give it to his crappy party.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/04/trump-election-lawsuits-losses-michigan-nevada-georgia-arizona
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 09, 2020, 09:24:52 pm
He's broken no laws.  He's 100% entitled to file all the lawsuits he wants, it doesn't mean they'll go anywhere because most of the time his evidence is crap.  That's how the legal system works.  So yes democracy has works thus far.  But please keep frothing at the mouth.

Ya but he quit being a president on Nov 5.  2000 Americans dying from Covid every day with hospitals crammed and health care workers dropping from fatigue but he just doesn't give a ****. He walked out on a Medal of Freedom presentation yesterday because he just wasn't interested. He needs to leave so someone can actually do the job.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 09, 2020, 09:26:54 pm
Ya but he quit being a president on Nov 5.  2000 Americans dying from Covid every day with hospitals crammed and health care workers dropping from fatigue but he just doesn't give a ****. He walked out on a Medal of Freedom presentation yesterday because he just wasn't interested. He needs to leave so someone can actually do the job.

Pretty much.  Dead man walking.  Now he's just interesting in burning everything behind him as he takes the walk of shame out of the WH.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 09, 2020, 09:31:12 pm
Hunter Biden now being investigated for federal criminal tax shenanigans.  Sounds like Trump has tapped some boys in the IRS and whatnot.  Not that I trust the Biden boys, but sounds fishy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 09, 2020, 09:48:26 pm
He's broken no laws.  He's 100% entitled to file all the lawsuits he wants, it doesn't mean they'll go anywhere because most of the time his evidence is crap.  That's how the legal system works.  So yes democracy has works thus far.  But please keep frothing at the mouth.

He has apparently broken numerous laws and that is one of the main reasons he tries to stay in the WH until the statute of limitations runs out protecting him for prosecution. Not sure what your "frothing at the mouth" bullshit is all about.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 09, 2020, 10:17:31 pm
stay in the WH until the statute of limitations runs out

There's no statute of limitations on WINNING BIGLY!

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 09, 2020, 10:29:38 pm
There's no statute of limitations on WINNING BIGLY!

 -k

Sadly for Donny he seems to be LOSING BIGLY in the courts lately. Over 40 cases now I think I heard. I guess even his buddy Rudy can't help him currently as he is now in hospital suffering from "the hoax". giggle. giggle.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 09, 2020, 11:45:14 pm
He has apparently broken numerous laws and that is one of the main reasons he tries to stay in the WH until the statute of limitations runs out protecting him for prosecution.

Show us the evidence.  Maybe he has.  What's the law he's broken?  Speculation isn't good enough.

Quote
Not sure what your "frothing at the mouth" bullshit is all about.

You buy into all the anti-Trump propaganda regardless of whether it's truthful or not because you hate the man.  I really hate defending the guy but very few reasonable people call out this kind of BS, especially on this forum.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 10, 2020, 11:36:14 am
Show us the evidence.  Maybe he has.  What's the law he's broken?  Speculation isn't good enough.

You buy into all the anti-Trump propaganda regardless of whether it's truthful or not because you hate the man.  I really hate defending the guy but very few reasonable people call out this kind of BS, especially on this forum.

Apparently you haven't been paying attention to this subject. Here is a list pf laws Trump is accused of breaking.

https://www.pajiba.com/politics/a-complete-list-of-all-the-times-donald-trump-has-broken-the-law.php

And then let's not forget his taped conversation where he brags about "grabbing women by the **** because they think you're a star".That's enough to make me hate the slob right there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 10, 2020, 11:44:32 am
He's lost 30 cases and won 1 case, they've filed 50 cases total and 20 are still pending.  IMO they're just taking their supporters political donations and flushing them down the toilet because they have nothing else to spend it on and Donny doesn't want to give it to his crappy party.

TrumpTeam & 'allies' have filed... 55 cases. Count per prominent election lawyer Marc Elias, who runs a website called Democracy Docket, puts the count as of the evening of December 9 at 1-53... with the Texas "BigOne" (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-10/the-long-shot-texas-suit-trump-is-hailing-as-the-big-one-q-a) pending!

(https://i.imgur.com/xzccm7c.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 10, 2020, 11:52:38 am
Show us the evidence.  Maybe he has.  What's the law he's broken?  Speculation isn't good enough.

Mueller? Mueller? Mueller?

(sumthinBout, for example, obstruction of justice... and choosing not to, or perhaps being unable to, indict a sitting President)


but c'mon Gorgeous, why would Trump be obsessing about being able to pardon himself if he hasn't broken any U.S. federal laws?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 10, 2020, 12:20:12 pm
Mueller? Mueller? Mueller?

(sumthinBout, for example, obstruction of justice... and choosing not to, or perhaps being unable to, indict a sitting President)


but c'mon Gorgeous, why would Trump be obsessing about being able to pardon himself if he hasn't broken any U.S. federal laws?
The Mueller investigation turned up absolutely nothing.  Just because the Trump haters in the media claim he's obsessed about pardoning himself doesn't make it true.  Get some professional help already. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 10, 2020, 12:22:48 pm
It's funny that nobody in this forum posts in the Biden thread anymore!  He's president, making policy that will take place the day he's sworn in, he's appointing cabinet members, his son is under FBI investigation over money laundering, and nobody here thinks any of that is news worthy.  LOL.  You guys live in a bubble the likes of which I've rarely seen.  Utterly pathetic.  It's why I just can't be bothered to stop by this outhouse of a forum much.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 10, 2020, 12:28:09 pm
It's funny that nobody in this forum posts in the Biden thread anymore!  He's president, making policy that will take place the day he's sworn in, he's appointing cabinet members, his son is under FBI investigation over money laundering, and nobody here thinks any of that is news worthy.  LOL.  You guys live in a bubble the likes of which I've rarely seen.  Utterly pathetic.  It's why I just can't be bothered to stop by this outhouse of a forum much.

You’re not likely to see much about Biden....   that’s because he will likely be utterly normal and relatively boring. 

The reason Obama had so many posts about him wasn’t because of anything he did....   the post volume on Obama were posts refuting the  fuckin’ birther crackpots and Muslim conpiratards filling up forums with their stupidity.  People like yourself fuelled by crackpots like Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 10, 2020, 01:43:42 pm
Mueller? Mueller? Mueller?

(sumthinBout, for example, obstruction of justice... and choosing not to, or perhaps being unable to, indict a sitting President)


but c'mon Gorgeous, why would Trump be obsessing about being able to pardon himself if he hasn't broken any U.S. federal laws?

The Mueller investigation turned up absolutely nothing.  Just because the Trump haters in the media claim he's obsessed about pardoning himself doesn't make it true.  Get some professional help already.


Quote from: Special Counsel Robert Mueller to the U.S. Congress
Trump was not exonerated by my report. The report does not exonerate Mr. Trump of obstruction of justice.

again lil' buddy! Mueller compiled compelling evidence that Trumpy engaged in conduct that likely could have been charged as obstruction of justice or witness tampering. However, he did not consider whether Trump should be indicted for obstructing the Russia investigation because he was bound by Department of Justice policy stating that a sitting president cannot be indicted.

considering the azz-kickin' your boy took, I'm quite surprised you have the mettle to actually surface in this thread!  ;D

Quote
Trump has been asking aides since 2017 about whether he can self-pardon, former aides tell CNN. One former White House official said Trump asked about self-pardons as well as pardons for his family. Trump even asked if he could issue pardons preemptively for things people could be charged with in the future, the former official said. (https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/12/politics/trump-pardons-loom-defeat/index.html)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 10, 2020, 02:03:36 pm
Shady, do you think there was voter fraud and that’s why Biden won?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 10, 2020, 02:24:35 pm
You guys live in a bubble the likes of which I've rarely seen.  Utterly pathetic.  It's why I just can't be bothered to stop by this outhouse of a forum much.

says the guy, YOU, who revels in the 'other boards' shyteShowBubble & echoChamber.

a feelin' frisky drive-by from you over here is always good for the comic relief you bring!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 10, 2020, 02:31:38 pm
Apparently you haven't been paying attention to this subject. Here is a list pf laws Trump is accused of breaking.

https://www.pajiba.com/politics/a-complete-list-of-all-the-times-donald-trump-has-broken-the-law.php

And then let's not forget his taped conversation where he brags about "grabbing women by the **** because they think you're a star".That's enough to make me hate the slob right there.

Great then let's arrest him.  Just like Bill Clinton and Dubya and Obama.  These guys are bunch of crooks.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 10, 2020, 02:37:14 pm
Great then let's arrest him.  Just like Bill Clinton and Dubya and Obama.  These guys are bunch of crooks.

He could very well be arrested once he officially leaves office. His pardon power, even if it can be applied to himself which is not yet known, does not protect him from violations of state laws he has hanging over his head.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 11, 2020, 12:39:39 pm
BREAKING: Israel and Morocco to normalize relations under Trump-brokered deal.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 11, 2020, 01:15:49 pm
BREAKING: Israel and Morocco to normalize relations under Trump-brokered deal.

oh my! "Trump brokered... between golfin & tweetin"  ;D Nobel! Nobel! Nobel! Wait waldo, whattaBout Palestine?

(https://i.imgur.com/D3ESdZq.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on December 11, 2020, 01:27:13 pm
Every day that this nonsense continues, deeper damage to the Republicans occurs.
OTOH Republicans will learn from their mistakes, adapt and carry on. The fact so many Republican's are still willing to fan the flames of hope for a reversal of the election's result is because Trump's attempted power grab is embedded within a larger power grab Republicans have been attempting for decades by hook and crook - that sad thing is how much GOP manoeuvring is almost always legal given the structural capacities that have been baked into America's political system going back to pre-civil war times.  America's GOP is very practiced at nullifying democracy and suppressing majorities from usurping a conservative exceptionalism that will justify wrecking democracy where they can't gerrymander it.

Conservative GOP'ism was here long before Trumpism.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/12/trumps-farcical-inept-and-deadly-serious-coup-attempt/617309/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on December 11, 2020, 01:45:50 pm
BREAKING: Israel and Morocco to normalize relations under Trump-brokered deal.

Breaking - Trump decides that the democratic rights of the people of Western Sahara don't matter.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2020, 02:07:52 pm
Breaking - Trump decides that the democratic rights of the people of Western Sahara don't matter.

What a clear f***ing payoff that was... all of a sudden Trump cares about the g*ddam western sahara...

Imagine if somebody actually wanted to disrupt things to help ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 11, 2020, 02:14:25 pm
What a clear f***ing payoff that was... all of a sudden Trump cares about the g*ddam western sahara...

Imagine if somebody actually wanted to disrupt things to help ?

Another trump tweet storm today as well, one of the most ridiculous is one trying to exact praise from the American people for his "handling" of Covid vaccines, even when it is known he turned down buying extra doses of teh vaccine. He's also a litle PO'ed and scared as the legal knives begin to show for him, specifically in Manhattan today, as to possible criminal charges relating to his business dealings. He really is losing his marbles.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 11, 2020, 02:38:37 pm
What a clear f***ing payoff that was... all of a sudden Trump cares about the g*ddam western sahara...

Imagine if somebody actually wanted to disrupt things to help ?
You’re becoming unhinged.  Normalizing relations in the Middle East is a good thing.  Seek professional help with your Trump derangement syndrome.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 11, 2020, 02:42:38 pm
Breaking - Trump decides that the democratic rights of the people of Western Sahara don't matter.
Not everything Trump does is bad just because it's Trump doing it.  Stop acting like children.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 11, 2020, 02:45:41 pm
OTOH Republicans will learn from their mistakes, adapt and carry on. The fact so many Republican's are still willing to fan the flames of hope for a reversal of the election's result is because Trump's attempted power grab is embedded within a larger power grab Republicans have been attempting for decades by hook and crook - that sad thing is how much GOP manoeuvring is almost always legal given the structural capacities that have been baked into America's political system going back to pre-civil war times.  America's GOP is very practiced at nullifying democracy and suppressing majorities from usurping a conservative exceptionalism that will justify wrecking democracy where they can't gerrymander it.

Conservative GOP'ism was here long before Trumpism.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/12/trumps-farcical-inept-and-deadly-serious-coup-attempt/617309/
Complete and utter nonsense.  It was the Democrats that successfully purged the Green Party from the ballot in every swing state.  Regardless, vote early vote often is the Democrat mantra for a reason!  You're a clown.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 11, 2020, 03:00:41 pm
Complete and utter nonsense.  It was the Democrats that successfully purged the Green Party from the ballot in every swing state.  Regardless, vote early vote often is the Democrat mantra for a reason!  You're a clown.

As suspected I see you are gullible enough to buy into the current trump horse **** that the current election was rigged. Sad, but I'm not surprised. and if from your recent post tell us whast you believe trump has done lately that is "good". I'll get the popcorn.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 11, 2020, 03:04:13 pm
Complete and utter nonsense.  It was the Democrats that successfully purged the Green Party from the ballot in every swing state.  Regardless, vote early vote often is the Democrat mantra for a reason!  You're a clown.

How many lawsuits did the Democrats file when Hillary lost? How many millions of voters did they try to disenfranchise in swing states because the vote didn't go their way? How many Shady?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 11, 2020, 03:04:19 pm
As suspected I see you are gullible enough to buy into the current trump horse **** that the current election was rigged. Sad, but I'm not surprised. and if from your recent post tell us whast you believe trump has done lately that is "good". I'll get the popcorn.
I didn’t say the election was rigged.  What I stated was fact.  Democrats purged the Green Party from the ballot in every swing state.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 11, 2020, 03:05:43 pm
How many lawsuits did the Democrats file when Hillary lost? How many millions of voters did they try to disenfranchise in swing states because the vote didn't go their way? How many Shady?
They filed a big one.  It was called impeachment.  It lasted his entire 4 years.  They called him an illegitimate president before he was even sworn in.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 11, 2020, 03:13:54 pm
They filed a big one.  It was called impeachment.  It lasted his entire 4 years.  They called him an illegitimate president before he was even sworn in.

And he was impeached for good reason but he got away with it because the senate was loaded on his side. He won't be so lucky once out of office even though the courts are now a bit right wing loaded.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2020, 03:18:10 pm
And he was impeached for good reason ...

All he did was try to get a foreign country to investigate an opponent by changing US policy to reward them with military aid.

This is on a par with anything Biden did... (checks notes) ...uh no cross that out.   :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 11, 2020, 03:52:24 pm
All he did was try to get a foreign country to investigate an opponent by changing US policy to reward them with military aid.

This is on a par with anything Biden did... (checks notes) ...uh no cross that out.   :D
Complete nonsense.  But if you've followed the news lately, there's good reason to investigate the Bidens. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 11, 2020, 03:53:07 pm
And he was impeached for good reason but he got away with it because the senate was loaded on his side. He won't be so lucky once out of office even though the courts are now a bit right wing loaded.
He was impeached for no reason.  Using the same standards, Biden should be impeached as well.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 11, 2020, 04:00:04 pm
They filed a big one.  It was called impeachment.  It lasted his entire 4 years.  They called him an illegitimate president before he was even sworn in.

Trump was impeached. How many lawsuits did they file to reverse the election Shady? How many voters did they try to disenfranchise in swing states they lost?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 11, 2020, 04:09:43 pm
He was impeached for no reason.  Using the same standards, Biden should be impeached as well.

I'll let you re read that post so maybe you can see the contradiction you did against yourself. More importantly MW already pointed out why trump was impeached. And we\ll see what charges are laid after Jan. 20. There are a fair number pending.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2020, 04:21:48 pm
Complete nonsense.  But if you've followed the news lately, there's good reason to investigate the Bidens.

I haven't gone on depth for this.  What are the reasons?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on December 11, 2020, 04:23:11 pm
Complete and utter nonsense.  It was the Democrats that successfully purged the Green Party from the ballot in every swing state. 
It's not nonsense at all and Democrats are rank amateurs when it comes to employing Republican tactics. It's like watching Canada trying to outfox China.

Quote
Regardless, vote early vote often is the Democrat mantra for a reason!  You're a clown.
Given that reasoning its safe to assume you buy and support the notion there was organized widespread fraud. You're consistent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 11, 2020, 05:05:23 pm
I haven't gone on depth for this.  What are the reasons?
The reasons that both Hunter Biden and Joe Biden’s brother are under investigation.  You should read up on it.  It’s quite interesting.  Hey, do you think the mainstream media would’ve censored that if Don Jr and Trump’s brother we’re under investigation?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 11, 2020, 05:11:05 pm
The reasons that both Hunter Biden and Joe Biden’s brother are under investigation.  You should read up on it.  It’s quite interesting.  Hey, do you think the mainstream media would’ve censored that if Don Jr and Trump’s brother we’re under investigation?

Who is censoring it? I just did a search on CNN and found four articles about Hunter being investigated.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 11, 2020, 06:12:58 pm
So trump again loses at the supreme court again. Even the folks he appointed told him to shove it up Texas' arse. will this nitwit finally understand that he's been kicked down the road, or will he try some other crap? I notice his tweeter account has been quiet since his latest snub but I guess he's stomping around the Oval Office wondering what to do now.Hilarious.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 11, 2020, 06:38:59 pm
They will cook up something else, with the same result.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 11, 2020, 07:28:31 pm
The Electoral College does its thing on Monday. Trump said he will leave if it votes against him. Anyone believe that?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 11, 2020, 07:45:19 pm
The Electoral College does its thing on Monday. Trump said he will leave if it votes against him. Anyone believe that?

Well he may, simply because not that the the SCOTUS has ruked against him it may provide a way for him to exit stage left in the best semblance of an honorable exit as he can come up with before he is physically removed. He can then babble on about a rerun in 4 years and we hear no more of his crap.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 11, 2020, 08:08:32 pm
The Electoral College does its thing on Monday. Trump said he will leave if it votes against him. Anyone believe that?

He'll leave 100% guaranteed.

He knew a few weeks ago he was toast just like we all knew.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 11, 2020, 08:40:47 pm
Trump administration can’t even just let the FDA process to approve the vaccine to play out without political interference.

They just had to put political pressure on the FDA to approve, which they were going to do anyway, based on the science.

The orange clown strikes again.  He can’t even stay out of his own way.

https://www.businessinsider.com/white-house-reportedly-threatened-fda-hahn-pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-2020-12?amp
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 11, 2020, 08:55:45 pm
He'll leave 100% guaranteed.

He knew a few weeks ago he was toast just like we all knew.

He'll leave one way or another, but I expect it will be on his own.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 12, 2020, 12:57:18 pm
Regardless, an FBI investigation into a president elects son and brother seems kinda newsworthy huh?  Nope, not in this forum!  Eyes closed, hands over ears. Lalalalalalalalalala!

waldo factoid: neither the son or the brother were on any election ballots (thanks to my crack research team for confirming this)

speaking of investigations: Manhattan D.A. Intensifies Investigation of Trump (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/11/nyregion/trump-taxes-cy-vance.html?referringSource=articleShare)

Quote
State prosecutors in Manhattan have interviewed several employees of President Trump’s bank and insurance broker in recent weeks, according to people with knowledge of the matter, significantly escalating an investigation into the president that he is powerless to stop.

The interviews with people who work for the lender, Deutsche Bank, and the insurance brokerage, Aon, are the latest indication that once Mr. Trump leaves office, he still faces the potential threat of criminal charges that would be beyond the reach of federal pardons.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 12, 2020, 10:37:09 pm
Trumpty dumpty loses yet again in Wisconsin this time. When will this moron just FO? Oh yeah Jan 20. I can't wait to hear what nonsense spews after the EC votes and the outcome is made official. The morons in Texas who supported him must feel extra stupic/sucked in by now.

U.S. District Judge Brett Ludwig, a Trump appointee, dismissed Trump's federal lawsuit asking the court to order the Republican-controlled Legislature to name Trump the winner over Democrat Joe Biden. The judge said Trump's arguments "fail as a matter of law and fact."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/trump-loses-wisconsin-case-while-arguing-another-one-1.5228816

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 13, 2020, 10:16:20 am
F**k you Trump Haters!

https://youtu.be/_9GjXUfFgoE
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 13, 2020, 11:25:22 am
F**k you Trump Haters!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAWtmuAisfY

member Shady, get over it! Your hero lost... President-Elect Joe Biden won, hey!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 13, 2020, 12:08:42 pm
F**k you Trump Haters!

https://youtu.be/_9GjXUfFgoE

You mean people like those who sit on the SCOTUS?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 14, 2020, 04:48:04 pm
So Trump has now officially lost at the EC but he still says he refuses to concede. I wonder what other bullshyte action he'll try to pull? Bill Barr has now left as well, i guess I'd say a rat from a sinking (sunk) ship. I bet there's more fun to be had until the SS hauls Donny's arse out of the WH. Unfortunately it may take the US awhile to extract itself from having fallen into becoming the laughing stock of most of the rest of the world.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on December 14, 2020, 07:05:05 pm
So Trump has now officially lost at the EC but he still says he refuses to concede. I wonder what other bullshyte action he'll try to pull? Bill Barr has now left as well, i guess I'd say a rat from a sinking (sunk) ship. I bet there's more fun to be had until the SS hauls Donny's arse out of the WH. Unfortunately it may take the US awhile to extract itself from having fallen into becoming the laughing stock of most of the rest of the world.
Some have likened the political rage and passion of the last few years to a wildfire, the unsaid hope or implication being it will eventually burn itself out. This fire seems more like mountain of rubber tires going up though, stubborn, lasting and toxic.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 14, 2020, 09:17:38 pm
Donald Trump as the Black Knight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmInkxbvlCs
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 14, 2020, 10:02:23 pm
It's funny that nobody in this forum posts in the Biden thread anymore!  He's president, making policy that will take place the day he's sworn in, he's appointing cabinet members, his son is under FBI investigation over money laundering, and nobody here thinks any of that is news worthy.  LOL.  You guys live in a bubble the likes of which I've rarely seen.  Utterly pathetic.  It's why I just can't be bothered to stop by this outhouse of a forum much.

You know, Shady, maybe in normal times Hunter Biden's latest troubles would be big news.  But these aren't normal times, and by far the biggest news in US politics has been Trump's ongoing efforts to get the election results overturned.  Maybe someday when attempts to subvert the election or incite rebellion are over, we can return to a normal world where something like this is news.  Until then, focus remains on Trump and whatever he does next.  With his talent for hogging the spotlight and his need to be the center of attention, there will be little attention paid to Biden's transition for the time being.

Also, I think people are kind of numb to accusations of scandal at this point.  After 4 years of Trump, and even before that ("Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi!" "But her emails!") people are just jaded at this point.  Why did the "Hunter Biden laptop" October surprise bomb so badly? Because people are just cynical to it now.  Even if Crazy Rudy's story hadn't been such an obvious load of BS, and even if Rudy hadn't been bumping around eastern Europe meeting with Russian agents prior to this amazing discovery, would anybody have even cared? I'm skeptical.  (and where is that laptop now, btw? Whatever happened to that? Haven't heard anything since election day.)  And so this latest Hunter Biden controversy, even if it's more legit than the last one... its impact is dulled because they already cried wolf once.


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 14, 2020, 11:06:38 pm
You know, Shady, maybe in normal times Hunter Biden's latest troubles would be big news.  But these aren't normal times, and by far the biggest news in US politics has been Trump's ongoing efforts to get the election results overturned.  Maybe someday when attempts to subvert the election or incite rebellion are over, we can return to a normal world where something like this is news.  Until then, focus remains on Trump and whatever he does next.  With his talent for hogging the spotlight and his need to be the center of attention, there will be little attention paid to Biden's transition for the time being.

Also, I think people are kind of numb to accusations of scandal at this point.  After 4 years of Trump, and even before that ("Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi!" "But her emails!") people are just jaded at this point.  Why did the "Hunter Biden laptop" October surprise bomb so badly? Because people are just cynical to it now.  Even if Crazy Rudy's story hadn't been such an obvious load of BS, and even if Rudy hadn't been bumping around eastern Europe meeting with Russian agents prior to this amazing discovery, would anybody have even cared? I'm skeptical.  (and where is that laptop now, btw? Whatever happened to that? Haven't heard anything since election day.)  And so this latest Hunter Biden controversy, even if it's more legit than the last one... its impact is dulled because they already cried wolf once.


 -k
Good luck/bless you trying to educate shady. It ain'nt likely to happen. He'll probably follow his mentors nonsense to the next phase, even after the EC has spoken. Maybe shady will shell out to contribute to pay donny's lawyers to try to keep him out of jail.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on December 15, 2020, 01:03:28 pm
Hmmm
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 15, 2020, 11:05:37 pm
F**k you Trump Haters!

https://youtu.be/_9GjXUfFgoE

Hey shady, maybe one reason some of us have become "trump haters" is because the sick fucker supports QANON. Is that not a good enough reason for you, or are you equally as sick?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-praises-qanon-followers-as-people-that-love-our-country-11597883634
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 16, 2020, 05:08:38 am
@Omni

Here's how the parasitic game show host will continue to work with his party:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/14/trump-republicans-georgia-fundraising-445207

There is a debt to be paid
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 16, 2020, 09:09:37 am
@Omni

Here's how the parasitic game show host will continue to work with his party:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/14/trump-republicans-georgia-fundraising-445207

There is a debt to be paid

Too funny.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 16, 2020, 10:28:48 am
Too funny.

I am on these web boards where reasonable conservatives are starting to say "what is happening ?" "we have to stop this madness"... "stop saying Trudeau is a ****, we are looking like crazy people"

The Liberal party is waiting for them  :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 11:59:51 am
F**k you Trump Haters!


Lol what a loser.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 12:02:36 pm
It's funny that nobody in this forum posts in the Biden thread anymore!  He's president, making policy that will take place the day he's sworn in, he's appointing cabinet members, his son is under FBI investigation over money laundering, and nobody here thinks any of that is news worthy.  LOL.  You guys live in a bubble the likes of which I've rarely seen.  Utterly pathetic.  It's why I just can't be bothered to stop by this outhouse of a forum much.

Biden sucks ass but no one gives a **** about Big Hog Hunter when the loser Trump and his bunch of inbreds are neck deep in crimes themselves.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 16, 2020, 12:33:01 pm
Biden sucks ass but no one gives a **** about Big Hog Hunter when the loser Trump and his bunch of inbreds are neck deep in crimes themselves.
Not true.  It's not just Biden's son, it's also his brother.  And there is credible information suggesting that Biden was a part of these infamous deals with Ukraine and China.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 01:10:24 pm
Not true.  It's not just Biden's son, it's also his brother.  And there is credible information suggesting that Biden was a part of these infamous deals with Ukraine and China.

Oh wow dude you're just discovering that America's ruling elite is irredeemably corrupt?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 16, 2020, 01:49:40 pm
  And there is credible information suggesting that Biden was a part of these infamous deals with Ukraine and China.

What is that ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 16, 2020, 11:27:25 pm
Donny is apparently now throwing temper tantrums and saying he will refuse to leave the WH. I was hoping he'd do that so we can maybe get an image of the imbecile being escorted out by the Secret Service probably acting like a naughty child being taken to the woodshed.
What truly is troubling about this is his attempt to undermine democracy and the number of nitwits he has been able to follow him. And now to the point were it has led to violence erupting from people gullible enough to believe the election was rigged. FFS these people are stupid enough to not even understand how their own election system works. Popular vote and then the antiquated EC vote. In any case we all know now who they voted for but then we hear stories such as this today.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/america-votes/former-houston-police-captain-charged-with-pointing-gun-at-air-conditioner-repairman-believing-he-was-a-voter-fraud-mastermind-1.5234004

A former police captain who was part of a private citizens group investigating still unsubstantiated 2020 election fraud claims was charged Tuesday with running a man off the road and pointing a gun to his head two weeks before the election, the Harris County district attorney said in a statement.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 17, 2020, 05:46:36 am
They can't conceive that Trump is lying.  One by one as his allies admit the reality of him losing, they pick Donald as being right and come up with reasons that he was "backstabbed". 

McConnell took money from Dominion and his wife is Chinese !  (Actually, those are both kind of true)  Geraldo was a liberal from the get-go.  The supreme court was threatened...

They know for sure that on Jan 6, Pence is going to be the one who picks the president (it's in the constitution !  do your research !) and it's not over until Jan 20th.

The weird thing is - these people are so disconnected to the mechanics of government... they just go to the mall and the role of the president, or anything is simply identity reinforcement. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 17, 2020, 11:57:00 am
Quote
Biden sucks ass but no one gives a **** about Big Hog Hunter when the loser Trump and his bunch of inbreds are neck deep in crimes themselves.
Not true.  It's not just Biden's son, it's also his brother.  And there is credible information suggesting that Biden was a part of these infamous deals with Ukraine and China.
Is this "credible" in the way that allegations against Trump over the Trump Foundation and Trump University have been? (i.e. where Trump lost the court case because the evidence was against him.)

Or is this "credible" in the same way that Trump and the MAGAchud's allegations of "voter fraud" have been (i.e. where they have basically been tossed out of court.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 17, 2020, 10:05:26 pm
Yep... That cracking sound?

It's the Republican party... as Senators are forced to stand up and choose between Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump.

https://www.oann.com/sen-elect-tommy-tuberville-to-object-electoral-votes-on-jan-6/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 17, 2020, 10:41:40 pm
You know how Trump likes to take credit for everything (including the Covid-19 vaccine)?

Wonder if he'll be taking credit for this:
From: https://www.forbes.com/sites/leahrosenbaum/2020/12/17/pfizer-says-it-has-millions-of-vaccine-doses-sitting-in-our-warehouse-but-hasnt-been-told-where-to-send-them/?sh=496b7e23400d
In a press release issued Thursday, Pfizer said that the company has millions of doses of its Covid-19 vaccines sitting in warehouses that have not been delivered because the company has not received shipping instructions from the federal government.

So, in addition to the Trump administration not pushing for smart pandemic practices (social distancing, mask wearing), removing CDC staff embedded in China (who could have provided better information early in the Pandemic), issuing a travel ban that was worse than useless (it didn't cover all travel, and the virus was already circulating in the U.S. by then), failing to purchase additional vaccine doses in the summer, and a failure to properly procure needed masks and ventilators early in the pandemic, the Trump administration is messing up the distribution of the vaccine....

(Oh, and by the way, supposedly the U.S. government is setting aside 500,000 doses in case of "emergency".  Um... what? The U.S. is already in an emergency situation. )
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 17, 2020, 10:45:19 pm
Yep... That cracking sound?

It's the Republican party... as Senators are forced to stand up and choose between Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump.

https://www.oann.com/sen-elect-tommy-tuberville-to-object-electoral-votes-on-jan-6/

That's a tight spot, considering ol' Donald could run again in 2024.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 18, 2020, 06:43:32 am
Imagine if they brought down McConnell and put in one of their own crackerjack strategists?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on December 18, 2020, 10:39:42 am
That's a tight spot, considering ol' Donald could run again in 2024.

If he lives to see 2024, I'll be shocked. The dude is a giant ball of gristle waiting to explode.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 18, 2020, 11:44:48 am
If he lives to see 2024, I'll be shocked. The dude is a giant ball of gristle waiting to explode.
Same with Biden.  He's had severe brain injuries in the past, and has worsening dementia.  I'd be surprised if he finishes his first term. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 18, 2020, 11:46:22 am
If he lives to see 2024, I'll be shocked. The dude is a giant ball of gristle waiting to explode.

He lives on a diet of junk food and gets no exercise. His mental faculties are deteriorating before our eyes.  Man woman person camera TV.  He spent a whole week bragging about passing a dementia screening test where you have to identify an elephant; in 4 years he'll be bragging about going a whole day without soiling himself. 

But the bigger impediment to him running again in 4 years might not be his physical or mental health. After January 21 I think that we will start finding out some surprising things about Mr Trump's financial situation.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 18, 2020, 11:48:28 am
He lives on a diet of junk food and gets no exercise. His mental faculties are deteriorating before our eyes.  Man woman person camera TV.  He spent a whole week bragging about passing a dementia screening test where you have to identify an elephant; in 4 years he'll be bragging about going a whole day without soiling himself. 

But the bigger impediment to him running again in 4 years might not be his physical or mental health. After January 21 I think that we will start finding out some surprising things about Mr Trump's financial situation.

 -k
Ditto for Biden.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 18, 2020, 12:04:36 pm
hey now member Shady! Who boasted about 'acing' the Montreal Cognitive Assessment (MoCA), Trumpy or Biden?  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/HohQoYC.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 18, 2020, 12:09:00 pm
He lives on a diet of junk food and gets no exercise. His mental faculties are deteriorating before our eyes.  Man woman person camera TV.  He spent a whole week bragging about passing a dementia screening test where you have to identify an elephant; in 4 years he'll be bragging about going a whole day without soiling himself. 

But the bigger impediment to him running again in 4 years might not be his physical or mental health. After January 21 I think that we will start finding out some surprising things about Mr Trump's financial situation.

 -k

As well his criminal legal situation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 18, 2020, 12:20:18 pm
hey now member Shady! Who boasted about 'acing' the Montreal Cognitive Assessment (MoCA), Trumpy or Biden?  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/HohQoYC.png)
Biden's had TWO brain aneurysms.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on December 18, 2020, 01:48:38 pm
He lives on a diet of junk food and gets no exercise. His mental faculties are deteriorating before our eyes.  Man woman person camera TV.  He spent a whole week bragging about passing a dementia screening test where you have to identify an elephant; in 4 years he'll be bragging about going a whole day without soiling himself. 

But the bigger impediment to him running again in 4 years might not be his physical or mental health. After January 21 I think that we will start finding out some surprising things about Mr Trump's financial situation.

 -k

My theory is he had a stroke sometime in the early part of his term because the difference between his speech, gait and energy levels from the campaign to his presidency was huge.

That or he finally snorted enough Sudafed that it blew out his frontal lobe.

Anyway I have more confidence in him keeling over than running in 2024 OR facing any kind of real accountability for all the **** he did in office.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 18, 2020, 02:57:11 pm
It's a diaper thing
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 18, 2020, 04:00:04 pm
I suspect if the self pardon thingy doesn't work donny will end up with a criminal record.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on December 18, 2020, 04:26:47 pm
I suspect if the self pardon thingy doesn't work donny will end up with a criminal record.

As Biden would say: come on, man.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 18, 2020, 05:36:18 pm
There are reports of an Apprentice reboot!  Omg, I hope so!

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 18, 2020, 06:11:20 pm
Didn't watch it the first time and won't if there is another. Five years of all Trump all the time was far more than enough.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on December 18, 2020, 08:11:45 pm
There are reports of an Apprentice reboot!  Omg, I hope so!


Love to watch a doped up old fat guy slur out anecdotes about how he could have totally "had" Cheryl Tiegs in 1983 to an empty soundstage that will later be edited using deep fake technology to make it sound like he's actually in a room with Pauly D and Luther Campbell= asking them why their ice cream truck caught fire.


https://twitter.com/dave_norris/status/1324787784922615808?s=20
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 18, 2020, 08:31:01 pm
Love to watch a doped up old fat guy slur out anecdotes about how he could have totally "had" Cheryl Tiegs in 1983 to an empty soundstage that will later be edited using deep fake technology to make it sound like he's actually in a room with Pauly D and Luther Campbell= asking them why their ice cream truck caught fire.


https://twitter.com/dave_norris/status/1324787784922615808?s=20
I don’t know about all that stuff, but the Apprentice was a great show.

https://youtu.be/LJ6nOmAiwqo
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 18, 2020, 09:02:40 pm
I don’t know about all that stuff, but the Apprentice was a great show.

https://youtu.be/LJ6nOmAiwqo

Are you actually still supporting this **** Shady? sheesh
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 19, 2020, 10:27:56 pm
Remember a couple days ago when any American with an ounce of intel was saying Russia just did one of the largest cyber-attacks ever? 

Never mind all that...  China.   That’s right...   Trump says, without evidence and against the opinions of everyone who would actually know, that it was China. 

Why?  Cuz China.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5848888
Quote
Contradicting his secretary of state and other top officials, President Donald Trump on Saturday suggested without evidence that China — not Russia — may be behind the grave cyberattack against the United States and tried to minimize its impact.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 19, 2020, 10:52:20 pm
Remember a couple days ago when any American with an ounce of intel was saying Russia just did one of the largest cyber-attacks ever? 

Never mind all that...  China.   That’s right...   Trump says, without evidence and against the opinions of everyone who would actually know, that it was China. 

Why?  Cuz China.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5848888

Must be a strange place to work with such a brain dead moron as the boss. I wonder if he still brags about sexually assaulting women.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 22, 2020, 04:39:58 pm
Und der plot thickens.

https://www.ft.com/content/30df4a10-cf8d-49ae-bc46-f77dad01a276

https://www.reuters.com/article/deutsche-bank-rosemary-vrablic-idUSL4N2J23GE

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 22, 2020, 06:35:52 pm
If he lives to see 2024, I'll be shocked. The dude is a giant ball of gristle waiting to explode.

Trump probably has clones of himself made like Emperor Palpatine.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on December 22, 2020, 06:54:16 pm
Und der plot thickens.

https://www.ft.com/content/30df4a10-cf8d-49ae-bc46-f77dad01a276

https://www.reuters.com/article/deutsche-bank-rosemary-vrablic-idUSL4N2J23GE
Da da daaaa!

I doubt Trump's pardoning reach extends into Germany.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 22, 2020, 11:07:46 pm
Trump continues to demonstrate the quality of his character by issuing a multitude of pardons to well known criminals including x military men convicted of murdering civilians in Afghanistan. Is there anybody out there on this website who would dare to continue to make feeble attempts to support this ****? Shady, are ya listening? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 23, 2020, 10:35:41 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhFSIR7r7Yo
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 24, 2020, 09:04:13 am
Trump continues to demonstrate the quality of his character by issuing a multitude of pardons to well known criminals including x military men convicted of murdering civilians in Afghanistan. Is there anybody out there on this website who would dare to continue to make feeble attempts to support this ****? Shady, are ya listening?
You mean like Obama did?  You guys are buffoons. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 24, 2020, 10:52:28 am
You mean like Obama did?  You guys are buffoons.

as I read, Obama's late-term pardons (before leaving office) concentrated on non-violent offenders with long drug related sentences. More pointedly, Obama followed the formal process by involving the dedicated office that reviews/sanctions pardons. Of course Trump completely ignored the formal process/office while he undertook to pardon those he dangled pardons to (in exchange for their refusing to testify before Mueller), war criminals, corrupt politicians that supported him, etc., ... oh and getting ever so much closer to his direct family with the pardon to Jared Kushner's daddy! Stay tuned, many more Trumpy pardons to come!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 24, 2020, 11:17:06 am
It was hilarious when Shady ranted about how horrible Obama was for pardoning Rod Blagojevich. It was particularly satisfying when he lashed out at me for telling him it was actually Trump who pardoned him.  :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 24, 2020, 11:28:22 am
You mean like Obama did?  You guys are buffoons.

No, I mean like trump did. Obama excused mostly people with drug related charges. Not quite the same as convicted murderers wearing military uniforms.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 24, 2020, 11:44:42 am
Or people in his family who paid prostitutes to have sex with other family members so you can use that to extort them and make them lie to a grand jury.
That Trump family is seriously messed up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 24, 2020, 11:59:46 am
It was hilarious when Shady ranted about how horrible Obama was for pardoning Rod Blagojevich. It was particularly satisfying when he lashed out at me for telling him it was actually Trump who pardoned him.  :D

purrfect!  ;D

Trump's pardons of Rod Blagojevich and others meant to convince America corruption is OK (https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-s-pardons-rod-blagojevich-others-meant-convince-america-corruption-ncna1138876) --- By inuring the public to the harm of fraud and corruption, the president can convince his base of supporters that these are not serious crimes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 24, 2020, 12:20:31 pm
purrfect!  ;D

Trump's pardons of Rod Blagojevich and others meant to convince America corruption is OK (https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-s-pardons-rod-blagojevich-others-meant-convince-america-corruption-ncna1138876) --- By inuring the public to the harm of fraud and corruption, the president can convince his base of supporters that these are not serious crimes.
Now do the terrorist and the cop killer! LOL, oh my!

Why Did Obama Free This Terrorist?
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/oscar-lopez-commutation-barack-obama-214685
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 24, 2020, 12:31:47 pm
Now do the terrorist and the cop killer! LOL, oh my!

Lopez was never convicted of any violent crimes and Obama never pardoned him. So which cop did he kill?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 24, 2020, 12:36:09 pm
Lopez was never convicted of any violent crimes
Complete nonsense.

Oscar Lopez Rivera, the Puerto Rican nationalist who had served 35 years of a 55-year conviction for the crime of “seditious conspiracy,” as well as attempted robbery, explosives and vehicle-theft charges. Thanks to Obama’s intercession, Lopez will be freed in May.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/oscar-lopez-commutation-barack-obama-214685

Absolutely disgusting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 24, 2020, 12:36:47 pm
Now do the terrorist and the cop killer! LOL, oh my!

Why Did Obama Free This Terrorist?
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/oscar-lopez-commutation-barack-obama-214685

Reasonable question but a big difference between Trump's and Obama's pardons is that none of Obama's pardons were given to people convicted of crimes committed while acting for Obama. Many of Trump's pardons have been given to people who were convicted of crimes acting for him personally or his campaign.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 24, 2020, 12:39:19 pm
Reasonable question but a big difference between Trump's and Obama's pardons is that none of Obama's pardons were given to people convicted of crimes committed while acting for Obama. Many of Trump's pardons have been given to people who were convicted of crimes acting for him personally or his campaign.
How was Flynn acting for Trump?  How can you compare perjury with no underlying crime, to violent criminals and felons?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 24, 2020, 12:48:22 pm
Complete nonsense.

Oscar Lopez Rivera, the Puerto Rican nationalist who had served 35 years of a 55-year conviction for the crime of “seditious conspiracy,” as well as attempted robbery, explosives and vehicle-theft charges.
Absolutely disgusting.
Right. No violent crimes there. Are you avoiding talking about the cop killer allegation because you now realize your alt-right blogs lied to you and that didn't happen? How many times now have I had to correct your wild misinformation? It's getting a little tiresome but I still enjoy it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 24, 2020, 12:49:24 pm
How was Flynn acting for Trump?  How can you compare perjury with no underlying crime, to violent criminals and felons?

He was working for Trump and dealing with foreign governments for the administration. He lied about those dealings. The point is Trump is such a corrupt ahole that he has to pardon a bunch of people who were convicted of crimes acting for him personally, his administration or his campaign.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 24, 2020, 12:49:58 pm
How can you compare perjury with no underlying crime, to violent criminals and felons?
He's not. You are. But you had to lie about them being violent in order to make your strained point.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 24, 2020, 12:51:05 pm
Right. No violent crimes there. Are you avoiding talking about the cop killer allegation because you now realize your alt-right blogs lied to you and that didn't happen? How many times now have I had to correct your wild misinformation? It's getting a little tiresome but I still enjoy it.
Attempted robbery isn't violent?  In what world?  Explosives aren't violent?  Interesting.  Vehicle theft can't be violent?  Your continued bending of reality, logic and reason all because orange man is bad is getting ridiculous.  Although it past that point a long time ago.  This is just another level. #Sad
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 24, 2020, 12:51:20 pm
member Shady whataboutism!  ;D Geezaz, Trump has pardoned/commuted sentences of 50+ people just in the last few days - some of the worst of the worst... war criminals included!

hey lil' buddy, when do the pardons for Uday, Qusay and Javanka come out... and then, of course, Trump pardoning himself?

and as mentioned, Rivera wasn't pardoned - he had a sentence commutation, having already served 35 years of a 55 year sentence. Facts matter, hey!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 24, 2020, 12:54:10 pm
He was working for Trump and dealing with foreign governments for the administration. He lied about those dealings. The point is Trump is such a corrupt ahole that he has to pardon a bunch of people who were convicted of crimes acting for him personally, his administration or his campaign.
There was no administration at the point of his interview and perjury.  There was no underlying crime.  It was a fishing expedition based on FISA warrants obtained by the FBI through falsified material.  One FBI official has already been charged with falsifying documents.  Those kind of police state tactics should worry you, because if they can do that to Flynn, they can do that to anyone, and most people don't have the means to fight back.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 24, 2020, 12:55:55 pm
member Shady whataboutism!  ;D Geezaz, Trump has pardoned/commuted sentences of 50+ people just in the last few days - some of the worst of the worst... war criminals included!

hey lil' buddy, when do the pardons for Uday, Qusay and Javanka come out... and then, of course, Trump pardoning himself?

and as mentioned, Rivera wasn't pardoned - he had a sentence commutation, having already served 35 years of a 55 year sentence. Facts matter, hey!
Did Rivera go free because of Obama?  Yep.  Stop making excuses for bad behavior.  Your phony outrage over Trumps pardons is proven phony by your lack of any outrage of past even worse pardons.  You, and the rest of your Trump derangementers need to seek professional help.  It's getting out of hand.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 24, 2020, 01:02:41 pm
Did Rivera go free because of Obama?  Yep.  Stop making excuses for bad behavior.  Your phony outrage over Trumps pardons is proven phony by your lack of any outrage of past even worse pardons.  You, and the rest of your Trump derangementers need to seek professional help.  It's getting out of hand.

no outrage here lil' buddy! Are there any worse pardons than what Trump has put forward in the last couple of days? C'mon unleash the member ShadyWhataboutism!

Pardons Granted by President Donald Trump (2017 - Present) (https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-donald-trump)

Commutations granted by President Donald Trump (2017 - Present) (https://www.justice.gov/pardon/commutations-granted-president-donald-trump-2017-present)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 24, 2020, 01:09:36 pm
no outrage here lil' buddy! Are there any worse pardons than what Trump has put forward in the last couple of days? C'mon unleash the member ShadyWhataboutism!

Pardons Granted by President Donald Trump (2017 - Present) (https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-donald-trump)

Commutations granted by President Donald Trump (2017 - Present) (https://www.justice.gov/pardon/commutations-granted-president-donald-trump-2017-present)
I think you mean, are there any worse pardons than Obama's pardon of a violent terrorist?! 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 24, 2020, 01:14:47 pm
I think you mean, are there any worse pardons than Obama's pardon of a violent terrorist?!

you dumbShyte! Try reading before you reply; again, the guy was not pardoned... he had his 55 year sentence commuted to time served - 35 years.

now you do the Trump pardon of those 4 (former U.S. military) Blackwater "contractor patriots" that killed 17 Iraqi civilians and wounded another 20+
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 24, 2020, 02:06:31 pm
you dumbShyte! Try reading before you reply; again, the guy was not pardoned... he had his 55 year sentence commuted to time served - 35 years.

now you do the Trump pardon of those 4 (former U.S. military) Blackwater "contractor patriots" that killed 17 Iraqi civilians and wounded another 20+
Yes, he let a convicted violent terrorist free, out of jail.  What about that don't you understand?  Are you trying to slide by on semantics again?  I bet the families of his victims couldn't care less about your semantics.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 24, 2020, 02:06:51 pm
There was no administration at the point of his interview and perjury.  There was no underlying crime.  It was a fishing expedition based on FISA warrants obtained by the FBI through falsified material.  One FBI official has already been charged with falsifying documents.  Those kind of police state tactics should worry you, because if they can do that to Flynn, they can do that to anyone, and most people don't have the means to fight back.

Flynn was a senior advisor for the Trump campaign, both when he was interviewed and when the incidents he lied about took place. The FBI interview took place on January 24, 2017, two days after he was sworn in as National Security Advisor. He plead guilty.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 24, 2020, 02:13:33 pm
Flynn was a senior advisor for the Trump campaign, both when he was interviewed and when the incidents he lied about took place. The FBI interview took place on January 24, 2017, two days after he was sworn in as National Security Advisor. He plead guilty.
Yes he was, and he was also a private citizen. that committed no crime.  He was interviewed about non-crimes.  It was all contained in the documentation released this year.  The FBI already knew he hadn't committed any crimes.  But that wasn't the point of the interview.  it was to get him to have enough inconsistencies in his story to prosecute him.  Prosecute him not for breaking the law with an underlying crime, but specifically and ONLY perjury.  And the reason why he was caught up in being spied on by the FBI, was because they obtained FISA warrants on Carter Page.  FISA warrants based on fraudulent information.  You should be up in arms about the abuse of power by the FBI, not the other way around.

Honestly, how can you defend this kind of abuse?  It's disgusting.

A former FBI lawyer pleaded guilty Wednesday to altering a document related to the secret surveillance of a former Trump campaign adviser during the Russia investigation.

https://apnews.com/article/b9b3c7ef398d00d5dfee9170d66cefec
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 24, 2020, 02:17:38 pm
He committed two crimes, lying to the FBI and perjury. He plead guilty.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 24, 2020, 02:20:01 pm
He committed two crimes, lying to the FBI and perjury. He plead guilty.
That's one crime, with no underlying crime.  Based on illegal spying based on warrants obtained through falsified information.  You really should expect more from law enforcement.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 24, 2020, 02:26:16 pm
Yes, he let a convicted violent terrorist free, out of jail.  What about that don't you understand?  Are you trying to slide by on semantics again?  I bet the families of his victims couldn't care less about your semantics.

After 35 years behind bars shady, which you seem to try to ignore, only to make yourself look a little dumber. It seems you fail to comprehend the difference between a pardon and sentence commutation. Maybe study up a little before commenting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 24, 2020, 02:28:23 pm
After 35 years behind bars shady, which you seem to try to ignore, only to make yourself look a little dumber. It seems you fail to comprehend the difference between a pardon and sentence commutation. Maybe study up a little before commenting.
Well, I certainly understand letting a violent terrorist free from jail vs pardoning somebody for saying something.  At some point, you people need to stop letting orange man bad influence all of your decisions.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 24, 2020, 02:28:54 pm
I think it's safe to say that we're just not going to agree.  So we can agree to disagree.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 24, 2020, 02:34:23 pm
Well, I certainly understand letting a violent terrorist free from jail vs pardoning somebody for saying something.  At some point, you people need to stop letting orange man bad influence all of your decisions.

So you're OK with a convicted murderer(s) being pardoned. Perhaps if orange man would stop making such ridiculous, dangerously stupid decisions it would stop influencing sane peoples decisions. Just look at the shyte he is still flogging today, still jacking off on some whacked out idea of a coup. Even fellow republicans are trying to shut him up to no avail.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 24, 2020, 02:38:14 pm
Well, I certainly understand letting a violent terrorist free from jail vs pardoning somebody for saying something.  At some point, you people need to stop letting orange man bad influence all of your decisions.
You gave up on the "cop killer" line when you found out whoever told you that was lying? Still, Lopez was never convicted of a violent crime or terrorism. He was there primarily for sedition, like those 126 Republicans committed last week.
So you were disgusted by Trump's pardon of Blagojevich when you thought Obama did it. But how do you feel about Trump pardoning the Blackwater guys that murdered civilian children? Would that too only be bad if Obama did it?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 24, 2020, 02:54:52 pm
You gave up on the "cop killer" line when you found out whoever told you that was lying? Still, Lopez was never convicted of a violent crime or terrorism. He was there primarily for sedition, like those 126 Republicans committed last week.
So you were disgusted by Trump's pardon of Blagojevich when you thought Obama did it. But how do you feel about Trump pardoning the Blackwater guys that murdered civilian children? Would that too only be bad if Obama did it?
Sorry, but robbery, explosives and car theft are violence crimes.  I've linked you to the Politico piece several times.  They refer to him as a very violent terrorist. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 24, 2020, 03:05:13 pm
Sorry, but robbery, explosives and car theft are violence crimes.  I've linked you to the Politico piece several times.  They refer to him as a very violent terrorist.

You're once again flogging a dead horse. The pardon of the Blackwater murderers will top the list unless and until the US elects another sicko such as your buddy trump. Let's hope they have learned a lesson.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 24, 2020, 03:26:03 pm
Sorry, but robbery, explosives and car theft are violence crimes.  I've linked you to the Politico piece several times.  They refer to him as a very violent terrorist.
Property crimes are violent now? He wasn't convicted for any bombings and your attempt to call him a cop killer was hilarious. He was in jail for 36 years. Long enough considering you can't name sn individual he was violent towards.
So you just want to pretend that Blackwater pardon didn't happen then? I don't blame you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 26, 2020, 05:49:31 pm
Sorry, but robbery, explosives and car theft are violence crimes.  I've linked you to the Politico piece several times.  They refer to him as a very violent terrorist.
There seem to be 3 things that Shady does not seem to comprehend...

1) A person can only be sentenced for the crimes they were charged with.

It does not matter if people described people as a 'very violent terrorist'. He was not linked to specific bombings. He was imprisoned for possession of explosives, but possession is not itself a violent crime.

2) Non-violent crime... is still crime.

Shady attempted to ignore the crimes of those pardoned by Trump, such as downplaying Flynn's lying to the FBI. But the fact is, that is still a crime... It harms society. It causes the government to waste resources because of his dishonesty.

Flynn plead guilty to that. As such, he deserves to be punished.

3) Commuting a sentence is not Pardoning.

Yes, Lopez was convicted of some serious crimes. And he deserved to be in jail because of that. And he was in jail. For decades. His crimes were not ignored... he was punished, and quite severely. He wasn't released until he was in his 70s. Now, if someone wants to argue "His punishment should have continued", fine...

But compare that to Trump's pardoning of Flynn, Stone, etc. In those cases, those individuals WILL NOT BE PUNISHED AT ALL. They harmed society, and Trump and the MAGAchuds are saying "Its perfectly fine". The only way that the 2 situations would be comparable is of Trump actually allowed them to be jailed, but then just shortened their sentence. But he didn't do that.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 26, 2020, 05:55:38 pm
So donny trump **** off to play a little golf since he is in a bit of a snit because the voters kicked his ass out, and while the country continues to face a serious crisis from Covid. He wants to somehow create a coup to overturn the will of the people to keep himself in office. Then there's what looks like a terrorist explosion and Tennessee and the useless prick ignores that too. I hope he slips and shoves a 9 iron up his fat stupid ass. I can;t say I'm a huge Biden fan but if I were an American I'd probably be thankful to vote for anyone who is not an extreme narcissist and can string an intelligent few sentences together.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 29, 2020, 07:01:09 pm
I think I’ve found peak Trump derangement syndrome!  Presidential historian points out that even Andrew Johnson never tweeted heroic videos of himself! 😂🤣

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 29, 2020, 07:02:28 pm
Technically he’s right!  Andrew Johnson never used Twitter! 🤣😂
You Trump Haters never fail to entertain!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 29, 2020, 07:09:45 pm
Technically he’s right!  Andrew Johnson never used Twitter! 🤣😂
You Trump Haters never fail to entertain!

Poor shady, once again just doesn't get it. Anyway, are you contributing part of your hard earned paycheck there shady to trumpty dumpty's re election idea? I wouldn't be surprised. How does that ole saying go about a fool and his money...? ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 29, 2020, 09:14:49 pm
How’s ‘Operation Slow Speed’ going?   The Trump admin is at 10% of what they promised in terms of vaccinations. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 29, 2020, 10:16:59 pm
How’s ‘Operation Slow Speed’ going?   The Trump admin is at 10% of what they promised in terms of vaccinations.
Better than Juniors operation maple syrup!  😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 29, 2020, 11:07:32 pm
How’s ‘Operation Slow Speed’ going?   The Trump admin is at 10% of what they promised in terms of vaccinations.

Hey now being in charge of a country with one of the highest death rates suring a pandemic can be very stressful. Donny needs a few weeks of playing golf to relieve himself of all that pressure.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 29, 2020, 11:41:01 pm
Better than Juniors operation maple syrup!  😂

Nope. Wrong again shady. Try harder maybe.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/09/canada-coronavirus-us-justin-trudeau-donald-trump
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 29, 2020, 11:48:51 pm
Hey now being in charge of a country with one of the highest death rates suring a pandemic can be very stressful. Donny needs a few weeks of playing golf to relieve himself of all that pressure.
It’s not one of the highest death rates.  You don’t know what you’re talking about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 29, 2020, 11:50:47 pm
Nope. Wrong again shady. Try harder maybe.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/09/canada-coronavirus-us-justin-trudeau-donald-trump
That’s a great opinion piece from July 9th nimrod.  Here’s the real data as of December 13th.  America’s covid fatality rate is a full percentage point below ours.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 30, 2020, 12:16:02 am
That’s a great opinion piece from July 9th nimrod.  Here’s the real data as of December 13th.  America’s covid fatality rate is a full percentage point below ours.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country

You really do meed a math course shady. The US death rate from Covid is about double ours.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/covid-19-us-canada-death-rates-1.5553168

The U.S. has a COVID-19 mortality rate about twice that of Canada's, with more than 200 deaths per million versus a little over 100 per million in Canada.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 30, 2020, 11:18:36 am
That’s a great opinion piece from July 9th nimrod.  Here’s the real data as of December 13th.  America’s covid fatality rate is a full percentage point below ours.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country
You are talking about the case fatality rate.

Yes, Canada's case fatality rate is higher than that of the U.S. But that statistic has some significant problems:

- There are outside factors that affect it. For example, Canada's life expectancy is almost 4 years higher than the United States. We also have a higher percentage of people with chronic diseases (such as heart disease). Both of which mean that when an individual does contract covid, they are more likely to die, even if we do a better job at controlling the spread of the disease and/or have similar protocols for treating it

See:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-19-heart-stroke-1.5652003

- There are questions about the accuracy of some of the death statistics coming out of the U.S.

See:
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-florida-coronavirus-deaths-delays-explanation-20201024-jb2qc2plcvedzi6hg2e4rq2bke-story.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on December 30, 2020, 04:13:24 pm
That’s a great opinion piece from July 9th nimrod.  Here’s the real data as of December 13th.  America’s covid fatality rate is a full percentage point below ours.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country

The most wealthy and powerful country in the world is doing slightly better at managing a pandemic than North Macedonia and a bunch of other countries you've probably never even heard of? USA! USA!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 30, 2020, 05:34:03 pm
Canada is 16th in the world when it comes to life expectancy, The US is 46th.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 31, 2020, 12:06:25 am
“20 million vaccinations by the end of December” - Vice President Pence

So far...  2 million.   I guess they have tomorrow still.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 31, 2020, 12:45:09 am
(https://i.imgur.com/54BDcZe.jpg)

just imagine what this 'silent...no more' clown has in mind in terms of continuing to (attempt to) control the narrative! Who will makeup the next cadre of enablers within the political and media ranks?

(https://i.imgur.com/lc4jmLq.png)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 31, 2020, 06:39:46 am
3.3 trillion...let's see that's 3.3 and then how many zeros?! Oh, I'll just ask donny trump, he'll know since that's the deficit he has run up during his first, and hopefully only term in office. I thought he was supposed to be a good business man? Apparently he fails there as well as at politics. Oh well he did finally head home from the golf course to at least try to make a last ditch attempt to appear worthy of his office. I hope at least he did better at golf. ::)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 31, 2020, 08:44:22 am
3.3 trillion...let's see that's 3.3 and then how many zeros?! Oh, I'll just ask donny trump, he'll know since that's the deficit he has run up during his first, and hopefully only term in office. I thought he was supposed to be a good business man? Apparently he fails there as well as at politics. Oh well he did finally head home from the golf course to at least try to make a last ditch attempt to appear worthy of his office. I hope at least he did better at golf. ::)
Admittedly, if it were any other president, I might have some sympathy... during any sort of economic down turn (such as that caused by Covid) you would expect deficits to increase. (That should be the pattern... you cut the deficits/debt in strong economic times, let them grow in troubled times.)

However, I do not think Trump deserves sympathy here, because:
- Much of the economic hardship caused by the pandemic was caused by his poor leadership, allowing the virus to spread more than it should
- The deficit started to grow long before the pandemic (thanks to the Republican "tax breaks for millionaires" program)

(I feel the same way about the Trudeau government.... their spending to address covid19 was understandable, their inability to address the deficit prior to that deserves scorn)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 31, 2020, 10:50:09 am
“20 million vaccinations by the end of December” - Vice President Pence
So far...  2 million.   I guess they have tomorrow still.
They are certainly falling short in their plans to administer the vaccine.

Sadly though, they are not alone. And they are doing much better than Canada in that regard... they have vaccinated .84% of the population, we've vaccinated .23%.... less than 1/3rd the rate. (Despite the fact that we approved the Pfizer vaccine days before the U.S. did.)

The only country that really seems to have a handle on it is Israel, who  has already vaccinated more than 9% of its population.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 31, 2020, 11:40:24 am
such a conMan! Named "Man of the Year 2020" by what was an obscure product originally launched years back as distinct separate publications per respective African countries; one that hasn't published anything in 4 years... now relegated to a one-man blog! A "great honor" says Trumpy!  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/LajHAmG.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 31, 2020, 11:58:22 am
pardon-proof state level prosecutions of Trump: Dec 29 - Washington Post

(https://i.imgur.com/e6mr8Er.png)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on December 31, 2020, 12:04:41 pm
such a conMan! Named "Man of the Year 2020" by what was an obscure product originally launched years back as distinct separate publications per respective African countries; one that hasn't published anything in 4 years... now relegated to a one-man blog! A "great honor" says Trumpy!  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/LajHAmG.png)

Well then maybe the US should get Air Force 1 to make a final trumpy trip and drop him off in Africa somewhere. I'm thinking perhaps Ouagadoudougu. It's quite flat there so he could take his golf club along and practice learning to spell out his return mail address.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on December 31, 2020, 12:15:29 pm
They are certainly falling short in their plans to administer the vaccine.

Sadly though, they are not alone. And they are doing much better than Canada in that regard... they have vaccinated .84% of the population, we've vaccinated .23%.... less than 1/3rd the rate. (Despite the fact that we approved the Pfizer vaccine days before the U.S. did.)

The only country that really seems to have a handle on it is Israel, who  has already vaccinated more than 9% of its population.

Our promises were much less ambitious. It was 125,000 people by Dec 31, and 3,000,000 by March 31. It isn't supposed to really ramp up here until April.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 31, 2020, 02:08:31 pm
Our promises were much less ambitious. It was 125,000 people by Dec 31, and 3,000,000 by March 31. It isn't supposed to really ramp up here until April.
True, we didn't promise as much... But that makes it even more annoying that we couldn't even meet our more realistic goals.

We will likely be well under 100k by the end of today (Dec31).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on December 31, 2020, 04:48:41 pm
True, we didn't promise as much... But that makes it even more annoying that we couldn't even meet our more realistic goals.

We will likely be well under 100k by the end of today (Dec31).

We may make 100k - about 96.5 as of this minute.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on December 31, 2020, 05:31:04 pm
We may make 100k - about 96.5 as of this minute.

99,946 as of now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 31, 2020, 06:00:56 pm
BUt wHy HaSN’t hE COnDemNEd It yEt!!!  This is why you wait until all the information comes out, morons.

Nashville Bomber Linked To “Lizard People” Myth, Investigators Say
https://news.yahoo.com/nashville-bomber-linked-to-lizard-people-myth-investigators-say
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 01, 2021, 02:46:32 pm
99,946 as of now.

Wrong place, I know, but the provinces are finally are getting their asses into gear. As of now, the number is over 108,000.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 01, 2021, 03:27:32 pm
Trump loses bigly even among his own crew in the senate with his bill 230 and the accompanying bullshyte. how's donny gonna build his stupid wall now. Come to think of it, I guess he has built one he wasn't hoping for. Oh well, he'll have even more time to play golf (that game he said at one time he wouldn't have time for) coming up pretty soon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 03, 2021, 12:25:51 am
Wrong place, I know, but the provinces are finally are getting their asses into gear. As of now, the number is over 108,000.
Hopefully some of the states will get their asses into gear too.  New York is sitting on two thirds of the vaccines that were distributed to them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 03, 2021, 01:03:51 am
Hopefully some of the states will get their asses into gear too.  New York is sitting on two thirds of the vaccines that were distributed to them.

Trump golfs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 03, 2021, 01:17:08 pm
Hopefully some of the states will get their asses into gear too.  New York is sitting on two thirds of the vaccines that were distributed to them.

Similar problem. Over the weekend, so far, a paltry 5,000 doses were administered. There are over 500,000 doses arriving in the next two weeks.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 03, 2021, 10:41:56 pm
Looks like Stubby McBonespurs is planning on giving the presidential medal of freedom to republican politicians and bootlickers Devin Nunes (the man who tried to sue a cow) and Gym Jordan (who never met a sexual assault he couldn't ignore.)

They join such other notable recipients as Rush Lympthnode (The drug addict who mocked Parkinson's sufferers.)

Our only hope is that during the awards ceremony, Trump wanders off in a befuddled stupor (you know, like someone suffering from dementia)

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics/donald-trump-medal-of-freedom/index.html
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/watch-trump-walk-out-of-medal-of-freedom-ceremony.html


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 03, 2021, 10:52:19 pm
Looks like Stubby McBonespurs is planning on giving the presidential medal of freedom to republican politicians and bootlickers Devin Nunes (the man who tried to sue a cow) and Gym Jordan (who never met a sexual assault he couldn't ignore.)

They join such other notable recipients as Rush Lympthnode (The drug addict who mocked Parkinson's sufferers.)

Our only hope is that during the awards ceremony, Trump wanders off in a befuddled stupor (you know, like someone suffering from dementia)

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics/donald-trump-medal-of-freedom/index.html
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/watch-trump-walk-out-of-medal-of-freedom-ceremony.html

It appears that donny is in a befuddled stupor on a  daily basis. The phone conversation we are now hearing is strongly indicative of that. As I've said before, Jan. 20 should be a good time to have the popcorn ready to go.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 04, 2021, 10:02:23 am
Looks like Stubby McBonespurs is planning on giving the presidential medal of freedom to republican politicians and bootlickers Devin Nunes (the man who tried to sue a cow) and Gym Jordan (who never met a sexual assault he couldn't ignore.)

They join such other notable recipients as Rush Lympthnode (The drug addict who mocked Parkinson's sufferers.)

Our only hope is that during the awards ceremony, Trump wanders off in a befuddled stupor (you know, like someone suffering from dementia)

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics/donald-trump-medal-of-freedom/index.html
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/watch-trump-walk-out-of-medal-of-freedom-ceremony.html

One thing I'm looking forward to in 2021 is Rush Limbaugh dying a hopefully slow and painful death.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 05, 2021, 10:03:43 am
So Stubby McBonespurs was planning on visiting his golf resort in Scotland (thus missing Biden's inauguration.)

Well, looks like he won't be able to.

From: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-news-twitter-latest-updates-live-biden-b1782433.html
Donald Trump's hopes of escaping to play golf at his Turnberry resort in Scotland rather than attend the inauguration of Joe Biden in Washington on 20 January have been dashed by the country’s first minister, Nicola Stugeon, who says he will not be allowed to enter due to new lockdown measures.

First he gets told by politicians in Georgia that they won't flip the election for him, then he gets told he can't go to Scotland.... I hope Trump gets used to being told "No".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 05, 2021, 11:12:10 pm
First he gets told by politicians in Georgia that they won't flip the election for him, then he gets told he can't go to Scotland.... I hope Trump gets used to being told "No".

Scotland?  What are their extradition rules like?

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 05, 2021, 11:20:51 pm
So Stubby McBonespurs was planning on visiting his golf resort in Scotland (thus missing Biden's inauguration.)

Well, looks like he won't be able to.

From: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-news-twitter-latest-updates-live-biden-b1782433.html
Donald Trump's hopes of escaping to play golf at his Turnberry resort in Scotland rather than attend the inauguration of Joe Biden in Washington on 20 January have been dashed by the country’s first minister, Nicola Stugeon, who says he will not be allowed to enter due to new lockdown measures.

First he gets told by politicians in Georgia that they won't flip the election for him, then he gets told he can't go to Scotland.... I hope Trump gets used to being told "No".

I guess he'll have to go straight to the safe third country.

On a related note, how would the Secret Service protect someone while they're in prison?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 05, 2021, 11:45:58 pm
On a related note, how would the Secret Service protect someone while they're in prison?
Not sure if the plans have been worked out for that particular situation.

From: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/would-a-former-president-get-secret-service-protection-in-prison.html
...responsibility of the Secret Service to protect a former president or first lady would not disappear because that person had been convicted of a crime....any potential details of such an arrangement are mysterious even to Secret Service veterans and other experts on the agency.
...
It’s possible the Secret Service would deploy a protective detail at the facility, with agents stationed in the cellblock, the prison yard, or otherwise in the vicinity....Another option for the Secret Service would be to hand off its protective responsibilities to the Bureau of Prisons or appropriate state-level Department of Corrections....It’s possible that Congress would pass a law that stripped the incarcerated former president or first lady of their protection....A former president or first lady could also make the choice to forgo Secret Service protection.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 06, 2021, 12:52:17 am
Trump is now trying to instruct Pence to somehow interfere with the EC official vote he will preside over tomorrow. Apparently the current POTUS hasn't bothered to read the constitution of the country he presides over. Mind you his relatively low IQ and somewhat childish attention span could well explain why.  I must say I'm interested to see what silly antics trump engages in in the next 2 weeks before they escort him out the door.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 06, 2021, 02:26:57 am
Trump is now trying to instruct Pence to somehow interfere with the EC official vote he will preside over tomorrow. Apparently the current POTUS hasn't bothered to read the constitution of the country he presides over. Mind you his relatively low IQ and somewhat childish attention span could well explain why.  I must say I'm interested to see what silly antics trump engages in in the next 2 weeks before they escort him out the door.
And supposedly Pence has told Trump there was nothing he can do.

From: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/05/politics/mike-pence-donald-trump-congress-election/index.html
Vice President Mike Pence on Tuesday told President Donald Trump that he does not have the authority to block certification of President-elect Joe Biden's win...The President is now angry with Pence following their meeting...Trump may "lash out" at his vice president on Wednesday

I certainly hope Pence does get targeted by both Stubby McBonespurs, and his gang of MAGAchuds, as a reminder to everyone that regardless of how often you act as Trump's bootlicker, you should never expect to receive any sort of respect or loyalty.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 06, 2021, 05:36:59 am
Well, it's on...

If it's true that Pence does it properly, they're going to hate him.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on January 06, 2021, 08:10:55 am
I haven't heard anyone speculate what would happen if Pence does just refuse to accept the results.

Like, what happens? Will there have to be a court case or is there a safeguard in place.

Trump may need Pence to pardon him, so isolating him in the waning days of his presidency may not be a good idea.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 06, 2021, 10:25:32 am
I haven't heard anyone speculate what would happen if Pence does just refuse to accept the results.

Like, what happens? Will there have to be a court case or is there a safeguard in place.

Trump may need Pence to pardon him, so isolating him in the waning days of his presidency may not be a good idea.

I heard that there would be a motion to bring someone else in... TO READ THE VOTES.  It doesn't say anywhere he can decide what to do unilaterally that would give democracy over to one person.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on January 06, 2021, 07:56:23 pm
I guess Putin is rejoicing in the near perfect execution of his long term foreign policy strategy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 06, 2021, 08:41:07 pm
Members of the cabinet are talking about invoking the 25th Amendment, and or resigning.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 06, 2021, 09:00:15 pm
Members of the cabinet are talking about invoking the 25th Amendment, and or resigning.

They’re not....   no way the Magats would ever turn on their dear leader.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 06, 2021, 09:07:32 pm
They’re not....   no way the Magats would ever turn on their dear leader.

They were never MAGAts... they are opportunists and this may be the best way to jettison the unwashed one and salvage a future....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 06, 2021, 10:15:22 pm
They were never MAGAts... they are opportunists and this may be the best way to jettison the unwashed one and salvage a future....
You're too charitable. They're a school of rogue piranha that's got nothing else to feast on but itself. Let it gorge, there'll be survivors. Conservatives may go out of style from time to time but they never go extinct.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 06, 2021, 10:23:54 pm
Members of the cabinet are talking about invoking the 25th Amendment, and or resigning.

It would be good if they didn't resign because they're needed to invoke the 25th.  They can simply refuse to follow certain orders if Trump makes them do funky things.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 06, 2021, 10:31:15 pm
I guess if anyone thinks the 25th is somehow not applicable to Trump, then perhaps it should be applied to them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 06, 2021, 10:39:26 pm
The Chad Salvador Allende vs the Virgin Donald Trump
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 07, 2021, 09:20:34 am
You're too charitable. They're a school of rogue piranha that's got nothing else to feast on but itself. Let it gorge, there'll be survivors. Conservatives may go out of style from time to time but they never go extinct.

It's not charitable to tag an opportunist, any more than it is for a field scientist to tag a deer.  Just helps recognize them.

Oh... sorry... piranha... you're a sea man... I roam the fields... I apologize...

Change field scientist to marine biologist and deer to ... pirahna ... come to think of it deer didn't match ... I could have gone harder than deer ....

We're looking at the dusk of the Reagan era now... it started with a movie star and ended with a reality TV star...

Puerto Rico and DC will be states... the oldies will continue to die... and the Democrats will have 20 years of rule...

Well maybe...

In any case, the conservatives need to survive and be the opposition for what is left... hey !  what is "left" !  ;D

So... what is left will hopefully de-emphasize identity politics and re-emphasize the economy, which is to say rebalance the fiscal insantity in favour of people who work for a living, and away from this types:

(https://i2.wp.com/media.globalnews.ca/videostatic/news/tgxy7vwk9k-g12uluabjv/couple_with_guns.jpg?w=1040&quality=70&strip=all)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on January 07, 2021, 09:23:32 am
I guess if anyone thinks the 25th is somehow not applicable to Trump, then perhaps it should be applied to them.

Apparently that requires 2/3 of both Houses to agree once Trump objects to it.

Not going to happen. I think Pence is effectively governing right now.

Trump has likely lost any support he has in Washington after yesterday. The first paragraph of the Trump Presidency will forever have January 6th, 2021 on it. I suspect his supplicants in Congress would prefer that not follow them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 07, 2021, 09:44:34 am
Trump has likely lost any support he has in Washington after yesterday. The first paragraph of the Trump Presidency will forever have January 6th, 2021 on it. I suspect his supplicants in Congress would prefer that not follow them.

The second paragraph will talk about the inevitable half million Americans that he helped kill.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 07, 2021, 11:37:31 am
The second paragraph will talk about the inevitable half million Americans that he helped kill.
Trump needed his allies in the GOP to help him accomplish this.

I can't believe what an uphill fight it is to keep reiterating that Trump is the effect not the cause.  If conservatism and the GOP manage to escape their guilt in having produced the conditions in which Trump could thrive nothing will have been accomplished in terms of coming to understand how to avoid the same thing from happening again and again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 07, 2021, 12:26:24 pm
Trump needed his allies in the GOP to help him accomplish this.

I can't believe what an uphill fight it is to keep reiterating that Trump is the effect not the cause.  If conservatism and the GOP manage to escape their guilt in having produced the conditions in which Trump could thrive nothing will have been accomplished in terms of coming to understand how to avoid the same thing from happening again and again.

It's not just that they helped create him, they enabled him every step of the way and used him to get the only things they care about, which is control of the judiciary and tax cuts for the rich.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 07, 2021, 12:36:03 pm
Quote
I guess if anyone thinks the 25th is somehow not applicable to Trump, then perhaps it should be applied to them.
Apparently that requires 2/3 of both Houses to agree once Trump objects to it.
I could be wrong about this (since I am going from memory and don't have a chance to research this)....

You are right, in that Congress would have to agree to keep the 25th amendment in place if Trump objects. However, I believe it is possible for congressional leaders to delay any sort of vote on the issue (at least for a week or 2). So, even if Trump objects, and has enough congressional support to overturn the 25th, it wouldn't be until after Biden takes power anyways.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 07, 2021, 12:36:32 pm
It's not just that they helped create him, they enabled him every step of the way and used him to get the only things they care about, which is control of the judiciary and tax cuts for the rich.
I guess it remains to be seen how much these will matter depending on how determined Democrats are.  It shouldn't be hard given the break between Republicans and Trump. I heard an analyst on the tube the other night saying the GOP can count on alienating up to 40% of their base by abandoning Trump.

Go Trump Go!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 07, 2021, 12:40:35 pm
I guess it remains to be seen how much these will matter depending on how determined Democrats are.  It shouldn't be hard given the break between Republicans and Trump. I heard an analyst on the tube the other night saying the GOP can count on alienating up to 40% of their base by abandoning Trump.

Go Trump Go!

They will 100% **** it up.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 07, 2021, 02:51:35 pm
They will 100% **** it up.

It’s not really in their hands....   this is only in the hands of Pence and Trump’s handpicked Cabinet. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 07, 2021, 03:18:37 pm
It’s not really in their hands....   this is only in the hands of Pence and Trump’s handpicked Cabinet.

I'm talking about the broader goal of holding Trump and his enablers accountable. They ain't gonna do ****.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 07, 2021, 06:49:10 pm
Trump will be there until the 20th but he will be cut out of the loop as much as possible by his staff and Pence. Trump has zero credibility with anyone outside of his core diehard supporters. Not even his own staff support him, those that are staying are only doing so to limit the amount of damage he can do. I'm less worried about Trump having the codes than I was when he was riding high. I just don't see the military launching a first strike for a demented Trump less than two weeks before he gets evicted.

Miss Nancy is playing the long game, she will pursue 25 and impeachment so that if Tump goes haywire before the 20th, she can say that she did what she could and it is all on the Republicans.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 07, 2021, 07:24:33 pm
Trump is not only a stupid **** he is also a criminal: he helped stoke the fires of the march by his idiot followers to the capitol. Throw the prick in jail and let the US get on with a more normal life. Or are they just gone stupid? Maybe we ned that wall.

Trump's "Save America Rally" included the president telling supporters to "stop the steal" of the election, urging them to head to the Capitol to demonstrate against Congress certifying President-elect Joe Biden's victory. Among the crowd's battle cries was, "Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump!"

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-told-supporters-stormed-capitol-hill/story?id=75110558
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 07, 2021, 07:29:26 pm
13 more days in office. WTF else could  this scary idiot do I wonder? War on Iran?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 07, 2021, 07:50:21 pm
Trump is not only a stupid **** he is also a criminal: he helped stoke the fires of the march by his idiot followers to the capitol. Throw the prick in jail and let the US get on with a more normal life. Or are they just gone stupid? Maybe we ned that wall.

Trump's "Save America Rally" included the president telling supporters to "stop the steal" of the election, urging them to head to the Capitol to demonstrate against Congress certifying President-elect Joe Biden's victory. Among the crowd's battle cries was, "Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump!"
And now, Stubby McBonesuprs posted a video where he is now condemning the rioters and talking about arresting them.

So he has gone from "Come to Washington", to "I love you", and now "You will be arrested". So, to nobody's surprise, he has turned on a group of his supporters and thrown them under the bus. (Not that they didn't deserve it, but its always nice to see it when Trump dumps on former fans.)

Of course, not that I really trust what Trump said in the video... I suspect it was only posted to try to stave off any talk of the 25th amendment ("Hey, don't kick me out of office. I behaved like a prick for 4 years and whipped up people to the point where violence was inevitable, but I posted a 2 minute video. So we're good... m'kay?") And I suspect that we'll see Trump flip-flop once again, praising the terrorists, maybe even pardoning them.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-concedes-1.5865609
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 08, 2021, 04:01:30 pm
In case you missed all the fun last time, it looks like we're heading for Donald Trump's Impeachment: The Sequel...

From: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/house-democrats-impeachment-plans/index.html
House Democrats are planning to introduce an impeachment resolution on Monday...though Democrats have not committed yet to holding such a vote. The latest draft...includes one article of impeachment for "incitement of insurrection."

Unfortunately, even if the Democrats manage to fast-track this through the house, once it gets to the senate Moscow Mitch would likely delay it, and the senate would probably have to deal with it at the same time that Biden is trying to get his cabinet confirmed.

(And of course, House republicans are claiming that impeachment will "Divide the country", as if having Stubby McBonespurs trying to overturn the election isn't already doing that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 08, 2021, 04:11:30 pm
In case you missed all the fun last time, it looks like we're heading for Donald Trump's Impeachment: The Sequel...

From: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/house-democrats-impeachment-plans/index.html
House Democrats are planning to introduce an impeachment resolution on Monday...though Democrats have not committed yet to holding such a vote. The latest draft...includes one article of impeachment for "incitement of insurrection."

Unfortunately, even if the Democrats manage to fast-track this through the house, once it gets to the senate Moscow Mitch would likely delay it, and the senate would probably have to deal with it at the same time that Biden is trying to get his cabinet confirmed.

(And of course, House republicans are claiming that impeachment will "Divide the country", as if having Stubby McBonespurs trying to overturn the election isn't already doing that.

Conformation hearings won't happen until after the 20th. Impeach the prick on the last day so Pence won't be able to pardon him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 08, 2021, 05:50:56 pm
Donald Trump permanently banned from Twitter...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 08, 2021, 05:51:26 pm
Donald Trump permanently banned from Twitter...

That's going to upset him more than losing the election.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 08, 2021, 06:09:07 pm
Donald Trump permanently banned from Twitter...
There are still the official white house and presidential twitter feeds. I wonder what type of safeguards they have to prevent Trump from hijacking them and turning them into his own personal soapbox.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2021, 06:10:43 pm
There are still the official white house and presidential twitter feeds. I wonder what type of safeguards they have to prevent Trump from hijacking them and turning them into his own personal soapbox.

None, other than banning those when he is using them for the same ****.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 08, 2021, 06:13:24 pm
Parler is apparently down now too.

Glorious.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 08, 2021, 08:43:22 pm
Donald Trump permanently banned from Twitter...
Meanwhile, John Barron is posting quite regularly...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2021, 08:46:01 pm
Meanwhile, John Barron is posting quite regularly...

Who?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 08, 2021, 08:47:58 pm
Parler is apparently down now too.

Glorious.

Maybe all the right will swing to parler and the left will stay at twitter and so we'll create even more bubbles that divide people.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 08, 2021, 08:49:42 pm
Parler is apparently down now too.

Glorious.
Not sure if it is still down...

But, apparently, Google has pulled Parler from its google play store, and Apple is threatening to drop it as well, unless it improves its moderation policies.

From: https://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-threatens-to-ban-parler-from-app-store-11610148297
Alphabet Inc.’s Google late Friday suspended Parler, a free-speech focused social-media network favored by conservatives, from its app store, and Apple Inc. threatened to do the same.... Google said it acted because of “continued posting in the Parler app that seeks to incite ongoing violence in the U.S.”... Apple told Parler it received complaints regarding objectionable content on the service and accusations the app was used to plan, coordinate and facilitate illegal activities...The tech giant said in order for Parler to remain available in the App Store, it had to provide detailed information about its content-moderation plans...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 08, 2021, 08:55:46 pm
Trump has been been permanently banned from twitter.  I agree with the sentiment (though i hope it doesn't just create a rightwing social media platform that causes yet more echo chambers).  This begs the question though...why are other really bad leaders around the world that spread dangerous BS too not also permanently suspended from twitter?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 08, 2021, 08:55:59 pm
Re: Trump's Twitter ban...
Quote
Meanwhile, John Barron is posting quite regularly...
Who?
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudonyms_of_Donald_Trump#%22John_Barron%22_(1980s)
Trump used the pseudonym "John Barron" (sometimes "John Baron") throughout the 1980s...the name was a "go-to alias when [Trump] was under scrutiny, in need of a tough front man or otherwise wanting to convey a message without attaching his own name to it." Barron would be introduced as a spokesperson for Trump.
...
In May 1984, "Barron" lied to then-Forbes reporter Jonathan Greenberg about Trump's wealth and assets to get Trump on the Forbes 400 list.
...
In 1985, "Barron" urged fellow United States Football League team owners to partially reimburse Trump for a high-priced player.
...
Trump stopped using the pseudonym after he was compelled to testify in court proceedings that “John Barron” was one of his pseudonyms.


Trump has also used the alias John Miller, Carolin Gallego, and David Dennison.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 08, 2021, 09:02:36 pm
Trump has been been permanently banned from twitter.  I agree with the sentiment (though i hope it doesn't just create a rightwing social media platform that causes yet more echo chambers).  This begs the question though...why are other really bad leaders around the world that spread dangerous BS too not also permanently suspended from twitter?

Isn't that what Parler is already?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 08, 2021, 09:11:49 pm
Trump, the **** loser, has already had several tweets pulled from the POTUS account, and has tried to tweet from other accounts, resulting in permanent suspensions of said accounts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 08, 2021, 09:16:05 pm
The count of his attempts is now up to 5:

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2021, 09:58:26 pm
Quote
The American Psychoanalytic Association, a leading mental health organization, is calling for the immediate removal of President Donald Trump from office, either by resignation, impeachment or invoking the 25th Amendment to the Constitution.

In a letter to its 3,000 members, APsaA president William Glover, Ph.D. and president-elect Kerry Sulkowicz, M.D, stated:

“The past few days in Washington have been among the most disturbing in our lifetimes, and arguably in American political history. What we witnessed on January 6th – with horror and sadness – was an attack on the most precious institutions that symbolize our form of government and constituted an assault on democracy itself.

This is beyond politics. After refusing to concede that he had lost the election, President Trump sparked an insurrection, inciting a mob to storm the US Capitol. We have long believed that Trump is a dangerous leader, as evidenced by his encouraging right-wing extremists in Charlottesville, Portland, and Kenosha, and his behavior this week makes this apparent to all. The combination of his publicly evident psychopathology and the power of the office he holds constitutes a clear and present danger to the health and well-being of the nation and its people. We support his immediate removal from office, by resignation, impeachment or invoking the 25th Amendment to the Constitution.”

https://apsa.org/content/trump-dangerous-leader-apsaa-calls-removal
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 08, 2021, 10:03:08 pm
Re: Trump posting with other Twitter accounts...
The count of his attempts is now up to 5:
Jez, we're approaching Dave Mabus/Denis Markuze territory here...

(For anyone unfamiliary, Dave Mabus was a rather famous internet troll (possibly manic depressive) who had a habit of posting rather repetitive messages about how Depeche Mode's video on the world trade center proved atheists were going to hell. His messages were just that incoherent. He would join forums like this, post his nonsense, get banned, then sign up under a different name. He also pulled the same stunt on email and twitter, until the cops arrested him.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 08, 2021, 10:07:36 pm
Re: Trump posting with other Twitter accounts...Jez, we're approaching Dave Mabus/Denis Markuze territory here...

(For anyone unfamiliary, Dave Mabus was a rather famous internet troll (possibly manic depressive) who had a habit of posting rather repetitive messages about how Depeche Mode's video on the world trade center proved atheists were going to hell. His messages were just that incoherent. He would join forums like this, post his nonsense, get banned, then sign up under a different name. He also pulled the same stunt on email and twitter, until the cops arrested him.)

I forgot about that guy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2021, 10:16:32 pm
I forgot about that guy.


https://www.macleans.ca/society/technology/the-rcmp-and-montreal-police-ignored-cyber-criminal-while-demanding-new-powers-to-fight-cyber-crime/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 08, 2021, 10:41:47 pm

https://www.macleans.ca/society/technology/the-rcmp-and-montreal-police-ignored-cyber-criminal-while-demanding-new-powers-to-fight-cyber-crime/
There is a rather interesting (if not long) write-up on how they actually managed to track down Mabus/Markuze, and finally get the police to act.

https://skeptools.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/case-study-notorious-spammer-brought-down-twitter-tumblr-social-media-mabus/

To tie this back to Trump...

The Trump case reminds me of Mabus...
- The obsessive use of Twitter, jumping from account to account when necessary
- The inability to follow any of society's norms
- The unwillingness for authorities to hold him to account (the police in the case of Mabus, the Republicans in the case of Trump)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 09, 2021, 06:39:09 am
Maybe all the right will swing to parler and the left will stay at twitter and so we'll create even more bubbles that divide people.

Maaaaaybe...

But there are forces that move the media landscape towards bubbles and forces towards common spaces.  Both are needed and twitter is more of a common space, just due to numbers. 

If Parler wants to be a free-speech, two-minutes' hate, anger & screaming zone then there will definitely be a huge market for that.  However, it will be smaller than the market for "I want to talk about everybody and I promise not to be a racist f*** or call my 89 million followers to overthrow the goverment" zone.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 09, 2021, 02:31:38 pm
Who?

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudonyms_of_Donald_Trump#%22John_Barron%22_(1980s)
Trump used the pseudonym "John Barron" (sometimes "John Baron") throughout the 1980s...the name was a "go-to alias when [Trump] was under scrutiny, in need of a tough front man or otherwise wanting to convey a message without attaching his own name to it." Barron would be introduced as a spokesperson for Trump.
...
In May 1984, "Barron" lied to then-Forbes reporter Jonathan Greenberg about Trump's wealth and assets to get Trump on the Forbes 400 list.
...
In 1985, "Barron" urged fellow United States Football League team owners to partially reimburse Trump for a high-priced player.
...
Trump stopped using the pseudonym after he was compelled to testify in court proceedings that “John Barron” was one of his pseudonyms.


Trump has also used the alias John Miller, Carolin Gallego, and David Dennison.

(https://i.imgur.com/4XrmYsl.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 09, 2021, 04:31:23 pm
Well let's see, donny is the first president to be kicked off twitter, the first president to be on his way to be impeached twice, and then of course after stating he wouldn't have time to play golf such as his predecessor Obama did as he would be too busy, he has managed to play 308 rounds during one term while vs 333 rounds in two terms by Obama. Then there's the criminal charges. B' bye donny.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 09, 2021, 05:53:25 pm
Trump has been been permanently banned from twitter.  I agree with the sentiment (though i hope it doesn't just create a rightwing social media platform that causes yet more echo chambers).  This begs the question though...why are other really bad leaders around the world that spread dangerous BS too not also permanently suspended from twitter?
Because it's all brand new ground that no one has had to explore yet.  No one even knows how to begin doing so, except for the usual suspects who know that all paths that branch off from theirs leads straight to communism. It's such an ingrained primal fear it's a wonder it never found expression in the bible.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 09, 2021, 06:35:02 pm
There is a rather interesting (if not long) write-up on how they actually managed to track down Mabus/Markuze, and finally get the police to act.

https://skeptools.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/case-study-notorious-spammer-brought-down-twitter-tumblr-social-media-mabus/

To tie this back to Trump...

The Trump case reminds me of Mabus...
- The obsessive use of Twitter, jumping from account to account when necessary
- The inability to follow any of society's norms
- The unwillingness for authorities to hold him to account (the police in the case of Mabus, the Republicans in the case of Trump)

He actually replied to me once on either MLW or Blue Oval Forum. I feel special now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 09, 2021, 06:55:32 pm
So, impeachment on the grounds Trump instigated insurrection apparently won't fly in court once the words are legally parsed and examined for incontrovertible evidence of intent however clear his actions are evidence enough to know what happened.

That said, Trump would have to invoke a precedent in his defence that was set when a Ku Klux Klansman charged with inciting violence against some state legislature in the 90's was found not guilty. In addition to that Trump's Republican victims of the attempted insurrection in Congress would be forced to use this defence in his name.

The potential to do damage to Republicans by forcing this issue makes the effort well worth it.  **** every last one of them and the horses they rode in on too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 09, 2021, 08:39:37 pm
Impeachment happens in Congress and Congress isn't a court.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 09, 2021, 09:27:33 pm
Trump has been been permanently banned from twitter.  I agree with the sentiment (though i hope it doesn't just create a rightwing social media platform that causes yet more echo chambers).  This begs the question though...why are other really bad leaders around the world that spread dangerous BS too not also permanently suspended from twitter?

He's been banned now from all the major platforms, including Tik Tok and Pinterest.   :D

I'm trying hard here but I can't think of any other world leaders that tried to cling to power by inciting a violent insurrection against a democratically elected government. 

Names?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 09, 2021, 09:59:03 pm
Impeachment happens in Congress and Congress isn't a court.
Then why does Trump need lawyers to represent him in Congress?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 09, 2021, 10:09:19 pm
Then why does Trump need lawyers to represent him in Congress?

He may have lawyers but Congress is the jury.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 09, 2021, 10:59:25 pm
He may have lawyers but Congress is the jury.

Yep, Giuliani and Dershowitz. I wonder if that crew can keep him out of jail.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 09, 2021, 11:54:21 pm
He's been banned now from all the major platforms, including Tik Tok and Pinterest.   :D

I'm trying hard here but I can't think of any other world leaders that tried to cling to power by inciting a violent insurrection against a democratically elected government. 

The Chinese government has been accused of murdering prisoners from minority groups to harvest their organs for profit, and forcibly sterilizing Muslim minorities, and then gov officials go on twitter and lie about it to cover it up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 10, 2021, 12:39:41 am
He may have lawyers but Congress is the jury.
Now you're getting it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 10, 2021, 12:42:46 am
Yep, Giuliani and Dershowitz. I wonder if that crew can keep him out of jail.
The better question is will they dim the spotlight shining on the spectacle or brighten it. The answer is obvious.

To bad he couldn't get Sidney Powell as well.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 10, 2021, 10:21:56 am
The Chinese government has been accused of murdering prisoners from minority groups to harvest their organs for profit, and forcibly sterilizing Muslim minorities, and then gov officials go on twitter and lie about it to cover it up.
We wheel and deal with China's government for profit, so what's your point?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 10, 2021, 01:03:42 pm
The Chinese government has been accused of murdering prisoners from minority groups to harvest their organs for profit, and forcibly sterilizing Muslim minorities, and then gov officials go on twitter and lie about it to cover it up.

Trump was allowed to gaslight for four years as well, about COVID, about his achievements, his staff.  Nothing happened to his account.

His election fraud tweets started getting a disclaimer, as did the tweets of other people, including people who called it too early for Ossoff and Warnock (IOW just standard procedure and not biased).

He only lost his account when he *incited an insurgency*. 

There is absolutely no other precedent of this sort of behaviour within a democratic society in the social-media age so the argument that others do it is way off-base.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 10, 2021, 01:36:40 pm
The right is really going all in on this sOcIal MeDIa cenSorsHiP thing in hopes people forget the president incited a mob to attack the capitol to try and overthrow an election and murder lawmakers, huh? like they can't even bring themselves to muster a half hearted "thoughts and prayers" for the cop that got beaten to death when you know they'd be putting his name and picture up everywhere if he died during a BLM protest. Just the vilest scum, but I'm told there are many fine people on that side.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 10, 2021, 02:31:44 pm
The right is really going all in on this sOcIal MeDIa cenSorsHiP thing in hopes people forget the president incited a mob to attack the capitol to try and overthrow an election and murder lawmakers, huh? like they can't even bring themselves to muster a half hearted "thoughts and prayers" for the cop that got beaten to death when you know they'd be putting his name and picture up everywhere if he died during a BLM protest. Just the vilest scum, but I'm told there are many fine people on that side.

Distract

Distract

Distract
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: JMT on January 12, 2021, 04:46:34 pm
Several House Republicans have come out for impeachment, including Liz Cheney.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 12, 2021, 06:24:42 pm
Now is the time
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 12, 2021, 08:30:05 pm
Odds on Trump resigning a couple of days before his time's up and Pence pardoning him?

A timeless battle between Trump's ego and his not wanting to go to prison lol.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 12, 2021, 08:55:51 pm
Quote
Trump Is Blowing Apart the G.O.P. God Bless Him.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/opinion/republicans-trump.html

As always all I can say is...Go Trump Go!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 12, 2021, 09:39:42 pm
Pompeo cancels Europe trip after EU foreign minister calls Trump a "political pyromaniac who must be brought before a court".

He might as well quit too, no country wants him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 12, 2021, 11:05:01 pm
Pompeo cancels Europe trip after EU foreign minister calls Trump a "political pyromaniac who must be brought before a court".

He might as well quit too, no country wants him.

If Trump wants to flee the country he better use his time left to make some phone calls lol.

I'll bet he's buzzes off to Russia or Ukraine or some other former USSR country.

I always thought Dubya was a worse POTUS than Trump but i think Trump just passed Dubya on the list.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 12, 2021, 11:24:44 pm
If Trump wants to flee the country he better use his time left to make some phone calls lol.

I'll bet he's buzzes off to Russia or Ukraine or some other former USSR country.

I always thought Dubya was a worse POTUS than Trump but i think Trump just passed Dubya on the list.

oh brother, in my book trump passed way beyond worse than dubya before he was even elected. The interview when he bragged about being able to "grab women by the **** because they think you are a star" did it for me. And his time in office has been equally as incorrigible. I wasn't a big fan of dubya but I bet a majority of sensible Americans would be glad to welcome him back, anything to get rid of trump!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 12, 2021, 11:28:42 pm
Dubya wasn't the sharpest pencil in the drawer and made some really dumb decisions but at least he is a reasonably decent human being. Trump has no redeeming qualities at all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 12, 2021, 11:29:50 pm
Dubya wasn't the sharpest pencil in the drawer and made some really dumb decisions but at least he is a reasonably decent human being. Trump has no redeeming qualities at all.

one is a war criminal, the other led a sedition on his own country....  I suppose at least war crimes aren't against your own people....  if you think that counts for something.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 12, 2021, 11:38:45 pm
I always thought Dubya was a worse POTUS than Trump but i think Trump just passed Dubya on the list.
I think Stubby McBonespurs passed the Shrub a long, long time ago in the scale of how horrible they were as president..

I am not saying Bush was a good president. (His handling of Iraq was... not good to say the least. And he was the one in charge when the economy started to collapse.) But, despite all that, he didn't suck at everything... His response to 9/11 was   perfectly acceptable (in my opinion anyways... proper military response, but also made sure not to turn it into an anti-islam thing), and he recognized the dangers inherent in potential pandemics. (In fact, U.S. support of disease prevention in places like Africa may have actually saved more lives than were lost in Iraq.)

On the other hand, Trump has no such bright spots. I can't point out anything Trump has done right. His handling of the economy is just as bad as Bush's (although he bragged about things like low unemployment/increases in stock market, much of that was a combination of deficit spending and momentum from Obama's tenure), his handling of the environment is somehow even worse, and although Bush didn't really improve health care, he didn't actively try to make it worse either. And while Trump may not have started any wars (although not for lack of trying), I think his handling of immigration and race relations more than makes up for it.

And all that doesn't even include Trump's mishandling of Covid or his recent support of domestic terrorism.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 13, 2021, 12:25:53 am
oh brother, in my book trump passed way beyond worse than dubya before he was even elected. The interview when he bragged about being able to "grab women by the **** because they think you are a star" did it for me. And his time in office has been equally as incorrigible. I wasn't a big fan of dubya but I bet a majority of sensible Americans would be glad to welcome him back, anything to get rid of trump!

Well talking about grabbing women by the ying-yangs is low, but a POTUS sets a pretty low bar when they lie to the US public, the UN, and allies to start a needless war that kills hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and thousands of US soldiers while creating the power vacuum that allowed ISIS to form.  Oh and tortured prisoners.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 13, 2021, 12:32:47 am
Dubya wasn't the sharpest pencil in the drawer and made some really dumb decisions but at least he is a reasonably decent human being. Trump has no redeeming qualities at all.

When you bomb people needlessly and then torture the prisoners you capture you're not a decent human being, you're a monster.  He was a polite and friendly monster though...just don't get on his bad side.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 13, 2021, 01:04:16 am
Well talking about grabbing women by the ying-yangs is low, but a POTUS sets a pretty low bar when they lie to the US public
Trump has lied to the public more than Bush ever did.  Not saying the Bush admin was honest, just that the Trump administration is just so... much... worse.
Quote
the UN,  and allies
While Bush didn't get U.N. backing for Iraq, he probably didn't do as much damage to international relationships overall as Trump has.

Bush gave countries the feeling that "I don't like what America is doing but we can eventually get back to normal". Trump gave countries the feeling that "We can never trust America again".

Quote
to start a needless war that kills hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and thousands of US soldiers while creating the power vacuum that allowed ISIS to form.
Yup, its a given... Bush shouldn't have gone into Iraq. But whatever the death toll was, it will probably be exceeded by the number of deaths Trump could have prevented had he handled covid better.

Oh, and as I pointed out... if your only concern is body count... Bush actually ended up saving lives by supporting programs that involved disease prevention in the developing world.
Quote
Oh and tortured prisoners.
Torture? You mean the thing that Trump said works, and that he was planning on bringing back? (I don't know if he ever followed through, he had no problem employing advisers who were involved with torture in the past.)

Yes, the use of torture was another dark mark on the Bush record. But then, Bush never locked hundreds of children in cages after separating them from their families. Oh, and Trump has had more than 3 times the number of federal inmates executed than Bush did.

Now, which is a bigger transgression... torture of inmates or family separations/jailing of children? Might be a value judgement, but since more children were impacted by Trump's policies than prisoners were affected by Bush's, I'd have to say Trump comes out looking worse here.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 13, 2021, 01:49:31 am
Well talking about grabbing women by the ying-yangs is low, but a POTUS sets a pretty low bar when they lie to the US public, the UN, and allies to start a needless war that kills hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and thousands of US soldiers while creating the power vacuum that allowed ISIS to form.  Oh and tortured prisoners.
Bush had a point I suppose when he said of Trump "Sorta makes me look pretty good, doesn’t it?" but he and his administration certainly had a hand in seeding various conditions for the rise of Trump and fall of the Republicans. Besides lowering America's stature on the global stage while helping uplift that of various dictators and warlords don't forget who it was that gazed deep into Putin's eye's and saw a man America could trust.

Putin probably realized right then that America would be a pushover for gaslighting and like it's resistance to COVID it essentially never had a chance.   

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 13, 2021, 09:07:03 am
Just listening in a little to the impeachment debate in the House and even the republicans aren't saying much good about Donny. It seems the biggest argument against voting to impeach is because it could incite another round of violence from trump supporters. America really does seem to have gone down hill, especially during the last 4 years. The best outcome I see from all this is that they disallow trump from ever running again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 13, 2021, 10:02:12 am
Just listening in a little to the impeachment debate in the House and even the republicans aren't saying much good about Donny. It seems the biggest argument against voting to impeach is because it could incite another round of violence from trump supporters. America really does seem to have gone down hill, especially during the last 4 years. The best outcome I see from all this is that they disallow trump from ever running again.

Exactly right.  "We can't have law and order, people, as the populace is too unstable to punish a popular rebel leader"

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 13, 2021, 10:10:53 am
Just listening in a little to the impeachment debate in the House and even the republicans aren't saying much good about Donny. It seems the biggest argument against voting to impeach is because it could incite another round of violence from trump supporters.
Republicans: "We don't negotiate with terrorists... we give in to them"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 13, 2021, 10:17:39 am
After granting pardons to such fine upstanding citizens like Flynn (who plead guilty) and Manafort (who was a convicted tax cheat), it looks like Pardon-Palooza might finally be over....

From: https://news.yahoo.com/trump-reportedly-angry-aides-warning-070935116.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJUiEtMYVF5pJSk7e7DTRHA7wDnY8dZ8AJbgOrsqWxJFawlbnN7Eag0w-pkXRHrXYDUTS9bF9ysX-LvXc-O20fwzDA2OzprrBun5IshKTbisJ2KXKKIx7KiV8w0kmyhwPBHdN9Vo3hJL2EUFhhkqpc5K-Hi_RTLUsDK8kmM3Wpy9
If you were hoping for a last-minute pardon from President Trump, ABC News' Jonathan Karl has some bad news for you. After last week's assault on the U.S. Capitol by Trump supporters...Trump is not in the pardoning mood, Karl told anchor David Muir... "The president has been warned, David, by some of his lawyers that if he goes ahead and pardons himself, he could be more vulnerable to civil lawsuits, including from some of those injured in the Capitol riot, because a self-pardon would be seen as an admission that he did something wrong..." Karl said. "The president is angry...So the attitude seems to be: 'If I can't get a pardon, then nobody else should get one, either.'"

So this is one of the times when Trump's little pouty temper tantrums has actually worked FOR the cause of justice.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 13, 2021, 10:47:00 am
Just listening in a little to the impeachment debate in the House and even the republicans aren't saying much good about Donny. It seems the biggest argument against voting to impeach is because it could incite another round of violence from trump supporters. America really does seem to have gone down hill, especially during the last 4 years. The best outcome I see from all this is that they disallow trump from ever running again.
Another argument amongst Democrats against impeachment is that the spotlight will follow Trump just as Biden is entering stage right.  I get it but...I always imagined the GOP old guard would have had Trump assassinated long since by now.  It's much better that it's working out the other way though.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 13, 2021, 05:37:43 pm
Too bad COVID didn't kill him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 13, 2021, 05:42:17 pm
Too bad COVID didn't kill him.

Now having the dubious distinction of being the only POTUS in history to be impeached may just succeed were Covid failed. I bet his BP is through the roof today.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 13, 2021, 07:16:09 pm
Bush gave countries the feeling that "I don't like what America is doing but we can eventually get back to normal". Trump gave countries the feeling that "We can never trust America again".

I think it's the opposite.  Bush admin were establishment Republicans that spilled over from Bush Sr/Reagan/Ford-Nixon years  Trump wasn't a party guy so may be seen as more of an aberration.

Quote
Yup, its a given... Bush shouldn't have gone into Iraq. But whatever the death toll was, it will probably be exceeded by the number of deaths Trump could have prevented had he handled covid better.
Iraq War led to 500k+ deaths. Trump is responsible for some of US's covid deaths but not all or even most.

Quote
But then, Bush never locked hundreds of children in cages after separating them from their families.
I'm sure he did it with Muslims.

But anyways, i've already argued Trump is a worse POTUS than Dubya.  Both are moron a-holes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 13, 2021, 07:35:30 pm
Anyone who thinks the Republican Party is turning on Trump isn’t paying attention....    Only 10/207 Republicans voted to impeach.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 13, 2021, 08:23:36 pm
Anyone who thinks the Republican Party is turning on Trump isn’t paying attention....    Only 10/207 Republicans voted to impeach.

The big money Republicans work differently.  They get national donations... big contractors... local isn't as important.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 13, 2021, 09:17:29 pm
Anyone who thinks the Republican Party is turning on Trump isn’t paying attention....    Only 10/207 Republicans voted to impeach.
They must feel they're representing their constituents.  Maybe a commensurate number of Americans are simply a bunch of worthless **** and its all the Republicans really have to work with.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 13, 2021, 11:28:44 pm
They must feel they're representing their constituents.  Maybe a commensurate number of Americans are simply a bunch of worthless **** and its all the Republicans really have to work with.

Maybe.  All the GOP reps who wanted an impeachment could have just made sure there were enough votes for it then voted "no" to save face with their constituents or whoever they're trying to impress.  Or maybe they don't want to get Trump PO'd in case the impeachment fails, which it could, and then they're in his dog house if Trump runs in 2024 and by some miracle wins.

I actually think there will be problems proving he incited violence, because he didn't directly call for violence.  Giuliani did though.  But for Trump they could try to prove "aiding or providing comfort to" insurrectionists.  I think the most egregious thing Trump did was pressure Pence to sabotage the vote confirmation, so maybe they could accuse him of failing to uphold his oath to defend the constitution.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 14, 2021, 10:04:06 am
Maybe.  All the GOP reps who wanted an impeachment could have just made sure there were enough votes for it
This was the house impeachment vote. There only needed to be a simple majority, which would have been carried with just Democrats.

Quote
then voted "no" to save face with their constituents or whoever they're trying to impress.
If you are a republican trying to impress a group of MAGAchuds who are trying to violently overthrow an election, then maybe they should re-think their life choices.

Yes, a politician should represent the views of his constituents. But not every voter in their district would have supported terrorist activity. And a politician should not govern only by opinion polls (otherwise why have representatives? just use opinion polls) but instead should be willing to take actions that benefit their constituents, even those actions are not popular immediately.
Quote
Or maybe they don't want to get Trump PO'd in case the impeachment fails, which it could, and then they're in his dog house if Trump runs in 2024 and by some miracle wins.
If that was why republican voted against Trump's impeachment, then their vote was based only on greed and self-service.
Quote
I actually think there will be problems proving he incited violence, because he didn't directly call for violence.  Giuliani did though.  But for Trump they could try to prove "aiding or providing comfort to" insurrectionists.  I think the most egregious thing Trump did was pressure Pence to sabotage the vote confirmation, so maybe they could accuse him of failing to uphold his oath to defend the constitution.
There was an episode of the youtube channel LegalEagle that talked about that issue. (The host of the channel is a practicing lawyer who talks about various current events, historical legal cases, or the accuracy of courtroom scenes in TV.)

His analysis: In a legal sense, Trump would probably not be found guilty for inciting a riot. (Courts generally err on the side of caution when dealing with free speech issues, and Trump's statements were vague enough.)

See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwqAInN9HWI&t=4s

However, Impeachment is a political process, not a criminal one, and something can be considered impeachable even if it is not a violation of the law. After all, political leaders do need to be held to a different standard than average citizens.

For the past 2 months Trump repeated falsehoods about a 'stolen election'. He spoke at a rally in which there was the possibility of violence (there were arrests BEFORE the rally of people with illegal weapons, yet Trump persisted). Trump may have used the word 'peaceful' during the rally, but he also used the word 'fight' multiple times. (Although 'fight' could be taken metaphorically, its still a rather loaded word.) And during and immediately after the riot, Trump was slow to act, and his first response was to express 'love' for the terrorists.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 14, 2021, 10:22:07 am
All I can say is "Ha Ha!"

From: https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/america-votes/trump-has-told-staff-not-to-pay-rudy-giuliani-over-irritation-at-being-impeached-again-report-1.5266432
U.S. President Donald Trump, irritated at being impeached for a second time, has told people to stop paying Rudy Giuliani's legal fees,

Oh no! How is Giulliani going to afford his high quality hair dye?

And double HA HA!

From: https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/07/trump-staffers-next-job-456315
Trump administration officials watched in horror, fearful not only of the rioting their boss had inspired but of the residual damage that would fall on their careers....And what future employment opportunities would there even be, others wondered. “This,” one administration official said of Wednesday’s events, “will hurt us in trying to get jobs.”

From: https://news.yahoo.com/forbes-editor-warns-against-hiring-002211599.html
Forbes' editor issued a warning to any companies thinking about hiring former communications officials from President Donald Trump's administration...."Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie"

Ah, I love the smell of schadenfreude in the morning.

Seriously... it was obvious that Trump was a con artist long before he was elected president. It was also obvious that he was a bigot, and totally unsuited to the job. That things are ending as badly as they are should have been expected. But still, these staffers still decided to work for him, and to continue working for him, for years, enabling his worst excesses. I have no sympathy for them if people look at their employment record, see "Trump staffer", and decide not to hire them.


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on January 14, 2021, 11:04:50 am
All I can say is "Ha Ha!"

From: https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/america-votes/trump-has-told-staff-not-to-pay-rudy-giuliani-over-irritation-at-being-impeached-again-report-1.5266432
U.S. President Donald Trump, irritated at being impeached for a second time, has told people to stop paying Rudy Giuliani's legal fees,

Oh no! How is Giulliani going to afford his high quality hair dye?

And double HA HA!

From: https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/07/trump-staffers-next-job-456315
Trump administration officials watched in horror, fearful not only of the rioting their boss had inspired but of the residual damage that would fall on their careers....And what future employment opportunities would there even be, others wondered. “This,” one administration official said of Wednesday’s events, “will hurt us in trying to get jobs.”

From: https://news.yahoo.com/forbes-editor-warns-against-hiring-002211599.html
Forbes' editor issued a warning to any companies thinking about hiring former communications officials from President Donald Trump's administration...."Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie"

Ah, I love the smell of schadenfreude in the morning.

Seriously... it was obvious that Trump was a con artist long before he was elected president. It was also obvious that he was a bigot, and totally unsuited to the job. That things are ending as badly as they are should have been expected. But still, these staffers still decided to work for him, and to continue working for him, for years, enabling his worst excesses. I have no sympathy for them if people look at their employment record, see "Trump staffer", and decide not to hire them.

Rudy's not getting a Pardon either, I reckon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 14, 2021, 12:47:54 pm
Can't get enough of seeing the people who've spent the last four years saying "f*ck your feelings you soy snowflake!" pivot to "hey guys c'mon can we dial back the rhetoric a little bit please?" when they're actually being called to account for their support of Trumpism. Like this (https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/2021/01/14/cawthorn-trump-played-role-capitol-riot-votes-no-impeachment/4157716001/) smarmy little prick.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 14, 2021, 01:02:05 pm
I just heard that the moving trucks are in position at the WH. I wonder where exactly they will move trumps stuff too. Mara Lago? I bet Mr. Impeachment times two is a little moody today, especially not having a twitter account to rant and rave on. And it looks like an additional lawsuit will be forthcoming from Rudy since donny is pissed at him and refusing to pay the legal bills. Well at least they now have 20,000 Natianal Guard members in place in case donny tries to incite another riot in his remaining days. Quite the legacy donny!!!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 15, 2021, 01:15:53 am
Anyone who thinks the Republican Party is turning on Trump isn’t paying attention....    Only 10/207 Republicans voted to impeach.

I know it's still a long-shot, but a few considerations:

1) The house also had 121 members who were against certifying the results (more than 50%).  Only 6 senators did, showing less hyper-partisanship.
2)  House candidates don't rely as much as big donors as senators do and with corporate donations are stifled, more senators are willing to follow the money.
3)  They won't even begin the trial until the 19th and even then it'll be a busy week with all the cabinet confirmations.  Developments in the investigation of January 6th could take place, making it harder to stand by Trump.

Overall, it'll be hard to get 17 senators to vote against Trump (or stay home, bringing the total # votes needed down), but it's definitely a step up from impeachment 2019.  There's a sliver of chance vs. zero in 2019.

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 15, 2021, 01:27:56 am
I think it's the opposite.  Bush admin were establishment Republicans that spilled over from Bush Sr/Reagan/Ford-Nixon years  Trump wasn't a party guy so may be seen as more of an aberration.
Iraq War led to 500k+ deaths. Trump is responsible for some of US's covid deaths but not all or even most.
I'm sure he did it with Muslims.

But anyways, i've already argued Trump is a worse POTUS than Dubya.  Both are moron a-holes.

I hate the fact that Trump has normalized Bush because he doesn't deserve it.  He got so many people killed, it's unconscionable.

Trump's handling of COVID and starting an insurrection is just as sociopathic, even if the death count wasn't as high.  Maybe it was just his luck... or W's bad luck.

At the end of the day, I don't think Bush had any idea Iraq would become such a clusterf*ck and he feels a level of remorse... but I don't think Trump is capable of any level of empathy or self-introspection so as far as human beings go, yeah I agree Trump is worse.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 15, 2021, 01:32:15 am
At the end of the day, I don't think Bush had any idea Iraq would become such a clusterf*ck and he feels a level of remorse... but I don't think Trump is capable of any level of empathy or self-introspection so as far as human beings go, yeah I agree Trump is worse.

Never heard of Bush having an ounce of remorse for that. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 15, 2021, 01:55:26 am
Never heard of Bush having an ounce of remorse for that.

He actually did, he said it was the one regret of his presidency... though he blamed the intelligence and said he still thinks it was the right decision.

But words aside, I think the fact that he has laid low since his presidency show his self-reflection and the fact that he knows he failed.   

I could be wrong and I can't believe for the life in me I'm defending GW Bush, but I do think he grossly misjudged the aftermath and body count, he was more of an agent than the decision-maker and that even though he won't openly incriminate himself as a war-criminal by admitting guilt, he has shown a level of remorse.

The whole Bush family is more decent than the Trumps. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 15, 2021, 09:58:07 am
I just heard that the moving trucks are in position at the WH. I wonder where exactly they will move trumps stuff too. Mara Lago?
I think the more interesting question is... just how much stuff will Trump and his cronies steal when they leave the white house.

From: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/trump-white-house-begins-packing-up-211724935.html
One day after President Trump was impeached for the second time and with less than a week to go before President-elect Joe Biden’s inauguration, the Trump White House began cleaning out its desks on Thursday....White House staffers were spotted removing a bust of President Abraham Lincoln from the West Wing.

It is possible that items being removed are personal effects. Still, they may have to do so me careful counting when Biden takes over.
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And it looks like an additional lawsuit will be forthcoming from Rudy since donny is pissed at him and refusing to pay the legal bills.
Oh no! Now how is Guiliani going to afford to pay for high quality hair dye?

Of course if it does go to court and Guilliani represents himself, Trump might actually win the case (given how poor of a lawyer Rudy seems to be these days).

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 15, 2021, 11:04:31 am
Re: Damage to international relations...
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Bush gave countries the feeling that "I don't like what America is doing but we can eventually get back to normal". Trump gave countries the feeling that "We can never trust America again".
I think it's the opposite.  Bush admin were establishment Republicans that spilled over from Bush Sr/Reagan/Ford-Nixon years  Trump wasn't a party guy so may be seen as more of an aberration.
Lets take a look at some facts, shall we?

While some may claim that Trump was an 'Aberration', he still had ~40% support nationally, and ~80-90% support within the republican party up until the last election. And republican congress-critters continued to support him (remember, only 1 GOP senator voted to impeach Trump, after he tired to bribe/blackmail a foreign government into overturning the election). And this was after 3 years of Trump calling neo-nazis "fine people". Of Trump making literally thousands of false statements in public. Of Trump attacking foreign allies.

If I am a foreign leader, I'm not going to look at Trump as an 'aberration'... I am going to start thinking of him as the new norm for the Republicans.

Republicans went from Bush (a president who was wildly unpopular when he left office, but who didn't overturn trade deals, didn't berate NATO, etc.) to Trump, a man who was quite submissive to Russia, instituted protectionist measures, and regularly attacked allies.
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Yup, its a given... Bush shouldn't have gone into Iraq. But whatever the death toll was, it will probably be exceeded by the number of deaths Trump could have prevented had he handled covid better.
Iraq War led to 500k+ deaths. Trump is responsible for some of US's covid deaths but not all or even most.
First of all, the 500k deaths in Iraq is probably an over-estimation. The web site Iraq Body Count (hardly a pro-bush source) puts the number closer to 200,000. (Yes, that is still a substantial number, but nowhere near as high).

Secondly, while I agree that not ALL U.S. covid deaths can be attributed to Trump, I think the majority can.

The best comparison for the U.S. system is Canada... We share a geographic isolation from Eurasia, we both have 'westernized' health care systems (admittedly with different costs/delivery mechanisms, but the treatment options are similar), and we have similar population demographics. However, if you compare fatalities, the U.S. has ~1200 deaths per million. Canada's death rate is around ~470 per million. In other words, we only have 40% of the fatalities that the U.S. does. There are 386,000 Covid deaths in the U.S. If they handled, covid as well as we did, that number would be closer to 150-200,000. So, I would chalk up the number of Covid deaths attributed to trump to be ~200k. (And that's only the current deaths. You can add thousands to that total over the next few weeks, as people infected at the end of Trump's tenure start to fall ill, even if they don't actually die until after Biden becomes president.)

So, Trump's Covid death toll is roughly equivalent to Bush's Iraq toll, if not greater.

See: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

Lastly, and most importantly... EVEN if you think the Iraq war was completely unforgivable. Even if you have this image of Bush sitting in the oval office twirling a long handle-bar moustache like some 1800s villain with a plan to kill Iraqis for fun. As I pointed out before, at least Bush did some good stuff.

I have pointed that out multiple times before, but you seem to ignore it. Hmmm... I wonder why?

From: https://www.history.com/news/what-was-a-george-w-bushs-greatest-achievement
Much of the legacy of President George W. Bush is wrapped around the war on terror and military action in Iraq and Afghanistan, but what many consider his greatest achievement is a public health effort steeped in humanitarianism that won accolades across the political spectrum: Bush has probably done more than any other president to combat AIDS, particularly in Africa.... That initiative became known as the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, or PEPFAR....A Stanford University analysis of PEPFAR’s first three years calculated 1.1 million lives saved with a 28 percent reduction in HIV/AIDS.

So there you go... even if you think the Iraq war was completely and totally wrong, more people are alive today thanks to Bush's actions.. (And, it should be noted that Trump has acted to cut back on those medical programs. So... add more to Trump's death toll.)

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But then, Bush never locked hundreds of children in cages after separating them from their families.
I'm sure he did it with Muslims.
Really? Where?

Show me where Bush was systematically having Muslim children locked in cages.

Oh, and if you're counting those, can we also count Muslim deaths caused by Trump's increased use of Drone strikes in the middle east? Or his actions that caused dozens/hundreds of Kurds to be killed by mismanaging troops?
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But anyways, i've already argued Trump is a worse POTUS than Dubya.  Both are moron a-holes.
But your earlier statement was: I always thought Dubya was a worse POTUS than Trump but i think Trump just passed Dubya on the list.

The point that I was making was that Trump should have passed the Shrub on your list of bad presidents YEARS ago. Even without his attempts at overturning valid election results. Even without his support of terrorism.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 15, 2021, 12:36:04 pm
The point that I was making was that Trump should have passed the Shrub on your list of bad presidents YEARS ago. Even without his attempts at overturning valid election results. Even without his support of terrorism.
The reason why Trump is referred to as an effect as opposed to a cause remains and Bush's contribution is clear as day.  The real reason of course are Americans. America is a democracy and it's people are ultimately responsible for the leaders and governments they follow and support. Trump can thank Bush for convincing millions of Americans that using ginned-up fake news - like the cartoons they used in Iraq's case for example - is an acceptable way to garner support and incite your followers. Feeding candy to a baby is just as easy taking it away.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 15, 2021, 02:13:32 pm
The reason why Trump is referred to as an effect as opposed to a cause remains and Bush's contribution is clear as day.  The real reason of course are Americans. America is a democracy and it's people are ultimately responsible for the leaders and governments they follow and support. Trump can thank Bush for convincing millions of Americans that using ginned-up fake news - like the cartoons they used in Iraq's case for example - is an acceptable way to garner support and incite your followers. Feeding candy to a baby is just as easy taking it away.

My take on this is the Obama Presidency is the direct cause of Trump. First by leading the GOP to embrace insane conspiracy theories that have only gotten crazier, but also for Obama's own failure to hold anyone to account from the Bush admin and the financial collapse which sent a clear signal that anyone in powerful positions can get away with pretty much anything they want, which basically gave a green light for someone to come along and use the office to do crimes for personal enrichment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 15, 2021, 03:30:39 pm
So now Trump wants a military send-off the morning of Inauguration Day.

Hmmm, a bunch of troops celebrating Trump's governance of America in the same place as a bunch of troops protecting America from his governance. That'll probably keep a few of his fans on the edge of their seats in expectation but it'll probably be more like that scene in Braveheart where Irish and Scottish forces meet and greet each other on the battlefield.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 15, 2021, 03:37:07 pm
I'm thinking of the Anwar Sadat military parade.  Just can't figure out who Sadat is in this scenario.

Trump's approval rating is finally plummeting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 15, 2021, 03:38:19 pm

And - in case you need a reminder - do NOT engage with the Trump cult... They are liars and foreign plants.  Just tell them so, and move on.  I am saving so much free time I started a Covid victory garden !
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 15, 2021, 03:51:39 pm
Trump's approval rating is finally plummeting.
Yes, sort of...

According to the 538 polling website, his approval rating has dropped ~7% since the election. Which sounds good.

The bad part is, he is still at 38%. And that's not even the lowest point in his approval. (It was lower at the end of 2017.)
So after all that he has done... messing up the response to the covid pandemic, seeing a collapse in the economy, and supporting terrorism, 2 out of 5 voters are saying "I want that!"


https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 15, 2021, 04:17:55 pm
I'm thinking of the Anwar Sadat military parade.  Just can't figure out who Sadat is in this scenario.

Trump's approval rating is finally plummeting.

Open question if his support is dropping among Republicans because of the coup or because the coup was not successful.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 15, 2021, 06:09:08 pm
He actually did, he said it was the one regret of his presidency... though he blamed the intelligence and said he still thinks it was the right decision.

But words aside, I think the fact that he has laid low since his presidency show his self-reflection and the fact that he knows he failed.   

I could be wrong and I can't believe for the life in me I'm defending GW Bush, but I do think he grossly misjudged the aftermath and body count, he was more of an agent than the decision-maker and that even though he won't openly incriminate himself as a war-criminal by admitting guilt, he has shown a level of remorse.

The whole Bush family is more decent than the Trumps.

Well we're debating who is the bigger piece of crap among 2 giant pieces of crap.

He's the POTUS, the buck stops with him.  Cheney and Rumsfeld were monsters and he chose them and supported them.  He can regret all he wants, he still lied to Americans and the UN/international community numerous times about intelligence which was totally BS.  They lied to our government to try to get us to join the war.  He said Saddam had tried to acquire yellowcake from Africa to make nukes, that was BS.  Said Saddam had mobile chemical weapons labs, it was BS.  He's a liar.  He thought they were going to find WMD's even if they didn't have any solid evidence.  He bet big and lost, and now he "regrets it".

I don't know that much about his family but he's a piece of crap.  Trump is a huge liar obviously, lies far more often.  Thing is anyone with half a brain knows Trump is lying and don't trust him because all he does is lie and he doesn't even try to hide it.  You have to a MAGA moron to believe him.  IMO Bush's lies were more devious, almost everyone believed him, he showed intelligence charts and maps showing WMD sites, he used 9/11 simply as an excuse to push the neocon warmonger agenda.  Sociopathic stuff.

I think Bush is a sociopath and Trump is a psychopath.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 15, 2021, 11:23:24 pm
Trump is bitching as he seems to feel a lack of support of the usual send off of a POTUS. (airforce fly by, 21 gun salute etc.,etc) but he seems to fail to understand (ignore) the military is too busy standing on guard to quell riots he himself has provoked. (20,000 plus in Washington for example.) Perhaps a stray bullet from one of these trump supporter dickheads going through dickhead trump's head would be a fitting end for this. Apparently it's deemed to be safer in Kabul than in Washington. Good going donny!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 16, 2021, 02:45:45 pm
Well we're debating who is the bigger piece of crap among 2 giant pieces of crap.

He's the POTUS, the buck stops with him.  Cheney and Rumsfeld were monsters and he chose them and supported them.  He can regret all he wants, he still lied to Americans and the UN/international community numerous times about intelligence which was totally BS.  They lied to our government to try to get us to join the war.  He said Saddam had tried to acquire yellowcake from Africa to make nukes, that was BS.  Said Saddam had mobile chemical weapons labs, it was BS.  He's a liar.  He thought they were going to find WMD's even if they didn't have any solid evidence.  He bet big and lost, and now he "regrets it".

I don't know that much about his family but he's a piece of crap.  Trump is a huge liar obviously, lies far more often.  Thing is anyone with half a brain knows Trump is lying and don't trust him because all he does is lie and he doesn't even try to hide it.  You have to a MAGA moron to believe him.  IMO Bush's lies were more devious, almost everyone believed him, he showed intelligence charts and maps showing WMD sites, he used 9/11 simply as an excuse to push the neocon warmonger agenda.  Sociopathic stuff.

I think Bush is a sociopath and Trump is a psychopath.

I am not defending George Bush.  His presidency traumatized me much more than Trump's.  I loathe when people try to normalize him now just because Trump turned into such a nightmare.

I know it's like comparing (rotten) apples and oranges.  But for me, and I could be wrong, I see a smidge more humanity in Bush than I do in Trump.

However, the bar is set at zero when it comes to Trump so it speaks nothing of Bush to say he passes Trump ever so slightly.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 16, 2021, 03:08:52 pm
He actually replied to me once on either MLW or Blue Oval Forum. I feel special now.

Yeah, I remember him.  He once threatened me with death, but said that I could be spared if I became a Christian Communist.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 19, 2021, 01:43:07 pm
So, we're down to less than 24 hours left in donny's reign. I bet many Americans can't wait to see him gone. Various high ranking officials, including VP Pence, have declined invitations to attend the departure ceremony trump has cooked up. If I was the military commander in charge of the 21 gun salute he has ordered I would save shot 21 until Air Force One was airborne.  :) 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 20, 2021, 07:21:32 pm
Funny thread...

https://twitter.com/ItsTheBrandi/status/1351727498598383618
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 20, 2021, 07:53:04 pm
Also funny: Posts I have read from diehard Qanon people saying... "what... HAPPENED ?" :D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 20, 2021, 09:25:08 pm
(https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F&hash=4c182ae4f304f9c6a4d5ab9f816cc8285e24e1ac)
Also funny: Posts I have read from diehard Qanon people saying... "what... HAPPENED ?" :D

QAnon is one thing but there are real issues in the US that need to be addressed. 70 million didn't vote for Trump because of QAnon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_eeavqZ8V8&t=13s
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 20, 2021, 11:19:36 pm
I seem to have forgotten. Who is donald trump again?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 20, 2021, 11:30:42 pm
I seem to have forgotten. Who is donald trump again?

WTF are you going to post about now???
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 20, 2021, 11:38:53 pm
WTF are you going to post about now???

Well I was gonna query shady to see if he still supports his buddy trump. Onward from there I'm thinking about the positive feeling I have about the new POTUS with  a Black woman as second in command. I feel hopeful.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 21, 2021, 12:00:35 am
WTF are you going to post about now???

Donald Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 21, 2021, 12:58:18 am
Stockholm syndrome!

Quote from: U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham
This idea of moving forward without Donald Trump in the Republican Party is a disaster for the Republican Party.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 21, 2021, 01:13:17 am
(https://i.imgur.com/R3jhRsL.png)

yessir - an agreement named on behalf of the citizens of the city of Paris!  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 21, 2021, 01:18:09 am
same ole shyte!

Quote from: U.S. Republican Senator Rand Paul commenting on U.S. President Biden's inaugural speech
If you read his speech and listen to it carefully, much of it is thinly-veiled innuendo calling us White supremacists, calling us racists, calling us every name in the book, calling us people who don't tell the truth.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 21, 2021, 01:24:39 am
same ole shyte!


Hmmm...  I wonder why he picked those particular descriptors to read into Biden’s speech....   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 21, 2021, 02:29:21 am
(https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F&hash=4c182ae4f304f9c6a4d5ab9f816cc8285e24e1ac)
QAnon is one thing but there are real issues in the US that need to be addressed. 70 million didn't vote for Trump because of QAnon.

Well, if it was because they didn't know whether to **** or go blind I'd say...actually I don't have a clue what to say to that.

I think one of the stickier wickets America might have to face will be right-wing terrorism against other right-wingers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 09:22:21 am
Well, if it was because they didn't know whether to **** or go blind I'd say...actually I don't have a clue what to say to that.

I think one of the stickier wickets America might have to face will be right-wing terrorism against other right-wingers.

70 million voted for Trump because many of their complaints about the way Washington operates and how the establishment is leaving them behind are very real. Backing Trump was a big mistake but the issues are still real.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 21, 2021, 10:01:40 am
Backing Trump was a big mistake but the issues are still real.
But would such people even KNOW if things were improved ?

 Their frames of reference are distorted, and I am being generous.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 10:55:50 am
70 million voted for Trump because many of their complaints about the way Washington operates and how the establishment is leaving them behind are very real. Backing Trump was a big mistake but the issues are still real.

If those people thought Donald Trump was the solution, I don't trust their ability to evaluate the problems.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 11:29:46 am
If those people thought Donald Trump was the solution, I don't trust their ability to evaluate the problems.

Twice the population of Canada voted for Trump. Any election is just a tactical victory so you might want to find out why.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 21, 2021, 11:34:56 am
If those people thought Donald Trump was the solution, I don't trust their ability to evaluate the problems.

He's not the solution, he's not even the problem.

1) The complexity of government and the degree to which they're involved in ... life has increased to a large degree since 1776
2) There was no TikTok in 1776
3) People weren't lazy **** in 1776

Democracy needs an update that acknowledges that huge swaths of the population are, in fact, checked out.  Instead of bringing them in ... DRAGGING them in ... and dealing with their inability to cope with political reality let's give them a free pass and use people who are checked in (like people on here) to a greater degree.

There seems to be no shortage of conservative and liberal opinions out there who could help guide policy.   Imagine
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 21, 2021, 11:36:24 am
Twice the population of Canada voted for Trump. Any election is just a tactical victory so you might want to find out why.


Don't we know why ?  I mean Trump really didn't do anything so it was all identity... wasn't it ?  :-[
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 11:44:32 am

Don't we know why ?  I mean Trump really didn't do anything so it was all identity... wasn't it ?  :-[

You obviously don't know why. There are reasons someone like Trump could get elected and they don't have anything to do with Trump. Bill Maher is right.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 11:47:31 am
Twice the population of Canada voted for Trump. Any election is just a tactical victory so you might want to find out why.

You seem to think you have the answers so why don't you share?

The fact is there's no one answer to why 70M people voted for a carnival barker, but here are a couple:

1. He's a guy they know from TV
2. They always vote Republican no matter what
3. Same as #1, but he was also racist
4. They bought his 2016 pitch about "making America great again" and then got sucked into the cult aspect

Anything we're missing?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 11:49:04 am
You obviously don't know why. There are reasons someone like Trump could get elected and they don't have anything to do with Trump. Bill Maher is right.

There are also very Trump-specific factors driving Trump's popularity that a similar ghoul like Hawley or that giraffe guy cannot replicate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 12:09:50 pm
There are also very Trump-specific factors driving Trump's popularity that a similar ghoul like Hawley or that giraffe guy cannot replicate.

Sure there are but they aren't the reasons so many people voted for him. They don't see the present system is working in their interests and to a large degree they are right. The disparity in wealth just keeps getting larger regardless of which party is in power. Until that is addressed, things won't change much and there is a good chance of another Trump coming along.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 12:19:47 pm
Sure there are but they aren't the reasons so many people voted for him. They don't see the present system is working in their interests and to a large degree they are right. The disparity in wealth just keeps getting larger regardless of which party is in power. Until that is addressed, things won't change much and there is a good chance of another Trump coming along.

You're right they need to address the issues that led people to vote for trump, you're just wrong about what those are.  Trump won people making more than $100K a year by 12 points. We have five years of accumulated data and observation to show that the issues that drove people to Trump are not "economic anxiety" or any legitimate material concerns, but fear/racial and cultural resentment. I'm not sure how you go about fixing those issues though. The reason I'm not worried that much about another Trump is it will be tough for anyone to tap into the same base without the celebrity and image Trump built for himself.


 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 21, 2021, 12:45:27 pm
You seem to think you have the answers so why don't you share?

The fact is there's no one answer to why 70M people voted for a carnival barker, but here are a couple:

1. He's a guy they know from TV
2. They always vote Republican no matter what
3. Same as #1, but he was also racist
4. They bought his 2016 pitch about "making America great again" and then got sucked into the cult aspect

Anything we're missing?

I agree with those.

Biden is trying to appeal to progressives and minorities.  His VP is a black woman because he said he wanted to choose a black woman.  He's cancelling the Keystone pipeline etc.  Some middle-aged white dude swing voter doesn't care that the VP is a black woman or about climate change, he cares more about the price of gas and that he lost his well paying union job at the factory 10 years ago.  The person who lost their son or husband in Iraq sees Trump not starting stupid wars and actually bringing troops home and trying to get NATO to do their share.

Trump appeals to white middle class voters, which is a big demographic.  Trump tried to bring back manufacturing jobs, he tried to help the steel industry, he tried to fix the free-trade deals and slapped tarrifs on everybody, he tried to curtail illegal immigration.  We can argue he wasn't able to fix these problems much but these people still see him as acting in their interests on these things.  Trump was very tough on China and people are very worried about China, and many think Biden won't be as strong.

I agree there's a race identity element too, like the illegal immigration/wall, Muslim country ban etc.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 12:50:05 pm
I agree with those.

Biden is trying to appeal to progressives and minorities.  His VP is a black woman because he said he wanted to choose a black woman.  He's cancelling the Keystone pipeline etc.  Some middle-aged white dude swing voter doesn't care that the VP is a black woman or about climate change, he cares more about the price of gas and that he lost his well paying union job at the factory 10 years ago.  The person who lost their son or husband in Iraq sees Trump not starting stupid wars and actually bringing troops home and trying to get NATO to do their share.

Trump appeals to white middle class voters, which is a big demographic.  Trump tried to bring back manufacturing jobs, he tried to help the steel industry, he tried to fix the free-trade deals and slapped tarrifs on everybody, he tried to curtail illegal immigration.  We can argue he wasn't able to fix these problems much but these people still see him as acting in their interests on these things.  Trump was very tough on China and people are very worried about China, and many think Biden won't be as strong.


I agree there's a race identity element too, like the illegal immigration/wall, Muslim country ban etc.

Trump never tried to fix any of the problems. The crux of his appeal on these matters was he was a guy who was going to hurt people who weren't white middle class voters.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 21, 2021, 12:55:14 pm
3) People weren't lazy **** in 1776
At least half of them must have been or they wouldn't have needed slaves to do their work. Maybe they were just **** which suggests assholery is the real problem - apparently as big a problem today as it was then, maybe even bigger.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 12:57:29 pm
You're right they need to address the issues that led people to vote for trump, you're just wrong about what those are.  Trump won people making more than $100K a year by 12 points. We have five years of accumulated data and observation to show that the issues that drove people to Trump are not "economic anxiety" or any legitimate material concerns, but fear/racial and cultural resentment. I'm not sure how you go about fixing those issues though. The reason I'm not worried that much about another Trump is it will be tough for anyone to tap into the same base without the celebrity and image Trump built for himself.

It doesn't take someone with a celebrity image, just someone with charisma and the ability to capitalize on and the issues that affect people personally and their worst fears. Adolf was a failed painter. Mussolini was a political non entity who was booted out of the Italian socialist party. Both of them were also enabled by their country's high rollers and industrialists who thought they could use them to advance their own interests.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 12:59:17 pm
It doesn't take someone with a celebrity image, just someone with charisma and the ability to capitalize on and the issues that affect people personally and their worst fears. Adolf was a failed painter. Mussolini was a political non entity who was booted out of the Italian socialist party. Both of them were also enabled by their country's high rollers and industrialists who thought they could use them to advance their own interests.

Don't underestimate how much of Trump's appeal drew from his carefully constructed and completely bogus image as a successful businessman and the reality of him as a political outsider.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 01:01:47 pm
At least half of them must have been or they wouldn't have needed slaves to do their work. Maybe they were just **** which suggests assholery is the real problem - apparently as big a problem today as it was then, maybe even bigger.

Slavery made the agricultural base in the south possible. The textile mills of Britain depended on the cotton they produced.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 01:02:57 pm
Don't underestimate how much of Trump's appeal drew from his carefully constructed and completely bogus image as a successful businessman and the reality of him as a political outsider. any choad can

That explains him. It is a very simplistic view of many of those who voted for him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 01:04:38 pm
That explains him. It is a very simplistic view of many of those who voted for him.

No it's not, it's one wholly consistent with the data and observations we've made.

Look, any choad with a haircut can go up and try to say dumb **** about immigrants, but I think there was something unique about Trump that made the "guy who drives a $70,000 pick up and spent $25,000 on tactical gear but owns a medium sized plumbing business" demographic into cultists.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 01:07:45 pm
No it's not, it's one wholly consistent with the data and observations we've made.

Look, any choad with a haircut can go up and try to say dumb **** about immigrants, but I think there was something unique about Trump that made the "guy who drives a $70,000 pick up and spent $25,000 on tactical gear but owns a medium sized plumbing business" demographics into cultists.

Well, if you aren't prepared to acknowledge the reasons they do it, be prepared for a do over in a few years.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 01:11:24 pm
Well, if you aren't prepared to acknowledge the reasons they do it, be prepared for a do over in a few years.

Yeah yeah yeah you keep saying this over and over but you conveniently never offer any kind of alternative explanation so excuse me for thinking you don't know what you're talking about.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 01:13:36 pm
Yeah yeah yeah you keep saying this over and over but you conveniently never offer any kind of alternative explanation so excuse me for thinking you don't know what you're talking about.

Right back attcha.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 01:21:22 pm
Right back attcha.

LOL you still can't answer the question.

You: You can't dismiss the 70M Trump voters as racists, you need to address their real concerns!

Me: OK what are those concerns?

You:

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/60c8fc32663bfbedc6b35cfcea79b898/tenor.gif?itemid=5629397)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 01:23:06 pm
LOL you still can't answer the question.

You: You can't dismiss the 70M Trump voters as racists, you need to address their real concerns!

Me: OK what are those concerns?

You:

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/60c8fc32663bfbedc6b35cfcea79b898/tenor.gif?itemid=5629397)

I'm not an American but I'm also not dumb enough to write them all off as racists.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 21, 2021, 01:36:32 pm
Sure there are but they aren't the reasons so many people voted for him. They don't see the present system is working in their interests and to a large degree they are right. The disparity in wealth just keeps getting larger regardless of which party is in power. Until that is addressed, things won't change much and there is a good chance of another Trump coming along.
Yup, as the old adage says, following any election the government always wins. The disparity in wealth stems from a disparity of power. This suggests the solution is to redistribute power instead of trying to redistribute wealth which is simply chasing the problem - a problem that's apparently accelerating as reflected in the wealth disparity.  I still remain convinced the root cause of the problem lies in the relationship between the governed and governments or more simply put between the innies and the outies and that the problem of never-ending unequal economic and social outcomes is directly related to lobbying governments in secrecy.

I'm not a mathematician but I bet there's a simple socio-economic algebraic formula that could describe the relationship between and even predict certain outcomes according to how transparency is factored in or out of a system.  Too little transparency results in greater wealth disparity and too much results in less. In theory we just need to dial in the sweet spot. Violence works too but...it's just not as elegant a solution.   
   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 21, 2021, 01:36:47 pm
I still have a chip on the IDENTITY square
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 02:04:25 pm
Yup, as the old adage says, following any election the government always wins. The disparity in wealth stems from a disparity of power. This suggests the solution is to redistribute power instead of trying to redistribute wealth which is simply chasing the problem - a problem that's apparently accelerating as reflected in the wealth disparity.  I still remain convinced the root cause of the problem lies in the relationship between the governed and governments or more simply put between the innies and the outies and that the problem of never-ending unequal economic and social outcomes is directly related to lobbying governments in secrecy.

I'm not a mathematician but I bet there's a simple socio-economic algebraic formula that could describe the relationship between and even predict certain outcomes according to how transparency is factored in or out of a system.  Too little transparency results in greater wealth disparity and too much results in less. In theory we just need to dial in the sweet spot. Violence works too but...it's just not as elegant a solution.   
   


Redistribution of power generally results in a redistribution of wealth. That is what we have been seeing for the past few decades. More and more power has been given to big money through campaign finance and lobbying laws.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 02:21:11 pm
I'm not an American but I'm also not dumb enough to write them all off as racists.

You still didn't answer the question.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 02:25:53 pm
I still have a chip on the IDENTITY square

That's a huge part of it. Trump voters are concerned about social or economic inequality insofar as alleviating it threatens what they see as their rightful place at the top of the order of things.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 02:48:40 pm
You still didn't answer the question.

Neither have you explained why you would write off the 74 million who voted for Trump as racists.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 02:55:08 pm
Neither have you explained why you would write off the 74 million who voted for Trump as racists.

First: I didn't do that.

Second: you're still dodging.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 03:20:16 pm
First: I didn't do that.

Second: you're still dodging.

I'm not dodging anything, I'm just not willing to think I know everything. You want to simplify these people because it makes things easy for you. I'm not trying to define them, you are. I'm just saying pay attention.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 03:30:00 pm
I'm not dodging anything, I'm just not willing to think I know everything. You want to simplify these people because it makes things easy for you. I'm not trying to define them, you are. I'm just saying pay attention.

No one is looking to define anyone, we're trying to understand what motivates these people. You said "70 million voted for Trump because many of their complaints about the way Washington operates and how the establishment is leaving them behind are very real" but you're either unable or unwilling to actually articulate what you think those complaints are.

As for pay attention: pay attention to what, specifically?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 21, 2021, 03:30:46 pm
Anything we're missing?

Conservative media brainwashing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 03:34:13 pm
No one is looking to define anyone, we're trying to understand what motivates these people. You said "70 million voted for Trump because many of their complaints about the way Washington operates and how the establishment is leaving them behind are very real" but you're either unable or unwilling to actually articulate what you think those complaints are.

As for pay attention: pay attention to what, specifically?

You don't seem interested in finding out because you have  already decided.

Quote
Trump voters are concerned about social or economic inequality insofar as alleviating it threatens what they see as their rightful place at the top of the order of things.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 21, 2021, 03:36:59 pm
Neither have you explained why you would write off the 74 million who voted for Trump as racists.

I don't think they're all racist, some are just ignorant.  Some just like his tax-breaks.

A left/right spectrum needs to exist in a healthy democracy but when they become extreme, it's a problem.  When Trump starts his political party, we'll find out how many are wing-nuts and how many are republican.

I have a feeling there are more wing-nuts per capita than in Canada, but I'm hoping a lot more will remain Republican.

Guess we'll find out soon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 03:44:36 pm
I don't think they're all racist, some are just ignorant.  Some just like his tax-breaks.

A left/right spectrum needs to exist in a healthy democracy but when they become extreme, it's a problem.  When Trump starts his political party, we'll find out how many are wing-nuts and how many are republican.

I have a feeling there are more wing-nuts per capita than in Canada, but I'm hoping a lot more will remain Republican.

Guess we'll find out soon.

I kind of agree. What we can't appreciate is how these people felt about life under previous governments, Democrat or Republican and who stood to gain by him coming to power. This didn't happen because people love Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 21, 2021, 03:51:27 pm
I kind of agree. What we can't appreciate is how these people felt about life under previous governments, Democrat or Republican and who stood to gain by him coming to power. This didn't happen because people love Trump.

Actually, I do think a lot of is was Trump-specific.  We dislike him and see right through it but he is a conman who banks on branding himself and he did the same thing for himself in politics.  The boat/truck parades, the hats, flags, that was Trump slapping his name on things like he does with his properties. 

Never in my adult life have I seen the adulation and cult-like behaviour though I've read about it in history books about fascist leaders.

Just because he got 70 million votes doesn't necessarily mean any other Republican could recreate a similar scenario.  Ted Cruz would've fallen flat on his face because he doesn't have the personality.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 04:05:23 pm
Actually, I do think a lot of is was Trump-specific.  We dislike him and see right through it but he is a conman who banks on branding himself and he did the same thing for himself in politics.  The boat/truck parades, the hats, flags, that was Trump slapping his name on things like he does with his properties. 

Never in my adult life have I seen the adulation and cult-like behaviour though I've read about it in history books about fascist leaders.

Just because he got 70 million votes doesn't necessarily mean any other Republican could recreate a similar scenario.  Ted Cruz would've fallen flat on his face because he doesn't have the personality.

Not so sure. Trump has his fanatical base but how big is it really? His faithful used to follow him around the country to his events. He got about 300 people for his departure from Andrews.  I agree when it comes to Cruz. I question whether he could get elected anywhere outside of Texas if he had a half decent opponent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 21, 2021, 04:42:32 pm
Trump never tried to fix any of the problems. The crux of his appeal on these matters was he was a guy who was going to hurt people who weren't white middle class voters.

So you're saying he never put steel tariffs on Canada to try and help out US steel, didn't rip up NAFTA to renegotiate it, didn't put tarrifs on Chinese products, didn't ban all sorts of nefarious Chinese tech because China has been stealing American IP and gov secrets, didn't erect more border wall along Mexican border etc., didn't bring troops home from the middle east?

He did most of things he said he would during the 2016 campaign.  I'm not saying any of this was effective or that I agree with it, i'm saying he did it and the people who voted for him liked him for it, hence many voted for him again in 2020. And yes as I said he did appeal to the racists and white nationalists.

I have an American friend who voted for Trump.  He isn't white, he isn't a racist, he has black people in his family.  He's working class, he's raising his family, his house foreclosed during the 2008 crisis, these are the things he talks about with Trump.

The worst thing the Democrats and GOP could do is ignore the non-racial parts of Trump's appeal and write it off as you are that it was all about white nationalism. Yes some of it was, but many people are also tired of the elitist globalist stuff and want "America First".  Just reporting the news.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 21, 2021, 04:55:30 pm
So you're saying he never put steel tariffs on Canada to try and help out US steel, didn't rip up NAFTA to renegotiate it, didn't put tarrifs on Chinese products, didn't ban all sorts of nefarious Chinese tech because China has been stealing American IP and gov secrets, didn't erect more border wall along Mexican border etc., didn't bring troops home from the middle east?

He did most of things he said he would during the 2016 campaign.  I'm not saying any of this was effective or that I agree with it, i'm saying he did it and the people who voted for him liked him for it, hence many voted for him again in 2020. And yes as I said he did appeal to the racists and white nationalists.

I have an American friend who voted for Trump.  He isn't white, he isn't a racist, he has black people in his family.  He's working class, he's raising his family, his house foreclosed during the 2008 crisis, these are the things he talks about with Trump.

The worst thing the Democrats and GOP could do is ignore the non-racial parts of Trump's appeal and write it off as you are that it was all about white nationalism. Yes some of it was, but many people are also tired of the elitist globalist stuff and want "America First".  Just reporting the news.

OMG just a quick look at what a failure his stupid wall turned out to be and how much he didn't get done and how much it cost the American taxpayer after he claimed he'd charge Mexico to see an example of how he failed to accomplish most of the things he babbled on about in 2016, and ever since.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 21, 2021, 05:00:45 pm
Actually, I do think a lot of is was Trump-specific.  We dislike him and see right through it but he is a conman who banks on branding himself and he did the same thing for himself in politics.  The boat/truck parades, the hats, flags, that was Trump slapping his name on things like he does with his properties. 

Never in my adult life have I seen the adulation and cult-like behaviour though I've read about it in history books about fascist leaders.

Just because he got 70 million votes doesn't necessarily mean any other Republican could recreate a similar scenario.  Ted Cruz would've fallen flat on his face because he doesn't have the personality.
This is true.  Cruz is a guy who just goes up and tells conservatives what he thinks they want to hear. He's a wet noodle and a d-bag.  Trump is a d-bag but he goes up and says what he thinks and doesn't care who he offends and it turns out a lot of people agree with him.  Trump was a crappy leader but he was a leader in the sense that he had a unique vision and got people enthusiastic, kind of like Bernie Sanders.  They both are 2 sides of the same coin, polar opposites.  They both draw huge crowds because their base is enthusiastic about these 2 guys who clearly don't give an eff and say what they think.  Nobody showed up to Cruz or Clinton rallies like that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 21, 2021, 05:03:21 pm
OMG just a quick look at what a failure his stupid wall turned out to be and how much he didn't get done and how much it cost the American taxpayer after he claimed he'd charge Mexico to see an example of how he failed to accomplish most of the things he babbled on about in 2016, and ever since.

ya he didn't accomplish much but people see he was trying so they think "Hey he's fighting for these things I agree with".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 05:15:38 pm
OMG just a quick look at what a failure his stupid wall turned out to be and how much he didn't get done and how much it cost the American taxpayer after he claimed he'd charge Mexico to see an example of how he failed to accomplish most of the things he babbled on about in 2016, and ever since.

Great mounts for teeter totters though.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 05:19:25 pm
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x395/141239595_4246443175370319_3710634895326074042_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=0vJLWMEB52EAX-tSyJs&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&tp=6&oh=4b2b25fc04488d77c5f3dc2d6d1f888e&oe=602F692C)

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s600x600/140994158_4246442582037045_7475590152803624905_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=GBSGBUB146cAX_vOqoa&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&tp=7&oh=e86cdd15fad1b8da3c0c4d992fbac313&oe=602DD7FC)

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s600x600/140732258_4246442862037017_5287319130425611083_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=-sFPV2upinYAX8JR31d&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&tp=7&oh=7ce0225d7e2c68b79a88e14d3f96317c&oe=602E8E3E)

Yay Bernie
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 05:33:02 pm
You don't seem interested in finding out because you have  already decided.

If only someone could present any sort of alternative explanation but alas.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 05:42:53 pm
So you're saying he never put steel tariffs on Canada to try and help out US steel, didn't rip up NAFTA to renegotiate it, didn't put tarrifs on Chinese products, didn't ban all sorts of nefarious Chinese tech because China has been stealing American IP and gov secrets, didn't erect more border wall along Mexican border etc., didn't bring troops home from the middle east?

The border wall didn't get built, US troops are all where they were when he started, the trade wars did more harm than good for the US economy. above all, nothing he did did a damn thing to change the lives of anyone who might have voted for him for the better.


Quote
I have an American friend who voted for Trump.  He isn't white, he isn't a racist, he has black people in his family.  He's working class, he's raising his family, his house foreclosed during the 2008 crisis, these are the things he talks about with Trump.

Ask him if Trump materially changed his circumstances in any way at all.

Quote
The worst thing the Democrats and GOP could do is ignore the non-racial parts of Trump's appeal and write it off as you are that it was all about white nationalism. Yes some of it was, but many people are also tired of the elitist globalist stuff and want "America First".  Just reporting the news.

Which is what?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 07:50:44 pm


Ask him if Trump materially changed his circumstances in any way at all.



You wouldn't be interested in his answer anyway.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 08:14:21 pm
You wouldn't be interested in his answer anyway.
I’d listen if he gave me one instead of equivocating like a little b*tch like some people.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 08:21:32 pm
I’d listen if he gave me one instead of equivocating like a little b*tch like some people.

Would you really? I mean really listen or would you just try to convince him of the error of his ways?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 08:56:53 pm
Would you really? I mean really listen or would you just try to convince him of the error of his ways?

I mean “did your life get better under Trump, yes or no?” is a pretty straightforward question.

Anyway I’m sure you have some great insight into what his motivations really are that you for some reason can’t actually articulate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 09:25:56 pm
I mean “did your life get better under Trump, yes or no?” is a pretty straightforward question.

Anyway I’m sure you have some great insight into what his motivations really are that you for some reason can’t actually articulate.

I don't have any great insight but you seem too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 21, 2021, 10:14:54 pm
Many of Trump’s pardons had financial ties to him.  One guy bought a bunch of condos...   another was a member of Trump’s golf club...   etc. Etc.  Etc.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 21, 2021, 10:19:20 pm
The good news at least for me is that donny os gonzo off the public stage. I do look fwd to having a giggle as he tries somehow to get back on it. Qanon et al I suppose. I point my finger at and comment toward the stupid **** that were ignorant enough to not see what a creep he was/is and voted for him. Thankfully our southern neighbour has come to it's senses by voting in Joe. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 10:52:35 pm
I don't have any great insight but you seem too.

Oh so earlier when you were talking about “paying attention” and all the other stuff about what Trump people really are about... it was all horseshit?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 22, 2021, 10:55:05 am
Neither have you explained why you would write off the 74 million who voted for Trump as racists.
Not the person that was asked earlier, but:

Trump has been quite vocal about his bigotry... calling neo-Nazis "fine people", calling mexicans "rapists", having brown children locked in cages. I doubt very much whether any significant number of voters in the U.S. were unaware of at least some of those.

A Trump voter may not see themselves as 'racist'. They may have friends who are minorities. But still... they looked at Trump's racist actions over the past 4 years, and said "Yup, these actions are acceptable and I want 4 more years of this".

Now, some people might claim "Well, they may not like his racism but they are voting for him because they like tax cuts for millionaires/old people dying of covid/etc.". But in my opinion, deep-seated racism is something that should be an overriding factor... it doesn't matter what other reasons people might have for voting for Trump, his bigotry should, well, trump all those reasons.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 22, 2021, 11:17:45 am
Well if you are going to just write off 74 million as racists, you will have no hope of convincing them of anything.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 11:28:35 am
Well if you are going to just write off 74 million as racists, you will have no hope of convincing them of anything.

So what are they?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 11:30:00 am
Not the person that was asked earlier, but:

Trump has been quite vocal about his bigotry... calling neo-Nazis "fine people", calling mexicans "rapists", having brown children locked in cages. I doubt very much whether any significant number of voters in the U.S. were unaware of at least some of those.

A Trump voter may not see themselves as 'racist'. They may have friends who are minorities. But still... they looked at Trump's racist actions over the past 4 years, and said "Yup, these actions are acceptable and I want 4 more years of this".

Now, some people might claim "Well, they may not like his racism but they are voting for him because they like tax cuts for millionaires/old people dying of covid/etc.". But in my opinion, deep-seated racism is something that should be an overriding factor... it doesn't matter what other reasons people might have for voting for Trump, his bigotry should, well, trump all those reasons.

Not the person that was asked earlier, but:

Trump has been quite vocal about his bigotry... calling neo-Nazis "fine people", calling mexicans "rapists", having brown children locked in cages. I doubt very much whether any significant number of voters in the U.S. were unaware of at least some of those.

A Trump voter may not see themselves as 'racist'. They may have friends who are minorities. But still... they looked at Trump's racist actions over the past 4 years, and said "Yup, these actions are acceptable and I want 4 more years of this".

Now, some people might claim "Well, they may not like his racism but they are voting for him because they like tax cuts for millionaires/old people dying of covid/etc.". But in my opinion, deep-seated racism is something that should be an overriding factor... it doesn't matter what other reasons people might have for voting for Trump, his bigotry should, well, trump all those reasons.

Yup.

The way I see it, there's a few different kinds of voters that make up the Trump/GOP coalition. Yes, there are your dyed in the wool, Confederate Flag-waving racists, but they are a minority. A much larger chunk of that 74 million is what I would call the "I'm not racist, but..." people. The kind of people who think All Lives Matter and who, if you ask them, have no problem with Black people (heck, some of their best friends etc) but they are are just concerned with crime and their own neighbourhood property values and the immigrants taking jobs and simultaneously collecting unemployment and other benefits that should be for hard-working...uh, Americans. They aren't consciously racist necessarily, but they are shaped by, and see the world through the lens of, a racist system. And they see the gains being made by minority groups, both racial and otherwise, as a direct threat to the established hierarchies that keeps them on top. These folks have been the GOP base forever, what's different about Trump is the extent to which he was willing to say the quiet parts loud, but in fact it's just an extension of what Lee Atwater was talking about back in the '80s.

Quote
You start out in 1954 by saying, “N****r, n****r, n****r.” By 1968 you can’t say “n****r”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “N****r, n****r.”
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 22, 2021, 11:31:58 am
So what are they?

Might I suggest this video, particularly from the 3:25 point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7beCOs4yAw
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 11:48:17 am
Might I suggest this video, particularly from the 3:25 point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7beCOs4yAw

I'm on record repeatedly saying that the Democrats need to make improving the material conditions of the working class their main priority. If that brings people who voted Trump in because their main concern was material conditions, great. But it's foolish to ignore the role that racially-tied status anxiety played in driving voters to Trump. That's entirely different from "calling everyone who voted for Trump racist" as you keep saying, which is a total starwman.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 22, 2021, 11:51:05 am
Perhaps you over estimate the number of those who voted on the basis of "racially-tied status anxiety" Bernie seems to think so.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 22, 2021, 12:05:43 pm
Perhaps you over estimate the number of those who voted on the basis of "racially-tied status anxiety" Bernie seems to think so.

Or you underestimate....

I have no idea...  but I would say maybe 90% of Trump voters are deplorable and irredeemable, 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 22, 2021, 12:20:42 pm
Or you underestimate....

I have no idea...  but I would say maybe 90% of Trump voters are deplorable and irredeemable,

Well Nancy seems to be set to bring an article of impeachment against donny to the senate next week. It will be interesting to see how that goes but I'm going to venture a guess that there are enough GOP senators who have had enough of trump that it will pass and those voters will have to find some other nitwit to cast ballots for.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-receive-trump-impeachment-article-monday-senate-trial-could-begin-n1255310

The House impeached Trump the week before he left office for allegedly inciting a deadly riot at the Capitol on Jan. 6 in an attempt to overturn the result of the 2020 election. The Senate will now be required to determine whether he should be convicted of the charge, a decision that could prohibit him from running for public office again.
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 22, 2021, 12:22:03 pm
Well if you are going to just write off 74 million as racists, you will have no hope of convincing them of anything.
Do you really think you'd have much luck convincing them they were wrong if you didn't call out their racism?

First of all, many of them have been drinking the republican Kool-aide for years... Look at the number of republicans who thought it was a 'rigged election' weeks after Biden won? Not sure how those people could be convinced of anything at this point.

Secondly, if you don't call out their racism, why should they bother to change? If they see it as just "oh, difference in policy, no big deal" they won't realize the under-current of racism that exists in republican activities.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 22, 2021, 12:24:05 pm
Well Nancy seems to be set to bring an article of impeachment against donny to the senate next week. It will be interesting to see how that goes but I'm going to venture a guess that there are enough GOP senators who have had enough of trump that it will pass and those voters will have to find some other nitwit to cast ballots for.
If republicans vote for impeachment, it won't be because "gosh Trump was morally wrong", it will be a tactical decision... "Trump could cause problems with us getting power in the future so we must stop him".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 12:26:24 pm
Perhaps you over estimate the number of those who voted on the basis of "racially-tied status anxiety" Bernie seems to think so.

I don't think he's putting a number on that.

In any case, I've already explained how you go about reaching those people, which is the same way you reach the millions more poor, predominately nonwhite nonvoters. But the idea that they shouldn't even talk about the role of race/racism because it might turn off a few people who didn't vote for them the last two times? Meh.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 22, 2021, 12:36:34 pm
If republicans vote for impeachment, it won't be because "gosh Trump was morally wrong", it will be a tactical decision... "Trump could cause problems with us getting power in the future so we must stop him".

A tactical decision yes because I think even Republicans realize trump went way too far inciting rioters to cause what we saw happen January 6. Whether they think it was "morally wrong" or not I don't know, I just think they know it was wrong and don't like the association to such an event.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 22, 2021, 12:54:41 pm
I don't think he's putting a number on that.

In any case, I've already explained how you go about reaching those people, which is the same way you reach the millions more poor, predominately nonwhite nonvoters. But the idea that they shouldn't even talk about the role of race/racism because it might turn off a few people who didn't vote for them the last two times? Meh.

He said "tens of millions". Why would you think accusing someone of racism would cause them to change the way they vote?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 22, 2021, 01:52:30 pm
Quote
If republicans vote for impeachment, it won't be because "gosh Trump was morally wrong", it will be a tactical decision... "Trump could cause problems with us getting power in the future so we must stop him".
A tactical decision yes because I think even Republicans realize trump went way too far inciting rioters to cause what we saw happen January 6. Whether they think it was "morally wrong" or not I don't know, I just think they know it was wrong and don't like the association to such an event.
I suspect to most republican congress-critter, it was wrong for the simple reason that it didn't work.

Had it worked, they would have all lined up to support Trump,  as if the events during the riot were the political norm.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 22, 2021, 01:57:59 pm
A tactical decision yes because I think even Republicans realize trump went way too far inciting rioters to cause what we saw happen January 6. Whether they think it was "morally wrong" or not I don't know, I just think they know it was wrong and don't like the association to such an event.

I suspect to most republican congress-critter, it was wrong for the simple reason that it didn't work.

Had it worked, they would have all lined up to support Trump,  as if the events during the riot were the political norm.

A scary thought but you might be right. Let's see how the impeachment issue works out.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 22, 2021, 02:37:55 pm
 :D

"And Jesus said "I shall build a wall unto my Father and Egypt shall pay for it" and he did not build the wall, and Egypt did not pay.  And Simon-Bannon asked the people for gold to pay for the wall and stole the gold and Jesus forgave Simon-Bannon and said "You need to give me some of the gold""
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 02:40:30 pm
He said "tens of millions".

I don't see any evidence that that specific demographic (Trump voters who only voted for Trump because of economic concerns) is that large. In 2016, for example, only a third of Trump supporters had household incomes at or below the national median of about $50,000. And of those how many were economically disadvantage AND not motivated by racial resentment/status anxiety?

Quote
b]Why would you think accusing someone of racism would cause them to change the way they vote?[/b]

If you offer them something real and they are more butthurt about being called racist after voting for a racist (twice!) to vote for what you're offering, f**k 'em.

Like I said, there's tens of millions of people who don't vote because they don't think it matters, I'd rather engage those voters than small minority of non-racist Trump voters.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 22, 2021, 02:40:38 pm
:D

"And Jesus said "I shall build a wall unto my Father and Egypt shall pay for it" and he did not build the wall, and Egypt did not pay.  And Simon-Bannon asked the people for gold to pay for the wall and stole the gold and Jesus forgave Simon-Bannon and said "You need to give me some of the gold""
Was that a reading from two Corinthians?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 22, 2021, 03:02:31 pm

Like I said, there's tens of millions of people who don't vote because they don't think it matters, I'd rather engage those voters than small minority of non-racist Trump voters.
Except you have no clue who they might be because you have already branded the majority as being racist.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 22, 2021, 03:06:59 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/sENv1ts.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 03:15:54 pm
Except you have no clue who they might be because you have already branded the majority as being racist.

Why do you act like we don't have access to extensive data on voter demographics?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 22, 2021, 03:27:57 pm
Quote
Like I said, there's tens of millions of people who don't vote because they don't think it matters, I'd rather engage those voters than small minority of non-racist Trump voters.
Except you have no clue who they might be because you have already branded the majority as being racist.
No he didn't.

He voted TRUMP voters racist.  The ones that he wants to reach are the ones who didn't vote at all, for either party.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 03:38:31 pm
Except you have no clue who they might be because you have already branded the majority as being racist.

No he didn't.

He voted TRUMP voters racist.  The ones that he wants to reach are the ones who didn't vote at all, for either party.

It's funny: support for Trump actually dropped among whites in 2020 compared to 2016, so I think you can chalk some of that up to the non-racist parts of the 2016 Trump base switching over.

I also don't understand the idea that someone whose big concerns are material getting so offended by being lumped in with racists that they would vote against their own interests. It's totally irrational behaviour, so why would anyone want to cater to that?

Finally, isn't it wild that Democrats are always the ones who need to reach out and understand GOP voters and try and win them over, but the GOP never ever does the same for Democrat voters?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 22, 2021, 05:09:33 pm
Except you have no clue who they might be because you have already branded the majority as being racist.

No he didn't.

He voted TRUMP voters racist.  The ones that he wants to reach are the ones who didn't vote at all, for either party.

You better watch that interview again, Bernie said no such thing.

All Trump voters are racist, therefore all Biden voters are Communist.
See how that works. You are the same as them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 22, 2021, 05:14:04 pm
Why do you act like we don't have access to extensive data on voter demographics?

What voter demographic has Racist as a category?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 05:16:43 pm
What voter demographic has Racist as a category?

Are you playing dumb or is it not an act?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 22, 2021, 05:19:20 pm
Are you playing dumb or is it not an act?
Answer the question. What demographic listing has racist as a category?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 05:21:34 pm
Answer the question. What demographic listing has racist as a category?

So it's not an act, then?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 22, 2021, 05:25:34 pm
So it's not an act, then?

So don't make stupid statements you can't back up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 06:39:37 pm
So don't make stupid statements you can't back up.

Hey **** you. You just spent like four pages ducking the question of who you think the base of Trump's support is and now you're playing stupid about voter demographics. You're as bad as Shady, but at least that guy is up front about being a bad faith troll.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 22, 2021, 08:32:50 pm
Hey **** you. You just spent like four pages ducking the question of who you think the base of Trump's support is and now you're playing stupid about voter demographics. You're as bad as Shady, but at least that guy is up front about being a bad faith troll.

You were the one who yapped about demographics. I just challenged it.

Zealot noun

a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.

Your judgement is final, all 74 million of them can be nothing other than what you say they are.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 23, 2021, 10:04:34 am
You were the one who yapped about demographics. I just challenged it.


Because of either a bad faith interpretation of what I said or genuine stupidity on your part.

Quote
Zealot noun

a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.

Your judgement is final, all 74 million of them can be nothing other than what you say they are.

brainlet - a person who is so stupid it defies all known laws

Evidently you haven’t comprehended a single thing I’ve said in this thread.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 25, 2021, 01:24:35 pm
All Trump voters are racist, therefore all Biden voters are Communist.
See how that works. You are the same as them.
Bad comparison.

Trump is a racist/bigot. This is obvious, both from his rhetoric (neo-nazis are fine people), and from his actions (muslim ban). Anyone who votes for Trump is likely aware of that, has evaluated his words and actions, and said "Yup, I'm fine with that". Even if they don't think they are racist, or recognize Trump as a bigot, they are still giving their seal of approval to him.

On the other hand, Biden is not a communist. Communism as an economic theory involves direct state control/ownership of businesses. Being in favor of social programs and/or greater economic regulation (things that Biden does favor) does not make someone a 'communist' since it does not involve the type of direct ownership/control... at best it would make them a 'social democrat'.  So someone could vote for Biden without being a communist (or even being 'pro-communist') because the label does not apply to Biden.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 26, 2021, 09:14:15 pm
Mitch McConnell said no trial until Trump was out of office.  Now he says there can’t be a trial cuz Trump is out of office.   Hmmm....  odd.

He voted not to have a trial along with 44 other Republican senators.   

They want to pretend there was no attack on the Capitol. They’re traitors to their country.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 26, 2021, 09:42:25 pm
Mitch McConnell said no trial until Trump was out of office.  Now he says there can’t be a trial cuz Trump is out of office.   Hmmm....  odd.

He voted not to have a trial along with 44 other Republican senators.   

They want to pretend there was no attack on the Capitol. They’re traitors to their country.
The real traitors are those who keep voting them back into power again.  Deplorables is a spot on identity.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 26, 2021, 10:02:03 pm
Mitch McConnell said no trial until Trump was out of office.  Now he says there can’t be a trial cuz Trump is out of office.   Hmmm....  odd.

He voted not to have a trial along with 44 other Republican senators.   

They want to pretend there was no attack on the Capitol. They’re traitors to their country.

They won't impeach him because it will hurt them politically with their voters.  So you and eyeball are both right.  Traitors.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 26, 2021, 10:13:18 pm
They won't impeach him because it will hurt them politically with their voters.
And if they don't history needs to record that too. That's the real reason for this impeachment, history. Let it forever be known who was on the stupidest side of it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 28, 2021, 03:20:12 pm
Any ideas as to how and how long it may take the US to regain it's previous status after four years of Trump and the activities he was able to instigate January 6th? I suspect the emergence of MAGA media and such display a serious rash on the arse of the USA that won't be healed quickly. I hope I'm wrong. good luck to Joe.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 28, 2021, 04:02:23 pm
Any ideas as to how and how long it may take the US to regain it's previous status after four years of Trump and the activities he was able to instigate January 6th? I suspect the emergence of MAGA media and such display a serious rash on the arse of the USA that won't be healed quickly. I hope I'm wrong. good luck to Joe.

How long did it take the Empire to regain its status after the Visigoths sacked Rome?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 28, 2021, 04:10:35 pm
How long did it take the Empire to regain its status after the Visigoths sacked Rome?

Trump is making noises about starting his own new party which could effectively split the GOP. I suppose if he is successful at that we will be able to watch more attacks on the capitol. I'm so glad I'm not an American, especially these days and looking forward.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 28, 2021, 04:17:43 pm
And if they don't history needs to record that too. That's the real reason for this impeachment, history. Let it forever be known who was on the stupidest side of it.
I think the reason for impeachment is to hold Trump accountable and prevent him from ever running for office again, plus not getting his pension and security briefings etc.

Soldiers go and risk their lives for their country, and these people won't even cast an impeachment vote that might get them not re-elected by stupid racist conspiracy nuts.  Take the bullet for your country cowards.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 28, 2021, 04:20:35 pm
Trump is making noises about starting his own new party which could effectively split the GOP. I suppose if he is successful at that we will be able to watch more attacks on the capitol. I'm so glad I'm not an American, especially these days and looking forward.

I don't think he will, because the GOP has made it clear they are committed to Trumpism and all that it entails, which is performative outrage on one hand and the continued transfer of wealth upwards on the other.

I think the real question is how long the establishment can keep a lid on the growing anger at the inequalities of the system and the cruelties upon which it sustains itself.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 28, 2021, 04:31:31 pm
I don't think he will, because the GOP has made it clear they are committed to Trumpism and all that it entails, which is performative outrage on one hand and the continued transfer of wealth upwards on the other.

I think the real question is how long the establishment can keep a lid on the growing anger at the inequalities of the system and the cruelties upon which it sustains itself.

Republican party, will they and if so how long will it take them to purge themselves of Donald Trump? I guess that's my question standing back where I am.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 28, 2021, 04:51:26 pm
Republican party, will they and if so how long will it take them to purge themselves of Donald Trump? I guess that's my question standing back where I am.

Never. Either Trump or one of his kids (probably Ivanka) will make a run at some point. And if that doesn't happen, every single Republican who wants to take a run at the big chair will have to put on orangeface to have a shot at winning. Because at this point Trump and the GOP are one and the same.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 29, 2021, 10:13:32 am
Trump is making noises about starting his own new party which could effectively split the GOP.
There was some talk of Trump forming his own party, but supposedly he has cooled on the idea when it became clear that the current republican party still mainly consists of MAGAchuds and bootlickers. (Of course, Trump is wildly inconsistent, so who knows if the idea might re-appear.)

There is a possibility he might form his own "party" that is still an element of the Republican party as a whole (much like the 'tea partiers' form a semi-cohesive group in congress.) Unfortunately that would continue to give him significant political influence.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2021/01/25/trump-campaign-distances-itself-from-rogue-patriot-party/?sh=3016f52353ba

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 29, 2021, 10:32:49 am
The Republicans don't have an alternative vision, so the parasite is becoming the host.

Given that the voters rejected the option when the orange master himself was at the helm, this new image of the party as an army of footsoldiers taking orders for Mar-a-Lago seems like a non-starter.

Of course, if they just want to get elected to their individual districts and get lobby money then... perfect !
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 29, 2021, 10:59:47 am
The Republicans don't have an alternative vision, so the parasite is becoming the host.

Given that the voters rejected the option when the orange master himself was at the helm, this new image of the party as an army of footsoldiers taking orders for Mar-a-Lago seems like a non-starter.

Of course, if they just want to get elected to their individual districts and get lobby money then... perfect !

I think it's more of a human centipede situation, but I'm not sure whose mouth is sewn to whose a**hole.

When you have a political party that is opposed to the very idea of good governance, it's not a surprise that conspiracy and cultural grievance rushes in to fill the void where policy should be.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 30, 2021, 06:47:47 pm
Donald Trump, Marjorie Taylor Greene, QANON, etc., how and why did Americans become so **** stupid?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 30, 2021, 07:25:28 pm
We have them too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 30, 2021, 08:55:56 pm
Quote
Donald Trump, Marjorie Taylor Greene, QANON, etc., how and why did Americans become so **** stupid?
Quote
We have them too.
We do, but in Canada, the really stupid ones are marginalized. They have little political power. In the United states, the stupid people are extremely influential.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 30, 2021, 09:08:15 pm
We do, but in Canada, the really stupid ones are marginalized. They have little political power. In the United states, the stupid people are extremely influential.

So far but we shouldn't get complacent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 30, 2021, 09:48:42 pm
So how are things going on the impeachment front?

From: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/30/politics/butch-bowers-deborah-barbier-trump-impeachment-team/index.html
Five of former President Donald Trump's impeachment defense team attorneys have stepped aside...
...
A person familiar with the departures told CNN that Trump wanted the attorneys to argue there was mass election fraud...rather than focus on the legality of convicting a president after he's left office. Trump was not receptive to the discussions...


So Trump's impeachment defense is in tatters. Unfortunately, given the lack of integrity with Republican congress-critters, Trump could hire Lionel Hutz as his lawyer, and they will still likely vote not to convict, regardless of what happens at trial.

It will be interesting to see if Trump manages to find lawyers willing to push his bizarre "election fraud" claims, or whether he will actually find lawyers who can convince him to actually put on a less embarrassing defense.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on January 31, 2021, 06:56:24 pm
How **** sleazy can it get I wonder. Hopefully she gets Covid and dies and passes it on to scumbag trump to take him out as well.

A maskless Marjorie Taylor Greene & her staff berated me in a hallway. She targeted me & others on social media.

I'm moving my office away from hers for my team's safety.

I've called for the expulsion of members who incited the insurrection from Day 1. Bring H.Res 25 to a vote.
8:56 AM · Jan 29, 2021

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/01/29/marjorie-taylor-greene-accused-of-berating-democratic-congresswoman-in-hallway/?sh=63f2a8114a43
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 31, 2021, 08:28:29 pm
Looks like Trump has found replacement lawyers for his impeachment defense.

The lawyers he selected look... stellar.

From: https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-new-impeachment-team-ex-da-bruce-castor-alabama-lawyer-david-schoen
Bruce Castor and David Schoen will be replacing no fewer than five other lawyers who split with Trump over strategy
...
Castor served as the Republican district attorney of Montgomery County, Pennsylvania, where he made the decision not to prosecute (Bill) Cosby when Andrea Constand first accused the comedian of sexual assault...Castor’s successor brought charges against him....Cosby eventually stood trial twice, was convicted, and is in prison. Constand sued Castor for defamation in a case that was settled out of court, and the ex-DA filed a personal injury claim against the sex assault victim, arguing that Constand caused him to lose a 2015 bid for DA. That case was dismissed.
...
Schoen is a veteran trial attorney who has represented federal criminal defendants, including Trump crony Roger Stone...
He was most recently in the headlines for meeting with **** sex-trafficker Jeffrey Epstein before his death in prison


Gotta wonder about Castor... bringing what looks like a frivolous lawsuit against a sexual assault victim suggests he does not have all his legal oars in the watter.

And Schoen... Hmmm... Stone was found guilty, was he not? (Not that that was necessarily the result of bad lawyering...but he did fail to keep his client from making a fool of himself.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 01, 2021, 11:53:09 am
Trump is still trying to float his BS as to election fraud rather than questioning the constitutionality as to impeaching a president no longer in office which is apparently why his previous legal team (5) all left. Once again it seems his ego will cost him dearly.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/31/politics/trump-new-lawyers/index.html

One point of friction with his previous team was Trump wanted the attorneys to focus on his election fraud claims rather than the constitutionality of convicting a former president.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on February 01, 2021, 12:05:55 pm
Trump is still trying to float his BS as to election fraud rather than questioning the constitutionality as to impeaching a president no longer in office which is apparently why his previous legal team (5) all left. Once again it seems his ego will cost him dearly.
Yes but don't lose sight of the pain he's also causing the GOP.

Go Trump Go!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 01, 2021, 12:15:58 pm
Yes but don't lose sight of the pain he's also causing the GOP.

Go Trump Go!

True enough. His continued meddling could leave the party in complete shambles with the likes of Marjorie Greene in control.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 01, 2021, 01:09:28 pm
Trump is still trying to float his BS as to election fraud rather than questioning the constitutionality as to impeaching a president no longer in office which is apparently why his previous legal team (5) all left. Once again it seems his ego will cost him dearly.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/31/politics/trump-new-lawyers/index.html

One point of friction with his previous team was Trump wanted the attorneys to focus on his election fraud claims rather than the constitutionality of convicting a former president.

Does the argument matter?   The Republicans aren’t going to convict.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 01, 2021, 02:01:29 pm
Does the argument matter?   The Republicans aren’t going to convict.

No they won't likely convict but I'm sure the Dems are happy now they have control of both houses and the WH and the repubs are falling into such disaray.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on February 01, 2021, 03:34:25 pm
No they won't likely convict but I'm sure the Dems are happy now they have control of both houses and the WH and the repubs are falling into such disaray.

The Republicans aren't in disarray. They're already rallying to use bad faith pleas for bipartisanship to stonewall anything the Dems do. It's the only thing they're good at.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 01, 2021, 04:09:57 pm
I think it's more of a human centipede situation, but I'm not sure whose mouth is sewn to whose a**hole.

When you have a political party that is opposed to the very idea of good governance, it's not a surprise that conspiracy and cultural grievance rushes in to fill the void where policy should be.

They developed the BEST HEALTH PLAN but ran out of time to deliver it :D

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 02, 2021, 04:50:07 pm
And Trump's impeachment defense is off to a good start...

From: https://www.rawstory.com/trump-impeachment-2650257648/
Former President Donald Trump's new impeachment attorneys couldn't go even one sentence without a typo...attorneys Bruce Castor and David Schoen address the "members of the Unites (sic) States Senate".


You know, that could explain Trump's criminal activity... he doesn't even know what country he was president of, and thought he was the leader of a country (this Unites States) where rioting was legal.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 02, 2021, 06:03:52 pm
There are still some brain dead morons who support the likes, of,trump, (shady) but the most of us have moved on. thankfully.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 02, 2021, 06:12:16 pm
Loong satisfyingly read for those who are missing their TDS

https://www.axios.com/trump-oval-office-meeting-sidney-powell-a8e1e466-2e42-42d0-9cf1-26eb267f8723.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 03, 2021, 09:01:12 am
Looks like Trump was right! There is evidence of voter fraud in Georgia! We need to immediately remove Biden from office until this can be sorted out!

From: https://www.npr.org/2021/02/02/963467966/pro-trump-election-conspiracist-lin-wood-under-investigation-for-illegal-voting
The Georgia secretary of state's office is investigating allegations that Lin Wood, a high-profile pro-Trump attorney who launched fruitless challenges to election results and pushed baseless conspiracies of fraud, may have illegally voted in the November general election

Oops... never mind.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on February 03, 2021, 09:22:52 am
Looks like Trump was right! There is evidence of voter fraud in Georgia! We need to immediately remove Biden from office until this can be sorted out!

From: https://www.npr.org/2021/02/02/963467966/pro-trump-election-conspiracist-lin-wood-under-investigation-for-illegal-voting
The Georgia secretary of state's office is investigating allegations that Lin Wood, a high-profile pro-Trump attorney who launched fruitless challenges to election results and pushed baseless conspiracies of fraud, may have illegally voted in the November general election

Oops... never mind.


(https://media1.tenor.com/images/3f0497306d50308868109ad3f10d3778/tenor.gif?itemid=4713511)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 03, 2021, 07:34:31 pm
The Republicans now want to kick out Liz Chenney, but keep Greene. How much more **** up could this party get I wonder? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 03, 2021, 07:54:45 pm
https://www.mediaite.com/news/shock-poll-republican-support-for-trump-2024-plummets-by-a-whopping-20-points-since-december/

SHOCK POLL: Republican Support for Trump 2024 Plummets By a WHOPPING 20 POINTS Since December
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on February 03, 2021, 10:33:41 pm

SHOCK POLL: Republican Support for Trump 2024 Plummets By a WHOPPING 20 POINTS Since December
The level of support for Republicans amongst Trump supporters will be the bigger shock for the GOP.

I'm a little puzzled why House Democrats are so keen to go after Marjorie Taylor Greene, she's at least as good an excuse for not voting GOP as Trump. Let rabid dogs lie.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 04, 2021, 01:44:37 am
The level of support for Republicans amongst Trump supporters will be the bigger shock for the GOP.

I'm a little puzzled why House Democrats are so keen to go after Marjorie Taylor Greene, she's at least as good an excuse for not voting GOP as Trump. Let rabid dogs lie.

There’s only so much that one can let slide for political expediency....   they can’t let her say that her colleagues in the other political party deserve a bullet in the head.

Eventually, once you are seen to be so spineless that you refuse to stand up to people like that, your own constituents are going to wonder what the hell you’re doing and stop voting fo you.

And, when you don’t put a stop to that sort of thing, one day you’re going to find yourself with a bullet in your head.  Then you’ll wonder why you didn’t maybe try and put a stop to that...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 04, 2021, 05:40:51 am
And over what exactly?

Why are 30% of Americans eagerly waiting for martial law?  Why are they currently describing themselves as living under Communism?

Trump exploited a fatal character flaw in the culture and made it worse.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on February 04, 2021, 10:39:48 am
And, when you don’t put a stop to that sort of thing, one day you’re going to find yourself with a bullet in your head.  Then you’ll wonder why you didn’t maybe try and put a stop to that...
True enough. If you recall I was always pretty certain Trump's assassination would be an inside job.

What?  Like I'm the only guy who thought that?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on February 04, 2021, 11:37:18 am
https://www.mediaite.com/news/shock-poll-republican-support-for-trump-2024-plummets-by-a-whopping-20-points-since-december/

SHOCK POLL: Republican Support for Trump 2024 Plummets By a WHOPPING 20 POINTS Since December

I think they simply forgot who he is because he's no longer on Twitter and the TV. Republicans don't possess object permanence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 04, 2021, 12:34:13 pm
This MT Greene is quite the loop **** eh. No wonder she and Trump are good buddies. I see now she finally retracts a few previous statements for instance admitting a plane did hit the Pentagon. Let's see how her vote goes today.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 04, 2021, 01:31:16 pm
This MT Greene is quite the loop **** eh. No wonder she and Trump are good buddies. I see now she finally retracts a few previous statements for instance admitting a plane did hit the Pentagon. Let's see how her vote goes today.

Did she?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 04, 2021, 01:41:58 pm
Did she?

well I guess we can't be sure. She spoke a bit earlier on today in that direction but I'm not convinced. Like I say she's a trump bumpy so I wouldn't trust her as far as I could throw her.

GEORGIA — Georgia Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene is rolling back one of her baseless conspiracy theories amid pressure from fellow Republicans.

https://patch.com/georgia/atlanta/marjorie-taylor-green-rolls-back-false-flag-parkland-rhetoric
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on February 04, 2021, 01:42:35 pm
Did she?

No of course she didn't.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 09, 2021, 08:21:13 pm
Trump’s lawyer said in his impeachment trial today that Trump can’t be impeached now that he’s out of office, but should be charged criminally as a remedy to a president who does terrible things in his last days in office.

 :o

Ok?

 ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 10, 2021, 06:26:05 am
I would love for him to fire this one too.

It looked like he was winging it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 10, 2021, 01:08:26 pm
I would love for him to fire this one too.

It looked like he was winging it.

Looks like Trump is scraping the bottom of the barrel in his search for lawyers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 10, 2021, 01:17:03 pm
Looks like Trump is scraping the bottom of the barrel in his search for lawyers.

Iam not a lawyer but one wouldn't need to be to know Castor isn't much of one either. I happened to be listening during his boring babble and I shook my head a few times wondering if my ears were working right when he would contradict himself, say things that were actually detrimental to his client etc., etc. apparently Trump was just a little PO'ed. I get the idea that these days a proper lawyer wouldn't touch Trump with a 10 foot pole.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 10, 2021, 04:44:08 pm
Iam not a lawyer but one wouldn't need to be to know Castor isn't much of one either. I happened to be listening during his boring babble and I shook my head a few times wondering if my ears were working right when he would contradict himself, say things that were actually detrimental to his client etc., etc. apparently Trump was just a little PO'ed. I get the idea that these days a proper lawyer wouldn't touch Trump with a 10 foot pole.

A lot of Trump's ass kissing senators are lawyers. They won't even step up to defend him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 10, 2021, 05:10:09 pm
A lot of Trump's ass kissing senators are lawyers. They won't even step up to defend him.

Some of the videos that have been shown so far are pretty damning toward Trump, and overall pretty scary when you consider this is America. and of course there are enough Repubs. that claim they don't give a **** that unlikely Trump will have to suffer the consequences. However, I suspect there will be some legal/criminal charges he won't be able to ignore so easily.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on February 11, 2021, 12:00:32 pm
It's the GOP that's suffering the consequences of Trump's presidency.

Quote
Former Republican officials float possibility of forming 'center-right' party

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/11/politics/republican-officials-discuss-forming-party/index.html

I think it's fair to say that GOPer's who maintain Trump's impeachment is dividing the nation are just conflating/confusing their party with the country.  They're that full of themselves.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 11, 2021, 01:15:48 pm
Quote
This MT Greene is quite the loop **** eh. No wonder she and Trump are good buddies. I see now she finally retracts a few previous statements for instance admitting a plane did hit the Pentagon. Let's see how her vote goes today.
Did she?
She gave a sort of non-apology apology...

In her fake apology she admitted 9/11 happened (despite spreading a 'no plane' conspiracy earlier), that school shootings are terrible (despite claiming 'false flag' previously), etc. But did little to address her role in addressing the details of her falsehoods (in other words, her comments were extremely general in nature), and (if I remember correctly) did not apologize for comments she made suggesting killing Obama and Pelosi, or that Omar couldn't be American because she was Muslim.

She also tried to shift the blame to social media for being the ones to expose her to these false ideas, and claimed that because they were in the past they don't matter.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 11, 2021, 01:19:55 pm
Trump’s lawyer said in his impeachment trial today that Trump can’t be impeached now that he’s out of office, but should be charged criminally as a remedy to a president who does terrible things in his last days in office.
Better yet, maybe they can do both!!!

From: https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/10/politics/trump-georgia-criminal-investigation-election/index.html
A prosecutor in Fulton County, Georgia, has opened a criminal investigation into former President Donald Trump for his "attempts to influence the administration of the 2020 Georgia general election."...The investigation comes as Raffensperger's office has launched its own probe into Trump's attempts to overturn the election, an inquiry that includes a review of both that call and another phone call the then-President made to a Georgia election official.

Georgia has been a pretty right-leaning state in the past, so I hate to get my hopes up. But maybe Stubby McBonespurs managed to ****-off enough people that they might actually follow through.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 11, 2021, 01:45:24 pm
Better yet, maybe they can do both!!!

From: https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/10/politics/trump-georgia-criminal-investigation-election/index.html
A prosecutor in Fulton County, Georgia, has opened a criminal investigation into former President Donald Trump for his "attempts to influence the administration of the 2020 Georgia general election."...The investigation comes as Raffensperger's office has launched its own probe into Trump's attempts to overturn the election, an inquiry that includes a review of both that call and another phone call the then-President made to a Georgia election official.

Georgia has been a pretty right-leaning state in the past, so I hate to get my hopes up. But maybe Stubby McBonespurs managed to ****-off enough people that they might actually follow through.

When a prosecution depends on who’s in power in some states, I think the country is well on its way to becoming a failed state. 

Republicans ignoring illegal/corrupt acts done by Republicans is not much of a justice system.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 12, 2021, 07:29:47 am
Looks like Trump is scraping the bottom of the barrel in his search for lawyers.
Who needs a lawyer when your co-conspirators are just going to set you free anyway?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 12, 2021, 09:16:16 am
Who needs a lawyer when your co-conspirators are just going to set you free anyway?

As far as the trial goes but this trial is more about what kind of image it leaves for the Republican Party.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 12, 2021, 09:44:10 am
As far as the trial goes but this trial is more about what kind of image it leaves for the Republican Party.
Who cares about image when your voters literally think the other party is full of baby-raping Satanists?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 12, 2021, 09:52:58 am
Who cares about image when your voters literally think the other party is full of baby-raping Satanists?

only 30%  8)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 12, 2021, 10:00:48 am
only 30%  8)
Their voters aren't the entire US population. Only 60% vote and some 70-80% of Republicans (their voters) believe that garbage.

So yeah.

Who cares about image when your voters...blah blah blah.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on February 12, 2021, 10:01:40 am
**** the other guys and let gerrymandering sort it out!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 12, 2021, 11:23:41 am
Just listening to Trump's ambulance chaser Van der Veen representing him at the hearings. He's as stupidly rambling as was Castor from what I'm hearing so far. Herr trumpty dumpty must be embarrased yet again, and rightly so.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 12, 2021, 11:44:44 am
Just listening to Trump's ambulance chaser Van der Veen representing him at the hearings. He's as stupidly rambling as was Castor from what I'm hearing so far. Herr trumpty dumpty must be embarrased yet again, and rightly so.

The only thing Trump needs to worry about is actual prosecutions.  His defence council can say he’s guilty and there still won’t be the votes to convict.   Not sure why you think what his lawyers say matters one bit. 

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 12, 2021, 12:57:53 pm
The only thing Trump needs to worry about is actual prosecutions.  His defence council can say he’s guilty and there still won’t be the votes to convict.   Not sure why you think what his lawyers say matters one bit.

Having just listened to van der Veen I totally agreee. His current lawyer rep. has trouble pronouncing anything bigger than two syllable words. Plus he's flogging falsehoods that are easy enough to pinpoint.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 15, 2021, 01:41:15 pm
Well now Trump has ducked impeachment conviction, let's get the actual real litigations going and lets see if he gets convicted in an real court. He certainly deserves it. I think now the Oxford dictionary should amend their definition of the word "Hypocrite" and place a photo of Mitch McConnell there. Of course Lindsay Graham, who would get down on his knees and lick Trump's arse if asked to also belongs there, but that would be just tooooo creepy. What a shyte show the gop has become!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on February 15, 2021, 02:11:35 pm
McConnell is the most shameless politician I've ever seen in my life.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 15, 2021, 03:26:43 pm
McConnell is the most shameless politician I've ever seen in my life.

He and Graham are vying for the title but I think Mitch leapt ahead with that incredible post vote speech.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 15, 2021, 04:00:34 pm
I was just guessing their numbers.

Which reminds me... I have a poll culture update for that thread


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on February 15, 2021, 06:25:32 pm
He and Graham are vying for the title but I think Mitch leapt ahead with that incredible post vote speech.
Make America Gag Again

...and again and again and again...I guess they're determined to get better at it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 17, 2021, 11:36:28 am
Georgia Republicans are trying to change their state constitution all of a sudden to try and prevent one of their counties from charging Trump criminally, with the added benefit of disenfranchising black people!  Bonus!

https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/georgia-republicans-are-trying-to-change-the-rules-for-fani-williss-prosecution-of-donald-trump-for-election-crimes/

Quote
Georgia state Republicans introduced a resolution Thursday that seeks to change the Georgia State Constitution to mandate the use of state-wide grand juries in prosecutions involving election crimes. The move would force prosecutors to draw more grand jurors from predominantly Republican rural areas of the state.

The change, if adopted, could create a significant hurdle for any case brought by Willis, who would normally bring the results of a criminal investigation before a Fulton County grand jury. As Georgia State University College of Law Professor Anthony Michael Kreis commented on Twitter, using state-wide grand juries instead of county-wide ones would likely dilute the representation of Black residents on the panel.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 17, 2021, 01:48:05 pm
Georgia Republicans are trying to change their state constitution all of a sudden to try and prevent one of their counties from charging Trump criminally, with the added benefit of disenfranchising black people!  Bonus!

https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/georgia-republicans-are-trying-to-change-the-rules-for-fani-williss-prosecution-of-donald-trump-for-election-crimes/

I'm getting a kick out of this fued erupting between donny and mitch.

“Mitch is a dour, sullen, and unsmiling political hack, and if Republican Senators are going to stay with him, they will not win again,” Trump said in a statement just three days after McConnell excoriated him following the former president’s second impeachment trial, on a charge of inciting the deadly attack on the U.S. Capitol.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-mcconnell/trump-lashes-out-at-mcconnell-in-deepening-feud-between-top-republicans-idUSKBN2AG2LL?il=0
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 17, 2021, 02:39:16 pm
Trump is right about Mitch and Mitch is right about Trump. Both weasels.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 22, 2021, 08:49:22 pm
Just listened to an interview withmatt schlapp. What an ignorant, arrogant peckerhead he is. No wonder he supports trump. What a joke America has become.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 22, 2021, 09:36:03 pm
It's getting better now. Trump lost and, even better, he was banned from Twitter.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 23, 2021, 06:24:06 pm
It's getting better now. Trump lost and, even better, he was banned from Twitter.
And even better-ery...

- The supreme court has declined to interfere with a New York subpoena for Trump's financial records. So, it looks like prosecutors will soon have Trump's tax returns (as well as other financial documents)

- The Manhattan DA has hired Mark Pomerantz to assist with the investigation into Trump's potential criminal activities. (Pomerantz was a former prosecutor who dealt with organized crime in the past)

Admittedly, I do have a hard time getting too excited. (We've seen these sorts of things before... "Trump is in trouble but somehow avoids punishment".) But at the very least its nice to think of Trump starting to panic.



Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on February 23, 2021, 07:14:57 pm
Admittedly, I do have a hard time getting too excited. (We've seen these sorts of things before... "Trump is in trouble but somehow avoids punishment".) But at the very least its nice to think of Trump starting to panic.
The thing that strikes me is how the filth laden secrecy that floats and protects the rich and powerful nevertheless always comes to light.  Too bad we can't somehow shorten the time in which our enlightenment occurs perhaps we'd have a chance to do something about it.

In Light of Other Days was always one of my favourite reads. I think every kid in school should be given this to read. I can't believe they made me read Ayn Rand's **** when I was a kid. I'm assuming I was supposed to be impressed or something.

Quote
When a brilliant, driven industrialist harnesses the cutting edge of quantum physics to enable people everywhere, at trivial cost, to see one another at all times: around every corner, through every wall, into everyone's most private, hidden, and even intimate moments. It amounts to the sudden and complete abolition of human privacy--forever.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/823062.The_Light_of_Other_Days
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on February 28, 2021, 03:56:16 pm
Maybe it's just me but when I hear CPAC hollering USA! USA! USA! it comes off sounding more like Kiss Trump's Ass! Kiss Trump's Ass! Kiss Trump's ASS!

It'll have to be moderates that leave the grandiosity behind and form a New Old Party I guess but I also suspect it'll still seem a little olde no matter what they do.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 28, 2021, 04:11:41 pm
Maybe it's just me but when I hear CPAC hollering USA! USA! USA!, if comes off sounding more like Kiss Trump's Ass! Kiss Trump's Ass! Kiss Trump's ASS!

Neither you nor I are in the bubble but I ask anyway: do they really think clinging to the guy who lost is the way to go ?  Given that he had no policy and things went downhill AFTER the election, and given that the new guy will benefit from Covid subsiding... it seems untenable to me.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 28, 2021, 04:37:10 pm
Neither you nor I are in the bubble but I ask anyway: do they really think clinging to the guy who lost is the way to go ?  Given that he had no policy and things went downhill AFTER the election, and given that the new guy will benefit from Covid subsiding... it seems untenable to me.

Did you happen to catch his speech today? I had other things to do so maybe I missed being able to throw "darts" at the screen as he I assume spewed out more BS.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 28, 2021, 04:45:08 pm
Did you happen to catch his speech today? I had other things to do so maybe I missed being able to throw "darts" at the screen as he I assume spewed out more BS.

No.  The texture of my media diet is less harsh without him in it, I have found.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 28, 2021, 05:12:29 pm
No.  The texture of my media diet is less harsh without him in it, I have found.

As is mine and I also welcome moving on as I hope many Americans do as well. I was just interested to see how much more pathetic he could have become but I'll catch a few of the "hi lites".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on February 28, 2021, 05:38:00 pm
Neither you nor I are in the bubble but I ask anyway: do they really think clinging to the guy who lost is the way to go ?
Except they're clinging to the guy that they think won.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 28, 2021, 06:15:05 pm
From the groups I am on almost nobody wanted to watch (this are NOT Trump groups I am talking about)

Apparently it was more of the same "I won I won" with his usual bullshit straight talk.  Such as "I won against China" which anyone can disprove by a glance at the trade deficits. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on February 28, 2021, 06:25:12 pm
No.  The texture of my media diet is less harsh without him in it, I have found.
I've found the comic relief kinda takes the edge off, in small doses of course, like watching a couple of minutes now and then of Trump's 3 Stooges on Faux. Anymore than that and my TV is at risk of me firing my bottle of beer thru it.

Mad Magazine would be a better source for anything more serious regarding where the right-wing's political mind is these days. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on February 28, 2021, 06:28:24 pm
From the groups I am on almost nobody wanted to watch (this are NOT Trump groups I am talking about)

Apparently it was more of the same "I won I won" with his usual bullshit straight talk.  Such as "I won against China" which anyone can disprove by a glance at the trade deficits.
He's also responsible for the miraculous arrival of COVID vaccines. Biden stole that limelight as well as the election.  It's so unfair.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 28, 2021, 06:30:26 pm
He's also responsible for the miraculous arrival of COVID vaccines. Biden stole that limelight as well as the election.  It's so unfair.

 :D Stop it, you're killin' me.

it's funny.. the world is still as shitty as ever and yet better  ;D
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on February 28, 2021, 06:48:05 pm
it's funny.. the world is still as shitty as ever and yet better  ;D
Yep, its always relative. It's still precipitating water outside but the forecast calls for a switch from periods of rain to a chance of showers. 👍
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 28, 2021, 08:06:13 pm
Quote
Neither you nor I are in the bubble but I ask anyway: do they really think clinging to the guy who lost is the way to go ?
Except they're clinging to the guy that they think won.
Here's the thing...

If you were talking about garden variety MAGAchud voters, you could say they were clinging to the guy that they think won.

But, you figure the people (at least most of them) attending CPAC would be smart enough to recognize that Trump lost. They may not speak out, in order to placate the MAGAchuds and keep them from rebelling from the party, but people like Lady Lindsey or Kevin McCarthy are experienced politicians, capable of at least some political analysis.  I doubt people like them would BELIEVE Trump actually won.

For the majority of republicans, the smart thing to do would be to remain silent... don't criticize Trump, but also don't go out of your way to gush over how he's the "Future of the Republicans".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on February 28, 2021, 10:06:05 pm
Except they're clinging to the guy that they think won.

Here's the thing...

If you were talking about garden variety MAGAchud voters, you could say they were clinging to the guy that they think won.

But, you figure the people (at least most of them) attending CPAC would be smart enough to recognize that Trump lost. They may not speak out, in order to placate the MAGAchuds and keep them from rebelling from the party, but people like Lady Lindsey or Kevin McCarthy are experienced politicians, capable of at least some political analysis.  I doubt people like them would BELIEVE Trump actually won.

For the majority of republicans, the smart thing to do would be to remain silent... don't criticize Trump, but also don't go out of your way to gush over how he's the "Future of the Republicans".
So support him in so many unspoken words.

Make America Gag Again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on February 28, 2021, 11:14:21 pm
Hey of course Trumpty dumpty still tries to claim the election was stolen from him. So nothing much new from his speech today, of course who is surprised by that? Hey where is that wingnut Shady who used to hang around here? I'm sure he's got some comments sensible people could enjoy over popcorn. :)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on March 02, 2021, 09:12:19 am
Hey of course Trumpty dumpty still tries to claim the election was stolen from him. So nothing much new from his speech today, of course who is surprised by that? Hey where is that wingnut Shady who used to hang around here? I'm sure he's got some comments sensible people could enjoy over popcorn. :)

Gotta go to the other place.  ;)

The GOP is in a bit of a pickle. They have to stick to the "Election was Stolen" talking point in order to avoid the MAGA wrath.

But that means they don't need any level of self reflection. Something a party that lost complete control of the Federal government in one POTUS term should probably do.

They live in their own universe where information that doesn't jive with their Worldview is wrong or a lie.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 03, 2021, 02:45:24 pm
Why the GOP can't quit Trump (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/02/why-gop-cant-quit-trump/)


Our panel study examines the characteristics of MAGA supporters, their beliefs, and what motivates them. We find that at least half of MAGA supporters tend to be White, Christian, male, over 65 years of age, retired, and earn at least $50,000 a year. Further, roughly one-third have at least a college degree. Our data suggests their commitment to Trump is unshakable, motivated by the perception of a threat to their status as the culturally dominant group.
...
Further, MAGA supporters overwhelmingly believe Trump’s election misinformation, as well as other conspiracy theories. Nearly 100 percent of MAGA supporters believe Trump’s claims that the election was stolen, and 70 percent support Trump remaining in office beyond the allowed two terms. Their distrust extends to other areas as well. They overwhelmingly agree, in proportions of 80 percent or higher, with statements suggesting that unknown elites control America and with conspiracy theories about covid-19.

MAGA supporters are also biased against Blacks, immigrants and women. They fully accept Trump’s rhetoric on these groups, downplay any obstacles faced by Black Americans, view immigration as a threat to U.S. laws and culture and agree women are seeking special favors, or worse, are trying to control men.

What explains MAGA supporters’ commitment to Trump and his conspiratorial and racist views? The answer is “status threat,” or the belief that one’s way of life or status is undermined by social and cultural change. As we’ve shown elsewhere, those who are attracted to reactionary movements like MAGA are often motivated by anxiety about possible cultural dispossession — seeing their social and cultural dominance eclipsed by other groups.[/quote]

And yet some people still think MAGA is about populist economic issues.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 03, 2021, 05:23:37 pm
I admit that I lapse into that idea also.

Who do the rust belt poor vote for then ?  Their states are solidly red.

But - yes - status threat makes sense.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on March 03, 2021, 06:03:54 pm

Who do the rust belt poor vote for then ?  Their states are solidly red.


They are?

MI, WI, PA voted Dem for pres.

The other 4 states went to Trump.

So, not quite. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 03, 2021, 06:31:47 pm
They are?

MI, WI, PA voted Dem for pres.

The other 4 states went to Trump.

So, not quite.

ya they are mostly swing states in the rust belt.  Working class, not coastal progressives or southern/rural hillbillies.  Steel industry and car industry folks, gotta feel bad for them no matter who is in office.

Michigan went Obama, then went red for Trump, then flipped for Biden.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 03, 2021, 08:57:53 pm
I admit that I lapse into that idea also.

Who do the rust belt poor vote for then ? Their states are solidly red.

But - yes - status threat makes sense.

Well, there's a lot of things to unpack here.

Poor people and minorities (who are often the same) don't vote as much as wealthier people. Gerrymandering to give an outsized voice to rural and exurban (and more well off and white) people is also a factor. So right away there's problems with the "poor people vote Republican" narrative.

As I've said before, it's not that there are not people who were brought in by Trump's populist messaging, but we're talking about what group(s) are the driving force behind this movement and again and again the evidence points to well-off, older whites who basically hate poor people/minorities/women/gays/immigrants. You know: a$$holes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 04, 2021, 05:52:05 am
They are?

MI, WI, PA voted Dem for pres.

The other 4 states went to Trump.

So, not quite.

You are very correct.  "Rust belt" means something specific and they are not RED states.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 05, 2021, 07:26:43 am
Why the GOP can't quit Trump (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/02/why-gop-cant-quit-trump/)
Interesting research, so I wanted to delve deeper. It's a panel study so it followed the same people over time. Their data collection  methods are really interesting too. Check it out:

https://sites.uw.edu/magastudy/methodology/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 05, 2021, 07:59:38 am
Interesting research, so I wanted to delve deeper. It's a panel study so it followed the same people over time. Their data collection  methods are really interesting too. Check it out:

https://sites.uw.edu/magastudy/methodology/

Very interesting - using Facebook as a way to sample MAGAs is counter-intuitive but there indeed may be more Facebook users than landline owners.  I will look at some of the findings.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 05, 2021, 09:10:13 am
Very interesting - using Facebook as a way to sample MAGAs is counter-intuitive but there indeed may be more Facebook users than landline owners.  I will look at some of the findings.
Here's the trouble...how do you determine that a landline owner is a MAGA supporter? They could just deny it because they're distrustful. The creative thing with Facebook is that they can select out just those who've interacted with MAGA-related pages then narrow it down further by using political-affiliation and active voting as their criteria to weed out those doing opposition research or whatever. Facebook allowed the researchers to actively engage with people based on their interests, rather than relying on them to answer truthfully about them. Their activities and interests are documented online. That's wild.

It's also incredibly dangerous the amount of information available on people. Imagine how nefarious actors can use this. We've already seen it with the Russian targeted psyops. It's a brave new world, my man.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 05, 2021, 10:08:05 am
1. Here's the trouble...how do you determine that a landline owner is a MAGA supporter? They could just deny it because they're distrustful.

2. The creative thing with Facebook is that they can select out just those who've interacted with MAGA-related pages then narrow it down further by using political-affiliation and active voting as their criteria to weed out those doing opposition research or whatever. Facebook allowed the researchers to actively engage with people based on their interests, rather than relying on them to answer truthfully about them. Their activities and interests are documented online. That's wild.

3. It's also incredibly dangerous the amount of information available on people. Imagine how nefarious actors can use this. We've already seen it with the Russian targeted psyops. It's a brave new world, my man.

1.  You ask.  And - yes - they hang up on you because they don't trust you.  The loooong puzzle of that was answered definitively in the final podcast of Five Thirty Eight's "model talk".  Nate Silver seemingly begrudgingly acknowledged that MAGAs are ghosts - poll-wise.
2. It is both wild and yet obvious.  I have to really think about it - I guess it means you can use it to poll "TRUE" MAGAs but not for a random sample of the populace.
3. Well... read McLuhan I guess. 

Four questions.

What does the medium enhance?
What does the medium make obsolete?
What does the medium retrieve that had been obsolesced earlier?
What does the medium reverse or flip into when pushed to extremes?

Are you interested in a thread where we explore these with regards to Facebook ?  I will start one.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 05, 2021, 10:29:19 am
Very interesting - using Facebook as a way to sample MAGAs is counter-intuitive but there indeed may be more Facebook users than landline owners.  I will look at some of the findings.

How do you figure? I don't think you'd have MAGA without Facebook.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 05, 2021, 12:30:39 pm
How do you figure? I don't think you'd have MAGA without Facebook.

Your point is spot-on but I happened to take a rigorous Stats course for survey design - for mathematicians, not social scientists - in university.  The idea of 'random sampling' was seen then as a problem of yesteryear thanks to the amazing technology of the phone. ie. landline

From a survey design perspective, it's weird to think of a software product as a potential source for a sample but ... yeah it makes total sense.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 05, 2021, 12:33:02 pm
MH,

That's the thing--the study wasn't about the general populace. It was trying to understand a very specific population: MAGA Supporters. Researchers sometimes struggle with ways to gain access to populations in order to study them. The fact that MAGA Supporters footprints could be sniffed out of Facebook and the way these researchers did it was pretty interesting.

I have some experience with using Facebook Ads to find research populations and it never ceases to amaze me how much information people leave about themselves.

Granted there are certain limitations to all of this. For instance, you'll miss some people because not all MAGA folks have Facebook. However, if the people missed are randomly distributed and don't share any particular qualities that are related to the reason they're missing from Facebook then it's easily controlled for in their sampling (see for example how they had to oversample for women). The stuff they presented in this study, however, is all just descriptive statistics of the sample they created from Facebook. Interesting enough. Does it speak for ALL MAGA supporters? Seems likely unless you can come up with a compelling reason to believe that those excluded would have such radically different opinions that it would change these descriptives.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 05, 2021, 01:13:13 pm

1. That's the thing--the study wasn't about the general populace. It was trying to understand a very specific population: MAGA Supporters. Researchers sometimes struggle with ways to gain access to populations in order to study them. The fact that MAGA Supporters footprints could be sniffed out of Facebook and the way these researchers did it was pretty interesting.

2. I have some experience with using Facebook Ads to find research populations and it never ceases to amaze me how much information people leave about themselves.

 

1. I get that... it's strange though...  you could conceivably use it to get a random sample if, say, you polled people from Fredricton via their profile also.  Just a simple mind shift.

2. I leave everything.  I feel like privacy is exploited by those in power sometimes.  Like salaries...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 05, 2021, 01:33:18 pm
1. I get that... it's strange though...  you could conceivably use it to get a random sample if, say, you polled people from Fredricton via their profile also.  Just a simple mind shift.

2. I leave everything.  I feel like privacy is exploited by those in power sometimes.  Like salaries...
Oh, I see what you're saying in the first point now. These Facebook samples aren't exactly random. That's why I was mentioning the selection bias thing (do the missing people have characteristics in common). However, they're pretty great at getting a targeted sample.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 05, 2021, 01:43:46 pm
I think in general it may be hard to reach some MAGA supporters because I would assume some of the less **** ones don't use much technology.  Somebody's racist grampa probably isn't on facebook.  Mpst of my older conservative small-town relatives aren't on social media.  I think this may be a problem in political polling in general.  Younger more liberal types I assume are more connected, more often have a smartphone on them.

Most of the young Trumpsters who stormed the capital were young men.  I assume these are the types that patrol 4chan.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: cybercoma on March 05, 2021, 01:48:23 pm
I think in general it may be hard to reach some MAGA supporters because I would assume some of the less **** ones don't use much technology.  Somebody's racist grampa probably isn't on facebook.  Mpst of my older conservative small-town relatives aren't on social media.  I think this may be a problem in political polling in general.  Younger more liberal types I assume are more connected, more often have a smartphone on them.

Most of the young Trumpsters who stormed the capital were young men.  I assume these are the types that patrol 4chan.
You're right, but the sample that the did get already showed that the average supporter was white, Christian, and over 65. So adding those people in would just re-affirm the results or skew it even more that way, meaning it's under-estimating how old, white, rural, and Christian they are.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 05, 2021, 01:49:52 pm
I think in general it may be hard to reach some MAGA supporters because I would assume some of the less **** ones don't use much technology. Somebody's racist grampa probably isn't on facebook. Mpst of my older conservative small-town relatives aren't on social media.  I think this may be a problem in political polling in general.  Younger more liberal types I assume are more connected, more often have a smartphone on them.

Yes they are.

Quote
Most of the young Trumpsters who stormed the capital were young men.  I assume these are the types that patrol 4chan.

Wrong (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/02/the-capitol-rioters-arent-like-other-extremists/617895/).

"The average age of the arrestees we studied is 40. Two-thirds are 35 or older, and 40 percent are business owners or hold white-collar jobs."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 08, 2021, 11:42:19 am
SCOTUS bins the last of Trumps lawsuits. 0 for 64.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ussc-trump-election-1.5940794
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 08, 2021, 11:57:03 am
SCOTUS bins the last of Trumps lawsuits. 0 for 64.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ussc-trump-election-1.5940794

I'm guessing the idiot will have similar luck with the various lawsuits/criminal charges he's due to deal with.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on March 08, 2021, 12:57:38 pm
SCOTUS bins the last of Trumps lawsuits. 0 for 64.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ussc-trump-election-1.5940794

Trump being the petty vindictive sore loser that he is, I was hoping he'd demand a refund on his SCOTUS nominations and start sabotaging them.  Bummer it didn't pan out.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 20, 2021, 07:18:26 am
Heeeeey... today was the latest Qanon prediction of a Trump re-emergence...  :D

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 20, 2021, 07:58:07 am
Heeeeey... today was the latest Qanon prediction of a Trump re-emergence...  :D
I honestly feel bad for sharkman.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 20, 2021, 04:24:10 pm
Did he believe this stuff??? ???
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 20, 2021, 05:38:23 pm
Are QAnon people extremely unintelligent or extremely insane?  I can't tell which.  Maybe both.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 20, 2021, 07:10:09 pm
Are QAnon people extremely unintelligent or extremely insane?  I can't tell which.  Maybe both.

Based on what I've heard from them you'd be correct in concluding both.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 20, 2021, 08:43:57 pm
Did he believe this stuff??? ???
He resurfaced just to spout some QAnon predictions, made a $100 bet with someone on MLW they would come true, lost, claimed to make payment, and then disappeared again. It was kind of sad.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 25, 2021, 11:38:00 am
Heeeeey... today was the latest Qanon prediction of a Trump re-emergence...  :D
Well, he is trying to get back on social media.... sort of...

From: https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/21/media/donald-trump-social-media-network/index.html
Jason Miller, a long-time adviser and spokesperson for Trump's 2020 campaign told Howard Kurtz on Fox's "MediaBuzz" that Trump will be "returning to social media in probably about two or three months." He added Trump's return will be with "his own platform" that will attract "tens of millions" of new users and "completely redefine the game."...Miller said during his appearance on Fox News that the former president has been approached by numerous companies and is in talks with teams about the new platform.

Pretty much textbook Trumpism... vague statements (e.g. about timeframes and the 'numerous companies'), excessive boasting about how popular he thinks it will be.

Because nothing says "success in technology" like being associated with an incompetent and corrupt businessman with a long string of business failures behind him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on March 28, 2021, 09:00:09 pm
It's time to start ignoring him. 

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on March 28, 2021, 10:15:45 pm
It's time to start ignoring him. 

 -k

Trouble seems to be though that ignoring him is similar to ignoring a mosquitoe landing on your arm. We need to continue to swat such annoyances.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 04, 2021, 11:59:46 pm
Poor old Donny, still trying to flog the big lie theory as to how he lost the election. Unfortunately there seem to be a large number of dimwits in that country that buy his bullshit. tsk, tsk!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on May 05, 2021, 10:59:57 am
Poor old Donny, still trying to flog the big lie theory as to how he lost the election. Unfortunately there seem to be a large number of dimwits in that country that buy his bullshit. tsk, tsk!

Including almost every GOP member in the House. (https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/liz-cheney-trump-mccarthy-triangle-proves-republican-party-nowhere-near-ncna1266343)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 05, 2021, 11:28:17 pm
Just wondering who out there is still stupid enough to stay in support of Dumb donny.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 13, 2021, 08:44:11 pm
As people here probably already know, as part of the "big lie" that Stubby McBonespurs is promoting, there is currently a "Recount/Audit" of ballots cast in Arizona, which Trump thinks will find fraud among thousands of ballots. (This is despite Arizona already performing multiple recounts/audits.)

So what are the problems with this audit?

- It is being performed by a company called Cyber Ninjas, who have never done any sort of auditing work before. However, the owners of Cyber Ninjas are Trump supporters. (And much of the funding for it comes from pro-Trump sources)

- Initially, Cyber Ninjas was not going to publish anything about its procedures, until the courts stepped in and forced them to.

- The auditors were initially using blue pens. The problem is, Arizona's vote counting machines can read both blue and black ink, so during recounts, workers are supposed to use red or green pens. (Otherwise, any marks they make on the ballot would have ruined its integrity.) They only switched pens after a reporter pointed out their mistake.

- One of the people they had counting votes was a republican politician (Anthony Kern) who actually present in Washington during the January terrorist activity. (He is actually handling ballots that have his own name on them)

- Among the things the workers are doing is using UV light to examine ballots (supposedly looking for a magic water mark), and examining the paper for traces of bamboo (which would somehow indicate the paper came from China, which would be evidence of fraud somehow)

- The counting was supposed by done by mid-May, but at the rate they are going, it will take months to complete. (However, the space they are using is booked to hold high school graduations soon. So they will have to suspend their count or find somewhere else to work)

See: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/05/arizonas-election-audit-is-a-trainwreck/618834/

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on May 26, 2021, 08:18:26 am
It's Happening!!!!

Grand Jury convenes to see if they should indict DT.  :)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: queenmandy85 on May 26, 2021, 04:07:25 pm
Many Americans are hoping President Trump will run for President in 2024. Some are hoping he will run for congress in 2022. The Governor of Florida has stated he will not allow President Trump to be extradited to face charges in another state. It should be interesting to see how he can campaign for President if he can't step out of Florida. If he were elected to Congress, he could be arrested as soon as he touches down in DC. Interesting times.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on May 26, 2021, 04:48:01 pm
Many Americans are hoping President Trump will run for President in 2024. Some are hoping he will run for congress in 2022. The Governor of Florida has stated he will not allow President Trump to be extradited to face charges in another state. It should be interesting to see how he can campaign for President if he can't step out of Florida. If he were elected to Congress, he could be arrested as soon as he touches down in DC. Interesting times.

I have found all what you have just discussed intriguing. I suspect Trump is a criminal and seeing him led away in hand cuffs would help me rejuvenate my respect for America. If he's allowed to run again I will be posting connections to his interview where he says he gets to "grab women by the **** because they think I'm a star"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Boges on May 27, 2021, 09:55:31 am
Many Americans are hoping President Trump will run for President in 2024. Some are hoping he will run for congress in 2022. The Governor of Florida has stated he will not allow President Trump to be extradited to face charges in another state. It should be interesting to see how he can campaign for President if he can't step out of Florida. If he were elected to Congress, he could be arrested as soon as he touches down in DC. Interesting times.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/19/donald-trump-new-jersey-golf-club-summer

It would be funny if he fled to Florida once the indictment happens and could only go to states with Governors that support him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 27, 2021, 10:22:09 am
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/19/donald-trump-new-jersey-golf-club-summer

It would be funny if he fled to Florida once the indictment happens and could only go to states with Governors that support him.

And had to stay out of federally-managed airspace.  ;)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on May 27, 2021, 11:04:46 am
All airspace is federally managed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 27, 2021, 11:35:02 am
A governor can’t protect a person from federal arrest.  They don’t have those powers.

https://www.businessinsider.com/desantis-cant-stop-trump-extradition-to-ny-if-indicted-prosecutor-2021-5
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 31, 2021, 08:09:16 pm
It's Happening!!!!

Grand Jury convenes to see if they should indict DT.  :)
I hope they do indict Stubby McBonespurs. I think there is plenty of evidence that he has broken at least some laws (and that's just from what's known publically... who knows what has been uncovered by investigators working behind the scenes.) And unlike some potential defendants, he has no redeeming qualities.

However, we need to remember that grand juries take a long time to examine the evidence and pass down indictments. It could be months before we see any action. And, their activities are done in private, so we don't even know for sure if Trump is the primary target. (In theory we could see indictments against others in the Trump klan, such as Trump Jr. or Ivanka, but they might not bring indictments against Trump if they don't have the required evidence.)

Anyone interested might want to listen to the Legal Eagle youtube channel (I've mentioned it before in this forum). One of his recent postings discusses the NY Grand jury, what's involved, and what the results might be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY9zwClkQc0
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 31, 2021, 08:10:53 pm
I've been reading on it also.  Seems like something is there but the scope of the case probably says that he'll be dead before anythig is resolved.  Like his hero Roy Cohn, he will leave a giant mess when he dies and his kids will be sorting it out forever.

And, worse, he will remain a hero to people who don't have a clue.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 01, 2021, 09:34:10 am
I've been reading on it also.  Seems like something is there but the scope of the case probably says that he'll be dead before anythig is resolved.  Like his hero Roy Cohn, he will leave a giant mess when he dies and his kids will be sorting it out forever.
Your pessimism is warranted... legal cases can often take a long time to resolve, and there are certain delaying tactics/appeals that can be applied. And, Trump doesn't exactly lead a very healthy lifestyle.

On the other hand, Trump does have decent health care available to him (which might keep him alive long enough to face actual prison time). And even if he dies before he sees the inside of a cell, seeing him tied up in the court system for years will provide a certain amount of satisfaction.

Plus, that 'giant mess' he leaves when he dies could end up seeing Trump Jr., Eric and Ivanka jailed as well (who are likely engaged in criminal activity as well).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2021, 11:41:06 pm
Just finished watching the first half hour of 'Trumps Insurrection" I'm having trouble curbing the flow of curse words flowing through my head and into my mouth. Anybody else want to comment on this pig **** ****?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 21, 2021, 05:42:06 am
Comfort yourself.

This seems to be going in to a long decline...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 21, 2021, 09:18:22 am
MH, long decline? The Trump 'revenge tour' is set to begin in Cleveland on June 26... against Republicans who spurned him during his bigLie dramady!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 21, 2021, 09:21:23 am
MH, long decline? The Trump 'revenge tour' is set to begin in Cleveland on June 26... against Republicans who spurned him during his bigLie dramady!

A garish display... which will surely reveal the fading aura of the Donald on multiple fronts !
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 29, 2021, 09:51:33 am
MH, long decline? The Trump 'revenge tour' is set to begin in Cleveland on June 26... against Republicans who spurned him during his bigLie dramady!
Yes, he still has his adoring MAGAchud fans.

But then, not everyone was happy with his 'performance'...

From: https://www.rawstory.com/donald-trump-ohio-rally/
Dozens of people walked out of a rally in Ohio over the weekend as former President Donald Trump was speaking...."Mr. Trump's speech — low-key, digressive and nearly 90 minutes long — fell flat at times with an otherwise adoring audience," the report added. "Scores of people left early as he bounced from topic to topic — immigration, Israel, Speaker Nancy Pelosi's protective mask."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 29, 2021, 10:12:35 am
"wake me up for the frogwalk" as they say
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 29, 2021, 05:39:27 pm
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/06/documents-show-ivanka-trump-didnt-testify-accurately-in-inauguration-scandal-case/

Quote
During a December 1 deposition—in which she swore to tell the truth—Ivanka Trump, the eldest daughter of Donald Trump who was an executive at the Trump Organization before becoming a White House adviser to her father, was asked if she had any “involvement in the process of planning the inauguration.” She replied, “I really didn’t have an involvement.” Ivanka testified that if her “opinion was solicited” regarding an inauguration event, she “would give feedback to my father or to anyone who asked my perspective or opinion.” And that was as far as her participation went.

But this wasn’t accurate, according to the documents, which indicate she was part of the decision-making for various aspects of the inauguration, including even the menus for events.

Lying under oath can get you thrown in the slammer.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 29, 2021, 06:50:43 pm
I look so forward to the day they slap the cuffs ondonny boy and lead  him to the cell where he belongs. His days of grabbing women by the **** "because I'm a star" will be over.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on June 29, 2021, 07:40:58 pm
I look so forward to the day they slap the cuffs ondonny boy and lead  him to the cell where he belongs. His days of grabbing women by the **** "because I'm a star" will be over.

I hope I'm wrong on this but I don't think anything will happen to him.  He got away with so much, I will believe it when I see it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 29, 2021, 10:16:03 pm
I hope I'm wrong on this but I don't think anything will happen to him.  He got away with so much, I will believe it when I see it.
There are certainly reasons to be pessimistic... there is not a good track record of dealing with white collar crimes, and Trump has managed to openly flout many norms with no repercussions.

But, there is at least some reasons for hope... sometimes white collar crimes DO get prosecuted (for example, Manfort went to prison, and Stone was convicted). And many of the protections Trump had in the past (rules against indicting a sitting president, a friendly DOJ and senate preventing legal challenges, and before he was elected a lack of scrutiny) no longer apply.  And Trump has lost legal cases in the recent past (e.g. Trump university), so he's not invulnerable.

The main roadblocks in seeing Trump face actual justice are 1) the chance he might die from a cheezeburger-induced heart attack before going to trial, and 2) a desire by politicians (even democrats) to "protect" him because they wrongly think a conviction of a past president would harm the reputation of the office.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on June 30, 2021, 04:59:33 pm
I hope I'm wrong on this but I don't think anything will happen to him.  He got away with so much, I will believe it when I see it.

I'm keeping fingers crossed as I wait for tomorrow although apparently charges aren'yt likely to be leveled at trumpty dumpty but at his CFO.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 30, 2021, 11:01:31 pm
I'm keeping fingers crossed as I wait for tomorrow although apparently charges aren'yt likely to be leveled at trumpty dumpty but at his CFO.
Well, the charges on Thursday may only target the Trump Organization (as a business) and CFO Weisselberg. But, there is a very good chance that the prosecutors will use those indictments as leverage for further charges against others (including, I hope, Trump.)

Remember, the grand jury is scheduled to run for several more months after this, you have to expect that the prosecutors in charge expect more than just a few early charges.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 01, 2021, 03:05:20 pm
Well, the charges on Thursday may only target the Trump Organization (as a business) and CFO Weisselberg. But, there is a very good chance that the prosecutors will use those indictments as leverage for further charges against others (including, I hope, Trump.)

Remember, the grand jury is scheduled to run for several more months after this, you have to expect that the prosecutors in charge expect more than just a few early charges.

Agreed. If I was Trump I would be worried. He could face jail time from what I'm hearing. His CFO could face potentially 105 years over 15 counts of fraud etc. Looks like the former White House is crashing down. Qu'ell surprise!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 01, 2021, 03:11:50 pm
Agreed. If I was Trump I would be worried. He could face jail time from what I'm hearing. His CFO could face potentially 105 years over 15 counts of fraud etc. Looks like the former White House is crashing down. Qu'ell surprise!

Where are you seeing 105 years ?  I haven't see this.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 01, 2021, 03:19:40 pm
Where are you seeing 105 years ?  I haven't see this.

15 felony counts each of which could carry a 7 year sentence. Unlikely it will come to that but he's no spring chicken so we will see if he flips on his former boss to seek a way out.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 01, 2021, 03:34:16 pm
15 felony counts each of which could carry a 7 year sentence. Unlikely it will come to that but he's no spring chicken so we will see if he flips on his former boss to seek a way out.

It feel like he willing to take the hit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 01, 2021, 03:44:25 pm
Okay the chatter I saw was 4 to 5 years, all charges served concurrently
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on July 01, 2021, 04:30:49 pm
Okay the chatter I saw was 4 to 5 years, all charges served concurrently

I just want to see donny led to the squad car in handcuffs one time. I don't care how long he serves, but his stupid arrogance would take a hit by that it certainly deserves. He admits to being a criminal after all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 01, 2021, 05:40:10 pm
I just want to see donny led to the squad car in handcuffs one time. I don't care how long he serves, but his stupid arrogance would take a hit by that it certainly deserves. He admits to being a criminal after all.

I feel ya.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 01, 2021, 08:48:04 pm
15 felony counts each of which could carry a 7 year sentence. Unlikely it will come to that but he's no spring chicken so we will see if he flips on his former boss to seek a way out.

He hasn't been charged personally as far as I know, its the Trump org.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on July 07, 2021, 11:20:53 pm
The MyPillow Guy, Mike Lindell, declares that they have proof that the election was rigged using "packet capture" technology. The proof will be unveiled at an upcoming "cyber symposium"!

https://www.rawstory.com/mike-lindell-my-pillow-2653492411/

MyPillow Guy Mike Lindell has declared that Donald Trump will be reinstated as POTUS on August 13!

https://www.businessinsider.com/mike-lindell-claims-august-13-trump-reinstatement-2021-7

MyPillow Guy Mike Lindell poses with Michael Flynn and others in front of a whiteboard that looks like it was extracted straight from the mind of a schizophrenic person.

https://www.rawstory.com/mike-lindell-whiteboard-analysis/

(https://i.imgur.com/7q7jA97.png)

The whiteboard:

(https://i.imgur.com/6ajS3C8.jpg)


The only rational response:

(https://i.imgur.com/bL92FOg.png)


 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 08, 2021, 05:09:45 am
All of the people who believe this, and there are a lot, are still out there.  They're being quiet about it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on July 19, 2021, 08:32:22 pm
waldo, is there a problem?

(https://i.imgur.com/vyR6T71.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 21, 2021, 01:57:43 am
Okay the chatter I saw was 4 to 5 years, all charges served concurrently
I think the difference is the maximum possible time he could be sentenced to (i.e. if he got the maximum for everything, and all sentences were served consecutively) vs. what is likely (based on general sentencing guidelines, as well as precedents from similar cases.)

I doubt he would receive a decades-long sentence. (There would have to be extenuating circumstances for him to get the maximum... previous criminal history, higher amounts of fraud, etc.) The 4-5 years is more likely.

I think morally he deserves a much longer sentence. (He's been involved with the Trump organization for a long time, and they've likely done a LOT of illegal activity in that time.) But, he is currently only charged with a limited number of crimes, so legally he won't be facing a lengthy sentence. (My main concern is that even if he does get sentenced to 4-5 years, they'll release him early because of his age, or because of prison overcrowding, or whatever.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 19, 2021, 11:52:10 am
Trump's eulogy to Colin Powell:

""Wonderful to see Colin Powell, who made big mistakes on Iraq and famously, so-called weapons of mass destruction, be treated in death so beautifully by the Fake News Media," Trump said in a statement released Tuesday morning. "Hope that happens to me someday. He was a classic RINO, if even that, always being the first to attack other Republicans. He made plenty of mistakes, but anyway, may he rest in peace!""
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on October 19, 2021, 12:30:58 pm
Trump's eulogy to Colin Powell:

""Wonderful to see Colin Powell, who made big mistakes on Iraq and famously, so-called weapons of mass destruction, be treated in death so beautifully by the Fake News Media,"
The irony in this statement from someone who is probably the biggest beneficiary of fake news on the planet towards another man who did so much to give fake news the respectability it has in the world is staggering.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Omni on November 23, 2021, 02:31:45 pm
Trump says something stupid on a regular basis. But it seems the republicans still suck it up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 24, 2021, 08:07:53 pm
Trump was supreme low-class.  But he also wasn't really wrong about Powell.

On the other hand, i don't really blame Powell for just following orders from his Commander-in-Chief, as a military guy who was trained to follow orders.  I don't think Rumsfeld or Cheney will get that kind of sendoff from the media.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 27, 2021, 03:11:13 pm
Capitalism says Donald Trump's new media company is worth $10B

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2021/11/17/trumps-new-social-media-business-is-worth-an-estimated-10-billion/?sh=4dec9cc0386b&utm_campaign=socialflowForbesMainTwitter&utm_source=ForbesMainTwitter&utm_medium=social
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 02, 2021, 07:50:07 am
How to kiss your $ goodbye 101

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 28, 2022, 07:06:02 pm
Pennsylvania Supreme Court rules that the changes made to voting in the 2020 presidential election were unconstitutional.  For the record, Biden won states illegally to win the presidency.  That’s a fact now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/01/28/pennsylvania-mail-voting-courts/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 28, 2022, 11:01:44 pm
Pennsylvania Supreme Court rules that the changes made to voting in the 2020 presidential election were unconstitutional.  For the record, Biden won states illegally to win the presidency.  That’s a fact now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/01/28/pennsylvania-mail-voting-courts/

member Shady facts... aren't! It was a lower court - NOT the state Supreme Court... the ruling will be appealed to the state Supreme Court. More pointedly, how are you extending this single state ruling to other states? Most pointedly, it was a Republican controlled state legislature that passed the law in the first place. And by the by, at the time of the election, the legal law was in effect. Get a grip, hey member Shady!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 29, 2022, 12:23:17 am
Pennsylvania Supreme Court rules that the changes made to voting in the 2020 presidential election were unconstitutional.
Except of course as Waldo pointed out, it wasn't the Supreme court. It was an appeal court. (And one with a republican majority.) There is still a good chance that the law will be accepted by the state Supreme court.

From: https://apnews.com/article/pennsylvania-voting-donald-trump-tom-wolf-31b4e7d0b16a996c63079c8aa3c3b121
Raff Donelson, an associate professor of law at Penn State’s Dickinson Law School who teaches constitutional law, said he disagreed on a couple points with the majority opinion. One point...is that it doesn’t make sense to read the constitution as restricting the right to cast an absentee ballot. On voting matters, that’s not how the constitution typically works...Besides, the constitution seems to bluntly give lawmakers the power to prescribe voting by any method, and that cannot be negated by another provision in the constitution, he said.


Now, that is only a legal opinion, but it is from someone who should (in theory) be familiar with constitutional law.

Quote
For the record, Biden won states illegally to win the presidency.  That’s a fact now.
Except of course his win was quite legal.

The law in question is for future votes. Republicans tried to fight the 2020 election results and failed. The supreme court (which is dominated by republicans) didn't even bother to listen to the challenge, a pretty good indicator that the challenge to the election results held no merrit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 29, 2022, 01:44:52 pm
Pennsylvania Supreme Court rules that the changes made to voting in the 2020 presidential election were unconstitutional.  For the record, Biden won states illegally to win the presidency.  That’s a fact now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/01/28/pennsylvania-mail-voting-courts/

Quote
The state’s Republican-controlled legislature passed the law establishing no-excuse mail-in voting for all voters in 2019 with bipartisan support. Previously, Pennsylvania voters could cast absentee ballots if they met certain criteria.

R's posting their Ls.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 04, 2022, 03:07:27 pm
Anti-Trump favourite Michael Avenatti found guilty of fraud. 
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/verdict-reached-michael-avenatti-case/story%3fid=82650447

Be careful who you anti-Trumpers hold up as hero’s, just because of how anti-Trump they can be.  Especially those of you who post from the grifter child molester group the Lincoln Project.  Bubber got hoodwinked into both of them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 04, 2022, 03:17:57 pm
I would like to report that the lefties LOVED this guy at first and I was like .... hmmmm .... like Scaramouchi seems like a publicity-sucker looking for victims ...

I don't care about him but maybe a bit glad he went down
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 04, 2022, 03:50:39 pm
Anti-Trump favourite Michael Avenatti found guilty of fraud. 
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/verdict-reached-michael-avenatti-case/story%3fid=82650447

Be careful who you anti-Trumpers hold up as hero’s, just because of how anti-Trump they can be.  Especially those of you who post from the grifter child molester group the Lincoln Project.  Bubber got hoodwinked into both of them.
You have me confused with Stormy Daniels. I never let Trump rim me.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 04, 2022, 03:53:19 pm
I would like to report that the lefties LOVED this guy at first and I was like .... hmmmm .... like Scaramouchi seems like a publicity-sucker looking for victims ...

I don't care about him but maybe a bit glad he went down
I think that speaks volumes about the quality and integrity of those on the  of left-vs-right.

Avenatti had a brief amount of publicity for a while, but once some of the more distasteful facts became apparent, he was abandoned. Nobody on the left really defends him anymore. And Biden has shown no interest in issuing a pardon.

On the other hand, look at Stubby McBonespurs and his merry Klan.... More and more, we see evidence of Trump's Crimes revealed. We had a whole mess of Trump associates actually convicted of various crimes (i.e. sentenced to jail, before they were pardoned)... Manafort, Stone, Bannon, Flynn.  All sentenced to jail. All pardoned by Trump. All of them remain attached in some way to the republicans post-conviction.

Yet the MAGAchud think that somehow Avanatti is more of a scandal than the multiple Trump associates who were sentenced to jail and pardoned by a racist con-artist who is facing significant legal issues himself.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 04, 2022, 04:07:15 pm
It's a weak, impotent projection that only seems relevant if you're not very smart to begin with.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 04, 2022, 04:23:24 pm
I think that speaks volumes about the quality and integrity of those on the  of left-vs-right.

Avenatti had a brief amount of publicity for a while, but once some of the more distasteful facts became apparent, he was abandoned. Nobody on the left really defends him anymore. And Biden has shown no interest in issuing a pardon.

On the other hand, look at Stubby McBonespurs and his merry Klan.... More and more, we see evidence of Trump's Crimes revealed. We had a whole mess of Trump associates actually convicted of various crimes (i.e. sentenced to jail, before they were pardoned)... Manafort, Stone, Bannon, Flynn.  All sentenced to jail. All pardoned by Trump. All of them remain attached in some way to the republicans post-conviction.

Yet the MAGAchud think that somehow Avanatti is more of a scandal than the multiple Trump associates who were sentenced to jail and pardoned by a racist con-artist who is facing significant legal issues himself.
All process crimes with no other underlying crime.  That’s why they were pardoned.  The FBI falsified evidence to obtain FISA warrants and never even told Flynn the real reason they were interviewing him.  Defending this kind of behaviour is defending police state tactics.  You’re better than this.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 04, 2022, 04:24:44 pm
You have me confused with Stormy Daniels. I never let Trump rim me.
What two consenting adults do on their own time used to be irrelevant from progressives.  Now they’re puritanical for some reason.  They’re worse than the religious right now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 04, 2022, 04:25:34 pm
I would like to report that the lefties LOVED this guy at first and I was like .... hmmmm .... like Scaramouchi seems like a publicity-sucker looking for victims ...

I don't care about him but maybe a bit glad he went down
It’s true that MH is the only one that’s been consistent from the beginning.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Dia on February 04, 2022, 06:17:54 pm
1.  All process crimes with no other underlying crime. 

2.  That’s why they were pardoned. 

3.  The FBI falsified evidence to obtain FISA warrants and

4.  never even told Flynn the real reason they were interviewing him. 

5.  Defending this kind of behaviour is defending police state tactics.  You’re better than this.

1. A "process" crime is still a crime;

2. They were pardoned because Trump is corrupt;

3. This is what conspiratards claim, anyway;

4. Common, the cops of any stripe don't have to tell the truth to suspects in their crime-fighting pursuits;

5. Says the guy who's nose is so far up Trump's rump he can smell the cheeseburger in Trump's esophagus.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 04, 2022, 06:19:42 pm
Quote
I think that speaks volumes about the quality and integrity of those on the  of left-vs-right.

Avenatti had a brief amount of publicity for a while, but once some of the more distasteful facts became apparent, he was abandoned. Nobody on the left really defends him anymore. And Biden has shown no interest in issuing a pardon.

On the other hand, look at Stubby McBonespurs and his merry Klan.... More and more, we see evidence of Trump's Crimes revealed. We had a whole mess of Trump associates actually convicted of various crimes (i.e. sentenced to jail, before they were pardoned)... Manafort, Stone, Bannon, Flynn.  All sentenced to jail. All pardoned by Trump. All of them remain attached in some way to the republicans post-conviction.

Yet the MAGAchud think that somehow Avanatti is more of a scandal than the multiple Trump associates who were sentenced to jail and pardoned by a racist con-artist who is facing significant legal issues himself.
All process crimes with no other underlying crime.
Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Manafort#Indictments_and_charges
...both Manafort and Gates were further charged with additional crimes involving a tax avoidance scheme and bank fraud... Gates pleaded guilty in federal court to lying to investigators and engaging in a conspiracy to defraud the United States.... Manafort entered into a plea deal with prosecutors and pleaded guilty to two charges: conspiracy to defraud the United States and witness tampering.


Pssssttt... in case you didn't know, Fraud is not a 'process crime'.

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Bannon
...a federal grand jury indictment was unsealed against Bannon and three others, charging them with conspiracy to commit wire fraud and money laundering... Bannon and the three other men conspired to use a non-profit group run by Bannon, and a shell company controlled by one of the other defendants, to make payments to themselves, despite promises to donors that their contributions would go to build a wall.

Fraud... not a process crime.

I always find it amazing how the MAGAchud chalk this up to "process crimes"... because process crimes are still crimes.

Then of course you have Stone's conviction for witness tampering. Which is not just a simple "I lied", but a "I threatened other people".

As for Flynn... while his conviction involved him lying, you also have this:

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Flynn#Investigations_after_leaving_the_Trump_administration
The Pentagon inspector general was also investigating whether Flynn accepted money from foreign governments without the required approval.... Robert Mueller had enough evidence for charges against Flynn and his son, Michael G. Flynn. On November 10, The Wall Street Journal reported that Flynn was under investigation by Mueller for allegedly planning a kidnapping and extrajudicial rendition of Turkish cleric Fethullah Gülen...

Hmmm... accepting money from foreign sources. Not exactly a process crime, is it.
Quote
That’s why they were pardoned.  The FBI falsified evidence to obtain FISA warrants...
Ah yes, the fantasy of the "falsified FISA warrants".

Never mind the fact that most of the evidence against the Trump Klan came from other sources (such as papadopoulos shooting his mouth off. Or the charges against Bannon, that had nothing to do with FISA warrants (or even the Russia investigation).  Or the fact that the fraud charges against Manafort were uncovered not by FISA warrants but by other means.
Quote
and never even told Flynn the real reason they were interviewing him.
Why is that relevant?

I mean, you're interviewing them. He's supposed to be answering honestly. So why dos it matter if they give the "real reason"? Stupid, stupid argument.

I'd say you're better than this, but then I'd be lying.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on February 04, 2022, 07:03:00 pm
On the other hand, look at Stubby McBonespurs and his merry Klan.... More and more, we see evidence of Trump's Crimes revealed. We had a whole mess of Trump associates actually convicted of various crimes (i.e. sentenced to jail, before they were pardoned)... Manafort, Stone, Bannon, Flynn.  All sentenced to jail. All pardoned by Trump. All of them remain attached in some way to the republicans post-conviction.

Yet the MAGAchud think that somehow Avanatti is more of a scandal than the multiple Trump associates who were sentenced to jail and pardoned by a racist con-artist who is facing significant legal issues himself.
What ever became of Rex Tillerson? There's a guy who seems to value his reputation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 04, 2022, 07:11:17 pm
What ever became of Rex Tillerson? There's a guy who seems to value his reputation.
You mean the CEO of Exxon Mobile?  I think he’s retired.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 07, 2022, 01:43:18 pm
Quote
On the other hand, look at Stubby McBonespurs and his merry Klan.... More and more, we see evidence of Trump's Crimes revealed. We had a whole mess of Trump associates actually convicted of various crimes
What ever became of Rex Tillerson? There's a guy who seems to value his reputation.
You mean the guy who called Trump a moron?

It is thought that he did his job rather... poorly. (What do you know? Trump made a poor pick for an appointment? Color me surprised!) But I am unaware of any allegations of criminal activity by him.

Probably desprately trying to distance himself from his time spent with the Trump administration. There does tend to be a habit of these people joining the administration, then making all these claims about how bad Trump is after they leave. (Umm... pretty much everyone else in the world who isn't a MAGAchud recognized Trump as corrupt/incompetent... so why did you agree to the job in the first place?

From: Wikipedia
Tillerson held a speech where he described Trump as "pretty undisciplined". Tillerson said Trump "doesn't like to read, doesn't read briefing reports, doesn't like to get into the details of a lot of things". Trump made similar remarks again in May 2019 after Tillerson reportedly said Trump had been out-maneuvered in a meeting with Vladimir Putin.
I
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 07, 2022, 02:04:36 pm
Quote
1.  All process crimes with no other underlying crime.
1. A "process" crime is still a crime;
Not only that... it is also wrong that "all the crimes were process crimes".

As I pointed out before:

Manafort... convicted of fraud. (Both bank fraud and tax fraud.)
Rick Gates... Indicted for Money Laundering and failure to register as a foreign agent
Bannon... indicted for wire fraud

Then you have all the Trump-related crimes and scandals...

- Trump university... where Trump had to pay back millions of dollars to former students. It was dealt with as a civil case, but Trump still ended up having to settle
- Trump foundation... where it was found that they had engaged in various... shady tactics (such as self-dealing, misusing funds for personal or political use, etc.)

And those are just the ones where the court cases have finished. You also have:

- Potential tax or bank fraud, (Such as with Weisselberg). The case is still going through the courts, but all evidence points to the fact that both he and the Trump organization engaged in tax fraud.
- Violations of the presidential records act

All those crimes involving either Trump himself, or people who worked with Trump. People within his administration, or business associates. And in the case of Bannon/Gates/Manafort, received pardons.

Yet the MAGAchud seem to be making a big deal of Avenatti, an individual whom:
- Was never associated with the Clinton or Biden campaigns
- Has never been offered a pardon by Biden
Yeah, he got some media attention for a while, and people did like to see him "take on" Trump, but he was never a real factor in Democratic party politics.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 08, 2022, 07:44:20 pm
Remember Clinton's email scandal? How the republicans thought it was such a security risk that she was using non-government infrastructure to conduct government business (despite the fact that she was following the advise of the former Republican secretary of state)? Remember the chants of "Lock her up"?

From: https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnists/2022/02/08/trump-white-house-documents-hillary-emails/6706509001/
The Times reporting added, “More recently, in response to the House select committee investigation into the Jan. 6 assault on the Capitol, Mr. Trump’s former chief of staff, Mark Meadows, provided hundreds of pages of documents, some of which came from his personal cellphone. The committee said it had questions about why Mr. Meadows had used a personal cellphone, a Signal account and two personal Gmail accounts to conduct official business

Of course we have seen that before... some of the Trump hell-spawn working for the government used private email addresses as well. So the fact that Meadows would have done the same thing is not surprising.

(Admittedly, they probably had to worry less about Russian spying, since Trump was basically GIVING AWAY classified information anyways.)

Oh, but it gets better! Remember how they criticized Clinton for deleting emails (ones that weren't even asked for)? About how bad it was that outdated equipment was destroyed?

From the above article:

As reported by The Post, “The National Archives and Records Administration last month retrieved 15 boxes of documents and other items from former president Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence because the material should have been turned over to the agency when he left the White House… The Archives has struggled to cope with a president who flouted document retention requirements and frequently ripped up official documents, leaving hundreds of pages taped back together – or some that arrived at the Archives still in pieces.”

So Trump was breaking the law regarding the presidential records act, by ripping up some documents and stealing others.

I wonder of republicans will break out with chants of "Lock him up!"

And it gets worse...

From: https://news.yahoo.com/trump-filled-burn-bags-shredded-074346452.html
White House documents – from schedules to sensitive memos – were regularly ripped into quarters and tossed into trash bins or on the floor of Air Force One, or stuffed into “burn bags” to be incinerated at the Pentagon

Hmmm... for a president who claimed he was honest, he certainly acted like he had something to hide.

Strange, you never heard about anything approaching that with Obama's presidency.


.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 08, 2022, 07:52:34 pm
Yeah I heard that... but news flash...

The culture war guarantees that there will be no justice.  I just saw that McConnell is splitting with the speaker because they are censuring Cheney for taking part in the Jan 6 committee.

Like Jan 6th was not something to do a review about...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 14, 2022, 06:57:02 pm
The Trump organization has just been unjustifiably accused by some random people that their financial statements cannot be trusted. I mean, the nerve of them.

And who are these people?

From: https://www.npr.org/2022/02/14/1080698388/trump-accountant-severs-relatioship-financial-statements-unreliable
Mazars USA, the longtime accounting firm for the Trump Organization, former President Donald Trump's family business, ended its relationship with the company last week and called into question the trustworthiness of a decade's worth of financial statements prepared for the Trump Organization...Mazars' attorney warned that financial statements from 2011 to 2020 "should no longer be relied upon" and said the company should inform any recipients of that information not to depend on those files. "We have come to this conclusion based, in part, upon the filings made by the New York Attorney General on January 18, 2022, our own investigation, and information received from internal and external sources," William Kelly, Mazars' general counsel, wrote.

I mean, just because they worked as Trump's accountants, not like they would know what the Trump Organization was doing.

Would they?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 14, 2022, 08:26:57 pm
Huge news!  The Clinton crime syndicate actually spied on the Trump campaign before and after the 2016 election.
They paid a tech company to access electronic communications via Trump Tower, as well as White House servers after 2016. 

Trump Really Was Spied On

the 2016 Hillary Clinton campaign effort to compile dirt on Donald Trump reached into protected White House communications.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/donald-trump-really-was-spied-on-2016-clinton-campaign-john-durham-court-filing-11644878973
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 15, 2022, 11:27:50 am
Huge news!  The Clinton crime syndicate actually spied on the Trump campaign before and after the 2016 election.

such a FoxNewsParrot you are! Notwithstanding the technical facets themselves, even the Special Counsel isn't claiming "during the campaign"... data gathering (as in DNS info) occurred during the Obama admin - well before the Trump campaign. In any case, accepting that you won't read this WAPO link (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/14/why-trump-is-once-again-claiming-that-he-was-spied-upon-2016/), it provides a clear refutation of your shadyNonsense (along with applicable timeline events):
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 15, 2022, 11:47:15 am
I now firmly believe FOX will continue to investigate Clinton long after she is dead.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 22, 2022, 02:09:54 pm
I now firmly believe FOX will continue to investigate Clinton long after she is dead.
And stilll come up with nothing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 22, 2022, 03:21:25 pm
I now firmly believe FOX will continue to investigate Clinton long after she is dead.
Well, it would help if she stopped participating in shady activities.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 22, 2022, 03:56:14 pm
Well, it would help if she stopped participating in shady activities.

Wait - was she eavesdropping on Trump RECENTLY ?!?

The GALL OF THAT WOMAN !!!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 12, 2022, 09:21:38 pm
https://twitter.com/EarthlingJR/status/1502841044659888132?t=0Y88YnDl2rKFqLv1oweJcw&s=19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 13, 2022, 03:01:35 pm
“Okay, but if Putin thought Trump was really that supportive of him, why didn’t he invade when Trump was in office?” - Bill Maher. “It’s at least worth asking that question if you’re not locked into one intransigent thought.”
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 13, 2022, 03:06:43 pm
“Okay, but if Putin thought Trump was really that supportive of him, why didn’t he invade when Trump was in office?” - Bill Maher. “It’s at least worth asking that question if you’re not locked into one intransigent thought.”

I guess we will never know right ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 13, 2022, 07:47:13 pm
“Okay, but if Putin thought Trump was really that supportive of him, why didn’t he invade when Trump was in office?” - Bill Maher. “It’s at least worth asking that question if you’re not locked into one intransigent thought.”

Maybe not everything revolves around who is in the White House, IDK.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 13, 2022, 09:25:12 pm
“Okay, but if Putin thought Trump was really that supportive of him, why didn’t he invade when Trump was in office?” - Bill Maher. “It’s at least worth asking that question if you’re not locked into one intransigent thought.”

(https://i.imgur.com/PN3cISr.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: eyeball on March 13, 2022, 09:56:51 pm
I guess we will never know right ?
Why would it even matter?  Divisiveness is all Putin wanted and its not like it took much effort. The US was long since rolling in that direction already all it took was a little push here and there through social media where success is almost entirely due to baffling with bullshit than impressing with brilliance. Something America was completely defenceless against and never stood a chance.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 23, 2022, 07:57:50 am
Paul Manafort had his passport revoked as he was trying to flee to Dubai (which has no extradition treaty with the U.S.). Chickens appear to be roosting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 23, 2022, 08:40:51 am
The Hunter Biden laptop story is real, confirmed by the New York Times.  Big tech and the mainstream media censored a true story that would have negatively impacted Joe Biden.  That’s why people think the election was rigged.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 23, 2022, 08:45:31 am
What laptop? Who cares? It doesn't seem justification to favour Russian authoritariaism over free elections.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 23, 2022, 10:23:21 am
The Hunter Biden laptop story is real, confirmed by the New York Times.  Big tech and the mainstream media censored a true story that would have negatively impacted Joe Biden.  That’s why people think the election was rigged.

No, people think the election was rigged because the loser kept telling them it was rigged and a bunch of other losers kept repeating the lie.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 23, 2022, 10:47:08 am
No, people think the election was rigged because the loser kept telling them it was rigged and a bunch of other losers kept repeating the lie.
The media colluded to keep this story silent.  They interfered in the election in favour of Biden.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 23, 2022, 10:48:32 am
What laptop? Who cares? It doesn't seem justification to favour Russian authoritariaism over free elections.
It’s a fairly big deal in that it shows the corruption of the Biden family.  Joe Biden had a joint bank account with his son, who was receiving money from regimes across the globe.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 23, 2022, 10:58:11 am
It’s a fairly big deal in that it shows the corruption of the Biden family.  Joe Biden had a joint bank account with his son, who was receiving money from regimes across the globe.
Nobody cares because you lost all credibility by being a stupid liar. Funny how that works, eh?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 23, 2022, 11:23:51 am
The media colluded to keep this story silent.  They interfered in the election in favour of Biden.

You weren't crying when they did the same thing to help Trump beat Clinton. Cope.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 23, 2022, 12:18:44 pm
You weren't crying when they did the same thing to help Trump beat Clinton. Cope.
But that didn’t happen.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 23, 2022, 12:19:26 pm
Nobody cares because you lost all credibility by being a stupid liar. Funny how that works, eh?
The only stupid liar is anyone still pushing the discredited Steele dossier.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 23, 2022, 12:27:56 pm
The only stupid liar is anyone still pushing the discredited Steele dossier.

Since the only person even talking about the Steele dossier anymore is you, I guess that makes you the stupid liar. But we already knew that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 23, 2022, 12:29:39 pm
But that didn’t happen.

Yeah the media (including the New York Times) pumped the bogus emails story right before the election which most certainly had an effect on the results. Moreso than the Hunter Biden thing which few people care about and fewer still can even explain or understand.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 23, 2022, 01:15:57 pm
Since the only person even talking about the Steele dossier anymore is you, I guess that makes you the stupid liar. But we already knew that.
Bubber’s constantly pushing the discredited Steele dossier.  Usually in the other forum.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 23, 2022, 01:22:56 pm
Yeah the media (including the New York Times) pumped the bogus emails story right before the election which most certainly had an effect on the results. Moreso than the Hunter Biden thing which few people care about and fewer still can even explain or understand.
The email story wasn’t bogus.  It was real, based on her illegal private server.  However, the entire mainstream media colluded to censor a story.  Twitter and Facebook shut down the account of the 3rd largest newspaper in the country because they didn’t want this story dispersed. 

Remember, whenever they say trust the experts.  Have any of these experts been asked to defend their election collusion?  These “experts” all signed a letter stating this story was Russian disinformation, without a shred of evidence.[attachimg=1]

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 23, 2022, 04:54:32 pm
Too funny.  Stormy Daniels loses her lawsuit against Trump.  She’s forced to pay him $300,000 dollars. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 23, 2022, 06:14:19 pm
Too funny.  Stormy Daniels loses her lawsuit against Trump.  She’s forced to pay him $300,000 dollars. 😂
Based on a technicality. He still paid her to have sex with him, such as he was able
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 23, 2022, 11:56:23 pm
Too funny.  Stormy Daniels loses her lawsuit against Trump.  She’s forced to pay him $300,000 dollars. 😂

no - that's on scumbagLawyer Avenatti... now doing time in the bigHouse!

(https://i.imgur.com/DjHy2Cn.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 24, 2022, 05:56:00 pm
The email story wasn’t bogus.  It was real, based on  illegal private server.
Hunter Biden's emails were hacked and were circulating among the Giuliani crowd. The more likely scenario (which doesn't involve Hunter going to an obscure computer repair shop far from his home and abandoning his laptop) is that a fake laptop was planted with the real emails and some fake ones.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/18/forgotten-and-ignored-context-emergence-hunter-biden-laptop-story/

But regardless, I recall, when there was a video of Doug Ford smoking crack (or was it his brother?---I forget), you were arguing the media was irresponsible for not suppressing it until it had been proven legitimate in court. What changed?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 24, 2022, 07:25:37 pm
Hunter Biden's emails were hacked and were circulating among the Giuliani crowd. The more likely scenario (which doesn't involve Hunter going to an obscure computer repair shop far from his home and abandoning his laptop) is that a fake laptop was planted with the real emails and some fake ones.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/18/forgotten-and-ignored-context-emergence-hunter-biden-laptop-story/

But regardless, I recall, when there was a video of Doug Ford smoking crack (or was it his brother?---I forget), you were arguing the media was irresponsible for not suppressing it until it had been proven legitimate in court. What changed?
Hunter Biden’s emails came from the laptop he left and forgot.  It outlines all of the corrupt business dealings involving his father and his brother.  Stop with your bullshit already.  If this was Don Jr’s laptop you’d be singing a different tune.  Stop making excuses for corruption, and especially stop your bullshit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 24, 2022, 08:55:35 pm
Hunter Biden’s emails came from the laptop he left and forgot.  It outlines all of the corrupt business dealings involving his father and his brother.  Stop with your bullshit already.  If this was Don Jr’s laptop you’d be singing a different tune.  Stop making excuses for corruption, and especially stop your bullshit.
The likeliest scenario is it was a Giuliani setup. You, however, were saying the Star reporters shouldn't have reported on a video they saw with their own eyes because he hadn't been convicted beyond a reasonable doubt yet. Why have you completely changed your position about how reporters should behave?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 25, 2022, 09:33:39 am
The likeliest scenario is it was a Giuliani setup. You, however, were saying the Star reporters shouldn't have reported on a video they saw with their own eyes because he hadn't been convicted beyond a reasonable doubt yet. Why have you completely changed your position about how reporters should behave?
Ok BlueAnon.  Giuliani convinced Hunter Biden to leave his laptop.  Right.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 25, 2022, 11:34:29 am
Ok BlueAnon.  Giuliani convinced Hunter Biden to leave his laptop.  Right.
No, Giuliani bought the emails that were available and planted then on a fake laptop with other fabricated emails and left it at a Trumper's laptop repair site. Unlike you, I'm not saying my theory absolutely has to be the truth. But it's certainly more plausible than Hunter abandoning his laptop there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 25, 2022, 11:39:32 am
Ok BlueAnon.  Giuliani convinced Hunter Biden to leave his laptop.  Right.
But you're not even going to try to explain your 180 on appropriate journalistic behaviour? Are you now saying it was correct for the Star reporters to report on the Doug Ford crack video?
I eagerly anticipate your cowardly non-answer.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 25, 2022, 12:02:31 pm
But you're not even going to try to explain your 180 on appropriate journalistic behaviour? Are you now saying it was correct for the Star reporters to report on the Doug Ford crack video?
I eagerly anticipate your cowardly non-answer.
Sounds like whataboutism.  Even though the two situations are at all similar.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 25, 2022, 12:08:58 pm
Sounds like whataboutism.  Even though the two situations are at all similar.
I'm just asking whether you still think it was wrong for the journalists to report on the video. How many ways can you avoid answering that without losing your remaining self-respect?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 25, 2022, 12:10:11 pm
I'm just asking whether you still think it was wrong for the journalists to report on the video. How many ways can you avoid answering that without losing your remaining self-respect?
And how was any journalist reporting on the video censored?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 25, 2022, 12:20:29 pm
And how was any journalist reporting on the video censored?
Who said it was? You felt it should gave been at the time though. In fact, you were very, very emotional about it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 25, 2022, 12:24:17 pm
Who said it was? You felt it should gave been at the time though. In fact, you were very, very emotional about it.
No, you're incorrect.  The issue was accusing somebody of something while keeping the evidence secret.  Which isn't at all apt to the Hunter Biden situation.  The emails, etc were made public, but censored by the entire mainstream media and big tech.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 25, 2022, 12:32:12 pm
No, Giuliani bought the emails that were available and planted then on a fake laptop with other fabricated emails and left it at a Trumper's laptop repair site. Unlike you, I'm not saying my theory absolutely has to be the truth. But it's certainly more plausible than Hunter abandoning his laptop there.

There's a ton of personally embarrassing stuff for Hunter Biden, but nothing to support the charges of Joe Biden being enmeshed in any of Hunter's business dealings. That's why these hacks are making it about "big tech and media censorship" and not the actual contents of the emails. There's nothing there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 25, 2022, 12:33:10 pm
No, you're incorrect.  The issue was accusing somebody of something while keeping the evidence secret.  Which isn't at all apt to the Hunter Biden situation.  The emails, etc were made public, but censored by the entire mainstream media and big tech.
But you were saying they should have kept their testimony of the evidence they saw secret. It wasn't a secret anymore once they saw it. You thought it should have been verified by more people than those who saw it first, but the laptop hasn't been verified as Hunter's at all. Only some emails on it have, and those were already circulating among the Giuliani cronies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 25, 2022, 12:34:25 pm
There's a ton of personally embarrassing stuff for Hunter Biden, but nothing to support the charges of Joe Biden being enmeshed in any of Hunter's business dealings.
That's incorrect.  You obviously haven't read all of the text messages and emails.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 25, 2022, 12:36:55 pm
But you were saying they should have kept their testimony of the evidence they saw secret. It wasn't a secret anymore once they saw it. You thought it should have been verified by more people than those who saw it first, but the laptop hasn't been verified as Hunter's at all. Only some emails on it have, and those were already circulating among the Giuliani cronies.
Nope, that's incorrect again.  The issue was referring to the existence of evidence in public while keeping it private.  Regardless, nobody reporting on it was censored.  Nobody was accused of spreading disinformation.  Nobody prevent the story from being circulated.  You have no case here.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 25, 2022, 12:38:01 pm
That's incorrect.  You obviously haven't read all of the text messages and emails.

Neither have you lol.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 25, 2022, 12:40:26 pm
Neither have you lol.
Yes I have.  You should look into Hunter and his business partners referring to the "big guy" ie Joe Biden in several text messages and emails.  They even discuss amounts of money to be set aside for the "big guy".  They even shared a joint bank account.  If this was Donald Trump and his son, you wouldn't be able to contain yourself.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 25, 2022, 12:44:51 pm
Yes I have.  You should look into Hunter and his business partners referring to the "big guy" ie Joe Biden in several text messages and emails.  They even discuss amounts of money to be set aside for the "big guy".  They even shared a joint bank account.

That's it? Your evidence is Hunter throwing his father's name around in discussions of a deal that ultimately never happened like any failson would? That's pathetic even for you.

Quote
If this was Donald Trump and his son, you wouldn't be able to contain yourself.

Yeah because there's a whole history of shady deals with that crew.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 25, 2022, 12:47:15 pm
  Nobody was accused of spreading disinformation. 
Are you serious? Your memory is so selective. You insisted they had to be liars.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 25, 2022, 12:47:36 pm
That's it? Your evidence is Hunter throwing his father's name around in discussions of a deal that ultimately never happened like any failson would? That's pathetic even for you.

Yeah because there's a whole history of shady deals with that crew.
There's a history of Biden shady deals as well.  You should read up on Biden Inc.  Regardless, Hunter is under current FBI investigation. 


Over his decades in office, ‘Middle-Class Joe’s’ family fortunes have closely tracked his political career.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/08/02/joe-biden-investigation-hunter-brother-hedge-fund-money-2020-campaign-227407/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 25, 2022, 12:49:15 pm
Are you serious? Your memory is so selective. You insisted they had to be liars.
No, that's not what I said.  Even if it was, a private citizen in an internet forum is hardly comparable to an entire industry as well as so-called intelligence experts and tech executives.  Stop this nonsense already.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 25, 2022, 12:56:06 pm
There's a history of Biden shady deals as well.  You should read up on Biden Inc.  Regardless, Hunter is under current FBI investigation. 

Over his decades in office, ‘Middle-Class Joe’s’ family fortunes have closely tracked his political career.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/08/02/joe-biden-investigation-hunter-brother-hedge-fund-money-2020-campaign-227407/

From your link: "There’s no evidence that Joe Biden used his power inappropriately or took action to benefit his relatives with respect to these ventures."


You got nothing.


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 28, 2022, 12:01:04 pm
Judge rules Trump's efforts to overturn election likely criminal
 (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/600020-judge-rules-trumps-efforts-to-overturn-election-likely-criminal)

Quote
Former President Trump and his legal adviser, John Eastman, likely committed multiple federal crimes in their effort to prevent Congress from certifying President Biden's 2020 election victory, a federal judge ruled on Monday in a civil case involving subpoenas from the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6 Capitol insurrection.

U.S. District Judge David Carter said in a 44-page decision on whether some of Eastman's private communications should be shielded from the panel that he found it "more likely than not" that the two engaged in criminal conduct.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 28, 2022, 12:34:36 pm
From your link: "There’s no evidence that Joe Biden used his power inappropriately or took action to benefit his relatives with respect to these ventures."


You got nothing.
There’s been almost no investigation into Joe Biden’s involvement.  Regardless, the FBI hasn’t released any of its findings.  So your point is moot.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 28, 2022, 12:45:25 pm
There’s been almost no investigation into Joe Biden’s involvement.  Regardless, the FBI hasn’t released any of its findings. So your point is moot.

So what you're saying is there’s no evidence that Joe Biden used his power inappropriately or took action to benefit his relatives with respect to these ventures?


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 28, 2022, 12:54:09 pm
There’s been almost no investigation into Joe Biden’s involvement.

oh c'mon Retro! If there was sumthin', particularly in what was the election year, these 2 Republican led Congressional Committees would have found it!

(https://i.imgur.com/vWm2iNs.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 28, 2022, 12:57:23 pm
oh c'mon Retro! If there was sumthin', particularly in what was the election year, these 2 Republican led Congressional Committees would have found it!

(https://i.imgur.com/vWm2iNs.gif)
That has nothing to do with the ongoing Hunter Biden FBI investigation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 28, 2022, 01:05:39 pm
That has nothing to do with the ongoing Hunter Biden FBI investigation.

so, uhhh... why do give a crapola about the son of?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 28, 2022, 01:32:00 pm
so, uhhh... why do give a crapola about the son of?

Porjection, of course.
Ex-prosecutor: Trump ‘guilty of numerous felony violations’
 (https://apnews.com/article/business-new-york-manhattan-donald-trump-criminal-investigations-291b0ac45cf89e6e558d31247d17eeee)

Quote
A prosecutor who had been leading a criminal investigation into Donald Trump before quitting last month said in his resignation letter that he believes the former president is “guilty of numerous felony violations” and he disagreed with the Manhattan district attorney’s decision not to seek an indictment.

In the letter, published Wednesday by The New York Times, Mark Pomerantz told District Attorney Alvin Bragg there was “evidence sufficient to establish Mr. Trump’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt” of allegations he falsified financial statements to secure loans and burnish his image as a wealthy businessman.

“The team that has been investigating Mr. Trump harbors no doubt about whether he committed crimes — he did,” Pomerantz wrote.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 29, 2022, 06:30:23 pm
Plus he used a burner phone while orchestrating his failed insurrection. He was committing crimes and he knew it.
But whatabout Hunter being on the boards of some companies?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 29, 2022, 06:56:23 pm
I find nothing suspicious about the son of the current POTUS and former Vice POTUS working with Ukrainian former-politicians who were being investigated for money laundering, having business convos with the Ukrainian head of government, working for Chinese investment firms, and selling his crappy paintings for up to half a million each.  He's squeeky clean leave him alone.

For reference, I also think Donald Trump is a anti-Russian selfless American patriot who does not like sleeping with pornstars that kinda look like his ex-wife.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 29, 2022, 10:04:24 pm
I find nothing suspicious about the son of the current POTUS and former Vice POTUS working with Ukrainian former-politicians who were being investigated for money laundering, having business convos with the Ukrainian head of government, working for Chinese investment firms, and selling his crappy paintings for up to half a million each.  He's squeeky clean leave him alone.
Lets get a few things straight, shall we?

Yes, Hunter Biden had business dealings with various international companies. (I would even guess that the status that came with being the son of a notable politician benefitted him.)

But lets compare Hunter/Joe Biden him with Trump and his spawn, shall we?

First of all, at this point, we do not have any hard evidence that Hunter Biden himself engaged in anything illegal in his business dealings. (We might complain that "He's earning too much", but other than vague allegations from the MAGAchud, nothing substantial.) Compare that to Trump's Klan... who were caught up in the financial scam that is the Trump foundation.

Given a choice, I am a bit more worried about a group of people that have actually lost lawsuits over corrupt business practices over someone where the "evidence" of his wrongdoing is confined to pearl-clutching from the MAGAchud.

And of course, that's just the Trump foundation... Its not counting the various legal issues surrounding the whole Trump Organization. Granted, there is the whole "innocent until proven guilty", but the evidence of corruption with the Trump organization is much stronger than with Hunter biden.

Secondly... Even if Hunter Biden were somehow personally involved with illegal business dealings, so what? He was not a member of the Obama or Biden administration. There is no hard evidence that Joe Biden made efforts to benefit Hunter. (In fact, just the opposite... when he was VP under Obama, he actually worked to get Ukraine to crack down on corruption... kind of the opposite thing he would do if he was trying to help Hunter cover up illegal activity.)

Compare that to Trump's spawn (his older ones)... rather than being detached from their father's political activities as Hunter Biden is, they are highly involved with Donald Trump's activities (with one of them even taking a position of 'advisor', while at the same time having significant business dealings with China.)


 
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 30, 2022, 06:50:30 am
Giuliani's son also had a patronage job. I'd be surprised if only a minority of the elite got patronage jobs for their friends and family.

This is always about controlling the narrative and making the story about what they want to make it about. Case in point is this Biden story.

In other news, Trump's rallies are now dwindling to about 5,000 audience members.  And his supported candidate Mo Brooks turned against him after Trump with Drew support. He was pulling a distant third.

OMG I think that about a year after the inauguration, he can see it clear trend to Trump's reduced influence which was something I was hoping for.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 30, 2022, 12:01:02 pm
Giuliani's son also had a patronage job. I'd be surprised if only a minority of the elite got patronage jobs for their friends and family.

This is always about controlling the narrative and making the story about what they want to make it about. Case in point is this Biden story.

In other news, Trump's rallies are now dwindling to about 5,000 audience members.  And his supported candidate Mo Brooks turned against him after Trump with Drew support. He was pulling a distant third.

OMG I think that about a year after the inauguration, he can see it clear trend to Trump's reduced influence which was something I was hoping for.
I agree.  That's one of the reasons I don't think Trump will run in 2024, or at least I hope not.  I'd rather see several others given a chance.  He had his chance, and blew it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 30, 2022, 12:45:52 pm
I agree.  That's one of the reasons I don't think Trump will run in 2024, or at least I hope not.  I'd rather see several others given a chance.  He had his chance, and blew it.

If you want to reduce corruption, build a parallel service to do what government does... start from the ground up...

Then slowly give them more power as they go...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 31, 2022, 12:15:43 pm
I agree.  He had his chance, and blew it.
And yet you still tried to discredit the whole election and undermine western democracy because you lost.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 02, 2022, 08:17:38 pm
And yet you still tried to discredit the whole election and undermine western democracy because you lost.
Complete nonsense.  You’re “undermine western democracy” assertion is the highest form of hyperbole I’ve read in quite a while.  Get professional help.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 02, 2022, 09:42:08 pm
How is coming up with an alternate slate of electors not undermining democracy?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on April 03, 2022, 12:34:04 am
Shady, do you think Donald Trump won the 2020 US Presidential election?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 03, 2022, 08:59:57 am
How is coming up with an alternate slate of electors not undermining democracy?
Electors are put in place during a process long before the election.  Alternate electors is alternate reality.  It means nothing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 03, 2022, 09:01:18 am
Shady, do you think Donald Trump won the 2020 US Presidential election?
No.  Do you think that Hillary Clinton win the 2016 presidential election?  Do you think John Kerry won the 2004 election?  Do you think Al Gore won the 2000 election?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 03, 2022, 09:04:29 am
Electors are put in place during a process long before the election.  Alternate electors is alternate reality.  It means nothing.
It was profoundly stupid and a failure, but you bought into it at the time. You guys were wanting to hang Pence for not going along with it. This is an attempt at undermining democracy. Just because you admit now that you were complete idiots doesn't excuse it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 03, 2022, 09:18:22 am
It was profoundly stupid and a failure, but you bought into it at the time. You guys were wanting to hang Pence for not going along with it. This is an attempt at undermining democracy. Just because you admit now that you were complete idiots doesn't excuse it.
Complete and utter nonsense.  I didn’t buy into anything.  But talking about undermining democracy, insisting that Russia hacked the election sure is.  So is insisting that voting machines changed votes to Bush in 2004.  So is saying that the Supreme Court stole the 2000 election.  You guys are pros at undermining democracy.  You have no credibility.  You’re disgusting hypocrites with no self awareness.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 03, 2022, 09:20:59 am
You're trying to pretend you never questioned Biden's win? Who do you think you're fooling?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 03, 2022, 10:02:17 am
You're trying to pretend you never questioned Biden's win? Who do you think you're fooling?
Are you trying to pretend that you never questioned Trump’s win, or Bush’s wins?  Who do you think you’re fooling?  Do you still believe the Big Lies that Russia changed votes for Trump?  Or that machines in Ohio changed votes from Kerry to Bush?  Or that the Supreme Court stole the election?  Democrats pushed all of those lies.  Do you support the Democrats that refused to vote to certify the election results in 2000, 2004 and 2016?  Yes or no.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 03, 2022, 10:22:43 am
Trump won the election with Russia's help. That's just a fact. But no, I never cheered in support of riots to threaten public officials or supported undermining the electors. I also question and criticize gerrymandering and voter suppression, but that is not undermining the democratic process. That's trying to make it better

But nice avoidance of the question. Add it to the list of things you now admit you were wrong about: Bush, Iraq, Afghanistan, weed decriminalization, gay marriage...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 03, 2022, 10:36:52 am
Trump won the election with Russia's help. That's just a fact. But no, I never cheered in support of riots to threaten public officials or supported undermining the electors. I also question and criticize gerrymandering and voter suppression, but that is not undermining the democratic process. That's trying to make it better

But nice avoidance of the question. Add it to the list of things you now admit you were wrong about: Bush, Iraq, Afghanistan, weed decriminalization, gay marriage...
Biden won the election with the mainstream media and big tech’s help.  That’s a fact.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 03, 2022, 10:41:32 am
Biden won the election with the mainstream media and big tech’s help.  That’s a fact.
Not to the extent Trump won it with their (and Russia's) help in 2016.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 03, 2022, 10:47:19 am
Not to the extent Trump won it with their (and Russia's) help in 2016.
Russia didn’t have any impact on the 2016 election.  Hillary and her illegal private server did.  But the mainstream media and big techs suppression of stories damaging to Biden had a huge impact.  That’s a fact.  But you don’t care because it helped Biden.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 03, 2022, 10:56:33 am
Russia didn’t have any impact on the 2016 election.  Hillary and her illegal private server did.  But the mainstream media and big techs suppression of stories damaging to Biden had a huge impact.  That’s a fact.  But you don’t care because it helped Biden.
But her emails! That's really all you got?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on April 03, 2022, 10:58:34 am
Russia didn’t have any impact on the 2016 election.  Hillary and her illegal private server did.  But the mainstream media and big techs suppression of stories damaging to Biden had a huge impact.  That’s a fact. But you don’t care because it helped Biden.

Imagine believing this and also thinking the Supreme Court didn't steal the 2000 election for Bush. Just put a DNR on this guy, there's no brain activity there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 03, 2022, 11:10:17 am
Imagine believing this and also thinking the Supreme Court didn't steal the 2000 election for Bush. Just put a DNR on this guy, there's no brain activity there.
Imagine not knowing a thing about this but pretending you’re some kind authority.  That’s the forum trash bag know as Black Dogg.  The Supreme Court had to step in because Gore only wanted 3 counties recounted, the ones he won big.  And then, each country had their own standard of counting votes.  That was all unconstitutional.  That’s what the Supreme Court ruled you f**king moron.  The media also did its own recount after the fact, Bush won.  Delete your account you’re too stupid to be posting anymore.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 03, 2022, 11:12:25 am
But her emails! That's really all you got?
You should take that up with the FBI.  They’re the ones that ruined it for her.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 03, 2022, 12:07:35 pm
You should take that up with the FBI.  They’re the ones that ruined it for her.
That's true. It was suspicious they announced their investigation into her and not the one into Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 03, 2022, 12:32:30 pm
That's true. It was suspicious they announced their investigation into her and not the one into Trump.
Take it up James Comey.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on April 03, 2022, 12:40:36 pm
Imagine not knowing a thing about this but pretending you’re some kind authority.  That’s the forum trash bag know as Black Dogg.  The Supreme Court had to step in because Gore only wanted 3 counties recounted, the ones he won big.  And then, each country had their own standard of counting votes.  That was all unconstitutional.  That’s what the Supreme Court ruled you f**king moron.  The media also did its own recount after the fact, Bush won.  Delete your account you’re too stupid to be posting anymore.

Bush v. Gore was a travesty, one of the worst SCOTUS decisions since Dred Scott, an unprecedented and extraordinary intrusion by unelected partisan judges in the electoral process.

Your mother should have drowned you at birth like a deformed piglet, but it's not too late.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 03, 2022, 02:33:01 pm
Bush v. Gore was a travesty, one of the worst SCOTUS decisions since Dred Scott, an unprecedented and extraordinary intrusion by unelected partisan judges in the electoral process.

Your mother should have drowned you at birth like a deformed piglet, but it's not too late.
You know that you just saying that it’s a bad decision doesn’t mean it is.  You cited absolutely nothing substantive in your disagreement with the decision, other than a toddler like tantrum.  You still don’t acknowledge the fact that Gore sought to recount only 3 counties.  Counties he won by wide margins.  You also don’t acknowledge the fact that each country had its own standard in determining what a legal vote was.  You can whine and cry and name call all you want, but it doesn’t change those inconvenient facts.  This forum needs a mentally retarded section for you to post in.  Reeeeeeeeeee!  SCOTUS.  Reeeeeeee!  Intrusion.  Reeeeeeee!  🤣
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 03, 2022, 05:55:55 pm
The Supreme Court had to step in because Gore only wanted 3 counties recounted, the ones he won big.  And then, each country had their own standard of counting votes.
You still don’t acknowledge the fact that Gore sought to recount only 3 counties.  Counties he won by wide margins.

Retro, you apparently don't realize there's no shortage of historical summary accounts of what actually transpired... otherwise you wouldn't so brazingly and pompously play with facts!

in any case, since you keep nattering on the point about which counties (and how many) were selected for a recount: the narrow vote margin automatically triggered an automatic mechanical recount... checking the machines and the tallies—but not a recount by hand. That mechanical recount reduced Bush’s margin to 327 votes. Gore had the right to request a hand recount in each of Florida’s 67 counties—the request had to be made county by county—but he asked for a recount in just four: Broward, Miami-Dade, Palm Beach, and Volusia. They were also counties where problems with voting had been concentrated... you know, the infamous butterfly ballot problems, the punch-card apparatus problems, the absentee ballot problems, etc..

as for the U.S. Supreme Court, as you say, stepping in - that happened when the Bush campaign petitioned the U.S. Supreme Court for certiorari—that is, asked it to review the Florida States Supreme Court’s decision.

you should stop now before you really get the waldo's interest!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on April 03, 2022, 08:58:40 pm
You know that you just saying that it’s a bad decision doesn’t mean it is.  You cited absolutely nothing substantive in your disagreement with the decision, other than a toddler like tantrum.  You still don’t acknowledge the fact that Gore sought to recount only 3 counties.  Counties he won by wide margins.  You also don’t acknowledge the fact that each country had its own standard in determining what a legal vote was.  You can whine and cry and name call all you want, but it doesn’t change those inconvenient facts.  This forum needs a mentally retarded section for you to post in.  Reeeeeeeeeee!  SCOTUS.  Reeeeeeee!  Intrusion.  Reeeeeeee!  🤣

lol you can't even come up with original insults to go with your unoriginal thoughts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 03, 2022, 09:19:30 pm
lol you can't even come up with original insults to go with your unoriginal thoughts.
And you still can’t come up with an actual argument.  Reeeeeeeee!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on April 03, 2022, 11:21:03 pm
And you still can’t come up with an actual argument.  Reeeeeeeee!

LOL you're trying soooo hard.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 04, 2022, 11:23:03 am
Retro, you apparently don't realize there's no shortage of historical summary accounts of what actually transpired... otherwise you wouldn't so brazingly and pompously play with facts!

in any case, since you keep nattering on the point about which counties (and how many) were selected for a recount: the narrow vote margin automatically triggered an automatic mechanical recount... checking the machines and the tallies—but not a recount by hand. That mechanical recount reduced Bush’s margin to 327 votes. Gore had the right to request a hand recount in each of Florida’s 67 counties—the request had to be made county by county—but he asked for a recount in just four: Broward, Miami-Dade, Palm Beach, and Volusia. They were also counties where problems with voting had been concentrated... you know, the infamous butterfly ballot problems, the punch-card apparatus problems, the absentee ballot problems, etc..

as for the U.S. Supreme Court, as you say, stepping in - that happened when the Bush campaign petitioned the U.S. Supreme Court for certiorari—that is, asked it to review the Florida States Supreme Court’s decision.

you should stop now before you really get the waldo's interest!
Yes, the infamous butterfly ballot, designed by Democrats.  So what?  Hey, how about the re-count completed by media companies after the fact, concluding that yep, Bush did win.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 05, 2022, 02:19:01 am
Yes, the infamous butterfly ballot, designed by Democrats.  So what?  Hey, how about the re-count completed by media companies after the fact, concluding that yep, Bush did win.

the ballot was designed by a single person - an election official; one who was a Republican turned Democrat... but big friggin deal. It was flawed and {is estimated} to have caused tens of thousands of votes to be improperly cast - votes that would have otherwise gone to Gore.

you keep nattering on about 'media company' recounts... showing, again, you don't know what you're talking about. Yes, there were an assortment of recounts (some 3+ months after the actual election); however, all of these were only of partial results from select counties... with results provided by "election officials" to contracted accounting firms.  No media companies actually did the recount; rather, contracted companies as sponsored by various media outlets did recounts... some of which, depending on what standards and counties were used/chosen, went Bush's way - others that went Gore's way!. Your much ballyhooed media sponsored recount result was of only ~ 175,000 votes... where subsequent estimates/projections were made for state-wide implications and probabilities.

again, the U.S. Supreme Court effectively over-ruled the lower court (Florida Supreme Court) ruling that called for a limited statewide recount - a Florida ruling that would have provided the most comprehensive undertaking and accompanying result... one certainly more complete than the ones sponsored by media!

Retro, get your head outaYourAzz!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 05, 2022, 09:08:34 am
the ballot was designed by a single person - an election official; one who was a Republican turned Democrat... but big friggin deal. It was flawed and {is estimated} to have caused tens of thousands of votes to be improperly cast - votes that would have otherwise gone to Gore.

you keep nattering on about 'media company' recounts... showing, again, you don't know what you're talking about. Yes, there were an assortment of recounts (some 3+ months after the actual election); however, all of these were only of partial results from select counties... with results provided by "election officials" to contracted accounting firms.  No media companies actually did the recount; rather, contracted companies as sponsored by various media outlets did recounts... some of which, depending on what standards and counties were used/chosen, went Bush's way - others that went Gore's way!. Your much ballyhooed media sponsored recount result was of only ~ 175,000 votes... where subsequent estimates/projections were made for state-wide implications and probabilities.

again, the U.S. Supreme Court effectively over-ruled the lower court (Florida Supreme Court) ruling that called for a limited statewide recount - a Florida ruling that would have provided the most comprehensive undertaking and accompanying result... one certainly more complete than the ones sponsored by media!

Retro, get your head outaYourAzz!
It was over ruled because a limited recount using various differing methods of determining legal votes was unconstitutional.  And you're also wrong, media companies did in fact conduct their own recounts after the fact, and found that Bush did win.  Stop trying to spread the Big Lie.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 05, 2022, 11:10:26 am
It was over ruled because a limited recount using various differing methods of determining legal votes was unconstitutional.  And you're also wrong, media companies did in fact conduct their own recounts after the fact, and found that Bush did win.  Stop trying to spread the Big Lie.

no - the, as intended by the Florida Supreme Court, recounting was to occur broadly in all Florida counties... to recount ballots that did not register votes on election day. And in that 5-4 SCOTUS decision the unconstitutional aspect was one that claimed the Florida legislature, and not the Florida Supreme Court, had purview in terms of establishing recount particulars.

the waldo's crack research team assures me that NO Media companies performed actual counting (recounting); rather, as I previously stated, media companies acted as sponsors in contracting said recounts to 'accounting firms'. And yes, depending on selected standards/counties chosen, Bush won some of the recounts... Gore others! But certainly, step-up and learn the waldo here... you've said/claimed a lot of unsubstantiated things here - certainly you must be able to cite something to clear the smoke coming outaYourAzz - surely!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 05, 2022, 11:17:47 am
And in that 5-4 SCOTUS decision the unconstitutional aspect was one that claimed the Florida legislature, and not the Florida Supreme Court, had purview in terms of establishing recount particulars.

the waldo's crack research team assures me that NO Media companies performed actual counting (recounting); rather, as I previously stated, media companies acted as sponsors in contracting said recounts to 'accounting firms'. And yes, depending on selected standards/counties chosen, Bush won some of the recounts... Gore others! But certainly, step-up and learn the waldo here... you've said/claimed a lot of unsubstantiated things here - certainly you must be able to cite something to clear the smoke coming outaYourAzz - surely!
Exactly.  The legislature does have jurisdiction as courts cannot make new law.  Regardless, your assertion is incorrect.  Bush won Florida, you need to come to grips with it, and stop spreading the Big Lie.

Media Recount: Bush Won the 2000 Election
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/media-jan-june01-recount_04-03
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 05, 2022, 11:29:23 am
Exactly.  The legislature does have jurisdiction as courts cannot make new law.  Regardless, your assertion is incorrect.  Bush won Florida, you need to come to grips with it, and stop spreading the Big Lie.

Media Recount: Bush Won the 2000 Election https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/media-jan-june01-recount_04-03

what assertion? The waldo made no assertion in terms of that U.S. election winner; rather, I've repeatedly stated the recounts, depending on how they were done, either presented Bush as the winner... or, alternatively, Gore as the winner - again, depending on - you moron!

as for the media involvement aspect, I suggest you actually read your referenced linked article... not just drop the link (of which there are a brazillion such articles presuming to offer historical summations on the election and subsequent recounts). Cause if you actually read your linked article you would quote from it... something you're so afraid to do. Instead you perpetually drop go-fetch links, never actually quoting from them... while always putting the onus on others to scurry through your linked references. Man-up azzhole - start quoting from your go-fetch linked articles!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 10, 2022, 05:53:59 pm
Liz Cheney says they have enough evidence to make a referral to charge Trump with criminal conspiracy.
Bet that doesn't get a mention on Fox news.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 10, 2022, 06:12:09 pm
Liz Cheney says they have enough evidence to make a referral to charge Trump with criminal conspiracy.
Bet that doesn't get a mention on Fox news.
Liz Cheney won’t be in congress anymore after this November.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 10, 2022, 06:38:26 pm
Liz Cheney won’t be in congress anymore after this November.
Yes, that's because pathetic people like you would put worship of a con artist over country.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 10, 2022, 06:51:14 pm
Yes, that's because pathetic people like you would put worship of a con artist over country.
No.  Because she’s completely abandoned her constituents in her crusade for Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 10, 2022, 07:11:13 pm
No.  Because she’s completely abandoned her constituents in her crusade for Trump.
It's amazing you people can still worship him so much after he clearly tried to subvert democracy. It's like you have no ethics at all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 11, 2022, 06:41:26 am
Saudis give Jared $2B for...being Trump's son in law. But Hunter had a position on a board and a laptop.

Not to mention: Those involved in planning the events of Jan. 6 “knew that they were going to attempt to use violence to stop the transfer of power... That is the definition of an insurrection." - Liz Cheney
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on April 11, 2022, 07:49:09 am
Saudis give Jared $2B for...being Trump's son in law. But Hunter had a position on a board and a laptop.

That should be illegal.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 11, 2022, 08:33:43 am
That should be illegal.

I think conflict of interest laws need to be airtight and more extensive the higher you go.  If you were in the top levels of the executive, neither you nor your family can work for foreign governments or their nationalized industries.

That, together with tightening financing would help.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 11, 2022, 08:46:49 am
I think conflict of interest laws need to be airtight and more extensive the higher you go.  If you were in the top levels of the executive, neither you nor your family can work for foreign governments or their nationalized industries.

That, together with tightening financing would help.
True, but it might be too late for Hunter Biden.  Indications are that he’s going to be indicted.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 11, 2022, 09:07:33 am
You must have him confused with that other crackhead, Don Jr., whose insurrectionist texts were uncovered last week.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 11, 2022, 09:21:46 am
You must have him confused with that other crackhead, Don Jr., whose insurrectionist texts were uncovered last week.
Those aren’t “insurrection” texts.  It’s all constitutionally protected speech.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 11, 2022, 09:31:53 am
Those aren’t “insurrection” texts.  It’s all constitutionally protected speech.
You still have no idea that conspiracy laws exist? Wow. You're stupid.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 11, 2022, 09:45:37 am
You still have no idea that conspiracy laws exist? Wow. You're stupid.
You people are politicizing and abusing the legal system.  Acquittals have been rendered on January 6th defendants as well as the Michigan kidnapping case, ALL acquitted, because they’re all bogus chargers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 11, 2022, 09:49:01 am
You people are politicizing and abusing the legal system.  Acquittals have been rendered on January 6th defendants as well as the Michigan kidnapping case, ALL acquitted, because they’re all bogus chargers.
No, not all Jan. 6 insurrectionists have been acquitted. Many have been found guilty, hundreds pled guilty, and many are still before the courts. Why don't you find sources that don't lie to you all the time? You'd think you'd get tired of being proven wrong and looking like an idiot.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 11, 2022, 09:58:28 am
But it's amazing that people who would pretend to be outraged about a president's son being on a company's board would accept a $2B payment to a son-in-law from a bonesaw regime responsible for 9/11. It's like their only desire is to destroy Western democracy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 11, 2022, 11:01:54 am
Acquittals have been rendered on... the Michigan kidnapping case, ALL acquitted, because they’re all bogus chargers.

bogus charges? Is that why 2 of the 4 degenerates initially pled guilty in the plot to kidnap the Michigan Governor? ... 2 of the 4 were acquitted by the jury; it hung on the other 2. Nice defense though; one that claimed the 4 were just, "good ole' loud mouth pot smoking boys", who didn't really mean it! In any case, the prosecution stated they would be seeking a retrial for the 2 'ring-leaders' - stay tuned, hey!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 11, 2022, 11:05:09 am
If people try to kidnap and **** a Dem governor. Shady assumes they are his people and defends them. He'll even lie about what they did because, once you're onside with these people, there is no integrity left to defend.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 11, 2022, 11:44:05 am
If people try to kidnap and **** a Dem governor. Shady assumes they are his people and defends them. He'll even lie about what they did because, once you're onside with these people, there is no integrity left to defend.

hey Retro! Who was your key boy here - who was leadin' this fine group of patriots?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FP2o0VQX0AEvAYz?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 11, 2022, 11:45:52 am
If people try to kidnap and **** a Dem governor. Shady assumes they are his people and defends them. He'll even lie about what they did because, once you're onside with these people, there is no integrity left to defend.
No, I’m just not a fan of police state tactics like you are.  That’s why they were acquitted.  Just like I told you they would be.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on April 11, 2022, 11:48:16 am
hey Retro! Who was your key boy here - who was leadin' this fine group of patriots?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FP2o0VQX0AEvAYz?format=jpg&name=large)
Which one of these BLM convicts is your boy?

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 11, 2022, 11:49:03 am
No, I’m just not a fan of police state tactics like you are.  That’s why they were acquitted.  Just like I told you they would be.

c'mon Retro! Quit your gDamn lying!

bogus charges? Is that why 2 of the 4 degenerates initially pled guilty in the plot to kidnap the Michigan Governor? ... 2 of the 4 were acquitted by the jury; it hung on the other 2. Nice defense though; one that claimed the 4 were just, "good ole' loud mouth pot smoking boys", who didn't really mean it! In any case, the prosecution stated they would be seeking a retrial for the 2 'ring-leaders' - stay tuned, hey!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 11, 2022, 11:50:33 am
Which one of these BLM convicts is your boy?

your whataboutism is misplaced; the waldo hasn't taken a position on BLM - try again, try harder!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on April 11, 2022, 11:51:05 am
If people try to kidnap and **** a Dem governor. Shady assumes they are his people and defends them. He'll even lie about what they did because, once you're onside with these people, there is no integrity left to defend.

Here's (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kenbensinger/a-stunning-surprise-in-the-michigan-kidnapping-case-calls) a good piece on how the case collapsed and the extraordinary lengths prosecutors went through to try and land a conviction

F*ck those dumb chuds, but the state luring people into bogus plots and then arresting them for participating is a real problem:

Bogus crimes, real penalties (http://newyorker.com/magazine/2021/10/18/stash-house-stings-carry-real-penalties-for-fake-crimes)

FBI and fake terror plots (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/nov/16/fbi-entrapment-fake-terror-plots)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on April 11, 2022, 11:53:47 am
No, I’m just not a fan of police state tactics like you are.  That’s why they were acquitted.  Just like I told you they would be.

(https://data.whicdn.com/images/299657070/original.png)

Which one of these BLM convicts is your boy?

Most charges against George Floyd protesters dropped, analysis shows (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/17/george-floyd-protesters-charges-citations-analysis)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 11, 2022, 11:55:35 am
F*ck those dumb chuds, but the state luring people into bogus plots and then arresting them for participating is a real problem:

whaaa! So no 'Mr. Big' stings for you... even as it stood the test of claimed entrapment... even it has withstood constitutional scrutiny?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on April 11, 2022, 12:16:07 pm
whaaa! So no 'Mr. Big' stings for you... even as it stood the test of claimed entrapment... even it has withstood constitutional scrutiny?

Yes I don't think the government should be able to deceive people into committing crimes they otherwise would not have just so the government can arrest them for said crimes.

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 11, 2022, 04:24:13 pm
Russia is threatening resuming their election interference and putting Trump back in office in 2024 as retaliation for sanctions. Bombing thousands of innocent civilians is one thing, but this is beyond the pale.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-state-media-airs-its-ultimate-revenge-plan-for-2024-us-presidential-elections
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on April 12, 2022, 02:08:56 pm
Russia is threatening resuming their election interference and putting Trump back in office in 2024 as retaliation for sanctions. Bombing thousands of innocent civilians is one thing, but this is beyond the pale.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-state-media-airs-its-ultimate-revenge-plan-for-2024-us-presidential-elections

Something something Steele dossier something something hunter's laptop
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 13, 2022, 10:16:11 am
Russia is threatening resuming their election interference and putting Trump back in office in 2024 as retaliation for sanctions.
The problem is your suggestion that the election interference would be in retaliation for sanctions.

The fact is, Russia was always going to interfere in the 2024 election.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 13, 2022, 10:25:20 am
From: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/jared-kushner-scores-2-billion-investment-from-saudi-arabia-report-11649700763
Jared Kushner received a $2 billion investment from Saudi Arabia’s sovereign wealth fund...Kushner’s firm, Affinity Partners, made the deal shortly after President Donald Trump left office, despite a Saudi Public Investment Fund review panel’s concerns about “inexperience” and a due-diligence review that was “unsatisfactory in all aspects”...Kushner worked as a top Trump White House aide.

From: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/controversial-saudi-backed-tournament-reportedly-131859840.html
The highly controversial new golf league funded by the Saudis will hold one of its tournaments at Donald Trump’s course in Bedminster... The lucrative new tournament comes on the heels of Trump’s sweetheart relationship with the Saudis when... He once gushed at a campaign rally in 2015 that he liked the Saudis “very much” because they do business with him and spend millions to buy apartments from him. Trump refused to criticize Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman even after American intelligence determined the prince ordered the brutal 2018 murder and dismemberment of Saudi dissident and Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

But please, tell us how Hunter Biden's laptop is somehow evidence of corruption on behalf of the Democrats.  (Because somehow Saudi money going right to members of members of the Trump family or even Trump himself are somehow OK, but Hunter Biden, who was never a member of any Democratic administration, is wrong for his foreign business dealings.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 13, 2022, 09:43:46 pm
I doubt even the inevitable disclosure of the connection between Trump stealing boxes of classified material and Jared getting his $2B from the Saudis would make Trumpers stop worshipping him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 15, 2022, 07:30:33 am
Trump insurrectionist Mark Meadows will no longer be allowed to fake vote from his fake home. I guess they weren't lying about the voter fraud. They were just projecting again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 20, 2022, 10:09:47 pm
Marjorie Taylor Greene looks very, very nervous. I thought she was proud of what she did. Why would she be so reluctant to have to answer questions about it honestly?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 21, 2022, 06:24:58 am
Marjorie Taylor Greene looks very, very nervous. I thought she was proud of what she did. Why would she be so reluctant to have to answer questions about it honestly?

Link ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on April 21, 2022, 10:17:38 am
I wasn't sure Trump would be healthy enough to run in 2024, but he just did an interview with Piers Morgan and I gotta hand it to him, the big man is looking great.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQ0QslbXIAIHwA4?format=jpg&name=small)

He's approaching presidential levels of wetness not seen since William Howard Taft got stuck in a bathtub. Incredible stuff.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 22, 2022, 10:25:57 am
I wasn't sure Trump would be healthy enough to run in 2024, but he just did an interview with Piers Morgan and I gotta hand it to him, the big man is looking great.

He's approaching presidential levels of wetness not seen since William Howard Taft got stuck in a bathtub. Incredible stuff.
Jeez.... did he just open the ark of the covenant? (It does have a reputation for melting the faces of nazis.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 23, 2022, 07:43:56 pm
That's messed up that Pence wouldn't get in a car with his own secret service agents on Jan. 6. I wonder who was responsible for deactivating his key card.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on April 23, 2022, 08:52:00 pm
That's messed up that Pence wouldn't get in a car with his own secret service agents on Jan. 6. I wonder who was responsible for deactivating his key card.

Honestly, Pence getting merked by his own detail would have been the funniest possible outcome.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 23, 2022, 09:00:15 pm
It would have been hilarious, but still pretty messed up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 03, 2022, 10:02:59 pm
Anyone wonder why republicans keep complaining when they get accused of being under the control of the Russians?

From: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trumps-dhs-secretary-chad-wolf-changed-intel-report-russian-interference-2020-election/
Former Homeland Security Acting Secretary Chad Wolf changed and delayed an intelligence report detailing Russian interference in the 2020 U.S. presidential election...determined that the intelligence document should be "held" because it "made the President look bad,"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on May 03, 2022, 10:13:14 pm
Anyone wonder why republicans keep complaining when they get accused of being under the control of the Russians?

From: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trumps-dhs-secretary-chad-wolf-changed-intel-report-russian-interference-2020-election/
Former Homeland Security Acting Secretary Chad Wolf changed and delayed an intelligence report detailing Russian interference in the 2020 U.S. presidential election...determined that the intelligence document should be "held" because it "made the President look bad,"
I see the fake Russiagate stories are still being disseminated.  Russia “interfered” again in 2020?  How?  By buying some Twitter ads?  How about the whole mainstream media, as well as the FBI and CIA interfering in the election?  How about Big Tech silencing the 3rd largest news organization in America to prevent true stories about Biden and his son from damaging his campaign?  Go **** yourselves with your selective outrage on so-called election interference.  It rings hallow.  Just like your heads.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on May 03, 2022, 10:21:58 pm
Yes, we always knew you were a Putin bot. Now scurry away and try and rebuild your sense of self-worth after being so humiliated you can't stand it anymore.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 03, 2022, 10:28:58 pm
Yes, we always knew you were a Putin bot. Now scurry away and try and rebuild your sense of self-worth after being so humiliated you can't stand it anymore.
It certainly does seem to have touched a nerve with him. I guess he doesn't seem to like to be reminded that his "hero" needed Putin's help to get elected in 2016, and might have repeated that particular feat in 2020.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on May 04, 2022, 09:44:35 pm
More Kevin McCarthy recordings released today have him calling Trump's actions "atrocious and totally wrong" and agreeing with the need to use the 25th amendment but that it would take too long because Trump only had 12 days left.
He really needs to be suppoenaed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 01, 2022, 12:47:52 pm
And we now have hard proof of the evil conspiracy against Trump, thanks to the Durham investigation.

From: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/31/sussmann-acquitted-trump-special-counsel-00036033
The first courtroom test for Special Counsel John Durham ended in defeat Tuesday as a federal jury found a Democratic attorney not guilty of making a false statement to the FBI related to allegations of computer links between Donald Trump and Russia.

There you have it.

The Mueller investigation ended up with multiple convictions of various people associated with Trump (and not all "process crimes", as some of the MAGAchud seem to suggest). Not to mention a senate report (which at the time was controlled by the republicans) which indicated that Russia had indeed interferred in the election.

So the Trump admin gets Durham to investigate the investigation. All sorts of predictions from the right wing about how its going to somehow "expose" the Democrats and prove the russian activities were somehow a "hoax"..

The Durham investigation has spanned several years (longer than the Mueller investigation), and spent millions of dollars... and the first time they actually try to charge someone, and he gets found "not guilty". Bravo.

Time for the right-wing media to circle the wagons and bring up all sorts of conspiracy theories about the deep state and how somehow the jury was wrong (rather than just accept the fact that Trump was corrupt and had the backing of the Russians.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 09, 2022, 08:07:36 pm
The Jan. 6 hearing is quite entertaining. Sure exposes the Trumpers as halfwitted, gullible fascists. I can't see how it could change their minds though, because they accept being halfwitted, gullible fascists
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 17, 2022, 04:13:14 pm
I've decided I should be on the pardon list, if that's still in the works.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on June 17, 2022, 05:20:32 pm
I've decided I should be on the pardon list, if that's still in the works.

Can't help but read that in Mayor Diamond Joe Quimby voice.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 20, 2022, 10:12:34 am
It's cute that Ginny Thomas is pretending she would be willing to testify before the J6 committee, as though she wouldn't just plead the 5th for every question because she's as guilty as sin. Never going to happen. Guilty people never voluntarily incriminate themselves.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 20, 2022, 12:24:49 pm
It's cute that Ginny Thomas is pretending she would be willing to testify before the J6 committee, as though she wouldn't just plead the 5th for every question because she's as guilty as sin. Never going to happen. Guilty people never voluntarily incriminate themselves.

Should be an interesting interview.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 20, 2022, 02:02:18 pm
Would be if it were to happen. But there's no way it will.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 28, 2022, 01:11:06 pm
Hilarious testimony today about Trump in the Jan. 6 committee. Who could have guessed he was such an insane, violent toddler?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on June 28, 2022, 01:20:13 pm
Hilarious testimony today about Trump in the Jan. 6 committee. Who could have guessed he was such an insane, violent toddler?

(https://c.tenor.com/dVY3C34xQkkAAAAC/eating-popcorn.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 28, 2022, 01:28:08 pm
Cheney: "General Flynn, do you believe in the peaceful transfer of power in the United States of America?"
Flynn: "Fifth."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 28, 2022, 01:32:28 pm
Jesus what a **** show
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 28, 2022, 01:34:06 pm
You have democracy deteriorating to the level of the dumbest voter on the one side.

And the check and balance of the Supreme Court being purchased by the wealthy on the other.

Perfect.  Storm.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 28, 2022, 01:55:08 pm
You have democracy deteriorating to the level of the dumbest voter on the one side.

And the check and balance of the Supreme Court being purchased by the wealthy on the other.

Perfect.  Storm.

The SCOTUS is making decisions based on theology in many cases.  Ensuring wealth stays with the wealthy as well.  But the theocratic leanings are just as problematic, if not more so. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on June 28, 2022, 02:14:28 pm
You have democracy deteriorating to the level of the dumbest voter on the one side.

And the check and balance of the Supreme Court being purchased by the wealthy on the other.

Perfect.  Storm.

Those are on the same side.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 28, 2022, 02:21:05 pm
Those are on the same side.

Politically I agree - but in terms of system design they are supposed to provide constructive dissonance to filter the best solutions.

Instead the money folks have enslaved them to produce the worst.

Democracy - CTL ALT DEL
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 28, 2022, 03:01:40 pm
Cheney: "General Flynn, do you believe in the peaceful transfer of power in the United States of America?"
Flynn: "Fifth."

I put a "love" sticker on this comment. I meant to put a sad sticker.

Unbelievable revelations at the hearing today.  Trump needs to be in jail and so do all his cronies who participated.

Pence wasn't dumb.  He knew the legal trouble he'd be in if he overturned the EC votes.  He probably consulted with his lawyers.  It was an attempted coup.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 28, 2022, 03:18:38 pm
  It was an attempted coup.

In fact, yes, but I think there are legal and practical barriers to conviction.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 28, 2022, 04:43:50 pm
In fact, yes, but I think there are legal and practical barriers to conviction.

I dunno.  His oath of office is too uphold the constitution and he asked Pence to take a dump on it
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on June 28, 2022, 05:14:56 pm
In fact, yes, but I think there are legal and practical barriers to conviction.

The biggest one being the Dems don't wanna.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 28, 2022, 09:20:23 pm
Who could have foreseen Ginny Thomas would change her mind about testifying?
https://twitter.com/username198653/status/1541944756753661952?t=q4no2EoDw5T5wYPUUzPIXw&s=19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 12, 2022, 01:28:23 pm
There hearings are going so bad for Trump we're going to hearing a lot about Hunter Biden's laptop for the next few days.
I wonder whatever happened to the supposed secret service agent who was willing to dispute Hutchinson's account under oath. Must have got whatever Ginny got that prevented her. Lol
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 12, 2022, 02:42:23 pm
January 6th is the new Benghazi.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 12, 2022, 03:04:31 pm
That's not true. Benghazi was fake and made up, ultimately demonstrated by Hillary's lengthy testimony under oath.
Can you imagine Trump testifying under oath? Even he knows he could never do it without perjuring himself.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 12, 2022, 03:43:03 pm
January 6th is the new Benghazi.

Says the guy obsessed with Hunter's wang I mean laptop.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 12, 2022, 05:58:08 pm
It was clever of them to put Ivanka's perjury right beside her chief of staff directly contradicting her. Not surprised she's that stupid.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 12, 2022, 06:16:04 pm
I missed Ivankas perjury.

I liked the MAGA dude who wisened up.  Chosen to directly speak to the people who would relate to him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 12, 2022, 08:16:14 pm
Hilarious that she had a chief of staff though.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 12, 2022, 08:44:21 pm
Re: Ivanka.  Sounds like in a choice between Daddy's money and staying out of jail, she chose staying out of jail. #freedom
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 12, 2022, 08:46:55 pm
It is quite possible she perjured herself though, if it comes out somewhere that she supposed Trump's claims of a stolen election.

So maybe it's a choice of admitting she supported the stolen election lie and go to jail, or deny it and perjure herself and go to jail.  LOL
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 13, 2022, 11:59:20 am
In retrospect, taking the sharpie to the weather map was a clear signal he didn't have the character to ever admit he lost an election 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 13, 2022, 01:33:23 pm
Re: Ivanka.  Sounds like in a choice between Daddy's money huge debts that he is hiding and staying out of jail, she chose staying out of jail. #freedom
Fixed it for you.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 15, 2022, 07:06:36 pm
Ginny Thomas texts to Mark Meadows: "the most important thing you must remember is there are no rules in war."

All Trumpers are batshlt crazy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 16, 2022, 12:55:02 am
Ginny Thomas texts to Mark Meadows: "the most important thing you must remember is there are no rules in war."

All Trumpers are batshlt crazy.

And people like that have infiltrated the very highest levels of the American judiciary.  They think it’s a war….  a religious war where they are the holy ones with God on their side. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 08:15:40 am
Josh Hawley running like a cowardly b*tch from the mob he helped incite is the funniest thing I've seen it in a while, but not alt all surprising. All these guys are cowardly b*tches.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 08:35:56 am
And people like that have infiltrated the very highest levels of the American judiciary.  They think it’s a war….  a religious war where they are the holy ones with God on their side.
So far this show trial hasn’t provided anything in terms of illegality.  I shouldn’t call it a trial as hearsay has been permitted.  Now they say they’re going to continue into September.  How can anyone not see that this is purely political.  They think it’s going to help them in the mid term elections.  Don’t be surprised when they announce hearings for October and even November.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 08:53:01 am
So far this show trial hasn’t provided anything in terms of illegality.  I shouldn’t call it a trial as hearsay has been permitted.  Now they say they’re going to continue into September.  How can anyone not see that this is purely political.  They think it’s going to help them in the mid term elections.  Don’t be surprised when they announce hearings for October and even November.
It's not a trial. It's a hearing. I can see why you would be opposed to the truth coming out. Because you guys look like snivelling, cowardly pieces of sh1t and you can't come up with a single talking point to defend yourselves.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 09:01:15 am
It's not a trial. It's a hearing. I can see why you would be opposed to the truth coming out. Because you guys look like snivelling, cowardly pieces of sh1t and you can't come up with a single talking point to defend yourselves.
I don’t know what you mean by defending ourselves.  Have you defended yourself of the BLM riots you approved of?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 09:05:35 am
I don’t know what you mean by defending ourselves.  Have you defended yourself of the BLM riots you approved of?
I never approved of them. That was just a fake whataboutism you came up with o justify your murderous riot. But it's hard to believe a grown adult would dismiss a hearing into political crimes as being "political". Of course it's political, you dummy. And Republicans are centre-stage and the only ones talking. Notice that once you guys get under oath, suddenly you all become RINOs?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 09:22:49 am
I never approved of them. That was just a fake whataboutism you came up with o justify your murderous riot. But it's hard to believe a grown adult would dismiss a hearing into political crimes as being "political". Of course it's political, you dummy. And Republicans are centre-stage and the only ones talking. Notice that once you guys get under oath, suddenly you all become RINOs?
Because it’s all for show.  Real investigations aren’t conducted in public, in front of cameras.  It also wouldn’t require it to be dragged out over several months.  This has gone on longer than the 911 commission. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 09:37:14 am
Because it’s all for show.  Real investigations aren’t conducted in public, in front of cameras.  It also wouldn’t require it to be dragged out over several months.  This has gone on longer than the 911 commission. 😂
You're describing Benghazi, and yes the testimony from those hearings exposed it as fake. But this has resulted in the opposite. Rather than exonerate themselves through their testimony like in Benghazi, the witnesses are exposing you guys as the anti-democratic pieces of sh1t you are.
And your only defence is "but..it's in front of cameras!!!"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 22, 2022, 09:45:36 am
You're describing Benghazi, and yes the testimony from those hearings exposed it as fake. But this has resulted in the opposite. Rather than exonerate themselves through their testimony like in Benghazi, the witnesses are exposing you guys as the anti-democratic pieces of sh1t you are.
And your only defence is "but..it's in front of cameras!!!"
And lets face it... if there were no public hearings, we would probably hear the MAGAchud complain how "the congressional investigations are not valid because they're all done in private".

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 09:52:27 am
You're describing Benghazi, and yes the testimony from those hearings exposed it as fake. But this has resulted in the opposite. Rather than exonerate themselves through their testimony like in Benghazi, the witnesses are exposing you guys as the anti-democratic pieces of sh1t you are.
And your only defence is "but..it's in front of cameras!!!"
Evidence for what?  Hearsay isn’t evidence.  Lol, yes Benghazi was fake, the ambassador that was murdered didn’t really die. 😂😂😂
You guys are ridiculous clowns.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 09:53:41 am
And lets face it... if there were no public hearings, we would probably hear the MAGAchud complain how "the congressional investigations are not valid because they're all done in private".
Hearsay isn’t evidence.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 09:58:37 am
Much of it is evidence from direct witnesses, not hearsay. Is that pathetic attempt at a lie the onlly talking point they could feed you? And it's all under oath, which (unlike Hillary) Trump would never have the courage to do.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 10:06:29 am
Much of it is evidence from direct witnesses, not hearsay. Is that pathetic attempt at a lie the onlly talking point they could feed you? And it's all under oath, which (unlike Hillary) Trump would never have the courage to do.
Evidence for what? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 22, 2022, 10:07:48 am
Much of it is evidence from direct witnesses, not hearsay. Is that pathetic attempt at a lie the onlly talking point they could feed you? And it's all under oath, which (unlike Hillary) Trump would never have the courage to do.
Even more pathetic... he mischaracterizes hearsay as "not evidence", but the fact is there are multiple exceptions to the hearsay rule. Much of what was presented in the hearings WOULD be admissible in a court of law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearsay_in_United_States_law
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 10:15:43 am
Evidence for what?
Treason.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 10:16:02 am
Even more pathetic... he mischaracterizes hearsay as "not evidence", but the fact is there are multiple exceptions to the hearsay rule. Much of what was presented in the hearings WOULD be admissible in a court of law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearsay_in_United_States_law
Nope.  The type of hearsay allowed in this hearing would not be admissible.  I’d expect this type of behaviour out of the Soviet Union.  But you people should be ashamed of yourselves.  Destroying due process etc all because you hate Trump.  Disgusting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 10:17:43 am
Treason.
That has to be something tried in a court, not a show trial hearing.  Stomping all over due process because you hate Trump for the win!  Just like you people stomped all over medical privacy and body autonomy over the last 2 years.  Are there any rights you’re not willing to set aside? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 10:21:08 am
That has to be something tried in a court, not a show trial hearing.  Stomping all over due process because you hate Trump for the win!  Just like you people stomped all over medical privacy and body autonomy over the last 2 years.  Are there any rights you’re not willing to set aside?
You're not really that stupid are you? (jk. I know you are.) They refer their findings to the DOJ when they find potential criminal charges. This is what is happening.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 10:28:27 am
You're not really that stupid are you? (jk. I know you are.) They refer their findings to the DOJ when they find potential criminal charges. This is what is happening.
So how is somebody suppose to get a fair trial if hours and hours of television is being broadcast to the entire country?  Do you f**king morons think about anything, or is your hatred of Trump so severe that you just don’t care?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 22, 2022, 10:43:39 am
So far this show trial hasn’t provided anything in terms of illegality.  I shouldn’t call it a trial as hearsay has been permitted.  Now they say they’re going to continue into September.  How can anyone not see that this is purely political.  They think it’s going to help them in the mid term elections.  Don’t be surprised when they announce hearings for October and even November.

What an absolutely retarded thing to say. Of course they're political! Everything is political, including the president of the US inciting led an attack on the US government to overturn the results of a free and fair election.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 10:47:01 am
What an absolutely retarded thing to say. Of course they're political! Everything is political, including the president of the US inciting led an attack on the US government to overturn the results of a free and fair election.
Insisting that a riot can overturn election results is the most retarded thing possible.  Congratulations retard.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 10:47:45 am
So how is somebody suppose to get a fair trial if hours and hours of television is being broadcast to the entire country?  Do you f**king morons think about anything, or is your hatred of Trump so severe that you just don’t care?
Maybe their priority is to get the truth out there so that you idiots are exposed as the dangerous, gullible, anti-democratic sycophants that you are. It's been effective, considering your only rebuttal is arguing the truth shouldn't be told and the testimmony shouldn't be heard.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 10:48:48 am
Insisting that a riot can overturn election results is the most retarded thing possible.  Congratulations retard.
Actually it was Trump who insisted that, and I agree about him being retarded.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 22, 2022, 10:49:47 am
Insisting that a riot can overturn election results is the most retarded thing possible.  Congratulations retard.

Tell that to the rioters who were trying to overturn the election and the politicians who encouraged them, you halfwit loser.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 22, 2022, 10:53:46 am
Actually it was Trump who insisted that, and I agree about him being retarded.

It's abundantly clear Shiddy has no idea what the hearings are about and is just copy-and-pasting stuff from FOX news.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 11:00:27 am
Tell that to the rioters who were trying to overturn the election and the politicians who encouraged them, you halfwit loser.
How were they trying to overturn election results?  By walking around in the capital building?  Please explain how they could have overturned election results.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 11:01:17 am
It's abundantly clear Shiddy has no idea what the hearings are about and is just copy-and-pasting stuff from FOX news.
What are the hearings about?  What’s their purpose?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on July 22, 2022, 11:05:30 am
Hearsay isn’t evidence.

nor is, from January 6th, missing White House call logs, missing entries in the presidential diary and no official photos... oh and those missing Secret Service texts from January 5th and 6th

speaking of missing evidence... where is that evidence to support the TrumpBigLie... where is it Shady, hey?

a great take from U.S. Historian Heather Cox Richardson:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYRBf2XWYAEVcCh?format=jpg&name=900x900)

and the oh so funny dweeb Senator Josh Hawley (R-MO) — who raised his fist in support of the Capitol insurrectionists earlier in the day — running for his life from the rioters!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYO7AtkWYAA3MS-?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 11:09:07 am
nor is, from January 6th, missing White House call logs, missing entries in the presidential diary and no official photos... oh and those missing Secret Service texts from January 5th and 6th

speaking of missing evidence... where is that evidence to support the TrumpBigLie... where is it Shady, hey?

a great take from U.S. Historian Heather Cox Richardson:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYRBf2XWYAEVcCh?format=jpg&name=900x900)

and the oh so funny dweeb Senator Josh Hawley (R-MO) — who raised his fist in support of the Capitol insurrectionists earlier in the day — running for his life from the rioters!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYO7AtkWYAA3MS-?format=jpg&name=900x900)
And???
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 11:09:18 am
How were they trying to overturn election results?  By walking around in the capital building?  Please explain how they could have overturned election results.
You should really pay attention to something other than your Trumper blogs and FoxNews. The plan, including installing fake electors and pressuring Pence to recognize them, is fully laid out in the hearings you think shouldn't exist.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 11:10:53 am
You should really pay attention to something other than your Trumper blogs and FoxNews. The plan, including installing fake electors and pressuing Pence to recognize them, is fully laid out in the hearings you think shouldn't exist.
They were going to install fake electors at the capital building?  Electors aren’t at the capital building.  How were they going to overturn election results on January 6th at the capital?  Please explain.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 11:26:07 am
They were going to install fake electors at the capital building?  Electors aren’t at the capital building.  How were they going to overturn election results on January 6th at the capital?  Please explain.
This is what happens when you limit your information sources to people who think you're a gullible idiot who can be easily manipulated. Congress was meeting on Jan. 6 to certify the election results. Trump wanted Pence to reject the legitimate electors and install fake ones instead. When he refused, Trump thought a riot would scare him into complying or at least stall the process until he could get someone installed who would.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 11:32:45 am
This is what happens when you limit your information sources to people who think you're a gullible idiot who can be easily manipulated. Congress was meeting on Jan. 6 to certify the election results. Trump wanted Pence to reject the legitimate electors and install fake ones instead. When he refused, Trump thought a riot would scare him into complying or at least stall the process until he could get someone installed who would.
But the protest was planned days ahead.  And delaying certifying results doesn’t overturn an election.  You people are insane.  Get professional help.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 22, 2022, 11:35:06 am
How were they trying to overturn election results?  By walking around in the capital building?  Please explain how they could have overturned election results.

Again, you'd have to ask them since it was why they were there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 11:40:38 am
Again, you'd have to ask them since it was why they were there.
So you finally admit that the election couldn’t have been overturned.  See how easy that was?  So this whole insurrection stuff is complete and utter bullsh*t.  It was a protest that turned into a riot.  And a handful of people, who were unarmed, became violent.  I fully support them being charged for trespassing and assault.  The rest of this theatre is complete insanity.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 11:40:45 am
But the protest was planned days ahead.  And delaying certifying results doesn’t overturn an election.  You people are insane.  Get professional help.
Yes, the guy you worship was insane to try it. That's true. Doesn't stop you from worshipping him though for some reason.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 22, 2022, 11:47:20 am
So you finally admit that the election couldn’t have been overturned.  See how easy that was?  So this whole insurrection stuff is complete and utter bullsh*t.  It was a protest that turned into a riot.  And a handful of people, who were unarmed, became violent.  I fully support them being charged for trespassing and assault.  The rest of this theatre is complete insanity.

Whether the election could have been overturned by violent means or not is irrelevant to the fact that there was an attempt to do so, you chuckleheaded dingbat.

You're also conflating two separate but related things: the violent insurrection in the capitol and Trump's attempts to undermine and overturn the election results. You really are completely at sea here, it's pathetic.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 11:58:20 am
So you finally admit that the election couldn’t have been overturned.  See how easy that was?  So this whole insurrection stuff is complete and utter bullsh*t.  It was a protest that turned into a riot.  And a handful of people, who were unarmed, became violent.  I fully support them being charged for trespassing and assault.  The rest of this theatre is complete insanity.
There would have been a constitutional crisis if Mike Pence didn't suddenly grow a pair. But it's not like they even made a secret of their intentions. It must be difficult, given the openness of their strategy, for you to stick your head in the sand so deeply to try and pretend nothing happened. The self-respect is the first thing to go when you're a Trumper.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 22, 2022, 12:11:15 pm
And a handful of people

(https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2021/01/15/rally_custom-495a21d15fee7ea29ecaef6c28eacb3aca6af166.jpg)


Quote
who were unarmed

Quote
in April, 72-year-old Lonnie Coffman of Falkville, Alabama, was sentenced to four years in prison for bringing loaded guns, ammunition and Molotov cocktail ingredients to Washington on Jan. 6.

The weapons were found in his truck—parked less than half a mile from the Capitol building—which he left to attend a rally at the National Mall. A statement by the Department of Justice said Coffman "also carried a loaded handgun and a loaded revolver as he walked around the area that day."In March 2022, 49-year-old Texan Guy Reffitt, was convicted (among other charges) for being unlawfully present on Capitol grounds while possessing a firearm and transporting firearms during civil disorder.

A Department of Justice indictment from January 2021 also states that Christopher Alberts, Maryland, was found carrying a Taurus G2C semi-automatic handgun on Capitol grounds on January 6.

Off-duty Drug Enforcement Administration agent Mark Sami Ibrahim, 32, was also indicted by a grand jury for bringing a firearm within the United States Capitol and its grounds.

In an article for Newsweek, Nick Suplina and Justin Wagner of Everytown for Gun Safety said they had identified "12 individuals allegedly tied to the events of Jan. 6 who were arrested in Washington, D.C., and charged with firearms offenses."

LINK (https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-were-there-armed-protesters-capitol-january-6-1715326)


Quote
In the wake of the Jan. 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, a popular narrative has emerged: that because rioters did not fire guns that day, they were not really "armed."

But a review of the federal charges against the alleged rioters shows that they did come armed, and with a variety of weapons: stun guns, pepper spray, baseball bats and flagpoles wielded as clubs. An additional suspect also allegedly planted pipe bombs by the headquarters of the Democratic and Republican parties the night before the riot and remains at large.
...
Federal court records, included in NPR's database of more than 300 criminal cases, allege that at least three dozen people who took part in the riot used or possessed some kind of weapon that day.

This number is likely a low estimate of the total number of weapons that rioters brought with them. As the Justice Department has noted in court filings, "no crowd member submitted to security screenings or weapons checks by Capitol Police or other authorized security officials." Most of the people who stormed the Capitol were not arrested during the riot itself. Many are still at large.

LINK (https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters-were-armed-here-are-the-weapons-prosecutors-say-they-used)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 12:50:33 pm
Whether the election could have been overturned by violent means or not is irrelevant to the fact that there was an attempt to do so, you chuckleheaded dingbat.

You're also conflating two separate but related things: the violent insurrection in the capitol and Trump's attempts to undermine and overturn the election results. You really are completely at sea here, it's pathetic.
There was an attempt to do something not possible?  With a group of unarmed protesters?  Huh?  Get professional help.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 12:53:00 pm
(https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2021/01/15/rally_custom-495a21d15fee7ea29ecaef6c28eacb3aca6af166.jpg)


LINK (https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-were-there-armed-protesters-capitol-january-6-1715326)


LINK (https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters-were-armed-here-are-the-weapons-prosecutors-say-they-used)
Yes, a handful of people.  Check the number of people charged with assault.  You don’t even ha e to take my word for it.
Yes, weapons that were not on scene and not part of the riot, aka unarmed.  Try harder.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 12:55:03 pm
There would have been a constitutional crisis if Mike Pence didn't suddenly grow a pair. But it's not like they even made a secret of their intentions. It must be difficult, given the openness of their strategy, for you to stick your head in the sand so deeply to try and pretend nothing happened. The self-respect is the first thing to go when you're a Trumper.
Would there have been a constitutional crisis when Democrats refused to certify election results in 2016?  If Biden hadn’t have grown a pair?  Just wondering.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 01:03:46 pm
There is even testimony under oath that Trump knew they were armed and shut down the weapons screening because attendance at his rally would look pathetic if they didn't allow the people with guns in. Testimony from Republican Trumpers. People who were like you but not as craven.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 22, 2022, 01:04:06 pm
There was an attempt to do something not possible?  With a group of unarmed protesters?  Huh?  Get professional help.

You are genuinely the stupidest human being I have ever encountered. Basic logic is completely confounding to you, it's incredible. The rioters believed they could overturn the election, that's really all that matters.

Yes, a handful of people.  Check the number of people charged with assault.  You don’t even ha e to take my word for it.

You know there's video of the day showing hundreds of people participating in the violence and that not everyone who was violent was caught and charged, right?


link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXnHIJkZZAs)
Quote
Yes, weapons that were not on scene and not part of the riot, aka unarmed.  Try harder.

I literally posted names of people charged with carrying guns on the Capitol grounds, you drooling choad.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 01:13:05 pm
Would there have been a constitutional crisis when Democrats refused to certify election results in 2016?  If Biden hadn’t have grown a pair?  Just wondering.
Of course. But that didn't happen. Will you silently accept her authority if Kamala decides not to certify Repulican wins in the next election and certifies her own slate of electors instead?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 01:19:02 pm
There is even testimony under oath that Trump knew they were armed and shut down the weapons screening because attendance at his rally would look pathetic if they didn't allow the people with guns in. Testimony from Republican Trumpers. People who were like you but not as craven.
Complete and utter nonsense.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 22, 2022, 01:20:50 pm
Complete and utter nonsense.

This is what you always say when you've been owned into submission.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 22, 2022, 01:22:00 pm
You know there's video of the day showing hundreds of people participating in the violence and that not everyone who was violent was caught and charged, right?
And I am sure the 100+ police officers that were injured by the crowds during the terrorist attack will be glad to hear that they weren't injured due to violence.

From: https://www.police1.com/officer-safety/articles/police-union-over-140-officers-injured-in-capitol-siege-NSi5xcpt1sIELYvJ/
...140 officers were injured in the violent siege...police officers suffered concussions, swollen ankles and wrists, bruises, and irritated lungs from pepper spray. Officers were pushed down stairs, trampled and punched.

It must have all been the officer's fault though... after all, if they just allowed the mob free reign to hang Pence (and kill any other politicians they came across) then there would have been no problem.
Quote
I literally posted names of people charged with carrying guns on the Capitol grounds, you drooling choad.
Maybe they were the mythical "good guys with a gun" who were looking for "bad guys with a gun" to shoot.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 22, 2022, 01:25:13 pm
And I am sure the 100+ police officers that were injured by the crowds during the terrorist attack will be glad to hear that they weren't injured due to violence.

From: https://www.police1.com/officer-safety/articles/police-union-over-140-officers-injured-in-capitol-siege-NSi5xcpt1sIELYvJ/
...140 officers were injured in the violent siege...police officers suffered concussions, swollen ankles and wrists, bruises, and irritated lungs from pepper spray. Officers were pushed down stairs, trampled and punched.

It must have all been the officer's fault though... after all, if they just allowed the mob free reign to hang Pence (and kill any other politicians they came across) then there would have been no problem.

Look if no one got charged how can we be sure that it actually happened?

Quote
Maybe they were the mythical "good guys with a gun" who were looking for "bad guys with a gun" to shoot.

That reminds me of when Shiddy said the only person who was killed was "an unarmed woman walking around the capital building (https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/general-discussion/defund-the-police/msg84313/#msg84313)" in reference to the Q-brained doofus who got ventilated trying to climb through the doors leading to the Chamber of the U.S. House of Representatives.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 01:25:47 pm
This is what you always say when you've been owned into submission.
No, it's what I say when something is categorically untrue.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 01:27:20 pm
You are genuinely the stupidest human being I have ever encountered. Basic logic is completely confounding to you, it's incredible. The rioters believed they could overturn the election, that's really all that matters.

You know there's video of the day showing hundreds of people participating in the violence and that not everyone who was violent was caught and charged, right?


link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXnHIJkZZAs)
I literally posted names of people charged with carrying guns on the Capitol grounds, you drooling choad.
The entire protest was 300-400 people.  To claim that hundreds of people were participating in violence is just another lie.  Regardless, I've already stated, anyone that was violent should be prosecuted.  Just stop pretending it was a coup.  You people are insane.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 22, 2022, 01:32:42 pm
The entire protest was 300-400 people.  To claim that hundreds of people were participating in violence is just another lie. 

Yet somehow more than 800 people are facing charges (https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-capitol-pro-trump-riot-arrests-charges-names-2021-1) as a result.

It's amazing you would lie about something so easily disproven, but you've never been big on self-awareness.

Quote
Regardless, I've already stated, anyone that was violent should be prosecuted. 

And that's why you're minimizing the extent of the violence and dismissing the intentions of the rioters? ok dude, sure.

Quote
Just stop pretending it was a coup.  You people are insane.

It wasn't a coup. It was an unsuccessful coup attempt.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 22, 2022, 01:38:51 pm
Quote
Just stop pretending it was a coup.  You people are insane.
It wasn't a coup. It was an unsuccessful coup attempt.
Reminds me of that famous line from the Simpsons...

Sideshow Bob: I am presently incarcerated, imprisoned for a crime I did not even commit. "Attempted murder," now honestly, did they ever give anyone a Nobel prize for "attempted chemistry?"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on July 22, 2022, 01:48:19 pm
The entire protest was 300-400 people.  To claim that hundreds of people were participating in violence is just another lie.

estimates of between 2000-to-2500 "patriots" entered the Capital building... as of July 19 (just days ago) at least... at least 882 insurrectionists have been charged.

(https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2022/06/FullEpisode-3-1024x683.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 22, 2022, 01:57:43 pm
Quote
The entire protest was 300-400 people.
estimates of between 2000-to-2500 "patriots" entered the Capital building... as of July 19 (just days ago) at least... at least 882 insurrectionists have been charged.
And not only that... As of 3 days ago, 329 have already plead guilty. i.e. not just "accused of being there", but people who actually admitted in court to participating.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 02:01:51 pm
estimates of between 2000-to-2500 "patriots" entered the Capital building... as of July 19 (just days ago) at least... at least 882 insurrectionists have been charged.
And not only that... As of 3 days ago, 329 have already plead guilty. i.e. not just "accused of being there", but people who actually admitted in court to participating.
Yes, lots of people have been charged with trespassing.  Many have pled guilty.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 02:03:35 pm
Yet somehow more than 800 people are facing charges (https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-capitol-pro-trump-riot-arrests-charges-names-2021-1) as a result.

It's amazing you would lie about something so easily disproven, but you've never been big on self-awareness.

And that's why you're minimizing the extent of the violence and dismissing the intentions of the rioters? ok dude, sure.

It wasn't a coup. It was an unsuccessful coup attempt.
Yes, many have been charged.....with trespassing.  I'm not minimizing anything.  But I'm not going to go along with bat **** crazy ideas like insurrection for people that were literally just walking around the capital building.  Btw, have they looked into why the police opened the capital doors for the protesters?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on July 22, 2022, 02:18:44 pm
I'm not minimizing anything.

ya ya, as you emphasize 'trespassing', hey!

Quote
Hundreds of people who went inside but didn’t take part in any destruction or violence are facing only misdemeanor crimes like picketing in the Capitol and disorderly conduct that call for up to six months behind bars.

More than 250 people have been charged with assaulting or impeding law enforcement who were trying to protect the Capitol, including more than 85 accused of using a deadly or dangerous weapon or causing serious bodily injury to an officer. Others have been accused of assaulting members of the media, including one Associated Press photographer, or destroying media equipment.

The most serious cases have been brought against members of two far-right extremist groups, the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys.

The leaders of both groups have been arrested and remain locked up while they await trial later this year for seditious conspiracy, which alleges a plot to forcibly oppose the lawful transfer of presidential power.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 02:20:51 pm


That reminds me of when Shiddy said the only person who was killed was "an unarmed woman walking around the capital building (https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/general-discussion/defund-the-police/msg84313/#msg84313)" in reference to the Q-brained doofus who got ventilated trying to climb through the doors leading to the Chamber of the U.S. House of Representatives.
Who could forget the woman who was trampled to death while draped in a "Don't Tread on Me" flag?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 22, 2022, 02:22:49 pm
Who could forget the woman who was trampled to death while draped in a "Don't Tread on Me" flag?
Maybe its because the MAGAchud who follow Trump don't know how to read?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 22, 2022, 02:30:02 pm
A little good news to brighten you're weekend.....

Remember Steve Bannon? (Who was charged with scamming people over building the border wall, but was pardoned by Trump...)

Bannon has been convicted!

From: https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/prosecutors-set-urge-conviction-trump-ex-adviser-bannon-2022-07-22/
Steve Bannon, a key associate of former President Donald Trump and an influential figure on the American right, was convicted on Friday of contempt of Congress for defying a subpoena from the committee investigating last year's attack

Pretty open-and-shut case... took less than a week from jury selection to conviction. Only 2 witnesses called (both for the prosecution). Bannon didn't really have much of a defense... he might have tried to claim 'executive privilege' but since he wasn't a member of the executive at the time the judge disallowed it. His lawyers tried to claim the dates on the subpoena were "flexible", but given the fact that he was shooting his mouth off about how he was going to ignore the subpoena, I doubt that defense would have been successful.

Hopefully Navarro (another Trump toady who ignored a subpoena) has similar luck.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 02:47:16 pm
A little good news to brighten you're weekend.....

Remember Steve Bannon? (Who was charged with scamming people over building the border wall, but was pardoned by Trump...)

Bannon has been convicted!

From: https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/prosecutors-set-urge-conviction-trump-ex-adviser-bannon-2022-07-22/
Steve Bannon, a key associate of former President Donald Trump and an influential figure on the American right, was convicted on Friday of contempt of Congress for defying a subpoena from the committee investigating last year's attack

Pretty open-and-shut case... took less than a week from jury selection to conviction. Only 2 witnesses called (both for the prosecution). Bannon didn't really have much of a defense... he might have tried to claim 'executive privilege' but since he wasn't a member of the executive at the time the judge disallowed it. His lawyers tried to claim the dates on the subpoena were "flexible", but given the fact that he was shooting his mouth off about how he was going to ignore the subpoena, I doubt that defense would have been successful.

Hopefully Navarro (another Trump toady who ignored a subpoena) has similar luck.
Yes, of contempt of court because he won't show up to participate in the show trial. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 02:48:54 pm
Who could forget the woman who was trampled to death while draped in a "Don't Tread on Me" flag?
A BLM protester has been convicted of killing a police officer in 2020.  Which January 6th protesters have been convicted of killing anyone?  Which protesters have even been charged?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 02:49:41 pm
ya ya, as you emphasize 'trespassing', hey!
I emphasize the charge against 99% of the protesters.  Why do you ignore it?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 02:53:20 pm
A BLM protester has been convicted of killing a police officer in 2020. 
You mean that guy who was robbing a store...but was Black, so your KKK blogs jumped on that?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 02:56:18 pm
Yes, of contempt of court because he won't show up to participate in the show trial.
Exactly. White supremacists are often surprised when they find the law applies to them too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 03:03:59 pm
You mean that guy who was robbing a store...but was Black, so your KKK blogs jumped on that?
Yes, the BLM protester that was robbing a store and killed a police officer during one of their riots.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 03:07:10 pm
Exactly. White supremacists are often surprised when they find the law applies to them too.
Weird how being contempt of congress is a crime for Trump administration officials, but not Obama administration officials.

It's almost as though there are two sets of standards.  One for the ruling class elites, and one for everybody else.

No criminal prosecution of Holder for contempt
https://www.cnn.com/2012/06/29/politics/holder-contempt/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 03:15:38 pm
Yes, the BLM protester that was robbing a store and killed a police officer during one of their riots.
But he wasn't a BLM protester. He was just Black. The only source that says he was a BLM protester are your KKK blogs. That's why you are scared to cite.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 03:17:21 pm
Weird how being contempt of congress is a crime for Trump administration officials, but not Obama administration officials.

It's almost as though there are two sets of standards.  One for the ruling class elites, and one for everybody else.

No criminal prosecution of Holder for contempt
https://www.cnn.com/2012/06/29/politics/holder-contempt/index.html
Or one for legitimate cases of executive privilege and one for pretend ones.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 22, 2022, 03:23:44 pm
Yes, many have been charged.....with trespassing.  I'm not minimizing anything.  But I'm not going to go along with bat **** crazy ideas like insurrection for people that were literally just walking around the capital building.  Btw, have they looked into why the police opened the capital doors for the protesters?

You said "the entire protest was 300-400 people."  LOL what a chucklefuck.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 22, 2022, 03:28:40 pm
Yes, the BLM protester that was robbing a store and killed a police officer during one of their riots.

Got any evidence he was a BLM protester? Of course you don't.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 03:28:44 pm
Or one for legitimate cases of executive privilege and one for pretend ones.
LOL!  Yes, it's legitimate to use executive privilege when it's a Democrat that doesn't comply with a subpoena.  Classic!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 03:30:28 pm
Got any evidence he was a BLM protester? Of course you don't.
He was present at the BLM riots.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 03:31:25 pm
But he wasn't a BLM protester. He was just Black. The only source that says he was a BLM protester are your KKK blogs. That's why you are scared to cite.
Yes he was, he participated in the BLM riot/protest.  How many January 6th protesters have been convicted of murder?  How many have even been charged?  The answer is ZERO.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 22, 2022, 03:33:18 pm
He was present at the BLM riots.

So was the guy who got shot, was he a protester too?

Yes he was, he participated in the BLM riot/protest.  How many January 6th protesters have been convicted of murder?  How many have even been charged?  The answer is ZERO.

Shiddy logic: if you're in the vicinity of a protest you are part of that protest but if you're in the vicinity of a riot at the Capitol, you're just an innocent bystander walking around taking in the sights.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 03:33:34 pm
He was present at the BLM riots.
It's hilarious how you refuse to source your information. It shows how, deep down, you know you're being lied to.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 22, 2022, 03:35:10 pm
It's hilarious how you refuse to source your information. It shows how, deep down, you know you're being lied to.

He knows he's lying and he knows we know he's lying but he lies anyway because this website is the only attention he gets.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 03:35:30 pm
LOL!  Yes, it's legitimate to use executive privilege when it's a Democrat that doesn't comply with a subpoena.  Classic!
Private citizens can't declare executive privilege. But you can try discrediting the justice system as a distraction from that fact I guess.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 03:36:25 pm
So was the guy who got shot, was he a protester too?

Shiddy logic: if you're in the vicinity of a protest you are part of that protest but if you're in the vicinity of a riot at the Capitol, you're just an innocent bystander walking around taking in the sights.
I'm applying the same standard to BLM as I am to the capital riot.  Do you have evidence that he wasn't participating or at the riot in St. Louis?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 03:36:50 pm
Private citizens can't declare executive privilege. But you can try discrediting the justice system as a distraction from that fact I guess.
He's a Trump administration official.  Yes he can.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 03:37:52 pm
He knows he's lying and he knows we know he's lying but he lies anyway because this website is the only attention he gets.
I'm lying how?  A person that was present at a BLM protest, ends up looting a store and killing a cop.  Stop trying to minimize it. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 22, 2022, 03:43:20 pm
I'm applying the same standard to BLM as I am to the capital riot. Do you have evidence that he wasn't participating or at the riot in St. Louis?

Do you have brain damage?

Quote
Yes, many have been charged.....with trespassing.  I'm not minimizing anything.  But I'm not going to go along with bat **** crazy ideas like insurrection for people that were literally just walking around the capital building.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 22, 2022, 03:44:05 pm
I'm lying how? A person that was present at a BLM protest, ends up looting a store and killing a cop.  Stop trying to minimize it.

Where's the evidence this guy was at a protest?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 03:46:15 pm
Do you have brain damage?
But I've never said that.  That's your ridiculous straw man, not mine.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 03:47:30 pm
Where's the evidence this guy was at a protest?
Because he killed the police officer, who was at the protest.  Are you brain dead?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 22, 2022, 03:47:53 pm
But I've never said that.  That's your ridiculous straw man, not mine.

I've never seen someone get confused into incoherence by their own bullsh*t before. Good job.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 22, 2022, 03:49:47 pm
Because he killed the police officer, who was at the protest.  Are you brain dead?

Oh I see, you're being a retard and pretending the riot and protest are the same thing. That would be like me saying everyone who was at the Trump rally on January 6 was involved in the attack on the Capitol.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 03:55:17 pm
Oh I see, you're being a retard and pretending the riot and protest are the same thing. That would be like me saying everyone who was at the Trump rally on January 6 was involved in the attack on the Capitol.
No, it would be like saying that everyone at the capital, was involved in the riot at the capital.  They weren't.  Some people never went into the building.  Some stayed outside.  Some even stayed by the barriers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 03:55:50 pm
I've never seen someone get confused into incoherence by their own bullsh*t before. Good job.
I think that's you.  I certainly never said anything you're claiming I said.  Stop with your straw men.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 22, 2022, 04:00:55 pm
No, it would be like saying that everyone at the capital, was involved in the riot at the capital.  They weren't.  Some people never went into the building.  Some stayed outside.  Some even stayed by the barriers.

No, it's like what I said. The BLM Floyd protests were miles away from were this shooting occurred.

I think that's you.  I certainly never said anything you're claiming I said.  Stop with your straw men.

I literally quoted you, dunderhead.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 04:31:17 pm
He's a Trump administration official.  Yes he can.
He was already "fired." He was a private citizen.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 07:06:21 pm
Shazam! 😂

DOJ: No contempt charges for former IRS official Lerner
https://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/lois-lerner-no-contempt-charges-justice-department-116577?_amp=true
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 07:08:56 pm
Politicizing the justice system is about the worse thing you can do, and a great way to destroy a country.  But I’m you people don’t care.  You’ll cheer on burning down the United States if it means “getting” Trump.  Just like you did with medical privacy and body autonomy. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 22, 2022, 07:13:30 pm
Btw, these “hearings” of a show trial won’t allow for cross examination of witnesses, and have allowed anonymous witnesses to “testify”.  #ShowTrial

Hopefully the Republicans do the exact same thing with hearings into Hunter Biden, just to make a point. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 07:19:15 pm
Politicizing the justice system is about the worse thing you can do, and a great way to destroy a country.  But I’m you people don’t care.  .
Did you catch Bill Barr's testimony? He accused Trump, while under oath, of what you consider the worst thing you can do and then resigned. Must be pretty embarrassing for you
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 22, 2022, 07:21:57 pm
Btw, these “hearings” of a show trial won’t allow for cross examination of witnesses, and have allowed anonymous witnesses to “testify”.  #ShowTrial

Hopefully the Republicans do the exact same thing with hearings into Hunter Biden, just to make a point.
The Republicans could have taken part but opted not to when they couldn't include their implicated members. Bad decision on their part.
But it's not a trial. It's a hearing. Big difference.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on July 23, 2022, 12:37:06 pm
Politicizing the justice system is about the worse thing you can do, and a great way to destroy a country.  But I’m you people don’t care.  You’ll cheer on burning down the United States if it means “getting” Trump.  Just like you did with medical privacy and body autonomy.

The justice system has always been politicized you dolt.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on July 23, 2022, 11:35:25 pm
the Rupert Murdoch worm has clearly turned. Over recent weeks many have noted/commented on a shift at Fox News where outright criticism of Trump is beginning to be presented - nothing was clearer than when Fox News ignored Trumps recent days Arizona rally, opting instead at the same time to present a live interview with Florida's Governor DeSantis.

and now editorials from 2 of Murdoch's newspapers:
=> the New York Post headline - Trump’s silence on Jan. 6 is damning
Quote
To his eternal shame, as appalled aides implored him to publicly call on his followers to go home, he instead further fanned the flames by tweeting: “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution.”

His only focus was to find any means — damn the consequences — to block the peaceful transfer of power.

There is no other explanation, just as there is no defense, for his refusal to stop the violence.

It’s up to the Justice Department to decide if this is a crime. But as a matter of principle, as a matter of character, Trump has proven himself unworthy to be this country’s chief executive again.

=> the Wall Street Journal headline - The President Who Stood Still on Jan. 6 --- Even as the riot raged at the Capitol, Trump wouldn’t tell his supporters to stop.
Quote
Character is revealed in a crisis, and Mr. Pence passed his Jan. 6 trial. Mr. Trump utterly failed his.



Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 24, 2022, 05:12:42 am
Also a recent 'man on the street ' segment, where they asked Trump supporters who they're supporting in 2024.  And most said it's time to move on...

Of course those pieces can be edited to say anything.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 24, 2022, 08:35:33 am
Real Trumpers will double-down on him though because they're really that stupid.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 24, 2022, 08:55:36 am
Democracy is failing.

And it's because the Sea of democracy did not take care to cultivate it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 25, 2022, 11:34:32 pm
Also a recent 'man on the street ' segment, where they asked Trump supporters who they're supporting in 2024.  And most said it's time to move on...
Yeah but unfortunately most of them will still say they will support Trump if he becomes the nominee. (So you have to wonder if they want to "move on" from Trump because they think he would be a bad president or simply because they don't think he's electable.)

I suspect the same thing might happen in 2024 as happened in 2016... A crowded "Clown-car" field of Republican candidates... Trump wins earlier primaries because even though most vote for someone else, he's still the most popular... candidates drop out but there is no single candidate that people can rally around to stop Trump. Trump becomes the nominee again.

And if he does manage to win the presidency in 2024, the moment he is out of office in 2028 you will here all sorts of republicans complain how they "really didn't want Trump", or "We tried to be the adults in the room", or "We didn't realize it could get that bad until the end".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 03, 2022, 10:38:04 am
FAFO

Quote
A Texas man who joined the US Capitol riot armed with a holstered pistol and threatened his own son to keep quiet about his role has been sentenced to more than seven years in prison.

Guy Reffitt, 49, was found guilty in March on five felony counts, including obstruction of an official proceeding and interfering with police in a riot.

 link
 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62382492)
TFW you get seven years in the clink for listening to Donald Trump:

(https://i.insider.com/6222589ddcce010019a6dd4e?width=700)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 03, 2022, 10:57:44 am
FAFO

 link
 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62382492)
TFW you get seven years in the clink for listening to Donald Trump:

(https://i.insider.com/6222589ddcce010019a6dd4e?width=700)
I wonder how many years the Kavanaugh assassin will get for listening to Democrats.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 03, 2022, 11:46:31 am
I wonder how many years the Kavanaugh assassin will get for listening to Democrats.

Why are you people such a bunch of pu$$ies?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 03, 2022, 11:47:02 am
In my day, people understood the meaning of words well enough to know you had to assassinate someone to be an assassin.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 04, 2022, 12:17:53 pm
while hosting the Saudi-backed LIV Golf tournament at his Bedminster NJ course - I'm melting my pretties!

(https://i.imgur.com/eq0hzs1.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 04, 2022, 12:22:17 pm
while hosting the Saudi-backed LIV Golf tournament at his Bedminster NJ course - I'm melting my pretties!

(https://i.imgur.com/eq0hzs1.gif)
Hopefully he retires.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 04, 2022, 04:48:37 pm
former U.S. VP Dick Cheney... ad for daughter Liz Cheney:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro8rkZ4HQZQ
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 04, 2022, 06:22:00 pm
Ten years ago, I don't think I would have believed that lying war criminal Dick Cheney would be the rare good Republican who still had some ethics and values.  He's still a lying war criminal, but he isn't a total POS.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 08, 2022, 08:29:20 pm
Is it my birthday already?

From: https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/trump-says-fbi-is-conducting-search-of-his-mar-a-lago-estate-1.6019160
Former U.S. President Donald Trump said in a lengthy statement Monday that the FBI was conducting a search of his Mar-a-Lago estate and asserted that agents had broken open a safe. A person familiar with the matter said the action was related to a probe of whether Trump had taken classified records from his White House tenure to his Florida residence....agents were also looking to see if Trump had additional presidential records or any classified documents at the estate.

Have to admit, with all the legal issues facing Trump (Jan6 terrorist attacks, Georgia election interference, NY real estate and tax fraud cases), I wasn't expecting this to re-surface.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 08, 2022, 08:31:27 pm
They would need some kind of reasonable grounds to think he's taken some classified records in order to get a warrant.  Interesting.  I hope they find all sorts of incriminating stuff.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 08, 2022, 08:44:35 pm
They would need some kind of reasonable grounds to think he's taken some classified records in order to get a warrant.  Interesting.  I hope they find all sorts of incriminating stuff.
Actually they already recovered Classified documents from Mar a Lago back in February of this year.

From: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-records-classified-information-1.6352670
Classified information was found in the 15 boxes of White House records that were stored at former U.S. president Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago residence in Florida, the National Archives and Records Administration said Friday in a letter that confirmed the matter has been referred to the Justice Department.

This appears to be an investigation into either how the stuff got there in the first place, or whether anything else was taken.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 08, 2022, 09:44:27 pm
Joe Biden has officially turned the United States into a third world banana republic.  Unequal application of the law directed toward the political opposition is as bad as it gets.  These people are literally burning down the country in pursuit of their white whale.  This will not lead to good things.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 08, 2022, 09:59:09 pm
Joe Biden has officially turned the United States into a third world banana republic.  Unequal application of the law directed toward the political opposition is as bad as it gets.  These people are literally burning down the country in pursuit of their white whale.  This will not lead to good things.

Lock him up
Lock him up
Lock him up
Lock him up
Lock him up
Lock him up
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 08, 2022, 11:20:39 pm
Makes you wonder what was on Alex Jones' phone, other than **** pictures of his wife sent to Roger Stone.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 08, 2022, 11:25:24 pm
Joe Biden has officially turned the United States into a third world banana republic.  Unequal application of the law directed toward the political opposition is as bad as it gets.  These people are literally burning down the country in pursuit of their white whale.  This will not lead to good things.

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/349/392/2a3.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 08, 2022, 11:26:58 pm
Joe Biden has officially turned the United States into a third world banana republic.  Unequal application of the law directed toward the political opposition is as bad as it gets.  These people are literally burning down the country in pursuit of their white whale.  This will not lead to good things.

(https://assets.teenvogue.com/photos/62f16543df403d968385a3ef/16:9/w_2560%2Cc_limit/FZlSG30XEAI1nJa.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 09, 2022, 12:12:41 am
Unequal application of the law directed toward the political opposition is as bad as it gets. 

bad as it gets? Shady, is this bad... as it gets?

(https://i.imgur.com/yzmQang.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 09, 2022, 01:21:20 am
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/349/392/2a3.jpg)
I don't think that's a proper comparison. After all, the republicans and democrats have different approaches to things.

Republicans:
- accuse Democrats of a crime that hasn't actually occurred, and for which no evidence actually exists. (Uranium 1! Hunter Biden's Laptop!)
- Bleat on endlessly about it ("Lock her up!" chants anyone?)
- Fail to make an arrest because, you know, the whole "no crime actually occurred" thing.

Democrats:
- Find actual crimes by the republicans.
- Often fail to follow up on said crimes
- Attempt to deal with crimes through the justice system

Of course, republicans squeal about it like a chipmunk caught in a wood chipper, but the fact is, Republicans are facing more legal issues because they are committing more crimes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 09, 2022, 01:29:24 am
I have to admit, I did nazi that coming.... (Get it? Nazi? Not see?)

From: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/08/trump-praised-german-generals-loyalty-to-hitler.html
Donald Trump complained to then-White House Chief of Staff John Kelly that American generals were not as loyal to him as he believed German generals had been to Nazi leader Adolf Hitler....
...
“You do know that they tried to kill Hitler three times and almost pulled it off?” Kelly said...Trump then said, “No, no, no, they were totally loyal to him,” the excerpt said.


Of course, if it were any other president the story would seem far fetched. But given Trump's general ignorance  (Two Corinthians anyone?), ego, and love of the far right (remember "neo-nazis are fine people") the story sounds extremely likely.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 09, 2022, 07:20:23 am
I wonder what evidence shady has that Biden wasinvolved, considering the FBI director was hand-picked by Trump. I suspect he knows nothing about the process of getting a warrant and is just crying because he thinks selling classified information to enemy governments is okay if a Republican does it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 09, 2022, 09:18:19 am
I think the big question now is... what did the FBI find in Donald Trump's safe?

I think we have it narrowed down to:

- Obama's nigerian birth certificate
- 4 of hunter biden's laptops
- Hillary's email
- Mike Pence's testicles (Not like he needs them, given the way he reacted following the Jan6 terrorist attack)
- The actual pee tape
- A bottle of Giuliani's hair dye
- Trump's unreleased tax returns that he promised he would release in the 2016 election
- A half-eaten cheeseburger
- unclothed photos of himself to send to Ronnie Jackson, who apparently liked looking at Trump's body.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 09, 2022, 09:47:24 am
Trumpers should ask themselves why he hasn't released the warrant the FBI served him, which explains their case. If it were without merit, he could make a case that it's like a "banaba republic" and people would listen---not just the half-retarded cultheads that will just scream "banana republic" with no evidence like mindless Putin-bots.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 09, 2022, 12:46:20 pm
Trump 'victim' statement:

(https://i.imgur.com/vanXLLj.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 09, 2022, 01:35:08 pm
Trump 'victim' statement:

(https://i.imgur.com/vanXLLj.gif)

lol Jesus Christ.

Imagine the brain rot in thinking a raid conducted by law enforcement enforcing a legal warrant is the same as illicit break-in carried out by partisan political operatives.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 09, 2022, 01:48:17 pm
The big GOP talking point going around on this is "If the FBI can raid Trump, imagine what they can do to you!" which, along with their freak out over the hiring of 87,000 new IRS agents, really lays bare the fact that they think laws are for other people.

"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 09, 2022, 01:54:30 pm
"Anyone being investigated by the FBI is not qualified to be president of the United States." - Donald Trump (many times)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 09, 2022, 03:57:15 pm
How could anyone trust Trump's judgment as president when he appoints radical Left Antifa authoritarians like Christopher Wray to lead the FBI?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 09, 2022, 04:02:40 pm
"When you're attacking FBI agents because you're under criminal investigation, you're losing." - Sarah Huckabee Sanders
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 10, 2022, 08:52:22 am
And it keeps getting worse for Trump...

From: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/09/house-panel-trumps-tax-returns-appeals-court-00050535
A federal appeals court panel on Tuesday rejected Donald Trump’s effort to block a House committee from obtaining several years of his tax returns....the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals agreed that the Ways and Means Committee’s request complied with the law, that it was made in support of potential legislation on matters like the Presidential Audit Program....

For better or worse, although its a good thing that his tax records will be available, (and I do like seeing Trump lose in court) it probably won't hurt Trump much. (The records may go to the house committee but they won't be public. The important part was when his tax records were made available to prosecutors working on fraud charges, but those unfortunately are still in progress.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 10, 2022, 09:04:08 am
And even worser for Trump:

From: https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/after-losing-in-court-donald-trumps-2016-campaign-abandons-confidentiality-provisions-that-silenced-workers/
The legal team behind Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign will no longer seek to punish workers who speak publicly about their time working to get the former president elected. The campaign’s reversal came after a judge voided their non-disclosure agreements as “vague and indefinite.”
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 10, 2022, 10:24:45 am
Donald Trump, 2016 election campaign:

"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?"

Donald Trump, 2022 deposition into possible fraud:

"Under the advice of my counsel and for all of the above reasons, I declined to answer the questions"

Gee Donny, why the change?

From: https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/10/politics/trump-deposition-ny-attorney-general/index.html
Former President Donald Trump invoked his Fifth Amendment rights and declined to answer questions from the New York attorney general at a scheduled deposition Wednesday....While campaigning in 2016, Trump suggested not answering questions was a sign of guilt....James' office said it found "significant" evidence indicating the Trump Organization used false or misleading asset valuations in its financial statements to obtain loans, insurance and tax benefits...If Trump is sued by James and the case goes to trial, the jury can draw an "adverse inference" against him for not answering questions, which could result in a higher judgment against him if he's found liable. If he answers questions, it could open the door to potential civil and criminal liability.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 10, 2022, 11:40:18 am
"Taking the fifth...I think it's disgraceful. The mob takes the fifth. Why are you taking the fifth if you're innocent?" - Donald Trump
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 10, 2022, 12:16:37 pm
Right wing Trump cultists are more upset over the FBI raiding the big wet boy's house than they were the last time a bunch of kids got murdered in a school shooting, they truly are lower than worms.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 10, 2022, 06:13:29 pm
Who is the Mar-a-Lago leaker that apparently told them what they were looking for and where to find it? A Secret Service agent? Ivanka? My money is on Mark Meadows. He didn't seem like he wanted to go to jail for Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 10, 2022, 07:08:52 pm
Who is the Mar-a-Lago leaker that apparently told them what they were looking for and where to find it? A Secret Service agent? Ivanka? My money is on Mark Meadows. He didn't seem like he wanted to go to jail for Trump.

It’s Barron.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 11, 2022, 03:08:14 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZxJjTbUsAAGj81?format=jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 11, 2022, 03:21:25 am
Who is the Mar-a-Lago leaker that apparently told them what they were looking for and where to find it? A Secret Service agent? Ivanka? My money is on Mark Meadows. He didn't seem like he wanted to go to jail for Trump.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZ2W9IiXgAAJ9-F?format=jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 11, 2022, 02:28:33 pm
Republicans encouraged another domestic terror attack.

Quote
An armed man flashing an AR-15 style rifle fired a nail gun into an FBI Cincinnati building Thursday morning leading to a police pursuit and shots fired on an interstate, authorities said.

Two law enforcement sources told NBC News that a man got inside and fired a nail gun toward personnel before fleeing in a car.

"At approximately 9:15 EST, the FBI Cincinnati Field Office had an armed subject attempt to breach the Visitor Screening Facility (VSF)," FBI Cincinnati said in a statement. "Upon the activation of an alarm and a response by armed FBI special agents, the subject fled northbound onto Interstate 71."

link (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/armed-man-shoots-fbi-cincinnati-building-nail-gun-flees-leading-inters-rcna42669)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 11, 2022, 02:40:21 pm
They were actually serious when they declared themselves to be domestic terrorists at CPAC. Crazy times.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 11, 2022, 02:55:56 pm
Garland is calling Trump's bluff and filing to release the search warrant. It will be hard to pretend it was unjustified when everything is out in the open. Trumpers still will, of course. They're retards. But it will be hard.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 11, 2022, 03:53:01 pm
Garland is calling Trump's bluff and filing to release the search warrant. It will be hard to pretend it was unjustified when everything is out in the open. Trumpers still will, of course. They're retards. But it will be hard.
Do you think this warrant was obtained with fraudulent evidence the way the Carter Page FISA warrant was obtained?  Or is this one on the up and up?  Btw, what happened to the FBI agents responsible for fabricating that evidence?  Answer, nothing.  But NOBODY is above the law right?  LOL.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 11, 2022, 03:55:41 pm
Just for a recap, the FBI lied to a federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant.  And literally nothing happened.  What do you think would happen if you or I lied to the FBI, or a federal judge?  The way you people fight for the powerful and privileged all because you hate Trump is astonishing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 11, 2022, 04:32:16 pm
Do you think this warrant was obtained with fraudulent evidence the way the Carter Page FISA warrant was obtained?  Or is this one on the up and up?  Btw, what happened to the FBI agents responsible for fabricating that evidence?  Answer, nothing.  But NOBODY is above the law right?  LOL.
Just for a recap, the FBI lied to a federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant.  And literally nothing happened.  What do you think would happen if you or I lied to the FBI, or a federal judge?  The way you people fight for the powerful and privileged all because you hate Trump is astonishing.

geezaz Shady, is there anything you ever get right? There were 4 FISA warrants in total... 2 of the 4 were ruled invalid given the actions of a single person who was not an 'FBI agent', but rather a FBI so-called 'low-level lawyer', Kevin Clinesmith, who altered a single email that was part of information others used to obtain those 2 warrants that allowed continued surveillance on the prior 2 expired FISA warrants. Per a WAPO article:
Quote
The former FBI lawyer who admitted to doctoring an email that other officials relied upon to justify secret surveillance of a former Trump campaign adviser was sentenced Friday to 12 months of probation, with no time behind bars.

But {U.S. District Judge} Boasberg also said he agreed with a prior finding by the Justice Department Inspector General that Clinesmith and other FBI officials’ actions were not motivated by political bias, and he believed Clinesmith’s contention that he thought, genuinely but wrongly, the information he was inserting into the email was accurate. On top of his probation sentence, Boasberg ordered Clinesmith to perform 400 hours of community service.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 11, 2022, 05:48:27 pm
Just for a recap, the FBI lied to a federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant.  And literally nothing happened.  What do you think would happen if you or I lied to the FBI, or a federal judge?  The way you people fight for the powerful and privileged all because you hate Trump is astonishing.

Read this again, slowly, and see if you can spot the flaw in your reasoning.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 11, 2022, 05:48:49 pm
Do you think this warrant was obtained with fraudulent evidence the way the Carter Page FISA warrant was obtained?  Or is this one on the up and up?  Btw, what happened to the FBI agents responsible for fabricating that evidence?  Answer, nothing.  But NOBODY is above the law right?  LOL.

WHATABOUTWHATABOUTWHATABOUTWHATABOUT
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 11, 2022, 06:07:30 pm
Just for a recap, the FBI lied to a federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant.  And literally nothing happened.
Damn reading comprehension, eh? He was charged and put on probation.
But you cowered from my question whether that means Putin Republicans should forevermore get a pass for their illegal activities?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 11, 2022, 06:29:38 pm
Nevertheless, any arguments of tyranny and unfairness are moot if (when) he tries to keep the warrant sealed. He would be the one trying to keep the truth from coming to light. The extreme base can tolerate that sort of cognitive dissonance, but most people would be able to see through that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 11, 2022, 08:00:03 pm
Damn reading comprehension, eh? He was charged and put on probation.
But you cowered from my question whether that means Putin Republicans should forevermore get a pass for their illegal activities?

Whenever you think you've seen the depths of Shiddy's stupidity, he finds a new level.

Quote
Federal District Court Judge James Boasberg said that while Clinesmith's actions were serious, the warrant application probably would have been approved anyway without his misstatement. Boasberg also serves as the presiding judge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.

link (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/ex-fbi-lawyer-gets-probation-falsifying-carter-page-surveillance-application-n1256179)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 11, 2022, 08:09:29 pm
Lil' update on the latest right wing terrorist loser: he ded (https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/11/us/cincinnati-fbi-office-armed-subject/index.html).

Quote
A law enforcement standoff with a man who attempted to breach the FBI's field office in Cincinnati on Thursday has ended with the suspect dead, according to the Ohio State Highway Patrol.

Lt. Nathan Dennis said that after negotiations failed, law enforcement officers tried to take suspect into custody, but the suspect raised a gun at authorities and was fatally shot.

LMAO at this bit:

Quote
A Truth Social account bearing Shiffer's name referenced his attempt to storm an FBI office, and also encouraged others online to prepare for a revolutionary-type war, CNN has learned.

"Well, I thought I had a way through bullet proof glass, and I didn't," the user posted on Donald Trump's social media site at 9:29 a.m. Authorities say the attack took place at 9:15. "If you don't hear from me, it is true I tried attacking the F.B.I., and it'll mean either I was taken off the internet, the F.B.I. got me, or they sent the regular cops while."

Just like that dumbfuck Ashliii Babitt, throwing your life away for apiece of trash like Trump who wouldn't **** on your grave if it was on his golf course.

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/038/763/tco_-_2021-11-05T095613.835.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 11, 2022, 08:31:58 pm
You know, I think we're probably being too hard on Trump for potentially having government documents at Mar a Lago. After all, there probably wasn't anything that important there. What damage can there be from classified information about (looks up latest news story)... nuclear weapons.

From: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-attorney-general-garland-confirms-fbi-investigating-trump-2022-08-11/
U.S. federal agents were looking for documents relating to nuclear weapons when they raided former President Donald Trump's home... It was not clear if such documents were recovered

Now, keep in mind that this is still in the early stages, and we haven't received anything official. (It would however certainly explain the rush to get things back.) But, this would not be the first time that Trump got into trouble over nuclear secrets.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 11, 2022, 08:36:33 pm
One other thing... from the article I referenced in the last post....

Garland has announced that he is going to ask the courts to unseal the contents of the warrant. (Normally that sort of thing would be kept confidential, due to privacy rights. But, we have heard many on the republican side howl about "transparency" so maybe this will shut them up.) Trump has until mid-day Friday to either allow the warrant to be released or to try to block it.

Brilliant move by Garland... calling Trump's bluff. Makes it a bit harder to complain about "privacy" (not that the MAGAchud won't still try.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 11, 2022, 08:46:02 pm
I'm looking forward to Trumpers rationalizing selling nuclear secrets to sell to Saudi Arabia. I imagine there will be no amount of evidence that could ever make them believe (or at least admit) he did it. They have no other option but to deny it could have happened.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 11, 2022, 09:18:24 pm
I'm looking forward to Trumpers rationalizing selling nuclear secrets to sell to Saudi Arabia. I imagine there will be no amount of evidence that could ever make them believe (or at least admit) he did it. They have no other option but to deny it could have happened.
Keep in mind yet that there is so much that is unknown (and verification of the story would be nice).

Assuming its true, we don't know if it was about the U.S. nuclear program, or that of other countries (e.g. "Here's what our intelligence has learned about the Russian/Chinese nuclear missiles.) We also don't know if he was planning on selling the documents, or was just incredibly careless with the storage of them.  (So assuming specifically that he was selling nuclear secrets to saudi arabia is wild speculation at this point.)

I doubt he would have any technical 'How to build a bomb' type stuff. He might however have something like "This is where the CIA found nuclear sites in Iran", which of course would be of interest to Saudi Arabia/Israel.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 12, 2022, 09:26:43 am
Trump seems to be confirming that he had classified nuclear documents.

On his 'truth social' account, he has accused the FBI of "planting evidence", which would only really be a useful defense if he knew they would find something.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 12, 2022, 10:44:19 am
lol incredible:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZ60uFkUEAEOHt0?format=jpg&name=900x900)

If, like everyone else, you're wondering what the big man is on about, he's apparently referring to records owned by the National Archives that were hipped to Chicago for Obama's presidential library. It should come as no surprise that he doesn't know what a library is.





Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 12, 2022, 11:35:32 am
 It's amazing they're so willing to worship a guy who obviously thinks his followers are idiots.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 12, 2022, 12:09:05 pm
It's amazing they're so willing to worship a guy who obviously thinks his followers are idiots.

Or maybe the appeal is the dopes recognize him as one of their own.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 12, 2022, 12:14:03 pm
lol incredible:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZ60uFkUEAEOHt0?format=jpg&name=900x900)

If, like everyone else, you're wondering what the big man is on about, he's apparently referring to records owned by the National Archives that were hipped to Chicago for Obama's presidential library. It should come as no surprise that he doesn't know what a library is.
And, it should be added, records that were checked out from the National archives according to established procedures.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 12, 2022, 12:17:00 pm
And, it should be added, records that were checked out from the National archives according to established procedures.

Yeah, he's counting on his supporters being too dumb to know the difference between legitimate records and classified material and he's correct in thinking so.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 12, 2022, 12:38:56 pm
FoxNews caught photoshopping a picture of the judge who approved the warrant so it looks like he's hanging out with Ghislaine Maxwell. I can imagine the right-wing reaction if a real news organization did that, and the consequences a real news organization would impose on the people that did it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 12, 2022, 02:37:12 pm
I'm thinking defending espionage and attacking the police that investigate it (going so far as to dox the agents' names) isn't the winning strategy for the midterms that the GOP thinks it is.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 12, 2022, 03:27:12 pm
I want to get my hopes up but I fear I'll just be disappointed.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/027/463/Screen_Shot_2018-10-24_at_11.08.29_AM.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 12, 2022, 03:41:30 pm
The silence among his defenders is deafening. I'm sure they will still come out defend him, but they seem to be having a hard time thinking up any effective talking points.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 12, 2022, 04:58:05 pm
The silence among his defenders is deafening. I'm sure they will still come out defend him, but they seem to be having a hard time thinking up any effective talking points.

All they have are conspiracies to cling to.  And they certainly will.  The FBI planted evidence…. Deep state…. Blah, blah, blah. 

And conspiracies work very well for them.  They’re easy. And any evidence to the contrary is part of the conspiracy!!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 12, 2022, 08:45:21 pm
Just to add to Trump's misfortunes...

From: https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/12/investing/trump-org-allen-weisselberg-tax-fraud-hearing/index.html
New York state judge denied the Trump Organization and its former chief financial officer Allen Weisselberg's motions to dismiss tax fraud charges... Weisselberg and the Trump Organization were indicted last year on charges they were involved in a 15-year tax fraud scheme. They both pleaded not guilty. The judge said jury selection would begin in the trial on October 24.

Certainly not unexpected that they would allow the charges to stand. So no big shocks. But it is nice to see this happen to Stubby McBonespurs at the same time he is dealing with all the other problems.

Lets see, we have:
- criminal Tax fraud charges involving weisselberg and the Trump organization
- A civil case against the Trump organization (where he plead the 5th hundreds of times in a deposition)
- Mishandling classified documents
- The january 6th terrorist attack which might be linked to him
- An investigation into his attempt to overthrow the election in Georgia
- A defamation lawsuit against Trump by Jean Carroll

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 12, 2022, 08:56:19 pm
If I were a Trumper, I would at least want them to give me consistent talking points so I don't look like an idiot. How can they expect anyone to say "The documents were planted by the FBI (which doesn't have access to such documents), but Trump declassified them."

And how is randomly declassifying deadly nuclear secrets a defence anyway? That's insane
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 12, 2022, 09:01:58 pm
So the contents of the warrant used to search Trump's property has been released, as well as an inventory of items taken. And it is... not looking good for Stubby McBonespurs.

From: https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/12/politics/trump-mar-a-lago-investigation/index.html
The Justice Department removed 11 sets of classified documents from former President Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago residence...The search warrant identifies three federal crimes that the Justice Department is looking at as part of its investigation: violations of the Espionage Act, obstruction of justice and criminal handling of government records....The warrant receipt didn't detail the subject of these classified documents but did note that federal agents seized just one set marked "top secret/SCI."
Agents also took four sets of "top secret" documents, three sets of "secret" documents, and three sets of "confidential" documents...During the search, FBI agents also recovered material about the "President of France"...
...
The court documents released Friday also offer new details about the search itself and revealed that FBI agents were only allowed access to specific locations...The judge authorized the FBI to search what the bureau called the "45 Office," an apparent reference to Trump's place in history as the 45th President.


No word yet on what exactly the 'nuclear' documents were. But, it is pretty clear from the receipts that documents were mishandled.

Stubby McBonespurs is claiming "they could have just asked for the documents back", but then that would be ignoring the fact that they made requests months ago (and even issued a supoena), yet Trump didn't turn them over.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 12, 2022, 09:04:58 pm
If I were a Trumper, I would at least want them to give me consistent talking points so I don't look like an idiot. How can they expect anyone to say "The documents were planted by the FBI (which doesn't have access to such documents), but Trump declassified them."
Never underestimate the ability of MAGAchud to exhibit stupidity. (After all, look at our resident Trumper on this board.)

Remember, there are a lot of Trumpers who claim the Jan6 terrorist attack was done by Antifa, despite the fact that Trump said he loved them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 12, 2022, 09:23:20 pm
It would be a great victory for the republic if this man goes to jail.  I don't even care if it's for something totally unrelated to Jan 6, like taking classified documents.  Presidents shouldn't be allowed to do the things he did and get away with it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 12, 2022, 09:33:29 pm
Even doxxing the agents who executed the warrant to Breitbart a day after a MAGAcult mass shooter targeted the FBI seems worthy of jail time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 12, 2022, 09:43:04 pm
It would be a great victory for the republic if this man goes to jail.  I don't even care if it's for something totally unrelated to Jan 6, like taking classified documents.  Presidents shouldn't be allowed to do the things he did and get away with it.
Personally I would have loved for him to be arrested for Sharpiegate.

Remember when he used a marker drew on a map showing the possible path of a hurricane to include Alabama (which at the time the experts said would be unaffected.) Technically giving false weather statements is a crime.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 12, 2022, 10:33:15 pm
It would be a great victory for the republic if this man goes to jail.  I don't even care if it's for something totally unrelated to Jan 6, like taking classified documents.  Presidents shouldn't be allowed to do the things he did and get away with it.
Should other politicians be allowed to get away with similar things?  Should Hillary Clinton have been allowed to get away with a private server, in violation of the law?  Should she have been allowed to delete tens of thousands of emails, in violation of the law?  What about intelligence officials like James Clapper and John Brennen lying to congress under oath about not spying on Americans?  Why were they allowed to get away with it?  How about Hillary Clinton’s lawyer lying to the FBI about a Trump server secretly communicating with Russia?  Why was he able to get away with that?  What about the FBI agents that fabricated fraudulent evidence in order to lie to a judge to obtain a FISA warrant on Trump campaign officials?  Why were they allowed to get away with that?
You see, I don’t have an issue with Trump being held responsible for possible violations of the law.  My issue is that there seems to be one standard for him, and anyone associated with him, and a completely different standard for the well connected and those that have pursued Trump, etc.  When you have a justice system that’s politically motivated, and reaches conclusions based on those political motivations, you completely erode that trust that’s necessary in a functioning democratic society.  Trump Haters seem to be blinded by this fact, for whatever reason.  Maybe they just don’t think the repercussions will be all that significant.  That in a few years people will have forgotten the incredible imbalance of the application of the law based on politics.  I don’t feel like that’s going to be the case.  I think that this type of process is only going to poison American civil society.  So unfortunately, I don’t see this as the big victory that you do.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 12, 2022, 10:37:20 pm
Even doxxing the agents who executed the warrant to Breitbart a day after a MAGAcult mass shooter targeted the FBI seems worthy of jail time.
Only worthy to a police state loving piece of sh*t.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 12, 2022, 10:39:20 pm
Personally I would have loved for him to be arrested for Sharpiegate.

Remember when he used a marker drew on a map showing the possible path of a hurricane to include Alabama (which at the time the experts said would be unaffected.) Technically giving false weather statements is a crime.
Is there anything you authoritarian sh*t stains don’t want to make illegal.  JFC you people are the absolute worst.  F**k off and move to China if you’re so infatuated with those kinds of laws.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 13, 2022, 12:17:47 am
I haven't seen you squirm like that since Jan. 6. Hilarious to watch you squeal again. Thanks for a topper on an excellent day.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 13, 2022, 12:18:43 am
Should other politicians be allowed to get away with similar things?  Should Hillary Clinton have been allowed to get away with a private server, in violation of the law?  Should she have been allowed to delete tens of thousands of emails, in violation of the law?  What about intelligence officials like James Clapper and John Brennen lying to congress under oath about not spying on Americans?  Why were they allowed to get away with it?  How about Hillary Clinton’s lawyer lying to the FBI about a Trump server secretly communicating with Russia?  Why was he able to get away with that?  What about the FBI agents that fabricated fraudulent evidence in order to lie to a judge to obtain a FISA warrant on Trump campaign officials?  Why were they allowed to get away with that?
You see, I don’t have an issue with Trump being held responsible for possible violations of the law.  My issue is that there seems to be one standard for him, and anyone associated with him, and a completely different standard for the well connected and those that have pursued Trump, etc.  When you have a justice system that’s politically motivated, and reaches conclusions based on those political motivations, you completely erode that trust that’s necessary in a functioning democratic society.  Trump Haters seem to be blinded by this fact, for whatever reason.  Maybe they just don’t think the repercussions will be all that significant.  That in a few years people will have forgotten the incredible imbalance of the application of the law based on politics.  I don’t feel like that’s going to be the case.  I think that this type of process is only going to poison American civil society.  So unfortunately, I don’t see this as the big victory that you do.

You're trying to make this a partisan issue, it's not.  A sitting President tried willfully tried to overturn an election that he lost, and attempted this at the highest levels, including trying to get his VP to not certify the election results.  Comparing this to Hilary Clinton's emails is a joke.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 13, 2022, 03:00:04 am
Trump's latest defense.... "Everything was declassified".

From: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-classified-records/
...the former president claimed in a post Friday on Truth Social that the material "was all declassified."

Now, it is true that the President does have significant leeway to declassify documents. But Trump's claims that "everything was declassified" is problematic...

- The Trump bootlickers have been spreading the word that "maybe the FBI planted the documents". Trying to go from that excuse to "it was declassified" has the hallmarks of someone throwing out excuse after excuse hoping to find one that works. Might work on the feeble-minded like shady, but won't work on anyone with a functional brain. "The documents were planted but were declassified anyways"? Some were planted, others declassified? How does that work?

- Presidents can declassify documents, but there are certain protocols in place... memos have to be drafted and signed, and the documents themselves have to be properly stamped. (i.e. Trump just can't shout "declassified" like it was some sort of magic spell he learned at Hogwarts). Now, in theory it is possible that perhaps there were glitches in some of the paperwork for some of the documents. But we are talking multiple documents... it is doubtful that they are all simply a case of "lost paperwork".

- Even if the documents WERE declassified by Trump, the laws that were cited in the search warrant (such as the espionage act, or obstruction of justice) do not require that the documents be classified in order for a person to be charged. They only require that (for example) "Material illegally be removed from its proper place". Sure, Trump could have declassified the nuclear launch codes. But those codes are still the property of the U.S. government and would still need to be stored in a government facility.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 13, 2022, 03:58:48 am
(https://i.imgur.com/PDlUHeQ.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 13, 2022, 07:49:58 am
Should other politicians be allowed to get away with similar things?  Should Hillary Clinton have been allowed to get away with a private server, in violation of the law?  Should she have been allowed to delete tens of thousands of emails, in violation of the law?  What about intelligence officials like James Clapper and John Brennen lying to congress under oath about not spying on Americans?  Why were they allowed to get away with it?  How about Hillary Clinton’s lawyer lying to the FBI about a Trump server secretly communicating with Russia...
Yes, imaginary crimes don't count though.
Weird that Trump would put a deep state Democrat (posing as a lifelong Republican) like Wray in charge of the FBI though, eh? I thought he was supposed to drain the swamp. Just incompetent, I guess.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 13, 2022, 01:41:06 pm
I read in the Atlantic that the president can’t declassify nuclear secrets.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 13, 2022, 02:02:41 pm
And even if he could, that doesn't make it okay.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 13, 2022, 03:25:44 pm
When you have a justice system that’s politically motivated, and reaches conclusions based on those political motivations, you completely erode that trust that’s necessary in a functioning democratic society.

oh really! LOL!

(https://i.imgur.com/ysQjglz.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 13, 2022, 03:48:49 pm
(https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/newscms/2021_36/3504322/210917-donald-trump-mn-1015.jpg)

so chill! Trump's playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers! There was a standing order, hey! Per Fox News/Hannity - Statement from Trump Office (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1558261168782852099/pu/vid/1280x720/oaEVb4AZEcAPZZbW.mp4?tag=12):

Quote
As we can all relate to, everyone ends up having to bring home their work from time to time… He had a standing order that documents removed from the Oval Office taken to the residence were deemed to be declassified the moment he removed them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 13, 2022, 04:33:04 pm
This is all just a giant fishing expedition.  It’s a perfect example of the old Soviet “show me the man and I’ll show you the crime” mantra.  And you all accept this kind of police state overreach because your hatred of Trump has completely blinded you.  It’s actually really sad.  And now we find out that the judge that approved this warrant has anti-Trump material up on his social media accounts.  Which just gives the continued look of partisanship policing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 13, 2022, 04:36:23 pm
Is this now year 6 of investigating Trump?  6 years!  It’s not a crime to be a narcissistic a-hole.  I know Trump really gets under people’s skin, I know people hate him with a passion because of the things he says and the way he acts.  But that’s not against the law, and you don’t pervert the entire justice system because you find somebody morally reprehensible.  You people really do need professional help.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 13, 2022, 04:41:39 pm
Trump laying the foundation for... 'nuclear materials were planted by the FBI during the Mar-a-Lago search'. From Trump's own "Truth Social" social media platform:

(https://i.imgur.com/pGLHVwo.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 13, 2022, 04:51:32 pm
And now we find out that the judge that approved this warrant has anti-Trump material up on his social media accounts.  Which just gives the continued look of partisanship policing.

citation request
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 13, 2022, 05:19:45 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/mJYrFuC.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 13, 2022, 05:29:40 pm
citation request
Not again! How humiliating.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 13, 2022, 05:37:56 pm
This is all just a giant fishing expedition.  It’s a perfect example of the old Soviet “show me the man and I’ll show you the crime” mantra.
He's guilty and you know it. You just don't have balls enough to admit you were an idiot. So you lie about law enforcement with baseless BS and think that makes you look smart...because you're not smart enough to realize how that really makes you look.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 14, 2022, 12:29:24 pm
oh fuuuuuuuuu!

(https://i.imgur.com/mFFAm6C.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 14, 2022, 04:00:42 pm
He's guilty and you know it. You just don't have balls enough to admit you were an idiot. So you lie about law enforcement with baseless BS and think that makes you look smart...because you're not smart enough to realize how that really makes you look.
Guilty of what? 😂
6 years of fishing expeditions and still nothing.  You’re a police state useful idiot.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 14, 2022, 04:08:44 pm
citation request
You can read them for yourself, oh my!

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 14, 2022, 04:10:51 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/mJYrFuC.gif)
Yes, the Washington establishment and the neocons now Democrats definitely want to see Trump gone.  Not enough endless foreign wars!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 14, 2022, 09:52:50 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/mJYrFuC.gif)

Bill Kristol is a moron and a human piece of garbage.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 14, 2022, 10:11:54 pm
He was being sarcastic.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 14, 2022, 10:30:58 pm
He was being sarcastic.

It’s incredible that you have to explain that to Shady and Graham….
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 15, 2022, 12:01:45 am
It’s incredible that you have to explain that to Shady and Graham….

What does bubber's comment have anything to do with what I said?  Lol.

Bill Kristol hates Trump, but who cares because he's a terrible human being on par with Trump.  He just hates Trump because Trump isn't a neocon and therefore Billy Boy doesn't have the access like he did under the Bush admin in order to push for killing more Arabs.  TLDR: Waldo needs better sources.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 15, 2022, 06:50:29 am
I accept all people's hatred of Trump as valid.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 15, 2022, 10:20:12 am
Should other politicians be allowed to get away with similar things?  Should Hillary Clinton have been allowed to get away with a private server, in violation of the law?  Should she have been allowed to delete tens of thousands of emails, in violation of the law?  What about intelligence officials like James Clapper and John Brennen lying to congress under oath about not spying on Americans?  Why were they allowed to get away with it?  How about Hillary Clinton’s lawyer lying to the FBI about a Trump server secretly communicating with Russia?  Why was he able to get away with that?  What about the FBI agents that fabricated fraudulent evidence in order to lie to a judge to obtain a FISA warrant on Trump campaign officials?  Why were they allowed to get away with that?

WHATABOUTWHATABOUTWHATABOUTWHATABOUT

There were investigations around all those things too, it's not like they were ignored.

Quote
You see, I don’t have an issue with Trump being held responsible for possible violations of the law.  My issue is that there seems to be one standard for him, and anyone associated with him, and a completely different standard for the well connected and those that have pursued Trump, etc.  When you have a justice system that’s politically motivated, and reaches conclusions based on those political motivations, you completely erode that trust that’s necessary in a functioning democratic society.  Trump Haters seem to be blinded by this fact, for whatever reason.  Maybe they just don’t think the repercussions will be all that significant.  That in a few years people will have forgotten the incredible imbalance of the application of the law based on politics.  I don’t feel like that’s going to be the case.  I think that this type of process is only going to poison American civil society.  So unfortunately, I don’t see this as the big victory that you do.

The problem is the only evidence you have that the investigation of Trump's crimes is politically motivated is the very existence of the investigation. No one's buying your shtick here.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 15, 2022, 05:57:39 pm
You retards have literally been saying the same thing for 6 f**king years. 😂😂😂

https://youtu.be/wxvFuKsWU1I
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 15, 2022, 06:14:36 pm
“The walls are closing in”
“It’s the beginning of the end”
“This is a bombshell”
“This time it’s different”
“I expect him to resign any day now”

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 15, 2022, 07:02:11 pm
I agree that nobody expected you guys to become so cultishly enamored with a mushroom-dicked, adderall-addicted, brain dead criminal that you would be willing to attack FBI agents for investigating credible evidence he's selling state secrets, including the names of U.S. spies...not to mention his lying, incompetence, and insurrection. We just had no idea you're as stupid and pathetic as you are.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 15, 2022, 08:14:20 pm
Laura Ingram apparently just dumped Trump.



😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 16, 2022, 09:47:00 am
You retards have literally been saying the same thing for 6 f**king years. 😂😂😂

https://youtu.be/wxvFuKsWU1I

If that's the calibre of media you consume it's really no wonder you're so fucken stupid.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 16, 2022, 10:56:52 am
The Daily Show: Fox News... 'Excuse That Crime'! (https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1559318478238220288/vid/1280x720/Dc8hsiYpKtE3upeE.mp4?tag=14)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 16, 2022, 12:31:22 pm
The Daily Show: Fox News... 'Excuse That Crime'! (https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1559318478238220288/vid/1280x720/Dc8hsiYpKtE3upeE.mp4?tag=14)
The walls are closing in!  It’s only a matter of time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 16, 2022, 12:49:02 pm
The walls are closing in!  It’s only a matter of time.

Sounds like you're talking about the nothinhgburger Hunter Biden investigation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 16, 2022, 03:15:25 pm
Sounds like you're talking about the nothinhgburger Hunter Biden investigation.
You mean the gun application that Hunter Biden lied in, which is a felony?  But nothing happens to him because he’s Biden’s son.
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 16, 2022, 03:25:47 pm
Trump should never be investigated because whatabout Hunter, who was investigated.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 16, 2022, 03:57:42 pm
You mean the gun application that Hunter Biden lied in, which is a felony?  But nothing happens to him because he’s Biden’s son.
(Attachment Link)

Or nothing happened because basically nobody faces consequences for lying on a form like that (https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-18-440.pdf).

Lover the meme btw boomer, couldn't you have found one with more pixelation though?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 16, 2022, 04:51:48 pm
Or nothing happened because basically nobody faces consequences for lying on a form like that (https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-18-440.pdf).

Lover the meme btw boomer, couldn't you have found one with more pixelation though?
That’s incorrect.  Also, he literally threw a gun a garbage can.  Again, no prosecution.  He’s on video weighting ****, no prosecution, and that doesn’t even get into his crooked business dealings.  Stop sucking his d**k just because you hate Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 16, 2022, 05:48:29 pm
That’s incorrect.  Also, he literally threw a gun a garbage can. Again, no prosecution.  He’s on video weighting ****, no prosecution, and that doesn’t even get into his crooked business dealings.  Stop sucking his d**k just because you hate Trump.

I love that you wingnuts have a whole Hunter Biden extended universe with it's own little mythology. Why can't you just get into the MCU like other dateless, friendless and socially inept losers?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 16, 2022, 06:10:41 pm
common criminals grabbed everything in sight!

(https://i.imgur.com/QG0aRCz.gif)  (https://i.imgur.com/UfqEoln.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 16, 2022, 07:10:17 pm
Yes, the Washington establishment and the neocons now Democrats definitely want to see Trump gone.  Not enough endless foreign wars!

So if he did declassify them, there had to be reasons given and a paper trail. It should be easy for Trump to prove.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 16, 2022, 07:49:26 pm
That’s incorrect.  Also, he literally threw a gun a garbage can.  .
His girlfriend did that, but don't let facts get in the way of a good meme. Was Hunter literally 4th in command of the Nazis?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2022, 12:37:46 pm
common criminals grabbed everything in sight!

(https://i.imgur.com/QG0aRCz.gif)  (https://i.imgur.com/UfqEoln.jpg)
Yep, they took his passports, said they didn’t, and then returned them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2022, 12:44:48 pm
It was great seeing Liz Cheney get demolished in her primary.  That’s what she gets for obsessing over Donald Trump, and abdicating her duties as a representative of her constituents.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 17, 2022, 12:47:17 pm
It was great seeing Liz Cheney get demolished in her primary.  That’s what she gets for obsessing over Donald Trump, and abdicating her duties as a representative of her constituents.

LOL is that the new line from FOX News, gramps?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2022, 12:51:06 pm
LOL is that the new line from FOX News, gramps?
No boomer, it’s the truth.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 17, 2022, 01:03:22 pm
No boomer, it’s the truth.

You wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in the face, but that's normal for you Trump boomer bitter-enders.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2022, 01:43:30 pm
You wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in the face, but that's normal for you Trump boomer bitter-enders.
Not true groomer boomer.  She completely stopped representing her constituents when it comes to Biden administration policies, and completely focused on her great white whale.  Now she’s comparing herself to Abraham Lincoln!  She’s almost as delusional as you are! 🤣
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 17, 2022, 01:47:12 pm
Not true groomer boomer.  She completely stopped representing her constituents when it comes to Biden administration policies, and completely focused on her great white whale.  Now she’s comparing herself to Abraham Lincoln!  She’s almost as delusional as you are! 🤣

I'd ask you to provide some evidence, but we all know how that will go, you lily-livered little twat.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2022, 02:47:08 pm
I'd ask you to provide some evidence, but we all know how that will go, you lily-livered little twat.
Show me some evidence of her standing up to the Biden administration on any of its policies.  Especially related to oil and gas which directly impacts her state as an oil and gas producing state.  You know, you don’t have to reflexively support everything that’s opposite of Trump, like a Pavlovian dog.  You can not like Trump but also recognize this reality. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 17, 2022, 03:17:51 pm
Show me some evidence of her standing up to the Biden administration on any of its policies.  Especially related to oil and gas which directly impacts her state as an oil and gas producing state.

You seem to forget where the burden of proof lies here, dipshit. YOU made the claim, YOU back it up.

Quote
You know, you don’t have to reflexively support everything that’s opposite of Trump, like a Pavlovian dog.  You can not like Trump but also recognize this reality.

Again, retard, this isn't about Cheney (because f*ck her) it's about you continuing to make unsubstantiated claims and then running away like the little b*tchass coward you are.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 17, 2022, 03:20:59 pm
Cheney should say the vote was fixed and refuse to concede. It would be hilarious.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2022, 03:24:29 pm
You seem to forget where the burden of proof lies here, dipshit. YOU made the claim, YOU back it up.
Like you backed up your claim about hockey culture?  You’re such a giant hypocrite and you don’t even realize it.  Ever heard of the pot calling the kettle black?  That’s you Black Dog, err Black Kettle.  Take some of your own advice sh*t head.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 17, 2022, 03:33:30 pm
Whatabout...hockey culture claims? Good one.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 17, 2022, 03:41:08 pm
Like you backed up your claim about hockey culture?

I'm sorry, but who didn't back up their claim about hockey culture here Mr. "the data doesn’t reflect that"? LMAO

Quote
You’re such a giant hypocrite and you don’t even realize it.  Ever heard of the pot calling the kettle black?  That’s you Black Dog, err Black Kettle.  Take some of your own advice sh*t head.

Huh, I can't help but notice you're still not backing up your claims. Pu$$y.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2022, 03:41:32 pm
Whatabout...hockey culture claims? Good one.
Again contributing nothing to this forum, as usual.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2022, 03:43:28 pm
I'm sorry, but who didn't back up their claim about hockey culture here Mr. "the data doesn’t reflect that"? LMAO
You didn't.  You still haven't stated on what you based your assertion on, other than the thumb up your butt.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 17, 2022, 03:51:31 pm
You didn't.  You still haven't stated on what you based your assertion on, other than the thumb up your butt.

What assertion was that, specifically?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 17, 2022, 03:54:20 pm
I'm still waiting for the retraction for the Putin meme about Freeland's grandpa being 4th in command of the Nazis. Amazing, and scary, that there are people stupid enough to believe something like that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2022, 07:05:18 pm
I'm still waiting for the retraction for the Putin meme about Freeland's grandpa being 4th in command of the Nazis. Amazing, and scary, that there are people stupid enough to believe something like that.
Who said anything about 4th in command?  Stop lying.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2022, 07:07:15 pm
What assertion was that, specifically?
The one related to sexual assault, etc.  Oh and racist.  You have never said how you came to those conclusions, as to generalize an entire group, and how they statistically differ from general society.  Other than your “feelings” which aren’t facts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 17, 2022, 07:42:00 pm
Trump Org's CFO has pled guilty to 15 felonies and will get a greatly reduced sentence because he has agreed to testify against Trump.
He's flipped. Giuliani is awaiting his indictment. Chickens are roosting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2022, 09:08:29 pm
Trump Org's CFO has pled guilty to 15 felonies and will get a greatly reduced sentence because he has agreed to testify against Trump.
He's flipped. Giuliani is awaiting his indictment. Chickens are roosting.
The walls are closing in! 😂😂😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 17, 2022, 09:57:43 pm
Yup. The wannabe insurrectionists are clearly nervous.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 17, 2022, 11:46:12 pm
Trump Org's CFO has pled guilty to 15 felonies and will get a greatly reduced sentence because he has agreed to testify against Trump.
He's flipped. Giuliani is awaiting his indictment. Chickens are roosting.
Minor point...

Currently the details of Weisselberg's (the Trump organization's CFO) plea deal are unknown. But, the current rumors are that he will assist in the prosecution of the Trump organization, but won't act against Trump himself. (And the current prosecutor seems to be hesitant about following through.)

Not that it won't cause a lot of headaches for Trump. Hopefully the victory will cause the prosecutors to be more aggressive in going after other members of the Trump klan. But at the very least, we can say without a doubt that "Trump's company are a bunch of tax cheats", and we have the conviction as evidence.

But for prosecution/jail time, the most likely legal case is that of his possession of documents. Its probably the most straightforward case, easy to understand. "Did you have government documents? Yes. Do you have evidence you were allowed to have them? No. Case closed".

Speaking of prosecuting Trump, there is this:

From: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/08/donald-trump-lawyer-problems-classified-documents-raid
“Trump and close aides have spent the eight days since the FBI searched his Florida home rushing to assemble a team of respected defense lawyers,” but, in the words of one person familiar with the matter, “everyone is saying no.”...Trump’s legal team once urged the then president “against tweeting about the Mueller probe, only to find he’d tweeted about it before they got to the end of the West Wing driveway.” Others said he was “nearly impossible to represent and that it would be unclear if they would ever get paid.”
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 17, 2022, 11:59:21 pm
The Daily Show: Fox News... 'Excuse That Crime'! (https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1559318478238220288/vid/1280x720/Dc8hsiYpKtE3upeE.mp4?tag=14)
The walls are closing in!  It’s only a matter of time.

c'mon Shady! You have yet to offer comment... rationale... as to why Trump had those documents (of varying degrees of classified sensitivity) at the "Southern White House". Instead you alternately choose to deflect/distract/obfuscate...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 18, 2022, 08:18:18 am
It was great seeing Liz Cheney get demolished in her primary.  That’s what she gets for obsessing over Donald Trump, and abdicating her duties as a representative of her constituents.

People with spines are not welcome in the Trump Party.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 18, 2022, 08:47:18 am
I also thought it was great to see Liz Cheney crushed. The GOP eating itself as it falls into cultism will be wonderful for their long-term electoral prospects.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 09:05:46 am
People with spines are not welcome in the Trump Party.
Not true.  You can have a spine, as long as you also represent the interests of your constituents.  If you fail to do that, and only obsess over one thing, voters will reject you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 09:06:44 am
I also thought it was great to see Liz Cheney crushed. The GOP eating itself as it falls into cultism will be wonderful for their long-term electoral prospects.
Their long-term prospects look unbelievable, especially as Hispanics continue to flee the Democrat party.  Keep calling them Latinx! LOL!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 09:09:22 am
c'mon Shady! You have yet to offer comment... rationale... as to why Trump had those documents (of varying degrees of classified sensitivity) at the "Southern White House". Instead you alternately choose to deflect/distract/obfuscate...
Why did Hillary Clinton have varying degrees of classified material on her illegal private server?  Why did she delete 30,000 emails, that are apparently unrecoverable?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 18, 2022, 09:32:20 am
Why did you consider that to be so important, even after it was investigated, but you think Trump shouldn't be investigated at all?
I await a brave non-answer, like when you were asked about your lies regarding Freeland's grandfather
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 18, 2022, 09:42:48 am
I also thought it was great to see Liz Cheney crushed. The GOP eating itself as it falls into cultism will be wonderful for their long-term electoral prospects.
I kind of have mixed views about that.

It is nice to think that the republican party will soon become so crazy that they will be left with nothing but the MAGAchud base (not nearly enough to gain power). Unfortunately, there is also a chance that even a party of absolute nutcases could still win elections. (All they need is an advantageous electoral college/enough voter suppression/something unfortunate happening to the democrats at the wrong time.) Remember, all the signs of Trump's incompetence and corruption existed prior to the 2016 election, but he still managed to beat a decent, competent democrat.

Cheney is a pretty horrible person overall. Remember, she voted with Trump > 90% of the time, including when she voted against impeachment the first time. (So she was quite ok with Trump blackmailing a foreign country to interfere with U.S. elections.) But, she is slightly less horrible than the rest of the republicans.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 09:53:41 am
The one related to sexual assault, etc.  Oh and racist.  You have never said how you came to those conclusions, as to generalize an entire group, and how they statistically differ from general society.  Other than your “feelings” which aren’t facts.

Hockey culture is sexist and racist and that's self-evident to anyone who has spent any time within it and the evidence of widespread sexual abuse (Graham James, Kyle Beach's experience, the Hockey Canada shush fund, plus countless other reported incidents) support those observations. The notion that it's no more prevalent than in the rest of society was your claim, one that you've failed to back up again and again and again. that's all I'll say on the subject in this thread.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 09:57:38 am
Not true.  You can have a spine, as long as you also represent the interests of your constituents.  If you fail to do that, and only obsess over one thing, voters will reject you.

Still waiting for evidence Cheney failed in that regard and was not simply punished for going against the cult of personality that is the GOP.

Their long-term prospects look unbelievable, especially as Hispanics continue to flee the Democrat party.  Keep calling them Latinx! LOL!
[/quote

The party whose entire platform is obsessing over library books and children's genitals has no business complaining about the fringe cultural fixations of the other party.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 10:08:07 am
Hockey culture is sexist and racist and that's self-evident to anyone who has spent any time within it and the evidence of widespread sexual abuse (Graham James, Kyle Beach's experience, the Hockey Canada shush fund, plus countless other reported incidents) support those observations. The notion that it's no more prevalent than in the rest of society was your claim, one that you've failed to back up again and again and again. that's all I'll say on the subject in this thread.
You claiming that something is self-evident isn’t an argument.  Either is pointing out a couple of instances, when there are instances that take place in the general population at large.  You still haven’t provided evidence that these instances happen at a greater propensity in hockey.  Give it up already.
Regardless, you want evidence that something didn’t happen?  That Cheney didn’t do something?  Please provide evidence that you don’t sexually assault young boys. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 10:13:03 am
You claiming that something is self-evident isn’t an argument.  Either is pointing out a couple of instances, when there are instances that take place in the general population at large. You still haven’t provided evidence that these instances happen at a greater propensity in hockey. Give it up already.

Again, that was your claim, not mine, idiot.

Quote
Regardless, you want evidence that something didn’t happen?  That Cheney didn’t do something?  Please provide evidence that you don’t sexually assault young boys.

I'm asking for evidence that was a factor in her defeat, idiot.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 10:35:00 am
Again, that was your claim, not mine, idiot.

I'm asking for evidence that was a factor in her defeat, idiot.
No, that was your claim.  That’s your claim about so-called hockey culture.  Don’t try to slither away from it now snake.
The evidence is that you cannot find a single instance of her speaking out publicly against Biden policy that her constituents don’t support.  Defending Cheney because you don’t like Trump is peak Libtard.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 10:39:52 am
No, that was your claim.  That’s your claim about so-called hockey culture.  Don’t try to slither away from it now snake.

My claim was that hockey culture is a cesspool. You were the one who whined about it being no worse than the rest of society and said you had the data to prove it, so prove me wrong.

Quote
The evidence is that you cannot find a single instance of her speaking out publicly against Biden policy that her constituents don’t support.

This (https://k2radio.com/cheney-criticizes-bidens-energy-policy-at-congressional-forum/) took me 0.02 seconds to find.

You absolute retard.

Quote
Defending Cheney because you don’t like Trump is peak Libtard.

To repeat what I said earlier:, this isn't about Cheney (because f*ck her) it's about you continuing to make unsubstantiated claims and then running away like the little b*tchass coward you are.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 10:44:56 am
LOL. LMAO.

CHENEY CRITICIZES BIDEN FOR AFGHANISTAN WITHDRAWAL
 (https://k2radio.com/cheney-criticizes-biden-for-afghanistan-withdrawal/)

Liz Cheney criticizes Biden for Putin meeting
 (https://oilcity.news/wyoming/politics/2021/06/17/liz-cheney-criticizes-biden-for-putin-meeting/)

Cheney criticizes President Biden’s executive order (https://buckrail.com/cheney-criticizes-president-bidens-executive-orders/)

Go get your shinebox Shiddy, you loser.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 10:55:08 am
LOL. LMAO.

CHENEY CRITICIZES BIDEN FOR AFGHANISTAN WITHDRAWAL
 (https://k2radio.com/cheney-criticizes-biden-for-afghanistan-withdrawal/)

Liz Cheney criticizes Biden for Putin meeting
 (https://oilcity.news/wyoming/politics/2021/06/17/liz-cheney-criticizes-biden-for-putin-meeting/)

Cheney criticizes President Biden’s executive order (https://buckrail.com/cheney-criticizes-president-bidens-executive-orders/)

Go get your shinebox Shiddy, you loser.
LOL, then why were her campaign adds all about Trump?  Why were her ads of her dad talking about Trump?  Nobody in Wyoming cares about that.  They care about inflation, gas prices, etc.  She campaigned on Trump exclusively, which is why she got crushed.  She sat with Democrats in a kangaroo court, which was a show trial, and DID nothing about Biden's energy policies, that she apparently doesn't like.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 10:58:22 am
My claim was that hockey culture is a cesspool. You were the one who whined about it being no worse than the rest of society and said you had the data to prove it, so prove me wrong.

This (https://k2radio.com/cheney-criticizes-bidens-energy-policy-at-congressional-forum/) took me 0.02 seconds to find.

You absolute retard.

To repeat what I said earlier:, this isn't about Cheney (because f*ck her) it's about you continuing to make unsubstantiated claims and then running away like the little b*tchass coward you are.
A cesspool is subjective.  How is it a cesspool?  How is it different than society as a whole?  What data are you using to come to this conclusion?  Sorry f**k face, I'm not turning over my data, before you've posted anything supporting your claims, other than two f**king instances from decades ago. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 10:59:36 am
Liz Cheney’s final ad to her constituents.

https://youtu.be/ro8rkZ4HQZQ
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 11:14:44 am
LOL, then why were her campaign adds all about Trump?  Why were her ads of her dad talking about Trump?  Nobody in Wyoming cares about that.  They care about inflation, gas prices, etc.  She campaigned on Trump exclusively, which is why she got crushed.  She sat with Democrats in a kangaroo court, which was a show trial, and DID nothing about Biden's energy policies, that she apparently doesn't like.

The evidence is that you cannot find a single instance of her speaking out publicly against Biden policy that her constituents don’t support.

Oops, looks like you staked your position on an easily disprovable claim and are now moving the goalposts and backtracking like the slimy little twerp you are.

You haven't offered a scintilla of proof that Wyoming voters were mad about Cheney neglecting their issues, nothing. It's all obfuscation to pretend this was about something other than a cult disciplining a wayward member.

To spell it out plainly because I know you're extremely dumb: Cheney lost because she was vocally against Trump, but it's not because voters were mad about her neglecting local issues. It's because local voters f*cking love Trump and Trumpism.

A cesspool is subjective.  How is it a cesspool?  How is it different than society as a whole?  What data are you using to come to this conclusion?  Sorry f**k face, I'm not turning over my data, before you've posted anything supporting your claims, other than two f**king instances from decades ago. 

"I'm not going to post the thing that would totally prove me right" is definitely a convincing thing to say and not at all a craven dodge from a known liar and coward.

Oh yeah and about that tWo dEcADes AgO thing...

Quote
A woman who alleged she was sexually assaulted by eight Canadian Hockey League players, including members of Canada’s gold medal-winning 2017-18 World Junior team, has agreed to drop a lawsuit against the players, Hockey Canada, and the CHL after reaching a settlement.

Hockey Canada, CHL settle lawsuit over alleged sexual assault involving World Junior players (https://www.tsn.ca/hockey-canada-chl-settle-lawsuit-over-alleged-sexual-assault-involving-world-junior-players-1.1804861)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 18, 2022, 11:29:20 am
The Daily Show: Fox News... 'Excuse That Crime'! (https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1559318478238220288/vid/1280x720/Dc8hsiYpKtE3upeE.mp4?tag=14)
The walls are closing in!  It’s only a matter of time.

c'mon Shady! You have yet to offer comment... rationale... as to why Trump had those documents (of varying degrees of classified sensitivity) at the "Southern White House". Instead you alternately choose to deflect/distract/obfuscate...

Why did Hillary Clinton have varying degrees of classified material on her illegal private server?  Why did she delete 30,000 emails, that are apparently unrecoverable?

(https://i.imgur.com/VkbsapP.jpg)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 18, 2022, 12:17:13 pm
While I thought it would be hilarious if Cheney didn't concede, it's even funnier that her Trumpcult opponent lied and said she didn't and then got caught when Cheney released the concession phonecall tape

Why are Trumpers such compulsive liars?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 12:44:42 pm
c'mon Shady! You have yet to offer comment... rationale... as to why Trump had those documents (of varying degrees of classified sensitivity) at the "Southern White House". Instead you alternately choose to deflect/distract/obfuscate...

(https://i.imgur.com/VkbsapP.jpg)
So no defence of Hillary then huh?  Not even her illegal private server?  What about form Clinton administration Sandy Berger aka, Sandy Burglar, who literally stuffed classified material in his pants and took it?  https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna7351422

He received a fine!  LOL
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 12:46:49 pm
Oops, looks like you staked your position on an easily disprovable claim and are now moving the goalposts and backtracking like the slimy little twerp you are.

You haven't offered a scintilla of proof that Wyoming voters were mad about Cheney neglecting their issues, nothing. It's all obfuscation to pretend this was about something other than a cult disciplining a wayward member.

To spell it out plainly because I know you're extremely dumb: Cheney lost because she was vocally against Trump, but it's not because voters were mad about her neglecting local issues. It's because local voters f*cking love Trump and Trumpism.

"I'm not going to post the thing that would totally prove me right" is definitely a convincing thing to say and not at all a craven dodge from a known liar and coward.

Oh yeah and about that tWo dEcADes AgO thing...

Hockey Canada, CHL settle lawsuit over alleged sexual assault involving World Junior players (https://www.tsn.ca/hockey-canada-chl-settle-lawsuit-over-alleged-sexual-assault-involving-world-junior-players-1.1804861)
Sorry buddy, but "vote for me cause Trump is bad" isn't a winning strategy.  No matter how much you wanna try and spin it.  As for the lawsuit, so f**king what?  I could link to a thousand in the general public?  You still haven't provided ANY evidence to back up your claim that so-called hockey culture is any different that society as a whole.  I'm losing patience with you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 12:48:19 pm
Sandy Berger, who was President Clinton’s top national security aide, pleaded guilty Friday to taking classified documents from the National Archives and cutting them up with scissors.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna7351422

There's two standards.  One for Trump and his supporters, and one for everybody else.  That's banana republic type sh*t.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 18, 2022, 12:48:34 pm
So no defence of Hillary then huh?  Not even her illegal private server?  What about form Clinton
Whataboutwahataboutwhatabout...Hillary?!?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 18, 2022, 12:49:47 pm
Sandy Berger, who was President Clinton’s top national security aide, pleaded guilty Friday to taking classified documents from the National Archives and cutting them up with scissors.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna7351422

There's two standards.  One for Trump and his supporters, and one for everybody else.  That's banana republic type sh*t.
How come you felt it was appropriate to investigate that but not appropriate to investigate Trump?
I await your cowardly non-answer.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 01:28:13 pm
So no defence of Hillary then huh?  Not even her illegal private server?  What about form Clinton administration Sandy Berger aka, Sandy Burglar, who literally stuffed classified material in his pants and took it?  https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna7351422

He received a fine!  LOL

So your argument is that because these other people were investigated and didn't face sufficient consequences, then Trump shouldn't be investigated?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 01:36:50 pm
Sorry buddy, but "vote for me cause Trump is bad" isn't a winning strategy. 

Maybe not, but that wasn't your argument, f*ckhead.

Quote
As for the lawsuit, so f**king what?  I could link to a thousand in the general public?


The point of the lawsuit was that there are more recent examples than the ones from a few decades ago you were whining about, moron.

Quote
You still haven't provided ANY evidence to back up your claim that so-called hockey culture is any different that society as a whole.  I'm losing patience with you.

Seems to me that if I were actually arguing that sexual assault etc was more prevalent in hockey than in general society and you had data that showed otherwise, you simply posting the data would be a killshot, but for some weird reason you keep dodging. It's like you're totally full of crap or something. Though it is pretty funny to see the guy calling everyone and their dog a "groomer" run interference for sexual predators in the sport.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 01:40:09 pm
Sandy Berger, who was President Clinton’s top national security aide, pleaded guilty Friday to taking classified documents from the National Archives and cutting them up with scissors.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna7351422

There's two standards.  One for Trump and his supporters, and one for everybody else.  That's banana republic type sh*t.

This here is the working of a mind that eats lead paint chips like Doritos.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 01:42:53 pm
This here is the working of a mind that eats lead paint chips like Doritos.
Yes, I admit, Sandy Berger wasn't too bright, but either are you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 01:46:30 pm
So your argument is that because these other people were investigated and didn't face sufficient consequences, then Trump shouldn't be investigated?
I've never said Trump shouldn't be investigated.  But he's been investigated for 6 years now.  He's audited every year for the last 20 years.  At some point it becomes "show me the man and I'll show you the crime" a Soviet style justice system.  Stop applauding it just because it's against someone you don't like.  It could easily be applied so somebody you do like in the future.  That's the problem with you Trump Derangementers, you never like of the precedent you set, and its future application.  It's disgusting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 01:48:11 pm
Maybe not, but that wasn't your argument, f*ckhead.
 

The point of the lawsuit was that there are more recent examples than the ones from a few decades ago you were whining about, moron.

Seems to me that if I were actually arguing that sexual assault etc was more prevalent in hockey than in general society and you had data that showed otherwise, you simply posting the data would be a killshot, but for some weird reason you keep dodging. It's like you're totally full of crap or something. Though it is pretty funny to see the guy calling everyone and their dog a "groomer" run interference for sexual predators in the sport.
Wow, 2018, then what?  2003?  And then what?  An instance in the 90s or 80s.  BFD.  Seems to me if you had any data suggesting that hockey culture is worse than society as a whole, you'd post it, instead of filibustering for pages and pages.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 18, 2022, 01:59:47 pm
  Stop applauding it just because it's against someone you don't like.  It could easily be applied so somebody you do like in the future.  That's the problem with you Trump Derangementers, you never like of the precedent you set, and its future application.  It's disgusting.
But whatabout Benghazi?
Regardless, Trump's home was raided once. You can pretend you didn't squeal with rage about it before hearing why the warrant was granted, but you aren't fooling anyone.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 02:03:43 pm
Yes, I admit, Sandy Berger wasn't too bright, but either are you.

How much time did you spend with the umbilical cord wrapped around your neck to think that a guy pleading guilty in a criminal trial is somehow evidence of a double standard in the application of justice? When you die you should donate your brain to science to see if they can build a microscope powerful enough to detect it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 02:04:57 pm
I've never said Trump shouldn't be investigated.  But he's been investigated for 6 years now.  He's audited every year for the last 20 years. 

He's been investigated for six years because he can't stop doing crimes.

Quote
At some point it becomes "show me the man and I'll show you the crime" a Soviet style justice system. Stop applauding it just because it's against someone you don't like.  It could easily be applied so somebody you do like in the future.  That's the problem with you Trump Derangementers, you never like of the precedent you set, and its future application.  It's disgusting.

Kinda like "lock her up" hey moron?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 02:07:01 pm
Wow, 2018, then what?  2003?  And then what?  An instance in the 90s or 80s.  BFD.

LOL you think these are the only incidents as opposed to just being a few of the high profile ones that have been actually investigated?

You have never actually stepped foot in a hockey locker room or spent any time around anyone who has, have you?

Quote
Seems to me if you had any data suggesting that hockey culture is worse than society as a whole, you'd post it, instead of filibustering for pages and pages.

Again, peabrain, I didn't say I had data: you did.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 02:19:24 pm
LOL you think these are the only incidents as opposed to just being a few of the high profile ones that have been actually investigated?

You have never actually stepped foot in a hockey locker room or spent any time around anyone who has, have you?

Again, peabrain, I didn't say I had data: you did.
You think that the only incidents of sexual assault in society are the one you hear on the news?  I’m just glad that you finally admitted that your claim about so-called hockey culture wasn’t based on any data!  😂😂😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 02:23:11 pm
He's been investigated for six years because he can't stop doing crimes.

Kinda like "lock her up" hey moron?
Which crimes are you referring to?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 02:24:59 pm
You think that the only incidents of sexual assault in society are the one you hear on the news?

That's literally the opposite of what I was saying there you braindead retard.

Quote
I’m just glad that you finally admitted that your claim about so-called hockey culture wasn’t based on any data!  😂😂😂

I literally never said it was.

You, on the other hand, claimed to have data, but we all know you were lying about that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 02:25:24 pm
Which crimes are you referring to?

The one's for which he's being investigated, obviously.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 02:29:58 pm
The one's for which he's being investigated, obviously.
Which crimes are those?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 02:30:26 pm
Which crimes are those?

lol, no.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 02:31:04 pm
That's literally the opposite of what I was saying there you braindead retard.

I literally never said it was.

You, on the other hand, claimed to have data, but we all know you were lying about that.
It's still an infringement of rights, fucktard
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 02:34:10 pm
lol, no.
That's what I thought, you're full of sh*t, talking out of your a** as usual.  LOL!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 02:34:23 pm
It's still an infringement of rights, fucktard

Uh oh looks like ShadyBot 1000 is shorting out. You're seething so hard you can't see straight, just replying with random nonsense now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 02:34:40 pm
That's what I thought, you're full of sh*t, talking out of your a** as usual.  LOL!

Where's the data shitbag.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 02:40:50 pm
Where's the data shitbag.
Where's your data?  Or are you finally going to admit that your claim wasn't based on any?  Are you ready to admit that?  Btw, are any of your takes based on any date, or just your libtard feelings?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 02:41:27 pm
Uh oh looks like ShadyBot 1000 is shorting out. You're seething so hard you can't see straight, just replying with random nonsense now.
Keep defending government infringement on people's freedoms, you sh*t lib.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 02:47:51 pm
Shitlib
A derogatory term used to describe left-wingers that are seen as mainstream and unoriginal in their thinking, repeating the mantras of the media and the intellectual elites in a manner that is perceived as unreflective, unintellgent, and/or self-serving.

Originally a term coined by the dissident right in 2016, it has been picked up and attained wide usage among the dissident left since 2020.
Sally: I'm glad they banned Jason from Twitter for spreading disinformation. I've heard he's compromised to Russia!
David: You've been watching too much Rachel Maddow and it's turned you into an unbearable shitlib.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shitlib
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 02:56:13 pm
While I thought it would be hilarious if Cheney didn't concede, it's even funnier that her Trumpcult opponent lied and said she didn't and then got caught when Cheney released the concession phonecall tape

Why are Trumpers such compulsive liars?
That's been completely debunked.  Why are you such a compulsive liar?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 03:02:54 pm
Where's your data?  Or are you finally going to admit that your claim wasn't based on any?  Are you ready to admit that?  Btw, are any of your takes based on any date, or just your libtard feelings?

lol the lengths you are going to cover up the fact you've got jack all are hilarious. You completely suck at everything you do, it's really remarkable what a massive f*ck up you are.

Adding "muh data" to the Shiddy's greatest s*its list.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 03:04:50 pm
That's been completely debunked.  Why are you such a compulsive liar?

Yes, Hageman lied about her call with Cheney and that lie has been debunked.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 18, 2022, 03:08:06 pm
That's been completely debunked.  Why are you such a compulsive liar?
I will wait for you to find out the truth and laugh as you slink away, like you did when you said Freeland's grandpa was 4th in command of the Nazis.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 03:13:13 pm
I will wait for you to find out the truth and laugh as you slink away, like you did when you said Freeland's grandpa was 4th in command of the Nazis.
I’ve never said he was 4th in command.  Enough lying already.  Now apologize for spreading disinformation.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 03:14:30 pm
Yes, Hageman lied about her call with Cheney and that lie has been debunked.
Just disinformation.  You shouldn't listen to your buddy Blubber Slimy.  He's a compulsive liar.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 03:15:20 pm
lol the lengths you are going to cover up the fact you've got jack all are hilarious. You completely suck at everything you do, it's really remarkable what a massive f*ck up you are.

Adding "muh data" to the Shiddy's greatest s*its list.
Just admit that your claim about so-called hockey culture isn't based on any data, just your feelings.  Then we can finally move on.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 18, 2022, 03:18:22 pm
Just disinformation.  You shouldn't listen to your buddy Blubber Slimy.  He's a compulsive liar.
It's hilarious how you're so stupid and you never learn.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/18/liz-cheney-concession-call-trump-harriet-hageman
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 03:20:05 pm
It's hilarious how you're so stupid and you never learn.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/18/liz-cheney-concession-call-trump-harriet-hageman
It's hilarious how you fight against the debunking.  Kind of like the Japanese still fighting WWII on tiny islands decades later!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 18, 2022, 03:23:14 pm
It's hilarious how you fight against the debunking.  Kind of like the Japanese still fighting WWII on tiny islands decades later!
What "debunking" is that? Is it stored with the data you claim proves hockey culture is no worse than among the general public?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 03:24:17 pm
Just admit that your claim about so-called hockey culture isn't based on any data, just your feelings.  Then we can finally move on.

Post your data, loser.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 03:29:37 pm
I’ve never said he was 4th in command. 

This you?

(https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=725.0;attach=1361;image)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 03:40:45 pm
This you?
I've never believed that he was 4th in line.  Definitely a Nazi though.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 18, 2022, 04:00:11 pm
I accept your inability to cite the "debunking" as an admission you were lied to and fooled again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 04:11:02 pm
I've never believed that he was 4th in line. Definitely a Nazi though.

"I don't believe the things I post" is the first accurate thing you've written on this board.

If one was trying to simply prove Freedland's dido was a Nazi collaborator, a normal person would simply post a link to one of the numerous articles out there on the subject, but you're such a dumb freak you had to post a janky screenshot of a Twitter post.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 05:22:24 pm
Any of these dudes gonna apologize for lying?

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 18, 2022, 05:46:08 pm
Who's Hunter Biden? I thought the president's name is Joe.

BTW, who owns the New York Post?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 06:39:08 pm
Federal judge orders the release of parts of the FBI’s affidavit that they were hoping to keep hidden.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 07:28:20 pm
The one's for which he's being investigated, obviously.
I’m still waiting for the list of crimes you claim Trump has committed.  Please post your list as soon as possible.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 18, 2022, 07:40:45 pm
Check out your previous post and read what they release.
But you're really going to ask for a list of crimes while ignoring the request for more information on how Cheney's story was debunked? Really? That's pretty lame, even for you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 07:52:07 pm
Check out your previous post and read what they release.
But you're really going to ask for a list of crimes while ignoring the request for more information on how Cheney's story was debunked? Really? That's pretty lame, even for you.
I posted a tweet.  All you had to do was read it.  But hey maybe you can provide Black Douche’s list of all the crimes Trump has committed.  Oh and if he’s committed so many crimes, why hasn’t he been charged with any?  That’s kind of weird.

Don’t worry though guys, I can feel that the walls are closing in! 😂🤣
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 08:18:19 pm
I’m still waiting for the list of crimes you claim Trump has committed.  Please post your list as soon as possible.

Maybe if you hold your breath, fucko.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 18, 2022, 08:34:40 pm
I posted a tweet. 
Uh...no.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 18, 2022, 08:37:25 pm
Federal judge orders the release of parts of the FBI’s affidavit that they were hoping to keep hidden.

no, you misinforming Trumpkin! Per Politico: There was NO ORDER today - the judge did NOT order the unsealing of the Mar-a-Lago affidavit. He said he was inclined to at least partially unseal it, but wanted to see proposed redactions from the FBI.

as for the want of federal DOJ prosecutors to keep the affidavit sealed: In a court filing they wrote - The search warrant affidavit contains “highly sensitive information” that could compromise the “ongoing law enforcement investigation that implicates national security”.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 18, 2022, 08:52:03 pm
c'mon Shady! You have yet to offer comment... rationale... as to why Trump had those documents (of varying degrees of classified sensitivity) at the "Southern White House". Instead you alternately choose to deflect/distract/obfuscate...

(https://i.imgur.com/VkbsapP.jpg)

c'mon Shady! Put aside your whataboutism and take your 'Hillary Card' back. Why would Trump have all those (varying degrees of) classified documents at his home in Florida - what intent did he have for them? Now I already posted a Daily Show video that had Trump's GOP apologists and Fox News enablers repeating the same ridiculous "excuses" (lies and talking points) as to why he had classified documents at his personal home... but what about you, hey Shady? What say you?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 18, 2022, 09:39:02 pm
Perhaps this is the tweet shady is referring to? Where the nonbinary Joker impersonator is caught lying?
https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1560333286236475400?t=enmvFKi8UuSw2-SYDoaHEw&s=19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 10:39:02 pm
no, you misinforming Trumpkin! Per Politico: There was NO ORDER today - the judge did NOT order the unsealing of the Mar-a-Lago affidavit. He said he was inclined to at least partially unseal it, but wanted to see proposed redactions from the FBI.

as for the want of federal DOJ prosecutors to keep the affidavit sealed: In a court filing they wrote - The search warrant affidavit contains “highly sensitive information” that could compromise the “ongoing law enforcement investigation that implicates national security”.
Lol, the ol’national security card!  Sorry, we can’t show you anything, because, err, um, national security!  Complete bullocks.  Release the facking affidavit.  This is a GD democracy not a facking police state, even though people like you are fighting hard to make it that way.  You’re another mouthpiece for the security state.  Muh security!!!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 10:44:26 pm
c'mon Shady! Put aside your whataboutism and take your 'Hillary Card' back. Why would Trump have all those (varying degrees of) classified documents at his home in Florida - what intent did he have for them? Now I already posted a Daily Show video that had Trump's GOP apologists and Fox News enablers repeating the same ridiculous "excuses" (lies and talking points) as to why he had classified documents at his personal home... but what about you, hey Shady? What say you?
You hit the nail on the head.  Varying degrees of classified documents.  The devil is in the details as to the level of classified material, and why it’s classified, and whether or not Trump had the authority to de-classify them.  Now that I’ve answered that, why do you think Hillary set up a private server?  Why were 30,000 emails deleted in a way rendering them unrecoverable?  What would you say if Trump had done that?  I think we know the answer.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 10:45:38 pm
Uh...no.
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 10:54:26 pm
Btw, let’s not forget that the FBI literally fabricated evidence in their affidavits in order to get a FISA warrant on Carter Page.  The individual who falsified affidavit evidence to illegally spy on an American citizen, and lied to a judge to obtain said warrant received a slap on the wrist.  Ain’t it amazing what the powerful can get away with when you’re part of the security state?!!!!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 11:04:20 pm
FBI lawyer who doctored Carter Page email gets year of probation
https://nypost.com/2021/01/29/fbi-lawyer-who-doctored-carter-page-email-gets-probation/amp/


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 18, 2022, 11:07:01 pm
The DOJ now believes it didn't have probable cause to think Carter Page might be acting as an agent of a foreign power, which was required to surveil him.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1121406

Oops, they didn’t actually have probable cause.  Oh well right?  😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 18, 2022, 11:15:06 pm
Ah look it thinks it’s people.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 18, 2022, 11:36:18 pm
Lol, the ol’national security card!  Sorry, we can’t show you anything, because, err, um, national security!  Complete bullocks.  Release the facking affidavit.  This is a GD democracy not a facking police state, even though people like you are fighting hard to make it that way.  You’re another mouthpiece for the security state.  Muh security!!!

this is the same judge that authorized the search warrant in the first place... who subsequently was vilified by Trump & acolytes to the nth degree. Now the same judge is being trumpeted as a 'good guy' cause Trumpkins like you falsely believe he ordered the unsealing of a related affidavit - heelarious!

of course it is in the public interest to have criminal investigations go forward unimpeded; something that would be compromised with a full unredacted unsealing of the related affidavit that is said to provide a roadmap to the investigation, that includes sensitive grand jury related information... and even indicates the next steps in the probe.

you're such a gdamn infant shrieking about democracy & a police state when it's typically the norm for an affidavit to remain sealed while an investigation is ongoing!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 18, 2022, 11:51:49 pm
c'mon Shady! You have yet to offer comment... rationale... as to why Trump had those documents (of varying degrees of classified sensitivity) at the "Southern White House". Instead you alternately choose to deflect/distract/obfuscate...

(https://i.imgur.com/VkbsapP.jpg)

c'mon Shady! Put aside your whataboutism and take your 'Hillary Card' back. Why would Trump have all those (varying degrees of) classified documents at his home in Florida - what intent did he have for them? Now I already posted a Daily Show video that had Trump's GOP apologists and Fox News enablers repeating the same ridiculous "excuses" (lies and talking points) as to why he had classified documents at his personal home... but what about you, hey Shady? What say you?

You hit the nail on the head.  Varying degrees of classified documents.  The devil is in the details as to the level of classified material, and why it’s classified, and whether or not Trump had the authority to de-classify them.

if you even remotely follow this shyteshow, you recognize there is no actual paper-trail to support any claims that Trump declassified said documents... that a U.S. President doesn't have the isolated authority to just wave a declassify wand without the involvement of related government departments engaged in a robust formal procedure to declassify documents. Even more hilarious is reading Trumpkins spouting off about a so-called "standing order" that Trump issued - a supposed order that magically declassified classified materials once Trump removed them!

‘Ludicrous.’ ‘Ridiculous.’ ‘A complete fiction.’: Former Trump officials say his claim of ‘standing order’ to declassify is nonsense  (https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/18/politics/trump-claim-standing-order-declassify-nonsense-patently-false-former-officials/index.html)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 19, 2022, 09:55:29 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FadwGc9XoAA1qF3?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 19, 2022, 10:18:42 am
geezaz! The latest TrumpCrimeExcuse has Rudy claiming Trump took the classified documents to preserve them... in a safe place, no less! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1560464417841680384/pu/vid/1280x720/uTWmHbw5If7AHUu2.mp4?tag=12)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 19, 2022, 03:34:17 pm
This is insane.  It’s Russia-gate and the Steele dossier all over again.

FBI Unit Leading Mar-a-Lago Probe Earlier Ran Discredited Trump-Russia Investigation
https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2022/08/18/fbi_unit_leading_mar-a-lago_probe_previously_led_russiagate_hoax_848582.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 19, 2022, 03:34:59 pm
geezaz! The latest TrumpCrimeExcuse has Rudy claiming Trump took the classified documents to preserve them... in a safe place, no less! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1560464417841680384/pu/vid/1280x720/uTWmHbw5If7AHUu2.mp4?tag=12)
The walls are closing in! 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 19, 2022, 03:42:28 pm
This is insane.  It’s Russia-gate and the Steele dossier all over again.

Given "Russiagate" resulted in multiple Trump people taking plea deals and one conviction at trial, maybe not the comparison you want to make.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 19, 2022, 03:57:08 pm
Given "Russiagate" resulted in multiple Trump people taking plea deals and one conviction at trial, maybe not the comparison you want to make.
Nothing related to Russian collusion.  Most of it for “lying” under oath about no underlying crime.  Prosecuting people for differing stories months apart is what police states specialize in.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 19, 2022, 04:13:39 pm
Nothing related to Russian collusion.  Most of it for “lying” under oath about no underlying crime.  Prosecuting people for differing stories months apart is what police states specialize in.

"Anything I don't like is a police state (except actual police states, which I love): a Shiddy Guide to arguing"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 20, 2022, 10:48:53 am
re; Trump's squirreling away of classified documents at Mar-a-Lago: the hits keep coming as Trump now presumes to launch legal action in regards the U.S. 4th Amendment as pertains to search & seizure...

(https://i.imgur.com/oaGXrj7.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 20, 2022, 02:51:49 pm
Aug. 19th - A U.S. Appeals Court ruling finds for the organization Citizens for Ethics - rules for the release of the 'secret DOJ memo' Trump's lapdog Attorney General Bill Barr used to undercut the Mueller Report in regards Trump's obstruction of justice. It was the Citizens for Ethics organization that first launched a 2019 FOI request for the release of the memo... yes Shady, the walls are closing in!

(https://i.imgur.com/nkWg64V.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 23, 2022, 10:03:40 am
Whoops!

Trump Had More Than 300 Classified Documents at Mar-a-Lago
 (https://t.co/C2FVkAkykw)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 23, 2022, 12:29:04 pm
more than 300 classified docs... that seems like a lot. Shady is that a lot?
(https://i.imgur.com/uU5BD52.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 23, 2022, 12:43:08 pm
It was always weird Jared got $2 billion from the Saudis to be a consultant in an area for which he has no expertise. I wonder what LIV golf paid for course fees.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 23, 2022, 01:30:16 pm
more than 300 classified docs... that seems like a lot. Shady is that a lot?
(https://i.imgur.com/uU5BD52.gif)
Ask Hillary.
Regardless, there are different levels of classified, so the devil is really in the details.  Besides, are we supposed to believe this is 1965?  Classified material is generally in digital form, like most things.  So instead of storing these documents on a drive, we’re to believe that they were printed out in paper form and then put in boxes?  Huh? 😂

Hey, remember when the FBI raided Hillary’s house to seize that private server before 30,000 emails could be permanently destroyed?  Yeah, me either. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 23, 2022, 01:32:28 pm
The walls are closing in! 🤣
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 23, 2022, 01:39:28 pm
Regardless, there are different levels of classified, so the devil is really in the details.  Besides, are we supposed to believe this is 1965?  Classified material is generally in digital form, like most things.  So instead of storing these documents on a drive, we’re to believe that they were printed out in paper form and then put in boxes?  Huh? 😂

from 2019 (https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/29/trump-print-newspapers-media-1437913)

Quote
Yet there’s one form of media President Donald Trump consumes to a voracious degree, despite the widespread assumption he’s not much of a reader: the printed word. At a time when the newspaper industry has been hemorrhaging jobs — it has lost thousands nationwide since Trump was elected and nearly half of its total newsroom jobs since 2008, according todata from the Pew Research Center — Trump’s ink-stained reading habits are striking.

They’re also fundamental to understanding his presidency.

In addition to his diet of major newspapers, Trump relies on paper copies of articles culled from elsewhere each day by his staff. The papers and printouts are cherished tools that allow him to monitor the coverage of his administration, reward allies and rebuke critics with dashed-off personal notes.


Quote
Hey, remember when the FBI raided Hillary’s house to seize that private server before 30,000 emails could be permanently destroyed?  Yeah, me either.

The FBI investigated the server thing twice you loser.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 23, 2022, 01:43:10 pm
from 2019 (https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/29/trump-print-newspapers-media-1437913)


The FBI investigated the server thing twice you loser.
Not before 30,000 emails were permanently destroyed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 23, 2022, 01:51:53 pm
Not before 30,000 emails were permanently destroyed.

Why would they investigate her for deleting the emails before the emails were deleted, do you not understand the linear flow if time, you jabbering goon?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 23, 2022, 10:32:45 pm
So Trump and his lawyers filed some sort of.... legal document... asking a bunch of stuff (appoint special master to review documents, have everything returned.) Only problem is, what was submitted was hot garbage that the judge couldn't even figure out...

From: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/23/judge-seeks-clarity-about-trumps-move-on-records-seized-from-mar-a-lago-00053378
In a brief order on Tuesday afternoon, U.S. District Court Judge Aileen Cannon signaled some confusion about the motion Trump’s attorneys filed on Monday asking for an outsider to sift through materials....(Cannon) asked Trump’s attorneys to clarify five aspects of their legal effort ... Cannon didn’t explicitly criticize the 27-page motion...but her requests for clarification seemed to dovetail with criticism from some legal observers who called the submission convoluted, confusing and loaded with heaping servings of political rhetoric unrelated to the legal questions at issue.

Must be some judge appointed by a Democrat, who is obviously trying to interfere with Trump's plans.

Cannon, a Trump appointee who sits in Fort Pierce, Fla...

Oh, never mind.

Hard to have any real sympathy for the lawyers here... after all, everyone knows Trump is the client from hell... when he is not stiffing them, he is ignoring their advice. A lawyer would have to be a fool to take him on as a client. Hard to say how much of this mess is because Trump cannot get decent lawyers anymore, or because even if he does get good ones, he ends up trying to do things "his" way (which is usually the dumb way.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 24, 2022, 11:50:24 am
Ask Hillary.

Regardless, there are different levels of classified, so the devil is really in the details.  Besides, are we supposed to believe this is 1965?  Classified material is generally in digital form, like most things.  So instead of storing these documents on a drive, we’re to believe that they were printed out in paper form and then put in boxes?  Huh? 😂

Hey, remember when the FBI raided Hillary’s house to seize that private server before 30,000 emails could be permanently destroyed?  Yeah, me either.

(https://i.imgur.com/VkbsapP.jpeg)

c'mon Shady, why would Trump steal those classified docs and squirrel them away at the oh so tacky 'Southern White House'? Why, hey!


(https://i.imgur.com/aJ37zHw.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 24, 2022, 11:54:27 am
(https://i.imgur.com/VkbsapP.jpeg)

c'mon Shady, why would Trump steal those classified docs and squirrel them away at the oh so tacky 'Southern White House'? Why, hey!


(https://i.imgur.com/aJ37zHw.jpg)
Do you have the Hillary timeline too?  Btw, why do you think 30,000 emails were permanently destroyed?  Why did the FBI not get to the illegal private server sooner?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 24, 2022, 11:57:28 am
Btw, why would documents that could be stored electronically need to be printed out and stored in boxes?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 24, 2022, 11:59:57 am
Btw, why would documents that could be stored electronically need to be printed out and stored in boxes?

How is the fact that they were printed out at all relevant?

Do you have the Hillary timeline too?  Btw, why do you think 30,000 emails were permanently destroyed?  Why did the FBI not get to the illegal private server sooner?

WHATABOUTWHATABOUTWHATABOUTWHATABOUT
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 24, 2022, 12:06:24 pm
Here's a comprehensive explainer (https://www.axios.com/2022/08/19/trump-documents-mar-a-lago-fbi) as to why the documents are in print:

Quote
The FBI's seizure of 11 sets of classified documents from Mar-a-Lago has raised a litany of questions about presidential records. One of those questions: Why, in the era of digital everything, is the U.S. government still relying so heavily on paper in the first place?

The answer: Much of the classified bureaucracy remains a paper world due in no small part to the security vulnerabilities associated with standard commercial devices, national security lawyer Bradley Moss tells Axios.

Classified databases and email accounts that meet the federal government's cybersecurity requirements exist, of course, but they generally require sitting at a terminal and viewing the information on a screen. Paper can be a lot easier to work with in a meeting.

The President's Daily Brief — a comprehensive and highly classified written summary of U.S. intelligence — was printed out onto physical paper every day until 2012, when it began to be administered via iPads that former President Obama and his inner circle could swipe through in the Oval Office.

That changed with Trump, a notorious technophobe with a short attention span who preferred to be briefed orally on a select few intelligence issues.

"On most days, Trump's PDB comprised three one-page items describing new developments abroad, plus brief updates of ongoing crises in the Middle East," according to an account published by the CIA's Center for the Study of Intelligence.

Despite his general resistance to studying intelligence, Trump reportedly sought to hold onto some of the more riveting documents he was personally interested in.

The fact that this article exists and Shiddy is bringing it up can only mean there's some right-wing kook conspiracy theory about these documents out there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 24, 2022, 12:20:04 pm
Here's a comprehensive explainer (https://www.axios.com/2022/08/19/trump-documents-mar-a-lago-fbi) as to why the documents are in print:

The fact that this article exists and Shiddy is bringing it up can only mean there's some right-wing kook conspiracy theory about these documents out there.
Then why was Hillary able to get in email form?  Regardless, couldn’t the paper documents just get scanned?  Regardless, they must exist in electronic form in some manner, unless you still think they’re typed on type writers.  Give it a rest already, you’re a clown.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 24, 2022, 12:21:25 pm
How is the fact that they were printed out at all relevant?

WHATABOUTWHATABOUTWHATABOUTWHATABOUT
Because that doesn’t make any sense, when it’s much easier to store them on a drive.  You people aren’t making any sense.  I get it.  You hate Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 24, 2022, 01:23:34 pm
Then why was Hillary able to get in email form?

Get what in email form?

Quote
Regardless, couldn’t the paper documents just get scanned?  Regardless, they must exist in electronic form in some manner, unless you still think they’re typed on type writers.  Give it a rest already, you’re a clown.

who cares, how is this relevant?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 24, 2022, 01:24:58 pm
Because that doesn’t make any sense, when it’s much easier to store them on a drive.  You people aren’t making any sense.  I get it.  You hate Trump.

You're retarded. Like what's even the argument here, that the documents they hauled away were fake?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 24, 2022, 01:31:03 pm
Get what in email form?

who cares, how is this relevant?
Classified material.  It’s very relevant.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 24, 2022, 01:35:50 pm
You're retarded. Like what's even the argument here, that the documents they hauled away were fake?
Sounds like the Steele dossier all over again.  You never learn do you?  You’re like the guinea pig that takes the pellet and gets shocked, over and over and over again.  But never learns.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 24, 2022, 01:40:40 pm
Classified material.  It’s very relevant.

You're basically just throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks here, aren't you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 24, 2022, 01:42:42 pm
Sounds like the Steele dossier all over again.  You never learn do you?  You’re like the guinea pig that takes the pellet and gets shocked, over and over and over again.  But never learns.

Steele Dossier! Hillary's emails! Hunter's laptop!  WHATABOUTWHATABOUTWHATABOUT

You're a stuck record playing the world's shittiest song, no arguments, no ideas just noise.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 24, 2022, 02:19:22 pm
You're basically just throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks here, aren't you.
How is acknowledging that Hillary had classified material on her private server crap?  Why are you being so obtuse?  Is it deliberate?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 24, 2022, 02:30:39 pm
Steele Dossier! Hillary's emails! Hunter's laptop!  WHATABOUTWHATABOUTWHATABOUT

You're a stuck record playing the world's shittiest song, no arguments, no ideas just noise.
The Steele dossier, which ended up being debunked, was used for four years as an excuse to investigate Trump.  It was also used to push false story after false story.  The same group that was behind the Steele dossier investigation is now tasked with this new investigation.  And just a reminder, that this same group falsified evidence to lie to a judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant.  You’re pro-authoritarian pea brain might be able to excuse that, but I can’t.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 24, 2022, 03:30:07 pm
About as "debunked" as Cheney's concession and the nonbinary Joker impressionist who lied about it?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 24, 2022, 03:49:05 pm
About as "debunked" as Cheney's concession and the nonbinary Joker impressionist who lied about it?
Keep fighting the good fight! 😂😂😂

The Steele dossier: A reckoning
But five years later, the credibility of the dossier has significantly diminished.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/11/18/politics/steele-dossier-reckoning/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 24, 2022, 04:08:08 pm
If you were more literate, you would have read the article and saw that it says much of the dossier (like the pee tape) "could not be corroborated", not that it was debunked. That's a big difference among those who can read.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 24, 2022, 04:30:58 pm
How is acknowledging that Hillary had classified material on her private server crap?  Why are you being so obtuse?  Is it deliberate?

It's as irrelevant to the issue at hand as all your opinions. it certainly has no bearing on the fact Trump likes stuff printed out.

The Steele dossier, which ended up being debunked, was used for four years as an excuse to investigate Trump.  It was also used to push false story after false story.  The same group that was behind the Steele dossier investigation is now tasked with this new investigation.  And just a reminder, that this same group falsified evidence to lie to a judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant.  You’re pro-authoritarian pea brain might be able to excuse that, but I can’t.

So the position you're staking here is that the boxes of documents the FBI hauled out of Mar-a-lago were fake/planted? Let's see how that plays out.

One last thing on the Steele dossier from your link to the Fake News Failing CNN article:

Quote
Looking at the big picture, Steele was right that Russia used "trusted agents of influence" to target Trump's inner circle. And he was correct to suspect there were secret contacts between Trump aides and Russian officials, even though Trump denied any Russian ties.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 24, 2022, 04:45:42 pm
If you were more literate, you would have read the article and saw that it says much of the dossier (like the pee tape) "could not be corroborated", not that it was debunked. That's a big difference among those who can read.
I’ve heard that your pee-pee tape can’t be corroborated either.  Can you prove that one doesn’t exist?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 24, 2022, 05:42:52 pm
I’ve heard that your pee-pee tape can’t be corroborated either.  Can you prove that one doesn’t exist?
Are you saying you don't believe it exists? Really?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 25, 2022, 01:07:57 pm
oh my! Shady, why is Trumpy so cranky, hey?

(https://i.imgur.com/jaTV3Dq.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 25, 2022, 01:21:08 pm
oh my! Shady, why is Trumpy so cranky, hey?

(https://i.imgur.com/jaTV3Dq.gif)
I'm not sure, why was Hillary so cranky in 2016?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 25, 2022, 01:55:31 pm
Hillary never sold the names of U.S. spies to the Saudis for billions of dollars.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 25, 2022, 02:19:04 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/GofWppL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 25, 2022, 02:21:30 pm
Hillary never sold the names of U.S. spies to the Saudis for billions of dollars.
Who has?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 25, 2022, 02:26:32 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/GofWppL.jpg)
The walls are closing in, right waldo!?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 25, 2022, 02:49:49 pm
Trumpy meltdown today! Geezaz Shady, word on the street says Trump has been advised he's an investigation target - oh my, hey!

(https://i.imgur.com/r3qg7ku.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 25, 2022, 02:55:21 pm
Trumpy meltdown today! Geezaz Shady, word on the street says Trump has been advised he's an investigation target - oh my, hey!

(https://i.imgur.com/r3qg7ku.gif)
The walls are closing in! 😂😂😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 25, 2022, 03:04:59 pm
Three rage faces? You seem upset.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 25, 2022, 03:33:10 pm
Three rage faces? You seem upset.

His BlackBerry won't let him add any more.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 25, 2022, 03:38:38 pm
His BlackBerry won't let him add any more.
What the fack is a blackberry? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 25, 2022, 03:52:06 pm
What the fack is a blackberry? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

You know we all know you're at least middle-aged, right?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 26, 2022, 04:24:49 pm
meltdown and/or panic!

(https://i.imgur.com/eLNXwDh.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 27, 2022, 08:38:04 am
None of the latest seems to amount to enough to erode Dear Leader 's image in the eyes of his cult.

Perhaps the tedium of perpetual scandal will continue to wear his welcome away.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 27, 2022, 10:22:57 am
(https://i.imgur.com/O2S0Kpo.gif)

breach after breach of the security sieve that is Trumpy's Mar-a-Lago home:
Miami Herald Aug 12 - The long list of episodes that stoked security concerns at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago (https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article264450116.html)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 27, 2022, 11:07:56 am
(https://i.imgur.com/O2S0Kpo.gif)

breach after breach of the security sieve that is Trumpy's Mar-a-Lago home:
Miami Herald Aug 12 - The long list of episodes that stoked security concerns at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago (https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article264450116.html)
The walls are closing in! 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 27, 2022, 12:41:07 pm
They certainly are.
I am particularly enjoying watching the traitors defend compromising U.S. spies.
https://twitter.com/highbrow_nobrow/status/1563549407299383304?t=xHbzMHh1kwtqwZIxZ8-wJA&s=19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 27, 2022, 12:46:14 pm
So Mark Zuckerberg tells Joe Rogan that Facebook algorithmically censored the Hunter Biden laptop story for 7 days based on a general request from the FBI, and the left is ok with this because orange man bad.  An arm of the federal government telling private companies to censor information before an election.  Information that was true.  You libs are the sh*ttiest shitlibs I’ve ever seen.  Any principles go out the door when it comes to your hatred of Donald Trump.  It’s a terrible precedent set, and don’t be surprised or complain when it’s used in reverse.

Keep destroying democracy in the name of democracy! 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 27, 2022, 12:55:59 pm
Even Bill Maher who hates Trump acknowledges how dangerous this is.  But he’s not an alt-left wokie, so he still has traditional Liberal principles like free speech etc.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/bill-maher-blasts-conspiracy-to-bury-hunter-biden-laptop-tells-liberal-guest-to-watch-more-than-msnbc/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 27, 2022, 01:26:41 pm
It’s a terrible precedent set, and don’t be surprised or complain when it’s used in reverse. Keep destroying democracy in the name of democracy! 😂

"used in reverse", hey Shady! Remember the time late in the election cycle when Clinton lost her polling lead after the FBI Director announced she was being investigated? And waldo, remember at the very same time the FBI was also investigating Trump but never mentioned it... not a single peep. Was that fair Shady? Was that fair having the FBI give Cheeto a free pass while the swarms, for weeks on end, flooded the mainstream media and social networks about the FBI investigating Clinton?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 27, 2022, 04:15:28 pm
Pretty damning evidence though.

7/31/2019: Trump speaks with Putin.

8/3/2019: Trump issues a request for a list of top US spies.

10/5/2021: CIA reports losing dozens of informants.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 27, 2022, 10:47:54 pm
So Mark Zuckerberg tells Joe Rogan that Facebook algorithmically censored the Hunter Biden laptop story for 7 days based on a general request from the FBI, and the left is ok with this because orange man bad.  An arm of the federal government telling private companies to censor information before an election.  Information that was true.  You libs are the sh*ttiest shitlibs I’ve ever seen.  Any principles go out the door when it comes to your hatred of Donald Trump.  It’s a terrible precedent set, and don’t be surprised or complain when it’s used in reverse.

Keep destroying democracy in the name of democracy! 😂

you continue to {purposely} misinform on this - that's you being an azzhole, hey! Again, no "arm of the U.S. federal government told a private company (in this case Meta) to censor information. Again:

BREAKING: Mark Zuckerberg ADMITS Facebook suppressed Hunter Biden story after FBI warning

let the waldo count the ways you're a misinforming twit!
=> FBI warning was generalized to Meta to be wary of Russian propaganda ahead of the November 2020 election
=> at the time, more than 50 former senior intelligence officials signed a letter claiming the laptop story 'had all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation.'
=> "suppressed" didn't ban/block the related story; rather it was 'pushed down' in users newsfeeds
=> story 'push down' was for a weeks period only... until more information came forward to indicate whether the story was true or not
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 29, 2022, 10:43:12 am
Lindsay Graham threatens warns of "riots in the streets (https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1564029020995469312?s=20&t=nvq_XUSsmPuEqVqlfyXTgQ)" if Trump is prosecuted.

Weird how, after spending most of 2020 crying about BLM riots, the right has decided that violence and riots is an acceptable means of getting their way.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 29, 2022, 10:53:39 am
Lindsay Graham threatens warns of "riots in the streets (https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1564029020995469312?s=20&t=nvq_XUSsmPuEqVqlfyXTgQ)" if Trump is prosecuted.

Weird how, after spending most of 2020 crying about BLM riots, the right has decided that violence and riots is an acceptable means of getting their way.
Probably because they saw that those riots were allowed to carry on, with minimal pushback.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 29, 2022, 10:59:49 am
Probably because they saw that those riots were allowed to carry on, with minimal pushback.

mINimAl PuShbAck (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/20/us/protests-policing-george-floyd.html)

Quote
For many long weeks last summer, protesters in American cities faced off against their own police forces in what proved to be, for major law enforcement agencies across the country, a startling display of violence and disarray.

In Philadelphia, police sprayed tear gas on a crowd of mainly peaceful protesters trapped on an interstate who had nowhere to go and no way to breathe. In Chicago, officers were given arrest kits so old that the plastic handcuffs were decayed or broken. Los Angeles officers were issued highly technical foam-projectile launchers for crowd control, but many of them had only two hours of training; one of the projectiles bloodied the eye of a homeless man in a wheelchair. Nationally, at least eight people were blinded after being hit with police projectiles.

Now, months after the demonstrations that followed the killing of George Floyd by the Minneapolis police in May, the full scope of the country’s policing response is becoming clearer. More than a dozen after-action evaluations have been completed, looking at how police departments responded to the demonstrations — some of them chaotic and violent, most peaceful — that broke out in hundreds of cities between late May and the end of August.

In city after city, the reports are a damning indictment of police forces that were poorly trained, heavily militarized and stunningly unprepared for the possibility that large numbers of people would surge into the streets, moved by the graphic images of Mr. Floyd’s death under a police officer’s knee.

Of course nothing Republicans/the right ever do is their fault, according to them, it's always "look at what you made me do." The party of personal responsibility is never personally responsible for anything, it's always the fault of Democrats/the left.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 29, 2022, 11:13:35 am
mINimAl PuShbAck (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/20/us/protests-policing-george-floyd.html)

Of course nothing Republicans/the right ever do is their fault, according to them, it's always "look at what you made me do." The party of personal responsibility is never personally responsible for anything, it's always the fault of Democrats/the left.
Your isolated incidents don’t negate the fact that these riots were allowed to go on for several months, with very few people being charged with crimes.  Most were released without bail to riot some more.  Rioters were literally outside of the Portland courthouse for a year, rioting every night.  The mainstream media referred to these riots as mostly peaceful.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 29, 2022, 11:27:51 am
(https://i.imgur.com/6S8yV8C.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 29, 2022, 11:30:09 am
Your isolated incidents don’t negate the fact that these riots were allowed to go on for several months, with very few people being charged with crimes.  Most were released without bail to riot some more.  Rioters were literally outside of the Portland courthouse for a year, rioting every night.  The mainstream media referred to these riots as mostly peaceful.

Complete nonsense. You're the guy who thought that there was only one incident of tear gas being used against peaceful protests so your ignorance on this matter is well documented, as is your willingness to minimize or justify political violence from the right (like the time you described Ashli Babbitt as "an unarmed woman walking around the capital building" and not a member of a violent mob trying to force their way into the Chamber of the U.S. House of Representatives) while exaggerating the level of violence from the left.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 29, 2022, 12:13:38 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/6S8yV8C.jpeg)
He’s under no requirement to publicly say anything.  Nice try though!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 29, 2022, 01:14:55 pm
sure, sure... c'mon Shadyman: why did loser Trump take classified docs when he left the WH?; why didn't he return them all in the 'first batch' given to the FBI back in January?; why did Trump lie and say he did return all the documents?; in the 18+ months he had them, what was Trump doing with all those documents?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 29, 2022, 01:17:26 pm
orangemangrifter!

(https://i.imgur.com/JocX30g.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 29, 2022, 01:21:11 pm
sure, sure... c'mon Shadyman: why did loser Trump take classified docs when he left the WH?; why didn't he return them all in the 'first batch' given to the FBI back in January?; why did Trump lie and say he did return all the documents?; in the 18+ months he had them, what was Trump doing with all those documents?
Why did Hillary have classified documents on her illegal private server?  Who knows?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 29, 2022, 01:58:09 pm
Why did Hillary have classified documents on her illegal private server?  Who knows?

I’m guessing the Secretary of State would need access to classified material but a former president does not.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 29, 2022, 01:59:30 pm
Why did Hillary have classified documents on her illegal private server?  Who knows?

(https://i.imgur.com/M4Las8q.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 29, 2022, 02:38:37 pm
I’m guessing the Secretary of State would need access to classified material but a former president does not.
So you’re under the assumption that any classified material Trump possesses is material that was from after his term ended?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 29, 2022, 03:02:13 pm
So you’re under the assumption that any classified material Trump possesses is material that was from after his term ended?

My assumption is he shouldn't have been in possession of any classified material after his term ended regardless of when he got it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 29, 2022, 03:09:29 pm
My assumption is he shouldn't have been in possession of any classified material after his term ended regardless of when he got it.
Well that remains to be seen.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 29, 2022, 03:09:58 pm
Well that remains to be seen.

Are you disputing that he was in possession of classified material?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 30, 2022, 10:43:52 am
orangemangrifter!

(Article about problems with Trump's Truth Social trimmed for size...
Failure to pay bills, inability to register trademark, drop in stock prices)
I am shocked, shocked I tell you!

Trump is a financial genius. We know that because he keeps telling us! How can a Trump-related business be having such difficulties? I have never heard of such things happening before!

Well, except for multiple Trump casinos that went bankrupt.
And Trump university, which was found to be a big scam.
And Trump mortgage, which soon went out of business.
And Trump's airline. And Trump vodka.  Trump magazine. Trump's travel website. Trump steaks. Trump foundation.

But apart from that, Trump's business success is assured!

Oh, and Trump steaks. Trump network multi-level marketing company.

So its obvious that it must not be Trump's fault that his Truth Social is failing, given all his successes.

Did I mention the Trump foundation? Must have overlooked it.

But the Trump organization is on firm footing! Well, except for the whole "tax fraud" thing they have going on.

I guess what I'm hinting at is... why did anyone invest in this thinking it would be a success, when Trump is basically a financial disaster?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 30, 2022, 01:28:16 pm
Well that remains to be seen.

Not really.

https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 30, 2022, 09:08:19 pm
LOL he's melting down (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-shares-barrage-qanon-content-conspiracy-theories-social-media-pl-rcna45465).

Quote
Former President Donald Trump spent Tuesday morning posting inflammatory messages on social media, including many explicitly promoting the QAnon conspiracy theory.

While Trump has in the past promoted QAnon-inspired accounts and theories, the posts on his Truth Social account were his most explicit, unobscured, QAnon-promoting and QAnon-baiting posts to date.

In one, he reposted the QAnon slogan — “Where We Go One We Go All.” In another, he re-posted a 2017 message from “Q” that’s critical of the intelligence community. The QAnon conspiracy theory was built around Q, an anonymous account that posts periodically on 8kun, often with vague or symbolic language that is then interpreted by followers. The account claims to document a secret battle being waged by Trump against the Democratic Party, which followers of the theory contend is run by satanic, child-eating cannibals who run a **** ring filled with celebrities and political elites who have been covertly running the United States government for decades. None of the posts’ concrete predictions have come to fruition.

In addition to the QAnon-adjacent posts, Trump shared several conspiracy theories Tuesday on his Truth Social site and he re-posted a picture of Biden, Vice President Kamala Harris and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, with the words “Your enemy is not in Russia” written in black bars over their eyes.

The posting spree comes one day after Trump posted a message that he should be reinstated as president — “Declare the rightful winner, or hold a new Election, NOW!” — and as he’s come under increased scrutiny from federal investigators who executed a search warrant at his Florida resort earlier this month and recovered troves of classified documents.
...
On Tuesday, he re-posted items about the Jan. 6 riot being orchestrated by the FBI and antifa, and made a false claim about the wife of a man named Ray Epps, who has been accused in right-wing conspiracy theories of being a federal agent who egged on Capitol rioters. The House committee investigating the riot has disputed those claims.


Here's the best bit:

Quote
Trump also re-posted a message from a user falsely claiming to be his daughter Ivanka who was complaining about “the useless vaccines.” (Ivanka Trump has been a strong supporter of the Covid-19 vaccine).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 31, 2022, 04:59:21 am
More damning information about the files he took.

The lawyers seem to have been in on keeping the DOJ away I guess?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 31, 2022, 10:00:25 am
LOL he's melting down (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-shares-barrage-qanon-content-conspiracy-theories-social-media-pl-rcna45465).

Here's the best bit:
Trump also re-posted a message from a user falsely claiming to be his daughter Ivanka who was complaining about “the useless vaccines.” (Ivanka Trump has been a strong supporter of the Covid-19 vaccine).
Yet somehow we are constantly told by the MAGAchud how supposedly Biden is the one suffering from mental decline.

I wonder if Biden has ever misidentified one of his kids?

Maybe the problem is Ivanka wasn't on that Dementia test that Trump took (the ones where he had to identify various animals and remember 5 words.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 31, 2022, 10:20:34 am
Yet somehow we are constantly told by the MAGAchud how supposedly Biden is the one suffering from mental decline.

I wonder if Biden has ever misidentified one of his kids?

Maybe the problem is Ivanka wasn't on that Dementia test that Trump took (the ones where he had to identify various animals and remember 5 words.)
Biden absolutely IS suffering from mental decline.  That’s not even debatable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 31, 2022, 10:21:05 am
More damning information about the files he took.

The lawyers seem to have been in on keeping the DOJ away I guess?
The walls are closing in!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 31, 2022, 10:23:00 am
The walls are closing in!

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTULpMtJHQaId18NM-A5RoF2OCC1IUo1D3bVg&usqp=CAU)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 31, 2022, 10:25:02 am
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTULpMtJHQaId18NM-A5RoF2OCC1IUo1D3bVg&usqp=CAU)
I’ve been hearing it for 6 years now.  Sh*t or get off the pot.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 31, 2022, 10:37:17 am
I’ve been hearing it for 6 years now.  Sh*t or get off the pot.

You've been crying about Hillary's emails for even longer than that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 31, 2022, 10:39:27 am
You've been crying about Hillary's emails for even longer than that.
Complete nonsense.  I refer to that when anyone brings up Trump because it’s relevant.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 31, 2022, 11:01:23 am
Complete nonsense.  I refer to that when anyone brings up Trump because it’s relevant.

It's whataboutism. You should know what that is since you whine about it all the time.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 31, 2022, 09:58:14 pm
ya ya - as Trumpy says, the FBI evidentiary photo is "very deceiving":

(https://i.imgur.com/4sNILGq.jpg)

surprisingly... Trumpkins are mocking the security risks posed by the TIME magazine covers or claiming the FBI 'planted' the docs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 01, 2022, 08:32:08 am
Some online commenters are using their TDS-fueled channels (relax - I have TDS myself, it's treatable and can be managed :) ) to deep dive into the reactions of other Republicans.

As the drip-drip-drip of these investigations continues, and Trump quietly becomes more unglued (TruthSocialling that the FBI needs to revolt against higher-ups, quoting QAnon, etc.) Republicans are quietly stepping back and removing references to the election being stolen.

THIS is what progress looks like.  Because sane people are embarrassed to be associated with the unhinged.  But they disassociate themselves quietly and not to call attention.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 01, 2022, 12:39:00 pm
Republicans notably silent... (https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-presidential-elections-mar-a-lago-election-2020-congress-cfcdf3bccd5bd8c008248b19ab299044)

The silence speaks volumes for a party whose president won the White House after rousing voters in rally chants of “Lock Her Up!” Trump pilloried Democratic opponent Hillary Clinton for using a personal email account and server during her time as Secretary of State. She quickly complied with investigators and was not charged.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on September 01, 2022, 01:52:30 pm
Republicans notably silent... (https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-presidential-elections-mar-a-lago-election-2020-congress-cfcdf3bccd5bd8c008248b19ab299044)

The silence speaks volumes for a party whose president won the White House after rousing voters in rally chants of “Lock Her Up!” Trump pilloried Democratic opponent Hillary Clinton for using a personal email account and server during her time as Secretary of State. She quickly complied with investigators and was not charged.
Is destroying tens of thousands of emails quickly complying?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 01, 2022, 02:55:27 pm
c'mon Shady! Trump is long gone from the White House - what's he doing with all those classified docs?

in yet another self-own, Trump lawyers state the 'special master' they're after should have the highest level security clearance... which runs completely against the earlier claim that Trump declassified all the documents!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 01, 2022, 03:22:07 pm
Is destroying tens of thousands of emails quickly complying?

Probably not but the rest of it is pertinent. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 01, 2022, 04:06:45 pm
As the drip-drip-drip of these investigations continues, and Trump quietly becomes more unglued (TruthSocialling that the FBI needs to revolt against higher-ups, quoting QAnon, etc.) Republicans are quietly stepping back and removing references to the election being stolen.

THIS is what progress looks like.  Because sane people are embarrassed to be associated with the unhinged.  But they disassociate themselves quietly and not to call attention.
I have concerns about whether it really is "progress"....

When republicans try to scrub the insanity from their record, its not like the insanity never existed. And whatever caused the republican to claim "stolen election" in the first place is still lurking in the background, waiting to reappear.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 01, 2022, 04:21:55 pm
Biden absolutely IS suffering from mental decline.  That’s not even debatable.
It's totally debatable. He was never a smooth talker. But speaking of which, what happened to you? Lead pipes in your home?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 02, 2022, 02:13:57 am
CAPTCHA: I'm not a robot

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbmYmcIX0AAWF0o?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on September 02, 2022, 05:30:12 pm
CAPTCHA: I'm not a robot

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbmYmcIX0AAWF0o?format=jpg&name=medium)
Are those all the empty folders?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on September 02, 2022, 05:30:34 pm
Truth.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on September 02, 2022, 06:08:03 pm
Truth.


Hey great choice of image on the left, let's zoom out.

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/07/05/us/politics/06dc-virus-trump-sub/03dc-virus-trump-superJumbo-v5.jpg)

Wait is that the Air Force doing a flyover and the Air Force band playing in the foreground after a speech where Trump said the following:

Quote
"In our schools, our newsrooms, even our corporate boardrooms, there is a new far left fascism that demands absolute allegiance. This left-wing cultural revolution is designed to overthrow the American Revolution. The violent mayhem we have seen in the streets and cities that are run by liberal Democrats in every case is the predictable result of years of extreme indoctrination and bias in education, journalism, and other cultural institutions."

Is that using the military as a prop for a partisan speech? WHERE'S MY FAINTING COUCH
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 02, 2022, 06:56:58 pm
Are those all the empty folders?
Who do you think now has what was in the empty folders? As this gets worse and worse, I look forward to watching you defend espionage for profit and exposing spies so they can be murdered. Should be hilarious.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 03, 2022, 12:09:56 pm
Who do you think now has what was in the empty folders? As this gets worse and worse, I look forward to watching you defend espionage for profit and exposing spies so they can be murdered. Should be hilarious.

It will be interesting to hear how Trump tries to spin this

Quote
The inventory shows that 43 empty folders with classified banners were taken from a box or container at the office, along with an additional 28 empty folders labeled as "Return to Staff Secretary" or military aide. Empty folders of that nature were also found in a storage closet.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 04, 2022, 02:18:39 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/c74tTVI.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 04, 2022, 02:41:49 pm
Trump seeing that even his lackeys are having trouble answering the, 'but why did he have them', question... offers up yet another 'excuse' in that he intended the documents to be a part of his eventual, "Trump Presidential Library"! So... he's gone from:
- denying he had any classified documents when the National Archives first contacted him in 2020, to;
- claiming he's been cooperating significantly with the FBI when first contacted in 2021, to;
- claiming that the FBI planted the documents in his Mar-a-Lago home after they exercised the warrant, to;
- claiming all the documents, including the classified ones are his, to;
- claiming he declassified all the documents, that he had issued a "standing order" that any document taken from the White House was automatically declassified
- to now his latest claim that they were intended for his, as yet unbuilt, Presidential Library

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fb0lC2EXgAAtdbd?format=jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 04, 2022, 04:40:31 pm
Wow...

That's also nonsensical.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 06, 2022, 10:25:05 am
This is clearly the reason why they feel the need to talk about Hunter Biden's past substance abuse issues.

https://twitter.com/MollyJongFast/status/1567116232360427523?t=t1y8mrgJM2iU3l8mDnmcZQ&s=19

And he really doesn't know China already has nukes?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on September 06, 2022, 11:45:48 am
This is clearly the reason why they feel the need to talk about Hunter Biden's past substance abuse issues.

https://twitter.com/MollyJongFast/status/1567116232360427523?t=t1y8mrgJM2iU3l8mDnmcZQ&s=19

And he really doesn't know China already has nukes?

Watching Jr adopt Sr's style and tics is particularly funny when you remember Sr hates Jr.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 07, 2022, 05:30:21 pm
Re: MAGAchud bringing up Clinton's emails when Trump's mishandling of classified documents is brought up.
It's whataboutism. You should know what that is since you whine about it all the time.
Actually I wouldn't even characterize Clinton's emails as "whataboutism". To me whataboutism involves bringing up something of roughly equal impact (such as "you kicked me in the shin"... "Well what about when you stepped on my foot?")

A whataboutism would be "Clinton's Emails"... "Well what about when Kushner used private emails for government business?"

From: https://www.npr.org/2019/03/21/705561586/kushner-used-private-email-to-conduct-official-business-house-committee-says
Jared Kushner's attorney told the House Committee on Oversight and Reform that Kushner uses private messaging applications and personal email to communicate about official White House matters... The oversight panel said that Kushner, the president's son-in-law and a senior White House adviser, had been using WhatsApp as part of his official duties — an apparent violation of a law governing White House records.

You see, those 2 situations are roughly equivalent.

On the other hand, Trump's mishandling of classified documents is MUCH more serious than anything that Clinton is done. Bringing up Clinton's emails in response to Trump's document theft is like someone responding to "you blew up a schoolbus full of children" with "but what about when you farted in an elevator?"

Here is why Trump's actions are much more significant and Clinton's private email server is irrelevant....

1) The scale of the issue

Yes, Clinton had a private email server. And yes, there were some sensitive documents on it. But, context is important... In some cases, documents were classified only AFTER they were on her server. In other cases, the documents were not properly marked. In some cases, classification was rather broad (where discussion of stuff already available to the public is still considered sensitive). Plus, in some cases documents were sent TO her, so the blame belongs with the sender rather than the recipient.

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_email_controversy
News reports by NBC and CNN indicated that the emails discussed "innocuous" matters already available in the public domain. For example, the CIA drone program has been widely discussed in the public domain since the early 2000s; however, the existence of the program is technically classified, so sharing a newspaper article that mentions it would constitute a security breach, according to the CIA.

On the other hand, Trump had many many more government documents. And unlike the case of Clinton, it was a) obvious that many documents were classified (given the markings on them), and b) he and his minions actually had to manually go and collect/pack said documents

2) Why they had them

The clinton email issue occurred when Clinton was actually working for the state department. Even if she were not as careful as she should have been with the documents, at least she had a reason to have access to them.

And why did she have a private server in the first place? Because at the time, the network infrastructure available at the state department was rather poor. And previous secretaries of state (including REPUBLICAN Colin Powel) were known to use private equipment/email account to do government business. Basically it allowed her to do her job better (which involved, you know, serving the U.S.).

From: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-powell-clinton-email-commentary-idUSKCN10Y1HN
Powell advised Clinton to use a personal email account as an efficient way to communicate.... he did write Clinton an email after she started using her private email server, describing his limited use of a personal AOL email account.... When the rest of the world was working on PCs and using then-modern software in their offices, State clung to an old, clunky mainframe system made by the now-defunct company WANG.

Why did Trump have dozens of classified documents, and hundreds of other documents that were the property of the government? Who knows. He has never given any real justification. He is no longer president, nor is he engaged in any activity on behalf of the government. There is no reason he should have had the documents, except for his own personal uses/benefit.

3) The responses

Clinton largely complied with the FBI. She turned over the server to the FBI for analysis. And... that's about it. They may be unhappy about Comey publically mentioning reopening the investigation right before the election (and they have a point, since the FBI and DoJ should avoid taking actions that affect elections unnecessarily), but that was about it. No claim of "witch hunt".

"Oh but what about the deleted emails?" I hear the MAGAchud whining. What about them? The state department allows the deletion of personal emails (they had set a 2 month retention period on the server.) And as far as I remember, at the time the FBI didn't specifically ask for those emails to be turned over at the time.

So how did Trump handle things? Well, first of all, he failed to turn over documents months ago even when presented with a subpoena. (He basically had TWO chances to "come clean", and had he actually complied, you probably wouldn't have heard anything more about classified documents at Mar a Lardo.) Then he and his lawyers lied (which is, you know, perjury/obstruction of justice) when they claimed months ago "no more documents, we turned everything over".)

And since the search warrant was executed? Trump and his minions have engaged in attacks on the FBI (calls to have them "defunded", claiming they are biased despite the fact that the head of the FBI was a Trump pick. One republican politician even suggested that FBI agents should be shot.) They claimed that they were "cooperating" and that a search warrant was unnecessary (which of course is untrue, since they had already lied when they said they "had nothing left".) They have also made multiple (and often contradictory) claims about the documents... that the FBI both planted the documents and that he had automatically declassified them (which of course is considered a lie even by former members of the Trump administration.)

So who is showing more integrity, the person who said "Might have made a mistake... here's the server so you can analyze it", or the one who cries "Witch hunt!" when he gets his hand stuck in the cookie jar (after of course claiming he never eats cookies.)

4) The end game

Clinton was investigated by the FBI. They decided that nothing that was done rose to the level that would warrant criminal prosecution.

Trump was in power for 4 years, in which he got to pick his Att. General (as well as other law enforcement individuals). Republicans also controlled both the senate and house much of that time. If Clinton was guilty, they would have had plenty of time to investigate and press charges. Yet... nothing. Either Trump and his administration are totally incompetent in prosecuting what should be an obvious crime (in which case, why would anyone want them in power?) or Clinton isn't really "a criminal".

Compare that to Trump. It is true that he hasn't YET been charged with a crime. But the investigation has only been going on for less than a year, and he is ALREADY at greater danger of getting indicted than Clinton ever was.

----------------

So no, bringing up Clinton's emails when talking about Trump's document theft isn't "whataboutism"... its a distraction from someone who doesn't have anything useful to say.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 07, 2022, 05:39:05 pm
CAPTCHA: I'm not a robot

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbmYmcIX0AAWF0o?format=jpg&name=medium)
That's actually pretty funny... can I steal that?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 07, 2022, 06:42:50 pm
Now that we know Trump stole top secret nuclear documents, it's making more sense why Miss Lindsey Graham et al. were summoned on a secret trip to Moscow in 2018...on Juky 4, no less.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 08, 2022, 10:23:09 am
c'mon Shady! Why would your boy have a superduper classified doc on a 'foreign nation's nuclear capabilities'? Why, hey?

(https://i.imgur.com/diawXC7.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 08, 2022, 10:47:50 am
Well yes...WHY?

His defenders can't answer... No one can.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 08, 2022, 11:18:05 am
His defenders can't answer... No one can.
The only rebuttal they have is Trump is all-powerful and declared the documents declassified. But if they were at all smart, they would realize that is actually worse.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on September 08, 2022, 11:18:59 am
Well yes...WHY?

His defenders can't answer... No one can.

Huh...huh...Hillary?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 09, 2022, 02:49:22 pm
Ha ha!

From: https://www.axios.com/2022/09/09/judge-dismisses-trump-lawsuit-clinton-2016?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=editorial
A U.S. judge has thrown out former President Trump's lawsuit against Hillary Clinton, saying the former president "is seeking to flaunt a two-hundred-page political manifesto outlining his grievances against those that have opposed him."... Middlebrooks said Trump exceeded the legal statute of limitations and that "many of the statements that Plaintiff characterizes as injurious falsehoods qualify as speech plainly protected by the First Amendment."

(Note that it is possible that the lawyers may suffer sanctions, since filing frivalous lawsuits can get you in trouble.)

I am shocked! Shocked I say! How can Trump's crackerjack legal team (which includes a former right-wing TV celebrity and a lawyer for a parking garage company, where 2 of them may be in trouble for lying to the FBI over Trump's stolen documents) make such mistakes?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 10, 2022, 12:47:14 pm
Well yes...WHY?

His defenders can't answer... No one can.

a waldo reminder: Trump wouldn't allow the usual White House media group to know who he was meeting... that there was even a meeting. The only way it became known is because Russian media outlets (who were allowed a photo-op), let it be known that Trump was meeting with Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov And Russian Ambassador Kislyak... in the 'Oval Office', no less!
(https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2017/05/10/gettyimages-681529300_wide-0242147ade9d8cd2832393d9d1a656c86b6b7762-s1600-c85.webp)

the Russian kompromat on Trump runs strong, runs deep!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 10, 2022, 01:17:55 pm
Ha ha!

From: https://www.axios.com/2022/09/09/judge-dismisses-trump-lawsuit-clinton-2016?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=editorial
A U.S. judge has thrown out former President Trump's lawsuit against Hillary Clinton

besides Clinton, others Trump was 'suing' in that same sprawling lawsuit: several of Clinton's top 2016 campaign officials, the Democratic National Committee, former FBI Director Comey, his former deputy Andrew McCabe, former FBI officials Peter Strzok and Lisa Page... and also included Steele, author of the Trump-Russia dossier and the opposition group that Steele worked with, Fusion GPS.

of note: Trump had been "judge shopping", trying to get this lawsuit handled by the same judge he appointed just before leaving the Presidency - Judge Aileen Cannon... who is the judge that agreed to grant Trump's request for a 'special master' to review all the documents seized by the FBI at Mar-a-Lago

DOJ Called Out Trump Judge Aileen Cannon With Its Savvy Mar-a-Lago Appeal (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/09/mar-a-lago-appeal-snooker-trump-judge-cannon.html)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 11, 2022, 01:44:15 am
Well yes...WHY?

His defenders can't answer... No one can.

Hillary did stuff. Lock her up!  FBI bad!!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 11, 2022, 07:16:19 pm
Some say that when a republican makes an accusation, its really a confession. (Look at the republicans who accuse democrats of 'child grooming' while at the same time blindly following a man who had a habit of walking into the dressing room where underage girls were changing.)

So with all of republican's claims that the Democrats have "weaponized" the FBI and DOJ to go after Trump, its fair to remind them of this:

From: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3634063-trumps-doj-pushed-for-legal-action-against-john-kerry-says-ex-us-attorney/
Former President Trump’s Justice Department pushed for a criminal investigation of former Secretary of State John Kerry, an ex-U.S. attorney revealed...The push for an investigation of Kerry was one of several instances in which Trump’s Justice Department pressured the U.S. attorney’s office in Manhattan to take action against the then-president’s critics, according to Geoffrey Berman...The request came days after Trump publicly attacked Kerry on Twitter over the Iran nuclear deal, which he helped negotiate as head of the State Department in the Obama administration...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 13, 2022, 03:54:03 am
Some weird happenings going on with Stubby McBonespurs....

He recently flew into the DC area on an unannounced visit. Which raised all sorts of rumors.... was he there to visit Walter Reed medical center? Was he indicted and turning himself in? He claimed it was a "working visit", which is even more suspicious, because most people recognize that Trump doesn't actually do any work (as his 4 years of president show)

Well, now he and a bunch of his Klan have been spotted on his golf course. But despite them, you know, being on a golf course, there aren't a lot of golf clubs to be seen.

From: https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/goodfellas-donald-trumps-viral-photo-at-golf-course-is-straight-out-of-a-mobster-movie-5945731.html
Donald Trump was captured in photos and videos that showed him immersed in a conversation with aides and advisers at Trump National Golf Club...Adding fuel to the speculations was that none of them were photographed actually indulging in the sport.

Which of course has started a bunch of other rumors... that they were meeting there because it was 'safe' (apart from any prying eyes back at Mar a Lago or other locations), that he was trying to do some witness tampering or other criminal activities.

(Note: Edited to fix the link)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 13, 2022, 05:35:09 am
And one of his crew there tweeted something cryptic like the revolution is going to start soon...

Speculation that the missing files are going to be released and he will be arrested.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on September 13, 2022, 09:53:06 am
Some weird happenings going on with Stubby McBonespurs....

He recently flew into the DC area on an unannounced visit. Which raised all sorts of rumors.... was he there to visit Walter Reed medical center? Was he indicted and turning himself in? He claimed it was a "working visit", which is even more suspicious, because most people recognize that Trump doesn't actually do any work (as his 4 years of president show)

Well, now he and a bunch of his Klan have been spotted on his golf course. But despite them, you know, being on a golf course, there aren't a lot of golf clubs to be seen.

From: https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/make-way-for-the-worlds-smallest-and-most-affordable-fire-truck-5947741.html
Donald Trump was captured in photos and videos that showed him immersed in a conversation with aides and advisers at Trump National Golf Club...Adding fuel to the speculations was that none of them were photographed actually indulging in the sport.

Which of course has started a bunch of other rumors... that they were meeting there because it was 'safe' (apart from any prying eyes back at Mar a Lago or other locations), that he was trying to do some witness tampering or other criminal activities.

IDK about Trump but that little fire truck in your link looks sick as hell.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 13, 2022, 10:32:57 am
Quote
Some weird happenings going on with Stubby McBonespurs....

He recently flew into the DC area on an unannounced visit. Which raised all sorts of rumors.... was he there to visit Walter Reed medical center? Was he indicted and turning himself in? He claimed it was a "working visit", which is even more suspicious, because most people recognize that Trump doesn't actually do any work (as his 4 years of president show)

Well, now he and a bunch of his Klan have been spotted on his golf course. But despite them, you know, being on a golf course, there aren't a lot of golf clubs to be seen.

From: https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/make-way-for-the-worlds-smallest-and-most-affordable-fire-truck-5947741.html
Donald Trump was captured in photos and videos that showed him immersed in a conversation with aides and advisers at Trump National Golf Club...Adding fuel to the speculations was that none of them were photographed actually indulging in the sport.
IDK about Trump but that little fire truck in your link looks sick as hell.
Weird... must have accidentally clicked on some ad before I did the copy of the URL.

(I have fixed the link in the original.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on September 13, 2022, 10:42:08 am
The walls are closing in.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 13, 2022, 10:55:20 am
The walls are closing in.
That's what you said about Hillary and Hunter Biden. But have they had their phones confiscated yet?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 13, 2022, 12:35:45 pm
That's what you said about Hillary and Hunter Biden. But have they had their phones confiscated yet?
One of the many, many problems of shady is that he is unable to understand the concept of 'context'.

Prior to 2020, Trump avoided prosecution. Was it because "gosh, gee... Trump is innocent"? Nope.... it was his personal situation. The context.

Prior to 2016, Trump avoided punishment for so many of his crimes because, sadly, the U.S. government has a poor track record of investigating white collar crimes. Unless something big happens to bring crimes to their attention they get overlooked. (Still, he did get caught in both the Trump U and Trump foundation scandals, where he had to pay out millions.) Look how long the Trump organization was engaged in tax fraud (as shown by the recent guilty plea by Weisselberg.)

Once he entered the election, he was protected... first by rules that seek to limit the impact on an election, and then by a DoJ rule that sitting presidents cannot be prosecuted. (Not to mention Barr doing his best to run interference for him, and a republican party that has demonstrated a lack of integrity.)

But now the context has changed. He no longer has the protection afforded by the Office of the presidency. And unlike his pre-2016 situation, his crimes are fully in the spotlight, and some prosecutors are willing to go after him. Will he end up in jail? Justice would dictate that he should be. Of course, there is a chance he could escape charges (Perhaps he delays charges long enough, and then dies of a cheezeburger-induced heart attack before he is indicted or the republicans manage to retake the whitehouse in 2024 (thanks to Russian election interference and voter suppression) and he is given a pardon.

But he is much closer to being indicted than he ever has been in his life. And much closer to being sent to jail than Hunter Biden (post 2016) or Hillary Clinton ever were.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 14, 2022, 11:38:44 am
(https://i.imgur.com/2ep8oyQ.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/yLjGUHn.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on September 14, 2022, 12:28:56 pm
The walls are closing in!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on September 14, 2022, 12:29:17 pm
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 14, 2022, 02:12:59 pm
It's true that culty Trumpers' willingness to excuse anything he does was underestimated. He knew he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue, but no one thought you'd still be defending him after he stole top secret documents of U.S. spies' identities and nuclear secrets to sell to Russia and the Saudis
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 14, 2022, 02:20:06 pm
It's true that culty Trumpers' willingness to excuse anything he does was underestimated. He knew he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue, but no one thought you'd still be defending him after he stole top secret documents of U.S. spies' identities and nuclear secrets to sell to Russia and the Saudis
Yup. The Republican party that was so concerned about Bill Clinton receiving oral sex thinks that giving national secrets to foreign governments is no big deal, and that attempting to blackmail a foreign government into interfering with an election and then overthrowing the government afterwards is an acceptable course of action.

The party that had wisely told Nixon "Ok, time to go" is not the republican party of today.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on September 14, 2022, 03:17:17 pm
It's true that culty Trumpers' willingness to excuse anything he does was underestimated. He knew he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue, but no one thought you'd still be defending him after he stole top secret documents of U.S. spies' identities and nuclear secrets to sell to Russia and the Saudis
He did all that?  What’s your proof other than your butt?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on September 14, 2022, 03:18:23 pm
Yup. The Republican party that was so concerned about Bill Clinton receiving oral sex thinks that giving national secrets to foreign governments is no big deal, and that attempting to blackmail a foreign government into interfering with an election and then overthrowing the government afterwards is an acceptable course of action.

The party that had wisely told Nixon "Ok, time to go" is not the republican party of today.
Once again, accusations without a shred of evidence.  You guys are definitely entertaining.  Do you come up with these ideas from Tom Clancy novels?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 14, 2022, 04:31:40 pm
Exactly my point. There's plenty of evidence he stole the documents. There's plenty of evidence of mysterious payments. There's plenty of evidence of spies dropping dead. But you will still defend him. And you will deny all the evidence against him. Inexplicable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on September 14, 2022, 05:24:22 pm
Exactly my point. There's plenty of evidence he stole the documents. There's plenty of evidence of mysterious payments. There's plenty of evidence of spies dropping dead. But you will still defend him. And you will deny all the evidence against him. Inexplicable.
Sounds pretty serious.  Why hasn’t he been charged for it?  That’s some great BlueAnon conspiracy theory though!  Would make for a great Tom Clancy movie!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 14, 2022, 06:11:35 pm
What other explanation do you have for why he would steal the most sensitive classified documents? When he gets charged, you will wail about the police state and call the U.S. a Banana Republic. Because you're indoctrinated into a cult for a fat, stupid reality TV host/failed president. It's hilarious.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on September 14, 2022, 07:12:14 pm
What other explanation do you have for why he would steal the most sensitive classified documents? When he gets charged, you will wail about the police state and call the U.S. a Banana Republic. Because you're indoctrinated into a cult for a fat, stupid reality TV host/failed president. It's hilarious.
I don’t know what or if anything was stolen.  That seems to be what’s being determined.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on September 14, 2022, 07:57:19 pm
I don’t know what or if anything was stolen.  That seems to be what’s being determined.

The mere existence of an FBI investigation into Hunter Biden is enough for you to believe his father is corrupt so spare us this “let’s see how it plays out” bullcrap.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 16, 2022, 12:14:13 pm
The mere existence of an FBI investigation into Hunter Biden is enough for you to believe his father is corrupt so spare us this “let’s see how it plays out” bullcrap.
Heck it doesn't even have to be an actual FBI. Just a deranged conspiracy rant from a partisan source (regardless of how suspicious it is) is enough to send the MAGAchud like shady into their pearl-clutching spasms.

Seriously, "Some who may or may not be hunter biden dropped off a laptop late at night to some random computer shop (who happened to be owned by a MAGAchud). This owner then hacked into his hard drive (a clear violation of privacy), then turned things over to partisan republicans (such as giuliani, who had his law license removed and is facing a huge lawsuit because of his lying) before getting the FBI involved, thus destroying the chain of custody" is somehow something we should take seriously.

Documents retrieved by FBI agents (who are employees of the federal government), that have clear 'classified' markings, and that Trump himself has admitted at times "those are mine" is something that we have to "wait and see".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on September 16, 2022, 12:36:25 pm
Heck it doesn't even have to be an actual FBI. Just a deranged conspiracy rant from a partisan source (regardless of how suspicious it is) is enough to send the MAGAchud like shady into their pearl-clutching spasms.

Seriously, "Some who may or may not be hunter biden dropped off a laptop late at night to some random computer shop (who happened to be owned by a MAGAchud). This owner then hacked into his hard drive (a clear violation of privacy), then turned things over to partisan republicans (such as giuliani, who had his law license removed and is facing a huge lawsuit because of his lying) before getting the FBI involved, thus destroying the chain of custody" is somehow something we should take seriously.

Documents retrieved by FBI agents (who are employees of the federal government), that have clear 'classified' markings, and that Trump himself has admitted at times "those are mine" is something that we have to "wait and see".
The laptop is Hunter Biden’s.  it’s a conspiracy theory to think that it’s not.  Material on his laptop implicates Joe Biden in various business dealings in Ukraine, Russia and China , among others.  If it was Don Jr’s laptop, you guys would be jerking off in excitement.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on September 16, 2022, 04:04:46 pm
The laptop is Hunter Biden’s.  it’s a conspiracy theory to think that it’s not.  Material on his laptop implicates Joe Biden in various business dealings in Ukraine, Russia and China , among others.  If it was Don Jr’s laptop, you guys would be jerking off in excitement.

The laptop has references to the elder Biden, but nothing we've seen "implicates" him in any business dealings. Dumbass.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 16, 2022, 05:50:18 pm
The laptop has references to the elder Biden, but nothing we've seen "implicates" him in any business dealings. Dumbass.
It should also be pointed out that despite the claim from the MAGAchuds, the laptop was never really confirmed to be Hunter Biden's.

They have verified some emails as belonging to Hunter, but those might have been hacked from other sources and copied to the laptop. Most data has not been verified.

From: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/hunter-biden-laptop-data-examined/
Thousands of emails purportedly from the laptop computer of Hunter Biden...are authentic communications... The vast majority of the data — and most of the nearly 129,000 emails it contained — could not be verified... some of the records that might have helped verify contents were not available for analysis... Among the reasons for the inconclusive findings was sloppy handling of the data, which damaged some records. The experts found the data had been repeatedly accessed and copied by people other than Hunter Biden over nearly three years.

Of course MAGAchuds are pretty feeble minded and lack real critical thinking skills, so for them this is somehow "proof" of something.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 21, 2022, 10:08:10 am
So Stubby McBonespurs is probably a little upset...

After hitting the jackpot by getting a rather incompetent pro-Trump sycophant judge to issue an order for a special master to review the documents, the individual that was picked (Judge Raymond Dearie, who was actually one of Trump's suggestions) has been much more willing to follow the rules....

Dearie has been doing 2 things:

- Calling out Trump's lawyers for not explicitly stating or providing proof whether Trump had actually declassified documents. (Basically stating that if Trump's legal team doesn't come out and give evidence that stuff was declassified) he will accept the Prima Facia case that  the government's position  is correct and the ~100 relevant documents actually are still classified.

- He has suggested he will get the document review complete very quickly (long before the Trump team suggested for a deadline, even before the government's deadline). Given the fact that Trump's main legal tactic is "delay delay delay", having Dearie complete the review early will certainly be a problem for Trump

From: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/20/trump-special-master-judge-mar-a-lago-00057805
Judge Raymond Dearie repeatedly challenged Trump’s lawyers for refusing to back up the former president’s claim that he declassified the highly sensitive national security-related records.... “My view of it is: you can’t have your cake and eat it,” said Dearie....




Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 21, 2022, 02:13:43 pm
New York just filed their civil fraud case against Trump and his kids. Not a good week for McBonespurs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 21, 2022, 02:33:44 pm
New York just filed their civil fraud case against Trump and his kids. Not a good week for McBonespurs.

https://youtu.be/bxOaW6aHpak
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on September 21, 2022, 03:03:38 pm
New York just filed their civil fraud case against Trump and his kids. Not a good week for McBonespurs.

Dude is so funny.

Quote
In a statement posted to his Truth Social platform, Trump called the lawsuit "another witch hunt by a racist attorney general" and called James, who is Black, "a fraud who campaigned on a 'Get Trump' platform, despite the fact that the city is one of the crime and murder disasters of the world under her watch!"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on September 21, 2022, 03:10:38 pm
The walls are closing in! 😂
You guys have literally been posting the same stuff for over 6 years now.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on September 21, 2022, 03:55:37 pm
The walls are closing in! 😂
You guys have literally been posting the same stuff for over 6 years now.

(Attachment Link)

You've been posting this exact same response for six years too, got anything that doesn't suck?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 21, 2022, 06:34:57 pm
The Appeals Court rules unanimously to allow the DoJ to resume the review of classified documents found at Mara Lago.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on September 21, 2022, 08:03:08 pm
New York just filed their civil fraud case against Trump and his kids. Not a good week for McBonespurs.
If they thought they had anything real on Trump, they would have filed a criminal case, not a civil case.  Worst case scenario for Trump is that he pays some kind of fine. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 21, 2022, 08:16:28 pm
"Bragg’s effort to bring criminal charges against Trump appeared to fizzle earlier this year, after the newly-elected district attorney reportedly balked at filing such a case and the high-powered prosecutors who’d led that probe resigned. However, Bragg insisted Wednesday that the probe is far from stagnant.

'Our criminal investigation concerning former President Donald J. Trump, the Trump Organization, and its leadership is active and ongoing,' the DA said."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on September 21, 2022, 08:27:40 pm
"Bragg’s effort to bring criminal charges against Trump appeared to fizzle earlier this year, after the newly-elected district attorney reportedly balked at filing such a case and the high-powered prosecutors who’d led that probe resigned. However, Bragg insisted Wednesday that the probe is far from stagnant.

'Our criminal investigation concerning former President Donald J. Trump, the Trump Organization, and its leadership is active and ongoing,' the DA said."
Yes, the never ending investigations, cheered on by police state proponents, under the guise of some kind of distorted justice.  You people are sick in the head.  Regardless, conducting a civil trial and concluding it before criminal charges is terrible law, and risk mistrials, tainted juries, etc.  But again, proponents of police state tactics don’t care about process or rights, just the ends that justifies the means.  **** stains like you don’t deserve to live in a free society with rights and liberties, because you don’t respect them and you constantly seek to erode and undermine them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 21, 2022, 09:02:38 pm
She has over 100 instances of well documented fraud. Trump tried to settle but she rejected him. In what world are consequences for fraud a "police state"? Maybe only in a cultworld that knows their guy is guilty but are humiliated because they can't quit him? 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 21, 2022, 09:14:02 pm
If they thought they had anything real on Trump, they would have filed a criminal case, not a civil case.  Worst case scenario for Trump is that he pays some kind of fine.

civil case seeks to recover $250 million and severely restrict the 'TrumpCrimeFamily' from conducting business in NY state moving forward. At the news conference, the NY AG James said that she was referring the matter to the Internal Revenue Service and the Justice Department’s Southern District of New York for potential criminal prosecution.

so... you have no actual comment on the fraud claims against the 'TrumpCrimeFamily' - none? C'mon Shady aren't you going to support the ConManTrump?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on September 22, 2022, 11:23:47 am
lol

Quote
"If you're president of the United States, you can declassify just by saying 'it's declassified' even by thinking about it."
-DJT (https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1572764115885772803?s=20&t=pc_kFjTaEqNlQZ5vfi8f7A)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 22, 2022, 11:46:04 am
So Biden must just have to think it's classified again, obviously. 😆
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 22, 2022, 01:20:42 pm
I imagine if Obama had told Hannity he stole a bunch of highly sensitive classified documents but it's okay because they were declassified "in his mind", Hannity would have reacted in the same way as he did to Trump. 😆
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 22, 2022, 03:45:20 pm
The question, though, is will this garbage fly with the chucklef*cks...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 22, 2022, 04:14:48 pm
Is that really a question?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 22, 2022, 06:51:03 pm
Is that really a question?

There must be a limit to these things.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 22, 2022, 06:52:30 pm
In the Hannity interview, he said that the FBI planted the documents, that he also declassified them with his mind and that the FBI was at MaraLago looking for Hillary Clinton's emails.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 22, 2022, 08:18:17 pm
Looks like Dearie (the Special Master hired to review documents seized at Mar a Lago) has stepped up his game. In addition to laying the smackdown on Trump's lawyers for failure to submit evidence that documents were unclassified, he has now done this:

From: https://ca.movies.yahoo.com/special-master-forces-trump-hand-195439205.html
The judge appointed to review the documents seized by the FBI in the bureau’s court-authorized search of Mar-a-Lago last month is demanding Donald Trump back up the wild claims he’s made on social media...Dearie ordered Trump’s side to submit by Sept. 30 “a declaration or affidavit”...asking for proof of Trump’s claims that the incriminating evidence found at Mar-a-Lago was part of an FBI frame job....Dearie has also appointed an assistant, James Orenstein, to help him...Orenstein will earn $500 an hour for his service. The bill, Dearie ordered, will be paid monthly—by Donald Trump.

The judge also stated that the assistant must be paid on time (within about a week of the billing) or Trump would immediately be held in contempt. (A smart move, given Trump's reputation of 1) not paying, and 2) using delaying tactics.

I am impressed. Dearie is going further than I ever expected to curtail Trump's tactics and keep things on track. (And this was one of the guys recommended by the Trump team.... I wonder how they could have accidentally picked someone who was, well, competent.)

I just hope that he doesn't "Pull a Mueller". And by that, I mean start as a person with widespread support from all parts of the political spectrum, to do good work for weeks/months on end, but then mess up at the very end. (In Mueller's case he underestimated the amount of corruption on the republican side, thus his work did not have the impact it should have.)



Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 22, 2022, 08:28:24 pm
"Bragg’s effort to bring criminal charges against Trump appeared to fizzle earlier this year, after the newly-elected district attorney reportedly balked at filing such a case and the high-powered prosecutors who’d led that probe resigned. However, Bragg insisted Wednesday that the probe is far from stagnant.

'Our criminal investigation concerning former President Donald J. Trump, the Trump Organization, and its leadership is active and ongoing,' the DA said."
Bragg certainly is a disappointment. (To the point people are questioning whether Trump somehow 'got to him'.) He claims that the investigation is 'active', but the grand jury hasn't been active in months.

But, all is not lost. Maybe a strong showing in a civil case (along with any new evidence it provides) might cause renewed efforts for criminal charges. Or maybe (as Waldo mentioned), referrals to the feds might cause criminal investigations at the federal level.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on September 23, 2022, 12:18:17 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdSnHhdXoAEbMsp?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 23, 2022, 10:42:58 am
And just because Trump doesn't have enough legal troubles already...

From: https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/trump-****-accuser-plans-suit-under-new-ny-survivors-law-1.6077306
A writer who accused former U.S. President Donald Trump of raping her in a department store dressing room intends to file another lawsuit against him under a new New York law letting sexual assault victims sue over attacks that happened decades ago. A lawyer for the columnist, E. Jean Carroll, notified a federal judge of her intent to sue in an August letter entered in the public record Tuesday.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 26, 2022, 01:03:05 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocppyFCJJhg

Trump is officially the messiah now in the eyes of some supporters.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 27, 2022, 10:17:58 pm
Well, THAT was money well spent...

From: https://news.yahoo.com/trump-sidelines-3m-attorney-inspires-204120629.html
...former Florida Solicitor General Chris Kise was paid a whopping $3 million advance to represent the former president after the FBI seized 11,000 sensitive files from his Florida home....Kise was officially sidelined from the federal probe by Tuesday. CNN reported that the lawyer is expected to stay on Trump’s legal team but will not be leading the defense.


Trump's current team of lawyers has been... less than stellar (one used to be the lawyer for a parking garage, one was a former TV host. And some of them might be in legal trouble themselves for lying that "all documents were returned".) Supposedly Kise was some sort of big name/superstar, so to see him take a secondary role has lead to all sorts of speculation....

- He might end up representing Trump in some of his other legal cases (such as the civil suite over financial fraud)
- Despite initial reports that he was paid up front, maybe Trump decided to stiff him somehow
- He may have tried to get Trump to follow actual reasonable legal advice, something that would seem contradictory to a man who almost confesses to crimes on a regular basis during his rallies
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 28, 2022, 06:02:39 am
At this point, if anything comes to punish Trump he will be old and infirm like his hero Roy Cohn.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 02, 2022, 11:08:53 am
in regards the NY AG's fraud lawsuit, Trump just went on Fox's Hannity show to reveal his "gotcha" absolving him of any fraud claims/charges in regards the financial statements the AG is targeting!

Quote from: ConMan Trump to Hannity
We have a disclaimer. Right on the front. And it basically says, you know, get your own people. You're at your own risk ... It may be way off... Be careful. Because it may not be accurate. It may be too far… Get your people. Use your own lawyers. Don’t trust us.

and the accounting firm Mazars involved in, year after year, filing all the statements, also in azz-covering mode, includes the following phrasing; specifically:

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/IMVPUyVHwpq8HfQSPl8CTw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTcyMDtjZj13ZWJw/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/e8DOuuZQW9l4hpzbBr5S2w--~B/aD0xMTYxO3c9MTU0ODthcHBpZD15dGFjaHlvbg--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/insider_articles_922/97930761da0c68c7924115943b2ec2bb)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on October 02, 2022, 11:11:27 am
in regards the NY AG's fraud lawsuit, Trump just went on Fox's Hannity show to reveal his "gotcha" absolving him of any fraud claims/charges in regards the financial statements the AG is targeting!

and the accounting firm Mazars involved in, year after year, filing all the statements, also in azz-covering mode, includes the following phrasing; specifically:

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/IMVPUyVHwpq8HfQSPl8CTw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTcyMDtjZj13ZWJw/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/e8DOuuZQW9l4hpzbBr5S2w--~B/aD0xMTYxO3c9MTU0ODthcHBpZD15dGFjaHlvbg--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/insider_articles_922/97930761da0c68c7924115943b2ec2bb)
The walls are closing in on this civil, non-criminal lawsuit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 02, 2022, 11:16:38 am
The walls are closing in on this civil, non-criminal lawsuit.

hey now Shady! Do you accept... do you believe... said disclaimer absolves Trump of any accountability for the content/numbers presented in his financial statements! Well do ya?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on October 02, 2022, 11:25:22 am
hey now Shady! Do you accept... do you believe... said disclaimer absolves Trump of any accountability for the content/numbers presented in his financial statements! Well do ya?
Trump gets audited every year.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 02, 2022, 12:39:49 pm
If they thought they had anything real on Trump, they would have filed a criminal case, not a civil case.  Worst case scenario for Trump is that he pays some kind of fine.

civil case seeks to recover $250 million and severely restrict the 'TrumpCrimeFamily' from conducting business in NY state moving forward. At the news conference, the NY AG James said that she was referring the matter to the Internal Revenue Service and the Justice Department’s Southern District of New York for potential criminal prosecution.

so... you have no actual comment on the fraud claims against the 'TrumpCrimeFamily' - none? C'mon Shady aren't you going to support the ConManTrump?

hey now Shady! Do you accept... do you believe... said disclaimer absolves Trump of any accountability for the content/numbers presented in his financial statements! Well do ya?
Trump gets audited every year.

again, state level civil case. However, as I mentioned NY AG James has stated she would be, "referring the matter to the Internal Revenue Service and the Justice Department’s Southern District of New York for potential criminal prosecution."

c'mon Shady, in support of your hero Trump, you've claimed there's, "nothing real here"! You were directly asked if the disclaimer Trump is touting absolves him of any/all accountability... but somehow you keep ignoring that question - go figure, hey!

by the by, you seem to be ignorant of the fact Trump’s money man, CFO Allen Weisselberg, flipped... agreeing to testify against Trump's company! Carry on, hey!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on October 02, 2022, 01:14:05 pm
civil case seeks to recover $250 million and severely restrict the 'TrumpCrimeFamily' from conducting business in NY state moving forward. At the news conference, the NY AG James said that she was referring the matter to the Internal Revenue Service and the Justice Department’s Southern District of New York for potential criminal prosecution.

so... you have no actual comment on the fraud claims against the 'TrumpCrimeFamily' - none? C'mon Shady aren't you going to support the ConManTrump?

again, state level civil case. However, as I mentioned NY AG James has stated she would be, "referring the matter to the Internal Revenue Service and the Justice Department’s Southern District of New York for potential criminal prosecution."

c'mon Shady, in support of your hero Trump, you've claimed there's, "nothing real here"! You were directly asked if the disclaimer Trump is touting absolves him of any/all accountability... but somehow you keep ignoring that question - go figure, hey!

by the by, you seem to be ignorant of the fact Trump’s money man, CFO Allen Weisselberg, flipped... agreeing to testify against Trump's company! Carry on, hey!
What do you want me to say?  It looks like the walls are closing in. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on October 02, 2022, 01:18:12 pm
Wow, disgraced FBI agent and anti-Trumper Peter Strzok’s dismissal letter has been made public, 

"In my 23 years in the FBI, I have not seen a more impactful series of missteps that has called into question the entire organization and more thoroughly damaged the FBI’s reputation."

https://www.dailywire.com/news/read-it-fbis-brutal-draft-letter-firing-disgraced-agent-peter-strzok-revealed
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 02, 2022, 01:47:51 pm
Defund the police!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 02, 2022, 03:19:55 pm
Wow, disgraced FBI agent and anti-Trumper Peter Strzok’s dismissal letter has been made public.

your referenced article's headline speaks to it being a 'draft'. By the by, this dismissal over-turned a ruling by the FBI's own Office of Professional Responsibility to give Strzok a suspension and demotion - a ruling based upon a described independent review process. Coincidentally... ya, ya... coincidentally, this just happened to align with Trump's repeated calls for Strzok to be fired - go figure, hey!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 02, 2022, 07:36:08 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/hlEQEeP.jpg)

oldies but goodies! Trump said he knew words... that he has the best words: (https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1237485665941688321/vid/1280x720/aOe3xG0ik1CTePQJ.mp4?tag=13)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on October 02, 2022, 08:09:58 pm
2 recent days Trump posts on his, "Truth Lie Social" platform;

=> one attacking Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, while also racist-mocking McConnell’s wife, Elaine Chao – who was in Trump's cabinet serving as the Secretary of Transportation - referring to her as McConnell’s “China loving wife, Coco Chow!”

=> the other congratulating Ginni Thomas for her testimony before the Congressional committee investigating the January 6th insurrection; she being the wife of the US supreme court Justice Clarence Thomas. Testimony in which she told the committee that she still believes that the 2020 U.S. presidential election was stolen from Donald Trump... stolen per the "Big Lie conspiracy theory" – widely propagated by Trump – that has never been substantiated with evidence and has been thoroughly debunked over the past two years.

(https://i.imgur.com/PgwvqEO.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 09, 2022, 07:25:24 pm
Trumper concern about Hunter Biden's addiction issues is the most hilarious projection of all.
https://twitter.com/Rtreatwilliams/status/1578924692941205504?t=7fiUMZ0AUZqZN7rqlwNfdA&s=19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on October 09, 2022, 10:38:40 pm
2 recent days Trump posts on his, "Truth Lie Social" platform;

=> one attacking Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, while also racist-mocking McConnell’s wife, Elaine Chao – who was in Trump's cabinet serving as the Secretary of Transportation - referring to her as McConnell’s “China loving wife, Coco Chow!”

=> the other congratulating Ginni Thomas for her testimony before the Congressional committee investigating the January 6th insurrection; she being the wife of the US supreme court Justice Clarence Thomas. Testimony in which she told the committee that she still believes that the 2020 U.S. presidential election was stolen from Donald Trump... stolen per the "Big Lie conspiracy theory" – widely propagated by Trump – that has never been substantiated with evidence and has been thoroughly debunked over the past two years.

(https://i.imgur.com/PgwvqEO.jpg)
Which Big Lie do you think was most creative?  Trumps, or the Democrats 2016?  Or was it the Democrats 2004?  Or was it the Democrats 2000?  Personally I’m inclined to go with 2004.  Anytime you talk about voting machines switching votes in Ohio, it’s as good as it gets. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on October 09, 2022, 10:41:36 pm
That’s not to say that insisting Russia stole the election for Trump isn’t creative as well. 🤣
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 10, 2022, 05:34:11 am
Today's Big Lie was interesting. He claimed that nuclear documents were "planted" in his bedroom. Is that not the clearest admission of guilt yet? How stupid does one have to be to still defend this guy?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 13, 2022, 02:57:32 pm
Restart of the Jan. 6 committee again today. Pretty damning evidence and a subpoena for Trump. I imagine he will fight tooth and nail to avoid testifying under oath, as it is now abundantly clear he knew he lost and was just manipulating his supporters, who he knew were gullible retards.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on October 14, 2022, 10:56:44 pm
Restart of the Jan. 6 committee again today. Pretty damning evidence and a subpoena for Trump. I imagine he will fight tooth and nail to avoid testifying under oath, as it is now abundantly clear he knew he lost and was just manipulating his supporters, who he knew were gullible retards.

There is no way he will testify, he can't say three sentences in a row without lying.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 18, 2022, 04:05:22 pm
Looks like Durham's grand jury attemptt to discredit the Steele Dossier failed miserably. By the way some people talk, you'd think it had already been discredited. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 19, 2022, 06:46:37 pm
Trump deposed in his r@pe case today. The complainant asked for a sample of his DNA. I'm sure he will gladly provide it to prove he is innocent and that these allegations are bogus. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 21, 2022, 06:49:29 pm
Trump defends Saudi oil hike, saying they'rve been "treated badly" by the U.S. This is why Trumpers switched from their rabid hate of Islam to a rabid hate of LGBTQ people. The grift.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on October 21, 2022, 06:56:59 pm
Trump defends Saudi oil hike, saying they'rve been "treated badly" by the U.S. This is why Trumpers switched from their rabid hate of Islam to a rabid hate of LGBTQ people. The grift.
But he’s right.  When Biden took office he called them a pariah.  That’s a weird way to talk about an ally, and then ask for their help.  Biden is terrible at diplomacy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 21, 2022, 07:09:11 pm
You don't wonder why you stopped thinking and talking about Islam completely? And why suddenly trans people, whom you never actually see in real life, are public enemy no. 1?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 21, 2022, 08:01:43 pm
Eric Trump spoke at this QAnon rally, where they swear God is going to reappoint Trump in 2022.

Taking advantage of gullible retards seems lucrative.

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1583514393069113344?t=d66NlaartRX9O6vVVdDTPQ&s=19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on October 21, 2022, 08:11:55 pm
Eric Trump spoke at this QAnon rally, where they swear God is going to reappoint Trump in 2022.

Taking advantage of gullible retards seems lucrative.

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1583514393069113344?t=d66NlaartRX9O6vVVdDTPQ&s=19
Of course it’s lucrative.  Just see BLM.  They’re buying themselves mansions! 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 21, 2022, 10:24:40 pm
Of course it’s lucrative.  Just see BLM.  They’re buying themselves mansions! 😂
Yes, what about the imaginary uppity black people who dare to enter suburbia. Good one. They're just like a president exploiting retards like yourself
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 22, 2022, 12:42:59 pm
It's totally a cult, and well-armed delusional one looking for violence.
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1583834164226273281?t=_--Ev8sf_c2OpSsdbD4FKQ&s=19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on October 22, 2022, 03:11:25 pm
Yes, what about the imaginary uppity black people who dare to enter suburbia. Good one. They're just like a president exploiting retards like yourself
Using charity funds to buy large houses in Los Angeles is something I thought you were against.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 22, 2022, 03:19:39 pm
I'm strongly opposed to it. But what's that got to do with starting a cult to kill democracy?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on October 22, 2022, 03:32:15 pm
I'm strongly opposed to it. But what's that got to do with starting a cult to kill democracy?
Taking advantage of gullible people is lucrative.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on October 22, 2022, 05:27:41 pm
But he’s right.  When Biden took office he called them a pariah.  That’s a weird way to talk about an ally, and then ask for their help.  Biden is terrible at diplomacy.

“How dare Biden insult the country that did 9-11?”
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on October 22, 2022, 05:30:03 pm
Of course it’s lucrative.  Just see BLM.  They’re buying themselves mansions! 😂

Oh look more whataboutism from the **** who never shuts up about whataboutism.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on October 22, 2022, 05:53:08 pm
“How dare Biden insult the country that did 9-11?”
He can call them whatever he wants.  But don’t expect them to go along with his election scheme to delay production cuts.  That’s the point moron.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on October 22, 2022, 05:54:32 pm
Oh look more whataboutism from the **** who never shuts up about whataboutism.
I’m sorry that the BLM grift upsets you.  Regardless, you idiots don’t follow your own whataboutism rules, so your critique is completely meaningless.  Cope and seethe.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on October 22, 2022, 06:44:09 pm
He can call them whatever he wants.  But don’t expect them to go along with his election scheme to delay production cuts.  That’s the point moron.

You seem to forget who the senior partner in that relationship is, just like the Saudis need to be reminded.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on October 22, 2022, 07:34:22 pm
You seem to forget who the senior partner in that relationship is, just like the Saudis need to be reminded.
Good job dip s**t.  Push Saudi Arabia to get more cozy with the likes of China, Russia, etc.  I see you’re quite the diplomacy genius as well.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on October 22, 2022, 11:39:17 pm
Good job dip s**t.  Push Saudi Arabia to get more cozy with the likes of China, Russia, etc.  I see you’re quite the diplomacy genius as well.

They’re already in bed with them and don’t pretend your micropenis isn’t fluttering at the thought you shitbag
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 23, 2022, 09:25:05 am
Using charity funds to buy large houses in Los Angeles is something I thought you were against.
Do you have evidence of your allegations...other than your belief that black people don't belong in suburbia?
Regardless, I don't care if Trump swindles all of your money from you. Go ahead and send him all your minimum wage cheque. I'm more opposed to the incitement of violence to destroy democracy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 23, 2022, 10:06:18 am
Good job dip s**t.  Push Saudi Arabia to get more cozy with the likes of China, Russia, etc.  I see you’re quite the diplomacy genius as well.
How do you feel about Biden blocking China's access to microchip technology? It's certainly pushing them to get more cozy with Russia. I notice you haven't been fed the Xi-b!tch talking points like you used to be. Is that something you've noticed too or do you just regurgitate without bothering to process them?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 26, 2022, 03:54:28 pm
David Cross trolls Tucker Carlson...

https://youtu.be/XcVGd058Buw
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 10, 2022, 05:17:17 pm
I've been enjoying reading the (up-to-this-week)Trump loyalists suddenly coming to the realization he's only in it for himself and doesn't really have the personality to be a fit president.
Funny how disappointing election results make people recognize what was obvious all along.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on November 10, 2022, 05:38:24 pm
I've been enjoying reading the (up-to-this-week)Trump loyalists suddenly coming to the realization he's only in it for himself and doesn't really have the personality to be a fit president.
Funny how disappointing election results make people recognize what was obvious all along.
I said that I hope he doesn’t run in 2024 months ago.  I think he should retire.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 10, 2022, 06:17:31 pm
Exactly!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 10, 2022, 06:40:14 pm
It's going to be a slow death of his political career.
..
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on November 10, 2022, 07:20:33 pm
It's going to be a slow death of his political career.
..

IDK man, it's one thing to lose the chattering classes and careerist politicians, another to lose the people who made Trump Supporter a big part of their personality. If the GOP tries to cut ties with Trump and publicly distance themselves from him at this point, those MAGA people ain't gonna stick around for squeaky-voiced Ivy league freak like DeSantis.

That being said, I genuinely hope they try and Trump runs a third party campaign and absolutely f**ks them.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 10, 2022, 08:38:36 pm
And to nobody's surprise:

From: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/10/trump-lawyers-clinton-lawsuit-00066381
A federal judge on Thursday excoriated and sanctioned several members of Donald Trump’s legal team, saying the former president’s massive lawsuit against his former rival, Hillary Clinton, and dozens of other adversaries amounted to an intentional abuse of the legal system.

Either Trump's lawyers are incredibly incompetent, or foolish for listening to the demands of their client.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on November 10, 2022, 09:03:36 pm
And to nobody's surprise:

From: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/10/trump-lawyers-clinton-lawsuit-00066381
A federal judge on Thursday excoriated and sanctioned several members of Donald Trump’s legal team, saying the former president’s massive lawsuit against his former rival, Hillary Clinton, and dozens of other adversaries amounted to an intentional abuse of the legal system.

Either Trump's lawyers are incredibly incompetent, or foolish for listening to the demands of their client.
The lawsuits against Trump are also an abuse of the legal system.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 10, 2022, 09:08:27 pm
The lawsuits against Trump are also an abuse of the legal system.
Which judge said that?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on November 10, 2022, 10:17:26 pm
Which judge said that?
I’ve lost count as to how many lawsuits filed against Trump went nowhere.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 10, 2022, 10:23:37 pm
Which judge said that?
Yeah, strange isn't it?

Given how quickly and harshly the judge in this case came down on Trump's lawyers for abusing the legal system, then it would be just as easy for Trump to do the same for any lawsuits launched against him.

But strangely enough, the lawsuits against trump don't seem to get judges accusing them of being frivilous.

Strange. Its almost like shady is just making stuff up and doesn't know what he's talking about. (Next thing you know, he'll be claiming that you can instantly train nurses to handle complex medical cases like Neo from the matrix.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 10, 2022, 11:01:24 pm
I’ve lost count as to how many lawsuits filed against Trump went nowhere.
You mean all the ones still before the courts?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 11, 2022, 09:40:31 am
You mean all the ones still before the courts?
You will have to forgive our resident MAGAchud.... he is incapable of understanding the difference between:

- A well intentioned/reasonably worded lawsuit that gets dismissed strictly on some technicality or point of law that was unclear. The cases that Trump occasionally 'wins' (such as the emoluments lawsuit) fall into this category. The lawyers involved don't get punished for being involved with the lawsuits because there was at least some chance of them winning.

And:

- The type of poorly designed lawsuit that had absolutely no chance of success, but was put together strictly for non-legal purposes (e.g. political goals, fundraising, harassing defendants, etc.) This is the type of thing that Trump's lawyer's are getting punished for. Their lawsuit had no chance of winning, and was designed more as a publicity stunt.... thus, they are getting criticized by the judge for wasting the court's time and resources.

Unfortunately shady isn't really intelligent enough to understand the difference between the 2 situations.

(Maybe, instead of having nurses trained instantly like Neo from the matrix, shady should see if they can do some sort of instant 'learn a little about reading comprehension, logic, and legal matters'.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on November 11, 2022, 05:03:54 pm
You mean all the ones still before the courts?
No, the ones that have been dismissed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on November 11, 2022, 05:06:09 pm
Trump is flailing now, attacking popular Republican governors like Ron DeSantis and Glen Youngkin.  I don’t think that he realizes these governors are extremely popular with Republican voters and his fans.  His retirement might come a lot sooner than I’d thought!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 11, 2022, 05:22:23 pm
No, the ones that have been dismissed.
Were the lawyers sanctioned by the judges for filing frivolous lawsuits? That's what we're discussing here.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 11, 2022, 05:23:29 pm
Trump is flailing now, attacking popular Republican governors like Ron DeSantis and Glen Youngkin.  I don’t think that he realizes these governors are extremely popular with Republican voters and his fans.  His retirement might come a lot sooner than I’d thought!
How disloyal of you. I see what side you're on in the impending GOP civil war
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 12, 2022, 10:27:35 am
Which dismissed case were you referring to? The one where the war hero sued him for attacking his character and making false allegations, and the judge said that, while it fell far beyond the bounds of normal political discourse and completely disgusting, it still was protected political speech?
Not exactly the gotcha you were hoping for. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on November 13, 2022, 09:38:23 am
Chappelle sums up Trump and his appeal perfectly.  An “honest liar”. 😂

https://twitter.com/news_maker/status/1591761986341277696?s=46&t=X_d2U4BERx1UeeGuPKd-xQ
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 13, 2022, 09:50:57 am
“Jesus Christ, I’m not a Trump supporter. Unequivocally.” - Dave Chappelle
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on November 13, 2022, 09:53:30 am
“Jesus Christ, I’m not a Trump supporter. Unequivocally.” - Dave Chappelle
Why would you think he is?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 13, 2022, 10:18:44 am
I didn't. He was responding to guys like you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on November 13, 2022, 12:36:34 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhYD0-4WAAEWjbV?format=jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 14, 2022, 10:32:05 am
Yet another racist dog whistle from Stubby Mcbonespurs...

From: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3733512-trump-blames-mcconnell-for-gop-election-losses-he-blew-the-midterms/
Former President Trump sought to pin blame on Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) ... “He blew the Midterms, and everyone despises him and his otherwise lovely wife, Coco Chow!” Trump said.

I think that's at least the second time he has made questionable comments about Elaine Chao (a woman, I might add, who served in his cabinet almost to the very end, until just right after the Jan 6 terrorist attack).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on November 14, 2022, 10:36:32 am
Yet another racist dog whistle from Stubby Mcbonespurs...

From: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3733512-trump-blames-mcconnell-for-gop-election-losses-he-blew-the-midterms/
Former President Trump sought to pin blame on Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) ... “He blew the Midterms, and everyone despises him and his otherwise lovely wife, Coco Chow!” Trump said.

I think that's at least the second time he has made questionable comments about Elaine Chao (a woman, I might add, who served in his cabinet almost to the very end, until just right after the Jan 6 terrorist attack).

(https://media.tenor.com/Hk8lhY_rjdEAAAAC/let-them-fight.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 14, 2022, 10:51:38 am
In an act of outright cowardice, Pence waits until after the midterms before complaining about Trump jeopardizing him and his family.
https://www.businessinsider.com/mike-pence-says-trump-was-reckless-endangered-him-january-6-2022-11
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 14, 2022, 02:56:28 pm
In an act of outright cowardice, Pence waits until after the midterms before complaining about Trump jeopardizing him and his family.
https://www.businessinsider.com/mike-pence-says-trump-was-reckless-endangered-him-january-6-2022-11
There seems to be a lot of that from the republicans... they become subservient to Trump (despite the fact that it is obvious that he is a racist con-artist with no loyalty to the country, the voters who elected him, or those working for him). It is only much later that they admit that there was a problem with glorious leader.

It happened with Tillerson (who famously described Trump as a "moron"), it happened with Bolton (who found out that Trump was blackmailing a foreign country to interfere in American elections, and said nothing at the time), it happened with Mattis (who said in his resignation letter that the U.S. was without "mature leadership"),  Scaramucci (who has pointed out that Trump is dividing the country and has engaged in racist attacks), Ty Cobb (who said that Mueller's investigation was valid), and it looks like it is happening now with Pence.

I am sure that once Trump is (hopefully) locked up, we will probably hear from each and every member of his administration, and all his congressional supporters, about how they somehow 'knew' Trump was bad in an effort to redeem their image (yet won't explain why they continued to support him while he worked to destroy America)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on November 14, 2022, 03:32:43 pm
The republicans blaming Trump for the poor midterm performance is the flip side of when the Dems blame the left whenever they faceplant electorally: a convenient way to avoid any real self-reflection.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 14, 2022, 05:53:35 pm
John Kelly...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on November 15, 2022, 10:02:35 am
Quote
A new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll shows that 47 percent of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents say they would back Trump if the Republican presidential primary were held today. By comparison, 33 percent said they would back Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis. No other prospective candidate received above 5 percent in the poll, save former Vice President Mike Pence, who stood exactly at that figure.

link (https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/15/donald-trump-president-campaign-00066886)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 15, 2022, 10:13:05 am
F***

Biden vs Trump again... "Bum Fights in the Old Folks Home"

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on November 15, 2022, 10:40:04 am
F***

Biden vs Trump again... "Bum Fights in the Old Folks Home"

I wouldn't be surprised if Biden bows out. Trump on the other hand will fight to the bitter end. A third party campaign isn't out of the question I'm sure.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 15, 2022, 10:48:12 am
I wouldn't be surprised if Biden bows out. Trump on the other hand will fight to the bitter end. A third party campaign isn't out of the question I'm sure.

If I had to guess, I would say the Republican brand would be damaged by the lead-up to the election, ie. the infighting.

I really really hope Biden doesn't run but if he sees himself as the salve to Trump becoming Yankee Dictator he will stick around.

Harris is invisible, hopefully they are working on figuring out how to make her relevant to voters.  The "Black woman can't be president' angle will be hard to defeat.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on November 15, 2022, 11:10:01 am
If I had to guess, I would say the Republican brand would be damaged by the lead-up to the election, ie. the infighting.

It's funny because their brand for six years has been "Donald Trump" and they're gonna try and shove the toothpaste back in the tube now? Good luck.

Quote
I really really hope Biden doesn't run but if he sees himself as the salve to Trump becoming Yankee Dictator he will stick around.

Depends on how bad his cognitive decline goes between now and then and if he can be talked out of running again.

Quote
Harris is invisible, hopefully they are working on figuring out how to make her relevant to voters.  The "Black woman can't be president' angle will be hard to defeat.

It doesn't have to be her. if they were smart they'd find their next Obama, someone who wasn't alive during WW2. IDK who that is, maybe someone like Pritzker or Whitmer.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 15, 2022, 11:52:35 am
  maybe someone like Pritzker or Whitmer.

That gay soldier guy seems smart...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 15, 2022, 12:14:48 pm
That gay soldier guy seems smart...
Is this the guy? (The guy on the right)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 15, 2022, 12:24:46 pm
Is this the guy? (The guy on the right)

No that's Obama.

He's here in the photo... with the man who is his husband (and a bear)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfr_sDsW0AII5OC?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 15, 2022, 01:49:46 pm
He's married to a bear?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 15, 2022, 02:32:01 pm
He's married to a bear?

Why you think it should be illegal or something??
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on November 15, 2022, 02:38:44 pm
He's married to a bear?

Chasten is clearly a former twink, not a bear.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on November 15, 2022, 02:53:26 pm
He’s probably a furry too! 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 15, 2022, 03:08:24 pm
Chasten is clearly a former twink, not a bear.

What ?  Huh ?  What the... oh... Wow...

I mean I NEVER intended my post to be misread in this hilarious way !

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on November 15, 2022, 09:05:25 pm
Trump’s speech tonight making his announcement was actually fairly boring, compared to his speeches in 2016 and 2020.  I also don’t understand why he’s announcing this early.  I don’t think any major announcements will take place until spring or even summer of 2023.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 15, 2022, 11:02:56 pm
He's hoping they won't indict someone who's running for president because it would appear to be politically motivated.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 16, 2022, 12:05:49 am
He's hoping they won't indict someone who's running for president because it would appear to be politically motivated.
Hopefully Garland will not hesitate to prosecute him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on November 16, 2022, 09:46:32 am
Hopefully Garland will not hesitate to prosecute him.

Hopefully it can wait until after the GOP tears itself apart.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 17, 2022, 10:46:21 am
Quote
Hopefully Garland will not hesitate to prosecute him.
Hopefully it can wait until after the GOP tears itself apart.
There are problems with waiting however... It will likely take years for any indictment to work its way through the court system. I want to see Trump behind bars, not dying from a cheezburger induced heart attack before he sees the inside of a jail.

Plus, I don't think an indictment will matter to much in any sort of republican civil war. Trump will still keep campaigning, the MAGAchud will profess his innocence, and the rest of the republicans will be desperate to both embrace the republican base but also ignore the fact that they were submissive to Trump's whims for years.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 18, 2022, 06:31:59 am
Former Rand Paul campaign manager and Trump pardon receiver found guilty of funneling Russian money to Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 18, 2022, 02:47:08 pm
Garland has appointed a special counsel to head up the investigation into Trump.

From: https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/18/politics/justice-department-trump-special-counsel/index.html
Attorney General Merrick Garland on Friday appointed a special counsel to oversee the criminal investigations into the retention of national defense information at former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort... Jack Smith, the former chief prosecutor for the special court in The Hague, where he investigated war crimes in Kosovo, will oversee the investigations.

Initially I was a bit worried when I heard they were considering it... I pictured some long search for someone both the Democrats and Republicans could agree on. (Which of course wouldn't matter, because the MAGAchud will never be happy. The could pick Rudy Giulliani, and have him conclude it was all Hunter Biden's fault, and they would STILL whine and complain about "bias" and "witch hunt") I'm glad they had someone picked right away and hopefully the investigation won't be interrupted.

And I don't know if this had anything to do with the pick... but a former war crimes investigator? That would be a heck of a message to send to Trump with that pick.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on November 18, 2022, 02:47:45 pm
Garland has appointed a special counsel to head up the investigation into Trump.

From: https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/18/politics/justice-department-trump-special-counsel/index.html
Attorney General Merrick Garland on Friday appointed a special counsel to oversee the criminal investigations into the retention of national defense information at former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort... Jack Smith, the former chief prosecutor for the special court in The Hague, where he investigated war crimes in Kosovo, will oversee the investigations.

Initially I was a bit worried when I heard they were considering it... I pictured some long search for someone both the Democrats and Republicans could agree on. (Which of course wouldn't matter, because the MAGAchud will never be happy. The could pick Rudy Giulliani, and have him conclude it was all Hunter Biden's fault, and they would STILL whine and complain about "bias" and "witch hunt") I'm glad they had someone picked right away and hopefully the investigation won't be interrupted.

And I don't know if this had anything to do with the pick... but a former war crimes investigator? That would be a heck of a message to send to Trump with that pick.
The walls are closing in!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on November 18, 2022, 02:54:05 pm
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on November 18, 2022, 03:20:37 pm
The walls are closing in!

This is literally you talking about Hunter Biden's laptop.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 19, 2022, 02:47:34 pm
He's right though. Always talk, but nothing ever happens to Trump. Midterms are over. Lay some **** charges already.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on November 20, 2022, 03:53:27 pm
He's right though. Always talk, but nothing ever happens to Trump. Midterms are over. Lay some **** charges already.

 -k

He's rich, nothing ever happens to rich people.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 20, 2022, 04:15:39 pm
He's rich, nothing ever happens to rich people.
They even have a hilarious system where they fine you for offences. Rich people can pay their $300 speeding ticket and not even notice. It's like there's no punishment at all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on November 20, 2022, 04:18:00 pm
They even have a hilarious system where they fine you for offences. Rich people can pay their $300 speeding ticket and not even notice. It's like there's no punishment at all.
You can pay speeding tickets in Canada too. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 20, 2022, 04:38:06 pm
He's rich, nothing ever happens to rich people.

Jeffery Epstein, Conrad Black, Harvey Weinstein, Bernie Madoff, Martha Stewart, etc.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on November 20, 2022, 05:33:05 pm
Jeffery Epstein, Conrad Black, Harvey Weinstein, Bernie Madoff, Martha Stewart, etc.

That etc is doing so much heavy lifting lol.

There’s no way you’re going to actually argue that the wealthy and the poor face the same legal scrutiny and consequences for wrongdoing.

I mean ffs, how long did Epstein and Weinstein prey on people before they were caught?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 20, 2022, 05:37:28 pm
You can pay speeding tickets in Canada too. 😂
I think you're not understanding again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on November 21, 2022, 10:23:31 am
They even have a hilarious system where they fine you for offences. Rich people can pay their $300 speeding ticket and not even notice. It's like there's no punishment at all.

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 21, 2022, 04:43:50 pm
Re: Wealthy people not facing justice...
Quote
Jeffery Epstein, Conrad Black, Harvey Weinstein, Bernie Madoff, Martha Stewart, etc.
That etc is doing so much heavy lifting lol.
There’s no way you’re going to actually argue that the wealthy and the poor face the same legal scrutiny and consequences for wrongdoing.
It is true...wealthy people ARE treated differently than poor/middle class people. Financial crimes are often not investigated, and when they are they often hide behind shell corporations. And when they actually do get charged they can afford better legal representation. (Not to mention the cases involving financial crimes are themselves are often quite complex, making it harder to get a conviction.)

But that doesn't mean that there isn't reason for hope when it comes to prosecuting Stubby McBonespurs. The documents case is easy to understand for jurors (relying on simple posession), the investigation has the attention of the DoJ (unlike a lot of white collar crime that simply flies under the radar), and there is significant precedent. And even if Trump can afford the greatest lawyers (assuming he can find one that will work for him, and assuming he actually pays attention to their advice), the case against him seems pretty air-tight.

Some of the other cases are trickier... the issues of Jan6 terrorism and Georgia election fraud have some complexities (issues of free speech and executive privilege... even if Trump loses, he can still keep them tied up in court for years.) And it was really disappointing when Bragg decided not to proceed with a fraud case against Trump in NY. But at least James is able to keep the heat on him.

But if he goes to jail just because he really had to have a copy of the north korean love letter, I will be happy.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 21, 2022, 05:15:55 pm
That etc is doing so much heavy lifting lol.

There’s no way you’re going to actually argue that the wealthy and the poor face the same legal scrutiny and consequences for wrongdoing.

I mean ffs, how long did Epstein and Weinstein prey on people before they were caught?

They come under the same scrutiny but have a definite advantage in the amount of money they can spend on lawyers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on November 21, 2022, 05:23:14 pm
They come under the same scrutiny but have a definite advantage in the amount of money they can spend on lawyers.

They certainly do not.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 22, 2022, 01:10:05 am
Quote
There’s no way you’re going to actually argue that the wealthy and the poor face the same legal scrutiny and consequences for wrongdoing.
They come under the same scrutiny but have a definite advantage in the amount of money they can spend on lawyers.
They also have the advantage in that the types of crimes they are involved in (white collar crimes like bank fraud) are a lot more complex than the type of crimes a poor person might engage in.

Police are on the lookout for break-ins/muggings/etc. They are easy to detect. They are less on the lookout for "We underestimated the value of this real estate when we filled out our taxes" and "Our company avoided income tax by buying an executive a car instead of paying higher salary" because they need more complex financial analysis and more data to uncover.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on November 25, 2022, 03:19:59 pm
Lmao Trump is really scraping the bottom of the barrel here.

Kanye West Pals Up with Holocaust Denier Nick Fuentes, Travels to Meet Trump at Mar-A-Lago
 (https://www.yahoo.com/video/kanye-west-pals-holocaust-denier-044917405.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly90LmNvLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAIIWXcp2FP_vPQnSXy1kojuRtUnKcNeE0yhd-WEpGSEUZmncXctFVC-Gq7T8LYIoLsA_jvhyBfrjyHNBlCKJTc9ojNu6qO6MMKjQnuHQpE0i53E9q0ZUc790Qr9VjHqz4jrOoo2CsK5_BxVZyiLhQx4zQA9hRK5x9TDZbJZKHlVk)
Quote
Just when you thought Kanye West’s far-right heel turn couldn’t get any more disturbing, the former rap legend is now associating himself with white nationalist and Holocaust denier, Nick Fuentes. In fact, the two recently traveled together to Mar-A-Lago to meet with Donald Trump.

The 24-year-old Fuentes has emerged as one of the leading figures of the far-right movement for his incendiary views on women, Jewish people, the LGBTQ+ community, and other minorities. Notably, he openly praises Hitler, believes that the Holocaust was a hoax, and is opposed to women’s right to vote. He was also present for the “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia in August 2017, and spoke at a “Stop the Steal” rally in Washington, DC on January 6th.
And now, he’s hobnobbing with Kanye West.

As West himself revealed in a new campaign-style video released to Twitter on Thursday evening, he and Fuentes recently traveled to Mar-A-Lago, where they pitched Donald Trump on being West’s running mate for the 2024 presidential election. In the video, he is seen debriefing with Fuentes and campaign staffer / fellow alt-right personality, Milo Yiannopoulos. “I walked in with intelligence,” West recounts. “Trump was really impressed with Nick Fuentes.”
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 25, 2022, 04:09:27 pm
IDK how much of this is real though... the troll myself to the presidency game has its limits
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on November 25, 2022, 04:20:27 pm
IDK how much of this is real though... the troll myself to the presidency game has its limits
1

Yeah the audience for this kind stunt is like a couple hundred incel weirdos, tops.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 25, 2022, 08:54:54 pm
IDK how much of this is real though...
Not sure what you mean.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 25, 2022, 08:57:37 pm
Not sure what you mean.

Them... meeting and doing what exactly ?  It just seems like trolling
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on November 25, 2022, 09:44:22 pm
Them... meeting and doing what exactly ?  It just seems like trolling
Definitely.  I think it’s a way for Trump to get some attention for himself, since nobody really cared much about his announcement a couple of weeks ago.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 25, 2022, 11:15:57 pm
Meeting with an openly anti-semitic fascist to get attention? How can you worship someone like that?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on November 26, 2022, 08:45:54 am
Meeting with an openly anti-semitic fascist to get attention? How can you worship someone like that?
I know right?

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 26, 2022, 09:06:34 am
I know right?

(Attachment Link)

Also disturbing but there are definite shades of difference here. Just read a Jerusalem Post article on that meeting and there were no conclusions to be drawn as to whether this was entirely intentional or a result of subterfuge. Also, not Obama's home but a group meeting. Also is he a Holocaust denier?  Honest question.

So the major difference you have to comment on is why the Jerusalem Post is asking what was going on and nobody is answering versus reports that Trump was enthralled with his house guest.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 26, 2022, 09:29:26 am
You think the Secret Service allows meetings with people they know nothing about?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on November 26, 2022, 09:34:36 am
Also disturbing but there are definite shades of difference here. Just read a Jerusalem Post article on that meeting and there were no conclusions to be drawn as to whether this was entirely intentional or a result of subterfuge. Also, not Obama's home but a group meeting. Also is he a Holocaust denier?  Honest question.

So the major difference you have to comment on is why the Jerusalem Post is asking what was going on and nobody is answering versus reports that Trump was enthralled with his house guest.
Trump likes Kanye because Kanye says nice things about him.  That’s pretty much why Trump likes anyone.  Regardless, I don’t support Trump, and I hope he doesn’t actually run in 2024, and if he does, he doesn’t win.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 26, 2022, 09:34:46 am
I know right?

(Attachment Link)
Obama has condemned Farakkhan and didn't have dinner with him (Farakkhan showed up at the Congressional Black Caucus, where that picture was taken nearly 20 years ago.)
But it sounds like you're trying to justifiy meeting with anti-semites. Why can't you just say that's a bad thing to do?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 26, 2022, 09:35:47 am
Trump likes Kanye because Kanye says nice things about him.  That’s pretty much why Trump likes anyone.  Regardless, I don’t support Trump, and I hope he doesn’t actually run in 2024, and if he does, he doesn’t win.
When he gets the nomination, you will defend him to the end.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on November 26, 2022, 09:58:27 am
When he gets the nomination, you will defend him to the end.
It depends on the policies that each candidate supports.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 26, 2022, 10:03:43 am
Can we get a better explanation than usual next time?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 26, 2022, 10:04:14 am
Trump has no policies and he never did. Just grifting. Do you even believe yourself when you try and pretend you're not just hopelessly devoted to him?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 26, 2022, 10:04:58 am
Trump runs on falsehoods like there are Marxist forces threatening.

It's very emotionally based.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on November 26, 2022, 10:05:55 am
Trump has no policies and he never did. Just grifting. Do you even believe yourself when you try and pretend you're not just hopelessly devoted to him?
No, there were big policy differences between Clinton/Biden and Trump.  For instance, energy.  Huge differences.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 05, 2022, 01:47:16 pm
Wow! I guess I was wrong!

Hunter Biden's laptop has provided clear evidence of fraud and foreign influence! Looks like Trump and all his minions were vindicated!

From: https://news.yahoo.com/trump-had-hidden-19-8-125434457.html
Donald Trump failed to disclose a $19.8 million loan from a company with ties to North Korea while he was president...Trump owed the money to L/P Daewoo while he was campaigning in 2016 and into his presidency, according to records. He didn’t list the debt in financial disclosure filings, as candidates and presidents are expected to do...Trump may have skirted disclosure laws...because the loan was on the books of his company, the Trump Organization, and not identified as a personal loan...The debt would have sparked conflict of interest concerns over an American president’s indebtedness to a foreign operation...

Ok, I meant the "hunter biden laptop" thing as a joke. My point is, Republicans are falsely claiming some sort of naughtiness (chinese influence! Ukrainian oil company!) on behalf of Hunter Biden (who wasn't even a member of any Democratic president's administration) while ignoring much more direct evidence against Stubby McBonespurs.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 05, 2022, 02:12:21 pm
So confusing....

Maybe somebody will get in trouble eventually....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 05, 2022, 02:40:13 pm
Weird that Trump, the de facto leader of the GOP, can literally call for the termination of the U.S. Constitutionand it's not even front page news.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 05, 2022, 03:07:46 pm
Weird that Trump, the de facto leader of the GOP, can literally call for the termination of the U.S. Constitutionand it's not even front page news.
Probably because he’s not the de facto leader, he’s just a private citizen now.  Ron DeSantis is the de facto leader now, especially now that the mid terms are over.  Keep trying though! 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 05, 2022, 03:18:00 pm
A private citizen? You mean like Hunter Biden? LOL. He is an official candidate, the frontrunner for the nomination and will easily beat low-energy Disantis. But weird that you keep whining about how unfair it was that he lost when you admit he's unfit and a danger to the Constitution.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 05, 2022, 03:29:30 pm
Weird that Trump, the de facto leader of the GOP, can literally call for the termination of the U.S. Constitutionand it's not even front page news.
How can you claim that he's the "defacto leader"?

Just because 95% of republicans voting in the last midterms had a favorable view of Trump, opinion polls as recently as mid-November showed Trump solidly in the lead in polls against other Republican candidates, and the majority of republican politicians either did not comment on Trump's dinner with Fuentes or did not mention Trump by name, does not mean he is a leader in any way.

I am sure the MAGAchud will come up with some excuse why Trump somehow doesn't really matter, despite the fact that he still enjoys widespread support in the party.

https://www.cnn.com/election/2022/exit-polls/national-results/house/0
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/15/donald-trump-president-campaign-00066886

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 06, 2022, 03:38:57 pm
Looks like the witch hunters actually found a witch..

From: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-organization-verdict-taxes-1.6676368
Donald Trump's company was convicted of tax fraud...a significant repudiation of financial practices at the former president's business...the Trump Organization was accused of being complicit in a scheme by top executives to avoid paying personal income taxes on job perks... the Trump Organization could be fined up to $1.6 million US-a relatively small amount for a company of its size, though the conviction might make some of its future deals more complicated. Trump...has said the case against his company was part of a politically motivated "witch hunt"

Unfortunately it wasn't a criminal trial of Trump himself, although prosecutors in the case went through a lot of effort to tie Trump personally into the crimes. Hopefully the victory will encourage prosecutors to widen their investigations. (And I can't help but think it could be problematic for the next fraud trial in New York launched by Leticia James.)


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 06, 2022, 03:48:41 pm
A private citizen? You mean like Hunter Biden? LOL. He is an official candidate, the frontrunner for the nomination and will easily beat low-energy Disantis. But weird that you keep whining about how unfair it was that he lost when you admit he's unfit and a danger to the Constitution.
Nobody says Hunter Biden is the leader of the Democrat party.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 06, 2022, 04:07:16 pm
Exactly. Except you pretend it's an affront to democracy if some people don't want to engage in spreading illegally hacked dickpicks of a private citizen who isn't running for office.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 06, 2022, 04:25:19 pm
Exactly. Except you pretend it's an affront to democracy if some people don't want to engage in spreading illegally hacked dickpicks of a private citizen who isn't running for office.
Complete nonsense.  The material in question had to do with his illegal business dealings, that possibly implicate the president.  Continue to play dumb, it suits you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 06, 2022, 04:40:48 pm
Complete nonsense.  The material in question had to do with his illegal business dealings, that possibly implicate the president.  Continue to play dumb, it suits you.
If I called Trump's business dealings illegal you would shriek and call me a fascist for convicting him without due process.

Up until today, of course. Because today Trump's business dealings were found to be illegal in a court of law.

Meanwhile, "the walls are closing in" on Hunter. 😆
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on December 06, 2022, 05:13:37 pm
Complete nonsense.  The material in question had to do with his illegal business dealings, that possibly implicate the president.  Continue to play dumb, it suits you.

It was just dick pics.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 06, 2022, 05:43:13 pm
It was just dick pics.
Maybe his business was selling his dick pics, and he wasn't paying taxes on it.

That would make him as bad as the Trump organization!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 06, 2022, 05:59:17 pm
Maybe his business was selling his dick pics, and he wasn't paying taxes on it.

That would make him as bad as the Trump organization!
It’s not just pictures.  The FBI wouldn’t be interested if that’s all that it was.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 06, 2022, 06:34:22 pm
Aren't they interested because Roger Stone hacked him and disseminated his dickpics?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on December 06, 2022, 09:06:49 pm
It’s not just pictures.  The FBI wouldn’t be interested if that’s all that it was.

Funny how you don't apply this same logic to the various FBI investigations into Trump, from the Russia stuff to the classified documents, but then you are an extremely retarded individual.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 07, 2022, 12:21:12 am
Funny how you don't apply this same logic to the various FBI investigations into Trump, from the Russia stuff to the classified documents, but then you are an extremely retarded individual.
Hey, any day now we will see the Durham investigation uncover a massive deep state conspiracy absolving Trump of all the Russian accusations! Massive numbers of convictions of those involved!

Its coming soon now.

Any day.

The walls are closing in on the deep state.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 07, 2022, 09:07:02 am
Hey, any day now we will see the Durham investigation uncover a massive deep state conspiracy absolving Trump of all the Russian accusations! Massive numbers of convictions of those involved!

Its coming soon now.

Any day.

The walls are closing in on the deep state.
There has been.  The Russian server that was reportedly communicating with a Trump server was completely made up.  FBI agents lost their jobs fir falsifying affidavits in order to get FISA warrants against Trump associates.  This is all banana republic authoritarian police state behaviour.  But you s**t libs are ok with it because it’s against Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on December 07, 2022, 02:50:16 pm
There has been.  The Russian server that was reportedly communicating with a Trump server was completely made up.  FBI agents lost their jobs fir falsifying affidavits in order to get FISA warrants against Trump associates.  This is all banana republic authoritarian police state behaviour.  But you s**t libs are ok with it because it’s against Trump.

Banana Republics, famously places where agents of the state face accountability for their misdeeds.

BTW I like how you're hyping those agents being fired as proof of their perfidy while earlier in the thread you were crying about them only getting a "slap on the wrist." (https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/american-politics/the-donald-trump-thread/?message=93600)

Also funny seeing right wingers concoct their own version of Russiagate out of the Twitter Papers/Hunter's laptop nothingburger.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 08, 2022, 12:54:50 am
This would have made a heck of an episode of Storage Wars...

From: https://www.yahoo.com/news/report-classified-items-found-trump-193227681.html
Lawyers for former President Donald Trump found at least two items marked as classified during a recent search of a storage unit in West Palm Beach, Florida...the storage unit in which they were found had been used to hold items from an office in northern Virginia used by Trump staffers after he left office...

Now keep in mind that this was months after the government made a request for Trump to return any documents he had, AFTER Trump's lawyers sent a letter saying there are no more documents, and AFTER the government executed a search warrant for Mar a lago.

Seems like such a... random... place to have found documents. Hopefully the government decides they need to conduct more searches of Trump's properties in order to track down other things that might be missing.

ETA:
The way a non-banana republic would handle this case is to treat Trump like any other citizen and have him arrested for stealing government property. The way a banana republic would handle this is to say "you're well-connected so we will treat you different".


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 15, 2022, 11:36:49 am
I highly recommend shady purchase as many digital Trump trading cards he can afford. At $99 they are a steal and, like crypto and NFTs, sure to be an excellent investment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 15, 2022, 01:16:07 pm
I highly recommend shady purchase as many digital Trump trading cards he can afford. At $99 they are a steal and, like crypto and NFTs, sure to be an excellent investment.

geezaz! Trump had been teasing this "major announcement" for a couple of weeks:

(https://i.imgur.com/GG1xZUn.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 15, 2022, 01:21:56 pm
I highly recommend shady purchase as many digital Trump trading cards he can afford. At $99 they are a steal and, like crypto and NFTs, sure to be an excellent investment.
Your ignorance is never ending.  Digital trading cards have been around for years.  Ever heard of Magic the Gathering?  EA used them in games like FIFA, Madden, etc.  You’re an old man yelling at the clouds.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 15, 2022, 01:24:11 pm
I highly recommend shady purchase as many digital Trump trading cards he can afford. At $99 they are a steal and, like crypto and NFTs, sure to be an excellent investment.
Maybe shady can use all the profits from his crypto that he was bragging about to pay for his Trump cards.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 15, 2022, 01:29:37 pm
geezaz! Trump had been teasing this "major announcement" for a couple of weeks:

(Image of a Trump 'trading card' cut for space)
Minor nitpick...

Why would the 'Trump as Super Hero' picture show him in a boxing ring? After all, supposedly a super hero has, well, super powers (which would make any sort of athletic competition unfair) and should supposedly be doing hero things (rather than engaging in fisticuffs.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 15, 2022, 01:36:22 pm
Your ignorance is never ending.  Digital trading cards have been around for years.  Ever heard of Magic the Gathering?  EA used them in games like FIFA, Madden, etc.  You’re an old man yelling at the clouds.
If you had learned to read above a Grade 4 level, you would have understood I didn't say they didn't exist before.
But I like to see Trumpers totally humiliated again by being reminded they were conned by a clown. And, like you, none of them are smart enough to know when they're humiliated.  🤣
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 15, 2022, 01:41:18 pm
OMG it's real...

The huckster has delved to new depths of hucking... he's selling zoom calls with himself, trading cards etc.

Real presidential like...

https://collecttrumpcards.com/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 15, 2022, 01:42:16 pm
ends with....

"Remember Christmas is coming and this makes a great Christmas gift..."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 15, 2022, 01:45:03 pm
It's funny how he clearly has no respect for his MAGA followers and thinks of them only as rubes to be conned. But it's also funny how he hates his physical appearance so much that he has his head photoshopped onto a more manly body.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 15, 2022, 01:50:47 pm
ends with....

"Remember Christmas is coming and this makes a great Christmas gift..."
MH wins the internet today.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 15, 2022, 01:52:14 pm
If you had learned to read above a Grade 4 level, you would have understood I didn't say they didn't exist before.
But I like to see Trumpers totally humiliated again by being reminded they were conned by a clown. And, like you, none of them are smart enough to know when they're humiliated.  🤣
Yeah, if only he was as principled as AOC and the $100 hoodies she sells on her website! 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 15, 2022, 01:52:58 pm
It's funny how he clearly has no respect for his MAGA followers and thinks of them only as rubes to be conned. But it's also funny how he hates his physical appearance so much that he has his head photoshopped onto a more manly body.
Right.  No go purchase your carbon offsets! 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 15, 2022, 01:53:18 pm
Stuart Varney of FOX tells Elaine Chao "we were all appalled with what [Trump] said"

Little drip drip drips of FOX sowing disapproval for ol' 45.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/fox-business-host-tells-elaine-001107456.html

It's like how the CIA used to close-watch Pravda to see which chairman was out of approval with Breznev...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 15, 2022, 01:54:10 pm
Yeah, if only he was as principled as AOC and the $100 hoodies she sells on her website! 😂

:O

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264474900542

$39
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 15, 2022, 02:05:07 pm
Yeah, if only he was as principled as AOC and the $100 hoodies she sells on her website! 😂
You must mean the $65 hoodies made in the USA with union labour that are registered as campaign contributions.

Is that your biggest failed whataboutism yet? How humiliating! 🤣
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 15, 2022, 02:09:48 pm
:O

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264474900542

$39
$88

https://shop.ocasiocortez.com/collections/all/products/the-unapologetic-street-series-team-aoc-hoodie
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 15, 2022, 02:10:33 pm
You must mean the $65 hoodies made in the USA with union labour that are registered as campaign contributions.

Is that your biggest failed whataboutism yet? How humiliating! 🤣
No, I mean the $88 hoodie.
https://shop.ocasiocortez.com/collections/all/products/the-unapologetic-street-series-team-aoc-hoodie

I also like the $27 dollar coffee mugs! 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 15, 2022, 02:14:44 pm
Ah, the one where it clearly says in your link is handmade with 100 percent of the proceeds going to charity.

I will concede that Trump doesn't have the option of operating a charity anymore since he scammed the money from those children with cancer.  🤣
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 15, 2022, 02:19:11 pm
Ah, the one where it clearly says in your link is handmade with 100 percent of the proceeds going to charity.

I will concede that Trump doesn't have the option of operating a charity anymore since he scammed the money from those children with cancer.  🤣

That's stupid.  You can't compare apples and oranges...

Trump is a billionaire and EVERY DOLLAR goes in his pocket NOT charity, NOT a campaign

There.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 15, 2022, 02:25:09 pm
Ah, the one where it clearly says in your link is handmade with 100 percent of the proceeds going to charity.

I will concede that Trump doesn't have the option of operating a charity anymore since he scammed the money from those children with cancer.  🤣
That particular item is the only one that is donated to charity.  The $65 hoodies, the $27 coffee mugs, the $90 posters, all go to AOC’s bank account.  But she HATES capitalism! 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on December 15, 2022, 02:27:16 pm
That particular item is the only one that is donated to charity.  The $65 hoodies, the $27 coffee mugs, the $90 posters, all go to AOC’s bank account.  But she HATES capitalism! 😂

Imagine being so **** stupid that you think that people are mad about a politician selling merch and not just laughing at the pathetic scam Trump rolled out.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 15, 2022, 02:29:05 pm
That particular item is the only one that is donated to charity.  The $65 hoodies, the $27 coffee mugs, the $90 posters, all go to AOC’s bank account.  But she HATES capitalism! 😂
No, it says clearly they go to her campaign and are registered as campaign contributions.
Just take the L, loser, and then go back and try to figure out how you interpreted my original post as saying I said digital trading cards never existed before. LoL
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 15, 2022, 02:29:22 pm
Oh and I love her “union printed” notification.  Not union made, union printed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 15, 2022, 02:30:23 pm
Ah, the one where it clearly says in your link is handmade with 100 percent of the proceeds going to charity.

I will concede that Trump doesn't have the option of operating a charity anymore since he scammed the money from those children with cancer.  🤣
Hey, that's totally unfair.

Trump did not just scam children with cancer. He also scammed veterans groups, museums, and 9/11 victims.

Say what you want about Trump, but he's an equal opportunity con-artist.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 15, 2022, 02:35:15 pm
Trump is a billionaire and EVERY DOLLAR goes in his pocket NOT charity, NOT a campaign
I agree that the money is going into Trump's pockets and not a charity.

I disagree that he is a billionaire.

We don't know how much he is actually worth, but given the fact that 1) he has admitted to be the 'king of debt', 2) a lawsuit against an author who claimed Trump was worth far less than a billion failed, and 3) he himself claimed much of his value is wrapped up in his 'brand' rather than actual physical assets (property, cash, stocks/bonds, etc.) I suspect his actual value is far less than a billion.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 15, 2022, 02:45:23 pm
Uh oh spaghetti-o 😱

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez under ethics investigation
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-ethics-investigation-unclear-reasons/story?id=94791508
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 15, 2022, 02:55:18 pm
Why are you posting that in a Donald Trump thread?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 15, 2022, 03:24:25 pm
Uh oh spaghetti-o 😱

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez under ethics investigation
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-ethics-investigation-unclear-reasons/story?id=94791508

Isn't this about her attending the MET ball ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 15, 2022, 03:39:38 pm
Yes, Trump may have ripped off children’s cancer charities, among others, and taken millions and millions from his supporters to line his own pockets, but AOC has sold made-in-USA hoodies for charity that were only printed in a union shop. She also may have broken rules by going to the Met gala. So there.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 15, 2022, 03:59:28 pm
Yes, Trump may have ripped off children’s cancer charities, among others, and taken millions and millions from his supporters to line his own pockets, but AOC has sold made-in-USA hoodies for charity that were only printed in a union shop. She also may have broken rules by going to the Met gala. So there.

Ok.  Well that's worth the same as the entire US political system in a sense.

Enjoy your royalty, America, you fought a revolution against George III to make it happen.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 15, 2022, 04:44:07 pm
Isn't this about her attending the MET ball ?
They didn’t say.  But it could be.  Tickets to the MET Gala are tens of thousands of dollars, maybe more.  Plus when you’re there you receive other gifts as well.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 15, 2022, 05:08:46 pm
Goodness. Well, that certainly justifies Trump scamming his supporters and charities.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 15, 2022, 07:05:33 pm
Yes, Trump may have ripped off children’s cancer charities, among others, and taken millions and millions from his supporters to line his own pockets, but AOC has sold made-in-USA hoodies for charity that were only printed in a union shop. She also may have broken rules by going to the Met gala. So there.
Heck, that's not even the most recent scandal involving congress-critters.

REPUBLICAN Madison Cawthorn was found to have violated the STOCT act (which requires members to disclose various financial transactions) for the third time this year.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/scandal-plagued-republican-rep-madison-203435126.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 15, 2022, 07:15:57 pm
It's funny how he clearly has no respect for his MAGA followers and thinks of them only as rubes to be conned. But it's also funny how he hates his physical appearance so much that he has his head photoshopped onto a more manly body.
Well, at least one of them seems to be figuring things out...

From: https://www.businessinsider.com/baked-alaska-tweet-going-to-jail-for-nft-salesman-trump-2022-12
The far-right internet personality known as "Baked Alaska" was less than pleased with former President Donald Trump's announcement Thursday that he's launching a series of digital trading card NFTs. "i can't believe i'm going to jail for an nft salesman"... Gionet, who livestreamed himself storming the Capitol on January 6, didn't mince words when reacting to Trump's announcement. "i wanted to make america great again but all i got was this ****** nft," he tweeted.

You can't help laughing at the idiot who just now seems to be figuring out what so many have known for so long.

I wonder if shady will ever have a similar flash of insight.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 16, 2022, 10:08:42 pm
Yet more problems for Stubby McBonespurs...

From: https://www.salon.com/2022/12/15/lawyers-bid-to-delay-trial-over-pyramid-scheme-just-backfired-on-his-2024-campaign/?fbclid=IwAR0rkE7UMrUk4ZSyBs4X7LWUE6_RUbmFHqtsGhFlVoqeAY4x7geV1Sumzew
A federal lawsuit accusing former President Donald Trump and his family of promoting a pyramid scheme will finally go to trial on Jan. 29, 2024...The four plaintiffs claim that Trump should be held liable for lending his and his children Donald Trump Jr, Eric Trump and Ivanka Trump's names to a pyramid scheme that broke state and federal laws... The case will finally see a jury roughly six years after its initial filing. It encountered repeated delays after Trump's attempts to dismiss the case and to publicly disclose its plaintiffs.

Best part is, it starts in the same year that Trump is trying to get re-elected, and the main reason it wasn't held sooner is because Trump was using his delaying tactics! (Well, they might have held it in the fall of 2023, but Trump already had a lawsuit to deal with then.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 21, 2022, 09:20:42 am
The House ways and means committee have Trump's tax returns and are deciding whether to release them publicly.

Information that we do have now is... well, pretty much what we expected.

From: https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/12/21/trumps-tax-returns-to-be-discussed-by-congressional-panel/
...the Trump administration may have disregarded an IRS requirement dating back to 1977 that mandates audits of a president’s tax filings. The IRS only began to audit Trump’s 2016 tax filings on April 3, 2019....IRS agents in charge of the audits repeatedly did not bring in specialists with expertise assessing the complicated structure of Trump’s holdings...
...
The report raised multiple red flags about aspects of Trump’s tax filings, including his carryover losses, deductions tied to conservation and charitable donations, and loans to his children that could be taxable gifts.


Nothing too surprising here... we already knew Trump was a tax cheat thanks to the recent conviction of the Trump organization for Tax fraud. And we already know how of his habit of messing up with the smooth functioning of government.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 21, 2022, 09:21:54 am
Ain't nuthin' gön happin
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 21, 2022, 09:48:15 am
What? He lied when he said he was being audited? I'm shocked, I tell you!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 21, 2022, 10:25:39 am
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 22, 2022, 11:03:11 am
What? He lied when he said he was being audited? I'm shocked, I tell you!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkjGrg1WAAoy0fC?format=jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 22, 2022, 12:02:43 pm
What? He lied when he said he was being audited? I'm shocked, I tell you!
Technically he may not have lied when he said his taxes were being audited in 2016. (There is some sort of weird 'trigger' that certain returns with large deductions get sidelined and his taxes prior to that were in sort of a zombie state...) He was of course lying when he said his returns COULDN'T get released back then.

The issue for his post-2016 returns was different. By law presidential tax returns MUST be audited. But in Trump's case they were not, until democrats in congress requested the returns. That was illegal, and they need to find out why those audits were not done.

I suspect it probably has something to do with Mnuchin, who initially ran interference for Trump by withholding the tax returns in the first place. (So it seems like the type of thing he would do.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 22, 2022, 12:28:17 pm
Technically he may not have lied when he said his taxes were being audited in 2016. (There is some sort of weird 'trigger' that certain returns with large deductions get sidelined and his taxes prior to that were in sort of a zombie state...) He was of course lying when he said his returns COULDN'T get audited back then.

The issue for his post-2016 returns was different. By law presidential tax returns MUST be audited. But in Trump's case they were not, until democrats in congress requested the returns. That was illegal, and they need to find out why those audits were not done.

I suspect it probably has something to do with Mnuchin, who initially ran interference for Trump by withholding the tax returns in the first place. (So it seems like the type of thing he would do.)
Trump wasn’t withholding tax returns.  There’s no law requiring them to be made public as the IRS gets them every year.  It’s up to the IRS to do their job, not farm it out to the general public who aren’t tax code experts.  Just like there’s no law requiring medical records to be made public.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 23, 2022, 06:19:56 am
Turns out he even lied about donating his salary. Trumpers will be remembered as the stupidest people ever, bar none. Lol
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 23, 2022, 09:40:17 am
Turns out he even lied about donating his salary. Trumpers will be remembered as the stupidest people ever, bar none. Lol
Hey, that's not fair, calling them the 'stupidest people ever'!

They are also the most untrustworthy, hypocritical people ever.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 23, 2022, 11:38:30 am
Trump wasn’t withholding tax returns.  There’s no law requiring them to be made public as the IRS gets them every year.  It’s up to the IRS to do their job, not farm it out to the general public who aren’t tax code experts.  Just like there’s no law requiring medical records to be made public.

Trump is the first presidential candidate since Nixon that hasn't released their tax return.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 23, 2022, 11:45:48 am
Trump is the first presidential candidate since Nixon that hasn't released their tax return.
Yes, but there's no requirement to do so.  It's something that Mitt Romney's dad started back in the 1960s.  Before that, it wasn't a thing at all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 23, 2022, 11:52:10 am
Yes, but there's no requirement to do so.  It's something that Mitt Romney's dad started back in the 1960s.  Before that, it wasn't a thing at all.

Not only has Trump not provided his returns, he has fought tooth and nail to prevent it. Kind of makes it difficult for the Trump cult to demand transparency from anyone else don't you think?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 23, 2022, 11:58:38 am
Not only has Trump not provided his returns, he has fought tooth and nail to prevent it. Kind of makes it difficult for the Trump cult to demand transparency from anyone else don't you think?
Definitely.  I think making tax returns public is unnecessary, as the IRS gets them every year.  I’ve never demanded any politician release them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 23, 2022, 12:46:08 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naFlzcAzY2E
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 23, 2022, 01:33:09 pm
Definitely.  I think making tax returns public is unnecessary, as the IRS gets them every year.  I’ve never demanded any politician release them.
I can see why you would want it kept secret, judging from how Trump absorbed millions of taxpayer dollars and paid nothing. It makes you people look like sh!t.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 23, 2022, 02:39:48 pm
I can see why you would want it kept secret, judging from how Trump absorbed millions of taxpayer dollars and paid nothing.
Not to mention the fact that he was doing business with a company associated with North Korea. (Something people might have wanted to know prior to the election, given the "love letters" between him and Kim Jong-Un.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 23, 2022, 02:52:46 pm
Trump is the first presidential candidate since Nixon that hasn't released their tax return.
Yup. And as I pointed out before, he lied about it...

He lied when he said he was going to release them. (Because obviously he never did)

And then later, he tried to backtrack by saying he could not release them because they were under audit, which was another lie because there are no legal barriers to releasing returns even when under audit.

So 2 lies (that aren't even consistent with each other), from the republican that the MAGAchud claim "tells it like it is".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 23, 2022, 03:58:08 pm
Trump is human garbage.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 23, 2022, 04:53:49 pm
I can see why you would want it kept secret, judging from how Trump absorbed millions of taxpayer dollars and paid nothing. It makes you people look like sh!t.
I just refuse to erode personal privacy rights, like you and your ilk.  Whether it’s this, or medical privacy, you continue to go down the path of authoritarianism.  It’s really sad to see classical Liberal positions and principles like privacy rights eroded and abandoned just because you hate and have a unhealthy obsession with a particular individual.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 23, 2022, 05:23:03 pm
He has a right to privacy by not running for president. The president is a public figure. And you cheered when he wanted to call in the military to deal with BLM protesters because you love Nazis.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 23, 2022, 05:54:58 pm
He has a right to privacy by not running for president. The president is a public figure. And you cheered when he wanted to call in the military to deal with BLM protesters because you love Nazis.
Complete nonsense.  All Americans have rights, even presidents.  Stop eroding rights because of your hatred and unhealthy obsession with Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 23, 2022, 09:54:46 pm
Presidents don't have the right to hide their business dealings with enemy governments.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 23, 2022, 10:43:01 pm
Yup. And as I pointed out before, he lied about it...

He lied when he said he was going to release them. (Because obviously he never did)

And then later, he tried to backtrack by saying he could not release them because they were under audit, which was another lie because there are no legal barriers to releasing returns even when under audit.

So 2 lies (that aren't even consistent with each other), from the republican that the MAGAchud claim "tells it like it is".

Only two?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 26, 2022, 12:28:00 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/UURftSn.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 26, 2022, 01:59:02 pm
Weird that he would bring the special prosecutor's wife and family into it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 26, 2022, 08:50:45 pm
Weird that he would bring the special prosecutor's wife and family into it.

AG Garland appointed Jack Smith, to serve as Special Counsel to oversee two ongoing criminal investigations:
=> the first is the investigation, as described in court filings in the District of Columbia, into whether any person or entity unlawfully interfered with the transfer of power following the 2020 presidential election or the certification of the Electoral College vote held on or about January 6, 2021.
=> the second is the ongoing investigation involving classified documents and other presidential records, as well as the possible obstruction of that investigation, referenced and described in court filings submitted in a pending matter in the Southern District of Florida.

in any case, it's a tried & true Trump formula to attempt to publicly vilify, belittle and ostracize prosecutors; the most immediate past target being, of course, special prosecutor Robert Mueller and the 'Russia Investigation'. As I just read, Jack Smith's wife is a most accomplished 'progressive' documentarian... I don't read that she's overtly political but certainly some of her documentary's speak for themselves in that regard.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 26, 2022, 09:04:49 pm
Weird that he would bring the special prosecutor's wife and family into it.

It's Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 26, 2022, 09:17:59 pm
It's Trump.
Exactly.  There should be no real surprises anymore.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 27, 2022, 06:42:32 am
Exactly.  There should be no real surprises anymore.
You'd think. But that seems low even for you guys. Is there a depth at which you would say "I cannot worship this man any longer"? You're still going to be full MAGAhead when he gets the nomination, obviously.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 27, 2022, 07:30:33 am
I don't think that the decline of Trumpism will be any more predictable than its ascent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 30, 2022, 01:00:46 pm
He had a bank account in China. Wow.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on December 30, 2022, 04:34:37 pm
If DOnald Trump is not prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, it's going to pave the way for a younger, more prepared autocratic leader (DeSantis?) to orchestrate a successful coup. There is a reason Trump has "Mein Kampt" on his bedside table.

If America does not act now, we will see the 4th Reich as our neighbours by the end of the decade.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 02, 2023, 06:31:14 pm
He had a bank account in China. Wow.
Yes, one that he had claimed he shut down.

Which brings up the question... what was it used for?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 02, 2023, 07:00:50 pm
So we have had access to Trump's taxes for a few days now.

So far, nothing earth-shattering. We already knew he was a tax cheat (thanks to the recent conviction of the Trump organization for tax fraud). We already knew he is a failed businessman (based on his multiple bankruptcies). And his taxes seem to re-enforce those notions.

Lets take a look at what we have learned:

- A mandatory audit (that all presidential tax returns are subject to) was not initially done, until the returns were actually requested by the committee (and even then they didn't give the required resources to do a proper audit.)

- He had a bank account in China (as another poster pointed out). Yet he had claimed that he had closed that account down before he was elected. Which brings up the question... what was it used for? Did he have some sort of business there that might have influenced his actions?

- Trump paid very little in taxes for the 6 years. Some years had zero taxes, others had $750. About the only 'successful' year that he had was when he sold one of the properties he inherited from his father. This tells us 2 things:

    * It points to him being a failed businessman
    * It reminds us that he lied in the 2020 election, when he claimed he paid "millions" in taxes

- Very limited charitable donations (and they haven't found evidence of him donating his salary to charity for at least some of the time, like he claimed he was doing)

- He actually paid more in taxes to several foreign countries than he did to the United States

- Trump may have been abusing something called Schedule C. (This involves him making "sole proprietor reports" for businesses with no revenue but high expenses, allowing him to claim a loss to offset his taxes. Trump had been found guilty of tax fraud back in the 1980s for doing the same thing.)

- Other potential areas of tax fraud include claiming personal expenses as business expenses and giving non-repaid 'loans' to his children in order to avoid gift taxes

See:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-tax-returns-2020-debate-video-b2253769.html (Trump's lie of paying millions in taxes)
https://www.salon.com/2022/12/28/brazen-cheating-revealed_partner/ (A description of possible tax fraud)
https://news.yahoo.com/foreign-accounts-melania-modelling-no-072853278.html (information about his non-existent charitable deductions, as well as foreign business dealings)


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on January 02, 2023, 07:29:43 pm
You'd think. But that seems low even for you guys. Is there a depth at which you would say "I cannot worship this man any longer"? You're still going to be full MAGAhead when he gets the nomination, obviously.

You are talking about the same people who are making jokes about an 82 year old man being bludgeoned by a hammer.  There has never been such a clear cut example of good (democrats) vs evil (republicans), since World War II, when we were fighting against the Third Reich.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on January 15, 2023, 07:54:22 am
Trump swears he didn't r ape E. Jean Carroll but also swears that she "enjoyed" it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on January 15, 2023, 05:18:04 pm
I read Mary Trump's book when it came out.  It did not portray Trump in a positive light.  I would not be surprised if Trump not only sexually assaulted the victim, but also had sexual relations with underage girls, as he was a frequent guest at Epstein Island.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on January 15, 2023, 11:30:25 pm
Trump swears he didn't r ape E. Jean Carroll but also swears that she "enjoyed" it.

According to Mary Trump, it was well known that in his bachelor years in NYC (1960-70s), Trump would pick up attractive women, and expect sex from them.  When that did not happen, he would literally kick them to the curb.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 19, 2023, 09:38:15 am
Trump swears he didn't r ape E. Jean Carroll but also swears that she "enjoyed" it.
He also claims she "wasn't his type", but apparently he couldn't tell the difference between her and his ex-wife. So much for that defense.

From: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/19/trump-e-jean-carroll-wife-deposition
Donald Trump mistook E Jean Carroll, the writer who accuses him of ****, for his ex-wife Marla Maples during a deposition in the case last year...“That’s Marla, yeah,” Trump said, when shown a photograph.

And can you imagine if Biden had made the same sort of mistake? The MAGAchud would be having orgasms as they complained about Biden becoming so senile he couldn't identify someone he was married to for years. Yet they ignore it when Trump does it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on January 24, 2023, 02:44:07 pm
I am very much looking forward to Trump getting the GOP nomination, shady whole-heartedly endorsing him, and then watching him lose in an even more humiliating fashion than 2020.

https://twitter.com/EmersonPolling/status/1617840831473373185?t=mFfPInJsUo83H0KNLYlDMw&s=19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on January 24, 2023, 04:09:38 pm
Now the leader of the Trump-Russia investigation gets charged with being a Russian agent. Hilarious.  😆

https://twitter.com/TimothyDSnyder/status/1618309363084718080?s=20&t=SySiYi__XRrpVhRC00t3SA
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on January 27, 2023, 02:33:51 pm
MAGA talking points stressed imaginary allegations that Biden was "China's b-itch" because Trump has a secret bank account there and was offering favours to dictators in exchange for their support in 2020.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-bolton-book/trump-asked-china-to-help-him-win-in-2020-offered-favors-to-dictators-bolton-says-idUSKBN23O3B7
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 27, 2023, 06:14:05 pm
MAGA talking points stressed imaginary allegations that Biden was "China's b-itch" because Trump has a secret bank account there and was offering favours to dictators in exchange for their support in 2020.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-bolton-book/trump-asked-china-to-help-him-win-in-2020-offered-favors-to-dictators-bolton-says-idUSKBN23O3B7
Of course that is rather old news, and not the only thing link between the Trump klan and Russia. (Remember Ivanka Trump getting favorable treatment by the Chinese government over trademarks.

But there is news. Remember the Durham investigation? The one that was supposed to uncover all sorts of questionable activity regarding the Russia investigation? Well it actually found evidence of a real crime!!!!

But not in the way that you were thinking...

From: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-john-durham-criminal-probe-financial-dealings-report-2023-1
...special counsel John Durham pressed Italian and British officials about any tips they could have shared that may have set off the Russian collusion investigation....Italian officials responded by telling Durham's team about allegations of financial crimes that were serious enough that the DOJ opened a criminal investigation....Barr made the call to empower Durham to follow up on the Italian's tip. Durham never filed any charges. It is unclear what, if anything, came of the investigation.

So, did Trump actually do anything illegal here? Well, the fact that things were controlled by Barr/Durham means that we can never know for sure. (Given the way Barr white-washed and lied about the Mueller report, we certainly can't trust that any other investigations were properly handled.)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 01, 2023, 07:17:31 am
Trump says he didn't bang Stormy Daniels and then pay her off, but too much has time has passed since he did it so they can't charge him for it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on February 01, 2023, 07:43:44 am
Trump says he didn't bang Stormy Daniels and then pay her off, but too much has time has passed since he did it so they can't charge him for it.

In an ideal world, Trump and some of his family would be charged with treason.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 01, 2023, 08:55:52 am
Who cares who somebody sleeps with?  When did libtards become such prudes?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 01, 2023, 09:38:48 am
Trump says he didn't bang Stormy Daniels and then pay her off, but too much has time has passed since he did it so they can't charge him for it.
There are 2 avenues of prosecution of Trump over this matter:

- Campaign finance violations. Payments to Stormy Daniels to suppress negative stories should have been considered a political donation, but they were not declared as such. (This is one of the things that Cohen went to jail for.)

- Business fraud. Payments to Daniels would have been considered a personal expense, but Stubby McBonespurs may have paid from the Trump Organization (and hidden the nature of the payments).

I believe the campaign finance violations would be federal in nature. Currently, the Manhattan DA is investigating the business fraud angle (which might violate both state and federal laws, but the Manhattan DA would likely deal with state laws.)

Now obviously the issue of the statute of limitations comes into play here. However, the fact that they are bothering with the issue at all suggests that they have not yet reached the deadline for that. (Otherwise they wouldn't have bothered with the grand jury at all.)

Complicating the issue is that when Trump was president, the DoJ had a policy of not indicting a sitting president. The problem is, nobody knows how that affects the statute of limitations, since its never been tested in court. (Is the statute of limitations suspended for the 4 years Trump was president because he wouldn't be charged? Or did the clock continue running?)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on February 01, 2023, 09:41:10 am
In an ideal world, Trump and some of his family would be charged with treason.

In an ideal world Trump would have his head kicked in behind a dirty old skip down at the docks, and be left for dead, only to have the rats and the crows finish him off.

But you can't always get what you want.

Treason would be okay too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 01, 2023, 09:55:33 am
In an ideal world Trump would have his head kicked in behind a dirty old skip down at the docks, and be left for dead, only to have the rats and the crows finish him off.

But you can't always get what you want.

Treason would be okay too.
Yes, everyone I don’t like should die over treason.  How long have you been a fascist?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 01, 2023, 09:55:46 am
In an ideal world Trump would have his head kicked in behind a dirty old skip down at the docks, and be left for dead, only to have the rats and the crows finish him off.
What do you have against Rats and Crows? Why do you think they should suffer by having to touch Trump's carcass?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on February 01, 2023, 10:23:51 am
Yes, everyone I don’t like should die over treason.  How long have you been a fascist?

It must be so embarrassing for you to still, after all this time, have to support one of the crappest human beings alive.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 01, 2023, 10:33:26 am
It must be so embarrassing for you to still, after all this time, have to support one of the crappest human beings alive.
I don’t support him, but it doesn’t mean I’m unhinged and want him killed for treason.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on February 01, 2023, 10:36:49 am
I don’t support him, but it doesn’t mean I’m unhinged and want him killed for treason.

Treason, pfft.

There are so many people who don't deserve it die every day, why not just have one die who does?

Horribly would be okay too.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 01, 2023, 10:59:27 am
Treason, pfft.

There are so many people who don't deserve it die every day, why not just have one die who does?

Horribly would be okay too.
You really need to stop letting your emotions dictate how you think things should go.  Approach it from a logical point of view, considering the precedent thar you’d be setting.  Burning the constitution and bill of rights just because you hate someone is terrible policy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on February 01, 2023, 11:07:34 am
You really need to stop letting your emotions dictate how you think things should go.  Approach it from a logical point of view, considering the precedent thar you’d be setting.  Burning the constitution and bill of rights just because you hate someone is terrible policy.

I don't hate Trump.  I just have the utmost contempt for him.

And I wasn't advocating it be done legally.  We can't have such things happening to decent people.

I was just saying it would be nice if someone took it upon themselves to deliver that service, is all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 01, 2023, 11:20:06 am
I don't hate Trump.  I just have the utmost contempt for him.

And I wasn't advocating it be done legally.  We can't have such things happening to decent people.

I was just saying it would be nice if someone took it upon themselves to deliver that service, is all.
Fair enough.  That’s how I feel about Trudeau.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on February 01, 2023, 11:21:25 am
Fair enough.  That’s how I feel about Trudeau.

There you go!  It's not that weird after all.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on February 01, 2023, 11:47:22 am
Yes, everyone I don’t like should die over treason.  How long have you been a fascist?

I don’t support him, but it doesn’t mean I’m unhinged and want him killed for treason.

You really need to stop letting your emotions dictate how you think things should go.  Approach it from a logical point of view, considering the precedent thar you’d be setting.  Burning the constitution and bill of rights just because you hate someone is terrible policy.

Fair enough.  That’s how I feel about Trudeau.


LOL, incredible.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on February 08, 2023, 09:42:35 am
Very very funny to see Republicans who have spent the past year plus calling anyone who disagrees with them a groomer suddenly fill their diapers when Trump does it to Ron DeSicko. Reaping, sowing etc.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 08, 2023, 12:13:42 pm
Trump declares DeSantis disqualified from running in 2024.  He wishes! 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 08, 2023, 12:16:48 pm
Groomers gotta groom, I guess. 😆
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on February 08, 2023, 12:57:59 pm
Trump declares DeSantis disqualified from running in 2024.  He wishes! 😂

Have you got a cite for that?  I can only find "Pillow Guy" saying it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on February 08, 2023, 01:08:51 pm
Bold strategy from DeSicko:

Quote
The governor was asked about all of this earlier today, and he told reporters, “I spend my time obsessing over the genitals of underage kids and thinking of new ways to ban books. That’s how I spend my time. I don’t spend my time trying to smear other Republicans.”
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 08, 2023, 01:39:15 pm
Have you got a cite for that?  I can only find "Pillow Guy" saying it.
You’re right.  It’s his allies that called DeSantis disqualified.  My mistake.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 14, 2023, 11:39:44 am
Well, that was money well spent.

From: https://news.yahoo.com/research-firm-hired-trump-prove-233154305.html
The Berkeley Research Group, hired by the former president’s 2020 campaign, gathered a team of around a dozen people to look into alleged voter fraud...The team reportedly briefed Trump, his former chief of staff Mark Meadows and others on a conference call held in the last days of 2020 — before Trump held a rally urging his supporters to march on the Capitol... Trump has claimed that the 2020 presidential election was “rigged”... he made them despite knowing that a team of professional researchers he paid to try and find evidence of fraud came up empty-handed.

(As if multiple failed lawsuits by Trump, and assertions by state level republicans who ran the elections wasn't enough evidence that the fraud claims were untrue.)

You would have figured that the "stable genius" that is Trump would have recognized that spending money to investigate hoaxes was a bad use of money. But we are talking about someone who drove multiple casinos into bankruptcy.

The problem for Trump is that if/when he ever gets indicted over this, it will impact his ability to defend himself. (i.e. he will not be able to claim that he "didn't know" the election was fair, since we have evidence he was told BY HIS OWN PEOPLE that there was no voter fraud)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 14, 2023, 12:04:25 pm
Well, that was money well spent.

From: https://news.yahoo.com/research-firm-hired-trump-prove-233154305.html
The Berkeley Research Group, hired by the former president’s 2020 campaign, gathered a team of around a dozen people to look into alleged voter fraud...The team reportedly briefed Trump, his former chief of staff Mark Meadows and others on a conference call held in the last days of 2020 — before Trump held a rally urging his supporters to march on the Capitol... Trump has claimed that the 2020 presidential election was “rigged”... he made them despite knowing that a team of professional researchers he paid to try and find evidence of fraud came up empty-handed.


(As if multiple failed lawsuits by Trump, and assertions by state level republicans who ran the elections wasn't enough evidence that the fraud claims were untrue.)

You would have figured that the "stable genius" that is Trump would have recognized that spending money to investigate hoaxes was a bad use of money. But we are talking about someone who drove multiple casinos into bankruptcy.

The problem for Trump is that if/when he ever gets indicted over this, it will impact his ability to defend himself. (i.e. he will not be able to claim that he "didn't know" the election was fair, since we have evidence he was told BY HIS OWN PEOPLE that there was no voter fraud)

The walls are closing in! 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on February 14, 2023, 12:18:28 pm
"Ron Desanctimonious" was obviously not hitting, glad to see the big guy is working on his fastball mechanics:

Quote
Since November, despite the criticism he faced at the time, Mr. Trump has periodically hit out at his potential rival, albeit to a relatively small audience. He posted his most recent innuendo about the governor on Truth Social, where he has just under five million followers. And he has insulted Mr. DeSantis in casual conversations, describing him as “Meatball Ron,” an apparent dig at his appearance, or “Shutdown Ron,” a reference to restrictions the governor put in place at the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic.

link (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/12/us/politics/desantis-trump-2024-president.html)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 20, 2023, 10:31:37 am
This is one of the best summations of Trump, and why he was popular.

The “honest liar”.

https://youtu.be/RD7lNeef18M
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on February 20, 2023, 11:23:54 am
And then he changed the tax code to benefit the super-wealthy even more. He's right  You did get played for a gullible fool.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 01, 2023, 10:41:21 am
Four new polls show former President Trump has received a boost in Republican support — with one survey showing him hitting 50% support in a crowded GOP field. (https://www.axios.com/2023/03/01/trump-polling-february)

Quote
A new Emerson poll found Trump with a 30-point lead (55%-25%) against Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis — up from a 26-point lead (55%-29%) over DeSantis in Emerson's January survey.

A new Yahoo News/YouGov poll has Trump opening up an 8-point lead on DeSantis (47%-39%), after DeSantis led the former president by 4 in the pollster's previous survey at the beginning of February.

The GOP polling firm Echelon Insights found Trump leading DeSantis by 15 points (46%-31%) on a national ballot test. Last month, the pollster found Trump only leading DeSantis by 2 points (36%-34%).

Fox News' first presidential primary poll, testing the GOP presidential ballot, found Trump leading DeSantis by 15 points (43%-28%).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 01, 2023, 10:57:25 am
OK so Biden again then...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 01, 2023, 11:04:52 am
OK so Biden again then...
Well, in my opinion, ANY democrat is better than ANY republican. (At least until the Republicans have spent some time in the wilderness and have decided that turning over the party to a bunch of corrupt nutcases is perhaps not the best way to go.)

Would be nice if the Democrats managed to find a good, young leader who could take over the reigns in 2024 and put together a couple of successful runs at the presidency. But any leadership campaign is a risk, and you could always end up with a candidate whos reputation is damaged in the primaries so they become unelectable.

Biden is relatively "safe". Yes, he's old. But he us unlikely to have any real skeletons in his closet that haven't been revealed by now, and there wouldn't be a leadership battle to damage his reputation more. And we know he can beat Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 01, 2023, 12:17:05 pm
Well, in my opinion, ANY democrat is better than ANY republican. (At least until the Republicans have spent some time in the wilderness and have decided that turning over the party to a bunch of corrupt nutcases is perhaps not the best way to go.)

Would be nice if the Democrats managed to find a good, young leader who could take over the reigns in 2024 and put together a couple of successful runs at the presidency. But any leadership campaign is a risk, and you could always end up with a candidate whos reputation is damaged in the primaries so they become unelectable.

Biden is relatively "safe". Yes, he's old. But he us unlikely to have any real skeletons in his closet that haven't been revealed by now, and there wouldn't be a leadership battle to damage his reputation more. And we know he can beat Trump.

JB Pritzker.

1) He's filthy rich.
2) He's the governor of a large midwestern state.
3) He's a big boy and voters love absolute units.
4) He has a presidential voice and bearing unlike a shrill dork like Meatball Ron.

Gretchen Whitmer would be another good choice IMO.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on March 01, 2023, 04:45:33 pm
And then he changed the tax code to benefit the super-wealthy even more. He's right  You did get played for a gullible fool.

Trump was also smart enough to pass a bill that increased taxes for the middle class, but had the bill delayed from being put into practice until 2024, when he was on the way out. So now when people notice their taxes going up, they will essentially blame Biden for it. 

Unless of course, you are in the richest 5% tax bracket (when you see your taxes cut).  The Working and Middle class are essentially subsidising the rich in America.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 01, 2023, 04:48:52 pm
Trump was also smart enough to pass a bill that increased taxes for the middle class, but had the bill delayed from being put into practice until 2024, when he was on the way out. So now when people notice their taxes going up, they will essentially blame Biden for it. 

Unless of course, you are in the richest 5% tax bracket (when you see your taxes cut).  The Working and Middle class are essentially subsidising the rich in America.
Complete nonsense.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on March 01, 2023, 04:52:48 pm
Four new polls show former President Trump has received a boost in Republican support — with one survey showing him hitting 50% support in a crowded GOP field. (https://www.axios.com/2023/03/01/trump-polling-february)

"Trump wins a whopping 72% support among Republicans with a high school degree or less."

Trump will always be the champion of uneducated rural people.  They are the easiest to mislead.

This parallels the support for Putin in Russia. Coincidentally, the people dying in east Ukraine happen to be uneducated rural people.  The people in Moscow and St.Petersburg have been relatively unaffected.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 08, 2023, 08:52:15 am
Quote
“We are very, very close to being able to ignore Trump most nights. I truly can’t wait. … I hate him passionately.”

“We’re all pretending we’ve got a lot to show for it, because admitting what a disaster it’s been is too tough to digest. But come on. There really isn’t an upside to Trump.”

"Trump is a demonic force...what Trump's good at is destroying things. He's the undisputed world champion at that."

- Tucker Carlson (off the record)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on March 08, 2023, 10:10:48 am
Complete nonsense.

Actually it isn’t. The corporate cuts are permanent but the individual cuts expire in 2025.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 08, 2023, 11:08:43 am
"Trump wins a whopping 72% support among Republicans with a high school degree or less."

Trump will always be the champion of uneducated rural people.  They are the easiest to mislead.

This parallels the support for Putin in Russia. Coincidentally, the people dying in east Ukraine happen to be uneducated rural people.  The people in Moscow and St.Petersburg have been relatively unaffected.

I've said it a million times: Trump's base isn't hillbillies in the sticks, it's well-off suburbanites.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 09, 2023, 07:19:11 pm
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-manhattan-prosecutors-signal-criminal-charges-likely-for-trump/

Criminal charges for our boy.... with the Stormy payoff...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on March 09, 2023, 08:44:13 pm
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-manhattan-prosecutors-signal-criminal-charges-likely-for-trump/

Criminal charges for our boy.... with the Stormy payoff...

Love to see him locked up, but what actually is the crime here?  Of all the things Trump has done wrong, this is the only one I couldn't figure out.  Where's the actual crime?  He had sex with someone, and he paid them not to bang on about it?  Am I missing something?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 09, 2023, 09:45:10 pm
Love to see him locked up, but what actually is the crime here?  Of all the things Trump has done wrong, this is the only one I couldn't figure out.  Where's the actual crime?  He had sex with someone, and he paid them not to bang on about it?  Am I missing something?
Well for one, it is a campaign finance violation. Political donations need to be tracked. If Trump spent money to keep Stormy Daniels from talking, then that would benefit his campaign, and the hush money would be considered a campaign donation (which in this case wasn't declared).

The prosecutors may also be looking into how Trump actually paid her. He may not have paid the hush money out of his own pocket, but from the Trump organization. Depending on how the payment was structured within the organization, it might have been done illegally (since there are rules about how businesses can move money around. I don't think "payment to a **** star I banged" would be considered a legitimate business expense.)

Overall, it should be a pretty easy case to make. After all, this was one of the things that his former lawyer Cohen was sent to jail for (not to mention that they have Trump's signature on a cheque.)  Although I am surprised that of all the legal problems Trump is facing, this case seems closest to indictment, since things like the investigation into theft of classified documents or the Georgia election case seemed to be further along.

And of all the things that Trump has done, this seems like a pretty small thing to prosecute him over. But still... he broke the law. If Cohen deserved jail for it, then Trump does too. And hopefully it will open a floodgate of charges from other jurisdictions all trying to get a piece of Trump. And frankly, after all the setbacks/disappointments we've had regarding Trump's criminal history, I'd be happy to see him brought to court for, well, ANYTHING at this point.
- Bragg went against his prosecutors in deciding not to pursue criminal fraud charges
- Republicans allowed Trump a free pass over his attempts to blackmail Ukraine and over his support of terrorism in 2 impeachments
- Muller failed to recognize the lack of integrity of the GOP over his investigation into Russian election interference (he documented various crimes Trump could have been charged with, but he assumed republicans would do the right thing. They didn't, and as a result Trump wasn't charged over any of it.)
- His tax fraud, Trump University and Trump Foundation crimes were all treated as civil cases, so no jail time possible
- His delay tactics managed to see him avoid any sort of repercussions over emoluments over his washington DC hotel.
- The Georgia election case could see indictments, but the process there seems to be sloooow (with one grand jury hearing evidence but only making recommendations that another grand jury will have to consider)
- Garland seemed to be overly-cautious in dealing with Trump's document theft. Fortunately he brought in Jack Smith, who seems to be a lot more...aggressive. Unfortunately it seems like they may try to merge the document case with an election interference case (which might slow things down since they will have to wait until both cases are ready for prosecution.)





Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on March 09, 2023, 09:59:25 pm
Well for one, it is a campaign finance violation. Political donations need to be tracked. If Trump spent money to keep Stormy Daniels from talking, then that would benefit his campaign, and the hush money would be considered a campaign donation (which in this case wasn't declared).

The prosecutors may also be looking into how Trump actually paid her. He may not have paid the hush money out of his own pocket, but from the Trump organization. Depending on how the payment was structured within the organization, it might have been done illegally (since there are rules about how businesses can move money around. I don't think "payment to a **** star I banged" would be considered a legitimate business expense.)

Overall, it should be a pretty easy case to make. After all, this was one of the things that his former lawyer Cohen was sent to jail for (not to mention that they have Trump's signature on a cheque.)  Although I am surprised that of all the legal problems Trump is facing, this case seems closest to indictment, since things like the investigation into theft of classified documents or the Georgia election case seemed to be further along.

And of all the things that Trump has done, this seems like a pretty small thing to prosecute him over. But still... he broke the law. If Cohen deserved jail for it, then Trump does too. And hopefully it will open a floodgate of charges from other jurisdictions all trying to get a piece of Trump. And frankly, after all the setbacks/disappointments we've had regarding Trump's criminal history, I'd be happy to see him brought to court for, well, ANYTHING at this point.
- Bragg went against his prosecutors in deciding not to pursue criminal fraud charges
- Republicans allowed Trump a free pass over his attempts to blackmail Ukraine and over his support of terrorism in 2 impeachments
- Muller failed to recognize the lack of integrity of the GOP over his investigation into Russian election interference (he documented various crimes Trump could have been charged with, but he assumed republicans would do the right thing. They didn't, and as a result Trump wasn't charged over any of it.)
- His tax fraud, Trump University and Trump Foundation crimes were all treated as civil cases, so no jail time possible
- His delay tactics managed to see him avoid any sort of repercussions over emoluments over his washington DC hotel.
- The Georgia election case could see indictments, but the process there seems to be sloooow (with one grand jury hearing evidence but only making recommendations that another grand jury will have to consider)
- Garland seemed to be overly-cautious in dealing with Trump's document theft. Fortunately he brought in Jack Smith, who seems to be a lot more...aggressive. Unfortunately it seems like they may try to merge the document case with an election interference case (which might slow things down since they will have to wait until both cases are ready for prosecution.)

Thanks, I appreciate the detailed response.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 09, 2023, 10:38:37 pm
Love to see him locked up, but what actually is the crime here?  Of all the things Trump has done wrong, this is the only one I couldn't figure out.  Where's the actual crime?  He had sex with someone, and he paid them not to bang on about it?  Am I missing something?
You’re not missing anything.  Some of the Trump haters, are filled with so much hate, and derangement that they’re ok with criminalizing a consensual relationship between two adults.  It’s really quite sad.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 09, 2023, 10:42:57 pm
You’re not missing anything.  Some of the Trump haters, are filled with so much hate, and derangement that they’re ok with criminalizing a consensual relationship between two adults.  It’s really quite sad.
You mean like Tucker Carlson?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on March 09, 2023, 11:17:19 pm
I've said it a million times: Trump's base isn't hillbillies in the sticks, it's well-off suburbanites.

Trump's base is in rural America.  Trump obviously has support in the outlying suburbs too, but just look at the US electoral map by county. Outside the Northeast, the West Coast, and an area covering parts of Arizona and New Mexico, Trump won nearly every rural county.  However, most large US cities are blue.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/upshot/2020-election-map.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 09, 2023, 11:47:11 pm
Trump's base is in rural America.  Trump obviously has support in the outlying suburbs too, but just look at the US electoral map by county. Outside the Northeast, the West Coast, and an area covering parts of Arizona and New Mexico, Trump won nearly every rural county.  However, most large US cities are blue.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/upshot/2020-election-map.html

Counties don’t vote, people do.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 15, 2023, 07:20:48 pm
Truth Social reportedly being kept afloat with laundered money from Russia. What a surprise!

https://twitter.com/petestrzok/status/1635972772349329408?t=rzCD1FkCvLA7XY_doB2DrQ&s=19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 15, 2023, 07:24:13 pm
Truth Social reportedly being kept afloat with laundered money from Russia. What a surprise!

https://twitter.com/petestrzok/status/1635972772349329408?t=rzCD1FkCvLA7XY_doB2DrQ&s=19
😂😂😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 16, 2023, 10:11:50 am
Truth Social reportedly being kept afloat with laundered money from Russia. What a surprise!

https://twitter.com/petestrzok/status/1635972772349329408?t=rzCD1FkCvLA7XY_doB2DrQ&s=19
I am shocked! Shocked I tell you.

Who ever thought an individual who has praised Putin's invasion of the Ukraine as "smart", who gave classified information to a Russian diplomat, and who's presidential campaign gave private polling data to Russian operatives would have actually involved themselves with shady Russian payments?

And its not like the Trump Klan has had any sort of foreign entanglements before. Well, except for the Saudis using Trump's golf courses for their tournaments. And the Saudis also letting Jared Kushner handle billions of dollars of their investments. And China expidicting Ivanka's trademark requests.

But no, please explain how this is somehow worse than not being able to see Hunter Biden's dick pics.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 16, 2023, 02:39:42 pm
“It confirms my biases so it must be true!!!!” 😂😂😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 16, 2023, 02:47:18 pm
“It confirms my biases so it must be true!!!!” 😂😂😂
"I don't want it to be true so I will say it isn't despite all evidence to the contrary."  🤣🤣🤣
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 16, 2023, 03:16:44 pm
"I don't want it to be true so I will say it isn't despite all evidence to the contrary."  🤣🤣🤣
There’s no “evidence”.  It’s all conjecture.  But I understand that it confirms your biases, so you run with.  You’d think you would have learned by now, after all of the other fake Trump stories you’ve chased.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 17, 2023, 09:54:29 am
"I don't want it to be true so I will say it isn't despite all evidence to the contrary."  🤣🤣🤣
A little bit more about the story behind it (and the evidence)...

From: https://www.salon.com/2023/03/15/media-probed-for-possible-linked-money-laundering-over-loan-approved-by-don-jr-report/
Towards the end of the year, prosecutors began looking at two loans totaling $8 million sent to Trump Media through the Caribbean from two obscure entities that appear to be "controlled in part by the relation of an ally of Russian president Vladimir Putin"..."if you trace the beneficiaries back you get to the nephew of a Putin ally who was the first deputy justice minister in Russia and previously served in Putin's executive office."...former Trump Media CFO Philip Juhan weighed returning the money but it was never sent back, in part because losing $8 million of about $12 million the company had in its account would have strained its finances.

If your very own executives are saying "this is suspicious... maybe we should send it back" then that should raise all sorts of red flags.

And even if it wasn't "money laundering" per se, you figure that Trump (after it was found that he benefitted from Russian support in the 2016 election) would have wanted to avoid looking even more guilty than he does.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 17, 2023, 10:58:08 am
A little bit more about the story behind it (and the evidence)...

From: https://www.salon.com/2023/03/15/media-probed-for-possible-linked-money-laundering-over-loan-approved-by-don-jr-report/
Towards the end of the year, prosecutors began looking at two loans totaling $8 million sent to Trump Media through the Caribbean from two obscure entities that appear to be "controlled in part by the relation of an ally of Russian president Vladimir Putin"..."if you trace the beneficiaries back you get to the nephew of a Putin ally who was the first deputy justice minister in Russia and previously served in Putin's executive office."...former Trump Media CFO Philip Juhan weighed returning the money but it was never sent back, in part because losing $8 million of about $12 million the company had in its account would have strained its finances.

If your very own executives are saying "this is suspicious... maybe we should send it back" then that should raise all sorts of red flags.

And even if it wasn't "money laundering" per se, you figure that Trump (after it was found that he benefitted from Russian support in the 2016 election) would have wanted to avoid looking even more guilty than he does.
Got it, so nothing that’s actually against the law.  Stop trying to invent crimes.  You remind me of Stalin, “show me the man and I’ll show you the crime”.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 17, 2023, 11:22:58 am
Got it, so nothing that’s actually against the law.  Stop trying to invent crimes. You remind me of Stalin, “show me the man and I’ll show you the crime”.

This is exactly like how you keep trying to draw Joe Biden into Hunter's sketchy business dealings even though there's no evidence the former was involved.In other words: shut da f*ck up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 18, 2023, 08:42:36 am
The walls are closing in. 🤣

https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1637054382154891264?t=MdbhNflFMpMKhv-I47dYBA&s=19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 18, 2023, 09:19:26 am
Yeah he says he's getting arrested.

Pretty clear he'll be in litigation until he's dead at this point.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 18, 2023, 09:40:49 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrdUtgEaEAAmLFN?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 18, 2023, 09:46:36 am
The walls are closing in. 🤣

https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1637054382154891264?t=MdbhNflFMpMKhv-I47dYBA&s=19
They are!  I wonder if the rabid authoritarians finally made up a “crime” they can pin on him.  Is this about two consenting adults having a relationship? 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 18, 2023, 11:05:45 am
Paying off a hooker out of campaign funds.

Poor Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 18, 2023, 02:38:59 pm
Paying off a hooker out of campaign funds.

Poor Trump.
I thought it was a gift to keep an affair silent?  How was it out of campaign funds when it happened king before he decided to run for office?  Do you think the consensual relationship between two adults is something the government should be getting to now?  Is that how much Trump has broken the Liberal brain?  Is there a principle or institution that the left isn’t willing to burn to the ground in order to achiever their obsession with imprisoning Trump?  I get it though, he’s a complete d bag.  He says terrible things.  He operates with no regard for people’s feelings and/or societal norms.  But you’re adults, get over it already.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on March 18, 2023, 08:41:31 pm
They are!  I wonder if the rabid authoritarians finally made up a “crime” they can pin on him.  Is this about two consenting adults having a relationship? 😂

You should definitely send him some money.  Sod the kids education fund, Trump's need is greater!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 19, 2023, 06:37:46 am
I thought it was a campaign funding issue ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 19, 2023, 08:52:54 am
I thought it was a gift to keep an affair silent?  How was it out of campaign funds when it happened king before he decided to run for office?   
Just like the epidemiologists should have taken your expert advice, I guess the Grand Jury also needs to hear from you. Get out there and explain to them how the law works. What's stopping you?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 19, 2023, 11:51:35 am
I thought it was a gift to keep an affair silent?  How was it out of campaign funds when it happened king before he decided to run for office?  Do you think the consensual relationship between two adults is something the government should be getting to now?  Is that how much Trump has broken the Liberal brain?  Is there a principle or institution that the left isn’t willing to burn to the ground in order to achiever their obsession with imprisoning Trump?  I get it though, he’s a complete d bag.  He says terrible things.  He operates with no regard for people’s feelings and/or societal norms.  But you’re adults, get over it already.

They gave her hush money in 2016.  The Trump lawyer who did it was sentenced to 3 years in prison I believe, I think he had Trump repay him with campaign money or something
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 19, 2023, 12:58:51 pm
In Shitbag world any investigation into Trump is a baseless political witch-hunt but the investigation into Hunter’s laptop is irrefutable evidence of Joe Biden’s corruption.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 19, 2023, 01:10:38 pm
Paying off a hooker out of campaign funds.
I thought it was a campaign funding issue ?
That's not exactly what happened.

I explained Trump's potential crimes back in post 8174. I'll go into a little more detail here.

(Note however that at this point we won't know what he is getting charged with, or what evidence they have, until the actual indictment is made public and Trump is actually in court. These seem to be the most logical suggestions.)

There are a couple of areas where Trump might be in legal jeopardy...

First of all, there is a potential campaign funding issue, but not in the way you suggest (with him misusing election funds).

If it was revealed during Trump's campaign that he had an affair, it had the potential to harm his election chances.  Thus, the payment to Stormy Daniels to keep her from talking would have improved his chances of winning in 2016 and thus could have been considered a campaign contribution.

All large campaign donations need to be tracked, even if it is a politician "donating" to his own campaign. (Why? likely because they want to limit the ability of donors to "buy" politicians.) So Trump's  $100k+ payment should have been registered. But it was not.

This is not some unique, never before seen crime. In fact, this was one of the reasons Trump's previous lawyer Cohen went to jail.

The second issue is that the payment was (probably) made through the Trump organization (rather than a payment from Trump's personal accounts). Now, Trump may be the main owner of the Trump organization, but even the sole owner of a company cannot use the company as their personal piggy bank, making it pay for personal expenses. (Why not? Well, there are tax implications for one.) Trump supposedly had the money paid to Stormy Daniels listed as "legal expenses" in the Trump Organization's books. Since Stormy Daniels is not a lawyer, and she was not working for the Trump organization, then the Trump organization paying her off under the guise of "legal expenses" was fraudulent.

And just like the issue of campaign finance, this is not some new invention, some never-before-seen prosecution.

Trump COULD have paid off Stormy Daniels in a way that was 100% legal... he could have 1) taken money out of the Trump organization (perhaps as a salary increase or bonus, with whatever income tax implications are involved) to pay her from his own bank account rather than the Trump organization, and 2) when he paid her off, properly listed it as a campaign contribution. But Trump did not do any of that. And thus the reason why he might end up facing real, criminal charges.

Now, given all the crimes he has committed, this seems like pretty small potatoes. (I would much rather see him jailed for document theft and bank/tax fraud.) But still, he broke the law. Others have been jailed for the same sorts of crimes. And saying "Trump should be given different treatment because he's more famous, or he committed bigger crimes so we should ignore the small stuff" flies in the fact that "everyone is equal under the law".

There may be other laws that were broken too... There may be legal restrictions on companies financing and coordinating with election campaigns. There may also be some perjury or tax fraud charges thrown in there as well (although as I said before, we will have to wait and see whatever charges are included in the indictment.) And given Trump, it would not surprise me if they added things like Witness Tampering (based on his call to protest over his indictment).


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 19, 2023, 01:24:45 pm
They gave her hush money in 2016.  The Trump lawyer who did it was sentenced to 3 years in prison I believe, I think he had Trump repay him with campaign money or something
Yup. The payment to Stormy Daniels was negotiated in October 2016, almost 3 months AFTER Trump had secured the republican nomination.

So much for the idiot who claimed "it all happened before Trump ran for office". I guess we can add "understanding the calendar" as something shady is a failure at.
Quote
The Trump lawyer who did it was sentenced to 3 years in prison I believe,
Technically he was sentenced for several things... campaign finance was one, but he was also sentenced for bank and tax fraud.
Quote
I think he had Trump repay him with campaign money or something
Actually the Trump organization, which makes it even worse for Trump, since it goes from a case of "illegal campaign contribution" to "business fraud".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on March 19, 2023, 10:02:02 pm
I really hope Trump goes to prison. If Trump is not charged with the crimes he committed during his Presidency, the door is open to future candidates thinking they can engage in all sorts of criminal behaviour, without repercussions (I'm looking at you, DeSantis).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 20, 2023, 01:25:31 am
I really hope Trump goes to prison. If Trump is not charged with the crimes he committed during his Presidency, the door is open to future candidates thinking they can engage in all sorts of criminal behaviour, without repercussions (I'm looking at you, DeSantis).

This has been the case since forever.  How long did Nixon go to prison?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 20, 2023, 03:12:22 am
Quote
I really hope Trump goes to prison. If Trump is not charged with the crimes he committed during his Presidency, the door is open to future candidates thinking they can engage in all sorts of criminal behaviour, without repercussions (I'm looking at you, DeSantis).
This has been the case since forever.  How long did Nixon go to prison?
Yes, Nixon avoided prison. A lot of people (myself included) think it was a mistake for Ford to grant him a pardon.

But, there are a couple of differences between the Nixon and Trump cases....

- Trump's crimes and abuses of power are much more extensive and much more serious than Nixon's

- With Nixon, it at least appeared that his supporters understood the gravity of the situation. Republicans in congress were willing to vote with impeachment if it came to that, and republican voters seem to be a bit more... contrite. (I don't necessarily agree that a pardon was necessary to "heal the nation", but it might sort of been plausible.) With Trump, republican politicians are almost universally lining up to support him, and the MAGAchud supporters are largely a group of racist brain-damaged morons. Any attempt to "heal the nation" by granting leniency to Trump will be unsuccessful, and treating Trump like the criminal he is is necessary to send a message.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 21, 2023, 07:11:15 am
Republicans: "Lock up Hillary, Obama, Joe and Hunter Biden, Adam Schiff, Ilan Omar, Gretchen Whitmer, Robert Mueller, AOC, Christine Blasey Ford, and Fauci!"

Also Republicans: "Boo hoo! You're weaponizing the justice system by investigating our actual crimes!"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 21, 2023, 09:17:28 am
Republicans: "Lock up Hillary, Obama, Joe and Hunter Biden, Adam Schiff, Ilan Omar, Gretchen Whitmer, Robert Mueller, AOC, Christine Blasey Ford, and Fauci!"

Also Republicans: "Boo hoo! You're weaponizing the justice system by investigating our actual crimes!"
Hey now that's not fair.

The republicans didn't "Weaponize the Justice system". They also weaponized the IRS.

From: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/11/donald-trump-enemies-irs-audit
Trump “repeatedly” told his second chief of staff, John Kelly, that he wanted several of his enemies investigated by the Internal Revenue Service... Trump was apparently obsessed with siccing the government on former FBI director James Comey and deputy director Andrew McCabe...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on March 23, 2023, 12:21:27 pm
In a lighter vein...

https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/1637927681734987777
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 23, 2023, 03:52:54 pm
I for one am liking shady's new hat.
https://twitter.com/williamlegate/status/1638530367198994432?t=i0k4UpyJy26xUU6twcVZwg&s=19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 23, 2023, 05:52:25 pm
Republicans: "Lock up Hillary, Obama, Joe and Hunter Biden, Adam Schiff, Ilan Omar, Gretchen Whitmer, Robert Mueller, AOC, Christine Blasey Ford, and Fauci!"

Also Republicans: "Boo hoo! You're weaponizing the justice system by investigating our actual crimes!"
Actual crimes?  Like, checks notes, two adults having consensual sex.  You f**king fascists should be ashamed of yourselves.  I also remember the FBI falsifying material in order to get FISA warrants against members of Trumps campaign.  Stop acting like a police state.  Stop the crusade.  Stop burning down every institution just to satisfy your insane obsession of imprisoning Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 23, 2023, 06:25:29 pm
Actual crimes?  Like, checks notes, two adults having consensual sex. You f**king fascists should be ashamed of yourselves.  I also remember the FBI falsifying material in order to get FISA warrants against members of Trumps campaign.  Stop acting like a police state.  Stop the crusade.  Stop burning down every institution just to satisfy your insane obsession of imprisoning Trump.

(https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:480/1*5dkzrblSh_JcJkb-8Q7cVQ.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 23, 2023, 06:56:54 pm
Actual crimes?  Like, checks notes, two adults having consensual sex.  You f**king fascists should be ashamed of yourselves.  I also remember the FBI falsifying material in order to get FISA warrants against members of Trumps campaign.  Stop acting like a police state.  Stop the crusade.  Stop burning down every institution just to satisfy your insane obsession of imprisoning Trump.
Imagine what you would say if you had any information at all about what evidence they have.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 23, 2023, 07:12:35 pm
Imagine what you would say if you had any information at all about what evidence they have.
Like the Steele dossier!!!! 😂😂😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 23, 2023, 07:14:39 pm
Remember when Hillary Clinton was fined for the exact same “crime” New York is now trying to indict Trump over!

Federal campaign watchdog fines DNC, Clinton campaign over dossier spending disclosure
https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/03/30/dnc-clinton-campaign-fine-dossier-spending-disclosure-00021910
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 23, 2023, 07:20:01 pm
You have no idea what crime he's being indicted for or even if he's being indicted at all. It could be witness tampering, obstruction of justice...you have no idea, but you've already declared him to be innocent and the investigation of him to be fascist.

Feels sort of pathetic, doesn't it? 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 23, 2023, 07:39:28 pm
Remember when Hillary Clinton was fined for the exact same “crime” New York is now trying to indict Trump over!

Federal campaign watchdog fines DNC, Clinton campaign over dossier spending disclosure
https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/03/30/dnc-clinton-campaign-fine-dossier-spending-disclosure-00021910

(https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:480/1*5dkzrblSh_JcJkb-8Q7cVQ.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 23, 2023, 07:43:13 pm
You have no idea what crime he's being indicted for or even if he's being indicted at all. It could be witness tampering, obstruction of justice...you have no idea, but you've already declared him to be innocent and the investigation of him to be fascist.

Feels sort of pathetic, doesn't it? 😂
Ever heard of the famous quote, a grand jury would indict a ham sandwich, if that's what you wanted?  You should look into it.  This type of thing is exactly what it’s related to.  I know though, you hate Trump, so it’s ok.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on March 23, 2023, 07:56:11 pm
You have no idea what crime he's being indicted for or even if he's being indicted at all. It could be witness tampering, obstruction of justice...you have no idea, but you've already declared him to be innocent and the investigation of him to be fascist.

Feels sort of pathetic, doesn't it? 😂

There are so many crimes that Trump committed in office that it would take years to sift through them all. No sitting US President has refused to accept election results, muddled with the USPS in order to improve their chances of winning, or incited an insurrection.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 23, 2023, 07:59:45 pm
There are so many crimes that Trump committed in office that it would take years to sift through them all. No sitting US President has refused to accept election results, muddled with the USPS in order to improve their chances of winning, or incited an insurrection.
He’s literally been investigated for 7 years straight.  Surely at least one “crime” can be uncovered.   Btw, all of those things you listed either aren’t crimes, or didn’t happen.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 24, 2023, 09:57:08 am
He's still the funniest to ever do it.

Donald Trump Shares Fake AI-Created Image Of Himself Praying On Truth Social (https://t.co/14SqJ96qhJ)

Quote
Images created with artificial intelligence have flooded social media in recent months, with some people using AI tools like Midjourney to imagine what it would look like for Donald Trump to be arrested. But the former president isn’t opposed to AI-created photos. Trump shared an image of himself on Thursday morning over at Truth Social. And it’s almost certainly fake.

The image, which has been circulating on pro-Trump Twitter since at least Saturday, shows the former president on one knee praying. At first glance it even looks like it could be a real photo. But anyone who looks closer will notice the telltale signs of AI.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 24, 2023, 10:52:58 am
He's still the funniest to ever do it.

(Reference to a picture of Trump 'kneeling' in prayer)
How do we know its not a picture of him kneeling during the national anthem.

A less funny thing: Trump has posted a picture of himself holding a baseball bat standing behind Alvin Bragg. (Picture the scene from The Untouchables where Capone uses a bat on one of his colleagues.)

Which of course might be considered a crime in New York (harrassment in the first degree, menacing in the second degree)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 24, 2023, 12:12:29 pm
There are so many crimes that Trump committed in office that it would take years to sift through them all.
That's not fair! Trump also committed crimes before and after he was president too!!

Lets take a look at Trump's crime spree, shall we?

Trump's main business practices.

These tend to be done through the Trump Organization, of which Trump is the main owner and one in charge.

We know with certainty (thanks to a conviction) that the Trump organization engaged in Tax fraud. But there are other potential crimes that Trump may have engaged in (some of which will be the subject of the Leticia James lawsuit). These include increasing the value of properties when applying for bank loans and lowering them for taxation purposes. (So both tax and bank fraud). There is also the possibility that he has engaged in money laundring, although the evidence for this is less defined as for Bank/tax fraud.

Why Trump wasn't charged:
The U.S. has a poor record of prosecuting white collar crimes.... The crimes are often overlooked, and when they are found, convictions can be difficult because of the complexity. (Madoff ran a scam for years before he was caught.)  Before Trump entered politics, his crimes were probably overlooked because the police and investigators just didn't have the resources or interest to investigate. Then when Trump was elected, Trump was protected by a DoJ policy that stated a sitting president could not be indicted (not to mention the fact that Bill Barr did his best to run interference for him). Now that he's out of office, the investigations can finally proceed.

Now, Bragg had the opportunity to charge Trump crimally for the things Leticia James is going after him for in civil court, but Bragg decided not to proceed (over the objections of some of his staff.) But that doesn't mean the case is dead... they can always reopen the case, as new evidence comes up.

Trump's side hustles

This includes things like the Trump Foundation, Trump university, and the Trump Network (multi-level marketing scam).

Trump ended up having to pay out millions over his Trump University scam. And because of his actions runnig the Trump Foundation, the courts put restrictions on him getting involved in any other charities. Let that sink in: The previous "leader of the free world" , was deemed unfit to run a charity.

As for the Trump network: I am not sure where exactly this sits, but Trump and his spawn were deposed over it last year.

Why Trump wasn't charged.

All these cases were handled as civil cases. (Of course that doesn't mean "trump is innocent")

Trump and the 2016 campaign:

During the 2016 election, Russia aided the Trump campaign. (Even the republicans in the senate admitted as much.) This lead to various actions that would be considered illegal, including:
- Firing of Comey (obstruction of justice 18 U.S.C.  1503)
- Trying to influence Flynn (obstruction of justice and witness tampering 8 U.S.C. §§ 1503, 1505, 1512; 1512)
Mueller found multiple instances where Trump could have been charged, but did not proceed.

He also engaged in campaign finance violations, for his role in payouts to Stormy McDaniiels and McDougal. (The payouts should have been considered campaign contributions but were not recorded. (52 U.S.C.  30109, 30116, 30118, 30104; 18 U.S.C.  2). Add to that the possibility that he might have falsified business records (by falsely claiming the payouts as 'legal expenses', NY penal code 175.10) and engaged in tax fraud (if he tried to claim a deduction for the 'business expenses.) The latest is his attempt to intimidate Bragg (the DA handling the investigation) by posting a picture of Trump standing behind him with a baseball bat, which might be consdidered harassment or menacing (NYPL 240.25/NYLP 120.14)

Why wasn't Trump charged:
As with so many of his other crimes, he was protected by the DoJ policy of not indicting a sitting president. (And the statute of limitations may be running out on some of his crimes, and it is unknown how the courts will handle it if they attempted to indict now.)

Of course there is the investigation into the stormy daniels payout, which may yet see him indicted and convicted. But, it does take time to build a case.

Miscellaneous crimes during his presidency.

While he was president, Trump was likely engaging in the following crimes:

- Violation of the presidential records act: He had a reputation for ripping up/burning/flushing various documents (18 U.S.C. 1361 2071)

- Emoluments, over him renting out hotel rooms at his hotels to foreign interests. (Technically "emoluments" is the term in the constitution, but the closest criminal charge is probably bribery.)

- Sharpiegate, from when he drew on a weather map the path of a hurricane (which is technically a crime, since it would be considered issuing a false weather report)

- Attempts to blackmail Ukraine into launching a bogus investigation into Hunter Biden, which would be considered Misappropriation of federal funds (18 USC 641), obstruciton of justice over his attempt to hide the crime (18 usc 1505, 1512) and a violation of the Hatch act (18 USC 595)

- Failure to declare several 'gifts' that were received by Trump while in office (more on that later)

Why wasn't Trump charged:
Again, the DoJ doesn't indict sitting presidents. And once Trump was out of office, there were likly bigger crimes to deal with.

There was a civil court case over the emoluments issue, but Trump managed to delay things until he was out of office, at which point it became moot.

Crimes related to the 2020 election.

Trump's crimes are all over here... His attempts to get Georgia to overturn their election results might violate both federal law (conspiracy against rights 18 USC 241) and Georgia law (influencing government officials to alter records, criminal solicitation, GA. Code Ann. 16 10-93, 16-4-7). Georgia may also throw in some racketeering charges (Ga. Code Ann. 16-14)

His attempts to distrupt the vote counting on January by sending protestors would be considered Obstruction of an Official proceeding (18 USC 1512), and the fact that he was dealing with others to do so would make it a conspiracy (18 USC 371, 372) And the riot itself would be classsifed as an 'insurection' (18 USC 2383).

Why wasn't trump charged
Much of this occurred after the 2020 election. It takes time to build a case. However, investigations are continuing and Trump might yet be indicted/convicted over it.

Trump's post-presidency crimes

The big crime here is his theft of government documents. His possession of national defense information falls under 18 USC 793. More generally, his removal of ANY government documents would fall under 18 USC 2071. And his failure to return them whn subpoenaed would be obstruction of justice (18 USC 1591).

But that is not the only crime Trump has engaged in post-presidency. He may have engaged in Wire fraud (18 USC 1343), over his collection of money for his "Save America" PAC (which was not used for the stated purpose of dealing with the non-existent election fraud)

Then there is the case of several gifts received by Trump while in office. Technically those gifts (including a golden golf club and a painting of Trump himself) are the property of the U.S. government. But many of those gifts seem to have disappeared. If it is found that Trump is in possession of them, that would be considered theft of government property.

Why wasn't Trump charged
Again, it takes time to build a solid legal case. He may yet be charged over these crimes.

See:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-storm-dorian-trump-idUKKCN1VQ00H
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/anger-trump-posts-picture-himself-012321053.html
https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-reports/president-trumps-staggering-record-of-uncharged-crimes/
https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-russia-ukraine-donald-trump-presidential-campaigns-4ce3a13c3fe27255210adc0c83a80da1
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/3-755-gold-golf-club-160515514.html




Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 29, 2023, 12:26:52 pm
Hey, what happened to the impending indictment?  The walls were closing in, no?  LOL!!!!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 29, 2023, 12:29:19 pm
Hey, what happened to the impending indictment?  The walls were closing in, no?  LOL!!!!
I think there are more than one coming. But panicky Trump was the one who told you about it in the first place. LOL!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 29, 2023, 12:30:17 pm
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-manhattan-prosecutors-signal-criminal-charges-likely-for-trump/

Criminal charges for our boy.... with the Stormy payoff...
this is what happens when one assumes that what they're reading from the mainstream media is true and accurate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 29, 2023, 12:30:24 pm
Hey, what happened to the impending indictment?  The walls were closing in, no?  LOL!!!!

you mean the indictment Trump said was pending... that was your boy Trumpee, hey! LOL!

Trump predicts imminent arrest, calls for protests (https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/18/trump-protest-arrest-tuesday-00087738)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 29, 2023, 12:32:17 pm
Hey, what happened to the impending indictment?  The walls were closing in, no?  LOL!!!!

It's been pushed back due to a break in the Grand Jury proceedings, dummy.

link (https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/29/manhattan-trump-grand-jury-set-to-break-for-a-month-00089422)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 29, 2023, 12:32:22 pm
you mean the indictment Trump said was pending... that was your boy Trumpee, hey! LOL!

Trump predicts imminent arrest, calls for protests (https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/18/trump-protest-arrest-tuesday-00087738)
It’s was the New York Times that called it pending.  Now, not so much! 😂😂😂

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 29, 2023, 12:35:05 pm
It’s was the New York Times that called it pending.  Now, not so much! 😂😂😂

(Attachment Link)

What do you think the word "pending" means exactly?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 29, 2023, 12:48:36 pm
Libtards called it imminent, and allowed Trump to fundraise over it.  They'll never learn.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 29, 2023, 01:10:01 pm
Trump is a libtard now? Amazing the pretzels these small minds can twist themselves into. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 29, 2023, 01:30:03 pm
What do you think the word "pending" means exactly?
You will have to forgive shady... After all, his idea of "time" is extremely warped. Remember, this is the guy who think you could train nurses to deal with highly communicable diseases instantaneously, like plugging them into the matrix. He's kind of like a toddler, unaware that not everything happens instantaneously.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 29, 2023, 01:54:46 pm
You will have to forgive shady... After all, his idea of "time" is extremely warped. Remember, this is the guy who think you could train nurses to deal with highly communicable diseases instantaneously, like plugging them into the matrix. He's kind of like a toddler, unaware that not everything happens instantaneously.
There you go again, lying as usual.  I never said training would be instantaneous. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 29, 2023, 02:28:50 pm
Libtards called it imminent, and allowed Trump to fundraise over it.  They'll never learn.

Trump called it imminent and how exactly was anyone supposed to stop him fundraising off it you nincompoop?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 30, 2023, 06:17:22 pm
Annnnnnd.... its on!

From: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-grand-jury-indictment-1.6796725
A Manhattan grand jury has voted to indict Donald Trump on charges involving payments made during the 2016 presidential campaign to silence claims of an extramarital sexual encounter, the first criminal case ever against a former U.S. president....

The indictment is currently sealed so we do not know the exact nature of the charges. (Falsifying business records is the most likely, but because of the statute of limitations on that charge, they would have to merge it with something like campaign finance violations or tax fraud.) And hey! Real crimes! (And not, as some MAGAchud claim, charges for "having an affair".)

The timing of this was... unexpected, since apparently the grand jury was supposed to listen to other cases the next few sessions then go on hiatus (so people thought they wouldn't be able to indict Trump until late April.) But I guess they managed to shoehorn in this case.

Admittedly, of all the charges that Trump is facing, it is one of the weaker ones (with less potential punishment than, for example, the document theft case, and a couple of legal complexities.) I wish the document theft case had gone first. But still... any jail time for Trump is better than no jail time, and hopefully this will encourage other prosecutors to step up their game.



Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 30, 2023, 06:33:59 pm
He's not gonna go to jail.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 30, 2023, 07:04:19 pm
He's not gonna go to jail.
I sure hope you're wrong about that.

There is a good chance he will die of a cheeseburger-induced heart attack before he is convicted. And I know that even if he does go to jail it will probably be a minimum security facility. But hey, at the very least:
- Him trying to defend himself still provides some satisfaction, even if his conviction ends up being something minimal like home confinement
- A conviction is still an embarrassment to him
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 30, 2023, 08:29:32 pm
A little bit more information...

From: https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/30/politics/donald-trump-indictment/index.html
Donald Trump faces more than 30 counts related to business fraud in an indictment from a Manhattan grand jury...

Wow, 30+ charges? I have to admit, I am completely stumped about what they might be charging him with. I thought the stormy daniels case was fairly straight forward.

Ok some things seem possible or likely.... charges for falsifying business records, tax fraud. Maybe something to obstruction of justice or engaging in conspiracy... But that might result in less than half a dozen charges. So what did he do to break the law 30 times?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on March 30, 2023, 09:20:41 pm
This is a great day for democracy!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 30, 2023, 09:38:10 pm
Or it's the beginning of the end of democracy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on March 30, 2023, 10:10:18 pm
Or it's the beginning of the end of democracy.

It had to be done.

If Trump was let off the hook, it would pave the way for DeSantis and others to do worse.

Evil prevails when good people are silent.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 30, 2023, 10:17:52 pm
I agree it had to be done, but that crowd is so consumed with its own incoherent raging feelings of victimhood, they may never recover from the ugly baby tantrum they're now likely to have.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 31, 2023, 01:45:14 am
Or it's the beginning of the end of democracy.
Actually I think the beginning of the end of democracy probably started either in the mid-20th century (when the republican party adopted the southern strategy, and aligned with the white evangelical movement) or with the appearance of Newt Gingrich (who typified the "victory at all costs" mentality, where republicans decided to substitute fake moral outrage and dirty tricks over policies to appeal to the electorate. As bad as Trump is (and he is definitely the worst president in our lifetimes) he is almost a byproduct of the toxic sludge that is the republican party.

This indictment is not the end of democracy, it is actually an attempt to pull the US back from the brink and perhaps restore some of the democratic norms.

I agree it had to be done, but that crowd is so consumed with its own incoherent raging feelings of victimhood, they may never recover from the ugly baby tantrum they're now likely to have.
But here's the thing, they have been consumed with their "incoherent rage feelings of victimhood" pretty much since Stubby McBonespurs descended the escalator to enter the republican primaries. They have been throwing their temper tantrums for over half a decade now. I don't think its going to get any worse because the badness is an ever-present defect of the MAGAchud.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 31, 2023, 02:09:28 am
I think Megan McCain (daughter of former senator and war veteran John McCain) just won the internet.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on March 31, 2023, 07:56:56 am
You'd think Republicans would wait until the indictment was unsealed before they declared it illegitimate and an outrage. They could at least then pretend their opposition isn't purely political and that they still believe that nobody is above the law. Disantis saying he won't cooperate with an extradition before he even knows what the charges are seems rather extreme for a country that has traditionally respected law and order.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 31, 2023, 09:04:23 am
You'd think Republicans would wait until the indictment was unsealed before they declared it illegitimate and an outrage. They could at least then pretend their opposition isn't purely political and that they still believe that nobody is above the law. Disantis saying he won't cooperate with an extradition before he even knows what the charges are seems rather extreme for a country that has traditionally respected law and order.
It would be so easy for the republicans to pull off a win-win here...

Claim that you "trust the American people on the jury to make the right verdict". Maye if you are worried about the Trump base, make some sort of vague comment about "I liked what Trump has done in the past". And if Trump gets convicted (which I suspect most republican leaders are actually hoping for), they would find it easier to absolve themselves.

Instead they seem to be trying to tie themselves to a sinking boat anchor. Pushing a pro-trump narrative (and giving even more power for a racist con-artist to wreck your party in the future.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 31, 2023, 09:43:41 am
Trump has locked up the 2024 GOP nomination for sure.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 01, 2023, 01:10:15 am
Trump 'INDICATED'... fundraising: $4 million in one {the first} day!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FsgI-38X0AEaeuM?format=jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 02, 2023, 07:34:21 am
Well said. Nobody should ever care what Trumpers think ever again.
https://twitter.com/SergeantAqGo/status/1642249932911329281?t=lhOyRhP_E7UpOYkUUh2vHA&s=19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 04, 2023, 08:26:02 pm
I imagine if there were evidence Joe Biden paid off Twitter to keep the Hunter Biden story secret and then falsified documents to hide that payoff, Republicans would be opposed to even investigating it, never mind charging him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on April 05, 2023, 09:26:22 am
And.... its happened....

From: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-arraignment-new-york-1.6800564
Former U.S. president Donald Trump pleaded not guilty to 34 felony counts of falsifying business records Tuesday in a historic moment for the United States, as prosecutors accused him of paying two women to suppress their accounts of sexual encounters with him....New York Judge Juan Merchan set the next court hearing for Dec. 4 and did not issue a gag order on any of the parties. He said he wanted to avoid infringing on First Amendment rights, especially as the defendant is running for president. But Merchan added he would be willing to revisit that....He flew home to Florida where he addressed family, friends and supporters at his Mar-a-Lago Club in Palm Beach, Fla., that evening — delivering a litany of grievances against investigators, prosecutors and rival politicians.

A few notes:

- I am a little surprised that ALL the charges were for falsifying business records. I thought at least some of them would be for conspiracy (since his crimes were in collaboration with Cohen, Pecker, and possibly others) or for tax evasion (since that would be a crime that would seem more... serious... to many people.)

- Trump's lawyers must be pulling their hair out over some of Trump's actions. He was told by the judge not to run his mouth off, but at his first opportunity they start attacking Bragg and the judge (even posting a picture of the judge's daughter on line)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 05, 2023, 10:19:45 am
"Nothing says 'innocent' like threatening a judge's family." - Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on April 05, 2023, 10:40:26 am
And.... its happened....

From: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-arraignment-new-york-1.6800564
Former U.S. president Donald Trump pleaded not guilty to 34 felony counts of falsifying business records Tuesday in a historic moment for the United States, as prosecutors accused him of paying two women to suppress their accounts of sexual encounters with him....New York Judge Juan Merchan set the next court hearing for Dec. 4 and did not issue a gag order on any of the parties. He said he wanted to avoid infringing on First Amendment rights, especially as the defendant is running for president. But Merchan added he would be willing to revisit that....He flew home to Florida where he addressed family, friends and supporters at his Mar-a-Lago Club in Palm Beach, Fla., that evening — delivering a litany of grievances against investigators, prosecutors and rival politicians.

A few notes:

- I am a little surprised that ALL the charges were for falsifying business records. I thought at least some of them would be for conspiracy (since his crimes were in collaboration with Cohen, Pecker, and possibly others) or for tax evasion (since that would be a crime that would seem more... serious... to many people.)

- Trump's lawyers must be pulling their hair out over some of Trump's actions. He was told by the judge not to run his mouth off, but at his first opportunity they start attacking Bragg and the judge (even posting a picture of the judge's daughter on line)

Huh, I guess the walls closed in after all lmao.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on April 09, 2023, 11:01:44 am
(https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/fe6b5e5/2147483647/strip/false/crop/2000x1124+0+0/resize/1486x835!/quality/80/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fd5%2F94%2Fef1485e1f3240d39d908265215d0%2Fla-1492547136-ijkduvkawr-snap-image)(https://i.imgur.com/Pwa4OWP.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on April 09, 2023, 12:25:42 pm
At least he keeps it real I guess.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on April 09, 2023, 01:38:54 pm

He's a narcissistic crybaby. 

I guess that's real.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on April 13, 2023, 07:07:58 am
"Off the record", Trump campaign admits to Fox in December 2029 there were no actual issues with Dominion voting machines. Why do Trumpers just accept getting lied to like they're gullible idiots?

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1646322546109759489?t=rIGOBSHLnT0Zwrk-OsF71A&s=19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 13, 2023, 07:11:36 am
Answer: all people have delusions in their lives and are susceptible to believing them... group delusions are particularly difficult but the way to beat them is to pop the bubble and get some of those inside it to accept reason and change the culture.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on April 24, 2023, 11:19:15 pm
Answer: all people have delusions in their lives and are susceptible to believing them... group delusions are particularly difficult but the way to beat them is to pop the bubble and get some of those inside it to accept reason and change the culture.

No, not all people have delusions.  Don’t make excuses for Trumptards. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 25, 2023, 06:53:47 am
No, not all people have delusions.  Don’t make excuses for Trumptards.

We all have a sphere of reality that is separate from physical reality.  Some of the bubbles are easier to pop than others.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 09, 2023, 06:43:43 pm
Found guilty of sexual abuse and defamation.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6836967

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on May 09, 2023, 08:17:47 pm
Found guilty of sexual abuse and defamation.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6836967

He'll still have a solid 30% base and more GOP politicians kissing his arse than turning away from him.

WTF happened to America?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 10, 2023, 12:15:43 am
Found guilty of sexual abuse and defamation.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6836967
To nitpick a little...

Trump was found liable, but "guilty" is only something that can be determined in a criminal trial. (This was a civil trial.)

Still, it should at least be an embarrassment to his supporters, and it should (in theory) cost Trump a good chunk of change (one which he will launch appeal after appeal to try to stop. Fortunately courts seem to be getting smarter, and they will probably not allow him to use the appeals process as a delay tactic.)

The one thing that concerns me... Trump was found liable for defamation and assault, but was not found liable for ****. My concern is that the MAGAchud will try to use that as an excuse... "Trump was innocent! Even the courts said he didn't **** her!" (ignoring the fact that he was liable for assault/defamation).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on May 10, 2023, 11:35:48 am
To nitpick a little...

Trump was found liable, but "guilty" is only something that can be determined in a criminal trial. (This was a civil trial.)
Exactly.  Another civil suit, in which the bar is much lower for finding somebody liable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on May 10, 2023, 11:39:17 am
He'll still have a solid 30% base and more GOP politicians kissing his arse than turning away from him.

WTF happened to America?
Exactly.  Because the alternative is worse in the opinion of these 30%.  Policies matter more than somebody's terrible personality.  If people's lives are actually made better, they wouldn't seek out an alternative.  What a concept huh?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on May 10, 2023, 11:53:26 am
Exactly.  Another civil suit, in which the bar is much lower for finding somebody liable.
A jury of his peers found him liable of sexual assault. It was very predictable you would try to dismiss that. If he were found not guilty or if it were Biden, however, you would instead be overwhelming the board with extremely emotional emojis and memes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on May 10, 2023, 12:39:25 pm
A jury of his peers found him liable of sexual assault. It was very predictable you would try to dismiss that. If he were found not guilty or if it were Biden, however, you would instead be overwhelming the board with extremely emotional emojis and memes.
So what?  I bet you if Tara Reade decided to sue Joe Biden in civil court for sexual assault, a jury would find him liable too.  And let’s not get into all the **** accusations against Bill Clinton.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on May 10, 2023, 12:57:48 pm
You bet it would happen? Then why doesn't she?
Don't you worry about jeopardizing your weakened self-esteem further by worshipping a lying, insurrectionist sexual assaulter? How low are you willing to go?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on May 10, 2023, 01:38:39 pm
Also, if a conviction in civil court is so easy and meaningless, how come they didn't find him guilty of ****?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on May 10, 2023, 02:12:40 pm
Exactly.  Because the alternative is worse in the opinion of these 30%.  Policies matter more than somebody's terrible personality.  If people's lives are actually made better, they wouldn't seek out an alternative.  What a concept huh?

Imagine thinking MAGAtards care about policy LOL.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on May 10, 2023, 03:33:30 pm
You bet it would happen? Then why doesn't she?
Don't you worry about jeopardizing your weakened self-esteem further by worshipping a lying, insurrectionist sexual assaulter? How low are you willing to go?
I don't know why she doesn't.  Regardless, I've already stated several times in this forum, that I hope Trump doesn't run again.  I don't worship him, but at the same time, I'm not a braindead, deranged, Trump hater that spends every minute of every day seething about him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on May 10, 2023, 03:48:32 pm
Imagine thinking MAGAtards care about policy LOL.
Believe it or not, many people that voted for Trump care about policy.  It's why many counties that voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 voted for Trump in 2016.  But it's much easier to pretend that they're all just racist and sexist.  It's much easier for Libtards to digest.  Otherwise it takes some critical thinking.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on May 10, 2023, 03:53:50 pm
I don't know why she doesn't.
Obviously because she doesn't think she would win.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on May 10, 2023, 04:04:20 pm
Believe it or not, many people that voted for Trump care about policy. It's why many counties that voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 voted for Trump in 2016. But it's much easier to pretend that they're all just racist and sexist.  It's much easier for Libtards to digest.  Otherwise it takes some critical thinking.

Obama-Trump voters represent between 11-15% of Trump's total 2016 support so even if you chalked all of that up to favourable views of Trump's "policies" (which would be stupid) that's a minority of voters. Trump's appeal was his celebrity and revanchist rhetoric. Or to put it in terms even you can understand, white, non-college-educated voters liked the famous TV man who promised to own the libs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 10, 2023, 04:26:38 pm
RE: Why Tara Reade didn't sue biden...
Obviously because she doesn't think she would win.
Yup. While shady is busy masturbating to all these fantasies about "anyone can sue anyone and win", he ignores the fact that those lawsuits are not as successful as he thinks they are.

For example... lets pick some idiot at random who likes to sue people...

From: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/03/donald-trump-lawsuit-new-york-times-mary-trump
A judge in New York has thrown out Donald Trump’s 2021 lawsuit accusing New York Times reporters of an “insidious plot” to obtain his tax records.

The fact is, Trump lost the case not because "its so easy to sue people" but because there was strong evidence that Trump did indeed assault Carroll.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on May 10, 2023, 06:37:27 pm
Obviously because she doesn't think she would win.
This might surprise you, but not every woman that’s sexually assaulted wants to go through the process of reliving the incident, as well as all the media attention.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on May 10, 2023, 08:32:37 pm
Exactly.  Because the alternative is worse in the opinion of these 30%.  Policies matter more than somebody's terrible personality.  If people's lives are actually made better, they wouldn't seek out an alternative.  What a concept huh?

But those 30% are knuckle dragging magachuds who think Trump won the last election and watch Tucker Carlson for their news.

They are the people Trump meant when he said he could shoot someone on 5th avenue and not lose any votes.  He meant their votes.  They are red necked, hillbilly, bible thumping cultists.
 
Their opinion is worse than worthless.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on May 10, 2023, 09:37:11 pm
This might surprise you, but not every woman that’s sexually assaulted wants to go through the process of reliving the incident, as well as all the media attention.
So you believe Biden's accuser, even though she has presented no evidence, but you won't believe Trump's accuser even if a jury rules in her favour. Interesting. It's almost like you approach this purely from a partisan angle
I bet you think Santos is innocent too. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on May 10, 2023, 09:57:27 pm
But those 30% are knuckle dragging magachuds who think Trump won the last election and watch Tucker Carlson for their news.

They are the people Trump meant when he said he could shoot someone on 5th avenue and not lose any votes.  He meant their votes.  They are red necked, hillbilly, bible thumping cultists.
 
Their opinion is worse than worthless.
Your opinion is even more worthless than theirs, because yours lacks any kind of introspection and critical thinking.  You’re one of the libtards I was referring to.  It’s easier just to pretend that people voting for Trump are racist, sexist, etc.  That way you don’t have to examine actual issues, and actual reasons why somebody would think that somebody like Trump is a viable solution.  The same thing is going to happen in Canada as well if we don’t start to address some serious problems, that the people currently in power continue to ignore and/or downplay.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on May 10, 2023, 10:11:03 pm
Your opinion is even more worthless than theirs, because yours lacks any kind of introspection and critical thinking.  You’re one of the libtards I was referring to.  It’s easier just to pretend that people voting for Trump are racist, sexist, etc.  That way you don’t have to examine actual issues, and actual reasons why somebody would think that somebody like Trump is a viable solution.  The same thing is going to happen in Canada as well if we don’t start to address some serious problems, that the people currently in power continue to ignore and/or downplay.

What pretending?  I've seen them on the news.  They are like a completely different species.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on May 11, 2023, 10:15:15 am
Your opinion is even more worthless than theirs, because yours lacks any kind of introspection and critical thinking.  You’re one of the libtards I was referring to.  It’s easier just to pretend that people voting for Trump are racist, sexist, etc.  That way you don’t have to examine actual issues, and actual reasons why somebody would think that somebody like Trump is a viable solution.

If Trump voters were driven by a genuine interest in finding viable solutions to real problems, they wouldn't be Trump voters. Yours is a self-defeating argument.

Quote
The same thing is going to happen in Canada as well if we don’t start to address some serious problems, that the people currently in power continue to ignore and/or downplay.

The problem with this particular part of your argument is it involves ignoring everything that the people you're talking about say they believe.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on May 11, 2023, 10:48:29 am
It’s funny to listen to all the libtards seethe over CNN’s townhall with Trump. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on May 11, 2023, 10:52:48 am
It’s funny to listen to all the libtards seethe over CNN’s townhall with Trump. 😂

It's funny to watch you fall back in line behind Trump just like everyone knew you would.

But yeah anyway, so much for the liberal media being out to get Trump, huh.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on May 11, 2023, 11:26:12 am
It's funny to watch you fall back in line behind Trump just like everyone knew you would.

But yeah anyway, so much for the liberal media being out to get Trump, huh.
Noticing the over the top insanity from libtards following Trumps townhall isn’t falling in line with anything.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on May 11, 2023, 11:51:15 am
Over the top insanity? Did they try to undermine democracy with a riot? Or did they just criticize Trump for lying and for being a Putin lapdog?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on May 11, 2023, 12:28:33 pm
Over the top insanity? Did they try to undermine democracy with a riot? Or did they just criticize Trump for lying and for being a Putin lapdog?
No, but the CIA tried to undermine democracy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on May 11, 2023, 12:30:37 pm
No, but the CIA tried to undermine democracy.
You should explain that theory further so we can all laugh at you.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on May 11, 2023, 12:43:33 pm
You should explain that theory further so we can all laugh at you.
It’s not a theory.  Keep pretending to care about democracy.

https://youtu.be/14eq-ic8DXc
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on May 11, 2023, 12:51:17 pm
Noticing the over the top insanity from libtards following Trumps townhall isn’t falling in line with anything.

No one is gonna take lectures about people being over the top from a guy who spent days crying about a cartoon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on May 11, 2023, 12:53:01 pm
It’s not a theory.  Keep pretending to care about democracy.

https://youtu.be/14eq-ic8DXc

LOL you think posting the same bullshit video from those YouTube bubbleheads quoting the fuckin' Federalist is gonna convince anyone that this bullshit story isn't bullshit?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on May 15, 2023, 08:17:54 pm
A pleasant surprise to see some truth in the mainstream media.  Must be a gut shot to the some here in the forum that fell for this Russia nonsense.

[attachimg=1]
https://twitter.com/breaking911/status/1658206330157408273?s=46&t=C8Zj6S2wjnbPysohBCizdg
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on May 15, 2023, 09:58:51 pm
I thought he was going to uncover the "Crime of the Century." Instead he uncovered some procedural issues. Meanwhile, Trump is still subservient to Putin and says he would give Ukraine to Russia (i.e., "end the war immediately").
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 15, 2023, 10:15:37 pm
Yeah a whole bunch of cronies of a POTUS nominee were just mucking around with Russian contacts during the year of the election because they were all just watching the game together and having beers and it had nothing to do with them having the same political enemies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on May 29, 2023, 01:29:25 pm
From: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-supporters-scammed-out-of-thousands-trump-bucks-report-2023-5
Supporters of former President Donald Trump are reportedly being scammed out of thousands of dollars through the sale of commemorative "Trump Bucks"... Some of the people who bought the Trump memorabilia have attempted to exchange it for real US dollars at banks, and told NBC News that bank employees are reporting it as a growing issue.... The ad also says the bills are "not legal tender," but seconds later says the TRB membership card will actually allow them to use the bills as tender and deposit them in banks...or use them at popular retailers like Costco, Walmart, and Home Depot. Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Walmart and Home Depot all told NBC News they don't accept "Trump Bucks,"

I am shocked! Shocked I say! How could the super-intelligent people who voted for a racist con-artist who said he would "build a wall" and magically make others pay for it, and who said neo-nazis were fine people, fall for such a scam?

Lets see if I can find some sympathy for those that were scammed..... Nope, none here. I guess I wasted all my sympathy for the 10 year old girls who were assaulted and now have to give birth to the children of their attacker, thanks to the actions of Trump. I guess I have a little sympathy for the bank employees who have to put up with these people trying to spend their "trump bucks".


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 08, 2023, 02:38:59 pm
There is more evidence that Charges against Trump are imminent...

From: https://www.vox.com/2023/6/6/23750823/trump-indictment-classified-documents-mar-a-lago-jack-smith
Multiple reports indicate that special counsel Jack Smith’s investigation of Trump for the classified documents held at Mar-a-Lago is wrapping up, and some experts expect an indictment of Trump as soon as this week....multiple news outlets reported that investigators had recently told Trump’s legal team he was a target in the documents investigation.

Ok, it may seem rather obvious that "Trump was a target of investigations", but in legalese it tends to occur shortly before an actual indictment.

The article also mentions:

...in the summer of 2021, Trump had a discussion...that was taped by one of Trump’s aides.... Trump objected to recent media claims that General Mark Milley, his Joint Chiefs of Staff chair, stopped him from attacking Iran... (Trump) claimed to have a document with Milley’s own plan to that effect, but that he couldn’t show it to others.

Which is significant because he is contradicting his claim that he had "declassified things with his mind". (Not that that really matters, since it would still be illegal to have the documents, even if they were declassified)

Right now the big question is will he be indicted in Florida or Washington. Since most of his crimes (at least those related to document theft) occurred in Florida (e.g. obstruction), that would be the natural place to hold a trial. But, prosecutors will probably find a more favorable jury pool in Washington, because Florida be cray cray.

Also there is this, regarding Trump associate Mark Meadows...

From: https://www.salon.com/2023/06/08/bullst-meadows-lawyer-denies-he-flipped--but-legal-experts-say-should-be-worried/
"It is understood that the former North Carolina congressman testified as part of a deal for which he has already received limited immunity in exchange for his testimony," the outlet reported, adding that a source briefed on the agreement claimed that it would involve Meadows entering guilty pleas to "unspecified federal crimes." But Meadows attorney George Terwilliger denied the report that his client would enter any guilty pleas.. Terwilliger did not address whether his client had gotten immunity, however.

Meadows has already testified to the grand jury, but his close association with Trump could make any cooperation from him especially damaging to Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on June 08, 2023, 02:41:35 pm
There is more evidence that Charges against Trump are imminent...

From: https://www.vox.com/2023/6/6/23750823/trump-indictment-classified-documents-mar-a-lago-jack-smith
Multiple reports indicate that special counsel Jack Smith’s investigation of Trump for the classified documents held at Mar-a-Lago is wrapping up, and some experts expect an indictment of Trump as soon as this week....multiple news outlets reported that investigators had recently told Trump’s legal team he was a target in the documents investigation.

Ok, it may seem rather obvious that "Trump was a target of investigations", but in legalese it tends to occur shortly before an actual indictment.

The article also mentions:

...in the summer of 2021, Trump had a discussion...that was taped by one of Trump’s aides.... Trump objected to recent media claims that General Mark Milley, his Joint Chiefs of Staff chair, stopped him from attacking Iran... (Trump) claimed to have a document with Milley’s own plan to that effect, but that he couldn’t show it to others.

Which is significant because he is contradicting his claim that he had "declassified things with his mind". (Not that that really matters, since it would still be illegal to have the documents, even if they were declassified)

Right now the big question is will he be indicted in Florida or Washington. Since most of his crimes (at least those related to document theft) occurred in Florida (e.g. obstruction), that would be the natural place to hold a trial. But, prosecutors will probably find a more favorable jury pool in Washington, because Florida be cray cray.

Also there is this, regarding Trump associate Mark Meadows...

From: https://www.salon.com/2023/06/08/bullst-meadows-lawyer-denies-he-flipped--but-legal-experts-say-should-be-worried/
"It is understood that the former North Carolina congressman testified as part of a deal for which he has already received limited immunity in exchange for his testimony," the outlet reported, adding that a source briefed on the agreement claimed that it would involve Meadows entering guilty pleas to "unspecified federal crimes." But Meadows attorney George Terwilliger denied the report that his client would enter any guilty pleas.. Terwilliger did not address whether his client had gotten immunity, however.

Meadows has already testified to the grand jury, but his close association with Trump could make any cooperation from him especially damaging to Trump.
The walls are closing in! 😂😂😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 08, 2023, 03:30:16 pm
Trump totally agreed. His Truth Social posts have become particularly hilarious. They sure make it clear that only the stupidest retards among us could ever have supported him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on June 08, 2023, 06:59:56 pm
🥱 🥱 🥱
Trump “indicted” again.  The longest most extensive witch hunt in the history of witch hunts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 08, 2023, 07:23:14 pm
Woo Hoo!!!

From: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-indicted-second-time-233000986.html
Former President Donald Trump has been indicted for a second time, this time on federal charges in relation to his handling of classified information while out of office... “We’re learning from our sources that there appears to be at least seven counts here. This ranges from everything from the willful retention of national defense information to conspiracy to a scheme to conceal to false statements and representations"...

I guess the walls really are closing in.

Its been a long time coming, even if recent events suggest it was a likely event. After years where he was "untouchable" because he had the protection of the office of the president, after years where his various crimes were ignored because white collar crime is often ignored by prosecutors, it seems like finally there might be some justice.

Of course Stubby McBonsepurs and the MAGAchud are squealing "hoax" and "witch hunt", ignoring of course the fact that all public evidence points to the fact that he is guilty as sin.

This is really going to mess up the republican party, since there are polls that show most Americans think being indicted/convicted of a crime should bar a person from being president. But any trial is probably going to happen mid-way in the primaries. So they can't try to remove Trump now (because he's "ONLY" indicted not convicted) but if they wait they may find he is an albatross around their necks.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 08, 2023, 07:29:59 pm
🥱 🥱 🥱
Trump “indicted” again.  The longest most extensive witch hunt in the history of witch hunts.
Your tears are delicious.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on June 08, 2023, 07:46:05 pm
🥱 🥱 🥱
Trump “indicted” again.  The longest most extensive witch hunt in the history of witch hunts.

Witch hunt is not the first thing that comes to mind when I think of Trump.

It rhymes with witch hunt though.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on June 08, 2023, 07:48:43 pm
Witch hunt is not the first thing that comes to mind when I think of Trump.

It rhymes with witch hunt though.
No, it’s witch hunt year 7.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on June 08, 2023, 08:02:33 pm
No, it’s witch hunt year 7.

It can't be a witch hunt.  They're not coming after him.  He said so himself.

"THEY’RE NOT COMING AFTER ME, THEY’RE COMING AFTER YOU—I’M JUST STANDING IN THEIR WAY!"

Have you seen Truth Social today?  What a fücking püssy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on June 08, 2023, 08:05:55 pm
It can't be a witch hunt.  They're not coming after him.  He said so himself.

"THEY’RE NOT COMING AFTER ME, THEY’RE COMING AFTER YOU—I’M JUST STANDING IN THEIR WAY!"

Have you seen Truth Social today?  What a fücking püssy.
I swear that they’re doing this to get him re-elected, or at the very least re-nominated.  They’ve been reinvigorating his campaign every couple of months for the last year.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on June 08, 2023, 08:09:34 pm
I swear that they’re doing this to get him re-elected, or at the very least re-nominated.  They’ve been reinvigorating his campaign every couple of months for the last year.

Well, they'd love to see him nominated, of course.  He's the biggest loser in the history of American politics.

Biden is going to be in his eighties.  He needs all the help he can get.  The only sure thing for Biden is to run against Trump.

But the DoJ is not the Democrat party.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 08, 2023, 08:18:57 pm
One would have to be pretty craven to defend someone even when there is enough evidence to bring an espionage indictment. I wonder what it is that makes seemingly straight men want to bend over for him. He's a fat sissy in a wig and makeup. I don't get it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 08, 2023, 08:59:12 pm
Trump tears are particularly delicious.
https://twitter.com/TroyWestwood/status/1666965118138171394?s=20

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 08, 2023, 09:21:06 pm
One would have to be pretty craven to defend someone even when there is enough evidence to bring an espionage indictment. I wonder what it is that makes seemingly straight men want to bend over for him. He's a fat sissy in a wig and makeup. I don't get it.
During the 2016 election, Stubby McBonespurs claimed he could shoot a person in public and his supporters would not care.

Years later, he figuratively does the same... engages in crimes that are so easy to detect and prosecute, with mountains of evidence against him, and his supporters still don't care.

People like shady really are that dumb and gullible.
Trump tears are particularly delicious.
https://twitter.com/TroyWestwood/status/1666965118138171394?s=20
Interesting video clip. (Sounds like an older clip where Trump was talking about Hillary Clinton and her email, talking about how it was premeditated, involved a cover-up and false statements. etc. You know, pretty much everything Trump himself has done.)

Which is interesting... Trump spent the 2016 election (and years after) bashing Clinton and getting his crowds to chant "Lock her up". Yet after 4 years where Trump was president (and had his hand-picked choices for Att. General in place), Clinton still walks a free woman, with no sign of jail time for her. No indictments, no trial, etc. Trump on the other hand, within only a few years of him losing the presidency (and the protection it gives him from being arrested) is now staring at the possibility of spending the rest of his life in jail.

So there are 2 possibilities:

- Clinton committed no crimes, whereas Trump likely committed many. His "Lock her up" chants were basically empty campaign rhetoric, a lie to the gullible MAGAchud

- Trump was just very bad at picking people, and selected incompetent people for the DoJ.

Neither possibility makes him look good.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on June 08, 2023, 11:04:28 pm
Ron Desantis hasn’t been this erect since he tortured those guys at Gitmo
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 09, 2023, 01:26:28 am
Ron Desantis hasn’t been this erect since he tortured those guys at Gitmo
I'm not sure how much Trump's indictment will really help Meatball Ron.

Trump's trial probably won't occur for quite a while (maybe not until early 2024, after the primaries have started.) Most Republicans don't seem to care if they have a crook as a party leader, so just they will support Trump at least until any trial (and maybe even after he is found guilty).

And if he does get tried and convicted before the primaries (getting Trump out of the race), and DeathSantis becomes the nominee... he will be asked repeatedly if he will pardon Trump, which will either alienate the **** MAGAchud if he says yes, he will pardon him, or alienate the moderates/independents if he says no, he won't pardon him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 09, 2023, 05:40:20 am
No, it’s witch hunt year 7.
The fact you're willing to say that without seeing the evidence (and knowing deep down he's guilty as sin) says more about your lack of ethics than anything.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on June 09, 2023, 09:53:24 am
I'm not sure how much Trump's indictment will really help Meatball Ron.

Trump's trial probably won't occur for quite a while (maybe not until early 2024, after the primaries have started.) Most Republicans don't seem to care if they have a crook as a party leader, so just they will support Trump at least until any trial (and maybe even after he is found guilty).

And if he does get tried and convicted before the primaries (getting Trump out of the race), and DeathSantis becomes the nominee... he will be asked repeatedly if he will pardon Trump, which will either alienate the **** MAGAchud if he says yes, he will pardon him, or alienate the moderates/independents if he says no, he won't pardon him.

Tough to campaign if you're stuck in jail on espionage charges.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on June 09, 2023, 09:56:45 am
The fact you're willing to say that without seeing the evidence (and knowing deep down he's guilty as sin) says more about your lack of ethics than anything.
I don’t give them the benefit of the doubt anymore.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 09, 2023, 10:05:39 am
Tough to campaign if you're stuck in jail on espionage charges.
True, but like I said, Stubby McBonespurs probably won't have his trial until well after the primaries have started. (And even after conviction and sentencing, Trump may not go to jail right away, as the judge might decide to let him be free until all appeals are exhausted.)

And you also have the question: Does Trump actually need to campaign? He has a substantial lead now, and MAGAchud like shady are so dedicated to his cult that they will support him regardless of whether he can campaign or not (or can even inhabit the white house instead of a jail cell). It would be unsurprising if Trump ended up in jail during the primaries (be it federal or NY), and STILL wins the republican primaries.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 09, 2023, 10:05:50 am
I don’t give them the benefit of the doubt anymore.
Just like how you only question the integrity of elections you lost, you only respect police when they investigate people you don't like. You have no integrity anymore whatsoever. What is it about Trump that made you this way?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 09, 2023, 10:16:46 am
Just like how you only question the integrity of elections you lost, you only respect police when they investigate people you don't like.
But, but... that would make him a hypocrite! I am shocked, shocked I tell you!

Ok, maybe not shocked.

Ok, its pretty darn obvious that that is what he is.
Quote
You have no integrity anymore whatsoever. What is it about Trump that made you this way?
I guess the question is, did Stubby McBonespurs actually make MAGAchud like shady that way, or were they always racist, anti-social,  gullible morons, and Trump only gave them the ability to express their true leanings.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on June 09, 2023, 10:19:13 am
Just like how you only question the integrity of elections you lost, you only respect police when they investigate people you don't like. You have no integrity anymore whatsoever. What is it about Trump that made you this way?
No, you’re the one that only questions elections you lose.  Remember 2000?  Or 2004?  Ohio voting machines?  How quickly you forget huh?  Remember 2016?  Russia stole the election?  I’ve never seen so much projection. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on June 09, 2023, 10:25:23 am
No, you’re the one that only questions elections you lose.  Remember 2000?  Or 2004?  Ohio voting machines?  How quickly you forget huh?  Remember 2016?  Russia stole the election?  I’ve never seen so much projection. 😂

I always love to see when you learn new terms from me but don't know how to properly use them, it's like watching a monkey imitating a person.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 09, 2023, 02:41:51 pm
The unsealed indictment is worse than I thought. He literally had nuclear secrets, information on U.S. vulnerabilities to attack, and attack plans, and he left them lying around and showed them to random people. And then he hid them when he was asked to give them back
It's going to take some creative whataboutisms to try and justify those actions.

...but...but... Hillary's emails! 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on June 09, 2023, 03:56:37 pm
The unsealed indictment is worse than I thought. He literally had nuclear secrets, information on U.S. vulnerabilities to attack, and attack plans, and he left them lying around and showed them to random people. And then he hid them when he was asked to give them back
It's going to take some creative whataboutisms to try and justify those actions.

...but...but... Hillary's emails! 😂
What Trump does, doesn’t excuse Hillary’s illegal private server, and the classified material she possessed.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 09, 2023, 04:00:00 pm
I guess if there's something there, they'll indict her....oh wait. After years of investigating, it turned out to be a nothing burger. All you can do now is tear down the police because they didn't find what you so hoped they would. Another sad, pathetic, failed whataboutism. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on June 09, 2023, 04:27:24 pm
I guess if there's something there, they'll indict her....oh wait. After years of investigating, it turned out to be a nothing burger. All you can do now is tear down the police because they didn't find what you so hoped they would. Another sad, pathetic, failed whataboutism. 😂
She has an illegal private server.  That’s illegal.  She had classified material.  That’s also illegal.  They chose not to prosecute because there are two standards of justice now, one for Democrats, the rich and elite, and one for everybody else.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 09, 2023, 04:39:21 pm
She has an illegal private server.  That’s illegal.  She had classified material.  That’s also illegal.  They chose not to prosecute because there are two standards of justice now, one for Democrats, the rich and elite, and one for everybody else.
Yes, you screeched about that over and over, but then it turned out it was all nothing. Unfortunately you guys were so hoodwinked you thought that gave you permission to break the law, but it doesn't. Hopefully you won't be calling for terrorism again during your next riot. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 09, 2023, 04:43:25 pm
I guess if there's something there, they'll indict her....oh wait. After years of investigating, it turned out to be a nothing burger. All you can do now is tear down the police because they didn't find what you so hoped they would. Another sad, pathetic, failed whataboutism. 😂
Hey Trump and his minions only had 4 years to build a case against Clinton. I'm sure that if you put him back into office again they will manage to secure an indictment!

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 09, 2023, 04:46:42 pm
The unsealed indictment is worse than I thought. He literally had nuclear secrets, information on U.S. vulnerabilities to attack, and attack plans, and he left them lying around and showed them to random people. And then he hid them when he was asked to give them back
Lordy... nuclear secrets? That is especially bad for Stubby McBonespurs.

You see, Trump claimed (incorrectly) that he used his mental powers to declassify documents. (He didn't, but lets assume there is a MAGAchud on the jury who is as gullible as shady and falls for that claim.) But from what I understand, nuclear secrets cannot be declassified by the president, even one with extraordinary mental powers.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 09, 2023, 05:04:09 pm
Supposedly the contents of another audio recording has been made public...

This involves Trump referring to a document that he had  in 2021 (regarding military plans and Iran) that Trump said "this is secret" and that "he could declassify it when president but could not now".

Which of course means that his whole "its declassified when I take it" was something he knew was a lie. It also means that if/when it goes to trial, he can't claim he "just didn't know" about its classified status and/or the ramifications of having them".

See: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/09/politics/trump-tape-didnt-declassify-secret-information/index.html

Oh, and you know how the MAGAchud like to claim the documents were securely stored in a store room? (It had a pad-lock and everything!) Well apparently there are pictures of various boxes of documents stored in bathrooms at Mar a Lago, and on stage in their ballroom.

From: https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-classified-documents-indictment-live-updates-d50264cc69b9a6eefd8e47821359ff5e
Prosecutors noted that “tens of thousands of members and guests” visited the “active social club” of Mar-a-Lago between the end of Trump’s presidency in January 2021 through the August 2022 search. They argued that “nonetheless” Trump stored documents “in a ballroom, a bathroom and shower, and office space, his bedroom, and a storage room.”

Its amazing that, as bad as we suspected things were, reality shows them being just that much worse, especially for Trump himself.

We knew he was careless about where he stored them, now we find they were in public areas like the ballroom. We knew he had 'classified' material, but we now know some of it involved nuclear secrets. We knew he was lying about his "declassifying with his mind", but now we learn that he's on tape admitting that yes, the documents were still classified.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on June 09, 2023, 05:04:57 pm
Lordy... nuclear secrets? That is especially bad for Stubby McBonespurs.

You see, Trump claimed (incorrectly) that he used his mental powers to declassify documents. (He didn't, but lets assume there is a MAGAchud on the jury who is as gullible as shady and falls for that claim.) But from what I understand, nuclear secrets cannot be declassified by the president, even one with extraordinary mental powers.
Just like Russian collusion right? 😂😂😂
Just like the Steele dossier right? 😂😂😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 09, 2023, 07:27:26 pm
Lordy... nuclear secrets? That is especially bad for Stubby McBonespurs.

You see, Trump claimed (incorrectly) that he used his mental powers to declassify documents. (He didn't, but lets assume there is a MAGAchud on the jury who is as gullible as shady and falls for that claim.) But from what I understand, nuclear secrets cannot be declassified by the president, even one with extraordinary mental powers.

If he declassified them, then why can’t we just look at them? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 10, 2023, 10:47:56 am
What Trump does, doesn’t excuse Hillary’s illegal private server, and the classified material she possessed.
Actually, according to Trump, those emails just contained mundane stuff like scheduling for her beauty appointments, as he recounted when talking about how her lawyer deleted them: "“He was the one who deleted all of her emails, the 30,000 emails, because they basically dealt with her scheduling and her going to the gym and her having her beauty appointments. And he was great ... So she didn’t get in trouble because he said he was the one who deleted them.”
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 10, 2023, 10:48:32 am
Quote
Lordy... nuclear secrets? That is especially bad for Stubby McBonespurs.

You see, Trump claimed (incorrectly) that he used his mental powers to declassify documents. (He didn't, but lets assume there is a MAGAchud on the jury who is as gullible as shady and falls for that claim.) But from what I understand, nuclear secrets cannot be declassified by the president, even one with extraordinary mental powers.
If he declassified them, then why can’t we just look at them?
I suspect you meant that as a joke, but believe it or not, there actually is some precedent to it...

Back when he was president, Trump announced (via twitter) that he was declassifying documents related to Russia and Clinton.  But when the media tried to access the documents, Trump's own associates claimed that simply saying that they were declassified was not enough to MAKE them declassified....

From: https://www.axios.com/2020/10/20/mark-meadows-trump-tweets-russia
White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows confirmed in court on Tuesday that President Trump's tweets authorizing the disclosure of documents related to the Russia investigation and Hillary Clinton's emails "were not self-executing declassification orders," after a federal judge demanded that Trump be asked about his intentions....BuzzFeed News reporter Jason Leopold cited the tweets in an emergency motion seeking to gain access to special counsel Robert Mueller's unredacted report...

So to Trump and his MAGAchud supporters:
- Trump actually stating "Its declassified" is not enough to declassify something
- Trump just THINKING "Its declassified" means its declassified

Making you wonder how you can say something without thinking it first.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 13, 2023, 02:27:12 pm
You know things aren't going well when your lawyers quit and then flip on you because attorney-client privilege does not extend to your client asking you to commit a crime. LOL
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 13, 2023, 02:48:29 pm
You know things aren't going well when your lawyers quit and then flip on you because attorney-client privilege does not extend to your client asking you to commit a crime. LOL
He's also having troubles finding replacement lawyers.

From: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/13/trump-finds-no-new-lawyers-mar-a-lago-documents-arraignment
Trump is expected to be represented at his first court appearance to face federal criminal charges for retaining national security materials and obstruction of justice by two of his existing lawyers, despite trying to recruit a local Florida lawyer willing to join his legal defense team....Trump has also seemingly been unable to find a specialist national security lawyer, eligible to possess a security clearance, to help him navigate the Espionage Act charges....

Of course, there are a lot of reasons why Trump might be having troubles finding lawyers to represent him:
- As mentioned before, he often implicates his lawyers in his crimes.
- He's a poor client to work for... doesn't listen to advice, treats lawyers poorly
- He has a habit of not paying his bills. (Rudy never got fully paid, and one of his current lawyers, Habba, might have to pay for a huge fine for a bogus lawsuit filed on behalf of Trump)
- Some lawyers probably see the case as a pretty slam-dunk win for the prosecution, and don't want to have the black mark of a losing case on their record
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 13, 2023, 04:22:29 pm
Trump will be pardoned by the next president.  You heard it here first. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on June 13, 2023, 05:56:35 pm
Trump will be pardoned by the next president.  You heard it here first.
Good point.  I agree with this assessment.  Whether a Democrat or Republican president in 2024, Trump is most likely pardoned.  It’s good for the country, and it’s great politics for the president that pardons him. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 13, 2023, 06:04:22 pm
There's no way a Democrat pardons him. They believe in law and order and one set of laws for everybody.

You obviously didn't read the indictment.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 13, 2023, 09:53:50 pm
There's no way a Democrat pardons him. They believe in law and order and one set of laws for everybody.

You obviously didn't read the indictment.

Agreed.  It won’t be Biden who pardons him.  Scumbag Republicans will win the presidency and they will pardon Trump with retarded excuses like “for the good of the country”, which only a complete idiot would believe.

He has no defence against the charges.  He admits to his crimes every time he opens his fat mouth.  His only hope is that a Republican wins.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 13, 2023, 11:26:04 pm
Trump will be pardoned by the next president.  You heard it here first.
I might accept that a republican will pardon him. After all, despite all their rhetoric about "law and order", we know they don't really care about crime.

But why would a democrat pardon Trump?

- Unlike the republicans, the Democrats actually seem to care about law and order

- Pardoning Trump would harm Democrats in future elections. (Trump deserves to be in jail, and letting him escape that will turn off many potential Democratic voters.)

- It will do nothing to "heal the country". The MAGAchud are generally low-information individuals who lack integrity. It is unlikely they will see a pardon of Trump as a reason for self-reflection. (i.e. they won't be saying "That Democratic president pardoned his rival. Maybe we were wrong and they aren't really satan-worshiping socialist commie child groomers") Instead they will take the pardon and either 1) ignore the gesture on their way to the next culture war outrage "So what if they pardoned Trump I still want to see hunter biden's dick pics", or 2) see it as a sign of weakness on behalf of the democrats.

Evidence points to him being guilty. Let him rot in jail. You will never please the MAGAchud... no need to sell your soul by pardoning trump for a fool's errand.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 18, 2023, 07:43:56 am
"Troubling numbers" of CIA agents were being captured or killed after Trump stole classified information on their existence. Republicans don't think Trump should even be investigated. That is all.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/05/us/politics/cia-informants-killed-captured.html?unlocked_article_code=eqcF_ISs2K-l8pzUNCLrITV-7p-dKvsYraB85L6u6NEfikf973kIJoyPq5-IS7x1_r2kNFoRkIZiVWNfC9m06J_JTR0n2d4nzzo_7g-rSmrna_z3D_srReNzCF6v34qyvrlUfB156xqGGXtRkLIp7xZaSKur8vzYyn0TlqmoK1ZSb7nCS66HjCZmPyPgGWBR1IExUwnJNDqWkpFInDk4b-_2RRym7ZA83-2J9GJXyCxpo7VfpOSfQjyVpUwPg6RLMlaNL1Knx7Oy-J7c7kuxUg3Pc7wn_SbCBBRrgfnv4J15-YbvIZJ1p4SSMeTAQonclPhorBrwjl_ShTr1MdhyDplqvaTjQSbuTG9z_Q&smid=tw-share
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 20, 2023, 09:51:28 am
Tentative Trial date has been set....

From: https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/20/trump-trial-date-documents-case-00102632
Donald Trump’s criminal trial for hoarding military secrets at Mar-a-Lago has a starting date-Aug. 14

Of course that date could be shifted, according to whatever pre-trial motions are filed by either side. Still, its amazing to think that there is the possibility we might actually see justice done before the end of the year.

It still remains to be seen if Judge Cannon is the one who ends up presiding, or they transfer the case to a more competent judge.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 20, 2023, 10:24:25 am
Meanwhile, Trump continues to shoot himself in the foot during a Fox news interview, with yet another excuse why he couldn't return the documents: It was the shoes!

From: https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/19/trump-sort-boxes-mar-a-lago-00102611
Donald Trump on Monday said he did not hand over government records to federal officials when asked because he was too busy to sift through the contents of the boxes.... “Before I send boxes over,” Trump told host Bret Baier, “I have to take all of my things out. These boxes were interspersed with all sorts of things.”

(In the interview he said there were all sorts of other things in the boxes... golf shirts, shoes, etc. that he wanted to keep.)

This is so stupid on his part, since the prosecution can use the interview as evidence in any trial.

Why its dumb:
- He's admitting to elements of the crime. It makes it harder to claim innocence if you are saying "there might have been classified stuff but I was just too lazy to go through it"
- If he really "didn't have time", then the proper course of action would have been to contact the DoJ/NARA and say "I've started to go through stuff but need more time", not "I don't have anything left"
- Perhaps he might have had time to go through the stuff if he wasn't busy directing his minions to move boxes around

So what excuses have we seen? The FBI Planted evidence that I declassified with my mind and have every right to have but I was too busy to go through the boxes to look for the things that I didn't need to return in the first place.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 22, 2023, 07:05:11 am
Watch the first minute of this... FOX is trying to make Trump look like an idiot and it's not hard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A27HoF4gEwo
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 22, 2023, 07:11:25 am
Now would be a good time for some projection about how Biden is losing it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 22, 2023, 07:14:50 am
Biden is shockingly feeble, mentally.

But a turnip with a capable supporting team would be preferable to Trump - who will fire the slate of bureaucrats and replace them with loyalists who will pursue a Soviet style purge.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 22, 2023, 10:15:32 am
Watch the first minute of this... FOX is trying to make Trump look like an idiot and it's not hard

(youtube video cut for size)
To anyone who hasn't watched this, let me summarize the first minute:

Trump: We should execute all drug dealers
Also Trump: Look at how wonderful I was by granting a pardon to a drug dealer

(The interviewer rightly pointed out the inconsistency by pointing out that the person he granted a pardon to would probably have been executed if he went ahead with his plans to extend capital punishment to drug dealers.)

Maybe Trump believes in zombies? Or the pardon will be granted to her corpse?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on June 22, 2023, 10:25:50 am
Watch the first minute of this... FOX is trying to make Trump look like an idiot and it's not hard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A27HoF4gEwo
For anyone new to Fox News, Brett Baier is pretty much the best, most objective journalist left in all of cable news.  Has been for several years.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on June 26, 2023, 11:11:23 am
video: Trump recent days "campaigning" in Michigan (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1673118054895730688/pu/vid/1280x720/x-AgzJJevFP1tFwi.mp4?tag=12)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 26, 2023, 08:28:25 pm
Trump showing secrets to people, telling them they're classified and that he can't declassify them because he's not president anymore

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/26/politics/trump-classified-documents-audio/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 26, 2023, 08:37:46 pm
FOX explains (very sanely) that the Russian coup story was drummed up to distract from the blockbuster Hunter Biden story.

https://youtu.be/YEfREbaid5Y
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on June 26, 2023, 09:26:16 pm
Bartiromo, say no more. Her peddling of the stolen election narrative is one of the reasons it cost FOX almost 800 million. I'm surprised she still has a job.

FOX still scraping the bottom of the barrel for presenters.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on June 26, 2023, 09:30:26 pm
They actually think their viewers are stupid enough to believe that Wagner orchestrated it to make the media not talk about Hunter Biden? That would be insulting if it weren't true...that they're stupid enough.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 26, 2023, 09:59:07 pm
I can't think of anything stupider I've heard this year.

And this isn't just a blank idiot ranting in a donut shop, this is someone probably paid millions to talk about politics on the number one network.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on June 26, 2023, 11:52:01 pm
FOX explains (very sanely) that the Russian coup story was drummed up to distract from the blockbuster Hunter Biden story.

https://youtu.be/YEfREbaid5Y

I don't understand why Murdoch does not put an end to this.  He is just opening himself up to future lawsuits.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 27, 2023, 06:17:38 am
Shocking allegation.

https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1673513144172388353?t=ug0UvqG1ylOQQTQjNWpwdA&s=19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on June 27, 2023, 09:30:15 am
Shocking allegation.

https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1673513144172388353?t=ug0UvqG1ylOQQTQjNWpwdA&s=19
In case anyone hasn't read it, this is an allegation that Trump advisor Steven Miller proposed destroying boats containing immigrants with drone strikes.

You can see a more direct quote here: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jun/27/trump-stephen-miller-migrants-boats-drone-attacks-book
Trump adviser Stephen Miller advocated blowing up boats of migrants with drones, according to a new book by a former homeland security official...

You know, if it were any other administration or advisor I might be more skeptical. But given the fact that:
- Trump called neo-nazis "fine people"
- Miller was behind the policy of separating children from their parents in internment camps on the border
- Miller also suggested the rather bizarre notion of beheading a terrorist and dipping his head in pigs blood
- Miller has been known to promote alt-right materials and conspiracy theories
I am more apt to lean on the side of "probably true".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 28, 2023, 09:23:33 am
Trump gets endorsement from Rosanne :)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/uVpb3GvbOIo
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 01, 2023, 07:57:33 am
At least one of the people Trump showed classified information is a Chinese asset...because of course she is.

https://nypost.com/2023/06/29/trump-aide-who-allegedly-saw-classified-map-works-for-lobbying-firm-that-serves-china/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on July 01, 2023, 10:43:44 am
At least one of the people Trump showed classified information is a Chinese asset...because of course she is.

https://nypost.com/2023/06/29/trump-aide-who-allegedly-saw-classified-map-works-for-lobbying-firm-that-serves-china/
Do you only care about Chinese assets when it’s related to another country?  I wish you showed the same concern when it comes to Canada.  But that would take having principles.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 08, 2023, 07:12:45 pm
Trump's chief of staff John Kelly testifies under oath that Trump tried to force the IRS to go after people he didn't like as revenge.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 09, 2023, 05:27:37 am
Is it me or are some of these allegations things that we heard before?
Like the meetings at the White House and the plan to have the military seize the voting machines?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 10, 2023, 02:03:00 am
Quote
Is it me or are some of these allegations things that we heard before?
Like the meetings at the White House and the plan to have the military seize the voting machines?
True, there does seem to be some repetition in some of the "scandals" that are getting revealed about Trump.

I think sometimes you get verification from new sources, or sometimes you also get an expansion of the scope of various scandals. On the other hand, Trump's scandals, screwups and crimes were so numerous that sometimes people might have overlooked them when first announced, because some other scandal was taking center stage.

In the case of Trump and the IRS, there were allegations from former chief of staff Kelly and others that Trump wanted to Weaponize the IRS at least as far back as 2022.

From: https://people.com/politics/former-chief-staff-says-trump-wanted-irs-investigate-rivals/ (November 2022)
As Kelly explains to the Times, Trump spoke often about a desire to use the IRS to audit his enemies, including Comey, McCabe and others such as former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Amazon and Washington Post owner Jeff Bezos, and CIA Director John Brennan.

The allegations from back then were from an interview he gave to the media. However, the issue is back in the news because it was part of a court filing.

From:  https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation-politics/trump-asked-about-having-the-irs-investigate-fbi-officials/ (July 2023)
John Kelly, who served as then-President Donald Trump’s second White House chief of staff, said in a sworn statement that Trump had discussed having the IRS and other federal agencies investigate two FBI officials involved in the investigation into his campaign’s ties to Russia. Kelly said his recollection of Trump’s comments to him was based on notes that he had taken at the time in 2018....Kelly’s assertions were disclosed Thursday in a statement that was filed in connection with lawsuits brought by Peter Strzok, who was the lead agent in the FBI’s Russia investigation, and Lisa Page, a former lawyer in the bureau, against the Justice Department for violating their privacy rights when the Trump administration made public text messages between them.

The fact that this was part of a court proceeding certainly lends to the gravitas of the allegations (as compared to it just being from an interview with a newspaper.)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 10, 2023, 09:46:00 am
Ray Epps is next in line after Dominion Voting Systems to receive a huge payout from Fox for lying about him and provoking gullible MAGAtards to threaten him.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/10/business/media/fox-news-defamation-ray-epps-tucker-carlson.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 10, 2023, 11:14:15 am
Ray Epps is next in line after Dominion Voting Systems to receive a huge payout from Fox for lying about him and provoking gullible MAGAtards to threaten him.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/10/business/media/fox-news-defamation-ray-epps-tucker-carlson.html
To be honest I am not sure how I feel about that.

Ok, Fox news deserves to be punished. (I am glad Dominion voting systems managed to get a big settlement, and hope Smartmatic gets even more.) And their claims that Epps was "working for" the government are clearly wrong.

But Ray Epps is not exactly a sympathetic character... He is not some innocent person unfairly caught up in a situation he had no control over. He was a Trump supporter who was right there during the terrorist attack, and was urging people to "go into the capital". He should have known that the "stolen election" was a hoax, and the MAGAchud he was associating with were not exactly rational individuals.

Seems like such a bizarre argument... "I was accused of being a fake terrorist, when I was a real terrorist".

He sounds like the woman who voted for the Leopards eating people's faces party, only to complain "I never thought the leopards would eat MY face".

As much as I dislike Fox news, I also hate seeing one of the people behind the January 6 terrorist attack profit off events which started on that day.

Maybe we will get lucky, he will win millions of dollars from Fox in a lawsuit, and then get crushed by a meteor on his way out of the court house.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on July 10, 2023, 01:42:27 pm
Is it me or are some of these allegations things that we heard before?
Like the meetings at the White House and the plan to have the military seize the voting machines?
This is news because Kelly swore under oath that it's the truth.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 18, 2023, 10:27:27 am
From: https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/trump-says-he-s-been-advised-he-s-target-of-u-s-investigation-into-efforts-to-overturn-2020-election-1.6484084
Trump said Tuesday that he has received a letter informing him that he is a target of the Justice Department's investigation into efforts to undo the results of the 2020 presidential election...Such a letter can precede an indictment and is used to advise individuals that prosecutors have evidence linking them to a crime... One purpose of the target letter is to advise a potential defendant that he or she has a right to appear before the grand jury. Trump said in his post that he has been given "a very short 4 days to report to the Grand Jury, which almost always means an Arrest and indictment"...

Hmm... maybe the walls are closing in...

Trump's legal calendar is getting to be a real log jam. Maybe he'll have to stop committing crimes for a while to clear up his schedule.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on July 19, 2023, 10:48:26 am
Trump's solution to farmers having their land bisected by a border fence... let them use ladders for the cows.

From: https://www.newsweek.com/trump-wanted-cows-climb-ladders-border-wall-ex-staffer-1813402
Trump "out of nowhere" complained that ranchers in Texas were being allowed to open doors in the border wall to allow their cattle to reach the Rio Grande.... "Just buy the land. I know more about land than any other human on Earth. Let's do it, okay?" Taylor quotes Trump as saying. "Give the ranchers ladders. They can use ladders to get to the other side, but not doors. You could use small fire trucks. Call the local fire stations, and use the ladders on their trucks to help them get over."...Taylor recalls Trump complaining in a meeting on March 28, 2019, that the troops he had sent to patrol the border were ineffective and needed to use deadly force. "But we can't do that," Trump said ruefully, according to Taylor, before noting that the Pentagon had told him to stop talking about "shooting migrants." Taylor told Newsweek that "when it comes to Trump, the truth is always vastly more idiotic than the fiction. He spent more time coming up with imbecilic ideas at the border than he did focusing on his job. Sometimes the ideas were stupid. Sometimes they were illegal. Often they were both."

Who would have thought that you could cure covid by drinking a pint of bleach and shoving a UV bulb up your behind, who thought you could prevent forest fires by raking the forest floor and who thought there were fights over airports in the revolutionary war would have such idiotic ideas on border security and livestock management?

But no, please tell us how Biden is somehow the one we should be worried about...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 01, 2023, 07:56:18 pm
Attempting to overturn a legal election is indeed illegal. 

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6924821

Quote
The four-count indictment alleges Trump conspired to defraud the U.S. by preventing Congress from certifying U.S. President Joe Biden's victory, and to deprive voters of their right to a fair election.

Trump was ordered to make an initial appearance in federal court on Thursday.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 01, 2023, 09:46:22 pm
Attempting to overturn a legal election is indeed illegal. 

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6924821
What do you know, I guess the walls really are closing in.

This makes 3 indictments for those who are counting (2 federal, election interference and document theft, one state for falsification of records.)

Personally I think the documents case is probably stronger in terms of evidence, but because the case is being handled by a Trump-friendly judge, and the jury pool will be drawn from an area that voted in favor of Trump, this case (overthrowing an election) probably has a better chance of success. (I don't think Trump will be found innocent in any of them but a hung jury is a possibility.)

And there is still the possibility of 3 more indictments:
- State charges over Election interference in Georgia (likely will come soon, given the fact that the local DA has instructed staff to "work from home" for part of August)
- Another possible indictment over documents, but related to him having documents in New Jersey (although the chance of this is small, since it seems they are handling this as part of the Florida indictment)
- More state-level charges in New York for bank/insurance fraud (DA Bragg had previously backed off charging Trump over this, but if the Trump organization loses their upcoming civil case, he might decide to reopen the case.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 02, 2023, 05:55:41 am
Best scenario for the US right now is that Biden wins, and dies shortly after taking office.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 02, 2023, 08:49:21 am
Best scenario for the US right now is that Biden wins, and dies shortly after taking office.
Why is that the 'best' scenario?

Biden is old (and there are obviously health risks associated with that). But despite all of the right-wing claims about how "biden is losing it", he still is a pretty effective president.

If he were to die, the best scenario would be for him to die late in his 2nd term. That way, Harris would still be able to get 2 more full terms, and would benefit from sympathy towards Biden. (If biden died shortly after getting re-elected, Harris would have to deal with term limit that let her get re-elected only once.)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 02, 2023, 09:12:39 am
It's pretty clear by now that they're throwing as much against the wall as possible, hoping that something will eventually stick.  Unfortunately, this kind of witch hunt has the effect of increasing Trump's popularity in the primary, and he's now in a stronger position to win the general election according to the New York Times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag0Ea-DSLmE
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 02, 2023, 09:50:05 am
Imagine your shrieks of indignation if Biden tried to use the presidency to bully an election official to come up with 11,000 votes so he could win. Just imagine. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 02, 2023, 09:55:54 am
It's pretty clear by now that they're throwing as much against the wall as possible, hoping that something will eventually stick.  Unfortunately, this kind of witch hunt has the effect of increasing Trump's popularity in the primary, and he's now in a stronger position to win the general election according to the New York Times.

Absolutely moronic. Being under multiple criminal indictments for being the Crime Guy Who Does Crimes might play well with the zombified cultists of the GOP but it's not going to play well with the general population especially when the crimes in question are attempting to overturn an election and block the transfer of power.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 02, 2023, 05:03:08 pm
Absolutely moronic. Being under multiple criminal indictments for being the Crime Guy Who Does Crimes might play well with the zombified cultists of the GOP but it's not going to play well with the general population especially when the crimes in question are attempting to overturn an election and block the transfer of power.
Its amazing how the MAGAchud keep shrieking "witch hunt" and complaining about all the different charges Trump is facing.

I suppose if Trump didn't want to be facing so many indictments, he could just, I don't know, stop committing crimes?

The breadth of Trump's shenanigans is really something to behold. If you compare him with Nixon... Tricky Dick was mostly tied to the Watergate scandal. There were multiple crimes that he could have been charged with, but everything stemmed from just the one event/instance.

But when you consider Trump, he's got a bunch of charges related to document theft, trying to overturn the election, and falsifying business records (related to Stormy Daniels payments). He has lost a court case involving assault and defamation to E Jean Carroll, has seen his business convicted of tax fraud, and had to pay millions over his inauguration, Trump University and the Trump foundation. There are also upcoming civil lawsuits for a pyramid scheme he was involved with, as well has business fraud.

And that's just the stuff he's either on the hook for, or where he could potentially lose. You can also throw in charges related to Russian election interference (Mueller found several potential charges that could have been laid), and criminal charges related to his New york business, charges related to his attempt to blackmail Ukraine into helping him in 2020 (things that he could potentially be charged for but that for whatever reason, the DoJ has decided not to follow up.)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 02, 2023, 06:55:00 pm
Its amazing how the MAGAchud keep shrieking "witch hunt" and complaining about all the different charges Trump is facing.

I suppose if Trump didn't want to be facing so many indictments, he could just, I don't know, stop committing crimes?

The breadth of Trump's shenanigans is really something to behold. If you compare him with Nixon... Tricky Dick was mostly tied to the Watergate scandal. There were multiple crimes that he could have been charged with, but everything stemmed from just the one event/instance.

But when you consider Trump, he's got a bunch of charges related to document theft, trying to overturn the election, and falsifying business records (related to Stormy Daniels payments). He has lost a court case involving assault and defamation to E Jean Carroll, has seen his business convicted of tax fraud, and had to pay millions over his inauguration, Trump University and the Trump foundation. There are also upcoming civil lawsuits for a pyramid scheme he was involved with, as well has business fraud.

And that's just the stuff he's either on the hook for, or where he could potentially lose. You can also throw in charges related to Russian election interference (Mueller found several potential charges that could have been laid), and criminal charges related to his New york business, charges related to his attempt to blackmail Ukraine into helping him in 2020 (things that he could potentially be charged for but that for whatever reason, the DoJ has decided not to follow up.)
At this point I don’t know how anyone can see this other than a witch hunt.  Throwing as much against the wall as possible to see what might stick.  And conveniently after he declared himself as a candidate again.  And the worst part is Trump has used it to take up all the oxygen in the primary and distance himself from candidates that were hot on his heels.  Before the indictments began, DeSantis was 6 points behind (42-36).
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 02, 2023, 07:25:36 pm
They didn't charge him with incitement. They didn't charge him with sedition. If they were "throwing everything at the wall", they might have gone with those charges too, as they were recommended by the January 6 committee. Instead, they charged him with a serious crime you know he did: conspiracy to overturn a legal election. Even you can't deny the evidence he did that. So you play even stupider than you are and pretend you know nothing and hope everyone else is at least as stupid as you.
Fortunately, they aren't.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 02, 2023, 09:50:59 pm
"Let’s let’s be clear on this point: It wasn’t just to ask for a pause. The president specifically asked me ― and his gaggle of crackpot lawyers asked me ― to literally reject votes, which would have resulted in the issue being turned over to the House of Representatives and literally chaos would have ensued.” - Mike Pence
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 03, 2023, 01:06:14 pm
At this point I don’t know how anyone can see this other than a witch hunt.  Throwing as much against the wall as possible to see what might stick.  And conveniently after he declared himself as a candidate again.  And the worst part is Trump has used it to take up all the oxygen in the primary and distance himself from candidates that were hot on his heels.  Before the indictments began, DeSantis was 6 points behind (42-36).

You mean before DeSantis started campaigning and everyone could see what a repulsive little goblin he is?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 03, 2023, 01:43:47 pm
Quote
Before the indictments began, DeSantis was 6 points behind
You mean before DeSantis started campaigning and everyone could see what a repulsive little goblin he is?
What our resident MAGAchud doesn't recognize is that Meatball Ron's support had already started to drop long before the first indictment.

His high-point in popularity was a shade under 40% in mid-february, but by the start of April (i.e. before Bragg launched the first indictment), Deathsantis had already seen his popularity fall to well under 30%. (And in the same time frame, Trump's popularity had increased by more than 5%)

If Governor Pudding Fingers had already lost a quarter of his support in less than 2 months before the first indictment, its hard to blame the indictment for the widening gap between him and Stubby McBonespurs.

Furthermore, Trump's popularity has gone from 54% in mid-april (i.e. the first opinion polls post-indictment in new york) to 53% now (after the 2 new indictments). So Trump isn't getting MORE popular (and he may have actually lost some support), its just that none of his competitors have really done anything to distinguish themselves as a viable candidate (or in the case of Governor Puddingfingers, has made himself look LESS viable.)

See: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-r/2024/national/


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 03, 2023, 05:11:30 pm
You mean before DeSantis started campaigning and everyone could see what a repulsive little goblin he is?

What our resident MAGAchud doesn't recognize is that Meatball Ron's support had already started to drop long before the first indictment.
That’s just not true.  It was actually Trump that was hemorrhaging support.  But thanks to Fat Boy Bragg, and his absurd indictment, he bailed out Trumps campaign.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 03, 2023, 05:13:11 pm
You mean before DeSantis started campaigning and everyone could see what a repulsive little goblin he is?
DeSantis had already been campaigning for several weeks.  Regardless, he’s less of a repulsive goblin than Trump or Biden.  It was nice to see Joe finally acknowledging his 7th granddaughter. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 03, 2023, 05:27:39 pm
DeSantis had already been campaigning for several weeks.

Desantis didn't launch his campaign until mid-May, you idiot. And while everyone knew he was going to run, before that he was still being gassed up by moronic lickspittles like you as a legit challenger. 

Quote
Regardless, he’s less of a repulsive goblin than Trump or Biden.  It was nice to see Joe finally acknowledging his 7th granddaughter. 

What does that have to do with the fact that your boy Meatball is getting totally rinsed precisely because he's a charsima-free weirdo who also happens to employ Nazis for some reason (https://newrepublic.com/post/174753/its-confirmed-team-desantis-created-video-giant-nazi-symbol)?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 03, 2023, 07:24:21 pm
That’s just not true.  It was actually Trump that was hemorrhaging support.  But thanks to Fat Boy Bragg, and his absurd indictment, he bailed out Trumps campaign.
Trump is only interested in himself and exploiting his power for his own ends. He's completely unfit for office but he isn't as dangerous as Disantis, who will persecute minorities and go after private businesses that cater to them.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 03, 2023, 08:36:28 pm
Just a coincidence. 🤔🤔🤔

Facts.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 03, 2023, 09:06:45 pm
Your conspiracy theory still requires them to produce the evidence of lawbreaking required to indict and convict.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on August 03, 2023, 11:53:05 pm
DeSantis had already been campaigning for several weeks.  Regardless, he’s less of a repulsive goblin than Trump or Biden.  It was nice to see Joe finally acknowledging his 7th granddaughter.

I have a fitting nickname for DeSantis:

"FOURTH REICH RON"
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 04, 2023, 12:10:05 am
Just a coincidence. 🤔🤔🤔

Facts.

(Attachment Link)

Pathetic. It’s truly sad for you that your wretched parents didn’t stuff you in a plastic bag with a brick and toss you in a river while they could because is you are doomed to live your life embarrassing yourself each and every day.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 04, 2023, 09:41:39 am
I have a fitting nickname for DeSantis:

"FOURTH REICH RON"
Yes, somebody that doesn’t force businesses to shut down, fschools huh to close, people to wear masks on their faces, and to take medicine they don’t want is definitely a nazi! 😂😂😂
You guys are hilarious and always entertaining!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 04, 2023, 09:42:18 am
Pathetic. It’s truly sad for you that your wretched parents didn’t stuff you in a plastic bag with a brick and toss you in a river while they could because is you are doomed to live your life embarrassing yourself each and every day.
Name calling doesn’t refute facts you d-bag.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 04, 2023, 10:09:21 am
Name calling doesn’t refute facts you d-bag.

Are you actually stupid enough to think they pulled together the indictment in like a month to distract from the Hunter Biden non-story? You have turds for brains.

Also, your lousy cut and paste job says Hunter Biden rejected the plea deal in court, which is false; it was the judge who deferred the deal. God knows what else they **** up.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 04, 2023, 10:26:08 am
Are you actually stupid enough to think they pulled together the indictment in like a month to distract from the Hunter Biden non-story? You have turds for brains.

Also, your lousy cut and paste job says Hunter Biden rejected the plea deal in court, which is false; it was the judge who deferred the deal. God knows what else they **** up.
Interesting time though, isn't it?  I know that you're incapable of any kind of introspection, or critical thought related to the power structures in government and authority, so I'm not surprised.  You're a bootlicker through and through.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 04, 2023, 10:30:24 am
Interesting time though, isn't it?

Conspiritard nonsense.

Quote
I know that you're incapable of any kind of introspection, or critical thought related to the power structures in government and authority, so I'm not surprised.  You're a bootlicker through and through.

You chugged Trump's balls for like four years, you have no leg to stand on here you stupid prick.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 04, 2023, 03:51:13 pm
Trump has 2 ways to get off the hook:   Win the election and install his own Justice Department that will drop the charges, or for another Republican to win and pardon him.   
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 04, 2023, 03:59:44 pm
Trump has 2 ways to get off the hook:   Win the election and install his own Justice Department that will drop the charges, or for another Republican to win and pardon him.

There's a third, funnier way.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 04, 2023, 09:02:40 pm
Trump has 2 ways to get off the hook:   Win the election and install his own Justice Department that will drop the charges, or for another Republican to win and pardon him.
Of course the problem is, he can only be pardoned for federal crimes. If he is convicted in New York (for falsifying business records) or Georgia (for his election interference there), federal pardons won't matter. So at least there is a fall-back.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 06, 2023, 12:20:09 pm
Mike Pence is the most cowardly weirdo I've ever seen. Nice to see he admits that Trump illegally tried to steal the election, but pathetic he would call the people who called for him to be hung "the best" that America has to offer .
I imagine his self-loathing must be off the charts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 06, 2023, 11:27:19 pm
whaaa! U.S. woke women's soccer team loses - cause Biden!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F24scrGWEAAOlvS?format=jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 07, 2023, 05:46:34 am
As I posted recently, this new populism is really concerned with entertainment like movies, and sports, pictures and symbols such as corporate mascots.

Imagine if such people had the discipline to listen and contribute to discussions about the environment, economy etc. Instead they will leave such discussions alone and willingly put themselves into a box of simpletons.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 07, 2023, 09:45:51 am
As I posted recently, this new populism is really concerned with entertainment like movies, and sports, pictures and symbols such as corporate mascots.

Imagine if such people had the discipline to listen and contribute to discussions about the environment, economy etc. Instead they will leave such discussions alone and willingly put themselves into a box of simpletons.
Yes, people are concerned with culture, because culture is important.  That’s why woke a$$holes are constantly trying to change it.  Regardless, your straw man of “imagine of such people” is nonsensical.  People that are concerned with culture are and do contribute to other discussions.  You live in a bubble.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 07, 2023, 09:47:06 am
whaaa! U.S. woke women's soccer team loses - cause Biden!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F24scrGWEAAOlvS?format=jpg)
Biden had nothing to do with them losing.  But I was really happy to see them lose in such a humiliating way.  They can practice sitting for the national anthem at home now! 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 07, 2023, 10:16:03 am
The Americans played well enough to win but it is good to see some new countries making an impact. I wouldn't bet on the Swedes getting past Japan.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 07, 2023, 12:28:55 pm
Yes, people are concerned with culture, because culture is important.  That’s why woke a$$holes are constantly trying to change it.  Regardless, your straw man of “imagine of such people” is nonsensical.  People that are concerned with culture are and do contribute to other discussions.  You live in a bubble.

Culture is important and also a distraction from real problems.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 07, 2023, 06:04:31 pm
Yes, people are concerned with culture, because culture is important.  That’s why woke a$$holes are constantly trying to change it.  Regardless, your straw man of “imagine of such people” is nonsensical.  People that are concerned with culture are and do contribute to other discussions.  You live in a bubble.

The race and gender of cartoon characters is not at all important actually.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 07, 2023, 06:32:33 pm
Biden had nothing to do with them losing.  But I was really happy to see them lose in such a humiliating way.  They can practice sitting for the national anthem at home now! 😂

Oh look another opinion someone else spoonfed you
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 14, 2023, 05:33:38 am
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-disqualified-holding-office-conservative-121920656.html

This just came out us professors argue that Trump should be disqualified at state and federal levels. This constitutes a new vulnerability for him, should a judge in florida, pennsylvania, ohio, or another swing state disqualify him.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 14, 2023, 07:20:01 am
Don Don is polling at 53% support for 2024 GOP nominee.  DeSantis is 2nd at 14%.

So confirmation that half of GOP supporters are either insane or complete morons.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 14, 2023, 07:47:28 am
Based on your argument in the other thread, the other half would be leftists.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on August 14, 2023, 09:27:17 am
Don Don is polling at 53% support for 2024 GOP nominee.  DeSantis is 2nd at 14%.

So confirmation that half of GOP supporters are either insane or complete morons.

67% of them anyway.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 14, 2023, 10:18:11 pm
19 defendants... Trump, Rudy, Sydney Powell, Mark Meadows.

12 counts for Trump...

What a mess next year's going to be.

The economy is at risk of severe meltdown.  True political instability unlike anything we've seen..

😔
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 14, 2023, 10:38:02 pm
Quote
Don Don is polling at 53% support for 2024 GOP nominee.  DeSantis is 2nd at 14%.

So confirmation that half of GOP supporters are either insane or complete morons.
67% of them anyway.
Probably even worse than that.

You have to assume that at least some of the 33% who are NOT supporters of Stubby McBonespurs or Meatball Ron probably LIKE them and would vote for them if they end up being the candidate, they are just concerned about their ability to win the 2024 general election.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 15, 2023, 06:27:48 am
Just increditble. The best part is the charges for harrassing the poll workers. That was one of the lowest things I've ever seen in western politics. Just evil, but fortunately they were also morons who kept their receipts when they paid to breach voting machines.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 15, 2023, 08:50:07 am
19 defendants... Trump, Rudy, Sydney Powell, Mark Meadows.

12 counts for Trump...
I assume you are referring to the indictments in georgia for interfering with the election there. (Including racketeering charges!)

What do you know, the walls really are closing in.

I hope they manage to find a few more things to charge with (like wire fraud for his 'stop the steal' campaign, or over bank/tax fraud in NY) just so they can get him up to a cool 100 indictments.

Quote
What a mess next year's going to be.
Well, a mess for Trump obviously (as he will be travelling between 4 different jurisdictions for trials). Probably a bit of a headache for prosecutors and judges who have to balance the different cases.

And a mess for the republican party leadership, who now are facing the possibility that their frontrunner for the 2024 primaries might be a convicted criminal, but with such widespread popularity among the republican party voters that they can't do anything to dislodge him.

The rest of us see it as an awesome byproduct of the universe finally correcting itself in some small way.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 15, 2023, 09:09:35 am
Quote
. The rest of us see it as an awesome byproduct of the universe finally correcting itself in some small way.   
Assuming he loses the election...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 15, 2023, 09:42:35 am
Quote
. The rest of us see it as an awesome byproduct of the universe finally correcting itself in some small way.
Assuming he loses the election...
Well, lets see:

- A conviction in one or more of the jurisdictions where he faces charges makes it less likely that Trump would actually win a general election. (Yes, the MAGAchud will still line up to support Trump especially in the primaries, but it will cut into his support in a general election.)

- It is unknown if Trump could pardon himself. (The constitution doesn't mention any limits on who can be pardoned, but some experts have assumed self-pardons would violate other parts of the constitution)

- Even if Trump does pardon himself (or another republican wins the primaries and general election and pardons Trump), the pardon would only apply to federal crimes. His NY and Georgia indictments and/or convictions would still apply
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 15, 2023, 10:16:38 am
Those ideas make me feel marginally better but..

Throwing us political system into gridlock once again would be very risky.

Trump's reactions to these things would get more and more desperate.

Worst of all, I feel I would have to give up social media altogether to avoid doom scrolling myself to death, even worse than 2020.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 15, 2023, 10:49:54 am
Those ideas make me feel marginally better but..

Throwing us political system into gridlock once again would be very risky.
Perhaps, but could it be any more damaging than Trump being left to, well, be Trump?

Trump wasn't indicted/convicted in 2016, and we got 4 years of a racist con-artist wrecking America. A convicted Trump in 2024 could hardly make things worse.
Quote
Trump's reactions to these things would get more and more desperate.
Yeah but remember... the more Trump's reactions become unhinged, the greater chance that some of his rantings will come back to haunt him.

The judge presiding over his Washington case has told him that if he doesn't behave, she will move the trial date up (something Trump would desperately want to avoid). Other actions from Trump (social media postings or speeches) could possibly be used in court.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 15, 2023, 03:37:45 pm
The Trump Derangementers have turned the justice system into a complete clown show pursuing their Moby Dick type obsession.  An indictment involving 18 defendants! 😂 To be completed within 6 months! 😂
You can’t make this stuff up! 🤡
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 15, 2023, 04:02:09 pm
Why should Trunmp not face charges for his crimes just because you worship at his feet? That would make it a Banana Republic. You know he did what he did and you can't dispute it. He was caught on tape.
And Hillary was right.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 15, 2023, 04:29:57 pm
The Trump Derangementers have turned the justice system into a complete clown show pursuing their Moby Dick type obsession.  An indictment involving 18 defendants! 😂 To be completed within 6 months! 😂
You can’t make this stuff up! 🤡

Guy who has posted hundreds of times about Hunter Biden's laptop: "Democrats are obsessed with a fantastical narrative."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 15, 2023, 08:39:57 pm
clearly a perfect report - irrefutable and conclusive!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3la2N6XEAAFKCi?format=jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 15, 2023, 09:04:00 pm
Many people haven't even seen it and they already believe every word.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 16, 2023, 09:43:21 am
clearly a perfect report - irrefutable and conclusive!

(Claim of a report exposing election fraud to be released Monday)[/img]
I am surprised.

I thought Trump's schedule for releasing stuff was always "in 2 weeks"....

In 2 weeks I will release my trade plans...
In 2 weeks I will release my taxes plan...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZLmhF7TgzY

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 16, 2023, 05:36:08 pm
I can remember when Trump lost to Biden he said the election was stolen.

I can remember when Trump won Hillary said the election was stolen.

I can remember when Obama won Trump & the GOP said Obama was born outside the US which made him ineligible and wanted to see his birth certificate.

I can remember when Al Gore lost to Bush he said the election was stolen.

I can remember when the Chinese rigged the last 2 elections in certain constituencies in Canada to help get Trudeau elected, plus some Chinese BS in provincial and municipal elections.

I can remember the nightmare i had last night of PeePee winning the next election with the help of the Russians.

I can remember....
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 16, 2023, 05:37:39 pm
😹
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 16, 2023, 09:04:52 pm
I can remember when Trump lost to Biden he said the election was stolen.
I can remember when Trump won Hillary said the election was stolen.
Not comparable in the least.

Trump's claim that he "lost to biden" is false. All evidence shows it is a lie. Yet Trump still has not conceded.

Compare that to Hillary's election... even the republican-controlled senate admitted that yes, Russia interfered in the election, and did so to the benefit of Trump. In other words she HAD a reason to complain about the election results. But yet she ended up conceding anyways.

So mentioning those things in the same post is idiotic rhetoric, the type of bogus claims made by republican shills.

From: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/senate-panel-finds-russia-interfered-in-the-2016-us-election
The nearly 1,000-page report, the fifth and final one from the Republican-led Senate intelligence committee on the Russia investigation, details how Russia launched an aggressive effort to interfere in the election on Trump’s behalf. It says the Trump campaign chairman had regular contact with a Russian intelligence officer and says other Trump associates were eager to exploit the Kremlin’s aid...
Quote
I can remember when Obama won Trump & the GOP said Obama was born outside the US which made him ineligible and wanted to see his birth certificate.
I can remember when Al Gore lost to Bush he said the election was stolen.
Another completely brain-damaged, idiotic comparison.

The claim that "Obama wasn't born in America" was a racist claim that had absolutely no evidence to support it.

Meanwhile, Gore has valid reasons to question the results of the 2000 election. (Whether Gore won or lost depends on things like what areas of the state were recounted, how 'pregnant/dimpled' chads were counted, etc.) And even if Bush might have won anyways, some people still think it was questionable for the Supreme court to artificially end recounts early. But Gore still conceded.

So once again, the Democrat had a valid reason to complain but did not.

From: https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/31/politics/bush-gore-2000-election-results-studies/index.html
The studies also show that Gore likely would have won a statewide recount of all undervotes and overvotes, which are ballots that included multiple votes for president and were thus not counted at all...The studies also support the belief that more voters went to the polls in Florida on Election Day intending to vote for Gore than for Bush.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 16, 2023, 09:07:07 pm
This new indictment is already covered by the federal indictment.  You know it’s getting into banana republic territory when Chris Christie comes to Trump’s defence.  He’s been attacking Trump constantly for the last couple of months.

https://youtu.be/yxLUfuaJrw4
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 16, 2023, 09:09:18 pm
Not comparable in the least.

Trump's claim that he "lost to biden" is false. All evidence shows it is a lie. Yet Trump still has not conceded.

Compare that to Hillary's election... even the republican-controlled senate admitted that yes, Russia interfered in the election, and did so to the benefit of Trump. In other words she HAD a reason to complain about the election results. But yet she ended up conceding anyways.

So mentioning those things in the same post is idiotic rhetoric, the type of bogus claims made by republican shills.

From: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/senate-panel-finds-russia-interfered-in-the-2016-us-election
The nearly 1,000-page report, the fifth and final one from the Republican-led Senate intelligence committee on the Russia investigation, details how Russia launched an aggressive effort to interfere in the election on Trump’s behalf. It says the Trump campaign chairman had regular contact with a Russian intelligence officer and says other Trump associates were eager to exploit the Kremlin’s aid...Another completely brain-damaged, idiotic comparison.

The claim that "Obama wasn't born in America" was a racist claim that had absolutely no evidence to support it.

Meanwhile, Gore has valid reasons to question the results of the 2000 election. (Whether Gore won or lost depends on things like what areas of the state were recounted, how 'pregnant/dimpled' chads were counted, etc.) And even if Bush might have won anyways, some people still think it was questionable for the Supreme court to artificially end recounts early. But Gore still conceded.

So once again, the Democrat had a valid reason to complain but did not.

From: https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/31/politics/bush-gore-2000-election-results-studies/index.html
The studies also show that Gore likely would have won a statewide recount of all undervotes and overvotes, which are ballots that included multiple votes for president and were thus not counted at all...The studies also support the belief that more voters went to the polls in Florida on Election Day intending to vote for Gore than for Bush.
Nothing in your statement is true.  Nothing.  You lie worse than Trump. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 16, 2023, 09:14:52 pm
https://youtu.be/iRYB6N8fBKQ

My favourite one was when Democrats insisted that voting machines in Ohio switched votes from Kerry to Bush.  I also enjoyed when some Democrats refused to certify the 2016 election results, and even submitted alternate electors.  But it’s ok when they do it! 😂😂😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 17, 2023, 12:46:44 am
I also enjoyed when some Democrats refused to certify the 2016 election results, and even submitted alternate electors.  But it’s ok when they do it! 😂😂😂

no - false: no alternate electors were submitted; rather, some progressive Democrats proposed getting existing Republican electors to switch their votes to Clinton or another Republican on the grounds Trump was unfit for office.

Post Misleadingly Equates 2016 Democratic Effort to Trump’s 2020 ‘Alternate Electors’ (https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/post-misleadingly-equates-2016-democratic-effort-to-trumps-2020-alternate-electors/)

of course {some} weasely Republicans have used this false claim as a justification for the Republican effort in 2020 to replace full slates of duly chosen electors pledged to Joe Biden with so-called “alternate electors” loyal to Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 17, 2023, 01:05:22 am
Nothing in your statement is true.  Nothing.  You lie worse than Trump.
We all know you think whatever FOX news tells you to think but isn’t it a bit late in the game to be hanging onto Obama birther theories?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 17, 2023, 06:53:00 am
Not comparable in the least.

Trump's claim that he "lost to biden" is false. All evidence shows it is a lie. Yet Trump still has not conceded.

Compare that to Hillary's election... even the republican-controlled senate admitted that yes, Russia interfered in the election, and did so to the benefit of Trump. In other words she HAD a reason to complain about the election results. But yet she ended up conceding anyways.

So mentioning those things in the same post is idiotic rhetoric, the type of bogus claims made by republican shills.

From: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/senate-panel-finds-russia-interfered-in-the-2016-us-election
The nearly 1,000-page report, the fifth and final one from the Republican-led Senate intelligence committee on the Russia investigation, details how Russia launched an aggressive effort to interfere in the election on Trump’s behalf. It says the Trump campaign chairman had regular contact with a Russian intelligence officer and says other Trump associates were eager to exploit the Kremlin’s aid...Another completely brain-damaged, idiotic comparison.

The claim that "Obama wasn't born in America" was a racist claim that had absolutely no evidence to support it.

Meanwhile, Gore has valid reasons to question the results of the 2000 election. (Whether Gore won or lost depends on things like what areas of the state were recounted, how 'pregnant/dimpled' chads were counted, etc.) And even if Bush might have won anyways, some people still think it was questionable for the Supreme court to artificially end recounts early. But Gore still conceded.

So once again, the Democrat had a valid reason to complain but did not.

From: https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/31/politics/bush-gore-2000-election-results-studies/index.html
The studies also show that Gore likely would have won a statewide recount of all undervotes and overvotes, which are ballots that included multiple votes for president and were thus not counted at all...The studies also support the belief that more voters went to the polls in Florida on Election Day intending to vote for Gore than for Bush.

So in conclusion, both the GOP and Democrats and their supporters whine like sore losers for the next decade that the election was rigged, except Donny incites violent mobs (except when protestors pelted Bush's car with eggs on inauguration day) and doesn't concede.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 17, 2023, 06:55:20 am
Shady, you're what's called "an easy mark".

Con man got you bad bad.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on August 17, 2023, 09:16:58 am
So in conclusion, both the GOP and Democrats and their supporters whine like sore losers for the next decade that the election was rigged, except Donny incites violent mobs (except when protestors pelted Bush's car with eggs on inauguration day) and doesn't concede.

Oh yeah, eggs.  I forgot about the eggs.

Somebody stand down all the courts.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 17, 2023, 09:59:48 am
So in conclusion, both the GOP and Democrats and their supporters whine like sore losers for the next decade that the election was rigged, except Donny incites violent mobs (except when protestors pelted Bush's car with eggs on inauguration day) and doesn't concede.

Basically yes. There’s a difference between contesting an election’s results through the official process or through the courts, another thing altogether to try and do so illegally even if sone people are too thick to know the difference.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 17, 2023, 10:00:58 am
We all know you think whatever FOX news tells you to think but isn’t it a bit late in the game to be hanging onto Obama birther theories?
Now that's not fair!

Shady doesn't just listen to what fox news says. He also gets his information from memes he finds on neo-nazi web sites.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2023, 10:04:09 am
So in conclusion, both the GOP and Democrats and their supporters whine like sore losers for the next decade that the election was rigged, except Donny incites violent mobs (except when protestors pelted Bush's car with eggs on inauguration day) and doesn't concede.
Donny didn't incite a violent mob.  He literally said go to the capital and make your voices heard.  But if you want to see violent mobs, see the BLM riots of 2020.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2023, 10:08:18 am
So in conclusion, both the GOP and Democrats and their supporters whine like sore losers for the next decade that the election was rigged, except Donny incites violent mobs (except when protestors pelted Bush's car with eggs on inauguration day) and doesn't concede.
Yes, Democrats have insisted that every presidential election they've lost since 2000 has been stolen.  It was "stolen" in 2000.  It was "stolen" in 2004, by voting machines switching votes in Ohio, and it was "stolen" in 2016.  They're the originators of election conspiracies.   They've laid the foundation of this kind of stuff for years, and are shocked, shocked!  When somebody else adopts their practices.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2023, 10:10:36 am
It's also very convenient that all of these indictments came shortly after Trump declared that he was going to run for president.  January 6th happened in January 2021.  But no indictments in all of 2021.  No indictments in all of 2022, and nothing in 2023 until his announcement.  If people can't see that this is all political, you're too dumb to be living.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 17, 2023, 10:18:43 am
Donny didn't incite a violent mob.  He literally said go to the capital and make your voices heard.  But if you want to see violent mobs, see the BLM riots of 2020.

Well, he riled up an angry mob, and got them frothing for Pence too .  Based on total bullshit.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 17, 2023, 10:21:40 am
Basically yes. There’s a difference between contesting an election’s results through the official process or through the courts, another thing altogether to try and do so illegally even if sone people are too thick to know the difference.

Yes there's a difference.  Clearly Donny is worse.  But the point is they both whine about stolen elections whenever they lose, pretty much every time now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 17, 2023, 12:22:08 pm
Donny didn't incite a violent mob.  He literally said go to the capital and make your voices heard. 

"And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore."

Quote
But if you want to see violent mobs, see the BLM riots of 2020.

Shady: against whataboutism when he's not for it.

It's also very convenient that all of these indictments came shortly after Trump declared that he was going to run for president.  January 6th happened in January 2021.  But no indictments in all of 2021.  No indictments in all of 2022, and nothing in 2023 until his announcement.  If people can't see that this is all political, you're too dumb to be living.

He announced he was running in November 2022, the first indictment came down five months later.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 17, 2023, 12:51:35 pm
This (https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/federal-judge-overseeing-trump-d-c-criminal-case-threatened) must be one of those economically anxious people with legitimate concerns about immigration i've been hearing so much about.

Quote
A Texas woman has been charged with threatening the federal judge overseeing the criminal case in Washington that accuses former President Donald Trump of conspiring to overturn the 2020 election results.

Abigail Jo Shry allegedly called the chambers of Judge Tonya Chutkan on the US District Court of the District of Columbia and left a message Aug. 5 threatening to kill anyone who goes after the former president, according to court documents filed Aug. 11 in a federal district court in Houston.

“You are in our sights, we want to kill you,” Shry allegedly said in the message.

The voicemail also included a direct threat to kill Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas), all Democrats in Washington, and all people in the LGBTQ community, according to an affidavit from a special agent with the Department of Homeland Security that was filed with the criminal complaint.

“If Trump doesn’t get elected in 2024, we are coming to kill you, so tread lightly,” she said, finishing the threat with an expletive.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on August 17, 2023, 12:56:06 pm
Yes, Democrats have insisted that every presidential election they've lost since 2000 has been stolen.  It was "stolen" in 2000.  It was "stolen" in 2004, by voting machines switching votes in Ohio, and it was "stolen" in 2016.  They're the originators of election conspiracies.   They've laid the foundation of this kind of stuff for years, and are shocked, shocked!  When somebody else adopts their practices.

The democrats never have claimed that any election was "stolen" from them.  What did happen in 2000, was that the results for the State of Florida was won by the Republicans by such a razor thin amount, that they insisted on a recount.  To the day, many would argue that if all the votes were counted, instead of stopped, Al Gore would be President.  However, the Democrats conceded to Bush long before the inauguration date.

In 2004, I do not recall anyone claiming the election was "stolen."

In 2016, there is evidence that a foreign entity (Russia) hacked into the Democratic servers, in attempts to help trump.  However, Clinton and the democrats conceded to Trump right away. Ironically, Trump was going on for weeks, saying that if he lost, the election was "rigged."  There is talk that Trump actually thought he was going to lose on election day.  Even when Trump won, he complained that the election was rigged, since he did not win the popular vote.

BY 2020, it was obvious to anyone paying attention, that Trump was not going to step down, and peacefully make the transition for Biden if he lost.  He tried to sabotage the USPS, by hiring Louis DeJoy as postmaster, a man who was woefully unqualified to run the post office, and as CEO of a courier company, has everything to gain by compromising the mail, and making people question the mail in voting process.  Trump also took aim at the automated Voting machines, for no reason, and Dominion was awarded one of the largest financial amounts ever from FOX News due to this. To this day, Trump's ego is so fragile, that he still cannot admit that he lost.

If America was not broken, and headed towards an autocratic government, Trump and his cronies would be in jail.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 17, 2023, 01:01:25 pm
The democrats never have claimed that any election was "stolen" from them.  What did happen in 2000, was that the results for the State of Florida was won by the Republicans by such a razor thin amount, that they insisted on a recount.  To the day, many would argue that if all the votes were counted, instead of stopped, Al Gore would be President.  However, the Democrats conceded to Bush long before the inauguration date.

In 2004, I do not recall anyone claiming the election was "stolen."

In 2016, there is evidence that a foreign entity (Russia) hacked into the Democratic servers, in attempts to help trump.  However, Clinton and the democrats conceded to Trump right away. Ironically, Trump was going on for weeks, saying that if he lost, the election was "rigged."  There is talk that Trump actually thought he was going to lose on election day.  Even when Trump won, he complained that the election was rigged, since he did not win the popular vote.

BY 2020, it was obvious to anyone paying attention, that Trump was not going to step down, and peacefully make the transition for Biden if he lost.  He tried to sabotage the USPS, by hiring Louis DeJoy as postmaster, a man who was woefully unqualified to run the post office, and as CEO of a courier company, has everything to gain by compromising the mail, and making people question the mail in voting process.  Trump also took aim at the automated Voting machines, for no reason, and Dominion was awarded one of the largest financial amounts ever from FOX News due to this. To this day, Trump's ego is so fragile, that he still cannot admit that he lost.

If America was not broken, and headed towards an autocratic government, Trump and his cronies would be in jail.

*raises hand* I think the 2000 election was stolen.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2023, 01:48:55 pm
The democrats never have claimed that any election was "stolen" from them.
Yes, they have.
What did happen in 2000, was that the results for the State of Florida was won by the Republicans by such a razor thin amount, that they insisted on a recount.  To the day, many would argue that if all the votes were counted, instead of stopped, Al Gore would be President.
Gore asked that only certain counties be recounted, counties favourable to him.  Each county had their own standard of what counted as a vote.  It was a gross violation of the equal protection clause in the constitution.  Regardless, many media outlets after the election conducted their own audits, and found that Bush won, no matter which way votes were counted.

In 2004, I do not recall anyone claiming the election was "stolen."
Democrats claim the voting machines in Ohio switched votes from Kerry to Bush.

Left wing media also echoed the claims.

Ohio's Odd Numbers
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2005/03/hitchens200503

In 2016, there is evidence that a foreign entity (Russia) hacked into the Democratic servers, in attempts to help trump.  However, Clinton and the democrats conceded to Trump right away. Ironically, Trump was going on for weeks, saying that if he lost, the election was "rigged."  There is talk that Trump actually thought he was going to lose on election day.  Even when Trump won, he complained that the election was rigged, since he did not win the popular vote.
Hacking DNC servers isn't stealing an election.  Clinton conceded right away, and then spent every day after claiming that Russia stole the election for Trump.  $100,000 dollars in Facebook adds can't steal an election.  But if you really want to talk about election interference, you should look into the CIA, the mainstream media, Facebook, Twitter, Google etc, censoring stories that were negative to Joe Biden.  That actually happened. 

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 17, 2023, 02:40:43 pm
Rather than conceding, as the Democrats did, Trump illegally contacted an election official and tried to intimidate him to come up with nearly 12,000 votes. I can see why your whataboutism creator is on overdrive.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2023, 02:43:32 pm
Rather than conceding, as the Democrats did
But Democrats didn't concede.  They refused to certify the vote in 2016.  Joe Biden had to step in, much in the same way Mike Pence had to.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 17, 2023, 02:55:23 pm
But Democrats didn't concede.  They refused to certify the vote in 2016. Joe Biden had to step in, much in the same way Mike Pence had to.

We're talking about a handful of Dems here.

House Democrats fail to muster support to challenge Trump’s Electoral College win (https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/no-trump-electoral-college-challenge-233294)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2023, 03:00:15 pm
We're talking about a handful of Dems here.

House Democrats fail to muster support to challenge Trump’s Electoral College win (https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/no-trump-electoral-college-challenge-233294)
And only a handful of Republicans did the same.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 17, 2023, 03:00:53 pm
But Democrats didn't concede.  They refused to certify the vote in 2016.  Joe Biden had to step in, much in the same way Mike Pence had to.
Would you have been opposed if Biden put forth his own slate of electors instead, or is that only okay when Trump does it?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 17, 2023, 03:13:47 pm
And only a handful of Republicans did the same.

Which is why only a few of them are being indicted. Again, when Democrats have objected to elections they have done so through the system, whereas when Trump and his cronies objected, they did a bunch of crimes.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2023, 03:16:58 pm
Would you have been opposed if Biden put forth his own slate of electors instead, or is that only okay when Trump does it?
You mean a slate of electors with absolutely no authority to do anything?  Um, ok.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2023, 03:18:48 pm
Which is why only a few of them are being indicted.
It's not an indictable offence to refuse to certify election results.  Objecting to results is outlined in the constitution.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 17, 2023, 03:33:45 pm
You mean a slate of electors with absolutely no authority to do anything?  Um, ok.
Yes, you could make the argument that Trump's coup attempt was stupid and incompetent, but that doesn't make it less illegal. And it certainly doesn't make you look intelligent for continuing to worship at his feet.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 17, 2023, 03:36:50 pm
It's also very convenient that all of these indictments came shortly after Trump declared that he was going to run for president.  January 6th happened in January 2021.  But no indictments in all of 2021.  No indictments in all of 2022, and nothing in 2023 until his announcement.  If people can't see that this is all political, you're too dumb to be living.
You are too dumb to be living, I guess.

https://www.axios.com/2023/08/17/trump-prosecutions-timeline-republicans-democrats
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2023, 03:44:42 pm
Yes, you could make the argument that Trump's coup attempt was stupid and incompetent, but that doesn't make it less illegal. And it certainly doesn't make you look intelligent for continuing to worship at his feet.
You still don't know what a coup is.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 17, 2023, 03:46:27 pm
You are too dumb to be living, I guess.

https://www.axios.com/2023/08/17/trump-prosecutions-timeline-republicans-democrats
LOL.  Sure Jan, sure.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 17, 2023, 03:48:37 pm
Reading is hard when it's longer than a meme.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 17, 2023, 03:55:12 pm
It's not an indictable offence to refuse to certify election results.  Objecting to results is outlined in the constitution.

Congratulations, dickhead: you just played yourself. All that whining and whataboutism over the Democrat's contesting Republican wins only to concede that, oops, it was normal and legal for them to do so.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on August 18, 2023, 12:07:58 pm
clearly a perfect report - irrefutable and conclusive!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3la2N6XEAAFKCi?format=jpg)
Well, that went well. Who could have predicted he was full of sh!t? 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 19, 2023, 05:20:32 pm
clearly a perfect report - irrefutable and conclusive!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3la2N6XEAAFKCi?format=jpg)

well... that was unexpected (not)!

(https://i.imgur.com/cuipimU.gif)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 19, 2023, 08:31:28 pm
So, when he attempts a plea, what will his cult say to explain that? 🤔
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 21, 2023, 11:45:21 pm
Russia, Russia, Russia!

(https://i.imgur.com/TG0rbHB.gif)

Trump plans to turn himself in Thursday at Fulton County jail (https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/21/politics/fulton-county-da-office-negotiations-trump/index.html)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on August 22, 2023, 12:17:16 am
So, when he attempts a plea, what will his cult say to explain that? 🤔

They'll say whatever he tells them to say.  Gullible doesn't take a day off.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on August 24, 2023, 06:02:52 pm
Well the GOP debate has come and went, and if it was not already clear, the Republican Party is now known as "The Donald Trump Party."  I have never seen such a pathetic group of shameless phonies in any political gathering. It is clear Trump has reached "Martyr" like status for 40% of the population, and the fortune of the party rests on him.

Having said that, I am creating a new thread:

https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/american-politics/the-donald-trump-health-update/msg110291/#msg110291

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 24, 2023, 08:42:24 pm
(https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-1240w,f_auto,q_auto:best/rockcms/2023-08/230824-donald-trump-mugshot-2x1-cs-254ed2.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on August 24, 2023, 09:02:09 pm
(https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-1240w,f_auto,q_auto:best/rockcms/2023-08/230824-donald-trump-mugshot-2x1-cs-254ed2.jpg)

You can tell he's serious by the look on his face!

Clown spent hours with a mirror and Karsh's portrait of Churchill trying to get it just right.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 24, 2023, 09:24:49 pm
This just means that the next 16 months are going to suck.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 24, 2023, 09:30:35 pm
This just means that the next 16 months are going to suck.
Quite right.  Wall to wall Trump coverage 24/7.  Whether one likes him or hates him, it’s exhausting.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 25, 2023, 06:47:22 am
Quite right.  Wall to wall Trump coverage 24/7.  Whether one likes him or hates him, it’s exhausting.

Trump is definitely a spectacle but there has to be a limit even for CNN
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 25, 2023, 09:42:11 am
This just means that the next 16 months are going to suck.
I think it will be awesome.

Trump is a truly horrible individual. His actions have lead to hardship and death of thousands of people. He called Neo-nazis "fine people" and mocked PoWs. And, he has a long history of criminal activity, ranging from fraud to attempted overthrow of the government.

Yet after years of seeing Trump escape punishment because republicans protected him, or because of rules that "The DoJ won't indict a sitting president", after years of seeing Trump shriek "Witch hunt/I did nothing wrong", after seeing the MAGAchud dutifully stand behind him, he is finally facing a modicum of justice. (And keep in mind that the crimes that he's been indicted for are only a fraction of the crimes Trump has likely committed... he's not facing prosecution for his actions involving Russia and the 2016 election, he's not facing prosecution for potential fraud over his real estate activities, he's not facing prosecution for trying to blackmail a foreign country into interfering with the 2020 election, he's not facing prosecution for violating the emoluments clause of the constitution, he's not facing prosecution for wire fraud over fundraising activities involving the 'stop the steal' claims, he's not facing prosecution in other states for the same sort of activities he engaged in in Georgia.)

Its like having sex for hours, but not achieving orgasm. When it DOES happen, you want to make the most of it.

ETA: Not only that, but if they weren't covering the REAL crimes of Donald Trump, the networks would probably dedicate more time to the republican fantasy of Hunter Biden. I'd much rather see them oversaturate the airtime with real crimes than with illelevancies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on August 25, 2023, 12:15:04 pm

Apparently it was Kubrick, not Karsh!
(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/films/2023/08/25/TELEMMGLPICT000346774764_16929737230510_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqqVzuuqpFlyLIwiB6NTmJwfSVWeZ_vEN7c6bHu2jJnT8.jpeg?imwidth=640)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 25, 2023, 12:28:41 pm
the final 'alleged Co-Conspirator' just beat today's noon deadline and surrendered - hence the complete 'Rogues Gallery' grouping of mug-shots:

(https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/230/6a5/3e7aa6bc4589cc7dcbe0d459e25fafbbab-trump-indictment-GA-mugshots08.2x.rhorizontal.w700.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on August 25, 2023, 12:36:25 pm
Apparently it was Kubrick, not Karsh!
(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/films/2023/08/25/TELEMMGLPICT000346774764_16929737230510_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqqVzuuqpFlyLIwiB6NTmJwfSVWeZ_vEN7c6bHu2jJnT8.jpeg?imwidth=640)
He already has a line of merchandise based off his mug shot.  Probably gonna make millions.  Great job guys!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 25, 2023, 12:42:57 pm
He already has a line of merchandise based off his mug shot.  Probably gonna make millions.  Great job guys!

Good for him, milk those marks.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 25, 2023, 01:02:24 pm
Well the GOP debate has come and went, and if it was not already clear, the Republican Party is now known as "The Donald Trump Party."  I have never seen such a pathetic group of shameless phonies in any political gathering. It is clear Trump has reached "Martyr" like status for 40% of the population, and the fortune of the party rests on him.

Having said that, I am creating a new thread:

https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/american-politics/the-donald-trump-health-update/msg110291/#msg110291

Well I'm glad at least a few of the hopefuls basically told Trump to go eff himself.  The real menace was most of the crowd that booed whenever any candidate criticized Trump over Jan 6.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 25, 2023, 01:20:20 pm
last tweet was made on Jan 8, 2021: what did it take for Trump to finally return to X-twitter? (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1694886846050771321?t=owy8wGGqA5bqyAhw5-KlDQ&s=19)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F4Vymo9XsAAHLJV?format=jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on August 25, 2023, 01:31:42 pm
Apparently it was Kubrick, not Karsh!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F4YRqvaXQAEJtnx?format=jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on August 25, 2023, 02:40:33 pm
I wonder how many takes they give him to get that mugshot looking like he wanted.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 25, 2023, 02:41:39 pm
Well I'm glad at least a few of the hopefuls basically told Trump to go eff himself.  The real menace was most of the crowd that booed whenever any candidate criticized Trump over Jan 6.
Did they?

From: https://www.kcra.com/article/gop-presidential-debate-asked-about-trump-support/44894636
The candidates were asked by the moderators to raise their hands if they would support Trump as the GOP nominee if he is convicted on criminal charges....Six of the eight candidates — Florida Gov. Rob DeSantis, South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott, former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley, biotech entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy, former Vice President Mike Pence, and North Dakota Gov. Doug Burgum — all appeared to raise their hands...

The only ones who didn't say they would support Trump were:

- Christie.... the man who supported Trump for years (even after Trump asked for Russians to help get him elected, and after he tried to blackmail Ukraine into helping. Ok, its good that he has finally shown SOME integrity, but you must be wondering why it took so long.

- Hutchinson... Perhaps the second-most anti-Trump candidate, but he might not even make the next debate
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on August 25, 2023, 02:59:02 pm
Apparently the picture of Donald Trump's mug shot is a fake.

I have attached a picture of his real mug shot to this posting.

(What do you know? you really can indict a ham sandwich)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on September 01, 2023, 02:07:24 pm
I have often found it funny imagining the Republican heads exploding if Obama had laid out classified files in a bathroom so that Saudis who paid him hundreds of thousands of dollars for a "club membership" could access them. Now what if an Obama official, during a riot Obama instigated, were caught telling the police to kill themselves. I bet they would say that isn't a good look for a president.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dylan-quattrucci-police-hang-themselves_n_64f1ad1be4b096f15d7f435a
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 05, 2023, 10:28:05 am
Now what if an Obama official, during a riot Obama instigated, were caught telling the police to kill themselves. I bet they would say that isn't a good look for a president.
Republicans: "We back the blue! But only when they shoot minorities."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 11, 2023, 03:36:23 pm
The MyPillow guy who was instrumental in planning the Trump transition gives a deposition and it's funny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT1bVUp6LU8
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 18, 2023, 09:20:59 am
Trump might have just torpedoed his main defense in the election fraud case.

One possible way that Trump might have defended himself is to claim "I had bad advice from my lawyers". However:

From: https://news.yahoo.com/legal-experts-donald-trump-just-103421709.html
Donald Trump doomed one of his legal defenses during his interview with NBC’s Kristen Welker that aired on Sunday’s broadcast of “Meet the Press”... Trump told Welker it was his decision — and not that of his lawyers — to challenge the 2020 election result.

I am sure his lawyers (well, any competent ones he has working for him) are probably pulling out their hair right now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 18, 2023, 12:20:16 pm
Trump accuses Biden of being a time travelling wizard!

From: https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-speech-world-war-ii-biden-obama-b2412922.html
In his latest gaffe-laden speech, Donald Trump appeared to suggest former President Barack Obama was running in 2024 as he warned that “cognitively impaired” President Joe Biden could lead the country into “World War Two” if he wins re-election.

So in his speech, Trump:
- suggested Biden will somehow time-travel back to the 1930s/40s and start World war 2
- said he will be facing Obama in 2024.
- Said He also beat Obama in 2016
This is in addition to all the general stream-of-thought incoherent word salad that Trump generally engages in.

And of course he did all this in a speech where he was claiming Biden was 'cognitively declined'.

If it were some other politician you could suggest those were just regular gaffs that everyone makes from time to time. But the Republicans and MAGAchud have been beating the "Biden is too old" drum for years. Could you imagine how often Fox news would replay the clips if Biden made the same sort of mistakes?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on September 18, 2023, 01:48:49 pm
Picture ID to buy a loaf of bread. Like Trump has ever bought a loaf of bread in his life.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 19, 2023, 11:24:34 am
Trump's message to his assistant: Please pick up my dry cleaning, get me some McDonalds, oh, and here are the nuclear launch codes.

From: https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-wrote-lists-assistant-white-house-documents-marked/story?id=103226113
...the aide, Molly Michael, told investigators that -- more than once -- she received requests or taskings from Trump that were written on the back of notecards, and she later recognized those notecards as sensitive White House materials -- with visible classification markings... Sources said that after Trump heard the FBI wanted to interview Michael last year, Trump allegedly told her, "You don't know anything about the boxes."

Its hard to say what is more damaging... the fact that he was using classified material as scrap paper, or the fact that once again he seems to be obstructing justice when he tried to control what his aide would say to the FBI.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on September 26, 2023, 09:09:34 pm
What is the world coming to, when a man gets punished for the simple act of committing fraud for years?

From: https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-letitia-james-fraud-lawsuit-1569245a9284427117b8d3ba5da74249
Judge Arthur Engoron, ruling in a civil lawsuit brought by New York Attorney General Letitia James, found that Trump and his company deceived banks, insurers and others by massively overvaluing his assets and exaggerating his net worth on paperwork used in making deals and securing loans. Engoron ordered that some of Trump’s business licenses be rescinded as punishment, making it difficult or impossible for them to do business in New York... Engoron’s ruling, in a phase of the case known as summary judgment, resolves the key claim in James’ lawsuit, but several others remain. He’ll decide on those claims and James’ request for $250 million in penalties at a trial starting Oct. 2.

Trump of course will appeal, but I suspect he will lose his appeals, given the fact that 1) Trump doesn't really seem to have any legal defense and just whines in public about unfair treatment, and 2) he has a habit of picking incompetent lawyers. If I understand correctly, he had the option of a jury trial but decided on a bench (judge) trial. (Probably not a wise decision on his part...)

Even if Trump manages to weasel out of paying any fines over this, the fact that he is losing business licenses for New York will really hurt. (He does have other business interests in other states/countries, but it seems like his biggest dealings are focused on New York.)

Hopefully seeing Trump lose the fraud case will give Alvin Bragg enough back bone to go ahead and press for criminal charges against Trump.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 05, 2023, 07:01:38 pm
Trump tells Australian billionaire and Mar-a-lago member precise classified details about a U.S. nuclear sub, including the number of warheads it carries and how close it can get to a Russian sub without being detected. I'm not sure I will ever understand how his supporters hear such things and don't care.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on October 05, 2023, 07:18:32 pm
Trump tells Australian billionaire and Mar-a-lago member precise classified details about a U.S. nuclear sub, including the number of warheads it carries and how close it can get to a Russian sub without being detected. I'm not sure I will ever understand how his supporters hear such things and don't care.
I see that you’ve learned nothing from the Steele dossier fiasco, the fake Russian bounties, etc.  You’re so easily distracted by the powerful and elite with any kind of Trump reference.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on October 05, 2023, 08:14:05 pm
Trump accuses Biden of being a time travelling wizard!

From: https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-speech-world-war-ii-biden-obama-b2412922.html
In his latest gaffe-laden speech, Donald Trump appeared to suggest former President Barack Obama was running in 2024 as he warned that “cognitively impaired” President Joe Biden could lead the country into “World War Two” if he wins re-election.

So in his speech, Trump:
- suggested Biden will somehow time-travel back to the 1930s/40s and start World war 2
- said he will be facing Obama in 2024.
- Said He also beat Obama in 2016
This is in addition to all the general stream-of-thought incoherent word salad that Trump generally engages in.

And of course he did all this in a speech where he was claiming Biden was 'cognitively declined'.

If it were some other politician you could suggest those were just regular gaffs that everyone makes from time to time. But the Republicans and MAGAchud have been beating the "Biden is too old" drum for years. Could you imagine how often Fox news would replay the clips if Biden made the same sort of mistakes?


Trump has had Alzheimers for at least 2-3 years. I can't wait until his cognitive decline really starts to accelerate in 2024.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 05, 2023, 09:07:26 pm
I see that you’ve learned nothing from the Steele dossier fiasco, the fake Russian bounties, etc.  You’re so easily distracted by the powerful and elite with any kind of Trump reference.
So you get past it by pretending he's never done anything wrong? But how do you convince yourself you really believe that?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 06, 2023, 08:34:07 pm
"And when do they break with him? Because at some point maybe there needs to be a formal deprogramming of the cult members. But something needs to happen.” - Hillary Clinton
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 11, 2023, 05:33:51 pm
Biden is way too old, but this is obviously way worse.

https://x.com/TomJChicago/status/1712040454022132059?s=20
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on October 12, 2023, 08:23:29 am
Biden is way too old, but this is obviously way worse.

https://x.com/TomJChicago/status/1712040454022132059?s=20

Trump has gone from early onset dementia, to mid-form dementia.  By fall 2024, his cognitive function will be clear to the World. If (God forbid), he is elected again, he may be incapable of not only dealing with World leaders, but of daily chores.  He may even be forced into a nursing home by 2026-27.

Alzheimer's lasts on average, from 7-10 years, before the individual dies from it. If I were a betting man, I would say Trump is in year 4. My mother passed away from Alzheimer's in 2021.  However, she began to notice symptoms of the disease starting in 2011. BY 2013, she was starting to change, but he still had 90% of her cognitive function.  By 2015, we started to notice that she was more forgetful, and had trouble remembering provinces, dates, and events. By 2017, she could not remember the city I lived in, what I did for a living, or who I was seeing, or anything much about me. 

I see the exact same cognitive decline in Trump, as i did my mother.  Trump's dementia will not allow him to become president in 2024.  The American people and the World will see just how much he has declined mentally.  This is the main reason he will not do debates.  He will be exposed to America if he participates.  Trump is a far cry from how he was in 2015-16.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 16, 2023, 09:22:23 am
Trump tells Australian billionaire and Mar-a-lago member precise classified details about a U.S. nuclear sub, including the number of warheads it carries and how close it can get to a Russian sub without being detected. I'm not sure I will ever understand how his supporters hear such things and don't care.
Buttery Males!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 24, 2023, 09:42:28 am
I never expected all these Trump loyalists to flip so easily. Now another former lawyer of his, Jenna Ellis, is pleading guilty and bargaining a reduced sentence in exchange for testimony. After watching her tearful confession and expression of remorse for lying about election fraud, I doubt she would have been so regretful if her lies had worked to overturn the election.

And judging from Trump's recent confusion and slurring of words, he doesn't seem to be taking it all too well. 😆
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on October 24, 2023, 10:25:51 am
I never expected all these Trump loyalists to flip so easily. Now another former lawyer of his, Jenna Ellis, is pleading guilty and bargaining a reduced sentence in exchange for testimony. After watching her tearful confession and expression of remorse for lying about election fraud, I doubt she would have been so regretful if her lies had worked to overturn the election.

And judging from Trump's recent confusion and slurring of words, he doesn't seem to be taking it all too well. 😆

At this point, Trump should retreat to his underground bunker, and blow his brains out just like Hitler did. Do the World a favour at this point.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 24, 2023, 10:58:39 am
I can't see anyone more likely to lose to Biden in 2024 though.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 24, 2023, 11:02:34 am
I never expected all these Trump loyalists to flip so easily. Now another former lawyer of his, Jenna Ellis, is pleading guilty and bargaining a reduced sentence in exchange for testimony.
Remember when some idiot on the forum started complaining that the Georgia election case had "too many" defendants?

And now, here we are, we are still months away from the actual trial, and we've already seen 4 of the defendants plead out. I suspect a lot more will do so when we get closer to the trial.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 24, 2023, 01:10:09 pm
"I was never indicted. You practically never heard the word." - former President Donald Trump
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 24, 2023, 09:09:30 pm
Now there are reports Mark Meadows has flipped and is talking to Jack Smith in exchange for immunity from prosecution. The walls are closing in. lol
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 25, 2023, 06:59:59 am
Realistically though, is anything going to happen to him other than maybe him bowing out of the presidential race?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 25, 2023, 09:12:13 am
It's more realistic that he goes to jail than he bows out of the presidential race
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on October 25, 2023, 08:59:27 pm
I can't see anyone more likely to lose to Biden in 2024 though.

Fair point but Biden really needs to retire. He came, got the job done, sent Donnie home, and promised he wouldn't run again.

McCain was deemed too old and he was only 71.

 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on October 25, 2023, 10:30:16 pm
You know things have gone too far when the ACLU is siding with Trump.  You people hate Trump more than you support the constitution.  You’ll shred people’s rights and freedoms if it means furthering your witch hunt.  But he’s the threat to democracy right?  You people need to look in the mirror.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on October 25, 2023, 11:07:37 pm
You know things have gone too far when the ACLU is siding with Trump.  You people hate Trump more than you support the constitution.  You’ll shred people’s rights and freedoms if it means furthering your witch hunt.  But he’s the threat to democracy right?  You people need to look in the mirror.

(Attachment Link)

The ACLU has sided with Neo-Nazi groups in the past, even though it's pretty obvious that fascist group would be the first to target the ACLU if they ever became powerful enough.  The ACLU has a history of fighting to uphold the constitutional rights of all groups, regardless of political affiliation.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 26, 2023, 03:32:42 am
Trump's dementia will not allow him to become president in 2024.  The American people and the World will see just how much he has declined mentally.
I wish that were true.

But, in 2016 almost half the American electorate voted for a man who ran the scam "Trump University" because they believed "Hillary was crooked". They voted for a man who had multiple bankruptcies because they thought he was a great businessman. They voted for a man who has a gold toilet because they didn't want to elect an "elitist" like Clinton.

The republican party relies on "Low information" voters. (Or, as Trump once stated: "I love the poorly educated"). The type that are easy to fool. Don't assume that any of them will recognize that there is a problem with Trump, and even if they do, that they won't find a way to justify their vote for him anyways. Trump could finish the 2024 election campaign with late stage dementia, wearing an adult diaper and needing a nurse to feed him his KFC, and republican voters will still vote for him because "He's wearing AMERICAN diapers!"



Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on October 26, 2023, 03:49:03 am
I wish that were true.

But, in 2016 almost half the American electorate voted for a man who ran the scam "Trump University" because they believed "Hillary was crooked". They voted for a man who had multiple bankruptcies because they thought he was a great businessman. They voted for a man who has a gold toilet because they didn't want to elect an "elitist" like Clinton.

The republican party relies on "Low information" voters. (Or, as Trump once stated: "I love the poorly educated"). The type that are easy to fool. Don't assume that any of them will recognize that there is a problem with Trump, and even if they do, that they won't find a way to justify their vote for him anyways. Trump could finish the 2024 election campaign with late stage dementia, wearing an adult diaper and needing a nurse to feed him his KFC, and republican voters will still vote for him because "He's wearing AMERICAN diapers!"

I'm convinced that the level of apathy, combined with the advent of social media is responsible for Trump's Presidential win. The 2016 presidential campaign (especially the GOP leadership race), felt somewhat like a reality TV show. Trump has the witty comebacks, and best soundbites.  He also had the most charisma out of all the credible presidential candidates.

The problem with the voting base, is many who do not follow politics, are convinced that no matter who they vote for, their predicament will remain the same. So perhaps they voted for Trump, simply due to him being more of an entertaining leader, as opposed to the past 50+ years where the American people had voted for leader, who fell short of many of their campaign promises. Either than, or they bought into Trump's "drain the swamp" nonsense.

In any case, to really observe how much Trump has declined in his cognitive abilities, just watch a video from the 2016 election campaign, and compare it to the "word salad" he spews about his adversaries in 2023.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 26, 2023, 05:32:18 am
The evolution of American Democracy and American Government have rendered the design of the system inadequate.

They need to update the model, and maybe simplify it or add a new aspect of education.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on October 26, 2023, 06:14:28 am
The evolution of American Democracy and American Government have rendered the design of the system inadequate.

They need to update the model, and maybe simplify it or add a new aspect of education.

They need to regulate the internet and overall media again. When Reagan pushed for deregulation in the 80s, nobody expected that most of the American public would be vulnerable to misinformation. Today we have many people in the Government that thrive off misinformation, and it is undermining our democratic institutions.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on October 26, 2023, 06:20:07 am
You know things have gone too far when the ACLU is siding with Trump.  You people hate Trump more than you support the constitution.  You’ll shred people’s rights and freedoms if it means furthering your witch hunt.  But he’s the threat to democracy right?  You people need to look in the mirror.


Attacking the judges and court workers and their families and goading his dimwit base is a very deliberate strategy. Shady is a classic Trumper in that he seeks vicitimhood wherever he can find it and can be manipulated to repeat Trump's message without any critical thought put into it. Shady even fell for the election hoax story, even though it was so obvious they were lying. Think about that. He actually believed the election was fixed by the Democrats. That's some next-level stupidity. And to think Trump did nothing wrong and it's all a witch hunt? How much suspension of reality has to go on in one's brain to really think that? The reality of the stituation really has nothing to do with their position. It's all based on the allure of victimhood. It's like a strange fetish, on par with his lust for humiliation at the hands of Black Dog.

https://x.com/DeadlineWH/status/1717282865220661465?s=20
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 26, 2023, 08:09:22 am
They need to regulate the internet and overall media again. When Reagan pushed for deregulation in the 80s, nobody expected that most of the American public would be vulnerable to misinformation. Today we have many people in the Government that thrive off misinformation, and it is undermining our democratic institutions.

Not that I'm against your idea, but the moral standard for lying has undergone a large change since that time.

Remember the political tv ads of the 1980s were already regarded as extreme though tepid by today's standards.

They either have to redesign the whole system. The revolutionary way and very simple also including tax codes and so on. Or they have to institutionalize intellectually on this strata of people to guide us through the discussion.

Public intellectuals and journalism at both dead and the system has a much complexity as well as back doors to corruption.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on November 05, 2023, 09:48:32 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-JmxSsW8AAICeQ?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 07, 2023, 05:52:37 am
"I did not think he would be this bad." - Mitt Romney
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on November 13, 2023, 11:59:52 am
Donald Trump makes his first Truth Social post since his sister's death — and uses it to launch a truly unhinged attack on Special Counsel Jack Smith instead of mourning.

Trump's sister Maryanne Trump Barry, a former federal judge, was found dead at age 86 inside her Manhattan apartment today. A normal human being would grieve such a loss and refrain from crazed political behaviour for at least a single day out of respect.

But Donald Trump is not a normal human being.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on November 14, 2023, 09:51:01 am
"I did not think he would be this bad." - Mitt Romney
Former republican MegaDonor Peter Thiel said the same thing:

From: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/billionaire-trump-donor-peter-thiel-094201257.html?guccounter=1
Tech investor Peter Thiel, who was a major donor to Donald Trump in 2016 and played a role on Trump’s White House transition team, said he’s not giving money to the former president or anyone else this time around.... things didn’t turn out the way he’d hoped. “There are a lot of things I got wrong,” he acknowledged. “It was crazier than I thought. It was more dangerous than I thought. They couldn’t get the most basic pieces of the government to work.”... Thiel said Trump had called him earlier this year looking for $10 million, similar to what Thiel had given Blake Masters and J.D. Vance for their recent Senate races. Thiel turned him down, according to The Atlantic, and heard later on that Trump had called him a “scumbag.”

I mean how could anyone NOT know that supporting Trump and the rest of the republican party would be a disaster? It was obvious back before the 2016 election that Trump was an incompetent businessman, and a racist con-artist. And the republican party in general subscribes to the concept that "Government does not work, and to prove it we will do everything we can to wreck it!"

At least Trump got one thing right (but for the wrong reason)... Thiel is a scumbag.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on November 14, 2023, 10:09:56 am
\
Former republican MegaDonor Peter Thiel said the same thing:

From: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/billionaire-trump-donor-peter-thiel-094201257.html?guccounter=1
Tech investor Peter Thiel, who was a major donor to Donald Trump in 2016 and played a role on Trump’s White House transition team, said he’s not giving money to the former president or anyone else this time around.... things didn’t turn out the way he’d hoped. “There are a lot of things I got wrong,” he acknowledged. “It was crazier than I thought. It was more dangerous than I thought. They couldn’t get the most basic pieces of the government to work.”... Thiel said Trump had called him earlier this year looking for $10 million, similar to what Thiel had given Blake Masters and J.D. Vance for their recent Senate races. Thiel turned him down, according to The Atlantic, and heard later on that Trump had called him a “scumbag.”

I mean how could anyone NOT know that supporting Trump and the rest of the republican party would be a disaster? It was obvious back before the 2016 election that Trump was an incompetent businessman, and a racist con-artist. And the republican party in general subscribes to the concept that "Government does not work, and to prove it we will do everything we can to wreck it!"

At least Trump got one thing right (but for the wrong reason)... Thiel is a scumbag.

More than that, Thiel is a fascist so I expect a lot of his beef here isn't with the extremism of his candidates, but with the fact they were losers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on November 14, 2023, 12:55:48 pm
Donald Trump makes his first Truth Social post since his sister's death — and uses it to launch a truly unhinged attack on Special Counsel Jack Smith instead of mourning.

Trump's sister Maryanne Trump Barry, a former federal judge, was found dead at age 86 inside her Manhattan apartment today. A normal human being would grieve such a loss and refrain from crazed political behaviour for at least a single day out of respect.

But Donald Trump is not a normal human being.


Trump gives human beings a bad name.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 22, 2023, 11:32:22 am
Trump was reminiscing about the Steele dossier allegations of golden showers involving "four hookers."

But the dossier didn't ever say how many hookers were involved. 😂

https://www.newsweek.com/one-detail-trumps-golden-shower-denial-raises-questions-1845890
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on November 22, 2023, 11:37:06 am
Trump was reminiscing about the Steele dossier allegations of golden showers involving "four hookers."

But the dossier didn't ever say how many hookers were involved. 😂

https://www.newsweek.com/one-detail-trumps-golden-shower-denial-raises-questions-1845890

My "n ot involved in golden showers with four Russian prostitutes" t-shirt has people asking a lot of questions already answered by my shirt.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 22, 2023, 12:49:50 pm
Oh next year is going to suck so badly...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on November 28, 2023, 07:36:34 pm
Liz Cheney recounts in her new book how McCarthy went to visit Trump at Mar-a-lago 3 days after Jan. 6 because Trump wasn't eating and he was worried about him. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on November 28, 2023, 08:57:56 pm
Trump was reminiscing about the Steele dossier allegations of golden showers involving "four hookers."

But the dossier didn't ever say how many hookers were involved. 😂

https://www.newsweek.com/one-detail-trumps-golden-shower-denial-raises-questions-1845890

I guess the big question is if Donald Trump paid for the four prostitutes to urinate on him, or did he urinate on the four prostitutes?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on December 15, 2023, 04:05:50 pm
lmao, eat sh!t Rudy you old bastard.

Rudy Giuliani ordered to pay nearly $150 million in damages in defamation trial (https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/rudy-giuliani-defamation-trial-verdict/index.html)

Quote
A jury has ordered Rudy Giuliani to pay nearly $150 million to two Georgia election workers for the harm caused by defamatory statements he made about them following the 2020 election. 

The judge in the case has already ruled Giuliani spread false information about Wandrea “Shaye” Moss and her mother Ruby Freeman.

Freeman and Moss were awarded more than $16 million each for defamation, $20 million each for emotional distress and $75 million total in punitive damages, stemming from a series of statements Giuliani and others, including former President Donald Trump, made.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on December 15, 2023, 04:18:46 pm
lmao, eat sh!t Rudy you old bastard.

Rudy Giuliani ordered to pay nearly $150 million in damages in defamation trial (https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/rudy-giuliani-defamation-trial-verdict/index.html)

Good.

Rudy has been a drunk for several years, to the point where his oldest daughter wants nothing to do with him.  Now the downward spiral is complete.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on December 19, 2023, 06:02:46 pm
The Colorado Supreme Court has ruled that former President Donald Trump is ineligible for the presidency under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment

He will be removed from the state’s 2024 presidential ballot

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBv95sYWUAA8K4s?format=jpg&name=small)

Christmas has come early!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on December 19, 2023, 07:34:57 pm
Christmas has come early!

For Trump, unfortunately.  The SCOTUS isn't going to go for it, and in the meantime, Trump can double down on the message that he's not anti-democracy, his opponents are.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 19, 2023, 08:19:36 pm
The Colorado Supreme Court has ruled that former President Donald Trump is ineligible for the presidency under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment

He will be removed from the state’s 2024 presidential ballot

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBv95sYWUAA8K4s?format=jpg&name=small)

Christmas has come early!
This will be easily overturned as it doesn’t at all apply.  I wish people that feigned their love of democracy stopped trying to undermine it because they might not like the results.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 19, 2023, 08:20:34 pm
Btw, I say this as someone that doesn’t want Trump to win the nomination.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 20, 2023, 10:53:56 am
This will be easily overturned as it doesn’t at all apply. 
How come? Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

I only ask because I know such answers are beyond your ken. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 20, 2023, 11:03:26 am
How come? Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

I only ask because I know such answers are beyond your ken. 😂
The provision they're relying on was specifically adopted for participants of the civil war.  It's most likely going to be stuck down by the supreme court 9-0.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 20, 2023, 11:15:33 am
That doesn't clarify why it doesn't apply. I agree that the SC will likely overrule, but that's just because they're a paid-off puppet court. That has nothing to do with its actual constitutionality.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 20, 2023, 11:17:45 am
That doesn't clarify why it doesn't apply. I agree that the SC will likely overrule, but that's just because they're a paid-off puppet court. That has nothing to do with its actual constitutionality.
Complete nonsense.  Regardless, it's nice to see you finally admit you're actually anti-Democracy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on December 20, 2023, 11:21:45 am
The provision they're relying on was specifically adopted for participants of the civil war.  It's most likely going to be stuck down by the supreme court 9-0.

It may hav been adopted for that reason but it clearly does not exclusively apply to participants in the Civil War, dummy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 20, 2023, 11:26:53 am
You think that was his argument? Good lord, he's stupider than I thought.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 20, 2023, 11:26:57 am
It may hav been adopted for that reason but it clearly does not exclusively apply to participants in the Civil War, dummy.
There hasn't been an insurrection/rebellion since then.   The is will be overturned 9-0 by the supreme court.  If you support this overreach, you're actually anti-Democracy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on December 20, 2023, 11:30:21 am
There hasn't been an insurrection/rebellion since then.   The is will be overturned 9-0 by the supreme court.

There was a violent insurrection on Jan. 6 that was encouraged by Trump. That it was stupid and doomed to fail does not make it not an insurrection.

I expect it will be overturned but on explicitly partisan lines (6-3).

Quote
If you support this overreach, you're actually anti-Democracy.

Explain how it's overreach.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 20, 2023, 11:31:08 am
It was already ruled to be an insurrection. It makes sense, if you're a halfwit, that enabling insurrections is pro-democracy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 20, 2023, 11:33:30 am
There was a violent insurrection on Jan. 6 that was encouraged by Trump. That it was stupid and doomed to fail does not make it not an insurrection.

I expect it will be overturned but on explicitly partisan lines (6-3).

Explain how it's overreach.
I riot isn't an insurrection.  I can't believe how f**king gullible you people are.  Regardless, has he been convicted of any of this so called insurrection and encouragement?  F**k off with your bullsh*t.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 20, 2023, 11:35:14 am
It was already ruled to be an insurrection.
Ruled by who?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on December 20, 2023, 11:44:52 am
I riot isn't an insurrection.

The difference between a riot and insurrection is the latter is intended to overthrow the government or authority, which is exactly what the Jan. 6 dipshits were trying to do.

Quote
I can't believe how f**king gullible you people are.

Lol you're the guy who said Ashli Babbitt was merked for just walking around the Capitol building, who said no one was armed, who claimed people who were simply trespassing were charged with greater crimes, you're dumb as hell!

Quote
Regardless, has he been convicted of any of this so called insurrection and encouragement?  F**k off with your bullsh*t.

The 14th Amendment doesn't say anything about being convicted, moron.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 20, 2023, 11:51:10 am
Ruled by who?
"After a week-long hearing in November, District Judge Sarah B. Wallace found that Trump had "engaged in insurrection" by inciting the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 20, 2023, 12:17:52 pm
"After a week-long hearing in November, District Judge Sarah B. Wallace found that Trump had "engaged in insurrection" by inciting the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol."
So any district judge can decide something like that?  Was there even a trial?  😂😂😂
Good ol’police state Bubber!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 20, 2023, 12:20:05 pm
Judges decide things. That's the opposite of a police state
Good lord you're stupid.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 20, 2023, 12:23:58 pm
I believe it had something to do with this quote: "Just say that the election was corrupt + leave the rest to me".

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/30/politics/trump-election-justice/index.html

Or maybe the alternate electors that were set up.
Or maybe the threat to the election worker that they needed to "find 11780 votes".

Seems pretty cut and dry to me
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 20, 2023, 12:42:59 pm
Judges decide things. That's the opposite of a police state
Good lord you're stupid.
When was the trial? 😂😂😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 20, 2023, 12:43:31 pm
I believe it had something to do with this quote: "Just say that the election was corrupt + leave the rest to me".

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/30/politics/trump-election-justice/index.html

Or maybe the alternate electors that were set up.
Or maybe the threat to the election worker that they needed to "find 11780 votes".

Seems pretty cut and dry to me
When was the trial? 😂😂😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on December 20, 2023, 12:45:14 pm
The provision they're relying on was specifically adopted for participants of the civil war.  It's most likely going to be stuck down by the supreme court 9-0.

now do the U.S. 2nd amendment... specifically adopted for...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 20, 2023, 12:52:13 pm
When was the trial? 😂😂😂
Can't you read? There was a hearing in November where evidence was presented. There, a judge concluded, based on overwhelming evidence, he attempted insurrection. You can't dispute the evidence so all you can do is attack the western judicial system, like the good Russian Patriot you are.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 20, 2023, 01:00:03 pm
Can't you read? There was a hearing in November where evidence was presented. There, a judge concluded, based on overwhelming evidence, he attempted insurrection. You can't dispute the evidence so all you can do is attack the western judicial system, like the good Russian Patriot you are.
A hearing isn’t a trial.  Was a defence allowed?   Speaking of Russia, Putin would love a nice show trial with no defence like the one you think determined an insurrection.  You’re a f**king idiot.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 20, 2023, 01:05:30 pm
If you weren't so stupid, you could read about it yourself and not have to ask basic questions. Of course a defence is allowed.

https://www.ualrpublicradio.org/npr-news/2023-11-17/a-colorado-judge-finds-trump-engaged-in-insurrection-but-keeps-him-on-the-ballot
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 20, 2023, 03:48:44 pm
If you weren't so stupid, you could read about it yourself and not have to ask basic questions. Of course a defence is allowed.

https://www.ualrpublicradio.org/npr-news/2023-11-17/a-colorado-judge-finds-trump-engaged-in-insurrection-but-keeps-him-on-the-ballot
You literally are as dumb as bricks.  No it wasn't a trial, it was a hearing that was shopped around by a left-leaning group, to multiple states, and multiple district judges all over the country.  They were denied dozens of times, but finally found a judge that would side with them.  And you think this is appropriate to keep somebody off the ballot.  Don't ever say that you support democracy ever again.  You're a complete fraud.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 20, 2023, 05:47:14 pm
I said it was a hearing. You just didn't know the difference when you read that post.

The judge you automatically accuse of bias because she accepted cut-and-dry evidence of insurrection (which you absolutely are incapable of refuting in any way) also ruled that didn't justify removing him from the ballot. Why didn't you mention that when you accused her of bias?

I support the Constitution, which explicitly denies insurrectionists' eligibility for public office. Why do you hate the Constitution and try to portray it as flawed and undemocratic?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on December 20, 2023, 08:40:18 pm
Don't ever say that you support democracy ever again.  You're a complete fraud.

Wait till you find out how much SCOTUS has subverted democracy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 20, 2023, 09:46:23 pm
The provision they're relying on was specifically adopted for participants of the civil war.  It's most likely going to be stuck down by the supreme court 9-0.

So, you don't think that applies to anyone in the future who encourages an insurrection?  The insurrection clause is only one of five parts of  the amendment, so I guess you would have to throw out the other four as well.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 21, 2023, 09:07:18 am
So, you don't think that applies to anyone in the future who encourages an insurrection?  The insurrection clause is only one of five parts of  the amendment, so I guess you would have to throw out the other four as well.
There is certainly nothing written in the amendment that specifically mentions that it applies only to those involved in the 1800s civil war. A strict reading certainly implies that it also covers those who engaged in insurrection in the 21st century too.

Maybe the writers of the amendment had notes scribbled in the margin that say "This only applies to civil war people, and not some racist con-artist who tries to overthrow the government by supporting a terrorist attack in the 21st century", but it somehow got cut off when they sent it to the printers.

Or maybe they added that note to the back of the constitution. Has anyone tried flipping it over to see if there is anything written on the back?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 21, 2023, 04:10:08 pm
Lots of fascists in this forum finally coming out of the closet and supporting the removal of somebody from a ballot that hasn’t been convicted of any crime, simply because they don’t like him.  Yikes, what a terrible precedent this sends.

This is just another example of the Trump haters, willing to violate every norm, burn down every aspect of the rule of law, and civil society in order to “get” Trump.  This is no different than when the FBI falsified evidence in order to get secret FISA warrants on several Trump campaign officials.  You people don’t care at all about what laws and rules are broken when it comes to going after Trump.  You’re willing to destroy democracy in order to “save” it.  And you have to regard to the damage you’re causing while doing it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on December 21, 2023, 04:13:23 pm
Lots of fascists in this forum finally coming out of the closet and supporting the removal of somebody from a ballot that hasn’t been convicted of any crime, simply because they don’t like him.  Yikes, what a terrible precedent this sends.

This is just another example of the Trump haters, willing to violate every norm, burn down every aspect of the rule of law, and civil society in order to “get” Trump.  This is no different than when the FBI falsified evidence in order to get secret FISA warrants on several Trump campaign officials.  You people don’t care at all about what laws and rules are broken when it comes to going after Trump.  You’re willing to destroy democracy in order to “save” it.  And you have to regard to the damage you’re causing while doing it.

I posted it elsewhere, but I'll post it again here in case you didn't see it.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/12/21/luttig-14th-amendment-trump-00132792

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 21, 2023, 04:14:47 pm
Republicans will even call the Constitution fascist now. Hilarious!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 21, 2023, 04:23:55 pm
Republicans will even call the Constitution fascist now. Hilarious!
This decision has nothing to do with the constitution.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 21, 2023, 04:27:07 pm
I posted it elsewhere, but I'll post it again here in case you didn't see it.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/12/21/luttig-14th-amendment-trump-00132792
I’ll reference the Colorado Supreme Court chief justices’ dissenting opinion.  “An absence of a criminal conviction for an insurrection related offence”.  You people want to ban someone for running for office based on no criminal convictions related to anything in the 14th amendment.  That’s not how the law works, and you’re destroying the credibility of everything based on your Trump obsession.  Please stop before it’s too late.  You’re playing with fire.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest18 on December 21, 2023, 04:34:35 pm
A judge has already decided he is an insurrectionist. You can't refute any of the overwhelming evidence he is an insurrectionist. So all you can do is call the Constitution fascist.
 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on December 21, 2023, 04:36:19 pm
I’ll reference the Colorado Supreme Court chief justices’ dissenting opinion.  “An absence of a criminal conviction for an insurrection related offence”.  You people want to ban someone for running for office based on no criminal convictions related to anything in the 14th amendment.  That’s not how the law works, and you’re destroying the credibility of everything based on your Trump obsession.  Please stop before it’s too late.  You’re playing with fire.

Okay, I'll reference the scholar in the article I posted.

The Colorado Supreme Court decision was over 120 pages, and I read every word of every page, and I understood every single word because I’ve studied the issue. The Colorado Supreme Court addressed every single state law question and every single federal constitutional question as to the meaning and interpretation of the 14th Amendment. I know for a fact that it resolved each and every one of those questions as required not just under state law, but, more importantly, under federal constitutional law. That’s why I said that the opinion is unassailable in every respect. It is a masterful judicial opinion, and based on the objective law of the 14th, I believe that the Supreme Court should — and I believe it will — affirm the Colorado Supreme Court if given the opportunity.

I think he knows more than we do about the issue, and given the CSC ruling went against the opinion of its chief justice, I'm going to suggest he knows more about the issue than that worthy does too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 22, 2023, 03:40:33 pm
Looks like no expidited supreme court ruling...

From: https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/22/politics/supreme-court-trump-immunity-jack-smith
The Supreme Court on Friday rejected a request by special counsel Jack Smith to fast-track arguments on whether Donald Trump has any immunity from federal prosecution for alleged crimes he committed while in office – a move that will likely delay his trial.... An expedited review of the issue is already underway at the DC Circuit...

So there are a couple of possibilities here...
- The appeals court rules quickly (as we expect) and the supreme court refuses to take the case. Result: Trial can probably go on as expected (or only have a short delay)

- The appeals court rules, the supreme court takes the case (4 of the 9 judges have to agree) and does so on an expedited schedule. Any trial will go forward late summer/early fall

- The appeals court rules, the supreme court takes the case, but they delay releasing their decision until late spring. Any trial is pushed back until after the election


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 22, 2023, 04:10:24 pm
Okay, I'll reference the scholar in the article I posted.

The Colorado Supreme Court decision was over 120 pages, and I read every word of every page, and I understood every single word because I’ve studied the issue. The Colorado Supreme Court addressed every single state law question and every single federal constitutional question as to the meaning and interpretation of the 14th Amendment. I know for a fact that it resolved each and every one of those questions as required not just under state law, but, more importantly, under federal constitutional law. That’s why I said that the opinion is unassailable in every respect. It is a masterful judicial opinion, and based on the objective law of the 14th, I believe that the Supreme Court should — and I believe it will — affirm the Colorado Supreme Court if given the opportunity.

I think he knows more than we do about the issue, and given the CSC ruling went against the opinion of its chief justice, I'm going to suggest he knows more about the issue than that worthy does too.
There’s absolutely no chance the Supreme Court is going to uphold the Colorado decision.  Trump hasn’t been convicted of anything related to the 14th Amendment that the lower court used in what wasn’t a trial but an evidentiary hearing to make their decision.  Due process still matters.  So does innocent until guilty.  You cannot brush these things aside simply because you don’t like Trump.  It’s completely unconstitutional.  You guys really should be ashamed of yourselves for so easily willing to bastardize the justice system in order to invalidate Trump.  That’s banana republic type behaviour.
The Supreme Court will probably rule 9-0.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: guest7 on December 22, 2023, 06:43:55 pm
There’s absolutely no chance the Supreme Court is going to uphold the Colorado decision.  Trump hasn’t been convicted of anything related to the 14th Amendment that the lower court used in what wasn’t a trial but an evidentiary hearing to make their decision.  Due process still matters.  So does innocent until guilty.  You cannot brush these things aside simply because you don’t like Trump.  It’s completely unconstitutional.  You guys really should be ashamed of yourselves for so easily willing to bastardize the justice system in order to invalidate Trump.  That’s banana republic type behaviour.
The Supreme Court will probably rule 9-0.

Yeah, I said the SCOTUS probably won't go for it.  But that has nothing to do with the Constitution.  It has more to do with bread, and which side it's buttered on.  Hell, one of them is as crooked as a Shepherd's Hook with a magachud wingnut for a wife.  That he's still there shows how much respect they have for actual laws.

But you think there's another reason, right? 

Why do you imagine you know more about the US Constitution than the person whose quote I posted?

Why do you imagine there is any requirement for a conviction?

How come you are so without shame that you actually used the words "Banana Republic" in defense of Donald Trump?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 22, 2023, 08:00:51 pm
Looks like no expidited supreme court ruling...

From: https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/22/politics/supreme-court-trump-immunity-jack-smith
The Supreme Court on Friday rejected a request by special counsel Jack Smith to fast-track arguments on whether Donald Trump has any immunity from federal prosecution for alleged crimes he committed while in office – a move that will likely delay his trial.... An expedited review of the issue is already underway at the DC Circuit...

So there are a couple of possibilities here...
- The appeals court rules quickly (as we expect) and the supreme court refuses to take the case. Result: Trial can probably go on as expected (or only have a short delay)

- The appeals court rules, the supreme court takes the case (4 of the 9 judges have to agree) and does so on an expedited schedule. Any trial will go forward late summer/early fall

- The appeals court rules, the supreme court takes the case, but they delay releasing their decision until late spring. Any trial is pushed back until after the election


Not surprising, the best way they can support Trump is to do nothing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 25, 2023, 04:36:14 pm
Not surprising, the best way they can support Trump is to do nothing.
Moving to an expedited trial takes away a layer of appeal process from the defendant, in this case Trump.  I get that you hate Trump, but it’s unwise to ignore the way the criminal justice system is suppose to work just because you don’t like somebody.  It’s extremely childish and shortsighted.  That’s how banana republics work.  Congratulations.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 25, 2023, 04:38:19 pm
Bringing us closer and closer to what Russia is, thanks to the Trump haters.  Congratulations to all of you.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 25, 2023, 07:03:55 pm
Moving to an expedited trial takes away a layer of appeal process from the defendant, in this case Trump.  I get that you hate Trump, but it’s unwise to ignore the way the criminal justice system is suppose to work just because you don’t like somebody.  It’s extremely childish and shortsighted.  That’s how banana republics work.  Congratulations.

It will be appealed all the way to the Supremes regardless of who wins in the lower courts, all this does is allow Trump to keep delaying.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 25, 2023, 10:47:28 pm
Quote
Trump hasn’t been convicted of anything

What makes you think there needs to be a conviction for the amendment to apply?

https://theconversation.com/why-14th-amendment-bars-trump-from-office-a-constitutional-law-scholar-explains-principle-behind-colorado-supreme-court-ruling-219763
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 26, 2023, 01:21:13 am
Bringing us closer and closer to what Russia is, thanks to the Trump haters.  Congratulations to all of you.

(Attachment Link)

Why was she blocked from running?  Did she illegally pressure government officials to overturn valid election results so she could stay in power longer and spread a fake conspiracy theory about a "stolen election" that every court shot down which resulted in illegal riots at the federal legislature during the vote confirmation like Trump did?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 26, 2023, 01:21:51 am
Moving to an expedited trial takes away a layer of appeal process from the defendant, in this case Trump.

Cite please.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 27, 2023, 09:22:04 am
Michigan Supreme Court rejects ‘insurrectionist ban’ case and keeps Trump on 2024 primary ballot
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/12/27/politics/michigan-supreme-court-rejects-insurrectionist-ban-case-and-keeps-trump-on-2024-primary-ballot/index.html
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 27, 2023, 09:24:57 am
Cite please.
You need a cite for this?  That the appeals court is a lower court?  And that evidence can be added during that process?  And that a ruling would be made, and another dissenting opinion that would all be part of the case brought before the Supreme Court?  Stop trying to do away with the proper court process just because you hate Trump.  It’s shortsighted and dangerous.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 27, 2023, 10:10:28 am
Anti Trump voters in the Republican primary appear to be moving to Nikki Haley rather than Meatball Ron. If she has a strong showing in New Hampshire, it could establish her as the best chance to beat Trump and pull more votes from Meatball Ron, Christie, and Vivek.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 27, 2023, 10:22:45 am
Anti Trump voters in the Republican primary appear to be moving to Nikki Haley rather than Meatball Ron. If she has a strong showing in New Hampshire, it could establish her as the best chance to beat Trump and pull more votes from Meatball Ron, Christie, and Vivek.

 -k
I think Ron will win Iowa and Nikki will win New Hampshire.  I think that either one of them would easily beat Demented Joe.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: queenmandy85 on December 28, 2023, 02:33:07 pm
Anti Trump voters in the Republican primary appear to be moving to Nikki Haley rather than Meatball Ron. If she has a strong showing in New Hampshire, it could establish her as the best chance to beat Trump and pull more votes from Meatball Ron, Christie, and Vivek.

 -k
Unfortunately, Ambassador Haley shot herself in the foot last night when someone asked her to state the cause of the civil war. She refused to say slavery. She just drop-kicked President Trump back into the Whitehouse. I thought she would be a good candidate before that, but not now.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 28, 2023, 02:45:42 pm
Unfortunately, Ambassador Haley shot herself in the foot last night when someone asked her to state the cause of the civil war. She refused to say slavery. She just drop-kicked President Trump back into the Whitehouse. I thought she would be a good candidate before that, but not now.
Completely irrelevant.  Slavery was one of a few issues anyways.  Who cares?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on December 28, 2023, 03:30:30 pm
The families of former slaves, for starters.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 28, 2023, 03:49:04 pm
The families of former slaves, for starters.

Every historian who has ever written on the subject for another.  They think it was relevant.  LOL
Not Shiddy though….
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 28, 2023, 03:51:19 pm
The families of former slaves, for starters.
Not if they're educated at all, and actually know a bit of the history.  Regardless, completely irrelevant today.  I'd think they'd care more about the current president eulogizing a former klansman a few years ago.  Literally praised him as a great human being.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 28, 2023, 05:32:15 pm
Unfortunately, Ambassador Haley shot herself in the foot last night when someone asked her to state the cause of the civil war. She refused to say slavery.
It says a lot about the quality of the Republican party that Haley is considered a "moderate".

Here is a candidate who 1) worked for the Trump administration, 2) defended the confederate flag (calling it a symbol of 'sacrifice'), 3) said she would still support a racist con-artist if he were to become the republican nominee, and now 4) is unable to give the simple answer "the civil war was about slavery". (I know the racists will like to claim it was a "states rights" or "freedom" thing, but in reality the only "state right" they were really interested in was the right to own slaves.)

And that's a "moderate" in republican politics.
Quote
She just drop-kicked President Trump back into the Whitehouse.
Debatable.

To be honest I don't think most of the republican primary candidates expect to be able to "defeat" Stubby McBonespurs. But I think they are all jockeying for position just in case something happens to Trump. (Dies of a cheezburger induced heart attack, flees to russia to be Putin's personal maid, etc....) That way, if Trump can't be the republican candidate, she can claim "I'm the most popular of those remaining. Make me the nominee"
 
Quote
I thought she would be a good candidate before that, but not now.
I admit, she is marginally better than Trump. But that's like saying hemorrhoids are marginally better than cancer. You probably don't want to have either one.

In my opinion, the rot in the republican party is deep. The party either needs to be totally gutted or destroyed and replaced by a more responsible party, and to do that the republicans need to lose elections for the next decade. Simply replacing the leader (and giving the party a lifeline in an attempt to get power) will allow problems to fester.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 28, 2023, 05:42:57 pm
Re: Importance of knowing Civil war was about Slavery...
Every historian who has ever written on the subject for another.  They think it was relevant.  LOL
Just because South Carolina (the state that Haley was governor for) stated when they declared its secession  that they were doing so because of "an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding states to the institution of slavery"? I mean, clearly that is so vague  that it could mean just about anything.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Carolina_Declaration_of_Secession
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 28, 2023, 05:55:41 pm
I just learned that Nikki Haley isn't white and that both her parents are Sikh Punjabi immigrants.  Her birth name was Nimarata Nikki Randhawa.  That's pretty cool.  Here's a pic of her and her family when she was a kid:

https://www.politico.com/interactives/uploads/image-service/2021/2/10/ebc75b53d9-2000.jpg

https://www.politico.com/interactives/2021/magazine-nikki-haleys-choice/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 28, 2023, 05:57:36 pm
Haley is all over the place:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikki_Haley#Interaction_with_Donald_Trump
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on December 28, 2023, 09:51:52 pm
Completely irrelevant.  Slavery was one of a few issues anyways.  Who cares?

It was the number one issue by far.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 29, 2023, 10:26:00 am
Re: Slavery as the cause of the American civil war...
It was the number one issue by far.
Not only was it the number one issue, but it also impacted all the other issues.

One of the common arguments by racists is that it was a "states rights" issue. Which is true... it was a 'states rights' issue to allow slavery.

How about "It was economics"... yeah, the southern states wanted an economy based on slavery.

Or "The north wasn't fulfilling its role"... yeah, the role that the south was upset with was because northern states weren't returning the slaves that had escaped.

I suspect if you dig down into any of the "alternative" reasons for the civil war that racists like to push, you will eventually hit the issue of slavery.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 29, 2023, 03:09:07 pm
You know there’s a problem when you’ve lost CNN.

[attachimg=1]
https://x.com/alx/status/1740593989470797986?s=20
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 29, 2023, 03:28:35 pm
It was the number one issue by far.
”If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that.”
-Abraham Lincoln, August 22nd, 1862

Regardless, this is major thread drift and should be discussed elsewhere.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on December 29, 2023, 03:29:59 pm
Wannabe doxer continues to seek work as a mod. 😂

You know there's a problem when your candidate has been charged with insurrection.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 29, 2023, 03:32:47 pm
Wannabe doxer continues to seek work as a mod. 😂

You know there's a problem when your candidate has been charged with insurrection.
Has he been charged?  How about convicted?  Is being innocent until proven guilty still a thing today?  Or does that only apply to people that we like or at least don’t hate too much?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on December 29, 2023, 03:42:42 pm
Yes, he's been charged. Were you aware that people who have been charged with a crime can even be imprisoned before their trial "proves them guilty"?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 29, 2023, 05:33:30 pm
Yes, he's been charged. Were you aware that people who have been charged with a crime can even be imprisoned before their trial "proves them guilty"?
When did the federal government charge him with that?  Has he been convicted yet?  Does innocent until proven guilty still apply to people we despise?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on December 29, 2023, 05:41:50 pm
So you weren't aware that people are often imprisoned just based on charges before they have been convicted?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 29, 2023, 05:50:15 pm
So you weren't aware that people are often imprisoned just based on charges before they have been convicted?
No that doesn’t happen often.   When were the charges filed?  By whom?  Why wasn’t Trump imprisoned before trial?  Does innocent until proven guilty still apply to people we despise?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 29, 2023, 05:55:24 pm
This sums up the Maine “ruling” perfectly.  We must destroy democracy and the rule of law in order to protect it.  Anyone that supports this is a straight up fascist.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on December 29, 2023, 06:03:49 pm
No that doesn’t happen often.   When were the charges filed?  By whom?  Why wasn’t Trump imprisoned before trial?  Does innocent until proven guilty still apply to people we despise?
Have you ever heard of "bail" and of people not being able to get it?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 29, 2023, 06:45:36 pm
Have you ever heard of "bail" and of people not being able to get it?
Yes.  Now when did he get charged?  By whom?  When?  Does innocent until proven guilty still apply, to people that we despise?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 29, 2023, 07:11:02 pm
This sums up the Maine “ruling” perfectly.  We must destroy democracy and the rule of law in order to protect it.  Anyone that supports this is a straight up fascist.

Trump is the fascist here.  He did incite an insurrection.  He went up and just started spouting lies again to get the angry and armed mob whipped up in a frenzy.  He should be in jail and hopefully will be after all the charges against him go through the courts.

States should do everything in their power to stop him from running again.  He's a great danger to the United States of America and an enemy of the Constitution.  He broke his oath big-time, he's done.  Stop whining about it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on December 29, 2023, 07:14:06 pm
Yes.  Now when did he get charged?  By whom?  When?  Does innocent until proven guilty still apply, to people that we despise?

Really? It's like you live in a little right-wing blogosphere bubble and don't know what's going on in the world. Let's start with Georgia.

"An Atlanta-based grand jury on August 14 indicted Trump and 18 others on state charges stemming from their alleged efforts to overturn the former president’s 2020 electoral defeat. Four people have pleaded guilty."
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 29, 2023, 07:14:40 pm
Yes.  Now when did he get charged?  By whom?  When?  Does innocent until proven guilty still apply, to people that we despise?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61084161
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 29, 2023, 07:18:28 pm
Don't worry Shady, the Trump campaign already appealed the decision and it will go to the courts to decide.  I agree politicians ultimately shouldn't be deciding these things.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on December 30, 2023, 11:34:52 am
So far he's been charged with 91 crimes, including insurrection. Republicans used to be opposed to lenient bail provisions. Now they argue that being charged with a crime means nothing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 30, 2023, 12:37:05 pm
So far he's been charged with 91 crimes, including insurrection. Republicans used to be opposed to lenient bail provisions. Now they argue that being charged with a crime means nothing.
When was he charged with “insurrection”?  By whom? 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on December 30, 2023, 12:39:44 pm
So far he's been charged with 91 crimes, including insurrection. Republicans used to be opposed to lenient bail provisions. Now they argue that being charged with a crime means nothing.
I have no problem with removing politicians from ballots if they’re convicted in a court of law of an offence that would preclude them from running.  My issue is when it’s done before any convictions, because it sets a terrible precedent.  Already there are some states that are trying to take Biden off the ballot in similar ways.  It’s wrong either way. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on December 30, 2023, 12:49:55 pm
When was he charged with “insurrection”?  By whom?
See "Conspiracy to defraud the United States."

Being charged with a crime requires a case. There are evidentiary requirements before an indictment can proceed. That's why people can be jailed based on charges. It's a worse precedent to allow someone charged with such a crime to forgo the Constitution and appear on the ballot.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 30, 2023, 02:16:00 pm
I have no problem with removing politicians from ballots if they’re convicted in a court of law of an offence that would preclude them from running.  My issue is when it’s done before any convictions, because it sets a terrible precedent.  Already there are some states that are trying to take Biden off the ballot in similar ways.  It’s wrong either way.

Trump made every effort he could to overturn valid election results and wouldn't stop lying about it to the point of going near the Capitol on the afternoon the election was going to be confirmed and whipping up a crowd of armed sheep to the point of them starting a riot.

They need to try absolutely everything they can to prevent this guy from getting a chance to be in the White House again because he's a threat to the republic, even if the attempts ultimately fail in court.  Stop defending the guy and being his useful idiot
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 01, 2024, 09:10:22 pm
See "Conspiracy to defraud the United States."

Being charged with a crime requires a case. There are evidentiary requirements before an indictment can proceed. That's why people can be jailed based on charges. It's a worse precedent to allow someone charged with such a crime to forgo the Constitution and appear on the ballot.
One of the things that seems to  be overlooked is the fact that, according to the 14th amendment, a person does not need to be convicted of any crime against the U.S. in order to be made ineligible.

The relevant text of the 14th amendment is as follows:

...No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.

Nowhere in there does it mention that a person needs to have been convicted (or even charged) with insurrection, only that they cannot have "Engaged" in it.

Now of course, in an free and open society, you do need a way to determine who has "engaged" in insurrection. (Otherwise you would get republicans trying to ban Biden from the ballot for eating icecream the wrong way.) The most obvious way to determine it is "who has been indicted/convicted". But a strict reading of the constitution does not limit that as the only way. A court ruling (as happened in Colorado, after the Trump side was allowed to present a defense) should be enough to say "Yeah, Trump engaged in insurrection".

Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that the Colorado ruling will stand. (It was a majority ruling that removed Trump, but there were dissenters.) It could get overturned on a technicality. Or the supreme court could decide to hear the case, temporarily issue an injunction that forces Colorado to leave trump on the ballot, and then not rule on it until after the 2024 election (at which case they will declare it mot). Given the corruption on the U.S. supreme court, there is no guarantee which way they will rule, regardless of what the law says.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 02, 2024, 11:34:37 am
a New Years message from Trump... he claims he was doing his duty - how can that be insurrection! And... video (https://i.imgur.com/i6an3W9.mp4): New Years cele @ Mar-a-Lago

(https://i.imgur.com/hJpn5An.png)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 02, 2024, 02:49:10 pm
video[/url]: New Years cele @ Mar-a-Lago[/b]
 

Don't ever do that to me again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 02, 2024, 11:23:26 pm
video (https://i.imgur.com/i6an3W9.mp4): New Years cele @ Mar-a-Lago
To anyone who hasn't watched it yet... it is a link to a video of some singer (unknown? I certainly don't recognize him) singing the song 'God Bless the USA' while Trump stands there swaying to the music.

Well, it could be worse; Trump could be humping an American flag as the music plays.

That song has been around since around the 1980s, originally performed by country singer Lee Greenwood. (Greenwood has played at the inauguration of other republican presidents, but he seems to have gone all in on supporting Trump. Which is a shame... I used to like his stuff. Maybe knowing that his song was performed by a discount Guy Fieri clone might change his mind about supporting Trump.


Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 03, 2024, 10:06:06 am
Don't ever do that to me again.

mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!!!

apparently stalwart Trump supporter, (50+ year old) "Kid" Rock was unavailable.

video (https://i.imgur.com/qaRTmMm.mp4): here Michael, let the waldo redeem himself!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 03, 2024, 10:59:44 am
mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!!!

apparently stalwart Trump supporter, (50+ year old) "Kid" Rock was unavailable.

video (https://i.imgur.com/qaRTmMm.mp4): here Michael, let the waldo redeem himself!

Better
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 04, 2024, 09:20:49 am
Turns out Virginia Guifre was a locker room attendant at the Mar-a-lago spa when she was 17. Classy!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 04, 2024, 10:30:07 am
New documents reveal Trump got $8 million from foreign governments while he was in office.
Makes sense then that they would be so outraged by Hunter Biden actually doing a job while unelected.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: kimmy on January 04, 2024, 01:53:56 pm
Unfortunately, Ambassador Haley shot herself in the foot last night when someone asked her to state the cause of the civil war. She refused to say slavery. She just drop-kicked President Trump back into the Whitehouse. I thought she would be a good candidate before that, but not now.

I certainly agree that Gov Haley handled the question badly.  I have to ask, though, why was anybody asking her about the Civil War at a town hall in 2023?    Because they were looking for a "gotcha". Hoping she says something either too woke or not woke enough or fumbles the question badly enough to get a headline out of it.

Here's Vivek Ramaswamy responding to a similar question from a WaPo reporter ("do you condemn white supremacy and white nationalism?") and calling her out for it.

https://twitter.com/Chris_Carapezza/status/1742394822579650892


I think this is why Pierre Poilievre's apple-munching beatdown of that hapless idiot appealed to so many people. People are fairly tired of this kind of bullshit.  I don't know if Haley's fumble of the Civil War question will cost her in the polls, but I do expect that Ramaswamy will get a boost from this clip.

 -k
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 04, 2024, 02:09:05 pm
I think politicians should still be asked tough questions regardless of what party they belong to. It shows us where they're coming from, even if that makes their fellow party members uncomfortable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 04, 2024, 02:11:06 pm
I think politicians should still be asked tough questions regardless of what party they belong to. It shows us where they're coming from, even if that makes their fellow party members uncomfortable.
Tough questions are good.  Leading, partisan questions are not.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 04, 2024, 07:28:35 pm
I certainly agree that Gov Haley handled the question badly.  I have to ask, though, why was anybody asking her about the Civil War at a town hall in 2023?    Because they were looking for a "gotcha". Hoping she says something either too woke or not woke enough or fumbles the question badly enough to get a headline out of it.
The problem is, there is such a straight-forward, clear cut answer to the question (slavery was the only significant cause of the civil war) that you couldn't really be "too woke" by answering that question. (Its not like they asked about reparations or anything like that).

Now, it was a "gotcha" question in the fact that by answering it truthfully she might have alienated racists within her party. But it was still a relevant question because I think voters deserved the right to know how the candidates would deal with minority issues, and a failure to say "slavery" was a reminder that she is a little too comfortable with the racists who try to justify the civil war over "states rights" or other similar (false) arguments.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 04, 2024, 07:35:38 pm
Tough questions are good.  Leading, partisan questions are not.
The fact you think "What caused the Civil War?" is a partisan question says all we need to know.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 04, 2024, 07:43:54 pm
I think Vivek's response is silly.  Just answer the question.  I think it's fine to ask these very direct questions like this because you get to see if the candidate is going to dodge it in order not to alienate the racist portion of the GOP base whose votes these GOP candidates need to win the nomination.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 05, 2024, 10:26:01 am
God made Trump

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/trump-shares-messianic-video-about-god-sending-him-to-save-world/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 05, 2024, 10:47:30 am
Religious people are almost as easy to manipulate as some of the halfwits on this forum.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 05, 2024, 04:24:56 pm
Trump attorney Alina Habba says Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh will “step up” and rule in favour of Trump because he “fought for” him.
They're not even trying to hide their corruption anymore.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on January 05, 2024, 04:28:41 pm
I think Vivek's response is silly.  Just answer the question.  I think it's fine to ask these very direct questions like this because you get to see if the candidate is going to dodge it in order not to alienate the racist portion of the GOP base whose votes these GOP candidates need to win the nomination.

Vivek is irrelevant. His polling numbers ahve dropped below 4%.

There has never been a candidate that Americans have wanted to punch in the face more than Vivek.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on January 05, 2024, 04:30:19 pm
Trump attorney Alina Habba says Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh will “step up” and rule in favour of Trump because he “fought for” him.
They're not even trying to hide their corruption anymore.

Bubber, it was sad days for America when Trump appointed Kavanaugh and Barrett to the Supreme Court.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 05, 2024, 04:30:31 pm
Vivek is irrelevant. His polling numbers ahve dropped below 4%.

There has never been a candidate that Americans have wanted to punch in the face more than Vivek.

(https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_1130,w_2010,x_1593,y_283/dpr_1.5/c_limit,w_608/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1682346292/2023-04-24T042657Z_1472716845_RC2RK0AME892_RTRMADP_3_USA-ELECTION-DESANTIS-JAPAN_erkbcb)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on January 05, 2024, 04:35:29 pm
(https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_1130,w_2010,x_1593,y_283/dpr_1.5/c_limit,w_608/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1682346292/2023-04-24T042657Z_1472716845_RC2RK0AME892_RTRMADP_3_USA-ELECTION-DESANTIS-JAPAN_erkbcb)

I guarantee that if the question was put to the American people, Vivek would easily come out on top, AINEC.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 05, 2024, 04:36:08 pm
Trump attorney Alina Habba says Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh will “step up” and rule in favour of Trump because he “fought for” him.
They're not even trying to hide their corruption anymore.

Can someone explain? I thought they were not going to hear this case...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 05, 2024, 04:43:21 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/22/supreme-court-trump-immunity-claim-2020-election-case

Okay here it is... They declined to fast track the immunity question. But isn't the immunity question a dependency for this other decision?

I guess not
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 06, 2024, 03:14:22 pm
I guarantee that if the question was put to the American people, Vivek would easily come out on top, AINEC.

I think the difference here is Desantis has Resting Punchable Face, which means he can be just standing there and you wanna sock him (Pollivere is the same). Ramswamy is a normal looking dude but the powerful urge to knock his teeth out rises as soon as he starts talking.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 06, 2024, 04:42:54 pm
I think the difference here is Desantis has Resting Punchable Face, which means he can be just standing there and you wanna sock him (Pollivere is the same). Ramswamy is a normal looking dude but the powerful urge to knock his teeth out rises as soon as he starts talking.
Now do this guy! 😂

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 06, 2024, 05:26:55 pm
Now do this guy! 😂

(Attachment Link)

Whatever one thinks of his politics, he's an objectively good-looking man so this is just cope.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 06, 2024, 05:54:33 pm
Whatever one thinks of his politics, he's an objectively good-looking man so this is just cope.

Dreamboat 🤣
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 07, 2024, 06:03:11 am
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/06/politics/trump-civil-war-negotiated/index.html

Trump wouldn't have ended slavery....

There's probably no bottom to this.  He can make outrageous comments forever.  Will any of them matter ?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 07, 2024, 11:01:53 am
Dreamboat 🤣

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/12828ae05b54ad91160e64f96e58f5b42634f573/0_3_3000_1799/master/3000.jpg?width=1200&height=900&quality=85&auto=format&fit=crop&s=7cb9e9eae3372232a0d18c93187cbf66)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 07, 2024, 12:27:46 pm
Trump makes a hilarious joke about John McCain not being able to raise his arms after being tortured in Vietnam. Wokies would want to cancel him for his humour because they are "offended".
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 07, 2024, 12:46:04 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/06/politics/trump-civil-war-negotiated/index.html

Trump wouldn't have ended slavery....

There's probably no bottom to this.  He can make outrageous comments forever.  Will any of them matter ?

I think the comments weren't just meant simply to appease the confederation-flag loving Republican base. I think it was a calculated statement intended to paint Trump as the president under whom there were no wars. Whether it was just dumb luck or there was actual truth in it, the fact is two major wars have started under Biden.

His supporters see him as a master business negotiator who brought his 'art of the deal' to meet with Kim Jong Un and keep Putin at bay. He is obviously trying to capitalize on the perception by pretending he could've presided over civil war better than Abraham Lincoln.

He is obviously full of it and Liz Cheney is 100% correct in saying the civil war was not negotiable, but I'm just pointing out that the statement goes beyond appeasing the worst of his base about slavery. It's a clear message to centrists and moderates that Trump is a negotiator and peace president.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: queenmandy85 on January 08, 2024, 12:36:59 pm
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/12828ae05b54ad91160e64f96e58f5b42634f573/0_3_3000_1799/master/3000.jpg?width=1200&height=900&quality=85&auto=format&fit=crop&s=7cb9e9eae3372232a0d18c93187cbf66)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 09, 2024, 07:54:00 pm
The corruption is unbelievable.  But on par for “anything to get Trump”.

Fulton DA Fani Willis allegedly hired her romantic partner to prosecute Trump, and he met with Biden White House counsel before indictment
https://thepostmillennial.com/fulton-da-fani-willis-allegedly-hired-her-romantic-partner-to-prosecute-trump-and-he-met-with-biden-white-house-counsel-before-indictment#google_vignette
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 10, 2024, 08:03:52 am
Anything to get Trump? Did you notice Trump isn't arguing he's innocent in his trials? He admits he did what they say he did. He's arguing the president is above the law and can do whatever he wants.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 10, 2024, 09:06:30 am
Anything to get Trump? Did you notice Trump isn't arguing he's innocent in his trials? He admits he did what they say he did. He's arguing the president is above the law and can do whatever he wants.
I disagree with that too.  Nobody is above the law.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 10, 2024, 09:28:59 am
And yet, even after admitting he did what he did, you feel any prosecution could only be political. It's like you want to sound reasonable but deep down you feel he should get away with his crimes because he's Trump.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 10, 2024, 10:37:19 am
And yet, even after admitting he did what he did, you feel any prosecution could only be political. It's like you want to sound reasonable but deep down you feel he should get away with his crimes because he's Trump.
He didn't admit to anything, he thinks that regardless he has immunity.  He's wrong.  You're also wrong to convict people of crimes before any charge or trial.  See how easy it is to not be an authoritarian a$$hole?  Try it sometime.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 10, 2024, 10:56:03 am
You're not paying very close attention or you're getting all your information from far-right blogs that assume you're too stupid to find out the truth for yourself
He's been charged. His defence has been that he did the crimes but can't be convicted because he has immunity. Glad to help you, although I'm sure that won't stop you from continuing to deny reality as it suits you. That's the only trick you guys have left
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 10, 2024, 11:13:43 am
He's been charged
Charged for what?  Charged by whom?  Which crimes has he admitted to?  Why can't you just let the court process play out?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 10, 2024, 11:28:06 am
I already cited it for you. You chose to continue to spread misinformation.
Nonetheless, all the details of the 91 crimes he's been charged with are readily available.
I doubt you'll look at them though. You would rather trash the the Constitution and call it undemocratic instead.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 10, 2024, 11:31:19 am
I already cited it for you. You chose to continue to spread misinformation.
Nonetheless, all the details of the 91 crimes he's been charged with are readily available.
I doubt you'll look at them though. You would rather trash the the Constitution and call it undemocratic instead.
The undemocratic process is your guilty before proven innocent nonsense.  So is Democrat operatives removing Republican candidates from the Republican primary ballot without of any kind of conviction of any charges.   If you're going to use a criminal action to remove somebody from a ballot, the least you could do is wait for a criminal conviction.  But that makes too much sense.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 10, 2024, 11:39:47 am
If you're going to use a criminal action to remove somebody from a ballot, the least you could do is wait for a criminal conviction.  But that makes too much sense.

you're too f'n stooopid to realize a criminal charge/conviction for 'insurrection' is not required in regards the U.S. Constitutions 14th amendment - which is clearly a civil action with a straight forward result of {Trump} losing eligibility to hold various state and federal government jobs. Again, civil versus criminal!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 10, 2024, 11:44:46 am
you're too f'n stooopid to realize a criminal charge/conviction for 'insurrection' is not required in regards the U.S. Constitutions 14th amendment - which is clearly a civil action with a straight forward result of {Trump} losing eligibility to hold various state and federal government jobs. Again, civil versus criminal!
Of course it does, it's a criminal act, not a civil act.  Regardless, even if it didn't, don't you think that it would be wise to go through that process and wait for an actual criminal conviction, if you're going to do something like remove the right of voters to decide who they want to vote for?  Don't you think it undermines the whole electoral process if you don't?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 10, 2024, 12:08:43 pm
Of course it does, it's a criminal act, not a civil act.  Regardless, even if it didn't, don't you think that it would be wise to go through that process and wait for an actual criminal conviction, if you're going to do something like remove the right of voters to decide who they want to vote for?  Don't you think it undermines the whole electoral process if you don't?

you haven't a clue! Again, NO CRIMINAL CONVICTION is required in regards the U.S. Constitution's 14th amendment (Section 3)! If you disagree, provide a cite reference to that end! Sure you can! Again, the distinction is CIVIL vs. CRIMINAL. What, as you say, 'undermines the whole U.S. electoral process', is allowing someone {Trump} who "engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the United States", from holding federal office.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 10, 2024, 12:24:59 pm
you haven't a clue! Again, NO CRIMINAL CONVICTION is required in regards the U.S. Constitution's 14th amendment (Section 3)! If you disagree, provide a cite reference to that end! Sure you can! Again, the distinction is CIVIL vs. CRIMINAL. What, as you say, 'undermines the whole U.S. electoral process', is allowing someone {Trump} who "engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the United States", from holding federal office.
You’re a complete and utter fool.  He didn’t “engage” in any such things.  He literally said go and make your voices heard.  That’s hardly an insurrection, give a f**king rest already.  Btw, where does it say no criminal conviction is required?  If you’re going to use a criminal act against someone, who shouldn’t they at least be convicted of it?   Not to police state fascists.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 10, 2024, 12:29:25 pm
How come you don't mention the fake electors he had lined up?
The Constitution says nothing about requiring a conviction. It just says insurrectionists aren't allowed, and everybody with half a brain knows he tried to hold onto power through insurrection. Why do you hate the Constitution?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 10, 2024, 01:18:14 pm
You’re a complete and utter fool.  He didn’t “engage” in any such things.  He literally said go and make your voices heard.  That’s hardly an insurrection, give a f**king rest already.

Quote
The mob that attacked the Capitol on January 6 was the culmination of a series of efforts to overturn the election results, which included not merely legal appeals or extreme rhetoric—both of which are constitutionally permitted—but the use of the authority of the presidency to pressure state legislators to unlawfully overturn the elections in their state, to coerce the Department of Justice to provide a false pretext for overturning said results, and to intimidate then–Vice President Mike Pence into using authority he did not have to do the same, a request he nearly tried to fulfill. The failure of all of these schemes rested not on a lack of intent, but on not having consolidated federal power in a way Trump and his advisers are openly planning to do in a second term should he prevail in November.
-link (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/01/donald-trump-insurrection/677028/?gift=Je3D9AQS-C17lUTOnl2W8Af4Iop-I52KLwapkn0gEBY&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share)

Quote
Btw, where does it say no criminal conviction is required? If you’re going to use a criminal act against someone, who shouldn’t they at least be convicted of it?   Not to police state fascists.

Quote
Historical precedent also confirms that a criminal conviction is not required for an individual to be disqualified under Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment. No one who has been formally disqualified under Section 3 was charged under the criminal “rebellion or insurrection” statute (18 U.S.C. § 2383) or its predecessors. This fact is consistent with Section 3’s text, legislative history, and precedent, all of which make clear that a criminal conviction for any offense is not required for disqualification. Section 3 is not a criminal penalty, but rather is a qualification for holding public office in the United States that can be and has been enforced through civil lawsuits in state courts, among other means.

-link (https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-reports/past-14th-amendment-disqualifications/)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 10, 2024, 08:58:10 pm
Anyone else notice how often that greasy little pu$$y Shady vanishes from threads after getting his ass handed to him?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 11, 2024, 02:21:32 am
whoa! Thanks to member queenmandy85 for posting the second image of the affect member Hardner's labelled 'dreamboat' has on the ladies:

(https://media5.newsnationtv.com/images/2019/08/28/ivankamelaniatrudeau-1000.jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 11, 2024, 07:57:43 am
"All of y'all were running!"
This woman is awesome.
https://twitter.com/ReallyAmerican1/status/1745138134113812941?t=jzl5OTVynPCHI114noFvwQ&s=19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 11, 2024, 08:51:19 am
"All of y'all were running!"
This woman is awesome.
https://twitter.com/ReallyAmerican1/status/1745138134113812941?t=jzl5OTVynPCHI114noFvwQ&s=19

It does feel good to hear moral exclamations from someone you agree with, but aside from rallying the troops it won't matter.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 12, 2024, 11:04:50 am
Roger Stone caught on tape discussing assassinating two Democrats. Classy!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 17, 2024, 11:51:32 pm
Noticed that Donald has abandoned the orange fake face tanner and opted for a brown version.  He kinda looks blackface now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulpJb5BIjfY
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 18, 2024, 06:15:57 am
Not sure why rich people think Botox and eye jobs and bronzer look good.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 18, 2024, 12:33:46 pm
If the Supreme Court accepts Trump's argument that a president has total immunity from all crimes, I guess Biden will be allowed to kill him and the justices who supported him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 18, 2024, 03:13:04 pm
Trumps wants a president to have the same powers as a Roman Emperor.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 18, 2024, 03:15:03 pm
Trumps wants a president to have the same powers as a Roman Emperor.
The Supreme Court will rule 9-0 against his immunity claim.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on January 20, 2024, 04:59:38 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GEN__-PWkAIo2kY?format=jpg&name=small)

Trump’s mental decline is quite obvious at this point. Keep in mind that his father Fred died with Alzheimer’s disease at age 93 and started showing signs of dementia at least seven years before then.

Many experts are saying Trump is now showing signs of dementia
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on January 20, 2024, 05:00:53 am
Trumps wants a president to have the same powers as a Roman Emperor. Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, and Putin.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Coolio on January 20, 2024, 05:01:31 am
Noticed that Donald has abandoned the orange fake face tanner and opted for a brown version.  He kinda looks blackface now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulpJb5BIjfY

Vivek is such a lowlife.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 20, 2024, 07:43:19 am
]Trump’s mental decline is quite obvious at this point. Keep in mind that his father Fred died with Alzheimer’s disease at age 93 and started showing signs of dementia at least seven years before then.

Many experts are saying Trump is now showing signs of dementia

Imagine if Biden got Nikki Haley and Nancy Pelosi mixed up. Shady would be shrieking all over this forum.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-confuses-nikki-haley-pelosi-talking-jan-6-rcna134863?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma&taid=65ab59a5d6f23c000171cb9b&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 20, 2024, 09:12:53 am
Imagine if Biden got Nikki Haley and Nancy Pelosi mixed up. Shady would be shrieking all over this forum.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-confuses-nikki-haley-pelosi-talking-jan-6-rcna134863?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma&taid=65ab59a5d6f23c000171cb9b&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
Biden constantly gets people mixed up, messes up their names, and tries to shake hands with people that aren’t there, so I’m not sure what your point is?  Do I think either of them should be running for office?  No.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 20, 2024, 09:22:55 am
Constantly? Nothing so full-blown out-of-it as that. If there were something, you would be posting it all over this forum. 😂
Regardless, given the choice between a failing sane person and a failing authoritarian megalomaniac who tried to destroy western democracy, one would think the choice is obvious
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on January 20, 2024, 11:42:31 am
Noticed that Donald has abandoned the orange fake face tanner and opted for a brown version.

no! The OrangeMan still rules... from this past Tuesday - and, of course, the red marks on Trump's hand has caused a fervour of speculation as to their cause; from golf sores, to a simple rash, to a fall... ramped up to the most 'unkind' syphilis!

(https://i.insider.com/65a8186d43bb77284b9dcf9c?width=2000&format=jpeg&auto=webp)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 20, 2024, 11:58:42 am
Probably just makeup from touching his overdone face.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 20, 2024, 05:50:12 pm
He's got a racist taunt going against Haley now...

What a piece of garbage he is...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 20, 2024, 06:21:47 pm
He's got a racist taunt going against Haley now...

What a piece of garbage he is...
What is it?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 20, 2024, 08:56:19 pm
What is it?

“Nimbra”?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 21, 2024, 12:55:18 am
He's got a racist taunt going against Haley now...

What a piece of garbage he is...

I have no love for Nikki Haley but yeah, taunting her non-Anglo name is pretty on brand for him. He's like a 12 year old boy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 21, 2024, 07:00:04 am
But so are his supporters.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 21, 2024, 07:55:54 am
But so are his supporters.

Denigrating, the electorate is a no-go. Unless you come up with an improvement to democracy, you have to work with what you have.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2024, 12:56:51 pm
Denigrating, the electorate is a no-go. Unless you come up with an improvement to democracy, you have to work with what you have.

Works for Trump and it is definitely not an improvement to democracy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 21, 2024, 01:02:58 pm
I have no love for Nikki Haley but yeah, taunting her non-Anglo name is pretty on brand for him. He's like a 12 year old boy.
It’s exactly what Trump haters did to him going back to 2016.  They referred to him as Drumpf.  The originating pre-Americanized name.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 21, 2024, 01:04:14 pm
Denigrating, the electorate is a no-go. Unless you come up with an improvement to democracy, you have to work with what you have.
Exactly.  Apparently not wanting millions of people just walking across the border illegally makes you a 12 year old. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2024, 02:44:07 pm
Exactly.  Apparently not wanting millions of people just walking across the border illegally makes you a 12 year old.


I was referring to his personal insult ridden rhetoric. He really is a piece of ****.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 21, 2024, 05:28:35 pm
It’s exactly what Trump haters did to him going back to 2016.  They referred to him as Drumpf.  The originating pre-Americanized name.

Well how inappropriate to hold POTUS public speech to a different standard than random social media trolls.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 21, 2024, 07:28:29 pm
Vivek has been kissing so much Trump butt he's like PeePee when he was inside Harper's bottom.  He's either hoping to be Trump's VP (hoping for the GOP nomination after Trump's 2nd term if he wins 2024), or trying to ride his coattails to grab his supporters if Trump is eventually somehow deemed ineligible to run due to his legal/court issues.

I don't mind Nikki Haley but she's just saying and doing dumb stuff to appeal to the Trumpsters and knuckle-dragging base, so she just kinda sucks.  The whole GOP field is bad.  Doesn't matter, we all know Trump will win the nomination.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 22, 2024, 10:59:31 pm
Well how inappropriate to hold POTUS public speech to a different standard than random social media trolls.
Even more significantly....

Prior to the whole "Drumph/Trump" thing, Stubby McBonespurs once criticized Jon Stewart because he was using the name Stewart instead of his family name Liebowitz. This happened way back in 2013, long before Trump entered politics.

So Trump was "bringing up" the issue of family/historical names long before people started suggesting Trump use the name Drumph.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/2/13499036/jon-stewart-trump-feud
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 23, 2024, 09:13:08 am
"We are an institute in a powerful death penalty. We will put this on!" - Donald Trump

Well, that's reassuring. Trumpers will still support him after he is found to be unfit to stand trial.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 23, 2024, 09:29:14 am
"We are an institute in a powerful death penalty. We will put this on!" - Donald Trump

Well, that's reassuring. Trumpers will still support him after he is found to be unfit to stand trial.
He’s as unfit as Joe Biden.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 23, 2024, 09:45:41 am
They are both unfit.  Going to be a disgraceful election.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 23, 2024, 09:54:58 am
They are both unfit.  Going to be a disgraceful election.
I agree.  I will probably tune out everything until it’s over with.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 23, 2024, 10:02:16 am
They are both unfit. 
Not really.

Yes, Biden does make the occasional gaff. But that is largely due to 2 things: 1) a stutter he had since childhood, and 2) as president he is under scrutiny 24/7 so that any mistake of the type anyone would make gets highlighted.

By comparison, Trump's mistakes are 1) much more frequent, and 2) Much more concerning, since his screwups tend to amplify his bad policies.

The whole "they are both unfit" rhetoric unfairly benefits the republicans since it absolves them of supporting a racist con-artist who clearly has more significant issues.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 23, 2024, 10:41:28 am
The whole "they are both unfit" rhetoric
The mental decline of Biden since he was Obama's VP is astonishing.  Most of the time he has a blank look on his face.  His handlers prevent him from taking questions.  He constantly messes up people's names, and even calls on people to speak etc who have died, and or are dead.  When he speaks, he often becomes completely incoherent at times, as if he's having a stroke.  I get that you hate Trump, but that doesn't mean that Biden isn't suffering from severe dementia, because he is.  He's completely unfit for office, and Democrats should have replaced him with somebody like Gavin Newsome long ago.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 23, 2024, 11:04:49 am
Biden is old but he's not nearly as far gone as Trump. And Trump was unfit before his brain atrophied.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 23, 2024, 11:43:00 am
Biden is old but he's not nearly as far gone as Trump. And Trump was unfit before his brain atrophied.
He definitely is as far gone as Trump, just in a different way.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 23, 2024, 11:44:38 am
Biden asks whether deceased congresswoman is at White House event
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/biden-asks-deceased-congresswoman-present-white-house-event-rcna49898
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 23, 2024, 12:04:41 pm
Shocking. He didn't know someone had died! How could that possibly happen?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 23, 2024, 12:05:58 pm
He definitely is as far gone as Trump, just in a different way.
You have never had a clue what you're talking about before. Why would anyone think you do now?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 23, 2024, 12:17:28 pm
I'll see your "not knowing someone died" and raise you a "mess of gibberish about how Operation Desert Storm was in Vietnam."
https://x.com/Canadian_logic_/status/1749847540076531726?t=NPffvOEiwC2Je3sQSVZ4pg&s=09

I suspect, knowing you've already lost this game in humiliating fashion, you will drop out now. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 23, 2024, 12:22:59 pm
Shocking. He didn't know someone had died! How could that possibly happen?
But he did know! 😂😂😂

Quote
Hours after her death, Biden issued a statement saying he "appreciated her partnership
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 23, 2024, 12:31:03 pm
I raised you. You have to call or raise. Is that a call? That's all you got? Because I have lots more.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 23, 2024, 12:40:56 pm
I raised you. You have to call or raise. Is that a call? That's all you got? Because I have lots more.
That's only the tip of the iceberg.  I could post videos of him trying to shake hands with invisible people, but I just don't care that much.  You seem to really get triggered when somebody points out the obvious of Joe Biden.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 23, 2024, 12:46:26 pm
I accept your admission that it wouldn't have been much of a contest. I could probably give you 10 Trumps for every Biden. And Trump's will always be worse
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 23, 2024, 12:46:56 pm
Not really.

Yes, Biden does make the occasional gaff. But that is largely due to 2 things: 1) a stutter he had since childhood, and 2) as president he is under scrutiny 24/7 so that any mistake of the type anyone would make gets highlighted.

By comparison, Trump's mistakes are 1) much more frequent, and 2) Much more concerning, since his screwups tend to amplify his bad policies.

The whole "they are both unfit" rhetoric unfairly benefits the republicans since it absolves them of supporting a racist con-artist who clearly has more significant issues.

I want the Democrats to win this election but I'm not going to pretend that Biden's brain isn't a fine paste at this point.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 23, 2024, 12:50:46 pm
I want the Democrats to win this election but I'm not going to pretend that Biden's brain isn't a fine paste at this point.
The power brokers in the Democrat party should have arranged something long ago, for Biden to step aside and have somebody else take his place.  Gavin Newsome would be the ideal candidate, but there are probably others.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 23, 2024, 12:58:32 pm
I understand why they're hanging onto Biden: he beat Trump once so it's reasonable to think he could do it again compared to a newcomer with no national profile.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 23, 2024, 01:16:39 pm
I understand why they're hanging onto Biden: he beat Trump once so it's reasonable to think he could do it again compared to a newcomer with no national profile.
True.  But somebody like Gavin Newsome has a national profile.  He's been the governor of California for several years.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 25, 2024, 07:45:49 am
As I understand it, Trump's lawyer got his trial delayed in the premise she had covid and then she went to a MAGA party. Some MAGA kid who is mostly famous for video of him abusing police officers during the Jan 6 riot took a picture with her and posted it to social media. This made them all panic so they forcibly removed the MAGA kid, which he also posted on social media.
 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 25, 2024, 11:11:44 am
Saying the quiet part out loud, Trump wants Republicans to sabotage any positive work on the border so that he can blame Biden for it.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 25, 2024, 11:22:44 am
Saying the quiet part out loud, Trump wants Republicans to sabotage any positive work on the border so that he can blame Biden for it.
Why is Biden suing border states that are trying to secure their borders and prevent people from just walking across?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 25, 2024, 11:28:37 am
As I understand it, Trump's lawyer got his trial delayed in the premise she had covid and then she went to a MAGA party. Some MAGA kid who is mostly famous for video of him abusing police officers during the Jan 6 riot took a picture with her and posted it to social media. This made them all panic so they forcibly removed the MAGA kid, which he also posted on social media.
 😂
A little bit inaccurate.

The trial was delayed, but there were several issues.

One of the jurors was ill, and so they suspended the trial so they could do a covid test at home. So the trial was probably going to be delayed regardless of what Trump's lawyers said.

Habba also said she was possibly exposed to covid (yet strangely enough she appeared in court without a mask, sat next to Trump, who also was not wearing a mask.)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 25, 2024, 12:02:57 pm
Why is Biden suing border states that are trying to secure their borders and prevent people from just walking across?

They aren't suing border states, they're suing one particular state which is usurping federal authority over the border and murdering migrants.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 25, 2024, 02:51:35 pm
They aren't suing border states, they're suing one particular state which is usurping federal authority over the border and murdering migrants.
It should also be noted that the issue of the Texas "border/barrier" efforts not only risks the lives of migrants, it also harms Americans (the river where the barriers were erected were waterways used by boaters), as well as the environment.

And its all done to address something that 1) isn't a major problem (most illegal immigrants do not cross the border but arrive legally and overstay their welcome, and once in the U.S. are less likely to engage in crime than Americans), and 2) is already being addressed by other methods used to monitor the border.

Republicans are supposed to be the fiscally responsible party, yet here they are wasting millions of dollars just to try to make a political point.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 25, 2024, 03:10:12 pm
They aren't suing border states

Biden administration sues Texas over floating border barriers used to repel migrants
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-justice-department-lawsuit-border-barriers-rio-grande/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 25, 2024, 03:13:26 pm
Biden administration sues Texas over floating border barriers used to repel migrants
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-justice-department-lawsuit-border-barriers-rio-grande/

Yes and if you bothered to read the rest of the post you'd see I acknowledged that, but I understand that's a lot of reading for you to manage.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 25, 2024, 03:19:54 pm
Yes and if you bothered to read the rest of the post you'd see I acknowledged that, but I understand that's a lot of reading for you to manage.
There are specific points of entry.  You cannot just walk across anywhere.  It's against the law.  If the federal government would do it's job, states wouldn't have to step in.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 25, 2024, 03:41:12 pm
There are specific points of entry.  You cannot just walk across anywhere.  It's against the law.  If the federal government would do it's job, states wouldn't have to step in.

None of that is relevant to the fact that control over international borders rests with the federal government and states "stepping in" is a violation of defined constitutional authority. States can't just decide to violate the separation of powers just because they don't think the feds aren't doing a good enough job.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 26, 2024, 01:45:35 pm
None of that is relevant to the fact that control over international borders rests with the federal government and states "stepping in" is a violation of defined constitutional authority. States can't just decide to violate the separation of powers just because they don't think the feds aren't doing a good enough job.

They can for now.  The Supreme Court only said the the border patrol has a right to remove the razor wire.  They didn’t say the state couldn’t put more up. 

What a f$cked up country. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 26, 2024, 02:22:45 pm
They can for now.  The Supreme Court only said the the border patrol has a right to remove the razor wire.  They didn’t say the state couldn’t put more up. 

What a f$cked up country.
I agree.  It definitely is f**ked up when the federal government refuses to do its job, and then sues states that try to fill the void.  Biden’s turned the country into a complete clown show.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 26, 2024, 02:43:18 pm
Whatever your problem is, it's no excuse for trying to drum up a civil war.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 26, 2024, 02:45:25 pm
Meanwhile, Haley calls Trump "totally unhinged", which is an uncommon acknowledgement of reality for a Republican. Unfortunately she's as cowardly as the rest and will inevitably endorse him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 26, 2024, 02:49:51 pm
Whatever your problem is, it's no excuse for trying to drum up a civil war.
You should be pointing your finger at Biden.  Suing states who are only trying to do what the federal government is SUPPOSED to do is a recipe for disaster.  Remember when he said he was going to unify the country? 😂😂😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 26, 2024, 02:51:39 pm
Meanwhile, Haley calls Trump "totally unhinged", which is an uncommon acknowledgement of reality for a Republican. Unfortunately she's as cowardly as the rest and will inevitably endorse him.
Unhinged is subjective.  Regardless, if voters want to vote fur somebody “unhinged” that’s their right.  It says more about the current regime and it’s abject failure to make things better for the middle class.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 26, 2024, 03:00:56 pm
It's not illegal to vote for someone who is unhinged! Therefore, it must be okay! 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 26, 2024, 03:06:04 pm
It's not illegal to vote for someone who is unhinged! Therefore, it must be okay! 😂
Ok is subjective.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 26, 2024, 03:11:43 pm
Moral relativism is useful when you know you're morally bankrupt and can't defend yourself because you don't even respect your own position.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 26, 2024, 03:18:10 pm
Moral relativism is useful when you know you're morally bankrupt and can't defend yourself because you don't even respect your own position.
I don't know what you mean by ok.  Sorry.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 26, 2024, 03:20:20 pm
I know you can't read well but you shouldn't use that as a crutch. It's not like you're saving face
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 26, 2024, 03:27:34 pm
I know you can't read well but you shouldn't use that as a crutch. It's not like you're saving face
Your question is nonsensical.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 26, 2024, 03:31:46 pm
Maybe your problem is that I didn't ask a question. Did you know you can tell which sentences are questions by the curly punctuation at the end?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 26, 2024, 03:34:53 pm
Maybe your problem is that I didn't ask a question. Did you know you can tell which sentences are questions by the curly punctuation at the end?
My mistake, you made a straw man argument.  Insisting that I implied something I didn’t.  This is too dumb of a conversation to continue with.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 26, 2024, 03:39:54 pm
I accept your apology. Next I'll teach you what a strawman argument is, but I don't have much hope you'll understand.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 26, 2024, 03:42:34 pm
I accept your apology. Next I'll teach you what a strawman argument is, but I don't have much hope you'll understand.
Just let me know what you mean by "ok".  Then we can start discussing this again. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 26, 2024, 03:51:31 pm
I know you're really dumb but you couldn't be that dumb. It's just a cover to save face again because you know you have no argument.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 26, 2024, 03:52:18 pm
I know you're really dumb but you couldn't be that dumb. It's just a cover to save face again because you know you have no argument.
You won’t answer the question.  We’re done here.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 26, 2024, 04:01:28 pm
How devastating! You're not even going to try to guess what ok means? Do you think it might mean "fine" or "good"? Do you know what those words mean? How much help do you need?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 26, 2024, 04:03:51 pm
For the record, Haley called Trump unhinged because he mixed her up with E. Jean Carroll. Earlier this week, she was Pelosi. Time to push the Biden has dementia narrative even harder, I guess. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 26, 2024, 04:24:16 pm
You should be pointing your finger at Biden.  Suing states who are only trying to do what the federal government is SUPPOSED to do is a recipe for disaster.  Remember when he said he was going to unify the country? 😂😂😂

Do you understand how the separation of powers works or are you utterly braindead?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 26, 2024, 04:52:37 pm
Glad she got some justice.  83 million dollars is a lot for defamation LOL.  She got 5 million for the ****.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 26, 2024, 05:41:00 pm
Glad she got some justice.  83 million dollars is a lot for defamation LOL.  She got 5 million for the ****.
I wish her luck seeing one cent of it.  The parents of Sandy Hook still haven’t seen a dime from Alex Jones.  You’re right about the amount being a lot for defamation.  But anything Trump of Trump related gets conducted a different way.  The normal practices get tossed aside.  But I fear that America is now going down a road to severely punish free speech.  Speaking out and being wrong shouldn’t be liable for lawsuits.  Defamation used to be a very rare occurrence because it’s so difficult to prove.  You essentially have to prove that somebody knowing said something that’s false.  I wonder if members of the freedom convoy could bring a defamation suit against Trudeau and his government?  It might be worth a shot.  Who knows, Pierre might have a good defamation case against Trudeau over his comments calling him maga. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 26, 2024, 05:44:54 pm
In all of Trump's whining today about how the country is falling apart because he is facing consequences for his actions, he didn't defame Carroll once. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 27, 2024, 05:52:20 am
In all of Trump's whining today about how the country is falling apart because he is facing consequences for his actions, he didn't defame Carroll once. 😂

Weird.  He's a billionaire so he sure can afford to do it at least 11 more times.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 27, 2024, 06:14:14 am
Not unlike a Mexican cartel trial, the judge actually warned the jury to never, ever publicly reveal themselves.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 27, 2024, 06:17:46 am
I wish her luck seeing one cent of it.  The parents of Sandy Hook still haven’t seen a dime from Alex Jones.  You’re right about the amount being a lot for defamation.  But anything Trump of Trump related gets conducted a different way.  The normal practices get tossed aside.  But I fear that America is now going down a road to severely punish free speech.  Speaking out and being wrong shouldn’t be liable for lawsuits.  Defamation used to be a very rare occurrence because it’s so difficult to prove.  You essentially have to prove that somebody knowing said something that’s false.  I wonder if members of the freedom convoy could bring a defamation suit against Trudeau and his government?  It might be worth a shot.  Who knows, Pierre might have a good defamation case against Trudeau over his comments calling him maga.

Why, do you think Trump will declare bankruptcy like Jones? That won't look good on the alleged billionaire.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 28, 2024, 08:48:19 am
I could do one a day.
"We will restore on this planet peace through earth" - Donald Trump

https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1751381257047478331?t=pPIPAKcpnYy62Q0YKY-Bsg&s=19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on January 28, 2024, 09:53:25 am
Well, the earth might seem a lot more peaceful if Trump had six feet of earth on top of him.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 29, 2024, 09:42:24 am
I could do one a day.
"We will restore on this planet peace through earth" - Donald Trump
Yes, because if its anyone who can bring peace, its the man who 1) had an Iranian general killed, prompting retaliation from Iran, and 2) removed some of the safeguards/oversight regarding drone strikes

Although admittedly there may be a kernel of truth to the matter. After all, Trump has a habit of just "giving in" to various dictators... witness him releasing thousands of taliban prisoners. And the Russia/Ukraine war would likely stop under a Trump presidency, partly because Trump would just hand Ukraine over to Putin, partly because Putin wants to harm the U.S., and recognizes that having Trump as president accomplishes that goal and will do everything he can to make him look good.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 29, 2024, 09:51:08 am
Why, do you think Trump will declare bankruptcy like Jones? That won't look good on the alleged billionaire.
Keep in mind that the Trump situation is slightly different than the Jones situation.

In Trump's case, much of his "wealth" is in the form of physical assets (Trump tower, Mar a Lago). And because of the Fraud trial, Trump's finances are under more of a microscope. This makes it harder for Trump to "hid" his money, or to pull any shenanigans with bankruptcy.

It should also be noted that in order to appeal the verdict in the Carroll case (which he plans to do), Trump needs to put forward a significant deposit into a bond/trust. Thus, even of Trump eventually declares bankruptcy, she will at least get most of her money.

(Assuming of course that Trump loses any appeals, which he is likely to do.)

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 29, 2024, 02:24:37 pm
Remember how we learned last year that Trump was a tax cheat? (Thanks to a tax fraud case against the Trump organization, something that Trump owns and controls)

Well, that may not be the only example of Trump cheating taxes.

From: https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-48-million-loan-tax-evasion-special-monitor-report-2024-1
Tucked into a footnote in a letter written by a former federal judge, Barbara Jones — the court-appointed special monitor overseeing Donald Trump's New York business-fraud case — is a bombshell that appears to indicate the former president may have engaged in massive tax evasion,...  buried in the sixth footnote of the 12-page letter is what The Daily Beast, citing legal experts, said was a clue that Trump evaded taxes on $48 million in income, with Jones writing that the massive sum — which Trump has claimed for years that he owes as a debt to one of his companies — seems to have never existed.

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 30, 2024, 01:19:34 am
Yes, because if its anyone who can bring peace, its the man who 1) had an Iranian general killed, prompting retaliation from Iran, and 2) removed some of the safeguards/oversight regarding drone strikes

Although admittedly there may be a kernel of truth to the matter. After all, Trump has a habit of just "giving in" to various dictators... witness him releasing thousands of taliban prisoners. And the Russia/Ukraine war would likely stop under a Trump presidency, partly because Trump would just hand Ukraine over to Putin, partly because Putin wants to harm the U.S., and recognizes that having Trump as president accomplishes that goal and will do everything he can to make him look good.

He’s unpredictable and a loose cannon. Adversaries know Biden has been in politics for decades and knows what happens behind the scenes. He can also take criticism without scorching the earth.

Let’s be honest, Trump’s juvenile mental stagnation also played a part.




Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 30, 2024, 08:36:55 am
**** is a helluva drug.
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1752155731770360214?t=zPA-JkBnW-D8hAYTRIWcQA&s=19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 30, 2024, 08:38:32 am
**** is a helluva drug.
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1752155731770360214?t=zPA-JkBnW-D8hAYTRIWcQA&s=19
Hunter Biden could tell you as well! 😂😂😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 30, 2024, 08:57:24 am
Hunter doesn't get high level positions in the administration though. He doesn't even get to involve his dad in his business deals. Donald Jr. is involved with both the administration and his dad's business. But you still have the weakest whataboutisms of all. lol
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 30, 2024, 10:18:03 am
Hunter doesn't get high level positions in the administration though. He doesn't even get to involve his dad in his business deals. Donald Jr. is involved with both the administration and his dad's business. But you still have the weakest whataboutisms of all. lol
10% for the big guy!  LOL!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 30, 2024, 10:22:38 am
You fell for that? Oh right. You thought Biden from xed the election too. Lol

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1752325748075966879?t=oukqYePdkG-PwQqyhPTAvg&s=19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 30, 2024, 10:26:01 am
You fell for that? Oh right. You thought Biden from xed the election too. Lol

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1752325748075966879?t=oukqYePdkG-PwQqyhPTAvg&s=19
The Lincoln Project!  Looooooool!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 30, 2024, 10:28:11 am
It hurts that there are still conservatives with integrity? It makes you feel even worse about yourself? Try a whataboutism. It will make you feel better, even if it's a really lame one. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 30, 2024, 10:48:13 am
It hurts that there are still conservatives with integrity? It makes you feel even worse about yourself? Try a whataboutism. It will make you feel better, even if it's a really lame one. 😂
My favourite Lincoln Project story is when they started a go fund me to make an anti-Trump movie, took in a hundred thousand dollars in donations, and never made the movie! LOL!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 30, 2024, 11:04:25 am
I think part of your self-hatred might stem from your immediate need to find something---anything---to assassinate the character of anyone who criticizes your Trump. I imagine it's hard to feel good about yourself when you're all-in on Donald.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 30, 2024, 11:18:10 am
I think part of your self-hatred might stem from your immediate need to find something---anything---to assassinate the character of anyone who criticizes your Trump. I imagine it's hard to feel good about yourself when you're all-in on Donald.
It's funny that you ignore any problems with someone, or a group, as long as they fulfill your anti-Trump needs.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 30, 2024, 11:44:44 am
It's funny that, when faced with overwhelming evidence of something you don't like, you always attack the messenger, thinking that's an argument that works.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on January 30, 2024, 11:49:50 am
It's funny that, when faced with overwhelming evidence of something you don't like, you always attack the messenger, thinking that's an argument that works.
LOL!  Yes, purposely slowed down videos on Twitter.  You should apply the same standard to Hunter Biden as you do Don Jr.   Then maybe you'd have some credibility. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 30, 2024, 12:19:22 pm
It's all in the eyes. Those aren't weed eyes or alcohol eyes or oxy eyes. They're totally coke eyes.

Again, Hunter never had a senior role in the administration or the family business. He's a private citizen, not a potential administration official.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 31, 2024, 11:10:44 am
My favourite Lincoln Project story is when they started a go fund me to make an anti-Trump movie, took in a hundred thousand dollars in donations, and never made the movie! LOL!

Funny to see a guy who spent years with disgraced scam artist James O'Keefe as his profile pic talking about grifters.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 05, 2024, 11:27:23 am
Two potential VP picks for Trump, Vance and Stefanik, both say they would not certify election results if the Republicans lost. Maybe Kamala should do the same if Democrats lose.
Sadly, I'm sure she has way too much integrity.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 07, 2024, 03:37:09 pm
Ummmm...

Listen at 0:20

What do you hear ???

"To pay his legal bills and ..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtDd3fegr6g
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 07, 2024, 03:50:39 pm
unintelligible
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 07, 2024, 05:56:20 pm
unintelligible

Listen again. I heard the word hookers.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 07, 2024, 06:23:26 pm
Probably true but probably not what she said.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on February 09, 2024, 02:31:00 pm
Trump praises Hungary’s ‘Viktor Orbán’ as great ‘leader of Turkey’ (https://www.politico.eu/article/trump-confuses-turkish-and-hungarian-leaders-orban-erdogan/)

This election rocks, two totally braindead old men vying to become the most powerful figure in the world.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 12, 2024, 12:22:12 pm
One is far more brain dead and he's malicious too, so it's not really a "both sides" thing.
Plus, he started out brain dead and just got worse.

https://x.com/ZaleskiLuke/status/1756903127733916107?t=rWmr2EvfcBYK6YNb9mSAzw&s=09
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 12, 2024, 02:03:36 pm
America could nominate 2 random people with Down syndrome and the next 4 years would turn out the same.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 12, 2024, 04:33:59 pm
Imagine the MAGA outrage if, rather than a man found guilty of ****, Joe Biden invited a bunch of teenage girls to come dance for him.

https://twitter.com/EdKrassen/status/1757048165251866628/video/1
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 12, 2024, 05:07:53 pm
The sucking is right on track for 2024...
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 14, 2024, 07:50:41 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGJofUFXoAAxdOn?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 15, 2024, 07:48:30 am
"I mixed up Pelosi and Haley on purpose." - Donald Trump
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 15, 2024, 12:21:53 pm
It’s funny to see some of the prosecutors that have charged Trump, now being charged and on the stand, because they’re so f**king corrupt! 😂😂😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 15, 2024, 01:02:23 pm
I guess the less detail you provide about what you mean, the more likely it will appear you know what you're talking about
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 15, 2024, 01:42:08 pm
I guess the less detail you provide about what you mean, the more likely it will appear you know what you're talking about

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 15, 2024, 01:42:55 pm
Case in point. 😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 15, 2024, 06:44:08 pm
But what a brazen attempt by the Trumpers to delay justice until the clock runs out. They have nothing and they know it, but there is no depth too low for them to sink.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 15, 2024, 08:36:28 pm
It’s funny to see some of the prosecutors that have charged Trump, now being charged and on the stand, because they’re so f**king corrupt! 😂😂😂

I know you support Trump but I wonder what you find so acceptable about candidates trying to coerce election officials to "find me votes'?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 16, 2024, 12:08:09 am
Questions for Shady:

1.  Do you support Trump to be the 2024 GOP nominee for POTUS?

2.  Do you believe the election was stolen from Trump in 2020 and that he was the rightful winner of that election?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 16, 2024, 07:37:51 am
I think he already said he doesn't.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 16, 2024, 07:50:19 am
After the election, he very much pushed the stolen election theory, calling Biden "pResident", because he considered him an illegitimate "resident" of the White House. He dismissed and discredited all investigations into Jan 6, and never admitted he was wrong.
He will also wholeheartedly support Trump for president in 2024 and will likely defend the future suspension of democratic elections.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 16, 2024, 10:04:15 am
Questions for Shady:

1.  Do you support Trump to be the 2024 GOP nominee for POTUS?

2.  Do you believe the election was stolen from Trump in 2020 and that he was the rightful winner of that election?
No I don’t support him to be the nominee.  I have made that clear several times.  I preferred several other candidates.

2.  He isn’t the rightful winner of the election, however the election was far from free and fair.  Big tech and the mainstream media literally censored stories negative to Biden.  We now know that these stories were true.  It was the biggest case of election interference in my lifetime.  For example the New York Post was prevented from sharing their story on Hunter Biden on all social media, and the mainstream completely ignored the story.  You can hate Trump, but that’s not right nor acceptable.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on February 16, 2024, 10:35:15 am
No I don’t support him to be the nominee.  I have made that clear several times.  I preferred several other candidates.

2. He isn’t the rightful winner of the election, however the election was far from free and fair.  Big tech and the mainstream media literally censored stories negative to Biden.  We now know that these stories were true.  It was the biggest case of election interference in my lifetime.  For example the New York Post was prevented from sharing their story on Hunter Biden on all social media, and the mainstream completely ignored the story.  You can hate Trump, but that’s not right nor acceptable.

Sore loser stuff lmao
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 16, 2024, 10:46:14 am
Sore loser stuff lmao
Fascist laughs at censorship that benefited his preferred candidate.  No real surprise.  If it happened the other way though, he'd be hopping mad.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 16, 2024, 11:02:21 am
Like you were hopping mad when Comey announced he was investigating Hillary just before the election (for what turned out to be nothing) but failed to mention they were also investigating Trump (which turned out to be something)?
You fail to mention you're complaining about not being able to spread lies about a private citizen that people are getting charged with for stating under oath now. What an affront to democracy that private companies chose not to have any part in helping to spread your lies. Cry some more, maybe.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on February 16, 2024, 01:21:59 pm
Fascist laughs at censorship that benefited his preferred candidate.  No real surprise.  If it happened the other way though, he'd be hopping mad.

Didn't hear you crying about how much coverage the fake email scandal got in 2016. But regardless, media coverage of one candidate or another doesn't dictate whether an election is free and fair or not, dummy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 17, 2024, 06:30:27 am
Now the liars involved in the Biden Ukraine scandal are getting charged for lying to authorities. It was all BS. So Biden's election was illegitimate because a private company chose not to spread what they thought were, and what turned out to be, outright lies. That's some MAGA logic there!

Somehow I don't think suffering "the most spectacular embarrassment imaginable" will even register with them.

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/gop-suffers-spectacular-embarrassment-imaginable-anti-biden-case-rcna139159
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 18, 2024, 09:16:47 am
The RNC will simply hand money to Trump

https://youtu.be/hK6S8uD5160?si=pvnTz0izctJy_iqc

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 18, 2024, 10:17:10 am
These latest kangaroo court ruling had to be peak Trump Derangement Syndrome and peak Trump witch hunt.  He “over values his real estate” to get loans from banks.  Pays back the loans on time and in full and gets sued by a party that wasn’t involved in the business dealings, ie the city.  Non of the parties involved claimed any kind of problems and didn’t want or bring the lawsuits, and the banks involved say they will do business with Trump in the future.

Hopefully this insanity comes to an end soon.  People have lost their minds over their Trump hate.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 18, 2024, 11:01:17 am
That reads like you took it verbatim from a Trump Truth Social post but just removed the weird capitalization.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 18, 2024, 11:36:15 am
the Trump grift ramps up... Shady, get em while you still can! The 'Never Surrender' model @$399! For the cheap phackers there are $199 options!

(https://i.imgur.com/UVMtJzy.png)

wait, what... seems the 'Never Surrender' sneaker has sold out! Ya Shady, you snooze - you lose!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 18, 2024, 11:41:17 am
The RNC will simply hand money to Trump

yup, Trump is pushing for his close buddy Michael Whatley to be the next head of the Republican National Committee and backed his daughter-in-law Lara Trump for co-chair. For what it's worth, Nikki Haley has said as much; stating Trump will use RNC funds to pay off his fines and legal fees... to the obvious detriment of Republican candidates who won't receive money to help get them {re}elected.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 18, 2024, 02:20:04 pm
the Trump grift ramps up... Shady, get em while you still can! The 'Never Surrender' model @$399! For the cheap phackers there are $199 options!

(https://i.imgur.com/UVMtJzy.png)

wait, what... seems the 'Never Surrender' sneaker has sold out! Ya Shady, you snooze - you lose!
Guaranteed they fall apart if you wear them once.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 18, 2024, 04:13:53 pm
The RNC will simply hand money to Trump

https://youtu.be/hK6S8uD5160?si=pvnTz0izctJy_iqc

Well that's what this daughter in law is arguing.  I would think that is indeed part of RNC's job, to give campaign fundraising money to the nominee so they can get elected.  But you'd think the nominee's job is to use those funds for campaigning, not for legal fees.

I assume Trump was able to go around suing every state for ridiculous reasons after he last last election because he had the money of donors to burn and nothing to lose by just suing in desperate attempts to overturn the election results.  Never seen a bigger sore loser in my life, or bigger waster of campaign money.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 18, 2024, 05:45:00 pm
“We have to take seriously the extent to which you’ve now got a Putin-wing of the Republican Party." - Liz Cheney

I'm thinking it's more than just a wing.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 18, 2024, 07:54:55 pm
Guaranteed they fall apart if you wear them once.

They give you bone spurs! 

I wonder where they’re made?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 18, 2024, 08:48:24 pm
Bwaaahaahaaa!  New York governor had to go on television and reassure real estate developers that they won’t be targeted the same way Trump was.  They all know that it was a ridiculous prosecution. 

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: wilber on February 19, 2024, 12:09:21 am
Bwaaahaahaaa!  New York governor had to go on television and reassure real estate developers that they won’t be targeted the same way Trump was.  They all know that it was a ridiculous prosecution. 

(Attachment Link)

It was a radio interview.

Did you bother to read the article or just the tweet? She was asked that question by an interviewer. Basically she said that people who don’t break the law have nothing to worry about.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 19, 2024, 03:12:13 am
Shady a bunch of your tweets don't actually contain the stuff they say they do.  You're being manipulated, and being lazy by not actually reading up on it and just passing it along.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 19, 2024, 06:44:45 am
It's funnier when he doesn't even read the headline and that contradicts what he's saying too.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 19, 2024, 12:23:23 pm
Shady a bunch of your tweets don't actually contain the stuff they say they do.  You're being manipulated, and being lazy by not actually reading up on it and just passing it along.

trudat Nipples, trudat!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on February 19, 2024, 12:43:11 pm
These latest kangaroo court ruling had to be peak Trump Derangement Syndrome and peak Trump witch hunt.  He “over values his real estate” to get loans from banks.  Pays back the loans on time and in full and gets sued by a party that wasn’t involved in the business dealings, ie the city.  Non of the parties involved claimed any kind of problems and didn’t want or bring the lawsuits, and the banks involved say they will do business with Trump in the future.

Hopefully this insanity comes to an end soon.  People have lost their minds over their Trump hate.

(https://www.reuters.com/resizer/ArnIh1RXuCYmJsNnJRjM-N0Dlrc=/1920x0/filters:quality(80)/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/CYSLFHNEIJGIFAHZ4DYJKZMB3U.JPG)

in the related trial the prosecution stated Trump reaped over $100 million through fraud... falsifying business records, issuing false financial statements, conspiracy to commit insurance fraud and conspiracy to falsify business records - but no biggee, hey Shady!

by the by, the oft stated Trump fraud fine was $355 million; however, NY AG James’ office calculates that, to date, Trump owes an additional $98.6 million in interest, bringing his total penalty to $453.5 million. The interest will keep accruing until Trump pays.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 21, 2024, 02:20:16 pm
Trump says the southern border migration is destroying the country and then admits he stopped the border deal because resolving it would "benefit the other side".

So they aren't even pretending they have the country's best interests at heart anymore. We always knew they will hurt the country if they see it as politically beneficial,  but they used to at least pretend otherwise. 

https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/trump-admits-he-ruined-border-deal-to-hurt-democrats-204614213852
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 21, 2024, 02:29:49 pm
So they aren't even pretending they have the country's best interests at heart anymore.
Why did Biden wait 4 years until an election year to address the issue?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 21, 2024, 02:52:31 pm
Why did Trump spend all available money on a wall that did nothing?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 23, 2024, 05:49:34 pm
I remember when this was an attack on democracy.

[attachimg=1]
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/02/democrats-congress-trump-january-6/677545/#
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 23, 2024, 06:39:52 pm
Whatabout when you guys did that, but it was in opposition to the Constitution and not in support of it?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 26, 2024, 11:20:20 am
Donald Trump Jr. awoke from a feverish coke dream in a rage about Biden's c0ck.

https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1761767593226961365?t=4-u4DWFDkMPWOPCgdr2C6w&s=19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on February 26, 2024, 03:31:55 pm
I remember when this was an attack on democracy.

(Attachment Link)
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/02/democrats-congress-trump-january-6/677545/#

What is this supposed to prove?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on February 26, 2024, 03:40:23 pm
What is this supposed to prove?
It shows that Trumps opponents will go at any length to prevent him from winning, even if it means attacking democracy. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 26, 2024, 04:05:42 pm
Now you guys are attacking the Constitution for being anti-democratic? You'll sink as low as you have to, I guess
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 04, 2024, 11:42:42 am
Trump put back on the ballot in unanimous decision, just like I predicted.

If you supported his ballot removal, you’re straight up fascist.  Congratulations.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 04, 2024, 11:46:07 am
Trump is the fascist here.  He did incite an insurrection.  He went up and just started spouting lies again to get the angry and armed mob whipped up in a frenzy.  He should be in jail and hopefully will be after all the charges against him go through the courts.

States should do everything in their power to stop him from running again.  He's a great danger to the United States of America and an enemy of the Constitution.  He broke his oath big-time, he's done.  Stop whining about it.
9 - 0 decision.  You’re hatred for Trump has severely damaged your opinions.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 04, 2024, 12:24:15 pm
9 - 0 decision.

superficialAnalyzerShady says what?

SCOTUS justices Sonia Sotomayor, Elena Kagan, Ketanji Brown Jackson and... Amy Coney Barrett... concurred only on the judgment; specifically that Colorado's decision needed to be reversed, as it would've created a "chaotic state-by-state patchwork at odds with our Nation’s federalism principle." In a separate concurring opinion:

Quote
Today, the majority goes beyond the necessities of this case to limit how Section 3 {of the 14th amendment} can bar an oathbreaking insurrectionist from becoming President.

Although we agree that Colorado cannot enforce Section 3, we protest the majority’s effort to use this case to define the limits of federal enforcement of that provision.

The majority announces that a disqualification for insurrection can occur only when Congress enacts a particular kind of legislation pursuant to Section 5 of the Fourteenth Amendment. In doing so, the majority shuts the door on other potential means of federal enforcement. We cannot join an opinion that decides momentous and difficult issues unnecessarily.

Further, we object to the fact that the decision rules out judicial enforcement of Section 3 and places limitations on how Congress can act.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 04, 2024, 12:38:15 pm
superficialAnalyzerShady says what?

SCOTUS justices Sonia Sotomayor, Elena Kagan, Ketanji Brown Jackson and... Amy Coney Barrett... concurred only on the judgment; specifically that Colorado's decision needed to be reversed, as it would've created a "chaotic state-by-state patchwork at odds with our Nation’s federalism principle." In a separate concurring opinion:
Yes, they all agreed 9-0.  Thank you for making my point.  Anyone that couldn't see this coming is completely blinded by their hatred of Trump

The constitution isn’t the problem, the partisan politicians at state levels are.  See Maine.  You do realize that the Supreme Court is going to strike this nonsense 9-0 right?

Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 04, 2024, 12:42:54 pm
Yes, they all agreed 9-0.  Thank you for making my point.  Anyone that couldn't see this coming is completely blinded by their hatred of Trump

your self-serving most superficial analysis is stunning! That you presume to leverage your context absent superficiality to stroke your boy Trump is... expected!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 04, 2024, 03:03:36 pm
Yes, they all agreed 9-0.  Thank you for making my point.  Anyone that couldn't see this coming is completely blinded by their hatred of Trump

I don't hate Trump.  But he's a danger to the Republic.   I didn't think this was legal.   But they should keep trying to bar him from the election.  He tried everything in the courts to get the election overturned, so it's only fair.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 04, 2024, 03:16:55 pm
I don't hate Trump.  But he's a danger to the Republic.   I didn't think this was legal.   But they should keep trying to bar him from the election.  He tried everything in the courts to get the election overturned, so it's only fair.
So he used the courts as is his right, or anyone else’s right, and that’s a danger?  Anyone that supported this arbitrary removal of Trump from the ballot was either blinded by Trump hatred, or was willing to destroy democracy in order to “save” it.

If you think he committed some kind of insurrection, charge and convict him of it.  I fully support that.  But you can’t arbitrarily take him off the ballot.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 04, 2024, 04:28:35 pm
Btw, my other prediction of the Supreme Court ruling against Trump 9-0 in his immunity case will also happen soon.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 05, 2024, 11:32:10 am
Yes, they all agreed 9-0.  Thank you for making my point.  Anyone that couldn't see this coming is completely blinded by their hatred of Trump

only on the 'Colorado decision' needing to be reversed - given it would have created a "chaotic state-by-state patchwork at odds with the U.S.' federalism principle. However, the other rulings only passed 5-4. Again, specifically: SCOTUS justices Sonia Sotomayor, Elena Kagan, Ketanji Brown Jackson and... Amy Coney Barrett... concurred only on the judgment; specifically that related to Colorado's decision. In a separate concurring opinion:

Quote
Today, the majority goes beyond the necessities of this case to limit how Section 3 {of the 14th amendment} can bar an oathbreaking insurrectionist from becoming President.

Although we agree that Colorado cannot enforce Section 3, we protest the majority’s effort to use this case to define the limits of federal enforcement of that provision.

The majority announces that a disqualification for insurrection can occur only when Congress enacts a particular kind of legislation pursuant to Section 5 of the Fourteenth Amendment. In doing so, the majority shuts the door on other potential means of federal enforcement. We cannot join an opinion that decides momentous and difficult issues unnecessarily.

Further, we object to the fact that the decision rules out judicial enforcement of Section 3 and places limitations on how Congress can act.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 06, 2024, 11:38:19 pm
So he used the courts as is his right, or anyone else’s right, and that’s a danger?

No he's a danger for trying to steal an election that he clearly lost and constantly spreading lies about it and threw his own VP under the bus for obeying the constitution.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 07, 2024, 05:21:54 am
The more I think about this, the more I think that we're in the darkest before the storm part.

Unrestrained neoliberalism, with management of the political sphere to make everything about social progress going too fast...

When you had actual liberalism with advancing social progress and sharing the spoils of technical progress, the world was in a much better place.

It seems like it would just be an obvious thing for us to go back to that.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 10, 2024, 02:27:50 pm
Beating police on camera is peaceful trespassing. It's like they think everyone else is as gullible and stupid as they are.

https://twitter.com/mjfree/status/1766830779932217379?t=RA2JYXp5nnLAKlEfhVDIaw&s=19
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 10, 2024, 07:53:23 pm
No he's a danger for trying to steal an election that he clearly lost and constantly spreading lies about it and threw his own VP under the bus for obeying the constitution.
Speaking of beating police, why do you think a group of illegal immigrants can beat a police office, and be released the next day with no charges?
Regardless, 99% of January 6th riots never touched a police officer.  Police State Bubber at it again.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 10, 2024, 10:15:19 pm
Defund the Police, but don't kill them.  And when you kill them, at least own up to it and don't try to pretend it didn't happen. You don't fool anyone and you just look more craven and pathetic.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 11, 2024, 12:05:09 pm
Defund the Police, but don't kill them.  And when you kill them, at least own up to it and don't try to pretend it didn't happen. You don't fool anyone and you just look more craven and pathetic.
No police were killed on January 6th.  You didn’t answer the question.  Why did January 6th rioters receive jail time for assaulting police officers, as they should.  But the illegals didn’t receive anything?  In fact they were released the next day with no charges.  How do you defend your two tier justice system?  One for your political opponents, and one for everybody else?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 11, 2024, 12:22:11 pm
I don't respond to unsourced "shady facts" because they are always lies. You can't even admit that the riot you tried to help incite resulted in dead and injured people.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 11, 2024, 12:35:04 pm
I don't respond to unsourced "shady facts" because they are always lies. You can't even admit that the riot you tried to help incite resulted in dead and injured people.
It’s ok, I assumed that you wouldn’t have an answer anyways.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 11, 2024, 12:40:38 pm
No police were killed on January 6th.  You didn’t answer the question.  Why did January 6th rioters receive jail time for assaulting police officers, as they should.  But the illegals didn’t receive anything?  In fact they were released the next day with no charges.  How do you defend your two tier justice system?  One for your political opponents, and one for everybody else?

"How come people who committed crimes were charged and those who didn't commit and crimes weren't?"

Quote
A Venezuelan man who became the subject of national attention for allegedly kicking a police officer in Times Square, then flipping off news cameras on his way out of court, was cleared of wrongdoing on Friday after prosecutors concluded he played no role in the attack.

link (https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/times-square-attack-nypd-charges-dropped/5187321/)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 11, 2024, 12:57:09 pm
"How come people who committed crimes were charged and those who didn't commit and crimes weren't?"

link (https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/times-square-attack-nypd-charges-dropped/5187321/)
So the guy who’s on video kicking a police officer played no role?  Ok, which ones were charged?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 11, 2024, 01:14:26 pm
So the guy who’s on video kicking a police officer played no role? Ok, which ones were charged?

It would help us all if you learned how to read the articles, but that would require knowing how to read in the first place.

Quote
It was initially believed that a person seen on video from the Jan. 27 brawl wearing a black and white jacket with pink shoes was Jhoan Boada, according to police. However, the Manhattan DA's office said that person was actually 25-year-old Marce Estee, who has since been arrested and charged with assault on a police officer.

Quote
Five of the eight suspects in the attack have been arrested and were remanded to Rikers Island.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 11, 2024, 02:12:27 pm
Migrant released in Times Square police attack arrested in Queens robbery: NYPD
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/migrant-released-in-times-square-police-attack-now-a-suspect-in-queens-robbery-nypd/5135032/
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 11, 2024, 02:58:13 pm
Migrant released in Times Square police attack arrested in Queens robbery: NYPD
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/migrant-released-in-times-square-police-attack-now-a-suspect-in-queens-robbery-nypd/5135032/

What does this prove?
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 13, 2024, 09:47:02 am
In exchange for Russia's backing in the election (again), Trump is promising to sell out Ukraine. Russia-backed GOP toadies will, no doubt, support this.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 15, 2024, 06:06:03 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GIthH2jWYAAcaYr?format=jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 17, 2024, 07:02:04 am
"It's time for the voters to choose between the Constitution and Donald Trump." - Mike Pence
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 17, 2024, 10:24:24 am
Number of trumpers out there on YouTube saying that except Trump as a king, showing American flags as though the nation was formed to support monarchies.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 17, 2024, 02:39:32 pm
I’ve said it before, if you want to make Donald Trump politically irrelevant, stop implementing sh*tty policies that make people’s live ms worse. 
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 17, 2024, 03:58:05 pm
I’ve said it before, if you want to make Donald Trump politically irrelevant, stop implementing sh*tty policies that make people’s live ms worse.

Prosecuting him and throwing him in jail for trying to steal an election he still won't admit he lost will also work.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 17, 2024, 07:04:39 pm
I’ve said it before, if you want to make Donald Trump politically irrelevant, stop implementing sh*tty policies that make people’s live ms worse.
Danielle Smith clawed back the carbon tax rebate in Alberta. Doug Ford raises Hydro bills by an average of $600 a year. But it's Justin's sh!tty policies that make you want to eradicate democracy and go with a lunatic wannabe dictator.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 21, 2024, 05:32:39 pm
lol (https://apnews.com/article/trump-campaign-fundraising-rnc-c0e8f1e7b59f70c5237e13a3462e5790)

Quote
Donald Trump’s new joint fundraising agreement with the Republican National Committee directs donations to his campaign and a political action committee that pays the former president’s legal bills before the RNC gets a cut, according to a fundraising invitation obtained by The Associated Press.

The unorthodox diversion of funds to the Save America PAC makes it more likely that Republican donors could see their money go to Trump’s lawyers, who have received at least $76 million over the last two years to defend him against four felony indictments and multiple civil cases. Some Republicans are already troubled that Trump’s takeover of the RNC could shortchange the cash-strapped party.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 22, 2024, 09:00:19 pm
The Republican Party are in a death spiral. Trump won't allow them to do literally anything to help the country because that might make Biden look good. The few sane representatives who want no part of this are dropping off, quitting one by one, bringing them closer and closer to losing their slim majority. And today Marjorie Taylor Greene introduced a motion to remove Speaker Mike Johnson, just to show that when they talk of sabotaging the government's ability to function, they mean business.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 25, 2024, 07:18:16 am
finally facing legal accountability, Trump goes on a heater over the potential seizure of his Trump Tower asset! Sumthin, sumthin... "Trump Tower"!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJeGBb9WQAEuDVA?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 25, 2024, 07:21:16 am
Trump's new nickname is gaining traction...  Don Poorleone!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 25, 2024, 09:20:43 am
finally facing legal accountability, Trump goes on a heater over the potential seizure of his Trump Tower asset! Sumthin, sumthin... "Trump Tower"!

(Image of multiple Trump messages snipped for size)
But, but... Trump claimed he had hundreds of millions of dollars in cash! How can he claim he is that rich but can't post the bond! Its almost like... you can't trust what Trump is saying!

From: https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-claims-he-has-nearly-500-million-despite-not-being-able-to-pay-bond-2024-3
Former President Donald Trump has claimed that he has almost $500 million in cash despite saying he can't cover a $454 million judgment in a New York civil fraud case....Trump's claim of how much cash he has contrasts with what his lawyers say. His lawyers said in a March 18 filing that it would be a "a practical impossibility" for him to post the full bond, and that he had faced "insurmountable difficulties" in trying to secure a bond, despite having approached about 30 bond underwriters.

Who would have thought that the man who was found to have lied repeatedly about his financial worth would be saying things that contradict his lawyers!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 25, 2024, 11:41:35 am
Trump's new nickname is gaining traction...  Don Poorleone!
Everyone's poor in the Biden economy.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 26, 2024, 05:52:47 pm
Trump's new nickname is gaining traction...  Don Poorleone!
This aged well, kinda like your Bitcoin stuff! 😂😂😂

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on March 26, 2024, 05:54:26 pm
His bond was slashed from 450 million to 175, because it was again another example of banana republic type retribution that a higher court had to correct.  It’s becoming a theme.
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 26, 2024, 06:11:12 pm
Poor Trumper feels Trump should be allowed to commit whatever crimes he wants. Cultists are weird  😂
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 26, 2024, 07:32:23 pm
Trump's new nickname is gaining traction...  Don Poorleone!
This aged well😂😂😂

oh my! TrumpsterShady is outright gleeful! Meanwhile back in reality:

Quote
Financial experts caution that the company is dramatically overvalued and likely to see its share price drop, meaning it could be one of the worst investments for stockholders.

“It’d be hard to see why a rational investor would want to invest in this company,” Brian Dunn, a lecturer of corporate governance at Cornell University, told McClatchy News.

The actual value of the new company is likely around $2 per share, more than 90% below its current share price, Jay Ritter, a finance professor at the University of Florida, told McClatchy News. “Trump Media is having trouble generating both advertising revenue and paying subscribers,” Ritter said. “As a result of the (recent) merger, it has about $2 in cash per share.”

The company generated less than $5 million in revenue in 2023, and lost money. At its current valuation of close to $10 billion, the price-to-sales ratio is over 2,000.

So, why is its valuation so high given its relatively meager revenue? “Because Truth Social users help the frenzy, in part, so in that sense it is a meme stock,” Tiu said. “My own personal opinion is it has to be a bit of a meme stock,” Dunn said. “It’s clear that the underlying assets don’t justify the price.” Meme stocks are investments that become popular despite having little to no intrinsic value.

whaa! "Meme Stock"!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 27, 2024, 10:24:14 am
"Joe Buden disinformates and misinformates." - Donald Trump
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 27, 2024, 11:06:50 am
always merch funding! Trump now hawking the... Bible, no less!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJoCqy1XQAEp-lt?format=jpg)
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: waldo on March 27, 2024, 11:17:48 am
Trump on RFK Jr. running... announcing his VP running mate (Nicole Shanahan) - Trump says he, 'loves that RFK Jr. is running'!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJr2YrSWkAAejk6?format=jpg)

3rd party candidate takes {most} votes away from... Trump or Biden? Well... CNN was interviewing a 'throng' of people attending the RFK Jr. announcement. Reporter asked for a 'show of hands' as to who they would vote for/favour if RFK Jr. wasn't running - a significant majority were for Trump!
Title: Re: The Donald Trump Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 27, 2024, 03:40:03 pm
always merch funding! Trump now hawking the... Bible, no less!
Unfortunately his supporters are only interested in how it makes them feel self-righteous. If they actually read it, they would see how it says Donald should be stoned to death for his adultery.
Leviticus (20:10-12)