Author Topic: Canadian Islamaphobia or Free Speech?  (Read 204 times)

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Canadian Islamaphobia or Free Speech?
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2017, 08:41:57 pm »
I don't think that's unique to Muslims.

I think that Muslim societies are fairly unique in the way they restrict women's behavior and require modesty in dress and behavior and deference to men. The prohibition on a Muslim woman even socializing with, much less touching men not in their families and what happens to those who violate such rules should give a clue as to what they think of Swedish girls

Plus they basically show up thinking all western women are whores to begin with. These are mostly not very sophisticated men here, and the mythos of western women is fairly strong where they come from.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 08:44:09 pm by SirJohn »

Offline jmt18325

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Re: Canadian Islamaphobia or Free Speech?
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2017, 08:49:43 pm »
Plus they basically show up thinking all western women are whores to begin with.

That's what I'm saying - I don't think that's unique to Muslim men.  Most men think women are whores.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Canadian Islamaphobia or Free Speech?
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2017, 08:54:35 pm »
It is a proclamation to everyone they encounter "I am not one of you. I reject you and your culture and values."

So when those Greeks have their dances in fancy clothes, they are really telling other Canadians to shove it?

You need to think things through, celebrating your own heritage is not about rejecting others.

Offline bcsapper

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Re: Canadian Islamaphobia or Free Speech?
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2017, 10:50:19 pm »
That's what I'm saying - I don't think that's unique to Muslim men.  Most men think women are whores.

Well, not me at least.  You?
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline Omni

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Re: Canadian Islamaphobia or Free Speech?
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2017, 11:38:11 pm »
Well, not me at least.  You?
I don't think women are whores, unless they downright choose to be because they need to make some money. And in that case then most of us are some kind of whores,men or women.

Offline jmt18325

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Re: Canadian Islamaphobia or Free Speech?
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2017, 11:52:26 pm »
Well, not me at least.  You?

That was the wrong thing for me to say.  A lot of men think of women as sex objects.  Sexual assault is apparently more common than we all think in wider society.

Offline dia

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Re: Canadian Islamaphobia or Free Speech?
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2017, 09:03:07 am »
Sexual assault is apparently more common than we all think in wider society.
It is.   Given how many we hear about on the news, I wonder how many more we don't hear about either because the media doesn't report them, or the women don't.   I hear almost weekly warnings about some man who's grabbing women on the street, or men in vehicles approaching kids.   I suspect when the perpetrator is known, it doesn't make the news at all.  So many people terrified of Muslims, yet it's the regular Canadian guy who is most dangerous to themselves or their female relatives and friends. 
“Neither a man nor a crowd nor a nation can be trusted to act humanely or to think sanely under the influence of a great fear.”
Bertrand Russell, Unpopular Essays

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Canadian Islamaphobia or Free Speech?
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2017, 02:40:07 pm »
That's what I'm saying - I don't think that's unique to Muslim men.  Most men think women are whores.

Who you hanging around with, John?  :o

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Canadian Islamaphobia or Free Speech?
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2017, 02:41:01 pm »
So when those Greeks have their dances in fancy clothes, they are really telling other Canadians to shove it?

You need to think things through, celebrating your own heritage is not about rejecting others.

Do the Greeks dress up in Greek costumes every day to go to work, school and the grocery store? The comparison is not valid.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Canadian Islamaphobia or Free Speech?
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2017, 02:47:28 pm »
That was the wrong thing for me to say.  A lot of men think of women as sex objects.  Sexual assault is apparently more common than we all think in wider society.

Not nearly the same thing. Both our culture and Muslim culture sees women as sex objects. Our culture celebrates that (more than it should) while their culture sees it as a danger, and does its best to suppress it by swaddling them in shapeless clothes, and ensuring they are always under the direct control of their male family members.

So while a young Canadian man might see some hot teen girls in bikinis and lech at them his thoughts are not filled with the sense of contempt you'll find from a guy from North Africa. He won't assume that they're available to any man who wants them, and won't be angered and outraged that they would dare to refuse.

A whore is not the right description probably. We might call a girl a whore (she might even be one by our terms) but that does not carry with it the same sense of religious violation as in the Muslim world. We wouldn't think it is open season on her for anything we choose to do.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Canadian Islamaphobia or Free Speech?
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2017, 02:51:10 pm »
It is.   Given how many we hear about on the news, I wonder how many more we don't hear about either because the media doesn't report them, or the women don't.   I hear almost weekly warnings about some man who's grabbing women on the street, or men in vehicles approaching kids.   I suspect when the perpetrator is known, it doesn't make the news at all.  So many people terrified of Muslims, yet it's the regular Canadian guy who is most dangerous to themselves or their female relatives and friends.

We have a fairly good idea of how many sexual assaults there are in the West because of all the agencies involved in combating it and the number of polls and surveys which take place. We have no idea from the Muslim world because there are few, if any agencies combating it, and the laws and police are such that sexual assaults or even rapes are very unlikely to ever be reported.

We also don't break down sexual assault convictions by race. If we did we might well find, as in some European countries, like Sweden, that the numbers among immigrants from North Africa and the Middle east were many times higher than among "regular Canadian guys".

Offline jmt18325

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Re: Canadian Islamaphobia or Free Speech?
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2017, 03:12:19 pm »
Who you hanging around with, John?  :o

You should meet my family....

Offline jmt18325

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Re: Canadian Islamaphobia or Free Speech?
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2017, 03:13:19 pm »
A whore is not the right description probably. We might call a girl a whore (she might even be one by our terms) but that does not carry with it the same sense of religious violation as in the Muslim world. We wouldn't think it is open season on her for anything we choose to do.


You're right - to an extent.  Where you're wrong is when it comes to statistics around sexual assault.  It's pretty rampant in any society where there are men.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Canadian Islamaphobia or Free Speech?
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2017, 03:24:57 pm »
I don't think SirJohn has ever met a Muslim person in his life, yet talks about them as if he's some kind of authority on what they believe and what their religion means to them. It's bizarre. Especially this talk of women, when it's well documented that many of them choose to continue to wear the hijab or even begin wearing it when they're in Canada as an expression of their personal religious devotion. They actually do this in some cases because our national value of multiculturalism and pluralism makes them feel safe to do so. Many of them do this in spite of their fathers and brothers sometimes wishing that they wouldn't because they worry that it would be a negative reflection on them.

Seriously, you need to stop reading white nationalist propaganda and actually get out of the house and meet the people you've learned to hate.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Canadian Islamaphobia or Free Speech?
« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2017, 07:35:20 pm »
I don't think SirJohn has ever met a Muslim person in his life, yet talks about them as if he's some kind of authority on what they believe and what their religion means to them.

No he talks about what is basic, common knowledge about their societies and cultures and beliefs. I've already said my next door neighbour is a Muslim. I used to work with Muslim all the time when I was poor. At one point the city of Ottawa reached and agreement with Minto to house refugees in my building, mostly Somalis, so I used to live among them too. In fact, my riding there had the highest percentage of Muslims in Canada, and might still have for all I know.

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It's bizarre. Especially this talk of women, when it's well documented that many of them choose to continue to wear the hijab or even begin wearing it when they're in Canada as an expression of their personal religious devotion.

Funny. Wasn't that what I said when Impact said it's probably just cultural? It's bizarre you didn't read that.

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They actually do this in some cases because our national value of multiculturalism and pluralism makes them feel safe to do so

As opposed to Iran and Iraq and Egypt and other Muslim countries where they don't feel safe to do so? It's bizarre you would think so.

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Seriously, you need to stop reading white nationalist propaganda and actually get out of the house and meet the people you've learned to hate.

Sorry, but I've never read any white nationalist propaganda.  You need to crawl out from that carefully guarded safe space where you keep your mind and look around you some time. You might find that, shockinglly, I'm not aberrant in my beliefs, or the slightest bit unusual, you are. My views don't reflect 'white nationalists' but Canadians in general. Turn off the CBC and go look around. Seventy percent of Canadians liked Kellie Lietch's values test idea. Do you think they were all white nationalists or reading white nationalist web sites?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 07:38:50 pm by SirJohn »