Author Topic: Canada to Increase Defence Spending  (Read 186 times)

Offline jmt18325

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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2017, 05:59:00 pm »
How much?  Well, Sajjan won't say:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-to-spend-more-on-defence-sajjan-says-but-non-committal-on-nato-1.3288626

They have to figure out how to play with the books to make it seem like they're increasing spending while actually making cuts.
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Offline jmt18325

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2017, 06:40:19 pm »
They have to figure out how to play with the books to make it seem like they're increasing spending while actually making cuts.

They'll pretty much have to increase spending.  I don't think the rest of NATO is going to give them the choice.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2017, 12:17:06 am »
Given the increased saber-rattling with respect to Russia, I expect that NATO will be calling for members to step up to the plate. I don't object.

I do hope the focus is on spending that enhances Canada's capabilities at the things we need to be good at.  Transport and logistics should be a major consideration, because it has applications beyond just fighting wars.  I felt distressed and embarrassed during the Indonesia tsunami crisis when Canada had to rent a Russian transport to get our emergency response equipment and personnel to the site because our own aircraft weren't suitable for the task.  The purchase of C-17 transports during the Harper years should go a long way towards addressing that deficiency., but it illustrates my complaint: we need to have capabilities in things like disaster response, humanitarian aid, maritime patrol, arctic patrol, search-and-rescue, and things of that nature. We have to have equipment that meets those tasks.  The C-17s are a good start. The long-awaited Sea-King replacement is a start.

As far as stuff that translates directly to shooting wars, I think that increasing pay and training and benefits for our armed forces personnel might be a good idea. In terms of equipment and technology, it would of course be nice if as much of that money as possible could be spent in Canada. Small arms manufactured in Canada by Diemaco, for example.  Some stuff-- ie, jet fighters and helicopters-- it's just not realistic to design and build in Canada. But there's a lot of stuff-- ships, transport aircraft, communications technology, unmanned aircraft, sensor equipment, communications equipment, etc etc etc, that should be well within our technological grasp.


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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2017, 06:11:57 am »
I'm not comfortable with the arms race that's developing. The reason the world has been so peaceful for two generations is that there's been deep economic integration and international co-operation and co-dependency. I said it in a previous thread, this race to increase military spending is going to make countries more likely to go to war to justify the spending. When your tool in life is a hammer, all you see are nails.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2017, 11:15:31 am »
  he C-17s are a good start. The long-awaited Sea-King replacement is a start.

As far as stuff that translates directly to shooting wars, I think that increasing pay and training and benefits for our armed forces personnel might be a good idea. In terms of equipment and technology, it would of course be nice if as much of that money as possible could be spent in Canada. Small arms manufactured in Canada by Diemaco, for example.
 -k

The armed forces are already extremely well-paid and have terrific benefits. I don't think they need more. Generally the lowest regular rank is corporal and their standard pay is about $60k per year plus extra for specialties plus increments. It seems to me what the military needs most of these days is transportation. We got the C-17s because Harper went around the normal procurement process and just bought them. If he'd used the procurement process we'd still be waiting. The military needs all kinds of vehicles, from trucks to armored vehicles. We need more helicopters, including some armed helicopters, and more surveillance aircraft. We also need fast, coastal patrol craft, which we have never had.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2017, 11:17:10 am »
I'm not comfortable with the arms race that's developing. The reason the world has been so peaceful for two generations is that there's been deep economic integration and international co-operation and co-dependency. I

The reason there has been peace is because of a standoff between the power of the democratic block and the power of the non-democratic block, ie, Russia, China, etc. But the democratic block have largely let their militaries fall apart and rust out. That is what is allowing bullyboy Putin to push his luck.

Online wilber

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2017, 11:44:54 am »
I agree with Cybercoma that the more integrated countries are the less likely they are to fight each other. I don't agree that having a capable military means you are more likely to go to war. Quite the opposite. An imbalance in strength is what tempts countries to go to war. The world was never more ready to go to war than during the Cold War, yet it didn't because both sides were too strong for either to profit from a major war.

Russia doesn't have the ability to project a great deal of its power across the Arctic Ocean and neither does the US for that matter. Canada doesn't need the ability to defeat Russia or anyone else in an all out war, it needs to be strong enough to make invading us more trouble than it is worth.

Proxy wars and regional conflicts will be with us for the foreseeable future.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2017, 12:22:59 pm »
The world was never more ready to go to war than during the Cold War, yet it didn't because both sides were too strong for either to profit from a major war.

What about Korea and Vietnam. Yes they had internal conflicts, but were they not greatly magnified by the superpowers? Certainly the Korean war has led to long term destabilization in the region. The whole middle east situation was not helped, but magnified greatly by the cold war.

Offline Blueblood

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2017, 01:33:01 pm »
What about Korea and Vietnam. Yes they had internal conflicts, but were they not greatly magnified by the superpowers? Certainly the Korean war has led to long term destabilization in the region. The whole middle east situation was not helped, but magnified greatly by the cold war.

You have to look at it over long periods of time and where the countries are located.  USA is the strongest country in the Western Hemisphere yet it hasn't cleaned out Latin America when it quite easily could do so which is a testament to economies being intertwined and trading with each other.  Also with the USA being as strong as it is and enjoying as much battlefield success as it has in open combat, there isn't incentive for countries from Eurasia to attempt to invade us on top of a trading economy.  The Americas are far more stable than Europe, Asia, Africa and the Middle East.

Defence spending is wise as it is the stick in the carrot and stick method of getting world peace with the carrot being trading amongst countries. 

With trading by countries with each other increasing over time allowing an increased standard of living and at the same time increasing money spent on defence, it shows that war for the most part is an exercise in madness and futility.  The countries at war with each other now have very little power and not involved in much trading.

People can point to the USA, but when it formally declares war, it is a steam roller.  The there's Isis which we are seeing in real time is an exercise in futility.

Online wilber

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2017, 02:13:47 pm »
What about Korea and Vietnam. Yes they had internal conflicts, but were they not greatly magnified by the superpowers? Certainly the Korean war has led to long term destabilization in the region. The whole middle east situation was not helped, but magnified greatly by the cold war.

The superpowers were also the reason the Korean and Vietnam conflicts didn't expand outside their regions. Russia's current aggressive stance in the Middle East and its former Eastern European republics isn't because of Russian strength, it's because Russia now sees NATO as weak. They see a lack of commitment to its members security and are taking advantage of it.

Offline the_squid

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2017, 05:50:57 pm »
Harper committed us to it and did nothing.   We'll commit again and kick the can down the road until Trump is gone.

We shouldn't spend anything more on NATO until America solves its Russia/Trump problem.
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Online wilber

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2017, 06:28:38 pm »
You think Russia is just Trump's or America's problem?

We are spending it on Canada. NATO is just an alliance and without an alliance, you are on your own when it comes to defence.

Offline dia

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2017, 07:27:30 pm »

Proxy wars and regional conflicts will be with us for the foreseeable future.

And terrorists from the 'proxy war' regions, I bet.
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Online wilber

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2017, 08:41:04 pm »
And terrorists from the 'proxy war' regions, I bet.

Some of them I would imagine.