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Author Topic: Conservatives remove senator from caucus  (Read 444 times)

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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Conservatives remove senator from caucus
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2018, 06:36:47 pm »
Quote from: MH on January 09, 2018, 06:17:40 pm
The politickers.

So who needs to change? The media or the politicians? I vote for the politicians. Though it has to start at the top, obviously. Party leaders have to, the next time someone is agog at an MP/MPP saying something they find outrageous say "Yeah, well, that's life, eh? Some people disagree with you about stuff. Whatarya gonna do?" Harper never had that courage. Clearly Scheer doesn't either. I won't even mention Trudeau.  ::)

There was a column today in the Star about (apparently) a bunch of people outraged that Ben Harper tweeted something snotty about the minimum wage hike in Ontario. It was basically saying "Why are we making this a thing? Some college kid says something? So the **** what?" It's like the 24hr news cycle has become a race to find something 'outrageous' so you can talk in earnest disapproving tones about it. The media establishes a narrative, and it becomes sacrilegious to not abide by it.

Cuz like, the media never simplifies stuff, dumbs it down, or ignores context...

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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Conservatives remove senator from caucus
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2018, 06:40:22 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on January 09, 2018, 06:36:47 pm
So who needs to change? The media or the politicians? I vote for the politicians. Though it has to start at the top, obviously. Party leaders have to, the next time someone is agog at an MP/MPP saying something they find outrageous say "Yeah, well, that's life, eh? Some people disagree with you about stuff. Whatarya gonna do?" Harper never had that courage. Clearly Scheer doesn't either. I won't even mention Trudeau.  ::)

They already started changing.  Who got in more trouble with the people - Clinton or Trump ?

Quote
It's like the 24hr news cycle has become a race to find something 'outrageous' so you can talk in earnest disapproving tones about it. The media establishes a narrative, and it becomes sacrilegious to not abide by it.

Cuz like, the media never simplifies stuff, dumbs it down, or ignores context...

Yeah, well here's the thing... people will get sick of it and then it won't be covered.  You and I are the breaking wave of that.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Conservatives remove senator from caucus
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2018, 06:50:41 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on January 09, 2018, 06:36:47 pm
So who needs to change? The media or the politicians? I vote for the politicians. Though it has to start at the top, obviously. Party leaders have to, the next time someone is agog at an MP/MPP saying something they find outrageous say "Yeah, well, that's life, eh? Some people disagree with you about stuff. Whatarya gonna do?" Harper never had that courage. Clearly Scheer doesn't either. I won't even mention Trudeau.  ::)

Thing is, the media will rake you over the coals for saying politically incorrect things, but politicians have the choice to either fold and submit or defend themselves.  The voting public is more moderate/conservative than most of the mainstream media, so if a politician can defend themselves properly I think they'll be okay if they can deal with the media machine.  Ie: when Leitch mentioned a possible "Canadians values test" the leftwing media went bonkers and raked her over the coals for it, even though the polls said most Canadians agreed with the idea.  Same thing with Syrian refugees, where most Canadians were in favour of bringing in much less of them than the 40k+ Trudeau brought in.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Conservatives remove senator from caucus
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2018, 09:09:24 pm »
Quote from: Moonlight Graham on January 09, 2018, 06:50:41 pm
Thing is, the media will rake you over the coals for saying politically incorrect things, but politicians have the choice to either fold and submit or defend themselves.  The voting public is more moderate/conservative than most of the mainstream media, so if a politician can defend themselves properly I think they'll be okay if they can deal with the media machine.  Ie: when Leitch mentioned a possible "Canadians values test" the leftwing media went bonkers and raked her over the coals for it, even though the polls said most Canadians agreed with the idea.  Same thing with Syrian refugees, where most Canadians were in favour of bringing in much less of them than the 40k+ Trudeau brought in.

A poll at the time, I think from the Toronto Star, showed 89% of Conservatives agreed with Leitch. But the actual politicians on top couldn't distance themselves fast enough. And they certainly didn't have the balls to disagree about bringing Syrians over, especially after the pictures of that dead boy.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Conservatives remove senator from caucus
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2018, 09:19:29 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on January 09, 2018, 09:09:24 pm
A poll at the time, I think from the Toronto Star, showed 89% of Conservatives agreed with Leitch. But the actual politicians on top couldn't distance themselves fast enough. And they certainly didn't have the balls to disagree about bringing Syrians over, especially after the pictures of that dead boy.

Actually there were a fair number of non conservatives that thought initially that lietch's idea might be acceptable, but then when she was tasked with presenting ideas as to how the questioning might proceed, most people realized how blatantly easy it would be to subvert it and so  on second thought the whole idea, as well as her attempt to replace Harper ended up in the dung heap of history.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Conservatives remove senator from caucus
« Reply #50 on: January 10, 2018, 02:35:49 pm »
Quote from: Omni on January 09, 2018, 09:19:29 pm
Actually there were a fair number of non conservatives that thought initially that lietch's idea might be acceptable, but then when she was tasked with presenting ideas as to how the questioning might proceed, most people realized how blatantly easy it would be to subvert it and so  on second thought the whole idea, as well as her attempt to replace Harper ended up in the dung heap of history.

You persist in the commonly held progressive view that most of the immigrants or would-be immigrants seeking entry to Canada are sophisticated, knowledgeable people who would fully understand the underlying psychological traps of a carefully placed series of leading questions and easily dodge them.

Given most of our immigrants are barely literate in English, and come from third world backwater countries where the social views we seek to weed out would be considered absolutely normal, I find it unlikely. Simply barring any family where the woman routinely wears head coverings in a society where that is not required, would be a nice initial step as it would indicate their religious beliefs are more conservative than that of their countrymen.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Conservatives remove senator from caucus
« Reply #51 on: January 10, 2018, 02:59:26 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on January 10, 2018, 02:35:49 pm
You persist in the commonly held progressive view that most of the immigrants or would-be immigrants seeking entry to Canada are sophisticated, knowledgeable people who would fully understand the underlying psychological traps of a carefully placed series of leading questions and easily dodge them.

Given most of our immigrants are barely literate in English, and come from third world backwater countries where the social views we seek to weed out would be considered absolutely normal, I find it unlikely. Simply barring any family where the woman routinely wears head coverings in a society where that is not required, would be a nice initial step as it would indicate their religious beliefs are more conservative than that of their countrymen.

You wouldn't have to be terribly sophisticated to trump Lietch's "skill testing question" game and I think most people realized that. That and that it was identified as a thinly veiled attempt to target Muslim's it was dismissed, as was she.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Conservatives remove senator from caucus
« Reply #52 on: January 10, 2018, 03:05:50 pm »
Quote from: Omni on January 10, 2018, 02:59:26 pm
You wouldn't have to be terribly sophisticated to trump Lietch's "skill testing question" game and I think most people realized that. That and that it was identified as a thinly veiled attempt to target Muslim's it was dismissed, as was she.

Leitch was hardly a professional of the sort who put together these types of tests for big business every day.
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"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
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