Poll

Is "Get out of my country" = to "Allahu akbar?"

Yes.
1 (14.3%)
Both are associated with terrorism but are not equivalent.
2 (28.6%)
No.
4 (57.1%)
Other. Please explain....
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 6

Author Topic: Is "Get out of my country" = to "Allahu akbar?"  (Read 234 times)

Offline SirJohn

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That is such BS, but then you probably weren't there as I was.

Riiiight. Do you even know which side of a gun shoots the little lead thing?
Quote
And if the US conquered Iraq and Afghanistan, why then are they both still in so much turmoil, and what do you suppose begat ISIS?

They won the wars and lost the peace. In both places they wound up with a corrupt, incompetent local administration, and in neither were there sufficient security forces, in part due to their own incompetence in firing all the Iraqi cops and disbanding the military. Even the UN says most civilian deaths were due to 'insurgents'.

Offline Omni

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Riiiight. Do you even know which side of a gun shoots the little lead thing?
They won the wars and lost the peace. In both places they wound up with a corrupt, incompetent local administration, and in neither were there sufficient security forces, in part due to their own incompetence in firing all the Iraqi cops and disbanding the military. Even the UN says most civilian deaths were due to 'insurgents'.
"Won the wars"? surely you jest. They won nothing as both countries are in worse shape than they were prior to the invasions. In Iraq's case, (what was the reason for that one anyway)? they put in place a puppet government that was Shia and they in turn fired all Saddam's people who actually kept the lights on etc., in the country, because they were Sunni. A lot of them didn't like being kicked out of work, especially when they were much more confident that their replacements, and ended up having access to a lot of military hardware the US left behind. Voila, ISIS.
And perhaps you meant to say which END of the gun shoots the little lead thing. Blackwater is very good at explaining such things I'll fill you in some time if you like.

Offline SirJohn

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"Won the wars"? surely you jest. They won nothing as both countries are in worse shape than they were prior to the invasions. In Iraq's case, (what was the reason for that one anyway)? they put in place a puppet government that was Shia and they in turn fired all Saddam's people who actually kept the lights on etc

Were you in favour of the apartheid like government before that, where the minority Suunis controlled everything and the majority Shia had no power?

I'll grant you the US screwed things up. They had this childishly na´ve attitude about bringing in democratic rule. Democratic rule in the middle east doesn't work. Democracy requires compromise and Arabs don't do compromise very well, especially with those who have a different set of religious beliefs. So the government that got elected immediately started screwing over everyone else while raking in the cash for everything they possibly could, and appointing buddies with no military or police experience to high positions in the police and military.

How did ISIS take over so much of Iraq? Simple. The Iraq military, which was much bigger and better equipped, refused to fight. They broke and ran from far, far smaller groups, leaving behind all their equipment. If I recall right they lost Mosul when something like 10,000 Iraqi soldiers equipped with tanks, artillery and armored cars fled from a couple of hundred guys in jeeps and pickup trucks, leaving everything but their soiled underwear behind.

To a certain extent, they had the same problem in Afghanistan, stuck with a local president and his cronies who had little interest in ruling beyond self-enrichment. They should have found a suitable strongman for these jobs, put him in place, and let him clamp down on those who disagreed as he chose. There would have been far less blood in the end.



Offline Omni

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Were you in favour of the apartheid like government before that, where the minority Suunis controlled everything and the majority Shia had no power?

Allowing that system to be totally reversed was one of the dumbest things the US could have done there, ( of course beyond the actual invasion)especially since the Shia had no experience at that level. As to having a strong man in power to control things, they had one, but as Tommy Franks pointed out during an interview in congress after his deployment there, "we had such a man but we pulled his head off". They might have been better to control Saddam as opposed to killing him immediately. Prior to the invasion Baghdad was a peaceful place to walk around and explore, day or night, and you could get a glass of wine with dinner. Granted if you were a local and said bad things about Saddam he might have you thrown through a leaf chipper, but the trains ran on time. Afghanistan is a totally different animal. They don't want anything like a central government, I suggest at least in part due to strong tribal sentiments and an extreme lack of education. Oh well, the US did do a lot of road repairs so I guess one outcome of the war will be an enhanced poppy trade.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 10:41:26 pm by jmt18325 »
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Offline Omni

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Were you in favour of the apartheid like government before that, where the minority Suunis controlled everything and the majority Shia had no power?

Competently allowing that situation to be reversed was one of the dumbest things the US stood back and allowed to happen, especially when the Shia had no experience at that level.   
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 10:40:33 pm by jmt18325 »