« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3]

Author Topic: Comey & Trump - NEVER believe anything a government official says without evidence  (Read 1247 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline segnosaur

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1558
Re: Comey & Trump - NEVER believe anything a government official says without evidence
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2017, 10:11:46 am »
Quote from: Moonlight Graham on June 23, 2017, 08:20:43 pm
What about the alleged colluding with the Putin gov to undermine Hillary during the election cycle?
At this point, we don't have any evidence that there was any direct collusion with Trump himself (along the lines of Trump saying "Hey Putin, bro... do me a solid and help smear Hillary, and I'll make it worth your while"), and only circumstantial evidence that members of Trump's inner circle and the Russian government. But the thing is, most people who are critical of Trump aren't saying "We know for sure Trump directly colluded", they are saying "He obstructed investigations", for which there is plenty of evidence.
Logged

Offline cybercoma

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2956
Re: Comey & Trump - NEVER believe anything a government official says without evidence
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2017, 11:40:50 am »
Quote from: BC_cheque on June 26, 2017, 04:38:53 pm
I know.  My point wasn't so much that the two are the same, I was just refuting MG's claim that people have made up their minds because they hate Trump.

I didn't hate OJ when I reached the conclusion that the justice system failed.  I reached my conclusion based on the mountain of evidence in spite of the fact that it wasn't enough.

Likewise, there is a mountain of evidence against Trump, but before they try and impeach a president for treason within a Republican controlled legislative branch, they need to be certain the evidence is air tight.

And believing that mountain of evidence even though no charges have been laid has nothing to do with my feelings for Trump. 

It has to do with the evidence so far.
I was just elaborating on your point.
Logged
Useful Useful x 1 View List

Offline Queefer Sutherland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10257
Re: Comey & Trump - NEVER believe anything a government official says without evidence
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2019, 06:32:35 pm »
Quote from: Poonlight Graham on June 22, 2017, 08:32:15 pm
There's obviously some kind of relationship between Trump & his admin and the Putin gov.  There's pieces scattered all over the place to point to something that needs to be investigated.  It doesn't look good for Trump.  But some of the more serious allegations are still allegations.  I think most people are just waiting to see it all come out from the investigations.  Others, however, hate the man so much they believe all of the the allegations already.  You can laugh at my thread, but there's a reason they're still investigating & not laying charges...yet.

Poonlight vindicated 2 years later!  Poonlight one of the only non-Republican supporter, non-Neo-Nazi, non-FOX News loudmouths that waited for the evidence before convicting the man.  Once again Poonlight shows us the way...

 ;)
Logged
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley
Optimistic Optimistic x 1 View List

Offline Queefer Sutherland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10257
Re: Comey & Trump - NEVER believe anything a government official says without evidence
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2019, 06:38:45 pm »
Quote from: Poonlight Graham on June 14, 2017, 07:11:43 pm
My main point is:  do not believe anything on face.  WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE?

Read my OP, it still applies almost 2 years later.  Have we learned nothing over the last century?  Believe nothing government tells you, without proof.   

This also applies to Barr's report of Mueller's investigation.  Let's not believe his word.  The American people and their elected representatives deserve to see the evidence before exonerating Trump of Russian collusion.  They should see as much of Mueller's report as is legally possible.

Trump guilty of collusion?  WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE?  Trump not guilty?  WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE?  Now about those Iraq WMD's...
Logged
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline eyeball

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1140
Re: Comey & Trump - NEVER believe anything a government official says without evidence
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2019, 08:15:21 pm »
Quote from: Poonlight Graham on June 14, 2017, 07:11:43 pm
....Government can't be trusted...

...do not believe anything on face.  WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE?

Where's the means to collect evidence in the first place?  Where are the cameras, microphones, GPS chips. Where are the tapes?  What is there to audit and validate? Where are the human observers and process guardians?  Where is the legislation that outlaws in-camera lobbying?

I've been asking these sorts of questions for decades now.  I've pretty much lost faith in the willingness and capacity of the public to demand better.  I'm pretty sure a critical mass of people even approve of corruption and believe that taking action against it will only wreck the economy.

Good article in this weekends Globe and Mail on bribery and corruption https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-give-and-take-whats-so-bad-about-bribery/

Best quote
Quote
Regulatory capture, whereby sectors overwhelm the force of government oversight, is a regular feature of all money-talks democratic systems. It is not in itself illegal, nor is it obviously bribery; but it creates pathologies in the system."
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 08:20:42 pm by eyeball »
Logged

Offline Queefer Sutherland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10257
Re: Comey & Trump - NEVER believe anything a government official says without evidence
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2019, 10:05:18 pm »
Quote from: eyeball on March 24, 2019, 08:15:21 pm
Where's the means to collect evidence in the first place?  Where are the cameras, microphones, GPS chips. Where are the tapes?  What is there to audit and validate? Where are the human observers and process guardians?  Where is the legislation that outlaws in-camera lobbying?

I think the key is transparency in government.  So that the Fourth Estate (an independent news media) can look at as much evidence as can be made available and report it to us.  In a healthy democracy, opposition parties will also find any chance to make the other party look bad, so will report wrongdoing, unless it benefits them too, which it often does.

Quote
I've been asking these sorts of questions for decades now.  I've pretty much lost faith in the willingness and capacity of the public to demand better.  I'm pretty sure a critical mass of people even approve of corruption and believe that taking action against it will only wreck the economy.

I agree with the former, disagree with the latter.

Quote
Good article in this weekends Globe and Mail on bribery and corruption https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-give-and-take-whats-so-bad-about-bribery/

I'll try to check that out when i have time.
Logged
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley
Pages: 1 2 [3]
« previous next »